From max at alcyone.com  Mon Oct 17 16:13:50 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:13:50 -0700
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2153.1129538807.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2153.1129538807.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sLadnaaSC91imMneRVn-qQ@speakeasy.net>

David Pratt wrote:

> I am working with a text format that advises to strip any ascii control 
> characters (0 - 30) as part of parsing data and also the ascii pipe 
> character (124) from the data. I think many of these characters are 
> from a different time. Since I have never seen most of these characters 
> in text I am not sure how these first 30 control characters are all 
> represented (other than say tab (\t), newline(\n), line return(\r) ) so 
> what should I do to remove these characters if they are ever 
> encountered. Many thanks.

Use ''.translate.  Pass in the identity mapping for the first argument, 
and for the second parameter, specify the list of all the characters you 
wish to delete.  This would probably be something like:

	IDENTITY_MAP = ''.join([chr(x) for x in range(256)])
	BAD_MAP = ''.join([chr(x) for x in range(32) + [124])

	aNewString = aString.translate(IDENTITY_MAP, BAD_MAP)

Note that ASCII 31 is also a control character (US).

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   The believer is happy; the doubter is wise.
   -- (an Hungarian proverb)


From gregm at taming-tech.com  Fri Oct  7 13:35:22 2005
From: gregm at taming-tech.com (GregM)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 10:35:22 -0700
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
Message-ID: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I've looked at a lot of pages on the net and still can't seem to nail
this. Would someone more knowledgeable in regular expressions please
provide some help to point out what I'm doing wrong?

I am trying to see if a web page contains the exact text:
You have found 0 matches

But instead I seem to be matching all sorts of expected line like
You have found <a number up to 5 digits long with comma> matches
for example:
You have found 34 matches
You have found 189 matches
You have found 16,734 matches
You have found 1,706 matches
You have found 300 matches

The last 2 I thought I had eliminated but sadly it seems not the
examples above actually seem to match my expression below. :(

Here is what I'm doing:
zeromatch = []
SecondarySearchTerm = 'You found (0){1} matches'
primarySearchTerm = 'Looking for Something'
primarySearchTerm2 = 'has been an error connecting'

# pagetext is all the body text on a web page.
# I'm using COM to drive MSIE and pagetext =  doc.body.outerText

if (re.search(primarySearchTerm, pagetext)  or
re.search(primarySearchTerm2, pagetext)):
   failedlinks.append(link)
elif (re.search(SecondarySearchTerm, pagetext)):
   zeromatch.append(link)

I've tried other RE's be had even more spectacular failures any help
would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance,
Greg Moore
Software Test
Shop.com



From mark.delon at gmx.at  Wed Oct 19 17:33:05 2005
From: mark.delon at gmx.at (Mark Delon)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:33:05 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: connect to https unpossible. Please help.
Message-ID: <17677.1129757585@www43.gmx.net>

Hi,

i want to log via python script to https page:

'https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/'
#
But it does not work.

I am using following code(see below)

Has somebody any ideas?
How can I get to this https page?
Need I to know some infos from "provider"(certificates, etc)?
Thank u very much !

sincerely mark

Code:
======
import urllib2

theurl='https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/'
#
username = 'username'
password = 'password'
passman = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
passman.add_password(None, theurl, username, password)
authhandler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(passman)
opener = urllib2.build_opener(authhandler)
urllib2.install_opener(opener)
t = urllib2.urlopen('https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/')
#
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Program Files\python233\lib\urllib2.py", line 129, in urlopen
    return _opener.open(url, data)
  File "C:\Program Files\python233\lib\urllib2.py", line 326, in open
    '_open', req)
  File "C:\Program Files\python233\lib\urllib2.py", line 306, in _call_chain
    result = func(*args)
  File "C:\Program Files\python233\lib\urllib2.py", line 908, in https_open
    return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPS, req)
  File "C:\Program Files\python233\lib\urllib2.py", line 886, in do_open
    raise URLError(err)
urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error (10060, 'Operation timed out')>


-- 
Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX superg?nstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat,
DSL-Flatrate f?r nur 4,99 Euro/Monat*  http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 14:48:13 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:48:13 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pjv133-pjn.ln1@mail.binaryfoundry.ca>
Message-ID: <djlule$gkd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John-Paul Stewart" <jpstewart at binaryfoundry.ca> wrote in message 
news:pjv133-pjn.ln1 at mail.binaryfoundry.ca...

> David Schwartz wrote:

>> If nobody wants these operating systems, then it doesn't hurt him not to 
>> be able to sell them. If people want them, then he could have shown 
>> Microsoft the door.
>
> If only 5% want another operating system, the vendor has to choose between 
> selling to those 5% -or- to the 95% who want Microsoft.  Had it not been 
> for the underhanded tactics, he could have sold to *both* groups.
>
> From a purely economic standpoint, the sensible thing is to accept that 
> 95% and let the 5% go elsewhere.
>
> But if *every* vendor has to make that same choice, there is no place for 
> that other 5% to go to buy another operating system.  So the other 
> operating system(s) die off.  And those 5% become customers of Microsoft 
> since there's no other choice left.  And *that* is where the legal 
> problems start:  they gained market share by preventing consumers from 
> finding competing products.

    Right, except that's utterly absurd. If every vendor takes their tiny 
cut of the 95%, a huge cut of the 5% is starting to look *REALLY* good.

    DS




From http  Wed Oct  5 04:04:59 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 01:04:59 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.11645	3@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<434084	3b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99 f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E4	5EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xn	s96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1386.1128357078.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhvvn0$dem$1@wake.carmen.se>
Message-ID: <7xu0fw75jo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Magnus Lycka <lycka at carmen.se> writes:
> It seems you've missed the entire point of using a dynamically
> typed language. It's not just about saving typing time and making
> your methods take up fewer lines of code. It's about writing generic
> code. Just look at C++ with all that mess with complex templates,
> silly casting and dangerous void pointers etc that are needed to
> achieve a fraction of the genericity that Python provides with no
> effort from the programmer.

So where are the complex templates and dangerous void pointers in ML?


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:21:33 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:21:33 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.21.31.542964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:44:12 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:38:49 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :
> 
>>Yes it is. HTML means that after I've specified my email client use my
>>favourite font, in the size I like, people send me emails that over-ride
>>my choice. Invariably they use a font I don't even have. 
> 
> I would suggest then a better solution is to implement CSS in email,
> the way you do in browsers to deal with that same problem.

Are you volunteering? Good. Let me know when your done, I'd love to see it.

In the meantime, I'll continue viewing emails in plain text, and if they
contain HTML I'll choose for myself whether to render it, or trash it, or
manually read through the code looking for content.


-- 
Steven.



From tadmc at augustmail.com  Tue Oct  4 23:16:26 2005
From: tadmc at augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:16:26 -0500
Subject: check html file size
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndk6hca.pag.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>

Xah Lee <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:

> would anyone like to translate the following perl script to Python or
> Scheme (scsh)?


Yes, I would.


-- 
    Tad McClellan                          SGML consulting
    tadmc at augustmail.com                   Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas


From cowie.rob at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 21:33:24 2005
From: cowie.rob at gmail.com (Rob Cowie)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 18:33:24 -0700
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128735204.407666.193440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

A string can be thought of as a tuple of characters. Tuples support
membership testing thus...

choice1 = raw_input("> ")

if '1' or 's' or 'S' in choice1:
  #do something
elif '2' or 'e' or E' in choice1:
  #do something

It doesn't seem to me to be a good idea; If the input is 'Start',
option1 is executed, likewise if the input is 'Stop', or any other
string with 's' in it.

Perhaps a better idea is to present the user with a choice that cannot
be deviated from, along the lines of...

def main():
  print "1.\tStart"
  print "2.\tSomething Else"
  print "3.\tStop"

  x = raw_input()
  if x is '1': print 'Start'
  elif x is '2': print 'Something else'
  elif x is '3': print 'End'
  else: main()



From benji at benjiyork.com  Mon Oct 10 20:41:44 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:41:44 -0400
Subject: read serial data from a barcode reader/scanner using python
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-DAV10AE6859DD4A49B23E2479CA790@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-DAV10AE6859DD4A49B23E2479CA790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <434B0A48.1070506@benjiyork.com>

Edgar wrote:
> is there a way to program python to read serial data from a barcode 
> reader/scanner

http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

> and then using the parallel port of the PC to activate an
> electromagnetic door lock.

http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/pyparallel.html

For other options see Google (then here if answers are not forthcoming).
--
Benji York


From rtconner at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 17:23:49 2005
From: rtconner at gmail.com (Rob Conner)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 14:23:49 -0700
Subject: dictionaries/pointers
Message-ID: <1128720229.615202.4670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I dont know how to do this and can't think of a simple way to.

All I want is a dictionary where two keys point to the same object.
(to steal the ascii art from
http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html)
I want sometihng like this:

,------.       +-------+
| dict |------>|+-----+|     +---+
`------'       || "a" |+---->| 1 |
               |+-----+|     +---+
               |       |       ^
               |+-----+|       |
               || "b" |+-------'
               |+-----+|
               +-------+
               |       |
               |+-----+|     +---+
               || "c" |+---->| 2 |
               |+-----+|     +---+
               +-------+

Where if I change "a" or "b" to 3 the other one will change?
Is this even possible? How would I do it?



From mistobaan at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 05:49:16 2005
From: mistobaan at gmail.com (Misto .)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:49:16 +0200
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <e437f2f0510190248h28846a8dpda1364ebc57b5653@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129656350.052690.188500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<e437f2f0510190248h28846a8dpda1364ebc57b5653@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e437f2f0510190249j5592cacbs5ed51679f5254566@mail.gmail.com>

I suggest also these:

Spark:
-----------------
http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~aycock/spark/

Few files.
I like how doc strings are used for handling the grammar.


Twisted:
----------------
http://twistedmatrix.com/

I like everything, from test to comments! (many are funny)


Misto


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 14:35:49 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:35:49 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
Message-ID: <IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

George Sakkis wrote:
<snip>
> Just added a recipe at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440673. You can try
> both and see if there's any significant performance difference for your data.
<snip>

Thanks, will take a look at it later. The sort solution seems to work 
nicely. Might be a big difference if I have a lot of sources though as I 
bet the overhead in doing a sort of N items gets higher than doing a 
manipulation of a heap to place an item in the right spot, but with 4-5 
or a few more sources might not make an impact at all.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From timothy at open-networks.net  Wed Oct  5 20:38:07 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:38:07 +1000
Subject: catching all tracebacks
In-Reply-To: <4344679D.9040902@open-networks.net>
References: <4344679D.9040902@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <434471EF.4070009@open-networks.net>

Timothy Smith wrote:

>iw ant to use a singel try except statment with my main app loop in the 
>middle and catch all tracebacks and email them to myself as a bug 
>report. however it seems a little more tricky then i thought
>
>try:
>    Main.Main()
>except Exception, err_o:
>    print err_o.__class__.__name__, '//', err_o, '//', err_o.args
>
>that was suggested to me however it doesn't catch the errors i made in 
>the program, it just spits out a traceback.
>  
>
never mind it works now.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 26 20:17:42 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:17:42 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:53:07 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    Umm, it's not a judgment. Microsoft said you can sell Windows and other 
>operating systems, but there will be a charge for every  machine you sell 
>without Windows -- if you want to be able to buy Windows wholesale. Someone 
>could comply with this by not selling any other operating systems at all and 
>never pay the fee. Therefore, this is a lesser restriction than saying you 
>can only sell Windows wholesale if you don't sell or offer any competing 
>systems. If I have the right to say you can't use my car at all, I have the 
>lesser right to impose the lesser restriction that you can only use my car 
>if you pay me $10.

It makes a big difference that MS has a monopoly.

If I open an washing machine store and Maytag says, "we only sell
wholesale to you if you agree to sell our brand exclusively."

What Microsoft did is different for three reasons:

1. the  Maytag agreement  made up front, not imposed to shut down a
business who has never signed a prior exclusivity contract.

2. The appliance store has lots of other brands to sell. In my case,
failing to comply with MS's illegal and immoral demand would put me
out of busness. They were forcing me into commit criminal acts or lose
my business.

3. Maytag makes the machines.  In the computer instance, we at CMP
custom build the computers. Microsoft have no business telling me what
to do when they supplied only one component. I could not even sell a
BARE computer. 
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 10:26:55 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:26:55 -0700
Subject: Call C functions from Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1528.1128517749.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128514161.835258.138730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1528.1128517749.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128522414.964010.65970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

i tried...

>> from ctypes import *
>> myapp = cdll.LoadLibrary("c:\\myapp.dll")
>> dumpbin /exports myapp.pyd

i get, SyntaxError: invalid syntax with it pointing at the first "p" in
myapp.pyd.



From dashkedar123 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Oct 10 02:20:23 2005
From: dashkedar123 at yahoo.co.in (Kedar Dash)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:20:23 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python Programmer Urgently Required 
Message-ID: <20051010062023.31197.qmail@web8607.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Job Description:

The position holder will supplement the existing pool
of application development and programming pool of
OWSA technical team. In particular S/he will be
responsible for developing Python based overlay
application ? to be mounted on existing software tools
and solutions. The position will report to Programe
Manager, Training & Technical Services.

Required Skills:

    * A degree in Computer Application, Engineering or
another numerate subject
    * 1+ years experience of web application
development in Python or PHP
    * Good understanding of MySQL, PostGreSQL or
another RDBMS platform.
    * Aptitude and experience of technical writing and
process documentation
    * Good oral and written communication abilities;
and ability to work in multi-disciplinary team


To apply for any of these above positions, please send
your latest resume along with details of your current
role and how do your propose to contribute in this
position. Women candidates with the requisite skills &
qualifications are especially encouraged to apply.
OneWorld South Asia is an equal opportunity employer.

Applications along with a one page write up explaining
the suitability to the job may be sent (preferably
through email) to:


Kedar Dash
Team Leader, Web Development
OneWorld South Asia,
C-5 Qutab Institutional Area
New Delhi ? 110016
Tel: 91 11 51689001 Ext 108
Fax: 91 11 51689001

Email : kedar.dash at oneworld.net


		
__________________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com


From http  Thu Oct 13 04:15:37 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 01:15:37 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xek6poms6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

magneticlemur at gmail.com writes:
> Does anyone know of an available downloader for an amd64 bit
> build of (a modern) python?

I've gotten a bug report from someone using Python under Linux on an
amd64, so compiling for 64 bits definitely is feasible.  You could try
the Fedora Core 4 amd64 distro (http://fedora.redhat.com).



From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 18 19:41:28 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 23:41:28 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns96F3BE234B1BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> Oh, and if you think I'm saying something shocking by suggesting that
> somebody is a psychopath, I'm not. Something like one in five of the
> general population are psychopaths,

psychopaths according to DSM IV, or just some silly test from a magazine?

> With training and/or a good dose of enlightened self-interest, most
> psychopaths are perfectly capable of learning to not be selfish

Yup, like everybody can become an olympic swimmer, or get a degree. Just 
work, and you'll make it.

> Actually doing that harm is, or at least should be, although sadly
> when we allow the psychopaths to make the rules, they tend to make
> rules that allow themselves to prosper at our expense.

Hmmmm... and probably one in three is paranoid?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From saint.infidel at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 17:56:07 2005
From: saint.infidel at gmail.com (infidel)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 14:56:07 -0700
Subject: Python, alligator kill each other
Message-ID: <1128635767.068104.232190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

By Denise Kalette
Associated Press

MIAMI - The alligator has some foreign competition at the top of the
Everglades food chain, and the results of the struggle are horror-movie
messy.

A 13-foot Burmese python recently burst after it apparently tried to
swallow a live 6-foot alligator whole, authorities said.

...

... It is unknown how many pythons are competing with the thousands of
alligators in the Everglades, but at least 150 have been captured in
the past two years ...



From richard at zync.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 16:58:21 2005
From: richard at zync.co.uk (Richard Gration)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:58:21 GMT
Subject: check html file size
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:44:02 -0700, Xah Lee wrote:

> would anyone like to translate the following perl script to Python or
> Scheme (scsh)?

Are you fucking seriously fucking expecting some fucking moron to
translate your tech geeking fucking code moronicity? Fucking try writing
it fucking properly in fucking Perl first.

-- 
I guess everybody's the same: Gotta be good at your job before you can enjoy the rest of your life
	-- Cole Trickle



From hauck at gseos.com  Wed Oct 26 13:45:39 2005
From: hauck at gseos.com (Tommytrojan)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 10:45:39 -0700
Subject: Weird import behavior
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2574.1130312621.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130260282.027302.49370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130265049.927710.155050@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2574.1130312621.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130348739.872653.111820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the clarification. I never ran into this before although I
have been working with Python for over 8 years. Good to learn something
new.

Cheers,
  Thomas



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 15:31:17 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:31:17 +0100
Subject: Newbie regular expression ?
In-Reply-To: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhul9u$1hj$1@sea.gmane.org>

len wrote:
> I have the following statement and it works fine;
> 
>     list1 = glob.glob('*.dat')
> 
> however I now have an additional requirement the the string must begin
> with
> any form of "UNQ,Unq,unq,..."
> 
> as an example if I had the following four files in the directory:
> 
> unq123abc.dat
> xy4223.dat
> myfile.dat
> UNQxyc123489-24.dat
> 
> only unq123abc.dat and UNQxyc123489-24.dat would be selected
> 
> I have read through the documentation and I am now sooooo
> confussedddddd!!
> 
You don't need regular expressions. You want

     list1 = glob.glob("[Uu][Nn][Qq]*.dat")

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From nir at digitalpeers.com  Thu Oct 13 08:01:12 2005
From: nir at digitalpeers.com (Nir Aides)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:01:12 +0200
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
In-Reply-To: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434e4ad2$1@news.bezeqint.net>

Hello Len,

You should try the #python IRC room.
It is always very active and helpful.

Nir



LenS wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Was wandering if there is any place where some one could go to get
> mentoring on python coding.  I have started coding in python but I am
> the only one in the shop  using it.  So there is no one around to look
> over my code give suggestions on improvement, in style, logic, easier
> ways of doing things etc.  I am not really looking for hand holding as
> much mentoring.  I have purchased about every python book out and have
> a list a mile long on my internet bookmarks.  I believe I have a good
> grasp of the fundamentals procedurally and I am fighting my way through
> OOP.  I am more at the stage of trying to pull things together into
> programs that perform real world tasks.  At one point I thought I saw
> some place on one of the web site that did this kind of thing but I
> can't find it now.
> 
> Any help or suggestions welcomed
> Len Sumnler
> 


From quiteblack at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 21:14:01 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (black)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 18:14:01 -0700
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
Message-ID: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi all~

in my .py file there are a few print to trace out some message and i
wonder if we can save it into a specified file when that script get
running. if so, i may just check that file to c how the script is
running. can anyone show me a right direction ?

one million tks~



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 04:06:49 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:06:49 +0200
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232346320.24000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <dji4mr$jsn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tom Anderson wrote:

> This is taken from the AIEEEEEEEE 754 standard, i take it? :)
>
> Seriously, that's horrible. Fredrik, you are a bad man, and run a bad
> railway.
>
> However, looking at the page the OP cites, the only mention of that
> operator i can find is in Dylan, and in Dylan, it's nothing to do with
> approximate FP equality - it means 'not identical', which we can spell "is
> not".
>
> What would approximate FP equality even mean? How approximate?

so you don't really know what it is, but you're sure that "looks the same
when printed using a well-defined algorithm" can never be the answer ?

</F>





From ms at cerenity.org  Sun Oct  2 18:33:13 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 23:33:13 +0100
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<434031f6$0$73596$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<mailman.1355.1128285718.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43405fff$0$15048$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
...
> fwiw, they've also been around for ages:
> 
>     http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?list+comprehension
> 
> (the name goes back to the early eighties, the construct is older than
> that)

Ahh... Fair enough. I hadn't come across it as a programming construct until
I hit Python. I'd seen the (presumable) precursor of set comprehension it in
maths & formal methods before though.

To help Xah along, this shows a //more nearly// correct version of his table
function (his doesn't do anything like the spec). It works correctly for
tables of the form:

table("i", ("i",3))
table("i,j", ("i",3), ("j",3))
table("math.cos(i+j)", ("i",3), ("j",-3,3))

It doesn't produce quite the right structure when you have more than
2 iteration rules). 

Problems with this implementation:
   * mkrange() is not passed along the existing context.
     This means tables of the form:
        table("i,j", ("i",3), ("j",1,"i"))

     Won't work. This would require changing the mkRange function such
     that it's passed the most currently built environment. This is a
     relatively trivial change, which I'll leave for Xah.

   * The structure is incorrect for more than 2 iteration rules. I think
     I'm missing a simple/obvious trick in my mkTable._extend_table
     function.
     I'm not really fussed though. (It's clearly something dumb :)

   * It's not really clear which list nests which. It's possible the lists
     are nested the wrong way round.

I'm fairly certain that the evalTable code will work fine when the mkTable
code creates the right structure.

I'll leave that to Xah to fix. It's somewhat further along than his
original attempt though. (actually matches his spec for 1 or 2 iteration
rules).

def mkRange(listspec):
    if len(listspec)==2:
        return xrange(1,listspec[1]+1)
    elif len(listspec)==3:
        return xrange(listspec[1],listspec[2]+1)
    return []

def mkTable(ignore, *listspecs):
    def _extend_table(listspecs, result):
        if len(listspecs) == 0:
            return result
        else:
            listspec = listspecs[-1]
            listspecs = listspecs[:-1]
            r2 = []
            for R_ in result:
                 for R in R_: # SMELLY
                    inner_result = []
                    for i in mkRange(listspec):
                        inner_env2 = dict(R[1])
                        inner_env2[listspec[0]] = i
                        inner_result.append( (ignore, inner_env2) )
                    r2.append(inner_result)
            result = _extend_table(listspecs, r2)
        return result
    return _extend_table(listspecs, 
                         [[(ignore,dict(globals()))]]) # SMELLY

def evalTable(table):
    if len(table) ==0:
        return table
    else:
        result = []
        for evallist in table:
            inner_result = []
            for eval_args in evallist:
              try:
                r = eval(*eval_args)
                inner_result.append(r)
              except TypeError:
                inner_result.append(evalTable(eval_args))
            result.append(inner_result)
        return result

def table(ignore, *listspecs):
    abstract_table = mkTable(ignore, *listspecs)
    return evalTable(abstract_table)

Example:

>>> import math
>>> table("math.cos(i+j)", ("i",3), ("j",-3,3))
[[-0.41614683654714241, 0.54030230586813977, 1.0], [0.54030230586813977,
1.0, 0.54030230586813977], [1.0, 0.54030230586813977,
-0.41614683654714241], [0.54030230586813977, -0.41614683654714241,
-0.98999249660044542], [-0.41614683654714241, -0.98999249660044542,
-0.65364362086361194], [-0.98999249660044542, -0.65364362086361194,
0.28366218546322625], [-0.65364362086361194, 0.28366218546322625,
0.96017028665036597]]

Regards,


Michael.



From Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com  Fri Oct  7 11:36:24 2005
From: Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com (Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:36:24 -0400 
Subject: users of pycurl here?
Message-ID: <20051007153731.4612C1E4005@bag.python.org>


How about doing an 'ls -la' once you have connected to the server?  That
returns a listing of the files with the size in bytes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michele Simionato

I am having a hard time in finding out how to retrieve information about the
*size* of files I want to download from an FTP site. Should I send a QUOTE
SIZE command to the ftp server or is there an easier way?
___________________________________________________________________
The information contained in this message and any attachment may be
proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work
product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify me
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it and all
copies and backups thereof.  Thank you.



From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 20:10:46 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 00:10:46 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <1128467011.312.15.camel@blackwidow>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>	
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>	
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128467011.312.15.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <aSE0f.7450$U51.6798@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

    C++ and C# are converging with implicitly typed languages to the 
extent that many declarations will be able to omit types. In the next 
C++ standard and in C# 3.0 it may be possible to write, where Fn is a 
function returning any particular type:

auto spam = Fn();	// C++0x
var spam = Fn(); 	// C# 3.0

http://www.research.att.com/~bs/rules.pdf
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vcsharp/future/
    (most useful is the C# 3.0 language spec Word document)

    Neil


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 17:40:34 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:40:34 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<k0qok19md1le5ju60ip9a501kt16nia3pv@4ax.com>
	<Xns96ECD2D4D45D4castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <ml0rk1lb6okvoi2r9b4bgttrihe4he019m@4ax.com>

On 12 Oct 2005 01:43:32 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>> So let's say I decide to send an email to Donald Knuth.
>
>:-)

I did write him, snail mail, and he responded giving us permission to
rewrite any of the algorithms in his famous set of books in to Java.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Fri Oct 14 16:03:50 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:03:50 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews><die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <43500eb0@nntp0.pdx.net>

Let me begin by apologizing to Christian as I was too snippy in
my reply, and sounded even snippier than I meant to.

Christian Stapfer wrote:
> "Scott David Daniels" <scott.daniels at acm.org> wrote in message
> news:434ba977 at nntp0.pdx.net...
>>a "better" set implementation will win if
>>it can show better performance without
>>related down-sides.
> 
> Is there ever such a thing? I always
> thought that, most of the time, there
> is no such thing as a free lunch in
If you look at the history of Python's sort, it has steadily gotten
better.  The list implementations has been tweaked to produce better
performance appending and popping.  There are a number of such cases.
In fact, as Python rolls along, code keeps getting improved.  Usually
the requirement is that the change not degrade current benchmarks and
provide a substantial improvement in at least some practical cases.

>>As to the "either now, or eventually;"  if you _must_ have performance
>>now, not in some abstract future, then it behooves you to _test_,
>>_test_, _test_!
> 
> Well, I might want to test: but *first* I want
> to design, preferably in "armchair style" ... [using] 
 > rough complexity measures to ....

>>>>>If the documentation stated the order-of-magnitude
>>>>>behavior of those basic operations up front, then
>>>>>I (and *anyone* else who ever wanted to use those
>>>>>operations on large lists / large sets) could do
>>>>>a quick order-of-magnitude estimation of how
>>>>>a certain program design will behave, performance
>>>>>wise.

I think this is where I started over-reacting.  There are
a number of requests here over time by people who state
that things would be so much better for every one if only
someone (never themselves) did some more work that they
might not otherwise want to do.  The people who implement
the code often do so on their own time.  I find the Python
docs surprisingly good for even commercial documentation.
For work that is done gratis, it is phenomenal.  I hesitate
to ask any more of it (although I have pointed out bugs in
docs as I've found them).

>>And, if the proper documentation is in place, and it
>>says "dictionary lookup is O(N)" (and you avoid using
>>it for exactly that reason), how surprised will you be
>>to discover that the O(N) is only reached if the hash
>>values of the keys are all equal?
> 
> It's not that difficult to distinguish
> *average* case and *worst* case scenarios.
> It might even be a good idea to state,
> if that can easily be done, what the
> *best* case happens do be...
> 
>>Oh, maybe you expect "O(N)" to really mean "\Theta(N)".
>>Then, if you are a dweeb like me, you will respond that
>>"This is not possible, a dictionary of size N must take at
>>least 'O(lg N)' to read the key, never mind processing it."
>>But, it turns out, that given a bound on the size of a
>>process, processing an address is "O(1)", not "O(lg N)".
>>Is that too practical for you, or not enough?
> 
> I do not expect a developer to expend *inordinate*
> amounts of work to figure out the computational
> complexity of what he has implemented. But, as I
> wrote, he *must* have thought about the matter, and
> is thus, by definition, in a rather good position
> to provide what he can frequently simply pull from
> memory when it comes to documenting the interface
> of his module.

I talked about Big-O (worst case) or Big-Theta (average case)
just to point out that no simple characterization like "O(N)"
tells enough of the story to be practically useful.  Once you
decide that isn't good enough, the burden on creating the
documentation is getting substantial, especially given that
you've already spent the effort to write the code and tests
for it.  In fact I'd hesitate to raise the documentation bar
any higher -- I'd hate to think someone thought, "Oh, forget
it, I'll just use this code myself."

>>>>> *Experimenting* is not necessarily as easy to
>>>>>do as you seem to believe.
No, "experimenting" is not always easy (though often it is
easy enough).  However, "experimenting" puts the cost on the
person who derives the benefit, and is thus likely to not be
done in a slipshod way.

> I am not at all a lawyer type, as you seem to
> imagine. I just want to suggest that some
> (to the implementer - but not the average user)
> *easily* available information about computational
> complexity (especially for the most basic data types)
> would be a good thing to have. Nothing more.
My point is that simple performance characterization is not
good enough to be useful, and fully accurate characterization
is an onerous documentation burden.  Something in between
will be fraught with complaints about "surprising" worst
cases.  Whether you would approach middle-ground documentation
with the spirit of "this is enough to go on" or not, rest
assured that a number of people will complain in a "language-
lawyer-like" way about any perceived imperfections.

>>Would you mind if the quality is proportional to
>>the price you paid?
Here I was too snippy.  Sorry.

>>>>You are, of course, either assuming that there's a
>>>>single implementation of Python,
>>>>or that all implementations have the same behaviour.
(Each line denied with "Of course not.")
But realistically, most users will learn the performance
characteristics once, and continue to use the trade-offs
that were characteristics of that version of Python going
forward.  Now maybe you behave differently, but most
programmers I know (and I explicitly include myself) do
have that tendency.  Lots of python code moves around
operating systems and implementations (and the number
of implementations is growing).

>>>But it is reasonable, anyway, to ask for information
>>>about a specific implementation (that one is *forced*
>>>to use).
>>You are not _forced_ to use any implementation of Python.
> What I wanted to say is ... this: *whenever* a Python
> program is run, it will run on some specific
> implementation of Python. That much should be obvious.
If I were still in a snippy mood, I'd point out that you
might look at your original statement and see how it might
be read by someone who accidentally read what you wrote,
rather than what wanted to write.

>>You are free to implement your own Python system.
> Don't be ridiculous.
If Pypy gets going this may not be as unlikely as you think.
You will be able to (relatively easily) replace implementations
of parts of Python and re-generate a system.

> It is you (and only you) here, who is arguing that if
> perfection is not attainable (with reasonable effort),
> nothing should be done at all.
I am trying to say the request you make is substantially larger
than you understand (or would appear at first blush).  Further
it is a request that asks for work from others for your (and
other's) benefit, not work that you offer to pitch in and help on.

> I am as willing to live with imperfect module inferface
> specification as I am willing with imperfect tools more
> generally.  But that will not stop me from making
> *suggestions* for improvement (not arrogant demands, mind you).
Try writing something that would fit your standards for all of
the basic types, punting where you don't know details.  If it is
enough to be useful, others will chip in and help fix it where it
is broken.

> I have seen *many* books on algorithms that specify
> computational complexity measures for the algorithms
> described. Any really good library of algorithms will
> at least try to reach that standard, too.
How many "really good libraries of algorithms" do you know of?
Could you name a couple that have these characterizations?
Practical code is rife with issues of "finite address space,"
low-order effects swamping the higher-order terms for most
practical sizes and such.  It is this collection of nasty little
details that makes characterizing libraries frustratingly hard.

>>>I consider it the job of the implementer to ...
>>Am I to take it you provide this to all of your customers?
> ...I did not want to pose as the customer who expects nothing
 > but perfection from *others* (but not himself, of course).
> I am not at all like that: you are attacking
> a figment of your imagination.
Actually, I was not attacking at all.  I was trying to suggest
that it is a harder task than you imagine.  I am assuming you won't
take me up on the suggestion of starting a flawed document, but I'd
be happy to be proved wrong.  If not, try writing a characterization
of the performance of a dozen or so of your own programs.  Does the
result seem useful in proportion to the work it took you to write it?

>>>How reasonable is it to ask me, or anyone else
>>>for that matter, to extract, experiment-wise
>>>(if it can be done at all with reasonable effort)
>>>information that properly belongs to the implementer
>>>and really should have been exposed in the
>>>documentation in the first place?

>>Not at all reasonable.  How reasonable is it to ask
>>me to provide you support information for free?

OK, here I was _very_ snippy.  Sorry again.

I will assert that often the experiment results in a single bit of
information: "it is fast enough."  Experimenting will get you reliable
answers like that, and only when run-time is an issue will you need to
go into it much further.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 19:30:23 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:30:23 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<7xbr1ijvy2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <jSe6f.6177$7h7.3861@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Paul,

That won't cut it: The cards I use/code do not have RSA capabilities but
only symmetrical algorithms (AES, 3DES, ....). I use the same type of
authentication you would see between a POS and a Smart Card (ex: B0' in
France)

So I cannot hookup to one of the standards (PKCS11 or CSP).

Thanks anyway.

Regards,

Philippe



Paul Rubin wrote:

> "Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
>> ***** HOW (if there's a better way let me know please) ******
>> As I have not found any better solution yet, I am trying to do the
>> following (on the server there is an html file and a cgi file)
> 
> If I understand it, you're trying to use a smart card to authenticate
> a web site login.  The major browsers already have smart card interfaces
> (Windows CAPI for MSIE, or PKCS11 for Netscape/Moz*) so you shouldn't
> need a plugin.  On the other hand, smart cards are very slow.
> 
> The typical approach is as follows (MSIE version).  Stop using special
> smart card programs and just use a card that implements CAPI with a
> from the vendor and that can sign against an X509 certificate.  The
> CSP will have a special signature that makes it less scary to install
> than a browser plugin.  You'll have to issue a cert for the smart card
> and there's various approaches to that, so I'll skip that part.  Set
> up a TLS server to require a client cert from the CA that signed the
> smart card.  The browser should recognize the challenge and select the
> right cert.  The CSP will have its own interface for the user entering
> a PIN along with inserting the card.  Once you have the TLS connection
> established, set a secure cookie in the client session and then redirect
> the browser to another URL that doesn't require the smart card (because
> otherwise the card will have to re-authenticate every click, which is
> very slow).  From then on, use the cookie for authentication (it can
> have a timeout or whatever).



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Oct  7 17:26:57 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:26:57 -0700
Subject: dictionaries/pointers
In-Reply-To: <1128720229.615202.4670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128720229.615202.4670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <p-idnZihWLS_ddvenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

Rob Conner wrote:

> I dont know how to do this and can't think of a simple way to.
> 
> All I want is a dictionary where two keys point to the same object.
> (to steal the ascii art from
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html)
> I want sometihng like this:
> 
> ,------.       +-------+
> | dict |------>|+-----+|     +---+
> `------'       || "a" |+---->| 1 |
>                |+-----+|     +---+
>                |       |       ^
>                |+-----+|       |
>                || "b" |+-------'
>                |+-----+|
>                +-------+
>                |       |
>                |+-----+|     +---+
>                || "c" |+---->| 2 |
>                |+-----+|     +---+
>                +-------+
> 
> Where if I change "a" or "b" to 3 the other one will change?
> Is this even possible? How would I do it?

Objects of type int are immutable in Python, so you'll need a helper 
class to do this.  Try something like:

 >>> class Container:
...    def __init__(self, value=None): self.value = value
...    def get(self): return self.value
...    def set(self, value): self.value = value
...
 >>> one = Container(1)
 >>> myDictionary = {}
 >>> myDictionary['a'] = one
 >>> myDictionary['b'] = one
 >>> myDictionary['b'].set(3)
 >>> print myDictionary['a'].get()
3

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Never make a promise or plan / Take a little love where you can
   -- Florence, _Chess_


From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Thu Oct 27 09:05:37 2005
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (Svenn Are Bjerkem)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:05:37 +0200
Subject: forum
References: <1128272422.987128.295820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dcaef0818ed6c339896b3@news>

In article <1128272422.987128.295820 at g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, 
csheppard91 at gmail.com says...
> Forum commuication is easier, and I've just started a new forum and
> would like to  invite all of you to sign up and post there.  I'm still

I don't agree. USENET is easier because you can search and post on 
groups.google.com. You don't have to register, you can use your 
favourite NNTP reader etc.
-- 
Svenn


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 11:24:24 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:24:24 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <djb0e4$h1b$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>	<43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<dja4ss$m2i$2@sea.gmane.org>	<4358C7A6.1040907@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2354.1129894994.509.python-list@python.org>	<4358F492.7000406@imperial.ac.uk>
	<djb0e4$h1b$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <djb173$jmq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
[...]
> 
> I think so. It's not normal adive, but it sounds like a metaclass might 
> be what you need here.
> 
^adive^advice^

spell-me-own-name-wrong-next-ly y'rs  - evest
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From chris at angband.org  Fri Oct 14 16:27:13 2005
From: chris at angband.org (Operation Latte Thunder)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:27:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt being lost?
Message-ID: <dip4b1$t8t$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>

I have a simple test proggie that isn't behaving like I expect ( found
below ).  The script will infinitely run ( as expected ), but seems to
completely ignore control-C's.  Shouldn't the interpreter pass along
KeyboardInterrupts and break out of the while loop, or am I missing
something?

Using python 2.4.2 on linux ( if it matters )

-- Script Below --

import threading, traceback, time

class TestThread ( threading.Thread ):
        def __init__ ( self ):
                threading.Thread.__init__ ( self )
        def run ( self ):
                print "Starting..."
                while True:
                        time.sleep ( 1 )
                return

if __name__ == '__main__':
        test = TestThread ( )
        test.start()
        print "Started..."
        test.join()


-- 
chris


From david at jotax.com  Wed Oct 26 03:57:44 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:57:44 -0700
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-A70110.21161425102005@news.verizon.net>
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<*firstname*nlsnews-A70110.21161425102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1130313463.973864.287730@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Nice - I like that Tony.  I had seen it around before but I didn't
catch on.  Thanks for the clear example..



From rdm at rcblue.com  Sat Oct  8 20:53:10 2005
From: rdm at rcblue.com (Dick Moores)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:53:10 -0700
Subject: Book "Python and Tkinter Programming"
In-Reply-To: <O7Y1f.109114$oW2.51048@pd7tw1no>
References: <1128620086.240847.235490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<O7Y1f.109114$oW2.51048@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051008175005.03f9e310@rcblue.com>

DaveInSidney wrote at 15:55 10/8/2005:
>Check out BestBookBuys:
>http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Python_and_Tkinter_Programming-ISBN_1884777813.html?isrc=b-search

Or even better, BestBookDeal.com:
<http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/1884777813>

Dick Moores



From utabintarbo at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 10:43:00 2005
From: utabintarbo at gmail.com (utabintarbo at gmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:43:00 -0700
Subject: question about output
References: <1128522271.424943.204030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128523380.618777.10710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Given that the format is consistent (and the last char is not part of
the number you want), you can probably do something like this:

x = int('10944800e'[:-1])

Disclaimer: I am a n00b. YMMV ;-)



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 03:49:27 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:49:27 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:50:07 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    The Microsoft agreement is also up front. It's not "imposed" in
>> any sense except that it's one of the conditions for buying Windows
>> wholesale.

> No it was not .  It was never on paper.  It was not imposed until I
> had been in business for at least 5 years.

    I guess I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that 
Microsoft demanded you pay them per machine you sold under the table in the 
absence of a written contract that said that? Or are you simply saying that 
they changed the terms of your agreement when it came up for renewal?

    DS




From kent37 at tds.net  Wed Oct 19 11:58:33 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:58:33 -0400
Subject: parser question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2258.1129734924.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dj5ldl$k25$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<mailman.2258.1129734924.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43566b30_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Micah Elliott wrote:
> You might be able to tackle this easily enough with REs if your
> structures don't nest arbitrarily.  It's hard to tell if this deserves
> a formal grammar based on the example.  If it does, you could try PLY
> <http://www.dabeaz.com/ply/> (which I've had a pleasant experience
> with in the past) or any of the other parsers listed on the PLY site's
> "Other Python Parsing Tools".

A more complete list is here:
http://www.nedbatchelder.com/text/python-parsers.html

I have found pyparsing easy to work with.

Kent


From mytsai at u.washington.edu  Fri Oct 14 12:09:25 2005
From: mytsai at u.washington.edu (Mingus Tsai)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:09:25 -0500
Subject: Help with cPickle for deserializing datetime.datetime instances
In-Reply-To: <dinsit$ok7$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
References: <dinj0p$ot1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<dinsit$ok7$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <diol7o$gqm$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

Hans Georg Krauthaeuser wrote:
> Mingus Tsai schrieb:
> 
>>Hello- please help with unpickling problem:
>>
>>I am using Python version 2.3.4 with IDLE version 1.0.3 on a Windows
>>XPhome system.
>>
>>My problem is with using cPickle to deserialize my pickled arrays of
>>datetime.datetime instances.  The following is the code I have written:
>>
>>    import cPickle, datetime
>>    import Numeric
>>
>>#the file below contains a serialized dict with arrays of datetime
>>#objects.  When these three statements run, the IDLE crashes!
>>
>>    input1 = open('tsm2_outa','r')
>>    time1 = cPickle.load(input1)
>>    input1.close()
>>
>>#the file below contains serialized dict with arrays of built-in objects
>>#it unpickles without any problem, when I omit the above unpickling
>>#operation.
>>
>>    input2 = open('tsm2_outb','rb')
>>    data1 = cPickle.load(input2)
>>    input2.close()
>>
>>My guess is that I need to somehow tell the pickle.load command that it
>>is loading datetime instances, but I have no idea how to do this.  Any
>>help would be much appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Ming
> 
> How did you wrote the pickle-file. If you used mode 2 you have to open
> the file with mode "rb", as you did for the other pickle file.
> 
> Hans

here's the code from my pickling:
#dict of arrays of datetime objects
export1 = {'gagetime':gagednt2ar,'gagetime_offset':gagednt2_offsetar,
         'tektime_lagb':mdntmar,'tektime':mdntzar,'tektime_lagf':mdntpar}

#dict of arrays of built-in objects
datamat = {'az':azrowfar,'el':elrowfar,'tekrange_lagb':mtmt,
            'tekrange':mtzt,'tekrange_lagf':mtpt,'teksig_lagb':mvmt,
            'teksig':mvzt,'teksig_lagf':mvpt,'gagerange':gagerange,
            'gagesig':gagesig}

time_out = open('tsm2_outa','w')
cPickle.dump(export1,time_out)
time_out.close()

data_out = open('tsm2_outb','wb')
cPickle.dump(datamat,data_out,1)
data_out.close()

------ So, you can see that the first dict is pickled in ascii (those 
arrays are pretty small), but the second dict (the one that i have no 
problem unpickling) is pickled in binary.  However, I have tried both 
ascii and binary for the frist dict, but both crash the IDLE.  I don't 
understand how pickling works with non built-in objects--is it necessary 
for me to tell it that I have datetime objects and how do i do that?

Or perhaps there's something entirely different happening?

much obliged, Ming


From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sun Oct 23 15:41:28 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:41:28 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>


"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote in message 
news:djgm8u$k14$1 at nntp.webmaster.com...
>
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86irvo861u.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>
>> David claimed that everyone had a right to do whatever they wanted
>> with their property. This is simply false throughout most of the
>> civilized world - zoning laws control what kinds of business you can
>> run on your property, various laws designed to control the looks of
>> the town dictate what you can do to the exterior or lawn, flood and
>> earthquake laws state what kinds of structural changes you can make,
>> and so on. I took the view of a political extremist to point out that
>> he was wrong. David predictably used that to tar me as an extremist
>> from the other end of the spectrum.
>
>    Here's a question for you, Mike. Presumably, you have the right not to 
> be shot for no reason at all. Does that right act as a bulletproof vest 
> that actually physically prevents me from shooting you? If I argued that a 
> person had a right not to be shot for no reason at all by a random 
> stranger, would you point out that such shootings occur throughout the 
> civilized world as some kind of refutation?
>
>    The way you respond to what I'm saying shows that you really don't have 
> any clue whatsoever of what the words I'm using *mean*. Do you even know 
> what a "right" is? (Such that, for example, it's possible for rogue 
> governments to violate the rights of their citizens even if those 
> governments don't recognize those rights.)
>

I'd be interested in hearing what you think a right is? In Florida, for 
example, you have the right to gun someone down if you think they're a bit 
too menacing. In Canada, most people find that reprehensible. So does a 
Floridian visiting Canada have their rights infringed on by our rogue 
government because they're not allowed to gun down menacing looking 
Canadians at will? Should they be able to exercise that right regardless and 
not have to face the consequences of our laws?

I think "right", however, was the wrong choice of words in this thread; 
there is rarely anything codifying a company's "right" to succeed at all 
costs and at the expense of all competition (except Crown Corporations and 
the like, which are created (in theory, anyway) in the interest of general 
population as opposed to it). Your question here appears to be one of 
ethics. Is MS ethically bankrupt for pursuing business practices that run 
counter to society's established norms, and should they be punished for 
doing so? And is their behaviour the more reprehensible because of the 
contempt they show for the decisions of society's judicial arm.

Matt 




From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 11:25:34 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:25:34 +0100
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
In-Reply-To: <1128435341.708873.244050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<*firstname*nlsnews-B3B8C2.18033703102005@news.verizon.net>
	<1128435341.708873.244050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhu6t6$cjn$1@sea.gmane.org>

leo wrote:
>>However, I think the functionality you're asking for is available as
>>inspect.currentframe(), and if the implementation is in "C" it may have a tiny
>>performance advantage over the Python version.
> 
> 
> You're absolutely right, in fact the code snippet from my OP was taken
> directly from inspect.currentframe. We're intending on using this in
> production, and I'm trying to gauge what the implications may be.
> 
> 
>>Python uses exceptions internally, using StopIteration to terminate the
>>iterator in a for: loop.
> 
> 
> Wow, I was unaware of this. If Python internally uses exceptions, maybe
> they aren't as detrimental as I thought.
> 
> That said, I will be judiciously profiling my code and measuring as
> much as possible, I just wanted to throw this question out to the NG in
> case anyone had done this before (and so I can put off learning the
> profiler a little bit longer :) )
> 
> Thanks all for the replies.
> 
Do note, however, that detecting an exception inside the C framework of 
the interpreter carries less overhead than detecting an exception in 
Python itself.

That said, exceptions are probably rather more "lightweight" than you 
might imagine, so benchmarking (the profiler may not be best - have you 
come across "timeit.py"?) is the best way to go.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de  Fri Oct 28 13:12:27 2005
From: g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de (g.franzkowiak)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:12:27 +0200
Subject: popen2
Message-ID: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>

I start a process in my application with popen2.popen3('MyOtherProcess').
That's ok, but what can I do if the other process is running ?
Can I fetch some information and start with that ?

gerd


From iddw at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 10 19:17:06 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:17:06 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1655.1128664871.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>
	<mailman.1860.1128980285.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128986126.7aab88bc9d9a2f56ea6d61ec086380ec@teranews>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:42:34 -0500, Terry Hancock
<hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>On Sunday 09 October 2005 07:50 am, phil hunt wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>> >GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
>> >reading it as written pretty much makes sense).
>> 
>> I know, let's re-write Python to make it more like COBOL! That's 
>> bound to be a winner!
>
>Whereas the "natural order" of "condition affirmative negative" is natural
>for what reason?  That it is so in C?

And Basic, and Fortran, and Lisp, and just about any programming
language you care to name, including python (if Condition: Affirmative
else: Negative).

Not to mention that the sequence is identical to execution order.
It's just plain goofy to have to scan to the middle of an expression
to find out what happens first, then depending on the result of that,
skipping back over what you just skipped.

>
>I don't find that so compelling either, frankly.  Why should it really
>matter in the end?  I've always found C's order (and punctuation) confusing,

Confusing how?  Perform test, choose branch.  Simple.

And it's not punctuation.  It's an operator, just like + or & or ~.  I
can understand how you might find the terseness confusing, though.

>I have to look it up practically everytime I use it or have to read it 
>(which correlates to it being used very rarely, with causality in both
>directions).

FWIW, in over 20 years of C programming, I use it pretty rarely too,
though I never had to look it up after I first saw it in K&R. It only
very rarely holds any advantage over a simple if/else statement,
especially in modern compilers. It's most useful in macros, which
python doesn't even have.

>
>Given that situation, choosing a form which is easy to read is surely
>an advantage, and, since it is the way that Python has handled logic
>in the past, it makes sense to continue doing so.

Easy to read out loud, but complex to understand, with all the back
and forth scanning required.

>
>No doubt, ANY choice of ternary operator for Python will be
>criticized, and no doubt, ANY choice would nevertheless be
>usable.

The whole idea of a ternary operator is somewhat complex.  

>
>OTOH, I think this choice is consistent with the rest of Python's
>design. The general choice to use keyword operators for LOGIC
>and symbolic operators for MATH is retained, and so long as we're
>describing the logic in words, it makes sense for the wording
>to sound natural.

I guess I agree, thoug I would have preferred to see something like
r = c ?then: yes else: no

>
>Consistency certainly does make it easier for me to remember.

I guess I disagree that it's consistent, at least with the way I see
python.

>
>Python's main advantage over other languages, for me, is that
>it makes me run to the manual a lot less, and I generally don't
>get confused trying to follow other people's code.

I'm inexperienced enough to keep Beazley's book at my elbow when
writing my own code, though reading other's code is usually simpler.
Until things like __metaclass__ and @classmethod start showing up...

Regards,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 07:01:14 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 13:01:14 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com><4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net><1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews><slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org><7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><1128676408.129888.297840@g
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <di5khq$9uv$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Christophe" wrote:

> It's more of a "Nearly too late" type checking I would say. Not that I
> complain but it would be great if there were also some automatic type
> checking to catch a few errors as soon as possible.

use assert as the soonest possible point.  implementing "type gates" is
trivial, if you think you need them.

</F> 





From m.barenco at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 20:45:12 2005
From: m.barenco at gmail.com (m.barenco at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 17:45:12 -0700
Subject: dictionnaries and lookup tables
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.11.23.14.00.488521@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1913.1129054654.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129056624.073937.207160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.11.23.14.00.488521@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1129077912.846879.140640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Ok, Thanks for your answers, that's pretty unambiguous.

M.



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 16:46:34 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:46:34 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <di83sd$v87$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<200510071643.11162.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<di83sd$v87$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510101546.34584.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 08 October 2005 04:35 am, Steve Holden wrote:
> I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for 
> embiggening prices.

Not nearly as much as the DoD, from what I hear.

Truthfully, I think those stories are bit exaggerated -- I think the
real problem is somebody making a bad make/buy decision. They decide
to make something that they could easily have bought at the hardware
store.

Naturally, any time you make a one-off part, it costs something awful.

That's the real reason that, say, Apollo was so expensive. Nearly
every part was a one-off prototype.  If you get used to that almost
always being the case, it shouldn't be so surprising that somebody
forgets to check to see if the odd part *can* be sourced commercially.

Of course, making one-off parts isn't nearly as hard today as it
was in 1965, so that's interesting too.

Sorry for the digression, but the real story behind things like
that is kind of interesting, IMHO. ;-)

And I think the original joke is pretty dead by now. ;-)

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 19 16:58:32 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:58:32 -0400
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
References: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ocwa.184dksqmnv1q1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129712258.200656.202440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86fyqxw7ev.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"S?b" <scapt at unil.ch> writes:
>> Essentially, if I understand correctly, you want to detect LOOPS given a
>> sequence of directed connections A->B.  "loop detection" and "graph"
>> would then be the keywords to search for, in this case.
>
> Exactly, but the sequence has to be discovered by the piece of code !
>
>> Does this "then" imply you're only interested in loops occurring in this
>> *sequence*, i.e., is order of connections important?  If the sequence of
>> directed connections was, say, in the different order:
>>
>> B->C
>> A->B
>> C->A
>>
>> would you want this detected as a loop, or not?
>
> Yes, it would be nice to detect it as a loop, with for example a
> threshold. Btw, it would be nice to ignore additional connections in
> such a way :
>
> B->C # Normal connection
> D->E # Additional connection to ignore
> A->B # Normal connection
> C->A # Normal connection
>
> Would it be possible ?

As Ben Sizer pointed out, this is a fairly well-known graph
algorithm. You just want to add information to add ordering
information to each edge, so you can verify that the an edge that is
further down the path is "older" than the last edge added. Given your
ordering requirement, simply numbering the edges and checking that the
"older" edge has a larger number than the previous edge should do.

With my admin hat on, I have to wonder - don't you really want to deal
with duration? I.e - each connection has a "start" and "end" time, and
you're really only interested in paths that happen while all the
connections actually exist? Just a wild ass guess, mind you. However,
it doesn't radically change the test. You now tag each edge with a
start and stop time, and check that all previous edges on the path
exist while the one you are adding exists.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From percivall at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 11:38:38 2005
From: percivall at gmail.com (Simon Percivall)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 08:38:38 -0700
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129477118.700187.17570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you find that you want to iterate over an iterable multiple times,
have a look at the solution that the tee() function in the itertools
module provides (http://docs.python.org/lib/itertools-functions.html).
(Have a look at the rest of the itertools module as well, for that
matter.)



From sjmaster at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 16:52:06 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:52:06 -0700
Subject: Lambda evaluation
References: <mailman.1635.1128629887.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128631926.003173.237990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Here's another one:

>>> d = {}
>>> for x in [1,2,3]:
... 	d[x] = (lambda z: lambda y: y * z) (x)
... 	
>>> d[1](3)
3
>>> d[2](3)
6



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Fri Oct 28 14:38:55 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:38:55 -0500
Subject: SNMP
In-Reply-To: <1130515702.436348.190240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130515702.436348.190240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4362703F.30106@websafe.com>



py wrote:
>>From what I have seen Python does not come with an snmp module built
> in, can anyone suggest some other SNMP module (preferably one you have
> used/experienced)..I have googled and seen yapsnmp and pysnmp (which
> seem to be the two most active SNMP modules).
> 
> Thanks
> 
Google turns up the following:

Yet Another Python SNMP module - http://yapsnmp.sourceforge.net/intro.html
Python SNMP framework  - http://pysnmp.sourceforge.net/

Larry Bates


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 07:02:34 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:02:34 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11l48tuqj7m11b5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.11.02.32.502853@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:54:20 +0200, Jeroen Wenting wrote:

>> What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
>> practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
>> PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
>> Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
>> didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.
>>
> And were later forced to rescind. 

False. When the Bush administration took over from Clinton, they didn't
follow through with punishing Microsoft for, e.g. perjury, but they didn't
"rescind" the judgement.

> The judge who wrote that opinion is well 
> known for his anti-Microsoft activism.

Well, that sure answered my previous question. 

Remember, Microsoft has been found guilty of illegal practices in *many*
civil suits, and settled out of court many more, plus TWO American DoJ
investigations by two different judges, plus Japan, the EU, and a number
of individual European nations.


-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 20 03:27:53 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:27:53 +0200
Subject: Extention Woes
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><mailman.2273.1129754855.509.python-list@python.org><1129777857.676019.263340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><1129780560.288676.177850@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129782119.830390.235540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj7gtp$a9c$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Tuvas" wrote:

> Well, the point of declaring it as a char was to have it as an 8 bit
> integer, as is requested later on in the program.

since ParseTuple writes an integer to the address you pass in,
that's likely to overwrite some random stuff on the stack.  like-
wise, passing in a character buffer where ParseTuple expects
a pointer to a char pointer isn't going to work either (but that
only writes garbage into the buffer).

> Anyways, I tried making the changes, similar results.

post the new code and the output it's giving you.

> BTW, it doesn't give me one single warning, so I don't think it's a
> casting problem...

the C compiler doesn't understand the ParseTuple format string,
so that doesn't mean anything.  it's up to you to make sure that
the format specifiers and the pointers you pass in match.

</F>





From david.rasmussen at gmx.net  Sat Oct 29 18:55:32 2005
From: david.rasmussen at gmx.net (David Rasmussen)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 00:55:32 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.28.23.41.14.445842@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.14.445842@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <4363fdd4$0$2107$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:22:11 -0700, pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>>Which is quite fast. The only problems is that the file might be huge.
> 
> What *you* call huge and what *Python* calls huge may be very different
> indeed. What are you calling huge?
> 

I'm not saying that it is too big for Python. I am saying that it is too 
big for the systems it is going to run on. These files can be 22 MB or 5 
GB or ..., depending on the situation. It might not be okay to run a 
tool that claims that much memory, even if it is available.

> 
>>I really have no need for reading the entire file into a string as I am
>>doing here. All I want is to count occurences this substring. Can I
>>somehow count occurences in a file without reading it into a string
>>first?
> 
> Magic?
> 

That would be nice :)

But you misunderstand me...

> You have to read the file into memory at some stage, otherwise how can you
> see what value the bytes are? 

I haven't said that I would like to scan the file without reading it. I 
am just saying that the .count() functionality implemented into strings 
could just as well be applied to some abstraction such as a stream (I 
come from C++). In C++, the count() functionality would be separated as 
much as possible from any concrete datatype (such as a string), 
precisely because it is a concept that is applicable at a more abstract 
level. I should be able to say "count the substring occurences of this 
stream" or "using this iterator" or something to that effect. If I could say

print file("filename", "rb").count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")

(or something like that)

instead of the original

print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")

it would be exactly what I am after. What is the conceptual difference? 
The first solution should be at least as fast as the second. I have to 
read and compare the characters anyway. I just don't need to store them 
in a string. In essence, I should be able to use the "count occurences" 
functionality on more things, such as a file, or even better, a file 
read through a buffer with a size specified by me.

> 
> Here is another thought. What are you going to do with the count when you
> are done? That sounds to me like a pretty pointless result: "Hi user, the
> file XYZ has 27 occurrences of bitpattern \x00\x00\x01\x00. Would you like
> to do another file?"
> 

It might sound pointless to you, but it is not pointless for my purposes :)

If you must know, the above one-liner actually counts the number of 
frames in an MPEG2 file. I want to know this number for a number of 
files for various reasons. I don't want it to take forever.

> If you are planning to use this count to do something, perhaps there is a
> more efficient way to combine the two steps into one -- especially
> valuable if your files really are huge.
> 

Of course, but I don't need to do anything else in this case.

/David


From savatage4ever at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 05:44:18 2005
From: savatage4ever at gmail.com (savatage4ever at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 02:44:18 -0700
Subject: All What You Are Looking For And Mor ...
Message-ID: <1129801458.568596.182860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello Dear friend...
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you can find all what you are looking for in all the internet to
download it like ...

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Movies
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So please come and see what we can offer for you at
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From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 10:57:22 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:57:22 +0100
Subject: Accessing a dll from Python
In-Reply-To: <11lhuqar6sklqa0@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lhuqar6sklqa0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510210757g200afd65k@mail.gmail.com>

On 21/10/05, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> Sorry, I've no clue about anything VB-related unless it's
> Victoria Bitter.

+1 QOTW.

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From apgwoz at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 08:23:12 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:23:12 -0400
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
In-Reply-To: <11k13a57dtm2u0d@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.1357.1128292457.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11k13a57dtm2u0d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <A35F4044-6ED2-447C-BC90-D63FA9637542@gmail.com>


On Oct 2, 2005, at 9:45 PM, Nigel Rowe wrote:

> David Pratt wrote:
>
>
>> Hi.  Is anyone aware of any python based unacceptable language filter
>> code to scan and detect bad language in text from uploads etc.
>>
>> Many thanks.
>> David
>>
>
> You might be able to adapt languagetool.
> http://www.danielnaber.de/languagetool/features.html
>
> Later versions have been ported to Java, but the old python version of
> languagetool is at http://tkltrans.sourceforge.net/#r03
>
> His thesis paper is at
> http://www.danielnaber.de/languagetool/download/ 
> style_and_grammar_checker.pdf
>
> Mind you, given the poor language skills of many native english  
> speakers
> (not to mention those for whom english is a second language)  
> relying on
> automated filters to enforce 'good' language seems a trifle  
> extreme.  This
> post for example would probably not pass.
>
> Cheers,
>         Nigel
>
> PS. For the humour impaired, this g*d d*mm post was a f*cking joke,  
> OK! :-)
>
> Mind you, the links are real.
>
> -- 
>         Nigel Rowe
>         A pox upon the spammers that make me write my address like..
>                 rho (snail) swiftdsl (stop) com (stop) au
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



I think he may be referring to "bad" words, and 'filthy' language. At  
least that's what i got from the question.
There are many PHP implementations on the web, which could be adapted  
to python fairly easily. Most of which are probably not the most  
ideal solution and
involve alot of stuff like

       for n in badwords:
             texttofilter.replace(n, '<bad word deleted>')

If that's all you need though, maybe it's not so bad.


---
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org




From dont at spam.me  Wed Oct  5 11:59:52 2005
From: dont at spam.me (Bugs)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:59:52 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python, or go with a dot net
	language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <incb13-otn.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net> <incb13-otn.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <nNKdnYt-5pjkZd7eRVn-pg@comcast.com>

Another page with up to date IronPython information:
http://www.gotdotnet.com/workspaces/workspace.aspx?id=ad7acff7-ab1e-4bcb-99c0-57ac5a3a9742

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <dhrd6q$rd7$1 at news.isdn.net>, spiffo <noone at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 
>>I am a corporate developer, working for a single company. Got a new project
>>coming up and wondering if I should stay with Python for this new, fairly
>>large project, are jump back on the 'safe' M$ bandwagon using a dot net
>>language? Cross platform is NOT an issue, but COMPLETE control/compatability
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> While I know others in this thread have already mentioned the
> fact somewhat obliquely, I'll make it explicit:  Python IS "a
> dot net language" <URL: http://ironpython.com/ >.


From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Mon Oct  3 18:03:28 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:03:28 GMT
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-B3B8C2.18033703102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1128375280.034852.119910 at o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
 "leo" <leomendoza at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all -
> 
> I was wondering about the performance implications of explicitly
> raising exceptions to get information about the current frame.
> Something like what the inspect module does, with:

Python uses exceptions internally, using StopIteration to terminate the 
iterator in a for: loop.

> ---
> def currentframe():
>     """Return the frame object for the caller's stack frame."""
>     try:
>         raise 'catch me'
>     except:
>         return sys.exc_traceback.tb_frame.f_back
> ---

This also does a traceback; you might want to measure the cost of that.

> I come from a java background, where Exceptions are a big Avoid Me, but
> are the performance implications the same in Python? We're expecting a
> big load on our app (100,000 users/hour) , so we'd like to be as tuned
> as possible.

Switching to Python, eh?  Remember to measure, measure, measure!
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Oct  5 14:05:18 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:05:18 -0500
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051005180518.GG13147@unpythonic.net>

I'm surprised you found any example of 'locals().update' that worked.
Here's one that doesn't work:
	def f(y):
	    locals().update({'x': y})
	    return x
    
	print f(3)  # prints 3?

Jeff
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From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 07:01:56 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:01:56 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:39:27 +0000, John Bokma wrote:

> Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Roedy Green wrote:
>> 
>>> Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.
>> 
>> WHat the hell has that got to do with HTML email?
> 
> The photo doesn't have to be included (as in attached)? with the email?

I'll repeat the question: what do attachments have to do with HTML emails?


-- 
Steven.




From grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 16:18:29 2005
From: grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 13:18:29 -0700
Subject: rrdtool?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.10.19.04.36.350250@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <pan.2005.10.10.19.04.36.350250@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1128975509.418396.232840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

By sheer coincidence I was looking into the same thing today. I just
downloaded the latest rrdtool release (rrdtool-1.2.11) and I noticed a
/bindings/python subdirectory. I haven't played with it yet, as I still
need to install tons of prerequisites before I can build rrdtool.

Grig



From christian.siegl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 12:45:18 2005
From: christian.siegl at gmail.com (christian.siegl at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 09:45:18 -0700
Subject: How to delete yourself????
In-Reply-To: <1129309450.534478.179670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129299904.130287.287680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129301105.048023.36430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129301853.032055.54010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129309450.534478.179670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129567518.494824.234040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well, this might be the best way, but my special case is programming a
GUI. And a (child) window receives a close event and wants to destroy
itself. The main window (parent) will never notice that (or its lots of
code and not very nice....). So that is the case and there is no way
that the parent deletes the child.

By the way, I am aware of the fact that I'm just deleting a reference.
But on deleting the last reference (and that's what I wanna do here)
the object will be destroyed........

chris



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 08:06:58 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:06:58 +1000
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130237717.557334.277910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.12.06.58.22949@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:55:17 -0700, Joerg Schuster wrote:

> No limitation at all would be best. If a limitation is necessary, then
> the more capturing groups, the better. At the time being, I would be
> really happy about having the possibility to use 10000 capturing
> groups.

Do you really think that the regular expression needed to do that would be
maintainable?

I'm also curious, what sort of usage case would need ten thousand
capturing groups? I'd love to see the performance, especially if all ten
thousand of them do backtracking.

-- 
Steven.



From iainking at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 04:15:53 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 01:15:53 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130314553.112864.233480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Iain King wrote:
>
> > Anyway, back to the OP: in this specific case, the cap of 100 groups in
> > a RE seems random to me, so I think the rule applies.
>
> perhaps in the "indistinguishable from magic" sense.
>
> if you want to know why 100 is a reasonable and non-random choice, I
> suggest checking the RE documentation for "99 groups" and the special
> meaning of group 0.
>
> </F>

Ah, doh!  Of course.  Oh well then...  still, doesn't python's RE
engine support named groups?  That would be cumbersome, but would allow
you to go above 100...



From usenet at DavidFilmer.com  Wed Oct 26 03:45:52 2005
From: usenet at DavidFilmer.com (usenet at DavidFilmer.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:45:52 -0700
Subject: a Haskell a Day
In-Reply-To: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130312752.238762.30360@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> I hope you will join me in learning Haskell.

I think the folks here are more interested in Perl. There's a reason
why this newsgroup is called lc("comp.lang.PERL.misc").



From leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam  Thu Oct 13 01:25:54 2005
From: leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam (Andy Leszczynski)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:25:54 -0500
Subject: TurboGears /.-ed, >new == True< or >new == "True"<
In-Reply-To: <slrndkp9a7.8jl.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
References: <v7ydnXDyJdoO6dHeRVn-rw@comcast.com>
	<slrndkp9a7.8jl.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <zpydnZSfBe3lctDenZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com>

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> Andy Leszczynski enlightened us with:
> 
>>should not it be:
>>
>>2 def save(self, pagename, data, submit, new):
>>3 hub.begin()
>>4 if new == True:
>>5     page = Page(pagename=pagename, data=data)
>>6 else:
>>7     page = Page.byPagename(pagename)
>>8     page.data = data
>>
>>instead of:
>>
>>4 if new == "True":
> 
> 
> No it should not. The values passed to the function are the strings
> passed by the GET request, hence all strings. There are methods of
> dealing with this - read the rest of the documentation.
> 
> Sybren

So how does it correspond to other piece of the code:

2	def notfound(self, pagename):
3	    return dict(pagename=pagename, data="", new=True)

new is a boolean here?

A.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct 28 04:44:17 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 08:44:17 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm3p71.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-26, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
>
> Adding complexity to cmp may not break code, but it could probably slow 
> down sorting in general.  So I would think what ever improvements or 
> alternatives needs to be careful not to slow down existing sorting cases.

As a result of Bengt's post, I rewrote my test program, this is the
program now.

from random import shuffle

from time import time

class UnequalValues(Exception):
  pass

__metaclass__ = type

class cla:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __cmp__(self, other):
    return self.value - other.value

class clb:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __lt__(self, other):
    return self.value < other.value

class clc:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __gt__(self, other):
    return self.value > other.value

class cld:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __comp__(self, other):
    return self.value - other.value

  def __lt__(self, other):
    return self.__comp__(other) < 0

class cle:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __comp__(self, other):
    return self.value - other.value

  def __lt__(self, other):
    try:
      return self.__comp__(other) < 0
    except UnequalValues:
      return False

def test(lng, rep):

  for cl in cla, clb, clc, cld, cle:
    total = 0.0
    for _ in xrange(rep):
      lst = [cl(i) for i in xrange(lng)]
      shuffle(lst)
      start = time()
      lst.sort()
      stop = time()
      total += stop - start
      for i in xrange(1,rep):
        assert lst[i - 1] < lst[i]
    print "%s: %d repeats, %d long, %9.6f secs" % (cl, rep, lng, total)

test(1000,1000)

---

These are the results.

<class '__main__.cla'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 10.061425 secs
<class '__main__.clb'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long,  9.544035 secs
<class '__main__.clc'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 10.450864 secs
<class '__main__.cld'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 15.566061 secs
<class '__main__.cle'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 15.776443 secs

Results on a longer sequence were:

<class '__main__.cla'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 146.722443 secs
<class '__main__.clb'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 139.480863 secs
<class '__main__.clc'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 152.623424 secs
<class '__main__.cld'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 224.630926 secs
<class '__main__.cle'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 228.663825 secs

The most interesting result of this test is the difference between
cld and cle. IMO this difference is an indication of the cost
that my idea would have on sorting, should it be implemented.
That would be around 2%. I think that is bearable. Especially
since this were very simple routines. The moment the comparison
calculation become heavier, the relative contribution of the
try: except will diminuish.

If you are concerned about sorting times, I think you should
be more concerned about Guido's idea of doing away with __cmp__.
Sure __lt__ is faster. But in a number of cases writing __cmp__
is of the same complexity as writing __lt__. So if you then
need a __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__ and __ge__ it
would be a lot easier to write a __cmp__ and have all rich
comparisons methods call this instead of duplicating the code
about six times. So you would be more or less forced to write
your class as class cld or cle. This would have a bigger
impact on sorting times than my suggestion.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From postmaster at ristretto4u.f9.co.uk  Mon Oct 10 07:36:12 2005
From: postmaster at ristretto4u.f9.co.uk (David Welch)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:36:12 +0100
Subject: Expression templates for arithmetic operations in python
Message-ID: <didjlj$pm6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

I am new to python so I thought I would write a quick and simple 
vector/matrix multiplication class in c++ and use it in python.

Is it possible to overload the operators in python such a way that a 
tree of calculations is built which I can then pass to an evaluator 
written in c++ to calculate the tree with max efficiency.

My thought train is that the args are passed to c++ only once and so 
there is less overhead in unpacking them.

Is there are an existing implementation in python which does this?

What is the best way to implement this?

Thanks for your help.

David



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct 20 08:18:57 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:18:57 -0500
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <20051020121857.GA17409@unpythonic.net>

In Unix, you generally can't affect the environment of your parent program (in
a broad sense, which includes environment variables, current working directory,
opened files, effective user ID, etc).

You have two basic choices to achieve an effect like this.  First, you can
start a subshell with the desired environment, something like (untested)
	os.environ['VARIABLE'] = 'value'
	os.system(os.environ['shell'])
(commands like 'su' work in this way)

Second, you can produce shell commands that have the effect of changing a
shell's environment when they are executed.  Something like:
	print "VARIABLE=value"
To use this, the user must write something like
	eval `myscript.py`
instead of just
	myscript.py
this can typically be encapsulated in a shell alias or function.
(commands like 'resize' (which sets the shell's idea of a terminal's size) work
this way)

Finally, you might be able to use an OS-specific interface like linux' ptrace
to change the actual contents of a calling process's memory.  I didn't
immediately find an example of this, but on Linux it would consist of using
PTRACE_PEEKDATA and PTRACE_POKEDATA to locate the environment in another
process and modify it.  The ptrace interface is not available from any standard
Python module, and isn't portable anyway. (though my manpage actually says
'CONFORMING TO SVr4, ..., X/OPEN, BSD 4.3' so maybe ptrace is more portable
than I believed)

Jeff
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From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Oct  5 17:51:06 2005
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 17:51:06 -0400
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>
	<di0rmd$uln$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
	<1128538344.802444@nntp.acecape.com>
	<mailman.1566.1128539624.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128541211.632803@nntp.acecape.com>
Message-ID: <uzmpn8wfp.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Mike <no at spam> writes:

> What you and I typed was ascii. The value of link came from importing
> that utf-8 web page into that variable.  That is why I think it is not
> working.  But not sure what the solution is.

Are you sure you're asking what you think you are asking?  Both the
ampersand character (&) and the characters within the ampersand entity
character reference (&amp;) are ASCII.  As it turns out they are also
legal UTF-8, but I would not call a web page UTF-8 just because I saw
the sequence of characters "&amp;" within the stream.  (That's not to
say it isn't UTF-8 encoded, just that I don't think that's the issue)

I'm just guessing, but you do realize that legal HTML should quote all
uses of the ampersand character with an entity reference, since the
ampersand itself is reserved for use in such references.  This
includes URL references whether inside attributes or in the body of
the text.

So when you see something in a browser in a web page that shows a URL
that includes "&" such as for separating parameters, internally that
page is (or should be) stored with "&amp;" for that character.  Thus
if you retrieve the page in code, that's what you'll find.  It's the
browser processing that entity reference that turns it back into the
"&" for presentation.

Note that whether or not the page in question is encoded as UTF-8 is a
completely distinct question - whatever encoding the page is in would
be used to encode the characters in the entity reference (namely
"&amp;").

I'm assuming that in scraping the page you want to reverse the process
(e.g., perform the interpretation of the entity references much as a
browser would) before using that URL for other purposes.  If so, the
string replacement you tried should handle the replacement just fine,
at least within the value of the URL as managed by your code.

You then mention it being the same when you view the contents of the
link, which isn't quite clear to me, but if that means retrieving
another copy of the link as embedded in an HTML page then yes, it'll
get quoted again since as initially, you have to quote an ampersand
as an entity reference within HTML.

What did you mean by "view the contents link"?

-- David



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 12 09:39:29 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:39:29 +0200
Subject: Very dumb question
Message-ID: <434D1211.6010903@designaproduct.biz>

I have a program with this code fragment:

    print len(data)
    print data[:50]
    raise SystemExit

This prints:

20381
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"

But if I change 50 to 51

    print len(data)
    print data[:51]
    raise SystemExit

then it prints

20381
 !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"

After all, only the last 50 bytes are printed. The string is the same 
(length 20381) in both cases.
Surprisingly, I can print more than 50 characters, this works:

print "012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789A"

I'm sure it is my mistake, but I don't know what am I doing wrong. Do 
you have an idea?
Thanks,

   Les



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 24 09:23:28 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:23:28 +0100
Subject: difference after remove
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510240602j4916a088s63f4fe34857943d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510240602j4916a088s63f4fe34857943d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djin8c$dd6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Shi Mu wrote:
> Is there any difference if I remove the '/'
                                            \
> from the following statement?
> intMatrix2 = [[1,1,2,4,1,7,1,7,6,9],\
>              [1,2,5,3,9,1,1,1,9,1],\
>              [0,0,5,1,1,1,9,7,7,7]]
> print intMatrix2
> I removed one '\' and it still works.
> So what is the use of '\'?

You only need line continuations if you aren't inside brackets, braces 
or parentheses. Inside these paired delimiters Python assumes you know 
what you are doing and will continue the statement or expression on the 
next line.

  >>> print "This is a continued"\
  ...       " statement"
This is a continued statement
  >>>

Note that Python *knew* the statement was complete at the end of the 
second line.

Inside an extended string literal (""" or ''') it has the effect of 
removing the newline that would otherwise appear in the string.

  >>> print repr("""This string has a
  ... newline in it""")
'This string has a\nnewline in it'
  >>> print repr("""There is no \
  ... newline in this string""")
'There is no newline in this string'
  >>>

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 07:10:18 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:10:18 +0300
Subject: select.select() on windows
In-Reply-To: <li6vl1htgl7tcmq9j4f5a0ljdr3qio6qcc@4ax.com>
References: <1130249197.810665.272520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djnepb$31a1$1@news.tsua.net>
	<li6vl1htgl7tcmq9j4f5a0ljdr3qio6qcc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqcjm$qkb$1@news.tsua.net>


yes, i missed, sorry

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:29:17 +0300, Maksim Kasimov
> <maksim.kasimov at gmail.com> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> 
>>you have to use non-block readining.
>>
>>http://docs.python.org/lib/module-select.html:
>>A time-out value of zero specifies a poll and never blocks.
>>
> 
> 	Did you miss the subject line... "... on windows"? select() only
> works with sockets on windows, not on regular file streams.


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From http  Tue Oct  4 14:47:17 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 11:47:17 -0700
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
References: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xpsql9l1m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Amir  Michail" <amichail at gmail.com> writes:
> Is there an easy way to execute a python cgi script on a different
> machine from the cgi server?

What exactly do you mean by that?  You can set a form target to
another machine, if that's what you mean.


From lbolognini at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 18:49:12 2005
From: lbolognini at gmail.com (lbolognini at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 15:49:12 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of  **kwargs to variables
Message-ID: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I have a very long list of parameters coming from a web form to my
method foo(self, **kwargs)

I would like to avoid manually binding the variables to the values
coming through the **kwargs dictionary, just to keep the code cleaner,
I'd like to bind them automatically

I was adviced against doing it by adding stuff to locals such as:

locals()["x"] = 5

since the Python Docs say:

Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not be modified;
changes may not affect the values of local variables used by the
interpreter.

Is there a way to do this? Maybe object.__setattr__() or something that
involves metaclasses?

As I might go touching something that I shouldn't (like locals()) I'd
like some advice from you before deciding which way to go.


Thanks,
Lorenzo



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sat Oct  1 04:02:16 2005
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:02:16 +0200
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
In-Reply-To: <6CF2AADA-3E79-4535-B61A-9FE06AC1B6E1@ihug.co.nz>
References: <2773CAC687FD5F4689F526998C7E4E5F4DB681@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
	<77498FFE-AEC3-4148-A113-E434EE4A4E52@ihug.co.nz>
	<200509292042.36051.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<43D1E0B3-6A3B-442E-9BDE-6DBC1A2466A7@ihug.co.nz>
	<20050930105646.GA17540@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>
	<6CF2AADA-3E79-4535-B61A-9FE06AC1B6E1@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20051001080216.GA2379@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>

Tony Meyer wrote:
> X-Spambayes-Classification: ham; 0.008
> 
> On 30/09/2005, at 10:56 PM, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> > Tony Meyer wrote:
> >> X-Spambayes-Classification: ham; 0.048
> 
> Unless I'm misreading things, that's *my* message that scored 0.048  
> (the "from:addr:ihug.co.nz", "from:name:tony meyer", and "spambayes"  
> tokens make it seem that way)...

It is, and that's very surprising, but apparantly it was not really
hammy enough. But don't worry, by ham_cutoff is 0.2, and out of the 10
'unsure' messages per week, 2 are spam, 2 are ham, and 6 are, well,
unsure. Note that with all my mailinglists, the number of messages
handled is more than 2500 per week, so I'm very, very happy with
spambayes...

Gerrit.

-- 
Temperature in Lule?, Norrbotten, Sweden:
| Current temperature   05-10-01 09:49:52    9.7 degrees Celsius ( 49.5F) |
-- 
Det finns inte d?ligt v?der, bara d?liga kl?der.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 22 09:24:40 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:24:40 +0200
Subject: Help with language, dev tool selection
References: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djdeir$kfa$1@sea.gmane.org>

vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com wrote:

> I have a flat text file, 30000 records, each record has two columns,
> the columns are tab separated.
>
> The file looks like this (approximately)
>
> Sarajevo 431104-133111

(when did they move sarajevo to italy?)

> Mostar 441242-133421
> Zagreb 432322-134423

here's a straightforward Python solution:

    HEADER = "This page displays longitude-latitude information"
    SUBHEADER = "Grad"

    for line in open("datafile.txt"):

        town, latlong = line.split()
        lat, long = latlong.split("-")

        f = open(town + ".html", "w")
        f.write(HEADER + "\n")
        f.write(SUBHEADER + "\n")
        f.write(town + "\n")
        f.write(long + " " + lat + "\n")
        f.close()

    # end

tweak as necessary.  see the Python tutorial for help:

    http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html

</F>





From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct 22 23:59:10 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:59:10 GMT
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.23.00.36.28.678699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.48.00.137827@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Gmy6f.208600$p_1.49655@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.00.36.28.678699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <iUD6f.209139$p_1.33935@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:41:58 +0000, Ron Adam wrote:
> 
> 
>>Don't forget a string can be sliced.  In this case testing before you 
>>leap is a win.   ;-)
> 
> 
> Not much of a win: only a factor of two, and unlikely to hold in all
> cases. Imagine trying it on *really long* strings with the first space
> close to the far end: the split-and-join algorithm has to walk the string
> once, while your test-then-index algorithm has to walk it twice.
> 
> So for a mere factor of two benefit on short strings, I'd vote for the
> less complex split-and-join version, although it is just a matter of
> personal preference.
> 

Guess again...  Is this the results below what you were expecting?

Notice the join adds a space to the end if the source string is a single 
word.  But I allowed for that by adding one in the same case for the 
index method.

The big win I was talking about was when no spaces are in the string. 
The index can then just return the replacement.

These are relative percentages of time to each other.  Smaller is better.

Type 1 = no spaces
Type 2 = space at 10% of length
Type 3 = space at 90% of length

Type: Length

Type 1: 10        split/join: 317.38%  index: 31.51%
Type 2: 10        split/join: 212.02%  index: 47.17%
Type 3: 10        split/join: 186.33%  index: 53.67%
Type 1: 100       split/join: 581.75%  index: 17.19%
Type 2: 100       split/join: 306.25%  index: 32.65%
Type 3: 100       split/join: 238.81%  index: 41.87%
Type 1: 1000      split/join: 1909.40%  index: 5.24%
Type 2: 1000      split/join: 892.02%  index: 11.21%
Type 3: 1000      split/join: 515.44%  index: 19.40%
Type 1: 10000     split/join: 3390.22%  index: 2.95%
Type 2: 10000     split/join: 2263.21%  index: 4.42%
Type 3: 10000     split/join: 650.30%  index: 15.38%
Type 1: 100000    split/join: 3342.08%  index: 2.99%
Type 2: 100000    split/join: 1175.51%  index: 8.51%
Type 3: 100000    split/join: 677.77%  index: 14.75%
Type 1: 1000000   split/join: 3159.27%  index: 3.17%
Type 2: 1000000   split/join: 867.39%  index: 11.53%
Type 3: 1000000   split/join: 679.47%  index: 14.72%




import time
def test(func, source):
     t = time.clock()
     n = 6000000/len(source)
     s = ''
     for i in xrange(n):
         s = func(source, "replace")
     tt = time.clock()-t
     return s, tt

def replace_word1(source, newword):
     """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
     return newword + " " + " ".join(source.split(None, 1)[1:])

def replace_word2(source, newword):
     """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
     if ' ' in source:
         return newword + source[source.index(' '):]
     return newword + ' '   # space needed to match join results


def makestrings(n):
     s1 = 'abcdefghij' * (n//10)
     i, j = n//10, n-n//10
     s2 = s1[:i] + ' ' + s1[i:] + 'd.'    # space near front
     s3 = s1[:j] + ' ' + s1[j:] + 'd.'    # space near end
     return [s1,s2,s3]

for n in [10,100,1000,10000,100000,1000000]:
     for sn,s in enumerate(makestrings(n)):
         r1, t1 = test(replace_word1, s)
         r2, t2 = test(replace_word2, s)
         assert r1 == r2
         print "Type %i: %-8i  split/join: %.2f%%  index: %.2f%%" \
                % (sn+1, n, t1/t2*100.0, t2/t1*100.0)











From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 22 19:10:24 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:24 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02 at 4ax.com...

> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:47:27 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>> There is no way Microsoft could have expected the
>>market to be defined in this way and no way to argue that Microsoft had 
>>any
>>reason to believe their conduct was illegal.

> If what they did to me in the 90s was not illegal it damn well should
> have been.

    If the deal didn't give you more than it cost you, all you had to do was 
say 'no'. I understand the frustration at being forced to pay for something 
what it is worth.

    DS




From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct  5 16:53:14 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:53:14 -0500
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
In-Reply-To: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43443D3A.4040704@websafe.com>

1) Start a command prompt window
   (Start-Programs-Accessories-Command Prompt)
2) Change to directory where the python program is stored
   (cd \<path-where-script-stored>)
3) Type python myscript.py myarg

-Larry Bates


k8 wrote:
> Hello-
> 
> I'm stuck on a Windows machine today and would love to fully play with
> and test a simple python script.  I want to be able to type "python
> myscript myarg" somewhere.  Is there anything out there to help me?  My
> main concern is playing with the myarg in the sys.argv list.  I've been
> mucking around with IDLE without much success.
> 


From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sun Oct 30 20:37:18 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:37:18 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2705.1130622374.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130637600.659212.66140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-6B0995.20371830102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1130637600.659212.66140 at g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 netvaibhav at gmail.com wrote:

> Steve Holden wrote:
> > Indeed, but reading one byte at a time is about the slowest way to
> > process a file, in Python or any other language, because it fails to
> > amortize the overhead cost of function calls over many characters.
> >
> > Buffering wasn't invented because early programmers had nothing better
> > to occupy their minds, remember :-)
> 
> Buffer, and then read one byte at a time from the buffer.

Have you mesured it?

#!/usr/bin/python
'''Time some file scanning.
'''

import sys, time

f = open(sys.argv[1])
t = time.time()
while True:
    b = f.read(256*1024)
    if not b:
        break
print 'initial read', time.time() - t
f.close()

f = open(sys.argv[1])
t = time.time()
while True:
    b = f.read(256*1024)
    if not b:
        break
print 'second read', time.time() - t
f.close()

if 1:
    f = open(sys.argv[1])
    t = time.time()
    while True:
        b = f.read(256*1024)
        if not b:
            break
        for c in b:
            pass
    print 'third chars', time.time() - t
    f.close()

f = open(sys.argv[1])
t = time.time()
n = 0
srch = '\x00\x00\x01\x00'
laplen = len(srch)-1
lap = ''
while True:
    b = f.read(256*1024)
    if not b:
        break
    n += (lap+b[:laplen]).count(srch)
    n += b.count(srch)
    lap = b[-laplen:]
print 'fourth scan', time.time() - t, n
f.close()


On my (old) system, with a 512 MB file so it won't all buffer, the 
second time I get:

initial read 14.513395071
second read 14.8771388531
third chars 178.250257969
fourth scan 26.1602909565 1
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 08:30:24 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:30:24 -0700
Subject: Print in PythonWin
Message-ID: <1d987df30510240530nfd07d47mf3ec2831891ac9e7@mail.gmail.com>

In the PythonWin's interactive window,
why sometimes I need type the command two times to make it work?
for example, I execute "print testList" two times to make it work.
Why?
>>> print testList
>>> print testList
['w', 'e', ' ', 'w', 'a', 'n', 't', ' ', 't', 'o', ' ', 'l', 'e', 'a',
'r', 'n', ' ', 'p', 'y', 't', 'h', 'o', 'n']


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Sat Oct 15 00:03:59 2005
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:03:59 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl0vtf.481.tim@vegeta.saiyix>

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.perl.misc.]

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
> "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote or quoted :
> > Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs.
> > If that's not monopoly, i don't know what is.
> 
> They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are
> evil, not because they have a large market share.

Mr. Lee is a troll.  And an increasingly obscene one.

I think his mother didn't pay him enough attention.
Perhaps she locked him in the basement... and he never left?

IAC, I've had enough.  I don't killfile many people...  but Mr.
Lee seems to have gone above and beyond.  His arguments are
nothing but incendiary, and he doesn't even know Perl well
enough to bash it as he does.

*plonk*

Tim


From lycka at carmen.se  Mon Oct 17 09:45:12 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:45:12 +0200
Subject: Profiling results
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2036.1129244692.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2036.1129244692.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dj09t8$i67$1@wake.carmen.se>

Dave wrote:
> I'm trying to profile a Python program using gprof,

I don't think you will learn anything meaningful about
a Python program from gprof. Use the profiling tools
in Python. http://docs.python.org/lib/profile.html


From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM  Wed Oct 12 05:21:05 2005
From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper H.S. Dik)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 09:21:05 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.11.22.24.49.911502@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <434cd581$0$11068$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:

>On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:27:30 +0000, axel wrote:

>> I don't know how much spam other people receive but on one account I
>> hardly receive any as I reserve it for friends and business. On another
>> I had about 40 spam messages which took all of ten seconds to delete.
>> Hardly a serious matter.

>Can I remind you that spam is approximately 70% of all email traffic these
>days? Most of that is blocked by the ISPs, but even so you are obviously
>one of the lucky few.

95% - 99% of all email, not 70% (just ask your ISP).

A large percentage of the cost of email is the cost of getting
rid of SPAM; and that cannot happen without colleteral damage in the
form of lost valid email, not just because of improper filtering but
also because the more layers are there to touch the email the bigger
the chances that it does not arrive.

>My work email address, on the other hand, is another story. We run a two
>layer defence: blocking blacklisted addresses at our mail server, and spam
>assassin at the individual user level. Even with that, I get about 100
>spams a day delivered into my inbox, although many of those are addressed
>to generic email addresses which are automatically forwarded to me.

Same here: Sun probably tosses 99% of the email directed at me, yet
I get well over 100 spams/day.

Casper
-- 
Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 27 22:31:03 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:31:03 GMT
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<867jbyit7b.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <43618c43.1143739260@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:46:32 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

>"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> How can I replace all None values with the string 'Null' in a
>> dictionary?
>
>Iterate over everything in the dictionary:
>
>for key, item in mydict.items():
>    if item is None:
>       mydict[key] = 'Null'
>
Which is probably more efficient than one-liner updating the dict with

    mydict.update((k,'Null') for k,v in mydict.items() if v is None)

as in

 >>> mydict = dict(a=1, b=None, c=3, d=None, e=5)
 >>> mydict
 {'a': 1, 'c': 3, 'b': None, 'e': 5, 'd': None}
 >>> mydict.update((k,'Null') for k,v in mydict.items() if v is None)
 >>> mydict
 {'a': 1, 'c': 3, 'b': 'Null', 'e': 5, 'd': 'Null'}
 
(too lazy to measure ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 31 18:16:51 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:16:51 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<867jbt2xyb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk64nk$dp0$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<863bmh2t7x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dk68l4$f8t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:863bmh2t7x.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>>> I'm trying to find out why you regularly ignore that difference for
>>> everyone but MS.
>>     To substantiate that claim, you'd have to point to some cases where I
>> talk about something other than MS.

> You do that *every time* someone compares MS with other criminals -
> you immediately refer to "criminals with guns" and refuse to discuss
> the issue further. And yes, you've already claimed that you only do
> that when the other reference is to "actual use of force", and I've
> already disproved that.

    You have not disproved that. The closest you've come to a disproof is 
one case where the word "theft" was used (while earlier in the thread, 
actual physical force had been used, but not in that specific spot) where 
the context strongly suggested that it meant theft by force.

    You are correct that it is possible to steal something without actually 
using physical force. But that's not an important difference. The hugely 
important difference, and the one that you and others *are* seeking to 
obliterate, is the difference between inherently unjust actions such as 
force and fraud and actions that are neither forceful nor fraudulent.

>> But if you do a little research, you'll find I'm completely
>> consistent and have said similar things about numerour other
>> entities.

> Not in this thread, you haven't.

    Well duh, this thread is about Microsoft.

> The only consistency here has been
> trying to treat MS's crimes as somehow different from other peoples
> crimes.

    That's because the only crimes that have come up in this thread are 
Microsoft's crimes (that don't involve force or fraud) and other crimes 
(such as theft, threats of force, and the like) which do. Duh.

> I'm still waiting for you to quit trying to lie (or, as you
> would say, "argue") your way out of it, and come up with a reason for
> this behavior other than doing so at MS's orders.

    The reason is that there is a huge difference between crimes that 
involve force or fraud and crimes that don't involve any force or fraud. 
Theft, threats of force, and the like are in a totally different category 
from purely consensual crimes such as the ones Microsoft was accused of.

    There were a few narrow cases where Microsoft was actually accused of 
actions that I do consider force or fraud. And had Microsoft been convicted 
for *those* actions (rather than metaphorical use of "market force"), then I 
would not be defending them. I don't defend them of those charges, which 
would have been (and is) equally wrong for a monopolist or a non-monopolist.

    DS




From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 26 10:55:19 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:55:19 -0000
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <11lv66njrkkln8b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-26, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> James Stroud wrote:
>> On Tuesday 25 October 2005 00:31, Duncan Booth wrote:
>>> P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting
>> 
>> Were it not for Steve Holden's providing me with a link off the list,
>> I would have never known to what it is you are referring. I have read
>> some relevant literature to find that this is more widely known as
>> "top-posting". I'll go with majority rules here, but I would like to
>> say that my lack of "netiquette" in this matter comes from
>> practicality and not malice.
>
> No, I didn't think it was malice which is why I just added what I 
> considered to be a polite request at the end of my message. I assumed that 
> most people either knew the phrase or could find out in a few seconds using 
> Google so there wasn't much point in rehashing the arguments. Probably I 
> should have equally lambasted Ron for the heinous crime of bottom-quoting. 
>
> In general, there are three ways to quote a message: top-quoting, which 
> forces people to read the message out of order;

Uh, no.  Isn't what we're doing here top-quoting?  The quoted
stuff is at the top. Everything is in chronological order.  I
think what you're referring to is "top-posting".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... If I had heart
                                  at               failure right now,
                               visi.com            I couldn't be a more
                                                   fortunate man!!


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Mon Oct 10 12:23:39 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:23:39 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1814.1128913923.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1814.1128913923.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434a9531$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

You might try a "take over" mode -- starting another copy gets to the
point it looks to listen for UDP, the (if the listening fails), tells
the other process to die over UDP, taking over then.  This scheme would
would reduce your "time-to-switch" to a much shorter window.  Whenever
given the shutdown signal, you could turn on the "watcher sleeping"
light.  The remaining issue, replacing hardware or OS (possibly due to
failure) probably changes the UDP address.  That might be trickier.  I
certainly feel happier when I can do a hand-off to another box, but it
sounds like you might need the instruments to broadcast or multicast
to get to that happy place.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 22:28:21 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 19:28:21 -0700
Subject: Print to printer
References: <1130528702.908172.189990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130552901.655182.203330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

You should be more specific. What do you want to print? Text, images,
...
If you want a cross platform solution you could use wxPython:
http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/docbrowse.cgi/wxwin_printingoverview.html#printingoverview

For text you could use wxHtmlEasyPrinting:
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/Printing

For mac solutions, you better post this on the pythonmac mailing list.

Stani
--
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Fri Oct  7 16:55:40 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:55:40 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128643441.765008.264750@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051007225540.7fadb903@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

Thanks, but what is really difficult is not to understand how to design
the program which solve a specific problem but to design a generic
framework for solving all these kinds of problem. And in a simple enough
way for basic programmers (but good scientists !) to handle it.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6 Oct 2005 17:04:01 -0700, "hrh1818" <howardrh at westerncom.net> wrote
:

> A good starting point is the book "Python Scripting for Computational
> Science" by Hans Petter Langtangen.  The book covers topics that go
> from simulating second order mechanical systems to solving partial
> differentail equations.
> 
> Howard
> 
> Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking for any work/paper/ressource about continuous system
> > simulation using Python or any similar object oriented languages (or
> > even UML theory !).
> >
> > I'm aware of SimPy for discrete event simulation, but I haven't
> > found any work about continuous system.
> > I would like to develop a generic continous system simulator, and so
> > would be eager to join any open source effort on the subject.
> >
> > For instance, it would be useful for modelling an airplane with all
> > the dynamics (flight simulator).
> >
> > Python is my language of choice because of the keyword 'generic'.
> > Being an object oriented dynamic language, it's perfect for such a
> > task. Unfortunately I'm a novice when it comes to object oriented
> > design and development, so I would prefer to start from something
> > already existent instead of starting from scratch.
> >
> > If you had any idea on the subject, I would be really glad to
> > discuss it with you.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance,
> > 
> > P.S. : for email, replace nowhere by yahoo
> 


From jelleferinga at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 04:46:10 2005
From: jelleferinga at gmail.com (jelle)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 01:46:10 -0700
Subject: Should i pick up Numeric, Numarray or SciPy.core?
Message-ID: <1129884370.881194.20420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

#No rant intended

I'm not at all confused wether I should learn an one of the advanced
array modules, I'm slightly confused over which I should pick up. I'm
impressed with the efforts of SciPy and Scientific, but since I'm
fairly new to programming & OO, choosing Numarray over Numeric hasnt
been that satisfactory at all, which is not a problem of the quality of
Numarray, but the fact that a lot of modules still heavily realy on
Numeric. Which, with my fragile knowledge in programming is rather
confusing sometimes. Since its seems its far from pragmatic to opt
solely for either one of them. So Scipy.core looks like the ticket for
me here, doesnt it? Before putting an effort into it, I'd like to know
whether this would make sense, certainly since scipy.core is in its
early stages, and documentation isnt available yet (for free that is...
its not clear to me why I should pay for software in its early stages,
when it extents on efforts freely available)

Curious for your opinions, I definitely think the Scipy.core effort is
terrific, but right now I'm wondering whether its a pragmatic choice.

-Jelle



From iddw at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 13 17:02:19 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:02:19 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<wzzmpf80cj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<1129129852.92dc41cf1bd445c448e00bd42ec59500@teranews>
	<wzek6pxkn8.fsf@ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <1129237343.f9f0866203b462304281d6e31bb39067@teranews>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:49:15 +0200, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
wrote:

>>>>>> iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) (DH) wrote:
>
>>DH> So lose the "if."
>
>>DH>    R = C then A else B
>
>>DH> I don't think python uses the question mark for anything.  Throw that
>>DH> in, if it makes parsing easier:
>
>>DH>    R = C ? then A else B
>
>We have already had this discussion several times. I don't think it is
>going to add anything new to it. Besides after the BDFL has decided it is
>useless. 

Oh, agreed, most assuredly (except that "we" didn't include "me," not
that that would have made any difference, but I missed most of the
discussion).  I was merely responding to your assertion that using "if
C then A else B" could cause parsing problems.

I'm not convinced python even needs a ternary operator.  I just wish
the syntax chosen by the BDFL made more sense.  Even if I don't use
it, I'll likely have to read it...

Regards,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From felix at keyremovethisghost.com  Wed Oct 19 22:43:58 2005
From: felix at keyremovethisghost.com (Felix Collins)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:43:58 +1300
Subject: Trouble with win32com and MS Project
Message-ID: <PvD5f.1507$S24.103329@news.xtra.co.nz>

Hi,

I'm trying to assign a resource to a task in MS Project by using the 
example from MSDN for VB...


"Use the Add method to add an Assignment object to the Assignments 
collection. The following example adds a resource identified by the 
number of 212 as a new assignment for the specified task.

ActiveProject.Tasks(1).Assignments.Add ResourceID:=212"

My code fragment for Python...

proj.Tasks(3).Assignments.Add(ResourceID=2)

but this doesn't work.  I get...

Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None, 'The argument value 
is not valid.', 'D:\\Program Files\\Microsoft 
Office\\OFFICE11\\VBAPJ.CHM', 131074, -2146827187), None)


Anyone got any ideas about how to attack this?

Cheers,
Felix


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 10 11:00:42 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:00:42 +1000
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.10.15.00.42.206737@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:34:35 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:

> Sorting the two lists and then extracting
> A-B, B-A, A|B, A & B and A ^ B in one single
> pass seems to me very likely to be much faster
> for large lists.

Unless you are running a Python compiler in your head, chances are your
intuition has no connection to the actual performance of Python except by
pure coincidence.

Write some code, and time it in action.

In fact, here is some code I've written for you, complete with timer. Do
yourself a favour, and run it and see for yourself which is faster.

Then, if you think you can write a list version that is more efficient
than my (admittedly very inefficient) version, please do so. Then time the
difference again. Then think about how much time it took you to write,
test and debug your list version, compared to my four lines using sets.


from sets import Set
import time

def compare_and_separate(A, B):
    only_A = []
    only_B = []
    both_AB = []
    for item in A:
        # ignore items we've already seen before
        if item in only_A or item in both_AB:
            continue
        if item in B:
            both_AB.append(item)
        else:
            only_A.append(item)
    for item in B:
        # ignore items we've already seen before
        if item in only_B or item in both_AB:
            continue
        only_B.append(item)
    return (only_A, only_B, both_AB)

def compare_and_separate_with_sets(A, B):
    only_A = list(Set(A)-Set(B))
    only_B = list(Set(B)-Set(A))
    both_AB = list(Set(A+B) - Set(only_A+only_B))
    return (only_A, only_B, both_AB)

A = range(199) + range(44, 300, 3) + range(250, 500) + range(2000, 2100)
B = range(1000) + range(3000, 4000)

def tester():
    # confirm that the two functions give the same results
    r1 = compare_and_separate(range(5), range(3,8)) 
    r2 = compare_and_separate_with_sets(range(5), range(3,8))
    print r1
    print r2
    if r1 == r2:
        print "  Same."
    else:
        print "  Warning: results are different."
    loopit = range(20)  # repeat the test 20 times for timing purposes
    t1 = time.time()
    for i in loopit:
        results = compare_and_separate(A, B)
    t1 = time.time() - t1
    t2 = time.time()
    for i in loopit:
        results = compare_and_separate_with_sets(A, B)
    t2 = time.time() - t2
    print "Time with loops:", t1
    print "Time with sets:", t2



-- 
Steven.



From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Oct 19 01:00:50 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 22:00:50 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <1129685728.880635.128930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129685728.880635.128930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129698050.381751.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> Xah Lee, on Aug 22, 2:43 pm wrote:
> Unix, RFC, and Line Truncation
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/truncate_line.html

Steve wrote:
> I've seen this argument before.  There's at least one VERY good reason
> to hard-code linebreaks in text:  to preserve a covert channel.  It's
> really easy to structure plain text in such a way to include super
> sekret messages that can only be properly decoded when the original
> formatting of the text is preserved.  Assuming that all of us are
> agreed that plain text is the correct lowest-common denominator in
> email and Usenet communications, it makes sense to allow for additional
> personal expression by way of enabling users to encode additional
> information in the formatting of their messages.

Rethink what you are saying. You'll see that what you propose as
reasons for one, is actually for the other.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 10:19:52 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:19:52 +0100
Subject: how to(can we ?) pass argument to .py script ?
In-Reply-To: <1129039664.425406.265670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129039664.425406.265670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510110719k55e8994fr@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 Oct 2005 07:07:44 -0700, quiteblack at gmail.com
<quiteblack at gmail.com> wrote:
> i wrote a .py file and it works fine, my goal is to pass argument to
> that py file when it get executed, and accept that argument within py
> file, eg. i prefer a command like below:
>
> python test.py -t
>
> and then, i may get "-t" within test.py for later use.
>
> i have no ideas how to do and i'm really stuck, can anyone help ?

Short answer:

import sys
print sys.argv

You might also want to take to butchers at the optparse module.

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 07:04:20 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:04:20 +1000
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128676408.129888.297840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-615D28.06010007102005@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.07.11.04.20.643479@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:01:00 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

> There's more to it than just that.  Python's type checking is not just not 
> done at compile time, it's done as late in run time as possible.  One might 
> call it just-in-time type checking.

Well there you go then. Instead of pulling our hair out that Python has no
type checking ("that's a bug in the language design, woe woe woe!!!") we
can just say that Python does JIT type checking, which not only is a
feature, but also satisfies the Pointy Haired Bosses who demand buzzwords
they can't understand.

-- 
Steven.



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct  8 23:08:04 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:08:04 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86ll13mlpn.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> I read mail over an ssh connection to a Unix shell.  I have no easy
> way to read html email with a graphics browser.

You don't need a grahics browser - you just need a browser. I read
mail in emacs, and use emacs-w3m to view html in the mailer. Works for
most things, and doesn't have the nasty side effect of letting the
sender know I read it by fetching images from their web site.

> I occasionally get html email that I want to read.  I save it in a
> file and read it with lynx, which so far works perfectly well.  I
> find html email to be a PITA and as someone else said, html in email
> is an almost sure sign that it's a message that I want to trash
> without reading it.

Unfortunately, I've found that HTML email comes in two flavors: That
which sets content-type to text/html in the headers, and that which
sets it to some form of multipart in the headers. I used to bounce all
mail of either form. Then I discovered that the AOL client - used by
my relatives - could *not* be set to not send HTML email. At least it
sends text/plain as well. On investigation, most legit email does
sends multipart/mixed, so I only reject mail whose sole content is
text/html.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 17 04:09:49 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:09:49 +0200
Subject: graphic memory & animation
References: <009d01c5d2f0$3c634590$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>
Message-ID: <divm8e$pgc$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Peres" wrote:

> Slow means more than 20ms to erase the screen. After double buffering it
> improved a lot , of course (16 ms) but I'll need a faster speed.

are you measuring the time it takes to go from a populated screen to a blank
screen?  if so, you're probably seeing the screen refresh time (16 ms = 60 fps)
rather than the time it takes to draw things.

try disabling vertical sync in your display driver to see if that fixes the problem

(if you do things the right way, you shouldn't have to do that: you should clear/copy
and draw the new screen before you flip the buffers)

</F> 





From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 04:44:23 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 01:44:23 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <1130231775.770582.199690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<djks4r$pth$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130231775.770582.199690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130316263.790812.13440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

My first test program was far too naive. Evil things do happen. Simply
removing the code that restricts the number of capturing groups to 100
is not a solitution.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 03:15:15 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 07:15:15 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndjpo62.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1237.1128066762.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndjpvs2.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1251.1128076897.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk1mk3.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-09-30, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-09-30, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
>> 
>>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>>Op 2005-09-29, Bill Mill schreef <bill.mill at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>But, if your users can't figure out that they shouldn't be changing
>>>>>the variable called t._test__i without expecting side effects, what do
>>>>>you think of the users of your class?
>>>>>
>>>>>Python is for consenting adults.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No it is not. Consenting means you had the choice. Python doesn't
>>>>give you the choice not to consent. Unless of course you write
>>>>it as a C-extension, then you can hide all you want.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Good grief, the ultimate choice is to use Python because you like it, or 
>>>not to use it because you don't. Enough with the picking every available 
>>>nit, please. Consent or stop complaining :-)
>> 
>> 
>> This is IMO not a nit. IMO people are redefining words. We are also
>> talking within a certain context. When people use this slogan, they
>> don't mean that people have the choice to not use python.
>> 
> Quite true, but people do none the less have that choice. Some days I 
> wish a few more would exercise it.

Yes they have that choice and the problem is that if too many make that
choice, python wouldn't evolve. A lot of progress python made, is
because people who didn't like some aspects of it, discussed them and
either implemeted a change themselves or got someone else interested
enough to implement a change.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From codecraig at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 09:47:06 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:47:06 -0700
Subject: When to free memory for C wrapper?
In-Reply-To: <1129210809.038807.122340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129210809.038807.122340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129211226.780676.294760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

One other thing, I was reading about Py_DECREF...and I see it says

"A safe approach is to always use the generic operations (functions
whose name begins with "PyObject_", "PyNumber_", "PySequence_" or
"PyMapping_"). These operations always increment the reference count of
the object they return. This leaves the caller with the responsibility
to call Py_DECREF() when they are done with the result; this soon
becomes second nature."
URL: http://www.python.org/doc/api/refcounts.html

So does that mean before my C wrapper function exits, or returns I
should Py_DECREF any PyObject's I have?  For example, in my previous
post in this thread..I would have to Py_DECREF(data) right?

What if in my wrapper I had

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(...) {
    PyObject *pyResult;

    ...

    pyResult = PyString_FromString(...);

   return pyResult;
}

Is PyResult going to be de-referenced or handled automaticlly by python
in some way?  Or, do I need to somehow call Py_DECREF(pyResult)
somewhere..if so, where/when?

Thanks!

Java and Swing wrote:
> I have been posting lately about writing a C wrapper so Python can
> access my C functions.
>
> In my wrapper function I have something like...
>
> static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
>     PyObject *data;
>     char *result;
>     long *d;
>
>     PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O:wrap_doStuff", &data);
>
>     d = get_long_array(data);
>
>     result = doStuff(d);
>
>     return PyString_FromString(result);
> }
>
> Now, do I need to use PyMem_Free to free up the "PyObject *data"?
> 
> Thanks.



From jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk  Fri Oct 14 08:46:58 2005
From: jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk (Jim O'D)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:46:58 +0100
Subject: my array subset method could be improved?
Message-ID: <dio954$4a1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Hi all

I have an array a=array([2,3,1]).

I want to extract an array with all the elements of a that are less than 0.

Method 1.
new = array([i for i in a if i < 0])

Method 2.
new = a[nonzero(a<0)]

I'm using Numeric arrays but can't seem to find a function that does this.

Am I missing a more obvious way to do it quickly?

Thanks

Jim


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 30 20:36:31 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:36:31 +0000
Subject: learning emacs lisp
In-Reply-To: <1130698078.823822.223300@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130241817.688203.320540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<85br1dydvn.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>	<1130246810.318934.123570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1130267274.057695.116050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130698078.823822.223300@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk3sev$ov8$1@sea.gmane.org>

[To new readers:

please ignore the rantings of this unbalanced person, who is well known 
for posing inappropriate and inflammatory material on news groups and 
mailing lists of all kinds.]

Xah Lee wrote:
> well, in the past couple of days i started my own:
> http://xahlee.org/emacs/notes.html
> 
> but i'm sure something like it exists.
> 
> Btw, the elisp intro by
> Robert J Chassell. At:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/
> is extremely well written.
> (and so is the elisp reference)
> 
> Bravo to GNU & Freesoftware Foundation once again. Thank you.
> 
> PS Fuck unix and unix fuckheads. Fuck asshole Larry Wall. Fuck Python
> documenation community and their fucking ass lying thru their teeth
> ignorance fucking shit. (See:
>  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/gubni_papri.html)
> 
> Disclaimer: all mention of real person are opinion only.
> 
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> rgb wrote:
> 
>>>i'm looking for something example based... for senior professional
>>>programers who may want to pickup some elisp for practical macro.
>>
>>Unfortunately the path from any given language to Elisp varies vastly.
>>For example a Prolog programmer would need far fewer tips than a Cobol
>>or even a C programmer.  It's unlikely you will find something
>>tailored to your specific experience.
>>
>>I'd already written programs in well over 100 languages in the 20
>>years before learning Elisp yet I didn't find the intro terribly
>>tedious until around section 13 (Counting).  At that point it switches
>>focus toward examples of creating functions rather than introducing
>>syntax and available features.  Perhaps starting at section 12 would
>>suit your learning style better.
>>
>>As you probably realize, the language itself is just syntax and the
>>hard part is learning about all the facilities at your disposal once
>>you decide to write something.  There are a lot of features available
>>and, although daunting, I think the reference is the best resource
>>for discovering them.
>>
>>This group has also been indispensable to me.
> 
> 


-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From timb at tbitc.com  Mon Oct 17 03:24:45 2005
From: timb at tbitc.com (Tim)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:54:45 +0930
Subject: How do you draw this layout with wxpython?
In-Reply-To: <1129531620.723991.53140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129531620.723991.53140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435351b1@duster.adelaide.on.net>

Young H. Rhiu wrote:
> See: http://hilug.org/img/app_layout.GIF
> 
> I'm implementing an album-like application with wxpython but I'm new to
> wxPython though I know how to program with python. The problem is that
> it's not easy for me to deal with drawing layout stuff with wxpython.
> What layout I'm thinking of looks like the gif image above.
> 
> The application is about saving some comments for each pictures on the
> filesystem. There are two windows. The above one is a window for
> loading some images and the below one is a TextCtrl for writing
> comments and if img1, for instance, is clicked, the first notebook(?)
> folder should be active.
> 
> Below is the program I tried but I don't know how to attach a notebook
> window under the image window.
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in Advance, Rhiu
> 
> My Code:
> from wxPython.wx import *
> 
> class smallAppFrame(wxFrame):
>     def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
>         wxFrame.__init__(self, parent = None, id = -1,
>                          title = "MySmallApp", pos = wxPoint(200, 200),
>                          size = wxSize(460, 200), style =
> wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE)
> 
>         self.bitmap01 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
>         self.bitmap02 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
>         self.bitmap03 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
>         self.bitmap04 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
> 
>         box = wxBoxSizer(wxHORIZONTAL)
> 
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap01, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap02, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap03, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap04, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
> 
>         self.SetAutoLayout(True)
>         self.SetSizer(box)
> 
> class MySmallApp(wxApp):
>     def OnInit(self):
>         frame = smallAppFrame(None, -1, "MySmallApp")
>         frame.Show(true)
>         self.SetTopWindow(frame)
>         return true
> 
> app = MySmallApp(0)
> app.MainLoop()
> 
Hi
Take a LONG look at Boa Constructor. Boa is young, imperfect, and a 
little emotional at times.

BUT after spending a few hours with it - I think I could create your 
screen layout in a matter of minutes.

Really is worth the steep learning curve and the frustration.
timb



From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 19 23:35:16 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:35:16 -0400
Subject: destroy your self????
References: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2285.1129777502.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129778080.444432.115690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <863bmwx3m3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"KraftDiner" <bobrien18 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Well I guess what I'm trying to achive is the invalidate the instance
> of the object.
> I have been using None to denote an invalide or uninitialized instance
> of an object.
>
> There is a degenerate case in my code where a polygon has less than 3
> points and
> I want to class to flag this instance of the object as invalid.
>
> so.. like super.self = None  :)

You're running headlong into the fact that Python's variables are just
ways to reference objects - "names" if you will - and not objects
themselves. Whe you write "foo = some_obj", all you're doing is making
tha name "foo" refer to some_obj instead of to whatever it was
referring to before. Neither some_obj nor the object previously known
as "foo" are changed in anyway.

To make a change in the object, you have to make a change in the
object proper, not just a name that refers to it. Adding a flag that
clients can test to see if the object is still valid would do
it. Changing the operations that clients do on the object so they
raise exceptions will also work, and might be considered more
Pythonic.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 14:18:33 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 11:18:33 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <1128447970.707787.50050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128436552.877409.296480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128446202.858491.240700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128447970.707787.50050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128449913.744150.300430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

> It has many similarities, but also some fundamental differences,

> considered "almost" a static python

lol, if  that is your definition of 'almost'  then your statement is
correct



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 02:53:55 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:53:55 +0200
Subject: bug or feature?
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.05.12.53.11.403404@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <di2hm5$60d$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I suppose someone might be able to come up with code that deliberately
> uses this feature for good use

argument binding is commonly used for optimization, and to give simple
functions persistent storage (e.g. memoization caches).

more importantly, it's the standard pydiom for passing object *values* (of
any kind) into an inner scope:

    x = something

    def myfunc(arg, x=x):
        # myfunc needs the current value, not whatever x
        # happens to be when the function is called

here's a typical gotcha:

    for i in range(10):
        def cb():
            print "slot", i, "fired"
        register_callback(slot=i, callback=cb)

to make this work as expected, you have to do

    for i in range(10):
        def cb(i=i):
            print "slot", i, "fired"
        register_callback(slot=i, callback=cb)

</F>





From no at spam  Wed Oct  5 10:35:36 2005
From: no at spam (Mike)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:35:36 -0400
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
Message-ID: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>

Hi, I am using Python to scrape web pages and I do not have problem 
unless I run into a site that is utf-8.  It seems & is changed to &amp; 
when the site is utf-8.

If I try to replace it with .replace('&amp;','&') it for some reason 
does not replace it.

For example: http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/default.aspx

The url in the page looks like this

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-10-05T140937Z_01_MCC423599_RTRUKOC_0_UK-BRITAIN-CONSERVATIVES.xml

However when I pull it into python the URL ends up looking like this 
(notice the &amp; instead of just & in the URL)

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&amp;storyID=2005-10-05T094354Z_01_MOL530411_RTRUKOC_0_UK-CONSTRUCTION-BPB-STGOBAIN.xml

Any ideas?


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 19 04:45:45 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:45:45 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<u3dbl1l2pbsdluivl7l4enl9k440ci9tif@4ax.com>
	<dj4esv$q09$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<48jbl1honbc8ccfnkuo0bjatmqi5bqfks4@4ax.com>
	<dj4ofo$tcu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <io1cl1tv54gs7epehprk566spfs2bln3if@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:18:31 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    Perhaps you aren't following the thread, but I was talking about the 
>obligations a company has, not the obligations any individual has. And I was 
>talking about obligations *to* individuals.

To me that makes no sense. Microsoft is an abstraction. It can't do
anything. It can't make decisions. Only the individuals to work for it
or on the board can, though they may do it in Microsoft's name.  If
you want to talk about moral action, obligation etc. you can't divorce
that from the people who do the actions.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Tue Oct 18 10:38:37 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:38:37 GMT
Subject: wxPython + pyPlot
References: <dj2ptf$aqb$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<dj2thb$qrp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <NN75f.2002$dO2.171@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

I think wxWidget comes with a sample

Philippe

Robert wrote:

> Maebe, does anyone have some examples with wxPython and pyplot?
> 
> Thanks again,
>         Robert



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 01:22:14 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:22:14 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
	<1130647542.669549.300360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

lbolognini at gmail.com <lbolognini at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> def foo(**kwargs):
>     expected_form1_kwargs = ["arg1", "arg2"]
> 
>     for name in expected_form1_kwargs:
>         if name not in kwargs:
>             kwargs[name]=None
> 
>     for name in kwargs:
>         if name in kwargs and name not in expected_form1_kwargs:
>             raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword: " + name
> 
>     print kwargs

I find this style of coding repulsive when compared to:

def foo(arg1=None, arg2=None):
    print dict(arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)

I don't understand what added value all of those extra, contorted lines
are supposed to bring to the party.


Alex


From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 14:28:23 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 11:28:23 -0700
Subject: Extention String returning
Message-ID: <1130178503.498003.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I have been writing a program that is designed to return an 8 byte
string from C to Python. Occasionally one or more of these bytes will
be null, but the size of it will always be known. How can I write an
extention module that will return the correct bytes, and not just until
the null? I would think there would be a fairly  easy way to do this,
but, well... Thanks!



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 03:23:26 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:23:26 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 04:44:25 -0000, gordonb.7vhwj at burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote or quoted :

>And how do you fix the problem of unsolicited USENET articles?
>(*ALL* of them are unsolicited to someone).  Or unsolicited
>email?  

Read my essay.
http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html

I talk around those problems.

It requires a fresh start.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 31 14:25:39 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:25:39 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:868xwcevke.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

>> Microsoft's behavior consisted of arguments, that is, did not
>> involve force, the threat of force, fraud, or the threat of
>> fraud. This is perhaps the most vital distinction that there is.

> Wrong. Either your definition of force is to narrow, or you're wrong
> that it's the distinction is even vaguely vital. If I convince
> everyone who might make food available to you not to do so - for
> example, by paying them more than their interaction with you is worth
> to them, I can starve you to death. I'd say I've used force against
> you - an economic force.

    Right, you would say that, because you don't see the difference between 
guns and arguments.

> This is the kind of force that MS wields
> illegally. I'm willing to admit this isn't a usual definition of
> force, and won't argue if you want to say that it isn't force. But in
> that case, the fact that I didn't use "force" against you is
> irrelevant to you - you're just as dead.

    No, it is completely relevant. You are trying to say the means don't 
matter if the same end is achieved. But if you're going to say that, you 
might as well say there's no difference between shooting someone and letting 
them die of natural causes.

    But you are completely and utterly wrong. Civilized interactions between 
men consist of prohibiting certain *means*, not prohibiting certain ends.

    DS




From free.condiments at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 19:46:24 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 16:46:24 -0800
Subject: Pickling and unpickling inherited attributes
In-Reply-To: <1130714629.049424.237250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130714629.049424.237250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130719584.505020.118800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Of course, in __setstate__, there should be a tup = list(tup) as well -
sheer forgetfulness and a confusing name in one.



From saint.infidel at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 17:44:12 2005
From: saint.infidel at gmail.com (infidel)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 14:44:12 -0700
Subject: infinite cherrypy autoreloader loop
In-Reply-To: <1129751081.407613.289710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129751081.407613.289710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129758252.410765.142210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Ok, the problem seems to be with my cherrypy importing Kid.  If I
import the kid module or any of my compiled kid template modules, then
I get the autoreloader infinite loop.  Is anyone else experiencing this
effect?



From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 00:15:20 2005
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (mirandacascade at yahoo.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 21:15:20 -0700
Subject: handling ExpatError exception raised from ElementTree.XML() method
Message-ID: <1130386520.772048.117530@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Verion of Python: 2.4
O/S: Windows XP
ElementTree resides in the c:\python24\lib\site-packages\elementtree\
folder

When a string that does not contain well-formed XML is passed as an
argument to the XML() method in ElementTree.py, an ExpatError exception
is raised.  I can trap the exception with a try/except where the except
does not specify a specific exception, but I cannot figure out how to
construct the except clause in a try/except statement to catch the
ExpatError exception.  Interactive window illustrates

>>> import elementtree.ElementTree as ElemTree
>>> badxml = '<response>abc</responsez>'
>>> root = ElemTree.XML(badxml)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\elementtree\ElementTree.py", line
960, in XML
    parser.feed(text)
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\elementtree\ElementTree.py", line
1242, in feed
    self._parser.Parse(data, 0)
ExpatError: mismatched tag: line 1, column 15
>>> try:
... 	root = ElemTree.XML(badxml)
... except:
... 	print 'some exception raised'
...
some exception raised
>>> try:
... 	root = ElemTree.XML(badxml)
... except ExpatError:
... 	print 'ExpatError exception raised'
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 3, in ?
NameError: name 'ExpatError' is not defined

I'm guessing that I need to define/describe the ExpatError exception
class and then refer to that defined exception class after the keyword
'except' and before the ':', but I cannot figure out how to do that.



From Slattery_T at bls.gov  Thu Oct 20 16:17:21 2005
From: Slattery_T at bls.gov (Tim Slattery)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:17:21 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<rr2l23-4em.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <0mufl1588t4sj6jcptbb727mquie9fu12r@4ax.com>

"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:

>No - they got the deal with IBM when they were a garage startup. 

Not quite a garage startup. They had initial success in Albuquerque,
NM, writing a Basic interpreter for the MITS Altair machine. By the
time IBM came to them, they had moved to Seattle and were having more
success writing compilers for several languages for microcomputers. So
no longer a garage startup, but still very small, and definitely not a
monopoly.

--  
Tim Slattery
Slattery_T at bls.gov


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 19:43:56 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:43:56 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<srtik1d92f827rt0s0aemi5a63fiocl6s2@4ax.com>
	<86achikzg5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<p72rk1trqov3c50gl7fdn8k8suihqgl0js@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86d5mawbb7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:06:34 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>>Nah, I've just know people who spend a lot of time - and money -
>>dealing with spam, and we've discussed these issues at great
>>length. You haven't proposed anything that hasn't been proposed
>>before, and rejected for various reasons.
> As if what we are living with now were preferable to what I propose.

Nope. Any of the rejected proposals would be better than what we have
now.

> It is inertia. It is herd mentality that dare not leap out of the
> current rut. It is not a particularly difficult technical problem. It
> is figuring out how to get people to switch over.

Yup, you solved an easy problem - designing a spam-proof email
system. That's been done any number of times. The hard part is a
deployment strategy that will actually get the world to transition to
such a system. That's why earlier nearly identical proposals got
rejected - nobody could come up with a workable transition plan.
Without a transition plan, a better email system is only of academic
interest - and not even much of that at this late date.

And yes, it's just inertia. Sort of like why the world stays in it's
orbit is just inertia. If you could get enough people to agree on a
solution and switch to it at the same time, you'd be done. But
"enough" is everyone who uses email, so realistically you need a plan
- and a system - that lets things interoperate during the transition.

  <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct  4 13:16:17 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:16:17 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<gaGOe.213$5k1.200@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86wtmcm1j9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<6VaPe.422$MN5.100@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
	<430D7366.C2126F6D@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j6e5k1pqug8j403qhgjtgk5ikifkub8ttc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:15:25 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer at yahoo.com>
wrote or quoted :

>  It also
>interferes with the use of AsciiArt, 

second only in irritation to spam.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 18 08:49:47 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:49:47 -0400
Subject: unittest of file-reading function
In-Reply-To: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>
References: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>
Message-ID: <KoadnbuIkqHPcsneRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Helge Stenstroem wrote:
> Say I have a function
> 
> def f(filename):
>     result = openFileAndProcessContents(filename)
>     return result
> 
> Can that function be unit tested without having a real file as input?
> Something along the lines of
> 
> import unittest
> class tests(unittest.TestCase):
>     def test1(self):
>         fileContents = "bla bla bla\nmore bla bla bla"
>         ???   # make f read this string instead of opening a file
>         expected = expectedResult
>         result = f(filename)
>         self.assertEqual(result, expected)
> 
> One possibility would be to make the unit test write to a temporary
> file. Are there better alternatives?

The simplest approach is to use a StringIO.  Often that will require 
passing a "file" object to the routine instead of a file *name*, but 
often that's better anyway (decouples file management and parsing).

Another approach is to create a "mock file" object.  Depending on your 
needs, this can be a very simple or a very complex thing to do.  I can 
offer more detail/suggestions here if you need.

-Peter


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Wed Oct 12 05:40:54 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:40:54 +0200
Subject: crosswords helper program
References: <434cd0b3$0$5378$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <diilnd$l1d$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

gg wrote:
> I plan to write a program in Python in order to help me doing 
> crosswords, I was wondering if such a program already existed.
> 
> Basically it will get the number of letters of the word (5, 10, 12...) 
> then the letters known (B in second letter, E in 5th letter...) and then 
> search in a dictionary the words matching this criteria
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gerard

Pretty straightforward with a regular expression:

import re
words = ["BULLETIN", "BALLPARK", "BUSINESS"]
r = re.compile("^BU..N..S$", re.IGNORECASE)
for word in words:
     if r.match(word):
         print word

You would probably want to allow the user to input both some basic 
format for your program and convert it to a regular expression as well 
as input a full pattern, because then the user can have words that have 
a U or a E in the second letter, simply because he doesn't know which 
one is right yet.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From contact at ljbsoftware.com  Mon Oct 24 22:33:13 2005
From: contact at ljbsoftware.com (contact at ljbsoftware.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:33:13 -0400
Subject: wxPython import error
Message-ID: <cdOdnYjtravwBMDeRVn-tA@comcast.com>

I have tried several times to install wxPython on Fedora Core 2.  The
installation seems to go fine (from sources), but when I try to import the
wx module I keep getting the following error:

=============================================================================
Python 2.4.2 (#1, Sep 29 2005, 13:42:11)
[GCC 3.3.3 20040412 (Red Hat Linux 3.3.3-7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import wx
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wx-2.6-gtk2-unicode/wx/__init__.py",
line 42, in ?
    from wx._core import *
  File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wx-2.6-gtk2-unicode/wx/_core.py",
line 4, in ?
    import _core_
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2ud_core-2.6.so.0: undefined symbol:
pango_x_get_context
=============================================================================

Any help or explanation would be greatly appreciated.


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 17 13:51:16 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:51:16 GMT
Subject: ordered keywords?
Message-ID: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>


Is there a way to preserve or capture the order which keywords are given?

 >>> def foo(**kwds):
...    print kwds
...
 >>> foo(one=1, two=2, three=3)
{'three': 3, 'two': 2, 'one': 1}


I would love to reverse the *args, and **kwds as well so I can  use kwds 
to set defaults and initiate values and args to set the order of 
expressions.


def foo(**__dict__, *args):
       print args

print foo(x=10, y=20, x, y, x+y)
[10, 20, 30]


Ok, I know there is a lot of problems with that.  The reason I would 
like it is because I think there might be a use case for it where a 
function iterates over *args in order, but uses kwds to set values.

def drawshapes(**inits, *args):
     for obj in args:
         obj.draw()

drawshapes( triangle=3, square=4, color=red,
             polygon(triangle, color),
             polygon(square, color) )

This comes close to the same pattern used in SVG and other formats where 
you have definitions before expressions.  If I use keywords only, It 
won't keep the order, and if I use args before keywords, I have to 
pre-assign temporary 'None' values to the arguments in the parent or 
global scope.

Any ideas?

Cheers,
    Ron

























From http  Tue Oct  4 06:35:11 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 03:35:11 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> > Or you just code without declaring, intending to go 
> > back and do it later, and invariably forget.
> 
> What's the problem, the compilor will allert you
> to your forgetfullness and you can then correct
> them all at once.

Thiat in fact happens to me all the time and is an annoying aspect of
Python.  If I forget to declare several variables in C, the compiler
gives me several warning messages and I fix them in one edit.  If I
forget to initialize several variables in Python, I need a separate
test-edit cycle to hit the runtime error for each one.


From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Mon Oct 10 08:59:46 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rbt)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:59:46 -0400
Subject: One last thing about SocketServer
Message-ID: <1128949186.15247.11.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>

I've read more about sockets and now, I have a better understanding of
them. However, I still have a few SocketServer module questions:

When used with SocketServer how exactly does socket.setdefaulttimeout()
work? Does it timeout the initial connect request to the socket server
or does it timeout the session between the connecting client socket and
the client socket the server generated to handle the incoming request? 

Also, since the *only* thing a 'socket server' does is to create 'client
sockets' to handle requests, how do I use socket object features on
these generated clients to manage and/or monitor them?

The SocketServer module is great, but it seems to hide too many details
of what it's up to!

Thanks,
rbt







From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Oct 23 07:24:33 2005
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:24:33 -0600
Subject: System tray Icon
In-Reply-To: <c1967eb90510221528r59f620fexe606fef05b276192@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c1967eb90510221528r59f620fexe606fef05b276192@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435B72F1.3090607@pythonapocrypha.com>

Mike Pippin wrote:
> How would I have an app run with just a system tray Icon??? any help 
> would be greatly appreciated. I have no clue where to start.

Choose a GUI toolkit, e.g. wxPython.



From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sun Oct 23 18:12:54 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:12:54 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<djgt6m$mj7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <EVT6f.1507$ki7.59085@news20.bellglobal.com>


"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote in message 
news:djgt6m$mj7$1 at nntp.webmaster.com...
>
> "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote in message 
> news:GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975 at news20.bellglobal.com...
>
>> I'd be interested in hearing what you think a right is?
>
>    A right is a scope of authority. That is, a sphere within which one's 
> decision is sovereign.
>

Then why were you claiming that a government can infringe on a person's 
rights if those rights are not codified or even accepted by those people? 
The idea of inalienable rights for anyone in a Western society only exists 
if you believe that the rights of Western societies are inalienable and 
should be respected everywhere. There is a huge arrogance in that 
assumption, though, and once you enter a jurisdiction that does not hold 
your rights to be inalienable they are no longer your rights.

You can have generally agreed upon rights, but as you note, those rights can 
only be hoped for if the systems exist to enforce them. Once those systems 
erode, you no longer have rights only hopes. The more you allow those 
systems to be eroded, the less you can expect your rights to exist.

In the end, the slippery slope theory would suggest that if you allow MS to 
get away with bad business practices you are in effect giving all companies 
the right to leverage whatever means are at their disposal to do the same, 
to the detriment of society.

>> In Florida, for example, you have the right to gun someone down if you 
>> think they're a bit too menacing. In Canada, most people find that 
>> reprehensible. So does a Floridian visiting Canada have their rights 
>> infringed on by our rogue government because they're not allowed to gun 
>> down menacing looking Canadians at will?
>
>    That's obviously a complicated question but totally unrelated to the 
> issue at hand, which was one's sovereignty over one's own property. 
> Obviously issues where a person has to use force against another are going 
> to be complicated. The existence of complicated questions doesn't make the 
> simple ones complicated.
>

I brought it up as an example of why rights are difficult in all cases. You 
can't claim that anyone has a right to the land they live on. Your only 
legitimacy to ownership comes through goverment and its ability to enforce 
that legitimacy for you. And if you really want to get contentious, in 
Canada and the US your only legitimacy comes from an artificial transaction 
between a landowner and your government at some time in the past to 
legitimize its sovereignty over Native American land.

Your only real right when it comes to land ownership is to receive some kind 
of compensation if it is taken away. Your government could decide at any 
time to expropriate your property to build a new highway (for example), and 
you'd be out in the cold. You can try to fight the government in court but 
more often than not you'll lose because the greater good of society 
outweighs your right to own the land (and the assumption is always that 
governments work for the greater good of society).

And add to that all the covenants and municipal laws you have to obey when 
purchasing property and the notion that you have sovereignty over your land 
becomes even less tenable.

Matt 




From http  Fri Oct 28 16:46:45 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:46:45 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130531874.710810.39050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x8xwdid3e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"KraftDiner" <bobrien18 at yahoo.com> writes:
> In C++ you can specify a comparision method, how can I do this with
> python...

Yes, see the docs.  Just pass a comparison func to the sort method.


From mark.engelberg at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 13:58:42 2005
From: mark.engelberg at gmail.com (mark.engelberg at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 10:58:42 -0700
Subject: Need advice on finding memory leak
Message-ID: <1129485522.439259.211480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I am having trouble identifying the source of a memory leak in a
Windows Python program. The basic gist is as follows:
1. Generate a directed graph (approx. 1000 nodes).
2. Write the graph to a file.
3. Use the os.system command to invoke another program which processes
the graph file (graphViz), and generates a gif image of the graph.
4. Use another os.system command to delete the intermediate file, which
is no longer needed.
5. Append to a global list variable some summary information about the
graph (a few floats, a few ints, and a couple of short strings).
6. Repeat the above steps several thousand times.
7. Sort the global summary list.
8. Write the summary information out to a file.

When running this program, Python consumes all memory after about a
thousand graphs.

I have confirmed the following:
1. I am closing all files that I open.
2. Although within the directed graph, nodes refer back and forth to
each other, the main object which manages the directed graph is not
part of anything cyclical.  It's reference count is in fact going to
zero when the graph goes out of scope.
3. After running gc.collect(), I have confirmed that the nodes are not
in the garbage list.  I interpret this to mean that although their may
be cyclical references among them, the collector was able to determine
that they were unreachable as a group, and successfully collected them.
4. I am generating all these graphs in a for loop (using xrange), not
through a recursive process that would cause the stack to grow.

So really the only thing that should be growing here is the global list
that maintains summary information, and since I'm only adding little
bits of data, it's hard to imagine how this could be exhausting 2GB of
memory after just a thousand iterations.

Can anyone help me think of other possible sources of a leak?  Are
there any classic "python-gotchas" I'm missing here, such as something
leaking from calling os.system so many times?  Any other suggestions as
to what strategies I could employ to track down the leak?

Thanks,

Mark



From jfdoyon at methane.ca  Sun Oct  2 17:11:13 2005
From: jfdoyon at methane.ca (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Doyon?=)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:11:13 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>

Wow, never even occured ot me someone would have a problem with this!

But, this might help:

http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint

In more detail:

 > Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
 > mysteriously fail to work with no error message.

No, the error message will be pretty clear actually :) You are 
attempting to use a variable that doesn't exist!  This would be the same 
type of message you would get from a compiled language, just at a 
different point in time (runtime vs. compile time).

 > If you don't declare variables, you can inadvertently re-use an
 > variable used in an enclosing context when you don't intend to,

Possible, though good design should always keep anysuch situation at 
bay.  Python is OO, hence scoping should rarely be a problem ... globals 
are mostly evil, so the context at any given time should be the method, 
you'd need a fairly big and complex method to start loosing track of 
what you called what ... Also, a good naming convention should keep this 
at bay.

Also, because things are interpreted, you don't (normally) need to put 
extensive forthought into things as you do with compiled languages.  You 
can run things quickyl and easily on demand, a misnamed variable will be 
clearly indicated and easily solved in a matter of minutes.

Using a smart IDE might also help prevent such problems before they occur?

Hope you enjoy python :)

J.F.

James A. Donald wrote:
> I am contemplating getting into Python, which is used by engineers I
> admire - google and Bram Cohen, but was horrified to read
> 
> "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
> 
> Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
> mysteriously fail to work with no error message.
> 
> If you don't declare variables, you can inadvertently re-use an
> variable used in an enclosing context when you don't intend to, or
> inadvertently reference a new variable (a typo) when you intended to
> reference an existing variable.
> 
> What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug?
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.jim.com


From the.theorist at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 14:09:34 2005
From: the.theorist at gmail.com (the.theorist)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:09:34 -0700
Subject: Setting Class Attributes
Message-ID: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
instance to hold separate entries.

#----------Begin module test.py
class ex:
    def __init__(self, val={}):
        self.value = val
    def __str__(self):
        return str(self.value)

class Big:
    def __init__(self):
        self.A = ex()
        self.B = ex()
    def __str__(self)
        return "A=%s, B=%s"%(self.A, self.B)
    def changea(self):
        a = self.A.value
        a['x'] = 1
        a['y'] = 10

print "x = Big()"
x = Big()
print x

print "x.changea()"
x.changea()
print x

print "x.B.value = 30"
x.B.value = 30
print x
#----------End module test.py

#----------Begin actual output
x = Big()
A={}, B={}
x.changea()
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B={'x':1, 'y':10}
x.B.value = 30
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B=30
#----------End actual output

#----------Begin Desired output
x = Big()
A={}, B={}
x.changea()
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B={}
x.B.value = 30
A={'x':1, 'y':10}, B=30
#----------End Desired output

I'm never actually planning on changing the dictionary into something
else, I just included that test to see wether both A and B would be set
to 30. I'm clearly missing something here: Why do both dictionaries
appear to get the same data when they are clearly separate instances?



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 00:01:19 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 21:01:19 -0700
Subject: isatty() for file-like objects: Implement or not?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1479.1128470830.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1479.1128470830.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128484879.240338.128730@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

HOWARD GOLDEN wrote:
> The standard documentation for isatty() says:
>
>         "Return True if the file is connected to a tty(-like) device, else
> False. Note: If a file-like object is not associated with a real file,
> this method should not be implemented."
>
> In his book, "Text Processing in Python," David Mertz says: "...
> implementing it to always return 0 is probably a better approach."
>
> My reaction is to agree with Mertz.

I agree, I think the doc is wrong, e.g. StringIO has isatty() which
returns False. I think the doc was probably a thinko (or things have
changed) since Guido checked it in over 3 years ago.

It would be great if you can provide a patch or at least a bug report
on SourceForge.

Thanks,
n



From andrea_gavana at tin.it  Fri Oct 14 15:16:17 2005
From: andrea_gavana at tin.it (Andrea Gavana)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:16:17 +0200
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
References: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>
	<mailman.1927.1129080609.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434eb32d$0$29544$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>

I have tried your solution, Terry:

> new_hue   # your 'basic color', just the hue part
> rgb_base  # color from the basic button image
> rgb_new   # the new color you want to replace rgb_base with
>
> rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb( (new_hue,) + rgb_to_hsv(rgb_base)[1:])


thanks a lot for your suggestion! However, either I did not understand it
correctly or I am doing something stupid in my code. Here is a small
example:

from colorsys import *

# that is the old colour --> GREY
rgb_old = (0.7, 0.7, 0.7)

# Transform the new colour in HSV
hsv_old = rgb_to_hsv(rgb_old[0], rgb_old[1], rgb_old[2])

# this is the new colour --> BLUE
rgb_new = (0.0, 0.0, 1.0)

# Transform the new colour in HSV
hsv_new = rgb_to_hsv(rgb_new[0], rgb_new[1], rgb_new[2])

# I take only the Hue part of the new colour
new_hue = hsv_new[0]

# Get the new colour
rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb(new_hue, hsv_old[1], hsv_old[2])

print rgb_old
print rgb_new
print rgb_old == rgb_new


This prints:

(0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996)
(0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996)
True

So, no matter what colour I choose as a "new" colour, the Hue part of the
new colour doesn't change in RGB. In other words, leaving the old value for
"Saturation" and "Value" makes the presence of the "Hue" part useless. But
why in the world does this happen? If a colour is defined by 3 values,
changes in every single value should change the colour too...
Ah, thanks God for the existence of RGB ;-)

Thanks a lot for every suggestion.

Andrea.

"Imagination Is The Only Weapon In The War Against Reality."
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/infinity77




From leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam  Wed Oct 26 23:25:05 2005
From: leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam (Andy Leszczynski)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:25:05 -0500
Subject: creating/altering the OpenOffice spredsheet docs
Message-ID: <o4idnTdJk8V02v3eRVn-oQ@comcast.com>

Any idea how to do that the way ActiveX would be used on M$?

A.


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 24 22:06:34 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:06:34 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
Message-ID: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>


Hi, I found the following to be a useful way to access arguments after 
they are passed to a function that collects them with **kwds.


     class namespace(dict):
         def __getattr__(self, name):
             return self.__getitem__(name)
         def __setattr__(self, name, value):
             self.__setitem__(name, value)
         def __delattr__(self, name):
             self.__delitem__(name)

     def foo(**kwds):
	kwds = namespace(kwds)
	print kwds.color, kwds.size, kwds.shape  etc....

     foo( color='red', size='large', shape='ball', .... etc..)


It just seems awkward to have to use "string keys" in this situation. 
This is easy and still retains the dictionary so it can be modified and 
passed to another function or method as kwds again.

Any thoughts?  Any better way to do this?

Cheers, Ron



From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 23 01:27:44 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:27:44 GMT
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
In-Reply-To: <1130043938.837369.255270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.48.00.137827@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Gmy6f.208600$p_1.49655@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.00.36.28.678699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<iUD6f.209139$p_1.33935@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130043938.837369.255270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <kbF6f.166133$xl6.108963@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:

> interesting. seems that "if ' ' in source:" is a highly optimized code
> as it is even faster than "if str.find(' ') != -1:' when I assume they
> end up in the same C loops ?


The 'in' version doesn't call a function and has a simpler compare.  I 
would think both of those results in it being somewhat faster if it 
indeed calls the same C loop.


 >>> import dis
 >>> def foo(a):
...   if ' ' in a:
...      pass
...
 >>> dis.dis(foo)
   2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 (' ')
               3 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
               6 COMPARE_OP               6 (in)
               9 JUMP_IF_FALSE            4 (to 16)
              12 POP_TOP

   3          13 JUMP_FORWARD             1 (to 17)
         >>   16 POP_TOP
         >>   17 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              20 RETURN_VALUE
 >>>
 >>> def bar(a):
...   if str.find(' ') != -1:
...      pass
...
 >>> dis.dis(bar)
   2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (str)
               3 LOAD_ATTR                1 (find)
               6 LOAD_CONST               1 (' ')
               9 CALL_FUNCTION            1
              12 LOAD_CONST               2 (-1)
              15 COMPARE_OP               3 (!=)
              18 JUMP_IF_FALSE            4 (to 25)
              21 POP_TOP

   3          22 JUMP_FORWARD             1 (to 26)
         >>   25 POP_TOP
         >>   26 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              29 RETURN_VALUE
 >>>


From aisaac0 at verizon.net  Tue Oct 25 02:45:01 2005
From: aisaac0 at verizon.net (David Isaac)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:45:01 GMT
Subject: grep
Message-ID: <Nvk7f.14699$gF4.11900@trnddc07>

What's the standard replacement for the obsolete grep module?
Thanks,
Alan Isaac




From jason at pengale.com  Mon Oct 17 15:23:21 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:23:21 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <98CEBC3D-1D24-4DB8-9962-386E48A4C17D@pengale.com>

On Oct 17, 2005, at 12:19 PM, Kenneth McDonald wrote:

> Web interfaces are missing a lot more than this. Here are just a  
> few things that cannot be done with web-based interfaces (correct  
> me where I'm wrong):
>
> 1) A real word processor.
> 2) Keybindings in a web application
> 3) Drag and drop
> 4) Resizable windows (i.e. not the browser window) within the  
> application.
> 5) Anything other than absolutely trivial graphical programs.
>
> State is a very small part of the whole thing. Progress is being  
> made, but web interfaces are still basically forms that can contain  
> buttons, checkboxes, text fields, and a few other basic controls. I  
> wish it were otherwise.

Drag-and-drop within a page can be done. Drag-and-drop between pages  
is the only thing on that list I think is outright impossible.  
Everything else is a matter of overcoming difficulty (well, 5 might  
be close enough to qualify as impossible, if you're thinking Photoshop.)

Thing is, as Web applications continue to increase in complexity,  
they're going to resemble desktop apps more and more, not just on the  
front end but in back as well. So the "advantage" of Web apps being  
simpler to program will probably go away. Right now, they're only  
simpler because people are doing simpler things with them (and  
browsers only let you do so much.)

The extra complexity you get with desktop app toolkits is overkill  
for many purposes. HTML is often "good enough" in a lot less time.  
But if we get to the point where browsers are implementing inter-page  
drag-and-drop (probably differently!) and so forth, some of us might  
well decide it's simpler to go back to wxPython, etc.

Then again, maybe we'll live to see the W3C standardize the desktop  
environment... <g>

-Jason



From aasava at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 19:54:11 2005
From: aasava at gmail.com (aasava at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 16:54:11 -0700
Subject: All kind of download just here
Message-ID: <1130111651.817492.94170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

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From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:22:20 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:22:20 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

So it seems there is no good way to handle "interactive" processes on
windows using python.  By interactive I mean processes/commands that
require user interaction, such as telnet or del (to delete a file or
directory sometimes you need to confirm with a yes or no), date, etc.

os.system gives the exact behavior, but you can't redirec the output.
pexpect isn't supported on windows.  Even with subprocess you can't
handle all/most cases..since you have to do things like look for he
prompt.

I modified the original suggestion so it would update the prompt, in
case the user did a "cd.." ..which works fine now.  However, if a user
tries to do, "del tmp123" ...windows prompts for a "are you sure you
want to delete... Y/N?" ...so the code hangs.

I can't believe no one else has done this yet..or if they have, it
hasn't been widely discussed.

Any other suggestions?



From chris.atlee at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 14:01:02 2005
From: chris.atlee at gmail.com (chris.atlee at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 11:01:02 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86d5lpdwg3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1130608862.858527.124330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:
[snip]
>    for name, value in kwargs.items():
>        if name in ('a', 'list', 'of', 'valid', 'keywords'):
>           exec "%s = %s" % (name, value)
>        else:
>           raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword " + name
>
> Others will probably tell you that you really shouldn't be using exec.

What about using setattr?

    for name, value in kwargs.items():
        if name in ('a', 'list', 'of', 'valid', 'keywords'):
           setattr(self, name, value)
        else:
           raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword " + name

I'd probably turn the list of valid keywords into another dictionary to
make it easy to specify default values for all the parameters as well.

Cheers,
Chris



From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Thu Oct  6 22:56:14 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:56:14 -0500
Subject: So far (about editing tools)
In-Reply-To: <20051006204548.GH32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
	<48D17FEA-3E2D-46CA-AEB4-86EA1CFACCB1@sbcglobal.net>
	<20051006204548.GH32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <200510062156.14442.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Thursday 06 October 2005 15:45, Micah Elliott wrote:
> On Oct 06, Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> > The only _real_ problem is the eclipse learning curve.
>
> The only real *advantage* of Eclipse (over other suggested tools) is
> its highly hyped automatic refactoring.  Admittedly, I have not used
> it for Python development, but I'm skeptical of the feasibility of
> auto-refactoring in general, and therefore acknowledge *no*
> advantage. Furthermore, Eclipse requires java and is thusly not
> provided on any linux distro I'm familiar with, which I consider a
> huge roadblock.  And as mentioned, it's bloated.

Eclipse is massively bloated. We're using it for a class I'm taking 
where we have to program in Java... when I start Eclipse on my 1.7GHz 
laptop w/ 256 MB ram, Eclipse is very slow and KDE takes forever to 
switch desktops or applications... Eclipse running brings my entire 
laptop to a near-standstill.

And refactoring: Eclipse has incredible Java refactoring, which works 
beautifully due to Java's highly static nature. Eclipse is by far the 
best tool I've ever seen for browsing and manipulating Java projects. 
But Python's highly dynamic nature makes automatic refactoring 
difficult, and I find Bicycle Repair Man has difficulty with even some 
highly trivial refactoring things (renaming the variable in a for loop 
in one place I tried to use it...).

> I would suspect that the majority of Python programmers write in one
> of vim or emacs. Anyone got stats?

+1 Vim. But no stats.

Perhaps a survey of Python source files found on the Internet for 
prevailing modelines would be revealing?

- Michael


From http  Thu Oct  6 05:10:15 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Oct 2005 02:10:15 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1517.1128511675.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xek70xhzz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1527.1128516852.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xirwbn1kl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1593.1128588924.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xslvf105k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> I'm not trying to be silly. I am trying to get a handle on the
> semantics that you are proposing. So we now have two requirements for
> the new declaration syntax (please let me know if I'm wrong):
> 
> o the variable must be declared
> o the variable must be assigned

These would both be errors that the compiler could and should check
for, if declaration checking is enabled.  However, they would not be
syntax errors.

> I would assume that you would make it so that assignment and
> delaration happen as part of the same statement?

Sure, why not.

> Right now, the compiler DOES NOT examine the contents of the other
> modules. All it does is generate an IMPORT_NAME instruction which is
> evaluation during runtime. 

In that case the other module gets compiled when the IMPORT_NAME
instruction is executed.  That says that compile time and runtime are
really the same thing in the current system.

> So are you proposing that the compiler now scan other modules during
> compilation?

Yeah, maybe some optimization is possible.


From http  Sat Oct 15 02:56:14 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 23:56:14 -0700
Subject: MD5 module Pythonicity
References: <6815022a0510142223q3b6ae449ja0483f2f25ebb263@mail.gmail.com>
	<diq8fl$f0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2108.1129359156.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xoe5r1d69.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
> > Forcing every digest module to add code to cater for just one of many
> > use cases is most likely a waste of time.
> here's the hash API specification, btw:
>     http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0247.html

I agree with you and Mike that a file checksum function isn't that
important.  I use the hash modules all the time and can't think of a
single time I've ever used one to hash an entire file.  However, PEP
247 shows that the modules are supposed to have a common API.  So if
there was some actual reason to have a file-hashing operation, it
would be done by implementing it once and having it call a hash module
that's passed as a parameter, similar to the HMAC module, rather than
implementing the file operation in every different hash module.


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 17 22:45:01 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:45:01 GMT
Subject: ordered keywords?
In-Reply-To: <435443e9$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<435443e9$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <NkZ4f.19384$ae.10680@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> Ron Adam wrote:
> 
>> drawshapes( triangle=3, square=4, color=red,
>>             polygon(triangle, color),
>>             polygon(square, color) )
>>
>> This comes close to the same pattern used in SVG and other formats 
>> where you have definitions before expressions.
> 
> 
> Why is this better than the obvious
> triangle=3
> square=4
> color=red
> drawshapes(polygon(triangle, color),
>             polygon(square, color) )
> 
> or even
> drawshapes(polygon(3, red),
>             polygon(4, red) )
> 
> which is concise and readable IMO...?
> 
> Kent

That example was over simplified quite a bit.  :-)

The reason I'm trying to get named attributes is so I can change colors 
or the text items later without having to recreate the object.  The 
objects I'm using are capable inheriting from other predefined objects 
so you only have to add or modify it a tiny bit.

For example the following creates shapes that build on each other and 
they all have a .draw() method to draw on a Tk canvas.  In addition they 
can be scaled, stretched and rotated. Well, the ones based on polygons 
and lines can be rotated and stretched.  I'm still working on how to do 
that with arcs and text items.



## These are the most basic shape elements which use the
## Tkinter canvas items specified by the 'obj' attribute.

# base shapes.
text = Shape( obj='text', text='', fill='black', size=1,
               font='', style='', pos=(0,0), points=(0,0) )

line = Shape( obj='line', arrow='none', fill='black', smooth='false',
               pos=(0,0), width=.1, points=(-.5,0,.5,0), size=1,
               rotate=0, center=(0,0) )

polygon = Shape( obj='polygon', fill='grey', outline='', size=1,
                  smooth='false', pos=(0,0), width=0, points=(0,0),
                  rotate=0, center=(0,0), ratio=(1,1) )

arc = Shape( obj='arc', fill='grey', outline='', pos=(0,0), width=0,
              size=1, style='arc', start='0', extent='90',
              points=(-.5,-.5,.5,.5) )



## This next group inherits from the shapes above and only
## needs to change what's different.

# shape variations
chord = arc(style='chord')
pie = arc(style='pieslice')
rectangle = polygon(points=[-.5,-.5,.5,-.5,.5,.5,-.5,.5])
triangle = polygon(points=getpolygon(3))
square = polygon(points=getpolygon(4))
octagon = polygon(points=getpolygon(8))
circle = polygon(smooth='true', points=getpolygon(16))

# The oval is stretched circle, which is a smoothed polygon.
# this can be rotated, the Tkinter oval can't.
oval = circle(ratio=(1,.7))


## Grouping combines the shapes together.  Again only what is
## different needs to be changed, such as color or size and
## relative position. Any previously defined
## shapes can be combined to create complex new ones.

# CAUTION ICON
caution = Group(
     triangle(pos=(6,5), size=75),
     triangle(fill='yellow', size=75),
     txt = text( text='!', font='times', style='bold',
                 pos=(0,-3), size=30,) )

# ERROR ICON
error = Group(
     octagon(pos=(6,5), size=55),
     octagon(fill='red', size=55),
     circle(fill='white', size=37),
     circle(fill='red', size=25),
     line(fill='white', width=.2, rotate=45, size=28) )


## For this next group it would be nice if the bubbletip
## shape could be in the argument list, but it would need
## to be after the other refernces to it, and they
## would not find it. I did it this way to try out
## the idea of reusing objects, it would be no trouble
## just to duplicate the bubbletip in this case.

# QUESTION & INFO ICONS
bubbletip = polygon(points=[-5,10, 20,10, 30,30])
question = Group(
     bubbletip(pos=(6,5)),
     oval(pos=(6,5), size=60),
     bubbletip(fill='lightblue'),
     oval(fill='lightblue', size=60),
     txt = text( text='?', font='times', style='bold',
                 size=25 ) )


## Here I just need to change the text element to 'i' to get
## the Info icon. Since it has a name we can do that.

info = question()     # get a copy of question
info.txt.text = 'i'   # change the '?' mark to 'i'


These can all be in a file ready to import and then you can use them 
anywhere in Tkinter that accepts a normal canvas commands.

     caution.draw(c, pos=(70,50), scale=.5)  # small caution icon
     error.draw(c, pos=(150,48), scale=3)    # triple sized error icon


Now this all works wonderfully, but I can only have one named attribute 
because I can't depend on the order a dictionary has.  So I'm going to 
probaby need to have a layer attribute.  Thus the need for either 
ordered keyword arguments, or a way to specify keywords as a variable 
for the arguments list.

Eventually I will be able to mix groups and shapes together in other 
groups by using them exactly like any other shape.  So I can take a 
image of a guy, add a hat, tilt the hat, and few other props, put some 
text on it, and I have a nice illustration with very little effort.

There are still a lot of small details that still need to be worked out 
before it's suitable for real use.  It works now, but too much will 
change as I add too it at this stage.  ;-)

Cheers,
    Ron


























From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 08:22:11 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 05:22:11 -0700
Subject: path
Message-ID: <1d987df30510190522m6b5fbd20n2fddd311e34ed7b1@mail.gmail.com>

I have installed Python 2.3 and I type "help()" and then "Keywords".
I get a list of words. And it says that I can enter any of the words
to get more help.  I enter
"and" and I get the following error message:
"Sorry, topic and keyword documentation is not available because the Python
HTML documentation files could not be found.  If you have installed them,
please set the environment variable PYTHONDOCS to indicate their location."

but I have set both the environment variable, with the path to be
C:\Python23\Doc which includes python23.chm
Why I still got the above error message?


From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 16 05:33:49 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:33:49 GMT
Subject: dis.dis question
In-Reply-To: <4351affc.104308027@news.oz.net>
References: <rwT1f.138151$xl6.1729@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<aN72f.138292$xl6.19229@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<4351affc.104308027@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <18p4f.151667$xl6.58345@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:10:46 GMT, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

>>Ron Adam wrote:

>>It seems I've found a bug in dis.py, or maybe a expected non feature. 
>>When running dis from a program it fails to find the last traceback 
>>because sys.last_traceback doesn't get set.  (a bug in sys?)  It works 
>>ok from the shell, but not from the program.
>>
>>Changing it to to get sys.exc_info()[2], fix's it in a program, but then 
>>it doesn't work in the shell.  So I replaced it with the following which 
>>works in both.
>>
>>        try:
>>            if hasattr(sys,'last_traceback'):
>>                tb = sys.last_traceback
>>            else:
>>                tb = sys.exc_info()[2]
>>        except AttributeError:
>>            raise RuntimeError, "no last traceback to disassemble"

I guess I should do a bug report on this part so you can do the 
following in a program.

     try:
        (something that fails)
     except:
        dis.dis()   # print a dissasembled traceback.


>>I'm still looking for info on how to use disassemble_string().
>>
> 
> 
> One way to get dis output without modufying dis is to capture stdout:
> (ancient thing I cobbled together, no guarantees ;-)
> 
>  >>> class SOCapture:
>  ...     """class to capture stdout between calls to start & end methods, q.v."""
>  ...     import sys
>  ...     def __init__(self):
>  ...         self.so = self.sys.stdout
>  ...         self.text = []
>  ...     def start(self, starttext=None):
>  ...         """Overrides sys.stdout to capture writes.
>  ...         Optional starttext is immediately appended as if written to stdout."""
>  ...         self.sys.stdout = self
>  ...         if starttext is None: return
>  ...         self.text.append(starttext)
>  ...     def end(self, endtext=None):
>  ...         """Restores stdout to value seen at contruction time.
>  ...         Optional endtext is appended as if written to stdout before that."""
>  ...         self.sys.stdout = self.so
>  ...         if endtext is None: return
>  ...         self.text.append(endtext)
>  ...     def gettext(self):
>  ...         """Returns captured text as single string."""
>  ...         return ''.join(self.text)
>  ...     def clear(self):
>  ...         """Clears captured text list."""
>  ...         self.text = []
>  ...     def write(self, s):
>  ...         """Appends written string to captured text list.
>  ...         This method is what allows an instance to stand in for stdout."""
>  ...         self.text.append(s)

This is useful.  But I've already rewritten it. ;-)

I tried to keep it's output as close to the original as possible.  For 
example replacing the the call "dis.dis(func)" in test_dis.py with 
"print dis.dis(func)" is all that's needed to get it to pass the test.

         s = StringIO.StringIO()
         save_stdout = sys.stdout
         sys.stdout = s
         dis.dis(func)      #<- "print dis.dis(func)" passes
         sys.stdout = save_stdout
         got = s.getvalue()

The above could be replaced with...

         got = dis.dis(func)

The same minor change needs to be made in test_peepholer.py.  It uses 
dis to check the bytecodes.  I havn't found any other dependancies yet.


>  >>> diss(foo)
>  '  1           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)\n              3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)\
>  n              6 BINARY_ADD          \n              7 LOAD_CONST               2 (2)\n
>      10 BINARY_POWER        \n             11 RETURN_VALUE        \n'
>  >>> print diss(foo)
>    1           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
>                3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
>                6 BINARY_ADD
>                7 LOAD_CONST               2 (2)
>               10 BINARY_POWER
>               11 RETURN_VALUE

This is something I fixed (or added) so it displays the same from print, 
the terminal, and the command line.

I'm not sure if it can replace dis module. It may be different enough 
that it can't.  I suspect some might not like the table class. I'm 
thinking of making a bug report for the  traceback not being found when 
distb() is used inline, and attach the altered file for consideration 
and feedback.

One possibility is to dispense with keeping it like dis and rename it to 
something different and then additional functions and capabilities can 
be added to it without worrying about breaking anything. ;-)

BTW do you know how to read the time and version stamp of the beginning 
of .pyo and .pyc files?  I added that (just too easy not to) and would 
like to put the time and version stamp at the top of the output for 
those.  It's easy to take stuff out if needed.  ;-)

I can send it to you as an attached file if you'd like to take a look.

Cheers,
    Ron





From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 17 20:47:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:47:31 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:36:53 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    As for it being illegal, it was illegal only because if was Microsoft 
>doing it. There's nothing illegal about a car dealer not selling a car 
>without an engine.

But that is not what was happening. It was not Microsoft selling
computers with MS OSs. MS was arm-twisting  retailers like me to
bundle a copy of Windows with every sale whether the customer wanted
it or not.  I think some imagine a computer is worthless without
Windows.

That gave their OS a grossly unfair price advantage.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Sat Oct 29 18:46:37 2005
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 15:46:37 -0700
Subject: dreaming in Python
Message-ID: <1130625997.428653.28080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

All,

I have to tell all of you this, at least for some laughs.  Honestly, I
had the silliest dream involving the language last night.  I dreamt
that it was a decade into the future and that Grand Central Station in
NYC was installing a cement and steel "computer core" for directing its
trains and station elevators... and for some reason I was supervising a
technician on the project.  I asked the technician, what version of
Python was being used, and he said 2.1... I said better install 2.4!
So he loaded a chip into the 15 ton cylindrical core, then the core was
lowered by winch into a manhole cover.  The lights in the station lit,
and I shouted:  One Python to Rule Them All And In The Darkness Bind
Them!   Then I took an elevator downstairs to log into the terminal.
Who did I meet on a neighboring terminal other than the BDFL?  He was
doing something esoteric and strange on the terminal but I was just
having trouble logging in.  End of dream.

Anyone ever have a wierd engineering dream sometime in thier career?

The Eternal Squire



From sidanko at scientist.com  Wed Oct 26 12:52:24 2005
From: sidanko at scientist.com (sidanko)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 09:52:24 -0700
Subject: WinXP vs. Win98
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2608.1130342363.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130331088.292656.213430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2608.1130342363.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130345544.813854.64850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks a lot! I have set the environment variable and now it runs just
fine!

AS



From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 09:35:44 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 06:35:44 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2479.1130160195.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2479.1130160195.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130160944.738377.42810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

doesn't sound to encouraging :)

How about something with os.popen?

in = os.popen("cmd", "w")
in.write("hostname")

I tried this, and I get "IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid Argument"

I am not sure why this isnt working.

Steve Holden wrote:
> jas wrote:
> > Ok, I tried this...
> >
> > C:\>python
> > Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
> > on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >
> >>>>import subprocess as sp
> >>>>p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> >>>>
> >>>>result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
> >
> > 'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> > operable program or batch file.
> >
> >
> >
> > basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
> > store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
> > an error with result.
> >
> It looks to me like the line you thought you were typing at the Python
> command interpreter actually got snagged by the command processor you
> just ran, which presumably is taking its input from the console just
> like Python is.
>
> > Ideas?
> >
> Haven't used subprocess much yet, but I will just mention that this kind
> of thing always looks easy in principle and turns out to be surprisingly
> gnarly and difficult in practice.
>
> I'm not suggesting you shouldn't continue, but you are going to learn a
> *lot* as you proceed. Good luck.
>
> regards
>   Steve
> [...]
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 10:05:05 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:05:05 +0200
Subject: ssh or other python editor
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1439.1128433407.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128433683.342113.32060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhu26h$qn0$1@sea.gmane.org>

martijn at gamecreators.nl wrote:
>- I'm a newbie at freeBSD so I think there is , but I don't know where.

I just complained when someone included the entire message thread in their
replies, but not including anything at all is pretty annoying too.

> And i'm using putty on a windows OS what don't understand the syntax
> coloring.

Putty isn't doing any syntax coloring; it just draws things in the color specified
by your editor.  If you don't get any colors, it's probably because your editor
isn't properly configured.  Explicitly setting the TERM variable to "xterm" might
help:

    http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#faq-term

(but I'm pretty sure ssh does this for you, so it's probably an editor configuration
issue.  checking the FAQ for your editor might be a good idea)

</F> 





From bonono at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 04:24:00 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 01:24:00 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129708210.963305.43270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129701270.792327.168620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129708210.963305.43270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129710240.173768.151950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Xah Lee wrote:
> besides syntactical issues, another thing with doing functional
> programing in imperative languages is that they become very inefficent.
> Functional languages are optimized by various means of functional
> programings styles. Doing them in imperative languages usually comes
> with a order of execution penalty because imperative language compilers
> are usually dumb.

The itertools module and the new generator feature tries to make this
better as it is lazily evaluated, in a sense. But its side effect is
nasty. Usable though need to twist my mind a bit, not like when I do it
in haskell. But the occasion imperative dip makes some of my programs
easier to code.

>
> though, one can't totally blame for Python's lack of ability to do
> functional programing. Its language's syntax of using indentations for
> blocks by design, pretty much is in odds with functional programing's
> sequencing of functions and other ways. (such as generic mechanism for
> prefix/postfix syntax, or macros or other transformations and patterns,
> or heavy reliance on the free flow of expressions/values)

That I am not sure. haskell also use this indentation but I don't see a
problem about it. One thing I find it odd though is the @decorator
construct. I just don't understand why it is viewed as simple. It
becomes very ugly IMO when there is a number of it, I am doing some web
apps which requres varies decorators(one over the other).

@format
@login_block
@validate
@something
def my_func():

I find it easier to read and under stand in the form of

format(login_block(validate(something(my_func))))) though haskell's $
and . is even better.

format.login_block.validate.somethin.my_func

>
> I don't blame Python that it doesn't cater to functional programing BY
> DESIGN. But i do hate the mother fucking fuckheads Pythoners for one
> thing that they don't know what functional programing really is, and on
> the other hand fucking trumpet their righteousness and lies thru their
> teeth of their ignorance. (that Guido guy with his Python 3000 article
> on his blog is one example, possibly forgivable in that particular
> instance. (http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_3000.html))

That seems to be the case, I mean the design. For fairness, list
comphrehension sometimes looks cleaner, though becomes ugly when you do
the pipe/chain like programming in FP(multiple for). This again is an
odd choice. It seems to be a flattening of multiple line for loop, yet
at the same time python seems to be moving towards being more
explicit(no map/filter/etc as they can be done in for loop).

But I believe Python is designed for easy to code and read and maintain
in mind. One has to admit that without some training, FP is not very
intuitive, my head spin when I see haskell code. A for loop is easier
to understand.

Well, if you want clean FP, you can always try haskell which is getting
better and better in terms of real world module support(file system,
network etc).
>
> (excuse me for lashing out)
> 
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/



From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Sun Oct 30 17:24:46 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:24:46 +0100
Subject: Using graphviz to visualize trace.py output, anybody?
References: <1130710534.618559.40680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4365487c$0$31846$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Hi!

Under Windows, I call graphwiz from Python via COM, with win32all (PyWin).
Sorry, I don't know the Mac.

@-salutations

Michel Claveau





From enrico.sirola_NOSPAM at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 05:31:46 2005
From: enrico.sirola_NOSPAM at gmail.com (enrico.sirola_NOSPAM at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:31:46 +0200
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <m3mzl87am5.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

>>>>> "James" == James Gan <ganzhi at gmail.com> writes:

    James> I want the object printed in a readable format. For

[...]

    James> I tried pickled, marshel. They do different work. Is there
    James> another module which do this kind of job?

from pprint import pprint
pprint(object)

bye,
e.

-- 
Enrico Sirola <enrico.sirola at gmail.com>



From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 24 16:03:19 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:03:19 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<djgm3n$k13$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<xO47f.174444$RW.76779@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <djjem7$k1g$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


<axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk> wrote in message 
news:xO47f.174444$RW.76779 at fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>>    His comments are not applicable to America. They are applicable to a
>> country where the government owns the economy.

>>    No reply is needed to his comments except to point out that they only
>> apply to a communist or totalitarian state. We don't have one here, so 
>> his
>> argument doesn't apply.

> The last time I looked, property taxes were enforced in many states of
> the USA. Do you deny this?

    What do property taxes have to do with Microsoft?

>>    I am not saying "because you are a communist, your argument is wrong". 
>> I
>> am saying, "because your argument is based upon communist or totalitarian
>> premises about the relationship between the government and the economy, 
>> it
>> does not apply to the United States, and we were talking about the United
>> States."

> Then you are sadly deluded if you think that the US government does not
> make decisions on the economy.

    That's true. Of course, I do think the US government makes decisions on 
the economy.

    DS




From steve at rueb.com  Tue Oct  4 13:22:42 2005
From: steve at rueb.com (Steve Bergman)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:22:42 -0500
Subject: Which SQL module to use?
In-Reply-To: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4342BA62.5070109@rueb.com>

mrstephengross wrote:

>I'd like to do some basic SQL stuff in Python. It seems like there are
>a heck of a lot of SQL modules for Python. What's the simplest and
>easiest one to use?
>  
>
The suggestion to use sqllite is probably a good one to get started.

I'm a PostgreSQL fan and use pygresql.  It has 2 modes:  "Classic" and 
"DBAPI 2.0". 

The DPAPI 2.0 interface makes your SQL portable between RDBMs.  But you 
can't beat the classic interface for simplicity, elegance, and convenience.

With classic, just pass a dictionary and say insert this or update this 
and its done.  With selects, its easy to get your results as a dictionary.

-Steve Bergman


From cs at totallybogus.com.invalid  Sat Oct 15 10:05:49 2005
From: cs at totallybogus.com.invalid (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:05:49 -0500
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051014170644.1803.75237.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129316814_3173@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051015094021.2058.55430.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
Message-ID: <1129385149_1570@spool6-east.superfeed.net>



> I'd add also config.txt ;-)

  I did but failed to include it in the list I posted ....

  One small config problem that I haven't figured out
  how to deal with .... 

      I use a dark background with white foreground text .... 

      When posting a reply in the compose/edit window
      the cursor is  NOT  visible .... 

  Is there an incantation I can add to the config file
  that might render the cursor visible on a dark background ?
  

-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct  3 13:38:47 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 03:38:47 +1000
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.03.17.38.47.334758@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:01:37 -0500, spiffo wrote:

> The Main Issue in a nutshell
> 
> I am a corporate developer, working for a single company. Got a new project
> coming up and wondering if I should stay with Python for this new, fairly
> large project, are jump back on the 'safe' M$ bandwagon using a dot net
> language? 

What makes you think dot net will be any safer than the last half dozen
"bet the farm" technologies Microsoft used?

http://lwn.net/Articles/85797/?format=printable

(Disclaimer: the author is my boss.)


> Cross platform is NOT an issue, but COMPLETE control/compatability
> with MsSql Server (current and future versions) certainly is.

How can you have COMPLETE (your emphasis) control over software when you
don't have access to the source code?

[snip]

> Ok, I LOVE python, so that is not the issue, but, I am getting very worried
> about it's growth. I recently re-visted the web looking at alot of projects
> I assumed would be up and running by now from over a year ago, such as Boa
> Constructor, Iron Python etc... it seems all these projects get started, but
> never finished.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Why do you care if "a lot of projects" are not finished? Do you need them?
Why waste time worrying about projects that don't interest you?

What do you mean by "finished"? To my mind, a finished project is an
obsolete project that nobody is working on any more. Is that a good thing?
Is MS SQL "finished"?

> Also, more and more I need *complete* control of ms sql from my apps, which
> is simply not available from the adodbapi module I got off the internet...
> also, ms sql 2005 is getting ready to come out... what if the guy that wrote
> adodbapi.py does not feel like upgrading it so it even works with MS SQL
> SERVER 2005? Yeesh... you get the picture...

Then you could offer him some money to support it.

Or, if it is Open Source software, you could support it yourself, or hire
a consultant to do it. How much is it worth to you? What would it cost you
to *not* use Python?

If it would cost you $100,000 to develop your app in Python, and $200,000
to develop it in the alternatives, then that gives you a war-chest of
$100,000 you can spend.

(Disclaimer: the company I work for does that sort of consulting and
development work.)

How much money will you save by dropping MS SQL licence fees by migrating
to MySQL or Postgres? Will that money saved be enough to hire a full-time
developer to keep adodbapi updated?


-- 
Steven.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Thu Oct 27 08:12:49 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:12:49 +1000
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<o4idnTZJk8XB1_3eRVn-oQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.27.12.12.49.351521@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:35:33 -0500, Andy Leszczynski wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Every line = more labour for the developer = more cost and time.
>> Every line = more places for bugs to exist = more cost and time.
>>
> 
> The place I work at the creation rate is not a problem - we could crank 
> out in the team 1000s lines a week. 

Good on you. I assume those thousands of lines are good ones, and not
just churning out quantity instead of quality.

In any case, no matter how fast you are, you will be faster if you have
fewer lines to write.

> Most time we spend is on maintanance 
> . This is where Pyton shines over Java/C++/Perl. It is easy to read thus 
>   maintane.

Yes. Now imagine how much less maintenance you'd have to do with fewer
lines.

Of course, it is easy to take this to extremes. One thing which is a red
rag to me is when folks have written perfectly good, efficient, fast,
readable code in four lines, and then obsess "how can I write this as a
one-liner?". That way to the Dark Side goes: unreadable, cryptic,
unmaintainable, buggy code.

In any case, lines of code is a very poor metric for measuring programmer
productivity. I'm not even so sure it is better than nothing -- in some
cases, it is *worse* than nothing.



-- 
Steven.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 04:09:29 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:09:29 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<u321m1hsatp6cnr7ijilhotsbuoh4hko6h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ul21m1dqir60b4r450cvhkaqepi8l8lqi5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:58:42 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote, quoted or
indirectly quoted someone who said :

>>    I guess I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that 
>>Microsoft demanded you pay them per machine you sold under the table in the 
>>absence of a written contract that said that? Or are you simply saying that 
>>they changed the terms of your agreement when it came up for renewal?
>
>This was all under the table.  

The other thing to understand is almost no one buys straight from
Microsoft.  One wholesale side there are levels of distributors.

The threat is if you don't comply and they catch you, they will see to
it none of your wholesalers will sell to you.

No contracts involved anywhere.



-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From mail at eikepreuss.de  Tue Oct 18 06:02:37 2005
From: mail at eikepreuss.de (Eike Preuss)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:02:37 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F2D66F0FE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2A9E6FFF60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.17.23.16.45.433200@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2D66F0FE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3rjvdaFk0l1sU1@individual.net>

John Bokma wrote:
[snip]
> 
> I see little difference with other big companies. You're right that there 
> is no excuse for such behaviour, but if MS isn't doing it, another company 
> will take their place.
> 

And if companies are allowed to behave this way (because of your
'nice,fatalistic' argument), this will never change.
Showing companies that you don't excuse such behavior would include not
buying there products, using other products, whatever. To say that they
are just playing the evil part that somebody *has* to play, is to excuse
their behavior, IMO.

++ Eike


From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 03:06:26 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:06:26 +1000
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130207021.408597.322950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435DD972.2040005@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Simon Burton wrote:


> Yes!
> 
> I do this a lot when i have deeply nested function calls
> a->b->c->d->e
> and need to pass args  to the deep function without changing the
> middle functions.

If you find yourself passing arguments to functions 
just so they can in turn pass them on to other 
functions, you probably shouldn't be using deeply 
nested function calls and should be looking for another 
program structure.


-- 
Steven.



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Wed Oct 12 09:53:26 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:53:26 +0200
Subject: Very dumb question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1959.1129124379.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1959.1129124379.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434d1558$0$21685$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> I have a program with this code fragment:
> 
>    print len(data)
>    print data[:50]
>    raise SystemExit
> 
> This prints:
> 
> 20381
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
> 
> But if I change 50 to 51
> 
>    print len(data)
>    print data[:51]
>    raise SystemExit
> 
> then it prints
> 
> 20381
> !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
> 
> After all, only the last 50 bytes are printed. The string is the same
> (length 20381) in both cases.
(snip

> I'm sure it is my mistake, but I don't know what am I doing wrong. Do
> you have an idea?

I assume the code snippets are exact copy/paste so this is not a typo
(like print data[51:] ...) - and I can't reproduce it here... even with
a string of 20381 characters.

mmm...

type(data) ???



-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 01:20:44 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:20:44 -0700
Subject: line
Message-ID: <1d987df30510092220x2ab85939rd1a895718b619685@mail.gmail.com>

There are four points with coordinates:
2,3;4,9;1,6;3,10.
How to use Python to draw one perpendicular bisector between (2,3) and (4,9);
the other perpendicular bisector between (1,6)?(3,10);
then, makes the output like:
l1 a b c
l2 a b c
(Note: l indicates the perpendicular bisector with equation ax + by = c.)
Plus the intersection coordinates of the two perpendicular bisectors:
x,y


From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Mon Oct  3 01:32:37 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:02:37 +0530
Subject: Python CGI Script
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D2A@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


I guess your python script isn't getting executed.

a. I guess you might have to tweak the server if the script is not
getting executed.

b. Maybe your script is getting executed but you are not setting the
"Content-type" parameter which is essential for browser that it is an
html page.

Note :- Set "Content-type" to "text/html" I guess this should work


regards
prasad chandrasekaran




















--- Cancer cures smoking

-----Original Message-----
From: Efrat Regev [mailto:efrat_regev at yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 4:20 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Python CGI Script

     Hello,

     I'm a data-structures course TA trying to write a python CGI script

for automatically compiling and testing students' projects.

Unfortunately, I've run into some questions while writing this, which I

couldn't solve with the various (and helpful) python-CGI documentation.

(It's possible that I'm posting to the wrong group; if so, I'd

appreciate suggestions for the appropriate group.)


1. In my HTML page, I have the following:

<form method="post" action="submission_processor.py"

enctype="multipart/form-data">
....
</form>

     In the above, submission_processor.py is the python CGI script. I

didn't write a URL in the action field, since I'm first testing

everyting on a local machine (running FC4). The first line of

submission_processor.py is

#!/usr/bin/python

and I've done

chmod +x submission_processor.py

     When I hit the "submit" button, my browser (Firefox on FC4) doesn't

run the script; it asks me whether it should open

submission_processor.py or save it to disk. I couldn't figure out why.

2. My HTML page has the option for an instructor to list the various

submissions and scores. Obviously, this should be inaccessible to

students. The instructor has a password for doing this, therefore.

Suppose I place the password inside a python script, and give this

script only +x permission for others. Is this  adequate as far as
security?


     Thanks in advance for answering these questions.


      Efrat


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Tue Oct  4 03:50:56 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:50:56 +1000
Subject: Python TNEF (winmail.dat attachment access) library?
References: <mailman.1385.1128356022.509.python-list@python.org>
	<UbudnTAy18B6HNzeRVn-vw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <43423460.9000201@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Larry Bates wrote:

> Why not write Python class that uses CTypes and make it
> available as a recipe?  From a performance standpoint it
> is unlikely you can do better than to call the .dll and
> have it do the work for you.  Just a suggestion.

A pure Python solution will be cross-platform, while 
calling a Windows DLL will only work under Windows.

The optimal solution will be to call the DLL when it is 
available, and fall back on pure Python if it is not.


-- 
Steven.



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 15:52:56 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 12:52:56 -0700
Subject: Swig and pointers
Message-ID: <1128541976.495441.46140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I've tried sending a email to the swig mailing list 3 times...but it
never seems to get it...not sure what is going on, still looking into
it.  Until then...

I now have a C function such as...

int doIt(char *a, MY_DIGIT **digit) {
   ...
}

so I am trying to figure out how to pass in that "digit" pointer.

My SWIG interface file looks like...

extern int doIt(char *a, MY_DIGIT **digit);
%include cpointer.i
%pointer_functions(MY_DIGIT, md_prt);
%typemap(in) (char *a, MY_DIGIT **argv) {
  /* Check if is a list */
  if (PyList_Check($input)) {
    int i;
    $1 = PyList_Size($input);
    $2 = (MY_DIGIT **) malloc(($1+1)*sizeof(long *));
    for (i = 0; i < $1; i++) {
      PyObject *o = PyList_GetItem($input,i);
      if (PyString_Check(o))
	$2[i] = PyString_AsString(PyList_GetItem($input,i));
      else {
	PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"list must contain strings");
	free($2);
	return NULL;
      }
    }
    $2[i] = 0;
  } else {
    PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"not a list");
    return NULL;
  }
}

%typemap(freearg) (char *a, MY_DIGIT **argv) {
  free((MY_DIGIT *) $2);
}


..from Python I am trying

>> ptr = []
>> doIt("blah", ptr)

I thought this was the correct approach as described here:
http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/SWIGDocumentation.html#Python_nn59

However, python comes back and says "TypeError: argument number 2: a
'MY_DIGIT **' is expected, 'list([])' is received"

..any ideas?  Thanks for all the help.  The python community has been
great.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 07:27:37 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:27:37 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 02:49:38 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

>> I'm curious... where does cache live after you use cache_function to
>> memoize some function? It doesn't appear to be an attribute of the newly
>> memoized function, nor does it look like a global variable.
> 
> It's in the closure returned by cache_function.

What's a closure?

Googling on define:closure isn't very useful. There are a *lot* of
different meanings for closure, none of them to do with programming.

No, wait, I tell a lie -- Wikipedia to the rescue again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(programming)

I notice that type(some_closure) and type(ordinary_function) both return
the same result, <type 'function'>. I also notice that both the closure
and ordinary functions have an attribute "func_closure". Is there a way to
tell which is a closure and which is not? In my tests, the ordinary
function has func_closure == None, but I don't know if that will always be
the case of just for my tests.

If I wanted to inspect the value of cache, where would I find it? In other
words, if I say some_closure.SOMETHING I would get cache... what should
SOMETHING be set to?

That assumes that cache can be seen in this way. If it can't, is this a
way to create "really private" variables in Python?



-- 
Steven.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct 26 12:56:40 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:56:40 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3s9qqaFn6solU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Thanks to both of you. But that much I already knew. It's not
> that I have *no* knowledge about readline: I did at least
> read the manuals when I got stuck! But as far as I can tell
> from my experience and from the docs -- and I'm not near a 
> Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall line x 
> in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2 etc. 
> Or can you?

Subsequent pressing of C-r will show you items further down the history 
that contain the same substring. Use C-s to search the other direction.

Diez


From http  Fri Oct 14 20:47:41 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 17:47:41 -0700
Subject: deleting a parameter's name as it is passed to a function
References: <1129336848.353805.176360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xfyr3mwr6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Amir  Michail" <amichail at gmail.com> writes:
> The idea is to garbage collect the object as soon as possible, and this
> may be sooner than when dosomestuff returns.

If it's a parameter to dosomestuff, then there's still a reference
until dosomestuff returns.  Simply getting rid of the name only frees
a dictionary entry.


From bonono at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 07:13:35 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 04:13:35 -0700
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2585.1130323894.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2585.1130323894.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130325215.569388.34720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Tim Golden wrote:
> As it happens, (and I suspect I'll have to don my flameproof suit here),
> I prefer the Windows command line to bash/readline for day-to-day use,
> including in Python. Why? Because it does what I can't for the life of
> me get readline to do: you can type the first few letters of a
> previously-entered command and press F8. This brings up (going backwards
>
> with further presses) the last command which starts like that. And
> *then*
> you can just down-arrow to retrieve the commands which followed it.
> If someone can tell me how to do this with bash/readline I will be
> indebted to them and it will increase my chances of switching to Linux
> a bit! (Although not at work where I have no choice!)
I use XP as my main desktop(because of many fine details) then VNC/X
into my linux box. But command line in Windows is in no way in the same
league as *nix shell. Use <tab> for command completion and up/down
arrow or <ctrl-R> to search for history.
_____________________________________________________________________



From martin.witte at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 18:10:40 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 15:10:40 -0700
Subject: Python for search engine development
In-Reply-To: <1128288465.580210.35460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128288465.580210.35460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128291039.914526.68840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Well, Google applies some Python in their implementation, see
http://www-db.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html



From g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de  Fri Oct 28 16:16:56 2005
From: g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de (g.franzkowiak)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:16:56 +0200
Subject: popen2
In-Reply-To: <1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dju0u9$h90$1@online.de>

David Wahler schrieb:
> g.franzkowiak wrote:
> 
>>I start a process in my application with popen2.popen3('MyOtherProcess').
>>That's ok, but what can I do if the other process is running ?
>>Can I fetch some information and start with that ?
>>
>>gerd
> 
> 
> It's not clear what you're asking for. Could you please clarify?
> 
> -- David
> 

If starts a process with popen2.popen3('myprogram') and myprogram.exe is
 running before, I've a connection to the second process, not to the first.
I can find the process by name before I start a process with popen2...,
but how bcan I connect t this process with a pipe ?

gerd


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 19 16:14:18 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:14:18 -0700
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
In-Reply-To: <dj666h$hkj$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
	<VTn5f.15916$65.429948@twister1.libero.it>
	<dj666h$hkj$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <20051019201418.GB27602@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 19, Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> How to install this structure eg. on Linux? What layout do you
> recommend? It's tempting to use /opt hierarchy for installation
> target (as it gives relatively much freedom within application
> directory), but many administrators are reluctant to use this
> hierarchy and prefer more standarized targets, such as /usr or
> /usr/local.

Read about (and use) the Python-provided distutils, and let it do the
work for you.  In particular,
<http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/inst/alt-install-windows.html>
discusses installation location.  The file name is a misnomer; it's
equally applicable to linux.

It allows users to easily specify the installation prefix.  The
default should be the value of "sys.prefix".

Note that your modules/packages will be installed within your python
installation under its site-packages/ directory.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From no at spam  Wed Oct  5 14:52:41 2005
From: no at spam (Mike)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:52:41 -0400
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
In-Reply-To: <di0rmd$uln$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>
	<di0rmd$uln$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1128538344.802444@nntp.acecape.com>

For example this is what I am trying to do that is not working.

The contents of link is the reuters web page, containing

"/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&amp;amp;storyID=2005-10-05T151245Z_01_HO548006_RTRUKOC_0_UK-AIRLINES-BA.xml"

link = link.replace('&amp;amp;','&')

But if I now view the the contents link it shows it the same as when it 
was assigned.




Richard Brodie wrote:
> "Mike" <no at spam> wrote in message news:1128522921.72009 at nntp.acecape.com...
> 
> 
>>However when I pull it into python the URL ends up looking like this
>>(notice the &amp; instead of just & in the URL)
>>
>>Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Some code would be helpful: the "&amp;" is in the page source to start
> with (which is as it ought to be). What are you using to parse the HTML?
> 
> 


From michael+USENET at www.heiming.de  Sat Oct 15 14:27:15 2005
From: michael+USENET at www.heiming.de (Michael Heiming)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:27:15 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F0847955C35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <39u723-ldp.ln1@news.heiming.de>

In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>:
> Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:

>> The only thing positive about M$ entering the market, probably
>> due to their ineffective programming style they pushed Intel into
>> producing pretty fast while cheapo CPUs.

> Amazing, I thought Xah Lee was the only one able to fit so much BS in one 
> sentence.

You them to have a talent to piss-off people with just a single
terse contribution. ;-)

>> Ironically exactly this
>> is the key to Linux/*BSD success in the unix server market. ;)

> Yeah, right. 

Good riddance!


-- 
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry at urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 146: Communications satellite used by the military
for star wars.


From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Wed Oct 12 19:05:59 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:05:59 -0000
Subject: Python source code for direct access to raw sectors of harddrives
	(MFT, boot sector, etc.) in Linux/Windows
References: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <3r5e1rFhts3qU1@individual.net>

Python code for direct access to raw sectors of harddrives (MFT, boot
sector, etc.) in Linux/Windows:

http://people.freenet.de/AiTI-IT/Python/HowTo_AccessRawSectorsOfPhysicalDrives_onLinux.py
and
http://people.freenet.de/AiTI-IT/Python/HowTo_AccessRawSectorsOfPhysicalDrives_onWindows.py

Claudio
http://wiki.python.org/moin/ClaudioGrondi




From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:08:24 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:08:24 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<srtik1d92f827rt0s0aemi5a63fiocl6s2@4ax.com>
	<86achikzg5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <p72rk1trqov3c50gl7fdn8k8suihqgl0js@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:06:34 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Nah, I've just know people who spend a lot of time - and money -
>dealing with spam, and we've discussed these issues at great
>length. You haven't proposed anything that hasn't been proposed
>before, and rejected for various reasons.

As if what we are living with now were preferable to what I propose.
It is inertia. It is herd mentality that dare not leap out of the
current rut. It is not a particularly difficult technical problem. It
is figuring out how to get people to switch over.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 06:13:24 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:13:24 +0200
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
References: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com><mailman.2187.1129582031.509.python-list@python.org><1129690538.026623.28230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><1129712636.124150.248200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><fcc3e6170510250239y68afeea8k70d5eb0b196be3c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<djkvik$g4a$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <djl0g3$ivn$1@sea.gmane.org>

>> Hi, I'm new to python and just upgraded python on my system from 2.3 to 2.4.
>> My platform is Linux-2.6.9-1.667smp-i686-with-redhat-3-Heidelberg.
>>
>> Is there any way to inherit (share?) all extensions and additional modules
>> the my 2.3 have? (of course, beside re-installing everything)
>
> binary extensions should, in general, be recompiled for each new X.Y release,
> so it's usually best to reinstall them.

just noted that your subject doesn't match the rest of your message; if you're doing
a minor upgrade (X.Y.Z), it should be safe to install the new version over the old one,
and all existing extensions should continue to work.

(I say "should", but 2.4 => 2.4.1 did break a lot of things for me; 2.3 => 2.4 was a
much cleaner upgrade.  most of the 2.4.1 issues are fixed in 2.4.2, so it was probably
just a temporary glitch)

</F> 





From auch-ich-m at g-kein-spam.com  Tue Oct 18 18:02:44 2005
From: auch-ich-m at g-kein-spam.com (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOp?= Malo)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:02:44 +0200
Subject: unittest of file-reading function
References: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>
Message-ID: <3655446.HhvzFuQM1f@news.perlig.de>

* Helge Stenstroem wrote:

> Say I have a function
> 
> def f(filename):
>     result = openFileAndProcessContents(filename)
>     return result
> 
> Can that function be unit tested without having a real file as input?
> Something along the lines of
> 
> import unittest
> class tests(unittest.TestCase):
>     def test1(self):
>         fileContents = "bla bla bla\nmore bla bla bla"
>         ???   # make f read this string instead of opening a file
>         expected = expectedResult
>         result = f(filename)
>         self.assertEqual(result, expected)
> 
> One possibility would be to make the unit test write to a temporary
> file. Are there better alternatives?

You can also just replace or shadow the file/open builtin (that's what I'm
doing). Something like:

     def test1(self):
         import StringIO

         fileContents = "bla bla bla\nmore bla bla bla"

         def myfile(name, mode, buffering):
             return StringIO.StringIO(fileContents)
         testedmodule.file = myfile
         try:
             expected = expectedResult
             result = f(filename)
         finally:
             del testedmodule.file

         self.assertEqual(result, expected)

(if you're using open, replace .file with .open)
(testedmodule is of course the module where the file call happens)

nd
-- 
die (eval q-qq[Just Another Perl Hacker
]
;-)
# Andr? Malo, <http://www.perlig.de/> #


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 17 13:28:01 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:28:01 +0200
Subject: Installing Python at Work
In-Reply-To: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3ri592Fj8j0tU1@uni-berlin.de>

Nikola wrote:
> I'm currently learning Python for my own use.
> I'm considering installing it on a work laptop, knowing that it is
> non-licensed, distributable software.

Here comes a little bit nitpicking: Python is not "non-licensed" - it 
has a license, which makes it available for you free and without any 
costs and some other benefist (like the ability to create commercial 
programs with it)

The difference doesn't matter for you practically (for your current 
endeavours), but an enormous one in legalese...


Diez


From mambuhl at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 26 04:20:27 2005
From: mambuhl at earthlink.net (Martin Ambuhl)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:20:27 GMT
Subject: a Haskell a Day
In-Reply-To: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f%G7f.374$m81.214@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Xah Lee wrote:
> This is my learning notes on Haskell. I call it a-Haskell-a-day.

No one in any of
   comp.lang.perl.misc,
   comp.lang.python,
   comp.lang.c,
   comp.lang.java.programmer,
   comp.unix.programmer
gives a damn about your adventures in Haskell.
If you must mastubate, please do so in private.


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Thu Oct  6 12:39:21 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:39:21 -0600
Subject: So far
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F16@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

I like pythonWin other than the white background where you write your scripts, because after awhile it's bad on the eyes.  Does anyone know of a free IDE that will allow control of this, as well as the coloring of keywords, etc?



-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Christophe
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:50 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: So far

CppNewB a ?crit :
> I am absolutely loving my experience with Python.  Even vs. Ruby, the syntax 
> feels very clean with an emphasis on simplification.
> 
> My only complaint is that there doesn't appear to be a great commercial IDE 
> for the language.  I've tried Komodo, etc and they are nice applications, 
> but they don't feel like they give me the "power" like a Visual Studio or 
> Delphi (I wish I could articulate better the differences).    Finding a 
> descent GUI builder has been a challenge as well.  Most of them have support 
> for Dialogs, but what about more complex UI's?  I may need a resizable frame 
> within a resizable frame? I haven''t found a GUI builder with a great feel 
> yet.
> 
> Other than that, my experience has been wonderful.  Even after my 
> complaints, I plan on sticking with Python for a while. 

Try PyQT with eric3 as an IDE.

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 20:14:24 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:14:24 GMT
Subject: win32api.FindFiles Win2003, problem with Short Name
In-Reply-To: <1129560250.458465.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129245942.185252.171220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<p%C3f.17259$U51.14445@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<1129315861.886705.116980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<RMZ3f.18128$U51.13464@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<1129560250.458465.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <A7X4f.20815$U51.17703@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Frank Borell:

> My initial issue was trying to rename/move files on a SAN that were
> written from Mac's. 

    I've never used a SAN. It is possible that it has its own name 
system and what you are seeing is the result of different views of that.

 > While the easier messed up files names were easy to
> convert and move, I quickly came across a few types that were not.
> Files with spaces at the end seemed to only be solved with the
> win32api.FindFiles(fullpath + '*').

    Does performing a dir /X from the command line show the short names 
from the 2003 system? If so it means that there are APIs capable of 
finding the information so I'd be trying to use ctypes to call the 
underlying wide character FindFirstFileExW function.

> ^2aCOSBY SON PROFILE^2fNYT18|A^2ACOSB.1A7

    This was hex escaped from *COSBY SON PROFILE/NYT18.

    Neil


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Oct 11 21:34:48 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:34:48 -0500
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
In-Reply-To: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>
References: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>
Message-ID: <200510112034.48195.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Wednesday 12 October 2005 05:28 pm, Andrea Gavana wrote:
> Now my question: is it possible to transform the pixels 
colours in order to have another basic colour (say blue)? 
In other words, the predominant colour will become the 
blue, with other pixels in a brighter or darker blue to 
give the same 3D effects.

Have a look at the colorsys module. This will allow you
to define colors in HSV space, then convert to RGB for
image generation.  What you want to do sounds like changing
only the Hue (H) of the colors.

PIL will provide means for efficiently mapping base colors
to target colors (IIRC, you'll probably use the 'point'
method of Image objects, but check the manual).

Once you have that, you can just decide on hues for each
button, then do an individual replacement like this:

new_hue   # your 'basic color', just the hue part
rgb_base  # color from the basic button image
rgb_new   # the new color you want to replace rgb_base with

rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb( (new_hue,) + rgb_to_hsv(rgb_base)[1:])

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 29 18:36:47 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:36:47 -0400
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net>
	<3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net> <864q70evci.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<3si036Fofks2U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <86k6fwc5mo.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Paul Watson" <pwatson at redlinepy.com> writes:

> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:864q70evci.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> "Paul Watson" <pwatson at redlinepy.com> writes:
> ...
>> Did you do timings on it vs. mmap? Having to copy the data multiple
>> times to deal with the overlap - thanks to strings being immutable -
>> would seem to be a lose, and makes me wonder how it could be faster
>> than mmap in general.
>
> The only thing copied is a string one byte less than the search string for 
> each block.

Um - you removed the code, but I could have *sworn* that it did
something like:

          buf = buf[testlen:] + f.read(bufsize - testlen)

which should cause the the creation of three strings: the last few
bytes of the old buffer, a new bufferfull from the read, then the sum
of those two - created by copying the first two into a new string. So
you wind up copying all the data.
          
Which, as you showed, doesn't take nearly as much time as using mmap.

       Thanks,
       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 18:41:36 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 22:41:36 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<Xns96F0C6A35F486castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<4352899f.160023952@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2B3FB7605Ccastleamber@130.133.1.4>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

> On 16 Oct 2005 00:31:38 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> 
>>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 GMT, Roedy Green
>>> <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote: 
>>> 
>>>>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted
>>>>: 
>>>>
>>>>>I think e-mail should be text only.
>>> I think that is a useful base standard, which allows easy creation
>>> of ad-hoc tools to search and extract data from your archives, etc. 
>>>>
>>>>I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated
>>>>with HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.
>>>>
>>>>But HTML is not the problem!
>>> Right, it's what the HTML-interpreting engines might do that is
>>> the problem.
>>
>>You mean the same problem as for example using a very long header in 
>>your email to cause a buffer overflow? That is possible with plain 
>>ASCII, and has been done.
> Are you trolling? No, I don't mean the same problem.
> What an HTML interpreter does by _design_ is not in the same category
> as an implementation error enabling a root exploit.

Ok, what do you think are the bad things in HTML design? (For email that 
is). I can name only two:

1 - remote loading of objects
2 - when a user clicks on a link, this can be seen as a confirmation.

The latter is also possible in the email clients I have used when plain 
text is used. Ok, you can say that in HTML you can hide somewhat the 
destination, e.g. <a href="http://example.com/user-1234">Check out this
</a>. 

OTOH, you are not forced not to read the status bar.

[ ... ]

> Don't get me wrong, I said "all good stuff," as far as control of
> presentation is concerned. And I would be happy to have nice graphic
> email if I could get it as a self-contained file from my ISP's mail
> server, and I had a presentation engine involved that I knew was
> guaranteed to stick to presentation work without communicating over
> the web or doing anything else without my knowledge. 
> 
> I don't see any technical obstacle to that, but HTML is not designed
> to be the solution to that.

Of course: I can compose an HTML file which has the graphics embedded in 
HTML which works in the client I am using. Another option is to include 
the graphics as attachements (this works). I am convinced this also 
works for stylesheets and any other object. So in short, it's possible 
to get a self-contained email.

[ pdf ]
>>Ah, and that's exploit free?
> That's not the issue. All programs can have the kind of exploit
> possibilities that you are talking about. A program with the single
> purpose of interpreting a page description and presenting it
> graphically is easier to eliminate exploitable vulnerabilities from
> than a program that involves a lot of additional stuff.

I thought it was possible to add a remote link to PDF (but I couldn't 
make one with OOo -> export pdf). But I am afraid that as soon as PDF is 
taking over the role of HTML in email, it will certainly going to 
support things you consider harmfull (and are in some occasions, I mean, 
I agree that tracking of images in spam is a bad thing).

>>>>Program listings are much more readable on my website.
>>> IMO FOSS pdf could provide all the layout benefits while
>>> avoiding (allowing for bugs) all the downsides of X/HTML in emails.
>>
>>Amazing, so one data format that's open is better compared to another 
>>open data format based on what?
> I take it you don't understand the difference between pdf and html?
> 
> A primary thing is the monitorable data-moving activity that is
> involved. A pdf can have links, but they are not followed (not
> counting what closed source proprietary softare might risk a PR black
> eye doing) in the process of opening and presenting the document to
> you.

And a link in an HTML file is? (Ok, there are so called caching systems 
that do this with browsers).
 
> The whole file comes as a single unit normally

As I stated, this is possible with HTML, at least Firefox does support 
inline images (data scheme). CSS can already be included in the file 
itself.

> (though I could see the
> temptation to implement automatic font downloads and enable font-bugs
> like web-bugs based on that, though in a FOSS implementation, such
> [mal]features could easily be made optional). 
> 
> You could say features can be optional re HTML CSS and JS and all the
> other automatic web-accessing and other features of HTML, but by the
> time you made them all optional and turned them off, you wouldn't see
> the HTML-author's intended presentation. That is not the case with
> pdf. Also, a single pdf file would be coming from one place. There is
> not an on-the-fly gathering of elements that you have to use a special
> tool to determine for sure where all the requests to get them went, or
> to prevent them from going, and having the activity logged, not to
> mention what the interpretation of unknown elements might do. 

If it's not possible to remote link to an image in PDF, I wouldn't be 
amazed that if it is replacing HTML in email, such a thing will be 
added.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From desparn at wtf.com  Mon Oct 10 14:46:19 2005
From: desparn at wtf.com (Rick Wotnaz)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:46:19 -0400
Subject: convert char to byte representation
References: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434ab2f6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96EB96C286A00reederz@63.223.7.253>

Scott David Daniels <scott.daniels at acm.org> wrote in
news:434ab2f6$1 at nntp0.pdx.net: 

> Philipp H. Mohr wrote:
>> I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a
>> string with its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a
>> char into its byte representation. 
> ord('a') == 97; chr(97) == 'a'; "ord" gives you the value of the
> byte. 
> 
>> e.g. everything between $ and * needs to be xor:
>>      $GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,40,25,51,287,00,05,25,
>>      103,44* 
>> to get the checksum.
> 
> Probably you want a byte-array here, rather than going
> char-by-char. Try:
>      import array
>      base = ('$GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,'
>              '40,25,51,287,00,05,25,103,44*')
>      bytes = array.array('b', base[1 : -1])
>      for i in reversed(range(len(bytes))):
>      bytes[i] ^= bytes[i-1]
>      result = bytes.tostring()
> 
> --Scott David Daniels
> scott.daniels at acm.org
> 

What is the byte representation of 287?

-- 
rzed


From jabel at plus.net  Wed Oct 12 03:56:41 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:56:41 +0100
Subject: Make SimpleXMLRPCServer Require Auth?
Message-ID: <434CC1B9.2030005@plus.net>

Hi,

I implemented a SimpleXMLRPCServer, modified it slightly to restrict 
clients based on their IP, but I need to take it a stage further, and 
add user authentication.  I would appreciate any pointers as to how I 
might go about this, or any packages which already provide this.  I'm 
guessing that I'll need to make changes to BaseHTTPServer.

Thanks

J


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct  5 07:16:47 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 11:16:47 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk751c.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E6695EF22B6duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk7a5j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96E67B9C7997Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> As far as I understand people don't like global very much so I don't
> expect that a second keyword with the same kind of behaviour has
> any chance.

That's why the behaviour I suggest is different than the current behaviour 
of global. Arguments against global (it is the only non-executable 
statement in Python & it is confusing because people don't understand the 
declaration goes inside the function instead of at global scope) don't 
apply.

> 
>> The 
>> 'global' keyword itself would be much improved if it appeared on the
>> same line as the assignment rather than as a separate declaration.
>>
>> e.g. something like:
>>
>> var1 = 0
>>
>> def f():
>>   var2 = 0
>>
>>   def g():
>>      outer var2 = 1 # Assign to outer variable
>>      global var1 = 1 # Assign to global
> 
> And what would the following do:
> 
> def f():
> 
>   var = 0
> 
>   def g():
> 
>     var = 1
> 
>     def h():
> 
>       outer var = 2 * var + 1
> 
>     h()
>     print var
> 
>   g()
>   print var
> 
> f()
> 
It would follow the principle of least surprise and set the value of var in 
g() of course. The variable in f is hidden, and if you didn't mean to hide 
it you didn't need to give the two variables the same name.

So the output would be:
3
0

(output verified by using my hack for setting scoped variables:)
-------------------------------
from hack import *
def f():
  var = 0

  def g():
    var = 1

    def h():
      assign(lambda: var, 2 * var + 1)

    h()
    print var

  g()
  print var

f()
-------------------------------


From yuxi at ece.gatech.edu  Mon Oct 31 04:36:37 2005
From: yuxi at ece.gatech.edu (Yu-Xi Lim)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 04:36:37 -0500
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
In-Reply-To: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk4oj4$oq3$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>

Johnny Lee wrote:
<snip>
>    Why are there so many nonsense tails? thanks for your help.

I guess you were expecting 0.039? You first need to understand floating 
point numbers:

http://docs.python.org/tut/node16.html

What you see are the effects of representation errors.

The solution is presented here:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0327.html

But briefly, it means your code should read:

from decimal import *
t1 = "1130748744"
t2 = "461"
t3 = "1130748744"
t4 = "500"
time1 = t1+"."+t2
time2 = t3+"."+t4
print time1, time2
Decimal(time2) - Decimal(time1)


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 15 17:06:14 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:06:14 +0200
Subject: Some set operators
References: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dirr07$9g3$1@sea.gmane.org>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

> Sometimes I suggest to add things to the language (like adding some set
> methods to dicts), but I've seen that I tend to forget the meaning of
> six set/frozenset operators:
>
> s & t  s &= t
> s | t  s |= t
> s ^ t  s ^= t
>
> My suggestion is to remove them, and keep them only as explicit
> non-operator versions (.symmetric_difference(), .update(),
> .intersection_update(), etc). But maybe now it's too much late to
> remove them... Maybe someone gentle can explain me the advantage
> of having/keeping them.

&, |, and ^ are Python's standard operators for AND, OR, and XOR.  they
make as much sense for sets as they do for bitpatterns...

</F>





From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Thu Oct 13 09:12:06 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:12:06 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1945.1129109694.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ce9x.v65tbpm7xivfN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1129154738.455062.140750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4dm1w.3l3ch2p04dd4N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Rune Strand <rune.strand at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok, Alex. I know a good explanation when I see one. Thanks!

You're welcome!  I've tried to give good (but shorter!-) explanations in
the Nutshell, too, but of course it's easier to aim a specific
explanation to a specific questioner than to try and clarify
"everything" for "everybody" (particularly because, when posting, I'm
not forced to be concise as I am when writing books or articles, so I
can aim more relentlessly for completeness and precision...).


Alex


From dalloliogm at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 09:05:31 2005
From: dalloliogm at gmail.com (Giovanni Dall'Olio)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 06:05:31 -0700
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2585.1130323894.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2585.1130323894.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130331931.391249.96680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Tim Golden ha scritto:


> As it happens, (and I suspect I'll have to don my flameproof suit here),
> I prefer the Windows command line to bash/readline for day-to-day use,
> including in Python. Why? Because it does what I can't for the life of
> me get readline to do: you can type the first few letters of a
> previously-entered command and press F8. This brings up (going backwards
>
> with further presses) the last command which starts like that. And
> *then*

Argh!! ;)
How about reading a simple tutorial on bash?
You can use even '!' to recall other commands in history.
For example, you can type '!p<Enter>' and it will call the last command
starting with 'p', without having to search for it (and if you want,
you can use CTRL+r)
You can use '!!' to recall the last command, or '!-#' for the other
ones. You can define single arguments, like !-#:2, to call only parts
of a old command.
With bash, you can repeat instructions (using 'for', 'while', and so
on) and use some basic logic to determine if launching them. You can
call easily any program installed in the computer, or in other ones,
too.
Really, are you joking? ;) Do you know that you can use the '<Tab>' key
to auto-fill a command? isn't this useful? I tried to use the windows
command line sometimes, but I found it so slow and uncorfortable, that
I thought that noone can use it. I really don't understand what you
want to say with this topic!

p.s. if you want a tip, leave using desktop manager and begin using the
command line. You will like it.



From OurLab at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 23:54:04 2005
From: OurLab at gmail.com (Alex)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 20:54:04 -0700
Subject: pickling class instances with __slots__
Message-ID: <1130558044.085887.104400@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I would greatly appreciate an advice on the following matter that was
very much discussed circa 2002 but in all this discussion I could not
find the final answer with a code example. Neither I can find it in
Python documentation.


I have a series of new classes with child-parent relationship and each
has unique __slots__. They don't have __dict__ . I need to be able to
pickle and unpickle them. As far as I could understand, I need to
provide __getstate__  and  __setstate__ methods for each class. Is
there a universally accepted code for each method? If so, what is it?
If there is no standard, what works?


TIA


Alex



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 06:48:37 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:48:37 +0100
Subject: Minimizing Connection reset by peer exceptions
In-Reply-To: <1129804084.245716.242040@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129777447.614500.232050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129804084.245716.242040@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj7sm1$e8t$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ben Sizer wrote:
> mirandacascade at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Occasionally (perhaps 5% of the time) the following exception gets
>>raised:
>>
>>(10054, 'Connection reset by peer')
> 
> 
> Generally this just means the connection has closed through some
> unusual means, perhaps by being turned off, or a network cable being
> unplugged, or a timeout along the way, etc. 5% is a high figure, but
> perhaps you connect to hosts that are unreliable for some reason.
> 
> You don't have control over this really; just make sure you handle the
> exception. Such is life, when dealing with networking.
> 
Do note, though, that if you aren't using some means (threading, 
forking, etc) of handling the connections asynchronously then your 
server will normally only queue a very limited number of connections 
(usually 5 at most).

So if your service takes a while to run then it's possible that 
connection requests will be rejected when the queue is full, which might 
*possibly* result in the error you are seeing.

Feel free to ignore this if you only have one client at a time.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 24 06:24:16 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:24:16 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-23, David Schwartz schreef <davids at webmaster.com>:
>
> "Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
> message news:s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc at 4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:24 -0700, "David Schwartz"
>> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :
>
>>>    If the deal didn't give you more than it cost you, all you had to do 
>>> was
>>>say 'no'. I understand the frustration at being forced to pay for 
>>>something
>>>what it is worth.
>
>> The choice was go along with MS arm twisting or go out of business.
>
>     Only because the product they were providing you was so important you 
> were unable to do business without it.
>
>> I call that extortion.
>
>     Microsoft had something you need so badly that you could not go into 
> business without it. So they demanded from you that you pay them what their 
> software was actually worth to you. That is not extortion. Everyone who 
> sells something tries to get the maximum possible value for it.

If a company wants to be paid for things it didn't deliver, then I think
that is extortion. Microsoft want te be paid a license on windows for
P.C.'s that were sold without windows.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From lassevk at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 02:52:48 2005
From: lassevk at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 23:52:48 -0700
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ok, that one looks more sleak than what I came up with.

Couple of things I learn from your solution, please correct me if I
misunderstood something:

1. list containing other lists will sort itself based on first element
on lists inside ?
2. sort(), pop() is not costly operations

Other than that you seem to not use the cmp operator but that's easily
fixed.

This one looks much better than mine, here's what I came up with:

def merge_sorted(iterables, comparer=None):
    """
    Generator that will take a list of iterables/generators that is
individually sorted, and then produce
    values in a sorted order by taking the lowest value from each
source each call.

    @param iterables: List of iterables/generators to retrieve values
from
    @type iterables: List of iterables/generators

    @param comparer: Optional fn(v1, v2) function that can compare two
values, should return <0 if v1<v2,
        >0 if v1>v2 and ==0 if v1==v2.
    @type comparer: function-object, example: lambda x, y: x-y

    @note: The "list of iterables" can actually be anything that
produces a list of iterables, so you can
        use a function that yields lists for instance.
    """

    # First convert whatever we're given into a list of sources
    iterables = [iterable for iterable in iterables]

    # This series of if-statements will determine how many sources we
have and work out sub-problems
    # that are manageable.
    if len(iterables) != 2:
        if len(iterables) == 0:
            # List, but no sources
            pass
        elif len(iterables) == 1:
            # Only 1 source, just return its contents
            for value in iterables[0]:
                yield value
        elif len(iterables) == 3:
            # 3 sources, sub-divide into 0 <--> (1, 2)
            left_iterable = iterables[0]
            right_iterable = merge_sorted([iterables[1], iterables[2]],
comparer)
            for value in merge_sorted([left_iterable, right_iterable],
comparer):
                yield value
        elif len(iterables) == 4:
            # 4 sources, sub-divide into (0, 1) <--> (2, 3)
            left_iterable = merge_sorted([iterables[0], iterables[1]],
comparer)
            right_iterable = merge_sorted([iterables[2], iterables[3]],
comparer)
            for value in merge_sorted((left_iterable, right_iterable),
comparer):
                yield value
        elif len(iterables) > 4:
            # >4 sources, sub-divide into (0, 1) <--> (2, ...)
            left_iterable = merge_sorted([iterables[0], iterables[1]],
comparer)
            right_iterable = merge_sorted(iterables[2:], comparer)
            for value in merge_sorted((left_iterable, right_iterable),
comparer):
                yield value
        raise StopIteration

    # The method will only get here if there is only two sources, which
is an easy case to handle
    i1 = iter(iterables[0])
    i2 = iter(iterables[1])

    # Grab the first two values from the two sources, if possible
    try:
        v1 = i1.next()
        has_v1 = True
    except StopIteration:
        has_v1 = False
    try:
        v2 = i2.next()
        has_v2 = True
    except StopIteration:
        has_v2 = False

    # As long as we got values from both generates/iterators/whatever,
compare and yield the lowest of the
    # two, and then get the next value from the corresponding source
    while has_v1 and has_v2:
        # Work out which of v1 and v2 comes first
        if comparer is not None:
            comp = comparer(v1, v2)
            if comp <= 0:
                yield_v1 = True
            else:
                yield_v1 = False
        else:
            if v1 <= v2:
                yield_v1 = True
            else:
                yield_v1 = False

        # Yield the next value, then grab a new value from the
corresponding source
        if yield_v1:
            yield v1
            try:
                v1 = i1.next()
            except StopIteration:
                has_v1 = False
        else:
            yield v2
            try:
                v2 = i2.next()
            except StopIteration:
                has_v2 = False

    # When we get here, we got 3 possibilities:
    #  1. has_v1 == True, has_v2 == False --> yield rest of v1/i1 and
just exit on StopIteration exception
    #  2. has_v1 == False, has_v1 == True --> yield rest of v2/i2 and
just exit on StopIteration exception
    #  3. has_v1 == has_v2 == False --> while-loops will skip, function
falls off the end
    while has_v1:
        yield v1
        v1 = i1.next()
    while has_v2:
        yield v2
        v2 = i2.next()



From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 09:23:08 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:23:08 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128432188.408503.309280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

>was using to track clients and transactions.  He couldn't demonstrate
>the program for one reason or another because it was protected in a way
>that neither could circumvent. (She didn't remember how it was
>protected, she had hired this person a long time ago.)

I'd venture to guess that neither of the people above knew much about
programming. So do the same, create a security measure that protects
against this level of 'threat'.

As others have pointed out the simplest way would be to detect the
presence of a hidden file, or some hardcoded system value, mac address
etc. Obscure this step even more by encrypting some of the information
so that one can't just simply view it in a hex editor.

Istvan.



From mhamilt at sandia.gov  Tue Oct 18 14:59:06 2005
From: mhamilt at sandia.gov (Mark E. Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:59:06 -0600
Subject: Python script produces "sem_trywait: Permission denied"
Message-ID: <435545FA.6010606@sandia.gov>

Hi,

I've seen this question posted many places arount the Internet, but I've 
not seen any answers. We've been seeing this same error for some time, 
probably as long as Hudson has (given that it's now mid-October 2005); 
we just ignored it, since it didn't seem to cause problems.

However, if anyone does have a solution to it I'd like to see it. I hate 
having unresolved wierdnesses in our code.

-- 
----------------
Mark E. Hamilton
Orion International Technologies, Inc.
Sandia National Laboratory, NM.
505-844-7666



From steve at aol.com  Thu Oct 27 17:19:32 2005
From: steve at aol.com (steve)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 05:19:32 +0800
Subject: a Haskell a Day
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3vmul1hli2t3cuquab99fnlg2g9abqkj3o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djrg94071g@news3.newsguy.com>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:35:49 +0800, Roedy Green wrote
(in article <3vmul1hli2t3cuquab99fnlg2g9abqkj3o at 4ax.com>):

> On 26 Oct 2005 00:38:23 -0700, "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote,
> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> 
>> A Haskell A Day: Manifesto
> This is the wrong newsgroup. Had you done the same for Java,
> comp.lang.java.help would be the place to post it.
> 


Stupid newbi  wants $1 if you spend more  than 30 minutes on his webshite, 
looking at it you would be hard pressed to spend 30 seconds.
Anyway at least we know where to find him.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 22:50:04 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:50:04 -0700
Subject: Generic utility class for passing data
References: <1u-dnSkSzdnsfP_enZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1h55r01.ovyr63zw37r6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gordon Airporte <JHoover at fbi.gov> wrote:

> I'm wondering if this is might be bad practice. Sometimes when I need to

I hope not, 'cuz I suggested that years ago on the Cookbook (under the
name of Bunch) with several successive refinements.

> class Dummy:
>       pass
> 
> Then when I need to pass some related data, Python lets me do this:
> 
> prefill = Dummy()
> prefill.foreground = 'blue'  #"foreground" is made up on the fly
> prefill.background = 'red'
> prefill.pattern = mypattern
> return prefill

Sure, but you can do even better:

class Dummy(object):
    def __init__(self, **kwds): self.__dict__ = kwds

prefill = Dummy(foreground='blue', background='red', pattern=mypattern)
return prefill


Alex


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 17:30:11 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:30:11 +0200
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129748724.890082.70380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj6dt5$hbk$1@sea.gmane.org>

robinsiebler at gmail.com wrote:

> Try 4NT (http://www.jpsoft.com).  It is like cmd on steroids.  I've
> been using it for years and it is the *only* thing that makes powerful
> batch files possible on Windows.

why bother with "powerful batch files" when you can use a real programming
language ?

</F>





From http  Thu Oct 13 04:04:17 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 01:04:17 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
	<86r7aqugmk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<iitrk1dmcr1eoiei7tuqrels1c86du7dn5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xk6ghkflq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> Next Mr. Phish had to present his passport etc when he got his Thawte
> ID.  Now Interpol has a much better handle on putting him in jail.
> He can't repudiate his phishing attempt.

Any underage drinker in a college town can tell you a hundred ways to
get sufficient fake ID to get around that.

See also: http://www.ahbl.org/funny/response1.php

I'll let others here fill in the blanks.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Oct 12 20:10:53 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 17:10:53 -0700
Subject: Multiple assignments simplification
Message-ID: <1129162253.273873.277050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The current version of ShedSkin (http://shedskin.sourceforge.net/
experimental Python to C++ compiler) is rather alpha, and the
development work is focused on debugging and implementing some more
basic Python functionality. But hopefully in future versions more work
will be spent to make the resulting C++ programs as fast as possible.

One of the many possible details that may be improved, is the compiling
to C++ of the Python "parallel" assignments. There are complex
situations like this one:

| a = 1
| b = 2
| c = 3
| def fun(a):
|   global b
|   return c, b ** (b+a)
| (a, b), c = fun(a), a
| print a, b, c # prints 3 8 1


Probably it isn't necessary to find an optimal solution for complex
situations like this one, ShedSkin (SS) uses a basic and simple
algorithm to translate all the complex cases.

But maybe for simpler and more regular situations it can be useful to
find better/optimal solution, like with a swap:

a = 1
b = 2
a, b = b, a

At the moment SS translates it as something like:

int __0, __1, a, b;
int __main() {
  a = 1;
  b = 2;
  __0 = b;
  __1 = a;
  a = __0;
  b = __1;

SS just copies all the variables before the assignment.
If such swap is inside a very long loop, then maybe a simplification
can speed up a program a little (I don't know if C++ compilers can do
such optimizations).

This is another example of such "regular" situations:

a, b, c, d, e, f = range(6)
a, b, c, d, e = b, d, e, f, c
print a, b, c, d, e, f
At the moment SS translates its central part just as:

__1 = b;
__2 = d;
__3 = e;
__4 = f;
__5 = c;
a = __1;
b = __2;
c = __3;
d = __4;
e = __5;

The two sides of the assignment aren't just permutations, because some
variables can be different (like f), and some variables can be present
two or more times (duplication), some other can be absent.
A code like this can be faster (and hopefully still correct):

a = b
aux_1 = c
c = e
e = aux_1
b = d
d = f

That assignment line of code can be represented as:
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [1, 3, 4, 5, 2]
(Numbers represent variables. The first list is always sorted,
equivalent to range(n) ).

Do you know some algorithm (or you can give some suggestions) to
minimize the number of simple assignments needed for a "regular"
situation like that?

Note that in most situations the number of variables is quite small
(but it can be big).
(Also note that in the "regular" situation I've ignored the problem of
mixed variable types, this is something SS has to take care too).

Bye and thank you,
bearophile



From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct  1 19:15:57 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:15:57 GMT
Subject: Class Help
In-Reply-To: <1KE%e.162132$p_1.55983@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1KE%e.162132$p_1.55983@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <NME%e.162133$p_1.59334@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Ron Adam wrote:

> Also,
> 
> In your example 'q' is assigned the value 2, but as soon as the method 
> 'y' exits, it is lost.  To keep it around you want to assign it to self.y.

Ooops,  That should say ...
    "To keep it around you want to assign it to self.q."   <---self.q

Cheers,
Ron


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Fri Oct 14 14:02:44 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:02:44 -0500
Subject: Searching files in directories
In-Reply-To: <1129311080.579292.112990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129311080.579292.112990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434FF2C4.3040307@websafe.com>

Not tested but should be close:

import os
import shutil

files = ['file1.txt']
source_directory      = '/tmp/source/'
destination_directory = '/tmp/destination/'

for file in files:
    src=os.path.join(source_directory, file
    dst=os.path.join(destination_directory, file
    if os.path.exists(os.path.join(source_directory, file):
        shutil.copy(src, dst)

-Larry Bates

pkilambi at gmail.com wrote:
> can anyone help me with this...
> 
> I want to search for a list for files in a given directory and if it
> exists copy them to destination directory
> 
> so what i am looking for is :
> 
> file = 'file1.txt'
> source_directory      = '/tmp/source/'
> destination_directory = '/tmp/destination/'
> 
> so If the file exists in source_directory cp that file to the
> destination_directory..
> 
> hope I am clear
> 


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 08:54:35 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 05:54:35 -0700
Subject: xml-rpc - adodb - None type - DateTime type
Message-ID: <1130504075.327403.236240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi to all,

I have functions defined in an xml-rpc server. Some functions query to
a Postgres database (using adodb) and return its recordset. So, if some
xml-rpc client runs the mentioned function, it will retrieve the
recordset. The problem is that if a retrieved field has the Null value
or the Date value (DateTime Database format), then, the retrieved
recordset in the python program will have the 'None' value or the
DateTime type object value.

xml-rpc isn't able to accept any type of value, so I have to solve it.

I can replace all None values with the string 'Null', there's no
problem, but I can't detect the DateTime type object I retrieve from
the database.

I have something like this:
def xmlrpc_function():
    conn = adodb.NewADOConnection('postgres')
    conn.Connect(host,user,password,database)
    rs = conn.Exec("select * from table")
    result = []
    i = 0
    while not rs.EOF:
        row = rs.GetRowAssoc(False)
        for key, value in row.items():
            if value==None:
                row[key]='Null'
        result.append(row)
        i = i + 1
        rs.MoveNext()
    rs.Close()

    print result
    return result

The problem here is that if row[key] == <type 'DateTime' object
etc...>, then I don't know what to do for detect it and make the
appropriate change to string.

Console output:
[{'name': 'Null', 'date': <DateTime object for '2005-09-01 00:00:00.00'
at 1515f60>}]

If you consult the python manual, you'll see that there's no 'DateTime'
type object, so I can't do something like:

if value==DateTimeType:
    ...

I only need to know which type of data is a field for make the change
according to what can I pass through the xml-rpc.

Any help?

Thanks



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Oct 19 20:12:49 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 17:12:49 -0700
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11ld9qtgvead8d0@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.19.23.23.34.109772@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dj6ne1$iq4$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <pan.2005.10.19.23.23.34.109772 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:06:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>> Python doesn't have variables.
>> 
>> Python has objects of various types.  You can bind 0 or more
>> names an object.
>
>I frequently use "variable" as a synonym for "name" when talking about
>Python code. Do people think I am wrong to do so?

Wrong?  No.  Bad idea?  Possibly, depending on context.  I'm often using
"variable" in casual conversation -- it's hard to break the habit of
thirty years of programming!  But I try very hard to stick with "name"
when I'm doing formal instruction.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur."  --Red Adair


From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Tue Oct 11 03:48:13 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:48:13 +0400
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
In-Reply-To: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051011114813.7c9ad3fd.jk@ospaz.ru>

On 10 Oct 2005 22:58:08 -0700
mystilleef at gmail.com wrote:

> How do I implement this in my application written in python?

Google for "python daemonize".

-- 
jk


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 17 06:24:27 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 10:24:27 GMT
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4knsn.1tihnpm15d5y4lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl6uur.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-17, Alex Martelli schreef <aleaxit at yahoo.com>:
><themightydoyle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
>> a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
>> timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.
>
> Definitely a better architecture.  Anyway, one supported way for a
> thread to raise an exception in a different thread is function
> thread.interrupt_main(), which raises a KeyboardInterrupt in the *main*
> thread (the one thread that's running at the beginning of your program).
>
> There's also a supported, documented function to raise any given
> exception in any existing thread, but it's deliberately NOT directly
> exposed to Python code -- you need a few lines of  C-coded extension (or
> pyrex, ctypes, etc, etc) to get at the functionality.  This small but
> non-null amount of "attrition" was deliberately put there to avoid
> casual overuse of a facility intended only to help in very peculiar
> cases (essentially in debuggers &c, where the thread's code may be buggy
> and fail to check a keep-alive flag correctly...!-).

I find this rather arrogant. It is not up to the developers of python
to decide how the users of python will use the language. If someone
has use of specific functionality he shouldn't be stopped because his
use is outside the intentions of the developers.

Just suppose you are writing a chess program. You let the program
"think" while it is the users move, but this thinking has to be
interrupted and some cleanup has to be made after the users move
has made a lot of this thinking obsolete by his move. Such code
could be mixture of loops and recursion that makes use of a simple
flag to end it all, unpractical. Use of an exception raised from
somewhere else would IMO in this case be an acceptable choice.

Why should the coder of this software have to go through this
deliberate set up attrition, to get at this functionality, just
because it wasn't intented to be used in such a way by the
developers?

As far as I know, pyrex and ctypes weren't intended to get
at the Python/C api. But they didn't create extra hurdles
for those who could use it that way.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Mon Oct  3 06:59:37 2005
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:59:37 +0200
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
References: <mailman.1357.1128292457.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhr2up$pkl$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>


"David Pratt" <fairwinds at eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.1357.1128292457.509.python-list at python.org...
> Hi.  Is anyone aware of any python based unacceptable language filter
> code to scan and detect bad language in text from uploads etc.
>
> Many thanks.
> David

Look up Spambayes - if you can filter on terms like "dear friend" you can
filter on the inverse too, no? It needs samples to work with.




From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sat Oct 29 08:46:55 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:46:55 +0100
Subject: Oh what a twisted thread we weave....
In-Reply-To: <1130545786.627404.102940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130545786.627404.102940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510291338050.19284@urchin.earth.li>

On Sat, 28 Oct 2005, GregM wrote:

> ST_zeroMatch = 'You found 0 products'
> ST_zeroMatch2 = 'There are no products matching your selection'
>
> # why does this always drop through even though the If should be true.
> 		if (ST_zeroMatch or ST_zeroMatch2) in self.webpg:

This code - i do not think it means what you think it means. Specifically, 
it doesn't mean "is either of ST_zeroMatch or ST_zeroMatch2 in 
self.webpg"; what it means is "apply the 'or' opereator to ST_zeroMatch 
and ST_zeroMatch2, then check if the result is in self.webpg". The result 
of applying the or operator to two nonempty strings is the left-hand 
string; your code is thus equivalent to

if ST_zeroMatch in self.webpg:

Which will work in cases where your page says 'You found 0 products', but 
not in cases where it says 'There are no products matching your 
selection'.

What you want is:

if (ST_zeroMatch in self.webpg) or (ST_zeroMatch2 in self.webpg):

Or something like that.

You say that you have a single-threaded version of this that works; 
presumably, you have a working version of this logic in there. Did you 
write the threaded version from scratch? Often a bad move!

tom

-- 
It's the 21st century, man - we rue _minutes_. -- Benjamin Rosenbaum


From nestleNOSPAM12 at comcast.net  Fri Oct 21 19:27:01 2005
From: nestleNOSPAM12 at comcast.net (Bryan)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:27:01 -0600
Subject: python -m pdb questions
Message-ID: <LNSdnc4HHI7W5MTeRVn-jA@comcast.com>

So I am new to the whole python thing, be nice.

So I do a b /foo/foo.py :10

(if I do a foo.py:10 it says not in sys.path)

Then a continue... my breakpoint isn't hit.

but if I am in main.py and do a b /foo/main.py:10 I hit the breakpoint.

also I can't get b fooMethod to ever take, always get not in sys.path

What am I missing?  Or is pdb fubar?

Suse93 btw.

thanks,

Bryan 




From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct  4 03:52:29 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 07:52:29 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private,
	protected and  public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.29.14.16.01.588394@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1142.1128003951.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhgvob$h7g$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<slrndjpp87.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dhjnst$2ha$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<slrndk1tjq.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.13.03.845134@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndk4d5t.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:14:34 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> If you are in a project with
>> multiple authors, your usage of private variables can break code
>> that other people rely on.
>
> If you are in a project with multiple authors, your usage of PUBLIC
> variables can break code that other people rely on.

Maybe then those shouldn't have been public variables in the first.

> That's why you have testing. You do test, don't you?

You do seem to think that testing will solve everything and
that any extra protection to get code correct is thus a
waste of time.

I don't share that view.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 17 15:57:27 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:57:27 +0200
Subject: Repost: Text not showing up
In-Reply-To: <3ridbuFjsoctU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <434FADFA.8050302@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2146.1129535557.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ridbuFjsoctU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3rie18Fjrq1oU1@uni-berlin.de>

> The problem is that the changes take effect after gtk has reentered its 
> event-loop. Which won't happen until your programs terminate.

With programs I mean of course the burning commandos.

Diez


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  2 19:08:57 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:08:57 +1000
Subject: Program help
References: <1128283048.975696.101760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.02.23.08.57.6959@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 12:57:29 -0700, FX wrote:

> can anybody write a code for a program that reads from a
> /location/file & according to file contents, it execute script. e.g. if
> file contains "mp" it runs media player.
> I hope the code is small .. plz help me out!

There are lots of people who can do that. Are you asking them to do it for
free, or are you looking to hire a Python developer to design, build and
test your program?

-- 
Steven.



From timr at probo.com  Fri Oct 21 02:20:12 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:20:12 GMT
Subject: Cursor Location
References: <nIednWsyWKhuU8reRVn-hg@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <k22hl1130jrt4n2s6mh9j6epjs938dqvn5@4ax.com>

"Samantha" <samantha7395 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Is there any code that would allow a person to click a location on the 
>screen and have that location saved for a future use? For example to imbed a 
>watermark on an image or text, etc.

Getting the point is easy.  If you are using wxPython, your EVT_LEFT_UP
handler gets a mouse event as a parameter:

    def OnClick( self, evt ):
        print evt.GetPositionTuple()

Once you have the tuple, it's up to you to save it somewhere.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 19:33:17 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:33:17 +0100
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",   self.donothing)
	not working
In-Reply-To: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djmfbu$kms$1@sea.gmane.org>

shannonl wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> For some reason this bind is calling the donothing function, like it
> should, but is then allowing the text to be inserted into the Text
> widget.
> 
> Here is the code:
> 
> self.framebody.tag_config("name", underline=1)
> self.framebody.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>", self.donothing)
> 
> line = '\t%s' % ('sometext')
> self.framebody.insert(END, line, "name")
> 
> def donothing(self):
>     return 'break'
> 
> This donothing function should keep the tcl bind from inserting the
> text...at least so I thought.
> 
> This bind does work on the text widget as a whole, but on a individual
> tag, it does not.
> 
> Can anyone help me out with this?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Shannon
> 
Have you tried capturing the KeyRelease events as well?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From rrr at ronadam.com  Tue Oct  4 14:11:02 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:11:02 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> 
>>On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 06:59:04 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well I'm a bit getting sick of those references to standard idioms.
>>>There are moments those standard idioms don't work, while the
>>>gist of the OP's remark still stands like:
>>>
>>>  egold = 0:
>>>  while egold < 10:
>>>    if test():
>>>      ego1d = egold + 1
>>
>>for item in [x for x in xrange(10) if test()]:
>>
>>But it isn't about the idioms. It is about the trade-offs. Python allows
>>you to do things that you can't do in other languages because you
>>have much more flexibility than is possible with languages that
>>require you to declare variables before using them. The cost is, some
>>tiny subset of possible errors will not be caught by the compiler. But
>>since the compiler can't catch all errors anyway, you need to test for
>>errors and not rely on the compiler. No compiler will catch this error:
>>
>>x = 12.0 # feet
>># three pages of code
>>y = 15.0 # metres
>># three more pages of code
>>distance = x + y
>>if distance < 27:
>>    fire_retro_rockets()
>>
>>And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
>>early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
>>employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.
> 
> 
> Using (unit)tests will not guarantee that your programs is error free.
> 
> So if sooner or later a (unit)tested program causes a problem, will you
> then argue that we should abondon tests, because tests won't catch
> all errors.

Maybe you need to specify what kind of errors you want to catch. 
Different types of errors require different approaches.

    * Errors that interrupt program execution.

These are Type errors and/or illegal instruction errors such as divide 
by zero.  Try-excepts and checking attributes where these are possible 
to handle them should be used.

    * Human 'user' input errors.

Value testing is what is needed for these.

    * Programming errors...

Nothing will replace testing here.


I think what you want is optional name and object locking in order to 
prevent certain types of errors and increase reliability and dependability.

    Name locking - This will allow you to be able to depend that a 
specific name refers to a specific object.  But that object can still be 
modified if it's mutable.

    Object locking - This would make a non mutable object from a mutable 
object.  A function could work here for lists. This probably isn't 
possible with many complex objects.  Names need to be rebound in many 
objects for them to work.  I think this may be much harder to do than it 
seems.

An example, (but probably not possible to do).

     Const = {}
     Const['pi'] = 3.1415926535897931

         ... add more keys/value pairs ...

     lockobject Const   # prevent object from being changed
     lockname Const     # prevent name 'Const' from being rebound

         ... many pages of code ...

     print Const['pi']      # dependable result?


Is this the type of control you want?
Would it make your programs more dependable or reliable?

Name locking might be implemented with additional name spaces, but they 
would need to be checked prior to other name spaces, so it could slow 
everything down.

And there would probably be ways to unlock objects.  But maybe that's 
not a problem as I think what you want to prevent is erroneous results 
due to unintentional name changes or object changes.

I think both of these would have unexpected side effects in many cases, 
so their use would be limited.

Cheers,
Ron


















From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 16 05:40:57 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:40:57 GMT
Subject: dis.dis question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2123.1129429499.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <rwT1f.138151$xl6.1729@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>	<aN72f.138292$xl6.19229@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>	<4351affc.104308027@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.2123.1129429499.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Jep4f.16179$ae.12735@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

skip at pobox.com wrote:

>     >> I'm still looking for info on how to use disassemble_string().
> 
> How about this?
> 
>     >>> import dis
>     >>> def f():
>     ...   print "hello world"
>     ... 
>     >>> f.func_code.co_code
>     'd\x01\x00GHd\x00\x00S'
>     >>> dis.disassemble_string(f.func_code.co_code)
>               0 LOAD_CONST          1 (1)
>               3 PRINT_ITEM     
>               4 PRINT_NEWLINE  
>               5 LOAD_CONST          0 (0)
>               8 RETURN_VALUE   
> 
> Skip

Thanks Skip,  I had figured it out, but I like your example.

 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis('d\x01\x00GHd\x00\x00S')
               0 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
               3 PRINT_ITEM
               4 PRINT_NEWLINE
               5 LOAD_CONST               0 (0)
               8 RETURN_VALUE

It works!  :-)

Cheers,
    Ron






From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 15:19:04 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:19:04 -0000
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

>>>> The closest thing you can do is that:
>>>> 
>>>> -myScript.py--------------------------------------
>>>> print 'export MY_VARIABLE=value'
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> -myScript.sh--------------------------------------
>>>> python myScript.py > /tmp/chgvars.sh
>>>> . /tmp/chgvars.sh
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Bullshit.  Are people being intentionally misleading??
>
> No. Are you being intentionally - never mind.

Well, yes, probably.

>> And even Google knows the correct answer
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=python+set+environment+variable
>>
>> Follow the first hit.

My bad.  I got links mixed up -- it wasn't the first one, it
was this one:

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/3298

There are two almost-equivalent tirival answers:

  os.environment['foo'] = 'bar'

  os.putenv('foo','bar')
  
I don't get why people seem to be obfuscating things with
multiple layers of shells or writing shell commands to to a
file and executing them.

> Maybe the results order has changed since you looked?

No, I mixed them up.

My point: the OP wanted to know how to export an environment
variable to a child process.  Either of the lines of code above
will do that, so what's with all the shellular shenanigans?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Youth of today! Join
                                  at               me in a mass rally
                               visi.com            for traditional mental
                                                   attitudes!


From http  Thu Oct  6 16:24:19 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Oct 2005 13:24:19 -0700
Subject: So far (about editing tools)
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
	<48D17FEA-3E2D-46CA-AEB4-86EA1CFACCB1@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.1634.1128629828.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr7aypf64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> writes:
> Furthermore, Eclipse requires java and is thusly not provided on any
> linux distro I'm familiar with, which I consider a huge roadblock.  And
> as mentioned, it's bloated.

It comes with Fedora Core 4 and is compiled with gcj.

> I would suspect that the majority of Python programmers write in one of
> vim or emacs. Anyone got stats?

I'm a long time emacs bigot but lately I've been editing Python with
IDLE.  IDLE leaves a lot to be desired but its integration is very
convenient.


From skromta at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 12:27:34 2005
From: skromta at gmail.com (Kalle Anke)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:27:34 +0200
Subject: getting the path in a cgi script
References: <0001HW.BF759D88004280C3F0284550@news.individual.de>
	<mailman.2074.1129306980.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0001HW.BF75A91600453623F0488550@news.individual.de>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:20:10 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote
(in article <mailman.2074.1129306980.509.python-list at python.org>):

> import os
> path_info = os.environ.get("PATH_INFO")

Tackar ... det var n?t enkelt det mindes jag :-)



From email at christoph-haas.de  Fri Oct 14 16:11:48 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:11:48 +0200
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
In-Reply-To: <lMT3f.36704$133.6628@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434e4ad2$1@news.bezeqint.net>
	<lMT3f.36704$133.6628@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <200510142211.49067.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Friday 14 October 2005 21:35, billie wrote:
> "Nir Aides"  wrote
>
> > Hello Len,
> >
> > You should try the #python IRC room.
> > It is always very active and helpful.
> >
> > Nir
>
> Do you mean efnet #Python chan?
> It's not too much active...

I believe he meant irc.freenode.net :)

 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 17 09:12:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:12:02 +1000
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.17.13.12.01.917022@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:25:35 +0800, James Gan wrote:

> I want the object printed in a readable format. For example,
> x =[a, b, c, [d e]] will be printed as:
> x--a
>   |_b
>   |_c
>   |___d
>     |_e

I think you missed an "un-" in your first sentence.

:-)

In general, if you want special/fancy/bizarre printing, you should either
write your own custom functions, or sub-class the objects in question.

E.g. 

def multiline_print(L, indent=""):
    """Multi-line printing of lists.
    WARNING: Untested and probably full of bugs.
    """
    for item in L:
        if type(item) == list:
            multiline_print(item, indent + "    ")
        else:
            print indent + "|_" + str(item)


Hope this helps.



-- 
Steven.



From derek.perriero at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 09:08:07 2005
From: derek.perriero at gmail.com (Derek Perriero)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:08:07 -0400
Subject: Best way to handle cgi sessions
In-Reply-To: <17fc20160510150605l7cde5386jdf0dd9de84fe363c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17fc20160510141222g65b11873y28ca495874a64156@mail.gmail.com>
	<200510150028.32610.email@christoph-haas.de>
	<17fc20160510150605l7cde5386jdf0dd9de84fe363c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17fc20160510150608h1739db30x2638fdf59b9519bf@mail.gmail.com>

Christoph,

I really appreciate the effort. I've been searching for something of this
magnitude for awhile. See, I would normally use CGI::Session for the
equivalent in Perl. That is what I am trying to achieve. I'll give that
script a go and see what I can come up with. Luckily, the data I store is
kept in MySQL, so that's even better. Regards to your efforts to the
community!

Cheers,
 Derek

P.S. Sorry for the repeat, this e-mail was never sent to the list, Thanks!

On 10/15/05, Derek Perriero <derek.perriero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Christoph,
>
> I really appreciate the effort. I've been searching for something of this
> magnitude for awhile. See, I would normally use CGI::Session for the
> equivalent in Perl. That is what I am trying to achieve. I'll give that
> script a go and see what I can come up with. Luckily, the data I store is
> kept in MySQL, so that's even better. Regards to your efforts to the
> community!
>
> Cheers,
> Derek
>
> On 10/14/05, Christoph Haas <email at christoph-haas.de> wrote:
> >
> > On Friday 14 October 2005 21:22, Derek Perriero wrote:
> > > What would be the best way to create a cgi session that contains the
> > > basic elements of a cookie and can also hold secure data, such as a
> > > username/password. [...]
> >
> > Said. Done. I just tidied up a module we will be using for a web site
> > here. It uses the promised session-cookie handling (with a lot of
> > security
> > checks) and a MySQL database backend. I tried to document as well as
> > possible
> > so I hope it will even help you if you use it or not. To try it out just
> > grab the two files from http://workaround.org/pysessions/ and copy them
> > into a
> > cgi-bin/ directory. Create a database and the two tables following the
> > scheme described on top of the MySessions.py module. Then access the
> > /cgi-bin/mypage CGI. Hope to have helped.
> >
> > Everyone:
> > This is my first "bigger" Python script. I would really like to hear
> > comments
> > on it. If it's deemed to be decent I could use some help making it a
> > package
> > that can be used by others as well. There is probably a bit of
> > perlishness
> > that I'd like to get rid of to make it look more snake-like.
> >
> > Regards
> > Christoph
> > --
> > ~
> > ~
> > ".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%-- 1,48 All
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Perriero, Derek
> derek.perriero at gmail.com
>



--
Perriero, Derek
derek.perriero at gmail.com
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From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Oct  7 20:31:27 2005
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:31:27 -0400
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <11kdtk2t4kksp25@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1725.1128718388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdpab4l7i7ecb@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.1730.1128721878.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdtk2t4kksp25@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20051008003127.GN6255@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 10:28:18PM -0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-07, Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
> >
> > It is a bit odd that You'uns, yins, and yous are confined to Pennsylvania
> > and very distinct east-west regions inside PA at that (Pittsburgh vs
> > Philly orbits).
> 
> Eastern and Western Pennsylvania are practically different
> countries when it comes to language and culture.
> 

I'll buy that, I'm from Eastern PA (half PA Dutch) and I've only been
to Pittsburgh once.  There is a very good reason for this, the six hour
drive is the same as from Philly to Boston (through NJ, NY, CT and into 
MA). Alternatively you can drive from Philly to DC to Philly or 
Philly to New York to Philly to New York in the same amount of time.

-jack


From http  Tue Oct 11 22:05:15 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 19:05:15 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<k0qok19md1le5ju60ip9a501kt16nia3pv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xd5mbcwx0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> So let's say I decide to send an email to Donald Knuth.

Good luck.  Prof. Knuth stopped reading email years before there was a
big spam problem.  He uses his own version of hashcash to cut down on
unimportant mail: if you want to write to him, you have to send him
snail mail, which means buying and using an actual postage stamp.

I do something like that, sort of.  I no longer publish an email
address, including on business cards and so forth.  I have a contact
url that I give out instead, which keeps me off mailing lists.


From anenem at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 20:01:28 2005
From: anenem at gmail.com (robert)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 02:01:28 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb and cgi
In-Reply-To: <d507192f0510301138j66fa47d0rc595d527747a19d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d507192f0510301138j66fa47d0rc595d527747a19d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d507192f0510311701j49a155f3t988d83630e090b6a@mail.gmail.com>

I am sending it again, since it didn't appear on the mailing list.

 Dear group,
>
> I have a problem with importing MySQLdb in a cgi-script.
> The code fragment at the beginning:
>
> 1 #!/usr/bin/env python
> 2
> 3 print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
> 4
> 5 import re
> 6 import cgi
> 7 import MySQLdb
> 8 print "something"
>
> but the print statement in line 8 will never be executed. The Apache error
> log says:
> "No module named MySQLdb, referer: http://localhost/sqlForm.html"
>
> But when executing the import statement outside of an cgi-script, for
> example at the command line, the import works fine.
> I assume, it has something to do with the apache. Why does the python
> interpreter not find the MySQLdb module when executed in
> apache context?
>
> thanks, roebi
>
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From mark at markroseman.com  Tue Oct 18 12:34:12 2005
From: mark at markroseman.com (Mark Roseman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:34:12 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <mark-247ED9.12341218102005@news.isp.giganews.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> > Maybe that's the key difference between the mindset of a
> > mathematician and that of an engineer -- I consider reaching over
> > 95% of visitors to be _quite good indeed_,
>> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
> told that that's what's going on.

Obviously we all agree the effort to support both is significant.  The 
question is not so much "do we turn away 5%" as "do we use the effort we 
do have to provide a better experience for the 95%, or to provide a 
slightly worse experience for the 95%, and an ok experience for the 5%".

If you're a business, the question then becomes, does the incrementally 
better experience produce a higher conversion rate (i.e. more sales), in 
which case it may well be a better investment to focus there and ignore 
the 5%.  It's but one perspective, but depending on your goals, can be a 
reasonable choice to make.

Mark


From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 16:52:38 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:52:38 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <djgt6m$mj7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote in message 
news:GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975 at news20.bellglobal.com...

> I'd be interested in hearing what you think a right is?

    A right is a scope of authority. That is, a sphere within which one's 
decision is sovereign.

> In Florida, for example, you have the right to gun someone down if you 
> think they're a bit too menacing. In Canada, most people find that 
> reprehensible. So does a Floridian visiting Canada have their rights 
> infringed on by our rogue government because they're not allowed to gun 
> down menacing looking Canadians at will?

    That's obviously a complicated question but totally unrelated to the 
issue at hand, which was one's sovereignty over one's own property. 
Obviously issues where a person has to use force against another are going 
to be complicated. The existence of complicated questions doesn't make the 
simple ones complicated.

> Should they be able to exercise that right regardless and not have to face 
> the consequences of our laws?

    I think there are objective criteria in which the use of force is 
justified regardless of the laws. However, the strategic decision of whether 
to use objectively justifiable force when one may not be able to justify it 
to non-objective observers who may use force against you is going to be a 
complicated one.

> I think "right", however, was the wrong choice of words in this thread; 
> there is rarely anything codifying a company's "right" to succeed at all 
> costs and at the expense of all competition (except Crown Corporations and 
> the like, which are created (in theory, anyway) in the interest of general 
> population as opposed to it).

    My point was that the Microsoft corporation was not an impersonal 
entity. It is an entity that is supposed to embody the will and rights of 
its shareholders and exists to allow them to act together for their own 
benefit.

> Your question here appears to be one of ethics. Is MS ethically bankrupt 
> for pursuing business practices that run counter to society's established 
> norms, and should they be punished for doing so? And is their behaviour 
> the more reprehensible because of the contempt they show for the decisions 
> of society's judicial arm.

    It is only proper to show contempt for bad decisions. MS obligation was 
to comply with the law and not perform actions that the law put them on 
clear notice were prohibited. The court's determination of the relevent 
market, on wich all of their other decisions were predicated, was arbitrary 
and bizarre, and the law did not provide any notice of how the market would 
be determined.

    In the sense of interchangeability, almost all operating systems are 
monopolies. And if you go by application, Windows, Linux, and FreeBSD are 
all interchangeable -- there is nothing significant you can do on one that 
you can't do on the other.

    DS




From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Sat Oct  1 19:14:54 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:14:54 -0500
Subject: Class Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128208495.10009.10.camel@blackwidow>

On Sat, 2005-10-01 at 18:58 -0400, Ivan Shevanski wrote:
> To continue with my previous problems, now I'm trying out classes.  But I 
> have a problem (which I bet is easily solveable) that I really don't get.  
> The numerous tutorials I've looked at just confsed me.For intance:
> 
> >>>class Xyz:
> ...     def y(self):
> ...             q = 2
> ...
> >>>Xyz.y()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unbound method y() must be called with Xyz instance as first 
> argument
> (got nothing instead)
> 
> 
> So. . .What do I have to do? I know this is an extremley noob question but I 
> think maybe if a person explained it to me I would finally get it =/


When you define a class, say Xyz, your are defining your own type.  Say
that Person is a class.  And person has a method walk():

class Person:
    def walk(self):
        ...

now to use the Person class, you need to create an instance of it.  You
can't just say Person.walk() because Person is a "class"ification, not a
real object.  You need an instance of person.

jane = Person()

This creates a new person called "jane".  "jane" is an instance of the
class Person.

>>> jane
 <__main__.Person instance at 0x2aaaac723710>

Now we can tell jane to walk:

jane.walk()

So what the error is telling you (in a bit confusing way if you're a
newbie) is that you are calling a method y() but you have not created an
instance of your Xyz class to do y().  Or, to use my analogy, you are
telling Person to walk, but you can't make Person walk, you have to
create a person, jane, and have jane walk.

Hope this helps, but I recommend you read a good intro to
object-oriented programming.

-a



From netvaibhav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 10:50:12 2005
From: netvaibhav at gmail.com (netvaibhav at gmail.com)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 07:50:12 -0700
Subject: Default argument to __init__
Message-ID: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi All:

Here's a piece of Python code and it's output. The output that Python
shows is not as per my expectation. Hope someone can explain to me this
behaviour:

[code]
class MyClass:
        def __init__(self, myarr=[]):
                self.myarr = myarr

myobj1 = MyClass()
myobj2 = MyClass()

myobj1.myarr += [1,2,3]

myobj2.myarr += [4,5,6]

print myobj1.myarr
print myobj2.myarr
[/code]

The output is:
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

Why do myobj1.myarr and myobj2.myarr point to the same list? The
default value to __init__ for the myarr argument is [], so I expect
that every time an object of MyClass is created, a new empty list is
created and assigned to myarr, but it seems that the same empty list
object is assigned to myarr on every invocation of MyClass.__init__

It this behaviour by design? If so, what is the reason, as the
behaviour I expect seems pretty logical.

Thanks.

Vaibhav



From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Tue Oct 18 06:30:41 2005
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 03:30:41 -0700
Subject: How to make command history persistent?
In-Reply-To: <1129627265.021498.146390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129627265.021498.146390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129631441.629180.191200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


If using unix, you should have readline available.
See the tutotial appendix:-

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node15.html

Regards, Paul Clinch



From http  Sun Oct  2 20:46:23 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 17:46:23 -0700
Subject: Automating, Building, Testing and  Deploying to Production Server
References: <1128288243.694287.134210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xd5mnig0w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"yoda" <nochiel at gmail.com> writes:
> I realize I'm losing so much time I could spend more productively. I'd
> therefore like to know the different approaches you guys employ to
> deploy builds from your staging servers (or laptops:) to the production
> server in an automated repeatable safe manner.

This is really a wide-ranging question and clpy maybe is not the best
place for it.  Basically every installation does it differently
depending on its requirements.  You could google some phrases like
"continuous integration" and "configuration management" to see some
approaches.  The general outline is:

1) QA dept. has a server configured as identically as possible to the
   production server.

2) Engineering releases a sw version by making a source control
   branch.  QA checks out the branch and tests it against pre-agreed
   release criteria.  If there's differences of opinion about criteria,
   QA manager and engineering manager meet to resolve differences.

3) when QA manager and engineering manager agree to release, code is
   pushed out to production server (same process as release to QA:
   someone logs onto the production server and does an svn update or
   whatever).  How that's done depends on how the server works.  I
   worked at one serious web site which worked as follows.  We had a
   primary server and hot backup (secondary) server, so we did pushes
   by taking the backup server offline, checking out the new build on
   the backup server and running some sanity tests, then launching the
   service on the backup server and taking down the primary, so there
   would be an automatic failover to the backup which was now running
   the new code.  We'd then upgrade the primary the same way, and fail
   over again if desired.  Smaller sites with no hot secondary will
   typically go briefly offline for version upgrade.  Larger sites
   with multiple primaries could have a more gradual process where
   primaries are upgraded one by one, or whatever.

4) Some high availability services (e.g. telecom) need hot upgrade
   (code replacement without stopping the application or interrupting
   connections).  This needs to be built into the app architecture at
   a deep level and I don't think it's what you were asking, but some
   languages like Erlang make provisions for it.

Generally, a release cycle for an online service isn't that much
different than that for a shrink-wrapped software package.


From uuuuuu at me.com  Sat Oct  1 16:10:55 2005
From: uuuuuu at me.com (Rob)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 09:10:55 +1300
Subject: Not defined
References: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <o3C%e.15495$iM2.1266381@news.xtra.co.nz>

Thanks for the replies gives me something to chew on.

Regards Gramps 




From sutram at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 22:58:33 2005
From: sutram at gmail.com (Mahesh Padmanabhan)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:58:33 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.4a1 released
References: <LgP4f.7793$lN2.1203@fe04.lga>
Message-ID: <sutram-25DF9C.20583317102005@sea.gmane.org>

In article <LgP4f.7793$lN2.1203 at fe04.lga>,
 "Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:

[Edward's announcement]

Thanks for adding Emacs functionality. I really like the idea of 
literate programming and have tried to get into Leo but believe it or 
not, I haven't been able to get into it due to my muscle memory for 
Emacs keystrokes!

I would keep installing Leo only to uninstall it afterwards because I 
would get frustrated.

Another welcome change is complete keyboard control.

Cheers,
Mahesh



From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  7 17:14:51 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:14:51 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1725.1128718388.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11kdpab4l7i7ecb@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

> Of course, just to keep y'all on your toes, we Texans have not only
> construed "their" to singular, but also "you", and added a new
> plural "y'all".

AFAICT, in many parts of "The South", y'all is now used in the
singular (e.g. "y'all" is used when addressing a single
person), and "all y'all" is the plural form used when
addressing a group of people collectively.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If elected, Zippy
                                  at               pledges to each and every
                               visi.com            American a 55-year-old
                                                   houseboy...


From rpdooling at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 11:29:13 2005
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (rpdooling at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 08:29:13 -0700
Subject: suggestions between these two books
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2607.1130339640.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
	<mailman.2607.1130339640.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130340553.001869.67000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Many different opinions on books. But if you are learning programming
and learning Python, you can't beat the online book: How To Think Like
A Computer Scientist: Learning Pythong

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

It's concise and well-written.

rd



From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Wed Oct 12 01:37:48 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:37:48 GMT
Subject: piping out binaries properly
In-Reply-To: <86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
	<86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1129095467.30697.10.camel@blackwidow>

On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 00:16 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
[...]
> It's not normal to write binary content to stdout - you normally write
> it to a file. Open the file with open(name, 'wb') to write binaries.
> 

It is interesting that as a "Unix consultant" you should make that
claim.  Especially since

>>> sys.stdout
<open file '<stdout>', mode 'w' at 0x2aaaaaac9198>
      ^^^^

Indeed there would be a lot of broken Unix systems out there if that
were not the case.

As for the OP, you may want to check how stdout is opened on your
system.  In Windows there are two "write" modes for files, 'w', and 'wb'
where apparently 'w' is text mode and 'wb' is binary.  You may want to
check what mode your stdout is in.  I don't have a Windows box handy
right now to verify.

> There doesn't appear to be any way to retroactively change the mode on
> a file. Which is probably a good thing.
> 
>     <mike-- 
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>
http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
> Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more
information.




From jpablo.romero at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 23:15:16 2005
From: jpablo.romero at gmail.com (Juan Pablo Romero)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:15:16 -0500
Subject: fun with lambdas
Message-ID: <e6507ac70510202015q447bd244w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!

given the definition

def f(a,b): return a+b

With this code:

fs = [ lambda x: f(x,o) for o in [0,1,2]]

or this

fs = []
for o in [0,1,2]:
    fs.append( lambda x: f(x,o) )

I'd expect that fs contains partial evaluated functions, i.e.

fs[0](0) == 0
fs[1](0) == 1
fs[2](0) == 2

But this is not the case :(

What is happening here?


Nevertheless, this code does work

fs = [ eval("lambda x: f(x,%d)" % o) for o in [0,1,2,3]]

Thanks.

   Juan Pablo


From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Fri Oct  7 11:48:23 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:48:23 -0400
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128699338.667416.56250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1699.1128698816.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128699338.667416.56250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di65cb$n6u$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> No doubt you're right but common sense dictates that membership testing
> would test identity not equality.
> This is one of the rare occasions where Python defeats my common sense

But object identity is almost always a fairly ill-defined concept. 
Consider this (Python 2.2, 'cuz that's what I have right now):

Python 2.2.3 (#1, Nov 12 2004, 13:02:04)
[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-42)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> al = "ab"
 >>> alp = al+"c"
 >>> alphabet = "abc"
 >>> al
'ab'
 >>> alp
'abc'
 >>> alphabet
'abc'
 >>> alp is alphabet
0
 >>> alp == alphabet
1 # True on Py2.4


The only reliable thing that object identity tells you is "these two 
foos occupy the same memory location."  Even for identical, immutable 
objects, this may not be true (see case above) -- some immutables do end 
up occupying the same memory location (try i=1;j=2;k=j-1;i is k), but 
this is by no means guraranteed, and indeed only happens sometimes 
because of optimizations.


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 14 06:53:39 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:53:39 +0200
Subject: get_payload problem with large mail attachments
References: <1129286221.172200.217160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dio2mj$i0p$03$1@news.t-online.com>

hungryblank at gmail.com wrote:

> I'm having troubles with a script that uses the get_payload function.
> My script just works perfectly if I use it with attachment up to 8 Mb.
> If the attachment are more than 8 Mb large, the script exits with a
> TypeError exception.
> IMHO when get_payload try to convert the attachment in a single string
> it occours in some size limit.
> How can I fix it?

> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File?"/usr/local/sbin/mailbox2home.py",?line?44,?in??
> fp.write(part.get_payload(decode=1))
> TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only buffer, not None

None seems to be the expected result of get_payload(decode=1) for multipart
parts.

>         if part.get_content_maintype() == 'multipart':
>             continue

Could it be that your test for multipart isn't correct? I would try

if part.is_multipart():
    continue

Peter



From nephish at xit.net  Mon Oct  3 15:09:27 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 12:09:27 -0700
Subject: question about smtplib
Message-ID: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hey there,

i am using the smtplib module in python 2.3

my question is, this works:

server = smtplib.SMTP(localhost)

then server.sendmail(to address, from address, message)


what i want to know is, how does the connection work?

when i do server.sendmail, does it connect then ? or did it connect
when
i made the object ?

the reason i need to know is i need to send several emails out at once
and would be best to only connect once, i think.

i know that i can call server.close(), i just dont know when it was
opened.
thanks



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct  7 10:16:16 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:16:16 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>

"Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lassevk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, that looks like Mike's solution except that it uses the
> built-in heapq module.

This make a big difference for the algorithmic complexity; replacing an item in a heap is much more
efficient than sorting the whole list.

> While this one contains less code than Mike's solution it seems to lack
> the ability to control the comparison operation, which means it won't
> work in my case. I need to both be able to sort on an arbitrary field
> name (could be done using a list where I place the field first), and
> also to be able to sort in a different order than smallest-first.
>
> Perhaps by adjusting the data that is returned through each source
> would do that. I'll look into it.

Yes, it's a little inconvenient that the builtin heap doesn't take a comparison operation but you
can easily roll your own heap by transforming each item to a (key,item) tuple. Now that I'm thinking
about it, it might be a good addition to the cookbook.

George




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct 25 08:20:35 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:20:35 +0200
Subject: PDO and database abstraction
In-Reply-To: <1130240852.794081.158320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130240852.794081.158320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435E2313.3090504@ghaering.de>

Luiz Geron wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm testing the PDO wrapper to database modules [1] and I'm wondering
> how few things like this there are around. 

Actually there are several Object-Relation Mappers (ORM) for Python, and 
also a few other attempts to provide a more convenient layer on top of 
DB-API modules.

This wiki page has links: 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/HigherLevelDatabaseProgramming

> My problem, actually, is the paramstyle of modules.

That problem exactly what these solutions try to solve, this and 
multiple SQL dialects and handling types like date etc. for multiple 
backends.

> I want to use kinterbasdb in the same code I use
> cx_oracle, for example, but paramstyle changes from one to other, than
> I searched for things like this and found nothing really usefull. The
> problem with PDO is that it was so dificult to find, since a few people
> seems to use it,  and I haven't yet figured how to change the paramstyle
> on it, so I want to ask: Do you use a thing like this that you would
> recommend to me?

I always wrote my own thin layer on top of DB-API modules and used it to 
implement a *specific* database interface for my applications. This 
would then have one or more database backends. Actually never more than 
two so far.

If you want to go for a more popular ORM, you can try out SqlObject. But 
  it doesn't have Oracle support, yet. There were patches and there are 
apparently again new attempts to integrate Oracle support, but nothing 
official/finished yet apparently.

Personally, I recently checked out different ORMs for Python one 
afternoon. Only superficially, but here's my biased uninformed opinion.

- SqlObject (1) has an active community, and its use in Subway and
TurboGears will create even more momentum for it. By looking at its code
(for hacking in Oracle support, which I managed to do for a one-table
test case), I found it to have *a lot* features, including caching and
others. I don't particularly like that, I'd prefer a thin-to-medium
layer myself.

- There was something to Modeling (2) I didn't like. It's just a gut 
feeling that it tries to do too much for my taste.

- PyDO2 did work with Oracle out of the box, the SQLite and PostgreSQL 
adapters looked reasonable too from a quick code inspection. It does 
seem to do one thing and do it right, which is a philosophy I like in 
libraries and wrappers. If I'm to use a ORM for a future project, I'd 
first go with PyDO2.

HTH,

-- Gehard

(1) http://sqlobject.org/
(2) http://modeling.sourceforge.net/
(3) http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/PyDO2/manual.html



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 22:56:37 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:56:37 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130264859.869054.291760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86u0f52uh2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h55rbb.14ucuuz1ho4jalN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

> "usgog at yahoo.com" <usgog at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> > So how to overwrite the config file directly in script.py instead of
> > running script.py with two params?
> 
> Don't overwrite the file directly. Save a copy, then rename it. That

See module fileinput in the standard library, it does this for you
automatically when used in the right way -- much better than rolling
your own and having to debug it and maintain it forever!


Alex


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 27 13:37:06 2005
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:37:06 +0100
Subject: help with concurrency control (threads/processes & signals)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2651.1130432229.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2651.1130432229.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9f88f.17902$R5.1736@news.indigo.ie>

[Sori Schwimmer]
> I am working on an application which involves
> interprocess communication. More to the point,
> processes should be able to notify other processes
> about certain situations, so the "notifyees" would be
> able to act in certain ways.
> 
> As processes are distributed on several machines, in
> different physical locations, my thinking was:
> a) set a message manager (MM)
> b) all the participants will register with MM, so MM
> will have their host address and their pid on host
> c) when someone needs to send a notification, it is
> sent to MM, and MM it's doing the job

[snip]

> Life is a struggle. Programming in Python shouldn't
> be. Ergo, I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> Any advice?

Rather than rolling your own, have you considered using the spread 
module: robust, tested, efficient and no infrastructure development 
required.

http://www.zope.org/Members/tim_one/spread/
http://www.python.org/other/spread/

The latter page has links to the original C spread module, which has 
documentation, FAQs, etc.

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From brakjoller at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 21:02:43 2005
From: brakjoller at gmail.com (Mathias Dahl)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:02:43 +0200
Subject: Listening for keypress in the background
References: <m2zmp1u6l1.fsf@gmail.com> <j9KdnW2xM51nrMfeRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<m2sluttyww.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2oe5ht58s.fsf@gmail.com>

Mathias Dahl <brakjoller at gmail.com> writes:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>
>>> How can I make it listen for a certain keypress (say, Windows-key +
>>> space) in a controlled fashion even when it is not the program having
>>> focus?
>>> 
>>> I need to do this running under GNOME in Mandrake GN/Linux 10.
>>
>> Search Google for "python keylogger".
>
> Thanks, good idea! The relevant pages I found only link to
> Windows-specific keyloggers though.
>
> I just got another idea on a solution for my main problem (invoking my
> sleeping app) and that would be to let my window manager execute a
> small "invoker" program that would communicate with the sleeping
> app. The question is, which is the easiest way to communicate with a
> running Python program? Signals? TCP/IP (not really, right?) Pipes?

I solved it using named pipes (mkfifo, open and read) plus a simple
echo x > pipe to invoke.



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:30:04 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:30:04 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqema$o7e$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <djqh8d$5hq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> David Schwartz wrote:

>> Roedy Green wrote:
> <snip>
>> competing products. (Just as Burger King corporate will not you sell
>> Big Macs in the same store in which you sell Whoppers.)

> Rather odd comparison don't you think ?

    No, it's dead on.

> A better comparison would be if Burger King purchases the fries from a
> factory that says that Burger King has to give out a pack of fries
> with all meals, regardless of the type of meal, or they are going to
> raise the price. In other words, you'll be forced to take a pack of
> fries with your ice cream, salad or what not. Considering that
> McDonalds have been selling meals with "potato-boats" (don't know the
> correct english term for it, carved potato pieces fried), they'd have
> to give you a pack of fries with your meal regardless, even if you
> want to replace the fries with "potato-boats".

    The reason this is a much worse comparison is that the fries don't 
determine the nature, to the consumer, of the meal. On the other hand, there 
is a sense in which all PCs running, say Windows 98, are alike to the 
consumer. That is, what Microsoft provided is what put the product in its 
class to the consumer, and to the typical consumer, the meal is a unit.

> Also, in this case Burger King "won't sell you" is not the same as
> "can't sell you", which seems to be the case with this whole Microsoft
> discussion. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to easily buy a
> computer from Microsoft with OS/2 installed or vice versa either and
> I'm not sure they would be obliged to do so either. However,
> controlling what an independant outlet is doing, that's different.

    I'm talking about Burger King corporate, the wholesale distributor and 
franchise licensor. They control what any entity that wants to sell their 
branded products can do, and do so very strictly.

    The term "independent outlet" is hiding the entire point. Microsoft has 
no more obligation to sell Windows through independent outlets than Burger 
Kind corporate has an obligation to sell Whoppers through indepedent 
outlets, which is none at all. Microsoft elected only to allow Windows to be 
purchased wholesale through a franchisee like arrangement, so you were no 
longer a fully independent outlet.

    I think the history shows that Microsoft opted for a franchisee-type 
arrangement for much the same reason Burger King does. They want their 
company name to have value and bring in customers. To do this, they have to 
prevent their company name from being associated with products that don't 
provide the experience they want associated with their name and they have to 
prevent companies that draw based on the popularity of Windows but then 
switch people to other products.

    Because Burger King corporate doesn't want a person to see the golden 
arches, walk in, and get a crappy burger or be told that a competing burger 
is cheaper and better, they only allow their branded products to be sold at 
any business that can draw using their name and products. Microsoft, for 
much the same reasons, resticted people's ability to modify Windows or sell 
both Windows and competing products.

    DS




From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 18:46:40 2005
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 15:46:40 -0700
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
In-Reply-To: <1128551304.960549.235420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net><ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
	<1128551304.960549.235420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128552400.004933.29180@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

s/without/with/



From gordonb.tt59b at burditt.org  Wed Oct 12 21:23:40 2005
From: gordonb.tt59b at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:23:40 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>
	<11kr5p3hstor935@corp.supernews.com>
	<b89rk1phchi0224ha46cq1k1rqvld2a3jf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11krdosli1jgla7@corp.supernews.com>

>>	Links
>>	Javascript
>>	Forms
>>	References to other files
>
>the only piece of that particularly dangerous is JavaScript.  So long
>as you have a scheme to unmask where links are really going links are
>no more dangerous than they are in browser.

Browsers don't read unsolicited web sites.  Email readers do, however,
read unsolicited email, and email from downright hostile correspondents.  
And I consider "web bugs" and similar tracking methods to be a danger
for something that's supposed to be ONLY "formatted text".

>Even a form is not dangerous.  You have to fill it in and hit submit.

So where does the submitted data GO?  And there's all kind of information
in there about what software I'm running.

						Gordon L. Burditt


From the.theorist at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 18:57:41 2005
From: the.theorist at gmail.com (the.theorist)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 15:57:41 -0700
Subject: Setting Class Attributes
In-Reply-To: <435e91b1$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<435e91b1$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1130281061.552882.134540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> the.theorist a ?crit :
> > I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
> > other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
> > some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
> > the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
> > instance to hold separate entries.
> >
> > #----------Begin module test.py
> > class ex:
>
> class ex(object): # oldstyle classes are deprecated
>
> >     def __init__(self, val={}):
> >         self.value = val
>
> You didn't search very long. This is one of the most (in)famous Python
> gotchas: default args are evaluated *only once*, when the function
> definition is evaluated (at load time). This is also a dirty trick to
> have a 'static' (as in C) like variable.
>
> The solution is quite simple:
> class ex(object):
>    def __init__(self, val=None):
>      if val is None: val = {}
>      self.value = val
>
> (snip)

Hey, that was extremely helpful. I suspect that the default args
evaluation is optimized for speed. So it makes sense to use the None
assignment, and a test condition later.

Worked like a charm, Thanks!



From john at hazen.net  Tue Oct  4 15:40:27 2005
From: john at hazen.net (John Hazen)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:40:27 -0700
Subject: Background process for ssh port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.01.23.17.38.878080@columbia.edu>
References: <pan.2005.10.01.23.17.38.878080@columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <20051004194027.GB31364@gate2.hazen.net>

Hi Jesse-

> def hostforward():
>     #This is based on the assumption that the passfile is the gnus
>     #authinfo file, or has a similar format...
>     f = open(PASS_FILE, "r")
>     f_list = f.read().split(' ')
>     f.close()
>     #Now, we get the entry after "password" (be slicker to make it a
>     #dictionary, but maybe wouldn't work as well).
>     pass_index = f_list.index('password') + 1
>     forwardpass = f_list[pass_index]
>     #now we connect
>     command = 'ssh -l %s -L 2022:%s:22 %s' % \
>               (login, my_server, forwarding_server)
>     connection = pexpect.spawn(command)
>     connection.expect('.*assword:')
>     connection.sendline(forwardpass)
> 
> If I end this with 'connection.interact()', I will end up logged in to the
> forwarding server. But what I really want is to go on and run rsync to
> localhost port 2022, which will forward to my_server port 22. So, how can
> I put the ssh connection I set up in hostforward() in the background?
> I need to make sure that connection is made before I can run the rsync
> command.

I think what's happening is that when you return from 'hostforward', the
connection is being closed because of garbage collection.  Python uses
(among other stuff) reference counting to tell it when to delete
objects.  After hostforward returns from execution, there are no longer
any references to 'connection', so it gets deleted, which cleans up the
connection.

You probably want to add:

    return connection

at the end of hostforward, and call it like:

connection = hostforward()
my_rsync_function()
connection.close()   # or whatever the approved pexpect cleanup is


Hope that helps-

John


From jadedgamer at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 16 04:11:07 2005
From: jadedgamer at hotmail.com (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 10:11:07 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>     How is that better? Nothing in your car depends upon what tires you have 
> on. But all of the rest of the software on your computer is dependent upon 
> your choice of OS.

Which cars let you install another engine as easily as you can install
a new operating system? Admit the analogy sucks, like all car-computer
analogies invariably do.

>     I don't really know why and I don't particularly care. I think it has a 
> lot to do with support costs and may also have to do with the type of deals 
> Microsoft offers.

Microsoft apologists always assume that training cost for Windows
users are zero, that people "know" Windows from the start. If that was
true, there would not be a multi-million market in Windows user
support.

>     The point is, they do. And there's nothing unusual, immoral, or 
> problemmatic about it. If you don't think the total package is worth the 
> total package price, buy elsewhere.

But when Microsoft were doing their illegal arm-wringing of dealers,
there was no "elsewhere" to go.


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Thu Oct 13 14:10:37 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:10:37 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Scott David Daniels <scott.daniels at acm.org> writes:
> 
>>Current speeds are due to deep pipelines, and a conditional in the
>>INCREF code would blow a pipeline.
> 
> 
> I think most of the time, branch prediction will prevent the cache
> flush.
But, branch prediction is usually a compiler thing, based on code
that is, in this case, a spot in the interpreter that is actually
taking both sides of the branch quite often.  If you split the
interpreter to have a "presumed int" side, you might do OK, but
that is not how the code works at the moment.

> Some implementations use the low order bits as tags with a tag==0
> meaning an integer.  That means if you have two tagged integers,
> you can add and subtract them without having to twiddle the tags.
You can do so only once you discover you have two tagged integers.
The test for tagged integers (rather, the subsequent branch) is the
thing that blows the pipe.

> The alternative (tag==1 means integer) means you don't have to mask
> off the tag bits to dereference pointers, and you can still add a
> constant to a tagged int by simply adjusting the constant
> appropriately.  
And this presumes an architecture which byte-addresses and only
uses "aligned" addresses.


--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 11:52:21 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:52:21 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net><mailman.1272.1128089690.509.python-list@python.org><dhqr8r$tcb$00$3@news.t-online.com>
	<200510070105.12846.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <di65jo$90g$1@sea.gmane.org>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
> reading it as written pretty much makes sense).

as a native Python speaker, I find that argument being remarkably weak.  things
I write in Python should make sense in Python, not in some other language.

(besides, we already have way too many languages designed by self-proclaimed
linguists)

</F>





From http  Mon Oct 10 00:44:31 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 21:44:31 -0700
Subject: best Pythonic way to do this sort: Python newb
References: <rQl2f.3390$gj1.199@fed1read05>
Message-ID: <7xbr1y9e1c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> writes:
> myList = [[value1, value2, value3],[value1, value2, value3], ...]
> 
> I have a function which takes value3 from the lists above and returns
> another value.  I want to use this returned value to sort the lists.
> 
> So, my resultant list would be ordered by the return value of the
> function with value3 as its argument.
> 
> From a relative Python newb, what is the best way to do this?

def get_key(x): return x[2]
sorted_list = sorted(myList, key=get_key)


From pnau at sjm.com  Tue Oct  4 01:42:52 2005
From: pnau at sjm.com (pnau at sjm.com)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 22:42:52 -0700
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
Message-ID: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've stuck my neck out and am in the integration stage of a rather
important project at my company, which wears dot net blinders.  The
program is not too big: I've cranked out 3K lines of code, quite a bit
of which is unit tested, but my eyes are starting to glaze, and now I'm
stuck (and not just my neck :-).  If I can get the show back on the
road and bring it to a conclusion, I'll be able to persuade a lot of
people to look closely at Python (not to mention the job retention
aspect :-).

The main jist of the problem is that I'm trying add data from one
module to a list and a dictionary in another module, and it doesn't
seem to stick over there.

The programs below seem to illustrate the issue.  (The results follow
the programs).
Why are the results different from runs of the two programs?  The
output of nameSpaceTestB.py makes sense to me, but I just don't get why
nameSpaceTestA.py does what it does.

I'm sure the reason is very simple, but I just don't see it.  Please,
can someone shed some light on the issue for me?

Thanks!

~Peter

---------------------------------
nameSpaceTestA.py:
import nameSpaceTestB as NSB

normalQ = [ 37]
abc = 25

def indirect( ) :
   normalQ.append( 44)

   print "printing from NSA:"
   print normalQ

   NSB.updateNSA( )

   print "printing from NSA:"
   print normalQ
   print "abc = %d" % abc

if __name__ == '__main__' :

   indirect()

---------------------------------
nameSpaceTestB.py:
import nameSpaceTestA as NSA

def updateNSA( ) :
   print "printing from NSB:"
   print NSA.normalQ
   NSA.normalQ.append( "gotcha")
   print NSA.normalQ
   print NSA.abc
   NSA.abc = 666
   print NSA.abc


if __name__ == '__main__' :
   NSA.indirect()
---------------------------------
> py24 nameSpaceTestA.py
printing from NSA:
[37, 44]
printing from NSB:
[37]
[37, 'gotcha']
25
666
printing from NSA:
[37, 44]
abc = 25
>
---------------------------------
> py24 nameSpaceTestB.py
printing from NSA:
[37, 44]
printing from NSB:
[37, 44]
[37, 44, 'gotcha']
25
666
printing from NSA:
[37, 44, 'gotcha']
abc = 666



From email at christoph-haas.de  Sat Oct  1 19:35:14 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 01:35:14 +0200
Subject: Printing and prompting adds a mysterious extra space
In-Reply-To: <20051001220948.GA3403@unpythonic.net>
References: <mailman.1324.1128191337.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128197861.418869.221640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051001214428.GA22491@torf.workaround.org>
	<20051001220948.GA3403@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20051001233514.GA30404@torf.workaround.org>

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 05:09:48PM -0500, jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:
> Use sys.stdout.write instead of print.  It will solve these problems you are
> having.
> 
> If you really want to know what's going on, read the language manual,
> http://docs.python.org/ref/print.html It explains the behavior of this extra
> space, which is output by a successive 'print' statement.  The implementation
> uses an attribute called 'softspace', which is described in
> http://docs.python.org/lib/bltin-file-objects.html 

Thank you for the technical explanation. "print a,b" is nice to read
in simple Python programs. But when you need to get more control of
I/O it's better to know what's really happening inside.

So the "softspace" is always added after a "print a," statement but only
printed if Python thinks it is not at the beginning of a terminal line.
Interesting.

Again, thanks. I'll rest my case.

 Christoph
-- 
I'm still confused - just on a higher level now.
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Wed Oct  5 04:52:17 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:52:17 GMT
Subject: Confused with module and .py files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1497.1128500379.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1497.1128500379.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5vM0f.13069$RZ.594052@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
> Actually I am bit confused between the modules and .py file
> How do I differentiate between the 2.
> 
> For example
> I have a file import1.py, import2.py file
> Which has few functions and classes
> And if I have a class with same name "BaseClass" in both the file
> 
> How would I use it if I declare it as given below in my 3rd class
> 
> from import1.py import *
> from import2.py import *

Name conflicts like that are a good reason not to use from ... import *,
but instead:

import import1
import import2

bc1 = import1.BaseClass()
bc2 = import2.BaseClass()

(Note: don't include the extension .py in the import statements)

Namespaces are great for preventing name conflicts; don't circumtvent
them by blindly importing everything into the same namespace. As the Zen
of Python says: "Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more
of those!"

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From timr at probo.com  Wed Oct  5 23:36:32 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 03:36:32 GMT
Subject: question about smtplib
References: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1404.1128375138.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128380307.865252.289510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1494k1pvqvo9lg21q8bhi9qrgmc2ftl5kn@4ax.com>
	<lud5ml1ufu.fsf@ohana.lan>
Message-ID: <hs69k1lf2pvds6lv4de7g7mr7qlnfo585n@4ax.com>

Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:

>>>>>> Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> (TR) wrote:
>
>>TR> nephish at xit.net wrote:
>>>> cool. so this line
>>>> server = smtplib.SMTP(localhost)
>>>> is when i connect ?
>
>>TR> Use the source, Luke.  Source code for every standard module is included on
>>TR> your hard disk.  If you look in the __init__ for "class SMTP", your
>>TR> question will be answered.
>
>The documentation should be the ultimate reference for the API. The source
>is just implementation detail which may change in the future.

I won't argue with that, but the question of "exactly when does the
connection occur" is in itself an implementation detail.  I wouldn't expect
it to be answered in the documentation.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 07:05:43 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:05:43 +1000
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2319.1129827209.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.11.05.42.788160@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:25:27 -0700, Micah Elliott wrote:

> I thought that string concatenation was rather
> expensive, so its being faster than %-formatting surprised me a bit:

Think about what string concatenation actually does: 

s = "hello " + "world"

In pseudo-code, it does something like this:

- Count chars in "hello" (six chars).
- Count chars in "world" (five chars).
- Allocate eleven bytes.
- Copy six chars from "hello " and five from "world" into the newly
allocated bit of memory.

(This should not be thought of as the exact process that Python uses, but
simply illustrating the general procedure.)

Now think of what str-formatting would do:

s = "hello %s" % "world"

In pseudo-code, it might do something like this:

- Allocate a chunk of bytes, hopefully not too big or too small.
- Repeat until done:
    - Copy chars from the original string into the new string, 
    until it hits a %s placeholder.
    - Grab the next string from the args, and copy chars from 
    that into the new string. If the new string is too small, 
    reallocate memory to make it bigger, potentially moving 
    chunks of bytes around.

The string formatting pseudo-code is a lot more complicated and has to do
more work than just blindly copying bytes. It has to analyse the bytes it
is copying, looking for placeholders.

So string concatenation is more efficient, right? No. The thing is, a
*single* string concatenation is almost certainly more efficient than a
single string concatenation. But now look what happens when you repeat it:

s = "h" + "e" + "l" + "l" + "o" + " " + "w" + "o" + "r" + "l" + "d"

This ends up doing something like this:

- Allocate two bytes, copying "h" and "e" into them.
- Allocate three bytes, copying "he" and "l" into them.
- Allocate four bytes, copying "hel" and "l" into them.
... 
- Allocate eleven bytes, copying "hello worl" and "d" into them.

The problem is that string concatenation doesn't scale efficiently. String
formatting, on the other hand, does more work to get started, but scales
better.

See, for example, this test code:

py> def tester(n):
...     s1 = ""
...     s2 = "%s" * n
...     bytes = tuple([chr(i % 256) for i in range(n)])
...     t1 = time.time()
...     for i in range(n):
...             s1 = s1 + chr(i % 256)
...     t1 = time.time() - t1
...     t2 = time.time()
...     s2 = s2 % bytes
...     t2 = time.time() - t2
...     assert s1 == s2
...     print t1, t2
...
py> x = 100000
py> tester(x)
3.24212408066 0.01252317428
py> tester(x)
2.58376598358 0.01238489151
py> tester(x)
2.76262307167 0.01474809646

The string formatting is two orders of magnitude faster than the
concatenation. The speed difference becomes even more obvious when you
increase the number of strings being concatenated:

py> tester(x*10)
2888.56399703 0.13130998611

Almost fifty minutes, versus less than a quarter of a second.


-- 
Steven.



From juho.schultz at helsinki.fi  Fri Oct 28 03:42:05 2005
From: juho.schultz at helsinki.fi (Juho Schultz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:42:05 +0300
Subject: Jpg
In-Reply-To: <1130349223.948333.83230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130349223.948333.83230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djskob$m7s$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Tuvas wrote:
> I am building a GUI interface at the moment, and would like to have
> support for displaying a jpg file, and a FITS file if possible. Is
> there any way to do this? My interface has been written in Tkinter at
> the moment, especially because of it's great portability, I wouldn't
> have to install the other interface software on every computer that I
> use (At the moment it is 3, and will signifigantly increase). I'd
> prefer to only use built-in functions, but if it can't be done, I'm
> willing to look for something else. Is there any way I can do this?
> Thanks!
> 

For FITS file reading, an alternative to pCFITSIO is PyFITS (http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/pyfits).
I guess both need numarray...

gifImage = Tkinter.PhotoImage(file="file.gif")
ima = yourCanvas.create_image(xpos,ypos,image=gifImage)

is the quickest way to display gifs. My version of Tkinter (1.177)
does not directly support jpg, but with PIL that should be possible.

Ugly but quick solution (for Linux): produce gifs from FITS/jpg
files with os.system("convert") and feed them to Tkinter.


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Tue Oct 18 15:13:53 2005
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:13:53 +0100
Subject: wxPython question
In-Reply-To: <1129625587.831829.277820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129207833.953525.266880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<434e5dac$0$25428$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
	<1129625587.831829.277820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43554972$0$21365$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

vpr wrote:
> I've had some problems, it seems that they dont render well in Linux. I
> tried it with Ubuntu Breezy.

I suspect that the animation may cause problems because of all the 
refreshes. Perhaps you can render the window first then save it as a 
bitmap. A simple blit should be better for the animation.

HTH,

Will McGugan
-- 
http://www.willmcgugan.com
"".join({'*':'@','^':'.'}.get(c,0) or chr(97+(ord(c)-84)%26) for c in 
"jvyy*jvyyzpthtna^pbz")


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 05:45:16 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:45:16 +0100
Subject: p2exe using wine/cxoffice
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A0@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>


> James Stroud wrote:
>> "better". The only reason I want this functionality is to make my
software
>> available to windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they
are
>> people too. That's what I always say.


Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> writes:
> Actually, I think it's many unix/linux users who are ignorant of just
> how nice, stable and productive Windows can be as a desktop
environment.
>
> ... and I really mean that.  ;-).

> Thomas Heller:
> I was waiting for someone to say that.
> +1.

Well, I'm with you. I'm sure a lot of people will chime in to
point out just how flexible and useful and productive Linux
is as a workstation, but every time I try to use it -- and
I make an honest effort -- I end up back in Windows where
I've been at home for 10 years and more. I don't claim
that Windows has some overall superiority; I merely claim
that -- as a professional programmer -- I find Windows at
least as easy and comfortable and productive for my tasks
as Linux.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 18 03:30:59 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:30:59 +0100
Subject: bug in os.system?
In-Reply-To: <1129619331.578069.97430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129617198.528491.125830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129619331.578069.97430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj28bf$brs$1@sea.gmane.org>

wjzrules at gmail.com wrote:
> What happens when you try it without the single quotes?
>  result = os.system("pythonbugtest.exe" "test")
> 
That would be equivalent to

   result = os.system("pythonbugtest.exetest")

which almost certainly won't do anything useful.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From noway at sorry.com  Tue Oct 11 05:53:49 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:53:49 GMT
Subject: A faster shutil.rmtree or maybe a command.
References: <1129024138.029854.80350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <NYL2f.7235$Pe2.163614@twister2.libero.it>

martijn at gamecreators.nl wrote:

> Sometimes I must delete 2 very big directory's.
> The directory's have a very large tree with much small file's in it.
>
> So I use shutil.rmtree()
> But its to slow.
>
> Is there a faster method ?


Is os.system("rm -rf %s" % directory_name) much faster?
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From rich.teer at rite-group.com  Sun Oct  9 12:34:58 2005
From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:34:58 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <pjhhk1p0lqtduekojm7er9i6g84fjef12n@4ax.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
	<pjhhk1p0lqtduekojm7er9i6g84fjef12n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.58.0510090917390.21577@excalibur>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Roedy Green wrote:

> This is pulling a King Canute.  There is not even a mechanism in email
> protocols to warn your correspondents of your demand.  I have been

Yes there is: the message my server sends someone sending me HTML
says so quite plainly.  That Outhouse (and presumably other WIndoze
email clients) choses to not display the real message and put up
some other generic, "user friendly" (but totally techie useless)
message besides the point.

> There is nothing wrong with formatted text. You are confusing
> formatted text with spam.
>
> You think you hated formatted text, but you really hate spam.

Please don't presume to think for me.  I've been using email and
the Internet for over 10 years, and I think I can differentiate
between spam and formatted text.  I hate spam, that's a given.
But I hate spam that's in plain text as well as formatted text.

I hate HTML email for several reasons, including:

	1. it's wasteful of bandwidth

	2. it enourages people to put form over content

	3. it doesn't display properly on my email client of choice,
	   which, BTW, I've been using in various versions for 10+
	   years.

There are probably others, but you get my drift.  You'll also notice
that I deliberately didn't list the security issues.  HTML is for
web sites, not email.

> If your lover sent you a message with photo, and even musical
> accompaniment, I doubt you would feel offended.  It is the CONTENT
> bugging you, not the HTML.

No it isn't.  And my wife knows better than to do that.  When she
sends me virtual boquets, she does so in the correctmanner: she
sends me a plain text link to a web site that does all the fancy
stuff, including background music.  That is how it should be.

> You imagine that the two are inexplicably linked. That is just because

No I don't.

> Eudora warns you of deceptive links in HTML. There are many more such

I am fortuanate enough to not use Windoze.

> unfair to blame formatting for the foolish practice off allowing
> untrusted code to run without even an ok.  They have nothing to do
> with each other.

Agreed.  But as I said above, I have many other issues with HTML emails,
over and above the security concerns.

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 17:46:32 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 21:46:32 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<omv4l1l8f6psuelpn5lc13j909c69a09sc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2AAA528E1castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 16 Oct 2005 00:47:09 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web based, 
>>and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions matter? 
> 
> The point is you make your choice based on quality of the OS and
> distribution, not whether it can run a given piece of software.

But some clients will work better with web based software, or make the 
users believe so. If this idea was correct, why aren't all browsers equal 
in usage and performance? Instead of quality, people seem to pick a browser 
based on zealotism, look and feel, how well it can be extended, or if a 
major player is behind it.

> Web apps, Java and other multiplatform tools force OSes to compete on
> quality, not on proprietary lockin.

Nah, they compete on gadgets, and the ignorance of the majority of users. 

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 00:19:00 2005
From: sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 21:19:00 -0700
Subject: tkinter blues (greens, reds, ...)
In-Reply-To: <JfA8f.214955$p_1.132419@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1130519159.921821.164420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2684.1130523517.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dpu8f.214915$p_1.133627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130534916.236147.314810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<JfA8f.214955$p_1.132419@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130559540.711828.26960@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi ron

changing from english words to hexadecimal numerals did the trick for
me, so everything's cool now. thanks for looking at it.

peace



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 17 20:02:48 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:02:48 -0400
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>

dcrespo wrote:
>>Define what "get" means for your purposes.  It appears that you mean you
>>want to catch the exception, but in the thread which launched the other
>>thread in the first place.  If that's true, please show where you would
>>expect to catch this exception, given that when you start the thread,
>>the main thread continues running and might even finish before the other
>>thread finishes.
> 
> In my above example, I want to catch in ProgramA the raised exception
> in ProgramB. 

Better not to call them "programs" since they're not separate programs, 
just separate modules, one of which starts a thread using methods in the 
other module.

And you haven't really answered the questions I asked.  Please show 
exactly where you expect to catch the exception, given the points I note 
above.  Before, after, or during the .start() call, or somewhere else?

> Please, look at my example one more time.

Done.  It didn't really help looking at it a third time.  It's still 
unclear what you want.

Maybe explaining the use case would help you help us help you. :-)

Your example seems contrived.  In the real code you want to write, why 
do you expect an exception to occur?  Will it be raised deliberately, as 
you show in the example, or is it unexpected (and unhandled by any 
try/except at the top level of the thread's run() method)?  Or do you 
really need to use an exception here?

I'm quite sure the problem you are trying to solve can be solved, but 
you are still describing part of the solution you believe you need, 
rather than explaining why you want to do this (which may let us show 
you other, simpler or cleaner ways to accomplish your goals).

-Peter


From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Fri Oct  7 12:09:10 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 09:09:10 -0700
Subject: How to run python scripts with IDLE
In-Reply-To: <1128690531.661166.102690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128690531.661166.102690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128701350.660096.244310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What are you developing for?

You could write another small python scripts, which calls your script.
os.system("python yours.py --param ?nic?de")



From erchamion.beren at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 04:06:05 2005
From: erchamion.beren at gmail.com (Sinan Nalkaya)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:06:05 +0300
Subject: button design in curses library
Message-ID: <434CC3ED.7010109@gmail.com>

hi,
im using curses library in my program, i need a button. but i cannot 
find anything about it. should i do the button via newwin function with 
bold characters ?
any help will be appreciated
thanks.


From nil at dev.nul  Tue Oct 11 01:05:53 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:05:53 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews><die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list at python.org...
> Christian Stapfer wrote:
>> "George Sakkis" <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote in message 
>> news:1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8 at teranews...
>>
>>>"Christian Stapfer" <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>>>><ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>try to use set.
>>>>
>>>>    Sorting the two lists and then extracting
>>>>A-B, B-A, A|B, A & B and A ^ B in one single
>>>>pass seems to me very likely to be much faster
>>>>for large lists.
>>>
>>>Why don't you implement it, test it and time it
>>>to be more convincing about your intuition ?
>>
>> The problem is in the generation of the test data.
>> Even merely generating a set of (suitably "average",
>> "random", and suitably "worst case") datasets might
>> turn out to be a major undertaking.
>>  If the documentation stated the order-of-magnitude
>> behavior of those basic operations up front, then
>> I (and *anyone* else who ever wanted to use those
>> operations on large lists / large sets) could do
>> a quick order-of-magnitude estimation of how
>> a certain program design will behave, performance
>> wise.
>>   *Experimenting* is not necessarily as easy to
>> do as you seem to believe. How do you, for example,
>> hit upon the worst-case behavior with your test
>> data? - Without knowing *anything* about the
>> implementation it might a matter sheer luck.
>> If you *know* something about the implementation
>> then, of course, you might be able to figure it
>> out. (But note that if you know *that* much about
>> the implementation, you usually have an order-of-
>> magnitude estimate anyway and don't need to do
>> *any* experimenting in order to answer my question.)
>>
> You are, of course, either assuming that there's a
> single implementation of Python,

Of course not!

> or that all implementations have the same behaviour.

Of course not!

But it is reasonable, anyway, to ask for information
about a specific implementation (that one is *forced*
to use). Performance *will* depend on it, whether we
like it or not, whether that information is given by
the implementer or not.
  And if the implementer wants to complain that
giving such information would break his wonderful
abstraction then I can only answer: It is *reality*
that *will* break your abstraction as regards
performance! It is, therefore, absolutely *no*
use to *pretend* you *can* avoid this form of "breaking
the abstraction" by simply avoiding to mention it
in the documentation...

> Or  alternatively you are asking all implementers
> to do what you seem to consider so difficult
> (i.e. identify worst-case scenarios and then estimate order-of-magnitude 
> behaviour for them).

I consider it the job of the implementer to know
about the trade-offs that he has been making in
choosing one particular implementation, and to
know what computational complexity therefore
attaches to the various operations exposed in
its interface. Why should *every* user of his
module be forced to either read the source
code of his implementation or try to figure
it out experiment-wise on his own?

> Test results with known test data are relatively
> easy to extrapolate from, and if your test data
> are reasonably representative of live data then so will your performance 
> estimates.

How reasonable is it to ask me, or anyone else
for that matter, to extract, experiment-wise
(if it can be done at all with reasonable effort)
information that properly belongs to the implementer
and really should have been exposed in the
documentation in the first place?

> Anyway, aren't you more interested in average
> behaviour than worst-case? Most people are.

It depends. *I* am NOT the OP of this thread.
*The*OP* had asked for an "efficient" way
to do what he needed to do. There are many
measures of efficiency. Even "programmer efficiency"
may be one of them. But I assumed that, since
the OP took the time to ask his question in this
NG, that it really was about "computational
efficiency". Then he was offered solutions -
but they were offered just matter-of-factly.
*Surely* those who had posted those solutions
would be able to answer my question *why*
it was, that they *assumed* conversion into
sets to be more efficient than operating
on the lists in the first place. I was *not*
at all criticizing anyone (except, perhaps,
the Python documentation for its lack of
*insightful* information): I was just asking
for a *small* clarification that I *assumed*
(mistakenly it now appears) others could
*easily* provide.

Regards,
Christian
--
"Those who cannot remember the past are
 condemned to repeat it."
 - George Santayana 




From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 08:58:23 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:58:23 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
References: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndluv7e.fiq.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Tim Golden enlightened us with:
> But as far as I can tell from my experience and from the docs -- and
> I'm not near a Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall
> line x in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2
> etc.  Or can you?

With bash as well as the Python interactive shell:

    - ^R followed by a partial string to search
    - Hit ^R again to get the previous match, repeat as required
    - Hit ^A/^E to move the cursor to the beginning/end of the line,
      stopping the "search mode". This allows you to use arrow up/down
      from that point in the readline history.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 16:34:21 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:34:21 +0200
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<434031f6$0$73596$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
Message-ID: <dhpg8e$s61$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Michael" wrote:

> List comprehensions get their name (AFAICT) very clearly from set
> comprehensions in mathematics. As a result anyone who has ever seen
> a set comprehension in maths goes "oooh, I see". They're not the same, but
> IMO they're close enough to warrant that name.

fwiw, they've also been around for ages:

    http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?list+comprehension

(the name goes back to the early eighties, the construct is older than that)

</F>





From ark at acm.org  Sun Oct 16 14:27:04 2005
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:27:04 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<wzzmpf80cj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<1129129852.92dc41cf1bd445c448e00bd42ec59500@teranews>
	<4rmdnW7aD-pYAdDenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <YXw4f.443643$5N3.80075@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
news:4rmdnW7aD-pYAdDenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d at powergate.ca...
> Dave Hansen wrote:
>> So lose the "if."
>>
>>    R = C then A else B

I think that part of the argument for the "A if C else B" syntax is that 
"then" is not currently a reserved word.




From noway at sorry.com  Sat Oct 15 20:00:08 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:00:08 GMT
Subject: Some set operators
References: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4hwtl.np9wjhchw3duN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <cKg4f.14993$Pe2.304269@twister2.libero.it>

Alex Martelli <aleax at mail.comcast.net> wrote:

> I still vaguely hope that in 3.0, where backwards incompatibilities
> can be introduced, Python may shed some rarely used operators such as
> these (for all types, of course).


I hope there is no serious plan to drop them. There is nothing wrong in having
such operators, and I wouldn't flag bit operations as "rarely used". They are
very common when calling C-based API and other stuff. I know I use them very
often. They have a clear and well-understood meaning, as they appear identical
in other languages, including the widely-spread C and C++.

Giovanni Bajo




From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Wed Oct 12 17:39:02 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:39:02 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1945.1129109694.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4ce9x.v65tbpm7xivfN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Rune Strand <rune.strand at gmail.com> wrote:

> > those modules are already imported when Python gets to your code, so
> > the only "overhead" you're saving is a little typing.
> 
> I don't understand this. Could you please elaborate?  - if sys or os
> are not imported for any other causes how are they already imported?

The "other causes" are always present, since these modules include
functionality Python always needs -- a fact that is no big secret,
either.  For example: you know (I assume and hope) that Python's import
statement finds files to import along directories (and zipfiles) listed
in sys.path -- so how do you think 'sys' itself can possibly get
'imported' in the first place, since the import mechanism depends on one
of sys's attributes...?  Answer: sys is a built-in module, compiled into
the Python interpreter itself.  There are several, see
sys.builtin_file_names for a list.  'os' is a slightly different case --
it's not built-in, but gets imported anyway during startup because other
modules need it anyway.  In my build of Python 2.4.1, there are 16
built-in modules, and 9 others that aren't built-in but get imported at
startup -- check sys.modules on your version for the total number of
modules that are in memory by the time any code of yours runs.  (This is
with -S to inhibit Python from reading the site.py module, otherwise you
might get more... but never, I believe, could you get fewer).

> Maybe I'm wrong here, and accessing the filesystem and reading the
> module into memory represents no cost. My mistake, in that case.

Your mistake is due to a different case: the filesystem access and
reading have ALREADY happened (for os; for sys, as I explained, the
mechanism is different).  Therefore, an import does NO such access and
reading -- it just gets the module object from (e.g.) sys.modules['os'].


> > wow.  that's one lousy optimization...
> 
> > here's a *shorter* piece of code, which is also readable and portable, and
> > a lot easier to type on most keyboards:
> 
> >   import os
> >  __filename__ = os.path.basename(__file__)
> 
> It may be lousy, but it requires no imports. And, as I said in the

The point is that there's no substantial advantage to "requiring no
imports".  Python, if anything, already has too many built-ins -- once
backwards compatibility can be broken (i.e., in 3.0), many of them
should be moved to standard library modules, "requiring imports" (which
are cheap operations anyway).  The desire for MORE built-ins with no
real advantage (since "requiring no imports" ISN'T a true advantage) is
definitely misplaced.


Alex


From rNOSPAMon at flownet.com  Wed Oct 19 14:41:44 2005
From: rNOSPAMon at flownet.com (Ron Garret)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:41:44 -0700
Subject: question about timestamp and MySQLdb
References: <bew5f.2828$UF4.1651@fed1read02>
Message-ID: <rNOSPAMon-CCC70A.11414419102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>

In article <bew5f.2828$UF4.1651 at fed1read02>,
 "Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> wrote:

> I am using MySQLdb to connect to a database and retrieve a timestamp from a 
> table.  The problem is I want the timestamp as a long, unformatted and all.
> 
> In the table I have a timestamp like this
> 20051019111617
> 
> But, when I retrieve the value and print it I get
>  2005-10-19 11:16:17
> 
> I want the numeric version, not the converted date.  Any suggestions? 

Two suggestions:

1.  Read up on strftime.

2.  Rethink what you're doing because it's almost certainly wrong.

rg


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 20:05:35 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:05:35 +0100
Subject: reload fails if module not in sys.path
In-Reply-To: <1129849234.985211.141940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129849234.985211.141940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj9bc9$m6s$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lonnie Princehouse wrote:
> So, it turns out that reload() fails if the module being reloaded isn't
> in sys.path.
> 
> Maybe it could fall back to module.__file__ if the module isn't found
> in sys.path??
> ... or reload could just take an optional path parameter...
> 
> Or perhaps I'm the only one who thinks this is silly:
> 
> 
>>>>my_module = imp.load_module(module_name, *imp.find_module(module_name,path))
>>>>reload(my_module)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named whatever
> 
You appear to have failed to load some module called "whatever", which I 
presume is the value of module_name?
> 
> I guess I could just deal with this by fiddling with sys.path or using
> imp.load_module again, but.. um.. I like to complain. ;-)
> 
That's OK, but you may find fiddling with sys.path is more productive :-)

> The context here is that I'm loading user-defined modules as plugins,
> and I don't want to keep the plugin directory in sys.path because of
> potential module name conflicts.
> 
Hmm. I know that if your module isn't in sys.modules your reload will fail:

 >>> import trPyCard # picking a moduule at random
 >>> import sys
 >>> del sys.modules['trPyCard']
 >>> reload(trPyCard)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: reload(): module trPyCard not in sys.modules
 >>>

Apart from that, it would seem sensible not to try and use reload if you 
haven't used a kosher import mechanism - there are many caveats on the 
reload() documentation, and the mechanisms it uses aren't spelled out 
anywhere but in the interpreter source.

It would seem easier just to ensure that the plugins directory(ies) 
appear first on sys.path and use __import__(). imp is high magic.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 17:02:17 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Celine & Dave)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:02:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Debug Build
Message-ID: <20051003210217.88812.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

What happens if I build Python with debug option
(--with-pydebug)? Do I see any changes in my program
output? What is --with-pydebug good for?

Thanks.


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From mhardas at cs.kent.edu  Thu Oct 13 15:05:44 2005
From: mhardas at cs.kent.edu (mhardas at cs.kent.edu)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:05:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ImportError: No module named dbm
In-Reply-To: <dim49o$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <2229.131.123.36.10.1129218983.squirrel@webmail.cs.kent.edu>
	<dim49o$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4416.131.123.36.10.1129230344.squirrel@webmail.cs.kent.edu>

Hi, thanks for the reply.
firstly i couldnt find the DBM module for python 2.3.5, trustix system and
i386 hardware platform.
so i downloaded gnu dbm for python 2.3.5 and i568( precisly,
python-gdbm-2.3.5-4tr.i586), simply assuming it could just work.

but trying to install gives me the following error,

error: failed dependencies:
        python = 2.3.5 is needed by python-gdbm-2.3.5-4tr

I am preety sure its python 2.3.5 tht is installed.

Can you shed some light or give some pointers.

Thanks again, appreciate it.

Manas.



> mhardas at cs.kent.edu wrote:
>
>> Can you tell me how do I go about getting the dbm module and install
>> it.??
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=trustix+python+dbm
>
> </F>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 19:26:37 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:26:37 +1000
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86ll0h2so4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.23.26.36.953064@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:27:55 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:

>> On Tuesday 25 October 2005 00:31, Duncan Booth wrote:

>> Their differences in styles, like mine, probably arise from the culture of 
>> their respective fields. Most, like me, may not even know what the heck you 
>> are talking about. Also, here is a well written synopsis of the arguments in 
>> favor of top-posting and they may even be strong enough to legitimize the 
>> practice:
>>        http://alpage.ath.cx/toppost/toppost.htm
> 
> Well, if I could find a 300 baud modem, I might understand his
> objection to not top-posting (he really only has one). 

Perhaps he is hosting his website on a server with a 300 baud modem? It
times out for me... *wink*

A: Because it messes up the order in which people read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying email habit?


I wouldn't object to top-posting nearly so much if the average top-poster
had the writing skills of an illiterate sloth hunter in the jungles of
Borneo[1], but sadly most of them don't. I get people replying to an email
three weeks after I sent them the original, and they top-post the answer
"Yes, I agree". When I read it, my brain reboots from the sheer inanity of
it. You agree to *what*? Do I really care enough to read through the
entire thread -- which you've so *thoughtfully* quoted in its entirety,
eight levels deep, thank you very much -- to find out what you are
agreeing to?

And then when I do read through it, I discover that what was actually
asked was three or four *specific* questions like "How much memory would
you like your new PC to have?" and "Would you like wireless?".

Top-posting encourages stupid mistakes like that, by encouraging people to
hit send after they've said the first thing they thought of, without
actually reading through the email to see if there are other issues that
need to be dealt with.





[1] There are no sloths in Borneo.

-- 
Steven.



From fccoelho at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 08:55:14 2005
From: fccoelho at gmail.com (Flavio)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 05:55:14 -0700
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ok,

I got it!

Its vey insecure, and it is not guaranteed to work. Fine.

Now what would you do if you wanted to pass a lot of variables (like a
thousand) to a function and did not wanted the declare them in the
function header?

Fl?vio



From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Mon Oct 17 13:50:31 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:50:31 -0300
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-93FF0F.12484617102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <82F62990-3F36-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

This is very nice :-)  Thank you Tony.  I think this will be the way to  
go.  My concern ATM is where it will be best to unicode. The data after  
this will go into dict and a few processes and into database. Because  
input source if not explicit encoding, I will have to assume ISO-8859-1  
I believe but could well be cp1252 for most part ( because it says no  
ASCII (0-30) but alright ASCII chars 128-254) and because most are  
Windows users.  Am thinking to unicode after stripping these characters  
and validating text, then unicoding (utf-8) so it is unicode in dict.  
Then when I perform these other processes it should be uniform and then  
it will go into database as unicode.  I think this should be ok.

Regards,
David

On Monday, October 17, 2005, at 01:48 PM, Tony Nelson wrote:

> In article <mailman.2153.1129538807.509.python-list at python.org>,
>  David Pratt <fairwinds at eastlink.ca> wrote:
>
>> I am working with a text format that advises to strip any ascii  
>> control
>> characters (0 - 30) as part of parsing data and also the ascii pipe
>> character (124) from the data. I think many of these characters are
>> from a different time. Since I have never seen most of these  
>> characters
>> in text I am not sure how these first 30 control characters are all
>> represented (other than say tab (\t), newline(\n), line return(\r) )  
>> so
>> what should I do to remove these characters if they are ever
>> encountered. Many thanks.
>
> Most of those characters are hard to see.
>
> Represent arbitrary characters in a string in hex: "\x00\x01\x02" or
> with chr(n).
>
> If you just want to remove some characters, look into "".translate().
>
> nullxlate = "".join([chr(n) for n in xrange(256)])
> delchars = nullxlate[:31] + chr(124)
> outputstr = inputstr.translate(nullxlate, delchars)
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> _
> TonyN.:'                         
> *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
>       '                                   
> <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 16:11:29 2005
From: nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com (ncf)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 13:11:29 -0700
Subject: wxPython equiv. to tag_configure
Message-ID: <1128456689.100365.196050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all. I'm trying to do a system where I'm working on a set of windows
for both Tkinter and wxPython, and have come across a lovely little
bump in the road. Tkinter's Text object has tag_* methods, but I don't
know of a good way to do tag-related stuff with wxPython.

In the wxWidgets manual, I see a wxHtmlWindow object, but nothing like
that seems to exist when I dir() wxPython.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.



From martin.witte at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 11:53:14 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 08:53:14 -0700
Subject: Problems with properties
In-Reply-To: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <1129305194.247036.35550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you change it to this it works. You should provide a get and a set
function for a property.

class Task:
   def __init__(self, value):
     self._command = value

   def setCommand(self, value):
     self._command = value


   def getCommand(self):
     return self._command

   command=property(getCommand, setCommand)

class taskTest(TestCase):
     def testTask(self):
         t = Task("dir c:")
         c = t.command
         self.assertEquals("dir c:", c)

         # should fail, but doesn't
         t.command = "foo Bar"
         self.assertEquals("dir c:", t.command)


if __name__ == "__main__": 
     unittest.main()



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Wed Oct 12 11:50:17 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:50:17 -0400
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
References: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1129132506.ab1e6295283286960cd21918db1ebac4@teranews>

"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Comments are welcome:
>
>   http://www.pardon-sleeuwaegen.be/antoon/avltree.html

How about adding two shortcut methods, nextkey(k) and prevkey(k), to return the next and previous
key respectively ? For instance nextkey would be equivalent to (untested):

def nextkey(self, key):
    iter = self[key:]
    first = iter.next()
    if key not in self: return first
    else: return iter.next()

Also for consistency, nextvalue(k), prevvalue(k), nextitem(k), previtem(k) would be reasonable
additions.

And a question: what does step do if the keys are not integers since you restrict step to be integer
?

George




From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Thu Oct  6 08:53:56 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:53:56 +0200
Subject: /usr/bin/env python, force a version
In-Reply-To: <_n81f.14624$BS3.663683@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1600.1128599078.509.python-list@python.org>
	<_n81f.14624$BS3.663683@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <43451E64.4060005@designaproduct.biz>

Roel Schroeven wrote:

>Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
>  
>
>>manatlan at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I've got a trouble, and i think that anybody there can help me
>>>
>>>I've got a python script which i distribute in somes packages for *nix.
>>>This script is full of python and need python 2.4 ! And i'd like to
>>>display a message when the user doesn't have a python2.4 version.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>import sys
>>>>>sys.version
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>'2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]'
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, but the problem is also that Debian (not only Sid, but also stable
>and testing) has python 2.4 but it is not the default, i.e.
>/usr/bin/python is a symlink to /usr/bin/python2.3 even if
>/usr/bin/python2.4 is available to.
>  
>
Hmm.

Idea one:

Create a list of possible locations. First of all, use your PATH, and 
then add common locations:

['/bin','/usr/bin','/opt/bin','/usr/local/bin']  # etc.

Then use a list of the possible executable names:

['python','python2.3','python2.4'] # etc

Finally using these combinations, execute each executeable with

python -V

and examine its output. This may work, but I'm affraid there is no 
general solution.
The system administrator can install different python versions to 
virtually any location.
But I don't think you should be affraid of that. If a system admin 
installs different
versions into strange locations, then he will take the responsibility to 
fix python programs
that need a specific version. But in most cases, looking for a python 
executable
on your PATH should be enough; and it is the most I would expect from an 
application. :-)

Last idea:

    - create a configuration file that resides beside your Python program
    - take the path to the good executeable there
    - if the program was started with the wrong version, but you have 
the path to the good one (from the config file), then re-execute
    - otherwise print an error message telling the required version AND 
how the user can set it up in the config file

Third idea (for Windows only): read available versions from the 
registry. ;-)

Best,

  Les



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 16:26:25 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 13:26:25 -0700
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a dictionary
Message-ID: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

How can I replace all None values with the string 'Null' in a
dictionary?

For example:
convert this:
a = {'item1': 45, 'item2': None}

into this:
a = {'item1': 45, 'item2': 'Null'}

Thanks

Daniel



From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 29 23:03:09 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 20:03:09 -0700
Subject: How to translate python into C
In-Reply-To: <slrndm4neu.lsv.raims@voodoo.myself>
References: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130493304.961498.226200@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130493811.719479.160450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4neu.lsv.raims@voodoo.myself>
Message-ID: <1130641389.709221.40670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Szabolcs and Laurence, it's not the crash of python but the
crash of cygwin. We can locate the line number but when we submit the
crash to cygwin's mail list, they told us they don't speak python. So
I'm just trying to re-produce the crash in C. 

Regards, 
Johnny



From toufeeqh at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 02:23:39 2005
From: toufeeqh at gmail.com (Toufeeq Hussain)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:53:39 +0530
Subject: Help needed in OOP-Python
In-Reply-To: <dhvpto$o0q$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c293dd340510042234s74a4db47x85bdd5658a1ad803@mail.gmail.com>
	<dhvpto$o0q$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c293dd340510042323o14db7dcdn43b7f21c376b2e48@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Fredrik,

On 10/5/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>
> Toufeeq Hussain wrote:
>
> > I have 3 modules which have class declarations in them and which
> implement
> > multiple inheritance.
>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > File "E:\PyPBM\PyPBM\test_case.py", line 7, in ?
> >TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()
>
> there's no line that says "TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()" in the
> code you're posted. looks like you didn't really post the code you
> tested...
>

my bad. :(

It's there under "script" but in a different form.

Script
-----
import Module3

Test_Case = Module3.Option1_Rule1()
Test_Case.Option1_constraint()


Test_Case = "Module3.Option1_Rule1()" corresponds to "TH =
constraint.Option1_Rule1()"

My coding is really really bad,that's why I changed the names to more human
readable form(Module1,2.. etc).

Thanks for pointing it out,
Toufeeq
--
Get Firefox:http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
The fastest, safest and best Browser !!
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From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:43:46 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:43:46 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<8ohgk1p9s6pgaq8d67bgpjg7i8i22ngiul@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.43.44.617588@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:25:23 +0000, Roedy Green wrote about HTML emails:

> Just how long do you want to stall evolution?

Evolution doesn't mean "use whatever broken solution Microsoft and Hotmail
popularized, just because all my friends are using it."

If and when somebody puts out a good rich text email format, I'll use it.
Until then, I won't use HTML.

> Do you imagine people 200 years from now will be still be using pure
> ASCII text unable to find a solution to JavaScript viruses (turn off
> JS), pop-up( disable popups) etc.?

Firstly, I don't care what people will be using in 200 years. I don't care
if in 200 years the default email format is so big and bloated that it
takes three weeks to download even a single sentence, because I won't be
around to suffer.

If you think that people will be using the current data formats for email
in two centuries, you're crazy.


-- 
Steven.



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sun Oct 30 13:26:29 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:26:29 +0100
Subject: Need Python Pro for Help!! Plzz
In-Reply-To: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
References: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <FNidncXTbq3vjfjeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

blah at blah.blah wrote:
> Need python Pro at newtopython at googlegroups.com , if u wanna help, plz 
> reply to that address. We are python beginners. need a real good 
> Python Programmer for Help. TIA!!

If you need help, post questions to the newsgroups. That way you might 
get help from several people instead of just one.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Thu Oct 13 19:11:59 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:11:59 -0000
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3r80ugFi4defU1@individual.net>

What I can point you to is not Python, but embedding it in Python
is a question of executing one line of Python code triggering its
execution.
I think you will be fascinated by its features and ease of use and
how well it is suited to fit into your needs:
  http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.php
With it you will start to see, that forcing to obey to Windows way
of doing things has not only bad sides.

Is there something similar for another OSs-es (especially Linux)?

Claudio

"Kenneth McDonald" <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list at python.org...
> For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP
> (from OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that
> I can only compare it to driving in the Bay Area at rush hour (OS X
> is like driving in Portland at rush hour--not as bad, but getting
> there), but there are really only a couple of things that are really,
> absolutely preventing me from making the switch. Number one is the
> lack of a decent command line and command-line environment, and I'm
> wondering (hoping) if perhaps someone has written a "Python shell"-- 
> something that will look like a regular shell, let users type in
> commands, maybe have some of the nice features of bash etc. like tab
> completion, etc, and will then execute an underlying python script
> when the command is entered. I'm not thinking of IDLE, but something
> that is really aimed more at being a system terminal, not a Python-
> specific terminal.
>
> Yes, I know that Cygwin is out there, but last I looked, they still
> went through the Win command-line window, which imposes a lot of
> restrictions.
>
> More generally, has anyone written any python programs to administer
> various Win settings for which one must otherwise delve deep into
> mazes of twisty little dialogs, all alike? Or to help out with other
> annoyances? I know there are a lot of general utilities, but if
> they're in Python, I can also use them as a starting base for my own
> needs.
>
> Finally, a significant incentive in doing this is that I could avoid
> a lot of installation hassle, since virtually everything has at least
> a decent installation package for Win. (I'd hoped this would happen
> for OS X, but it never has). Can anyone think of important python-
> related packages (release level, not cutting edge alphas) for which
> this might not be the case?
>
> Many thanks,
> Ken




From iainking at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 05:23:34 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 02:23:34 -0700
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
In-Reply-To: <434eb32d$0$29544$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
References: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>
	<mailman.1927.1129080609.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434eb32d$0$29544$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1129281814.178263.171520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Andrea Gavana wrote:
> I have tried your solution, Terry:
>
> > new_hue   # your 'basic color', just the hue part
> > rgb_base  # color from the basic button image
> > rgb_new   # the new color you want to replace rgb_base with
> >
> > rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb( (new_hue,) + rgb_to_hsv(rgb_base)[1:])
>
>
> thanks a lot for your suggestion! However, either I did not understand it
> correctly or I am doing something stupid in my code. Here is a small
> example:
>
> from colorsys import *
>
> # that is the old colour --> GREY
> rgb_old = (0.7, 0.7, 0.7)
>
> # Transform the new colour in HSV
> hsv_old = rgb_to_hsv(rgb_old[0], rgb_old[1], rgb_old[2])
>
> # this is the new colour --> BLUE
> rgb_new = (0.0, 0.0, 1.0)
>
> # Transform the new colour in HSV
> hsv_new = rgb_to_hsv(rgb_new[0], rgb_new[1], rgb_new[2])
>
> # I take only the Hue part of the new colour
> new_hue = hsv_new[0]
>
> # Get the new colour
> rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb(new_hue, hsv_old[1], hsv_old[2])
>
> print rgb_old
> print rgb_new
> print rgb_old == rgb_new
>
>
> This prints:
>
> (0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996)
> (0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996)
> True
>
> So, no matter what colour I choose as a "new" colour, the Hue part of the
> new colour doesn't change in RGB. In other words, leaving the old value for
> "Saturation" and "Value" makes the presence of the "Hue" part useless. But
> why in the world does this happen? If a colour is defined by 3 values,
> changes in every single value should change the colour too...

Not with HSV.  The hue determines which 'color' it will be - red, blue,
indigo, whatever.  That Saturation determined how vibrant this 'color'
will be.  V is brightness (I can't remember what the V actually stands
for).  Each of these values scales from 0 to 1, or 0% to 100%, however
you want to thiink about it.   If you try and picture the gradient
you'd get by plotting this range as a line, then:
The H line would be a spectrum of colours, like a rainbow.
Say we pick H to be RGB #FF0000 - Red
The S line would be a gradient ranging from grey (absense of color) to
red.
The V line would be a gradient ranging from black (completely dark) to
red.

So on the HSV scale, grey is represented by a saturation of 0 - meaning
none of H is present in the color; the color in question being
determined purely by it's brightness (V).  So when you pick your HSV
triplet for a grey color, you have to set S to 0.  You can set H to
anything at all - because S is 0, no tint of H will appear in the color
at all.

Iain             http://www.snakebomb.com



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 18:36:28 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:36:28 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:0hm233-0ut.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>> McDonald's won't sell a Burger King their burger patties.

> McDonald's are not in the business of wholesale distribution of burger
> patties so your statement is simply sited in the wrong universe of
> discourse.

    I don't know what drugs you're on, but the McDonald's corporation most 
certainly is in the business of the wholesale distribution of burger 
patties. One key reason to become a franchisee is to access their wholesale 
distribution network.

> Coming back to the current universe of discourse, I assure
> you that a McDonald's director can go into a Burger King and buy a
> burger like anyone else, so no discrimination.  Mind you - I'm not sure
> if they'd let Ronald in.  He's obviously dangerously nutty.

    That's not even remotely analogous. Microsoft didn't say that customers 
who bought OS2 couldn't buy Windows. They said (in acutality something less 
than that) people who buy Windows wholesale can't also resell other 
operating systems. This is perfectly analogous to McDonald's saying that 
retailers who buy their burger patties wholesale can't also sell Whoppers.

>>     You only run into a problem under United States law if the company is 
>> a
>> monopoly. And I've already addressed that issue in this thread.

> If MacDonalds were wholesale suppliers of hamburgers to the
> distribution trade,

    They are wholesale suppliers to those people who agree to their 
distribution terms. This requires, among other things, that you prepare them 
in a precise way and only sell approved items.

> then they couldn't discriminate among their
> customers for the purposes of altering the competitive nature of the
> market in hamburger sales to you and me across the counter.

    I'm afraid I don't understand what "altering the competitive nature of 
the market in hamburger sales" actually means. What is it that you are 
claiming they can't do?

> Companies
> have been sued for trying that - sports shoe manufacturers, I seem to
> recall.  They've tried to make sure their shoes are sold only by
> specified outlets at specified prices, in order to artificially manage
> the market.  That's illegal.  Sued they got (or perhaps "suede").

    What, precisely, is illegal?

    DS




From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 17:53:30 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 14:53:30 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-32A291.12103704102005@news.verizon.net>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<*firstname*nlsnews-32A291.12103704102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1128462810.732754.200570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Tony Nelson wrote:
> In article <1128395422.904212.318930 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>  "Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am developing a program for a client.  She runs a shop where her
> > clients bring in items for sale or short term buyback.  Development of
> > the program has been going great but she's mentioned that there is a
> > 'feature' coming up in the next couple of weeks that she'd like me to
> > implement that has me a bit worried.
> >
> > My client has told me a story of how she hired someone from a competing
> > store and that person had brought a copy of the program her competition
> > was using to track clients and transactions.  He couldn't demonstrate
> > the program for one reason or another because it was protected in a way
> > that neither could circumvent. (She didn't remember how it was
> > protected, she had hired this person a long time ago.)
> >
> > Now that I'm three months into the development of this program, my
> > client tells me she would like to protect her investment by preventing
> > her employees from doing the same to her.  (Going to the competition
> > and using her program.)
>  ...
>
> Call the competition and ask them what they used.  Point out that it
> worked.  If they won't tell you, just look at their software until you
> find out.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
>       '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>

Sorry.  All I have is this wonderful story to tell everyone.  This
employee she hired no longer works for her and the 'disk' that nobody
to could get working is gone as well.

Sadly there's nothing left for me to forensically examine.



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 23 01:30:36 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:30:36 -0400
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2319.1129827209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.11.05.42.788160@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<861x2dbcwv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.23.03.26.31.605027@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86u0f894w3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:54:24 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
>>> The string formatting is two orders of magnitude faster than the
>>> concatenation. The speed difference becomes even more obvious when you
>>> increase the number of strings being concatenated:
>> The test isn't right - the addition test case includes the time to
>> convert the number into a char, including taking a modulo.
> I wondered if anyone would pick up on that :-)
> You are correct, however that only adds a constant amount of time to
> the time it takes for each concatenation. That's why I talked about order
> of magnitude differences. If you look at the vast increase in time taken
> for concatenation when going from 10**5 to 10**6 iterations, that cannot
> be blamed on the char conversion.

True. string addition is O(n^2); the conversion time is O(n). But
fair's fair.

> At least, that's what it looks like to me -- I'm perplexed by the *vast*
> increase in speed in your version, far more than I would have predicted
> from pulling out the char conversion. I can think of three
> possibilities:

Everything got faster, so it wasn't just pulling the chr conversion.

> (1) Your PC is *hugely* faster than mine;

It's a 3Ghz P4.

> (2) Your value of x is a lot smaller than I was using (you don't actually
> say what x you use); or

It's still in the buffer, and I copied it from your timings:

>>> x = 100000

> (3) You are using a version and/or implementation of Python that has a
> different underlying implementation of string concatenation.

I'm runing Python 2.4.1 built with GCC 3.4.2.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 02:24:13 2005
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:24:13 +0800
Subject: p2exe using wine/cxoffice
In-Reply-To: <200509151243.53106.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
References: <mailman.327.1126647088.509.python-list@python.org>	<rcaii1h463ojaita1t4hbin0g3filgfoen@4ax.com>
	<200509151243.53106.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <djn6pa$dc5$2@sea.gmane.org>

James Stroud wrote:

> "better". The only reason I want this functionality is to make my software
> available to windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they are
> people too. That's what I always say.

Actually, I think it's many unix/linux users who are ignorant of just
how nice, stable and productive Windows can be as a desktop environment.

... and I really mean that.  ;-).



Ever since Win2K got rid of the constant blue screens, the reasons for
switching over to Linux have grown less and less urgent.

The 'Nix desktop environments are growing visibly more mature with each
passing year, but device support in Linux is still decidedly inferior and
it still takes far too much time to do some things you take for granted
under Windoze.

I'm experienced enough with Linux that I can customize a distribution
like Slackware to a fair extent, but for desktop work, I stay in Windows
almost exclusively.

I have this bunch of Linux zealots in a mailing list to thank for
encouraging me to realize how good Windows can be.



From cgian31 at katamail.com  Thu Oct 20 14:59:04 2005
From: cgian31 at katamail.com (cgian31)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 11:59:04 -0700
Subject: bypassing web forms hardcoding login and password
Message-ID: <1129834744.777983.319170@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I need to hide the complexity from users to access an information
webpage, which is normally accessible after filling in a web
form with the correct data.

The address of the information webpage is like
https://external.address.com/info.asp?<numeric code>
where <numeric code> is a number generated by the server.

This number (always different) is generated by the server only when you
open the first web page in your browser, fill in the right values in 2
fields (user, password) and click Login.

Any advices?



From gdamjan at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 17:35:19 2005
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:35:19 +0100
Subject: cx_Oracle, is anything selected?
Message-ID: <dk6679$h5c$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Is there a way to see if the SELECT in cx_Oracle didn't return anything?
I want to optimize the situation when the number of selected rows is zero.
Is select count(*) the only option, seems inefficient?

-- 
damjan


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 11:40:34 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:40:34 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk> <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.15.40.32.740000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:50:12 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> Tim Tyler wrote:
> <snip>
>>>Only if your photos are so obscure and confusing that they need captions.
>>>
>>>"Here's Johnny with the dog. Here is Johnny with the dog again. This one
>>>is Johnny on his own. Here is the dog. Oh look, it is Johnny with the dog
>>>again -- that's the dog on the left, in case it isn't clear. Just for a
>>>change, this is Johnny wearing a hat. It is blue with a feather in it,
>>>in case you couldn't tell from, oh I don't know, looking at the actual
>>>picture."
>> 
>> 
>> What have you got against captions?
>> 
>> Giving photos captions is a *very* common practice.
> 
> Perhaps he has a search engine that can find blue hats in an image and 
> recognize people?

Yes. It is called "eyes". I look at the image, and miracle upon miracles,
I recognise Johnny wearing a hat.

Then, if I have any need to save that image rather than trash it, I name
it and file it in a directory appropriately, so that I can instantly find
it later without needing to call up a search engine.

Honestly, anyone would think that photos and photo albums never existed
before Google. Why force one particular bad technological solution on
everyone for the sake of something which many people don't even perceive
as a problem?



-- 
Steven.



From toufeeqh at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 01:34:23 2005
From: toufeeqh at gmail.com (Toufeeq Hussain)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:04:23 +0530
Subject: Help needed in OOP-Python
Message-ID: <c293dd340510042234s74a4db47x85bdd5658a1ad803@mail.gmail.com>

Hello gurus,

Python n00b here trying to learn some OOP-Python.Here's my problem.

I have 3 modules which have class declarations in them and which implement
multiple inheritance.

Module1
--------
class OptionClass:
def __init__ (self,name,ORSpecNumber,AltToItselfStart,AltToItselfEnd) :
self.Name = name
self.ORSpecNumber = ORSpecNumber
self.AltToItselfStart = AltToItselfStart
self.AltToItselfEnd = AltToItselfEnd
class Warning:
def __init__(self,Warn_number,Warn_name,Warn_type,Warn_text) :
self.Warn_name = Warn_name
self.Warn_number = Warn_number
self.Warn_type = Warn_type
self.Warn_text = Warn_text
def Fire(self) :
common_subs.write_to_out_file('FOO_OUT',self.Warn_text)

class characterestic:
def __init__(self,char_name,char_type,char_value) :
self.Char_name = char_name
self.Char_type = char_type
self.Char_value = char_value

In Module2 I have a class which derives from OptionClass of Module1.

Module2
------------
import Module1

class Option1(Module1.OptionClass):
def __init__(self) :
Module1.OptionClass.__init__('Blah Blah','OR0001','0000','0000')
option_char = Module1.characterestic
('strOperationalWeightsTemplate','int',1000)

Module3 has a Class which Derives from the Class defined in Module2.

Module3
------------
import Module1
import Module2

class Option1_Rule1(declaration.Option1):
def __init__(self) :
Module2.Option1.__init__(self)
Option1_warning = Module1.Warning(1,'This is a warning
name','Compatibility','Blah Blah,warning text which gets printed')
def Option1_constraint(self):
if isinstance(self,Module2.Option1):
print 'condition satisfied'
self.FOO_warning.Fire()
else :
pass

Finally I have a simple script which does the instantiation of the Class
defined in Module3.

Script
-----
import Module3

Test_Case = Module3.Option1_Rule1()
Test_Case.Option1_constraint()

Problem is when I run the above script it throws out the following error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "E:\PyPBM\PyPBM\test_case.py", line 7, in ?
TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()
File "E:\PyPBM\PyPBM\constraint.py", line 13, in __init__
declaration.Option1.__init__(self)
TypeError: __init__() takes no arguments (1 given)

in the above errors:
test_case is the above script.
constraint => Module3
declaration => Module2
superclass => Module1

Help required.

Thanks,
Toufeeq
--
Get Firefox:http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
The fastest, safest and best Browser !!
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From theller at python.net  Thu Oct  6 10:55:56 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:55:56 +0200
Subject: Absolultely confused...
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7jcqbu2h.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.1616.1128610196.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <irwaae4j.fsf@python.net>

Jeremy Moles <jeremy at emperorlinux.com> writes:

> Thanks for the reply. :)
>
> I may be missing something critical here, but I don't exactly grok what
> you're saying; how is it even possible to have two instances of
> PyType_vector3d? It is (like all the examples show and all the extension
> modules I've done in the past) a static structure declared and assigned
> to all at once, only once.
>
> Am I misunderstanding the point? :)
>
> /me ducks
>
> On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 16:26 +0200, Thomas Heller wrote:
>> Jeremy Moles <jeremy at emperorlinux.com> writes:
>> 
>> > So, here is my relevant code:
>> >
>> > 	PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)
>> >
>> > And here ismy error message:
>> >
>> > 	argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d
>> >

The only reason that I can think of for this error message is that the
type of the argument is something that has a repr of
'pylf.core.vector3d', but the type object is not the same as your
'PyType_vector3d' pointer.  As I said, use a source debugger or some
other way to find out, or use a debug build of Python and step through
the PyArg_ParseTuple code to find out why the call fails.

Thomas


From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 03:23:23 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:23:23 -0700
Subject: pickle
In-Reply-To: <1130223861.28336.6.camel@blackwidow>
References: <mailman.2505.1130223334.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130223861.28336.6.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <1d987df30510250023u5d679c9co4cd6f960df6edf1b@mail.gmail.com>

what does the following code mean?

y = pickle.load(file("cnumber.pickle", "r"))

also, I can not understand "f" in pickle.dump(x, f)

On 10/25/05, marduk <usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-10-24 at 23:55 -0700, Shi Mu wrote:
> > I got a sample code and tested it but really can not understand the
> > use of pickle and dump:
> >
> > >>> import pickle
> > >>> f = open("try.txt", "w")
> > >>> pickle.dump(3.14, f)
> > >>> pickle.dump([1,2,3,4], f)
> > >>> f.close()
>
> The pickle module "serializes" python objects.  You can "dump" a python
> object that can later be loaded:
>
> >>> x = complex(2,3.5)
> >>> f = open("cnumber.pickle", "w")
> >>> import pickle
> >>> pickle.dump(x, f)
> >>> f.close()
> >>> y = pickle.load(file("cnumber.pickle", "r"))
> >>> y
> (2+3.5j)
>
>
>


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 21:16:01 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 01:16:01 -0000
Subject: check html file size
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11k6aahfhqcgacc@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-05, Xah Lee <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:

> would anyone like to translate the following perl script to
> Python or Scheme (scsh)?

Sure. It'll cost you $110/hour with a 2-hour minimum.  Where do
I send the invoice?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'll take ROAST BEEF
                                  at               if you're out of LAMB!!
                               visi.com            


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct  8 19:39:27 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 23:39:27 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
Message-ID: <Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Roedy Green wrote:
> 
>> Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.
> 
> WHat the hell has that got to do with HTML email?

The photo doesn't have to be included (as in attached)? with the email?

> Sending photos
> is an example of what attachments are for.

Yeah, yeah, and 640K is enough for everybody. Same song, different tune.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 24 11:42:51 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:42:51 -0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86y84k95c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4vl5j.1sg46l1irzgfmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130154629.382286.33090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4xfpb.1oh4ntjwcvubfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87acgyly4k.fsf@ieee.org>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> forwards a lot to Python 3.0!-).  But -- the "dream" solution would be
> to work closely with customers from the start, XP-style, so features go
> into the code in descending order of urgence and importance and it's
> hardly ever necessary to remove them.

We do that often with two of our customers here.  After the first changes,
they asked for more.  And them some other and when it finally ended, the
project was like we had suggested, but instead of doing this directly, the
client wanted to waste more money... :-(  Even if we earnt more money, I'd
rather have the first proposal accepted instead of wasting time working on
what they called "essential features". 

> But if I had do nominate ONE use case for "making code smaller" it would
> be: "Once, And Only Once" (aka "Don't Repeat Yourself").  Scan your code
> ceaselessly mercilessly looking for duplications and refactor just as
> mercilessly when you find them, "abstracting the up" into functions,
> base classes, etc...

And I'd second that.  Code can be drastically reduced this way and even
better: it can be made more generic, more useful and robustness is improved. 

-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 12:13:10 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:13:10 +0300
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
Message-ID: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>


Hello,

my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter how long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is nothing in log-files that can points the problem.
My question is how it possible to find out where is the problem in the code? Thanks for any help.

Python 2.2.3
FreeBSD

-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Thu Oct  6 16:57:44 2005
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Barbier de Reuille)
Date: 06 Oct 2005 20:57:44 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434545b7$0$662$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<86mzlmpo5r.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <43458fc7$0$660$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Dans l'article <86mzlmpo5r.fsf at bhuda.mired.org>, Mike Meyer a ?crit :
> Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> writes:
>> Mike Meyer a ?crit :
>>> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>>> 
>>>>Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Declarations also allow easier writable closures. Since the declaration
>>>>happens at a certain scope, the run time can easily find the correct
>>>>scope when a variable is rebound.
>>> If it happens at runtime, then you can do it without declarations:
>>> they're gone by then. Come to think of it, most functional languages -
>>> which are the languages that make the heaviest use of closures - don't
>>> require variable declarations.
>> Well, can you give a single example of such language ? Because all the
>> functionnal language I know but one do need variable declaration : lisp,
>> scheme, ocaml, haskell do need variable declaration ! Erlang do not ...
> 
> Scheme and lisp don't need variable declerations. Last time I looked,
> Schemd didn't even *allow* variable declerations.

When you want local variable in lisp you do :

(let ((a 3)) (+ a 1))

For global variable you may do:

(defparameter *a* 4)

or:

(defvar *a* 4)

However, either way, variable assignment is done via :

(setf *a* 5)
(setf a 10)

This is what I call variable declaration as you have different way
to declare global variables and to assign them ... So the
two operations are well defined and different. And here there is a
difference between static language and declarative ones ... Lisp is a
dynamic language that needs variable declarations.

> 
>>> Only in a few cases. Type inferencing is a well-understood
>>> technology, and will produce code as efficient as a statically type
>>> language in most cases.
>> Type inferencing only works for statically typed languages AFAIK ! In a
>> dynamically typed languages, typing a variable is simply impossible as
>> any function may return a value of any type !
> 
> I think we're using different definitions of statically typed
> here. A language that is statically typed doesn't *need* type
> inferencing - the types are all declared! Type determines the thypes
> by inferenceing them from an examination of the program. So, for
> instance, it can determine that this function:

Well, indeed ... statically typed means only one thing : each *variable*
has a *static* type, i.e. a type determined at compile time. Once again,
OCaml and Haskell *are* statically typed but as they have type inference
you don't *need* to explicitely type your functions / variables. However
you *may* if you want ...

> 
> def foo():
>     return 1
> 
> Won't ever return anything but an integer.
> 
>>>>I think language matters shouldn't be setlled by personal preferences.
>>> I have to agree with that. For whether or not a feature should be
>>> included, there should either be a solid reason dealing with the
>>> functionality of the language - meaning you should have a set of use
>>> cases showing what a feature enables in the language that couldn't be
>>> done at all, or could only be done clumsily, without the feature.
>> Wrong argument ... with that kind of things, you would just stick with
>> plain Turing machine ... every single computation can be done with it !
> 
> "Computation" is is not the same thing as "Functionality". If you
> think otherwise, show me how to declare an object with a Turing
> machine.

Well, that was "bad spirit" from me ;) My argument here wasn't serious
in any mean ...

> 
> And there's also the issue of "clumsily". Turing machines are clumsy
> to program in.
> 
> 
>>> Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
>>> effect the programing process. And we have conflicting claims about
>>> whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
>>> solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
>>> personal preferences.
>> Well, so why not *allow* for variable declaration ? Languages like Perl
>> does that successfully ... you don't like : you don't do ! you like :
>> you do ! A simple option at the beginning of the file tell the compilor
>> if variable declaration is mandatory or not !
> 
> Perl is a red herring. Unless it's changed radically since I last
> looked, undeclared variables in Perl have dynamic scope, not lexical
> scope. While dynamically scoped variables are a powerful feature, and
> there have been proposals to add them to Python, having them be the
> default is just *wrong*. If I were writing in Perl, I'd want
> everything declared just to avoid that. Of course, if Python behaved
> that way, I'd do what I did with Perl, and change languages.

I never said to adopt the whole Perl variable semantic. I just pointed
what I think is a good idea in Perl and that help (IMHO) precising what
I intended ...

> 
>>> Antoon, at a guess I'd say that Python is the first time you've
>>> encountered a dynamnic language. Being "horrified" at not having
>>> variable declarations, which is a standard feature of such languages
>>> dating back to the 1950s, is one such indication.
>> Dynamic language and variable declaration are non-related issues ! You
>> can have statically-typed language without variable declaration (i.e.
>> BASIC) and dynamically-typed language with (i.e. Lisp) ! Please, when
>> you says something about languages, at least give 1 name of language
>> asserting what you're saying !
> 
> Declerations and typing are *also* non-related issues. See Perl. Also
> see the subject line.

That was just my point ...

> 
>>> Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
>>> paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
>>> compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
>>> level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
>>> experienced with something like Pascal would consider
>>> essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.
>> Well, could you be more specific once more ? I can't that many paradigm
>> only available on dynamically typed languages ... beside duck-typing
>> (which is basically a synonym for dynamically-typed)
> 
> I said "dynamic languages", *not* "dynamically typed languages". They
> aren't the same thing. Dynamic languages let you create new functions,
> variables and attributes at run time. Python lets you delete them as
> well.  This means that simle declarations can't tell you whether or
> not a variable will exist at runtime, because it may have been added
> at run time.

Ok, I misunderstood ... however, can you still point some *usefull*
paradigm available to dynamic languages that you cannot use with static
ones ? As there are so many, it shouldn't be hard for you to show us
some !

> 
>>> Given these kinds of differences, prior experience is *not* a valid
>>> reason for thinking that some difference must be wrong. Until you have
>>> experience with the language in question, you can't really decide that
>>> some feature being missing is intolerable. You're in the same position
>>> as the guy who told me that a language without a goto would be
>>> unusable based on his experience with old BASIC, FORTRAN IV and
>>> assembler.
>> After more than two years of Python programming, I still fill the need
>> for variable declarations. It would remove tons of bugs for little works
>> and would also clarify the scope of any single variable.
> 
> Maybe you're still writing code for a language with declerations? I
> never felt that need. Then again, I came to Python from a language
> that didn't require declerations: Scheme.
> 
>>> Pick one of the many languages that don't require declarations. Try
>>> writing a code in them, and see how much of a problem it really is in
>>> practice, rather than trying to predict that without any
>>> information. Be warned that there are *lots* of variations on how
>>> undeclared variables are treated when referenced. Python raises
>>> exceptions. Rexx gives them their print name as a value. Other
>>> languages do other things.
>> Well, IMO, worst case is silently give a default value, like PHP (or
>> apparently Rexx) does ... this can hide bugs for month if a single
>> test-case is missing !
>>
>> Well, in the end, I would really like an *option* at the beginning of a
>> module file requiring variable declaration for the module. It would
>> satisfy both the ones who want and the ones who don't want that ...
> 
> Nope. It would just change the argument from "Python should have ..."
> to "You should always use ..." or "Module foo should use ...".
> 
>    <mike


-- 
BOFH excuse #413:

Cow-tippers tipped a cow onto the server.


From pydecker at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 08:05:17 2005
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:05:17 -0400
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
Message-ID: <ca55a9900510040505i7a9db6ady22cdd5e632992d3a@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/05, spiffo <noone at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am a corporate developer, working for a single company. Got a new project
> coming up and wondering if I should stay with Python for this new, fairly
> large project, are jump back on the 'safe' M$ bandwagon using a dot net
> language? Cross platform is NOT an issue, but COMPLETE control/compatability
> with MsSql Server (current and future versions) certainly is.
>
> Quick History
>
> Started out 10+ yrs ago using FoxPro, upgrading as Fox did, was a good
> system but never really loved it due to many factors I won't get into now.
>
> Did alot of work in Delphi, once version 5 came out... really loved it for
> awhile. Began using MS SQL server as database.
>
> Had a HUGE re-write of an old dos-based database system to do, did alot of
> work on it in Delphi 7, but really began to have issues with Delphi, even
> tho alot of it is fantastic.

Hey, you might want to take a look at Dabo <http://dabodev.com>. It
was written by a couple of ex-Fox guys, and is a complete 3-tier app
framework. They support several databases on the backend, and have
announced that they are looking for someone to help them add MS-SQL to
that list.

--

# p.d.


From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 16:54:54 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 13:54:54 -0700
Subject: Tricky import question.
In-Reply-To: <435e8530.945320799@news.oz.net>
References: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<435e8530.945320799@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1130273694.368284.128650@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

repr() is a new one on me I am afraid, and I have yet to achieve any
decent competance with global and local lists.

As you probaly noticed earlier, I managed to bungle my way through this
time.  However, I will log this thread away for when I next get stuck
with a bindings.

Thank you Bengt  :-)



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Oct 14 15:25:55 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:25:55 -0700
Subject: Moving to Win XP as a Python developer
In-Reply-To: <u0fkorld.fsf@python.net>
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434fdd3b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<u0fkorld.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <20051014192555.GA12926@ActiveState.com>

[Thomas Heller wrote]
> I have an elisp function bound to a key in XEmacs that starts cmd in the
> directory where the current buffer is.  IMO this is very convenient.  To
> access explorer from that command prompt (in the rare cases that I need
> it) I use 'start .'.

I kind of have the same thing with Dave's Quick Search Deskbar
(http://www.dqsd.net/) and my little "go" script
(http://trentm.com/projects/go/). The keystrokes to open a cmd.exe shell
in my "src" folder is down to:

    <Windows+S>    # to focus in the Quick Search Deskbar textbox
    go src<Enter>

or to open Explorer in that dir:

    go -o src<Enter> 

or in another "tagged" dir:

    go ~           # open in my home dir

DQSD is a fantastic tool for speeding up launching other things, too:
mainly Google searches.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com


From raims at dot.com  Thu Oct 20 12:27:22 2005
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:27:22 +0200
Subject: How to retrieve the filename of a module
References: <1129824268.735371.230910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlfhba.bq5.raims@voodoo.myself>

Il 2005-10-20, mku <martin.kuner at thomson.net> ha scritto:
> Hi,
>
> there?s a function inside a module. How can these function retrieve
> the path+name   of his module ? (The path is most important).
> That should also work if the module is part of a package.


rhymes at voodoo:~ $ cat > test.py
print __file__
import os
print os.path.abspath(__file__)

rhymes at voodoo:~ $ python test.py
test.py
/home/rhymes/test.py

Bye



-- 
Lawrence
http://www.oluyede.org/blog


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 17 20:40:29 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:40:29 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <13h8l1p0i29vie16r31fbbblfl65iudrgd@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:17:03 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>
>Yup. When NS was the 800 lb gorilla on they acted like MS,

I think you would need to give some examples. They gave away a free
browser.  What other evil thing did they do?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From arotem at juniper.net  Sun Oct 16 12:48:39 2005
From: arotem at juniper.net (arotem)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 09:48:39 -0700
Subject: TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
	instance as first argument (got test instance instead)
Message-ID: <1129481319.436107.16950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am trying to call an unbound method (PrintInput) with the object
instance as the first argument but getting the following error:
"TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
instance as first argument (got test instance instead)"

Below is the sample code (test) for this purpose (two files).

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance, Anat


Sample Code:

File 1 - input_file.py:

#!/usr/bin/env python
from test import *

CMD = (test.PrintInput, float(2))

File 2 - test.py:

from input_file import *

class test:
    def __init__(self):
        _test = 2
    def PrintInput(self, input):
        print "Input is = %s"%(input)

if __name__== "__main__":
    print "Unit testing"
    inst = test()
    print CMD
    cmd = CMD[0]
    param = CMD[1:]
    
    cmd(inst,param)        # this is the problematic line



From cce at clarkevans.com  Tue Oct 25 14:15:02 2005
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:15:02 -0400
Subject: feature request / max size limit on StringIO
Message-ID: <20051025181502.GA48563@prometheusresearch.com>

Hello.  I've not been able to use cStringIO since I have the need to
ensure that the memory buffers created are bounded within a resonable
limit set by specifications.  No, this code does not properly belong
in my application as the modules that use "files" should not have
to care about any resource limitations that may be imposed.

class LimitedBuffer(StringIO):
    def __init__(self, buffer = None, maxsize = 5 * 1000 * 1000):
        StringIO.__init__(self,buffer)
        self.cursize = 0
        self.maxsize = maxsize
    def write(self,str):
        self.cursize += len(str)
        if self.cursize > self.maxsize:
            raise IOError("allocated buffer space exceeded")
        return StringIO.write(self,str)

Kind Regards,

Clark Evans


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 15 02:59:43 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:59:43 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> writes:
>>>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>>>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
>> They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are evil, not
>> because they have a large market share.
> no, they got their by clever marketing and generally having a product that 
> was easier to use for the average user than anything the competition made 
> and a lot more powerful than other products created for their main target 
> market.

What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.

MS didn't start chanting the "Ease of Use" Mantra into it after Apple
did - which happened long after MS had a sufficient stranglehold on
the industry to force anti-competitive contracts down the throats of
their "partners". Ease of use is something that Apple is much better
at than MS, which is why Apple is dominating the market, right?

> Prices would be far far higher than they are today

I disagree. Before Gates decided to sell BASIC, software was very
cheap.  It started getting cheap again in the late 80s. Now that cheap
software is threatening MS, they're doing their best to shut down all
the sources of quality cheap software, with there usual disregard for
truth, legality, ethics or the good of either the customer or their
business partners.

> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
> mainframe terminals.

Oh, horseshit. You clearly weren't paying attention to what the rest
of the microcomputer industry was doing while Gates was selling IBM
non-existent software. While IBM was introducing 16-bit processors and
DOS was doing a flat file system, Tandy was selliig systems - for a
fraction of the price of any MS-DOS based system - that were
multitasking, multiuser, had an optional windowing system that came
with a complete (for the time) office suite. Of course, that was while
Tandy still thought they could sell computers by selling better
computers than you could get running MS software. But it was already
to late for that. MS single-handedly set the industry back 20 years.

> IBM's prediction that there would be 5 computers (not counting game 
> computers like the Comodores and Spectrums) by 2000 would likely have come 
> true. 

I see. You're a troll.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Tue Oct  4 17:44:45 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:44:45 +0200
Subject: Mantain IDE colors and paste them in an HTML page
Message-ID: <eJC0f.12418$133.8399@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Hi all. I need to insert a Python source in an HTML page mantaining to 
coloration gives by the IDE.
I tried the export function of scite but it does not generate a proper HTML 
code that permit me to copy and paste it into another HTML page.
Does anyone got any suggestion?

Regards




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct  3 20:06:12 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:06:12 -0500
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
In-Reply-To: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051004000612.GA9424@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 02:34:40PM -0700, leo wrote:
> I come from a java background, where Exceptions are a big Avoid Me, but
> are the performance implications the same in Python? We're expecting a
> big load on our app (100,000 users/hour) , so we'd like to be as tuned
> as possible.

I don't know what you do for each user, but here's a data point:  My 1.8GHz
Sempron (firmly in the "budget" category) uses a fairly unoptimized piece of
software called aether[1] to serve my blog and a few other things.  It uses
Apache and good old fashioned cgi-bin one-process-per-request to serve up most
pages.  It parses a substantial amount of Python code each time with execfile
(not using byte-compiled files).  It still does this in 87ms on average (albeit
for a simple page), or about 41k requests per hour.

By simply buying a faster CPU, or by avoiding execfile, or by using a
higher-performance technology than CGI, or with judicious use of caching, I'm
sure I could reach 100,000 requests per hour, and by using several of the
techniques together I might be able to reach 400k requests per hour.  Probably
it would be after these fairly obvious, high-level optimization ideas were
exhausted that I would look at the code at a microscopic level for optimization
ideas.

But because my website is stuck on the slow end of a DSL line, there's not much
point to any of this.

Jeff
[1] http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/aether (not my site)
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From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Wed Oct 12 02:29:40 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?UTF-8?B?TGFzc2UgVsOlZ3PDpnRoZXIgS2FybHNlbg==?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:29:40 +0200
Subject: bizarro world (was Re: Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
	(reprise))
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129071507.829655.252340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<dii8hv$rsp$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1935.1129097121.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <diiagl$vfb$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Bryan wrote:
> mr. xah... would you be willing to give a lecture at pycon 2006?  i'm 
> sure you would draw a huge crowd and a lot of people would like to meet 
> you in person...
> 
> thanks.
> 

I think that would be a highly un-pythonesque crowd. Python isn't much 
in the sense of limitations, but that crowd probably needs to be limited 
in one way or another, like "only 2 rotten fruits per person" or similar.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From aisaac0 at verizon.net  Thu Oct 13 14:25:12 2005
From: aisaac0 at verizon.net (David Isaac)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:25:12 GMT
Subject: extract PDF pages
Message-ID: <cEx3f.24108$wm3.2383@trnddc01>

While pdftk is awesome
http://www.accesspdf.com/pdftk/
I am looking for a Python solution.
Just for PDF page extraction.
Any hope?

Thanks,
Alan Isaac




From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 22 17:54:44 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:54:44 -0400
Subject: Question about inheritance...
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86slut9pzv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"KraftDiner" <bobrien18 at yahoo.com> writes:

> I have a base class called Shape
> And then classes like Circle, Square, Triangle etc, that inherit from
> Shape:
>
> My quesiton is can a method of the Shape class call a method in Circle,
> or Square etc...?

Yup:

>>> class Shape(object):
...  def commented_draw(self):
...   print "Drawing", self.__class__.__name__
...   self.draw()
... 
>>> class Circle(Shape):
...  def draw(self):
...   print "Drawing a Circle"
... 
>>> c = Circle()
>>> c.commented_draw()
Drawing Circle
Drawing a Circle
>>> 

Or maybe you meant invoking them directly, which a method in Shape
would do by calling Circle.draw(self). The latter is ugly - you should
use self.draw() to invoke the draw routine that's correct for self.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Thu Oct 20 09:46:51 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:46:51 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>
	<dj56ba$2oe$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<d8uel1ldn28q45ka1mrb2ep26cvmmuv6pq@4ax.com>
	<uNM5f.153113$RW.59193@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.20.13.46.50.253609@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:17:14 +0000, axel wrote:

> Employees have *no* obligations towards the shareholders of a company.
> They are not employed or paid by the shareholders, they are employed
> by the company itself which is a separate legal entity.
> 
> It is a different matter for the board of directors of a company.

The board of directors are also employees of the company. That's why the
company can fire them.


-- 
Steven.



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:31:06 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:31:06 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Antoon,
   I just saw that to.  I updated the code like so...

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
	// this will store the result in a Python object
  	PyObject *finalResult;

  	// get arguments from Python
  	char *result = 0;
  	char *in= 0;
      	char *aString = 0;
  	char *bString = 0;
  	MY_NUM *a = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1);  //
the array will be 20 long
  	MY_NUM *b = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1); //
the array will be 20 long
  	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
  	if (!ok) return 0;

  	// do work to get a and b
  	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a MY_NUM * (a pointer
to a MY_NUM array)
  	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
  	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));

  	// make function call, which returns a char *
  	result = doStuff(in, a, b);

  	// save result in Python string
  	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);

  	// free memory
  	PyMem_Free(a);
  	PyMem_Free(b);
	free(aString);
 	free(bString);
	free(result);

  	// return the result as a Python string
  	return finalResult;
  }

..as you can see, i malloc'ed memory, and free'd the memory.  However,
I still have python crashing (after only 3 successful calls to
doStuff).  And yes, doStuff is a plain C function...nothing related to
Python.


Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-12, Java and Swing schreef <codecraig at gmail.com>:
> > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> > 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> > 	PyObject *finalResult;
> >
> > 	// get arguments from Python
> > 	char *result = 0;
> > 	char *in= 0;
> >     	char *aString = 0;
> > 	char *bString = 0;
> > 	MY_NUM *a;
> > 	MY_NUM *b;
> > 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> > 	if (!ok) return 0;
> >
> > 	// do work to get a and b
> > 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> > 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> > 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
> >
> > 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> > 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
> >
> > 	// save result in Python string
> > 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
> >
> > 	// free memory
> > 	PyMem_Free(result);
> > 	PyMem_Free(a);
> > 	PyMem_Free(b);
> >
> > 	// return the result as a Python string
> > 	return finalResult;
> > }
> >
> > ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> > call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> > problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> > actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> > problem
> > so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
> >
> > Any ideas?  Thanks!
>
> Well assuming your doStuff is a C function that knows nothing of python.
> it might be the PyMem_Free(result).
> http://docs.python.org/api/memoryInterface.html says the following:
>
> void PyMem_Free(void *p)
>     Frees the memory block pointed to by p, which must have been
>     returned by a previous call to PyMem_Malloc() or PyMem_Realloc().
>     Otherwise, or if PyMem_Free(p) has been called before, undefined
>     behavior occurs. If p is NULL, no operation is performed.
>
> But your result wasn't allocated by a PyMem_Malloc, it was returned
> to you by a C function.
> 
> -- 
> Antoon Pardon



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 02:57:39 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:57:39 +0100
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org><3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <divi11$e79$1@sea.gmane.org>

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
[...]
[Claudio]
>>>I don't fully understand your attitude here. The Web Browser interface
> 
> has
> 
>>>all I can imagine is required for a GUI, so what is missing when you
>>>consider, that you can generate custom images on the fly on the server
> 
> and
> 
>>>let the user shape the page without requesting CPU power from the server
>>>using JavaScript.
>>
>>In this case then, I'm afraid the failure is in your imagination :-)
> 
> 
> Any useful hints towards enlightenment except criticism?
> 
Perhpas the mistake I made was bearing in mind the title of the thread, 
and the fact that this is a Python newsgroup.
> 
>>>I don't even name here the not really beeing itegral part of Internet
>>>Browsers JavaApplets and any other kind of plugin stuff.
>>>The only issue I can see with this approach is the speed of responding
> 
> to
> 
>>>user interactions, but for really optimize this one needs a compiled
>>>language anyway.
>>>What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser
> 
> as a
> 
>>>GUI?
>>>Do I miss here something?
>>>
>>
>>While you are correct in saying (I paraphrase) that HTML interfaces
>>nowadays can offer a rich graphical interface, it can be quite difficult
>>to manage state maintenance between the two components (web server, web
>>client) in the system.
> 
> 
> The cause of confusion here is, that HTML interfaces don't necessary need a
> web server and HTTP to work. I mean, that Internet Browsers
> have an API which allow access to them directly, so they can be used without
> a server as a kind of GUI library supporting widgets programmed
> in HTML and JavaScript  (I haven't used them yet in this form, but I think
> it should be no problem - right or not?).
> 
You are perfectly correct that interfaces can be programmed in the 
browser. As has already been said, with the adoption of standards like 
CSS2, it's even possible to make such stuff run across multiple browser 
platforms (at the moment, though, just try writing an interface that 
makes table rows appear and disappear in a cross-browser fashion: you'll 
find the stylesheet techniques you need to use for Mozilla and IE are 
very different). But this doesn't help you at all if you are trying to 
interface to Python logic.
> 
>>A "proper" GUI runs all functionality inside a single process, and
>>allows much easier control over complex interactions, creation of
>>dynamic dialogues, and so on.
> 
> Complex and dynamic is in my eyes possible with HTML and JavaScript, so I
> still don't see where is a problem with this approach. I have programmed
> already a HTML and JavaScript driven server platform and know about (the
> solvable) problems with the back-button and sessions (it is sure not the
> easiest way of programming a GUI).
> The only disadvantage of not using plugins or Java is, that real time
> interactions are not possible, but this is in my eyes usually not the
> requirement for a standard kind of GUI with no gaming, no Virtual Reality
> and no timing of user response down to milliseconds (but consider, that with
> a good speed of connection it is even possible to play blitz chess over the
> Internet).
> 
So, back to the subject: with an HTML/Javascript interface, how do you 
propose to bolt Python logic into the same process? Or do you admit that 
the application that interacts with such an interface either has to be 
all JavaScript or in a separate process?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 29 03:48:39 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 07:48:39 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>
	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:03:17 -0700, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>   ...
>> Except if you can't read the file into memory because it's to large,
>> there's a pretty good chance you won't be able to mmap it either.  To
>> deal with huge files, the only option is to read the file in in
>> chunks, count the occurences in each chunk, and then do some fiddling
>> to deal with the pattern landing on a boundary.
>
>That's the kind of things generators are for...:
>
>def byblocks(f, blocksize, overlap):
>    block = f.read(blocksize)
>    yield block
>    while block:
>        block = block[-overlap:] + f.read(blocksize-overlap)
>        if block: yield block
>
>Now, to look for a substring of length N in an open binary file f:
>
>f = open(whatever, 'b')
>count = 0
>for block in byblocks(f, 1024*1024, len(subst)-1):
>    count += block.count(subst)
>f.close()
>
>not much "fiddling" needed, as you can see, and what little "fiddling"
>is needed is entirely encompassed by the generator...
>
Do I get a job at google if I find something wrong with the above? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct  4 05:20:43 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:20:43 +0200
Subject: Python Debug Build
In-Reply-To: <dht4t0$29c$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <20051003210217.88812.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<dht4t0$29c$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4342496B.9070607@ghaering.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> "Celine & Dave" wrote:
> 
> 
>>What happens if I build Python with debug option
>>(--with-pydebug)? Do I see any changes in my program
>>output? What is --with-pydebug good for?
> 
> 
> from the README:
> 
> --with-pydebug:  Enable additional debugging code to help track down
>         memory management problems.  This allows printing a list of all
>         live objects when the interpreter terminates.

And that's why it's very useful for when developing Python extension 
modules. Not only does it help find reference count problems, 
--with-pydebug on, Python sometimes also complains earlier if you do 
"stupid" things in the C code. Or gives a helpful error message before 
crashing ;-)

-- Gerhard



From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct  7 09:42:12 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:42:12 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <di5r2o$u1h$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<bvmck1hab4go0atva6q9csnr3dp6eg7qdq@4ax.com>
	<di5r2o$u1h$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cduck15hlejqbt2ga15765ec72uhb08ive@4ax.com>


[Richie]
> Your previous post to this thread was chock-full of split nominatives: "The
> Hollywood voice", "the specific regional accent", "the English-speaking
> world", "the original French".  And you call yourself a grammarian.

[Steve]
> I am presuming this post was meant to be a joke?

It was.

> No smileys, though, so you force us to make up our own minds.

Yes.  8-)

> Or is "the green tomato" also unacceptable?

It ought to be considered unacceptable by people who think that "to
correctly apply" is unacceptable, which is the point that Stephen was
making:

> *Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the
> grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are
> impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid
> them in English.

Split nominatives like "the green tomato" are also impossible in Latin, but
no-one seems to object to their use in English.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From eight02645999 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 21:34:30 2005
From: eight02645999 at yahoo.com (eight02645999 at yahoo.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 18:34:30 -0700
Subject: where to get modules for python
Message-ID: <1129080870.418774.76390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

hi
i am new to python and was wondering where can i find modules for
python?
Something very much like what CPAN has for Perl.
I am searching for SSL/SSH modules for use in Python. 
thanks



From Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net  Tue Oct 25 11:31:55 2005
From: Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net (Dennis Benzinger)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:31:55 +0200
Subject: Math markup in code documentation?
In-Reply-To: <1130251116.027733.123750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130251116.027733.123750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e4fe3$1@news.uni-ulm.de>

schwehr at gmail.com schrieb:
> Done any one have a way (and examples) of how to do math markups in the
> docstrings of function and class definitions such that the equations
> get typeset in the generated html documentation?  I'll take any markup
> system that'll do the job... MathML or LaTeX possible?
> [...]

Try Doxygen: http://www.doxygen.org

Examples of formulas are here: 
http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/formulas.html

Doxygen has the advantage that you can use it for a variety of 
programming languages.

Bye,
Dennis


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Oct 20 03:10:49 2005
From: fumanchu at amor.org (fumanchu)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 00:10:49 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129792249.206990.239680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

grunar at gmail.com wrote:
> These objects (such as sqlstring.Select), represent
> complex SQL Statements, but as Python objects. The benefit is that you
> can, at run-time, "build" the statement pythonically, without
> getting bogged down in String Manipulation. The theory is that once in
> use, things that were complex (string magic) become simpler, and allow
> the program to worry about higher-level issues.
> ...
> Some of this stuff has been around for a while (using "magic" objects
> to build where clauses, etc.).  But I'm trying to take it all the
> way--to a legit Select statement.
>
> While still in the early stages, it does work with a great many sql
> statements, as seen in the test suite.  Currently supported are CASE
> statements, Nested conditional clauses, nested queries and most join
> types. At this point, I'm interested in getting feedback from the
> community on several fronts:
>
>    1. The Operator Overload model. I've chosen to overload Python's
> operators to give a short-hand syntax to most of the things you'd
> want to do with a select statement. The rest are accessable via
> methods. Currently ** is the "where" operator, // is the "in"
> operator, % the "like" operator and ^ aliases columns. Other
> overloads are as you'd expect- + / - * == all result in Expression
> Objects that dish out the right SQL string. The question is, is the
> "leap" in syntax to confusing? Is there a cleaner way to do this?
> (Functions for example)

The big operator question will be: how will "and" and "or" be
implemented? This is always a sticking point because of Python's
short-circuiting behaviors regarding them (the resultant bytecode will
include a JUMP).

An alternative is to stuff the representation into a string, which can
then be parsed however one likes.

For Dejavu (http://projects.amor.org/dejavu), I didn't do either
one--instead I used lambdas to express the where clause, so that:

    f = logic.Expression(lambda x: ('Rick' in x.Name) or
                         (x.Birthdate == datetime.date(1970, 1, 1)))
    units = sandbox.recall(Person, f)

might produce, in the bowels of the ORM:

    "SELECT * FROM [Person] WHERE [Person].[Name] Like '%Rick%' or
[Person].[Birthdate] = #1/1/1970#"

Note that the tablename is provided in a separate step. The translation
is based on the codewalk.py and logic.py modules, which are in the
public domain if you want to use any part of them. See
http://projects.amor.org/dejavu/svn/trunk/

>    2. How to best add further sql function support? Adding magic
> callable objects to columns came to mind, but this has it's own set
> of issues. I'm leaning towards a magic object in the sqlstring
> module. For example:
>
>       sqlstring.F.substring(0, 4, person.first_name)
>
>       would result in: substring(0, 4, person.first_name). the F object
> could be put in the local scope for short-hand.

This is a hard problem, since your sqlstring module doesn't control the
result sets, and so can't provide fallback mechanisms if a given
database does not support a given function (or operator, or minute
detail of how a function or operator works; for example, LIKE is
case-insensitive in MS SQL Server but case-sensitive in PostgreSQL). If
you're going to use subclasses to handle "database-specific overwrites"
(below), then you'll probably want to stick such functions in that base
class (and override them in subclasses), as well.

>    3. I'm undecided on how best to handle database specific
> overwrites. I want this to be as easy as possible. I'm thinking about
> subclassing Expressions with a naming scheme on the Sub-Class (such as
> CaseExpression_oracle). Then the __init__ factory could dish out the
> right version of the object based on the requestor. This brings up
> lots of questions, such as how to support multiple types of databases
> at the same time.

See the Adapter and SQLDecompiler classes in
http://projects.amor.org/dejavu/svn/trunk/storage/db.py (and the
store*.py modules) for some examples of using subclassing to produce
database-specific syntax. There, it's one Adapter class per supported
DB-type; you might consider keeping the Expression objects themselves
free from SQL, and transform the Expressions to SQL in a separate
class, which you could then subclass.

Just a couple of thoughts from someone who's done the
string-manipulation dance once before. ;) I must admit I've always
punted when it came time to produce complex joins or CASE
statements--Dejavu simply doesn't provide that level of expressivity,
preferring instead to hide it behind the object layer.


Robert Brewer
System Architect
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct  5 11:24:25 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:24:25 -0400
Subject: How to create temp file in memory???
In-Reply-To: <di0ql0$21i$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
References: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>	<mailman.1539.1128524487.509.python-list@python.org>
	<di0ql0$21i$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <4343F029.4020708@bellsouth.net>

Wenhua Zhao wrote:

>I have a list of lines. I want to feed these lines into a function.
>The input of this function is a file.
>I want to creat a temp file on disk, and write the list of lines into 
>this temp file, then reopen the file and feed it to the function.
>Can I create a this temp file on memory???
>
>
>
>Jeremy Jones wrote:
>  
>
>>Wenhua Zhao wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>A.T.T
>>>
>>>Thanks a lot.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>If you could elaborate a bit more, it might be helpful.  I'm guessing 
>>you want something like StringIO or cStringIO.
>>
>>
>>- jmj
>>    
>>
If the function takes a file object as an argument, you should be able 
to use StringIO or cStringIO.


- jmj


From tamer at remove-this-tammura.at-and.this  Wed Oct  5 08:53:45 2005
From: tamer at remove-this-tammura.at-and.this (Tamer Fahmy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:53:45 +0200
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.05.12.53.45.534295@remove-this-tammura.at-and.this>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:13:10 +0300, Maksim Kasimov wrote:
> my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter how
> long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is nothing in
> log-files that can points the problem. My question is how it possible to
> find out where is the problem in the code? Thanks for any help.
> 
> Python 2.2.3
> FreeBSD

you could start your program within a gdb session like so:

$ gdb python
GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD]
Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software,
covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change
it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show
copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. 
Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as
"i386-marcel-freebsd"...(no debugging symbols found)...
(gdb) r foo.py
Starting program: /usr/bin/python foo.py ...

once your progmam segfaults you can then inspect the stack through:

(gdb) bt

cheers,
  tamer.

-- 
  hardware, n: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked.




From jwentingathornetdotdemondotnl  Sun Oct 16 05:54:20 2005
From: jwentingathornetdotdemondotnl (Jeroen Wenting)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:54:20 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <11l48tuqj7m11b5@corp.supernews.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86ll0vs1sw.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> "Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> writes:
>>>>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>>>>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
>>> They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are evil, not
>>> because they have a large market share.
>> no, they got their by clever marketing and generally having a product 
>> that
>> was easier to use for the average user than anything the competition made
>> and a lot more powerful than other products created for their main target
>> market.
>
> What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
> practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
> PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
> Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
> didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.
>
And were later forced to rescind. The judge who wrote that opinion is well 
known for his anti-Microsoft activism.

>> Prices would be far far higher than they are today
>
> I disagree. Before Gates decided to sell BASIC, software was very
> cheap.  It started getting cheap again in the late 80s. Now that cheap
> software is threatening MS, they're doing their best to shut down all
> the sources of quality cheap software, with there usual disregard for
> truth, legality, ethics or the good of either the customer or their
> business partners.
>
WordPerfect (to take an example) cost several thousand dollars.
When Microsoft released Office 4 for a few hundred WP was forced to lower 
prices radically, and so was Lotus (to name a few).


>> IBM's prediction that there would be 5 computers (not counting game
>> computers like the Comodores and Spectrums) by 2000 would likely have 
>> come
>> true.
>
> I see. You're a troll.
>
nope, I'm just sick and tired of trolls like you calling everyone who 
doesn't share their hatred of Microsoft a troll. 




From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Tue Oct 18 19:11:01 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:11:01 -0400
Subject: Intersection of lists/sets -- with a catch
References: <mailman.2233.1129670908.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129673443.076527.152520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129677062.dffd24a2066c21ee2d9a4ca0df992496@teranews>

"Carl Banks" <invalidemail at aerojockey.com> wrote:

> Howabout something like this (untested):
>
> class CmpProxy(object):
>     def __init__(self,obj):
>         self.obj = obj
>     def __eq__(self,other):
>         return (self.obj.att_a == other.obj.att_b
>                 and self.obj.att_b == other.obj.att_b)
>     def __hash__(self):
>         return hash((self.obj.att_a,self.obj.att_b))
>
> set_a = set(CmpProxy(x) for x in list_a)
> set_b = set(CmpProxy(y) for y in list_b)
> overlaps = [ z.obj for z in set_a.intersection(set.b) ]

Or more generally:

class Comparable(object):
    def __init__(self, obj, key):
        self.obj,self._key = obj,key
    def __hash__(self):
        return hash(self._key(self.obj))
    def __eq__(self, other):
        return self._key(self.obj) == self._key(other.obj)


if __name__ == '__main__':
    some_list = ["hello", "world"]
    another_list = ["HeLlO", "word"]
    key = str.lower
    some_set = set(Comparable(x,key) for x in some_list)
    another_set = set(Comparable(x,key) for x in another_list)
    print "overlaps:", [x.obj for x in some_set.intersection(another_set)]
    print "unique_some:", [x.obj for x in some_set.difference(another_set)]
    print "unique_another:", [x.obj for x in another_set.difference(some_set)]


George




From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Oct 10 19:21:55 2005
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:21:55 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.10.22.53.07.40262@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk6glhvgl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.22.53.07.40262@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <jl9r13-mk7.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Dan Stromberg wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:13:14 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>
>>Use SRP if you can.
> 
> Where can I learn more about this?

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2945.html

Ciao, Michael.


From luke at webber.com.au  Wed Oct 19 02:40:50 2005
From: luke at webber.com.au (Luke Webber)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:40:50 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>

David Schwartz wrote:
> "Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
> message news:35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi at 4ax.com...
>>On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:30:42 -0700, "David Schwartz"
>><davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :
> 
>>>   No, taken stupidly. Hint: would or would not MS executives disobeying
>>>the law constitute a betrayal of their obligation to their shareholders?
> 
>>You stated it literally as if making maximum profit for the
>>shareholders were the only consideration in determining conduct.
> 
>     No, I did not. I said that their obligation is to their shareholders.

As much as I hate to jump in on this thread, well I'm gonna...

I think you'll find that companies have all manner of legal obligations. 
Certainly to their shareholders, but beyond that they have an obligation 
  to their clients, who pay them for their services, and to any 
individual or entity which might be harmed by their actions.

A classic case in point would be Philip Morris, who did everything they 
could to protect their shareholders, but who shirked their duty of care 
to their customers and the the public at large. They have since paid 
heavily for that failure.

>>If that is not what you mean, I think you need to hedge more.
> 
>     I was perfectly clear. This is a lot of deliberate misunderstanding 
> going on in this thread and very little of it is from my side.

All that means to me is that your misunderstanding is not deliberate. <g>

Luke


From quiteblack at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 10:07:44 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (quiteblack at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 07:07:44 -0700
Subject: how to(can we ?) pass argument to .py script ?
Message-ID: <1129039664.425406.265670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

howdy~

i wrote a .py file and it works fine, my goal is to pass argument to
that py file when it get executed, and accept that argument within py
file, eg. i prefer a command like below:

python test.py -t

and then, i may get "-t" within test.py for later use.

i have no ideas how to do and i'm really stuck, can anyone help ?



From neuromancer at wanadoo.fr  Tue Oct 18 21:52:57 2005
From: neuromancer at wanadoo.fr (TokiDoki)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:52:57 +0200
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
Message-ID: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>

Hello there,

I have been programming python for a little while, now. But as I am 
beginning to do more complex stuff, I am running into small organization 
problems.
It is possible that what I want to obtain is not possible, but I would 
like the advice of more experienced python programmers.

I am writing a relatively complex program in python that has now around 
40 files.
At first, I had all of my files in one single directory, but now, with 
the increasing number of files, it is becoming hard to browse my directory.
So, I would want to be able to divide the files between 8 directory, 
according to their purpose. The problem is that it breaks the 'import's 
   between my files. And besides,AFAIK, there is no easy way to import a 
file that is not in a subdirectory of the current file (I suppose I 
could adjust the os.path in every file, but that seems not very elegant 
to me).
I thought about turning the whole into a package. But I have to change 
every 'import module_name' into
'from package_name.sub_directory_name import module_name'
which is a little bit time consuming and not very flexible (if I change 
my mind about the subdirectory a file belongs to, I will have to track 
again every import to correct them)

So, basically, here is the point: is there an 'elegant' way to keep my 
files in separate directory and still be able to import between them 
with simple 'import filename'?

And if not, what would be the standard way to organize numerous python 
files belonging to the same project?

Thank you,

TokiDoki


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Thu Oct 27 11:02:22 2005
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:02:22 GMT
Subject: time conversion
In-Reply-To: <OB58f.33235$b55.1588325@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <OB58f.33235$b55.1588325@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <2_58f.33249$b55.1588325@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

flupke wrote:
> Is there an easy to convert following hour notation hh:mm
> to decimals?
> For instance 2 hours and 30 minutes as 2:30 to 2,50
> I don't really know where to search for this kind of conversion.
> 
> Thanks,
> Benedict

I found a way. Not sure if it's the best:

time = "2:3"
factor = 100.0/60.0

time_parts = time.split(":")
minutes = int(float(time_parts[1]) * factor)
if ( len(str(minutes)) == 1 ): minutes *= 10 # to get 50 instead of 5
     time_new = "%s,%.02s" % (time_parts[0],minutes)
     print "%s -> %s " % (time,time_new)


From gerryandsharon at sympatico.ca  Sun Oct 30 16:40:10 2005
From: gerryandsharon at sympatico.ca (GerShar)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:40:10 -0500
Subject: Problem: Windows Command line Pipe to stdin
Message-ID: <15b9f.1703$J14.49315@news20.bellglobal.com>

Python 2.3 on Windows XP



The following works when run from the command line.



import sys

text = sys.stdin.read()
# do something on the text
# ...
sys.stdout.write(text)



But if the above code is used as a filter program that gets another programs 
output as shown below, it fails as shown.



C:\>textGen.py |  filter.py

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\filter.py", line 4, in ?

    text = sys.stdin.read()

IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor



Any ideas on what is happening and how to fix it?




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 12:38:21 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:38:21 +0200
Subject: Technical question on complexity.
References: <dim10h$v2f$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <dim2hv$oan$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:

> Anybody knows where I can find a concrete and guaranteed answer to the following
> extremely basic and simple question?
>
> What is the complexity of appending an element at the end of a list?

amortized O(1)

> Concatenating with another?

O(n)

> The point is that I don't know what is the allocation policy... If Python lists
> are standard pointer-chained small chunks, then obviously linear. But perhaps
> there is some optimisation, after all a tuple uses a contiguous chunk, so it
> *might* be possible that a list is essentially equivalent to an array, with its
> length stored within, and adding something may be done in constant time

a list consists of a single array of PyObject pointers, plus "allocated" and
"current size" fields.  when you append, allocation is only done when needed,
and the new size is chosen carefully to keep the number of allocations low.
see the source for details (the exact "overallocation" strategy varies some-
what in different Python versions).

</F>





From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 20 13:45:17 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:45:17 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Fq2dnc65T9RsWMreRVn-gQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <11lfltdrulivj6b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-20, Larry Bates <larry.bates at websafe.com> wrote:

> I would try to live with time scale being fixed

I don't understand what you mean by "the time scale being
fixed".  It's not.  If you just pass the time,value pairs to
gnuplot, it does exactly what it should.

> and insert
> None (or whatever value is used by charting package) for
> times where observations were not taken.  This will mean that
> you have to preprocess your data by determining a time step
> step value that will fit your data.  If you get 3 observations
> each 10 minutes apart then one an hour later, you will need to
> insert 5 empty observations in the list before the last
> observation.
>
> Example:
>
> 1:00 <value1>
> 1:10 <value2>
> 1:20 <value3>
> 2:20 <value4>
>
> 1:00 <value1>
> 1:10 <value2>
> 1:20 <value3>
> 1:30 <empty value>
> 1:40 <empty value>
> 1:50 <empty value>
> 2:00 <empty value>
> 2:10 <empty value>
> 2:20 <value4>

That's completely unnecessary.  Just pass a set of time,value
pairs and they'll get plotted as desired.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  As a FAD follower,
                                  at               my BEVERAGE choices are
                               visi.com            rich and fulfilling!


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 17 09:16:42 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:16:42 +1000
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<m3mzl87am5.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.17.13.16.41.654136@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:31:46 +0200, enrico.sirola_NOSPAM wrote:

>>>>>> "James" == James Gan <ganzhi at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     James> I want the object printed in a readable format. For
> 
> [...]
> 
>     James> I tried pickled, marshel. They do different work. Is there
>     James> another module which do this kind of job?
> 
> from pprint import pprint
> pprint(object)

I don't think that even comes *close* to what James wants.

py> import pprint
py> pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2], 5])
[1, 2, 3, 4, [0, 1, 2], 5]


-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 22 03:40:12 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:40:12 +0200
Subject: get a copy of a string leaving original intact
References: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F70@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
Message-ID: <djcqcu$8m3$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Bell, Kevin" wrote:

> I ended up slicing my string into a new one, rather than trying to have
> a copy of the string to alter in one case, or leave intact in another
> case.

given that you cannot modify strings in place in Python, that comment
probably doesn't match what your code really did...

("s = f" doesn't copy the string, it just binds a new name to the
existing string object.  "s = s.replace" doesn't modify that object;
it creates a new one, and binds the same name to that one in-
stead)

</F>





From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 01:15:54 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:15:54 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> I'd say CPython was missing the features that you need to guarantee
>> that. Missing quite a *lot* of features, in fact. But Python has never
>> been about keeping people from writing bad code - it's about helping
>> people write good code.
> Privilege separation is considered a good coding practice.  How does
> Python help it?

With conventions and name mangling. Which are only slightly less
effective than the C++/Java technic for doing the same thing.

>> Pretty much every attempt to restrict what other programmers do in
>> Python has failed - for "implementation issues". I think that's a good
>> sign that this kind of thing isn't going to work without some serious
>> work on the interpreter.
> You could take it as a sign that the interpreter could benefit from
> some serious work.

If you want it to become a secure environment to run untrusted code
in, then it definitely neede some serious work. I'd recommend starting
by copying /dev/null over all the .c and .h files. Of course, not
everyone wants that from Python, so they don't get any benefit from
such work.

> I don't know the situation in Jython.

I was going to suggest Jython as a better bet for getting something
rexec-like to work. Java was at least intended to provide a secure
environment to run untrusted code in, so you're not building on
quicksand. IronPython might also be worth a look, based on what little
(and it's very little) I know about .NET.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  4 14:44:54 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:44:54 -0500
Subject: Newbie regular expression ?
In-Reply-To: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051004184454.GA29124@unpythonic.net>

Here are two ideas that come to mind:
files = glob.glob("UNQ*.dat") + glob.glob("Unq*.dat") + glob.glob("unq.dat")

files = [f for f in glob.glob("*.dat") if f[:3] in ("UNQ", "Unq", "unq")]

Jeff
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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 18 09:08:16 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:08:16 -0500
Subject: Bloodhound.Exploit.49 trojan found in MIMEBase.pyc
In-Reply-To: <Gb45f.43406$U9.41138@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <Gb45f.43406$U9.41138@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20051018130816.GA3752@unpythonic.net>

It's almost certainly a false positive.  In my day job we run into false
positive antivirus detections like this once or twice a year, and
typically get a runaround from the AV vendor (who often have the gall to
suggest that we should buy a copy of their broken software before
they'll fix their problems)

Jeff
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From http  Sun Oct  2 13:55:41 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 10:55:41 -0700
Subject: python guru.. for a short conversation regarding bittorrent..
References: <mailman.1345.1128266236.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xvf0fu7ky.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"bruce" <bedouglas at earthlink.net> writes:
> if there's anyone here that i could talk with (phone) who's knowledgable
> about these areas, i'd appreciate it. i'm trying to get a much better
> understanding of the actual underlying app.

There's a #bittorrent irc channel on irc.freenode.net.  Try there.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 16:56:33 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:56:33 -0500
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <4349A3CD.8030603@open-networks.net>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<4349A3CD.8030603@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <200510101556.33681.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Sunday 09 October 2005 06:12 pm, Timothy Smith wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> >By looking at the source code for DutyShift.py?
> >
> well DUH thank you captain obvious! 

Well, since you apparently missed the subtlety, you 
DID NOT GIVE ADEQUATE INFORMATION if you expected to
get some kind of answer.  If you can't post the whole
module, AT LEAST try to reproduce the problem.

If a program doesn't show you where the error occurs,
you can usually find out by "instrumenting" the code,
which means, put in "print" statements.  You should be
able to localize the problem, THEN, it would be
appropriate to post a question about it here, with
a listing of the code showing where the error occurs.

The only way I'd have imagined this happening is if you
have something like

try:
	1 = 2
except:
	print "error"

in your code.  Which might still be the case, given the
way you claim to have "fixed" the problem (since the
kind of error a bad indent would've given you should
look different, unless it was caught, as above).

Now, it's not inconceivable that some unforseen thing
makes Python itself do this, but it's MUCH more likely
that it's something in YOUR CODE that does it.  So you
have the responsibility to localize it, and at least
show us what is being executed when this "error" occurs.

Certainly, if there WERE such a bug, no one would be
able to find it without you doing that.


--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From jelle.feringa at ezct.net  Thu Oct 20 11:34:04 2005
From: jelle.feringa at ezct.net (Jelle Feringa / EZCT Architecture & Design Research)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:34:04 +0200
Subject: Modules and Namespaces
Message-ID: <02d301c5d58b$b4a50050$0b01a8c0@JELLE>

##I'm sorry to stir up such a well discussed topic yet again, but namespaces
are a point of confusion to me...

I took the effort of organizing my Python code (scripting a cad program
calles Rhino) in well defined classes, which would be a terrific thing if I
didn't got stuck in namespace issues.

I have a module that launches the application I'm scripting via win32com;
rhino.load

from rhino import load
RS = load.RS

So the application, with all its methods are now available through the RS
(RhinoScript) object

from rhino import SRF # is where things get stuck

The RS object is the application scripted via COM, where all its method
reside.
In my module, SRF, I'm not importing anything, though it refers to the RS
object all the time.
Such as:

class srfBase:
    '''Base class inherited by the srf* classes, binding general Rhino
surface functionality to a particular
    surface generation method'''
    def __init__(self):
        self.id   = 'self.id srfBase'
        pass
    def isBrep(self):
        return RS.IsBrep(self.id)
    def isPointInSurface(self, coord):
        return RS.IsPointInSurface(self.id, coord)


How do I make the RS object available to the imported SRF module, such that
my module code and program code both refer to RS as the application object
being scripted?

Cheers,

Jelle.




From hrvoje at despammed.com  Tue Oct  4 16:23:06 2005
From: hrvoje at despammed.com (Hrvoje Blazevic)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:23:06 +0200
Subject: Idle
Message-ID: <dhuo72$8lo$1@ss405.t-com.hr>

How do I get Idle to work on Linux?

I've tried to compile 2.4.2 on Fedora core 4, and Suse 9.3, but Idle is 
after make install either missing (Fedora), or reports **Idle can't 
import Tkinter... **

Thanks

-- Hrvoje


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 03:38:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 09:38:54 +0200
Subject: Statement orders
References: <1128236799.839645.101270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dho2qg$pvs$1@sea.gmane.org>

Monu Agrawal wrote:

> Hi I am making a gui based tool. When user preses a perticular button I
> am running a heavy command, before this I want to say user to wait with
> a image showing infront of her.
>
> My code is like:
>
> def loadData(self):
>    top=Toplevel(self.parent)
>    top.focus_set()
>    self.parent.wm_title("Loading Data...")

+    top.update() # flush the event queue

>    os.system('a heavy command')
>    os.system('another heavy command)
>    top.destroy()

</F>





From sjmaster at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 18:08:07 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 15:08:07 -0700
Subject: Bug in COM Makepy utility? (ActivePython 2.4)
Message-ID: <1128636487.225741.266930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

When I use the COM Makepy utility on one computer with WindowsXP,
ActivePython 2.3 and I select the library Microsoft Word 10.0 Object
Library (8.2), things work fine.
When I have WindowsXP, ActivePython 2.4 (build 247) and Microsoft Word
11.0 Object Library (8.3), then I get the following SyntaxError, and on
two different computers I tested this. More on the error below, but has
anyone else had this problem? Will there soon be a newer build of
ActivePython? I've never used the standard Python distribution with
manually installed win32all package, just because its so easy to deploy
ActivePython. Should I consider switching, now that I'm on the topic?


>>> Generating to C:\Python24\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py\00020905-0000-0000-C000-000000000046x0x8x3\__init__.py
Building definitions from type library...
Generating...
Importing module
Failed to execute command:
from win32com.client import makepy;makepy.main()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\toolmenu.py",
line 103, in HandleToolCommand
    exec "%s\n" % pyCmd
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python24\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\makepy.py", line
363, in main
    GenerateFromTypeLibSpec(arg, f, verboseLevel = verboseLevel,
bForDemand = bForDemand, bBuildHidden = hiddenSpec)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\makepy.py", line
274, in GenerateFromTypeLibSpec
    gencache.AddModuleToCache(info.clsid, info.lcid, info.major,
info.minor)
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\gencache.py",
line 555, in AddModuleToCache
    mod = _GetModule(fname)
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\gencache.py",
line 634, in _GetModule
    mod = __import__(mod_name)
  File
"C:\Python24\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py\00020905-0000-0000-C000-000000000046x0x8x3\__init__.py",
line 2831
     '{00020960-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}' : 'Pane',
	'{00020961-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}' : 'Windows',
                                                       ^
 SyntaxError: invalid syntax


I don't entirely understand the error (I'm rather ignorant of the whole
process Makepy is doing, come to think of it...). First of all, when I
load the file with the alleged syntax error into Scite, the line where
the caret is pointing to is actually 2838, not line 2831. Further, I
cannot detect any syntax errors based on visual inspection. In fact,
when I copy/paste lines 2830-2840 into a new script and put "d = {"
before the lines and "}" after the lines, it is syntactically valid
python that executes without complaint. I don't know how "dynamically"
this file is being generated, but somethin' ain't right.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:23:34 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:23:34 +0200
Subject: Hi All - Newby
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
Message-ID: <djkq25$v4u$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Ask" wrote:

> As an example, if I create a window, I've been unable to force it to be a certain size, and put a 
> button (widget) at (say) 20,40 (x & y). Is window formatting possible?

I'm pretty sure all GUI toolkits can do that, but the exact details depend on the library
you're using.

(if you're using Tkinter, see this page: http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/place.htm )

</F> 





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 10 23:01:40 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:01:40 -0500
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
In-Reply-To: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <20051011030140.GC21569@unpythonic.net>

While there may be a discussion somewhere in the archives,
the comments in listobject.c are enlightening too.

/* Ensure ob_item has room for at least newsize elements, and set
 * ob_size to newsize.  If newsize > ob_size on entry, the content
 * of the new slots at exit is undefined heap trash; it's the caller's
 * responsiblity to overwrite them with sane values.
 * The number of allocated elements may grow, shrink, or stay the same.
 * Failure is impossible if newsize <= self.allocated on entry, although
 * that partly relies on an assumption that the system realloc() never
 * fails when passed a number of bytes <= the number of bytes last
 * allocated (the C standard doesn't guarantee this, but it's hard to
 * imagine a realloc implementation where it wouldn't be true).
 * Note that self->ob_item may change, and even if newsize is less
 * than ob_size on entry.
 */
[...]
/* This over-allocates proportional to the list size, making room
 * for additional growth.  The over-allocation is mild, but is
 * enough to give linear-time amortized behavior over a long
 * sequence of appends() in the presence of a poorly-performing
 * system realloc().
 * The growth pattern is:  0, 4, 8, 16, 25, 35, 46, 58, 72, 88, ...
 */
"linear-time amortized behavior" (i.e., that list.append() is O(1) on average)
is the important characteristic you're probably looking for.

CVS source for listobject.c can be seen here:
	http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Objects/listobject.c?rev=2.227&view=markup

Jeff
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From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 18:58:18 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:58:18 -0400
Subject: packaging a python project and associated graphics files
References: <pan.2005.10.03.22.29.10.609593@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <867jcujjhx.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at presidency.com> writes:

> Hi, I've been trying to package a python project and I'm a little confused
> about how I distribute some PNG's that the program uses as icons.
>
> Using distutils I can set the data_files argument of setup() and get my
> data files located in, say, /usr/local/mydata.
>
> However when I write my code, it would seem that I have to hardcode the
> above path. But this would mean that while working on the code I would
> need to have it 'installed' on my system (or else actually make the above
> directory).
>
> This seems a little unwieldy. How do people handle this situation?

With symlinks from the installed location to the source tree.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 20:39:49 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 17:39:49 -0700
Subject: wxListbook layout problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2568.1130280641.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130256419.199548.313950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<435e8045$0$20495$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.2568.1130280641.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130287189.312391.161440@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

It is definitely a bug. The same problem also happens with
wx.LB_BOTTOM.

Tested on WinXP (SP2), python 2.4.1, wxPython 2.6.1.0

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From http  Thu Oct 13 14:44:21 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 11:44:21 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Scott David Daniels <scott.daniels at acm.org> writes:
> > I think most of the time, branch prediction will prevent the cache
> > flush.
> But, branch prediction is usually a compiler thing, based on code
> that is, in this case, a spot in the interpreter that is actually
> taking both sides of the branch quite often.  If you split the
> interpreter to have a "presumed int" side, you might do OK, but
> that is not how the code works at the moment.

Yes, I'm hypothesizing a native-code compiler as might come out of
the PyPy project.

> > if you have two tagged integers,
> > you can add and subtract them without having to twiddle the tags.
> You can do so only once you discover you have two tagged integers.
> The test for tagged integers (rather, the subsequent branch) is the
> thing that blows the pipe.

I mean in cases where the compiler can determine that it's dealing
with small ints.  That might be harder in Python than in Lisp, given
how dynamic Python is.  

> > The alternative (tag==1 means integer) means you don't have to mask
> > off the tag bits to dereference pointers, and you can still add a
> > constant to a tagged int by simply adjusting the constant
> > appropriately.
> And this presumes an architecture which byte-addresses and only
> uses "aligned" addresses.

Yes, that would describe just about every cpu for the past 30 years
that's a plausible Python target.


From lycka at carmen.se  Mon Oct 17 12:09:31 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:09:31 +0200
Subject: Writing an immutable object in python
In-Reply-To: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj0ibt$4ja$1@wake.carmen.se>

Mapisto wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've noticed that if I initialize list of integers in the next manner:
> 
> 
>>>>my_list = [0] * 30
> 
> 
> It works just fine, even if I'll try to assign one element:
> 
> 
>>>>id( my_list[4] )
> 
> 10900116
> 
>>>>id( my_list[6] )
> 
> 10900116
> 
>>>>my_list[4] = 6
>>>>id( my_list[4] )
> 
> 10900044
> 
>>>>id( my_list[6] )
> 
> 10900116
> 
> The change in the poision occurs becouse int() is an immutable object.

No, it happens because you assign my_list[4] to a different object.
Obviously, 0 and 6 can't be located in the same place in RAM.

The difference lies in doing something like "my_list[n] = X" rather
than changing the state of a shared existing object as in something
like "my_list[n].f(X)".

> if I will do the same with a user-defined object, This reference
> manipulating will not happen. 

Really?
 >>> class C:
...    pass
...
 >>> my_list = [C()]*30
 >>> id(my_list[4])
1003056
 >>> id(my_list[6])
1003056
 >>> my_list[4] = C() # Another instance
 >>> id(my_list[4])
986048
 >>> id(my_list[6])
1003056


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 14 22:41:00 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:41:00 -0400
Subject: XML dom question
References: <1129339019.065675.314480@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129344063.eb6990d4cd74331d8defb9b71b046420@teranews>

"George" <buffer_88 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> How can I do the following in python:
>
> [snipped]

In exactly the same way you could do it if you actually read the replies to the thread with the same
topic you posted yesterday. Duh!

George




From themightydoyle at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 00:49:07 2005
From: themightydoyle at gmail.com (themightydoyle at gmail.com)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 21:49:07 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.

Thanx for all the input.



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 18:06:21 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:06:21 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<m3ll0h8u2t.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djluqm$gkg$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <trm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> "Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
> news:pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

>> The first two points are factually wrong, and the third is an opinion
>> based on the concept, as far as I can see, that Microsoft should be
>> allowed to do anything they like, even if those actions harm others.

>     Of course this alleged "harm" is simply a lack of a benefit.

>     Why is Burger King allowed to close at 10PM? That harms me when I'm 
> hungry after 10.

They can close when they like because the policy is not discriminatory,
nor is part of an attempt to manage the market. If they were to do
things that harmed the market - such as telling meat suppliers that
supplied them that they couldn't supply anyone else, that would be a
possible candidate for anti-competitive behaviour suits. It would have
to be shown that the arrangement WAS materially anti-competitive,
though, and that's difficult to conceive of because MacDonalds does
not constitute a major portion of the market demand for corned beef,
so they don't have the leverage.

Peter


From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Thu Oct 27 02:50:10 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:50:10 +0200
Subject: assignment to reference
References: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
	<435feab7$0$31384$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrndm0u0q.9b1.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers enlightened us with:
> for obj in (a, b, c):
>    if obj == 'cabbage':
>      obj = 'coconut'

Doesn't work on my Python:

Python 2.4.2 (#2, Sep 30 2005, 21:19:01) 
[GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a = 'apple'
>>> b = 'banana'
>>> c = 'cabbage'
>>> for obj in (a, b, c):
...    if obj == 'cabbage':
...      obj = 'coconut'
... 
>>> c
'cabbage'
>>>

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From eugene at boardkulture.com  Fri Oct  7 14:38:14 2005
From: eugene at boardkulture.com (EuGeNe)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:38:14 +0200
Subject: Book "Python and Tkinter Programming"
In-Reply-To: <1128690443.478697.33250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128620086.240847.235490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128690443.478697.33250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di6fja$hks$1@aphrodite.grec.isp.9tel.net>

It is available as PDF from the editor ... Manning. In my recollection 
for 25 USD

projecktzero wrote:
> striker wrote:
> 
>>Does anyone who has this book willing to sell it.  Please e-mail me the
>>condition and any other details if you are interested.
>>Thanks,
>>Kevin
> 
> 
> half.com has a couple of people selling it. One for $35.24 and another
> for $129.97.
> 


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Wed Oct 19 12:32:54 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:32:54 -0400
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
References: <43567027$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<-_2dndLn4eEm78veRVn-qg@comcast.com>
	<4356740c$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <43567508$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:

> Larry Bates wrote:
> 
>> Can you give us an example.  I don't know what two bit
>> hex means (takes at least 4 bits to make a hex digit).
> 
> Like 64(base 16)=100.
> I am referring to 64 in the above.
> 
>> 
>> Now I'm going to try to guess:
>> 
>> If the data is binary then all you need to do is to
>> use the struct.unpack module to convert to integer.
> 
> Doesn't unpack presume that the input is a string ? If so, is it safe to
> convert binary data to string using str() ?

Followup to this :

I just tried :

n=str(x)
print struct.unpack("b",n)

I get (51,)

The corresponding output of binascii.b2a_hex(x) is 33.

And 51_10=33_16. So that checks out. What is the deal with the parenthesis
and the comma ?


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 13 17:32:12 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:32:12 -0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <11ktkis6d2ko16b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-13, Paul Rubin <> wrote:

> The answer to each of those questions points to Tkinter.  It comes
> with Python by default (the least installation hassles of any
> toolkit), is pretty reliable, has a reasonably Pythonic interface, and
> I don't understand the question about external libraries.
>
> However, Tkinter not most people's favorite, because the widgets look
> crude, they don't resemble the native widgets of any popular platform,
> and the widget set is somewhat limited.

Aside from the look & feel issue with Tk, the other objection
sometimes heard is that Tk is integrated into Python by
including Tcl as well (as opposed to doing an actual Tk binding
the way some other languages have done).  It's an eminently
practical approach, but it sure makes you feel dirty.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Hey!! Let's watch
                                  at               the' ELEVATOR go UP and
                               visi.com            DOWN at th' HILTON HOTEL!!


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 22:56:37 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:56:37 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86slule9vy.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130527656.685340.235470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.50.29.681897@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h55rde.xau95e1ldjtftN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:27:36 -0700, usgog at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> > hm...Is there a way to get rid of the newline in "print"?
> 
> Yes, by using another language *wink*

Ending the print statement with a comma also works;-)

 
> Or, instead of using print, use sys.stdout.write().

Yep, generally better than 'print'.


Alex


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 27 19:28:27 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:28:27 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86y84ehd3j.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> I've noticed something strange that makes me wonder the same
>> thing. Everytime someone compares MS's behavior with that of any other
>> criminals, he responds about MS's activity being "equated to that of
>> criminals with guns", and refuses to discuss the issue. Ironically,
>> while no one else has so much as compared MS to criminals with guns -
>> after all, they're white collar criminals - David Schwartz called the
>> DOJ official who were investigating MS "criminals with guns pointed
>> out [MS officers] heads".
>     I can't understand why you would post an outright lie like this. 

I, on the other hand, understand why you accuse me of lying. You don't
have an answer to the claim, so you call the claim false. SOP for you.

> "Ironically, while no one else has so much as compared MS to criminals with 
> guns". I defy you to find *one* place where I complain that MS behavior is 
> equated to the actual use of force where that is not in fact done in 
> precisely the thread I'm replying to.

The first one is at:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/8422f41c9fe137b0?dmode=source&hl=en

The original comment was:

>> No, they didn't ask for more than Windows were worth. They tilted the
>> playing field against MS competitors by causing consumers to pay MS
>> money for products they didn't receive. In most countries, taking
>> money from unwilling victims without giving them anything in exchange
>> is called "theft".

Note that no mention is made of guns or force - just a definition of
theft. Unless you're so narrowminded that nothing short of pointing a
gun at someone and demanding money from them is stealing from them,
there is no way that this can be equated to the actual use of
force. And if you do believe that definition of stealing, I'll do your
bookkeeping for free - and I won't steal from you.

Your reply:

>    It is not theft if you can simply say "no" to the deal and all that 
>happens is that you don't get the product. Your argument is preposterous. If 
>you accept arguments that equate guns with arguments, the next step is that 
>using a gun is a rational response to an argument one doesn't like. Oh wait, 
>you're already there.

Wherein you accuse me of equating MS's actions with using guns, which
is *exactly* what I said you do.

There are lots more examples of you doing this kind of thing. Like I
said, everytime someone compares MS's behavior with some less
controversial criminal behavior, you act like they accused MS of
holding people up at gunpoint.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 03:57:27 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:57:27 +0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djnct8$tlr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joerg Schuster wrote:

> > if you want to know why 100 is a reasonable and non-random choice, I
> > suggest checking the RE documentation for "99 groups" and the special
> > meaning of group 0.
>
> I have read everything I found about Python regular expressions. But I
> am not able to understand what you mean. What is so special about 99?

it's the largest number than can be written with two decimal digits.

</F>





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 22 08:35:34 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:35:34 -0400
Subject: Listening for keypress in the background
In-Reply-To: <m2zmp1u6l1.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <m2zmp1u6l1.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <j9KdnW2xM51nrMfeRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Mathias Dahl wrote:
> I have created a small Python program that is running on my desktop.
> 
> How can I make it listen for a certain keypress (say, Windows-key +
> space) in a controlled fashion even when it is not the program having
> focus?
> 
> I need to do this running under GNOME in Mandrake GN/Linux 10.

Search Google for "python keylogger".

-Peter


From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Tue Oct  4 12:22:24 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:22:24 -0500
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
Message-ID: <200510041122.25067.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Tuesday 04 October 2005 11:13, Maksim Kasimov wrote:
> my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter
> how long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is
> nothing in log-files that can points the problem. My question is how
> it possible to find out where is the problem in the code? Thanks for
> any help.

What extension modules are you using?

I've never seen "stock" Python (stable release w/ only included modules) 
segfault, but did see a segfault with an extension module I was using 
the other week (lxml IIRC, but I'm not sure).

- Michael


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct 19 12:22:21 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:22:21 -0500
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
In-Reply-To: <43567027$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <43567027$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <-_2dndLn4eEm78veRVn-qg@comcast.com>

Can you give us an example.  I don't know what two bit
hex means (takes at least 4 bits to make a hex digit).

Now I'm going to try to guess:

If the data is binary then all you need to do is to
use the struct.unpack module to convert to integer.

Larry Bates

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am using binascii.b2a_hex to convert some binary data to hex. The result
> is a two bit hex representation (i. e., without the leading hex). How do I
> convert the resulting two bit representation into an integer ?
> 
> Thanks.


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 14:44:16 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:44:16 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:lgs133-7ub.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>>     Yes, it certainly is. However, it is also Microsoft's right as a 
>> seller
>> to refuse discounts to those who also sell competing products. You may 
>> not

> No it is not their "right"! That would be a discriminatory practice,
> not to mention an anti-competitive practice. Totally.

    Businesses have the right to be discriminatory and anti-competitive in 
this way. McDonald's won't sell a Burger King their burger patties. This is 
both discriminatory and anti-competitive, but also perfectly legal, moral, 
and proper.

    You only run into a problem under United States law if the company is a 
monopoly. And I've already addressed that issue in this thread.

    DS




From stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de  Wed Oct 26 14:44:20 2005
From: stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:44:20 +0200
Subject: Attribute value of instance method non-modifiable?
Message-ID: <djoips$72c$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hi!

I just stumbled over this:


.>>> class test(object):
...   def t(): pass
...   t.testval = 1
...
.>>> test.t
<unbound method test.t>
.>>> test.t.testval
1
.>>> test.t.testval = 2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'instancemethod' object has no attribute 'testval'
.>>> dir(test.t)
['__call__', '__class__', '__cmp__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__get__',
'__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__',
'__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', 'im_class', 'im_func',
'im_self', 'testval']
>>> test.t.im_func.testval = 2
>>> test.t.testval
2
>>>



While I understand that a function is different from an instance method, it is
rather far from intuitive that the instance method provides read access to the
attribute of the enclosed function but not write access.

Does anyone know if this is a deliberate implementation decision? Is there any
reasoning behind that?

Stefan


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 21 18:35:29 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:35:29 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2292.1129786159.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<1129778582.411476.259500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<1129781346.035866.16660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<slrndle7ur.3ou.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.2292.1129786159.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <C9ydnaJadtOG8MTeRVn-sg@powergate.ca>

Bryan wrote:
> Dave Cook wrote:
>> Cale?  You mean Python has more ruffage?
> 
> i think you mean "kale" not "cale".  nothing like a hot bowl of tofu 
> kale soup while reading the recipes in the "python cookbook".

Well, if he's going to talk about "ruffage" instead of "roughage", 
perhaps he really did mean "cale" and not "kale". ;-)


From ms at cerenity.org  Sun Oct  2 15:16:47 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:16:47 +0100
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434031f6$0$73596$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>

Xah Lee wrote:

> as i have hinted
> ( http://xahlee.org/perl-python/list_comprehension.html ), the
> so-called List Comprehension is just a irregular syntax to facilitate
> generating lists. The name is a terrible jargon, and the means is also
> quite fucked up. The proper name should be something like
> ListGenerator, and the proper means should be the plain function.

List comprehensions get their name (AFAICT) very clearly from set
comprehensions in mathematics. As a result anyone who has ever seen
a set comprehension in maths goes "oooh, I see". They're not the same, but
IMO they're close enough to warrant that name.

> i'm running a project that will code Table in Perl and Python and Java.
> You can read about the spec and source code here:
> http://xahlee.org/tree/Table.html
> (note: the Python version there isn't complete)

I just took a look at your python version. I'd agree it's incomplete. Indeed
it doesn't implement what you say it does. You seem to have re-invented
"apply" since you simply (badly) pass a set of arguments provided by the
user to a function provided by the user.

The description of the code you are pointing at bears absolutely no
resemblance whatsoever to the functionality you describe.

And you criticise the way other people name & describe their code,
when you can't show the skills you criticise in others? I know naming and
documentation are not easy skills, and if people take a *civil* tone in
suggested improvements, criticism (and suggestions) can be helpful.

However, I'd suggest /finishing/ your glass house /before/ you start
throwing stones, or else you'll never be able to smash it up the
neighbourhood properly.


Michael.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 21:21:47 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:21:47 -0700
Subject: override a property
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<4354b324$0$21023$636a55ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2208.1129627807.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h4s9ug.k3op7dg6c66hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
   ...
> in answer to Bengt & Bruno here is what I'm sort of playing with. Alex
> suggests class change as an answer, but that looks really clunky to me.
> I'm not sure what

Changing class is indeed 'clunky', though it might have been necessary
depending on how one interpreted your original specs.

> Alex means by
> 
> > A better design might be to use, instead of the builtin
> > type 'property', a different custom descriptor type that is specifically
> > designed for your purpose -- e.g., one with a method that instances can
> > call to add or remove themselves from the set of "instances overriding
> > this ``property''" and a weak-key dictionary (from the weakref module)
> > mapping such instances to get/set (or get/set/del, if you need to
> > specialize "attribute deletion" too) tuples of callables.
> 
> I see it's clear how to modify the behaviour of the descriptor instance,
> but is he saying I need to mess with the descriptor magic methods so they
> know what applies to each instance?

If (e.g.) __set__ needs to behave differently when applied to certain
instances rather than others, then it had better be "messed with"
(overridden) compared to property.__set__ since the latter has no such
proviso.  Of course, your architecture as sketched below (taking
advantage of the fact that property.__set__ always calls a certain
callable, and you get to control that callable) is OK too.


> ## my silly example
> class ObserverProperty(property):
>      def __init__(self,name,observers=None,validator=None):
>          self._name = name
>          self._observers = observers or []
>          self._validator = validator or (lambda x: x)
>          self._pName = '_' + name
>          property.__init__(self,
>                  fset=lambda inst, value: self.__notify_fset(inst,value),
>                  )

Why not just fset=self.__notify_fset ?  I fail to see the added value of
this lambda.  Anyway...:

>      def __notify_fset(self,inst,value):
>          value = self._validator(value)
>          for obs in self._observers:
>              obs(inst,self._pName,value)
>          inst.__dict__[self._pName] = value
> 
>      def add(self,obs):
>          self._observers.append(obs)

...this class only offers sets of observers *per-descriptor instance*,
not ones connected to a specific 'inst' being observed.  My point is,
you could add the latter pretty easily.


> def obs0(inst,pName,value):
>      print 'obs0', inst, pName, value
> 
> def obs1(inst,pName,value):
>      print 'obs1', inst, pName, value
> 
> class A(object):
>      x = ObserverProperty('x')
> 
> a=A()
> A.x.add(obs0)
> 
> a.x = 3
> 
> b = A()
> b.x = 4
> 
> #I wish I could get b to use obs1 instead of obs0
> #without doing the following
> class B(A):
>      x = ObserverProperty('x',observers=[obs1])
> 
> b.__class__ = B
> 
> b.x = 7

You can, if you have a way to call, say, b.x.add_per_inst(b, obs1).
Such as, adding within ObserverProperty:

  self._observers_per_inst = {}

in the init, and changing the notification method to do:

     def __notify_fset(self,inst,value):
         value = self._validator(value)
         observers = self._observers_per_inst.get(inst)
         if not observers: observers = self._observers
         for obs in observers:
             obs(inst,self._pName,value)
         inst.__dict__[self._pName] = value

and a new method add_per_inst:

     def add_per_inst(self, inst, obs):
         self._observers_per_inst.setdefault(inst,[]).append(obs)

Of course, you most likely want to use weak rather than normal
references here (probably to both instances and observers), but that's a
separate issue.


Alex


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 22 19:22:34 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:22:34 -0400
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86oe5h9lxh.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"eduardo.padoan at gmail.com" <eduardo.padoan at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm reading about "high order messages" in Ruby by Nat Pryce, and
> thinking if it could be  util and if so, if it could be done in Python.
> Someone already tried?

Yes, I'm pretty sure it could be done in Python. All it really needs
is the ability to catch references to undefined attributes, which
Python has. You make the HOM of your collection class return an object
with a reference to self, and the __getattr__ method of that classs
then invokes getattr on each object in the referenced collection
instance for the undefined method, manipulating the result as
appropriate for that HOM, and returning a new list.

But this really isn't a very good fit for Python. This is really a
feature for more aggressively OO languages. To make the examples HOMs
described really useful, you want to add them to some base class for
collections. But that base class doesn't exist in Python - Python just
isn't that OO.

You could add various HOMs to lists, tuples, generators and iterators
- but then anyone who wanted to create a new sequence class would have
to add all of the HOMs that their clients might want to use. The
pythonic way would be to add a function that works with all the
various sequence types - which would then automatically work with any
user-defined classes that quacked like a sequence. It's not very OO -
but it is pythonic. In fact, Python already has functions that capture
the functionality of the example HOMs in the links you posted: where
and unless are handled by filter. in_order_of and in_reverse_order_of
are handled by sorted. do is is handled by map. Of course, recent
versions of python provide list comprehensions as preferable to some
of these functions.

That said, HOM's are a *very* powerful mechanism. The examples - and
my discussion of them - cover just one very broad use case. There may
be others where they are a better fit with Python. Having examples of
how to do these kinds of things around is probably worthwhile.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Tue Oct 11 07:37:57 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:37:57 +0200
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
Message-ID: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

I must be missing something but what is the proper way to do a function 
using such arguments ?

Specifically I'm looking for:

- ability to take an unspecified number of "positional arguments"
- ability to take optional named arguments that follows the first arguments
- raise appropriate errors if I use the wrong named arguments

for instance:

fn(1, 2, 3)
fn(1, 2, 3, cmp=lambda x, y: y-x)
fn(1, 2, 3, cpm=lambda x, y: y-x) # TypeError on this

Is the following the way to go ?

def fn(*values, **options):
     comparison = cmp
     for key, value in options.iteritems():
         if key == "cmp":
             comparison = value
         else:
             raise TypeError, "'%s' is an invalid keyword argument for 
this function" % key
     # rest of function here

or is the "proper python" way simply this:

def fn(*values, **options):
     if "cmp" in options: comparison = options["cmp"]
     else: comparison = cmp
     # rest of function here

and thus ignoring the wrong parameter names?

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Wed Oct 19 17:34:51 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:34:51 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <11lcnqt2c7jhmcc@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rlj78Fjsu7mU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2244.1129711847.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rmh1uFk236lU1@individual.net>
	<11lcnqt2c7jhmcc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <BF0F6245-7760-481F-9888-BC0E84CC8076@sbcglobal.net>

I'd have to agree with this. Unfortunately, the only way to use Swing  
(in a
reasonable manner) from Python is to use Jython, and Jython has other
shortcomings that make me not want to use it.

Sigh.

Ken
On 19-Oct-05, at 9:59 AM, Ed Jensen wrote:

> Claudio Grondi <claudio.grondi at freenet.de> wrote:
>
>> I haven't seen any really platform-independent software yet and I  
>> don't
>> expect to see any in the future.
>> It is simply not possible to have one, even if much progress was  
>> done lately
>> in many areas in order to try to approach it as close as possible.
>>
>
> Java + Swing is probably as good as it gets when the goal is to write
> platform independent software.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 17 11:54:22 2005
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:54:22 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 17)
Message-ID: <mailman.2194.1129589221.509.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW: "If you don't have the time to be paranoid, try taking the time to
straighten out identity theft." -- K. G. Schneider

"The best way to make classes on the fly is generally to call the
metaclass with suitable parameters (just like, the best way to make
instances of any type is generally to call that type)." -- Alex Martelli


    What code is good to read?  The Standard Library.  The Indexed
    Packages.  The Cheese Shop.  Bit Torrent.  Much else--that is,
    far more than any one person can digest:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/da095d94c77fe2c7/

    Windows demands a developer rely on poorly-documented tricks
    in order to be productive.  What *are* those tricks?  IPython,
    autoit, ...:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3c6f3201a61d41f0/

    Most Python programmers live happily without thought of what
    codecs do for them.  If you're among the few for whom charmap
    performance is an issue, though, you'll be thankful to Tony
    Nelson for this Fastcharmap contribution:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/481fda74e4c69dc/

    Do you want to iterate over the same iterable multiple times?
    There's help (itertool's tee(), for example) for your sort:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/77def05340a81dec/

    Jeff Epler and Peter Otten explain the very first step--often
    the most puzzling one--in working with other-than-English texts:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5b9e46bbc66e19f8/
	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ee3feda62cfe42cd/


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
    absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
    much of the universe of Pybloggers.
	http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
        http://www.planetpython.org/
        http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
    tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
    Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
    list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/ (requires subscription)
  http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=python-url+group:comp.lang.python*&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python
There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.


From michaelschneider at fuse.net  Fri Oct 14 11:41:02 2005
From: michaelschneider at fuse.net (Michael Schneider)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:41:02 -0400
Subject: Problems with properties
Message-ID: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>

Hello All,

I have been working on learning how to use python properties.

The get property access is working, but the the set
property is not working.

Rather then dispatching the property assignment to setNothing, the
property object is being replaced with a string.

I must be doing something very stupid here.

Could someone please point out my error, I have dents in my forehead
for this one.

Thanks,
Mike



------------------------------------------------------------------

from unittest import TestCase
import unittest


class Task:
   def __init__(self,command):
     self._command = command

   def setNothing(self, value):
     raise AttributeError

   def getCommand(self):
     return self._command

   command=property(getCommand, setNothing)


class taskTest(TestCase):

     def testTask(self):
         t = Task("dir c:")
         c = t.command
         self.assertEquals("dir c:", c)

         # should fail, but doesn't
         t.command = "foo Bar"

         self.assertEquals("dir c:", t.command)



if __name__ == "__main__":
     unittest.main()


From iminal4 at netscape.net  Wed Oct 19 07:49:40 2005
From: iminal4 at netscape.net (iminal)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 04:49:40 -0700
Subject: A little help with time calculations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2241.1129707756.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2225.1129658853.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129670245.463881.317270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2241.1129707756.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129722580.470171.161220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

thanks



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:00:46 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:00:46 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
Message-ID: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
	// this will store the result in a Python object
	PyObject *finalResult;

	// get arguments from Python
	char *result = 0;
	char *in= 0;
    	char *aString = 0;
	char *bString = 0;
	MY_NUM *a;
	MY_NUM *b;
	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
	if (!ok) return 0;

	// do work to get a and b
	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));

	// make function call, which returns a char *
	result = doStuff(in, a, b);

	// save result in Python string
	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);

	// free memory
	PyMem_Free(result);
	PyMem_Free(a);
	PyMem_Free(b);

	// return the result as a Python string
	return finalResult;
}

...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
problem
so i know its gotta be my wrapper.

Any ideas?  Thanks!



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 29 02:48:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 08:48:18 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net>
	<3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net> <864q70evci.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djv5vk$hmn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> Did you do timings on it vs. mmap? Having to copy the data multiple
> times to deal with the overlap - thanks to strings being immutable -
> would seem to be a lose, and makes me wonder how it could be faster
> than mmap in general.

if you use "mmap" to read large files sequentially, without calling "madvise",
the system may try to keep old pages around just in case, and won't do as
much read-ahead as it can do.  if you're low on memory, that means that
the system may waste some time swapping out data for other applications,
rather than throwing away data that you know that you will never look at
again.

if you have reasonably large files and you're not running on an overcrowded
machine, this is usually not a problem.

(does Python's mmap module support madvise, btw?  doesn't look like it does...)

</F>





From lassevk at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 05:57:31 2005
From: lassevk at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 02:57:31 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <1128419720.504389.323330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<43424bee$0$38666$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1128419720.504389.323330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128419851.051846.90030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ok, when re-reading my post it seems that I'm saying that Python has no
roadmap. That was not my intent. I meant projects other than Python,
even though the problems I got with 2.4.2 is real, I suspect there's
something in Komodo that is the problem since I can run all my python
programs with 2.4.2 without problems, just not in Komodo.

I'll go wash my mouth now :P



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 14:16:03 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 04:16:03 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1796.1128872448.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 17:39:23 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> only if you're obsessed with CPython implementation details.

No. I'm obsessed with finding out what closures are, since nobody seems to
have a good definition of them!

However, I have learnt some things: closures are something which functions
HAVE, not ARE. The func_closure attribute is just part of the
implementation of the closure. Some languages have closures and some
don't. And a closure is something that lets a function object access the
lexical scope that existed when the function object was created, e.g. the
namespace of the function which created it.

Am I getting there now?


-- 
Steven
who is very grateful for the time folks have taken to explain this.



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 17 17:18:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:18:03 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86k6gbzvuc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:17:03 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
>> Yup. When NS was the 800 lb gorilla 
> When was this? When did Netscape have a monopoly in any market?

Starting with the release of Netscape 1.0, until MS decided to take it
away from them. At one time they owned 95%+ of the browser market. It
was standard practice at that time for web sites to be designed for -
and only work properly with - NS; questions asked on the wwww groups
were routinely answered with solutions that only worked in NS;
"cross-platform" testing meant making sure your pages worked in NS on
both the Mac and Windows.

> Netscape was never the 800 lb gorilla.

You're wrong.

>> on they acted like MS, 
> When did Netscape executives perjure themselves in court?
> When did Netscape commit fraud? Astro-turfing? Patent infringement? Theft
> of code?

As I already stated, Netscape wasn't as good at the game as MS.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From maxx at easynews.com  Fri Oct  7 18:14:36 2005
From: maxx at easynews.com (maxx at easynews.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:14:36 -0400
Subject: Contest snub?
Message-ID: <kosdk1pcvhcsu7cs2mfjpmgpaf5kthk6pi@4ax.com>

Notice anything strange here? The Python entry seems to have edged the PHP
entries, but is not declared the victor. Source is missing as well (the archive
is empty.) 

http://www.apress.com/promo/fractal/seesource.html

Hmmmm... an irrational fear of snakes perhaps?



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 14:54:36 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 20:54:36 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <434779F1.9080508@designaproduct.biz>
	<20051008172825.77615.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <di94lb$jd7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dave wrote:

> Yes, I would like to know how many internal string operations are done inside
> the Python interpreter.

when you're doing what?

how do you define "internal string operations", btw?

</F> 





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Oct  6 17:05:29 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 14:05:29 -0700
Subject: New Python book
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051005150954.0741e1d0@rcblue.com>
	<mailman.1576.1128556539.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43452f51$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <di43ip$ggg$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <43452f51$1 at nntp0.pdx.net>,
Scott David Daniels  <scott.daniels at acm.org> wrote:
>
>You could ask over on comp.lang.python.education 

comp.lang.python.education is a rogue newsgroup; it won't appear on many
newsservers.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 31 23:58:57 2005
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:58:57 -0600
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2750.1130795789.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2744.1130787080.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130789205.862429.10090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051031220841.GF2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
	<mailman.2750.1130795789.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0510312251480.12174@lackingtalent.com>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, Micah Elliott wrote:

> On Oct 31, Micah Elliott wrote:
>> Now I need to go beautify my collection.  :-)
>
> While a fun exercise, there are probably already dozens (or
> thousands?) of utilities in existence that do this and much more.

Seconded. I initially considered writing a script to rename a huge pile of 
MP3 files, but halfway through, I thought, "there's *got* to be a better 
way". I found this app: http://www.softpointer.com/tr.htm

Bought it the next day. Holy crap, what a gigantic timesaver. It looks up 
albums based on track lengths, downloads titles from freedb and Amazon, 
does ID3 tagging, renaming, moves files into separate directories... I 
busted through about 20 gigs of MP3s in three days. I kid you not.

If this is just a fun toy Python project, don't let me discourage you, but 
if you have more than a handful of albums to rename, trust me. This 
problem has been solved.

Here's a list of apps, including Tag&Rename, that can query freedb:
http://www.freedb.org/freedb_aware_apps.php

-- 
  .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] ]:.
   \\ "who will clean out my Inbox after I'm dead[?]" - charles petzold


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:58:32 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:58:32 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
	<pjhhk1p0lqtduekojm7er9i6g84fjef12n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.58.31.760233@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:40:55 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with formatted text. You are confusing
> formatted text with spam.

No. YOU are confusing HTML email (broken, dangerous, bad) with formatted
text (maybe good, maybe bad). 

I've hated HTML emails well before I received my first spam. I still hate
it, long after I've got my spam problem under control.

If and when somebody comes up with a non-broken, non-dangerous way of
allowing formatting in emails, I'll consider it. But HTML is not and never
will be that format.

-- 
Steven.



From simon at arrowtheory.com  Mon Oct 24 22:23:41 2005
From: simon at arrowtheory.com (Simon Burton)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 19:23:41 -0700
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130207021.408597.322950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Yes!

I do this a lot when i have deeply nested function calls
a->b->c->d->e
and need to pass args  to the deep function without changing the
middle functions.

In this situation I think i would prefer this variation:

class Context(dict):
  def __init__(self,**kwds):
    dict.__init__(self,kwds)
  def __getattr__(self, name):
    return self.__getitem__(name)
  def __setattr__(self, name, value):
    self.__setitem__(name, value)
  def __delattr__(self, name):
    self.__delitem__(name)

def foo(ctx):
   print ctx.color, ctx.size, ctx.shape

foo( Context(color='red', size='large', shape='ball') )


This is looking like foo should be a method of Context now,
but in my situation foo is already a method of another class.

Simon.



From graham.fawcett at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 16:33:30 2005
From: graham.fawcett at gmail.com (Graham  Fawcett)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 13:33:30 -0700
Subject: MS Word Outline -> reStructuredText script?
In-Reply-To: <1129319634.407351.27080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129319634.407351.27080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129322010.339492.319420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Jim wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using reStructuredText as a format for some group documentation,
> and often my co-workers take notes during meetings in Word's outline
> mode.  Does anyone already have a python script that will convert from
> Word (or the Open Office file format version of a word document) to
> reStructured Text?

I don't have a script; but if you have to roll your own, you might
consider having your colleagues save their Word documents in XML
format. Office 2003, and perhaps slightly earlier versions, do this.
Then you can "simply" parse the XML and transform it into anything you
like, including a reST document.

If you cannot convince them, then you could also have your script
automate Word, via win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application'), and do
the save-as-XML yourself before parsing the generated XML. At the end
of the day, I think this would be easier than, e.g., trying to use
win32com to traverse the document's object model.

Graham



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 14:04:08 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:04:08 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djr3mn$ekm$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <djr4ql$cid$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John Gordon" <gordon at panix.com> wrote in message 
news:djr3mn$ekm$1 at reader2.panix.com...

> In <djr2no$bto$1 at nntp.webmaster.com> "David Schwartz" 
> <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     What is an "illegal monopoly"?

> A monopoly that acts in certain ways, abusing its monopoly power.  There's
> nothing inherently illegal about having a monopoly; it only becomes 
> illegal
> when you abuse the power.

    That's just not true. When you abuse the power, the abuse itself is 
illegal, but it doesn't make the monopoly itself illegal. This is like 
saying a person who uses his bat to hit people has an "illegal bat".

    When you say "it only become illegal", you are just being vague. Nothing 
becomes illegal. The abuse is illegal, but it never was legal.

    DS




From ajikoe at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 04:37:49 2005
From: ajikoe at gmail.com (ajikoe at gmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 01:37:49 -0700
Subject: how to make this code faster
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1987.1129185081.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1987.1129185081.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129192669.716031.269340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hello,

I found that scipy only works with python 2.3 or?

I don't know if the logic is correct:
1. loop inside loop uses a lot of resources
2. Numeric or Numpy can make program faster
3. It use kind of Array/Matrix analysis style
4. We have to change our algorithms so that Numeric or Numpy can help
us, Matrix style

Best Regards,
pujo



From bonono at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 20:15:15 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 17:15:15 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1129853715.441205.322480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I don't think you really need to give to much time in weighting between
python or Ruby. Both are fine. But Python has the obvious advantage
that it has much more modules than Ruby so many things you don't need
to implement if you have real work to do.

I recommend you give haskell a shot if you are "in" to programming
because it makes you think differently, not necessary better(at least
not all the time) but helps.

I am not sure your intention but I think there isn't a one language
fits all situation here. I frequently use the following:

C/C++ - for linux kernel hacking etc., many library out there still use
it
python - generic stuff
SQL - nothing beats it for many business apps
haskell - a language to train my brain
javascript - Web front end

other than haskell and SQL, the others are more or less the same to me
so getting familiar with them is not too difficult.

Amol Vaidya wrote:
> I've done a lot of studying on my own, and taken the classes that my
> high-school offers. I feel that I have a fairly good understanding of Java,
> and basic OO concepts due to that. I've created some semi-complex programs
> in java, in my opinion, such as networked checkers, 8-player blackjack, a
> space-shooter type game, a copy of mario (one level, anyway), and some other
> stuff. I've also done a bit of studying on C. I've done a few projects in C,
> including another space-shooter type of game using SDL, an IRC client and
> some simple database-type programs. I also gave a shot at assembly using
> NASM for x86 before, but didn't get too far. I wrote some trivial code --
> wrote to the video buffer, played with some bios interrupts, stuff like
> that. The only thing I did in assembly was create a program that loads at
> boot-up, and loads another program that just reiterates whatever you type
> in. I only did that because I was curious. That's about as far as my
> programming knowledge/experience goes.
>
> Well, I'm not sure what you mean by programming concepts. I'm familiar with
> OO through Java, and procedural programming through C. I'd be more detailed,
> but I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. Sorry.
>
> I have no idea what Scheme is, but I'll cettainly look it up as soon as I'm
> done writing this.
>
> I've never given Perl a shot. It was another language I considered learning,
> but my father's friend told me to go with Python or Ruby.
> 
> Thanks for your help. Hopefully I wasn't too lengthy in this post.



From free.condiments at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 18:35:41 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 15:35:41 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130019099.772664.103360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1130018433.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130019099.772664.103360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130020541.862804.232650@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

This can be suitably applied to Python with the use of Higher Order
Functions, though. It's not quite the Ruby version because Python
allows you to use functions as first-class objects, complicating the
All-You-Can-Do-Is-Pass-A-Message philosophy. This is my 5-minute
implementation:


class HigherOrderList(list):

    def do(self, func):
        return HigherOrderList(each(self, func))

    def where(self, pred):
        return HigherOrderList(mass_test(self, pred))

def mass_test(iterable, pred):
    for item in iterable:
        if pred(item):
            yield item

def each(iterable, method):
    for item in iterable:
        yield method(item)



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct  6 13:42:27 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:42:27 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of values...
Message-ID: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

I need to merge several sources of values into one stream of values. All 
of the sources are sorted already and I need to retrieve the values from 
them all in sorted order.

In other words:
s1 = [10, 20, 30, 40, 50]
s2 = [15, 25]
s3 = [17, 27, 37]

for value in ???(s1, s2, s3):
     print value

will print out 10, 15, 17, 20, 25, 27, 30, 37, 40, 50 in that order.

The sources are cursors retrieving data from several databases, not from 
the same server, and there's a potential for a large number of rows from 
several of the sources. As such, any method that would load it all into 
memory and sort it is no good as it would too much memory.

Is there a function or whatnot in Python that will do what I want? I 
have come up with my own method but since it uses generators I'm not 
sure how much overhead there is. Additionally, since the values 
retrieved from the cursors will be dictionaries of "fieldname":value 
pairs, the method would either need to handle that construct (and be 
told what fieldname to sort on), or be able to take a function object to 
use for the comparison operation.

Basically, I'll use my own function for this unless someone can point me 
to something that is already available. Couldn't seem to find anything 
in the builtin modules but I didn't find glob.glob when I was looking 
for how to find filenames either so who knows what it's called :)

Since I need to deal with a variable list of sources (that is, 2 in one 
application, 3 in another and 4-5 in a third), a simple 2-source method 
isn't enough but if it's better than what I do for 2 sources then I can 
make a wrapper for it, since that's what I do anyway.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct 29 09:17:25 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:17:25 -0000
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de> <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-29, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:
>>>>>> "g.franzkowiak" <g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de> (gf) wrote:
>
>>gf> If starts a process with popen2.popen3('myprogram') and myprogram.exe is
>>gf>  running before, I've a connection to the second process, not to the first.
>>gf> I can find the process by name before I start a process with popen2...,
>>gf> but how bcan I connect t this process with a pipe ?
>
> You have to use a named pipe.

That would require that the application know about the named
pipe and open it.  I don't think there is any way to swap a
pipe in for stdin/stdout once a process is running.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  NOW, I'm supposed
                                  at               to SCRAMBLE two, and HOLD
                               visi.com            th' MAYO!!


From http  Sun Oct  9 17:51:26 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 14:51:26 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ville Voipio <vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi> writes:
> The software should be running continously for 
> practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
> Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
> leak-free enough to achieve this?

I would say give the app the heaviest stress testing that you can
before deploying it, checking carefully for leaks and crashes.  I'd
say that regardless of the implementation language.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 06:22:36 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:22:36 +0200
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><1130055226.967456.266220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><mailman.2432.1130059481.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130061421.835890.156890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djfo9d$o5r$1@sea.gmane.org>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

> Thank you Fredrik Lundh for showing everybody that indeed lot of people
> feel the need of such function in Python too.

you seem to be missing the point: all those versions are highly optimized,
and tuned for the specific use-cases.  a generic flatten would be useless
in all three cases.

</F>





From simon at arrowtheory.com  Mon Oct 24 20:33:50 2005
From: simon at arrowtheory.com (Simon Burton)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 17:33:50 -0700
Subject: how to use new AST goodies
Message-ID: <1130200430.365124.211950@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

i've just found out that the ast-branch has been merged into the main
python cvs.
** Woohoo ! **
I'd like to experiment with this, does anyone know where to start ?
It seems that the parser module still produces the same junk as before.
So where do we find these nice high level AST objects ?

thanks,

Simon.



From suman.karumuri at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 01:29:33 2005
From: suman.karumuri at gmail.com (suman.karumuri at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 22:29:33 -0700
Subject: Parser suggestion
In-Reply-To: <87ek77k4m1.fsf@ieee.org>
References: <87ek77k4m1.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1129094973.866150.301290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Take a look at PLY.
There is an example lexer in the download for parsing fortran.



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 25 13:23:53 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 17:23:53 GMT
Subject: Weird import behavior
References: <1130260282.027302.49370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96FABB2481DB9duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Tommytrojan wrote:

> import string
> import os
> 
> class T:
>     def __init__(self):
>         try:
>             print 'xxx nothing to do'
>         except ImportError:
>             print 'got an import error'
>             import os as string
> 
>         print 'xxxx string module', string
> 
> t=T()
> 
> 
> The import clause in the except statement (although never executed)
> removes the reference to the string module imported at the beginning of
> the script. Any idea why this is the case? 

Quoting the error message would have made the answer instantly clear to 
everyone, including probably yourself:

   UnboundLocalError: local variable 'string' referenced before assignment

Assigning to the variable 'string' anywhere in the function makes it a 
local variable throughout the function. Use 'global string' if you want the 
import to affect the global variable.


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Thu Oct  6 08:03:06 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:03:06 GMT
Subject: /usr/bin/env python, force a version
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1600.1128599078.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1600.1128599078.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_n81f.14624$BS3.663683@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> manatlan at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> I've got a trouble, and i think that anybody there can help me
>>
>> I've got a python script which i distribute in somes packages for *nix.
>> This script is full of python and need python 2.4 ! And i'd like to
>> display a message when the user doesn't have a python2.4 version.
>>  
>>
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.version
> '2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]'

Yes, but the problem is also that Debian (not only Sid, but also stable
and testing) has python 2.4 but it is not the default, i.e.
/usr/bin/python is a symlink to /usr/bin/python2.3 even if
/usr/bin/python2.4 is available to.

It would be nice if there was a general way to specify that a script
should be interpreted by python2.4, even if it is not the default, in a
way that works on all platforms. But I don't see how that should work.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Mon Oct 24 08:06:39 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:36:39 +0530
Subject: Small utility program for the windows
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1DA0@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


Hi,
I am trying to create a small utility program which would be configured
in registry. Something like this
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\ShortCut\command]
@="\"python C:\\workspace\\python\\Tut\\ShortCut.py\""


It gives me access denied exception when I try it.
Can anyone help me out.
Following is the code

from Tkinter import *
import sys

class BaseClass(Frame):
    def __init__(self, master=None):
        Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.grid()
        self.createWidget()
    def createWidget(self):
        self.text=Text(self, width=20, height=3)
        self.text.grid(row=0,column=0)
        Button(self, text="ok", command=self.addText).grid(row=1,
column=0)
    def addText(self):
        print "hello world"

baseClass=BaseClass()
print sys.argv[0]
for i in range(0, len(sys.argv)):
    print sys.argv[i]
baseClass.mainloop()



I have to modify the code further so that it takes argument.

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct 17 18:27:21 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:27:21 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F2A997EF4CDcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<khz4f.25000$pJ3.1035408@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F1E46CEDEE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DIL4f.25340$f21.601178@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F2A997EF4CDcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <dzV4f.25783$a_2.634978@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

John Bokma wrote:
> Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> 
>>John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>>Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>
>>>>But that's not the point; the point is that they have the choice. 
>>>>If MS had it its way, they wouldn't have that choice.
>>>
>>>
>>>I doubt that. But even if you're right, do you really think that MS
>>>is the only evil company on earth working like this? Do you really
>>>think that companies like Disney, Sony, Intel, AMD, Apple, etc work
>>>any different?
>>
>>No, I do not think that MS is the only company that uses shady
>>tactics. Also I didn't use the word 'evil', since I think it is too
>>strong for what even MS does. But the fact is that MS is convicted for
>>abusing its monopoly position.
> 
> 
> If just one got convicted it means that some got away with it, and still
> am. 

I'm not going to answer this one anymore. Other companies use shady
tactics too, I already said that, but we're talking about MS now.

>>>>Thousands and thousands of website work perfectly in all of the
>>>>aforementioned websites right now.
>>>
>>>Maybe you define perfectly different then me, but have a look at the 
>>>Acid tests for example. Even between minor versions of for example 
>>>Firefox, or Opera there are differences in rendering. I won't call
>>>that perfectly, but maybe because I am a programmer.
>>
>>Differences in rendering are perfectly acceptable on the World Wide
>>Web. 
> 
> 
> Not the differences I am talking about. There is ambiguity in for
> example the CSS working drafts (or recommendations, too lazy to check
> their current state). Maybe check out what the acid test is (actually
> there are two IIRC). Also, wonder why if the differences I am talking
> about are "perfectly acceptable" why some are fixed between different
> versions (e.g. Opera). 

I know what the ACID test is. I also know that we're talking about the
browser wars and that those date from long before the ACID tests were
created.

>>>Others just pick Intel, because it's Intel. The same is happening for
>>>MS. People just buy MS, they don't care that it's cheaper (or maybe 
>>>"cheaper") to install Linux + OpenOffice (for example). MS, so it's 
>>>good.
>>
>>Popularity is not the same as quality.
> 
> 
> Did I state such a thing?

That's what I gathered from "People just buy MS, ... . MS, so it's
good." Maybe I misunderstood, in which case I apologize. Still, doesn't
matter since it also is completely besides the point.

> Moreover, quality doesn't (in general) sell in
> this world. If you think so, wake up.

I'm very well aware of that.

> Or do you really consider the Linux desktop (any of them) quality? 

Actually yes. Are they better than MS's desktop? Depends on one's needs.
If I didn't need MS for my job, there's a very big chance I would only
use Linux. Or MacOS X.

>>I still fail to see your point. The original issue was the browser
>>wars. Tim Roberts wondered why Microsoft went through the efforst of
>>dominating the browser market, even if they don't make any money on
>>IE. David Schwartz gave the answer: MS did it to prevent the OS from
>>becoming a commodity, since that would allow users to freely choose
>>their own OS.
> 
> 
> *the* answer? LOL. I doubt it, since David's *the answer* isn't
> happening. As I asked in another reply: can you name several companies
> MS acquired to justify their fears of a major paradigm shift towards
> notworking computing? 

I read that other reply of yours, and David's reply to it. He replied
much better than I could have done, but I agree with what he said so
I'll just refer to his reply.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 11:28:13 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 08:28:13 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2068.1129299882.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129303693.449162.79960@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Something to consider when writing cross-platform applications with any
gui toolkit is that it never works out of the box. Despite what they
might promise you.

If you have yourself access to a Windows, Linux and Mac OS X computer,
you probably won't have any problem to make it fully cross-platform. If
you work on Windows, but don't have a Mac, than you will have a hard
time, if not almost impossible when you write complex applications.

I've tried all python gui toolkits and my conclusion was for small
applications that are distributed as python source use Tkinter,
otherwise wxPython. Arguments are:
- very supportive community (wxPython mailing lists, just ask a
question and everybody helps you out in no time)
- native, professional look & feel
- best licensing for all platforms (commercial use allowed)
- very rich widget set, continuously extended by the community
  (see eg. widgets from Andrea Gavana
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/infinity77/eng/freeware.html)
- wxGlade makes GUI design really easy
  (http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/)

Stani

http://pythonide.stani.be (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)



From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 10 18:25:54 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:25:54 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <861x2t2m7s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<861x2t2m7s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <3r083iFh53h7U1@uni-berlin.de>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
> 
>>I agree that there are many shades of grey here, but there's also a
>>real black that's sharply distinct and easy to find -- real native
>>code binaries are not interpreted.
> 
> 
> Except when they are. Many machines are microcoded, which means your
> "real native code binary" is interpreted by a microcode program stored
> in the control store. Most machines don't have a writeable control
> store (WCS), so you generally can't change the interpreter, but that's
> not always true. In the simple case, a WCS lets the vendor fix
> "hardware" bugs by providing a new version of the microcode. In the
> extreme cases, you get OS's in which the control store is part of the
> process state, so different processes can have radically different
> formats for their "native code binaries".
> 
> Then there's the Nanodata QM-1, whose microcode was interpreted by
> "nanocode".

Or the transmeta processor, that emulated x86 ops.
Diez


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Wed Oct 19 21:44:00 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:44:00 -0400
Subject: Upper/lowercase regex matching in unicode
References: <mailman.2278.1129760598.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129772640.0bb78237f73a16f8af46ac6825a7115b@teranews>

"Jason Stitt" <jason at pengale.com> wrote:

> What's the best way to match uppercase or lowercase characters with a
> regular expression in a unicode-aware way? Obviously [A-Z] and [a-z]
> aren't going to cut it. I thought there were character classes of the
> form ::upper:: or similar syntax, but can't find them in the docs.
> Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with Perl regexen.
>
> The upper() and lower() methods do work on accented characters in a
> unicode string, so there has to be some recognition of unicode case
> in there somewhere.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason

http://tinyurl.com/7jqgt

George




From sharidas at zeomega.com  Mon Oct 10 01:51:29 2005
From: sharidas at zeomega.com (Satchidanand Haridas)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:21:29 +0530
Subject: best Pythonic way to do this sort: Python newb
In-Reply-To: <ABm2f.3394$gj1.2075@fed1read05>
References: <rQl2f.3390$gj1.199@fed1read05>	<7xbr1y9e1c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ABm2f.3394$gj1.2075@fed1read05>
Message-ID: <434A0161.20601@zeomega.com>


----
Satchidanand Haridas (sharidas at zeomega dot com)

ZeOmega (www.zeomega.com)
Open  Minds' Open Solutions



Sean Berry wrote:

>"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message 
>news:7xbr1y9e1c.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
>  
>
>>"Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> writes:
>>    
>>
>>>myList = [[value1, value2, value3],[value1, value2, value3], ...]
>>>
>>>I have a function which takes value3 from the lists above and returns
>>>another value.  I want to use this returned value to sort the lists.
>>>
>>>So, my resultant list would be ordered by the return value of the
>>>function with value3 as its argument.
>>>
>>>From a relative Python newb, what is the best way to do this?
>>>      
>>>
>>def get_key(x): return x[2]
>>sorted_list = sorted(myList, key=get_key)
>>    
>>
>
>Sorry if I am missing something.  But. what is sorted here?
>
>My simplified function looks like this
>
>def myFunction( myNumber ):
>    "do some math calculations to myNumber"
>    return "result of calculations"
>
>So, I want to sort myList by the return of myFunction( value3 )
>
>I tried doing the following... with no luck so far
>myList.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(myFunction(x[2]), myFunction(y[2]))
>
>  
>
I think the above statement should be as follows:

myList.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(myFunction(x[2]) - myFunction(y[2]))



hope that helps.

regards,
Satchit


From sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 17:28:36 2005
From: sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 14:28:36 -0700
Subject: tkinter blues (greens, reds, ...)
In-Reply-To: <dpu8f.214915$p_1.133627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1130519159.921821.164420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2684.1130523517.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dpu8f.214915$p_1.133627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130534916.236147.314810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

i'm using the canned colors ("pink", "orange", etc). should i try
changing to explicit color specifications to see if that makes a
difference? i'm not sure what the other guy meant by a "soft toy", but
i take it the idea is to try and construct a correctness proof for the
script, and see what keeps it (the proof) from working. it's a sound
idea, of course, but the script is pretty darn straightforward, as you
can see (below). anyway, i'll let you know how it turns out.

peace

############################


green  = 'green'

orange = 'orange'

pink   = 'pink'

yellow = 'yellow'

red    = 'red'

blue   = 'blue'



fb = 'frontback'

ud = 'updown'

lr = 'leftright'



def select(x,a,b): return b[a.index(x)]

def frontback(orientation): return
select(orientation,[fb,ud,lr],[fb,lr,ud])

def updown(orientation): return
select(orientation,[fb,ud,lr],[lr,ud,fb])

def leftright(orientation): return
select(orientation,[fb,ud,lr],[ud,fb,lr])



class cell:

    def __init__(self, circlecolor, pointercolor, orientation,
coordinates):

        self.circlecolor  = circlecolor

        self.pointercolor = pointercolor

        self.orientation  = orientation

        self.coordinates  = coordinates

    def endpoint(self):

        a,b = self.coordinates

        if self.orientation==fb:

            if abs(a)==1: return [2*a,2*b]

            if abs(a)==2: return [a/2,b/2]

        if self.orientation==ud: return [+a,-b]

        if self.orientation==lr: return [-a,+b]



class cube:

    def __init__(self):

        self.ful = cell(green,  blue, fb, [-2,+2])

        self.fur = cell(orange, blue, fb, [+2,+2])

        self.fdl = cell(pink,   blue, fb, [-2,-2])

        self.fdr = cell(yellow, blue, fb, [+2,-2])

        self.bul = cell(green,  red,  fb, [-1,+1])

        self.bur = cell(orange, red,  fb, [+1,+1])

        self.bdl = cell(pink,   red,  fb, [-1,-1])

        self.bdr = cell(yellow, red,  fb, [+1,-1])

        self.cells =
[self.ful,self.fur,self.fdl,self.fdr,self.bul,self.bur,self.bdl,self.bdr]

    def redraw(self,*cells):

        for x in cells:

            A = x.coordinates

            B = x.endpoint()

            erase(*A)

            drawpointer(color=x.pointercolor,*(A+B))

            drawcircle(color=x.circlecolor,*A)

    def display(self):

        self.redraw(*self.cells)

    def cycle(self,a,b,c,d,funct):

        x = d.circlecolor

        y = d.pointercolor

        z = funct(d.orientation)

        d.circlecolor  = c.circlecolor

        d.pointercolor = c.pointercolor

        d.orientation  = funct(c.orientation)

        c.circlecolor  = b.circlecolor

        c.pointercolor = b.pointercolor

        c.orientation  = funct(b.orientation)

        b.circlecolor  = a.circlecolor

        b.pointercolor = a.pointercolor

        b.orientation  = funct(a.orientation)

        a.circlecolor  = x

        a.pointercolor = y

        a.orientation  = z





rubik = cube()



def F1_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.ful,rubik.fur,rubik.fdr,rubik.fdl,frontback)

def F2_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.fdl,rubik.fdr,rubik.fur,rubik.ful,frontback)

def B1_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.bdl,rubik.bdr,rubik.bur,rubik.bul,frontback)

def B2_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.bul,rubik.bur,rubik.bdr,rubik.bdl,frontback)



def U1_(): rubik.cycle(rubik.bul,rubik.bur,rubik.fur,rubik.ful,updown)

def U2_(): rubik.cycle(rubik.ful,rubik.fur,rubik.bur,rubik.bul,updown)


def D1_(): rubik.cycle(rubik.bdl,rubik.bdr,rubik.fdr,rubik.fdl,updown)

def D2_(): rubik.cycle(rubik.fdl,rubik.fdr,rubik.bdr,rubik.bdl,updown)



def L1_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.ful,rubik.bul,rubik.bdl,rubik.fdl,leftright)

def L2_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.fdl,rubik.bdl,rubik.bul,rubik.ful,leftright)

def R1_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.fur,rubik.bur,rubik.bdr,rubik.fdr,leftright)

def R2_():
rubik.cycle(rubik.fdr,rubik.bdr,rubik.bur,rubik.fur,leftright)



def F1(): F1_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.ful,rubik.fur,rubik.fdr,rubik.fdl)

def F2(): F2_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.fdl,rubik.fdr,rubik.fur,rubik.ful)

def B1(): B1_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.bdl,rubik.bdr,rubik.bur,rubik.bul)

def B2(): B2_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.bul,rubik.bur,rubik.bdr,rubik.bdl)

def U1(): U1_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.bul,rubik.bur,rubik.fur,rubik.ful)

def U2(): U2_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.ful,rubik.fur,rubik.bur,rubik.bul)

def D1(): D1_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.bdl,rubik.bdr,rubik.fdr,rubik.fdl)

def D2(): D2_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.fdl,rubik.fdr,rubik.bdr,rubik.bdl)

def L1(): L1_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.ful,rubik.bul,rubik.bdl,rubik.fdl)

def L2(): L2_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.fdl,rubik.bdl,rubik.bul,rubik.ful)

def R1(): R1_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.fur,rubik.bur,rubik.bdr,rubik.fdr)

def R2(): R2_(); rubik.redraw(rubik.fdr,rubik.bdr,rubik.bur,rubik.fur)



def solve():

    rubik.__init__()

    rubik.display()



def scramble():

    n = 15

    from random import randint

    f = [F1_,F2_,B1_,B2_,U1_,U2_,D1_,D2_,L1_,L2_,R1_,R2_]

    for i in range(n): f[randint(0,11)]()

    rubik.display()



canvaswidth = 380

canvasheight = 330



def coordinates(x,y): return (canvaswidth/2+68*x),(canvasheight/2-68*y)



def drawcircle(x,y,color):

    r = (20,15)[abs(x)==1]

    a,b = coordinates(x,y)

    canvas.create_oval(a-r,b-r,a+r,b+r,fill=color)



def drawpointer(x1,y1,x2,y2,color):

    a1,b1 = coordinates(x1,y1)

    a2,b2 = coordinates(float(x1+x2)/2,float(y1+y2)/2)

    canvas.create_line(a1,b1,a2,b2,width=2,fill=color,arrow=LAST)



def erase(x,y):

    a,b = coordinates(x,y)

    p = canvas.find_overlapping(a-10,b-10,a+10,b+10)

    q = [x for x in p if canvas.type(x) in ('oval','line')]

    for x in q: canvas.delete(x)



def drawbackground():

    A = coordinates(+1,+1)

    B = coordinates(+1,-1)

    C = coordinates(-1,+1)

    D = coordinates(-1,-1)

    E = coordinates(+2,+2)

    F = coordinates(+2,-2)

    G = coordinates(-2,+2)

    H = coordinates(-2,-2)

    canvas.create_polygon(fill='',outline='black',*(C+A+E+G+C))

    canvas.create_polygon(fill='',outline='black',*(C+G+H+D+C))

    canvas.create_polygon(fill='',outline='black',*(A+E+F+B+A))

    canvas.create_polygon(fill='',outline='black',*(H+F+B+D+H))



from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

########################################################

back = Frame(root,borderwidth=3)

back.pack(side=TOP)

Button(back,text='<<<<',command=B1).pack(side=LEFT)

Label(back,width=10,text='BACK').pack(side=LEFT)

Button(back,text='>>>>',command=B2).pack(side=LEFT)

########################################################

top = Frame(root,borderwidth=3)

top.pack(side=TOP)

Button(top,text='<<<<',command=U1).pack(side=LEFT)

Label(top,width=10,text='TOP').pack(side=LEFT)

Button(top,text='>>>>',command=U2).pack(side=LEFT)

########################################################

mid = Frame(root)

mid.pack(side=TOP)

left = Frame(mid,borderwidth=5)

left.pack(side=LEFT)

Button(left,text='^\n^',width=3,command=L1).pack(side=TOP)

Label(left,height=6,text='L\nE\nF\nT').pack(side=TOP)

Button(left,text='v\nv',width=3,command=L2).pack(side=TOP)

canvas = Canvas(mid,width=canvaswidth,height=canvasheight)

canvas.pack(side=LEFT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)

right = Frame(mid,borderwidth=5)

right.pack(side=LEFT)

Button(right,text='^\n^',width=3,command=R1).pack(side=TOP)

Label(right,height=6,text='R\nI\nG\nH\nT').pack(side=TOP)

Button(right,text='v\nv',width=3,command=R2).pack(side=TOP)

########################################################

bottom = Frame(root,borderwidth=3)

bottom.pack(side=TOP)

Button(bottom,text='<<<<',command=D1).pack(side=LEFT)

Label(bottom,width=10,text='BOTTOM').pack(side=LEFT)

Button(bottom,text='>>>>',command=D2).pack(side=LEFT)

########################################################

front = Frame(root,borderwidth=3)

front.pack(side=TOP)

Button(front,text='<<<<',command=F1).pack(side=LEFT)

Label(front,width=10,text='FRONT').pack(side=LEFT)

Button(front,text='>>>>',command=F2).pack(side=LEFT)

########################################################

ctrl = Frame(root,borderwidth=20)

ctrl.pack(side=TOP)

Button(ctrl,text='SOLVE',command=solve).pack(side=LEFT)

Label(ctrl,width=3,text='').pack(side=LEFT)

Button(ctrl,text='SCRAMBLE',command=scramble).pack(side=LEFT)

########################################################

root.title('rubik')

drawbackground()

rubik.display()

root.mainloop()



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:15:12 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:15:12 -0700
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <1128607448.235410.152590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<3qkmjcFfbem9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128607448.235410.152590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di3bhh$pfg$1@sea.gmane.org>

Flavio wrote:
> Ok, its not thousands, but more like dozens of variables...
> I am reading a large form from the web which returns a lot of values.
> (I am Using cherrypy)
> 
> I know I could pass these variables around as:
> 
> def some_function(**variables):
>     ...
> 
> some_function(**variables)
> 
> but its a pain in the neck to have to refer to them as
> variables['whatever']...
> 
> dont you think? 

Use a Bunch.

class Bunch(dict):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
        dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwds)
        self.__dict__ = self

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 24 01:28:53 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:28:53 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address> <bSa5f.15276$Hm3.12093@fe09.lga>
	<m3fyqybs9s.fsf@invalid.address>
	<435ad152$17$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
	<qa6ol1thbr2gkn0g9dtne1bvhfl4mi5e5l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u6sol1ddnib8sfpl2e0hbk9u8fvc85saqb@4ax.com>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:16:24 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote or quoted :

>>As well as blame. The commercialization of the Internet was grossly
>>mismanaged. Take the InterNIC - please!
>
>As global bureaucracies go, I think they have done a good job.  Can
>you imagine herding the cats of egotistical dictators and politicians
>from every country on earth who have not a clue about what the
>function of domain are?

Imagine assigning two letter abbreviations to 200 five years olds and
getting them to accept their assignments.  That would be a much easier
task.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Fri Oct  7 08:50:19 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 12:50:19 GMT
Subject: Can Python replace TCL/Expect
References: <1128578298.778640.313900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1583.1128579857.509.python-list@python.org>
	<6ncf13-2ps.ln1@lairds.us>
	<slrndkae7r.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<bg0g13-sbv.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <slrndkcndo.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:08:03 GMT, Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.us> wrote:
> In article <slrndkae7r.2ss.jgrahn-nntq at frailea.sa.invalid>,
> Jorgen Grahn  <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
>>It depends. I do not feel /that/ advanced, but I've been bitten by pexpect's
>>limitations several times in several places.
>>
>>... which puts me in a weird position ;-) I /loathe/ the Tcl language, but I
>>have to admit that its expect functionality is far superior to Python's.
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.

> On to more constructive matters:  what are you doing about
> Pexpect's limitations?  Have the maintainers responded to you
> when you write?  Are you tempted to compose enhancements for
> yourself?

There is hobby hacking, and there is work. I've encountered pexpect during
work, and haven't had the time and energy to look into it. I hereby
apologize to the pexpect developers. Not for whining, but for not helping
out.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 10 18:46:29 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:46:29 -0700
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<861x2t2m7s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <donn-32A85B.15462910102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <861x2t2m7s.fsf at bhuda.mired.org>, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> 
wrote:

> Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
> > I agree that there are many shades of grey here, but there's also a
> > real black that's sharply distinct and easy to find -- real native
> > code binaries are not interpreted.
> 
> Except when they are. Many machines are microcoded, which means your
> "real native code binary" is interpreted by a microcode program stored
> in the control store. Most machines don't have a writeable control
> store (WCS), so you generally can't change the interpreter, but that's
> not always true. In the simple case, a WCS lets the vendor fix
> "hardware" bugs by providing a new version of the microcode. In the
> extreme cases, you get OS's in which the control store is part of the
> process state, so different processes can have radically different
> formats for their "native code binaries".
> 
> Then there's the Nanodata QM-1, whose microcode was interpreted by
> "nanocode".

Fine -- given a Python Chip computer, Python programs are
native code.  It can use microcode, if that helps.

The VAX/11 microcode was just a software extension of the
CPU hardware, implementing some extra instructions, the way
I remember it.  I don't recall that it was of any more than
academic interest to anyone using the computer - though it
may have been software in a sense, it was on the hardware
side of the wall.  On the software side of the wall, if your
program can go over the wall by itself, then it's native.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 18:23:08 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 15:23:08 -0700
Subject: Calling an exe from Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129492892.037665.123590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129492892.037665.123590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129501388.075484.138870@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Slightly offtopic, but you can translate any double clicking (*.exe,
*.pdf, *.html, ...) in the Windows Explorer into:

import os
os.startfile(fileName)

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor http://pythonide.stani.be



From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Oct 18 07:06:20 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:06:20 +0200
Subject: Question on class member in python
In-Reply-To: <1129630576.414181.276570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1129624952.836150.159520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4mjkh.163t6yf4f20krN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129630576.414181.276570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4354d70b$0$2656$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Johnny Lee a ?crit :
> Alex Martelli ???
> 
> 
>>Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But I still wonder what's the difference between the A().getMember and
>>>A().member besides the style
>>
>>Without parentheses after it, getMember is a method.  The difference
>>between a method object and an integer object (which is what member
>>itself is in your example) are many indeed, so your question is very
>>strange.  You cannot call an integer, you cannot divide methods, etc.
>>
>>
>>Alex
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didn't express myself clear to you. I mean:
> b = A().getMember()
> c = A().member
> what's the difference between b and c? If they are the same, what's the
> difference in the two way to get the value besides the style.
> 

Second form is better because it makes it easier to refactor.

Like, at first A had a direct access to the member member. But later you 
want to control the access to it. So you change it into a property and 
you don't need to change client code.


From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 20:37:15 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:37:15 -0400
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<88e3c$4359d217$d8fea545$17293@PRIMUS.CA>
	<6rsp23-s0t.ln1@rogers.com>
	<7f153$435ad0ef$d1b71608$16495@PRIMUS.CA>
Message-ID: <ri2r23-2ph.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-22, William Park wrote:
> Chris F.A. Johnson <cfajohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2005-10-22, William Park wrote:
>> > hagai26 at gmail.com <hagai26 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
>> >> in a str, like this:
>> >> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
>> >> I know I can use spilt and than join them
>> >> but I can also use regular expressions
>> >> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one
>> >
>> > I doubt you'll find faster than Sed.
>> 
>>    On the contrary; to change a string, almost anything will be faster
>>    than sed (except another external program).
>> 
>>    If you are in a POSIX shell, parameter expansion will be a lot
>>    faster.
>> 
>>    In a python program, one of the solutions already posted will be
>>    much faster.
>
> Care to put a wager on your claim?

   In a shell, certainly.

   If one of the python solutions is not faster than sed (e.g.,
   os.system("sed .....")) I'll forget all about using python.

-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Oct 10 07:19:20 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:19:20 GMT
Subject: Changing an AST
In-Reply-To: <1128941690.030540.258790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128941690.030540.258790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Y6s2f.475$_%3.97245@newshog.newsread.com>

beza1e1 wrote:
> Is it possible compiler.parse a statement, then change and then
> execute/resolve it?

This should work:


 >>> from compiler.pycodegen import ModuleCodeGenerator
 >>> from compiler.misc import set_filename
 >>> from compiler import parse
 >>>
 >>> tree = parse('foo = 42')
 >>> set_filename('<foo>', tree)
 >>> code = ModuleCodeGenerator(tree).getCode()
 >>> exec code
 >>> foo
 42

Also, if you need to turn an AST back into Python code, I have some ugly
code for doing that: <http://ecritters.biz/asttosource.py>.


From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Thu Oct 13 16:50:29 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:50:29 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <33765778-7F70-438D-8020-1FEC94CE1FA9@sbcglobal.net>
References: <33765778-7F70-438D-8020-1FEC94CE1FA9@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <200510131550.29598.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Thursday 13 October 2005 15:17, Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> 1) Which plays best with Python? Ideally, it would already have some
> higher-level python libraries to hide the grotty stuff that is almost
> never needed when actually implementing apps.

wxPython plays reasonably well.

I've just started playing with PyGTK+glade, and am highly impressed with 
that.

> 4) Ease of installation/use on OS X?

Ease of installation and use, wxPython is good. General OS X goodness, 
wxPython has been exhibiting highly weird behavior. Plus some useful 
widgets don't work well (if at all) on Mac.

wxWidgets also feels very old-Windows-ish. For example, it's built 
around having 1 toolbar for a window; for my application, that's not 
going to work so well, and I'm also having issues with some things 
related to dynamically creating toolbars and changing the toolbar.

- Michael


From tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk  Tue Oct 25 11:11:39 2005
From: tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk (Matthew Fowler)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:11:39 +0100
Subject: Errno 8 Exec format error
Message-ID: <1130253099.435e4b2b37812@webmail.sussex.ac.uk>

Hi there

I have been porting python to the Etrax platform and everything seems to
be working.

However when I run the program in question I get:

"problem with execution of xhpl  on  AxisProduct:  [Errno 8] Exec format
error"

Im looking for any help to try and solve this issue. Am I correct in
thinking that Python is reporting this problem? If so has anybody
experienced this problem before?

Thank You

Matt


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 05:25:23 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:25:23 -0700
Subject: Should i pick up Numeric, Numarray or SciPy.core?
In-Reply-To: <1129884370.881194.20420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129884370.881194.20420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djac64$cks$1@sea.gmane.org>

jelle wrote:
> #No rant intended
> 
> I'm not at all confused wether I should learn an one of the advanced
> array modules, I'm slightly confused over which I should pick up. I'm
> impressed with the efforts of SciPy and Scientific, but since I'm
> fairly new to programming & OO, choosing Numarray over Numeric hasnt
> been that satisfactory at all, which is not a problem of the quality of
> Numarray, but the fact that a lot of modules still heavily realy on
> Numeric. Which, with my fragile knowledge in programming is rather
> confusing sometimes. Since its seems its far from pragmatic to opt
> solely for either one of them. So Scipy.core looks like the ticket for
> me here, doesnt it? Before putting an effort into it, I'd like to know
> whether this would make sense, certainly since scipy.core is in its
> early stages, and documentation isnt available yet (for free that is...
> its not clear to me why I should pay for software in its early stages,
> when it extents on efforts freely available)

The software itself is absolutely free. The complete documentation for
scipy_core specifically is available for a fee, but you will get free
updates as the documentation is expanded and as soon as a certain number
of copies have been purchased or a certain amount of time has passed,
the documentation will be made available free of charge. The book does
not extend "on efforts freely available," either; it's entirely new.

However, not much has changed between Numeric and scipy_core, so most of
the Numeric documentation still applies. There is fairly good docstring
coverage in any case.

> Curious for your opinions, I definitely think the Scipy.core effort is
> terrific, but right now I'm wondering whether its a pragmatic choice.

scipy_core is the future. Most of the complete scipy package has been
ported over at the moment.

However, if you need to use other code that depends on Numeric (like
Konrad Hinsen's Scientific), then you can use Numeric for the time being
and port your code to scipy_core using the provided conversion script.
The API on the Python side hasn't changed too dramatically.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 22:57:01 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:57:01 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address> <bSa5f.15276$Hm3.12093@fe09.lga>
	<m3fyqybs9s.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <lddbl11ns8i3pdh8i7dh98e0dsufkrpfab@4ax.com>

On 18 Oct 2005 13:21:19 -0500, joe at invalid.address wrote or quoted :

>existed then.
>
>Yes, he deserves credit for what he did. He nevertheless created a
>false impression in what he said. If he hadn't created that false
>impression, there would not have been any jokes about him. If all he
>said was what he actually did, this would never have been an issue.

It is standard procedure to twist another politician's words and tease
him like a gang of 4 year olds.

Think of poor Mr. Bush.  People quote him all the time. :-)

See http://mindprod.com/politics/bushisms.html

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 08:43:14 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 05:43:14 -0700
Subject: Swig and pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1597.1128594118.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128541976.495441.46140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1597.1128594118.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128602594.608766.53440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

im sorry, why would it be md_ptr?  what is md_ptr?

i tried..
%include cpointer.i
%pointer_functions(MY_DIGIT, digit_ptr)

ptr = new_digit_ptr()
doIt("a message", ptr)
...doesnt work..still needs a DIGIT **



From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Tue Oct  4 18:32:40 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:32:40 -0500
Subject: wxPython equiv. to tag_configure
In-Reply-To: <1128456689.100365.196050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128456689.100365.196050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <daba5bb1128f5b8830a375b510041fc0@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Oct 4, 2005, at 3:11 PM, ncf wrote:
> In the wxWidgets manual, I see a wxHtmlWindow object, but nothing like
> that seems to exist when I dir() wxPython.

wxHtmlWindow is in the wx.html module.

-Michael



From robert.h.boyd at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 21:57:45 2005
From: robert.h.boyd at gmail.com (Robert Boyd)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:57:45 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <89DF2CF9-408E-4D9E-8E43-003D23006C24@pengale.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<1129776956.254389.188040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-D8075E.23012819102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<89DF2CF9-408E-4D9E-8E43-003D23006C24@pengale.com>
Message-ID: <e9e3813b0510211857q70fdebf9v6f36c36f4d17ca77@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/19/05, Jason Stitt <jason at pengale.com> wrote:

>
> How can we improve Python's competitiveness in this arena? "Pie"? Or
> can we do even better than Lua? Ptooey!

I'm sure I could really evangelize use of it at work were it called Ptooey ;)

As if Plone, Zope, and (non-Python) Shibboleth weren't getting me
enough funny looks. And I haven't even started telling co-workers
about Django.

Rob


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 15:18:40 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:18:40 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

PS: If my question is not clear, I am trying to "share" the form between the
client and server.

just as many sites out there allow you to modify existing data:
1) the server pops up a form with your data in it.
2) the client can modify it and submit.

I know this is a _basic_ question, sorry.

Philippe



Philippe C. Martin wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to change the data in a form field from python. The following
> code does not crash but has no effect as if "form" is just a copy of the
> original html form.
> 
> Must I recreate the form order to do that ?
> 
> My point is for the client to be able to re-read the modified data.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Philippe
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> import cgi
> import os
> import sys
> import logging
> import cgi
> sys.stderr = sys.stdout
> print "Content-type: text/html\n"
> try:
>     form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>     #logging.warning (form)
>     
> except:
>     logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 1")
> try:
> 
>     form['tosrv'].value = "TEST"
> except:
>     logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 2")
>     pass
> 
>     <html>
>     <body>
>     <title>Smart Logon</title>
>     <h1>Smart Logon</h1>
>     <hr>
>     <FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="/cgi-bin/scfbweb.py">
>     <table>
>     <TR><TD>
>       <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="key" VALUE="process">
>      TO SERVER:<BR>
>       <INPUT  type=text NAME="tosrv" value="TO" size=60>
>       <BR>
>       FROM SERVER<BR>
>       <INPUT type=text name="fromsrv" value="FROM" size=60>
>       <P>
>         <INPUT TYPE="SUBMIT" VALUE="START">
> 
>     </TD></TR></table>
>         </FORM>
> </body>
> </html>



From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 21:52:18 2005
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (stewart.midwinter at gmail.com)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 18:52:18 -0700
Subject: Bad magic no. in python zipfile
Message-ID: <1129168338.457437.276820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I've been experimenting with the python zipfile module, and have run
into a snag.

I'm able to create a new zipfile with the module's ZipFile class and
add files to it.  After closing the file, I'm able to view the contents
of it with WinZip.  I can also confirm that it is a python zip file by
using the is_zipfile() method.  All good so far.  However, under some
circumstances, I am unable to later read the file and extract its
contents.  As soon as a I attempt to instantiate a new ZipFile
instance, I receive an error regarding Bad Magic number.   In the past,
I've seen that when trying to use a .pyc module, created with one
Python version, using another Python version.  But in this case, I
created the zip file under Python 2.4.2 and tried to open it under
Python 2.4.2 as well.  Any ideas on what to do?  (apart from giving up
on Python and using winzip?)

On a separate topic, zipfile wasn't available under Python 1.5.2. I
need to create zip files using that old version, since it's the only
one installed on a remote server.  Any suggestions on what to do?

thanks
S



From grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 14:57:19 2005
From: grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 11:57:19 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2004.1129217662.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2004.1129217662.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129229839.857857.288180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

This is really synchronicity in action! I started to think yesterday
about putting together a project that measures the 'goodness' of Python
packages in the PyPI Cheese Shop repository. I call it the "Cheesecake"
project. I took the liberty of citing Micah's post in a blog entry that
I just posted:
<http://agiletesting.blogspot.com/2005/10/cheesecake-how-tasty-is-your-code.html>

Comments/suggestions welcome!

Grig



From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Thu Oct 20 12:13:48 2005
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:13:48 +0200
Subject: sort problem
Message-ID: <4357c22d$0$8481$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>

I have a list of lists (a grid table) that can have about 15000 - 20000
"rows" and 10 "cols", so:

1     [ [ 'aaa', 'vv', 'cc', 23, ... ],
2       [ 'aav', 'vv', 'cc', 45, ... ],
...
15000   [ 'sad', 'ad', 'es', 123, ... ], ]

I need to sort this list, but I need to specify two things: the "column"
and its type (string or int), so for example in this list, I want to
sort the fourth column that has int values. The type because that I want
that 1, 2, 12 will be sort in this order, not 1, 12, 2 like strings.

I have already tried to modify some code found on aspn, but the results
are always too slow for me, about 30-40 sec.
Can someone has some code or some point where can I start for speedup my
code?

Thanks,
Michele


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 14 01:47:30 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:47:30 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1994.1129198329.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129230950.305013.302200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dingpj$faj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Rune Strand wrote:

> I've read a lot of your comments the last years. Your friendliness
> always strikes me.

terseness != unfriendlyness

</F>





From jhu at metrigenix.com  Thu Oct  6 16:39:54 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:39:54 -0400
Subject: ctypes questions
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACB4@torexch.metrigenix.com>


Convert 

unsigned long imageSize;
Frame.pBuffer=new unsigned char[ imageSize ]

To 

buffer = (c_ubyte * imageSize)()	# create array
Frame.pBuffer = addressof(buffer)

Frame.pBuffer =  (c_ubyte * imageSize)()
TypeError: can't multiply sequence by non-int

Please help me out, thanks in advance

James


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct 10 14:25:09 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:25:09 -0500
Subject: convert char to byte representation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434AB205.8000304@websafe.com>

ord(c) gives you decimal representation of a character.

-Larry Bates

Philipp H. Mohr wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a string with
> its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a char into its byte
> representation. This is to calculate the nmea checksum for gps data.
> 
> e.g. everything between $ and * needs to be xor:
> 	$GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,40,25,51,287,00,05,25,103,44*
> to get the checksum.
> 
> 
> Thank you for you help.
> 
> Phil


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 19 23:37:47 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:37:47 -0700
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
In-Reply-To: <dj68rb$p9g$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
	<VTn5f.15916$65.429948@twister1.libero.it>
	<dj666h$hkj$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.2267.1129750956.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dj68rb$p9g$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <20051020033747.GD4541@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 19, Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> Micah Elliott napisa?(a):
> 
> >>How to install this structure eg. on Linux? What layout do you
> >>recommend? It's tempting to use /opt hierarchy for installation
> >>target (as it gives relatively much freedom within application
> >>directory), but many administrators are reluctant to use this
> >>hierarchy and prefer more standarized targets, such as /usr or
> >>/usr/local.
> > 
> > Read about (and use) the Python-provided distutils, and let it do the
> > work for you.  In particular,
> > <http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/inst/alt-install-windows.html>
> > discusses installation location.  The file name is a misnomer; it's
> > equally applicable to linux.
> 
> I think that installing *application* (not misc. library) modules in
> site-packages is at least stupid idea...

They're not.

> ...as it makes a special filesystem inside other, much more
> standarized filesystem (Windows, FHS, etc.). Why not to do this
> usual way: libraries to $prefix/lib/$appname-$version, binary to
> $prefix/bin, shared files to $prefix/share/$appname, etc -- and
> appropriately on Windows.

It is done more the FHS way than you might realize.  Assuming
sys.prefix is '/usr', then using distutils my manpages go to
'/usr/share/man', my tools/scripts that I want my users to access go
to '/usr/bin' (and I could even put my config files in '/usr/../etc'
or maybe just '/etc' but I haven't had to do that).  So only your
modules end up in '/usr/lib/python', but that seems appropriate
anyway.  It is the simplest way for '/usr/bin/python' to locate your
modules, since it already knows to look in '/usr/lib/python' for
modules.  If you put your modules in say /usr/lib/fooapp then how
would python know where to look for your modules?  You would have
users messing with something called PYTHONPATH or you would end up
with boilerplate or custom install logic to set sys.path according to
special user needs.  But why go through the trouble?  Just let
distutils do the work for you.

I don't want my users to know anything about my *modules* that end up
in /usr/lib/python or that such a thing as PYTHONPATH even exists.

If you prefer the /opt route (or /tmp or $HOME or whatever), then
distutils can create your filesystem structure beneath that
accordingly.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Oct 10 17:40:24 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:40:24 GMT
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.10.21.40.24.190776@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:29:20 -0700, dcrespo wrote:

> ?Beautiful and elegant solution!
> 
> Two copies of the password: one on the client, the other on the server.
> 
> 1. Client wants to connect
> 2. Server generates a random_alphanumeric_string and sends it to the
> client
> 3. Both Client and Server creates a hash string from
> <password+random_alphanumeric_string>
> 4. Client sends the hash string to the server
> 5. Server compares his hash result with the hash string received from
> de client.
> 
> I think it is a very good solution, Isn't it?

Sounds like it, but how is it different from what I just described?  :)

Oh, also, I'm not 100% how much the alphanumeric part impacts things.  You
may or may not get a better result by using a random string with all bits
random, not just the bits that vary in ASCII for letters and numbers.

Anyway, for an example of this sort of thing, you might look over my
fallback-reboot program at
http://dcs.nac.uci.edu/~strombrg/fallback-reboot/

It uses RIPEMD-160 for the hash.

The server side is in C (to reduce dependencies to a bare minimum), but
the client side is in python (for convenience).



From g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de  Mon Oct  3 11:48:47 2005
From: g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de (g.franzkowiak)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:48:47 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack
In-Reply-To: <dhr40d$1fo$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <dhpem5$nne$1@online.de>
	<mailman.1354.1128285272.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhpk5m$lcu$1@online.de> <dhpn42$q9o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<dhr091$3a1$1@online.de> <dhr40d$1fo$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <dhrjri$7uh$1@online.de>

Peter Otten schrieb:
> g.franzkowiak wrote:
> 
> 
>>The dataObject was read from a named pipe as an byte stream
>>
>>state, dataObject = win32file.ReadFile(handle, nbytes, None)
>>print repr(dataObject)
>> ==> '\x01\x02\x03\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x0.....
>>
>>With Frederiks help operates this fine
> 
> 
> I do not doubt that. My point was that instead of the suggested
> 
> # Fredrik
> obj = "".join(list(dataObject[:4]))
> 
> the simpler
> 
> # me
> obj = dataObject[:4]
> 
> might work as well. I cannot test it here, but judging from 
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.3/pywin32/win32file__ReadFile_meth.html
> 
> the resulting dataObject is a buffer and buffer slices seem to be just
> strings.
> 
> 
>>print repr(dataObject)
>> ==> '\x01\x02\x03\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x0.....
> 
> 
> Hmm, that looks as if dataObject were a string -- please post the result of
> 
> print type(dataObject)
> 
> just to help me restore my peace of mind :-)
> 
> Peter
> 

Hello Peter,

was a node in my mind, the data comes as a string (with readfile always)
<< type(dataObject) = 'str' >>  and
<< type(dataObject:4) = 'str' >> also ;-)

I've dropped the loop with list/join and the result is the same.
Thank you  :-))

gerd



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 23:01:22 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:01:22 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:48:18 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:


> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86ll0vs1sw.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> 
>> What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
>> practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
>> PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
>> Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
>> didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.
> 
>     Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car 
> without an engine.

That's a false analogy. A better analogy is, "go to your local car dealer
and see if you can buy a new car with the tyres of your choice."

Even non-technical types can choose to run a non-Windows operating system
on an Intel-compatible PC. So why do the tier-one vendors and all laptop
manufacturers make their machines available only with Windows? Or on the
very few occasions they will offer a naked PC, the price is the same as
for PC + Windows.

I'm aware of talk that Dell is selling Linux PCs at Walmart for less than
the same hardware plus Windows. Talk is cheap -- I'm not aware of anyone
who has actually seen these Linux PCs. I'd love to know either way.

(Oh, and since I am in Australia, and we haven't yet been invaded by
Walmart, I can't go and look for myself.)


-- 
Steven.



From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Sun Oct 16 03:23:06 2005
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:23:06 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11l369039d6ppe0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl3vuq.481.tim@vegeta.saiyix>

Greymaus <greymaus at cableone.net> wrote:
> Was that the Color Computer III running OS9 Level II for an
> operating system, that you're talking about?  Motorola 6809
> processor?  HELLUVA little computer!  OS9 was a bit quirky,
> though, even for a UNIX clone.

I loved my little CoCo!  I had the original CoCo, upgraded with
the 5 1/4" floppy drive, and later upgraded the whole system to
CoCo 3 with OS9.

<3 <3 <3

Of course, it all went downhill from there.  MS-DOS 3.1, Pascal,
Windows 3.1...

*sigh*

10 years later, things picked up.  Huzzah!

Tim Hammerquist


From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 23:04:07 2005
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (mirandacascade at yahoo.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:04:07 -0700
Subject: Minimizing Connection reset by peer exceptions
Message-ID: <1129777447.614500.232050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

This may be more of a socket question than a python question; not sure.

Using this code to instantiate/connect/set options
connectionHandle = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
errorStatus = connectionHandle.connect_ex((ipAddress, port))
connectionHandle.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_RCVTIMEO,
60000)

Using this code to send:
retSendAll = connectionHandle.sendall(messageToHost)

Followed by this code to recv:
bufferSize = 500000
responseBuffer = connectionHandle.recv(bufferSize)

Occasionally (perhaps 5% of the time) the following exception gets
raised:

(10054, 'Connection reset by peer')


Are there any changes I can make to the code above to eliminate the
10054 errors or to reduce the probability of encountering the 10054
error?  Are there any settings that make the 'Connection reset by
peer' condition less likely?

Other posts on this subject seem to suggest that this can only be
handled by:
1) detecting the 10054 error
2) issuing a message explaining the 'connection reset' condition
followed by something along the lines of 'try again later'.



From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Fri Oct  7 07:30:18 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:30:18 -0400
Subject: PyObject_New
In-Reply-To: <43462a69$0$6776$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <mailman.1647.1128651699.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43462a69$0$6776$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <1128684618.4472.41.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I just noticed this response right as I sent my other message. For some
reason my news reader didn't thread it, so it was all by itself...
Please disregard the rant concerning creation of objects in C. :)

/me hugs Martin
/me ducks and hides!

On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 09:57 +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> Jeremy Moles wrote:
> > 	PyObject* obj = _PyObject_New(&PyType_MyType);
> > 	obj = PyObject_Init(obj, &PyType_MyType);
> > 	
> > 	...
> > 
> > 	return obj;
> 
> The call to PyObject_Init is redundant: _PyObject_New
> is malloc+init. However, this shouldn't cause any crashes (except in the
> debug build). PyObject_Init is documented as
> 
> Initialize a newly-allocated object op with its type and initial 
> reference. Returns the initialized object. If type  indicates that the 
> object participates in the cyclic garbage detector, it is added to the 
> detector's set of observed objects. Other fields of the object are not 
> affected.
> 
> [I don't know where the mentioning of GC comes from - it appears to be
>   incorrect]
> 
> > When "obj" gets back to the interpreter, Python sees it (or rather, it's
> > __repr__) in accordance with what it "should" be. However, any attempt
> > to USE the object results in a segfault. I feel my problem is simply
> > that I'm not allocating "obj" correctly in the C++ function.
> 
> It doesn't crash because of the allocation - this code is correct.
> However, it is also incomplete: none of the state of the new object
> gets initialized in the fragment you are showing. So it likely crashes
> because the members of the object are stray pointers or some such,
> and accessing them causes a crash.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin



From http  Sun Oct  9 17:48:44 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 14:48:44 -0700
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.58.39.639129@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1797.1128873812.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.17.39.37.623835@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xvf061hvn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> Is it correct to say that Python *always* creates a closure whenever a def
> or lambda is executed? Or is it only for *certain* defs/lambdas?

The word closure is being used two different ways.  First of all the
computer-science term "closure" which means a combination of a
function and its lexical environment.  Second of all the data field
named "closure" which lives inside certain function objects in Python.
The second one is created only in certain Python functions but that's
an implementation detail.  It was added because in the old days,
Python didn't support closures at all, so implementing them was done
straightforwardly by adding a field that contains the closure
environment, for Python functions that needed it.

So the answer to your first question above is "always" in the CS sense
and "only for certain defs/lambdas" in the implementation sense.

> Is it correct to talk about functions *having* closures, or that they
> *are* closures, or that the function is *part of* a closure?

The function is part of the closure.  I think you're a little confused
by implementation issues.  In Python, functions are first-class
objects, like class instances or strings.  If you say 
  x = 'foo' + 'bar'
a new string is created out of nowhere.  If you say
  def f(x): return x+3
a new function is created out of nowhere.  Lambda notation maybe
shows more clearly that functions are values:
  f = (lambda x: x+3)
is the same as the "def f" above.

Let's go back a step.  Do you understand what a free variable is?
Let's say:
  def f():
     print x
f refers to x but x is not defined in f.  We say x is "free" in f.

In the old days, this could only mean one thing: x was a global
variable.  Python didn't have nested scopes.  If a variable wasn't
found in a function's locals, it could only come from the globals
that are shared across all functions.

Python now has nested scopes.  That means x doesn't have to come
from the globals, it can be a local from some surrounding function:
  def g(n):
     x = n   # x is local to g
     def f():
        print x
     f()
When you run g(3), Python prints 3.  That's not too confusing, right?

Suppose instead of calling f, you return it.  You can do that in Python:
  def g(n):
     x = n   # x is local to g
     def f():
        print x
     return f

  h3 = g(3)   # h3 is the function g creates when you run it

What will happen when you call h3()?  It prints 3.  How did it know to
do that?  Because h3 doesn't just contain executable bytecode, it also
contains f's lexical environment from when g ran.  (f's lexical
environment means the values of f's free variables from outer scopes
at the time f was created).  Now suppose you say:

  h5 = g(5)   # make a new function

See, h3 and h5 are two different functions:

  h3()  # still prints 3
  h5()  # prints 5

They contain the same executable code, but different lexical environments.

The combination of executable code plus lexical environment is called a
closure (CS term).  In Python, every function is a (CS) closure.  The
environment lives in a field called func_closure or something like that.

However, when there are no free variables, Python doesn't bother
creating that field.  That was ALWAYS the case in old versions of
Python.  Python didn't recognize nested scopes; there were only locals
and globals.  

> If all functions are closures, what does it mean to say that some
> languages (e.g. Java, C++, C#) don't have closures but merely
> simulate them? Are there any languages that don't have closures?

Those languages listed there don't have closures.  They don't even
have first-class functions.  Imagine what the h3 and h5 examples from
above would do in those languages.

To be fair, there's an argument that closures are un-Pythonic: you can
use class instances instead.  You could say:

   class G:
      def __init__(self, n): self.x = n
      def __call__(self): return self.x
   h3 = G(3)
   h5 = G(5)

and h3() prints 3 and h5() prints 5, just like the corresponding
closures.  But now you've polluted the name space with this extra
class G, and (depending on the situation) maybe you've written more
cumbersome code.  It's partly a matter of taste and preferences.  To
Lisp and Scheme users, closures are very natural.  To OOP programmers,
maybe they're confusing and unnecessary.


From nephish at xit.net  Tue Oct 25 17:11:32 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 14:11:32 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <1130267203.357225.180410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130253519.330211.92880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<h1osl19sg05fbnv0r2s1qd34vigt11dimk@4ax.com>
	<1130267203.357225.180410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130274692.380890.24220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

WE DID IT !
little more tinkering and correcting this
diff = start_time - end_time (vrs the other way around)

and its working.

so many thanks gents, a lot !



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 12:13:49 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 02:13:49 +1000
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.16.13.46.113944@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:52:54 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> I initially thought that generator/generator expression is cool (sort of
>> like the lazy evaluation in Haskell) until I notice this side effect.
>>
>> >>>a=(x for x in range(2))
>> >>>list(a)
>> [1,2]
>> >>>list(a)
>> []
>>
>> Would this make generator/generator expression's usage pretty limited ?
> 
> nope.

In fairness, it is a pretty big Gotcha.



>> As when the program/system goes beyond a single module, this behaviour
>> can cause subtle bugs ?
> 
> sure, in the same way as
> 
>     >>> f = open(filename)
>     >>> f.read()
>     'hello world\n'
>     >>> f.read() # oops!
>     ''
> 
> causes subtle bugs (that is, almost never)

Are you saying that the bugs it causes aren't subtle? *wink*


-- 
Steven



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Tue Oct 11 02:40:10 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:40:10 +0200
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkmnho.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

mystilleef at gmail.com enlightened us with:
> When gVim is launched from a shell terminal, it completely frees the
> terminal. [...] How do I implement this in my application written in
> python?

Using fork() and by catching the HUP signal.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 00:16:05 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:16:05 -0400
Subject: fun with lambdas
References: <e6507ac70510202015q447bd244w@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2335.1129865061.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86sluvtshm.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
> Juan Pablo Romero wrote:
>> Hello!
>> 
>> given the definition
>> 
>> def f(a,b): return a+b
>> 
>> With this code:
>> 
>> fs = [ lambda x: f(x,o) for o in [0,1,2]]
>> 
>> or this
>> 
>> fs = []
>> for o in [0,1,2]:
>>     fs.append( lambda x: f(x,o) )
>> 
>> I'd expect that fs contains partial evaluated functions, i.e.
>> 
>> fs[0](0) == 0
>> fs[1](0) == 1
>> fs[2](0) == 2
>> 
>> But this is not the case :(
>> 
>> What is happening here?
>
> Namespaces. The functions are looking up o at runtime. In both cases, o
> is bound to the last object in [0,1,2] once the iteration is finished.
>
> Try this (although I'm sure there are better ways):
>
> In [4]: fs = [lambda x, o=o: f(x, o) for o in [0,1,2]]
>
> In [5]: fs[0](0)
> Out[5]: 0
>
> In [6]: fs[0](1)
> Out[6]: 1
>
> In [7]: fs[0](2)
> Out[7]: 2

Right explanation. Right solution. Wrong examples. He wanted to see:

>>> fs[0](0)
0
>>> fs[1](0)
1
>>> fs[2](0)
2
>>> 

List comprehensions were purposely designed to mimic for loops, which
(unlike other languages) don't create a new variable for each pass
through the loop. ((They also "leak" the variable to the surrounding
namespace.) So you need to capture the current value of the loop index
somewhere. An alternative (and maybe slightly cleaner) method is:

>>> def makef(a):
...  return lambda b: a + b
... 
>>> fs = [makef(o) for o in [0, 1, 2]]
>>> fs[0](0)
0
>>> fs[1](0)
1
>>> fs[2](0)
2
>>> 

Generator comprehensions have the same issue:

>>> fs = list(lambda x: f(o, x) for o in [0, 1, 2])
>>> fs[0](0)
2
>>> fs[1](0)
2
>>> fs[2](0)
2
>>> 

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From iddw at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 18:02:23 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:02:23 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Ilb2f.18523$bb3.758915@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>
	<7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1129154547.6d0f3b178a128cc5f647dc0e128bc180@teranews>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:44:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

[...]
>Obviously you can't trust anything code-like that arrives from
>strangers. It is an extension of the law Mommy laid down not to take
>candy from strangers.
>
>However, formatted text is not code. Pictures are not code.  It is
>unfair to tar them with the brush of JavaScript or the goofy things
>Outlook does with enclosures.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS04-028.mspx

Summary: a buffer overflow problem in Microsoft's JPEG redering
library, used my almost all Windoze email and web clients, would allow
an attacker to execute any arbitrary code he wished on your computer
simply by tricking you into viewing a doctored JPEG image.  Since
solved (this problem is _so_ last year, dahling), but it belies your
assertion that "pictures are not code."

Regards,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From roy at panix.com  Fri Oct  7 08:16:12 2005
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:16:12 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <roy-535219.08161207102005@reader1.panix.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> What this is about (to me at least) is the edit-debug cycle.  Let's
> say I write some Python code, using assert to validate datatypes.
> Maybe I've made 4 errors.  I then write a test function and run it.
> Boom, the first assert fails.  I fix the first error, run again.
> Boom, the next assert fails.  Fix the next error, run again, boom,
> fix, etc.  Four edit-debug cycles.
> 
> With static typing, I run the compiler, get 4 error messages, fix all
> 4, and can get on with the next phase of testing with three fewer edit
> cycles.

That's certainly the plan, but my experience is that it's not the whole 
story, for a few reasons.

1) I can often run 4 Python edit-debug cycles in the time it takes me to 
run a single C++ cycle, especially if there's a whole pile of build system 
gunk layered on top of the raw compile step.

2) When I get a bunch of compile errors, I know that many of them are just 
cascaded from a single problem.  Thus, I tend to fix the first one and only 
take a quick look at all the others.  If it's obvious what the problem is, 
I'll fix it, but as often as not, I'll just recompile and see what pops out 
the next time.

3) Many times, I'll spend more time making the compiler happy than the 
protection it affords me is worth.  C++ is such a complex language, it's 
really hard to write a compiler which follows every detail of the spec, and 
the details are what kills you.  We had a case the other day where a 
const_cast of a reference returned by a function worked just fine on 
Solaris, but failed on HPUX.  We ended up with three guys digging through 
reference manuals trying to figure out how const_cast and references are 
supposed to interact.  We ended up deciding what we were doing was legal, 
but we still had to devise a work-around so it compiled on all platforms.  
It's actually a little more complex than that, because we don't even write 
raw const_cast's, we use a CONST_CAST macro to work around older compilers 
that don't support modern casting, so we burned a little more time 
double-checking that our macro expansion wasn't at fault.  We could have 
done a lot of Python edit-debug cycles in the time it took to sort that one 
out.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 08:19:36 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:19:36 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <fdh1m1p0gnfb81g28edffcji1h64tg7csp@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    Well shit, how surprising that they wouldn't want to do business with 
>you if you broke your agreements with them.

You could have a more productive debate with a talking coke machine
than you. 

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de  Sun Oct  2 17:41:54 2005
From: g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de (g.franzkowiak)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 23:41:54 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1354.1128285272.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dhpem5$nne$1@online.de>
	<mailman.1354.1128285272.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhpk5m$lcu$1@online.de>

Fredrik Lundh schrieb:
> "g.franzkowiak" wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've read a pipe and store it in a object.
>>My next step was the separation from 4 bytes with
>>obj = string.join(list(dataObject)[:4] ==> '\x16 \x00 \x00 \x00'
>>and the converting  by
>>value = struct.unpack('I', obj) generated the error
>>"unpack str size does not match format"
>>
>>Unfortunately is len(obj) 7, but integer lengt 4.
>>Why 7 ?
> 
> 
> because string.join inserts a space between the bytes, by default (as
> your example shows)
> 
> if you really need that join(list) thing (it's not clear how you read it, but
> I find it a bit hard to believe that you've managed to read it into some-
> thing that's supported by list but not unpack), you can do
> 
>     obj = string.join(list(dataObject)[:4], "")
> 
> or
> 
>     obj = "".join(list(dataObject[:4]))
> 
> or some variation thereof.
> 
> </F>
> 
> 
> 

I've also found the problem with som tests.
The best of this was:
tmpList = list(dataObject)[:4])
obj     = tmpList[0]+tmpList[1]+tmpList[2]+tmpList[3].

But your suggestions are much better and new for me - both.

Thanks
gerd


From bart.lateur at pandora.be  Sat Oct  1 09:08:05 2005
From: bart.lateur at pandora.be (Bart Lateur)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:08:05 GMT
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon [was Re: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum]
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>A skeptical policeman who says he doesn't actually believe the moon
>affects behaviour nevertheless reports that "last weekend" things were
>really crazy, and it was a full moon. Somebody writes in to correct him:
>no, the full moon is actually "tomorrow".

As a similar example: I've been told by various women independently,
that "there are more babies born near a full moon."

So... is there a correlation between insanity and babies being born?  :)

-- 
	Bart.


From mynewsa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:16:40 2005
From: mynewsa at gmail.com (Amol Vaidya)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:16:40 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <IWS5f.2584$Bf7.1530@tornado.texas.rr.com>

Thank you for all the great information and links! I think I will do what a 
lot of you reccomended and try both for myself, the only problem is finding 
time with homework, college applications, and SATs coming up. I'll let you 
know how it turns out. Again, thank you all for the help. 




From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Tue Oct  4 05:57:45 2005
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:57:45 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<43412d69$0$11141$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <dhtjmq$7f7$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>


"bruno modulix" <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote in message
news:43412d69$0$11141$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> James A. Donald wrote:
> > I am contemplating getting into Python, which is used by engineers I
> > admire - google and Bram Cohen, but was horrified
>
> "horrified" ???
>
> Ok, so I'll give you more reasons to be 'horrified':
> - no private/protected/public access restriction - it's just a matter of
> conventions ('_myvar' -> protected, '__myvar' -> private)
> - no constants (here again just a convention : a name in all uppercase
> is considered a constant - but nothing will prevent anyone to modify it)
> - possibility to add/delete attributes to an object at runtime
> - possibility to modify a class at runtime
> - possibility to change the class of an object at runtime
> - possibility to rebind a function name at runtime
> ....
>
> If you find all this horrifying too, then hi-level dynamic languages are
> not for you !-)

Not to mention that since the O.P. seem to assume that the compiler will
protect against deliberate subversion by evil programmers then he must be
further "horrified" to learn that, although it is harder to do the above in
f.ex. C++, it is not at all impossible, a carefully crafted pointer or a
little devious sub-classing goes a long way.

If all else fails, The humble Linker holds the Word of Power!

Tampering with linking is both the easiest way to subvert code reviews,
language checks and boundaries and also the hardest to discover because the
tampering will be buried somewhere deep inside the build process, the part
that never, ever gets reviewed because it is automated anyway and too
complex entirely so nobody sane will actually mess with it once it "works"
i.e. produces runnable code!.

Finally, given proper  permissions, one can of course re-link the binary
executable, should the occasion merit. Like when one needs HIP in Telnet
which is an absolute b****rd to build on a modern Linux box. (Somebody build
that *once* in maybe 1978, I think ;-) One can replace classes in Jar
archives too - possibly one can even get the Java runtime to load the "new
version" of a jar archive in preference to the shipped one ...


I.O.W:

Superficially, the compile-time checks of Java and C++ provides some checks
& boundaries but it comes at the expense of much more machinery with many
more intricate movable parts than *also* can be interfered with (or broken).

Python is simple and self-contained, thus it is pretty obvious - or at least
not too difficult, to check what *actually* goes on with an application.

If there is no trust, nothing can be done safely. If there is trust, then
most of the percieved safety just get in the way of work.




From brakjoller at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 10:21:51 2005
From: brakjoller at gmail.com (Mathias Dahl)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:21:51 +0200
Subject: Listening for keypress in the background
References: <m2zmp1u6l1.fsf@gmail.com> <j9KdnW2xM51nrMfeRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m2sluttyww.fsf@gmail.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

>> How can I make it listen for a certain keypress (say, Windows-key +
>> space) in a controlled fashion even when it is not the program having
>> focus?
>> 
>> I need to do this running under GNOME in Mandrake GN/Linux 10.
>
> Search Google for "python keylogger".

Thanks, good idea! The relevant pages I found only link to
Windows-specific keyloggers though.

I just got another idea on a solution for my main problem (invoking my
sleeping app) and that would be to let my window manager execute a
small "invoker" program that would communicate with the sleeping
app. The question is, which is the easiest way to communicate with a
running Python program? Signals? TCP/IP (not really, right?) Pipes?



From raims at dot.com  Thu Oct 27 10:29:41 2005
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:29:41 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<o4idnTFJk8Uf1_3eRVn-oQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm1p2l.bep.raims@voodoo.myself>

Il 2005-10-27, Andy Leszczynski <leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam> ha scritto:
> How Ruby solves the problem of global interpreter lock?

AFAIK Ruby does not have those kind of problems, it does not have "real" threads
but it emulates them via software

-- 
Lawrence
http://www.oluyede.org/blog


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Oct  4 05:51:33 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:51:33 +0200
Subject: question about smtplib
References: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1404.1128375138.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128380307.865252.289510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1494k1pvqvo9lg21q8bhi9qrgmc2ftl5kn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lud5ml1ufu.fsf@ohana.lan>

>>>>> Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> (TR) wrote:

>TR> nephish at xit.net wrote:
>>> cool. so this line
>>> server = smtplib.SMTP(localhost)
>>> is when i connect ?

>TR> Use the source, Luke.  Source code for every standard module is included on
>TR> your hard disk.  If you look in the __init__ for "class SMTP", your
>TR> question will be answered.

The documentation should be the ultimate reference for the API. The source
is just implementation detail which may change in the future.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct  3 15:06:46 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:06:46 -0500
Subject: Graphical debugger/code explorer
In-Reply-To: <dhrlbj$sph$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <dhrlbj$sph$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <UbudnTEy18DYHNzeRVn-vw@comcast.com>

Eclipse -
http://www.eclipse.org/
http://wiki.python.org/moin/EclipsePythonIntegration

Florian Lindner wrote:
> Hello,
> in order to understand python code from a larger project (Zope 3) I'm
> looking for a tool that helps me with that. It should also help 
> What (graphical) application running on Linux can you recommend?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Florian


From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Wed Oct 26 15:52:46 2005
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jean-marc)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 12:52:46 -0700
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
In-Reply-To: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130356366.749611.148240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

but you don't want to use the state=DISABLED  option because it gray's
out the field showing people that it is not available for editing,
right?



From natanvivo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 07:07:21 2005
From: natanvivo at gmail.com (Natan)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 04:07:21 -0700
Subject: Run process with timeout
Message-ID: <1129547240.998935.126970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi.

I have a python script under linux where I poll many hundreds of
interfaces with mrtg every 5 minutes. Today I create some threads and
use os.system(command) to run the process, but some of them just hang.
I would like to terminate the process after 15 seconds if it doesn't
finish, but os.system() doesn't have any timeout parameter.

Can anyone help me on what can I use to do this?

Thank you



From ajikoe at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 03:10:12 2005
From: ajikoe at gmail.com (ajikoe at gmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 00:10:12 -0700
Subject: While and If messing up my program?
In-Reply-To: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
References: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1128496212.482205.8380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi,

to get howmany element list appear you can code:
    ttllst=[4,3,45,3]
    for x in ttllst:
        print x, ttllst.count(x)
    pass

to get non duplicate element list you can code:
    ttllst=[4,3,45,3] 
    print list(set(ttllst))

Cheers,
pujo



From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Wed Oct 19 18:05:23 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:05:23 GMT
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
In-Reply-To: <4356703e$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4356703e$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <Dqz5f.93$uo3.34112@newshog.newsread.com>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> I am using binascii.b2a_hex to convert some binary data to hex. The
> result is a two bit hex representation (i. e., without the leading
> 0x).

Surely you mean two-byte?

> How do I convert the resulting two bit representation into an integer
> ?

int(foo, 16)


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 24 16:02:20 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:02:20 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djglnk$jq8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5y47f.174197$RW.59989@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <djjekc$k1f$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


<axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk> wrote in message 
news:5y47f.174197$RW.59989 at fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>
>>    This is about whether we're talking *ABOUT* America, you idiot. It's 
>> as
>> if he said the press has no freedom, and I replied, "if you want to talk
>> about some country where that's true, fine, but this discussion presumed
>> America as the basis".
>
>>    Remember, he is the one who said the government owned the economy. 
>> That
>> may be true in some countries, but it's simply *FALSE* in this country. 
>> Our
>> government has limited powers and ownership of the economy is not one of
>> them.

> I see that you cannot make a reasoned argument against the fact that
> property in the form of houses is taxed in America.

    What does that have to do with anything? Look, this isn't a politics or 
an economy newsgroup. I don't have to make rigorously valid economic or 
political arguments. It's sufficient that they be valid with respect to the 
subject at hand. And you can watch people reply to me by saying, "yeah, well 
that isn't correct for Afghanistan". Well, guess what, Microsoft isn't an 
Afghanistan company.

> Also may I remind you that these newsgroups are international.

    So what? We are talking about a United States' company's actions with 
respect to United States laws. There is no reason to make this about 
philosophy, politics, law, international relations or any such things. If we 
did that, we would wind up on tangents (just like this one!) that have 
nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft.

    Yes, in a discussion about Microsoft, I will make economic or political 
statements that aren't 100% valid in every possible imaginable case. But 
guess what? They'll be 100% valid for the case we're discussing.

    And you can watch all the replies about how my statement isn't true in 
every possible case. Well, guess what? I only care about one case.

    DS




From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 00:06:14 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python's Performance
Message-ID: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello All,
 
I would like to gather some information on Python's runtime performance. As far as I understand, it deals with a lot of string objects. Does it require a lot string processing during program execution? How does it handle such time-consuming operations? Is there a way to find out how many string operations (perhaps in the underlying system) ) it does during program execution?
 
Thanks a lot for your help!


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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From bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de  Fri Oct 21 04:48:24 2005
From: bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de (Torsten Bronger)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:48:24 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87sluvs1bb.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>

Hall?chen!

"Harald Armin  Massa" <haraldarminmassa at gmail.com> writes:

> Casey,
>
>> I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
>> about
>> 10,000 lines in C++
>> it is about
>> 5,000 lines in Java
>> and it is about
>> 3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)
>
> BTW: it is normally only 50 lines in Perl. Not that you could read
> it, though

At least they could form a heart.

Tsch?,
Torsten.

-- 
Torsten Bronger, aquisgrana, europa vetus            ICQ 264-296-646


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 03:48:25 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:48:25 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<uij533-fbp.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<epr0m1lq39pvrv2b2c9eslj4vitm55ffkj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djq0oa$vng$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:28:46 +0200, "Peter T. Breuer"
> <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>> I'm a bit curious about this. If I were a business person, I would
>> simply have created two busineses (two accounts, etc.). One business
>> sells only machines with MS on and pays the MS tax on all its
>> machines. One business sells only machines without MS on and pays
>> the MS tax on none of its machines.
>>
>> What's up with that?

> Try the same thing to deal with a Mafia extortion racket.

    This is precisely my point. Your premise is that a gun is no different 
from a persuasive argument. You need this principle to justify responding to 
arguments you don't like with guns. I reject this premise at its roots.

> We are not talking about legal agreements. We are talking junior Mafia
> style enforcement.

    Can you cite any evidence of Microsoft actually using or threatening 
force?

    DS




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 08:24:49 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:24:49 +1000
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:03:33 -0700, barnesc wrote:

> I added some recipes to the Python Cookbook:
> 
>  - listmixin
> 
>    Use ListMixin to create custom list classes from a small subset of
>    list methods:
> 
>    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440656

That looks great. Now, if only I understood mixins: what are they, and
what they are for, and in particular, how they differ from mere
subclassing.

I've spent some time searching for a good definition on the web, but the
main problem I've found is that most discussions on mixins assume
you already know what they are. Those that don't are talking about
Ruby or Lisp or some other language other than Python. I don't speak
those languages, so their code examples don't make a lot of sense to me.

Anyhoo, I've struggled on, but obviously I Just Don't Get It because
using mixins looks like subclassing to me.

Can anyone help me understand what's going on?


Thanks,


-- 
Steven.



From http  Sun Oct  2 23:03:28 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 20:03:28 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.02.23.06.37.133698@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xd5mni9of.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> The philosophy of dynamic languages like Python is that the class designer
> shouldn't be the only one who decides whether or not a particular variable
> should be private or public.

I don't see that as part of the philosophy of dynamic languages.  For
example, the Python language spec describes a way to reach the private
variables of class instances (through name mangling) but not a way to
get at the private variables of closures or generators (though you can
still do that in CPython through some implementation-specific hacks).

I don't think those implementation hacks are a deep philosophical
consequence of anything, and Python would still be Python without
them.  I don't see why generator designers should be any different
from class designers in your logic.  Why is it so important for
freedom-loving programmers to be able to mess with the private
variables of instances but not of generators?  How are they different?
(Answer: They are not different.  Both are unimportant.)

> The class designer is assumed to know their class best, and therefore be
> in a position to know what variables are dangerous or inconvenient to leak
> and which are not. But the class user is the person who knows their own
> needs best, and therefore best to know whether their needs are such that
> they are willing to take that risk.

Why do you think the designer and user are necessarily not the same
person?  Maybe an app writer wants to create some fault tolerance by
implementing privilege separation inside an application.  I mentioned
in another post that I wrote a crypto class that does exactly that, by
putting the crypto variables in a separate Python interpreter from the
client, and communicating by RPC over sockets.  I'm both the designer
and the user, and I wanted to protect the data in some of the classes
I wrote from code from possible misbehavior of other classes that I
wrote.  With private variables, I could do that in a single process
with reasonable security and much less overhead.

> Why should the class designer get a monopoly on deciding what the
> class user can or cannot do?

Um, because the designer wrote the code?  If the designer chose an
algorithm that's not to the user's liking, the user's only way to fix
it is by modifying the code (and thereby becoming a co-designer).
What's special about instance variables, that they should all be
accessible from elsewhere in the program without modifying the code?

> If you believe that the class designer should have the privilege of
> prohibiting certain uses of the class,

Not the class, just instances of the class in a running program.  The
user can always repurpose the class by modifying the code and making
new instances of the modified class.

> you will vote for private variables. If you believe that the class
> users should have more freedom, you will vote against them.

You're assuming some kind of conflict between the designer and the
user.  If the app is such that a conflict actually exists (e.g. the
user is a possibly-hostile applet), then letting the designer enforce
security is essential.  If no conflict exists, then the designer and
user (who might be the same person) can work out something to their
satisfaction.

> "Truly" private variables have an advantage of making the class
> designer's life somewhat easier -- not much, but a little. But that
> advantage comes at the cost of making the class user's life somewhat
> harder -- not much, but a little -- by restricting what they can
> do. Your private variable may be just what they need to solve some
> problem you never even thought of.

The right way to extend or override class method behavior is by
subclassing or changing the implementation.  This notion of reaching
into the private variables of running instances is a violation of type
safety and a silly hack.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 01:52:11 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 07:52:11 +0200
Subject: question about smtplib
References: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1404.1128375138.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128380307.865252.289510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dht5ad$39k$1@sea.gmane.org>

nephish at xit.net wrote:

> cool. so this line
> server = smtplib.SMTP(localhost)
> is when i connect ?

    http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-smtplib.html

     "If the optional host and port parameters are given, the
    SMTP connect() method is called with those parameters
    during initialization."

    "For normal use, you should only require the initialization/
    connect, sendmail(), and quit() methods. An example is
    included below."

</F>





From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 27 09:23:12 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:23:12 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djqjrt$6dh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqjic$qb7$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<djqjrt$6dh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <djqkc0$qk2$1@sadr.dfn.de>

David Schwartz wrote:
> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> 
> 
>>I would think that if I set up a shop and wanted to have the word
>>"Microsoft" as part of the shop name, there would be some rules
>>dictating what products I could and could not sell, yes. Wether those
>>rules are set forth in a law somewhere or Microsoft set them forth
>>themselves, I would find it hard to believe that the law would
>>prohibit them from doing so.
> 
> 
>>Otherwise I could set up a shop, call it "Microsoft Porsgrunn" and
>>sell machines with only Linux installed.
> 
> 
>>I think Microsoft would be allowed to say "No, you can't do that".
> 
> 
>     Burger King won't let you sell Whoppers or buy their burger patties 
> wholesale no matter what you want to call your store unless you take the 
> whole franchise deal. It's an all-or-nothing package. With very few limits, 
> companies do get to choose how their products are branded, marketed, and 
> sold.

Yes, and that's not what Microsoft has ever done. There have always been 
lots of shops selling Microsoft merchandise without being a Microsoft 
franchise in the sense Burger King shops are.

That's why I still say your comparison is a bad one.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From http  Thu Oct 13 17:50:16 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:50:16 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129235140.938321.134990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfyr56szy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1129239949.955964.241500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xoe5t6q93.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
> > Can you say what your application is?  That will help figure out
> > how far you need to go to protect these passwords, and what
> > alternatives might be possible.
> 
> Sure, no problem (see this on fixed text):

Well, I mean, what kind of data is it?  Sports chat?  Personal
correspondence?  Financial info like credit card numbers?  Medical
records?  Military/diplomatic traffic?  I'm asking how severe the
security requirements are.

> All ClientServers log in supplying only one hashed password. It is
> hashedly stored in MasterServer.

Why do you want to do that?  All of them get compromised if the one
password is compromised.  What do you mean by "password"?  If it's not
something a user has to remember and type in, then I hope you mean a
long random string rather than a password.  I sort of remember your
mentioning this though.

> All this is sustented over a VPN.

If the VPN is any good, it should authenticate all the peers in some
reasonable way, so why do you need this password stuff at all?


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 13 03:56:11 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 07:56:11 GMT
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
References: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129132506.ab1e6295283286960cd21918db1ebac4@teranews>
Message-ID: <slrndks4or.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-12, George Sakkis schreef <gsakkis at rutgers.edu>:
> "Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> Comments are welcome:
>>
>>   http://www.pardon-sleeuwaegen.be/antoon/avltree.html
>
> How about adding two shortcut methods, nextkey(k) and prevkey(k), to return the next and previous
> key respectively ? For instance nextkey would be equivalent to (untested):

I'll file this as: I'll probably never need it, so I'm going to resist
the temptation to add them now. If i find out I'm wrong, I can still do
so later.

> def nextkey(self, key):
>     iter = self[key:]
>     first = iter.next()
>     if key not in self: return first
>     else: return iter.next()

I think the if statement can be replaced by:

      if not self.cmp(key, first) == 0: return first

> Also for consistency, nextvalue(k), prevvalue(k), nextitem(k), previtem(k) would be reasonable
> additions.
>
> And a question: what does step do if the keys are not integers since you restrict step to be integer
> ?

It skips keys/items/values.

>>> radio = [
...        'alfa', 'bravo', 'charlie', 'delta', 'echo', 'foxtrot', 'golf', 'hotel', 'india',
...        'juliet', 'kilo', 'lima', 'mike', 'november', 'oscar', 'papa', 'quebec', 'romeo',
...        'sierra', 'tango', 'uniform', 'victor', 'whiskey', 'x-ray', 'yankee', 'zulu' ]
>>> 
>>> letters = 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'
>>> from avltree import Tree
>>> t=Tree(zip(radio,letters))
>>> t.keys('choco',None,3)
['delta', 'golf', 'juliet', 'mike', 'papa', 'sierra', 'victor', 'yankee']
>>> t.values('bureau',None,4)
['c', 'g', 'k', 'o', 's', 'w']


What would you have in mind if step would have been a string here?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 27 21:24:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:24:03 -0400
Subject: specify arbitrary library directory directly in code?
References: <1130460222.700509.195130@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <864q72h1sc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

scooterm at hotmail.com writes:

> ### Initial Findings
> After searching around a bit, it appears that python does not have a
> built-in mechanism for specifying arbitrary directories as the first
> place to look for module code. There are options that allow one to
> specify alternate directories, but all these options require changes
> to environment variables, or changes (or additions) to the files in
> the standard package directories.
>
> But if you define 'built-in mechanism' meaning a change that only
> requires modifying the code in 'faa_script.py' ... then there is
> no 'built-in mechanism'.
>
> ### Question
> Are the initial findings correct? If not, can you specify the code
> (or the link to the documentation) that specifies how to do what I
> am trying to do? If the initial findings are correct, are there any
> alternative workarounds to allow faa_script.py to automatically
> discover module code in specific sibling directories?

No, the findings aren't correct. You can manipulate the search path
directly.

import sys
sys.path.insert(0, "/directory/to/search")

will cause future imports to search /directory/to/search before all
other directories. Likewise, sys.append("/directory/to/search") will
search it after other directories.

Docs here: http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/tut/node8.html#SECTION008200000000000000000

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From benji at benjiyork.com  Fri Oct  7 13:54:38 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:54:38 -0400
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
In-Reply-To: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4346B65E.4040903@benjiyork.com>

GregM wrote:
> I am trying to see if a web page contains the exact text:
> You have found 0 matches

It is unclear to me why you're using a regex at all.  If you want to 
find the *exact* text "You have found 0 matches" perhaps you should do 
something like this:

if "You have found 0 matches" in pagetext:
     print 'yes'
else:
     print 'no'

--
Benji York



From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Mon Oct 24 04:07:36 2005
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:07:36 +0200
Subject: create user message for wxPython
References: <mailman.2323.1129839922.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dji4o8$hi$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>


"James Hu" <jhu at metrigenix.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.2323.1129839922.509.python-list at python.org...
Hi,

> There are 2 wxPython application, A and B and need to exchange msg.

I do not think that wx even has a mechanism for sending events between
applications.?

You need some other tool, like a socket, a named pibe, some windows specific
event queue library (gack!), or maybe a toolkit like PYRO, SPREAD e.t.c.
depending on your *reason* for needing this in the first place.

I am partial to PYRO myself.

... and you do need an event loop in any case to map from:

 "remote event" <-> "message protocol" <-> "local event"

... at least that makes it easier to test than "raw" event's which are
harder to control.




From david at jotax.com  Thu Oct 27 16:01:43 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 13:01:43 -0700
Subject: Counting Threads
In-Reply-To: <N9-dnbE-8qTHtfzeRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
References: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130435796.917475.295830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<N9-dnbE-8qTHtfzeRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130443303.870376.119470@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

>> But the count isn't doint what I expected.  I was after a increment
>> after every time the class was used ireespective of instance.


>I have no idea what that last sentence above means...

On re-reading it - neither do I.  Sorry about that.  What I meant to
say was that I was after an increment in the count variable (the class
attribute) not an increment only within the class instances.  Because
the variable was being set to zero every time the class was
instantiated I wasn't getting the true usage count.

> ServerThreads.GlobalThreadCount = 0

That was what the syntax I was missing.

> You appear to know there is a difference in spelling between these two
> "demons"... but only "daemon" is correct.  "Deamon" is a misspelling.

That one certainly slipped under the radar.

>You would want to wrap it with a threading.Lock() to
> protect it in that case.

Will do.

> But, again, using a global at all is wrong anyway

I posted using this sytax as it was nearly working - but I knew there
was a serious clanger in the code and you pointed it out when you
identified it was the class attribute syntax I was after.

Peter, thank you for taking the time to unpick my code.  It's much
apreciated.  I have only been coding with Python for the past couple of
weeks and switching my brain to work with Python classes has been a bit
of a challenge.  I wil re-read the document section on style tips
before I get too far into my app, as I would really like to be able to
code in a Pythonesque fashion.

David.



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct  5 14:15:31 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:15:31 -0700
Subject: Extending Python
In-Reply-To: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051005181531.GE32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 05, Tuvas wrote:
> I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C
> code. I have an application built in C that I need to be able to use
> in Python. I have searched through various sources, starting of
> course with the Python site itself, and others, but I felt a bit
> lacking from the Python site, it seems it was only made for those
> who installed the source distribution, as for the other people...
> Anyways, thanks for the help!

I have no experience with this, but I see that Alex Martelli's "Python
In A Nutshell" has quite a few pages on the subject.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From jarrod.roberson at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 17:32:19 2005
From: jarrod.roberson at gmail.com (fuzzylollipop)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 14:32:19 -0700
Subject: simple send only command line jabber client in python?
Message-ID: <1130275939.113598.194000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I want to be able to send jabber messages from an subversion
post-commit hook script. All I need is a simple library to connect to a
server and send a message.

I looked at all the half-finished and overly complex projects and can't
find anything that fits the bill. What I did find I can't get to work
correctly, probably because everything is 2 years old and out of date.

Any ideas?



From http  Mon Oct 10 08:54:49 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 05:54:49 -0700
Subject: socketServer questions
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128774994.14078.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xu0frogwj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128948284.15030.7.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7x4q7po7l2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> > I don't understand the question.  HMAC requires that both ends share a
> > secret key; does that help?  
> 
> That's what I don't get. If both sides have the key... how can it be
> 'secret'? All one would have to do is look at the code on any of the
> clients and they'd then know everything, right?

Yes, clients have to keep the key secure.

> > What do you mean by verification?
> 
> I'm trying to keep script kiddies from tampering with a socket server. I
> want the server to only load a valid or verified string into its log
> database and to discard everything else. 

If the clients can keep a secret key secure, then use hmac.  Note that
if there's lots of clients, they shouldn't all use the same secret key.
Instead, for client #i, let that client's key be something like
  hmac(your_big_secret, str(i)).digest()
and the client would send #i as part of the string.  You'd use
#i to recompute the client's key and then use that derived key to
verify the string.  This is called "key derivation" or "key
diversification".  If an attacker gets hold of that client's key and
starts hosing you, you can disable that key without affecting the
other ones.  (The client is issued only the derived key and never sees
the big secret).

> Strings could come to the socket server from anywhere on the Net from
> any machine. This is outside my control. What is there to prevent a
> knowledgeable person from finding the py code on a client computer,
> understanding it and then being able to forge a string that the server
> will accept?

Yes, if you're concerned about insecure clients, you have a much more
complex problem.  But your x..z..y scheme is far worse than hmac.
Once the attacker figures that out, there's no security at all.

What is the actual application, if you can say?  Depending on the
environment and constraints, various approaches are possible.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 17 18:22:25 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:22:25 -0500
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
In-Reply-To: <008001c5d030$79890e40$5b923652@Gavana>
References: <008001c5d030$79890e40$5b923652@Gavana>
Message-ID: <200510171722.25069.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Thursday 13 October 2005 02:58 pm, Andrea Gavana wrote:
> # that is the old colour --> GREY
> rgb_old = (0.7, 0.7, 0.7)
>
> So, no matter what colour I choose as a "new" colour, the 
Hue part of the new colour doesn't change in RGB. In other 
words, leaving the old value for "Saturation" and "Value" 
makes the presence of the "Hue" part useless. But why in 
the world does this happen? If a colour is defined by 3 
values, changes in every single value should change the 
colour too...

Turns out this is a bad example for the HSV transformation.
The saturation of pure grey is 0, and the hue is undefined
(which means it probably takes a default value, or is left
wherever you set it -- it has no effect).

So what happens is that an HSV hue change leaves pure
grays untouched.

The RGB to HSV coordinate transform is going from a 3D
cartesian system to a *cylindrical* coordinate system,
where the long axis of the cylinder is "value", the 
radius is "saturation", and the angle is "hue".  your
neutral gray is going to be about 0.7 up the "value"
axis, but with no saturation, the hue makes no difference
in the outcome.

The transformation I suggested was rotating the HSV system
about the axis, by substituting the hue. So, if you had,
for example, a bright red, you'd get a bright blue, instead
(because we got the hue from "process blue" / rgb=(0,0,1)).

But gray stays gray.

> Ah, thanks God for the existence of RGB ;-)

Well, it may be that the hue transform just isn't what
you're looking for. We could also preserve only the value,
forcing saturation to 1 and hue to the specified hue:

>>> hsv_new = (hue_tgt, 1.0, hsv_old[2])
>>> rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb(*hsv_new)
>>> rgb_new
(0.0, 0.0, 0.69999999999999996)

(You might get a more aesthetically pleasing outcome
with a less pure color, by setting the saturation lower).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 07:18:54 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:18:54 +0200
Subject: Question on class member in python
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1129624952.836150.159520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4mjkh.163t6yf4f20krN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129630576.414181.276570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4mo01.lsbv3p6iysfgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli ???

Now that's a peculiar question...


> > Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > But I still wonder what's the difference between the A().getMember and
> > > A().member besides the style
> >
> > Without parentheses after it, getMember is a method.  The difference
> > between a method object and an integer object (which is what member
> > itself is in your example) are many indeed, so your question is very
> > strange.  You cannot call an integer, you cannot divide methods, etc.
> >
> >
> > Alex
> 
> Sorry, I didn't express myself clear to you. I mean:
> b = A().getMember()
> c = A().member
> what's the difference between b and c? If they are the same, what's the
> difference in the two way to get the value besides the style.

If getMember's body is nothing but a 'return self.member', then there is
no difference -- 'assert b is c'.

What is the difference between:

x = 2

and 

y = 2+2-2*2/2

???  Answer: in terms of final results, no difference.  On the other
hand, the second approach does a lot of obviously useless and intricate
computation, so it's a sheer waste of time and effort.

Exactly the same answer applies to your question -- obtaining the
.member attribute "indirectly", by calling a method that returns it,
does some obviously useless and moderately intricate computation, which
in some ways is a waste of (some) time and effort.  That's all!


Alex


From csheppard91 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 13:00:23 2005
From: csheppard91 at gmail.com (csheppard91 at gmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 10:00:23 -0700
Subject: forum
Message-ID: <1128272422.987128.295820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Forum commuication is easier, and I've just started a new forum and
would like to  invite all of you to sign up and post there.  I'm still
looking for moderators and anyone who will help out.  If you are
intersted: www.wizardsolutionsusa.com -- follow the forum link.
Remember it doesn't take but a minute of your time to sign up, so help
me out!



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 14:44:10 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:44:10 +0200
Subject: Newbie regular expression ?
References: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhuihm$o47$1@sea.gmane.org>

"len" <lsumnler at gmail.com> wrote:

>I have the following statement and it works fine;
>
>    list1 = glob.glob('*.dat')

that's a glob pattern, not a regular expression.

> however I now have an additional requirement the the string must begin
> with any form of "UNQ,Unq,unq,..."

    list1 = glob.glob('*.dat')
    list1 = [file for file in list1 if file.lower().startswith("unq")]

</F> 





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct  5 08:53:11 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:53:11 +1000
Subject: bug or feature?
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.05.12.53.11.403404@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 03:39:30 -0700, beza1e1 wrote:

> Coming back from a bug hunt, i am not sure what to think of this python
> behaviour.

[snip code]

> The point seems to be, that lst=[] creates a class attribute (correct
> name?), which is shared by all instances of A. So a.lst ist the same
> object as b.lst, despite the fact, that object a is different to object
> b.

Not a bug, but not really a feature as such, it is a side-effect of
the way Python works. I guess that makes it a gotcha.

Argument defaults are set at compile time. You set the argument default to
a mutable object, an empty list. Every time you call the function,
you are appending to the same list.

This is not a problem if your argument default is a string, or a number,
or None, since these are all immutable objects that can't be changed.

I suppose someone might be able to come up with code that deliberately
uses this feature for good use, but in general it is something you want to
avoid. Instead of:

def spam(obj, L=[]):
    L.append(obj)

do this:

def spam(obj, L=None):
    if L is None: L = []
    L.append(obj)


-- 
Steven.



From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Sun Oct  9 11:48:15 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 17:48:15 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128832565.028584.10590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051009174815.1571392f@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

Hello Phil,

I'm currently looking to see if I can build upon SimPy, thus making it
an hybrid system simulator. That would be a great step for the
community.

Main difficulty would be to build a framework which isn't clumsy, like
you said.
I have close to no experience in Python and object oriented development,
but I'm fairly advanced in C and procedural development, and of course
in continuous sytem simulator. I'll keep you informed of my
investigations...

I've downloaded your zip files, but unfortunately I have no access to
Windows. Are you able to send me only the sources ?

Thanks in advance,

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 8 Oct 2005 21:36:05 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com wrote :

> Nicholas,
> 
> I have a particular interest in this subject as well. I've also used
> the Python/Scipy combination, and it is a tantalizing combination, but
> I found it to be a bit more clumsy than I'd like. Plus, my need for
> continuous-time simulation is not as great as it has been in the past.
> 
> That said, I've been down this path before (see
> http://custom.lab.unb.br/pub/asme/DYNAMICS/BUFORD1.zip), and I would
> be interested in helping to develop something. I agree that Python
> would be a great foundation to build upon.
> 


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sun Oct  9 19:24:49 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 16:24:49 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1128900289.144843.161060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:00:04 +0300, Ville Voipio wrote:
>
> > I would need to make some high-reliability software
> > running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
> > (or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.
>
> [snip]
>
> > The software should be running continously for
> > practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
> > Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
> > leak-free enough to achieve this?
>
> If performance is really not such an issue, would it really matter if you
> periodically restarted Python? Starting Python takes a tiny amount of time:

You must have missed or misinterpreted the "The software should be
running continously for practically forever" part. The problem of
restarting python is not the 200 msec lost but putting at stake
reliability (e.g. for health monitoring devices, avionics, nuclear
reactor controllers, etc.) and robustness (e.g. a computation that
takes weeks of cpu time to complete is interrupted without the
possibility to restart from the point it stopped).

George



From niels.ellegaard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 06:17:51 2005
From: niels.ellegaard at gmail.com (Niels L Ellegaard)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 03:17:51 -0700
Subject: Writing an xmgr/grace file  as text (not interactive)
Message-ID: <1128939471.025646.84050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Can someone suggest a package that allows me to write a data file for
xmgr.

So far I have found some  packages that allow me to start an
interactive xmgrace session from python, but I would rather have a
package that write a text file.

I realize that xmgr can read text-files, and that the format of an
xmgr-file is easy to read, but if someone has allready done this work
then I would rather steal it and save my own time :)

                    Thanks in advance

                          Niels



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sat Oct  8 09:53:28 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 13:53:28 GMT
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> However, this:
> 
> for index in range(1, 101):
>      print index, fibonacci(idx = index)
> 
> this one uses the kwargs list of arguments, and I'm not sure how to 
> change my function to take that into account.
> 
> Does anyone have any clues as to how to do that?
> 
> The solution would have to consider fibonacci(50) and fibonacci(idx = 
> 50) as the same call and thus retrieve the second one from the cache.
> 

Most of your gain comes from caching the recursive calls, not from caching 
the original call.

If the solution doesn't consider keyword arguments equivalent to positional 
arguments, it will make *one* call to the real function, and then the 
recursive call will still come out of the cache, so the net result will 
still be to give you almost all the speedup you wanted. 

Unless the results stored in the cache are very large data structures, I 
would suggest that you simply store (args,kwargs) as the cache key and 
accept the hit that sometime you'll cache the same call multiple times.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 14 00:25:11 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:25:11 +0100
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xfyr5qdxh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r83a5Fi1rt6U1@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5qdxh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <dinbv5$56k$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> 
>>>Yes, that would describe just about every cpu for the past 30 years
>>>that's a plausible Python target.
>>
>>No. The later 68K (>68020) could address on odd adresses. And AFAIK
>>all x86 can because of their 8080 stemming.
> 
> 
> Yes, "could" but not "does" in terms of what any reasonable actual
> compiler implmementations do.  You get a huge performance hit for
> using unaligned data.  The one exception is you could conceivably have
> character strings starting at odd addresses but it's no big deal to
> start them all on 4-byte (or even 2-byte) boundaries.

You made your original assertion in response to Diez saying

 >>And this presumes an architecture which byte-addresses and only
 >> uses "aligned" addresses.

He was talking about the arachiteecture, for Pete's sake, not a compiler.

I personally find it irritating that you continue to try and justify 
your assertions even when you are plainly on shaky ground, which tends 
to make the threads you are involved in endless. Sorry for the ad 
hominem remarks, which I normally try and avoid, but this (ab)uses 
newsgroup bandwidth unnecessarily.

Unwillingness to admit any mistake can be rather unattractive. Can't 
you, just once, say "I was wrong"? Or are you perchance related to 
President Bush? Better still, just let these small things go without 
further comment.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 15:35:17 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 12:35:17 -0700
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1917.1129058774.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1914.1129055650.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129056123.654224.18070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129058051.426314.28670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1917.1129058774.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129059317.847237.215260@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Carsten..thanks so much...that was it!  DUH!

Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-10-11 at 15:14, Java and Swing wrote:
> > Anyhow, I need PyBuildValue to work.
> 
> Try Py_BuildValue.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Carsten Haese.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Oct 25 12:50:07 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:50:07 +0200
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>

usgog at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a config file with the following contents:
> service A = {
>   params {
>     dir = "c:\test",
>     username = "test",
>     password = "test"
>   }
> }
> 
> I want to find username and replace the value with another value. I
> don't know what the username value in advance though. How to do it in
> python?

Could be done using regular expressions. Ususally for such tasks one 
would prefer pythons string manipulation functions, but if you want to 
preserve whitespace, I think a rex is in order here:


import re, sys


new_name = "foobar"

rex = re.compile(r'(^.*username *=[^"]*")([^"]*)(".*$)')
for line in sys.stdin:
     m = rex.match(line)
     if m is not None:
         line = "%s%s%s\n" % (m.group(1), new_name, m.group(3))
     sys.stdout.write(line)



use with

python script.py < config_in > config_out

Regards,

Diez


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 22 09:45:32 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:45:32 +0100
Subject: python problems with dos lineendings in python-scripts
In-Reply-To: <200510212137.41565.marco@morca.de>
References: <200510212137.41565.marco@morca.de>
Message-ID: <djdfpl$lkn$1@sea.gmane.org>

marco wrote:
> hi folks,
> 
> i can not run any python scripts with dos lineendings under cygwin's python.
> if i run such a scripts i get stupid syntax error messages from python.
> 
> what can i do to run these scripts without changing the lineending of these scripts.
> 
> regards marco
> 
The only time line endings will make a difference is if there's a 
carriage return on the shebang line. If you run the script using

   python script.py

you should find that you get no problems at all.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From rrr at ronadam.com  Thu Oct 20 10:47:43 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:47:43 GMT
Subject: destroy your self????
In-Reply-To: <1129797667.477066.170090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<kPD5f.162041$xl6.94391@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1129797667.477066.170090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j6O5f.205249$p_1.108910@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

James wrote:
> Doesn't work for classes because self has no global reference.

True.  To make it work one would need to track instances and names and 
do comparisons... and so on.  So it's not worth it.  ;-)

Cheers,
    Ron


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 17:42:12 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:42:12 -0000
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xbr25xbot.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<11k5qpiri213s59@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xslvhj7xq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <11k5tpkffpf1567@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>> > In the nomenclature of some of these applications, that kind
>> > of transfer is called a client to client connection.  Both
>> > ends are called clients.
>> 
>> IIRC, we were talking about TCP sockets.

> So, there's a reasonable application for wanting to open a
> listener port without binding any specific port number.  Alice
> would just ask her OS to assign her a port (say it assigns
> 23789) and listen on it, instead of having to contend with
> other apps on the same IP for some specific port number.  Then
> she'd send a message through the chat server asking Bob to
> connect to port 23789 on her machine.

Ah.  Got it.

> I'm not sure if there's a way to do this.  Do you happen to
> know?

IIRC, you just call bind() with a port number of zero, and then
use some method-or-other on the bound socket to find out what
port it's bound to.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Life is a POPULARITY
                                  at               CONTEST! I'm REFRESHINGLY
                               visi.com            CANDID!!


From tdwdotnet at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 06:09:55 2005
From: tdwdotnet at gmail.com (Tim Williams (gmail))
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:09:55 +0100
Subject: do cc list from smtplib
In-Reply-To: <4358BBDE.3070902@holdenweb.com>
References: <1129887280.469124.107340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<9afea2ac0510210244q5373a840k@mail.gmail.com>
	<4358BBDE.3070902@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <9afea2ac0510210309h46cd215cw@mail.gmail.com>

On 21/10/05, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>
> Assuming that TO and CC are single addresses it would be saner to use:
>

:)

Assuming that the envelope TOs (inc CCs) are the same as the
Header-TOs and Header-CCs

Actually,  I think this would be safer !

> def email(HOST,FROM,TO,CC, RECIPS, SUBJECT,BODY):
..
..
..
          server.sendmail(FROM,RECIPS,body)

RECIPS = list of SMTP recipients
TO & CC = Text representation of some/all/none of the SMTP recipients
and/or other text

RECIPS should be either a single address as a string *or* a list
containing 1 or more addresses


From Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net  Tue Oct 25 11:05:36 2005
From: Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net (Dennis Benzinger)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:05:36 +0200
Subject: Documentation for iteration in mappings
Message-ID: <435e49b8$1@news.uni-ulm.de>

Hi!

I must be blind because I didn't find anything in the documentation 
which says iterating over an dictionary iterates over its keys.

For example

a_dictionary = {0: "zero", 1: "one"}
for x in a:
     print x

gives you

0
1

Where is this information hidden? :)

Bye,
Dennis


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Fri Oct 28 12:03:20 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:03:20 -0700
Subject: replace words
In-Reply-To: <djnit5$3ab$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1130310159.632687.295020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djnit5$3ab$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <43624aee$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> hagai26 at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>What is the way for replacing in a string from . to . the sentence?
>>for example:
>>"been .taken.  it may be .left. there,
>>even if the .live coals were not. cleared"
>>I want to do this-> replace(\.(.*)\.,\.start (1) end\.)
>>result:
>>"been .start taken end.  it may be .start left end. there,
>>even if the .start live coals were not end. cleared"
> 
> 
> Use \1 to refer to the group in the substitution expression.
> You also need to change the regex to non-greedy match (the trailing ?).
> Otherwise you only get one big match from .taken ... not.
> 
> import re
> s = ("been .taken.  it may be .left. there, "
>      "even if the .live coals were not. cleared")
> 
> r = re.compile(r"\.(.*?)\.")
> print r.sub(r".start \1 end.", s)
> 
> Peter
> 
Perhaps you can use a variant of:
     http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/231347

     def wrap(source, pre, post):
         gen = iter(source)
         for portion in gen:
             yield portion
             try:
                 bracketed = gen.next()
             except StopIteration:
                 break
             yield pre
             yield bracketed
             yield post

     def mangledots(string):
         return ''.join(wrap(string.split('.'), '.start ', ' end.'))

print mangledots('been .taken.  it may be .left. there, '
                  'even if the .live coals were not. cleared')

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From alexs at advfn.com  Tue Oct 18 08:25:53 2005
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:25:53 +0100
Subject: Hygenic Macros
In-Reply-To: <51543672-464E-4C0D-8982-089C15821709@advfn.com>
References: <s355041c.073@server7.nfra.nl>
	<51543672-464E-4C0D-8982-089C15821709@advfn.com>
Message-ID: <F0786586-C2FE-4969-A4BA-9F4891D64EDC@advfn.com>

Ahar got it

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/384122

Would something like that be any use?

On 18 Oct 2005, at 13:21, Alex Stapleton wrote:

> I seem to remember a rather ugly hack at some point in the past that
> created a new "operator" like so
>
> A |dot| B
>
> where dot was an object which had the OR operator for left and right
> arguments redefined seperately so that it only made sense when used
> in that syntax.
>
> I guess you could hack something together along the same lines. I
> just wish I could remember what it was called, it's on the
> ActiveState Cookbook somewhere.
>
> On 18 Oct 2005, at 13:17, Adriaan Renting wrote:
>
>
>> Using numarray/pylab there's also dot:
>>
>>
>>>>> from pylab import *
>>>>> A = array(range(10))
>>>>> B = array(range(10))
>>>>> A * B
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> [ 0, 1, 4, 9,16,25,36,49,64,81,]
>>
>>
>>>>> dot(A, B)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> 285
>>
>> It might also make your code more readable. I would like "A dot B",
>> but even using ipython
>> I can only get as close as "dot A, B"
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> Dan Farina <nntp.20.drfarina at recursor.net> 10/18/05 1:33 pm >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> David Pokorny wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have  
>>> one
>>> good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can
>>> multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise
>>> multiplication). In Python, I have to type
>>>
>>> import Numeric
>>> matrixmultiply(A,B)
>>>
>>> which makes my code almost unreadable.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The problem here is that Python's parse trees are of non-trivial
>> ugliness.
>>
>> A page on the compiler.ast module:
>> http://docs.python.org/lib/node792.html
>>
>> it is, in fact, perfectly possible to write yourself a pre-
>> processor for
>> your particular application.  You may have to fiddle with the token
>> you
>> want for notation depending on how the AST fleshes out (% is used
>> by at
>> least a couple of things, after all).  My cursory familiarity with
>> python grammar suggests to me that this particular choice of token
>> could
>> be a problem.
>>
>> I would say try it and see.  Keep in mind though that since
>> Python's AST
>> is not a trivial matter like it is in Lisp and the like that doing
>> metaprogramming of this sort probably falls into the category of  
>> black
>> magic unless it turns out to be very trivial.
>>
>> Another option is to define your own tiny class that will override  
>> the
>> __mult__ method so that you can simply do:
>>
>> A * B
>>
>> Which may not be what you want.
>>
>> df
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 12 09:58:23 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 13:58:23 GMT
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
References: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1961.1129124798.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndkq5jv.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-12, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Comments are welcome:
>> 
>>   http://www.pardon-sleeuwaegen.be/antoon/avltree.html

> Does this type bear any relationship at all to what most people call a 
> tree, which is a bifurcated data structure? Or do you call it a tree for 
> some other reason?

The underlying implementation is an AVL balanced binary tree with
inorder threading.

> Sounds like "cdict" might be a better name ...

I don't know. The python dictionary type with its name, seem to refer
to how it is implemented, so I thought Tree was an appropiate name
here as it is implemented as a tree.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Mon Oct 10 08:44:44 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rbt)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:44:44 -0400
Subject: socketServer questions
In-Reply-To: <7xu0frogwj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128774994.14078.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xu0frogwj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128948284.15030.7.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>

On Sat, 2005-10-08 at 14:09 -0700, Paul Rubinhttp: wrote:
> rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> > Off-topic here, but you've caused me to have a thought... Can hmac be
> > used on untrusted clients? Clients that may fall into the wrong hands?
> > How would one handle message verification when one cannot trust the
> > client? What is there besides hmac? Thanks, rbt
> 
> I don't understand the question.  HMAC requires that both ends share a
> secret key; does that help?  

That's what I don't get. If both sides have the key... how can it be
'secret'? All one would have to do is look at the code on any of the
clients and they'd then know everything, right?

> What do you mean by verification?

I'm trying to keep script kiddies from tampering with a socket server. I
want the server to only load a valid or verified string into its log
database and to discard everything else. 

Strings could come to the socket server from anywhere on the Net from
any machine. This is outside my control. What is there to prevent a
knowledgeable person from finding the py code on a client computer,
understanding it and then being able to forge a string that the server
will accept?

Does that make sense?



From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 16:18:14 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 13:18:14 -0700
Subject: Extention Woes
Message-ID: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I am in the process of writing an extention module, and am coming up
with lots of problems. Perhaps someone could be of use. I keep getting
data that isn't what I'm sending the program. Let me give the line of C
code and Python Code and output to illistrate the problem.

write_can(can_han,0x0140,'abcd')

if (PyArg_ParseTuple(args("iiz#",&can_han,&com,&data,&len)
    return NULL;

Okay, so I put in a print statement to print out the variables can_han,
com, data, and length. The results were more or less this (I don't have
copy/paste at the moment, so...

1357 com->0 len->4 str->,/p.

Anways, the variable can_han was correct, the length is correct, but
the com and the string are garbage. Any ideas as to why this may be?
Thanks!



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct  6 10:35:27 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:35:27 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Suppose we have a typesystem which has the type ANY, which would mean
> such an object could be any type. You could then have homogenous lists
> in the sense that all elements should be of the same declared type and
> at the same time mix all kind of type in a particular list, just
> as python does.

The you have JAVA Object or C void*. Which cause all kinds of runtime 
troubles.... because they essentially circumvene the typechecking!

> 
> So how would this limit python.

The limitation is that in static languages I must _know_ what type to 
cast such an ANY, before calling anything on it. Otherwise its useless.

>>even though ususally the contents of a list 
>>share some common behaviour. And that exactly is the key point here: in 
>>a statically typed world, that common behaviour must have been extracted 
>>and made explicit.
> 
> 
> Would my suggestion be classified as a statically typed world?

See above.

> 
> 
>>Which is the cause for that notorious java io API. 
>>And, to extend the argument to ML-type type-checking, there you need a 
>>disjoint union of the possible types - _beforehand_, and the code 
>>dealing with it has to be aware of it.
>>
>>In python OTH, I just pass objects I like into the list - if they 
>>behave, fine.
> 
> 
> But now we are no longer talking about how typechecking would limit
> the language but about convenience for the user.

That's dialectics. Limits in the language limit the user and make things 
inconvenient.

Diez


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:01:55 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:01:55 -0700
Subject: C Extension - return an array of longs or pointer?
In-Reply-To: <1129121392_1305@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129121392_1305@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1129121397.404505.41070@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Interesting...thanks.  Any good tutorials out there, other than the
python doc for ext?


thanks.

Brandon K wrote:
> All the veteran programmers out there can correct me, but the way I did
> it in my extension was this:
>
> static PyObject *wrap_doNumberStuff(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
> {
> 	char* in = 0;
> 	char* x = 0;
> 	long* result = 0;
> 	int i = 0;
> 	PyObject* py = PyTuple_New()
> 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"ss",&in, &x);
> 	if(!ok) return NULL;
>
> 	result = doNumberStuff(in,x):
> 	len = sizeof(result)/sizeof(long)
> 	for(i;i < len; i++)
> 		PyTuple_SET_ITEM(py, i,Py_BuildValue("l",*result[i])
> }
>
> Simple enough idea...i'm not quite sure if I've done everything
> correctly with the pointers, but I'm sure you can figure that out, the
> algorithm is simple enough.
>
> > Hi,
> >    I have been posting about writing a C extension for Python...so far,
> > so good.  At least for the "simple" functions that I need to wrap.
> >
> > Ok, my c function looks like...
> >
> > MY_NUM *doNumberStuff(const char *in, const char *x) { ... }
> >
> > MY_NUM is defined as, typedef unsigned long MY_NUM;  (not sure if that
> > matters, or can i just create a wrapper which handles longs?)
> >
> > anyhow..for my wrapper I have this..
> >
> > static PyObject *wrap_doNumberStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject args) {
> >     char *in = 0;
> >     char *x = 0;
> >     long *result = 0;
> >     int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &in, &x);
> >     if (!ok) return 0;
> >
> >     result = doNumberStuff(in, x);
> >
> >     return Py_BuildValue("l", result);
> > }
> >
> > ...my question is...in the c code, result is a pointer to an array of
> > longs, how can I get the returned result to be a list or something
> > similar to an array in Python?
> >
> > ...I also have a function which returns a character array (denoted by a
> > char *)...would it work the same as the previous question?
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
> Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms!
> ----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 15:38:04 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 12:38:04 -0700
Subject: Fund raising for SPE (Python IDE) on Mac Os X is great success!!
Message-ID: <1129837084.074460.51840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed, especially Richard Brown
from Dartware and Rick Thomas. I'm highly impressed that the smallest
user base of SPE collected the largest donation ever to SPE. Now it's
my turn to impress the SPE Mac users.

As such the light is green for SPE on the Mac. First I will buy a Mac
and get used to it. Then I will optimize SPE for the Mac and try to
release simultaneously. Be patient as this will take some time. The
next releases (0.7) will be based on work I did before. But from 0.8
releases SPE will also be tested & developed on Mac.

Please subscribe to the mailing list as a developer, user and/or mac
user. Of course donations are still welcome.

Stani

http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From usgog at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 15:27:36 2005
From: usgog at yahoo.com (usgog at yahoo.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 12:27:36 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <86slule9vy.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86slule9vy.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1130527656.685340.235470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hm...Is there a way to get rid of the newline in "print"?



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 12:53:36 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:53:36 +0100
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
In-Reply-To: <4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>	<mailman.2125.1129436361.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <dj0kug$225$1@sea.gmane.org>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> skip at pobox.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>    Madhusudan> Is it possible to convert a very long list of strings to a
>>    Madhusudan> list of floats in a single statement ?
>>
>>    Madhusudan> I have tried float(x) and float(x[:]) but neither work. I
>>    Madhusudan> guess I would have to write a loop if there isn't a way.
>>
>>Try:
>>
>>    >>> los = ["123.0", "2", "1e-6"]
>>    >>> map(float, los)
>>    [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]
>>    >>> [float(s) for s in los]
>>    [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]
>>
>>Skip
> 
> 
> Thanks. Now, a slightly more complicated question.
> 
> Say I have two lists of floats. And I wish to generate a list of floats that
> is a user defined function of the two lists.
> 
> I tried :
> 
> def rpyth(x,y):
>     r=sqrt(pow(x,2.0)+pow(y,2.0))
>     return r
> 
> r1n=map(rpyth,x2n[1:len(x2n)-1],y2n[1:len(y2n)-1])
> 
> And I get an error complaining about floats.

... but the error message is a secret so you don't want to tell us what 
it was? It's more helpful if you actually copied and pasted the exact 
error traceback you see, as this avoids any potential answerer having to 
guess what went wrong.

A brief description of what you were trying to do is also helpful, since 
it isn't obvious at first glance why you are omitting some of hte list 
elements.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Oct 10 11:27:14 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:27:14 -0500
Subject: Default argument to __init__
In-Reply-To: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17226.34898.484673.486203@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    vaibhav> Here's a piece of Python code and it's output. The output that
    vaibhav> Python shows is not as per my expectation. Hope someone can
    vaibhav> explain to me this behaviour:
    ...


Yes, your default arg is evaluated once, at method definition time and
shared betwee all instances of MyClass.  See the thread last week on the
same thing for more detail.

Skip


From Email_Gateway at kingswaygroup.com  Fri Oct 28 02:33:45 2005
From: Email_Gateway at kingswaygroup.com (Email_Gateway at kingswaygroup.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:33:45 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Virus found in a message you sent
Message-ID: <20051028063345.5BA051E4002@bag.python.org>

A virus was found in a message sent by this
account.

--- Scan information follows ---

Result: Virus Detected
Virus Name: W32.Mydoom.gen at mm
File Attachment: document.ex_
Attachment Status: deleted

--- Original message information follows ---

From: python-list at python.org
To: may.lau at kingswaygroup.com
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:26:47 -1200
Received: from python.org ([210.3.29.131])
 by pop3.kingswaygroup.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2005102814334104824
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From adsheehan at eircom.net  Mon Oct 24 06:31:25 2005
From: adsheehan at eircom.net (adsheehan at eircom.net)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 03:31:25 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python - Sharing memory among scripts, threads
In-Reply-To: <1129897094.417949.181120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129897094.417949.181120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130149885.504714.257230@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Any ideas?



From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  7 15:07:56 2005
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (alainpoint at yahoo.fr)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 12:07:56 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1706.1128701619.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1690.1128693730.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128694071.902605.201440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1706.1128701619.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128712076.122513.18090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Steve Holden wrote:
>Consider:

 >>> a = {1:'one'}
 >>> b = {2:'two'}
 >>> c = {1:'one'}
 >>> a is c
False
 >>> a in [b, c]
True
 >>>


>What would you have Python do differently in these circumstances?

You mean: What i would do i if i was the benevolent dictator ?
I would make a distinction between mutables and immutables. Immutables
would test for equality and mutables would test for identity.
Membership testing for objects is a very common use case which is
totally unrelated to their being sorted according to a key.
I am no expert on languages so i could be wrong. Don't hesitate to
correct me.
Alain



From jg.lists at sympatico.ca  Tue Oct 11 12:53:43 2005
From: jg.lists at sympatico.ca (Jim Gallacher)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:53:43 -0400
Subject: mod_python
In-Reply-To: <1129016557.060339.136600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129016557.060339.136600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434BEE17.2010708@sympatico.ca>

Python_it wrote:
> Today I was busy to install mod_python.
> 
> I have put the line
> 
> LoadModule python_module libexec/mod_python.so
> 
> into the httpd.conf file.
> It Works!
> Apache load mod_python /3.2.2.b Python2.4
> 
> But my problem is where I have to place te following code in de
> httpd.conf?
> 
>     <Directory C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\>
>         AddHandler mod_python .py
>         PythonHandler mptest
>         PythonDebug On
>     </Directory>
> 
> Because al the tutorials write this. But where?
> 
> If I try to put the code some where,
> apache give the following message by testing the configure:
> Multiple <Directory> arguments not (yet) supported
> But what i have to change or replace.

Your problem is not related to the location of the <Directory> section. 
Apache doesn't like spaces in <Directory>, so try quoting your path. 
Also, the Apache docs state that "forward slashes should always be used 
as the path separator in Apache, even for Windows".

So try the following in your config file:
   <Directory "C:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs/project/">.

> I test with the next file:
> 
> C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\
> mptest.py
> 
> from mod_python import apache
> 
> def handler(req):
>    req.content_type = 'text/plain'
>    req.send_http_header()
>    req.write('mptest.py\n')
>    return apache.OK
> 
> Is this code enough for testing?
> 

Yes.

You are more likely to get timely help on the mod_python mailing list. 
See http://www.modpython.org/ for subscription information. Personally I 
only read c.l.p when I'm looking for cheap entertainment. Some people on 
this list just crack me up. :)

Regards,
Jim


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 22 05:56:42 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:56:42 -0400
Subject: C replacement for Queue module
In-Reply-To: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfGdnTXGf-tbkcfeRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> I'm working on an application that makes heavy use of Queue objects in
> a multithreaded environment.
> 
> By "heavy" I mean "millions of calls to put and get, constituting ~20%
> of the app's run time."  The profiler thinks that a significant amount
> of time is spent in this code -- not just a consumer waiting for a
> producer, but actual _empty, notify calls, etc.

I wonder if the use case would support hand-crafting an alternative. 
Queues appear fairly heavy weight (when you look at the implementation), 
and while they are very robust, if your own needs allow putting many 
items in at the same time, or getting many items out, for example, then 
perhaps you could come up with a much faster alternative based on the 
primitives (e.g. Event, Condition, etc) and perhaps some wrapped data 
structure other than the list that Queues use.

-Peter


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct 25 10:06:55 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:06:55 -0700
Subject: pyxpcom and firefox
References: <crq7f.7536$Zv5.88@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <1130249215.612363.36310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> I write this post here because I do not manage to get in touch with mozilla
> dev people:

[...]

> 1) has anyone compiled/installed pyxpcom with firefox 1.5xx ?
> 2) is there a plan to make it a .xpi (the pyxpcom xpi for mozilla does not
> install into firefox).

I can't answer these questions, unfortunately, but you may be better
off asking them on the pyxpcom mailing list:

http://listserv.activestate.com/mailman/listinfo/pyxpcom

Paul



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 22:12:11 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:12:11 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2452.1130118098.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h4wfoz.q84tcv1tjyxxeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Durdin <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/24/05, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I may branch out into more advanced stuff such as asking
> > for an example use case for a closure, a custom descriptor, or an import
> > hook, for example
> 
> Isn't that approaching things from the wrong angle? You're asking them
> to synthesise a problem for a given solution, rather than analyse a
> problem to determine an appropriate solution. Asking questions like
> these tests memory more than competence -- for example, if you ask me
> of a use case for a closure, the only answer I could give would be to
> remember a problem I'd solved in the past using one.

And why do you think that would be wrong?  If you've used closures, you
know what you've used them for, and (I would hope) why.  If you've never
used them, you're welcome to answer "I have no idea why anybody would
wanna use THAT crazy thing for" (I always give points for honesty;-), or
else try to bluff your way through (sorry, no points for chutzpah!-).

I don't know of any issue that could be solved ONLY by a closure (we
didn't have closures in 1.5.2 yet we made out excellently well
anyhow;-), after all.  The point is, does the candidate really
understand closures (ideally by practical experience)?  Within the
limited confines of a less-than-an-hour interview (which is what we
normally use -- several interviewers, but no more than about 45 minutes
each, with different focus for each interviewer) I believe that asking
for use cases is a perfectly good way to gauge if a candidate fully
understands (ideally by experience) a certain language feature.

It's not just Python, btw.  When I'm asked to focus on C++ skills, I
will similarly ask, e.g., what a use case would be for virtual
inheritance, say.  How ELSE would you gauge, within that very limited
time-span, a candidate's grasp of some advanced language feechur?-)


Alex


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 08:58:03 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:58:03 +1000
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:31:53 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:

> "jon" <jon_usenet at capisco.com> wrote in message 
> news:1129216693.445956.155490 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> To take the heat out of the discussion:
>>
>> sets are blazingly fast.
> 
> I'd prefer a (however) rough characterization
> of computational complexity in terms of Big-Oh
> (or Big-whatever) *anytime* to marketing-type
> characterizations like this one...

Oh how naive.

The marketing department says: "It's O(N), so it is blindingly fast."

Translation: the amount of computation it does is linearly proportional
to N. The constant of proportionality is 1e10.

The marketing department says: "Our competitor's product is O(N**2), so it
runs like a three-legged dog."

Translation: the amount of computation it does is linearly proportional to
N squared. The constant of proportionality is 1e-100.

You do the maths.

Big O notation is practically useless for judging how fast a single
algorithm will be, or how one algorithm compares to another. It is only
useful for telling you how a single algorithm will scale as the input
increases.

It is very common for sensible programmers to fall back on a "less
efficient" O(N**2) or even O(2**N) algorithm for small amounts of data, if
that algorithm runs faster than the "more efficient" O(N) or O(log N)
algorithm. In fact, that's exactly what the sort() method does in Python:
for small enough lists, say, under 100 elements, it is quicker to run an
O(N**2) algorithm (shell sort I believe) than it is to perform the
complex set up for the merge-sort variant used for larger lists.

As for sets, they are based on dicts, which are effectively hash tables.
Hash tables are O(1), unless there are collisions, in which case the more
common algorithms degenerate to O(N). So, a very rough and ready estimate
of the complexity of the algorithm using sets would be somewhere between
O(1) and O(N) depending on the details of Python's algorithms.

So, let's do an experiment, shall we?

from sets import Set
import time

def compare_and_separate_with_sets(A, B):
    AB = Set(A+B)
    A = Set(A)
    B = Set(B)
    only_A = list(A-B)
    only_B = list(B-A)
    both_AB = list(AB - Set(only_A+only_B))
    return (only_A, only_B, both_AB)

def timeit(f, args, n):
    """Time function f when called with *args. For timing purposes, 
    does n calls of f. Returns the average time used per call in seconds.
    """
    loopit = range(n)
    t = time.time()
    for i in loopit:
        results = f(*args)
    t = time.time() - t
    return t/n

def single_test(N):
    print ("N = %-8d" % N), 
    A = range(N)
    B = range(N/2, 3*N/2)
    return timeit(compare_and_separate_with_sets, (A, B), 20)

def test_Order():
    # test how compare_and_separate_with_sets scales with size
    for i in range(7):
        print single_test(10**i)


Now run the test code:

py> test_Order()
N = 1        0.000219106674194
N = 10       0.000135183334351
N = 100      0.000481128692627
N = 1000     0.0173740386963
N = 10000    0.103679180145
N = 100000   0.655336141586
N = 1000000  8.12827801704

In my humble opinion, that's not bad behaviour. It looks O(log N) to me,
and quite fast too: about 8 seconds to compare and separate two lists of
one million items each.

The craziest thing is, the amount of time it took to write and test two
different algorithms was probably 1% of the time it would take to hunt up
theoretical discussions of what the big O behaviour of the algorithms
would be.



-- 
Steven.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  2 19:06:37 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:06:37 +1000
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.02.23.06.37.133698@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 12:05:53 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> I just don't understand your point here.  Yes, you can do all those
> things and leak any variable.  However, if you want to NOT leak some
> particular variable, "private" lets you code in a way that lets you
> easily confirm that you didn't leak it.

I think folks are missing an important point here.

The philosophy of dynamic languages like Python is that the class designer
shouldn't be the only one who decides whether or not a particular variable
should be private or public. The designer can *suggest*, but not force.
The class user is free to ignore that suggestion.

The class designer is assumed to know their class best, and therefore be
in a position to know what variables are dangerous or inconvenient to leak
and which are not. But the class user is the person who knows their own
needs best, and therefore best to know whether their needs are such that
they are willing to take that risk. Why should the class designer get a
monopoly on deciding what the class user can or cannot do?

If you believe that the class designer should have the privilege of
prohibiting certain uses of the class, you will vote for private
variables. If you believe that the class users should have more freedom,
you will vote against them.

"Truly" private variables have an advantage of making the class designer's
life somewhat easier -- not much, but a little. But that advantage comes
at the cost of making the class user's life somewhat harder -- not much,
but a little -- by restricting what they can do. Your private variable may
be just what they need to solve some problem you never even thought of.

Python cannot be all things to all people, although it can be many things.
There are always trade-offs to be made. Java makes the trade-off one way,
Python the other.


-- 
Steven.



From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Fri Oct 14 07:20:39 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:20:39 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndkv547.brdr.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

In article <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list at python.org>, 
Kenneth McDonald wrote:

> 4) Ease of installation/use on OS X?

There are two questions which may restrict your choice
rather a lot:

#1 Should the UI look the same on each platform or should it
   look the same as all other apps on the platform?

#2 Are you trying to make a simple installation package which
   includes everything needed?

With OS X compatibility you tend to come across with the
fact that many "OS X compatible" things are actually X11
things. X11 certainly looks different from Aqua (the native
interface). Also, X11 is not always installed, and some
unixish things require using Fink to install them. Not
something Joe A. User usually has on his Mac.

GTK is an example of this. There is an Aqua version of
GTK, but it seems to be rather outdated. The newer versions
run on X11 but installing them may be just laborious or
then plain pain depending on your luck. And you still need
the X11 installed.

So, if you are looking for something that looks like Mac
and works like Mac, do not touch anything with X11. OTOH,
if you just need to get something working on your own
OS X computer, then X11 is fine.

---

I have tried using wxPython for Mac/Windows cross-platform
GUIs. This far it seems to work fine, but I have not tried
anything very fancy. Mac applications have the OS X looks,
and Windows applications look Windowsish. Without having
a single line of platform-dependent code.

Making simple installation files (exe for Windows and dmg
for OS X) seems to work, as well. So, the installation should
be easy for the user.

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From pdirezze at rogers.com  Tue Oct 11 08:51:28 2005
From: pdirezze at rogers.com (Paul DiRezze)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:51:28 -0400
Subject: Learning Python
In-Reply-To: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <P5KdnTV8YKn4KNbeRVn-vg@rogers.com>

These are all great suggestions.

Thanks to all who replied.

paul


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 31 18:24:13 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:24:13 GMT
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2742.1130786847.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1130768592.010756.97890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2005.10.31.15.58.47.813776@virgilio.it>
	<mailman.2742.1130786847.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xIx9f.20945$kd.11266@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Steve Holden wrote:
> Francesco Bochicchio wrote:
> 
>> Il Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:23:12 -0800, dakman at gmail.com ha scritto:
>>
>>
>>> And yet the stupidity continues, right after I post this I finnally
>>> find an answer in a google search, It appears the way I seen it is to
>>> create a class for each button and have it call the method within that.
>>> If anyone else has any other ideas please tell.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is  how I do it: Supposing I have three buttons b1, b2 and b3, and I
>> want for each button to call the same callback with, as argument, the
>> button itself:
>>
>>
>> def common_callback(button):
>>     # callback code here
>>
>>
>> class CallIt(objetc):
>>     def __init__(function, *args ):
>>         self.function, self.args = function, args
>>     def __call__(self, *ignore):
>>         self.function(button, *self.args)
>>
>> b1['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b1)
>> b2['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b2)
>> b3['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b3)
>>
>> This way you need only one class (a sort of custom callable) and
>> its instances gets called by Tkinter and in turn calls your
>> callback with the proper arguments.
>>
> I don't see why this is preferable to having the callback as a bound 
> method of the button instances. What's the advantage here? It looks 
> opaque and clunky to me ...

I'm not sure on the advantage either.  I just recently started handling 
my buttons with button id's.

     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
         ...

         b1 = Tk.Button( frame, text=button,
                         command=self.command(button) )
         ...

The button label is used as the id above, but a number or code could 
also be used.

     def command(self, id):
         """ Assign a command to an item.
             The id is the value to be returned.
         """
         def do_command():
             self.exit(event=id)
         return do_command

In this case it's a dialog button so it calls the exit method which sets 
self.return to the button id before exiting.

Cheers,
    Ron


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sat Oct  1 19:43:11 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 00:43:11 +0100
Subject: A rather unpythonic way of doing things
In-Reply-To: <37ll1gci8v.fsf@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
References: <37ll1gci8v.fsf@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510020042240.22776@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005, Peter Corbett wrote:

> One of my friends has recently taken up Python, and was griping a bit 
> about the language (it's too "prescriptive" for his tastes). In 
> particular, he didn't like the way that Python expressions were a bit 
> crippled. So I delved a bit into the language, and found some sources of 
> syntactic sugar that I could use, and this is the result:
>
> http://www.pick.ucam.org/~ptc24/yvfc.html

It's this sort of thing that makes it clear beyond all shadow of a doubt 
that Cambridge should be razed to the ground.

Keep up the good work.

tom

-- 
I'm not quite sure how that works but I like it ...


From timr at probo.com  Sun Oct  2 02:15:48 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 06:15:48 GMT
Subject: What encoding is used when initializing sys.argv?
References: <dhjcs9$1ui$1@news.contactel.cz>
	<xgj%e.3722$U51.2239@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <7ouuj119k1sd5sgkeq8g38fp99s8lge3ga@4ax.com>

Neil Hodgson <nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Petr Prikryl:
>
>> ... I have discovered that
>> I do not understand what encoding should be used
>> to convert the sys.argv into unicode.
>
>    Martin mentioned CP_ACP. In Python on Windows, this can be accessed 
>as the "mbcs" codec.
>
>import sys
>print repr(sys.argv[1])
>print repr(unicode(sys.argv[1], "mbcs"))
>
>C:\bin>python glurp.py abc??
>'abc\xdf\x95'
>u'abc\xdf\u2022'

There's another entry in my "keep this post forever" file.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 11 10:37:22 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:37:22 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1730.1128721878.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdtk2t4kksp25@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.1856.1128978383.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11knjh2g01gsded@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-10, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>> Cool.  While we're on the topic, has anybody else noticed that
>> "guys" is acceptible and commonly used to refer to a group of
>> women, 
>
> Yeah, though it depends on where you are.

I assumed you could tell that from my accent. :)

>> Likewise, "dude" is often used when addressing a female but
>> almost never when speaking about one in the third person.

>
> This I have never witnessed.  That's bizarre.

At least in the upper midwest it seems quite common for
teen-age boys/girls to address each other as "dude".  For
example

"Dude, you have got to go to the concert with us".

But, if somebody refers to "that dude over there in the blue
jaket," the "dude" is invariably a male.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I am NOT a nut....
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From bonono at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 08:35:41 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 05:35:41 -0700
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130330141.634726.150330@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

oops, stand corrected. As I don't use the feature more than ctrl-r and
up/down arrow.

Tim Golden wrote:
> Thanks to both of you. But that much I already knew. It's not
> that I have *no* knowledge about readline: I did at least
> read the manuals when I got stuck! But as far as I can tell
> from my experience and from the docs -- and I'm not near a
> Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall line x
> in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2 etc.
> Or can you?
>
> (Sorry guys; I realise this is more stuff for comp.os.linux or
> comp.commandlineshells.bash or whatever it's called. But if
> someone *did* know the answer, I'd be really happy!)
>
> TJG
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> ________________________________________________________________________



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Oct 19 05:08:08 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 09:08:08 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<slrndlbr29.146.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>
	<6u1cl1dvqaac21klrqsoumsoh0ugrbom9e@4ax.com>
	<dj51ul$4kq$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <Xns96F42A1194B48castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Jerzy Karczmarczuk <karczma at info.unicaen.fr> wrote:

[ this thread ]
> The pollution *is* there, despite the possibility of individual
> screening. The subject and the contents violates some basic nsgroup
> principles, such as topicality. One to ten irrelevant postings do no
> harm. More than hundred - become annoying. Cross-posting to 5 groups
> is bad. Please go away.

The problem is that adding "please stop, please go away" postings to this 
thread have 0 effect. Or worse, people posting such messages, and tweaking 
the FollowUp-To: header resulting in more and more pollution.

It doesn't work, sad but true. Best is to kill the entire thread, hope the 
long discussion stays in it, and dies out, and doesn't spark similar 
discussions.

Also refraining from posting to any thread started by Xah Lee (I guess it 
was "our" troll again), no matter how tempting, might help (I am going to 
try, again).

> Claiming that this is an interesting, "great" thread is utterly silly
> in this context. Shall Python newsgroup discuss the trial of Saddam
> Hussein as well? 

And should it be crossposted to: comp.lang.perl.misc, comp.unix.programmer, 
comp.lang.java.programmer, and comp.os.linux.misc?


-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From jwkenne at attglobal.net  Tue Oct 18 14:08:01 2005
From: jwkenne at attglobal.net (John W. Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:08:01 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <bSa5f.15276$Hm3.12093@fe09.lga>

joe at invalid.address wrote:
> "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne at attglobal.net> writes:
> 
> 
>>Michael Heiming wrote:
>>
>>>Let's not forget about the Internet, they invented together with
>>>Al Gore and of course the wheel!
>>
>>No fair picking on Al Gore. All he ever claimed was that he was the
>>Congressional point man for the "Information Superhighway", which he
>>was.
> 
> 
> Well, what he said was
> 
>   "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
>    initiative in creating the Internet."
> 
> What you say he did is what he actually did, but what he said gives a
> different impression. I don't think he's careless or stupid, so I
> think he said that in order to create the impression in the minds of
> the people listening to the interview that he's responsible for the
> internet. 

For "the Internet" as 99% of the American people comprehend it, he /was/ 
largely responsible, on the political end. The fact that the 
"Information Superhighway" turned out to be implemented as a massive 
explosion of the former ARPANet was an unforeseeable accident of 
history, resulting from the coincidental timing of the "Information 
Superhighway" initiative, the introduction of the Web, and (to some 
degree) the ARPANet worm.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"The pathetic hope that the White House will turn a Caligula into a 
Marcus Aurelius is as na?ve as the fear that ultimate power inevitably 
corrupts."
   -- James D. Barber (1930-2004)


From mynews44 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 16:39:17 2005
From: mynews44 at yahoo.com (googleboy)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 13:39:17 -0700
Subject: A question about searching with multiple strings
Message-ID: <1129927157.674735.13000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Hi there.

I have defined a class called Item with several (about 30 I think)
different attributes (is that the right word in this context?).  An
abbreviated example of the code for this is:

class Item(object):

	def __init__(self, height, length, function):
		params = locals()
		del params['self']
		self.__dict__.update(params)
	def __repr__(self):

		all_items = self.__dict__.items()
		return '%s,%s,%s' % (self.height, self.length, self.function)



I have a csv file that I use to store and retrieve all the info about
each Item, one item per line.

I have written a little peice of python that lets me search through all
Items (after reading them into a variable called all_items) and will
return matching results:



for item in all_items:

	strItem = str(item)

	m = re.search(p[i], strItem, flags = re.I)
	if m:
		height = getattr(item, "height")
		length = getattr(item, "length")
		function = getattr(item, "function")
		print "height is %s, length is %s and function is %s" % height,
length, function



This has the limitation of only working over a single search item.  I
want to be able to search over an uncontrollable number of search
strings because I will have people wanting to search over 2, 3 or even
(maybe) as many as 5 different things.

I was thinking that I would try to write a function that created a
sublist of Items if it matched and then run subsequent searches over
the subsequent search strings using this sublist.

I am not entirely sure how to store this subset of Items in such a way
that I can make searches over it.  I guess I have to initialize a
variable of type Item, which I can use to add matching Item's to,  but
I have no idea how to do that....(If it was just a list I could say
"sublist = []",  what do I use for self defined classes?  I Am also
usure how to go about creating a function that will accept any number
of parameters.

Any assistance with these two questions will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

googleboy



From popo01 at msn.com  Sat Oct 15 22:25:43 2005
From: popo01 at msn.com (John Irby)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:25:43 -0600
Subject: Newbie help
Message-ID: <BAY5-DAV34E790C53DF4065C9A5A6C47F0@phx.gbl>

Francis Girard:

Here is the code you are looking for if I read you right: 

# Michael Dawson - 1/8/03                               
                              
import random                               
print "\tWelcome to 'Guess My Number'!"
print "\nI'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10."
# I have randrange set to 10 for debugging. 3 is even faster.
print "Try to guess it in under three attempts.\n"
# set the initial values
counter = 1   #     I had to set counter to = 1 for this to work right.
the_number = random.randrange(10) + 1         # but it is bug free.
guess = int(raw_input("Take a guess: "))                                  
# guessing loop                                         
while (guess != the_number):                            
    if counter >= 3:   # this statement had to go up top                                 
        print 'Game over! Your 3 tries are up.'
        break         # OKAY! Using break after "game over" is perfect!
    elif (guess > the_number):
        print "Lower..."
    else:
        print "Higher..."
    counter += 1   
    guess = int(raw_input("Take a guess: "))
      
else:
    print "You guessed it!  The number was", the_number
    
    if counter >=2:
        print "And it only took you", counter, "tries!\n"
    else:
        print "and it only took you 1 try!\n"  # check this out!

# this solution sure took me long enough! What I can't help you with 
# is how great it would make you feel to do it yourself.
# a fellow newbie.



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From correia_jREMOVECAPS at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 21 13:43:33 2005
From: correia_jREMOVECAPS at hotmail.com (J Correia)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:43:33 GMT
Subject: Searching for txt file and importing to ms access
References: <dj8f1r$do7$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Message-ID: <9N96f.38924$Io.6161@clgrps13>

"Mark Line" <mline at abilitec.com> wrote in message
news:dj8f1r$do7$1 at nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Hello!
>
>
<snip>

> I've also managed to connect to my access database, and just print out a
> field in a table, but I cant find anywhere on the web that will help me to
> import data?  Any help would be great?!
>
>
<snip>

Another method of talking to MS Access is to set up an ODBC datasource...
Control Panel > Data Sources (ODBC).   Then download and import
the mx.ODBC module... this worked a lot faster in my setup than using the
win32com route and i find the clear SQL layout simpler to understand.

Attached is some sample code I used to quickly get some data from SQL Server,
process it, and load into Access, both set up as ODBC data sources.

<Python Code>
import mx.ODBC.Windows

dbc1 = mx.ODBC.Windows.Connect('<SQLServer source>', user='<user>',
password='xxx', clear_auto_commit=0)
dbc2 = mx.ODBC.Windows.Connect('<MS Access source>', user='<user>',
password='xxx', clear_auto_commit=0)

    # Create cursors on databases.
    crsr1 = dbc1.cursor()
    crsr2 = dbc2.cursor()

    # Get record(s)  from SQL Server database.
    try:
        crsr1.execute(
            """
            SELECT product_id, image
            FROM SUP_CATALOGUE_PRODUCT
            """)
    except Exception, err:
        print "*** Error extracting records from SQL Server***"
        print "Exception:", Exception, "Error:", err
        sys.exit()
    else:
        results = crsr1.fetchall()      # fetch the results all at once into a
list.
        if not len(results):     # No records found to be processed.
            print "No records returned from SQL Server table, aborting..."
            sys.exit()
        else:                   # Have records to work with, continue processing
            print len(results), "records to be updated..."

            i = 0
            for item in results:
                ....
                ....  < processing of each record goes here.>
                ....

                # Now update 1 record in the Access table.
                try:
                    crsr2.execute(
                        """
                        UPDATE SUP_CATALOGUE_PRODUCT
                        SET image = '%s'
                        WHERE product_id = %d
                        """   %   (new_image, product_id)
                        )
                except Exception, err:
                    print "*** Error updating records in MS Access***"
                    print "Exception:", Exception, "Error:", err
                    sys.exit()

                i += 1

            print "All done... records written:", i

</Python Code>


HTH,

JC




From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:04:14 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:04:14 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<llrik1ph4mpkud83t9qpnjks533vpkv24e@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.22.49.29.840592@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<20051010004218.03171fb6.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu>
Message-ID: <r12rk11qa3h12ot0a194vca0e11pt1n3ih@4ax.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:42:18 +0200, Stefaan A Eeckels
<tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu> wrote or quoted :

>"I don't understand that attitude.  Don't we want email that has dancing
> bears, cute little videos, musical tunes, animated waving hands, sixty
> fonts, and looks like it's been done with crayolas? Good grief, man,
> think like a three year old!"

that excuse could also be used to explain why you have not cracked a
book since high school.  The same tools that create dancing bears can
do a UML diagram.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Sun Oct 23 13:20:38 2005
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:20:38 -0400
Subject: calling a dylib in python on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1130049617.186896.237650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130049617.186896.237650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <483b4$435bc667$4275d90a$440@FUSE.NET>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

robspychala at gmail.com wrote:
| Hi
|
| Is there something similar to python's windll for calling DLLs on win32
| but meant for calling dylib's on OS X?
|
| thanks,
|
| r.s.
|
Can you be more specific about what you are trying to do/what dylib you
want to call?


- --
Cheers,

Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software - "Tame the Terminal"
http://www.wordtech-software.com
sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDW8ZmJmdQs+6YVcoRAvKPAJ0TUW8hgRN6AOn/nBP1v12kqmLXrQCfc5B1
uVv3uBAz7I/jO7l/htpuTb0=
=oXiv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Oct 26 04:04:56 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:04:56 -0700
Subject: a Haskell a Day
In-Reply-To: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aaidnTo6OOM1pcLeRVn-sg@speakeasy.net>

Xah Lee wrote:

> This is my learning notes on Haskell. I call it a-Haskell-a-day.

Another day, another community to completely piss of, huh, Xah?

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Never take a stranger's advice / Never let a friend fool you twice
   -- Florence, _Chess_


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Thu Oct 20 16:50:42 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:50:42 +0200
Subject: Popularity of blogging tools used by python programmers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4357f98c$0$18772$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Stewart Midwinter a ?crit :
> I've made a comparison of the relative popularity of blogging tools
> used by python programmers.  I was surprised by the number of python
> developers not using python for their blogs; isn't that like GM
> employees driving Toyota cars?
> 
> See my post at:
> 
> http://midtoad.homelinux.org/wp/?p=117
> 

Could it be say that Python programmers are wise enough to reinvent the 
wheel ?-)

(just kidding...)


From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 28 14:53:22 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:53:22 -0400
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43627179$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com wrote:
> I want to scan a file byte for byte for occurences of the the four byte
> pattern 0x00000100. 

data = sys.stdin.read()
print data.count('\x00\x00\x01\x00')

Kent


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Oct 11 21:17:08 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:17:08 -0500
Subject: Python name lookups / Interning strings
In-Reply-To: <20051011223606.89640.qmail@web30611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051011223606.89640.qmail@web30611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200510112017.08618.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Tuesday 11 October 2005 05:36 pm, Dave wrote:
> What exactly does it mean to "intern" a string?

For very simple strings such as "A" and for strings
used as identifiers (I think), Python creates a permanent
object during byte-code compilation.  Thereafter, any
time that string value occurs in the program, it will
actually be interpreted as a reference to the interned
string object with that value.

So, if for example, "A" is interned, then statements
like:

>>> a = "A"
>>> b = "A"

will result not only in:

>>> a == b
True

but also

>>> a is b
True

Note that since 'a is b' always implies 'a == b', the
interpreter needn't do a full value comparison of interned
strings, it can stop when it sees they are references
to the same object.

Whereas, for an un-interned string:

>>> a = "I don't think Python will intern this string."
>>> b = "I don't think Python will intern this string."
>>>
>>> a==b
True
>>> a is b
False

Now, however, 'a==b' must do an actual string comparison,
and is therefore somewhat slower.


--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 23 17:29:55 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:29:55 +0100
Subject: IDE recommendation please
In-Reply-To: <435b627c$0$20493$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<435b627c$0$20493$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <djgvcd$br$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gian Mario Tagliaretti wrote:
> microsnot wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm new to Python but am wondering what IDE Python developers use? I use
>>Mac OS X 10.4.2. I have PythonIDE which comes with MacPython but I don't
>>think that has even rudimentary "intellisense". Xcode and Eclipse don't
>>seem to support Python out of the box. Suggestions for plugins for Eclipse
>>would also be nice.
> 
> 
> I use wingIDE and as Alex said before is the best python IDE ever...
> 
> cheers

I too am a happy Wing IDE user. The debugging features are very convenient.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 27 07:46:18 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:46:18 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <djqema$o7e$1@sadr.dfn.de>

David Schwartz wrote:
> Roedy Green wrote:
<snip>
> competing products. (Just as Burger King corporate will not you sell Big 
> Macs in the same store in which you sell Whoppers.)

Rather odd comparison don't you think ?

A better comparison would be if Burger King purchases the fries from a 
factory that says that Burger King has to give out a pack of fries with 
all meals, regardless of the type of meal, or they are going to raise 
the price. In other words, you'll be forced to take a pack of fries with 
your ice cream, salad or what not. Considering that McDonalds have been 
selling meals with "potato-boats" (don't know the correct english term 
for it, carved potato pieces fried), they'd have to give you a pack of 
fries with your meal regardless, even if you want to replace the fries 
with "potato-boats".

Also, in this case Burger King "won't sell you" is not the same as 
"can't sell you", which seems to be the case with this whole Microsoft 
discussion. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to easily buy a 
computer from Microsoft with OS/2 installed or vice versa either and I'm 
not sure they would be obliged to do so either. However, controlling 
what an independant outlet is doing, that's different.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Thu Oct 27 05:07:42 2005
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:07:42 GMT
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
In-Reply-To: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de>
References: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <yN08f.7237$7h7.6636@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
 > I have a list of items and a "rule" for ordering them.
 >
 > Unfortunately, the rule is not complete so it won't define the correct
 > order for any two items in that list.

This is called a "partial ordering".

[...]
 > If there isn't anything built in, does anyone have an idea about how to
 > go about creating such an ordering function ? Tweaking a cmp-like
 > function to return 0 for "undefined" didn't seem to work so there must
 > be a slightly more intelligent solution than that. Perhaps the rules
 > would have to be checked in a specific order.

The usual tools to deal with partial orderings are directed acyclic graphs,
and "topological sorting".  Try Googling the terms along with "Python".


-- 
--Bryan


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 27 22:57:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:57:03 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86hdb2h750.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>
>>> "Ironically, while no one else has so much as compared MS to criminals 
>>> with
>>> guns". I defy you to find *one* place where I complain that MS behavior 
>>> is
>>> equated to the actual use of force where that is not in fact done in
>>> precisely the thread I'm replying to.
>
>> The first one is at:
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/8422f41c9fe137b0?dmode=source&hl=en
>>
>> The original comment was:
>>
>>>> No, they didn't ask for more than Windows were worth. They tilted the
>>>> playing field against MS competitors by causing consumers to pay MS
>>>> money for products they didn't receive. In most countries, taking
>>>> money from unwilling victims without giving them anything in exchange
>>>> is called "theft".
>>
>> Note that no mention is made of guns or force - just a definition of
>> theft. Unless you're so narrowminded that nothing short of pointing a
>> gun at someone and demanding money from them is stealing from them,
>> there is no way that this can be equated to the actual use of
>> force. And if you do believe that definition of stealing, I'll do your
>> bookkeeping for free - and I won't steal from you.
>>
>> Your reply:
>>
>>>    It is not theft if you can simply say "no" to the deal and all that
>>>happens is that you don't get the product. Your argument is preposterous. 
>>>If
>>>you accept arguments that equate guns with arguments, the next step is 
>>>that
>>>using a gun is a rational response to an argument one doesn't like. Oh 
>>>wait,
>>>you're already there.
>>
>> Wherein you accuse me of equating MS's actions with using guns, which
>> is *exactly* what I said you do.
>
>     This thread is large and complex, and I can't always know exactly what's 
> a reply to what reply to what. So what's said in what part of a thread may 
> carry over to another part of that same thread.

So follow the link and read it. I quoted the comment and reply
directly to make life easier on the readers. I quoted them exactly in
context. That you try and deny they illustrate you doing exactly what
I said you do is only to be expected.

>> There are lots more examples of you doing this kind of thing. Like I
>> said, everytime someone compares MS's behavior with some less
>> controversial criminal behavior, you act like they accused MS of
>> holding people up at gunpoint.
>
>     They are. Read the quotes. Here they are again:

So what? That doesn't change the essential truth of my statement -
that you react to *every* comparison of MS's activities with less
controversial criminal activity with the "You're comparing them to
criminals with guns. I won't discuss that." It really does make me
think that you're more interested in protecting MS's reputation than
in any discussinon.

>>Unless you're so narrowminded that nothing short of pointing a
>>gun at someone and demanding money from them is stealing from them,
>>there is no way that this can be equated to the actual use of
>>force. And if you do believe that definition of stealing, I'll do your
>>bookkeeping for free - and I won't steal from you.
>     You are seriously saying that people in this thread have not 
> consistently described Microsoft's actions as analogous to an actual use of 
> force? Have you read any of the thread? Do I need to dig out more quotes?

Yes, I've read the thread. It's full of you creating straw men,
calling those who disagree with you liars, calling the government
crooks, and the like. I'd be interested in seeing *one* quote that
compare MS's actions to the "actual use of force." And I want what I
gave you - the link to the google groups page the quote came from, and
enough context to find it.

The quote about the mafia doesn't compare MS's actions to "actual use
of force". It compares MS to people who are willing to use force to
get their ends. But there is no "actual use of force."


>     These are all from early in the thread, long before the posts you are 
> complaining about:
> "The choice was go along with MS arm twisting or go out of business."

No, this wasn't "long before" the post I quoted; it occured well after
it. And while this really does refer to the "actual use of force",
anyone even vaguely familiar with common english usage will recognize
the phrase "arm twisting" as an idiomatic usage for a being extremely
persuasive, with no "actual use of force" taking place. If that's the
best you can do, you really haven't got an argument.

> "To my way of thinking what MS did was similar to a the only magasine
> wholesaler in town telling retailers it had to sell kiddie porn under
> the table or pay full retail for all magazines."

No "actual use of force" in this one, either. This is a *very* apt
comparison. The only real difference between this and what MS did is
that it replaces something mildly objectionable - charging people for
something they aren't getting - with something very objectionable -
selling kiddie porn.

>     However, you may be right that some of my replies to you may not have 
> been justified as responses to just what you said. It'd take a lot of 
> digging through the thread to figure that out. ;)

Your replies to *everyone* who compares MS's criminal activities to
more obviously criminal activities have been that accues them of
equating MS's actions to using a gun - much nastier than simply "the
actual use of force" and then refusing to discuss the comparison. The
only explanation I can think of is that you are trying to prevent
people from realizing that MS is a criminal organization. That you
deny doing this is only to be expected, and I'll bet you deny it
again.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From martijn at gamecreators.nl  Tue Oct 11 05:48:58 2005
From: martijn at gamecreators.nl (martijn at gamecreators.nl)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 02:48:58 -0700
Subject: A faster shutil.rmtree or maybe a command.
Message-ID: <1129024138.029854.80350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

H!

Sometimes I must delete 2 very big directory's.
The directory's have a very large tree with much small file's in it.

So I use shutil.rmtree()
But its to slow.

Is there a faster method ?

I use FreeBsd 5.4.

---
is it maybe faster to walking in the directy en delete each file?

Thanks,
GC-Martijn



From ericwan78 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 16:40:11 2005
From: ericwan78 at yahoo.com (wanwan)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 13:40:11 -0700
Subject: confusion between global names and instantiated object variable names
Message-ID: <1129322411.776202.314290@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to make a GUI, but for some of the instantiated object
variable names, the interpreter is looking at them as global names.
Here is an example of what I did:


class mygui:


	def __init__(self, root):

		self.menubar = Menu(root)

		# Game Menu
		self.menu1 = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
		self.menu1.add_command(label="Open File", command=donothing)
		self.menu1.add_separator()
		self.menu1.add_command(label="Exit", command=root.quit)
		self.menubar.add_cascade(label="File", menu=self.menu1)

                # ignoring the rest of the program  ...


when I run my example, an error shows:
"NameError: global name'menubar' is not defined"

I wonder why it doesn't work.  Isn't that the way to define an object
variable?  

Any response would be appreciated.



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 10:42:06 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:42:06 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86y84rxryr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <2R75f.2005$dO2.1121@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86y84rxryr.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>> news:86fyqzzskt.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support 
>>>> and
>>>> what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both 
>>>> irrelevant.
>>> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser.
>> Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), that's
>> not a feasible goal.
>
> I guess you'd say developing any software isn't a feasible goal,
> because it'll never be bug-free, will never have bug-free compilers to
> compile it, bug-free linkers to link it, bug-free GUI/db/etc libraries
> to link with it, bug-free servers to communicate with, and bug-free
> operating systems to run it on. Fortunately, most developers aren't
> quite that anal, and realize that you can get useful work done in a
> less-than-perfect environment.

I'm not speaking theroetically. My company (though not me personally) 
creates browser-based UIs, and one of the biggest expenses has been dealing 
with IE rendering bugs   Given the market share of IE, the fact that 
something should work, and even does work in Firefox, Opera, etc, is 
irrelevant.  If it breaks IE, we can't use it.

When we've had similar issues with C++ compilers, patches have usually been 
forthcoming, or perhaps optimization has to be turned off on a few source 
files.  In a few areas, though, the solution has been "Don't do that", and 
again, the fact that the standard supports it is irrelevant.





From xah at xahlee.org  Sun Oct 30 13:47:58 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 10:47:58 -0800
Subject: learning emacs lisp
In-Reply-To: <1130267274.057695.116050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130241817.688203.320540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<85br1dydvn.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>
	<1130246810.318934.123570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130267274.057695.116050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130698078.823822.223300@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

well, in the past couple of days i started my own:
http://xahlee.org/emacs/notes.html

but i'm sure something like it exists.

Btw, the elisp intro by
Robert J Chassell. At:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/
is extremely well written.
(and so is the elisp reference)

Bravo to GNU & Freesoftware Foundation once again. Thank you.

PS Fuck unix and unix fuckheads. Fuck asshole Larry Wall. Fuck Python
documenation community and their fucking ass lying thru their teeth
ignorance fucking shit. (See:
 http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/gubni_papri.html)

Disclaimer: all mention of real person are opinion only.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/

rgb wrote:
> > i'm looking for something example based... for senior professional
> > programers who may want to pickup some elisp for practical macro.
>
> Unfortunately the path from any given language to Elisp varies vastly.
> For example a Prolog programmer would need far fewer tips than a Cobol
> or even a C programmer.  It's unlikely you will find something
> tailored to your specific experience.
>
> I'd already written programs in well over 100 languages in the 20
> years before learning Elisp yet I didn't find the intro terribly
> tedious until around section 13 (Counting).  At that point it switches
> focus toward examples of creating functions rather than introducing
> syntax and available features.  Perhaps starting at section 12 would
> suit your learning style better.
>
> As you probably realize, the language itself is just syntax and the
> hard part is learning about all the facilities at your disposal once
> you decide to write something.  There are a lot of features available
> and, although daunting, I think the reference is the best resource
> for discovering them.
> 
> This group has also been indispensable to me.



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 14 23:18:39 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:18:39 -0400
Subject: Help with creating a dict from list and range
References: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com><diojcm$vth$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2099.1129342011.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129346319.abc03660b95ff66215dd9905db5e4265@teranews>

"James Stroud" <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:

> Could be even simpler since enumerate creates tuples anyway:
>
> dct = dict(x for x in enumerate(description))
>
> James
>
> On Friday 14 October 2005 08:37, Steve Holden wrote:
> >  >>> dct = dict((x[1], x[0]) for x in enumerate(description))
> >  >>> dct
> >
> > {'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}


"James Stroud" wrote

> Could be even simpler since enumerate creates tuples anyway:
>
> dct = dict(x for x in enumerate(description))
>
> James
>
> On Friday 14 October 2005 08:37, Steve Holden wrote:
> >  >>> dct = dict((x[1], x[0]) for x in enumerate(description))
> >  >>> dct
> >
> > {'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}

Or even simplest :-)

dct = dict(enumerate(description))

George




From http  Thu Oct  6 15:31:53 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Oct 2005 12:31:53 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <mailman.1601.1128599433.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xu0fucuhi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> Without a clear idea of the nature of the proposal, it is impossible
> to assess it's costs and benefits. So could a proponent of optional
> declarations please provide a more clear proposal?

There is no proposal on the table.  There's a discussion of how this
stuff can work, and whether it's useful.  As for how the compiler
deals with imported modules, see for example Common Lisp or Haskell or
ML--how do they do it?


From mvanaswegen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 08:50:33 2005
From: mvanaswegen at gmail.com (vpr)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 05:50:33 -0700
Subject: wxPython question
Message-ID: <1129207833.953525.266880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi

Does anyone have some example code to create a wx dialog that apears
off screen on the bottom right hand corner and slides up into the
screen ?

Thanx

/vpr



From frank at chagford.com  Tue Oct 11 05:33:33 2005
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 02:33:33 -0700
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <3r1cmeFgbogbU2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r08l2Fgbm87U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129015921.510133.322350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<3r1cmeFgbogbU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129023213.759788.312270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > My scripts are used to create the tables in the database. I didn't
> > think that DB-API covered that.
>
> The DB-Api covers executin arbirary SQL - either DDL or DML. It is
> surely centered around DML, but that doesn't mean that its not usabel to
> issue "create ..." statements.
>
>  >However, even if it did, I don't think
> > it would handle differences such as the following.
>
> <snip>
>
> All that has nocthing to do with teh API - you'd still need your
> differentiated DDL - but the communication with the programs would go away.
>
> Diez

I understand. It certainly gives me an alternative approach - I will
experiment to see which suits my purpose best.

Many thanks for your assistance.

Frank



From benmorganpowell at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 04:00:25 2005
From: benmorganpowell at gmail.com (benmorganpowell at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 01:00:25 -0700
Subject: Spambayes modifications with web services
Message-ID: <1130486425.402338.123720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

In the last few months many personal website owners (such as myself)
have found that spammers have been using their domain names to
masquerade as valid users to send spam, normally in the form of:

JoeMarkBlogs at mydomain.com

This new tactic has an annoying problem, which is that the bounced
emails end up back with the postmaster at the innocent persons domain.
This is normally the first time that the domain owner realises that
there is a problem.

I am one of those people and currently have nearly 3 thousand bounces
in my catch all POP3 box.

Solutions I can see to this are one of two things:

1) Delete the email as it arrives and ignore it. Realise that the
domain name might end up being blacklisted as a spammer's domain and be
done with it, or

2) Fight back! All of the bounced emails contain at least one URI to a
spammer website, in a effort to sell "Cheap Meds" or "Faked Rolexes" or
similar. The format is usually something like this:

http://www.sickmate.info/?a2fb9e415e74beS9cdee919d78Sa6a7d

The query part of the URI I believe provides the reference between the
email address and the visit. Hence if you visit the website with this
link, your email address is saved in a database as one that is a)
valid, and b) dumb enough to visit the website.

The spammers rely on the fact that some people will visit this website
and buy from them. In fact, Q.E.D., some people must buy from these
websites via spam, otherwise the spammers would have given up a long
time ago*.

So, as a web programmer and someone who specialises in getting good
results on Google, I realised that I could simply post every spammer
website on a Google optimized page, which if searched for on Google
would return something like:

"WARNING: DO NOT BUY FROM THIS WEBSITE. THE SPAMMER IS A RUSSIAN MAFIA
CROOK WHO WILL STEAL YOUR MONEY."

...Or something equally obvious along those lines. In this way we
attack the websites that are the link between the spam and the money.
The real necessity therefore is to:

a) Process the received bounced messages quickly and list them on the
website without delay.
b) Prevent the spammer using the domain

The answer to (b) I cannot find. I thought SPF might help, but it is
not a panacea. The answer to (a) I need help with!

So, I'm on Windows XP. I use Outlook 2002 and I already have the
excellent (and FREE) SpamBayes Outlook add-in** that blocks spam and
loves ham. Spambayes is open source and as such I can modify the source
code, recompile it and install it afresh. However, the problem is that
I'm not a python programmer, and I'm not sure where to start. This is
what I want to do, so if anyone would like to direct me, I'd be
grateful:

1) Add a menu option to the SpamBayes add-in - "Post Spam Site to Web
Service". I'm guessing I can add a new line to the addin.py such as
below, but how do I sink the event?

self._AddControl(popup,
	constants.msoControlButton,
	ButtonEvent, (PostSpamSite, self.manager,),
	Caption="Post Spam Site to Web Service",
	Enabled=True,
	Visible=True,
	Tag = "SpamBayesCommand.PostSpam")

2) Add a configuration setting, so that the web service location can be
set. I'm guessing this is in config.py. Pointers welcome.

4) Add a function to extract all links in a block of text. I have
written a good one of these for .NET, but I'm not sure if, or how it
would work in Python:

string hrefPattern =
@"(?<all>(?:(?<protocol>http(?:s?)|ftp)(?:\:\/\/))"
		+ @"(?<domain>[^/\r\n\:]+)?"
		+ @"(?<port>\:\d+)?"
		+ @"(?<path>[^\?#]*)?"
		+ @"(?<qrystr>\?\w*)?"
		+ @"(?<bookmark>\#\w*)?)";

// Regular Expression
Regex hrefRegex = new Regex(hrefPattern, RegexOptions.Singleline |
RegexOptions.IgnorePatternWhitespace | RegexOptions.IgnoreCase);

Any help with this welcome. Do I need a specific Python regex library
or can I use the .NET regex library in Python?

4) Connect to web service using SOAP and consume that service. Service
will provide:

a) Authorise (username, password) - returns access
b) Submit (domain) - returns success or failure

Can I use SOAPpy for this? Can anyone give me any examples or point me
in the right direction?

5) Provide another option in the add in to "Scan folder and Post Spam
Sites to Web Service", in the same manner as "Filter messages" works
now. Can I use filter.py as a model to work from?

Summary
=================================
I am not a Python programmer per se but have no problem with getting my
hands dirty. I have already got the basics of this working as a
Windows.Forms application, but running both that and Outlook together
is daft. The Spambayes project already does the hard bit in classifying
the spam, so it makes sense to hang off the back of it.

Has anyone else had similar problems as me with these "phantom" email
addresses being using by spammers and would like to work with me on
this? Would anyone in the Spambayes team like to have a go at this, or
point me in the right direction? Has anyone had a go at hacking around
with the SpamBayes source code and knows what I should do?

Basically any help is extremely welcome!

Regards

Ben

* There must obviously be enough people out there who can't get an
erection or dumb enough to munch pills to get slim rather than endure a
bit of excercise. That being said, they will also trust their credit
card to a bunch of crooks who even if they send you the pills, will
probably sent you rat poison!

** Get the FREE Spambayes Outlook add-in from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/spambayes



From al at none.fr  Sun Oct  9 05:49:36 2005
From: al at none.fr (al)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 11:49:36 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4348e72f$0$11133$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Fredrik Lundh a ?crit :
> if you have a fear of introducing new local variables, you have problems
> that cannot be solved by syntax.

Dear Fredrik,

I have read the original messages on fr.comp.lang.python, and I don't 
understand your answer.

It is not about a fear of introducing new local variables, but for me it 
is an elegant solution to a common problem, to avoid creation of useless 
variables (what in french we call "variables muettes", like indexes in 
loops who are just there because some langages level is too low).

It also avoid the increase of parenthesis depth, and so the readability 
is enhanced.

And it solve a problem that in all object oriented langages, a method 
that process 2 or more different classes of objets belongs just to one 
of those classes.

All this kind of problems appears often to me (and in different 
langages), and contrarily to you, I'm very impressed by the compacity 
and elegance of the solution. I think it would be nice if implemented in 
different langages (because it breaks nothing), and firstly Python.

Best regards,
Al

PS : sorry for my approximative english, but my natural langage is french.


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Oct 17 13:11:13 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:11:13 GMT
Subject: newbie  regex
In-Reply-To: <1129565047.255804.266190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129565047.255804.266190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <RWQ4f.280$A21.55151@newshog.newsread.com>

csselo at gmail.com wrote:
> I want to filter some strings,but i don t know how to use compile
> method.

Why not?

> first character must be [a-zA-z] group and others can only be digits or
> letters.

if re.search('^[a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z0-9]*$', foo):
    print "Valid string."
else:
    print "Invalid string."


From robspychala at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 02:40:17 2005
From: robspychala at gmail.com (robspychala at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 23:40:17 -0700
Subject: calling a dylib in python on OS X
Message-ID: <1130049617.186896.237650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi

Is there something similar to python's windll for calling DLLs on win32
but meant for calling dylib's on OS X?

thanks,

r.s.



From franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at  Wed Oct 19 04:27:55 2005
From: franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:27:55 +0200
Subject: Any 3state Check Tree Ctrl for wxPython available?
References: <mailman.2160.1129543928.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6i0cl113dgc8jscj0o265qd6tb78ira3i2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:14:47 +0200, "Petr Prikryl" <PrikrylP at skil.cz>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am experimenting with wxPython on Windows box. 
>What I need to implement is a check tree control
>with 3 states for each checkbox: unchecked, checked,
>gray checked. The status of the checkbox should reflect
>the status of the children. When ALL children are checked,
>then the status should be checked. When NO children
>are checked, the status should be unchecked. When 
>SOME children are selected, the status should be
>checked with gray background.
>
>I have found something else that could be valuable
>after I start understand that:
>
>http://mitglied.lycos.de/drpython/CheckTreeCtrl.tar 
>

Hello Petr,

It is incidentally from my webpage :)

I uploaded it once, because I didn't find it anywhere
on the web; a person asked for it and I had it on 
my harddisk.

>Anyway, is there something similar with 3 states
>available around?

To your problem: 

What about enhancing/deriving from CheckTreeCtrl
and exending it?

>
>Thanks for your time and experience,
>
>pepr

-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 21:06:05 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 01:06:05 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<KFc6f.5081$q%.3357@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86vezqscfq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<08f6f.6361$7h7.3176@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<86irvqs8cz.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1gg6f.6371$7h7.284@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Mike,

Again, thanks.

By plugin I mean the browsers' extensions: ex:
http://roachfiend.com/archives/2004/12/08/how-to-create-firefox-extensions/#more-4.
IE has the same type or resorts also to activeX components.

Right now I know how to program that guy to open a url....

I guess I need to some thinking before I ask more questions.

Regards,

Philippe






Mike Meyer wrote:

> "Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
>> Mike Meyer wrote:
>>> I don't know much about plugins.  I believe they get started when the
>>> page loads, which gives you a chance to do the authentication when you
>>> want it done.
>> Well not in this case actually: the user triggers the plugin which in
>> turn open the url, so the connection is "owned" by the plugin
> 
> I think we don't mean the same thing when we say "plugin". To me, a
> plugin is a bit of code that gets executed when the page is rendered
> to provide custom content with it's own behavior. Flash is probably
> the most popular example. Like I said, I don't know much about
> plugins, so they may be usable in other ways.
> 
>>> That won't work very well. HTML goes to the client to display. The
>>> server can put data in hidden form elements that code running on the
>>> client side can get to - and change - via the document object model
>>> (DOM). However, the only way to send the changed data back to the
>>> server is to get the client to submit the form. You can automate that,
>>> but the results will be disconcerting to the user: they load a page,
>>> and it reloads multiple times as the plugin exchanges data with the
>>> server.
>> Here again, I'm not dying for any page data to be visible: cannot the cgi
>> script and the plugin do their business before that ?
> 
> Not if you're using plugin as defined above. Pretty much anything that
> happens on the browser end is triggered by things happening in HTML -
> which means it has to be displayed. I don't know of any way to
> download something to the browser to run without rendering *something*
> in the browser window - even if it's only a blank plage.
> 
>>> The problem with this is that the apache<->browser connection isn't
>>> "a" connection, it's a series of HTTP request/repsonse
>>> pairs. Originally, this implied tearing down and setting up a TCP
>>> connection for every request. Modern software will leave the link open
>>> and reuse it - but modern software also tends to have multiple
>>> connetions open, so it can fetch images and other embedded objects in
>>> parallel.
>> I'm lost here, better do some more reading
> 
> HTTP is a stateless protocol. Every HTTP request goes the same: the
> client sends a request saying what object it wants from the
> server. The server reads the request, and sends back the response,
> which is a collection of HTTP headers and a string of bytes. There's
> lots more details invovled, and various things you can do to enhance
> the performance of the system, but functionally they all boil down to
> that.
> 
>>> You can make this work, but doing it like that requires making
>>> multiple HTTP requests via the browser, which will be
>>> disconcerting. I'd recommend taking the browser out of the loop. Have
>>> the plugin talk directly to the server to do the
>>> authentication. That's what the latest web buzzword (AJAX) does:
>>> client-side software makes independent requests of the server (or
>>> *any* server) to get data, and possibly updates the document the
>>> browser is viewing as a result of that.
>> Here I think it's OK as the plugin can "talk" to server prior to the
>> browser showing anything.
> 
> If you say so. But certainly not through the browser.
> 
>>> So here's a scenario: the first cgi script gets info from the smart
>>> card that puts it in a hidden form element and sends the page to the
>>> browser. The plugin - started when the page loads - uses the DOM to
>>> get that data, then makes an *independent* HTTP request to the server,
>>> thus passing whatever it generated from the data in the form field to
>>> a second cgi script. This happens several times, then the plugin
>>> changes the HTML form to put whatever the cgi script generated into
>>> the form, so that when the user finally submits the form, the third
>>> cgi script - the one that handles the submitted form - sees the data
>>> from the second script.
>>> Actually, the exchanges between the plugin and the server don't need
>>> to be HTTP requests. If you've got this working over some other TCP
>>> protocol, there's no reason you can't keep doing it that way.
>> Maybe that's my clue: can a cgi script, once triggered by a (let's say)
>> POST request, use back and forth file transfer with the client ? through
>> the _existing_ connection.
> 
> I honestly don't know. HTTP does a strict onetime turnaround - the
> client sends, then the server sends, then you're done. There are hooks
> in the protocol to allow a connection to be resused, but that's a
> different request/response pair, and generally handled by the server,
> not the cgi script. After all, the next request from the client may be
> for some static file instead of the output of a cgi script.
> 
> Having a cgi script start two-way communications on the connection may
> well work. But it won't be HTTP, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if
> one or more of the components in some web connections - proxies,
> caches, firewalls, etc. - choked on it. You're liable to get
> apparently random failures depending on all kinds of exotic things.
> 
>            <mike



From rpdooling at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 22:08:14 2005
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (BartlebyScrivener)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 19:08:14 -0700
Subject: NEWBIE
In-Reply-To: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130378894.066463.33530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Start here

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

and here

http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide

bs



From christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk  Wed Oct 26 16:59:15 2005
From: christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (c d saunter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:59:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using Python to add thumbnails to Explorer
References: <djocih$msn$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>
	<1130355747_658@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <djoqn3$s0d$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>

Hi Roger,
        Thanks for the info - I was actually interested in custom                         
per file thumbnails rather than icons, but your message sentt me 
pouring through seemingly relevent parts of the registry - however 
what I need isn't there.

Turns out I need to use a .dll shell extension as per
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/
shellcc/platform/shell/programmersguide/shell_int/shell_int_extending/
extensionhandlers/shell_ext.asp

Not so simple, and not (directly) a job for Python.

Thanks,
        Chris
Roger Upole (rupole at hotmail.com) wrote:
: As you guessed, the icon locations are stored in the registry.
: There's a key under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT for each
: registered file type, with a default value holding the class name.
: Under the class name, there's a DefaultIcon key that gives
: the path to the icon.  Using python files an an example, you
: have HKCR\.py with Default=Python.File, and under
: HKCR\Python.File\DefaultIcon, you should have the
: path to py.ico.  You can use the _winreg module to create
: your own entries.

:      hth
:         Roger






From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sat Oct  8 21:32:55 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:32:55 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BE10C8F6Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <9r_1f.9763$2F2.1350622@news20.bellglobal.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96E9BE10C8F6Dcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
>>
>>> But trying to keep your email world into a pure text-based
>>> no-formatting-whatsoever world, that's a fantasy bubble that is bound to
>>> burst, sooner rather than later.
>>
>> Not here.  I've configured my email server to reject HTML emails
>> before I even see them, and more often tham not I'll delete any
>> others that sneak through the gate.
>
> Good for you. If I do that, I lose some customers. Your private war is a
> joke, and one day you'll wake up. What a waste of energy.
>

LOL! Maybe this inane thread can finally die now...

Matt 




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 03:36:04 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:36:04 +0100
Subject: where to find information about errors/exceptions in socket.py
In-Reply-To: <1128663897.741141.241490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128663897.741141.241490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di58gt$5eq$2@sea.gmane.org>

mirandacascade at yahoo.com wrote:
> Version of python: 2.4
> O/S: Win2K
> 
> I will be writing some python scripts to do some client-side
> programming that involves socket.py.  I expect that I will be making
> calls to the following methods/functions:
> 
> connect_ex()
> setsockopt()
> sendall()
> recv()
> close()
> 
> Where can one find information about whether the functions/methods
> above return error codes that provide some indication as to whether the
> function/method succeeded?  Is there an exception class for handling
> exceptions raised in socket.py?  If so, where can one find information
> about it?
> 
> I consulted the docstrings and didn't find much about return codes or
> exception classes.  Also looked at the Lutz "Programming Python"
> text...it devotes several pages to socket programming, but I didn't
> observe much with regard to error/exception handling.
> 
I'd suggest reading the documentation myself:

     http://docs.python.org/lib/module-socket.html

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From scapt at unil.ch  Thu Oct 20 05:41:16 2005
From: scapt at unil.ch (=?iso-8859-1?B?U+li?=)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 02:41:16 -0700
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
References: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ocwa.184dksqmnv1q1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129712258.200656.202440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86fyqxw7ev.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1129801276.626944.96230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi everybody,

Thanks for the time taken to answer my question. Unfortunatly, it seems
that there's a little confusion about what I want to do.

In fact, I don't want to search for a particular path between
computers. What I really want is to detect sequences of connection that
are repeated along the log. Is it clearer, if not, I will put another
exmample ;-)

Thank you !

Ps Python community is very nice, I'm glad I learn this language !



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 27 15:19:45 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:19:45 -0400
Subject: Counting Threads
In-Reply-To: <1130435796.917475.295830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130435796.917475.295830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <N9-dnbE-8qTHtfzeRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

David Poundall wrote:
> Just sorted (its always the way when you post isn't it)
> 
> But the count isn't doint what I expected.  I was after a increment
> after every time the class was used ireespective of instance.  

I have no idea what that last sentence above means...

> Instead
> I get a count based on the instance usage.

> Idea's anyone?

Several, interspersed below:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> class ServerThreads:
>     """
>     Wrapper for thread handling.
>     Thread ID 0 = Controller
>     Thread ID 1 = Plant Object 1
>     Thread ID 2 = Plant Object 2
>     """
> 
>     GlobalThreadCount = 0

Style note: using MixedCaps for variable names doesn't fit conventional 
Python style.  To be conventional you would use "globalThreadCount" 
here, or just "threadCount" since it's no more "global" than any other 
class attribute.

>     def __init__(self):
>         global GlobalThreadCount

And here you definitely don't want "global" since your GlobalThreadCount 
above is *not* a Python "global".  It's a class attribute, and you 
should reference it as such:

>         self.Threads = {}
>         GlobalThreadCount = 0
Change to:
           ServerThreads.GlobalThreadCount = 0

and access it as such in all other places inside the class.

>     def launch(self, SubToLaunch, SubsArgs=(), SubsKwargs={},
> AsDeamon=True):
>         t = Thread(target=SubToLaunch, args = SubsArgs, kwargs =
> SubsKwargs)
>         t.setDaemon(AsDeamon)

You appear to know there is a difference in spelling between these two 
"demons"... but only "daemon" is correct.  "Deamon" is a misspelling.

>         t.start()
>         self.Threads[len(self.Threads)] = t           # Stash the
> thread in an instance local
> 
>         global GlobalThreadCount
>         GlobalThreadCount += 1
>         print  GlobalThreadCount

Caution: if you can't guarantee that launch() will be called from only 
one thread, you have a race condition here since the count could be 
increased "simultaneously" from multiple threads and you won't get 
reliable results.  You would want to wrap it with a threading.Lock() to 
protect it in that case.

>     def globalusagecount(self):
>         """
>         Returns a count figure for how many threads are running in
> total
>         usnig this class.
>         """
>         global GlobalThreadCount
>         return GlobalThreadCount

Style/usage note: although as I mentioned you don't want to use "global" 
  variables anyway, even if you did the above line is unnecessary.  You 
only need to use "global" if you are going to *rebind* the global name 
(i.e. assign a new value to it), not if you are merely reading the value 
and returning it, as above.  What you wrote would work, it's just not 
needed or usual.  (But, again, using a global at all is wrong anyway.)


-Peter


From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Tue Oct  4 14:15:20 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (Mohammed Smadi)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:15:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: closing sockets
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041413310.1371-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

hi;

i am executing program whcih uses a tcp socket.  At the end of the program 
i do s.close() where s is my socket.

when i try to run the program again right away i get the following error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "asterisk_login.py", line 14, in ?
    s.bind(("", hp_port)) # do some error checking
  File "<string>", line 1, in bind
socket.error: (98, 'Address already in use')

how can i get around that

thanks
smadi



From csheppard91 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 15:11:27 2005
From: csheppard91 at gmail.com (csheppard91 at gmail.com)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 12:11:27 -0700
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
Message-ID: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've launched a new forum not too long ago, and I invite you all to go
there: www.wizardsolutionsusa.com (click on the forum link).  We offer
all kinds of help, and for those of you who just like to talk, there's
a chit chat section just for you...Just remember that forum
communication is much easier, safer, and faster.



From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Sat Oct 15 21:02:03 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:02:03 -0400
Subject: Length of read in in python-gpib
Message-ID: <4351a665$0$41142$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

python-gpib provides Gpib.py (see end of post) for Linux.

I am trying to use the method called read. I usually use it without
arguments (the default length being 512). However, I am trying to read in a
string with some 16,000 comma separated floating point numbers.

So, I have to pass a length parameter much much larger than 512. As is
stands, the default read takes in only about 35-40 numbers, so I need about
512/35*16000 ~= 230,000. Not being sure if I could make python read in
something that big, I started small - with 1024. This produces an list of
numbers that has a malformed first number (I get 88309e-9 instead of
something like 6.788309e-9.).

Could this be a bug ?

Second, does the length need to be a power of two for some reason ?

python-gpib is an excellent library, but it suffers from an utter lack of
documentation.

------------------------ Gpib.py -----------------------------
import gpib

RQS = (1<<11)
SRQ = (1<<12)
TIMO = (1<<14)


class Gpib:
        def __init__(self,name='gpib0'):
                self.id = gpib.find(name)


        def write(self,str):
                gpib.write(self.id, str)

        def writebin(self,str,len):
                gpib.writebin(self.id,str,len)


        def read(self,len=512):
                self.res = gpib.read(self.id,len)
                return self.res

        def readbin(self,len=512):
                self.res = gpib.readbin(self.id,len)
                return self.res

        def clear(self):
                gpib.clear(self.id)
                
        def wait(self,mask):
                gpib.wait(self.id,mask)
        
        def rsp(self):
                self.spb = gpib.rsp(self.id)
                return self.spb

        def trigger(self):
                gpib.trg(self.id)

        def ren(self,val):
                gpib.ren(self.id,val)

        def ibsta(self):
                self.res = gpib.ibsta()
                return self.res

        def ibcnt(self):
                self.res = gpib.ibcnt()
                return self.res

        def tmo(self,value):
                return gpib.tmo(self.id,value)


From jack.sankey at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 17:09:07 2005
From: jack.sankey at gmail.com (gurkesaft)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 14:09:07 -0700
Subject: scipy.plt legend?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1910.1129051500.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129046539.630460.326290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1910.1129051500.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129064947.475029.78260@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you, Robert.  I noticed how obsolete it is!  There is no
documentation.

Matplotlib freezes my system if I close a plot and make a new one :(.
Bah.  Windows :)

Anyway, I figured out how to make gnuplot.py do my bidding.

-Jack



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 04:42:52 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:42:52 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<Xns96F0C6A35F486castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<11l3fig34u2ln27@corp.supernews.com> <IoJqsn.GKA@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <u9d9l15qkk3lch88e469cc4q9f9s11v13b@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:12:23 GMT, Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote
or quoted :

>> - Any ability to automatically generate hits on sender-specified
>>   servers when the email is read.
>
>I hadn't though of that one.  As well as use in DDOS attacks, that
>can help let spammers know if they have reached a human :-|

If you think about it, much as you hate spammers you WANT them to have
that information. If you never read spam, and they know that, they
eventually might stop sending it to you and focus on the nitwits who
read it.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:34:14 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:34:14 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<036lk15rkocgpjjlbdl11vsr82tkrc4bmn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hr3rk1dpd6g300n88ga9j4ok6b7jjccdqc@4ax.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:35:58 -0700, Alan Balmer <albalmer at att.net>
wrote or quoted :

>And they don't know about attachments?

 Attachments are geeky kludge.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 11:06:03 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:06:03 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>

> This is naive. Testing doesn't guarantee anything. If this is what you
> think about testing, then testing gives you a false impression of
> security. Maybe we should drop testing.

Typechecking is done by a reduced lamda calculus (System F, which is 
ML-Style), whereas testing has the full power of a turing complete 
language. So _if_ one has to be dropped, it would certainly be 
typechecking.

Additionally, testing gives you the added benefit of actually using your 
decelared APIs - which serves documentation  purposes as well as 
securing your design decisions, as you might discover bad design while 
actually writing testcases.

Besides that, the false warm feeling of security a successful 
compilation run has given many developers made them check untested and 
actually broken code into the VCS. I've seen that _very_ often! And the 
_only_ thinng that prevents us from doing so is to enforce tests. But 
these are more naturally done in python (or similar languages) as every 
programmer knows "unless the program run sucsessfully, I can't say 
anything about it" than in a statically typed language where the 
programmer argues "hey, it compiled, it should work!"


Regards,

Diez


From bear at sonic.net  Thu Oct  6 00:51:48 2005
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 04:51:48 GMT
Subject: check html file size
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E321f.1390$Aw.24882@typhoon.sonic.net>

Richard Gration wrote:

> ... fucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fucking ... Fucking ... fucking 
 > ... fucking

My friend, you can learn to use a far richer vocabulary of
obscenities.  If your creative flow is blocked by the fear
that you can't spell more dirty words correctly, you can
dispel this fear with a few evenings of study and preparation.

Amaze your friends!  Amuse your enemies!  Enrich your
vocabulary!  You can learn the joys of cussing seven
times in the same sentence without resorting to repetition!
For extra points, and with suitable study, you can even
learn to write entire paragraphs of _original_ obscenity!

Just imagine how much clearer your point would have been if
you'd called him a jizz-licking dogcock grabber!  Why insult
his code with a vague word like "moronicity" when you could
use "steaming pile of entrails" or better yet, "bucket of
fermented ballsweat?" wouldn't that have made your technical
point much clearer?

Now go, and don't attempt obscenity in public again until
you learn how.

				Bear




From codecraig at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 09:10:47 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:10:47 -0700
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1991.1129194578.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129152455.3374.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.1991.1129194578.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129209047.946591.44780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik,
  ...I tried using your code...

static long *get_long_array(PyObject *data, int *data_size) {
    int i, size;
    long* out;
    PyObject* seq;

    seq = PySequence_Fast(data, "expected a sequence");
    if (!seq)
        return NULL;

    size = PySequence_Size(seq);
    if (size < 0)
        return NULL;

    if (data_size)
        *data_size = size;

    out = (long*) PyMem_Malloc(size * sizeof(long));
    if (!out) {
        Py_DECREF(seq);
        PyErr_NoMemory();
        return NULL;
    }

    for (i = 0; i < size; i++)
        out[i] = PyInt_AsLong(PySequence_Fast_GET_ITEM(seq, i));

    Py_DECREF(seq);

    if (PyErr_Occurred()) {
        PyMem_Free(out);
        out = NULL;
    }

    return out;

}


and I get this error..

C:\project\myapp.c(549) : error C2040: 'get_long_array' : 'long
*(struct _object *,int *)' differs in levels of indirection from 'int
()'

any idea?

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Jeremy Moles wrote:
>
> > Probably what you want to do though is just keep the tuple as is and
> > iterate over it using the PySequence_* protocol:
> >
> > http://docs.python.org/api/sequence.html
>
> I did post a complete and tested example a few days ago, which contained
> code that showed how to do this.  a complete waste of time, of course.
> 
> </F>



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 08:09:21 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 05:09:21 -0700
Subject: Call C functions from Python
In-Reply-To: <11k5rpekldqd29e@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5mpg999eos1f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128457689.105158.24700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5rpekldqd29e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1128514161.835258.138730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I used, myApp = CDLL("C:...") ...as I saw it in one of the ctypes
samples.

Anyhow, I tried...

myApp = cdll.LoadLibrary("C:\\myapp.dll")
myApp.AddNumbers(1, 4)

..I get an error...

AttributeError: function 'AddNumbers' not found

...myapp certainly has AddNumbers.

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-04, Java and Swing <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ok i got ctypes...now i try
> >
> >>> from ctypes import *
> >>> myApp = CDLL("C:\\myapp.dll")
>
> I've never seen that sort of usage before.  I don't know what
> CDLL does, and I can't find it in the docs anywhere.
>
> Based on my reading of the tutorial, I would have tried eitehr
>
>   myApp = cdll.myapp
> or
>   myApp = cdll.LoadLibrary("C:/myapp.dll")
>
> > ..now how can I call functions on in myapp.dll? From the
> > tutorial I am not sure..
>
> Assuming CDLL did something equivalent to cdll.LoadLibrary(),
> I'd try:
>
>    myApp.FuncName()
>
> I've always done it the way it's done in the tutorial:
>
>   mylib = windll.Lib_Name
>   mylib.myFuncName()
>
> > i try, dir(cdll.myApp) and dir(myApp)..but don't see my
> > functions listed.
>
> I don't think dir() works on dll's like that.  I certainly
> don't see it mentioned in the tutorial.  What happened when you
> tried calling the function the way the tutorial does?
>
>   myapp = cdll.myapp
>   myapp.MyFunc()
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! Is my fallout
>                                   at               shelter termite proof?
>                                visi.com



From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 01:05:38 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 22:05:38 -0700
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
In-Reply-To: <iUD6f.209139$p_1.33935@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.48.00.137827@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Gmy6f.208600$p_1.49655@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.00.36.28.678699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<iUD6f.209139$p_1.33935@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130043938.837369.255270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

interesting. seems that "if ' ' in source:" is a highly optimized code
as it is even faster than "if str.find(' ') != -1:' when I assume they
end up in the same C loops ?

Ron Adam wrote:
> Guess again...  Is this the results below what you were expecting?
>
> Notice the join adds a space to the end if the source string is a single
> word.  But I allowed for that by adding one in the same case for the
> index method.
>
> The big win I was talking about was when no spaces are in the string.
> The index can then just return the replacement.
>
> These are relative percentages of time to each other.  Smaller is better.
>
> Type 1 = no spaces
> Type 2 = space at 10% of length
> Type 3 = space at 90% of length
>
> Type: Length
>
> Type 1: 10        split/join: 317.38%  index: 31.51%
> Type 2: 10        split/join: 212.02%  index: 47.17%
> Type 3: 10        split/join: 186.33%  index: 53.67%
> Type 1: 100       split/join: 581.75%  index: 17.19%
> Type 2: 100       split/join: 306.25%  index: 32.65%
> Type 3: 100       split/join: 238.81%  index: 41.87%
> Type 1: 1000      split/join: 1909.40%  index: 5.24%
> Type 2: 1000      split/join: 892.02%  index: 11.21%
> Type 3: 1000      split/join: 515.44%  index: 19.40%
> Type 1: 10000     split/join: 3390.22%  index: 2.95%
> Type 2: 10000     split/join: 2263.21%  index: 4.42%
> Type 3: 10000     split/join: 650.30%  index: 15.38%
> Type 1: 100000    split/join: 3342.08%  index: 2.99%
> Type 2: 100000    split/join: 1175.51%  index: 8.51%
> Type 3: 100000    split/join: 677.77%  index: 14.75%
> Type 1: 1000000   split/join: 3159.27%  index: 3.17%
> Type 2: 1000000   split/join: 867.39%  index: 11.53%
> Type 3: 1000000   split/join: 679.47%  index: 14.72%
>
>
>
>
> import time
> def test(func, source):
>      t = time.clock()
>      n = 6000000/len(source)
>      s = ''
>      for i in xrange(n):
>          s = func(source, "replace")
>      tt = time.clock()-t
>      return s, tt
>
> def replace_word1(source, newword):
>      """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
>      return newword + " " + " ".join(source.split(None, 1)[1:])
>
> def replace_word2(source, newword):
>      """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
>      if ' ' in source:
>          return newword + source[source.index(' '):]
>      return newword + ' '   # space needed to match join results
>
>
> def makestrings(n):
>      s1 = 'abcdefghij' * (n//10)
>      i, j = n//10, n-n//10
>      s2 = s1[:i] + ' ' + s1[i:] + 'd.'    # space near front
>      s3 = s1[:j] + ' ' + s1[j:] + 'd.'    # space near end
>      return [s1,s2,s3]
>
> for n in [10,100,1000,10000,100000,1000000]:
>      for sn,s in enumerate(makestrings(n)):
>          r1, t1 = test(replace_word1, s)
>          r2, t2 = test(replace_word2, s)
>          assert r1 == r2
>          print "Type %i: %-8i  split/join: %.2f%%  index: %.2f%%" \
>                 % (sn+1, n, t1/t2*100.0, t2/t1*100.0)



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 07:23:44 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:23:44 +0100
Subject: strange import error with Python-2.4.1
In-Reply-To: <dig5ct$hb5$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <434B8EDF.3060905@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>	<434B9602.9070001@holdenweb.com>
	<dig5ct$hb5$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dig7c2$md4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can I ask if you are specifying a source encoding in your file with a
>>pragma (?) like
>>
>># -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
>>
>>I've noticed what appear to be spurious syntax errors from time to time
>>on such files, and have been attempting to debug the problem for some
>>time without any apparent success.
> 
> 
> http://www.python.org/sf/1175396
> 
Thanks!

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From auch-ich-m at g-kein-spam.com  Wed Oct 26 04:26:45 2005
From: auch-ich-m at g-kein-spam.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?= Malo)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:26:45 +0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130314553.112864.233480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djneqo$pe9$1@news.web.de>

* "Iain King" <iainking at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ah, doh!  Of course.  Oh well then...  still, doesn't python's RE
> engine support named groups?  That would be cumbersome, but would allow
> you to go above 100...

The named groups are built on top of numbered captures. They are mapped by the
parser and the match instance's group method. The regex matcher itself never
sees these names.

nd


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct 20 10:04:20 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:04:20 -0500
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
In-Reply-To: <4356740c$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <43567027$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<-_2dndLn4eEm78veRVn-qg@comcast.com>
	<4356740c$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <Jc2dnbkbuotDPsreRVn-tA@comcast.com>

No you can't convert using str().  Binary data is
stored in a Python string object, but it isn't really
a string.  It is rather just a bunch of bits packed
into a string variable.  struct.unpack() will unpack
those bits into any number of different types of
variables and is what you need.

Example:

import struct
s='\x64'
values=struct.unpack('b',s)
print "values=",values

value=(100,)

Note: struct.unpack returns a tuple of values.  Just get
values[0] to get the first one.

Larry

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> Larry Bates wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can you give us an example.  I don't know what two bit
>>hex means (takes at least 4 bits to make a hex digit).
> 
> 
> Like 64(base 16)=100.
> I am referring to 64 in the above.
> 
> 
>>Now I'm going to try to guess:
>>
>>If the data is binary then all you need to do is to
>>use the struct.unpack module to convert to integer.
> 
> 
> Doesn't unpack presume that the input is a string ? If so, is it safe to
> convert binary data to string using str() ?


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 01:21:55 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:21:55 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<8b09l1tgavuiu3hmatva34624lvsjn6mtl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj20pk$tod$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:8b09l1tgavuiu3hmatva34624lvsjn6mtl at 4ax.com...

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:44:55 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's
>>obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with
>>Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or 
>>fraud.

> I think that what they did borders on force/fraud.

    I don't think any of it bordered on force or fraud. However, their 
obligation to their shareholders requires them to do anythign that borders 
on force/fraud so long as it isn't force/fraud. However, the use of things 
too close to force/fraud often backfires. Microsoft has an obligation to be 
strategic and look nice where those things beneficially impact the bottom 
line.

    It's Bill Gates' job to make his company worth as much as possible.

    DS




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 09:04:20 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:04:20 +0200
Subject: Call C functions from Python
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><11k5mpg999eos1f@corp.supernews.com><1128457689.105158.24700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><11k5rpekldqd29e@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128514161.835258.138730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0j0k$265$1@sea.gmane.org>

Java and Swing wrote:

>I used, myApp = CDLL("C:...") ...as I saw it in one of the ctypes
> samples.
>
> Anyhow, I tried...
>
> myApp = cdll.LoadLibrary("C:\\myapp.dll")
> myApp.AddNumbers(1, 4)
>
> ..I get an error...
>
> AttributeError: function 'AddNumbers' not found
>
> ...myapp certainly has AddNumbers.

properly exported?  what does

    dumpbin /exports myapp.pyd

say?

</F> 





From lassevk at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 05:55:20 2005
From: lassevk at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 02:55:20 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <43424bee$0$38666$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<43424bee$0$38666$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1128419720.504389.323330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

While Microsoft and other big software vendors might have a roadmap
that ties you very tightly in with their budget, and also changes that
roadmap from time to time which breaks your current software, a lot of
open source projects have no roadmap at all.

This means that a .x.y.2 upgrade might very well kill your software in
the same way a 6-7 upgrade with VB might. The biggest reason for this,
as far as I can tell, is that open source projects are very much built
to integrate with other projects, simply because the source is
available and it's thus far easier to integrate them, but that also
means that unless you upgrade two integrated projects at the same time,
you risk an upgrade in one breaking the other.

As an example, Komodo from ActiveState has serious problems (on my 4
computers) debugging functions with Python 2.4.2. Right now I don't
know if Python 2.4.2 fixed a bug Komodo depended on or if 2.4.2
introduced a bug breaking Komodo, or if my computer is some freaky
thing that just refuses to behave. I'm reinstalling my office computer
these days so I'll see what happens then, but until that's done, I've
had to go back to 2.4.1 in order to debug properly.

With a 6.0 to 7.0 upgrade for a project, I expect problems. Even
Microsoft came out and said this new release will definitely break your
software projects. The whole point of an upgrade is that something that
did X before, does Y now, something different. Preferrably Y = X+1, but
sometimes it's radically different.

I think a main point in a lot of projects is that unless you have to
upgrade, don't. That way you can avoid a lot of problems by default.

Now, as for OP, the only way to easily get full support for all the new
Microsoft technology when it comes out will probably be to upgrade to
the latest and the greatest of the Microsoft tools. I bet the Python
community will react quicker than you can turn your head, but the tools
will still not be the same as Microsoft. Does it mean they won't be as
good ? No, it means they will be different. It means that you probably
can't follow Microsoft help when dealing with Python modules.

And that, is exactly as it should be.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 03:19:55 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:19:55 +0100
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <F6A69CAD-81D4-4D94-88F9-A3011CBCFFA8@pengale.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<F6A69CAD-81D4-4D94-88F9-A3011CBCFFA8@pengale.com>
Message-ID: <dj7gen$6nq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jason Stitt wrote:
> On Oct 19, 2005, at 9:18 PM, grunar at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>My solution is sqlstring. A single-purpose library: to create SQL
>>statement objects. These objects (such as sqlstring.Select), represent
>>complex SQL Statements, but as Python objects.
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> First of all, I like this idea. I've been thinking about doing  
> something similar but am stuck with SQLObject for the moment. The  
> ability to construct complex expressions in pieces and then mix and  
> match them would be killer.
> 
> I think some operator overloading, especially the obvious cases like  
> ==, is cleaner than using only functions because it lets you order  
> things normally. But some of the operator choices are non-intuitive.  
> Personally, I would make something like 'alias' a function or class,  
> rather than overloading XOR. Not sure about ** for where.
> 
> Using // for 'in' looks really weird, too. It's too bad you can't  
> overload Python's 'in' operator. (Can you? It seems to be hard-coded  
> to iterate through an iterable and look for the value, rather than  
> calling a private method like some other builtins do.)
> 
 >>> class inplus(object):
...   def __contains__(self, thing):
...     print "Do I have a", thing, "?"
...     return True
...
 >>> x = inplus()
 >>> "Steev" in x
Do I have a Steev ?
True
 >>>
[...]

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 26 19:44:50 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:44:50 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <1h4zlsn.15t73ko1d685iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1h4zlsn.15t73ko1d685iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SxU7f.169689$xl6.46707@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Alex Martelli wrote:

> Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>     class namespace(dict):
>>         def __getattr__(self, name):
>>             return self.__getitem__(name)
> 
>    ...
> 
>>Any thoughts?  Any better way to do this?
> 
> 
> If any of the keys (which become attributes through this trick) is named
> 'update', 'keys', 'get' (and so on), you're toast; it really looks like
> a nasty, hard-to-find bug just waiting to happen.  If you're really
> adamant on going this perilous way, you might try overriding
> __getattribute__ rather than __getattr__ (the latter is called only when
> an attribute is not found "in the normal way").

Thanks Alex, I was wondering what the difference between __getattr__ and 
  __getattribute__ was.


> If you think about it, you're asking for incompatible things: by saying
> that a namespace X IS-A dict, you imply that X.update (&c) is a bound
> method of X; at the same time, you also want X.update to mean just the
> same thing as X['update'].  Something's gotta give...!-)
> 
> Alex

Part of the motivation of this is to try and keep names as names and 
data as data in my programs.  I would use dictionaries for data storage, 
and namespace_dicts for strictly name/value passing.  So some 
limitations with names are expected just as they would exist anywhere 
else with object names.  Ie.. can't use keywords, and using names of 
methods can cause objects to break, etc...

This seems to be the closest to a generic namespace object so far.

class namespace(dict):
     __getattribute__ = dict.__getitem__
     __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
     __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__

Not having any public and/or visible methods of it's own is a good thing 
here.  So you would need to use dict.update(A_namespace, A_dict) in this 
case.  I don't think thats a problem.  Maybe a namespace object, (as I 
am thinking of it), should not have it's own interface, but inherit one 
from the object it's inserted into?

Anyway... this is experimental, and not production code of any sort. ;-)

Cheers,
    Ron



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 23 14:58:07 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:58:07 -0400
Subject: wxpython - passing arg to wx.app OnInit
In-Reply-To: <11lnkbipmbgl0d2@corp.supernews.com>
References: <11lm687nih0l7ac@corp.supernews.com>
	<7pGdnfmqQoJJG8beRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
	<11lnkbipmbgl0d2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3MydnebVNYW6QMbeRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>

Stuart McGraw wrote:
> I simplied the my code for posting.  In my real program, the
> thing being passed is not a command line argument per se,
> but the result of signifigant processing dependent on the 
> command line argument.  I do not want to repeat that 
> processing in the wx.App method.
> Would you elaborate on the other ways?

In that case, override __init__ something like this:

class Application(wx.App):
    def __init__(self, *pargs, clargs=None, **kwargs):
        self.clargs = clargs or []   # store reference to args

        # call parent class initializer
        wx.App.__init__(self, *pargs, **kwargs)

   def OnInit(self):
       # use self.clargs here


app = Application(redirect=0, clargs=[dbfn])

or whatever... I just guessed at what you meant to do with dbfn though,
but I think the basic idea is clear enough.

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 13 14:58:25 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:58:25 +0100
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <1129226551.255303.46270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>	<1129192705.632826.145210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<1129225263.705977.181050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2020.1129225709.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129226551.255303.46270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dimaog$mk9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brett Hoerner wrote:
> Trent Mick wrote:
> 
>>Yes. The MS Platform SDK is free and includes a compiler that can target
>>x86, ia64 and x64 (the latter is what MS -- and Sun -- are calling
>>AMD64).
> 
> 
> Thanks, looking at their site I can't find a Platform SDK for XP... am
> I looking for the Windows 2003 Server SDK...?  Seems counter-intuitive
> if so, but it does mention you can build 32 and 64-bit apps with it, I
> just assumed they would be uh, for Windows Server.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Brett
> 
I used the instructions at

   http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/

to install the MS Toolkit, but I haven't tried compiling 64-bit code 
myself, not having any 64-bit hardware.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From allen.cross at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 22:53:08 2005
From: allen.cross at gmail.com (whoopsi)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 19:53:08 -0700
Subject: help w/ simple GPIB prog.
Message-ID: <1128394388.461568.110390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   Could someone give me some simple commands for communicating with
GPIB devices. All I want is to aquire values from a multimeter/fiber
optic attenuator/and a power meter. Nothing too complex. I was able to
do so using Matlab (however, I was using the serail port) and
communicating via SCPI language, but now the computer I'm using doesn't
have Matlab, so I'm trying to learn with Python. I've downloaded and
installed: ActivePython_2.4, pyserial-2.2, and
gpib-devices-0.0.4.win32.exe. I have read some beginner's guides to
python, but they don't discuss GPIB programming much.
   I thought I would simply be able to open a port, and send SCPI
commands to configure and aquire values. But when I tried to run GPIB
.py files from gpib-device-0.0.4 I got an error: "symbol 'ibsta' not
found". Doing some searching I found that ibsta was refering to a
library for GPIB (I'm assuming some .dll from a driver) and wrapping
them???. But these instruments as far as I know don't need drivers.

The instruments I'm using are:
   -PC w/ WIN2k
   -Keithley 2000 multimeter
   -HP 8156A optical attenuator
   -ILXLightwave Fiber Optic Power Meter

Essentially what I would like to do is simply run the attenuator
through different dB values and measure the voltage using the
multimeter. And possibly later integrating the power meter.
    If you could help me I would appreciate it, and please forgive the
above longwindedness. thanks.
    -Allen



From http  Fri Oct 14 00:56:39 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 21:56:39 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3r83a5Fi1rt6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xfyr5qdxh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2049.1129264278.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xll0wofw8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
>  >>And this presumes an architecture which byte-addresses and only
>  >> uses "aligned" addresses.
> 
> He was talking about the arachiteecture, for Pete's sake, not a compiler.

Yeah, I noticed that, I could have been pedantic about it but chose to
just describe how these language implementations work in the real
world with zero exceptions that I know of.  I guess I should have
spelled it out.


From http  Tue Oct 11 03:26:15 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:26:15 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1881.1129015416.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xslv87bvs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy <gandalf at designaproduct.biz> writes:
> This is a bit offtopic here. I read the RFC and I do not see why SRP
> is not vulnerable to dictionary attacks.
> If I have a working client software then I can use it to reveal
> passwords. Isn't it a dictionary attack?

Dictionary attack in this context means an eavesdropper records a
session, then compares all the hashed passwords against a word list
offline.  If the attacker is allowed to make unlimited online queries,
then he can guess at SRP passwords too.  But the host should notice
that and prevent it.


From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Wed Oct 26 13:45:30 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:45:30 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <_gP7f.7988$Ih5.221@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote:
 
>> Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  
 
> You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
> the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?
 
> In 1988, there were something like ten or a dozen word processors
> available to choose from, and they were competing on price and features

Yes... I think I used a couple around then.

> like crazy. That was then, now there is just MS Office. The most
> innovative things Microsoft has added to Office in the last decade? Clippy

Er... Open Office, Apple Works.

Axel



From jamie at jborder.com  Thu Oct 13 05:50:19 2005
From: jamie at jborder.com (Jamie Border)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:50:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pythot doc problem: lambda keyword...
References: <1128925487.783702.198410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128929786.734783.296990@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dilakr$qkf$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

"Pisin Bootvong" <joesb.coe9 at gmail.com> wrote:
Xah Lee ?????:
[...]
> Fuck the Python liers and ignorant fuckheads. Motherfucking don't know
> shit and yet lying thru their teeth with fanfare.
[...]
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/

[elided]

PB> BTW, you post to the wrong group.

No, I think c.l.l is exactly the place to discuss how to play many trumpets 
through one set of teeth.

In fact, I have a box of trumpets lying around somewhere...

Open wide, Xah!

Jamie 




From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Mon Oct  3 12:55:24 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 20:55:24 +0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com> <R1Y%e.618$2F2.11645
	3@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com> <434084
	3b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99 f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <20051003205524.55ef7a86.jk@ospaz.ru>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:46:49 +1000
Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> errors and not rely on the compiler. No compiler will catch this error:
> 
> x = 12.0 # feet
> # three pages of code
> y = 15.0 # metres
> # three more pages of code
> distance = x + y
> if distance < 27:
>     fire_retro_rockets()
> 
> And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
> early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
> employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.

So, I guess, you have a spare Mars lander especially for unit-testing? :)

-- 
jk


From dwahler at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:18:39 2005
From: dwahler at gmail.com (David  Wahler)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:18:39 -0700
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt being lost?
References: <dip4b1$t8t$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <1129324719.428046.225970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Operation Latte Thunder wrote:
> I have a simple test proggie that isn't behaving like I expect ( found
> below ).  The script will infinitely run ( as expected ), but seems to
> completely ignore control-C's.  Shouldn't the interpreter pass along
> KeyboardInterrupts and break out of the while loop, or am I missing
> something?
>
> Using python 2.4.2 on linux ( if it matters )
>
> -- Script Below --
>
> import threading, traceback, time
>
> class TestThread ( threading.Thread ):
>         def __init__ ( self ):
>                 threading.Thread.__init__ ( self )
>         def run ( self ):
>                 print "Starting..."
>                 while True:
>                         time.sleep ( 1 )
>                 return
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>         test = TestThread ( )
>         test.start()
>         print "Started..."
>         test.join()
>
>
> --
> chris

Chris,

Thread.join() is implemented using a lock, and the acquisition of a
lock is uninterruptible. (See
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-thread.html) Therefore, your main
thread will block until the other thread terminates or the process is
forcibly killed. Even if it could be interrupted, I don't think there's
any way to raise that exception in the other thread. (Python's
threading support leaves something to be desired when compared to, say,
Java.)

-- David



From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sun Oct  2 11:26:03 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 11:26:03 -0400
Subject: [OT] A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<9GS%e.7067$vw6.1891@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d_S%e.85$R4.26998@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Lucas Raab" <dotpyFE at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:9GS%e.7067$vw6.1891 at newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Xah Lee wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>(they tried, with their limited implementation of lambda and
>> shun it like a plaque)
>
> Can't say I've heard that expression before...
>

Burns: I'm afraid it's not that simple.  As punishment for your desertion, 
it's company policy to give you the plague.
Smithers: Uh, sir, that's the plaque.

Matt 




From jaywgraves at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 18:01:06 2005
From: jaywgraves at gmail.com (jay graves)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 15:01:06 -0700
Subject: Mantain IDE colors and paste them in an HTML page
References: <eJC0f.12418$133.8399@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <1128463266.220423.202960@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

billie wrote:
> I tried the export function of scite but it does not generate a proper HTML
> code that permit me to copy and paste it into another HTML page.

Works OK for me.  What exactly is it doing wrong on your side?

> Does anyone got any suggestion?

I've used Webcpp before.  http://webcpp.sourceforge.net/

...
jay



From quiteblack at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 21:36:45 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (black)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 18:36:45 -0700
Subject: how to execute .exe file ?
In-Reply-To: <434BD78C.9030900@websafe.com>
References: <1129040197.719729.22460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434BD78C.9030900@websafe.com>
Message-ID: <1129081005.496278.304910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

tks !!!



From rupole at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 16 11:16:35 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:16:35 -0400
Subject: odbc errors
References: <1129472726.898400.227750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129476045_3873@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

eight02645999 at yahoo.com wrote:
> hi
>
> i have a piece of code:
> ...
>
> def connectdb(sql):
>    import dbi
>    import odbc
>    import sys
>    try:
>        s = odbc.odbc('DSN=CONN;UID=user;PWD=pass')
>        cur = s.cursor()
>       # cur.execute("set nocount on")
>        cur.execute(sql)
>        while 1:
>            rec = cur.fetchone()
>            if not rec: break
>    return rec
>    except:
>        print 'error while processing ', sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value
>    s.close()
>    cur.close()
>    s = None
>    cur = None
>
> ...
> sql = r'update table set col = 'A' where user = "user1"'
> connectdb(sql)
>
>
> when i execute it from CGI, i encounter the following :
> error while processing dbi.internal-error [MERANT][ODBC Sybase ASE
> driver]Invalid cursor state. in FETCH None
>
> but when i did check the table, the value of col is updated to 'A',
> how can i suppress the above error message? or is there some other
> things
> that are wrong with the code.
> thanks
>

The update is performed as soon as you execute the cursor.
No recordset is returned from the update, so you can remove
the fetch altogether.

         hth
           Roger



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct  3 13:08:11 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 03:08:11 +1000
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1386.1128357078.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.03.17.08.10.604349@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:30:35 +0400, en.karpachov wrote:

> Some people just don't get the simple fact that declarations are
> essentially kind of unit test you get for free (almost), and the compiler
> is a testing framework for them.

No. Some people just don't get it that declarations aren't almost
free, because they cost a lot in human labour, and that they give you
practically nothing that your unit testing wouldn't give you anyway.


-- 
Steven.



From timothy at open-networks.net  Tue Oct 11 19:33:39 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:33:39 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <did1ma$4q2$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net><200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>
	<did1ma$4q2$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <434C4BD3.3060508@open-networks.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>Timothy Smith wrote:
>  
>
>>i have reproduced the error in this code block
>>
>>#save values in edit
>>self.FinaliseTill.SaveEditControlValue()
>>if
>>Decimal(self.parent.TillDetails[self.TillSelection.GetStringSelection()]['ChangeTinBalance']))
>>== Decimal('0'):
>>#box must be checked before continuing
>>if self.PlacedInSafe.GetValue() != 1:
>>self.parent.Popup("You must place the till draw back in the
>>safe","Till draw")
>>else:
>>#finalise the till draw
>>if Decimal(self.TillFloat.GetLabel().split('$')[1]) != Decimal('0'):
>>Prompt = wx.MessageDialog(self,"""The correct amount has not been
>>returned from the till draw float to the main float!
>>If you proceed please contact your manager""","Change tin doesn't
>>balance!",wx.YES_NO)
>>if Prompt.ShowModal() == wx.ID_YES:
>>self.Submit()
>>else:
>>self.parent.Popup('You have an outstanding change tin balance on this
>>till','Change tin')
>>
>>i have NO idea what in there could be making it have such a strange
>>error. it just says "error" when you try run it. there nothing terribly
>>strange being done.
>>    
>>
>
>the snippet you posted gives
>
>$ python script.py
>  File "script.py", line 2
>    self.FinaliseTill.SaveEditControlValue()
>    ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>on my python 2.3 install.
>
>are you sure you don't have some weird sitecustomize file on your
>machine?  (more likely, it's a wxPython issue.  can you reproduce
>this without using wxPython ?)
>
></F>
>
>
>
>  
>
i am still coming across this error it's driving me nuts. usually i can 
find what's wrong, but it is becoming an increasingly annoying problem. 
i also get the same problem on a windows machine with the same 
installed. this time it's nothing to do with the decimal module. help!


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 16 18:11:40 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:11:40 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <86y84t159f.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> writes:
> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
>> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
>> mainframe terminals.
> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was,

Just for the record, microsoft didn't "produce" - with the meaning
that they created it - dos 1.0; they "produced" - with the meaning
that they presented it - after buying it from Seattle Computer
Products, where it was known as QDOS, the Quick and Dirty Operating
System. MS bought it after promising IBM that MS had an 8088 OS to
sell IBM, which was a blatant lie.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jeremy+complangpython at jeremysanders.net  Fri Oct 28 10:37:46 2005
From: jeremy+complangpython at jeremysanders.net (Jeremy Sanders)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:37:46 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2672.1130498035.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <djtd3r$47j$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com wrote:
>> I want to scan a file byte for byte [...]
>> while True:
>>     ch = inputFile.read(1)
>> [...] But it is very slow. What is the fastest way to do this? Using some
>> native call? Using a buffer? Using whatever?
> 
> Read in blocks, not byte for byte. I had good experiences with block
> sizes like 4096 or 8192.

It's difficult to handle overlaps. The four byte sequence may occur at the
end of one block and beginning of the next. You'd need to check for these
special cases.

Jeremy

-- 
Jeremy Sanders
http://www.jeremysanders.net/


From samantha7395 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 20 13:08:12 2005
From: samantha7395 at hotmail.com (Samantha)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:08:12 -0700
Subject: Cursor Location
Message-ID: <nIednWsyWKhuU8reRVn-hg@adelphia.com>

Is there any code that would allow a person to click a location on the 
screen and have that location saved for a future use? For example to imbed a 
watermark on an image or text, etc.

S 




From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct  5 02:00:39 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:00:39 +0200
Subject: Build spoofed IP packets
References: <L2D0f.12452$133.5252@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <slrndk6qvp.8dq.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

billie enlightened us with:
> For low level packet building I already used Impacket module but if
> I specify a spoofed src address during IP packet creation, module
> returns an error.  Suggestions?

Yes, give us the error. And know that you can't build raw IP packets
unless you're root.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From robinsiebler at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 15:05:24 2005
From: robinsiebler at gmail.com (robinsiebler at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:05:24 -0700
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129748724.890082.70380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Try 4NT (http://www.jpsoft.com).  It is like cmd on steroids.  I've
been using it for years and it is the *only* thing that makes powerful
batch files possible on Windows.  It has a slew of features, including
batch file debugging.



From ntamas at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 18:39:54 2005
From: ntamas at gmail.com (Tamas Nepusz)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 15:39:54 -0700
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt vs extension written in C
In-Reply-To: <3rqj7vFhstbuU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1129814875.226834.10260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3rqj7vFhstbuU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129847994.610270.212810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

No, that's actually a bit more complicated. The library I'm working on
is designed for performing calculations on large-scale graphs (~10000
nodes and edges). I want to create a Python interface for that library,
so what I want to accomplish is that I could just type "from igraph
import *" in a Python command line and then access all of the
functionalities of the igraph library. Now it works, except the fact
that if, for example, I start computing the diameter of a random graph
of ~100000 nodes and ~200000 edges, I can't cancel it, because the
KeyboardInterrupt is not propagated to the Python toplevel (or it isn't
even generated until the igraph library routine returns). I would like
to allow the user to cancel the computation with the usual Ctrl-C and
return to the Python interactive interface.
This whole feature is not vital, but it would mean a big step towards
user-friendliness.
I have access to the source code of igraph as well (since one of my
colleagues is developing it), so another possible solution would be to
inject some calls into the igraph source code which temporarily cancels
the computation and checks whether there's something waiting in the
Python interpreter, but I haven't found any function in the API which
allows me to do this.

Tamas



From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Thu Oct 27 11:31:25 2005
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:31:25 GMT
Subject: time conversion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2643.1130425915.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <OB58f.33235$b55.1588325@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.2643.1130425915.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hp68f.33261$FL1.1522811@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> "flupke" wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there an easy to convert following hour notation hh:mm
>>to decimals?
>>For instance 2 hours and 30 minutes as 2:30 to 2,50
>>I don't really know where to search for this kind of conversion.
> 
> 
> you mean like
> 
>     >>> timestamp = "2:30"
>     >>> hour, minute = timestamp.split(":")
>     >>> print int(hour) + int(minute) / 60.0
>     2.5
> 
> ?
> 
> </F>
> 
> 
> 
yep, your sollution is shorter so i'll use that :)

Thanks
Benedict


From benzwt at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Oct  3 12:10:54 2005
From: benzwt at yahoo.com.tw (benzwt at yahoo.com.tw)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 09:10:54 -0700
Subject: morphological image processing in Python
In-Reply-To: <slrndk2fm5.cck.alf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <slrndk2fm5.cck.alf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1128355854.416660.215260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Alexandre Fayolle ???


http://www.mmorph.com/resources.html

check this page.
Pymorph is a free.



> Hello,
>
> I'm about to start a project which will involve some greyscale image
> processing using morphological operators (erosion, dilation, distance
> transforms...), and I was wondering if these operators were available in
> Python through some open source libraries.
>
> A quick google search returned pymorphpro[1], which is unfortunately not
> free software, and there also seem to be something available in ITK [2].
> Unless I'm mistaken, the PIL does not provide these operations, nore do
> Numeric/numarray/scipy.
>
> Have I missed the one true Python mathematical morphology toolbox?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
> [1] http://www.mmorph.com/pymorphpro/index.html
> [2] http://www.itk.org/
>
> --
> Alexandre Fayolle                              LOGILAB, Paris (France).
> http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org



From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Fri Oct  7 02:10:22 2005
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:10:22 -0700
Subject: py2exe 0.6.3 released
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F381630@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

py2exe 0.6.3 released
=====================

py2exe is a Python distutils extension which converts Python scripts
into executable Windows programs, able to run without requiring a
Python installation. Console and Windows (GUI) applications, Windows
NT services, exe and dll COM servers are supported.

Changes in 0.6.3:

    * First release assembled by py2exe's new maintainer, Jimmy
      Retzlaff. Code changes in this release are from Thomas Heller
      and Gordon Scott.

    * The dll-excludes option is now available on the command line.
      It was only possible to specify that in the options argument to
      the setup function before.

      The dll-excludes option can now be used to filter out dlls like
      msvcr71.dll or even w9xpopen.exe.

    * Fix from Gordon Scott: py2exe crashed copying extension modules
      in packages.

Changes in 0.6.2:

    * Several important bugfixes:

      - bundled extensions in packages did not work correctly, this
        made the wxPython single-file sample fail with newer wxPython
        versions.

      - occasionally dlls/pyds were loaded twice, with very strange
        effects.

      - the source distribution was not complete.

      - it is now possible to build a debug version of py2exe.

Changes in 0.6.1:

    * py2exe can now bundle binary extensions and dlls into the
      library-archive or the executable itself.  This allows to
      finally build real single-file executables.

      The bundled dlls and pyds are loaded at runtime by some special
      code that emulates the Windows LoadLibrary function - they are
      never unpacked to the file system.

      This part of the code is distributed under the MPL 1.1, so this
      license is now pulled in by py2exe.

    * By default py2exe now includes the codecs module and the
      encodings package.

    * Several other fixes.

Homepage:

    <http://www.py2exe.org>

Download from the usual location:

    <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=15583>

Enjoy,
Jimmy


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct  3 15:09:28 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:09:28 -0500
Subject: Python TNEF (winmail.dat attachment access) library?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1385.1128356022.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1385.1128356022.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <UbudnTAy18B6HNzeRVn-vw@comcast.com>

Why not write Python class that uses CTypes and make it
available as a recipe?  From a performance standpoint it
is unlikely you can do better than to call the .dll and
have it do the work for you.  Just a suggestion.

-Larry Bates

Petri Savolainen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> has anyone seen such a beast? I tried googling, PyPI, Parnassus etc. but
> could not find any pure-python code nor extensions to interface with any
> of the existing implementations.
> 
> I am thinking about taking the Ruby code I found at
> 
> http://www.zweknu.org/technical/index.rhtml?s=p%7c15
> 
> and converting that to Python. I have no experience with Ruby so this
> will be rather interesting...
> 
> I guess another option would be to use CTypes to plug into some tnef
> shared library/DLL. I'd prefer a pure-python route though...
> 
> Any pointers/recommendations appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  Petri
> 


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 10:24:31 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:24:31 -0700
Subject: question about output
Message-ID: <1128522271.424943.204030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

i have printed out some numbers and they look like

10944800e
10952560d

...if i want to later assign this type of number to variable how can i
do it?

for example i can't do...

>> x = 10944800e

..since it says "invalid token" on the "e".

thanks.



From asma61 at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Oct  7 02:44:23 2005
From: asma61 at dsl.pipex.com (DaveM)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:44:23 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -0000, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

>On 2005-10-06, DaveM <asma61 at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>>>Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full
>>>monty" or "trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn
>>>word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the
>>>most part.
>>
>> Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that
>> British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled,
>> while first-generation Americans whose English is. um,
>> limited, are not.
>
>What?!?  I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of
>the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a
>nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting)
>where the dialog was inaudible because of the music.

I noticed this watching news footage rather than imported shows. I haven't
seen 'Trainspotting', but I have seen Scottish accents subtitled
(unnecessarily) on English TV, to understandable anger across the border -
so this isn't uniquely a US phenomenon, to be fair.

<snip>
>For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the
>subject consists of more than one person.  Sports teams,
>government departments, states, corporations etc. are 
>grammatically plural.  In American, the verb agrees with the
>word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by
>that word.
>
>In sports (thats "sport" for you Brits):

Yes.

> American: Minnesota is behind 7-0.  The Vikings are behind 7-0.
>  British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0.

True.

>In politics:

>  American: The war department has decided to cancel the program.
>   British: The war department have decided to cancel the program.

Not sure about this one. They may be used interchangeably as neither strikes
me as sounding "odd".

DaveM


From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 02:54:08 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 23:54:08 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <1128668048.622568.187890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

thanks Leif.  poor question on my part.

I had been using

    glob.glob(path)==[]

and was looking for something more readable, hence

    os.system('[ -e %s ]' % path )

but that doesn't seem like a good idiom for crossplatform.

I thought there may either be a way to escape the wildcards, or an
alternative to os.access, or ....

any other ideas?



From mvanaswegen at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 04:35:14 2005
From: mvanaswegen at gmail.com (vpr)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 01:35:14 -0700
Subject: wxPython advice
Message-ID: <1129538114.173460.176180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi Guys

I have a question re. socketserver and wx.

I've written a p2p program using socketserver that's nice and quick.
I'd like to give the user a tray applet (part of the p2p service) that
will allow the user to activate / deactivate / config and exit the
service.
However I'm starting to bang my head on the mainloop funtions that
manage
wx and socket events.

Anyone been down this road that can give me some advice

Marinus



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 25 20:17:40 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:17:40 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <ioitl1dbplmtvlagd19ho3i4coni0g9kul@4ax.com>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:03:36 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>You don't care that because of Microsoft's neglect, there are millions of
>zombie PCs running their sub-standard OS across the world, sending
>hundreds of millions of spam emails? 

Of course he cares. He is a shill. He licks that hand that feeds him.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Wed Oct 12 21:44:26 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 18:44:26 -0700
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
Message-ID: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello

Was wandering if there is any place where some one could go to get
mentoring on python coding.  I have started coding in python but I am
the only one in the shop  using it.  So there is no one around to look
over my code give suggestions on improvement, in style, logic, easier
ways of doing things etc.  I am not really looking for hand holding as
much mentoring.  I have purchased about every python book out and have
a list a mile long on my internet bookmarks.  I believe I have a good
grasp of the fundamentals procedurally and I am fighting my way through
OOP.  I am more at the stage of trying to pull things together into
programs that perform real world tasks.  At one point I thought I saw
some place on one of the web site that did this kind of thing but I
can't find it now.

Any help or suggestions welcomed
Len Sumnler



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 01:56:06 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:56:06 +0200
Subject: Help needed in OOP-Python
References: <c293dd340510042234s74a4db47x85bdd5658a1ad803@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dhvpto$o0q$1@sea.gmane.org>

Toufeeq Hussain wrote:

> I have 3 modules which have class declarations in them and which implement
> multiple inheritance.

> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "E:\PyPBM\PyPBM\test_case.py", line 7, in ?
>TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()

there's no line that says "TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()" in the
code you're posted.  looks like you didn't really post the code you
tested...

</F>





From caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca  Thu Oct 20 11:34:17 2005
From: caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca (Casey Hawthorne)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:34:17 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>

What languages do you know already?

What computer science concepts do you know?

What computer programming concepts do you know?


Have you heard of Scheme?


Ruby is a bit Perl like -- so if you like Perl, chances are you might
like Ruby.

Python is more like Java.

I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
about
10,000 lines in C++
it is about
5,000 lines in Java
and it is about
3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)



Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>In article <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280 at tornado.texas.rr.com>,
> "Amol Vaidya" <mynewsa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have been 
>> debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. How do these compare and contrast 
>> with one another, and what advantages does one language provide over the 
>> other? I would like to consider as many opinions as I can on this matter 
>> before I start studying either language in depth. Any help/comments are 
>> greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. 
>
>Of all the common scripting languages, Ruby has the highest vowel to 
>consonant ratio.
--
Regards,
Casey


From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 15 18:48:18 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:48:18 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86ll0vs1sw.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
> practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
> PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
> Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
> didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.

    Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car 
without an engine.

    DS




From Gerald.Klix at klix.ch  Thu Oct 20 04:32:38 2005
From: Gerald.Klix at klix.ch (Gerald Klix)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:32:38 +0200
Subject: Abstract Methods & Abstract Class
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D91@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
	<20051020065644.GA10206@heaven.kostyrka.org>
Message-ID: <000a01c5d550$d49d0f50$e92d200a@ppp5>

Isn't 

class AbstractBase:
    def method(self):
        raise NotImplementedError( "abstract method called" )

the right thing to do?

Gerald

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andreas Kostyrka" <andreas at kostyrka.org>
To: "Iyer, Prasad C" <prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Abstract Methods & Abstract Class


> On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 12:05:05PM +0530, Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
> > 
> > Do we have something like abstract methods & Abstract class.
> > 
> > So that my class would just define the method. And the implementation
> > would be defined by somebody else.
> 
> class AbstractBase:
>     def method(self):
>         raise TypeError("abstract method called")
> 
> But basically, Python does not have abstract methods, and usually doesn't
> need them.
> 
> Andreas
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 05:49:01 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:49:01 +0200
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> 
>>AFAIK some LISPs do a similar trick to carry int values on
>>cons-cells. And by this tehy reduce integer precision to 28 bit or
>>something. Surely _not_ going to pass a regression test suite :)
> 
> 
> Lisps often use just one tag bit, to distinguish between an immediate
> object and a heap object.  With int/long unification, Python shouldn't
> be able to tell the difference between an immediate int and a heap int.

That particular implementation used 3 or 4 tag-bits. Of course you are 
right that nowadays python won't notice the difference, as larger nums 
get implicitely converted to a suitable representation. But then the 
efficiency goes away... Basically I think that trying to come up with 
all sorts of optimizations for rather marginal problems (number 
crunching should be - if a python domain at all - done using Numarray) 
simply distracts and complicates the code-base. Speeding up dictionary 
lookups OTOH would have a tremendous impact (and if I'm n ot mistaken 
was one of the reasons for the 30% speed increase  between 2.2 and 2.3)

DIEZ


From antonxx at gmx.de  Tue Oct 11 09:39:28 2005
From: antonxx at gmx.de (anton)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 06:39:28 -0700
Subject: HELP: Searching File Manager written in Python
Message-ID: <1129037968.366932.144250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am googeling some hours now ... still without result.

So I have a question:

Does somebody know a filemanager:

 - which looks like Norton Commander/7-Zip Filemanager

 - where I can add python scripts which I can execute
   on a selected file


I already looked at wxpyatol but its not what I search, and its no
more developped.

Thanks 


 Stephane



From bonono at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 01:54:30 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 22:54:30 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129701270.792327.168620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

it will be added in 2.5 I beleve. At the moment, you can:

predicate and <true expression> or <false expression>

like :
>>> os.paths.exists(something) and "print it is there" or "file not found"

I am practicing FP in python and it is in general doable with the help
of itertools and add the needed functions as needed, like scanl/scanl1
etc.

A few things I don't like about python for FP is that it relies heavily
on exception which make these one liners not possible in many case.

Example:

a=[]
a[0] would raise exception

I usually prefer None as a special value which can be handled in normal
flow(filter out, may be "x is None and something or otherthing"). But
the liberal use of Exception force you to structure the program either
in a very odd way(test with hasattr/haskey etc. before use) or needs
lots of try/except blocks. I am using a python XHTML template Kid which
relies on one-liner and found it very difficult.

However, if you don't really need one-liner but just FP style to
shorten the program, it is fine but I just find the try/except block
quite ugly.

Then there is the side effect of iterators/generators which unless you
know can burn you badly(especially when you are chaining these objects
in these multiple map/filter calls), as mentioned in another post.

Xah Lee wrote:
> Thanks. Here's how the inner loop should be:
>
> imgPaths2=map(lambda x: (x, re.sub( r"^(.+?)-s(\.[^.]+)$",r"\1\2", x)),
> imgPaths)
>
> though, now i just need something like
>
> map( lambda x: os.path.exists(s)? x[1]:x[0],impPaths2)
>
> but Pyhton doesn't support the
> test ? trueResult : falseResult
> construct.
>
> (the semantic of this construct, of a conditional that RETURNS A
> EXPRESSION, all in one line, is important in functional programing.
> Perl supports it. In Mathematica, it's simply the form If[testExpr,
> trueExpr, falseExpr]. In lisp, similar: (if testExpr trueExpr
> falseExpr) )
>
> is there a way to similate it?
>
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/
>
> bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> > what do you mean by one line ? Using map/filter, I believe it is
> > possible.
> >
> > Somthing like:
> >
> > map(lambda (s,f): os.path.exists(f) and f or s,
> >     map(lambda x: (x, re.replace(x, "-s","")), imgPaths)
> >
> > My regex is a bit rusty but I hope you got the idea of what I am trying
> > to do. If there is a way to make the re return without destroying x,
> > the outer map is not needed I believe(that is run it twice, once for
> > getting the filename to do the testing, then again based on the testing
> > result).
> >



From jeremy.d.brewer at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 17:30:46 2005
From: jeremy.d.brewer at gmail.com (jbrewer)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 14:30:46 -0700
Subject: Python cgi
Message-ID: <1129930246.435616.291660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm currently writing my first CGI script (in Python), and I keep
getting an error I don't know how to address.  I'm not sure if this is
a Python or Apache error, but I suspect it's an Apache config thing.
Anyway, in my code I need to upload a file, so in my HTML there's a
line like

File to upload <input type="file" name="myfile">

and in my Python code I try to read the file following the Python docs
and the Python Cookbook like

form = cgi.FieldStorage()
fileitem = form["myfile"]
if fileitem.file:
    # file upload details...
else:
    # print error stuff to page

The problem is that the "if fileitem.file" test is never true.  After
some debugging I discovered that this is because fileitem is returned
as type MiniFieldStorage instead of FieldStorage, which is described as
"Like FieldStorage, for use when no file uploads are possible."  There
are other fields in the form that are read just fine.  Does anyone know
why no file uploads would be possible?  I know very little about
configuring Apache, unfortunately.

Also, I need to run an external program with my CGI script using
something like os.system with flags from input forms, which is a major
security risk.  Is it simply enough to test for flag.isalnum() or
should I do more to prevent random programs from being run?  I should
also do some minimal DOS protection as well, so information on how to
do that simply would be appreciated as well.

Some system info:
Fedora Core 3
Apache 2.0.53
Python 2.3.4

Thanks,
Jeremy



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Oct 19 15:22:14 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:22:14 -0700
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <1129642964.690532.242710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129574592.754495.72530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129642964.690532.242710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

The OP is obviously a troll. Or he doesn't realize that you can use any shell 
in OSX as the user default. I used OSX for 4 years and had to go 100% Linux 
because of my employer. OSX is the best of Linux and Windows--anybody who 
can't see that has obviously not worked with these three types of operating 
systems enough and is basing conclusions on limited information...Or is a 
troll. The OP probably works for microsoft.

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:58:37 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:58:37 +0200
Subject: cell and row
References: <1d987df30510250150mb4f0f97y79d6e93c0c0d66ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djks42$5fp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Shi Mu wrote:

>I can not understand the use of "cell" and "row" in the code:
>
> # convert the matrix to a 1D list
> matrix = [[13,2,3,4,5],[0,10,6,0,0],[7,0,0,0,9]]
> items = [cell for row in matrix for cell in row]
> print items

working through the Python tutorial might be a good idea.  here's the section
on list comprehensions:

http://docs.python.org/tut/node7.html#SECTION007140000000000000000

and here's the section on for loops:

http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006200000000000000000

briefly:

    items = [cell for row in matrix for cell in row]

or, slightly edited for clarity:

    items = [(cell)
        for row in matrix
            for cell in row]

is the same thing as:

    items = []
    for row in matrix:
        for cell in row:
            items.append(cell)

except that it's a bit shorter, and a bit more efficient.

</F> 





From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 08:07:38 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 08:07:38 -0400
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1781.1128838838.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Lb-dnVf65sXCndTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <86r7aulwqd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:

> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> <snip>
>>     "Unlike mainstream component programming, scripts usually
>>     do not introduce new components but simply "wire" existing
>>     ones. Scripts can be seen as introducing behavior but no
>>     new state. /.../ Of course, there is nothing to stop a
>>     "scripting" language from introducing persistent state -- it
>>     then simply turns into a normal programming language."
>>         -- Clemens Szyperski, in "Component Software":
> <snip>
>
> That description seems to describe whatever is written more than
> whatever it is written in, or in other words, it describes the
> difference between a script and a program, not between a scripting
> language and a programming language.

It also pretty solidly capture what a shell script does.

> I think that at one time, scripting languages was something that lived
> within other programs, like Office, and couldn't be used by themselves
> without running it inside that program, and as thus was a way to add
> minor functions and things to that program.

That's certainly one kind of scripting language. But I don't think
it's ever been the only kind - shells have always been stand-alone
applications. What they have in common with your definition is that
both types of languages are used to capture user actions for later
repetition. And that's what makes a scripting language: it's a
language in which one writes "scripts" that describe actions -
normally taken by a user - so that a series of them can be performed
automatically.

For my take on the ontology of scripting languages, see <URL:
http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/scripting/what.html >.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From am_public at email.it  Tue Oct 25 09:38:03 2005
From: am_public at email.it (Mattia Adami)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:38:03 -0700
Subject: security
Message-ID: <1130247483.668999.322640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi to all.
I'm intristing in write a plugin for browsers that can execute python
code.
I know the main problem is security. Many thread were opened about this
in the ng.
I would know if fork python rewriting some library could avoid
problems. I.e. one problem is the possibility to access files. If I
rewrite the open() function so that raises exception if the program try
to access a file out of a defined directory.
I'm sure not a security expert, so please be patient if my question is
stupid.
Thanks to all.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct 12 17:58:50 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:58:50 +0200
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
In-Reply-To: <slrndkq5jv.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1961.1129124798.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndkq5jv.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <3r5f8qFh7tufU1@uni-berlin.de>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> I don't know. The python dictionary type with its name, seem to refer
> to how it is implemented, so I thought Tree was an appropiate name
> here as it is implemented as a tree.

I too had the impression you're talking about a tree-implementation, not 
a mapping based on key compare operations.

Java calls such a thing TreeMap - so maybe TreeDict would be a suitable 
name.

Diez


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 29 13:24:19 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:24:19 -0400
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130592935.839750.322930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h56rdh.1lgzv2op15fcpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86vezgck3g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

>    ...
>> But the problem is that in Linux you can't even send a keystroke to
>> a running GUI application!
> Actually, if the app is running under X11 you may try to fake out a
> keystroke event (with low level calls, but ctypes might let you use it
> from Python).  Of course, the app WILL be told that the keystroke is
> fake, through a special flag if it cares to check for it, for security
> reasons; but if the app doesn't specifically defend itself in this way.

I'm pretty sure that python-xlib can do this without having to go to
low level calls.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Tue Oct 11 01:11:06 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:11:06 +0200
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <434b49ce$0$21693$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !

I agree with you; I will adore capacity to call functions named in Unicode.

@-salutations

Michel Claveau





From eight02645999 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 05:34:40 2005
From: eight02645999 at yahoo.com (eight02645999 at yahoo.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 02:34:40 -0700
Subject: do cc list from smtplib
Message-ID: <1129887280.469124.107340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi
i have email code:

def email(HOST,FROM,TO,SUBJECT,BODY):
    import smtplib
    import string, sys


    body = string.join((
    "From: %s" % FROM,
    "To: %s" % TO,
    "Subject: %s" % SUBJECT,
    "",
    BODY), "\r\n")

    print body

    server = smtplib.SMTP(HOST)
    server.sendmail(FROM, [TO],body)
    server.quit()


is there a way to include CC list for the smtplib module?
thanks



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 13 01:32:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:32:03 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86r7aqugmk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> 3. prevent phishing.  When PayPal sends you an email, you want to know
> for sure it really is from PayPal.  This means corporate users at
> least will all have digital ids, and all emails will be digitally
> signed.

That won't prevent phishing, that will just raise the threshhold a
little. The first hurdle you have to get past is that most mail agents
want to show a human name, not some random collection of symbols that
map to a unique address. Even if you do that, most readers aren't
going to pay attention to said random collection of symbols. Given
that, there are *lots* of tricks that can be used to disguise the
signed name, most of which phishers are already using. How many people
do you think will really notice that mail from "John Bath, PayPal
Customer Service Representative" (john.barth at paypa1.com) isn't really
from paypal?

Unicode makes things *really* interesting.

> 4. status tracking. Unless blocked by the receiver, the sender knows
> if his message has been receiveived/read.

Got that already.

> 5. making it impossible for any incoming email to mount any sort of
> attack. the only parts the email software processes are the data
> parts. Any enclosed programs must be explicitly installed. The email
> software would warn if any code were not digitally signed with proper
> certificate to identify the author.

How 20th century of you. Making it impossible to send executable code
as content is a major step backwards from what we've got now, and
you're the last person I would have expected to do that.

The solution is to run the code in a sandbox. This is an old
technology, and fairly well understood. Except maybe in Redmond.

   <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From amichail at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 20:40:48 2005
From: amichail at gmail.com (Amir  Michail)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 17:40:48 -0700
Subject: deleting a parameter's name as it is passed to a function
Message-ID: <1129336848.353805.176360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I think it would be useful to delete a name of a parameter object as
the object is passed to a function:

dosomestuff(del a)

instead of

dosomestuff(a)
del a

The idea is to garbage collect the object as soon as possible, and this
may be sooner than when dosomestuff returns.

Amir



From egbert.bouwman at hccnet.nl  Sun Oct 23 17:25:27 2005
From: egbert.bouwman at hccnet.nl (egbert)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:25:27 +0200
Subject: PyGTK color blackout
Message-ID: <20051023212527.GA14517@hccnet.nl>

Without success I try to understand the color mechanism in PyGTK.
It's about the classes Color an Colormap, and their methods and
related functions and other paraphernalia.
If anyone knows about a tutorial-like systematic description, 
I will be very grateful.
-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Oct 13 16:18:46 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:18:46 -0500
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4@4ax.com>
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86slv8xdkw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200510131518.46292.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Wednesday 12 October 2005 04:37 pm, Roedy Green wrote:
> It is a bit like termites. If we don't do something drastic to deal
> with spam, the ruddy things will eventually make the entire Internet
> unusable.
> 
> the three keys to me are:
> 
> 1. flipping to a digital id based email system so that the sender of
> any piece of mail can be legally identified and prosecuted.
> If every piece of anonymous email disappeared that would go a long way
> to clearing up spam.  Let those sending ransom notes, death threats
> and  hate mail use snail mail.  As a second best, correspondents are
> identified by permission/identity/encryption keys given to them by
> their recipients.

Well, that certainly won't accomplish much -- not without a world
government, anyway. Much (maybe most) of the spam I receive is
international (from Russia, Japan, Southeast Asia, the Middle East,
Africa, even the Phillipines).  Most of it is also already illegal,
so new legislation will certainly make no difference.

The only thing you buy with an authentication system is that you
can filter out the problems at the ISP or on the uploading side,
thus saving a lot of bandwidth. But it would have to be very widely
accepted to actually reduce spamming.

Now, of course, spammers are also hitting web forms and blogs and
other protocols besides e-mail.

> 2. flipping to a sender pays system so that the Internet does not
> subsidise spam.

Then I won't be posting on the Python list anymore, I can assure you.
This would chill a lot of the purposes for which email is ideal.

> 3. Mail is not transported without prior permission.  The receiver can
> turn that permission on and off any time he chooses.  This is
> basically an automated version of what Zaep does where the sender is
> not consciously aware of the permission-getting step.

Well, this is already happening at the level of my mail client. I
gather you have something more centralized in mind?

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 27 15:21:29 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:21:29 -0400
Subject: how do i run another script from my python script
References: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<djr33t$aeo$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <86fyqmix52.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Daniel Sch?le <uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> writes:
> Steve already answeared to your question, regaring PHP script
> if this would be python script, you could run it by import'ing it

That's not very pythonic. Better is to provide a function in the
script to run it (say run), then run that in the script iff it's
the script is being executed:

    if __name__ == '__main__':
       run()

Then to use it from another script, you'd do something like:

     import myscript
     myscript.run()

> or maybe using threading

Launching new threads as part of the import process is
*dangerous*. There are some nasty bugs lurking there that cause things
like your import never finishing. If you need to start a thread in a
module, the approach outlined above avoids those bugs.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From iddw at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 11:09:54 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:09:54 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<wzzmpf80cj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <1129129852.92dc41cf1bd445c448e00bd42ec59500@teranews>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:02:20 +0200, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
wrote:

>>>>>> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> (PR) wrote:
>
[...]
>
>>PR> Yeah, "if C then A else B" is a ancient tradition stretching from
>>PR> Algol-60 to OCAML, and who knows what all else in between.  I'm not
>>PR> sure what Guido saw in the "A if C else B" syntax but it's not a big deal.
>
>I suspect it is because "if C then A else B" gives problems in the parser
>because it would have difficulty to distinguish this in time from the if
>statement. This is because the parser doesn't use a very strong formalism. 

So lose the "if."

   R = C then A else B

I don't think python uses the question mark for anything.  Throw that
in, if it makes parsing easier:

   R = C ? then A else B

Regards,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 13 21:42:09 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:42:09 -0400
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
In-Reply-To: <ntudnVqlx-r6eNPeRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>
References: <dim5kv$2jl$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2022.1129227088.509.python-list@python.org>
	<ntudnVqlx-r6eNPeRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <gbmdnaGySuhukdLeRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> The negative integers are being descriminated against!  I demand justice!
> 
>     def integers():
>         yield 0
>         x = 1
>         while True:
>             yield x
>             yield -x
>             x += 1
> 
> ... which is also not a bad demonstration of how the integers are 
> countably infinite.

For some reason I was unable to avoid seeing that one can save a yield 
there (not that they're a scarce resource, mind you):

def integers():
   x = 0
   while True:
     yield -x
     x += 1
     yield x

I know that shouldn't win any readability awards...

-Peter


From albalmer at att.net  Mon Oct 10 12:41:48 2005
From: albalmer at att.net (Alan Balmer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:41:48 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1128888762.964727.17750@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dc6lk1peo89doel0r9nu625jajcg0emt95@4ax.com>

On 9 Oct 2005 13:12:43 -0700, riplin at Azonic.co.nz wrote:

>> My grandma doesn't put captions in her photo album,
>> and she doesn't need captions on her photos in email.
>
>She doesn't need captions in the album because she will explain the
>pictures, at length, every single one of them, to anyone who comes
>within grabbing distance.
>
>> "Here's Johnny with the dog. Here is Johnny with the
>> dog again. This one is Johnny on his own. Here is the
>> dog. Oh look, it is Johnny with the dog again --  ...
>
>If your photos are so banal then only people who would recognise the
>people would care about them.
>
>Captions are for people who won't recognise the subject of the photo.
>When you send a photo of a house to Granma is she supposed to just
>_know_ that it your new house, or the one across the road, or the one
>that burnt down last week ?

You might try something truly innovative, like including a line in the
email that says "Hi, Grandma, here's a picture of our new house."
-- 
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis at att.net


From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Sat Oct 15 14:23:09 2005
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:23:09 GMT
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051014170644.1803.75237.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129316814_3173@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051015094021.2058.55430.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129385149_1570@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <20051015173304.1927.10195.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>

Mentre io pensavo ad una intro simpatica "Cousin Stanley" scriveva:

>> I'd add also config.txt ;-)
>
>   I did but failed to include it in the list I posted ....

yes of course.

>   One small config problem that I haven't figured out
>   how to deal with .... 
>
>       I use a dark background with white foreground text .... 
>
>       When posting a reply in the compose/edit window
>       the cursor is  NOT  visible .... 
>
>   Is there an incantation I can add to the config file
>   that might render the cursor visible on a dark background ?

It's a well known issue, I haven't find a way to change the cursor color
yet :-/
I also posted an help request on the pygtk list, but I had no useful
replies.

-- 
Famous last words: Don't worry, it's not loaded.
 
 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From mail at eikepreuss.de  Tue Oct 25 08:06:20 2005
From: mail at eikepreuss.de (Eike Preuss)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:06:20 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>

David Schwartz wrote:
> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
> news:okh133-n3l.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
> 
> 
>>3) there are plenty of other OSs that are developed or could be
>>developed but which cannot get a foothold or even manage to be put on
>>the shelves because the majority product producer insists on charging
>>hardware manufacturers for every box produced, whether or not it carries
>>their o/s, and does other nasty things like sabotaging their own
>>products so they won't work with a clone o/s.
> 
> 
>     How could he resell an OS that "could be developed"? If nobody wants 
> these operating systems, then it doesn't hurt him not to be able to sell 
> them. If people want them, then he could have shown Microsoft the door.
Shouldn't it be my right as a seller, to decide that I want to sell an
operating system 'that nobody wants' _as well as_ operating systems that
'everybody wants'? So it *hurts* me if I am not able to sell these. That
it doesn't hurt me financially doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt me
(e.g. my freedom, ideas of morality, whatever).

[big snip]

EP


From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Tue Oct 11 06:05:42 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:05:42 +0400
Subject: Batteries Included?
In-Reply-To: <7xwtkk7cmu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <slrndkmn
	p9.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<7xwtkk7cmu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20051011140542.41312d01.jk@ospaz.ru>

On 11 Oct 2005 00:10:01 -0700
Paul Rubin wrote:

> Personally I think including a .exe packager in Python would be a
> great idea.  As a Linux user I can't easily run Windows-specific
> utilities like Inno Setup.  So I don't have a good way to make .exe's
> from my Python code that Windows users can easily run.  Having a cross
> platform .exe packager included with Python would be useful the same
> way cross compilers are useful.  I'm using an x86 computer but I can
> easily configure gcc to produce ARM code.  Why shouldn't my Linux
> Python installation be able to produce Windows .exe's?

Because you can't run it yourself? If you cannot run the freshly-made exe
yourself, why would you want to distrubute it, without even trying? But if
you can, then you can run the InnoSetup as well.

But, for me, I don't care whether such an option will be included or not. I
won't object anyway.

-- 
jk


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Thu Oct 20 22:41:21 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:41:21 -0700
Subject: TK question
In-Reply-To: <1129860960.909273.68840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129860960.909273.68840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510201941.21997.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

optWin() will create a callable object which is an instance of the class 
optWin. Calling this callable object will call the __call__() method with the 
behavior you anticipate. You also need to import Tk from Tkinter and call Tk 
"Tk" and not "tk".

Meditate on the following :


from Tkinter import *

class optWin:

    def __init__(self):
        return None

    def __call__(self):
        self.root = Tk()
        self.root.title("My title")
        self.root.mainloop()
        return None

ow = optWin()
ow()


James

On Thursday 20 October 2005 19:16, MBW wrote:
> class optWin:
>
> ? ? def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? return None
>
> ? ? def __call__(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.root = tk()
> ? ? ? ? self.root.title("My title")
> ? ? ? ? self.root.mainloop()
> ? ? ? ? return None

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca  Sun Oct 16 23:00:54 2005
From: caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca (Casey Hawthorne)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:00:54 GMT
Subject: The value of Big-O notation is for scale ability and the value of the
	constant of proportionality!
Message-ID: <eg46l1dnvec167dhcjcod9nppoaprvmm43@4ax.com>

The value of Big-O notation is for scale ability, since quite often a
an algorithm used for small N is forgotten about in a large program
and not changed when the program has to deal with larger inputs.

It's also useful to know the constant of proportionality, for
different platforms, for code optimization issues.
--
Regards,
Casey


From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 19 02:18:31 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:18:31 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<u3dbl1l2pbsdluivl7l4enl9k440ci9tif@4ax.com>
	<dj4esv$q09$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<48jbl1honbc8ccfnkuo0bjatmqi5bqfks4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj4ofo$tcu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:48jbl1honbc8ccfnkuo0bjatmqi5bqfks4 at 4ax.com...

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:34:55 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>> As for obligations to community, no, there is no such obligation. An
>>executive who devoted his company to his community against his 
>>shareholders'
>>wishes should be fired. The company exists as a vehicle to execute the
>>desires of the shareholders. That's why they get to vote on who runs it.

> Why should loyalty to company trump all other loyalties -- family,
> law, species,  community, country, religion ... ?

    Perhaps you aren't following the thread, but I was talking about the 
obligations a company has, not the obligations any individual has. And I was 
talking about obligations *to* individuals.

    Your criticism would be very appropriate if I said that individuals only 
owe loyalty to companies. But what I said is that Microsoft (a company) owes 
an obligation to its shareholders (people). That is, that companies exist 
purely to benefit people.

    It is funny that your accusation is based on assuming I said exactly the 
opposite of what I actually said.

    DS




From free.condiments at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 19:20:55 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 16:20:55 -0700
Subject: wierd threading behavior
In-Reply-To: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129332055.328658.209220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

thread is a low-level threading module, and start_new is deprecated.
Aside from that, thread.start_new(test.()) is syntaxically wrong (a
pair of brackets can't follow a dot). However, your example does work
for me once I fix the syntax, and it prints hello but then hangs. I
can't explain the other results, though - possibly undefined behaviour
or more likely me not having much experience with the low-level thread
interface.

Use threading instead, like so:

import threading

def test():
    print 'Test successful!'

def main():
    thread = threading.Thread(target = test)
    thread.start()

main()



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 02:35:57 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 06:35:57 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <2u59l1555jubv8qv09q57qh8m4skei9dqi@4ax.com>

On 18 Oct 2005 06:20:56 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>
>That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML recommendation by 
>w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, and mixing them up by 
>calling both standards is a bad thing.

Because ... what are the consequences?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct  6 17:07:15 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:07:15 -0500
Subject: So far (about editing tools)
In-Reply-To: <7xr7aypf64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
	<48D17FEA-3E2D-46CA-AEB4-86EA1CFACCB1@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.1634.1128629828.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7aypf64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <B92680F1-A022-436A-A579-B1D585E4EA0D@sbcglobal.net>

As I did mention in my original post, Eclipse is indeed bloated.  
However, in spite of that, I've found it both fast and reliable (much  
to surprise). The only real problem is learning what functionality  
(the majority) to ignore.

PyDev offers nice integration with Python. If I run a python program  
from within PyDev, errors are reported on the console, and clicking  
on an error takes me to the offending line number. Jython is also  
supported, though I haven't tried it.

I personally gave up on Emacs after spending four hours trying to get  
a perfectly simple keybinding working, and receiving no response from  
the emacs mailing list--they were apparently as mystified as I.

I don't mean to push Eclipse, but I looked at it several times before  
trying it, and backed off due to the concerns mentioned here. Once I  
actually sat down with it for about four hours to _concentrate_ on  
it, though, it rapidly became obvious that it with PyDev really was  
the best Python solution I'd found. If you do a lot of Python work,  
it's worth the effort to learn.

Ken
On 6-Oct-05, at 3:24 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> writes:
>
>> Furthermore, Eclipse requires java and is thusly not provided on any
>> linux distro I'm familiar with, which I consider a huge  
>> roadblock.  And
>> as mentioned, it's bloated.
>>
>
> It comes with Fedora Core 4 and is compiled with gcj.
>
>
>> I would suspect that the majority of Python programmers write in  
>> one of
>> vim or emacs. Anyone got stats?
>>
>
> I'm a long time emacs bigot but lately I've been editing Python with
> IDLE.  IDLE leaves a lot to be desired but its integration is very
> convenient.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 10 14:47:34 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:47:34 -0700
Subject: subprocess and non-blocking IO (again)
References: <434a80e4_2@news3.prserv.net>
Message-ID: <donn-D46A5E.11473410102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <434a80e4_2 at news3.prserv.net>,
 Marc Carter <mcarter at uk.ibm.com> wrote:
> I am trying to rewrite a PERL automation which started a "monitoring" 
> application on many machines, via RSH, and then multiplexed their 
> collective outputs to stdout.
> 
> In production there are lots of these subprocesses but here is a 
> simplified example what I have so far (python n00b alert!)
> - SNIP ---------
> import subprocess,select,sys
> 
> speakers=[]
> lProc=[]
> 
> for machine in ['box1','box2','box3']:
>      p = subprocess.Popen( ('echo '+machine+';sleep 2;echo goodbye;sleep 
> 2;echo cruel;sleep 2;echo world'), stdout=subprocess.PIPE, 
> stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, stdin=None, universal_newlines=True )
>      lProc.append( p )
>      speakers.append( p.stdout )
> 
> while speakers:
>      speaking = select.select( speakers, [], [], 1000 )[0]
>      for speaker in speaking:
>          speech = speaker.readlines()
>          if speech:
>              for sentence in speech:
>                  print sentence.rstrip('\n')
>                  sys.stdout.flush() # sanity check
>          else: # EOF
>              speakers.remove( speaker )
> - SNIP ---------
> The problem with the above is that the subprocess buffers all its output 
> when used like this and, hence, this automation is not informing me of 
> much :)

You're using C stdio, through the Python fileobject.  This is
sort of subprocess' fault, for returning a fileobject in the
first place, but in any case you can expect your input to be
buffered.  You're asking for it, because that's what C stdio does.
When you call readlines(), you're further guaranteeing that you
won't go on to the next statement until the fork dies and its
pipe closes, because that's what readlines() does -- returns
_all_ lines of output.

If you want to use select(), don't use the fileobject
functions. Use os.read() to read data from the pipe's file
descriptor (p.stdout.fileno().)  This is how you avoid the
buffering.

> This topic seems to have come up more than once.  I am hoping that 
> things have moved on from posts like this:
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5472ce95e
> b430002/434fa9b471009ab2?q=blocking&rnum=4#434fa9b471009ab2
> as I don't really want to have to write all that ugly 
> fork/dup/fcntl/exec code to achieve this when high-level libraries like 
> "subprocess" really should have corresponding methods.

subprocess doesn't have pty functionality.  It's hard to say
for sure who said what in that page, after the incredible mess
Google has made of their USENET archives, but I believe that's
why you see dup2 there - the author is using a pty library,
evidently pexpect.  As far as I know, things have not moved on
in this respect, not sure what kind of movement you expected
to see in the intervening month.  I don't think you need ptys,
though, so I wouldn't worry about it.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From dietmar at schwertberger.de  Tue Oct  4 10:49:04 2005
From: dietmar at schwertberger.de (Dietmar Schwertberger)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:49:04 +0200
Subject: help w/ simple GPIB prog.
References: <1128394388.461568.110390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ant0414040b02%2U@RiscPC.schwertberger.de>

In article <1128394388.461568.110390 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, whoopsi
<URL:mailto:allen.cross at gmail.com> wrote:
>    I thought I would simply be able to open a port, and send SCPI
> commands to configure and aquire values. But when I tried to run GPIB
> .py files from gpib-device-0.0.4 I got an error: "symbol 'ibsta' not
> found". Doing some searching I found that ibsta was refering to a
> library for GPIB (I'm assuming some .dll from a driver) and wrapping
> them???. But these instruments as far as I know don't need drivers.
Sounds like it's missing the driver for the GPIB board.
What kind of GPIB card is it? The driver should be available from the web
site of the manufacturer.


Regards,

Dietmar



From frank at chagford.com  Tue Oct 11 05:20:24 2005
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 02:20:24 -0700
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <3r1ch4FgbogbU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didmcq$v69$1@online.de>
	<1129015844.347274.145840@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r1ch4FgbogbU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129022424.781501.254530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > Thanks for this pointer. I have read it, but I don't think it applies
> > to my situation, as it talks about 'reading' from the child's stdout
> > while the child is 'writing' to stderr.
>
> But that is exactly the point: the psql blocks because you don't read
> away the buffered data. Start a thread, read that stdout/stderr and see
> if things go smoothly.
>
> Diez

Of course (kicks himself), it is obvious now that you have explained
it. I tried your suggestion and it works perfectly.

Many thanks

Frank



From jpablo.romero at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:17:48 2005
From: jpablo.romero at gmail.com (Juan Pablo Romero)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:17:48 -0500
Subject: fun with lambdas
In-Reply-To: <86sluvtshm.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <e6507ac70510202015q447bd244w@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2335.1129865061.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86sluvtshm.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <e6507ac70510211517m6742fc9ft@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all

I settled with this:

def partial1(f,b):

    return lambda a:f(a,b)


def partial2(f,a):

    return lambda b:f(a,b)



   Juan Pablo

2005/10/20, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>:
> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
> > Juan Pablo Romero wrote:
> >> Hello!
> >>
> >> given the definition
> >>
> >> def f(a,b): return a+b
> >>
> >> With this code:
> >>
> >> fs = [ lambda x: f(x,o) for o in [0,1,2]]
> >>
> >> or this
> >>
> >> fs = []
> >> for o in [0,1,2]:
> >>     fs.append( lambda x: f(x,o) )
> >>
> >> I'd expect that fs contains partial evaluated functions, i.e.
> >>
> >> fs[0](0) == 0
> >> fs[1](0) == 1
> >> fs[2](0) == 2
> >>
> >> But this is not the case :(
> >>
> >> What is happening here?
> >
> > Namespaces. The functions are looking up o at runtime. In both cases, o
> > is bound to the last object in [0,1,2] once the iteration is finished.
> >
> > Try this (although I'm sure there are better ways):
> >
> > In [4]: fs = [lambda x, o=o: f(x, o) for o in [0,1,2]]
> >
> > In [5]: fs[0](0)
> > Out[5]: 0
> >
> > In [6]: fs[0](1)
> > Out[6]: 1
> >
> > In [7]: fs[0](2)
> > Out[7]: 2
>
> Right explanation. Right solution. Wrong examples. He wanted to see:
>
> >>> fs[0](0)
> 0
> >>> fs[1](0)
> 1
> >>> fs[2](0)
> 2
> >>>
>
> List comprehensions were purposely designed to mimic for loops, which
> (unlike other languages) don't create a new variable for each pass
> through the loop. ((They also "leak" the variable to the surrounding
> namespace.) So you need to capture the current value of the loop index
> somewhere. An alternative (and maybe slightly cleaner) method is:
>
> >>> def makef(a):
> ...  return lambda b: a + b
> ...
> >>> fs = [makef(o) for o in [0, 1, 2]]
> >>> fs[0](0)
> 0
> >>> fs[1](0)
> 1
> >>> fs[2](0)
> 2
> >>>
>
> Generator comprehensions have the same issue:
>
> >>> fs = list(lambda x: f(o, x) for o in [0, 1, 2])
> >>> fs[0](0)
> 2
> >>> fs[1](0)
> 2
> >>> fs[2](0)
> 2
> >>>
>
>           <mike
> --
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>                      http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
> Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 03:25:24 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 00:25:24 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <IIWdnR05duRDpP3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
	<IIWdnR05duRDpP3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1130397924.430152.22760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> It's a conflict between python's syntax for regex back
> references and
> octal number literals.  Probably wasn't noticed until way
> too late, and
> now it will never change.

So "reasonable choice" is not a really good description of the
phenomenon.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct  7 06:50:41 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 10:50:41 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qmrd2Ffocu8U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrndkcko1.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-07, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at nospam.web.de>:
>> Why do you call this a JAVA Object or C void*? Why don't you call
>> it a PYTHON object. It is this kind of reaction that IMO tells most
>> opponents can't think outside the typesystems they have already
>> seen and project the problems with those type systems on what
>> would happen with python should it acquire a type system.
>
> Well, because maybe I wanted you to give you an example of languages 
> that are statically typed and have such an any construct

But since I have no such type system in mind, such an example is useless.

> - that, by the 
> way, is not a piece of inguine imagination of yours, but has been 
> thought of before, e.g. CORBA (and called there any, too)? It makes no 
> sense putting python into that context - as it is _not_ statically 
> typed. Which you should know, after discussing this very subject way too 
> long.

The fact that something else uses the same name, for something
doesn't mean it has to be implemented the same way.

>>>>Would my suggestion be classified as a statically typed world?
>>>
>>>See above.
>> 
>> 
>> Your answer tells more about you then about my suggestion.
>
> Your answer tells us something too: Just because you don't know anything 
> about typechecking does not mean that you are in the position to make 
> assumptions on "how things could work if the people who know stuff 
> wouldn't be so stupid". That's like saying "cars can't fly because the 
> stupid engineers lack my sense of imagination."

Then argue against my ideas, and not your makings of it.

If I just use 'ANY' and you fill that in with C void* like
implementation and argue against that, then you are arguing
against your own ghosts, but not against what I have in mind.

It may very well turn out that my idea is useless, but I will
only accept that when someone comes with arguments against
my actual idea, and not with arguements against their projection
of it.

> Just blathering about the possibility of some super-duper-typechecker 
> and countering criticism or being told about problems in that domain by 
> making bold statements that this sure could work - provide us with an 
> implementation.

You have not counterd my idea with criticism. You have decorated my
idea with how you think it would be implemented (C void*) and argued
against that. I don't need to give an implementation to notice, that
you jumped to a particular implementation and basicly just countered
that implementation, not the idea in general.

> Or maybe - just maybe - you could sit back and think about the fact that 
> lots of people who are way cleverer than you and me have been working on 
> this subject, and so far haven't found a way. Which doesn't necessarily 
> mean that there is no way - but certainly its hard, theory-laden work 
> and won't emerge in a NG discussion by some snide remarks of either you 
> or anybody else.

As far as I'm concerned that was just meant as a matter of fact remark,
with no snide intentions.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From juho.schultz at helsinki.fi  Tue Oct  4 02:41:34 2005
From: juho.schultz at helsinki.fi (Juho Schultz)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:41:34 +0300
Subject: Background process for ssh port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1330.1128208853.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1330.1128208853.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dht86u$q1q$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Jesse Rosenthal wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm writing a script which will backup data from my machine to a server
> using rsync. It checks to see if I am on the local network. If I am, it
> runs rsync over ssh to 192.168.2.6 using the pexpect module to log in.
> That's the easy part.
> 
> Now, when I'm not on the local network, I first want to open up an ssh
> connection to do port forwarding, so something like this:
> 
> def hostforward():
>     #This is based on the assumption that the passfile is the gnus
>     #authinfo file, or has a similar format...
>     f = open(PASS_FILE, "r")
>     f_list = f.read().split(' ')
>     f.close()
>     #Now, we get the entry after "password" (be slicker to make it a
>     #dictionary, but maybe wouldn't work as well).
>     pass_index = f_list.index('password') + 1
>     forwardpass = f_list[pass_index]
>     #now we connect
>     command = 'ssh -l %s -L 2022:%s:22 %s' % \
>               (login, my_server, forwarding_server)
>     connection = pexpect.spawn(command)
>     connection.expect('.*assword:')
>     connection.sendline(forwardpass)
> 
> If I end this with 'connection.interact()', I will end up logged in to the
> forwarding server. But what I really want is to go on and run rsync to
> localhost port 2022, which will forward to my_server port 22. So, how can
> I put the ssh connection I set up in hostforward() in the background?
> I need to make sure that connection is made before I can run the rsync
> command.
> 
> I've looked at threading, but that seems excessive. There must be an
> easier way. Whatever I do, though, I'll need to use pexpect to spawn the
> processes, since I'll need to log in to ssh servers with a password.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> --Jesse
> 
> 
I am not sure I understand you correctly (my english is a bit limited)
Can you not use something like:

rsync --timeout=5 -e "ssh --with-many-options"


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:09:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:09:31 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
	<20051009164202.70f4d3f5.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu>
Message-ID: <rc2rk1pj3vbeapg26up38709m96jeq5boi@4ax.com>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 16:42:02 +0200, Stefaan A Eeckels
<tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu> wrote or quoted :

>> > http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
>
>It's gone :-)

arghh. try http://mindprod.com/projects/mailreadernewsreader.html
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From http  Fri Oct 14 15:25:07 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 12:25:07 -0700
Subject: Function to execute only once
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xbr1ryk8c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"PyPK" <superprad at gmail.com> writes:
> now I want execute() function to get executed only once. That is the
> first time it is accessed.
> so taht when funcc2 access the execute fn it should have same values as
> when it is called from func1.

There's nothing built into Python for that.  You have to program the
function to remember whether it's already been called.  It sounds like
you're trying to avoid performing some side effect more than once.

Anyway, there's multiple ways you can do it.  The conceptually
simplest is probably just use an attribute on the function:

   tmp = 0       # you want to modify this as a side effect
   def execute():
     global tmp
     if not execute.already_called:
        tmp += 1
        execute.already_called = True
     return tmp
   execute.already_called = False

Other ways include using a class instance, using an iterator, etc.

Generally too, you might find it cleaner to avoid having side effects
like that.  Instead, put tmp itself inside a class instance:

    class Memo:
      def __init__(self):
        self.value = 0    # any side effects operate on this
        self.already_called = False

      def __call__(self):
        if not self.already_called:
           self.already_called = True
           self.value += 1
        return self.value

    execute = Memo()

Now you don't have global state cluttering things up, you can make
multiple instances easily, etc.


From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 15:06:59 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:06:59 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86y84rxryr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<2R75f.2005$dO2.1121@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86mzl6yfko.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <nJb5f.3392$q%.714@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86mzl6yfko.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>> news:86y84rxryr.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:86fyqzzskt.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both
>>>>>> irrelevant.
>>>>> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser.
>>>> Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), 
>>>> that's
>>>> not a feasible goal.
>>> I guess you'd say developing any software isn't a feasible goal,
>>> because it'll never be bug-free, will never have bug-free compilers to
>>> compile it, bug-free linkers to link it, bug-free GUI/db/etc libraries
>>> to link with it, bug-free servers to communicate with, and bug-free
>>> operating systems to run it on. Fortunately, most developers aren't
>>> quite that anal, and realize that you can get useful work done in a
>>> less-than-perfect environment.
>> I'm not speaking theroetically. My company (though not me personally)
>> creates browser-based UIs, and one of the biggest expenses has been 
>> dealing
>> with IE rendering bugs   Given the market share of IE, the fact that
>> something should work, and even does work in Firefox, Opera, etc, is
>> irrelevant.  If it breaks IE, we can't use it.
>
> Been there, done that, threw out the T-shirt as to ugly to wear.
>
> Yes, you have to work around bugs in the popular browsers. That hasn't
> changed since the first published specs showed up. That doesn't mean
> you throw out the standards and only support a trivial set of
> browsers.

If you're working on a commercial product, it means you support IE (possibly 
being able to insist on a specific patch level), Foxfire if you can, and 
ignore the < 1% of the market that won't live with those restrictions. 




From matt.walsh at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 21:02:00 2005
From: matt.walsh at gmail.com (MBW)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 18:02:00 -0700
Subject: Simple server/client application
In-Reply-To: <1130200091.651575.221970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130184666.541928.133350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130187450.794254.60660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130200091.651575.221970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130202120.753271.33410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

thanks both of you,

I should have realized what was gonig on

Cheers,
Matt



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 03:58:50 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:58:50 +0100
Subject: how to get any available port
In-Reply-To: <20051004211115.GC29124@unpythonic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<20051004211115.GC29124@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <di013i$8u3$1@sea.gmane.org>

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:
> Apparently, calling bind() with a zero "port" will choose some available port
> number, as demonstrated by this program:
> 
> import socket
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> s.bind(("", 0))
> print s.getsockname()
> 
> Here's how it behaved over several runs:
> $ python soc.py 
> ('0.0.0.0', 34205)
> $ python soc.py 
> ('0.0.0.0', 34206)
> $ python soc.py 
> ('0.0.0.0', 34207)
> 
> I don't know for sure whether this is standard behavior for sockets, or whether
> it's a special behavior of linux.
> 
It's been standard behaviour ever since the Berkeley socket interface 
was defined, as far as I know.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 11:55:11 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:55:11 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> Maybe that's the key difference between the mindset of a
> mathematician and that of an engineer -- I consider reaching over
> 95% of visitors to be _quite good indeed_,

Oh? So you'd consider an SMTP/IMAP/POP/DNS/NFS/etc server that
rejected 5% of the systems connecting to be _quite good indeed_? I
think I'm glad that the internet wasn't built by people who agreed
with that.

If you know what you're doing, you can have the best of both worlds
for a lot of web applications. Yes, it won't be as rich or functional
for the five percent who worry about security (or whatever), but it'll
still work. And yes, you can't do it for every application. For those,
anyone vaguely competent will add a warning.

What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
told that that's what's going on.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 11 11:45:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:45:03 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <86slv8xdkw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk writes:
> I don't know how much spam other people receive but on one account I
> hardly receive any as I reserve it for friends and business. On another
> I had about 40 spam messages which took all of ten seconds to delete.
> Hardly a serious matter.

You don't have a spam problem. I get a few thousand spams a day -
which get filtered down to a handful. I don't have a spam problem.

Jeff Poskanzer, now *he* has a spam problem. He gets a few million
spams a day: <URL: http://www.acme.com/mail_filtering/ >.

For anyone who runs an ISP, spam is chewing up an ever-growing
percentage of their bandwidth, and a significant fraction of their
staff time. They have a spam problem.

But me and you, we don't have a spam problem. At most it's an
annoyance.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 13:38:32 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 10:38:32 -0700
Subject: Wrapper function
Message-ID: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am having trouble with a wrapper function...

My C code looks like
-----------------------
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include "Python.h"

int doStuff(const char *input, const char *d) {...}

PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *, PyObject *args) {
	int result;
	char *input = 0;
	char *d = 0;
	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &input, &d);
	if (!ok) return 0;

	result = doStuff(input, d);

	return PyBuildValue("i", result);
}

...when I try to compile this I get
"error C2055: expected formal parameter list, not a type list"  and it
points to line 31...which is the line "PyObject *wrap_doStuff(...)".

I am learning based on the following link:
http://wiki.cacr.caltech.edu/danse/index.php/Lots_more_details_on_writing_wrappers

any ideas?  Note, if I remove the wrapper function, it compiles fine
(so its not an issue with Python.h...i don't think), also I am using
Visual C++ 6
on Win xp.

thanks.



From http  Thu Oct  6 15:55:45 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Oct 2005 12:55:45 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434545b7$0$662$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<86mzlmpo5r.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xpsqictdq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> I think we're using different definitions of statically typed
> here. A language that is statically typed doesn't *need* type
> inferencing - the types are all declared! Type determines the thypes
> by inferenceing them from an examination of the program. 

I thought static typing simply means the compiler knows the types of
all the expressions (whether through declarations or inference) so it
can do type checking at compile time:

> So, for instance, it can determine that this function:
> 
> def foo():
>     return 1
> 
> Won't ever return anything but an integer.

Static typing in this case would mean that re.match('a.*b$', foo())
would get a compile time error, not a runtime error, since re.match
expects two string arguments.  This can happen through type inference
w/o declarations.

Note apropos the private variable discussion that CPython can't
guarantee that foo() always returns an integer.  Something might
change foo.func_code.co_code or something like that.

> Maybe you're still writing code for a language with declerations? I
> never felt that need. Then again, I came to Python from a language
> that didn't require declerations: Scheme.

I've done a fair amount of Lisp programming and have found the lack of
compile-time type checking to cause about the same nuisance as in
Python.  I also notice that the successors to the old-time Lisp/Scheme
communities seem to now be using languages like Haskell.

> > Well, in the end, I would really like an *option* at the beginning of a
> > module file requiring variable declaration for the module. It would
> > satisfy both the ones who want and the ones who don't want that ...
> 
> Nope. It would just change the argument from "Python should have ..."
> to "You should always use ..." or "Module foo should use ...".

Perl has a feature like that right now, and it doesn't lead to many such
arguments.


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Oct  7 07:57:45 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:57:45 -0400
Subject: New Python book
In-Reply-To: <43464E24.3050609@acm.org>
References: <mailman.1572.1128550286.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43464E24.3050609@acm.org>
Message-ID: <434662B9.3080004@bellsouth.net>

Maurice LING wrote:

>I had the opportunity to glance through the book in Borders yesterday. 
>On the whole, I think it is well covered and is very readable. Perhaps I 
>was looking for a specific aspect, and I find that threads did not get 
>enough attention. Looking at the index pages, the topics on threads 
>(about 4-5 pages) is mainly found in the context of GUI programming.
>
>maurice
>
>  
>
I don't have my hard copy of the book, but from memory and grepping over 
the soft copy, you appear to be correct.  Remember, though, that this is 
a beginning book on Python and *I* would consider threading a more 
advanced topic.  I think putting threading in the context of GUI 
programming is just about right for an intro book.

- jmj


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  4 17:25:30 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:25:30 -0500
Subject: how to get any available port
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041716530.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
References: <11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041716530.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <20051004212530.GA5929@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 05:19:37PM -0400, Mohammed Smadi wrote:
> what else would you do?  I am using examples from the web and they all 
> bind to a port at the localhost before connecting to the remote host.
[...]

the web must be stupider than I thought.

Here's how Python's own ftplib connects to an ftp server (dedented for clarity):
    try:
	self.sock = socket.socket(af, socktype, proto)
	self.sock.connect(sa)
    except socket.error, msg:
	...

there's no need to call bind() before connect.

Jeff
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From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Oct 15 04:45:17 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 08:45:17 GMT
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434f8a54$0$16641$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrndl1a35.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:37:25 +0200, Christophe <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:
> Kenneth McDonald a ?crit :
>> For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP  (from 
>> OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that  I can 
...
>> Yes, I know that Cygwin is out there, but last I looked, they still  
>> went through the Win command-line window, which imposes a lot of  
>> restrictions.
...
> Last time I checked, you could install a native win32gui version of rxvt 
> with cygwin. This would give you a better terminal window than that 
> crappy thing you get in XP.

Last time /I/ checked (two years ago or so) that rxvt looked nice enough,
but was impossible to use in practice. I cannot remember /what/ the problem
was -- possibly it was that it could only run CygWin-compiled commands, or
something vital only worked with CygWin-compiled commands. Google probably
knows more.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has improved since then, or if someone else
has come up with a serious Win32 terminal. There is surely a need for one!

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From kent37 at tds.net  Wed Oct 26 14:27:11 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:27:11 -0400
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130350833.334697.60490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130350833.334697.60490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435fc85e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> All I can add to this is:
> 
> - don't use SAX unless your document is huge
> - don't use DOM unless someone is putting a gun to your head

+1 QOTW


From martin.witte at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 03:36:42 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 00:36:42 -0700
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1651.1128661041.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1651.1128661041.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128670602.014619.7160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

You should tell us more about DutyShift.py, without the code it is very
difficult for other people to guess what's going on.



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 16:50:08 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:50:08 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Peter Decker <pydecker at gmail.com> writes:
> Setting the default Reply-To: to the list means that 'Reply' sends
> just to the list (the desired behavior most of the time), and 'Reply
> to all' sends 2 copies.

No, it sends one copy to the list, and one copy to the original
author. This is the behavior you want. The author may not be
subscribed to the list. Such people are most in need of help, and you
want the default to be that they get help.

There are a number of alternatives for users on the list to avoid
getting duplicates. Many lists can be configured to check the headers
for other recipients, and to remove them from the list for that
message. Many mail readers have functionality to detect and eliminate
duplicates - even MS LookOut has that! Personally, I wrote a qmail
dot-command to do it long ago. I can make my dot-commands available if
anyone wants them. There's also a mail header that's been around for
years that tells conforming agents to supress the copy to the
author. Some mail readers honor it, others don't.

> I'm on several other lists, some of which default replies to the list,
> and others which default to the sender. I've *never* seen threads like
> this on the former, while such threads appear like clockwork on the
> latter. Draw your own conclusion.

I see the threads you don't see. Usually started by someone accidently
sending a reply that was very much intended to be private to a public
list. This should be compared to the badness of hitting the wrong
reply when the list is configured properly: only one person gets a
copy. That's easily fixed by asking them to forward it to the list, or
simply reposting your message, with little or no harm done.

My conclusion is that people used to the correct behavior have given
up on fixing the internet, and use tools that fix the part of it they
can see. When I notice that a list is broken (RFC 2822 says that
reply-to is for the *author* of the message; anyone else setting it is
doing so in violation of the RFC, and hence broken, no matter how
useful it may be), I tell my mailer to ignore reply-to on mail from
that list. Similarly, I no longer try and explain to people how long
lines violate RFCs and are a pain to read in well-behave mail readers,
or why mail readers that wrap text/plain content are broken.
Likewise, I restrict my comments on top posting to noting that I've
fixed it (or given up on fixing it and deleted the text as useless)
when I follow up to such things. Asking people to change their ways
because it's better for others is a waste of time - most of the users
on the internet these days don't give shit.

>> Not that it matters that much to me, since I read practically all
>> mailing lists via gmane.org. That turns the lists into newsgroups, where
>> the reply button (follow-up, more accurately) does send the reply to the
>> newsgroup.
> So the answer is to not use the email interface, since the newsgroup
> interface actually gets it right!  :)

Newsreaders only gets it right if it sends copies to posters who
aren't subscribed.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From http  Sun Oct  9 17:06:20 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 14:06:20 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Ilb2f.18523$bb3.758915@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> >His reply wasn't exactly clear, but I that he means that wen you use HTM
> >mail, you don't have to attach the photo with the email. You can also
> >use the HTML to refer to an image somewhere on a webserver.
>  There is that and also the use of HTML formatting, embedded images,
> captioning, rows, borders to make the message look more like a page
> from a photo album.

That's the worst of all.  I certainly don't want my mail reader
opening network connections to arbitrary places when I read my mail.
I have no willingness at all to reveal my mail reading habits or IP
address to everyone who sends me email.  If someone wants a return
receipt, they can use snail mail and fill out a form at the post
office for it.


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 09:53:42 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:53:42 +0200
Subject: How to get the output from os.system() into a variable?
In-Reply-To: <1128519815.769933.60660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128519815.769933.60660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4343DAE6.4050900@designaproduct.biz>

alexLIGO wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I would like to execute some command in python on the bash, e.g.
>
>os.system('globus-job-run mike4.cct.lsu.edu/jobmanager-pbs -l
>/bin/date')
>
>and want the result of the output in a vector, so something like:
>
>result=python_command(' command_on_the_bash ')
>
>Is that possible? And how to do that?
>  
>
You can use one of these:

the subprocess module: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-subprocess.html
the popen2 module: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-popen2.html
popen and spawn variants from the os module:  
http://docs.python.org/lib/os-process.html
pexpect (it is not in the standard library):  
http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/

I believe that if you do not need the extended functionality of 
"pexpect", then you should start with the "subprocess" module.
It is the newest.

   Les





From rrr at ronadam.com  Tue Oct 25 12:20:21 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:20:21 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9Xs7f.4060$Zd.3377@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Ron Adam wrote:
> 
>>James Stroud wrote:
>>
>>>Here it goes with a little less overhead:
>>>
>>>
> 
> <example snipped>
> 
>>But it's not a dictionary anymore so you can't use it in the same places 
>>you would use a dictionary.
>>
>>       foo(**n)
>>
>>Would raise an error.
>>
>>So I couldn't do:
>>
>>    def foo(**kwds):
>>       kwds = namespace(kwds)
>>       kwds.bob = 3
>>       kwds.alice = 5
>>       ...
>>       bar(**kwds)     #<--- do something with changed items
>>
> 
> I agree with Steven D'Aprano's reply, but if you are set on it you could 
> try this:
> 
> 
>>>>class namespace(dict):
> 
> 	def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
> 	    dict.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
> 	    self.__dict__ = self
> 
> 	    
> 
>>>>n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
>>>>n.bob
> 
> 1
> 
>>>>n.bob = 3
>>>>n['bob']
> 
> 3
> 
> The big problem of course with this sort of approach is that you cannot 
> then safely use any of the methods of the underlying dict as they could be 
> masked by values.
> 
> P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting.

Or worse, the dictionary would become not functional depending on what 
methods were masked.


And this approach reverses that, The dict values will be masked by the 
methods, so the values can't effect the dictionary methods.  But those 
specific values are only retrievable with the standard dictionary notation.

     class namespace(dict):
         __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
         __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
         __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__

     n = namespace()
     n.__getattr__ = 'yes'    # doesn't mask __getattr__ method.

     print n['__getattr__']   -> 'yes'

The value is there and __getattr__() still works.  But n.__getattr__ 
returns the method not the value.

So is there a way to keep the functionality without loosing the methods?


BTW, I agree with Steven concerning data structures.  This really isn't 
a substitute for a data structure.  Many keys will not work with this.

     n.my name = 'Ron'
     n.(1,2) = 25
     n.John's = [ ... ]

The use case I'm thinking of is not as a shortcut for data structures, 
but instead, as a way to keep names as names, and maintaining those 
names in a group.  Thus the namespace association.

    def foo(**kwds):
       kwds = namespace(kwds)
       print kwds.name
       print kwds.value
       ...

    name = 'ron'
    value = 25
    foo( name=name, position=position )

Cheers,
    Ron


From http  Tue Oct  4 00:35:01 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 21:35:01 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3bnhlx1m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> writes:
> Now that I'm three months into the development of this program, my
> client tells me she would like to protect her investment by preventing
> her employees from doing the same to her.  (Going to the competition
> and using her program.)

Exactly what is the threat here?  Misuse of confidential data, or just
the code itself?  Does the code do anything that fantastic?  Did the
employees sign NDA's?  Usually this kind of thing is taken care of by
legal agreements.  Occasionally there are disputes that make the news
(Microsoft and Kai-Fu Lee, etc.) but they make the news precisely
because they're rare.  

What is the competitor going to do with this code even if they get it?
It's just keeping track of transactions and stuff, right?  It's being
tailored to one person's specific preferences and requirements, and
the competitor's needs will be different and they may as well just use
something generic.  

Your best bet may be to just explain this to the client, that the most
valuable thing in a business is relationships; technical secrets
aren't nearly as big a deal as some people like to think.  

Also, is there an office network?  Maybe you could run the program on
a server that most employees wouldn't have access to.  They'd use it
through some limited client program or through a web browser.

If you really want to do something with a hardware token, I like this
stuff: <http://basiccard.com>.  Assuming you're in the USA, buy from
the Canadian distributor since shipping from Germany is very expensive.


From carsten at uniqsys.com  Mon Oct  3 16:44:47 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:44:47 -0400
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>
	<1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
Message-ID: <1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 16:41, Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 15:52, Jacob Kroon wrote:
> > Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
> > First let me
> > describe the scenario with an example:
> > 
> > modules/
> >     fruit/
> >         __init__.py
> >         apple.py
> >         banana.py
> > 
> > apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
> > problem lies in the
> > fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
> > peach.py, and not change
> > __init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
> > __init__.py. I've come halfway
> > by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
> > that the instantiated
> > objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
> > I want it to be
> > fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
> > 
> > Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
> > If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
> > be very grateful.
> 
> How about something like this in fruit/__init__.py:
> 
> import os
> 
> fruit_dir = os.path.dirname(__file__)
> fruit_files = [x for x in os.listdir(fruit_dir) if (x[-3:]=='.py' and x!='__init__.py')]
> for fruit_file in fruit_files:
>   module_name = fruit_files[:-3]
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^ This should be fruit_file, of course.

>   exec "from %s import *" % module_name
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Carsten.




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 28 19:58:16 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:58:16 +1000
Subject: How do I sort these?
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sfarbFnt8bvU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130532169.033398.155010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.28.23.58.15.917603@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:42:49 -0700, KraftDiner wrote:

> unzip doesn't seem to work for me...

Nor for me:

>>> unzip
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'unzip' is not defined


I don't think it exists.

But it is easy enough to create:

def unzip(L):
    """Reverse a zip.

    Expects L to be a list of the form:
        [(1, 'a'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'c')]
    and returns:
        [(1, 2, 3), ('a', 'b', 'c')]

    Note that unzip(zip(seq1, seq2)) is not quite a null-op, 
    because some type information is lost, e.g. lists and 
    strings are converted into tuples.
    """
    return zip(*L)

As you can see, the documentation for unzip is longer than the code itself :-)



-- 
Steven.



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 25 12:37:55 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:37:55 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130253519.330211.92880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lsl50soghlt8f@corp.supernews.com>
	<11lsmdg3mmfl9ee@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <11lsnr38dmp1q58@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-25, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> It appears that the Gnuplot modules has coerced my data into
> single-precision -- thus throwing away most of the resolution
> on the x-axis.

Passing Gnuplot.Data a Numeric array object is a good
work-around.  Otherwise, Gnuplot.Data will convert it into a
float (single precision) arry.

Here's a revised demo that works better:

------------------------------8<------------------------------
import Gnuplot,time,sys,math
import Numeric

Gnuplot.GnuplotOpts.prefer_fifo_data = 0

def pause():
    sys.stdout.write("Press enter to continue: ")
    sys.stdin.readline()

def fgrid(start,stop,count):
    for i in xrange(count):
        yield start + ((stop-start)*i)/count

start = time.time()

xdata = [x for x in fgrid(0,600.0,10)]      # two minutes worth
ydata = [math.sin(x/100.0) for x in xdata]
data = Gnuplot.Data(xdata,ydata,with='linespoints',using=(1,2))
gp = Gnuplot.Gnuplot(debug=1)
gp.title('Data starting at %s' % time.asctime(time.gmtime(start+xdata[0])))

# x axis will use default tics (seconds since start of run)
gp.plot(data)
pause()

# same data with x value as Unix timestamps
xdata = [x+start for x in xdata]
a = Numeric.array(zip(xdata,ydata))

data = Gnuplot.Data(a,with='linespoints',using=(1,2))

gp('set xdata time')
gp('set timefmt "%s')
gp('set format x "%r"')
gp('set xtics 120')
gp.plot(data)
pause()


------------------------------8<------------------------------

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The Korean War must
                                  at               have been fun.
                               visi.com            


From http  Tue Oct  4 06:32:24 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 03:32:24 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86y85ahs1j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1128421025.598483.240870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xvf0d4lon.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> writes:
> I may have to just put password protection in and if she hangs herself
> by 'sharing' the password with underlings she trusts (at the
> present)... again that's outside of my control of protecting her.

You could have the password automatically change once a month.  Give
her a master list of passwords and tell her to lock it away.  Each
month she refers to the list and gives underlings a new password.

> Currently this app is running on a stand alone PC.  There was a big
> concern about hackers getting at her program or data from over the
> internet.  I complemented her on this level of security.  No floppy
> drive either.

If the app is not being used too often, install it on a laptop and
lock the laptop in a drawer when not in use.


From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Fri Oct 21 14:10:30 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:10:30 -0400
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> It would be better if cmp would give an indication it
> can't compare two objects instead of giving incorrect
> and inconsistent results.

If two objects aren't totally comparable, then using 'cmp' on them is 
ill-defined to begin with.  The Standard Thing To Do is throw an 
exception; see the Highly Obscure Case of the Complex Numbers.

 >>>1 == 1j
False
 >>>1 != 1j
True
 >>>1 < 1j
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
 >>>cmp(1j,1j)
0
 >>>cmp(1,1j)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=

So using the well-known case of complex numbers, the semantics are 
already well-defined.

 >>> class Incomparable:
...     def __cmp__(self,other):
...             raise TypeError("cannot compare Incomparables using <, 
<=, >, >=")
...     def __eq__(self,other):
...             return self is other
...     def __neq__(self,other):
...             return self is not other
 >>> a1 = Incomparable()
 >>> a2 = Incomparable()
 >>> a1 == a1
1 # I'm running on python 2.2.3 at the moment, so hence the 1.
 >>> a2 == a2
1
 >>> a1 == a2
0
 >>> a1 < a2
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
TypeError: cannot compare Incomparables using <, <=, >, >=
 >>> cmp(a1,a2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
TypeError: cannot compare Incomparables using <, <=, >, >=


So your use-case is already well-defined, and rather simple.  Make 
__cmp__ raise an exception of your choice, and define rich comparators 
only for the comparisons that are supported.  If, as you say in another 
post, "some" pairs in D cross D are comparable on an operator but not 
all of them (and further that this graph is not transitive), then your 
_ONLY_ choices, no matter your implementation, is to return some 
possibly inconsistent result (a < b == 1, b < c == 1, a < c == 0) or 
raise an exception for unapplicable comparisons.

This isn't a Python problem; this is a problem from formal mathematics.

Personally, I'd favor the "raise an exception" case, which is exactly 
what will happen if you define rich comparisons and let cmp throw an 
exception.  Operators that assume comparable objects, like sort, also 
almost always assume a total order -- inconsistent operations can give 
weird results, while throwing an exception will at least (usually) give 
some sort of error that can be caught.

Another poster mentioned the B-tree example, and that isn't solvable in 
this case -- B-trees assume a total order, but by their nature aren't 
explicit about checking for it; inserting a "partial plus exception" 
order might result in tree failure at weird times.  An inconsistent 
order, however, is even worse -- it would corrupt the tree at the same 
times.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 19:44:14 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:44:14 +0000
Subject: looking for a good python module for MS SQL server
In-Reply-To: <dk6211$n1n$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <dk61nj$mm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
	<dk6211$n1n$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <dk6dov$l08$2@sea.gmane.org>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> Anat napisa?(a):
> 
> 
>>Does anyone know a good python mudule that works with MS SQL server?
> 
> 
> Google will yield something, but I prefer adodbapi over specialized
> modules. Works good with SQLServer using SSPI auth (others rather not).
> 
Though it does have problems with stored procedures.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From erniedude at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 10:18:31 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 07:18:31 -0800
Subject: Windows - Need to process quotes in string...
Message-ID: <1130771911.508820.82030@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to use a $ delimeter, but it doesn't seem to work.  Here is
the code:


launchWithoutConsole("devcon.exe",d'$enable
"@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"$)

I want to send the string parameter:

enable "@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"

to the program devcon.

The argument itself is a string, but has quotes inside too.  I've tried
it many different ways and I keep getting syntax errors.

Thanks,



From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 31 18:55:57 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:55:57 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<867jbt2xyb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk64nk$dp0$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<863bmh2t7x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk68l4$f8t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86u0ex1cc9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dk6aue$g4b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86u0ex1cc9.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     You have not disproved that. The closest you've come to a disproof is
>> one case where the word "theft" was used (while earlier in the thread,
>> actual physical force had been used, but not in that specific spot) where
>> the context strongly suggested that it meant theft by force.

> Now you're simply lieing. I never discussed force earlier in the
> thread.

    I didn't say that *you* discussed force. I said it "was used". At that 
time, I was responding to a lot of different people about similar issues, 
and it is true that things said to me by other people will color my 
responses to you. I agree that that isn't always fair.

>>     You are correct that it is possible to steal something without 
>> actually
>> using physical force. But that's not an important difference. The hugely
>> important difference, and the one that you and others *are* seeking to
>> obliterate, is the difference between inherently unjust actions such as
>> force and fraud and actions that are neither forceful nor fraudulent.

> And now you change your story again. You've gone from referring to all
> other criminal acts as "criminals with guns" to "actual use of force"
> to "using force or fraud."

    It is an interesting debate tactic that rather addressing my claims, you 
simply note that they're different to the previous ones. Why does it matter 
whether they're the same or different exactly?

>>> The only consistency here has been
>>> trying to treat MS's crimes as somehow different from other peoples
>>> crimes.
>>     That's because the only crimes that have come up in this thread are
>> Microsoft's crimes (that don't involve force or fraud) and other crimes
>> (such as theft, threats of force, and the like) which do. Duh.

> Actually, they don't necessarily, but that's relevant. You simply
> label *all* crime other than MS's as "criminals with guns" and refuse
> to discuss them.

    No, not at all. If a crime came up that wasn't force or fraud (say, 
possesion of "illegal" drugs), I would just as much insist that the 
difference between this type of crime and a crime involving force or fraud 
be kept in mind. It makes no difference to me who the actor is and all the 
difference in the world what the action is.

>>     There were a few narrow cases where Microsoft was actually accused of
>> actions that I do consider force or fraud.

> That's true. They committed a fraud - by lieing to federal officials
> in court - and *you* responded by calling those federal officials
> "criminals with guns", and using that to *excuse* MS's criminal acts
> in this case.

    Actually, I wasn't aware of any cases where they actually committed 
perjury. I was more thinking of cases where they claimed they had no 
interest in developing a competing product to get advance information when 
they actually were developing a competing product or cases where they 
threatened a lawsuit that they knew had no merit. (These are, IMO, 
fundamentally equivalent to guns, though perhaps lesser in degree.)

    Morally, lying in court is a tough one. For example, suppose you are in 
a court case with someone who is definitely lying in court. You are in the 
right, but it's clear the court won't believe you in the face of the lying 
and faked evidence. In this case, is lying in court fraud? Or is it 
justified in defense against an attacker willing to use fraud against you? 
So this isn't quite in the same category as force or fraud, because the 
court has the ability to balance credibility and control damage. No such 
balancing is available against a bullet in flight.

    The Federal officials do wield force. The purpose of a trial is 
precisely to determine how force will be used.

> Which is more of the same old song and dance from you: treating MS's
> criminal acts as somehow different from any other criminals acts.

    Yes, different from the ones they are different from and the same as the 
ones they are the same as.

    There is a huge difference between crimes that involve the use of force, 
fraud, the threat of force, and the like and crimes that don't. There is a 
huge difference between crimes that creat real victims and crimes that we 
have to pretend create notional victims.

    DS




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 21 10:18:52 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:18:52 +0100
Subject: win32 process information, using win32 extension
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D227F@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[Java and Swing]

> i need to get information about the processes 
> running on a windows pc (98, 2k, xp)

> i can get the pid's using, win32process.EnumProcesses()
> but how can i get the name of the process, path 
> to process, etc.

You can probably do what you want with WMI. You'll have to
make sure to install Microsoft's WMI pack (or whatever it's
called) on the Win98 machines:

http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi_cookbook.html#running_processes

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 25 03:46:07 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:46:07 GMT
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<0fkrl15cteikfb09ah670kv9bupr902soi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96FA5932B48C9duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Tim Roberts wrote:

>>
>>- Nestable Pascal-like comments (useful): (* ... *)
> 
> That's only meaningful in languages with begin-comment AND end-comment
> delimiters.  Python has only begin-comment.  Effectively, you CAN nest
> comments in Python:

I believe that the OP is mistaken. In standard Pascal comments do not nest, 
and you can mix delimiters so, for example:

    (* this is a comment }

Most Pascal implementations require the delimeters to match and allow you 
to nest comments which use different delimiters, but I'm not aware of any 
Pascal implementations which would allow you to nest comments with the same 
delimiter:

    (* This is not a valid (* comment within a comment. *) *)

To this extent Python (if you consider docstrings as a type of comment) 
does exactly the same thing:

""" this is # a docstring! """

# and this is """ a comment """



From steve at myplace.com  Mon Oct 10 20:30:59 2005
From: steve at myplace.com (Steve M)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:30:59 -0500
Subject: Changing console text color
References: <dieoe2$8o3$1@news.netins.net> <434AF022.5050100@websafe.com>
Message-ID: <dif16o$dph$1@news.netins.net>

Thank you. I appreciate the help.

Steve

Larry Bates wrote:

> You can use this module to control console windows background and
> text colors.
> 
> http://www.effbot.org/zone/console-index.htm
> 
> -Larry Bates
> 
> Steve M wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>>         I've been trying to change the text color on a windows
>>         console
>> program I've been working on with no luck. I should mention that
>> I'm a novice so please dummy up your replies.
>> 
>> Thanks-in-Advance
>> Steve



From dgemic at unknown.ca  Sat Oct 15 10:02:39 2005
From: dgemic at unknown.ca (Drazen Gemic)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:02:39 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dir15c$v9p$1@magcargo.vodatel.hr>

I find this article very much off topic.
Send that to some advocacy group, please.

DG


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Mon Oct  3 15:56:06 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:56:06 -0700
Subject: python getopt functionality
In-Reply-To: <4341842D.4060905@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
References: <4341786B.1030901@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<dhrtkm$536$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<4341842D.4060905@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <20051003195606.GG10940@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 03, M.N.A.Smadi wrote:
> It is not clear to me if i can define `mandatory' options? That sounds
> strange but let say that the command `requires ' a value for -z or
> --zoo (either or should be find but one and only one of them MUST be
> present).  Can i do that with resorting to using if statements?

Optik (optparse) adheres to a "Tao of Option Parsing"
<http://optik.sourceforge.net/doc/1.5/tao.html>, which discusses
required option arguments.

-- 
Micah Elliott


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 12:24:57 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:24:57 +0100
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <11li4h95pnci35b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>	<mailman.2376.1129910536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11li4h95pnci35b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <djb4ok$ev$1@sea.gmane.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-21, Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:
> 
>>On Oct 21, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>>I'm guessing you're using Windows based on the question.
>>
>>+1 QOTW.
> 
> 
> Yow!  That's two in one day, what do I win?
> 
If my experience is anything to go by it just means there won't be a 
weekly URL this week :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 10 15:53:26 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:53:26 -0000
Subject: Library functions
References: <1128973241.967119.199440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11klhlmas9nfm40@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-10, Tuvas <brp13 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I am writing a program that mimics a program written in C, but using
> Python-supiorior techniques. The C program calles a library function,
> non-open source, I only know that it sends it a command
> LINUX_CAN_Open() as for a few others as well.

I've successfully used the ctypes module to call Windows DLLs
(coincidentally it's to send/receive CAN messanges).  According
to the ctypes docs, you can use it to call functions in Linux
libraries as well.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now I can join WEIGHT
                                  at               WATCHERS!
                               visi.com            


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 24 11:04:34 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:04:34 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Ios9u0.7tI@bath.ac.uk>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Ios9u0.7tI@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200510241004.34971.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 22 October 2005 05:44 pm, Tim Tyler wrote:
> Microsoft still comes in at number 2 - on:
> http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Business/Allegedly_Unethical_Firms/
> Few companies are more despised than Microsoft.

Wrong URL?
No such list appears at that site, although it does link to several
different lists and topic-related sites. The two lists I happened
to check are years out of date (one was from 1994!) and do not even
list Microsoft.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From soretha at aol.com  Fri Oct 28 04:39:45 2005
From: soretha at aol.com (yepp)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:39:45 +0200
Subject: creating/altering the OpenOffice spredsheet docs
References: <o4idnTdJk8V02v3eRVn-oQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <in4933-e1p.ln1@newsgate.lan>

Andy Leszczynski <leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam> wrote:

> Any idea how to do that the way ActiveX would be used on M$?
> 

Fortunately, NO.

You know http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html ??

yepp


From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Oct 31 19:58:52 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 01 Nov 2005 00:58:52 +0000
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>
	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2713.1130709910.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3smn47FoolfbU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2737.1130771558.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3snboiFolt77U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <87sluhji9f.fsf@pobox.com>

Paul Watson <pwatson at redlinepy.com> writes:
[...]
> How "ill" will things be when large bodies of code cannot run 
> successfully on a future version of Python or a non-CPython 
> implementation which does not close files.  Might as well put file 
> closing on exit into the specification.
[...]

There are many, many ways of making a large body of code "ill".

Closing off this particular one would make it harder to get benefit of
non-C implementations of Python, so it has been judged "not worth it".
I think I agree with that judgement.


John



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 10:42:19 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:42:19 -0700
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>
	<868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11liivcbmeops4b@corp.supernews.com>
	<opsy44qyjyrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<11lps3jj9a7h62c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1h4zleu.115juj63s01m9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> On 2005-10-24, Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:
> 
> >> The only think you can export an environment variable to is a
> >> child process
> >
> > Well, you know that, and I know that too. From my experience,
> > many people don't...
> 
> True.  Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
> of what's obvious and what isn't.

This specific issue is identical in Windows, isn't it?  I do not know
any OS which does have the concept of "environment variable" yet lets
such variables be ``exported'' to anything but a child process.


Alex


From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 24 06:17:18 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:17:18 -0400
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130127914.446263.222800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130122476.079450.216280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wiqv.m4hrpogqt6tvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130127914.446263.222800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435cb299$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> counting that out(regardless whether it is (dis)advantage or not), what
> else a block can do but not a named function ?

My limited understanding is that the advantage is
- simpler syntax
- high level of integration into the standard library (*many* methods that take closure arguments). Blocks are used not just for iteration but for the kinds of things shown in the examples to PEP 343 http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0343.html

For example to open a file and read from it uses two closures, one to wrap a block with the file open/close, one to iterate lines (from the pickaxe book):

File.open("testfile") do |file|
  file.each_line { |line| puts line }
end

Kent

> 
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>>bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>could someone enlighten me what is the advantage of block over named
>>>function ?
>>>
>>>One thing that I can see a difference may be lexical scope ?
>>
>>"Yes, but" -- according to the latest Ruby book, the "mixed lexical
>>scope" of blocks is a highly controversial notion in the Ruby community;
>>so I wouldn't necessarily count it as an _advantage_ of Ruby blocks...
>>
>>
>>Alex
> 
> 


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 16 13:17:46 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:17:46 +0200
Subject: TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
	instance as first argument (got test instance instead)
References: <1129481319.436107.16950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diu1ul$2ae$00$1@news.t-online.com>

arotem wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to call an unbound method (PrintInput) with the object
> instance as the first argument but getting the following error:
> "TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
> instance as first argument (got test instance instead)"
> 
> Below is the sample code (test) for this purpose (two files).
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in Advance, Anat
> 
> 
> Sample Code:
> 
> File 1 - input_file.py:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> from test import *
> 
> CMD = (test.PrintInput, float(2))
> 
> File 2 - test.py:
> 
> from input_file import *
> 
> class test:
>     def __init__(self):
>         _test = 2
>     def PrintInput(self, input):
>         print "Input is = %s"%(input)
> 
> if __name__== "__main__":
>     print "Unit testing"
>     inst = test()
>     print CMD
>     cmd = CMD[0]
>     param = CMD[1:]
>     
>     cmd(inst,param)        # this is the problematic line

It is best to avoid situations where you import the main script into modules
used by your program. You end up with to copies of (in your example)
test.py. and therefore two functionally identical but distinct test classes
and that gets you the error message. You can verify that with the following
demo:

#file script_is_main.py
import script_is_main
import __main__

print script_is_main is __main__ # False

A sound layout would instead be to move the test class into a separate
module that is used by both the main script and the test module:

# file test.py
class Test:
    def __init__(self):
        _test = 2
    def PrintInput(self, input):
        print "Input is = %s"%(input)

# file input_file.py
import test

CMD = (test.Test.PrintInput, float(2))

# file main.py
#!/usr/bin/env python
import input_file
import test

if __name__== "__main__":
    print "Unit testing"
    inst = test.Test()
    CMD = input_file.CMD
    print CMD
    cmd = CMD[0]
    param = CMD[1:]

    cmd(inst, param) # this was the problematic line

Peter



From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct  5 15:15:52 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:15:52 -0000
Subject: Does python support the expression "a = b | 1"???
References: <di0qq5$21i$2@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <11k89j8q8lcgsa5@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-05, Wenhua Zhao <whzhao at gmail.com> wrote:

> a = b | 1

Yes, Python supports that expression.

> a = b if b != nil
> else a =1

But that's not what it means.

> Is there such expression in python?

>>> b=0
>>> b = 0
>>> a = b | 1
>>> a
1
>>> b = 1
>>> a = b | 1
>>> a
1
>>> b = 2
>>> a = b | 1
>>> a
3
>>> 

I'm not sure what What you mean by "nil", but I would geuess
this is the equivalent Python:

if b is not None:
  a = b
else:
  a = 1

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. Do you like
                                  at               "TENDER VITTLES?"?
                               visi.com            


From jan.niestadt at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 07:40:14 2005
From: jan.niestadt at gmail.com (Jan  Niestadt)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 04:40:14 -0700
Subject: cell and row
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2526.1130232812.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1d987df30510250150mb4f0f97y79d6e93c0c0d66ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<djks42$5fp$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2526.1130232812.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130240414.896875.160600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Because you're inserting items into your existing list instead of a new
list. What you probably mean is:

  b = []
  for x in a:
      b.append(x)

which creates a new list b that contains all elements whose length is
greater than four.
A better way to write this would be:

  b = [x for x in a if len(x) > 4]



From jason at pengale.com  Wed Oct 19 21:48:30 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:48:30 -0500
Subject: Having trouble deleting objects from a list...
In-Reply-To: <1129770984.225558.284260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129770984.225558.284260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <E96ECFEA-0BAC-4844-808E-CB54BA07F3B5@pengale.com>

On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:16 PM, KraftDiner wrote:
> I have a list, and within it, objects are marked for deletion.
> However when I iterate through the list to remove objects
> not all the marked objects are deleted..
> here is a code portion:
>
>             i = 0
>             for obj in self.objList:
>                 if obj.mouseHit:
>                     print 'delete + ' + `i`
>                     self.objList.pop(i)
>                     flag = True
>                 else:
>                     i = i + 1
>                 print `i`

You're mixing two different ways of looping, and they're getting out  
of sync.

'for obj in self.objList' will keep right on iterating through the  
list even if you don't increment i.

A direct adaptation of your code that should work is:

i = 0
while i < len(self.objList):
     if self.objList[i].mouseHit:
         self.objList.pop(i)
         flag = True
     else:
         i += 1

Or, shorter and a bit more Pythonic, but not in-place:

newObjList = [obj for obj in self.objList if not obj.mouseHit]
flag = (len(newObjList) != len(self.objList))
self.objList = newObjList

I don't know how the performance of the two would compare. The second  
involves creating a new list, but Python is supposed to optimize the  
heck out of list comprehension, and removing items from a list in  
place isn't free, either.

Jason



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 21 17:22:00 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:22:00 GMT
Subject: How to add one month to datetime?
References: <mailman.2392.1129928498.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43595b53.606924000@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:01:14 -0700, "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote:

>John W wrote:
>> I have been trying to figure out how to
>> easily add just one month to a datetime
>> object? ...I was wondering if there is
>> simple way of doing this with built in
>> datetime object?
>
>If you want the same day in the succeeding month, you can try:
>
>    newdate =3D datetime.date(olddate.year, olddate.month + 1,
>olddate.day)
>
>...but as you can see, that will run into problems quickly. See the
>"sane_date" function here:
>http://projects.amor.org/misc/browser/recur.py for a more robust
>solution, where:
>
>    newdate =3D recur.sane_date(olddate.year, olddate.month + 1,
>olddate.day)
>
>will roll over any values which are out-of-bounds for their container.
>
>
The OP will still have to decide whether he likes the semantics ;-)
E.g., what does he really want as the date for "one month" after January 30 ?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From vdavidster at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 12:01:50 2005
From: vdavidster at gmail.com (David Veerasingam)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:01:50 -0700
Subject: Some more odd behaviour from the Regexp library
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2298.1129793561.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129777843.892280.302490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86wtk8vofq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<mailman.2298.1129793561.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129824110.760645.172330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for all your replies.

I guess I've always used .*? as sort of an idiom for a non-greedy
match, but I guess it only works if I specify the end point (which I
didn't in the above case).

e.g. re.search(r'exit: (.*?)$', a)

Thanks for pointing that out! 

David



From jmw136 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 21:50:46 2005
From: jmw136 at gmail.com (John W)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:50:46 -0600
Subject: Does Asyncore Send require newline?
Message-ID: <f7d768310510311850u99221c5v633d902e34278399@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have a test environment that consists of a server and an application that
opens an asyncore socket and communicates with it.

In my application, on the handle_write call, if I do not append a "\n" to my
message the server never gets the message. If I do append it, the server can
read the message and act accordingly.

So my call looks like this:
self.send( message] + "\n")

Is this how it was designed? Do you have to send a '\n' to have the data
read? I can't find a whole lot of documentation on the send method.

If you could offer some help, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

John
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 05:05:22 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:05:22 +0100
Subject: dictionary interface
In-Reply-To: <slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <di050a$k16$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-05, Tom Anderson schreef <twic at urchin.earth.li>:
> 
>>On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>  class Tree:
>>>>
>>>>    def __lt__(self, term):
>>>>      return set(self.iteritems()) < set(term.iteritems())
>>>>
>>>>    def __eq__(self, term):
>>>>      return set(self.iteritems()) == set(term.iteritems())
>>>>
>>>>Would this be a correct definition of the desired behaviour?
>>>
>>>No.
>>>
>>>In [1]: {1:2} < {3:4}
>>>Out[1]: True
>>>
>>>In [2]: set({1:2}.iteritems()) < set({3:4}.iteritems())
>>>Out[2]: False
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anyone a reference?
>>>
>>>The function dict_compare in dictobject.c .
>>
>>Well there's a really helpful answer. I'm intrigued, Robert - since you 
>>know the real answer to this question, why did you choose to tell the 
>>Antoon that he was wrong, not tell him in what way he was wrong, certainly 
>>not tell him how to be right, but just tell him to read the source, rather 
>>than simply telling him what you knew? Still, at least you told him which 
>>file to look in. And if he knows python but not C, or gets lost in the 
>>byzantine workings of the interpreter, well, that's his own fault, i 
>>guess.
>>
>>So, Antoon, firstly, your implementation of __eq__ is, i believe, correct.
>>
>>Your implementation of __lt__ is, sadly, not. While sets take "<" to mean 
>>"is a proper subset of", for dicts, it's a more conventional comparison 
>>operation, which constitutes a total ordering over all dicts (so you can 
>>sort with it, for example). However, since dicts don't really have a 
>>natural total ordering, it is ever so slightly arbitrary.
>>
>>The rules for ordering on dicts are, AFAICT:
>>
>>- If one dict has fewer elements than the other, it's the lesser
>>- If not, find the smallest key for which the two dicts have different 
>>values (counting 'not present' as a value)
>>-- If there is no such key, the dicts are equal
>>-- If the key is present in one dict but not the other, the dict in which 
>>it is present is the lesser
>>-- Otherwise, the dict in which the value is lesser is itself the lesser
>>
>>In code:
>>
>>def dict_cmp(a, b):
>> 	diff = cmp(len(a), len(b))
>> 	if (diff != 0):
>> 		return diff
>> 	for key in sorted(set(a.keys() + b.keys())):
>> 		if (key not in a):
>> 			return 1
>> 		if (key not in b):
>> 			return -1
>> 		diff = cmp(a[key], b[key])
>> 		if (diff != 0):
>> 			return diff
>> 	return 0
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks for the explanation, but you somehow give me too much.
> 
> I have been searching some more and finally stumbled on this:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html
> 
>   Mappings (dictionaries) compare equal if and only if their sorted
>   (key, value) lists compare equal. Outcomes other than equality are
>   resolved consistently, but are not otherwise defined.
> 
> This seems to imply that the specific method to sort the dictionaries
> is unimported (as long as it is a total ordering). So I can use whatever
> method I want as long as it is achieves this.
> 
> But that is contradicted by the unittest. If you have a unittest for
> comparing dictionaries, that means comparing dictionaries has a
> testable characteristic and thus is further defined.
> 
> So I don't need a full implementation of dictionary comparison,
> I need to know in how far such a comparison is defined and
> what I can choose.
> 
The dict unit tests are probably trying to ensure that the dictionary 
ordering doesn't change from version to version, which is probably a 
good idea in case someone (foolishly?) deciess to rely on it.

I can't help wondering, though, under what conditions it actually makes 
sense to compare two dictionaries for anything other than equality.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 30 04:13:42 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:13:42 +0100
Subject: How do I sort these?
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43642b1b.1315475223@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <dk1v9u$7in$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:00:42 +0100, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>KraftDiner wrote:
>>> I have two lists.
>>> I want to sort by a value in the first list and have the second list
>>> sorted as well... Any suggestions on how I should/could do this?
>>> 
>> >>> first = [1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 2, 4, 6, 8]
>> >>> second = ['one', 'three', 'five', 'seven', 'nine', 'two', 'four',
>>'six', 'eight']
>> >>> both = zip(first, second)
>> >>> both.sort()
>> >>> [b[0] for b in both]
>>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>> >>> [b[1] for b in both]
>>['one', 'two', 'three', 'four', 'five', 'six', 'seven', 'eight', 'nine']
>> >>>
>>
>>You mean like this?
> ISTM there could be a subtle requirement in the way the OP stated what he
> wanted to do. I.e., it sounds like he would like to sort the first list
> and have a second list undergo the same shuffling as was required to sort
> the first. That's different from having the data of the second participate
> in the sort as order-determining data, if equals in the first list are not
> to be re-ordered:
> 
>  >>> first = [2]*5 + [1]*5
>  >>> first
>  [2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
>  >>> sorted(first)
>  [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]
>  >>> second = [chr(ord('A')+i) for i in xrange(9,-1,-1)]
>  >>> second
>  ['J', 'I', 'H', 'G', 'F', 'E', 'D', 'C', 'B', 'A']
>  >>> sorted(second)
>  ['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'F', 'G', 'H', 'I', 'J']
> 
> Now the zipped sort unzipped:
>  >>> zip(*sorted(zip(first,second)))
>  [(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2), ('A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'F', 'G', 'H',
>  ['I', 'J')]
> 
> Now suppose we sort the first and use the elements' indices to preserve
> order where equal
>  >>> sorted((f,i) for i,f in enumerate(first))
>  [(1, 5), (1, 6), (1, 7), (1, 8), (1, 9), (2, 0), (2, 1), (2, 2), (2, 3),
>  [(2, 4)]
> 
> Separate out the first list elements:
>  >>> [t[0] for t in sorted((f,i) for i,f in enumerate(first))]
>  [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]
> 
> Now select from the second list, by first-element position correspondence:
>  >>> [second[t[1]] for t in sorted((f,i) for i,f in enumerate(first))]
>  ['E', 'D', 'C', 'B', 'A', 'J', 'I', 'H', 'G', 'F']
> 
> Which did the OP really want? ;-)

I don't know, but there certainly is no subtle requirement to not provide
the key argument:

>>> import operator
>>> first = [2]*5 + [1]*5
>>> second = list(reversed("ABCDEFGHIJ"))
>>> [s for f, s in sorted(zip(first, second))]
['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'F', 'G', 'H', 'I', 'J']
>>> [s for f, s in sorted(zip(first, second), key=operator.itemgetter(0))]
['E', 'D', 'C', 'B', 'A', 'J', 'I', 'H', 'G', 'F']

Peter



From christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk  Wed Oct 26 12:57:53 2005
From: christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (c d saunter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:57:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using Python to add thumbnails to Explorer
Message-ID: <djocih$msn$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>

Greetings All,
	In Widows Explorer there is a thumbnail view, where you see images as thumbnails.  
Applications such as MS Office and OpenOffice, when installed, cause their respective filetypes 
to be previewed as thumbnails as well. 

Thumbnails are stored in the Thumbs.db hidden file.

There my knowledge ends.  I'm asuming that aplications install registry keys somewhere that 
register an invocation that returns a thumbnail for a given file bit this is just a guess.

What I'd like to do is write some Python script that can be invoked to add thumbnails for 
certian file types (my own custom types and things like the .FITS array format.)

Googling isn't going anywhere so I am hoping there are some wizards out there with poiters...

Specifically any information on how the thumbnail system works would be great!

Cheers,
	Chris


From entropy at domain.invalid  Mon Oct 24 21:20:14 2005
From: entropy at domain.invalid (entropy)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:20:14 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djglnk$jq8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5y47f.174197$RW.59989@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<djjekc$k1f$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc75256953065c898a5c5@news.verizon.net>

davids at webmaster.com wrote...
 
> > Also may I remind you that these newsgroups are international.
> 
>     So what? We are talking about a United States' company's actions with 
> respect to United States laws. There is no reason to make this about 
> philosophy, politics, law, international relations or any such things. If we 
> did that, we would wind up on tangents (just like this one!) that have 
> nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft.
> 
>     Yes, in a discussion about Microsoft, I will make economic or political 
> statements that aren't 100% valid in every possible imaginable case. But 
> guess what? They'll be 100% valid for the case we're discussing.
> 
>     And you can watch all the replies about how my statement isn't true in 
> every possible case. Well, guess what? I only care about one case.

But I was told recently that the broader discussion is exactly was 
Usenet if for.  ;)



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 20:48:59 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:48:59 -0700
Subject: output
Message-ID: <1d987df30510141748v37058d0frab30f0235e0eb9f3@mail.gmail.com>

After I run the following python code, I expect to have the printing such as:
The year is 2005

However, I got something like:
The year is 2005
Fri Oct 14 17:43:31 2005
Fri Oct 14 17:43:31 2005
The year is 2005

What is the reason?

The code follows:

import time
import now

class today(now.now):
    def __init__(self, y = 1970):
	now.now.__init__(self)
    def update(self,tt):
	if len(tt) < 9 :
	    raise TypeError
	if tt[0] < 1970 or tt[0] > 2038:
	    raise OverflowError
	self.t = time.mktime(tt)
	self(self.t)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    n = today()
    print "The year is", n.year


From rupole at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  9 23:08:45 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:08:45 -0400
Subject: Creating internet shortcuts
References: <1p9jp8i0al14h$.1xmuz4fyfs4m5.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <1128913971_130673@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

Pythoncom doesn't directly support the necessary interfaces,
but you can use the Shell COM interfaces to create them.

import win32com.client
wsh=win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch('wscript.shell')
s=wsh.CreateShortcut('c:\\python.url')
s.TargetPath='www.python.org'
s.Save()

  hth
      Roger

"Richard Townsend" wrote:
> I've seen the python.faqts page:
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4475/fid/538 on how to
> create windows shortcuts using Python.
>
> Does anyone know if this be adapted to create internet shortcuts on
> windows? (as used for Favorites).
>
> Thank you,
>
> -- 
> Richard 




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 20:31:17 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:31:17 GMT
Subject: win32api.FindFiles Win2003, problem with Short Name
In-Reply-To: <1129245942.185252.171220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129245942.185252.171220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <p%C3f.17259$U51.14445@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Frank Borell:

> I'm having a problem retrieving the ShortName from a file that was
> written by a MAC and only from a Windows 2003 server.
> 
> I realize the file has a space after it, but I can retrieve the short
> name from Windows XP and 2000;

    Does your Windows 2003 machine have short file name support turned 
off? The NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation registry option is popular with 
some administrators.

    Neil


From magneticlemur at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 20:10:24 2005
From: magneticlemur at gmail.com (magneticlemur at gmail.com)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 17:10:24 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
Message-ID: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Does anyone know of an available downloader for an amd64 bit
build of (a modern) python?
I've done my due diligence search of python docs and
mailing archives,
and I'm somewhat mystified by the lack of info
on this topic.
I'm embedding python in a native 64 bit
application so python32 using WOW64
is not an option for me.

Alternatively, does anyone have experience
of using the visual studio files in the PCBuild
directory under amd64?

Any pointers appreciated,

Cheers
Mike

-------------------------------
Dr Mike Steel
Senior Scientist
RSoft Design Group
www.rsoftdesign.com



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 20 06:13:15 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 10:13:15 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96F5560E865D8duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndlen60.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dj7nso$8oi$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <slrndlerdr.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-20, Mikael Olofsson schreef <mikael at isy.liu.se>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-20, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
>> 
>>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
>>>>indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
>>>>equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.
>>>
>>>If that is the case then you implement __eq__ and __ne__ to return 
>>>True/False and make cmp throw an exception. I don't see any need to extend 
>>>the cmp protocol.
>> 
>> 
>> That is not sufficient. There are domains where an order exists, but not
>> a total order. So for some couples of elements it is possible to say
>> one is less than the other, but not for all such couples.
>> 
>> Your solution wouldn't allow for such a case.
>
> Wouldn't the full power of rich comparisons be enough? See section 3.3.1 
> in Python Reference Manual:
>
>      http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/ref/customization.html
>
> See methods __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__, __ge__.

Sure, but it would also be rather cumbersome. It is not uncommon
that a general compare function which could give you one of
four results: one_less_two, one_equal_two, one_greater_two or
one_unequal_two, wouldn't differ much from each of those six
comparison methods. So you either write about six times the
same code or you have to do something like the following:

  class partial_order:

    def __compare(self, other):
      ...
      return ...

    def __lt__(self, other):
      return self.__compare(other) == one_less_two

    def __le__(self, other):
      return self.__compare(other) in [one_less_two, one_equal_two]

    def __eq__(self, other):
      return self.__compare(other) == one_equal_two

    def __ne__(self, other):
      return self.__compare(other) == one_unequal_two

    def __gt__(self, other):
      return self.__compare(other) == one_greater_two

    def __ge__(self, other):
      return self.__compare(other) in [one_greater_two, one_equale_two]


And then you still wouldn't get a usefull result from:

  delta = cmp(e1, e2)

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 08:39:23 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:39:23 +0100
Subject: PDO and database abstraction
In-Reply-To: <435E2313.3090504@ghaering.de>
References: <1130240852.794081.158320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435E2313.3090504@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <djl91r$e8o$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Luiz Geron wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>I'm testing the PDO wrapper to database modules [1] and I'm wondering
>>how few things like this there are around. 
> 
> 
> Actually there are several Object-Relation Mappers (ORM) for Python, and 
> also a few other attempts to provide a more convenient layer on top of 
> DB-API modules.
> 
> This wiki page has links: 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/HigherLevelDatabaseProgramming
> 
> 
>>My problem, actually, is the paramstyle of modules.
> 
> 
> That problem exactly what these solutions try to solve, this and 
> multiple SQL dialects and handling types like date etc. for multiple 
> backends.
> 
> 
>>I want to use kinterbasdb in the same code I use
>>cx_oracle, for example, but paramstyle changes from one to other, than
>>I searched for things like this and found nothing really usefull. The
>>problem with PDO is that it was so dificult to find, since a few people
>>seems to use it,  and I haven't yet figured how to change the paramstyle
>>on it, so I want to ask: Do you use a thing like this that you would
>>recommend to me?
> 
> 
> I always wrote my own thin layer on top of DB-API modules and used it to 
> implement a *specific* database interface for my applications. This 
> would then have one or more database backends. Actually never more than 
> two so far.
> 
[ORM stuff ...]

Another way is to actually parameterise your queries for the paramstyle 
according to which packend module you are using. For example, in a 
current development I have queries that are generated like this:

         sql = ("SELECT %s FROM %s WHERE %s=%s" %
                (",".join(f[1] for f in self.FIELDS),
                          table, keyfield, db.pmark))

The "db" module imports one or other of a number of back-end modules, 
and sets "pmark" to the appropriate parameter marker ("%s" or "?" are 
the ones I have used: positionals would be a little trickier, now I 
think of it).

Of course you still have to be careful of SQL syntax variations and 
other backend differences (the usual one being "find the primary key 
value of the last-inserted row on this connection/cursor").

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:42:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:42:31 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
	<pjhhk1p0lqtduekojm7er9i6g84fjef12n@4ax.com>
	<86zmpjkml4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <v34rk19j2ofq2bavd882m01eiu26s52pj3@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:32:07 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Formatted spam can include pictures of words. That's a common spam
>tactic - send a multipart/alternative with a text part that look like
>a letter from aunt jane - and mention that you're sending a
>picture. The picture part is basically a jpeg of a flyer for the spam
>companies product.

Such a jpg would have a lot more sharp edges than a usual photo. Also
you tend to have areas of just two colours. Some edge detecting
software might have a go at it.

However, my rule of thumb is I would not accept photos from the
general public, only from a subset of my correspondendents.  That
makes a photo a strong spam indicator. Then there are small corporate
logos, which are innocuous.  Spamnix does not have such a filtering
rule.



-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From vdavidster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 23:10:43 2005
From: vdavidster at gmail.com (David Veerasingam)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:10:43 -0700
Subject: Some more odd behaviour from the Regexp library
Message-ID: <1129777843.892280.302490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Can anyone explain why it won't give me my captured group?

In [1]: a = 'exit: gkdfjgfjdfsgdjglkghdfgkd'
In [2]: import re
In [3]: b = re.search(r'exit: (.*?)', a)
In [4]: b.group(0)
Out[4]: 'exit: '

In [5]: b.group(1)
Out[5]: ''

In [6]: b.group(2)
IndexError: no such group



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 08:23:00 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 05:23:00 -0700
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4361e8f5$0$32420$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4361e8f5$0$32420$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1130502180.688390.207960@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> I think it would be time for you to read the Fine Manual...

hi, thanks for your answer... I really did it the same way you
suggested, but I forgot to tell you that I wanted to get a better way
for doing it.

By the way, knowing your wisdom, what do I have to install to get the
following code work (Win XP, Python 2.4.2)

---------------------------------------------
from OpenSSL import SSL
import config

KEY_FILE = config.SSL_KEY_FILE
CERT_FILE = config.SSL_CERT_FILE

--------------------------------------------
I've been looking for OpenSSL for python. I found pyOpenSSL, but it
requires the OpenSSL library, which I only found on
http://www.openssl.org/, but don't know how to install.

Other thing is the "config" module... I'm lost. Someone knows? :-S

My main purpose is to enable XML-RPC SERVER over an SSL connection.

Thanks



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 20:36:18 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:36:18 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Rgg5f.26668$Z96.897128@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <dj44e2$m66$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Aragorn" <stryder at telenet.invalid> wrote in message 
news:Rgg5f.26668$Z96.897128 at phobos.telenet-ops.be...

>>>>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.

>>>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.

> A psychopath is someone who lacks ethics and/or the ability to respect
> his fellow human being.  They are quite often narcissistic and perverse
> individuals.  They make good dictators and successful businessmen.

    You have provided an excellent refutation. A psychopath would say that 
Microsoft's executives only obligations are to themselves. A psychopath 
would not consider obligations to fellow human beings important. Believe it 
or not, from the point of view of a Microsoft executive, shareholders are 
fellow human beings.

    DS




From wobsta at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 06:51:36 2005
From: wobsta at gmail.com (wobsta)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 03:51:36 -0700
Subject: python plotting with greek symbols within labels recommendations?
References: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128509496.658612.279390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

michael.s.gilbert at gmail.com wrote:
> this message is geared toward those of you in the scientific community.
> i'm looking for a python plotting library that can support rendering
> greek symbols and other various characters on plot axes labels, etc. I
> would prefer something that adheres to tex formatting (as implemented
> in latex, matlab, etc and has the form $\alpha$ to represent the greek
> character alpha for example).

You may want to have a look at PyX (pyx.sourceforge.net), which
features a seamless TeX integration for all typesetting tasks and thus
allows you to use TeX syntax all over the place.

Andr?



From james at colannino.org  Mon Oct 24 00:42:42 2005
From: james at colannino.org (James Colannino)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:42:42 -0700
Subject: output from external commands
Message-ID: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>

Hey everyone.  First off, I'm new to the list.  I had had a little bit 
of experience with Perl before discovering Python.  The more Python I 
learn, the more I love it :)  I just have a quick question to ask.  I 
know that this is probably a simple question, but I've been googling 
around, and partly because I'm not sure exactly what to search for, I've 
been unsuccessful at finding an answer.  What I'd like to do is be able 
to take the output of an external command and assign it as an array of 
strings.  So, for example, in Perl I could do something like:

@files = `ls`;

So I guess I'm looking for something similiar to the backticks in Perl.  
Forgive me if I've asked something that's a bit basic for this list.  
Any help would be greatly appreciated :)  Thanks very much in advance.

James

-- 
My blog: http://www.crazydrclaw.com/
My homepage: http://james.colannino.org/




From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 20 11:09:36 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:09:36 +0200
Subject: __getattr__, __setattr__
Message-ID: <k6g88btb.fsf@python.net>

Just wondering about this behaviour, why is it this way?

Python 2.4.2 (#67, Sep 28 2005, 12:41:11) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> object.__setattr__
<slot wrapper '__setattr__' of 'object' objects>
>>> object.__getattr__
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: type object 'object' has no attribute '__getattr__'
>>>


Thanks,

Thomas


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 15:04:16 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:04:16 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, nephish at xit.net <nephish at xit.net> wrote:

> the time is DateTime.DateTime object from a mySQLdb query. the
> value is a number anywhere between 0 and 15. the datetime is
> formatted like 2005-10-20 08:40:34
>
> i could strip it and make a timestamp out of it. but reading
> the number of seconds since january of 1970 doesn't make a
> neat chart.

Pass the data values as floating point numbers (I typically use
seconds since the test run started).  If you the x tics to be
something else, then change them.  It's pretty simple to label
the x-axis using normal date/time notation.

> any suggestions?
>
> oh, and can you output from Gnuplot to a png or jpeg or
> something like that.

Is that a question? If so, the answer is yes.

> the Gnuplot documentation says that it can make a bitmap png
> but i dont know how to do that with the python wrapper. the
> docs for this are a little cryptic. still a newbie here. if
> you know a good tutorial on this, i would really appreciate
> the link.

Once you start doing "odd" stuff (e.g. custom labels for the x-axis,
output other than X11 or postscript), it's usually simplest to
just send normal gnuplot commands.

------------------------------8<------------------------------
import Gnuplot,time,sys,math

def pause():
    sys.stdout.write("Press enter to continue: ")
    sys.stdin.readline()

def fgrid(start,stop,count):
    for i in xrange(count):
        yield start + ((stop-start)*i)/count

start = time.time()

xdata = [x for x in fgrid(0,600.0,10)]      # two minutes worth
ydata = [math.sin(x/100.0) for x in xdata]

data = Gnuplot.Data(xdata,ydata,with='linespoints')

gp = Gnuplot.Gnuplot()
gp.title('Data starting at %s' % time.ctime(start+xdata[0]))

# x axis will use default tics (seconds since start of run)
gp.plot(data)
pause()

# now let's change x tics to time of day in HH:MM:SS with
# ticmarks at 120 second intervals

ti = 120.0
startTic = int((start+xdata[0])//ti * ti)
endTic = int((start+xdata[-1])//ti * ti)
ti = int(ti)

ticx = range(startTic,endTic+ti,ti)
tics = [(x, time.strftime('%H:%M:%S',time.localtime(x))) for x in ticx]
ticstrings = ['"%s" %f' % (t[1],t[0]-start) for t in tics]

gp('set xtics (%s)' % ','.join(ticstrings))
gp.plot(data)
pause()

outfile = 'foo.png'
gp('set term png')
gp('set out "%s"' % outfile)
gp.plot(data)
------------------------------8<------------------------------

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... The waitress's
                                  at               UNIFORM sheds TARTAR SAUCE
                               visi.com            like an 8" by 10" GLOSSY...


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 13 01:59:46 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:59:46 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
	<86r7aqugmk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <iitrk1dmcr1eoiei7tuqrels1c86du7dn5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:32:03 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>That won't prevent phishing, that will just raise the threshhold a
>little. The first hurdle you have to get past is that most mail agents
>want to show a human name, not some random collection of symbols that
>map to a unique address. Even if you do that, most readers aren't
>going to pay attention to said random collection of symbols. Given
>that, there are *lots* of tricks that can be used to disguise the
>signed name, most of which phishers are already using. How many people
>do you think will really notice that mail from "John Bath, PayPal
>Customer Service Representative" (john.barth at paypa1.com) isn't really
>from paypal?

I think it better than you imagine.  

First of all Mr. Phish will come in as a new communicant begging an
audience. That is your first big clue. PayPal is already allowed in.
Next if Thawte issues certs, they won't allow Phish names such as
Paypol.com just as now for other certs.

Mr. Phish is coming in on a different account. 

Next Mr. Phish had to present his passport etc when he got his Thawte
ID.  Now Interpol has a much better handle on putting him in jail.
He can't repudiate his phishing attempt.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 16:06:00 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 13:06:00 -0700
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
Message-ID: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a C function which takes an array of long values..

I understand that I can pass a tuple to a C wrapper function and in the
C wrapper function have..

int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s(ll)", &a, &b, &c);

..that's great if my tuple only contained two longs..but what if it
contained 50
would I have to do..

int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s(llllllllllllllllll....ll)", &a, &b,
&c, &d...) ??

how can I handle this?



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 27 01:18:59 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:18:59 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7rZ7f.6819$dO2.5775@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>


"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote in message 
news:djpf90$pbm$1 at nntp.webmaster.com...
>
>    There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one 
> preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to other 
> with minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do compete 
> with Windows PCs.

There's a huge difference to the non-techy consumer.  One of the buggest 
reasons Linux has had a reputation of being harder to use than Windows was 
the fact that Linux had to be installed, while Windows just booted up. 




From http  Wed Oct  5 08:31:28 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 05:31:28 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1517.1128511675.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xek70xhzz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> Aren't you looking for some of compile-time checking that ensures that
> only declared variables are actually used? If so, how does global help?

You'd have to declare any variable global, or declare it local, or it
could be a function name (defined with def) or a function arg (in the
function scope), or maybe you could also declare things like loop
indices.  If it wasn't one of the above, the compiler would flag it.

> >>Your making this feature "optional" contradicts the subject of this
> >> thread i.e. declarations being necessary.
> > They're necessary if you enable the option.
> 
> OK. Would it work on a per-module basis or globally?

Whatever perl does.  I think that means per-module where the option is
given as "use strict" inside the module.

> > def do_add(x->str, y->str):
> >       return '%s://%s' % (x, y)
> > def do_something(node->Node):
> >       if node.namespace == XML_NAMESPACE:
> >           return do_add('http://', node.namespace)
> >       elif node.namespace == ...
> 
> Wouldn't an error be generated because XML_NAMESPACE is not declared?

XML_NAMESPACE would be declared in the xml.dom module and the type
info would carry over through the import.

> And I notice that you are not doing any checking that "namespace" is a
> valid attribute of the node object. Aren't the typos class of error
> that you are looking to catch just as likely to occur for attributes
> as variables?

The node object is declared to be a Node instance and if the Node
class definition declares a fixed list of slots, then the compiler
would know the slot names and check them.  If the Node class doesn't
declare fixed slots, then they're dynamic and are looked up at runtime
in the usual way.


From dellaq at ml1.net  Fri Oct 21 21:26:00 2005
From: dellaq at ml1.net (dellaq at ml1.net)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 18:26:00 -0700
Subject: How to add one month to datetime?
References: <mailman.2392.1129928498.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43595b53.606924000@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1129944360.034151.228030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> The OP will still have to decide whether he likes the semantics ;-)
> E.g., what does he really want as the date for "one month" after January 30 ?
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

When dealing with bonds a common convention is to return the same day
in the succeeding month if it is valid otherwise return the last day of
that month. However, if the original date is the last day of the month,
then the last day of the succeeding month should always be returned.

This snippet adds an arbitrary number of months (positive or negative)
according to that convention.

OneDay = datetime.timedelta(days=1)

def addMonth(date, n=1):
    # add n+1 months to date then subtract 1 day
    # to get eom, last day of target month
    q,r = divmod(date.month+n, 12)
    eom = datetime.date(date.year+q, r+1, 1) - OneDay
    if date.month != (date+OneDay).month or date.day >= eom.day:
        return eom
    return eom.replace(day=date.day)

Regards,
John Dell'Aquila



From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 18 18:37:48 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:37:48 -0400
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051018223748.27584.778467958.divmod.quotient.775@ohm>

On 18 Oct 2005 14:56:32 -0700, Xah Lee <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:
>is there a way to condense the following loop into one line?

There is.

exec('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'.decode('hex'))

Jp


From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 08:46:45 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 05:46:45 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


David Schwartz wrote:
> Roedy Green wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:31:41 GMT, Roedy Green
> > <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote, quoted or
> > indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
> >> I used to be a retailer of custom computers.  MS used a dirty trick
> >> to compete with IBM's OS/2.  They said to me as a retailer. You must
> >> buy a copy of our OS for EVERY machine you sell.  The alternative is
> >> to pay full retail for the OSes.
>
> > Through intimidation, MS managed to control the entire retail computer
> > market  in Vancouver BC to the extent you could not buy even the most
> > stripped down computer  without having to buy a copy of Windows with
> > it, whether you wanted it or not.
> >
> > You might not want it because you bought OS/2.
> >
> > You might not want it because you already owned Windows from your
> > older machine you were upgrading.
> >
> > You might not want it because somebody stole your machine and they did
> > not steal all your software masters.
>
>     Tell me, can you buy a new car without seats? Guess what, you have to
> buy those seats whether you want them or not.
>
>     Try to start a business selling competing seats for a new car. Your
> seats may be cheaper, better, but how can you possibly compete when people
> have to pay for factory car seats whether they want them or not?
>
>     The real reason PCs were not available without Windows was because not
> enough people wanted them that way to justify setting up a business to
> provide them that way, and Microsoft was not going to let a business
> parasitically use Windows to build a business that touted the advantages of
> competing products. (Just as Burger King corporate will not you sell Big
> Macs in the same store in which you sell Whoppers.)
>
>     DS

Don't you see how your metaphor doesn't work?  It would only be fitting
if Microsoft OWNED the outlet.  Places which sell Whoppers are Burger
King franchises, so of course they aren't going to sell Big Mac's.  PC
hardware stores do not belong to microsoft.  There just isn't any
correlation.

Iain



From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Mon Oct 17 06:01:14 2005
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:01:14 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndkv547.brdr.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <mn.8ad17d5ae1333718.30301@gmx.de>

> With OS X compatibility you tend to come across with the
> fact that many "OS X compatible" things are actually X11
> things. X11 certainly looks different from Aqua (the native
> interface). 

But imho, Gnome _does_ "look and feel" quite Mac-ish in the sense that 
its ergonomics has certain things in common with the Mac, even more 
with the old MacOS classic than with the pretty "gadget-ish" Aqua 
interface.

For example, with its hierarchical multi-column listview, Nautilus 
"looks" and "feels" perfectly like the old MacOS classic Finder, 
something that lots of long-time Mac users miss a lot on MacOS X.

Another example is MDI (or "windows inside windows"), which is a no-no 
on the Mac (and afaik not supported by GTK), or multi-pains (sic!). As 
a long-time Mac user (since system 6.0.x), I did like a lot the GUI of 
WingIDE (which uses GTK) because it allows me to switch from a 
multi-pain layout to a multi-window layout.

> GTK is an example of this. There is an Aqua version of
> GTK, but it seems to be rather outdated.

There's a new effort for a "aqua-native" implementation:

http://micke.hallendal.net/archives/2005/10/gtk-macosx.html

> The newer versions
> run on X11 but installing them may be just laborious or
> then plain pain depending on your luck. And you still need
> the X11 installed.

One advantage of an X11 application is, obviously, the possibility to 
use it from a different computer without the requirement to install it 
there.

"Hey, my Mac can do that for free, while your Windows needs an 
expensive "Server" license.!" >;-> Shhh, don't tell them about 
Cygwin...

> So, if you are looking for something that looks like Mac
> and works like Mac, do not touch anything with X11. 

As a long-time Mac user, I somewhat disagree, see above. :-)

To me, a GTK application with a really well-thought ergonomic user 
interface is a lot more Mac-ish than a pile of "aqua-native" visual 
gadgetry.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang Keller




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Oct 17 12:40:21 2005
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:40:21 -0400
Subject: graphic memory & animation
In-Reply-To: <009d01c5d2f0$3c634590$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>
References: <009d01c5d2f0$3c634590$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>
Message-ID: <4353D3F5.8040509@rogers.com>

Peres wrote:

> Thanks a lot for your answer, Fredrik,
> Slow means more than 20ms to erase the screen. After double buffering 
> it improved a lot , of course (16 ms) but I'll need a faster speed.
> I program 2D animated sequences on a PC. Do you think OpenGL is the 
> correct direction to take? If so is it easy to interface with Python 
> (it seems PyOpenGL is not freeware...)

PyOpenGL has a BSD-style license, that's about as 'free' as one can get 
in the freeware sense.

Just a note,
Mike

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Thu Oct 13 11:14:29 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:14:29 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de> <7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
    (about tag bits)
 >>... Basically I think that trying to come up with all sorts of
 >> optimizations for rather marginal problems (number crunching
 >> should be - if a python domain at all - done using Numarray)
> I don't think it's necessarily marginal.  Tagged ints can be kept in
> registers, which means that even the simplest code that does stuff
> with small integers becomes a lot more streamlined, easing the load on
> both the Python GC and the cpu's memory cache....
But the cost on modern computers is more problematic to characterize.
Current speeds are due to deep pipelines, and a conditional in the
INCREF code would blow a pipeline.  On machines with a conditional
increment instruction (and a C (or whatever) compiler clever enough to
use it, saving the write saves dirty cache in the CPU, but most of
today's CPU/compiler combos will flush the pipeline, killing a number
of pending instructions.

> Right now with the bytecode interpreter, it probably doesn't matter,
> but with Pypy generating native machine code, this kind of thing can
> make a real difference.
You are right that Pypy is the place to experiment with all of this.
That project holds a lot of promise for answering questions that seem
to otherwise degenerate into "Jane, you ignorant slut" (for non-US
readers, this is a reference to an old "Saturday Night Live" debate
skit where the debate always degenerated into name-calling).

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From rune.strand at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 05:15:43 2005
From: rune.strand at gmail.com (Rune Strand)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 02:15:43 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <3r3u8kFhhsqmU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r3u8kFhhsqmU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129108543.596435.200600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Excuse me, do you suffer from a bad hair-day? I didn't say it is
platform independant. It's ok for my use on Linux and Windows. If you
cannot imagine any other usecase for a __filename__ attribute, that's
your problem, not mine.



From pkilambi at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 13:31:20 2005
From: pkilambi at gmail.com (pkilambi at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 10:31:20 -0700
Subject: Searching files in directories
Message-ID: <1129311080.579292.112990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

can anyone help me with this...

I want to search for a list for files in a given directory and if it
exists copy them to destination directory

so what i am looking for is :

file = 'file1.txt'
source_directory      = '/tmp/source/'
destination_directory = '/tmp/destination/'

so If the file exists in source_directory cp that file to the
destination_directory..

hope I am clear



From cowie.rob at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 12:17:52 2005
From: cowie.rob at gmail.com (Rob Cowie)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 09:17:52 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
Message-ID: <1128356272.091514.63180@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Perhaps with the time saved by using Python instead of C# or some such,
you could help to improve adodbapi.py, ensuring support for the next
version of MS SQLServer, although that might be of little help in the
short term. Just a thought.

Also, have a gander at http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/mssql/
I have no knowledge of it, but it may prove useful to you.



From malte.clasen at arcor.de  Sat Oct 15 06:42:57 2005
From: malte.clasen at arcor.de (Malte Clasen)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:42:57 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser as a
> GUI?

Nothing, but session management isn't trivial with http interfaces. You 
have to deal with the back button of the browsers, bookmarks to pages 
that result from posted forms, users leaving the application without 
notice, etc.. And if you want to implement dialogs like the Photoshop 
image resizing with automatic calculation of some widget data based on 
other widgets (e.g. interlocked width and height), you have to rely on 
JavaScript which isn't as platform independent as it should be and 
sometimes deactivated due to security issues.

But if that doesn't bother you, you might want to have a look at 
http://qooxdoo.sourceforge.net/ , "an advanced open-source javascript 
based toolkit."

     Malte


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 19:49:16 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:49:16 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<KFc6f.5081$q%.3357@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86vezqscfq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <08f6f.6361$7h7.3176@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> 
> I don't know much about plugins.  I believe they get started when the
> page loads, which gives you a chance to do the authentication when you
> want it done.

Well not in this case actually: the user triggers the plugin which in turn
open the url, so the connection is "owned" by the plugin

> 
> That won't work very well. HTML goes to the client to display. The
> server can put data in hidden form elements that code running on the
> client side can get to - and change - via the document object model
> (DOM). However, the only way to send the changed data back to the
> server is to get the client to submit the form. You can automate that,
> but the results will be disconcerting to the user: they load a page,
> and it reloads multiple times as the plugin exchanges data with the
> server.
> 
Here again, I'm not dying for any page data to be visible: cannot the cgi
script and the plugin do their business before that ?

> 
> The problem with this is that the apache<->browser connection isn't
> "a" connection, it's a series of HTTP request/repsonse
> pairs. Originally, this implied tearing down and setting up a TCP
> connection for every request. Modern software will leave the link open
> and reuse it - but modern software also tends to have multiple
> connetions open, so it can fetch images and other embedded objects in
> parallel.
> 
I'm lost here, better do some more reading


> You can make this work, but doing it like that requires making
> multiple HTTP requests via the browser, which will be
> disconcerting. I'd recommend taking the browser out of the loop. Have
> the plugin talk directly to the server to do the
> authentication. That's what the latest web buzzword (AJAX) does:
> client-side software makes independent requests of the server (or
> *any* server) to get data, and possibly updates the document the
> browser is viewing as a result of that.
> 
Here I think it's OK as the plugin can "talk" to server prior to the browser
showing anything.


> So here's a scenario: the first cgi script gets info from the smart
> card that puts it in a hidden form element and sends the page to the
> browser. The plugin - started when the page loads - uses the DOM to
> get that data, then makes an *independent* HTTP request to the server,
> thus passing whatever it generated from the data in the form field to
> a second cgi script. This happens several times, then the plugin
> changes the HTML form to put whatever the cgi script generated into
> the form, so that when the user finally submits the form, the third
> cgi script - the one that handles the submitted form - sees the data
> from the second script.
> 
> Actually, the exchanges between the plugin and the server don't need
> to be HTTP requests. If you've got this working over some other TCP
> protocol, there's no reason you can't keep doing it that way.
> 
Maybe that's my clue: can a cgi script, once triggered by a (let's say) POST
request, use back and forth file transfer with the client ? through the
_existing_ connection.


> A word of warning: authentication protocols are fragile; they tend to
> stop being resistant to attacks after even relatively minor changes,
> so you want to be very carefull about changing the protocol. Web-based
> things are very open. You can't really do much to prevent the client
> end from doing *whatever they want* with the HTML you send them, or
> you generate for them on the fly. This also has serious security
> implications. Think carefully about what happens when the user pulls
> one of your forms out of the browser history, or bookmarks a
> page. Then make sure you get a thorough audit of the resulting
> system/protocol done by people who know what they're doing.
> 
Even if the data when seen, there would not be any security breach as the
cards have the keys + algo to understand the data. I realy just need of few
tens of bytes to go back and forth (I'm frustrated ;-)




Thanks

Philippe


>           <mike



From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Tue Oct 25 10:37:32 2005
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:37:32 +0200
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>


<nephish at xit.net> wrote in message
news:1129823043.104864.73750 at f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

If the x-axis is time, gnuplot will plot it correctly but it will connect
*all* the datapoints and scale the x-axis so that everything will fit on the
graph. Is it the autoscaling or conneting that what you think is wrong?

Getting a fixed-size x-axis is a configuration option. I think one simply
passes a range to the axis one wants to scale. I cannot remember exactly,
how though.

> one of you guys know a charting app that will do this ? or is there
> some other way i could do it?

RRDTool is excellent at storing & plotting time series data. It will not
"connect" missing data points but has the limitation that the sample rate
must be known when creating the database and generally adhered to. Missed
samples are NAN's.

You have to "tell" gnuplot what to plot and what not to plot. I think you
can add more than one data series to the same plot, providing the "gap"
where data is unavaliable. Else you have to "pad" it with zeros or some
other appropriate null value.




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct 20 20:48:37 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:48:37 -0500
Subject: os.makedirs should not succeed when the directory already exists (was
	Re: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs)
In-Reply-To: <1129739176.881283.8910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129739176.881283.8910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051021004836.GB16725@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 09:26:16AM -0700, Dr. Who wrote:
> The fact that the directory already exists is irrelevant to the function...it
> still failed to create the directory.

That's not true.  Imagine that os.makedirs() is used inside tempfile.mkdtemp()
(I looked, and it isn't) and the proposed behavior (do not raise an exception
when the directory already exists) is adopted.

In this case, there is a race condition between you and the attacker who
guesses the next directory you will attempt to make.  If he calls mkdir()
before you do, then your os.makedirs() returns successfully (instead of raising
an exception) and you place your files into a location that is under the
control of someone else.

If the attacker then makes the directory setuid himself, that files created in
the directory are owned by him.  Now, he can view and change the contents of
these files.  This can lead to a local priviledge escalation.

	Errors should never pass silently.
	Unless explicitly silenced.
		-- from the Zen of Python ('import this')
... and wanting them to do so may introduce a security bug in your software.

If you know more about your users and their environments than I do (for
instance, that none of them will ever use a multi-user computer system) maybe
you should choose to wrap os.makedirs with something that silences EEXIST.
But I'm glad Python does the secure thing and treats EEXIST as a failure by default.

Jeff
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From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Wed Oct 26 20:28:46 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:28:46 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uij533-fbp.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
> 3. Maytag makes the machines.  In the computer instance, we at CMP
> custom build the computers. Microsoft have no business telling me what
> to do when they supplied only one component. I could not even sell a
> BARE computer. 

I'm a bit curious about this. If I were a business person, I would
simply have created two busineses (two accounts, etc.). One business
sells only machines with MS on and pays the MS tax on all its machines.
One business sells only machines without MS on and pays the MS tax on
none of its machines.

What's up with that?

Peter


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Tue Oct 11 10:54:19 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:54:19 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <kp6dnY3KcbyZAtbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>	<mailman.1880.1129014577.509.python-list@python.org>
	<kp6dnY3KcbyZAtbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <434BD21B.3000407@designaproduct.biz>


>If you're saying that people have no choice but to trust that their 
>passwords, stored in the clear on the server of some idiot who didn't 
>know better, are safe from casual administrator observation and safe 
>from hackers stealing the password file, then you shouldn't be allowed 
>anywhere near a supposedly secure system...
>  
>
Of course I would not say this. :-)

>If you're just saying that one has to trust that the server you are 
>talking to at this instant in time is really the one you thought it was, 
>then that's an entirely different issue and I agree.
>  
>
Not just this.
"one has to trust that the server you are talking to at this instant in 
time is really the one you thought it was" - this is just authentication.
I'm saying that even if the authentication is secure and the server is 
really the one that you wanted to talk with, the server can still be 
vulnerable to other kinds of attacks. Since users are storing data on 
the server, they need to trust in its security. Storing the clear 
passwords is not a good idea, I agree. But having a secure 
authentication method and not storing clear passwords doesn't 
automatically mean that the server is secured. :-)

I'm sorry, I was not clear. I think we were talking about the same thing.

   Les




From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 15 18:30:41 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:30:41 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>

"Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>
>Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
>If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be no 
>other software manufacturers at all.

This is wrong.  The dictionary definition of a monopoly is when a
manufacturer has all or nearly all of a market.  Microsoft DOES have a
monopoly on PC operating systems.

That, in itself, is not necessarily illegal.  However, Microsoft then USED
that monopoly power to stifle their competition, and that IS illegal.

Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about browser
wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion dollar a year
market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?

>Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
>than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
>mainframe terminals.

Utter hogwash.  Computer hardware would still have followed the path it
did.  I suspect we'd all be using WordPerfect or AbiWord on some kind of
Unix clone, and I also suspect application integration wouldn't be as
commonplace as it now is, but it's silly to credit Microsoft with the
ubiquity of powerful computers.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Thu Oct  6 10:48:28 2005
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:48:28 +0200
Subject: Absolultely confused...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di3dft$g99$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Jeremy Moles wrote:
> So, here is my relevant code:
> 
> 	PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)
> 
> And here ismy error message:
> 
> 	argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d
> 

It looks as if two PyType_vector3d exist in your system
- the one that created the object passed to your routine
- the one in your extension code

As PyType_vector3d probably comes from a shared object/DLL
- does your code accesses really the same shared object that is also 
loaded by the Python interpreter? It could be that you linked with a 
specific file, but Python loads something different from $PYTHONPATH
- on Windows, you couldn't simply import a variable from a DLL, you had 
to call a special routine to get the pointer

One possible portable solution: in your module initialization
- import pylf.core
- create an object of type vector3d
- use your knowledge about the inner structure of Python objects and get 
the pointer to the PyType from the object
- store it in a module static variable TypeVector3D
- pass that variable to PyArg_ParseTuple

Browse the Python Extension API, maybe partts or all of this are already 
available.

There's still a problem left when pylf.core gets reloaded (rare, but 
possible). I assume the shared object also gets reloaded, which means 
that the type objects gets loaded to a new address and PyArg_ParseTuple 
will complain again. I'm not sure if there is a solution to this, 
because there still could be objects create from the old module.

Maybe you should just check the type yourself by comparing the class 
names buried in the PyType. You could cache one or two type pointers to 
speed this up.

Daniel


From moondusterone at comcast.net  Tue Oct 11 20:37:27 2005
From: moondusterone at comcast.net (moondusterone)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:37:27 -0500
Subject: Newbie needs help. Setting PYTHONDOCS to read HTML.
References: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>
	<1128995462.893750.155420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<L-qdnTPH8fMZrdbeRVn-gA@comcast.com>
	<1129070730.596978.199710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <W_2dneduxcsix9HenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast.com>

Yes it did.  And it worked!  Thank you!

____________
moondusterone


"Brett Hoerner" <bretthoerner at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1129070730.596978.199710 at g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> That's because the Python docs come zipped up within a folder, for
> example:
>
> python_docs.tar.bz2 has a folder inside it called Python-Docs-2.4.2.
>
> You need to have C:\Python24\Python-Docs-2.4.2\ as the value if thats
> where that folder is, or wherever you unzipped it.  I, personally, just
> took all the directories out of Python-Docs-2.4.2 and put them in
> C:\Python24\Doc and then added C:\Python24\Doc as the value for
> PYTHONDOCS.
>
> Hope that made sense.
> 




From hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de  Tue Oct 11 11:12:31 2005
From: hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de (Hans Georg Krauthaeuser)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:12:31 +0200
Subject: searching python/gui developper in germany
Message-ID: <digkov$63h$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Dear all,

for the measurements in our labs we have developed python scripts that
are pretty fine for our needs. Basically, we have classes and call the
appropriate methods from the command line (or by other scripts). So, we
don't have any GUI.

Now, an external customer want to use our software and -- as you can
imagine -- we want a pretty GUI.

So, we are looking for someone who can develop such a pretty GUI for us
(of course for money). OS is Windows (XP). We are not fixed to a special
toolkit -- it just should look nice and do the job.

Best would be someone from our region (Magdeburg, Germany).

If someone is interested: contact me by email, please.

Best regards
Hans Georg Krauthaeuser


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 11:35:19 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:35:19 +0200
Subject: Call C functions from Python
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128522414.964010.65970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1540.1128524501.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128525560.469712.214380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0rrj$3ds$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Java and Swing" wrote:

>i dont have a myapp.pyd ...i have myapp.c, or are u suggesting I dump
> the dll?

if that's what you're trying to import, yes.

> or the swig generated python file?
> the swig generated python file only has .py and .pyc.

huh?  if you have a swig-generated python file, why are you using ctypes?

</F> 





From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 31 03:19:10 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:19:10 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>	<djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<4363b997.1286415918@news.oz.net>
	<dk0fd5$i1o$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2704.1130617005.509.python-list@python.org>
	<436541ce.1390422241@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <dk4gfk$so8$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> I still smelled a bug in the counting of substring in the overlap region,
> and you motivated me to find it (obvious in hindsight, but aren't most ;-)
> 
> A substring can get over-counted if the "overlap" region joins
> infelicitously with the next input. E.g., try counting 'xx' in 10*'xx'
> with a read chunk of 4 instead of 1024*1024:
> 
> Assuming corrections so far posted as I understand them:
> 
>  >>> def byblocks(f, blocksize, overlap):
>  ...     block = f.read(blocksize)
>  ...     yield block
>  ...     if overlap>0:
>  ...         while True:
>  ...             next = f.read(blocksize-overlap)
>  ...             if not next: break
>  ...             block = block[-overlap:] + next
>  ...             yield block
>  ...     else:
>  ...         while True:
>  ...             next = f.read(blocksize)
>  ...             if not next: break
>  ...             yield next
>  ...
>  >>> def countsubst(f, subst, blksize=1024*1024):
>  ...     count = 0
>  ...     for block in byblocks(f, blksize, len(subst)-1):
>  ...         count += block.count(subst)
>  ...     f.close()
>  ...     return count
>  ...
> 
>  >>> from StringIO import StringIO as S
>  >>> countsubst(S('xx'*10), 'xx',  4)
>  13
>  >>> ('xx'*10).count('xx')
>  10
>  >>> list(byblocks(S('xx'*10), 4, len('xx')-1))
>  ['xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xx']
> 
> Of course, a large read chunk will make the problem either
> go away
> 
>  >>> countsubst(S('xx'*10), 'xx',  1024)
>  10
> 
> or might make it low probability depending on the data.

[David Rasmussen]

> First of all, this isn't a text file, it is a binary file. Secondly,
> substrings can overlap. In the sequence 0010010 the substring 0010
> occurs twice.

Coincidentally the "always overlap" case seems the easiest to fix. It
suffices to replace the count() method with

def count_overlap(s, token):
    pos = -1
    n = 0
    while 1:
        try:
            pos = s.index(token, pos+1)
        except ValueError:
            break
        n += 1
    return n

Or so I hope, without the thorough tests that are indispensable as we should
have learned by now...

Peter


From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 14:10:05 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 11:10:05 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128432188.408503.309280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432188.408503.309280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128449405.776337.251380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Istvan Albert wrote:
> >was using to track clients and transactions.  He couldn't demonstrate
> >the program for one reason or another because it was protected in a way
> >that neither could circumvent. (She didn't remember how it was
> >protected, she had hired this person a long time ago.)
>
> I'd venture to guess that neither of the people above knew much about
> programming. So do the same, create a security measure that protects
> against this level of 'threat'.

I could ask her, "If you can't break it is that good enough security?"

> As others have pointed out the simplest way would be to detect the
> presence of a hidden file, or some hardcoded system value, mac address
> etc. Obscure this step even more by encrypting some of the information
> so that one can't just simply view it in a hex editor.
> 
> Istvan.



From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 10:51:48 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 14:51:48 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.09.33.809569@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F148C7D0F7castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.16.07.49.47.989203@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns96F164547F5D0castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:26:51 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:47:09 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web
>>>> based, and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions
>>>> matter? It doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example,
>>>> OpenOffice. Yet people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one
>>>> reason is that people like to belong to a group. So even if it
>>>> really doesn't matter which OS you are going to use to access a web
>>>> application, or even which browser, people will pick a certain
>>>> browser, and a certain OS, just because. 
>>> 
>>> Dude, do you think that Microsoft gives a rat's tail[1] for what a
>>> handful of computer enthusiasts and geek programmers pick?
>> 
>> So you missed the point again. 
> 
> "Again"?
> 
> What exactly *is* your point? You seem to be oscillating from
> "Microsoft doesn't care what browser people use"

I didn't write that.

> to "Microsoft cares
> deeply what browser people use". I don't understand what you are
> trying to say. 

Neither that. I wrote: People *care* what OS they are using. Hence, even 
if there is a standard web platform for applications, and it doesn't 
matter what you use, people still will prefer MS over others. Even if 
they can't see any difference. I already wrote: look at CDs. There are 
several factories producing CDs. There are labels put on the same batch 
of CDs. So one can buy brand X, and brand Y, but basically you buy CDs 
made by factory Z, batch W. And yet people make a great deal about how 
much better X is compared to Y for burning CDs.

So even if the OS doesn't matter from a technical viewpoint (which I 
don't see happen soon), people are able to attach matters to their 
choice. It's like those cookies that every year get more tastier, 
better, etc.

>> So basically you're saying that even if web based applications become
>> the shit, everybody keeps running Microsoft? So I am right :-)
> 
> No. My point is, IF web-based apps become popular, and back in the
> 1990s people thought that they would,

Some did, some didn't. I didn't. I always said the Notworking computer 
was just that: not working.

> and they would run on any
> browser, then you could run your browser on any operating system on
> any hardware. That's what Microsoft wanted to stop, by gluing the
> browser to the OS.

And how exactly was that going to work?

>> Ah, sure, you really think that a business is going to run office 
>> applications on a web server? Are they already moving to Linux with 
>> OpenOffice (free as in speech?).
> 
> As I said, back in the 90s that's what people thought, including
> Microsoft. 

So, you have contacts in high places, or you make it up? *I* didn't 
think that back in the 90s, and I remember quite a lot of people didn't 
think it either. The diskless Networking computer had quickly a harddisc 
added, and I, and many others said: what's the difference? How much does 
a harddisc save and how much costs does it add not having it? The 
picture was clear to me, and others back then: thin clients are not 
happening. The whole PC idea is that you can shop your hardware, put it 
in a computer, and have your own *Personal* computer.

> As for OpenOffice, yes, there is a slow migration away from MS Office.

Yup, like the slow migration away from MS as an OS. 

> If you are in the US, the UK or Australia, you probably won't have
> noticed it,

I am in Mexico, am Dutch, and have been living in NZ for 2 years. The 
only companies who say that it's going to happen are the ones that do 
Linux support (go figure).

> since it is a tiny trickle in those countries. But in the
> emerging IT markets of Asia (especially China), Europe and South
> America, that trickle has become a steady stream.

I am in Latin America, and it's not happening here as far as I know. 

> Especially now that Gartner has claimed that migrating from current
> versions of Office to Office 12 will cost ten times more for training
> alone than migrating to OpenOffice, I think we can expect to see that
> trickle start gushing in the next twelve months or so.

LOL, well, I am not going to hold my breath.

>>> That is why MS
>>> decided to bundle IE with Windows and (try to) kill off Netscape as
>>> a competitor. 
>> 
>> So and when exactly do we see the web based office?
> 
> Rumour has it that Google is preparing to do exactly that.

Yeah, rumours.

> Personally, I don't see the point. I would never use a web-based
> office suite, but then I don't even like web mail. 

Yes, I agree with you. But, like I explained in a related thread 
somewhere else some time ago, a web based office will get users. As I 
said, I live in Mexico. Most people here don't have money for a PC (and 
no, they are not going to buy those miracle machines like AMD is 
promising), so they go to Internet cafes when they need one. Students I 
know already rely a lot on Hotmail, Gmail, etc, to store and exchange 
their homework. They edit it in an Internet cafe, email it, etc. So I am 
sure that in Mexico, people might going to switch to web based office.

> What's more important these days from Microsoft's strategic planning
> is multimedia.

And advertising, which is quite related of course.

> Yes, they want -- need -- to keep control of the office
> suite, Office gives them something like 1/2 their revenue. But for the
> long-term, they want to lock folks into their proprietary
> Internet-based multimedia systems (e.g. streaming wmv over mms)
> because they think that this will give them control of a very
> lucrative business. I can't really disagree with them.

Yup, I don't see MS disappear very soon now, nor do I see major shifts 
(like desktop to network) happening very soon.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Thu Oct  6 19:04:32 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 16:04:32 -0700
Subject: dcop module under Python 2.4
Message-ID: <1128639872.036312.76620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
at the end I upgraded to 2.4, but now I am not able to load dcop module
(part of the Python-KDE3 bindings).
Any help?
Bye.



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 29 14:36:12 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:36:12 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>
	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>
	<djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4363b997.1286415918@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <dk0fd5$i1o$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> What struck me was
> 
> >>>?gen?=?byblocks(StringIO.StringIO('no'),1024,len('end?')-1)
> >>>?[gen.next()?for?i?in?xrange(10)]
> ['no',?'no',?'no',?'no',?'no',?'no',?'no',?'no',?'no',?'no']

Ouch. Seems like I spotted the subtle cornercase error and missed the big
one.

Peter



From robin at reportlab.com  Tue Oct 18 14:10:53 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:10:53 +0100
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <1129647504.536405.156280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129647504.536405.156280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43553AAD.1020708@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Kay Schluehr wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:
> 
>>Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need to create
>>another class with the property changed?
>>--
>>Robin Becker
> 
> 
> It is possible to decorate a method in a way that it seems like
> property() respects overridden methods. The decorator cares
> polymorphism and accesses the right method.
> 
> def overridable(f):
>     def __wrap_func(self,*args,**kwd):
>         func = getattr(self.__class__,f.func_name)
>         if func.func_name == "__wrap_func":
>             return f(self,*args,**kwd)
>         else:
>             return func(self,*args,**kwd)
>     return __wrap_func
> 
> 
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self, x):
>         self._x = x
> 
>     @overridable
>     def get_x(self):
>         return self._x
> 
>     x = property(get_x)
> 
> class B(A):
> 
>     def get_x(self):
>         return self._x**2
> 
> class C(B):pass
> 
> 
>>>>a = A(7)
>>>>a.x
> 
> 7
> 
>>>>b = B(7)
>>>>b.x
> 
> 49
> 
>>>>c = C(7)
>>>>c.x
> 
> 49
> 

I thought that methods were always overridable. In this case the lookup on the 
class changes the behaviour of the one and only property.

-- 
Robin Becker



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 12:35:05 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:35:05 +0100
Subject: change a value to NULL?
In-Reply-To: <1128529216.608027.227010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1545.1128526655.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128529216.608027.227010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0vbi$fv4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brett Hoerner wrote:
> I'm not sure what you mean, really, do you need an official Python
> "Null" value? Try None?
> 
> In [6]: myCells = ['Mary', 'Bob', None, 'Joe']
> 
> In [7]: for cell in myCells:
>    ...:     if cell:
>    ...:         print cell
>    ...:     else:
>    ...:         print "NULL VALUE"
>    ...:
> Mary
> Bob
> NULL VALUE
> Joe
> 
> --
> 
> As far as having a Null value to put into the DB, most (SQL) DB's I've
> used have a specific SQL command like "INSERT INTO ROW VALUE NULL()",
> kind of like the SQL DATE(), etc.  I'm really rusty on my syntax etc
> right now btw so don't copy and paste that. :P
> 
And besides that, Excel is a spreadsheet not a database :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 17 20:48:30 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:48:30 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86vezwzmlt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <thh8l11m1d5h3oi99063slbf7qm0o4g6qh@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 02:25:18 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>
>Actually, *any* company with a defacto monopoly pulling such a stunt
>would be found in violation of the law. Such companies operate under
>different legal rules than other companies. This was true when IBM was
>the company that was dancing with the DOJ, and it'll be true long
>after MS is nothing more than a memory.  I don't know if anyone has
>spelled this out to MS, but IBM was told so in no uncertain terms.
 
MS would still be dancing with the DOJ hand Gates not bribed Bush to
pull the plug on the prosecution.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 03:37:52 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 00:37:52 -0700
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Steve Holden wrote:
> Johnny Lee wrote:
> > Alex Martelli wrote:
> >
> >>Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>   ...
> >>
> >>>   try:
> >>>      webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url)
> >>>   except urllib2.URLError:
> >>
> >>   ...
> >>
> >>>   webPage.close()
> >>>   return True
> >>>----------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>   But every time when I ran to the 70 to 75 urls (that means 70-75
> >>>urls have been tested via this way), the program will crash and all the
> >>>urls left will raise urllib2.URLError until the program exits. I tried
> >>>many ways to work it out, using urllib, set a sleep(1) in the filter (I
> >>>thought it was the massive urls crashed the program). But none works.
> >>>BTW, if I set the url from which the program crashed to base url, the
> >>>program will still crashed at the 70-75 url. How can I solve this
> >>>problem? thanks for your help
> >>
> >>Sure looks like a resource leak somewhere (probably leaving a file open
> >>until your program hits some wall of maximum simultaneously open files),
> >>but I can't reproduce it here (MacOSX, tried both Python 2.3.5 and
> >>2.4.1).  What version of Python are you using, and on what platform?
> >>Maybe a simple Python upgrade might fix your problem...
> >>
> >>
> >>Alex
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the info you provided. I'm using 2.4.1 on cygwin of WinXP.
> > If you want to reproduce the problem, I can send the source to you.
> >
> > This morning I found that this is caused by urllib2. When I use urllib
> > instead of urllib2, it won't crash any more. But the matters is that I
> > want to catch the HTTP 404 Error which is handled by FancyURLopener in
> > urllib.open(). So I can't catch it.
> >
>
> I'm using exactly that configuration, so if you let me have that source
> I could take a look at it for you.
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/


I've sent the source, thanks for your help.

Regrads,
Johnny



From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 20 00:09:06 2005
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (elbertlev at hotmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 21:09:06 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1129778582.411476.259500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129778582.411476.259500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129781346.035866.16660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Languages are very similar but Python has more cale avaliable. Much
more.



From rdm at rcblue.com  Wed Oct  5 18:11:20 2005
From: rdm at rcblue.com (Dick Moores)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:11:20 -0700
Subject: New Python book
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051005150954.0741e1d0@rcblue.com>

(Sorry, my previous post should not have had "Tutor" in the subject header.)

Magnus Lie Hetland's new book, _Beginning Python: From Novice to
Professional_ was published by Apress on Sept. 26 (in the U.S.). My copy
arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. Very much worth a look, IMHO.
But what do the experts here think?

<http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/159059519X>

Dick Moores
rdm at rcblue.com




From onurb at xiludom.gro  Thu Oct 20 04:48:30 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:48:30 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <435759e1$0$4297$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Amol Vaidya wrote:
> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have been 
> debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. How do these compare and contrast 
> with one another, and what advantages does one language provide over the 
> other? I would like to consider as many opinions as I can on this matter 
> before I start studying either language in depth. Any help/comments are 
> greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. 

The main point about "advantages" is that Python has a larger community,
a larger choice of libraries, and is somewhat more mature (which is not
surprising since Python is a little bit older than Ruby).

Else, both are hi-level highly dynamic object oriented languages, both
are fun to program with, and both are easy to get started with. So the
best thing to do is to give both a try and go with the one that fits
your brain.

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
ruby -e "print 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@').collect{|p|
p.split('.').collect{|w| w.reverse}.join('.')}.join('@')"
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 14 13:59:54 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:59:54 -0400
Subject: NYLUG meeting: The Python Object Model with Alex Martelli &
	Google(open bar and food!)
References: <mailman.2077.1129308291.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129312792.c8c0370da34fd63e5cace1fe6133aff9@teranews>

"Ron Guerin" <ron at vnetworx.net> wrote:

> The New York Linux User's Group invites you to a special presentation
> by Alex Martelli of Google, on the Python Object Model.  This
> presentation will be held at P.J. Clarke's Sidecar, rather than our
> usual location, and Google is picking up the tab for an hour and a half
> of open bar and food.  Additionally, if you're looking for a job as a
> Python developer, bring your resume.
>
> Please RSVP at http://rsvp.nylug.org to attend, as seating is limited.
>
> - Ron

What date is it ? It isn't mentioned at the web site either.

George





From wholcomb at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 13:33:25 2005
From: wholcomb at gmail.com (Will)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 10:33:25 -0700
Subject: subprocess exiting in an incomprehensible fashion
Message-ID: <1129916005.543449.305390@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have this bit of code:

#!/usr/bin/python

import subprocess

calc = subprocess.Popen("dc", stdin=subprocess.PIPE,
                              stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
                              stderr=subprocess.STDOUT)
max = 5
for value in range(1, max):
    calcout, calcerr = calc.communicate("%d\n" % value)
    print("Post Communicate Value %d: %s (%s) [%d]" %
          (value, calcout, calcerr, calc.returncode))
    if value > 1:
        calcout, calcerr = calc.communicate("*\n")
calcout, calerr = calc.communicate("p\n")
print("Value: %d = %d" %
      (calcout, reduce(lambda x,y: x * y, range(1, max))))
calc.communicate("q\n")
status = calc.wait()
print "Exited with: %d" % status

### End Code

After the first number is input, the subprocess is exiting after the
first communicate. I do not understand why. I have tried to accomplish
the same thing with os.popen and popen2.Popen. I can't get anything to
work and I am having a difficult time finding examples that include
both redirected input and output from a subprocess. I am wanting to do
work with a more complicated program, but was looking to get something
simple working first.

Any help would be much appreciated. I have been hunting quite a bit for
he answer to no avail.

Will Holcomb



From arve.knudsen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 14:46:25 2005
From: arve.knudsen at gmail.com (arve.knudsen at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:46:25 -0700
Subject: How to statically link Python with ncurses and readline?
In-Reply-To: <435e78d1$0$2680$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <1130263338.291061.50210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435e78d1$0$2680$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <1130265985.862970.185070@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well, I implied that _curses.so and readline.so disappeared as one
would expect, dependencies on libncurses.so and libreadline.so instead
showing up in Python itself. It's very strange that this happens with
ncurses and readline, when both db and Tcl/Tk got linked in with no
fuss. Anyway, I built static-only (.a) versions of readline and
ncurses, which did the trick.

Arve



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Oct 25 04:22:02 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:22:02 +0200
Subject: Hi All - Newby 
In-Reply-To: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
Message-ID: <435deb2c$0$652$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Ask wrote:
> G'day All,
> 
(snip)

Welcome here...

> I must admit to much confusion regarding some of the basics, but I'm sure 
> time, reading, and good advice will get rid of that. at this stage, it's 
> just working through some examples and getting my head around things. As an 
> example, if I create a window, I've been unable to force it to be a certain 
> size, and put a button (widget) at (say) 20,40 (x & y). Is window formatting 
> possible?

As you say, Python runs on a lot of platforms. It also allow the use of
a lot of GUI toolkits. So "windows formatting" isn't a Python problem -
it's specific to to toolkit you're using. Since we don't know which
you're using, there's no way to answer your question.

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From jadedgamer at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 16 03:57:11 2005
From: jadedgamer at hotmail.com (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 09:57:11 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <uk6gd99ns.fsf@hotmail.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else.

It is a de facto standard instead of a de jure standard.

Sort of how the SMTP "recommendation" is the de facto standard for
internet mail instead of ISO-MOTIS (built on the X.400 spec).


From carsten at uniqsys.com  Tue Oct  4 09:00:10 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:00:10 -0400
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <43427640.3010707@holdenweb.com>
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>
	<1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com> <dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org>
	<1128428782.4070.42.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<43427640.3010707@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <1128430810.4070.55.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 08:32, Steve Holden wrote:
> Carsten Haese wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 17:37, Steve Holden wrote:
> > 
> >>Carsten Haese wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 16:41, Carsten Haese wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 15:52, Jacob Kroon wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
> >>>>>First let me
> >>>>>describe the scenario with an example:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>modules/
> >>>>>   fruit/
> >>>>>       __init__.py
> >>>>>       apple.py
> >>>>>       banana.py
> >>>>>
> >>>>>apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
> >>>>>problem lies in the
> >>>>>fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
> >>>>>peach.py, and not change
> >>>>>__init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
> >>>>>__init__.py. I've come halfway
> >>>>>by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
> >>>>>that the instantiated
> >>>>>objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
> >>>>>I want it to be
> >>>>>fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
> >>>>>If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
> >>>>>be very grateful.
> >>>>
> >>>>How about something like this in fruit/__init__.py:
> >>>>
> >>>>import os
> >>>>
> >>>>fruit_dir = os.path.dirname(__file__)
> >>>>fruit_files = [x for x in os.listdir(fruit_dir) if (x[-3:]=='.py' and x!='__init__.py')]
> >>>>for fruit_file in fruit_files:
> >>>> module_name = fruit_files[:-3]
> >>>
> >>>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^ This should be fruit_file, of course.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> exec "from %s import *" % module_name
> >>>>
> >>
> >>Wouldn't
> >>
> >>     __import__(module_name)
> >>
> >>be better.
> > 
> > 
> > I don't see how a working example that meets the OP's requirements can
> > be constructed using __import__, but that may easily be due to my lack
> > of imagination. How would you do it?
> > 
> I was simply suggesting that you replace the exec statement with a call 
> to __import__(). Wouldn't that work?

Not the way I tried it by simply replacing my line with your line. (If
it matters, I'm on python 2.2 here.) First of all, the __import__
variant doesn't see the submodules unless I add fruit_dir to sys.path.
Secondly, the OP's requirements are that the classes that the submodules
implement be imported into fruit's namespace, and I don't see how to
make __import__ do that.

Regards,

Carsten Haese.




From eight02645999 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 23:21:20 2005
From: eight02645999 at yahoo.com (eight02645999 at yahoo.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 20:21:20 -0700
Subject: query a port
Message-ID: <1130642480.233982.197760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi
in python, how do one query a port to see whether it's up or not?
thanks



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 26 15:06:57 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:06:57 -0400
Subject: Problem ... with threads in Python
In-Reply-To: <000601c5da56$291323d0$a6b07856@cosmin>
References: <000601c5da56$291323d0$a6b07856@cosmin>
Message-ID: <435FD3D1.4070607@bellsouth.net>

Negoescu Constantin wrote:

> Hello.
>  
>     I know that Python is */not fully threadsafe/*. Unlike Java, where 
> threading was considered to be so important that it is a part of the 
> syntax, in Python threads were laid down at the altar of Portability. 
> But, i really have to finish a project  which uses multiple threads in 
> Python, and i shouldn't use the time.sleep() function.
>     Is there any posibility to use multiple threads without using the 
> time.sleep() function ? And if so, what that way should be ?
>  
> Best regards,
> _Cosmin

You might want to give us a little more detail on what you're trying to 
accomplish and how you're using sleep() so we'll be able to help you 
better.  Are you trying to use sleep() as a synchronization mechanism 
between threads?

- jmj


From ivoras at fer.hr  Tue Oct 11 07:42:36 2005
From: ivoras at fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:42:36 +0200
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
In-Reply-To: <8664s4zfvv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<8664s4zfvv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dig8gq$g4f$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> The easy way to do all these things - from C, anyway - is with
> daemon(3). That isn't wrapped as part of the Python library. The
> easiest way to solve your problem may be write a wrapper for that
> call. If daemon exists on enough systems, submitting your wrapper as a
> patch to the os modulee would be appropriate.

I think the deamon() library call only exists on the BSDs. Anyway, there 
it is implemented with a fork() call and some additional code to close 
std descriptors, so there's no practical difference between calling 
deamon() and fork() by yourself...


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 24 04:19:18 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:19:18 +0200
Subject: [OT] Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <43593468$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <43593468$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <435c9906$0$14034$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> bruno modulix wrote:
> 
>> ... Another language that failed to make it to the mainstream but is
>> worth giving a try is Smalltalk - the father of OOPLs (Simula being the
>> GrandFather). 
> 
> I would say Simula is the forefather of modern OOPLs, and Smalltalk is
> the toofather.

Err... I'm afraid I don't understand this last word (and google have not
been of much help here)



-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From leasun at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 12:08:45 2005
From: leasun at gmail.com (leasun)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 09:08:45 -0700
Subject: bsddb version?
Message-ID: <1130083725.481400.323330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Anybody knows which version bsddb is released with py2.3 and py2.4?
Thanks.



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 25 04:38:55 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:38:55 -0400
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2486.1130167209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <WtidnVQCleS_csDeRVn-rw@powergate.ca>

Joerg Schuster wrote:
> I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups. If someone told me
> that it is very unlikely for Python to get rid of the said limitation,
> I would recode part of my program in C++ using pcre. 

It is very unlikely for Python to get rid of the said limitation.

-Peter


From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  5 08:12:08 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:12:08 -0500
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
In-Reply-To: <di0f0b$k9m$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com> <di0f0b$k9m$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4343C318.3090902@yahoo.com>

Here's the Script it was being used in (forgive it if it seems a bit 
messy, i have been tinkering with variables and such to try different 
ideas and haven't really cleaned it up).

import ctest
import Tkinter
import threading

hue_map = 
("#FFFFFF","#FEFEFF","#FDFDFF","#FCFCFF","#FBFBFF","#FAFAFF","#F9F9FF","#F8F8F8","#F7F7FF","#F6F6F6","#EEEEFF","#DDDDFF","#CCCCFF","#BBBBFF","#AAAAFF","#9999FF","#8888FF",\
        
"#7777FF","#6666FF","#5555FF","#4444FF","#3333FF","#2222FF","#1111FF","#0000FF")

class Mandelbrot_Set(Tkinter.Canvas):
    def __init__(self,master,iters):
        Tkinter.Canvas.__init__(self,master)
        self.dims = {'x':500,'y':500}
        self.config(height=self.dims['y'],width=self.dims['x'])
        self.r_range = (-2.0,2.0)
        self.i_range = (-2.0,2.0)
        self.iters = iters
        self.prec = 
{'r':1.*(self.r_range[1]-self.r_range[0])/(self.dims['x']),'i':1.*(self.i_range[1]-self.i_range[0])/self.dims['y']}
        self.escapemap = 
ctest.escapeMap(-1j,self.iters,(self.dims['x'],self.dims['y']),(self.r_range[0],self.r_range[1]),(self.i_range[0],self.i_range[1]))
        self.select = False
        self.select_event = (0,0)
        self.sbox = None
        self.bind("<Button-1>",self.selection_box)
        self.bind("<Motion>",self.select_update)
        self.t_draw = threading.Thread(target=self.draw)
        self.t_draw.start()
       
    def draw(self):
        for j in range(self.dims['y']):
            i = 0
            while i < self.dims['x']:
                cur = 0;
                try:
                    color = self.escapemap[j][i]
                    while self.escapemap[j][i+cur] == color:
                        cur+=1
                except IndexError:
                    break;
                hue_step = 1.*len(hue_map)/self.iters
                if color == -1: f = "#000000"
                else: f = hue_map[int(hue_step*color)]
                self.create_line(i,j,i+cur,j,fill=f)
                i+=cur
               
    def selection_box(self,event):
        if not self.select:
            self.select_event = (event.x,event.y)
            self.select = True
        else:
            self.r_range = self.new_range(event.x,self.select_event[0])
            self.i_range = self.new_range(event.y,self.select_event[1])
            print self.r_range,self.i_range
            self.select = False
            self.delete(Tkinter.ALL)
            self.t_draw.run()
        self.select_update(event)
       
    def new_range(self,x,y):
        if x > y:
            return (y,x)
        else:
            return (x,y)
       
    def select_update(self,event):
        if not self.select:
            return
        else:
            if self.sbox != None:
                self.delete(self.sbox)
                self.sbox = 
self.create_rectangle(self.select_event[0],self.select_event[1],event.x,event.y,fill=None,outline="#000000")
            else:
                self.sbox = 
self.create_rectangle(self.select_event[0],self.select_event[1],event.x,event.y,fill=None,outline="#000000")
           
if __name__ == "__main__":
    root = Tkinter.Tk()
    c = Mandelbrot_Set(root,50)
    c.pack()
    root.mainloop()

The error occurs in the instantiation of the Mandelbrot_Set object.
Additionally in little mini timing scripts such as

import time
import ctest

t = time.time()
c = ctest.escapeMap(-1j,100,(500,500))
print time.time()-t

this will crash it too
however I found that just opening up the interpreter and typing

import ctest
ctest.escapeMap(-1j,100,(50,50)) #50 yields much smaller output than 500x500

it generates a 2d tuple fine.  So the error seems really obscure to me, 
and I don't understand it.
> Brandon Keown wrote:
>
>   
>>    I have programmed a fractal generator (Julia Set/Mandelbrot Set) in
>> python in the past, and have had good success, but it would run so
>> slowly because of the overhead involved with the calculation.  I
>> recently purchased VS .NET 2003 (Win XP, precomp binary of python
>> 2.4.2rc1) to make my own extensions.  I was wondering if anyone could
>> help me figure out why I'm getting obscure memory exceptions (runtime
>> errors resulting in automatic closing of Python) with my extension.  It
>> seems to run okay if imported alone, but when accompanied in a list of
>> instructions such as a function it crashes.
>>     
>
> a short script or interpreter session that illustrates how to get the errors
> would help.
>
> </F> 
>
>
>
>   

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From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 20 18:07:51 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:07:51 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>
	<dj56ba$2oe$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<d8uel1ldn28q45ka1mrb2ep26cvmmuv6pq@4ax.com>
	<uNM5f.153113$RW.59193@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.20.13.46.50.253609@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <XyU5f.5227$tV6.3045@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.20.13.46.50.253609 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:17:14 +0000, axel wrote:
>
>> Employees have *no* obligations towards the shareholders of a company.
>> They are not employed or paid by the shareholders, they are employed
>> by the company itself which is a separate legal entity.
>>
>> It is a different matter for the board of directors of a company.
>
> The board of directors are also employees of the company. That's why the
> company can fire them.

The relationships are a bit more complex than that:

The shareholders elect a Board of Directors to represent their interests. 
The board then hires a management staff, which reports to them.  The 
management staff hires other employees, who report (directly or indirectly) 
to management.

An employee who refuses to act as directed, claiming that he's thinking of 
the shareholders' interests, can be fired for cause.  His only recourse 
would be to become a shareholder (not hard), and then get the attention of 
either the board or a large block of shareholders (much harder).  If 
management is actually breaking the law (say by Enron-like looting) rather 
than simply making decisions he considers suboptimal, he can also go to the 
authorities, but he does this in his capacity as private citizen; his status 
as employee gives him no additional rights or responsibilities in this 
respect.

As Axel says, a regular employee has no direct obligations towards the 
shareholders. 




From mystilleef at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 06:32:45 2005
From: mystilleef at gmail.com (Mystilleef)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 03:32:45 -0700
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
In-Reply-To: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129026765.635156.109690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Thanks to all the responders and helpers on the group. I'm learning
everyday.

Thanks



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 13:34:05 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:05 -0600
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
Message-ID: <sq6dnXpiS9QUu8TenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com>

Andrew Jaffe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to 
> store global state information for all instances of a class. These are 
> set by a classmethod as in the following (in reality the setcvar method 
> is more complicated than this!):
> 
> class sup(object):
>     cvar1 = None
>     cvar2 = None
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def setcvar1(cls, val):
>         cls.cvar1 = val
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def setcvar2(cls, val):
>         cls.cvar2 = val
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def printcvars(cls):
>     print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
> 
> 
> I can then call setcvar on either instances of the class or the class 
> itself.
> 
> Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I override 
> the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this class, and 
> then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:
> 
> class sub(sup):
>     cvar1a = None
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
>         cls.cvar1a = vala
>         sup.setcvar1(val)
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def printcvars(cls):
>         print cls.cvar1a
>         sup.printcvars()
> 
> This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.
> 
> However, if  I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call 
> sub.setcvar2(val) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no 
> longer identical to sup.cvar1!
> 
> In particular,
>     sub.setcvar1(1,10)
>     sub.setcvar2(2)
>     sub.printcvars()
> prints
>   10
>   1 None
> 
> i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
> but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None

I'm not sure if I understand your goal here, but you can get different 
behavior using super().

py> class sup(object):
...     cvar1 = None
...     cvar2 = None
...     @classmethod
...     def setcvar1(cls, val):
...         cls.cvar1 = val
...     @classmethod
...     def setcvar2(cls, val):
...         cls.cvar2 = val
...     @classmethod
...     def printcvars(cls):
...         print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
...
py> class sub(sup):
...     cvar1a = None
...     @classmethod
...     def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
...         cls.cvar1a = vala
...         super(sub, cls).setcvar1(val)
...     @classmethod
...     def printcvars(cls):
...         print cls.cvar1a
...         super(sub, cls).printcvars()
...
py> sub.setcvar1(1, 10); sub.setcvar2(2); sub.printcvars()
10
1 2
py> sup.printcvars()
None None

I'm not sure what you want sup.printcvars() to print afterwards. If you 
want it to print out "1 2" instead of "None None", then what you're 
trying to do is to set every cvar in every superclass.  You'll need to 
be explicit about this, perhaps something like:

py> class sup(object):
...     cvar1 = None
...     cvar2 = None
...     @classmethod
...     def setcvar1(cls, val):
...         for cls in cls.mro()[:-1]: # search through superclasses
...             cls.cvar1 = val
...     @classmethod
...     def setcvar2(cls, val):
...         for cls in cls.mro()[:-1]: # search through superclasses
...             cls.cvar2 = val
...     @classmethod
...     def printcvars(cls):
...         print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
...
py> class sub(sup):
...     cvar1a = None
...     @classmethod
...     def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
...         for cls in cls.mro()[:-2]: # search through superclasses
...             cls.cvar1a = vala
...         super(sub, cls).setcvar1(val)
...     @classmethod
...     def printcvars(cls):
...         print cls.cvar1a
...         super(sub, cls).printcvars()
...
py> sub.setcvar1(1, 10); sub.setcvar2(2); sub.printcvars()
10
1 2
py> sup.printcvars()
1 2

That is, if you want the cvar set on every superclass, you need an 
assignment statement for every superclass.  There's probably a way to 
factor out the for-loop so you don't have to write it every time, but I 
haven't thought about it too much yet.  Perhaps an appropriate 
descriptor in the metaclass...

STeVe


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 15 23:52:06 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:52:06 -0400
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>

themightydoyle at gmail.com wrote:
> I also need an answer to this problem.  

What _is_ the problem?  We're still waiting for a clear description from 
the OP as to what the problem really is.  How would you describe what 
_your_ problem is?

 > I'm using windows.  Throwing an
> exception in thread B from thread A using a callback function.
> 
> The function runs, but the thread never actually catches the exception.
>  The try/except block is in the run() method (over-riden from the
> Thread class)

Rather than force us all to guess what you are doing wrong, maybe it 
would be better if you posted a small amount of code that shows the problem.

Exceptions raised in threads can definitely be caught in the run() 
method if the code is written correctly, so that is not in itself an issue.

-Peter


From kerysso at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 03:33:41 2005
From: kerysso at gmail.com (kery)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 00:33:41 -0700
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130052821.015256.9630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> microsnot <microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ...
>
> On the Mac, I think the XCode integration you get with PyObjC is
> probably best.  I know there are plugins for Eclipse but haven't tried
> any personally, so it's hard to make suggestions (I'm a dinosaur, and I
> prefer to develop with GVim + a command-line tool, such as Python's own
> interactive mode...).  I'm not sure if BlackAdder (simplest and fastest
> to learn) and WingIDE (probably THE one most powerful Python IDE) work
> on the Mac (shame on me, as a Python AND Mac enthusiast, for not having
> tried them...), but they're surely worth investigating.  Ditto for
> ActiveState's Komodo tool...
>
>
> Alex

Any suggestions for Linux, specifically SuSE or perhaps Red Hat?

Thanks in advance,
Kery



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:30:12 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:30:12 -0700
Subject: Wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1912.1129054391.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r2c91FhamghU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129053625.591216.116340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1912.1129054391.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129055412.329565.232630@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

So, I write the C code...as shown previously.

Then, I do something like...

c:\> python
>> from distutils.core import setup, Extension
>>
>>setup(
>>    name="DLLTester",
>>    ext_modules = [Extension("DLLTester", ["test.c"])]
>>    )

c:\> python setup.py build_ext -i

..is that it?  If so, then it's ok that I get those 2 errors when
trying to build in visual c++?

thanks

Robert Kern wrote:
> Java and Swing wrote:
>
> > When I compile, I get two warnings..which are ok.  Then when I build my
> > DLL I get..
> >
> > Linking...
> >    Creating library Release/MyDLL.lib and object Release/MyDLL.exp
> > test.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _PyBuildValue
> > Release/MyDLL.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
> > Error executing link.exe.
> >
> > MyDLL.dll - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)
> >
> > ..Any ideas?
>
> Are you using distutils to build your extension module? You should be.
>
> --
> Robert Kern
> rkern at ucsd.edu
>
> "In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
>  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
>   -- Richard Harter



From ggrp1.20.martineau at dfgh.net  Wed Oct  5 17:43:02 2005
From: ggrp1.20.martineau at dfgh.net (Martin Miller)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 14:43:02 -0700
Subject: replacments for stdio?
References: <1127477278.036977.189230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127670588.872596.117560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128079278.563621.8310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128548582.759883.326290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ido,

I tried Bryan Olson's code [on Windows] from his last post to the
"Catching stderr output from graphical apps" thread <see
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/d61f1d5e02d84178>,
and it seemed to work for stdout as well as stderr output.

To enable its use with stdout, all I had to do was un-comment the last
line in Bryan's post, namely
>    # sys.stdout = ErrorPipe()
and the any stdout output starting would appear in a separate window.

Since it's based on Tkinter, and from what Bryan said in his post, I
believe it's a fairly portable solution. [Nice work, Bryan!]

Best,
-Martin


Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks martin,
>     I'll give it a shot as soon as i get back from work!



From mrmaple at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:06:05 2005
From: mrmaple at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:06:05 -0700
Subject: MS Word Outline -> reStructuredText script?
In-Reply-To: <1129322010.339492.319420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129319634.407351.27080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129322010.339492.319420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129323965.137194.173250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'll look into that.  I also found that Open Office can read the .doc
file and then saveAs a DocBook xml file.  I think DocUtils can parse
and write both DocBook and reStructured text, but It'll take me some
time to experiment with it.

David Mertz has an article that shows reSt -> DocBook, I just need to
do the opposite.

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-matters24/?ca=dnt-45

-Jim



From stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de  Wed Oct 12 07:07:35 2005
From: stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:07:35 +0200
Subject: wrapping single classes in an extension module
Message-ID: <diiqr0$3nb$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hi!

In a project, I'm providing an API that is made up by augmenting XML DOM
elements with tag specific attributes and methods. These actually operate on
the DOM and fulfill the need of making the DOM API more user friendly and
domain specific.

I currently use PyXML/4DOM and I'm considering moving the project to a
different package of XML tools that (in addition to XPath) supports RelaxNG,
XSLT, etc. out-of-the-box. My preferred candidate would be lxml (based on
libxml2, which supports basically all XML standards), but it is backed by
classes written in C, which effectively prohibits my current approach of
sticking methods into objects generated by the parser API (the __slots__ problem).

I guess I'd have to go for a more general wrapper for the XML API that
/replaces/ the respective objects (Elements) by my own subclasses whereever
they may occurr, i.e. as return values of various functions, as content of
containers that are being passed around, etc. This looks like a lot of work to
me...

Therefore my question: Can anyone imagine a simpler way of approaching this
problem? My main interest is to extend the API of XML handling by my domain
specific one to make usable through the same objects.

Thanks in advance,
Stefan


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 20:41:15 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:41:15 -0700
Subject: dictionary interface
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <dhv7fb$ku3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Robert Kern wrote:
> 
>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>>  class Tree:
>>>
>>>    def __lt__(self, term):
>>>      return set(self.iteritems()) < set(term.iteritems())
>>>
>>>    def __eq__(self, term):
>>>      return set(self.iteritems()) == set(term.iteritems())
>>>
>>>Would this be a correct definition of the desired behaviour?
>>
>>No.
>>
>>In [1]: {1:2} < {3:4}
>>Out[1]: True
>>
>>In [2]: set({1:2}.iteritems()) < set({3:4}.iteritems())
>>Out[2]: False
>>
>>>Anyone a reference?
>>
>>The function dict_compare in dictobject.c .
> 
> Well there's a really helpful answer. 

Well, *I* thought it was. Maybe not "really" helpful, but certainly a
healthy start.

> I'm intrigued, Robert - since you 
> know the real answer to this question, why did you choose to tell the 
> Antoon that he was wrong, not tell him in what way he was wrong, certainly 
> not tell him how to be right, but just tell him to read the source, rather 
> than simply telling him what you knew?

Because I *didn't* know. I *still* don't know. I just know that the
implementation of __lt__ was wrong as I demonstrated by applying the
given algorithm to real dictionaries. I *do* know where to find that
information: the source. So I told him absolutely everything that I knew
on the subject. I couldn't tell him anything more except by trudging
through the details of the source myself, but I'm not particularly
interested in learning those details myself, so I didn't bother.

What do you want? Personalized Python tutorials delivered by candygram?
A detailed comparison of the various partial ordering schemes that could
have been used? My first born son?

> Still, at least you told him which 
> file to look in.

Yes, I figured it was the polite, helpful thing to do. Apparently, I
shouldn't have bothered.

> And if he knows python but not C, or gets lost in the 
> byzantine workings of the interpreter, well, that's his own fault, i 
> guess.

It's certainly not mine.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 31 23:20:37 2005
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 20:20:37 -0800
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndmbpc3.7jg.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<mailman.2722.1130752831.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndmbrvo.8f7.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<mailman.2723.1130755161.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dk602a$7bk$1@news.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <1130818837.615748.151150@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Steve Horsley wrote:
> Ben O'Steen wrote:
> > On Mon, October 31, 2005 10:23, Sybren Stuvel said:
> >> Ben O'Steen enlightened us with:
> >>> Using decimal as opposed to float sorts out this error as floats are
> >>> not built to handle the size of number used here.
> >> They can handle the size just fine. What they can't handle is 1/1000th
> >> precision when using numbers in the order of 1e10.
> >
> > I used the word 'size' here incorrectly, I intended to mean 'length'
> > rather than numerical value. Sorry for the confusion :)
>
> Sybren is right. The problem is not the length or the size, it's
> the fact that 0.039 cannot be represented exactly in binary, in
> just the same way that 1/3 cannot be represented exactly in
> decimal. They both give recurring numbers. If you truncate those
> recurring numbers to a finite number of digits, you lose
> precision. And this shows up when you convert the inaccurate
> number from binary into decimal representation where an exact
> representation IS possible.

That's A source of error, but it's only part of the story.  The
double-precision binary representation of 0.039 is 5620492334958379 *
2**(-57), which is in error by 1/18014398509481984000.  By contrast,
Johnny Lee's answer is in error by 9/262144000, which is more than 618
billion times the error of simply representing 0.039 in floating point
-- a loss of 39 bits.

The problem here is catastrophic cancellation.

1130748744.500 ~= 4742703982051328 * 2**(-22)
1130748744.461 ~= 4742703981887750 * 2**(-22)

Subtracting gives 163578 * 2**(-22), which has only 18 significant bits.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 02:44:48 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 08:44:48 +0200
Subject: Background process for ssh port forwarding
References: <pan.2005.10.01.23.17.38.878080@columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <dhnvl3$la6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jesse Rosenthal wrote:

> If I end this with 'connection.interact()', I will end up logged in to the
> forwarding server. But what I really want is to go on and run rsync to
> localhost port 2022, which will forward to my_server port 22. So, how can
> I put the ssh connection I set up in hostforward() in the background?
> I need to make sure that connection is made before I can run the rsync
> command.

$ man ssh

    ...

     -f      Requests ssh to go to background just before command execution.
             This is useful if ssh is going to ask for passwords or
             passphrases, but the user wants it in the background.  This
             implies -n.  The recommended way to start X11 programs at a
             remote site is with something like ssh -f host xterm.

    ...

</F>





From appumail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 05:40:14 2005
From: appumail at gmail.com (Murugesh)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:10:14 +0530
Subject: Help-log in to a web page
In-Reply-To: <zf61f.10$nq6.24@news.oracle.com>
References: <aM51f.8$nq6.116@news.oracle.com>
	<mailman.1594.1128589260.509.python-list@python.org>
	<zf61f.10$nq6.24@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <6x61f.11$nq6.8@news.oracle.com>

Murugesh wrote:

>
> Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
>
>> Murugesh wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I'm a newbie to python.I need to login to a webpage after supplying 
>>> usename and password.
>>>
>>> import urllib   sock = urllib.urlopen("http://xop-pc.main.com")
>>> htmlSource = sock.read()                           
>>> sock.close()                                       print 
>>> htmlSource       
>>> In the above code how can i supply username and password to that URL.
>>> Thanks for you time.
>>>  
>>>
>> xop-pc.main.com is not an existing site.
>> Can you tell me what kind of authentication method it is using?
>> If that is the "basic authentication" (defined the standard HTTP 
>> protocol) then you need to read this:
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/lib/urlopener-objs.html
>>
>> Basically, you need to subclass URLopener or FancyURLopener, and 
>> overwrite its "prompt_user_passwd" method.
>> That method will be then called whenever the server needs 
>> authentication.
>>
>> Here is a template for you (untested):
>>
>>
>> from urllib import FancyURLOpener
>> class MyOpener(FancyURLOpener):
>>    def prompt_user_passwd(host,realm):
>>       return ('myusername','mypassword')
>>
>> opener = MyOpener({})
>> f = opener.open("http://xop-pc.main.com")
>> try:
>>    html_source = f.read()
>> finally:
>>    f.close()
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>  Les
>>
>>
>
> I tried to view the source,it has,
>   ....
>  ....
>          src="/em/cabo/images /t.gif" height="80"></td><td><table 
> align="center" border="0" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="0"><tr id="username
>         __xc_"><td align="right" nowrap><span class="x8"><span 
> title="Required" class="xc">*</span>&nbsp;*User Name</s
>         pan></td><td width="12"><img src="/em/cabo/images/t.gif" 
> width="12"></td><td valign="top" nowrap><input
>         id="username" class="x4" onkeypress="return 
> _submitOnEnter(event, 'User');" name="j_username" size="30"
>         type="text" value="myadmin"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" 
> nowrap><span class="x8"><span title="Required"
>         class="xc">*</span>&nbsp;Password</span></td><td 
> width="12"><img src="/em/cabo/images/t.gif" width="12"></td
>         ><td valign="top" nowrap><input id="M__Id" class="x4" 
> name="j_password" size="30*" autocomplete="off" type="p
> ...
> ...
>
> Thanks
> Amen
> *
> *
>
>>

Les,
I tried your code and it hangs.I believe the authentication is different 
from the standard one.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Amen

>>
>>
>

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From claird at lairds.us  Thu Oct  6 07:08:09 2005
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:08:09 GMT
Subject: Can Python replace TCL/Expect
References: <1128578298.778640.313900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1583.1128579857.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ncf13-2ps.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.1583.1128579857.509.python-list at python.org>,
Robert Kern  <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>xinchenvn at gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I'm learning Python. I don't know whether Python can do something like
>> Expect can do. If yes, please show me how to do it.
>> I want to do something automatically: open connection to a ftp server,
>> get the welcome message on the screen (not in the packet). I can do it
>> easily with Expect but I still don't have any idea with Python.
>> If possible, can you introduce me some book or website that I can get
>> infor about automation programming with Python
>
>You'll probably want to take a look at pexpect:
>
>  http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
			.
			.
			.
1.  Yes.
2.  While Pexpect indeed "can do something like Expect", 
    it does NOT have all the facilities and polish of the
    latter.
3.  But very, VERY few of Expect's users are aware of more
    than a handful of Expect's functions, let alone use them,
    so it's fair to say that Pexpect does everything Expect
    does, within the realm of ordinary use.
4.  But it sort-of doesn't matter anyway, because, if the
    goal is (as appears in this case) to work with ftp, 
    there are better ways to work, anyway <URL:
    http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.unix.programmer/ftp_automation.html >
    <URL: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/ftp-handler-objects.html >.


From sjsobol at JustThe.net  Sat Oct 15 22:17:18 2005
From: sjsobol at JustThe.net (Steve Sobol)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:17:18 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <disc4r$ij9$2@ratbert.glorb.com>

Xah Lee wrote:

> Answer: so did the German population thought Jews are morons by
> heritage, to the point that Jews should be exterminated from earth.
> Apparently, the entire German population cannot be morons, they must be
> right.

Y'know, I'm Jewish, I have friends who are Holocaust survivors, and I still 
think you're a complete asshole for even attempting to compare anything 
Microsoft does to what Hitler did. It trivializes the Holocaust.

Fuck off.

Please.

(There, I said "please.")

-- 
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek   888-480-4638   PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol at JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Oct  6 20:05:01 2005
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:05:01 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <4345BBAD.9060104@rogers.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

>I need to merge several sources of values into one stream of values. All 
>of the sources are sorted already and I need to retrieve the values from 
>them all in sorted order.
>
>In other words:
>s1 = [10, 20, 30, 40, 50]
>s2 = [15, 25]
>s3 = [17, 27, 37]
>
>for value in ???(s1, s2, s3):
>     print value
>
>will print out 10, 15, 17, 20, 25, 27, 30, 37, 40, 50 in that order.
>
>The sources are cursors retrieving data from several databases, not from 
>the same server, and there's a potential for a large number of rows from 
>several of the sources. As such, any method that would load it all into 
>memory and sort it is no good as it would too much memory.
>
>Is there a function or whatnot in Python that will do what I want? I 
>have come up with my own method but since it uses generators I'm not 
>sure how much overhead there is. Additionally, since the values 
>retrieved from the cursors will be dictionaries of "fieldname":value 
>pairs, the method would either need to handle that construct (and be 
>told what fieldname to sort on), or be able to take a function object to 
>use for the comparison operation.
>
>Basically, I'll use my own function for this unless someone can point me 
>to something that is already available. Couldn't seem to find anything 
>in the builtin modules but I didn't find glob.glob when I was looking 
>for how to find filenames either so who knows what it's called :)
>
>Since I need to deal with a variable list of sources (that is, 2 in one 
>application, 3 in another and 4-5 in a third), a simple 2-source method 
>isn't enough but if it's better than what I do for 2 sources then I can 
>make a wrapper for it, since that's what I do anyway.
>  
>
I doubt you'll find a prebuilt one, it's fairly easy to create your own, 
after all.  Generators are fairly fast constructs in Python, btw.  
Here's what I whipped up in a few minutes:

def firstIter( value ):
    it = iter( value )
    try:
        return it.next(), it
    except StopIteration, err:
        return None, None

def inorder( comparision, *args ):
    iterators = [
        [value,it]
        for (value,it) in [ firstIter( arg ) for arg in args ]
        if it is not None
    ]
    iterators.sort()
    while iterators:
        yield iterators[0][0]
        try:
            value = iterators[0][0] = iterators[0][1].next()
        except StopIteration, err:
            iterators.pop(0)
        else:
            if len(iterators) > 1 and comparision( value, 
iterators[1][0]) == 1:
                iterators.sort()
                continue

if __name__ == "__main__":
    s1 = [10, 20, 30, 40, 50]
    s2 = [15, 25]
    s3 = [17, 27, 37]
    s4 = []
    for value in inorder(cmp, s1, s2, s3, s4):
        print value


Anyway, have fun,
Mike

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From rvtol+news at isolution.nl  Sun Oct  9 15:53:52 2005
From: rvtol+news at isolution.nl (Dr.Ruud)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:53:52 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk> <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.40.32.740000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<0trik1ldrtvuhsdvoai4a7h34q7la1pehl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dic3ju.1is.1@news.isolution.nl>

Roedy Green:

> (Note that the most
> common spam is the Nigerian con and variants which comes as a
> non-formatted message.)

Don't think that that is true for everybody. For example not for people
that are behind central filters that already cope with common spam.

-- 
Affijn, Ruud    <http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh770781&cmd=tunermini>

"Gewoon is een tijger."



From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 13:38:43 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:38:43 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <1130174674.759464.197470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1130174674.759464.197470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130175523.594766.207770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What about having a thread which reads from subprocess.Popen()'s
stdout...instead of read/write, read/write.  just always read, and
write when needed?

any comments on that idea?

jas wrote:
> actually, i can't check for ">" only because if you a dir, a line can
> end with a > but is not the end of the output
>
> jas wrote:
> > Thanks, that is certainly a start.  As you mentioned, the "cd" could is
> > an issue.
> >
> > Perhaps checking to see if the line ends with ">" is sufficient?
> >
> > Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > > On 24 Oct 2005 07:20:42 -0700, "jas" <codecraig at gmail.com> declaimed the
> > > following in comp.lang.python:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >   I would like to start a new process and be able to read/write from/to
> > > > it.  I have tried things like...
> > > >
> > > > import subprocess as sp
> > > > p = sp.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> > > > p.stdin.write("hostname\n")
> > > >
> > > > however, it doesn't seem to work.  I think the cmd.exe is catching it.
> > >
> > > 	One: you didn't read any of the "returned" output...
> > >
> > > 	Two: the output only seems to be available upon EOF, which means the
> > > spawned command processor has to exit first... Though you CAN read one
> > > character at a time, and then have to build lines and expected prompt
> > > strings...
> > >
> > >
> > > This seems to work:
> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > > import subprocess
> > > import os
> > >
> > > PROMPT = os.getcwd() + ">"
> > >
> > > def getLine(proc):
> > >     ld = []
> > >     while True:
> > >         c = proc.stdout.read(1)
> > >         if c == "\r": continue  #skip Windows <cr>
> > >         if c != "\n": ld.append(c) #save all but <lf>
> > >         if c is None or c == "\n" or c == ">": break
> > >     ln = "".join(ld)
> > >     return ln
> > >
> > > p = subprocess.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stdin =
> > > subprocess.PIPE)
> > >
> > > print "**** START of captured output"
> > > while True:
> > >     ln = getLine(p)
> > >     print ln
> > >     if ln == PROMPT: break
> > > print "**** END of captured output"
> > >
> > > p.stdin.write("ipconfig\n")
> > > print "**** START of captured output"
> > > while True:
> > >     ln = getLine(p)
> > >     print ln
> > >     if ln == PROMPT: break
> > > print "**** END of captured output"
> > >
> > > p.stdin.write("dir\n")
> > > print "**** START of captured output"
> > > while True:
> > >     ln = getLine(p)
> > >     print ln
> > >     if ln == PROMPT: break
> > > print "**** END of captured output"
> > >
> > > p.stdin.write("exit\n")
> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>python script1.py
> > > **** START of captured output
> > > Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> > > (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> > >
> > > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> > > **** END of captured output
> > > **** START of captured output
> > > ipconfig
> > >
> > > Windows IP Configuration
> > >
> > >
> > > Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
> > >
> > >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> > >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
> > >         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
> > >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::211:11ff:fee1:f303%4
> > >         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
> > >
> > > Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
> > >
> > >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> > >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> > > 3ffe:831f:4004:1956:0:fbde:bd0a:e50b
> > >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5445:5245:444f%5
> > >         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
> > >
> > > Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
> > >
> > >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> > >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.1.100%2
> > >         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
> > >
> > > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> > > **** END of captured output
> > > **** START of captured output
> > > dir
> > >  Volume in drive E is Data
> > >  Volume Serial Number is 2626-D991
> > >
> > >  Directory of E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents
> > >
> > > 10/24/2005  09:23 AM    <DIR>
> > >           .
> > > 10/24/2005  09:23 AM    <DIR>
> > >           ..
> > > 07/25/2005  10:39 PM    <DIR>
> > >           .metadata
> > > 10/06/2005  09:54 AM    <DIR>
> > >           Ada Progs
> > > 08/13/2005  02:01 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Agent Data
> > > 10/21/2005  09:29 AM           421,820 apress_offer.pdf
> > > 07/03/2005  11:36 AM               132 cp.py
> > > 07/17/2005  12:25 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Cyberlink
> > > 07/06/2005  09:32 AM           102,400 db1.mdb
> > > 07/26/2005  12:20 AM            26,614 eclipse_code.xml
> > > 10/24/2005  01:08 AM    <DIR>
> > >           Eudora
> > > 06/24/2005  08:50 PM               667 fake_oosums.ads
> > > 06/24/2005  08:50 PM               695 fake_oosums.ali
> > > 09/06/2005  09:01 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Genealogy
> > > 07/13/2005  10:56 PM    <DIR>
> > >           HomeSite
> > > 05/08/2005  01:05 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Investing
> > > 10/21/2005  10:04 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Java Progs
> > > 08/04/2005  10:13 PM               162 main.py
> > > 10/11/2005  10:43 PM    <DIR>
> > >           My Downloads
> > > 05/01/2005  10:31 AM    <DIR>
> > >           My eBooks
> > > 04/22/2005  12:09 AM    <DIR>
> > >           My Music
> > > 07/10/2005  11:43 AM    <DIR>
> > >           My Pictures
> > > 06/29/2005  11:55 PM    <DIR>
> > >           My PSP Files
> > > 05/23/2005  09:30 AM    <DIR>
> > >           My Videos
> > > 05/01/2005  12:49 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Office Documents
> > > 06/27/2005  03:19 PM         7,961,778
> > > org.eclipse.jdt.doc.user.I20050627-1435.pdf
> > > 06/27/2005  03:19 PM         6,791,109
> > > org.eclipse.platform.doc.user.I20050627-1435.pdf
> > > 10/11/2005  10:52 PM                56 oth_tsr_rm_750.ram
> > > 07/20/2005  09:32 AM           108,457 parkerred15yc.jpg
> > > 09/03/2005  10:36 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Python Progs
> > > 10/20/2005  10:38 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Quicken
> > > 07/10/2005  12:09 PM         3,356,248 results.xml
> > > 06/11/2005  12:03 PM               935 Scout_Ship Database.lnk
> > > 07/03/2005  12:38 PM    <DIR>
> > >           Scout_Ship My Documents
> > > 10/24/2005  09:23 AM               971 Script1.py
> > > 09/25/2005  12:40 PM             1,107 Script1_old.py
> > > 08/28/2005  11:47 AM    <DIR>
> > >           SimpleMu Logs
> > > 06/24/2005  08:56 PM             1,201 student_pack.ads
> > > 06/24/2005  08:49 PM             1,144 student_pack.ads.0
> > > 06/24/2005  08:56 PM             1,342 student_pack.ali
> > > 08/02/2005  11:39 PM             4,096 t.DOC
> > > 06/20/2005  10:11 AM               104 t.rx
> > > 08/05/2005  08:41 PM            66,452 Untitled-1.tif
> > > 08/05/2005  08:41 PM    <DIR>
> > >           VCheck
> > > 10/03/2005  02:58 AM    <DIR>
> > >           Visual Studio
> > > 10/03/2005  02:51 AM    <DIR>
> > >           Visual Studio 2005
> > >               21 File(s)     18,847,490 bytes
> > >               25 Dir(s)  267,162,845,184 bytes free
> > >
> > > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> > > **** END of captured output
> > >
> > > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> > >
> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > >
> > > 	Note that my "getLine()" has to return on either a real EOL, OR on
> > > the end of a command prompt ("stuff>"). I also had to initialize the
> > > prompt at the start. If someone issued a "cd" command to the subprocess,
> > > the prompt would be all out of sequence, and the code would hang.
> > >
> > > 	You'll also note that the prompt /ends/ a capture sequence, and the
> > > next command is the start of the /next/ capture sequence.
> > >
> > > --
> > >  > ============================================================== <
> > >  >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
> > >  >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
> > >  > ============================================================== <
> > >  >           Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/>            <
> > >  >        Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/>        <



From saint.infidel at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 12:16:57 2005
From: saint.infidel at gmail.com (infidel)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 09:16:57 -0700
Subject: xml-rpc - adodb - None type - DateTime type
In-Reply-To: <1130504075.327403.236240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130504075.327403.236240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130516217.672739.218850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> I can replace all None values with the string 'Null', there's no
> problem, but I can't detect the DateTime type object I retrieve from
> the database.
>
> I have something like this:
> def xmlrpc_function():
>     conn = adodb.NewADOConnection('postgres')
>     conn.Connect(host,user,password,database)
>     rs = conn.Exec("select * from table")
>     result = []
>     i = 0
>     while not rs.EOF:
>         row = rs.GetRowAssoc(False)
>         for key, value in row.items():
>             if value==None:
>                 row[key]='Null'
>         result.append(row)
>         i = i + 1
>         rs.MoveNext()
>     rs.Close()
>
>     print result
>     return result
>
> The problem here is that if row[key] == <type 'DateTime' object
> etc...>, then I don't know what to do for detect it and make the
> appropriate change to string.
>
> Console output:
> [{'name': 'Null', 'date': <DateTime object for '2005-09-01 00:00:00.00'
> at 1515f60>}]
>
> If you consult the python manual, you'll see that there's no 'DateTime'
> type object, so I can't do something like:
>
> if value==DateTimeType:
>     ...
>
> I only need to know which type of data is a field for make the change
> according to what can I pass through the xml-rpc.

Well, there is the possibility of passing null values through xml-rpc.
I believe there is an optional keyword argument in some of the
xmlrpclib functions to allow it.  Basically it translates None to
<nil/> in the xml.

The DateTime type must be defined somewhere.  Is it an adodb type?  If
so, you could do something like this:

if type(value) == adodb.DateTime:
    ...



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 09:05:20 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:05:20 GMT
Subject: http/urlib pos/get question (newbie)
References: <T2V5f.3000$dO2.977@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <kI56f.3068$dO2.2670@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

I have found what I needed ... in one of my books :E)

regards,
Philippe


Philippe C. Martin wrote:

> Hi,
> (I am _very_ new to web programming)
> 
> I am writing a client module (browser plugin) and server module (Python
> CGI) that need to exchange information.
> 
> I want the transaction to be intiated when the client accesses the link.
> 
> I need data  to go back and forth between the client and the server (cgi
> script) with no impact on what the browser shows.
> 
> In the end (when I get the above to work), the server will say OK and the
> actual page will appear or NOK and an ERROR page will appear.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty clear (I think) as to what to do on the javascript (client)
> side (XMLHttp) but am not certain if my cgi script must "urlib.open" its
> own link in order to open the pipe on its side (there'll be some HTML
> GET/POST tag I assume but where is the pipe/socket ?)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Philippe



From dr.addn at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 05:11:43 2005
From: dr.addn at gmail.com (adDoc's networker Phil)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 02:11:43 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <incb13-otn.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net> <incb13-otn.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <8fd4a2fe0510050211q1b1afba9l88fa2e4bcf256c30@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.us> wrote:
>
>
> Python IS "a dot net language" <URL: http://ironpython.com/ >.
>


. that is the site it was born at;
but microsoft has actively adopted it here:

IronPython 0.9.2 (9/22/2005)
[@]
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2C649E9E-CF43-41E0-9E22-6E6438924CAA&displaylang=en#additionalInfo

Overview
IronPython is the codename for an alpha release
of the Python programming language for the .NET platform.
It supports an interactive interpreter with fully dynamic compilation
. It is well integrated with the rest of the framework
and makes all .NET libraries easily available to Python programmers.

. the active dev site
[@]
http://www.gotdotnet.com/workspaces/workspace.aspx?id=ad7acff7-ab1e-4bcb-99c0-57ac5a3a9742

. the IronPython mailing list
[@] http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com

--
American Dream Documents
http://www.geocities.com/amerdreamdocs/home/
"(real opportunity starts with real documentation)
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From max at alcyone.com  Tue Oct 18 21:40:05 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:40:05 -0700
Subject: how best to split into singleton and sequence
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2235.1129675000.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2235.1129675000.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Va6dnUMa-o1oPsjenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

Randy Bush wrote:

> so, i imagine what is happening is the lhs, t,l, is really
> (t, (l)), i.e. only two items.
> 
> so how should i have done this readably and simply?

Your question isn't at all clear.  You're trying to assign a 4-element 
tuple to two elements.  That generates a ValueError.

Did you want to only split once at most?  Then it's s.split('|', 1). 
Did you want to assign the first element to the first variable and the 
rest to the next?  Then it's x = s.split('|'); a, b = x[0], x[1:].

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   It's funny when you think about it / How coincidence rules
   -- Anggun


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 10:35:52 2005
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Luis M. Gonzalez)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 07:35:52 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128436552.877409.296480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you read again my comment, I said "almost" an static version of
Python for .NET.
That means that it's not a Python implementation, but another language.
It takes a lot from python though, and it is aknowledeged by its
creator in the first paragraph of its homepage.

And if you still feel the need to argue, please don't do it with me, do
it with Guido Van Rossum himself, who said that Boo is 95% Python, but
statically typed...
http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2005/01/amazon_devcon_g_5.html
Although he makes clear that he doesn't want python to become Boo.

So, we can safely say that Boo is "almost" a static python
implementation. Wether you like or not, is another problem, but please,
do not insist with your reiterative anti-boo ranting.

I'm not a Boo evangelist and I don't think I'm perpetuating any
"nonsense". I just made a simple comment in reply to an specific
question, and I think this comment is very pertinent.



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 30 03:51:39 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:51:39 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4363f91d$0$2089$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <dk1u0j$m30$04$1@news.t-online.com>

David Rasmussen wrote:

> None of the solutions presented in this thread is nearly as fast as the
> 
> print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")
 
Have you already timed Scott David Daniel's approach with a /large/
blocksize? It looks promising.

Peter


From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 03:35:36 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:35:36 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> if you want to know why 100 is a reasonable and non-random choice, I
> suggest checking the RE documentation for "99 groups" and the special
> meaning of group 0.

I have read everything I found about Python regular expressions. But I
am not able to understand what you mean. What is so special about 99?



From hauck at gseos.com  Tue Oct 25 14:30:49 2005
From: hauck at gseos.com (Tommytrojan)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:30:49 -0700
Subject: Weird import behavior
In-Reply-To: <Xns96FABB2481DB9duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <1130260282.027302.49370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96FABB2481DB9duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1130265049.927710.155050@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Duncan,

thanks for your quick reply. I guess I should have included the output.
I thought I was clear in the error description.
The problem is that I never assign to 'string'. I only reference it (as
the error message correctly states). If you comment out the import
statement in the except clause the program runs fine. Now notice that
the exception hander never gets executed! Any explanation?



From nil at dev.nul  Sun Oct 16 08:41:06 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:41:06 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote in message
news:cTp4f.16180$ae.11317 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Christian Stapfer wrote:
>
>> This discussion begins to sound like the recurring
>> arguments one hears between theoretical and
>> experimental physicists. Experimentalists tend
>> to overrate the importance of experimental data
>> (setting up a useful experiment, how to interpret
>> the experimental data one then gathers, and whether
>> one stands any chance of detecting systematic errors
>> of measurement, all depend on having a good *theory*
>> in the first place). Theoreticians, on the other hand,
>> tend to overrate the importance of the coherence of
>> theories. In truth, *both* are needed: good theories
>> *and* carefully collected experimental data.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Christian
>
> An interesting parallel can be made concerning management of production vs
> management of creativity.
>
> In general, production needs checks and feedback to insure quality, but
> will often come to a stand still if incomplete resources are available.
>
> Where as creativity needs checks to insure production, but in many cases
> can still be productive even with incomplete or questionable resources.
> The quality may very quite a bit in both directions, but in creative
> tasks, that is to be expected.
>
> In many ways programmers are a mixture of these two.  I think I and Steven
> use a style that is closer to the creative approach. I get the feeling
> your background may be closer to the production style.

This diagnosis reminds me of C.G. Jung, the psychologist,
who, after having introduced the concepts of extra- and
introversion, came to the conclusion that Freud was
an extravert whereas Adler an introvert. The point is
that he got it exactly wrong...

 As to the value of complexity theory for creativity
in programming (even though you seem to believe that
a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
creativity), the story of the discovery of an efficient
string searching algorithm by D.E.Knuth provides an
interesting case in point. Knuth based himself on
seemingly quite "uncreatively theoretical work" (from
*your* point of view) that gave a *better* value for
the computuational complexity of string searching
than any of the then known algorithms could provide.

Regards,
Christian
-- 
?It is no paradox to say that in our most theoretical
 moods we may be nearest to our most practical applications.?
 - Alfred North Whitehead

[and those "practical applications" will likely be most
 "creative" ones..]




From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 14:36:51 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 11:36:51 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <die0mh$4ts$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<die0mh$4ts$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1128969410.983804.248920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I think you said the same as me:
Client:
Password = "password"
h = Hash(Password)
h is "GddTHww90lze7vnmxG" (whatever)

Sends h over the network to the server.

h is a string, so this approach is simply vulnerable.

SRP seems to be very good, but because I don't know it well, I think
I'll delay it for a while.

Thank you



From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 17 01:36:53 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:36:53 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Tor Iver Wilhelmsen" <jadedgamer at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ufyr1990k.fsf at hotmail.com...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     How is that better? Nothing in your car depends upon what tires you 
>> have
>> on. But all of the rest of the software on your computer is dependent 
>> upon
>> your choice of OS.

> Which cars let you install another engine as easily as you can install
> a new operating system? Admit the analogy sucks, like all car-computer
> analogies invariably do.

    What? If you install a new operating system, all your existing software 
stops working. You would encounter precisely analogous problems if you 
replaced your car's engine. The transmission might no longer fit, for 
example. I'm not sure why this analogy matters, but it does seem to be 
pretty accurate.

>>     I don't really know why and I don't particularly care. I think it has 
>> a
>> lot to do with support costs and may also have to do with the type of 
>> deals
>> Microsoft offers.

> Microsoft apologists always assume that training cost for Windows
> users are zero, that people "know" Windows from the start. If that was
> true, there would not be a multi-million market in Windows user
> support.

    I neither said nor assumed that. The fact is, they have to support 
Windows because it's what most of their users want. So whatever that costs, 
they have to pay it. I think it's pretty low, actually, only because their 
solution to any problem is to reinstall. Yes, that works, but it does kind 
of screw over the user.

    On the other hand, supporting Linux is not something they have to do to 
stay competitive. The market for Linux desktops is small. It's better served 
by niche companies that can grab a larger share of the smaller market.

>>     The point is, they do. And there's nothing unusual, immoral, or
>> problemmatic about it. If you don't think the total package is worth the
>> total package price, buy elsewhere.

> But when Microsoft were doing their illegal arm-wringing of dealers,
> there was no "elsewhere" to go.

    There were always other places to go. There was never a time in this 
story when you couldn't buy computer components, without an OS, and put 
together your own computer.

    As for it being illegal, it was illegal only because if was Microsoft 
doing it. There's nothing illegal about a car dealer not selling a car 
without an engine. And the only reason it was illegal for Microsoft was 
because Microsoft was deemed to have a monopoly, and the only reason they 
were deemed to have a monopoly (well, not the only, but a major reason) was 
that the market was defined as "desktop operating systems for x86 
computers".

    DS




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 20:48:15 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:48:15 GMT
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
	<1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<q5psl1dgpmjrui33rn193a4h7pilkcf4i0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <435ec58d.961797972@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:32:28 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On 25 Oct 2005 05:22:20 -0700, "jas" <codecraig at gmail.com> declaimed the
>following in comp.lang.python:
>
>> So it seems there is no good way to handle "interactive" processes on
>> windows using python.  By interactive I mean processes/commands that
>> require user interaction, such as telnet or del (to delete a file or
>> directory sometimes you need to confirm with a yes or no), date, etc.
>>
>	telnetlib includes an "expect" method... 
> 
>> os.system gives the exact behavior, but you can't redirec the output.
>> pexpect isn't supported on windows.  Even with subprocess you can't
>> handle all/most cases..since you have to do things like look for he
>> prompt.
>
>	That applies to any OS... If you have no IPC signalling mechanism
>that the other process has completed an output phase and is now waiting
>for input, you must scan for whatever is the "current" prompt. Even an
>"expect" module is "expecting" to find something you had to specify in
>advance.
>
>	Heck... How do YOU recognize that an application running in a
>command window is waiting for input?
>
>	I suspect you do it by reading the output text and recognizing that
>the cursor is on a line that looks like a prompt. The main difference is
>that you have cognitive understanding of what IS the prompt, and can
>recognize the differences between, say an [abort, retry, exit] prompt
>and c:\junk> prompt. To programmatically handle this situation, you have
>to code the logic to recognize the two possible prompts.
>
If I were going to do something on windows, I think I would look at
creating a cmd.exe process and see if I could get ahold of its console
by way of the windows console-related api, or I might try to write a limited
shell of my own, but I'm not going to do it just for fun ;-)

NT and descendants have all sorts of stuff for waiting for things
and communicating etc. if you want to get down to the raw stuff, e.g.,
----
    GetQueuedCompletionStatus QuickInfo Overview Group

    The GetQueuedCompletionStatus function attempts to dequeue
    an I/O completion packet from a specified input/output
    completion port. If there is no completion packet queued,
    the function waits for a pending input/output operation
    associated with the completion port to complete. The
    function returns when it can dequeue a completion packet, or
    optionally when the function times out. If the function
    returns because of an I/O operation completion, it sets
    several variables that provide information about the
    operation.

    BOOL GetQueuedCompletionStatus(

    HANDLE CompletionPort, // the I/O completion port of
    interest LPDWORD lpNumberOfBytesTransferred, // to receive
    number of bytes transferred during I/O LPDWORD
    lpCompletionKey, // to receive file's completion key
    LPOVERLAPPED * lpOverlapped, // to receive pointer to
    OVERLAPPED structure DWORD dwMilliseconds // optional
    timeout value );

    Parameters

    CompletionPort

    Handle to the input/output completion port of interest. Use
    the CreateIoCompletionPort function to create I/O completion
    ports.

    lpNumberOfBytesTransferred

    Points to a variable that the function sets to the number of
    bytes transferred during an I/O operation that has completed
    and is causing the function to return.

    lpCompletionKey

    Points to a variable that the function sets to the
    completion key value associated with the file handle whose
    I/O operation has completed and is causing the function to
    return. A completion key is a per-file key that is specified
    in a call to CreateIoCompletionPort.

    lpOverlapped

    Points to a variable that the function sets to the address
    of the OVERLAPPED structure that was specified when an
    input/output operation that has completed was started. The
    following functions can be used to start input/output
    operations that complete using I/O completion ports. You
    must pass the function an OVERLAPPED structure and a file
    handle associated (by a call to CreateIoCompletionPort) with
    an I/O completion port to invoke the I/O completion port
    mechanism:

    ? ConnectNamedPipe ? DeviceIoControl ? LockFileEx ? ReadFile
    ? TransactNamedPipe ? WaitCommEvent ? WriteFile

    Even if both of the preceding conditions (passing the
    function a file handle associated with a completion port and
    a valid OVERLAPPED structure) are met, an application can
    prevent completion port notification. To do this, specify a
    valid event handle for the hEvent member of the OVERLAPPED
    structure, and set the low order bit of that event handle. A
    valid event handle whose low order bit is set keeps I/O
    completion from being queued to the completion port.

    dwMilliseconds

    Specifies the number of milliseconds that the caller is
    willing to wait for an input/output completion packet to
    appear at the I/O completion port. If a completion packet
    doesn't appear within the specified time, the function times
    out, returns FALSE, and sets *lpOverlapped to NULL. Timing
    out is optional. If dwMilliseconds is -1, the function will
    never time out. If dwMilliseconds is zero and there is no
    I/O operation to dequeue, the function will timeout
    immediately.

    Return Value

    The GetQueuedCompletionStatus function's return value is
    TRUE if the function dequeues an I/O completion packet for a
    successful I/O operation from the completion port. The
    function stores valid values into the variables pointed to
    by lpNumberOfBytesTransferred, lpCompletionKey, and
    lpOverlapped. The function's return value is FALSE, and
    *lpOverlapped is set to NULL, if the function does not
    dequeue an I/O completion packet from the completion port.
    The function does not store valid values into the variables
    pointed to by lpNumberOfBytesTransferred and
    lpCompletionKey. To get extended error information, call
    GetLastError.

    The function's return value is FALSE, and *lpOverlapped is
    not NULL, if the function dequeues an I/O completion packet
    for a failed I/O operation from the completion port. The
    function stores valid values into the variables pointed to
    by lpNumberOfBytesTransferred, lpCompletionKey, and
    lpOverlapped. To get extended error information, call
    GetLastError.

    Remarks

    The Win32 I/O system can be instructed to send I/O
    completion notification packets to input/output completion
    ports, where they are queued up. The CreateIoCompletionPort
    function provides a mechanism for this. When you perform an
    input/output operation with a file handle that has an
    associated input/output completion port, the I/O system
    sends a completion notification packet to the completion
    port when the I/O operation completes. The I/O completion
    port places the completion packet in a first-in-first-out
    queue. The GetQueuedCompletionStatus function retrieves
    these queued I/O completion packets.

    A server application may have several threads calling
    GetQueuedCompletionStatus for the same completion port. As
    input operations complete, the operating system queues
    completion packets to the completion port. If threads are
    actively waiting in a call to this function, queued requests
    complete their call. You can call the
    PostQueuedCompletionStatus function to post an I/O
    completion packet to an I/O completion port. The I/O
    completion packet will satisfy an outstanding call to the
    GetQueuedCompletionStatus function.

    See Also

    ConnectNamedPipe, CreateIoCompletionPort, DeviceIoControl,
    LockFileEx, OVERLAPPED, ReadFile,
    PostQueuedCompletionStatus, TransactNamedPipe,
    WaitCommEvent, WriteFile,
----

And then there is the console stuff,

----
Following are the functions used to access a console. 

AllocConsole
CreateConsoleScreenBuffer
FillConsoleOutputAttribute
FillConsoleOutputCharacter
FlushConsoleInputBuffer
FreeConsole
GenerateConsoleCtrlEvent
GetConsoleCP
GetConsoleCursorInfo
GetConsoleMode
GetConsoleOutputCP
GetConsoleScreenBufferInfo
GetConsoleTitle
GetLargestConsoleWindowSize
GetNumberOfConsoleInputEvents
GetNumberOfConsoleMouseButtons
GetStdHandle
HandlerRoutine
PeekConsoleInput
ReadConsole
ReadConsoleInput
ReadConsoleOutput
ReadConsoleOutputAttribute
ReadConsoleOutputCharacter
ScrollConsoleScreenBuffer
SetConsoleActiveScreenBuffer
SetConsoleCP
SetConsoleCtrlHandler
SetConsoleCursorInfo
SetConsoleCursorPosition
SetConsoleMode
SetConsoleOutputCP
SetConsoleScreenBufferSize
SetConsoleTextAttribute
SetConsoleTitle
SetConsoleWindowInfo
SetStdHandle
WriteConsole
WriteConsoleInput
WriteConsoleOutput
WriteConsoleOutputAttribute
WriteConsoleOutputCharacter 
----
And that is a miniscule piece of it all.
For sychronizing, there ought to be something in:
---
Following are the functions used in synchronization. 

CreateEvent
CreateMutex
CreateSemaphore
DeleteCriticalSection
EnterCriticalSection
GetOverlappedResult
InitializeCriticalSection
InterlockedDecrement
InterlockedExchange
InterlockedIncrement
LeaveCriticalSection
MsgWaitForMultipleObjects
OpenEvent
OpenMutex
OpenSemaphore
PulseEvent
ReleaseMutex
ReleaseSemaphore
ResetEvent
SetEvent
WaitForMultipleObjects
WaitForMultipleObjectsEx
WaitForSingleObject
WaitForSingleObjectEx 

BTW, 
"""
The CreateFile function creates, opens, or truncates a file, pipe,
communications resource, disk device, or console. It returns a handle
that can be used to access the object. It can also open and return
a handle to a directory.
"""
So it seems likely someone has put together most of the pieces already,
just maybe not wrapped in a python API ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 11:59:43 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:59:43 -0600
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1h4xfdx.azxzrkhr5xukN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<1h4xfdx.azxzrkhr5xukN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9vmdnZBDS6NwmcDeRVn-3w@comcast.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>>>    class Base(object)
>>>        def getFoo(self): ...
>>>        def setFoo(self): ...
>>>        foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
>>>
>>>    class Derived(Base):
>>>        def getFoo(self): ....
>>
[snip]
> the solution, in Python 2.4 and earlier, is to use
> one extra level of indirection:
>     def __getFoo(self): return self.getFoo()
>     def getFoo(self): ...
>     foo = property(__getFoo)
> so the name lookup for 'getFoo' on self happens when you access s.foo
> (for s being an instance of this here-sketched class) and overriding
> works just as expected.

Another solution (for those of you scoring at home) would be to use a 
property-like descriptor that delays the name lookup until the time of 
the method call, e.g.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/442418
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/408713

STeVe


From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct  8 15:55:54 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:55:54 -0000
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11kg92ams62oo9f@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-08, csheppard91 at gmail.com <csheppard91 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've launched a new forum not too long ago, and I invite you all to go
> there: www.wizardsolutionsusa.com (click on the forum link).  We offer
> all kinds of help, and for those of you who just like to talk, there's
> a chit chat section just for you...Just remember that forum
> communication is much easier, safer, and faster.

I disagree 100% with that last assertion.  Usenet is much,
much, easier, safer and faster.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  BARRY... That was
                                  at               the most HEART-WARMING
                               visi.com            rendition of "I DID IT
                                                   MYWAY" I've ever heard!!


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 23:18:48 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:18:48 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.16.18.22.16.941081@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1E2FAE4054castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:57:19 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> As soon as products can't evolve 
>> much more, the producers will find ways to make them even better 
>> compared to last week.
> 
> So once a product can't evolve any more, then it will suddenly
> start evolving much more.
> 
> Riiiiight.

Yup, maybe you should do some shopping instead of letting others do it for 
you. And you will notice that almost every X months the cookies of brand X 
are just improved a bit more.

> Well, I think that's just demonstrated the quality of John's reasoning
> ability. 

I am sorry if it's all beyond you.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Oct 25 11:10:39 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:10:39 -0500
Subject: [OT] Re: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <200510241904.52917.bulliver@badcomputer.org>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org> <djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510241904.52917.bulliver@badcomputer.org>
Message-ID: <200510251010.39092.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 24 October 2005 09:04 pm, darren kirby wrote:
> quoth the Fredrik Lundh:
> > (using either on the output from glob.glob is just plain silly, of course)
> 
> Silly? Sure. os.listdir() is more on point. Never said I was the smartest. 
> However, I will defend my post by pointing out that at the time it was the 
> only one that actually included code that did what the OP wanted.

I think Mr. Lundh's point was only that the output from glob.glob is already
guaranteed to be strings, so using either '%s'%f or str(f) is superfluous.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  3 23:10:22 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 20:10:22 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
Message-ID: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am developing a program for a client.  She runs a shop where her
clients bring in items for sale or short term buyback.  Development of
the program has been going great but she's mentioned that there is a
'feature' coming up in the next couple of weeks that she'd like me to
implement that has me a bit worried.

My client has told me a story of how she hired someone from a competing
store and that person had brought a copy of the program her competition
was using to track clients and transactions.  He couldn't demonstrate
the program for one reason or another because it was protected in a way
that neither could circumvent. (She didn't remember how it was
protected, she had hired this person a long time ago.)

Now that I'm three months into the development of this program, my
client tells me she would like to protect her investment by preventing
her employees from doing the same to her.  (Going to the competition
and using her program.)

What my client cannot prevent:
- access to the .exe

What my client is looking to prevent:
- running of the exe by un-authorized individuals.

Ideas I've had to prevent someone from running the app:
- ask for a password every time the program is run. (I wonder how
quickly they will complain about this, not very secure once everyone
eventually finds out what the password is)
- make a little hardware dongle and check to see if it's on the
parallel port. (old idea)
- check for an encrypted flash drive and try to read an encrypted file
from it. (new idea)
- buy the client a Microsoft Fingerprint Keyboard and figure out if it
will make the clients life easier (two minutes of research showed this
idea has multiple problems)

What I want:
- the simplest thing that could possibly work!

I guess my problem isn't really a python problem.  This is a scenario
that any developer in any language might face where an executable
should only be run by approved individuals.

c.l.p searches I've tried:
'protecting code' - details how to make python files 'unreadable'
'preventing execution' - best one here details encrypting a root
password

Thanks



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Mon Oct 31 09:13:26 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:13:26 -0600
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>
	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2713.1130709910.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3smn47FoolfbU1@individual.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
...
>>>>gc.garbage
> 
> [<__main__.a object at 0x64cf0>, <__main__.b object at 0x58510>]
> 
> So, no big deal -- run a gc.collect() and parse through gc.garbage for
> any instances of your "wrapper of file" class, and you'll find ones that
> were forgotten as part of a cyclic garbage loop and you can check
> whether they were explicitly closed or not.
> 
> 
> Alex

Since everyone needs this, how about building it in such that files 
which are closed by the runtime, and not user code, are reported or 
queryable?  Perhaps a command line switch to either invoke or suppress 
reporting them on exit.

Is there any facility for another program to peer into the state of a 
Python program?  Would this be a security problem?


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 17:17:28 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:17:28 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
Message-ID: <dj91h6$rju$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Jaffe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to 
> store global state information for all instances of a class. These are 
> set by a classmethod as in the following (in reality the setcvar method 
> is more complicated than this!):
> 
> class sup(object):
>      cvar1 = None
>      cvar2 = None
> 
>      @classmethod
>      def setcvar1(cls, val):
>          cls.cvar1 = val
> 
>      @classmethod
>      def setcvar2(cls, val):
>          cls.cvar2 = val
> 
>      @classmethod
>      def printcvars(cls):
> 	print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
> 
> 
> I can then call setcvar on either instances of the class or the class 
> itself.
> 
> Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I 
> override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this 
> class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:
> 
> class sub(sup):
>      cvar1a = None
> 
>      @classmethod
>      def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
>          cls.cvar1a = vala
>          sup.setcvar1(val)
> 
>      @classmethod
>      def printcvars(cls):
>          print cls.cvar1a
>          sup.printcvars()
> 
> This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.
> 
> However, if  I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call 
> sub.setcvar2(val) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no 
> longer identical to sup.cvar1!
> 
> In particular,
>      sub.setcvar1(1,10)
>      sub.setcvar2(2)
>      sub.printcvars()
> prints
>    10
>    1 None
> 
> i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
> but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None
> 
> since sup.cvar2 has never been set, and this is what sup.printcvars() 
> looks for.
> 
> This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?
> 
> For my application, at least, I think the problem really comes in the 
> printcvars method: is there any way to call the overridden 
> sup.printcvars() but with, effectively, cls=sub?
> 
> Thanks for reading this far!
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This seems like a bug
> 
> Is this expected behavior, or a bug (or both -- it is expected but 
> probably not what is wanted!)?

You are experiencing this problem because you are using hard-wired class 
names. Try using (for example) self.__class__. That way, even if your 
method is inheroted by a subclass it will use the class of the object it 
finds itself a method of. No need to use classmethods.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  7 10:33:22 2005
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (alainpoint at yahoo.fr)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:33:22 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128694740.418262.95470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1128694740.418262.95470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

In fact, i want to sort the list based on the 'allocated attribute' and
at the same time, test membership based on the id attribute.
__cmp__ logically implies an ordering test, not an identity test. These
two notions seems to be confounded in python which is unfortunate. Two
objects could have the same rank while still being different.
Alain



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:32:30 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:32:30 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.32.29.354611@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 00:03:05 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> Now, if you want to get into a big huff because someone you knows use a 
> font that is "slightly oversized" because of Windows, then I think you 
> missed the point of the email altogether, which was probably to convey a 
> message.

Talk about missing the point, pun intended. The point isn't that there is
some tiny difference in font sizes. It is that small font sizes which are
just readable under Windows are unreadably small on Linux and Mac.

If you want to convey a message, it helps if the recipient can actually
read the damn thing without having to get out a magnifying glass.


-- 
Steven.



From malvert at telenet.be  Wed Oct 12 09:28:33 2005
From: malvert at telenet.be (malv)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:28:33 -0700
Subject: searching python/gui developper in germany
References: <digkov$63h$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
Message-ID: <1129123713.193715.60780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hans Georg Krauthaeuser wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> for the measurements in our labs we have developed python scripts that
> are pretty fine for our needs. Basically, we have classes and call the
> appropriate methods from the command line (or by other scripts). So, we
> don't have any GUI.
>
> Now, an external customer want to use our software and -- as you can
> imagine -- we want a pretty GUI.
>
> So, we are looking for someone who can develop such a pretty GUI for us
> (of course for money). OS is Windows (XP). We are not fixed to a special
> toolkit -- it just should look nice and do the job.
>
> Best would be someone from our region (Magdeburg, Germany).
>
> If someone is interested: contact me by email, please.
>
> Best regards
> Hans Georg Krauthaeuser
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
If you run SuSE9.3 or SuSE 10.0, everything is there. Simply install
eric or eric3.
There is also a great gui design utility in the installation.
You'll be going in no time.
malv



From paniq at paniq-dot-org.no-spam.invalid  Sat Oct 15 09:10:08 2005
From: paniq at paniq-dot-org.no-spam.invalid (paniq)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 13:10:08 GMT
Subject: p2exe using wine/cxoffice
References: <mailman.327.1126647088.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4350ffb0$0$52182$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>

the problem you have comes from a badly wrapped imagehlp. 

i could solve it by starting winecfg (distributed with recent wine
releases) and adding imagehlp as native,builtin. 

of course you need a native dll to get this working.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 03:29:34 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:29:34 +0200
Subject: Help needed in OOP-Python
References: <c293dd340510042234s74a4db47x85bdd5658a1ad803@mail.gmail.com><dhvpto$o0q$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c293dd340510042323o14db7dcdn43b7f21c376b2e48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dhvvd0$5dh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Toufeeq Hussain wrote:

> My coding is really really bad,that's why I changed the names to more human
> readable form(Module1,2.. etc).

the problem is that when you do that (and post using a tool that's not
smart enough to preserve leading whitespace), anyone who wants to help
will basically have to recreate your program -- and once they've done that,
chances are that they won't get the same error as you do.

consider this:

$ python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 1, in ?
    import module3
  File "module3.py", line 4, in ?
    class Option1_Rule1(declaration.Option1):
NameError: name 'declaration' is not defined

oops. looks like you forgot to rename something.  that's easy to fix.

$ python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 3, in ?
    Test_Case = module3.Option1_Rule1()
  File "module3.py", line 6, in __init__
    module2.Option1.__init__(self)
  File "module2.py", line 5, in __init__
    module1.OptionClass.__init__('Blah Blah','OR0001','0000','0000')
TypeError: unbound method __init__() must be called with OptionClass instance as
 first argument (got str instance instead)

aha. that sure looks like a bug.  when you call the baseclass init method,
you must pass in the object instance as the first argument.  that's easy to
fix.

$ python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 4, in ?
    Test_Case.Option1_constraint()
AttributeError: Option1_Rule1 instance has no attribute 'Option1_constraint'

oops. looks like I got the indentation wrong when I fixed up that module.
that's easy to fix.

$ python test.py
condition satisfied
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 4, in ?
    Test_Case.Option1_constraint()
  File "module3.py", line 11, in Option1_constraint
    self.FOO_warning.Fire()
AttributeError: Option1_Rule1 instance has no attribute 'FOO_warning'

FOO_warning?  there's no FOO_warning anywhere in the code.

:::

so, after four attempts, I've found four problems, three of which was present
in your posted code, but I still haven't seen the problem you reported:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_case.py", line 7, in ?
    TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()
  File "constraint.py", line 13, in __init__
    declaration.Option1.__init__(self)
    TypeError: __init__() takes no arguments (1 given)

which, in itself, looks like you've forgotten the self argument in some init
method somewhere (but the code you posted doesn't have that problem).

if you want to post code, 1) try to reduce the problem to as little code as you
possibly can, and 2) make sure that the code you post really has the problem
you're seeing... (i.e. run it at least once before you post it)

</F>





From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  7 10:18:21 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:18:21 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11kd0td8spouu96@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, DaveM <asma61 at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>>For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the
>>subject consists of more than one person.  Sports teams,
>>government departments, states, corporations etc. are 
>>grammatically plural.  In American, the verb agrees with the
>>word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by
>>that word.
>>
>>In sports (thats "sport" for you Brits):
>
> Yes.
>
>> American: Minnesota is behind 7-0.  The Vikings are behind 7-0.
>>  British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0.
>
> True.
>
>>In politics:
>
>>  American: The war department has decided to cancel the program.
>>   British: The war department have decided to cancel the program.
>
> Not sure about this one. They may be used interchangeably as neither strikes
> me as sounding "odd".

It could be that both are used in British English and I only
notice the "have" usage.  In US English it's always "has"
because "deptartment" is considered singular:

"departement has" and "departements have"

For some reason I find this sort of thing fascinating enough to
have download the entire "story of English" series off Usenet...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! Now we can
                                  at               become alcoholics!
                               visi.com            


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Wed Oct 12 15:53:37 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:53:37 -0400
Subject: Force flushing buffers
References: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<mailman.1645.1128643049.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434d699f$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

skip at pobox.com wrote:

> 
>     Madhusudan> How do I flush the buffer and force python to write the
>     Madhusudan> buffers to the files ? I intend to put this inside the
>     loop.
> 
> f = open("somefile", "w")
> f.write("foo")
> f.flush()
> 
> Skip

Thanks !!


From dudufigueiredo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:06:45 2005
From: dudufigueiredo at gmail.com (dudufigueiredo at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 12:06:45 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2744.1130787080.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2744.1130787080.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130789205.862429.10090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Micah, thanks a lot,
but my focus is to learn how to acess a folder and rename all files in
this folder.

Somyhing like this:
def renamer(folder, band):
        folder = #place to act
        archive = #file to transform
        rest = archive[3:]
        print band + " -", rest.capitalize()

And than just do this:

        renamer('C:\My Shared Folder\Rubber Soul', 'The Beatles')

And than pyhton alter all files in my folder. Is it possible?

I'm a beginer, for now, i just want to let the spaces and apostrophes
as they are...



From sxn02 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 15:20:10 2005
From: sxn02 at yahoo.com (Sori Schwimmer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:20:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
Message-ID: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I have Python 2.4.1 and have downloaded 2.4.2. Is
there a way to avoid installing everything and,
instead, just upgrade?

Thanks,
Sorin


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 01:49:02 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 07:49:02 +0200
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no>
	<Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net><dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no><mailman.1300.1128116615.509.python-list@python.org><433e7898$0$49766$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net><mailman.1392.1128360722.509.python-list@python.org><43417009$0$15070$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<GuydnSatM5XoVNzenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <dht54g$2tn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Sorry, but this defense is less than weak.  Using "python
> socketmodule.c" you actually get the right answer as the third result,
> while with the even-more-obvious-to-a-rookie "socketmodule.c" you get it
> as the *first* result.

using just "python" gives you a link to the source code download page as
part of the first result.

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 24 15:15:48 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:15:48 +0100
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <200510241159.53032.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<djigpr$oaf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510241159.53032.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <djjbt5$t5t$1@sea.gmane.org>

James Stroud wrote:
> On Monday 24 October 2005 04:33, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Well in that case it's time to declare Principia Mathematica obsolete.
>>The real numbers are a two-dimensional field, and you are proposing to
>>define an ordering for it.
> 
> 
> I wasn't a math major, but don't you mean "the complex numbers are a two 
> dimensional field"?
> 
Correct.

 > If you mean real numbers, please do explain.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 13:36:29 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim G)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 10:36:29 -0700
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <br1cmjrd.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.2602.1130336694.509.python-list@python.org>
	<br1cmjrd.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <1130348189.729657.311500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> FYI, if you don't know this already: You also can resize the console without
> going through the properties menu with 'mode con cols=... lines=...'.

Good grief! I haven't used "mode con" in years; forgotten
it even existed! Thanks for bringing that back, Thomas.

TJG



From albalmer at att.net  Mon Oct 10 12:55:20 2005
From: albalmer at att.net (Alan Balmer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:55:20 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <f07lk1l0l6699pc20cdde82noo80e69k7r@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 00:03:05 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
<lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:

>In any case, html email is here to stay. Or perhaps I should remove html 
>and say "richly formatted", whatever that might mean in the future.
>
>But trying to keep your email world into a pure text-based 
>no-formatting-whatsoever world, that's a fantasy bubble that is bound to 
>burst, sooner rather than later.
>
>Deal with it.

And you're calling other people control freaks! 

Sorry to burst *your* bubble, but no one has to "deal with it." For
centuries, intelligent people have managed to convey information using
plain text, and they'll manage for the foreseeable future.

I'm surprised that you can bring yourself to write articles in such a
humble venue as Usenet.
-- 
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis at att.net


From petr at tpc.cz  Tue Oct 18 17:55:48 2005
From: petr at tpc.cz (McBooCzech)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 14:55:48 -0700
Subject: Dealing with Excel
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129672548.082627.35180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Robert Hicks wrote:
> I need to pull data out of Oracle and stuff it into an Excel
> spreadsheet. What modules have you used to interface with Excel and
> would you recommend it?

It is possible to control Excel directly from the Python code (you do
not need to write Excel macros within the Excel). It works flawlessly
for me.

My code goes for example:
import win32api
from win32com.client import Dispatch
xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
xlApp.Visible=0
xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
.
.
=== snip ===

It is helpful to find values of VBA (Visual Basic for Applications)
constants on the Internet or in the Excel documentation and this
constants values assign as Python constants with the same names as in
VBA in the code. For example:

xlToLeft = 1
xlToRight = 2
xlUp = 3
xlDown = 4
xlThick = 4
xlThin = 2
xlEdgeBottom=9

Than you can use exactly the same code as in your Excel macros
(including formating etc.).
=== snip ===
xlApp.Range(xlApp.Selection, xlApp.Selection.End(xlToRight)).Select()
xlApp.Range(xlApp.Selection, xlApp.Selection.End(xlDown)).Select()
xlApp.Selection.NumberFormat = "# ##0"
xlApp.Selection.HorizontalAlignment = xlRight
xlApp.Selection.IndentLevel = 1
=== snip ===

HTH
Petr Jakes



From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 11:51:08 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:51:08 -0700
Subject: Tricky import question.
In-Reply-To: <1130253287.721535.322370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2546.1130249396.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130253287.721535.322370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130255468.174460.227300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

This worked ...

def my_import(name):
    mod = __import__(name)
    components = name.split('.')
    for comp in components[1:]:
        mod = getattr(mod, comp)
    return mod

for reasons given here...

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/lib/built-in-funcs.html



From fgeiger at datec.at  Sat Oct 15 03:11:17 2005
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:11:17 +0200
Subject: MS Word Outline -> reStructuredText script?
References: <1129319634.407351.27080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diq9tg$k9j$1@news.hispeed.ch>

Jim wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm using reStructuredText as a format for some group documentation,
> and often my co-workers take notes during meetings in Word's outline
> mode.  Does anyone already have a python script that will convert from
> Word (or the Open Office file format version of a word document) to
> reStructured Text?

Not a direct answer to your problem, but: Have a look at Leo! Leo is an
outstanding outliner, written in Python. I do all formatting with reST and
the convert it into LATEX and/or HTML. Everything's built in already,
either in Python or in Leo. Perhaps you can convert your co-workers using
Leo?

> 
> If not I've got a fun project ahead of me.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Jim

HTH
Franz GEIGER





From chris at kateandchris.net  Tue Oct 18 13:00:37 2005
From: chris at kateandchris.net (Chris Lambacher)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:00:37 -0400
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <slrndl1a35.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434f8a54$0$16641$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrndl1a35.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <20051018170037.GA27125@kateandchris.net>

The shell that comes with MSys (from the MinGW guys). Is pretty good, although
it does have a bit of a problem with stdout output before a process exits, ie
it will hold back output until the process exits.

As a bonus, the file system is a little more sane, and if you are interested
in compiling software that is not open source, you are not tied to the Cygwin
DLL which is GPLed.

I have given up on Cygwin in favour of the tools that come with MSys because
they seem slightly better suited to the windows environment.

-Chris

On Sat, Oct 15, 2005 at 08:45:17AM +0000, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:37:25 +0200, Christophe <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:
> > Kenneth McDonald a ?crit :
> >> For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP  (from 
> >> OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that  I can 
> ...
> >> Yes, I know that Cygwin is out there, but last I looked, they still  
> >> went through the Win command-line window, which imposes a lot of  
> >> restrictions.
> ...
> > Last time I checked, you could install a native win32gui version of rxvt 
> > with cygwin. This would give you a better terminal window than that 
> > crappy thing you get in XP.
> 
> Last time /I/ checked (two years ago or so) that rxvt looked nice enough,
> but was impossible to use in practice. I cannot remember /what/ the problem
> was -- possibly it was that it could only run CygWin-compiled commands, or
> something vital only worked with CygWin-compiled commands. Google probably
> knows more.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if this has improved since then, or if someone else
> has come up with a serious Win32 terminal. There is surely a need for one!
> 
> /Jorgen
> 
> -- 
>   // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
> \X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Oct 21 02:20:17 2005
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:20:17 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<vd1hl1lbk13k6jenpuvmc7l6fl73p6em2r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <A77618B80CDD2543B705C82B7665D9F9012B04A5@ex9.hostedexchange.local>

Tim Roberts wrote:
"grunar at gmail.com" <grunar at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >An Example:
> >
> >>>> import sqlstring
> >>>> model = sqlstring.TableFactory()
> >>>> print model.person
> >SELECT
> >person.*
> >FROM
> >[person] person
> 
> The [bracket] syntax is unique to Microsoft.
> Everyone else, including Microsoft SQL Server,
> uses "double quotes" to protect special characters
> in identifiers.

Except MySQL (at least 4.1), which uses backticks.
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/legal-names.html


Robert Brewer
System Architect
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org
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From belred at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 23:18:12 2005
From: belred at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:18:12 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <dj729j$3dc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Amol Vaidya wrote:
> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have been 
> debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. How do these compare and contrast 
> with one another, and what advantages does one language provide over the 
> other? I would like to consider as many opinions as I can on this matter 
> before I start studying either language in depth. Any help/comments are 
> greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. 
> 
> 

why don't you do what i did?  download ruby and spend a day or two reading 
"programming ruby" from www.ruby-lang.org/en.  the download python and spend a 
day or two reading the python tuturial from www.python.org.  they are very 
similar languages and it's going to come down to your personal perference.  for 
me personally, ruby did not fit in my brain and python did.  i used the "how 
many times did i have to flip back to a previous page in the manual/tutorial and 
reread a section" test.  with ruby, once i got about one third of the way 
through the manual, i had to constantly reread previous sections.  with python, 
not once did i need to reread a previous section.  therefore, python was the 
obvious choice for me.


bryan



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 07:49:55 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:49:55 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:okh133-n3l.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

> 3) there are plenty of other OSs that are developed or could be
> developed but which cannot get a foothold or even manage to be put on
> the shelves because the majority product producer insists on charging
> hardware manufacturers for every box produced, whether or not it carries
> their o/s, and does other nasty things like sabotaging their own
> products so they won't work with a clone o/s.

    How could he resell an OS that "could be developed"? If nobody wants 
these operating systems, then it doesn't hurt him not to be able to sell 
them. If people want them, then he could have shown Microsoft the door.

    You are responding to an argument that was specifically about the effect 
of this particular arrangement on this particular business. This third case 
was not one that he could find himself in. In fact, it's case 1 for him.

> Sorry - that's not legal, fair, just, or good for the market. It means
> that anybody with a 51% share of the market automatically gets 100%.

    That's just absolutely absurd. If some OS had 51% of the market, plenty 
of other distributors and manufacturers would gladly take other 49%.

> Stop this apologism now.

    "Apologism"?

    Merriam-Webster says: "The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. 
Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to 
the right."

    Dictionary.com says: "No entry found for apologism."

    Fortunately I finally found what you mean, from 
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/a/ap/apologism.htm which says:

Apologism is the metaphysical philosophy that argues that it is wrong for 
humans to attempt to alter the conditions of life in the mortal sphere of 
influence. It is opposed to the idea that absolute "progress" is a desirable 
goal for the pursuit of human endeavors.

    I'm not sure how I've said it's wrong for people to try to alter the 
conditions of life. I strongly believe that progress is a desirable goal. In 
fact, thanks to you, I now know that I am a meliorist. Never knew there was 
a word for it and never knew there were people who weren't.

    But then I found what I think you meant, "Apologetics is the field of 
study concerned with the systematic defense of a position. Someone who 
engages in apologetics is called an apologist." So perhaps you are asking me 
to stop systematically defending my position. Don't worry, my defense is not 
and has not been systematic.

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 06:56:30 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:56:30 +0100
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <slrndl6uur.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h4knsn.1tihnpm15d5y4lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrndl6uur.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dj000s$nap$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-17, Alex Martelli schreef <aleaxit at yahoo.com>:
> 
>><themightydoyle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
>>>a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
>>>timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.
>>
>>Definitely a better architecture.  Anyway, one supported way for a
>>thread to raise an exception in a different thread is function
>>thread.interrupt_main(), which raises a KeyboardInterrupt in the *main*
>>thread (the one thread that's running at the beginning of your program).
>>
>>There's also a supported, documented function to raise any given
>>exception in any existing thread, but it's deliberately NOT directly
>>exposed to Python code -- you need a few lines of  C-coded extension (or
>>pyrex, ctypes, etc, etc) to get at the functionality.  This small but
>>non-null amount of "attrition" was deliberately put there to avoid
>>casual overuse of a facility intended only to help in very peculiar
>>cases (essentially in debuggers &c, where the thread's code may be buggy
>>and fail to check a keep-alive flag correctly...!-).
> 
> 
> I find this rather arrogant. It is not up to the developers of python
> to decide how the users of python will use the language. If someone
> has use of specific functionality he shouldn't be stopped because his
> use is outside the intentions of the developers.
> 
The developers have to support (at no cost) what the users do, so if 
they want to make use of certain features inaccessible to users who are 
likely to go wrong then that's up to them.

> Just suppose you are writing a chess program. You let the program
> "think" while it is the users move, but this thinking has to be
> interrupted and some cleanup has to be made after the users move
> has made a lot of this thinking obsolete by his move. Such code
> could be mixture of loops and recursion that makes use of a simple
> flag to end it all, unpractical. Use of an exception raised from
> somewhere else would IMO in this case be an acceptable choice.
> 
In *your* opinion, possibly. In my opinion it would seem to make more 
sense to have the worker thread code examine a shared flag and raise an 
exception at some convenient point in its calculation cycle. Otherwise 
you have to write the worker thread to be capable of handling 
asynchronous signals, which is a notoriously difficult task. I presume 
this is why Alex commented that he thought the OP's "better solution" 
was "definitely a better architecture."

> Why should the coder of this software have to go through this
> deliberate set up attrition, to get at this functionality, just
> because it wasn't intented to be used in such a way by the
> developers?
> 
Because otherwise people who know no better will use the feature for 
purposes where it's not the best way to achieve the required 
functionality, leading to yet more endless discussions about why "it 
doesn't work". Asynchronous signalling between threads is an accident 
waiting to happen in the hands of an inexperienced programmer.

> As far as I know, pyrex and ctypes weren't intended to get
> at the Python/C api. But they didn't create extra hurdles
> for those who could use it that way.
> 
This seems like a complete non sequitur to me. Let's stick to the point.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From python-url at phaseit.net  Tue Oct 25 21:34:05 2005
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:34:05 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 26)
Message-ID: <mailman.2597.1130333023.509.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW: "Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
of what's obvious and what isn't." -- Grant Edwards

"... windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they are
people too." -- James Stroud


    "The Widget Construction Kit (WCK) is an extension API that allows
    you to implement custom widgets in pure Python."  A typical recent
    enhancemennt is slightly more efficient anti-aliased drawing under
    Windows:
        http://online.effbot.org/2005_10_01_archive.htm#20051022     

    Mike Meyer and others demonstrate the paranoia and propensity to
    abstraction of the experienced when thinking about something as
    simple as replacement of one string for another:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/98f0d93332748af9/

    Similarly, Bengt Richter illustrates that "a month" is a far 
    more complicated idea than first appears:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/68b08f36ca516aa2/

    "The deadline for PyCon 2006 submissions is now only a week away."
        http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/cfp

    Is there a good way to manage Python installations on multiple
    (Windows) hosts?  There are several:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1343f89416f8f783/


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
    absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
    much of the universe of Pybloggers.
	http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
        http://www.planetpython.org/
        http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
    tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
    Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
    list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/ (requires subscription)
  http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=python-url+group:comp.lang.python*&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python
There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.


From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Oct 11 10:56:21 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:56:21 +0200
Subject: Best way to share a python list of objects
In-Reply-To: <1128736534.695525.255410@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128736534.695525.255410@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <digjql$j4s$1@wake.carmen.se>

kyle.tk wrote:
> So I have a central list of python objects that I want to be able to
> share between different process that are possibly on different
> computers on the network. Some of the processes will add objects to
> list and another process will be a GUI that will view objects in the
> list. I want this all to happen in real-time (e.g once a processes adds
> an object to the list the GUI will see it.)
> 
> What would be the best way to accomplish this. Some of my ideas:
> - An XML file r/w-able by all processes
> - Send pickled objects between all processes and each keeps it own list
> locally
> - A ascii type protocol akin to ftp the hands out all the info to the
> processes
> 
> Any other ideas? What would work the best

Relational database are useful for sharing data in a controlled way.
A better option for arbirary Python objects might be ZODB with ZEO.

http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage
http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/index.html


From nospam at here.com  Wed Oct  5 12:13:50 2005
From: nospam at here.com (Matt Feinstein)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:13:50 -0400
Subject: Python Newbie
References: <1128526724.904832.278270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5su7k1lt4o18637u4lp0u11fqntb5rig24@4ax.com>

On 5 Oct 2005 08:38:44 -0700, norm at normgoertzen.com wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm learning Python now and I'm really pleased with everything so far,
>however,  at some point I'll want to develop a Windows application (no
>other OS at this point).  The question are:
>    1. What toolkit is best for Windows development?
>    2. Which toolkits can I exclude from consideration?
>    3. What toolkit is most popular for Windows development?
>    4. Are there any impartial reviews of these packages anywhere?

You have to give us a clue about what you mean by 'best'. 

Matt Feinstein

--
There is no virtue in believing something that can be proved to be true.


From xah at xahlee.org  Tue Oct 18 23:58:04 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 20:58:04 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <WKmdnXS_6eREM8jeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<WKmdnXS_6eREM8jeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129694284.783396.197680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Peter Hansen wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > If you think i have a point, ...
>
> You have neither that, nor a clue.

Dear Peter Hansen,

My messages speak themselfs. You and your cohorts's stamping of it does
not change its nature. And if this is done with repetitiousness, it
gives away your nature.

It is not necessary to shout against me. But if you must refute (and
that is reasonable), try to put content into your posts.
(see Philosophies of Netiquette at
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/phil_netiquette.html)

If you deem fit, create a alt.fan.XahLee, and spare the rest of Python
community of your politics. I appreciate your fandom.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From sigzero at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 17:16:31 2005
From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert Hicks)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 14:16:31 -0700
Subject: Dealing with Excel
Message-ID: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I need to pull data out of Oracle and stuff it into an Excel
spreadsheet. What modules have you used to interface with Excel and
would you recommend it?

Robert



From Danielnord15 at yahoo.se  Tue Oct  4 02:43:31 2005
From: Danielnord15 at yahoo.se (Svennglenn)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 23:43:31 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128408211.276386.94100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

> What I want:
> - the simplest thing that could possibly work!
>

Have the program check for a file hidden somewhere on the computer.
For instance, if the file dummyfile.dll doesn't exist in the
windows/system32 folder the program just doesn't start. And when you
install the program on her computer just add this file. And if anyone
copies the program the can't run it on any other computer because they
doesn't know the name of the file that's needed to start the program.

How about that?



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 15:02:51 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:02:51 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <vFb5f.3390$q%.768@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>
> [ w3c "standard" v.s. ISO ]
>
>> You haven't said why you thinbk "standards" are more valuable than
>> "recommendations". We apparently both agree they're no more likely to be
>> observed, so what is the reason?
>
> That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML recommendation by
> w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, and mixing them up by
> calling both standards is a bad thing.

Sorry, that's non-responsive.

Now, once more, why are standards" *more valuable* than "recommendations"? 




From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  6 10:08:20 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:08:20 -0500
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1609.1128605504.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com>	<AED30AD0-B8E2-44ED-BBF1-3B624A64E7B7@gmail.com>
	<4343BC8E.1060702@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1609.1128605504.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128607857_115243@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

Well, I didn't buy it JUST to compile python extensions, I'm looking to 
write C++ apps as well, I just use python for a lot of math and science 
simulations, and I got VS .NET at heavy discount since I'm a student.
> Brandon K wrote:
>> In case you missed it, I said I have windows XP.  Windows XP 
>> pre-compiled python binaries are built on VS .NET 2003.  In order to 
>> build extensions, you need the compiler the interpreter was built on, 
>> or at least that is what is reported to me by calling setup.py.  If I 
>> was using linux, which I currently am not, it'd be a different story.  
>> Additionally, GCC isn't available for windows XP, only MinGW, the 
>> port, and I don't know that much about it to use it running on a 
>> Windows platform.  Furthermore, I was asking for help on an extension, 
>> not an economical question about my programming environment.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2005, at 10:25 PM, Brandon Keown wrote:
>>>
>>>>   I have programmed a fractal generator (Julia Set/Mandelbrot Set) 
>>>> in python in the past, and have had good success, but it would run 
>>>> so slowly because of the overhead involved with the calculation.  I 
>>>> recently purchased VS .NET 2003 (Win XP, precomp binary of python 
>>>> 2.4.2rc1) to make my own extensions.
>>>
>>> Why did you need to purchase anything when gcc is available for free?
>>>
> Since gcc isn't an option, the logical way to proceed would be to do 
> what others have done and install the Microsoft Toolkit compiler, 
> available from their web site for the outrageous price of nothing. I can 
> vouch that it really does compile extensions for Python 2.4 on Windows, 
> having done that myself.
> 
> See
> 
>   http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/
> 
> regards
>  Steve


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From email at christoph-haas.de  Thu Oct 20 16:50:56 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:50:56 +0200
Subject: get a copy of a string leaving original intact
In-Reply-To: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F6A@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
References: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F6A@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
Message-ID: <200510202250.56620.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Thursday 20 October 2005 22:43, Bell, Kevin wrote:
> I need to copy a file, say "abc-1.tif" to another directory, but if it's
> in there already, I need to transfer it named "abc-2.tif" but I'm going
> about it all wrong.

What a coincidence... I stepped about this today:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/442460

Looks close to what you are trying.

Kind Regards
 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From robert.h.boyd at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 10:26:41 2005
From: robert.h.boyd at gmail.com (Robert Boyd)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:26:41 -0400
Subject: Question: New editions of Python books?
Message-ID: <e9e3813b0510270726l37123dc0r3a8305becd9e471e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Are any new editions in the works for either "Python Essential Reference" or
"Python in a Nutshell"? I'm holding off buying one or the other existing
editions, although my library overdue fines for them would have paid for
them by now!

Thanks,
Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20051027/e6048f4a/attachment.html>

From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  5 07:44:14 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:44:14 -0500
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
In-Reply-To: <AED30AD0-B8E2-44ED-BBF1-3B624A64E7B7@gmail.com>
References: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com>
	<AED30AD0-B8E2-44ED-BBF1-3B624A64E7B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4343BC8E.1060702@yahoo.com>

In case you missed it, I said I have windows XP.  Windows XP 
pre-compiled python binaries are built on VS .NET 2003.  In order to 
build extensions, you need the compiler the interpreter was built on, or 
at least that is what is reported to me by calling setup.py.  If I was 
using linux, which I currently am not, it'd be a different story.  
Additionally, GCC isn't available for windows XP, only MinGW, the port, 
and I don't know that much about it to use it running on a Windows 
platform.  Furthermore, I was asking for help on an extension, not an 
economical question about my programming environment.

Thanks
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2005, at 10:25 PM, Brandon Keown wrote:
>>
>>    I have programmed a fractal generator (Julia Set/Mandelbrot Set) 
>> in python in the past, and have had good success, but it would run so 
>> slowly because of the overhead involved with the calculation.  I 
>> recently purchased VS .NET 2003 (Win XP, precomp binary of python 
>> 2.4.2rc1) to make my own extensions.
>
> Why did you need to purchase anything when gcc is available for free?
>
>
> ---
> Andrew Gwozdziewycz
> apgwoz at gmail.com
> http://ihadagreatview.org
> http://plasticandroid.org
>
>
>
>




From franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at  Wed Oct 12 09:10:51 2005
From: franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:10:51 +0200
Subject: IDLE dedent/unindent key bindings for non-us keybord?
References: <mailman.1955.1129121914.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kd2qk1pi4326mvcledl14l746e1gv4eemv@4ax.com>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:58:18 +0200, "Adriaan Renting"
<renting at astron.nl> wrote:

>You could try using the Qscintilla based Eric3 IDE, it uses Ctrl-i and Ctrl-Shift-i. 
> 

That is possible.

But what has it to do with the original post?

Apart from that, in Idle you can bind them it to Ctrl-i and Ctrl-Shift-i
also.

-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct  4 13:14:45 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted :

>I think e-mail should be text only. 

I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.

But HTML is not the problem!

That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
  
HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.

I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.

Program listings are much more readable on my website.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From sxanth at cs.teiath.gr  Tue Oct 11 06:01:34 2005
From: sxanth at cs.teiath.gr (sxanth at cs.teiath.gr)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:01:34 +0300
Subject: Idle bytecode query on apparently unreachable returns
Message-ID: <1129024894.434b8d7e3f8b4@tilemachos.teiath.gr>

>What puzzles me, though, are bytecodes 17, 39 and 42 - surely these aren't 
>reachable? Does the compiler just throw in a default 'return None' 
>epilogue, with routes there from every code path, even when it's not 
>needed? If so, why?

Hi.

pyc (http://freshmeat.net/projects/pyc) can already remove that
unused code since June.

As for "why", I guess that there is a lot of room for optimizing
the bytecode but it's a PITA doing all of it in the current internal
compiler. And so developers simply don't care about it.
Maybe the ast-branch would make it easier to start generating
optimal bytecode. On the other hand, the 'compiler module'
produces bad bytecode (for example it miscalculates the 'stacksize'
of functions and as a result the generated functions are slow), it
doesn't use LIST_APPEND, and it doesn't even do the simple peephole
optimizations of the intenal compiler!


In the latest version 0.8 to-be-released, pyc does many more bytecode
optimizations that give a +5% to pystone and it can also bring
generator expressions and decorators to python 2.3.

[OT]
0.8 is stuck on the conditional. We can bring the conditional expression
from the __future__ to users of 2.3/2.4 but I'm not sure people really
like the "T if C else F" syntax over "C ? T : F".

The argument: "python uses 'and'/'or' instead of &&/|| and therefore
it should also use 'if-else' instead of '?:'", just doesn't apply.
And generally this is one of those things that you will never find
the argument that proves which is the right choice. In these cases
you do what you *LIKE* more.

Perhaps a vote would be in order considering the this-or-that
nature of the conditional expression :)


st.

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent through the TEI of ATHENS by means of NOC. 


From m.barenco at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:50:24 2005
From: m.barenco at gmail.com (m.barenco at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:50:24 -0700
Subject: dictionnaries and lookup tables
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1913.1129054654.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1913.1129054654.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129056624.073937.207160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

>Sure they're implemented.

Oops, my apologies.

Just to build up on that, when I run:

#start of listing
import random

A={1:None,2:None,"hello":None,(1,2,3):None}

def dictcomp(n):
	for i in range(n):
		B=A.copy()
		C=A.copy()
		b=random.uniform(0,1)
		c=random.uniform(0,1)
		B[b]=None
		C[c]=None
		res=((B>C)==(b>c))
		print res,

dictcomp(1000)
#end of listing

I get 1000 True's on the output, which suggests that key-wise ordering
is implemented in some guise. The question is: how do I access that?

Thanks

Martino



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  3 18:06:00 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:06:00 +0100
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <nvh0f.11590$pb5.564339@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>	<86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<nvh0f.11590$pb5.564339@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <dhsa02$aib$1@sea.gmane.org>

Roel Schroeven wrote:
> Mike Meyer wrote:
> 
>>Peter Decker <pydecker at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Setting the default Reply-To: to the list means that 'Reply' sends
>>>just to the list (the desired behavior most of the time), and 'Reply
>>>to all' sends 2 copies.
>>
>>
>>No, it sends one copy to the list, and one copy to the original
>>author. This is the behavior you want. The author may not be
>>subscribed to the list. Such people are most in need of help, and you
>>want the default to be that they get help.
> 
> 
> Is that really the desired behaviour? IMO the least you can do if you're
> searching for help is subscribing to the mailing list on which you're
> looking for help. Me and many others don't like to receive replies
> directly instead of via the mailing list; it's of no use, since we're
> subscribed to the mailing list anyway.
> 
> Just reply to the mailing list, and subscribe to it if you want to
> receive replies. Avoids duplicates without all kinds mail filters. Only
> disadvantage is that by subscribing to the mailing list, you receive all
> posts to the list, not just the replies to your own post. But that's not
> a big disadvantage. On the contrary; one can easily learn something from
> them.
> 
... if one has time to do anything but curse and delete them !

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 00:41:23 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 21:41:23 -0700
Subject: make: circular dependency for Modules/signalmodule.o
In-Reply-To: <4354a3f4$0$28047$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <4354a3f4$0$28047$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <1129696883.760079.323170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

James Buchanan wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> I'm preparing Python 2.4.2 for the upcoming Minix 3.x release, and I
> have problems with make.  configure runs fine and creates the makefile,
> but right at the end ends with an error about a circular dependency in
> Modules/signalmodule.o.

I've never heard of this problem.  The Makefile is generated by
configure so this is possibly a configure issue.  In my (generated)
Makefile, signalmodule.o is listed in MODOBJS, but not in SIGNAL_OBJS.
Maybe your signalmodule.o is listed in both?

Search through the Makefile for signalmodule and see what you can find.

Mine has two long lines for the rules which cause signalmodule.c to be
compiled.

Modules/signalmodule.o: $(srcdir)/Modules/signalmodule.c; $(CC)
$(PY_CFLAGS) -c $(srcdir)/Modules/signalmodule.c -o
Modules/signalmodule.o

Modules/signalmodule$(SO):  Modules/signalmodule.o; $(LDSHARED)
Modules/signalmodule.o -o Modules/signalmodule$(SO)

Good luck,
n



From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 19:04:49 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Profiling results
Message-ID: <20051013230449.38319.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello All,

I'm trying to profile a Python program using gprof,
but I don't understand some of the results, especially
what some of the functions do. For example, _moncount,
mcount, _PyEval_EvalFrame <cycle X> take too much
time. What are they for? Any ideas?

Thank you for your help! 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 21 02:28:15 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 23:28:15 -0700
Subject: Question on class member in python
In-Reply-To: <dj3k70$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1129613041.473285.84800@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4mjg9.1n5khr7pjy1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<dj3k70$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1129876095.937498.277630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

It looks like there isn't a last word of the differrences....



From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 01:39:04 2005
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (B Mahoney)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 22:39:04 -0700
Subject: Expat - how to UseForeignDTD
Message-ID: <1129786744.782887.80130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I have a simple Kid template document:

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
<?python
import time
title = "A Kid &anything; Template"
?>
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
      xmlns:py="http://purl.org/kid/ns#"
>
... (snip)
</html>

This runs as expected but now I would like to load a DTD without
tampering with this xml file

In the expat parser __init__  after setting other handlers
for parser, I have added:
parser.ExternalEntityRefHandler = self._ExternalEntityRefHandler
parser.UseForeignDTD(1)  (also tried True)

Which I understand at some point will call
self._ExternalEntityRefHandler
with None for args and I must have code to get this other dtd.
I have done regular ExternalEntityRefHandlers before.

As required, these two lines occur before my Parse() call.
Perhaps I misunderstand the sequence, or need something more in my
xml file, but my _ExternalEntityRefHandler is never called.  The
process behaves as if I never added these two lines.

Help?



From free.condiments at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:02:18 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 08:02:18 -0700
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1128783738.588723.200130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What about not storing args at all? Something like this:

def cache_function(func, args_list):
    cache = {}
    def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
        kwargs.update(dict(zip(args_list, args)))
        if kwargs in cache:
            return cache[kwargs]
        result = func(**kwargs)
        cache[kwargs] = result
        return result
    return cached_result

args_list is a list of all the argument names, so that they can be
converted into keyword arguments.



From usenet.filter at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:19:43 2005
From: usenet.filter at gmail.com (Stephan)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 08:19:43 -0700
Subject: List performance and CSV
Message-ID: <1128784783.256285.24680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm working on a simple project in Python that reads in two csv files
and compares items in one file with items in another for matches.  I
read the files in using the csv module, adding each line into a list.
Then I run the comparision on the lists.  This works fine, but I'm
curious about performance.

Here's the main part of my code:

######
file1 = open("CustomerList.csv")
CustomerList = csv.reader(file1)
Customers = []

#Read in the contents of the CSV file into memory
for CustomerRecord in CustomerList:
    Customers.append(CustomerRecord)

#not shown here: the second file CustomersToMatch
#is loaded in a similar manner

#loop through each record and find matches on column 2
#breaking out of inner loop when a match is found
for loop1 in range(len(CustomersToMatch)):
    for loop2 in range(len(Customers)):
        if (CustomersToMatch[loop1][2] == Customers[loop2][2]) :
            CustomersToMatch[loop1][1] = Customers[loop2][1]
            break

######

With this code, it takes roughly 10 minutes on a 2Ghz x86 box to
compare two lists of 20,000 records.  Is that good?  Out of curiousity,
I tried psyco and saw no difference.  Is there a better Python synax to
use?

Thanks,
-Stephan



From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 13:29:25 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 10:29:25 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1707.1128702514.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128701207.675536.126370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1707.1128702514.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128706165.298211.148680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

No need to apologize for continuing to waste your
time, self.plonk.  Get a life, though, and you'll be happier.

As to your question, well, not before you apologize for
thread crapping.

As for your possible solutions, if you consider any
of yours to be "readable", then i have no interest in
coding with you.

And for

    if glob.glob(path): 

I had already posted that work around.



From shitizb at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 20:32:34 2005
From: shitizb at yahoo.com (Shitiz Bansal)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:32:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129326880.3372.68.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051015003234.96963.qmail@web53810.mail.yahoo.com>

Threads can share the same memory space.
Hence a very neat way to achieve the objective.
 
> For example:
> 
> ---------------
> programA.py
> ---------------
> 
> import programB

Exception=0;<initialising a variable>

> thread = programB.MakeThread()
> thread.start()

if (Exception):
      raise SomeException()

> ---------------
> programB.py
> ---------------
> import threading, time
> 
> class SomeException(Exception):
> pass
> 
> class MakeThread(threading.Thread):
> def __init__(self):
> threading.Thread.__init__(self)
> 
> def run(self):
> i = 0
> while 1:
> print i
> i += 1
> time.sleep(1) #wait a second to continue
> if i>10:
 omit this ->raise SomeException()
instead:
 
if i>10:
Exception=1 or whatever
> 

Sounds cool?
 
shitiz

Jeremy Moles <jeremy at emperorlinux.com> wrote:
On non-Windows system there are a ton of ways to do it--this is almost a
whole field unto itself. :) (D-BUS, fifos, sockets, shmfs, etc.) In
Windows, I wouldn't have a clue. 

I guess this is a hard question to answer without a bit more
information. :)

On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 14:45 -0700, dcrespo wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> How can I get a raised exception from other thread that is in an
> imported module?
> 
> For example:
> 
> ---------------
> programA.py
> ---------------
> 
> import programB
> 
> thread = programB.MakeThread()
> thread.start()
> 
> ---------------
> programB.py
> ---------------
> import threading, time
> 
> class SomeException(Exception):
> pass
> 
> class MakeThread(threading.Thread):
> def __init__(self):
> threading.Thread.__init__(self)
> 
> def run(self):
> i = 0
> while 1:
> print i
> i += 1
> time.sleep(1) #wait a second to continue
> if i>10:
> raise SomeException()
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Daniel
> 

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 09:29:36 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:29:36 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Disclaimer: this is not a flame against Boo.

It just boggles my mind that a language that describes itself as
"python inspired syntax" keeps being touted as:

> Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
> Boo (which could be considered almost an static version of Python for .NET)

Boo is *nothing* like a static version of Python. Stop perpetuating
this nonsense.



From mail at tuxipuxi.org  Sun Oct  9 06:17:36 2005
From: mail at tuxipuxi.org (Michael Goettsche)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:17:36 +0200
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
In-Reply-To: <1128807595.122982.310790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128807595.122982.310790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510091217.36591.mail@tuxipuxi.org>

On Saturday 08 October 2005 23:39, Xah Lee wrote:
> Dear Michael Goettsche,
>
> why don't you lead the pack to be on-topic for a change, huh?
>
>  Xah
>

Because you are a moron. Unsubscribe from this list please and never come 
back.


From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 21 08:54:43 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:54:43 -0400
Subject: ANN: Beginning Python (Practical Python 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <slrndlchfi.kor.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrndlchfi.kor.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <4358e30c$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> I guess it has actually been out for a while -- I just haven't
> received my copies yet... Anyways: My book, "Beginning Python: From
> Novice to Professional" (Apress, 2005) is now out.

Apress is offering a $10 rebate if you purchase the book before October 30. See for example
http://www.bookpool.com/sm/159059519X

Kent


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Mon Oct 31 17:31:08 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:31:08 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <20051031220841.GF2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2744.1130787080.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130789205.862429.10090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051031220841.GF2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20051031223108.GG2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 31, Micah Elliott wrote:
> Now I need to go beautify my collection.  :-)

While a fun exercise, there are probably already dozens (or
thousands?) of utilities in existence that do this and much more.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 17 09:01:39 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:01:39 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:17:03 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:

> Yup. When NS was the 800 lb gorilla 

When was this? When did Netscape have a monopoly in any market?

Netscape was never the 800 lb gorilla.

> on they acted like MS, 

When did Netscape executives perjure themselves in court?

When did Netscape commit fraud? Astro-turfing? Patent infringement? Theft
of code?

If you really wanted to compare apples with apples (no pun intended), IBM
and Microsoft would be the two to compare. IBM had an effective monopoly
once, and they acted like Microsoft, although even they never had the
gall to just ignore the court's rulings as Microsoft has done, and
continues to do. Twenty years ago, Microsoft were the knights in shining
armour going to save Apple Macintosh from the Big Blue evil empire. But
that was then, this is now, and unlike IBM, Microsoft hasn't yet learnt
about karma.

-- 
Steven.



From list at notmyisp.pl  Fri Oct  7 06:24:09 2005
From: list at notmyisp.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:24:09 +0200
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1651.1128661041.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1651.1128661041.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43464cc9$1@news.home.net.pl>

Timothy Smith wrote:
> i try to run my app and i get this
> 
> %python DutyShift.py
> error
> 
> 
> thats it. thats the error. mya pp was previously working, and i did make 
> some fairly large changes to it, but i'd expect a more descriptive 
> message then just "error". anyidea where i need to start looking?

It seems to me, like a result of a "print" statement, exexcuted 
somewhere (maybe in the except: clause). You may look for lines similar to:

print "error"

Tomasz Lisowski


From jhu at metrigenix.com  Fri Oct 28 16:05:11 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:05:11 -0400
Subject: drag/move image from staticBitmap control?
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACDA@torexch.metrigenix.com>

Hi, all gurus,

 

I have an application to show bitmap image on one wx.staticBitmap
control area, I can display part of the image, or the whole image(detail
is unclear),

But I would like to use mouse to drag/move the image inside
thewx.staticBitmap control when only part image on the screen, just like
maps.google does, 

is it possible to do that?

Any sample code or any idea or suggestion are appreciated!

Have a nice weekend!

 

James

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From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 09:30:28 2005
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (stewart.midwinter at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 06:30:28 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2040.1129248088.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <33765778-7F70-438D-8020-1FEC94CE1FA9@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2040.1129248088.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129296627.990153.78290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

sure it is, but since this is a Python list, you'd also need PyQt to go
along with it, and there's no version of PyQt yet compatible with Qt4.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 20:54:20 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:54:20 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

PyPK <superprad at gmail.com> wrote:

> What possible tricky areas/questions could be asked in Python based
> Technical Interviews?

I like to present code that seems like it should work, but has some kind
of relatively subtle problem, either of correctness in some corner case,
or of performance, etc -- and I ask them what they would say if they
were to code-review that code, or how they would help a student who came
to them with that code and complaints about it not working, &c.

This tells me whether they have real-world Python experience, and how
deep, or whether they've carefully studied the appropriate areas of
"Python in a Nutshell" and the Cookbook (and I'm biased enough to think
that the second kind of preparation is almost as good as the first
kind...;-).

Not sure whether you think this count as "tricky"... they're typically
problems that do come up in the real world, from (e.g.):
    for string_piece in lots_of_pieces:
        bigstring += string_piece
(a typical performance-trap) to
    for item in somelist:
        if isbad(item):
            somelist.remove(item)
(with issues of BOTH correctness and performance), to
    class Sic:
        def getFoo(self): ...
        def setFoo(self): ...
        foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
to
    class Base(object)
        def getFoo(self): ...
        def setFoo(self): ...
        foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)

    class Derived(Base):
        def getFoo(self): ....

and so on, and so forth.  If a candidate makes short work of a couple of
these, and I've been asked to focus my part of the interview solely on
Python coding, I may branch out into more advanced stuff such as asking
for an example use case for a closure, a custom descriptor, or an import
hook, for example -- those are the cases in which I'm trying to decide
if, on a scale of 1 to 5, the candidate's Python competence is about 4
or well over 4 (I would not consider having no idea of why one might
want to code a custom descriptor to be at all "disqualifying" -- it
would just mean I'd rate the candidate 4 out of five, instead of 4.5 or
more, for Python coding competence).


Alex


From grunar at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:59:35 2005
From: grunar at gmail.com (grunar at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:59:35 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2310.1129819963.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2310.1129819963.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129823975.023490.287440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> >> Using // for 'in' looks really weird, too. It's too bad you can't
> >> overload Python's 'in' operator. (Can you? It seems to be hard-coded
> >> to iterate through an iterable and look for the value, rather than
> >> calling a private method like some other builtins do.)
> >>
> >
> > // was a bit of a stretch.  I'd initially thought it for the "where"
> > clause, becuase it's lower precedence than ** (I think), and really
> > late at night // kind of looks like a W.  I decided against it because
> > it looks to close to a comment in some other languages.
> >
> > Python "in" clause doesn't seem exploitable in any way--probably a
> > good
> > thing.  I did add a "in_" method (name is arguable), which does the
> > same thing, also a not_in.
>
> What about modifying the overloaded == to produce 'in' if the right-
> hand side is a list? Then you can more easily generate statements
> dynamically:
>
> def makeCond(name):
>      return someOtherCond & (model.table.name == name)
>
> makeCond("foo")
> makeCond(["foo", "bar"])
>
> And it doesn't require two different functions.
>
> As long as there is no case where you might actually want to test if
> a column value equals a list, it should work. Is there? Some DBs
> support an Array type, but in general that might be better handled
> with an Array class, anyway.

This is a great idea, and should be the default behaviour for lists.
It does present a problem if the right hand expression is a SELECT
object, though.  Both of these are valid syntax:

id = (select max(id) from table)
id in (select id from table)

Also, SQLite allows for  column in table_name syntax.  I've never seen
that before, but I wanted to support that, there'd be no way of knowing
in vs. ==.

On this line of thought, what about the += operator?  That might be
more intuative than //.  I could even use -= for not in.

Runar



From mrosenstihl at macnews.de  Tue Oct 11 19:04:09 2005
From: mrosenstihl at macnews.de (Markus Rosenstihl)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:04:09 +0200
Subject: Nicer way of strip and replace?
References: <7xpsqb6839.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <dihgd9$ogj$05$1@news.t-online.com>

On 2005-10-11 23:45:46 +0200, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> said:

> Markus Rosenstihl <mrosenstihl at macnews.de> writes:
>> This looks ugly (I htink)  and I wonder if there is a nicer way to
>> strip commata and change the comma to a dot already when reading in.
>> Or should i do it with a shell script before processing in python?
> 
> First of all you should just set your locale to use comma instead
> of dot as the numeric decimal, instead of translating commas to dots.

Yes that is true, but most of the time I use a dot as numerical decimal.


> 
> Second, for the field separation, see if you can configure the csv
> module to do it for you.

indeed, it did it correctly by default:

read_file = csv.reader(open('2005_08_Rechnung_4963184011.dat', 'r'), 
delimiter="\t")
for row in read_file:
	rechnung.append(row)






From dietz at rouge.phys.lsu.edu  Wed Oct  5 10:11:15 2005
From: dietz at rouge.phys.lsu.edu (alexLIGO)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:11:15 -0700
Subject: How to get the output from os.system() into a variable?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1536.1128520431.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128519815.769933.60660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1536.1128520431.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128521475.136191.165780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

thank you very much for your tipps. I get it to work!

Alexander



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 23 18:50:57 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:50:57 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<djgt6m$mj7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.22.50.56.41193@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:52:38 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

> The court's determination of the relevent 
> market, on wich all of their other decisions were predicated, was arbitrary 
> and bizarre, and the law did not provide any notice of how the market would 
> be determined.

You keep saying that, as if people could do their word processing and run
their financial accounting software on the micro-controllers of microwave
ovens or the computer in their car engine.

The market of desktop PC is a perfectly obvious and natural market. You
are the one insisting on arbitrarily lumping together who knows what other
products in with the desktop PC. I say "who knows" for a reason -- the
only two examples you have come up with were Apple Macintoshes and
desktop PCs running Linux (both less than 5% of the market *now*, and
even less back when the court was investigating Microsoft). Making your
position even more bizarre, both of these products were recognised by the
court as part of the market in question, both were recognised as potential
competing products put at risk due to Microsoft's illegal behaviour.


>     In the sense of interchangeability, almost all operating systems are
> monopolies. 

You don't know what the word monopoly actually means in either law or
economics, do you? What you have written is a perfectly grammatical
sentence that makes no sense whatsoever. If OSes are monopolies, then they
are NOT interchangeable -- but you state in the very next sentence that
they are.

> And if you go by application, Windows, Linux, and FreeBSD
> are all interchangeable -- there is nothing significant you can do on
> one that you can't do on the other.

Try telling that to a business that needs to do computerised book-keeping
of wages and payroll.



-- 
Steven.



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Oct 18 10:43:04 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:43:04 -0400
Subject: global interpreter lock
In-Reply-To: <1129623917.257410.294060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129623917.257410.294060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435509F8.7030108@bellsouth.net>

Tommy.Ryding at gmail.com wrote:

>I just need confirmation that I think right.
>
>Is the files thread_xxx.h (xxx = nt, os2 or whatever) responsible for
>the
>global interpreter lock in a multithreaded environment?
>
>I'm currently writing my own thread_VW for VxWorks, thats why I'm
>asking. 
>
>//Tommy
>
>  
>
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the lock actually lives in 
ceval.c, around here:



    802                 PyThread_release_lock(interpreter_lock);
    803
    804                 /* Other threads may run now */
    805
    806                 PyThread_acquire_lock(interpreter_lock, 1);


This was taken from what appears to be a 2.4.1 release rather than a CVS 
checkout.  It looks like the PyThread_type_lock is defined in the 
thread_xxx.h files, though.

HTH,

- jmj


From http  Thu Oct 13 17:45:53 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:45:53 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<XFm3f.10321$y_1.7586@edtnps89>
	<11ktbum1ira9le4@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns96EE8772BFB9Fbguild31425@64.59.144.76>
	<11ktl11e426b41d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xslv56qge.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

gordonb.mrv0t at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) writes:
> I'm not sure that you can disable Javascript from reading cookies
> from other sites while allowing Javascript to read cookies from the
> site it came from on all browsers.

Javascript is not supposed to be able to read cross-site cookies.
It's bad but it's not THAT bad.  There was an MSIE bug that allowed
reading other sites' cookies but it was correctly considered a
horrendous security breach and it was fixed quickly after discovery.
It caused a big fire drill where I was working at the time of the
incident.  We had to write a special ActiveX control to protect our
cookie info until the browser patch went out.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 12:15:52 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 09:15:52 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <s9zy84y67r1.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zy84y67r1.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1129133752.747652.246050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

thanks for the tip, however even when I do not free aString or bString,
i'm still crashing at the malloc in the c function, not the wrapper.


Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> "Java and Swing" <codecraig at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> [...]
> >       char *aString = 0;
> >   	char *bString = 0;
> [...]
> >   	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> [...]
> > 	free(aString);
> >  	free(bString);
>
> aString and bString are pointers to memory managed by the strings in
> your args tuple.  You must not free them!  The memory is automatically
> managed by Python.
>
>    Bernhard
>
> --
> Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
> Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
> Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 24 14:47:14 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:47:14 -0500
Subject: Extention String returning
In-Reply-To: <1130178503.498003.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130178503.498003.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051024184713.GB16962@unpythonic.net>

I think that you want to use
	return PyString_FromStringAndSize(buf, 8);

Jeff
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From alex_f_il at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:28:06 2005
From: alex_f_il at hotmail.com (alex_f_il at hotmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 06:28:06 -0800
Subject: need start point for getting html info from web
In-Reply-To: <1130724071.688187.59230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130724071.688187.59230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130768886.337891.97140@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

You can easily do it with SW Explorer Automation
(http://home.comcast.net/~furmana/SWIEAutomation.htm).
The program creates an automation API for any Web application which
uses HTML and DHTML and works with Microsoft Internet Explorer. The Web
application becomes programmatically accessible from any .NET language.


The tool has Visual Table Data Extractor. It allows visually define the
table structure. The table becomes accessible from the code as
DataTable class. You can develop the extraction script in hours with
the tool.



From no at spam  Wed Oct 26 22:25:08 2005
From: no at spam (D H)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:25:08 -0500
Subject: NEWBIE
In-Reply-To: <1130367819.973474.85660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130367819.973474.85660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <IIWdnRw5duQYp_3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> brenden wrote:
> 
>>hey everyone....i'm new to all this programming and all this stuff and
>>i just wanted to learn how to do it...
>>
>>does anyone think they can teach me how to work with python?
> 
> 
> Don't waste readers' time with such vague and broad requests. Instead,
> post a specific question, for example showing a small fragment of
> Python code that does not work as you expect. Or ask how to do XYZ in
> Python, if you are unable to find the answer using Google.
> 
> "Newbie" by itself is always a bad subject line. Having a specific
> question should help you form a better title for your message.


As you can see, you won't find help here.  You will get a lot of great 
advice and help on the python-tutor list, which is for beginners such as 
yourself:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Sun Oct  9 16:04:01 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:04:01 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: wxPython in a PDA
Message-ID: <slrndkitth.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

Does anyone know of an inexpensive PDA which would run
wxPython? The availability of a conventional (wired)
Ethernet would be nice, as well (e.g., using a CF
adapter).

TIA,

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From xah at xahlee.org  Sat Oct  8 16:10:17 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 13:10:17 -0700
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
Message-ID: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

there is a MacPerl program posted in 1998 that uses Mac's speech synth
to sing Daisy Bell.
See:

http://bumppo.net/lists/macperl/1998/11/msg00412.html

can anyone modify it so it runs out of the box on today's OS X?

PS i'm posting this also in python and lisp group, i hope it'd be some
general interest. For some background of this song, see
  http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/daisy_bell.html

i'm interested in getting versions that can sing the song in Windows,
Mac, Linux using whatever speech synth each OS may provide. Thanks.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 03:21:37 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:21:37 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <85hhk1d9ife3gvk6co97ra03u4hah7o8i8@4ax.com>

On 8 Oct 2005 23:39:27 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote or
quoted :

>Yeah, yeah, and 640K is enough for everybody. Same song, different tune.

For how long.  Surely attachments are a stop gap. Can you imagine
people sharing images that way 100 years from now?

Why should we wait for the future?  The problems blocking easy to use
photo sharing are not technological but social.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Oct 13 13:47:04 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:47:04 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <1129225263.705977.181050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>
	<1129192705.632826.145210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129225263.705977.181050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051013174704.GB19251@ActiveState.com>

[Brett Hoerner wrote]
> As an aside to this, are there any freely available C compilers for
> Windows that can compile 64-bit binaries?  I find nothing for Cygwin or
> MinGW...

Yes. The MS Platform SDK is free and includes a compiler that can target
x86, ia64 and x64 (the latter is what MS -- and Sun -- are calling
AMD64).

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com


From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sun Oct 23 21:02:59 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:02:59 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<djgt6m$mj7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<EVT6f.1507$ki7.59085@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<djh3ue$otu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <5pW6f.1670$ki7.76729@news20.bellglobal.com>


"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote in message 
news:djh3ue$otu$1 at nntp.webmaster.com...
>
> "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote in message 
> news:EVT6f.1507$ki7.59085 at news20.bellglobal.com...
>
>>>    A right is a scope of authority. That is, a sphere within which one's 
>>> decision is sovereign.
>
>> Then why were you claiming that a government can infringe on a person's 
>> rights if those rights are not codified or even accepted by those people? 
>> The idea of inalienable rights for anyone in a Western society only 
>> exists if you believe that the rights of Western societies are 
>> inalienable and should be respected everywhere. There is a huge arrogance 
>> in that assumption, though, and once you enter a jurisdiction that does 
>> not hold your rights to be inalienable they are no longer your rights.
>>
>> You can have generally agreed upon rights, but as you note, those rights 
>> can only be hoped for if the systems exist to enforce them. Once those 
>> systems erode, you no longer have rights only hopes. The more you allow 
>> those systems to be eroded, the less you can expect your rights to exist.
>
>    This would suggest that rogue governments can't infringe on the rights 
> of their people because those people have no rights since their societies 
> don't recognize any. This is another principle I reject at its roots. Your 
> rights exist whether or not others choose to respect them.
>

I'd say to that that you're confusing a belief with a right. A belief 
doesn't become a right until society acknowledges it as such and puts 
measures in place to ensure it. If people are perfectly happy living under 
communist rule, who are you to tell them they must have the right to own 
property? If that society later acknowledges that it wants the right to own 
property then the government (in an ideal society) should respond 
accordingly. If the society demands a right and governments denies it, only 
then are the people's rights being oppressed (which may be what you were 
originally saying now that I look back, but I read it at first as the 
citizen's not ackowledging the right either).

The counter-argument is that oppressive socities work to prevent their 
citizens from expressing their desire for rights or selectively apply them, 
which is all true. Without just laws and the instruments of justice to 
enforce them, however, you cannot correct the problem. There is still an 
acknowledgement on the part of society that things are wrong, and societal 
problems eventually come to a head when the time is right else we wouldn't 
be where we are and still not be where we need to go.

I'm not claiming that the world is an easy place to live in... : )

Matt 




From Tommy.Ryding at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 04:25:17 2005
From: Tommy.Ryding at gmail.com (Tommy.Ryding at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 01:25:17 -0700
Subject: global interpreter lock
Message-ID: <1129623917.257410.294060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I just need confirmation that I think right.

Is the files thread_xxx.h (xxx = nt, os2 or whatever) responsible for
the
global interpreter lock in a multithreaded environment?

I'm currently writing my own thread_VW for VxWorks, thats why I'm
asking. 

//Tommy



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 11:09:12 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:09:12 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h4xfdx.azxzrkhr5xukN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au> wrote:
   ...
> my hard-won ignorance, and admit that I don't see the 
> problem with the property examples:
> 
> >     class Sic:
> >         def getFoo(self): ...
> >         def setFoo(self): ...
> >         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)

Sorry for skipping the 2nd argument to setFoo, that was accidental in my
post.  The problem here is: class Sic is "classic" ("legacy",
"old-style") so property won't really work for it (the setter will NOT
trigger when you assign to s.foo and s is an instance of Sic).

> > to
> >     class Base(object)
> >         def getFoo(self): ...
> >         def setFoo(self): ...
> >         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
> > 
> >     class Derived(Base):
> >         def getFoo(self): ....
> 
> Unless the answer is "Why are you using setters and 
> getters anyway? This isn't Java you know."

Nope, that's not a problem -- presumably the "..." bodies DO something
useful, and they do get nicely dressed in attribute syntax.  The
problem, as others have indicated, is that overriding doesn't work as
one might expect -- the solution, in Python 2.4 and earlier, is to use
one extra level of indirection:
    def __getFoo(self): return self.getFoo()
    def getFoo(self): ...
    foo = property(__getFoo)
so the name lookup for 'getFoo' on self happens when you access s.foo
(for s being an instance of this here-sketched class) and overriding
works just as expected.  This can be seen as the simplest possible use
case for the "Template Method" Design Pattern, btw;-)


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 04:01:21 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:01:21 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <di5a0b$ag0$1@sea.gmane.org>

DaveM wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -0000, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
[...]
> 
>>For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the
>>subject consists of more than one person.  Sports teams,
>>government departments, states, corporations etc. are 
>>grammatically plural.  In American, the verb agrees with the
>>word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by
>>that word.
>>
>>In sports (thats "sport" for you Brits):
> 
OK, so how do you account for the execresence "That will give you a 
savings of 20%", which usage is common in America?

There aren't any universal rules, except possibly "British people speak 
English while Americans don't". Nowadays relatively few people on either 
side of the Atlantic even know the difference between a collective noun 
and a plural, so there's little hope of them being able to correctly 
apply any rule there might be (and yes, I split that infinitive just to 
annoy any pedants who may be reading).
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
>>American: Minnesota is behind 7-0.  The Vikings are behind 7-0.
>> British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0.
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> 
>>In politics:
> 
> 
>> American: The war department has decided to cancel the program.
>>  British: The war department have decided to cancel the program.
> 
> 
> Not sure about this one. They may be used interchangeably as neither strikes
> me as sounding "odd".
> 
Then again, there's room for infinite disagreement about these topics. I 
mentioned a while ago that I disliked the English on a bumper sticker I 
liked, which read

"Some village in Texas is missing their idiot".

Several people defended this, saying that a village could use the plural 
possessive "their". I personally found it odd (and essentially 
non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should 
be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So

"Some village in Texas are missing their idiot"

would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only the idiot 
alluded to would say), while my preferred choice would be

"Some village in Texas is missing its idiot".

Then again, what can you expect from a country whose leader pronounces 
"nuclear" as though it were spelled "nucular"? I suppose it's only a 
matter of time before they change the spelling just like they did with 
"aluminium".

tongue-in-cheek-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From renting at astron.nl  Tue Oct 25 04:22:24 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:22:24 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Message-ID: <s35e077f.060@server7.nfra.nl>

>>>"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> 10/25/05 9:44 am >>> 
% 
%"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
%news:2n3133-19g.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es... 
% 
%>>    Essentially, Microsoft asked for exclusive arrangements. That is, 
%>>arrangements wherein you could not sell competing products if you wished 
%>>to 
%>>sell Microsoft products. That's not even remotely unusual. 
% 
%>It soitenly is, stanley. In case you hadn't noticed, the shops sell 
%>more than one kind of washing powder. 
% 
%   Your argument is nonsensical. Because you can find one category of goods 
%that don't have the property I'm talking about it follows that the property 
%is unusual?! 
% 
%   Operating systems are not like washing powder at all. Try to sell both 
%Big Macs and Whoppers in one store. Heck, try to sell Craftsman tools 
%without being a Sears. Microsoft gets to decide whether they sell their 
%operating systems software like washing powder or like burgers, not you. 
% 
The thing it, that under certain circumstances, defined by law, it becomes illegal to ask for exclusive arrangements. One of these is if you have a monopoly. Another is the way the Mob asks for "protection money".
IANAL, so I don't know the exact wording, but sometime in the past the USA representative bodies/government decided that under certain conditions it is illegal. (and others like my own country) The in the 2000-2004 lawsuit it was proven that these conditions applied to MS. It happened before (Standard oil, American Tobacco Company, AT&T).

I'm unsure if your point is that antitrust laws should not exist, or that they should not apply to MS.

If you think those laws should not exist, I suggest you investigate why they were created, and maybe write your representative in your government to change this.

If you think they should not apply to MS, but you in general agree with them, then I think you should investigate why the laws were found to apply to MS.

Interesting information can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust


From petri.savolainen at iki.fi  Mon Oct  3 06:43:37 2005
From: petri.savolainen at iki.fi (Petri Savolainen)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:43:37 +0100
Subject: Python TNEF (winmail.dat attachment access) library?
Message-ID: <dhr1uh$5g8$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hello,

has anyone seen such a beast? I tried googling, PyPI, Parnassus etc. but 
could not find any pure-python code nor extensions to interface with any 
of the existing implementations.

I am thinking about taking the Ruby code I found at

http://www.zweknu.org/technical/index.rhtml?s=p%7c15

and converting that to Python. I have no experience with Ruby so this 
will be rather interesting...

I guess another option would be to use CTypes to plug into some tnef 
shared library/DLL. I'd prefer a pure-python route though...

Any pointers/recommendations appreciated.

Thanks,

  Petri



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Mon Oct 17 22:03:18 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:03:18 GMT
Subject: A Logging System for Python
Message-ID: <GJY4f.1929$dO2.1684@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

Dear all,

I have been looking for a logging system and have come across
http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html.

As the site refers to PEP 282, I assume this package is a potential
contender for integration in the Python distribution.

Am I correct and if so is there any trend to include it in Python 2.5 ?

Regards,

Philippe



From usenet at eikepreuss.de  Wed Oct 26 04:35:01 2005
From: usenet at eikepreuss.de (Eike Preuss)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:35:01 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djlule$gkd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pjv133-pjn.ln1@mail.binaryfoundry.ca>
	<djlule$gkd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <3s8t89FmdnriU1@individual.net>

David Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>But if *every* vendor has to make that same choice, there is no place for 
>>that other 5% to go to buy another operating system.  So the other 
>>operating system(s) die off.  And those 5% become customers of Microsoft 
>>since there's no other choice left.  And *that* is where the legal 
>>problems start:  they gained market share by preventing consumers from 
>>finding competing products.
> 
> 
>     Right, except that's utterly absurd. If every vendor takes their tiny 
> cut of the 95%, a huge cut of the 5% is starting to look *REALLY* good.
> 

Sure, that would be true if the market would be / would have been really
global. In practice if you have a shop you have a limited 'region of
influence'. Optimally you are the only shop in this region that sells
the stuff, or perhaps there are a few shops that compete with you. Lets
say in your region are two shops competing with you, and you must decide
wether to sell product A (95%) or B (5%), but you may not sell both.
Decision 1: Sell A, share the 95% of the local market with two -> about
32% of the local market for all of you, if all perform equally good
Decision 2: Sell B -> you get the 5% of the market, the others 47% each

This calculation is probably still a very bad approximation of the
truth, but things are definitely not as easy as you state them.

EP


From david at jotax.com  Thu Oct 27 13:56:32 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 10:56:32 -0700
Subject: Counting Threads
In-Reply-To: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130435792.701474.235570@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Just sorted (its always the way when you post isn't it)

But the count isn't doint what I expected.  I was after a increment
after every time the class was used ireespective of instance.  Instead
I get a count based on the instance usage.

Idea's anyone?

#
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
class ServerThreads:
    """
    Wrapper for thread handling.
    Thread ID 0 = Controller
    Thread ID 1 = Plant Object 1
    Thread ID 2 = Plant Object 2
    """

    GlobalThreadCount = 0

    def __init__(self):
        global GlobalThreadCount
        self.Threads = {}
        GlobalThreadCount = 0


    def launch(self, SubToLaunch, SubsArgs=(), SubsKwargs={},
AsDeamon=True):
        t = Thread(target=SubToLaunch, args = SubsArgs, kwargs =
SubsKwargs)
        t.setDaemon(AsDeamon)
        t.start()
        self.Threads[len(self.Threads)] = t           # Stash the
thread in an instance local

        global GlobalThreadCount
        GlobalThreadCount += 1
        print  GlobalThreadCount

    def globalusagecount(self):
        """
        Returns a count figure for how many threads are running in
total
        usnig this class.
        """
        global GlobalThreadCount
        return GlobalThreadCount


    def stop(self,ThreadID):
        t = self.Threads[ThreadID]
        t.stop()
        self.Threads.clear[ThreadID]

    def count(self):
        """
        Returns alist of how many threads are running in the instance
        """
        return len(self.Threads)

    def runningkeys(self):
        """
        Returns a llist of all running Keys
        """
        return self.Threads.keys

    def allOK(self):
        """
        Returns a list of all threads that are down  if any)
        """
        ThreadsDown = []
        for t in self.Threads:
            if not self.Threads[t].isAlive:
                ThreadsDown.append(t)
        return ThreadsDown



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 08:11:36 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:11:36 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<om61m1p2tfogeq8fvtt2mucrtstq3d5b2h@4ax.com>
	<djqce7$3r7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <5mg1m1ls1m030esk5sonu9rmncc8l4vsgm@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:07:50 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    That is a bit questionable, I admit. It is questionable because the 
>intent is pretty obviously to get the individuals more interested in being 
>nice to you than looking out for the interests of their employers when they 
>make their purchasing decisions.

I don't think this was as reprehensible as what MS did.  For a start,
everyone could refuse the trip if they wanted without dire
consequences. They could also refuse to go out partying each night
with the salesmen.  They could refrain from alcohol (as I did).

Even though I don't think in most cases the salesmen went so far as to
purchase hookers or lap dancers, they did after the evening's revelry
know something about the client that potentially could be very
embarrasing if it were revealed to a spouse, without the tiniest hint
of a threat to do so.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From jari.aalto at cante.net  Sat Oct 15 12:43:36 2005
From: jari.aalto at cante.net (Jari Aalto)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:43:36 +0300
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list of
	files)
References: <oe5rummb.fsf@blue.sea.net> <diqpng$k1o$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <br1qu3wn.fsf@blue.sea.net>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

> Jari Aalto wrote:
>
| > Please suggest comments how can I make this script to work
| > from bash.
>
> replace it with a call to the compileall module?
>
>     $ python -mcompileall [directory...]

Thanks, but that will not work. The files are gathered from discrete
places and I'd need advice why the simple -c options does
not accept the code inside parentheses.

Are there some restrictions in Python to use only "all in one line"? I
mean:

    python -c "command; command ...; command; ..."


Jari



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 06:06:05 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:06:05 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1945.1129109694.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dilbi9$4i3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Rune Strand wrote:

>> those modules are already imported when Python gets to your code, so
>> the only "overhead" you're saving is a little typing.
>
> I don't understand this. Could you please elaborate?  - if sys or os
> are not imported for any other causes how are they already imported?

because they are imported for Python's own purposes, together with lots
of other stuff:

    > python
    Python 2.4.2
    >>> import sys
    >>> sys.modules.keys()
    ['copy_reg', 'locale', '__main__', 'site', '__builtin__', 'encodings', 'os.path'
    , 'encodings.cp437', 'encodings.codecs', 'ntpath', 'UserDict', 'encodings.except
    ions', 'nt', 'stat', 'zipimport', 'warnings', 'encodings.types', '_codecs', 'enc
    odings.cp1252', 'sys', 'codecs', 'types', '_locale', 'signal', 'linecache', 'enc
    odings.aliases', 'exceptions', 'os']

(sys is a built-in module, btw, so the cost of importing that is always close to zero)

> It may be lousy, but it requires no imports. And, as I said in the
> answer to Steve, I _know_ there are many ways to achieve this,
> including yours. But in your rush to pin-point lousy code, you didn't
> read that, I suppose.

you know, being clueless is one thing, but being both clueless and arrogant is
not a good way to get anywhere.  I suggest spending more time learning things
(start with the language reference), and less time picking fights that leads no-
where.

</F> 





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 10 21:40:35 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:40:35 -0500
Subject: pyparallel and MAKE controller board for CRYDOM AC/DC switches
In-Reply-To: <xtE2f.19349$3w.3054@trnddc07>
References: <xtE2f.19349$3w.3054@trnddc07>
Message-ID: <20051011014035.GA21569@unpythonic.net>

Recalling the parallel pinout, pin 3 is data bit 2.  Have you tried
	def BIT(x): return 1<<x
	p.setData(BIT(2))
?

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From c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr  Mon Oct 10 04:21:48 2005
From: c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr (Peres)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:21:48 +0200
Subject: 2D graphics
Message-ID: <006a01c5cd73$a91c1450$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>

Hello,
As a Python beginner, I feel a bit lost among all possible libraries... so I wondered whether soemone could help me find my way... I just need to generate animated sequences of 2D primitives (dots and lines), as fast as possible, checking the computer clock for the time elapsed for each image, and checking the mouse click. 
Thanks a lot in advance for your help!

Valerie, 
a grateful Pythonner
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From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct  9 12:34:56 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:34:56 GMT
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1795.1128871062.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com><pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<NM92f.180798$p_1.25343@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.1795.1128871062.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QEb2f.180817$p_1.162457@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Ron Adam wrote:
> 
> 
>>In effect, 'cache' and 'fn' are replaced by the objects they reference
>>before the cached_result function is returned.
> 
> 
> not really; accesses to "free variables" always go via special cell objects
> (rather than direct object references), and the compiler uses special byte
> codes for all accesses to such objects.
> 
> this snippet illustrates the differences:
> 
> def func1():
>     return a
> 
> def func2(a):
>     return a
> 
> def wrapper(a):
>     def func3():
>         return a
>     return func3
> 
> def decode(func):
>     import dis
>     print func.__name__ + ":"
>     dis.dis(func)
>     print "co_freevars =", func.func_code.co_freevars
>     print "func_closure =", func.func_closure
>     print
> 
> decode(func1)
> decode(func2)
> decode(wrapper(10))
> 
> if you run this on a recent version of Python, you get something like:
> 
>     func1:
>       2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (a)
>                   3 RETURN_VALUE
>     co_freevars = ()
>     func_closure = None
> 
>     func2:
>       5           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
>                   3 RETURN_VALUE
>     co_freevars = ()
>     func_closure = None
> 
>     func3:
>       9           0 LOAD_DEREF               0 (a)
>                   3 RETURN_VALUE
>     co_freevars = ('a',)
>     func_closure = (<cell at 0x0092C970: int object at 0x008A537C>,)
> 
> note the use of LOAD_DEREF for the variable access.
> 
> Other opcodes include STORE_DEREF (that updates a local variable
> through a cell, used inside the "defining" scope), and MAKE_CLOSURE
> (which sets up the function object for functions that actually uses
> nested scopes; this is where the func_closure attribute is initialized).
> 
> (now, if I weren't limited to plain text, I could have drawn a nice little
> diagram for you, but that's an entirely different thread...)
> 
> </F>

Thanks Fred,  That's something useful to know when working with 
decorators I think.  And it should answer Stevens question too.

Abstract terminology is great once you already know the things and 
concepts it refers to.  But if you don't, finding where the abstract 
connects to reality is sometimes not easy.  There's nothing better than 
a good example to illistrate the concept.  ;-)

Cheers,
    Ron



From belred at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 02:02:55 2005
From: belred at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:02:55 -0700
Subject: bizarro world (was Re: Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
	(reprise))
In-Reply-To: <dii8hv$rsp$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129071507.829655.252340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dii8hv$rsp$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dii8ub$rsp$2@sea.gmane.org>

mr. xah... would you be willing to give a lecture at pycon 2006?  i'm sure you 
would draw a huge crowd and a lot of people would like to meet you in person...

thanks.



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct  6 17:55:37 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:55:37 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk751c.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E6695EF22B6duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<4344b80d.3321657210@news.oz.net>
	<slrndk9hup.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <43459965.3379345391@news.oz.net>

On 6 Oct 2005 06:44:41 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:

>Op 2005-10-06, Bengt Richter schreef <bokr at oz.net>:
>> On 5 Oct 2005 09:27:04 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>> It also is one possibility to implement writable closures.
>>>> 
>>>> One could for instace have a 'declare' have the effect that
>>>> if on a more inner scope such a declared variable is (re)bound it
>>>> will rebind the declared variable instead of binding a local name.
>>>
>>>That is one possibility, but I think that it would be better to use a 
>>>keyword at the point of the assigment to indicate assignment to an outer 
>>>scope. This fits with the way 'global' works: you declare at (or near) the 
>>>assignment that it is going to a global variable, not in some far away part 
>>>of the code, so the global nature of the assignment is clearly visible. The 
>>>'global' keyword itself would be much improved if it appeared on the same 
>>>line as the assignment rather than as a separate declaration.
>>>
>>>e.g. something like:
>>>
>>>var1 = 0
>>>
>>>def f():
>>>  var2 = 0
>>>
>>>  def g():
>>>     outer var2 = 1 # Assign to outer variable
>>>     global var1 = 1 # Assign to global
>>
>> IMO you don't really need all that cruft most of the time. E.g., what if ':='
>> meant 'assign to variable wherever it is (and it must exist), searching according
>> to normal variable resolution order (fresh coinage, vro for short ;-), starting with
>> local, then lexically enclosing and so forth out to module global (but not to builtins).'
>
>Just some ideas about this
>
>1) Would it be usefull to make ':=' an expression instead if a
>   statement?
Some people would think so, but some would think that would be tempting the weak ;-)

>
>I think the most important reason that the assignment is a statement
>and not an expression would apply less here because '==' is less easy
>to turn into ':=' by mistake than into =
>
>Even if people though that kind of bug was still too easy
>
>2) What if we reversed the operation. Instead of var := expression,
>   we write expression =: var.
>
>IMO this would make it almost impossible to write an assignment
>by mistake in a conditional when you meant to test for equality.
It's an idea. You could also have both, and use it to differentiate
pre- and post-operation augassign variants. E.g.,

    alist[i+:=2] # add and assign first, index value is value after adding

    alist[i=:+2] # index value is value before adding and assigning

Some people might think that useful too ;-)

Hm, I wonder if any of these variations would combine usefully with the new
short-circuiting expr_true if cond_expr else expr_false ...

Sorry I'll miss the flames, I'll be off line a while ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  6 07:18:43 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 11:18:43 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-06, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at nospam.web.de>:
>> Sure, But allow me this silly analogy.
>> 
>> Going out on a full test-drive will also reveal your tires are flat.
>> So if you one has to be dropped, a full test drive or a tire check
>> it would certainly be the tired check. But IMO the tire check
>> is still usefull.
>
> But you could write it as test - including not only a look (which 
> resembles the limited capabilities of typechecking), but testing the air 
> pressure, looking at the tyre type and see that it won't match the rainy 
> conditions...
>
>> Hey, I'm all for testing. I never suggested testing should be dropped
>> for declarations
>
> The testing is IMHO more valuable than typechecking. The latter one 
> actually _limits_ me. See e.g. the java IO-Api for a very bloated way of 
> what comes very naturally with python. Duck-typing at it's best.

But typechecking doesn't has to be java like.

I can't help but feel that a lot of people have specific typechecking
systems in mind and then conclude that the limits of such a symtem
are inherent in typechecking itself.

IMO a good type system doesn't need to limit python in any way.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From roy at panix.com  Fri Oct 21 22:10:20 2005
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:10:20 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<1129776956.254389.188040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-D8075E.23012819102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<89DF2CF9-408E-4D9E-8E43-003D23006C24@pengale.com>
	<mailman.2395.1129946268.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-79735D.22102021102005@reader2.panix.com>

Robert Boyd <robert.h.boyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> As if Plone, Zope, and (non-Python) Shibboleth weren't getting me
> enough funny looks. And I haven't even started telling co-workers
> about Django.

A couple of years ago, a head-hunter asked me if I knew Plone.  I figured 
he was just being an idiot and didn't know how to spell PL/1.  Silly me :-)


From viktor.marohnic at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 07:56:02 2005
From: viktor.marohnic at gmail.com (Viktor Marohnic)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 04:56:02 -0700
Subject: overiding assignment in module
Message-ID: <1130241362.081637.105410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello.
I would to do something like this.

container = []

p1 = point()
l1 = line()

and i would like to override = method of the module so that its puts
all objects into container.
how i can do something like that.
thanks for help,
viktor.



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 02:55:32 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:55:32 -0700
Subject: pickle
Message-ID: <1d987df30510242355k66dca1e9p6e3e1df9c2c6e981@mail.gmail.com>

I got a sample code and tested it but really can not understand the
use of pickle and dump:

>>> import pickle
>>> f = open("try.txt", "w")
>>> pickle.dump(3.14, f)
>>> pickle.dump([1,2,3,4], f)
>>> f.close()


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 16:07:35 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:07:35 -0400
Subject: wierd threading behavior
In-Reply-To: <f0_3f.18141$U51.10211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<f0_3f.18141$U51.10211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510181307p6b2ad9a2w1b2e44edb5a55241@mail.gmail.com>

[Qun Cao]
>> import thread
>> def main():
>>     thread.start_new(test.())
>>
>> def test():
>>     print 'hello'
>>
>> main()
>> "
>> this program doesn't print out 'hello' as it is supposed to do.
>> while if I change main()

[Neil Hodgson]
>    The program has exited before the thread has managed to run. It is
> undefined behaviour whether secondary threads survive main thread
> termination but it looks like they don't on your system.

In fact, they don't on most systems.

>    Use the threading module and call join to wait for all threads to
> complete before exiting the program.

That's a different story:  threads from the `thread` module have
entirely OS-specific behavior when Python shuts down.  Python knows a
lot more about threads from the newer `threading` module, & uses an
atexit() hook to ensure that the Python interpreter does _not_ go away
while a threading.Thread is still running(*).  IOW, Python does the
join() for you for threading.Thread threads -- there's no need to do
it yourself.

(*) Unless you explicitly mark it as a daemon thread.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 31 12:02:18 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:02:18 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>	<djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<4363b997.1286415918@news.oz.net>
	<dk0fd5$i1o$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2704.1130617005.509.python-list@python.org>
	<436541ce.1390422241@news.oz.net>
	<dk4gfk$so8$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <436645a8.1456944885@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:19:10 +0100, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> I still smelled a bug in the counting of substring in the overlap region,
>> and you motivated me to find it (obvious in hindsight, but aren't most ;-)
>> 
>> A substring can get over-counted if the "overlap" region joins
>> infelicitously with the next input. E.g., try counting 'xx' in 10*'xx'
>> with a read chunk of 4 instead of 1024*1024:
>> 
>> Assuming corrections so far posted as I understand them:
>> 
>>  >>> def byblocks(f, blocksize, overlap):
>>  ...     block = f.read(blocksize)
>>  ...     yield block
>>  ...     if overlap>0:
>>  ...         while True:
>>  ...             next = f.read(blocksize-overlap)
>>  ...             if not next: break
>>  ...             block = block[-overlap:] + next
>>  ...             yield block
>>  ...     else:
>>  ...         while True:
>>  ...             next = f.read(blocksize)
>>  ...             if not next: break
>>  ...             yield next
>>  ...
>>  >>> def countsubst(f, subst, blksize=1024*1024):
>>  ...     count = 0
>>  ...     for block in byblocks(f, blksize, len(subst)-1):
>>  ...         count += block.count(subst)
>>  ...     f.close()
>>  ...     return count
>>  ...
>> 
>>  >>> from StringIO import StringIO as S
>>  >>> countsubst(S('xx'*10), 'xx',  4)
>>  13
>>  >>> ('xx'*10).count('xx')
>>  10
>>  >>> list(byblocks(S('xx'*10), 4, len('xx')-1))
>>  ['xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xx']
>> 
>> Of course, a large read chunk will make the problem either
>> go away
>> 
>>  >>> countsubst(S('xx'*10), 'xx',  1024)
>>  10
>> 
>> or might make it low probability depending on the data.
>
>[David Rasmussen]
>
>> First of all, this isn't a text file, it is a binary file. Secondly,
>> substrings can overlap. In the sequence 0010010 the substring 0010
>> occurs twice.
The OP didn't reply to my post re the above for some reason
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/dd4125bf38a54b7c?hl=en&

>
>Coincidentally the "always overlap" case seems the easiest to fix. It
>suffices to replace the count() method with
>
>def count_overlap(s, token):
>    pos = -1
>    n = 0
>    while 1:
>        try:
>            pos = s.index(token, pos+1)
>        except ValueError:
>            break
>        n += 1
>    return n
>
>Or so I hope, without the thorough tests that are indispensable as we should
>have learned by now...
>
Unfortunately, there is such a thing as a correct implementation of an incorrect spec ;-)
I have some doubts about the OP's really wanting to count overlapping patterns as above,
which is what I asked about in the above referenced post. Elsewhere he later reveals:

[David Rasmussen]
>> If you must know, the above one-liner actually counts the number of 
>> frames in an MPEG2 file. I want to know this number for a number of 
>> files for various reasons. I don't want it to take forever.

In which case I doubt whether he wants to count as above. Scanning for the
particular 4 bytes would assume that non-frame-marker data is escaped
one way or another so it can't contain the marker byte sequence.
(If it did, you'd want to skip it, not count it, I presume). Robust streaming video
format would presumably be designed for unambigous re-synching, meaning
the data stream can't contain the sync mark. But I don't know if that
is guaranteed in conversion from file to stream a la HDLC or some link packet protocol
or whether it is actually encoded with escaping in the file. If framing in the file is with
length-specifying packet headers and no data escaping, then the filebytes.count(pattern)
approach is not going to do the job reliably, as Lasse was pointing out.

Requirements, requirements ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 31 22:11:32 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 03:11:32 GMT
Subject: Reuse base-class implementation of classmethod?
References: <9By9f.17396$65.522385@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <4366d5d7.1493855220@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:24:37 GMT, "Giovanni Bajo" <noway at sorry.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>what's the magic needed to reuse the base-class implementation of a
>classmethod?
>
>class A(object):
>   @classmethod
>   def foo(cls, a,b):
>       # do something
>       pass
>
>class B(A):
>    @classmethod
>    def foo(cls, a, b):
>         A.foo(cls, a, b)   # WRONG!
>
>I need to call the base-class classmethod to reuse its implementation, but I'd
>like to pass the derived class as first argument.
>-- 
>Giovanni Bajo
>
>
Maybe define a funny-class-method decorator?
(nothing below tested beyond what you see ;-)

 >>> def funnycm(m):
 ...     return property(lambda cls: m.__get__(type(cls), type(type(cls))))
 ...
 >>> class A(object):
 ...     @funnycm
 ...     def foo(cls, a, b):
 ...         print cls, a, b # do something
 ...
 >>> class B(A):
 ...     pass  # just inherit
 ...
 >>> a=A()
 >>> a.foo(1,2)
 <class '__main__.A'> 1 2
 >>> b=B()
 >>> b.foo(1,2)
 <class '__main__.B'> 1 2

Or more directly, a custom descriptor (with dynamic method replacement for good measure ;-)

 >>> class funnycm(object):
 ...     def __init__(self, f): self._f = f
 ...     def __get__(self, inst, cls=None):
 ...         return self._f.__get__(inst is None and cls or type(inst))
 ...     def __set__(self, inst, m): self._f = m  # replace method
 ...
 >>> class A(object):
 ...     @funnycm
 ...     def foo(cls, a, b):
 ...         print cls, a, b # do something
 ...
 >>> class B(A):
 ...     pass  # just inherit
 ...
 >>> a=A()
 >>> a.foo(1,2)
 <class '__main__.A'> 1 2
 >>> b=B()
 >>> b.foo(1,2)
 <class '__main__.B'> 1 2
 >>> A.foo(3,4)
 <class '__main__.A'> 3 4
 >>> B.foo(3,4)
 <class '__main__.B'> 3 4
 >>> a.foo = lambda cls, *args: repr(args)
 >>> a.foo('what','now','then?')
 "('what', 'now', 'then?')"
 >>> b.foo('eh?')
 "('eh?',)"
 >>> B.foo()
 '()'

Vary to taste ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct  2 05:51:47 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:51:47 +0100
Subject: Problems posting with urlencode
In-Reply-To: <dho9i7$5rq$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <5HN%e.61089$mb4.14795@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
	<dho9i7$5rq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dhoaji$7re$1@sea.gmane.org>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Joseph Chase wrote:
> 
> 
>>When I go and view the inserted record, the record exists, but the field
>>values are null.  It is my thinking that the backend needs the "id" value
>>for each input value; how do I add that data to the urlencode() call?
> 
> 
> since the id isn't part of the form data set:
> 
>     http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#form-data-set
> 
> that's a bit unlikely.
> 
> printing the params string might help you figure out what's
> missing.
> 

If there's no chance of putting any debug statements into the processing 
script you might consider using a proxy or submitting to a local server 
to ensure that you are submitting what you think.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From running.bare at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 17:03:44 2005
From: running.bare at gmail.com (Running Bare)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:03:44 -0400
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon [was Re: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum]
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
	<c5ednakvTPmrKKPeRVn-3g@dls.net> <3q7tg9Fdleo3U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <x7r7b5rlu7.fsf@erie.walnutbeach.com>

Ulrich Hobelmann <u.hobelmann at web.de> writes:

> When TV is turned off by a power failure, lots of people that
> usually never have sex start making love, and lots of people that
> usually use contraception lose their minds and forget about it.
>
> 9 months later more babies are born, unless that's also a myth.

http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/blackout.htm

    "Despite initial reports of New York City hospitals' seeing a
    dramatic increase in the number of births nine months after the
    1965 blackout, later analyses showed the birth rate during that
    period to be well within the norm."




From adelagon at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 05:30:13 2005
From: adelagon at gmail.com (Alvin A. Delagon)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:30:13 +0800
Subject: SOAPpy module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7578.1130403602.508.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.7578.1130403602.508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43609E25.4020908@gmail.com>

Hello fellow pythonista's! I would like to ask if there's any good 
people who had experience in using the SOAPpy module. I'm currently 
rewriting a SOAP client that is written in PERL which uses the 
SOAP::Lite module. I managed to fetch the XML response from the server 
but I'm getting XML parser errors. I turned on the SOAP debug mode so 
that I could check the Incoming SOAP message and it was ok. >:o

Has anyone experienced this? I'm googling like crazy these past few 
weeks just to find a solution to this predicament. Thank you in advance! 
:-)




From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 28 06:03:31 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 03:03:31 -0700
Subject: How to translate python into C
In-Reply-To: <1130493304.961498.226200@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130493304.961498.226200@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130493811.719479.160450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Szabolcs Nagy wrote:
> python creates bytecode (like java classes)
>
>
> you cannot translate python directly to c or machine code, but there
> are some projects you probably want to look into
>
>
> Pypy is a python implemetation in python and it can be used to
> translate a python scrip to c or llvm code. (large project, work in
> progress)
> http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/news.html
>
>
> Shedskin translates python code to c++ (not all language features
> supported)
> http://shed-skin.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Pyrex is a nice language where you can use python and c like code and
> it translates into c code. (it is useful for creating fast python
> extension modules or a python wrapper around an existing c library)
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

Thanks, Szabolcs. In fact, I want to reproduce a crush on cygwin. I
used a session of python code to produce the crush, and want to
translate it into C and reproduce it. Is the tools provided by you help
with these issues? Of coz, I'll try them first. :)

Regards, 
Johnny



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 03:09:30 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:09:30 -0700
Subject: Extending Python
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1559.1128534435.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h4371j.fuys6u9p47htN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:

> On Oct 05, Tuvas wrote:
> > I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C
> > code. I have an application built in C that I need to be able to use
> > in Python. I have searched through various sources, starting of
> > course with the Python site itself, and others, but I felt a bit
> > lacking from the Python site, it seems it was only made for those
> > who installed the source distribution, as for the other people...
> > Anyways, thanks for the help!
> 
> I have no experience with this, but I see that Alex Martelli's "Python
> In A Nutshell" has quite a few pages on the subject.

I also covered the same subject in a more tutorial (but less deep and
extended) way in articles for "Py" magazine, but I don't know if those
old issues of it are still in print.


Alex


From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Oct  3 13:26:51 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 18:26:51 +0100
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no> <Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>
	<dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>
	<mailman.1300.1128116615.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433e7898$0$49766$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
Message-ID: <fyricy04.fsf@pobox.com>

[Tor Erik S?nvisen]
> socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I look?

[John, finding 'socketmodule.c' responds well to "I'm Feeling Lucky"]
> Does google vary in its results across the globe?

[Michael]
> The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your google-fu
> is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack them at
> least...)

You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
"socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?


John



From andrea_gavana at tin.it  Thu Oct 13 15:58:26 2005
From: andrea_gavana at tin.it (Andrea Gavana)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:58:26 +0200
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
Message-ID: <008001c5d030$79890e40$5b923652@Gavana>

Hello Terry,

> new_hue   # your 'basic color', just the hue part
> rgb_base  # color from the basic button image
> rgb_new   # the new color you want to replace rgb_base with
> 
> rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb( (new_hue,) + rgb_to_hsv(rgb_base)[1:])

    thanks a lot for your suggestion! However, either I did not understand it correctly or I am doing something stupid in my code. Here is a small example:

from colorsys import *

# that is the old colour --> GREY
rgb_old = (0.7, 0.7, 0.7)

# Transform the new colour in HSV
hsv_old = rgb_to_hsv(rgb_old[0], rgb_old[1], rgb_old[2])

# this is the new colour --> BLUE
rgb_new = (0.0, 0.0, 1.0)

# Transform the new colour in HSV
hsv_new = rgb_to_hsv(rgb_new[0], rgb_new[1], rgb_new[2])

# I take only the Hue part of the new colour
new_hue = hsv_new[0]

# Get the new colour
rgb_new = hsv_to_rgb(new_hue, hsv_old[1], hsv_old[2])

print rgb_old
print rgb_new
print rgb_old == rgb_new


This prints:

(0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996)
(0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996, 0.69999999999999996)
True

So, no matter what colour I choose as a "new" colour, the Hue part of the new colour doesn't change in RGB. In other words, leaving the old value for "Saturation" and "Value" makes the presence of the "Hue" part useless. But why in the world does this happen? If a colour is defined by 3 values, changes in every single value should change the colour too... 
Ah, thanks God for the existence of RGB ;-)

Thanks a lot for every suggestion.

Andrea.

"Imagination Is The Only Weapon In The War Against Reality."
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/infinity77
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From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 16:08:02 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:08:02 -0400
Subject: security
References: <1130247483.668999.322640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86d5lt4axp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Mattia Adami" <am_public at email.it> writes:

> Hi to all.
> I'm intristing in write a plugin for browsers that can execute python
> code.
> I know the main problem is security. Many thread were opened about this
> in the ng.
> I would know if fork python rewriting some library could avoid
> problems. I.e. one problem is the possibility to access files. If I
> rewrite the open() function so that raises exception if the program try
> to access a file out of a defined directory.
> I'm sure not a security expert, so please be patient if my question is
> stupid.

People who *are* security experts have looked into modifying Python to
make it secure, and given up on the project as unrealistic. Generally,
taking an existing project that wasn't designed with security in mind
and making it secure is hard. Not impossible, but not easy.

You might consider using Jython and jythonc to produce objects to run
in the JVM. Not only was that designed with security in mind, but most
browsers come with a JVM already installed.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 14:06:51 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:06:51 +0200
Subject: unable to import os
References: <BAY101-F34FBE0905E65637D5FD2A6C7790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <dieajt$c68$1@sea.gmane.org>

Kim Nguyen wrote:

> Fredrik Lundh,I replaced  mtime = os.stat(Path + file_name)[os.path.stat.ST_MTIME]
> with mtime = nt.stat("q.py") per your suggested, then ran it from IDLE 2.4.2. Here is
> the message I got

oh, sorry, that was an example that accidentally slipped through.  I somehow
expected you to realize that if you wanted to stat some other file, you would
pass in another filename.

</F>





From joeyjwc at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 05:52:05 2005
From: joeyjwc at gmail.com (Joey C.)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 02:52:05 -0700
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2527.1130233031.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130232152.429900.109710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2527.1130233031.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130406725.833382.119660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Yes, I see that now.  I tried your method and it seemed to work fine
until I tried printing the filesize out.

def checkfilesize(thefile):
        # Check the Size of the File
  global filesize
  thefile.seek(0,2)
  filesize = thefile.tell()
  thefile.seek(0)
  print filesize
  print conf["upmax"]
  if filesize <= conf["upmax"]:
    print "File Size Okay."
    noupload = False
  else:
    print "File is too Large."
    noupload = True

Basically conf["upmax"] is a number that I extract from a configuration
file that is the maximum size of an upload.  I had tried setting
conf["upmax"] to 1 and it should have technically disallowed a 28 byte
file to pass through.  But it did, so I added two lines to print the
file size and the conf["upmax"] variable.
The file size turned out to be "0"!
thefile still is just params["upfile"].file, by the way.

Any suggestions?



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sun Oct  9 09:50:12 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:50:12 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Tim Tyler wrote:
<snip>
>>Only if your photos are so obscure and confusing that they need captions.
>>
>>"Here's Johnny with the dog. Here is Johnny with the dog again. This one
>>is Johnny on his own. Here is the dog. Oh look, it is Johnny with the dog
>>again -- that's the dog on the left, in case it isn't clear. Just for a
>>change, this is Johnny wearing a hat. It is blue with a feather in it,
>>in case you couldn't tell from, oh I don't know, looking at the actual
>>picture."
> 
> 
> What have you got against captions?
> 
> Giving photos captions is a *very* common practice.

Perhaps he has a search engine that can find blue hats in an image and 
recognize people?

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 24 16:16:36 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:16:36 -0400
Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
In-Reply-To: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
References: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <LaWdnS74PIO43MDeRVn-oA@powergate.ca>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> The following code outputs the actual HTML text to the browser, not the
> interpreted text.
> 
> html_ok = """
> Content-Type: text/html\n
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">\n

HTTP header lines must end with \r\n, not just with \n.  Not sure this 
is the solution to your specific problem though...

-Peter


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 11:38:01 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:38:01 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.15.37.59.229803@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:22:53 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:

> The flaw with this is that business owners don't get to decide what 
> the market wants.  And the market wanted the Microsoft OS.  Every 
> other OS in the market had bit player status, via the economic 
> principle called increasing returns. 
> 
> You either sell what the market wants, or you go out of business.

That is not true. The market was quite happy to buy competing products
such as DR DOS. What the market was not happy to do was buy DR DOS, but
pay for *both* DR DOS and MS DOS even though they only received DR DOS.

And that, in a nutshell, is why Microsoft's actions were illegal. They
were stealing from computer buyers: if you wished to buy an IBM-compatible
PC, you had to pay for MS DOS even if you didn't want it, and having paid
for it, there was no guarantee that you would receive it.

Most users didn't know that they were paying for MS DOS -- all they knew
was that MS DOS either came bundled with the PC automatically, or that if
they requested some other operating system, they ended up paying more
rather than less -- even when that other OS was cheaper than MS DOS.

Imagine that your corner store charged $1 for a Coke, $0.90 for a Pepsi,
and $5 for burger and Coke. If you asked for a burger on its own, the
price would still be $5. If you asked them for a burger and Pepsi, the
price would go up to $5.90 -- and the Coca-Cola company would still get
their dollar for the Coke you didn't get, plus another dollar for the same
Coke when the next customer bought it.

If only one or two stores did this, then the market would correct
itself: people who wanted Pepsi, or a burger without Coke, would go
elsewhere, and save a dollar. 

But in the case of Microsoft, there was no practical "elsewhere" to go to.
All the resellers did the same thing. Virtually the only alternative,
buying an Apple Macintosh, was more or less the equivalent of driving to
the next state to buy a $10 steak when what you wanted was a $5 burger.

The situation was, pay Microsoft for MS DOS or go without a PC. Since
users were either unaware of the situation, or unable to change it, they
did the rational thing: why pay for a Coke and then pay again for a Pepsi
if you just want any old drink? A few die-hard DR DOS supporters paid
double for the product they wanted, and helped enrich Microsoft. The rest
simply took the path of least resistance: if you're going to pay for a
Coke no matter what, you might as well drink it.

The thing with markets is that they only lead to efficient outcomes when
there is sufficient competition. That's why anti-competitive behaviour is
a bad thing, and is illegal in just about every country in the world.
(Whether the laws are enforced is another story.) A few people, blinded by
ideology, deny the evidence of their own experiences by insisting that
monopolies do no harm. 

See, for instance, the contrasting situation in hardware and software.

As compilers and other tools have evolved, it has become easier to develop
software. Distributing it has also become easier: in 1985, Word came
on five or six floppies worth perhaps a dollar each, with two or three
kilograms of paper manuals. Today, you get a single CD worth maybe twenty
five cents. In the case of Windows, often all you will get is a licence
number, not even the media. The cost of distributing Windows is
essentially zero. And yet over that same twenty year period, the cost of
the operating system has more or less doubled in price.

Hardware, on the other hand, has fallen in price by perhaps 90%, while
simultaneously becoming far more capable. The PC I bought in 1986 for
$4000 probably had less computing power than the DVD drive I paid $40 for
this year. 

There is one desktop operating system vendor with monopoly power. There
are hundreds of hardware vendors competing on price and features. Only
those blinded by ideology fail to see the connection.



-- 
Steven.



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Mon Oct 31 05:23:37 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:23:37 +0100
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndmbpc3.7jg.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<mailman.2722.1130752831.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndmbrvo.8f7.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Ben O'Steen enlightened us with:
> I think that the previous poster was asking something different.

It all boils down to floating point inprecision.

> If
>
>>>> t1 = 0.500
>>>> t2 = 0.461
>>>> print t1-t2
> 0.039
>
> Then why:
>
>>>> t1 += 12345678910
>>>> t2 += 12345678910
>>>> # Note, both t1 and t2 have been incremented by the same amount.
>>>> print t1-t2
> 0.0389995574951

It's easier to explain in decimals. Just assume you only have memory
to keep three decimals.  12345678910.500 is internally stored as
something like 1.23456789105e10. Strip that to three decimals, and you
have 1.234e10. In that case, t1 - t2 = 1.234e10 - 1.234e10 = 0.

> Using decimal as opposed to float sorts out this error as floats are
> not built to handle the size of number used here.

They can handle the size just fine. What they can't handle is 1/1000th
precision when using numbers in the order of 1e10.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From http  Mon Oct 10 08:01:17 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 05:01:17 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ville Voipio <vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi> writes:
> Just one thing: how reliable is the garbage collecting system?
> Should I try to either not produce any garbage or try to clean
> up manually?

The GC is a simple, manually-updated reference counting system
augmented with some extra contraption to resolve cyclic dependencies.
It's extremely easy to make errors with the reference counts in C
extensions, and either leak references (causing memory leaks) or
forget to add them (causing double-free crashes).  The standard
libraries are pretty careful about managing references but if you're
using 3rd party C modules, or writing your own, then watch out.  

There is no way you can avoid making garbage.  Python conses
everything, even integers (small positive ones are cached).  But I'd
say, avoid making cyclic dependencies, be very careful if you use the
less popular C modules or any 3rd party ones, and stress test the hell
out of your app while monitoring memory usage very carefully.  If you
can pound it with as much traffic in a few hours as it's likely to see
in a year of deployment, without memory leaks or thread races or other
errors, that's a positive sign.

> Well... Here the uptime benefit from using several servers is not
> eceonomically justifiable. I am right now at the phase of trying to
> minimize the downtime with given hardware resources.  This is not
> flying; downtime does not kill anyone. I just want to avoid choosing
> tools which belong more to the problem than to the solution set.

You're probably ok with Python in this case.


From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Fri Oct 14 14:55:09 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:55:09 -0300
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
Message-ID: <0ABD1968-3CE4-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

I am working with a text format that advises to strip any ascii control 
characters (0 - 30) as part of parsing data and also the ascii pipe 
character (124) from the data. I think many of these characters are 
from a different time. Since I have never seen most of these characters 
in text I am not sure how these first 30 control characters are all 
represented (other than say tab (\t), newline(\n), line return(\r) ) so 
what should I do to remove these characters if they are ever 
encountered. Many thanks.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 11 07:07:01 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:07:01 -0400
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1875.1129004912.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128969275.804305.193460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<oPednZskKuQBj9beRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.1875.1129004912.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434B9CD5.6050904@engcorp.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> And we definitely need "agile" in there. Bugger, I'll go out and come in 
> again ...

Used in the same breath as the word "bugger", I'm not sure the phrase 
"go out and come in again" is entirely appropriate for a family forum. ;-)

But I'm also not sure I ought to post that to the group, so I'll spare 
them and just inflict the thought on you!

Cheers,
-Peter


From email at christoph-haas.de  Mon Oct 24 04:37:33 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:37:33 +0200
Subject: testing '192.168.1.4' is in '192.168.1.0/24' ?
In-Reply-To: <1130142091.327886.163710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<JIGdnfUorPN14MHeRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<1130142091.327886.163710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510241037.34048.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Monday 24 October 2005 10:21, bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> thanks, that is basically what I am doing and since it is a recipe, I
> would assume there is no standard library module for it.

Well, http://py.vaults.ca/~x/parnassus/apyllo.py/126307487 lists a few.
I had used IPy in the past. But somehow nothing so far was a decent
substitute for Perl's Net::IP.

 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 14:42:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:42:18 +0200
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <dhuie5$npe$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mohammed Smadi wrote:

> if am using s.bind for a tcp socket.  On the client side i dont really
> care which socket i use as long as i get an available socket.  Is there a
> funciton or a way to get an available socket?

why are you using bind if you're on the client side?

</F> 





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 10 22:32:36 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:32:36 -0400
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1873.1128997559.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1873.1128997559.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tdGdna08393budbenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@powergate.ca>

Sebastian Bassi wrote:
> I don't understand why there is a new expression, if this could be
> accomplished with:
> 
> if C:
>  X
> else:
>  Y
> 
> What is the advantage with the new expression?

It actually is an expression, whereas your example shows a statement (so 
"this" could _not_ be accomplished with what you showed).

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 07:43:38 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:43:38 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com><pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <diavpd$bmq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I notice that type(some_closure) and type(ordinary_function) both return
> the same result, <type 'function'>. I also notice that both the closure
> and ordinary functions have an attribute "func_closure". Is there a way to
> tell which is a closure and which is not? In my tests, the ordinary
> function has func_closure == None, but I don't know if that will always be
> the case of just for my tests.

closure != function.

(did you read the wikipedia page?  the closure is a combination of the function
code itself, the information needed to call it, and the context it was defined in.
in Python, the full closure includes stuff you can reach via assorted attributes
on the function object; most notably func_closure and func_globals)

> If I wanted to inspect the value of cache, where would I find it?

nowhere.  at least no officially; see "Rebinding names in enclosing
scopes" in the design document for a discussion:

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0227.html

> That assumes that cache can be seen in this way. If it can't, is this a
> way to create "really private" variables in Python?

no, because Python doesn't prevent you from digging into the
internals:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440515

</F>





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 03:47:24 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:47:24 +1000
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.15.07.47.24.278124@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:52:07 -0700, Anthony Liu wrote:

> I have this simple string:
> 
> mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
> 
> I want to split it and give me a list as
> 
> ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

> I think the documentation does say that the
> separator/delimiter can be a string representing all
> delimiters we want to use.

No, the delimiter is the delimiter, not a list of delimiters.

The only exception is delimiter=None, which splits on any whitespace.

[Aside: I think a split-on-any-delimiter function would be useful.]

> I do I split the string by using both ' ' and '_' as
> the delimiters at once?

Something like this:

mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
L1 = mystr.split()  # splits on whitespace
L2 = []
for item in L1:
    L2.extend(item.split('_')

You can *almost* do that as a one-liner:

L2 = [item.split('_') for item in mystr.split()]

except that gives a list like this:

[['this', 'NP'], ['is', 'VL'], ['funny', 'JJ']]

which needs flattening. 

-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 03:14:51 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:14:51 +0200
Subject: While and If messing up my program?
References: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <dhvuhf$36m$1@sea.gmane.org>

"CJ" wrote:

>    What does worry me, is that I can't seem to get the program by a
> certain spot. It keeps giving me the same error, and I don't know why.

quite often, exception messages means exactly what they say; if
you get an index error, it's because you're trying to fetch an item
that doesn't exist.

for simple debugging, the "print" statement is your friend:

> ttllst=[4,3,45,3]
> cnto=0
> cntt=1
> rept=-1
>
> print cnto
> print cntt
> print ttllst[cnto]
> print ttllst[cntt]
> choice=raw_input("Begin? ")
> if choice == "yes" or choice == "y":
>     while cnto<>len(ttllst)+1:

           print cnto, cntt, len(ttllst)

>         if ttllst[cnto]==ttllst[cntt]:
>             rept=rept+1
>         if cntt==len(ttllst):
>             print ttllst[cnto],"appears in the list",rept,"times."
>             cntt=-1
>             cnto=cnto+1
>             rept=-1
>         cntt=cntt+1
>     print "done."

with that in place, I get

Begin? y
0 1 4
0 2 4
0 3 4
0 4 4
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 14, in ?
    if ttllst[cnto]==ttllst[cntt]:
IndexError: list index out of range

which means that your second list index (cntt) is too large.

figuring out how to fix that is left as an etc etc.

</F>

PS.  when you've sorted this out, you might wish to check out the
"count" method on list objects:

>>> help(list.count)
Help on method_descriptor:

count(...)
    L.count(value) -> integer -- return number of occurrences of value





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 22:25:02 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:25:02 GMT
Subject: Making "import" *SLIGHTLY* more verbose?
References: <mailman.2566.1130279679.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435ee6eb.970339684@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:34:37 -0700, Steve Juranich <sjuranic at gmail.com> wrote:

>First of all, just let me say that I'm aware of the "-v" switch for
>Python, and I don't want anything nearly that verbose.
>
>I often long for the following behavior from Python when I'm running
>interactively: When a new module is imported, I'd like the path to the
>file providing the module to be printed out to the screen.  If the
>module is already in sys.modules, then don't worry about printing
>anything.
>
>The best thing that I can think of to do is something like:
>
><python>
>__builtins__.__real_import__ =3D __builtins__.__import__
>
>def noisy_import(name, globals =3D globals(), locals =3D locals(), fromlist=
> =3D []):
>    printit =3D name not in sys.modules
>    mod =3D __real_import__(name, globals, locals, fromlist)
>    if printit:
>        try:
>            print '## Loading %s (%s)' % (mod.__name__, mod.__file__)
>        except AttributeError:
>            print '## Loading %s (built-in)' % mod.__name__
>    return mod
>
>__builtins__.__import__ =3D noisy_import
></python>
>
>Which seems to work okay for basic kinds of modules, but doesn't quite
>work right for modules that belong to a particular class.  Any
You want to go beyond just teasing, and tell us what "particular class"? ;-)

>suggestions on what I might be missing here?  I would imagine that
>this is a cookbook type thing, and if there are any references on how
>to do this, I'd greatly appreciate it (I couldn't come up with the
>right Google magic words).
>
>Thanks in advance for any help.
The imp module has a lot of info, and some example code that
might be useful.

I'm suspicious of the default values you provide in your noisy_import though.
They are all mutable, though I guess nothing should mutate them. But will they
be valid for all the contexts your hook will be invoked from? (Or are they actually
useless and always overridden?)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From vyzasatya at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 16:59:15 2005
From: vyzasatya at gmail.com (Vyz)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 13:59:15 -0700
Subject: How to run python scripts with IDLE
In-Reply-To: <1128701350.660096.244310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128690531.661166.102690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128701350.660096.244310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128718755.150612.303060@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to modify some of the tools to automate telugu wikipedia
maintainence tasks and I have realised that i cannot used cmd.exe as it
wont display unicode(atleast telugu). I will try the above and see if
it works. can I use the above command in IDLE??
Thanks for the prompt reply
Ravi



From howardrh at westerncom.net  Wed Oct 12 13:28:40 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 10:28:40 -0700
Subject: calling matlab
References: <mailman.1956.1129122707.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129138120.654955.167760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

There is a module named pymat avvailable from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pymat that provides a limited set of
functions for intertfacing Python to Matlab. The functions are:
open for opening a Matlab session
close for closing a Matlab session
eval for evaluating a Matlab command
put for sending a matrix to Matlab
get for getting a matrix from Matlab

Mohammed, you might want to look at this module to see if it has the
functionality you need.

Howard

Mohammed Smadi wrote:
> Hi;
>
> Does anyone know if we can call matlab for a python or bash script while
> feeding the matlab script some command line arguments?  I have an
> interactive matlab script which i want to automate by feeding the args
> from a script.
>
> I know this is probably more suitable to a matlab group but any ideas will
> be appreciated.
> 
> thanks
> moe smadi



From superprad at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 14:33:43 2005
From: superprad at gmail.com (PyPK)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 11:33:43 -0700
Subject: File compare
In-Reply-To: <434D9B93.7090300@websafe.com>
References: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434D9B93.7090300@websafe.com>
Message-ID: <1129314823.547736.132020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

but what if
case 1:
no.of keys in f1 > f2 and
case2:
no.of keys in f1 < f2.
Should'nt we get 1.1 if case 1 and 0.9 if case 2?? it errors of with a
keyerror.?



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 27 11:03:34 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:03:34 +0200
Subject: time conversion
References: <OB58f.33235$b55.1588325@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <djqq89$ja4$1@sea.gmane.org>

"flupke" wrote:

> Is there an easy to convert following hour notation hh:mm
> to decimals?
> For instance 2 hours and 30 minutes as 2:30 to 2,50
> I don't really know where to search for this kind of conversion.

you mean like

    >>> timestamp = "2:30"
    >>> hour, minute = timestamp.split(":")
    >>> print int(hour) + int(minute) / 60.0
    2.5

?

</F>





From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Oct 31 09:30:21 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:30:21 +0100
Subject: Need Python Pro for Help!! Plzz
In-Reply-To: <Xvp9f.25974$m%6.13990@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
	<Xvp9f.25974$m%6.13990@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43662A7D.1050302@ghaering.de>

Alex Hunsley wrote:
> blah at blah.blah wrote:
> 
>>Need python Pro at newtopython at googlegroups.com , if u wanna help, 
> [...]
> 2) Why should someone willing to help you enter into a private email 
> discussion? [...]

Actually, it's a Google Group mailing list (formerly eGroups):

http://groups.google.de/group/newtopython?lnk=sg&hl=de

Maybe the people who set it up didn't know that there is perfectly good 
mailing list for the same topic already:

http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

-- Gerhard



From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 14:06:34 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 11:06:34 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128404864.966640.323710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86y85ahs1j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1128404864.966640.323710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128449194.870589.232680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Myles Strous wrote:
> What's more, Tim Golden's wmi module (see
> http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html) makes getting at these
> numbers very easy:
>
> import wmi
> c = wmi.WMI ()
> for thingy in c.Win32_NetworkAdapter():
>   print "Network Adaptor", thingy.MACAddress
> for thingy in c.Win32_Processor():
>     print "Processor", thingy.ProcessorId
> for thingy in c.Win32_BIOS():
>     print "BIOS", thingy.SerialNumber
> for thingy in c.Win32_BaseBoard():
>     print "BaseBoard", thingy.SerialNumber
> for thingy in c.Win32_SystemEnclosure():
>     print "System Enclosure", thingy.SerialNumber
> for thingy in c.Win32_DiskDrive():
>     print "Disk Drive", thingy.PNPDeviceID
> for thingy in c.Win32_PhysicalMedia():
>     print "Physical Media", thingy.SerialNumber
>
> Regards, Myles.

Ah... thing of beauty.  One of these will probably make it into my
final solution.

Thanks millions!



From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 17:56:47 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 14:56:47 -0700
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130277407.831090.114870@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

It looks like I am going to have to bite the bullet and use properties.
The following should do what I want.

class test:

    def __init__(self):
        self.__HB = 0
        self.__VPG = 0

    def _get_HB(self): return (self.__HB, 'MF1', 0)
    def _set_HB(self, x): self.__HB = x
    HB = property(_get_HB, _set_HB)

    def _get_VPG(self): return (self.__VPG, 'MF1', 1)
    def _set_VPG(self, x): self.__HB = x
    VPG = property(_get_VPG, _set_VPG)

Usisg this I can set / and clear HB and VPG usig the syntax

t = test()
t.HB = 1
t.VPG = 0

and when I read them I get a tuple which holds the currcnt value in
position 0 and the other parameters I need in positions 1 and 2.



From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:40:09 2005
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:40:09 -0600
Subject: array subset could be improved? -repost ;)
References: <dioa3k$4g0$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <dip8jp$6rr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jim O'D wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> I have an array a=array([2,3,-1]).
> 
> I want to extract an array with all the elements of a that are less than 0.

Numeric is currently changing into the new scipy core.  If you are willing to
play with beta code, get it here:

http://numeric.scipy.org

if not, wait a little for an official release.

With the new numeric, you'll be able to do:

negatives = a[a<0]

Cheers,

f



From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 01:22:47 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> 
>> Which standards? W3C doesn't make standards (they talk about working
>> drafts and recommendations), so nothing to warp there for MS.
> 
> Umm, a recommendation *is* a standard.

No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they would 
call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it recommendations? Because 
it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML standard though, but when people 
babble about HTML standards they talk about W3C *recommendations*.

"Recommendation
Specifications published by the W3C. They cannot be officially called 
"standards," since the W3C is a consortium that does not have the status of 
the standard body reserved for the ISO and national standard bodies. The 
specifications, which are finalized and approved by the Director, are then 
called "W3C Recommendations.""
(Quote from an O'Reilly book)
 
> And Microsoft must disagree with you.

So that must mean you're right? Then wonder why there is an ISO standard 
(yes) for HTML.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From jason at jasonmhirst.co.uk  Sun Oct  2 11:18:36 2005
From: jason at jasonmhirst.co.uk (Jason)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:18:36 +0100
Subject: Distributing programs
Message-ID: <dhotob$fe0$1@sea.gmane.org>

A non-python programming friend of mine has said that any programs made 
with Python must be distributed with, or an alternative link, to the 
source of the program.

Is this true?



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Oct  5 08:26:46 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:26:46 +0200
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4343C686.5060206@ghaering.de>

Python_it wrote:
> I know how to insert values in a database.
> That's not my problem!
> My problem is how i insert NULL values in de mysql-database.
> None is een object in Python and NULL not.
> None is not converted to NULL?
> Table shows None and not NULL!

As Laszlo wrote, "None will be converted to NULL" for the Python => SQL 
direction. And also, NULL will be converted to None for SQL => Python 
direction.

And to avoid unneccessary if-then-else you should follow his advice and 
use parametrized queries. I. e.

cursor's execute method has two parameteres:

1) SQL query with placeholders
2) parameters

For example:

var1 = "Joe's dog"
cur.execute("insert into mytable(col1) values (%s)", (var1,))
var1 = None
cur.execute("insert into mytable(col1) values (%s)", (var1,))

if you use MySQLdb (the most sensible choice for a MySQL Python database 
adapter).

Because MySQLdb uses the pyformat param style, you use the %s 
placeholder always, no matter which type your parameter will be.

Also, the tip to read the DB-API specification 
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html is a good one in my opinion.
It really pays off to learn how to do things the DB-API way.

HTH,

-- Gerhard



From jabel at plus.net  Tue Oct 25 10:08:05 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:08:05 +0100
Subject: Security on XML-RPC
In-Reply-To: <1130243378.736452.270130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130243378.736452.270130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435E3C45.6090505@plus.net>

dcrespo wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Anyone knows a simpler but stronger control access to XML-RPC functions
>than the one I comment here?
>
>My actual system works like this:
>
>I have a TCP Server and an XML-RPC Server. Both of them verify if the
>IP address is allowed.
>
>The TCP Server works for validate and register an IP address if it
>wasn't validated previously, while the XML-RPC Server works only if the
>requester IP address was allowed through the mentioned TCP Server. This
>means, anyone who wants to connect to the XML-RPC Server has to pass
>the TCP Server.
>
>How a client connects to the TCP Server and authenticate his IP?
>
>Well, there is an interchange of encrypted data between the Client and
>the TCP Server, where, in few words, the client sends a UserName and a
>Password, all this through the send() function of the Socket
>connection. If the TCP Server authenticate an IP address, then that
>Client will be able to connect to the XML-RPC Server and use its
>defined functions.
>
>The problem I see here is that if I want someone to taking advantage of
>my XML-RPC functions, I have to tell him all these. I would like to get
>a strong but simpler way of doing all these.
>
>Thank you for reading and thinking.
>
>Daniel
>
>  
>
Not the most secure, but I have a modified XMLRPC Server/client using 
Digest auth, if that's any use?

J


From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Sun Oct  2 18:34:13 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:34:13 -0300
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
In-Reply-To: <nfWdnZFjUI72xt3eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <A89D0084-3394-11DA-A6BF-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

Hi.  Is anyone aware of any python based unacceptable language filter 
code to scan and detect bad language in text from uploads etc.

Many thanks.
David


From amk at amk.ca  Tue Oct 11 14:52:58 2005
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:52:58 -0400
Subject: Reminder: PyCon proposal deadline is Oct. 31st
Message-ID: <20051011185258.GC15094@rogue.amk.ca>

The deadline for PyCon proposals is now three weeks away;
proposals must be received by Oct. 31st.

Read the call for proposals for what we're looking for and how to submit:
<http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/cfp>

The proposal submission site is <http://submit.python.org>.

A.M. Kuchling
Chair, PyCon 2006
amk at amk.ca



From tinman31337 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 12:31:40 2005
From: tinman31337 at gmail.com (tin gherdanarra)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:31:40 +0200
Subject: slots? SLOTS?
Message-ID: <3r4s3cFhndjpU1@individual.net>

Dear pythonista,

what is a "slot" in python? I stumbled over
it in several meta-reflection discussions and
hard-core developer talk, but found no
mention of it in the language reference.

Google coughs up more interesting banter
about it, but no specifics. Is it a feature
that was once planned (for 2.2 or so) and
later abandoned? I find no *new* talk about
it.

Thanks for your attention
Tin


From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Tue Oct 25 10:09:29 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:09:29 -0400
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> I also think there is the problem that people aren't used to partial
> ordering. There is an ordering over sets, it is just not a total
> ordering. But that some pairs are uncomparable (meaning that neither
> one is smaller or greater) doesn't imply that comparing them is
> ill defined.

It depends on your definition of "comparison."  Admittedly, <, =, !=, 
and > can be defined for a partial ordering, but classical mathematics, 
as understood by most people (even programmers), assumes that unless a 
== b, a > b or a < b.

The comparisons, as defined this way, are done on a totally ordered set, 
yes.  But since most comparisons ever done -are- done on a totally 
ordered set (namely the integers or reals), it's entirely fair to say 
that "a programmer's expectation" is that comparisons should work more 
or less like a totally ordered list.


With that caevat in mind, comparison on a partially ordered domain /is/ 
ill-defined; it can give inconsistent results from the "a < b or a > b 
or a == b" rule.

> 
> Well it is a wrong assumption is general. There is nothing impure about
> partial ordering. 

Impure? Probably not.  Useless from many perspective when "comparisons" 
are needed, to the point where it's probably safer to throw an exception 
than define results.

> That is IMO irrelevant. The subset relationship is an ordering and as
> such has all characteristics of other orderings like "less than",
> except that the subset relationship is partial and the less than
> relationship is total. How it is called "subset" vs "less than" is
> IMO irrelevant. It is about mathematical characteristics.

Still accident.  < wouldn't be used for sets if we had a subset symbol 
on the standard keyboard, APL fans notwithstanding.  Simce programmers 
familiar with Python understand that < on sets isn't a "real" comparison 
(i.e. provide a total order), they don't expect unique, consistent 
results from something like sort (or a tree, for that matter).

> 
> 
>>By analogy, one can ask, "is the cat inside the box?" and get the answer
>>"No", but this does not imply that therefore the box must be inside the
>>cat.
> 
> 
> Bad analogy, this doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset
> relationship does.

Yes, it does.  Consider "in" as a mathematical operator:

For the set (box, cat-in-box)

box in box: False
box in cat-in-box: False
cat-in-box in box: True
cat-in-box in cat-in-box: False

For the set (box, smart-cat) # cat's too smart to get in the box

box in box: False
box in smart-cat: False
smart-cat in box: False
smart-cat in smart-cat: False

In both these cases, the "in" operator is irreflexive, asymmetric, and 
transitive (extend to mouse-in-cat if you really care about transitive), 
so "in" is a partial order sans equality.  A useless one, but a partial 
order nonetheless.


>>Notice that L1 and L2 contain the same elements, just in different orders.
>>Sorting those two lists should give the same order, correct?
> 
> 
> No. Since we don't have a total ordering, sorting doesn't has to give
> the same result. For as far as sorting is defined on this kind of
> object, the only thing I would expect is that after a sort the
> following condition holds.
> 
> for all i,j if i < j then not L[i] > L[j]

Highly formal, aren't you?  Again, common programming allows for "not a 
  > b" == "a <= b", so your condition becomes the more familiar:

for all i,j in len(list), if i < j then L[i] <= L[j]

This condition is also assumed implicitly by many other assumed "rules" 
of sorted lists, namely their uniqueness:

"If L is a list of unique keys, then sort(L) is a unique list of keys in 
sorted order."

Yes, this assumes that L has a total order.  Big whoop -- this is a 
matter of programming practiciality rather than mathematical purity.

>>Personally, I argue that sorting is something that you do to lists, and
>>that all lists should be sortable regardless of whether the objects within
>>them have a total order or not. If not, the list should impose a sensible
>>ordering on them, such as (perhaps) lexicographical order ("dictionary
>>order").

To reply to the grandparent poster here: that's not always easy to do. 
A "sensible order" isn't always easy to define on a set where a partial 
order exists, if it includes that order already.  Adding 
comparison-pairs to a partially ordered set (where incomparable elements 
throw an exception, rather than just return False which is confusing 
from sort's perspective) can easily result in a graph that isn't 
actually transitive and antisymmetric, i.e.:

A > B > C, but
C > D > A for some operator ">"

With this in mind, the only sensible thing for .sort to do when it 
encounters an exception is to fall back to its "backup" comparator (id, 
for example), and resort /the entire list/ using that comparator.  The 
results returned will then be valid by sort's comparison, but a subset 
of that list containing only "good" objects (like integers) may not (and 
probably won't be) sorted itself using the object's comparison.

The difficulty arises because while we may consider a single type to be 
fully ordered, it may also have some comparisons with other types; 
sorting the list by type, then value seems like it would work (and 
that's what the library does), but since we can sometimes compare across 
types, this may not give a valid comparison.  Consider:

[apple, wheat, cow]
apple < cow (defined, totally ordered)
Mammal > Grain > Fruit (accident of type id numbers)
apple < wheat throws TypeError, also wheat < cow

Since we encounter a TypeError when sorting this list, we first sort by 
type:
[cow, wheat, apple]
and would then sort-by-comparison within types, if we had more than one.

But since apple < cow, the sublist of this list [cow, apple] is not 
itself sorted.  This is paradoxical under a single comparison, because a 
sublist of any sorted list is itself supposed to be sorted.

The ordering that .sort used on the full list is well-defined and total, 
but it's also useless.


> But will all libraries sort the shelves in the same way. As far as I
> understand a book gets somekind of code in a library and books are
> sorted according to these codes. Now everybody sorts these codes the
> same way, but the attibution of the code may differ from library to
> library.

Irrelevant; if you swap the order of any two (nonidentical) books in a 
single library, then the library is unsorted.  The library has imposed a 
total order on books in its collection.

The library example is irrelevant, anyway; two books can always be 
compared by the keys (author last, author first/middle, [other authors], 
title, editor, year published, publisher, number of pages, colour of the 
brightest line in the cover's emmission spectrum at 2000k in spectral 
order [within visible spectrum]), and for the most part this is a useful 
keyspace.   Libraries just choose to impose a category/numbering at the 
head of the key.


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Fri Oct  7 02:26:53 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:26:53 GMT
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>

mike wrote:
> i'd like to use
> 
>    os.access(path,mode)
> 
> where path may contain linux style wildcards.

os.access(glob.glob(path), mode)


From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Oct 19 01:33:18 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 22:33:18 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks. Here's how the inner loop should be:

imgPaths2=map(lambda x: (x, re.sub( r"^(.+?)-s(\.[^.]+)$",r"\1\2", x)),
imgPaths)

though, now i just need something like

map( lambda x: os.path.exists(s)? x[1]:x[0],impPaths2)

but Pyhton doesn't support the
test ? trueResult : falseResult
construct.

(the semantic of this construct, of a conditional that RETURNS A
EXPRESSION, all in one line, is important in functional programing.
Perl supports it. In Mathematica, it's simply the form If[testExpr,
trueExpr, falseExpr]. In lisp, similar: (if testExpr trueExpr
falseExpr) )

is there a way to similate it?

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> what do you mean by one line ? Using map/filter, I believe it is
> possible.
>
> Somthing like:
>
> map(lambda (s,f): os.path.exists(f) and f or s,
>     map(lambda x: (x, re.replace(x, "-s","")), imgPaths)
>
> My regex is a bit rusty but I hope you got the idea of what I am trying
> to do. If there is a way to make the re return without destroying x,
> the outer map is not needed I believe(that is run it twice, once for
> getting the filename to do the testing, then again based on the testing
> result).
>



From kent37 at tds.net  Thu Oct 20 14:01:59 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:01:59 -0400
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

nephish at xit.net wrote:
> how ?
> i have tried to use unix timestamps, and i have also tried with
> DateTime objects
> do i need to use a scale that isn't linear (default in most) ?
> how do i putt this off ?

Here is some code that works for me. It plots multiple datasets against time. The input data looks like this:
2005-04-04 16:00:00 141.154.195.129 - W3SVC1 SP6018ASP2 208.254.37.191 443 GET /rkadqsr/newskills/newskills.cfm selectedTab=1 200 0 53440 599 1594 HTTP/1.1 adqsr.skillport.com Mozilla/4.0+(compatible;+MSIE+6.0;+Windows+NT+5.1) CookiesEnabled=1;+ASPSESSIONIDACTSSRAT=MCNLNLGADPOFGFKAHJHLDDKG;+CFID=785030;+CFTOKEN=27203160 https://adqsr.skillport.com/rkadqsr/login/login.cfm
2005-04-04 16:00:00 208.254.38.216 - W3SVC1 SP6018ASP2 208.254.37.191 443 POST /_rkadqsrBackend_od_cgi/aiccisapi.dll - 200 0 372 274 4547 HTTP/1.0 adqsr.skillport.com aiccisapi - -
2005-04-04 16:00:00 208.254.38.240 - W3SVC1 SP6018ASP2 208.254.37.191 443 POST /_rkadqsrBackend_od_cgi/aiccisapi.dll - 200 0 372 3019 250 HTTP/1.0 adqsr.skillport.com aiccisapi - -

import datetime, time
import Gnuplot

dataPath = 'ex05040416.log'

datasets = {}
startTime = None

f = open(dataPath)

for line in f:
    try:
        dat, tim, c_ip, cs_username, s_sitename, s_computername, s_ip, s_port, \
            cs_method, cs_uri_stem, cs_uri_query, sc_status, sc_win32_status, sc_bytes, \
            cs_bytes, time_taken, cs_version, cs_host, cs_User_Agent, cs_Cookie, cs_Referer = line.split()
    except ValueError:
        print "Can't parse", line
        continue

    tim = time.mktime(time.strptime(dat+' '+tim, "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"))
    delay = int(time_taken)
    
    if startTime is None:
        startTime = tim
    
    tim -= startTime
    
#    print tim, delay
    datasets.setdefault(sc_status, []).append([tim, delay])

g = Gnuplot.Gnuplot(debug=1)

plotter = g.plot
for key, values in datasets.items():
    plotter(values)
    plotter = g.replot
    
raw_input('Please press return to continue...\n')


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 24 09:18:31 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:18:31 +0100
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djimv3$cdl$1@sea.gmane.org>

jas wrote:
> Ok, I tried this...
> 
> C:\>python
> Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import subprocess as sp
>>>>p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
>>>>
>>>>result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
> 
> 'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> operable program or batch file.
> 
> 
> 
> basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
> store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
> an error with result.
> 
It looks to me like the line you thought you were typing at the Python 
command interpreter actually got snagged by the command processor you 
just ran, which presumably is taking its input from the console just 
like Python is.

> Ideas?
> 
Haven't used subprocess much yet, but I will just mention that this kind 
of thing always looks easy in principle and turns out to be surprisingly 
gnarly and difficult in practice.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't continue, but you are going to learn a 
*lot* as you proceed. Good luck.

regards
  Steve
[...]
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 03:40:24 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:40:24 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.07.40.22.796717@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:28:02 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>>>     Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car
>>> without an engine.
> 
>> That's a false analogy. A better analogy is, "go to your local car dealer
>> and see if you can buy a new car with the tyres of your choice."
> 
>     How is that better? Nothing in your car depends upon what tires you have 
> on. But all of the rest of the software on your computer is dependent upon 
> your choice of OS.

Within rather broad limits, you can put any tyre you like on your car, but
it is not practical to change your engine.

Within rather broad limits, you can run any OS you like on your computer.

Car manufacturers *like* the fact that there is enormous competition in
the tyre market. If (say) Bridgestone had an effective monopoly, they
could charge whatever they liked and car manufacturers would have to pay
it, or else not sell cars at all. So car manufacturers do not discourage
consumers from choosing their own brand of tyre. If you, the consumer,
cares enough to ask for Brand X tyres on your car, the dealer will fall
over himself to please.

PC manufacturers, on the other hand, do discourage consumers from choosing
their own brand of OS. As a result, the royalties they pay to Microsoft
per PC is frequently more than the profit they make. Most white-goods PC
resellers are lucky to make $50 profit on a PC, *before* wages.
(Presumably Tier One vendors make more than that, but not that much more.)

And that is the mystery that needs to be explained. H-P/Compaq, Dell,
Toshiba, and all the other Tier One and Tier Two vendors have no problem
selling servers without operating systems. Some will even pre-install
Linux on them for you. So why are consumers forced to make the choice of
either paying for Windows with their laptop, or no laptop at all?

You will notice that only 30% of servers run Windows (lots of competition
in the server market) and over 90% of desktops (no competition in the
desktop market). Coincidence? I think not.



-- 
Steven.



From eric.pederson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 15:44:20 2005
From: eric.pederson at gmail.com (eric.pederson at gmail.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 12:44:20 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
Message-ID: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

Finally diving into XML programmatically.  Does anyone have a best
practice recommendation for programmatically discovering the structure
of an arbitrary XML document via Python?

It seems like it is a common wheel I'd be re-inventing.

Thanks and cheers


EP



From allisfree at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 07:00:10 2005
From: allisfree at gmail.com (JackPhil)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 04:00:10 -0700
Subject: windows service problem
In-Reply-To: <4340fd3b$0$8938$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <1128330845.762679.66680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4340fd3b$0$8938$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1128337210.341363.114270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


fraca7 wrote:
>
> Make sure it doesn't output anything to stdout or stderr, I've run into
> problems with that. I always include this kind of code in NT services:
>
> class Devnull:
>      def write(self, bf):
>          pass
>      def close(self):
>          pass
>      def flush(self):
>          pass
>
> sys.stdout = sys.stderr = Devnull()

Thanks for your instructions. It's resolved my problem.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 12 04:56:44 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:56:44 +0200
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
In-Reply-To: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Out of random curiosity, is there a PEP/thread/? that explains why
> Python symbols are restricted to 7-bit ascii?

No PEP yet; I meant to write one for several years now.

The principles would be
- sources must use encoding declarations
- valid identifiers would follow the Unicode consortium guidelines,
   in particular: identifiers would be normalized in NFKC (I think),
   adjusted in the ASCII range for backward compatibility (i.e.
   not introducing any additional ASCII characters as legal identifier
   characters)
- __dict__ will contain Unicode keys
- all objects should support Unicode getattr/setattr (potentially
   raising AttributeError, of course)
- open issue: what to do on the C API (perhaps nothing, perhaps
   allowing UTF-8)

Regards,
Martin


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 26 09:15:17 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:15:17 -0400
Subject: a Haskell a Day
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<aaidnTo6OOM1pcLeRVn-sg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <86zmow1kt6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> Xah Lee wrote:
>> This is my learning notes on Haskell. I call it a-Haskell-a-day.

Interesting. Xah Lee's orginals don't show up in the Python
newsgroup. No big loss.

In any case, please help google find Xah Lee under the proper search
terms. Add a link to his website with the anchor "stupider than spam".
A typical usage might be:

    And pointing out that some people are <a
    href="http://xahlee.org/">stupider than spam</a>.

    Thanks,
    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 19 13:45:51 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:45:51 +0100
Subject: Threads and socket.setdefaulttimeout
In-Reply-To: <1129742832.414652.104230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128030031.130958.185620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1238.1128067318.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129142005.610543.212180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1980.1129146536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129742832.414652.104230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj60oa$1m4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Russell Warren wrote:
> Thanks for the detailed repsone... sorry for the lag in responding to
> it.
[discussion of problems with timeouts on threaded code's sockets]
> 
> Not quite what I was after I don't think since potentially interfering
> code needs to check the lock (via acquire) to avoid conflict.  What I
> guess I mean is something general for the process saying "never ever
> interrupt this block og code by running code on another thread,
> regardless of whether the other thread(s) check a lock".  Thinking more
> about it it seems unreasonable so I'll drop the question.
> 

Well, I'm about out of ideas, but c.l.py is a very inventive group, so 
maybe someone else will be able to contribute a bright thought. Anyone?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  3 12:43:35 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:43:35 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <20051003203035.486348a9.jk@ospaz.ru>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.11645	3@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<434084	3b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99
	f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E4	5EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xn	s96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<20051003203035.486348a9.jk@ospaz.ru>
Message-ID: <dhrn3h$c6u$1@sea.gmane.org>

en.karpachov at ospaz.ru wrote:
> On 3 Oct 2005 13:58:33 GMT
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
> 
>>People often promote unittesting here. Writing all those unittest is
>>an added burden too. But people think this burden is worth it.
>>
>>I think writing declaration is also worth it. The gain is not as
>>much as with unittesting but neither is the burden, so that
>>balances out IMO
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> Some people just don't get the simple fact that declarations are
> essentially kind of unit test you get for free (almost), and the compiler
> is a testing framework for them.
> 
Hmm. Presumably introspection via getattr() is way too dangerous, then? 
Might as well throw the function away ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct  5 08:28:34 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:28:34 +1000
Subject: While and If messing up my program?
References: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
	<1128496212.482205.8380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.05.12.28.33.164751@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 00:10:12 -0700, ajikoe at gmail.com wrote:

> hi,
> 
> to get howmany element list appear you can code:
>     ttllst=[4,3,45,3]
>     for x in ttllst:
>         print x, ttllst.count(x)
>     pass
> 
> to get non duplicate element list you can code:
>     ttllst=[4,3,45,3] 
>     print list(set(ttllst))

These are excellent things to use in Python, but for learning programming
skills, they are terrible because they rely on black boxes to do
everything.

I remember once having to code a matrix division algorithm in "the
language of your choice" for a comp sci course. So of course, being a
smart arse, I programmed it in the HP-28S calculator programming language,
which just happened to have matrices as a native object type, complete
with division.

I answered the question exactly, and learnt absolutely nothing from the
exercise. (For the record, I failed that course.)

It is good to tell the original poster how he should be implementing the
code he is trying to write, but that is not as important as helping him
work out where the code is going wrong.

In this case, the problem is that C.J. carefully checks that his indexes
are within the valid range for the list, but (s)he makes that check
*after* attempting to use the indexes. So the code fails before it reaches
the test.

-- 
Steven.




From do-not-use at invalid.net  Thu Oct 27 02:13:15 2005
From: do-not-use at invalid.net (Niklas Norrthon)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:13:15 +0200
Subject: a Haskell a Day
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130312943.717481.217200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0pwtjz4hdw.fsf@niklas.ua.dynas.se>

usenet at DavidFilmer.com writes:

> Xah Lee wrote:
> > I hope you will join me in learning Haskell.
> 
> I think the folks here are more interested in Perl. There's a reason
> why this newsgroup is called lc("comp.lang.PERL.misc").

Or python, or c, or java, or unix programming. There is a reason
why this is called cross posting.

/Niklas Norrthon


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 14 13:51:38 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:51:38 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2076.1129307586.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <863bn4t2ad.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Adriaan Renting" <renting at astron.nl> writes:

>>>>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> 10/14/05 5:39 pm >>> 
> $"Adriaan Renting" <renting at astron.nl> writes: 
> $[On Qt] 
> $>I don't know how it performs on OSX, I think it works fine, as Qt is 
> $>available on OSX. 
> $ 
> $Qt on OS X is halfway there. It looks - and acts - like an aqua 
> $application. However, to support the Command key, they hacked things 
> $so that it is reported to the upper layers as the Control key. This 
> $means that there's no way to get to use the control key in the UI for 
> $qt apps on OS X. 
> $ 
> $This really rapes apps with configurable shortcuts. For instance, LyX 
> $comes with a couple of emacsish bindings. You can turn them on, but 
> $you have to use Command-key instead of Control-key, which pretty 
> $thoroughly defeats the purpose. 
> $ 
> $          <mike 
>
> You have the problem that some keyboard layouts have OS specific
> keys (Windows key, menu key on some PCs, Command key on apples)
> which you can't support in a cross-platform way. If using
> Command-Letter is the standard way of having keyboard shortcuts in
> OS X, then I think I can understand why they choose this
> implementation,. I suppose the Command key is more integrated into
> the OS as is the Windows key in Windows. I think it would be nice if
> you could choose the mapping.

It's quick and dirty and does the right thing for applications that
follow the UI guidelines on Windows and OS X. Generally,
Command-lumberjack on OS X does the same thing as Control-lumberjack
does on Windows or other CUA platform. If you want to let users bind
keystrokes, then they're out of luck.

> The basic problem is that a widget toolkit that supports
> control/shift/alt/command as meta-keys can not be cross-platform, as
> the command key has no equivalent in windows or linux. How do the
> other widget toolkits handle this, do they ignore the Command key?
> What does Linux PPC/YellowDog do with the Command key?

I really can't say, but it seems like the obvious way to do it is to
have the lower levels define the appropriate bucky bits for all
platforms. No platform will generate all those bits, but so what? That
just means youv'e got some symbols defined that won't be used on some
platforms. Actually, since there undoubtedly exists systems that can't
generate all the bucky bits for any given platform, that's "some more
symbols ...".

But I'm not a GUI designer, so there may be reasons for not doing it
that way that I can't see.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Fri Oct 21 14:47:36 2005
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:47:36 +0200
Subject: Help with language, dev tool selection
References: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051021184736.31FE.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com wrote:

> 1)    What programming language to use

This is trivial task, whatever language you choose, will do it.
Python too, and its also simple and popular, so i can recommend it.

> 2)    What development tools to use

You don't need nothing beyond python interpreter. 

> 3)    Tips on how to code the solution

Read the python tutorial (www.python.org) and thats probably all you need to
know.

> For each record I have to create an html file that will be named as the
> name of the town (i.e. Sarajevo.html). The content of the file will be
> rather simple; in the first row it will contain the header (i.e.
> "This page displays longitude-latitude information") - The second
> row will have the following word: "Grad" - and the third row will
> contain the name of the city and the fourth row will have the
> longitude-latitude info.

Its maybe 10-20 lines of trivial code, so i suggest you to read python
tutorial, unless its only do-it-once operation. 

Do you really need to create 30k files? this will take a lot of time
(creating a file is time-consuming operation on creation, sending them to
server too) and disk space greedy - even if file has 300 bytes, it may take
4kb or more on disk, depending on filesystem and its settings.
Perhaps collecting names starting with the same letter in single file will
be enough.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

Ankh if you love Isis.


From johnww at worldpath.net  Tue Oct 18 11:37:41 2005
From: johnww at worldpath.net (John Wingate)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:37:41 -0000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
	<8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com> <azGVDpHpvOIa092yn@visi.com>
Message-ID: <11la5m52qm2i352@corp.supernews.com>

Richard Steiner <rsteiner at visi.com> wrote:
> Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
> John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> spake unto us, saying:
> 
>>Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
> 
>>> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
>>> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?
>>
>>Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.
> 
> MS-DOS 3.3 was the most popular DOS release back in 1987/1988.  I don't
> recall there ever being a 3.4 release, though.

You snipped the bits that provide the context showing that here Peter and I
were talking about versions of SunOS, not MS-DOS.

I too don't recall an MS-DOS 3.4.  The Victor/Sirius version I mentioned
was definitely 3.10 (three point ten)--the version byte was hex 030A.
Perhaps the gap in sequencing was introduced to separate the versions
for IBM-compatible machines from the versions for non-IBM-compatible
machines.

-- 
John Wingate                        Mathematics is the art which teaches
johnww at worldpath.net                one how not to make calculations.
                                                         --Oscar Chisini


From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Thu Oct  6 10:19:51 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:19:51 -0400
Subject: PyObject_New
Message-ID: <1128608391.7548.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hey guys, sorry to ask another question of this nature, but I can't find
the answer or a single example of it anywhere. I'm sure it's been asked
before, but my google-fu isn't strong enough to find anything.

I have the following:

	struct MyType {
		PyObject_HEAD
		...
	};

	PyTypeObject PyType_MyType = { ... }

Now, elsewhere in the code I want to create an instance of this custom
type in C/C++ (rather than in the Python interpreter, where this all
seems to happen magically) and return it from a method. What I'm trying
now is the following:

	PyObject* obj = _PyObject_New(&PyType_MyType);
	obj = PyObject_Init(obj, &PyType_MyType);
	
	...

	return obj;

When "obj" gets back to the interpreter, Python sees it (or rather, it's
__repr__) in accordance with what it "should" be. However, any attempt
to USE the object results in a segfault. I feel my problem is simply
that I'm not allocating "obj" correctly in the C++ function.

If anyone has any advice, I would really appreciate it.



From hagai26 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 17:44:31 2005
From: hagai26 at gmail.com (hagai26 at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 14:44:31 -0700
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2322.1129838576.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2322.1129838576.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130017471.076146.203600@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The RE way, was much slower
I used the spilt, it was better
I tought because there was no need to take it to the memory again, but
it just my thougth



From pd at traxon.com  Fri Oct 28 04:22:24 2005
From: pd at traxon.com (Paul Dale)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:22:24 +0200
Subject: xml.dom.minidom - parseString - How to avoid ExpatError?
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510270749x2685c686w3f033a5f151a903a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>	<312cfe2b0510260738j460b075ch998371a460c39df8@mail.gmail.com>	<435F9C6C.50707@plus.net>	<312cfe2b0510261020w1d485c98m526e325d6ada1082@mail.gmail.com>	<43608B8F.1000506@plus.net>
	<312cfe2b0510270749x2685c686w3f033a5f151a903a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4361DFC0.9050906@traxon.com>


Hi Greg,

Not really an answer to your question but I've found 4Suite ( 
http://4suite.org/index.xhtml ) quite useful for my XML work and the 
articles linked to from there authored by Uche Ogbuji to be quite 
informative.

Best,

Paul

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:

> Thanks, John.  That was all very helpful.  It looks like one option 
> for me would be to put cdata[ around my text with all the weird 
> characters.  Otherwise running it through on of the SAX utilities 
> before parsing might work.
>
> I wonder if the sax utilities would give me a performance hit.  I have 
> 6000 xml files to parse at 100KB each.
>
> -Greg
>


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 18 22:23:40 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:23:40 -0400
Subject: Dealing with Excel
In-Reply-To: <1129679183.469734.151920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2234.1129674078.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129679183.469734.151920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <WKmdnXW_6eSPM8jeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

Robert Hicks wrote:
> No, I have to format fields and everything sad to say. Another poster
> up the chain of this posting gave me the nudge in the direction I
> needed.

Doesn't Excel also support (in addition to binary .xls and simple text 
.csv files) an XML format, which allows full access to formatting and 
all other such features?  I would assume it's reasonably well documented 
and you could just generate that output directly.

-Peter


From sunspire at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 08:07:13 2005
From: sunspire at gmail.com (Max Rybinsky)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 05:07:13 -0800
Subject: lambda functions within list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <1h57c0h.kcl38fefrcdrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130621124.101346.67750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57711.1t6uely1atckigN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130624219.667062.290740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57c0h.kcl38fefrcdrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130677633.449893.131080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

OK.
The thing i've got is an obscure semantic bug, occured because of my
unawareness of the following Python "features":
1. (In major)
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-September/056508.html
2. "late" bindings of the function's body

Got to know! :)

Thanks for your attention.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 14 11:29:17 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:29:17 +0100
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <s34fdbc8.062@server7.nfra.nl>
References: <s34fdbc8.062@server7.nfra.nl>
Message-ID: <dioisc$tuk$1@sea.gmane.org>

Adriaan Renting wrote:
[which GUI toolkit?]
>>>>Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> 10/13/05 10:17 pm >>> 
> 
> Is there any emerging consensus on the "best" UI for toolkit.  Tk  
> never quite made it but from what I can see, both qt and wxWin are  
> both doing fairly well in general. I'm already aware of the licensing  
> issues surrounding qt (fwiw, I think their license fee for commercial  
> use is eminently reasonable), so aside from that, I was wondering if  
> there was any feedback readers could provide on the following: 
>  
> 1) Which plays best with Python? Ideally, it would already have some  
> higher-level python libraries to hide the grotty stuff that is almost  
> never needed when actually implementing apps. 
>  
> 2) Reliability of each? 
>  
> 3) Useful external libraries for each? 
>  
> 4) Ease of installation/use on OS X? 
>  
> Something with a genuinely useful text widget would be nice, but I  
> know that's too much to expect...ah, TkText widget, where are you  
> when I need you. 
>  
Hmm. The only real answer is to make a choice and stick with it until 
you have enough experience to determine whether it was a good decision 
or not - all platforms have advantages and disadvantages.

For the record, having tried several toolkits and GUI builders I have 
recently decided to settle (for the moment) on wxPython and wxDesigner 
(the latter is a modestly-priced commercial product that represents very 
good value for money).

While wxDesigner doesn't do everything you might want it seems to be 
better than anything else I've come across for building resizable 
dialogues and panels, which are readily used as components in other more 
complex windowed application structures.

Just my 2c, though.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From jaydonnell at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 11:54:37 2005
From: jaydonnell at gmail.com (jdonnell)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:54:37 -0700
Subject: strange problems with urllib2
In-Reply-To: <a0s0m1941dqut0398efaga5h2ncrlllb78@4ax.com>
References: <1130364688.010192.39650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<a0s0m1941dqut0398efaga5h2ncrlllb78@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130428477.452260.101680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I haven't checked them, but will do it now. However, I don't have
problems with anything but python. I can download that image in less
than a second with wget or in my browser. I know that I had ipv6
problems before. I had to turn it off because of my nat router so I'll
look into that sort of thing.



From wholcomb at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 13:17:03 2005
From: wholcomb at gmail.com (Will)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 10:17:03 -0700
Subject: subprocess exiting in an incomprehensible fashion
In-Reply-To: <20051021194237.3AA2.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
References: <1129916005.543449.305390@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051021194237.3AA2.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1130001423.239130.285920@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well, I'll be damned... Thank you very much. I'm still getting a little
tripped up with blocking IO and whatnot, but I think I can work that
out. This was a real help, thanks again.

#!/usr/bin/python
# -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-

import subprocess
import random
import re
import os
import time
import select

calc = subprocess.Popen("dc", stdin=subprocess.PIPE,
                              stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
                              stderr=subprocess.STDOUT)
max = random.Random().randint(10, 100)
for value in range(1, max):
    calc.stdin.write("%d\n" % value)
    if value > 1:
        calc.stdin.write("*\n")
calc.stdin.write("p\n")

select.select([calc.stdout.fileno()], [], [])
time.sleep(.1) # Still not always getting the result

string = os.read(calc.stdout.fileno(), 500)

print "String: ", string
dcproduct, repcount = re.subn("\\\|\\s", "", string)
dcproduct = int(dcproduct)
pyproduct = reduce(lambda x,y: x * y, range(1, max))
if dcproduct == pyproduct:
    print "?(1,%d):" % (max - 1)
else:
    print "Products don't match: n = %d" % (max - 1)
print "  %d" % dcproduct
print "  %d" % pyproduct

calc.stdin.write("q\n")
status = calc.wait()
print "Exited with: %d" % status



From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Oct 12 22:24:01 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 19:24:01 -0700
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
In-Reply-To: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129170241.274868.45680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Sorting in Perl

In Perl, to sort a list, do like this:

@li=(1,9,2,3);
@li2 = sort {$a <=> $b} @li;
print join(' ', @li2);


In Perl, sort is a function, not some Object Oriented thing. It returns
the sorted result as another list. This is very simple and nice.

It works like this: sort takes the form ?sort {...} @myList?.
Inside the enclosing braces is the body of the ordering function, where
variables $a and $b inside are predefined by the language to represent
two elements in the list. The operator ?<=>? returns -1 if left
element is less than right element. If equal, it returns 0, else 1. It
is equivalent to Python's ?cmp? function.

Perl provides another comparison operator ?cmp?, which treats its
operands as strings. So, for example:

print "3" <=> "20"; # prints -1
print "3" cmp "20"; # prints 1


In Perl, numbers and strings are mutually automatically converted if
needed.

Another form of sort is ?sort orderFunctionName @list?, which uses
a function name in place of the comparison block

Just for completeness, let's define a Perl equivalent of a Python
example above.

@li=(
'my283.jpg',
'my23i.jpg',
'web7-s.jpg',
'fris88large.jpg',
);

# sorts a list of strings by their embedded number
@li2 = sort { ($a=~m/(\d+)/)[0] <=> ($b=~m/(\d+)/)[0];} @li;
print join(' ', @li2);  # prints web7-s.jpg my23i.jpg fris88large.jpg
my283.jpg


Note, that Perl also has pure functions (lambda) construct. In Perl, a
pure function is simply done as ?def {...}?, and applied to
argument by the form ?pureFunction->(args)?. Unlike Python, Perl
has no limitation in its pure function construct. Because of this, Perl
supports a limited form of functional programing. Here's a simple
example:

$result = sub($) {$_[0]+1}->(3);
print $result; # prints 4
# a value obtained by a pure function that adds 1 to its argument,
# applied to a argument of 3.


Perl, like Python, whose compiler is not very smart. In sorting, the
ordering function is called unnecessarily repetitiously. Like Python,
Perlers have sought means to avoid this penalty. If the programer knew
in advance that his matrix is huge or knew in advance his ordering
function, then he can code his sort by writing it using a very complex
workaround.:

Here's how this work around works: Suppose you want to sort a huge list
with a expensive ordering function. If you simply do ?sort
orderingFunction @myList?, then Perl is going to call your
orderingFunction wantonly, and you lose. To beat Perl, you first
generate a copy newList, whose elements are pairs (x,y), where x is
from the original list, and y is the sorting key extracted from x.
Then, you call Perl's sort function on this newList and using a
ordering function based on the second list element (the y). Once this
newList is sorted, you construct your original list by extracting the
first element from this sorted newList. Here's the code example:

# the following two lines are equivalent
@li2 = sort { ($a=~m/(\d+)/)[0] <=> ($b=~m/(\d+)/)[0];} @li;
@li2 = map { $_->[0] } sort { $a->[1] <=> $b->[1] } map { [ $_,
($_=~m/(\d+)/)[0] ] } @li;


In the above Perl code, the part ?map { [ $_, ($_=~m/(\d+)/)[0] ] }
@li;? generates the intermediate newList. Then, sort is applied to
it, then, another map ?map { $_->[0] }? gets the original list
sorted.

In this way, the cost of the internals of the ordering function is
avoided. (it runs on each list element once) However, your huge list is
copied 1 extra time. So, there are pros and cons. Because this work
around is very complex in both its semantics and syntax, it has
acquired a coolness factor among Perl coders, and is given the name
Schwartzian Transform.

It is interesting to note what compiler flaws can do to imperative
languages and its people. In Python, the language syntax is tainted. In
Perl, a complex construct is invented. In both camps, the basic
mathematics of sorting and its implementation aspects are completely
belied.

For the official doc of Perl's sort, type on the command line:
?perldoc -f sort?.
---------
this post is archived at:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 21 11:25:52 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:25:52 +0200
Subject: Compile C program -> .pyc file
References: <1129905417.451369.114840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djb1a0$k7d$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Ernesto" wrote:

> Is there a way to compile a C program into a .pyc file that has the
> same behavior as the compiled C program?

unless you find a C->Python compiler, no.  PYC files contain Python bytecode,
C compilers usually generate native code for a given machine platform.

</F> 





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Oct 29 13:08:07 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:08:07 +0200
Subject: Building 2.4.2 on OpenBSD 3.8
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.29.16.27.25.846000@wolf.com>
References: <pan.2005.10.29.16.27.25.846000@wolf.com>
Message-ID: <4363ac77$0$15413$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Dan M wrote:
> /usr/include/sys/event.h:53: error: syntax error before "u_int"
> /usr/include/sys/event.h:55: error: syntax error before "u_short"
> *** Error code 1
> 
> Stop in /usr/local/src/Python-2.4.2.
> 
> immediately upon running "make". I took at look at event.h to see if I
> could find and fix the problem, but the error isn't immediately apparent
> to me.

In that case, it would help if you would report what line 53 of event.h
precisely is. Typically, if it says "syntax error before", it means
"immediately, right away before", or "the error actually is *in*
u_int" (the latter indicating that u_int is not defined at that point).

Generating a preprocessor output then helps, seeing whether something
got #define'd in some strange sense, or whether u_int was defined before
use.

Most likely, it is the old BSD bug of not supporting POSIX correctly.
Somebody should really work with the system developers to get this
resolved; it's been several years now that the bug is present.

Regards,
Martin


From timr at probo.com  Tue Oct 11 02:19:14 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 06:19:14 GMT
Subject: how to capture key pressing
References: <stz2f.22845$133.7103@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<hxz2f.353$tV6.127@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<neA2f.22929$133.22091@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <e1mmk1h7nufp6dsee7oq1k25ommhmdou0c@4ax.com>

"billie" <mlist at fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>
>> Look at curses.
>
>I was searching for something portable on multiple platforms.

Keyboard access is not portable.  It is quite system-specific, even in C.

>Curses doesn't work on Windows.

Sure it does.  You can find curses implementations for Windows.  However,
it depends on what you are planning to do.  If all you want to do is wait
for one character and print it, it's not too hard to have separate schemes
for separate systems:

  C:\Data\PyTools>python
  Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  >>> import msvcrt
  >>> msvcrt.getch()
  '\x1b'
  >>>

(I pressed "escape" after the second "enter".)
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 11 18:24:51 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:24:51 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.22.24.49.911502@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:27:30 +0000, axel wrote:

> I don't know how much spam other people receive but on one account I
> hardly receive any as I reserve it for friends and business. On another
> I had about 40 spam messages which took all of ten seconds to delete.
> Hardly a serious matter.

Can I remind you that spam is approximately 70% of all email traffic these
days? Most of that is blocked by the ISPs, but even so you are obviously
one of the lucky few.

My home address, which I cunningly will not give you, used to get about
fifty spams a day until I changed ISPs and email addresses. That would
quadruple for a week or so whenever one of my Windows-using friends would
get infected by a virus. My current home address only gets about one a
month, which is what I consider acceptable.

My work email address, on the other hand, is another story. We run a two
layer defence: blocking blacklisted addresses at our mail server, and spam
assassin at the individual user level. Even with that, I get about 100
spams a day delivered into my inbox, although many of those are addressed
to generic email addresses which are automatically forwarded to me.

Four years ago, one of our sys admins accidentally turned off the
blacklisting at the mail server. In the ten minutes it took to get it
turned back on, the CEO of our company received eight hundred spams.

-- 
Steven.



From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Fri Oct  7 10:14:30 2005
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:14:30 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di5vs8$dk1$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Steve Holden wrote:

>> On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -0000, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> 
>> wrote:

>>> For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the
>>> subject consists of more than one person.  Sports teams,
>>> government departments, states, corporations etc. are grammatically 
>>> plural.  In American, the verb agrees with the
>>> word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by
>>> that word.
> 
> There aren't any universal rules, except possibly "British people speak 
> English while Americans don't". 

I believe you overgeneralize. :)

A Welshman would likely be offended if you implied he spoke English, and 
the Scots are notorious for only speaking English when they have too. (I 
remember a news story some years back about a Scottish "lad" who was 
fined/imprisoned for replying to an official court representative with 
"Aye" rather than "Yes".) For that matter there are plenty of people in 
Cornwall and even in London (Cockney) who speak something that is only 
called "English" for lack of a better term.



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 12:22:23 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 10:22:23 -0600
Subject: pywordnet install problems
In-Reply-To: <1128163605.623632.96660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128057470.285356.211160@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<qsudnbksifzcxaDeRVn-jg@comcast.com>
	<1128163605.623632.96660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <itCdnaH41d9fx9zeRVn-iw@comcast.com>

vdrab wrote:
> I had WordNet 2.0 installed but just now I tried it with 1.7.1 as well
> and the result was the same. It's a shame, glossing over the pywordnet
> page really made me want to give it a try.
> Are there any workarounds you can recommend ?

What's your wordnet setup like?  I have mine installed in:
     C:\Program Files\WordNet\2.0
and I have an environment variable WNHOME set:
     WNHOME=C:\Program Files\WordNet\2.0
That seems to work for me.

> I had a quick look at the wordnet.py file, and it looks readable enough
> to try and fiddle around with it, but if possible I'd like to avoid
> having to mess with the source file.
> Is there any other person / list I can ask for help on this?

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find anyone else...

STeVe


From volker_grabsch at v.notjusthosting.com  Mon Oct  3 04:48:27 2005
From: volker_grabsch at v.notjusthosting.com (Volker Grabsch)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:48:27 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1272.1128089690.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhqr8r$tcb$00$3@news.t-online.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> /... snip comment that the natural order is C, X, Y and that programmers that
> care about readable code will probably want to be extremely careful with this
> new feature .../

That's also my opinion, but OTOH, Guido's syntax is more close to the syntax
of list comprehensions.


Greets,

	Volker

-- 
Volker Grabsch
---<<(())>>---
\frac{\left|\vartheta_0\times\{\ell,\kappa\in\Re\}\right|}{\sqrt
[G]{-\Gamma(\alpha)\cdot\mathcal{B}^{\left[\oint\!c_\hbar\right]}}}


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 10 14:51:44 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:51:44 +0200
Subject: convert char to byte representation
References: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434ab2f6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <died75$kmd$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Philipp H. Mohr wrote:
>> I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a string with
>> its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a char into its byte
>> representation.
> ord('a') == 97; chr(97) == 'a'; "ord" gives you the value of the byte.
> 
>> e.g. everything between $ and * needs to be xor:
>> $GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,40,25,51,287,00,05,25,103,44*
>> to get the checksum.
> 
> Probably you want a byte-array here, rather than going char-by-char.
> Try:
>      import array
>      base = ('$GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,'
>              '40,25,51,287,00,05,25,103,44*')
>      bytes = array.array('b', base[1 : -1])
>      for i in reversed(range(len(bytes))):
> bytes[i] ^= bytes[i-1]
>      result = bytes.tostring()

Seems like the OP doesn't need what he asked for. The simpler

def checksum(s):
    assert s[0] == "$"
    assert s[-1] == "*"
    result = 0
    for c in s[1:-1]:
        result ^= ord(c)
    return result

should do.

Peter



From nephish at xit.net  Fri Oct 21 16:48:42 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 13:48:42 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1129927722.835095.191620@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

ok, i have a display, and its a work in progress.

lemme get this straight. you used

gp('set term png')

is this an example of sending normal gnuplot commands?
if so, are all of the gnuplot commands available ?
thanks so much this is helping me out a lot here



From grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 19:55:48 2005
From: grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 16:55:48 -0800
Subject: looking for a good python module for MS SQL server
References: <dk61nj$mm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Message-ID: <1130806548.423359.182910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I successfully used mxODBC
(<http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html>)

Grig



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 06:23:23 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:23:23 +0200
Subject: p2exe using wine/cxoffice
References: <mailman.2583.1130319921.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlum4r.cle.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Tim Golden enlightened us with:
> Well, I'm with you. I'm sure a lot of people will chime in to point
> out just how flexible and useful and productive Linux is as a
> workstation, but every time I try to use it -- and I make an honest
> effort -- I end up back in Windows

I'm curious, what do you mean with "it" in the part "every time I try
to use it"?

There are different distributions of Linux, and putting them all on
one big pile is like saying "I've tried Windows, and I really don't
like it's user interface" and referring to the interface of Windows
3.1.

Many people use Fedora (from RedHat) and don't like it. I agree with
them - I don't like it either. For those people: give Ubuntu Linux a
go. It's my favourite - and my girlfriend's too btw.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 09:31:26 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:31:26 +0300
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1468.1128460022.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <200510041122.25067.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>	<20051004190827.3914.1498135555.divmod.quotient.23977@ohm>
	<mailman.1468.1128460022.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4343D5AE.2000601@gmail.com>

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:
> I've rewritten your middle example to be clearer.
> $ python2.4
> Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 16 2005, 15:15:14) 
> [GCC 4.0.0 20050512 (Red Hat 4.0.0-5)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>type("Y", (type,), {"mro": lambda x: [float]})("X", (), {})

on my machines:
 >>> type("Y", (type,), {"mro": lambda x: [float]})("X", (), {})
<class '__main__.X'>


> 
> 
> and here's another one for you to enjoy:
> 
>>>>import marshal
>>>>f = lambda: None
>>>>code = marshal.loads(marshal.dumps(f.func_code).replace('d\0\0S','d\xff\xffS'))
>>>>f.func_code = code
>>>>f()

just no any output

 >>> dir(code)
['__class__', '__cmp__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', 'co_argcount', 'co_cellvars', 'co_code', 'co_consts', 'co_filename', 'co_firstlineno', 'co_flags', 'co_freevars', 'co_lnotab', 'co_name', 'co_names', 'co_nlocals', 'co_stacksize', 'co_varnames']


Python 2.2.3 (#1, Oct 22 2004, 03:10:44)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 22:04:49 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 02:04:49 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2A9E6FFF60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.17.23.16.45.433200@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2D66F0FE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:42:09 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>>> When did Netscape executives perjure themselves in court?
>>> 
>>> When did Netscape commit fraud? Astro-turfing? Patent infringement?
>>> Theft of code?
>> 
>> They got killed too soon.
> 
> Neither the Netscape executives nor Netscape the company have been
> killed.

They were in one race, and they lost it.
  
>>> that was then, this is now, and unlike IBM, Microsoft hasn't yet
>>> learnt about karma.
>> 
>> Which is a good thing, since MS is not a human being. It's a company,
>> a thing to make money, so it can make more money.
> 
> Microsoft is a collection of human beings. They don't get to excuse
> anti-social behaviour on the basis that they're only trying to make
> money. 

I see little difference with other big companies. You're right that there 
is no excuse for such behaviour, but if MS isn't doing it, another company 
will take their place.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct  5 05:27:04 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 09:27:04 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk751c.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96E6695EF22B6duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> It also is one possibility to implement writable closures.
> 
> One could for instace have a 'declare' have the effect that
> if on a more inner scope such a declared variable is (re)bound it
> will rebind the declared variable instead of binding a local name.

That is one possibility, but I think that it would be better to use a 
keyword at the point of the assigment to indicate assignment to an outer 
scope. This fits with the way 'global' works: you declare at (or near) the 
assignment that it is going to a global variable, not in some far away part 
of the code, so the global nature of the assignment is clearly visible. The 
'global' keyword itself would be much improved if it appeared on the same 
line as the assignment rather than as a separate declaration.

e.g. something like:

var1 = 0

def f():
  var2 = 0

  def g():
     outer var2 = 1 # Assign to outer variable
     global var1 = 1 # Assign to global


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Oct  4 22:14:25 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:14:25 -0700
Subject: check html file size
In-Reply-To: <wAF0f.4432$2F2.545358@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<wAF0f.4432$2F2.545358@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <7fWdnbgeuY2cqt7eRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>

Matt Garrish wrote:

> Even if you weren't an incredibly offensive and petulant poster, what makes 
> you think anyone would write a script from you?

Because in addition to being offensive and petulant, he's also an idiot.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.
   -- Albert Camus


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 23 18:32:15 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:32:15 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.46.50.621450@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djgll0$jq7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.22.32.13.883632@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:43:44 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>     You are dishonest, lying sack of shit.


And David posts his true colours to the mast at last. When rational
argument and logical thoughts fails, fall back on personal insults.


-- 
Steven.



From arve.knudsen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 18:07:24 2005
From: arve.knudsen at gmail.com (arve.knudsen at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 15:07:24 -0700
Subject: How to statically link Python with ncurses and readline?
In-Reply-To: <435ea4ca$0$16638$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <1130263338.291061.50210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435e78d1$0$2680$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<1130265985.862970.185070@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435ea4ca$0$16638$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <1130278044.241389.177210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

What do you mean? A static-only build does somehow exclude that I had
static libraries before?



From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 14:40:38 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:40:38 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<11lsopl4qpg9gc2@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.17.16.04.89184@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83e5092b6a44c98a5ca@news.verizon.net>
	<ubr1cjmau.fsf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <djoij7$esf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Tor Iver Wilhelmsen" <jadedgamer at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ubr1cjmau.fsf at hotmail.com...

> entropy <entropy at domain.invalid> writes:

>> IBM seems to have had a history of squeezing out competition in the
>> same way Microsoft has, if I recall correctly.

> ... and were told not to by a court. Which is the whole reason for the
> existence of IBM clones, whether PCs or mainframes.

    And, perhaps, is the whole reason for the existence of Microsoft. (In 
its present form, as the OS vendor for the majority of desktops.)

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 07:07:20 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:07:20 +0100
Subject: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0c50$bab$1@sea.gmane.org>

beza1e1 wrote:
> Coming back from a bug hunt, i am not sure what to think of this python
> behaviour. Here is a demo program:
> 
> class A:
>    def __init__(self, lst=[]):
>       self.lst = lst
> 
> a = A()
> b = A()
> b.lst.append("hallo")
> print a.lst # output: ["hallo"]
> 
> The point seems to be, that lst=[] creates a class attribute (correct
> name?), which is shared by all instances of A. So a.lst ist the same
> object as b.lst, despite the fact, that object a is different to object
> b.
> 
Interestingly I couldn't find this in the FAQ, though it *is* a 
frequently-asked question [note: my not finding it doesn't guarantee 
it's not there]. The nearest I could get was in

 
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming.html#my-program-is-too-slow-how-do-i-speed-it-up

which says:

"""Default arguments can be used to determine values once, at compile 
time instead of at run time."""

The point is that the value of the keyword argument is determined when 
the def statement is executed (which is to say when the function body is 
being bound to its name).

If the default argument is (a reference to) a mutable object (such as a 
list instance) then if one call to the function modifies that mutable 
object, subsequent calls see the mutated instance as the default value.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Tue Oct 18 02:28:41 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:58:41 +0530
Subject: Don't want to serialize a variable of object
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D77@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


Hi,
I got a class which I need to serialize, except for couple of variable.
i.e.

import cPickle as p
class Color:
    def __init__(self):
        print "hello world"
        self.x=10
        self.somechar="this are the characters"
color=Color()
f=file('poem.txt', 'w')
p.dump(color, f)
f.close()

How do I serialize the object color without serializing the x and
somechar variables?
Is there any modifier which prevents the variable from being serialized.




Another question:
	Is there a concept of private variables?



regards
prasad chandrasekaran




















--- Cancer cures smoking
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#Behalf Of python-list-request at python.org
#Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:00 AM
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#Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 25, Issue 322
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This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 16:32:39 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:32:39 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack
References: <dhpem5$nne$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <dhpg58$rvk$1@sea.gmane.org>

"g.franzkowiak" wrote:

> I've read a pipe and store it in a object.
> My next step was the separation from 4 bytes with
> obj = string.join(list(dataObject)[:4] ==> '\x16 \x00 \x00 \x00'
> and the converting  by
> value = struct.unpack('I', obj) generated the error
> "unpack str size does not match format"
>
> Unfortunately is len(obj) 7, but integer lengt 4.
> Why 7 ?

because string.join inserts a space between the bytes, by default (as
your example shows)

if you really need that join(list) thing (it's not clear how you read it, but
I find it a bit hard to believe that you've managed to read it into some-
thing that's supported by list but not unpack), you can do

    obj = string.join(list(dataObject)[:4], "")

or

    obj = "".join(list(dataObject[:4]))

or some variation thereof.

</F>





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 30 17:20:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:20:02 +1100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.29.22.49.02.45985@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h57cu1.1jywbjibu87obN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.09.02.27.88280@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h58jkz.1byi9q5qwo1owN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.30.22.20.02.188736@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:35:12 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>    ...
>> > Don't ever catch and ``handle'' exceptions in such ways.  In particular,
>> > each time you're thinking of writing a bare 'except:' clause, think
>> > again, and you'll most likely find a much better approach.
>> 
>> What would you -- or anyone else -- recommend as a better approach?
> 
> That depends on your application, and what you're trying to accomplish
> at this point.
> 
> 
>> Is there a canonical list somewhere that states every possible exception
>> from a file open or close?
> 
> No.  But if you get a totally unexpected exception, 

I'm more concerned about getting an expected exception -- or more
accurately, *missing* an expected exception. Matching on Exception is too
high. EOFError will probably need to be handled separately, since it often
isn't an error at all, just a change of state. IOError is the bad one.
What else can go wrong?


> something that shows
> the world has gone crazy and most likely any further action you perform
> would run the risk of damaging the user's persistent data since the
> macchine appears to be careening wildly out of control... WHY would you
> want to perform any further action?

In circumstances where, as you put it, the hard disk has crashed, the CPU
is on strike, or the memory has melted down, not only can you not recover
gracefully, but you probably can't even fail gracefully -- at least not
without a special purpose fail-safe operating system.

I'm not concerned with mylist.append(None) unexpectedly -- and
impossibly? -- raising an ImportError. I can't predict every way things
can explode, and even if they do, I can't safely recover from them. But I
can fail gracefully from *expected* errors: rather than the application
just crashing, I can at least try to put up a somewhat informative dialog
box, or at least print something to the console. If opening a preferences
file fails, I can fall back on default settings. If writing the
preferences file fails, I can tell the user that their settings won't be
saved, and continue. Just because the disk is full or their disk quota is
exceeded, doesn't necessarily mean the app can't continue with the job on
hand.


-- 
Steven.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct 27 12:20:41 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:20:41 -0500
Subject: sys.exit call from pythonw.exe gives error
In-Reply-To: <djqpc8$c75$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
References: <djqpc8$c75$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <20051027162041.GA2696@unpythonic.net>

I wrote the following small program:
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------
import sys, Tkinter
t = Tkinter.Tk()
b = Tkinter.Button(command=lambda: sys.exit(0), text="Click to exit")
b.pack()
t.mainloop()
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------
and ran it with pythonw.exe from python 2.3.4 on a machine running Windows NT
4.0.  (I actually used Start > Run and entered "d:\python23\pythonw.exe x:\app.pyw"
rather than clicking on the app.pyw icon, but this shouldn't make a difference)

When the button is clicked, the application exits without giving any error like
the one you described.

Jeff
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From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct  3 07:49:35 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 11:49:35 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> A language where variable have to be declared before use, would allow
> to give all misspelled (undeclared) variables in on go, instead of
> just crashing each time one is encounterd.

Wrong. It would catch at compile-time those misspellings which do not 
happen to coincide with another declared variable. It would give the 
programmer a false sense of security since they 'know' all their 
misspellings are caught by the compiler. It would not be a substitute for 
run-time testing.

Moreover, it adds a burden on the programmer who has to write all those 
declarations, and worse it adds a burden on everyone reading the code who 
has more lines to read before understanding the code. Also there is 
increased overhead when maintaining the code as all those declarations have 
to be kept in line as the code changes over time.

It's a trade-off: there is a potential advantage, but lots of 
disadvantages. I believe that the disadvantages outweight the possible 
benefit. Fortunately there are plenty of languages to choose from out 
there, so those who disagree with me are free to use a language which does 
insist on declarations.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 25 19:42:39 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:42:39 -0400
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <1130272231.210978.316140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
	<1130272231.210978.316140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <kfCdndBA0_BuX8PenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@powergate.ca>

Ernesto wrote:
> So i generated the .exe file "myFile.exe"
> 
> This is a Windows - text based application.  Right now, when I run:
> 
> import subprocess
> subprocess.call("myFile")
> 
> the application starts in its own console window.  Is there a way for
> it to run inside the python interface?

Google found the following (after I read the docs for subprocess and 
learned about the "startupinfo" flag, and searched for "subprocess 
startupinfo").  Does this help?

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/409002

-Peter


From noway at sorry.com  Sun Oct 16 07:01:54 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:01:54 GMT
Subject: Some set operators
References: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4hwtl.np9wjhchw3duN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<cKg4f.14993$Pe2.304269@twister2.libero.it>
	<1h4ipj6.z65uja1mk94z9N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Cqq4f.10702$65.296032@twister1.libero.it>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>>> I still vaguely hope that in 3.0, where backwards incompatibilities
>>> can be introduced, Python may shed some rarely used operators such
>>> as
>>> these (for all types, of course).
>>
>> I hope there is no serious plan to drop them. There is nothing wrong
>> in having such operators, and I wouldn't flag bit operations as
>> "rarely used". They are very common when calling C-based API and
>> other stuff. I know I use them very often. They have a clear and
>> well-understood meaning, as they appear identical in other
>> languages, including the widely-spread C and C++.
>
> Well, C and C++ don't have unbounded-length integers, nor built-in
> sets, so the equivalence is slightly iffy; and the precedence table of
> operators in Python is not identical to that in C/C++.

The equivalence was trying to make a point about the fact that bitwise
operators are not an uncommon and obscure operator like GCC's "<?=" (so-called
"update minimum") operator. "&" reads as "and" to English readers, "|" reads as
"or" in regular expression. It's not something weird we have come up with just
by sticking a couple of symbols together.

> As for
> frequency
> of use, that's easily measured: take a few big chunks of open-source
> Python code, starting with the standard library (which does a lot of
> "calling C-based API and other stuff") and widespread applications
> such as mailman and spambayes, and see what gives.

I grepped in a Python application of mine (around 20k lines), and I found about
350 occurrences of ^, | and &, for either integers or builtin sets.

> But the crux of our disagreement lies with your assertion that there's
> nothing wrong in having mind-boggling varieties and numbers of
> operators, presumably based on the fact that C/C++ has almost as many.

When exactly did I assert this? I am just saying that an infix operator form
for bitwise or, and, xor is very useful. And once we have them for integers,
using them for sets is elegant and clear. Notice also that a keyword-based
alternative like "bitand", "bitor", "bitxor" would serve well as a replacement
for the operators for integers, but it would make them almost useless for sets.

> I contend that having huge number of operators (and other built-ins)
> goes against the grain of Python's simplicity,

We agree on this.

> makes Python
> substantially harder to teach, and presents no substantial advantages
> when compared to the alternative of placing that functionality in a
> built-in module (possibly together with other useful bit-oriented
> functionality, such as counts of ones/zeros, location of first/last
> one/zero bit, formatting into binary, octal and hexadecimal, etc).

Such a module would be very useful, but I believe it's orthogonal to having an
infix notation for common operations. We have a string module (and string
methods), but we still have a couple of operators for strings like "+".
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 19 16:12:52 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:12:52 -0000
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11ld9qtgvead8d0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <11lda64jq5s1u12@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-19, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

>> So, if I use "l2" thus:
>>
>> if (l2): # only then does it make it a boolean?
>
> That doesn't affect the type of the object with the name "l2"
> at all.  It checks to see if l2 has a false value or not.
> Examples of basic objects with false values are an iteger 0, a
> floating point 0.0, an empty string "", an empty list [], an
> empty tuple (), or an empty dictionary {}.

Oh, and a bool False, obviously.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  It's so OBVIOUS!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 20 03:14:51 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 07:14:51 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
Message-ID: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

I was wondering how people would feel if the cmp function and
the __cmp__ method would be a bit more generalised.

The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.

So I thought that either cmp could return None in this
case or throw a specific exception. People writing a
__cmp__ method could do the same.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  4 10:18:41 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:18:41 +0200
Subject: email module, redirecting to stdout
References: <mailman.1441.1128434737.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhu2vh$ivo$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

> I have this code:
> 
>         s = smtplib.SMTP()
>         s.set_debuglevel(1)
>         s.connect(host=smtp_host)
>         s.set_debuglevel(0)
>         log("Connected, sending e-mail")
>         sys.stdout.flush()
>         s.sendmail(
>             consts.EMAIL_FROMADDRESS,
>             [to],
>             msg.as_string()
>         )
>         log("E-mail sent OK")
>         s.quit()
> 
> The problem is that whenever I set the debuglevel to 1, messages will go
> to stderr. I would like them to go to stdout. Using
> 
> sys.stderr = sys.stdout
> 
> has no effect. Redirecting stderr to stdout from the shell is not an
> option for me, because I need to use stderr for other messages.

smtplib obtains a copy of stderr by

from sys import stderr

Therefore you have to do

smtplib.stderr = sys.stdout

to get the desired effect.

Peter






From jmw136 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:09:35 2005
From: jmw136 at gmail.com (John W)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:09:35 -0600
Subject: Asyncore Loop Question
In-Reply-To: <dk5ra6$v6s$2@sea.gmane.org>
References: <f7d768310510310906p682b068du189090711fdc623b@mail.gmail.com>
	<dk5ra6$v6s$2@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <f7d768310510311209o1021eb1dq8c28a9a70af4e260@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,

Ar you saying that I should close the connection until I have data to write?
Or should I be using the readable and writable methods to turn it off?

Thanks for your help, unfortunatly, I have struggled with the documentation
and getting a clear understanding of everything. This is my first socket
program as well.

Thanks,

John

On 10/31/05, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
> John W wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have a gui application where I am trying to use the asyncore module to
> > gather data from other computers. I am able to connect, but I am getting
> > constant handle_write_event method calls into my application. It is
> > obviously slowing down the gui processing significantly.
> >
> > My understanding is that the handle_write_event and handle_read_event
> are
> > both edge notifications and I should just get the method call
> essentially
> > just once.
> >
> > I think the problem is how I have my loop() call configured. All I am
> trying
> > to do with the code below is to open the socket (that works) and then
> > receive a single handle_write_event method call. Instead, I am getting
> > constantly barraged with them.
> >
> > I have tried several different types of the loop() call (using poll,
> > timeout...) but with no luck. If anyone can explain what I should be
> doing
> > to get a single handle_write_event call until I actually write something
> to
> > the socket (which my code is not presently doing yet), I would
> appreciate
> >
> > Below is some code showing what I am doing:
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > class Connection(asyncore.dispatcher):
> > def __init__ (self, server_name, port_num ):
> > self.message_queue = []
> >
> > asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
> > self.create_socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM )
> > self.connect(( server_name, port_num ))
> >
> >
> > def handle_read_event( self ):
> > print "handle_read_event received"
> >
> >
> > def handle_write_event( self ):
> > print "Asking for a write"
> >
> > if len( self.message_queue ) > 0:
> > # Pop the first message off the queue
> > self.send_next_message()
> >
> >
> > class TestApp:
> > def __init__( self, server_name, port_number ):
> >
> > self.nomad = Connection( server_name, port_number )
> > asyncore.loop()
> >
> >
> > Output ends up being a constant stream of:
> > Asking for a write
> > Asking for a write
> > Asking for a write
> > Asking for a write
> > Asking for a write
> > ....
> > ...
> > ...
> >
> >
> Normally if a socket channel asks for a write and you have no data you
> should respond by removing it from the list of write-enabled channels
> for the asyncore loop until you *do* have some data for it. Otherwise
> every time the loop scans the channels expecting notification it will
> tell you again that you can write to that channel.
>
> regards
> Steve
> --
> Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com <http://www.holdenweb.com>
> PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ <http://www.python.org/pycon/>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 07:15:10 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:15:10 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:31:41 GMT, Roedy Green
> <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote, quoted or
> indirectly quoted someone who said :

>> I used to be a retailer of custom computers.  MS used a dirty trick
>> to compete with IBM's OS/2.  They said to me as a retailer. You must
>> buy a copy of our OS for EVERY machine you sell.  The alternative is
>> to pay full retail for the OSes.

> Through intimidation, MS managed to control the entire retail computer
> market  in Vancouver BC to the extent you could not buy even the most
> stripped down computer  without having to buy a copy of Windows with
> it, whether you wanted it or not.
>
> You might not want it because you bought OS/2.
>
> You might not want it because you already owned Windows from your
> older machine you were upgrading.
>
> You might not want it because somebody stole your machine and they did
> not steal all your software masters.

    Tell me, can you buy a new car without seats? Guess what, you have to 
buy those seats whether you want them or not.

    Try to start a business selling competing seats for a new car. Your 
seats may be cheaper, better, but how can you possibly compete when people 
have to pay for factory car seats whether they want them or not?

    The real reason PCs were not available without Windows was because not 
enough people wanted them that way to justify setting up a business to 
provide them that way, and Microsoft was not going to let a business 
parasitically use Windows to build a business that touted the advantages of 
competing products. (Just as Burger King corporate will not you sell Big 
Macs in the same store in which you sell Whoppers.)

    DS




From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sun Oct  2 23:43:29 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 03:43:29 GMT
Subject: gtk.TextView.move_mark_onscreen() broken?
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-85FB93.23433702102005@news.verizon.net>

Is gtk.TextView.move_mark_onscreen() broken?  Perhaps only in Python's 
gtk module, in Python 2.3, gtk 2.4.14?  I'm asking here because I'm 
using gtk from Python and don't want to write a C program to verify my 
issue.  I've also tried gtk.TextView.scroll_to_mark() and 
gtk.TextView.place_cursor_onscreen(), and none of them want to do 
anything.  The rest of my program works, so I'm not a complete gtk bazo.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 12:56:10 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 18:56:10 +0200
Subject: CSV like file format featured recently in Daily Python URL?
References: <1128688213.7906.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <di69bc$oa9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Willmer wrote:

> I'm trying to track down the name of a file format and python module,
> that was featured in the Daily Python URL some time in the last month or
> two.

http://www.netpromi.com/kirbybase.html ?

</F>





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 10:04:34 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:04:34 +0200
Subject: Tricky import question.
References: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djle1o$f7$1@sea.gmane.org>

David Poundall wrote:

> importedfiles = {}
> for f in FileList
>  f2 = f.split('.')[0]       # strip the .py, .pyc
>  __import__(f2)
>  s2 = f2+'.main()'          # main is the top file in each import
>  c = compile(s2, '', 'eval')
>  importedfiles[f2] =  eval(c)
>
> 'importedfiles' should hold an object reference to the main() function
> within each imported file.
>
> The problem is, the import function works but I can't get the object
> reference into the imortedfiles dictionary object.  the code keeps
> telling me
>
> NameError: name 'C1_Dosing' is not defined.
>
> in this instance C1_Dosing is the first file name in the filelist.  The
> import worked, why not the compile ??

because your __import__ statement didn't assign the returned module
to anything, so there's no C1_Dosing in the current namespace.

assuming that the main function in each module returns something that
you want to store in the importedfiles dictionary, here's a better way to
do it:

    m = __import__(f2)
    importedfiles[f2] =  getattr(m, "main")()

tweak as necessary.

</F> 





From peiyin.li at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 15:27:10 2005
From: peiyin.li at gmail.com (peiyin.li at gmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 12:27:10 -0700
Subject: multiple logger
Message-ID: <1128713230.539865.202980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I want to have two loggers that logs to two different files. Here is
what I have:

import logging
import logging.handlers

project1Handler = logging.handlers.RotatingFileHandler( 'project1.log',
maxBytes=1024)
project1Handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
formatter1 = logging.Formatter('%(name)-12s: %(levelname)-8s
%(message)s')
project1Handler.setFormatter(formatter1)
logging.getLogger('project1').addHandler(project1Handler)
logger1 = logging.getLogger('project1')

logger1.debug('Quick zephyrs blow, vexing daft Jim.')
logger1.info('How quickly daft jumping zebras vex.')
logger1.warning('Jail zesty vixen who grabbed pay from quack.')
logger1.error('The five boxing wizards jump quickly.')


project2Handler = logging.handlers.RotatingFileHandler( 'project2.log',
maxBytes=1024)
project2Handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
formatter2 = logging.Formatter('%(name)-12s: %(levelname)-8s
%(message)s')
project2Handler.setFormatter(formatter2)
logging.getLogger('project2').addHandler(project2Handler)
logger2 = logging.getLogger('project2')

logger2.debug('Quick zephyrs blow, vexing daft Jim.')
logger2.info('How quickly daft jumping zebras vex.')
logger2.warning('Jail zesty vixen who grabbed pay from quack.')
logger2.error('The five boxing wizards jump quickly.')


However, I got this for project1.log:

project1    : WARNING  Jail zesty vixen who grabbed pay from quack.
project1    : ERROR    The five boxing wizards jump quickly.

and this for project2.log:

project2    : WARNING  Jail zesty vixen who grabbed pay from quack.
project2    : ERROR    The five boxing wizards jump quickly.

Where are the DEBUG and INFO messages go?

I then add this at the begining of my code:

logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)

Now it seems that both project1.log and project2.log has the correct
output. But I also see all the log message going to the console, which
I really don't want.

What did I miss here? Do I have to set a handler for the root logger
before I can set something for the child loggers? If yes, how do I make
the root logger logs to nowhere?

Thanks in advance!

Albert



From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 18 02:57:47 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 06:57:47 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<2u59l1555jubv8qv09q57qh8m4skei9dqi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F313F71494Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 18 Oct 2005 06:20:56 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>
>>That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML recommendation by 
>>w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, and mixing them up by 
>>calling both standards is a bad thing.
> 
> Because ... what are the consequences?

If you mean if you are put in jail for 20 years, and tortured, none.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From PrikrylP at skil.cz  Mon Oct 17 06:14:47 2005
From: PrikrylP at skil.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:14:47 +0200
Subject: Any 3state Check Tree Ctrl for wxPython available?
Message-ID: <E8AE1CAFC84D634A9CCC887B8AAB15EC03D68A@skil01.skil.mistni>

Hi,

I am experimenting with wxPython on Windows box. 
What I need to implement is a check tree control
with 3 states for each checkbox: unchecked, checked,
gray checked. The status of the checkbox should reflect
the status of the children. When ALL children are checked,
then the status should be checked. When NO children
are checked, the status should be unchecked. When 
SOME children are selected, the status should be
checked with gray background.

I have found something else that could be valuable
after I start understand that:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/drpython/CheckTreeCtrl.tar 

Anyway, is there something similar with 3 states
available around?

Thanks for your time and experience,

pepr

-- 
Petr Prikryl (prikrylp at skil dot cz) 


From http  Fri Oct 14 23:37:24 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 20:37:24 -0700
Subject: deleting a parameter's name as it is passed to a function
References: <1129336848.353805.176360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfyr3mwr6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1129337961.450468.220780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xwtkfo3gr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Amir  Michail" <amichail at gmail.com> writes:
> But dosomestuff can get rid of its reference before it returns (perhaps
> it has a lot more to do before it returns and so you would want to
> garbage collect the parameter object as soon as possible).

That would be so rare and weird that your best bet is to just pass a
boxed object in the odd circumstances where it will make any
difference.  Instead of dosomestuff(x), say dosomestuff([x]).  Then
dosomestuff can mutate the list:

   def dosomestuff(xl):
       x = xl.pop()
       ... do stuff with x ...
       x = None    # free the reference
       ... more stuff...


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 10 11:58:27 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:58:27 +0100
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <die0mh$4ts$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<die0mh$4ts$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <die334$g2f$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Tillotson wrote:
> simplest approach is to 1 way hash the password ... perhaps using md5
> 
No, it isn't - see below.

> normally with passwords the server only has to check if it is the same 
> word, assuming the same hash algorithms the same hash value can be 
> created at client.
> 
Unfortunately this means that the client sends the same string every 
time the user authenticates.

> Its not hugely secure ... anyone sniffing can grab your hash value and 
> then try to crack it at their leisure. It would be better to communicate 
> over ssl.
> 
It's not even that secure: all they have to do is replay the data 
sniffed from the server and they too can authenticate themselves. They 
don't have to know what the plain-text password is.

> Anyone know of a simple ssl api in python :-)
> 
A safer way would be to use some sort of challenge-response mechanism, 
where the server presents a challenge C to the client, which then 
computes some function of both C and the plain-text password provided by 
the user. The server then authenticates by performing the same 
computation on C and the known password.

As long as the server uses a different challenge each time then this is 
at least secure from replay attacks. But this scheme does have the 
weakness that the server must know the password of each user.

For something even more secure, look at OPIE and similar schemes. But 
let's not forget that all these schemes only secure the authentication 
exchange: they do nothing to protect application data.

regards
  Steve

> dcrespo wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I have a program that serves client programs. The server has a login
>>password, which has to be used by each client for logging in. So, when
>>the client connects, it sends a string with a password, which is then
>>validated on the server side. The problem is obvious: anyone can get
>>the password just sniffing the network.
>>
>>How can I solve this?
>>
>>Daniel
>>


-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 01:32:38 2005
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:32:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem processing Chinese
Message-ID: <20051014053238.4950.qmail@web35802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I believe that topic related to Chinese processing was
discussed before.  I could not dig out the info I want
from the mail list archive.

My Python script reads some Chinese text and then
split a line delimited by white spaces.  I got lists
like

['\xbc\xc7\xd5\xdf', '\xd0\xbb\xbd\xf0\xbb\xa2',
'\xa1\xa2']

I had 

#-*- coding: gbk -*-

on top of the script.

My Windows 2000 system's default language is Chinese
(GB2312) and  displays Chinese perfectly.

I don't know how to configure python or what else I
need to properly process such two-byte-character text.

Thanks.





	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 11 21:59:49 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:59:49 -0500
Subject: Profiling Python using gprof
In-Reply-To: <20051011221135.3188.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051011221135.3188.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051012015949.GH21569@unpythonic.net>

It should be the same as for any program....

$ program-compiled-with-pg
$ gprof /path/to/program-compiled-with-pg

you'll need to make sure that python is not only *compiled* with -pg
but that the *link line* contains -pg as well.  That's a common "gotcha" when
it comes to profiling.

Jeff
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From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct  6 13:31:05 2005
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 10:31:05 -0700
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net><di0j8t$29ah$1@news.tsua.net>
	<ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
	<1128551304.960549.235420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<d5mibu8q.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <1128619865.329954.44600@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> I do *not* think 'no handler' is a misconfiguration. Is it possible to
> differentiate between a misconfiguration and 'no configuration'?

It's a fair point. The line was more blurred when the logging package
was newly released into the wild ;-) But "no configuration" could be
caused e.g. by an unreadable config file, which might also be
categorised as a "misconfiguration".

> That would be fine.  But there are also other ways - you could, for
> example, print the warning only when __debug__ is False.  And you could
> use the warnings module instead of blindly printing to stderr, this way
> it could also be filtered out.

Compatibility with 1.5.2 precludes use of the warnings module. If using
raiseExceptions meets your requirement, I'll use that. I'm not sure
it's a good idea for the behaviour to change between running with and
without -O.

> BTW: Since I have your attention now, is the graphical utility to
> configure the logging.conf file still available somewhere, and
> compatible with the current logging package (with 'current' I mean
> the one included with Python 2.3.5)?

You can always get my attention via email :-) The graphical utility
(logconf.py) is available from the download at

http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html#download

AFAIK it should work OK with 2.3.5, though I haven't tested it recently
as there wasn't much interest in it. In fact you're the first person to
ask! It generates a few extra entries in the config file which are used
by the utility only, which are seemingly regarded as "cruft" by most
people.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 16 12:45:43 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:45:43 GMT
Subject: Function to execute only once
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43527aa9.156193794@news.oz.net>

On 14 Oct 2005 12:11:58 -0700, "PyPK" <superprad at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi if I have a function called
>tmp=0
>def execute():
>    tmp = tmp+1
>    return tmp
>
>also I have
>def func1():
>    execute()
>    ....
>and
>def func2():
>    execute()
>    ....
>
>now I want execute() function to get executed only once. That is the
>first time it is accessed.
>so taht when funcc2 access the execute fn it should have same values as
>when it is called from func1.
>

You could have the execute function replace itself with a function
that returns the first result from there on, e.g., (assuming you want
the global tmp incremented once (which has bad code smell, but can be expedient ;-)):

 >>> tmp = 0
 >>> def execute():
 ...     global tmp, execute
 ...     tmp = cellvar = tmp + 1
 ...     def execute():
 ...         return cellvar
 ...     return tmp
 ...
 >>> def func1():
 ...     return execute() # so we can see it
 ...
 >>> def func2():
 ...     return execute() # so we can see it
 ...
 >>> func1()
 1
 >>> tmp
 1
 >>> func2()
 1
 >>> tmp
 1
 >>> execute()
 1
 >>> execute
 <function execute at 0x02EF702C>
 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(execute)
   5           0 LOAD_DEREF               0 (cellvar)
               3 RETURN_VALUE

But if you want to call the _same_ "execute" callable that remembers that
it's been called and does what you want, you need a callable that can
remember state one way or another. A callable could be a function with
a mutable closure variable or possibly a function attribute as shown in
other posts in the thread, or maybe a class bound method or class method,
or even an abused metaclass or decorator, but I don't really understand
what you're trying to do, so no approach is likely to hit the mark very well
unless you show more of your cards ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:11:18 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:11:18 +1000
Subject: Weighted "random" selection from list of lists
References: <mailman.1766.1128790108.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.11.15.296545@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:48:26 -0400, Jesse Noller wrote:

> Once main_list is populated, I want to build a sequence from items
> within the lists, "randomly" with a defined percentage of the sequence
> coming for the various lists. For example, if I want a 6 item
> sequence, I might want:
> 
> 60% from list 1 (main_list[0])
> 30% from list 2 (main_list[1])
> 10% from list 3 (main_list[2])

If you are happy enough to match the percentages statistically rather than
exactly, simply do something like this:

pr = random.random()
if pr < 0.6:
    list_num = 0
elif pr < 0.9:
    list_num = 1
else:
    list_num = 2
return random.choice(main_list[list_num])

or however you want to extract an item.

On average, this will mean 60% of the items will come from list1 etc, but
for small numbers of trials, you may have significant differences.



-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 03:30:50 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:30:50 +0200
Subject: Here I am again, same old arguments
References: <wg32f.411657$x96.212964@attbi_s72>
Message-ID: <diagvb$at3$1@sea.gmane.org>

"CJ" wrote:

>    Well, for some reason, the FOR loop is altering two of my lists. Using
> PRINT magic, I was able to narrow down the lines that were causing it.
> But the question remains: Why is it doing this? I'm sure there's a simple
> answer that I just overlooked in the manual or something.

here you create a list, and name it "grub":

> grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67]

here you add a new name for that list:

> grubrpt=grub

after this operation, "grubrpt" and "grub" are two names for the
same object, not two distinct objects.  in Python, variables are
names, not small "boxes" in memory than contain stuff.

you can add

    print id(grub), id(grubrpt)

to see the object identities.

required reading:

    http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm
    (short version, available in english, french, and czech)

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html
    (long version, with ascii art!)

some common patterns:

    to copy a list, use

        grubrpt = grub[:]

    or the copy module.  to build a new list from an old one, use

        new_list = []
        for item in old_list:
            ... do something ...
            new_list.append(item)

    for some cases, a list comprehension can be a nicer way to
    write that:

        new_list = [... item ... for item in old_list ...]

etc.

</F>





From gimp-developer-bounces at lists.xcf.berkeley.edu  Thu Oct 27 13:17:38 2005
From: gimp-developer-bounces at lists.xcf.berkeley.edu (gimp-developer-bounces at lists.xcf.berkeley.edu)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:17:38 -0700
Subject: Your message to Gimp-developer awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.112376.1130433458.28342.gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu>

Your mail to 'Gimp-developer' with the subject

    report

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/confirm/gimp-developer/c7abb25fec4af698360aa7a095d40914ad1cac68



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:20:55 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:20:55 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
	<tluik1ttskfsqb175v3gma36848liub5da@4ax.com>
	<86ek6ul1c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <ji2rk19rbq8b5g0pi25t69iplhi6eo3dog@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:25:46 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Right. Nobody sends email to addresses that come off business cards,
>or off a web site, or ....

Nowadays website email addresses are becoming rarer. Instead you fill
in a form to initiate your conversation.

In a business card exchange both parties might set up a permission for
the other,  so they are not exactly strangers.

There are some people who naturally get mail from the general public,
e.g. newspaper editors, salesmen, me. However, if you block a
sufficiently high percentage of spam, the spam industry will go away
and these people will be the natural beneficiaries.

You don't need 100% spam blocking to effectively solve the spam
problem.  You just have to make spam uneconomic.

There was an analogous problem with telephone spam.  It was even
easier for the telepest to get  addresses, just add one.  That was
solved by legal means. It could come back as long distance rates drop
and some country harbours them.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From raphael.marc at free.fr  Tue Oct  4 05:56:51 2005
From: raphael.marc at free.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_MARC?=)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:56:51 +0200
Subject: Processing an image with numarray.nd image
Message-ID: <434251e3$0$11154$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,

Can anyone tell me how to open an image
and transform it into a list so that
the functions of the multi dimensionnal module of
numarray (numarray.nd image) can process it ?

Do I have to use PIL ?

So I would code something like :
import Image
im = Image.open("Python.jpg")
data = list(im.getdata())
import numarray.nd image as ti
ti.median filter(data,...)

Is that the correct way to do ?


Thanks for any help.


Rapha?l


From deets at web.de  Wed Oct 12 11:20:51 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 08:20:51 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1129130299.270571.113250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r3u8kFhhsqmU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129108543.596435.200600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129130299.270571.113250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129130450.987294.259990@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> And requesting random features built into the interpreter without even
> specifying a usecase  - as remote as it may be - isn't very likely
> happen, don't you think? Which I wanted to express with my apparently
> misunderstood solve_my_problem()-example.

Reread your post - you did specify it. So forget about that. Maybe I
_have_ a bad hair day - even though I'm pretty bald.  Might be because
of too much JAVA these days... *sigh*

Sorry.

Diez



From steve at rueb.com  Sun Oct  2 13:47:31 2005
From: steve at rueb.com (Steve Bergman)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 12:47:31 -0500
Subject: Distributing programs
In-Reply-To: <dIU%e.168$_%3.38273@newshog.newsread.com>
References: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>	<QOudnRHYHr2zYqLeRVn-qQ@rcn.net>
	<dIU%e.168$_%3.38273@newshog.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <43401D33.5070805@rueb.com>

Leif K-Brooks wrote:

>But remember that Python bytecode can be easily decompiled with a
>publicly-available program.
>  
>
I hope it is not considered too antisocial to bring it up here, but 
there is always PyObfuscate:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/projects/pyobfuscate/

-Steve Bergman


From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 02:18:53 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 23:18:53 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
Message-ID: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

i'd like to use

   os.access(path,mode)

where path may contain linux style wildcards.
i've failed so far.
my workaround is the bash command.

   os.system('[ -e %s ]' % fn )

any suggestions?



From cppnewb at noway.com  Thu Oct  6 10:36:27 2005
From: cppnewb at noway.com (CppNewB)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:36:27 GMT
Subject: So far
Message-ID: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>

I am absolutely loving my experience with Python.  Even vs. Ruby, the syntax 
feels very clean with an emphasis on simplification.

My only complaint is that there doesn't appear to be a great commercial IDE 
for the language.  I've tried Komodo, etc and they are nice applications, 
but they don't feel like they give me the "power" like a Visual Studio or 
Delphi (I wish I could articulate better the differences).    Finding a 
descent GUI builder has been a challenge as well.  Most of them have support 
for Dialogs, but what about more complex UI's?  I may need a resizable frame 
within a resizable frame? I haven''t found a GUI builder with a great feel 
yet.

Other than that, my experience has been wonderful.  Even after my 
complaints, I plan on sticking with Python for a while. 




From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 03:24:45 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:24:45 +0100
Subject: Some more odd behaviour from the Regexp library
In-Reply-To: <86wtk8vofq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1129777843.892280.302490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86wtk8vofq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dj7gnp$6nq$2@sea.gmane.org>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> "David Veerasingam" <vdavidster at gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> Of course, being the founder of SPARE, I have to point out that
> a.split(': ') will get you the same two strings as the re I used
> above.
> 
Let me guess: the Society for the Prevention of Abuse of Regular 
Expressions?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve at uptime.org.uk  Wed Oct 26 09:03:24 2005
From: steve at uptime.org.uk (Stephen Hildrey)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:03:24 +0100
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435F7E9C.7040608@uptime.org.uk>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?

I'm sure there's a million-and-one tools that will do what you want, and 
suggest you search Google.

Personally, I've used vim to do this in the past. The following 
generates marked-up code:

     :runtime syntax/2html.vim

Regards,
Steve
-- 
Stephen Hildrey
E-mail: steve at uptime.org.uk   / Tel: +442071931337
Jabber: steve at jabber.earth.li / MSN: foo at hotmail.co.uk


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct  1 02:33:17 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:33:17 +1000
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<m2u0g1oonv.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.01.06.33.14.95966@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:18:44 -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote:

> *whoosh*
> 
> That, my friend, was the sound of a joke flying past and completely
> missing you. ;-)


Wouldn't be the first time, and surely not the last. *wink*


-- 
Steven.



From timr at probo.com  Tue Oct  4 02:44:17 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:44:17 GMT
Subject: question about smtplib
References: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1404.1128375138.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128380307.865252.289510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1494k1pvqvo9lg21q8bhi9qrgmc2ftl5kn@4ax.com>

nephish at xit.net wrote:

>cool. so this line
>server = smtplib.SMTP(localhost)
>is when i connect ?

Use the source, Luke.  Source code for every standard module is included on
your hard disk.  If you look in the __init__ for "class SMTP", your
question will be answered.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From tim at tt1lock.org  Tue Oct 18 03:59:47 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:59:47 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<11kj8ghonmialfc@corp.supernews.com>
	<o43rk198ujcqtvccet1blsmfte71vd0gt6@4ax.com>
	<op.syj5sdgy43pcxb@jukebox.roscopeco>
Message-ID: <IoJq7n.G9z@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Ross Bamford <rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk> wrote or quoted:

> Roedy, I would just _love_ to see the response from the industry when you  
> tell them they should dump their whole mail infrastructure, and switch  
> over to a whole new system (new protocols, new security holes, new  
> problems start to finish). [...]

That's essentially what the IM folk did.

It seems quite possible that future email systems will evolve out of
existing IM ones.

Essentially, IM can do pretty-much everything email can these days, but 
the reverse is not true at all.

IM also seems more evolvable than email is managing to be.

About all email has going for it these days is an open format and a
large existing user base.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From tziade at nuxeo.com  Wed Oct 19 12:11:05 2005
From: tziade at nuxeo.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:11:05 +0200
Subject: ssl and timeout issue
Message-ID: <43567019.2000109@nuxeo.com>

Hello,

I cannot manage to use socket timeouts with an  imap ssl connector,and i 
badly *need* it  :'(

I have already mentionned it here: 
http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20050620.151244.e5390efe.en.html

Does anyone have a solution ?

(I thought of coding my own threaded timer over the ssl socket, but...)


Tarek

Traceback:

>>> from imaplib import IMAP4_SSL, IMAP4_SSL_PORT
>>> import socket
>>> test = IMAP4_SSL('mail.xxxx.com', 993)
>>> test.sock.settimeout(10)
>>> test.login('xxx at xxx', 'password')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, *in* ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/imaplib.py", line 480, *in* login
    typ, dat = self._simple_command('LOGIN', user, self._quote(password))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/imaplib.py", line 1028, *in* _simple_command
    *return* self._command_complete(name, self._command(name, *args))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/imaplib.py", line 858, *in* _command_complete
    typ, data = self._get_tagged_response(tag)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/imaplib.py", line 959, *in* _get_tagged_response
    self._get_response()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/imaplib.py", line 876, *in* _get_response
    resp = self._get_line()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/imaplib.py", line 969, *in* _get_line
    line = self.readline()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/imaplib.py", line 1135, *in* readline
    char = self.sslobj.read(1)
socket.sslerror: The read operation timed out
>>> test = IMAP4_SSL('mail.xxxx.com', 993)
>>> test.login('xxx at xxx', 'password')
('OK', ['LOGIN Ok.'])

-- 
Tarek Ziad? | Nuxeo R&D (Paris, France)
CPS Plateform : http://www.cps-project.org
mail: tziade at nuxeo.com | tel: +33 (0) 6 30 37 02 63
You need Zope 3 - http://www.z3lab.org/



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 16:45:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:45:03 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86y84rxryr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<2R75f.2005$dO2.1121@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86mzl6yfko.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<nJb5f.3392$q%.714@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<861x2iy4vs.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<6Jc5f.4734$Zv5.2558@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <86u0fewo4w.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:

> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:861x2iy4vs.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> One alternative, as I've said, is to write to the standards, and then
>> work around bugs in the popular browsers. If the public whim changes
>> which browser is most popular -
> I am not holding my breath.

Neither did the people who coded for Mosaic, then Netscape.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Oct 28 13:53:06 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:53:06 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
Message-ID: <200510281053.07008.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Friday 28 October 2005 06:29, Bj?rn Lindstr?m wrote:
> "pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com" <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> writes:
> > f = open("filename", "rb")
> > s = f.read()
> > sub = "\x00\x00\x01\x00"
> > count = s.count(sub)
> > print count
>
> That's a lot of lines. This is a bit off topic, but I just can't stand
> unnecessary local variables.
>
> print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")


The "f" is not terribly unnecessary, because the part of the code you didn't 
see was

f.close()

Which would be considered good practice.

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From PrikrylP at skil.cz  Thu Oct  6 02:39:21 2005
From: PrikrylP at skil.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:39:21 +0200
Subject: What encoding is used when initializing sys.argv?
Message-ID: <E8AE1CAFC84D634A9CCC887B8AAB15EC03D4A8@skil01.skil.mistni>

Thanks, Martin v. L?wis, Neil Hodgson, and Tim Roberts.
I really appreciate your valuable comments. It simply
works.

Thanks again,
  Petr

"Neil Hodgson" wrote...
> Petr Prikryl:
> 
> > I do not understand what encoding should be used
> > to convert the sys.argv into unicode.
> 
> Martin mentioned CP_ACP. In Python on Windows, this 
> can be accessed as the "mbcs" codec.
> 
> import sys
> print repr(sys.argv[1])
> print repr(unicode(sys.argv[1], "mbcs"))
> 
> C:\bin>python glurp.py abc?*
> 'abc\xdf\x95'
> u'abc\xdf\u2022'
> 
>     Neil


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 17 13:19:22 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:19:22 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>

Web interfaces are missing a lot more than this. Here are just a few  
things that cannot be done with web-based interfaces (correct me  
where I'm wrong):

1) A real word processor.
2) Keybindings in a web application
3) Drag and drop
4) Resizable windows (i.e. not the browser window) within the  
application.
5) Anything other than absolutely trivial graphical programs.

State is a very small part of the whole thing. Progress is being  
made, but web interfaces are still basically forms that can contain  
buttons, checkboxes, text fields, and a few other basic controls. I  
wish it were otherwise.

Ken

On 16-Oct-05, at 5:04 PM, Mike Meyer wrote:

> Malte Clasen <malte.clasen at arcor.de> writes:
>
>
>> Claudio Grondi wrote:
>>
>>> What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet  
>>> Browser as a
>>> GUI?
>>>
>>
>> Nothing, but session management isn't trivial with http
>> interfaces. You have to deal with the back button of the browsers,
>> bookmarks to pages that result from posted forms, users leaving the
>> application without notice, etc..
>>
>
> This fact seems to have escaped the notice of most developers of web
> applications. They just fail and/or misbehave under all those
> conditions.
>

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From bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct  4 00:56:52 2005
From: bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de (Torsten Bronger)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:56:52 +0200
Subject: help w/ simple GPIB prog.
References: <1128394242.934045.165100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87r7b1j2wb.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>

Hall?chen!

"whoopsi" <allen.cross at gmail.com> writes:

>    Could someone give me some simple commands for communicating with
> GPIB devices.

If you find a file called visa32.dll on your system, you can just
use <http://pyvisa.sourceforge.net>.  NI ships this file bundled
with their GPIB hardware, and you can download the latest version
from <http://ni.com/visa>.

Tsch?,
Torsten.

-- 
Torsten Bronger, aquisgrana, europa vetus            ICQ 264-296-646


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct  6 05:29:24 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:29:24 +0200
Subject: Class property (was: Class methods)
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
	<mailman.1595.1128589518.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di2qp1$bor$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

> I was trying for a while, but I could not implement a 'classproperty'
> function. Is it possible at all?

You could define a "normal" property in the metaclass:

>>>>> class A:
...     class __metaclass__(type):
...             @property
...             def clsprp(cls): return 42
...
>>> A.clsprp
42

Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct  3 21:32:28 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:32:28 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xzmprueyg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkujx04.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xwtku1dh4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4341b386.3123890456@news.oz.net>

On 03 Oct 2005 14:45:43 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> > If you have a java class instance with a private member that's (say) a
>> > network socket to a special port, access to the port is controlled
>> > entirely by that class.
>> 
>> Are you sure? My understanding was that Java's introspection mechanism
>> could be used to access private variables.
>
>Right, I should have been more specific, if I understand correctly,
>there are some JVM settings that turn that on and off (I'm not any
>kind of expert on this).  For sandbox applets, it's turned off, for
>example.  This came up in a huge discussion thread on sci.crypt a few
>months ago.  Apparently the default is for it to be turned on, to the
>surprise and disappointment of some:
>
>  http://groups.google.com/group/sci.crypt/msg/23edaf95e9978a8d
>
>> A couple of other things to think about:
>> Are you sure you want to use the C++ model for privilege separation?
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by the C++ model.  If you mean the Java
>model, as I keep saying, applet sandbox security relies on it, so it
>may not be perfect but it's not THAT bad.  Using it routinely in
>normal applications would be a big improvement over what we do now.
>High-security applications (financial, military, etc.) would still
>need special measures.
>
>> C++'s design doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me. 
>
>Me neither, "C++ is to C as lung cancer is to lung".  
>
>> Finally, another hole to fix/convention to follow to make this work
>> properly in Python. This one is particularly pernicious, as it allows
>> code that doesn't reference your class at all to violate the private
>> variables. Anyone can dynamically add methods to an instance, the
>> class it belongs to, or to a superclass of that class. 
>
>Yes, Python isn't even type-safe any more:
>
>    class A(object): pass
>    class B(object): pass
>    a = A()
>    print type(a)
>    a.__class__ = B
>    print type(a)    # oops
>
>IMHO that "feature" you describe is quite inessential in Python.  The
>correct way to override or extend the operations on a class is to
>subclass it.  I can't think of a single place where I've seen Python
>code legitimately go changing operations by jamming stuff into the
>class object.  I'd consider the stdlib's socket.py to be illegitimate
>and it cost me a couple of hours of debugging one night:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/c9849013e37c995b
>
>and even that is only messing with specific instances, not classes.
>Make sure to have a barf bag handy if you look at the socket.py code.
>I really should open a sf bug about it.
But a class definition is just a syntactic sugar way to associate functions
with certain automatic method-binding operations for its instances, invoked
by other syntactic sugar. But you can do it without modifying the class itself.
E.g.,

 >>> add5 = (lambda self, x: self+x).__get__(5, type(5))
 >>> add5
 <bound method int.<lambda> of 5>
 >>> add5(10)
 15

I can't stuff the method on type(5) since it's built in,

 >>> type(5).add5 = (lambda self, x: self+x).__get__(5, type(5))
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: can't set attributes of built-in/extension type 'int'

but that doesn't stop forming a bound method ;-)

for a better name than <lambda> you can always fix it up ;-)

 >>> add5.im_func.func_name = 'add5'
 >>> add5
 <bound method int.add5 of 5>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 15:28:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:28:31 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <llrik1ph4mpkud83t9qpnjks533vpkv24e@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:54:32 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>Only if your photos are so obscure and confusing that they need captions.

That is a hair shirt approach.  What if someone is sending photos of
their new house? What if I am sending diagrams to help someone repair
their computer? It is ridiculous to tie people's arms behind their
backs.  What you do instead is work to prevent abuse.  Captions in and
of themselves are not dangerous things.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Wed Oct 12 15:55:10 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:55:10 -0400
Subject: Force flushing buffers
References: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<di8q7u$pku$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <434d69fc$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Robert Wierschke wrote:

> Madhusudan Singh schrieb:
>> Hi
>> 
>>         I have a python application that writes a lot of data to a bunch
>>         of files
>> from inside a loop. Sometimes, the application has to be interrupted and
>> I find that a lot of data has not yet been writen (and hence is lost).
>> How do I flush the buffer and force python to write the buffers to the
>> files ? I intend to put this inside the loop.
>> 
>> Thanks.
> disable the buffer!
> 
> open( filename[, mode[, bufsize]])
> 
> open takes an optional 3ed argument set bufsize = 0 means unbuffered.
> see the documentation of the in build file() mehtod as open is just
> another name

Though I will not be using this solution (plan to use flush() explicitly)
for speed reasons, thanks ! I will file this away for future reference :)


From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Wed Oct  5 12:38:13 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (M.N.A.Smadi)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:38:13 -0400
Subject: Posix return or exit
Message-ID: <43440175.9050406@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

hi;
my script must return codes which are based on the POSIX spec of 
returning a positive value.  A work perl version of my code uses 
exit(code_num).  I am not sure if the equivilant in python is also:
     exit(code_num)
or
    return code_num

any ideas?

thanks
moe smadi


From juho.schultz at helsinki.fi  Fri Oct 14 09:09:57 2005
From: juho.schultz at helsinki.fi (Juho Schultz)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:09:57 +0300
Subject: my array subset method could be improved?
In-Reply-To: <dio954$4a1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
References: <dio954$4a1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <dioan4$qj1$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Jim O'D wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I have an array a=array([2,3,1]).
> 
> I want to extract an array with all the elements of a that are less than 0.
> 
> Method 1.
> new = array([i for i in a if i < 0])
> 
> Method 2.
> new = a[nonzero(a<0)]
> 
> I'm using Numeric arrays but can't seem to find a function that does this.
> 
> Am I missing a more obvious way to do it quickly?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim

new = Numeric.compress(Numeric.less(a,0),a)


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 10:07:12 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:07:12 +0000
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <3smn47FoolfbU1@individual.net>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.2713.1130709910.509.python-list@python.org>	<1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3smn47FoolfbU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <dk5but$ctg$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Watson wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> ...
> 
>>>>>gc.garbage
>>
>>[<__main__.a object at 0x64cf0>, <__main__.b object at 0x58510>]
>>
>>So, no big deal -- run a gc.collect() and parse through gc.garbage for
>>any instances of your "wrapper of file" class, and you'll find ones that
>>were forgotten as part of a cyclic garbage loop and you can check
>>whether they were explicitly closed or not.
>>
>>
>>Alex
> 
> 
> Since everyone needs this, how about building it in such that files 
> which are closed by the runtime, and not user code, are reported or 
> queryable?  Perhaps a command line switch to either invoke or suppress 
> reporting them on exit.
> 
This is a rather poor substitute from correct program design and 
implementation. It also begs the question of exactly what constitutes a 
"file". What about a network socket that the user has run makefile() on? 
What about a pipe to another process? This suggestion is rather ill-defined.

> Is there any facility for another program to peer into the state of a 
> Python program?  Would this be a security problem?

It would indeed be a security problem, and there are enough of those 
already without adding more.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Oct 19 11:16:06 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 08:16:06 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<mark-247ED9.12341218102005@news.isp.giganews.com>
	<86ek6iy790.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<mark-C3CD9F.15243818102005@news.isp.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1129734966.013458.154650@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Mark Roseman wrote:
> What I'm suggesting is taking the effort you'd put to the 5%, and
> applying that effort instead to making the 95% even better.  If that
> extra effort would affect conversion rates, it's a justifiable option.

Yes, but isn't this where the 90/10 rule kicks in? In other words, you
transfer the effort from the 5% of users you don't care about, but then
just end up adding polish to the "majority" solution which doesn't
significantly improve conversion rates, all because you've done the
most effective work to "convert" those users already.

In this case it's even more perilous: adding "polish" could quite
easily eliminate parts of your audience, resulting in an only slightly
more plush red carpet being offered to significantly fewer people.

Paul



From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 13:17:39 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:17:39 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, that is certainly a start.  As you mentioned, the "cd" could is
an issue.

Perhaps checking to see if the line ends with ">" is sufficient?

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On 24 Oct 2005 07:20:42 -0700, "jas" <codecraig at gmail.com> declaimed the
> following in comp.lang.python:
>
> > Hi,
> >   I would like to start a new process and be able to read/write from/to
> > it.  I have tried things like...
> >
> > import subprocess as sp
> > p = sp.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> > p.stdin.write("hostname\n")
> >
> > however, it doesn't seem to work.  I think the cmd.exe is catching it.
>
> 	One: you didn't read any of the "returned" output...
>
> 	Two: the output only seems to be available upon EOF, which means the
> spawned command processor has to exit first... Though you CAN read one
> character at a time, and then have to build lines and expected prompt
> strings...
>
>
> This seems to work:
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> import subprocess
> import os
>
> PROMPT = os.getcwd() + ">"
>
> def getLine(proc):
>     ld = []
>     while True:
>         c = proc.stdout.read(1)
>         if c == "\r": continue  #skip Windows <cr>
>         if c != "\n": ld.append(c) #save all but <lf>
>         if c is None or c == "\n" or c == ">": break
>     ln = "".join(ld)
>     return ln
>
> p = subprocess.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stdin =
> subprocess.PIPE)
>
> print "**** START of captured output"
> while True:
>     ln = getLine(p)
>     print ln
>     if ln == PROMPT: break
> print "**** END of captured output"
>
> p.stdin.write("ipconfig\n")
> print "**** START of captured output"
> while True:
>     ln = getLine(p)
>     print ln
>     if ln == PROMPT: break
> print "**** END of captured output"
>
> p.stdin.write("dir\n")
> print "**** START of captured output"
> while True:
>     ln = getLine(p)
>     print ln
>     if ln == PROMPT: break
> print "**** END of captured output"
>
> p.stdin.write("exit\n")
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>python script1.py
> **** START of captured output
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> **** END of captured output
> **** START of captured output
> ipconfig
>
> Windows IP Configuration
>
>
> Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
>
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
>         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::211:11ff:fee1:f303%4
>         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
>
> Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
>
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> 3ffe:831f:4004:1956:0:fbde:bd0a:e50b
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5445:5245:444f%5
>         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
>
> Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
>
>         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
>         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.1.100%2
>         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> **** END of captured output
> **** START of captured output
> dir
>  Volume in drive E is Data
>  Volume Serial Number is 2626-D991
>
>  Directory of E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents
>
> 10/24/2005  09:23 AM    <DIR>
>           .
> 10/24/2005  09:23 AM    <DIR>
>           ..
> 07/25/2005  10:39 PM    <DIR>
>           .metadata
> 10/06/2005  09:54 AM    <DIR>
>           Ada Progs
> 08/13/2005  02:01 PM    <DIR>
>           Agent Data
> 10/21/2005  09:29 AM           421,820 apress_offer.pdf
> 07/03/2005  11:36 AM               132 cp.py
> 07/17/2005  12:25 PM    <DIR>
>           Cyberlink
> 07/06/2005  09:32 AM           102,400 db1.mdb
> 07/26/2005  12:20 AM            26,614 eclipse_code.xml
> 10/24/2005  01:08 AM    <DIR>
>           Eudora
> 06/24/2005  08:50 PM               667 fake_oosums.ads
> 06/24/2005  08:50 PM               695 fake_oosums.ali
> 09/06/2005  09:01 PM    <DIR>
>           Genealogy
> 07/13/2005  10:56 PM    <DIR>
>           HomeSite
> 05/08/2005  01:05 PM    <DIR>
>           Investing
> 10/21/2005  10:04 PM    <DIR>
>           Java Progs
> 08/04/2005  10:13 PM               162 main.py
> 10/11/2005  10:43 PM    <DIR>
>           My Downloads
> 05/01/2005  10:31 AM    <DIR>
>           My eBooks
> 04/22/2005  12:09 AM    <DIR>
>           My Music
> 07/10/2005  11:43 AM    <DIR>
>           My Pictures
> 06/29/2005  11:55 PM    <DIR>
>           My PSP Files
> 05/23/2005  09:30 AM    <DIR>
>           My Videos
> 05/01/2005  12:49 PM    <DIR>
>           Office Documents
> 06/27/2005  03:19 PM         7,961,778
> org.eclipse.jdt.doc.user.I20050627-1435.pdf
> 06/27/2005  03:19 PM         6,791,109
> org.eclipse.platform.doc.user.I20050627-1435.pdf
> 10/11/2005  10:52 PM                56 oth_tsr_rm_750.ram
> 07/20/2005  09:32 AM           108,457 parkerred15yc.jpg
> 09/03/2005  10:36 PM    <DIR>
>           Python Progs
> 10/20/2005  10:38 PM    <DIR>
>           Quicken
> 07/10/2005  12:09 PM         3,356,248 results.xml
> 06/11/2005  12:03 PM               935 Scout_Ship Database.lnk
> 07/03/2005  12:38 PM    <DIR>
>           Scout_Ship My Documents
> 10/24/2005  09:23 AM               971 Script1.py
> 09/25/2005  12:40 PM             1,107 Script1_old.py
> 08/28/2005  11:47 AM    <DIR>
>           SimpleMu Logs
> 06/24/2005  08:56 PM             1,201 student_pack.ads
> 06/24/2005  08:49 PM             1,144 student_pack.ads.0
> 06/24/2005  08:56 PM             1,342 student_pack.ali
> 08/02/2005  11:39 PM             4,096 t.DOC
> 06/20/2005  10:11 AM               104 t.rx
> 08/05/2005  08:41 PM            66,452 Untitled-1.tif
> 08/05/2005  08:41 PM    <DIR>
>           VCheck
> 10/03/2005  02:58 AM    <DIR>
>           Visual Studio
> 10/03/2005  02:51 AM    <DIR>
>           Visual Studio 2005
>               21 File(s)     18,847,490 bytes
>               25 Dir(s)  267,162,845,184 bytes free
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> **** END of captured output
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> 	Note that my "getLine()" has to return on either a real EOL, OR on
> the end of a command prompt ("stuff>"). I also had to initialize the
> prompt at the start. If someone issued a "cd" command to the subprocess,
> the prompt would be all out of sequence, and the code would hang.
>
> 	You'll also note that the prompt /ends/ a capture sequence, and the
> next command is the start of the /next/ capture sequence.
>
> --
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
>  >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >           Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/>            <
>  >        Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/>        <



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 23 05:56:54 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:56:54 +1000
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2319.1129827209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.11.05.42.788160@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<861x2dbcwv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.23.03.26.31.605027@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86u0f894w3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.09.56.53.888467@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:30:36 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:

>> At least, that's what it looks like to me -- I'm perplexed by the *vast*
>> increase in speed in your version, far more than I would have predicted
>> from pulling out the char conversion. I can think of three
>> possibilities:
> 
> Everything got faster, so it wasn't just pulling the chr conversion.

Sure -- I'm not concerned about proportional speed increases.
 
>> (1) Your PC is *hugely* faster than mine;
> 
> It's a 3Ghz P4.

Perhaps a tad faster, but not too much.
 
>> (2) Your value of x is a lot smaller than I was using (you don't actually
>> say what x you use); or
> 
> It's still in the buffer, and I copied it from your timings:
> 
>>>> x = 100000
> 
>> (3) You are using a version and/or implementation of Python that has a
>> different underlying implementation of string concatenation.
> 
> I'm runing Python 2.4.1 built with GCC 3.4.2.

There is a difference there:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.4/whatsnew/node12.html

Second-last paragraph:

[quote]
String concatenations in statements of the form s = s + "abc" and s +=
"abc" are now performed more efficiently in certain circumstances. This
optimization won't be present in other Python implementations such as
Jython, so you shouldn't rely on it; using the join() method of strings is
still recommended when you want to efficiently glue a large number of
strings together. (Contributed by Armin Rigo.)
[end quote]


-- 
Steven.



From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 12:49:24 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:49:24 +0300
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1448.1128442980.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
	<mailman.1448.1128442980.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhubpl$1k7f$1@news.tsua.net>


there are a lot of packeges under suspicion:

cPickle, select, threading, logging, socket, struct


Michael Ekstrand wrote:
> On Tuesday 04 October 2005 11:13, Maksim Kasimov wrote:
> 
>>my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter
>>how long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is
>>nothing in log-files that can points the problem. My question is how
>>it possible to find out where is the problem in the code? Thanks for
>>any help.
> 
> 
> What extension modules are you using?
> 
> I've never seen "stock" Python (stable release w/ only included modules) 
> segfault, but did see a segfault with an extension module I was using 
> the other week (lxml IIRC, but I'm not sure).
> 
> - Michael


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 19:00:35 2005
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 16:00:35 -0700
Subject: reload fails if module not in sys.path
Message-ID: <1129849234.985211.141940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

So, it turns out that reload() fails if the module being reloaded isn't
in sys.path.

Maybe it could fall back to module.__file__ if the module isn't found
in sys.path??
... or reload could just take an optional path parameter...

Or perhaps I'm the only one who thinks this is silly:

>>> my_module = imp.load_module(module_name, *imp.find_module(module_name,path))
>>> reload(my_module)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named whatever


I guess I could just deal with this by fiddling with sys.path or using
imp.load_module again, but.. um.. I like to complain. ;-)

The context here is that I'm loading user-defined modules as plugins,
and I don't want to keep the plugin directory in sys.path because of
potential module name conflicts.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 19:50:31 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:50:31 -0700
Subject: matching elements of numeric arrays
In-Reply-To: <1129239096.340248.222440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129239096.340248.222440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dimrs8$vo1$1@sea.gmane.org>

daniel.neilson at gmail.com wrote:
> I have two one-dimensional Numeric arrays, and I need to know the
> indices in the second array of elements from the first.
> 
> so if i had:
> 
> a=array([2,4,6])
> b=array([2,3,4,5,6])
> 
> i want a function match that does this:
> 
> 
>>>>match(a,b)
> 
> array([0,2,4])
> 
> i have something that works, but it involves converting things to lists
> and using 'in', and it is rather slow. if someone could point me to a
> better solution, i would appreciate it.

If b is sorted, then you can use Numeric.searchsorted(b, a).

Otherwise:

In [28]: import Numeric as N

In [29]: a = N.array([2,4,6])

In [30]: b = N.array([2,3,4,5,6])

In [31]: match = N.equal.outer(a, b)

In [32]: idx = N.compress(N.sum(match), N.arange(len(b)))

In [33]: idx
Out[33]: array([0, 2, 4])


-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Sat Oct 29 19:57:54 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 01:57:54 +0200
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
In-Reply-To: <1130502180.688390.207960@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4361e8f5$0$32420$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<1130502180.688390.207960@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <436402aa$0$19243$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

dcrespo a ?crit :
>>I think it would be time for you to read the Fine Manual...
> 
> 
> hi, thanks for your answer... I really did it the same way you
> suggested, but I forgot to tell you that I wanted to get a better way
> for doing it.

Let us know if you find one...

> 
> By the way, knowing your wisdom, 
> what do I have to install to get the
> following code work (Win XP, Python 2.4.2)

<troll>
Being wise, I don't use Windows !-)
</troll>


From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 09:07:30 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:07:30 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1128431250.573501.46540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug?

While I can only speak from my own experience I can't  remember a
single instance where this type of bug caused any kind of serious
problem.  IMHO these are very trivial errors, that get caught
immediately and I would not  even qualify them as bugs, more like
typos, spelling mistakes, etc.

Real bugs are a lot more insidious than that, and they might even occur
more frequently  if there was type checking ...  since it might even
lead to longer code

just my $0.01

Istvan.



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Tue Oct 11 08:51:29 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:51:29 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<mailman.1837.1128950861.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h485kt.1bru0if72epwrN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<dig6mc$20k$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <digci9$c10$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> Another idea for this method would be that in some cases I noticed that 
> it was useful to know which source each element would come from as well, 
> as well as removing duplicates from the results.
> 
<snip>

The "removing duplicates" problem would probably be best as a separate 
function and it occurs to me that perhaps Python has such a function 
already.

Again, this function would need the following criteria:

1. Be able to iterate through something other than a list
2. Yield the values, not return a list
3. Take an arbitrary cmp function to determine what is a duplicate

As sugar, perhaps also the following criteria:

- Ability to "combine" the duplicates through a special function

A simple first-version function I hacked together does this:

def unique(source, cmp=cmp, key=None, combine=None):
     it = iter(source)
     first = True
     value = it.next()
     values = [value]
     while True:
         try:
             value = it.next()
             if key is not None:
                 cmp_result = cmp(values[0][key], value[key])
             else:
                 cmp_result = cmp(values[0], value)
             if cmp_result == 0:
                 values.append(value)
             else:
                 if combine is not None:
                     yield combine(values)
                 else:
                     yield values[0]
                 values = [value]
         except StopIteration:
             if combine is not None:
                 yield combine(values)
             else:
                 yield values[0]
             break
     raise StopIteration

Note that this function does not do any sorting so if the source that it 
gets the values from is not sorted, the result will be very wrong. This 
is again due to my criteria of being able to handle cursors retrieving 
data from a database and thus avoid loading everything into memory.

The combine function is passed a list of "duplicate" values and must 
return a value that will be yielded out of unique.

Example of usage:

def sum_counts(values):
     value = values[0][0]
     sum = 0
     for row in values:
         sum += row[1]
     return value, sum

fruits = [["Apple", 10], ["Apple", 15], ["Banana", 23], ["Orange", 17], 
["Orange", 17]]
for fruit, total_sum in unique(fruits, key=0, combine=sum_counts):
     print fruit, "has a sum of", total_sum

This will produce:

Apple has a sum of 25
Banana has a sum of 23
Orange has a sum of 34

Function name is perhaps not the best one. It occurs to me that this is 
the GROUP BY function in SQL so perhaps a different name is better, but 
then again this might be moot if such a function already exists somewhere :)

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 20:24:54 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 17:24:54 -0800
Subject: OpenSSL in Python
In-Reply-To: <slrndm52ja.e43.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
References: <1130425810.431748.39660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm52ja.e43.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <1130808294.188603.169680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

First, is the PYTHON OpenSSL C wrapper what I need to get running.
Second, if you don't know how to answer, then limit your opinion to
yourself.

Thanks.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 11 20:30:47 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:30:47 +0200
Subject: Python name lookups / Interning strings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1923.1129070169.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1923.1129070169.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434C5937.6060007@v.loewis.de>

Dave wrote:
> What exactly does it mean to "intern" a string?

"exactly" it means to place lookup the string in the
global interning dictionary. If an entry is found,
then interning yields the string in the interning dictionary.
If the string is not found, it is added to the interning
dictionary, and returned; its "interning state" is set
to "interned" (either mortally or immortally, depending
on the exact interning request).

More colloquially, it means to find a unique representative
of the set of all equal-valued strings (e.g. one unique
representative for all strings equalling "close"). If
a and b are variables referring to interned strings,
'a==b' implies 'a is b' (whereas usually only the
reverse is true).

HTH,
Martin


From http  Fri Oct  7 18:07:17 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 15:07:17 -0700
Subject: socketServer questions
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> The server just logs data, nothing else. It's not private or important
> data... just sys admin type stuff (ip, mac addy, etc.). I just don't
> want some script kiddie discovering it and trying to 'hack' it. By doing
> so, they'd fill the log up with crap. So, If the data doesn't contain x,
> y, and z and if the data is too big or too small, I record it to a
> 'tamper' log and tell the leet hacker to 'go away'. 

Well, rather than this x,y,z stuff, it's best to do it properly and
authenticate the records with the hmac module.  


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Mon Oct 24 06:50:58 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:50:58 -0700
Subject: [OT] Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <435c9906$0$14034$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <43593468$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<435c9906$0$14034$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <435cbbd6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

bruno modulix wrote:
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
>>bruno modulix wrote:
>>>... Another language that failed to make it to the mainstream but is
>>>worth giving a try is Smalltalk - the father of OOPLs (Simula being the
>>>GrandFather). 
>>I would say Simula is the forefather of modern OOPLs, and Smalltalk is
>>the toofather.
> Err... I'm afraid I don't understand this last word (and google have not
> been of much help here)

Sorry, I was being too cute by half.  If Simula is the fore father
(4 away) then Smalltalk is half as far (2) away.  Hence the "toofather."
"Toofather" by analogy with the homophones "fore" and "four" we use the
homophones "two" and "too".

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From mtebeka at qualcomm.com  Tue Oct 11 04:52:51 2005
From: mtebeka at qualcomm.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:52:51 +0200
Subject: SOAPpy, WSDL, non-standard types and my graying hair
Message-ID: <20051011085251.GJ9272@qualcomm.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to use SOAPpy with WSDL (talking to http://www.seapine.com/ttpro.html).

proxy.show_methods for getRecordListForTable is:

Method Name: getRecordListForTable

   In #0: cookie  ((u'http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema', u'long'))
   In #1: tablename  ((u'http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema', u'string'))
   In #2: filtername  ((u'http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema', u'string'))
   In #3: columnlist  ((u'urn:testtrack-interface', u'ArrayOfCTableColumn'))

   Out #0: recordlist  ((u'urn:testtrack-interface', u'CRecordListSoap'))

I know how to prepare the first three arguments (using SOAPpy.stringType and
SOAPpy.longType). I can't find the documentation on how to prepare the last
argument.

Any ideas? pointers? ...

Thanks.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <mtebeka at qualcomm.com>
http://tebeka.bizhat.com
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys
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From http  Sat Oct 29 18:18:09 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 15:18:09 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <7x1x24x90e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Paul Watson" <pwatson at redlinepy.com> writes:
> How could I identify when Python code does not close files and depends on 
> the runtime to take care of this?  I want to know that the code will work 
> well under other Python implementations and future implementations which may 
> not have this provided. 

There is nothing in the Python language reference that guarantees the
files will be closed when the references go out of scope.  That
CPython does it is simply an implementation artifact.  If you want to
make sure they get closed, you have to close them explicitly.  There
are some Python language extensions in the works to make this more
convenient (PEP 343) but for now you have to do it by hand.


From horton_brian at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  3 05:22:00 2005
From: horton_brian at hotmail.com (horton_brian at hotmail.com)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 02:22:00 -0700
Subject: cspython on Windows?
Message-ID: <1128331320.592073.108160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Looking around the web I get the impression development of cspython
hasn't kept up with the development of Crystalspace itself, but is it
possible without rebuilding the whole of Crystalspace from source, to
install cspython on Windows so as to access the Crystalspace runtime
environment I've installed using crystalspace_0.99_050823.exe?
Brian



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 02:23:20 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:23:20 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4n6ag.5uhq7a7xe1v4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86ach6y6ta.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h4o6eo.4gi3s6xgesmzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> > Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> >> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
> >> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
> >> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
> >> told that that's what's going on.
> > In firms where marketing has lots of power, they may indeed well decide
> > to pursue those "10 millions" by demanding an expenditure of effort
> > that's totally out of proportion
> 
> What makes you think that the expenditure of effort is "totally out of
> proportion"? In my experience, that isn't the case - at least if you
> go into it planning on doing things that way. Retrofitting a site that
> was built without any thought but "make it work in my favoriter
> browser in my favorite configuration" can be a radically different
> thing.

Why, of course -- coding a site to just one browser would be foolish
(though there exist sites that follow that strategy, it's still
despicable).  What I'm talking about is sites that are _supposed_ to be
able to support a dozen browsers, in three or four versions each, not to
mention a dozen features each of which the user "might" have chosen to
disable (for a total of 2**12 == 4096 possibilities).  Of course, the
site's poor authors cannot possibly have tested the 4096 * 12 * 3.5
possibilities, whence the "_supposed_ to be".

We ARE talking about moving from supporting 95% to supporting
(*supposedly*!) 100%, after all -- very much into the long, *LONG* tail
of obscure buggy versions of this browser or that, which SOME users
within those last centiles may have forgotten to patch/upgrade, etc.
And THAT is what makes the effort totally out of proportion (differently
from the effort to go from 60% to 95%, which, while far from negligible,
is well within sensible engineering parameters).


> > Maybe that's part of the explanation for the
> > outstanding success of some enterprises founded by engineers, led by
> > engineers, and staffed overwhelmingly with engineers, competing with
> > other firms where marketing wield power...?
> 
> You mean like google? Until recently, they're an outstanding example
> of doing things right, and providing functionality that degrades
> gracefully as the clients capabilities go down.

I'm not sure what you mean by "until recently" in this context.  AFAIK,
we've NEVER wasted our efforts by pouring them into the quixotic task of
supporting *100%* of possible browsers that may hit us, with the near
infinite number of combinations of browsers, versions and disabled
feature that this would require.  One may quibble whether the target
percentage should be, say, 93%, 95%, or 97%, and what level of
degradation can still be considered "graceful" around various axes, but
the 100% goal which you so clearly imply above would, in my personal
opinion, be simply foolish now, just as it would have been 3 years ago.


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 18 22:38:32 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:38:32 -0400
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
	<1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8MudnZpGf80SLMjeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

dcrespo wrote:
>>Before, after, or during the .start() call, or somewhere else?
> I'd like to catch *just after* the .start() call.

Excellent.  That makes it pretty easy then, since even though you are 
spawning a thread to do the work, your main thread isn't expected to 
continue processing in parallel.  See my draft solution below.  If it 
doesn't seem to suit, explain where it fails you and we can try to 
evolve it (assuming we're on the same page at all here).

> When you specify the case number 2, the IP must be valid for the
> computer where the program runs, otherwise, it raises an exception
> saying that "Can't assign requested address".
> 
> MainProgram.py
> ...
> SrvrTCP = module.ThreadedTCPServer(ip,port)
> SrvrTCP.start()
 > #Here, I want to know if the TCPServer started well.

Leave that part as it is.  We'll override the start() method in your 
subclass to solve your problem.

> module.py
> ...
> class ThreadedTCPServer(threading.Thread):
> 
>     def __init__(self, ip,port):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         self.ip= ip
>         self.port= port
           self.startError = None
           self.startedEvent = threading.Event()


       def start(self):
           '''start thread and wait for successful start'''
           threading.Thread.start(self)
           self.startedEvent.wait()
           if self.startError:
               raise self.startError


>     def run(self):
>         TCPServer((self.ip,self.port)) #Here, if the self.ip is
> invalid, it raises an exception.
> ...

We have to change the run() method slightly now:

       def run(self):
           try:
               try:
                   TCPServer((self.ip, self.port))
               except Exception, ex:
                   self.startError = ex
                   return
           finally:
               self.startedEvent.set()

           # do the rest of the existing run() code here


Now that may not be perfect, since I'm not familiar with the TCPServer() 
call.  I've sort of assumed it does something quickly and returns, or 
raises an exception if the input is bad.  If it doesn't actually return 
if it starts successfully, you would need a little different approach. 
Probably adding a simple timeout to the self.startEvent.wait() call 
would work.

Note also that you don't get the full original traceback with this 
technique.  I'm not sure you can, actually (though I can imagine that 
with Python one could "stitch together" a traceback from a previous 
exception as one raises a new exception).  From what you describe, 
however, it sounds like you just need to know that the exception 
occurred, not the precise line of code down in TCPServer() where it was 
originally raised.

I hope that helps and/or gives you some leads on a better solution.

-Peter


From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Fri Oct 14 20:46:18 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:46:18 +0200
Subject: Numeric array equivalent of index ?
Message-ID: <20051015024618.655167de@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

Hello,

I'm trying to find a clear and fast equivalent to the index method of
plain python list :
>> a = [5,1,4,3,4]
>> a.index(4)
2

I have to use it on a Numeric array, so the best I've come up with is
(rather ugly I think) :
>> from Numeric import array, equal, nonzero
>> a = array([5,1,4,3,4])
>> nonzero(equal(a,4))[0]
2


Does someone know of a more Pythonic way ?

Thanks,


From ashokagk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 14:53:04 2005
From: ashokagk at gmail.com (Ashok)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 11:53:04 -0700
Subject: how to associate files with application
Message-ID: <1130439184.801178.280190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi,
i want to know how to make a specific type of file open in an
application i developed in python when the user clicks on the file.(in
windows) for eg. a .txt file when clicked opens in notepad, a .doc file
when clicked opens in MS-word. In the same way i want to make a .xyz
file open in the application i developed when clicked.
thanks in advance for any advice.



From mru at inprovide.com  Sat Oct 15 20:17:53 2005
From: mru at inprovide.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:17:53 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86ll0vs1sw.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>
>> What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
>> practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
>> PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
>> Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
>> didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.
>
>     Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car 
> without an engine.

That's more like buying a computer without a CPU, which I can in fact
do.  Buying a computer without ms windows is more like buying a hifi
set without a Britney Spears CD.  I can do that too.

-- 
M?ns Rullg?rd
mru at inprovide.com


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:21:29 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:21:29 -0700
Subject: Pythot doc problem: lambda keyword...
In-Reply-To: <1128925487.783702.198410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128925487.783702.198410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <did4pt$c68$1@sea.gmane.org>

Xah Lee wrote:
> i'm trying to lookup on the detail of language Python's ?lambda?
> function feature.

google("site:docs.python.org lambda")

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From christoph.soellner at web.de  Tue Oct 18 07:23:46 2005
From: christoph.soellner at web.de (Christoph Söllner)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:23:46 +0200
Subject: HTTPResponse.read() returns an empty string?
Message-ID: <dj2lvt$s30$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>

Hi again,

my Source:
"""
import httplib
conn = httplib.HTTPConnection('www.python.org');
conn.request("GET", "/index.html");
answ = conn.getresponse();
print answ.status, answ.reason
>>> 200 OK
conn.close();
print "Start";
>>> Start
print answ.read();
>>>
print len(answ.read());
>>> 0
print "End";
>>> End

And the header states a content length of 11kBytes. What am I doin wrong?

Thanks again,
Chris 




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  2 04:06:03 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 18:06:03 +1000
Subject: Python 3! Finally!
References: <dhk1ds$654$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<Xns96E27802B8766duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.1337.1128236789.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.02.08.06.03.361157@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 02:06:26 -0500, Steve Bergman wrote:

> Someone proposes that in the case that there is a 
> filename collision, the user might simply be prompted to decide on a 
> filename. 

You mean like every single other GUI application that saves files does?

> Firefox devs totally reject that idea (and rather
> vehemently).  You see, that would totally freak out the end user, 

You mean like they freak out when it happens with IE, Word, Excel,
Pagemaker, Quark Xpress, Photoshop, Gimp, OpenOffice, Access, Corel Draw,
Outlook, Opera, and Kwrite (to mention just a few)?

> and that is *certainly* not a good solution.

Heaven's no, we can't be having with that sort of thing.

> So the interim solution, for over a year, has been to leave it broken 
> for everyone...

Because of course end users certainly won't be confused to save a file
called "Fred1" and find "Fred2" instead, oh no.

I'm surprised that they don't just add Yet Another Secret Option to
Firefox's preferences: FileCollision, with two possible values: "Do the
wrong thing" and "Ask the user".

After all, more preferences are always good, right?


-- 
Steven.



From http  Sat Oct 15 03:40:51 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 00:40:51 -0700
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xhdbjp6rg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Anthony Liu <antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com> writes:
> I do I split the string by using both ' ' and '_' as
> the delimiters at once?

Use re.split.


From Anthony.Hornby at cdu.edu.au  Wed Oct 26 19:29:47 2005
From: Anthony.Hornby at cdu.edu.au (Anthony.Hornby at cdu.edu.au)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:59:47 +0930
Subject: Web presentation layer/framework for python - recommendations?
Message-ID: <OF69E716FF.765A3D1C-ON692570A6.007E8380@ntu.edu.au>

Hi,
I am a python newbie and need some advice.
I have been charged with redeveloping a web application with a front end written in python that has a backend of XML files.
Currently it doesn't adequately separate out the presentation code from the content code.
Frankly it?s a mess (think bowl of spagetti).

Does anyone have any recommendations for python toolkits or templating systems that would simplify the cleanup and make the code more maintainable in the future? I am a newbie, but not afraid to have a go. I also haven't done any real application programming for a while - bit of perl and java stuff a few years back. Just do perl/python/shell scripting these days.

All comments welcome :-)

Regards Anthony.

 Mr Anthony Hornby
Library Systems and Technology Coordinator
Charles Darwin University (CRICOS 300K)
Phone: +61 8 8946 6011
Email: anthony.hornby at cdu.edu.au.no-spam
(remove the .no-spam)


From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 03:32:45 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 00:32:45 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2486.1130167209.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2486.1130167209.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

> Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know,
> I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems.
> --Jamie Zawinski

Thanks for the citation.

If my goal had been to redesign my program, I would not ask questions
about regular expressions. I do not have the time to redesign my
program. And knowing that my situation would be better, if I had
written other code in the past, does not help me at all.

I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups. If someone told me
that it is very unlikely for Python to get rid of the said limitation,
I would recode part of my program in C++ using pcre. But I would prefer
to be able to do everything in Python. That is why I asked.

J?rg



From quietwarlock at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:27:44 2005
From: quietwarlock at gmail.com (quietwarlock at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 13:27:44 -0700
Subject: First Person View with Python
Message-ID: <1129840064.911904.152580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hey,

For a bit, I've been trying to create a first person view in Python,
currently using the Soya engine. And while I can make the camera, and
where I want it, how do I link it to controls? So that I can use WASD,
etc. to move the camera?



From kent37 at tds.net  Wed Oct 19 16:13:25 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:13:25 -0400
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4356a6e7$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com wrote:
> So I want to define a method that takes a "boolean" in a module, eg.
> 
> def getDBName(l2):
> ...
> 
> Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?
> 
> Eg.
> x = 10 # makes it an INT
> whereas
> x = "hello" # makes it a string

You don't have it quite right. In each case, the name 'x' is bound to a value. The type is a property of the value, not of the name.
> 
> I take it, the parameters to a function (in the above example "l2") are
> bound in the definition, rather than as invoked.

No, the parameter values are bound to the parameter names at the time of call. Again, it is the value that is typed, not the name.

> 
> So, if I use "l2" thus:
> 
> if (l2): # only then does it make it a boolean?

No, this doesn't change the type of the value bound to l2, it just evaluates the value as True or False according to the rules here:
http://docs.python.org/ref/Booleans.html#Booleans
> 
> and if I did,
> 
> if (l2 = "hello"): # would it become string?

No; assuming you mean to compare l2 == "hello", this will call a special method of the object bound to l2, passing "hello" as a parameter. The result will be evaluated as True or False. The actual method called on l2 may be __cmp__ or __eq__.
http://docs.python.org/ref/customization.html

Kent

> 
> and what if I never used it in the definition body?
> 
> Elucidate please.
> 


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 20:05:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:05:31 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Ilb2f.18523$bb3.758915@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>
	<7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>
	<1129154547.6d0f3b178a128cc5f647dc0e128bc180@teranews>
Message-ID: <ul8rk1pfe67dsfb4gh0q73ittmprh8liuj@4ax.com>

uOn Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:02:23 GMT, iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
wrote or quoted :

>Summary: a buffer overflow problem in Microsoft's JPEG redering
>library, used my almost all Windoze email and web clients, would allow
>an attacker to execute any arbitrary code he wished on your computer
>simply by tricking you into viewing a doctored JPEG image.  Since
>solved (this problem is _so_ last year, dahling), but it belies your
>assertion that "pictures are not code."

By your definition all socket communications contains code because of
the existence of buffer overrun "bugs" -- probably deliberately put
there by unscrupulous employees.  

The pictureness is not at fault. MS was at fault. 

No  wonder the community has failed to solve spam with attitudes like
that -- extreme naysaying, misplacing the source of the problem, and
calling each other "dahling" is bound to get everyone out of a
problem-solving mode.

You probably were all told the story of the three sillies as a child
about people who wept themselves to inaction worrying imagined futures
rather than dealing with the realities of the present.  I think
fretting about minutiae, and the desire for a perfect ant-spam
solution has blocked getting on with a reasonable solution.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 16:26:50 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:26:50 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <tluik1ttskfsqb175v3gma36848liub5da@4ax.com>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:44:42 GMT, Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote or
quoted :

>``Like ICQ, someone cannot send you mail without your prior permission. 
>  They can't send you mail because they don't have your public key to
>  encrypt the mail.''
>
>...is pretty confusing - because "public key" is a term with a technical
>meaning in cryptography - and a public key really *is* public.

What I envisioned was you would give a "public" key to someone you
wanted to converse with you.  He would encrypt all mail with that.  He
could give that key to someone else, who could then impersonate him.

Most likely that second person would be his laptop. 

Let's say he posted the key in the New York Times, then anyone could
impersonate him.  You would the deactivate him, just as if he were a
spammer.  You might or might not give him a new key when he begged for
permission to communicate.

In my opinion, the weakest link in my scheme is the initial beg for
permission to send.  Here a stranger has to, in one line, tell you who
he is and why he wants to talk to you. This is much like a spam title
that tries to trick you into reading the body of the message.  You
still need spam list to help filter these types out.

My scheme should work fine if you are not someone like me who gets a
lot of legit mail from strangers.

Perhaps you could slow them down with some randomly chosen questions
to prove they know something about you.  Companies could do the same
thing.

You can inconvenience the sender to a fair degree since most people
don't often write strangers with the expectation of a personal
correspondence.




-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:49:50 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 03:49:50 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3bnhlx1m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128422990.741343.292310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> writes:
> > Now that I'm three months into the development of this program, my
> > client tells me she would like to protect her investment by preventing
> > her employees from doing the same to her.  (Going to the competition
> > and using her program.)
>
> Exactly what is the threat here?

I think the BIGGEST threat here is a feeling of vulnerablity.  She now
realizes that she is in a position that her competition was many years
ago when she came into possesion of program the 'other side' was using
and that she is now vulnerable.  She wants to feel safe in the
knowledge that she didn't reach into her pocket and pay thousands of
dollars for a program that now could now be used by her competition.
Nobody wants to pay money to level the playing field for all in a
business environment.

> Misuse of confidential data, or

It's just a collection of names, addresses, phone numbers, birthdays
and drivers licences/health cards.  I can think of a few dishonest
things that could be done with this but her competition has the
basically the same clients.

> just the code itself?
> Does the code do anything that fantastic?

Not by my standards but it is slowly replacing a paper system.  (Police
officer shows up and says 'We've just arrested John Smith.  Has he sold
you anything in the last 90 days.  The client says 'Just a minute' and
reaches for a set of 4" d-ring binders and turns hundreds of pages
looking for a Smith name...)  My client is relived that this senario
will soon disappear.

> Did the employees sign NDA's?  Usually this kind of thing is taken care of by
> legal agreements.

Good question!  I'm pretty sure not but that's something I could
suggest to her.

> What is the competitor going to do with this code even if they get it?

Simplify their lives.  See above.

> It's just keeping track of transactions and stuff, right?

You are correct sir.

> It's being
> tailored to one person's specific preferences and requirements, and
> the competitor's needs will be different and they may as well just use
> something generic.

Not really.  The client just wants to track people and what they buy,
sell or put on buyback.  Their competitions needs are the same.

> Also, is there an office network?  Maybe you could run the program on
> a server that most employees wouldn't have access to.  They'd use it
> through some limited client program or through a web browser.

A network exists but the client insists on a standalone PC.



From dan at wolf.com  Sun Oct 30 07:25:51 2005
From: dan at wolf.com (Dan M)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 04:25:51 -0800
Subject: query a port
References: <1130642480.233982.197760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.05.14.58.2000@wolf.com>
	<1130653276.745449.31030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.30.12.25.50.496000@wolf.com>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:21:16 -0700, eight02645999 wrote:

> thanks alot!
> that's all there is to it..so it's just a simple connect.

If all you want to do is check that the given port is open on the given
host, that's it. I tried it on my local box. When connecting to port 25,
it made the connection fine. Trying to connect to port 26 raised a
socket.error.



From stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de  Fri Oct 28 17:29:09 2005
From: stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de (Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:29:09 +0200
Subject: newstyle classes and __getattribute__
In-Reply-To: <4362977f$0$7227$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <4362977f$0$7227$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <43629825.1020102@freenet.de>

Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens schrieb:
> Hi there,
> I'm facing some strange things - but maybe only me is strange - anyway...
> 
> i wrote the following code:
> 
> 
> +++
> class T(object):
>     def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
>         self.name=name
>         self.port=port
> +++
> 
> looks fine - to me.
> 
> Now I can do:
> 
> 
>  >>> t = T(name="test",port=8080)
>  >>> print t
> <__main__.T object at 0x00BE36D0>
> 
>  >>> print t.name
> test
>  >>> dir(t)
> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', 
> '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', 
> '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__', 
> 'name', 'port']
> 
> Everything ok.
> 
> Now, I do this:
> 
> class T(object):
>     def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
>         self.name=name
>         self.port=port
>     def __getattribute__(self,key):
>         if key=='somekey':
>             return None
> 
> where
> 
>  >>> dir(T)
> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', 
> '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', 
> '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__']
> 
> is ok, also.
> 
> But, then surprise:
>  >>> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
>  >>> dir(t)
> []
> 
> What the hell is going wrong here ?
> I'm running Python 2.4.2 from python.org on Windows XP SP2, all patches 
> applied.
> 
> Thx in advance.
> 

Ok, to make it worse:
I tried the same under Cygwin with Python 2.4.1 -
it worked as expected.


From ejensen at visi.com  Thu Oct 20 10:45:50 2005
From: ejensen at visi.com (Ed Jensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:45:50 -0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rlj78Fjsu7mU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2244.1129711847.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rmh1uFk236lU1@individual.net>
	<11lcnqt2c7jhmcc@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.2276.1129757449.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11lfbcufad70618@corp.supernews.com>

Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I'd have to agree with this. Unfortunately, the only way to use Swing  
> (in a
> reasonable manner) from Python is to use Jython, and Jython has other
> shortcomings that make me not want to use it.

What shortcomings?


From donbro at mac.com  Mon Oct 31 00:28:22 2005
From: donbro at mac.com (donbro)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 21:28:22 -0800
Subject: MacOS Extension Carbon.File.FSCatalogInfo file sizes should be UInt64?
Message-ID: <1130736502.902026.91020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


If my read of the extension source (Mac/Modules/file/_Filemodule.c) is
correct, the parameter sizes specified for data and resource file sizes
are UInt32 where they should be UInt64.

In both OS9 and OSX Carbon, the MacOS File Manager (Files.h) uses
UInt64 values for data and resource filesizes.

Testing Python 2.3 and 2.4.2 on MacOS 10.3 returns 0L for the file size
values and correct values for other elements such as parentDirID:

>>> fsRef = FSRef('LICENSE')
>>> catinfo, d1, d2, d3  = fsRef.FSGetCatalogInfo(-1L)
>>> catinfo.dataPhysicalSize
0
>>> catinfo.parentDirID
2026177


in Files.h, both OS9 and OSX Carbon, the elements are UInt64:

struct FSCatalogInfo {
[...]
    UInt64                          dataLogicalSize;
    UInt64                          dataPhysicalSize;
    UInt64                          rsrcLogicalSize;
    UInt64                          rsrcPhysicalSize;
[...]
}

in _Filemodule.c the spec looks to be 32 bit:

static PyObject *FSCatalogInfo_get_dataLogicalSize(FSCatalogInfoObject
*self, void *closure)
{
	return Py_BuildValue("l", self->ob_itself.dataLogicalSize);
}

I have, perhaps naively, just changed my local copy to use a BuildValue
parameter of "L" instead of "l" for each of these get and set methods
and this has survived my initial testing:

static PyObject *FSCatalogInfo_get_dataLogicalSize(FSCatalogInfoObject
*self, void *closure)
{
	return Py_BuildValue("L", self->ob_itself.dataLogicalSize);
}

But my questions are:

Has anyone else seen this?

Does this seem like the right fix?

There is another routine in _Filemodule.c: FSCatalogInfo_tp_init() that
also seems to hold information relevant to parameter size.  Should this
be changed as well?

If this is a bug, what's the best procedure to report this?
Sourceforge?  This mailing list?

I'm porting a MacOS9 application from C++ to python and I expect to be
seeing a lot of these python macintosh filesystem extensions in the
near future!

Thanks for any help

Don



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct  8 18:07:24 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 18:07:24 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:57:13 -0000, gordonb.u09l7 at burditt.org (Gordon
> Burditt) wrote or quoted :
>
>>HTML enables a heck of a lot of problems:  "web bugs" in email,
>>links to fake sites that appear as real ones in what shows up
>>on the screen, Javascript viruses, denial-of-service attacks
>>(pages that open two windows when you close one), etc.
>>
>>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>>
>>I liken it more to hating all viruses because some of them 
>>install keyloggers.
>
>  I take it then you avoid browsers or use Lynx?

It's not quite that bad. You run multiple browsers: your default
browser turns off all the crap that can run code on your machine. You
use a second browser that has most of that turned on, and bookmark the
sites that need those features that you now trust. Maybe your browser
lets you have multiple profiles, in which case you can use those
instead of multiple browsers. Unless your goat browser is IE (or
Mozilla on Unix), you should keep a copy of IE (Mozilla on Unix)
around, with an untouched configuration, for the sites that either
enforce their belief that they only work on IE, or are one of those
rare sats where correctly believe that. Finally, you configure your
mail and news readers to *not* decode MIME messages unless given an
explicit command to do so.

I understand some browsers now let you enable dangers features on a
site-by-site basis. I'll check those out one of these days.

FWIW, I like w3m as a default browser, because it has the ability to
launch external browsers on a page or link.

> No you FIX the problems rather than wear a hair shirt. Same for
> email. Why should rich expressions only be permitted to those with
> websites.

The technial problems have been solved for over a decade. NeXT shipped
systems that used text/richtext, which has none of the problems that
HTML has.  The problems are *social* - you've got to arrange for
people to use mail/news readers that understand a rich text format
that isn't a vector for viruses.

> Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.

That doesn't take HTML. I get - and send - pictures via email all the
time, with nary a tag of HTML in sight.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Fri Oct  7 23:48:07 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 05:48:07 +0200
Subject: PIL Image can't open png file with "I"?
References: <mailman.1721.1128715843.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434741b0$0$19239$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !


Perhaps...     ";" better than ","  :
    im=Image.open(r"C:\vodka3.png"); im.show()

Perhaps...  more simplist :
    im=Image.open(r"C:\vodka3.png").show()

Perhaps...  other thing ?


@-salutations

Michel Claveau





From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 23:14:40 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:14:40 -0700
Subject: destroy your self????
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2285.1129777502.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2285.1129777502.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129778080.444432.115690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well I guess what I'm trying to achive is the invalidate the instance
of the object.
I have been using None to denote an invalide or uninitialized instance
of an object.

There is a degenerate case in my code where a polygon has less than 3
points and
I want to class to flag this instance of the object as invalid.

so.. like super.self = None  :)



From benji at benjiyork.com  Fri Oct 14 11:59:25 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:59:25 -0400
Subject: Problems with properties
In-Reply-To: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <434FD5DD.6000302@benjiyork.com>

Michael Schneider wrote:
> The get property access is working, but the the set
> property is not working.

The classes need to be "new style" for properties to work right.  Just 
change "class Task:" to "class Task(object):".

Your "setNothing" method is unnecessary, if you don't proved a "setter" 
an exception will be raised automatically.  Also (if you're using Python 
2.4) you probably want to look at decorator syntax.

So you're class could look like this:

class Task(object):
     def __init__(self,command):
         self._command = command

     @property
     def command(self):
         return self._command
--
Benji York


From viridia at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 16:06:13 2005
From: viridia at gmail.com (Talin)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 13:06:13 -0700
Subject: Recursive generators and backtracking search
Message-ID: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've been using generators to implement backtracking search for a while
now. Unfortunately, my code is large and complex enough (doing
unification on math expressions) that its hard to post a simple
example. So I decided to look for a simpler problem that could be used
to demonstrate the technique that I am talking about.

I noticed that PEP 255 (Simple Generators) refers to an implementation
of the "8 Queens" problem in the lib/test directory. Looking at the
code, I see that while it does use generators, it doesn't use them
recursively.

As an alternative, I'd like to present the following implementation. If
you compare this one with the one in lib/test/test_generator.py you
will agree (I hope) that by using recursive generators to implement
backtracking, the resulting code is a little more straightforward and
intuitive:

# Example of using generators to implement backtracking search.
# The example below is an implementation of the classic "N queens"
# problem (place N queens on an N x N chessboard so that none are
# threatened by the others.)
#
# Board representation: Since no two queens can be one the same
# row, the board is represented as a tuple of N length, where
# each element is the column occupied by the queen on that row.

def queens( bsize ):

    # Function to test if a queen is threatened by any previously
    # placed queen.
    def threaten( qarray, newpos ):
        # Now check the diagonals
        dist = len( qarray )        # Distance between rows
        for q in qarray:
            if q == newpos: return True             # Same column
            if q + dist == newpos: return True      # diagonal
            if q - dist == newpos: return True      # diagonal
            dist -= 1
        return False

    def qsearch( qarray = () ):
        for q in range( 0, bsize ):        # Try each position
            if not threaten( qarray, q ):  # If not threatened
                pos = qarray + ( q, );     # Append to the pos array

                if len( pos ) >= bsize:    # Are we done?
                    yield pos              # Yield the answer
                else:            # recursively call new generator
                    for pos in qsearch( pos ):
                        yield pos

    print "Queens problem for", bsize, "x", bsize, "board."
    for ans in qsearch():
    `   # Print out the board
        print "+" + "---+" * bsize;
        for q in ans:
            print "|" + "   |" * q + " Q |" + "   |" * (bsize - q - 1)
            print "+" + "---+" * bsize;
        print

queens( 8 )

Now, you may be wondering what is my point? Well, first, I want to
encourage people to think about using Python as a language for complex
heuristic search problems. Traditionally, LISP and Prolog have been the
language of choices for "AI" type programming, however there is a clear
advantage to the readability and maintainability of Python, as well as
being much more integrated into modern computing environments (in terms
of available interpreters, IDEs, libraries, etc.)

Secondly, I want to lobby for additional support in the language and
standard libraries for handling such problems. There are a number of
fairly obvious language enhancements which would make the above example
even simpler - for examle, the idea of being able to return the output
of one generator directly from another instead of having to iterate
through all of the results and then re-yield them has already been
discussed in this forum.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 31 11:18:19 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:18:19 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.14.445842@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<4363fdd4$0$2107$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
	<dk4lau$4j0$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <43663b19.1454241668@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:41:02 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?= <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:

>David Rasmussen wrote:
><snip>
>> If you must know, the above one-liner actually counts the number of 
>> frames in an MPEG2 file. I want to know this number for a number of 
>> files for various reasons. I don't want it to take forever.
><snip>
>
>Don't you risk getting more "frames" than the file actually have? What 
>if the encoded data happens to have the magic byte values for something 
>else?
>
Good point, but perhaps the bit pattern the OP is looking for is guaranteed
(e.g. by some kind of HDLC-like bit or byte stuffing or escaping) not to occur
except as frame marker (which might make sense re the problem of re-synching
to frames in a glitched video stream).

The OP probably knows. I imagine this thread would have gone differently if the
title had been "How to count frames in an MPEG2 file?" and the OP had supplied
the info about what marks a frame and whether it is guaranteed not to occur
in the data ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 28 11:02:50 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:02:50 -0000
Subject: Suggestion for (re)try statement
References: <mailman.2660.1130443842.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11m4fcq8pifa641@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-27, Sori Schwimmer <sxn02 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think that would be useful to have an improved
> version of the "try" statement, as follows:
>
> try(retrys=0,timeout=0):
>   # things to try
> except:
>   # what to do if failed
>
> and having the following semantic:
>
> for i in range(retrys):
>   try:
>     # things to try
>   except:
>     if i < retrys:
>       i += 1
>       sleep(timeout)
>     else:
>       # what to do if failed
>   else:
>     break

The "i += 1" line is almost certainly wrong.

> Of course, "break" may be the last statement in the
> "try" branch, and "try"'s "else" may be ommited
> completely.

And that's pretty much exactly how I usually write it:

for i in range(retries):
   try:
       whatever
       break
   except retryableExceptionList:
       sleep(delay)

> Can't think of a syntax to keep it look like a statement
> rather than a function.
>
> Opinions?

I don't see what's wrong with the for loop construct.
You can add an else: clause to the for loop to detect the case
where you ran out of retries:

for i in range(retries):
   try:
       whatever
       break
   except retryableExceptionList:
       sleep(delay)
else:
   whatelse

> Is it worth for a PEP?

I don't think you can come up with a syntax that is really that
much better than the for loop, but give it a go if you like.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My BIOLOGICAL ALARM
                                  at               CLOCK just went off... It
                               visi.com            has noiseless DOZE FUNCTION
                                                   and full kitchen!!


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 22:35:27 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:35:27 +1000
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.02.35.26.638321@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:46:39 -0400, Ivan Shevanski wrote:

> Alright heres another noob question for everyone.  Alright, say I have a 
> menu like this.
> 
> print "1. . .Start"
> print "2. . .End"
> choice1 = raw_input("> ")
> 
> and then I had this to determine what option.

Firstly, you need to decide on what you want to accept. If you really do
want to (I quote from later in your post) 

> For instance I could type in Stop and would get the first option since
> it had an "s" in it?

then you can, but that would be a BAD idea!!! 

py> run_dangerous_code()
WARNING! This will erase all your data if you continue!
Are you sure you want to start? Yes/Start/Begin
> Stop
Starting now... data erased.

Oh yeah, your users will love you for that.

I could handle it like this:

def yesno(s):
    """Returns a three-valued flag based on string s.
    The flag is 1 for "go ahead", 0 for "don't go" 
    and -1 for any other unrecognised response.
    Recognises lots of different synonyms for yes and no.
    """
    s = s.strip().lower()  # case and whitespace doesn't matter
    if s in ('1', 'start', 's', 'begin', 'ok', 'okay', 'yes'):
        return 1
    elif s in ('2', 'end', 'e', 'cancel', 'c', 'stop', 'no'):
        return 0
    else:
        return -1


def query():
    print "Start process: 1 start"
    print "End process: 2 end"
    raw_choice = raw_input("> ")
    choice = yesno(raw_choice)
    if choice == -1:
        print "I'm sorry, I don't understand your response."
        return query()
    else:
        return choice


But that's probably confusing. Why do you need to offer so many ways of
answering the question? Generally, the best way of doing this sort of
thing is:

- give only one way of saying "go ahead", which is usually "yes".
- give only one way of saying "don't go ahead", which is usually "no".
- if the thing you are doing is not dangerous, allow a simple return to
do the same as the default.
- if, and only if, the two choices are unambiguous, allow the first
letter on its own (e.g. "y" or "n") to mean the same as the entire word.

Using this simpler method:

def yesno(s):
    s = s.strip().lower()
    if s in ('yes', 'y'):
        return 1
    elif s in ('no', 'n'):
        return 0
    else:
        return -1

def query:
    print "Start process? (y/n)"
    choice = yesno(raw_choice("> "))
    if choice == -1:
        print "Please type Yes or No."
        return query()
    else:
        return choice


Hope this is helpful.


-- 
Steven.



From anjuman2 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 01:12:50 2005
From: anjuman2 at gmail.com (Sam  Merca)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 23:12:50 -0700
Subject: SNMP
In-Reply-To: <1130515702.436348.190240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130515702.436348.190240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130652770.571194.245940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


py wrote:
> >From what I have seen Python does not come with an snmp module built
> in, can anyone suggest some other SNMP module (preferably one you have
> used/experienced)..I have googled and seen yapsnmp and pysnmp (which
> seem to be the two most active SNMP modules).
>
> Thanks

I've used pysnmp on Windows to successfully monitor and set parameters
in half a dozen different 802.11a/b/g access points from different
vendors, so I guess, it gets my nod. The documentation is adequate but
no spoon-feeding here! You'll have to try and see if it serves your
needs.

-A



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 18:53:09 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:53:09 -0500
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <1128812148_124207@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


> In other words, what is the difference between a "scripting language" 
> and a "programming language".
> 

Good point.


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 27 13:45:31 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:45:31 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndm12uv.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <43610f31.1111721130@news.oz.net>

On 27 Oct 2005 08:12:15 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
[...]
>
>The evidence suggests that cmp is not used in sorting. If you have a
>list of sets, sort will happily try to sort it, while calling cmp
>with a set as an argument throws an exception.
>
A data point re evidence:

 >>> class C:
 ...     def __getattr__(self, attr): print attr; raise AttributeError
 ...

 >>> sorted((C(),C()))
 __lt__
 __gt__
 __gt__
 __lt__
 __coerce__
 __coerce__
 __cmp__
 __cmp__
 [__repr__
 <__main__.C instance at 0x02EF388C>, __repr__
 <__main__.C instance at 0x02EF38CC>]

I think it will be slightly different if you define those methods
in a new-style class -- oh, heck, why not do it:

 >>> class D(object):
 ...    def __lt__(*ignore): print '__lt__'; return NotImplemented
 ...    def __gt__(*ignore): print '__gt__'; return NotImplemented
 ...    def __coerce__(*ignore): print '__coerce__'; return NotImplemented
 ...    def __cmp__(*ignore): print '__cmp__'; return NotImplemented
 ...
 >>> sorted((D(),D()))
 __lt__
 __gt__
 __cmp__
 __cmp__

(I haven't followed the thread much, so please excuse if irrelevant ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct  9 18:11:02 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:11:02 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.18.06.50.384030@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<3qssr4Fgjc2qU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<pan.2005.10.09.18.06.50.384030@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <3qtirmFgnatvU1@uni-berlin.de>

> 
> [penny drops] Now we're getting somewhere... a closure is something
> _added_ to a function. So we should talk about functions-without-closures
> and functions-with-closures.

Yes.

> 
> 
>>Speaking in 
>>terms of "is a" could be seen as some inheritance relation. 
> 
> 
> [penny rises again] Dammit, just when I thought I got it. So a closure is
> like a subclass of function? Functions are a higher level classification,
> like mammals. There are mammals that are primates (functions that _are_
> closures) and mammals that aren't (functions that _aren't_ closures).
> 

Hrmpf. No, I wanted to say the exact opposite. My bad - just ignore that 
paragraph of mine in the earlier post, ok?


> Right! So closures are something which functions _have_ -- which is why
> Python functions have an attribute called func_closure, which is empty in
> functions without closures, and contain a tuple of cells in those with
> them.

Yes.

> 
> Now somebody is going to tell me this is an implementation detail and it
> isn't true in the general language independent case...

Paul Rubin did so, and I guess it is, although I don't know for sure.

> Now you're trying to trick me... they are both *instances* of Foo, not
> Foo. Foo is a class, and f and g are not classes, let alone the same class.

As two functions are instances of the "class of functions". I just 
wanted to point out that two instances of one class can have differnet 
state. The analogy isn't perfect, as this special state "closure" isn't 
available easily for you to alter, and gets created behind the scenes. 
But as each function with a closure is created on the fly - same code, 
different closure data - it sort of fitted, I hoped.

> 
> 
>>- but one has a different attribute set. And if Foo
>>had some semantics that did something different based on bar, would you
>>also say they're supposed have two different classes? You could in fact
>>do that - create one class for each incarnation of possible  state. But
>>then the concept of classes and objects gets somewhat blurred, as each
>>instance would have its own class. The same is true for functions.
> 
> 
> Ah, but in languages like Pascal that can take functions as arguments, but
> can't return functions as output, *all* functions have to be created
> separately. To take your analogy and run with it, Pascal would be like a
> language that didn't allow f and g to have different attributes unless
> they belonged to different classes.
> 
> Python is not like that, which is why you can write a function to return
> functions (a factory function?). If the output function needs access to
> the namespace of the factory function, Python adds a closure to that
> output function, giving it access to the objects in that namespace.

Hm, no. You can return functions in other languages, e.g. C. Don't know 
pascal good enough. But they will always be the same without any state 
associated to them, whereas in python you have some state. The same way 
as bound methods know about their first arguments, functions with 
closures know about - well, their closure :)

A closure is really only an environment, adding values to locals() - 
implemented as cells in python - that adds to the local variables when 
the function is executed, and is dynamically created when a function 
with a closure is defined. This works because of the interpreted nature 
of python.


Regards,

Diez


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 17 01:42:51 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:42:51 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ftv4l11dg1adoe4ar4lhjno7bsqdeloe1u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <divdks$vmk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:ftv4l11dg1adoe4ar4lhjno7bsqdeloe1u at 4ax.com...

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:48:18 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car
>>without an engine.

> Given that that the OS and the hardware come from completely different
> companies, I think that a specious analogy.

    With many cars, the engine is made by a different manufacturer from the 
body. The point is, they're sold as a unit because a car won't run without 
an engine and most people in the market want a car with an engine.

    DS




From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:29:16 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:29:16 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <ftv4l11dg1adoe4ar4lhjno7bsqdeloe1u@4ax.com>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:48:18 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car 
>without an engine.

Given that that the OS and the hardware come from completely different
companies, I think that a specious analogy. 
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From wookie at aces.localdomain  Tue Oct 25 16:33:33 2005
From: wookie at aces.localdomain (Harold Stevens)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:33:33 -0000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<435E8C5A.5030105@sun.removeme.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlt5ks.78h.wyrd@aces.localdomain>

In <435E8C5A.5030105 at sun.removeme.com> Brian Utterback:

[Snip...]

> that the laws have been in place since the late 1800's, the consent
> decree explicitly and in no uncertain terms informed them of their
> violations, and they continued to violate the law even afterward.

It's M$ corporate DNA; they literally couldn't change and survive:

   Howard University law professor Andrew Gavil said he wonders whether
   Microsoft's early demands -- which would have compelled manufacturers
   to distribute to consumers only Microsoft's Windows Media Player
   software -- were a genuine mistake or a signal the company intends to
   revert to its hardball tactics.

   "It's somewhat amazing it even happened," said Gavil, who has closely
   followed the Microsoft case. "It's troubling that anyone inside
   Microsoft was still thinking this was a legitimate business strategy."

Well, duh. All they got was a useless wrist-slap from the dickless US DOJ
in 2002, so this is not at all surprising--just bidness as usual for M$.

More:

     http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051020/microsoft_antitrust.html?.v=6

And any M$ apologists are just as much liars and thieves as M$ itself.

-- 
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.


From erniedude at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 16:30:31 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 13:30:31 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1130272231.210978.316140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

So i generated the .exe file "myFile.exe"

This is a Windows - text based application.  Right now, when I run:

import subprocess
subprocess.call("myFile")

the application starts in its own console window.  Is there a way for
it to run inside the python interface?

Thanks,



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 18:07:49 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:07:49 -0400
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>

Any idea why I can't say:

if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'

all in one line like that?

It's just a random question I ran across a few days ago.

--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
-------------- next part --------------
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From manatlan at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 07:25:29 2005
From: manatlan at gmail.com (manatlan at gmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 04:25:29 -0700
Subject: /usr/bin/env python, force a version
Message-ID: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I've got a trouble, and i think that anybody there can help me

I've got a python script which i distribute in somes packages for *nix.
This script is full of python and need python 2.4 ! And i'd like to
display a message when the user doesn't have a python2.4 version.

if i put, at the top of the script (which can be done with /usr/bin env
too):

#/usr/bin/python2.4
it will be good, but py2.3 users can't run the script, and the message
comes from the system ;-( ... it can't be a message from my script ;-(

#/usr/bin/python2.3
it will not be good, because my scrill will not work at all ;-)

#/usr/bin/python
it will select the defined python version of the platform ... And here
is the problem. On debian/sid, users have python2.3 (default), et py2.4
: So the script will start with 2.3, and my message will be displayed.
But it could work because there is a py2.4 on the machine ;-(.

I'd like to make my script (or a starter script)
which will be able to detect all python versions of the machine. And
run my script with the good one ; py2.4, or display a message to the
user to say her it must install py2.4 ...

I hope you understand my needs. Is there a python/bash mechanism to
override the default python version of the system ...  and run the
script with any version of python (but the most recent) ?
or can you explain me how to do that ? the simplest way ?



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Sat Oct  8 16:22:56 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:22:56 -0700
Subject: Weighted "random" selection from list of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1766.1128790108.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1766.1128790108.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43482a54@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jesse Noller wrote:
<paraphrased>
> Once main_list is populated, I want to build a sequence from items
> within the lists, "randomly" with a defined percentage of the sequence
> coming for the various lists. For example:
> 60% from list 1 (main_list[0]), 30% from list 2 (main_list[1]), 10% from list 3 (main_list[2])


import bisect, random
main_list = [['a', 'b', 'c'],
              ['dog', 'cat', 'panda'],
              ['blue', 'red', 'green']]
weights = [60, 30, 10]

cumulative = []
total = 0
for index, value in enumerate(weights):
     total += value
     cumulative.append(total)

for i in range(20):
     score = random.random() * total
     index = bisect.bisect(cumulative, score)
     print random.choice(main_list[index]),


-- 
-Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 17:40:03 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:40:03 -0000
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <mailman.1470.1128460780.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xmzlpj7nr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <11k5tljq83pd8e0@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> Mohammed Smadi <smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> writes:
>> #transmission socket
>> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,  socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
>> s.bind(("",hp_port)) # do some error checking
>> ...
>> any suggestions for alternative implementation?
>
> In this particular instance, don't bind the transmission socket.  I'm
> also not sure why you set SO_REUSEADDR.  I've done some socket
> programming but am no expert.

You set SO_REUSEADDR when you need to bind to a specific port,
and you want to be able to re-use that port address for a new
connection without waiting for the time specified in the TCP
RFC after the old connection was closed.

In the OP's case, there is no need to bind to a specific port,
so just getting rid of the bind() and setsockopt() calls is the
obvious answer.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If I had a Q-TIP, I
                                  at               could prevent th' collapse
                               visi.com            of NEGOTIATIONS!!


From haraldarminmassa at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 14:34:35 2005
From: haraldarminmassa at gmail.com (Harald Armin  Massa)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 11:34:35 -0700
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128969275.804305.193460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik,

but still some very valuable people write:

"""
What is Python?

Python is an interpreted, interactive, object-oriented programming
language. It is often compared to Tcl, Perl, Scheme or Java.
"""
taken from
http://www.python.org/doc/Summary.html

maybe someone could update that???

Harald



From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct  2 16:52:21 2005
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:52:21 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
Message-ID: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>

I am contemplating getting into Python, which is used by engineers I
admire - google and Bram Cohen, but was horrified to read

"no variable or argument declarations are necessary."

Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
mysteriously fail to work with no error message.

If you don't declare variables, you can inadvertently re-use an
variable used in an enclosing context when you don't intend to, or
inadvertently reference a new variable (a typo) when you intended to
reference an existing variable.

What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug?


--
http://www.jim.com


From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Tue Oct 11 11:22:04 2005
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:22:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: subprocess and non-blocking IO (again)
References: <434a80e4_2@news3.prserv.net>
Message-ID: <diglas$ilp$1@news.island.liu.se>

Marc Carter <mcarter at uk.ibm.com> writes:

> The problem with the above is that the subprocess buffers all its output 
> when used like this and, hence, this automation is not informing me of 
> much :)

You may want to take a look at my asyncproc module.  With it, you
can start subprocesses and let them run in the background without
blocking either the subprocess or your own process, while still
collecting their output.

You can download it from

    http://www.lysator.liu.se/~bellman/download/asyncproc.py

I suspect that it doesn't work under MS Windows, but I don't use
that OS, and thus can't test it.


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have    !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 only proved it correct, not tried it."      !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From nochiel at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 13:23:28 2005
From: nochiel at gmail.com (yoda)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 10:23:28 -0700
Subject: py.log using decorators for DRY
Message-ID: <1130606608.107621.138650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I'm using py.log for logging and I find that I end up having the
following pattern emerge within my code (influenced by
http://agiletesting.blogspot.com/2005/06/keyword-based-logging-with-py-library.html):


def foo(**kwargs):
    log.foo(kwargs)
    #body form

This led me to believe that I could simplify that pattern with the
following idiom :


def logit (fn):
    '''
    decorator to enable logging of all tagged methods
    '''
        def decorator (**kwargs):
        # call a method named fn.func_name on log with kwargs
        #should be something like: log.func_name (kwargs)

    return decorator


I can then do add @logit to all my existing methods via a script
(there's a truck load of methods to tag):


@logit
def oldfoo () : pass


My question is in regards to the body form in the decorator.  How do I
call that method on the log object at runtime?

(ps.  I hope my question is clear $)



From da_hmea98 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 14 01:07:38 2005
From: da_hmea98 at hotmail.com (da_hmea98 at hotmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 22:07:38 -0700
Subject: String code required please
References: <1129263625.991136.236320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129266458.136019.142460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

dapgy at yahoo.com wrote:
> Does someone have the Python code to pull just the filename and
> extension from the end of an absolute path please.
>
> Thanks in advance ...

# Here you go...
import os.path

# Example path
p1 = "C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\DirectX\\Dinput\\mse.ini"

# This will return: 'mse.ini'
os.path.basename(p1)

"""
You can read more about manipulating file paths by reading the Python
documentation under "6.2 os.path -- Common pathname manipulations".

DA
"""



From noway at sorry.com  Mon Oct 31 19:24:37 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:24:37 GMT
Subject: Reuse base-class implementation of classmethod?
Message-ID: <9By9f.17396$65.522385@twister1.libero.it>

Hello,

what's the magic needed to reuse the base-class implementation of a
classmethod?

class A(object):
   @classmethod
   def foo(cls, a,b):
       # do something
       pass

class B(A):
    @classmethod
    def foo(cls, a, b):
         A.foo(cls, a, b)   # WRONG!

I need to call the base-class classmethod to reuse its implementation, but I'd
like to pass the derived class as first argument.
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From rupole at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 19:21:34 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:21:34 -0400
Subject: Python script to install network printers
References: <mailman.1446.1128439429.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128468336_42527@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

You can use win32print.AddPrinterConnection(r'\\server\sharedprinter').
However, if the printer driver has to be copied to the client machine and
installed, that's probably where most of the time is spent.
   hth
          Roger

"Matt Chan" <engineuity at gmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1446.1128439429.509.python-list at python.org...
Hi, I am trying to create a python script to install a set of network
printers. I have had success using an os.popen statement, using
rundll32 and printui.dll. This takes way too long. Can someone point
me in a quicker direction?

thanks,
Matt 




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Fri Oct 21 03:15:19 2005
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:15:19 +0200
Subject: sort problem
In-Reply-To: <4357de42$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <4357c22d$0$8481$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
	<1129825485.883210.297890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4357c9a4$0$8498$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
	<4357de42$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <43589576$0$8488$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>

Kent Johnson wrote:
> or learn about decorate-sort-undecorate:
> 
> lst = [ ...whatever ] lst = [ x[3], i, x for i, x in enumerate(lst) ]
> 
I think that here the code must be changed (for the future):
lst = [ (x[3], i, x) for i, x in enumerate(lst) ]

> lst.sort() lst = [ x for _, _, x in lst ]


Wow, this work with my py 2.3!

> 
> Kent
> 

Thanks,
Michele


From jeffrey.schwab at rcn.com  Sun Oct  2 11:39:22 2005
From: jeffrey.schwab at rcn.com (Jeff Schwab)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:39:22 -0400
Subject: Distributing programs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QOudnRHYHr2zYqLeRVn-qQ@rcn.net>

Jason wrote:
> A non-python programming friend of mine has said that any programs made 
> with Python must be distributed with, or an alternative link, to the 
> source of the program.
> 
> Is this true?

Sorta, but not really.  Typically, you might distribute the source (.py) 
  files, but if you don't want to do that, you can distribute the 
compiled .pyc files instead.  Python creates these files automatically 
when your modules are imported.


From http  Mon Oct 10 18:13:14 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 15:13:14 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xk6glhvgl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
> 3. Both Client and Server creates a hash string from
> <password+random_alphanumeric_string>
> 4. Client sends the hash string to the server
> 5. Server compares his hash result with the hash string received from
> de client.
> 
> I think it is a very good solution, Isn't it?

No. It's vulnerable to dictionary search.  Use SRP if you can.


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Oct 12 22:21:52 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 02:21:52 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
	<lnu0fmw762.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
Message-ID: <Xns96EDD9546E5DDcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Keith Thompson <kst-u at mib.org> wrote:

> There are several newsgroups that deal with e-mail abuse.  This
> discussion isn't being posted to any of them.  Please stop.

This just adds to the noise, and isn't going to work. Just kill the entire 
thread.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 16:09:16 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:09:16 +0200
Subject: Extention Module/ list of chars-> string
References: <1129749035.667046.98630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj695e$vm3$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Tuvas" wrote:

> I am currently writing an extention module that needs to recieve a list
> of characters that might vary in size from 0 to 8. This is written as a
> list of characters rather than a string because it's easier to
> manipulate. However, when I pass this list of characters into the
> extention module, it keeps giving errors. Is there a way to do one of
> the following?
>
> A. Change a list of chars to a single string or

that's easier to do at the python side of things (see martin's reply), but
if you'd rather do

> B. Read a list of chars in an extention module

you might find the code on this page somewhat useful:

    http://effbot.org/zone/python-capi-sequences.htm

(use PyString_Check, PyString_Size and PyString_AsString to process
the sequence items. see the C API reference for details)

</F>





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 02:30:21 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:30:21 +0200
Subject: non descriptive error
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>	<mailman.1807.1128900330.509.python-list@python.org><rTh2f.12332$U51.276@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4349AE08.1000306@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <did1pv$52c$1@sea.gmane.org>

Timothy Smith wrote:

> it is definately a bug in 2.3 when using the decimal module. i can
> reproduce it.
>
> from decimal import Decimal
> a = Decimal('0'
>
> and when you attempt to run it you will get "error"

$ python script.py
  File "script.py", line 3

                   ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

> of course i do understand that decimal wasn't part of 2.3, but atleast
> now when if anyone gets that terse message they know where to start
> looking :)

on your machine ?

</F>





From projecktzero at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  7 09:07:23 2005
From: projecktzero at yahoo.com (projecktzero)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:07:23 -0700
Subject: Book "Python and Tkinter Programming"
In-Reply-To: <1128620086.240847.235490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128620086.240847.235490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128690443.478697.33250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


striker wrote:
> Does anyone who has this book willing to sell it.  Please e-mail me the
> condition and any other details if you are interested.
> Thanks,
> Kevin

half.com has a couple of people selling it. One for $35.24 and another
for $129.97.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 03:58:42 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:58:42 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <u321m1hsatp6cnr7ijilhotsbuoh4hko6h@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:49:27 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    I guess I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that 
>Microsoft demanded you pay them per machine you sold under the table in the 
>absence of a written contract that said that? Or are you simply saying that 
>they changed the terms of your agreement when it came up for renewal?

This was all under the table.  
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 10 04:09:13 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 08:09:13 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qmrd2Ffocu8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkcko1.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1128686332.212150.275360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkctk3.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1128694004.950502.123170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkk8d9.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-07, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at web.de>:
>
> Well, that exactly is the point where we make the transition from "this
> is how things work" to pure speculation.

Everything starts with pure speculation. I had no intention of
introducing the big type system here. I just think people who
oppose type systems, limit themselves too much to how things
currently work and from there oppose anything that resembles
a type system instead of thinking of what they would like
a type system to do even if it is not implemtable now.

> Can't say that there won't be
> a solution someday - but certainly it requires much more, and from
> above nobody can say that this would solve _any_ problem.
>
> What you propose above is what JAVA does - plus more dynamicity.

So it isn't exactly JAVA afterall.

> Well,
> given that even the  "non-dynamic, everything has to be annotated" JAVA
> fails to deal with ANY (called Object there),

So please explain how my system fails with the ANY.

> I can't see how a more
> dynamic environment will do _better_ in that respect.

You first argued that a type system had to limit the coder and you
gave the example of the homegeneous list. I suggested an ANY type
and asked how a homegeneous list of ANY's would limit the coder.
Your respons was that this was like a JAVA Object or C void* hack,
that can be used to circumvent the type system and cause all kinds
of problems, presumebly python was not vulnerable to.

So I would either like you to explain how my idea can be used to
circumvent the type system and cause problems, which don't
concern python or explain how this system will limit the coder
with respect what can be done in python.


> So unless you lay
> out some more detailed ideas how that works, this surely won't do much
> if any better than JAVA does today - and JAVA sucks _precisely_ because
> of the half-static-half-dynamic nature. It gives you both troubles -
> runtime errors like in python, together with compile-time limitations.

I have no need to convince you. It was you who made this claim how
a type system had to limit the coder. That you can't see how it
could be done is not an argument. Surely if a typesystem *must* limit
the user or else cause all kinds of problems as more general argument
can be given that doesn't depend on the specific implementation.

> Let's face it: you don't know much about type-systems. I do know a bit
> more - but don't claim to possess the holy grail. And I don't say that
> more powerful analyzing isn't possible. However, all you do so far is
> fantasizing and "fail to see why not". Well, that failure might be
> because of limited sight on your side - not necessarily on our, which
> you constantly claim.

Well, I could accept that if you would have explained what the problem
would be with my system instead of just saying you couldn't see how
it would be more usefull than JAVA Objects.

> Visions are a nice thing - but actually, in the scientific domain not
> so much a vision, but proofs are what is needed.

Well you made the claim that a type system had to limit the coder.
Now prove your claim. Untill this is done I see no problem thinking
about type systems that don't limit the coder.

> And if you consider it
> hostile that nobody buys your ideas because so far they aren't more
> than marketing/whishful thinking, I'm sorry that I can't help you.

I don't consider it hostile that nobody buys my ideas. I considered
the environment here hostile to type systems long before I brought
my two cents to the discussions about this subject here.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 12:07:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:07:03 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86y84rxryr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<2R75f.2005$dO2.1121@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <86mzl6yfko.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86y84rxryr.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>>> news:86fyqzzskt.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support 
>>>>> and
>>>>> what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both 
>>>>> irrelevant.
>>>> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser.
>>> Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), that's
>>> not a feasible goal.
>> I guess you'd say developing any software isn't a feasible goal,
>> because it'll never be bug-free, will never have bug-free compilers to
>> compile it, bug-free linkers to link it, bug-free GUI/db/etc libraries
>> to link with it, bug-free servers to communicate with, and bug-free
>> operating systems to run it on. Fortunately, most developers aren't
>> quite that anal, and realize that you can get useful work done in a
>> less-than-perfect environment.
> I'm not speaking theroetically. My company (though not me personally) 
> creates browser-based UIs, and one of the biggest expenses has been dealing 
> with IE rendering bugs   Given the market share of IE, the fact that 
> something should work, and even does work in Firefox, Opera, etc, is 
> irrelevant.  If it breaks IE, we can't use it.

Been there, done that, threw out the T-shirt as to ugly to wear.

Yes, you have to work around bugs in the popular browsers. That hasn't
changed since the first published specs showed up. That doesn't mean
you throw out the standards and only support a trivial set of
browsers. That means you restrict yourself to a subset of the
standard, or - better - detect the deficiency and fail soft, the same
as you would do when you get a visit from someone who's disabled some
feature you want to use. In extreme cases, you wind up implementing
something twice: once for busted-but-popular browsers, and once for
people using browsers written by developers who read specifications.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From python at rcn.com  Tue Oct 11 07:03:36 2005
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 04:03:36 -0700
Subject: Idle bytecode query on apparently unreachable returns
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510100013390.9135@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1129028616.859306.283720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

[Tom Anderson]:
> What puzzles me, though, are bytecodes 17, 39 and 42 - surely these aren't
> reachable? Does the compiler just throw in a default 'return None'
> epilogue, with routes there from every code path, even when it's not
> needed? If so, why?

Since unreachable code is never executed, there is no performance
payoff for optimizing it away.  It is not hard to write a dead-code
elimination routine, but why bother?  It would save a few bytes, slow
down compilation time, save nothing at runtime, and make the compiler
more complex/fragile.

FWIW, the peephole optimizer in Python/compile.c is mature -- the low
hanging fruit has already been harvested, leaving the field of
remaining optimizations somewhat barren.


Raymond



From http  Fri Oct  7 04:12:12 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 01:12:12 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> In other words, you want Python to be strongly-typed, but sometimes
> you want to allow a reference to be to any object whatsoever. In which
> case you can't possibly do any sensible type-checking on it, so this
> new Python+ or whatever you want to call it will suffer from the same
> shortcomings that C++ and java do, which is to say type checking can't
> possibly do anything useful when the acceptable type of a reference is
> specified as ANY.

Let's see if I understand what you're saying:

    C and Java: you get useful type checking except when you declare
    a reference as type ANY.  This is a shortcoming compared to:

    Python: where you get no useful type checking at all.

That is not very convincing logic.


From rune.strand at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 02:31:07 2005
From: rune.strand at gmail.com (Rune Strand)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 23:31:07 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
Message-ID: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Is it an idea to include a new __filename__ predefined attribute to
2.5, so that __file__ contains the entire path to the module, and
__filename__ only the name of the module?

For instance it's useful to include a not-static reference to the
filename in a scripts usage() section and it's cumbersome to extract
the filename or to do module imports just to parse it.



From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Tue Oct 11 01:43:14 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:43:14 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<A_CdnfnrU4zBT9feRVn-jw@telcove.net>
Message-ID: <slrndkmk7i.p68.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

In article <A_CdnfnrU4zBT9feRVn-jw at telcove.net>, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
> 
> All in all, it would seem that the reliability of the Python run time is the
> least of your worries.  The best multi-tasking operating systems do a good
> job of segragating different processes BUT what multitasking operating
> system meets the standard you request in that last paragraph?

Well, let's put it this way. I have seen many computers running
Linux with a high load of this and that (web services, etc.) with
uptimes of years. I have not seen any recent Linux crash without
faulty hardware or drivers.

If using Python does not add significantly to the level of 
irreliability, then I can use it. If it adds, then I cannot
use it.

> type of rugged use you are demanding.  I would google "embedded systems".
> If you want to use Python/Linux, I might suggest you search "Embedded
> Linux".

I am an embedded system designer by my profession :) Both hardware
and software for industrial instruments. Computers are just a
side effect of nicer things.

But here I am looking into the possibility of making something 
with embedded PC hardware (industrial PC/104 cards). The name of 
the game is "as good as possible with the given amount of money". 
In that respect this is not flying or shooting. If something goes
wrong, someone loses a bunch of dollars, not their life.

I think that in this game Python might be handy when it comes to
maintainability and legibility (vs. C). But choosing a tool which
is known to be bad for the task is not a good idea.

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Thu Oct 13 10:21:24 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:21:24 +0200
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
	<1h4a5l4.13vx8k7etyxy1N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510130041440.19197@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1h4dmad.u2vd2b1jfy8N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> >   ...
> >> Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would be a
> >
> > If you mean mark-and-sweep, with generational twists,
> 
> Yes, more or less.
> 
> > that's what gc uses for cyclic garbage.
> 
> Do you mean what python uses for cyclic garbage? If so, i hadn't realised

Yes, gc (a standard library module) gives you access to the mechanism
(to some reasonable extent).

> that. There are algorithms for extending refcounting to cyclic structures
> (i forget the details, but you sort of go round and experimentally 
> decrement an object's count and see it ends up with a negative count or
> something), so i assumed python used one of those. Mind you, those are
> probably more complex than mark-and-sweep!

Not sure about that, when you consider the "generational twists", but
maybe.


> >> lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be faster,
> >> more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.
> >
> > ???  It adds no complexity (it's already there), it's slower,
> 
> Ah. That would be why all those java, .net, LISP, smalltalk and assorted
> other VMs out there, with decades of development, hojillions of dollars
> and the serried ranks of some of the greatest figures in computer science
> behind them all use reference counting rather than garbage collection,
> then.
> 
> No, wait ...

Not everybody agrees that "practicality beats purity", which is one of
Python's principles.  A strategy based on PURE reference counting just
cannot deal with cyclic garbage -- you'd also need the kind of kludges
you refer to above, or a twin-barreled system like Python's.  A strategy
based on PURE mark-and-sweep *CAN* be complete and correct... at the
cost of horrid delays, of course, but what's such a practical
consideration to a real purist?-)

In practice, more has probably been written about garbage collection
implementations than about almost every issue in CS (apart from sorting
and searching;-).  Good techniques need to be "incremental" -- the need
to "stop the world" for unbounded amounts of time (particularly in a
paged virtual memory world...), typical of pure m&s (even with
generational twists), is simply unacceptable in all but the most "batch"
type of computations, which occupy a steadily narrowing niche.
Reference counting is intrinsically "reasonably incremental"; the
worst-case of very long singly-linked lists (such that a dec-to-0 at the
head causes a cascade of N dec-to-0's all along) is as rare in Python as
it is frequent in LISP (and other languages that go crazy with such
lists -- Haskell, which defines *strings* as single linked lists of
characters, being a particularly egregious example) [[admittedly, the
techniques for amortizing the cost of such worst-cases are well known in
any case, though CPython has not implemented them]].

In any case, if you like Python (which is a LANGUAGE, after all) and
don't like one implementation of it, why not use a different
implementation, which uses a different virtual machine?  Jython, for the
JVM, and IronPython, for MSCLR (presumably what you call ".net"), are
quite usable; project pypy is producing others (an implementation based
on Common LISP was one of the first practical results, over a year ago);
not to count Parrot, and other projects yet...


> > it is, if anything, LESS reliable than reference counting (which is way
> > simpler!),
> 
> Reliability is a red herring - in the absence of ill-behaved native 
> extensions, and with correct implementations, both refcounting and GC are
> perfectly reliable. And you can rely on the implementation being correct,
> since any incorrectness will be detected very quickly!

Not necessarily: tiny memory leaks in supposedly "stable" versions of
the JVM, for example, which get magnified in servers operating for
extremely long times and on very large scales, keep turning up.  So, you
can't count on subtle and complicated implementations of garbage
collection algorithms being correct, any more than you can count on that
for (for example) subtle and complicated optimizations -- corner cases
can be hidden everywhere.

There are two ways to try to make a software system reliable: make it so
simple that it obviously has no bugs, or make it so complicated that it
has no obvious bugs.  RC is definitely tilted towards the first of the
two options (and so would be mark-and-sweep in the pure form, the one
where you may need to stop everything for a LONG time once in a while),
while more sophisticated GC schemes get more and more complicated.

BTW, RC _IS_ a form of GC, just like, say, MS is.


> > and (if generalized to deal with ALL garbage) it might make it almost
> > impossible to write some kinds of extensions (ones which need to 
> > interface existing C libraries that don't cooperate with whatever GC
> > collection you choose).
> 
> Lucky those existing C libraries were written to use python's refcounting!
> 
> Oh, you have to write a wrapper round the library to interface with the
> automatic memory management? Well, as it happens, the stuff you need to do
> is more or less identical for refcounting and GC - the extension has to
> tell the VM which of the VM's objects it holds references to, so that the
> VM knows that they aren't garbage.

Ah, but there is an obvious difference, when we're comparing reference
counting with mark and sweep in similarly simple incarnations: reference
counting has no "sweep" phase!  M&S relies on any memory area not
otherwise accounted for being collectable during the "sweep" part, while
RC will intrinsically and happily leave alone any memory area it does
not know about.  Adding sophistication to M&S often makes things even
more ticklish, if there are "random" pieces of memory which must be
hands-off -- the existing C library you're interfacing may give you no
idea, on an API-accessible level, where such internal "random" pieces
might be at any time.  E.g., said existing libraries might be returning
to you "opaque handles" -- say you know they're pointers (already you're
having to breach the encapsulation and abstraction of the library you're
interfacing...), but pointers to WHAT?  To structures which may
internally hold other pointers yet -- and what do THOSE point to...?

By ``handwaving'' about "the VM's objects" you imply a distinction
between such "objects" and other generic "areas of memory" that may not
be easy to maintain.  In RC, no problem: the reference-counting
operations intrinsically discriminate (you don't addref or decref to
anything but such an "object").  In MS, the problem is definitely there;
your VM's allocator needs to be able to control the "sweep", which may
require quite a lot of extra overhead if it can't just assume it "owns"
all of the memory.


> > Are we talking about the same thing?!
> 
> Doesn't look like it, does it?

Apparently not.  Most of my "production-level" implementations of
garbage collection schemes hark back to the late '70s (as part of my
thesis) and early '80s (working at Texas Instruments to architect a
general purpose CPU with some kind of GC support in hardware); after
leaving the field, when I got back to it, years later, I essentially
found out that the universality of paged virtual memory had changed
every single parameter in the game.  I did some work on
pointer-swizzling "incremental sort-of-compacting" collectors, and
conservative M&S a la Boehm, but by that time I was more interested in
real-world applications and none of those efforts ever yielded anything
practical and production-quality -- so, I either used existing libraries
and VMs (and more often than not cursed at them -- and, generally, the
FFIs whose gyrations I had to go through to work with them), or, when I
was implementing GC in my applications, relied on simple and solid
techniques such as variants on reference-counting, arenas, etc etc.

The crusher was a prototype application based on Microsoft's CLR (or
".net", as you call it) which needed to use MSCLR's ``advanced, modern,
sophisticated'' GC for many new parts, and "unmanaged" mode for a lot of
existing "legacy" libraries and subsystems.  I won't say that it wasted
a year of my life, because I was leading that effort at about
half-time... so, it only wasted HALF a year of my life!-)  Of course,
that was in the bad dark ages of about 5 years ago -- I'm sure that by
now everything is perfect and flawless and the experience of the
previous 25 years is thereby nullified, right?-)

>From your tone I assume that your experience in implementing and
cooperating with modern, "advanced" GC techniques is much fresher and
more successful than mine.  Personally, I'm just happy that other Python
developers must clearly have scars similar to mine in these respects, so
that Python's implementation is solid and conservative, one whose
correctness you CAN essentially count on.


> >> So python doesn't use the old SmallTalk 80 SmallInteger hack, or similar?
> >> Fair enough - the performance gain is nice, but the extra complexity would
> >> be a huge pain, i imagine.
> >
> > CPython currently is implemented on a strict "minimize all tricks" 
> > strategy.
> 
> A very, very sound principle. If you have the aforementioned decades,
> hojillions and serried ranks, an all-tricks-turned-up-to-eleven strategy
> can be made to work.

78% of software projects fail -- and I believe the rate of failures in
large IT departments and software houses is higher than average.

> If you're a relatively small non-profit outfit like 
> the python dev team, minimising tricks buys you reliability and agility,
> which is, really, what we all want.

And if you're a relatively large (and tumultuously growing),
pretty-good-profit outfit, minimizing tricks builds you scalability and
solidity.  Funny enough, I've found that my attitude that "clarity,
solidity and prudence are THE prime criteria of good implementations",
born of thirty years' worth of scars and "arrows in my back", made me an
"instant cultural fit" for Google (which I joined as Uber Technical Lead
just over six months ago, and where I'm currently happily prospering)...


Alex


From http  Fri Oct  7 08:26:28 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 05:26:28 -0700
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1128687060.102240.56040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xbr21zf63.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at gmail.com> writes:
> Once in a time, I thought mixins where a good idea; now I don't think
> so since they are too easily abused (see Zope 2) and as a consequence
> you get spaghetti-inheritance, where you have objects with methods
> inherited from everywhere. So be very careful if you want to use
> mixins; often you can go without them.

Yeah, I wonder though how much of that is a result of Python's
cavalier approach to multiple inheritance.  Does that happen much in
CLOS?  In Java because of multiple interfaces?  I've studied Flavors a
little and mix-ins were used in some extensive ways, but maybe
programs using them required extra care.

The Python tutorial does caution against indiscriminate use of
multiple inheritance.  I tried coding something without it, wished
that I'd used it and did so in the next version, but still am not sure
if I gained anything or not.


From tim at tt1lock.org  Mon Oct 17 08:33:22 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:33:22 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11l48tuqj7m11b5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <IoI87M.Iw0@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote or quoted:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> > "Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> writes:

[Microsoft]

> >> no, they got their by clever marketing [snip]
> >
> > What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
> > practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
> > PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
> > Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
> > didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.
> 
> And were later forced to rescind. [...]

That is inaccurate.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From chris at kateandchris.net  Mon Oct 24 17:13:56 2005
From: chris at kateandchris.net (Chris Lambacher)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:13:56 -0400
Subject: win32 process information, using win32 extension
In-Reply-To: <1129903954.839508.298270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129903954.839508.298270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051024211356.GC17848@kateandchris.net>

I started down the win32process path trying to solve the same problem.  That
only ended in misery for me.

Try this recipie instead:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/442477

-Chris

On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 07:12:34AM -0700, Java and Swing wrote:
> i need to get information about the processes running on a windows pc
> (98, 2k, xp)
> 
> i can get the pid's using, win32process.EnumProcesses()...and I can get
> a handle on a process using an id..such as
> 
> handle = win32api.OpenProcess(win32con.PROCESS_QUERY_INFORMATION, 0,
> pids[0])
> 
> ..but how can i get the name of the process, path to process, etc.  I
> have the win32 extensions (pywin32) on python 2.4.
> 
> thanks.
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct  1 12:02:46 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:02:46 -0400
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86oe69mdi1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Bart Lateur <bart.lateur at pandora.be> writes:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>>A skeptical policeman who says he doesn't actually believe the moon
>>affects behaviour nevertheless reports that "last weekend" things were
>>really crazy, and it was a full moon. Somebody writes in to correct him:
>>no, the full moon is actually "tomorrow".
>
> As a similar example: I've been told by various women independently,
> that "there are more babies born near a full moon."
>
> So... is there a correlation between insanity and babies being born?  :)

If what they say is true, then yes, there is. That doesn't mean
there's a logical - or even rational - explanation for that
correlation.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:33:50 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:33:50 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.19.42.429992@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <3g3rk1lv2dhcerqcn3hambu6p4l6mn70gq@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:19:46 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>Likewise I avoid emails that are broken. If it looks like it will contain
>web-bugs, javascript exploits, or badly formatted unreadable text, then I
>avoid any mail client that can't display it in plain text.
>
>And by "looks like", I mean "contains any HTML".

That is overreacting. All you need is a something that refuses to run
code. There is no need to ignore the formatting. 

I have well meaning friends who send me rather syrupy emails,
formatted.  I don't run any enclosures, but I look at the pictures and
the message. They are not spam. 

If people like sending such messages to each other it is not our
business to interfere.  On the contrary. Our job it help people send
arbitrary messages to each other as easily as possible.  Censoring
content and style is none of our business. Our job is to help get
messages through reliably, safely and efficiently.




-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Oct 29 08:52:37 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:52:37 +0200
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> "g.franzkowiak" <g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de> (gf) wrote:

>gf> If starts a process with popen2.popen3('myprogram') and myprogram.exe is
>gf>  running before, I've a connection to the second process, not to the first.
>gf> I can find the process by name before I start a process with popen2...,
>gf> but how bcan I connect t this process with a pipe ?

You have to use a named pipe.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jzgoda at o2.usun.pl  Wed Oct 19 16:03:16 2005
From: jzgoda at o2.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:03:16 +0200
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2267.1129750956.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>	<VTn5f.15916$65.429948@twister1.libero.it>	<dj666h$hkj$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.2267.1129750956.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dj68rb$p9g$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Micah Elliott napisa?(a):

>>How to install this structure eg. on Linux? What layout do you
>>recommend? It's tempting to use /opt hierarchy for installation
>>target (as it gives relatively much freedom within application
>>directory), but many administrators are reluctant to use this
>>hierarchy and prefer more standarized targets, such as /usr or
>>/usr/local.
> 
> Read about (and use) the Python-provided distutils, and let it do the
> work for you.  In particular,
> <http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/inst/alt-install-windows.html>
> discusses installation location.  The file name is a misnomer; it's
> equally applicable to linux.

I think that installing *application* (not misc. library) modules in
site-packages is at least stupid idea, as it makes a special filesystem
inside other, much more standarized filesystem (Windows, FHS, etc.). Why
not to do this usual way: libraries to $prefix/lib/$appname-$version,
binary to $prefix/bin, shared files to $prefix/share/$appname, etc --
and appropriately on Windows.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From hipertracker at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 06:56:10 2005
From: hipertracker at gmail.com (Jaroslaw Zabiello)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:56:10 +0200
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130052821.015256.9630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1f6ph623nsgjb$.1la6l5vyzxepl.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia 23 Oct 2005 00:33:41 -0700, kery napisa?(a):

> Any suggestions for Linux, specifically SuSE or perhaps Red Hat?

Eric3 http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

Eclipse http://www.eclipse.org/ 
  + pydev plugin http://pydev.sourceforge.net/

SPE http://pythonide.stani.be/

--
JZ


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 22:05:45 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:05:45 -0400
Subject: Hidden string formatting bug
In-Reply-To: <910885da0510131748y16dd9603n4e013553e28797df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <910885da0510131748y16dd9603n4e013553e28797df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510131905i6f99be4bncef50660107823ee@mail.gmail.com>

[Echo]
> I have been trying to figure out the problem with this string formatting:

[monstrous statement snipped]

> when it executes, I get this error: "inv argument required".

That shoud be "int", not "inv".

> I have checked and rechecked both the string and the tuple. I cant figure
> out what the problem is.  After playing around with it, i found out if change
> the last line to: "%s,%i) %(... I get a different error. The error is "not all
> arguments converted during string formatting".
>
> So I am baffled and confused as of why this wont work. Is anyone able to
> shed some light on my hidden bug?

Yup, it's precedence.  Here's the same thing:

sql = "%s" + \
      "%i" % ("abc", 2)

Run that and you get "int argument required".  Change the last %i to
%s and you get "not all arguments converted during string formatting".
 Both error messages are accurate.

That's because % binds tighter than "+".  As a 1-liner, and inserting
redundant parentheses to make the precedence obvious, my simplified
example is

sql = "%s" + ("%i" % ("abc", 2))

What you intended _requires_ inserting more parentheses to force the
intended order (if you're going to stick to this confusing coding
style):

sql = ("%s" + "%i") % ("abc", 2)

Better is to not use "+" on string literals, and not use backslash
continuation either; try this instead:

sql_format = ('string1'
                    'string2'
                    'string3'
                    ...
                    'last string')

Build the format in a separate statement to reduce the chance of
errors (for example, your original mistake would have been impossible
to make this way).  Use parens instead of backslashes.  Don't use "+"
to catenate string literals:  the Python compiler automatically
catenates adjacent string literals for you, and at compile-time (so
it's even more efficient than using '"+").


From timothy at open-networks.net  Sun Oct  9 19:42:07 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:42:07 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <20051009233046.GB6224@unpythonic.net>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<4349A3CD.8030603@open-networks.net>
	<20051009233046.GB6224@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <4349AACF.7000708@open-networks.net>

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:

>On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 09:12:13AM +1000, Timothy Smith wrote:
>  
>
>>FAYI i have already found it and it was a wrongly indented code block :/
>>    
>>
>
>When indentation leaves an illegal program structure, Python gives a very
>informative error message, such as
>
>  File "/tmp/x.py", line 3
>    return 3
>           ^
>IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level
>
>Jeff
>  
>
not in my first case it didn't. i simply tabbed an incorrect block in 
and it worked. i should have saved it to show you


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 31 18:52:32 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:52:32 +0100
Subject: cx_Oracle, is anything selected?
In-Reply-To: <dk6679$h5c$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <dk6679$h5c$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <3snp20Foku05U1@uni-berlin.de>

Damjan wrote:
> Is there a way to see if the SELECT in cx_Oracle didn't return anything?
> I want to optimize the situation when the number of selected rows is zero.
> Is select count(*) the only option, seems inefficient?

I don't understand your problem - if your select doesn't return 
anything, the fetch* methods on the cursor will tell you if there is any 
data to expect at all. Additionally there is teh rowcount-property that 
holds the number of rows the last execute* yielded.

Diez


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct 13 16:49:59 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:49:59 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <285FA816-BA45-4A74-8623-1DF39310DC4C@sbcglobal.net>

Thanks for reminding me of Gtk. OK, add that to the list.

The Web Browser interface is good for simple things, and will get better
with CSS2's adoption, but they still don't have a good way for important
things like interactive styled text, key bindings, etc. Good for  
simple things
(for which I use them), not for more complex stuff.

As for Tkinter, well, sigh, I have to go into a semi-rant, semi- 
eulogy right now.

Tk was, IMHO, the hands-down award winner for UI toolkit farthest  
ahead of
its time. I used it for years and years and years.

Tcl, on the other had, wasn't the _worst_ scripting language of all  
time, but it
was sure down in the bottom ten percent. How John Ousterhout could  
come up
with Tk on one hand and the other at the same Tcl boggles my mind.

Unfortunately, while Tkinter did provide in theory full access to Tk,  
it was in
practice never finished. I wrote quite a bit of code to try to add a  
true pythonic
interface to Tk via Tkinter (I'm happy to give it away if anyone  
wants--some of
it is actually in pretty good shape). But it's a big job, and it  
became clear to me
that Tk is going the way of the dinosaurs, so I abandoned it.

Ddevelopment on the advanced features of Tk--what really made it worth
using--has languished. Both marks and tags in the Text widget have been
fundamentally broken forever (not buggy, I mean broken in the sense that
their semantics destroys a great deal of their real potential), and I  
don't see
they'll ever be fixed. Same thing with tags in the Canvas widget.  
Plus the
lack of well-thought-out new widgets, and various other sins of omission
and comission, and I decided that Tkinter was clearly in the last of  
its days.

That said, if I was one of the founders of Google, Tk would be one of  
the
projects I'd hire a lot of people to get on to and actually realize  
its potential.
But I don't even buy lottery tickets :-)

Now I'm just waiting until one of the other kits becomes mature enough
(if ever) to start using it. So this is a query about that :-)
On 13-Oct-05, at 3:21 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> 1) Which plays best with Python? Ideally, it would already have some
>> higher-level python libraries to hide the grotty stuff that is almost
>> never needed when actually implementing apps.
>>
>> 2) Reliability of each?
>>
>> 3) Useful external libraries for each?
>>
>> 4) Ease of installation/use on OS X?
>>
>
> The answer to each of those questions points to Tkinter.  It comes
> with Python by default (the least installation hassles of any
> toolkit), is pretty reliable, has a reasonably Pythonic interface, and
> I don't understand the question about external libraries.
>
> However, Tkinter not most people's favorite, because the widgets look
> crude, they don't resemble the native widgets of any popular platform,
> and the widget set is somewhat limited.
>
> That suggests you're not asking the right questions.
>
> I use Tkinter because the Python gui's I've built so far have been for
> straightforward functionality purposes without being fancy.  However,
> if I were doing something for wide distribution and wanted it to look
> sharp, at this point I think I'd go for PyGtk despite the preference
> of many for wxpython.
>
> Finally, don't overlook the possibility of embedding a basic web
> server in your app, and having the user communicate with it through a
> web browser.  That turns HTML into your gui, which is very easy to
> program.  It also lets you easily handle remote clients, multiple
> concurrent clients, etc, and gives users a familiar and intuitive
> interface.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 12 06:37:06 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:37:06 +0200
Subject: Need a spider library
Message-ID: <434CE752.8030509@designaproduct.biz>


  Hi All,

I'm writting a spider program. I need to go to serveral URLs and extract 
information from the HTML source. Including links.
I was using FancyURLOpener and my own function that extracts the links 
from a HTML page. The problem is that I always
need to change it. This is because some sites use lower case tag names, 
others upper case tag names. Some of them use
href="page.html" others do it without the quotation   href=page.html but 
I could even find unclosed quotations <a href="page.html>
double opened and unclosed <a tags etc. There are many kinds of 
malformed HTML pages out there and it seems I'm not capable
of handling all of them. The question: is there a good library for 
Python for extraction links and images out  of (possibly malformed)
HTML soucre code? Like the "references" function in Lynx. I need to 
handle relative and absolute references and I need to know the
anchor text too and the position of the anchor inside the HTML source file.

For example this malformed link:

<a href="page.html>Sample link</a>

could be converted to:

['page.html','http://samplesite.current_location/page.html','Samle link']

Thanks in advance

   Les



From avnit7 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 13:38:35 2005
From: avnit7 at gmail.com (avnit)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 10:38:35 -0800
Subject: Print to printer
In-Reply-To: <1130552901.655182.203330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130528702.908172.189990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130552901.655182.203330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130783915.507976.141000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I just want to print text. I'll try macpython. Thanks for the help.



From johnjsal at NOSPAMgmail.com  Wed Oct 26 10:13:43 2005
From: johnjsal at NOSPAMgmail.com (John Salerno)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:13:43 GMT
Subject: suggestions between these two books
In-Reply-To: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <raM7f.1245$No6.28642@news.tufts.edu>

Correction: LP covers 2.3. The other covers 2.4.




John Salerno wrote:
> Hi all. I'm fairly new to programming and I thought I'd like to try 
> Python. I'm trying to decide between these two books:
> 
> Learning Python (O'Reilly)
> Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional (APress)
> 
> and I was hoping you might have some suggestions. LP seems to be a good 
> intro, but the other was published only a month ago and covers 2.4. So 
> one question would be, is 2.2 different enough from 2.4 to warrant 
> getting the newer book for that reason?
> 
> I might end up getting both eventually, but to start with I'm not sure 
> which to choose.
> 
> Thanks!


From maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl  Sat Oct 15 07:40:31 2005
From: maarten at remove_this_ws.tn.tudelft.nl (Maarten van Reeuwijk)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:40:31 +0200
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list of
	files)
References: <mailman.2111.1129375867.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8d9b8$4350eaaf$82a1bcd4$24867@news1.tudelft.nl>

Jari Aalto wrote:

> 
> [Keep CC, thank you]
> 
> Please suggest comments how can I make this script to work
> from bash. Also how can I skip better the [0] argument from
> command line without hte extra variable i?

Didn't check, but something like this?

#!/bin/python
import os, sys, py_compile;
i = 0;
for arg in sys.argv:
  file  = os.path.basename(arg);
  dir   = os.path.dirname(arg);
  i += 1;
  if i > 1  and os.path.exists(dir):
      os.chdir(dir);
     print "compiling %s\n" % (file);
     py_compile.compile(file);

-- 
===================================================================
Maarten van Reeuwijk                    dept. of Multiscale Physics
Phd student                             Faculty of Applied Sciences
maarten.ws.tn.tudelft.nl             Delft University of Technology


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 27 15:22:47 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:22:47 +0100
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <1130436984.22172.28.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>	<8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>	<312cfe2b0510270931r52a18d0em29168b9702d2c748@mail.gmail.com>	<20051027174139.GC2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>	<312cfe2b0510271100y32f6163es8a27524ccc37747c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1130436984.22172.28.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
Message-ID: <djr9e5$caj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 14:00, Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
> 
>>Not quite because if something(3) fails, I still want something(4) to
>>run.  
> 
> 
> def something_ignore_exceptions(x):
>   try: something(x)
>   except: pass
> 
> something_ignore_exceptions(1)
> something_ignore_exceptions(2)
> # etc...
Then the obvious extension:

for i in range(20):
    ...

but I get the idea that Gregory was thinking of different statements 
rather than calls to the same function with different arguments.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From quiteblack at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 10:05:20 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (black)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 07:05:20 -0700
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1938.1129101331.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1938.1129101331.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129125919.957270.308200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

unluckly i am with windows, anyway tks !



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 28 19:50:29 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:50:29 +1000
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86slule9vy.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130527656.685340.235470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.28.23.50.29.681897@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:27:36 -0700, usgog at yahoo.com wrote:

> hm...Is there a way to get rid of the newline in "print"?

Yes, by using another language *wink*

Or, instead of using print, use sys.stdout.write().


-- 
Steven.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 16:58:38 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:58:38 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <gm0jk1dp8pj2jmdlkcnc8uutbrabg643q0@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 05:55:01 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Actually, you present a design that forces a solution that makes them
>do what you want down their throats, never mind what they want, or
>what they've been doing. It shows an amazing ignorance about the
>internet and how people behave on it. Like most antispam proposals, it
>won't actually stop spam, just force spammers to concentrate on
>different channels. You seem to have randomly broken quoting for
>people who download mail and read it offline, and for any medium
>that's unreliable or doesn't reliably deliver messages "in order" -
>which includes mail and news.  Virus writers will love the ability to
>change peoples address books remotely. The problem of differing
>character sets is technically solved. Practically, the solution
>doesn't work because people implementing the software ignore the
>standards. What's your server going to do when it gets messages with
>characters in them that aren't valid in the charset that it's declared
>as being? Better yet, what's it going to do when the characters are
>valid, but the declared charset isn't the one the author actually
>used? You implementation sketch only covers the client talking to the
>first server (in that it requires the client to encrypt a challange
>phrase with the private key belonging the email id, which is
>presumably what 2822 uses for the envelope sender). Most mail on the
>internet goes through at least two servers, and news is much
>worse. For instance, your messages apparently passed through 10
>servers getting to me. You really have to deal with store and forward,
>or convince a large number of corporations that potentially hostile
>users should be allowed to talk directly to their mail servers, which
>isn't very likely. Kudos for recognizing that spam needs to be dealt
>with by people with guns, but you lose half of them for making ISPS
>liable for it.
>
>I also read the comment about wanting an automated "Ask them to run my
>browser in my favorite configuration", which is equally naive. A lot
>of sites have such cruft on them already. I find them funny - I surf
>the web on three different platforms, none of them Windows. Any
>pointer to download a new browser or plugin for Windows just impresses
>me with the authors lack of skills. The only browser I know of that
>runs on all three platforms is Opera, and it's something radically
>different on one of the three. Even should you get the platform right,
>almost nobody is going to bother upgrading following the download
>links. The very small percentage of users who are real geeks will
>silently thank you for the notice, and update their software. Most
>users will ignore it so long as the page isn't obviously broken. For
>those for whom it's broken, all but small percentage will simply find
>some other site to visit. I'd suggest that anyone thinking about writing

Your post brings up a meta-issue.  How long should posts be?
I note several schools of thought.

There is the initial post, sort of a mini lecture on something
covering perhaps 7 major points.

Then you can have the theatre-critic style response where each person
in turn goes through the 7 points saying when they think.

Then they repeat the 7 points each commenting on what each of the
others had to say on the seven points. etc.

Then there is the conversational style where you discuss one major
point at a time, perhaps with several threads, one for each point.
These threads meander or split off themselves.

My preference is to think of a post, other than perhaps the initial
essay post, as like a paragraph.  It should stick to one main idea. 

Seems to me google will have an easier time classifying posts if they
don't cover too much ground.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From iddw at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 17:35:41 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:35:41 GMT
Subject: dictionaries/pointers
References: <1128720229.615202.4670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128720944.14f3466d6f1e5fc332c4958f1db59251@teranews>

On 7 Oct 2005 14:23:49 -0700, "Rob Conner" <rtconner at gmail.com> wrote:

>I dont know how to do this and can't think of a simple way to.
>
>All I want is a dictionary where two keys point to the same object.
>(to steal the ascii art from
>http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html)
>I want sometihng like this:
>
>,------.       +-------+
>| dict |------>|+-----+|     +---+
>`------'       || "a" |+---->| 1 |
>               |+-----+|     +---+
>               |       |       ^
>               |+-----+|       |
>               || "b" |+-------'
>               |+-----+|
>               +-------+
>               |       |
>               |+-----+|     +---+
>               || "c" |+---->| 2 |
>               |+-----+|     +---+
>               +-------+
>
>Where if I change "a" or "b" to 3 the other one will change?
>Is this even possible? How would I do it?

A simple, ugly answer: Use a mutable object rather than a plain
integer.  Example:

>>> elt = [1]
>>> dict = {"a":elt, "b":elt, "c":[2]}
>>> print dict
{'a': [1], 'c': [2], 'b': [1]}
>>> dict["a"][0] = 3
>>> print dict
{'a': [3], 'c': [2], 'b': [3]}
>>> 

Regards,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From jason.lai at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 05:00:55 2005
From: jason.lai at gmail.com (Jason  Lai)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 02:00:55 -0700
Subject: How can I call a subclass method from parent class ?
In-Reply-To: <1129780540.378921.269250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129780540.378921.269250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129798854.968065.99860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you use a newstyle class, e.g. class A(object), then you can get the
superclass with cls.__base__. You could also use super(cls,cls),
although note that it returns a <super> object that isn't exactly the
same thing as a class -- but good enough for just accessing attributes.

Make sure to check that your superclass isn't <object>, otherwise it'll
complain about <object> not having a foo attribute. __base__ is
probably easier for this purpose. Also be careful with multiple
inheritance.

No such thing as __super though.



From http  Mon Oct  3 03:38:22 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 00:38:22 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xxbgj4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7xslvj3v9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
>   def countdown():
>     n = 3
>     while n > 0:
>        yield n

Bah, ommitted a line:

   def countdown():
     n = 3
     while n > 0:
        yield n
        n -= 1


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 09:24:20 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:24:20 +0200
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>	<1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>	<1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com><dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org>	<1128428782.4070.42.camel@dot.uniqsys.com><43427640.3010707@holdenweb.com><1128430810.4070.55.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<43427D77.7020503@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <dhtvq3$hs2$1@sea.gmane.org>

>  (is 295 angle brackets in a single message perhaps some kind of c.l.py record?)

oh, nevermind.

</F> 





From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 19 16:28:19 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:28:19 GMT
Subject: multi-property groups?
Message-ID: <D%x5f.24374$ae.595@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



I was trying to see if I can implement property groups so I can set and 
pass arguemts as dictionaries.  I think this will simplify interfacing 
to multiple objects and funtions that use a lot of keywords as arguments.

But so far, the the following seems like it's not the most efficient way 
to do it.  So is there a better way?  Is there a way to use properties 
to do this same thing?

I'd also like a way to override the dictionary methods __getitem__, 
__setitem__, and __delitem__.  (Or an equivalent)


Cheers,
    Ron


class Pobject(object):
     """ an objects class that can have property groups """
     __props__ = {}
     def Properties(self, *args):
         dct = {}
         for i in args[1:]:
             dct.setdefault(i,None)
         self.__props__[args[0]]=dct
         return dct
     def __getattr__(self, name):
         for dct in self.__props__:
             if name in self.__props__[dct]:
                 return self.__props__[dct].__getitem__(name)
         return self.__dict__[name]
     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
         for dct in self.__props__:
             if name in self.__props__[dct]:
                 self.__props__[dct].__setitem__(name,value)
                 return
         self.__dict__[name] = value

class shapes(Pobject):
     def __init__(self):
         self.A = self.Properties('A', 'square', 'triangle', 'cube')
         self.B = self.Properties('B', 'red', 'blue', 'green')
     def show(self, it):
         if it == 'shapes':
            self.pp(it, self.A)  # pass properties as groups!
         elif it == 'colors':
            self.pp(it, self.B)  # have several property groups!
         else:
            print "I have no %s.\n" % it
     def pp(self, it, obj):
         print '%s I have:' % it
         for item in obj.keys():
             print '  %s = %r'  % (item,obj[item])
         print

box = shapes()
box.square = 10
box.blue = 5
print box.square
print box.blue
print box.green
box.purple = 'violet'
print box.purple
print
box.show('shapes')
box.show('colors')
box.show('flowers')


10
5
None
violet

shapes I have:
   cube = None
   square = 10
   triangle = None

colors I have:
   blue = 5
   green = None
   red = None

I have no flowers.




From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  7 11:35:38 2005
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (alainpoint at yahoo.fr)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 08:35:38 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1699.1128698816.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128699338.667416.56250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

No doubt you're right but common sense dictates that membership testing
would test identity not equality.
This is one of the rare occasions where Python defeats my common sense
;-(

Alain



From nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 16:06:45 2005
From: nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com (ncf)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 13:06:45 -0700
Subject: how to get any available port
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hmm...perhaps he is trying to do a transfer thing like many chat
programs do. Instead of sending large files across a server, you
"Direct Connect" and send the file directly. :shrugs:



From whzhao at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 05:17:47 2005
From: whzhao at gmail.com (Wenhua Zhao)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:17:47 +0800
Subject: Does python support the expression "a = b | 1"???
Message-ID: <di0qq5$21i$2@news.net.uni-c.dk>

a = b | 1

a = b if b != nil
else a =1

Is there such expression in python?

Thanks a lot!


From m.barenco at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:06:32 2005
From: m.barenco at gmail.com (m.barenco at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:06:32 -0700
Subject: dictionnaries and lookup tables
Message-ID: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am considering using dictionnaries as lookup tables e.g.

>>>D={0.5:3.9,1.5:4.2,6.5:3}

and I would like to have a dictionnary method returning the key and
item of the dictionnary whose key is smaller than the input of the
method (or <=,>,>=) but maximal (resp. maximal,minimal,minimal) eg.:

>>>D.smaller(3.0)
(1.5,4.2)
>>>D.smaller(11.0)
(6.5,3)
>>>D.smaller(-1.0)
None (or some error message)

Now, I know that dictionnaries are stored in a non-ordered fashion in
python but they are so efficient in recovering values (at least wrt
lists) that it suggests me that internally there is some ordering. I
might be totally wrong because I don't know how the hashing is really
done. Of course I would use such methods in much larger tables. So is
this possible or should I stick to my own class with O(log2(N))
recovery time?

Note that when I type:
>>>dir(D)
['__class__', '__cmp__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__',
'__doc__', '__eq__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getitem__',
'__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__',
'__lt__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__',
'__repr__', '__setattr__', '__setitem__', '__str__', 'clear', 'copy',
'fromkeys', 'get', 'has_key', 'items', 'iteritems', 'iterkeys',
'itervalues', 'keys', 'pop', 'popitem', 'setdefault', 'update',
'values']
the functions __ge__, __gt__, __lt__, __le__ seem to be non-implemented
but there is some __doc__ in them. Is there the intention to do
something similar as is described above or are they here for some
(future) dictionnary comparison purposes?

Thanks a lot!

Martino



From sszmidt at netwvcom.com  Mon Oct  3 19:59:22 2005
From: sszmidt at netwvcom.com (sszmidt at netwvcom.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:59:22 -0400
Subject: Python Debug Build
In-Reply-To: <dhs8h9$3lf$3@sea.gmane.org>
References: <20051003210217.88812.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<dhs8h9$3lf$3@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510031959.22492.sszmidt@netwvcom.com>

On Monday 03 October 2005 17:41, Steve Holden wrote:
> Celine & Dave wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > What happens if I build Python with debug option
> > (--with-pydebug)? Do I see any changes in my program
> > output? What is --with-pydebug good for?
>
> It's used for debugging the Python interpreter itself.

And if I recall correctly from the documentation, it will also run a bit 
slower. But verify that ...
-- 

Steve


From sigzero at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 19:46:23 2005
From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert Hicks)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 16:46:23 -0700
Subject: Dealing with Excel
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2234.1129674078.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2234.1129674078.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129679183.469734.151920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

No, I have to format fields and everything sad to say. Another poster
up the chain of this posting gave me the nudge in the direction I
needed.

Thanks all,

Robert



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 04:35:33 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:35:33 +0200
Subject: Queue question
References: <1129413036.271162.279880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129419092.954592.59630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4knxw.1s6kxw4l9w7yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve M <sjmaster at gmail.com> wrote:

> According to my "Python in a Nutshell":
> 
> q.get(block=True)
> 
> is the signature, so, as you use it above, the call will hang until
> something is on the queue. If block is false and the queue is empty,
> q.get() will raise the exception Empty.
> 
> q.get_nowait is apparently synonymous with q.get(block=False)

Yep.  Nowadays you can also have an optional timeout= argument to the
.get method, to obtain the Empty exception only after the get attempt
has waited for some time for some item to arrive.


> q.not_empty, if it existed, I expect would be true just in case there
> was at least one item in the queue. But according to my book there is
> q.empty and q.full, which is true when the queue has the maximum
> allowed number of items (a value specified when the queue is created).

not_empty and not_full are not methods but rather instances of the
threading.Condition class, which gets waited on and notified
appropriately.  I'm not entirely sure exactly WHAT one is supposed to do
with the Condition instances in question (I'm sure there is some design
intent there, because their names indicate they're public); presumably,
like for the Lock instance named 'mutex', they can be used in subclasses
that do particularly fiendish things... but I keep planning not to cover
them in the 2nd edition of the Nutshell (though there I _will_ cover the
idea of subclassing Queue to implement queueing disciplines other than
FIFO without needing to worry about synchronization, which I had skipped
in the 1st edition).

 
> Also, I don't think you can rely on q.empty in the way you may expect.
> For example, another thread can empty the queue between the time you
> test whether q.empty is false and the time you call q.get.

Absolutely true.  "Anything can happen" right after you call q.empty(),
so the existence of that method isn't a good idea (it's somewhat of an
"attractive nuisance" -- its existence prompts some programmers who
don't read docs to try and use it, possibly producing unreliable code
which works when tested but silently breaks in real-life use).


Alex


From ron at vnetworx.net  Mon Oct 17 11:32:51 2005
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Ron Guerin)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:32:51 -0400
Subject: NYLUG meeting: 10/26 The Python Object Model with Alex Martelli &
	Google (open bar and food!)
Message-ID: <4353C423.6080605@vnetworx.net>

(date and time inadvertently omitted last time. sorry!)

The New York Linux User's Group invites you to a special presentation
by Alex Martelli of Google, on the Python Object Model.  This
presentation will be held at P.J. Clarke's Sidecar, rather than our
usual location, and Google is picking up the tab for an hour and a half
of open bar and food.  Additionally, if you're looking for a job as a
Python developer, bring your resume.

Please RSVP at http://rsvp.nylug.org to attend, as seating is limited.

PS: You may wish to bring ID and a GPG fingerprint for keysigning.

- Ron

(announcement follows)

               The New York Linux User's Group Presents
                            Alex Martelli
                               - on -
                       The Python Object Model

                    Held at P.J. Clarke's Sidecar
                  October 26, 2005  6:00pm-10:00pm
                 915 Third Avenue @ 55th Street - NY

Python is a multi-paradigm programming language, but, out of the
paradigms it supports, there is no doubt that OOP (Object Oriented
Programming) is the paradigm that forms Python's core. If you have done
any substantial programming with Python, you have, most likely, used
some of its OOP features. But -- have you ever stopped to really think
about those OOP features, the mechanisms that Python uses (and exposes!)
to implement them, and how best to make use of the possibilities this
state of things offers?

This subject is generally known as the "Object Model" of a language.
This talk stops a bit short of examining every level of Python's Object
Model -- in particular, it does not get into metatypes (metaclasses) and
similar levels of "Black Magic". Rather, the talk sticks to the most
practically interesting aspects of Python's Object Model as seen from
the point of view of a programmer using Python -- understanding exactly
what's going on in all kind of everyday OOP-usage situation, what
alternatives and trade-offs these mechanisms imply (for example, when
should you use closures, and when should you use functors instead? when
to inherit, and when to delegate instead?), and how Design Patterns play
into the mix (Python subsumes and build-ins some classic DPs, and makes a
few others irrelevant due to its highly dynamic typing, but other classic
DPs yet remain extremely relevant and important for optimal day to day
use of OOP in Python).

About Alex Martelli
-------------------
Alex Martelli is Uber Technical Lead at Google, in Production Software.
He wrote Python in a Nutshell and co-edited the Python Cookbook, and is
a member of the Python Software Foundation. Before joining Google,
Martelli spent 8 years with IBM, 12 with think3 inc, and 3 as a Python
freelance consultant, mostly for AB Strakt (Sweden).

P. J. Clarke's Sidecar
----------------------
915 Third Avenue @ 55th Street - NY

Sidecar is PJ Clarkes handsome semiprivate upstairs dining room.  You
enter Sidecar through a distinct yet discreet door on East 55th Street.

Subway:
Take the E, V or 6 Subways to 51st Street, cut over to Third Avenue and
walk north 4 blocks.

Take the 4, 5 or 6 Trains to 59th Street, cut over to Third and walk 4
blocks south.

Bus:
Take the 101, 102 or 103 Buses to 55th. If you're coming downtown on
Lexington, cut across to Third. If you're coming up on Third, it's right
across the street.

http://pjclarkes.com/htm/sidecar.htm

About NYLUG
-----------
NYLUG is the New York Linux Users Group, which has met every month
without fail for the last six years.  Meetings are free and open to the
public, but require advance RSVP due to fire code and security
requirements at our usual meeting space at the IBM Building.

Our announcements mailing list at
http://nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-announce provides a low-volume
but steady stream of Linux, Free and Open Source, and related community
and other user group announcements for the tri-state area.

Our technical discussion list is a moderate-volume list featuring a
diverse group that from home users to enterprise security experts.
http://nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk

http://www.nylug.org/



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 07:49:20 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 04:49:20 -0700
Subject: Client/Server socket send user input
In-Reply-To: <i8vtl1d86dsbjenohj46edr49k6dhjank9@4ax.com>
References: <1130256091.162014.12570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130269146.851225.201320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<i8vtl1d86dsbjenohj46edr49k6dhjank9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130327360.059626.198170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Dennis,
   Thanks.  That certainly looks like it could work.  I understand
about the interactive shell and my app going back and forth with the
reads/writes.  When my program runs it won't be used in an interactive
python shell, but that is the only way I know of to really test it.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 21:56:00 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:56:00 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:44 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>     I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to 
> live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me 
> know.

In other words, "why don't you go back to Russia, you commie pinko
fascist Jew Nazi".

Mike Meyer has got just as much right to live in America as David
Schwartz. Nice to see how quickly Americans' supposed love of freedom
disappears once they are exposed to views that contradict their own.


-- 
Steven.



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 25 11:52:00 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:52:00 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130253519.330211.92880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lsl50soghlt8f@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-25, nephish at xit.net <nephish at xit.net> wrote:

> Ok, first off, thanks for all the help guys,
>
> this part "set xtics ("label" pos, "label" pos, "label" pos)"
> is mainly what i was confused about. the 'pos' part. i think
> that the way i am writing this leaves this out. in fact, i am
> pretty sure.

Yup, it looks like it.

> here is the code i am trying out.

[Another hint: when posting code, don't wrap it.  It won't run
as it was posted, and people aren't generally going to be willing to go
through and un-wrap the lines in order to try it.]

> gnuplot> set title "testing"
> gnuplot> set term png
> gnuplot> set out "/home/piv/PivData/tmp/images/graph.png"
> gnuplot> set xtics (['10/18 09:54', '10/17 22:42', '10/17 11:30',
> '10/17 00:18', '10/16 13:06', '10/16 01:54', '10/15 14:42', '10/15
> 03:30', '10/14 16:18', '10/14 05:06', '10/13 17:54', '10/13 06:42',
> '10/12 19:30', '10/12 08:18', '10/25 09:54'])

OK, You need to get rid of the sqare brackets, and you need an
x-position value after each of the strings.

> i noticed in the docs for gnuplot, that it can do date/time
> and by default uses seconds since 2000. and then you can pass
> the format that you want to show it in. would this give the
> same kind of result that i am looking for ?

It looks like it.  Though I've used custom tics in the past, it
was never for time values.  Based on the help from gnuplot, I
suspect you can get what you want without doing custom tics,
but rather using the commands

   set xdata time
   set timefmt
   set format x

Interestingly, using Unix timestamps creates some sort of
resolution problems.  The following ought to work but doesn't.
It appears that there is some sort of resolution problem:

------------------------------8<------------------------------
import Gnuplot,time,sys,math

def pause():
    sys.stdout.write("Press enter to continue: ")
    sys.stdin.readline()

def fgrid(start,stop,count):
    for i in xrange(count):
        yield start + ((stop-start)*i)/count

start = time.time()

xdata = [x for x in fgrid(0,600.0,10)]      # two minutes worth
ydata = [math.sin(x/100.0) for x in xdata]
data = Gnuplot.Data(xdata,ydata,with='linespoints',using=(1,2))
gp = Gnuplot.Gnuplot(debug=1)
gp.title('Data starting at %s' % time.asctime(time.gmtime(start+xdata[0])))

# x axis will use default tics (seconds since start of run)
gp.plot(data)
pause()

# same data with x value as Unix timestamps

xdata = [x+start for x in xdata]
print xdata
data = Gnuplot.Data(xdata,ydata,with='linespoints',using=(1,2))

gp('set xdata time')
gp('set timefmt "%s')
gp('set format x "%r"')
gp('set xtics 120')
gp.plot(data)
pause()
------------------------------8<------------------------------

   
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  LOOK!!! I'm WALKING
                                  at               in my SLEEP again!!
                               visi.com            


From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Fri Oct 21 11:46:49 2005
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:46:49 -0400
Subject: coloring a complex number
Message-ID: <43590D69.8010008@optonline.com>

Spending the morning avoiding responsibilities, and seeing what it would
take to color some complex numbers.

class color_complex(complex):
         def  __init__(self,*args,**kws):
                 complex.__init__(*args)
                 self.color=kws.get('color', 'BLUE')

>>> a=color_complex(1,7)
>>> print a
(1+7j)                                                      #good so far
>>> a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE') 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#37>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE')
TypeError: 'color' is an invalid keyword argument for this function

No good... it seems that I am actually subclassing the built_in function
'complex' when I am hoping to have been subclassing the built_in numeric
type - complex.

but some googling sends me to lib/test/test_descr.py

where there a working subclass of complex more in
accordance with my intentions.

class color_complex(complex):
    def __new__(cls,*args,**kws):
            result = complex.__new__(cls, *args)
            result.color = kws.get('color', 'BLUE')
            return result

>>> a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE')
>>> print a
(1+7j)
>>> print a.color
BLUE

which is very good.

But on the chance that I end up pursuing this road, it would be good if
I understood what I just did. It would certainly help with my
documentation  ;)

Assistance appreciated.

NOTE:

The importance of the asset of the depth and breadth of Python archives
-  for learning (and teaching) and real world production - should not be
underestimated, IMO. I could be confident if there was an answer to
getting the functionality I was looking for as above, it would be found
easily enough by a google search.  It is only with the major
technologies that one can hope to pose a question of almost any kind to
google and get the kind of relevant hits one gets when doing a Python
related search.  Python is certainly a major technology, in that
respect.  As these archives serve as an extension to the documentation,
the body of Python documentation is beyond any  normal expectation.

True, this asset is generally better for answers than explanations.

I got the answer I needed.  Pursuing here some explanation of that answer.

Art




From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 16:28:09 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 13:28:09 -0700
Subject: Call C functions from Python
In-Reply-To: <11k5mpg999eos1f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5mpg999eos1f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1128457689.105158.24700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

ok i got ctypes...now i try

>> from ctypes import *
>> myApp = CDLL("C:\\myapp.dll")

..now how can I call functions on in myapp.dll?  From the tutorial I am
not sure..i try, dir(cdll.myApp) and dir(myApp)..but don't see my
functions listed.

thanks

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-04, Java and Swing <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there some other way, besides SWIG, which will allow me to call
> > functions inside an Ansi C DLL?
>
> ctypes
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now KEN and BARBIE
>                                   at               are PERMANENTLY ADDICTED to
>                                visi.com            MIND-ALTERING DRUGS...



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Fri Oct 21 03:36:47 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:36:47 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev> <86k6g8uosa.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlh6i1.9i3.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Mike Meyer enlightened us with:
> It's simpler to use eval and command substitution:
>
> eval $(python myScript.py)

This looks like the best solution to me.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu  Thu Oct 13 18:52:17 2005
From: tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:52:17 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<llrik1ph4mpkud83t9qpnjks533vpkv24e@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.22.49.29.840592@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<20051010004218.03171fb6.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu>
	<r12rk11qa3h12ot0a194vca0e11pt1n3ih@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20051014005217.32b82c84.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:04:14 GMT
Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:42:18 +0200, Stefaan A Eeckels
> <tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu> wrote or quoted :
> 
> >"I don't understand that attitude.  Don't we want email that has
> > dancing bears, cute little videos, musical tunes, animated waving
> > hands, sixty fonts, and looks like it's been done with crayolas?
> > Good grief, man, think like a three year old!"
> 
> that excuse could also be used to explain why you have not cracked a
> book since high school.  The same tools that create dancing bears can
> do a UML diagram.

Mine doesn't. Stick figures is as far as it'll go.

Specific document formats can be attached to an email without any
problems. When exact rendering is important, the appropriate format
(e.g. PDF) can be used. Only a fool would want his email program to
render a UML diagram (which is far more than a cute drawing done in
Visio, in case you hadn't noticed).

-- 
Stefaan
-- 
As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning,
and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh 


From durumdara at mailpont.hu  Thu Oct  6 03:33:39 2005
From: durumdara at mailpont.hu (durumdara at mailpont.hu)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:33:39 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Copy files to Linux server through ssh tunnel
Message-ID: <43278.195.228.229.142.1128584019.squirrel@195.228.229.142>

Hi !

I have some backup files on a server farm.
I want to store these local backup files on a backup file server for
"safety's snake".

These files are compressed zip files with 12 character length password.
But my system admin asked me, how can I improve the safety of the copy
operation, and the storing (now I use Samba share to store these files. I
map the SMB share on the client, copy these files, and unmap SMB).

Then I thinking to ssh protocol to improve protection.

The backup script is a py script. I see that Winscp can copy files through
ssh tunnel. Can I do it too ?
How ? How to I do it in pythonic way ?

Please help me with some examples or urls or other infos !

Thanks * 1000:
dd







----------------------------------------------
1 Gbyte Ingyenes E-Mail T?rhely a MailPont-t?l
http://www.mailpont.hu/



From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 22:51:53 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:51:53 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <58j533-40o.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djpfca$pbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>>                             . Microsoft said you can sell Windows
>> and other operating systems, but there will be a charge for every
>> machine you sell without Windows -- if you want to be able to buy
>> Windows wholesale. Someone could comply with this by not selling any
>> other operating systems at all and never pay the fee. Therefore,
>> this is a lesser restriction than saying you can only sell Windows
>> wholesale if you don't sell or offer any competing systems.

> No - you claim that allowing somebody (by contract?) to do Z at a
> penalty is "lesser" than disallowing them from doing Z.  Sorry - both
> are equal in market economics (where the financial imperatve rules).

    Umm, no it's lesser in a strictly logical sense.

> Indeed, no contract can "disallow" somebody from doing Z - you are
> always at liberty to break a contract! (See the RH Enterprise licence
> as an example of a contract that you are at liberty to break by
> copying RHE to more machines at the penalty of losing RH maintenance
> support- I recently had this argument with Rick Moen). The penalty
> for doing so is what is at issue.
>
> So your definitions are anyway without semantic content, and hence the
> argument cannot proceed.

    My argument proceeds exactly the same if they're equal as if they're 
lesser. It is totally not dependent upon how much lesser it is.

> And even if the argument were too proceed, your use of "lesser" would
> fail, because it appears to mean "is a (proper) subset of the ways
> that" without having established what different (i.e. same) means, and
> I'd submit that there is no diffence between the elements you exhibit
> in the setting of market regulation law.

    My argument proceeds the same if they're equivalent. (Did you read it?!)

    DS




From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Oct 18 17:28:22 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:28:22 -0700
Subject: Intersection of lists/sets -- with a catch
Message-ID: <200510181428.22646.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Hello All,

I find myself in this situation from time to time: I want to compare two lists 
of arbitrary objects and (1) find those unique to the first list, (2) find 
those unique to the second list, (3) find those that overlap. But here is the 
catch: comparison is not straight-forward. For example, I will want to 
compare 2 objects based on a set of common attributes. These two objects need 
not be members of the same class, etc. A function might help to illustrate:

def test_elements(element1, element2):
  """
  Returns bool.
  """
  # any evaluation can follow
  return (element1.att_a == element2.att_a) and \
         (element1.att_b == element2.att_b)

So my very naieve solution usually bears resemblance to the following code 
(made inelegant by the irritating necessity to keep track of a counter):

for some_element in some_list:
  i = 0
  while i < len(another_list):
    another_element = another_list[i]
    overlap = test_elements(some_element, another_element)
    if overlap:
      store_overlap(some_element, another_element)
      # speed-up, same as i+=1
      another_list.pop(i)
      break
    else:
      i += 1
  if not overlap:
    store_unique_some(some_element)

After this loop, "identical" elements (according to the evaluation criteria) 
from the two lists are stored somewhere, elements unique to 'some_list' are 
stored somewhere else, and 'another_list' has only elements originally unique 
to itself according to the evaluation criteria remaining. Of course this code 
assumes that both original lists contained only unique elements within 
themselves and were previously sorted based on the evaluation criteria (to 
speed-up the loop).

So, one improvement I can think of is to use an iterator for the inner loop:

for some_element in some_list:
  for another_element in another_list:
    overlap = test_elements(some_element, another_element)
    if overlap:
      store_overlap(some_element,another_element)
      # big problem here -- iterator gets lost
      another_list.remove(another_element)
      break
  if not overlap:
    unique_some.append(some_element)

But the problem is obvious, the iterator becomes out of sync with 
'another_list'. An example can illustrate:

py> alist = [1,2,3,4]
py> for el in alist:
...   print el
...   if el == 3:
...     alist.remove(el)
...
1
2
3
py> alist
[1, 2, 4]

So, a question would be how one might "correct" the iterator in this 
situation. Inspecting dir(iter) provides no clues as to the identity of an 
iterator's internal counter.

Its probably obvious to everyone that this type of task seems perfect for 
sets. However, it does not seem that sets can be used in the following way, 
using a hypothetical "comparator" function. The "comparator" would be 
analagous to a function passed to the list.sort() method. Such a device would 
crush the previous code to the following very straight-forward statements:

some_set = Set(some_list, comparator=test_elements)
another_set = Set(another_list, comparator=test_elements)
overlaps = some_set.intersection(another_set)
unique_some = some_set.difference(another_set)
unique_another = another_set.difference(some_set)

I am under the personal opinion that such a modification to the set type would 
make it vastly more flexible, if it does not already have this ability.

Any thoughts on how I might accomplish either technique or any thoughts on how 
to make my code more straightforward would be greatly appreciated.

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 07:56:43 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 13:56:43 +0200
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128735204.407666.193440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di8c5s$ka3$1@sea.gmane.org>

(re that earlier thread, I think that everyone that thinks that it's a
good thing that certain Python constructs makes grammatical sense
in english should read the previous post carefully...)

Rob Cowie wrote:

> A string can be thought of as a tuple of characters.

footnote: the correct python term is "sequence of characters".

> Tuples support membership testing thus...
>
> choice1 = raw_input("> ")
>
> if '1' or 's' or 'S' in choice1:
>   #do something
> elif '2' or 'e' or E' in choice1:
>   #do something
>
> It doesn't seem to me to be a good idea; If the input is 'Start',
> option1 is executed, likewise if the input is 'Stop', or any other
> string with 's' in it.

in fact, the first choice is always executed, because

    if '1' or 's' or 'S' in choice1:
        ...

might look as if it meant

    if ('1' in choice1) or ('s' in choice1) or ('S' in choice1):
        ...

but it really means

    if ('1') or ('s') or ('S' in choice1):
        ...

since non-empty strings are true, the '1' will make sure that the entire
expression is always true, no matter what choice1 contains.

> Perhaps a better idea is to present the user with a choice that cannot
> be deviated from, along the lines of...
>
> def main():
>   print "1.\tStart"
>   print "2.\tSomething Else"
>   print "3.\tStop"
>
>   x = raw_input()
>   if x is '1': print 'Start'
>   elif x is '2': print 'Something else'
>   elif x is '3': print 'End'
>   else: main()

The "is" operator tests for object identity, not equivalence.  Nothing
stops a Python implementation from creating *different* string objects
with the same contents, so the above isn't guaranteed to work.  (it
does work on current CPython versions, but that's an implementation
optimization, and not something you can rely on).

You should always use "==" to test for equivalence (and you should never
use "is" unless you know exactly what you're doing).

</F>





From smcg4191zz at friizz.RimoovAllZZs.com  Sun Oct 23 14:07:39 2005
From: smcg4191zz at friizz.RimoovAllZZs.com (Stuart McGraw)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:07:39 -0600
Subject: wxpython - passing arg to wx.app OnInit
References: <11lm687nih0l7ac@corp.supernews.com>
	<7pGdnfmqQoJJG8beRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <11lnkbipmbgl0d2@corp.supernews.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:7pGdnfmqQoJJG8beRVn-iA at powergate.ca...
> Stuart McGraw wrote:
> > I have a wxPython app, conventionally structured
> > with a Application class derived from wx.App.
> > My problem is that the app accepts a command
> > line argument that must be acted upon within the
> > OnInit() method of the Application class.  How do
> > I pass it cleanly from main() into app.OnInit()?  In 
> > the simplified example below, dbfn is the piece of 
> > info that is in main() that OnInit() needs to use.
> > Is a global variable is the only way?  :-(
> 
> There are various ways, but the simplest is to accept that sys.argv is
> *already* a "global" and just to access it directly from the
> Application's OnInit() method.
> 
> This wiki page demonstrates:
> http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/UsingCommandLineArguments
> 
> -Peter

I simplied the my code for posting.  In my real program, the
thing being passed is not a command line argument per se,
but the result of signifigant processing dependent on the 
command line argument.  I do not want to repeat that 
processing in the wx.App method.
Would you elaborate on the other ways?


From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Wed Oct  5 21:58:48 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:58:48 -0400
Subject: Absolultely confused...
Message-ID: <1128563928.3513.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>

So, here is my relevant code:

	PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)

And here ismy error message:

	argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d

I know PyType_vector3d "works" (as I can use them in the interpreter all
day long), and I know I'm passing a pylf.core.vector3d (well, apparently
not...)

I've spent hours and hours on this and I'm finally just giving up and
asking. I've tried everything to get my program to verify that arg1 is
really a PyType_vector3d, but to no avail.

If I take out the "!" in the format string and just use "O", I can at
least get past PyArg_ParseTuple. Then I try something like...

	PyObject_TypeCheck(arg1, &PyType_vector3d)

Which also fails, but I know for a fact that arg1's PyObject_Repr is
what it should be. (pylf.core.vector3d)

I guess my question is: what in the world could be causing this to fail?
It seems like I'm just not able to use ParseType or BuildValue to create
objects of my own type.

I know I haven't provided a lot of information, but does anyone have any
ideas or where I should start looking?



From python-url at phaseit.net  Tue Oct 25 22:08:03 2005
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:08:03 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 26)
Message-ID: <djmmjh$mus$1@lairds.us>

QOTW: "Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
of what's obvious and what isn't." -- Grant Edwards

"... windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they are
people too." -- James Stroud


    "The Widget Construction Kit (WCK) is an extension API that allows
    you to implement custom widgets in pure Python."  A typical recent
    enhancemennt is slightly more efficient anti-aliased drawing under
    Windows:
        http://online.effbot.org/2005_10_01_archive.htm#20051022     

    Mike Meyer and others demonstrate the paranoia and propensity to
    abstraction of the experienced when thinking about something as
    simple as replacement of one string for another:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/98f0d93332748af9/

    Similarly, Bengt Richter illustrates that "a month" is a far 
    more complicated idea than first appears:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/68b08f36ca516aa2/

    "The deadline for PyCon 2006 submissions is now only a week away."
        http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/cfp

    Is there a good way to manage Python installations on multiple
    (Windows) hosts?  There are several:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1343f89416f8f783/


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
    absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
    much of the universe of Pybloggers.
	http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
        http://www.planetpython.org/
        http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
    tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
    Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
    list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/ (requires subscription)
  http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=python-url+group:comp.lang.python*&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python
There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.


From jwkenne at attglobal.net  Sat Oct 15 23:08:27 2005
From: jwkenne at attglobal.net (John W. Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:08:27 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Nuj4f.28848$Ge5.24578@fe10.lga>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> "Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
> 
>>Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
>>If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be no 
>>other software manufacturers at all.
> 
> 
> This is wrong.  The dictionary definition of a monopoly is when a
> manufacturer has all or nearly all of a market.  Microsoft DOES have a
> monopoly on PC operating systems.
> 
> That, in itself, is not necessarily illegal.  However, Microsoft then USED
> that monopoly power to stifle their competition, and that IS illegal.
> 
> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about browser
> wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion dollar a year
> market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?

So they can disrupt standards and make it extremely difficult to create 
websites that work both with IE and with any non-Windows browser. The 
most blatant example is that, a full five years after XHTML came out, IE 
doesn't render it at all.

A few years ago, they did the same thing with browser plugins. IE used 
to support the same plugins that Netscape did. Then MS arbitrarily 
designed a new way of doing plugins that can only work with Windows (and 
which, incidentally, opens security holes), and removed support for 
standard plugins. As a result, plugin makers have to support two 
different plugins, or else choose between compatibility with IE and 
compatibility with everybody else.

The message -- "co-operate with us, or be punished".

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"...if you had to fall in love with someone who was evil, I can see why 
it was her."
   -- "Alias"


From gc_nospam2004-allerlei at yahoo.de  Fri Oct 28 07:49:20 2005
From: gc_nospam2004-allerlei at yahoo.de (Georg Christmann)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:49:20 +0200
Subject: x-plat gui development question Mac OS X
Message-ID: <djt380$a1a$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello everybody,

I have recently started tinkering about with Python.

If there are any Macintosh-based Python developers reading this 
newsgroup I would like to ask them one Macintosh-specific question:

If you want to write GUI scripts on the Mac, say with Tkinter, you need 
to invoke "pythonw" instead of "python" and use "#! /usr/bin/pythonw" 
for a shebang line in your saved scripts.
Of course, although a tiny problem, it is still less than welcome for 
cross-platform development.

As one obvious workaround, would it cause any problems if I would link 
"/usr/bin/python/" to "/usr/bin/pythonw" instead of "/usr/bin/python2.3" 
(in other words I would always be using "pythonw", even for non-GUI 
scripts) ?
So far I can't tell any difference in the interactive mode - invoking 
"pythonw" for non-GUI work seems to work just fine.
I am not sure though if there are any system processes, say during 
boot-up, that depend on "python" pointing to the original location, or 
if there could be problems with more complex code than "Hello world".

Any insights welcome

Georg


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  3 17:41:03 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:41:03 +0100
Subject: Python Debug Build
In-Reply-To: <20051003210217.88812.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051003210217.88812.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dhs8h9$3lf$3@sea.gmane.org>

Celine & Dave wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> What happens if I build Python with debug option
> (--with-pydebug)? Do I see any changes in my program
> output? What is --with-pydebug good for?
> 

It's used for debugging the Python interpreter itself.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 16:42:49 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:42:49 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <3sfarbFnt8bvU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sfarbFnt8bvU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1130532169.033398.155010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

unzip doesn't seem to work for me...



From webmaster at smallco.com  Sat Oct  8 11:53:59 2005
From: webmaster at smallco.com (Webmaster)
Date: Sat,  8 Oct 2005 11:53:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Automatic response to your mail (Error)
Message-ID: <m0807/13/04M59.0FE814F1AF@onyx.bcentralhost.com>

The automatic reply to this e-mail which you should have
received in response to your e-mail to webmaster at smallco.com has not been defined.

Please contact postmaster at smallco.com for assistance.


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct 13 16:56:36 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:56:36 -0500
Subject: extract PDF pages
In-Reply-To: <cEx3f.24108$wm3.2383@trnddc01>
References: <cEx3f.24108$wm3.2383@trnddc01>
Message-ID: <434ECA04.10604@websafe.com>

I've used ReportLab's PageCatcher.  It isn't free, but
I've gladly paid for the functionality it gives me.

Larry Bates

http://www.reportlab.com/pagecatcher_index.html


David Isaac wrote:
> While pdftk is awesome
> http://www.accesspdf.com/pdftk/
> I am looking for a Python solution.
> Just for PDF page extraction.
> Any hope?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan Isaac
> 
> 


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 15:34:35 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:34:35 -0400
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:

> PS: If my question is not clear, I am trying to "share" the form between the
> client and server.

Yes, your question is not clear. And this statement doesn't clarify
it. That you quoted the "share" shows you are probably aware of this,
if not consciously so.

> just as many sites out there allow you to modify existing data:
> 1) the server pops up a form with your data in it.
> 2) the client can modify it and submit.

This doesn't really help, either. The server can't "pop up" a form;
only the client can do that. All the server can do is send data to
the client.

The client can't modify data on the server. It can send data to the
server, but that arrives as *new* data. The server can use that to
replace old data, thus modifying that old data.

> I know this is a _basic_ question, sorry.

It's not clear it's a basic question, because it's not clear what
you're trying to do.

Try answering these questions:

Where do you expect the HTML to come from?
Where do you expect the data originally in the HTML form to come from?
Where do you expect the data the user inputs into the form to be stored?

      <mike


> Philippe
>
>
>
> Philippe C. Martin wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I am trying to change the data in a form field from python. The following
>> code does not crash but has no effect as if "form" is just a copy of the
>> original html form.
>> 
>> Must I recreate the form order to do that ?
>> 
>> My point is for the client to be able to re-read the modified data.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Philippe
>> #!/usr/bin/python
>> 
>> import cgi
>> import os
>> import sys
>> import logging
>> import cgi
>> sys.stderr = sys.stdout
>> print "Content-type: text/html\n"
>> try:
>>     form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>>     #logging.warning (form)
>>     
>> except:
>>     logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 1")
>> try:
>> 
>>     form['tosrv'].value = "TEST"
>> except:
>>     logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 2")
>>     pass
>> 
>>     <html>
>>     <body>
>>     <title>Smart Logon</title>
>>     <h1>Smart Logon</h1>
>>     <hr>
>>     <FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="/cgi-bin/scfbweb.py">
>>     <table>
>>     <TR><TD>
>>       <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="key" VALUE="process">
>>      TO SERVER:<BR>
>>       <INPUT  type=text NAME="tosrv" value="TO" size=60>
>>       <BR>
>>       FROM SERVER<BR>
>>       <INPUT type=text name="fromsrv" value="FROM" size=60>
>>       <P>
>>         <INPUT TYPE="SUBMIT" VALUE="START">
>> 
>>     </TD></TR></table>
>>         </FORM>
>> </body>
>> </html>
>

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 21:58:37 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 01:58:37 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>>
>>>> Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation.
>>>
>>> And the practical difference between the two is....
>>>
>>> That's right, nil.
>>
>> If you both read them as a collection of words, you're right.
>> However, as a
>> (freelance) programmer, things like this *do* make a difference to
>> me, and my customers.
> 
> That is, you assume that files claiming to contain XML documents may 
> actually contain some variant of XML, because that's only a
> recommendation, while files claiming to contain C++ are all
> ISO-conformant, because that's a standard?
> 
> If so, you've got things precisely backwards.  C++ compilers that
> contain extensions or are not quite compliant are everywhere. XML
> parsers that accept non-well-formed XML are, ASFAIK, non-existent. 

My goodness, re read that again please, and rethink what you really want 
to say. I mean "claiming to contain C++". Is that like: all files 
claiming to contain HTML are automatically conforming to the ISO HTML 
standard?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From gordonb.u09l7 at burditt.org  Tue Oct  4 13:57:13 2005
From: gordonb.u09l7 at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:57:13 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>

>>I think e-mail should be text only. 
>
>I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
>HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.
>
>But HTML is not the problem!

HTML enables a heck of a lot of problems:  "web bugs" in email,
links to fake sites that appear as real ones in what shows up
on the screen, Javascript viruses, denial-of-service attacks
(pages that open two windows when you close one), etc.

>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.

I liken it more to hating all viruses because some of them 
install keyloggers.

						Gordon L. Burditt


From erniedude at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 10:44:54 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 07:44:54 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <kfCdndBA0_BuX8PenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
	<1130272231.210978.316140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<kfCdndBA0_BuX8PenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130337893.983691.185780@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Peter Hansen wrote:
>
> Google found the following (after I read the docs for subprocess and
> learned about the "startupinfo" flag, and searched for "subprocess
> startupinfo").  Does this help?
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/409002
> 
> -Peter

Thanks Peter!  That's exactly what I need.



From david at jotax.com  Wed Oct 26 09:17:15 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 06:17:15 -0700
Subject: How do I access the property info in this example ?
Message-ID: <1130332635.319629.91900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

How do I access the property information in this example ?

class C(object):
    def getx(self): return self.__x
    def setx(self, value): self.__x = value
    def delx(self): del self.__x
    x = property(getx, setx, delx, "I'm the 'x' property.")

I would like to get at ...

"I'm the 'x' property."

... if at all possible.

TIA



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 17 18:28:34 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:28:34 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support and 
> what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both irrelevant. 

Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser. In which
case standards and recommendations are the only things that are
relevant.

Pages on the internet written for a specific browser are part of the
harm that NS did the community when the ignored the standards process
in favor of proprietary extensions.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 01:03:08 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:03:08 -0700
Subject: Problem splitting a string
In-Reply-To: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <diq2id$47t$1@sea.gmane.org>

Anthony Liu wrote:
> I have this simple string:
> 
> mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
> 
> I want to split it and give me a list as
> 
> ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

> I think the documentation does say that the
> separator/delimiter can be a string representing all
> delimiters we want to use.

No, it doesn't.

In [1]: str.split?
Type:           method_descriptor
Base Class:     <type 'method_descriptor'>
String Form:    <method 'split' of 'str' objects>
Namespace:      Python builtin
Docstring:
    S.split([sep [,maxsplit]]) -> list of strings

    Return a list of the words in the string S, using sep as the
    delimiter string.  If maxsplit is given, at most maxsplit
    splits are done. If sep is not specified or is None, any
    whitespace string is a separator.

> I do I split the string by using both ' ' and '_' as
> the delimiters at once?

You could use regular expressions as Jason Stitt mentions, or you could
replace '_' with ' ' and then split.

In [2]: mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'

In [3]: mystr.replace('_', ' ').split()
Out[3]: ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 20 13:57:41 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:57:41 +0200
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<20051020172527.GC27602@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <dj8lqm$j56$1@sea.gmane.org>

Micah Elliott wrote:

> And the regex is comparatively slow, though I'm not confident this one
> is optimally written:
>
>     $ python -mtimeit -s'import re' '
>       re.sub(r"^(\w*)", r"/\1/", "a b c")'
>     10000 loops, best of 3: 44.1 usec per loop

the above has to look the pattern up in the compilation cache for each loop,
and it also has to parse the template string.  precompiling the pattern and
using a callback instead of a template string can speed things up somewhat:

timeit -s"import re; sub = re.compile(r'^(\w*)').sub"
    "sub(lambda x: '/%s/' % x.groups(), 'a b c')"

(but the replace solutions should be faster anyway; it's not free to prepare
for a RE match, and sub uses the same split/join implementation as replace...)

</F>





From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Mon Oct 10 10:56:30 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rbt)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:56:30 -0400
Subject: socketServer questions
In-Reply-To: <7xzmph77lo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128774994.14078.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xu0frogwj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128948284.15030.7.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7x4q7po7l2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128953995.15590.19.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xzmph77lo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128956190.18652.1.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>

On Mon, 2005-10-10 at 07:46 -0700, Paul Rubinhttp: wrote:
> rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> > > Instead, for client #i, let that client's key be something like
> > >   hmac(your_big_secret, str(i)).digest()
> > > and the client would send #i as part of the string.
> > 
> > How is this different from sending a pre-defined string from the client
> > that the server knows the md5 hash of? The clients know the string, the
> > server knows the hash of that string.
> 
> I'm confused, I don't understand what that md5 whatever would do for you.
> I'm assuming the server is secure and the clients are less secure.
> 
> > Also, could this not be done both ways? So that, if an attacker figures
> > out the string he's supposed to send from a client to the server (which
> > he could easily do). He could not easily figure out the string the
> > server should send back as all he would have is the hash of that string.
> 
> I'm still confused

OK, we'll leave it at that and just accept that we're from different
planets ;) Thanks for the help.



From http  Mon Oct 17 19:08:47 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 16:08:47 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<dj0jtg$fj6$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1h4lfof.1jirgzd1rpwucsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7xoe5nivwg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> implementation of the components one's considering!  Rough ideas of
> *EXPECTED* run-times (big-Theta) for various subcomponents one is
> sketching are *MUCH* more interesting and important than "asymptotic 
> worst-case for amounts of input tending to infinity" (big-O) -- for

I thought big-Theta meant the intersection of big-O (upper bound on
the worst case) and big-Omega (lower bound on the worst case).

> example, where I sketch-in (mentally, on paper, or on whiteboard) a
> "hash table" subcomponent, I consider the *expected* (Theta) performance
> (constant-time lookups), definitely NOT the big-O "linear time" lookups
> which just MIGHT occur (if, say, all inputs just happened to hash to the
> same value)... otherwise, I'd never use hash tables, right?-)

You really have to be careful about choices like that.  See:

   http://www.cs.rice.edu/~scrosby/hash/

which I also cited last night.  

Exercise: suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that 1) Google
search works by spidering the web and building a giant hash table of
words that it finds in web pages, to use for servicing future queries;
2) The hash function is similiar to the one used in Python dicts and
is either public knowledge or else leaks out of the company somehow;
and 3) (biggest disbelief suspension of them all) I work for
Microsoft.  Question: how could I use knowledge of the hash function
to give Google a hard time?

At least one well known implementer apparently does intend to quit
using hash tables due to considerations like this:

   http://cr.yp.to/critbit.html


From brian at sweetapp.com  Fri Oct  7 04:28:27 2005
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:28:27 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xu0fucuhi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1601.1128599433.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fucuhi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <434631AB.5060804@sweetapp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> 
>>Without a clear idea of the nature of the proposal, it is impossible
>>to assess it's costs and benefits. So could a proponent of optional
>>declarations please provide a more clear proposal?
> 
> 
> There is no proposal on the table.  There's a discussion of how this
> stuff can work, and whether it's useful.  As for how the compiler
> deals with imported modules, see for example Common Lisp or Haskell or
> ML--how do they do it?

Except that you are providing neither useful input on how it could work 
nor on whether it would be useful. All you are doing is telling people 
to do research on other languages (that resumably do things in a way 
more to your liking).

In conclusion, this thread is unlikely to make any useful progress.

Cheers,
Brian


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 28 14:56:39 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:56:39 -0400
Subject: Opaque documentation
References: <mailman.2676.1130512412.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130513632.359922.113550@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86wtjxeahk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Ben Sizer" <kylotan at gmail.com> writes:
> Documentation is often a problem with Python and its libraries, sadly.
> The same almost certainly goes for most open source projects.

You over-specified the last clause.  It should say "most software
projects."

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 08:27:12 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:27:12 +0200
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
References: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di3570$3a5$1@sea.gmane.org>

"k8" wrote:

> I'm stuck on a Windows machine today and would love to fully play with
> and test a simple python script.  I want to be able to type "python
> myscript myarg" somewhere.  Is there anything out there to help me?

footnote: if you'd prefer to type "myscript myarg" instead, you might want
to check out this tool:

    http://effbot.org/zone/exemaker.htm

</F> 





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 12:00:25 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 18:00:25 +0200
Subject: users of pycurl here?
References: <1128698989.351313.90070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di662r$clp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> I am having a hard time in finding out how to retrieve information
> about the *size* of files I want to download from an FTP site. Should I
> send a QUOTE SIZE command to the ftp server or is there an easier way?

SIZE isn't a standard FTP command, so that only works for some servers.

if you want your code to work for a wider range of servers, you need to
parse the output from the LIST command:

    http://cr.yp.to/ftp/list.html

here's a robust parser for various LIST output formats:

    http://cr.yp.to/ftpparse.html

(google for "ftpparse" to find python bindings for that module)

</F>





From xah at xahlee.org  Thu Oct 20 06:47:24 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 03:47:24 -0700
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: one-liner loop Functional Style
Message-ID: <1129805244.523066.84450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

One-Liner Loop in Functional Style

Xah Lee, 200510

Today we show a example of a loop done as a one-liner of Functional
Programing style.

Suppose you have a list of file full paths of images:

/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2059m-s.jpg
/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2062m-s.jpg
/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2097m-s.jpg
/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2099m-s.jpg
/Users/t/Icons_dir/icon_sum.gif

For those ending with -s (indicate a smaller version), you want to
change it to the full version without the -s, if it exists. Here's the
code:

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
# python

import re, os.path

imgPaths=[u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2059m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2062m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2097m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2099m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Icons_dir/icon_sum.gif']


# change the image path to the full sized image, if it exists
# that is, if image ends in -s.jpg, find one without the '-s'.
imgPaths2=[]
for myPath in imgPaths:
    p=myPath
    (dirName, fileName) = os.path.split(myPath)
    (fileBaseName, fileExtension)=os.path.splitext(fileName)
    if(fileBaseName[-2:] == '-s'):
        p2=os.path.join(dirName,fileBaseName[0:-2]) + fileExtension
        if os.path.exists(p2): p=p2
    imgPaths2.append(p)

print imgPaths2

But how do you do it in a functional programing style? Namely,
something of the from imgPath2=f(imgPath), where the f is some
function. Normally, the f would be a pure function construct made up on
the spot, that is, lambda. But Python's lambda is limited to only a
expression as its body. Nevertheless, one can achieve a functional
style with some workaround, using map twice. Here's the code:

imgPaths3 = map( lambda x: os.path.exists(x[1]) and x[1] or x[0], \
map(lambda x: (x, re.sub( r"^(.+?)-s(\.[^.]+)$",r"\1\2", x)),
imgPaths))

The first map:

newList = map(lambda x: (x, re.sub( r"^(.+?)-s(\.[^.]+)$",r"\1\2", x)),
imgPaths)

generate a list of pairs (x, y), where x is the same element in
imgPaths, and y is one without the -s. Then, a second map:

map( lambda x: os.path.exists(x[1]) and x[1] or x[0], newList,
imgPaths))

checks if the path y exists, if so, use that, else, use the x part. The
function body is essentially of a conditional EXPRESSION, of the from
(test, if true return result1, else return result2). This form of a
test that returns a expression is very important in functional
programing. Because, in functional programing a common pattern is to
sequence functions and passing values. One cannot stop in the middle
and use a block structure. Here's how this form's syntax in several
languages:

test? trueExpression: falseExpression          (C, Perl)
If[test, trueExpression, falseExpression]      (Mathematica)
(test trueExpression falseExpression)          (LISP)

In Python, there's no such form for this, but a semantically equivalent
workaround is to sequence boolean expressions as used in our example.
Namely:

test and trueExpression or falseExpression          (Python)

This works because it exploits a particular behavior of how Python
treats boolean sequences. In Python, ?x and y? returns y if x is
true. And, ?x or y? returns x if x is true. This behavior is
compatible with the mathematical sense of booleans. For example,
mathematically ?x and y? should be true if both are true, yet in
Python if x is true then y is returned, and if y is true then this is
compatible with the math sense, but if y is false then the whole result
is also false, so it also satisfies the math sense. Similar is the case
of ?x or y?. The point here is that one of the element is returned,
instead of a real True or False value. Therefore, in a twisted way this
can be used for the If[test, trueExpression, falseExpression] form.
Example.

result1= True and 4 or 5    # returns 4
result2= False and 4 or 5   # returns 5

print result1
print result2

Such language behavior is a result of the laziness of the compiler
implementation, particular seen in unix shells (&& and ||). The problem
with this design is that codes relying on the the returned element of a
boolean sequence does not clearly indicate the programer's intention.
It works by language pecularities, instead of expressed program logic.

For the official doc on evaluating booleans, see:
http://python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/boolean.html

Here's the Perl code of the same loop block:

# perl
use File::Basename;

@imgPaths=(
'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2059m-s.jpg',
'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2062m-s.jpg',
'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2097m-s.jpg',
'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2099m-s.jpg',
'/Users/t/web/Icons_dir/icon_sum.gif');

# change the image path to the full sized image, if it exists
# that is, if image ends in -s.jpg, find one without the '-s'.
$imgPaths2=();
for $myPath (@imgPaths){
    $p=$myPath;
    ($fileBaseName, $dirName, $fileExtension) = fileparse($myPath,
('\.[^.]+$') );
    if (substr($fileBaseName,-2,2) eq '-s') {
        $p2= $dirName . '/' .
substr($fileBaseName,0,length($fileBaseName)-2) . $fileExtension;
        print $p2, "\n";
        if (-e $p2) { $p=$p2}
    }
    push(@imgPaths2,$p);
}

use Data::Dumper;
print Dumper(\@imgPaths2)

In Perl, this can be written in a functional style one-liner:

@imgPaths3= map{
    $y = $_;
    $y =~ s/^(.+?)-s(\.[^.]+)$/$1$2/;
    -e $y ? $y : $_;
    } @imgPaths;

For the official doc of Perl's map, type in command line: ?perldoc -f
map?
------
this article is archived at:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/one-liner_loop.html

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From jstephens at friendfinderinc.com  Mon Oct 17 14:10:15 2005
From: jstephens at friendfinderinc.com (Jon Stephens)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:10:15 -0700
Subject: Huge performance gain compared to perl while loading a text file in a
	list ...!?
Message-ID: <20051017181020.138FE1E4002@bag.python.org>

I happened to stumble across this.  I'll admit now that I've never touched
python.  But I was curious of your example.  Does python maintain the file
handle?  I don't see any explicit handling of the file like in your perl
script.  Since if you are opening and then maintaining a file handle in the
python script it will of course stomp your perl script.  Mainly because you
put the OPEN and CLOSE inside of the loop.  So it's constantly opening and
closing the file handle.  I've never seen anyone do that before, and I hope
I never see it again.  It should have looked like this:

 

#!/usr/bin/perl
 
open(DATA, "data.test");
for ($i = 0; $i < 20; $i++) {
    @Data = <DATA>;
}
close(DATA);

 

 

When I did a quick test with a 3MB file I had in my directory I got these
results by changing the perl script.

 

 

My test script:

 

      1 #!/usr/bin/perl

      2

      3 open DATA,"<export_data.txt";

      4 for (my $i = 0; $i < 20; $i++) {

      5     my @data = <DATA>;

      6 }

      7 close DATA;

      8

      9 1;

 

 

With the open/close outside of the loop.

[jstephens at pe66 (11:05:35) ~]$ time ./test.pl

 

real    0m1.293s

user    0m0.071s

sys     0m0.036s

 

With the open/close inside of the loop

[jstephens at pe66 (11:06:56) ~]$ time ./test.pl

 

real    0m1.854s

user    0m1.612s

sys     0m0.114s

 

 

 

So using a poorly written perl script for a performance comparison isn't
really fair.  If you fix your perl script I'm sure you'll see drastic
performance increases.

 

Jon

-------------- next part --------------
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct 18 15:59:28 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 12:59:28 -0700
Subject: Question on class member in python
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1129613041.473285.84800@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4mjg9.1n5khr7pjy1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dj3k70$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <1h4mjg9.1n5khr7pjy1zN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
>   ...
>> Thanks for your help, maybe I should learn how to turn an attibute into
>> a property first.
>
>Easy -- in your class's body, just code:
>
>  def getFoo(self): ...
>  def setFoo(self, value): ...
>  def delFoo(self): ...
>  foo = property(getFoo, setFoo, delFoo, 'this is the foo')
>
>
>Note that if you want subclasses to be able to customize behavior of foo
>accesses by simple method overrides, you need to program some "hooks"
>(an extra level of indirection, if you will).

Or wait for

    foo = property('getFoo', 'setFoo')

(Currently proposed by Guido on python-dev)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur."  --Red Adair


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Oct  2 15:20:55 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:20:55 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4.2 (final)
In-Reply-To: <W8udnUTDOpStj6PeRVn-tA@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1077.1127911373.509.python-list@python.org>	<mMqdnWXS-4IGEaHeRVn-qQ@comcast.com>	<mailman.1213.1128045988.509.python-list@python.org>	<433CCF02.6060005@v.loewis.de>	<dtSdnTZjX91jv6DeRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.1291.1128099985.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433DB7BC.6090002@v.loewis.de> <W8udnUTDOpStj6PeRVn-tA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <43403317$0$13961$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bugs wrote:
> - I had an old ActiveState python24.dll in \windows\system32 which I
> deleted.  That must've been left over from a 2.4.1 ActiveState
> installation which I had installed then uninstalled sometime ago.
> 
> - I then uninstalled Python 2.4.2 and re-installed it for "all" users.
> After that everything seemed to work properly.

That is somewhat mysterious...

> I'm not sure where the Python 2.4.2 installation put it's python24.dll?

It depends on whether this is a "for all" installation, or a "just for
me" installation. In the "for all" installation, it goes to
\windows\system32. In the "just for me" installation, it goes to
c:\python24 (ie. the directory where python.exe is). The rationale
is that a non-admin user might not have enough permissions to
write to system32.

> Please let me know if you need additional details.

It would be good if you could recall what mode the original 2.4.2
installation had. If it was "just for me", then you might have
installed the 2.4.2 version of python24.dll into the python directory.
Still, it is then puzzling why it would have used the version in
system32, as the application's (i.e. python.exe) directory should
be searched first.

For the record, please also report what operating system you
were using.

The other theory is that the 2.4.2 installer failed to overwrite
the ActivePython version. This should not have happened, though,
since the installer should have noticed that the 2.4.2 version
is newer than the 2.4.1 one (and indeed, in a test installation,
it did so correctly).

It is probably too late to recreate all details, so we should
just watch whether it happens again.

Regards,
Martin


From 700MHz at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 02:29:38 2005
From: 700MHz at gmail.com (700MHz)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 23:29:38 -0700
Subject: a simple question about the third index in slice
Message-ID: <1129876178.607754.120750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I cannot quite understand when the third index is a negative
number,like this:
a = '0123456789'
a[1:10:2] I know the index step is 2, so it will collect items from
offset 1, 3, 5, 7, 9
but when a negative number come,like:
a[1::-1] answer '10', and a[1:10:-1] only answer '',
what is the different between the two expression, where does the offset

begin and what is the end offset? 
Thanks!



From juho.schultz at helsinki.fi  Fri Oct  7 07:16:37 2005
From: juho.schultz at helsinki.fi (Juho Schultz)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:16:37 +0300
Subject: recursive function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1671.1128683058.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<Ge-dnXvNWpFI1t3eRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.1671.1128683058.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di5lel$no0$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

mg wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> In a recursive function like the following :
> 
> 
> def foo( j ) :
>  j += 1
>  while j < n : j = foo( j )
>  return j
> 
> 
> in found that the recursivity is limited (1000 iterations). Then, I have 
> two questions :
> - why this mecanism has been implemented ?
> - it is possible to increase or remove (and how) the number of iterations ?
> 
> Regards,
> Mathieu

Try the following for answers to both questions:

import sys
print sys.setrecursionlimit.__doc__

I guess 1000 is the default value.


From luizgeron at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 09:15:17 2005
From: luizgeron at gmail.com (Luiz Geron)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:15:17 -0700
Subject: PDO and database abstraction
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2541.1130244273.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130240852.794081.158320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435E2313.3090504@ghaering.de>
	<mailman.2541.1130244273.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130246117.103331.61170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

This is one example where I need to use such abstraction:
I have a dictionary with the fields and values to be inserted into the
database, with a code like this:

dic = {'field1' : 1, 'field2' : 2} #this dict comes from a Cherrypy
request
cur.execute('update table set field_one = :value1, field2 = :value2' ,
dic)

and I want to use it even with kinterbasdb, wich does not support named
paramstyle. The problem with your use of % is that the db module does
not automatically put '' in varchar fields, and so on. This is what PDO
does, or say that does. I think that I should make a wrapper that
simply swap :var to ? when the db paramstyle is qmark, and so on. Is
this correct?



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 13 19:42:49 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:42:49 -0400
Subject: FORM data in cgi
References: <rCv3f.2387$nE2.2051@fe03.lga>
Message-ID: <864q7lugp2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"jponiato" <jponiato at chartermi.nojunk> writes:

> Greetings.
> An HTML form submits it's data to a python cgi script on my server. This script accepts this POST data, and uses urllib.urlopen() to call a different cgi script (on an external server), passing this same data. I'm using cgi.FieldStorage() to create a mapping of the FORM data, then using urllib.urlencode() to turn it back into form data for urlopen().
> Question - is there a more efficient way to do this?

Yes. But the question you should be asking is "Is there an easier way
to do it that's worth doing?"

Unless you're passing around files, or really huge forms, the amount
of time you spend doing decoding and encodinng the form data will be
pretty trivial. Unless you're really pressed for cycles, why bother
fixing it? And if you're really pressed for cycles, you should start
by instrumenting things to make sure that you're optimizing something
that will do you some good.

Anyway, the general idea is to skip cgi.FieldStorage, and parse the
request yourself. You'll have to deal with the headers. But you can
just grab the post data with a read(). I'm not sure you can use urllib
to send pre-encoded POST data; you'll have to check that yourself. If
not, you'll have to do the HTTP request processing by yourself. That's
not hard, though.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 10 21:40:51 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:40:51 -0400
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <slrndkkjg4.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndkkasd.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<434A2F31.6010507@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndkkjg4.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <temdnYth4b2IhdbeRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Ville Voipio wrote:
> I am not building a redundant system with independent
> instruments voting. At this point I am trying to minimize
> the false alarms. This is why I want to know if Python
> is reliable enough to be used in this application.
> 
> By the postings I have seen in this thread it seems that
> the answer is positive. At least if I do not try 
> apply any adventorous programming techniques.

We built a system with similar requirements using an older version of 
Python (either 2.0 or 2.1 I believe).  A number of systems were shipped 
and operate without problems.  We did have a memory leak issue in an 
early version and spent ages debugging it (and actually implemented the 
suggested "reboot when necessary feature" as a stop-gap measure at one 
point), before finally discovering it.  (Then, knowing what to search 
for, we quickly found that the problem had been fixed in CVS for the 
Python version we were using, and actually released in the subsequent 
major revision.  (The leak involved extending empty lists, or extending 
lists with empty lists, as I recall.)

Other than that, we had no real issues and definitely felt the choice of 
Python was completely justified.  I have no hesitation recommending it, 
other than to caution (as I believe Paul R did) that use of new features 
is "dangerous" in that they won't have as wide usage and shouldn't 
always be considered "proven" in long-term field use, by definition.

Another suggestion would be to carefully avoid cyclic references (if the 
app is simple enough for this to be feasible), allowing you to rely on 
reference-counting for garbage collection and the resultant "more 
deterministic" behaviour.

Also test heavily.  We were using test-driven development and had 
effectively thousands of hours of run-time by the time the first system 
shipped, so we had great confidence in it.

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 08:52:50 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:52:50 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <bvmck1hab4go0atva6q9csnr3dp6eg7qdq@4ax.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<bvmck1hab4go0atva6q9csnr3dp6eg7qdq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <di5r2o$u1h$1@sea.gmane.org>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> [Steve]
> 
>>and yes, I split that infinitive just to 
>>annoy any pedants who may be reading
> 
> 
> [Steven]
> 
>>*Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the
>>grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are
>>impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid
>>them in English.
> 
> 
> Your previous post to this thread was chock-full of split nominatives: "The
> Hollywood voice", "the specific regional accent", "the English-speaking
> world", "the original French".  And you call yourself a grammarian.
> 
I am presuming this post was meant to be a joke? No smileys, though, so 
you force us to make up our own minds.

Or is "the green tomato" also unacceptable?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 16:05:00 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:05:00 GMT
Subject: Tricky import question.
References: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e8530.945320799@news.oz.net>

On 25 Oct 2005 06:39:15 -0700, "David Poundall" <david at jotax.com> wrote:

>importedfiles = {}
>for f in FileList
>  f2 = f.split('.')[0]       # strip the .py, .pyc
   importedfiles[f2] = __import__(f2).main
   # it sounds like all you want is the above (untested ;-), or
   # use __import__(f2).main() if you actually want the _result_ returned by main

Either way, you don't need the following
>  __import__(f2)
>  s2 = f2+'.main()'          # main is the top file in each import
>  c = compile(s2, '', 'eval')
>  importedfiles[f2] =  eval(c)
>
>'importedfiles' should hold an object reference to the main() function
>within each imported file.
Do you want a reference to the function, or the result of calling the function?
If you want a reference to the function itself, you should leave off the () after main,
otherwise you will execute the function.

>
>The problem is, the import function works but I can't get the object
>reference into the imortedfiles dictionary object.  the code keeps
>telling me
>
>NameError: name 'C1_Dosing' is not defined.
probably your first file is C1_Dosing.py (or some other extension after the '.')
so f2 becomes 'C1_Dosing' and s2 becomes 'C1_Dosing.main()' and you compile that
into code bound to c, and when you try to eval(c), it tries to find C1_Dosing in
the current environment, et voila! you have the error.

When confronted with mysteries such as presented by your code results, I suggest
you intruduce print statements to verify what you are assuming about what it is doing.
E.g., you could print repr(f2) after assignment, and after the __import__ if you thought
it was going to do something to f2 in the local name space, and repr(s2) after the assignment,
etc. to see if I guessed right. Or a quick line to clone for a snapshot of local varibles
at different points might be (untested)
    print '\n'.join('%15s: %s'%(k, repr(v)[:60]) for k,v in sorted(locals().items()))

>
>in this instance C1_Dosing is the first file name in the filelist.  The
>import worked, why not the compile ??
I think the compile did work. But your code didn't produce a binding for the name
'C1_Dosing' which the code c was looking for when eval(c) was called. If you wanted to
make your code work, perhaps replacing (untested)
    __import__(f2)
with
    exec '%s = __import__(f2)'%f2  # bind imported module to name specified by f2 string
might have got by the error in eval (c), but I suspect you would want to leave the () off
the .main in any case. And why go through all that rigamarole?

>
>TIA.
>
Try it both ways and report back what you found out ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From vel.accel at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 13:34:42 2005
From: vel.accel at gmail.com (D.Hering)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 10:34:42 -0700
Subject: morphological image processing in Python
In-Reply-To: <1128355854.416660.215260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <slrndk2fm5.cck.alf@localhost.localdomain>
	<1128355854.416660.215260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128360882.552198.45570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Take a look at ADaM and it's python wrappers:

http://datamining.itsc.uah.edu/adam/documentation.html



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 06:27:50 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:27:50 +0200
Subject: assignment to reference
References: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <djnln7$p6h$1@sea.gmane.org>

Loris Caren wrote:

> a = 'apple'
> b = 'banana'
> c = 'cabbage'
>
> How can I get something like:-
>
> for i in 'abc':
>     r = eval(i)
>     if r == 'cabbage': r = 'coconut'
>
> actually change the object referenced by r rather
> than creating a new object temporarily referenced by it?

if you need a container, you should use a container object instead of
the local namespace.  in this case, a dictionary is what you want:

    stuff = {
        'a': 'apple',
        'b': 'banana',
        'c': 'cabbage'
    }

    for i in "abc":
        if stuff[i] == "cabbage":
            stuff[i] = "coconut"

(tweak as necessary)

</F>





From brussel at insightbb.com  Wed Oct 12 23:21:47 2005
From: brussel at insightbb.com (brussel13)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:21:47 -0000
Subject: setup.py dll linking
Message-ID: <dikjsb+6fs4@eGroups.com>

Hi,
I'd like to link a dll/pyd against another which was
compiled by a distutils script and mingw32, winxp obviously.
there aren't any symbols in the symbol table of the
first pyd.  i removed the -s which distutils sends to mingw32
but that only made symbols appear with nm.  pexports still
reports only __init__.  mingw still complains that the functions
in the first dll can't be found when compiling the second.


ross






From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 19:07:39 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:07:39 +0100
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <djmdrq$dq9$2@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:09:29 -0400, Christopher Subich wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>By analogy, one can ask, "is the cat inside the box?" and get the answer
>>>>"No", but this does not imply that therefore the box must be inside the
>>>>cat.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bad analogy, this doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset
>>>relationship does.
>>
>>Yes, it does.  Consider "in" as a mathematical operator:
>>
>>For the set (box, cat-in-box)
>>
>>box in box: False
>>box in cat-in-box: False
>>cat-in-box in box: True
>>cat-in-box in cat-in-box: False
>>
>>For the set (box, smart-cat) # cat's too smart to get in the box
>>
>>box in box: False
>>box in smart-cat: False
>>smart-cat in box: False
>>smart-cat in smart-cat: False
>>
>>In both these cases, the "in" operator is irreflexive, asymmetric, and 
>>transitive (extend to mouse-in-cat if you really care about transitive), 
>>so "in" is a partial order sans equality.  A useless one, but a partial 
>>order nonetheless.
> 
> 
> What do you mean "in" is a useless ordering? It makes a huge difference
> whether "nuclear bomb in New York" is true or not.
> 
> In fact, I'm quite surprised that Antoon should object to "in" as "this
> doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset relationship does" when
> "subset" is just "in" for sets: set S is a subset of set T if for all
> elements x in S, x is also in T. Informally, subset S is in set T.
> 
> Can somebody remind me, what is the problem Antoon is trying to solve here?
> 
> 
Being Belgian, I suspect.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From shkelley at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 07:44:23 2005
From: shkelley at gmail.com (shkelley at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 04:44:23 -0700
Subject: pushing python to multiple windows machines
Message-ID: <1129895063.490493.26360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am working on a project that requires python to be installed on a
large number of windows servers and was wondering if anyone has found a
method to do this.  I found the article from 2003, but nobody ever
stated that they have found an option for this.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/f42f0813bc271995?tvc=1&q=%22Pushing+Python+to+Windows+workstations%22

-shawn



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct 10 18:50:10 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:50:10 -0500
Subject: Changing console text color
In-Reply-To: <dieoe2$8o3$1@news.netins.net>
References: <dieoe2$8o3$1@news.netins.net>
Message-ID: <434AF022.5050100@websafe.com>

You can use this module to control console windows background and text colors.

http://www.effbot.org/zone/console-index.htm

-Larry Bates

Steve M wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>         I've been trying to change the text color on a windows console
> program I've been working on with no luck. I should mention that I'm
> a novice so please dummy up your replies.
> 
> Thanks-in-Advance
> Steve


From frank at chagford.com  Tue Oct 11 03:30:44 2005
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:30:44 -0700
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <didmcq$v69$1@online.de>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didmcq$v69$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <1129015844.347274.145840@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Benjamin Niemann wrote:
> Frank Millman wrote:
>
> > I will try to explain my experience with popen() briefly.
> >
> > I run through all the scripts and create a StringIO object with the
> > string I want to pass. It is about 250 000 bytes long. If I run psql
> > using popen(), and pass it the string via stdin, it works fine, but I
> > get all the messages on the screen. If I do the same, but end the
> > command with ' > fjm 2>&1' it works correctly and the messages end up
> > in the file fjm, which is about 40 000 bytes long. If I run it with
> > popen4(), it starts ok, but then hangs about 1/4 of the way through.
> > Exactly the same happens on MSW. It seems to be hitting a limit on the
> > size of the stdout file - is that possible?
> >
>
> That's probably a deadlock as described in
> <http://docs.python.org/lib/popen2-flow-control.html>
>

Thanks for this pointer. I have read it, but I don't think it applies
to my situation, as it talks about 'reading' from the child's stdout
while the child is 'writing' to stderr. I am not doing that, or at
least not consciously. Here is a code snippet. 's' is a StringIO object
that contains my input. It is about 6000 lines/250000 bytes long.

-------------

sql_stdin,sql_stdout = os.popen4('psql -U %s -d %s' % (user,database))

sql_stdin.writelines(s.readlines())
s.close()
sql_stdin.close()

-------------

It starts, and then hangs, after processing about 6% of my input.

If I add ' > fjm 2>&1' to the command, it works, so it is definitely
connected with the child writing to stdout/stderr.

I tried storing my input in a list, and passing ''.join(s), but it had
the same result. I also looped over the list and wrote one line at a
time to sql_stdin - same result.

I can work around this, so a solution is not critical. However, it
would be nice to know if this is a limitation of popen4(), or if I am
doing something wrong.

> > BTW, is there an equivalent of /dev/null on MSW?
>
> Dunno - but as a last resort, you could create a tempfile with a unique name
> (to be sure, not to override any existing data), dump your output there and
> later os.unlink() it...
>

A quick google revealed the answer - there is a device called NUL which
achieves the same purpose.

Thanks

Frank



From ddelay at club-internet.fr  Sun Oct  9 06:52:17 2005
From: ddelay at club-internet.fr (daniel delay)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:52:17 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4348f644$0$644$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Fredrik Lundh a ?crit :
> ddelay at club-internet.fr wrote:
> 
> 
>>These 3 intermediate variables used to improve readability
>>can introduce bugs : you have to check that b, c and d are
>>not used anywhere else in the code.
> 
> 
> if you have a fear of introducing new local variables, you have problems
> that cannot be solved by syntax.
> 
> </F>
> 

Before to introduce a new variable named "x", you have to take care of 
the fact the name "x" is not defined elsewhere and visible in the 
present scope. It is not a fear, but something you must keep in mind, 
otherwise it can be a source of errors.

If you have a syntax in which you use less variables names to do the 
same thing, with the same (or better?) readability, that seems better 
for me.


From http  Mon Oct 10 18:12:26 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 15:12:26 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128976311.779178.304900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xpsqdhvhx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
> Hi. I found TSL, a Python Library that supports SRP.
> Do you know where can I find a sample client and server code? Thanks
> for your help.

I don't know about TSL, but TLSLite (www.trevp.net/tlslite) supports SRP.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 04:10:01 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:10:01 +0200
Subject: os.access with wildcards
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com><mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org><1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128698792.787399.160460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><86psqhnrx4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org><1128727042.273430.64640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><m2fyrc51c5.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<1128732066.947274.206270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di7usq$lar$1@sea.gmane.org>

> > if glob.glob(...): ...
>
> As for your possible solutions, if you consider any
> of yours to be "readable", then i have no interest in
> coding with you.

> > if glob.glob(...): ...
>
> I guess, for readability, nothing has come up that
> seems _great_.

> > if glob.glob(...): ...
>
> It works, it's elegant, and it uses python strengths.

cute. I guess this thread shows that python can grow on you.

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 15:13:56 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:13:56 +0100
Subject: gprof results
In-Reply-To: <20051017183520.50722.qmail@web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051017183520.50722.qmail@web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dj0t5l$u62$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dave wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I googled to find an answer for my question, but had
> no luck. I'm trying to profile a Python program using
> gprof, but I don't understand what _moncount and
> mcount are. I couldn't find their source code under
> Python source tree. moncount takes about 30% of my
> program... What are _moncount and mcount for? Are they
> functions or variables? Any ideas?
> 
> Thank you for your help! 

Do you realise that you won't get any useful information about the 
Python program using gprof? That will give you information about the 
performance of the python interpreter itself, somewhat unrelated to the 
Python program it's running.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 20:37:16 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:37:16 -0700
Subject: how to count and extract images
References: <pan.2005.10.23.23.51.26.381272@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <1h4wb7v.1r2ecoz1sur1ldN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Joe <dinamo99 at lycos.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to get the location of the image uisng 
> 
> start = s.find('<a href="somefile') + len('<a
> href="somefile') 
> stop = s.find('">Save File</a></B>',
> start) fileName = s[start:stop]
> and then construct the url with the filename to download the image 
> which works fine as cause every image has the Save File link and I can
> count number of images easy the problem is when there is more than image I
> try using while loop downlaod files, wirks fine for the first one but
> always matches the same, how can count and thell the look to skip the fist
> one if it has been downloaded and go to next one, and if next one is
> downloaded go to next one, and so on.

Pass the index from where the search must start as the second argument
to the s.find method -- you're already doing that for the second call,
so it should be pretty obvious it will also work for the first one, no?


Alex


From uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com  Thu Oct 27 05:44:34 2005
From: uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com (uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 02:44:34 -0700
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <PKSdnaDh3tTOkv3eRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Luidnc2OvoJ9u8PeRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130311678.936969.302020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<PKSdnaDh3tTOkv3eRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130406274.356454.141040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi,,thanks for the tip. I'*m still stuck, but that link got me past the
problem with the unknow encoding.

I now get this traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "App1.py", line 23, in ?
  File "App1.py", line 19, in main
  File "wx\_core.pyc", line 5691, in __init__
  File "wx\_core.pyc", line 5343, in _BootstrapApp
  File "App1.py", line 13, in OnInit
  File "Frame1.pyc", line 25, in create
  File "Frame1.pyc", line 170, in __init__
  File "brain.pyc", line 15, in __init__
  File "points.pyc", line 16, in __init__
  File "xml\dom\ext\reader\Sax2.pyc", line 385, in FromXmlStream
  File "xml\dom\ext\reader\Sax2.pyc", line 346, in __init__
  File "xml\sax\saxexts.pyc", line 77, in make_parser
xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

I checked out what Ron suggested, but I've no files where the names
could clash with python modules.

Thanks,
Martin.



From nehagupta29_2005 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 07:04:11 2005
From: nehagupta29_2005 at yahoo.com (neha)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 04:04:11 -0700
Subject: problem running a python script using apache,mod_python on linux
Message-ID: <1129719851.948290.67990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi,
i m trying to integrate python with apache on linux.For this i m using
mod_python.
I dont see any problem with the versions of python,apache and
mod_python i m using.
the versions i m using are
apache version2.
mod_python v3.1.14
python2.4
The problem is,when i m running my python script,after starting apache
,it is showing me the code it has.

My error_log is showing the following message


[Tue Oct 18 19:01:06 2005] [notice] Apache/2.0.55 (Unix)
mod_python/3.1.4 Python/2.4.2 configured -- resuming normal operations
[Tue Oct 18 19:01:06 2005] [info] Server built: Oct 17 2005 13:07:52
[Tue Oct 18 19:01:06 2005] [debug] prefork.c(956): AcceptMutex: sysvsem
(default: sysvsem)


the access_log is showing this message:
127.0.0.1 - - [18/Oct/2005:19:01:14 +0530] "GET /apache_pb.gif
HTTP/1.1" 200 2326
127.0.0.1 - - [18/Oct/2005:19:01:19 +0530] "GET /test/mptest.py
HTTP/1.1" 200 110


from the python script,i m returning an apache.OK ,so i think it goin
on fine,as i m getting 200i.e the hhtp processing is goin on fine.


I have made the required changes to the httpd.conf file
***
LoadModule python_module /home/ngupta/Apache2/modules/mod_python.so


DocumentRoot "/home/ngupta/Apache2/htdocs"

<Directory />
    AllowOverride FileInfo
</Directory>

***
I m using a .htaccess file placed under Apache2/htdocs/test/
The .htaccess file has the following code
**
AddHandler mod_python .py
PythonHandler mptest
PythonDebug On
**
where mptest is python script and is as follows
**
from mod_python import apache
def handler(req):
        req.send_http_header()
        req.write("Hello")
        return apache.OK
**
so if anyone knows where the problem lies ,please tell me.
thanks.
Neha gupta



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 15:10:34 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim G)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 12:10:34 -0700
Subject: Windows vs Linux
In-Reply-To: <s9zd5ls7809.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
References: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
	<s9zd5ls7809.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1130353834.320068.213020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> "Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> writes:
>
> > But as far as I can tell
> > from my experience and from the docs -- and I'm not near a
> > Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall line x
> > in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2 etc.
> > Or can you?
>
> You can.  It works fine on this box, at least.
> GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(1)-release (i386-pc-linux-gnu)
> libreadline 4.2a

Sadly, this seems not to be the case on my Ubuntu Breezy:
bash 3.00.16, libreadline 4.3/5.0 (not sure which one
bash is using). ctrl-r is fine; but you can't down-arrow
from there; it just beeps at you. Is there some setting I'm
missing?

TJG



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Oct 26 12:04:12 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 16:04:12 GMT
Subject: distutils - distributing non-python data files
References: <1130261753.871759.11690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlv8o5.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 25 Oct 2005 10:35:53 -0700, RickMuller <rpmuller at gmail.com> wrote:
> I really appreciate the ease that the distutils make distributing
> Python modules. However, I have a question about using them to
> distribute non-Python (i.e. text) data files that support Python
> modules.

I think you forgot to explain why you cannot simply use distutil's
data_files parameter. Do you have trouble finding the file at runtime?

  http://docs.python.org/dist/node12.html

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Sun Oct 23 17:35:34 2005
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:35:34 -0400
Subject: IDE recommendation please
In-Reply-To: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <f105d$435c022a$4275d90a$24824@FUSE.NET>

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microsnot wrote:
| I'm new to Python but am wondering what IDE Python developers use? I
use Mac
| OS X 10.4.2. I have PythonIDE which comes with MacPython but I don't think
| that has even rudimentary "intellisense". Xcode and Eclipse don't seem to
| support Python out of the box. Suggestions for plugins for Eclipse would
| also be nice.
|
The situation has been pretty bleak, and I've tried (even maintained Mac
packages for awhile) nearly all the open-source IDE's out there,
including SPE, Boa, Eric3, etc. They all crashed constantly in my
experience. SPE has been making more of a Mac push since I stopped
maintaining Mac packages so it may have improved.

Komodo is a good IDE and is currently in beta testing on OS X: see
www.activestate.com for the particulars. It's more polished than any of
the open-source tools (though it should be for the $300 that the pro
version costs), and runs natively (as an Aqua app). Komodo is not
Python-only, but if you are developing commercially it is a very  good
tool to consider.

WingIDE is also very powerful, but runs only as an X11 app on the Mac.
That may or may not be a problem for you.

I've ultimately settled on a primitive set of tools myself, Emacs or
IDLE, plus the console. Fewer bells and whistles, but they are stable,
and don't get in my way.

- --
Cheers,

Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software - "Tame the Terminal"
http://www.wordtech-software.com
sw at wordtech-software.com
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From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Oct  5 17:40:05 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 22:40:05 +0100
Subject: dictionary interface
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1482.1128473060.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<mailman.1482.1128473060.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510052237280.5433@urchin.earth.li>

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Robert Kern wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone a reference?
>>>
>>> The function dict_compare in dictobject.c .
>>
>> Well there's a really helpful answer.
>
> Well, *I* thought it was.

And indeed it was. I'm sorry i was so rude - i must have been in a bad 
mood. My apologies.

> What do you want? Personalized Python tutorials delivered by candygram?

YES DAMMIT! WITH BIG KISS FROM GUIDO!

tom

-- 
The revolution is here. Get against the wall, sunshine. -- Mike Froggatt


From rupole at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 26 15:47:36 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:47:36 -0400
Subject: Small utility program for the windows
References: <mailman.2474.1130155648.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130356307_677@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

It works fine for me (XP, Python 2.4.2).
Where exactly do you get the access denied ?
When writing to the registry, or trying to start python,
or within the python code ?

       Roger

"Iyer, Prasad C" <prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com> wrote in message news:mailman.2474.1130155648.509.python-list at python.org...

Hi,
I am trying to create a small utility program which would be configured
in registry. Something like this
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\*\shell\ShortCut\command]
@="\"python C:\\workspace\\python\\Tut\\ShortCut.py\""


It gives me access denied exception when I try it.
Can anyone help me out.
Following is the code

from Tkinter import *
import sys

class BaseClass(Frame):
    def __init__(self, master=None):
        Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.grid()
        self.createWidget()
    def createWidget(self):
        self.text=Text(self, width=20, height=3)
        self.text.grid(row=0,column=0)
        Button(self, text="ok", command=self.addText).grid(row=1,
column=0)
    def addText(self):
        print "hello world"

baseClass=BaseClass()
print sys.argv[0]
for i in range(0, len(sys.argv)):
    print sys.argv[i]
baseClass.mainloop()



I have to modify the code further so that it takes argument.

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is 
intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, 
print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, 
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From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 20:47:09 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 00:47:09 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>

joe at invalid.address wrote:

> John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> 
>> joe at invalid.address wrote:
>> 
>> > John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
>> > 
>> >> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>> >> > 
>> >> > "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
>> >> > news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
>> >> > 
>> >> >> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing
>> >> >> about browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero
>> >> >> billion dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to
>> >> >> own it?
>> >> > 
>> >> >     It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
>> >> >     applications that work in any browser on any OS threaten to
>> >> >     make it irrelevent what OS you're running.
>> >> 
>> >> And it's even easier to understand that your statement is
>> >> nonsense.
>> >> 
>> >> It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the
>> >> Linux kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same
>> >> results.  Yet people seem to prefer one distribution over one
>> >> other.
>> > 
>> > He was talking about the browser war, and gave a pretty good
>> > reason why it was important. So you respond by pointing out that
>> > people choose a linux distribution for personal (non-technical,
>> > non-marketing) reasons. I think I missed the connection.
>> 
>> web based applications that work with any browser make OS irrelevant
>> -> not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter which Linux
>> distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet people seem to
>> make a point of which distribution they use.
> 
> A linux distribution isn't an OS, it's a distribution, so I'm not sure
> what your point here is.

Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web based, 
and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions matter? It 
doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example, OpenOffice. Yet 
people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one reason is that people 
like to belong to a group. So even if it really doesn't matter which OS 
you are going to use to access a web application, or even which browser, 
people will pick a certain browser, and a certain OS, just because.

> In fact, there are lots

How much?

> of Microsoft-centric web pages that don't
> work well when accessed from a linux system. ActiveX, MS Java, etc.

Does it matter? There are webpages that just don't work for some people, 
no matter that they do work for others. You can't just make up one 
standard average user and design the web for it.

>> >> > MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important
>> >> > to be running on one of their OSes.
>> >> 
>> >> Maybe *they* do have a point :-).
>> > 
>> > Which is?
>> 
>> That it *does* matter. It doesn't matter which brand makes your
>> graphics card, since most stick close to the reference design of the
>> GPU chip supplier, yet people take the brand in consideration when
>> they buy.
> 
> I don't think that's true, at least not yet. I recently bought a
> Compaq Presario,

Hey, me too :-) (SR1505LA to be exactly, and it does work with Kubuntu, 
or at least I get a picture).

> which came with XP installed. I wiped the disk and

Me too (but that was to get rid of the Spanish XP)

> installed Linux, only to find that the hardware would only work under
> XP.

Now that's odd, since mine worked, network, video, sound, etc.

> So I then had to install network, video, sound etc cards to get it
> working.

Odd, very odd. But I am quite sure that if you don't have a driver for a 
certain chip set, that it doesn't matter who puts the chip set on a 
piece of PCB, it isn't going to work.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Mon Oct 10 21:51:21 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:51:21 +1000
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
Message-ID: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Can somebody help me please? I've spent a fruitless 
hour googling with no luck.

I'm discussing memory allocation techniques with 
somebody, and I'm trying to find a quote from -- I 
think -- Tim Peters where he discusses the way Python 
allocates memory when you append to lists. In basic 
terms, he says that every time you try to append to a 
list that is already full, Python doubles the size of 
the list. This wastes no more than 50% of the memory 
needed for that list, but has various advantages -- and 
I'm damned if I can remember exactly what those 
advantages were.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,


-- 
Steven.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:49:13 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:49:13 -0700
Subject: Simple prototype text editor in python
In-Reply-To: <1128609090.858119.28110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128530997.895468.164240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1585.1128581675.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128609090.858119.28110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di3dhb$1uh$1@sea.gmane.org>

thakadu wrote:
> Hi Viktor
> 
> At the moment I dont have any web site where I can
> upload it. Do you or anyone have any suggestions or
> know of any web sites where one can post python code?
> If not please email me and I will send you the code by email.

If you package it with distutils, then you can upload the source
distribution automatically to PyPI:

  http://python.org/pypi

> Regarding the license I have not yet decided what type
> of license (if any, since its very few lines of code)  but probably
> will be GPL or BSD style. I have no former experience in
> licensing code so any suggestions will be welcome there as well.
> (For one, do you know if simply stating somewhere in the
> code "This is licensed under blah blah" is sufficient
> to consider the code licensed?)

Perhaps, but you really should include the full license text somewhere.
Since your code is so short, then I highly recommend using a short,
permissive license. It does no one any good to attach a license that's
longer than the program itself.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From kylotan at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 05:03:56 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 02:03:56 -0700
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
In-Reply-To: <1129690538.026623.28230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2187.1129582031.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129690538.026623.28230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129712636.124150.248200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


brusstoc at gmail.com wrote:
> Not sure that is a good idea on a linux system. MS should be fine, but
> I actually tried that on linux. Didn't realize how much on a linux
> system depends on Python.

I had that problem once, although to be fair it really does depend on
which distribution you use as to how many problems you're going to
have.

Perhaps the way to do it is to install the new Python version in
/usr/local/ (alongside the distro's version is in /usr/ ), then when
you're sure your new version is installed and working, change the
references over - perhaps it's possible to do this with just 1 symbolic
link somewhere.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From leomendoza at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 17:34:40 2005
From: leomendoza at gmail.com (leo)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 14:34:40 -0700
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
Message-ID: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hello all -

I was wondering about the performance implications of explicitly
raising exceptions to get information about the current frame.
Something like what the inspect module does, with:

---
def currentframe():
    """Return the frame object for the caller's stack frame."""
    try:
        raise 'catch me'
    except:
        return sys.exc_traceback.tb_frame.f_back
---

I come from a java background, where Exceptions are a big Avoid Me, but
are the performance implications the same in Python? We're expecting a
big load on our app (100,000 users/hour) , so we'd like to be as tuned
as possible.

Thanks,
leo



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 10:50:12 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:50:12 +1000
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:09:29 -0400, Christopher Subich wrote:

>>>By analogy, one can ask, "is the cat inside the box?" and get the answer
>>>"No", but this does not imply that therefore the box must be inside the
>>>cat.
>> 
>> 
>> Bad analogy, this doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset
>> relationship does.
> 
> Yes, it does.  Consider "in" as a mathematical operator:
>
> For the set (box, cat-in-box)
> 
> box in box: False
> box in cat-in-box: False
> cat-in-box in box: True
> cat-in-box in cat-in-box: False
> 
> For the set (box, smart-cat) # cat's too smart to get in the box
> 
> box in box: False
> box in smart-cat: False
> smart-cat in box: False
> smart-cat in smart-cat: False
> 
> In both these cases, the "in" operator is irreflexive, asymmetric, and 
> transitive (extend to mouse-in-cat if you really care about transitive), 
> so "in" is a partial order sans equality.  A useless one, but a partial 
> order nonetheless.

What do you mean "in" is a useless ordering? It makes a huge difference
whether "nuclear bomb in New York" is true or not.

In fact, I'm quite surprised that Antoon should object to "in" as "this
doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset relationship does" when
"subset" is just "in" for sets: set S is a subset of set T if for all
elements x in S, x is also in T. Informally, subset S is in set T.

Can somebody remind me, what is the problem Antoon is trying to solve here?


-- 
Steven.



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 28 16:50:28 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:50:28 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86zmoufiww.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> The quote about the mafia doesn't compare MS's actions to "actual use
>> of force".
>     I'm sorry, that's just absurd. I won't speculate on what motivates you 
> to engage in such crazy distortion. Of course the quote about the Mafia 
> compares MS's actions to actual use of force.

Maybe true, maybe not - but it doesn't matter. The point is that you
respond to *every* comparison of MS with other criminals as a
comparison to "criminals with guns", and then refuse to discuss the
issue, with utter disregard as to what the other person said. That you
might be right in one case is irrelevant - we're talking about a
pattern of behavior.

If MS had been found guilty of abuse of monopoly power in one
instance, few people would care. People do make mistakes. That they
have been found guilty of such abuse repeatedly, on multiple
continents, and were recently caught doing it yet again - that's what
makes them criminals. It's the pattern of behavior that matters, not
the single instances.

I'm still waiting for you to come up with an explanation for the
pattern of your behavior other than that you're taking orders from
MS. But I expect yout to deny that it exists.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 22 21:02:44 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:44 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86k6g59ke6.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

>>> Neither I, nor you, nor the government of any nation, should care a
>>> monkey's toss specifically for Microsoft's success. Microsoft is one
>>> special interest, out of a potentially unbounded number of possible
>>> players in the economy of a country and the world.

>>     No, not at all. It is the gravest act of self-contradiction to 
>> maintain
>> that one should be allowed to pursue one's own interest while denying 
>> that
>> same right to others.

> Not at all. No one is denying anyones right to purssue their own
> interest. What's being denied is the right to use illegal means to do
> so. If MS restricted themselves to legal means, no one would have a
> problem with them.

    The conclusion that the means were illegal is predicated on the 
definition of the relevent market as "desktop operating systems for 32-bit 
x86 computers". Conduct is not illegal unless some law puts people on 
adequate notice that their conduct is illegal. What law put Microsoft on 
notice that the relevent market would be defined in the bizarre and almost 
nonsensical way?

>>> Unless you or I are specifically shareholders in Microsoft, we should 
>>> not
>>> care about their specific success; and the government should be entirely
>>> agnostic about who are the winners and losers in an economy.

>>     We should certainly care that Microsoft be allowed to pursue their 
>> own
>> success. The government should be agnostic about who the winners and 
>> losers
>> are, but must respect each entity's right to attempt to be that winner.

> Nice thought. Unfortunately, the government doesn't work that
> way. They believe that a practical monopoly is a bad thing, and limit
> the things such a company can do, and have been known to disassemble
> companies they believe are harming the economy in general.

    In other words, they believe the rights of Microsoft to do what they 
please with what is theirs is subservient to some general obligation to help 
the economy as a whole. I am saying that Microsoft has no obligaiton to the 
economy as a whole but instead has an obligation to its stockholders. It 
would be the gravest dereliction of that obligation for Microsoft to 
sacrifice itself for some general benefit.

>>> The
>>> government's role should be to ensure a level playing field, and minimum
>>> levels of health, safety and environmental standards. There is no place
>>> for government giving special-interests like Microsoft favours.

>>     The problem is, people complain when the playing field is in fact 
>> level.
>> For example, Microsoft's "exclusionary" Windows agreements didn't ask for
>> more than Windows was worth (or nobody would have agreed to them). Yet 
>> they
>> are considered examples of the playing field not being level.

> No, they didn't ask for more than Windows were worth. They tilted the
> playing field against MS competitors by causing consumers to pay MS
> money for products they didn't receive. In most countries, taking
> money from unwilling victims without giving them anything in exchange
> is called "theft".

    It is not theft if you can simply say "no" to the deal and all that 
happens is that you don't get the product. Your argument is preposterous. If 
you accept arguments that equate guns with arguments, the next step is that 
using a gun is a rational response to an argument one doesn't like. Oh wait, 
you're already there.

>>> Microsoft's behaviour over-all has been just as anti-social,
>>> anti-competitive and harmful to the over-all running of the economy as a
>>> hypothetical Walmart or Safeway that regularly parked their trucks in 
>>> the
>>> middle of the main road for a few hours while they unloaded.

>>     The problem is, the government does not own the economy. So it does 
>> not
>> get to manage it the way it gets to manage the roads it in fact owns.

> Sorry, but you're wrong. The government *does* own the econnomy.

    If you believe that, then there is no reaching you with reason.

> Who
> do you think originally created all the money that is flowing through
> it?

    The government created a medium of exchange, but that is not the same as 
saying it created the wealth that money represents. The government created 
the money simply as a stand in for the wealth that was created by others.

> The government charges you for the privilege of participating in
> their economy - it's called "income tax". 2000 years ago Christ knew
> who owned the economy, and said "Render unto Ceaser that which is
> Ceasers."

    The government charges you, notionally, for the services it provides. It 
is somewhat silly to phrase as this as charging you for the privilege of 
participating in *their* economy. I am familiar with just about every theory 
for justifying government power, and I know of none that justifies a claim 
of complete government ownership of the economy other than those that lead 
to Communism or Totalitariansm.

>>> Maybe, just maybe, if Mom & Pop's Corner Store tried it once or twice, 
>>> we
>>> could afford to turn a blind eye, especially if the disruption caused by
>>> towing their delivery van was greater than the disruption caused by 
>>> their
>>> double-parking. Thousands of people break the law by double-parking for 
>>> a
>>> few minutes, and society doesn't collapse. But something that we can
>>> afford to ignore when done by M&P's Corner Store becomes a serious 
>>> problem
>>> if done by somebody with the economic power of Walmart, with their
>>> thousands of deliveries by 18-wheelers every day across the country.

>>     Again, the analogy fails. You are comparing the government's right to
>> manage its own property with the government's "right" to interfere with
>> other people's right to manage their property.

> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
> property, only they call it "property tax".

    I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to 
live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me 
know.

>>     When a criminal willing to use force points a gun at your head, you 
>> lie
>> to him.

> You sound like an anarchist to me. This wasn't a criminal, this was
> the government. Lieing to random individuals isn't a crime. Lieing to
> the government is.

    If the government prosecutes people for crimes wherein there was no 
notice whatsoever that their conduct was criminal, it is acting criminally 
itself. Apparently, in your world the only alternatives are that the 
government owns everything or that the government owns nothing. As soon as I 
claim anything is beyond the government's power, I'm an anarchist in your 
book.

>>> In any case, even if you are right that Microsoft had no ideas... so 
>>> what?
>>> Ignorance of the law never has been an excuse for criminal behaviour. It
>>> has always been every individual's responsibility to make sure that they
>>> do not act illegally, and that goes for companies as well.

>>     I am not saying Microsoft did not know the law. I am saying that no
>> rational person could have expected the law to be applied to Microsoft 
>> that
>> way it was. The law *must* put a person on notice of precisely what 
>> conduct
>> it prohibits. However, in this case, the law's applicability was 
>> conditioned
>> on an abritrary and irrational choice of what the relevant market was.

> MS has a long history of dancing with the DOJ, and has been repeatedly
> warned about the legality - or lack thereof - of their behavior. No
> rational person who knew of that history could expect the law to be
> applied to MS in any way other than the way it was.

    Since when does the DOJ get to make the law? (George Bush's claims to 
the contrary not withstanding.) The issue is whether the *LAW* put Microsoft 
on notice. A just law must itself put people on notice as to precisely what 
conduct constitutes a violation of that law.

    DS




From mde at micah.elliott.name  Tue Oct  4 15:15:05 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:15:05 -0700
Subject: Newbie regular expression ?
In-Reply-To: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051004191505.GA32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 04, len wrote:
> I have the following statement and it works fine;
> 
>     list1 = glob.glob('*.dat')
> 
> however I now have an additional requirement the the string must begin
> with any form of "UNQ,Unq,unq,..."
> 
> as an example if I had the following four files in the directory:
> 
> unq123abc.dat
> xy4223.dat
> myfile.dat
> UNQxyc123489-24.dat
> 
> only unq123abc.dat and UNQxyc123489-24.dat would be selected

If glob is your preferred means, one option is:

   $ touch unq1.dat UnQ1.dat unQ1.dat UNQ1.dat foo.dat
   $ python -c '
   - import glob
   - print glob.glob("[uU][nN][qQ]*.dat")
   - '
   ['unq1.dat', 'UnQ1.dat', 'unQ1.dat', 'UNQ1.dat']
   $ man 3 fnmatch

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah dot elliott dot name>


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct  6 19:57:20 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:57:20 -0500
Subject: Force flushing buffers
In-Reply-To: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <17221.47584.829941.335497@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Madhusudan> How do I flush the buffer and force python to write the
    Madhusudan> buffers to the files ? I intend to put this inside the loop.

f = open("somefile", "w")
f.write("foo")
f.flush()

Skip


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Thu Oct 27 07:27:12 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:27:12 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>                            Microsoft was not going to let a business 
> parasitically use Windows to build a business that touted the advantages of 
> competing products.

Well, it should have, because that's what manufacturers of operating
systems, washing machines, and so on, are supposed to do. And so says
the legal system. Attempting to subvert market economics like that is
illegal.


> (Just as Burger King corporate will not you sell Big 
> Macs in the same store in which you sell Whoppers.)

They're not obliged to. There is no comparison. Not even the same kind
of business in the abstract.  Try :- Cow Meat Inc.  will see that no
supplier will ever sell you cow meat again if you also sell vegetables
in your totally independent restaurant.

Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 15 02:50:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:50:54 +0200
Subject: MD5 module Pythonicity
References: <6815022a0510142223q3b6ae449ja0483f2f25ebb263@mail.gmail.com>
	<diq8fl$f0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <diq8sg$frp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Forcing every digest module to add code to cater for just one of many
> use cases is most likely a waste of time.

here's the hash API specification, btw:

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0247.html

</F>






From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Sat Oct 15 09:36:56 2005
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:36:56 GMT
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051014170644.1803.75237.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129316814_3173@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <20051015094021.2058.55430.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>

Mentre io pensavo ad una intro simpatica "Cousin Stanley" scriveva:

[Upgrading XPN to 0.5.5 ...]
[...]
>     files .... 
>
>       o custom_headers.txt
>       o groups_list
>       o server_logs.dat

I'd add also config.txt ;-)

>   No initial configuration, downloading newsrc file,
>   or re-subscribing to newsgroups was required 
>   and all of my previously kept & watched messages
>   seem to be in place .... 
>   Thanks for the update ....

Thanks to you for testing it. :-)

-- 
Backup not found: (A)bort, (R)etry, (M)assive heart failure?
 
 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Tue Oct  4 04:40:16 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 08:40:16 GMT
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <86fyrijlqu.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<nvh0f.11590$pb5.564339@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<86fyrijlqu.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Qdr0f.11929$Do7.409662@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> writes:
> 
>>Is that really the desired behaviour? IMO the least you can do if you're
>>searching for help is subscribing to the mailing list on which you're
>>looking for help. Me and many others don't like to receive replies
>>directly instead of via the mailing list; it's of no use, since we're
>>subscribed to the mailing list anyway.
> 
> 
> Rather than asking everyone else to modify their behavior for your
> convenience, why don't you fix the problem at your end? Check to see
> if the list will filter duplicates for you. Check to see if your
> mailer will filter duplicates for you. Or grit and bear it. You'll
> almost certainly get less unwanted mail from people who send you
> duplicates in reply to your messages than they would get from
> subscsribing to the list.

Don't overreact please -- I was just asking if what you described is
really the desired behavior, along with some of the reasons why I'm not
sure that it is. My experience of reading a number of mailing lists
throughout the years seem to indicate that most people prefer that
people looking for help subscribe to the mailing list. I might be wrong
of course, that's why I stated it as a question.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From belred at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 00:03:02 2005
From: belred at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:03:02 -0700
Subject: tuple versus list
In-Reply-To: <donn-317D8D.09514017102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <1129460775.484350.209520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129475300.537237.131090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2141.1129493153.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-317D8D.09514017102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <dj1s5l$jbc$1@sea.gmane.org>


>>
>>i always use the structure analogy.  if you view (width, height) as a 
>>structure, 
>>use a tuple.  if you view it a sequence, use a list.  in this example, i view 
>>it 
>>as a stucture, so i would use (width, height) as a tuple.
> 
> 
> Right, but there's an unfortunate ambiguity in the term "sequence",
> since in Python it is defined to include tuple.  I gather you meant
> more in the abstract sense of a data collection whose interesting
> properties are of a sequential nature, as opposed to the way we are
> typically more interested in positional access to a tuple.  Maybe
> a more computer literate reader will have a better word for this,
> that doesn't collide with Python terminology.  My semi-formal
> operational definition is "a is similar to a[x:y], where
> x is not 0 or y is not -1, and `similar' means `could be a legal
> value in the same context.'"
> 
>    Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


yes, you are correct.  i shouldn't have used the word "sequence" which is a 
python term.   maybe structure vs. array.  in any case, i think the *wrong* 
answer that is often given to this question is along the lines of if it's read 
only, make it a tuple. if it's read write, make it a list. a great trivial 
example is a point.  a point is a structure (x, y).  if you have many points 
then you have a list of structures: [(x, y), (x1, y1), (x2, y2), ...].  to me, 
it doesn't matter if you want to modify a point.  if you do then create a new 
one, but don't make it a list just to make it modifiable.

bryan



From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct  3 16:11:08 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:11:08 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <wfg0f.165329$p_1.130312@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 06:59:04 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> 
> x = 12.0 # feet
> # three pages of code
> y = 15.0 # metres
> # three more pages of code
> distance = x + y
> if distance < 27:
>     fire_retro_rockets()
> 
> And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
> early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
> employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.

Yes, and a reserved position in the unemployment line as well, I would bet.

> Declared variables have considerable labour costs, and only marginal
> gains. Since the steps you take to protect against other errors will also
> protect against mistyping variables, declarations of variables is of
> little practical benefit.

Also checking types is not the same as checking values.

In most cases where critical code is used you really want value testing 
not type checking.  This is where self validating objects are useful and 
there is nothing preventing anyone from using them in Python.

Cheers,
Ron


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 18 11:21:01 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:21:01 -0000
Subject: Installing Python at Work
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11la4mthu8tar46@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-17, Nikola <tsaparas4life at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm considering installing it on a work laptop, knowing that
> it is non-licensed, distributable software.
>
> However, does it access communication ports?

Only if you tell it to.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm having BEAUTIFUL
                                  at               THOUGHTS about the INSIPID
                               visi.com            WIVES of smug and wealthy
                                                   CORPORATE LAWYERS...


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 15 21:47:19 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:47:19 GMT
Subject: dis.dis question
References: <rwT1f.138151$xl6.1729@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<aN72f.138292$xl6.19229@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4351affc.104308027@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:10:46 GMT, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

>Ron Adam wrote:
>> 
>> Can anyone show me an example of of using dis() with a traceback?
>> 
>> Examples of using disassemble_string() and distb() separately if 
>> possible would be nice also.
>
>  [cliped]
>
>> But I still need to rewrite disassemble_string() and need to test it 
>> with tracebacks.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Ron
>
>It seems I've found a bug in dis.py, or maybe a expected non feature. 
>When running dis from a program it fails to find the last traceback 
>because sys.last_traceback doesn't get set.  (a bug in sys?)  It works 
>ok from the shell, but not from the program.
>
>Changing it to to get sys.exc_info()[2], fix's it in a program, but then 
>it doesn't work in the shell.  So I replaced it with the following which 
>works in both.
>
>         try:
>             if hasattr(sys,'last_traceback'):
>                 tb = sys.last_traceback
>             else:
>                 tb = sys.exc_info()[2]
>         except AttributeError:
>             raise RuntimeError, "no last traceback to disassemble"
>
>I'm still looking for info on how to use disassemble_string().
>

One way to get dis output without modufying dis is to capture stdout:
(ancient thing I cobbled together, no guarantees ;-)

 >>> class SOCapture:
 ...     """class to capture stdout between calls to start & end methods, q.v."""
 ...     import sys
 ...     def __init__(self):
 ...         self.so = self.sys.stdout
 ...         self.text = []
 ...     def start(self, starttext=None):
 ...         """Overrides sys.stdout to capture writes.
 ...         Optional starttext is immediately appended as if written to stdout."""
 ...         self.sys.stdout = self
 ...         if starttext is None: return
 ...         self.text.append(starttext)
 ...     def end(self, endtext=None):
 ...         """Restores stdout to value seen at contruction time.
 ...         Optional endtext is appended as if written to stdout before that."""
 ...         self.sys.stdout = self.so
 ...         if endtext is None: return
 ...         self.text.append(endtext)
 ...     def gettext(self):
 ...         """Returns captured text as single string."""
 ...         return ''.join(self.text)
 ...     def clear(self):
 ...         """Clears captured text list."""
 ...         self.text = []
 ...     def write(self, s):
 ...         """Appends written string to captured text list.
 ...         This method is what allows an instance to stand in for stdout."""
 ...         self.text.append(s)
 ...
 >>> def foo(x): return (x+1)**2
 ...
 >>> so = SOCapture()
 >>> import dis
 >>> so.start()
 >>> dis.dis(foo)
 >>> so.end()
 >>> print so.gettext()
   1           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
               3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
               6 BINARY_ADD
               7 LOAD_CONST               2 (2)
              10 BINARY_POWER
              11 RETURN_VALUE

Or safer:

 >>> def diss(code):
 ...     try:
 ...         so = SOCapture()
 ...         so.start()
 ...         dis.dis(code)
 ...     finally:
 ...         so.end()
 ...         return so.gettext()
 ...
 >>> diss(foo)
 '  1           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)\n              3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)\
 n              6 BINARY_ADD          \n              7 LOAD_CONST               2 (2)\n
     10 BINARY_POWER        \n             11 RETURN_VALUE        \n'
 >>> print diss(foo)
   1           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
               3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
               6 BINARY_ADD
               7 LOAD_CONST               2 (2)
              10 BINARY_POWER
              11 RETURN_VALUE


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ms at cerenity.org  Sat Oct 29 12:06:20 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:06:20 +0100
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43639d74$0$6497$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>

qwweeeit at yahoo.it wrote:

>  But then I changed idea... Also if it is already one year that I try
>  to find a solution in Linux (mainly with Python or DCOP and KDE),

This doesn't express the question you have anywhere clearly enough. Linux
can run perfectly happily without any form of windowing environment. Many
people run using Gnome. Many others using KDE. And the number of people who
use *neither* of those but some window manager is still high.

Do you want to replay against qt applications? KDE? wx? GTK? Or send raw X11
events? The answers to these questions aren't linux specific either...


Michael.


From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 18:37:47 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:37:47 -0500
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128811227_124196@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

csheppard91 at gmail.com wrote:
> I've launched a new forum not too long ago, and I invite you all to go
> there: www.wizardsolutionsusa.com (click on the forum link).  We offer
> all kinds of help, and for those of you who just like to talk, there's
> a chit chat section just for you...Just remember that forum
> communication is much easier, safer, and faster.
> 

[.section Blurb]

About me:
My name is James (Cantley) Sheppard. I am a North Carolina resident, at 
the age of 16. I have been programming since the age of 12, and enjoy it 
as lifes[sic] greatest passion. In the future, I would love to become 
the leading Software Engineer at a fairly large company, and maybe 
someday own my own business. As of right now, I am currently in high 
school and planning on going to a four year college somewhere around the 
country. Well, that is my life story, and about all I got to say!


[.section Commentary]

Hrm, obviously hasn't had enough programming experience in 4 years to 
quite know what he's talking about.  Before making random "assertions" 
James, you might want to take into account the community you're talking 
to.  I don't know about you guys, but I've had enough teen start up 
webpages.  They clog the web.  No offense of course to the younger 
readers, its just...it's like E/N sites...junk most of the time.


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sun Oct  9 22:22:06 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 19:22:06 -0700
Subject: Newbie Count Question
References: <1128904984.744314.70870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128910925.989005.53230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

"ProvoWallis" wrote:

> I've managed to get this far thanks to looking at other
> posts on the board but no matter waht I try all of the
> sections end up being numbered for the total number of
> sections in the document. e.g., if there are 100 sections
> in the document the "no" attribute is "1.100"
> for each one.

Of course it is; the counter you compute is fixed and equal to
len(all). What you need is a substitution function that keeps track of
the counter and increments it by one for every substitution. This means
that the counter becomes part of the function's state. When you hear
"function" and "state" together, the typical solution is "class":

import re

class ReplaceSecMain(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self._count = 0
        self._secmain_re = re.compile(r'''
            (?<= <sec-main\ no=" )   # positive lookbehind assertion
            ( \d* )                  # first number
            (?: \.\d* )              # dot and second number (ignored)
            (?= "> )                 # positive lookahead assertion
            ''', re.IGNORECASE | re.VERBOSE)

    def sub(self, text):
        return self._secmain_re.sub(self._subNum, text)

    def _subNum(self, match):
        self._count += 1
        return '%s.%.2d' % (match.group(1), self._count)


print ReplaceSecMain().sub(open("myfile.txt").read())


I also cleaned up the regular expression a little; google for
lookahead/lookbehind assertions if you haven't seen them before.

HTH,
George



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 11:15:18 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:15:18 +0100
Subject: Psycopg2 date problems: "Can't adapt"
In-Reply-To: <1129904648.249591.40010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2362.1129904134.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129904648.249591.40010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djb0m1$hvl$1@sea.gmane.org>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>I'm trying to copy data from an Access database to PostgreSQL, as the
>>latter now appears to work well in the Windows environment. However I'm
>>having trouble with date columns.
>>
>>The PostgreSQL table receiving the data has the following definition:
>>
>>CREATE TABLE Lines (
>>   LinID SERIAL PRIMARY KEY,
>>   LinDate   TIMESTAMP(0),
>>   LinQty    INTEGER,
>>   LinPrdID  INTEGER ,
>>   LinPrice  NUMERIC(8,2),
>>   LinInvoice INTEGER)
>>
>>Here's the problem in a nutshell:
>>
>> >>> d
>><DateTime object for '2003-10-02 00:00:00.00' at af9be0>
>> >>> ocurs.execute("DELETE FROMI Lines")
>> >>> osql
>>'INSERT INTO Lines(LinID, LinDate, LinQty, LinPrdID, LinPrice,
>>LinInvoice) VALUES(%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)'
>> >>> ocurs.execute(osql, (1, d, 1, 1, 12500.0, 88))
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<string>", line 1, in <string>
>>psycopg.ProgrammingError: can't adapt
>> >>> ocurs.execute(osql, (1, None, 1, 1, 12500.0, 88))
>> >>>
>>
>>Since the date value's the only difference between the two, I deduce
>>it's causing the problem.
>>
[...]
>>
 > Is "None" a valid value for SQL ? Or should it be NULL ? May be it is
 > because your input is NULL which is being converted to None in python
 > but haven't been converted back to NULL on its way out.
 >
Python's None is the way you communicate null values through the query 
parameterisation mechanism. You will observe that the statement with the 
None value for the date field runs fine, and the error occurs when I 
provide an actual date object.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From schwehr at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 12:48:41 2005
From: schwehr at gmail.com (schwehr at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 09:48:41 -0700
Subject: keeping unit test info out of pydoc -w?
Message-ID: <1129481321.133397.17130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

Is there an easy way to keep the unittest stuff out of the
documentation that gets generated by pydoc -w?  I just want to exclude
the "Methods inherited from unittest.TestCase:" section.

Thanks!
-kurt



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 25 04:37:06 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:37:06 -0400
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <nlkrl1tacuqf6kde90ditaptjnfdj2hstu@4ax.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<nlkrl1tacuqf6kde90ditaptjnfdj2hstu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <WtidnVUCleQrc8DeRVn-rw@powergate.ca>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> "PyPK" <superprad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>What possible tricky areas/questions could be asked in Python based
>>Technical Interviews?
> 
> What's the point of asking "tricky" questions?  Aren't you really more
> interested in what applications they have worked on and whether they were
> successful?
> 
> I don't know.  I'm not sure I need a job with a company that insists on
> playing "Programming Jeopardy" during the interview.

That's okay.  Those companies don't need you either. ;-)

Seriously though, the point of asking such questions is that with 
minimal effort they _can_ (not "definitely will") quickly qualify a 
candidate's level of expertise in a language.  Novices, and those who 
while they might have programmed in a language for several years still 
don't really understand it deeply enough to be considered entirely safe 
on their own, will generally trip up on all or most such questions 
(where "trip up" means anything from giving wrong answers to giving you 
the "deer in the headlights" look).  _Anyone_ could trip up on one or 
two of them, especially given the pressure of an interview situation. 
(And even seeing an expert trip up under pressure tells you something 
useful about the candidate.)

In short, a true senior programmer will provide good correct answers to 
most such questions, while those less senior generally will not.

Asking such questions in isolation, without also delving deeply into 
other background such as what applications you've worked on, is just as 
dangerous as asking _only_ about such applications.  I've made the 
mistake of hiring people who had lengthy involvement -- apparently at a 
senior level -- in significant projects, only to discover that they 
clearly didn't understand some basic concepts of the languages 
supposedly used.  My conclusion was that they were in that class of 
people who manage to interview well yet contribute little, but have 
lucked out repeatedly by working for companies who were incompetent at 
terminating for cause (and there are _many_ such companies).  (We didn't 
make the same mistake and fired them reasonably quickly.)

-Peter


From http  Thu Oct 27 07:47:27 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 04:47:27 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djqc0r$3fd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xhdb35ghc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>     The appeals courts upheld that the trial court did not abuse its 
> discretion. However, both a finding of "yes, Microsoft had a monopoly" and a 
> finding of "no, Microsoft did not have a monopoly" would both have been 
> within the trial court's discretion.

No, that finding would have been contradictory to the facts at hand.

> They could just as easily have found that Linux, OSX, FreeBSD, and
> other operating systems competed with Windows.

Nice try, but those other OS's did not have enough market share to
prevent the finding of monopoly under the law.

>     To call it an "established legal fact" is to grossly distort the 
> circumstances under which it was determined and upheld.

Who is paying you to post such nonsense?  If the trial court
determines a fact and it's upheld on appeal, it's an established legal
fact regardless of whether you or Microsoft likes it.


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 10 22:23:02 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:23:02 -0400
Subject: Library functions
In-Reply-To: <1128989170.017791.235100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128973241.967119.199440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11klhlmas9nfm40@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128989170.017791.235100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bJ6dnc6SKcacv9beRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Tuvas wrote:
> How exactly do you do that? Just to get some kind of an idea, perhaps
> you could share bits of code? Thanks!

Did you check out the ctypes web site before asking?  See 
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/ and at least read 
through the helpful tutorial before asking questions which are almost 
certainly covered there.  For example, right there near the top of the 
first screen in the tutorial is an example of opening a Linux .so file...

-Peter


From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 13:24:34 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:24:34 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130174674.759464.197470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

actually, i can't check for ">" only because if you a dir, a line can
end with a > but is not the end of the output

jas wrote:
> Thanks, that is certainly a start.  As you mentioned, the "cd" could is
> an issue.
>
> Perhaps checking to see if the line ends with ">" is sufficient?
>
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > On 24 Oct 2005 07:20:42 -0700, "jas" <codecraig at gmail.com> declaimed the
> > following in comp.lang.python:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >   I would like to start a new process and be able to read/write from/to
> > > it.  I have tried things like...
> > >
> > > import subprocess as sp
> > > p = sp.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> > > p.stdin.write("hostname\n")
> > >
> > > however, it doesn't seem to work.  I think the cmd.exe is catching it.
> >
> > 	One: you didn't read any of the "returned" output...
> >
> > 	Two: the output only seems to be available upon EOF, which means the
> > spawned command processor has to exit first... Though you CAN read one
> > character at a time, and then have to build lines and expected prompt
> > strings...
> >
> >
> > This seems to work:
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > import subprocess
> > import os
> >
> > PROMPT = os.getcwd() + ">"
> >
> > def getLine(proc):
> >     ld = []
> >     while True:
> >         c = proc.stdout.read(1)
> >         if c == "\r": continue  #skip Windows <cr>
> >         if c != "\n": ld.append(c) #save all but <lf>
> >         if c is None or c == "\n" or c == ">": break
> >     ln = "".join(ld)
> >     return ln
> >
> > p = subprocess.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stdin =
> > subprocess.PIPE)
> >
> > print "**** START of captured output"
> > while True:
> >     ln = getLine(p)
> >     print ln
> >     if ln == PROMPT: break
> > print "**** END of captured output"
> >
> > p.stdin.write("ipconfig\n")
> > print "**** START of captured output"
> > while True:
> >     ln = getLine(p)
> >     print ln
> >     if ln == PROMPT: break
> > print "**** END of captured output"
> >
> > p.stdin.write("dir\n")
> > print "**** START of captured output"
> > while True:
> >     ln = getLine(p)
> >     print ln
> >     if ln == PROMPT: break
> > print "**** END of captured output"
> >
> > p.stdin.write("exit\n")
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>python script1.py
> > **** START of captured output
> > Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> > (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> >
> > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> > **** END of captured output
> > **** START of captured output
> > ipconfig
> >
> > Windows IP Configuration
> >
> >
> > Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
> >
> >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
> >         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
> >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::211:11ff:fee1:f303%4
> >         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
> >
> > Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
> >
> >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
> > 3ffe:831f:4004:1956:0:fbde:bd0a:e50b
> >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5445:5245:444f%5
> >         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
> >
> > Tunnel adapter Automatic Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:
> >
> >         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
> >         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : fe80::5efe:192.168.1.100%2
> >         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
> >
> > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> > **** END of captured output
> > **** START of captured output
> > dir
> >  Volume in drive E is Data
> >  Volume Serial Number is 2626-D991
> >
> >  Directory of E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents
> >
> > 10/24/2005  09:23 AM    <DIR>
> >           .
> > 10/24/2005  09:23 AM    <DIR>
> >           ..
> > 07/25/2005  10:39 PM    <DIR>
> >           .metadata
> > 10/06/2005  09:54 AM    <DIR>
> >           Ada Progs
> > 08/13/2005  02:01 PM    <DIR>
> >           Agent Data
> > 10/21/2005  09:29 AM           421,820 apress_offer.pdf
> > 07/03/2005  11:36 AM               132 cp.py
> > 07/17/2005  12:25 PM    <DIR>
> >           Cyberlink
> > 07/06/2005  09:32 AM           102,400 db1.mdb
> > 07/26/2005  12:20 AM            26,614 eclipse_code.xml
> > 10/24/2005  01:08 AM    <DIR>
> >           Eudora
> > 06/24/2005  08:50 PM               667 fake_oosums.ads
> > 06/24/2005  08:50 PM               695 fake_oosums.ali
> > 09/06/2005  09:01 PM    <DIR>
> >           Genealogy
> > 07/13/2005  10:56 PM    <DIR>
> >           HomeSite
> > 05/08/2005  01:05 PM    <DIR>
> >           Investing
> > 10/21/2005  10:04 PM    <DIR>
> >           Java Progs
> > 08/04/2005  10:13 PM               162 main.py
> > 10/11/2005  10:43 PM    <DIR>
> >           My Downloads
> > 05/01/2005  10:31 AM    <DIR>
> >           My eBooks
> > 04/22/2005  12:09 AM    <DIR>
> >           My Music
> > 07/10/2005  11:43 AM    <DIR>
> >           My Pictures
> > 06/29/2005  11:55 PM    <DIR>
> >           My PSP Files
> > 05/23/2005  09:30 AM    <DIR>
> >           My Videos
> > 05/01/2005  12:49 PM    <DIR>
> >           Office Documents
> > 06/27/2005  03:19 PM         7,961,778
> > org.eclipse.jdt.doc.user.I20050627-1435.pdf
> > 06/27/2005  03:19 PM         6,791,109
> > org.eclipse.platform.doc.user.I20050627-1435.pdf
> > 10/11/2005  10:52 PM                56 oth_tsr_rm_750.ram
> > 07/20/2005  09:32 AM           108,457 parkerred15yc.jpg
> > 09/03/2005  10:36 PM    <DIR>
> >           Python Progs
> > 10/20/2005  10:38 PM    <DIR>
> >           Quicken
> > 07/10/2005  12:09 PM         3,356,248 results.xml
> > 06/11/2005  12:03 PM               935 Scout_Ship Database.lnk
> > 07/03/2005  12:38 PM    <DIR>
> >           Scout_Ship My Documents
> > 10/24/2005  09:23 AM               971 Script1.py
> > 09/25/2005  12:40 PM             1,107 Script1_old.py
> > 08/28/2005  11:47 AM    <DIR>
> >           SimpleMu Logs
> > 06/24/2005  08:56 PM             1,201 student_pack.ads
> > 06/24/2005  08:49 PM             1,144 student_pack.ads.0
> > 06/24/2005  08:56 PM             1,342 student_pack.ali
> > 08/02/2005  11:39 PM             4,096 t.DOC
> > 06/20/2005  10:11 AM               104 t.rx
> > 08/05/2005  08:41 PM            66,452 Untitled-1.tif
> > 08/05/2005  08:41 PM    <DIR>
> >           VCheck
> > 10/03/2005  02:58 AM    <DIR>
> >           Visual Studio
> > 10/03/2005  02:51 AM    <DIR>
> >           Visual Studio 2005
> >               21 File(s)     18,847,490 bytes
> >               25 Dir(s)  267,162,845,184 bytes free
> >
> > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> > **** END of captured output
> >
> > E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
> >
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > 	Note that my "getLine()" has to return on either a real EOL, OR on
> > the end of a command prompt ("stuff>"). I also had to initialize the
> > prompt at the start. If someone issued a "cd" command to the subprocess,
> > the prompt would be all out of sequence, and the code would hang.
> >
> > 	You'll also note that the prompt /ends/ a capture sequence, and the
> > next command is the start of the /next/ capture sequence.
> >
> > --
> >  > ============================================================== <
> >  >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
> >  >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
> >  > ============================================================== <
> >  >           Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/>            <
> >  >        Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/>        <



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 19 04:14:12 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:14:12 +0100
Subject: how to return correct value of update stmt
In-Reply-To: <1129680385.808139.97850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129680385.808139.97850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj4v8k$ehi$1@sea.gmane.org>

eight02645999 at yahoo.com wrote:
> hi
> i use odbc to update a table in a database but i always get return
> value of -1
> even though i tried to return an integer. the table is updated though
> ...
> sql = """
>                update table
>                set column = 0
>                where col = "%s"
>                select @@rowcount
> 
>     """  % (var1)
> ....
> try:
>         s = odbc.odbc(connectstring)
>         cur = s.cursor()
>         res = cur.execute(sql)
>         s.commit()
>         s.close()
>         cur.close()
>         s = None
>         cur = None
>         print res
>         return res
>     except:
>         print 'error while processing ', sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value
> 
> 
> how to properly get a positive return ?
> thanks
> 
Is the table actually being updated?

The definition of the cursor.execute() method in

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

specifically says "Return values are not defined". So if you are seeing 
the database do the right thing I'd stop worrying about the return 
value. If exceptions aren't being raised and the database is doing what 
you want, what's the problem?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 00:21:59 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 21:21:59 -0700
Subject: Extention Woes
In-Reply-To: <1129780560.288676.177850@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2273.1129754855.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129777857.676019.263340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129780560.288676.177850@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129782119.830390.235540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well, the point of declaring it as a char was to have it as an 8 bit
integer, as is requested later on in the program. Anyways, I tried
making the changes, similar results. The len value was always right,
the problem seems to be in this com value. BTW, it doesn't give me one
single warning, so I don't think it's a casting problem... I did a full
check, and this can_han variable is right. Hmmm... Other ideas?



From s_siegel at gmx.net  Mon Oct 10 16:38:50 2005
From: s_siegel at gmx.net (Stefan Siegel)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:38:50 +0200
Subject: how to check if file is in use?
Message-ID: <434ad15a$0$26210$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>

Hi all,

can anybody give me (a python newbie) give a hint how to check in python 
wether a file is in use by another program?

Thanks for your effort,
Stefan



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Fri Oct 21 13:43:30 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:43:30 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1129903667.255441.133490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>  
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129853715.441205.322480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86wtk7ty71.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211220250.22209@urchin.earth.li>
	<1129903667.255441.133490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211842340.14125@urchin.earth.li>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, vdrab wrote:

> You can tell everything is well in the world of dynamic languages when 
> someone posts a question with nuclear flame war potential like "python 
> vs. ruby" and after a while people go off singing hymns about the beauty 
> of Scheme...

+1 QOTW

> I love this place.

Someone should really try posting a similar question on c.l.perl and 
seeing how they react ...

tom

-- 
Transform your language.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Oct  5 06:56:57 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 05:56:57 -0500
Subject: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17219.45433.420666.124143@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    beza1e1> class A:
    beza1e1>    def __init__(self, lst=[]):
    beza1e1>       self.lst = lst

Lists are mutable and default args are only evaluated once, at function
definition.  If you want independent default args use:

    class A:
        def __init__(self, lst=None):
            if lst is None:
                lst = []
            self.lst = lst

The same scheme would work for other mutable types (dicts, sets, etc).

This same question gets asked once a month or so.  I'm sure this is in the
Python FAQ (check the website), but it was faster to reply than to look it
up...

Skip


From Jeremy.Martin at noaa.gov  Wed Oct 26 23:55:57 2005
From: Jeremy.Martin at noaa.gov (Jeremy Martin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:55:57 -0600
Subject: urllib2 problem
Message-ID: <b062cacbc8.acbc8b062c@noaa.gov crmsg1.crh.noaa.gov>

List, 
 
I'm relatively new to using python for interacting with webpages but 
Ive run into a problem that really has me stumped. I wrote a script 
that would figure out all the variables needed to request data from a 
website. I originally just used urllib.urlopen and everything worked 
fine on my Windows PC at work. I tried the same script at home on my 
Fedora COre 3 box using python 2.4, and whenever I try to connect to 
the site I get the (110, Connection Timed Out) Error.  
 
At first I thought my firewall was causing problems with the script but 
I noticed an odd patten. If the web site asked to accept cookies (like 
the site I need) the script times out), if I point it to a site that 
doesnt it works fine. Ive tried several attempts at using urllib2 and 
the HTTPCookieProccessor and I still have no luck. Can anyone give me 
any advice or pointers on what may be the problem here? I apologize if 
this is kind of a rookie question but Ive been searching for about a 
week with no luck. 
 
Thanks! 
 
Jeremy Martin 
NWS WFO GLD 
 
 



From jbellis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 00:30:25 2005
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan Ellis)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 21:30:25 -0700
Subject: C replacement for Queue module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2398.1129951739.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129944777.362827.147670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2398.1129951739.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129955425.042466.227090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:
> does collections.deque have a blocking popleft()?  If not, it's not very
> suitable to replace Queue.Queue.

It does not.

-Jonathan



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 04:28:23 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 01:28:23 -0700
Subject: Google Not Universal Panacea [was: Re: Where to find python
	c-sources]
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no> <Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>
	<dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>
	<mailman.1261.1128086363.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h437z7.1wrgc6gzvvc1zN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
   ...
>  >> Are people really too lazy to do elementary research on Google?
> 
> goes a bit too far in imputing motives to the enquirer and overlooking
> the fact that there are some very good reasons for *not* using Google.

It's a good thing you don't actually name any of those reasons, tho:-).

> we're talking male hormones here, since by and large women don't appear
> to have embraced the Python community (except perhaps individually, but
> that's no business of mine).

Anna seems to be doing fine, though.  She's currently taking a C class
at college and claims "the more I know C, the more I love Python" - and
I gather she's evangelizing (and the class is about 50/50 genderwise;-).

> Also, many regular readers didn't grow up speaking English (I was 

Yep -- I'm one example of that.  Didn't stop Google from hiring me,
though;-).


Alex


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Oct 28 16:45:39 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:45:39 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Frame Size
In-Reply-To: <1130522431.305985.89720@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130521112.659385.148750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2681.1130521718.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130522431.305985.89720@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510281345.39999.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Friday 28 October 2005 11:00, Tuvas wrote:
> Okay. I have alot of items that are put on the basic frame already,
> using a grid method. Will this change anything?

It shouldn't. For example

from Tkinter import *
app = Tk()
app.geometry("%dx%d%+d%+d" % (600, 400, 0, 0))
f = Frame(app)
f.pack()
L1 = Label(f, text="Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice")
L1.grid(row=0, column=0, columnspan=2)
L2 = Label(f, text="Barney")
L2.grid(row=1, column=0)
L3 = Label(f, text="Betty")
L3.grid(row=1, column=1)
app.mainloop()

Just grid everything in the frame then pack the frame in the Tk(). However do 
not mix grid and pack in the same frame or it will lock up your app. E.g. 
*dont* do this:

   L1 = Label(f, text="Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice")
   L1.grid(row=0, column=0, columnspan=2)
   L2 = Label(f, text="Barney")
   L2.pack()

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From email at christoph-haas.de  Mon Oct 24 09:26:08 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:26:08 +0200
Subject: difference after remove
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510240602j4916a088s63f4fe34857943d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510240602j4916a088s63f4fe34857943d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200510241526.14213.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Monday 24 October 2005 15:02, Shi Mu wrote:
> Is there any difference if I remove the '/'
> from the following statement?

You probably mean '\' instead of '/'.

> intMatrix2 = [[1,1,2,4,1,7,1,7,6,9],\
>              [1,2,5,3,9,1,1,1,9,1],\
>              [0,0,5,1,1,1,9,7,7,7]]
> print intMatrix2
> I removed one '\' and it still works.
> So what is the use of '\'?

It's a line continuation character. But you can omit it if it's clear to
the interpreter that the line must continue - like when using brackets.

 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From timr at probo.com  Sun Oct  9 04:32:39 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 08:32:39 GMT
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
References: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86ll15nri1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <h9lhk1ti68i408ptirm1ke8jhoigbubru9@4ax.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>
>I think it's time to form a Committee for the Prevention of Regular
>Expression Abuse.

As I learned from personal experience, this is a disease which one
contracts when moving to Python from Perl.  Perl teaches you that the
entire world is a string, and every operation is a regular expression match
upon that string.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From ntamas at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 09:27:55 2005
From: ntamas at gmail.com (Tamas Nepusz)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 06:27:55 -0700
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt vs extension written in C
Message-ID: <1129814875.226834.10260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

I have tried to do some googling before asking my question here, but I
haven't found any suitable answer. I am developing a Python API for a
graph library written in pure C. The library is doing an awful lot of
math computations, and some of them can take a pretty long time
(depending on the size of the input). If I invoke such calculation from
Python using my own extension, the interpreter locks until the
calculation is complete (I mean, it is not responding to Ctrl-C or
SIGINT).

My question is: is there any way to allow the user to use Ctrl-C to
generate a KeyboardInterrupt and cancel such large computations? I'm
assuming that although pressing Ctrl-C may generate a KeyboardInterrupt
in Python, it is not propagated to the user level until the call into
the graph library returns. I tried to add Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS before
the call to the underlying C library and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS after
returning from it, but I had no luck.

Thanks in advance for your answers,
--
Tamas <ntamas at gmail.com>



From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 05:16:15 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 02:16:15 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <djks4r$pth$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<djks4r$pth$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <1130231775.770582.199690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> What happens if you up the limit to whatever you need?

Good idea. I just tried this. Nothing evil seems to happen. This seems
to be a solution. Thanks.

J?rg



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 22:38:09 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:38:09 +1000
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128733382.015447.231300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.02.38.09.408566@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:03:02 -0700, mensanator at aol.com wrote:

> Why not just look at the first letter the user types instead of
> the whole string?
> 
>  if choice1[0] in ('1', 'S', 's'):
>      #do first option
>  if choice1[0] in ('2', 'E', 'e'):
>      #do second option

Is it *really* a good idea if the user types "STOP!!!" and it has the
same effect as if they typed "Start please"?

I've heard of "Do what I mean, not what I said" systems, which are usually
a really bad idea, but this is the first time I've seen a "Do what I don't
mean, not what I said" system.



-- 
Steven.



From schwehr at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 11:38:04 2005
From: schwehr at gmail.com (schwehr at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:38:04 -0700
Subject: Math markup in code documentation?
In-Reply-To: <435e4fe3$1@news.uni-ulm.de>
References: <1130251116.027733.123750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435e4fe3$1@news.uni-ulm.de>
Message-ID: <1130254684.031546.16930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Awesome!!!  When did doxygen start supporting python?  I was really
into doxygen last year, but stopped using it when I started doing a lot
of coding in python.

Thanks!!!!
-kurt



From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 20:26:41 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 00:26:41 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote:

> 
> "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
> news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
>> "Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
>>>If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be
>>>no other software manufacturers at all.
>>
>> This is wrong.  The dictionary definition of a monopoly is when a
>> manufacturer has all or nearly all of a market.  Microsoft DOES have
>> a monopoly on PC operating systems.
>>
>> That, in itself, is not necessarily illegal.  However, Microsoft then
>> USED that monopoly power to stifle their competition, and that IS
>> illegal. 
>>
>> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
>> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
>> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
>>
> 
> It may not be worth loads of money in-and-of itself now (don't forget 
> Netscape wasn't always free, though), but if you control how people
> view the Internet you can make a lot of money in other ways,
> especially if you build your browser into your operating system and
> warp standards

Which standards? W3C doesn't make standards (they talk about working 
drafts and recommendations), so nothing to warp there for MS.

> so that people who design sites take advantage of the
> proprietary features.

Yup, Netscape did the same, remember LiveScript (renamed to JavaScript 
for obvious reasons), and the elements they added? (Like the, horror, 
blink)

> Eventually the hope is that your OS and browser
> will become the only means of accessing the internet. And if your OS
> and browser are the only way to access the Internet, who in their
> right mind would use another system? 

It's not happening, so what are you talking about? Any developer hoping 
the above has no clue what he/she is developing.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From http  Tue Oct  4 18:22:21 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 15:22:21 -0700
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xbr25xbot.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<11k5qpiri213s59@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xslvhj7xq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<11k5tpkffpf1567@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.1474.1128463536.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xpsqkhqhu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
> > IIRC, you just call bind() with a port number of zero, and then
> > use some method-or-other on the bound socket to find out what
> > port it's bound to.
> 
> >>> s = socket.socket()
> >>> s.bind(("", 0))
> >>> s.getsockaddr()
> ("0.0.0.0", 4711)

Nice.  Thanks.


From neyfakh at uic.edu  Fri Oct 28 23:00:31 2005
From: neyfakh at uic.edu (Alex Neyfakh)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 03:00:31 -0000
Subject: pickling classes with __slots__
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20051128215226.01b9ff70@mailserv.uic.edu>

I would greatly appreciate an advice on the following matter that was very 
much discussed circa 2002 but in all this discussion I could not find the 
final answer with a code example.

I have a series of new classes with child-parent relationship and each has 
unique __slots__. They don't have __dict__ . I need to be able to pickle 
and unpickle them. As far as I could understand, I need to provide 
__getstate__  and  __setstate__ methods for each class. Is there a 
universally accepted code for each method? If so, what is it? If there is 
no standard, what works?

TIA

Alex





From none at none.com  Fri Oct 28 03:25:23 2005
From: none at none.com (Wil Hadden)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:25:23 +0100
Subject: a Haskell a Day
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3vmul1hli2t3cuquab99fnlg2g9abqkj3o@4ax.com>
	<djrg94071g@news3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <djsjp4$cq9$1@zcars129.ca.nortel.com>


"steve" <steve at aol.com> wrote in message
news:djrg94071g at news3.newsguy.com...
>
>
> Stupid newbi  wants $1 if you spend more  than 30 minutes on his webshite,
> looking at it you would be hard pressed to spend 30 seconds.
> Anyway at least we know where to find him.
>
>

Broadcasting his antics in Las Vegas is funny though.

Not from the text mind, more the ramifications is he were to say, quote his
website in a job interview, for example.




From sunspire at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 08:14:10 2005
From: sunspire at gmail.com (Max Rybinsky)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 05:14:10 -0800
Subject: lambda functions within list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <1130677633.449893.131080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130621124.101346.67750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57711.1t6uely1atckigN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130624219.667062.290740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57c0h.kcl38fefrcdrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130677633.449893.131080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130678050.197762.161660@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Valid link in my previews message is

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-September/056669.html

Sorry.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct  3 04:09:32 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:09:32 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xxbgj4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4340dfd2.3069694347@news.oz.net>

On 03 Oct 2005 00:22:22 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>"El Pitonero" <pitonero at gmail.com> writes:
>> The thing is, there are two sides to every coin. Features surely can
>> be viewed as "goodies", or they can be viewed as "handcuffs".
>
>Let's see, say I'm a bank manager, and I want to close my cash vault
>at 5pm today and set its time lock so it can't be opened until 9am
>tomorrow, including by me.  Is that "handcuffs"?  It's normal
>procedure at any bank, for good reason.  It's not necessarily some
>distrustful policy that the bank CEO set to keep me from robbing the
>bank.  I might have set the policy myself.  Java lets me do something
>similar with instance variables.  Why is it somehow an advantage for
>Python to withhold such a capability?
>
>> Sure, in these very dynamic languages you can ACCIDENTALLY override
>> the default system behavior. How many Python programmers have once
>> upon a time done stupid things like:
>> list = 3
>
>That's just a peculiarity, not any deep aspect of Python.  Try it for
>'None' instead of 'list':
>
>    >>> None = 3
>    SyntaxError: assignment to None
>
>Why is 'list' somehow different from 'None'?  I'd say there's a case
>to be made for having the compiler protect 'list' and other builtins
>the same way it protects 'None'.  Python won't be any less dynamic
>because of it.
>
I think I can write you a custom import that will prevent the assignment of
a list of names you specify in the code of the imported module. Would that
be useful? Or would it be more useful to put that detection in py/lint/checker/etc
(where it probably already is?)?

Would you want to outlaw 'None' as an attribute name?
Python seems to be straddling the fence at this point:

 >>> class C(object): pass
 ...
 >>> c = C()
 >>> c.None = 'c.None'
 SyntaxError: assignment to None
 >>> vars(c)['None'] = 'c.None'
 >>> c.None
 'c.None'

;-)


>> The upside is exactly the same as the fact that you can override the
>> "list()" function in Python.  Python is dynamic language. 
>
>That's not exactly an upside, and it has nothing to do with Python
>being dynamic.  C is static but you can override 'printf'.  Overriding
>'list' in Python is pretty much the same thing.
>
>> In Python, if you have a private variable:
>> 
>> self._x = 3
>> 
>> and you, for curiosity reasons and DURING runtime (after the program is
>> already up and running) want to know the exact moment the self._x
>> variable is accessed (say, print out the local time), or print out the
>> calling stack frames, you can do it. And I mean the program is running.
>
>So let's see:
>
>  def countdown():
>    n = 3
>    while n > 0:
>       yield n
>  g = countdown()
>  print g.next()  # 3
>  print g.next()  # 2
>
>where's the Python feature that lets me modify g's internal value of n
>at this point?  How is that different from modifying a private
>instance variable?  "Python feature" means something in the language
>definition, not an artifact of some particular implementation.  Is
>Python somehow deficient because it doesn't give a way to do that?  Do
>you want to write a PEP to add a way?  Do you think anyone will take
>it seriously?
I could see it as part of a debugging interface that might let you mess more
with frames in general. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the under-the-hood access
we enjoy as it is was a byproduct of scratching debugging-tool-need itches.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de  Wed Oct 19 10:32:21 2005
From: uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Daniel Schüle)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:32:21 +0200
Subject: parser question
Message-ID: <dj5ldl$k25$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hello *,

I have one format with this structure

A {
        x=1
        y=3
        B {
            z  = "something here"
        }
    }

C {
    }

A {
        x=0
        y=0
        B {
            z  = "other"
        }
    }

are there parsers for this kind of structure?
specially I am interested in all A blocks

just now, I am trying to solve it with re,

pattern = re.compile(r"^\s*A\s*{.*}\s*", re.MULTILINE | re.DOTALL)

A_blocks = pattern.findall( file("myFile").read() )

but since there might be subblocks it will fail finding the closing "}" 
character

Regards, Daniel




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 18 19:28:32 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:28:32 +1000
Subject: Hygenic Macros
References: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
	<pan.2005.10.18.13.32.15.720512@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.2231.1129668471.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.18.23.28.32.379831@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:42:21 -0700, Robert Kern wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:23:43 -0700, David Pokorny wrote:
>> 
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
>>>good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
>>>multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
>>>multiplication). In Python, I have to type
>>>
>>>import Numeric
>>>matrixmultiply(A,B)
>>>
>>>which makes my code almost unreadable.
>> 
>> Yes, I see what you mean, it is pretty confusing. It almost looks like
>> a function that multiplies two matrices and returns the result. 
>> 
>> Have you tried coming up with better names for your arguments than A and
>> B? Many people find that using self-documenting variable names helps make
>> code easier to understand.
> 
> Well, to be fair, his example was trivial. When you have more
> complicated matrix expressions with transposes and conjugations and more
> matrixmultiplies than you can shake a stick at, it gets ugly pretty fast.
> 
>   F = dot(dot(Z, F),transpose(conjugate(Z)))

No uglier than y = sin(poly(sqrt(x)))

And of course it is allowed to do this:

F = dot(Z, F)
Z = transpose(conjugate(Z))
F = dot(F, Z)

Not everything has to be a one-liner, not even in mathematics.


> versus
> 
>   from scipy import *
>   F = mat(F)
>   Z = mat(Z)
>   F = Z*F*Z.H

It's a matter of taste. But calling it "almost unreadable" is an
exaggeration.


-- 
Steven.



From raims at dot.com  Thu Oct 20 12:33:54 2005
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:33:54 +0200
Subject: How to retrieve the filename of a module
References: <1129824268.735371.230910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlfhba.bq5.raims@voodoo.myself>
Message-ID: <slrndlfhni.bq5.raims@voodoo.myself>

Il 2005-10-20, Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com> ha scritto:
> Il 2005-10-20, mku <martin.kuner at thomson.net> ha scritto:
>> Hi,
>>
>> there?s a function inside a module. How can these function retrieve
>> the path+name   of his module ? (The path is most important).
>> That should also work if the module is part of a package.
>
>
> rhymes at voodoo:~ $ cat > test.py
> print __file__
> import os
> print os.path.abspath(__file__)
>
> rhymes at voodoo:~ $ python test.py
> test.py
> /home/rhymes/test.py

Also __name__ for the name of the module

-- 
Lawrence
http://www.oluyede.org/blog


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct  4 19:38:49 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:38:49 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted :
> 
>>I think e-mail should be text only. 
> 
> I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
> HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.

Nonsense. I came to hate HTML emails long before I received spam.

> But HTML is not the problem!

Yes it is. HTML means that after I've specified my email client use my
favourite font, in the size I like, people send me emails that over-ride
my choice. Invariably they use a font I don't even have. 

Even more invariably, they set the point size directly rather than in
relative terms, and they are on Windows, where point sizes are about 20%
oversized. The consequences of this is that text generated on Windows
appears approximately one fifth smaller on Linux, Macintosh and any other
system that uses proper typesetter's point sizes.

Invariably, the sort of people who use HTML emails end up sending you a
forward of a forward of a forward of a forward of a forward of an email
saying that Bill Gates will give you $10,000 for every copy of the email
you forward, and it will be written in light blue text on a background
picture of bluebirds eating blueberries, and at the end of every paragraph
will be a row of thirty animated smileys.

Almost the biggest predictor of whether I will want to trash somebody's
email without reading it is whether they use HTML mail.

> That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>   
> HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
> colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.
> 
> I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext only
> newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.
> 
> Program listings are much more readable on my website.

These are all valid uses of *formatted* text. But HTML is not
formatted text. HTML is a web page markup language -- it is much more than
merely formatting text. That's why HTML can be used for putting web-bugs
into emails, allowing tracking of emails. That's a security hole that
threatens privacy, and is enough of a reason to prohibit HTML emails alone.

Then there is the issue of storage space. I tend to archive emails I
receive. For the same content, HTML mails tend to be anything from four
to one hundred times bigger than the plain text mail would have been,
depending on just how bad the sending mail client is. Regardless of how
cheap hard disks are, how many gigabytes they now hold, if everybody sent
HTML mail, I would be able to store less than one quarter the number of
emails than I could if people just used plain text. That's a significant
drain for businesses that are required by law to store all emails for
seven years (as they are business records).

There is a good argument to be made that mail clients should support a
subset of HTML so as to provide rich text. But even that comes at a
serious cost (animated smileys, urgh) and in my opinion, the good things
you can do with formatted text don't make that cost worth paying.


-- 
Steven.



From entropy at domain.invalid  Sun Oct 23 08:39:20 2005
From: entropy at domain.invalid (entropy)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:39:20 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>

entropy at domain.invalid wrote...
> axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote...
> > In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> > > "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> >  
> > >> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
> > >> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
> > >> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
> > >> property, only they call it "property tax".
> >  
> > >    I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to 
> > > live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me 
> > > know.
> > 
> > Why would you say that - Mike Meyer made a point to which you have
> > obviously no answer. Or do you deny that his comments on this matter
> > of property are true?
> 
> Methinks David simply missed that Mike was being facetious.  (Irony 
> and facetiousness don't translate well into print, as Frank Zappa 
> once noted.)

Uh, you _were_ being facetious there, weren't you Mike?


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 10:24:25 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 07:24:25 -0700
Subject: tuple versus list
References: <1129460775.484350.209520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129472665.701780.222120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

It's simple: if you want to modify the data structure after it has been
created, use lists, otherwise tuples.

Tuples are much more memory efficient, so your program will consume
less memory and probably run faster. So preferably use tuples. However
with tuples you can't do:
t[0] = 'new value'
t.append('new value')
These statements are possible with lists.

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor (http://pythonide.stani.be)



From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:26:32 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 08:26:32 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
	<mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128698792.787399.160460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Test for the existence of one or more matches of the wildcard
expression.

For example:

    Are there any files that begin with 2005?

This doesn't work (wish it did):

     os.access('2005*',os.F_OK)

However, these work arounds do the job:

    glob.glob('2005*')==[]

as does this bash command:

    os.system('[ -e  2005* ]' )

The 1st is not very readable and the 2nd has portability issues.



From brp13 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  7 13:36:08 2005
From: brp13 at yahoo.com (Tuvas)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 10:36:08 -0700
Subject: Extending Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1598.1128594351.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1598.1128594351.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128706567.974729.248180@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Perhaps it would be nice if they could include in the python documents
a link to download a sample code, the one that they were building in
the whole program, or at least a page that puts it all together? I get
a much better idea of how thing work when they are all put together
personally, and then explained individually. That would be the
simpliest thing that would help, and perhaps the files that are
included in the source distribution. Perhaps I might be the only python
user that didn't install the source code that wants to use extended C
applications, but I doubt it. Thanks for all of the help!



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Mon Oct 31 10:41:49 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:41:49 +0100
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndmceka.ck3.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

qwweeeit at yahoo.it enlightened us with:
> I know, but nowadays almost any relevant application has a GUI.

I can't think of any relevant server application running on Linux that
has a GUI. My text processor, email client, Usenet client, IRC client,
address book and agenda are all without GUI too.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct 15 03:01:56 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 00:01:56 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129343741.855770.220940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ln7jcftpk8.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
Message-ID: <1129359716.908157.158720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Keith Thompson wrote:

> "kasimir.g at gmail.com" <kasimir.g at gmail.com> writes:
> > Hm... What does this have to do with Perl?
> >
> > Why did you post this in comp.lang.perl.misc?
>
> He posted this in comp.lang.python, comp.lang.perl.misc,
> comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.java.programmer, *and*
> comp.os.linux.misc because he's a troll.
>
> I wish I could say that he'll go away if we ignore him.  I can say,
> however, that ignoring him will minimize his impact.  In the past, his
> rants have led to long rambling arguments across multiple newsgroups,
> none of them relevant to any point that might be made -- which is
> probably exactly what he wants.

Exactly, Mr. Lee is a self-proclaimed troll
(http://xahlee.org/Netiquette_dir/troll.html). Actually he seems to be
more than a plain troll; the style of many of his posts is indicative
of one or more mental disorders, so he'll probably continue trolling
even if he's ignored. Nevertheless, I agree that ignoring him will
minimize his impact.



From matt.keyes at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 02:23:18 2005
From: matt.keyes at gmail.com (matt.keyes at gmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 23:23:18 -0700
Subject: _BLOCK_TYPE_IS_VALID error in MSVC 7.1 with Boost and Python
Message-ID: <1128579798.623240.150680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,

i'm trying to create an application that both embeds and extends python
through boost.  i've got a rough framework up and running, but now that
i'm finally to the python part i'm having troubles.

Here's a rough run-down of my code:

Base class (pure):

template<class commandtype>
InputHandler
{
public:
  /*...*/
  virtual void Enter(commandtype *pOutput) = 0;
};

Derived class:
class PythonInputHandler : public InputHandler<std::string>
{
public:
  PythonInputHandler(PyObject *pSelf) : m_pSelf(pSelf) {}
  PythonInputHandler(const PythonInputHandler &rhs)
  : InputHandler<std::string>(rhs) //doesn't really do anything
  , m_pSelf(rhs.m_pSelf)
  {
    if(m_pSelf)
      Py_XINCREF(m_pSelf);
  }
  virtual ~PythonInputHandler() {Py_XDECREF(m_pSelf);}

  //overriden pure function:
  virtual void Enter(std::string *pOutput)
  {
    //this is where the nasty heap crash comes in, more below
    *pOutput = call_method<std::string>(m_pSelf, "Enter");
  }
}

BOOST_PYTHON_MODULE(PyInputHandler)
{
  class_<InputHandler<std::string>, PythonInputHandler,
boost::noncopyable>("PythonInputHandler");
}

Now, when the executable runs, this happens:
  if( PyImport_AppendInittab( "PyInputHandler", initPyInputHandler ) ==
-1 )
  throw runtime_error("blah");

  Py_Initialize();

  PyObject *pInit = PyImport_ImportModule("Python.MyTest");
  if(pInit == NULL)
    //...error handling

  PythonInputHandler *pHandler = new
PythonInputHandler(call_method<PythonInputHandler>(pInit,
"CreateInputHandler"));

  std::string sTest;
  pHandler->Enter(&sTest); //big heap crash

  Py_XDECREF(pInit);
 /*...*/

Here is the Python code:
from PyInputHandler import *

class PyLogonHandler(PythonInputHandler):
	def Enter(Output):
		return "Welcome from Python!"

def CreateInitialHandler():
	return PyLogonHandler()

Now then, if i change "Welcome from Python!" to a shorter string, like
"Hiya!", then it works, no error.  As it stands, i get a
_BLOCK_TYPE_IS_VALID error in what looks like the destructor of the
std::string during the *pOutput = call_method... portion of the code
(i'm assuming the destructor before the assignment to pOutput occurs).
However, in the destructor, i do see the data consisting of "Welcome
from Python!"

Now i'm also a complete noob to boost and python.  i've only been
working on this for about 5 hours or so (the python side of things at
any rate), so any tips to improve what i'm doing in addition to helping
with this error is greatly appreciated.  i'm finding it difficult to
find some boost.python tutorials that are comprehensive enough.  If you
can't tell, i'm trying to expose a version of my InputHandler class to
python so that it can be overriden and created from scripts instead of
being hard-coded into the C++.

Thanks for the help!!!!



From fccoelho at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 09:35:03 2005
From: fccoelho at gmail.com (Flavio)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 06:35:03 -0700
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <di3757$oql$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<di3757$oql$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1128605703.628601.140890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I wish all my problems involved just a couple of variables, but
unfortunately the real interesting problems tend to be complex...

As a last resort this problem could be solved by something like this:

def fun(**kw):
    a = 100
    for k,v in kw.items():
        exec('%s = %s'%(k,v))
    print locals()


>>> fun(**{'a':1,'b':2})
{'a': 1, 'k': 'b', 'b': 2, 'kw': {'a': 1, 'b': 2}, 'v': 2}

But that would be utterly stupid! So much for not being able to write
to locals()....

any better Ideas?



From dont at spam.me  Thu Oct 13 16:18:51 2005
From: dont at spam.me (Brendan Guild)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:18:51 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<b89rk1phchi0224ha46cq1k1rqvld2a3jf@4ax.com>
	<11krdosli1jgla7@corp.supernews.com>
	<XFm3f.10321$y_1.7586@edtnps89>
	<11ktbum1ira9le4@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96EE8772BFB9Fbguild31425@64.59.144.76>

Gordon Burditt wrote in
news:11ktbum1ira9le4 at corp.supernews.com: 

> Does the language allow Javascript to open a new window?  Does the
> language allow Javascript to trigger a function when a window is
> closed?  I believe the answer to both questions is YES.  Then it
> is possible to have a page that pops up two windows whenever you
> close one.

This was a problem, but modern browsers implement Javascript in such a 
way that it requires permission from the user before it will open a new 
window.

> If it can reveal my email address to any web site, it's a bug.  If
> it can access or alter my personal files or address book, it's a
> bug.  If it can generate hits on web sites other than that specified
> in the HTML, it's a bug.  If it can open sockets, it's a bug.
> If it can look at or set cookies stored on my system, it's a bug.
> If it can look at or alter the list of previously visited URLs, it's
> a bug.

All of those things seem like major problems except the bit about 
cookies. What possible harm can reading and setting cookies do? I had 
always thought they were carefully and successfully designed to be 
harmless. That's not personal information in your cookies. That 
information is set by websites for the sole purpose of being read by 
websites. Plus, I'm pretty sure that browsers have always allowed us to 
disable cookies.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 09:58:33 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 13:58:33 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-03, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> A language where variable have to be declared before use, would allow
>> to give all misspelled (undeclared) variables in on go, instead of
>> just crashing each time one is encounterd.
>
> Wrong. It would catch at compile-time those misspellings which do not 
> happen to coincide with another declared variable.

Fine, it is still better than python which will crash each time
one of these is encountered.

> It would give the 
> programmer a false sense of security since they 'know' all their 
> misspellings are caught by the compiler. It would not be a substitute for 
> run-time testing.

I don't think anyone with a little bit of experience will be so naive.

> Moreover, it adds a burden on the programmer who has to write all those 
> declarations,

So? He has to write all those lines of code too.

People often promote unittesting here. Writing all those unittest is
an added burden too. But people think this burden is worth it.

I think writing declaration is also worth it. The gain is not as
much as with unittesting but neither is the burden, so that
balances out IMO

> and worse it adds a burden on everyone reading the code who 
> has more lines to read before understanding the code.

Well maybe we should remove all those comments from code too,
because all it does is add more lines for people to read.

> Also there is 
> increased overhead when maintaining the code as all those declarations have 
> to be kept in line as the code changes over time.

Which is good. Just as you have to keep the unittests in line as code
changes over time.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 26 03:05:27 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:05:27 +0200
Subject: How to statically link Python with ncurses and readline?
In-Reply-To: <1130278044.241389.177210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130263338.291061.50210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435e78d1$0$2680$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<1130265985.862970.185070@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435ea4ca$0$16638$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<1130278044.241389.177210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435f2ab5$0$5596$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

arve.knudsen at gmail.com wrote:
> What do you mean? A static-only build does somehow exclude that I had
> static libraries before?

No, it doesn't. I misunderstood. It is quite unclear still what you had
been doing: e.g. did you have shared versions of db and Tcl or not?
Did you have linker scripts in place? What was your specific command
line you have used to link the entire interpreter?

In the absence of details, we have to take guesses on Usenet. Sometimes,
the guesses are right, and sometimes they are wrong.

Regards,
Martin


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Sat Oct 15 21:46:40 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:46:40 -0700
Subject: Return Text from popen
In-Reply-To: <34j823-jon.ln1@SuperServer.NerdWorld.org>
References: <34j823-jon.ln1@SuperServer.NerdWorld.org>
Message-ID: <20051016014640.GB4541@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 15, Casey Bralla wrote:
> How do I return text from a standard Linux command?
> 
> For example:  I want to read the stdout results of a typical linux
> command (such as "df") into a Python variable.

>>> from os import popen
>>> p = popen("df")
>>> p
<open file 'df', mode 'r' at 0xf6f685e0>
>>> df_out = p.read()
>>> p.close()
>>> p
<closed file 'df', mode 'r' at 0xf6f685e0>
>>> print df_out

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Sun Oct  2 06:40:50 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 03:40:50 -0700
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
Message-ID: <1128249650.166566.81790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for testing
Indeed it is very interesting :-)

I've had some problems with my ports forwarding and no-ip.org.

Here is then the new address :

http://artyprog.dyndns.org:8080

Regards

Betwise, I live in France so the site is close when i'am at work



From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 17:37:57 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 14:37:57 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128452293.752325.242520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432188.408503.309280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128449405.776337.251380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128452293.752325.242520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128461877.676915.113180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Istvan Albert wrote:
> > I could ask her, "If you can't break it is that good enough security?"
>
> Guess not. Most non-programmers think everyone else who knows some
> programming is a some sort of hacker genius.
>
> Instead come up with a simple solution then explain her how it will
> works. I think in the ensuing conversation you'll find out more on what
> approach would put her mind at ease.
>
> Istvan.

Sorry I forgot to put the happy face at the end of that last sentence.
Yes I'll be a good boy.  :)



From appumail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 05:21:31 2005
From: appumail at gmail.com (Murugesh)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:51:31 +0530
Subject: Help-log in to a web page
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1594.1128589260.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <aM51f.8$nq6.116@news.oracle.com>
	<mailman.1594.1128589260.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zf61f.10$nq6.24@news.oracle.com>


Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

> Murugesh wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I'm a newbie to python.I need to login to a webpage after supplying 
>> usename and password.
>>
>> import urllib   sock = urllib.urlopen("http://xop-pc.main.com")
>> htmlSource = sock.read()                           
>> sock.close()                                       print 
>> htmlSource       
>> In the above code how can i supply username and password to that URL.
>> Thanks for you time.
>>  
>>
> xop-pc.main.com is not an existing site.
> Can you tell me what kind of authentication method it is using?
> If that is the "basic authentication" (defined the standard HTTP 
> protocol) then you need to read this:
>
> http://docs.python.org/lib/urlopener-objs.html
>
> Basically, you need to subclass URLopener or FancyURLopener, and 
> overwrite its "prompt_user_passwd" method.
> That method will be then called whenever the server needs authentication.
>
> Here is a template for you (untested):
>
>
> from urllib import FancyURLOpener
> class MyOpener(FancyURLOpener):
>    def prompt_user_passwd(host,realm):
>       return ('myusername','mypassword')
>
> opener = MyOpener({})
> f = opener.open("http://xop-pc.main.com")
> try:
>    html_source = f.read()
> finally:
>    f.close()
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>  Les
>
>

I tried to view the source,it has,
  ....
 ....
         src="/em/cabo/images /t.gif" height="80"></td><td><table 
align="center" border="0" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="0"><tr id="username
        __xc_"><td align="right" nowrap><span class="x8"><span 
title="Required" class="xc">*</span>&nbsp;*User Name</s
        pan></td><td width="12"><img src="/em/cabo/images/t.gif" 
width="12"></td><td valign="top" nowrap><input
        id="username" class="x4" onkeypress="return 
_submitOnEnter(event, 'User');" name="j_username" size="30"
        type="text" value="myadmin"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" 
nowrap><span class="x8"><span title="Required"
        class="xc">*</span>&nbsp;Password</span></td><td width="12"><img 
src="/em/cabo/images/t.gif" width="12"></td
        ><td valign="top" nowrap><input id="M__Id" class="x4" 
name="j_password" size="30*" autocomplete="off" type="p
...
...

Thanks
Amen
*
*

>
>
>

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From dapgy at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 00:20:26 2005
From: dapgy at yahoo.com (dapgy at yahoo.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 21:20:26 -0700
Subject: String code required please
Message-ID: <1129263625.991136.236320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Does someone have the Python code to pull just the filename and
extension from the end of an absolute path please.

Thanks in advance ...



From daftspaniel at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 15:32:34 2005
From: daftspaniel at gmail.com (daftspaniel at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 12:32:34 -0700
Subject: Help with language, dev tool selection
In-Reply-To: <20051021184736.31FE.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
References: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051021184736.31FE.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1129923154.022805.100370@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi Vasilije,

Try the Python 411 Podcast for a good introduction.

http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html

Cheers,
Davy Mitchell

http://www.latedecember.com



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Mon Oct 31 10:39:46 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:39:46 +0100
Subject: Windows - Need to process quotes in string...
References: <1130771911.508820.82030@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndmcege.ck3.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Ernesto enlightened us with:
> I'm trying to use a $ delimeter

Why?

> I want to send the string parameter:
>
> enable "@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"

launchWithoutConsole("devcon.exe"
    'enable "@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"')

Or, if you should also be able to send single quotes:

launchWithoutConsole("devcon.exe"
    '''enable "@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"''')

> The argument itself is a string, but has quotes inside too.

Then use other quotes as string delimiters. Why would you use
something else?

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:05:30 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:05:30 +1000
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128791665.816053.268100@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.05.30.226519@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 10:14:25 -0700, Phillip J. Eby wrote:

> So, without meaning to, the benchmark author has demonstrated something
> important about Python, which is that writing the obvious thing in
> Python tends to work correctly, even if it sometimes takes longer to
> run than it would take for another language to produce the wrong
> answer.  :)

Which is of course demonstrates two different strategies of programming.

The first is, "I don't care what answer I get, so long as I get it quickly!".

The second is, "I don't care how long it takes, so long as I get the right
answer!"

The smart programmer will understand that both strategies can be the right
one in different circumstances. For instance, the Apollo landers didn't
have the computing power to calculate the right answer quickly enough to
prevent the lander from burying itself deep beneath the moon's surface, so
they used a strategy of calculating the wrong answer quickly, then
incrementally improving it.

I'm told that the Apollo 11 lander's computer rebooted something like 20
times in the few minutes it took to go from orbit to the surface. It would
crash, reboot, and just pick up the calculations from the last one that
completed. Try doing that with Wintel! :-)


-- 
Steven.



From iainking at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 05:12:16 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 02:12:16 -0700
Subject: Looping Problem (Generating files - only the last record
	generates a file)
In-Reply-To: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130317936.377231.208250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I have a problem with the program that should generate x number of txt
> files (x is the number of records in the file datafile.txt).
>
> Once I execute the program (see below) only one file (instead of x
> files) is created. The file created is based on the last record in
> datafile.txt.
>
> The program is as follows:
> ====================================
> #!  python
>
> HEADER = "This page displays longitude-latitude information"
> SUBHEADER = "City"
>
> for line in open("datafile.txt"):
>
>
>     town, latlong = line.split('\t')
>
> f = open(town + ".txt", "w+")
>
> f.write(HEADER + "\n")
> f.write(SUBHEADER + ": " + town + "\n")
> f.write("LAT/LONG" + ": " + latlong + "\n")
> f.close()
>
>
> # end
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
> The datafile.txt is as follows (tab separated columns):
> ====================================
>
> NYC	1111-2222
> Lima	3333-4444
> Rome	5555-6666
>
> ====================================
>
> Once executed, the program will create a single file (named Rome.txt)
> and it would not create files NYC.txt and Lima.txt as I would expect it
> to do.
>
> I'd appreciate if you can pinpoint my error.
> 
> Best, 
> 
> Vasa

Did you try indenting the last five lines?

Iain



From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct  1 02:28:19 2005
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:28:19 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <wfWdnfawGdDOIqDeRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<wfWdnfawGdDOIqDeRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3q6ok3Fddg7eU2@individual.net>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Dave Benjamin wrote:
> 
>> Hooray! After years of arguing over which syntax to use, and finally 
>> giving up since nobody could agree, the Benevolent Dictator did what 
>> only a dictator can do, and just made a damn decision already.
>> 
>> Thank you, Guido! =)
> 
> Yes, hear hear.
> 
> So what made him change his mind?  When the debates raged over PEP 308, 
> he seemed pretty dead set against it (at least by proxy) ...

Raymond Hettinger proposed to change the behavior of and/or to return one
of their arguments because he had been bitten by the common trap of
C and X or Y when X is False.

People were positive about it, but said that then a conditional would have
to be introduced. So Guido considered it again. He says himself that the
greatest problem last time was that no consensus over syntax was reached,
and he solved the problem this time by deciding himself.

Reinhold


From trepca at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 16:03:10 2005
From: trepca at gmail.com (Sebastjan Trepca)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:03:10 +0200
Subject: Localized strftime()
In-Reply-To: <djglge$6rq$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cd329af80510231124g14e8e35ey@mail.gmail.com>
	<djglge$6rq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cd329af80510231303v1a2df712k@mail.gmail.com>

Great, it works, thanks :)

On 23/10/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> Sebastjan Trepca wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to get a localized date format from strftime() but it seems
> > that is doesn't have any parameters for that or any information about
> > this issue in Python docs.
> >
> > For example I want to turn this:
> > 19 Oct, 2005
> > to this(slovene language):
> > 19 Okt, 2005
>
> you must call locale.setlocale first, to switch from the default C
> locale to a locale of your choice.
>
>     http://docs.python.org/lib/module-locale.html
>
> >>> import time
> >>> print time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S")
> Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:38:56
> >>> import locale
> >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, "sv_SE") # swedish
> 'sv_SE'
> >>> print time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S")
> s?n, 23 okt 2005 20:39:15
> >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, "sl_SI")
> 'sl_SI'
> >>> print time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S")
> ned, 23 okt 2005 20:39:32
>
> </F>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From codecraig at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 09:40:09 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:40:09 -0700
Subject: When to free memory for C wrapper?
Message-ID: <1129210809.038807.122340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I have been posting lately about writing a C wrapper so Python can
access my C functions.

In my wrapper function I have something like...

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
    PyObject *data;
    char *result;
    long *d;

    PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O:wrap_doStuff", &data);

    d = get_long_array(data);

    result = doStuff(d);

    return PyString_FromString(result);
}

Now, do I need to use PyMem_Free to free up the "PyObject *data"?

Thanks.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 02:28:23 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:28:23 +0200
Subject: non descriptive error
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net><200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <did1ma$4q2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Timothy Smith wrote:
> i have reproduced the error in this code block
>
> #save values in edit
> self.FinaliseTill.SaveEditControlValue()
> if
> Decimal(self.parent.TillDetails[self.TillSelection.GetStringSelection()]['ChangeTinBalance']))
> == Decimal('0'):
> #box must be checked before continuing
> if self.PlacedInSafe.GetValue() != 1:
> self.parent.Popup("You must place the till draw back in the
> safe","Till draw")
> else:
> #finalise the till draw
> if Decimal(self.TillFloat.GetLabel().split('$')[1]) != Decimal('0'):
> Prompt = wx.MessageDialog(self,"""The correct amount has not been
> returned from the till draw float to the main float!
> If you proceed please contact your manager""","Change tin doesn't
> balance!",wx.YES_NO)
> if Prompt.ShowModal() == wx.ID_YES:
> self.Submit()
> else:
> self.parent.Popup('You have an outstanding change tin balance on this
> till','Change tin')
>
> i have NO idea what in there could be making it have such a strange
> error. it just says "error" when you try run it. there nothing terribly
> strange being done.

the snippet you posted gives

$ python script.py
  File "script.py", line 2
    self.FinaliseTill.SaveEditControlValue()
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

on my python 2.3 install.

are you sure you don't have some weird sitecustomize file on your
machine?  (more likely, it's a wxPython issue.  can you reproduce
this without using wxPython ?)

</F>





From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sun Oct  2 23:33:06 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 03:33:06 GMT
Subject: Unicode charmap decoders slow
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-69AACB.23331402102005@news.verizon.net>

Is there a faster way to decode from charmaps to utf-8 than unicode()?

I'm writing a small card-file program.  As a test, I use a 53 MB MBox 
file, in mac-roman encoding.  My program reads and parses the file into 
messages in about 3..5 seconds, but takes about 13.5 seconds to iterate 
over the cards and convert them to utf-8:

    for i in xrange(len(cards)):
        u = unicode(cards[i], encoding)
        cards[i] = u.encode('utf-_8')

The time is nearly all in the unicode() call.  It's not so much how much 
time it takes, but that it takes 4 times as long as the real work, just 
to do table lookups.

Looking at the source (which, if I have it right, is 
PyUnicode_DecodeCharmap() in unicodeobject.c), I think it is doing a 
dictionary lookup for each character.  I would have thought that it 
would make and cache a LUT the size of the charmap (and hook the 
relevent dictionary stuff to delete the cached LUT if the dictionary is 
changed).

I thought of using U"".translate(), but the unicode version is defined 
to be slow.  Is there some similar approach?  I'm almost (but not quite) 
ready to try it in Pyrex.

I'm new to Python.  I didn't google anything relevent on python.org or 
in groups.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 15:56:19 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 21:56:19 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1774.1128800176.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<aY6dnVCeQcxMh9XeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1774.1128800176.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s4adnT8W1aLnudXe4p2dnA@telenor.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> 
> 
>>Don't think so matey.
> 
> 
> oh, come on.  a site run by some random guy in North Carolina has to be
> safer, faster and more reliable than a distributed communication system that
> has been around since that guy was born...

Yes, of course, my mistake, it's rather obvious now that you point it out.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 14 11:37:59 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:37:59 +0100
Subject: Help with creating a dict from list and range
In-Reply-To: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <diojcm$vth$1@sea.gmane.org>

Echo wrote:
> Hello,
> Here is what I am trying to do. I am trying to make a dict that has a 
> key that is the value an element in a list and the value for the dict to 
> be the index.
> This is the closest I have been able to get:
>  dict((d[0],i) for d in self.cu.description for i in 
> xrange(len(self.cu.description)-1))
> 
> That however does not work. the value for all the dict is 40. Not 1, 2, 
> 3, ... that I was hoping for.
> 
> Am I even close at creating the dict that I want? Is there a better way 
> to go about it?
> 
 >>> description = ["first", "second", "third"]
 >>> for x in enumerate(description):
...   print x
...
(0, 'first')
(1, 'second')
(2, 'third')
 >>> dct = dict((x[1], x[0]) for x in enumerate(description))
 >>> dct
{'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From http  Thu Oct 27 05:09:11 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 02:09:11 -0700
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
References: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <7x64rjs4w8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:
> I have a list of items and a "rule" for ordering them.
> 
> Unfortunately, the rule is not complete so it won't define the correct
> order for any two items in that list.
> 
> In other words, if I pick two random items from the list I may or may
> not have a rule that dictates the order of those two items. The rule
> could be "implicit" in that I got rules for other items, for instance:

That's called topological sorting and any reference on graph
algorithms will describe how to do it.  I don't know of Python code
offhand but it's easy to write.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_sorting

gives a straightforward linear-time algorithm.


From aa at bb.cc  Fri Oct 28 09:55:56 2005
From: aa at bb.cc (Ladvánszky Károly)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:55:56 +0200
Subject: OEM character set issue
Message-ID: <1130507709.2923814103422110fb7a08568f0eb060@meganetnews2>

On my hungarian Win2k, some of the accented characters of the file names
appear incorrectly when Python is driven from the command line. However,
they
appear okay when the same script is running within an IDE. The same problem
holds in the case of text files edited by GUI editors. Is there any solution
in the Python arsenal?

Thanks for any help,

K?roly




From listspam at flowtheory.net  Thu Oct  6 16:18:15 2005
From: listspam at flowtheory.net (Joshua Ginsberg)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:18:15 -0400
Subject: Lambda evaluation
Message-ID: <1128629895.5816.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

So this part makes total sense to me:

>>> d = {}
>>> for x in [1,2,3]:
...     d[x] = lambda y: y*x
...
>>> d[1](3)
9

Because x in the lambda definition isn't evaluated until the lambda is
executed, at which point x is 3.

Is there a way to specifically hard code into that lambda definition the
contemporary value of an external variable? In other words, is there a
way to rewrite the line "d[x] = lambda y: y*x" so that it is always the
case that d[1](3) = 3?

Thanks!

-jag



From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 10:54:20 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:54:20 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.11.22.24.49.911502@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<434cd581$0$11068$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <86hdbmwztv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik at Sun.COM> writes:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
>>Can I remind you that spam is approximately 70% of all email traffic these
>>days? Most of that is blocked by the ISPs, but even so you are obviously
>>one of the lucky few.
>
> 95% - 99% of all email, not 70% (just ask your ISP).
>
> A large percentage of the cost of email is the cost of getting
> rid of SPAM; and that cannot happen without colleteral damage in the
> form of lost valid email, not just because of improper filtering but
> also because the more layers are there to touch the email the bigger
> the chances that it does not arrive.

I'd like to take this opportunity to correct myself. I said that I
(and another poster) "didn't have a spam problem". That's wrong. We
don't *appear* to have a spam problem, but that's just an
illusion. Our ISPs are spending money - as indicated by Mr. Dik - on
filtering spam. They're also spending money to deal with complaints
about spam from their customers - in both senses of the sentence, and
to pay for the bandwidth the spam is eating up. The bulk providers
they buy their bandwidth from also have higher costs to provide
bandwidth for spam.

These costs are passed on to us. So while we may not have an obvious
spam problem, we have one in the sense that spam takes money from our
pockets.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From ms at cerenity.org  Fri Oct 14 20:58:20 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:58:20 +0100
Subject: Capturing audio from a microphone on Mac OS X
Message-ID: <435053dd$0$15050$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Hi,


This might seem a dumb question, but every search I've done so far has come
up blank - with the possible exception of Schtoom. I've seen Schtoom that
does manage to capture audio under Mac OS X, but it's unclear whether the
audio tools it uses can be used independently of Schtoom.

So my question this: does anyone know of a library or simple approach
to capturing audio (any quality :) from a microphone on Mac OS X ?
Specifically something that works with Mac OS X 10.3, with python 2.3 .

Ideally, something like the approach that pyalsaaudio [*] takes would be
great, but at this stage I suspect that the number of available examples
out there is small, so I'm more than happy to take something and adapt it.
   [*] http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyalsaaudio/

I haven't searched for something similar under windows yet, I'm hoping
that's less problematic (famous last works).

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies,


Michael.



From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Thu Oct  6 08:01:01 2005
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:01:01 +0200
Subject: epydoc, variables and encoding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1568.1128543689.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1568.1128543689.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434511fe$0$8498$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>

Kenneth Pronovici wrote:
>> I found a "problem" on epydoc. If I specify an encoding, epydoc not
>> find my global variables, and if I remove it, it work well.

<-cut->

> 
> No, it's not normal, and I'm fairly sure it's a bug.

<-cut->

> Otherwise, you can try applying the following patch:
> 

<-cut->

> Maybe Edward won't like this patch, but since he seems to be
> unreachable for the last six months <sigh>, you'll have to settle for
> my less-than-educated guess at a fix. :)

I don't know why Edward won't like this parch :), in any case it work
well for my source.

> 
> KEN
> 

Thanks,
Michele


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 09:02:47 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:02:47 +0100
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <1128430810.4070.55.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>	
	<1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>	
	<1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org>	
	<1128428782.4070.42.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<43427640.3010707@holdenweb.com>
	<1128430810.4070.55.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
Message-ID: <43427D77.7020503@holdenweb.com>

Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 08:32, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Carsten Haese wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 17:37, Steve Holden wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Carsten Haese wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 16:41, Carsten Haese wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 15:52, Jacob Kroon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
>>>>>>>First let me
>>>>>>>describe the scenario with an example:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>modules/
>>>>>>>  fruit/
>>>>>>>      __init__.py
>>>>>>>      apple.py
>>>>>>>      banana.py
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
>>>>>>>problem lies in the
>>>>>>>fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
>>>>>>>peach.py, and not change
>>>>>>>__init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
>>>>>>>__init__.py. I've come halfway
>>>>>>>by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
>>>>>>>that the instantiated
>>>>>>>objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
>>>>>>>I want it to be
>>>>>>>fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
>>>>>>>If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
>>>>>>>be very grateful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How about something like this in fruit/__init__.py:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>import os
>>>>>>
>>>>>>fruit_dir = os.path.dirname(__file__)
>>>>>>fruit_files = [x for x in os.listdir(fruit_dir) if (x[-3:]=='.py' and x!='__init__.py')]
>>>>>>for fruit_file in fruit_files:
>>>>>>module_name = fruit_files[:-3]
>>>>>
>>>>>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^ This should be fruit_file, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>exec "from %s import *" % module_name
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wouldn't
>>>>
>>>>    __import__(module_name)
>>>>
>>>>be better.
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't see how a working example that meets the OP's requirements can
>>>be constructed using __import__, but that may easily be due to my lack
>>>of imagination. How would you do it?
>>>
>>
>>I was simply suggesting that you replace the exec statement with a call 
>>to __import__(). Wouldn't that work?
> 
> 
> Not the way I tried it by simply replacing my line with your line. (If
> it matters, I'm on python 2.2 here.) First of all, the __import__
> variant doesn't see the submodules unless I add fruit_dir to sys.path.
> Secondly, the OP's requirements are that the classes that the submodules
> implement be imported into fruit's namespace, and I don't see how to
> make __import__ do that.
> 

Please ignore my brainfart and proceed as per your plan :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/


From kn0805 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 19:01:59 2005
From: kn0805 at hotmail.com (ktxn1020)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 16:01:59 -0700
Subject: unable to import os
Message-ID: <1128725698.453813.9280@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi Experts,

I built a scrip file which cleans up the old log files starting from
the oldest till the necessary free space on the drive reaches.

The script ran well independently using Python's Integrated
Development Environment version 2.4.1. When it is called from Borland
C++ Builder 5 with python for delphi version 3.16, it is complained at
the line "import os", but not at the line "import nt". How can
I resolve this?

I wonder if there is a built_in command in NT OS specific to get date
and time of a file. The following command is what I used in my script
mtime = os.stat(Path + file_name)[os.path.stat.ST_MTIME]



From mrmaple at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 15:53:54 2005
From: mrmaple at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 12:53:54 -0700
Subject: MS Word Outline -> reStructuredText script?
Message-ID: <1129319634.407351.27080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm using reStructuredText as a format for some group documentation,
and often my co-workers take notes during meetings in Word's outline
mode.  Does anyone already have a python script that will convert from
Word (or the Open Office file format version of a word document) to
reStructured Text?

If not I've got a fun project ahead of me.

Thanks,
-Jim



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 24 08:03:26 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:03:26 -0400
Subject: testing '192.168.1.4' is in '192.168.1.0/24' ?
In-Reply-To: <1130142091.327886.163710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<JIGdnfUorPN14MHeRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
	<1130142091.327886.163710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ZrSdnca9-IXnUMHeRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> thanks, that is basically what I am doing and since it is a recipe, I
> would assume there is no standard library module for it.

Well, since a Google search for "site:docs.python.org subnet" turns up 
nothing, one would assume not, but it would be hard to prove it without 
an exhaustive review of the source code. ;-)

-Peter


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Oct 20 09:31:44 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:31:44 +0100
Subject: Accessing a dll from Python
In-Reply-To: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <no6fl1pq4vpbpjei7f4vh3bel7j5fbb15o@4ax.com>


[Daniel]
> I tried the ctypes module.

ctypes is the right way to do it.  You need to post your code and whatever
errors you received.  Here's an example of using ctypes to call a DLL:

>>> from ctypes import *
>>> windll.user32.MessageBoxA(None, "Hello world", "ctypes", 0);

You use "windll" for stdcall functions (eg. the Windows API) and "cdll" for
cdecl functions.  I don't know which one VB defaults to.  If you get it
wrong, ctypes will give you an error talking about using the "wrong calling
convention".

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From tdwdotnet at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 17:43:11 2005
From: tdwdotnet at gmail.com (Tim Williams (gmail))
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:43:11 +0100
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <1128976311.779178.304900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128976311.779178.304900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9afea2ac0510101443i4ea5dff8n@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 Oct 2005 13:31:51 -0700, dcrespo <dcrespo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi. I found TSL, a Python Library that supports SRP.
> Do you know where can I find a sample client and server code? Thanks
> for your help.

http://trevp.net/tlslite/

It comes with examples.   I use it in several servers and clients.   
Quite simple to impliment.

HTH :)


From gregpinero at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 00:48:37 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:48:37 -0400
Subject: Pythoncard mental block
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.08.02.06.48.557989@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1128705924.303422.31650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.08.02.06.48.557989@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510072148s11633d59x6ae711f795a7a204@mail.gmail.com>

The Python-Card guys are really helpful, <
pythoncard-users at lists.sourceforge.net>, you may have to register on
sourceforge to get on their list.

In the meantime I went ahead and cc'd them on this. Python-Card guys, make
sure to cc Steven as he may not be on the list.

-Greg


On 10/7/05, Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:25:24 -0700, jlocc wrote:
>
> > Hi!!
> >
> > I am working on a school project and I decided to use PythonCard and
> > wxPython for my GUI development. I need a password window that will
> > block unwanted users from the system. I got the pop-up password
> > question to work...
>
> I haven't seen any replies to this, so even though I don't actually
> use Pythoncard I'll take a wild shot in the dark.
>
>
> > def on_openBackground(self, event):
> >
> > result = dialog.textEntryDialog(self,
> > 'System',
> > 'Please enter your password: ',
> > '')
> >
> > .....but I don't exactly remember how to check if the entered password
> > is correct. Say I hard code the password to be 'hello', then how would I
> > check if this was the input or if it wasn't???
>
> Start with looking at result and seeing what is in it. If it is the input
> string, then just say
>
> if result == 'hello':
> # do whatever you need to
> else:
> # put up a dialog saying 'Password does not match!'
>
> But I'm guessing from the syntax that the dialog instance itself is stored
> in result, so perhaps you need to look at some attribute of result:
>
> if result.userInput == "hello": # or something like that?
>
> Lastly, I might not have used Pythoncard, but years ago I used to use
> Hypercard rather a lot. In Hypercard, the password dialog would use a
> one-way hash function to encrypt the typed response into a large integer
> value. I assume Pythoncard is designed to do the same thing as Hypercard.
>
> So, in rusty Hypercard syntax with Python-style comments:
>
> # retrieve the numeric value of the password
> put field "hidden password" into userpassword
> # put up a dialog asking the user to enter a password
> ask password "Please enter your password:"
> if the result is "" then:
> # the user clicked Cancel, so just abort or go away or something
> go home
> else if the result is userpassword:
> # we have a match!
> go to card "Secret card"
> else:
> # password doesn't match
> go to card "Password failure"
>
>
> Hope this is of some help to you, and I haven't led you too far astray.
>
>
> --
> Steven.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From sharidas at zeomega.com  Wed Oct  5 04:46:56 2005
From: sharidas at zeomega.com (Satchidanand Haridas)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:16:56 +0530
Subject: Confused with module and .py files
In-Reply-To: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4C@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4C@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <43439300.4070500@zeomega.com>

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:

>Actually I am bit confused between the modules and .py file
>How do I differentiate between the 2.
>
>  
>
A module 'name' is the same as the name of your file without the '.py' 
extension.

>For example
>I have a file import1.py, import2.py file
>Which has few functions and classes
>And if I have a class with same name "BaseClass" in both the file
>
>How would I use it if I declare it as given below in my 3rd class
>
>from import1.py import *
>from import2.py import *
>
>
>  
>
You should say :
from import1 import *
from import2 import *

If according to your earlier question, you have a class with the same 
name in two different modules, the better thing then (as others on the 
list have already pointed out) is to do the following:

import import1, import2

c1 = import1.MyClass()
c2 = import2.MyClass()

regards,
Satchit

----
Satchidanand Haridas (sharidas at zeomega dot com)

ZeOmega (www.zeomega.com)
Open  Minds' Open Solutions


>
>
>regards
>prasad chandrasekaran
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- Cancer cures smoking
>
>#-----Original Message-----
>#From: python-list-bounces+prasad.c.iyer=capgemini.com at python.org
>#[mailto:python-list-bounces+prasad.c.iyer=capgemini.com at python.org] On
>#Behalf Of python-list-request at python.org
>#Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:32 PM
>#To: python-list at python.org
>#Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 25, Issue 65
>#
>#Send Python-list mailing list submissions to
>#	python-list at python.org
>#
>#To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>#	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>#or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>#	python-list-request at python.org
>#
>#You can reach the person managing the list at
>#	python-list-owner at python.org
>#
>#When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>#than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."
>
>This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.
>
>  
>


From programmer.py at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 14:52:36 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:52:36 -0500
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510061152i260bad6cx637b848dd0f805bf@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/05, CppNewB <cppnewb at noway.com> wrote:
> I am absolutely loving my experience with Python.  Even vs. Ruby, the syntax
> feels very clean with an emphasis on simplification.
>

Yes.  We all love python, welcome aboard!

> My only complaint is that there doesn't appear to be a great commercial IDE
> for the language.  I've tried Komodo, etc and they are nice applications,
> but they don't feel like they give me the "power" like a Visual Studio or
> Delphi (I wish I could articulate better the differences).    Finding a
> descent GUI builder has been a challenge as well.  Most of them have support
> for Dialogs, but what about more complex UI's?  I may need a resizable frame
> within a resizable frame? I haven''t found a GUI builder with a great feel
> yet.
>

wingide is really nice, but costs money.  It supports auto-completion
in a really intelligent way.  However, it was just too resource hungry
on my laptop - (1.4ghz Pentium(m), 512 mb ram).  Sometimes
autocompletion was just too slow (i noticed the HD spinning).

You're probably not going to find a GUI builder that has a nice
polished feel, like Delphi or Visual studio.  The *closest* thing you
may find to this would be Python's Boa-Constructor
(http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/).

If you choose to use wxPython as your GUI framework, then you may not
need a fancy-schmancy IDE.  I find that xemacs along with xrced work
really well for me.

The toughest thing about wxPython (and wxWidgets) is wrapping your
brain around sizers.  They're easy to understand -- until something
doesn't quite layout the way you expected.  Unusual layouts are always
a programmer's misunderstanding of sizers (at least in my experience).

I recommend trying either wxGlade/xrced for gui building (i find
wxGlade's latest release to be *REALLY* unstable for me in windows). 
Next use xemacs or Stanni's python editor to edit your code.

You'll be amazed at how productive you can be once you *learn* how to
handle building guis with one app, and manually tieing in the event
handlers in your editor of choice.  This will also `not hide' a lot of
things that goes on behind the scenes.

> Other than that, my experience has been wonderful.  Even after my
> complaints, I plan on sticking with Python for a while.

That's great!
jw


From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Wed Oct  5 04:16:30 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:46:30 +0530
Subject: Confused with module and .py files
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4C@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


Actually I am bit confused between the modules and .py file
How do I differentiate between the 2.

For example
I have a file import1.py, import2.py file
Which has few functions and classes
And if I have a class with same name "BaseClass" in both the file

How would I use it if I declare it as given below in my 3rd class

from import1.py import *
from import2.py import *





regards
prasad chandrasekaran




















--- Cancer cures smoking

#-----Original Message-----
#From: python-list-bounces+prasad.c.iyer=capgemini.com at python.org
#[mailto:python-list-bounces+prasad.c.iyer=capgemini.com at python.org] On
#Behalf Of python-list-request at python.org
#Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:32 PM
#To: python-list at python.org
#Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 25, Issue 65
#
#Send Python-list mailing list submissions to
#	python-list at python.org
#
#To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
#	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
#	python-list-request at python.org
#
#You can reach the person managing the list at
#	python-list-owner at python.org
#
#When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
#than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."

This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 07:46:45 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:46:45 +0200
Subject: /usr/bin/env python, force a version
References: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di32r5$rcu$1@sea.gmane.org>

"manatlan at gmail.com" wrote:

> I've got a trouble, and i think that anybody there can help me
>
> I've got a python script which i distribute in somes packages for *nix.
> This script is full of python and need python 2.4 ! And i'd like to
> display a message when the user doesn't have a python2.4 version.

> I'd like to make my script (or a starter script)
> which will be able to detect all python versions of the machine. And
> run my script with the good one ; py2.4, or display a message to the
> user to say her it must install py2.4 ...

the approach used in bzr might work for you:

#
# application boot script

import os, sys

try:
    version_info = sys.version_info
except AttributeError:
    version_info = 1, 5 # 1.5 or older

REINVOKE = "__MYAPP_REINVOKE"
NEED_VERS = (2, 4)
KNOWN_PYTHONS = ('python2.4',)

if version_info < NEED_VERS:
    if not os.environ.has_key(REINVOKE):
        # mutating os.environ doesn't work in old Pythons
        os.putenv(REINVOKE, "1")
        for python in KNOWN_PYTHONS:
            try:
                os.execvp(python, [python] + sys.argv)
            except OSError:
                pass
    print >>sys.stderr, "error: cannot find a suitable python interpreter"
    print >>sys.stderr, "  (need %d.%d or later)" % NEED_VERS
    sys.exit(1)

if hasattr(os, "unsetenv"):
    os.unsetenv(REINVOKE)

#
# get things going!

import myapp
myapp.run()

# end of boot script

(the actual bzr source is shipped under the GPL, but 1) it's trivial, and 2) I contributed
the code in the first place, so I'd say it's safe to "steal this code" ;-)

</F> 





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 20:37:16 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:37:16 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232346320.24000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1h4wbam.7po3qo1j2e8b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
   ...
> What would approximate FP equality even mean? How approximate?

In APL, it meant "to within [a certain quad-global whose name I don't
recall] in terms of relative distance", i.e., if I recall correctly,
"a=b" meant something like "abs(a-b)/(abs(a)+abs(b)) < quadEpsilon" or
thereabouts.  Not too different from Numeric.allclose, except the latter
is "richer" (it takes both absolute and relative "epsilons", and also
implies an "and-reduce" if the objects being compared are arrays).


Alex


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 05:12:05 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:12:05 +0200
Subject: PIL Image can't open png file with "I"?
References: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACBD@torexch.metrigenix.com>
Message-ID: <di82h6$sif$1@sea.gmane.org>

"James Hu" wrote:

> I have png file with mode "I", 16 bit,
> And I tried to open it with im=Image.open("output.png"), im.show()
> I got all white image.
> Don't why?

because all of the PNG file are larger than 255 ?

show doesn't support 16-bit images, so it clamps the values down to
an 8-bit range.  adding a

    print im.getextrema()

will tell you what values you have in the image (it returns min and max).

to scale things down before you display it, you can use something like:

    im = im.point(lambda x: x*(1.0/256))

or

    lo, hi = im.getextrema()
    if lo == hi:
        im = im.point(lambda x: 128) # or something
    else:
        scale = 255.0 / (hi - lo)
        offset = -lo * scale + 0.5
        im = im.point(lambda x: x*scale + offset)

</F>





From david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct  4 04:03:53 2005
From: david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de (David Murmann)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:03:53 +0200
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1418.1128406275.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1418.1128406275.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3qer81FeldcmU1@news.dfncis.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> running a piece of python code as a script isn't the same thing as
> importing it as a module:

I ran into the same problem some time ago and even wanted to post here
about it, but found out that it had been reported as a bug three times
at sourceforge (if i remember correctly). The comments there explained
it of course, but I still think that this behavior is somehow "wrong".
I like to think of the import statement as a way to provide the names
defined in a module to the current namespace, so there is no "this gets
evaluated twice".
Now i wonder how difficult it would be to "correct" the behavior? And
would such a change break any code?

David.


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct  5 19:45:21 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:45:21 -0000
Subject: Can't get pylibpcap extension to build under 2.4
References: <11k8p2btca5m7e1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <11k8pchpfu9e8a1@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-05, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> I've been using the pylibpcap extension module for several
> years, but I can't get it to build under 2.4:

It turns out the .tar.gz file being distributed is missing the
file doc.i and the entire build-tools subdirectory.  If you
grab the missing stuff from CVS it builds and installs after
you hack setup.py as shown in the previous post.

Don't know if it _works_ yet...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'll show you MY
                                  at               telex number if you show
                               visi.com            me YOURS...


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 11:52:15 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:52:15 -0000
Subject: Compile C program -> .pyc file
References: <1129905417.451369.114840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2372.1129908716.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11li3lft3h46d38@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to compile a C program into a .pyc file that
>> has the same behavior as the compiled C program?
>
> unless you find a C->Python compiler, no.

Or a C->Python-byte-code compiler.

> PYC files contain Python bytecode, C compilers usually
> generate native code for a given machine platform.

Generating byte-code for a stack-based virtual machine used to
be fairly popular for Pascal.  [I once typed in from a book a
Pascal compiler in 8080 assembly language that generate
P-code.] Generating Python byte code from Pascal wouldn't be
terribly difficult, but doing so for C would be pretty tough
because you'd have to figure out how to fake all the low-level
pointer shenanigans which C allows (or some would say depends
upon).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Are we live or
                                  at               on tape?
                               visi.com            


From sp1d3rx at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 16:48:25 2005
From: sp1d3rx at gmail.com (sp1d3rx at gmail.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 13:48:25 -0700
Subject: help with sending data out the parallel port
In-Reply-To: <hKqdnZ5E6MSfuPzeRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
References: <MtCdnSUnmpK_vP3enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>
	<hKqdnZ5E6MSfuPzeRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130446105.526862.54680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

You don't want to use Python for that task. You're much better off
using the Microsoft DDK (driver development kit).



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:29:49 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 08:29:49 -0700
Subject: users of pycurl here?
Message-ID: <1128698989.351313.90070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I am having a hard time in finding out how to retrieve information
about
the *size* of files I want to download from an FTP site. Should I
send a QUOTE SIZE command to the ftp server or is there an easier way?
TIA,

              Michele Simionato



From pink at odahoda.de  Mon Oct 10 08:24:59 2005
From: pink at odahoda.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:24:59 +0200
Subject: Question about StringIO
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <didmcq$v69$1@online.de>

Frank Millman wrote:

> I will try to explain my experience with popen() briefly.
> 
> I have some sql scripts to create tables, indexes, procedures, etc. At
> present there are about 50 scripts, but this number will grow. I have
> been running them manually so far. Now I want to automate the process.
> 
> I am supporting PostgreSQL and MS SQL Server, and the syntax is
> slightly different in some cases. Rather than maintain two sets of
> scripts, I prefix some lines with -pg- or -ms- to indicate the
> platform, and then use Python to parse the scripts and generate a
> correct output for each platform, passing it to 'psql' and 'osql'
> respectively, using popen().
> 
> I have had a few problems, but it would take too long to describe them
> all, and I just want a working solution, so I will focus on my latest
> attempt.
> 
> I run through all the scripts and create a StringIO object with the
> string I want to pass. It is about 250 000 bytes long. If I run psql
> using popen(), and pass it the string via stdin, it works fine, but I
> get all the messages on the screen. If I do the same, but end the
> command with ' > fjm 2>&1' it works correctly and the messages end up
> in the file fjm, which is about 40 000 bytes long. If I run it with
> popen4(), it starts ok, but then hangs about 1/4 of the way through.
> Exactly the same happens on MSW. It seems to be hitting a limit on the
> size of the stdout file - is that possible?
> 
> For my purposes, I will be happy to use popen() and a choice of no
> redirection, redirect to a file, or redirect to /dev/null. The question
> about popen4() is therefore academic, though I would be interested to
> know the answer.

That's probably a deadlock as described in
<http://docs.python.org/lib/popen2-flow-control.html>

> BTW, is there an equivalent of /dev/null on MSW?

Dunno - but as a last resort, you could create a tempfile with a unique name
(to be sure, not to override any existing data), dump your output there and
later os.unlink() it...

-- 
Benjamin Niemann
Email: pink at odahoda dot de
WWW: http://www.odahoda.de/


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Oct  8 10:29:44 2005
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 15:29:44 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "Britishaccent"...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1749.1128764647.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>	<di5vs8$dk1$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>	<4346c5a8.0@entanet>
	<mailman.1749.1128764647.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4347d9ed.0@entanet>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Duncan Smith wrote:
> 
>> Rocco Moretti wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>
>> So English is spoken only in the South East of England, except London?
>> I think you should also disbar the queen (unless she's already
>> classified as a Londoner), due to her apparent confusion between the 1st
>> person singular and 1st person plural :-).
>>
> There are special rules for the monarchs, who are expected to refer to
> themselves in the first person plural.
> 
> Oscar Wilde understood this. When he boasted that he could speak
> extempore for a minute on any subject of a challenger's choosing someone
> shouted "The Queen", to which he replied "The Queen, sir, is not a
> subject".
> 

Yes, although I'm not actually sure where the 'royal we' comes from; and
we (Brits) are technically subjects rather than citizens.  But if
northerners are not English speakers because we use words like 'aye'
(although we say far less understandable things than that) I think the
queen should be similarly classified for using the 'royal we'  :-).

Duncan


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Wed Oct 26 16:07:39 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:07:39 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
> news:5am333-iia.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>>> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
>>> news:0hm233-0ut.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>>>     I don't know what drugs you're on, but the McDonald's corporation 
>>> most
>>> certainly is in the business of the wholesale distribution of burger
>>> patties. One key reason to become a franchisee is to access their 
>>> wholesale
>>> distribution network.

>> Then they are not in the wholesale business. So lock the drugs cabinet.

>> (What they are marketting is a "brand", complete with clowns and
>> arches, and a secret formula for making up patties in buns).

>     So is Microsoft, except the clowns write the software.

No they aren't.  A pc o/s is something you load on an IBM pc, and an IBM
pc is an open format.  There is no "microsoft computer", and there is no
such thing as a "microsoft computer shop". 

The closest you can get to a complete closed branding in that field, is,
coincidentally, an apple o/s, and an apple computer, and an apple
computer shop.  And that's because apple make the confusers in question,
and their o/s.  However, I don't think they can stop the shops which
sell apples from mselling pcs too, but then I have never had the
slightest inclination to buy a "brand" like an apple, so I have never
looked, so I don't have an inkling if that is so or not.

> When a shop sells 
> machines that ship with Microsoft Windows, it is to some extent the power of 
> Microsoft's brand that brings them into the shop.

No it isn't. Quite the opposite - look at a computer shop or a
computer advert, and you will see "Pentium 4 3.4GHz 1MB cache, 1GB DDR
RAM", etc. etc.

Really - bar all the argument-shifting and picking up from nonsense
points, I wish I could find some kernel of sensibleness in your
argument because at times in the past you have acted sane. But not
here! If you have an argument, out with the bones of it.  What is it?
Something like "MS can do anything they like to make a profit"? No -
they can't. Is it "MS can't be criticised for behaving like mad bad
bullies"? Uh, uh, yes they can. And so on. What IS your line?

Peter


From whzhao at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 05:15:00 2005
From: whzhao at gmail.com (Wenhua Zhao)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:15:00 +0800
Subject: How to create temp file in memory???
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1539.1128524487.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
	<mailman.1539.1128524487.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di0ql0$21i$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>

I have a list of lines. I want to feed these lines into a function.
The input of this function is a file.
I want to creat a temp file on disk, and write the list of lines into 
this temp file, then reopen the file and feed it to the function.
Can I create a this temp file on memory???



Jeremy Jones wrote:
> Wenhua Zhao wrote:
> 
>> A.T.T
>>
>> Thanks a lot.
>>  
>>
> If you could elaborate a bit more, it might be helpful.  I'm guessing 
> you want something like StringIO or cStringIO.
> 
> 
> - jmj


From bj_666 at gmx.net  Wed Oct 19 16:54:16 2005
From: bj_666 at gmx.net (Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:54:16 +0200
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.19.20.54.13.987196@gmx.net>

In <1129751462.061785.124830 at g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, pranab_bajpai
wrote:

> So I want to define a method that takes a "boolean" in a module, eg.
> 
> def getDBName(l2):
> ...

Is that a 12 or l2?

> Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?
> 
> Eg.
> x = 10 # makes it an INT
> whereas
> x = "hello" # makes it a string

No, think of `x` as a *name*.  The name has *no* type.  The objects you
bind to that name have a type.  So 10 is an int and "hello" is a string.

> I take it, the parameters to a function (in the above example "l2") are
> bound in the definition, rather than as invoked.

If you invoke the function then the parameter is bound to an object.  This
object has a type.

> So, if I use "l2" thus:
> 
> if (l2): # only then does it make it a boolean?

Here `l2` is treated as a boolean.  If it is an integer then 0 is false,
everything else is true, if it is a list, dictionary or string then an
"empty" object is false, everything else is true.  Otherwise it depends on
the existence and return value of either a `__nonzero__()` or the
`__len__()` method.  See the docs for details.

> and if I did,
> 
> if (l2 = "hello"): # would it become string?

It would become a syntax error.  No assignement allowed there.

> and what if I never used it in the definition body?

Again: The objects have types, the names not.  A string that is never used
remains a string.

Ciao,
	Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


From python_it at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 06:03:43 2005
From: python_it at hotmail.com (Python_it)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 03:03:43 -0700
Subject: mod_python mptest.py works publisher not
Message-ID: <1129111423.099038.256560@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm going to work with mod_python.

I install mod_python 3.2.2b for python 2.4.

If i test my install with
mptest.py
see this link:
http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-3.2.2b/doc-html/modpython.html
IT WORKS!

But if i try this:

<Directory "C:\.......">
AddHandler mod_python .py
PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
PythonDebug On
</Directory>

http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-3.2.2b/doc-html/tut-pub.html

It don't work!

I Get the following message:

Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.publisher"

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\apache.py", line 299, in
HandlerDispatch
    result = object(req)

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\publisher.py", line 204, in
handler
    module = page_cache[req]

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\cache.py", line 77, in
__getitem__
    return self._checkitem(name)[2]

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\cache.py", line 119, in
_checkitem
    value = self.build(key, name, opened, entry)

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\publisher.py", line 77, in
build
    return ModuleCache.build(self, key, req, opened, entry)

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\cache.py", line 367, in
build
    module = new.module(re_not_word.sub('_',key))

AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'module'


HELP?



From martin.witte at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 11:53:08 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 08:53:08 -0700
Subject: Problems with properties
In-Reply-To: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <1129305188.746872.69980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you change it to this it works. You should provide a get and a set
function for a property.

class Task:
   def __init__(self, value):
     self._command = value

   def setCommand(self, value):
     self._command = value


   def getCommand(self):
     return self._command

   command=property(getCommand, setCommand)

class taskTest(TestCase):
     def testTask(self):
         t = Task("dir c:")
         c = t.command
         self.assertEquals("dir c:", c)

         # should fail, but doesn't
         t.command = "foo Bar"
         self.assertEquals("dir c:", t.command)


if __name__ == "__main__": 
     unittest.main()



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Fri Oct  7 15:56:01 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:56:01 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <QqSdnROT7pV6T9veRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> I need to merge several sources of values into one stream of values. All 
> of the sources are sorted already and I need to retrieve the values from 
<snip>

Ok, after working through the various sources and solutions, here's what 
I finally ended up with:

def merge_sorted(comparison, *sources):
     iterables = []
     for source in sources:
         try:
             source = iter(source)
             iterables.append([source.next(), source])
         except StopIteration:
             pass

     iterables.sort(cmp=comparison, key=lambda x: x[0])
     while iterables:
         yield iterables[0][0]
         try:
             iterables[0][0] = iterables[0][1].next()
             if len(iterables) > 1 and comparison(iterables[0][0], 
iterables[1][0]) > 0:
                 iterables.sort(comparison, key=lambda x: x[0])
         except StopIteration:
             iterables.pop(0)

Thanks to Mike and George for the solutions and pointers.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 12 20:31:42 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:31:42 -0400
Subject: slots? SLOTS?
In-Reply-To: <3r4s3cFhndjpU1@individual.net>
References: <3r4s3cFhndjpU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <aqSdnQ9fo5BBN9DenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>

tin gherdanarra wrote:
> what is a "slot" in python? 

Google for "site:docs.python.org slots":

http://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Adocs.python.org+slots

First hit...

-Peter


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 09:10:18 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 06:10:18 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <8MudnZpGf80SLMjeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
	<1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<8MudnZpGf80SLMjeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129727418.181264.161000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Now that may not be perfect, since I'm not familiar with the TCPServer()
> call.  I've sort of assumed it does something quickly and returns, or
> raises an exception if the input is bad.  If it doesn't actually return
> if it starts successfully, you would need a little different approach.
> Probably adding a simple timeout to the self.startEvent.wait() call
> would work.

It's perfect! Thank you very much.

After the .start() call in the main thread, it just waits until was a
succesfull thread start. It's just perfect.

One more thing, I would like to catch the description string of the
error, so I can show it to the user in a Message Box. How can I do that
in the main threa, once that I allready catched the exception?

Thank you so much



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 09:02:39 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:02:39 -0700
Subject: difference after remove
Message-ID: <1d987df30510240602j4916a088s63f4fe34857943d1@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any difference if I remove the '/'
from the following statement?
intMatrix2 = [[1,1,2,4,1,7,1,7,6,9],\
             [1,2,5,3,9,1,1,1,9,1],\
             [0,0,5,1,1,1,9,7,7,7]]
print intMatrix2
I removed one '\' and it still works.
So what is the use of '\'?


From dashkedar123 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Oct 10 02:16:02 2005
From: dashkedar123 at yahoo.co.in (dashkedar123)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 06:16:02 -0000
Subject: Python Programmer Urgently Required
Message-ID: <did0v2+clv2@eGroups.com>

Job Description:

The position holder will supplement the existing pool of application
development and programming pool of OWSA technical team. In particular
S/he will be responsible for developing Python based overlay
application ? to be mounted on existing software tools and solutions.
The position will report to Team Manager, Training & Technical Services.

Required Skills:

    * A degree in Computer Application, Engineering or another
numerate subject
    * 1+ years experience of web application development in Python or PHP
    * Good understanding of MySQL, PostGreSQL or another RDBMS platform.
    * Aptitude and experience of technical writing and process
documentation
    * Good oral and written communication abilities; and ability to
work in multi-disciplinary team


To apply for any of these above positions, please send your latest
resume along with details of your current role and how do your propose
to contribute in this position. Women candidates with the requisite
skills & qualifications are especially encouraged to apply. OneWorld
South Asia is an equal opportunity employer.

Applications along with a one page write up explaining the suitability
to the job may be sent (preferably through email) to:


Kedar Dash
Team Leader, Web Development
OneWorld South Asia,
C-5 Qutab Institutional Area
New Delhi ? 110016
Tel: 91 11 51689001 Ext 108
Fax: 91 11 51689001

Email : kedar.dash at oneworld.net





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 14:51:32 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:51:32 +0200
Subject: Extention String returning
References: <1130178503.498003.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djjafm$o7c$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Tuvas" wrote:

> I have been writing a program that is designed to return an 8 byte
> string from C to Python. Occasionally one or more of these bytes will
> be null, but the size of it will always be known. How can I write an
> extention module that will return the correct bytes, and not just until
> the null? I would think there would be a fairly  easy way to do this,
> but, well... Thanks!

    return PyString_FromStringAndSize(buffer, bytes);

or

    return Py_BuildValue("s#", buffer, bytes);

</F>





From christian at spam.not  Thu Oct 20 01:50:25 2005
From: christian at spam.not (Christian)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:50:25 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
Message-ID: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Another question from a not even newbie:

In Unix you can set an environment variable with the command
     export PYTHONPATH
but I would like to set the variable from at .py script.

So my question is:
How do I export an environment variable in a .py script?


Thanks

Chris


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 12:04:35 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:04:35 -0400
Subject: Is bytecode machine (in)dependent?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.28.15.25.11.507114@localhost.localdomain>
References: <pan.2005.10.28.15.25.11.507114@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510280904g1a1b0089k58d0904032b7e37@mail.gmail.com>

[Robert McLay]
> I'm trying to understand bytecodes generated on different machines.
> I understand that the bytecodes can change between version.  But since
> I'm told that .pyc files are version dependent but not machine
> dependent, I'm wondering why the bytecodes are machine dependent.

They aren't -- at least not particularly <wink>.

> my friend and I created this simple example to explore the problem.
> The example code is:
>
>   #!/usr/bin/env python
>   #
>   import sys, os
>
>   def main():
>     x = 1.234
>     print x
>
>   if ( __name__ == '__main__'):
>     main()
>
>
> Using sib.py from Vendorid 1.0 generates different bytecodes under linux
> and sgi.  At its core sib.py is using:
>
>        # Compile the code using prefix and marshall it.
>        compiled_code = compile(source_code, prefix, 'exec')
>        marshalled_code = marshal.dumps(compiled_code)
>
> to get the bytecodes.

Why do you believe that `prefix` had the same value in both runs?  The
output suggests it did not, but can't guess more than that from here
since I don't know where `prefix` came from.

> So why are the byte codes different?  Is it that the intel-linux is
> little endian and the SGI is big endian

No; marshal format has fixed endianness.

> and the numerical constant (1.234) is stored different depending on the
> endian-ness?

Python defers to the platform C library for string->float conversions,
and it's *possible* that different platforms could convert "1.234" to
a C double in slightly different ways.  There's no evidence of that
here, though.

> This was generated under intel-linux using python 2.4.2
>
>
>
>
>     /*==========================================================================*/
>     /* Frozen main script for test                                              */
>     /* Generated from test.py                                                   */
>     /* This is generated code; Do not modify it!                                */
>     /*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
>     unsigned char M___main__[] =
>     {
>         99,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2,0,0,0,64,0,0,
>         0,115,55,0,0,0,100,0,0,107,0,0,90,0,0,100,
>         0,0,107,1,0,90,1,0,100,1,0,132,0,0,90,2,
>         0,101,3,0,100,2,0,106,2,0,111,11,0,1,101,2,
>         0,131,0,0,1,110,1,0,1,100,0,0,83,40,3,0,
>         0,0,78,99,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,
>         67,0,0,0,115,15,0,0,0,100,1,0,125,0,0,124,
>         0,0,71,72,100,0,0,83,40,2,0,0,0,78,102,5,
>         49,46,50,51,52,40,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,0,120,
>         40,1,0,0,0,82,0,0,0,0,40,0,0,0,0,40,
>         0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,104,111,109,101,47,118,             /* This line */
>         112,97,114,114,47,115,105,98,47,116,101,115,116,46,112,121,
>         116,4,0,0,0,109,97,105,110,5,0,0,0,115,4,0,
>         0,0,0,1,6,1,116,8,0,0,0,95,95,109,97,105,
>         110,95,95,40,4,0,0,0,116,3,0,0,0,115,121,115,
>         116,2,0,0,0,111,115,82,2,0,0,0,116,8,0,0,
>         0,95,95,110,97,109,101,95,95,40,3,0,0,0,82,4,
>         0,0,0,82,2,0,0,0,82,5,0,0,0,40,0,0,
>         0,0,40,0,0,0,0,82,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,
>         0,63,3,0,0,0,115,6,0,0,0,18,2,9,4,13,
>         1,
>     };  x
>
>  And under SGI (python 2.4.2) it created :
>
>    /*==========================================================================*/
>    /* Frozen main script for test                                              */
>    /* Generated from test.py                                                   */
>    /* This is generated code; Do not modify it!                                */
>    /*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
>    unsigned char M___main__[] =
>    {
>        99,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2,0,0,0,64,0,0,
>        0,115,55,0,0,0,100,0,0,107,0,0,90,0,0,100,
>        0,0,107,1,0,90,1,0,100,1,0,132,0,0,90,2,
>        0,101,3,0,100,2,0,106,2,0,111,11,0,1,101,2,
>        0,131,0,0,1,110,1,0,1,100,0,0,83,40,3,0,
>        0,0,78,99,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,
>        67,0,0,0,115,15,0,0,0,100,1,0,125,0,0,124,
>        0,0,71,72,100,0,0,83,40,2,0,0,0,78,102,5,
>        49,46,50,51,52,40,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,0,120,
>        40,1,0,0,0,82,0,0,0,0,40,0,0,0,0,40,
>        0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,87,111,114,107,47,118,              /* This line */
>        112,97,114,114,47,115,105,98,47,116,101,115,116,46,112,121,
>        116,4,0,0,0,109,97,105,110,5,0,0,0,115,4,0,
>        0,0,0,1,6,1,116,8,0,0,0,95,95,109,97,105,
>        110,95,95,40,4,0,0,0,116,3,0,0,0,115,121,115,
>        116,2,0,0,0,111,115,82,2,0,0,0,116,8,0,0,
>        0,95,95,110,97,109,101,95,95,40,3,0,0,0,82,4,
>        0,0,0,82,2,0,0,0,82,5,0,0,0,40,0,0,
>        0,0,40,0,0,0,0,82,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,
>        0,63,3,0,0,0,115,6,0,0,0,18,2,9,4,13,
>        1,
>    };
>
>
> The difference between the two is very slight:
>
> 18c18
> <     0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,104,111,109,101,47,118,
> ---
> >     0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,87,111,114,107,47,118,

Stare at this:

>>> ''.join(map(chr, [47,104,111,109,101,47,118]))
'/home/v'
>>> ''.join(map(chr, [47,87,111,114,107,47,118]))
'/Work/v'

It _suggests_ that `prefix` contained the substring "/home/" on one
box but ""/Work/" on the other.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 11 09:22:09 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:22:09 +1000
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<p90jk1tspllkptk5q0jsag7gjo0fhb1aj9@4ax.com>
	<1128988055.798016.147970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.13.22.09.17302@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:47:35 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:

>> The difficulty is that the target architecture in not realized in hardware.
> 
> Or isn't perhaps feasible/viable for hardware realisation: one of the
> EuroPython speakers dangled the promise of hardware support for
> high-level languages (the classic "Python on a chip" concept), but
> there are probably plenty of areas where hardware support can assist
> software virtual machines without going to all the trouble of
> implementing such virtual machines in hardware completely.

I remember back in the mid 1980s, Apple and Texas Instruments collaborated
to build a hybrid dual-processor machine. It had a standard Motorola
68000 CPU like the Macintosh, plus a custom TI processor that executed
Lisp code in hardware. I'm told that the reason they never sold was that
the Lisp machine was considerably slower than the software Lisp solution
of the time.

On the other hand, there were Forth enthusiasts who hacked their
Macintoshes with Forth chips, and they went like a rocket.

-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 13:08:06 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:08:06 +0200
Subject: ImportError: No module named dbm
References: <2229.131.123.36.10.1129218983.squirrel@webmail.cs.kent.edu>
Message-ID: <dim49o$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>

mhardas at cs.kent.edu wrote:

> Can you tell me how do I go about getting the dbm module and install
> it.??

http://www.google.com/search?q=trustix+python+dbm

</F>





From http  Thu Oct 13 13:08:15 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 10:08:15 -0700
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>
	<1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.11.21.33.19.546178@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<slrndksub2.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<7x4q7lmk6j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<11kt4ormimmute2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xd5m9qr9c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> Since the NT kernel is descended from VMS, I'm not surprised
> that a fork is expensive.

Apache 2.x supports concurrency via threading as an alternative to
forking, basically in order to get acceptable performance on Windows.


From bedouglas at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  2 11:23:22 2005
From: bedouglas at earthlink.net (bruce)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 08:23:22 -0700
Subject: python guru.. for a short conversation regarding bittorrent..
Message-ID: <009001c5c765$3aa4cb70$0301a8c0@Mesa.com>

hi..

i'm not a python developer, but i have a few questions regarding python
(some quite basic), and bittorrent. i'm looking to talk to someone/anyone
who has experience with the infrastructure of bittorrent, not just running a
bittorrent client app...

the bittorrent mailing lists/groups haven't been responsive, so i figured
i'd try here...

if there's anyone here that i could talk with (phone) who's knowledgable
about these areas, i'd appreciate it. i'm trying to get a much better
understanding of the actual underlying app.

thanks

-bruce
bedouglas at earthlink.net




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 04:45:30 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:45:30 +0200
Subject: "dynamical" importing
References: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj513a$jsi$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joerg Schuster wrote:

> I need to import modules from user defined paths. I.e. I want to do
> something like:
>
> module_dir = sys.argv[1]
>
> my_path = os.path.join(module_dir, 'bin', 'my_module')
>
> from my_path import my_object
>
> Obviously, it doesn't work this way. How would it work?

some alternatives:

- if you want the modules to remain imported:

    try:
        sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(module_dir, "bin"))
        module = __import__("my_module")
    finally:
        del sys.path[0]
    object = module.my_object

- if you're only interested in the object:

    namespace = {}
    execfile(os.path.join(module_dir, "bin", "my_module" + ".py"), namespace)
    object = namespace["my_object"]

</F> 





From gdridi at club-internet.fr  Thu Oct 13 12:39:24 2005
From: gdridi at club-internet.fr (Gilles DRIDI)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:39:24 +0200
Subject: wxPython & Cygwin
Message-ID: <434e8dbf$0$452$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Does someone has installed wxPython on the Cygwin platform, environment ?

Thank you
Gilles DRIDI
http://cdridi.club.fr 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 21:56:25 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:56:25 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

> > Every line = more labour for the developer = more cost and time.
> > Every line = more places for bugs to exist = more cost and time.
> 
> There were studies done in the 70s that showed that programmers
> produced the same number of debugged lines of code a day no matter
> what language they used. So a language that lets you build the same
> program with fewer lines of code will let you build the program in
> less time.

Of course, these results only apply where the "complexity" (e.g., number
of operators, for example) in a single line of code is constant.  There
is no complexity advantage to wrapping up code to take fewer LINES, as
such -- e.g., in Python:

for item in sequence: blaap(item)

or

for item in sequence:
    blaap(item)

are EXACTLY as easy (or hard) to write, maintain, and document -- it's
totally irrelevant that the number of lines of code has "doubled" in the
second (more standard) layout of the code!-)

This effect is even more pronounced in languages which allow or
encourage more extreme variation in "packing" of code over lines; e.g.,
C, where

for(x=0; x<23; x++) { a=seq[x]; zap(a); blup(a); flep(a); }

and

for(x=0;
     x<23;
     x++)
  { 
    a=seq[x]; 
    zap(a);
    blup(a);
    flep(a);
  }

are both commonly used styles -- the order of magnitude difference in
lines of code is totally "illusory".


Alex


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct  8 14:14:39 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 14:14:39 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>

"Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > George Sakkis <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:
> <snip>
> >>Yes, it's a little inconvenient that the builtin heap doesn't take a
> >>comparison operation but you can easily roll your own heap by transforming
> >>each item to a (key,item) tuple. Now that I'm thinking about it, it might
> >>be a good addition to the cookbook.
> >
> >
> > I believe Python 2.5 adds a key= argument to heapq's functions...
> <snip>
>
> I will revisit the heapq solution when 2.5 is released then.
>
> Thanks for the heads up. For the moment I will stay with the list
> solution that Mike came up with slightly changed to accomodate tips and
> pointers from others in this thread.

Just added a recipe at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440673. You can try
both and see if there's any significant performance difference for your data.

George




From prlgarg at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 09:38:04 2005
From: prlgarg at gmail.com (parul garg)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:08:04 +0530
Subject: regarding python and c++ interaction
Message-ID: <f40e94ea0510050638g280d6515tec52b66bf7a660fb@mail.gmail.com>

hi
i am new to python.i hav to call function of c++ .so file(shared
library)on linux.
any how i am not able to do that.
i had made one zoo.so file.when i import it this gives the following error...

>>> import zoo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: ./zoo.so: undefined symbol: _Znwj

can u plz help me in that matter
rdgs
parul


From codecraig at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 12:22:22 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 09:22:22 -0700
Subject: Swig and pointers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1597.1128594118.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128541976.495441.46140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1597.1128594118.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128615742.025901.241700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

(reposting, i was just told how I should properly reply via
groups.google.com)

im sorry, why would it be md_ptr?  what is md_ptr?

i tried..
%include cpointer.i
%pointer_functions(MY_DIGIT, digit_ptr)

ptr = new_digit_ptr()
doIt("a message", ptr)
...doesnt work..still needs a DIGIT **


Miki Tebeka wrote:
> Hello Java,
>
> > ...
> > extern int doIt(char *a, MY_DIGIT **digit);
> > %include cpointer.i
> > %pointer_functions(MY_DIGIT, md_prt);
> Don't you mean md_ptr?
>
> > %typemap(in) (char *a, MY_DIGIT **argv) {
> >   /* Check if is a list */
> >   if (PyList_Check($input)) {
> >     int i;
> >     $1 = PyList_Size($input);
> >     $2 = (MY_DIGIT **) malloc(($1+1)*sizeof(long *));
> >     for (i = 0; i < $1; i++) {
> >       PyObject *o = PyList_GetItem($input,i);
> >       if (PyString_Check(o))
> > 	$2[i] = PyString_AsString(PyList_GetItem($input,i));
> >       else {
> > 	PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"list must contain strings");
> > 	free($2);
> > 	return NULL;
> >       }
> >     }
> >     $2[i] = 0;
> >   } else {
> >     PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"not a list");
> >     return NULL;
> >   }
> > }
> >
> > %typemap(freearg) (char *a, MY_DIGIT **argv) {
> >   free((MY_DIGIT *) $2);
> > }
> >
> >
> > ..from Python I am trying
> >
> > >> ptr = []
> > >> doIt("blah", ptr)
> >
> > I thought this was the correct approach as described here:
> > http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/SWIGDocumentation.html#Python_nn59
> >
> > However, python comes back and says "TypeError: argument number 2: a
> > 'MY_DIGIT **' is expected, 'list([])' is received"
> >
> > ..any ideas?
> Didn't check it but from http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Library.html it looks
> like you need to do:
>     ptr = new_md_prt()
>
> HTH.
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Miki Tebeka <mtebeka at qualcomm.com>
> http://tebeka.bizhat.com
> The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys



From aisaac0 at verizon.net  Tue Oct 25 02:49:29 2005
From: aisaac0 at verizon.net (David Isaac)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:49:29 GMT
Subject: calling matlab
References: <mailman.1956.1129122707.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129138120.654955.167760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Zzk7f.14701$gF4.3019@trnddc07>


"hrh1818" <howardrh at westerncom.net> wrote in message
news:1129138120.654955.167760 at o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> There is a module named pymat avvailable from
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pymat that provides a limited set of
> functions for intertfacing Python to Matlab.

I think that pymat was superceded by mlabwrap
http://mlabwrap.sourceforge.net/

Alan Isaac




From i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid  Sun Oct 23 18:47:30 2005
From: i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid (Alan Connor)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:47:30 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlo3ku.1ir.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>

"Matt Garrish" wrote:
<body not downloaded>

That does it. From this point on my newsfilter is killing
(leaving on the server) any articles cross-posted to more than
three groups.

To all of the snivelling punks polluting the Usenet with their
verbal diarrhea here:

Shut up and go away.

Done.

(I haven't read a single post here, but don't need to. A bunch
of aliases with no posting histories equals trolls equals verbal
diarrhea.)

And my killfile thanks you for the sumptuous feast all of the
aliases used on this thread have given it.

Do your Mommy's know that you are playing with their computers
again?


AC


-- 
Homepage: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanconnor/
Fanclub: http://www.pearlgates.net/nanae/kooks/alanconnor.shtml


From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Oct 26 03:38:23 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:38:23 -0700
Subject: a Haskell a Day
Message-ID: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

A Haskell A Day: Manifesto

This is my learning notes on Haskell. I call it a-Haskell-a-day. I've
been programing since 1992, and am a top expert at the Mathematica?
language. I've long wanted to learn Haskell. It is my habit to write
down what i'm learning. I will send out a small tip of what i have
learned every day. If you are experienced industrial programer,
especially if you also have experience in a functional language, this
group may be useful to you. I hope you will join me in learning
Haskell.

Note: this is not a tutorial. The daily notes serve best as a
motivation for your own learning processes. Links to appropriate
sections in other reliable texts will usually be included daily.

Daily tips will be gradually collected and organized at:
http://xahlee.org/haskell/haskell.html My goal is to eventually form a
example-based tutorial.

I'm running a mailing list at Yahoo.com. To see the mailing list, go
to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/haskell-a-day

To subscribe, send a email to: haskell-a-day-subscribe @
yahoogroups.com

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 27 05:45:30 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:45:30 +0200
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
References: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<yN08f.7237$7h7.6636@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <djq7jr$jmd$1@sea.gmane.org>

Bryan Olson wrote:

> The usual tools to deal with partial orderings are directed acyclic graphs,
> and "topological sorting".  Try Googling the terms along with "Python".

here's a rather powerful timbot implementation:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-July/006625.html

</F> 





From gene.tani at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 08:45:32 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 05:45:32 -0700
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1357.1128292457.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <nfWdnZFjUI72xt3eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.1357.1128292457.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128343532.940966.202260@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Good question, but Y'know, i don't think i'm the only one using a
threaded mail reader.  Pls don't hijack others' threads.

David Pratt wrote:
> Hi.  Is anyone aware of any python based unacceptable language filter
> code to scan and detect bad language in text from uploads etc.
> 
> Many thanks.
> David



From scapt at unil.ch  Fri Oct 21 02:08:33 2005
From: scapt at unil.ch (=?iso-8859-1?B?U+li?=)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 23:08:33 -0700
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
References: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ocwa.184dksqmnv1q1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129712258.200656.202440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86fyqxw7ev.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1129801276.626944.96230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86oe5kuvg5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1129874913.659158.174720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Sorry for the confusion, I think my example was unclear. Thank you Mike
for this piece of code who solves a part of my problem. In fact, the
sequences are unknown at the beginning, so the first part of the code
has to find possible sequences and if those sequences are repeated,
counts how many time they appear (as your code does).

I have found this morning that there's a software produced by i2
software who does this kind of job, but for telephone call analysis.
Maybe the description could help to better understand my goal :

http://www.i2.co.uk/products/Pattern_Tracer/default.asp 

S?b



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Oct 23 13:23:57 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:23:57 -0500
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <1h4vprp.6l0d8o1yvhiyiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4vprp.6l0d8o1yvhiyiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <17243.50989.915419.314737@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Alex> I've seen enough occurrences of "lambda x: x" in Python code with
    Alex> a generally functional style that I'd love to have
    Alex> operator.identity (and a few more trivial functions like that) for
    Alex> readability;-)

But, but, but [Skip gets momentarily apoplectic, then recovers...]
"operator.identity" is way more to type than "lambda x: x".  Plus you have
to remember to import the operator module. <0.5 wink>

Not to mention which (from "pydoc operator"):

    [The operator module] exports a set of functions implemented in C
    corresponding to the intrinsic operators of Python.

Last time I checked, Python didn't have an intrinsic "identity" operator.

For which reason, I'd be -1 on the idea of an identity function, certainly
in the operator module.

Skip


From james at colannino.org  Mon Oct 24 13:33:41 2005
From: james at colannino.org (James Colannino)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:33:41 -0700
Subject: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <435cc914$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>	<mailman.2460.1130140388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<435cc914$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <435D1AF5.20403@colannino.org>

Kent Johnson wrote:

>import os
>files = os.listdir('.')
>

Thanks, that's good to know.  I still need to use os.popen() for a few 
things, but I'll be needing filenames also, so when I try to get 
filenames I'll use the above.

James

-- 
My blog: http://www.crazydrclaw.com/
My homepage: http://james.colannino.org/

"If Carpenters made houses the way programmers design programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy all of civilization." --Computer Proverb



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 07:55:55 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:55:55 +0200
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
References: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <di0f0b$k9m$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brandon Keown wrote:

>    I have programmed a fractal generator (Julia Set/Mandelbrot Set) in
> python in the past, and have had good success, but it would run so
> slowly because of the overhead involved with the calculation.  I
> recently purchased VS .NET 2003 (Win XP, precomp binary of python
> 2.4.2rc1) to make my own extensions.  I was wondering if anyone could
> help me figure out why I'm getting obscure memory exceptions (runtime
> errors resulting in automatic closing of Python) with my extension.  It
> seems to run okay if imported alone, but when accompanied in a list of
> instructions such as a function it crashes.

a short script or interpreter session that illustrates how to get the errors
would help.

</F> 





From nil at dev.nul  Sun Oct 16 14:28:55 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:28:55 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <diu657$i0g$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:16:39 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:
>
>> Come to think of an experience that I shared
>> with a student who was one of those highly
>> creative experimentalists you seem to have
>> in mind. He had just bought a new PC and
>> wanted to check how fast its floating point
>> unit was as compared to our VAX. After
>> having done his wonderfully creative
>> experimenting, he was utterly dejected: "Our (old)
>> VAX is over 10'000 times faster than my new PC",
>> he told me, almost in despair.
>
> Which it was. It finished executing his code in almost 1/10,000th of the
> time his PC could do.
>
>> Whereupon I,
>> always the uncreative, dogmatic theoretician,
>> who does not believe that much in the decisiveness
>> of the outcome of mere experiments, told him
>> that this was *impossible*, that he *must* have
>> made a mistake...
>
> It wasn't a mistake and it did happen.

Yes, yes, of course, it was a mistake, since
the conclusion that he wanted to draw from
this experiment was completely *wrong*.
Similarly, blind experimentalism *without*
supporting theory is mostly useless.

> The VAX finished the calculation
> 10,000 times faster than his PC.
>You have a strange concept of "impossible".

What about trying, for a change, to suppress
your polemical temperament? It will only lead
to quite unnecessarily long exchanges in this
NG.

>>     It turned out that the VAX compiler had been
>> clever enough to hoist his simple-minded test
>> code out of the driving loop.

But, mind you, his test was meant to determine,
*not* the cleverness of the VAX compiler *but*
the speed of the floating-point unit. So his
experiment was a complete *failure* in this regard.

>
> Optimizations have a tendency to make a complete mess of Big O
> calculations, usually for the better. How does this support your
> theory that Big O is a reliable predictor of program speed?

My example was meant to point out how
problematic it is to assume that experimental
outcomes (without carefully relating them
back to supporting theory) are quite *worthless*.
This story was not about Big-Oh notation but
a cautionary tale about the relation between
experiment and theory more generally.
- Got it now?

> For the record, the VAX 9000 can have up to four vector processors each
> running at up to 125 MFLOPS each, or 500 in total. A Pentium III runs at
> about 850 Mflops. Comparing MIPS or FLOPS from one system to another is
> very risky, for many reasons, but as a very rough and ready measure
> of comparison, a four processor VAX 9000 is somewhere about the
> performance of a P-II or P-III, give or take some fudge factor.

Well, that was in the late 1980s and our VAX
certanly most definitely did *not* have a
vector processor: we were doing work in
industrial automation at the time, not much
number-crunching in sight there.

> So, depending on when your student did this experiment, it is entirely
> conceivable that the VAX might have been faster even without the
> optimization you describe.

Rubbish. Why do you want to go off a tangent like
this? Forget it! I just do not have the time to
start quibbling again.

> Of course, you haven't told us what model VAX,

That's right. And it was *not* important. Since the
tale has a simple moral: Experimental outcomes
*without* supporting theory (be it of the Big-Oh
variety or something else, depending on context)
is mostly worthless.

> or how many processors, or what PC your student had,
> so this comparison might not be relevant.

Your going off another tangent like this is
certainly not relevant to the basic insight
that experiments without supproting theory
are mostly worhtless, I'd say...

>> In fact, our VAX
>> calculated the body of the loop only *once*
>> and thus *immediately* announced that it had finished
>> the whole test - the compiler on this student's
>> PC, on the other hand, had not been clever enough
>> for this type of optimization: hence the difference...
>
> Precisely. And all the Big O notation is the world will not tell you that.
> Only an experiment will. Now, perhaps in the simple case of a bare loop
> doing the same calculation over and over again, you might be able to
> predict ahead of time what optimisations the compiler will do. But for
> more complex algorithms, forget it.
>
> This is a clear case of experimentation leading to the discovery
> of practical results which could not be predicted from Big O calculations.

The only problem being: it was *me*, basing
myself on "theory", who rejected the "experimental
result" that the student had accepted *as*is*.
(The student was actually an engineer, I myself
had been trained as a mathematician. Maybe that
rings a bell?)

> I find it quite mind-boggling that you would use as if it was a triumph
> of abstract theoretical calculation when it was nothing of the sort.

This example was not at all meant to be any
such thing. It was only about: "experimenting
*without* relating experimental outcomes to
theory is mostly worthless". What's more:
constructing an experiment without adequate
supporting theory is also mostly worthless.

>>   I think this is really a cautionary tale for
>> experimentalists: don't *believe* in the decisiveness
>> of the outcomes your experiments, but try to *understand*
>> them instead (i.e. relate them to your theoretical grasp
>> of the situation)...
>
> Or, to put it another way: your student discovered

No. You didn't read the story correctly.
The student had accepted the result of
his experiments at face value. It was only
because I had "theoretical" grounds to reject
that experimental outcome that he did learn
something in the process.
  Why not, for a change, be a good loser?

> something by running an experimental test of his code
> that he would never have learnt in a million
> years of analysis of his algorithm: the VAX compiler
> was very cleverly optimized.

Ok, he did learn *that*, in the end. But he
did *also* learn to thoroughly mistrust the
outcome of a mere experiment. Experiments
(not just in computer science) are quite
frequently botched. How do you discover
botched experiments? - By trying to relate
experimental outcomes to theory.

Regards,
Christian




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Oct  4 21:38:27 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:38:27 -0500
Subject: python plotting with greek symbols within labels recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17219.11923.306205.333546@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    mike> thus far, i've found that matplotlib
    mike> (http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/) can do this, albeit the
    mike> implementation is so poor that you cannot mix standard text with
    mike> symbols on the same plot element.

That seems a bit harsh.  Have you asked on the matplotlib mailing list to
see if it can do what you want?

Skip


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 31 14:01:13 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:01:13 -0500
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndmcc43.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <86mzkp3406.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:

> On 29 Oct 2005 17:25:58 -0700, qwweeeit at yahoo.it <qwweeeit at yahoo.it> wrote:
> ...
>> Michel wrote:
> ...
>> > Linux can run perfectly happily without any form of windowing
>> > environment.
>>
>> I know, but nowadays almost any relevant application has a GUI.
>
> Side note: lots of people would disagree with that. For example, from my
> perspective, almost all relevant applications /lack/ a GUI. (And some that
> has one would be better off without it.)

This brings up an interesting point for scripting unix
applications. One common approach is to provide the application
functionaliity in a library, then wrap that in various ways, of which
a GUI is only one. You "script" the application by wrapping the
library for your favorite scripting language, and the script will never
open a GUI. In fact, it'll work fine in an environment where the GUI
couldn't open at all.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Mon Oct 24 04:57:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:57:02 +1000
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> I like to present code that seems like it should work, but has some kind
> of relatively subtle problem, either of correctness in some corner case,
> or of performance, etc -- and I ask them what they would say if they
> were to code-review that code, or how they would help a student who came
> to them with that code and complaints about it not working, &c.

[snip]

> Not sure whether you think this count as "tricky"... they're typically
> problems that do come up in the real world, from (e.g.):
>     for string_piece in lots_of_pieces:
>         bigstring += string_piece
> (a typical performance-trap) to
>     for item in somelist:
>         if isbad(item):
>             somelist.remove(item)
> (with issues of BOTH correctness and performance), to

Those two are easy. However, and this is where I show 
my hard-won ignorance, and admit that I don't see the 
problem with the property examples:

>     class Sic:
>         def getFoo(self): ...
>         def setFoo(self): ...
>         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
> to
>     class Base(object)
>         def getFoo(self): ...
>         def setFoo(self): ...
>         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
> 
>     class Derived(Base):
>         def getFoo(self): ....

Unless the answer is "Why are you using setters and 
getters anyway? This isn't Java you know."

Oh wait! Yes I do... the setter doesn't actually take 
an argument to set the property too. Is that it, or 
have a missed a cunningly hidden deeper problem?


-- 
Steven.



From spamtrap at library.lspace.org.invalid  Fri Oct 28 07:38:34 2005
From: spamtrap at library.lspace.org.invalid (Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:38:34 -0300
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> 
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com> 
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com> 
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com> 
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com> 
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com> 
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> 
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com> 
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com> 
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com> 
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com> 
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> 
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net> 
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <43621bca$19$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>

In <m3pspt8x2b.fsf at invalid.address>, on 10/25/2005
   at 09:56 AM, joe at invalid.address said:

>Yes, I know, they can do whatever they want, it's not a crime,

Actually, it is a crime and they've been convicted.

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT  <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action.  I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail.  Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me.  Do not
reply to spamtrap at library.lspace.org



From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct 12 13:26:58 2005
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:26:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1873.1128997559.509.python-list@python.org>
	<87irw3l0qb.fsf@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <dijh12$f7f$1@reader1.panix.com>

Chris Smith  <smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com> wrote:
>What I really want to do is take four lines of conditional, and put
>them into one, as well as blow off dealing with a 'filler' variable:
>
>return "the answer is " + "yes" if X==0 else "no"

I would write this as:

return "the answer is " + ("yes" if X==0 else "no")

Adding the parens makes it clearer.  I've long since given up trying
to remember operator precedence (except for the most basic like
multiplication is stronger than addition) and use parens with wild
abandon.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 13:14:55 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:14:55 +1000
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.17.14.54.474318@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:37:09 -0700, usgog at yahoo.com wrote:

> I have a config file with the following contents:
> service A = {
>   params {
>     dir = "c:\test",
>     username = "test",
>     password = "test"
>   }
> }
> 
> I want to find username and replace the value with another value. I
> don't know what the username value in advance though. How to do it in
> python?


Your config file looks like a cut-down mutated version of XML. Maybe you
should use real XML and the tools for working with it?

Or perhaps you should use module ConfigParser? Despite the temptation to
reinvent the wheel, it is rarely a good idea.

If you have already read the config file into a nested dictionary, then
all you need to do is:

py> service_A = ReadConfigFile()  # you must write this function
py> print service_A["params"]
{'dir': 'c:\test', 'username': 'test', 'password': 'test'}
py> service_A['params']['username'] = 'J. Random User'
py> WriteConfigFile(service_A)


Or if you insist on treating the config file as a string, try something
like this:

py> s = open('filename', 'r').read()
py> print s
service A = {
  params {
    dir = "c:\test",
    username = "test",
    password = "test"
  }
}
py> target = 'username = '
py> p1 = s.find(target) + len(target)
py> p2 = s.find(',\n', p1)
py> s = s[:p1] '"J. Random User"' + s[p2:]

That's not good enough for professional code, but it will get you started.


-- 
Steven.



From gene.tani at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 22:12:44 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 19:12:44 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130119964.781740.165780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

http://www.artima.com/intv/closures.html
http://www.rubyist.net/~matz/slides/oscon2005/index.html

It's a read-write closure, a co-routine, sort of a continuation (tho
Kernel.callcc is considered the real continuation mechanism).
And you can make it a Proc object (basically an unbound object you can
pass to methods) with Proc#new or lambda.  HTH

vdrab wrote:
> On a (somewhat) related note,
> I've always wondered whether it is possible to emulate ruby blocks
> using a python generator '+ alpha'. In my limited understanding of the
> ruby block, the generator can inject values into a block, I suppose,
> but what is the block itself? can it be a function? a class instance?
> what would it look like? I am sure someone must have played around with
> this. 
> any pointers?
> cheers,
> v.



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:00:51 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:00:51 -0700
Subject: Can't extend function type
In-Reply-To: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128693651.822764.321010@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you google a bit on the newsgroup, you should find a message
from me asking about the ability to subclass FunctionType, and
a reply from Tim Peters saying that the only reason why this
was not done is lack of developer time and the fact that this was
not considered an important priority.


         Michele Simionato



From jbellis at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 18:44:03 2005
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan Ellis)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 15:44:03 -0700
Subject: C replacement for Queue module
Message-ID: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm working on an application that makes heavy use of Queue objects in
a multithreaded environment.

By "heavy" I mean "millions of calls to put and get, constituting ~20%
of the app's run time."  The profiler thinks that a significant amount
of time is spent in this code -- not just a consumer waiting for a
producer, but actual _empty, notify calls, etc.

Would it be worth the time to write a CQueue module with pthread_cond
instead of Python Condition objects, etc?  I don't really have a gut
feeling for how much bang-for-the-loc C optimization might give: twice
as fast?  5x as fast?

thanks,

-Jonathan



From http  Thu Oct 13 12:54:44 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 09:54:44 -0700
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>
	<1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.11.21.33.19.546178@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<slrndksub2.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <7x4q7lmk6j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:
> It depends on what you mean by expensive -- web servers can fork for each
> HTTP request they get, in real-world scenarios, and get away with it.

This is OS dependent.  Forking on Windows is much more expensive than
forking on Linux.


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct  8 19:56:50 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:56:50 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86psqfmukd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> This is one of the marvels of CSS once you get the hang of it.  If you
> don't like bright red letters on green backgrounds, you can CHANGE
> that. You can change the fonts, sizes etc etc. You can if you want get
> something very like plain ASCII text.

Show us *examples*! Do you create a style sheet for every site you
visit that overrides there classes? What?

> So from an aesthetic point of view, once people learn how it works,
> CSS lets sender and receiver compromise on what the message looks
> like. No other medium gives ANY control to the receiver about how a
> message is formatted.

Sorry, but that's bullshit. The receiver controls the viewer software,
and hence ultimately has complete control over *everything*. If I use
ghostscript as the viewer for ps and pdf files, I can install font map
files to replace all the standardd sans serif fonts with serifed
fonts, and so on. Some viewer applications may require editing the
magic .c, .cpp, etc. configuration files, but that's possible so long
as you're sending something other than pictures of words.

> There is also the philosophical question. When my nephew sends me a
> message, do I have a right to warp his intent even if I don't like the
> aesthetics?  That is part of his message.

If HTML is a medium, only someone really ignorant of the medium will
think that their presentation is preserved. As has been pointed out,
moving the file from Windows to other platforms changes the font
sizes. The physical monitor size, the screen size, the readers window
size, the dpi on the monitor, even the color depth on low-end devices
all change the presentation. The fonts you use may not be installed on
the recipients platform - I particularly like the idea that if you use
a font installed by some application, the only person who'll see it
the way you intended is the guy who bought the other copy of that
application.

So what you're really asking is if you have the right to read his
message on anything but his favorite rendering agent configured the
way he likees it, on his favorite computer configured the way he likes
it.

> Should my email reader fix the spelling mistakes in the emails sent me
> by angry US soldiers?  Or is that part of the message?

I say let Harlan Ellison decide.

> There are three different issues getting muddled together:
>
> 1. avoiding spam

I think what you mean here is "avoiding malware". Spam should be dealt
with before it gets to your mail reader.

> 2. making mail from well meaning but inept friends more readable.
>
> 3. what constitutes a good general style for general correspondence.
> How should you use rich text appropriately.

Well, if you want your presentation preserved, you don't send rich
text, you send pictures of words.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From richard at zync.co.uk  Sun Oct 16 12:47:50 2005
From: richard at zync.co.uk (Richard Gration)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:47:50 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <IoGBLG.HEC@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.16.47.47.90025@zync.co.uk>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:51:16 +0000, Tim Tyler wrote:
> Acorn computers.  Manufacturers of the best computer I ever owned.

I'm willing to bet that was an Arc ... ? I never used one but everyone
I've ever talked to who used one said it was fantastic. Myself I was
pretty impressed with the BBC B ...


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Oct  4 04:27:07 2005
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:27:07 +0300
Subject: Spoiler to Python Challenge (help!!!)
References: <Xns96DE94C62328Civincenthotmailcom@10.15.188.42>
	<mailman.1044.1127862510.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <q5f4k1p5h84l9b207nkrrkc4fg8k365k4e@4ax.com>

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:42:20 -0500, rumours say that Terry Hancock
<hancock at anansispaceworks.com> might have written:

>This works:
>
>>>> bz2.decompress(eval(repr(user)))
>'huge'

>This may have some security issues, though, since it evaluates essentially
>any expression given for user.  I'd be interested to know if someone
>knows a more secure way.

given

a = "a tab\\x09between"

this is more secure than eval:

b= a.decode("string_escape")
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best.
"Dear Paul,
please stop spamming us."
The Corinthians


From steve at aol.com  Sat Oct 15 18:42:31 2005
From: steve at aol.com (steve)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:42:31 +0800
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ (TROLL DONT REPLY)
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dis0kn0cpl@news3.newsguy.com>

TROLLLLLLLLLLLLLL



From tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk  Thu Oct 27 06:32:32 2005
From: tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk (Toby Dickenson)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:32:32 +0100
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
In-Reply-To: <djq8v6$cbb$1@sadr.dfn.de>
References: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de> <djq6r6$b2a$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<djq8v6$cbb$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <200510271132.32831.tdickenson@devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk>

On Thursday 27 October 2005 11:08, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> What I was wondering about is if there is an algorithm that would do 
> what I want? Ie. help me pick the nodes so as to minimize the number of 
> edges. 

To rephrase your question, you want a sorting algorithm that minimises the 
number of comparisons (because a comparison involves asking a human), and 
which takes advantage of any pre-existing rough ordering.

You need timsort - the algorithm behind python lists sort() method.

-- 
Toby Dickenson


From bonono at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 13:27:58 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 10:27:58 -0700
Subject: Binding a variable?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129915678.580934.275290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I think not. temp is a name, not a variable. I believe temp=5 means it
points to an immutable object 5. temp=6 means now it points to another
immutable object 6. list=[temp] would resolve to whatever object temp
is pointed to at that moment.

You can try temp=[1].

Paul Dale wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that
>
> temp = 5
>
> list = [ temp ]
>
> temp == 6
>
> list
> 
> would show
> 
> list = [ 6 ]
> 
> Thanks in advance?
> 
> Paul



From http  Tue Oct 11 17:42:51 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 14:42:51 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
	<1h4a5l4.13vx8k7etyxy1N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7xu0fn6884.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli) writes:
> > Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? ...
> > lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be faster,
> > more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.
> 
> ???  It adds no complexity (it's already there), it's slower, it is, if
> anything, LESS reliable than reference counting (which is way simpler!),
> and (if generalized to deal with ALL garbage) it might make it almost
> impossible to write some kinds of extensions (ones which need to
> interface existing C libraries that don't cooperate with whatever GC
> collection you choose).  Are we talking about the same thing?!

I've done it both ways and it seems to me that a simple mark/sweep gc
does require a lump of complexity in one place, but Python has that
anyway to deal with cyclic garbage.  Once the gc module is there, then
extensions really do seem to be simpler to right.  Having extensions
know about the gc is no harder than having them maintain reference
counts, in fact it's easier, they have to register new objects with
the gc (by pushing onto a stack) but can remove them all in one go.
Take a look at how Emacs Lisp does it.  Extensions are easy to write.


From secun at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 17:13:38 2005
From: secun at yahoo.com (Chris)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:13:38 -0400
Subject: HELP! py2exe error - No module named decimal
References: <MPG.1dc2c961a05f1f8f989688@news2.atlantic.net>
	<43590E20.5020908@websafe.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc3240fc3ea3920989689@news2.atlantic.net>

That was it. 

Thank you so much!

Chris

In article <43590E20.5020908 at websafe.com>, larry.bates at websafe.com 
says...
> FYI there is a separate newsgroup for py2exe at
> gmane.comp.python.py2exe.  You may want to post
> there also.
> 
> Just as a suggestion, put an import decimal at
> the top of your program.  It looks like _mssql
> might be doing dynamic imports in __load method
> which will "confuse" py2exe because it can't
> know about dynamic imports which happen at
> runtime.
> 
> -Larry Bates
> 
> Chris wrote:
> > I've just completed a project using the following (Windows XP, python 
> > 2.4.1, wxpython 2.6, and pymssql 0.7.3). The program runs great, but 
> > after I convert it to an exe (required for this project), it gives me 
> > the following error when I try to run it.
> > 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "EstUpdate.py", line 6, in ?
> >   File "frmSplash.pyc", line 9, in ?
> >   File "pymssql.pyc", line 23, in ?
> >   File "_mssql.pyc", line 9, in ?
> >   File "_mssql.pyc", line 7, in __load
> > ImportError: No module named decimal
> > 
> > However, when I look in c:\python24\lib on the machine which ran py2exe, 
> > I see decimal.py and decimal.pyc.
> > 
> > Can someone please help with this? I'm supposed to start testing the 
> > program today and I can't seem to move past this first step.
> > 
> > Thanks!!
> > Chris
> 


From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Sun Oct 16 14:44:18 2005
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:44:18 GMT
Subject: Problem with Win32all
Message-ID: <6cx4f.48710$Xl2.9739@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

I am running Python 2.4 on Windows XP. My Win32all was working fine until 
recently. Now whenever I run the UI, no other application will start! I did 
all the obvious things like uninstall and reinstall win32all, reboot, etc. 
Any ideas?

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/ 




From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 26 11:47:24 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:47:24 -0700
Subject: suggestions between these two books
In-Reply-To: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <20051026154724.GA2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 26, John Salerno wrote:
> Hi all. I'm fairly new to programming and I thought I'd like to try 
> Python. I'm trying to decide between these two books:
> 
> Learning Python (O'Reilly)
> Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional (APress)

Consider first reading the tutorial.  If you prefer to read from paper
there is a PDF version
<http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/download.html>.

There is also the "Python in a Nutshell" book which only covers Python
2.2 but has a very concise language intro, and will become an
invaluable reference.  I wish I had started with this book; then I
wouldn't have needed to buy some of the others.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 23 19:16:24 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:16:24 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address> <bSa5f.15276$Hm3.12093@fe09.lga>
	<m3fyqybs9s.fsf@invalid.address>
	<435ad152$17$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <qa6ol1thbr2gkn0g9dtne1bvhfl4mi5e5l@4ax.com>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:54:58 -0300, "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz"
<spamtrap at library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote or quoted :

>As well as blame. The commercialization of the Internet was grossly
>mismanaged. Take the InterNIC - please!

As global bureaucracies go, I think they have done a good job.  Can
you imagine herding the cats of egotistical dictators and politicians
from every country on earth who have not a clue about what the
function of domain are?


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From scooterm at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 27 20:43:42 2005
From: scooterm at hotmail.com (scooterm at hotmail.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 17:43:42 -0700
Subject: specify arbitrary library directory directly in code?
Message-ID: <1130460222.700509.195130@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

### Background
In [other programming language] it is possible to specify any special
and arbitrary directory (or set of directories) to use as a source
for custom, user-designed modules.

For example, one can do:
   ### begin script
   ### (located in ../faa/faa_script.xyz)

   ### init script
   use lib "../foo";
   use FooLibModule;

   use lib "../fee";
   use FeeLibModule;

   ### run script
   print FooLibModule::SayHelloWorld();
   print FeeLibModule::SayHelloWorld();

### Initial Findings
After searching around a bit, it appears that python does not have a
built-in mechanism for specifying arbitrary directories as the first
place to look for module code. There are options that allow one to
specify alternate directories, but all these options require changes
to environment variables, or changes (or additions) to the files in
the standard package directories.

But if you define 'built-in mechanism' meaning a change that only
requires modifying the code in 'faa_script.py' ... then there is
no 'built-in mechanism'.

### Question
Are the initial findings correct? If not, can you specify the code
(or the link to the documentation) that specifies how to do what I
am trying to do? If the initial findings are correct, are there any
alternative workarounds to allow faa_script.py to automatically
discover module code in specific sibling directories?

### Constraints
Assume changing or adding environment variables is not an option.
Assume adding files to the standard python module directories is not an

option.
Assume the only option is to change the code in faa_script.py



From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Oct 22 18:37:19 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:37:19 -0400
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130019099.772664.103360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051022223719.27584.958044380.divmod.quotient.2814@ohm>

On 22 Oct 2005 15:11:39 -0700, "eduardo.padoan at gmail.com" <eduardo.padoan at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hum... I thnk you dont get the ideia: I'm not talking abou High Order
>Functions.
>What ho call "High Order Methods is some like "connecting" some
>'generic' methods created to do things like this:
>    claimants.where.retired?.do.receive_benefit 50
>The 2nd and 3rd links that in the first post is the most relevant to
>undestand the concept. Read this too:
>http://www.metaobject.com/papers/Higher_Order_Messaging_OOPSLA_2005.pdf

These are just more involved applications of the same idea.  They're easily implemented in Python, using primitives such as HOF, if one desires.

However, I don't see why one would want to write the above mish-mash, rather than:

    for cl in claimaints:
        if cl.retired():
            cl.receive_benefit(50)

Or:

    [cl.receive_benefit(50) for cl in claimaints if cl.retired())

Or:

    map(
        ClaimaintType.receive_benefit,
        filter(
            ClaimaintType.retired,
            claimaints),
        itertools.repeat(50))

Or:

    claimaintGroup.disburse()

Jp


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 03:40:55 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:40:55 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
Message-ID: <pjhhk1p0lqtduekojm7er9i6g84fjef12n@4ax.com>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:35:40 GMT, Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com>
wrote or quoted :

>If people want me to read their email, they should send it to me
>in an open, universal format, which for email is plain text.  It's
>as simple as that.

This is pulling a King Canute.  There is not even a mechanism in email
protocols to warn your correspondents of your demand.  I have been
bugging Eudora for years for at least a bit in the address book to
record the recipient's preference for plain or formatted emails. They
have so far ignored me.

There is nothing wrong with formatted text. You are confusing
formatted text with spam.

You think you hated formatted text, but you really hate spam.

If your lover sent you a message with photo, and even musical
accompaniment, I doubt you would feel offended.  It is the CONTENT
bugging you, not the HTML.

You imagine that the two are inexplicably linked. That is just because
the technology is immature. There is no fundamental reason that
formatted  spam should have an easier time penetrating your defenses
than plain text spam.  I am using Spamnix.  It think it leaks about
50/50 formatted and plain text spam.

Eudora warns you of deceptive links in HTML. There are many more such
things that have yet to be done to deal with malicious emails.  I
think we should focus on those rather than reverting to the days of
the TTY.I don't think it would buy you much. Formatted emails can't
hurt you if you don't allow them to automatically run any code.  It is
unfair to blame formatting for the foolish practice off allowing
untrusted code to run without even an ok.  They have nothing to do
with each other.





-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 14:38:43 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:38:43 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pjv133-pjn.ln1@mail.binaryfoundry.ca>
	<djlule$gkd$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s8t89FmdnriU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <djoifk$esc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Eike Preuss" <usenet at eikepreuss.de> wrote in message 
news:3s8t89FmdnriU1 at individual.net...

>>     Right, except that's utterly absurd. If every vendor takes their tiny
>> cut of the 95%, a huge cut of the 5% is starting to look *REALLY* good.

> Sure, that would be true if the market would be / would have been really
> global. In practice if you have a shop you have a limited 'region of
> influence'. Optimally you are the only shop in this region that sells
> the stuff, or perhaps there are a few shops that compete with you. Lets
> say in your region are two shops competing with you, and you must decide
> wether to sell product A (95%) or B (5%), but you may not sell both.
> Decision 1: Sell A, share the 95% of the local market with two -> about
> 32% of the local market for all of you, if all perform equally good
> Decision 2: Sell B -> you get the 5% of the market, the others 47% each
>
> This calculation is probably still a very bad approximation of the
> truth, but things are definitely not as easy as you state them.

    It depends upon how different the products are and how easy it is to 
shop out of your local market. If the products are equally good and 
reasonably interchangeable and it's hard to shop out of your local market, 
then you're right. The more the smaller product is better than the larger 
product, the less interchangeable they are, and the easier it is to shop out 
of your local market, the more wrong you are.

    How often do you hear, "I'd like to use Linux, but I just can't get 
ahold of it"?

    And how many people do you hear saying, "I'd like to use Linux, but I'm 
not willing to shell out the bucks to buy it since I already bought Windows 
with my computer".

    On the other hand, where you might be right is in the possibility that 
Microsoft's lock on the market prevented other companies from making 
operating systems at all. That is, that had Microsoft used different 
policies, other companies would have introduced operating systems to compete 
with Microsoft, and we'd all have better operating systems for it. If 
Microsoft's conduct was legal, this argument establishes that the conduct 
was necessary.

    DS




From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 20 15:09:58 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:09:58 +0200
Subject: A macro editor
In-Reply-To: <gKR5f.107432$US.72731@news.ono.com>
References: <gKR5f.107432$US.72731@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <3rq8c5Fl3m4bU1@uni-berlin.de>

> My teammates and I were talking about to use one of Python, Ruby or 
> Groovy. But, we haven't decided which to use.
> 
> What seems to be easier is to use Python, you know.. because of the 
> Jython thing. But, it is probably a mistake to take Jython without a 
> extensive analysis of the all possibilities.

There seems to exist a Ruby java port, conveniently called jruby. 
Additionally, you might consider beanshell.

> 
>  From my point of view, the best choice will be those that allow the 
> average user getting results as fast as possible rather than the power 
> of the language itself. At the end, what we will write is a gateway to 
> access to our application's Java API through the scripts written by our 
> users.
> 
> In this sense, I'd like to ask if someone knows if any of these 
> languages have a Java implementation that supports code auto-complete 
> and class navigation or any kind of functionality that would ease and 
> speed up the user's learning curve and productivity.
> 
> In other words, is it possible to have a small and lightly intelligent 
> workbench window (a mini-Eclipse for example) for our future "macro 
> editor" within our application?

I doubt that will be possible. A language that has no type-declarations 
- that is true for ruby & python (regardless of their respective VM 
implementations) - can't possibly deliver that feature. And it looks as 
if the same is true for groovy.

The only thing I can imagine is that you try and recognize the 
"gateways" to your API-model and provide calltips for names that are 
bound to values from that model.

E.g. if you have a module called "core" that contains an 
application-object that represents your application, you could try and 
identify code like this:

app = core.applikation
app.<here comes a calltip>


However, if the user does fancy tricks like this:

setattr(self, "app", core.application)
self.app.<here you don't know s**t>

So - _I_ think the better user-experience comes froma well-working easy 
to use REPL to quickly give the scripts a try.

Regards,

Diez


From timothy at open-networks.net  Fri Oct  7 00:57:16 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:57:16 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
Message-ID: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>

i try to run my app and i get this

%python DutyShift.py
error


thats it. thats the error. mya pp was previously working, and i did make 
some fairly large changes to it, but i'd expect a more descriptive 
message then just "error". anyidea where i need to start looking?


From martin.witte at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 16:43:08 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 13:43:08 -0700
Subject: datetime and daylight savings problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1893.1129032134.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1893.1129032134.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129063388.896602.260160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

When working with timezones datetime objects are represented in the
tzinfo object you supply, eg. when you define these classes (and run
them on a system set to  Paris time):

from datetime import tzinfo, timedelta, datetime
import time

class UTC(tzinfo):
    """UTC timezone"""
    def utcoffset(self, dt):
        return timedelta(0)

    def tzname(self, dt):
        return "UTC"

    def dst(self, dt):
        return timedelta(0)

class CET(tzinfo):
    """CET timezone"""
    def utcoffset(self, dt):
        return timedelta(seconds = -time.timezone)
    def dst(self, dt):
        return timedelta(0)
    def tzname(self, dt):
        return "CET"


class CEST(tzinfo):
    """CET timezone with DST"""
    def utcoffset(self, dt):
        return timedelta(seconds = -time.altzone)
    def dst(self, dt):
        return timedelta(seconds = -time.altzone) - \
                timedelta(seconds = -time.timezone)
    def tzname(self, dt):
        return "CEST"

And you create these objects:

utc = UTC()
cet = CET()
cest = CEST()
d = datetime(2005,06,01,16,59,tzinfo=utc)

This statement
print 'UTC %s' % d
Will print:
UTC 2005-06-01 16:59:00+00:00

And this one:
print 'As CET %s' % d.astimezone(cet)
Will print:
As CET 2005-06-01 17:59:00+01:00

And this one:
print 'As CET with DST %s' % d.astimezone(cest)
Will print:
As CET with DST 2005-06-01 18:59:00+02:00

Additional:
This:
d = datetime(2005,06,01,16,59,tzinfo=cet)
print cet, d

Will print:
<__main__.CET object at 0xb7d3aaac> 2005-06-01 16:59:00+01:00

And this:
d = datetime(2005,06,01,16,59,tzinfo=cest)
print cest, d
Will print:
<__main__.CEST object at 0xb7d3aaec> 2005-06-01 16:59:00+02:00

So at least with these tzinfo objects everything is as expected, I'm
not sure where your actual problem is, is it in the pytz module (with
which I do not have experience)?



From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Oct 22 04:44:28 2005
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:44:28 +0000
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <1h4s9ug.k3op7dg6c66hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<4354b324$0$21023$636a55ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2208.1129627807.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h4s9ug.k3op7dg6c66hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4359FBEC.3040902@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Alex Martelli wrote:
......
> If (e.g.) __set__ needs to behave differently when applied to certain
> instances rather than others, then it had better be "messed with"
> (overridden) compared to property.__set__ since the latter has no such
> proviso.  Of course, your architecture as sketched below (taking
> advantage of the fact that property.__set__ always calls a certain
> callable, and you get to control that callable) is OK too.

..... I think I at last got this


......
> 
> Why not just fset=self.__notify_fset ?  I fail to see the added value of
> this lambda.  Anyway...:

duh just being Homerish

>>     def __notify_fset(self,inst,value):
>>         value = self._validator(value)
.......
>>     def add(self,obs):
>>         self._observers.append(obs)
> 
> 
> ...this class only offers sets of observers *per-descriptor instance*,
> not ones connected to a specific 'inst' being observed.  My point is,
> you could add the latter pretty easily.
......
........
> You can, if you have a way to call, say, b.x.add_per_inst(b, obs1).
> Such as, adding within ObserverProperty:
> 
>   self._observers_per_inst = {}
> 
> in the init, and changing the notification method to do:
> 
>      def __notify_fset(self,inst,value):
>          value = self._validator(value)
>          observers = self._observers_per_inst.get(inst)
>          if not observers: observers = self._observers
>          for obs in observers:
>              obs(inst,self._pName,value)
>          inst.__dict__[self._pName] = value
> 
> and a new method add_per_inst:
> 
>      def add_per_inst(self, inst, obs):
>          self._observers_per_inst.setdefault(inst,[]).append(obs)
> 
> Of course, you most likely want to use weak rather than normal
> references here (probably to both instances and observers), but that's a
> separate issue.

......
yes I begin at last to see the full complexity of this. There are really 
three possible attachments, the descriptor, instance class and the 
instance. Since the descriptor is attached to the class or a base class 
one could argue about whether observers should be inherited etc etc, but 
perhaps that's a step too far.

Thanks to Alex and Bengt and others for clarifying a bunch of issues.
-- 
Robin Becker


From bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de  Sun Oct 23 07:54:12 2005
From: bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de (Torsten Bronger)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:54:12 +0200
Subject: Problem with subprocess.call and cp
Message-ID: <87wtk430uz.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>

Hall?chen!

The following code

from subprocess import call
call(['cp', 'subdir/*.jpg', 'othersubdir/'])

yields

cp: call of stat for "subdir/*.jpg" not possible: File or directory not found

(This may not be the real error message since it's back-translated
from German.)  I could use shell=True, however, what's going wrong
here?

Tsch?,
Torsten.

-- 
Torsten Bronger, aquisgrana, europa vetus            ICQ 264-296-646


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 14:23:28 2005
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 11:23:28 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1129919008.772705.101920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-21, Ernesto <erniedude at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks.  Can anyone provide an example of using *subprocess* to run
> > helloWorld.C through the python interpreter.
>
> No.  You can't run a .C file

Unless you have a C interpreter installed. e.g.:

  import os
  os.system("eic helloWorld.C")

(Requires eic to be in your PATH.)

I doubt it's what the OP was looking for, though.

http://eic.sourceforge.net/



From kent37 at tds.net  Sat Oct 22 22:08:31 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:08:31 -0400
Subject: Question about inheritance...
In-Reply-To: <1130030731.105360.92200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130030731.105360.92200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435aee91$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

KraftDiner wrote:
> This is what I've got so far:
> class Rect(Shape):
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		super(self.__class__, self).__init__()

Should be 
  super(Rect, self).__init__()

> 	def render(self):
> 		super(self.__class__, self).render()

ditto

In this example it doesn't make any difference but with a deeper inheritance hierachy it does. See
http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#cooperation

Kent


From kent37 at tds.net  Sat Oct  1 08:13:52 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:13:52 -0400
Subject: Not defined
In-Reply-To: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>
References: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <433e7bdf$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Rob wrote:
> When trying the basic tutorial for cgkit I always seem to get a not defined 
> error as follows.
> 
> Pythonwin GUI
> 
> 
>>>>from cgkit import *
>>>>Sphere()
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'Sphere' is not defined

Which version of cgkit are you using?

Kent


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Oct 28 17:42:51 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:42:51 -0700
Subject: newstyle classes and __getattribute__
In-Reply-To: <4362977f$0$7227$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <4362977f$0$7227$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <200510281442.51297.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Friday 28 October 2005 14:26, Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens wrote:
> Hi there,
[..clip..]
> Now, I do this:
>
> class T(object):
> 	def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
> 		self.name=name
> 		self.port=port
> 	def __getattribute__(self,key):
> 		if key=='somekey':
> 			return None
[..snip..]
> But, then surprise:
>  >>> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
>  >>> dir(t)
>
> []
>
> What the hell is going wrong here ?

__getattribute__ is returning None in all cases and dir() is converting None 
to [].

Anyway, you should have done this:

py> class T(object):
...     def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
...             self.name=name
...     def __getattribute__(self,key):
...             if key=='somekey':
...                     return None
...             else:
...               return object.__getattribute__(self, key)
...
py> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
py> dir(t)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', 
'__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', 
'__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__', 'name']

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 22:18:03 2005
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (gsteff)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 19:18:03 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

import subprocess
subprocess.call("cmd")



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct  6 04:40:21 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 08:40:21 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk9i4u.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96E760DB0AAEEduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

>> from xml.dom import *
>>
>> def do_add(x, y):
>>      return '%s://%s' % (x, y)
>>
>> def do_something(node):
>>      if node.namespace == XML_NAMESPACE:
>>          return do_add('http://', node.namespace)
>>      elif node.namespace == ...
>>      ...
>>
> 
> IMO your variable are already mostly declared. The x and y in
> the do_add is kind of a declarartion for the parameters x and
> y. 

I think you missed his point, though I'm not surprised since unless you 
are familiar with the internals of the xml package it isn't obvious just 
how complex this situation is.

The value XML_NAMESPACE was imported from xml.dom, but the xml package is 
kind of weird. XML_NAMESPACE defined both in xml.dom and in the 
_xmlplus.dom package. The _xmlplus package is conditionally imported by the 
xml package, and completely replaces it, but only if _xmlplus is present 
and at least version 0.8.4 (older versions are ignored).

This is precisely the kind of flexibility which gives Python a lot of its 
power, but it means that you cannot tell without running the code which 
package actually provides xml.dom.

Of course, I would expect that if you enforced strict variable declarations 
you would also disallow 'from x import *', but you still cannot tell until 
runtime whether an particular module will supply a particular variable, not 
what type it is.


From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 00:35:50 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:35:50 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>
>>> No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they
>>> would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it
>>> recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML
>>> standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they
>>> talk about W3C *recommendations*.
>>
>> In that sense there are no standards in software.  The ISO C++
>> "standard" and the XML "recommendation" have the same amount of force
>> behind them.
>
> Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation.

And the practical difference between the two is....

That's right, nil.
 




From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Mon Oct 31 03:52:19 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 00:52:19 -0800
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
In-Reply-To: <1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130748738.972157.177070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I am further commenting on new replies.

Mike Meyer wrote:
> In general, application scripting facilities are one thing that Unix
> hasn't dealt with well.
> ...so each application is left up to it's own devices.
> Some of them now export APIs that can be hooked up to a variety of
> languages.

Now I understand why I have found so many difficulties!...
An example of APIs is those available for better controlling Google
search engine.

Unfortunately all that leaves the need of specific programming for
each case... I am obliged to learn C++ and Qt (in particular
inter-process communication).

About SPE, he is a little beside the point, but I insisted so much on
web examples...

Alex Martelli wrote:
> "General purpose" is, I believe, an overbid here --

Perhaps you are right, but for me a macro language
(like for ex. AutoIt) is very general, being only a mean of emulating
the user, running automatically external applications.

> applications are able to detect as being simulated, if they
> want to implement very strong security.
> If you want security, don't complain about the existence of security.

Never complained... I was only favorably impressed by the
sophistication reached for assuring stronger security.

At last a new entry (has) completely off the point (FWIW > FICCL!...).

Bye.



From loris at caren.demon.co.uk  Thu Oct 27 05:47:05 2005
From: loris at caren.demon.co.uk (Loris Caren)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:47:05 +0100
Subject: assignment to reference
References: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
	<1130363816.457178.320790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djq7mo$fo1$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>

Thank you all for your replies. They have helped me understand
that immutable means just that! Blame my c heritage where a
pointer allows you to scribble over anything.


From rossreyes at rcn.com  Mon Oct 17 21:02:10 2005
From: rossreyes at rcn.com (Ross Reyes)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:02:10 -0400
Subject: How do I pass args using Python Windows 
Message-ID: <001f01c5d37f$9233e8f0$a100a8c0@reyesr2>

Hi -  
I wonder if someone might be able to lend a quick answer to this.

I have a python script that I normally run from the command line on Solaris.    
i.e.    %pythonscript <filein> > <fileout>

I decided to try IDLE on Windows to do some debugging with the debugger (which I 
unfortunately dont' have on Solaris 5.7 )    

So my question is: How do I pass the command line args when using the Windows IDLE/Python 
environment?     

Thanks for any tips.



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From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 12 10:49:03 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:49:03 +0200
Subject: Very dumb question
In-Reply-To: <434d1558$0$21685$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.1959.1129124379.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434d1558$0$21685$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <434D225F.1070404@designaproduct.biz>


>
>I assume the code snippets are exact copy/paste so this is not a typo
>(like print data[51:] ...) - and I can't reproduce it here... even with
>a string of 20381 characters.
>  
>
Yes, they were cut out. type(data) returns '<type str>'.
The data was downloaded from a website, it starts with

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">

Even if it had special control characters in it, I do not understand the 
effect (printing only the first 50 chars).
But probably it is an issue with the terminal, since it is working fine 
on Windows.

  Les



From xah at xahlee.org  Sat Oct  1 10:23:57 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 07:23:57 -0700
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
In-Reply-To: <1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

the programers in the industry, including bigwigs such as Guido or that
Larry Wall fuckhead, really don't know shit about computer languages.
Sometimes i get pissed by Stephen Wolfram's megalomaniac cries, but in
many ways, i think his statements about the fucking moronicities of the
academicians and otherwise dignitaries are justified.

here i will try to illuminate some miscellaneous things regarding the
lambda in Python issue.

as i have hinted
( http://xahlee.org/perl-python/list_comprehension.html ), the
so-called List Comprehension is just a irregular syntax to facilitate
generating lists. The name is a terrible jargon, and the means is also
quite fucked up. The proper name should be something like
ListGenerator, and the proper means should be the plain function.

For instance, Python's range() is such a list generator, only that it
is limited in scope.

For a example of a powerful list generator, see Mathematica's Table
function:
http://documents.wolfram.com/mathematica/functions/Table

i'm running a project that will code Table in Perl and Python and Java.
You can read about the spec and source code here:
http://xahlee.org/tree/Table.html
(note: the Python version there isn't complete)

Note Table's power in generating not just flat lists, but trees. And if
one really want flat lists, there's the Flatten function that flats any
nested lists. (Python should have this too)

Python's reduce() is Mathematica's Fold. See
http://documents.wolfram.com/mathematica/functions/Fold
Besides Fold, there's FoldList, FixedPoint, FixedPointList, Nest,
NestList and others. In Python's terms, FoldList is like reduce()
except it returns a list of each steps. FixedPoint recursively applies
a function to itself until the result no longer changes (or when a
optional function returns true) Nest is similar except it limits the
iteration by a number. The NestList and FixedPointList are similar
except that they return a list, containing all the steps.

All these can be written as a loop, but they make the code condensed
and meaning clear. More so, they are important when programing in a
functional style. In functional programing, you don't litter lots of
variables or temporary functions or intermediate loops here or there on
every other line. The code is usually tight and inline. When sequencing
a series of functions, you can't stop in the middle and do some loop or
auxiliary calculation. All these are made inline into a function. (that
is: constructed as lambda) A block of code usually corresponds to a
unit of the algorithm used, as opposed to the particular unit of the
implementation of the algorithm. You don't read the minute details of
the code. You read the algorithmic unit's comments, or just the input
and output of a code block.

Also, these inline loop constructs are not just for computing numbers
as Guido likes to ignorantly think. They are specialized forms of
generic loop constructs. Their first argument is a function, and second
argument is a list. Their generality lies with the fact that their
first argument is a function. If a language does not provide a
convenient way to represent the concept of a function, than these
functional loop constructs will suffer in usability.

The Python morons, did not provide a convenient way to represent a
function. (they tried, with their limited implementation of lambda and
shun it like a plaque)

The way Guido puts it gives us a nice glimpse of their retarded
mentality: ?Also, once map(), filter() and reduce() are gone, there
aren't a whole lot of places where you really need to write very short
local functions;?

As we can see here, in Pythoner's mind, lambda is for ?very short
local functions?.

Python's limited lambda coupled with their lambda attitude problem
among imperative morons, therefore functional programing suffers in
Python, and consequently one becomes so stupid as to come up with a
bunch of feelings about lambda, map, reduce, filter.

For Python's map(), look at Mathematica's Map on how it might be
extended.
http://documents.wolfram.com/mathematica/functions/Map
Note the ability to map to not just flat lists but trees (nested
lists). Note the power of expressing the concept of levels of a tree.

For Python's filter(), check out the equivalent in Mathematica's
Select:
http://documents.wolfram.com/mathematica/functions/Select
Note how it provides a third option for picking just the first n items.
Also note, that Select is just a way to pick elements in a list.
Mathematica provides a set to do these: Part, Take, Drop, Select,
Cases. All uniformly uses the function syntax and all operate
semantically by returning a new list. In Python and other imperative
clown's language, usually they provide a limited varieties to do such a
task, and also inconsistent like piled on. (e.g. alist[5:9], filter(),
alist.remove(...), del alist[...]). Some modify the list in-place, some
returns a new list.

-----------------

one is quite sorry to read a big shot contemplating on petty issues
with a ambitious name Python THREE THOUSAND.

For the grand Python THREE THOUSAND, what about supporting non-trivial
things such as built-in transparent fractions? What about a smart
exact-arithmetics once for all? What about supporting pattern matching?
(not textual pattern matching (e.g. regex) as Imperative Morons wont to
understand, but patterns of list structures and data types.)

the features of Mathematica mentioned above existed over a decade ago.
But today, OpenSourcing bigwigs can contemplate and dither nothing but
which lipstick to use.

A good number of the industrial dignitaries are just fucking liers. And
today we have the fucking Java and fucking Perl and their bosses
trumpeting their fucking state-of-the-art-ness. Go fuck your wifes.

(disclaimer: all mentions of any real person are just opinion.)

-----
See also:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_3000.html

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From superprad at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 18:02:42 2005
From: superprad at gmail.com (PyPK)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 15:02:42 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2448.1130100075.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2448.1130100075.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130104962.547011.277540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hmm Thats one thing. Also I was thinking of something like benefites of
python over other languages. Probably that coould be one ?



From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 04:45:26 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 01:45:26 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <1130316263.790812.13440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<djks4r$pth$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130231775.770582.199690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130316263.790812.13440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130316326.790653.154480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

... solution



From jabel at plus.net  Wed Oct 26 05:15:15 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:15:15 +0100
Subject: Looping Problem (Generating files - only the last record generates
	a	file)
In-Reply-To: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435F4923.4050501@plus.net>

vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>I have a problem with the program that should generate x number of txt
>files (x is the number of records in the file datafile.txt).
>
>Once I execute the program (see below) only one file (instead of x
>files) is created. The file created is based on the last record in
>datafile.txt.
>
>The program is as follows:
>====================================
>#!  python
>
>HEADER = "This page displays longitude-latitude information"
>SUBHEADER = "City"
>
>for line in open("datafile.txt"):
>
>
>    town, latlong = line.split('\t')
>
>f = open(town + ".txt", "w+")
>
>f.write(HEADER + "\n")
>f.write(SUBHEADER + ": " + town + "\n")
>f.write("LAT/LONG" + ": " + latlong + "\n")
>f.close()
>
>  
>
These lines need to be within your loop.

J


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  7 10:28:42 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:28:42 -0000
Subject: Python, alligator kill each other
References: <1128635767.068104.232190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<S1q1f.15326$7U1.747549@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <11kd1gqmg446vf2@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

>> ... It is unknown how many pythons are competing with the thousands of
>> alligators in the Everglades, but at least 150 have been captured in
>> the past two years ...
>
> When I read the title 'Python vs. Alligator' on Slashdot, I
> thought it was about some comparison between Python and an
> unknown-to-me programming language Alligator.

Or a reference to an O'Reilly book with an Alligator on its
cover.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Let me do my TRIBUTE
                                  at               to FISHNET STOCKINGS...
                               visi.com            


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 21 11:30:34 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:30:34 +0200
Subject: Compile C program -> .pyc file
References: <1129905417.451369.114840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<djb0qa$hvl$2@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <djb1ir$l74$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Here's a start:
>
> http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2003q1/000198.html

if anyone could turn ideas that only exist in Christian's brain into working systems,
the world would look a lot different.

</F> 





From hyakugei at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 00:01:39 2005
From: hyakugei at gmail.com (Jos)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 21:01:39 -0700
Subject: Using Asyncore/chat for game server question.
In-Reply-To: <1128021543.080543.29570@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128021543.080543.29570@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128571299.353753.72950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks to Matt Hammond and Jonathan LaCour for getting back to me!

Jonathan sent me some code which took me several days to figure out,
but does _exactly_ what i wanted.

You can find the code he sent (dug out of the medusa distro) here:
http://www.thethirdplace.org/grabbag/pyasynccpl/select_trigger.py

And how i warped it to my needs here:
http://www.thethirdplace.org/grabbag/pyasynccpl/test.py
(please don't laugh at the rough code! :)

Jonathan's original reply, via email, is quoted here with his
permission.

Thanks!
jos

<quote>
I saw your post to comp.lang.python about asyncore and making a bit
more of an "active" process.  The problem with asyncore, as you stated,
is that it "reacts" to events on file descriptors (through
select/poll).  If you have something that occurs in a second thread
that could cause data to be available (ie, sending a "pulse" every
second), you can use some old code from the medusa web server to do
this, which I will attached to this email.

You will need to do something like this (I haven't tested this code):

    from select_trigger import trigger
    from threading import Thread
    import time

    class pulse_thread(Thread):
        def __init__(self, interval, thunk):
            Thread.__init__(self)
            self.trigger = trigger()
            self.thunk = thunk
            self.interval = interval

        def run(self):
            while True:
                self.trigger.pull_trigger(self.thunk)
                time.sleep(self.interval)

The pulse thread will pull the trigger how ever often you like, thus
waking up the asyncore loop for events being fired.  I hope this helps.

  -- Jonathan
</quote>



From steve.horsley at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:50:18 2005
From: steve.horsley at gmail.com (Steve Horsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:50:18 +0000
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2723.1130755161.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<slrndmbpc3.7jg.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>	<mailman.2722.1130752831.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndmbrvo.8f7.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<mailman.2723.1130755161.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dk602a$7bk$1@news.freedom2surf.net>

Ben O'Steen wrote:
> On Mon, October 31, 2005 10:23, Sybren Stuvel said:
>> Ben O'Steen enlightened us with:
>>> Using decimal as opposed to float sorts out this error as floats are
>>> not built to handle the size of number used here.
>> They can handle the size just fine. What they can't handle is 1/1000th
>> precision when using numbers in the order of 1e10.
>>
> 
> I used the word 'size' here incorrectly, I intended to mean 'length'
> rather than numerical value. Sorry for the confusion :)
> 

Sybren is right. The problem is not the length or the size, it's 
the fact that 0.039 cannot be represented exactly in binary, in 
just the same way that 1/3 cannot be represented exactly in 
decimal. They both give recurring numbers. If you truncate those 
recurring numbers to a finite number of digits, you lose 
precision. And this shows up when you convert the inaccurate 
number from binary into decimal representation where an exact 
representation IS possible.

Steve


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:13:32 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:13:32 -0700
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129572812.400706.62190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

No, you can just do it on the fly. You can even create properties
(attributes) on the fly.

class Dummy:
   property = True

d = Dummy()
d.property = False
d.new = True

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor http://pythonide.stani.be



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 19:13:20 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:13:20 +1000
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:00:04 +0300, Ville Voipio wrote:

> I would need to make some high-reliability software
> running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
> (or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.

[snip]

> The software should be running continously for 
> practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
> Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
> leak-free enough to achieve this?

If performance is really not such an issue, would it really matter if you
periodically restarted Python? Starting Python takes a tiny amount of time:

$ time python -c pass
real    0m0.164s
user    0m0.021s
sys     0m0.015s

If performance isn't an issue, your users may not even care about ten
times that delay even once an hour. In other words, built your software to
deal gracefully with restarts, and your users won't even notice or care if
it restarts.

I'm not saying that you will need to restart Python once an hour, or even
once a month. But if you did, would it matter? What's more important is
the state of the operating system. (I'm assuming that, with a year uptime
the requirements, you aren't even thinking of WinCE.)


-- 
Steven.



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Wed Oct 26 20:23:01 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:23:01 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <58j533-40o.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>                             . Microsoft said you can sell Windows and other 
> operating systems, but there will be a charge for every  machine you sell 
> without Windows -- if you want to be able to buy Windows wholesale. Someone 
> could comply with this by not selling any other operating systems at all and 
> never pay the fee. Therefore, this is a lesser restriction than saying you 
> can only sell Windows wholesale if you don't sell or offer any competing 
> systems.

No - you claim that allowing somebody (by contract?) to do Z at a
penalty is "lesser" than disallowing them from doing Z.  Sorry - both
are equal in market economics (where the financial imperatve rules).

Indeed, no contract can "disallow" somebody from doing Z - you are
always at liberty to break a contract! (See the RH Enterprise licence
as an example of a contract that you are at liberty to break by copying
RHE to more machines at the penalty of losing RH maintenance support- I
recently had this argument with Rick Moen). The penalty for doing so
is what is at issue. 

So your definitions are anyway without semantic content, and hence the
argument cannot proceed.

And even if the argument were too proceed, your use of "lesser" would
fail, because it appears to mean "is a (proper) subset of the ways
that" without having established what different (i.e. same) means, and
I'd submit that there is no diffence between the elements you exhibit
in the setting of market regulation law.

Peter


From uche.ogbuji at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 13:28:27 2005
From: uche.ogbuji at gmail.com (uche.ogbuji at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 10:28:27 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130193322.138313.320480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130193322.138313.320480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130347707.512800.265730@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

"""
The output I was contemplating was a DOM "DNA" - that is the DOM
without the instances of the elements or their data, a bare tree, a
prototype tree based on what is in the document (rather than what is
legal to include in the document).

Just enough data that for an arbitrary element I would know:

1) whether the element was in a document
2) where to find it (the chain of parents)
"""

This is easy to do in SAX.  For some hints, see page 2 of my article:

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/11/24/py-xml.html

--
 Uche Ogbuji                               Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net                    http://fourthought.com
http://copia.ogbuji.net                   http://4Suite.org
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/



From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 05:25:44 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 02:25:44 -0700
Subject: execution order in list/generator expression
Message-ID: <1130059544.215010.318610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am wondering how this is evaluated.

a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])
p=[4,5]

c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]

c is []

but if I expand a first, like a = list(a)

c is [4]

So it seems that the "if" part don't get expanded ?



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:13:08 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:13:08 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129122573.198977.245810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129122573.198977.245810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129122788.882046.4270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

one more update...

if I remove PyMem_Free and free(...) ...so no memory clean up...I can
still only call doStuff 4 times, the 5th attemp crashes Python.

Java and Swing wrote:
> update:
> if I use C's free(result), free(a) free(b) instead of PyMem_Free...I
> only get one successfuly use/call of doStuff.
>
> i.e.
> // this works
> doStuff(...)
>
> // python crashes here
> doStuff(...)
>
> Java and Swing wrote:
> > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> > 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> > 	PyObject *finalResult;
> >
> > 	// get arguments from Python
> > 	char *result = 0;
> > 	char *in= 0;
> >     	char *aString = 0;
> > 	char *bString = 0;
> > 	MY_NUM *a;
> > 	MY_NUM *b;
> > 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> > 	if (!ok) return 0;
> >
> > 	// do work to get a and b
> > 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> > 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> > 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
> >
> > 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> > 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
> >
> > 	// save result in Python string
> > 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
> >
> > 	// free memory
> > 	PyMem_Free(result);
> > 	PyMem_Free(a);
> > 	PyMem_Free(b);
> >
> > 	// return the result as a Python string
> > 	return finalResult;
> > }
> >
> > ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> > call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> > problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> > actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> > problem
> > so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
> > 
> > Any ideas?  Thanks!



From dakman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:23:12 2005
From: dakman at gmail.com (dakman at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 06:23:12 -0800
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
In-Reply-To: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130768592.010756.97890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

And yet the stupidity continues, right after I post this I finnally
find an answer in a google search, It appears the way I seen it is to
create a class for each button and have it call the method within that.
If anyone else has any other ideas please tell.



From nil at dev.nul  Fri Oct 14 00:32:43 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:32:43 +0200
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list at python.org...
> Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> writes:
> [...]
>> absolutely preventing me from making the switch. Number one is the
>> lack of a decent command line and command-line environment, and I'm
>> wondering (hoping) if perhaps someone has written a "Python shell"-- 
>> something that will look like a regular shell, let users type in
>> commands, maybe have some of the nice features of bash etc. like tab
>> completion, etc, and will then execute an underlying python script
>> when the command is entered. I'm not thinking of IDLE, but something
>> that is really aimed more at being a system terminal, not a Python-
>> specific terminal.
> [...]
>
> cmd.exe can be made bearable.  I just got a new machine, so I'll have
> to do this myself in the next few days...
>
> 0. Make a shortcut to cmd.exe, stick it somewhere get-at-able,
>   eg. quick launch toolbar

0.0. ... and add an item to your SendTo folder that allows
you to have Windows Explorer open a terminal window with its
current directory set to the currently displayed folder
(= "Open terminal here").

Regards,
Christian




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 11:12:00 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 17:12:00 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com><pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<NM92f.180798$p_1.25343@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <dibc05$a0s$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ron Adam wrote:

> In effect, 'cache' and 'fn' are replaced by the objects they reference
> before the cached_result function is returned.

not really; accesses to "free variables" always go via special cell objects
(rather than direct object references), and the compiler uses special byte
codes for all accesses to such objects.

this snippet illustrates the differences:

def func1():
    return a

def func2(a):
    return a

def wrapper(a):
    def func3():
        return a
    return func3

def decode(func):
    import dis
    print func.__name__ + ":"
    dis.dis(func)
    print "co_freevars =", func.func_code.co_freevars
    print "func_closure =", func.func_closure
    print

decode(func1)
decode(func2)
decode(wrapper(10))

if you run this on a recent version of Python, you get something like:

    func1:
      2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (a)
                  3 RETURN_VALUE
    co_freevars = ()
    func_closure = None

    func2:
      5           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
                  3 RETURN_VALUE
    co_freevars = ()
    func_closure = None

    func3:
      9           0 LOAD_DEREF               0 (a)
                  3 RETURN_VALUE
    co_freevars = ('a',)
    func_closure = (<cell at 0x0092C970: int object at 0x008A537C>,)

note the use of LOAD_DEREF for the variable access.

Other opcodes include STORE_DEREF (that updates a local variable
through a cell, used inside the "defining" scope), and MAKE_CLOSURE
(which sets up the function object for functions that actually uses
nested scopes; this is where the func_closure attribute is initialized).

(now, if I weren't limited to plain text, I could have drawn a nice little
diagram for you, but that's an entirely different thread...)

</F>





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 30 04:02:27 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:02:27 +1100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.29.22.49.02.45985@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h57cu1.1jywbjibu87obN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.30.09.02.27.88280@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:41:42 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>    ...
>> I should also point out that for really serious work, the idiom:
>> 
>> f = file("parrot")
>> handle(f)
>> f.close()
>> 
>> is insufficiently robust for production level code. That was a detail I
>> didn't think I needed to drop on the original newbie poster, but depending
>> on how paranoid you are, or how many exceptions you want to insulate the
>> user from, something like this might be needed:
>> 
>> try:
>>     f = file("parrot")
>>     try:
>>         handle(f)
>>     finally:
>>         try:
>>             f.close()
>>         except:
>>             print "The file could not be closed; see your sys admin."
>> except:
>>     print "The file could not be opened."
> 
> The inner try/finally is fine, but both the try/except are total, utter,
> unmitigated disasters: they will hide a lot of information about
> problems, let the program continue in a totally erroneous state, give
> mistaken messages if handle(f) causes any kind of error totally
> unrelated to opening the file (or if the user hits control-C during a
> lengthy run of handle(f)), emit messages that can erroneously end up in
> the redirected stdout of your program... VERY, VERY bad things.

Of course. That's why I said "something like this" and not "do this" :-) I
don't expect people to "handle" exceptions with a print statement in
anything more serious than a throw-away script.

For serious, production-level code, more often than not you will end up
spending more time and effort handling errors than you spend on handling
the task your application is actually meant to do. But I suspect I'm not
telling Alex anything he doesn't already know.


> Don't ever catch and ``handle'' exceptions in such ways.  In particular,
> each time you're thinking of writing a bare 'except:' clause, think
> again, and you'll most likely find a much better approach.

What would you -- or anyone else -- recommend as a better approach?

Is there a canonical list somewhere that states every possible exception
from a file open or close?



-- 
Steven.



From nntp.20.drfarina at recursor.net  Tue Oct 18 00:31:32 2005
From: nntp.20.drfarina at recursor.net (Dan Farina)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:31:32 -0700
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
In-Reply-To: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj1tr0$13f0$1@geode.berkeley.edu>

Chris Lasher wrote:
> Hello,
>   Is there a Python-sensitive, Linux compatible IDE out there with
> standard bells and whistles (source browser, symbolic debugger, etc.)
> but with the action-per-keystroke editing capabilities of Vim? I have
> failed to turn up such an IDE in my Googling and IDE project-page
> browsing. :-(
> 
> Thanks very much in advance,
> Chris
> 

If you don't have religious feelings on Java (or are able to ignore them 
for the time being) you could try Eclipse and pydev (see 
pydev.sourceforge.net)

I use it.  I think it works well.

df


From leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam  Wed Oct 12 00:27:35 2005
From: leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam (Andy Leszczynski)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:27:35 -0500
Subject: piping out binaries properly
In-Reply-To: <86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
	<86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <gZmdnZ8LVpHPDdHeRVn-pg@comcast.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> It's not normal to write binary content to stdout - you normally write

Well, I grew up in the Unix world and it is normal over there.

I am still curious which layer adds that 0xd. Is it python, cygwin, 
windows ...

Thx for reply, Andy


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 12:09:47 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:09:47 -0400
Subject: Absolultely confused...
In-Reply-To: <1128566897.3513.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7jcqbu2h.fsf@python.net>
	<1128566897.3513.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510060909r4c2028ebqe1b4be270ce1ab6d@mail.gmail.com>

[Jeremy Moles]
> ...
> I may be missing something critical here, but I don't exactly grok what
> you're saying; how is it even possible to have two instances of
> PyType_vector3d? It is (like all the examples show and all the extension
> modules I've done in the past) a static structure declared and assigned
> to all at once, only once.

The most common cause is inconsistent import statements, with one
place using package-relative import but another place explicitly
specifying the package.  Here's a simple pure Python example, with
this directory structure:

    playground/
        package_dir/
            __init__.py
            source.py
            module.py

__init__.py is empty; it just serves to make `package_dir` a package.

source.py defines a single type, named Type:

class Type(object):
    pass

module.py imports source.Type in two different ways, then prints various stuff:

from source import Type as one_way # package-relative import
from package_dir.source import Type as another_way

print one_way is another_way
print one_way.__name__, another_way.__name__
print repr(one_way), repr(another_way)

import sys
for k, v in sys.modules.items():
     if "source" in k:
         print k, v

Now _from_ playground, run module.py:

    python playground/module.py

This is the output, with annotations; I ran this on Windows, so expect
to see backslashes <wink>:

    False

That is, one_way is not the same object as another_way:  there are two
distinct instances of the Type object.

    Type Type

Although they're distinct, they have the same __name__, "Type".

    <class 'source.Type'> <class 'package_dir.source.Type'>

Their reprs differ, though, showing the path via which they were imported.

    source <module 'source' from 'C:\playground\package_dir\source.pyc'>
    package_dir.source <module 'package_dir.source'
                                    from 'C:\playground\package_dir\source.pyc'>

That's two lines of output from crawling over sys.modules:  there are
two distinct instances of the entire `source` module.  That's the real
cause of the multiple `Type` instances.

package-relative import is rarely a good idea.  Are you doing that anywhere?


From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Tue Oct 25 09:25:09 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:25:09 -0400
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djlbnq$6jm$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> It *is* a definition of an ordering.
> 
> For something to be an ordering it has to be anti symmetric and transitive.
> 
> The subset relationships on sets conform to these conditions so it is a (partial)
> ordering. Check your mathematic books, Why you would think this is abuse is beyond me

Which is exactly why a < b on sets returns True xor False, but cmp(a,b) 
throws an exception.

a <COMPARE> b is a local comparison, asking only for the relationship 
between two elements.  In some bases, like the complex numbers, some 
comparisons are ill-defined.; in others, like sets, they're well-defined 
  but don't give a total ordering.

cmp(a,b) asks for their relative rankings in some total ordering.  For a 
space that does not have a total ordering, cmp(a,b) is meaningless at 
best and dangerous at worst.  It /should/ throw an exception when the 
results of cmp aren't well-defined, consistent, antisymmetric, and 
transitive.


From ddelay at club-internet.fr  Sat Oct  8 14:30:30 2005
From: ddelay at club-internet.fr (ddelay at club-internet.fr)
Date: Sat,  8 Oct 2005 20:30:30 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... ) 
Message-ID: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20051008/1078ccb6/attachment.html>

From david at jotax.com  Sat Oct 29 03:01:59 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 00:01:59 -0700
Subject: Counting Threads
References: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130435796.917475.295830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<N9-dnbE-8qTHtfzeRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
	<1130456316.569328.323480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<m5a3m151nfhnk249jvi38ao3v34uusqqq5@4ax.com>
	<1130484088.324170.269810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<2bk4m15ric4tbjm1hlu1e2cub8d99fbrp1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130568598.958879.121490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

After much optimisation it turns out the following code does the job
for me.  In the end using count didn't give me the flexibility I
needed.  Instead I now name each thread and track them accordingly.
It's arguable if I need the thread locking now though, however I have
left it in to remind me of the syntax.

Thank you for posting back Dennis.  Much appreciated.

# --------------------------------------------------------
class ServerThreads:
    """
    Wrapper for thread handling.  These threads are not
    dynamic, that is to say once the  application is fully
    loaded the number of threads running is determined
    by the size of  the application - and is fixed.
    """
    # --------------------- Class Attributes
    # Dict holds object references to all threads
    # created in the server (running or not)
    thr_objects = {}
    # Dict holds status of all running threads
    # 0 = stopped, 1 = running
    thr_running = {}
    # Lock object
    lck = Lock()

    def launch(self, ThrName, SubToLaunch,
                       SubsArgs=(), SubsKwargs={}, AsDaemon=True):

        """ Kickoff a thread.
        thr_objects        : Dictionary using ThreadTitle
                                    as the key which holds
                                    references to the thread object
        thr_running        : Dictionary holding the status
                                    of each thread
        """
        s = ServerThreads
        # ---------------------
        s.lck.acquire()
        try:
            t = Thread(name = ThrName, target=SubToLaunch,
                                args = SubsArgs, kwargs = SubsKwargs)
            t.setDaemon(AsDaemon)            # Must be set before start
            s.thr_objects[ThrName] = t
            s.thr_running[ThrName] = 1
            if ag.gb_Appdebug: print 'Thread Started -------------  ',
ThrName
            t.start()
        finally:
            s.lck.release()
            # ---------------------

    def stoprequest(self,thr_name):
        """ Thread stop request - stop is pending.
        Join is not needed because the main code body
        drops out of the thread loops once the
        thr_running = true condition has been removed."""
        s = ServerThreads
        # ---------------------
        s.lck.acquire()
        s.thr_running[thr_name] = 0        # Flag to tell running
thread to please terminate
        if ag.gb_Appdebug: print 'Thread Stopping ----------- ' +
thr_name
        s.lck.release()
        # ---------------------

    def allOK(self):
        """ Returns a list of all threads that are down
        when they shouldn't be (if any) """
        s = ServerThreads
        ThreadsDown = []
        for thr_name in s.thr_objects:
            if not s.thr_objects[thr_name].isAlive() and
s.thr_running[thr_name]:
                # If a thread has an unscheduled stop indicate this by
returning the
                # threads name otherwise return None.
                ThreadsDown.append(thr_name)
        return ThreadsDown



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct  4 12:59:52 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:59:52 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<43423EAA.9060600@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86ll19i5fb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au> writes:
> Mike Meyer wrote:
>> When I notice that a list is broken (RFC 2822 says that
>> reply-to is for the *author* of the message; anyone else setting it is
>> doing so in violation of the RFC, and hence broken, no matter how
>> useful it may be),
> Since when did obeying the RFC become important in and of itself?

Since we started worrying about software being interoperable. If you
only use software from one monopolistic vendor, then that won't matter
to you, and you'll create pain and suffering for everyone who doesn't
drink the same koolaide. But such attitudes seem endemic on the
internet these days.

> That's what reply to means, surely? What is the point of a reply-to
> header that must be the sender, since you already have a header that
> gives you the sender.

You misunderstood. By "for the *author*", I meant that it's for the
*author* to set, not for someone else to set. I did not mean that it
had to be set to a specific value. Saying that anyone else setting it
is broken should have made that clear.

> I have been known to change the reply-to address from the address I am
> sending from (me at work for example) to the address I want the reply to
> go to (me at home). There are many times I'm emailing people I know can't
> cope with the complicated task of changing the To address of their
> reply, so I change the reply-to header so that their reply goes where
> I want it to go to (which might be another email address of mine, or a
> different person, or a mailing list).

And these are perfectly valid uses of reply-to. You're the author,
you're the one that reply-to is there for.

> If the RFC says that the reply-to header doesn't actually mean the
> address the reply should go to, but only the sender, then the RFC is
> broken. "Where the reply goes to" is a *human* decision, not a
> technical one. If I send you an email saying "Please reply to
> president at whitehouse.gov" then your mailer should honour that
> (although, since we are all adults, you should have the freedom to
> ignore my request and make a nuisance of yourself by emailing your
> reply to a different address).

That isn't what the RFC says, as you could have easily checked. It's
also not what I said.

> Likewise, if I set the reply address to the list, then your mailer
> should reply to the list. Perhaps you can argue that *my decision* to
> have replies go to the list is a bad one, but that's a social issue,
> not a technical one.

You're the author of the message. If you set the reply-to, that's
fine. If anyone other than you sets the reply-to, that's broken.

>> I tell my mailer to ignore reply-to on mail from
>> that list. Similarly, I no longer try and explain to people how long
>> lines violate RFCs and are a pain to read in well-behave mail readers,
> By "well-behaved", do you mean "can't cope with long lines"? How
> curious -- that's precisely the opposite definition of well-behaved I
> use.
>> or why mail readers that wrap text/plain content are broken.
> Curiouser and curiouser. Again that's the exact opposite of my
> definition of broken.

Like I said, I gave up on this fight. Ignorant people are going to
continue generating ugly, hard-to-read messages and complaining when
they get a message that demonstrates why their software is
broken. That's life on the internet these days. The internet used to
be a nice neighborhood. Now it's full of selfish jerks, and there are
to many of them to fight.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 14 11:39:08 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:39:08 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2068.1129299882.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86br1st8f7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Adriaan Renting" <renting at astron.nl> writes:
[On Qt]
> I don't know how it performs on OSX, I think it works fine, as Qt is
> available on OSX.

Qt on OS X is halfway there. It looks - and acts - like an aqua
application. However, to support the Command key, they hacked things
so that it is reported to the upper layers as the Control key. This
means that there's no way to get to use the control key in the UI for
qt apps on OS X.

This really rapes apps with configurable shortcuts. For instance, LyX
comes with a couple of emacsish bindings. You can turn them on, but
you have to use Command-key instead of Control-key, which pretty
thoroughly defeats the purpose.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From ms at cerenity.org  Sun Oct 23 12:00:06 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:00:06 +0100
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

eduardo.padoan at gmail.com wrote:

> I'm reading about "high order messages" in Ruby by Nat Pryce, and
> thinking if it could be  util and if so, if it could be done in Python.

Nice sunday afternoon exercise. Yes, you can do this in python. This is
based on a relatively naive translation of the ruby version:

class HigherOrderMessage(object):
    def __init__(self,handler):
      self.handler = handler

class Do(HigherOrderMessage):
    def __HOM__(self, methname, *args):
        "implement ruby's method_missing idea"
        try:
            for e in self.handler:
                meth = getattr(e, methname)
                meth(*args)
        except TypeError: # Handle non-iterator, could be nicer
             if self.handler is not None:
                 meth = getattr(self.handler, methname)
                 meth(*args)
    def __getattribute__(self, methname):
        try:
            return super(Do,self).__getattribute__(methname)
        except AttributeError:
            def myHom(*args):
                return self.__HOM__(methname, *args)
            return myHom

class Where(HigherOrderMessage):
    def __HOM__(self, methname, *args):
        "implement ruby's method_missing idea"
        try:
            r = List()
            for e in self.handler:
                meth = getattr(e, methname)
                if meth(*args):
                    r.append(e)
            return r
        except TypeError:
             r = List()
             if self.handler is not None:
                 meth = getattr(self.handler, methname)
                 if meth(*args):
                     r.append(self.handler)
             return r
    #
    def __getattribute__(self, methname):
        "Probably belongs in the baseclass"
        try:
            return super(Where,self).__getattribute__(methname)
        except AttributeError:
            def myHom(*args):
                return self.__HOM__(methname, *args)
            return myHom

class enumerable(object):
    def do(self):    return Do(self)
    def where(self): return Where(self)

class List(enumerable,list):
    "List using enumerable as a mixin"

class Claimant(enumerable):
    def __init__(self, name, age, gender):
        self.name = name
        self.age = age
        self.gender = gender
        self.benefits = 0

    def retired(self):
        return (self.gender == "male" and self.age >= 65) or \
               (self.gender == "female" and self.age >= 60)

    def receive_benefit(self,amount):
        self.benefits = self.benefits + amount

    def __str__(self):
        return "%s,%s age: %s benefits: %s" % (
                  self.name,
                  self.gender,
                  str(self.age),
                  str(self.benefits)
               )

#
# Create an enumerable list capable of responding to 
#

claimants = List([  # Just a list which is enumerable as well
    Claimant("tom", 32, "male"),
    Claimant("dick", 64, "male"),
    Claimant("harry", 128, "male"),
    Claimant("Ivanova", 32, "female"),
    Claimant("Kochansky", 64, "female"),
    Claimant("Sung", 128, "female"),
])

# First the normal python way I prefer this)
for claimant in claimants:
    if claimant.retired():
        claimant.receive_benefit(50)

# Display the results
for claimant in claimants: print str(claimant)
print

# The more direct translation of :
# claimants.select {|e| e.retired?}.each {|e| e.receive_benefit 50}

[ e.receive_benefit(50) for e in claimants if e.retired() ]

# Display the results
for claimant in claimants: print str(claimant)
print

# The single claimant version of the higher order message approach
# re-uses the last claimant from above. This one unconditionally
# grants benefits.
#
claimant.do().receive_benefit(50)
print claimant
print

# Iterating over a bunch of Claimants with the higher order message
# approach. This conditionally updates the claimaints

claimants.where().retired().do().receive_benefit(50)
# display results
for claimant in claimants: print str(claimant)

I'm not convinced I'd actually *use* this approach(*), but it does show that
you can certainly take this approach in python. It's certainly interesting
though.
   (*) Largely because there's a bunch of magic happening as far as the user
       (next programmer to edit the file) is concerned. After all you can't
       find the definition of retried in "where" or "claimant"; you can't
       find the definition of "receive_benefit" in "do", "retired", "where"
       or "claimants". 

I'm also pretty sure there's other things you'd want to do more than the
above generally speaking if you wanted to handle inheritance/etc nicely.
(That does make me wonder as well if you'd need to do more in ruby as
well)

However, this certainly isn't a case of "ruby can do this, and python
can't", because clearly python CAN do it :-)

Regards,


Michael



From webb.sprague at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 14:26:09 2005
From: webb.sprague at gmail.com (Fried Egg)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 11:26:09 -0700
Subject: Codetags (also Pylint/Pychecker + Variable declarations)
Message-ID: <1128795969.572378.327440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

* Codetag PEP:

    **  I would like to comment on the codetags PEP, which I give a 0+.
 I think the end "<>" is bad; I would be in favor of a block system or
something that looks more like regular Python (e.g. "#
:FIXME(line_count=10, date='2005-08-09', ...) ").

    **  As to the comments that say "Trac does the same functionality"
or "Eclipse/Eric/Emacs... has the same functionality" I think codetags
are orthogonal to that.  Also, some of us still use the old vi to edit
a system script in an emergency, and relying on bloated silliness like
Eclipse for documenting code seems, well, against all that is good and
true.

* Pylint:

    **  I also agree that a lint system is the place to enforce or
otherwise use things like codetags.  A useful implementation would go a
long way to creating a standard organically.

* Variable declarations--a synthesis of codetags and lint:

    ** Perhaps a codetag system is the place to put variable
declarations, type checking, and the like.   The lint system could grab
these and evaluate the code with them without messing with the compiler
or quick and dirty code styles.  (Inferring properties of code from
static listings is for geniuses--not for me--so forgive any unrealistic
examples below).  As an added benefit, there wouldn't be any
non-explicit checking to impede performance (but if you want, you can
always add assert's to your heart's content when it really matters,
which is rarely).

    ** Example

<pre>
str_var = '' # :DECLARE(type='string')
flt_var = 0 # :DECLARE(type='float')
line_index = 0 # :DECLARE(type='int', min=0, max=10)
for line_index in range(-10, 10) # "maximum exceeded" warning
    mispelled_flt_var = 1ine_index / 2.5 # "undeclared variable"
warning
    str_var = var + 1      # "type mismatch" warning
</pre>

Thanks for everyone's patience in reading this--I hope it helps further
the Pythonic cause of graceful programming.



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 03:44:45 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 00:44:45 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129275885.703931.326020@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Could anyone suggest an open source project that has particularly well
> written Python?  I am especially looking for code that people would
> describe as "very Python-ic".

I vote for the "doctest" code in the standard library.

         Michele Simionato



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Mon Oct 31 04:39:00 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:39:00 +0100
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndmbpc3.7jg.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Johnny Lee enlightened us with:
> Why are there so many nonsense tails? thanks for your help.

Because if the same reason you can't write 1/3 in decimal:

http://docs.python.org/tut/node16.html

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Oct  4 04:26:29 2005
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:26:29 +0300
Subject: Python 3! Finally!
References: <dhk1ds$654$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <v3f4k1lvs77rd0vakglj38bspifv4rjjer@4ax.com>

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:50:06 +0200, rumours say that Stefan Behnel
<stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de> might have written:

>Weird, though, the md5sum is the same as for the Python-2.4.2.tar.bz2 that I
>downloaded late (late!) yesterday evening and had forgotten in my download
>directory... just found it next to the new one... was still there, not
>overwritten...
>
>Well, maybe the changes needed to merit a V3 weren't that big after all...

No, it's just proof that the MD5 checksum isn't reliable and we should
move forward to SHA checksums.  Amazing coincidence.  Let's xpost to
some security newsgroup.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best.
"Dear Paul,
please stop spamming us."
The Corinthians


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct  7 21:17:47 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 03:17:47 +0200
Subject: Python, alligator kill each other
In-Reply-To: <1128635767.068104.232190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128635767.068104.232190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3qol1qFg33peU1@uni-berlin.de>

infidel wrote:
> By Denise Kalette
> Associated Press
> 
> MIAMI - The alligator has some foreign competition at the top of the
> Everglades food chain, and the results of the struggle are horror-movie
> messy.
> 
> A 13-foot Burmese python recently burst after it apparently tried to
> swallow a live 6-foot alligator whole, authorities said.
> 
> ...
> 
> ... It is unknown how many pythons are competing with the thousands of
> alligators in the Everglades, but at least 150 have been captured in
> the past two years ...
> 

Some Photos:

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/0,5538,PB64-SUQ9MTExOTEmbnI9Mg_3_3,00.html

Diez


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Fri Oct 14 09:26:31 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:26:31 -0500
Subject: get_payload problem with large mail attachments
In-Reply-To: <1129286221.172200.217160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129286221.172200.217160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434FB207.9000403@websafe.com>

While I don't intend to stir up a hornet's nest, I feel an
obligation to point out that an 8Mb email attachment should
set off warning bells.  I don't believe that SMTP email
is very efficient at moving such large files around and that
there are other methods for moving them more efficiently.
I've found that most email servers are configured to reject
email messages that are larger than 2-4Mb.  Maybe it is time
to back up and look at WHY you even have attachments that are
that large?  Just a suggestion.

-Larry

hungryblank at gmail.com wrote:
> I'm having troubles with a script that uses the get_payload function.
> My script just works perfectly if I use it with attachment up to 8 Mb.
> If the attachment are more than 8 Mb large, the script exits with a
> TypeError exception.
> IMHO when get_payload try to convert the attachment in a single string
> it occours in some size limit.
> How can I fix it?
> 
> I'm using python-2.3.3 on a SuSE 9.1 distro
> 
> The error raised is
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/sbin/mailbox2home.py", line 44, in ?
>     fp.write(part.get_payload(decode=1))
> TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only buffer, not None
> 
> and this is the slice of code where the error occours.
> 
> for message in messages:
>     for part in message.walk():
>         # multipart/* are just containers
>         if part.get_content_maintype() == 'multipart':
>             continue
>         # Applications should really sanitize the given filename so
> that an
>         # email message can't be used to overwrite important files
>         filename = part.get_filename()
>         if not filename:
>             ext = mimetypes.guess_extension(part.get_type())
>             if not ext:
>                 # Use a generic bag-of-bits extension
>                 ext = '.bin'
>             filename = 'part-%03d%s' % (counter, ext)
>         counter += 1
>         fp = open(os.path.join(dir, filename), 'wb')
>         fp.write(part.get_payload(decode=1))
>         fp.close()
> 


From kn0805 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 15:34:54 2005
From: kn0805 at hotmail.com (ktxn1020)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 12:34:54 -0700
Subject: unable to import os
In-Reply-To: <1129054769.405747.170570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <BAY101-F34FBE0905E65637D5FD2A6C7790@phx.gbl>
	<mailman.1851.1128967974.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129054769.405747.170570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129059294.346530.19780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I had the following code run with Python for Delphi. It works.

while IsCDriveNotEnoughSpace():
      dirlist = nt.listdir(CPath)
      listsize = len(dirlist)
      if listsize > 2:
         file = dirlist[0]
         nt.remove(CPath + dirlist[0])
         PyLog(file + " in C:\logs has been deleted.")
      if listsize == 2:
          break

When I added the line "mtime = nt.stat(CPath+file)[8]", it failed.
Do you have any idea or suggestion?




ktxn1020 wrote:
> It works fine independently, but still not work when run with Python
> for Delphi.



From http  Sun Oct  9 08:21:22 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 05:21:22 -0700
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1781.1128838838.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Lb-dnVf65sXCndTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1792.1128859643.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xu0fqop8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
> Tcl is an early example of a something that started as a "reusable
> command language" and turned into a "real programming language"
> along the way:

Yes, that's why tcl is such an awful language.  And it happens all the
time.  It's better to just start with a powerful language, e.g.,
Python, Guile, etc.  From the Guile blurb:
  http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/guile.html#whatisit


The true cost of doing it yourself
==================================

When you get to the point in your project where you need a scripting
language or a configuration file format and reader, the normal course
of things is to say ``I'll just do something clean and simple.'' This
is a good decision. Adding a full programming language is just a
distraction from your project. But simple languages don't seem capable
of staying simple. For example, early releases of PHP, a language for
generating web pages dynamically, enjoyed its minute memory footprint
and simplicity. However over time PHP has grown, with the latest
releases giving PHP an object system and other features that have
grown it to a much larger size. Compare Tcl from its 1988 origins with
the modern, sizable language. Broadly, the same progression has
occurred with Perl.
...
Guile has the fundamentals you need; you simply specialize it for your
application. It has arrays and lists; modules; objects; and
first-class functions. It has garbage collection --- which makes using
Guile especially simple. Using Guile, your application has a
full-featured scripting language right from the beginning, so you can
focus your manpower on the novel and attention-getting parts of your
application.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Oct  5 10:58:15 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:58:15 -0500
Subject: How to create temp file in memory???
In-Reply-To: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
References: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <20051005145814.GD13147@unpythonic.net>

Here's how:

1. open your web browser
2. visit the url http://docs.python.org
3. click the link "Library Reference" (keep this under your pillow)
4. scan down the list of modules until you see these two items:
	4.6 StringIO -- Read and write strings as files
	4.7 cStringIO -- Faster version of StringIO 
5. ?????
6. profit

Jeff
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From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct 19 10:50:34 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:50:34 -0500
Subject: Dealing with Excel
In-Reply-To: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <H_6dncNTTa7UwMveRVn-hA@comcast.com>

Using ODBC interface to Oracle Excel can do this without
any external (Python) program.  Just:

1) Create a ODBC DSN that interfaces with Oracle
2) In Excel do Data-Get External Data-New Database Query
3) Tell Excel what tables/columns/order/filtering you want

You can even save the Database Query for later re-use.
If you want, you can automate this process using Python
COM+ interface to Excel.

Larry Bates

Robert Hicks wrote:
> I need to pull data out of Oracle and stuff it into an Excel
> spreadsheet. What modules have you used to interface with Excel and
> would you recommend it?
> 
> Robert
> 


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct 29 10:51:04 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 07:51:04 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130491182.405885.49010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130531839.145106.287950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130597464.844648.231940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

<uche.ogbuji at gmail.com> wrote:

> """
> I was looking for something similar (XML to DTD inference) but I didn't
> find anything related in python. Trang
> (http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/trang-manual.html#introduction),
> on the other hand seems impressive after a few non-trivial tests. It
> would be neat to have it ported in python, at least the inference part.
>
> """
>
> If you're OK with RELAX NG rather than DTD as the schema output
> (probably a good idea if you're using namespaces), consider
> Examplotron, which I've used on many such production tasks.
>
> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-xmptron/
>
> It's XSLT rather than Python, but the good news is that XSLT is easy to
> invoke from Python using tools such as 4Suite.
>
> http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/python-xslt

Neat, though non-trivial XSLT makes my head spin. Just for kicks, I
rewrote in python Michael Kay's DTDGenerator
(http://saxon.sourceforge.net/dtdgen.html), though as the original it
has several limitations on the accuracy of the inferred DTD.

George



From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Mon Oct  3 08:46:08 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:46:08 -0300
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
In-Reply-To: <11k13a57dtm2u0d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <AB422DD2-340B-11DA-A6BF-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

Hi. Thank you for the links. I am looking for something that would  
function in a similar way to Yahoo's filter for it's message boards.  
Perhaps I should have used the term profanity instead of unacceptable  
language. I am not concerned about correcting sentence structure or  
poor grammar.

I realize screening profanity can be accomplished by simply looping  
over regular expressions from a database or dictionary to search the  
text to check against possibilities .  I thought it possible that there  
may be something like this already in existence, perhaps already in a  
module since it is likely (despite how absurd) - that someone has  
developed a dictionary of profane word expressions I suspect. What's is  
perhaps more crazy, is that one has to consider including something  
like this in an application - but you have to conclude the Internet is  
what it is.

Regards
David

 From Yahoo:
"The Profanity Filter allows you to control how you want to view  
messages with profanity in two ways. You can choose to view the  
messages with the profanity masked with italcized symbols (@$&% ), or  
you can have the messages containing profanity hidden entirely.

You can also choose between a weak setting for exact word matches or a  
strong setting that will filter spelling variations."

Well I know this thread is a

On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 10:45 PM, Nigel Rowe wrote:

> David Pratt wrote:
>
>> Hi.  Is anyone aware of any python based unacceptable language filter
>> code to scan and detect bad language in text from uploads etc.
>>
>> Many thanks.
>> David
>
> You might be able to adapt languagetool.
> http://www.danielnaber.de/languagetool/features.html
>
> Later versions have been ported to Java, but the old python version of
> languagetool is at http://tkltrans.sourceforge.net/#r03
>
> His thesis paper is at
> http://www.danielnaber.de/languagetool/download/ 
> style_and_grammar_checker.pdf
>
> Mind you, given the poor language skills of many native english  
> speakers
> (not to mention those for whom english is a second language) relying on
> automated filters to enforce 'good' language seems a trifle extreme.   
> This
> post for example would probably not pass.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 11 09:47:47 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:47:47 +1000
Subject: Learning Python
References: <mailman.1849.1128964843.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.11.09.26.57.24978@all.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.13.47.46.594901@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:26:58 +0900, Chris Dewin wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:20:35 +0000, dannypatterso wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>> I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know
>>> procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and
>>> polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as
>>> I've written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a
>>> primer in OO programming).
> 
> There was an excellent such primer on devshed, by Icarus, but they appear
> to have taken it down.
> 
> I saved a copy of it to my HD. Would there be anything morally, or legally
> wrong with me uploading it to my site?

What licence was the primer published under? Unfortunately, under
copyright law, it isn't enough for the copyright owner to merely not
prohibit redistribution, but they must explicitly allow it, e.g. under a
Creative Commons licence.

That is because when you redistribute it, you are effectively making a
copy.

I should also point out that copyright infringement not only opens you to
law suits, but in many countries is now a felony crime. For instance, here
in Australia thanks to the <sarcasm> wonderful </sarcasm> "Free" Trade
Agreement with the USA, the BSAA (our local branch of the American
Business Software Alliance) is trumpeting the fact that they can now have
company CEOs jailed for not buying enough software licences -- or, as the
case may be, buying them but not being able to find them when the BSAA
comes a knocking.

Having said all that, if you are aware of the risks, you may make a value
judgement that the copyright owner won't mind if you republish the work,
e.g. because they were giving it away for free to start with. If so, I see
nothing morally wrong with putting it up on your website. (The law may
disagree.)

-- 
Steven.



From email at christoph-haas.de  Tue Oct 25 18:05:26 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:05:26 +0200
Subject: simple send only command line jabber client in python?
In-Reply-To: <1130275939.113598.194000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130275939.113598.194000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510260005.27248.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Tuesday 25 October 2005 23:32, fuzzylollipop wrote:
> I want to be able to send jabber messages from an subversion
> post-commit hook script. All I need is a simple library to connect to a
> server and send a message.
>
> I looked at all the half-finished and overly complex projects and can't
> find anything that fits the bill. What I did find I can't get to work
> correctly, probably because everything is 2 years old and out of date.

Try http://xmpppy.sourceforge.net/

 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 13:50:38 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:50:38 -0700
Subject: py.log using decorators for DRY
References: <1130606608.107621.138650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h56wng.106v8tn1lk8f2rN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

yoda <nochiel at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm using py.log for logging and I find that I end up having the following
> pattern emerge within my code (influenced by
> http://agiletesting.blogspot.com/2005/06/keyword-based-logging-with-py-lib
> rary.html):
> 
> def foo(**kwargs):
>     log.foo(kwargs)
>     #body form
> 
> This led me to believe that I could simplify that pattern with the
> following idiom :
> 
> 
> def logit (fn):
>     '''
>     decorator to enable logging of all tagged methods
>     '''
>         def decorator (**kwargs):
>         # call a method named fn.func_name on log with kwargs
>         #should be something like: log.func_name (kwargs)
> 
>     return decorator

Assuming the attributes of object 'log' don't change at runtime (i.e.,
you're OK with early binding), I'd code:

def logit(fn):
    method = getattr(log, fn.func_name)
    def callit(**kwargs): return method(kwargs)
    return callit

If you need to do late binding instead, you can move the getattr to
inside the body of callit.


Alex
 


From benji at benjiyork.com  Thu Oct  6 11:35:31 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:35:31 -0400
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <43454443.7090908@benjiyork.com>

CppNewB wrote:
> Most of them have support for Dialogs, but what about more complex
> UI's?  I may need a resizable frame within a resizable frame? I
> haven''t found a GUI builder with a great feel yet.

I *highly* recommend wxDesigner.  I've used it extensively.  It's cheap 
and has a demo version you can download (the demo can't save your 
designs, but can generate code so you can try it out).
--
Benji York


From thatchmatic at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 21:46:49 2005
From: thatchmatic at yahoo.com (thatchmatic)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:46:49 -0000
Subject: New User
Message-ID: <djeq29+5mv7@eGroups.com>

I just downloaded and I think installed python.  I am not sure if I 
did cause it does'nt respond to the commands that the read me file 
told me to use.  Also can someone suggest a trial program I can maybe 
write for fun?

Thanks.





From grunar at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 22:18:50 2005
From: grunar at gmail.com (grunar at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 19:18:50 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
Message-ID: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

After some thought on what I need in a Python ORM (multiple primary
keys, complex joins, case statements etc.), and after having built
these libraries for other un-named languages, I decided to start at the
bottom. What seems to plague many ORM systems is the syntactic
confusion and string-manipulation required to build the SQL Statements.
If you want to do a Left Outer Join, support nested functions, and a
nested conditional clause, you'd be building more of a string library
than an ORM. Let's not even mention syntactical differences between
databases, data types, and such.

My solution is sqlstring. A single-purpose library: to create SQL
statement objects. These objects (such as sqlstring.Select), represent
complex SQL Statements, but as Python objects. The benefit is that you
can, at run-time, "build" the statement pythonically, without
getting bogged down in String Manipulation. The theory is that once in
use, things that were complex (string magic) become simpler, and allow
the program to worry about higher-level issues.

An Example:

>>> import sqlstring
>>> model = sqlstring.TableFactory()
>>> print model.person
SELECT
person.*
FROM
[person] person
>>> person_smith = model.person \
** (model.person.first_name == "Smith")
>>> print person_smith
SELECT
person.*
FROM
[person] person
WHERE person.first_name = 'Smith'
>>> print person_smith("party_id", "first_name") \
< < model.address ** (\
model.address.party_id == model.person.party_id)
SELECT
party_id party_id,
first_name first_name,
address.*
FROM
[person] person
LEFT OUTER JOIN [address] address ON
address.party_id = person.party_id
WHERE person.first_name = 'Smith'

Things can get much more interesting than this, including nested
sub-selects (anywhere), conditional groups (and/or groups nested using
& and |) and even CASE statements.

Some of this stuff has been around for a while (using "magic" objects
to build where clauses, etc.).  But I'm trying to take it all the
way--to a legit Select statement.

While still in the early stages, it does work with a great many sql
statements, as seen in the test suite.  Currently supported are CASE
statements, Nested conditional clauses, nested queries and most join
types. At this point, I'm interested in getting feedback from the
community on several fronts:

   1. The Operator Overload model. I've chosen to overload Python's
operators to give a short-hand syntax to most of the things you'd
want to do with a select statement. The rest are accessable via
methods. Currently ** is the "where" operator, // is the "in"
operator, % the "like" operator and ^ aliases columns. Other
overloads are as you'd expect- + / - * == all result in Expression
Objects that dish out the right SQL string. The question is, is the
"leap" in syntax to confusing? Is there a cleaner way to do this?
(Functions for example)
   2. How to best add further sql function support? Adding magic
callable objects to columns came to mind, but this has it's own set
of issues. I'm leaning towards a magic object in the sqlstring
module. For example:

      sqlstring.F.substring(0, 4, person.first_name)

      would result in: substring(0, 4, person.first_name). the F object
could be put in the local scope for short-hand.
   3. I'm undecided on how best to handle database specific
overwrites. I want this to be as easy as possible. I'm thinking about
subclassing Expressions with a naming scheme on the Sub-Class (such as
CaseExpression_oracle). Then the __init__ factory could dish out the
right version of the object based on the the requestor. This brings up
lots of questions, such as how to support multiple types of databases
at the same time.

      Eventually the library should include all of the basic SQL
Statements, including UPDATE, INSERT and CREATE statements. This is
mostly for completeness, though. SELECT statements tend to be the most
complex.

      The library can be downloaded at http://betur.net/download.php

      Any other thoughts or comments are very much appreciated



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 23 12:25:04 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:25:04 -0400
Subject: bsddb version?
In-Reply-To: <1130083725.481400.323330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130083725.481400.323330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <v62dnSjz3sPVJMbeRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

leasun wrote:
> Anybody knows which version bsddb is released with py2.3 and py2.4?

Is this what you wanted?

Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
>>> import bsddb
>>> bsddb.__version__
'4.3.0'

I'll leave it up to you to do the work to find out what it is on
Python2.3...  I hope you can manage the effort. ;-)

-Peter


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 24 09:19:27 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:19:27 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djglnk$jq8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5y47f.174197$RW.59989@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8qnpl11s9ie8s2pstqja5k5aeikn6tgtu7@4ax.com>

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:35:13 GMT, axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>I see that you cannot make a reasoned argument against the fact that
>property in the form of houses is taxed in America.

And what has his inability to do that to your satisfaction got to do
with the price of eggs?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From beau at superiorss.com  Tue Oct 25 13:43:52 2005
From: beau at superiorss.com (techdude27)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:43:52 -0000
Subject: JOB: F/T Python Developer, San Francisco, CA
Message-ID: <djlqso+q7n0@eGroups.com>

JOB: F/T Python Developer, San Francisco, CA

This is a full-time position. Contractors need not apply.  Local
candidates only.

Responsibilities:
- Implement client requirements in Python using our proprietary
workflow and app server technology
- Interact with clients to shepherd their projects to a successful
conclusion
- Enhance solutions with new or extended components in Python or Pyrex
and C


Experience Desired:
- 3 years experience working in a professional software development
organization
- At least 3 years experience in web development


Skills Desired:
- Hard-working, motivated and self-reliant
- Attention to detail and pride in one's work
- Excellent analytical (including data analysis) and design skills
- Open-minded and quick to learn new skills
- In-depth knowledge of web development
- Strong client-side scripting skills (JavaScript, DHTML and CSS)
- Python programming skills, or at least some similar scripting
language like Perl, Ruby or Tcl/Tk
- The ability to write Python extension modules in C, SWIG or Pyrex
would be a plus
- Experience working in a professional software development
organization with CVS

Please send resume and salary requirement to beau at superiorss.com

Thank you,
Beau Gould

www.superiorss.com





From bulliver at badcomputer.org  Mon Oct 24 22:04:47 2005
From: bulliver at badcomputer.org (darren kirby)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:04:47 -0700
Subject: [OT] Re: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>
	<200510241425.45538.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510241904.52917.bulliver@badcomputer.org>

quoth the Fredrik Lundh:
> (using either on the output from glob.glob is just plain silly, of course)

Silly? Sure. os.listdir() is more on point. Never said I was the smartest. 
However, I will defend my post by pointing out that at the time it was the 
only one that actually included code that did what the OP wanted.

Recall I wrote:
"If all you want is filenames this will work:"
not:
"This is how you should do it"

And I invite you to prove me wrong ... it does work.

As a novice, I do appreciate getting set strait when I code something dumb, 
but going off about the efficiency of "%s % foo" over "str(foo)" hardly helps 
the OP, and is not very pertinant to my glob faux pas either. An explanation 
of why glob is silly would perhaps teach me better than just stating it as 
fact. 

It is things like this that make me wary of posting to this list, either to 
help another, or with my own q's. All I  usually want is help with a specific 
problem, not a critique involving  how brain-dead my code is. I'm a beginner, 
of course my code is going to be brain-dead ;)

I thought the idea was "make it work first, then optimize"? In any event, I 
will refrain from trying to help people here until I get over this silly 
stage I seem to be stuck in... it just doesn't seem worth it.

I am not trying to sound like a whiner here, I just wish you experts would go 
easy on us novices...

-d
-- 
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
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From no.offline.contact.please at nospam.com  Sat Oct 15 09:50:44 2005
From: no.offline.contact.please at nospam.com (Rhino)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:50:44 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <mO74f.8726$vD4.549587@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote in message
news:11l16dst501kjdd at corp.supernews.com...
>
> >>
> >>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
> >>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
> >
> > They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are evil, not
> > because they have a large market share.
>
> no, they got their by clever marketing and generally having a product that
> was easier to use for the average user than anything the competition made
> and a lot more powerful than other products created for their main target
> market.
>
> Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
> If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be no
> other software manufacturers at all.
> Prices would be far far higher than they are today, like they were back in
> the days before Microsoft started competing with the likes of Ashton Tate
> and WordPerfect corporation by offering similar products at 20% the price
> (which is the real reason they got to be top dog, they delivered a working
> product for a fraction of the price their competition did, and the
> competition couldn't drop their prices that much and remain profitable).
>
> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful
> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb
> mainframe terminals.

> IBM's prediction that there would be 5 computers (not counting game
> computers like the Comodores and Spectrums) by 2000 would likely have come
> true.
>

I'd be VERY surprised if IBM predicted that there would be only 5 COMPUTERS
in *2000* - perhaps you mean 5 *manufacturers* of computers? - unless the
prediction was made a VERY long time ago. I think you are giving a
badly-mangled version of something I saw when I worked at IBM.

 About 10 years ago, when I was working at IBM, there was an employee
newsletter circulated commemorating the death of Thomas J. Watson Jr., a
former CEO of IBM. They cited an old interview with him in which he had
predicted that the world wide market for computers would be 3 in the next
year; in other words, he expected IBM to sell three of their computers in
that year. However, he was not making this prediction in or for the year
2000; the interview had taken place just after World War II - 1946 perhaps -
and was for the next year. I wasn't born then but, from what I recall about
computer history, selling 3 Eniacs (or whatever model they were making that
year) isn't too far out of line with what actually happened.

Of course, we are talking about a time when computers were absolutely
immense, ran on vacuum tubes (the transistor hadn't been invented yet) and
filled very large rooms - and yet probably had less computing power than the
average microwave oven you can buy today. Only very large companies or
national governments would want or need a computer in those days. Everyone
else was still using typewriters - which was IBM's bread and butter in those
days - for their business needs.

Rhino




From nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 20:22:36 2005
From: nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com (ncf)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 17:22:36 -0700
Subject: wxPython equiv. to tag_configure
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1476.1128465193.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128456689.100365.196050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1476.1128465193.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128471756.796040.126670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Errm, can you slap me please? :X

Either way, thank you soo much :)
-Wes



From jzgoda at o2.usun.pl  Sun Oct 30 15:49:30 2005
From: jzgoda at o2.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:49:30 +0100
Subject: Last.fm Python group
Message-ID: <dk3bl1$hpq$2@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

I was missing miscellaneous Python group on last.fm, so here it is:
http://www.last.fm/group/PythonCode. Enjoy.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 13 01:17:45 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:17:45 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<od9rk19sjg2ntd34tb7hkpvla2mq7ob71h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86vf02uhae.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:46:12 GMT, Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote
> or quoted :
>
>>Viruses can mail out change of address messages to everyone in the
>>compromised machine's address book today.
>>
>>Of course, viruses don't bother doing that - since it's stupid and
>>pointless.

Except with Roedy's proposal, all the targets correspondents address
books would get updated automatically. It's got much the same effect
as filling a change of address at the locate post office for
someone. It's a nasty practical joke. But much nicer than some of the
things that viruses do today.

> The key that makes that possible is Microsoft's features for running
> self-executing code in emails.  That is the problem. It has nothing to
> do with formatting or pictures.

No, that's what makes email a vector for infection. What makes using
the address book - for whatever purpose - possible for viruses is
having an API that allows arbitrary code to access it. But you have to
have that API - your customers are going to insist that they be able
to use their address book from third party applications.

These days, viruses don't spread through a single vector; they use
mutliple vectors, and will try them all once they've infected a
machine. So you may cruse a web site that infects you, and the virus
will then mail copies of itself to everyone in your address book, as
well as infecting any web servers that may be running on the machine,
and probing random IP addresses close to yours, and so on.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From appumail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 04:48:01 2005
From: appumail at gmail.com (Murugesh)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:18:01 +0530
Subject: Help-log in to a web page
Message-ID: <aM51f.8$nq6.116@news.oracle.com>

Hi all,
I'm a newbie to python.I need to login to a webpage after supplying 
usename and password.

import urllib   
sock = urllib.urlopen("http://xop-pc.main.com")
htmlSource = sock.read()                           
sock.close()                                       
print htmlSource        

In the above code how can i supply username and password to that URL.
Thanks for you time.

Thanks
Amen.



From allisfree at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 05:14:05 2005
From: allisfree at gmail.com (JackPhil)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 02:14:05 -0700
Subject: windows service problem
Message-ID: <1128330845.762679.66680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

i code a very simple web server with python, and i want it should run
as service on WindowsXP.

the problem is i can run the service in debug mode, and it seems works
fine(i can connect the server with browser), but when i start the
service in the services control panel, i can't connect the server, the
server seems not start, and i can't stop the service.

any advice?



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct  5 12:47:06 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:47:06 +0200
Subject: updating local()
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndk80rn.ddo.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Flavio enlightened us with:
> Can anyone tell me why, if the following code works, I should not do
> this?
>
> def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):
>
> 	print 'locals:',locals()
> 	locals().update(args)
> 	print locals()

Because it's very, very, very insecure. What would happen if someone
found a way to call that function? It could replace any name in the
locals dictionary, including functions from __builtins__. In other
words: probably the whole program could be taken over by other code by
just one call to that function.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From nochiel at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 14:33:53 2005
From: nochiel at gmail.com (yoda)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 11:33:53 -0700
Subject: setuptools, ez_setup over http proxy
In-Reply-To: <1129276158.313427.325430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129252549.899651.327160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129262530.512786.169430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129276158.313427.325430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129314833.751372.243480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

It appears that it was my proxy config that was flakey.  setup tools
works like a charm. :$



From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Sun Oct 30 21:08:27 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:08:27 +1100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.29.22.49.02.45985@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h57cu1.1jywbjibu87obN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.09.02.27.88280@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h58jkz.1byi9q5qwo1owN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.22.20.02.188736@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h598gf.y63d2z1ig1x93N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43657C9B.7060303@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>>No.  But if you get a totally unexpected exception, 
>>
>>I'm more concerned about getting an expected exception -- or more
>>accurately, *missing* an expected exception. Matching on Exception is too
>>high. EOFError will probably need to be handled separately, since it often
>>isn't an error at all, just a change of state. IOError is the bad one.
>>What else can go wrong?
> 
> 
> Lots of things, but not ones you should WISH your application to
> survive.

[snip]

> Sure, that's why you catch IOError, which covers these _expected_ cases
> (or, if you want to be a bit wider, maybe OSError) AND check its errno
> attribute to ensure you haven't mistakenly caught something you did NOT
> in fact expect (and thus can't really handle), to use a bare raise
> statement to re-raise the "accidentally caught" exception if needed.

Ah, that's precisely the answer I was looking for: 
IOError and OSError, and then check the errno. 
Excellent: thanks for that.

> But if something goes wrong that you had NOT anticipated, just log as
> much info as you can for the postmortem, give nice diagnostics to the
> user if you wish, and do NOT keep processing -- and for these
> diagnostic-only purposes, use sys.excepthook, not a slew of try/except
> all over your application making it crufty and unmaintainable.

Agreed -- I never intended people to draw the 
conclusion that every line, or even every logical block 
of lines, should be wrapped in try/except.


-- 
Steven.



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 14:55:17 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:55:17 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>
	<435e786f$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <djlv2l$gr7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Martin P. Hellwig" <mhellwig at xs4all.nl> wrote in message 
news:435e786f$0$11061$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...

> Not Bill Gates wrote:

>> steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au wrote...
>>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:
>>>
>>>> Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.
>>> You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
>>> the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?

>> You need to first prove innovation in desktop software has been crippled, 
>> don't you?

> How about their "java" implementation between 1998 and 2004?
> Sure killed the _easier_ write once run everywhere mantra, of course they 
> where not alone in the killing, SUN helped a great deal.

    It's easy to point to things you think are mistakes and claim that if 
you had been in charge of the world, those mistakes would not have been 
made. If you are trying to balance completely different possible paths the 
universe might have taken, you need to make sure to include everything on 
both sides, and that's really really hard to do.

    Perhaps the desktop software is good enough that how much better it 
would have been wouldn't make much difference. And perhaps the lack of 
competition steered the innovators into other fields where their innovations 
made huge differences. Perhaps not -- perhaps the desktop software we would 
have had in a more competitive market would have made other people's lives 
majorly better. Who knows?

    I don't think it's possible or sensible to try to have a reckoning of 
this type. There are so many variables and unpredictable possibilities.

    DS




From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 05:30:36 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:30:36 GMT
Subject: Spambayes modifications with web services
In-Reply-To: <1130486425.402338.123720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130486425.402338.123720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0dm8f.2917$Hj2.1592@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

benmorganpowell:

> So, as a web programmer and someone who specialises in getting good
> results on Google, I realised that I could simply post every spammer
> website on a Google optimized page, which if searched for on Google
> would return something like:
> 
> "WARNING: DO NOT BUY FROM THIS WEBSITE. THE SPAMMER IS A RUSSIAN MAFIA
> CROOK WHO WILL STEAL YOUR MONEY."

    Spam may also contain the addresses of non-spamming businesses, 
sometimes in an effort to increase the apparent legitimacy of the spam. 
Attacking all of the web sites in spam will cost these businesses while 
having little effect on spammers who use temporary domains which may be 
cheaply abandoned. It also gives another attack vector for those 
criminals that attempt to extort money from web sites by threatening to 
damage them.

    If you want to take action against spammers, first think through all 
the potential consequences of your actions.

    Neil


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Thu Oct 13 09:14:19 2005
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:14:19 +0100
Subject: wxPython question
In-Reply-To: <1129207833.953525.266880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129207833.953525.266880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434e5dac$0$25428$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

vpr wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Does anyone have some example code to create a wx dialog that apears
> off screen on the bottom right hand corner and slides up into the
> screen ?
> 

Andrea Gavana does..

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/infinity77/eng/freeware.html#toasterbox

Will McGugan
-- 
http://www.willmcgugan.com
"".join({'*':'@','^':'.'}.get(c,0) or chr(97+(ord(c)-84)%26) for c in 
"jvyy*jvyyzpthtna^pbz")


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Oct 11 04:47:31 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:47:31 +0200
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <1129015844.347274.145840@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didmcq$v69$1@online.de>
	<1129015844.347274.145840@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r1ch4FgbogbU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Thanks for this pointer. I have read it, but I don't think it applies
> to my situation, as it talks about 'reading' from the child's stdout
> while the child is 'writing' to stderr.

But that is exactly the point: the psql blocks because you don't read 
away the buffered data. Start a thread, read that stdout/stderr and see 
if things go smoothly.

Diez


From mhardas at cs.kent.edu  Thu Oct 13 11:56:23 2005
From: mhardas at cs.kent.edu (mhardas at cs.kent.edu)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:56:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ImportError: No module named dbm 
Message-ID: <2229.131.123.36.10.1129218983.squirrel@webmail.cs.kent.edu>

Hi all,
Iam trying to get 'cvs2svn' to get to work on a Trustix Linux machine.
However is suspect that no dbm is installed because running cvs2svn
gives the following error:

ERROR: your installation of Python does not contain a suitable
DBM module -- cvs2svn cannot continue.
See http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-anydbm.html to solve.

So I ran test for the dbm installation and got the following,

root at drbn /usr/local/lib/python2.3/test# python test_dbm.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_dbm.py", line 7, in ?
    import dbm
ImportError: No module named dbm

Can you tell me how do I go about getting the dbm module and install
it.??

Thanks again.

Manas.






From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 14:22:15 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:22:15 -0000
Subject: closing sockets
References: <mailman.1453.1128449723.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11k5i2ns09mg0f@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Mohammed Smadi <smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
> hi;
>
> i am executing program whcih uses a tcp socket.  At the end of the program 
> i do s.close() where s is my socket.
>
> when i try to run the program again right away i get the following error
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "asterisk_login.py", line 14, in ?
>     s.bind(("", hp_port)) # do some error checking
>   File "<string>", line 1, in bind
> socket.error: (98, 'Address already in use')
>
> how can i get around that

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=socket.error%3A+%2898%2C+%27Address+already+in+use%27%29&btnG=Google+Search

The first hit has this link which explains it very well:

http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/Tech/addrinuse.html

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want to kill
                                  at               everyone here with a cute
                               visi.com            colorful Hydrogen Bomb!!


From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 07:49:12 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 04:49:12 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Any other ideas? or examples of using subprocess to do what I was
asking?


Kent Johnson wrote:
> jas wrote:
> > I would like to redirect the output from os.system to a variable, but
> > am having trouble.  I tried using os.popen(..).read() ...but that
> > doesn't give me exactly what i want.
>
> Here is an example using subprocess:
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/9fa3a3c287e8e2a3?hl=en&
>
> Kent
>
> >
> > ..this is windows by the way.
> >
> > For example:
> > tmp = os.popen("hostname").read()
> >
> > ...works as expected.
> >
> > however,
> >
> > tmp = os.popen("cmd").read()
> > ...i would like to have access to the cmd process...i.e. enter commands
> > like a normal command line. os.system() allows this, but i dont want
> > output to the screen..i wanna store it to a variable.  then send
> > content of variable elsewhere,  receive more input and submit it.
> > almost emulate the windows command prompt.
> > 
> > any ideas?
> >



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  6 09:15:32 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:15:32 +0100
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <di3757$oql$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<di3757$oql$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <di381b$cqq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Richard Brodie wrote:
> "Flavio" <fccoelho at gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1128603314.197733.119160 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 
> 
>>Now what would you do if you wanted to pass a lot of variables (like a
>>thousand) to a function and did not wanted the declare them in the
>>function header?
> 
> 
> I'd lie down until I felt better.
> 
> 
Or alternatively put them in a 1,000-element list. Just as a matter of 
interest, what on *earth* is the use case for a function with a thousand 
arguments?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From ronpro at cox.net  Tue Oct 18 22:30:33 2005
From: ronpro at cox.net (Ron Provost)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:30:33 -0400
Subject: Tkinter or Python issue?
Message-ID: <98i5f.3686$vS1.1306@dukeread03>

Hello,

I'm using python 2.4.2 on Win XP Pro.  I'm trying to understand a behavior 
I'm seeing in some Tkinter code I have.  I've reduced my question to a small 
piece of code:


#####BEGIN CODE
#################
import Tkinter as Tk
import tkFont

sampleText = """Here is a test string.  This is more text
Here is a second line of text.  How much
more can I type.  I can't think of anything else to type.
"""

root = Tk.Tk( )
t = Tk.Text( root )
t.pack( )

t.insert( Tk.END, sampleText )

t.tag_config( 'AB', font=tkFont.Font( family='ariel', size=24, 
weight=tkFont.BOLD ) )
t.tag_config( 'TBU', font=tkFont.Font( family='times', size=10, 
weight=tkFont.BOLD, underline=1 ) )

t.tag_add( 'AB', '1.8', '1.15' )
t.tag_add( 'TBU', '2.10', '2.30' )

root.mainloop( )
#################
#######END CODE

Now when I run this I expect to see a small bit of the sampleText in ariel 
bold and another bit in times bold underline, instead I see both bits in the 
later style.  Interestingly, if I create the Font objects before calling 
t.tag_config() (i.e. replace the two t.tag_config( ) lines with the 
following):


f1 = font=tkFont.Font( family='ariel', size=24, weight=tkFont.BOLD )
f2 = font=tkFont.Font( family='times', size=10, weight=tkFont.BOLD, 
underline=1 )
t.tag_config( 'AB', font=f1 )
t.tag_config( 'TBU', font=f2 )


In rerunning the code, I see each bit of text now styled differently.  This 
is the behavior that I both expect and want.  Does anybody know why the two 
bits of code result in different behavior?  Is it a Python thing or a 
Tkinter thing?

Thanks for your feedback.

Ron 




From jr2075 at columbia.edu  Sat Oct  1 19:17:39 2005
From: jr2075 at columbia.edu (Jesse Rosenthal)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 19:17:39 -0400
Subject: Background process for ssh port forwarding
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.01.23.17.38.878080@columbia.edu>

Hello all,

I'm writing a script which will backup data from my machine to a server
using rsync. It checks to see if I am on the local network. If I am, it
runs rsync over ssh to 192.168.2.6 using the pexpect module to log in.
That's the easy part.

Now, when I'm not on the local network, I first want to open up an ssh
connection to do port forwarding, so something like this:

def hostforward():
    #This is based on the assumption that the passfile is the gnus
    #authinfo file, or has a similar format...
    f = open(PASS_FILE, "r")
    f_list = f.read().split(' ')
    f.close()
    #Now, we get the entry after "password" (be slicker to make it a
    #dictionary, but maybe wouldn't work as well).
    pass_index = f_list.index('password') + 1
    forwardpass = f_list[pass_index]
    #now we connect
    command = 'ssh -l %s -L 2022:%s:22 %s' % \
              (login, my_server, forwarding_server)
    connection = pexpect.spawn(command)
    connection.expect('.*assword:')
    connection.sendline(forwardpass)

If I end this with 'connection.interact()', I will end up logged in to the
forwarding server. But what I really want is to go on and run rsync to
localhost port 2022, which will forward to my_server port 22. So, how can
I put the ssh connection I set up in hostforward() in the background?
I need to make sure that connection is made before I can run the rsync
command.

I've looked at threading, but that seems excessive. There must be an
easier way. Whatever I do, though, I'll need to use pexpect to spawn the
processes, since I'll need to log in to ssh servers with a password.

Thanks for any help.

--Jesse




From howardrh at westerncom.net  Mon Oct 10 13:55:51 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 10:55:51 -0700
Subject: Learning Python
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1128966951.012055.315970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

A good introduction to Python is the recently published book "Beginning
Python from Novice to Pro".  It provides a quick introduction to
Python, skips a lot of the details hard core programmers expect, and
has very few samples of difficult to understand lines of code that can
easily discourage the novice programmer.

Paul DiRezze wrote:
> I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at
> learning how to program in Python.  Here's a list of the places I've
> bookmarked:
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/ and more specifically
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
> http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
> http://www.python.org/topics/
>
> I'm looking for additional resources (links, names of books,
> whatever...) that you think may help me out.
>
> I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know
> procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and
> polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as I've
> written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a primer in
> OO programming).
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> paul



From alevinci at cheapnet.it  Mon Oct 17 16:05:30 2005
From: alevinci at cheapnet.it (Vinci)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 13:05:30 -0700
Subject: Xml document writing
Message-ID: <1129579530.889814.290050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I have to append a child under a node of a Xml document: I tried to
create both a text and a node element, but the child doesn't figure in
the Xml document.

Can anyone help me?

Thank you very much! :)

--
Vinci



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct 13 13:08:04 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:08:04 -0500
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <17230.38004.290177.179818@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Diez> AFAIK some LISPs do a similar trick to carry int values on
    Diez> cons-cells.  And by this tehy reduce integer precision to 28 bit
    Diez> or something. Surely _not_ going to pass a regression test suite
    Diez> :)

I'm pretty sure this was tried a few years ago w/ Python.  I don't recall
the results, but I'm pretty sure they weren't good enough.  had they been we
could just look at the source.

Folks, most common GC schemes have been tried as experiments over the years.
None have succeeeded, for various reasons.  I think one of the main reasons
is that Python has to "play nice" with external libraries, many of which
weren't written with GC beyond malloc and free in mind.

Here are some pointers interested readers might want to check out:

    Tagged integers: 
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046139.html

    Boehm GC:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-January/051370.html
        http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#how-does-python-manage-memory
        http://wiki.python.org/moin/CodingProjectIdeas/PythonGarbageCollected

    Miscellaneous:
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-June/026032.html
        http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/040299.html

And lest anyone here think they were the first to suggest getting rid of
reference counting in Python:

    http://www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1993/0554.html

I wouldn't be surprised if there were even earlier suggestions...

Skip


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 20 06:28:00 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:28:00 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:33sj23-6om.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

> Not if they abuse a monopoly position in doing so, which is where we
> started.

    In other words, what they did was wrong because it was them who did it. 
It is fine if anyone else does, just not fine if Microsoft does it.

    And what is it they have a monopoly in again? Operating systems? What 
about OSX? x86 operating systems? What about Linux? Oh yeah, they have a 
monopoly in "desktop operating systems for x86-based computers".

    Can you cite any rational reason whatsoever for defining the market so 
ridiculously narrowly? Of course not.

    There is no rational way Microsoft could have expected the irrational 
and nonsensical basis for this argument.

    DS




From peter at commonlawgov.org  Sat Oct  1 22:08:54 2005
From: peter at commonlawgov.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 19:08:54 -0700
Subject: Class Help
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F19ACFB39FA1BF89D078523A28E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY103-F19ACFB39FA1BF89D078523A28E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <433F4136.4060307@commonlawgov.org>

Ivan Shevanski wrote:

>To continue with my previous problems, now I'm trying out classes.  But I 
>have a problem (which I bet is easily solveable) that I really don't get.  
>The numerous tutorials I've looked at just confsed me.For intance:
>
>  
>
>>>>class Xyz:
>>>>        
>>>>
>...     def y(self):
>...             q = 2
>...
>  
>
>>>>Xyz.y()
>>>>        
>>>>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: unbound method y() must be called with Xyz instance as first 
>argument
>(got nothing instead)
>
>
>So. . .What do I have to do? I know this is an extremley noob question but I 
>think maybe if a person explained it to me I would finally get it =/
>
>  
>
You have to create an instance of the class before it can be called. Ex:
class foo:
    def bar(self):
        print "Hello, World!"
    foo().bar()

This is because foo is a reference to a classobj, however, when you call 
the class, it becomes an instance.

Ex:
 >>> type(foo)
<type 'classobj'>
 >>> type(foo())
<type 'instance'>

When an instance is created it tells Python to pass the instance as the 
first argument (self).
Otherwise it gives it None or something similer. (Note that im not 100% 
sure about why it does'nt work, im just guessing from the way it _seems_ 
to work. I have read no documentation on this.

If you want it to work before you create an instance, then you can do 
that with
class foo:
    @classmethod
    def bar(self):
       print "Hello, World!"

or the older (but exactly the same):
class foo:
    def bar(self):
       print "Hello, World!"
    bar = classmethod(bar)

>thanks in advance,
>
>-Ivan
>
>  
>
HTH,
Peter



From ron at vnetworx.net  Fri Oct 14 14:33:46 2005
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Ron Guerin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:33:46 -0400
Subject: NYLUG meeting: The Python Object Model with Alex Martelli
	&	Google(open bar and food!)
In-Reply-To: <1129312792.c8c0370da34fd63e5cace1fe6133aff9@teranews>
References: <mailman.2077.1129308291.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129312792.c8c0370da34fd63e5cace1fe6133aff9@teranews>
Message-ID: <434FFA0A.4050400@vnetworx.net>

George Sakkis wrote:
> 
> 
> What date is it ? It isn't mentioned at the web site either.
> 

Sorry about that, actually it is on the web site, right at the top in
the blue band.

October 26, 2005  6:00pm - 10:00pm

Hope to see you there.

- Ron


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 23:30:01 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:30:01 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 

>> No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they
>> would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it
>> recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML
>> standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they
>> talk about W3C *recommendations*. 
> 
> In that sense there are no standards in software.  The ISO C++
> "standard" and the XML "recommendation" have the same amount of force
> behind them. 

Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation. For some 
people that *does* matter. Hence there is ISO HTML and there is a HTML 4.01 
recommendation.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From UrsusMaximus at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 18:06:59 2005
From: UrsusMaximus at gmail.com (UrsusMaximus at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 15:06:59 -0700
Subject: Popularity of blogging tools used by python programmers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129846019.329027.119980@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

You might also consider Firedrop2, (see
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/arch_d7_2005_10_15.shtml#e119
) , a client side blog creation and content management system created
by Hans Nowak and now being enhnaced and maintained by Michael Foord.
Its very pythonic and extensable.

Ron Stephens
Python411 podcast sereis
http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 11 07:16:24 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:16:24 -0400
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1880.1129014577.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.1880.1129014577.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kp6dnY3KcbyZAtbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
 > Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Ignoring all the other issues, any solution which actually requires 
>> the password to be stored on the server is a bad solution.  
>> Administrators should not have access to user passwords, and in 
>> addition users should not be put in the position of having to trust 
>> your server-side security to keep their passwords (which they might 
>> have used on other systems) from being grabbed by hackers.
>>
> Users will always need to trust in the server. The authentication 
> process ensures that the
> client is really talking with the desired server and vice versa. But 
> even if you know that you
> are talking to the right server, you need to trust in the server. The 
> administrator of the server
> has access to all data. Possibly other persons and softwares too. 
> Passwords are not different from this point of view.

If you're saying that people have no choice but to trust that their 
passwords, stored in the clear on the server of some idiot who didn't 
know better, are safe from casual administrator observation and safe 
from hackers stealing the password file, then you shouldn't be allowed 
anywhere near a supposedly secure system...

If you're just saying that one has to trust that the server you are 
talking to at this instant in time is really the one you thought it was, 
then that's an entirely different issue and I agree.

But storing passwords in the clear, thus allowing administrators full 
access to users' passwords, is absolutely *not* necessary.  That's my 
point, regardless of what other issues this thread spawns.  If the OP 
implements strictly the sequence he mentioned in the posting to which I 
was replying, he'll be the aforementioned idiot...

-Peter


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Mon Oct 17 03:28:46 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:28:46 +0200
Subject: Outdated documentation
Message-ID: <435352AE.7030105@designaproduct.biz>


    Hi All,


This is from the documentation of the dbhash module:

    Returns the key next key/value pair in a database traversal. The
    following code prints every key in the database |db|, without having
    to create a list in memory that contains them all:

print db.first()
for i in xrange(1, len(db)):
    print db.next()


Apparently, it is different for gdbm:

k = db.firstkey()
while k != None:
    print k
    k = db.nextkey(k)

I think both of them is outdated. This should be:

for key,value in db.iteritems():
    print key,value

Is this the good place to post?

  Les



From akbarhome at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 05:12:09 2005
From: akbarhome at gmail.com (akbarhome at gmail.com)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 02:12:09 -0700
Subject: "import socket" error
Message-ID: <1128849129.254683.155420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am following this tutorial
https://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/iwm/web/preLogin.do?source=dw-linux-pysocks&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR&ca=dgr-lnxw07PythonSockets
( free reg. req. )

The article told me to do this:

[camus]$ python
Python 2.4 (#1, Feb 20 2005, 11:25:45)
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
   information.
>>> import socket
>>> socket.gethostbyname('www.ibm.com')
'129.42.19.99'
>>>

When I try it, I get this error:
>>> import socket
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.py", line 1, in ?
    # Wrapper module for _socket, providing some additional facilities
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/SocketServer.py", line 274, in ?
    class TCPServer(BaseServer):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/SocketServer.py", line 317, in TCPServer
    address_family = socket.AF_INET
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'AF_INET'
>>>


Why? Thank you.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct  3 17:54:06 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:54:06 -0500
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
In-Reply-To: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051003215406.GA7081@unpythonic.net>

As for performance, you'll need to benchmark it.

However, I think the functionality you're asking for is available as
inspect.currentframe(), and if the implementation is in "C" it may have a tiny
performance advantage over the Python version.

Jeff
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From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Sun Oct 30 23:41:34 2005
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 04:41:34 GMT
Subject: need  start point for getting html info from web
References: <1130724071.688187.59230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2gh9f.55954$GQ.22073@tornado.texas.rr.com>

<nephish at xit.net> wrote in message
news:1130724071.688187.59230 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> hey there,
>
> i have a small app that i am going to need to get information from a
> few tables on different websites. i have looked at urllib and httplib.
> the sites i need to get data from mostly have this data in tables. So
> that, i think would make it easier. Anyone suggest a good starting
> point for me to find out how to do this, or know of a link to a good
> how-to?
> thanks,
> sk
>
pyparsing comes with a simple HTML scraper example for extracting the NIST
NTP servers from an HTML table.  pyparsing is also fairly tolerant of
"unclean" HTML.  Download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net.

-- Paul




From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 05:54:00 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:54:00 +0200
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
In-Reply-To: <dil4t3$95o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
	<3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de> <dil4t3$95o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3r6p5oFhvtg1U1@uni-berlin.de>

> The implementation is certainly a design decision. setdefault() could be
> implemented in terms of __set/getitem__() as
> 
> def setdefault(self, key, value=None):
>     try:
>         return self[key]
>     except KeyError:
>         self[key] = value
>         return self[key]
> 
> I guess it's not done for performance reasons. 

Nope. What if you changed your default value? Then you'd have to update 
the whole dictionary - but without keeping track of the keys you placed 
the default value under that isn't possible. Which strikes me as 
more-than-marginal overhead - without any advantage (as using 
__setitem__ for the default value isn't something I consider being a 
missing feature...)

Diez


From pas at despam  Wed Oct 12 16:16:47 2005
From: pas at despam (gg)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:16:47 +0200
Subject: crosswords helper program
In-Reply-To: <6ugv13-h73.ln1@rogers.com>
References: <434cd0b3$0$5378$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<6ugv13-h73.ln1@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <434d6f23$0$1733$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Chris F.A. Johnson a ?crit :
> On 2005-10-12, gg wrote:
> 
>>I plan to write a program in Python in order to help me doing 
>>crosswords, I was wondering if such a program already existed.
>>
>>Basically it will get the number of letters of the word (5, 10, 12...) 
>>then the letters known (B in second letter, E in 5th letter...) and then 
>>search in a dictionary the words matching this criteria
> 
> 
> import os
> pattern = "B...E.."
> wordfile = "/usr/share/dict/words"
> cmd = "grep -i '\<" + pattern + "\>' " + wordfile
> os.system( cmd )
> 
thanks to all, that should do the trick


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 16:29:13 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:29:13 -0000
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, ncf <nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hmm...perhaps he is trying to do a transfer thing like many chat
> programs do. Instead of sending large files across a server, you
> "Direct Connect" and send the file directly. :shrugs:

So how does that require binding the client end of a TCP
connection?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want you to
                                  at               MEMORIZE the collected
                               visi.com            poems of EDNA ST VINCENT
                                                   MILLAY... BACKWARDS!!


From percivall at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 16:57:30 2005
From: percivall at gmail.com (Simon Percivall)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 13:57:30 -0700
Subject: Simple server/client application
In-Reply-To: <1130184666.541928.133350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130184666.541928.133350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130187450.794254.60660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

You're calling the grid() method on the Entry object you're
instanciating. Are you sure that the grid() method returns the Entry
object so that you're actually binding it to self.myAddress?



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 08:08:10 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:08:10 +0200
Subject: assigning in nested functions
References: <4349056D.1060805@vlakosim.com>
Message-ID: <dib17c$eve$1@sea.gmane.org>

"jena" wrote:

> I have code
>
> # BEGIN CODE
> def test():
>   def x():
>     print a
>     a=2 # ***
>
>   a=1
>   x()
>   print a
>
> test()
> # END CODE
>
> This code fails (on statement print a in def x), if I omit line marked
> ***, it works (it prints 1\n1\n). It look like when I assign variable in
> nested function, I cannot access variable in container function.
> I need to assign variable in container function, is any way to do this?

no.

see "Rebinding names in enclosing scopes" in the design document
for a discussion (and a workaround):

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0227.html

</F>





From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct  1 21:38:22 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 01:38:22 GMT
Subject: PyWin SendMessage
References: <dhgs79$eff$1@online.de>
	<7jczvrb5.fsf@python.net>	<dhh7dr$23o$1@online.de>
	<k6gzu4vg.fsf@python.net> <dhhgvq$kl9$1@online.de>
	<mailman.1230.1128064799.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cdeuj111h0tvidhdm5ckrm9ji0i612ifhm@4ax.com>

Gonzalo Monz?n <gmc at serveisw3.net> wrote:
>
>Hi Gerd,
>
>I'm not really sure of, but I think you must use a message value in 
>range of WM_USER or WM_APP so this fact maybe let the receiver window 
>getting bad data... 

No.  WM_COPYDATA is designed specifically for his use case -- interprocess
communication.  The WM_USER range is only if you are inventing a custom
message for some new purpose.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 11:43:13 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:43:13 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:56:28 -0500, joe wrote:

> Yes, I know, they can do whatever they want, it's not a crime,
> etc. However when they use their market position to disallow
> competition, it sounds to me like they're worried about something, and
> trying to squelch it.

But that's the whole point: they *can't* do whatever they want, and
certain behaviours *are* crimes. Just because Microsoft executives wear
business suits instead of torn jeans or dirty sweatshirts doesn't make
them beyond the law.


-- 
Steven.



From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 20 10:36:16 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:36:16 -0000
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <11lfar07s5lbk4c@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-20, Christian <christian at spam.not> wrote:

> How do I export an environment variable in a .py script?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-procinfo.html#l2h-1548

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My BIOLOGICAL ALARM
                                  at               CLOCK just went off... It
                               visi.com            has noiseless DOZE FUNCTION
                                                   and full kitchen!!


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 29 14:34:49 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:34:49 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djqc0r$3fd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xhdb35ghc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djqhpm$5oh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <jvf7m1tlcdmmmb50bnfa5rh5q3o7qhanlm@4ax.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>
>>>     To call it an "established legal fact" is to grossly distort the
>>> circumstances under which it was determined and upheld.
>
>> Who is paying you to post such nonsense?
>
>    That's basically slander.

Slander is spoken.  When it's written down like this, it's libel.
Slander/spoken start with S, libel/literature start with L.

Normally, I would never post such a trivial correction, but I thought it
was quite appropriate to throw yet another completely useless fact into
this completely useless thread, which was started by a completely useless
troll.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct 27 16:42:11 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:42:11 -0500
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
In-Reply-To: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17249.15267.512151.986415@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Daniel> How can I replace all None values with the string 'Null' in a
    Daniel> dictionary?

    a = {'item1': 45, 'item2': None}
    for key in a:
        if a[key] is None:
            a[key] = "Null"

Skip


From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Thu Oct  6 02:23:18 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:23:18 +0200
Subject: updating local()
References: <slrndk80rn.ddo.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<mailman.1556.1128532429.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk9glt.8f7.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Jp Calderone enlightened us with:
> If I can call functions in your process space, I've already taken
> over your whole program.

That's true for standalone programs, but not for things like web
applications, RPC calls etc.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From nephish at xit.net  Tue Oct  4 10:25:51 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 07:25:51 -0700
Subject: question about smtplib
In-Reply-To: <lud5ml1ufu.fsf@ohana.lan>
References: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1404.1128375138.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128380307.865252.289510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1494k1pvqvo9lg21q8bhi9qrgmc2ftl5kn@4ax.com>
	<lud5ml1ufu.fsf@ohana.lan>
Message-ID: <1128435951.216282.276350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

thanks for all the help,
got it working ok now, connecting once, sending many.

thanks for the link too. 

cheers,
sk



From jabel at plus.net  Tue Oct 25 05:04:52 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:04:52 +0100
Subject: Python/Apache Oddness On OSX
In-Reply-To: <1130196040.005404.263530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2482.1130165182.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130196040.005404.263530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435DF534.3030906@plus.net>

grahamd at dscpl.com.au wrote:

>John Abel wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm running Python 2.3.5/2.4.2 on OSX 10.4.2, and am trying to run CGI
>>scripts using the builtin Apache.  For ease, I've symlinked my custom
>>modules into the /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages directory, and they
>>import OK via command line python.  However, when I perform the import
>>from a cgi script, python fails to find the module.  It is definately
>>something to do with the symlink, as the CGI works OK if I copy the
>>directory into site-packages.  Is there some oddness with Python/Apache
>>and symlink imports?
>>
>>Any pointers would be most useful.
>>    
>>
>
>If running OS supplied Apache, it runs as the user "www". Because this
>isn't you or root, check that the directory your symlink points at is
>accessible to others as well as any directories above it back up to the
>root directory. If it isn't accessible, the user Apache runs as will
>not
>be able to find and use the files. When you are copying the directory
>you are possibly giving it read access for others in  the process and
>that is why it works then.
>
>Graham
>
>  
>
Yup, that's the problem.  Just got to figure out OSX's permissions, now.

Thank you!

J


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 23:27:21 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:27:21 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<khz4f.25000$pJ3.1035408@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1E46CEDEE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>> Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> 
>>>John Bokma wrote:
>> 
>>>>web based applications that work with any browser make OS irrelevant
>>>>-> not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter which Linux 
>>>>distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet people seem to
>>>>make a point of which distribution they use.
>>>
>>>You make the point yourself now: if web based applications work with
>>>any browser, people can freely choose their distribution based on
>>>their own preferences.
>> 
>> 
>> Yup, and what will they pick? 
> 
> The one of their choice. Nobody knows which one that will be.

Let me guess: Microsoft.

> Maybe MS.

I am quite sure about that one.

> But that's not the point; the point is that they have the choice. 
> If MS had it its way, they wouldn't have that choice.

I doubt that. But even if you're right, do you really think that MS is 
the only evil company on earth working like this? Do you really think 
that companies like Disney, Sony, Intel, AMD, Apple, etc work any 
different?

>>>- An application works in IE, Firefox, Konqueror, Safari, Lynx,
>>>Links, Opera, ... -> users can use it with any browser on any OS
>> 
>> I think that we both understand that one browser will be more
>> compatible then an other. It will only happen if all use exactly the
>> same render engine, or all web recommendations are frozen.
> 
> Thousands and thousands of website work perfectly in all of the
> aforementioned websites right now.

Maybe you define perfectly different then me, but have a look at the 
Acid tests for example. Even between minor versions of for example 
Firefox, or Opera there are differences in rendering. I won't call that 
perfectly, but maybe because I am a programmer.

>> And if that happens, people selling stuff will find ways to make
>> their version just a little better.
> 
> It's very well possible to compete without breaking compatibility.
> That's what Firefox, Opera, Konqueror etc. are already doing.

Is that why people who design websites use both Firefox and Opera for 
testing? IIRC there are ambiguous parts in the CSS working drafts, and 
Opera thinks their interpretation is correct, which, (again IIRC) 
differs from other developers. Once the render engine is stable (my best 
guess, another 5-7 years), there will be (for quite some time) new 
things, that will worry developers of sites.

>> Look at processors: which one would you buy at the moment? AMD?
>> Intel? and if you pick a brand, which type?
> 
> Depends on my needs, budget and the specs and price of the available
> offers. Plus I always have a small, admittedly perhaps unjustified,
> preference for the underdog; in the past that was AMD, in the future
> that may very well be Intel. But I don't see the point of that
> question.

Others just pick Intel, because it's Intel. The same is happening for 
MS. People just buy MS, they don't care that it's cheaper (or maybe 
"cheaper") to install Linux + OpenOffice (for example). MS, so it's 
good.

>> As soon as products can't evolve much more, the producers will find
>> ways to make them even better compared to last week.
> 
> As products can't evolve much more, the producers will find ways to
> make them evolve?? Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say
> here. 

As soon as the customer thinks the product is finished, the producer 
will create new things that should be there. How much more features do 
you want in an Office application? An instant message application? Do 
you need nudges, winks, voice samples? Wait until MSN Messenger 8 comes 
out, and then 9, maybe 10?

>> Or wait until there comes a solution from a 3rd party. Force doesn't 
>> exists with software unless you can manipulate the law to enforce it.
>> And I don't believe that everybody at Microsoft was/is that stupid to
>> think they can make that something they don't controll only works
>> with their software. Sure they can make it harder, like I said, you
>> can always add things, especially if you are the major player, but
>> Firefox is a nice proof that there is no such force, and I doubt that
>> there are people working at Microsoft in major positions who didn't
>> see this coming.
> 
> Maybe they can force it, maybe not, but that's not the point (again).
> The point is what their intentions are, and that is trying to lock
> people into using their software.

Can you name big companies that don't do this?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From benji at benjiyork.com  Tue Oct  4 09:16:27 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:16:27 -0400
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,	or go with a dot net
	language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434280AB.3030708@benjiyork.com>

Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
> If not Ironpython, Boo (which could be considered almost an static
> version of Python for .NET) would be a great choice.

You could also use Python for .Net 
(http://www.zope.org/Members/Brian/PythonNet).
--
Benji York



From harddong at 21cn.net  Mon Oct 24 09:07:04 2005
From: harddong at 21cn.net (Gonnasi)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:07:04 +0800
Subject: How to separate directory list and file list?
References: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2440.1130081511.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oumpl1ht6arvab2u7v094i7grl9l5m6qjk@4ax.com>

Lots of thanks for your help, My code can return the right result now.

Thanks again!

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:27:49 +0200, "Fredrik Lundh"
<fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>"Gonnasi" wrote:
>
>> With
>> >glob.glob("*")
>>
>> or
>> >os.listdir(cwd)
>>
>> I can get a combined file list with directory list, but I just wanna a
>> bare file list, no directory list. How to get it?
>
>use os.path.isfile on the result.
>
>    for file in glob.glob("*"):
>        if not os.path.isfile(file):
>            continue
>        ... deal with file ...
>
>    for file in os.listdir(cwd):
>        file = os.path.join(cwd, file)
>        if not os.path.isfile(file):
>            continue
>        ... deal with file ...
>
>    files = map(os.path.isfile, glob.glob("*"))
>
>    files = (file for file in os.listdir(cwd) if os.path.isfile(os.path.join(cwd, file)))
>
>etc.
>
></F>
>
>



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 17:27:55 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:27:55 -0400
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86ll0h2so4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

> On Tuesday 25 October 2005 00:31, Duncan Booth wrote:
>> P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting
> James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> writes:
> I'm sorry if I can't find a dumb terminal for a "VAX" with which to read my 
> email. Perhaps, if i could, I would understand your frustration a little 
> better.

You don't need a VAX. All it takes is trying to dethread a top-posted
conversation. I've given up in frustration on more than one such
venture.

> The only reason I'm making a point of this is that many people come to python> from fields other than computer science or hacker-ology. Posting styles will 
> vary considerably among these people, so deal with the deviants carefully. 

I belive Duncan did so. He asked you to "please* avoid to
top-posting".

> Their differences in styles, like mine, probably arise from the culture of 
> their respective fields. Most, like me, may not even know what the heck you 
> are talking about. Also, here is a well written synopsis of the arguments in 
> favor of top-posting and they may even be strong enough to legitimize the 
> practice:
>        http://alpage.ath.cx/toppost/toppost.htm

Well, if I could find a 300 baud modem, I might understand his
objection to not top-posting (he really only has one). His comments
about why people shouldn't complain about top-posting are full of
suggestions that don't generally work on netnews and mail, though they
may be valid elsewhere, and his suggestion about when to top-post
leaves out the *very important* criteria that you don't expect to read
any replies to your comment, and don't care if you make life difficult
for those who have different expectations.

He's right about inadequately-trimmed repklies, though. Not being on a
300 baud modem, I don't think they're as annoying as top-posting, but
they are certainly something that we can do without.

> In light of these arguments, I hereby reserve the right to revert to 
> top-posting if the compulsion overwhelms me.

That's your right. Be aware that people will ignore, correct and/or
complain about you doing so.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Fri Oct 28 23:27:41 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:27:41 -0500
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net>

"Paul Watson" <pwatson at redlinepy.com> wrote in message 
news:3sf070Fo0klqU1 at individual.net...
> <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:1130497567.764104.125110 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>I want to scan a file byte for byte for occurences of the the four byte
>> pattern 0x00000100. I've tried with this:
>>
>> # start
>> import sys
>>
>> numChars = 0
>> startCode = 0
>> count = 0
>>
>> inputFile = sys.stdin
>>
>> while True:
>>    ch = inputFile.read(1)
>>    numChars += 1
>>
>>    if len(ch) < 1: break
>>
>>    startCode = ((startCode << 8) & 0xffffffff) | (ord(ch))
>>    if numChars < 4: continue
>>
>>    if startCode == 0x00000100:
>>        count = count + 1
>>
>> print count
>> # end
>>
>> But it is very slow. What is the fastest way to do this? Using some
>> native call? Using a buffer? Using whatever?
>>
>> /David

Here is a better one that counts, and not just detects, the substring.  This 
is -much- faster than using mmap; especially for a large file that may cause 
paging to start.  Using mmap can be -very- slow.

#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys

fn = 't2.dat'
ss = '\x00\x00\x01\x00'

be = len(ss) - 1        # length of overlap to check
blocksize = 64 * 1024    # need to ensure that blocksize > overlap

fp = open(fn, 'rb')
b = fp.read(blocksize)
count = 0
while len(b) > be:
    count += b.count(ss)
    b = b[-be:] + fp.read(blocksize)
fp.close()

print count
sys.exit(0) 




From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Fri Oct 21 08:53:44 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:53:44 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <200510210753.45675.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Friday 21 October 2005 07:07, bruno modulix wrote:
> >>Python is more like Java.
>
> <troll>
> Err... Python is more like what Java would have been if Java was a
> smart dynamic hi-level object oriented language !-)
> </troll>

+1. Python is easily applicable to most of the problem domain of Java, 
but solves problems much more elegantly. It just isn't shipped embedded 
in all leading browsers :-(.

- Michael


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Oct 25 01:08:14 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: Importing at runtime
In-Reply-To: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510242208.14463.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

exec "import something"

On Monday 24 October 2005 21:53, David Poundall wrote:
> I have several .py files in a directory that I would like to import at
> run time.  Each file contains a state machine that requires to be run
> in its own thread.
>
> The first problem I have is how can I import the code in all of the .py
> files without knowing the file names in advance.
>
> Can this be done ??
>
> TIA

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 13:15:59 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:15:59 +0200
Subject: Why do I get an import error on this?
References: <1128703953.497560.47620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di6agj$sfv$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Steve" wrote:

> I'm trying to run a Python program on Unix and I'm encountering some
> behavior I don't understand.  I'm a Unix newbie, and I'm wondering if
> someone can help.

> If I run it through the Python interpreter, this way:
>
>  >> python test.py
>
> it runs fine.
>
> But if I try to run it as an executable script, this way:
>
>  >> test.py
>
> I get an import error that says it can't find cx_Oracle.
>
> Why does it behave differently when I run it in these two ways, and
> what do I need to do to make it run successfully either way?

in the first case, the shell uses the PATH variable to search for a python
interpreter.  in the second case, the shell uses the path specified in the
script.

what does "which python" say?

</F>





From akiany at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 20:53:44 2005
From: akiany at gmail.com (Armin)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 17:53:44 -0700
Subject: Soap Question (WSDL)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1248.1128075693.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128034565.390767.222310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1248.1128075693.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128214424.625734.281940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the comment everyone.

I was considering to write my own soap interface to Flickr as apposed
to use the ready to go libraries for Flickr as Fredrik pointed out. I
got to get FlickrClient to work. Nonetheless, I am excited to use soap
services for my needs.

Thanks for your support,
Armin



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Oct 24 15:47:46 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:47:46 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hfedne2BseT-p8DenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

eric.pederson at gmail.com wrote:

> Finally diving into XML programmatically.  Does anyone have a best
> practice recommendation for programmatically discovering the structure
> of an arbitrary XML document via Python?
> 
> It seems like it is a common wheel I'd be re-inventing.

It is.  Look up XML DOM.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   An ounce of hypocrisy is worth a pound of ambition.
   -- Michael Korda


From grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 16:00:43 2005
From: grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 13:00:43 -0700
Subject: What's the best SNMP interface?
In-Reply-To: <1129050763.011814.92590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129050763.011814.92590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129060843.922067.265160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I used pySNMP successfully. I think it's the most active SNMP-related
Python project too.

Grig



From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 06:02:38 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:02:38 +0300
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djnk8d$1cq$1@news.tsua.net>



As far i know, in pickle-file there are only attributes values of a pickled object, but not an object itself.

It is possible to unpickle object only if you have the sourse of the class that object you have pickled.
So, if you have class code and attribute values of the class instance, there is no problem to produce a textual representation of the object. Isn't it?

(sorry for my English)

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I want to convert from pickle format to python source code. That is,
> given an existing pickle, I want to produce a textual representation
> which, when evaluated, yields the original object (as if I had
> unpickled the pickle).
> I know of some transformations pickle/xml (Zope comes with one such
> tool, gnosis xml is another) so I believe I could build something based
> on them.
> But I dont want to reinvent the wheel, I wonder if anyone knows of a
> library which could do what I want?
> 
> Thanks,
> Gabriel Genellina
> Softlab SRL
> 


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Mon Oct  3 15:19:09 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (M.N.A.Smadi)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:19:09 -0400
Subject: python getopt functionality
In-Reply-To: <dhrtkm$536$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <4341786B.1030901@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<dhrtkm$536$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4341842D.4060905@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

It is not clear to me if i can define `mandatory' options? That sounds 
strange but let say that the command `requires ' a value for -z or --zoo 
(either or should be find but one and only one of them MUST be 
present).  Can i do that with resorting to using if statements?

thanks
moe smadi
Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>"M.N.A.Smadi" wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I have a perl script that I need to port to python. The script takes
>>input from the command line.  Is there a standard way of processing
>>command line arguments based on the -flag preceeding the argument?
>>    
>>
>
>http://docs.python.org/lib/module-getopt.html
>http://docs.python.org/lib/module-optparse.html
>
></F>
>
>
>
>  
>



From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Wed Oct 19 07:19:21 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:19:21 -0000
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <3rmhdhFk29hgU1@individual.net>

Maybe looking at the todays thread  ["dynamical" importing] can be helpful
also here.

Claudio
P.S. Below a copy of one of the responses:
:
Joerg Schuster wrote:

> I need to import modules from user defined paths. I.e. I want to do
> something like:
>
> module_dir = sys.argv[1]
>
> my_path = os.path.join(module_dir, 'bin', 'my_module')
>
> from my_path import my_object
>
> Obviously, it doesn't work this way. How would it work?

some alternatives:

- if you want the modules to remain imported:

    try:
        sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(module_dir, "bin"))
        module = __import__("my_module")
    finally:
        del sys.path[0]
    object = module.my_object

- if you're only interested in the object:

    namespace = {}
    execfile(os.path.join(module_dir, "bin", "my_module" + ".py"),
namespace)
    object = namespace["my_object"]

</F>


"TokiDoki" <neuromancer at wanadoo.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dj492l$3hf$1 at apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net...
> Hello there,
>
> I have been programming python for a little while, now. But as I am
> beginning to do more complex stuff, I am running into small organization
> problems.
> It is possible that what I want to obtain is not possible, but I would
> like the advice of more experienced python programmers.
>
> I am writing a relatively complex program in python that has now around
> 40 files.
> At first, I had all of my files in one single directory, but now, with
> the increasing number of files, it is becoming hard to browse my
directory.
> So, I would want to be able to divide the files between 8 directory,
> according to their purpose. The problem is that it breaks the 'import's
>    between my files. And besides,AFAIK, there is no easy way to import a
> file that is not in a subdirectory of the current file (I suppose I
> could adjust the os.path in every file, but that seems not very elegant
> to me).
> I thought about turning the whole into a package. But I have to change
> every 'import module_name' into
> 'from package_name.sub_directory_name import module_name'
> which is a little bit time consuming and not very flexible (if I change
> my mind about the subdirectory a file belongs to, I will have to track
> again every import to correct them)
>
> So, basically, here is the point: is there an 'elegant' way to keep my
> files in separate directory and still be able to import between them
> with simple 'import filename'?
>
> And if not, what would be the standard way to organize numerous python
> files belonging to the same project?
>
> Thank you,
>
> TokiDoki




From peter at commonlawgov.org  Mon Oct 24 15:01:38 2005
From: peter at commonlawgov.org (Peter)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:01:38 -0700
Subject: difference after remove
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510240602j4916a088s63f4fe34857943d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510240602j4916a088s63f4fe34857943d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435D2F92.4020100@commonlawgov.org>

Shi Mu wrote:

>Is there any difference if I remove the '/'
>  
>
I will assume you mean "\", not "/". ;)

>from the following statement?
>intMatrix2 = [[1,1,2,4,1,7,1,7,6,9],\
>             [1,2,5,3,9,1,1,1,9,1],\
>             [0,0,5,1,1,1,9,7,7,7]]
>print intMatrix2
>  
>
>I removed one '\' and it still works.
>So what is the use of '\'?
>  
>
Python normaly executes a statement as soon as a new line is given.

A backslash is for "line continuation", it tells Python to ignore the 
new line (instead of executing the current line as it would normaly).
If line-continuation is used in a string it will also ignore the new 
line (handy for when the theres to much on the line already but you 
don't want to break the string into two peices).

In some situations (inside functions calls, tuples, lists) this is not 
needed.


**** Some examples of using line-continuation****

# -------------------------------------------------
## Example 1

# With line-continuation:
 >>> print "a"\
... "b"\
... "c"
abc

# Without line-continuation:
 >>> print "a"
a
 >>> "b"
'b'
 >>> "c"
'c'

# ---------------------------------------------------
## Example 2

# With line-continuation:
 >>> print "Hello, \
... World!"
Hello, World!

# Without line-continuation:
 >>> print "Hello,
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    print "Hello,
                 ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
 >>> World!"
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    World!"
         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

# -----------------------------------------
## Example 3

# With line-continuation:
 >>> print """Hello, \
... World!"""
Hello, World!

# Without line-continuation:
 >>> print """Hello,
... World!"""
Hello,
World!

# -----------------------------------------
## Example 4

# With line-continuation:
 >>> [1,\
... 2,\
... 3]
[1, 2, 3]

# Without line-continuation:
 >>> [1,
... 2,
... 3]
[1, 2, 3]

 >>>

**** / End examples ****

HTH,
Peter



From lameiro at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 03:22:31 2005
From: lameiro at gmail.com (Leandro Lameiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:22:31 -0300
Subject: MD5 module Pythonicity
In-Reply-To: <diq8fl$f0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <6815022a0510142223q3b6ae449ja0483f2f25ebb263@mail.gmail.com>
	<diq8fl$f0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6815022a0510150022i11952397k16989e08206627a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Fredrik (and other too). First of all, thanks for taking your time
to help me.

On 10/15/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> Leandro Lameiro wrote:
>
> > What's wrong in having a function like the one I said, that would
> > split files for you, feed md5.update and, when it is over, return the
> > digest?
>
> Calculating the digest sum for a file on disk, without doing anything else
> with that file, is a very small subset of everything you may want to use
> digests for.  Forcing every digest module to add code to cater for just
> one of many use cases is most likely a waste of time.
>

Seems that we are disagreeing about frequency of use of file hashes
compared to frequency of uses of all kind of digest.
I don't have a way to support my point of view, as it was just a
personal impression.
Maybe I've got a distorted impression about the importance of this. As
I'm not an experienced programmer, I'd probably trust more in your
impressions than mine. :)

> > "Although practicality beats purity."
> > "Readability counts."
> > "Beautiful is better than ugly."
> >
> > Have I got the wrong "Pythonic" definition?
>
> You're confusing the kitchensink approach with the modular approach.
> Bloated API:s are not practical, readable, nor beautiful.  Small flexible
> components that can be easily combined are.

Well, right. But for a very common thing (maybe not this one), is it
OK to add some functionality to the Standard Library?
I mean, if we all agreed that it is a common thing, a patch for this
would probably be accepted, or even if it was an agreed common thing,
it would still be a bad idea because it would bloat the API?

Thanks and Regards
Leandro Lameiro

>
> </F>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 00:06:36 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:06:36 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9 at 4ax.com...

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:59:33 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary.

> In the days prior to Win95, Microsoft said "Co-operate with us is this
> immoral scheme to screw OS/2 or go out of business.  Your choice."

> I call that extortion, even if their lawyers were careful enough to
> skirt the letter of the law.

    Do you think it would be immoral if Microsoft said, "we will only sell 
Windows wholesale to dealers who don't sell other operating systems?"

    DS




From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 21 13:28:46 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:28:46 -0400
Subject: Binding a variable?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43592348$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

Paul Dale wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that

No, Python variables don't work that way.
> 
> temp = 5

The name 'temp' is now bound to the integer 5. Think of temp as a pointer to an integer object with value 5.
> 
> list = [ temp ]

the name 'list' is bound to a list whose only member is a reference to the integer 5
> 
> temp == 6

Ok now temp is bound to a new integer, but the list hasn't changed - it's member is still a reference to 5
> 
> list
> 
> would show
> 
> list = [ 6 ]

You have to put a mutable object into the list - something whose state you can change. For example this works, because temp and lst[0] are references to the same mutable (changeable) list:
 >>> temp = [6]
 >>> lst = [temp]
 >>> lst
[[6]]
 >>> temp[0] = 5
 >>> lst
[[5]]

Kent


From http  Fri Oct 14 01:55:27 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 22:55:27 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2014.1129223261.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr7aoskvk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

skip at pobox.com writes:
> Folks, most common GC schemes have been tried as experiments over
> the years.  None have succeeeded, for various reasons.  I think one
> of the main reasons is that Python has to "play nice" with external
> libraries, many of which weren't written with GC beyond malloc and
> free in mind.

Most GC'd language implementations I've seen actually have friendlier
FFI's (foreign function interfaces) than Python does.  I find it very
easy to make errors with the reference counts in what little Python C
extension hacking I've done.  Maybe one gets better at it with
experience.

>     Tagged integers: 
>         http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/046139.html

That actually says there was a speedup from tagged ints with no
obvious counterbalancing cost.  However, it looks like there's no
traditional GC, it stays with the same reference counts for heap objects.

>     Boehm GC:
>         http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-January/051370.html

This mentions use of Python idioms like txt = open(filename).read()
expecting the file handle to get freed immediately.  I think there's
been some language extensions ("with" statement) discussed to replace
that idiom.  Note that the idiom is already not so safe in Jython.

The Boehm GC doesn't seem like the right choice for an interpreter
being built from scratch anyway, but who knows.  Maybe I'm being
premature but I'm already thinking of CPython as a legacy
implementation and PyPy as the more likely testbed for stuff like
this.  I sorta wanted to go to the current sprint but oh well.

> http://wiki.python.org/moin/CodingProjectIdeas/PythonGarbageCollected

This correctly describes difficulties of using a copying GC in
CPython.  Note that the Boehm GC is mark-and-sweep.  As Alex mentions,
that usually means there's a pause every so often while the GC scans
the entire heap, touching all data both live and dead (maybe the Boehm
GC got around this somehow).

I haven't been keeping up with this stuff in recent years so I have a
worse concern.  I don't know whether it's founded or not.  Basically
in the past decade or so, memory has gotten 100x larger and cpu's have
gotten 100x faster, but memory is less than 10x faster once you're out
of the cpu cache.  The mark phase of mark/sweep tends to have a very
random access pattern (at least for Lisp).  In the old days that
wasn't so bad, since a random memory access took maybe a couple of cpu
cycles, but today it takes hundreds of cycles.  So for applications
that use a lot of memory, simple mark/sweep may be a much worse dog
than it was in the Vax era, even if you don't mind the pauses.

>     Miscellaneous:
>       http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-June/026032.html

That looks potentially kind of neat, though it's not obvious what it does.

>       http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/040299.html

I'll try to read that sometime out of general interest.  I'm too
sleepy right now.

> And lest anyone here think they were the first to suggest getting rid of
> reference counting in Python:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1993/0554.html

I think the language suggestions in that message are sound in
principle, if not quite the right thing in every detail.  Lisp went
through about the same evolution in the 60's or 70's (before my time).

With PyPy, it looks like Python implementation methodology is getting
a lot more advanced, so hopefully some big performance gains are
possible, and the language will likely evolve to help things along.


From antonxx at gmx.de  Wed Oct 12 02:57:58 2005
From: antonxx at gmx.de (anton)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 23:57:58 -0700
Subject: HELP: Searching File Manager written in Python
References: <1129037968.366932.144250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129100278.841122.244650@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

To answer to you both:

The Norton Commander was a popular file manager for DOS,
but the idea of the 2 window concept is still used by a lot of
software.

On Linux the one I use is Midnight Commander (mc).

On Windows there are the 7-zip file manager see http://www.7-zip.org/
(7-zip is also a new compression format which is very good, there
exist also a linux command line version)

- Speed Commander is also a Windows filemanager.

- Atol is based on GTK runs on Linux and Windows
(http://atol.sourceforge.net/)
but is not written in python or cannot run commands
(I also get always error messages at startup that some drives are
missing, perhaps my cdrom or my zip drive, but this happens with
Gimp too -> so I believe GTK is the problem)

But actually I work on Windows, thats why I am searching
something which works on windows or better on Windows and Linux

Perhaps some Python+wxWindows Application would be best.

There exist a port of Atol to python+wxPython on:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/wxpyatol

But the project is stopped and abandonware ...

 Thanks a lot  for now :-) I will have a look on your suggestions.

  Stephane



From nil at dev.nul  Mon Oct 10 08:34:35 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:34:35 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>

<ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1128930699.799657.146210 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> try to use set.
>    L1 = [1,1,2,3,4]
>    L2 = [1,3, 99]
>    A = set(L1)
>    B = set(L2)
>
>    X = A-B
>    print X
>
>    Y = B-A
>    print Y
>
>    Z = A | B
>    print Z

But how "efficient" is this? Could you be a bit
more explicit on that point? What is the order
of complexity of set([...]) or of A-B, B-A,
A | B, A ^ B and A & B? - The Python Documentation
leaves me completely in the dark in this regard.

    Sorting the two lists and then extracting
A-B, B-A, A|B, A & B and A ^ B in one single
pass seems to me very likely to be much faster
for large lists.

Regards,
Christian




From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:10:58 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:10:58 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.33.40.829004@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <5e2rk1luqjbhrajhlv5lvscrouns0fra3n@4ax.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:33:43 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>> ...is pretty confusing - because "public key" is a term with a technical
>> meaning in cryptography - and a public key really *is* public.
>
>The term you want is "wrong", not "confusing".

In encryption the key you give others to encrypt messages to you is
called the "public key".  It is not public in the sense of everyone
knows it.

What term do you suggest?

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From pitonero at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 11:32:18 2005
From: pitonero at gmail.com (El Pitonero)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 08:32:18 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xxbgj4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128439938.509457.286790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> Let's see, say I'm a bank manager, and I want to close my cash vault
> at 5pm today and set its time lock so it can't be opened until 9am
> tomorrow, including by me.  Is that "handcuffs"?  It's normal
> procedure at any bank, for good reason. It's not necessarily some
> distrustful policy that the bank CEO set to keep me from robbing the
> bank.  I might have set the policy myself.  Java lets me do something
> similar with instance variables.  Why is it somehow an advantage for
> Python to withhold such a capability?

If so, you would probably be the type of person that also likes static
typing, type safety and variable declaration, right? You like your
language with extra baggages to improve some safety concerns, which
most Python programmers don't seem to need.

>   def countdown():
>     n = 3
>     while n > 0:
>        yield n
>   g = countdown()
>   print g.next()  # 3
>   print g.next()  # 2
>
> where's the Python feature that lets me modify g's internal value of n
> at this point?

You missed the point. I have, for fun, built a GUI application in
Python, while the program is running. I just kept on adding more and
more code to it. This, while the Python program is running. I was able
to change the GUI's look-and-feel, add more buttons, menus, all while
the programming is running. I was able to change the class definition,
preserve the previous object state variables. For that, you already
have event-based program and can use module reload and some metaclass
tricks to automatically relink your objects to new classes. Sure,
Python is not as friendly as Lisp/Scheme for interactive programming,
but you can still do a lot.

> [Other stuff incomprehensible and snipped].

Sigh, I gave you the keywords: containment and aggregation.

There are two ways of enhancing functionality from an existing
object/class. One way is by inheritance, that's aggregation. Another
way is by containment, that means that instead of inheriting, you add
the additional features as an object contained in the new object.

Vault encapsulation is one way to do OOP. But by no means it is the
only way. The whole access level thing (the "private" keyword) is not
an essential part of OOP. The concept of a "private" namespace is not
necessary for OOP. Just because you learned OOP from one particular
school of thought, does not mean that that's the only way. Let us call
your OOP "school A".

Another way of OOP is to accept by default that everything in the class
hierarchy is inheritable. And Python is by no means the only language
that does that. Now, obviously in this type of OOP you can run into
name collision. But if you actually follow this other school of
thought, you would organize your variables differently. Let us call
this type of OOP "school B".

Let me be more clear: when you have variables that are so, so, so
private that no one else should touch, from school B's point of view,
those variables do not belong to the object. They belong to another
object.

Let us say there is a financial instrument that pays some fixed coupon
interest:

class Bond:
    volatility = None
    interest = None
    def __init__(self):
        self.volatility = 0.3 # volatility from credit risk
        self.interest = 0.4

Now, you have another instrument that pays variable interest:

class VariableInterestBond(Bond):
    volatility = None # this one collides with the base class
    def __init__(self):
         Bond.__init__(self)
         self.volatility = 0.2 # volatility for variable interest
    def calculate(self):
         interest = self.get_variable_interest()
         ...
    def get_variable_interest(self):
         return self.interest * (1 + random.random()*self.volatility)
    ...

In this example, the subclass's "volatility" meant something else but
collides with the base class's "volatility". It should have been a
private variable, but now it accidentally overwrote an existing
variable.

We are trying to combine two "features" in the hierarchy tree:


Bond
|
|
+----- Variable Interest
|
|
Variable-Interest Bond

There are two ways to add the "variable interest" feature to the "bond"
object. One way is by aggregation (inheritance), which is shown above.
Another way is by containment.

If the subsclass's "volatility" should be private and encapsulated from
the main class hierarchy (i.e. Bond-like objects), then from school B's
point of view, it does not belong to the bond object. It would be
better to encapsulate it into another object.

class VariableInterest:
    volatility = None
    def __init__(self, interest):
        self.interest = interest
        self.volatility = 0.2
    def get_variable_interest(self):
         return self.interest * (1 + random.random()*self.volatility)

class VariableInterestBond(Bond):
    variable_interest_calculator = None
    def __init__(self):
         Bond.__init__(self)
         self.variable_interest_calculator =
VariableInterest(self.interest)
    def calculate(self):
         interest =
self.variable_interest_calculator.get_variable_interest()
         ...

That's one way of implementing it. Notice the name collision is gone.
It is gone because you have properly organized your concepts and your
objects.

If you start to follow more along school B's way of thinking, you
actually can eliminate the subclass, too.

class Bond:
    ...
    def set_variable_rate(self):
         self.variable_interest_calculator =
VariableInterest(self.interest)
    ...

That is, by moving the features from aggregation into containment,
often the depth of class inheritance tree can be shortened, too.

--------------------------------

So, if you really think along the lines of school B, the chance of name
collision reduces greatly. Because in your mind the state variables of
the objects are more important/meaningful than in the case of school A.
In school A you would often clutter the object's namespace with
auxiliary variables. In school B you move the clutter to somewhere
else.

As for Python's double leading underscores, it's just a short-term
"hardware" solution to name collision. In my opinion, a "software" code
refactoring is the long-term solution.



From carsten at uniqsys.com  Thu Oct 27 14:16:24 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:16:24 -0400
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510271100y32f6163es8a27524ccc37747c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>
	<312cfe2b0510270931r52a18d0em29168b9702d2c748@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051027174139.GC2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
	<312cfe2b0510271100y32f6163es8a27524ccc37747c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1130436984.22172.28.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 14:00, Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
> Not quite because if something(3) fails, I still want something(4) to
> run.  

def something_ignore_exceptions(x):
  try: something(x)
  except: pass

something_ignore_exceptions(1)
something_ignore_exceptions(2)
# etc...

HTH,

Carsten Haese




From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 14:02:31 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 11:02:31 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2020.1129225709.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>
	<1129192705.632826.145210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129225263.705977.181050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2020.1129225709.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129226551.255303.46270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Trent Mick wrote:
> Yes. The MS Platform SDK is free and includes a compiler that can target
> x86, ia64 and x64 (the latter is what MS -- and Sun -- are calling
> AMD64).

Thanks, looking at their site I can't find a Platform SDK for XP... am
I looking for the Windows 2003 Server SDK...?  Seems counter-intuitive
if so, but it does mention you can build 32 and 64-bit apps with it, I
just assumed they would be uh, for Windows Server.

Thanks again,
Brett



From xah at xahlee.org  Sun Oct 16 22:00:58 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 19:00:58 -0700
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: split a file full path
Message-ID: <1129514458.420045.75670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Split File Fullpath Into Parts

Xah Lee, 20051016

Often, we are given a file fullpath and we need to split it into the
directory name and file name. The file name is often split into a core
part and a extension part. For example:

'/Users/t/web/perl-python/I_Love_You.html'
becomes

'/Users/t/web/perl-python/'  (directory name)
'I_Love_You'                 (file's base name)
'.html'                      (file's ?extension?)


Depending on the language, some language will remove the trailing slash
after the dir name, and some will omit the dot before the suffix.

In Python, to split a full path into parts is done with the os.path
module. Example:

# python
import os.path

myPath = '/Users/t/web/perl-python/I_Love_You.html'
(dirName, fileName) = os.path.split(myPath)
(fileBaseName, fileExtension)=os.path.splitext(fileName)

print dirName         # /Users/t/web/perl-python
print fileName        # I_Love_You.html
print fileBaseName    # I_Love_You
print fileExtension   # .html


The official doc of the os.path module is at:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/module-os.path.html

In Perl, spliting a full path into parts is done like this:

# perl
use File::Basename;

$myPath = '/Users/t/web/perl-python/I_Love_You.html';

($fileBaseName, $dirName, $fileExtension) = fileparse($myPath,
('\.html') );

print $fileBaseName, "\n";   # I_Love_You
print $dirName, "\n";        # /Users/t/web/perl-python/
print $fileExtension, "\n";  # .html


Note: the second argument to fileparse() is a list of regex. In
particular, you need to escape the dot.

For the official doc, type in command line: ?perldoc File::Path?.
------
This post is archived at
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/split_fullpath.html

Schemers, a scsh version will be appreciated.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From NOSPAM.Blue27Jay at shaw.ca  Sat Oct  8 18:55:42 2005
From: NOSPAM.Blue27Jay at shaw.ca (DaveInSidney)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:55:42 GMT
Subject: Book "Python and Tkinter Programming"
References: <1128620086.240847.235490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <O7Y1f.109114$oW2.51048@pd7tw1no>

Check out BestBookBuys:
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Python_and_Tkinter_Programming-ISBN_1884777813.html?isrc=b-search

-- 
......................................................................
Remove NOSPAM. before replying

Pursuant to U.S. code, title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227
Any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is
subject to a fee of US $500.00. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these
terms. Consult <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html> for
details.




"striker" <striker at trip.net> wrote in message 
news:1128620086.240847.235490 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Does anyone who has this book willing to sell it.  Please e-mail me the
> condition and any other details if you are interested.
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 08:21:59 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:21:59 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:43:38 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> I notice that type(some_closure) and type(ordinary_function) both return
>> the same result, <type 'function'>. I also notice that both the closure
>> and ordinary functions have an attribute "func_closure". Is there a way to
>> tell which is a closure and which is not? In my tests, the ordinary
>> function has func_closure == None, but I don't know if that will always be
>> the case of just for my tests.
> 
> closure != function.
> 
> (did you read the wikipedia page?  

Yes I did. Did you read my post?

If you create a closure, using a memoization technique as per the original
post, and then call type() on that closure, Python reports <type 'function'>. 

If you use dir() on that closure-that-Python-calls-a-function, it tells
you that there is an attribute "func_closure". But ordinary functions that
aren't closures also have that attribute.

According to my tests, ordinary functions have None as the func_closure
attribute, but I don't know if that will always be the case, or just the
few examples I tested it. With a sample size of three, I have no
confidence that I've found a bullet-proof test.


Other that that, thank you for the links.

-- 
Steven.



From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 14:45:08 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:45:08 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <djglnk$jq8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:02:44 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>>     I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want 
>> to
>> live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me
>> know.

> In other words, "why don't you go back to Russia, you commie pinko
> fascist Jew Nazi".

    No.

> Mike Meyer has got just as much right to live in America as David
> Schwartz. Nice to see how quickly Americans' supposed love of freedom
> disappears once they are exposed to views that contradict their own.

    This is about whether we're talking *ABOUT* America, you idiot. It's as 
if he said the press has no freedom, and I replied, "if you want to talk 
about some country where that's true, fine, but this discussion presumed 
America as the basis".

    Remember, he is the one who said the government owned the economy. That 
may be true in some countries, but it's simply *FALSE* in this country. Our 
government has limited powers and ownership of the economy is not one of 
them.

    DS




From david at jotax.com  Sat Oct 15 17:50:36 2005
From: david at jotax.com (spinner)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 14:50:36 -0700
Subject: Queue question
Message-ID: <1129413036.271162.279880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

---------------------------------------------

A two parter newbie question I am afraid.

Am I right in thinking that using something like ...

item = a_queue.get()
print item

will not print 'item' unless or until there is an item in the queue to
retrieve.  Effectively stalling the thread at the .get() instruction?

I can see that this it may be tested for, using the .empty() function
thereby allowing the code to progress if there was nothing in the
queue, but how is .not_empty used ?

Thanks in advance
---------------------------------------------



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Sat Oct 15 09:44:50 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:44:50 -0700
Subject: Overloading & Overriden
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1275.1128090064.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D26@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
	<mailman.1275.1128090064.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43510755$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> "Iyer, Prasad C" wrote:
 >>...This message contains information that may be privileged or 
confidential
>>and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the
>>person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute,
>>or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  essage in error,
>>please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.
> 
> Oops.  Ok.  Done. 

Gotta love that reply to that biolerplate.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct  3 01:38:48 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 05:38:48 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<7x1x34f85u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<867jcvmz06.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <4340b0e9.3057685589@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:42:49 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

>Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
>> Well, it's a discussion of why a certain feature might be useful, not
>> that it's required.  Mike Meyer points out some reasons it might be
>> hard to do smoothly without changing Python semantics in a deep way
>> (i.e. Python 3.0 or later).  
>
>Actually, I think that the semantic changes required to make private
>do what you want are deep enough that the resulting language wouldn't
>be Python any longer. It has deep implications from the interpeter
>implementation all the way out to the design of the standard library,
>all of which would have to be reworked to make private do "the right
>thing."
>
>Not that I think that private is a bad idea. If I'm not writing
>python, then I'm probably writing Eiffel. Eiffel has facilities for
>protecting features, though the design is more consistent than the
>mishmash one gets in C++/Java. Nuts - in Eiffel, you can't write
>"instance.attribute = value"; assignment to an attribute has to be
>done in a method of the owning instance.
Actually, ISTM that's true of python too, considering that

    instance.attribute = value

is sort of syntactic sugar for

    instance.__setattr__('attribute', value)

so it's a (normally inherited) "method of the owning instance"
(taking that to mean a method of its class) that does the assignment.

>
>Which brings me to my point. Rather than trying to bandage Python to
>do what you want - and what, based on this thread, a lot of other
>people *don't* want - you should be building a system from the ground
>up to support the kind of B&D environment you want.
I agree, but I wouldn't agree if I thought you were saying it's useless
to define exactly what it is we're talking about before deciding on
what needs hw/os/gil/intepreter/convention level support, and how python
would make use of such a capability, however implemented.

Paul summarised three levels, of which at least fixing unintentional
name-mangling collisions could be solved, IWT.

>
>Of course, you do realize that in practice you can *never* get what
>you want. It assumes that the infrastructure is all bug-free, which
>may not be the case.
Yeah, but IRL how close to *never* do you in practice demand
to bet your life on it? ;-)

>
>For example, I once had a system that took a kernel panic trying to
>boot an OS upgrade. It had been running the previous versionn of the
>OS for most of a year with no problems. Other basically identical
>systems ran the upgraded OS just fine. I finally wound up stepping
>through the code one instruction at a time, to find that the
>subroutine invocation instruction on this machine was setting a bit in
>a register that it wasn't supposed to touch, but only in kernel
>mode. An internal OS API change meant it only showed up in the
>upgraded OS.
>
>The infamous Pentium floating point bug shows that this case isn't
>restricted to failing hardware.
>
Was that software? I've forgotten the details and am too lazy to google ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rune.strand at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 18:05:38 2005
From: rune.strand at gmail.com (Rune Strand)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 15:05:38 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1h4ce9x.v65tbpm7xivfN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1945.1129109694.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ce9x.v65tbpm7xivfN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1129154738.455062.140750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Ok, Alex. I know a good explanation when I see one. Thanks!



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Fri Oct 14 22:31:33 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:31:33 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>

On 14 Oct 2005 19:01:42 -0700, "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote or
quoted :

>
>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>not monopoly, i don't know what is.

They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are evil, not
because they have a large market share.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Mon Oct 17 11:21:14 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:21:14 -0300
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
In-Reply-To: <divpf3$30m$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <A7F25BFC-3F21-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

Many thanks Steve. This is good information. I think this should work 
fine. I was doing a string.replace in a cleanData() method with the 
following characters but don't know if that would have done it. This 
contains all the control characters that I really know about in normal 
use. ord(c) < 32 sounds like a much better way to go and comprehensive. 
  So I guess instead of string.replace, I should do a    ...  for char 
in ...    and check evaluate each character, correct? - or is there a 
better way of eliminating these other that reading a string in 
character by character.

'\a','\b','\e','\f','\n','\r','\t','\v','|'

Regards,
David


On Monday, October 17, 2005, at 06:04 AM, Steve Holden wrote:

> David Pratt wrote:
>> I am working with a text format that advises to strip any ascii 
>> control
>> characters (0 - 30) as part of parsing data and also the ascii pipe
>> character (124) from the data. I think many of these characters are
>> from a different time. Since I have never seen most of these 
>> characters
>> in text I am not sure how these first 30 control characters are all
>> represented (other than say tab (\t), newline(\n), line return(\r) ) 
>> so
>> what should I do to remove these characters if they are ever
>> encountered. Many thanks.
>
> You will find the ord() function useful: control characters all have
> ord(c) < 32.
>
> You can also use the chr() function to return a character whose ord() 
> is
> a specific value, and you can use hex escapes to include arbitrary
> control characters in string literals:
>
>    myString = "\x00\x01\x02"
>
> regards
>   Steve
> -- 
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Oct 26 15:26:39 2005
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 12:26:39 -0700
Subject: replace words
References: <1130310159.632687.295020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130354799.182900.268070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


hagai26 at gmail.com wrote:
> What is the way for replacing in a string from . to . the sentence?
> for example:
> "been .taken.  it may be .left. there,
> even if the .live coals were not. cleared"
> I want to do this-> replace(\.(.*)\.,\.start (1) end\.)
> result:
> "been .start taken end.  it may be .start left end. there,
> even if the .start live coals were not end. cleared"

Here is a pyparsing version. Yes, it is more verbose, and, being pure
Python, is not as fast as regexp.  But the syntax is very easy to
follow and maintain, and the parse actions can add quite a bit of
additional logic during the parsing process (for example, rejecting dot
pairs that span line breaks).

-- Paul


from pyparsing import Literal,SkipTo

data = """been .taken.  it may be .left. there,
even if the .live coals were not. cleared"""

DOT = Literal(".")

# expression to match, comparable to regexp r"\.(.*?)\."
dottedText = DOT + SkipTo(DOT).setResultsName("body") + DOT

# action to run when match is found - return modified text
def enhanceDots( st, loc, tokens):
    return ".start " + tokens.body + " end."
dottedText.setParseAction( enhanceDots )

# transform the string
print dottedText.transformString( data )


Gives:
been .start taken end.  it may be .start left end. there,
even if the .start live coals were not end. cleared



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 21:17:46 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:17:46 -0700
Subject: is there any Python code for spatial tessellation?
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510080440x5ae758eard7ccfbd829f88264@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510080440x5ae758eard7ccfbd829f88264@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d987df30510091817i3852ea41v1b0b592bf2551c3c@mail.gmail.com>

is there any course website about teaching python?
for instance, some computer science courses website?

On 10/8/05, Shi Mu <samrobertsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> is there any Python code for spatial tessellation?
> thanks a lot!


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 29 18:29:52 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:29:52 -0400
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86d5lpdwg3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130608862.858527.124330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86r7a4c5y7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"chris.atlee at gmail.com" <chris.atlee at gmail.com> writes:

> Mike Meyer wrote:
> [snip]
>>    for name, value in kwargs.items():
>>        if name in ('a', 'list', 'of', 'valid', 'keywords'):
>>           exec "%s = %s" % (name, value)
>>        else:
>>           raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword " + name
>>
>> Others will probably tell you that you really shouldn't be using exec.
>
> What about using setattr?
>
>     for name, value in kwargs.items():
>         if name in ('a', 'list', 'of', 'valid', 'keywords'):
>            setattr(self, name, value)
>         else:
>            raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword " + name

You clipped my description of what's wrong with setattr: it doesn't
bind the names in the local namespace, it binds them to an
object. This may be acceptable, but wasn't what the OP asked for.

> I'd probably turn the list of valid keywords into another dictionary to
> make it easy to specify default values for all the parameters as well.

If you're going to do that, why not just specify them explicitly in
the function definition instead of using **kwargs? That takes care of
everything - binding, checking, and providing a default value - in one
swoop.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 15:24:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:24:31 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Ilb2f.18523$bb3.758915@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:14:32 GMT, Roel Schroeven
<rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote or quoted :

>His reply wasn't exactly clear, but I that he means that wen you use HTM
>mail, you don't have to attach the photo with the email. You can also
>use the HTML to refer to an image somewhere on a webserver.
 There is that and also the use of HTML formatting, embedded images,
captioning, rows, borders to make the message look more like a page
from a photo album.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 01:33:37 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 22:33:37 -0700
Subject: Importing at runtime
References: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130217675.420469.155930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130218417.383625.110660@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Devan, would ...

__import__(name) for name in module_names

have worked just as well - without the equate to modules?  or is the
modules list required as a hook for the imports ?



From http  Mon Oct 10 19:54:49 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:54:49 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk6glhvgl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.22.53.07.40262@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7x1x2t6i7q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> writes:
> > No. It's vulnerable to dictionary search.  Use SRP if you can.
> Where can I learn more about this?

http://srp.stanford.edu as already mentioned.  Also, RFC 2945
describes an older version (still ok).


From rajarshi at presidency.com  Mon Oct  3 18:29:11 2005
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:29:11 -0400
Subject: packaging a python project and associated graphics files
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.03.22.29.10.609593@presidency.com>

Hi, I've been trying to package a python project and I'm a little confused
about how I distribute some PNG's that the program uses as icons.

Using distutils I can set the data_files argument of setup() and get my
data files located in, say, /usr/local/mydata.

However when I write my code, it would seem that I have to hardcode the
above path. But this would mean that while working on the code I would
need to have it 'installed' on my system (or else actually make the above
directory).

This seems a little unwieldy. How do people handle this situation?

Thanks,



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Oct 19 19:54:49 2005
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:54:49 -0400
Subject: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
In-Reply-To: <1129721976.745281.64800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2224.1129656465.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129663697.620665.99040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1129666797.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129675547.108377.246320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129721976.745281.64800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051019235449.GA6572@phenix.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Chris Lasher]

> Thanks for the replies, guys! I had no idea Vim was capable of doing
> some of those things.

One detail which should be more widely known, in my opinion, is the
capability of Vim (if compiled properly) to use Python has an extension
language.  That is, you may add new Vim commands to your liking
(presuming you know how to program), writing them in Python.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 12:00:13 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:00:13 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com><pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.58.39.639129@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dibeqg$hq4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> "Each def or lambda expression that is executed will create a closure if
> the body of the function or any contained function has free variables."
>
> Presumably that means that if there are no free variables, no closure
> is created.

you're quoting selectively; the word "closure" isn't used anywhere
in the design document except for a section that talks about "flat
closures", which is an implementation approach used in CPython
(as the sentence before the one you quoted explains).

I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to treat a reference to an
algorithm and an attribute on an object in a specific implementation
as the definition of an computer term...

</F>





From david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct  4 05:10:18 2005
From: david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de (David Murmann)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:10:18 +0200
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1420.1128413993.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1418.1128406275.509.python-list@python.org>	<3qer81FeldcmU1@news.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.1420.1128413993.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3qev4iFash6dU1@news.dfncis.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> David Murmann wrote:
> 
>> I ran into the same problem some time ago and even wanted to post here
>> about it, but found out that it had been reported as a bug three times
>> at sourceforge (if i remember correctly). The comments there explained
>> it of course, but I still think that this behavior is somehow "wrong".
>>
>> I like to think of the import statement as a way to provide the names
>> defined in a module to the current namespace, so there is no "this gets
>> evaluated twice".
> 
> are you sure you understand the problem?  import does exactly what you
> say; it creates a module object and populates it by running the code in the
> module.
maybe i don't... but i'm not convinced yet, see below.

> the problem is that when you hand Python a chunk of code (a script), it
> doesn't necessarily know where it came from.  and even if you know the
> filename it came from, there's no way to know if that chunk actually corre-
> sponds to a module somewhere out there (the import system can map a
> module name to a file, but it cannot map a file to a module name).
well, in my opinion python is not trying hard enough. to me it is
immediately obvious that the main module gets evaluated twice and
i am rather sure that one could introduce some magic of the kind
"oh, i reevaluate the main script here, the module does not get filled
the usual way but uses the existing objects instead". this would have
to happen on a very low level (when the file i just read from is known)
but i think it would be possible. whether the effort to do so is worth
it, is a different question...

>> Now i wonder how difficult it would be to "correct" the behavior?
> 
> there's no way to "fix" it without introducing a huge number of inconsistencies.
> 
>> And would such a change break any code?
> 
> any code that uses the "if __name__ == "__main__" pydiom, for a start.
i wouldn't lose that, the main module should still be named "__main__",
it should just get more names (somehow) :)
i see, it's difficult at the moment

hoping i'm not completely wrong here, David.


From timr at probo.com  Fri Oct 21 02:16:06 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:16:06 GMT
Subject: Accessing a dll from Python
References: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <go1hl1pcpi463gqcp6ulldfu075fp2njv2@4ax.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Can someone give me lights on how can I deal with dlls from python?
>
>My main purpose is to get access to a Unitech PT600 Bar Code system. I
>have the dll that works fine through Visual Basic. But I'm migrating to
>Python, so I need a way to use the same dll, or a C library.
>
>I tried to access a dll created by myself on Visual Basic. The dll just
>have one function. It works perfect when using it on a VB project just
>including it in the references configuration. But I can't access it
>from python. I tried the ctypes module.

Are you talking about VB6 or VB.NET?  If you had to add a reference, then
it is either a COM interface or a managed code class.  DLLs don't get in
through references -- they use the Declare statement.

COM interfaces are pretty easy to call in Python.  Calling managed code is
almost impossible right now.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 23 08:26:48 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:26:48 -0400
Subject: Listening for keypress in the background
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2408.1129991048.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <m2zmp1u6l1.fsf@gmail.com> <j9KdnW2xM51nrMfeRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.2408.1129991048.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Npadna8A6fryHMbeRVn-pg@powergate.ca>

Mathias Dahl wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>>How can I make it listen for a certain keypress (say, Windows-key +
>>>space) in a controlled fashion even when it is not the program having
>>>focus?
>>>
>>>I need to do this running under GNOME in Mandrake GN/Linux 10.
>>
>>Search Google for "python keylogger".
> 
> Thanks, good idea! The relevant pages I found only link to
> Windows-specific keyloggers though.

Oops, you're quite right.  Sorry!  I didn't even read the second 
sentence in your post.  Stupid me...

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 04:35:33 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:35:33 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Christian Stapfer <nil at dev.nul> wrote:

>  This is why we would like to have a way of (roughly)
> estimating the reasonableness of the outlines of a
> program's design in "armchair fashion" - i.e. without
> having to write any code and/or test harness.

And we would also like to consume vast amounts of chocolate, while
similarly reclining in comfortable armchairs, without getting all fat
and flabby.  Unfortunately, what we would like and what reality affords
are often pretty uncorrelated.  No matter how much theoreticians may
love big-O because it's (relatively) easy to compute, it still has two
failings which are often sufficient to rule out its sufficiency for any
"estimate [of] the reasonableness" of anything: [a] as we operate on
finite machines with finite wordsize, we may never be able reach
anywhere even remotely close to the "asymptotic" region where big-O has
some relationship to reality; [b] in many important cases, the
theoretical worst-case is almost impossible to characterize and hardly
ever reached in real life, so big-O is of no earthly use (and much
harder to compute measures such as big-Theta should be used for just
about any practical purpose).

Consider, for example, point [b].  Quicksort's big-O is N squared,
suggesting that quicksort's no better than bubblesort or the like.  But
such a characterization is absurd.  A very naive Quicksort, picking its
pivot very systematically (e.g., always the first item), may hit its
worst case just as systematically and in cases of practical importance
(e.g., already-sorted data); but it takes just a little extra care (in
the pivot picking and a few side issues) to make the worst-case
occurrences into ones that will not occur in practice except when the
input data has been deliberately designed to damage by a clever and
determined adversary.

Designing based on worst-case occurrences hardly ever makes sense in any
field of engineering, and blind adherence to worst-case assessments can
be an unmitigated disaster, promoting inferior technology just because,
in the WORST imaginable case, the best available technology would fare
no better than the inferior one (even though in 99.99999% of cases the
best technology would perform better, if you're designing based on
worst-case analyses you may not even NOTICE that -- and NEVER, *NEVER*
forget that big-O is nothing BUT "extreme-worst-case" analysis!).  Why
bother using prestressed concrete, when, should a large asteroid score a
direct hit, the costly concrete will stand up no better than cheap
bricks, or, for that matter, slightly-damp straw?  Why bother doing
(e.g.) random pivot selection in quicksort, when its big-O (i.e.,
worst-case) behavior will remain N-squared, just like naive quicksort,
or, for that matter, bubblesort?


Alex


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 31 20:26:34 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:26:34 -0600
Subject: Tkinter problem
In-Reply-To: <1130800625.796277.222980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130761580.552145.167340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2735.1130769768.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130800625.796277.222980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051101012633.GA7132@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 31, 2005 at 03:17:05PM -0800, dale cooper wrote:
> Thanks, but I've got another question:
> 
> can't find Tcl configuration script "tclConfig.sh"

This file comes from the following package:
$ rpm -qf /usr/lib*/tclConfig.sh 
tcl-devel-8.4.9-3

Fedora generally splits packages which are libraries into "foo" and "foo-devel"
(and maybe others).

Jeff
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From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 10:05:38 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 07:05:38 -0700
Subject: ANN: SPE 0.7.5.d released!
Message-ID: <1130421938.507881.207330@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I'm currently packaging the new SPE. The release is a matter of
minutes. Next releases (0.8.*) will focus on the Mac in honour of the
fund raising for the purchase of a Mac. Read more on the homepage.

New features:

    * UML export to bitmap (bmp, gif, jpg, pcx, png, pnm, tif, xbm,
xpm), to vector drawing (eps) or to printer (pdf).
    * Dialog box for passing arguments and options to debugger.
    * Unicode support (specify encoding in source file)



You can read more on the SPE news blog.

It would be nice if some (experienced) Mac users would subscribe to the
developers mailing list to speed up the Mac port for SPE. I expect my
new Mac any moment.

Stani
--
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 10 14:21:18 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:21:18 -0700
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list at python.org>,
 "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

> Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> > | > Except it is interpreted.
> > |
> > | except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte code, which
> > | is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a module is 
> > | up
> > | to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.
> >
> > Fair to say that byte code is interpreted?  Seems to require an
> > application we commonly call an interpreter.
> 
> well, the bytecode isn't Python (the transformation isn't exactly straight-
> forward, as we've seen in other posts I've made today).
> 
> and even if the bytecode engine used in CPython can be viewed as an inter-
> preter, does that make Python an interpreted language?  what about Python
> code that uses a runtime that converts it to machine code?  (e.g. Psycho, 
> Iron-
> Python).  is it still an interpreter if it generates machine code?

Is what an interpreter?

I am not very well acquainted with these technologies, but it sounds
like variations on the implementation of an interpreter, with no
really compelling distinction between them.  When a program is deployed
as instructions in some form other than native code executable, and
therefore those instructions need to be evaluated by something other
than the hardware, then that would be some kind of interpretation.
I agree that there are many shades of grey here, but there's also a
real black that's sharply distinct and easy to find -- real native
code binaries are not interpreted.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Thu Oct 13 16:05:06 2005
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:05:06 +0200
Subject: extract PDF pages
References: <cEx3f.24108$wm3.2383@trnddc01>
Message-ID: <434EBDF2.B7ACD69B@netsurf.de>

Aloha,

David Isaac wrote:
> I am looking for a Python solution.
> Just for PDF page extraction.
> Any hope?

With python, there's always hope.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfplayground

In the CVS (sorry no distribution at the time) you'll find
an example page-extract.
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/pdfplayground/ppg/Exp/page-extract.py?rev=1.1&view=markup

pdfplayground is limited at the moment to PDF <= 1.4.
If you want to do more with .pdfs you'll probably need at least
a basic understanding of the PDF specification. pdfplayground
is focused at low-level .pdf (by implementation resources...).

Thomas Lotze is also preparing a pdf reader/writer project:
http://svn.thomas-lotze.de/PDFSpec/

So is David Boddie:
http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/Projects/Python/pdftools

Wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From iainking at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 06:21:13 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 03:21:13 -0700
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
Message-ID: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have some code that converts html into xhtml.  For example, convert
all <i> tags into <em>.  Right now I need to do to string.replace calls
for every tag:

html = html.replace('<i>','<em>')
html = html.replace('</i>','</em>')

I can change this to a single call to re.sub:

html = re.sub('<([/]*)i>', r'<\1em>', html)

Would this be a quicker/better way of doing it?

Iain



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 14:59:35 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:59:35 -0400
Subject: xml.dom.minidom - parseString - How to avoid ExpatError?
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I was hoping some XML expert could help me make this code work. Below is
sample code with sample XML similar to what I'm dealing with.

How can I make the weird characters in the XML not break the parser? I'll do
anything to make this work!

(Note: the &nbsp; broke my parser yesterday but doesn't seem to in this
sample code) But really I'm looking for solutions that will handles lots
of unusual characters.

Much thanks,

Greg


<code>
from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
data="""
<blog>
<post>
This is sample problem text. &nbsp; ?500.00
</post>
</blog>
"""
myDOM=parseString(data)
</code>

<error>
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 307, in RunScript
debugger.run(codeObject, __main__.__dict__, start_stepping=0)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\__init__.py",
line 60, in run
_GetCurrentDebugger().run(cmd, globals,locals, start_stepping)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 631, in run
exec cmd in globals, locals
File "C:\Documents and Settings\Gregory\My Documents\Python\xml
help\xmlproc.py", line 9, in ?
myDOM=parseString(data)
File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 1929, in parseString
return expatbuilder.parseString(string)
File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 940, in parseString
return builder.parseString(string)
File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 223, in parseString
parser.Parse(string, True)
ExpatError: undefined entity: line 4, column 29
</error>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From programmer.py at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 14:21:24 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:21:24 -0500
Subject: Raw string fu
In-Reply-To: <1130350167.20384.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1130350167.20384.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510261121v2d553e5h595c5565541e83eb@mail.gmail.com>

This URL has a good section on raw strings.

http://www.ferg.org/projects/python_gotchas.html

r'\' is wrong because raw strings were originally added to make
regular expressions easier to write.  And you can't have a regexp that
ends with \.

Also, you can use the \ to escape your original quote character.

>>> r'I can\'t end strings with a \''
"I can\\'t end strings with a \\'"

hth
jw

On 10/26/05, Joshua Ginsberg <listspam at flowtheory.net> wrote:
> >>> r'\'
> File "<stdin>", line 1
> r'\'
> ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
> >>> r'\\'
> '\\\\'
>
> Does that seem wrong to anybody else? Shouldn't the first one be
> syntactically correct?
>
> -jag
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From dudufigueiredo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 11:33:10 2005
From: dudufigueiredo at gmail.com (dudufigueiredo at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 08:33:10 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
Message-ID: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have one folder containing mp3 files, the folder is:
C:\My Shared Folder\Rubber Soul

And the files are:
01 drive my car.mp3
02 norwegian wood.mp3
03 you won't see me.mp3
04 nowhere man.mp3
.
.
.

I'm trying to rename files to:
The Beatles - Drive My Car.mp3
The Beatles - Norwegian Wood.mp3
The Beatles - You Won't See Me.mp3
The Beatles - Nowhere Man.mp3
.
.
.

So I need to change the file number to "The Beatles -" and Capitalize
the name.
I was trying to create a function and using glob and rename, but i had
no sucsses...
Could somebody help me please,
Since now, thanks...



From waldgbfinn at sds.de  Mon Oct 17 11:21:41 2005
From: waldgbfinn at sds.de (Finn Waldrip)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:21:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20051017152141.80D211E4069@bag.python.org>

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<TITLE>404 Not Found</TITLE>
</HEAD><BODY>
<H1>Not Found</H1>
The requested URL was not found on this server.<P>
<HR>
<ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.31</ADDRESS>
</BODY></HTML>




From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct 14 06:42:00 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:42:00 +0200
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xll0wofw8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3r83a5Fi1rt6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xfyr5qdxh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2049.1129264278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xll0wofw8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3r9gbpFic3e9U1@uni-berlin.de>

> Yeah, I noticed that, I could have been pedantic about it but chose to
> just describe how these language implementations work in the real
> world with zero exceptions that I know of.  I guess I should have
> spelled it out.

You talked about CPU architectures:

"""
 >And this presumes an architecture which byte-addresses and only
 >> uses "aligned" addresses.


Yes, that would describe just about every cpu for the past 30 years
that's a plausible Python target.
"""

And regarding the "zero exceptions" - I know for sure that quite a few 
programs were crashing when the transition in 68K from 24 bit addresses 
to real 32 bit was done on popular systems like the ATARI ST - as some 
smart-asses back then used the MSByte for additional parameter space.

I can't say though if that was only in assembler writen code - quite 
popular back then even for larger apps - or a compiler optimization. I 
do presume the former.


Diez


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct  8 19:41:07 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 23:41:07 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
Message-ID: <Xns96E9BE10C8F6Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> 
>> But trying to keep your email world into a pure text-based
>> no-formatting-whatsoever world, that's a fantasy bubble that is bound to
>> burst, sooner rather than later.
> 
> Not here.  I've configured my email server to reject HTML emails
> before I even see them, and more often tham not I'll delete any
> others that sneak through the gate.

Good for you. If I do that, I lose some customers. Your private war is a 
joke, and one day you'll wake up. What a waste of energy.

> If people want me to read their email, they should send it to me
> in an open, universal format, which for email is plain text.  It's
> as simple as that.

Is Unicode allowed, or is 7 bit ASCII the only right way?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 20:19:39 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 00:19:39 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

joe at invalid.address wrote:

> John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> 
>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
>> > news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
>> > 
>> >> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
>> >> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
>> >> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
>> > 
>> >     It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
>> >     applications that work in any browser on any OS threaten
>> >     to make it irrelevent what OS you're running.
>> 
>> And it's even easier to understand that your statement is nonsense.
>> 
>> It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the
>> Linux kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same results.
>> Yet people seem to prefer one distribution over one other.
> 
> He was talking about the browser war, and gave a pretty good reason
> why it was important. So you respond by pointing out that people
> choose a linux distribution for personal (non-technical,
> non-marketing) reasons. I think I missed the connection.

web based applications that work with any browser make OS irrelevant ->
not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter which Linux 
distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet people seem to make a 
point of which distribution they use.

>> > MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important
>> > to be running on one of their OSes.
>> 
>> Maybe *they* do have a point :-).
> 
> Which is?

That it *does* matter. It doesn't matter which brand makes your graphics 
card, since most stick close to the reference design of the GPU chip 
supplier, yet people take the brand in consideration when they buy.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From cfbolz at gmx.de  Sat Oct  8 10:59:47 2005
From: cfbolz at gmx.de (cfbolz)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 07:59:47 -0700
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1128762184.908604.267760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128783587.402068.54400@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Kay Schluehr wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> > try it (and read the Timbot's article included in Python's sources, and the
> > sources themselves)...
>
> Just a reading advise. The translated PyPy source
> pypy/objectspace/listsort.py might be more accessible than the
> corresponding C code.

indeed. it is at

http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/dist/pypy/objspace/std/listsort.py

Cheers,

Carl Friedrich Bolz



From http  Mon Oct 17 14:21:13 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:21:13 -0700
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.4a1 released
References: <LgP4f.7793$lN2.1203@fe04.lga>
Message-ID: <7xvezwovhi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> writes:
> - Support for all frequently-used Emacs commands, including cursor and 
> screen movement, basic character, word and paragraph manipulation, and 
> commands to manipulate buffers, the kill ring, regions and rectangles.

Do you support re-search-backward (i.e. search backward for a regexp)?
How do you do it?


From Zack.Payton at MWAA.com  Thu Oct  6 15:14:18 2005
From: Zack.Payton at MWAA.com (Payton, Zack)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:14:18 -0400
Subject: Build spoofed IP packets
Message-ID: <181B2DB68DB22546BD99173AB9D841DA0838A4@cfsrv017.mwaa.com>

See scapy.py
I've completed windows support at this time and am currently testing it,
working out some bugs.
If you want a copy just ask.  I need some testers.
It can do almost any packet transmissions you want. (google it)
Z


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 12 19:31:34 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:31:34 -0400
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <1129129852.92dc41cf1bd445c448e00bd42ec59500@teranews>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<wzzmpf80cj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<1129129852.92dc41cf1bd445c448e00bd42ec59500@teranews>
Message-ID: <4rmdnW7aD-pYAdDenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@powergate.ca>

Dave Hansen wrote:
> So lose the "if."
> 
>    R = C then A else B

It would be nice (in my opinion) if this were the way it was going to 
be.  Having one of the two results come first makes that result seem 
somehow of primary importance, while the conditional (which in my mind 
is far more important than either result) comes hidden in the middle:

"C then A else B"   makes the conditional stand out

"A if C else B"     suggests that A is more important than B and hides C

But I can live with whichever it is... not that I have any choice. :)

-Peter


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 26 06:35:49 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:35:49 GMT
Subject: a Haskell a Day
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3vmul1hli2t3cuquab99fnlg2g9abqkj3o@4ax.com>

On 26 Oct 2005 00:38:23 -0700, "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>A Haskell A Day: Manifesto
This is the wrong newsgroup. Had you done the same for Java,
comp.lang.java.help would be the place to post it.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 12 07:07:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:07:18 +0200
Subject: Need a spider library
References: <434CE752.8030509@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <diiqp6$ikq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

> The question: is there a good library for Python for extraction links and images
> out  of (possibly malformed) HTML soucre code?

http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/

</F> 





From xah at xahlee.org  Mon Oct 10 05:51:37 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 02:51:37 -0700
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
Message-ID: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Sort a List

Xah Lee, 200510

In this page, we show how to sort a list in Python & Perl and also
discuss some math of sort.

To sort a list in Python, use the ?sort? method. For example:

li=[1,9,2,3];
li.sort();
print li;


Note that sort is a method, and the list is changed in place.

Suppose you have a matrix, and you want to sort by second column.
Example Solution:

li=[[2,6],[1,3],[5,4]]
li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))
print li; # prints [[1, 3], [5, 4], [2, 6]]


The line ?li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))? can also be written
as ?li.sort(cmp=lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))?

The argument to sort is a function of two arguments, that returns -1,
0, 1. This function is a decision function that tells sort() how to
decide the order of any two elements in your list. If the first
argument is ?less? then second argument, the function should return
-1. If equal, then 0. Else, 1.

Here's a more complex example. Suppose you have a list of strings.

'my283.jpg'
'my23i.jpg'
'web7-s.jpg'
'fris88large.jpg'
...


You want to sort them by the number embedded in them. What you have to
do, is to provide sort() method a function, that takes two strings, and
compares the integer inside the string. Here's the solution:

li=[
'my283.jpg',
'my23i.jpg',
'web7-s.jpg',
'fris88large.jpg',
]

def myComp (x,y):
    import re
    def getNum(str): return float(re.findall(r'\d+',str)[0])
    return cmp(getNum(x),getNum(y))

li.sort(myComp)
print li # returns ['web7-s.jpg', 'my23i.jpg', 'fris88large.jpg',
'my283.jpg']


Here, we defined a function myComp to tell sort about the ordering.
Normally, one would use the ?lambda? construct, but Python's lambda
construct can only represent the simplest functions.

Some Math about Sorting

In general, the function f used to determine the order of any two
element must satisfy some constraints:

? f(a,a)==0
? if f(a,b)==0 then f(b,a)==0
? if f(a,b)==0 and f(b,c)==0, then f(a,c)==0.
? if f(a,b)==-1 and f(b,c)==-1, then f(a,c)==-1.
? if f(a,b)==-1, then f(b,a)==1.


If the comparison function does not behave as the above, then it is not
consistent, meaning that the result ?ordered? list is may actually
be different depending how the language happens to implement sort.

The significance of all these is that in real software you may want to
sort a list of non-simple entities by a specialized ordering. For
example, you may want to sort a list of polygonal surfaces in 3D space,
for particular reasons in implementing some computer graphics features.
Say, you want to sort these polygons by their spacial orientations. It
is in advanced cases like these, understanding the basic math about
ordering is important. Otherwise, you might have a bewildering result
yet unable to locate any flaws in your code.

Python's ?sort? method's optional parameters: ?key? and
?reverse?

Most of the time, sorting is done for a list of atomic element such as
[3,2,4]. This is simply done by myList.sort() without any argument.
Other than simple list, sort is frequently used on matrixes (e.g.
[[2,6],[1,3],[5,4]]). For matrixes, almost always a particular column
is used for the basis of ordering. For example, if we want to sort by
second column, we do: ?li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))?. Since
this is frequently used, Python provides a somewhat shorter syntax for
it, by specifying the column used as the ordering ?key?. For
example:

li=[[2,6],[1,3],[5,4]]
li.sort(key=lambda x:x[1] ) # is equivalent to the following
#li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))
print li; # prints [[1, 3], [5, 4], [2, 6]]


Because Python's implementation is not very refined , this specialized
syntax is actually much speedier than the general form ?lambda x, y:
cmp(x[1],y[1])?. It is a burden on the programer to always use the
?key? syntax idiosyncrasy if he is sorting a large matrix.

Another idiosyncratic provision is the optional ?reverse? argument.
This parameter is somewhat necessary when using the ?key?
parameter. One can reverse the ordering by using the ?reverse?
keyword as a argument to sort. Example:

The following are equivalent:

li.sort(key=lambda x:x[1], reverse=True )
li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]), reverse=True)
li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1],x[1]))


The official doc on Python's sort method is at (bottom):
http://python.org/doc/2.4/lib/typesseq-mutable.html

Sorting in Perl

(to be posted in a couple of days)

This post is archived at:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sat Oct 29 18:15:56 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:15:56 -0500
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...

> In today's implementations of Classic Python, yes.  In other equally
> valid implementations of the language, such as Jython, IronPython, or,
> for all we know, some future implementation of Classic, that may well
> not be the case.  Many, quite reasonably, dislike relying on a specific
> implementation's peculiarities, and prefer to write code that relies
> only on what the _language_ specs guarantee.

How could I identify when Python code does not close files and depends on 
the runtime to take care of this?  I want to know that the code will work 
well under other Python implementations and future implementations which may 
not have this provided. 




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 28 15:00:42 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:00:42 +0100
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djtsgr$bam$1@sea.gmane.org>

KraftDiner wrote:
> I have two lists.
> I want to sort by a value in the first list and have the second list
> sorted as well... Any suggestions on how I should/could do this?
> 
 >>> first = [1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 2, 4, 6, 8]
 >>> second = ['one', 'three', 'five', 'seven', 'nine', 'two', 'four', 
'six', 'eight']
 >>> both = zip(first, second)
 >>> both.sort()
 >>> [b[0] for b in both]
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
 >>> [b[1] for b in both]
['one', 'two', 'three', 'four', 'five', 'six', 'seven', 'eight', 'nine']
 >>>

You mean like this?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From rrr at ronadam.com  Fri Oct  7 13:07:10 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:07:10 GMT
Subject: Why do I get an import error on this?
In-Reply-To: <1128703953.497560.47620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128703953.497560.47620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2Xx1f.175528$p_1.71669@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Steve wrote:
> I'm trying to run a Python program on Unix and I'm encountering some
> behavior I don't understand.  I'm a Unix newbie, and I'm wondering if
> someone can help.
> 
> I have a simple program:
> ____________________________________________
> 
> #! /home/fergs/python/bin/python
> import sys, os
> import cx_Oracle
> ____________________________________________
> 
> If I run it through the Python interpreter, this way:
> 
>  >> python test.py
> 
> it runs fine.
> 
> But if I try to run it as an executable script, this way:
> 
>  >> test.py
> 
> I get an import error that says it can't find cx_Oracle.
> 
> Why does it behave differently when I run it in these two ways, and
> what do I need to do to make it run successfully either way?

I ran across something similar with using py2exe.  I think it occurs 
when there are more than one file with the same name in different 
locations in the search path.  Try renaming cx_Oracle to _cx_Oracle then 
import as...

import _cx_Oracle as cx_Oracle

Of course your problem might be entirely different. But this might help.

Cheers,
Ron







From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 03:58:15 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 00:58:15 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202238570.13901@urchin.earth.li>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202238570.13901@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1129881495.952342.268590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Tom Anderson:
>> I have no idea what Scheme is, but I'll cettainly look it up as soon as
>> I'm done writing this.

> You won't like it. Give yourself another 5-10 years, and you might start
> to find it strangely intriguing. 

+1 ;-)


      Michele Simionato



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 18 09:32:15 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:32:15 +1000
Subject: Hygenic Macros
References: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.18.13.32.15.720512@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:23:43 -0700, David Pokorny wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
> good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
> multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
> multiplication). In Python, I have to type
> 
> import Numeric
> matrixmultiply(A,B)
> 
> which makes my code almost unreadable.

Yes, I see what you mean, it is pretty confusing. It almost looks like
a function that multiplies two matrices and returns the result. 

Have you tried coming up with better names for your arguments than A and
B? Many people find that using self-documenting variable names helps make
code easier to understand.


-- 
Steven.



From deets at web.de  Fri Oct  7 10:06:44 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:06:44 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndkctk3.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qmrd2Ffocu8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkcko1.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1128686332.212150.275360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkctk3.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1128694004.950502.123170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


> > You just said "let's
> > introduce something like any". I showed you existing implementations of
> > such a concept that have problems.
>
> But as far as I can see that is a problem of the implementation
> not necessarily of the concept.

Without any concept, sure there can't be problems with that concept.

> > You say "thats not what _I_ have in
> > mind, so your criticism doesn't apply." Guess what, I can't read your
> > mind. But you did not tell me in what your idea is different from
> > existing concepts.
>
> Indeed you can't read my mind, but what pops up in your mind shows
> your preconceptions. You could have just answered the question
> as it was posed, instead of filling in the details yourself, maybe
> remarking that you didn't see how it would work with current
> type systems you know off.

How can one answer a question without what he knows? Sure I fill in the
context. If I wouldn't know that this whole NG is about python, I
wouldn't know how to answer most of the questions that arise here.
Which is a general thing about communication.

But I certainly have had more contact with type systems than you had -
so my "filling-out" was by no means unreasonable - as you imply.
Without further details, one can only guess. And debuking guesswork by
saying "but _that_ wasn't what I meant" as you permanently do is easy -
but doesn't make _your_ point valid.

> Sure I'm reluctant to give details. I consider this a hostile
> environment, for this kind of proposals. I'm sure people will
> be able to come up with all kind of problems my idea won't solve
> and will see this as a reason to think the idea is useless.

Why hostile? Because people will possibly destroy your wishful thinking
by providing counter examples - if they exist? I doubt that a serious
proposal would get suppressed here - as the static compilers that have
shown up recently prove, as they have been greeted and met with
reasonable criticism where it was in order.

You didn't come up with an Idea so far, as I'm concerned. Just some
random thoughts.

But then again, here we go:

> The main idea is that type information would be available at two places.
>
> 1) The names, which carry the declared type.

 JAVA.

> 2) The objects which carry the type/class they belong too.

That already is the case.

> When an object is bound to a name, a check is made that the type of the
> object is compatible with the declared type of the name.

JAVA exactly does that.

> A name with type ANY, would be just like any python variable or
> instance now. Python could implement this by instead of storing its
> variables in dictionaries as (name, value) tuples, by storing them
> as (name, declaration, value) tuples and making the necesarry checks
> at (re)bind time. Variables that are not declared would get the
> ANY declaration so that current scripts would just remain working
> as they do now.

So far, this is exactly what java does - plus a more dynamic approach
to method/function invocation on ANY. So it seems my assumptions about
what you had in mind weren't so false after all, eh?

>But as the compiler got more sophisticated some
> of these checks might be doable at compile time instead of at
> run time.

Well, that exactly is the point where we make the transition from "this
is how things work" to pure speculation. Can't say that there won't be
a solution someday - but certainly it requires much more, and from
above nobody can say that this would solve _any_ problem.

What you propose above is what JAVA does - plus more dynamicity. Well,
given that even the  "non-dynamic, everything has to be annotated" JAVA
fails to deal with ANY (called Object there), I can't see how a more
dynamic environment will do _better_ in that respect. So unless you lay
out some more detailed ideas how that works, this surely won't do much
if any better than JAVA does today - and JAVA sucks _precisely_ because
of the half-static-half-dynamic nature. It gives you both troubles -
runtime errors like in python, together with compile-time limitations.

Let's face it: you don't know much about type-systems. I do know a bit
more - but don't claim to possess the holy grail. And I don't say that
more powerful analyzing isn't possible. However, all you do so far is
fantasizing and "fail to see why not". Well, that failure might be
because of limited sight on your side - not necessarily on our, which
you constantly claim.

Visions are a nice thing - but actually, in the scientific domain not
so much a vision, but proofs are what is needed. And if you consider it
hostile that nobody buys your ideas because so far they aren't more
than marketing/whishful thinking, I'm sorry that I can't help you.

Diez



From hagai26 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 12:08:57 2005
From: hagai26 at gmail.com (hagai26 at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 09:08:57 -0700
Subject: reading hebrew text file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2165.1129559661.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129558279.759330.199890@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2165.1129559661.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129651737.140776.224470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

realy thanks

hagai



From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 01:30:15 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 22:30:15 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
	<1130647542.669549.300360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130650215.537552.231990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Don't know about this particular case but sometimes, I don't want to
have a default argument value. That is, argument not there is different
from argument = None. Though in general, I prefer the None as special
meaning coding style. But even python's builtin function prefers to
distinguish between "not there" and None.

Alex Martelli wrote:
> lbolognini at gmail.com <lbolognini at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > def foo(**kwargs):
> >     expected_form1_kwargs = ["arg1", "arg2"]
> >
> >     for name in expected_form1_kwargs:
> >         if name not in kwargs:
> >             kwargs[name]=None
> >
> >     for name in kwargs:
> >         if name in kwargs and name not in expected_form1_kwargs:
> >             raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword: " + name
> >
> >     print kwargs
>
> I find this style of coding repulsive when compared to:
>
> def foo(arg1=None, arg2=None):
>     print dict(arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)
>
> I don't understand what added value all of those extra, contorted lines
> are supposed to bring to the party.
> 
> 
> Alex



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 03:09:29 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:09:29 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1h42zdb.1hqmbvr101wlsoN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<7xk6goh9h8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1h435ek.1glc04n13yp277N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli) writes:
> > ap.py:4: No global (test) found
> > ap.py:5: Local variable (ego1d) not used
> > Helen:/tmp alex$ 
> > 
> > If you're so typo-prone and averse to unittests that you consider this
> > kind of issue to be a serious problem, just use pychecker and get
> > informed about any such typo, just as above.
> 
> That's very helpful, but why isn't it built into Python?

Because some users will prefer to use a different approach to checking,
for example, such as pylint (much more thorough in enforcing coding
rules and checking for all sort of things) or nothing (much faster than
pychecker, which in turn is faster than pylint).  Just as for other
programming tools, such as, say, an editor, I think it's wise to avoid
excessive and premature standardization on one specific tool to the
detriment of others.  (IDLE is "bundled with" Python, but not _built
into_ it -- indeed some would claim that the bundling was too much).

Not all tools need evolve at the same speed as the core language, which
currently follows a wise policy of "major" releases (2.3, 2.4, etc)
about 18 to 24 months apart, and NO feature changes for "point" release
(2.4.2 has exactly the same features as 2.4.1 -- it just fixes more
bugs).  Any tool which gets built into python (or, less strictly but
still problematically, is separate but bundled with it) must get on
exactly the same schedule and policy as Python itself, and that is
definitely not something that's necessarily appropriate.

If you're worried about the end-users which can't be bothered to
download tools (and, for that matter, libraries) separately from the
main language, the solution is "sumo releases" -- Enthought Python (from
Enthought) being an extreme example, but Active Python (from
ActiveState) comes with quite a few bundled add-ons, too.  I believe
that Linux has proven the validity of this general model: having the
"core" (mostly the kernel, in Linux's case; the language and standard
library, in Python's) evolve and get released as its own speed, and
having _distributions_ bundling the core with different set of tools and
add-ons get released on THEIR preferred schedules, independently.


Alex


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 22:46:58 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:46:58 +1000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128733400.812671.304850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.02.46.57.482515@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:03:20 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:

> Continuing with this off-topic thread about british accent and
> movies...
> I've always asked myself why do Hollywood movies about the Roman Empire
> show the Emperors and all the nobles speaking with british accent?
> They were italians for God's sake!

You would rather they speak in an Italian accent?

> Anyway, I can't imagine Julius Caesar speaking like Vito Corleone...

:-)

The BBC adaptation of "I, Claudius" had all the upper-class Romans
speaking in posh English accents (think of Queen Victoria), and the
servants, soldiers, slaves etc speaking in Cockney and other working-class
accents.

This, by the way, is closer to the historical truth than many people
imagine. The Latin we learnt in school was so-called "Classical Latin".
Your average Roman centurion spoke something that was to Classical Latin
as your boyz in the hood speaks to standard American English.

In the recent movie "Alexander the Great", which was nowhere near as bad
as the reputation it got (okay, it wasn't that good, but neither was it
bad), they did a similar thing. The Greeks spoke in very polished
English accents, while the Macedonians (who by their own admission had
been goat herders only to generations before) spoke in broad
Irish/Scottish accents, and the lower class they were, the thicker the
accent.


-- 
Steven.



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 08:17:40 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:17:40 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
References: <mailman.2585.1130323894.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlusr3.evi.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Tim Golden enlightened us with:
> Not quite fair. Not only would I avoid saying something with a
> redundant apostrophe ;) but the Windows user interface, at least for
> my purposes, didn't change such a huge amount between Win9x and
> Win2K,

Hence my reference to windows 3.1.

> It's obvious that everyone has a different way of working, and that
> I'm more comfortable in Windows because all sorts of small
> familiarities

So what I read in your post is that you simply don't want to leave
your familiar environment. Fair enough.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 18:02:28 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 15:02:28 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <7xoe5t6q93.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129235140.938321.134990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfyr56szy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1129239949.955964.241500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xoe5t6q93.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1129240948.015411.248040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Well, I mean, what kind of data is it?  Sports chat?  Personal correspondence?  Financial info like credit card numbers?  Medical records?  Military/diplomatic traffic?  I'm asking how severe the security requirements are.

Important data like diplomatic traffic. Must be accessible from all
Clients inmediatly a client publish his data. Its an online system.

> Why do you want to do that?  All of them get compromised if the one password is compromised.

How is it that all of them get compromised?

> What do you mean by "password"?  If it's not something a user has to remember and type in, then I hope you mean a long random string rather than a password.  I sort of remember your mentioning this though.

With 'password' I meant simply a string to log in.

> so why do you need this password stuff at all?

I don't want to permit anyone to run RPC functions. It's my desire.



From g.horvath at gmx.at  Sun Oct  2 15:00:03 2005
From: g.horvath at gmx.at (Gregor Horvath)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:00:03 +0200
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
In-Reply-To: <1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhpank$2kg$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>

El Pitonero schrieb:
> 
> The fact that you can override Python's "list()" function can be either
> viewed as pro or con. The fact that you can override member variables
> can also be viewed as pro or con.
> 

If there is a tool like pyChecker, which can detect such pitfalls and 
warns but not forbidds - one can avoid the cons and still can use the pros.
The computer should be an assistent not a dominator of humans.

--
Greg


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct  3 07:25:03 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:25:03 +0200
Subject: Problem with slices.
References: <slrndk243e.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dhr4e0$oq0$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> I'm for the moment writing two classes.
> 
> A table, which is like a list, but can start at any integer.
> 
> A tree which is like a dictionary, but will iterate over the
> keys in sorted order.
> 
> The problem is that I would like to implemet slices but, that
> seems to be impossible with how slices are implemented now.
> 
> I wrote the following class to test things out.
> 
> class Tst:
>     def __getitem__(self, key):
>         print key
> 
> then I called the interpreter and got this:
> 
>>>> from tst import Tst
>>>> t=Tst()
>>>> t[:]
> slice(0, 2147483647, None)
>>>> t[:9]
> slice(0, 9, None)
>>>> t[:'ok']
> slice(None, 'ok', None)
>>>> t['ok':]
> slice('ok', None, None)
>>>> t[6:]
> slice(6, 2147483647, None)
>>>> t[1,2]
> (1, 2)
>>>> t[1,2:]
> (1, slice(2, None, None))
>>>> t[(1,2):]
> slice((1, 2), None, None)
> 
> 
> Now suppose tab is a table with indexes from -5 to 12.
> 
> tab[:4]  would have to make a table ranging from -5 to 4
> tab[0:4] would have to make a table ranging from  0 to 4.
> 
> But each time I would be given the same argument, being
> slice(0, 4, None). So I would be unable to distinghuish
> between the two.
> 
> I don't think it very likely but I could have a table
> with indexes from 2147483647 to 2147483700, so having
> 2147483647 as value that indicated till the end of
> the sequence is a bit awkward.
> 
> The same problems occur when I have a tree with integer
> key values. But even if I don't use integers as keys
> I have a problem with what is returned since None is
> a valid key and thus it shouldn't be used this way.
 

Consider new-style classes:

>>> class T(object):
...     def __getitem__(self, key):
...             return key
...
>>> t = T()
>>> t[:4]
slice(None, 4, None)
>>> t[0:4]
slice(0, 4, None)
>>> t[0:]
slice(0, None, None)

Peter


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 17 19:09:58 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:09:58 GMT
Subject: ordered keywords?
In-Reply-To: <kPU4f.18198$ae.11760@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<3ric96Fjni97U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<kPU4f.18198$ae.11760@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <abW4f.156302$xl6.42994@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Ron Adam wrote:

> 
> def lamb(args):
>     for v in args: print v
> 
> def feedlamb():
>     print locals()
>     y = 20
>     lamb( (lambda x=10: (x,y,x+y))() )
>     print locals()
> 
> feedlamb()
> 
> {}
> 10
> 20
> 30
> {'y': 20}
> 
> 
> Cool, this is the exact behavior I was thinking of, but without the 
> lambda if possible, and without all the extra parentheses.  Anyway to 
> clean this up?
> 
> Maybe it wouldn't be as big a change as it seems?  ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
>    Ron


Ok, this has a problem, there's no way to pass the values as keywords 
also.  The lambda's a bit too isolated. So the following doesn't work as 
expected.

lamb( (lambda x=10: (x,y,x+y,{'x':x}))() )


Regards,
    Ron


From benzwt at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Oct  3 12:39:37 2005
From: benzwt at yahoo.com.tw (benz)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 09:39:37 -0700
Subject: Graphical debugger/code explorer
References: <dhrlbj$sph$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1128357577.579290.122340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

>>>PYTHON_IDE={
'spe' : 'http://spe.pycs.net/',
'eric3' : 'http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html',
'drpython' : 'http://drpython.sourceforge.net/'}


:)



From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Oct 20 10:15:01 2005
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:15:01 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>

On 20 Oct 2005 01:58:44 -0700, the_crazy88 <python at gentoolinux.demon.nl> wrote:

> Just use
> os.system("export PYTHONPATH = %s" %("your_pythonpath"))

... except it won't work: os.system will execute the command in a new process, so the environment variable change will only be visible in *this* process. Since you don't do anything else, the environment variable change will never be seen by anyone.

As for the OP's question, the short answer is "you can't": the Python interpreter will always be executed in a different process than the calling shell, and environment variable changes *never* impact the calling process on Unix.

The closest thing you can do is that:

-myScript.py--------------------------------------
print 'export MY_VARIABLE=value'
--------------------------------------------------

-myScript.sh--------------------------------------
python myScript.py > /tmp/chgvars.sh
. /tmp/chgvars.sh
--------------------------------------------------

This is quite ugly: you write the shell commands changing the environment variables to a file, then "source" this file in the calling shell. But this is probably the best way to do what you want.

HTH
-- 
python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in 'U(17zX(%,5.zmz5(17;8(%,5.Z65\'*9--56l7+-'])"


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct  6 08:43:43 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 12:43:43 GMT
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
References: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1604.1128601773.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns96E78BB1647F3duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>> I'm stuck on a Windows machine today and would love to fully play
>> with and test a simple python script.  I want to be able to type
>> "python myscript myarg" somewhere.  Is there anything out there to
>> help me? 
> 
> footnote: if you'd prefer to type "myscript myarg" instead, you might
> want to check out this tool:
> 
>     http://effbot.org/zone/exemaker.htm

or even just do:

    SET PATHEXT=.py;%PATHEXT%

and then "myscript myarg" will work for all scripts on your path without 
compiling (if you don't set PATHEXT then "myscript.py myarg" will still 
work, and tab completion means you don't generally need to type the .py for 
scripts in the current directory). 


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 25 17:34:04 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:34:04 +0200
Subject: How to statically link Python with ncurses and readline?
In-Reply-To: <1130265985.862970.185070@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130263338.291061.50210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435e78d1$0$2680$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<1130265985.862970.185070@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435ea4ca$0$16638$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

arve.knudsen at gmail.com wrote:
> Well, I implied that _curses.so and readline.so disappeared as one
> would expect, dependencies on libncurses.so and libreadline.so instead
> showing up in Python itself. It's very strange that this happens with
> ncurses and readline, when both db and Tcl/Tk got linked in with no
> fuss. Anyway, I built static-only (.a) versions of readline and
> ncurses, which did the trick.

Ah, you didn't *have* static versions of readline and ncurses...
So how should it possibly have linked those libraries statically???

Regards,
Martin


From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 09:42:44 2005
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (kdahlhaus at yahoo.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 06:42:44 -0700
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <1129574592.754495.72530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434f8a54$0$16641$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrndl1a35.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<1129574592.754495.72530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129642964.690532.242710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hmm.  I'm not sure what bothered you about cygwin, but if it has been
awhile it's worth another look.  For me it makes windows tolerable, and
even productive.

I'm scared more by your thoughts of transitioning from OS-X to windows.
  I've seen a bit of OS-X and am slowly be warmed up to it as an option
for my next machine by some folks here.   What is causing you problems
with it ( enough to swtich to windows-wow.)?



From ggg at zzz.it  Tue Oct 11 04:20:41 2005
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:20:41 +0200
Subject: mod_python
In-Reply-To: <1129016557.060339.136600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129016557.060339.136600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <q79s13-sit.ln1@news.interplanet.it>

Python_it wrote:
(...)
> But my problem is where I have to place te following code in de
> httpd.conf?
> 
>     <Directory C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\>
>         AddHandler mod_python .py
>         PythonHandler mptest
>         PythonDebug On
>     </Directory>
> 
> Because al the tutorials write this. But where?

try put it at the end of your http.conf file.

 >
 > If I try to put the code some where,
 > apache give the following message by testing the configure:
 > Multiple <Directory> arguments not (yet) supported
 > But what i have to change or replace.

just an idea, try:

<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project">
...
</Directory>

because it sounds like apache parser gets confused
with all those slashes.

> 
> I test with the next file:
> 
> C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\
> mptest.py
> 
> from mod_python import apache
> 
> def handler(req):
>    req.content_type = 'text/plain'
>    req.send_http_header()
>    req.write('mptest.py\n')
>    return apache.OK
> 
> Is this code enough for testing?
> 

i believe so.

also check this:
"Getting mod_python Working"
<http://www.dscpl.com.au/articles/modpython-001.html>

-- 
deelan <http://www.deelan.com/>






From deets at web.de  Fri Oct  7 08:46:03 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 05:46:03 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7x7jcpzeyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128687719.783871.50090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x7jcpzeyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128689163.357942.107850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at web.de> writes:
> >  - FPs share their own set of problems - try writing a server. The
> > have inherent troubles with event-driven programs.
>
> Erlang?

Guess what, worked with that, too :) And let me assure you - it does
have pretty much runtime type error issues. It's interpreted. I'm not
sure what the compiler/parser gets at loading a source file. And the
Mnesia distributed database lets you easily query the wrong values...
It's interesting, and it's concurrent programming paradigms are great.
But it's far from being perfect, and needs thourough testing before
deploying new code.

> > Still, FP is cool. But python too. And just attaching some
> > type-inference to python won't work.
>
> Yeah, I've figured declarations in Python would be more like Common
> Lisp's, i.e. optional, enforced at compile time only when the compiler
> can easily figure it out, and at runtime otherwise.

Easy cases are easy... The thing is: I'm all for typechecking as long
as it doesn't burden me. In FP it doesn't, as the expressional power is
way better. But in JAVA, it does. And just doing wishful-thinking about
that Python should do better that won't help... :)

Diez



From stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de  Fri Oct  7 03:39:06 2005
From: stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:39:06 +0200
Subject: ANN: MathDOM 0.5.0 - MathML in Python
Message-ID: <di58of$o4e$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hi everyone,

MathDOM 0.5 is ready for download from SourceForge.

http://mathdom.sourceforge.net/

MathDOM is a set of Python modules (using PyXML and pyparsing) that import
mathematical terms as a Content MathML DOM. It currently parses MathML and
literal infix terms into a DOM and writes out MathML and literal infix,
prefix, postfix or Python terms. The DOM elements are enhanced by domain
specific methods that make using the DOM a little easier.

You can call it the shortest way between different term representations and an
enhanced Content MathML DOM. Ever noticed the annoying differences between
terms in different programming languages? Build your application around the
DOM and stop careing about the term representation that users prefer or that
your machine can execute. If you need a different representation, add a
converter, but don't change the model. Literal terms are connected through an
intermediate AST step that makes writing converters for
Python/SQL/yourfavorite easier.

** New in 0.5.0 **

This release features a completely new API for term I/O. It uses
dictionary-like classes for registering input/output converters. This makes it
easier to extend the package with custom converters. It also means that 'old'
code will break, but since the package is farely recent, I hope that this will
not make its users too much trouble. If the new API is accepted, I will try to
keep it stable in further releases. The examples were updated to show how the
new API is used.


Have fun,
Stefan


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 31 09:33:49 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:33:49 +0100
Subject: process and spinning slash
References: <1130690731.654048.157590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1h58mez.1jo7cnd1lilqm2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130755787.946498.174010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk5a0d$6n6$1@sea.gmane.org>

"benz" <benzwt at yahoo.com.tw> wrote

>I have rewrited my code as follow, but it still not working.
>
> import os, sys
>
>
> pid = os.fork()
>
> if pid == 0:
>  os.execvp("du",("du","-shc","/usr/share"))
> else:
>  while 1:
>    try:
>      os.kill(pid,0)
>      sys.stdout.write('running')
>      sys.stdout.flush()
>      sys.stdout.write('\b\b\b\b\b\b\b')
>    except OSError:
>      print "child ended"

thomas has already explained why that doesn't work:

    http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/428821

</F> 





From magneticlemur at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 03:25:37 2005
From: magneticlemur at gmail.com (magneticlemur at gmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 00:25:37 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <1129180844.893983.290460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129180844.893983.290460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129188337.244055.297530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Brett,

>I don't have an answer for you, but just to clarity for future
>readers... based on the quote above, I assume you mean a native 64-bit
>build for Windows, right?  You never stated what platform you need this
>for, I for one use a 64-bit build of Python on Linux just fine... but
>yes, Windows is another story, especially if you want it built with the
>super-mega-pro VS with optimizations and all that jazz they use for
>official 32-bit Windows binaries.

Yes I carefully checked my message twice and completely
missed the fact that I left out the magic words Windows x64. (d'uh me.)
As you say, for my linux 64 builds, it works perfectly out
of the box. (surprise)

mike



From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Wed Oct 26 16:26:37 2005
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jean-marc)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 13:26:37 -0700
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
In-Reply-To: <1130356709.694069.295350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130356366.749611.148240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130356709.694069.295350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130358397.324451.125750@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

To make amends, I tried my own search and came up with this (that you
might already have...):
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1384f49c35ffba9b/5928092247429e9a%235928092247429e9a?sa=X&oi=groupsr&start=1&num=3

Maybe you'll understand it better than me  :-)



From nephish at xit.net  Mon Oct 24 18:58:25 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 15:58:25 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <1129935678.372329.107850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129927722.835095.191620@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11lilpklp9mib0f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129935678.372329.107850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130194705.182317.124380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

ok, i am stuck a bit here with this line

gp('set xtics (%s)' % ','.join(ticstrings))

the error code says that it is looking for a closing parenthesis.
that and i am kinda new enough not to really get what %s is all about.
i know it formats a string.

can you simply pass a list to 'set xtics' ?

i mean, i got this from the gnuplot site

Syntax:

     set xtics {axis | border} {{no}mirror} {{no}rotate {by <ang>}}
               {offset <offset> | nooffset}
               {  autofreq
                | <incr>
                | <start>, <incr> {,<end>}
                | ({"<label>"} <pos> {<level>} {,{"<label>"}...) }
               { font "name{,<size>}" }
               { textcolor <colorspec> }
     unset xtics
     show xtics

but it does not look like all the options are necessary from the docs,
i guess i am asking, if i just wanted to pass a list of say, 14 tics to
the x axis as a list, what of the above is necessary ?

i built the list by taking time stamps in seconds (the same as being
plotted for x) took the end time minus the start time and divided by
12, incremented each by this amount until i had 12 plots (plus of
course the first and last).
these are all stored in plot_times[]..

any tips ?

sorry if this all sounds a bit scrambled. i just got the hang of
changing from a datetime.datetime to time in epoch seconds. ( these
little triumphs keep me going )

thanks for your help. the graph i built looks great, and looks right
referenced with time. just neeed to print the x a little easier to
read.

thanks again,

shawn



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:29:03 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:29:03 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1129123743.259620.167670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Antoon,
   I just saw that to.  I updated the code like so...

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
	// this will store the result in a Python object
  	PyObject *finalResult;

  	// get arguments from Python
  	char *result = 0;
  	char *in= 0;
      	char *aString = 0;
  	char *bString = 0;
  	MY_NUM *a = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1);  //
the array will be 20 long
  	MY_NUM *b = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1); //
the array will be 20 long
  	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
  	if (!ok) return 0;

  	// do work to get a and b
  	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a MY_NUM * (a pointer
to a MY_NUM array)
  	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
  	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));

  	// make function call, which returns a char *
  	result = doStuff(in, a, b);

  	// save result in Python string
  	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);

  	// free memory
  	PyMem_Free(a);
  	PyMem_Free(b);
	free(aString);
 	free(bString);
	free(result);

  	// return the result as a Python string
  	return finalResult;
  }

..as you can see, i malloc'ed memory, and free'd the memory.  However,
I still have python crashing (after only 3 successful calls to
doStuff).  And yes, doStuff is a plain C function...nothing related to
Python.


Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-12, Java and Swing schreef <codecraig at gmail.com>:
> > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> > 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> > 	PyObject *finalResult;
> >
> > 	// get arguments from Python
> > 	char *result = 0;
> > 	char *in= 0;
> >     	char *aString = 0;
> > 	char *bString = 0;
> > 	MY_NUM *a;
> > 	MY_NUM *b;
> > 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> > 	if (!ok) return 0;
> >
> > 	// do work to get a and b
> > 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> > 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> > 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
> >
> > 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> > 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
> >
> > 	// save result in Python string
> > 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
> >
> > 	// free memory
> > 	PyMem_Free(result);
> > 	PyMem_Free(a);
> > 	PyMem_Free(b);
> >
> > 	// return the result as a Python string
> > 	return finalResult;
> > }
> >
> > ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> > call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> > problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> > actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> > problem
> > so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
> >
> > Any ideas?  Thanks!
>
> Well assuming your doStuff is a C function that knows nothing of python.
> it might be the PyMem_Free(result).
> http://docs.python.org/api/memoryInterface.html says the following:
>
> void PyMem_Free(void *p)
>     Frees the memory block pointed to by p, which must have been
>     returned by a previous call to PyMem_Malloc() or PyMem_Realloc().
>     Otherwise, or if PyMem_Free(p) has been called before, undefined
>     behavior occurs. If p is NULL, no operation is performed.
>
> But your result wasn't allocated by a PyMem_Malloc, it was returned
> to you by a C function.
> 
> -- 
> Antoon Pardon



From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Mon Oct 24 19:20:40 2005
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (grahamd at dscpl.com.au)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 16:20:40 -0700
Subject: Python/Apache Oddness On OSX
References: <mailman.2482.1130165182.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130196040.005404.263530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

John Abel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm running Python 2.3.5/2.4.2 on OSX 10.4.2, and am trying to run CGI
> scripts using the builtin Apache.  For ease, I've symlinked my custom
> modules into the /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages directory, and they
> import OK via command line python.  However, when I perform the import
> from a cgi script, python fails to find the module.  It is definately
> something to do with the symlink, as the CGI works OK if I copy the
> directory into site-packages.  Is there some oddness with Python/Apache
> and symlink imports?
>
> Any pointers would be most useful.

If running OS supplied Apache, it runs as the user "www". Because this
isn't you or root, check that the directory your symlink points at is
accessible to others as well as any directories above it back up to the
root directory. If it isn't accessible, the user Apache runs as will
not
be able to find and use the files. When you are copying the directory
you are possibly giving it read access for others in  the process and
that is why it works then.

Graham



From hagai26 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:26:43 2005
From: hagai26 at gmail.com (hagai26 at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:26:43 -0700
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
Message-ID: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
in a str, like this:
"aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
I know I can use spilt and than join them
but I can also use regular expressions
and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one



From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Sun Oct 30 04:41:29 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:41:29 +0100
Subject: Examples of Python code compared to other languages
References: <20051030004310.7d30b682@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1130646459.375480.190350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051030104129.3601f504@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

On 29 Oct 2005 21:27:39 -0700, Terji78 at gmail.com wrote :

> http://pleac.sourceforge.net/ probably is what you're looking for. It
> shows how to to stuff from the perl cookbook in a plethora of other
> languages, including Python.
> 
> Kind regards Terji Petersen
> 

Hello,

As mentioned in the original message, this site is good but doesn't
include C or Fortran.
Of course I can try to contribute with C code...

Thanks anyway,


From kent37 at tds.net  Sat Oct 15 09:22:21 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:22:21 -0400
Subject: Problem splitting a string
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.15.11.01.42.387531@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.15.07.47.24.278124@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h4gzgc.er0q43111v2w5N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<pan.2005.10.15.11.01.42.387531@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <435100a5$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:51:41 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
>>[ x for x in y.split('_') for y in z.split(' ') ]
> 
> py> mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
> py> [x for x in y.split('_') for y in mystr.split(' ')]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'y' is not defined

The order of the 'for' clauses is backwards:
 >>> [x for y in mystr.split(' ') for x in y.split('_')]
['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

Kent


From david at jotax.com  Thu Oct 27 13:56:36 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 10:56:36 -0700
Subject: Counting Threads
In-Reply-To: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130435796.917475.295830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Just sorted (its always the way when you post isn't it)

But the count isn't doint what I expected.  I was after a increment
after every time the class was used ireespective of instance.  Instead
I get a count based on the instance usage.

Idea's anyone?

#
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
class ServerThreads:
    """
    Wrapper for thread handling.
    Thread ID 0 = Controller
    Thread ID 1 = Plant Object 1
    Thread ID 2 = Plant Object 2
    """

    GlobalThreadCount = 0

    def __init__(self):
        global GlobalThreadCount
        self.Threads = {}
        GlobalThreadCount = 0


    def launch(self, SubToLaunch, SubsArgs=(), SubsKwargs={},
AsDeamon=True):
        t = Thread(target=SubToLaunch, args = SubsArgs, kwargs =
SubsKwargs)
        t.setDaemon(AsDeamon)
        t.start()
        self.Threads[len(self.Threads)] = t           # Stash the
thread in an instance local

        global GlobalThreadCount
        GlobalThreadCount += 1
        print  GlobalThreadCount

    def globalusagecount(self):
        """
        Returns a count figure for how many threads are running in
total
        usnig this class.
        """
        global GlobalThreadCount
        return GlobalThreadCount


    def stop(self,ThreadID):
        t = self.Threads[ThreadID]
        t.stop()
        self.Threads.clear[ThreadID]

    def count(self):
        """
        Returns alist of how many threads are running in the instance
        """
        return len(self.Threads)

    def runningkeys(self):
        """
        Returns a llist of all running Keys
        """
        return self.Threads.keys

    def allOK(self):
        """
        Returns a list of all threads that are down  if any)
        """
        ThreadsDown = []
        for t in self.Threads:
            if not self.Threads[t].isAlive:
                ThreadsDown.append(t)
        return ThreadsDown



From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 17:58:56 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:58:56 -0400
Subject: HELP: Searching File Manager written in Python
References: <1129037968.366932.144250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <06pt13-2ub.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-11, anton wrote:
>
> I am googeling some hours now ... still without result.
>
> So I have a question:
>
> Does somebody know a filemanager:
>
>  - which looks like Norton Commander/7-Zip Filemanager

    What does Norton Commander/7-Zip look like?

>  - where I can add python scripts which I can execute
>    on a selected file

    I use gentoo (the file manager, not the Linux distro). It's not
    written in Python, but you can define buttons that will run any
    commands you like with the selected file[s] as arguments.

    <http://www.obsession.se/gentoo/>

-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From hyakugei at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 22:21:02 2005
From: hyakugei at gmail.com (Jos)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 19:21:02 -0700
Subject: Thread's, async_chat and asyncore
In-Reply-To: <1128392080.485892.287770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128392080.485892.287770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128392462.945795.264010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Gaaa, i just did a run with 999 threads pushing data, and i'm getting
"IndexError: deque" problems, so i'm guessing its _not_ thread safe...

Bummer.

jos



From http  Mon Oct 10 18:22:32 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 15:22:32 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <7xfyr9hv13.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:
> Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would
> be a lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be
> faster, more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.

The next PyPy sprint (this week I think) is going to focus partly on GC.

> Hmm. Maybe it wouldn't make extensions easier or more reliable. You'd
> still need some way of figuring out which variables in C-land held
> pointers to objects; if anything, that might be harder, unless you
> want to impose a horrendous JAI-like bondage-and-discipline interface.

I'm not sure what JAI is (do you mean JNI?) but you might look at how
Emacs Lisp does it.  You have to call a macro to protect intermediate
heap results in C functions from GC'd, so it's possible to make
errors, but it cleans up after itself and is generally less fraught
with hazards than Python's method is.


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 17:45:50 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:45:50 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <7xfyr56szy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129235140.938321.134990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfyr56szy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1129239949.955964.241500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Can you say what your application is?  That will help figure out how far you need to go to protect these passwords, and what alternatives might be possible.

Sure, no problem (see this on fixed text):


         ___________ MasterServer ___________
        //    /         ||   |         \\    \
    ClientServer     ClientServer     ClientServer
      //    \\         //    \\        //      \\
   Client  Client   Client  Client   Client  Client

// = XML-RPC connection
/  = Pure TCP connection

Clients, connects to MasterServer through ClientServer using XML-RPC
ClientServer interacts with MasterServer using 2 modes: XMLRPC and pure
TCP.

Pure TCP connection is used for athenticating ClientServer. When a
ClientServer is authenticated,
the ClientServers can connect to MasterServer for running RPC functions
requested by its Clients.

All ClientServers log in supplying only one hashed password. It is
hashedly stored in MasterServer.

The way I elected to log in is:
    -Generate an MD5 string from a Random Alpha_Numeric string on
ClientServer side
    -Generate another MD5 string from a Random Alpha_Numeric string on
MasterServer side
    -Send each string from one host to the other.
    -Apply a Hash algorithm using both MD5 in conjunction with the
password that each one knows.
    -Then, the ClientServer sends its resulting hashed string to
MasterServer
    -MasterServer then compares its own resulting hashed string with
the one received from ClientServer

ClientServer logs in if:
- IP's ClientServer is not a Blocked IP by MasterServer
- IP's ClientServer is in an Allowed IP Range
- hashed strings match

All this is sustented over a VPN.

Suggestions are welcomed



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 10 16:29:21 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:29:21 -0400
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <86k6gl15ge.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:
> Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would
> be a lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be
> faster, more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.
>
> Hmm. Maybe it wouldn't make extensions easier or more reliable. You'd
> still need some way of figuring out which variables in C-land held
> pointers to objects; if anything, that might be harder, unless you
> want to impose a horrendous JAI-like bondage-and-discipline interface.

Wouldn't necessarily be faster, either. I rewrote an program that
built a static data structure of a couple of hundred thousand objects
and then went traipsing through that while generating a few hundred
objects in a compiled language with a real garbage collector. The
resulting program ran about an order of magnitude slower than the
Python version.

Profiling revealed that it was spending 95% of it's time in the
garbage collector, marking and sweeping that large data structure.

There's lots of research on dealing with this problem, as my usage
pattern isn't unusual - just a little extreme. Unfortunately, none of
them were applicable to comiled code without a serious performance
impact on pretty much everything. Those could probably be used in
Python without a problem.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From grunar at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:47:13 2005
From: grunar at gmail.com (grunar at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:47:13 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129792249.206990.239680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129792249.206990.239680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129823233.157923.130970@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> The big operator question will be: how will "and" and "or" be
> implemented? This is always a sticking point because of Python's
> short-circuiting behaviors regarding them (the resultant bytecode will
> include a JUMP).

I'm using the Boolean | and & operators for logical groups, eg (a | b |
(b & c)).  This might seem ugly to pureists, but solves all of the
short-circuit issues.  It does require the user to use excessive
parentheses, becuase | evaluates before ==.  Another option is to use
functions-- AND(EQ(a, 1), OR(IN(B,(1,2,3)))) -- But I find this hard to
read.  But mixing the two is sometimes clean:  EQ(a,1) & LT(b,2).  But
having too many ways of doing things doesn't seem very pythonic.

>
> An alternative is to stuff the representation into a string, which can
> then be parsed however one likes.
>
> For Dejavu (http://projects.amor.org/dejavu), I didn't do either
> one--instead I used lambdas to express the where clause, so that:
>
>     f = logic.Expression(lambda x: ('Rick' in x.Name) or
>                          (x.Birthdate == datetime.date(1970, 1, 1)))
>     units = sandbox.recall(Person, f)
>
> might produce, in the bowels of the ORM:
>
>     "SELECT * FROM [Person] WHERE [Person].[Name] Like '%Rick%' or
> [Person].[Birthdate] = #1/1/1970#"
>
> Note that the tablename is provided in a separate step. The translation
> is based on the codewalk.py and logic.py modules, which are in the
> public domain if you want to use any part of them. See
> http://projects.amor.org/dejavu/svn/trunk/

This is a very elegant solution, so much so that I almost didn't go
down the path of sqlstring.  Having support for lambda expressions is
still an option, though I wanted to try object operator
overloading/methods first--too see if I could avoid the Bytecode issue.

>
> >    2. How to best add further sql function support? Adding magic
> > callable objects to columns came to mind, but this has it's own set
> > of issues. I'm leaning towards a magic object in the sqlstring
> > module. For example:
> >
> >       sqlstring.F.substring(0, 4, person.first_name)
> >
> >       would result in: substring(0, 4, person.first_name). the F object
> > could be put in the local scope for short-hand.
>
> This is a hard problem, since your sqlstring module doesn't control the
> result sets, and so can't provide fallback mechanisms if a given
> database does not support a given function (or operator, or minute
> detail of how a function or operator works; for example, LIKE is
> case-insensitive in MS SQL Server but case-sensitive in PostgreSQL). If
> you're going to use subclasses to handle "database-specific overwrites"
> (below), then you'll probably want to stick such functions in that base
> class (and override them in subclasses), as well.
Good point.  These things should be able to be "intercepted" in the
database specific modules, so the library has a documented way
functions should be used (ANSI if applicable), but database specific
overwrites allow us to deal with issues or hacks (to emulate a
function) in databases.


> See the Adapter and SQLDecompiler classes in
> http://projects.amor.org/dejavu/svn/trunk/storage/db.py (and the
> store*.py modules) for some examples of using subclassing to produce
> database-specific syntax. There, it's one Adapter class per supported
> DB-type; you might consider keeping the Expression objects themselves
> free from SQL, and transform the Expressions to SQL in a separate
> class, which you could then subclass.
Thanks.  Your approach here had already inspired me, I'll take a look
at it again.  Pulling the SQL out of the Expression objects is double
sided, but might be a way to cleanly support db syntax nuances.  I'll
keep you posted.

Runar



From davids at webmaster.com  Fri Oct 28 15:58:24 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:58:24 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86zmoufiww.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> The quote about the mafia doesn't compare MS's actions to "actual use
> of force".

    I'm sorry, that's just absurd. I won't speculate on what motivates you 
to engage in such crazy distortion. Of course the quote about the Mafia 
compares MS's actions to actual use of force.

> It compares MS to people who are willing to use force to
> get their ends. But there is no "actual use of force."

    This is a gross distortion. What makes the Mafia the Mafia, and the only 
reason to invoke them, is because they actually do use and threaten force. 
They're not just willing to use force, they directly threaten it and use it 
to get their ends, and it's the only thing they do.

    The type of threatening force that the Mafia uses it the type that is 
itself force. When you say to someone "give me all your money or I'll shoot 
you", it's force whether or not you actually have to shoot them.

    DS




From mhellwig at xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 25 15:52:25 2005
From: mhellwig at xs4all.nl (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:52:25 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djlv2l$gr7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>
	<435e786f$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<djlv2l$gr7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <435e8d01$0$11077$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

David Schwartz wrote:
<cut>
>     It's easy to point to things you think are mistakes and claim that if 
> you had been in charge of the world, those mistakes would not have been 
> made. If you are trying to balance completely different possible paths the 
> universe might have taken, you need to make sure to include everything on 
> both sides, and that's really really hard to do.
> 
>     Perhaps the desktop software is good enough that how much better it 
> would have been wouldn't make much difference. And perhaps the lack of 
> competition steered the innovators into other fields where their innovations 
> made huge differences. Perhaps not -- perhaps the desktop software we would 
> have had in a more competitive market would have made other people's lives 
> majorly better. Who knows?
> 
>     I don't think it's possible or sensible to try to have a reckoning of 
> this type. There are so many variables and unpredictable possibilities.
> 
>     DS
> 
> 

I agree that it is hard, nearly impossible, to make the _one_ best 
decision in a situation.
However it is quit possible to not make the very obvious wrong decision.

Just that it is very hard to hit a specific tree with a small handgun 
from a 2 mile distant, that is nearly impossible.
However, just avoiding your feet should be doable.

BTW, I think you are management material...

-- 
mph



From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Oct 24 14:49:14 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:49:14 -0400
Subject: Extention String returning
In-Reply-To: <1130178503.498003.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051024184914.27584.705039868.divmod.quotient.3406@ohm>

On 24 Oct 2005 11:28:23 -0700, Tuvas <tuvas21 at gmail.com> wrote:
>I have been writing a program that is designed to return an 8 byte
>string from C to Python. Occasionally one or more of these bytes will
>be null, but the size of it will always be known. How can I write an
>extention module that will return the correct bytes, and not just until
>the null? I would think there would be a fairly  easy way to do this,
>but, well... Thanks!

Use PyString_FromStringAndSize instead of PyString_FromString.

Jean-Paul


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 12 11:02:13 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:02:13 +0200
Subject: Very dumb question
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F233E43E9F223C0D53FFABFB17B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY103-F233E43E9F223C0D53FFABFB17B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <434D2575.6060708@designaproduct.biz>

David Stockwell wrote:

> Indeed,    Are you writing a new book?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1563052857/wildwierdmathpro

I'm not, but thanks for asking. :-)



From grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 21:36:40 2005
From: grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 18:36:40 -0700
Subject: rrdtool?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.11.00.11.28.456618@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <pan.2005.10.10.19.04.36.350250@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128975509.418396.232840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.11.00.11.28.456618@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1128994600.125459.54910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I don't know of any, so maybe it's time to roll our sleeves :-)

Actually, a while ago I started a python project called perfstats
(<http://sourceforge.net/projects/perfstats>) which uses SNMP to
retrieve various system performance metrics, stores them into a
Firebird database, then displays them using the biggles module. I
haven't worked on it in a while, and I'd rewrite it from scratch
probably. If you want to see the source, check out
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/perfstats/>.

Grig



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Sat Oct  1 03:20:53 2005
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 09:20:53 +0200
Subject: what does 0 mean in MyApp(0)
References: <1128089733.684329.101320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dhjiih$kvc$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<1128102240.452942.180890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhldck$dr4$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

"Alex" <lidenalex at yahoo.se> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:1128102240.452942.180890 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Thanks for the replies. It seems that I have three options
| 1. app=MyApp()
| 2. app=MyApp(0)
| 3. app=MyApp('myfile.txt')
|
| 1. In the first case the output stream will be set to stdout/stderr,
| which means that errors will be sent to a window which will be closed
| when the app crashes.
| 2. In the second case the output will be set to the command prompt
| window, which means that I will be able to catch the errors when my app
| crashes.
| 3. There is also a third alternative which is to set the output to  a
| file.
|
| Alterbnative 2 is simple and useful, so that's why everybody use that
| alternative.
|
| Is that correct?

Not entirely:

1. app=MyApp(): stdout/stderr is redirected to its own window, so you're
                right here
2. app=MyApp(0): stdout/stderr is not redirected to a window.
Tracebacks will show up at  the console. So you're right here to...

But:
3(a). app=MyApp(1, 'some/file/name.txt'):
           stdout/stderr is redirected to to the file 'some/file/name.txt').

The arguments you pass to MyApp are named parameters, so for improved
readability you may want to use:

3(b). app=MyApp(redirect=1, filename='some/file/name'): will redirect stdout
      to 'filespec'

and instead of 2:

2(b). app=MyApp(redirect=0) # stdout/stderr will stay at the console...

Anyway, if you omit the parameter names, make sure you you position them 
correctly, i.e., a filename should only be positioned as /second/ argument.

HTH,
--

Vincent Wehren



| Alex
| 




From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct 20 12:16:44 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:16:44 -0500
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
In-Reply-To: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4357C2EC.8070003@websafe.com>

There is a "gotcha" on this:

How do you define "word"? (e.g. can the
first word be followed by space, comma, period,
or other punctuation or is it always a space).

If it is always a space then this will be pretty
"efficient".

string="aa to become"
firstword, restwords=s.split(' ',1)
newstring="/%s/ %s" % (firstword, restwords)

I'm sure the regular expression gurus here can come
up with something if it can be followed by other than
a space.

-Larry Bates


hagai26 at gmail.com wrote:
> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
> in a str, like this:
> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
> I know I can use spilt and than join them
> but I can also use regular expressions
> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one
> 


From dduerrenmatt at swissonline.ch  Sun Oct 23 07:29:19 2005
From: dduerrenmatt at swissonline.ch (David Duerrenmatt)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:29:19 +0200
Subject: os.system, IIS6.0
Message-ID: <djfs6k$3oe$1@news.hispeed.ch>

Hi there

Since we migrated from Windows 2000 Server to Windows 2003 Server, we 
encountered some problems with the Python scripts calling os.system(). 
They either copy files (permissions on files properly set) or run local 
programs. While using Win 2K, everything was alright. I assume, it's 
caused by stronger security settings for the IUSR-Account (the programs 
do their work if they are run from the command prompt by the system 
administrator).

Does anybody know how to change the permissions of the IUSR account to 
allow the execution of system commands or external programs? Or is it 
another issue which creates these problems?

Some system details:
- Windows 2003 Web Edition
- IIS 6.0
- Python 1.5.2 (has to be this outdated version because of pyd files 
which depend on Python15.dll)


Thanks
dave


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Wed Oct  5 11:37:31 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:37:31 -0600
Subject: change a value to NULL?
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F0D@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

I'm pulling a list of numbers from MS Excel, but occasionally if there
is no data from excel, the value is an asterisk, but I need to make it
null.  

What is the best way to do that?  Thus far, I'm using:


for value in myRange:
       try:
           intV = int(value)
           print intV
       except:
           print "its an asterisk" 


but I need to get at my list and substitute the *'s with nulls to load
into a database.

Thanks.

Kevin Bell



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct  6 02:57:09 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 06:57:09 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<6xO0f.166857$p_1.72982@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4344c53e.3325034196@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:10:58 GMT, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-04, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
>> 
>>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>>Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>>>
>>>>>And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
>>>>>early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
>>>>>employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Using (unit)tests will not guarantee that your programs is error free.
>>>>
>>>>So if sooner or later a (unit)tested program causes a problem, will you
>>>>then argue that we should abondon tests, because tests won't catch
>>>>all errors.
>>>
>>>Maybe you need to specify what kind of errors you want to catch. 
>>>Different types of errors require different approaches.
>> 
>> 
>> I want to catch all errors of course.
>
>Yes, of course, and so do other programmers.  What I mean is to try and 
>break it down into specific instances and then see what the best 
>approach is for each one is.
>
>When I first started leaning Python I looked for these features as well, 
>but after a while my programming style changed and I don't depend on 
>types and names to check my data near as much now.  But instead write 
>better organized code and data structures with more explicit value 
>checks where I need them.
>
>My concern now is having reusable code and modules I can depend on.  And 
>also separating my data and data management operations from the user 
>interface.  Having functions and names that don't care what type the 
>objects are, makes doing this separation easier.
>
>Another situation where typeless names are useful is routines that 
>explicitly check the type, then depending on the type does different 
>things.  For example if you have a list with a lot of different type 
>objects stored in it, you can sort the contents into sublists by type.
>
>Looking at it from a different direction, how about adding a keyword to 
>say,  "from this point on, in this local name space, disallow new 
>names".  Then you can do...
>
>def few(x,y):
>    a = 'a'
>    b = 'b'
>    i = j = k = l = None
>    no_new_names
>    # raise an error after here if a new name is used.
>    ...
>    for I in range(10):   <--  error
>       ...
>
>This is more suitable to Pythons style than declaring types or variables 
>I think.  Add to this explicit name-object locking to implement 
>constants and I think you would have most of the features you want.
>
You can do that now with a decorator, if you are willing to assign something
to no_new_names (so it won't give you a name error if it doesn't exist). E.g.,

 >>> def nnn(f):
 ...     names = f.func_code.co_names
 ...     assert 'no_new_names' not in names or names[-1]=='no_new_names', 'Bad name:%r'%names[-1]
 ...     return f
 ...
 >>> @nnn
 ... def few(x,y):
 ...     a = 'a'
 ...     b = 'b'
 ...     i = j = k = l = None
 ...     no_new_names=None
 ...     for i in range(10): print i,
 ...
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 3, in nnn
 AssertionError: Bad name:'range'
 >>> @nnn
 ... def few(x,y):
 ...     a = 'a'
 ...     b = 'b'
 ...     i = j = k = l = None
 ...     no_new_names=None
 ...     return a,b,i,j,k,l
 ...
 >>> few(123,456)
 ('a', 'b', None, None, None, None)

No guarantees, since this depends on the unguaranteed order of f.func_code.co_names ;-)

>so...
>
>     no_new_names     # limit any new names
>     lock_name name   # lock a name to it's current object
That last one you could probably do with a decorator that imports dis and
checks the disassembly (or does the equivalent check of the byte code) of f
for STORE_FASTs directed to particular names after the lock_name name declaration,
which you would have to spell as a legal dummy statement like
    lock_name = 'name'

or perhaps better, indicating a locked assignment e.g. to x by

    x = lock_name = expr  # lock_name is dummy target to notice in disassembly, to lock x from there on
>
>
>Since names are stored in dictionaries,  a dictionary attribute to 
>disallow/allow new keys, and a way to set individual elements in a 
>dictionary to read only would be needed.  Once you can do that and it 
>proves useful, then maybe you can propose it as a language feature.
I would want to explore how to compose functionality with existing elements
before introducing either new elements or new syntax. E.g., the dictionaries
used for instance attribute names and values already exist, and you can already
build all kinds of restrictions on the use of attribute names via properties
and descriptors of other kinds and via __getattribute__ etc.

>
>These might also be checked for in the compile stage and would probably 
>be better as it wouldn't cause any slow down in the code or need a new 
>dictionary type.
Although note that the nnn decorator above does its checking at run time,
when the decorator is executed just after the _def_ is anonymously _executed_
to create the function nnn gets handed to check or modify before what it
returns is bound to the def function name. ;-)
>
>An external checker could possibly work as well if a suitable marker is 
>used such as a bare string.
>
>     ...
>     x = y = z = None
>     "No_New_Names"        # checker looks for this
>     ...
>     X = y/z               # and reports this as an error
>     return x,y
>
>and..
>
>     ...
>     Author = "Fred"
>     "Name_Lock Author"    # checker sees this...
>     ...
>     Author = "John"       # then checker catches this
>     ...
>
>So there are a number of ways to possibly add these features.
Yup ;-)

>
>Finding common use cases where these would make a real difference would 
>also help.
>
Yup ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 23:33:25 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:33:25 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they
>>would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it
>>recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML
>>standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they talk
>>about W3C *recommendations*. 
> 
> What do you think the Internet is based on?  RFCs. 

Yup, I know. Hence no standards.

Like I said: there is ISO HTML, and there is a w3c HTML 4.01 
recommendation. The former is a standard, the latter is a defacto standard. 
For some the difference does matter.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From tiarno at sas.com  Tue Oct 11 13:14:01 2005
From: tiarno at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:14:01 -0400
Subject: Best way to share a python list of objects
References: <1128736534.695525.255410@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<digjql$j4s$1@wake.carmen.se>
Message-ID: <digrsp$dod$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>


"Magnus Lycka" <lycka at carmen.se> wrote in message 
news:digjql$j4s$1 at wake.carmen.se...
> kyle.tk wrote:
>> So I have a central list of python objects that I want to be able to
>> share between different process that are possibly on different
>> computers on the network. Some of the processes will add objects to
>> list and another process will be a GUI that will view objects in the
>> list. I want this all to happen in real-time (e.g once a processes adds
>> an object to the list the GUI will see it.)
>>
>> What would be the best way to accomplish this. Some of my ideas:
>> - An XML file r/w-able by all processes
>> - Send pickled objects between all processes and each keeps it own list
>> locally
>> - A ascii type protocol akin to ftp the hands out all the info to the
>> processes
>>
>> Any other ideas? What would work the best
>
> Relational database are useful for sharing data in a controlled way.
> A better option for arbirary Python objects might be ZODB with ZEO.
>
> http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage
> http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/index.html

Another one to consider is wddx, quite useful if you need to share data 
between different languages.

--Tim




From andrea_gavana at tin.it  Wed Oct 12 18:28:21 2005
From: andrea_gavana at tin.it (Andrea Gavana)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:28:21 +0200
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
Message-ID: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>

Hello NG,

First of all, sorry if this is not the right newsgroup.

I have a small image that looks like a GUI button (with 3D effects given by different pixels colours). The current image has as "basic" colour the grey. For "basic", I mean that the predominant colour in the image is grey and some other pixels are brighter or darker in order to give the 3D effect on that image.

Now my question: is it possible to transform the pixels colours in order to have another basic colour (say blue)? In other words, the predominant colour will become the blue, with other pixels in a brighter or darker blue to give the same 3D effects.

Thanks a lot for every suggestion, and sorry if it is a basic question. I just started to learn PIL.

Andrea.

"Imagination Is The Only Weapon In The War Against Reality."
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/infinity77
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20051013/73254dd8/attachment.html>

From daniel.dang.griffith at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:42:57 2005
From: daniel.dang.griffith at gmail.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 08:42:57 -0700
Subject: MD5 Help Page
In-Reply-To: <1128785834.835655.285820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128785834.835655.285820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128786177.538867.36450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Nevermind--chr(0x64) is 'd', as in duh.
    --dang



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Mon Oct 24 15:56:52 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:56:52 GMT
Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
Message-ID: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>

Hi,

The following code outputs the actual HTML text to the browser, not the
interpreted text.

Any idea ?

Regards,

Philippe
import cgi
import logging
import auth #this is the one you must implement (or use SCF ;-)

html_ok = """
Content-Type: text/html\n
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">\n
<html>\n
<head>\n
  <title>Access Granted</title>\n
  <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Quanta Plus">\n
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=koi8-r">\n
</head>\n
<body>\n
    <H1>Access Granted</H1>\n
<HR>\n
    <H4>Welcome %s </H4>\n
<HR>\n
</body>\n
</html>\n
"""

html_nok = """
"Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>

<head>
  <title>Access Granted</title>
  <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Quanta Plus">
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=koi8-r">
</head>
<body>
    <H1>Access Denied</H1>
<HR>


</body>
</html>
"""
# DISPLAY ACCESS DENIED PAGE
def Failure():
    print html_nok
    
#DISPLAY ACCESS GRANTED PAGE
def Success(p_data):
    print html_ok % (p_data)


From erniedude at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 10:36:57 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 07:36:57 -0700
Subject: Compile C program -> .pyc file
Message-ID: <1129905417.451369.114840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Is there a way to compile a C program into a .pyc file that has the
same behavior as the compiled C program?

Thanks!



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Oct 30 19:35:54 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 00:35:54 GMT
Subject: Automatically creating a HOME environ variable on Windows?
References: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djvgei$5t7$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<1130590817.728832.291020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051029164345.54C1.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <slrndmapn1.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:43:44 +0200, Maciej Dziardziel <fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl> wrote:
> jim.eggleston at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Cool, even better. So what's best, having code to add HOME
>> (=USERPROFILE) to os.environ, or change the various places that HOME is
>> used to check for USERPROFILE?
>
> Best solution would be to have portable function that returns
> user home directory and knows about all platfom quirks.

Why is that better than Python creating a HOME in os.environ, if it doesn't
already exist?  I can think of a few reasons it's better, and a few reasons
it's worse.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Wed Oct 19 12:28:42 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:28:42 -0400
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
References: <43567027$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<-_2dndLn4eEm78veRVn-qg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4356740c$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Larry Bates wrote:

> Can you give us an example.  I don't know what two bit
> hex means (takes at least 4 bits to make a hex digit).

Like 64(base 16)=100.
I am referring to 64 in the above.

> 
> Now I'm going to try to guess:
> 
> If the data is binary then all you need to do is to
> use the struct.unpack module to convert to integer.

Doesn't unpack presume that the input is a string ? If so, is it safe to
convert binary data to string using str() ?


From cpu.crazy at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 18:27:07 2005
From: cpu.crazy at gmail.com (CPUFreak91)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 15:27:07 -0700
Subject: Pygame: Filling the screen with tile images
Message-ID: <1128464827.774164.164720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm new to Pygame (by 2 days) and I can't figure out how to tile and
image as the background image.



From mensanator at aol.com  Sat Oct  1 16:17:41 2005
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 13:17:41 -0700
Subject: Printing and prompting adds a mysterious extra space
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1324.1128191337.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1324.1128191337.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128197861.418869.221640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Christoph Haas wrote:
> Evening...
>
> I'm writing a simple interactive program to maintain a database.
> The goal was to print "> " at the beginning of the line, wait for
> user input and then deal with it. Minimal test program:
>
> import sys; print ">", ; print sys.stdin.readline()
>
> However when I run the program and enter "foobar" it looks like this:
>
> ./test.py
> >foobar
>  foobar
> ^----------- where does this space come from?
>
> I wonder where the space comes from in the line where I print what the
> user typed. Does it have to do with the "," after the print which I use
> to suppress the newline? Any ideas?

Another question you could ask is: why is there NO space after
the '>'? Have a look at this.

import sys

print ">",

s = sys.stdin.readline()

print len(s)
print s
for i in s:
    print ord(i),i

Instead of printing the input, I'm assigning it to a variable.
Notice that the extra space appears on the next print statement
and is not part of the input. this is verified by showing that
the input has exactly 4 characters and is "huh\n".

>>>
>huh
 4
huh

104 h
117 u
104 h
10


So it looks like the space was sitting in the output buffer.

>
> Regards
>  Christoph
> --
> I'm still confused - just on a higher level now.
> ~
> ~
> ".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 19 03:11:15 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 07:11:15 GMT
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
	<1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlbscj.9v5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-18, dcrespo schreef <dcrespo at gmail.com>:
>> Before, after, or during the .start() call, or somewhere else?
>
> I'd like to catch *just after* the .start() call.
>
>> I'm quite sure the problem you are trying to solve can be solved, but
>> you are still describing part of the solution you believe you need,
>> rather than explaining why you want to do this (which may let us show
>> you other, simpler or cleaner ways to accomplish your goals).
>
> The thing is that I have in ProgramB a class derived from
> threading.Thread, that runs a TCPServer, listening to a port on local
> ip address.
>
> As you surely know, you have to specify certain parameters when
> instantiating the tcpserver:
>
> SocketServer.TCPServer(server_address, RequestHandlerClass)
> where server_address is a tuple (ip,port)
> ip has to be one of three modes of values (If I remember well):
>
> 1. A null string ''
>    Listens on all IP local address
>
> 2. A string containing the local IP address where you want it to listen
>    Listens only in the specified local IP address
>
> 3. A string containing "localhost".
>    Listens only for connections from "localhost".
>
> Here comes the problem:
> When you specify the case number 2, the IP must be valid for the
> computer where the program runs, otherwise, it raises an exception
> saying that "Can't assign requested address".
> The TCPServer class, defined in a module, is ran (instantiatedly) from
> the main program through a started thread. The thread also is in the
> same module as TCPServer class.
> It looks like (it's much more code than this. If you want the whole
> code, tell me):
>
> MainProgram.py
> ...
> SrvrTCP = module.ThreadedTCPServer(ip,port)
> SrvrTCP.start()
> #Here, I want to know if the TCPServer started well.
> ...
>
>
> module.py
> ...
> class ThreadedTCPServer(threading.Thread):
>
>     def __init__(self, ip,port):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         self.ip= ip
>         self.port= port
>
>     def run(self):
>         TCPServer((self.ip,self.port)) #Here, if the self.ip is
> invalid, it raises an exception.

Just a suggestion, but since it is the main thread you want notified,
you could use signals here. Something like the following:

MainProgram.py

class TCPProblem(Exception):
  pass

def signalcallback(signum, frame):
  raise TCPProblem

signal.signal(signal.SIGHUP, signalcallback)

SrvrTCP = module.ThreadedTCPServer(ip,port)
SrvrTCP.start()
...


module.py

mainpid = os.getpid()

class ThreadedTCPServer(threading.Thread):

    def __init__(self, ip,port):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.ip= ip
        self.port= port

    def run(self):
        try:
          TCPServer((self.ip,self.port)) #Here, if the self.ip is invalid, it raises an exception.
	except ...:
	  os.kill(mainpid, signal.SIGHUP)
	  
-- 
Antoon Pardon



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Tue Oct 11 07:12:06 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:12:06 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<mailman.1837.1128950861.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h485kt.1bru0if72epwrN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dig6mc$20k$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

<snip>

Another idea for this method would be that in some cases I noticed that 
it was useful to know which source each element would come from as well, 
as well as removing duplicates from the results.

For instance

s1 = [1, 3, 5, 7]
s2 = [2, 3, 4]

for k, s in merge_by_sort(s1, s2):
     print k, "from source", s

this would print:

1 from source 0
2 from source 1
3 from source 1
3 from source 0
4 from source 1
5 from source 0
7 from source 0

and the above list has 3 twice, so possibly:

1 from sources [0]
2 from sources [1]
3 from sources [0, 1]
4 from sources [1]
5 from sources [0]
7 from sources [0]

This latter one would be a slightly more heavy method as it would have 
to compare the N first elements of the list or heap to figure out what 
indices to yield as well.

However, the previous solution could be:

def merge_by_sort(*sources, **options):
     if "cmp" in options:
         comparison = options["cmp"]
     else:
         comparison = cmp

     iterables = []
     for index, source in enumerate(sources):
         try:
             source = iter(source)
             iterables.append([source.next(), index, source])
         except StopIteration:
             pass

     iterables.sort(cmp=comparison, key=lambda x: x[0], reverse=True)
     while iterables:
         yield iterables[-1][0], iterables[-1][1]
         try:
             iterables[-1][0] = iterables[-1][2].next()
             if len(iterables) > 1 and comparison(iterables[-1][0], 
iterables[-2][0]) > 0:
                 iterables.sort(comparison, key=lambda x: x[0], 
reverse=True)
         except StopIteration:
             iterables.pop(-1)

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  1 10:33:37 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:33:37 -0400
Subject: Help with syntax warnings
In-Reply-To: <dhjgsl$85a$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F40D3CF141415D4AE4ED998A28E0@phx.gbl>

Well I've been experimenting with the warning filter and it doesn't seem to 
be working. . .I think it has something to do with the fact that warnings 
are issued during the compiling and not during the excecution. . .So the 
filter would come in to late to block them? Any ideas?

-Ivan

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From u.hobelmann at web.de  Sat Oct  1 12:57:45 2005
From: u.hobelmann at web.de (Ulrich Hobelmann)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:57:45 +0200
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon [was Re: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum]
In-Reply-To: <c5ednakvTPmrKKPeRVn-3g@dls.net>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
	<c5ednakvTPmrKKPeRVn-3g@dls.net>
Message-ID: <3q7tg9Fdleo3U1@individual.net>

Paul F. Dietz wrote:
> Bart Lateur wrote:
> 
>> As a similar example: I've been told by various women independently,
>> that "there are more babies born near a full moon."
> 
> That's also a myth.

Right, everybody knows that it's not natural (moon) light that 
influences reproductive behavior, it's artificial light -- TV.

When TV is turned off by a power failure, lots of people that usually 
never have sex start making love, and lots of people that usually use 
contraception lose their minds and forget about it.

9 months later more babies are born, unless that's also a myth.

-- 
We're glad that graduates already know Java,
so we only have to teach them how to program.
	somewhere in a German company
(credit to M. Felleisen and M. Sperber)


From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:33:47 2005
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:33:47 -0600
Subject: Popularity of blogging tools used by python programmers
Message-ID: <d4c0d4800510200833t104debccv5cb5b4d83b9a57a0@mail.gmail.com>

I've made a comparison of the relative popularity of blogging tools
used by python programmers.  I was surprised by the number of python
developers not using python for their blogs; isn't that like GM
employees driving Toyota cars?

See my post at:

http://midtoad.homelinux.org/wp/?p=117

S


From mwilliams at mgreg.com  Sat Oct 22 11:38:46 2005
From: mwilliams at mgreg.com (Michael Williams)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:38:46 -0400
Subject: PID and/or handle assistance. . .?
Message-ID: <9620A40D-05B3-4C30-BF8F-535CFA2AACB7@mgreg.com>

Hi All,

Can anyone explain how to both spawn processes from PYTHON and  
acquire their process IDs or a handle to them for use later?  I'd  
also like to acquire the stdout of each spawned process.

Regards,
Mike




From kent37 at tds.net  Thu Oct 20 15:10:33 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:10:33 -0400
Subject: Question on re.IGNORECASE
In-Reply-To: <1129834544.533189.301780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129834544.533189.301780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4357e9a6$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

chemag at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm having some problems with basic RE in python. I was wondering
> whether
> somebody could provide a hint on what's going wrong with the following
> script. Comments are included.
> 
> TIA.
> -myself
> 
> 
>>python2.3
> 
> Python 2.3.4 (#1, Nov 18 2004, 13:39:30)
> [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-39)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import re
>>>>pattern = re.compile('.*HTTP/(\d\.\d) *(\d*) *(.*)$')
>>>>pattern.search("GGHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n", re.IGNORECASE)
> 
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb75c6ed0>
> 
>>>>pattern.search("GHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n", re.IGNORECASE)
> 
> # this makes no sense to me. Why is the previous line matched

Because the second argument to pattern.search() is the position where the search starts, not a flag. re.IGNORECASE == 2 so your search is skipping the first two chars.

Try giving the flags as a second argument to re.compile():
 >>> import re
 >>> re.IGNORECASE
2
 >>> pattern = re.compile('.*HTTP/(\d\.\d) *(\d*) *(.*)$', re.IGNORECASE)
 >>> pattern.search("GGHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n")
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x00965980>
 >>> pattern.search("GHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n")
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x009659D0>
 >>> pattern.search("Ghttp/1.1 200 OK\r\n")
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x009651B0>

Kent


> # and this not?
> 
>>>>pattern.search("GHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n")
> 
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb758d020>
> 


From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Wed Oct 19 23:23:02 2005
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jean-marc)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:23:02 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1129778582.411476.259500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

As you see, pythonistas are a nice humourous bunch...
But to help a bit more in your balancing act you might take a look at:

http://blog.ianbicking.org/ruby-python-power.html

It's rather nice, and commented.



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct 29 20:35:53 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 17:35:53 -0700
Subject: Recursive generators and backtracking search
References: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130632553.232281.163630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

"Talin" <viri... at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been using generators to implement backtracking search for a while
> now. Unfortunately, my code is large and complex enough (doing
> unification on math expressions) that its hard to post a simple
> example. So I decided to look for a simpler problem that could be used
> to demonstrate the technique that I am talking about.

Here are two even simpler problems that are solved elegantly (though
not necessarily efficiently) with recursive generators:

def cartesian_product(*sequences):
    '''Iterate over the elements of the cartesian product of zero or
more sequences.

    >>> for x in cartesian_product(range(3), 'a', (3.25,-1.2)):
    ...     print x
    (0, 'a', 3.25)
    (0, 'a', -1.2)
    (1, 'a', 3.25)
    (1, 'a', -1.2)
    (2, 'a', 3.25)
    (2, 'a', -1.2)
    '''
    if not sequences:
        yield ()
    else:
        for item in sequences[0]:
            head = (item,)
            for tail in cartesian_product(*sequences[1:]):
                yield head + tail


def powerset(iterable):
    '''Iterate over all subsets of an iterable.

    >>> for s in powerset('abc'):
    ...     print s
    frozenset([])
    frozenset(['a'])
    frozenset(['b'])
    frozenset(['a', 'b'])
    frozenset(['c'])
    frozenset(['a', 'c'])
    frozenset(['c', 'b'])
    frozenset(['a', 'c', 'b'])
    '''
    yield frozenset()
    for s in _powerset(iter(iterable)):
        yield s

def _powerset(iterator):
    first = frozenset([iterator.next()])
    yield first
    for s in _powerset(iterator):
        yield s
        yield s | first


George



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 25 14:26:22 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:26:22 +0200
Subject: How to statically link Python with ncurses and readline?
In-Reply-To: <1130263338.291061.50210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130263338.291061.50210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e78d1$0$2680$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

arve.knudsen at gmail.com wrote:
> That is, there are no longer any readline.so or _curses.so in lib-dynload, 
 > but instead they are added to Python's shared library dependencies.

What is "they" in that sentence? readline.so and _curses.so? I very much
doubt that - more likely, libreadline.so and libncurses.so are in
the dependencies

 > Any clue as to what's going on here would be much appreciated.

Instead of linking with -lncurses, link explicitly with
/usr/lib/libncurses.a; or else using -static as a linker flag.

Regards,
Martin


From pod at internode.on.net  Sat Oct  1 05:17:28 2005
From: pod at internode.on.net (PoD)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:17:28 +0900
Subject: Recursive Property of Octal Numbers
References: <mailman.1312.1128157634.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.01.09.17.18.797326@internode.on.net>

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:40:51 -0700, James Stroud wrote:

> I'm very curious about what is going on here. I'm sure my curiosity has 
> something to do with ignorance of some fundamental concept of computer 
> science (maybe that 8 is just a vertical infinity?):
> 
> py> b = '\xb6'
> py> b[0]
> '\xb6'
> py> b[0][0]
> '\xb6'
> py> b[0][0][0]
> '\xb6'
> py> b[0][0][0][0]
> '\xb6'
> py> b[0][0][0][0][0]
> '\xb6'
> 
> 
> 
> James

b is a 1 character string.
b[0] is a one character string which is the first character of b.
Therefore b[0] == b.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  8 11:37:31 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 16:37:31 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <di8hdm$6ru$1@news.freedom2surf.net>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<di8hdm$6ru$1@news.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <di8p3i$jjk$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steve Horsley wrote:
[...]
> 
> The one that always makes me grit my teeth is "You have got to, 
> don't you?". Well no, I do NOT got to, actually. Shudder!
> 
Shouldn't that be "I don't have to got to"?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct  7 04:09:36 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:09:36 +0200
Subject: dcop module under Python 2.4
In-Reply-To: <1128639872.036312.76620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128639872.036312.76620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3qmopvFfstbiU1@uni-berlin.de>

qwweeeit at yahoo.it wrote:
> Hi all,
> at the end I upgraded to 2.4, but now I am not able to load dcop module
> (part of the Python-KDE3 bindings).
> Any help?

Install PyKDE for 2.4


Diez


From jdc at uwo.ca  Sat Oct  1 23:02:26 2005
From: jdc at uwo.ca (Dan Christensen)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:02:26 -0400
Subject: Recursive Property of Octal Numbers
In-Reply-To: <200509301540.51676.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
References: <200509301540.51676.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <87achsfwot.fsf@uwo.ca>

James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> writes:

> I'm very curious about what is going on here. I'm sure my curiosity has 
> something to do with ignorance of some fundamental concept of computer 
> science (maybe that 8 is just a vertical infinity?):
>
> py> b = '\xb6'
> py> b[0]
> '\xb6'
> py> b[0][0]
> '\xb6'

Maybe this clarifies things?

>>> b='a'
>>> b[0]
'a'
>>> b[0][0]
'a'
>>> b[0] == b
True

Dan


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 29 17:08:09 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:08:09 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>
>On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:29:46 +0200, Bj?rn Lindstr?m wrote:
>
>> "pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com" <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> f = open("filename", "rb")
>>> s = f.read()
>>> sub = "\x00\x00\x01\x00"
>>> count = s.count(sub)
>>> print count
>> 
>> That's a lot of lines. This is a bit off topic, but I just can't stand
>> unnecessary local variables.
>> 
>> print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")
>
>Funny you should say that, because I can't stand unnecessary one-liners.
>
>In any case, you are assuming that Python will automagically close the
>file when you are done.

Nonsense.  This behavior is deterministic.  At the end of that line, the
anonymous file object out of scope, the object is deleted, and the file is
closed.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid  Thu Oct 20 17:07:34 2005
From: i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid (Alan Connor)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:07:34 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<rr2l23-4em.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<0mufl1588t4sj6jcptbb727mquie9fu12r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlg0eo.1e9.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>

On comp.os.linux.misc, in <0mufl1588t4sj6jcptbb727mquie9fu12r at 4ax.com>, "Tim Slattery" wrote:
<body not downloaded>





Three OS's from corporate kings in their towers of glass,
Seven from valley lords where orchards used to grow,
Nine from dotcoms doomed to die,
One from the Dark Lord Gates on his dark throne
In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.

One OS to rule them all,
one OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.






From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 13:36:51 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:36:51 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <1128532725.4560.25.camel@blackwidow>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>	<mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128532725.4560.25.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <43440F33.3080003@designaproduct.biz>


>I've removed all references to the object, except for the cache.  Do I
>have to implement my own garbage collecting is or there some "magical"
>way of doing this within Python?  I pretty much want to get rid of the
>cache as soon as there are no other references (other than the cache).
>
Store weak references to instances.

from weakref import ref

class Spam(object):
    cache = {}
    def __new__(cls, x):
        instance = None        
        if cls.cache.has_key(x):
            instance = cls.cache[x]()
        if instance is None:
            instance  = object.__new__(cls, x)
            cls.cache[x] = ref(instance )
        return instance
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.x = x

Then:

 >>> a = Spam('foo')
 >>> b = Spam('foo')
 >>> a is b
True
 >>> print Spam.cache
{'foo': <weakref at 00A1F690; to 'Spam' at 00A2A650>}
 >>> del a
 >>> del b
 >>> print Spam.cache
{'foo': <weakref at 00A1F690; dead>}
 >>>

Well, of course this is still not thread safe, and weak references will 
use some memory (but it can be much less expensive).
You can grabage collect dead weak references periodically, if you wish.

Best,

   Les




From http  Mon Oct 10 01:26:13 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 22:26:13 -0700
Subject: best Pythonic way to do this sort: Python newb
References: <rQl2f.3390$gj1.199@fed1read05>
	<7xbr1y9e1c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ABm2f.3394$gj1.2075@fed1read05>
Message-ID: <7xhdbqaqoa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> writes:
> > def get_key(x): return x[2]
> > sorted_list = sorted(myList, key=get_key)
> 
> Sorry if I am missing something.  But. what is sorted here?

sorted is a built-in function that sorts the thing that you pass it.
It just appeared in Python 2.4, I think.  With older versions, yeah,
you have to use the .sort method that sorts in place.

> I tried doing the following... with no luck so far
> myList.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(myFunction(x[2]), myFunction(y[2]))

That looks ok to me.

>>> x = [(i,i*i,1 + 17*i**2 - i**3) for i in range(20)]
>>> x
[(0, 0, 1), (1, 1, 17), (2, 4, 61), (3, 9, 127), (4, 16, 209), (5, 25,
301), (6, 36, 397), (7, 49, 491), (8, 64, 577), (9, 81, 649), (10,
100, 701), (11, 121, 727), (12, 144, 721), (13, 169, 677), (14, 196,
589), (15, 225, 451), (16, 256, 257), (17, 289, 1), (18, 324, -323),
(19, 361, -721)]
>>> x.sort(lambda a,b:cmp(a[2],b[2]))
>>> x
[(19, 361, -721), (18, 324, -323), (0, 0, 1), (17, 289, 1), (1, 1,
17), (2, 4, 61), (3, 9, 127), (4, 16, 209), (16, 256, 257), (5, 25,
301), (6, 36, 397), (15, 225, 451), (7, 49, 491), (8, 64, 577), (14,
196, 589), (9, 81, 649), (13, 169, 677), (10, 100, 701), (12, 144,
721), (11, 121, 727)]
>>>


From http  Wed Oct  5 05:35:15 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 02:35:15 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> > Python already has a "global" declaration;
> 
> Which is evaluated at runtime, does not require that the actual global
> variable be pre-existing, and does not create the global variable if
> not actually assigned. I think that is pretty different than your
> proposal semantics.

Different how?

> Your making this feature "optional" contradicts the subject of this
> thread i.e. declarations being necessary.  

They're necessary if you enable the option.

> But, continuing with your declaration thought experiment, how are
> you planning on actually adding optional useful type declarations to
> Python e.g. could you please rewrite this (trivial) snippet using
> your proposed syntax/semantics?

def do_add(x->str, y->str):
      return '%s://%s' % (x, y)

def do_something(node->Node):
      if node.namespace == XML_NAMESPACE:
          return do_add('http://', node.namespace)
      elif node.namespace == ...


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Oct 22 16:02:46 2005
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 22:02:46 +0200
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt vs extension written in C
References: <1129814875.226834.10260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3rqj7vFhstbuU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129847994.610270.212810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <x74q79e2vt.fsf@handshake.de>

"Tamas Nepusz" <ntamas at gmail.com> writes on 20 Oct 2005 15:39:54 -0700:
> The library I'm working on
> is designed for performing calculations on large-scale graphs (~10000
> nodes and edges). I want to create a Python interface for that library,
> so what I want to accomplish is that I could just type "from igraph
> import *" in a Python command line and then access all of the
> functionalities of the igraph library. Now it works, except the fact
> that if, for example, I start computing the diameter of a random graph
> of ~100000 nodes and ~200000 edges, I can't cancel it, because the
> KeyboardInterrupt is not propagated to the Python toplevel (or it isn't
> even generated until the igraph library routine returns).

Python installs a "SIGINT" handler that just notes that
such a signal was received. The note is handled during
bytecode execution. This way, Python handles the (dangerous)
asynchronous signal synchronously (which is much safer).
But, it also means that a signal during execution of your C extension
is only handled when it finished.

What you can do in your wrapper code:

   Temporarily install a new handler for "SIGINT" that
   uses "longjmp" to quit the C extension execution when
   the signal occurs.

   Note that "longjmp" is dangerous. Great care is necessary.

   It is likely that SIGINT occurrences will lead to big
   resource leaks (because your C extension will have no
   way to release resources when it gets quit with "longjmp").


Dieter


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 26 16:04:58 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:04:58 -0400
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com> <868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11liivcbmeops4b@corp.supernews.com> <opsy44qyjyrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<11lps3jj9a7h62c@corp.supernews.com>
	<1h4zleu.115juj63s01m9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrndlva9e.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <86r7a8hwnp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:42:19 -0700, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>>> On 2005-10-24, Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:
>>> >> The only think you can export an environment variable to is a
>>> >> child process
>>> > Well, you know that, and I know that too. From my experience,
>>> > many people don't...
>>> True.  Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
>>> of what's obvious and what isn't.
>> This specific issue is identical in Windows, isn't it?  I do not know
>> any OS which does have the concept of "environment variable" yet lets
>> such variables be ``exported'' to anything but a child process.
> AmigaDOS, if I recall correctly. Its "ENV:" drive/namespace is global, and
> that's its closest thing to Unix environment variables.

AmigaDOS had both global environment variables (using the ENV: device)
and local environment variables, that worked like the Unix
version. You manipulated them in a similar way in the shell, and they
had a similar API for programmers: one call with a flag to indicate
which you wanted. The ENV: device was an implementation detail that
let you save/restore the state of the global environment with file
commands. The posix calls checked the local then global variables.

Of course, this is now 10+ year old memory, and I may not RC.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 11 22:01:40 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:01:40 -0500
Subject: are there internal functions for these ?
In-Reply-To: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051012020140.GI21569@unpythonic.net>

there's 'os.rename' for moving (single) files, and several functions in
'shutil' for moving and copying trees of files.

Jeff
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From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct  9 08:10:46 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:10:46 GMT
Subject: dis.dis question
In-Reply-To: <rwT1f.138151$xl6.1729@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <rwT1f.138151$xl6.1729@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <aN72f.138292$xl6.19229@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Ron Adam wrote:
> 
> Can anyone show me an example of of using dis() with a traceback?
> 
> Examples of using disassemble_string() and distb() separately if 
> possible would be nice also.

  [cliped]

> But I still need to rewrite disassemble_string() and need to test it 
> with tracebacks.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ron

It seems I've found a bug in dis.py, or maybe a expected non feature. 
When running dis from a program it fails to find the last traceback 
because sys.last_traceback doesn't get set.  (a bug in sys?)  It works 
ok from the shell, but not from the program.

Changing it to to get sys.exc_info()[2], fix's it in a program, but then 
it doesn't work in the shell.  So I replaced it with the following which 
works in both.

         try:
             if hasattr(sys,'last_traceback'):
                 tb = sys.last_traceback
             else:
                 tb = sys.exc_info()[2]
         except AttributeError:
             raise RuntimeError, "no last traceback to disassemble"

I'm still looking for info on how to use disassemble_string().

Cheers,
    Ron






From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 23 01:20:58 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:20:58 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86y84k95c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> > Every line = more labour for the developer = more cost and time.
>> > Every line = more places for bugs to exist = more cost and time.
>> There were studies done in the 70s that showed that programmers
>> produced the same number of debugged lines of code a day no matter
>> what language they used. So a language that lets you build the same
>> program with fewer lines of code will let you build the program in
>> less time.
> Of course, these results only apply where the "complexity" (e.g., number
> of operators, for example) in a single line of code is constant.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The tests ranged over
things from PL/I to assembler. Are you saying that those two languages
have the same "complexity in a single line"?

> for item in sequence: blaap(item)
>
> or
>
> for item in sequence:
>     blaap(item)
>
> are EXACTLY as easy (or hard) to write, maintain, and document -- it's
> totally irrelevant that the number of lines of code has "doubled" in the
> second (more standard) layout of the code!-)

The studies didn't deal with maintenance. They only dealt with
documentation in so far as code was commented.

On the other hand, studies of reading comprehension have shown that
people can read and comprehend faster if the line lengths fall within
certain ranges. While it's a stretch to assume those studies apply to
code, I'd personally be hesitant to assume they don't apply without
some reseach. If they do apply, then your claims about the difficulty
of maintaining and documenting being independent of the textual line
lengths are wrong. And since writing code inevitable involves
debugging it - and the studies specified debugged lines - then the
line length could affect how hard the code is to write as well.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 22:38:12 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:38:12 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4ybsu.150mxs1imt43pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

beza1e1 <andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com> wrote:

> let me try.
> 
> 1) ''.join(lots_of_pieces)

Yep.

> 2) This doesn't even work, if something is removed, the list is too
> short. So:
> [x for x in somelist if not isbad(x)]
> well, list comprehension is Python 2.4 and 2.3 is the standard in many
> OSes, so it is possibly not the most portable solution

No, LC goes back a long way -- I think it was in 2.0 already, 2.1 for
sure.  If you have to support (say) Python 1.5.2, the simplest (not
fastest) solution is to loop on a COPY of the list, rather than the very
list you're also modifying.

> I had to look up the syntax, because i never use it in my code, yet.
> 
> 3+4) I never used property - had to look it up. So i learned something
> :)

Good!-)


Alex


From http  Fri Oct 21 12:32:25 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 09:32:25 -0700
Subject: DBM scalability
References: <1129859697.05de93f92162ac35884e384d6b4d3df1@teranews>
Message-ID: <7xu0faq19i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"George Sakkis" <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> writes:
> I'm trying to create a dbm database with around 4.5 million entries
> but the existing dbm modules (dbhash, gdbm) don't seem to cut
> it. What happens is that the more entries are added, the more time
> per new entry is required, so the complexity seems to be much worse
> than linear. Is this to be expected

No, not expected.  See if you're using something like db.keys() which
tries to read all the keys from the db into memory, or anything like that.


From simon at arrowtheory.com  Tue Oct 25 19:58:51 2005
From: simon at arrowtheory.com (Simon Burton)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 16:58:51 -0700
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130207021.408597.322950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435DD972.2040005@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1130284731.823332.268100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

In my case the deeply nested function calls are recursive calls for a
tree traversal.
This is similar to the visitor design pattern, where the Context class
above is the Visitor. The difference is that the Context instance does
not "visit" or "act" upon the nodes, but just stores state/context
information about the current traversal.

Simon.



From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 23:06:11 2005
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 20:06:11 -0700
Subject: Hi All - Newby
In-Reply-To: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
Message-ID: <1130295971.050870.194840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> confusion regarding some of the basics...

Reset your brain.

This came up recently, and despite there being a pending quibble, I
think it's extremely useful to the experienced programmer/new
Pythonista:

http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm

And since Frederik is apparenlty reading this thread, it gives me an
opportunity to say thanks for it!

mt



From notrealaddress at all.com  Thu Oct  6 05:49:53 2005
From: notrealaddress at all.com (Chris Dewin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:49:53 +0900
Subject: Help-log in to a web page
References: <aM51f.8$nq6.116@news.oracle.com>
	<mailman.1594.1128589260.509.python-list@python.org>
	<zf61f.10$nq6.24@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.06.09.49.52.128727@all.com>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:51:31 +0530, Murugesh wrote:

> <input
>         id="username" class="x4" onkeypress="return
> _submitOnEnter(event, 'User');" name="j_username" size="30"
>         type="text" value="myadmin">

I'm a novice too. But that looks to me like a javascript method. At a
guess, it probably re directs the browser to some web script which checks
the password.

If so, knowing the address of that script, and the names of the keys it's
expecting would be useful to you. They might be in the <head></head>
section of the page. If not, they might be contained in a *.js file
somewhere.

I have no idea whether this helpful at all. Just consider it speculation.
-- 
www.wintergreen.in



From Howard_Golden-NR at raytheon.com  Tue Oct  4 20:06:41 2005
From: Howard_Golden-NR at raytheon.com (HOWARD GOLDEN)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:06:41 -0700
Subject: isatty() for file-like objects: Implement or not?
Message-ID: <OFA29F527B.6BE6D192-ON88257090.00823E23-88257091.0000A43F@mck.us.ray.com>

The standard documentation for isatty() says:

        "Return True if the file is connected to a tty(-like) device, else 
False. Note: If a file-like object is not associated with a real file, 
this method should not be implemented."

In his book, "Text Processing in Python," David Mertz says: "... 
implementing it to always return 0 is probably a better approach."

My reaction is to agree with Mertz. I'd appreciate hearing from someone 
why the standard documentation is the way it is. Is there some concept of 
a file-like, non-real file that is to be distinguished using the 
non-implementation of isatty()? If this is the intention, then my 
suggestion is that this distinction is too indirectly expressed, and a 
more direct approach would be easier for non-language lawyers to 
understand. For example, there could be an attribute "unreal" (or, 
contrarily, "real").

Howard B. Golden


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 03:51:58 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:51:58 +0200
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>

Delaney, Timothy (Tim) wrote:
> Tom Anderson wrote:
> 
> 
>>Except that in smalltalk, this isn't true: in ST, every variable
>>*appears* to contain a reference to an object, but implementations
>>may not actually work like that. In particular, SmallTalk 80 (and
>>some earlier smalltalks, and all subsequent smalltalks, i think)
>>handles small integers (those that fit in wordsize-1 bits)
>>differently: all variables contain a word, whose bottom bit is a tag
>>bit; if it's one, the word is a genuine reference, and if it's zero,
>>the top bits of the word contain a signed integer.
> 
> 
> This type of implementation has been discussed on python-dev. IIRC it
> was decided by Guido that unless anyone wanted to implement it and show
> a significant performance advantage without any regressions on any
> platform, it wasn't worth it.

AFAIK some LISPs do a similar trick to carry int values on cons-cells. 
And by this tehy reduce integer precision to 28 bit or something. Surely 
_not_ going to pass a regression test suite :)

Diez


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 31 21:40:11 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:40:11 -0600
Subject: Where to save classes? How to access classes?
In-Reply-To: <4366D235.8040702@dbmdata.com>
References: <4366D235.8040702@dbmdata.com>
Message-ID: <20051101024011.GA14940@unpythonic.net>

This section of the tutorial discusses the module search path:
	http://docs.python.org/tut/node8.html

    6.1.1 The Module Search Path

    When a module named spam is imported, the interpreter searches for a file named
    spam.py in the current directory, and then in the list of directories specified
    by the environment variable PYTHONPATH. This has the same syntax as the shell
    variable PATH, that is, a list of directory names. When PYTHONPATH is not set,
    or when the file is not found there, the search continues in an installation-
    dependent default path; on Unix, this is usually .:/usr/local/lib/python.

    Actually, modules are searched in the list of directories given by the variable
    sys.path which is initialized from the directory containing the input script
    (or the current directory), PYTHONPATH and the installation-dependent default.
    This allows Python programs that know what they're doing to modify or replace
    the module search path. Note that because the directory containing the script
    being run is on the search path, it is important that the script not have the
    same name as a standard module, or Python will attempt to load the script as a
    module when that module is imported. This will generally be an error. See
    section 6.2, ``Standard Modules,'' for more information. 

Jeff
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From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Oct 10 18:57:49 2005
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy (Tim))
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:57:49 +1000
Subject: TurboGears slashdotted
Message-ID: <2773CAC687FD5F4689F526998C7E4E5F4DB6B8@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Grig Gheorghiu wrote:

> "TurboGears: Python on Rails?" post:
> 
>
http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/05/10/10/0650207.shtml?tid=156

Actually, since the submitter used a coral URL (.nyud.net:8090) the
TurboGears site survived remarkably well.

Tim Delaney


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 14 01:54:58 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:54:58 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mark-0C9352.17025313102005@news.isp.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <dinh7j$gd3$1@sea.gmane.org>

> > However, Tkinter not most people's favorite, because the widgets look
> > crude, they don't resemble the native widgets of any popular platform,
> > and the widget set is somewhat limited.

(given that the web interface is the new black, that's not much of
an argument.  tkinter with the right stylesheet can look anyway you
want)

Mark Roseman wrote:

> People should probably be more aware of work that has been going on with
> Tk recently (after a fairly long hiatus) in terms of greatly improving
> its appearance, adding theming, and more.  It's worth checking out, and
> of course, if there's a way to help get some of these changes into
> Tkinter, the Tk folks would I'm sure be helpful.

maybe this should be reposted to tkinter-discuss ?

fwiw, I still use Tkinter for all UI:s I build, but these days, 80-90%
of the visible widgets are based on this module:

    http://effbot.org/zone/wck.htm

sometimes combined with:

    http://effbot.org/zone/draw-agg.htm

</F>





From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct  5 12:50:09 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:50:09 +0200
Subject: Posix return or exit
References: <mailman.1549.1128530267.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk811f.ddo.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

M.N.A.Smadi enlightened us with:
> my script must return codes which are based on the POSIX spec of
> returning a positive value.  A work perl version of my code uses
> exit(code_num).

Use sys.exit(code_num).


Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Oct 14 12:28:27 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:28:27 -0400
Subject: Help with cPickle for deserializing datetime.datetime instances
In-Reply-To: <dinj0p$ot1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20051014162827.3914.1388113746.divmod.quotient.28253@ohm>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:25:27 -0500, Mingus Tsai <mytsai at u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Hello- please help with unpickling problem:
>
>I am using Python version 2.3.4 with IDLE version 1.0.3 on a Windows
>XPhome system.
>
>My problem is with using cPickle to deserialize my pickled arrays of
>datetime.datetime instances.  The following is the code I have written:
>
>	import cPickle, datetime
>	import Numeric
>
>#the file below contains a serialized dict with arrays of datetime
>#objects.  When these three statements run, the IDLE crashes!
>
>	input1 = open('tsm2_outa','r')
>	time1 = cPickle.load(input1)
>	input1.close()
>
>#the file below contains serialized dict with arrays of built-in objects
>#it unpickles without any problem, when I omit the above unpickling
>#operation.
>
>	input2 = open('tsm2_outb','rb')
>	data1 = cPickle.load(input2)
>	input2.close()
>
>My guess is that I need to somehow tell the pickle.load command that it
>is loading datetime instances, but I have no idea how to do this.  Any
>help would be much appreciated.

As I recall, Pickling Numeric arrays is a tricky business.  You probably shouldn't even try to do it.  Instead, pickle regular arrays or lists.

For anyone else who's interested, this can easily be reproduced without an existing pickle file:

exarkun at boson:~$ python
Python 2.4.2 (#2, Sep 30 2005, 21:19:01) 
[GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Numeric, cPickle, datetime
>>> cPickle.loads(cPickle.dumps(Numeric.array([datetime.datetime.now() for n in range(50)])))
Segmentation fault
exarkun at boson:~$ 

Values smaller than 50 randomly mangle memory, but sometimes don't segfault the interpreter.  You can get exciting objects like instances of cPickle.Pdata or refcnt back from the loads() call in these cases.

So, the summary is, don't do this.

Jp


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Oct 17 17:52:27 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 14:52:27 -0700
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
In-Reply-To: <BYmdnW_Ijr-XmcneRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net>
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<mailman.2125.1129436361.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<BYmdnW_Ijr-XmcneRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1129585947.528532.309210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Erik Max Francis:
>result = [sqrt(x**2 + y**2) for x, y in zip(xs, ys)]

Another possibility:

from math import hypot
result = [hypot(*xy) for xy in zip(xs, ys)]

Or better:
from math import hypot
result = map(hypot, xs, ys)

bearophile



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:19:46 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:19:46 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.19.42.429992@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:43:12 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

>>I liken it more to hating all viruses because some of them 
>>install keyloggers.
> 
>  I take it then you avoid browsers or use Lynx?  No you FIX the
> problems rather than wear a hair shirt. 

No, I avoid browsers that are broken, e.g. those that have ActiveX. If
people send a link to a website that includes ActiveX, then no matter how
great the advantages, the disadvantages are more.

Likewise I avoid emails that are broken. If it looks like it will contain
web-bugs, javascript exploits, or badly formatted unreadable text, then I
avoid any mail client that can't display it in plain text.

And by "looks like", I mean "contains any HTML".

> Same for email. Why should
> rich expressions only be permitted to those with websites.  

Because the disadvantages of HTML email are greater than the advantages.
If people mail me HTML mail, I make a snap judgement -- trash it or read
it? It is usually trash it. There are only so many emails with purple text
on indigo backgrounds that a man can read before deciding that the
tasteless, clueless masses should never been given the ability to format
text.

> Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.

Which you can do by attaching the photo to the email. Even mutt or pine
can attach binary files to an email.


-- 
Steven.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct  9 11:55:16 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 17:55:16 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <3qssr4Fgjc2qU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Clearly there is no DISTINCT closure object. If there were, I wouldn't
> need to ask how one can tell them apart, because type() would just report
> that one was a function and one was a closure. I don't have a problem with
> that. But read on...
> 
> 
>>function objects always con-
>>tain all the information they need about their context, and the sum of that is
>>what forms the closure.
> 
> 
> If what you say is true, then all functions are closures, and closure is
> just a synonym for function, and there is no difference between a function
> and a closure. Then why bother to create the term? Clearly, whoever
> invented the term did so to distinguish the two.

You seem to still not getting to it: they aren't supposed to be 
distinguished - a function is a function. But it _can_ have a closure, 
which (shortly spoken) enriches it's local variables lookup. Speaking in 
terms of "is a" could be seen as some inheritance relation. Which 
functions and functions with a closure _could_ have if one wanted to. 
But that is true for other OO-concepts two. See below.

> At a practical, Python level, there is a difference between a function
> before and after it gets made into a closure using, e.g. the original
> poster's memoization technique. In Python at least, it is not true that a
> function and a function-turned-into-closure is the same thing.
> 
> See, for example, this:-


<snip>

Nope. You mix things here. spam1 is a function. spam2 is actually bound 
to the function-object created by do_nothing - a function that has a 
closure because it is nested in closefy, and accesses variables from its 
outer lexical scope - thus i needs a closure. Part of do_nothing's 
closure is spam1 (or, better to say, the function reference that has 
been originally bound to spam1 - spam1 is just a name). Important is 
that the closure gets created at runtime, so each returned instance of 
do_nothing has its own. But the original spam1 implementation is 
untouched  contrary to what  you state above. It still is teh same 
thing, and has no closure.

Consider this:

class Foo(object):
     pass

f = Foo()
g = Foo()
g.bar = "whatever"

f and g are both Foo - but one has a different attribute set. And if Foo 
had some semantics that did something different based on bar, would you 
also say they're supposed have two different classes? You could in fact 
do that - create one class for each incarnation of possible  state. But 
then the concept of classes and objects gets somewhat blurred, as each 
instance would have its own class. The same is true for functions.

> So no, there is no "abstract" difference between a closure and a raw
> function, but there is a practical difference. Now perhaps in some other
> languages there is no practical difference either, but (as far as I can
> see) Python is not that language.
> 
> Am I close? 

Closer :)

Regards,

Diez


From scott at alodar.com  Thu Oct 13 19:54:58 2005
From: scott at alodar.com (Scott Ellsworth)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:54:58 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
	<86r7aqugmk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<iitrk1dmcr1eoiei7tuqrels1c86du7dn5@4ax.com>
	<7xk6ghkflq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <scott-3EBE28.16545813102005@news.west.cox.net>

In article <7xk6ghkflq.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
 Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> > Next Mr. Phish had to present his passport etc when he got his Thawte
> > ID.  Now Interpol has a much better handle on putting him in jail.
> > He can't repudiate his phishing attempt.
> 
> Any underage drinker in a college town can tell you a hundred ways to
> get sufficient fake ID to get around that.

Most such jurisdictions get very excited, though, if that underage 
drinker kills someone while driving drunk.  Ofttimes, that gets _real_ 
police attention, rather than occasional bouncer investigation.

Make each recieved spam be worth a buck to the reciever, and the 
spammers/phishers/etc will be facing felony charges.  I suspect much of 
the spamming would stop.

Some, of course, would continue.  Pyramid schemes still get proposed, 
but their scope is much smaller.

Scott

-- 
Scott Ellsworth
scott at alodar.nospam.com
Java and database consulting for the life sciences


From jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk  Thu Oct 20 12:37:13 2005
From: jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk (Jim O'D)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:37:13 +0100
Subject: How to retrieve the filename of a module
In-Reply-To: <1129824268.735371.230910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129824268.735371.230910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj8gsd$lr5$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

mku wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> there?s a function inside a module. How can these function retrieve
> the path+name   of his module ? (The path is most important).
> That should also work if the module is part of a package.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Martin
> 

Try the following in the function:

import traceback
f = traceback.extract_stack(limit=2)

If you output f to the interpreter, you'll see the filename but I don't 
know what position in the output list it is guaranteed to be.

Jim


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct  6 06:42:03 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:42:03 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>

> Sure, But allow me this silly analogy.
> 
> Going out on a full test-drive will also reveal your tires are flat.
> So if you one has to be dropped, a full test drive or a tire check
> it would certainly be the tired check. But IMO the tire check
> is still usefull.

But you could write it as test - including not only a look (which 
resembles the limited capabilities of typechecking), but testing the air 
pressure, looking at the tyre type and see that it won't match the rainy 
conditions...

> Hey, I'm all for testing. I never suggested testing should be dropped
> for declarations

The testing is IMHO more valuable than typechecking. The latter one 
actually _limits_ me. See e.g. the java IO-Api for a very bloated way of 
what comes very naturally with python. Duck-typing at it's best. The 
only reason I see typechecking is good for is optimization. But that is 
not the problem with JAVA/.NET anyway. And could possibly be done with 
psyco.

> I wonder how experienced are these programmers? I know I had this
> feeling when I started at the univeristy, but before I left I
> already wrote my programs in rather small pieces that were tested
> before moving on.

<snip>

> Again I do have to wonder about how experienced these programmers are.

Well - surely they aren't. But that is beyond your control - you can't 
just stomp into a company and declare your own superiority and force 
others your way. I was astonished to  hear that even MS just recently 
adopted test-driven development for their upcoming windows vista. And 
they are commonly seen as sort of whiz-kid hiring hi-class company, 
certified CMM Levelo 6 and so on....

The discussion is somewhat moot - typechecking is not nonsense. But 
matter of factly, _no_ programm runs without testing. And developing a 
good testing culture is cruicial. Where OTH a lot of large and 
successful projects exist (namely the python ones, amongst others..) 
that show that testing alone without typechecking seems to be good enough.

Diez


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  3 17:37:50 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:37:50 +0100
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>	<1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
Message-ID: <dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org>

Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 16:41, Carsten Haese wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 15:52, Jacob Kroon wrote:
>>
>>>Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
>>>First let me
>>>describe the scenario with an example:
>>>
>>>modules/
>>>    fruit/
>>>        __init__.py
>>>        apple.py
>>>        banana.py
>>>
>>>apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
>>>problem lies in the
>>>fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
>>>peach.py, and not change
>>>__init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
>>>__init__.py. I've come halfway
>>>by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
>>>that the instantiated
>>>objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
>>>I want it to be
>>>fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
>>>
>>>Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
>>>If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
>>>be very grateful.
>>
>>How about something like this in fruit/__init__.py:
>>
>>import os
>>
>>fruit_dir = os.path.dirname(__file__)
>>fruit_files = [x for x in os.listdir(fruit_dir) if (x[-3:]=='.py' and x!='__init__.py')]
>>for fruit_file in fruit_files:
>>  module_name = fruit_files[:-3]
> 
>                   ^^^^^^^^^^^ This should be fruit_file, of course.
> 
> 
>>  exec "from %s import *" % module_name
>>

Wouldn't

     __import__(module_name)

be better.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 09:34:45 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:34:45 +0200
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di5thl$8c0$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:

> I came accross what i think is a serious bug in the python interpreter.

> Membership testing seems not to work for list of objects when these
> objects have a user-defined __cmp__ method.

it does not work if they have *your* __cmp__ method, no.  if you add
a print statement to the method, you'll figure out why:

        def __cmp__(self,other):
            print "CMP", other.allocated, self.allocated
            return cmp(other.allocated,self.allocated)

</F> 





From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct  6 17:44:36 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:44:36 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434545b7$0$662$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <86mzlmpo5r.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<43458fc7$0$660$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <86br22pbgb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> writes:

> Dans l'article <86mzlmpo5r.fsf at bhuda.mired.org>, Mike Meyer a ?crit :
>> Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> writes:
>>> Mike Meyer a ?crit :
>>>> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>>Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Declarations also allow easier writable closures. Since the declaration
>>>>>happens at a certain scope, the run time can easily find the correct
>>>>>scope when a variable is rebound.
>>>> If it happens at runtime, then you can do it without declarations:
>>>> they're gone by then. Come to think of it, most functional languages -
>>>> which are the languages that make the heaviest use of closures - don't
>>>> require variable declarations.
>>> Well, can you give a single example of such language ? Because all the
>>> functionnal language I know but one do need variable declaration : lisp,
>>> scheme, ocaml, haskell do need variable declaration ! Erlang do not ...
>> 
>> Scheme and lisp don't need variable declerations. Last time I looked,
>> Schemd didn't even *allow* variable declerations.
>
> When you want local variable in lisp you do :
>
> (let ((a 3)) (+ a 1))

Excep that's not a decleration, that's a binding. That's identical to
the Python fragment:

       a = 3
       return a + 1

except for the creation of the new scope. Not a variable decleration
in site.

> For global variable you may do:
>
> (defparameter *a* 4)
>
> or:
>
> (defvar *a* 4)

That's not Scheme. When I was writing LISP, those weren't
required. Which is what I said: variable declarations aren't required,
and aren't allowedd in Scheme.

> However, either way, variable assignment is done via :
>
> (setf *a* 5)
> (setf a 10)
>
> This is what I call variable declaration as you have different way
> to declare global variables and to assign them ... So the
> two operations are well defined and different.

Python uses "global foo" to declare global variables.

> And here there is a difference between static language and
> declarative ones ... Lisp is a dynamic language that needs variable
> declarations.

LISP doesn't need variable declarations. I certainly never wrote any
when I was writing it.

>>>> Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
>>>> effect the programing process. And we have conflicting claims about
>>>> whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
>>>> solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
>>>> personal preferences.
>>> Well, so why not *allow* for variable declaration ? Languages like Perl
>>> does that successfully ... you don't like : you don't do ! you like :
>>> you do ! A simple option at the beginning of the file tell the compilor
>>> if variable declaration is mandatory or not !
>> 
>> Perl is a red herring. Unless it's changed radically since I last
>> looked, undeclared variables in Perl have dynamic scope, not lexical
>> scope. While dynamically scoped variables are a powerful feature, and
>> there have been proposals to add them to Python, having them be the
>> default is just *wrong*. If I were writing in Perl, I'd want
>> everything declared just to avoid that. Of course, if Python behaved
>> that way, I'd do what I did with Perl, and change languages.
>
> I never said to adopt the whole Perl variable semantic. I just pointed
> what I think is a good idea in Perl and that help (IMHO) precising what
> I intended ...

And I pointed out that it's a good idea in Perl because it does
something that it doesn't need doing in Python.

>>>> Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
>>>> paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
>>>> compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
>>>> level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
>>>> experienced with something like Pascal would consider
>>>> essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.
>>> Well, could you be more specific once more ? I can't that many paradigm
>>> only available on dynamically typed languages ... beside duck-typing
>>> (which is basically a synonym for dynamically-typed)
>> I said "dynamic languages", *not* "dynamically typed languages". They
>> aren't the same thing. Dynamic languages let you create new functions,
>> variables and attributes at run time. Python lets you delete them as
>> well.  This means that simle declarations can't tell you whether or
>> not a variable will exist at runtime, because it may have been added
>> at run time.
> Ok, I misunderstood ... however, can you still point some *usefull*
> paradigm available to dynamic languages that you cannot use with static
> ones ? As there are so many, it shouldn't be hard for you to show us
> some !

I find the ability to add attributes to an object or class at run time
useful.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Mon Oct 10 13:48:13 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:48:13 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434AA95D.3030605@designaproduct.biz>

How about an OTP (One Time Password) algorithm? It is described in RFC2289.

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2289.html

I have a working implementation in Messlib. You can download it an look 
at the "MessageSocket.SecureMessageSocket" class.
That is a modified version where a good random generator is used instead 
of a finite sequence of passwords.
But it is just example implementation - you can get the idea there and 
develop your own. In fact, my class also has support for
encrypting the communication channel, but the OTP algorithm itself only 
requires a cryptographically secure hash algorithm and a
good random number generator. These are all included in Python. ;-)

I also tried to use SSL before, but I realized that for "secure 
password" type authentication, OTP is much easier to understand and
use. Of course, SSL can be used for securing the communication line 
WITHOUT AUTHENTICATION, and it is harder to understand
and use.

Best,

   Les





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 05:05:57 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:05:57 +0200
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
References: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129152455.3374.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <dil81h$p3i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeremy Moles wrote:

> Probably what you want to do though is just keep the tuple as is and
> iterate over it using the PySequence_* protocol:
>
> http://docs.python.org/api/sequence.html

I did post a complete and tested example a few days ago, which contained
code that showed how to do this.  a complete waste of time, of course.

</F> 





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 08:41:01 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:41:01 +1000
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130242672.024469.324530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.12.40.57.426304@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:17:52 -0700, Iain King wrote:

> 
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>> Joerg Schuster wrote:
>>
>> > I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups.
>>
>> define "more" (101, 200, 1000, 100000, ... ?)
>>
>> </F>
> 
> The Zero-One-Infinity Rule:
> 
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html


Nice in principle, not always practical. Sometimes the choice is, "do you
want it today with arbitrary limits, or six months from now with bugs
but no limits?"

If assigning arbitrary limits prevents worse problems, well, then go for
the limit. For instance, anyone who has fought browser pops ups ("close
one window, and ten more open") may have wished that the browser
implemented an arbitrary limit of, say, ten pop ups. Or even zero :-)

Of course, having said that, in those cases, the limit isn't really
arbitrary. In cases of genuinely arbitrary limits, I agree they are
pointless and annoying (as opposed to having a point but still being
annoying).


-- 
Steven.



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Oct 19 19:58:28 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:58:28 -0700
Subject: what does 0 mean in MyApp(0)
In-Reply-To: <1128089733.684329.101320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128089733.684329.101320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510191658.28511.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

From Google:

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,340,000,000 for 0. (0.09 seconds)

James

On Friday 30 September 2005 07:15, Alex wrote:
> I'm looking at a tutorial with the code below
>
> from wxPython.wx import *
>
> class MyApp(wxApp):
>     def OnInit(self):
>         frame = wxFrame(NULL, -1, "winApp", size = (800,640))
>         frame.Show(true)
>         self.SetTopWindow(frame)
>         return true
>
> app = MyApp(0)
> app.MainLoop()
>
> Everything is explained nicely except the zero parameter in MyApp(0).
> Anybody knows what that zero refers to?
>
> Alex

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From toop82 at comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 22:52:26 2005
From: toop82 at comcast.net (R Toop)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:52:26 -0400
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <esadnQs5M6Wzt9benZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-December/198141.html

wherein Tim gently corrects my brash guess that Python lists are
pointer-linked.
The example's linearly-constructed list is allocated by doubling storage,
copying & freeing (cf realloc).
The result that the process virtual memory is twice the size of the list,
more or less, with the freed predecessor chunks on the process heap, but not
released to the operating system.
This only SEEMS to use as much memory as pointer-linked elements would do.
Hope this URL helps.

-Bob


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au> wrote in message
news:434B1A99.8040107 at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au...
> Can somebody help me please? I've spent a fruitless
> hour googling with no luck.
>
> I'm discussing memory allocation techniques with
> somebody, and I'm trying to find a quote from -- I
> think -- Tim Peters where he discusses the way Python
> allocates memory when you append to lists. In basic
> terms, he says that every time you try to append to a
> list that is already full, Python doubles the size of
> the list. This wastes no more than 50% of the memory
> needed for that list, but has various advantages -- and
> I'm damned if I can remember exactly what those
> advantages were.
>
> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> -- 
> Steven.
>



From alex at moreati.org.uk  Sat Oct  8 08:31:47 2005
From: alex at moreati.org.uk (Alex Willmer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:31:47 GMT
Subject: CSV like file format featured recently in Daily Python URL?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1710.1128704356.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128688213.7906.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.1710.1128704356.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128774705.7706.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 18:56 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Alex Willmer wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to track down the name of a file format and python module,
> > that was featured in the Daily Python URL some time in the last month or
> > two.
> 
> http://www.netpromi.com/kirbybase.html ?

No I don't think that was it. Although KirbyBase looks like a nice
project, particularly the alternative to SQL it uses to specify queries.

I remember the webpage presenting the format as fairly established and
in active use as an export/import medium, the python module was a
binding to an existing library. It's very possible I've combined the
memories of KirbyBase (for instance) and HDF. My recollection is to say
the least, foggy.

Thankyou for replying and thankyou for Daily Python-URL. I'll put this
on a backburner for now. I may remember it or come across it again by
fortune.

Alex



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct  6 14:50:45 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:50:45 +0200
Subject: IDLE won't run on WinXP
In-Reply-To: <1128624437.567189.241140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128624437.567189.241140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <JaWdneTcIo6H79jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

striker wrote:
> I just downloaded and installed Python 2.4.2 on a Windows XP machine.
> Everything I have tried so far has worked except for IDLE.  Is there
> some setting that I need to check?  Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.
> Kevin
> 

It runs perfectly for me, on several Windows XP machines running a 
variety of service packs, so it's not a general Windows XP problem.

Do you get any error messages? any indication as to what might be wrong 
that you can share with use? Does it crash ? Does anything happen when 
you click the start menu item?

Just a thought though, during the installation of Python on one machine 
it mentioned that a dll was missing from my machine, try uninstalling it 
and reinstalling it and see if the text you get at some point tells you 
that this dll is missing. I find it various places on the web, and I 
remember the text said something about Idle or Pythonwin, so it might be 
what you need. I think the name was something like MSVCRT71.DLL but 
don't think I got it 100% right just there... :P

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Fri Oct 14 22:33:56 2005
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:33:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510141912010.4048-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>


(sorry for the top post...but given the subject
line (OP), hopefully I won't offend more than one)

...and just when I was beginning to think that 
Mr. Xah Lee was a changed man and had dropped his
compulsion to use profanity to express his thoughts.
I didn't actually do a grep on his last several 
posts, so I may have been mistaken prior to his most
recent post. RFC actually stands for "request for comments".
...gee what a nice idea. I did not read past his
definition of RFC.

Oh well,

Sorry for breaking the rule "don't feed the troll".
Enough said.

Jim

On 14 Oct 2005, Xah Lee wrote:

> Microsoft Hatred, FAQ
> 
> Xah Lee, 20020518
> 
>     Question: U.S. Judges are not morons, and quite a few others are
> not morons. They find MS guilty, so it must be true.
> 
> Answer: so did the German population thought Jews are morons by
> heritage, to the point that Jews should be exterminated from earth.
> Apparently, the entire German population cannot be morons, they must be
> right.
> 
> Judge for yourself, is a principle i abide by. And when you judge, it
> is better to put some effort into it.
> 
> How much you invest in this endearvor depends on how important the
> issue is to you. If you are like most people, for which the issue of
> Microsoft have remote effect on your personal well-being, then you can
> go out and buy a case of beer on one hand and pizza on the other, and
> rap with your online confabulation buddies about how evil is MS. If you
> are an author writing a book on this, then obviously its different
> because your reputation and ultimately daily bread depend on what you
> put down. If you are a MS competitor such as Apple or Sun, then
> obviously you will see to it with as much money as you can cough out
> that MS is guilty by all measures and gets put out of business. If you
> are a government employee such as a judge, of course it is your
> interest to please your boss, with your best accessment of the air.
> 
> When i judge things, i like to imagine things being serious, as if my
> wife is a wager, my daughter is at stake, that any small factual error
> or mis-judgement or misleading perspective will cause unimaginable
> things to happen. Then, my opinions becomes better ones.
> 
>     Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
> not monopoly, i don't know what is.
> 
> A: Now suppose there is a very ethical company E, whose products have
> the best performance/price ratio, and making all the competitors
> looking so majorly stupid and ultimately won over 90% of the market as
> decided by consumers. Is E now a monopoly? Apparently, beer drinkers
> and pizza eaters needs to study a bit on the word monopoly, from the
> perspectives of language to history to law. If they have some extra
> time, they can sharpen views from philosophy & logic contexts as well.
> 
>     Q: What about all the people in the corporate environments who are
> forced to use MS products and aren't allowed the option/choice to use
> Mac/Linux/UNIX?
> 
> A: Kick your boss's ass, or, choose to work for a company who have
> decisions that you liked.
> 
>     Q: What about MS buying out all competitors?
> 
> A: Microsoft offered me $1 grand for saying good things about them.
> They didn't put a gunpoint on my head. I CHOOSE to take the bribe.
> Likewise, sold companies can and have decided what's best for them.
> It's nothing like under gunpoint.
> 
>     Q: Microsoft forced computer makers to not install competitor's
> applications or OSes.
> 
> A: It is free country. Don't like MS this or that? Fuck MS and talk to
> the Solaris or BeOS or AIX or HP-UX or Apple or OS/2 or Amiga or NeXT
> or the Linuxes with their free yet fantastically easy-to-use and
> network-spamming X-Windows. Bad business prospects? Then grab the
> opportunity and become an entrepreneur and market your own beats-all
> OS. Too difficult? Let's sue Microsoft!
> 
>     Q: Microsoft distributed their Internet Explorer web browser free,
> using their ???monopoly??? power to put Netscape out of business.
> 
> A: entirely inane coding monkeys listen: It takes huge investment to
> give away a quality software free. Netscape can give away Operating
> Systems free to put MS out of business too. Nobody is stopping Sun
> Microsystem from giving Java free, or BeOS a browser free, or Apple to
> bundle QuickTime deeply with their OS free.
> 
> Not to mention that Netscape is worse than IE in just about every
> version till they become the OpenSource mozilla shit and eventually
> bought out by AOL and still shit.
> 
> ??? Netscape struggles, announced open browser source code in 1998-01,
> industry shock
> http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html
> 
> ??? Netscape browser code released in 1998-03. Mozilla FAQ.
> http://mozilla.org/docs/mozilla-faq.html
> 
> ??? AOL buys Netscape in 1998-11 for 4.2 billion.
> http://news.com.com/2100-1023-218360.html?legacy=cnet
> 
> ??? Jamie Zawinski, resignation and postmortem, 1999-04
> http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
> 
> ??? suck.com, Greg Knauss & Terry Colon, 2000-04, Netscape 6 mockery
> http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/04/10/
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/200004,greg_knauss_netscape.zip
> 
> ??? Xah Lee, Netscape Crap
> http://xahlee.org/Writ_dir/macos-talk/58.txt
> 
>     Q: Microsoft implemented extra things to standard protocols in
> their OS so that other OS makers cannot be compatible with their OS
> while their OS can be compatible with all. They used this Embrace &
> Extend to lock out competitors.
> 
> A: My perspective is this: suppose you are now a company who's OS sits
> over 90% of computers (regardless how this come to be for the moment).
> Now, lots of ???standard??? protocols in the industry is a result of
> popularity (RFC = Really Fucking Common), and popularity resulted from
> being free, from the RFCs of the fantastically incompetent by the
> truely stupid unix tech morons. What can you do if you want to improve
> these protocols? If you go with totally different protocols, then the
> incompatibility with the rest 10% isn't your best interest. I would
> adopt existing protocols, and extend them with improvements. Being a
> commercial entity, i'm sorry that it is not my duty to release my
> improvments to my competitors. Any of you incompetent IBM/AIX/OS/2 or
> SGI/Irix or HP/HP-UX or Sun/Solaris or Apple/AU-X/Mac can do the same,
> not that they haven't.
> 
> Of course, the universe of moronic unixers and Apple fanatics cannot
> see that. The unix idiots cannot see that their fantastically stupid
> protocols are fantastically stupid in the first place. The Apple
> fanatics are simply chronically fanatic.
> 
>     Q: Microsoft product is notorious for their lack of security.
> 
> A: In my very sound opinion, if Microsoft's OS's security flaws is
> measured at one, then the unixes are measured at one myriad. If unixes
> suddenly switch popularity with Windows, then the world's computers
> will collapse uncontrollably by all sorts of viruses and attacks. This
> can be seen for technical person who knows unix history well:
> 
> ??? http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/freebooks.html (e.g.
> ftpd/proftpd, inetd/xinetd, sendmail/qmail, X-Windows, telnet, passwd,
> login, rsh, rlogin.)
> 
> ??? on the criminality of buffer overflow, by Henry Baker, 2001.
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/buffer_overflow.html
> 
> ??? Fast Food The UNIX Way:
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_fastfood_dir/fastfood.html
> 
> ??? Jargon File: http://www.tuxedo.org/%7Eesr/jargon/
> 
> ??? The Rise of Worse is Better, by Richard P. Gabriel, 1991, at
> http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html
> 
> and plenty other pre-90s documents to get a sense of just how
> fantastically insecure unix was and is. Unix today is not just
> technically slacking in the ???security??? department, but the unix
> ways created far more unmanageable security risks that's another topic
> to discuss.
> 
> The unix crime, is not just being utmost technically sloppy. Its entire
> system and ???philosophy??? created an entire generation of incompetent
> programers and thinking and programing languages, with damage that is a
> few magnitude times beyond all computer viruses and attacks damages in
> history combined. See also:
> 
> ??? Responsible Software License:
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/responsible_license.html
> 
>     Q: Microsoft products are simply poor quality.
> 
> A: Perhaps this in general is true pre-1997. I think the vast majority
> of MS products today have better performance/price ratio then
> competitors. This includes their operating system, their input devices
> (mouse & keyboard), their X-Box gaming console, their software game
> titles, their software architectures and languages (.NET, C#), their
> technologies (few i know: SMB), and many of their software applications
> (suite of Office, which consistently ranked top since early 90s).
> 
> e.g. Tom's hardware review on x-box, esp in comparison with Sony
> Playstation 2. (2002-02):
> http://www4.tomshardware.com/consumer/02q1/020204/index.html
> 
> the leading role of MS Office products can be seen in MacUser &
> MacWorld magazine reviews through out early 90s.
> 
>     Q: BeOS was once to be bundled with PC, but MS meddled with it and
> basically at the end fucked Be up.
> 
> A: BeOS is a fantastically fucking useless OS. No DVD player, No Java,
> No QuickTime, No games, no Mathematica, no nothing. For all practical
> purposes, fucking useless in a different way than every donkey unixes.
> Not to mention the evil Apple computer, refused to pass the QuickTime
> technology, and tried to prevent BeOS from running on Apple hardware by
> refusing to release their PPC hardware spec. Be founder Jean-Louis
> Gassee wrote an article about it. Who's fucking whom?
> 
>     Q: X inc tried to do W, but MS threatened to depart.
> 
> A: Dear X inc., try to find a bigger dick for your needs. If you cannot
> find any, too bad! Suck it up to the big brother and hold on to what
> you can get! If you have the smarts, milk him dry! Free country, free
> to choose partnership. Ladies, previous night's indiscretion is not
> rape the morning after.
> 
>     Q: I'm not a beer bucket or pizza hole, but i want to do research
> over the web. Is there any free stuff on the web i can grab? I'm an
> OpenSource advocate, i demand free things.
> 
> A: ???
> http://www.moraldefense.com/Campaigns/Microsoft/Antitrust_FAQ/default.htm
> (The Center for the Moral Defense of Capitalism)
> 
> ??? http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v21n2/friedman.html (The
> Business Community's Suicidal Impulse by Milton Friedman, 1999-03)
> local copy
> 
>     Q: I'm thinking of putting my wife and daughter on the table. What
> do you suggest to begin with?
> 
> A: Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell:
> http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/jdini/basic_economics.html
> 
>     Q: Are you confident enough to bet your wifes and daughters for
> what you say?
> 
> A: No. But I put my reputation in.
> -------
> This post is archived at:
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/mshatredfaq.html
> 
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ??? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> 








From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Oct 13 16:39:12 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:39:12 -0400
Subject: Yes, this is a python question, and a serious one at that (moving
	to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <434EC5F0.100@bellsouth.net>

Kenneth McDonald wrote:

>For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP  
>(from OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that  
>I can only compare it to driving in the Bay Area at rush hour (OS X  
>is like driving in Portland at rush hour--not as bad, but getting  
>there), but there are really only a couple of things that are really,  
>absolutely preventing me from making the switch. Number one is the  
>lack of a decent command line and command-line environment, and I'm  
>wondering (hoping) if perhaps someone has written a "Python shell"-- 
>something that will look like a regular shell, let users type in  
>commands, maybe have some of the nice features of bash etc. like tab  
>completion, etc, and will then execute an underlying python script  
>when the command is entered. I'm not thinking of IDLE, but something  
>that is really aimed more at being a system terminal, not a Python- 
>specific terminal.
>  
>
ipython -p pysh

IPython rocks as a Python shell.  I use zsh mostly, but IPython's pysh 
looks pretty good.  I hate to help you get back on Windows, though :-)


- jmj


From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct  3 14:42:15 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:42:15 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected andpublic?
In-Reply-To: <86wtkujx04.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xzmprueyg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkujx04.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <434179df$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> 
>>>>That's not what privilege separation means.  It means that the
>>>>privileged objects stay secure even when the unprivileged part of the
>>>>program is completely controlled by an attacker.
>>>
>>>In which case, what's "private" got to do with this? The examples I've
>>>seen of it don't give you privilege seperation any more than python does.
>>
>>If you have a java class instance with a private member that's (say) a
>>network socket to a special port, access to the port is controlled
>>entirely by that class.
> 
> 
> Are you sure? My understanding was that Java's introspection mechanism
> could be used to access private variables.

Yes, in a Java application with the default security manager it is trivial to access a private variable of another class using introspection. For example:

/* HasPrivate.java */

public class HasPrivate {
    private int myPrivate = 42;

}

/* HackPrivate.java */

import java.lang.reflect.Field;

public class HackPrivate {
    public static void main(String[] argv) throws Exception {
        HasPrivate hp = new HasPrivate();
        Field notSoPrivate = hp.getClass().getDeclaredField("myPrivate");
        notSoPrivate.setAccessible(true);
        System.out.println("myPrivate = " + notSoPrivate.getInt(hp));
    }
}

Kent


From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 18:28:38 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:28:38 -0500
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

Hrm...i find it demeaning to relegate Python to a scripting language 
while Visual Basic is in the "software development" section.  Python so 
outdoes VB in every way shape and form.


> I've launched a new forum not too long ago, and I invite you all to go
> there: www.wizardsolutionsusa.com (click on the forum link).  We offer
> all kinds of help, and for those of you who just like to talk, there's
> a chit chat section just for you...Just remember that forum
> communication is much easier, safer, and faster.
> 


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From sherm at dot-app.org  Wed Oct  5 20:41:24 2005
From: sherm at dot-app.org (Sherm Pendley)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:41:24 -0400
Subject: check html file size
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
	<3qj0bhFf3jebU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <m2psqjtr2j.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>

Ulrich Hobelmann <u.hobelmann at web.de> writes:

> Richard Gration wrote:
>> Are you fucking seriously fucking expecting some fucking moron to
>> translate your tech geeking fucking code moronicity? Fucking try writing
>> it fucking properly in fucking Perl first.
>
> Fucking excuse me?
>
> Fucking maybe you should fucking go fucking fuck your fucking self...
>
> Seriously, Xah might be a troll, but this is just pathetic.

I'm guessing you didn't get the joke then. I think Richard's response was a
parody of Xah's "style" - a funny parody, at that.

sherm--

-- 
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org


From brp13 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  5 13:38:21 2005
From: brp13 at yahoo.com (Tuvas)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 10:38:21 -0700
Subject: Extending Python
Message-ID: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C code. I
have an application built in C that I need to be able to use in Python.
I have searched through various sources, starting of course with the
Python site itself, and others, but I felt a bit lacking from the
Python site, it seems it was only made for those who installed the
source distribution, as for the other people... Anyways, thanks for the
help!



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 14:01:35 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:01:35 +0200
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
References: <dim5kv$2jl$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dim7e1$b4v$1@sea.gmane.org>

Neal Becker wrote:

> I can do this with a generator:
>
>     def integers():
>         x = 1
>         while (True):
>             yield x
>             x += 1
>
> for i in integers():
>
> Is there a more elegant/concise way?

depends on your definition of "integers":

    xrange(sys.maxint) # 0-based
    xrange(1, sys.maxint) # 1-based

gives you a sequence-like object that generates all positive Python
integers (no long integers)

    itertools.count() # 0-based
    itertools.count(1) # 1-based

gives you an iterator that generates all Python integers (the behaviour
when it exceeds sys.maxint doesn't seem to be defined, but 2.4 wraps
around to -(sys.maxint+1))

</F>





From theller at python.net  Fri Oct 14 15:58:56 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:58:56 +0200
Subject: Moving to Win XP as a Python developer
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434fdd3b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<u0fkorld.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.2085.1129318032.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oe5rq39b.fsf@python.net>

Trent Mick <trentm at ActiveState.com> writes:

> [Thomas Heller wrote]
>> I have an elisp function bound to a key in XEmacs that starts cmd in the
>> directory where the current buffer is.  IMO this is very convenient.  To
>> access explorer from that command prompt (in the rare cases that I need
>> it) I use 'start .'.
>
> I kind of have the same thing with Dave's Quick Search Deskbar
> (http://www.dqsd.net/) and my little "go" script
> (http://trentm.com/projects/go/). The keystrokes to open a cmd.exe shell
> in my "src" folder is down to:
>
>     <Windows+S>    # to focus in the Quick Search Deskbar textbox
>     go src<Enter>
>
> or to open Explorer in that dir:
>
>     go -o src<Enter> 
>
> or in another "tagged" dir:
>
>     go ~           # open in my home dir
>
> DQSD is a fantastic tool for speeding up launching other things, too:
> mainly Google searches.

Since we are speaking of tricks here:

I have other keys defined in XEmacs for context-sensitive help on the
word under the cursor in Python's htmlhelp file (F2), and the MSDN
library (F6).  Kind of a hack which needs a small compiled C program,
though, since I did not know how to call the needed apis with elisp.

But, what I'm still missing is a function that finds and opens a Python
module.

Thomas


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 10:42:59 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:42:59 +0200
Subject: importing pickle modlue execute the code twice ??
References: <1130163842.450084.176040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djirtl$uat$1@sea.gmane.org>

"ychaouche" wrote:

> i am having a strange experience with the pickle module. I use
> python2.4 and i really don't understand what is happening on !
> take a look at this :
>
> <code>
> import pickle
> print "hello"
> </code>
> <trace>
> hello
> hello
> </trace>

did you perhaps name your test program "pickle.py" ?

</F> 





From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 04:03:51 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:03:51 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
In-Reply-To: <1129170241.274868.45680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129170241.274868.45680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r6in8Fi486aU1@uni-berlin.de>

> In Perl, sort is a function, not some Object Oriented thing. It returns
> the sorted result as another list. This is very simple and nice.

And sometimes exteremely stupid - if your list is large, and making a 
copy just form sorting it (when you don't have to keep a referenece to 
the old list) is highly inefficient.

Calling this stupid tells us just a little bit more of your total lack 
of programming fundamentals.

Not to mention that writing a helper function

def sorted(l):
     l = l[:]
     l.sort()
     return l

to have sorted in versions below 2.4 isn't exactly "magic." But hey, 
we're talking about Xah Lee, a guy who believes his hair could have 
saved the world [1]....


Diez

[1] http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/mi_pixra.html


From iainking at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 09:57:39 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 06:57:39 -0700
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
In-Reply-To: <86vezk1khe.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86vezk1khe.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1130335059.740804.271010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Mike Meyer wrote:
> "Iain King" <iainking at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I have some code that converts html into xhtml.  For example, convert
> > all <i> tags into <em>.  Right now I need to do to string.replace calls
> > for every tag:
> >
> > html = html.replace('<i>','<em>')
> > html = html.replace('</i>','</em>')
> >
> > I can change this to a single call to re.sub:
> >
> > html = re.sub('<([/]*)i>', r'<\1em>', html)
> >
> > Would this be a quicker/better way of doing it?
>
> Maybe. You could measure it and see. But neither will work in the face
> of attributes or whitespace in the tag.
>
> If you're going to parse [X]HTML, you really should use tools that are
> designed for the job. If you have well-formed HTML, you can use the
> htmllib parser in the standard library. If you have the usual crap one
> finds on the web, I recommend BeautifulSoup.
>

Thanks.  My initial post overstates the program a bit - what I actually
have is a cgi script which outputs my LIveJournal, which I then
server-side include in my home page (so my home page also displays the
latest X entries in my livejournal).  The only html I need to convert
is the stuff that LJ spews out, which, while bad, isn't terrible, and
is fairly consistent.  The stuff I need to convert is mostly stuff I
write myself in journal entries, so it doesn't have to be so
comprehensive that I'd need something like BeautifulSoup.  I'm not
trying to parse it, just clean it up a little.

Iain



From imagespaul at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 06:15:22 2005
From: imagespaul at gmail.com (imagespaul at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 03:15:22 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F08542455F6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<4350b0ee$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<Xns96F08542455F6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <1130494522.154445.196440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

http://www.idpz.net/wolfgang/



From laserbeak43 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 14:39:01 2005
From: laserbeak43 at gmail.com (malik)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:39:01 -0400
Subject: any good midi  tutorials?
In-Reply-To: <dioan4$qj1$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
References: <dio954$4a1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<dioan4$qj1$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <bHv6f.37$9i2.7998@news.uswest.net>

anybody know any good midi tutorials for python?
i am trying to make a realtime midi manipulation application.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 21 07:55:51 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:55:51 +0100
Subject: pushing python to multiple windows machines
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D227A@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[shkelley at gmail.com]

> I am working on a project that requires python to be installed on a
large 
> number of windows servers and was wondering if anyone has found a
method 
> to do this.  I found the article from 2003, but nobody ever stated
that 
> they have found an option for this.

I'm not quite clear whether you're asking this question from a Python
point-of-view (eg running Python from a shared drive) or from a Windows
point-of-view. 

If the former then perhaps have a look at the Moveable Python project:

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/movpy/

I admittedly haven't tried it, but since it's designed to run off memory
sticks etc. I imagine running from a shared drive shouldn't be too
difficult.

There are (commercial) products such as LanDesk which facilitate the 
latter, and in any case the Python installation doesn't do anything
especially perverse. If you did want to install on each machine,
perhaps you could get some advice from the Moveable Python people.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Mon Oct 10 13:47:21 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 10:47:21 -0700
Subject: set.__getstate__ not overriden
Message-ID: <1128966441.232116.256870@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

>>> import pickle
>>> class Foo(set):
...     def __getstate__(self): assert False

>>> pickle.dumps(Foo())
# doesn't raise AssertionError

The same happens with frozenset. Before I submit it to the bugs
tracker, is there a chance this is a 'feature' ?

George



From dbpokorny at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 01:23:43 2005
From: dbpokorny at gmail.com (David Pokorny)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:23:43 -0700
Subject: Hygenic Macros
Message-ID: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
multiplication). In Python, I have to type

import Numeric
matrixmultiply(A,B)

which makes my code almost unreadable.

Thanks,
David


From dont at spam.me  Sat Oct  1 00:35:55 2005
From: dont at spam.me (Bugs)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:35:55 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4.2 (final)
In-Reply-To: <433DB7BC.6090002@v.loewis.de>
References: <mailman.1077.1127911373.509.python-list@python.org>	<mMqdnWXS-4IGEaHeRVn-qQ@comcast.com>	<mailman.1213.1128045988.509.python-list@python.org>	<433CCF02.6060005@v.loewis.de>	<dtSdnTZjX91jv6DeRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.1291.1128099985.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433DB7BC.6090002@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <W8udnUTDOpStj6PeRVn-tA@comcast.com>

- I had an old ActiveState python24.dll in \windows\system32 which I 
deleted.  That must've been left over from a 2.4.1 ActiveState 
installation which I had installed then uninstalled sometime ago.

- I then uninstalled Python 2.4.2 and re-installed it for "all" users.
After that everything seemed to work properly.
I'm not sure where the Python 2.4.2 installation put it's python24.dll?

Please let me know if you need additional details.

Thanks,
Bugs

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Trent Mick wrote:
> 
>>I suppose that is possible.  Martin, does python-2.4.2.msi install
>>python24.dll to the Python install dir for a "per-user" installation?
> 
> 
> Yes, that is supported. It would be good if Bugs could confirm that
> he only deleted the wrong python24.dll, with the proper one being
> installed in a different place already. His explanation
> "you called it, it was an errant python24.dll left over from an old
> ActiveState installation." is too imprecise to be able to tell
> whether the two python DLLs where in the same location (requiring
> a repair step) or in different locations (likely then resulting from
> one being per-machine, and the other per-user).
> 
> Bugs?
> 
> Regards,
> Martin


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 11 23:14:13 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 03:14:13 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<k0qok19md1le5ju60ip9a501kt16nia3pv@4ax.com>
	<7xd5mbcwx0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96ECE2345B2E6castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
>> So let's say I decide to send an email to Donald Knuth.
> 
> Good luck.  Prof. Knuth stopped reading email years before there was a
> big spam problem.

Not entirely true:
"My secretary prints out all messages addressed to taocp at cs.stanford.edu 
or knuth-bug at cs.stanford.edu, so that I can reply with written comments 
when I have a chance."
<http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html>

And I am sure Roedy is aware of this, hence his example ;-)

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  5 19:08:21 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:08:21 -0500
Subject: Extending Python
In-Reply-To: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43445CE5.5050206@yahoo.com>

I own Python in a Nutshell, as one person pointed out.  Alex Martelli 
does a great job of introducing the concepts, as long as your'e familiar 
with C.  Additionally he covers wrapping (which is sounds like you're 
trying to do) with SWIG, Pyrex, and a few other options.  It's a great 
book, I have used no other (save python docs) after my introduction.
> I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C code. I
> have an application built in C that I need to be able to use in Python.
> I have searched through various sources, starting of course with the
> Python site itself, and others, but I felt a bit lacking from the
> Python site, it seems it was only made for those who installed the
> source distribution, as for the other people... Anyways, thanks for the
> help!
>
>   




From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:13:34 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:13:34 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2544.1130249080.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435d04b8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130170339.476122.61080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2509.1130225382.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130239804.889031.139640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2544.1130249080.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130249614.256301.192440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Paul Dale wrote:
> pexpect is POSIX compliant and works under Cygwin. I haven't tried it
> under pythonw.

Well if I want my code to run on other computers, then they'd have to
run it under Cygwin right?



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 18:02:23 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 00:02:23 +0200
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca><mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org><1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com><7xbr25xbot.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><11k5qpiri213s59@corp.supernews.com><7xslvhj7xq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<11k5tpkffpf1567@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <dhuu5b$uiq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> IIRC, you just call bind() with a port number of zero, and then
> use some method-or-other on the bound socket to find out what
> port it's bound to.

>>> s = socket.socket()
>>> s.bind(("", 0))
>>> s.getsockaddr()
("0.0.0.0", 4711)

</F> 





From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 10:37:11 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:37:11 +0000
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
In-Reply-To: <1130768592.010756.97890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130768592.010756.97890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk5dn6$jh3$1@sea.gmane.org>

dakman at gmail.com wrote:
> And yet the stupidity continues, right after I post this I finnally
> find an answer in a google search, It appears the way I seen it is to
> create a class for each button and have it call the method within that.
> If anyone else has any other ideas please tell.
> 
I'm hoping you have simply mis-stated your correct understanding of the 
problem, and that what you really propose to do is create a button class 
of which each button in your interface is an instance.

Let's suppose you want each button to toggle between two colors, but 
that the colors for each button are different. The thing to do is create 
a button class that subclasses the button class of your GUI package 
(whatever that may be), storing the required color values as instance 
attributes.

In wxPython, for example, I would write something like (warning: untested):

import wx

class myButton(wx.Button):

     def __init__(self, color1, color2, *args, **kw):
         wx.Button.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
         self.c1 = color1
         self.c2 = color2
         self.state = False

     def onClick(self, event):
         if self.state:
             self.SetBackgroundColor(self.c1)
         else:
             self.SetBaclgroundColor(self.c2)
         self.state = not self.state

Then when you create a button with, say,

     but1 = myButton(wx.RED, wx.BLUE, ...)

you can associate a click on that button with a bound instance method, 
which you'd do in wxPython like:

     wx.EVT_BUTTON(parent, but1, but2.onClick)

but similar considerations apply to Tkinter, and you appear to have the 
wit to be able to extend the argument to that toolkit.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 23 20:59:46 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:59:46 -0400
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232346320.24000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <86ll0j7mrh.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>> bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:
>>> - ~== for approximate FP equality
>> str(a) == str(b)
> This is taken from the AIEEEEEEEE 754 standard, i take it? :)
>
> Seriously, that's horrible. Fredrik, you are a bad man, and run a bad
> railway.
>
> However, looking at the page the OP cites, the only mention of that
> operator i can find is in Dylan, and in Dylan, it's nothing to do with
> approximate FP equality - it means 'not identical', which we can spell
> "is not".
>
> What would approximate FP equality even mean? How approximate?

Hopefully user defined. Rexx has a global control that lets you set
the number of digits to be considered significant in doing an FP
equality test.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 11:46:42 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:46:42 -0000
Subject: Execute C code through Python
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, Ernesto <erniedude at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks.  Can anyone provide an example of using *subprocess* to run
> helloWorld.C through the python interpreter.

No.  You can't run a .C file.  You can run a .exe file (I'm
guessing you're using Windows based on the question).


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Am I accompanied by
                                  at               a PARENT or GUARDIAN?
                               visi.com            


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 14:48:05 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 18:48:05 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F0847955C35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<39u723-ldp.ln1@news.heiming.de>
Message-ID: <Xns96F08C649FB60castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>:
>> Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:
> 
>>> The only thing positive about M$ entering the market, probably
>>> due to their ineffective programming style they pushed Intel into
>>> producing pretty fast while cheapo CPUs.
> 
>> Amazing, I thought Xah Lee was the only one able to fit so much BS in
>> one sentence.
> 
> You them to have a talent to piss-off people with just a single
> terse contribution. ;-)

Only if their contribution is utter BS and I point this out.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de  Wed Oct 19 10:38:49 2005
From: uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Daniel Schüle)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:38:49 +0200
Subject: parser question
References: <dj5ldl$k25$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <dj5lpp$k9s$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

> pattern = re.compile(r"^\s*A\s*{.*}\s*", re.MULTILINE | re.DOTALL)

correction

pattern = re.compile(r"^\s*A\s*{.*?}\s*", re.MULTILINE | re.DOTALL)

I forgot to make it non gready :)




From m_a_t_e_81 at yahoo.it  Mon Oct 17 16:36:31 2005
From: m_a_t_e_81 at yahoo.it (matteo d'addio 81)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 13:36:31 -0700
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: split a file full path
In-Reply-To: <1129514458.420045.75670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129514458.420045.75670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129581391.517889.218440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello, I'm a cs student from Milano (Italy).
I don't use scsh fequently but this should work:

(open srfi-11  ;let-values
      srfi-28) ;format

(define my-path "/Users/t/web/perl-python/I_Love_You.html")

(let-values (((dir-name
               file-base-name
               file-extension) (parse-file-name my-path)))

  (format "~a~%" dir-name)         ;/Users/t/web/perl-python/
  (format "~a~%" file-base-name)   ;I_Love_You
  (format "~a~%" file-extension))  ;.html

You can find more useful function here (scsh reference manual):
http://www.scsh.net/docu/html/man-Z-H-6.html#node_sec_5.1

matteo



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sun Oct  9 19:20:13 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:20:13 +0100
Subject: Idle bytecode query on apparently unreachable returns
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510100013390.9135@urchin.earth.li>

Evening all,

Here's a brief chat with the interpretator:

Python 2.4.1 (#2, Mar 31 2005, 00:05:10)
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1666)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def fib(x):
...     if (x == 1):
...             return 1
...     else:
...             return x * fib((x - 1))
...
>>> import dis
>>> dis.dis(fib)
   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
               3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
               6 COMPARE_OP               2 (==)
               9 JUMP_IF_FALSE            8 (to 20)
              12 POP_TOP

   3          13 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              16 RETURN_VALUE
              17 JUMP_FORWARD            19 (to 39)
         >>   20 POP_TOP

   5          21 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              24 LOAD_GLOBAL              1 (fib)
              27 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              30 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              33 BINARY_SUBTRACT
              34 CALL_FUNCTION            1
              37 BINARY_MULTIPLY
              38 RETURN_VALUE
         >>   39 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              42 RETURN_VALUE

I'm no bytecode connoisseur, but having read 
<http://docs.python.org/lib/bytecodes.html>, i more or less get this.

What puzzles me, though, are bytecodes 17, 39 and 42 - surely these aren't 
reachable? Does the compiler just throw in a default 'return None' 
epilogue, with routes there from every code path, even when it's not 
needed? If so, why?

tom

-- 
News flash: there's no deep meaning or hidden message BECAUSE DAVID LYNCH IS INSANE


From UrsusMaximus at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 13:08:12 2005
From: UrsusMaximus at gmail.com (UrsusMaximus at gmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 10:08:12 -0700
Subject: Python Newbie
References: <1128526724.904832.278270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128532092.807497.293040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I like wxPython, which also can be improved (made more Pythonic) by
using Hans Nowak's Wax http://www.zephyrfalcon.org/labs/wax.html and
also has a great visual framework in PythonCard.

You might check out my links to many Python gui toolkits and related
resources at http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html and there's also a
podcast for folks who are learning Python ;-)))



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 21 02:29:50 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:29:50 +0200
Subject: reload fails if module not in sys.path
References: <1129849234.985211.141940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dja1t0$eam$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lonnie Princehouse wrote:

> Maybe it could fall back to module.__file__ if the module isn't found
> in sys.path??
> ... or reload could just take an optional path parameter...
>
> Or perhaps I'm the only one who thinks this is silly:
>
> >>> my_module = imp.load_module(module_name, *imp.find_module(module_name,path))
> >>> reload(my_module)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named whatever

load_module doesn't do everything that import does.

> I guess I could just deal with this by fiddling with sys.path or using
> imp.load_module again, but.. um.. I like to complain. ;-)
>
> The context here is that I'm loading user-defined modules as plugins,
> and I don't want to keep the plugin directory in sys.path because of
> potential module name conflicts.

so add the plugin-directory to the front of sys.path temporarily,
and remove it after you've imported the plugins.  (this also allows
the plugin writers to split their plugins over multiple modules,
something that can often be quite nice)

</F>





From david at jotax.com  Wed Oct 26 09:36:40 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 06:36:40 -0700
Subject: How do I access the property info in this example ?
In-Reply-To: <slrndlv0tl.g3n.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
References: <1130332635.319629.91900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlv0tl.g3n.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <1130333800.644498.156790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks - I was trying to do ....

c = C()
print c.x.__doc__ 

my mistake.



From dietz at rouge.phys.lsu.edu  Wed Oct  5 09:43:35 2005
From: dietz at rouge.phys.lsu.edu (alexLIGO)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 06:43:35 -0700
Subject: How to get the output from os.system() into a variable?
Message-ID: <1128519815.769933.60660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I would like to execute some command in python on the bash, e.g.

os.system('globus-job-run mike4.cct.lsu.edu/jobmanager-pbs -l
/bin/date')

and want the result of the output in a vector, so something like:

result=python_command(' command_on_the_bash ')

Is that possible? And how to do that?

Thanks
Alexander Dietz



From kcoffie at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  5 16:38:35 2005
From: kcoffie at hotmail.com (k8)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 13:38:35 -0700
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
Message-ID: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello-

I'm stuck on a Windows machine today and would love to fully play with
and test a simple python script.  I want to be able to type "python
myscript myarg" somewhere.  Is there anything out there to help me?  My
main concern is playing with the myarg in the sys.argv list.  I've been
mucking around with IDLE without much success.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  6 03:55:37 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:55:37 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<slrndk70cj.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<863bnghxz0.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk9m3p.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Mike Meyer schreef <mwm at mired.org>:
> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>>>> They also relieve a burden from the run-time, since all variables
>>>> are declared, the runtime doesn't has to check whether or not
>>>> a variable is accesible, it knows it is.
>>> Not in a dynamic language. Python lets you delete variables at run
>>> time, so the only way to know if a variable exists at a specific
>>> point during the execution of an arbitrary program is to execute the
>>> program to that point.
>> It is not perfect, that doesn't mean it can't help. How much code
>> deletes variables.
>
> It's not perfect means it may not help. Depends on the cost of being
> wrong - which means we need to see how things would be different if
> the code was assuming that a variable existed, and then turned out to
> be wrong.
>
> Actually, I'd be interested in knowing how you would improve the
> current CPython implementation with knowledge about whether or not a
> variable existed. The current implementation just does a dictionary
> lookup on the name. The lookup fails if the variable doesn't exist. So
> checking on the existence of the variable is a byproduct of finding
> the value of the variable. So even if it was perfect, it wouldn't
> help.

Yes it would. A function with a declare statement could work
as the __slots__ attribute in a class. AFAIU each variable
would then internally be associated with a number and the
dictionary would be replace by a list. Finding the value
of the variable would just be indexing this table.

>>>> And if you provide type information with the declaration, more
>>>> efficient code can be produced.
>>> Only in a few cases. Type inferencing is a well-understood
>>> technology, and will produce code as efficient as a statically type
>>> language in most cases.
>> I thought it was more than in a few. Without some type information
>> from the coder, I don't see how you can infer type from library
>> code.
>
> There's nothing special about library code. It can be anaylyzed just
> like any other code.

Not necessarily, library code may not come with source, so there
is little to be analyzed then.

>>> Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
>>> effect the programing process.
>> It would be one way to get writable closures in the language.
>> That is added functionality.
>
> Except just adding declerations doesn't give you that. You have to
> change the language so that undeclared variables are looked for up the
> scope.

They already are. The only exception being when the variable is
(re)bound. This can give you 'surprising' results like the
following.

a = []
b = []
def f():
  a[:] = range(10)
  b = range(10)

f()
print a
print b

which will gibe the following result.

[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
[]


>>> And we have conflicting claims about
>>> whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
>>> solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
>>> personal preferences.
>> Whether the good effect is good enough is certainly open for debate.
>> But the opponents seem to argue that since it is no absolute guarantee,
>> it is next to useless. Well I can't agree with that kind of argument
>> and will argue against it.
>
> You're not reading the opponents arguments carefully enough. The
> argument is that the benefit from type declerations is overstated, and
> in reality doesn't outweigh the cost of declerations.

That may be there intend, but often enough I see arguments that boil
down to the fact that declarations won't solve a particular problem
completely as if that settles it.

>>> Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
>>> paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
>>> compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
>>> level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
>>> experienced with something like Pascal would consider
>>> essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.
>> I think we should get rid of thinking about a language as
>> static or dynamic. It is not the language which should determine
>> a static or dynamic approach, it is the problem you are trying
>> to solve. And if the coder thinks that a static approach is
>> best for his problem, why shouldn't he solve it that way.
>
> Except that languages *are* static or dynamic.

Not in the way a lot of people seem to think here. Adding declarations
doesn't need to take away any dynamism from the language.

> They have different
> features, and different behaviors. Rather than tilting at the windmill
> of making a dynamic language suitable for static approaches, it's
> better to simply use the appropriate tool for the job. Especially if
> those changes make the tool *less* suitable for a dynamic approach.

They don't. That seems to be the big fear after a lot of resistance
but IMO it is unfounded.

If I write a module that only makes sense with floating point numbers,
declaring those variables as floats and allowing the compiler to
generate code optimised for floating point numbers, will in no
way restrict any one else from using the full dynamic features of
the language.

>> That a language allows a static approach too, doesn't contradict
>> that it can work dynamically. Everytime a static feature is
>> suggested, some dynamic folks react as if the dynamic aspect
>> of python is in perril.
>
> The problem is that such changes invariably have deep impact that
> isn't visible until you examine things carefully knowing you're
> dealing with a dynamic language. For instance, just as Python can
> delete a variable from a name space at run time, it can add a variable
> to some name spaces at run time. So the compiler can't reliably
> determine that a variable doesn't exist any more than it can reliably
> determine that one does. This means that you can't flag using
> undeclared variables in those namespaces at compile time without a
> fundamental change in the language.

Yes it can. AFAIK python doesn't allow that a variable is created
in a function scope from somewhere else. Sure it may be possible
through some hack that works in the current C implemantation,
but there is a difference between what the language allows and
what is possible in a specific implementation.

Python also has the __slots__ attribute which prohibites attributes
to be added or deleted from instances.

Python can work with C-extension. What would have been the difference
if python would have had a number of static features that would have
allowed this kind of code be written in python itself. Look at pyrex,
I don't see where it lacks in dynamism with respect to python.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Oct 29 17:47:44 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jean-Paul Calderone)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:47:44 -0400
Subject: lambda functions within list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <1130621124.101346.67750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051029214744.10365.1336932408.divmod.quotient.1755@ohm>

On 29 Oct 2005 14:25:24 -0700, Max Rybinsky <sunspire at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello!
>
>Please take a look at the example.
>
>>>> a = [(x, y) for x, y in map(None, range(10), range(10))] # Just a list of tuples
>>>> a
>[(0, 0), (1, 1), (2, 2), (3, 3), (4, 4), (5, 5), (6, 6), (7, 7), (8,
>8), (9, 9)]
>
>Now i want to get a list of functions x*y/n, for each (x, y) in a:
>
>>>> funcs = [lambda n: x * y / n for x, y in a]
>
>It looks consistent!
>
>>>> funcs
>[<function <lambda> at 0x010F3DF0>, <function <lambda> at 0x010F7CF0>,
><function <lambda> at 0x010F7730>, <function <lambda> at 0x010FD270>,
><function <lambda> at 0x010FD0B0>, <function <lambda> at 0x010FD5B0>,
><function <lambda> at 0x010FD570>, <function <lambda> at 0x010FD630>,
><function <lambda> at 0x01100270>, <function <lambda> at 0x011002B0>]
>
>...and functions are likely to be different.

A search of this group would reveal one or two instances in the past in which this question has been asked and answered:

  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/427200
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/424389
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/399224
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/390097
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/389011
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/334625

I could go on for a while longer, but hopefully some of the linked material will answer your question.

Jean-Paul


From jmdeschamps at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 21:41:00 2005
From: jmdeschamps at gmail.com (jmdeschamps at gmail.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 18:41:00 -0700
Subject: how to associate files with application
In-Reply-To: <1130439184.801178.280190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130439184.801178.280190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130463660.699794.79900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Ashok wrote:
> hi,
> i want to know how to make a specific type of file open in an
> application i developed in python when the user clicks on the file.(in
> windows) for eg. a .txt file when clicked opens in notepad, a .doc file
> when clicked opens in MS-word. In the same way i want to make a .xyz
> file open in the application i developed when clicked.
> thanks in advance for any advice.

Not an expert in this (OS-related) field but in Windows I think that
would be a Registry thing...

Maybe this article could help you start somewhere...
http://antivirus.about.com/od/windowsbasics/l/blfileassoc4.htm

Good Luck, and maybe you can reply-post your eventual success recipe!



From stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de  Sat Oct 15 14:04:11 2005
From: stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:04:11 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4351449B.8020309@web.de>

Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> Is there any emerging consensus on the "best" UI for toolkit.  Tk  never
> quite made it but from what I can see, both qt and wxWin are  both doing
> fairly well in general. I'm already aware of the licensing  issues
> surrounding qt (fwiw, I think their license fee for commercial  use is
> eminently reasonable), so aside from that, I was wondering if  there was
> any feedback readers could provide on the following

Oh, one more thing with respect to web apps: There was the nufox announcement
recently, which seems to support XUL driven interfaces in Python.

http://trac.nunatak.com.au/projects/nufox

Stefan


From http  Wed Oct 12 02:25:52 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 23:25:52 -0700
Subject: piping out binaries properly
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
	<86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<gZmdnZ8LVpHPDdHeRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<86psqbwau8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<J6Kdnb2WPvqiOdHeRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <7xy84zgsjz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> > I've written lots of things whose standard out was designed
> > specifically to be read by another program, but never as binary data.
> 
> Plenty of applications use that functionality and depend on it.  See
> cjpeg, djpeg, the pbmplus library, and so forth.

Also "tar cf files... | compress > tarball.Z" used to be a standard
idiom, now replaced by "tar cfz ..." which does about the same thing under
the covers.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 08:11:00 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 05:11:00 -0700
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1128687060.102240.56040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well, suppose you have a class MyObject and you want to add to it some
methods to make its instances into a database. You could put these
methods into another class called Storable (the mixin class).
Then you can mix MyObject with Storable and get what you want,
a class StorableObject inheriting both from Storable and MyObject.
Of course you can reuse Storable to make storable even other
classes, for  instance you could define a StorableOtherObject
inheriting from OtherObject and Storable.

Once in a time, I thought mixins where a good idea; now I don't think
so since they are too easily abused (see Zope 2) and as a consequence
you get spaghetti-inheritance, where you have objects with methods
inherited from everywhere. So be very careful if you want to use
mixins; often you can go without them.

Just my 2 Euro cents,

              Michele Simionato



From andrea_gavana at tin.it  Wed Oct 26 14:55:11 2005
From: andrea_gavana at tin.it (Andrea Gavana)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:55:11 +0200
Subject: wxListbook layout problem
References: <1130256419.199548.313950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e8045$0$20495$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>

Hello Kay,

> Core Windows/Contols folder, replace there wx.LB_DEFAULT by wx.LB_RIGHT
> and resize the main window the listbox on the right side moves into the
> area of colored panel. This is a surprise to say the least. Has anyone
> of the GUI specialists an idea how to fix this?

Yeah, that's a bug, at least on XP. I have tried almost everything (binding
the wx.EVT_SIZE and calling refresh, using a sizer, binding the parent
wx.EVT_SIZE) to no avail... probably there is a solution, but at the moment
I am unable to find it...
I would suggest to fill a bug report on this on the wxPython sourceforge bug
tracker, or whatever it is its name. You could also post this on the
wxPython mailing list.

This is WinXP, Python 2.4.1, wxPython 2.6.1.1 prerelease.

Andrea.

"Imagination Is The Only Weapon In The War Against Reality."
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/infinity77




From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 15:15:00 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 21:15:00 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aY6dnVCeQcxMh9XeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

csheppard91 at gmail.com wrote:
> I've launched a new forum not too long ago, and I invite you all to go
> there: www.wizardsolutionsusa.com (click on the forum link).  We offer
> all kinds of help, and for those of you who just like to talk, there's
> a chit chat section just for you...Just remember that forum
> communication is much easier, safer, and faster.
> 

Easier than what? Having to look into each forum to see if something is 
new? That's easier?
Safer than what? Using a web browser? That's safe?
Faster? That page loads 10 posts in the same speed I get 700 posts with 
usenet.

Don't think so matey.

Nice try though.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From thetau at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 04:38:35 2005
From: thetau at gmail.com (Tau)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 01:38:35 -0700
Subject: Question on class member in python
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129538314.970644.218870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Get answer by typing:
id(a.member)==id(a.getMember())

You will often find id() useful when in doubt whether the two objects
are distinct.



From christian at spam.no  Thu Oct 13 10:29:37 2005
From: christian at spam.no (Christian)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:29:37 +0200
Subject: How to call a script from another?
Message-ID: <434e6f56$0$90426$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

 From a not even newbie:

Without knowing much about Python (yet) I'm trying to install the CMS 
Zope via FTP (with the well documented changes to make it work on an 
Apache server).
By birth Zope is started from a shell script. And not having the 
permissions to execute such ones I'll try writing a .py script (with the 
shebang that I allready knows will do the job) to call another .py 
script like the original shell script does.

So my question is:
How do I call a .py script from another .py script?
(Writing the rest - I hope - is piece of cake ;-) ).

(And yes, I know that there are a lot of other problems but for starters 
I just would like to try to call a .py script from another .py script.)


Thanks

Chris


From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 22:18:42 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:18:42 +1000
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1128900289.144843.161060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4349CF82.7040909@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

George Sakkis wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:00:04 +0300, Ville Voipio wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I would need to make some high-reliability software
>>>running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
>>>(or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>>The software should be running continously for
>>>practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
>>>Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
>>>leak-free enough to achieve this?
>>
>>If performance is really not such an issue, would it really matter if you
>>periodically restarted Python? Starting Python takes a tiny amount of time:
> 
> 
> You must have missed or misinterpreted the "The software should be
> running continously for practically forever" part. The problem of
> restarting python is not the 200 msec lost but putting at stake
> reliability (e.g. for health monitoring devices, avionics, nuclear
> reactor controllers, etc.) and robustness (e.g. a computation that
> takes weeks of cpu time to complete is interrupted without the
> possibility to restart from the point it stopped).


Er, no, I didn't miss that at all. I did miss that it 
needed continual network connections. I don't know if 
there is a way around that issue, although mobile 
phones move in and out of network areas, swapping 
connections when and as needed.

But as for reliability, well, tell that to Buzz Aldrin 
and Neil Armstrong. The Apollo 11 moon lander rebooted 
multiple times on the way down to the surface. It was 
designed to recover gracefully when rebooting unexpectedly:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11.1201-pa.html

I don't have an authoritive source of how many times 
the computer rebooted during the landing, but it was 
measured in the dozens. Calculations were performed in 
an iterative fashion, with an initial estimate that was 
improved over time. If a calculation was interupted the 
computer lost no more than one iteration.

I'm not saying that this strategy is practical or 
useful for the original poster, but it *might* be. In a 
noisy environment, it pays to design a system that can 
recover transparently from a lost connection.

If your heart monitor can reboot in 200 ms, you might 
miss one or two beats, but so long as you pick up the 
next one, that's just noise. If your calculation takes 
more than a day of CPU time to complete, you should 
design it in such a way that you can save state and 
pick it up again when you are ready. You never know 
when the cleaner will accidently unplug the computer...


-- 
Steven.



From http  Thu Oct 13 14:46:08 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 11:46:08 -0700
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
References: <dim5kv$2jl$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2022.1129227088.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xy84xqmq7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
>     itertools.count() # 0-based
>     itertools.count(1) # 1-based
> 
> gives you an iterator that generates all Python integers (the behaviour
> when it exceeds sys.maxint doesn't seem to be defined, but 2.4 wraps
> around to -(sys.maxint+1))

Ugh, I'd say that's a bad bug.  It should be cleaned up to promote to
long (int/long unification you know) and documented to do that.  


From jr2075 at columbia.edu  Tue Oct  4 16:37:34 2005
From: jr2075 at columbia.edu (Jesse Rosenthal)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:37:34 -0400
Subject: Background process for ssh port forwarding
References: <pan.2005.10.01.23.17.38.878080@columbia.edu>
	<20051004194027.GB31364@gate2.hazen.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.04.20.37.33.121445@columbia.edu>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:40:27 -0700, John Hazen wrote:

> I think what's happening is that when you return from 'hostforward', the
> connection is being closed because of garbage collection.  Python uses
> (among other stuff) reference counting to tell it when to delete
> objects.  After hostforward returns from execution, there are no longer
> any references to 'connection', so it gets deleted, which cleans up the
> connection.
> 
> You probably want to add:
> 
>     return connection
> 
> at the end of hostforward, and call it like:
> 
> connection = hostforward()
> my_rsync_function()
> connection.close()   # or whatever the approved pexpect cleanup is

Thanks, John. This makes a lot of sense -- I'll have to give it a try.

I ended up taking an uglier approach. First I set up keys pairs
with my forwarding server so I don't have to log in. So no more need for
pexpect at this point. I then set up an ssh connection with a "-f sleep
10" option. This backgrounds the connection to the forwarding server and
runs "sleep 10" on the forwarding server, which gives me 10 seconds to
log in to my forwarded port (localhost 2022). 10 seconds is actually
probably excessive, since logging in is the next command in the script.
The connection then stays open so long as I'm logged in.

It works, but it seems rather kludgey. So I'll definitely give your
approach a try.

Thanks again
Jesse




From eric.pederson at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 13:35:09 2005
From: eric.pederson at gmail.com (eric.pederson at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 10:35:09 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2518.1130229776.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130193322.138313.320480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2518.1130229776.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130261709.136041.144110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

just namespace + tag



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Wed Oct  5 11:32:28 2005
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:32:28 +0100
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>
Message-ID: <di0rmd$uln$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Mike" <no at spam> wrote in message news:1128522921.72009 at nntp.acecape.com...

> However when I pull it into python the URL ends up looking like this
> (notice the &amp; instead of just & in the URL)
>
> Any ideas?

Some code would be helpful: the "&amp;" is in the page source to start
with (which is as it ought to be). What are you using to parse the HTML?




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 16 07:03:57 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:03:57 +0200
Subject: Help with creating a dict from list and range
References: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com><diojcm$vth$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.2099.1129342011.509.python-list@python.org><1129346319.abc03660b95ff66215dd9905db5e4265@teranews>
	<ditbgg$97g$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ditc2u$aji$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Question: what's the difference between
>
>     dict((name, seq) for seq, name in enumerate(description))
>
> (the improved version of my answer posted by Scott David Daniels) and
>
>     dict(enumerate(description))

a missing

    def enumerate(x, enumerate=enumerate): # override
        return (reversed(x) for x in enumerate(x))

before the dict call?

(dict(reversed(x) for x in enumerate(description)) isn't too bad, btw)

</F>





From http  Tue Oct 11 06:16:52 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 03:16:52 -0700
Subject: Batteries Included?
References: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <slrndkmn
	p9.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<7xwtkk7cmu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1887.1129024880.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xzmpge4tn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

<en.karpachov at ospaz.ru> writes:
> Because you can't run it yourself? If you cannot run the
> freshly-made exe yourself, why would you want to distrubute it,
> without even trying? But if you can, then you can run the InnoSetup
> as well.

Obviously I'd want someone to test the .exe before putting it in wide
distribution.  That doesn't solve the problem of how to make the .exe.


From asma61 at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Oct  6 19:35:16 2005
From: asma61 at dsl.pipex.com (DaveM)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:35:16 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:52:44 -0700, James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu>
wrote:

>Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full monty" or 
>"trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk 
>sounds like gibberish to me for the most part.

Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that British voices
(outside of the movies) are often subtitled, while first-generation
Americans whose English is. um, limited, are not.

Try pretending the British accents are from naturalised US citizens. That
should do the trick.

DaveM 


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 16:07:55 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:07:55 +0100
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510191307s53f1a367h@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 Oct 2005 12:51:02 -0700, pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com
<pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com> wrote:
> So I want to define a method that takes a "boolean" in a module, eg.
>
> def getDBName(l2):
> ...
>
> Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?

Python doesn't really have variables as such. It has objects, which
are typed, and names, which are not.

> Eg.
> x = 10 # makes it an INT

The name 'x' is now bound to an int.

> whereas
> x = "hello" # makes it a string

Now it's bound to a string.

> I take it, the parameters to a function (in the above example "l2") are
> bound in the definition, rather than as invoked.
>
> So, if I use "l2" thus:
>
> if (l2): # only then does it make it a boolean?
>
> and if I did,
>
> if (l2 = "hello"): # would it become string?
>
> and what if I never used it in the definition body?

Now you've lost me. Probably my problem - serves me right for posting
from the pub.

> Elucidate please.

I'll allow a true Python Zen master to do that -
<http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm>.

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct  5 13:24:07 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:24:07 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
	<mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128532725.4560.25.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <di1275$66b$02$1@news.t-online.com>

marduk wrote:

> On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 12:56 -0400, Jonathan LaCour wrote:
>> > class Spam(object):
>> >     cache = {}
>> >     def __new__(cls, x):
>> >         if cls.cache.has_key(x):
>> >             return cls.cache[x]
>> >     def __init__(self, x):
>> >         self.x = x
>> >         self.cache[x] = self
>> >
>> > a = Spam('foo')
>> > b = Spam('foo')
>> >
>> > Well, in this case a and b are identical... to None!  I assume this is
>> > because the test in __new__ fails so it returns None, I need to then
>> > create a new Spam.. but how do I do that without calling __new__
>> > again?
>> > I can't call __init__ because there's no self...
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> Oops, you forgot to return object.__new__(cls, x) in the case the
>> object isn't in the cache.  That should fix it.
> 
> Okay, one more question... say I then
> 
> c = Spam('bar')
> del a
> del b
> 
> I've removed all references to the object, except for the cache.  Do I
> have to implement my own garbage collecting is or there some "magical"
> way of doing this within Python?  I pretty much want to get rid of the
> cache as soon as there are no other references (other than the cache).

Use a weakref.WeakValueDictionary as the cache instead of a normal dict.

Peter



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:29:14 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:29:14 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<0ubgk190ncu25dki8h0ddd3s4fd13bj76k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.29.12.11667@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:44:44 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:38:49 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :
> 
>>Even more invariably, they set the point size directly rather than in
>>relative terms, and they are on Windows, where point sizes are about 20%
>>oversized.
> 
>  that is like giving up Java because there was a bug in the Windows
> JVM. FIX THE BUG.

Only Microsoft can do that. They designed their font system in such a way
that it ignored real typesetters measurements, probably so it would be
deliberately incompatible with font sizes on the Mac. Either that or just
through incompetence. Now, it is almost certainly unfixable in Win9x and
XP -- it would break too many people's Word documents and web pages.
Microsoft could maybe fix it in Vista, if they care too. As if it matters
what they put in Vista.

But that isn't going to stop lusers setting the font size to 5pt or 55pt
just because they think it is kewl. Until we can send fatal electric
shocks through the Internet, there is little we can do to stop that.


-- 
Steven.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct  4 08:35:06 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 12:35:06 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-04, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>> 
>>>>Or you just code without declaring, intending to go 
>>>>back and do it later, and invariably forget.
>>>
>>>What's the problem, the compilor will allert you
>>>to your forgetfullness and you can then correct
>>>them all at once.
>> 
>> 
>> Thiat in fact happens to me all the time and is an annoying aspect of
>> Python.  If I forget to declare several variables in C, the compiler
>> gives me several warning messages and I fix them in one edit.  If I
>> forget to initialize several variables in Python, I need a separate
>> test-edit cycle to hit the runtime error for each one.
>
> Well I hope you aren't suggesting that declaring variables makes it 
> impossible to forget to initalise them. So I don;t really see the 
> relevance of this remark, since you simply add an extra run to fix up 
> the "forgot to declare" problem. After that you get precisely one 
> runtime error per "forgot to initialize".

Declaration and initialisation often go together. So the fixup
to declare is often enough a fixup for the initialisation too.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From apgwoz at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 11:58:17 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 11:58:17 -0400
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <1128255017.708134.49380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<1128249650.166566.81790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1343.1128252067.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128255017.708134.49380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2E811B70-4DD8-4E82-BA31-9B4396682174@gmail.com>

This looks very cool, and i'm sure it's in early stages of  
development (it crashed firefox 1.07 on osx). A question or two.
In the button click example, when I got there, it said I had clicked  
17 times, though I had not clicked.
         Is the application reinitialized on load?
Is it just a python cgi or is running on top of some framework like  
cherryPy?

Regards


On Oct 2, 2005, at 8:10 AM, salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr wrote:

> You are perfectly right ;-)
> And I've been a network technician !!!
>
> I've modified the address, thank you for testing
>
> Regards
>
> Salvatore
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
---
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org




From dreamer at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 09:17:31 2005
From: dreamer at yahoo.com (dreamer at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:17:31 GMT
Subject: Turn $6 Into 15,
	000.oo In 30 Days Or Less Using Paypal 100% Legal!!! "Noreply"
Message-ID: <1130160011_6177@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

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we must first give in order to receive."
Now all you have to do is send $1.00 by way of PayPal to each of the six
email addresses listed below. After setting up your free paypal account and
confirming or verifying YOUR ACCOUNT AND putting (six Dollars) $6.00 into
your Paypal Account use the Account tab on Paypal to send $1.00 to each of
the Names on the List then move the top one and place yours in the #6 spot
on the list of names #1-#6. Remember your name becomes #6.
Make sure the subject of the payment says... *PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR EMAIL
LIST* (this keeps the program 100% legal.. so please don't forget!)
Note: (If you do not see the full email address for the 6 members, just hit
reply to this email and they will show up.)
(Just in case you still haven't opened your PayPal account yet, use this
link to open one in your name), https://www.paypal.com
#1) faithmichelle_mo at yahoo.com
#2) reesefork at yahoo.com
#3) artofficial at grics.net
#4) msw27 at cox.net
#5) fredwdjr at yahoo.com
#6) maintenanceman69 at aol.com
Remember, all of this is ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are creating a service! A
Business? An Email List Service Business
If you have any doubts, please refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1241 of the
United States Postal laws.
STEP #3 - Adding Your Email Address
After you send your six $1.00 payments, it's your turn to add your email
address to the list!
Take the #1) email off the list that you see above, move the other addresses
up one (6 becomes 5 & 5 becomes 4, 4 becomes 3, 3 becomes 2, 2 becomes 1,
your email becomes #6) put YOUR email address (the one used in your PayPal
account) as #6) on the list.
**MAKE SURE THE EMAIL YOU SUPPLY IS EXACTLY AS IT APPEARS IN YOUR PAYPAL
ACCOUNT.**
STEP #4 - Copy Message to 200 Newgroups, message boards,etc?? The Pure Joy
of Receiving PayPal Money!
________________________________________
You are now ready to post your copy of this message, to at least 200
newsgroups, message boards, etc. (I think there are close to 32,000 groups)
All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you
make - as well as everyone else on the list! In this situation your job is
to let as many people see this letter as possible. So they will make you and
me rich!!!! You can even start posting the moment your email is confirmed.
Payments will still appear in your PayPal account even while your bank
account is being confirmed.
HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS & MESSAGE BOARDS
Step #1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own
posting. Simply put your CURSOR at the beginning of this letter and drag
your CURSOR to the bottom of this document, and select 'copy' from the edit
menu. This will copy the entire letter into your computer's temporary
memory.
Step #2) Open a blank 'Notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of the
blank page. From the 'Edit' menu select 'Paste'. This will paste a copy of
the letter into notepad so that you can add your email to the list. Or copy
to a Word Document. and Place in the email upon completion.
Step #3) Save your new Notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your
postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go back to.
Step #4) Use Netscape or Internet Explorer and try searching for various
newsgroups, on-line forums, message boards, bulletin boards, chat sites,
discussions, discussion groups, online communities, etc. EXAMPLE: go to any
search engine like yahoo.com, google.com, altavista.com, excite.com - then
search with subjects like? millionaire message board? or money making
message board? or opportunity message board? or money making discussions? or
business bulletin board? or money making forum? etc. You will find thousands
& thousands of message boards. Click them one by one then you will find the
option to post a new message.
Step #5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message
by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting 'Paste' from the
'Edit' menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees
as they scroll thru the list of postings in a particular group, click the
post message button. You're done with your first one!
Congratulations! THAT'S IT!! All you have to do is jump to different
newsgroups and post away. After you get the hang of it, it will take about
30 seconds for each newsgroup!
REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS AND/OR MESSAGE BOARDS YOU POST IN, THE MORE
MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**
That's it! You will begin receiving money within days!
**JUST MAKE SURE THE EMAIL YOU SUPPLY IS EXACTLY AS IT APPEARS ON PAYPAL.**
Explanation of why it works so well:
$$$$$ NOW THE WHY PART: Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a
very low example). So then I Made $5.00 with my email at #6 on the letter.
Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200
postings, each with my email at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the
original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200
MINIMUM posts with my email at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in
an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the
MINIMUM 200 with my email at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make
an additional $625.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625
persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my email at #2 and they only receive
5 replies that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all
deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my email at #1 and if still 5
persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625.00! With an original
investment of only $6.00! AMAZING!! When your email is no longer on the
list, you just take latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another
$6.00 to emails on the list, putting your email at number 6 again. And start
posting again.
The thing to remember is, thousands of people all over the world are joining
the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now!!
So can you afford $6?? And see if it really works?? I think so? People have
said, what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what
are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users
and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday
and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new
users everyday, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet.
Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work. This really isn't
another one of those crazy scams! As long as people follow through with
sending out $6.00, it works!
With warm wishes, bless you and your loved ones, https://www.paypal.com

 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
    ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------        
                http://www.usenet.com


From jan.niestadt at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 09:10:53 2005
From: jan.niestadt at gmail.com (Jan  Niestadt)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:10:53 -0700
Subject: cell and row
References: <1d987df30510250150mb4f0f97y79d6e93c0c0d66ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<djks42$5fp$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2526.1130232812.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130240414.896875.160600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130245853.600986.36770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Doh, the first example should of cours be:

  b = []
  for x in a:
      if len(x) > 4:
          b.append(x)



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:39:17 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:39:17 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djqc0r$3fd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xhdb35ghc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djqhpm$5oh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     The appeals courts upheld that the trial court did not abuse its
>> discretion. However, both a finding of "yes, Microsoft had a
>> monopoly" and a finding of "no, Microsoft did not have a monopoly"
>> would both have been within the trial court's discretion.

> No, that finding would have been contradictory to the facts at hand.

    How would it have been contradictory to the facts at hand to find that 
OSX competes with Windows?

>> They could just as easily have found that Linux, OSX, FreeBSD, and
>> other operating systems competed with Windows.

> Nice try, but those other OS's did not have enough market share to
> prevent the finding of monopoly under the law.

    That's not what happened. With OSX, for example, the court decided that 
OSX didn't compete with Windows and therefore the market share of OSX was 
not even relevent. OSX could have sold twice as many units as Windows and 
under the court's reasoning, Microsoft would still have been a monopoly.

>>     To call it an "established legal fact" is to grossly distort the
>> circumstances under which it was determined and upheld.

> Who is paying you to post such nonsense?

    That's basically slander.

> If the trial court
> determines a fact and it's upheld on appeal, it's an established legal
> fact regardless of whether you or Microsoft likes it.

    Suppose hypothetically an issue of fact in a case is razor thin, as 
close as it can possibly be. The trial court judge says, "This is as close 
as something can possibly be. A decision of X is basically just as well 
supported as Y. Nevertheless, I will find X". (Assume the court must find X 
or Y and they are contradictory.) The appeals court says that either X or Y 
would be a reasonable finding for the trial court to make since they were 
essentially equally supported, so the decision is upheld. Does this make X 
an "established legal fact" in your mind?

    The trial court had several possible decisions about what the scope of 
the market was to be for purposes of determining what share of the market 
Microsoft had. Obviously, "software" was too large a scope and would result 
in the conclusion that Microsoft has some miniscule percentage of the 
market. "Operating systems that can run WIN32 software natively" was too 
small a scope, and would result in the conclusion that Microsoft had 
basically 100% of the market. However, the choice of the place in-between 
was critical.

    In fact, by the court's definition of the market, Apple is a monopolist 
with OSX. And what are Apple's rules for obtaining OSX wholesale?

    DS




From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Wed Oct  5 12:20:06 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:20:06 GMT
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
Message-ID: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>

I couldn't think of a good subject..

Basically, say I have a class

class Spam:
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.x = x


then if I create two instances:

a = Spam('foo')
b = Spam('foo')

a == b # False

What I *really* want is to keep a collection of all the Spam instances,
and if i try to create a new Spam instance with the same contructor
parameters, then return the existing Spam instance.  I thought new-style
classes would do it:

class Spam(object):
    cache = {}
    def __new__(cls, x):
        if cls.cache.has_key(x):
            return cls.cache[x]
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.x = x
        self.cache[x] = self

a = Spam('foo')
b = Spam('foo')

Well, in this case a and b are identical... to None!  I assume this is
because the test in __new__ fails so it returns None, I need to then
create a new Spam.. but how do I do that without calling __new__ again?
I can't call __init__ because there's no self...

So what is the best/preferred way to do this?



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct  1 00:26:50 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:26:50 +1000
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon [was Re: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum]
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:02:14 -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote:

> axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk writes:
> 
>> I wonder if his postings are related to the phases of the moon? It
>> might explain a lot.
> 
> Yes, it would. Note that the word lunatic is derived from the Latin word
> luna, meaning moon.

Yes, lunatic is derived from luna, but that doesn't mean the two are
connected. The ancients believed a lot of crap (the world is flat, black
people aren't human, thunder is the sound of god's fighting, buying
over-valued dot-com stock is a good investment) and "phases of the moon
affecting behaviour" was one of them.

People are really bad at connecting cause and effect. See this thread for
a simple example:

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=42;t=000228;p=1

A skeptical policeman who says he doesn't actually believe the moon
affects behaviour nevertheless reports that "last weekend" things were
really crazy, and it was a full moon. Somebody writes in to correct him:
no, the full moon is actually "tomorrow".

This shows how cognitive biases can fool us. Even though he was skeptical,
the cop noticed the extra crazy behaviour on this particular weekend, and
manged to fool himself into thinking it matched a full moon.

See here for more details, plus references to research:

http://skepdic.com/fullmoon.html


-- 
Steven.



From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  7 18:28:18 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:28:18 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1725.1128718388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdpab4l7i7ecb@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.1730.1128721878.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11kdtk2t4kksp25@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:

> "What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people?"
> http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_50.html
> A map from a US dialect survey.  Click around for many more questions.

Cool.  While we're on the topic, has anybody else noticed that
"guys" is acceptible and commonly used to refer to a group of
women, but the singular "guy" is never used to refer to a
single woman (and most of the women I've asked think that "gal"
or "gals" is insulting).  Likewise, "dude" is often used when
addressing a female but almost never when speaking about one in
the third person.

> The question was a bit broken, it did not list "all y'all" and its
> most glaring omission was "yous guys"  The Philly responders selected
> the next best option of "yous"
>
> It is a bit odd that You'uns, yins, and yous are confined to Pennsylvania
> and very distinct east-west regions inside PA at that (Pittsburgh vs
> Philly orbits).

Eastern and Western Pennsylvania are practically different
countries when it comes to language and culture.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... The waitress's
                                  at               UNIFORM sheds TARTAR SAUCE
                               visi.com            like an 8" by 10" GLOSSY...


From teale003 at umn.edu  Wed Oct 19 12:27:54 2005
From: teale003 at umn.edu (Brad Teale)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:27:54 -0500
Subject: problem running a python script using apache,mod_python on linux
In-Reply-To: <1129719851.948290.67990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129719851.948290.67990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4356740A.9020106@umn.edu>

Neha,

> I have made the required changes to the httpd.conf file
> ***
> LoadModule python_module /home/ngupta/Apache2/modules/mod_python.so

Did you also add the line:
AddModule mod_python.c

> DocumentRoot "/home/ngupta/Apache2/htdocs"
> 
> <Directory />
>     AllowOverride FileInfo
> </Directory>
> 
> ***
> I m using a .htaccess file placed under Apache2/htdocs/test/
> The .htaccess file has the following code
> **
> AddHandler mod_python .py
> PythonHandler mptest
> PythonDebug On
> **

I didn't see anything else that jumps out.

Brad


From cdkrug at worldnet.att.net  Tue Oct 11 09:25:51 2005
From: cdkrug at worldnet.att.net (Charles Krug)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:25:51 GMT
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <z3P2f.411541$5N3.252222@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:21:18 -0700, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu>
wrote:
>> Iron-
>> Python).  is it still an interpreter if it generates machine code?
> 
> Is what an interpreter?
> 
> I am not very well acquainted with these technologies, but it sounds
> like variations on the implementation of an interpreter, with no
> really compelling distinction between them.  

An important point made by Tannenbaum is this:

Once you have a machine that executes instructions (what he called
hardware or "Level Zero Machine", then you can create higher level
machines that execute code written in the language of that machine.

For the purposes of writing C, for example, we pretend that we have this
magical machine that "runs C code," or more typically, "the machine that
runs (insert OS name) C code."

When the Level n machine isn't fast enough, we go to the level n-1
machine . . . C or Java for us, or assembly, but the model remains valid
until the point where you bump up against the underlying logic gates.

While we don't talk about the "Virtual Machine" the way Java folks do,
Tannenbaum's model is still useful for thinking about such things.



From kent37 at tds.net  Wed Oct 12 21:12:19 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:12:19 -0400
Subject: Python adodb
In-Reply-To: <1129158246.494302.140670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129158246.494302.140670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434db297$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

gt_mac at yahoo.com wrote:
> In trying to use the adodb module, I have had good success. However I
> need to access a database with a username and password at this time.

I have used a connection string like this to connect to MS SQL Server from adodb:
connStrSQLServer = r"Provider=SQLOLEDB.1; User ID=user; Password=passwd;Initial Catalog=Northwind;Data Source=(local)"

HTH
Kent


From adelagon at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 23:27:05 2005
From: adelagon at gmail.com (Alvin A. Delagon)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:27:05 +0800
Subject: Writing python SOAP client
Message-ID: <43570E89.3020505@gmail.com>

Hello python programmers! I would like to add myself to the ever 
increasing number of python users. Here's my first question. I've 
written two SOAP clients using PERL and a PHP. I tried to wirte a new 
SOAP client using python but I'm having problems. First, I can't seem to 
find a good documentation of the SOAPpy module. Second, I found a code 
snippet of a python SOAP client but it was designed only to use the 
SOAPproxy function. How can I create a python SOAP client given these 
parameters:

URI: urn:ECASHWS
HOST: https://hostname/cgi-bin/server.cgi

Here's the PERL snippet that I'm trying to convert into a pythinic language:

my $login = SOAP::Lite
    -> uri ($URL)
    -> proxy ($host)
    -> login($uname, $epwd);
my $result = $login
    ->result;

Help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance and more power to 
python programmers!


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Oct 13 02:56:56 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:56:56 -0700
Subject: TurboGears /.-ed, >new == True< or >new == "True"<
In-Reply-To: <zpydnZSfBe3lctDenZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com>
References: <v7ydnXDyJdoO6dHeRVn-rw@comcast.com>
	<slrndkp9a7.8jl.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<zpydnZSfBe3lctDenZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <QcOdnbh76aKlmNPeRVn-sQ@speakeasy.net>

Andy Leszczynski wrote:

> So how does it correspond to other piece of the code:
> 
> 2	def notfound(self, pagename):
> 3	    return dict(pagename=pagename, data="", new=True)
> 
> new is a boolean here?

It comes through as a CGI query.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Men and women, women and men. It will never work.
   -- Erica Jong


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 26 12:36:59 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:36:59 -0700
Subject: distutils - distributing non-python data files
In-Reply-To: <1130261753.871759.11690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130261753.871759.11690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051026163659.GB2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 25, RickMuller wrote:
> I really appreciate the ease that the distutils make distributing
> Python modules. However, I have a question about using them to
> distribute non-Python (i.e. text) data files that support Python
> modules.

It's not clear from your questions whether this is user-configuration
data for your program, or just data files that your program generates.

If the latter, you might look into pickle'ing.  Often the best place
to look for examples is in your Python distribution itself.  My
cursory scan didn't show much this time, but the Ft module might be
worthy of note.  It installs a Share directory
(.../site-packages/Ft/Share) that contains some XML files.

> Currently when I have data of this type, I parse it into
> python objects and make a python module from it.

Sometimes this is a reasonable approach, and you might get away with
just storing it as Python code with no conversion.  Mailman (and one
of my projects) uses config files that are actually treated as Python
modules.  For configuration data Python is such a readable language
that even users unfamiliar with it can often safely edit a config
file.

> In other words,
> given a data file like
> 
> % cat grocery_list.txt
> eggs
> spam
> cheese
> 
> I would make a data structure like
> grocery_list = ['eggs', 'spam', 'cheese']
> which can be easily imported from a python file, and which the
> distutils installation programs make it easy for me to find on the
> Python path.
> 
> Of course, the data I'm using is much more complex than this, but
> you get the idea.

Then you might consider going to an XML format, and let
SAX/DOM/whatever do the work for you.  Or maybe use the Configuration
Parser <http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/module-ConfigParser.html>,
depending on your needs.

> I'm starting to feel like this is a Bad Thing, because if the data
> file is distributed as a plain text file (e.g. data values in
> columns), I'm putting a barrier to updating the data if I have to
> parse a new file into Python.

Text, binary, columnar, XML... whatever the format, if it changes you
will always be susceptible to changing your parser.

> But I don't know whether there is a better way to include a file
> like 'grocery_list.txt' in my python distutils-distributed module so
> that I can get it from my other python modules?

If it's configuration data not stored within your distribution, you
could have some places to auto-check, e.g.: $HOME/somerc.py,
/etc.  And/or you could support an environment variable.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 08:20:54 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:20:54 +1000
Subject: overiding assignment in module
References: <1130241362.081637.105410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.12.20.53.571597@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:56:02 -0700, Viktor Marohnic wrote:

> Hello.
> I would to do something like this.
> 
> container = []
> 
> p1 = point()
> l1 = line()

Choosing names that look like numbers is terrible practice. Don't use l,
l1, O, ll, and so forth, unless you are trying to deliberately make your
code hard to read, hard to understand, and easy to miss bugs.


> and i would like to override = method of the module so that its puts
> all objects into container.

What do you mean by put all objects into container?

Do you mean:

container = []
container = point()
container = line()

Or do you mean:

container = []
container.append(point())
container.append(line())

Or even:

container = []
container.insert(0, point())
container.insert(0, line())

Or possibly even:

container = []
container.extend(point())
container.extend(line())



> how i can do something like that.

Choose a different language.

There is no assignment method in Python.


-- 
Steven.



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 18:34:05 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:34:05 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xzmprueyg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkujx04.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xwtku1dh4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86br26jkma.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
>> A couple of other things to think about:
>> Are you sure you want to use the C++ model for privilege separation?
> I'm not sure what you mean by the C++ model.  If you mean the Java
> model, as I keep saying, applet sandbox security relies on it, so it
> may not be perfect but it's not THAT bad.  Using it routinely in
> normal applications would be a big improvement over what we do now.
> High-security applications (financial, military, etc.) would still
> need special measures.

I assumed the Java model was based on the C++ model because it seems
that everything in Java is based on C++, and they share the same
vocabulary. If I'm wrong - well, that means you considered another
language already.

Sure, Java might be a big improvement. But Python isn't Java. Rather
than just throwing in something that works, do the legwork to verify
that you're going to propose a best-of-breed solution. If something
perfect is available, wouldn't you feel awful if Python got saddled
with something that wasn't perfectd?

>> Finally, another hole to fix/convention to follow to make this work
>> properly in Python. This one is particularly pernicious, as it allows
>> code that doesn't reference your class at all to violate the private
>> variables. Anyone can dynamically add methods to an instance, the
>> class it belongs to, or to a superclass of that class. 
>
> Yes, Python isn't even type-safe any more:
>
>     class A(object): pass
>     class B(object): pass
>     a = A()
>     print type(a)
>     a.__class__ = B
>     print type(a)    # oops

No, that's not the feature I was talking about. But it is *yet
another* hole you have to deal with.

> IMHO that "feature" you describe is quite inessential in Python.  The
> correct way to override or extend the operations on a class is to
> subclass it.  I can't think of a single place where I've seen Python
> code legitimately go changing operations by jamming stuff into the
> class object.  I'd consider the stdlib's socket.py to be illegitimate
> and it cost me a couple of hours of debugging one night:

Note that you can extend an instance as well as a class, though it's a
bit more baroque to do so. But people use the ability to add a method
to a class dynamically when they want to switch between behaviors for
all objects in the class at run time. Personally, I would use a
dictionary of methods, but I don't see anything particulary wrong with
the latter approach - unless you just dislike dynamic code. Yanking a
feature because it gets misued in one place means we should probably
pre-emptively yank private to keep people from declaring things
private when they shouldn't be.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From lsumnler at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 15:39:45 2005
From: lsumnler at gmail.com (len)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 12:39:45 -0700
Subject: Newbie regular expression ?
In-Reply-To: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128454785.505751.43370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks everyone for your help.

I took the option of f1.lower().startswith("unq").

Len Sumnler



From ms at cerenity.org  Sat Oct  1 17:53:10 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:53:10 +0100
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

Lars Heuer wrote:
>> Oops:
>
>> http://artyprog.noip.org:8080
> 
> 
> Again Oops:  :))
> 
> http://artyprog.no-ip.org:8080

Looks intriguing, but the examples on the site won't work for me. I
suspect they won't for anyone else either, because the code in the
webpages appears to try and contact a server in a private address
space, specifically 192.168.0.40.

Which is a pity, because it looks interesting :-)

Regards,


Michael.


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Oct  4 23:23:23 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:23:23 -0700
Subject: Newbie Text Processing Question
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510042013t1c3854ecg29ae5648cef5a12f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1128481479.661502.14020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<312cfe2b0510042013t1c3854ecg29ae5648cef5a12f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200510042023.24004.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

You can edit a file in place, but it is not applicable to what you are doing. 
As soon as you insert the first "<biblio>", you've shifted everything 
downstream by those 8 bytes. Since they map to a physically located blocks on 
a physical drive, you will have to rewrite those blocks. If it is a big file 
you can do something conceptually similar to piping, where the original file 
is read in line by line and a new file is created:

afile = open("somefile.xml")
newfile = open("somenewfile.xml", "w")
for aline in afile:
  if tests_positive(aline):
    newfile.write(make_the_prelude(aline))
    newfile.write(aline)
    newfile.write(make_the_afterlude(aline))
  else:
    newfile.write(aline)
afile.close()
newfile.close()

James

On Tuesday 04 October 2005 20:13, Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
> That's how Python works. You read in the whole file, edit it, and write it
> back out. As far as I know there's no way to edit a file "in place" which
> I'm assuming is what you're asking?

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 03:13:12 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:13:12 +0100
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
In-Reply-To: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diid2b$51k$2@sea.gmane.org>

black wrote:
> hi all~
> 
> in my .py file there are a few print to trace out some message and i
> wonder if we can save it into a specified file when that script get
> running. if so, i may just check that file to c how the script is
> running. can anyone show me a right direction ?
> 
> one million tks~
> 
On Unix platforms you can run your script with a redirection of the 
standard output:

python myscript.py > somefile.txt &

[The ampersand runs the command in the background]. Then you can monitor 
the content of the output file with

tail -f somefile.txt

which will show you the last part of the file and further additions as 
long as you let the tail command run.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct  7 03:55:16 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:55:16 GMT
Subject: Python, alligator kill each other
References: <1128635767.068104.232190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96E85AC7A5230duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

infidel wrote:
> A 13-foot Burmese python recently burst after it apparently tried to
> swallow a live 6-foot alligator whole, authorities said.
> 
An allegory telling how Python the language really ought to stay slim and 
lean and not get bloated by incorporating lots of features from other 
languages?


From tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk  Tue Oct 25 12:05:07 2005
From: tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk (Matthew Fowler)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:05:07 +0100
Subject: Setup/install issues including site.py
Message-ID: <1130256307.435e57b3bde3f@webmail.sussex.ac.uk>

Hello there

Im trying to port Python 2.4.3 to the Etrax platform, things have been
working but im having some issues I dont get.

if I issue #python I get ...

Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]

(i do get the interpreter prompt)

so I set PYTHONHOME
#export PYTHONHOME=/mnt/flash/Python/lib:/mnt/flash/Python/bin

run python again

#python

and then get this error message:

'import site' failed; use -v for traceback

So you see I get one error or the other.

btw site.py is located in the PATH of the above export and also in the
location of the python binary.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated

Matt


From cj at nowhere.com  Sat Oct  8 01:41:07 2005
From: cj at nowhere.com (CJ)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 05:41:07 GMT
Subject: While and If messing up my program?
References: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Xns96E96D12A6ACcjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>

 
CJ <cj at nowhere.com> wrote in
news:Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom at 127.0.0.1: 

Thanks! I think I've nailed it. I appreciate all the input!



From kasimir.g at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 22:35:41 2005
From: kasimir.g at gmail.com (kasimir.g at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 19:35:41 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129343741.855770.220940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hm... What does this have to do with Perl?

Why did you post this in comp.lang.perl.misc?



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 14:25:00 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:25:00 -0000
Subject: closing sockets
References: <mailman.1453.1128449723.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11k5i2ns09mg0f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <11k5i7sqehd7kc2@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

>> socket.error: (98, 'Address already in use')
>>
>> how can i get around that
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=socket.error%3A+%2898%2C+%27Address+already+in+use%27%29&btnG=Google+Search
>
> The first hit has this link which explains it very well:
>
> http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/Tech/addrinuse.html

And the second hit has a link to exact python spelling of the
solution explained in the first hit:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-April/275088.html

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Send your questions
                                  at               to "ASK ZIPPY", Box 40474,
                               visi.com            San Francisco, CA 94140,
                                                   USA


From mdouma at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 12:21:52 2005
From: mdouma at gmail.com (Michael  Douma)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 09:21:52 -0700
Subject: small outsource project: change host for gnuTellaVision
Message-ID: <1129047712.790049.150680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

This is about a small subcontracting project. This is an interesting
project which produces interactive graphs of the gnutella network. We
are updating a python project written by students at Berkeley a few
years ago. This project is to switch from an out-dated data host to a
new one.

The following is a link to the source code for a python project which
makes radial maps of gnutella hosts:

http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/%7Erachna/courses/infoviz/gtv/source.html

The code theoretically works, and the maps look like this:

http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/~ping/gtv/

But the current code uses gnutellahosts.com. That host is not longer
active. The project is to make this code work again by using a new host
cache. Tasks:

1) Review the code to see the type of data the script requires.

2) Change the host from "gnutellahosts.com" to something else. See:
http://gcachescan.jonatkins.com/
http://loot.alumnigroup.org/

NOTE: There is an alternative version of this project which you can
propose. You can propose bid to instead remove ALL gnutella-related
code, and generate a simple random node structure. We are more
interested in the animation and layout code than the gnutella code.

If you are interested, you can contact me at googlePython at ilibi dot
com , or you can see a posting of this project on the following job
board: http://www.scriptlance.com/projects/1129015210.shtml



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 12:29:18 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:29:18 +0100
Subject: findwindow by its class name
In-Reply-To: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACC6@torexch.metrigenix.com>
References: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACC6@torexch.metrigenix.com>
Message-ID: <djb50q$1od$1@sea.gmane.org>

James Hu wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> For the simple code:
> 
> from wxPython.wx import *
>  
> class MyApp(wxApp):
>     def OnInit(self):
>         frame = wxFrame(NULL, -1, "Hello App")
>         frame.Show(true)
>         self.SetTopWindow(frame)
>         return true
>  
> app = MyApp(0)
> app.MainLoop()
> 
> Is there any way to know this windows' class name? I need to find it by
> win32gui.FindWindow(classname,None) and send msg from another
> application, but not using its title "Hello App".
> MyApp is not the classname, for it couldn't be found by
> FindWindow("MyApp",None).
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance!
> 
I'm not saying it can'ty be done (which is a pity for you, because 
that's usually a cue for someone to contradict me) but it's expecting 
quite a lot of win32gui. A wxPython application is not a windows handle, 
and I suspect you will find that the classname you seek isn't visible 
from inside (wx)Python.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 11:09:05 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:09:05 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1758.1128782947.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>	<Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.1758.1128782947.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <E9SdnYjL06y1fNreRVnzvA@telenor.com>

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 08, 2005 at 01:53:28PM +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:
> 
>>Unless the results stored in the cache are very large data structures, I 
>>would suggest that you simply store (args,kwargs) as the cache key and 
>>accept the hit that sometime you'll cache the same call multiple times.
> 
> 
> ... except that dicts cannot be dict keys
> 
> Another 'memoize' decorator uses this to get the key:
>             kw = kwargs.items()
>             kw.sort()
>             key = (args, tuple(kw))
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/325905
> 
> Jeff

Yeah, but as far as I can see it, this one too fails to recognize 
situations where the function is called twice with essentially the same 
values, except that in one call it uses named arguments:

k1 = fibonacci(100)
k2 = fibonacci(idx = 100)

this is essentially the same call, except the second one uses a named 
argument, which means the function will be invoked and a second cache 
entry will be stored.

Granted, not a big problem in most such cases, but here's my augmented 
function. Bare in mind that I'm 2 weeks into Python so there's bound to 
be room for improvement :)

def cache(fn):
     cache = {}
     arg_names = inspect.getargspec(fn)[0]
     def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
         # If function is called without parameters, call it without 
using the cache
         if len(args) == 0 and len(kwargs) == 0:
             return fn()

         # Work out all parameter names and values
         values = {}
         for i in range(len(args)):
             values[arg_names[i]] = args[i]
         for key in kwargs:
             values[key] = kwargs[key]
         key = tuple([(key, value) for (key, value) in 
sorted(values.iteritems())])

         # Check cache and return cached value if possible
         if key in cache:
             return cache[key]

         # Work out new value, cache it and return it
         result = fn(*args, **kwargs)
         cache[key] = result
         return result

     # Return wrapper function
     return cached_result


-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct  8 16:43:12 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:43:12 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:57:13 -0000, gordonb.u09l7 at burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote or quoted :

>HTML enables a heck of a lot of problems:  "web bugs" in email,
>links to fake sites that appear as real ones in what shows up
>on the screen, Javascript viruses, denial-of-service attacks
>(pages that open two windows when you close one), etc.
>
>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>
>I liken it more to hating all viruses because some of them 
>install keyloggers.

 I take it then you avoid browsers or use Lynx?  No you FIX the
problems rather than wear a hair shirt. Same for email. Why should
rich expressions only be permitted to those with websites.  

Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Oct 13 19:47:10 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 23:47:10 +0000
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <87mzldkmip.fsf@pobox.com>

Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> writes:
[...]
> absolutely preventing me from making the switch. Number one is the  
> lack of a decent command line and command-line environment, and I'm  
> wondering (hoping) if perhaps someone has written a "Python shell"-- 
> something that will look like a regular shell, let users type in  
> commands, maybe have some of the nice features of bash etc. like tab  
> completion, etc, and will then execute an underlying python script  
> when the command is entered. I'm not thinking of IDLE, but something  
> that is really aimed more at being a system terminal, not a Python- 
> specific terminal.
[...]

cmd.exe can be made bearable.  I just got a new machine, so I'll have
to do this myself in the next few days...

0. Make a shortcut to cmd.exe, stick it somewhere get-at-able,
   eg. quick launch toolbar

1. Somewhere under the menu reachable from the little icon in the
   top-left corner you can set the default directory when cmd is
   launched, plus there's some way to set up env vars (eg. PYTHONPATH)

2. Fiddle with buffers to make them sensible sizes (that menu again).

3. Adjust colours to taste (menu again).

4. There's a registry key for tab completion somewhere...

5. Make sure .py is associated with the Python you want


Also see IPython, which does do shell-ish things as well as python-ish
things.



John



From remi at cherrypy.org  Sun Oct 23 11:37:46 2005
From: remi at cherrypy.org (remi at cherrypy.org)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 08:37:46 -0700
Subject: ANN: CherryPy-2.1.0-final released
Message-ID: <1130081866.325710.230470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone,

I am happy to announce the release of CherryPy-2.1.0

If is the result of 6 months of intense development since the
last stable release and the work of a growing number of
contributors.

CherryPy has become increasingly popular these past few months
(the mailing lists now have more than 500 people) and it is
also used in other popular products such as Subway and Turbogears.

This release is a major step forward for CherryPy. It is packed
with new features and bug fixes.

Here are the main improvements in this release:
 - New WSGI interface, which allow CherryPy sites to be deployed on
any WSGI server. People are already running it on mod_python, FastCGI,
SCGI, IIS or CherryPy's own built-in HTTP server.
 - New implementation for sessions, which supports multiple backends
 - Built-in list of convenient "filters" for things like gzip
compression,
XHTML validation, caching, unicode decoding/encoding, authentication,
XML-RPC wrapper, etc ... These filters can easily be enabled/disabled
through configuration.
 - New "development" mode which provides things like autoreload (no
need to manually restart your server when you make a change), logging
of page stats, etc ...
 - Better handling of file uploads
 - Internal implementation now uses generators everywhere (no more
StringIO)
 - New built-in HTTP server implementation

***************
About CherryPy:

CherryPy-2 is a pythonic, object-oriented web development framework.

Here is a sample Hello, World in CherryPy-2:

# import cherrypy
# class HelloWorld:
#     @cherrypy.expose
#     def index(self):
#         yield "<html><body>"
#         yield "Hello world!"
#         yield "</body></html>"
# cherrypy.root = HelloWorld()
# cherrypy.server.start()

Main properties:
- this code starts a multi-threaded HTTP server that dispatches
requests to methods
- requests like "http://domain/dir/page?arg1=va l1&arg2=val2" are
mapped to "dir.page(arg1='val1', arg2='val2')"
- CherryPy also supports "RESTful" URLs like
http://domain/book/science/9
- requests are mapped to an object tree that is "mounted" on
cherrypy.root
(for instance: "cherrypy.root.user", "cherrypy.root.user.remi", ...)
- method must be explicitly exposed with a decorator "@cherrypy.expose"
(or "index.exposed = True" for Python-2.3)

Remi.

http://www.cherrypy.org



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 12:28:20 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:28:20 +0200
Subject: Default argument to __init__
References: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <die4r8$mpl$1@sea.gmane.org>

"netvaibhav at gmail.com" wrote:

> Here's a piece of Python code and it's output. The output that Python
> shows is not as per my expectation. Hope someone can explain to me this
> behaviour:

  /snip/

> Why do myobj1.myarr and myobj2.myarr point to the same list? The
> default value to __init__ for the myarr argument is [], so I expect
> that every time an object of MyClass is created, a new empty list is
> created and assigned to myarr, but it seems that the same empty list
> object is assigned to myarr on every invocation of MyClass.__init__
>
> It this behaviour by design?

it's explained in the FAQ:

    http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-default-values-shared-between-objects

it's also mentioned in chapter 4 of the tutorial:

    http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006710000000000000000

     "*Important warning*: The default value is evaluated only once. This
    makes a difference when the default is a mutable object such as a list,
    dictionary, or instances of most classes. "

    (the text then illustrates this with examples, and shows how to do things
     instead)

and in the description of "def" in the language reference:

    http://docs.python.org/ref/function.html

   "*Default parameter values are evaluated when the function definition
    is executed*. This means that the expression is evaluated once, when the
    function is defined, and that that same "pre-computed" value is used for
    each call. This is especially important to understand when a default para-
    meter is a mutable object, such as a list or a dictionary: if the function
    modifies the object (e.g. by appending an item to a list), the default
    value is in effect modified."

    (the text then shows how to do things instead)

> If so, what is the reason, as the behaviour I expect seems pretty logical.

that only means that you don't fully understand what "def" does (hint: it's
a statement, not a compiler directive).

</F>





From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 17 20:29:36 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:29:36 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<divdik$vmj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <dj1flg$njb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber at 130.133.1.4...

> So you think that MS, based on something that might (or might not
> happen) somewhere in a future, burned a lot of money?

    By the way, this is based on the same flawed premise that a lot of 
post-Y2K griping was based on. It went like this, "wow, we get all concerned 
and spent all this money on a problem that never even happened". Well, 
perhaps it didn't happen because we were all concerned and spent all this 
money on it.

    It is still a realistic possibility that operating systems will be 
commoditized and something other than the end-user's OS will be the target 
for most software development. It could be the language (like Java), the 
server (like the guts of web-based applications), or the browser (like the 
UI of web-base applications).

    Microsoft's current stance is to prevent this from happening if they 
can. If they can't, then they'll try to make sure that whatever they can't 
stop has Microsoft at the heart of it whether that's by "Microsoft 
thin-client OS" or "Microsoft Java" or whatever.

    By the way, if you read my other posts, you can see that I have no 
anti-Microsoft bias. They have every right to have their vision of the 
future of computing and to put their resources behind it. And it's hard to 
find a company whose future vision doesn't include their products in some 
important place. ;)

    DS




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct  2 20:35:45 2005
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:35:45 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>

James A. Donald:
>  > Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
>  > mysteriously fail to work with no error message.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:11:13 -0400, Jean-Fran?ois Doyon 
> No, the error message will be pretty clear actually :)

Now why, I wonder,  does this loop never end :-)
	egold = 0
	while egold < 10:
		ego1d = egold+1


--
http://www.jim.com


From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Sun Oct 23 03:17:29 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:17:29 +0200
Subject: downloading web images 
References: <KqG6f.269292$1i.195859@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <435b395e$0$649$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !

Note :
    urllib2.urlopen    is more fast and more "modern"
    open("myfile.jpg", "wb")    if better for binary

Have a good day.

MCI






From franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at  Thu Oct 27 03:16:38 2005
From: franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:16:38 +0200
Subject: DrPython - auto complete
References: <1130337060.967707.262390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ev0m1d1kllapas3f10tmn97o7h4occdmg@4ax.com>

On 26 Oct 2005 07:31:00 -0700, "jas" <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>  I just started to use DrPython and I have installed the
>CodeCompletion plugin.  I am using DrPython 161 (on windows) with
>wxPython 2.6.1.  Anyhow, when I try something like
>
>x = []
>x.
>
>...it pops up "x.filename", "x.prepend" and "x.word".  Shouldn't it
>show "x.append", "x.pop", etc?
>
>Just curious if anyone else uses this and has this problem.  Or maybe
>the code completion doesn't work like I expect.

Hi, 

definitively a bug, I have forwarded it 
into DrPython Bug Tracker.
-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From lassevk at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 03:17:08 2005
From: lassevk at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 00:17:08 -0700
Subject: While and If messing up my program?
In-Reply-To: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
References: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1128496628.825062.255630@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The specific error in your code, is that when cnto == len(ttllst), then
doing ttllst[cnto] will give you that error.

The list is indexed from 0 to len-1, which means that doing
list[len(list)] will give that error.



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 02:02:21 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 30 Sep 2005 23:02:21 -0700
Subject: how to send a SIGINT to a Python process?
Message-ID: <1128146541.001784.85350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Is there a way to send a SIGINT/KeyboardInterrupt to a
Python process (knowing the pid) that works both on Unix and Windows?

     Michele Simionato



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 25 20:15:24 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:15:24 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <nihtl19j28ue5u7k58lrir0tdfd0lf59rs@4ax.com>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:36:37 +0200, "Peter T. Breuer"
<ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>>     Yes, it certainly is. However, it is also Microsoft's right as a seller 
>> to refuse discounts to those who also sell competing products. You may not

It was not a discount. I was being denied the right to buy from any
wholesaler.  The "deal" MS offered was that I as an independent
retailer had to by ALL my MS OS products retail if I wanted to sell
even one machines without Windows.

That would have been easily enough to put any retailer out of business
if he did not comply.

Even in retrospect, when I kick myself for abandoning my principles,
It would still be a tough decision.

1. I had eight people working for me who would have become unemployed.

2. The city would have lost one of its most ethical retailers.

3. Microsoft would STILL have won.

4. I would have had to put up taunts from people calling me crazy for
destroying my business in what they would see as a vainglorious
attempt to stop the Microsoft juggernaut.

What MS did was put me in a position where felt I had little choice
but to violate my OWN moral code of conduct. That is what has me so
pissed.

It is bad enough to be extorted from. It even worse to be forced into
a racket to extort others.

If any one here considers what MS did acceptable I am glad by their
public stance they have warned others off ever having business
dealings with them because their low standards of conduct.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 03:42:18 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:42:18 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <6eihk1tr0ovtkv5d6ik2lfm7p0i90u0tk5@4ax.com>

On 08 Oct 2005 18:59:39 -0700, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote or quoted :

>
>I read mail over an ssh connection to a Unix shell.  I have no easy
>way to read html email with a graphics browser. 

So the rest of the world should forgo rich communication because of
your obsolete software?  How could anything every evolve with that
attitude?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Oct 13 09:06:11 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:06:11 -0700
Subject: Multiple assignments simplification
References: <1129162253.273873.277050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1989.1129189533.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129208771.377109.217460@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you George Sakkis for your fast and accurate answer. In my life I
am encountering lot of graph-based solutions to my problems. I'll try
to implement your solution as soon as possible.


Fredrik Lundh>working on a Python to C/C++ translator without knowing
what kind of optimizations a C/C++ compiler can do for you sounds like
a great way to waste your time...<

I am not the author of ShedSkin (Mark Dufour), I'm ignorant, he is much
more expert than me about C++. So the possibile waste of time is just
mine.

Some experimental timings have shown me that different C++ compilers
have different optimization capabilities, and such experiments show me
that sometimes they (g++ of MinGW) aren't capable of doing some
"obvious" optimizations (I haven't tested the assignments yet).


Fredrik Lundh>the interesting thing is where the values came from, and
what you're doing with the values later on. minimizing the number of
assignment statements in the swap translation won't change a thing...)<

I see. (It's just a detail, as I've said...)
If you Fredrik have some free time and you are interested, you can
probably help Mark Dufour improve that compiler. You can just email the
author or post things in the Sourceforge site, etc.

Bear hugs,
bearophile



From rsiderits at verizon.net  Mon Oct 10 21:22:37 2005
From: rsiderits at verizon.net (Richard Siderits)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:22:37 GMT
Subject: pyparallel and MAKE controller board for CRYDOM AC/DC switches
Message-ID: <xtE2f.19349$3w.3054@trnddc07>

Greetings.  I am trying to write a small application for controlling CRYDOM 
AC and DC switches from the parallel port using pyparallel.  The project is 
described in the latest issue of MAKE magazine Vol.3 pg 86.  All of the 
examples are in C, VB, Linux, Unix but not a thing in Python.  Seems like a 
perfect application for a Python program or even a simple windowed app. 
Problem is I'm stuck.  How, for example, would I format the setData() to 
turn off data PIN 3?   If I knew that then.. Life, the Universe and 
Everything would be better.

Progress so far:

import parallel, time, ctypes
p=parallel.Parallel(1)
p.setData(0)
p.setDataStrobe(0)
print "Boy are you stuck!"

THANKS for any help!! 




From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 14:33:34 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 11:33:34 -0700
Subject: Typing tutor help script needed, please
References: <1130507926.729061.125850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130524414.324191.233380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

#---Input data

#List of words; every word or sentence on one line
#If from file: WORDS = open(fileName).readlines()
WORDS = """\
Afrikaans
Anna
Bread
red
word
bored
python""".split('\n')

#---Main program
import re

PATTERN         = ['[^(%s)]+','[%s]+']
FILENAME        = ['not_%s.txt','%s.txt']

def filter(letters='bdeor',words=WORDS,contain=True,ignoreCase=True):
    pattern     = PATTERN[contain]%'|'.join(list(letters))
    if ignoreCase:
        allowed = re.compile(pattern,re.IGNORECASE)
    else:
        allowed = re.compile(pattern)
    result      = []
    for word in words:
        match   = allowed.match(word)
        if match and match.group(0) == word: result.append(word)
    print result
    output      = open(FILENAME[contain]%letters,'w')
    output.write('\n'.join(result))
    output.close()



if __name__ == '__main__':
    filter()

---------------
This should do it.

Stani
--
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 09:09:05 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:09:05 +0300
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
In-Reply-To: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net>
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <di0j8t$29ah$1@news.tsua.net>


may be this you will find usefull:

def getLog(logName, fileName = None):

     if fileName:
         hdl = logging.FileHandler(fileName)
     else:
         hdl = logging.StreamHandler()

     fmt = logging.Formatter("%(name)s:\t%(levelname)s:\t%(asctime)s:\t%(message)s")
     hdl.setFormatter(fmt)
     log = logging.getLogger(logName)
     log.addHandler(hdl)

     return log


Thomas Heller wrote:
> I'm about to add some logging calls to a library I have.  How can I
> prevent that the script that uses the library prints
> 'No handlers could be found for logger "comtypes.client"' when the
> script runs?
> 
> I would like to setup the logging so that there is no logging when
> nothing is configured, and no warning messages are printed.
> 
> Thomas


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Fri Oct 14 09:54:35 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:54:35 -0500
Subject: Node Subtree
In-Reply-To: <1129297214.916954.306340@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129297214.916954.306340@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510140854.35469.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Friday 14 October 2005 08:40, Vinci wrote:
> I'm using Python to work on Xml documents importing the minidom
> module: in particular I need to get the whole subtree rooted at a
> given node "n".
>
> Does anyone know whether there is a way to find it with a function
> /class or by importing another module?

Look into the XPath code included in PyXML 
(http://pyxml.sourceforge.net).

- Michael


From could.net at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 07:18:04 2005
From: could.net at gmail.com (could ildg)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 19:18:04 +0800
Subject: py2exe 0.6.3 released
In-Reply-To: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F381630@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>
References: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F381630@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>
Message-ID: <311b5ce10510070418j68307cf1i60473e1db4a486f6@mail.gmail.com>

Nice job~
Thank you.

On 10/7/05, Jimmy Retzlaff <jimmy at retzlaff.com> wrote:
>
> py2exe 0.6.3 released
> =====================
>
> py2exe is a Python distutils extension which converts Python scripts
> into executable Windows programs, able to run without requiring a
> Python installation. Console and Windows (GUI) applications, Windows
> NT services, exe and dll COM servers are supported.
>
> Changes in 0.6.3:
>
> * First release assembled by py2exe's new maintainer, Jimmy
> Retzlaff. Code changes in this release are from Thomas Heller
> and Gordon Scott.
>
> * The dll-excludes option is now available on the command line.
> It was only possible to specify that in the options argument to
> the setup function before.
>
> The dll-excludes option can now be used to filter out dlls like
> msvcr71.dll or even w9xpopen.exe.
>
> * Fix from Gordon Scott: py2exe crashed copying extension modules
> in packages.
>
> Changes in 0.6.2:
>
> * Several important bugfixes:
>
> - bundled extensions in packages did not work correctly, this
> made the wxPython single-file sample fail with newer wxPython
> versions.
>
> - occasionally dlls/pyds were loaded twice, with very strange
> effects.
>
> - the source distribution was not complete.
>
> - it is now possible to build a debug version of py2exe.
>
> Changes in 0.6.1:
>
> * py2exe can now bundle binary extensions and dlls into the
> library-archive or the executable itself. This allows to
> finally build real single-file executables.
>
> The bundled dlls and pyds are loaded at runtime by some special
> code that emulates the Windows LoadLibrary function - they are
> never unpacked to the file system.
>
> This part of the code is distributed under the MPL 1.1, so this
> license is now pulled in by py2exe.
>
> * By default py2exe now includes the codecs module and the
> encodings package.
>
> * Several other fixes.
>
> Homepage:
>
> <http://www.py2exe.org>
>
> Download from the usual location:
>
> <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=15583>
>
> Enjoy,
> Jimmy
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 10 21:17:32 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:17:32 -0400
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <1128969275.804305.193460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128969275.804305.193460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <oPednZskKuQBj9beRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

Harald Armin Massa wrote:
> """
> What is Python?
> 
> Python is an interpreted, interactive, object-oriented programming
> language. It is often compared to Tcl, Perl, Scheme or Java.
> """
> taken from
> http://www.python.org/doc/Summary.html
> 
> maybe someone could update that???

Maybe we should add '''...for some definitions of "interpreted", 
"object-oriented", and perhaps even "interactive". '''

I've seen at least the first two debated endlessly here.

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 24 07:33:19 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:33:19 +0100
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djigpr$oaf$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-21, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
> 
>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>>It would be better if cmp would give an indication it
>>>can't compare two objects instead of giving incorrect
>>>and inconsistent results.
>>
>>If two objects aren't totally comparable, then using 'cmp' on them is 
>>ill-defined to begin with.
> 
> 
> Where is that documented?
> 
> 
>>The Standard Thing To Do is throw an 
>>exception; see the Highly Obscure Case of the Complex Numbers.
>>
>>
>>>>>1 == 1j
>>
>>False
>>
>>>>>1 != 1j
>>
>>True
>>
>>>>>1 < 1j
>>
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
> 
> 
> I would say this is the wrong answer. The right answer should
> be False IMO.
> 
Well in that case it's time to declare Principia Mathematica obsolete. 
The real numbers are a two-dimensional field, and you are proposing to 
define an ordering for it.

This is a snail that really shoudn't be salted at all.

> Especially in the following case do I think the TypeError is
> the wrong answer:
> 
> 
>>>>3 + 0j < 2 + 0j
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
> 
Here you seem to be asking for special-case code to detect complex 
numbers that are on the real line. Mathematically speaking this is an 
infintesimal subset of the complex plane, so you are expecting a lot. 
And presumably next you would argue that "since (3+0j) < (2+0j) returns 
False so should (3+1j) < (2+2j)".

I think you should find something more productive to do with our time. 
And mine ;-)
> 
> Look at sets:
> 
> 
>>>>set([1]) <=  set([2])
> 
> False
> 
>>>>set([2]) <= set([1])
> 
> False
> 
Set orderingd are explicitly documented as being based on proper 
subsetting. This is an abuse of the operators to make subset tests more 
convenient rather than a definition of an ordering.
> 
[...]
The rest of your post does highlight one or two inconsistencies, but I 
don't frankly see yor proposed solutions making anything better.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lycka at carmen.se  Wed Oct  5 08:02:51 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:02:51 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xu0fw75jo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.11645	3@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<434084	3b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99 f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E4	5EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xn	s96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1386.1128357078.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhvvn0$dem$1@wake.carmen.se> <7xu0fw75jo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <di0fdb$gch$1@wake.carmen.se>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> So where are the complex templates and dangerous void pointers in ML?

You're right about that of course. There aren't any templates or
pointers in COBOL either as far as I know, and COBOL has been used
for lots of real world code (which ML hasn't).

I don't know what your point is though.

Sure, Python could have Perl-like declarations, where you just state
that you intend to use a particular name, but don't declare its type.
I don't see any harm in that.

Type declarations or inferred types would, on the other hand, make
Python considerably less dynamic, and would probably bring the need of
additional featurs such as function overloading etc.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct  3 03:49:02 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:49:02 +0200
Subject: Bwidget for tkinter
References: <1128318804.997697.127310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1359.1128320108.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128324299.671382.146480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhqnpf$agg$1@sea.gmane.org>

anil.pundoor at gmail.com wrote:

> thanks u man. i am new to tk inter. i tried installing the lib. but
> while running the demo script am getting following error.
>
> python sam.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "sam.py", line 1, in ?
>     import bwidget, Tkinter, sys, os
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
> line 149, in ?
>     class _Frame:
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
> line 152, in _Frame
>     getframe = makeswidget(getframe, Tkinter.Frame)
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
> line 74, in makeswidget
>     return _wrap(w, f)
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
> line 59, in _wrap
>     oldfunc.func_name, wrapper.func_defaults, wrapper.func_closure)
> TypeError: function() takes at most 4 arguments (5 given)

it's likely that it simply doesn't support Python 2.2 (which was released
in 2001; we've had two major releases since then).

</F>





From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 12:28:12 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:28:12 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <3qid8sFeigdeU1@uni-berlin.de>


> What I *really* want is to keep a collection of all the Spam instances,
> and if i try to create a new Spam instance with the same contructor
> parameters, then return the existing Spam instance.  I thought new-style
> classes would do it:
<snip>

> So what is the best/preferred way to do this?

Use the BORG-pattern. See


http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531

Together with your caching, that should do the trick.

Diez


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 07:25:11 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:25:11 +0100
Subject: cell and row
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510250233x368c1bbfv914e76e7f79cbc26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510250150mb4f0f97y79d6e93c0c0d66ff@mail.gmail.com>	<djks42$5fp$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<1d987df30510250233x368c1bbfv914e76e7f79cbc26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djl4mo$vmv$1@sea.gmane.org>

Shi Mu wrote:
> In the follwoing code,
> Why the result is "'defenestrate', 'window', 'defenestrate', " before
> the original list instead of 'defenestrate', 'window', ?
> 
> 
>>>>a = ['defenestrate', 'cat', 'window', 'defenestrate']
>>>>for x in a[:]:
> 
> ... 	if len(x) > 4: a.insert(0, x)
> ... 	
> 
>>>>a
> 
> ['defenestrate', 'window', 'defenestrate', 'defenestrate', 'cat',
> 'window', 'defenestrate']
> 
The loop cycles over a *copy* of the list (that's what a[:] is, though 
list(a) would also work), and adds any items it finds whose length is 
greater that 4 at the start of the list, which starts out with four 
elements in it.

So it adds "defenestrate" the first time through the loop, nothing the 
second ("cat" is only three characters long), "window" the third and 
"defenestrate" the fourth.

You can do a lot of this kind of playing at the interactive prompt, 
which will answer your questions much more quickly!

For example, run the code with a could of print statements inserted:

  >>> a = ['one111', 'two', 'three', 'four']
  >>> for x in a[:]:
  ...   print "x:", x
  ...   if len(x) > 4: a.insert(0, x)
  ...   print a
  ...
x: one111
['one111', 'one111', 'two', 'three', 'four']
x: two
['one111', 'one111', 'two', 'three', 'four']
x: three
['three', 'one111', 'one111', 'two', 'three', 'four']
x: four
['three', 'one111', 'one111', 'two', 'three', 'four']
  >>>

regards
  Steve

> On 10/25/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> 
>>Shi Mu wrote:
>>
[about list comprehensions, explained by Fredrik]
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From amk at amk.ca  Thu Oct 27 10:22:39 2005
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:22:39 -0400
Subject: PyCon: suggestions for tutorial speakers wanted
Message-ID: <20051027142239.GA5450@rogue.amk.ca>

A planned new addition to PyCon 2006 is a day of tutorials before the
conference; tutorials will cost extra and give attendees a chance to
take a 3-hour introduction to Python (or some other topic) before they
leap into conference-going.

A Call for Tutorials will be posted soon. It'll go to
comp.lang.python.announce as usual, but we'll also send it directly to
various people who do Python training professionally. Which leads to
my request...

Have you taken a Python-related course from a professional who turned
out to be really good? We'd like to know about such people so that we
can send them a copy of the Call for Tutorials. Please let me know,
either here or in private e-mail.

If you're interested in giving a tutorial, you can also express an
interest in order to receive the CFT; just drop me a line and I'll
save your e-mail.  You should plan for a 3-hour session, interrupted
by a break halfway through. Further details and requirements will be
in the CFT when it appears; I'm hoping it'll go out next week.

--amk


From Deshdeep.Singh at honeywell.com  Tue Oct  4 01:33:31 2005
From: Deshdeep.Singh at honeywell.com (Deshdeep, Singh (IE10))
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:03:31 +0530
Subject: Converting C++ array into Python
Message-ID: <9F4FA7B367FAAD4E9D78594B289244FA0146370D@IE10EV801.global.ds.honeywell.com>

I am extending C++ application with python. I am not able to convert a
C++ array in Python. 

 

If anyone has the experience of the below :-

1)       How to handle the C++ array in the Python code and how to input
that from the script ?

 

Awaiting for the solution

 

Regards

DD

 

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From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 04:29:17 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:29:17 +0300
Subject: select.select() on windows
In-Reply-To: <1130249197.810665.272520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130249197.810665.272520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djnepb$31a1$1@news.tsua.net>


you have to use non-block readining.

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-select.html:
A time-out value of zero specifies a poll and never blocks.

jas wrote:
> I am currently using subprocess to execute a command.  Then I read from
> it's stdout...however, this is hanging on a read..waiting for more
> bytes.  So what I would like is to timeout...and select.selec() seems
> to be what I need.  Except I don't have a socket, i have stdout.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to do a timeout like select.select with stdout?
> 
> Thanks
> 


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Oct 12 19:02:53 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:02:53 +0100
Subject: Idle bytecode query on apparently unreachable returns
In-Reply-To: <1129028616.859306.283720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510100013390.9135@urchin.earth.li>
	<1129028616.859306.283720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510122353530.19197@urchin.earth.li>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> [Tom Anderson]:
>
>> What puzzles me, though, are bytecodes 17, 39 and 42 - surely these 
>> aren't reachable? Does the compiler just throw in a default 'return 
>> None' epilogue, with routes there from every code path, even when it's 
>> not needed? If so, why?
>
> Since unreachable code is never executed, there is no performance payoff 
> for optimizing it away.  It is not hard to write a dead-code elimination 
> routine, but why bother?

Fair enough - it wasn't a criticism, i was just wondering if those 
bytecodes were serving some crucial function i hadn't appreciated!

> It would save a few bytes, slow down compilation time, save nothing at 
> runtime, and make the compiler more complex/fragile.

I have this vague idea that a compiler could be written in such a way 
that, rather than dead code being weeded out by some 
extra-complexity-inducing component, it would simply never be generated in 
the first place; that could perhaps even be simpler than the situation at 
present. I have tree reduction and SSA graphs frolicking in soft focus in 
my imagination. But, that said, i have no experience of actually writing 
compilers, so maybe this SSA stuff is harder than it sounds!

tom

-- 
That's no moon!


From timothy at open-networks.net  Sun Oct  9 19:12:13 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:12:13 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <4349A3CD.8030603@open-networks.net>

Terry Hancock wrote:

>On Thursday 06 October 2005 11:57 pm, Timothy Smith wrote:
>  
>
>>i try to run my app and i get this
>>
>>%python DutyShift.py
>>error
>>
>>thats it. thats the error. mya pp was previously working, and i did make 
>>some fairly large changes to it, but i'd expect a more descriptive 
>>message then just "error". anyidea where i need to start looking?
>>    
>>
>
>By looking at the source code for DutyShift.py?
>
>  
>
well DUH thank you captain obvious! i ment what KIND of code error would 
make it flip out like that.
FAYI i have already found it and it was a wrongly indented code block :/



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 15 20:22:52 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:22:52 GMT
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<netek1d5kdd3g2f3s83pjjh31cfhuf61cs@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43519c5b.99283111@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 07:55:59 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:24:35 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
><steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> declaimed the following in
>comp.lang.python:
>
>> I think where the people are getting confused is that it is (arguably)
>> acceptable to use "their" in place of "his or her", as in:
>> 
>> "Should the purchaser lose their warranty card..."
>>
>	It gets even stranger...
>
>	"One should be prompt in mailing their warranty registration"

That comes after parents buy some toys for their children, and the
children have posession of both the toys and the associated warranty cards.

Of course if one is a parent who worries about warranties in a circumstance such as this,

	"One should be prompt in mailing their[1] warranty registration"

[1] The childrens' ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gagenellina at softlab.com.ar  Wed Oct 26 04:24:16 2005
From: gagenellina at softlab.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 01:24:16 -0700
Subject: Pickle to source code
Message-ID: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello

I want to convert from pickle format to python source code. That is,
given an existing pickle, I want to produce a textual representation
which, when evaluated, yields the original object (as if I had
unpickled the pickle).
I know of some transformations pickle/xml (Zope comes with one such
tool, gnosis xml is another) so I believe I could build something based
on them.
But I dont want to reinvent the wheel, I wonder if anyone knows of a
library which could do what I want?

Thanks,
Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 21 23:48:00 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:48:00 +1000
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.03.48.00.137827@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:26:43 -0700, hagai26 at gmail.com wrote:

> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
> in a str, like this:
> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
> I know I can use spilt and than join them
> but I can also use regular expressions
> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one

Efficient for what?

Efficient in disk-space used ("least source code")?

Efficient in RAM used ("smallest objects and compiled code")?

Efficient in execution time ("fastest")?

Efficient in program time ("quickest to write and debug")?

If you use regular expressions, does the time taken in loading the module
count, or can we assume you have already loaded it?

It will also help if you specify your problem a little better. Are you
replacing one word, and then you are done? Or at you repeating hundreds of
millions of times? What is the context of the problem?

Most importantly, have you actually tested your code to see if it is
efficient enough, or are you just wasting your -- and our -- time with
premature optimization?

def replace_word(source, newword):
    """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
    return newword + " " + "".join(source.split(None, 1)[1:])

import time
def test():
    t = time.time()
    for i in range(10000):
        s = replace_word("aa to become", "/aa/")
    print ((time.time() - t)/10000), "s"

py> test()
3.6199092865e-06 s


Is that fast enough for you?


-- 
Steven.



From quiteblack at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 21:44:54 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (black)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 18:44:54 -0700
Subject: are there internal functions for these ?
Message-ID: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi all~

i wrote some functions for copying and moving files caz' i didnt find
concret functions within the doc. but i think these operations are
simple and important so there may be some internal ones i didnt know.
anyone could figure me out ? 

tks~



From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 19:45:30 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:45:30 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com> <Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
	<tluik1ttskfsqb175v3gma36848liub5da@4ax.com>
	<86ek6ul1c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<3h2rk1t88f5pvpc9smmrid93fae3pcop4p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <868xwywb8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:25:46 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>>The downside is that I have no idea how many people try to contact me
>>out of the blue, or from an address other than the one I sent mail to,
>>but don't bother to answer the response. 
> This is why I wanted a protocol where that was automated.

Um - I don't recall seeing anything in you plan that would provide
information I'm missing. I'm sure you could tweak the software to
collect it once it were in place. But I could do the same.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  3 10:25:45 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:25:45 +0100
Subject: Finding the Process Path
In-Reply-To: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62190@hqemail2.spss.com>
References: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62190@hqemail2.spss.com>
Message-ID: <dhrf14$en5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peck, Jon wrote:
> Thanks, but this doesn't tell me what I am looking for.
> 
> I am looking for the path for the current process (which will not be the Python interpreter).
> 
Actually the core image will be that of the Python interpreter.

> I see, though, that this is available as sys.executable
> 
The interpreter? That's correct.

What you probably want is

import os, sys
print os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])

this will give you the path to the Python script the interpreter is running.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 04:54:42 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:54:42 +0200
Subject: Question on class member in python
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1129624952.836150.159520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4mjkh.163t6yf4f20krN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:

> But I still wonder what's the difference between the A().getMember and
> A().member besides the style

Without parentheses after it, getMember is a method.  The difference
between a method object and an integer object (which is what member
itself is in your example) are many indeed, so your question is very
strange.  You cannot call an integer, you cannot divide methods, etc.


Alex


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 10 15:41:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:41:59 -0400
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <861x2t2m7s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
> I agree that there are many shades of grey here, but there's also a
> real black that's sharply distinct and easy to find -- real native
> code binaries are not interpreted.

Except when they are. Many machines are microcoded, which means your
"real native code binary" is interpreted by a microcode program stored
in the control store. Most machines don't have a writeable control
store (WCS), so you generally can't change the interpreter, but that's
not always true. In the simple case, a WCS lets the vendor fix
"hardware" bugs by providing a new version of the microcode. In the
extreme cases, you get OS's in which the control store is part of the
process state, so different processes can have radically different
formats for their "native code binaries".

Then there's the Nanodata QM-1, whose microcode was interpreted by
"nanocode".

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 01:28:53 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 22:28:53 -0700
Subject: best Pythonic way to do this sort: Python newb
In-Reply-To: <ABm2f.3394$gj1.2075@fed1read05>
References: <rQl2f.3390$gj1.199@fed1read05>
	<7xbr1y9e1c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ABm2f.3394$gj1.2075@fed1read05>
Message-ID: <1128922133.075274.110260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

(sorted is a built-in function in 2.4)

def myFunction( data ):
    """ Take one of your set of 3, grab [2] (the 3rd) and do calcs,
return value """
    "do some math calculations to data[2]"
    return "result of calculations"

sorted_list = sorted(myList, key=myFunction)

List is sorted in the order of the 'key' values, key being a value
returned from myFunction which operates on [2].



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 11:55:38 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:55:38 +0200
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1699.1128698816.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128699338.667416.56250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di65ps$b4f$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:

> No doubt you're right but common sense dictates that membership testing
> would test identity not equality.

what does "common sense" have to say about this case:

>>> L = ("aa", "bb", "cc", "dd")
>>> S = "a" + "a"
>>> L
('aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd')
>>> S
'aa'
>>> S in L
# True or False ?

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 03:19:59 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:19:59 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
Message-ID: <dja4qp$m2i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>>Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to 
>>>store global state information for all instances of a class. These are 
>>>set by a classmethod as in the following
>>>
>>>class sup(object):
>>>     cvar1 = None
>>>     cvar2 = None
>>>
>>>     @classmethod
>>>     def setcvar1(cls, val):
>>>         cls.cvar1 = val
>>>
>>>     @classmethod
>>>     def setcvar2(cls, val):
>>>         cls.cvar2 = val
>>>
>>>     @classmethod
>>>     def printcvars(cls):
>>>    print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
>>>
>>>Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I 
>>>override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this 
>>>class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:
>>>
>>>class sub(sup):
>>>     cvar1a = None
>>>
>>>     @classmethod
>>>     def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
>>>         cls.cvar1a = vala
>>>         sup.setcvar1(val)
>>>
>>>     @classmethod
>>>     def printcvars(cls):
>>>         print cls.cvar1a
>>>         sup.printcvars()
>>>
>>>This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.
>>>
>>>However, if  I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call 
>>>sub.setcvar2(val) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no 
>>>longer identical to sup.cvar1!
>>>
>>>In particular,
>>>     sub.setcvar1(1,10)
>>>     sub.setcvar2(2)
>>>     sub.printcvars()
>>>prints
>>>   10
>>>   1 None
>>>
>>>i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
>>>but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None
>>>
>>>This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?
>>>
>>
>>You are experiencing this problem because you are using hard-wired class 
>>names. Try using (for example) self.__class__. That way, even if your 
>>method is inheroted by a subclass it will use the class of the object it 
>>finds itself a method of. No need to use classmethods.
> 
> 
> The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the 
> class itself, before I've made any instances.
> 
I see. I think. So what you are saying is that when you call 
sup.printcvars() from inside a sub method you want it to see the 
namespace of the sub class not the sup?

Since you have set all this up carefully you must have a use case, but 
it seems a little contorted (to me). Basically you appear to want the 
classes to behave statically the way that instances do dynamically?

Not sure I can help you here.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 12:24:03 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:24:03 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <1128783587.402068.54400@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1128762184.908604.267760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128783587.402068.54400@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510080924m1b1dc22dm5515be0f14f3048c@mail.gmail.com>

[Alex Martelli]
>>> try it (and read the Timbot's article included in Python's sources, and the
>>> sources themselves)...

[Kay Schluehr]
>> Just a reading advise. The translated PyPy source
>> pypy/objectspace/listsort.py might be more accessible than the
>> corresponding C code.

[cfbolz]
> indeed. it is at
>
> http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/dist/pypy/objspace/std/listsort.py

While the Python version is certainly easier to read, I believe Alex
had in mind the detailed English _explanation_ of the algorithm:

    http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Objects/listsort.txt

It's a complex algorithm, dripping with subtleties that aren't
apparent from staring at an implementation.

Note that if a list has N elements, sorting it requires at least N-1
comparisons, because that's the minimum number of compares needed
simply to determine whether or not it's already sorted.  A heap-based
priority queue never requires more than O(log(N)) compares to push or
pop an element.  If N is small, it shouldn't make much difference.  As
N gets larger, the advantage of a heap grows without bound.


From entropy at domain.invalid  Sun Oct 23 08:37:57 2005
From: entropy at domain.invalid (entropy)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:37:57 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>

axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote...
> In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> > "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
>  
> >> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
> >> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
> >> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
> >> property, only they call it "property tax".
>  
> >    I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to 
> > live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me 
> > know.
> 
> Why would you say that - Mike Meyer made a point to which you have
> obviously no answer. Or do you deny that his comments on this matter
> of property are true?

Methinks David simply missed that Mike was being facetious.  (Irony 
and facetiousness don't translate well into print, as Frank Zappa 
once noted.)


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Tue Oct 18 12:54:35 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:54:35 GMT
Subject: wxPython + pyPlot
References: <dj2ptf$aqb$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<dj2thb$qrp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<NN75f.2002$dO2.171@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<dj35kg$53l$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <fN95f.2021$dO2.1151@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

My mistake, I understood plot (as in "from wx.lib.plot import *" that comes
with wxwidgets and which does have a demo)

Sorry,

Philippe


Robert wrote:

> Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> 
>> I think wxWidget comes with a sample
>> 
>> Philippe
> Yes I use it, but there is not a sample with pyplot.
> 
> Robert



From martijn at gamecreators.nl  Tue Oct  4 09:48:03 2005
From: martijn at gamecreators.nl (martijn at gamecreators.nl)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:48:03 -0700
Subject: ssh or other python editor
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1439.1128433407.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1439.1128433407.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128433683.342113.32060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

- I'm a newbie at freeBSD so I think there is , but I don't know where.
And i'm using putty on a windows OS what don't understand the syntax
coloring.



From runlevelten at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 19:01:20 2005
From: runlevelten at gmail.com (Ten)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:01:20 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510170001.41926.runlevelten@gmail.com>

>     Q: Are you confident enough to bet your wifes and daughters for
> what you say?
>
> A: No. But I put my reputation in.
> -------
Hang on...

...

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Your "reputation", sir, is of import only to billy-goats who happen to be
debating whether to cross the bridge today.

Thanks for once again polluting the threads with incoherent, unhelpful,
off-topic flamebait.

The extra 9 squillion posts in a thread you clearly had no intention of
participating in must really have made your day.

Downloading them has not, as you might gather, made mine :P

--

Ten
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From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Wed Oct 19 07:12:57 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:12:57 -0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org><3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org><3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>	<mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list@python.org><3rlj78Fjsu7mU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2244.1129711847.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3rmh1uFk236lU1@individual.net>

> > Another possible scenario I have in mind is to control the Internet
browser
> > directly from a Python script using DHTML as a language for definition
of
> > appearance and specification of necessary data processing of in the
browser
> > displayed UI. This way the Internet browser and HTML with JavaScript can
be
> > considered an UI toolkit for use in Python.
> > Hope with this above to have got Python back on topic.
> >
> That is, I suppose, a possibility, but you certainly can't claim it
> would be platform-independent.
I haven't seen any really platform-independent software yet and I don't
expect to see any in the future.
It is simply not possible to have one, even if much progress was done lately
in many areas in order to try to approach it as close as possible.

Claudio

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.2244.1129711847.509.python-list at python.org...
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
> > "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list at python.org...
> >
> >>Claudio Grondi wrote:
> [...]
> >>>>>Do I miss here something?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>While you are correct in saying (I paraphrase) that HTML interfaces
> >>>>nowadays can offer a rich graphical interface, it can be quite
difficult
> >>>>to manage state maintenance between the two components (web server,
web
> >>>>client) in the system.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The cause of confusion here is, that HTML interfaces don't necessary
> >
> > need a
> >
> >>>web server and HTTP to work. I mean, that Internet Browsers
> >>>have an API which allow access to them directly, so they can be used
> >
> > without
> >
> >>>a server as a kind of GUI library supporting widgets programmed
> >>>in HTML and JavaScript  (I haven't used them yet in this form, but I
> >
> > think
> >
> >>>it should be no problem - right or not?).
> >>>
> >>
> >>You are perfectly correct that interfaces can be programmed in the
> >>browser. As has already been said, with the adoption of standards like
> >>CSS2, it's even possible to make such stuff run across multiple browser
> >>platforms (at the moment, though, just try writing an interface that
> >>makes table rows appear and disappear in a cross-browser fashion: you'll
> >>find the stylesheet techniques you need to use for Mozilla and IE are
> >>very different). But this doesn't help you at all if you are trying to
> >>interface to Python logic.
> >>
> >>>>A "proper" GUI runs all functionality inside a single process, and
> >>>>allows much easier control over complex interactions, creation of
> >>>>dynamic dialogues, and so on.
> >>>
> >>>Complex and dynamic is in my eyes possible with HTML and JavaScript, so
> >
> > I
> >
> >>>still don't see where is a problem with this approach. I have
programmed
> >>>already a HTML and JavaScript driven server platform and know about
(the
> >>>solvable) problems with the back-button and sessions (it is sure not
the
> >>>easiest way of programming a GUI).
> >>>The only disadvantage of not using plugins or Java is, that real time
> >>>interactions are not possible, but this is in my eyes usually not the
> >>>requirement for a standard kind of GUI with no gaming, no Virtual
> >
> > Reality
> >
> >>>and no timing of user response down to milliseconds (but consider, that
> >
> > with
> >
> >>>a good speed of connection it is even possible to play blitz chess over
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>Internet).
> >>>
> >>
> >>So, back to the subject: with an HTML/Javascript interface, how do you
> >>propose to bolt Python logic into the same process? Or do you admit that
> >>the application that interacts with such an interface either has to be
> >>all JavaScript or in a separate process?
> >
> > I haven't used it in such configuration yet, but I mean, that it is not
a
> > bad idea to use local DHTML files (i.e. HTML with JavaScript) combined
with
> > a Python driven HTTP server like e.g. Karrigell which makes it possible
to
> > access local files by executing Python scripts triggerred by demand
raised
> > by submitting to it DHTML form data resulting from user input.
> > So mixing JavaScript in local DHTML files for performing what can be
done
> > with JavaScript inside HTML and a HTTP server capable of executing
Python
> > scripts will do the job which JavaScript alone can't because of lack of
> > access to the local file system and another parts of the computer system
on
> > which such kind of UI is executed.
>
> Indeed. But this again partitions the problem into client functionality
> and server functionality residing in two separate processes, albeit on
> the same computer, with the previously-mentioned state maintenance
> problems. This issue isn't new, you know.
>
> > Another possible scenario I have in mind is to control the Internet
browser
> > directly from a Python script using DHTML as a language for definition
of
> > appearance and specification of necessary data processing of in the
browser
> > displayed UI. This way the Internet browser and HTML with JavaScript can
be
> > considered an UI toolkit for use in Python.
> > Hope with this above to have got Python back on topic.
> >
> That is, I suppose, a possibility, but you certainly can't claim it
> would be platform-independent. Unless you know of some common control
> interface respected by both Internet Exploder and Firefox ;-)
>
> regards
>   Steve
> -- 
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/
>






From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Thu Oct 20 14:05:15 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:05:15 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <rr2l23-4em.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc T Beck <Tracy.Beck at infineon.com> wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
>> > news:33sj23-6om.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
>>
>> >> Not if they abuse a monopoly position in doing so, which is where we
>> >> started.
> [snip]
>> O/ses on PC platforms, as determined by the courts. Thanks to their
>> initial agreement with IBM, and subsequent nasty tactics.


> So what I'm getting here is, that they abused their monopoly power to
> secure their initial deal with IBM.

No - they got the deal with IBM when they were a garage startup. 

Later they burned off competing dos's for the IBM PC via nasty tactics
(like making their programs fail to run on drdos). When they got the
monopoly position via those tactics, then they got PC makers to pay
them for windows, whether windows went on the box or not, r else they
charged them impossible prices for the o/s.

Your argument is "anybody would have done that". Other companies have
tried that sort of trick, and it's been illegal too.  Google for it -
don't take the word of us non-legal non-business people.
 
Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 14:23:18 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:23:18 +0000
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.31.15.58.47.813776@virgilio.it>
References: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1130768592.010756.97890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.31.15.58.47.813776@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <dk5qv6$v6s$1@sea.gmane.org>

Francesco Bochicchio wrote:
> Il Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:23:12 -0800, dakman at gmail.com ha scritto:
> 
> 
>>And yet the stupidity continues, right after I post this I finnally
>>find an answer in a google search, It appears the way I seen it is to
>>create a class for each button and have it call the method within that.
>>If anyone else has any other ideas please tell.
> 
> 
> This is  how I do it: Supposing I have three buttons b1, b2 and b3, and I
> want for each button to call the same callback with, as argument, the
> button itself:
> 
> 
> def common_callback(button):
> 	# callback code here
> 
> 
> class CallIt(objetc):
> 	def __init__(function, *args ):
> 		self.function, self.args = function, args
> 	def __call__(self, *ignore):
> 		self.function(button, *self.args)
> 
> b1['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b1)
> b2['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b2)
> b3['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b3)
> 
> This way you need only one class (a sort of custom callable) and
> its instances gets called by Tkinter and in turn calls your
> callback with the proper arguments.
> 
I don't see why this is preferable to having the callback as a bound 
method of the button instances. What's the advantage here? It looks 
opaque and clunky to me ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 09:05:06 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:05:06 GMT
Subject: Looking for client+server sample code (httplib and/or urlib)
References: <Y356f.3062$dO2.1886@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <6I56f.3067$dO2.2902@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

I have found what I needed ... in one of my books :E)

Philippe


Philippe C. Martin wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Are there such samples/tutorial out there ?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Philippe



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 01:00:19 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 22:00:19 -0700
Subject: String code required please
References: <1129263625.991136.236320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129266019.425880.84520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

import os
fileName = os.path.basename(absolute)
base, ext  = os.path.splitext(fileName)

Stani

http://pythonide.stani.be



From nephish at xit.net  Thu Oct 27 12:39:32 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 09:39:32 -0700
Subject: how do i run another script from my python script
Message-ID: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

hey there all,
i have been looking for a way to run a php command line script from my
python script.

here is what i want to do:

if x = 4:
    execute php4 testin.php
else:
    execute php4 testout.php

and i also need the script to wait untill the php4 script is done
(which i think is the default ) before continuing to run.

i know this is possible, but how?
thanks



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 20 21:57:38 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:57:38 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>
	<dj56ba$2oe$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<d8uel1ldn28q45ka1mrb2ep26cvmmuv6pq@4ax.com>
	<uNM5f.153113$RW.59193@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.20.13.46.50.253609@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<XyU5f.5227$tV6.3045@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <dj9hui$vl3$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:XyU5f.5227$tV6.3045 at newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

> An employee who refuses to act as directed, claiming that he's thinking of 
> the shareholders' interests, can be fired for cause.  His only recourse 
> would be to become a shareholder (not hard), and then get the attention of 
> either the board or a large block of shareholders (much harder).  If 
> management is actually breaking the law (say by Enron-like looting) rather 
> than simply making decisions he considers suboptimal, he can also go to 
> the authorities, but he does this in his capacity as private citizen; his 
> status as employee gives him no additional rights or responsibilities in 
> this respect.

    A shareholder (whether employee or not) who feels that management is not 
acting in the interests of all shareholders can file a derivative action (a 
form of lawsuit). This is supposed to prevent management for acting in the 
interests of the larger shareholders at the expense of the smaller ones. 
(Which is really easy if more than half the stock is owned by a single 
entity.)

    DS




From bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au  Mon Oct  3 09:52:38 2005
From: bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:52:38 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Reply-To header
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhrd36$191$1@rose.polar.local>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote:
> [Andrew]
> > Is it just me, or does python-list at python.org not send with a
> > Reply-To header?
> 
> It's not just you.  I don't get one either.

Excellent! That leaves the Reply-To field free for its intended use:
to give the return address for an individual reply to the message
author.

-- 
 \       "What I resent is that the range of your vision should be the |
  `\                              limit of my action."  -- Henry James |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Oct 24 01:03:17 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 22:03:17 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <86ll0j7mrh.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232346320.24000@urchin.earth.li>
	<86ll0j7mrh.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1130130197.248680.256270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for all the answers, some people have already answered for me
about most details I don't agree :-)

Mike Meyer>Rexx has a global control that lets you set the number of
digits to be considered significant in doing an FP equality test.<

Mathematica too, I think.


Tom Anderson>There are all sorts of solutions, coming at the problem
from different angles, but the end of it is more or less here:<

Interesting, but I think in Python the recursive solutions cannot be
used, because they are too much fragile (they break with not much
nested levels), an iterative solution (using a stack) can manage enough
levels before finishing the memory ("not much" and "enough" are
relative things, I know... but there is probably a difference of 10**4
times still). Note that statistically most real-life structures to
flatten are probably quite flat (the most common are probably of depth
2), so probably the non recursive solution is the better again :-)
Another problem with such solutions is that they don't allow to define
what to iterate over and what to not consider a sequence. This is
probably easy to define with an input parameter. (A compromise solution
is probably enough, without a fully general solution for this problem).
Another interesting possibility (suggested from Mathematica Flatten[]
syntax) is to add another parameter to specify how much levels to
flatten (all levels, only the first k levels, or all levels but the
last n levels), but maybe this last parameter can be a bit less easy to
remember, and Python functions are designed to be very easy to
remember.

Bye,
bearophile



From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 20:41:06 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 17:41:06 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <m2fyrc51c5.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
	<mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128698792.787399.160460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86psqhnrx4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1128727042.273430.64640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<m2fyrc51c5.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
Message-ID: <1128732066.947274.206270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi Dan,

It works, it's elegant, and it uses python strengths.

I guess I have to settle the question of who my audience is. That is
who do I want to make it readable for.

All the solutions so far require some python specific knowledge, and
there are some which are horendous even at that.  Perhaps less
dependency in this reagrd, the better.  Perhaps not.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct  7 04:55:24 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:55:24 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3qmrfrFfocu8U2@uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
>>In other words, you want Python to be strongly-typed, but sometimes
>>you want to allow a reference to be to any object whatsoever. In which
>>case you can't possibly do any sensible type-checking on it, so this
>>new Python+ or whatever you want to call it will suffer from the same
>>shortcomings that C++ and java do, which is to say type checking can't
>>possibly do anything useful when the acceptable type of a reference is
>>specified as ANY.
> 
> 
> Let's see if I understand what you're saying:
> 
>     C and Java: you get useful type checking except when you declare
>     a reference as type ANY.  This is a shortcoming compared to:
> 
>     Python: where you get no useful type checking at all.
> 
> That is not very convincing logic.

No, he said that this typechecking wouldn't make sense in the case of 
ANY being used. And the plethorea of ClassCastExceptions and Segfault 
proves the point :)

Diez


From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Tue Oct 25 04:48:13 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:18:13 +0530
Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1DA8@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


Your python script is not getting executed.
I guess there is something wrong with the server configuration.



#-----Original Message-----
#From: Philippe C. Martin [mailto:pmartin at snakecard.com]
#Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:27 AM
#To: python-list at python.org
#Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
#
#Hi,
#
#The following code outputs the actual HTML text to the browser, not the
#interpreted text.
#
#Any idea ?
#
#Regards,
#
#Philippe
#import cgi
#import logging
#import auth #this is the one you must implement (or use SCF ;-)
#
#html_ok = """
#Content-Type: text/html\n
#<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
#"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">\n
#<html>\n
#<head>\n
#  <title>Access Granted</title>\n
#  <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Quanta Plus">\n
#  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=koi8-r">\n
#</head>\n
#<body>\n
#    <H1>Access Granted</H1>\n
#<HR>\n
#    <H4>Welcome %s </H4>\n
#<HR>\n
#</body>\n
#</html>\n
#"""
#
#html_nok = """
#"Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
#<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
#"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
#<html>
#
#<head>
#  <title>Access Granted</title>
#  <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Quanta Plus">
#  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=koi8-r">
#</head>
#<body>
#    <H1>Access Denied</H1>
#<HR>
#
#
#</body>
#</html>
#"""
## DISPLAY ACCESS DENIED PAGE
#def Failure():
#    print html_nok
#
##DISPLAY ACCESS GRANTED PAGE
#def Success(p_data):
#    print html_ok % (p_data)


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 17 02:25:18 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 02:25:18 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86vezwzmlt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     As for it being illegal, it was illegal only because if was Microsoft 
> doing it.

Actually, *any* company with a defacto monopoly pulling such a stunt
would be found in violation of the law. Such companies operate under
different legal rules than other companies. This was true when IBM was
the company that was dancing with the DOJ, and it'll be true long
after MS is nothing more than a memory.  I don't know if anyone has
spelled this out to MS, but IBM was told so in no uncertain terms.

> And the only reason it was illegal for Microsoft was because
> Microsoft was deemed to have a monopoly

And that's not at all clear. The thing is, if MS didn't have a
monopoly, their strong-arm tactics wouldn't have worked. If the
companies in question actually had other choices, they would have
laughed at MS's offer. The reality was that if they wanted to stay in
business, they had no choice but to take whatever MS offered them. It
isn't the offer that's illegal; it's the tools used to get the offer
accepted that are illegal. Selling insurance is only illegal if you
hint that someone is going to need it if they don't buy it from you.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 18:45:30 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 15:45:30 -0700
Subject: Newbie needs help. Setting PYTHONDOCS to read HTML.
In-Reply-To: <L-qdnTPH8fMZrdbeRVn-gA@comcast.com>
References: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>
	<1128995462.893750.155420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<L-qdnTPH8fMZrdbeRVn-gA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1129070730.596978.199710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

That's because the Python docs come zipped up within a folder, for
example:

python_docs.tar.bz2 has a folder inside it called Python-Docs-2.4.2.

You need to have C:\Python24\Python-Docs-2.4.2\ as the value if thats
where that folder is, or wherever you unzipped it.  I, personally, just
took all the directories out of Python-Docs-2.4.2 and put them in
C:\Python24\Doc and then added C:\Python24\Doc as the value for
PYTHONDOCS.

Hope that made sense.



From email at christoph-haas.de  Sat Oct  1 17:44:28 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 23:44:28 +0200
Subject: Printing and prompting adds a mysterious extra space
In-Reply-To: <1128197861.418869.221640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1324.1128191337.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128197861.418869.221640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051001214428.GA22491@torf.workaround.org>

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 01:17:41PM -0700, mensanator at aol.com wrote:
> Christoph Haas wrote:
> > I'm writing a simple interactive program to maintain a database.
> > The goal was to print "> " at the beginning of the line, wait for
> > user input and then deal with it. Minimal test program:
> >
> > import sys; print ">", ; print sys.stdin.readline()
> >
> > However when I run the program and enter "foobar" it looks like this:
> >
> > ./test.py
> > >foobar
> >  foobar
> > ^----------- where does this space come from?
> 
> Another question you could ask is: why is there NO space after
> the '>'? Have a look at this.
> [...]
> So it looks like the space was sitting in the output buffer.

Yes, probably. But how do I get that buffer flushed? I tried
sys.stdout.flush() after the print statement but it wasn't printed,
either. I probabl need something like...

print "> "+

instead of

print ">",

How could I solve that decently?

 Christoph
-- 
I'm still confused - just on a higher level now.
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 05:55:01 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 05:55:01 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 04:44:25 -0000, gordonb.7vhwj at burditt.org (Gordon
> Burditt) wrote or quoted :
>
>>And how do you fix the problem of unsolicited USENET articles?
>>(*ALL* of them are unsolicited to someone).  Or unsolicited
>>email?  
>
> Read my essay.
> http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
>
> I talk around those problems.

Actually, you present a design that forces a solution that makes them
do what you want down their throats, never mind what they want, or
what they've been doing. It shows an amazing ignorance about the
internet and how people behave on it. Like most antispam proposals, it
won't actually stop spam, just force spammers to concentrate on
different channels. You seem to have randomly broken quoting for
people who download mail and read it offline, and for any medium
that's unreliable or doesn't reliably deliver messages "in order" -
which includes mail and news.  Virus writers will love the ability to
change peoples address books remotely. The problem of differing
character sets is technically solved. Practically, the solution
doesn't work because people implementing the software ignore the
standards. What's your server going to do when it gets messages with
characters in them that aren't valid in the charset that it's declared
as being? Better yet, what's it going to do when the characters are
valid, but the declared charset isn't the one the author actually
used? You implementation sketch only covers the client talking to the
first server (in that it requires the client to encrypt a challange
phrase with the private key belonging the email id, which is
presumably what 2822 uses for the envelope sender). Most mail on the
internet goes through at least two servers, and news is much
worse. For instance, your messages apparently passed through 10
servers getting to me. You really have to deal with store and forward,
or convince a large number of corporations that potentially hostile
users should be allowed to talk directly to their mail servers, which
isn't very likely. Kudos for recognizing that spam needs to be dealt
with by people with guns, but you lose half of them for making ISPS
liable for it.

I also read the comment about wanting an automated "Ask them to run my
browser in my favorite configuration", which is equally naive. A lot
of sites have such cruft on them already. I find them funny - I surf
the web on three different platforms, none of them Windows. Any
pointer to download a new browser or plugin for Windows just impresses
me with the authors lack of skills. The only browser I know of that
runs on all three platforms is Opera, and it's something radically
different on one of the three. Even should you get the platform right,
almost nobody is going to bother upgrading following the download
links. The very small percentage of users who are real geeks will
silently thank you for the notice, and update their software. Most
users will ignore it so long as the page isn't obviously broken. For
those for whom it's broken, all but small percentage will simply find
some other site to visit. I'd suggest that anyone thinking about writing

> It requires a fresh start.

You think you're the only person - and probably not the first - to
propose such? People a lot smarter than either of us, with a lot more
pull and a lot more reason to want it to happen have worked on this -
and it ain't happened yet. I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime
soon.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 13 02:20:37 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:20:37 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<srtik1d92f827rt0s0aemi5a63fiocl6s2@4ax.com>
	<86achikzg5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<p72rk1trqov3c50gl7fdn8k8suihqgl0js@4ax.com>
	<86d5mawbb7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <jeurk155ph1n8qkc94h2cprtcbg1adaql0@4ax.com>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:43:56 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Yup, you solved an easy problem - designing a spam-proof email
>system. That's been done any number of times. The hard part is a
>deployment strategy that will actually get the world to transition to
>such a system. That's why earlier nearly identical proposals got
>rejected - nobody could come up with a workable transition plan.
>Without a transition plan, a better email system is only of academic
>interest - and not even much of that at this late date.

The big problem with any new system would be it cannot communicate
with others. So presumably your clients need to talk both old and new
protocols.  Just say, YES, you need the old mail system too, but you
will find yourself using it less and less.

So how do you promote it given that you can't talk to everyone with
it?

1. confidentiality. -- All is encrypted. Sell it as something for
confidential intra-corporate communications.  This just happens
transparently.  This means you CAN'T accidentally reveal a company
secret by bungling the software or forgetting to encrypt.

2. faster -- presume both ends are online 24-7. Do everything 8-bit
transparent, compressed prior to encryption. All decrypting and
compressing/decompressing is transparent.

3. prestige -- for people whose time is too valuable to deal with
spam.  Perhaps clients are designed so someone else can deal with
giving and revoking permissions for you and prioritising your mail.
The riffraff are not on this net, only those with certificates, people
of distinction.  Software in designed so a secretary can monitor and
manage several other VIP's mail.

Recall that there were intra-net emails long before the Internet.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  2 19:35:15 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:35:15 -0400
Subject: Automating, Building, Testing and  Deploying to Production Server
References: <1128288243.694287.134210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86y85blcgc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"yoda" <nochiel at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Guys,
> I've been used to deploying code to the production server by checking
> out of subversion and manually sorting out any kinks. (yes, I know, it
> sounds primitive)

Actually, it sounds like your test/development environment is
primitive.  There shouldn't be any "kinks" to sort out by the time you
check things out on the production server.

> How do you automate the process?

I do what you do - except I use perforce instead of svn, and automate
things. There's a development branch, a test branch, and a production
branch for each project. Developers can check things into the
development branch, and integrate from development to test. QA folks
can integrate from test to production. There are daemon processes
running on the test and production servers that do "p4 sync" ("svn up"
to you) once a minute, thus automatically installing new code on the
appropriate server. The QA folks "sort out the kinks" on the test
server, so that the production server doesn't suffer outages from the
development process.

> What tools do you use and how?

Perforce and the python wrapper for same. And of course Python.

> What documentation is available for the various tools?

Bundled with the tools, and on their web sites for perforce and the
wrapper. Lots for Python, all over the place.

> What is the best, easiest, most automated, method that provides robust
> versioning and easy rollback?

The perforce web site has some white papers on "best practices". I
read those - especially the one on web server software - then
implemented what I described above.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de  Fri Oct 28 17:26:22 2005
From: stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de (Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:26:22 +0200
Subject: newstyle classes and __getattribute__
Message-ID: <4362977f$0$7227$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Hi there,
I'm facing some strange things - but maybe only me is strange - anyway...

i wrote the following code:


+++
class T(object):
	def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
		self.name=name
		self.port=port
+++

looks fine - to me.

Now I can do:


 >>> t = T(name="test",port=8080)
 >>> print t
<__main__.T object at 0x00BE36D0>

 >>> print t.name
test
 >>> dir(t)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', 
'__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', 
'__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__', 
'name', 'port']

Everything ok.

Now, I do this:

class T(object):
	def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
		self.name=name
		self.port=port
	def __getattribute__(self,key):
		if key=='somekey':
			return None

where

 >>> dir(T)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', 
'__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', 
'__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__']

is ok, also.

But, then surprise:
 >>> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
 >>> dir(t)
[]

What the hell is going wrong here ?
I'm running Python 2.4.2 from python.org on Windows XP SP2, all patches 
applied.

Thx in advance.



From durumdara at mailpont.hu  Wed Oct  5 05:55:08 2005
From: durumdara at mailpont.hu (durumdara at mailpont.hu)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:55:08 +0200
Subject: Quick help needed: how to format an integer  ?
Message-ID: <4343A2FC.6060106@mailpont.hu>

Hi !

I need to convert some integer values.

"1622" ->"1 622"

or

"10001234" -> ""10.001.234""

So I need thousand separators.

Can anyone helps me with a simply solution (like %xxx) ?

Thanx for it: dd

Ps:
Now I use this proc:

def toths(i):
    s=str(i)
    l=[]
    ls=len(s)
    for i in range(ls):
        c=s[ls-i-1]
        if i%3==0 and i<>0:
           c=c+"."
        l.append(c)
    l.reverse()
    return "".join(l)





From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct 10 19:01:23 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:01:23 -0500
Subject: convert char to byte representation
In-Reply-To: <11kld1jrulcri13@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434AB205.8000304@websafe.com> <11kld1jrulcri13@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <hOidnRrCJ71eb9feRVn-qw@comcast.com>

I've always read it written that the number that is returned by
ord(c) is the "decimal" (not hex, not octal) representation of
the ASCII/UNICODE character that is stored in memory location
pointed to by variable c.  While the result is an integer (as
it couldn't really be anything else), I believe that most
character charts list the number that ord() returns as the
"decimal representation" of that character (as they normally
also show the octal and hex values as well).

Probably an "old school" answer on my part.

-Larry Bates

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-10, Larry Bates <larry.bates at websafe.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a string with
>>>its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a char into its byte
>>>representation. This is to calculate the nmea checksum for gps data.
> 
> 
>>ord(c) gives you decimal representation of a character.
> 
> 
> While ord(c) is what the OP needs, it doesn't give a decimal
> represention -- which I guess would be a string like "65" for
> the ASCII characer "A".  What ord() gives you is an integer
> object with the value of the character [which the hardware
> stores in binary on all of the platforms I'm aware of].
> 


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Oct 12 12:50:05 2005
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:50:05 +0200
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zy84y67r1.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
	<1129133752.747652.246050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zu0fm66uf.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
	<1129134751.371726.86030@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <s9zpsqa65oi.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>

"Java and Swing" <codecraig at gmail.com> writes:

> char *foo(const char *in) {
>     char *tmp;
>     tmp = (char *) malloc((strlen(in) * sizeof(char)) + 1);
>     strcpy(tmp, in);
>     ...
>     ...
>     free(tmp);
>     return someValue;
> }
>
> Is that appropriate?  I was under the impression that when you malloc
> memory, you free it when done.

Looks fine.  I hope someValue does not point somewhere into the tmp
buffer, though.

> I also have things like...
>
> char *bar(char *in) {
>     char *results, *finalResults;
>     results = (char *) malloc(...);
>     finalResults = results;
>
>     while (...) { *results++ = some_val; }
>
>     return finalResults;
> }

Seems OK, too, assuming the results buffer is big enough.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 19 06:09:49 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:09:49 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <5q6cl1d5n3h0rpgts4i0ejdpunpdkg72e0@4ax.com>

On 19 Oct 2005 09:41:09 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be>
wrote or quoted :

>As far as I understand you, the company should ship the faulty model.

This is what they do.  However, I find it odd people seriously
suggesting that is the way society SHOULD run.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Tue Oct 11 20:49:29 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:49:29 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128794785.152776.116370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051008233140.77ad2c2e@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128941251.054780.324900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051010203829.55c3e4b0@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128991719.628161.54290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051012024929.6e58ae95@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

I was implicitly referring to Python/C model for this.
I'm aware that Python can be very slow on heavy computations (it's a
_documented_ shortcoming), sometimes much slower than Simulink.

I believe that no current technology can meet the needs of both rapid
prototyping (for projects in their infancy) and performance (for
projects in their industrial cycle).

That's why, as it is _documented_ and _recommended_ on the Python
website, I intend to first prototype with Python then slowly migrate
some critical parts to C/C++ as we refine and stabilize the specs.
Ideally, at the end of the project, we'll have the best of both worlds.

Note that it's the first time that I try this, I may be a perfectly
wrong approach for continuous system simulation...

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 10 Oct 2005 17:48:39 -0700, "hrh1818" <howardrh at westerncom.net> wrote
:

> In your simulator how much do you want Python to do?  I ask this
> because your subject title implies you want to write your simulation
> code in Python but a  simulator written entirely in Python would be
> very slow.  Python is an interpreted language and pure Python code is
> not suitable for simulating big  continuous systems. Hence to me it
> appears you have two distinct proplems. One is developing a front end,
> a user interface, that is easy to use. The other is either finding or
> writing a good code compiler that wlll produce fast simulation code or
> writing an interface to existing optimize simulation code.  Although
> most likely not suitable for your applicaion but a good example of
> this type of program is Mathematica. It is written in two parts a user
> interface and a kernel that does all of the high power math.
> 
> Howard
> 
> 
> Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> > > I am aware of some shortcomings and design flaws of Simulink,
> > > especially in the code generation area. I am interested by
> > > your paper nonetheless, please send me copy.
> >
> > Ok no problem. Let me just a few days to strip any irrelevant data
> > on it...
> >
> > > However, Simulink is used by many people on a day-to-day basis
> > > in the context of big, industrial projects. The claim that it
> > > is "next to unusable" is, in my book, an overstatement ...
> >
> > Well the exact sentence is "next to unusable for our kind of
> > projects". You'll see the details on the paper, but I'm not joking.
> > For instance, under Simulink, our model is so big (well not so, but
> > too big for Simulink obviously), that you may have a loss of up to
> > 40x in performance compared to the model in C (how to optimize the
> > Simulink model is a whole other subject in itself). So to make it
> > usable, we have to use automatic code generation wich bring a whole
> > new set of problems... BUT our work is *very* specific, and I'm not
> > talking about Simulink in general. It may be perfect suited for
> > others, it's just that for us it's far from perfect...
> >
> > > Scicos is not perfect either but you can hardly say that is
> > > is a simple clone of Simulink. No time and space to go into
> > > the details ...
> >
> > I wasn't in charge of evaluating Scilab/Scicos, so I can only talk
> > about the conclusion : main motives to switch to Scilab/Scicos would
> > be because it's free, that's all. Report said that next to almost
> > everything Scilab/Scicos does, Matlab/Simulink can do, and more
> > often than not, do it much better.
> > So if you have a different report, I would be happy to read and
> > transmit it...
> >
> > > Obviously, the python community is very dynamic, but how much
> > > support will you get in the very specific topic of continuous
> > > time systems simulation ?
> >
> > Well some people already offered me their help. But I believe
> > that someone _has_ to begin alone some day...
> > Otherwise people who work on continuous system simulation would
> > never be interested in Python.
> >
> > That's the beauty of open source : do what you can, but do it ! and
> > hope that someone else will come one day and use your work to build
> > upon it. Step by step you will have something usable (in theory).
> >
> > > IMHO, an hybrid approach, such as the development of bridge
> > > to include Python components into Simulink/Scicos/Ptolemy/
> > > Modelica/pick_your_favorite_simulator may grant you more
> > > interest from the simulation community.
> >
> > I already know some bridges like pymat or mlabwrap and I agree that
> > a way to include Python to Matlab/Simulink would be a great step.
> > But :
> >
> > 1) I think that it's Mathworks job to do it, and if they don't want
> > to do it, we'll never have a very good integration.
> >
> > 2) For our kind of projects and our kind of developers (mainly
> > non-IT engineers), I'm very reluctant to introduce too many
> > different technologies in a project. If we decided to go for Python,
> > fine, let's do the entire thing in Python/C. If we decided to go for
> > Simulink, fine, let's do the whole thing in Simulink/Matlab/C.
> > Matlab, for algorithms, can do almost the same things than Python
> > and sometimes much better, so if you have already Simulink (and so
> > have the license) why go for Python and struggle to have a good
> > integration ?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > SB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> > > > Simulink is well fitted for small simulators, but when you run
> > > > into big projects, I find many shortcomings appears which made
> > > > the whole thing next to unusable for our kind of projects.
> > > > That's why I'm interested in Python by the way, it is not a
> > > > simple clone like Scilab/Scicos. It is a real language which
> > > > bring its own advantages, and its own shortcomings, which I find
> > > > well suited for our activity.
> > > >
> > > > If you want, I can send you a paper I wrote last year, detailing
> > > > all Simulink shortcomings. I doubt that this mailing list is
> > > > interested in such things...(and it's in French...).
> > > > Concerning Scilab/Scicos, I'm not really interested in a
> > > > technology primarily developed (INRIA and ENSPC) and used by
> > > > France. Python and all its libraries and communities are so much
> > > > more dynamic ! And also I've heard that Scilab was developed in
> > > > Fortran in a way which make it rigid and that the sources are
> > > > poorly documented, not a good sign for an open source software
> > > > (and Scilab isn't 'Free' for the FSF).
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > > >
> > > > On 8 Oct 2005 11:06:25 -0700, "S?bastien Boisg?rault"
> > > > <Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com> wrote :
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Simulink is a framework widely used by the control engineers
> > > > > ... It is not *perfect* but the ODEs piece is probably the
> > > > > best part of the simulator. Why were you not convinced ?
> > > > >
> > > > > You may also have a look at Scicos and Ptolemy II. These
> > > > > simulators are open-source ... but not based on Python.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > SB
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nicolas Pernetty a ?crit :
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Phil,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes I have considered Octave. In fact I'm already using
> > > > > > Matlab and decided to 'reject' it for Python +
> > > > > > Numeric/numarray + SciPy because I think you could do more
> > > > > > in Python and in more simple ways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Problem is that neither Octave, Matlab and Python offer
> > > > > > today a framework to build continuous system simulator (in
> > > > > > fact Matlab with Simulink and SimMechanics, do propose, but
> > > > > > I was not convinced at all).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com
> > > > > > wrote :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nicholas,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe
> > > > > > > it can talk to Python.
> > > > > > > Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including
> > > > > > > having ODE solvers. I have successfully used it to model
> > > > > > > and simulate simple systems. Complex system would be easy
> > > > > > > to model as well, provided that you model your dynamic
> > > > > > > elements with (systems of) differential equations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> 


From pje at telecommunity.com  Tue Oct  4 11:48:07 2005
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 08:48:07 -0700
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<*firstname*nlsnews-B3B8C2.18033703102005@news.verizon.net>
	<1128435341.708873.244050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128440887.371702.275900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

leo wrote:
>
> You're absolutely right, in fact the code snippet from my OP was taken
> directly from inspect.currentframe. We're intending on using this in
> production, and I'm trying to gauge what the implications may be.

Use sys._getframe() instead; it doesn't raise an exception.


> Wow, I was unaware of this. If Python internally uses exceptions, maybe
> they aren't as detrimental as I thought.

Exceptions raised from C code and caught by C code use considerably
less resources, so a "for" loop catching a StopIteration raised by a
built-in iterator will have better performance than Python code
catching an exception raised in Python code.  So, it's not necessarily
the case that the "for" loop scenario matches your scenario(s).  Always
measure.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 04:18:32 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:18:32 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Torsten Bronger <bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de> writes:
> > Because everybody is capable of running a JS engine, even on
> > computers on which you don't have rights to install something.
> 
> I don't think using JS so heavily without a compelling reason is
> really in the WWW spirit.  Lots of browsers don't have JS.  And lots
> of JS is so annoying that some users like to turn it off even in
> browsers that have it.

I don't have the exact numbers, and I'm pretty certain they'd be
confidential if I did, but I believe the factors you mention (browsers
completely lacking JS, and users turning JS off), *combined*, still
allow JS-rich interfaces to run for well over 95% of visitors to our
sites.  Maybe that's the key difference between the mindset of a
mathematician and that of an engineer -- I consider reaching over 95% of
visitors to be _quite good indeed_, while you appear to disagree because
of "WWW spirit" issues.  Is making a rapidly responsive site (not
requiring roundtrips for every interaction) a "compelling reason"?  It
seems to me that it is -- and why else would one use ANY Javascript,
after all?

My one issue with the JS/AJAX mania is that I really dislike JS as a
language, particularly when you take the mixed mongrel dialect that you
do need to reach all the various browsers and releases needed to make
that 95% goal.  But, alas, there is really no alternative!-(


Alex


From http  Fri Oct 14 12:09:16 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:09:16 -0700
Subject: Using SRP on TCPServer module
References: <1129305692.176959.82170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xoe5skrmb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
> Now that you know what I have, I would like to add SRP functionality to
> the validation of each new connection.
> What I need to add to my code to get SRP to work? I don't know where to
> start. The docs are poor.

I don't know of a Python SRP module that only does SRP.  I've been
thinking of writing one.

TLSLite (http://trevp.net/tlslite) implements SRP as an extension to
TLS.  Maybe it's what you should be using instead of just sending
cleartext through TCPServer.  Connecting up TLSLite to TCPServer is
pretty straightforward and I think there's an example in the TLSLite docs.


From dan at wolf.com  Wed Oct 26 14:07:33 2005
From: dan at wolf.com (Dan M)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:07:33 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3.4, Berkeley db 1.85, db file format not recognized
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.26.18.07.26.892076@wolf.com>

I'm working on a script that will interface with sendmail on my FreeBSD
box. I'm trying to read my access.db file (yes, it's for a quick and dirty
SMTP-after-POP application). I'm trying:

import bsddb
bsddb.hashopen("access.db")

but I get:
bsddb._db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- access.db: unexpected file type or format')

This suggests to me that my bsddb is too new. I really don't want to
rebuild sendmail with a more current db, as I'm afraid of breaking
sendmail. Any suggestions on how to read this file?
 
FWIW, "file access.db" returns "access.db: Berkeley DB 1.85 (Hash, version
2, native byte-order)"



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Tue Oct 11 03:55:07 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:55:07 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <7xslv87bvs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1881.1129015416.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv87bvs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <434B6FDB.4050603@designaproduct.biz>

Paul Rubin wrote:

>Laszlo Zsolt Nagy <gandalf at designaproduct.biz> writes:
>  
>
>>This is a bit offtopic here. I read the RFC and I do not see why SRP
>>is not vulnerable to dictionary attacks.
>>If I have a working client software then I can use it to reveal
>>passwords. Isn't it a dictionary attack?
>>    
>>
>
>Dictionary attack in this context means an eavesdropper records a
>session, then compares all the hashed passwords against a word list
>offline.  If the attacker is allowed to make unlimited online queries,
>then he can guess at SRP passwords too.  But the host should notice
>that and prevent it.
>  
>
I see. So the eavesdropper records the random strings and the password 
hash value sent.
Having these values, he can try to find a suitable password in his list 
that will result in the same communication.
He can do this without having to connect to the server again, just by 
replaying the algorithm for a given password
(and the same 'random' strings).

The difference in SRP is that the random strings are private, they will 
never be sent over the network.
So they cannot be eavesdropped. Cracking SRP would require to calculate 
the dividers of a product of
two very big primes (like in RSA). This is why it is hard to use 
dictionary attacks - you cannot replay the
algorithm for a given password.

Thank you, I think I understand now.

   Les





From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 08:58:49 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 05:58:49 -0700
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
In-Reply-To: <7xbr21zf63.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1128687060.102240.56040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xbr21zf63.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128689929.511059.310170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Yeah, I wonder though how much of that is a result of Python's
> cavalier approach to multiple inheritance.  Does that happen much in
> CLOS?  In Java because of multiple interfaces?  I've studied Flavors a
> little and mix-ins were used in some extensive ways, but maybe
> programs using them required extra care.

I don't think Python approach to multiple inheritance is cavalier (you
may want
to clarify that statement). In CLOS multiple inheritance is less of a
problem
since (multi)methods are defined outside classes. One could argue that
using classes also as a scope-control mechanism (i.e. doing the job of
modules) is an abuse.

> The Python tutorial does caution against indiscriminate use of
> multiple inheritance.  I tried coding something without it, wished
> that I'd used it and did so in the next version, but still am not sure
> if I gained anything or not.

Nowadays I tend to use delegation via __getattr__ instead of multiple
inheritance.

            Michele Simionato



From mclay at localhost.localdomain  Fri Oct 28 11:25:15 2005
From: mclay at localhost.localdomain (Robert McLay)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:25:15 GMT
Subject: Is bytecode machine (in)dependent?
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.28.15.25.11.507114@localhost.localdomain>

I'm trying to understand bytecodes generated on different machines.
I understand that the bytecodes can change between version.  But since
I'm told that .pyc files are version dependent but not machine
dependent, I'm wondering why the bytecodes are machine dependent.

my friend and I created this simple example to explore the problem.
The example code is:

   #!/usr/bin/env python
   #
   import sys, os

   def main():
     x = 1.234
     print x

   if ( __name__ == '__main__'): 
     main()


Using sib.py from Vendorid 1.0 generates different bytecodes under linux
and sgi.  At its core sib.py is using:

        # Compile the code using prefix and marshall it.
        compiled_code = compile(source_code, prefix, 'exec')
        marshalled_code = marshal.dumps(compiled_code)

to get the bytecodes.

So why are the byte codes different?  Is it that the intel-linux is
little endian and the SGI is big endian and the numerical constant
(1.234) is stored different depending on the endian-ness?


This was generated under intel-linux using python 2.4.2




     /*==========================================================================*/
     /* Frozen main script for test                                              */
     /* Generated from test.py                                                   */
     /* This is generated code; Do not modify it!                                */
     /*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
     unsigned char M___main__[] =
     {
         99,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2,0,0,0,64,0,0,
         0,115,55,0,0,0,100,0,0,107,0,0,90,0,0,100,
         0,0,107,1,0,90,1,0,100,1,0,132,0,0,90,2,
         0,101,3,0,100,2,0,106,2,0,111,11,0,1,101,2,
         0,131,0,0,1,110,1,0,1,100,0,0,83,40,3,0,
         0,0,78,99,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,
         67,0,0,0,115,15,0,0,0,100,1,0,125,0,0,124,
         0,0,71,72,100,0,0,83,40,2,0,0,0,78,102,5,
         49,46,50,51,52,40,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,0,120,
         40,1,0,0,0,82,0,0,0,0,40,0,0,0,0,40,
         0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,104,111,109,101,47,118,             /* This line */
         112,97,114,114,47,115,105,98,47,116,101,115,116,46,112,121,
         116,4,0,0,0,109,97,105,110,5,0,0,0,115,4,0,
         0,0,0,1,6,1,116,8,0,0,0,95,95,109,97,105,
         110,95,95,40,4,0,0,0,116,3,0,0,0,115,121,115,
         116,2,0,0,0,111,115,82,2,0,0,0,116,8,0,0,
         0,95,95,110,97,109,101,95,95,40,3,0,0,0,82,4,
         0,0,0,82,2,0,0,0,82,5,0,0,0,40,0,0,
         0,0,40,0,0,0,0,82,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,
         0,63,3,0,0,0,115,6,0,0,0,18,2,9,4,13,
         1,
     };  x

 And under SGI (python 2.4.2) it created :

    /*==========================================================================*/
    /* Frozen main script for test                                              */
    /* Generated from test.py                                                   */
    /* This is generated code; Do not modify it!                                */
    /*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
    unsigned char M___main__[] =
    {
        99,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,2,0,0,0,64,0,0,
        0,115,55,0,0,0,100,0,0,107,0,0,90,0,0,100,
        0,0,107,1,0,90,1,0,100,1,0,132,0,0,90,2,
        0,101,3,0,100,2,0,106,2,0,111,11,0,1,101,2,
        0,131,0,0,1,110,1,0,1,100,0,0,83,40,3,0,
        0,0,78,99,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,
        67,0,0,0,115,15,0,0,0,100,1,0,125,0,0,124,
        0,0,71,72,100,0,0,83,40,2,0,0,0,78,102,5,
        49,46,50,51,52,40,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,0,120,
        40,1,0,0,0,82,0,0,0,0,40,0,0,0,0,40,
        0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,87,111,114,107,47,118,              /* This line */
        112,97,114,114,47,115,105,98,47,116,101,115,116,46,112,121,
        116,4,0,0,0,109,97,105,110,5,0,0,0,115,4,0,
        0,0,0,1,6,1,116,8,0,0,0,95,95,109,97,105,
        110,95,95,40,4,0,0,0,116,3,0,0,0,115,121,115,
        116,2,0,0,0,111,115,82,2,0,0,0,116,8,0,0,
        0,95,95,110,97,109,101,95,95,40,3,0,0,0,82,4,
        0,0,0,82,2,0,0,0,82,5,0,0,0,40,0,0,
        0,0,40,0,0,0,0,82,1,0,0,0,116,1,0,0,
        0,63,3,0,0,0,115,6,0,0,0,18,2,9,4,13,
        1,
    };


The difference between the two is very slight:

18c18
<     0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,104,111,109,101,47,118,
---
>     0,0,0,0,116,23,0,0,0,47,87,111,114,107,47,118,




From kylotan at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 05:04:38 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 02:04:38 -0700
Subject: select.select() on windows
In-Reply-To: <1130249197.810665.272520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130249197.810665.272520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130317478.650628.83610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


jas wrote:
> I am currently using subprocess to execute a command.  Then I read from
> it's stdout...however, this is hanging on a read..waiting for more
> bytes.  So what I would like is to timeout...and select.selec() seems
> to be what I need.  Except I don't have a socket, i have stdout.
>
> Any suggestions on how to do a timeout like select.select with stdout?

I am not too familiar with any asynchronous I/O facilities in Python
beyond select, so in your situation I would use the threading module,
with the blocking read in one thread and your time-out in the main
thread. You could perhaps use an Event object here, which has the
time-out functionality for you.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From cs at totallybogus.com.invalid  Fri Oct 14 10:30:07 2005
From: cs at totallybogus.com.invalid (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:30:07 -0500
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
Message-ID: <1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


> XPN (X Python Newsreader) is a multi-platform newsreader 
> with Unicode support. 
> ....
> You can find it on:
>
>     http://xpn.altervista.org/index-en.html
>
>     http://sf.net/projects/xpn>
>
> Changes in this release:
> ....

Cousin Nemesis ....

  Are the new xpn 5.5 config & data files compatible
  with the older xpn 5.0 files ?

  Can I install the newer xpn version
  and move the older data files into it
  without reconfiguring & reloading data files ? 
 
      o config.txt
      o server_logs.dat
      o dats 
      o groups_info
      o groups_list

  
-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:22:34 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:22:34 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F0B50692ED3castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <ogv4l1548efn15vuts8iiflushk34bmonh@4ax.com>

On 15 Oct 2005 22:47:45 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>Opera seems to be making money with it. Also, Firefox gets money from 
>Google kickback. Maybe MS had a similar idea in mind, but it failed 
>(remember how they wanted to add ads to keywords in webpages?)

There also had that Passport thing. They probably figured they would
take over Internet commerce and get rich off the user fees.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Sun Oct  2 17:08:04 2005
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:08:04 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43404c35$0$25903$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

James A. Donald wrote:
> I am contemplating getting into Python, which is used by engineers I
> admire - google and Bram Cohen, but was horrified to read
> 
> "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
> 
> Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
> mysteriously fail to work with no error message.
> 
> If you don't declare variables, you can inadvertently re-use an
> variable used in an enclosing context when you don't intend to, or
> inadvertently reference a new variable (a typo) when you intended to
> reference an existing variable.
> 
> What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug?

A variable has to be assigned to before it is used, otherwise a 
NameError exception is thrown..

 >>> a + 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'a' is not defined
 >>> a = 1
 >>> a + 1
2

Typos in variable names are easily discovered unless the typo happens to 
exist in the current context.

Will McGugan
-- 
http://www.willmcgugan.com
"".join({'*':'@','^':'.'}.get(c,0) or chr(97+(ord(c)-84)%26) for c in 
"jvyy*jvyyzpthtna^pbz")


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 11:19:20 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 08:19:20 -0700
Subject: Call C functions from Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1540.1128524501.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128522414.964010.65970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1540.1128524501.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128525560.469712.214380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

i dont have a myapp.pyd ...i have myapp.c, or are u suggesting I dump
the dll? or the swig generated python file?

the swig generated python file only has .py and .pyc.



From tharakawick at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 01:16:52 2005
From: tharakawick at gmail.com (tharaka)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 22:16:52 -0700
Subject: PEP: Adding decorators for everything
Message-ID: <1129612612.320897.151650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi Guys,

This is an idea for a PEP.

How would you guys feel about adding decorator support for
"everything"? Currently, only functions and method are supported.

For example:

@GuardedClass
class Foo:
    @Transient
    a = 'a transient field, ignored when serializing'

    @Const
    PI = 22.0 / 7

    @TypeSafe(int)
    count = 10

    ...



instead of:
class Foo:
    a = Transient('a transient field, ignored when serializing')

    PI = Const(22.0 / 7)

    count = TypeSafe(int)(10)

    ...
Foo = GuardedClass(Foo)


I mean, this would pave the way for a declarative style of programming
(in a more intuitive way).

It would also be better if multiple decorators could be written on the
same line. E.g.:
@A @B(x, y) @C
def foo(): ...

instead of
@A
@B(x, y)
@C
def foo(): ...

(The function definition should start on the next line though).


Suggestions, Comments, flames, anybody?


Cheers!



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 11:26:19 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 08:26:19 -0700
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer
Message-ID: <1130340379.441672.91250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Here's my SimpleXMLRPCServer derived class for serving XMLRPC
functions. Note that this class enables you to shutdown the xml-rpc
server in the moment you want just accesing the QuitFlag variable of
the class. I would like to add SSL functionality to that. What do I
have to add or modify in it to do so?

class XMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer):

    def __init__(self,socket,lock):
        self.bUsarFuncionesXMLRPCPrivadas = False
        SimpleXMLRPCServer.__init__(self, socket)
        SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer.allow_reuse_address = True
        SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer.request_queue_size = 100
        self.timeout = 0.1                   # Default timeout: 5.0
seconds
        self.lock = lock   # Should be a preexisting threading.RLock()
object
        self.lock.acquire()
        self.QuitFlag = 0
        self.lock.release()

    def get_request(self):
        socklist = [self.socket]
        while 1:
            # Select with a timeout, then poll a quit flag. An
alternate
            # approach would be to let the master thread "wake us up"
            # with a socket connection.
            ready = select.select(socklist, [], [], self.timeout)
            self.lock.acquire()
            time_to_quit = self.QuitFlag
            self.lock.release()
            if time_to_quit:
                raise TimeToQuit        # Get out now
            if ready[0]:        # A socket was ready to read
                return
SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer.get_request(self)
            else:               # We timed out, no connection yet
                pass            # Just go back to the select()

    def _dispatch(self, method, params):
        try:
            func = getattr(self, 'xmlrpc_' + method)
        except AttributeError:
            #return 'La funcion no existe'
            raise Exception('La Funcion "%s" no existe' % method)
        else:
            return func(*params)

    def verify_request(self,request,client_address):

        if TrustedHost(client_address):
            return True
        return False

    def test_xmlrpc(self):
        return "xmlrpc works"

Thanks,

Daniel



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 11:24:20 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:24:20 +0200
Subject: How to create temp file in memory???
In-Reply-To: <di0ql0$21i$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
References: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
	<mailman.1539.1128524487.509.python-list@python.org>
	<di0ql0$21i$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <3qi9h4Fer6jaU2@uni-berlin.de>

Wenhua Zhao wrote:
> I have a list of lines. I want to feed these lines into a function.
> The input of this function is a file.
> I want to creat a temp file on disk, and write the list of lines into 
> this temp file, then reopen the file and feed it to the function.
> Can I create a this temp file on memory???

Yes, the answer has been given to yoou already: (c?)StringIO will help you.

Diez


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 23:03:17 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:03:17 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>
	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
   ...
> Except if you can't read the file into memory because it's to large,
> there's a pretty good chance you won't be able to mmap it either.  To
> deal with huge files, the only option is to read the file in in
> chunks, count the occurences in each chunk, and then do some fiddling
> to deal with the pattern landing on a boundary.

That's the kind of things generators are for...:

def byblocks(f, blocksize, overlap):
    block = f.read(blocksize)
    yield block
    while block:
        block = block[-overlap:] + f.read(blocksize-overlap)
        if block: yield block

Now, to look for a substring of length N in an open binary file f:

f = open(whatever, 'b')
count = 0
for block in byblocks(f, 1024*1024, len(subst)-1):
    count += block.count(subst)
f.close()

not much "fiddling" needed, as you can see, and what little "fiddling"
is needed is entirely encompassed by the generator...


Alex


From http  Sun Oct  9 19:08:38 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 16:08:38 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xslva2sqx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> If performance is really not such an issue, would it really matter if you
> periodically restarted Python? Starting Python takes a tiny amount of time:

If you have to restart an application, every network peer connected to
it loses its connection.  Think of a phone switch.  Do you really want
your calls dropped every few hours of conversation time, just because
some lame application decided to restart itself?  Phone switches go to
great lengths to keep running through both hardware failures and
software upgrades, without dropping any calls.  That's the kind of
application it sounds like the OP is trying to run.

To the OP: besides Python you might also consider Erlang.


From johnjsal at NOSPAMgmail.com  Wed Oct 26 09:50:41 2005
From: johnjsal at NOSPAMgmail.com (John Salerno)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:50:41 GMT
Subject: suggestions between these two books
Message-ID: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>

Hi all. I'm fairly new to programming and I thought I'd like to try 
Python. I'm trying to decide between these two books:

Learning Python (O'Reilly)
Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional (APress)

and I was hoping you might have some suggestions. LP seems to be a good 
intro, but the other was published only a month ago and covers 2.4. So 
one question would be, is 2.2 different enough from 2.4 to warrant 
getting the newer book for that reason?

I might end up getting both eventually, but to start with I'm not sure 
which to choose.

Thanks!


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 08:22:16 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:16 GMT
Subject: Looking for client+server sample code (httplib and/or urlib)
Message-ID: <Y356f.3062$dO2.1886@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

Hi,

Are there such samples/tutorial out there ?

Regards,

Philippe




From http  Wed Oct  5 14:53:44 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 11:53:44 -0700
Subject: Does python support the expression "a = b | 1"???
References: <di0qq5$21i$2@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <7x4q7vokw7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Wenhua Zhao <whzhao at gmail.com> writes:
> Is there such expression in python?

Not in the current version but one is being added.


From sean at buildingonline.com  Mon Oct 10 01:04:19 2005
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:04:19 -0700
Subject: best Pythonic way to do this sort: Python newb
References: <rQl2f.3390$gj1.199@fed1read05>
	<7xbr1y9e1c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <ABm2f.3394$gj1.2075@fed1read05>


"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message 
news:7xbr1y9e1c.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Sean Berry" <sean at buildingonline.com> writes:
>> myList = [[value1, value2, value3],[value1, value2, value3], ...]
>>
>> I have a function which takes value3 from the lists above and returns
>> another value.  I want to use this returned value to sort the lists.
>>
>> So, my resultant list would be ordered by the return value of the
>> function with value3 as its argument.
>>
>> From a relative Python newb, what is the best way to do this?
>
> def get_key(x): return x[2]
> sorted_list = sorted(myList, key=get_key)

Sorry if I am missing something.  But. what is sorted here?

My simplified function looks like this

def myFunction( myNumber ):
    "do some math calculations to myNumber"
    return "result of calculations"

So, I want to sort myList by the return of myFunction( value3 )

I tried doing the following... with no luck so far
myList.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(myFunction(x[2]), myFunction(y[2]))

Thanks for any help.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 08:09:55 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:09:55 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <dhtrec$1t1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> 
>>>Or you just code without declaring, intending to go 
>>>back and do it later, and invariably forget.
>>
>>What's the problem, the compilor will allert you
>>to your forgetfullness and you can then correct
>>them all at once.
> 
> 
> Thiat in fact happens to me all the time and is an annoying aspect of
> Python.  If I forget to declare several variables in C, the compiler
> gives me several warning messages and I fix them in one edit.  If I
> forget to initialize several variables in Python, I need a separate
> test-edit cycle to hit the runtime error for each one.

Well I hope you aren't suggesting that declaring variables makes it 
impossible to forget to initalise them. So I don;t really see the 
relevance of this remark, since you simply add an extra run to fix up 
the "forgot to declare" problem. After that you get precisely one 
runtime error per "forgot to initialize".

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 17 05:29:55 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:29:55 +0200
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
In-Reply-To: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <43536f15$0$19239$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

James Gan wrote:
> I want the object printed in a readable format. For example,
> x =[a, b, c, [d e]] will be printed as:
> x--a
>  |_b
>  |_c
>  |___d
>    |_e
> 
> I tried pickled, marshel. They do different work. 
>
> Is there another
> module which do this kind of job?
> 

pprint

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From luiscasanova at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 08:57:59 2005
From: luiscasanova at gmail.com (luiscasanova at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 05:57:59 -0700
Subject: C extension modules in Python
Message-ID: <1129985879.298558.294770@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'vre written an extension module to accelarate some code i've made in
python with numarray. Then i compiled an linke d it with swig, my
problem is that when i make the import in my python code it gives me an
error: ImportError: libnumarray.so: cannot open shared object file: No
such file or directory

does anyone know why this hapens and how can i solve it?



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct  4 12:16:00 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:16:00 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Declarations also allow easier writable closures. Since the declaration
> happens at a certain scope, the run time can easily find the correct
> scope when a variable is rebound.

If it happens at runtime, then you can do it without declarations:
they're gone by then. Come to think of it, most functional languages -
which are the languages that make the heaviest use of closures - don't
require variable declarations.

> They also relieve a burden from the run-time, since all variables
> are declared, the runtime doesn't has to check whether or not
> a variable is accesible, it knows it is.

Not in a dynamic language. Python lets you delete variables at run
time, so the only way to know if a variable exists at a specific
point during the execution of an arbitrary program is to execute the
program to that point.

> And if you provide type information with the declaration, more
> efficient code can be produced.

Only in a few cases. Type inferencing is a well-understood
technology, and will produce code as efficient as a statically type
language in most cases.

> I think language matters shouldn't be setlled by personal preferences.

I have to agree with that. For whether or not a feature should be
included, there should either be a solid reason dealing with the
functionality of the language - meaning you should have a set of use
cases showing what a feature enables in the language that couldn't be
done at all, or could only be done clumsily, without the feature.

Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
effect the programing process. And we have conflicting claims about
whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
personal preferences.

Until someone does the research to provide hard evidence one way or
another, that's all we've got to work with. Which means that languages
should exist both with and with those features, and if one sides
experiences generalize to the population at large, they alternative
languages will die out. Which hasn't happened yet.

> But we should decide what language features are usefull and which are
> not by what some individual can or can't live without.

Um - that's just personal preference (though I may have misparsed your
sentence). What one person can't live without, another may not be able
to live with. All that means is that they aren't likely to be happy
with the same programming language. Which is fine - just as no
programming language can do everything, no programming language can
please everyone.

Antoon, at a guess I'd say that Python is the first time you've
encountered a dynamnic language. Being "horrified" at not having
variable declarations, which is a standard feature of such languages
dating back to the 1950s, is one such indication.

Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
experienced with something like Pascal would consider
essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.

Given these kinds of differences, prior experience is *not* a valid
reason for thinking that some difference must be wrong. Until you have
experience with the language in question, you can't really decide that
some feature being missing is intolerable. You're in the same position
as the guy who told me that a language without a goto would be
unusable based on his experience with old BASIC, FORTRAN IV and
assembler.

Pick one of the many languages that don't require declarations. Try
writing a code in them, and see how much of a problem it really is in
practice, rather than trying to predict that without any
information. Be warned that there are *lots* of variations on how
undeclared variables are treated when referenced. Python raises
exceptions. Rexx gives them their print name as a value. Other
languages do other things.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 30 01:18:43 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 01:18:43 -0500
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
	<1130647542.669549.300360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <864q6zcyt8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"lbolognini at gmail.com" <lbolognini at gmail.com> writes:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Do you mean this instead?
>>
>>       elif name in expected_form1_kwargs and name not in kwargs:
>>
>> What you wrote doesn't do what you think it does...  it actually tests
>> for whether True or False is a key in kwargs, depending on whether "name
>> in expected_form1_kwargs" returns True or False.
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> you're right... the code needed also other fixes and I didn't find a
> way to do it other than this:
>
> def foo(**kwargs):
>     expected_form1_kwargs = ["arg1", "arg2"]
>
>     for name in expected_form1_kwargs:
>         if name not in kwargs:
>             kwargs[name]=None
>
>     for name in kwargs:
>         if name in kwargs and name not in expected_form1_kwargs:
>             raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword: " + name
>
>     print kwargs


You're contorting things horribly, and - not unexpected when you do
that kind of thing - running code that has no effect. To wit, the
second loop goes through every key in kwargs. The first thing it does
is test to see if the key you just selected from kwargs is in
kwargs. This test is always true.

IIUC, the reason you're going through these contortions is that the
argument list is long and repeated in a number of different places. So
you're going to declare expected_form1_kwargs in one place and use it
repeatedly. Presumably, you can also bundle the set/check code up in a
function that you pass kwargs to as well.

Have you thought about generating the more readable form from code you
write? One of the most powerful tools available to programmers is code
that writes code. This seems to be the perfect case for such a
tool. You could, for instance, run your code through m4 to generate
the Python that actually gets run. A trivial script that looks for
"^def " and then replaced **kwargs with your list could serve as a
custom preprocessor.  To be particulary perverse, you could try using
a Cheetah template to generate your code - I've not tried generating
Python with it, but it creates Makefiles quite nicely.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 16 11:16:16 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:16:16 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no><1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch><1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews><mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org><difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net><digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch><1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch><pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch><pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch><cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <ditqs4$dtv$1@sea.gmane.org>

Christian Stapfer wrote:

> As to the value of complexity theory for creativity
> in programming (even though you seem to believe that
> a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
> creativity), the story of the discovery of an efficient
> string searching algorithm by D.E.Knuth provides an
> interesting case in point. Knuth based himself on
> seemingly quite "uncreatively theoretical work" (from
> *your* point of view) that gave a *better* value for
> the computuational complexity of string searching
> than any of the then known algorithms could provide.

are you talking about KMP?  I'm not sure that's really a good example of
how useful "theoretical work" really is in practice:

- Morris had already implemented the algorithm (in 1968) when Knuth "dis-
  covered" it (1971 or later), so the "then known" part of your argument is
  obviously bogus.  "then known by theoretical computer scientists" might
  be correct, though.

- (iirc, Knuth's first version wasn't practical to use; this was fixed by Pratt)

- (and iirc, Boyer-Moore had already been invented when Knuth published the
  first paper on KMP (in 1977))

- for use cases where the setup overhead is irrelevant, Boyer-Moore is almost
  always faster than KMP.  for many such cases, BM is a lot faster.

- for use cases such as Python's "find" method where the setup overhead cannot
  be ignored, a brute-force search is almost always faster than KMP.

- for use cases such as Python's "find" method, a hybrid approach is almost
  always faster than a brute-force search.

in other words, the "better" computational complexity of KMP has turned out
to be mostly useless, in practice.

</F>





From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Tue Oct  4 04:58:23 2005
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:58:23 +0200
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
References: <mailman.1371.1128343570.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhtg7g$59k$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>


"David Pratt" <fairwinds at eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.1371.1128343570.509.python-list at python.org...
> Hi. Thank you for the links. I am looking for something that would
> function in a similar way to Yahoo's filter for it's message boards.
> Perhaps I should have used the term profanity instead of unacceptable
> language. I am not concerned about correcting sentence structure or
> poor grammar.

 Yo melonfarmer, you should watch the non-profane version of Repo-Man for
inspiration -  ;-)

PS:

Sites like "The Profanisaurus" provides plenty of workarounds for most of
the filters out there.




From maxoutrage at comcast.net  Thu Oct 27 06:03:09 2005
From: maxoutrage at comcast.net (maxoutrage at comcast.net)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 03:03:09 -0700
Subject: 1 Million users.. I can't Scale!!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1186.1128023048.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1127924360.190081.155420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<433B31C0.6040308@fuse.net>
	<1127976525.567883.265900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1186.1128023048.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130406295.796127.142900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

How are you actually sending messages to the SMSC?

If you are directly connected - IE using SMPP or UCP then I would
imagine that there is a bottle neck at the SMSC. Large SMSC systems
in the US typically deliver upto 1000 sm/s with larger systems
delivering
2000+ sm/s - From the throughput you require I can see this could be
a problem. I can imagine the carrier would not be happy for your
application
to dominate the SMSC and may impose throttling on your application.

What have you agreed with the carrier ragarding your connection. With
a high volume application it is important to verify the network
bandwidth
available and round trip delays. Also, verify the the windowing
parameters
for the SMPP/UCP connection and the maximum number of connections you
are
allowed to make.

Are you connecting to a multi-node SMSC? Then make separate connections
to each node.

Peter.

phil wrote:
> > Quite true and this lack of clarity was a mistake on my part.  Requests
> > from users do not really become a significant part of this equation
> > because, as described above, once a user subscribes the onus is upon us
> > to generate messages throughout a given period determined by the number
> > of updates a user has subscribed to receive.
> >
>
>
> So you are trying to SEND a million times several packets every
> 5 minutes?
> No way Python is the bottleneck in that volume.
> I have a POS app in Python that handles 10,000 packets
> per SECOND including a MySQL lookup.
> You have a bottleneck, but its not Python.



From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 10:20:42 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 07:20:42 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
Message-ID: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
  I would like to start a new process and be able to read/write from/to
it.  I have tried things like...

import subprocess as sp
p = sp.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=sp.PIPE)
p.stdin.write("hostname\n")

however, it doesn't seem to work.  I think the cmd.exe is catching it.

I also tried
f = open("out.txt", "w")
sys.stdout = f
os.system("cmd.exe")

..but out.txt didn't contain any output from cmd.exe

So, how can I create a process (in this case, cmd.exe) on Windows and
be able to read/write from/to it?

Thanks



From jmdeschamps at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 14:01:47 2005
From: jmdeschamps at gmail.com (jmdeschamps at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:01:47 -0700
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <1130257332.726811.135510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130257332.726811.135510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130262592.870695.278550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Geirr wrote:
> Hi, ive just started playing around with python and wondered if someone
> could poing me in the right way here.
>
>
> I have a xmlrpc server simple script:
>
> Server script:
> import SimpleXMLRPCServer
> class tpo:
>
> 	def retTPOXML():
> 		theFile=open('tpo.xml')
> 		try:
> 			self.strXML = theFile.read()
> 			return self.strXML
> 		finally:
> 			theFile.close()
>
> tpo_object = tpo()
> server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("localhost",8888))
> server.register_instance(tpo_object)
>
> print "Listening on port 8888"
> server.serve_forever()
>
> and im trying to print the return value with any luck
>
> Client Code:
> import xmlrpclib
> server = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:8888")
> current = server.retTPOXML
> print current
>
>
> Any comment would be appriciated



First:
in python, class definitions require that you explicitly refer to the
instance, such as self.myMethod().
In *self.strXML* the word *self* is a variable, it should be part of
the method parameter list such as *def retTPOXML(self):*.
The first parameter of methods (functions in classes) refers to the
instance that is created. (BTW, it could be anything else than *self*,
which is pure convention)
Second:
In the client, your not using the method you're refering to it (methods
are yet another sort of objects), yu need the parenthesis such as
*current = server.retTPOXML()*
Notice that on calling the method the object is on the left side of the
dot, and that is the object instance that will be adequated to the
*self* in the class definition.

but you should also read the tutorial.

(others may propose things otherwise (better versed in the theory at
work behind the scene...  ;-))



From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Oct  9 00:03:14 2005
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 04:03:14 -0000
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <1128830593.656580@yasure>

Quoth Lasse_Vgsther_Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no>:
| Brandon K wrote:
|> Hrm...i find it demeaning to relegate Python to a scripting language 
|> while Visual Basic is in the "software development" section.  Python so 
|> outdoes VB in every way shape and form.

| <snip>
|
| In that respect I would very much like to see a definition of "scripting 
| language" as well :)
|
| In other words, what is the difference between a "scripting language" 
| and a "programming language".

I oculd come up with a definition, but I can't come up with _the_
definition.  The word is used in such broad and vague ways that to
use it is practically a sign of sloppy thinking.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 05:50:29 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:50:29 +0200
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi><7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi><7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi><7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li><slrndkq9ge.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510130003150.19197@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <dilal1$1l3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tom Anderson wrote:

> In both smalltalk and python, every single variable contains a reference
> to an object - there isn't the object/primitive distinction you find in
> less advanced languages like java.
>
> Except that in smalltalk, this isn't true: in ST, every variable *appears*
> to contain a reference to an object, but implementations may not actually
> work like that.

Python implementations don't have to work that way either.  Please don't
confuse "the Python language" with "the CPython implementation" and with
other implementations (existing as well as hypothetical).

(fwiw, switching to tagging in CPython would break most about everything.
might as well start over, and nobody's likely to do that to speed up integer-
dominated programs a little...)

</F> 





From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Wed Oct  5 03:46:31 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:31 +0530
Subject: 2 class with same name in different module
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4B@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


I have a class in a module which is getting imported in main module.
How do you differentiate between the 2 class

regards
prasad chandrasekaran











This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  7 07:34:31 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:34:31 -0500
Subject: recursive function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1671.1128683058.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<Ge-dnXvNWpFI1t3eRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.1671.1128683058.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128685027_118871@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


Is there no way to implement your idea in a classical loop? Usually the 
syntax is cleaner, and there is no limit (except the limit of the range 
function in certain cases).  For example what would be wrong with.

def foo(j):
     while j < n:
	j+=1
     return j

I don't know much about the internals of python, but to me it seems like 
if you're going to be doing this on the level of 1000s of iterations, 
there might be some overhead to using recursion (i.e. function calls) 
that a loop wouldn't have (but that's just a guess).

> Hello,
> 
> In a recursive function like the following :
> 
> 
> def foo( j ) :
>  j += 1
>  while j < n : j = foo( j )
>  return j
> 
> 
> in found that the recursivity is limited (1000 iterations). Then, I have 
> two questions :
> - why this mecanism has been implemented ?
> - it is possible to increase or remove (and how) the number of iterations ?
> 
> Regards,
> Mathieu


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From bj_666 at gmx.net  Tue Oct 18 18:10:14 2005
From: bj_666 at gmx.net (Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:10:14 +0200
Subject: HTTPResponse.read() returns an empty string?
References: <dj2lvt$s30$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<dj2m7k$s7n$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.18.22.10.12.463057@gmx.net>

In <dj2m7k$s7n$1 at wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>, Christoph S?llner wrote:

> ok got it:
> One cannot close the connection before reading the answer.

Yep, because the "answer" is read over the connection.

> Seems that in my original source the new assigned variable
> 'answ' is destroyed or emptied with the connection.close()
> command; very strange behaviour.

No, it's not emptied or destroyed.  The read() method reads the content
over the connection.  That doesn't work if the connection is closed.  It's
like closing a file and then reading from it.

The response object contains just the headers.  So you can inspect them
before you decide to download the actual content.

Ciao,
	Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


From timr at probo.com  Fri Oct 21 02:05:45 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:05:45 GMT
Subject: connect to https unpossible. Please help.
References: <mailman.2275.1129757376.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hv0hl1l151cs6qi0e03jm0if3bhibloj72@4ax.com>

"Mark Delon" <mark.delon at gmx.at> wrote:
>
>i want to log via python script to https page:
>
>'https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/'
>#
>But it does not work.
>
>I am using following code(see below)
>
>Has somebody any ideas?
>How can I get to this https page?
>Need I to know some infos from "provider"(certificates, etc)?
>Thank u very much !

You are trying to set this up to use HTTP BasicAuth authorization, but this
page is not using HTTP authorization.  You can recognize HTTP authorization
by the separate browser window that pops up to ask for your username and
password.

In this case, the username and password fields are just ordinary fields on
a form.  What you need to do is read the HTTP on that page, and figure out
how to send a URL containing values for those fields.  In this case, the
form data goes to
https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/welcome/loginaction.phtml, and you'll need
to encode 'login' and 'pwd' fields in the POST data.

However, that isn't the end of your trouble.  That page will almost
certainly send you a cookie, which you will need to send back with every
request.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct  2 15:06:20 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:06:20 -0500
Subject: Statement orders
In-Reply-To: <3qanooFdu6okU1@news.dfncis.de>
References: <1128236799.839645.101270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1338.1128238804.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3qanooFdu6okU1@news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20051002190620.GA14742@unpythonic.net>

Here's one case where it's bad to call update.

	def perform_longrunning_calculation():
		time.sleep(1)
		app.update()
		time.sleep(1)

suppose you kick this off with a keybinding, such as:
	app.bind("c", lambda e: perform_longrunning_calculation())
the calculation takes 2 seconds, and after 1 second update() is called,
possibly to make sure that the user interface is repainted.

But imagine that in the first second, "c" has been pressed.  That event will
be handled, and perform_longrunning_calculation will be entered *again*,
recursively.  The nesting looks something like this:
  app's mainloop
    handling keypress
      perform_longrunning_calculation()
        app.update()
          handling keypress
            perform_longrunning_calculation()
by calling update_idletasks instead of update, the keypress event is not
handled, so it's impossible to enter perform_longrunning_calculation a
second time.

Jeff
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From lycka at carmen.se  Thu Oct 13 05:06:03 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:06:03 +0200
Subject: Teaching Python,
	was: Re: is there any Python code for spatial tessellation?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1812.1128907069.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1d987df30510080440x5ae758eard7ccfbd829f88264@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1812.1128907069.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dil81s$np3$1@wake.carmen.se>

Shi Mu wrote:
> is there any course website about teaching python?
> for instance, some computer science courses website?

Your subject line wasn't very helpful...

See:
http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/
http://tech.canterburyschool.org/pycon/
http://www.livewires.org.uk/python/
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
http://www.python-in-business.org/ep2005/talk.chtml?talk=4772&track=774
http://www.educationaltechnology.ca/dan/archives/2005/03/23/teaching-introductory-computer-science-with-python/


From rrr at ronadam.com  Fri Oct 28 21:29:13 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:29:13 GMT
Subject: tkinter blues (greens, reds, ...)
In-Reply-To: <1130534916.236147.314810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130519159.921821.164420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2684.1130523517.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dpu8f.214915$p_1.133627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130534916.236147.314810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <JfA8f.214955$p_1.132419@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Sean McIlroy wrote:
> i'm using the canned colors ("pink", "orange", etc). should i try
> changing to explicit color specifications to see if that makes a
> difference? i'm not sure what the other guy meant by a "soft toy", but
> i take it the idea is to try and construct a correctness proof for the
> script, and see what keeps it (the proof) from working. it's a sound
> idea, of course, but the script is pretty darn straightforward, as you
> can see (below). anyway, i'll let you know how it turns out.
> 
> peace

Hmm... It worked fine for me.  I'm using python 2.4.1 on windows XP.

I didn't see anything particularly wrong with the program that might 
cause the problem you are referring to.  So I'm afraid I can't help much.

Maybe someone with 2.3 can reproduce it?

BTW,  Nice puzzle, much harder than it looks.

Cheers,
    Ron


From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  7 14:00:54 2005
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Nicholas,

Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe it can talk
to Python.
Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including having ODE
solvers. I have successfully used it to model and simulate simple
systems. Complex system would be easy to model as well, provided that
you model your dynamic elements with (systems of) differential
equations.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct 28 15:00:58 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:00:58 +0200
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3sfarbFnt8bvU1@uni-berlin.de>

KraftDiner wrote:
> I have two lists.
> I want to sort by a value in the first list and have the second list
> sorted as well... Any suggestions on how I should/could do this?

I guess you mean that you have two lists of same size where each index 
position pointing to corrsponding items - like two excel columns? Then 
this helps:

sl = zip(list_a, list_b)
sl.sort()
list_a, list_b = unzip(*sl)

Regards,

Diez


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 05:25:59 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 11:25:59 +0200
Subject: Class Help
References: <BAY103-F19ACFB39FA1BF89D078523A28E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <dho93a$51q$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ivan Shevanski wrote:

> To continue with my previous problems, now I'm trying out classes.  But I
> have a problem (which I bet is easily solveable) that I really don't get.
> The numerous tutorials I've looked at just confsed me.For intance:
>
> >>>class Xyz:
> ...     def y(self):
> ...             q = 2
> ...
> >>>Xyz.y()

what tutorial told you to write this last line?

</F>





From hagai26 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 10:11:19 2005
From: hagai26 at gmail.com (hagai26 at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 07:11:19 -0700
Subject: reading hebrew text file
Message-ID: <1129558279.759330.199890@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a hebrew text file, which I want to read in python
I don't know which encoding I need to use & how I do that

thanks,
hagai



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 14 06:43:12 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:43:12 -0400
Subject: Yes, this is a python question, and a serious one at that (moving
	to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <7qCdnSkPd-wwFtLeRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Christian Stapfer wrote:
> 0.0. ... and add an item to your SendTo folder that allows
> you to have Windows Explorer open a terminal window with its
> current directory set to the currently displayed folder
> (= "Open terminal here").

Or install the "Command Prompt Here" gadget that MS produces, which has 
a massive installer and a click-through license thing and everything, 
just to open a freakin' prompt at a given directory.  I'm continually 
amazed by how these little bits of knowledge (like the one Christian 
provides above and which I never knew before) have to be disseminated 
through the grass roots, so to speak.  Definitely like the MS world is 
not set up for real developers easily to be productive.

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 11:39:23 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 17:39:23 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com><pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org><pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dibdjd$eho$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> > let's take it again, with emphasis on some important words:
> >
> >     "a closure is an ABSTRACTION representing a function, PLUS the
> >     lexical ENVIRONMENT (see static scoping) in which the function
> >     was created."
> >
> >> If you create a closure, using a memoization technique as per the original
> >> post, and then call type() on that closure, Python reports <type 'function'>.
> >
> > that's because "closure" is an abstract concept.
>
> So are functions, modules, classes, instances, ints and strings.

they're hardly abstract; they all have distinct object implementations in the
Python runtime.  there's an include file and a main implementation file for each
one of them, and you can access the type objects for each one of them from
Python code.  any implementation of Python has to implement them.  there's
no such thing for "closures"; they're the sum of a lot of different parts, all of
which can be implemented in many different ways.

> If what you say is true, then all functions are closures, and closure is
> just a synonym for function, and there is no difference between a function
> and a closure.

having something isn't the same thing as being something.

if you replace "function" with "function object", you get a bit closer to the
truth.  e.g. in this snippet

    def wrapper(a):
        def func3():
            return a
        return func

"func" and "wrapper" are functions, but if you call wrapper twice, you get
two different function objects, each with it's own distinct closure.

(to see this in action, take the snippet I posted in an earlier post and
add

    f = wrapper(10); decode(f)
    f = wrapper(10); decode(f)

to the end.  this prints:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
func3:
  9           0 LOAD_DEREF               0 (a)
              3 RETURN_VALUE
              4 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              7 RETURN_VALUE
co_freevars = ('a',)
func_closure = (<cell at 0x0083EE50: int object at 0x00798250>,)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
func3:
  9           0 LOAD_DEREF               0 (a)
              3 RETURN_VALUE
              4 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              7 RETURN_VALUE
co_freevars = ('a',)
func_closure = (<cell at 0x0083EDB0: int object at 0x0079A960>,)

)

same function, same code, different closures.

(note that in CPython, functions only exist on the syntax level; when
you writing something that you think is a function, the CPython com-
piler will turn this into a code object and translate "def" to bytecode;
the actual function object isn't created until you execute those byte-
codes)

> At a practical, Python level, there is a difference between a function
> before and after it gets made into a closure using, e.g. the original
> poster's memoization technique. In Python at least, it is not true that a
> function and a function-turned-into-closure is the same thing.

function or function object?  all instances of the latter have a global en-
vironment (func_globals), some also have default arguments (func_defaults),
some also have references to nested scopes (func_freevars).  all of them
have all these attributes; that they're set to None when empty is just an
memory optimization.

> >>> spam1.func_closure is None
> True
> >>> spam2.func_closure
> (<cell at 0xf70a2734: function object at 0xf6e0a144>,)
> >>> hex(id(spam1))
> '0xf6e0a144'
>
> In one case, the "raw" function has None stored in its func_closure
> attribute. In the other, it has a tuple containing at least one object of
> type cell. That cell object appears to contain a reference back to the
> original "raw" function.

func_closure is the name of an attribute.  it contains information about
a certain part of a function object's closure (free variables in an existing
outer scope), but, despite its name, it's not *the* closure.

> So no, there is no "abstract" difference between a closure and a raw
> function, but there is a practical difference.

only if you're obsessed with CPython implementation details.

</F>





From michael+USENET at www.heiming.de  Sun Oct 16 07:14:29 2005
From: michael+USENET at www.heiming.de (Michael Heiming)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:14:29 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de>

In comp.os.linux.misc Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au>:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:58 +0200, Jeroen Wenting wrote:

>> My point is that Microsoft made computers that were more than glorified 
>> gaming consoles affordable for the common man.

> Microsoft has never made a computer in its existence. Not one. They are a

One should be lucky.

> software company. The only hardware they sell are keyboards and mice.


>> They are the ones who lowered the price of shrinkwrapped software for home 
>> and office application from thousands or tens of thousands to hundreds of 
>> dollars.

> Yeah, if you ignore Apple, Wordperfect, Adobe, Aldus, Wordstar, and dozens
> of other software suppliers.

> Is it possible for you to get your arguments even more wrong? What's next?
> Microsoft invented the transistor?

Let's not forget about the Internet, they invented together with
Al Gore and of course the wheel!

Honestly, for anyone serious, there are "The Halloween
Documents", which should give enough information about FUD...

	http://www.opensource.org/halloween/

At least, a nice troll bait the OP launched, even if obvious
enough, extensive cross-posting and "Microsoft" right in the
subject. ;-)

-- 
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry at urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 390: Increased sunspot activity.


From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 01:26:53 2005
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (gsteff)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 22:26:53 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <1129267489.263656.93610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129267489.263656.93610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129267613.153033.260690@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Er, meant to say  "In addition GTK itself is in the top tier of free
software projects"



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 13:37:51 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:37:51 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <1128532128.4560.21.camel@blackwidow>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>	
	<3qid8sFeigdeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128532128.4560.21.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <3qihbfFerdqjU1@uni-berlin.de>

> 
> I looked at the Borg Pattern, but I don't think it was exactly what I
> want.
> 
> The Borg patten appears to be if you want multiple instances that point
> to the same "data".
> 
> What I wanted is multiple calls to create a new object with the same
> parameters points to the "original" object instead of creating a new
> one.

Read the comments. What you say is essentially the same - the data 
matters, after all. What do you care if there are several instances around?

Diez


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 12 09:45:58 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:45:58 +0200
Subject: Very dumb question
In-Reply-To: <434D1211.6010903@designaproduct.biz>
References: <434D1211.6010903@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <434D1396.10306@designaproduct.biz>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

>I have a program with this code fragment:
>
>    print len(data)
>    print data[:50]
>    raise SystemExit
>
>This prints:
>
>20381
><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
>
>But if I change 50 to 51
>
>    print len(data)
>    print data[:51]
>    raise SystemExit
>
>then it prints
>
>20381
> !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
>
>After all, only the last 50 bytes are printed. The string is the same 
>(length 20381) in both cases.
>  
>
Hmm, I checked on Windows now and it is working. But it is bad on 
FreeBSD/Python 2.4.1
Very strange. len(data[:100]) returns 100, but if I try to print it, 
only the first 50 characters printed.

   Les



From joe at invalid.address  Tue Oct 18 14:21:19 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 13:21:19 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address> <bSa5f.15276$Hm3.12093@fe09.lga>
Message-ID: <m3fyqybs9s.fsf@invalid.address>

"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne at attglobal.net> writes:

> joe at invalid.address wrote:
> > "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne at attglobal.net> writes:
> >
> >>Michael Heiming wrote:
> >>
> >>>Let's not forget about the Internet, they invented together with
> >>>Al Gore and of course the wheel!
> >>
> >>No fair picking on Al Gore. All he ever claimed was that he was the
> >>Congressional point man for the "Information Superhighway", which he
> >>was.
> > Well, what he said was
> >   "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
> >    initiative in creating the Internet."
> > What you say he did is what he actually did, but what he said gives a
> > different impression. I don't think he's careless or stupid, so I
> > think he said that in order to create the impression in the minds of
> > the people listening to the interview that he's responsible for the
> > internet.
> 
> For "the Internet" as 99% of the American people comprehend it, he
> /was/ largely responsible, on the political end. The fact that the
> "Information Superhighway" turned out to be implemented as a massive
> explosion of the former ARPANet was an unforeseeable accident of
> history, resulting from the coincidental timing of the "Information
> Superhighway" initiative, the introduction of the Web, and (to some
> degree) the ARPANet worm.

This was said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer in 1999. By that
time the Internet was quite a bit more than ARPANet, and my guess is
that 99% of the American people thought of it as it was in 1999. His
comment created the impression that he was responsible for what
existed then.

Yes, he deserves credit for what he did. He nevertheless created a
false impression in what he said. If he hadn't created that false
impression, there would not have been any jokes about him. If all he
said was what he actually did, this would never have been an issue.

Joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 03:51:31 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:51:31 +0200
Subject: grep
References: <Nvk7f.14699$gF4.11900@trnddc07>
	<1130223409.28336.2.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <djko63$pnh$1@sea.gmane.org>

"marduk" wrote:

>> What's the standard replacement for the obsolete grep module?
>
> AFAIK there never was a "grep" module.  There does, however exist a
> deprecated "regex" module:

there was a "grep" module in 1.5.2 and earlier:

    http://effbot.org/librarybook/grep.htm

but it was removed in 2.0 (or somewhere around that time).

the new RE package doesn't support all the RE syntax variants used by that
module, but if you're willing to update your patterns [1] to use the new syntax,
you can replace grep with some variation of:

    import re, glob

    def grep(pattern, *files):
        search = re.compile(pattern).search
        for file in files:
            for index, line in enumerate(open(file)):
                if search(line):
                    print ":".join((file, str(index+1), line[:-1]))

    grep("grep", *glob.glob("*.py"))

(tweak as necessary)

</F>

1) to some extent, the reconvert module might be able to help you with the con-
version:

    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-reconvert.html
    http://effbot.org/librarybook/reconvert.htm 





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 14:06:51 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 04:06:51 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<3qssr4Fgjc2qU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.18.06.50.384030@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 17:55:16 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>> If what you say is true, then all functions are closures, and closure is
>> just a synonym for function, and there is no difference between a function
>> and a closure. Then why bother to create the term? Clearly, whoever
>> invented the term did so to distinguish the two.
> 
> You seem to still not getting to it: they aren't supposed to be 
> distinguished - a function is a function. But it _can_ have a closure, 
> which (shortly spoken) enriches it's local variables lookup. 

[penny drops] Now we're getting somewhere... a closure is something
_added_ to a function. So we should talk about functions-without-closures
and functions-with-closures.

> Speaking in 
> terms of "is a" could be seen as some inheritance relation. 

[penny rises again] Dammit, just when I thought I got it. So a closure is
like a subclass of function? Functions are a higher level classification,
like mammals. There are mammals that are primates (functions that _are_
closures) and mammals that aren't (functions that _aren't_ closures).


> Which 
> functions and functions with a closure _could_ have if one wanted to. 
> But that is true for other OO-concepts two. See below.
> 
>> At a practical, Python level, there is a difference between a function
>> before and after it gets made into a closure using, e.g. the original
>> poster's memoization technique. In Python at least, it is not true that a
>> function and a function-turned-into-closure is the same thing.
>> 
>> See, for example, this:-
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Nope. You mix things here. spam1 is a function. 

Yes.

> spam2 is actually bound 
> to the function-object created by do_nothing - 

Yes.

> a function that has a closure because it is nested in closefy, and
> accesses variables from its outer lexical scope - thus i needs a
> closure. 

Right! So closures are something which functions _have_ -- which is why
Python functions have an attribute called func_closure, which is empty in
functions without closures, and contain a tuple of cells in those with
them.

Now somebody is going to tell me this is an implementation detail and it
isn't true in the general language independent case...


> Part of do_nothing's closure is spam1 (or, better to say, the
> function reference that has been originally bound to spam1 - spam1 is
> just a name). 

Yes, I can see that.

> Important is that the closure gets created at runtime, so
> each returned instance of do_nothing has its own. But the original spam1
> implementation is untouched  contrary to what  you state above. It still
> is teh same thing, and has no closure.
> 
> Consider this:
> 
> class Foo(object):
>      pass
> 
> f = Foo()
> g = Foo()
> g.bar = "whatever"
> 
> f and g are both Foo

Now you're trying to trick me... they are both *instances* of Foo, not
Foo. Foo is a class, and f and g are not classes, let alone the same class.

> - but one has a different attribute set. And if Foo
> had some semantics that did something different based on bar, would you
> also say they're supposed have two different classes? You could in fact
> do that - create one class for each incarnation of possible  state. But
> then the concept of classes and objects gets somewhat blurred, as each
> instance would have its own class. The same is true for functions.

Ah, but in languages like Pascal that can take functions as arguments, but
can't return functions as output, *all* functions have to be created
separately. To take your analogy and run with it, Pascal would be like a
language that didn't allow f and g to have different attributes unless
they belonged to different classes.

Python is not like that, which is why you can write a function to return
functions (a factory function?). If the output function needs access to
the namespace of the factory function, Python adds a closure to that
output function, giving it access to the objects in that namespace.


-- 
Steven.



From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Sat Oct 29 06:43:05 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:43:05 +0200
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43635258$0$4351$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !


Not the good answer, but, for information :

AutoIt is very better in beta-release (many versions beta exist). AutoIt 
beta can use COM call, and can use COM-server writed in Python with win32all 
(PyWin).

And, also, AutoIt exist like Active-X (in reality a COM server), who can to 
do used from Python (+ PyWin).


@-salutations

Michel Claveau





From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 05:38:02 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:38:02 -0700
Subject: execution order in list/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <1130059544.215010.318610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130059544.215010.318610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djfllr$i5q$1@sea.gmane.org>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am wondering how this is evaluated.
> 
> a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])
> p=[4,5]
> 
> c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]
> 
> c is []

No it isn't.

In [1]: a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])

In [2]: p=[4,5]

In [3]: c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]

In [4]: c
Out[4]: [4]

I'm willing to bet that you used up the 'a' iterator before you ran that
list comprehension, though.

In [5]: c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]

In [6]: c
Out[6]: []

Note that "x in list(a)" gets executed on each iteration, but the
iterator is used up on the first time.

In [7]: a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])

In [8]: p = [4, 5, 2, 3]

In [9]: c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]

In [10]: c
Out[10]: [4]

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct 22 21:22:46 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:22:46 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u8pll1dmp4esbpgpb6222dpp9fp98hngaq@4ax.com>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:00:31 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote or quoted :

>The choice was go along with MS arm twisting or go out of business.
>
>I call that extortion.

I deeply resent this, because they not only ripped me off, they put me
a in position I felt compelled to become part of their dirty business
scheme.  I am angrier for my own uncleanness than I am at my actual
financial losses.

I despise them for corrupting me. 


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From nephish at xit.net  Tue Oct 25 11:18:39 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:18:39 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <1130253519.330211.92880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Ok, first off, thanks for all the help guys,

this part " set xtics  ("label" pos, "label" pos, "label" pos) "
is mainly what i was confused about. the 'pos' part. i think that the
way i am writing
this leaves this out. in fact, i am pretty sure.

here is the code i am trying out.

def draw_chart(self, StartTime, EndTime):
    	# make start time and end time markers in  seconds
    	start_tic = time.mktime(time.strptime(StartTime, '%Y-%m-%d
%H:%M:%S'))
    	end_tic = time.mktime(time.strptime(EndTime, '%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'))
    	# get the difference in seconds between start and end times
    	diff_time = start_tic - end_tic
    	# get tick marks with respect to time
    	tic_increment = diff_time / 15
    	#build an array of ticmarks
    	tics_raw = []
    	tics_raw.append(start_tic)
    	tic_adder = start_tic
    	for x in range(13):
    		tic_adder = tic_adder + tic_increment
    		tics_raw.append(tic_adder)

    	#add the last time to the tics array
    	tics_raw.append(end_tic)

    	# change all the tic increments to reader understandable values
    	tics = []
    	for x in tics_raw:
    		tics.append(time.strftime('%m/%d %H:%M', time.localtime(x)))
    		print 'tic '+(time.strftime('%m/%d %H:%M', time.localtime(x)))

        # get the plot points date / value
    	Sensor =  self.GraphSensorEntry.get_text()
        db = MySQLdb.connect(host="localhost", user="piv",
passwd="crayon99", db="DDS")
        cursor=db.cursor()
        cursor.execute("SELECT `Raw`, `DateTime` FROM `Process` WHERE
`Sensor_ID` = '"+Sensor+"' \
        AND `DateTime` > '"+StartTime+"' AND `DateTime` < '"+EndTime+"'
ORDER BY `DateTime` ")
        results = cursor.fetchall()
        plot_x = []
        plot_y = []
        for row in results:
        	Value = row[0]
        	#convert datetime.datetime object to epoch (seconds) object
        	Time = time.mktime(row[1].timetuple())
        	print time.strftime('%m/%d %H:%M:%S', time.localtime(Time))

        	plot_x.append(float(Time))
        	plot_y.append(float(Value))
        g = Gnuplot.Gnuplot(debug=1)
        g.title('testing')
        data = Gnuplot.Data(plot_x,plot_y)
        outfile = '/home/piv/PivData/tmp/images/graph.png'
        g('set term png')
        g('set out "%s"' % outfile)
        g('set xtics (%s)' % (tics))
        g.plot(data)

self.GraphImage.set_from_file('/home/piv/PivData/tmp/images/graph.png')



and this is the terminal output i get

gnuplot> set title "testing"
gnuplot> set term png
gnuplot> set out "/home/piv/PivData/tmp/images/graph.png"
gnuplot> set xtics (['10/18 09:54', '10/17 22:42', '10/17 11:30',
'10/17 00:18', '10/16 13:06', '10/16 01:54', '10/15 14:42', '10/15
03:30', '10/14 16:18', '10/14 05:06', '10/13 17:54', '10/13 06:42',
'10/12 19:30', '10/12 08:18', '10/25 09:54'])
gnuplot> plot '/tmp/tmpn2URt2' notitle

gnuplot> set xtics (['10/18 09:54', '10/17 22:42', '10/17 11:30',
'10/17 00:18', '10/16 13:06', '10/16 01:54', '10/15 14:42', '10/15
03:30', '10/14 16:18', '10/14 05:06', '10/13 17:54', '10/13 06:42',
'10/12 19:30', '10/12 08:18', '10/25 09:54'])
                    ^
         line 0: invalid expression


it is drawing the graph though, and it looks right compared with the
data

i noticed in the docs for gnuplot, that it can do date/time and by
default uses seconds since 2000. and then you can pass the format that
you want to show it in.
would this give the same kind of result that i am looking for ?


my math in how i am doing this is kinda off too, i think.
for the stuff i am doing on our website, i use php with jpgraph, it
does things a little
different. 

thanks for everything
shawn



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct 11 07:55:44 2005
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:55:44 +0200
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
In-Reply-To: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <434ba819$0$38698$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> I must be missing something but what is the proper way to do a function 
> using such arguments ?

> - ability to take an unspecified number of "positional arguments"

You should probably pass a sequence to the method instead. You can do it 
the other way, but it's poor coding style in most cases.


> - ability to take optional named arguments that follows the first arguments

Setting the default value to a value that cannot exist as an argument is 
the normal way. Eg. None.

def fn(vals, cmp=None)


> - raise appropriate errors if I use the wrong named arguments

def fn(*values, cmp=None):
     if cmp is None:
         raise TypeError, "'%s' is an invalid keyword argument for this 
function" % key


If you insist on doing it the other way:

FN_LEGAL_ARGS = set( ('cmp',) )

def fn(*values, **options):
     for key in options.keys():
         if not key in FN_LEGAL_ARGS:
             raise TypeError, "'%s' is an invalid keyword argument for 
this function" % key


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 20 10:14:34 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:14:34 -0400
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
References: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ocwa.184dksqmnv1q1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129712258.200656.202440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86fyqxw7ev.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1129801276.626944.96230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86oe5kuvg5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"S?b" <scapt at unil.ch> writes:

> Hi everybody,
>
> Thanks for the time taken to answer my question. Unfortunatly, it seems
> that there's a little confusion about what I want to do.
>
> In fact, I don't want to search for a particular path between
> computers. What I really want is to detect sequences of connection that
> are repeated along the log. Is it clearer, if not, I will put another
> exmample ;-)

You're right - I was confused. That's why I asked about the timing
issue. But I also indicated that I might be way off base with that.

Everyone may be confused as well - we thought you were looking for
*any* series of connections that started at one computer and ended at
a second computer. That problem is the well-understood problem of
finding a path through a graph, where "path" is used in a
graph-theoretic sense and not a network sense.

>From what you say above, it looks like you're looking for a specfic
sequence of connections in your connetions record. That's a much
easier problem. Roughly, you'd do:

def matches(desired, history):
"""Determines if history contains the desired path.
    desired = # List of connections we're looking for.
    history = # List of connections that were actually made."""

    for con in desired:
        try:
            while not con.matches(history[hp]):
                hp += 1
        except IndexError:
            return False
   return True


   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From richie at entrian.com  Mon Oct  3 06:00:13 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:00:13 +0100
Subject: Not defined
In-Reply-To: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>
References: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <q502k1d0bkqvj11q93godh6qjmvmtasd75@4ax.com>


[Rob]
> >>> from cgkit import *
> >>> Sphere()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'Sphere' is not defined

Do you have a file of your own called cgkit.py?  You're probably importing
that rather than the real thing.  Try this:

>>> import cgkit
>>> print cgkit.__file__
>>> dir(cgkit)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From elicriffield at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 16:51:50 2005
From: elicriffield at gmail.com (Eli Criffield)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 13:51:50 -0700
Subject: Web based applications are possible with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2547.1130250052.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129666596.739256.151100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2547.1130250052.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130273510.778502.107160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

not quite but close, NX is a compression protical for the X protical,
so its a lot more like a java X client then a java VNC client.

Eli



From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 31 15:36:09 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:36:09 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86br1530w7.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> Of course, you've dropped the real point, which is your own inabillity
> to distinguish between, as you put it, "guns and arguments." You
> always act as if every mention of a crime committed by someone other
> than microsoft involved guns, even when most of them don't. You have
> as yet to offer any explanation for that other than that you're
> following MS's orders.

    Your sole evidence for this claim is that I once equated "theft" with 
force. Yes, you are correct that it's possible to steal something without 
using force. Even in this case, from context, it was quite clear that 
forceful theft was intended.

    There is a fundamental category difference between the fundamental 
inter-personal wrongs of force and fraud and every other invented wrong. 
People are making a concerted attempt in this thread to obliterate that 
distinction, and I include you in those making that attempt.

    The *only* motive I have ever seen to obliterate that distinction is to 
justify responding to arguments with bullets. And that is precisely what you 
advocate. Quoting you:

> If I convince
> everyone who might make food available to you not to do so - for
> example, by paying them more than their interaction with you is worth
> to them, I can starve you to death. I'd say I've used force against
> you - an economic force.

    Your convincing and paying is an argument. It's in no way analogous to, 
for example, hiring someone to kill me (wherein force is actually used). 
Certainly if I did starve you by force, you would be justified in responding 
with force, that is, with bullets if needed, to defend your life.

    What possible motive is there for making an argument like this other 
than to justify the use of guns in response to arguments? That's why you 
need to equate metaphorical "market force" with *real* force. But there is 
no more important distinction in the world.

    Again, I utterly reject your argument. The use of actual force is 
justified only in response to force, fraud, or things that *really* are 
force.

> I'm willing to admit this isn't a usual definition of
> force, and won't argue if you want to say that it isn't force.

    The point is not whether you call it force or not. The point is whether 
you believe it justifies the use of force in retaliation. There is no 
difference between someone who says "while arguments aren't force, it's okay 
to respond to them with force" and someone who says "arguments are force so 
it's okay to respond to them with force".

    The premise I utterly and totally reject is that good arguments, shrewd 
negotiations, and anything else that is not actual force, not fraud, not 
inducing others to use force, or anything like that are somehow the same as 
real force. You have an obligation not to use actual force against other 
people, you have an obligation in a negotiation not to misrepresent your 
product to induce a payment, and failing in these obligations are serious 
wrongs. But they are in no way comparable to trying to get what something is 
worth. They are in no way comparable to persuasive negotiations.

    This point transcends the issue of Microsoft. I would make this same 
argument regardless of whose non-force were claimed to justify a forceful 
retaliation. (And have done so consistently.)

    DS




From mensanator at aol.com  Sat Oct  8 15:23:37 2005
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 12:23:37 -0700
Subject: Contest snub?
In-Reply-To: <43478bab$0$525$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <kosdk1pcvhcsu7cs2mfjpmgpaf5kthk6pi@4ax.com>
	<43478bab$0$525$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1128799417.718414.28570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Will McGugan wrote:
> maxx at easynews.com wrote:
> > Notice anything strange here? The Python entry seems to have edged the PHP
> > entries, but is not declared the victor. Source is missing as well (the archive
> > is empty.)
> >
> > http://www.apress.com/promo/fractal/seesource.html
> >
> > Hmmmm... an irrational fear of snakes perhaps?
>
> Its not irrational if you are a gator!

Furthermore, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't
out
to get you.

>
> Will McGugan
> --
> http://www.willmcgugan.com
> "".join({'*':'@','^':'.'}.get(c,0) or chr(97+(ord(c)-84)%26) for c in
> "jvyy*jvyyzpthtna^pbz")



From mhellwig at xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 15 03:34:01 2005
From: mhellwig at xs4all.nl (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:34:01 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4350b0ee$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Jeroen Wenting wrote:
<cut>
> 
> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
> mainframe terminals.
<cut>
At the time you "PC" guys where hacking around monochrome green and a 
bit lighter green screens I was doing multi-media editing on my Amiga 600.
So perhaps we should state that we would have been a lot further if not 
an incredible amount of cool technologies where bought by MS and then 
simply put in the freezer to protect their future market share.
Although Commodore where never serious competitors, they had some 
"intern" difficulties, too bad but life goes on.
To go on, stable version of truly free unix likes where released around 
1994 that was in the same time MS was working on their super stable 
released windows 95 and a slightly better NT 3.5 and let me not forget 
OS/2 warp 3.0 .

I'm not a MS basher, hey I make money of them administrating them, 
however to state that if we didn't had MS we would been in the IT stone 
ages is blatantly wrong, I think we would have been a lot further then 
where we are now. Perhaps we even had a other mainstream architecture 
like sparcs and powerpc's.

-- 
mph


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 11 14:37:36 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:37:36 +0200
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au><slrndkmo1c.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org><dig094$ntj$1@domitilla.aioe.org><pan.2005.10.11.14.20.08.619909@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h4a55d.cdmdgr1udkvayN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dih0pc$m83$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> (there is no common Python type on which you can both call
> len(...) AND the .next() method, for example -- a combination
> which really makes no sense).

>>> L = [1, 2, 3]
>>> len(L)
3
>>> I = iter(L)
>>> I
<listiterator object at 0x0091ABD0>
>>> len(I)
3
>>> I.next()
1
>>> len(I)
2
>>> I.next()
2
>>> len(I)
1
>>> I.next()
3
>>> len(I)
0
>>> I.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
StopIteration

(it's probably not a good idea to rely on this behaviour...)

</F> 





From xah at xahlee.org  Sat Oct  8 17:39:55 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 14:39:55 -0700
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128807595.122982.310790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Dear Michael Goettsche,

why don't you lead the pack to be on-topic for a change, huh?

 Xah

Michael Goettsche wrote:
> On Saturday 08 October 2005 22:10, Xah Lee wrote:
> > there is a MacPerl program posted in 1998 that uses Mac's speech synth
> > to sing Daisy Bell.
> > See:
> >
> > http://bumppo.net/lists/macperl/1998/11/msg00412.html
> >
> > can anyone modify it so it runs out of the box on today's OS X?
> >
> > PS i'm posting this also in python and lisp group, i hope it'd be some
> > general interest. For some background of this song, see
> >   http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/daisy_bell.html
> >
> > i'm interested in getting versions that can sing the song in Windows,
> > Mac, Linux using whatever speech synth each OS may provide. Thanks.
> >
> >  Xah
> >  xah at xahlee.org
> > ? http://xahlee.org/
>
> You're asking "tech geekers" and "morons" to do this job? Isn't that a task
> for somebody more professional like you?



From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Mon Oct 17 07:28:01 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 04:28:01 -0700
Subject: can a cut-down Python still be Python?
References: <1129531249.605353.204280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129548481.197637.122710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The Eternal Squire wrote:

> My main question regarding this is:  even if I am successful, would the
> results be rejected out of hand by y'all as not meeting the Zen of
> Python?

Have you ever asked a Zen master about Zen?

Kay



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 29 22:49:58 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:49:58 -0400
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>

lbolognini at gmail.com wrote:
>         if name not in expected_form1_kwargs:
>             raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword" + name
>         elif name in expected_form1_kwargs not in kwargs.keys():
>             kwargs.update(name=None)

Do you mean this instead?

      elif name in expected_form1_kwargs and name not in kwargs:

What you wrote doesn't do what you think it does...  it actually tests 
for whether True or False is a key in kwargs, depending on whether "name 
in expected_form1_kwargs" returns True or False.

-Peter


From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 17:13:16 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 14:13:16 -0700
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
Message-ID: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am writing a scada package that has a significant amount of user
defined parameters stored in text files that I wish to cleanly access
in code.  By way of an example, a few lines from the configuration file
would typically be ...

[Plant Outputs]
Y0	P1	Pump 1 Pressure
Y1	P2	Pump 2 Fluid Transfer Pump
Y2	P3	Pump 3 Vac Pump
Y3	P4	Pump 4 Vac Pump
Y4	P5	Pump 5 / Pump 1B
Y5	P6	Pump 6 / Pump 2B
Y6	M
Y7	D
Y10	E
Y11	F

I can read these values in as dictionary items and refernce them in
code like this...

Y['P4'] = 1   # Which will ultimately switch my pump on
Y['P3'] = 0   # Which will ultimately switch my pump off

but I would much rather reference the plant outputs like this ...

Y.P4 = 1
Y.P3 = 0

basically it makes it easier for third parties to code, also my IDE
(wing) is able to use intellisense to determine exactly which Y outputs
have been loaded during code configuration.

Now I can achieve this by loading the configuration parameters in a
class like this...

class c_y:
    def __init__(self):
        self.P1 = 0
        self.P2 = 0
        self.P3 = 0
        self.P4 = 0

so I can do

Y = c_y()
Y.P4 = 1
Y.P3 = 0
etc

However, what I really would like is something like...

class c_y:
    def __init__(self):
        self.P1 = [0, 'OB1', 0 ]
        self.P2 = [0, 'OB1', 1 ]
        self.P3 = [0, 'OB1', 2 ]
        self.P4 = [0, 'OB1', 3 ]

Because that way I can also hold binary loadings and data register
(this is a PLC application) references which give me full information
for handling the pump bits.

However, this means that I have to access the pump status bits like
this...

Y.P4[0] = 1
Y.P3[0] = 0

Which takes me away from the clean code

Y.P4 = 1
Y.P3 = 0

That I would like to have.

Can anyone suggets a technique for parameter storage that may be able
to give me what I want here ?

Thanks in advance.

David



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 11 06:57:25 2005
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:57:25 +0100
Subject: strange import error with Python-2.4.1
References: <mailman.1889.1129025460.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dig5qm$b2p$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Robin Becker" <robin at reportlab.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1889.1129025460.509.python-list at python.org...

> This behaviour doesn't occur with 2.4.2 or 2.4 only with 2.4.1. I looked for
> some bug fix in the recently released 2.4.2 that related, but couldn't find
> anything obvious.

One of the various codecs fixes, I think. Bug #1175396, perhaps.




From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 23:09:45 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:09:45 -0700
Subject: index and find
Message-ID: <1d987df30510222009j35f848efv1f09a5030570bedd@mail.gmail.com>

what is the difference between index and find in the module of string?
for both "find" and "index", I got the position of the letter.

On 10/19/05, Shi Mu <samrobertsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have installed Python 2.3 and I type "help()" and then "Keywords".
> I get a list of words. And it says that I can enter any of the words
> to get more help.  I enter
> "and" and I get the following error message:
> "Sorry, topic and keyword documentation is not available because the Python
> HTML documentation files could not be found.  If you have installed them,
> please set the environment variable PYTHONDOCS to indicate their location."
>
> but I have set both the environment variable, with the path to be
> C:\Python23\Doc which includes python23.chm
> Why I still got the above error message?
>


From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct 19 22:43:22 2005
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:43:22 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>

In article <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280 at tornado.texas.rr.com>,
 "Amol Vaidya" <mynewsa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have been 
> debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. How do these compare and contrast 
> with one another, and what advantages does one language provide over the 
> other? I would like to consider as many opinions as I can on this matter 
> before I start studying either language in depth. Any help/comments are 
> greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. 

Of all the common scripting languages, Ruby has the highest vowel to 
consonant ratio.


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Thu Oct 27 07:10:22 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:10:22 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djqc0r$3fd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <u5p633-5eu.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>             However, both a finding of "yes, Microsoft had a monopoly" and a 
> finding of "no, Microsoft did not have a monopoly" would both have been 
> within the trial court's discretion.

Well, of course, and they said YES (as a finding of fact).

> They could just as easily have found 
> that Linux, OSX, FreeBSD, and other operating systems competed with Windows.

It would have been irrelevant.

>     To call it an "established legal fact" is to grossly distort the 
> circumstances under which it was determined and upheld.

Uh, it's an established legal fact. So I think your logic is off there.

Peter


From rungta at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 07:51:55 2005
From: rungta at gmail.com (rungta at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 04:51:55 -0700
Subject: XMS .NET:  IBM Message Service Client for .NET Beta
Message-ID: <1129031515.857299.218720@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

IronPython and Boo developers may find this interesting:

The second refresh of the IBM Message Service Client for .NET Beta is
now
available:

http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/search.jsp?go=y&rs=message

The key enhancements in this refresh are:

- The supported messaging environments have been extended to include
IBM
WebSphere MQ 5.3 and 6 (for point to point messaging only) and WBI
Message
Broker 6.
- Several updates have been made to remove API restrictions and fix
minor
defects reported since the previous refresh or during continued
testing.
- The first full draft of the user documentation has been completed.

Further details can be found in the products readme.txt.

Any feedback or queries are welcomed at:
news://news.software.ibm.com/ibm.software.websphere.mq.beta.
But please prefix your XMS-related posts to this Beta newsgroup with
'XMS .NET:'.

About XMS .NET:

XMS .NET can connect to WebSphere MQ, The default messaging provider in

WebSphere Application Server v6 and WebSphere Business Integration
Event/Message Brokers.

An XMS application can exchange messages with any of the following
types
of application - An XMS application, a WebSphere MQ JMS application, a
native WebSphere MQ application and a JMS application that is using the

WebSphere default messaging provider. XMS applications may use
different
IBM messaging servers with little or no change.



From dawenliu at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 13:48:50 2005
From: dawenliu at gmail.com (dawenliu)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 10:48:50 -0700
Subject: extracting numbers from a file, excluding fixed words
Message-ID: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have a file with this content:
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx
1
0
0
0
1
1
0
(many more 1's and 0's to follow)
yyyyy yyyyyy yyy yyyyyy yyyyy yyy

The x's and y's are FIXED and known words which I will ignore, such as
"This is the start of the file" and "This is the end of the file".  The
digits 1 and 0 have UNKNOWN length.  I want to extract the digits and
store them in a file.  Any suggestions will be appreciated.



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 08:17:37 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 05:17:37 -0700
Subject: Feature Proposal: Sequence .join method
References: <dhjpkr$k1d$2@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1290.1128099670.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128147385.848716.158360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h43lap.mqn83nnifws2N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> I have noticed a while ago that inside generators StopIteration is
> automatically trapped, i.e.
> 
> def g():
>     yield 1
>     raise StopIteration
>     yield "Never reached"
> 
> only yields 1. Not sure if this is documented behavior, however, of if
> it is an implementation
> accident. Anybody who knows?

It yields 1 and on the next call to .next() raises StopIteration, which
is the way an iterator says it's done -- so, it yields 1 and then it's
done.  I'm not sure what you mean by "inside generators ...
automatically trapped", or what's undocumented about that.


Alex


From bulliver at badcomputer.org  Mon Oct 24 03:53:38 2005
From: bulliver at badcomputer.org (darren kirby)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:53:38 -0700
Subject: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>
Message-ID: <200510240053.48761.bulliver@badcomputer.org>

quoth the James Colannino:
> Hey everyone.  First off, I'm new to the list.  I had had a little bit
> of experience with Perl before discovering Python.  The more Python I
> learn, the more I love it :)  I just have a quick question to ask.  I
> know that this is probably a simple question, but I've been googling
> around, and partly because I'm not sure exactly what to search for, I've
> been unsuccessful at finding an answer.  What I'd like to do is be able
> to take the output of an external command and assign it as an array of
> strings.  So, for example, in Perl I could do something like:
>
> @files = `ls`;
>
> So I guess I'm looking for something similiar to the backticks in Perl.
> Forgive me if I've asked something that's a bit basic for this list.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated :)  Thanks very much in advance.

If all you want is filenames this will work:
>>> import glob
>>> files = ["%s" % f for f in glob.glob("*")]

Else use os.popen to iterate over lines of output:
>>> import os
>>> for line in os.popen("ls -l").readlines():
>>> . . . process(line)

Or check out subprocess if you have 2.4..

> James
>
> --
> My blog: http://www.crazydrclaw.com/
> My homepage: http://james.colannino.org/

-d
-- 
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
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From mensanator at aol.com  Sat Oct 29 23:18:06 2005
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 20:18:06 -0700
Subject: dreaming in Python
References: <1130625997.428653.28080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130642286.424305.270610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The Eternal Squire wrote:
> All,
>
> I have to tell all of you this, at least for some laughs.  Honestly, I
> had the silliest dream involving the language last night.  I dreamt
> that it was a decade into the future and that Grand Central Station in
> NYC was installing a cement and steel "computer core" for directing its
> trains and station elevators... and for some reason I was supervising a
> technician on the project.  I asked the technician, what version of
> Python was being used, and he said 2.1... I said better install 2.4!
> So he loaded a chip into the 15 ton cylindrical core, then the core was
> lowered by winch into a manhole cover.  The lights in the station lit,
> and I shouted:  One Python to Rule Them All And In The Darkness Bind
> Them!   Then I took an elevator downstairs to log into the terminal.
> Who did I meet on a neighboring terminal other than the BDFL?  He was
> doing something esoteric and strange on the terminal but I was just
> having trouble logging in.  End of dream.
>
> Anyone ever have a wierd engineering dream sometime in thier career?

Yeah, although I'm not sure how much was dream and how
much was conscience invention while waking up. Anyway...

In this future, every computer in the world is networked
together and all I/O devices have been replaced by the
MOUSE (Micro Optical Universal Sensing Element) by which
you control the computer just by looking at it.

I find myself in a control room overlooking a vast sea of
CRT screens (something like a NASA control center) when a
crisis occurs: somehow, every bit of every memory chip in
every computer in the entire world has become a 0
simultaneously locking up every computer with no way to
reset them.

I thought "if only I had a keyboard" but keyboards had
been obsoleted by the MOUSE. Suddenly, I get a thought,
open a drawer, and pull out the original MOUSE engineering
prototype wired to a pocket calculator. With the calculator
display showing 0, I press the 1/x key, which causes ERROR
to be displayed. But the prototype MOUSE is networked to
every other computer in the world, and I look out over the
room to see all the CRT screens light up as 1 bits propagate
across the world.

> 
> The Eternal Squire



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Thu Oct 27 16:29:16 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:29:16 -0700
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <1130436984.22172.28.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<312cfe2b0510271100y32f6163es8a27524ccc37747c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1130436984.22172.28.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
Message-ID: <200510271329.16064.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Thursday 27 October 2005 11:16, Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 14:00, Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
> > Not quite because if something(3) fails, I still want something(4) to
> > run.
>
> def something_ignore_exceptions(x):
>   try: something(x)
>   except: pass
>
> something_ignore_exceptions(1)
> something_ignore_exceptions(2)
> # etc...

I'm at the point where I don't understand why you can't use this:

def try_somethings(alist):
  def try_something(el):
    try:
      something(el)
    except e:
      do_exception(el, e)
  for an_el in alist:
    try_something(an_el)

See also <http://www.artima.com/intv/dry.html>.

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From mapisto at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 11:28:18 2005
From: mapisto at gmail.com (Mapisto)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 08:28:18 -0700
Subject: Writing an immutable object in python
Message-ID: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I've noticed that if I initialize list of integers in the next manner:

>>> my_list = [0] * 30

It works just fine, even if I'll try to assign one element:

>>> id( my_list[4] )
10900116
>>> id( my_list[6] )
10900116
>>> my_list[4] = 6
>>> id( my_list[4] )
10900044
>>> id( my_list[6] )
10900116

The change in the poision occurs becouse int() is an immutable object.

if I will do the same with a user-defined object, This reference
manipulating will not happen. So, every entry in the array will refer
to the same instance.

Is there a way to bypass it (or perhaps to write a self-defined
immutable object)?



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  7 07:36:07 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:36:07 -0500
Subject: recursive function
In-Reply-To: <1128685027_118871@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<Ge-dnXvNWpFI1t3eRVn-jw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.1671.1128683058.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128685027_118871@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1128685124_118877@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


> def foo(j):
>     while j < n:
>     j+=1
>     return j
> 

of course I mean:
def foo(j):
     while j < n:
         j+=1
     return j

sorry


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
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From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Tue Oct 18 06:51:34 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:51:34 +0200
Subject: html parser?
In-Reply-To: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
References: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <4354D3B6.3070001@designaproduct.biz>

Christoph S?llner wrote:

>Hi *,
>
>is there a html parser available, which could i.e. extract all links from a 
>given text like that:
>"""
><a href="foo.php?param1=test">BAR<img src="none.gif"></a>
><a href="foo2.php?param1=test&param2=test">BAR2</a>
>"""
>
>and return a set of dicts like that:
>"""
>{
>  ['foo.php','BAR','param1','test'],
>  ['foo2.php','BAR2','param1','test','param2','test']
>}
>"""
>
>thanks,
>Chris 
>  
>
I asked the same question a week ago, and the answer I got was a really 
beautiful one. :-)

http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/

  Les



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct  4 17:13:39 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:13:39 +0200
Subject: Call C functions from Python
In-Reply-To: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4342f083$0$27677$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Java and Swing wrote:
> Is there some other way, besides SWIG, which will allow me to call
> functions inside an Ansi C DLL?

You could write an extension module. See Modules/xxmodule.c in
the Python source tree, as well as

http://docs.python.org/ext/ext.html

In the specific case, if it weren't for the digits argument,
the wrapper function would read

static PyObject*
Py_DoSomeStuff(PyObject*unused, PyObject* args)
{
   char *input;
   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple("s:DoSomeStuff", &input))
     return NULL;
   return PyString_FromString(DoSomeStuff(input));
}

I cannot extend this to digits, as I don't know how
the digits are represented if there is more than one
(i.e. how does DoSomeStuff know how many digits are
being passed?)

If DoSomeStuff returns NULL on errors, additional
exception throwing is necessary. If DoSomeStuff returns
memory that the caller needs to release, you need to
do so before returning from Py_DoSomeStuff.

Regards,
Martin


From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 14:25:36 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 11:25:36 -0700
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130351136.239757.14750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Sounds like the Bunch:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52308



From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 10 18:35:14 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:35:14 +0200
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r08l2Fgbm87U1@uni-berlin.de>

> Thanks, Steve and Diez, for the replies. I didn't think it was
> possible, but it was worth asking :-)
> 
> I will try to explain my experience with popen() briefly.
> 
> I have some sql scripts to create tables, indexes, procedures, etc. At
> present there are about 50 scripts, but this number will grow. I have
> been running them manually so far. Now I want to automate the process.
> 
> I am supporting PostgreSQL and MS SQL Server, and the syntax is
> slightly different in some cases. Rather than maintain two sets of
> scripts, I prefix some lines with -pg- or -ms- to indicate the
> platform, and then use Python to parse the scripts and generate a
> correct output for each platform, passing it to 'psql' and 'osql'
> respectively, using popen().

Why don't youn use te python DB-Api instead?


Regards,

Diez


From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 07:25:32 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 04:25:32 -0700
Subject: replacments for stdio?
In-Reply-To: <1128548582.759883.326290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1127477278.036977.189230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127670588.872596.117560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128079278.563621.8310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128548582.759883.326290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128597932.529665.51810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

yes,
    I've tried it aswell - nice work indeed!

now, maybe also get stdin to work from this TK window... ;-)



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 24 04:26:04 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:26:04 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1h4s749.ymflktenta21N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1h4s749.ymflktenta21N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <435c9a9c$0$14034$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Alex Martelli wrote:
(snip)
> Here's a tiny script showing some similarities and differences:
> 
> def f()
>   i = 0
>   while i < 1000000
>     j = 923567 + i
>     i += 1
>   end
> end
> 
> f()
> 
> comment out the 'end' statements, and at colons

s/at/add/

> at the end of the def
> and while statements, and this is also valid Python.  

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 16:20:49 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:20:49 +0200
Subject: Run process with timeout
References: <1129547240.998935.126970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kw2y.1r4xzk31tnakucN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2171.1129566392.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h4lkml.gx8kslqnnnflN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:

> Is there any way to enable Python's subprocess module to do (implicit?)
> group setup to ease killing of all children?  If not, is it a reasonable
> RFE?

Not as far as I know.  It might be a reasonable request in suitable
dialects of Unix-like OSes, though.  A setpgrp call (in the callback
which you can request Popen to perform, after it forks and before it
execs) might suffice... except that you can't rely on children process
not to setpgrp's themselves, can you?!


Alex


From rdsteph at mac.com  Sun Oct 23 16:57:40 2005
From: rdsteph at mac.com (rdsteph at mac.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 13:57:40 -0700
Subject: TurboGears the Podcast
Message-ID: <1130101060.637269.107200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Can be found at http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html



From quncao at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 19:01:34 2005
From: quncao at gmail.com (Qun Cao)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 16:01:34 -0700
Subject: threading/forking and IPC
In-Reply-To: <1129324983.191413.183680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129324184.818503.7760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129324983.191413.183680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129330894.542226.105200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks David, 
This seems like the exact thing I am looking for!



From slolife at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 13:35:49 2005
From: slolife at gmail.com (Chris  Becker)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 10:35:49 -0700
Subject: Using scons zip builder to create zip
Message-ID: <1129656949.371520.255720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What I am looking for is how to call the builder so that it does not
recurse directories and does not add paths:

zipFile = env.Zip(outputFile, sourcePath)

I seen something in the docs about ZIPFLAGS env var, but there is no
documentation on what the options are.

Anyone have any help or links?



From iddw at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 17:29:44 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:29:44 GMT
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<di5a0b$ag0$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510071528.25305.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<mailman.1724.1128717987.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128720591.a8e9c248184102411afab1fc563a3e4d@teranews>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:44:29 +0100, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
wrote:

>Terry Hancock wrote:
>> On Friday 07 October 2005 03:01 am, Steve Holden wrote:
>> 
>>>OK, so how do you account for the execresence "That will give you a 
>>>savings of 20%", which usage is common in America?
>> 
>> 
>> In America, anyway, "savings" is a collective abstract noun 
>> (like "physics" or "mechanics"), there's no such
>> noun as "saving" (that's present participle of "to save"
>> only).  How did you expect that sentence to be rendered?
>> Why is it an "execresence"?
>> 
>Precisely because there *is* such a thing as a saving. If I buy a $100 
>gumball for $80 I have achieved a saving of 20%.

FWIW, my dictionary has a usage note: 

   /Savings/ (plural noun) is not preceded by the singular /a/, except
   loosely:"The price represents a savings (properly /saving/) of ten
   dollars."  In the foregoing, considered as an example in writing,
   /savings/ is unacceptable to 89 per cent the Usage Panel.

(Words enclosed in /slashes/ represent italics.)

The dictionary? "The American Heritage Dictionary of the English
Language, New College Edition."

Still sounds wrong to me, though.

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From sjmaster at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 14:00:17 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 11:00:17 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129226416.992719.201900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Here is an article discussing the coding style of BitTorrent.

http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2003/7/17/pythonnews.html

Maybe that code is worth looking at.



From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Mon Oct 17 03:03:34 2005
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 00:03:34 -0700
Subject: can a cut-down Python still be Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129531249.605353.204280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129531249.605353.204280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129532614.279724.176690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you mean missing out some of the libraries then that would be
different to missing out core functionality sucjh as generators or list
expressions,...

In general, if the end task is not to present the world with a new
programming language then it's usually best to choose from the
available, supported languages rather than creating your own.

Maybe you should take a look at, for example, Lua:
  http://www.lua.org/

But if the trail leads back to Python, then go for it :-)

- Pad.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 10:53:07 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:53:07 +0200
Subject: Call C functions from Python
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128514161.835258.138730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1528.1128517749.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128522414.964010.65970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0pcf$puo$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Java and Swing" wrote:

>>> from ctypes import *
>>> myapp = cdll.LoadLibrary("c:\\myapp.dll")
>>> dumpbin /exports myapp.pyd
>
> i get, SyntaxError: invalid syntax with it pointing at the first "p" in
> myapp.pyd.

dumpbin is a command-line utillity, usually included in the compiler
toolsuite...

</F> 





From cjw at sympatico.ca  Fri Oct 28 09:48:27 2005
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:48:27 -0400
Subject: how to associate files with application
In-Reply-To: <djsoqs$jk$3@sadr.dfn.de>
References: <1130439184.801178.280190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djsoqs$jk$3@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <E_p8f.7819$ki7.583245@news20.bellglobal.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> Ashok wrote:
> 
>> hi,
>> i want to know how to make a specific type of file open in an
>> application i developed in python when the user clicks on the file.(in
>> windows) for eg. a .txt file when clicked opens in notepad, a .doc file
>> when clicked opens in MS-word. In the same way i want to make a .xyz
>> file open in the application i developed when clicked.
>> thanks in advance for any advice.
>>
> 
> You need to add several registry keys to do this, here's a short version 
> of what you need to do:
> 
> Example assumes you want to:
> 
> 1. associate .ext with C:\Program Files\MyProgram\prog.exe
> 2. pass on any extra arguments to prog.exe (ie. test.ext 1 2 3 would 
> send 1 2 3 as well to prog.exe)
> 3. associate the icon of prog.exe to any file with a .ext extension
> 
> Ok, here's what you need to do:
> 
> 1. Under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, add a key (folder) with the name .ext
> 2. Open that key, and set the (Default) value to MyProgramExtendedFile 
> (this name is something you choose yourself and should be a "identifier" 
> that identifies the file type. If your program supports several types of 
> files, make up unique identifiers for each.)
> 3. Under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, add another key, this time with the same 
> name you made up in 2. above, ie MyProgramExtendedFile
> 4. Open that key, and set the (Default) value to a textual description 
> of the type of file. This is what will show up in explorer in the file 
> type column. If you leave this empty, the description will be .EXT File
> 5. Inside MyProgramExtendedFile, add another key with the name shell 
> (lower-case is typical, can probably be Shell or whatever)
> 6. Inside shell, create another key with the name open
> 7. Inside open, create another key with the name command
> 8. Inside command, Set the (Default) value to:
>    "C:\Program Files\MyProgram\prog.exe" "%1" %*
> 
>    Note that you need the quotes as specified above, exactly like written
> 
> 9. Go back to MyProgramExtendedFile and create another key with the name 
> DefaultIcon
> 10. Inside DefaultIcon, set (Default) value to:
>     "C:\Program Files\MyProgram\prog.exe", 0
> 
>     This will pick the first icon in prog.exe resource to show for the 
> files. Use 1 for second, etc.
> 
> There are also other commands you can add. If you want to be able to 
> right-click on the file and select a menu item to process the file in a 
> specific way, for instance by passing along specific parameters to 
> prog.exe, you can add more keys than "open" on the level open is 
> created. The (Default) value inside the key is then the text of the menu 
> item.
> 
> To find examples, just find a file extension in Windows that behaves the 
> way you want your own to behave and look through HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.ext 
> to find the details you want.
> 
I'm no Windows expert but I think that, using Windows Explorer, one can, 
with a right mouse click, select "Open With".

You can then choose the appropriate executable.  I believe that, if you 
had set the "Always open with this program" box, then the registry is 
automatically updated.

Colin W.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 21:29:59 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:29:59 -0700
Subject: Numeric array equivalent of index ?
In-Reply-To: <20051015024618.655167de@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
References: <20051015024618.655167de@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <dipm2n$5jp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to find a clear and fast equivalent to the index method of
> plain python list :
> 
>>>a = [5,1,4,3,4]
>>>a.index(4)
> 
> 2
> 
> I have to use it on a Numeric array, so the best I've come up with is
> (rather ugly I think) :
> 
>>>from Numeric import array, equal, nonzero
>>>a = array([5,1,4,3,4])
>>>nonzero(equal(a,4))[0]
> 
> 2
> 
> Does someone know of a more Pythonic way ?

There's a list for Numeric. You'll get better answers there.

  http://numeric.scipy.org/

And no, no one has bothered adding a .index() equivalent for general,
unsorted arrays.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 20:02:00 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:02:00 -0700
Subject: python plotting with greek symbols within labels recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhv55o$g5t$1@sea.gmane.org>

michael.s.gilbert at gmail.com wrote:
> hello all,
> 
> this message is geared toward those of you in the scientific community.
> i'm looking for a python plotting library that can support rendering
> greek symbols and other various characters on plot axes labels, etc. I
> would prefer something that adheres to tex formatting (as implemented
> in latex, matlab, etc and has the form $\alpha$ to represent the greek
> character alpha for example).
> 
> thus far, i've found that matplotlib
> (http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/) can do this, albeit the
> implementation is so poor that you cannot mix standard text with
> symbols on the same plot element.

You can if you have TeX installed and enable text.usetex in your
configuration. E.g.

In [4]: title('This is $\Gamma$reek to me.')

There isn't much out there that allows a reasonably full range of TeX
without calling out to TeX.

If you want to improve the non-TeX fallback for matplotlib's mathtext
module to support math-mode text embedded in plain text, I'm sure John
would love to see your contribution. It shouldn't be that hard; it's
just nobody's had the motivation to work on it given the availability of
real TeX labels.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com  Sun Oct 30 05:31:30 2005
From: uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com (Francach)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 02:31:30 -0800
Subject: Problem with exe from py2exe
Message-ID: <1130668290.546611.277970@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm using python 2.4.1, wxPython 2.6.1.0 and py2exe 1.6.3 on Windows
XP.

My script runs fine with python, but the .exe produced with py2exe
crashes out with:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "App1.py", line 4, in ?
  File "wx\__init__.pyc", line 42, in ?
  File "wx\_core.pyc", line 3163, in ?
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute
'wxEVT_SCROLL_ENDSCROLL'

I've looked under
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/Py2Exe to see if this
is a known issue, but no luck. Anybody seen this one before?

Thanks,
Martin.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 16:31:20 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:31:20 +0100
Subject: dictionnaries and lookup tables
In-Reply-To: <1129056624.073937.207160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1913.1129054654.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129056624.073937.207160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dih7ep$c7m$1@sea.gmane.org>

m.barenco at gmail.com wrote:
>>Sure they're implemented.
> 
> 
> Oops, my apologies.
> 
> Just to build up on that, when I run:
> 
> #start of listing
> import random
> 
> A={1:None,2:None,"hello":None,(1,2,3):None}
> 
> def dictcomp(n):
> 	for i in range(n):
> 		B=A.copy()
> 		C=A.copy()
> 		b=random.uniform(0,1)
> 		c=random.uniform(0,1)
> 		B[b]=None
> 		C[c]=None
> 		res=((B>C)==(b>c))
> 		print res,
> 
> dictcomp(1000)
> #end of listing
> 
> I get 1000 True's on the output, which suggests that key-wise ordering
> is implemented in some guise. The question is: how do I access that?
> 
You don't. There is no ordering of the keys, so there is no way that you 
can implement the function you want.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From deets at web.de  Fri Oct  7 08:21:59 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 05:21:59 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128687719.783871.50090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

> Now some of the Python-is-perfect crowd seems to suffer from a "Blub
> paradox" (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BlubParadox).  They see annoying,
> static typed languages like C and Java, and they see pleasant,
> dynamically typed languages like Python, and conclude that static
> types = annoying, when in fact they can be orthogonal.  So, can there
> be a language that's both statically typed, and pleasant?  I haven't
> used one yet, but lately I've been reading about Haskell and want to
> give it a try.

Nobody says that there can't be possibly better languages like python
overall, or for specific tasks. However, this discussion is about
introducing type-checking to python. And as someone who has done his
fair share of FP programming let me assure you that

 - all declarations are fully type annotated. The inference only comes
into play on _expressions_. The result in python would be that you'd
have to write

def foo(x:int):int :
     return 10

but then could use

x = foo()

which made the inference possible. But it _doesn't figure out that foo
returns an int because there is one returned, and misses the :int in
the declaration! Genericity is reached through solving somewhat more
complicated type equations - but these still require declarations:

def bar(l:list[whatever]):whatever :
     return head(l)

x = bar([10])

can be resolved as [] will me a list-constructor that gets passed an
int literal - wich in turn means that whatever as type-variable is
bound to int, and thus x is an int, as that is the return type of bar.

 - FPs share their own set of problems - try writing a server. The have
inherent troubles with event-driven programs. Then you need monads, and
that makes things a little bit more ugly...

Still, FP is cool. But python too. And just attaching some
type-inference to python won't work.

Diez



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Oct 12 13:35:53 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 17:35:53 GMT
Subject: C Extension - return an array of longs or pointer?
References: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkqcn8.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 12 Oct 2005 04:46:34 -0700, Java and Swing <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:
...
> ...my question is...in the c code, result is a pointer to an array of
> longs, how can I get the returned result to be a list or something
> similar to an array in Python?

RTFM. There are API functions to create an empty list [] and to append
objects to a list. PyList_something(), I think.

> ...I also have a function which returns a character array (denoted by a
> char *)...would it work the same as the previous question?

You might want to return this as a Python string, even if it's just random
octet data garbage. Depends on what that data really represents, but it's a
common idiom, and modules like struct and array expect their data to be
strings. Note that Python strings may contain NUL bytes.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 20:46:39 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:46:39 -0400
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
Message-ID: <BAY103-F218ABAFCBAF1361D06D749A2870@phx.gbl>

Alright heres another noob question for everyone.  Alright, say I have a 
menu like this.

print "1. . .Start"
print "2. . .End"
choice1 = raw_input("> ")

and then I had this to determine what option.


if choice1 in ('1', 'Start', 'start'):
    #do first option
if choice1 in ('2', 'End', 'end'):
    #do second option

Is there a way (I searched for a module but didnt find one) that I can do 
something like this?

if choice1 in ('1', 'S', 's'):
    #do first option
if choice1 in ('2', 'E', 'e'):
    #do second option


For instance I could type in Stop and would get the first option since it 
had an "s" in it?
Anyone heard of any way to do this?

Thanks,
-Ivan



By the way, if anyone gets tired of my persistant noob questions please tell 
me I don't want to bother anyone =D

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From petri.savolainen at iki.fi  Tue Oct  4 12:46:29 2005
From: petri.savolainen at iki.fi (Petri Savolainen)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:46:29 +0100
Subject: Python TNEF (winmail.dat attachment access) library?
In-Reply-To: <dhr1uh$5g8$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <dhr1uh$5g8$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4342B1E5.8070402@iki.fi>

Thanks for your comments. I just posted the first draft of a pure-python 
library called "pytnef" at python cheeseshop. Note that this is so far 
merely a conversion of the Ruby library. Some important functionality is 
missing, there seem to be some problems, but it's a start.

I also tried a few tools that claim to decode TNEF and most of them 
actually fail to extract attachments according my tests (used 
winmail.dat attachments saved from Mozilla Thunderbird). So if you'd 
happen to know of TNEF decoders that _work_, please let me know.

Regards,

    Petri

Petri Savolainen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> has anyone seen such a beast? I tried googling, PyPI, Parnassus etc. but 
> could not find any pure-python code nor extensions to interface with any 
> of the existing implementations.
> 
> I am thinking about taking the Ruby code I found at
> 
> http://www.zweknu.org/technical/index.rhtml?s=p%7c15
> 
> and converting that to Python. I have no experience with Ruby so this 
> will be rather interesting...
> 
> I guess another option would be to use CTypes to plug into some tnef 
> shared library/DLL. I'd prefer a pure-python route though...
> 
> Any pointers/recommendations appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>   Petri
> 



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 11:20:59 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:20:59 +0200
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org><1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><1128694740.418262.95470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di63p0$v7d$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> In fact, i want to sort the list based on the 'allocated attribute' and
> at the same time, test membership based on the id attribute.
> __cmp__ logically implies an ordering test

really?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=compare

    com?pare
    v. com?pared, com?par?ing, com?pares
    v. tr.
    1. To consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous; liken.
    2. To examine in order to note the similarities or differences of.
    /.../

> not an identity test.

it's not an identity test.  it's a comparision, and the "in" operator
uses it to determine *equality*, not identity.  you need to read
up on object comparisions in the reference manual.

</F>





From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct  4 06:16:37 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 10:16:37 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-04, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>:
> Mike Meyer wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
>> 
>>>Declared variables have considerable labour costs, and only marginal
>>>gains. Since the steps you take to protect against other errors will also
>>>protect against mistyping variables, declarations of variables is of
>>>little practical benefit.
>> 
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, this is as much hearsay and personal experience
>> as the alternate claim that not having them costs you lots of
>> debugging time and errors. If anyone has pointers to real research
>> into this area (I've heard the TRAK folks did some, but haven't been
>> able to turn any up), I'd love to hear it.
>
> Sorry, I have no hard research to point to. If I did, I 
> would have referenced it.
>
>> My gut reaction is that it's a wash. The time taken to declare
>> variables in well-written code in a well-designed language - meaning
>> the declarations and use will be close together - isn't all that
>> great, but neither are the savings.
>
> It isn't the typing time to declare variables, it is 
> the context switching. You're focused on implementing 
> an algorithm, realise you need to declare another 
> variable, your brain does a mini-context switch, you 
> scroll up to the declaration section, you declare it, 
> you scroll back to where you were, and now you have to 
> context switch again.
>
> You've gone from thinking about the implementation of 
> the algorithm to thinking about how to satisfy the 
> requirements of the compiler. As context switches go, 
> it isn't as big as the edit-compile-make-run method of 
> testing, but it is still a context switch.
>

Nobody forces you to work this way. You can just finish
your algorithm and declare your variables afterwards.

Besides likewise things can happen in python. If you
suddenly realise your class needs an instance variable,
chances are you will have to add initialisation code
for that instance variable in the __init__ method.
So either you do a context switch from implementing
whatever method you were working on to the initialisation
in __init__ and back or you just code without 
initialisation, intending to go back an do it later.

> Or you just code without declaring, intending to go 
> back and do it later, and invariably forget.

What's the problem, the compilor will allert you
to your forgetfullness and you can then correct
them all at once.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From rune.strand at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 17:01:23 2005
From: rune.strand at gmail.com (Rune Strand)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 14:01:23 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1945.1129109694.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1945.1129109694.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> those modules are already imported when Python gets to your code, so
> the only "overhead" you're saving is a little typing.

I don't understand this. Could you please elaborate?  - if sys or os
are not imported for any other causes how are they already imported?
Maybe I'm wrong here, and accessing the filesystem and reading the
module into memory represents no cost. My mistake, in that case.

> wow.  that's one lousy optimization...

> here's a *shorter* piece of code, which is also readable and portable, and
> a lot easier to type on most keyboards:

>   import os
>  __filename__ = os.path.basename(__file__)

It may be lousy, but it requires no imports. And, as I said in the
answer to Steve, I _know_ there are many ways to achieve this,
including yours. But in your rush to pin-point lousy code, you didn't
read that, I suppose.



From richie at entrian.com  Mon Oct  3 08:41:54 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:41:54 +0100
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <rm92k1pst7lhi452jjmgcnuoh6hrvlvsk7@4ax.com>


[Andrew]
> Is it just me, or does python-list at python.org not send with a Reply- 
> To header?

It's not just you.  I don't get one either.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 17 10:26:46 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:26:46 -0500
Subject: reading hebrew text file
In-Reply-To: <1129558279.759330.199890@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129558279.759330.199890@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051017142646.GA18644@unpythonic.net>

I looked for "VAV" in the files in the "encodings" directory
(/usr/lib/python2.4/encodings/*.py on my machine).  I found that the following
character encodings seem to include hebrew characters:
	cp1255
	cp424
	cp856
	cp862
	iso8859-8
A file containing hebrew text might be in any one of these encodings, or
any unicode-based encoding.

To open an encoded file for reading, use
	f = codecs.open(file, 'r', encoding='...')
Now, calls like 'f.readline()' will return unicode strings.

Here's an example, using a file in UTF-8 I have laying around:
>>> f = codecs.open("/users/jepler/txt/UTF-8-demo.txt", "r", "utf-8")
>>> for i in range(5): print repr(f.readline())
... 
u'UTF-8 encoded sample plain-text file\n'
u'\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\u203e\n'
u'\n'
u'Markus Kuhn [\u02c8ma\u02b3k\u028as ku\u02d0n] <mkuhn at acm.org> \u2014 1999-08-20\n'
u'\n'

Jeff
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From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 19 02:19:28 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:19:28 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1129685728.880635.128930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129698050.381751.81240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj4ohi$tcv$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote in message 
news:1129698050.381751.81240 at o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> Rethink what you are saying. You'll see that what you propose as
> reasons for one, is actually for the other.

    Nonsense. It is plain error to change what someone said and claim they 
said it, even if you think that what you are changing isn't important.

    DS




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct  3 12:13:03 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:13:03 +1000
Subject: Will python never intend to support private,
	protected and  public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.29.14.16.01.588394@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1142.1128003951.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhgvob$h7g$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<slrndjpp87.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dhjnst$2ha$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<slrndk1tjq.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.03.16.13.03.845134@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:14:34 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> If you are in a project with
> multiple authors, your usage of private variables can break code
> that other people rely on.

If you are in a project with multiple authors, your usage of PUBLIC
variables can break code that other people rely on.

That's why you have testing. You do test, don't you?



-- 
Steven.



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Tue Oct 25 13:10:37 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:10:37 -0500
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BPudnYPVt7u2-sPeRVn-qg@comcast.com>

usgog at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a config file with the following contents:
> service A = {
>   params {
>     dir = "c:\test",
>     username = "test",
>     password = "test"
>   }
> }
> 
> I want to find username and replace the value with another value. I
> don't know what the username value in advance though. How to do it in
> python?
> 
I know this is not what you asked, but why not convert to a
configuration file that can be processed by ConfigParser?

[service_A]
dir=C:\test
username=test
password=test

Then you can do the following to change:

import ConfigParser
INI=ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
INI.read(r'C:\program.ini')
INI.set('service_A','username','newusername')
fp=open(r'c:\program.ini','w')
INI.write(fp)
fp.close()

Larry Bates


From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 01:34:16 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:34:16 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86fyqzzskt.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support and
>> what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both irrelevant.
>
> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser.

Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), that's 
not a feasible goal.
. 




From gagenellina at softlab.com.ar  Wed Oct 26 08:45:12 2005
From: gagenellina at softlab.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 05:45:12 -0700
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <djnk8d$1cq$1@news.tsua.net>
References: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djnk8d$1cq$1@news.tsua.net>
Message-ID: <1130330712.518129.175540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Maksim Kasimov ha escrito:

> As far i know, in pickle-file there are only attributes values of a pickled object, but not an object itself.
>
> It is possible to unpickle object only if you have the sourse of the class that object you have pickled.
> So, if you have class code and attribute values of the class instance, there is no problem to produce a textual representation of the object. Isn't it?

Yes, but I need it for many different objects, some of them written by
other people. Please see my next post for clarification.

Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL



From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Mon Oct 24 08:35:13 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:35:13 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djglnk$jq8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <5y47f.174197$RW.59989@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
 
>    This is about whether we're talking *ABOUT* America, you idiot. It's as 
> if he said the press has no freedom, and I replied, "if you want to talk 
> about some country where that's true, fine, but this discussion presumed 
> America as the basis".
 
>    Remember, he is the one who said the government owned the economy. That 
> may be true in some countries, but it's simply *FALSE* in this country. Our 
> government has limited powers and ownership of the economy is not one of 
> them.

I see that you cannot make a reasoned argument against the fact that
property in the form of houses is taxed in America.

Also may I remind you that these newsgroups are international.

Axel
 


From dmozzherin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 11:29:31 2005
From: dmozzherin at gmail.com (dimus)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 08:29:31 -0700
Subject: Agile Job Opening at Lond Island, NY
Message-ID: <1129130971.289533.306540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

We are looking for an Agile/XP developer to expand our small team of
programmers (5 members). This is a full time position.

For more information about this posting go to:
http://naples.cc.sunysb.edu/Admin/CampusJob.nsf/af51a98c4c56cd5c85256731006ae132/ed74d7b69bd353428525709200571558?OpenDocument

Candidates may apply online through the link above or send resumes to:
Linda Greenstein
Medical Informatics Department
SUNY 8330
Stony Brook, NY
11794-8330



From joesb.coe9 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:36:26 2005
From: joesb.coe9 at gmail.com (Pisin Bootvong)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 00:36:26 -0700
Subject: Pythot doc problem: lambda keyword...
In-Reply-To: <1128925487.783702.198410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128925487.783702.198410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128929786.734783.296990@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Xah Lee ?????:
> i'm trying to lookup on the detail of language Python's ?lambda?
> function feature. I've seen it before, but today i need to read about
> it again since i'm writing. I quickly went to the index page:
> http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/genindex.html
> but all i got is a LambdaType.
>
> i'm thinking, maybe built-in functions are not listed there. Lo, but
> map() and friends are there. O, maybe i'm confused and ?lambda? is
> actually a keyword by this particular language's feelings, but Lo,
> ?while? is certainly a keyword but it is there.
>
> Fuck the Python liers and ignorant fuckheads. Motherfucking don't know
> shit and yet lying thru their teeth with fanfare.
>
> (for the technical context and justification of this message, please
> see the essays at the bottom of:
> http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python.html )
>
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/

I knew I shouldn't feed the troll, but anyway.

'lambda' is a keyword. So there's no doubt looking in LIBRARY Reference
and not finding it.
There exists a document called LANGUAGE Reference, with description of
'lambda' keyword. http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/ref/lambdas.html.
('while' statement is also documented in Language Reference.)


So to quote from Xah Lee:
> Fuck the [...] ignorant fuckheads. Motherfucking don't know
> shit and yet lying thru their teeth [...].


You can't complain about lacks of knowledge if you don't know where to
look.
BTW, you post to the wrong group.

Regards,



From http  Mon Oct  3 00:38:50 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 21:38:50 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
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	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
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	<86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> I'd say CPython was missing the features that you need to guarantee
> that. Missing quite a *lot* of features, in fact. But Python has never
> been about keeping people from writing bad code - it's about helping
> people write good code.

Privilege separation is considered a good coding practice.  How does
Python help it?  That's what got this started.  In the first
nontrivial Python program I wrote, I tried to use private variables
(which didn't exist) and ended up using using an RPC kludge (described
in other post).

> Pretty much every attempt to restrict what other programmers do in
> Python has failed - for "implementation issues". I think that's a good
> sign that this kind of thing isn't going to work without some serious
> work on the interpreter.

You could take it as a sign that the interpreter could benefit from
some serious work.  It's probably hopeless in CPython.  I don't know
the situation in Jython.  I'll be interested to find out what happens
with PyPy.  Reimplementating the interpreter in Python surely
qualifies as serious work either way.


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 15 18:38:03 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:38:03 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1h42zdb.1hqmbvr101wlsoN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <435153ab.80675455@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:56:12 -0700, aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>   ...
>> >>   egold = 0:
>> >>   while egold < 10:
>> >>     if test():
>> >>       ego1d = egold + 1
>> >> 
>> >
>> > Oh come on. That is a completely contrived example,
>> 
>> No it is not. You may not have had any use for this
>> kind of code, but unfamiliary with certain types
>> of problems, doesn't make something contrived.
>
>It's so contrived it will raise a SyntaxError due to the spurious extra
>colon on the first line;-).
>
Glad to see a smiley ;-)

>Or, consider, once the stray extra colon is fixed:
>
[... demonstration of effective tool use to diagnose contrived[1] snippet's problems ...]

[1] the code snippet certainly seems contrived to me too. Not sure whether entire class of code
that it may have been intended to represent is contrived, but I'm willing to give the benefit
of the doubt if I sense no ill will ;-)
[...]
>
>> > It would give the 
>> > programmer a false sense of security since they 'know' all their 
>> > misspellings are caught by the compiler. It would not be a substitute for
>> > run-time testing.
>> 
>> I don't think anyone with a little bit of experience will be so naive.
This strikes me as a somewhat provocative and unfortunately ambiguous statement ;-)

The way I read it was to assume that Antoon was agreeing with the judgement that
the 'sense of security' would be false, and that he was saying that an experienced
programmer would not be so naive as to feel secure about the correctness of his
code merely on the basis of a compiler's static checks (and thus skip run-time testing).

>
>Heh, right.  After all, _I_, for example, cannot have even "a little bit
>of experience" -- after all, I've been programming for just 30 years
>(starting with my freshman year in university), and anyway all I have to
>show for that is a couple of best-selling books, and a stellar career
>culminating (so far) with my present job as Uber Technical Lead for
>Google, Inc, right here in Silicon Valley... no doubt Google's reaching
>over the Atlantic to come hire me from Italy, and the US government's
>decision to grant me a visa under the O-1 category (for "Aliens with
>Outstanding Skills"), were mere oversights on their part that,
>obviously, I cannot have even "a little bit of experience", given that I
>(like great authors such as Bruce Eckel and Robert Martin) entirely
>agree with the opinion you deem "so naive"... that any automatic
>catching of misspellings can never be a substitute for unit-testing!
I somehow don't think Antoon was really disagreeing with that (maybe because after
45+ years of programming and debugging I think it would be too absurd ;-)
>
>
>Ah well -- my good old iBook's settings had killfiles for newsreaders,
>with not many entries, but yours, Antoon, quite prominent and permanent;
>unfortunately, that beautiful little iBook was stolen
>(http://www.papd.org/press_releases/8_17_05_fix_macs_211.html), so I got
Ugh, bad luck ... but if it had to happen, better that it wasn't from your home.

>myself a brand new one (I would deem it incorrect to use for personal
>purposes the nice 15" Powerbook that Google assigned me), and it takes
>some time to reconstruct all the settings.  But, I gotta get started
>sometime -- so, welcome, o troll, as the very first entry in my
>brand-new killfile.
I'd urge you to reconsider, and see if you really see trollish _intent_
in Antoon ;-)

>
>In other words: *PLONK*, troll!-)
IMO that's a bit harsh, especially coming from a molto certified heavyweight ;-)

Antoon doesn't strike me as having the desire to provoke for the sake of provoking,
which seems to me to be the sine qua non hallmark of trolls. Of course anyone
with any ego is likely to be feel like posting defensive tit-for-tat to "correct"
any inadequate appreciation of worth coming from the other side, and that can degenerate
into something that looks like pure troll postings, but I think that is normal succumbing
to ego temptations, not signs true trollishness. E.g., ISTM Antoon and Diez were managing
rather well, both being frustrated in getting points across, but both displaying patience
and a certain civility. To me, the "winning" posts are the ones that further the development
of the "truth" about the topic at hand, and avoid straying into ad hominem irrelevancies.
OTOH, I think everyone is entitled at least to ask if a perceived innuendo was real and
intentional (and should be encouraged to do so before launching a counter-offence).
Sometimes endless niggling and nitpicking gets tiresome, but I don't think that is necessarily
troll scat either. And one can always tune out ;-)

Anyway, thanks for the pychecker and pylint demos. And I'm glad that we can enjoy your posts again,
even if for a limited time.

-- Martellibot admirer offering his .02USD for peace ... ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 17 20:46:22 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:46:22 -0400
Subject: ordered keywords?
In-Reply-To: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <435443e9$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Ron Adam wrote:
> drawshapes( triangle=3, square=4, color=red,
>             polygon(triangle, color),
>             polygon(square, color) )
> 
> This comes close to the same pattern used in SVG and other formats where 
> you have definitions before expressions.

Why is this better than the obvious
triangle=3
square=4
color=red
drawshapes(polygon(triangle, color),
             polygon(square, color) )

or even
drawshapes(polygon(3, red),
             polygon(4, red) )

which is concise and readable IMO...?

Kent


From microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com  Mon Oct 24 06:28:15 2005
From: microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com (microsnot)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:28:15 +1000
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1km2me5ltd4xm$.2hz1vh3pgu03$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <BF82F45F.898B%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>


> Fast install: just go to the update manager (inside the help menu) and add
> update site: http://pydev.sf.net/updates/ (eclipse should do the rest)

Too easy! Thanks.



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 23:13:52 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:13:52 -0400
Subject: Newbie Text Processing Question
In-Reply-To: <1128481479.661502.14020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128481479.661502.14020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510042013t1c3854ecg29ae5648cef5a12f@mail.gmail.com>

That's how Python works. You read in the whole file, edit it, and write it
back out. As far as I know there's no way to edit a file "in place" which
I'm assuming is what you're asking?

And now, cue the responses telling you to use a fancy parser (XML?) for your
project ;-)

-Greg


On 4 Oct 2005 20:04:39 -0700, gshepherd281 at earthlink.net <
gshepherd281 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm a total newbie to Python so any and all advice is greatly
> appreciated.
>
> I'm trying to use regular expressions to process text in an SGML file
> but only in one section.
>
> So the input would look like this:
>
> <ch-part no="I"><title>RESEARCH GUIDE
> <sec-main no="1.01"><title>content
> <para>content
>
> <sec-main no="2.01"><title>content
> <para>content
>
>
> <ch-part no="II"><title>FORMS
> <sec-main no="3.01"><title>content
>
> <sec-sub1 no="1"><title>content
> <para>content
>
> <sec-sub2 no="1"><title>content
> <para>content
>
>
> and the output like this:
>
> <ch-part no="I"><title>RESEARCH GUIDE
> <sec-main no="1.01"><title>content
> <biblio>
> <para>content
> </biblio>
>
> <sec-main no="2.01"><title>content
> <biblio>
> <para>content
> </biblio>
>
> <ch-part no="II"><title>FORMS
> <sec-main no="3.01"><title>content
>
> <sec-sub1 no="1"><title>content
> <para>content
>
> <sec-sub2 no="1"><title>content
> <para>content
>
>
> But no matter what I try I end up changing the entire file rather than
> just one part.
>
> Here's what I've come up with so far but I can't think of anything
> else.
>
> ***
>
> import os, re
> setpath = raw_input("Enter the path where the program should run: ")
> print
>
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
> fname = files
> for fname in files:
> inputFile = file(os.path.join(root,fname), 'r')
> line = inputFile.read()
> inputFile.close()
>
>
> chpart_pattern = re.compile(r'<ch-part
> no=\"[A-Z]{1,4}\"><title>(RESEARCH)', re.IGNORECASE)
>
> while 1:
> if chpart_pattern.search(line):
> line = re.sub(r"<sec-main
> no=(\"[0-9]*.[0-9]*\")><title>(.*)", r"<sec-main
> no=\1><title>\2\n<biblio>", line)
> outputFile = file(os.path.join(root,fname), 'w')
> outputFile.write(line)
> outputFile.close()
> break
>
> if chpart_pattern.search(line) is None:
> print 'none'
> break
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From gene.tani at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 08:39:13 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 05:39:13 -0700
Subject: Finding the Process Path
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1369.1128342303.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62153@hqemail2.spss.com>
	<mailman.1369.1128342303.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128343153.429262.167730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

other ways to get at info:

if sys.hexversion > 0x010502F0:

sys.versioninfo, version, etc.

platform.architecture, processor etc.

distutils.sysconfig.get_makefile_filename(  )

Benji York wrote:
> Peck, Jon wrote:
> > I have Python code running in an application, and I would like to find
> > the full path of the process executable where it is running.
>
> Like this?
>
>  >>> import sys
>  >>> sys.executable
> '/usr/bin/python'
> --
> Benji York



From nomail at free.fr  Thu Oct 13 06:07:04 2005
From: nomail at free.fr (HIL)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:07:04 +0200
Subject: Reload the network configuration directly from a python sript ?
Message-ID: <434e31c7$0$19278$626a54ce@news.free.fr>


Hi everybody,

I wrote a python script to setup my network interface under Linux. To
perform it, I use directly from my python script external programs as
'ifconfig' and 'route' ans I fill the file /etc/resolv.conf with the good
nameserver IP. So, it it works and my network is up.

My problem is that when I use the function socket.gethostbyaddr just after
setting up the network and without getting out of my script, I get an
exception socket.herror. If I start my script again, now the function
socket.gethostbyaddr works correctly.

Python seems to load the network configuration at startup, and if network is
not set at this moment, it does not reload changes.

So, does someone know how to reload the network configuration directly from
my script without restarting it ?

Thanks by advance.

HIL


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 19:25:46 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:25:46 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com> <Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
	<tluik1ttskfsqb175v3gma36848liub5da@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86ek6ul1c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> Perhaps you could slow them down with some randomly chosen questions
> to prove they know something about you.  Companies could do the same
> thing.

Challenge-response system are old hat. I use one, and it reduces my
spam by three orders of magnitude. Most of what's left is spam that
went to a list that I've subscribed to whose mail circumvents the
anti-spam feature, and nigerian scam type things, which violates one
of the assumptions that such systems make about spam.

The downside is that I have no idea how many people try to contact me
out of the blue, or from an address other than the one I sent mail to,
but don't bother to answer the response. 

> You can inconvenience the sender to a fair degree since most people
> don't often write strangers with the expectation of a personal
> correspondence.

Right. Nobody sends email to addresses that come off business cards,
or off a web site, or ....

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sun Oct  2 22:25:38 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:25:38 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
Message-ID: <1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>

"Michael" <ms at cerenity.org> wrote:

> James A. Donald wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:11:13 -0400, Jean-Francois Doyon
> > James A. Donald:
> >>  > Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
> >>  > mysteriously fail to work with no error message.
> >> No, the error message will be pretty clear actually :)
> > Now why, I wonder,  does this loop never end :-)
> > egold = 0
> > while egold < 10:
> >    ego1d = egold+1
>
> I know (hope! :-) that's a tongue-in-cheek question, however the answer as
> to why that's not a problem is more to do with development habits rather
> than language enforcement. (yes with bad habits that can and will happen)
>
> [snipped description of test-driven development culture]

As an aside, more to the point of the specific erroneous example is the lack of the standard python
idiom for iteration:

for egold in xrange(10):
    pass

Learning and using standard idioms is an essential part of learning a language; python is no
exception to this.

George




From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Thu Oct 13 00:14:06 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:14:06 -0400
Subject: Multiple assignments simplification
References: <1129162253.273873.277050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129176847.d7bbf57ecd45b1fc72525ca680621ac4@teranews>

<bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote:

> [snipped]
>
> Do you know some algorithm (or you can give some suggestions) to
> minimize the number of simple assignments needed for a "regular"
> situation like that?

You can formulate the task as a graph-theoretic problem by representing the set of assignments as a
digraph G(V,E), where:
- V = set(LHS) | set(RHS): the vertex set V is the union of all left and right hand side
expressions.
- E = set((v1,v2) for "v1 = v2" in assignments): there is an edge from v1 to v2 for every assignment
v1=v2.

Now, every edge v1->v2 where in-degree(v1)==0 corresponds to a safe assignment: v1 is not assigned
to any RHS, so it can be overwritten. After the assignment, both v1 and the edge (v1,v2) can be
removed, decrementing the in-degree of v2. This happens iteratively as long as there are nodes with
zero in-degree.

At this point, all remaining nodes have in-degree >=1 and they form one or more strongly connected
components. Since no RHS occurs more than once*, the out-degree of every vertex is less than or
equal to 1. Therefore, for every component Ci,
|Vi| >= sum(out-degree(v) for v in Vi)  == |Ei|.

Since for a strongly connected component |Vi| <= |Ei|, the previous relationship is actually
equality |Vi| == |Ei|. Thus each component is a simple cycle v[1]->v[2]->...v[n]->v[1]. You can
break the cycle by introducing an auxiliary variable x in an arbitrary edge, say v[n]->v[1]. Then
the following assignments can take place: x = v[1]; v[1] = v[2]; v[2] = v[3]; ...; v[n-1] = v[n];
v[n] = x

So overall, you need just one auxiliary variable for each strongly component of G.

HTH,
George


* More than one assignments with the same RHS [v=a, v=b] are useless since only the last has an
effect. In any case, the useless assignments can be filtered out in the beginning.




From http  Thu Oct 27 13:33:42 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 10:33:42 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xoe5asw3t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> > Of course it's legal for non-monopoly companies.  You seem to think
> > Microsoft's illegal monopoly is an irrelevant detail.  It is not.
> 
>     What is an "illegal monopoly"?

It's what Microsoft still stands convicted of having.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/msdoj/


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 09:04:39 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:04:39 GMT
Subject: Need Python Pro for Help!! Plzz
In-Reply-To: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
References: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <Xvp9f.25974$m%6.13990@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

blah at blah.blah wrote:
> Need python Pro at newtopython at googlegroups.com , if u wanna help, 

1) Why would anyone want to help you when you're not even willing to 
spend the (small) time and effort to spell simple words like "you" 
correctly or make sure your post actually makes sense? Start by helping 
yourself and writing english. Then you'd look less like a script kiddie.

2) Why should someone willing to help you enter into a private email 
discussion? Newsgroups like this exist to help people, and by it being a 
public forum, many more people can benefit from knowledge available 
here. If you asked your questions here, you'd be more likely to get 
answers, and many more people than yourself could benefit from the help 
that might result.






From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:17:05 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 03:17:05 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86y85ahs1j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128421025.598483.240870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> First thing to know; you can't stop someone who's sufficiently
> determined to run the program.

I have explained to her that I can't prevent someone who REALLY wants
her program from tossing a rock through her front window and making off
with her PC.  They'd get the hardware and the executable along with the
client and transactions data.  She conceeded that that would be out of
my scope of being able to protect her program.

> > Ideas I've had to prevent someone from running the app:
> > - ask for a password every time the program is run. (I wonder how
> > quickly they will complain about this, not very secure once everyone
> > eventually finds out what the password is)
>
> If only authorized people have the password, then this works. The
> problem is that her employees are probably authorized, but she doesn't
> trust them to not take the program to her competition. Which brings
> up an alternative goal:

I may have to just put password protection in and if she hangs herself
by 'sharing' the password with underlings she trusts (at the
present)... again that's outside of my control of protecting her.

> > What I want:
> > - the simplest thing that could possibly work!
>
> Telling her "Don't let your employees near the computer with media, or
> when it's connect to a network."

Currently this app is running on a stand alone PC.  There was a big
concern about hackers getting at her program or data from over the
internet.  I complemented her on this level of security.  No floppy
drive either.



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 19:19:31 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 16:19:31 -0700
Subject: python gc performance in large apps
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2419.1130013573.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <43594BD5.7050104@u20.org>
	<mailman.2419.1130013573.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130023170.997594.6560@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:13:09 -0400, Robby Dermody <robbyd at u20.org> wrote:
> >
> > [snip - it leaks memory]
>
> One thing to consider is that the process may be growing in size, not because garbage objects are not being freed, but because objects which should be garbage are being held onto by application-level code.

This is a big problem with Java too.  It's also likely to be a large
source of the memory growth here given that there isn't much cylcic
garbage.  I'm assuming that memory leaks in the python core are going
to be a small percentage of the total.  (Probably also true even if
there are memory leaks in Twisted, etc)  It's so easy to keep data
around you don't realize.

I don't have any particular insight into this problem.  I think Zope
servers can run a long without similar issues, so I think (certainly
hope) it's not endemic to the Python core.  I don't recall any
significant memory leaks fixed between 2.3 and current CVS.  But it
would be interesting to try your app on 2.4 at least to see if it
works.  CVS would also be interesting.

You might want to consider building your own python configuring
--with-pydebug.  This will cause your program to run slower and consume
more memory, but it has additional information available to help find
reference leaks.

Definitely also run under valgrind if possible.  Given the size, I
don't know if electric fence or dbmalloc are realistic options.

Feel free to mail me if you need help with valgrind etc.  I'm very
curious what the root cause of your problem is.  It's possible you are
exercising code in python that isn't commonly used and so we haven't
found a problem yet.  Also consider looking into the issues of the
third party libraries.  Jp mentioned some problems with Twisted stuff.

It would be good if you could provide small test cases that create the
problems you have encountered.

n



From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 01:16:21 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 22:16:21 -0700
Subject: IDE recommendation please
In-Reply-To: <1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130044581.644967.254230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am an even worse dinosaur, I use ion3 and console vim.

Alex Martelli wrote:
> On the Mac, I think the XCode integration you get with PyObjC is
> probably best.  I know there are plugins for Eclipse but haven't tried
> any personally, so it's hard to make suggestions (I'm a dinosaur, and I
> prefer to develop with GVim + a command-line tool, such as Python's own
> interactive mode...).  I'm not sure if BlackAdder (simplest and fastest
> to learn) and WingIDE (probably THE one most powerful Python IDE) work
> on the Mac (shame on me, as a Python AND Mac enthusiast, for not having
> tried them...), but they're surely worth investigating.  Ditto for
> ActiveState's Komodo tool...
> 
> 
> Alex



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 13:58:31 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:58:31 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<8b09l1tgavuiu3hmatva34624lvsjn6mtl@4ax.com>
	<dj20pk$tod$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<iv59l1d1h68mi5f2dns2lib5lvoi4vlr07@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj3d47$di6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:iv59l1d1h68mi5f2dns2lib5lvoi4vlr07 at 4ax.com...

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:21:55 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    I don't think any of it bordered on force or fraud. However, their
>>obligation to their shareholders requires them to do anythign that borders
>>on force/fraud so long as it isn't force/fraud.

> I avoid MS products whenever possible.  Surely others feel the same
> way because we have had it up to the teeth with MS dirty tactics. That
> has to be factored into profitability as well.

    Definitely. Sometimes you have to make nice if you want to make money.

    I have no complaints with people who choose to avoid a particular 
company's products because they don't like that company's tactics. And I 
have no problem with them spreading their views and sharing their beliefs.

    Heck, I work for a company that probably has made quite a few sales 
because people were looking for a product by "anyone but Microsoft".

    That said, I do agree there were some "dirty tactics" in the sense that 
they were pure hardball and could have resulted in inferior products getting 
greater market share. However, I don't think they came anywhere near force 
or fraud, with very few exceptions.

    Notable exceptions included cases where Microsoft told companies they 
had no intention of releasing a competing product to get technical details 
and later turned around and released competing products or cases where 
Microsoft threatened legal action they knew they had no chance of winning at 
a fair hearing. These did border on force/fraud and in some cases, Microsoft 
did get spanked for these tactics.

    DS




From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 24 06:07:23 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:07:23 -0400
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <435cb045$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:

> Those two are easy. However, and this is where I show my hard-won 
> ignorance, and admit that I don't see the problem with the property 
> examples:
> 
>>     class Base(object)
>>         def getFoo(self): ...
>>         def setFoo(self): ...
>>         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
>>
>>     class Derived(Base):
>>         def getFoo(self): ....
> 
> 
> Unless the answer is "Why are you using setters and getters anyway? This 
> isn't Java you know."
> 
> Oh wait! Yes I do... the setter doesn't actually take an argument to set 
> the property too. Is that it, or have a missed a cunningly hidden deeper 
> problem?

Derived.getFoo() will not override the use of Base.getFoo() to access the attribute foo.

Kent


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 12:01:31 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:01:31 -0700
Subject: Client/Server socket send user input
Message-ID: <1130256091.162014.12570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I have a basic client/server socket situation setup....where the server
accepts a connection and then waits for commands.

On the client side, I create a socket, connect to the server...then I
pass the socket to a class which just reads from the socket (in a
thread).

class Reader(Thread):
    def run(self):
        while 1:
            print self.sock.recv(1),

Now, when the server sends back a message, and needs input back the
reader hangs at the sock.recv line...which is fine, and expected.
However, I want to be able to type something into the console at that
point and hit enter, and have it sent to the server.

In my client class I tried something like...

class Client(Thread):
    def run(self):
        reader = Reader(self.sock)
        reader.start()
        while 1:
            x = raw_input("go>")
            self.sock.send(x)
            print "sent", x

However, in order to see "go>" ..I have to hit enter first, then type
in my command and hit enter to send.  I just want to type and hit
enter.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks.



From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Oct 27 11:07:03 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jean-Paul Calderone)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:07:03 -0400
Subject: Help: Quick way to test if value lies within a list of lists of
	ranges?
In-Reply-To: <40824.213.235.52.66.1130424533.squirrel@www.maysubdivide.org>
Message-ID: <20051027150703.10365.846363817.divmod.quotient.1006@ohm>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:48:53 +0100 (BST), Ben O'Steen <bosteen at maysubdivide.org> wrote:
>Scenario:
>=========
>
>Using PyGame in particular, I am trying to write an application that will
>run a scripted timeline of events, eg at 5.5 seconds, play xxx.mp3 and put
>the image of a ball on screen, at 7.8 seconds move the ball up and down.
>At this point, I hear you say 'Oh, like Flash'.
>
> [snip - how do I make it go fast?]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of suggestions for fast algorithms
to solve this problem, but before you do, let me suggest that
this is actually a premature optimization.

I bet there are much more interesting problems to be solved in
this project, ones that you could work on and test, even while
doing something as unbelievable slow as looping over 100 or so
objects. ;)

You can always optimize later, after you've identified that this
operation is actually a bottleneck.

Jean-Paul


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 23 08:49:49 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:49:49 -0400
Subject: wxpython - passing arg to wx.app OnInit
In-Reply-To: <11lm687nih0l7ac@corp.supernews.com>
References: <11lm687nih0l7ac@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7pGdnfmqQoJJG8beRVn-iA@powergate.ca>

Stuart McGraw wrote:
> I have a wxPython app, conventionally structured
> with a Application class derived from wx.App.
> My problem is that the app accepts a command
> line argument that must be acted upon within the
> OnInit() method of the Application class.  How do
> I pass it cleanly from main() into app.OnInit()?  In 
> the simplified example below, dbfn is the piece of 
> info that is in main() that OnInit() needs to use.
> Is a global variable is the only way?  :-(

There are various ways, but the simplest is to accept that sys.argv is
*already* a "global" and just to access it directly from the
Application's OnInit() method.

This wiki page demonstrates:
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/UsingCommandLineArguments

-Peter


From alexs at advfn.com  Fri Oct 14 10:29:56 2005
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:29:56 +0100
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <434cca53$0$9727$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure> <434cca53$0$9727$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <C09579CB-8CD3-4CB8-8DC4-D9366DA70921@advfn.com>


On 12 Oct 2005, at 09:33, bruno modulix wrote:

> Donn Cave wrote:
>
>> Quoth "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>:
>> | Alex Stapleton wrote
>> |
>> | > Except it is interpreted.
>> |
>> | except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte  
>> code, which
>> | is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a  
>> module is up
>> | to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.
>>
>> Fair to say that byte code is interpreted?  Seems to require an
>> application we commonly call an interpreter.
>>
>
> If so, Java is interpreted too. The only difference between Java and
> Python here is that Python is smart enough to call the compiler by  
> itself.

All languages are interpreted by something. Even x86 is interpreted  
by the CPU. This has been said already.
Python and Java are both as distant from the machines native  
language, unless your using a cunning VM which does native code  
compilation.

BASIC is in fact, lower level than Python or Java because it's VM  
interprets the actual source code, rather than translating it to  
"bytecode" first, and then interpreting that.

You can see that the entire, interpreted vs compiled debate is  
utterly meaningless and that only implementation specific details  
actually matter. e.g. Java is native if you compile it with GCJ. x86  
is interpreted if you run it under a VM like VirtualPC.

Technical terminology generally fails to actually describing anything  
accurately for very long.


From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Mon Oct 10 04:51:25 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:51:25 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndkkasd.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

In article <pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>, 
Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> If performance is really not such an issue, would it really matter if you
> periodically restarted Python? Starting Python takes a tiny amount of time:

Uhhh. Sounds like playing with Microsoft :) I know of a mission-
critical system which was restarted every week due to some memory
leaks. If it wasn't, it crashed after two weeks. Guess which
platform...

> $ time python -c pass
> real    0m0.164s
> user    0m0.021s
> sys     0m0.015s

This is on the limit of being acceptable. I'd say that a one-second
time lag is the maximum. The system is a safety system after all,
and there will be a hardware watchdog to take care of odd crashes.
The software itself is stateless in the sense that its previous
state does not affect the next round. Basically, it is just checking
a few numbers over the network. Even the network connection is
stateless (single UDP packet pairs) to avoid TCP problems with
partial closings, etc.

There are a gazillion things which may go wrong. A stray cosmic
ray may change the state of one bit in the wrong place of memory,
and that's it, etc. So, the system has to be able to recover from
pretty much everything. I will in any case build an independent
process which probes the state of the main process. However,
I hope it is never really needed.

> I'm not saying that you will need to restart Python once an hour, or even
> once a month. But if you did, would it matter? What's more important is
> the state of the operating system. (I'm assuming that, with a year uptime
> the requirements, you aren't even thinking of WinCE.)

Not even in my worst nightmares! The platform will be an embedded
Linux computer running 2.4.somethingnew.

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 25 11:33:33 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:33:33 -0500
Subject: Errno 8 Exec format error
In-Reply-To: <1130253099.435e4b2b37812@webmail.sussex.ac.uk>
References: <1130253099.435e4b2b37812@webmail.sussex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20051025153332.GA14256@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 04:11:39PM +0100, Matthew Fowler wrote:
> "problem with execution of xhpl  on  AxisProduct:  [Errno 8] Exec format
> error"
In this case, it appears that Python is reporting the error of some operating
system call, such as execve.

On my operating system, here's a program which creates an executable file which
is not a valid ELF file.  When it is executed with execve, -1 is returned and
errno is set to ENOEXEC ("Exec format error")

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------
import tempfile, os

t, n = tempfile.mkstemp()
os.write(t, "\x7fELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0")
os.close(t)

os.chmod(n, 0700)
try:
        print os.execv(n, ['example'])
finally:
        os.unlink(n)
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------

$ python badexec.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "badexec.py", line 9, in ?
    print os.execv(n, ['example'])
OSError: [Errno 8] Exec format error

Jeff

> Hi there
> 
> I have been porting python to the Etrax platform and everything seems to
> be working.
> 
> However when I run the program in question I get:
> 
> 
> Im looking for any help to try and solve this issue. Am I correct in
> thinking that Python is reporting this problem? If so has anybody
> experienced this problem before?
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Matt
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 01:05:22 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:05:22 -0600
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8fSdnW2hp7gSuMreRVn-vA@comcast.com>

grunar at gmail.com wrote:
> Jason Stitt wrote:
> 
>>Using // for 'in' looks really weird, too. It's too bad you can't
>>overload Python's 'in' operator. (Can you? It seems to be hard-coded
>>to iterate through an iterable and look for the value, rather than
>>calling a private method like some other builtins do.)
> 
[snip]
> 
> Python "in" clause doesn't seem exploitable in any way

Sure it is.  Just override __contains__.

STeVe


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 11:18:58 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:18:58 +0100
Subject: Can module access global from __main__?
In-Reply-To: <digiul$14c$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <digf7s$j3c$1@sea.gmane.org> <digh6l$r0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<digiul$14c$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <digl53$am0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Neal Becker wrote:
> Everything you said is absolutely correct.  I was being lazy.  I had a main
> program in module, and wanted to reorganize it, putting most of it into a
> new module.  Being python, it actually only took a small effort to fix this
> properly, so that in B.py, what were global variables are now passed as
> arguments to class constructors and functions.
> 
> Still curious about the answer.  If I know that I am imported from __main__,
> then I can do access X as sys.modules[__main__].X.  In general, I don't
> know how to determine who is importing me.
> 
I don't think you can without huge amounts of introspection - it's even 
worse than the "what's the name of this object" question that seems to 
come up regularly. A module can be imported from multiple modules, and 
you only get to execute code on the first import. Even then (on the 
first import) I am not sure how you could introspect to find the answer 
you want.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From jwkenne at attglobal.net  Sat Oct 15 20:32:55 2005
From: jwkenne at attglobal.net (John W. Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:32:55 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <mO74f.8726$vD4.549587@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<mO74f.8726$vD4.549587@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <4mi4f.28813$Ge5.16418@fe10.lga>

Rhino wrote:
> Everyone
> else was still using typewriters - which was IBM's bread and butter in those
> days - for their business needs.

Oh dear, no. Not quite. There were, going back decades, machines that 
used punched cards, relays, stepper wheels, and punched cards. It was 
/that/ that was the foundation of IBM's business, and IBM had an 
effective monopoly. This was not altogether due to evil; their one 
competitor, Remington Rand, made machines that were slightly better, but 
had to be factory-programmed, whereas IBM's machines used panels full of 
jumper wires, and the panels themselves could be swapped, so that you 
could have a "program library" of prewired panels. Which would /you/ buy?

Remington Rand made a similar mistake with computers. They wouldn't give 
you a programming manual until you contracted to buy the bloody thing. 
IBM pulled ahead of them during the year when Univac computers were real 
and IBM computers weren't, and they never looked back.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only the 
obeisance of others!  Thus is bad government born!  Hold in your heart 
that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good government 
shall arise of its own accord!  Such is the path of virtue!"
   -- Kazuo Koike.  "Lone Wolf and Cub:  Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis)


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 14:42:18 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:42:18 -0700
Subject: 2d array slicing problem
In-Reply-To: <1128704653.953332.218930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128704653.953332.218930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di6fie$cng$1@sea.gmane.org>

jeg wrote:
> dear all,
> 
> i'm an astronomer working with 2d images -- 2d numarrays. i have a
> script which basically does some operations on some images, and one of
> the first steps is to find a galaxy on an image (at, say, a known x,y
> coord), and create a sub-image by slicing out part of the larger array
> to create a more managable smaller one (e.g. 50x50 pixels from a
> 1000x1000 array).
> 
> i was running this fine under python 2.3.4, but due to the slowness of
> my machine, moved to a speedy 64-bit linux box running version 2.4.2.
> arrays were no longer being sliced in the correct way, for example:
> 
> B = A[3:7,6:10]
> 
> generates different Bs if i run an identical script on the same image
> on the different machines.
> 
> note: we deal with FITS format images, which are read into numarrays
> using the pyfits.py module. does anyone know any obvious reason this
> should be happening? 

Not without having the data and the machines in front of me. You'll get
better luck asking on numarray's mailing list.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 10 16:06:48 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:06:48 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:07:42 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>
>HTML is a problem on *other* peoples crappy software as well. It
>wasn't designed to carry code content, but has been hacked up to do
>that.

It seems to me it goes without saying that you cannot trust code from
strangers, especially anonymous strangers.  You simply don't run code
sent in email except from highly trusted individuals.  If you do, that
is YOUR fault for being such a silly ass not the mail system's ability
to deliver code.  It is as stupid as running code that came as an
attachment.

One of the ideas I play with in my essay  is that you could insist
your correspondents have digital id certificate signed by Thawte or
other CA attesting to their identity, thus giving you legal recourse
against them if they send you spam, Trojans etc.

This would slow them down with requests for permission to send. they
could send only one per certificate.  The  cost and hassle of getting
the certificate could deter tem, and uniquely identify them for
blocking and public black lists.
.




-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From brian.utterback at sun.removeme.com  Tue Oct 25 15:49:46 2005
From: brian.utterback at sun.removeme.com (Brian Utterback)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:49:46 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <435E8C5A.5030105@sun.removeme.com>

David Schwartz wrote:

> 
>     Do you think it would be immoral if Microsoft said, "we will only sell 
> Windows wholesale to dealers who don't sell other operating systems?"


That's the crux of the problem, isn't it?  When you are a virtual
monopoly, it is at least unlawful. The Sherman Anti-trust act as well
as the various follow-on anti-trust laws essentially say that what is
okay when you have 49% of a market is illegal when you have 51%. You
have maintained that Microsoft is not a monopoly, but they clearly
are by U.S. Anti-trust law. Congress has set the definition, and
the courts have upheld it, explicitly in Microsoft's case. The courts
have declared Microsoft a monopoly in the desktop OS market, and that
decision stands.

You have said that it was unreasonable to expect Microsoft to define
the market in the manner required to make them into a monopoly, but
it was their primary market. Again, court records show that they not
only had a monopoly, they knew they had a monopoly and took steps
to preserve their monopoly.  Some of those steps were illegal by U.S.
law.

Also, you have said that it was unreasonable to expect Microsoft to
know that they were in violation of the law. In addition to the fact
that the laws have been in place since the late 1800's, the consent
decree explicitly and in no uncertain terms informed them of their
violations, and they continued to violate the law even afterward.

I have read some interesting things written by some of the principles
involved that the culture in Microsoft explicitly resisted against
checking the legality of these matters, not because they wanted to
do illegal things, but because Bill Gates viewed the legal vetting
process that he saw IBM use as being the primary cause of the
inability of IBM to react to the changing market. He didn't want
his company to have the same legal baggage. Microsoft resisted
having any kind of "working within the law" type of employee
training until long after most other large companies had them.

-- 
blu

Remember when SOX compliant meant they were both the same color?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Utterback - OP/N1 RPE, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Ph:877-259-7345, Em:brian.utterback-at-ess-you-enn-dot-kom


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct  8 16:44:12 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:44:12 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:38:49 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>Yes it is. HTML means that after I've specified my email client use my
>favourite font, in the size I like, people send me emails that over-ride
>my choice. Invariably they use a font I don't even have. 

I would suggest then a better solution is to implement CSS in email,
the way you do in browsers to deal with that same problem.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Tue Oct 11 08:02:30 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:02:30 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews><die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>

Christian Stapfer wrote:
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>Christian Stapfer wrote:
>>
>>>"George Sakkis" <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote in message 
>>>news:1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8 at teranews...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Christian Stapfer" <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>><ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>try to use set.
A reasonable suggestion.  A set must have the trade-offs involved.
The abstraction itself brings to mind the issues, and the performance
can, at least in theory, be handled there.  If that is true (that
the "set" abstraction "sees" the problem), then you can rely on the
Python implementation of "set" to either now, or eventually, have
a "good" implementation -- one not too far off efficient.  The Python
gang is good at this stuff; a "better" set implementation will win if
it can show better performance without related down-sides.

As to the "either now, or eventually;"  if you _must_ have performance
now, not in some abstract future, then it behooves you to _test_,
_test_, _test_!

>>> If the documentation stated the order-of-magnitude
>>>behavior of those basic operations up front, then
>>>I (and *anyone* else who ever wanted to use those
>>>operations on large lists / large sets) could do
>>>a quick order-of-magnitude estimation of how
>>>a certain program design will behave, performance
>>>wise.
And, if the proper documentation is in place, and it
says "dictionary lookup is O(N)" (and you avoid using
it for exactly that reason), how surprised will you be
to discover that the O(N) is only reached if the hash
values of the keys are all equal?

Oh, maybe you expect "O(N)" to really mean "\Theta(N)".
Then, if you are a dweeb like me, you will respond that
"This is not possible, a dictionary of size N must take at
least 'O(lg N)' to read the key, never mind processing it."
But, it turns out, that given a bound on the size of a
process, processing an address is "O(1)", not "O(lg N)".
Is that too practical for you, or not enough?

>>>  *Experimenting* is not necessarily as easy to
>>>do as you seem to believe. 


>>>How do you, for example, hit upon the worst-case 
 >>>behavior with your test data?
Are you saying the documentation should characterize the
cases that achieve worst-case behavior?  This is a stiff
burden indeed, not one I am used to in even the most rigorous
classes I've seen.  If there is such a characterization,
how burned will you feel if a case is overlooked and that
case is the one that you sold to your customer?  Are you
willing to provide the same guaranteed performance and
documentation of performance to your customer that you
you expect of the Python system?  Would you mind if the
quality is proportional to the price you paid?

>>You are, of course, either assuming that there's a
>>single implementation of Python,
> Of course not!
> 
>>or that all implementations have the same behaviour.
> Of course not!

> But it is reasonable, anyway, to ask for information
> about a specific implementation (that one is *forced*
> to use). 
You are not _forced_ to use any implementation of Python.
You are free to implement your own Python system.

>   And if the implementer wants to complain that
> giving such information would break his wonderful
> abstraction then I can only answer: It is *reality*
> that *will* break your abstraction as regards
> performance! It is, therefore, absolutely *no*
> use to *pretend* you *can* avoid this form of "breaking
> the abstraction" by simply avoiding to mention it
> in the documentation...
I simply repeat: I have never seen a paper characterizing
the performance of an algorithm as "O(expr(N))" that described
in details _all_ cases that reached that limit.  At most such
papers describe _one_ such cases.  Nor have I ever seen papers
describing the performance of an algorithm as "\Theta(expr(N))"
that characterized the cases that broke the "\Theta" performance.
If you provide me the papers, provide me a C compiler with
equivalent docs on all C expressions, and provide me the funding
to update the Python docs, I will be happy to do so for a single
version of Python and a since version of CPython.  I expect I
will have an easier time of it than the IronPython people will
have.

> I consider it the job of the implementer to know
> about the trade-offs that he has been making in
> choosing one particular implementation, and to
> know what computational complexity therefore
> attaches to the various operations exposed in
> its interface.
Am I to take it you provide this to all of your customers?

> How reasonable is it to ask me, or anyone else
> for that matter, to extract, experiment-wise
> (if it can be done at all with reasonable effort)
> information that properly belongs to the implementer
> and really should have been exposed in the
> documentation in the first place?
Not at all reasonable.  How reasonable is it to ask
me to provide you support information for free?

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 00:25:14 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 21:25:14 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <1h4wiqv.m4hrpogqt6tvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130122476.079450.216280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wiqv.m4hrpogqt6tvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130127914.446263.222800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

counting that out(regardless whether it is (dis)advantage or not), what
else a block can do but not a named function ?

Alex Martelli wrote:
> bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > could someone enlighten me what is the advantage of block over named
> > function ?
> >
> > One thing that I can see a difference may be lexical scope ?
>
> "Yes, but" -- according to the latest Ruby book, the "mixed lexical
> scope" of blocks is a highly controversial notion in the Ruby community;
> so I wouldn't necessarily count it as an _advantage_ of Ruby blocks...
> 
> 
> Alex



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 07:01:42 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:01:42 +1000
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.15.07.47.24.278124@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h4gzgc.er0q43111v2w5N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.15.11.01.42.387531@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:51:41 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>    ...
>> You can *almost* do that as a one-liner:
> 
> No 'almost' about it...
> 
>> L2 = [item.split('_') for item in mystr.split()]
>> 
>> except that gives a list like this:
>> 
>> [['this', 'NP'], ['is', 'VL'], ['funny', 'JJ']]
>> 
>> which needs flattening. 
> 
> ....because the flattening is easy:
> 
> [ x for x in y.split('_') for y in z.split(' ') ]


py> mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
py> [x for x in y.split('_') for y in mystr.split(' ')]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'y' is not defined


This works, but isn't flattened:

py> [x for x in [y.split('_') for y in mystr.split(' ')]]
[['this', 'NP'], ['is', 'VL'], ['funny', 'JJ']]



-- 
Steven.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Oct 17 19:34:09 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:34:09 +0200
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
In-Reply-To: <4353085a.192466642@news.oz.net>
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>
	<4352289a$0$15038$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4353085a.192466642@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <435434f1$0$5767$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> Well, what will be assumed about name after the lines
> 
> #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
> name = 'Martin L?wis' 
> 
> ?

Are you asking what is assumed about the identifier 'name', or the value
bound to that identifier? Currently, the identifier must be encoded in 
latin1 in this source code, and it must only consist of letters, digits,
and the underscore.

The value of name will be a string consisting of the bytes
4d 61 72 74 69 6e 20 4c f6 77 69 73

> I know type(name) will be <type 'str'> and in itself contain no encoding information now,
> but why shouldn't the default assumption for literal-generated strings be what the coding
> cookie specified?

That certainly is the assumption: string literals must be in the
encoding specified in the source encoding, in the source code file
on disk. If they aren't (and cannot be interpreted that way), you
get a syntax error.

> I know the current implementation doesn't keep track of the different
> encodings that could reasonably be inferred from the source of the strings, 
 > but we are talking about future stuff here ;-)

Ah, so you want the source encoding to be preserved, say as an attribute
of the string literal. This has been discussed many times, and was
always rejected.

Some people reject it because it is overkill: if you want reliable,
stable representation of characters, you should use Unicode strings.

Others reject it because of semantic difficulties: how would such
strings behave under concatenation, if the encodings are different?

> #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
> name = 'Martin L?wis' 
> 
> could be that name.encoding == 'latin-1'

That is not at all intuitive. I would have expected name.encoding
to be 'latin1'.

> Functions that generate strings, such as chr(), could be assumed to create
> a string with the same encoding as the source code for the chr(...) invocation.

What is the source of the chr invocation? If I do chr(param), should I 
use the source where param was computed, or the source where the call
to chr occurs? If the latter, how should the interpreter preserve the
encoding of where the call came from?

What about the many other sources of byte strings (like strings read 
from a file, or received via a socket)?

> This is not a fully developed idea, and there has been discussion on the topic before
> (even between us ;-) but I thought another round might bring out your current thinking
> on it ;-)

My thinking still is the same. It cannot really work, and it wouldn't do 
any good with what little it could do. Just use Unicode strings.

Regards,
Martin


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 08:13:44 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:13:44 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <g1h1m1db8vf8mn2k91fhuol97qu3i03on8@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    Right, they send gun-wielding thugs to use force against people. That's 
>a lot like refusing to do business with people who won't uphold their 
>contractual obligations.


You stupid fuck! How many times do I have to tell you.

There was NO contract. Just a THREAT to make me do what they wanted,
to go along with their extortion racket.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Tue Oct  4 18:34:24 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:34:24 -0700
Subject: Mantain IDE colors and paste them in an HTML page
In-Reply-To: <eJC0f.12418$133.8399@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <eJC0f.12418$133.8399@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <20051004223424.GC32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 04, billie wrote:
> I need to insert a Python source in an HTML page mantaining to 
> coloration gives by the IDE.

Do you care what IDE?

> I tried the export function of scite but it does not generate a proper
> HTML code that permit me to copy and paste it into another HTML page.
> Does anyone got any suggestion?

If you're just trying to get copy/paste-able-from-browser html that has
pretty colors, you might start up vim and use the default colors.  You
might have to say ":syntax enable".  Then just type ":TOhtml" and you'll
have a colorized version of your "IDE" display.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 21:35:08 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:35:08 -0700
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <UKydnciCVobESfveRVn-sg@comcast.com>

Alex Hunsley wrote:
> The two main versions I've encountered for data pseudo-hiding 
> (encapsulation) in python are:
> 
> method 1:
> 
> _X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
>       know that this data should be private.
> 
> 
> method 2:
> 
> __X - (double underscore) - mangles the name (in a predictable way).
>       Avoids name pollution.

Method 2 is also (though to a lesser degree) just cosmetic -- it doesn't 
prevent all name clashes even if you're reasonable enough not to name 
anything in the _X__xxx pattern.  I gave an example of this in an 
earlier thread on this topic[1].  The basic problem is that 
double-underscore mangling doesn't include the module name, so two 
classes in different modules with the same class names can easily mess 
with each others' "private" attributes.

STeVe

[1]http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/f03183a2c01c8ecf?hl=en&


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 15:39:06 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 12:39:06 -0700
Subject: Client/Server socket send user input
In-Reply-To: <1130256091.162014.12570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130256091.162014.12570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130269146.851225.201320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I even tried inserting a "\r" or "\r\n" or "\n" to stdout, also tried
the same using msvcrt.putch() ...but no luck.  I still have to hit
enter to get the prompt , where I can then type a command and hit
enter.

For example, I get this displayed:
[example]
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>[cursor_is_here]
[/example]

...so I type something like.."ver" but I get

[example]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'ver' is not defined
>>>
[/example]

Now, if I start over and have...

[example]
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>[cursor_is_here]
[/example]

..and I press the Enter key I end up with

[example]
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>

>>>[cursor_is_here]
[/example]

So, I get the prompt, I hit enter, which then displays the ">>>" ..and
if I type "ver" there, I get back what I expect.

I just wish I didn't have to hit enter before being able to type a
command.



From noway at sorry.com  Wed Oct 19 04:57:25 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:57:25 GMT
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <VTn5f.15916$65.429948@twister1.libero.it>

TokiDoki wrote:

> At first, I had all of my files in one single directory, but now, with
> the increasing number of files, it is becoming hard to browse my
> directory. So, I would want to be able to divide the files between 8
> directory, according to their purpose. The problem is that it breaks
>    the 'import's between my files. And besides,AFAIK, there is no
> easy way to import a
> file that is not in a subdirectory of the current file

Remember that the directory where you start the toplevel script is always
included in the sys.path. This means that you can have your structure like
this:

main.py
   |
   | - - pkg1
   | - - pkg2
   | - - pkg3

Files in any package can import other packages. The usual way is to do "import
pkgN" and then dereference. Within each package, you will have a __init__.py
which will define the package API (that is, will define those symbols that you
can access from outside the package).

Typically, you only want to import *packages*, not submodules. In other words,
try to not do stuff like "from pkg1.submodule3 import Foo", because this breaks
encapsulation (if you reorganize the structure of pkg1, code will break). So
you'd do "import pgk1" and later "pkg1.Foo", assuming that pkg1.__init__.py
does something like "from submodule3 import Foo". My preferred way is to have
__init__.py just do "from submodules import *", and then each submodule defines
__all__ to specify which are its public symbols. This allow for more
encapsulation (each submodule is able to change what it exports in a
self-contained way, you don't need to modify __init__ as well).

Moreover, the dependence graph between packages shouldn't have loops. For
instance, if pkg3 uses pkg1, pkg1 shouldn't use pkg3. It makes sense to think
of pkg1 as the moral equivalent of a library, which pkg3 uses.
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From AddisonN at iti-ab.com  Thu Oct 13 05:29:32 2005
From: AddisonN at iti-ab.com (AddisonN at iti-ab.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:29:32 +0100
Subject: Scope problem with nested functions.
Message-ID: <9355218C54DDFF4CA43FC31AEB6FB0EC5B1038@iti00-exc01.iti.arabbank.plc>

Thanks Fredrik, that's fixed it. Apologies for the lazy typing - should
have cut and pasted the whole thing.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fredrik Lundh [mailto:fredrik at pythonware.com] 
Sent: 13 October 2005 08:55
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Scope problem with nested functions.

<AddisonN at iti-ab.com> wrote

> I'm having trouble resolving a scope problem. I have a module, called 
> from another script, with this structure:

the code you posted gives a syntax error.  if I fix that, and add some
boilerplate to call getCcyMappings from inside the parseFile function, I
get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "script.py", line 19, in ?
    parseFile(0, 0, 0)
  File "script.py", line 17, in parseFile
    getCcyMappings()
  File "script.py", line 8, in getCcyMappings
    ccyMappings['CAN'] = ['CAD'] # for example.
NameError: global name 'ccyMappings' is not defined

which tells you that there is no *global* variable named ccyMappings.

the ccyMappings variable in your example isn't a global variable; it's
local to the parseFile function, and can be accessed from that function
and any inner functions via normal lexical scoping rules (=access, but
not rebind).

however, the global statement tells Python that the given name is a
global variable, and that any attempts to access or rebind that variable
should be done at the global (=module) level.

if you remove the global statement, Python will look for variables using
ordinary lexical scoping, and things will work as expected.

</F> 






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From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Thu Oct 20 05:02:05 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 02:02:05 -0700
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2226.1129659316.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129647504.536405.156280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2226.1129659316.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129795405.446874.294130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I thought that methods were always overridable.
> In this case the lookup on the
> class changes the behaviour of the one and only property.

How can something be made overridable that is actually overridable? I
didn't know how to better express the broken polymorphism of Pythons
properties than by stating it as a pleonasm about the used get and set
methods. This way a property don't ever have to be redefined in
subclasses if get_x, set_x etc. are changed. 

Kay



From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  7 10:07:51 2005
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (alainpoint at yahoo.fr)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:07:51 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1690.1128693730.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128694071.902605.201440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I understand this, Steve.
I thought the _cmp_ method was a helper for sorting purposes. Why is it
that a membership test needs to call the __cmp__ method?
If this isn't a bug, it is at least unexpected in my eyes.
Maybe a candidate for inclusion in the FAQ?
Thank you for answering
Alain



From oddr at home.no.no  Mon Oct 10 03:32:53 2005
From: oddr at home.no.no (Odd-R.)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 07:32:53 GMT
Subject: Comparing lists
Message-ID: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>

I have to lists, A and B, that may, or may not be equal. If they are not 
identical, I want the output to be three new lists, X,Y and Z where X has 
all the elements that are in A, but not in B, and Y contains all the 
elements that are B but not in A. Z will then have the elements that are 
in both A and B.

One way of doing this is of course to iterate throug the lists and compare 
each of the element, but is there a more efficient way?

Thanks in advance!



-- 
Har du et kj?leskap, har du en TV
s? har du alt du trenger for ? leve

-Jokke & Valentinerne


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct  5 03:49:36 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:49:36 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
>> Have those of you who think that the lack of required declarations in
>> Python is a huge weakness given any thought to the impact that adding
>> them would have on the rest of the language? I can't imagine how any
>> language with required declarations could even remotely resemble
>> Python.
> 
> What's the big deal?  Perl has an option for flagging undeclared
> variables with warnings ("perl -w") or errors ("use strict") and Perl
> docs I've seen advise using at least "perl -w" routinely.  Those
> didn't have much impact.  Python already has a "global" declaration;
> how does it de-Pythonize the language if there's also a "local"
> declaration and an option to flag any variable that's not declared as
> one or the other?

The difference is that perl actually needs 'use strict' to be useful for 
anything more than trivial scripts. Without 'use strict' you can reference 
any variable name without getting an error. Python takes a stricter 
approach to begin with by throwing an exception if you reference an 
undefined variable.

This only leaves the 'assigning to a different name than the one we 
intended' problem which seems to worry some people here, and as has been 
explained in great detail it incurs a cost to anyone reading the code for 
what most Python users consider to be a very small benefit.

If you think variable declarations should be required, then you presumably 
want that to cover class attributes as well as local and global 
variables. After all assigning to 'x.i' when you meant 'x.j' is at least as 
bad as assigning to 'i' instead of 'j'. But unless you know the type of 
'x', how do you know whether it has attributes 'i' or 'j'? So do we need 
type declarations, or perhaps we need a different syntax for 'create a new 
attribute' vs 'update an existing attribute', both of which would throw an 
exception if used in the wrong situation, and would therefore require lots 
of hasattr calls for the cases where we don't care.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 03:01:22 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:01:22 +0200
Subject: Python on the Power PC
References: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <did3k3$9lh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Milliken wrote:

> There were Tkinter binaries with it so I installed those as well. When I
> attempt to run the most simplistic of python programs using Tkinter, I get
> an error message stating that Python can't find any tkinter module.
>
> Any ideas what I have done wrong anybody?

what does "import _tkinter" say ?

where is the _tkinter.so module (or whatever that's called on the pocket pc,
or power pc, or what it is you're using) installed ?  what is sys.path set to ?

running

    python -vv -c 'import _tkinter'

might provide you with additional clues.

</F>





From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Fri Oct 28 11:03:43 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:03:43 -0400
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndm3p71.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndm3p71.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djtekk$f89$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> If you are concerned about sorting times, I think you should
> be more concerned about Guido's idea of doing away with __cmp__.
> Sure __lt__ is faster. But in a number of cases writing __cmp__
> is of the same complexity as writing __lt__. So if you then
> need a __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__ and __ge__ it
> would be a lot easier to write a __cmp__ and have all rich
> comparisons methods call this instead of duplicating the code
> about six times. So you would be more or less forced to write
> your class as class cld or cle. This would have a bigger
> impact on sorting times than my suggestion.

Honestly, I don't really mind the idea of __cmp__ going away; for 
classes that behave Normally with respect to a single __cmp__ value, 
it's easily possible to write a CompareMixin that defines __lt__, 
__gt__, etc. for suitable __cmp__ values.

Much like DictMixin is part of the standard library.


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 13:33:18 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:33:18 -0400
Subject: Binding a variable?
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86hdbau65d.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Dale <pd at traxon.com> writes:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that
>
> temp = 5
>
> list = [ temp ]
>
> temp == 6
>
> list
>
> would show
>
> list = [ 6 ]

No. You need to either put a mutable in the list, or subclass list so
that indexing gets the value, looks it up in the appropriate
namespace, and returns that value.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 05:18:54 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:18:54 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.15.09.18.51.764494@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

I was going to sit this one out, as being obvious flame-bait, but Jeroen's
post appears to be reasonable, and yet so utterly wrong that it needs to
be responded to.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 07:52:57 +0200, Jeroen Wenting wrote:

>>>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>>>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
>>
>> They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are evil, not
>> because they have a large market share.
> 
> no, they got their by clever marketing and generally having a product that 
> was easier to use for the average user than anything the competition made 
> and a lot more powerful than other products created for their main target 
> market.

That's what Microsoft would like us to be believe, but it isn't what the
historical record shows.

The historical facts show that Microsoft had one piece of good fortune,
which they leveraged into the massive corporate empire they have today:
the US Justice Department investigated IBM for abuse of monopoly position.

That investigation lead to IBM playing it safe when they decided to move
into the personal computer market with the IBM Junior. Instead of making
their own operating system, they went out and licenced one from Microsoft.
And because they were desperate to licence something *quickly*, they
foolishly signed an agreement with Microsoft whereby Microsoft got paid
for every PC that they shipped *regardless of whether it had PC-DOS or not*.

IBM did the work to make PC-DOS a de facto standard, which allowed
Microsoft to foist that same sort of agreement on PC clone manufacturers.
This was anti-competitive in the extreme. Who in the highly competitive,
low-margin PC business would commit economic suicide by paying Microsoft
for DOS, and pay another operating system manufacturer as well, unless the
customer asked for the other operating system? The result was, everybody
shipped with MS-DOS, and competition got a bullet in the head.

This was illegal, and in the early 1990s the US Justice Department slapped
Microsoft with a consent decree where Microsoft agreed to stop breaking
the law and the DoJ agreed not to prosecute.

(To see how much they have stopped, you just try buying a laptop or
a Tier One PC with no operating system or something other than Windows.
The Tier One vendors won't do it, or if they do, you pay just as much for
the operating system free PC as the one with Windows. Hands up anyone who
thinks that Dell gets Windows for free?)

Even with the luck of IBM's foolish mistake, Microsoft couldn't quite
knock out their last operating system competitor, DR-DOS. And that's where
they got really dirty. Months before Windows 3.1 was released, they
started sending out test versions of Windows to journalists to review. In
those days, Windows ran as an application on top of DOS. Journalists
discovered that Windows generated an error on DR-DOS. In their reviews,
they of course reported that Windows wouldn't run on DR-DOS. This
effectively killed DR-DOS -- consumers wanted an operating system that
would run Windows.

When Windows was released, a few IT professionals noticed that it would
run under DR-DOS. Of course it was too late now: the DR-DOS market was
effectively gone, except for a few diehards. One of these people was
Andrew Schulman, who wondered why there was a great big piece of encrypted
code inside the review version of Windows 3.1, with a flag that shut the
test off in the release version.

Schulman wrote:

"Whether in spite or because of the books Undocumented DOS and
Undocumented Windows, I've often had to publicly defend Microsoft against
what I felt were acts of scapegoating from whining competitors ..."

No enemy of Microsoft is he.

Schulman discovered that this code had no purpose except to detect DR-DOS,
and then put up a misleading and pointless warning message.

For details, see: http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=1030/ddj9309d/9309d.htm

See also:

http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/factrel.html
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Microsoft#Monopoly_and_legal_issues
http://www.base.com/software-patents/articles/stac.html

Microsoft has *repeatedly* been found guilty of engaging in illegal
practices, including outright theft of code, perjury ("oh no judge, this
is not a doctored video"), breaking non-disclosure agreements, misleading
conduct, patent and copyright infringement, and breach of contract. In
addition, they have engaged in unscrupulous and unethical behaviour,
including "astro-turf" media campaigns where they have written letters on
behalf of non-existent and dead people to pretend that they had more
community support than they really have.

Perhaps my favourite example of Microsoft's behaviour is what they did to
the inventors of Internet Explorer. IE was originally called Mosaic, one
of the first graphical web browsers in existence. Mosaic was licenced from
Spyglass, on the basis of a percentage of sales. Microsoft then promptly
bundled the re-named Mosaic/IE with Windows, making IE sales equal to (can
you do the maths?) zero.

Let's see now... some percentage of zero is... zero.


> Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
> If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be no 
> other software manufacturers at all.

So according to Jeroen, if every computer in the world ran Windows,
except for one thrity-year-old Amstrad in somebody's basement, Microsoft
wouldn't have a monopoly. Yeah, right. 

In law and in economics, a monopoly does not mean that there are
absolutely no competitors to a supplier. That is an overly literal
definition, and is about as sensible as arguing that a fly swatter isn't a
fly swatter because you can also use it to squish spiders.

At the time the US Justice Department tackled Microsoft (for the *second*
time, I should point out) Microsoft had approximately 98% of all desktop
PC operating systems in the USA, and approximately the same around the
world. 98% is close enough to 100% to be a monopoly. Economically, 80% is
probably enough market share to be effectively a monopoly (although that
depends on precisely what market we're talking about).

Today, Microsoft's share of the desktop has fallen to perhaps 93% or
90%, still giving them effective monopoly power.


> Prices would be far far higher than they are today, like they were back in 
> the days before Microsoft started competing with the likes of Ashton Tate 
> and WordPerfect corporation by offering similar products at 20% the price 
> (which is the real reason they got to be top dog, they delivered a working 
> product for a fraction of the price their competition did, and the 
> competition couldn't drop their prices that much and remain profitable).

In Jeroen's dreams. Perhaps some reality check is needed here. In 1989, I
purchased MS Word for approximately $100, and Word Perfect for about $90.
(Prices are in Australian dollars, not adjusted for inflation.) Word
Perfect was discounted somewhat because it was a "cross-grade" from Word.
If I recall correctly, the normal price was about $120. Excel was also
about $100.

By contrast, I paid $4000 for my PC and a dot matrix printer.

Today, I can buy a PC for $500, a monitor for an extra $100, and a laser
printer for another $200 dollars: $800 all up. The recommended retail
price of MS Office is $1000. My PC has plummeted in price, falling by 80%,
while MS Office has gone up in price by 150%.

But who pays recommended retail price on Office? A more realistic price is
the OEM price, which is about $300 here. So while my PC has become
thousands of times more powerful, it has fallen in price by 80%, while
Word and Excel have had only incremental improvements, but have increased
in price by 50%.

That is a textbook example of monopoly power in action.


> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more
> powerful than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used
> only dumb mainframe terminals.
> IBM's prediction that there would be 5 computers (not counting game
> computers like the Comodores and Spectrums) by 2000 would likely have
> come true.

Except for, oh I don't know, Apple, Apricot, Amstrad, Wang, Xerox, and all
the other thousands of computer companies that existed before Microsoft
destroyed competition in the software arena.

IBM's prediction, for the record, was well before Steve Jobs and Steve
Wozniak had invented the personal computer with the Apple. IBM's
prediction at a time when everybody thought that computers would cost
billions of dollars and be as large as a house. Trying to credit Microsoft
for the invention of the PC is foolish to the extreme. Microsoft didn't
even exist when the Apple II was bringing computers to ordinary people.



-- 
Steven.



From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 17:40:09 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 14:40:09 -0700
Subject: Question about inheritance...
Message-ID: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a base class called Shape
And then classes like Circle, Square, Triangle etc, that inherit from
Shape:

My quesiton is can a method of the Shape class call a method in Circle,
or Square etc...?



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 20 12:47:53 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:47:53 -0400
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86fyqwuocm.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"hagai26 at gmail.com" <hagai26 at gmail.com> writes:

> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
> in a str, like this:
> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
> I know I can use spilt and than join them
> but I can also use regular expressions
> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one

Assuming you know the whitespace will be spaces, I like find:

new = "/aa/" + old[old.find(' '):]

As for efficiency - I suggest you investigate the timeit module, and
do some tests on data representative of what you're actaully going to
be using.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Wed Oct  5 13:06:35 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:06:35 GMT
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
	<mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128531995.4560.18.camel@blackwidow>

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 12:56 -0400, Jonathan LaCour wrote:
> Oops, you forgot to return object.__new__(cls, x) in the case the  
> object isn't in the cache.  That should fix it. 

Ahh, that did it.  I didn't even think of calling object...

so the new class looks like:

class Spam(object):
    cache = {}
    def __new__(cls, x):
        if cls.cache.has_key(x):
            return cls.cache[x]
        else:
            new_Spam = object.__new__(cls, x)
            cls.cache[x] = new_Spam
            return new_Spam
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.x = x

a = Spam(2)
b = Spam(2)

a == b # => True
id(a) == id(b) # => True

Thanks for all your help.



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Mon Oct 31 15:03:45 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:03:45 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051031200345.GE2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 31, dudufigueiredo at gmail.com wrote:
> ...
> obs: the file names came this way(with spaces or apostrophes) from
> the cd i imported.

So remove them first.  Here's a possible solution::

    #! /usr/bin/env python

    import glob, os.path

    uglies = glob.glob("*.mp3")
    print 'uglies:', uglies
    pretties = []

    for ugly in uglies:
        song, ext = os.path.splitext(ugly)
        song = song.replace("'", "")
        song = song.replace(" ", "_")
        song = song.title()
        song = "The_Beatles_-_" + song[3:]
        song_ext = song + ext
        pretties.append(song_ext)

    print 'pretties:', pretties 

    # rename uglies to pretties...

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Oct 10 10:11:42 2005
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:11:42 +0300
Subject: Perl's documentation come of age
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1125179974.483320.116780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127299284.748225.68560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1582.1128570740.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6dqkk1157t6gsnvnckmlbeq6tgui5f0nmv@4ax.com>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:36:47 -0600, rumours say that Mahesh Padmanabhan
<sutram at gmail.com> might have written:

>In article <1127299284.748225.68560 at g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:
>
><snip lot of drivel>

>While I don't like to feed the trolls, I do find his posts amusing. He 
>is like a spoilt child seeking attention.

s/is like/is/
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best.
"Dear Paul,
please stop spamming us."
The Corinthians


From grant.bodie at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 12:17:15 2005
From: grant.bodie at gmail.com (grant.bodie at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:17:15 -0700
Subject: Good news and bad news!!
Message-ID: <1129306635.757572.214590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

The Bad news is i am an IT Recruiter......The good news is that i have
a great role for a developer with strong Python skills.

Ideally along with that they will have Java and either an understanding
of Agile development or experience in using Ruby.

?35 - ?45k, London

Contact me for more information
01189897601
grant at connectionsrecruit.co.uk



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 02:29:56 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:29:56 -0700
Subject: how to make this code faster
In-Reply-To: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dikut5$v09$1@sea.gmane.org>

ajikoe at gmail.com wrote:
> def f(x,y):
>     return math.sin(x*y) + 8 * x
> I have code like this:
> 
> def main():
>     n = 2000
>     a = zeros((n,n), Float)
>     xcoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
>     ycoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
> 
> 
>     for i in range(n):
>         for j in range(n):
>             a[i,j] = f(xcoor[i], ycoor[j])  # f(x,y) = sin(x*y) + 8*x
> 
>     print a[1000,1000]
>     pass
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     main()

Ufuncs are your friend:

from scipy import *

def f(x, y):
    return sin(x*y) + 8*x

def main():
    n = 2000
    ycoor = linspace(0.0, 1.0, n)
    xcoor = transpose(atleast_2d(ycoor))

    a = f(xcoor, ycoor)
    print a[1000, 1000]

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Mon Oct 24 23:42:15 2005
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:42:15 +1300
Subject: [OT] Re: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <XLOdnfAZisSgB8DenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>	<200510241425.45538.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2500.1130205850.509.python-list@python.org>
	<XLOdnfAZisSgB8DenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <00F0DAE2-F60D-4551-89D9-A8B70A8CCBB6@ihug.co.nz>

On 25/10/2005, at 3:36 PM, Steven Bethard wrote:

> I wouldn't fret too much about a sharp remark from Fredrik Lundh.
> They're pretty much all that way. ;) [...] It takes a little  
> training to get used to
> him, but if you can look past the nasty bite, he's really a valuable
> resource around here.

+1 QOTW :)

=Tony.Meyer



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 01:22:13 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:22:13 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h57scd.1pw648u1szwybqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<qwweeeit at yahoo.it> wrote:
    ...
> For the other Alex observations (about Mac OsX and my examples of
> automation centered on web automation) I have a PC, and the fact that
> Python is very good at dealing with the web, doesn't help too much
> in this case...

All of your sensible use cases were about the Web; the fact that you
have a PC is irrelevant to this observation.

> In any case a macro language like AutoIt is a general purpose
> application.

"General purpose" is, I believe, an overbid here -- if what you're doing
is simulating keystrokes, you're limited to the purposes that can in
fact be achieved through keystroke-simulation.  And I've pointed you to
an application that can run under Linux to simulate keystrokes (which,
of course, applications are able to detect as being simulated, if they
want to implement very strong security on this plane).  What, exactly,
is stopping you from using Python to drive that application, if the
simulation of keystrokes is the pinnacle of your heart's desire?

If what you're whining about is that Linux applications can be built to
be secure (rejecting fake keystrokes, among other things), then stick
with Windows and its endless flood of malware.  If you want security,
don't complain about the existence of security.


Alex


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 17:30:02 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 21:30:02 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<divdik$vmj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> 
>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> 
>>>     You don't get it. The point is, you can pick any Linux
>>>     distribution and
>>> still use the same applications. This is exactly what Microsoft
>>> *doesn't* want. They want applications to be locked to Microsoft
>>> OSes. For then to do this, applications have to be as tied to the OS
>>> as possible. The browser as a target platform threatened this
>>> Microsoft vision, so Microsoft reacted by trying to corner the
>>> browser market and balkanize Java.
> 
>> And when are we going to see this browser as a target platform?
> 
>     It may not happen, or it may. The future of computing is not known
>     at 
> this point.

So you think that MS, based on something that might (or might not 
happen) somewhere in a future, burned a lot of money?

>> No: the historical fact is that MS whiped Netscape of the planet.
>> That you come up with "They were afraid that everybody would be
>> running NS Office online using Netscape" is just a guess.
> 
>     No, it's well-documented fact that Microsoft's entry into the
>     browser 
> war was precisely because they feared that browsers would become the
> new operating systems.

Where can I read that well-documented fact?

>> MS just seems to ignore a certain development for some time, then
>> state it's not significant, and next they are an important player.
>> This is not limited to "MS missed the Internet, almost...". They
>> don't miss anything, they just don't jump on every hype.
> 
>     What is your explanation for why MS decided it was so important to
> control the browser market? You think MS was too stupid to realize
> that web-based applications threatened to make desktop OSes
> interchangeable? 

And you think MS is so stupid to just jump through hoops because 
something that still isn't here, might have been there like 8 years ago?

Can you show me what companies MS bought to justify their fear for a 
major move to thin client computing?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From davecook at nowhere.net  Thu Oct 20 00:40:53 2005
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 04:40:53 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129778582.411476.259500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129781346.035866.16660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndle7ur.3ou.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

On 2005-10-20, elbertlev at hotmail.com <elbertlev at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Languages are very similar but Python has more cale avaliable. Much
> more.

Cale?  You mean Python has more ruffage?

Dave Cook


From mark at markroseman.com  Tue Oct 18 15:24:38 2005
From: mark at markroseman.com (Mark Roseman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:24:38 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<mark-247ED9.12341218102005@news.isp.giganews.com>
	<86ek6iy790.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <mark-C3CD9F.15243818102005@news.isp.giganews.com>

> You elided the paragraph where I pointed out the third alternative:
> provide a better experience for the 95%, and an ok experience for the
> 5%. WWW technologies are designed to degrade gracefully - it's easy to
> take advantage of that.

What I'm suggesting is taking the effort you'd put to the 5%, and 
applying that effort instead to making the 95% even better.  If that 
extra effort would affect conversion rates, it's a justifiable option.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 19 00:36:32 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:36:32 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<u3dbl1l2pbsdluivl7l4enl9k440ci9tif@4ax.com>
	<dj4esv$q09$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <48jbl1honbc8ccfnkuo0bjatmqi5bqfks4@4ax.com>


On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:34:55 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

> As for obligations to community, no, there is no such obligation. An 
>executive who devoted his company to his community against his shareholders' 
>wishes should be fired. The company exists as a vehicle to execute the 
>desires of the shareholders. That's why they get to vote on who runs it.

Why should loyalty to company trump all other loyalties -- family,
law, species,  community, country, religion ... ?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From sbassi at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 22:25:57 2005
From: sbassi at gmail.com (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:25:57 -0300
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
Message-ID: <b43bf2080510101925q3d443057i5e3b2b2937d35587@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/05, Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> after Guido's pronouncement yesterday, in one of the next versions of Python
> there will be a conditional expression with the following syntax:
> X if C else Y

I don't understand why there is a new expression, if this could be
accomplished with:

if C:
 X
else:
 Y

What is the advantage with the new expression?

--
<a href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=24672&t=1">La
web sin popups ni spyware: Usa Firefox en lugar de Internet
Explorer</a>


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct  2 02:08:07 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 06:08:07 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>

On 30 Sep 2005 05:23:35 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
>> > It's not easy if the base classes change after you check your code in.
>> > You shouldn't need to know about that if it happens.  Modularity, remember?
>> 
>> Yes. And if you are relying on a public method in a class, and somebody
>> dynamically modifies that public method, your code will stop working too.
>
>I'm not talking about dynamic anything.  I'm talking about a normal
>software project where there are multiple people working on the code.
>You write a class and carefully make sure that none of its private
>variables collide with superclasses in modules that it imports.  You
>check in your code and go do something else.  Then the person
>maintaining the superclasses goes and changes how they use their
>private variables.  He doesn't look at your code since his modules
>don't import yours.  But now both your code and his are broken.
>
>> perhaps that mathematical certainty is appropriate for
>> your ICBM control system or nuclear reactor, but it is a needless
>> affectation for (say) a word processor. 
>
>Why on earth would you want to unnecessarily introduce random bugs
>into a word processor or anything else?  And what happened to the
>marketing claims that Python was good for critical applications?
>Maybe I should post your disclaimer every time one of those
>discussions comes up.  "Python is ok for word processors but no good
>for anything important".  Heck, some people think word processors are
>important.

I decided to read this thread today, and I still don't know exactly
what your requirements are for "private" whatevers. No one seems to
have discussed what you could do with properties and __getattribute__
and metaclasses and decorators, yet there are many possibilities
that might satisfy some or maybe all your requirements. I probably
missed something...

Semantically, you seem to be wanting to write a class with methods
accessing a selected subset of "variables" "privately." Obviously
if the class e.g. is C, there are many ways to spell C().private_var
and C.private_var. and self.private_var etc., "self" being only
a conventional spelling for an instance ref in the method context.

What "privately" seems to mean is that within a method using
private_var, you'd still like the code to read self.private_var,
and not be translated to self.__some_kind_of_extreme_mangling_private_var
even if the mangling had vanishing collision probability, like a name
built from a secure hash GUID algorithm, right?

Also, if an outside access to an instance said inst.private_var = 123
that would be ok, and bind a public attribute of that name as usual
without interfering with the methods using the bona fide self.private_var?
Or should it be an attribute error (which would thus leak the name even
if it didn't make access possible).

I take it that a clever subclassing trick (like a post somewhere in this thread
showed) should not provide access, but how about the inspect module?
Or an expression like instance.__dict__[1] if that was the sneaky spelling
of instance.private_var? (note that integers are not allowed for instance attributes,
even via get/setattr. (BTW & OTOH, interestingly type.__setattribute__(cls, att) allows integer att)
Where do you want to draw the line?
 
I'm not trying to be provocative, just to get the requirements defined ;-)

What if you could define a class something like

    class C(object):
        # privatize factory makes callable to make the changes and clean up after itself
        __metaclass__ = privatize(method_foo='private_var1 pv2', method_bar='pv2')
        ...

and have method_foo access self.private_var1 and self.pv2 as effectively private variables,
and method_bar only self.pv2 and everything else work as usual? Would that meet your
requirements? I'm not sure I could do this with just a tricky metaclass, but I am pretty
sure if you allowed byte-code-munging decoration calls from the metaclass to mess with
method_foo and method_bar (as specified in the privatize factory call args), I could.

I think I would collect the private variable names and enumerate them to produce integer "names"
for use in accessing the values via self.__dict__[integer_name].

The byte-code munging would then translate accesses to the selected names would be translated
to use the appropriate subscript constant integer_names (which would be added to the method function
constant list as necessary) and you would have .e.g.
    LOAD_FAST                0 (self)
    LOAD_ATTR                1 (__dict__)
    LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
    BINARY_SUBSCR

in place of say
    LOAD_FAST                0 (self)
    LOAD_ATTR                1 (pv2)


i.e., _SUBSCR ops instead of _ATTR ops, and analogously for STORE_ATTR and STORE_SUBSCR,
(obviously just done to the method variable accesses specified in the privatize factory call).

Alternatively, the metaclass could create a central private value dict as a hidden cell closure
variable, and the methods could be munged to have a reference constant to that hidden dict, and
then self.priv_var code could be munged to <hidden_dict_ref_constant>[id(self), 'priv_var'].

This would still leave the access door open via something like
type(instance).__dict__['method_foo'].func_code.co_consts[1][id(instance), 'priv_var']
so, again, where do you want to draw the line. Starting and communicating with a slave debugger
in another (privilaged) process?

Alternatively, it might be possible to define (in the metaclass call) __getattribute__ for the class
so that it notices when method_foo or method_bar are being accessed to create bound methods, and then bind in
a proxy "self" instead that would have self.private_var on its own "self" and delegate public
attribute accesses to the normal self. Maybe this could get around byte-code-munging at the cost
of easier breakin than via inspect etc., and less run time efficiency. Just musing ...

But the bottom line question is, would you actually use this privacy feature?

Or maybe, what are your real requirements?
;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 02:22:16 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:22:16 -0700
Subject: Can Python replace TCL/Expect
In-Reply-To: <1128578298.778640.313900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128578298.778640.313900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di2fqo$1p1$1@sea.gmane.org>

xinchenvn at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I'm learning Python. I don't know whether Python can do something like
> Expect can do. If yes, please show me how to do it.
> I want to do something automatically: open connection to a ftp server,
> get the welcome message on the screen (not in the packet). I can do it
> easily with Expect but I still don't have any idea with Python.
> If possible, can you introduce me some book or website that I can get
> infor about automation programming with Python

You'll probably want to take a look at pexpect:

  http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From renting at astron.nl  Mon Oct 24 04:15:02 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:15:02 +0200
Subject: IDE recommendation please
Message-ID: <s35cb42b.085@server7.nfra.nl>

>>>>"kery" <kerysso at gmail.com> 10/23/05 9:33 am >>> 
>Alex Martelli wrote: 
>>microsnot <microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com> wrote: 
>> 
> 
>Any suggestions for Linux, specifically SuSE or perhaps Red Hat? 
> 
>Thanks in advance, 
>Kery 
> 

Eric3


From http  Mon Oct 17 16:00:33 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 13:00:33 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Torsten Bronger <bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de> writes:
> Because everybody is capable of running a JS engine, even on
> computers on which you don't have rights to install something.

I don't think using JS so heavily without a compelling reason is
really in the WWW spirit.  Lots of browsers don't have JS.  And lots
of JS is so annoying that some users like to turn it off even in
browsers that have it.


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Thu Oct 20 12:45:40 2005
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:45:40 +0200
Subject: sort problem
In-Reply-To: <1129825485.883210.297890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <4357c22d$0$8481$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
	<1129825485.883210.297890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4357c9a4$0$8498$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> How about:
> 
> list.sort(key=lambda x: x[3])
> 
> Does that work?
> 

Yes, on my linux-test-box it work, but I my developer pc I don't have
the 2.4 yet. I think that this is a good reason for update :)

Thanks,
Michele


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 10:42:43 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:42:43 +0200
Subject: regarding python and c++ interaction
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1534.1128519487.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1534.1128519487.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3qi734Ff2ukhU1@uni-berlin.de>

> i am new to python.i hav to call function of c++ .so file(shared
> library)on linux.
> any how i am not able to do that.
> i had made one zoo.so file.when i import it this gives the following error...
> 
> 
>>>>import zoo
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: ./zoo.so: undefined symbol: _Znwj

That won't work. Use ctypes, swig, SIP or write a pythen extension.
> 
> can u plz help me in that matter

This is no SMS - no need to resort to l337 speak here...

Diez


From newsgroups at schestowitz.com  Sat Oct 15 03:18:47 2005
From: newsgroups at schestowitz.com (Roy Schestowitz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:18:47 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diqakh$1vbu$2@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>

__/ [Xah Lee] yelled on Saturday 15 October 2005 03:01 \__

> Microsoft Hatred, FAQ
> 
> [The world is actually round]

Hmmm... 3 year-old 1-pager... PageRank 5.

I sure hope it's not a troll, as some other responders suggested, because I 
cited that site in my blog several hours ago.

Remove? leave out link? It's rel="nofollow"ed for the time being.

Roy

-- 
Roy S. Schestowitz      | Linux + tax = Mac OS = (Windows - functionality)
http://Schestowitz.com  |    SuSE Linux    |     PGP-Key: 74572E8E
  8:10am  up 50 days 20:24,  5 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.26, 0.30


From kent37 at tds.net  Wed Oct 19 11:43:20 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:43:20 -0400
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2257.1129734041.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>	<m3mzl87am5.fsf@localhost.localdomain>	<pan.2005.10.17.13.16.41.654136@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<dj4858$2t0$1@domitilla.aioe.org>	<pan.2005.10.19.14.02.16.956637@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.2257.1129734041.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4356679b$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Micah Elliott wrote:
> On Oct 20, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>>That's not what I get. What are you using?
>>
>>py> pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2], 5], width=1, indent=4)
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>TypeError: pprint() got an unexpected keyword argument 'width'
> 
> 
> I find it useful to have all relevant python versions (as listed on
> http://www.python.org/download/) installed on my primary test
> machines.

If you want to know when a feature was introduced, the docs are often helpful:

pprint(  	object[, stream[, indent[, width[, depth]]]])
<snip>
    Changed in version 2.4: The parameters indent, width and depth were added. 

Kent


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Tue Oct 11 07:47:27 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:47:27 +0200
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
References: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1h49sus.1q07g48v1q1i1N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:
   ...
> fn(1, 2, 3)
> fn(1, 2, 3, cmp=lambda x, y: y-x)
> fn(1, 2, 3, cpm=lambda x, y: y-x) # TypeError on this

I assume these are your specs.

> or is the "proper python" way simply this:
> 
> def fn(*values, **options):
>      if "cmp" in options: comparison = options["cmp"]
>      else: comparison = cmp
>      # rest of function here
> 
> and thus ignoring the wrong parameter names?

Errors should not pass silently, unless explicitly silenced.

So, I would code:

def fn(*values, **opts):
  cmp = opts.pop('cmp', cmp)
  if opts: raise ValueError, 'Unknown option(s): %s' % opts.keys()
  # rest of function here

There are some cases where ignoring extra options, or just warning about
them, may be more appropriate, but normally I would check...


Alex


From scapt at unil.ch  Wed Oct 19 04:57:38 2005
From: scapt at unil.ch (=?iso-8859-1?B?U+li?=)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 01:57:38 -0700
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
In-Reply-To: <1h4ocwa.184dksqmnv1q1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ocwa.184dksqmnv1q1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1129712258.200656.202440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


> Essentially, if I understand correctly, you want to detect LOOPS given a
> sequence of directed connections A->B.  "loop detection" and "graph"
> would then be the keywords to search for, in this case.

Exactly, but the sequence has to be discovered by the piece of code !

> Does this "then" imply you're only interested in loops occurring in this
> *sequence*, i.e., is order of connections important?  If the sequence of
> directed connections was, say, in the different order:
>
> B->C
> A->B
> C->A
>
> would you want this detected as a loop, or not?

Yes, it would be nice to detect it as a loop, with for example a
threshold. Btw, it would be nice to ignore additional connections in
such a way :

B->C # Normal connection
D->E # Additional connection to ignore
A->B # Normal connection
C->A # Normal connection

Would it be possible ?

Thank you very much



From gt_mac at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 17:36:08 2005
From: gt_mac at yahoo.com (gt182)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:36:08 -0700
Subject: Python adodb
In-Reply-To: <1129168043.315586.138040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129158246.494302.140670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434db297$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129168043.315586.138040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129239368.347968.254360@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you everyone for your posts. Listed below is the correct code,
solution reached. And to include the username and password you can
simply inter it behind Persist Security devieded off with semicolons.







con = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Connection')
DSN = r'Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data
Source=C:\test.mdb;Mode=ReadWrite;Persist Security Info=False'
con.Open(DSN)



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 11:09:46 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:09:46 +0200
Subject: Absolultely confused...
References: <1128563928.3513.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <di3ent$6i4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeremy Moles wrote:

> So, here is my relevant code:
>
> PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)
>
> And here ismy error message:
>
> argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d

try adding

    printf("%p %p\n", &PyType_vector3d, arg1->ob_type);

before the parsetuple statement.

> I guess my question is: what in the world could be causing this to fail?

multiple instances of the type object.

</F>





From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Wed Oct  5 23:08:03 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 03:08:03 GMT
Subject: Python eats gator.
In-Reply-To: <cone.1128553380.42802.26947.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
References: <cone.1128553380.42802.26947.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
Message-ID: <ny01f.674$PA1.83324@monger.newsread.com>

Sam wrote:
> http://www.wnbc.com/family/5060215/detail.html
> 
> I know there's an on-topic joke in here somewhere, but I'm having some
> problem finding it, at the moment.
> 
> You may take a crack at it, if you'd like?

Hmm... has anyone ever written a spyware removal tool in Python?


From oshecho at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 09:26:18 2005
From: oshecho at gmail.com (Echo)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:26:18 -0400
Subject: Help with creating a dict from list and range
Message-ID: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Here is what I am trying to do. I am trying to make a dict that has a key
that is the value an element in a list and the value for the dict to be the
index.
This is the closest I have been able to get:
dict((d[0],i) for d in self.cu.description for i in xrange(len(
self.cu.description)-1))

That however does not work. the value for all the dict is 40. Not 1, 2, 3,
... that I was hoping for.

Am I even close at creating the dict that I want? Is there a better way to
go about it?

--
-Echo
-------------- next part --------------
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From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 27 09:09:32 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:09:32 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <djqjic$qb7$1@sadr.dfn.de>

David Schwartz wrote:
> Iain King wrote:
> 
> 
>>Don't you see how your metaphor doesn't work?
> 
> 
>     No.
> 
> 
>>It would only be
>>fitting if Microsoft OWNED the outlet.
> 
> 
>     Huh?
> 

I would think that if I set up a shop and wanted to have the word 
"Microsoft" as part of the shop name, there would be some rules 
dictating what products I could and could not sell, yes. Wether those 
rules are set forth in a law somewhere or Microsoft set them forth 
themselves, I would find it hard to believe that the law would prohibit 
them from doing so.

Otherwise I could set up a shop, call it "Microsoft Porsgrunn" and sell 
machines with only Linux installed.

I think Microsoft would be allowed to say "No, you can't do that".

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From smcg4191zz at friizz.RimoovAllZZs.com  Sun Oct 23 01:00:54 2005
From: smcg4191zz at friizz.RimoovAllZZs.com (Stuart McGraw)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:00:54 -0600
Subject: wxpython - passing arg to wx.app OnInit
Message-ID: <11lm687nih0l7ac@corp.supernews.com>

I have a wxPython app, conventionally structured
with a Application class derived from wx.App.
My problem is that the app accepts a command
line argument that must be acted upon within the
OnInit() method of the Application class.  How do
I pass it cleanly from main() into app.OnInit()?  In 
the simplified example below, dbfn is the piece of 
info that is in main() that OnInit() needs to use.
Is a global variable is the only way?  :-(

class Application (wx.App):
    def OnInit (self):
        oper = Operations (dbfn);
        frame = Frame (None, -1, "Title", oper)
        self.SetTopWindow (frame)
        return True

def main ():
    dbfn = sys.args[1]
    app = Application (redirect=0)
    app.MainLoop ()

Apologies if the answer is (or should be) obvious... this
is my first time using wxWindows and I am still rather new 
to Python.


From http  Thu Oct 13 16:38:40 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 13:38:40 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<b89rk1phchi0224ha46cq1k1rqvld2a3jf@4ax.com>
	<11krdosli1jgla7@corp.supernews.com>
	<XFm3f.10321$y_1.7586@edtnps89>
	<11ktbum1ira9le4@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns96EE8772BFB9Fbguild31425@64.59.144.76>
Message-ID: <7xk6gh6tkf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brendan Guild <dont at spam.me> writes:
> This was a problem, but modern browsers implement Javascript in such a 
> way that it requires permission from the user before it will open a new 
> window.

Not really true, it's easy to defeat that, and also generally the
pop-up blocker only blocks window.open on load events.  JS can usually
still open windows when you mouse over something.

> All of those things seem like major problems except the bit about 
> cookies. What possible harm can reading and setting cookies do? I had 
> always thought they were carefully and successfully designed to be 
> harmless. That's not personal information in your cookies. That 
> information is set by websites for the sole purpose of being read by 
> websites.

If you have a cookie from site ABC on your system, that shows you
visited site ABC sometime in the past.  That is personal information
all by itself, that shouldn't be revealed (including to site ABC)
without your permission.  And that doesn't even begin to address web
bugs.

If the JS from site ABC can also read cookies set by unrelated site
XYZ, that's an absolute disaster.  It can steal login credentials and
anything else.  MSIE actually had a bug of that type a few years ago.


From durumdara at mailpont.hu  Thu Oct  6 03:33:43 2005
From: durumdara at mailpont.hu (durumdara at mailpont.hu)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:33:43 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Copy files to Linux server through ssh tunnel
Message-ID: <43279.195.228.229.142.1128584023.squirrel@195.228.229.142>

Hi !

I have some backup files on a server farm.
I want to store these local backup files on a backup file server for
"safety's snake".

These files are compressed zip files with 12 character length password.
But my system admin asked me, how can I improve the safety of the copy
operation, and the storing (now I use Samba share to store these files. I
map the SMB share on the client, copy these files, and unmap SMB).

Then I thinking to ssh protocol to improve protection.

The backup script is a py script. I see that Winscp can copy files through
ssh tunnel. Can I do it too ?
How ? How to I do it in pythonic way ?

Please help me with some examples or urls or other infos !

Thanks * 1000:
dd







----------------------------------------------
1 Gbyte Ingyenes E-Mail T?rhely a MailPont-t?l
http://www.mailpont.hu/



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 23:34:55 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:34:55 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<u3dbl1l2pbsdluivl7l4enl9k440ci9tif@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj4esv$q09$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:u3dbl1l2pbsdluivl7l4enl9k440ci9tif at 4ax.com...

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.

>>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.

>>    That's almost as convincing as "that's what you think".

> If your only obligation is to a group of person, that makes you a sort
> of slave.

    If you voluntarily take on a job that includes obligations, and have the 
right to leave any time you want, you are not any sort of a slave.

> What about obligations to family, community, yourself?

    Microsoft has no family, and doesn't have a self in this sense. 
Microsoft executives have obligations to family, but this should not affect 
their performance as executives, in which capacity their obligations are to 
their shareholders.

    As for obligations to community, no, there is no such obligation. An 
executive who devoted his company to his community against his shareholders' 
wishes should be fired. The company exists as a vehicle to execute the 
desires of the shareholders. That's why they get to vote on who runs it.

    That does not mean that acting to support the community can't be the 
shareholder's wishes or can't be in the bests interests of the shareholders, 
of course. But qua corporation, it's purely a vehicle to execute the 
shareholders' wishes.

    Corporate executives also have an obligation to obey the law, of course. 
If, hypothetically, you had a company that had a majority of shareholders 
who wanted to break the law, an ethical executive would pretty much have to 
quit.

    DS




From leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam  Tue Oct 11 22:35:24 2005
From: leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam (Andy Leszczynski)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:35:24 -0500
Subject: piping out binaries properly
Message-ID: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>

I have got following program:

import sys
import binascii
from string import *
sys.stdout.write(binascii.unhexlify("41410A4141"))


when I run under Unix I got:

$ python u.py > u.bin
$ od -t x1 u.bin
0000000 41 41 0a 41 41

and under Windows/Cygwin following:

$ python u.py > u.bin
$ od -t x1 u.bin
0000000 41 41 0d 0a 41 41
0000006


The question is how can I pipe out binary content properly and platform
independently?


A.


From abraxas.alucard at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 01:03:39 2005
From: abraxas.alucard at gmail.com (hugo hernandez diaz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:03:39 -0600
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <c6ae8ad70510182203kb0703ecu@mail.gmail.com>

hola la vdd lei su documento pero no le entoendo bien mas que nada
puedo crear algo con este programa si la respuesta es si mas o menos
que si la respuesta en no entoncs pa que sirve a ademas no me pueden
pasar oyta guia mas facil mmm soy medio lento de aprendizaje gracias


From future_retro at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 05:51:48 2005
From: future_retro at yahoo.co.uk (future_retro at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 02:51:48 -0700
Subject: Python script to install network printers
In-Reply-To: <1128468336_42527@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <mailman.1446.1128439429.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128468336_42527@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1128505908.385584.63490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

The target OS needs to support WMI so 2000 or XP.



From programmer.py at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 14:53:45 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:53:45 -0500
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F16@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
References: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F16@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510061153p6ea5c053w41939ef9e5f5e57c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/05, Bell, Kevin <kevin.bell at slcgov.com> wrote:
> I like pythonWin other than the white background where you write your scripts, because after awhile it's bad on the eyes.  Does anyone know of a free IDE that will allow control of this, as well as the coloring of keywords, etc?
>

xemacs will do this.  But it will take "some getting used to" if you
have never used it.

jw


From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Oct 18 22:09:14 2005
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 19:09:14 -0700
Subject: bug in os.system?
In-Reply-To: <1129670946.365516.217780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129617198.528491.125830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2209.1129629414.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129670946.365516.217780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129687754.684881.99130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


nicksjacobson at yahoo.com wrote:
> OK, I give up.  Why does workaround #2 work?

Well, there was a time when the cmd prompt treated all
spaces as delimiters, so

    >cd My Documents

would fail. Nowadays you can do that successfully and even

    >cd My Documents\My Pictures

works.

In the old days, if a directory had a space, you had to
enclose it in quotes

    >cd "My Documents"

But you didn't actually need to include the trailing quote,
so you could get away with

    >cd "My Documents

I'm sure if you looked it up, Microsoft would say

    This behaviour is by design.


>
> Also, I didn't realize this before, but when you call os.spawnv, the
> argument list you pass starts with the name of the executable you're
> calling!  When you call a program from cmd.exe, that program name is
> the first parameter automatically.  But with spawnv, you do that
> manually!
> 
> Anyway, thanks for your help!



From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Tue Oct 18 22:44:05 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:44:05 -0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org><3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org><3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3rlj78Fjsu7mU1@individual.net>

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list at python.org...
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
> > "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> [...]
> [Claudio]
> >>>I don't fully understand your attitude here. The Web Browser interface
> >
> > has
> >
> >>>all I can imagine is required for a GUI, so what is missing when you
> >>>consider, that you can generate custom images on the fly on the server
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>let the user shape the page without requesting CPU power from the
server
> >>>using JavaScript.
> >>
> >>In this case then, I'm afraid the failure is in your imagination :-)
> >
> >
> > Any useful hints towards enlightenment except criticism?
> >
> Perhpas the mistake I made was bearing in mind the title of the thread,
> and the fact that this is a Python newsgroup.
> >
> >>>I don't even name here the not really beeing itegral part of Internet
> >>>Browsers JavaApplets and any other kind of plugin stuff.
> >>>The only issue I can see with this approach is the speed of responding
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>user interactions, but for really optimize this one needs a compiled
> >>>language anyway.
> >>>What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser
> >
> > as a
> >
> >>>GUI?
> >>>Do I miss here something?
> >>>
> >>
> >>While you are correct in saying (I paraphrase) that HTML interfaces
> >>nowadays can offer a rich graphical interface, it can be quite difficult
> >>to manage state maintenance between the two components (web server, web
> >>client) in the system.
> >
> >
> > The cause of confusion here is, that HTML interfaces don't necessary
need a
> > web server and HTTP to work. I mean, that Internet Browsers
> > have an API which allow access to them directly, so they can be used
without
> > a server as a kind of GUI library supporting widgets programmed
> > in HTML and JavaScript  (I haven't used them yet in this form, but I
think
> > it should be no problem - right or not?).
> >
> You are perfectly correct that interfaces can be programmed in the
> browser. As has already been said, with the adoption of standards like
> CSS2, it's even possible to make such stuff run across multiple browser
> platforms (at the moment, though, just try writing an interface that
> makes table rows appear and disappear in a cross-browser fashion: you'll
> find the stylesheet techniques you need to use for Mozilla and IE are
> very different). But this doesn't help you at all if you are trying to
> interface to Python logic.
> >
> >>A "proper" GUI runs all functionality inside a single process, and
> >>allows much easier control over complex interactions, creation of
> >>dynamic dialogues, and so on.
> >
> > Complex and dynamic is in my eyes possible with HTML and JavaScript, so
I
> > still don't see where is a problem with this approach. I have programmed
> > already a HTML and JavaScript driven server platform and know about (the
> > solvable) problems with the back-button and sessions (it is sure not the
> > easiest way of programming a GUI).
> > The only disadvantage of not using plugins or Java is, that real time
> > interactions are not possible, but this is in my eyes usually not the
> > requirement for a standard kind of GUI with no gaming, no Virtual
Reality
> > and no timing of user response down to milliseconds (but consider, that
with
> > a good speed of connection it is even possible to play blitz chess over
the
> > Internet).
> >
> So, back to the subject: with an HTML/Javascript interface, how do you
> propose to bolt Python logic into the same process? Or do you admit that
> the application that interacts with such an interface either has to be
> all JavaScript or in a separate process?
I haven't used it in such configuration yet, but I mean, that it is not a
bad idea to use local DHTML files (i.e. HTML with JavaScript) combined with
a Python driven HTTP server like e.g. Karrigell which makes it possible to
access local files by executing Python scripts triggerred by demand raised
by submitting to it DHTML form data resulting from user input.
So mixing JavaScript in local DHTML files for performing what can be done
with JavaScript inside HTML and a HTTP server capable of executing Python
scripts will do the job which JavaScript alone can't because of lack of
access to the local file system and another parts of the computer system on
which such kind of UI is executed.
Another possible scenario I have in mind is to control the Internet browser
directly from a Python script using DHTML as a language for definition of
appearance and specification of necessary data processing of in the browser
displayed UI. This way the Internet browser and HTML with JavaScript can be
considered an UI toolkit for use in Python.
Hope with this above to have got Python back on topic.

Claudio





From iddw at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 14:31:51 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:31:51 GMT
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kd19ajdtkoi6f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1128709915.677e761b4ee3431140a6964c46a02b82@teranews>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:24:42 -0000, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com>
wrote:

>On 2005-10-07, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
[...]
>>
>> "Some village in Texas are missing their idiot"
>
>At least that one is consistent, though it sounds "wrong" to US
>ears.

The Germans have a word for it (sounds "wrong"): Sprachgefuhl,
literally a feeling for the language.

[...]
>
>Don't get me started on _that_ one.  I found it particularly
>horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it "nucular" -- he had
>studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at
>least be able pronounce the word.

"I was talking to my daughter, Amy, last night..."

Regards,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 09:11:40 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:11:40 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djqc0r$3fd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xhdb35ghc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djqhpm$5oh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <djqjmd$6de$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

David Schwartz wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:

>> If the trial court
>> determines a fact and it's upheld on appeal, it's an established
>> legal fact regardless of whether you or Microsoft likes it.

    I just found this article: http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=88

    I don't agree with all of it, and it contains a few minor technical 
errors. But it does sum up most of my view on this particular aspect of the 
topic.

    DS




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 21 19:31:39 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:31:39 GMT
Subject: override a property
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43596739.609969800@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:00:51 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> Robin Becker a ?crit :
>> 
>>> Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need 
>>> to create another class with the property changed?
>> 
>> 
>> Do you mean attributes or properties ?
>
>I mean property here. My aim was to create an ObserverProperty class 
>that would allow adding and subtracting of set/get observers. My current 
>implementation works fine for properties on the class, but when I need 
>to specialize an instance I find it's quite hard.
>
Sorry, but my news feed went belly-up for a few days and I had to go to
google groups to see what had transpired.

ISTM you are already a fair way along the lines of Alex's suggestion of a custom
descriptor class, having chosen to create it by subclassing property.

If it is ok to add attributes to instances, you could put overriding
observer functions there and just check for them in your __notify_fset
loop, e.g., by checking for a matching name with an '__override_' prefixed
to the name of the obs function you want to override (see example below).

If it's not ok to add instance attributes, you could store the information
elsewhere, using weak-ref stuff as Alex suggests.

E.g. (I'm pasting in as a quote what I copied from google):


>bruno modulix wrote:
>.....
>> 
>> Could you elaborate ? Or at least give an exemple ?
>.....
>in answer to Bengt & Bruno here is what I'm sort of playing with. Alex suggests 
>class change as an answer, but that looks really clunky to me. I'm not sure what 
>Alex means by

>> A better design might be to use, instead of the builtin
>> type 'property', a different custom descriptor type that is specifically
>> designed for your purpose -- e.g., one with a method that instances can
>> call to add or remove themselves from the set of "instances overriding
>> this ``property''" and a weak-key dictionary (from the weakref module)
>> mapping such instances to get/set (or get/set/del, if you need to
>> specialize "attribute deletion" too) tuples of callables.

>I see it's clear how to modify the behaviour of the descriptor instance, but is 
>he saying I need to mess with the descriptor magic methods so they know what 
>applies to each instance?

I think maybe only insofar as __notify_fset is magic ;-)

>## my silly example
>class ObserverProperty(property):
>     def __init__(self,name,observers=None,validator=None):
>         self._name = name
>         self._observers = observers or []
>         self._validator = validator or (lambda x: x)
>         self._pName = '_' + name
>         property.__init__(self,
>                 fset=lambda inst, value: self.__notify_fset(inst,value),
>                 )

>     def __notify_fset(self,inst,value):
>         value = self._validator(value)
>         for obs in self._observers:
              obs = inst.__dict__.get('__override_'+obs.func_name, obs)

>             obs(inst,self._pName,value)
>         inst.__dict__[self._pName] = value

>     def add(self,obs):
>         self._observers.append(obs)

>def obs0(inst,pName,value):
>     print 'obs0', inst, pName, value

>def obs1(inst,pName,value):
>     print 'obs1', inst, pName, value

>class A(object):
>     x = ObserverProperty('x')

>a=A()
>A.x.add(obs0)

>a.x = 3

>b = A()
>b.x = 4

>#I wish I could get b to use obs1 instead of obs0
>#without doing the following
I think your class assignment would eliminate all x-observing functions,
but did you mean strictly just to "use obs1 instead of obs0" -- which
would mean to leave others operable?

## >class B(A):
## >     x = ObserverProperty('x',observers=[obs1])
##
## >b.__class__ = B

b.__override_obs0 = obs1

# Of course you could wrap that last line functionality in some helper thing ;-)

>b.x = 7

With the above mods put in becker.py, I get:

 >>> import becker
 obs0 <becker.A object at 0x02EF3C2C> _x 3
 obs0 <becker.A object at 0x02EF3C4C> _x 4
 obs1 <becker.A object at 0x02EF3C4C> _x 7

But adding another observer doesn't eliminate the other(s):

 >>> def obs3(inst,pName,value):
 ...     print 'obs3', inst, pName, value
 ...
 >>> becker.A.x.add(obs3)
 >>> becker.b.x = 777
 obs1 <becker.A object at 0x02EF3C4C> _x 777
 obs3 <becker.A object at 0x02EF3C4C> _x 777
 >>> becker.a.x = 777
 obs0 <becker.A object at 0x02EF3C2C> _x 777
 obs3 <becker.A object at 0x02EF3C2C> _x 777

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 07:34:19 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:34:19 +0100
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <1130231775.770582.199690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<djks4r$pth$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130231775.770582.199690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djl57r$vmv$2@sea.gmane.org>

Joerg Schuster wrote:
>>What happens if you up the limit to whatever you need?
> 
> 
> Good idea. I just tried this. Nothing evil seems to happen. This seems
> to be a solution. Thanks.
> 
> J?rg
> 
The joys of open source. Just remember you have now made your program 
non-portable. Hope this isn't an issue.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 17 10:31:31 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:31:31 +0200
Subject: reading hebrew text file
References: <1129558279.759330.199890@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj0ck4$3bo$1@sea.gmane.org>

hagai26 at gmail.com wrote:

> I have a hebrew text file, which I want to read in python
> I don't know which encoding I need to use

that's not a good start.  but maybe it's one of these:

    http://sites.huji.ac.il/tex/hebtex_fontsrep.html

?

> how I do that

    f = open(myfile)
    text = f.readline()

followed by one of

    text = text.decode("iso-8859-8")
    text = text.decode("cp1255")
    text = text.decode("cp862")

alternatively, use:

    f = codecs.open(myfile, "r", encoding)

to get a stream that decodes things on the fly.

</F>





From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct  3 04:23:41 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 08:23:41 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Well I'm a bit getting sick of those references to standard idioms.
> There are moments those standard idioms don't work, while the
> gist of the OP's remark still stands like:
> 
>   egold = 0:
>   while egold < 10:
>     if test():
>       ego1d = egold + 1
> 

Oh come on. That is a completely contrived example, and besides you can 
still rewrite it easily using the 'standard idiom' at which point it 
becomes rather clearer that it is in danger of being an infinite loop even 
without assigning to the wrong variable.

for egold in range(10):
    while test():
        pass

I find it very hard to believe that anyone would actually mistype ego1d 
while intending to type egold (1 and l aren't exactly close on the 
keyboard), and if they typed ego1d thinking that was the name of the loop 
variable they would type it in both cases (or use 'ego1d += 1') which would 
throw an exception.

The only remaining concern is the case where both ego1d and egold are 
existing variables, or more realistically you increment the wrong existing 
counter (j instead of i), and your statically typed language isn't going to 
catch that either.

I'm trying to think back through code I've written over the past few years, 
and I can remember cases where I've ended up with accidental infinite loops 
in languages which force me to write loops with explicit incremements, but 
I really can't remember that happening in a Python program.

Having just grepped over a pile of Python code, I'm actually suprised to 
see how often I use 'while' outside generators even in cases where a 'for' 
loop would be sensible. In particular I have a lot of loops of the form:

   while node:
       ... do something with node ...
       node = node.someAttribute

where someAttribute is parentNode or nextSibling or something. These would, 
of course  be better written as for loops with appropriate iterators. e.g.

   for node in node.iterAncestors():
      ... do something with node ...


From jmdeschamps at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 17:05:42 2005
From: jmdeschamps at gmail.com (jmdeschamps at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 14:05:42 -0700
Subject: Set operations for lists: pythonic hints please!
Message-ID: <1129842342.308921.201270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Working with several thousand tagged items on a Tkinter Canvas, I want
to change different configurations of objects having a certain group of
tags.

I've used the sets module, on the tuple returned by Tkinter.Canvas.
find_withtag() method.

Since this method takes only one tag at time, I use it for each tag
that is part of the look-up group, create a set object for each tuple
and intersect the resulting sets, that I tuple out again to feed a loop
to change the configuration of the items.

Anyone have a more pythonic way (or better performing ) way to suggest
?

Thanks in advance,

Jean-Marc

# My test code
# the code is not generic here
# my question only pertains to the intersection algorithm perse

from Tkinter import *
import random, sets

root=Tk()

m1 = Canvas(root,width=410,height=410)
m1.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=1)
for i in range(10):
    x=random.randrange(1,400)
    y=random.randrange(1,400)
    m1.create_oval(x,y,x+10,y+10,fill="red",tags=("etoile","rouge"))

for i in range(10):
    x=random.randrange(1,400)
    y=random.randrange(1,400)

m1.create_rectangle(x,y,x+10,y+10,fill="red",tags=("artefact","rouge"))

for i in range(10):
    x=random.randrange(1,400)
    y=random.randrange(1,400)

m1.create_rectangle(x,y,x+10,y+10,fill="green",tags=("artefact","green"))

#
i=m1.find_withtag("artefact")
j=m1.find_withtag("rouge")

s1=sets.Set(i)
s2=sets.Set(j)

s3=s1.intersection(s2)
myIntersection=tuple(s3._data.keys())

for i in myIntersection:
    m1.itemconfig(i,fill="black")

root.mainloop()



From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Oct 10 18:53:07 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:53:07 GMT
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk6glhvgl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.10.22.53.07.40262@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:13:14 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> "dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
>> [quoted text muted]
> 
> No. It's vulnerable to dictionary search.  Use SRP if you can.

Where can I learn more about this?

Thanks!



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct  3 12:44:11 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:44:11 +0200
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
In-Reply-To: <7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <43415fdd$0$7364$636a55ce@news.free.fr>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> 
>>No, but that is precisely why Python's semi-private variables are
>>usually better. Names like _X and class.__X are warnings to the developer
>>"use these at your own risk", without preventing developers who need them
>>from using them. You have most of the benefits of private variables with
>>none of the disadvantages.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but I thought the idea was to actually reduce the risk of
> bugs, not merely attach the risk to the right person. 

I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong - at least according to Python's
"we're all consenting adults here" philosophy.

> If changing the
> way a class uses its own private variables breaks an application
> because another class was using the private variable unexpectedly,
> then that's bad,

No, it's just an obvious side-effect of the programmer messing with
implementation stuff. He knew from the start it was implementation
detail, so he accepted that this may change without notice and break its
code. period.

> regardless of whether the other class's author was
> notified or not.
>
>  It's better to let the compiler automatically flag
> these things, than to depend on conventions.

Nope. *you* think it's better. Most of us here obviously think that
relying on convention is a good (and even better) solution - and the
fact is that it works just fine.


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sun Oct 30 19:44:06 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:44:06 -0600
Subject: Controlling output using print with format string
Message-ID: <3sl7mnFordm3U1@individual.net>

It is clear that just using 'print' with variable names is relatively 
uncontrollable.  However, I thought that using a format string would 
reign the problem in and give the desired output.

Must I resort to sys.stdout.write() to control output?

$ python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, Jul 19 2005, 14:16:43)
[GCC 4.0.0 20050519 (Red Hat 4.0.0-8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> s = 'now is the time'
 >>> for c in s:
...     print c,
...
n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e
 >>> for c in s:
...     print "%c" % (c),
...
n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e
 >>> for c in s:
...     print "%1c" % (c),
...
n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 15:02:09 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:02:09 +0200
Subject: Class methods
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
Message-ID: <di17vd$gj3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Class methods"Hughes, Chad O" wrote:

> Is there any way to create a class method?

somewhat ironically, the first google hit for that sentence is a chapter in the
python tutorial that *doesn't* explain how to create class methods...

as others have pointed out, the classmethod wrapper/descriptor is (probably)
what you want.  some additional reading:

http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#staticmethods
http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/2004/12/15/the-static-method-thing
http://soiland.no/software/decorator

also note that you may find that using a function at the module level leads to
nicer code than using a classmethod/staticmethod, especially if you look at
things from the caller's perspective.

</F> 





From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Oct 18 12:45:33 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:45:33 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <4355268b$0$4203$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Mike Meyer a ?crit :
> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> 
>>Maybe that's the key difference between the mindset of a
>>mathematician and that of an engineer -- I consider reaching over
>>95% of visitors to be _quite good indeed_,
> 
> 
> Oh? So you'd consider an SMTP/IMAP/POP/DNS/NFS/etc server that
> rejected 5% of the systems connecting to be _quite good indeed_? I
> think I'm glad that the internet wasn't built by people who agreed
> with that.
> 
> If you know what you're doing, you can have the best of both worlds
> for a lot of web applications. Yes, it won't be as rich or functional
> for the five percent who worry about security (or whatever), but it'll
> still work. And yes, you can't do it for every application. For those,
> anyone vaguely competent will add a warning.
> 
> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
> told that that's what's going on.
> 
>       <mike

Last time I checked, it was only 60% of the users with Javascript 
enabled. Not sure about the current ratio but with the various locked 
down IE installs it doesn't surprise me too much.


From iainking at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 11:12:42 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:12:42 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.25.14.37.01.642699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130242672.024469.324530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.12.40.57.426304@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1130247035.969150.281910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.37.01.642699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:30:35 -0700, Iain King wrote:
>
> >
> > Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:17:52 -0700, Iain King wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> >> >> Joerg Schuster wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups.
> >> >>
> >> >> define "more" (101, 200, 1000, 100000, ... ?)
> >> >>
> >> >> </F>
> >> >
> >> > The Zero-One-Infinity Rule:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Nice in principle, not always practical. Sometimes the choice is, "do you
> >> want it today with arbitrary limits, or six months from now with bugs
> >> but no limits?"
> >>
> >> If assigning arbitrary limits prevents worse problems, well, then go for
> >> the limit. For instance, anyone who has fought browser pops ups ("close
> >> one window, and ten more open") may have wished that the browser
> >> implemented an arbitrary limit of, say, ten pop ups. Or even zero :-)
> >>
> >
> > Well, exactly.  Why limit to ten?  The user is either going to want to
> > see pop-ups, or not.  So either limit to 0, or to infinity (and indeed,
> > this is what most browsers do).
>
> I haven't been troubled by exponentially increasing numbers of pop up
> windows for a long, long time. But consider your question "why limit to
> ten?" in a wider context.
>
> Elevators always have a weight limit: the lift will operate up to N
> kilograms, and stop at N+1. This limit is, in a sense, quite arbitrary,
> since that value of N is well below the breaking point of the elevator
> cables. Lift engineers, I'm told, use a safety factor of 10 (if the
> cable will carry X kg without breaking, set N = X/10). This safety
> factor is obviously arbitrary: a more cautious engineer might use a
> factor of 100, or even 1000, while another might choose a factor of 5 or
> 2 or even 1.1. If engineers followed your advice, they would build lifts
> that either carried nothing at all, or accepted as much weight until the
> cable stretched and snapped.
>
> Perhaps computer programmers would have fewer buffer overflow security
> exploits if they took a leaf out of engineers' book and built in a few
> more arbitrary safety factors into their data-handling routines. We can
> argue whether 256 bytes is long enough for a URL or not, but I think we
> can all agree that 3 MB for a URL is more than any person needs.
>
> When you are creating an iterative solution to a problem, the ending
> condition is not always well-specified. Trig functions such as sine and
> cosine are an easy case: although they theoretically require an infinite
> number of terms to generate an exact answer, the terms will eventually
> underflow to zero allowing us to stop the calculation.
>
> But unfortunately that isn't the case for all mathematical calculations.
> Often, the terms of our sequence do not converge to zero, due to round-off
> error. Our answer cycles backwards and forwards between two or more
> floating point approximations, e.g. 1.276805 <-> 1.276804. The developer
> must make an arbitrary choice to stop after N iterations, if the answer
> has not converged. Zero iterations is clearly pointless. One is useless.
> And infinite iterations will simply never return an answer. So an
> arbitrary choice for N is the only sensible way out.
>
> In a database, we might like to associate (say) multiple phone numbers
> with a single account. Most good databases will allow you to do that, but
> there is still the question of how to collect that information: you have
> to provide some sort of user interface. Now, perhaps you are willing to
> build some sort of web-based front-end that allows the user to add new
> fields, put their phone number in the new field, with no limit. But
> perhaps you are also collecting data using paper forms. So you make an
> arbitrary choice: leave two (or three, or ten) boxes for phone numbers.
>
> There are many other reasons why you might decide rationally to impose an
> arbitrary limit on some process -- arbitrary does not necessarily mean
> "for no good reason". Just make sure that the reason is a good one.
>
>
> --
> Steven.


I think we are arguing at cross-purposes, mainly because the term'
arbitrary' has snuck in.  The actual rule:

 "Allow none of foo, one of foo, or any number of foo." A rule of
thumb for software design, which instructs one to not place random
limits on the number of instances of a given entity.

Firstly, 'for software design'.  Not for field engineers servicing
elevators :)

Second, it's [random], not [arbitrary].  I took your use of arbitrary
to mean much the same thing - a number picked without any real
judgement involved, simply because it was deemed larger than some
assumed maximum size.  The rule does not apply to a number selected for
good reason.

I don't think I get your phone record example:  Surely you'd have the
client record in a one-to-many relationship with the phone number
records, so there would be (theoretically) no limit?

Your web interface rang a bell though - in GMails contacts info page,
each contact has info stored in sections.  Each of these sections
stores a heading, an address, and some fields.  It defaults to two
fields, with an add field button  Hitting it a lot I found this maxed
out at 20 fields per section.  You can also add more sections though -
I got bored hitting the add section button once I got to 51 sections
with the button still active.  I assume there is some limit to the
number of sections, but I don't know what it is :)  GMail is awesome.

Anyway, back to the OP: in this specific case, the cap of 100 groups in
a RE seems random to me, so I think the rule applies.

Also, see "C Programmer's Disease":
http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/C/C-Programmers-Disease.html

Iain



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sat Oct  1 19:58:05 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 00:58:05 +0100
Subject: User-defined augmented assignment
In-Reply-To: <433beda9$0$7354$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <433beda9$0$7354$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510020043180.22776@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005, Pierre Barbier de Reuille wrote:

> a discussion began on python-dev about this. It began by a bug report, 
> but is shifted and it now belongs to this discussion group.
>
> The problem I find with augmented assignment is it's too complex, it's
> badly explained, it's error-prone. And most of all, I don't see any
> use-case for it !
>
> The most common error is to consider that :
>
> a += b <==> a.__iadd__(b)
>
> when the truth is :
>
> a += b <==> a = a.__iadd__(b)
>
> which can be very confusing, as the two "a" are not necessarily the
> same.

Indeed. I certainly didn't realise that was how it worked.

> So, what I would suggest is to drop the user-defined augmented 
> assignment and to ensure this equivalence :
>
> a X= b <=> a = a X b
>
> with 'X' begin one of the operators.

That seems quite an odd move. Your proposal would lead to even more 
surprising behaviour; consider this:

a = [1, 2, 3]
b = a
a += [4, 5, 6]
print b

At present, this prints [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]; if we were to follow your 
suggestion, it would be [1, 2, 3].

So, -1, i'm afraid.

I think the right solution here is staring us in the face: if everyone 
seems to think that:

a += b <==> a.__iadd__(b)

Then why not make it so that:

a += b <==> a.__iadd__(b)

Principle of Least Surprise and all that.

Since not everything that should support += is mutable (integers, for 
example), how about saying that if the recipient of a += doesn't have an 
__iadd__ method, execution falls back to:

a = a + b

I say 'a + b', because that means we invoke __add__ and __radd__ 
appropriately; indeed, the __add__ vs __radd__ thing is a precedent for 
this sort of fallback.

Doesn't that leave everyone happy?

tom

-- 
I'm not quite sure how that works but I like it ...


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 10:46:01 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 07:46:01 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> Before, after, or during the .start() call, or somewhere else?

I'd like to catch *just after* the .start() call.

> I'm quite sure the problem you are trying to solve can be solved, but
> you are still describing part of the solution you believe you need,
> rather than explaining why you want to do this (which may let us show
> you other, simpler or cleaner ways to accomplish your goals).

The thing is that I have in ProgramB a class derived from
threading.Thread, that runs a TCPServer, listening to a port on local
ip address.

As you surely know, you have to specify certain parameters when
instantiating the tcpserver:

SocketServer.TCPServer(server_address, RequestHandlerClass)
where server_address is a tuple (ip,port)
ip has to be one of three modes of values (If I remember well):

1. A null string ''
   Listens on all IP local address

2. A string containing the local IP address where you want it to listen
   Listens only in the specified local IP address

3. A string containing "localhost".
   Listens only for connections from "localhost".

Here comes the problem:
When you specify the case number 2, the IP must be valid for the
computer where the program runs, otherwise, it raises an exception
saying that "Can't assign requested address".
The TCPServer class, defined in a module, is ran (instantiatedly) from
the main program through a started thread. The thread also is in the
same module as TCPServer class.
It looks like (it's much more code than this. If you want the whole
code, tell me):

MainProgram.py
...
SrvrTCP = module.ThreadedTCPServer(ip,port)
SrvrTCP.start()
#Here, I want to know if the TCPServer started well.
...


module.py
...
class ThreadedTCPServer(threading.Thread):

    def __init__(self, ip,port):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.ip= ip
        self.port= port

    def run(self):
        TCPServer((self.ip,self.port)) #Here, if the self.ip is
invalid, it raises an exception.
...



From me at privacy.net  Fri Oct  7 19:55:38 2005
From: me at privacy.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:55:38 -0400
Subject: os.access with wildcards
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
	<mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128698792.787399.160460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86psqhnrx4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1128727042.273430.64640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2fyrc51c5.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>

On 7 Oct 2005 16:17:22 -0700,
"mike" <no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Mike.  Would there be an idiom using "is"?
> somethng like

>     glob.glob('2005*) is not Empty

> I have not figured out what to put on the right hand
> side of "is"

Don't put anything there:

    if glob.glob('2005*'):
        print 'there is at least one matching file'
    else:
        print 'there are no matching files'

Regards,
Dan

-- 
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>


From ganzhi at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 05:25:35 2005
From: ganzhi at gmail.com (James Gan)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:25:35 +0800
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
Message-ID: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

I want the object printed in a readable format. For example,
x =[a, b, c, [d e]] will be printed as:
x--a
  |_b
  |_c
  |___d
    |_e

I tried pickled, marshel. They do different work. Is there another 
module which do this kind of job?

Thanks!
James Gan


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  6 15:51:16 2005
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (elbertlev at hotmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 12:51:16 -0700
Subject: date reformatting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1627.1128622152.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1627.1128622152.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128628276.853635.173000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

setup.py install



From uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com  Thu Oct 27 08:01:05 2005
From: uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com (uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 05:01:05 -0700
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2631.1130407311.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1130406274.356454.141040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2631.1130407311.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130414465.535765.66030@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

thanks for the tip. That did it! Though I have one funny:

i've got Active State Python 2.4 installed and so the line has to
read

--packages _xmlplus.sax.drivers,_xmlplus.sax.drivers2

Thanks again,
Martin.



From lesstif-admin at lesstif.org  Fri Oct 21 04:55:47 2005
From: lesstif-admin at lesstif.org (lesstif-admin at lesstif.org)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:55:47 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Request to mailing list Lesstif rejected
Message-ID: <20051021085547.D5F951E4034@bag.python.org>

Your request to the Lesstif mailing list

    Posting of your message titled "hello"

has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
following reason for rejecting your request:

"Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list."

Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
at:

    lesstif-admin at lesstif.org


From buffer_88 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 14 21:16:59 2005
From: buffer_88 at hotmail.com (George)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 18:16:59 -0700
Subject: XML dom question
Message-ID: <1129339019.065675.314480@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

How can I do the following in python:

compare the text in the element tags <li> with the elements
tags in filling and if they match replace the text within the elements
tags <li> with the text in the matching element tag of fillin.
For example Since the text Monday in form matches the Element tag
<Monday> in fillin put maandag in the element tag <li> of Monday.


Kind of a Pseudo Code

 Fo information:
 get element tags for li
 get text for li


 Fi information:
 get childtags for dutchdays


 if(text for li=child tags for dutchdays):
   replace child tags for dutchdays text with text for li

Some pieces of code that I tried out but cannot put together to get the
results.

import xml.dom.minidom
from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
import xml.xpath

form="""
<html>
<head> <title> My Sample Web Page </title> </head>
<body bgcolor="white">
<p>
What are the weekdays?
<ol>
<li>Monday</li>
<li>Tuesday</li>
<li>Wednesday</li>
<li>Thursday</li>
<li>Friday</li>
</ol>
</p>
</body>
</html>
"""
fillin="""
<dutchdays>
<Monday>maandag</Monday>
<Tuesday>dinsdag</Tuesday>
<Wednesday>woensdag</Wednesday>
<Thursday>donderdag</Thursday>
<Friday>vrijdag</Friday>
<Saturday>zaterdag</Saturday>
<Sunday>zondag</Sunday>
</dutchdays>
"""


fo=xml.dom.minidom.parseString(form)
fi=xml.dom.minidom.parseString(fillin)

mon=fi.getElementsByTagName('Monday')
monlist=mon[0]
m=monlist.childNodes[0]
mo=m.data
fri=fi.getElementsByTagName('Friday')
frilist=fri[0]
f=frilist.childNodes[0]
fr=f.data

for li in xml.xpath.Evaluate("//li", form_doc):
 li.normalize()
 day_text = li.childNodes[0]
 day_str = day_text.nodeValue


Thanks for the help!!



From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Tue Oct  4 17:19:37 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (Mohammed Smadi)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:19:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: how to get any available port
In-Reply-To: <11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041716530.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2005-10-04, ncf <nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hmm...perhaps he is trying to do a transfer thing like many chat
> > programs do. Instead of sending large files across a server, you
> > "Direct Connect" and send the file directly. :shrugs:
> 
> So how does that require binding the client end of a TCP
> connection?
> 
> 
what else would you do?  I am using examples from the web and they all 
bind to a port at the localhost before connecting to the remote host.

my code is like this

#transmission socket
s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,  socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
s.bind(("",hp_port)) # do some error checking


data="HI"
print data
s.connect(('192.168.2.13',port))
s.send(data)
print "\n"

which is working fine for me after putting the 
s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1) statement

any suggestions for alternative implementation?

moe smadi



From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Thu Oct  6 19:12:22 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:12:22 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
Message-ID: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

Hello,

I'm looking for any work/paper/ressource about continuous system
simulation using Python or any similar object oriented languages (or
even UML theory !).

I'm aware of SimPy for discrete event simulation, but I haven't found
any work about continuous system.
I would like to develop a generic continous system simulator, and so
would be eager to join any open source effort on the subject.

For instance, it would be useful for modelling an airplane with all the
dynamics (flight simulator).

Python is my language of choice because of the keyword 'generic'. Being
an object oriented dynamic language, it's perfect for such a task.
Unfortunately I'm a novice when it comes to object oriented
design and development, so I would prefer to start from something
already existent instead of starting from scratch.

If you had any idea on the subject, I would be really glad to discuss it
with you.

Thanks in advance,

P.S. : for email, replace nowhere by yahoo


From carsten at uniqsys.com  Tue Oct 11 15:26:06 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:26:06 -0400
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
In-Reply-To: <1129058051.426314.28670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1914.1129055650.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129056123.654224.18070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129058051.426314.28670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129058766.24295.101.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Tue, 2005-10-11 at 15:14, Java and Swing wrote:
> Anyhow, I need PyBuildValue to work.

Try Py_BuildValue.

HTH,

Carsten Haese.




From mcarter at uk.ibm.com  Mon Oct 10 11:04:23 2005
From: mcarter at uk.ibm.com (Marc Carter)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:04:23 +0100
Subject: subprocess and non-blocking IO (again)
Message-ID: <434a80e4_2@news3.prserv.net>

I am trying to rewrite a PERL automation which started a "monitoring" 
application on many machines, via RSH, and then multiplexed their 
collective outputs to stdout.

In production there are lots of these subprocesses but here is a 
simplified example what I have so far (python n00b alert!)
- SNIP ---------
import subprocess,select,sys

speakers=[]
lProc=[]

for machine in ['box1','box2','box3']:
     p = subprocess.Popen( ('echo '+machine+';sleep 2;echo goodbye;sleep 
2;echo cruel;sleep 2;echo world'), stdout=subprocess.PIPE, 
stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, stdin=None, universal_newlines=True )
     lProc.append( p )
     speakers.append( p.stdout )

while speakers:
     speaking = select.select( speakers, [], [], 1000 )[0]
     for speaker in speaking:
         speech = speaker.readlines()
         if speech:
             for sentence in speech:
                 print sentence.rstrip('\n')
                 sys.stdout.flush() # sanity check
         else: # EOF
             speakers.remove( speaker )
- SNIP ---------
The problem with the above is that the subprocess buffers all its output 
when used like this and, hence, this automation is not informing me of 
much :)

In PERL, "realtime" feedback was provided by setting the following:
$p->stdout->blocking(0);

How do I achieve this in Python ?

This topic seems to have come up more than once.  I am hoping that 
things have moved on from posts like this:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5472ce95eb430002/434fa9b471009ab2?q=blocking&rnum=4#434fa9b471009ab2
as I don't really want to have to write all that ugly 
fork/dup/fcntl/exec code to achieve this when high-level libraries like 
"subprocess" really should have corresponding methods.

If it makes anything simpler, I only *need* this on Linux/Unix (Windows 
would be a nice extra though).

thanks for reading,
Marc


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 05:35:19 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:35:19 GMT
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
Message-ID: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

There's no really specific questions in this post, but I'm looking for 
people's thought on the issues within...


The two main versions I've encountered for data pseudo-hiding 
(encapsulation) in python are:

method 1:

_X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
       know that this data should be private.


method 2:

__X - (double underscore) - mangles the name (in a predictable way).
       Avoids name pollution.


How often does either tend to get used? Personally, I'd be a little 
worried about using method 1, because namespace clashes could happen. Is 
this overly paranoid?

Also, I presume that rather than people writing their own manual getter 
and setter methods, they tend to use either overloading on __getattr__ 
and __setattr__, or the Property class (which itself uses aforementioned 
  methods). Overloading __getattr__ etc. seems more attractive to me, as 
then I can capture access to unknown names, and raise an exception!
(I really don't like the idea of random attribute name typos going 
unnoticed when accessing attributes in a class!)

Note: I do know that the use of the above things is quite dependent on 
what exactly you're coding, the size of the project etc., but what I'm 
trying to find out about is the python communities' recognised good 
practices.

thanks,
alex



From benji at benjiyork.com  Mon Oct  3 08:25:08 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:25:08 -0400
Subject: Finding the Process Path
In-Reply-To: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62153@hqemail2.spss.com>
References: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62153@hqemail2.spss.com>
Message-ID: <43412324.4060908@benjiyork.com>

Peck, Jon wrote:
> I have Python code running in an application, and I would like to find 
> the full path of the process executable where it is running.

Like this?

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.executable
'/usr/bin/python'
--
Benji York




From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct  7 04:25:22 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:25:22 +0200
Subject: Can't extend function type
In-Reply-To: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3qmpnjFfp2h3U1@uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Oh well.  I had wanted to be able to define two functions f and g, and
> have f*g be the composition of f and g.
> 
>     >>> func_type = type(lambda: None)
>     >>> class composable_function(func_type):
>     ...   def __mult__(f,g):
>     ...     def c(*args, **kw):
>     ...       return f(g(*args, **kw))
>     ...     return c
>     ...
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
>         type 'function' is not an acceptable base type
>     >>>
> 
> Seems like a wart to me.

Well - function inheritance is not known so far in python - and in no 
other language I know.

How do you expect to create f and g, even if above construct would work? 
Basdically you want __mult__ being part of f or g when python encounters 
  something like this

f * g

But then how did you plan to declare f?

def f(composable_function)(x):
     pass


obviously won't work.

So the only way to achieve this with current semantics is to make f anf 
g objects with a call methods. In that very moment, you're done - as 
extending from object is no problem :)


class ComposeableFunction(object):

     def __call__(self, *args, **kwargs):
	return self.second(self.first(*args, **kwargs))

     def __mul__(self, other):
	nc = ComposeableFunction()
	nc.first = other
	nc.second = self
	return nc


class f(ComposeableFunction):
     def __call__(self, x):
	return x * 2


class g(ComposeableFunction):
     def __call__(self, x):
	return x + 2


f = f()
g = g()

print f(4)
print g(4)
print (f*g)(4)


Diez


From renting at astron.nl  Mon Oct 17 04:22:43 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:22:43 +0200
Subject: OT: On Microsoft monopolies, was MS FAQ
Message-ID: <s3537b88.068@server7.nfra.nl>

>>>"Jeroen Wenting" <"jwenting athornetdotdemondotnl"@bag.python.org> 10/16/05 11:49 am >>> 
% 
%"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
%news:t3k623-c5c.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es... 
%>In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> 
%>wrote: 
%>>Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more 
%>>powerful 
%>>than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
%>>mainframe terminals. 
%> 
%>Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting 
%>at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M), 
%>running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts. 
%> 
%And how many people who now have $500 PCs ($200 of which is the cost of the 
%OS) would have been able to afford those? 
% 
%My point is that Microsoft made computers that were more than glorified 
%gaming consoles affordable for the common man. 
%They are the ones who lowered the price of shrinkwrapped software for home 
%and office application from thousands or tens of thousands to hundreds of 
%dollars. 
% 
% 

Microsoft never made any computers (before Xbox that is) and never had any control over the hardware price. The prices of hardware have very little to do with the software they run, but mostly with developements in IC manufacturing techniques.

As for prices on software, they went down because the market expanded, because of cheaper hardware.

The only real technological advantage MS had over a lot of it's competitors, is that it tried to have it's OS run on as much hardware as possible. Not being tied to a single hardware vendor is what made MS big. IBM's choice not to create their own OS, and use of the shelve parts, has enabled all the clone builders (most notably Compaq) to enter the PC-compatible market easily.

I think commercial software in general is a market that tends towards creating monopolies, because of the network effect. MS played the right tactics to become the OS monopoly. It has since been using all kinds of shady, sometimes illegal tactics to maintain this monopoly, and leverage it to gain others.

The Car+engine analogy is flawed, another analogy could be if sandwiches were only sold with Heinz products, you could choose betweeen peanut butter, strawberry jam or sandwichspread, but if you wanted Calve peanut butter, you would still need to pay for a jar of Heinz peanut butter too.




From hyakugei at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 00:04:10 2005
From: hyakugei at gmail.com (Jos)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 21:04:10 -0700
Subject: Thread's, async_chat and asyncore
In-Reply-To: <op.sx4bswv3mko9fo@pcx194.rd.bbc.co.uk>
References: <1128392080.485892.287770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<op.sx4bswv3mko9fo@pcx194.rd.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1128571450.447055.291940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I will take a look at it, thanks!
jos



From ccurvey at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 18:52:48 2005
From: ccurvey at gmail.com (Chris Curvey)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 15:52:48 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130107968.597010.71290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I usually start by asking how you make variables "private" within
classes.  That seems to tell me if they understand something about the
design of the language and it's a quick filter to tell if they know
something about the syntax.

The other question that I use is asking about 3rd party libraries that
they have found useful.  That can lead into some good questions about
what they like about those libraries and what they dislike.  That
question helps me understand whether they've thought at all about how
to design in Python.

If I can't get a good conversation started with either of those, I'll
ask what they don't like about Python, to see if they've actually used
it to solve a real problem, or if they've just read the tutorial.

As always, the best interview questions are open-ended, and give the
candidate some room to really show their stuff (or give them enough
rope to hang themselves).



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 11:26:57 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 17:26:57 +0200
Subject: Distributing programs
References: <dhotob$fe0$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dhou83$gql$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jason wrote:

> A non-python programming friend of mine has said that any programs made
> with Python must be distributed with, or an alternative link, to the source of
> the program.
>
> Is this true?

no.

the license is here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/Copyright.html

   "Python is absolutely free, even for commercial use (including
    resale). There is no GNU-like "copyleft" restriction."

</F>





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 27 22:13:59 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:13:59 GMT
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
References: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86vezk1khe.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130335059.740804.271010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130345595.405529.259110@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130441958.930684.319340@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <436188cf.1142855679@news.oz.net>

On 27 Oct 2005 12:39:18 -0700, "EP" <eric.pederson at gmail.com> wrote:

>How does Python execute something like the following
>
>oldPhrase="My dog has fleas on his knees"
>newPhrase=oldPhrase.replace("fleas",
>"wrinkles").replace("knees","face")
>
>Does it do two iterations of the replace method on the initial and then
>an intermediate string (my guess) -- or does it compile to something
>more efficient (I doubt it, unless it's Christmas in Pythonville... but
>I thought I'd query)
>
Here's a way to get an answer in one form:

 >>> def foo(): # for easy disassembly
 ...    oldPhrase="My dog has fleas on his knees"
 ...    newPhrase=oldPhrase.replace("fleas",
 ...    "wrinkles").replace("knees","face")
 ...
 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(foo)
   2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('My dog has fleas on his knees')
               3 STORE_FAST               1 (oldPhrase)

   3           6 LOAD_FAST                1 (oldPhrase)
               9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (replace)
              12 LOAD_CONST               2 ('fleas')

   4          15 LOAD_CONST               3 ('wrinkles')
              18 CALL_FUNCTION            2
              21 LOAD_ATTR                1 (replace)
              24 LOAD_CONST               4 ('knees')
              27 LOAD_CONST               5 ('face')
              30 CALL_FUNCTION            2
              33 STORE_FAST               0 (newPhrase)
              36 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              39 RETURN_VALUE

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From xah at xahlee.org  Mon Oct 17 03:59:23 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 00:59:23 -0700
Subject: bizarro world (was Re: Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
	(reprise))
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1935.1129097121.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129071507.829655.252340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dii8hv$rsp$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1935.1129097121.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129535963.282518.295280@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Bryan wrote:
> mr. xah... would you be willing to give a lecture at pycon 2006?  i'm sure you
> would draw a huge crowd and a lot of people would like to meet you in person...
>
> thanks.

I'd be delight to.

My requirements are: 1 cup of fat-free milk, free, and free pizza.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Fri Oct 28 05:01:39 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno at modulix)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:01:39 +0200
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
In-Reply-To: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4361e8f5$0$32420$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

dcrespo wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> How can I replace all None values with the string 'Null' in a
> dictionary?
> 
> For example:
> convert this:
> a = {'item1': 45, 'item2': None}
> 
> into this:
> a = {'item1': 45, 'item2': 'Null'}
> 

I think it would be time for you to read the Fine Manual...

for key in a:
  if a[key] is None:
    a[key] = 'Null'


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 10:01:29 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:01:29 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqjic$qb7$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<djqjrt$6dh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqkc0$qk2$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <djqmjq$7ff$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> David Schwartz wrote:

>>     Burger King won't let you sell Whoppers or buy their burger
>> patties wholesale no matter what you want to call your store unless
>> you take the whole franchise deal. It's an all-or-nothing package.
>> With very few limits, companies do get to choose how their products
>> are branded, marketed, and sold.

> Yes, and that's not what Microsoft has ever done. There have always
> been lots of shops selling Microsoft merchandise without being a
> Microsoft franchise in the sense Burger King shops are.

    Right, Microsoft imposed a lesser restriction. They allowed you to sell 
competing products, but charged you a fee.

> That's why I still say your comparison is a bad one.

    It shows that Microsoft's purportedly draconian restrictions are much 
less than restrictions that people don't even bat an eye at.

    DS




From jena at vlakosim.com  Sun Oct  9 07:56:29 2005
From: jena at vlakosim.com (jena)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:56:29 +0200
Subject: assigning in nested functions
Message-ID: <4349056D.1060805@vlakosim.com>

Hi
I have code

# BEGIN CODE
def test():
  def x():
    print a
    a=2 # ***
 
  a=1
  x()
  print a

test()
# END CODE

This code fails (on statement print a in def x), if I omit line marked 
***, it works (it prints 1\n1\n). It look like when I assign variable in 
nested function, I cannot access variable in container function.
I need to assign variable in container function, is any way to do this?

Thanks a lot for your help
Jena


From gregm at taming-tech.com  Fri Oct 28 20:29:46 2005
From: gregm at taming-tech.com (GregM)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 17:29:46 -0700
Subject: Oh what a twisted thread we weave....
Message-ID: <1130545786.627404.102940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi

First off I'm not using anything from Twisted. I just liked the subject
line :)

The folks of this list have been most helpful before and I'm hoping
that you'll take pity on a the dazed and confused. I've read stuff on
this group and various website and book until my head is spinning...

Here is a brief summary of what I'm trying to do and an example below.
I have the code below in a single threaded version and use it to test a
list of roughly 6000 urls ensure that they "work". If they fail I track
the kind of failures and then generate a report. Currently it take
about 7 - 9 hours to run through the entire list. I basically create a
list from a file containing a  list of URLS and then iterate over the
list and check each page as I go through the list. I get all sort of
flack because it takes so long so I thought I could speed it up by
using a Queue and X number of threads. Seems easier said then done.

However in my test below I can't even get it to catch a single error in
my if statement in the Run() function. I'm stumped as to why. Any help
would be Greatly appreciated. and if so inclined pointers on how to
limit the number of threads of a give number of threads.

Thank you in advance! I really do appreciate it

here is what I have so far... Yes there are somethings that are unused
from previous test. Oh and to give proper credit this is based on some
code from  http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/OSCON2000/SCRIPT2.HTM

import threading, Queue
from time import sleep, time
import urllib2
import formatter
import string
#toscan = Queue.Queue
#scanned = Queue.Queue
#workQueue = Queue.Queue()


MAX_THREADS = 10

timeout = 90			# sets timeout for urllib2.urlopen()
failedlinks = []		# list for failed urls
zeromatch = []			# list for 0 result searches
t = 0 					# used to store starting time for getting a page.
pagetime = 0			# time it took to load page
slowestpage = 0			# slowest page time
fastestpage = 10 		# fastest page time
cumulative = 0			# total time to load all pages (used to calc. avg)
ST_zeroMatch = 'You found 0 products'
ST_zeroMatch2 = 'There are no products matching your selection'

class Retriever(threading.Thread):
	def __init__(self, URL):
		self.done = 0
		self.URL = URL
		self.urlObj = ''
		self.ST_zeroMatch = ST_zeroMatch
		print '__init__:self.URL', self.URL
		threading.Thread.__init__(self)

	def run(self):
		print 'In run()'
		print "Retrieving:", self.URL
		#self.page = urllib.urlopen(self.URL)
		#self.body = self.page.read()
		#self.page.close()
		self.t = time()
		self.urlObj = urllib2.urlopen(self.URL)
		self.pagetime = time() - t
		self.webpg = self.urlObj.read()
		print 'Retriever.run: before if'
		print 'matching', self.ST_zeroMatch
		print ST_zeroMatch
# why does this always drop through even though the If should be true.
		if (ST_zeroMatch or ST_zeroMatch2) in self.webpg:
			# I don't think I want to use self.zeromatch, do I?
			print '** Found zeromatch'
			zeromatch.append(url)
		#self.parse()
		print 'Retriever.run: past if'
		print 'exiting run()'
		self.done = 1

# the last 2 Shop.Com Urls should trigger the zeromatch condition
sites = ['http://www.foo.com/',
    'http://www.shop.com',
    'http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-~zzsome+thing',
    'http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-~xyzzy'
    #'http://www.yahoo.com/ThisPageDoesntExist'
    ]

threadList = []
URLs = []
workQueue = Queue.Queue()

for item in sites:
    workQueue.put(item)

print workQueue
print
print 'b4 test in sites'

for test in sites:
    retriever = Retriever(test)
    retriever.start()
    threadList.append(retriever)

print 'threadList:'
print threadList
print 'past for test in sites:'

while threading.activeCount()>1:
	print'Zzz...'
	sleep(1)

print 'entering retriever for loop'
for retriever in threadList:
    #URLs.extend(retriever.run())
	retriever.run()

print 'zeromatch:', zeromatch
# even though there are two URLs that that should be here nothing ever
gets appeneded to the list.



From mtammerman at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 18:43:38 2005
From: mtammerman at gmail.com (Mike Tammerman)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 15:43:38 -0700
Subject: Excel library with unicode support
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1507.1128506957.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128463115.969232.146590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1507.1128506957.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128552218.912540.85680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, a lot.

It helped me so much.

Mike



From http  Fri Oct  7 03:35:16 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 00:35:16 -0700
Subject: Can't extend function type
Message-ID: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Oh well.  I had wanted to be able to define two functions f and g, and
have f*g be the composition of f and g.

    >>> func_type = type(lambda: None)
    >>> class composable_function(func_type):
    ...   def __mult__(f,g):
    ...     def c(*args, **kw):
    ...       return f(g(*args, **kw))
    ...     return c
    ...
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
        type 'function' is not an acceptable base type
    >>>

Seems like a wart to me.


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Thu Oct 20 16:43:23 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:43:23 -0600
Subject: get a copy of a string leaving original intact
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F6A@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

I'm having trouble with something that seems like it should be simple.

I need to copy a file, say "abc-1.tif" to another directory, but if it's
in there already, I need to transfer it named "abc-2.tif" but I'm going
about it all wrong.

Here's what doesn't work: (I'll add the copy stuff from shutil after
figuring out the basic string manipulation.)


import os

source = r"C:\Source"
target = r"P:\Target"

files = os.listdir(source)

for f in files:
    if os.path.isfile(target + "\\" + f):      # if it already exists
        print f + " exists"
        s = f                                  # i'd like a copy to
alter
        s = s.replace("-1", "-2")
        print "Altered it to be " + s
        print source + "\\" + s, target + "\\" + s
    else:
        print f + " IS NOT THERE YET"               
        print source + "\\" + f, target + "\\" + f  # use the original



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Mon Oct 17 18:47:03 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:47:03 +0200
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Robin Becker a ?crit :
> Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need to 
> create another class with the property changed?

Do you mean attributes or properties ?


From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Tue Oct  4 09:04:26 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:04:26 -0500
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128408211.276386.94100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128408211.276386.94100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510040804.27109.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Tuesday 04 October 2005 01:43, Svennglenn wrote:
> Have the program check for a file hidden somewhere on the computer.
> For instance, if the file dummyfile.dll doesn't exist in the
> windows/system32 folder the program just doesn't start. And when you
> install the program on her computer just add this file. And if anyone
> copies the program the can't run it on any other computer because
> they doesn't know the name of the file that's needed to start the
> program.
>
> How about that?

But wouldn't the file name need to be stored in the program somewhere? 
as a string which can be discovered using relatively trivial processes?

That makes any protection difficult.

Being totally not a cryptographic expert... the solution I'd see would 
be an installer that encrypts the Python package (zip file?) with some 
hardware-specific key, and then decrypts it before running it (runner 
would need to be in C or something). Or maybe just embeds in itself a 
crypographic signature using a hardware key that is verified before the 
program can run.

-Michael


From ajay at infogridpacific.com  Wed Oct  5 09:11:55 2005
From: ajay at infogridpacific.com (Ajay Abhyankar)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:41:55 +0530
Subject: 10060, Operation timed out Error
Message-ID: <4343D11B.3060102@infogridpacific.com>

Hi,
I am trying to upload zip files using ftplib module. The server has 
Vsftpd 2.0.3 installed on it.
I was able to succesfully upload files using ftplib and Vsftpd on the 
server locally connected.
Now, I want to transfer files to remote server using the same script.

I am getting the following error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#32>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    ftp.retrlines('LIST')
  File "C:\Python23\lib\ftplib.py", line 396, in retrlines
    conn = self.transfercmd(cmd)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
  File "C:\Python23\lib\ftplib.py", line 324, in ntransfercmd
    conn.connect(sa)
  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
error: (10060, 'Operation timed out')

If I transfer the files without using python script from the prompt, the 
file is successfully transfered.
Please help me to understand whether the problem is with the script, 
ftplib or Vsftpd.

Thanks in advance.
Ajay



From http  Fri Oct  7 09:37:40 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 06:37:40 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128687719.783871.50090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x7jcpzeyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128689163.357942.107850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3bndbg7v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at web.de> writes:
> > Erlang?
> 
> Guess what, worked with that, too :) And let me assure you - it does
> have pretty much runtime type error issues. It's interpreted.

Yes, it makes no attempt at being statically typed.  It's like Python
that way, AFAIK.

> Easy cases are easy... The thing is: I'm all for typechecking as long
> as it doesn't burden me. In FP it doesn't, as the expressional power is
> way better. But in JAVA, it does. And just doing wishful-thinking about
> that Python should do better that won't help... :)

How about Lisp?  It seems to do some good there, without getting in
the way.


From mtebeka at qualcomm.com  Sun Oct 16 07:59:04 2005
From: mtebeka at qualcomm.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:59:04 +0200
Subject: Capturing audio from a microphone on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <435053dd$0$15050$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
References: <435053dd$0$15050$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Message-ID: <20051016115904.GG3760@qualcomm.com>

Hello Michael,

> So my question this: does anyone know of a library or simple approach
> to capturing audio (any quality :) from a microphone on Mac OS X ?
> Specifically something that works with Mac OS X 10.3, with python 2.3 .
You can use portaudio (http://www.portaudio.com/) and SWIG
(http://www.swig.org) it.

> Thanks in advance to anyone who replies,
You're welcome.

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <mtebeka at qualcomm.com>
http://tebeka.bizhat.com
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys
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From uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com  Wed Oct 26 03:27:58 2005
From: uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com (uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:27:58 -0700
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <Luidnc2OvoJ9u8PeRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Luidnc2OvoJ9u8PeRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130311678.936969.302020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

yes of course the traceback could be helpfull so here it is...

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "App1.py", line 6, in ?
  File "Frame1.pyc", line 16, in ?
  File "brain.pyc", line 4, in ?
  File "xml\dom\ext\reader\__init__.pyc", line 20, in ?
LookupError: unknown encoding: utf-8


-Martin.



From http  Thu Oct 13 11:24:41 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 08:24:41 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Scott David Daniels <scott.daniels at acm.org> writes:
> Current speeds are due to deep pipelines, and a conditional in the
> INCREF code would blow a pipeline.

I think most of the time, branch prediction will prevent the cache
flush.  Anyway, with consed integers, there's still going to be a
conditional or even a dispatch on the tag field.  Finally, when you
know you're dealing with small integers, you don't need to even check
the tags.  Some implementations use the low order bits as tags with a
tag==0 meaning an integer.  That means if you have two tagged integers,
you can add and subtract them without having to twiddle the tags.

The alternative (tag==1 means integer) means you don't have to mask
off the tag bits to dereference pointers, and you can still add a
constant to a tagged int by simply adjusting the constant
appropriately.  E.g., with one tag bit, to increment you'd add 2 to
the tagged int.


From sathyaish at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 21:36:06 2005
From: sathyaish at gmail.com (Sathyaish)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 18:36:06 -0700
Subject: How is wxWindows related to Python?
Message-ID: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

My question will sound daft to the good old craftsmen, but they will
excuse my nescience on the subject. I come new to the Pythonic world
from the land of .NET languages, VB6 and some familiarity in C and C++.

I just read about wxWindows last night. From my understanding, it is a
GUI framework like MFC that lets you create UI apps with ease calling a
standard set of API accross multiple platforms (unlike MFC) and if the
Windows port is complementary to MFC in that it shields you from
calling the Win32 API directly.

However, I do not understand its correlation with Python. The
documentation page says, "wxWindows 2.4.2: A portable C++ and Python
GUI toolkit." So, my question is, "How is wxWindows related to Python?"



From pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 09:51:36 2005
From: pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com (pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 06:51:36 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <87y84dix2r.fsf@ieee.org>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87y84dix2r.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1130507496.591640.36260@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

First of all, this isn't a text file, it is a binary file. Secondly,
substrings can overlap. In the sequence 0010010 the substring 0010
occurs twice.

/David



From kylotan at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 04:58:50 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 01:58:50 -0700
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
In-Reply-To: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129712330.214199.88480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

S?b wrote:
> 1) I have a list of connexion between some computers. This list has
> this format :

It looks like you want graph theory.

> Ip A               Date             Ip B
> ...                ...              ...
> 192.168.0.1        19.10.2005       192.168.0.2
> 192.168.0.3        19.10.2005       192.168.0.1
> 192.168.0.4        19.10.2005       192.168.0.6

That looks like a list of edges between graph nodes, you see. Each node
corresponds to an address and each edge is a connection between two
nodes - ip addresses, in your case.

> 2) I want to find if there are unknown sequences of connexions in my
> data and if these sequences are repeated along the file :
>
> For example :
>
> Computer A connects to Computer B then
> Computer B connects to Computer C then
> Computer C connects to Computer A

That looks like finding a path between Node A and Node C. This is a
common application of graph theory, and especially when finding routes
(eg. for train journeys, or for AI characters in computer games).

> 3) Then, the software gives the sequences it has found and how many
> times they appear...

You can find all the routes between 1 node and others by using
depth-first search (or indeed, any other simple graph search
algorithm). Basically, this says that, for any node, examine all the
nodes it leads to. Then examine those nodes... repeat until you run out
of nodes or find where you're looking for. The only complication is
remembering the route you took.

> I hope this is clear, point 2) is where I have my main problem. Has
> someone an idea where to start and if there's already something coded ?

I found a couple of Python graph libraries on Google but I can't vouch
for their quality. However, writing your own simple graph traversal
algorithm should be quite trivial. I would start by populating a
dictionary where the keys are instances of address A and the values are
lists of address B values for address A. Add each link again with
address B as the key and address A as the value if you need to
represent bidirectional connections. Then you can perform search on
that as required. The only slight complication is avoiding infinite
loops - I might use a dictionary of address->boolean values here and
check off each address as the algorithm progresses.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 10 20:07:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:07:59 -0400
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<861x2t2m7s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<donn-32A85B.15462910102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <86fyr829wg.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
> In article <861x2t2m7s.fsf at bhuda.mired.org>, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> 
> wrote:
>
>> Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
>> > I agree that there are many shades of grey here, but there's also a
>> > real black that's sharply distinct and easy to find -- real native
>> > code binaries are not interpreted.
>> 
>> Except when they are. Many machines are microcoded, which means your
>> "real native code binary" is interpreted by a microcode program stored
>> in the control store. Most machines don't have a writeable control
>> store (WCS), so you generally can't change the interpreter, but that's
>> not always true. In the simple case, a WCS lets the vendor fix
>> "hardware" bugs by providing a new version of the microcode. In the
>> extreme cases, you get OS's in which the control store is part of the
>> process state, so different processes can have radically different
>> formats for their "native code binaries".
>> 
>> Then there's the Nanodata QM-1, whose microcode was interpreted by
>> "nanocode".
>
> Fine -- given a Python Chip computer, Python programs are
> native code.  It can use microcode, if that helps.

Historical evidence is that general purpose CPUs will (eventually)
outperform custom Python chip.

> The VAX/11 microcode was just a software extension of the
> CPU hardware, implementing some extra instructions, the way
> I remember it.  I don't recall that it was of any more than
> academic interest to anyone using the computer - though it
> may have been software in a sense, it was on the hardware
> side of the wall.

It was of more than academic interest to people interested in
performance. As you moved up and down the VAX line, instructions
migrated into/out of microcode, and the relative performance of the
instructions changed. In particular, the magic "evaluate a polynomial"
instruction - which made doing multi-dimensional array indexing
trivial - was slower or faster than the obvious sequence of simple
instructions for doing the same depending on whether or not that
instruction was interpreted.

>From (roughly) the same era, the 370 line was all microcoded. The
machines in the line had *radically* different underlying
architectures. Estimates were that if you could write to the native
hardware, you'd pick up about 10% in performance - but your code
wouldn't port to any other machine 370 in the 370 line.

Just to be strange, some of the 370s had control stores in main
memory. Meaning a stray pointer could trash your instruction set.

> On the software side of the wall, if your program can go over the
> wall by itself, then it's native.

And what does "by itself" mean? If it requires that you load the WCS,
does that mean it's interpreted? What if what it wants in the WCS is
required to run the OS? What if what it wants in the WCS isn't
required to run the OS, but is always loaded on the system the author
runs on, or is available as an extension module from the vendor, or
...

Software is so squishy.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 16 18:18:45 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:18:45 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86u0fh14xm.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     I don't really know why and I don't particularly care. I think it has a 
> lot to do with support costs and may also have to do with the type of deals 
> Microsoft offers.

It has nothing to do with support costs. It has everything to do with
the types of deals that MS offers. In particular, MS won't (wouldn't)
sell a company Windows software at OEM prices unless they payed for a
copy of Windows for *every* computer they sold.

>     The point is, they do. And there's nothing unusual, immoral, or 
> problemmatic about it.

If MS weren't effectively a monopoly, you'd be right. That's not the
case. A computer OEM can't hope to survive without offering
Windows. They can't hope to survive if they are paying retail for
Windows while their competition is paying OEM prices. MS was using
their market dominance to coerce consumers who into paying for their
software when they didn't want it.

The latter is problemmatic, unusual and definitely immoral. More to
the point, it's illegal. It's also typical of MS marketing ever since
IBM created a market for MS to dominate.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From stefan.rank at ofai.at  Wed Oct 12 04:30:15 2005
From: stefan.rank at ofai.at (Stefan Rank)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:30:15 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <3r3u8kFhhsqmU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r3u8kFhhsqmU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <434CC997.5080804@ofai.at>

on 12.10.2005 10:02 Diez B. Roggisch said the following:
> Rune Strand wrote:
> 
>>Currently I have this in my scripts:
>>__filename__ = __file__.replace('\\', '/').rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
> 
> This is neither platform independent nor less "overhead". This is:
> 
> import os
> __filname__ = os.path.split(__file__)[-1]
> 

I would say that::

   import os
   filename = os.path.basename(__file__)

is even more explicit.

And with one of the several existing 'path' modules it would be::

   from path import path
   filename = path(__file__).basename


I am sorry if I missed this on this list,
but was there a decision on the idea of including an object-oriented
path class in the standard library?

cheers,
stefan



From monuindia at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 03:06:39 2005
From: monuindia at gmail.com (Monu Agrawal)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 00:06:39 -0700
Subject: Statement orders
Message-ID: <1128236799.839645.101270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi I am making a gui based tool. When user preses a perticular button I
am running a heavy command, before this I want to say user to wait with
a image showing infront of her.
My code is like:
	def loadData(self):
		top=Toplevel(self.parent)
		top.focus_set()
		self.parent.wm_title("Loading Data...")

		os.system('a heavy command')
		os.system('another heavy command)
		top.destroy()

Now when I apply it, it first runs the os.system commands then it shows
the top level.
I tried with putting sleep just before os.system() it didn't help.
Is some statement reordering going on, or I am missing something?



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 11:10:40 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 08:10:40 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <QZOdnfxFcvOeWMXeRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
	<1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<8MudnZpGf80SLMjeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129727418.181264.161000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129727900.662174.275420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<QZOdnfxFcvOeWMXeRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129993840.085890.284270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> One suggestion about the above: "description" is actually the exception
> instance (the object), not just the description.

Yes. In fact, it's a tuple. Maybe, I'll change it for just printing the
second item of it.

Thanks a lot.



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 20:58:27 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:58:27 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ioitl1dbplmtvlagd19ho3i4coni0g9kul@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djmkbj$og4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:ioitl1dbplmtvlagd19ho3i4coni0g9kul at 4ax.com...

> Of course he cares. He is a shill. He licks that hand that feeds him.

    In an indirect sense. The company I work for does get a lot of sales 
because we are "anyone but Microsoft". So we actually profit from people's 
dislike of Microsoft's products. FWIW, I do think most Microsoft products 
are utter crap with one exception -- in a sufficiently controlled situation, 
the product can be demonstrated to be able to do what most people think they 
want it to do.

    I'm not sure whether or not the market really wants crap. It may be that 
Microsoft correctly read that the mass market for software is for crap 
software, just like the mass market for science television is for crap 
science television. Frankly, I hope not.

    It's kind of like how a PBS science special, largely free from market 
forces, is generally of fairly high quality. On the other hand, a network 
science special shaped largely by market forces, is likely to be about a 
person who has learned how to speak with cats or the dead.

    DS




From http  Sun Oct  2 21:33:54 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 18:33:54 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > What convention?  It just makes it possible to write code with some
> > specific invariants if there's a need to do so.
> 
> That you don't pass private variables to a function unless it's a builtin.

No, I don't see that as "convention", it's just something that you do
if you want to make sure that all the references are local or
builtins.  It's like saying that if you if you want to be sure that x
is always positive, then don't execute statements like "x = -3".  I
wouldn't call something like that a "convention".

In C, one can easily crash an application by derefencing a null
pointer, or break type safety by freeing something twice or setting an
array element with an out-of-range index.  In Python, those failures
are supposed to be impossible.  Not "inconvenient", but impossible.
We usually think of that as a good thing, not a symptom of bondage and
discipline.  But (not even bothering with private instance variables
or builtins), if I say

   def g():
     for i in (1,2,3,4,5):
       yield i
   x = g()

maybe I'd like to be sure that x never yields negative numbers.
CPython happens to have some features that stop me from guaranteeing
that invariant.  A CPython script that makes x yield negative 3 is
contorted but not impossible.  Whether the existence of those hooks is
a good thing or not, I don't see them as a fundamental characteristic
of Python.  Python without those hooks would still be Python.  And I
don't see why wanting to be able to guarantee that impossibility is
somehow more B&D than wanting to guarantee the impossibility of null
pointer dereferences.

> Except that, with Python as it exists today with a private keyword
> added, it's *still* everyone.  The only convention breaking the private
> keyword would allow the compiler to catch is a reference to
> foo.private. 

Well, it would be done at runtime by __getattr__ or the like.

> It wouldn't catch overriding things in __builtins__ or
> overriding builtins in a module, or things poking at the variable
> through __dict__, or - well, there are probably lots of things that
> need to be dealt with.

Yes, but I see all of those as implementation artifacts, not anything
fundamental.

> Preventing accidents is all "private" does - without fundamental
> changes to the implementation of the language. You have to catch every
> mechanism that can be used to find a reference to an attribute, like
> references to __dict__ and to the class variable.

The Python stdlib for a long time had a module called Bastion that
attempted to do exactly that, so you can't say that the desire is
un-Pythonic.  Bastion was only removed because implementation issues
kept it from working properly.  Those issues probably can't be
resolved in the 2.x series but as the language evolves, maybe
something can be done to bring it back.


From renting at astron.nl  Wed Oct 12 09:11:54 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:11:54 +0200
Subject: Converting C++ array into Python
Message-ID: <s34d27ce.062@server7.nfra.nl>

try using SWIG?
You give very little information about how you are trying to accomplish this. From your mention of C++ you seem to mean a vector, not an array, I suggest you read the documentation of SWIG, and maybe someone can help you if you give a clear example of what you are trying to accomplish, how, and why it fails.

Adriaan Renting.  
  
>>>"Deshdeep, Singh (IE10)" <Deshdeep.Singh at honeywell.com> 10/04/05 7:33 am >>> 

 I am extending C++ application with python. I am not able to convert a C++ array in Python.    
     
 If anyone has the experience of the below :-   
  1)            How to handle the C++ array in the Python code and how to input that from the script ?   
     
 Awaiting for the solution   
     
 Regards   
 DD   
     


From bonono at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 01:07:43 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 22:07:43 -0700
Subject: Generic utility class for passing data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2696.1130561745.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1u-dnSkSzdnsfP_enZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>
	<1h55r01.ovyr63zw37r6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130560720.166693.239460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2696.1130561745.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130562463.789407.67980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

ok, so that is simply a wrapper of a dict and has nothing to do with
parameter passing and it can be used anyway within the receiving
function(or basically anyway I want to say x.key rather than x[key]).

def f(**kwargs):
  x = Bunch(kwargs)
  x.some_key_as_attribute = something




Robert Kern wrote:
> bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> > just curious, since python don't care what object is being passing
> > around and the receiving function has to 'decode' it(be it tuple or
> > dict or whatever). What is the advantage of dummy class ?
>
> The convenience of the attribute notation.
>
> For the record, my favorite variation is as follows:
>
> class Bunch(dict):
>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>         dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwds)
>         self.__dict__ = self
>
> --
> Robert Kern
> rkern at ucsd.edu
>
> "In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
>  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
>   -- Richard Harter



From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Wed Oct 19 03:03:41 2005
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:03:41 +0200
Subject: Tkinter or Python issue?
References: <98i5f.3686$vS1.1306@dukeread03>
Message-ID: <opsyvskfiorqur0o@eb.pragmadev>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:30:33 -0400, Ron Provost <ronpro at cox.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm using python 2.4.2 on Win XP Pro.  I'm trying to understand a behavior
> I'm seeing in some Tkinter code I have.  I've reduced my question to a small
> piece of code:
>
>
> #####BEGIN CODE
> #################
> import Tkinter as Tk
> import tkFont
>
> sampleText = """Here is a test string.  This is more text
> Here is a second line of text.  How much
> more can I type.  I can't think of anything else to type.
> """
>
> root = Tk.Tk( )
> t = Tk.Text( root )
> t.pack( )
>
> t.insert( Tk.END, sampleText )
>
> t.tag_config( 'AB', font=tkFont.Font( family='ariel', size=24,
> weight=tkFont.BOLD ) )
> t.tag_config( 'TBU', font=tkFont.Font( family='times', size=10,
> weight=tkFont.BOLD, underline=1 ) )

Here is what I think is happening:
- The first tag_config creates a font using tkFont.Font. At tcl level, this font is not known as an object as in Python, but just as a font name, which is a string. This name happens to be built using the internal identifier for the Python object.
- Once this tag_config is over, no Python variable references your tkFont.Font instance anymore. It is is fact still known at tcl level (via the font name), but Python doesn't know that. So the reference counter for your tkFont.Font instance falls to 0, and the object is discarded.
- The second tag_config seems to create a new font using tkFont.Font. Unfortunately, since the previous font has been discarded, the space occupied by this font is reused for the new font. So the new font happens to have the same internal identifier as the font object created by the first tkFont.Font. So its name is in fact the same as your previous font, and is registered as such at tcl level. So in fact, you didn't create a new font at tcl level, but modified the previous one.

All this actually happens by accident. If you add something allocating some memory between the two tag_config, you'll certainly see your code working. It works when I run it myself...

[snip]
> f1 = font=tkFont.Font( family='ariel', size=24, weight=tkFont.BOLD )
> f2 = font=tkFont.Font( family='times', size=10, weight=tkFont.BOLD,
> underline=1 )
> t.tag_config( 'AB', font=f1 )
> t.tag_config( 'TBU', font=f2 )

You should now see why it works here: your first tkFont.Font is remembered at Python level in a variable. So it is not discarded once the tag_config is over. So the second tkFont.Font is not allocated at the same location, so it doesn't have the same id, and it doesn't have the same name at tcl level. This is the general solution to the problem: keep your fonts in Python variables, so they won't be discarded and their names will never be re-used. You could have written:

f1 = font=tkFont.Font( family='ariel', size=24, weight=tkFont.BOLD )
t.tag_config( 'AB', font=f1 )
f2 = font=tkFont.Font( family='times', size=10, weight=tkFont.BOLD, underline=1 )
t.tag_config( 'TBU', font=f2 )

This should still work. The order is not important; it's just the fact that your fonts are actually known at Python level which prevents Tkinter to reuse their name.

BTW, this is a variant of a well known problem biting newbies regularly, documented here:
http://tkinter.unpythonic.net/wiki/Images

It's basically the same problem for images: it does not suffice to reference an image at tcl level; it must also be referenced at Python level or it will be discarded by Python and you won't be able to use it in your widgets.

HTH
-- 
python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in 'U(17zX(%,5.zmz5(17;8(%,5.Z65\'*9--56l7+-'])"


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 04:54:42 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:54:42 +0200
Subject: Question on class member in python
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1129613041.473285.84800@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4mjg9.1n5khr7pjy1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Thanks for your help, maybe I should learn how to turn an attibute into
> a property first.

Easy -- in your class's body, just code:

  def getFoo(self): ...
  def setFoo(self, value): ...
  def delFoo(self): ...
  foo = property(getFoo, setFoo, delFoo, 'this is the foo')


Note that if you want subclasses to be able to customize behavior of foo
accesses by simple method overrides, you need to program some "hooks"
(an extra level of indirection, if you will).

Alex


From pd at traxon.com  Tue Oct 25 03:30:16 2005
From: pd at traxon.com (Paul Dale)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:30:16 +0200
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1130170339.476122.61080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<435d04b8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130170339.476122.61080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435DDF08.6020108@traxon.com>


You might want to try python expect which gives you a very simple and 
scriptable interface to a process.

http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/

I've been using it on windows to automate a few things.

Cheers,

Paul

jas wrote:

>Kent,
>  Yes, your example does work.  So did os.popen...however, the problem
>is specific to "cmd.exe".
>   Have you tried that yet?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Kent Johnson wrote:
>  
>
>>jas wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Ok, I tried this...
>>>
>>>C:\>python
>>>Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
>>>on win32
>>>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>import subprocess as sp
>>>>>>p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
>>>operable program or batch file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
>>>store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
>>>an error with result.
>>>      
>>>
>>This works for me:
>>import subprocess as sp
>>p = sp.Popen("ipconfig", stdout=sp.PIPE)
>>result = p.communicate()[0]
>>print result
>>
>>Kent
>>    
>>
>
>  
>


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 01:00:46 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:00:46 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <8b09l1tgavuiu3hmatva34624lvsjn6mtl@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:44:55 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>
>    It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's 
>obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with 
>Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or fraud.

I think that what they did borders on force/fraud.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Sun Oct 16 03:06:21 2005
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:06:21 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl3uvc.481.tim@vegeta.saiyix>

David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new
> car without an engine.

Even if you want to equate a car's engine with a computer's OS,
a better indicator would be to ask the car salesman if, when you
take the car home, are you legally prevented from being able to
remove the engine, or replace/upgrade parts?

Tim


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Mon Oct 10 06:34:59 2005
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:34:59 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87oe5xfyng.fsf@qrnik.zagroda>

Followup-To: comp.lang.scheme

"Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> writes:

> Since this is frequently used, Python provides a somewhat shorter
> syntax for it, by specifying the column used as the ordering ?key?.
[...]
> Because Python's implementation is not very refined , this specialized
> syntax is actually much speedier than the general form ?lambda x, y:
> cmp(x[1],y[1])?. It is a burden on the programer to always use the
> ?key? syntax idiosyncrasy if he is sorting a large matrix.

It's not only clearer for a human, but also faster in all good
implementations of all languages which support that, except when the
ordering function is very simple. It's called Schwartzian transform
and I wish more language designers and programmers knew about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwartzian_transform

I urge future SRFI authors to include it. The withdrawn SRFI-32 for
sorting didn't do that, and I can't find any other SRFI which deals
with sorting.

-- 
   __("<         Marcin Kowalczyk
   \__/       qrczak at knm.org.pl
    ^^     http://qrnik.knm.org.pl/~qrczak/


From david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de  Sun Oct  2 14:39:57 2005
From: david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de (David Murmann)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:39:57 +0200
Subject: Statement orders
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1338.1128238804.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128236799.839645.101270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1338.1128238804.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3qanooFdu6okU1@news.dfncis.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Monu Agrawal wrote:
> 
>> Hi I am making a gui based tool. When user preses a perticular button I
>> am running a heavy command, before this I want to say user to wait with
>> a image showing infront of her.
>>
>> My code is like:
>>
>> def loadData(self):
>>    top=Toplevel(self.parent)
>>    top.focus_set()
>>    self.parent.wm_title("Loading Data...")
> 
> +    top.update() # flush the event queue
> 
>>    os.system('a heavy command')
>>    os.system('another heavy command)
>>    top.destroy()
> 
> </F>

I had a very similar problem and adding an update call solved it, but
in some tk documentation i read that one should be careful with adding
update calls to callbacks and prefer update_idletasks. in my case the
update method is even called one time before the mainloop is entered,
yet everything seems to work fine, so exactly when is it dangerous to
call update? (or is it dangerous at all?)

David.


From albalmer at att.net  Mon Oct 17 12:37:35 2005
From: albalmer at att.net (Alan Balmer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:37:35 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hok7l196igguitu0j35v0vacff4fklu3bb@4ax.com>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:31:33 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

>On 14 Oct 2005 19:01:42 -0700, "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote or
>quoted :
>
>>
>>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
>
>They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are evil, not
>because they have a large market share.

You've been around long enough to learn to recognize this poster and
ignore him.
-- 
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis at att.net


From xyphoid at mac.com  Thu Oct 20 23:49:29 2005
From: xyphoid at mac.com (dt)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:49:29 -0400
Subject: python and outlook
Message-ID: <dj9og9$uub$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Hi everyone,

Are there any links or sites on how to read outlook mail boxes or address book?



From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct  1 19:13:01 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:13:01 GMT
Subject: Class Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1KE%e.162132$p_1.55983@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Ivan Shevanski wrote:
> To continue with my previous problems, now I'm trying out classes.  But 
> I have a problem (which I bet is easily solveable) that I really don't 
> get.  The numerous tutorials I've looked at just confsed me.For intance:
> 
>>>> class Xyz:
> 
> ...     def y(self):
> ...             q = 2
> ...
> 
>>>> Xyz.y()
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unbound method y() must be called with Xyz instance as first 
> argument
> (got nothing instead)
> 
> 
> So. . .What do I have to do? I know this is an extremley noob question 
> but I think maybe if a person explained it to me I would finally get it =/
> 
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> -Ivan

Generally you don't use class's directly.  Think if them as templates 
for objects.  Then you can use that class (template) to create many objects.

To create an object just call the class and assign the result to a name.

xyz = Xyz()
xyz.y()


Also,

In your example 'q' is assigned the value 2, but as soon as the method 
'y' exits, it is lost.  To keep it around you want to assign it to self.y.

class Xyz(object):   #  create an class to create an object instance.
    def y(self)
       self.q = 2

xyz = Xyz()
xyz.y()
print xyz.q          #  prints 2



Cheers,
Ron













From joe at invalid.address  Mon Oct 24 17:21:48 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 16:21:48 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <m3irvma9w3.fsf@invalid.address>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

> "Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message 
> news:slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...
> 
> >>     Microsoft had something you need so badly that you could not go into
> >> business without it. So they demanded from you that you pay them what 
> >> their
> >> software was actually worth to you. That is not extortion. Everyone who
> >> sells something tries to get the maximum possible value for it.
> 
> > If a company wants to be paid for things it didn't deliver, then I think
> > that is extortion. Microsoft want te be paid a license on windows for
> > P.C.'s that were sold without windows.
> 
>     I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary. I can
> walk up to you and say "if you want me to mow your lawn, you must
> pay me $1 every time you smoke a cigarette". So long as you can say
> "no" and all that happens is that I don't mow your lawn (which I
> have no obligation to do anyway), it isn't extortion.

Extortion isn't the right word, of course. Nevertheless, being unable
to pay for a computer without also having to pay for an operating
system I don't want seems wrong to me.

Yes, I have alternatives, I generally buy components and put them
together myself. But why should I have to do that simply to avoid
paying  for an OS I'm not going to use?

The way this seems to work in practice strikes me as questionable at
best. Perhaps not illegal (IANAL so I don't know that) but certainly
one-sided. For one example, see

http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html

joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From magneticlemur at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 04:38:25 2005
From: magneticlemur at gmail.com (magneticlemur at gmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 01:38:25 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1129192705.632826.145210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Martin,
>I'm not at all mystified. The operating system was only released
>after the release of Python 2.4, there is no official compiler
>available yet to the general public, and I don't have the hardware
>to test such a release.
>It's fairly likely that Python 2.5 will not see official AMD64
>Windows binaries, either.

Fair enough.  I wasn't complaining about the lack of an official build.
Just surprised that I couldn't find reports on attempts at unofficial
builds.

Thanks for the tips re VS2005.

Regards,
Mike



From arve.knudsen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 14:02:18 2005
From: arve.knudsen at gmail.com (arve.knudsen at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:02:18 -0700
Subject: How to statically link Python with ncurses and readline?
Message-ID: <1130263338.291061.50210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi
I'm trying to build a Python package that I can use on different Linux
setups, for this purpose it would be nice to weld external dependencies
(libraries) into Python itself. So far I've succeeded in getting Tcl/Tk
statically linked in, with the help of Modules/Setup.local, but the
same procedure for ncurses and readline results in python being
dynamically linked with these two libraries?? That is, there are no
longer any readline.so or _curses.so in lib-dynload, but instead they
are added to Python's shared library dependencies. Any clue as to
what's going on here would be much appreciated.

Arve



From nephish at xit.net  Mon Oct  3 18:58:27 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 15:58:27 -0700
Subject: question about smtplib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1404.1128375138.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1404.1128375138.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128380307.865252.289510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

cool. so this line
server = smtplib.SMTP(localhost)
is when i connect ?

i had my syntax wrong anyway, i was using server.close()
instead of server.quit()

thanks much



From nephish at xit.net  Thu Oct 20 11:44:03 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:44:03 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
Message-ID: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hey there,
i have tried about every graphing package for python i can get to work
on my system. gnuplot, pychart, biggles, gdchart, etc.. (cant get
matplot to work)
so far, they all are working ok. I need to make an x y chart for some
data that comes in from sensors at different times durring the day. i
need it to show the value in the y and the time in the x .  no problem
so far. But what i cannot get to happen is to scale x (time of the
plot) with respect to time. in other words, i get a chart with the
times evenly spaced out along the x axis, with their respective values.
i need the chart to show gaps when there are gaps in the data. i need
it to be able to scale by time. if i have 3 values that come in within
a few minutes, i need them to be displayed close together, as compared
to another value that may come in, say, an hour later. Does this make
sence ?
one of you guys know a charting app that will do this ? or is there
some other way i could do it?

looking for suggestions,
sk



From eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  7 10:10:54 2005
From: eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl (Eric Nieuwland)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:10:54 +0200
Subject: Lambda evaluation
In-Reply-To: <1128634844.5816.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20051006202700.3914.338280121.divmod.quotient.24966@ohm>
	<1128634844.5816.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ad5a8504c848cf57ab220bb51b560005@xs4all.nl>

Joshua Ginsberg wrote:
> Try this one:
>
>>>> d = {}
>>>> for x in [1,2,3]:
> ...     d[x] = lambda *args: args[0]*x
> ...
>>>> d[1](3)

try it with:
	d[x] = (lambda x=x: (lambda *args: args[0]*x))()

the outer lambda fixes the value of x and produces the inner lambda 
with the fixed x value

--eric



From kylotan at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 08:53:40 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 05:53:40 -0700
Subject: Minimizing Connection reset by peer exceptions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2302.1129805480.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129777447.614500.232050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129804084.245716.242040@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2302.1129805480.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129812819.979759.188210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Steve Holden wrote:

> Do note, though, that if you aren't using some means (threading,
> forking, etc) of handling the connections asynchronously then your
> server will normally only queue a very limited number of connections
> (usually 5 at most).

The example given by the original poster seemed to be a client (using
connect_ex) rather than a server, so I think this would only be an
issue if the code was connecting to the same host repeatedly in quick
succession.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From P at draigBrady.com  Mon Oct 17 09:04:14 2005
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:04:14 +0100
Subject: Run process with timeout
In-Reply-To: <1129547240.998935.126970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129547240.998935.126970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4353A14E.8080409@draigBrady.com>

Natan wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have a python script under linux where I poll many hundreds of
> interfaces with mrtg every 5 minutes. Today I create some threads and
> use os.system(command) to run the process, but some of them just hang.
> I would like to terminate the process after 15 seconds if it doesn't
> finish, but os.system() doesn't have any timeout parameter.
> 
> Can anyone help me on what can I use to do this?

The new subprocess module has that functionality.
If your python version doesn't have that you
could try my unix specific version:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/libs/subProcess.py

P?draig.


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Oct 21 23:18:14 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:18:14 -0700
Subject: Module Importing Question
Message-ID: <200510212018.14822.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Hello All,

I have two modules that I use interchangably depending on the circumstances. 
These modules are imported by yet another module. I want the "importation" of 
these two alternatives to be mutually exclusive and dependent on the state of 
the "outermost module"

A diagram:

    mainApp ==imports==> aModule ==imports==> [oneMod | orTheOtherMod]

I want the importing of oneMod or orTheOtherMod to depend on the state of the 
mainApp. aModule is frozen, as are oneMod and orTheOtherMod. How might I 
accomplish this? I realize that this is a workaround for poorly thought out 
dependencies, but in my defense, have you seen just about anything else in 
this world (California Freeways, Tax Forms, A Flow-Chart of Human Metabolic 
Pathways, umm...whatever)?

James



-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 01:06:39 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 05:06:39 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<Xns96F0C6A35F486castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<11l3fig34u2ln27@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F111F3CBABcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

gordonb.8p4v4 at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote:

>>>>But HTML is not the problem!
>>> Right, it's what the HTML-interpreting engines might do that is
>>> the problem.
>>
>>You mean the same problem as for example using a very long header in 
>>your email to cause a buffer overflow? That is possible with plain 
>>ASCII, and has been done.
> 
> Before worrying about the possible bugs in the implementations,
> worry about security issues present in the *DESIGN*.

You mean like email travels like plain text over the Internet?

> Email ought
> to be usable to carry out a conversation *SAFELY* with some person out
> to get you.  Thus features like this are dangerous (in the *design*,
> not because they *might* hide a buffer-overflow exploit):
> 
> - Hyperlinks to anything *outside* the email in which the link
>   resides ("web bugs").

Same holds for a link in plain ASCII

> - Javascript.

Is not HTML

>>>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>>>>  
>>>>HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
>>>>colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.
> 
> The trouble is, it allows way too much dangerous stuff.

Same with attachements, shall we remove those too?

>>> All good stuff, but I don't like worrying about side effects when I
>>> read email.
>>
>>Then you should ask people to print it out, and use snail mail.
>>Exploits in email programs are not happening since HTML was added to
>>them. 
> 
> Yes, they are.

No, they are not. Buffer overruns with plain ASCII text have happened in
the past. Dangerous attachements have been sent before HTML was
available in email. 

> Why do you think people put "web bugs" in email?
> Because they work.

Same with attachements...

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 03:58:22 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:58:22 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlrlt2.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djkmfs$2r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <2n3133-19g.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djknoh$38o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <u55133-pgo.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
> news:2n3133-19g.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
> [DS, MS shill, said ..]
>>>     Essentially, Microsoft asked for exclusive arrangements. That is,
>>> arrangements wherein you could not sell competing products if you wished 
>>> to
>>> sell Microsoft products. That's not even remotely unusual.

>> It soitenly is, stanley. In case you hadn't noticed, the shops sell
>> more than one kind of washing powder.

>     Your argument is nonsensical. Because you can find one category of goods 
> that don't have the property I'm talking about it follows that the property 
> is unusual?!

Yep. You got it.

>     Operating systems are not like washing powder at all.

Really? In what way? I think you'll find that in germany at least,
Linux *IS* a brand of washing powder.

> Try to sell both 
> Big Macs and Whoppers in one store.

Looks good to me -  buy my hamburgers in a shop that sells lots of
different kinds in their freezer. I THINK you are trying to confuse 
hamburgers and restaurant chains, BTW.  Uh, uh.  Won't woik, stan.  I
know the difference.

> Heck, try to sell Craftsman tools 
> without being a Sears.

No idea what they are, but I imagine they are something you tie round
an ample midriff. Anyway, your example is the wrong way round - you
mean "try to buy a lawn mower from Sears without paying for the price
of a set of Craftsman tools". Or shumeshing.


> Microsoft gets to decide whether they sell their 
> operating systems software like washing powder or like burgers, not you.

Uh uh. No they don't.  Discriminatory trading practices are, uh,
illegal. You can't refuse to sell me something (or ratch up the price)
just because you don't like me, or even worse, because you want to
create a articial supply and demand situation.  That's called "fixing
the market".

>> Please stop this shillism.

>     If you could produce a strong argument, it might make sense to accuse me 
> of shilling.

I don't have to - shilling is as as shilling looks. If YOU want to
find out what MS did wrong, read the official and legal reports, dude.
The findings are findings of fact.

Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 27 23:38:30 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 04:38:30 +0100
Subject: Distutils patch for MS toolkit use
In-Reply-To: <djs2pt$knc$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <djs2pt$knc$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <43619D36.7070803@holdenweb.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> I've just realised that my 2.4.1 upgrade removed the patch I made to 
> distutils to use the Microsoft free toolchain.
> 
> unfortunately www.vrplumber.com appears to be down. Does anyone reading 
> this have the details?
> 
Never mind - turns out the site's inaccessibility was down to odd proxy 
behavior from the hotel I'm staying at. I managed to wget the necessary 
page in an ssh session from another host.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mail at joachim-bauch.de  Sun Oct 23 14:22:32 2005
From: mail at joachim-bauch.de (Joachim Bauch)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:22:32 +0200
Subject: ANN: PyLZMA 0.1.0 released
Message-ID: <435BD4E8.5070901@joachim-bauch.de>

Hi,

I'm pleased to announce the release of PyLZMA 0.1.0

PyLZMA is a platform independent python library that provides compression
using the LZMA algorithm by Igor Pavlov.  The LZMA algorithm usually performs
better than the zlib or bz2 algorithms.

Changes from 0.0.3:
* updated to 7-zip 4.23 and LZMA SDK 4.27
* fixed compilation problems with GCC 4 on Linux
* added matchfinder algorithms HashChain and Patricia in addition to the
   default BinTree
* support for multithreaded compression on Windows
* new usage.txt documentation
* added compatibility decompression methods for compressed data without the
   "end of stream" marker if the total uncompressed size is unknown

You can download the source and Windows installers of the new version from
the projects area of my homepage at http://www.joachim-bauch.de

The latest sourcecode can be found in the subversion repository at
http://fancycode.com/viewcvs/pylzma/trunk/?root=python

Greetings,
   Joachim
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From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:31:41 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:31:41 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:22:58 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    I guess I wasn't explicit enough. Most people who want cars also want an 
>engine. Some don't. Dealers could sell cars and engines separately. They 
>just (generally) don't. There is nothing illegal or immoral about this.

I used to be a retailer of custom computers.  MS used a dirty trick to
compete with IBM's OS/2.  They said to me as a retailer. You must buy
a copy of our OS for EVERY machine you sell.  The alternative is to
pay full retail for the OSes.

That meant a customer who wanted OS/2 had to effectively also buy an
unwanted copy of Windows. How could OS/2 compete?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From jfox at airmail.net  Mon Oct 10 18:11:08 2005
From: jfox at airmail.net (Jeff Fox)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:11:08 -0500
Subject: Learning Python
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.10.22.11.08.173871@airmail.net>

Lots of links to all levels of tutorials and documentation here:
http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html

Python Podcast too!




From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:20:24 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:20:24 +0100
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <1128607448.235410.152590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3qkmjcFfbem9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128607448.235410.152590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510060720o22000377w@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 Oct 2005 07:04:08 -0700, Flavio <fccoelho at gmail.com> wrote:
> I know I could pass these variables around as:
>
> def some_function(**variables):
>     ...
>
> some_function(**variables)
>
> but its a pain in the neck to have to refer to them as
> variables['whatever']...
>
> dont you think?

Err, no, not really. ;-)

If you'd prfefer to access them like this:

variables.whatever

Check out the Bunch class here -
<http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52308>.

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct  1 02:25:39 2005
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:25:39 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <z2j%e.111101$4i6.23453@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <dhk1jj$7ri$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<3q5nmhFdbcpbU1@individual.net>
	<z2j%e.111101$4i6.23453@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3q6of3Fddg7eU1@individual.net>

Ron Adam wrote:

>> It will be
>> 
>> A if B else (C if D else F)
> 
> So this evaluates as if there are parentheses around each section.. Hmm?
> 
>    (A) if (B) else ( (C) if (D) else (F) )
> 
> The first 'if' divided the expr, then each succeeding 'if' divides the 
> sub expressions, etc...  ?
> 
> So ...
> 
>    A if B else C + X * Y
> 
> Would evaluate as... ?
> 
>    A if B else (C + X * Y)
> 
> 
> and...
> 
>     value = X * Y + A if B else C
> 
> would be ?
> 
>     value = (X * Y + A) if B else C
> 
> or ?
> 
>     value = X * Y + (A if B else C)
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to make it a habit to put parentheses around these 
> things just as if they were required.

Yes, that's the best way to make it readable and understandable.

Reinhold


From mytsai at u.washington.edu  Fri Oct 14 02:25:27 2005
From: mytsai at u.washington.edu (Mingus Tsai)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:25:27 -0500
Subject: Help with cPickle for deserializing datetime.datetime instances
Message-ID: <dinj0p$ot1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

Hello- please help with unpickling problem:

I am using Python version 2.3.4 with IDLE version 1.0.3 on a Windows 
XPhome system.

My problem is with using cPickle to deserialize my pickled arrays of 
datetime.datetime instances.  The following is the code I have written:

	import cPickle, datetime
	import Numeric

#the file below contains a serialized dict with arrays of datetime 
#objects.  When these three statements run, the IDLE crashes!

	input1 = open('tsm2_outa','r')
	time1 = cPickle.load(input1)
	input1.close()

#the file below contains serialized dict with arrays of built-in objects
#it unpickles without any problem, when I omit the above unpickling 
#operation.

	input2 = open('tsm2_outb','rb')
	data1 = cPickle.load(input2)
	input2.close()

My guess is that I need to somehow tell the pickle.load command that it 
is loading datetime instances, but I have no idea how to do this.  Any 
help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ming


From ericlake at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 13:22:24 2005
From: ericlake at gmail.com (elake)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 10:22:24 -0700
Subject: Log rolling question
In-Reply-To: <GK2dnZfoNIAY9cPeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
References: <1130259387.787107.120740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<GK2dnZfoNIAY9cPeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1130260944.709944.129960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Is there a way to do this for a whole calendar month?



From enrique.palomo at xgs-spain.com  Fri Oct 21 04:36:04 2005
From: enrique.palomo at xgs-spain.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Enrique_Palomo_Jim=E9nez?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:36:04 +0200
Subject: finding a number...
Message-ID: <C8AA3BBE6E9DFB47A809842248F876E21FC618@pitagoras.xgs-spain.com>

After ftp a file from mvs to windows, i find:

is an offset, so up to 2GB, a commercial application drives crazy
this is the result

2147450785|
2147466880|
2147483412|
???Z??Y?X?|
???Z?????Z|
???Z???Y?0|

could i know what's that?

thanks


From DerrickHaller at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 12:03:10 2005
From: DerrickHaller at gmail.com (DaBeef)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 09:03:10 -0800
Subject: Instantiating Classes in python (newbie)
Message-ID: <1130778190.962165.307250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello, I am learning python for work from knowing java,c#,c.  I had a
couple questions.
1)  IntegerClass - to instantiate this class how come I use i =
IntegerClass.IntegerClass() and then this works while i =
IntegerClass() i.method.  I receive an error.

2)  Also using self in the method (self, dataVal).  What does this do
differently from using (dataval).  I am a little confused about the
bound and unbound methods.  What does passing self do different?
Thank-you for all your help



From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Sat Oct 29 12:43:44 2005
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:43:44 +0200
Subject: Automatically creating a HOME environ variable on Windows?
References: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djvgei$5t7$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<1130590817.728832.291020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051029164345.54C1.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

jim.eggleston at gmail.com wrote:

> Cool, even better. So what's best, having code to add HOME
> (=USERPROFILE) to os.environ, or change the various places that HOME is
> used to check for USERPROFILE?

Best solution would be to have portable function that returns
user home directory and knows about all platfom quirks.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

If you lost your left arm, your right arm would be left.



From andreas at kostyrka.org  Thu Oct 20 02:56:44 2005
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:56:44 +0200
Subject: Abstract Methods & Abstract Class
In-Reply-To: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D91@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D91@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <20051020065644.GA10206@heaven.kostyrka.org>

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 12:05:05PM +0530, Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
> 
> Do we have something like abstract methods & Abstract class.
> 
> So that my class would just define the method. And the implementation
> would be defined by somebody else.

class AbstractBase:
    def method(self):
        raise TypeError("abstract method called")

But basically, Python does not have abstract methods, and usually doesn't
need them.

Andreas


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Tue Oct 11 02:58:11 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:58:11 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434B6283.809@designaproduct.biz>

dcrespo wrote:

>?Beautiful and elegant solution!
>
>Two copies of the password: one on the client, the other on the server.
>
>1. Client wants to connect
>2. Server generates a random_alphanumeric_string and sends it to the
>client
>3. Both Client and Server creates a hash string from
><password+random_alphanumeric_string>
>4. Client sends the hash string to the server
>5. Server compares his hash result with the hash string received from
>de client.
>
>I think it is a very good solution, Isn't it?
>  
>
In fact this is almost an OTP but be aware!
A man-in-the-middle attack can crack your algorithm. This is beacuse you 
create a random string only on one side.
You cannot trust in the connection you are using. You can modify you 
algorigthm to be more secure:

1. Client wants to connect
2. Server generates a server_random_alphanumeric_string and sends it to the
client
3. Client generates a client_random_alphanumeric_string and sends it to the
client too
3. Both Client and Server creates a hash string from
<server_random_alphanumeric_string+password+client_random_alphanumeric_string>

4. Client sends the hash string to the server
5. Server compares his hash result with the hash string received from
de client.

This is only a bit difference, but is makes sense. An intuder (who knows 
the your algorithm, because getting the code is not as difficult) could 
make a fake server to you, and send back HIS string (that is not 
random). Suppose we have a weakness in the hash function. The intuder 
can exploit this weakness by sending you his special string. The 
modified version has the advantage of sending two random strings, this 
way the intuder cannot take advantage of possible hash function 
weaknesses, because the hash function will be called on a string that is 
random for sure.

Best,

Les




From ryankaskel at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 13:34:07 2005
From: ryankaskel at gmail.com (ryankaskel at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 10:34:07 -0700
Subject: Zope and Persistence
Message-ID: <1130002447.553341.226500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post a Zope question
but I figure many here are familiar with it. I'm confused about the
role of the ZMI when it comes to development. I want to write a simple
script that logs page hits. I wrote it in what was called a Script
(Python) resource in the ZMI. When I access the page it gives an error
saying that this file cannot import Persistence, etc. This makes sense
but where would I put this script and how would I invoke it? It is only
supposed to store an integer in Data.fs. Thanks.



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct 12 12:13:52 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:13:52 -0500
Subject: Converting C++ array into Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1957.1129122735.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1957.1129122735.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eZCdnVD6O_XQq9DeRVn-ig@comcast.com>

Like others, without more information on what you have tried we are
just guessing.  Many times I've used the struct.unpack() module to
unpack C "arrays" into python objects.  Don't know if this will help,
but thought I'd pass it along.  Post some code and we can help more.

-Larry Bates

Adriaan Renting wrote:
> try using SWIG?
> You give very little information about how you are trying to accomplish this. From your mention of C++ you seem to mean a vector, not an array, I suggest you read the documentation of SWIG, and maybe someone can help you if you give a clear example of what you are trying to accomplish, how, and why it fails.
> 
> Adriaan Renting.  
>   
> 
>>>>"Deshdeep, Singh (IE10)" <Deshdeep.Singh at honeywell.com> 10/04/05 7:33 am >>> 
> 
> 
>  I am extending C++ application with python. I am not able to convert a C++ array in Python.    
>      
>  If anyone has the experience of the below :-   
>   1)            How to handle the C++ array in the Python code and how to input that from the script ?   
>      
>  Awaiting for the solution   
>      
>  Regards   
>  DD   
>      


From lameiro at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 01:23:13 2005
From: lameiro at gmail.com (Leandro Lameiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:23:13 -0300
Subject: MD5 module Pythonicity
Message-ID: <6815022a0510142223q3b6ae449ja0483f2f25ebb263@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks

Recently I have been discussing with a friend about python ease of
use, and it is really good at this. This friend needed to calculate
the MD5 hash of some files and was telling me about the MD5 module.
The way he told me and how it is described in the Python Docs, the
method to calculate hashes did not seemed very pythonic to me, but it
was certainly very simple and easy:

The method is (taken from python official documentation):

>>> import md5
>>> m = md5.new()
>>> m.update("Nobody inspects")
>>> m.update(" the spammish repetition")
>>> m.digest()
'\xbbd\x9c\x83\xdd\x1e\xa5\xc9\xd9\xde\xc9\xa1\x8d\xf0\xff\xe9'

The idea to use this for files is: open file, take little chunks of
the file, call update for each one, and when you are done reading the
file, call digest. Well, OK, it is very simples and easy.
But wouldn't it be more pythonic if it did exist some kind of
md5.calculate_from_file("file") ?!
This way, you wouldn't have to split the file by yourself (this
function proposed would do this for you etc) and would make code a lot
more readable:

>>> import md5
>>> md5.calculate_from_file("/home/foo/bar.bz2")

or something like this. (Maybe passing to the md5 calculate_from_file
the open file object, instead of the string)

One alternative also shown in the documentation is to do everything at once:

>>> import md5
>>> md5.new("Nobody inspects the spammish repetition").digest()

Well, OK, this one is a bit more readable (it is not as good as I
think it could be), but has the disadvantage of having to load the
WHOLE file to memory.

What's wrong in having a function like the one I said, that would
split files for you, feed md5.update and, when it is over, return the
digest?
It is easier, doesn't require MD5 objects creation, works well on
small and big files, makes the code more readable and simple. Also,
calculating MD5 of files seems to be a common enough task to be put in
the library (well, at least on GNU/Linux we have one command just for
this - md5sum)

"Although practicality beats purity."
"Readability counts."
"Beautiful is better than ugly."

Have I got the wrong "Pythonic" definition?

--
Thanks in advance
Regards
Leandro Lameiro


From petr at tpc.cz  Tue Oct 18 18:52:28 2005
From: petr at tpc.cz (McBooCzech)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 15:52:28 -0700
Subject: Dealing with Excel
In-Reply-To: <1129672724.324991.221330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129672548.082627.35180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129672724.324991.221330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129675948.734764.17570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Robert
Sorry I was not more clear in my posting. I am solving similar problem
as you are.

1) I am getting my data from the Firebird SQL database - directly,
using SQL commands (kinterbasdb module), not using ODBC, or ADODB or
what ever - some people here can suggest you how to connect directly to
the Oracle.

2) In the Python code, I am processing data I have got from the
Firebird (I have data stored in the two dimensional list usually)

3) I am setting up the Excel cell range according to the final size of
data using Visual Basic for Applications commands for example:

rng=xlApp.Range(xlApp.Cells(1,1),xlApp.Cells(len(rw),len(rw[0])))

4) I am putting data from the Python to the Excel
rng.Value=rw

5) I am formatting the data in the Excel worksheet using the VBA code
from the Python code and finally I can save it, (it is possible get
Excel under the full control from the Python).

That's it!

I am just a newbie in the Python, so I somebody here can show you
different (better) way to go, but above mentioned works for me great.

If you are looking for the way how to create (generate) the Excel file
directly from the Python, I didn't find it. The only simple way I have
found in this discussion group is to save your data separated by
semicolons in the file with the .csv extension. Excel will recognize it
as an Excel file and open it without problems.

Petr Jakes



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sat Oct 15 01:16:00 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 05:16:00 GMT
Subject: how to make this code faster
References: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-F4A25A.01161115102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1129183717.183243.100540 at g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "ajikoe at gmail.com" <ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:

> def f(x,y):
>     return math.sin(x*y) + 8 * x
> I have code like this:
> 
> def main():
>     n = 2000
>     a = zeros((n,n), Float)
>     xcoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
>     ycoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
> 
> 
>     for i in range(n):
>         for j in range(n):
>             a[i,j] = f(xcoor[i], ycoor[j])  # f(x,y) = sin(x*y) + 8*x
> 
>     print a[1000,1000]
>     pass
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     main()

I would guess that you are spending most of your time calculating 
sin(x*y).  To find out, just replace f(x,y) with 1, which will produce 
wrong results really fast, and see what that does to your execution time.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From benji at benjiyork.com  Mon Oct  3 08:21:42 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:21:42 -0400
Subject: Automating, Building, Testing and  Deploying to Production Server
In-Reply-To: <1128288243.694287.134210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128288243.694287.134210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43412256.10104@benjiyork.com>

yoda wrote:
> I realize I'm losing so much time I could spend more productively. I'd
> therefore like to know the different approaches you guys employ to
> deploy builds from your staging servers (or laptops:) to the production
> server in an automated repeatable safe manner.

> How do you automate the process?

We have a system called "the buildout" that checks out a project's code, 
downloads and builds any dependencies, and configures a working system.
(http://svn.zope.org/Sandbox/zc/buildout/trunk/)

We use that for setting up new development environments (each developer 
generally has several builds of any project at one time).

> What tools do you use and how?

We also have a BuildBot setup that runs a buildout and then runs the 
tests and emails a list if the tests fail (http://buildbot.sf.net).  You 
can see an example of our "public" buildbot here: http://buildbot.zope.org.

> What documentation is available for the various tools?

We just publicly released the buildout code a couple of weeks ago, and 
it seriously needs docs and tests.

BuildBot doesn't have great docs, but it's configured via Python, so 
it's not too bad.

> What is the best, easiest, most automated, method that provides robust
> versioning and easy rollback?

When we deploy via buildout (as opposed to by using an installer or a 
simple archive) we generally either just tell the buildout to update 
itself, or if we want the ability to "roll back" make a new buildout and 
switch to it (therefore we can switch back to the previous build).

We don't do it this way, but because the buildout for a particular 
project is itself versioned, you could just "svn up" to the previous 
version and rebuild it and you'd be back to where you started.
--
Benji York




From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Oct 18 13:49:51 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:49:51 +0200
Subject: A little help with time calculations
In-Reply-To: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rkqu0Fk50daU1@uni-berlin.de>

iminal wrote:
> I am trying to make a very simple program and am very new to the whole
> programming thing. my program is supposed to ask a user for any time in
> the for format XX:XX:XX and then ask for a time corrrection to add or
> subtract to this. my only problem is that once the user inputs the time
> and the correction its adding it like it was 100 not to 60 any help?

Without code, nobody can help you.

Regards,

Diez


From tim at tt1lock.org  Tue Oct 18 04:12:23 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:12:23 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<Xns96F0C6A35F486castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<11l3fig34u2ln27@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <IoJqsn.GKA@bath.ac.uk>

Gordon Burditt <gordonb.8p4v4 at burditt.org> wrote or quoted:

> Before worrying about the possible bugs in the implementations,
> worry about security issues present in the *DESIGN*.  Email ought
> to be usable to carry out a conversation *SAFELY* with some person out
> to get you.  Thus features like this are dangerous (in the *design*,
> not because they *might* hide a buffer-overflow exploit):
> 
> - Hyperlinks to anything *outside* the email in which the link
>   resides ("web bugs").

Acceptable risk, IMO.

> - Any ability to automatically generate hits on sender-specified
>   servers when the email is read.

I hadn't though of that one.  As well as use in DDOS attacks, that
can help let spammers know if they have reached a human :-|

Even a link in a plain text email can be used (though with reduced
effectiveness) in such a context :-(
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From karczma at info.unicaen.fr  Tue Oct  4 07:48:03 2005
From: karczma at info.unicaen.fr (Jerzy Karczmarczuk)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:48:03 +0200
Subject: What is executed when in a generator
Message-ID: <dhtq5k$62c$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>

I thought that the following sequence

gl=0
def gen(x):
     global gl
     gl=x
     yield x

s=gen(1)

suspends the generator just before the yield, so after the
assignment of s gl becomes 1.

Well, no. It is still zero. If I put

print "something"

before the yield, this doesn't get executed either. *EVERYTHING*
from the beginning until the yield gets executed only upon s.next().

Could you tell me please where can I read something in depth about the
semantics of generators? I feel a bit lost.
Thank you.


Jerzy Karczmarczuk


From superprad at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 16:51:14 2005
From: superprad at gmail.com (PyPK)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 13:51:14 -0700
Subject: File compare
Message-ID: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have two files
file1 in format
<id> <val1> <test1> <test2>
'AA' 1 T T
'AB' 1 T F

file2 same as file1
<id> <val1> <test1> <test2>
'AA' 1 T T
'AB' 1 T T

Also the compare should be based on id. So it should look for line
starting with id 'AA' (for example) and then match the line  so if in
second case.

so this is what I am looking for:
1. read both files.
2. read id of first line in file1 check if it matches with the same id
in file2.
3. repeat step 2 for all lines in file1.
4. return a percent of success to failure. ie if one line matches and
one lines does'nt then return 0.5 or 50%

I wrote a boolean version ..as a start

def getdata(f):
    try:
        f1 = open(f,'r')
        data=[]
        for eachline in f1.readlines():
           data.append(re.split("",
              re.sub('\n','',strip(re.split('\s\s+',eachline)[0]))))
        return data
    except IOError:
        raise("Invalid File Input")

if __name__=='__main__':

        data1 = getdata('file1')
        data2 = getdata('file2')

        if data1 == data2:
            print "True"
        else:
            print "False"

hope I am clear...



From dudufigueiredo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 20:48:18 2005
From: dudufigueiredo at gmail.com (Dudu Figueiredo)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 17:48:18 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2750.1130795789.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2744.1130787080.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130789205.862429.10090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051031220841.GF2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
	<mailman.2750.1130795789.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130809697.973962.291230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Micah, thanks a lot, nice script!
But its not completly working, i ran this:

    fix_ugly_song_names('C:\My Shared Folder\Rubber Soul', 'The
Beatles', spacerepl=' ')

And the shell prints this:

    01 drive my car.mp3 --> The Beatles - Drive My Car.mp3
    02 norwegian wood (this bird has flo).mp3 --> The Beatles -
Norwegian Wood This Bird Has Flo.mp3
    03 you won't see me.mp3 --> The Beatles - You Wont See Me.mp3
        04 nowhere man.mp3 --> The Beatles - Nowhere Man.mp3
    05 think for yourself.mp3 --> The Beatles - Think For Yourself.mp3
    06 the word.mp3 --> The Beatles - The Word.mp3
    07 michelle.mp3 --> The Beatles - Michelle.mp3
    08 what goes on.mp3 --> The Beatles - What Goes On.mp3
    09 girl.mp3 --> The Beatles - Girl.mp3
    10 i'm looking through you.mp3 --> The Beatles - Im Looking Through
You.mp3
    11 in my life.mp3 --> The Beatles - In My Life.mp3
    12 wait.mp3 --> The Beatles - Wait.mp3
    13 if i needed someone.mp3 --> The Beatles - If I Needed
Someone.mp3
    14 run for your life.mp3 --> The Beatles - Run For Your Life.mp3

But the files didn't change in the folder!
Is there something mising or i'm doing something worng ??



From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Mon Oct  3 14:23:37 2005
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:23:37 -0700
Subject: Py2Exe + kinterbasdb
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F3815CD@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

durumdara at mailpont.hu wrote:
> I compile an application (that working good in native python) to exe
> with py2exe.
> In native mode (python.exe ReportApp.py) it is working, the reports
are
> created good.
> But when I try to create a report from the compiled exe, it is show an
> error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Report01.pyc", line 164, in OnButton1Button
>   File "report_01.pyc", line 12, in OpenDBForReport
>   File "report_db.pyc", line 11, in OpenDB
>   File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 472, in connect
>   File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 558, in __init__
>   File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 367, in _ensureInitialized
>   File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 315, in init
> ImportError: No module named typeconv_backcompat

Try adding kinterbasdb to the py2exe packages options as shown below:

setup(
      console=["Report01.py"],
      options={"py2exe": {"packages": ["kinterbasdb"]}}
     )

Jimmy


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct  6 02:14:38 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 06:14:38 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk751c.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E6695EF22B6duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4344b80d.3321657210@news.oz.net>

On 5 Oct 2005 09:27:04 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> It also is one possibility to implement writable closures.
>> 
>> One could for instace have a 'declare' have the effect that
>> if on a more inner scope such a declared variable is (re)bound it
>> will rebind the declared variable instead of binding a local name.
>
>That is one possibility, but I think that it would be better to use a 
>keyword at the point of the assigment to indicate assignment to an outer 
>scope. This fits with the way 'global' works: you declare at (or near) the 
>assignment that it is going to a global variable, not in some far away part 
>of the code, so the global nature of the assignment is clearly visible. The 
>'global' keyword itself would be much improved if it appeared on the same 
>line as the assignment rather than as a separate declaration.
>
>e.g. something like:
>
>var1 = 0
>
>def f():
>  var2 = 0
>
>  def g():
>     outer var2 = 1 # Assign to outer variable
>     global var1 = 1 # Assign to global

IMO you don't really need all that cruft most of the time. E.g., what if ':='
meant 'assign to variable wherever it is (and it must exist), searching according
to normal variable resolution order (fresh coinage, vro for short ;-), starting with
local, then lexically enclosing and so forth out to module global (but not to builtins).'

If you wanted to assign/rebind past a local var shadowing an enclosing variable var, you'd have
to use e.g. vro(1).var = expr instead of var := expr.  Sort of analogous to
type(self).mro()[1].method(self, ...)   Hm, vro(1).__dict__['var'] = expr could conceivably
force binding at the vro(1) scope specifically, and not search outwards. But for that there
would be optimization issues I think, since allowing an arbitrary binding would force a real
dict creation on the fly to hold the the new name slot.

BTW, if/when we can push a new namespace on top of the vro stack with a 'with namespace: ...' or such,
vro(0) would still be at the top, and vro(1) will be the local before the with, and := can still
be sugar for find-and-rebind.

Using := and not finding something to rebind would be a NameError. Ditto for
vro(n).nonexistent_name_at_level_n_or_outwards. vro(-1) could refer global module scope
and vro(-2) go inwards towards local scope at vro(0). So vro(-1).gvar=expr would
give you the effect of globals()['gvar']=expr with a pre-existence check.

The pre-existence requirement would effectively be a kind of declaration requirement for
the var := expr usage, and an initialization to a particular type could enhance inference.
Especially if you could have a decorator for statements in general, not just def's, and
you could then have a sticky-types decoration that would say certain bindings may be inferred
to stick to their initial binding's object's type.

Rambling uncontrollably ;-)
My .02USD ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:52:46 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:52:46 -0700
Subject: Popularity of blogging tools used by python programmers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129823566.831075.73770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I just see a database error on your blog, perhaps you should have used
Python instead of PHP? Ok, kidding ;)

Since i can't see your comparison, i have to guess. PHP wins? Would not
surprise me, because PHP+MySQL is the easiest hosting to get.
Wordpress, Textpattern, ... are also much more polished.

btw my blog runs on Python! :D
http://beza1e1.tuxen.de



From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Oct 31 04:36:23 2005
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:36:23 +0100
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
In-Reply-To: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk4oii$qqv$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Johnny Lee wrote:
>>>>print time1, time2
> 
> 1130748744.461 1130748744.500
> 
>>>>float(time2) - float(time1)
> 
> 0.039000034332275391
> 
> 
>    Why are there so many nonsense tails? thanks for your help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_point#Problems_with_floating-point, 
especially 'Rounding'. Or google for "gloating point precision" if you 
need more details.

Daniel


From entropy at domain.invalid  Tue Oct 25 14:07:52 2005
From: entropy at domain.invalid (entropy)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:07:52 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<11lsopl4qpg9gc2@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.17.16.04.89184@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc83e5092b6a44c98a5ca@news.verizon.net>

steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au wrote...
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:54:13 +0000, John Wingate wrote:
> 
> > Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote:
> >> That would be a good guess, except that Microsoft's predatory and illegal
> >> behaviour began long before OS/2 was even planned. It began in the mid
> >> 1970s, with MS DOS.
> > 
> > Nitpick: MS-DOS first appeared in 1981.
> 
> [slaps head]
> 
> Of course it did.

The first thing I ever bought of Microsoft's, in 1982 or so, was a 
CP/M board for my Apple IIe.

CP/M, whose programmers to this day defend sticking with 8-bit CPUs 
because 'they can't find a 4-bit chip they like'.  Yeah, there's some 
desktop innovation for you.

OS/2 1.0 was released in 1987, but the "selling" of it started in 
1985 or so by IBM and Microsoft.  It was a 286 OS.  

IBM seems to have had a history of squeezing out competition in the 
same way Microsoft has, if I recall correctly.





From mynewsa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:28:27 2005
From: mynewsa at gmail.com (Amol Vaidya)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:28:27 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>


"Casey Hawthorne" <caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca> wrote in message 
news:02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug at 4ax.com...
> What languages do you know already?
>
> What computer science concepts do you know?
>
> What computer programming concepts do you know?
>
>
> Have you heard of Scheme?
>
>
> Ruby is a bit Perl like -- so if you like Perl, chances are you might
> like Ruby.
>
> Python is more like Java.
>
> I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
> about
> 10,000 lines in C++
> it is about
> 5,000 lines in Java
> and it is about
> 3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)

I've done a lot of studying on my own, and taken the classes that my 
high-school offers. I feel that I have a fairly good understanding of Java, 
and basic OO concepts due to that. I've created some semi-complex programs 
in java, in my opinion, such as networked checkers, 8-player blackjack, a 
space-shooter type game, a copy of mario (one level, anyway), and some other 
stuff. I've also done a bit of studying on C. I've done a few projects in C, 
including another space-shooter type of game using SDL, an IRC client and 
some simple database-type programs. I also gave a shot at assembly using 
NASM for x86 before, but didn't get too far. I wrote some trivial code --  
wrote to the video buffer, played with some bios interrupts, stuff like 
that. The only thing I did in assembly was create a program that loads at 
boot-up, and loads another program that just reiterates whatever you type 
in. I only did that because I was curious. That's about as far as my 
programming knowledge/experience goes.

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by programming concepts. I'm familiar with 
OO through Java, and procedural programming through C. I'd be more detailed, 
but I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. Sorry.

I have no idea what Scheme is, but I'll cettainly look it up as soon as I'm 
done writing this.

I've never given Perl a shot. It was another language I considered learning, 
but my father's friend told me to go with Python or Ruby.

Thanks for your help. Hopefully I wasn't too lengthy in this post. 




From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 19 02:16:32 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:16:32 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi at 4ax.com...

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:30:42 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    No, taken stupidly. Hint: would or would not MS executives disobeying
>>the law constitute a betrayal of their obligation to their shareholders?

> You stated it literally as if making maximum profit for the
> shareholders were the only consideration in determining conduct.

    No, I did not. I said that their obligation is to their shareholders.

> If that is not what you mean, I think you need to hedge more.

    I was perfectly clear. This is a lot of deliberate misunderstanding 
going on in this thread and very little of it is from my side.

    DS




From andrew.markebo at comhem.se  Tue Oct 11 08:50:12 2005
From: andrew.markebo at comhem.se (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:50:12 GMT
Subject: win32com, generating the cache programaticaly?
Message-ID: <m3oe5wtdz0.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>


Hello!

I am messing around with communicating between LabVIEW and Python, got
it to work by a small 'fix' (grabbing the generated file, and
importing it by hand)

What I might want to do, is to automatically generate the data done by
executing makepy.py and run by it.

What I select in makepy.py is a library "LabVIEW data 7.1", I would
like to do this from my program. Any hints?

Then, is it possible making this on a minor mode, basically I have
only to dig out the CLSID of "LabVIEW data 7.1" and put it into the
generated file.. sort of?? 

          /Andy

-- 
 "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it."

-- Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire (1694-1778), French philosopher,
   writer, "Candide"


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Oct 27 14:17:08 2005
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:17:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djr3mn$ekm$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<djr4ql$cid$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <djr5j3$p9c$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <djr4ql$cid$1 at nntp.webmaster.com> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>     When you say "it only become illegal", you are just being vague. Nothing 
> becomes illegal. The abuse is illegal, but it never was legal.

You're splitting hairs.  But hey, what's usenet for?

-- 
John Gordon            "It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese."
gordon at panix.com



From thetau at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 15:04:48 2005
From: thetau at gmail.com (tt)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 12:04:48 -0700
Subject: mod_python works as standalone, does not as service (Windows XP)
Message-ID: <1128279888.477528.154310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

My mod_python 3.1.4 installation works when Apache 2.0.54 is run in
standalone mode (apache -k standalone) but refuses to operate when run
as a service (apache -k restart).

Logs yield the usual and well-known "make_obcallback: could not import
mod_python.apache" error. I have tried PYTHONHOME, LoadFile
python24.dll (2.4.2) with no result.

I have read *all* threads about make_obcallback that google found.
What's even weirder I had this module working yesterday but had to make
apache cleanup (fresh installation) and now this is completely stuck. I
remember that last time I just had to reinstall Apache over existing
mod_python files to get it working but this time it just pointless.

I thank everyone who understand differences between standalone and
service modes of Apache better than I do.



From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 14:35:20 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: gprof results
Message-ID: <20051017183520.50722.qmail@web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello All,

I googled to find an answer for my question, but had
no luck. I'm trying to profile a Python program using
gprof, but I don't understand what _moncount and
mcount are. I couldn't find their source code under
Python source tree. moncount takes about 30% of my
program... What are _moncount and mcount for? Are they
functions or variables? Any ideas?

Thank you for your help! 


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct  6 10:26:14 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:26:14 +0200
Subject: Absolultely confused...
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7jcqbu2h.fsf@python.net>

Jeremy Moles <jeremy at emperorlinux.com> writes:

> So, here is my relevant code:
>
> 	PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)
>
> And here ismy error message:
>
> 	argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d
>
> I know PyType_vector3d "works" (as I can use them in the interpreter all
> day long), and I know I'm passing a pylf.core.vector3d (well, apparently
> not...)
>
> I've spent hours and hours on this and I'm finally just giving up and
> asking. I've tried everything to get my program to verify that arg1 is
> really a PyType_vector3d, but to no avail.
>
> If I take out the "!" in the format string and just use "O", I can at
> least get past PyArg_ParseTuple. Then I try something like...
>
> 	PyObject_TypeCheck(arg1, &PyType_vector3d)
>
> Which also fails, but I know for a fact that arg1's PyObject_Repr is
> what it should be. (pylf.core.vector3d)
>
> I guess my question is: what in the world could be causing this to fail?
> It seems like I'm just not able to use ParseType or BuildValue to create
> objects of my own type.
>
> I know I haven't provided a lot of information, but does anyone have any
> ideas or where I should start looking?

Can it be that you have TWO instances of the pylf.core.vector3d object?
Debugging should reveal it...

Thomas


From codecraig at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:51:46 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:51:46 -0700
Subject: SWIG + print value of pointer
Message-ID: <1128696706.345549.245260@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am using SWIG to wrap a C application for use in Python.

C code
======
// returns a pointer to an array of long values in the string, "input"
// MY_DIGIT is a typedef such as, typedef unsigned long MY_DIGIT;
MY_DIGIT *Split(char *input) { ... }

..I build a DLL named, _MyApp.dll

SWIG interface
==============
%module MyApp
extern MY_DIGIT *Split(char *input, char *delimiters);

%include cpointer.i
%pointer_functions(MY_DIGIT, md_ptr);

Python
=============
>> from MyApp import *
>> msg = "5,7,1,0,4,6,9"
>> delims = ","
>> results = Split(msg, delims)
>> str(results)
'_401ba700_p_MY_DIGIT'
>> repr(results)
'<Swig Object at _401ba700_p_MY_DIGIT>'
>> print results

...when I print "results" python.exe crashes

...any idea why it crashes?  Why can't I print it?  FYI, if it matters,
I do the same steps in the main method of my C code and there is no
problem.

thanks.



From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Wed Oct  5 07:55:03 2005
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:55:03 +0200
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <dhvtnu$22jo$1@news.tsua.net>
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
	<4342bb72$0$6128$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<dhvtnu$22jo$1@news.tsua.net>
Message-ID: <4343be88$0$4345$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Maksim Kasimov a ?crit :
> 
> yes, to generete core dump is the best way,
> 
> but the command "$ ulimit -c 500000" don't make python to generete core
> dump in the time of crush.
> 
> I would like to know how to run python script so if it crushes than core
> dump will be genereted.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 

If it does not, that probably means the core file is larger ... try a
larger value or even "unlimited" :

$ ulimit -c unlimited

Pierre


From nntp.20.drfarina at recursor.net  Tue Oct 18 07:33:42 2005
From: nntp.20.drfarina at recursor.net (Dan Farina)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:33:42 -0700
Subject: Hygenic Macros
In-Reply-To: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
References: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
Message-ID: <dj2mii$1bbc$1@geode.berkeley.edu>

David Pokorny wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
> good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
> multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
> multiplication). In Python, I have to type
> 
> import Numeric
> matrixmultiply(A,B)
> 
> which makes my code almost unreadable.
> 
> Thanks,
> David

The problem here is that Python's parse trees are of non-trivial ugliness.

A page on the compiler.ast module:
http://docs.python.org/lib/node792.html

it is, in fact, perfectly possible to write yourself a pre-processor for 
your particular application.  You may have to fiddle with the token you 
want for notation depending on how the AST fleshes out (% is used by at 
least a couple of things, after all).  My cursory familiarity with 
python grammar suggests to me that this particular choice of token could 
be a problem.

I would say try it and see.  Keep in mind though that since Python's AST 
is not a trivial matter like it is in Lisp and the like that doing 
metaprogramming of this sort probably falls into the category of black 
magic unless it turns out to be very trivial.

Another option is to define your own tiny class that will override the 
__mult__ method so that you can simply do:

A * B

Which may not be what you want.

df


From steve at ferg.org  Fri Oct  7 14:06:56 2005
From: steve at ferg.org (Steve)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 11:06:56 -0700
Subject: Why do I get an import error on this?
References: <1128703953.497560.47620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1712.1128705717.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128708416.678028.26890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I did "which python" and the two paths were different.  Once I fixed
the path in the script, it worked fine.

Thanks Frederik and Micah!



From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 02:39:34 2005
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (mirandacascade at yahoo.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 23:39:34 -0700
Subject: Understanding the arguments for SubElement factory in ElementTree
Message-ID: <1130567974.754511.66930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Can the **extra argument in the SubElement() factory in ElementTree be
used to set the text property? Example:

Want the text associated with the <subroot> tag to be xyz.

<root>
  <subroot>xyz</subroot>
</root>

rather than:
root = Element('root')
subroot = SubElement(root, 'subroot')
subroot.text = 'xyz'

Was wondering whether this code accomplish that
root = Element('root')
subroot = SubElement(root, 'subroot', text='xyz')



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 10:11:32 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:11:32 +0100
Subject: Can module access global from __main__?
In-Reply-To: <digf7s$j3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <digf7s$j3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <digh6l$r0r$1@sea.gmane.org>

Neal Becker wrote:
> Suppose I have a main program, e.g., A.py.  In A.py we have:
> 
> X = 2
> import B
> 
> Now B is a module B.py.  In B, how can we access the value of X?
> 
> 
Without trying in any way to dodge the question, why do you want to do that?

There's a property of software called "coupling" that's used to describe 
the way that communications take place between different components of a 
piece of software. Ideally modules should be loosely-coupled, which is 
usually achieved by passing values in as function or method arguments 
and receiving the results as the return values of said functions or methods.

When a module is loosely-coupled in this way it's possible to revise the 
structure of one component completely (while maintaining the same 
interface specification) without affecting any other component.

By introducing some magic "load a variable from the namespace of the 
importing module" you make your modules tightly-coupled, which is very 
bad for maintainability: what happens if you now import B.py into a 
module that doesn't create an X in its namespace?

The fact that you ask the question implies that you really need to think 
a little harder about the structure of your program. If you tell us the 
*real* problem (back to my "why do you want to do that" question ...) 
perhaps we can suggest a better-structured solution.

regards
  Steve

PS: If A is the main program (the module that you have run) then you 
should be able to access it as __main__.X, but you'd be *very naughty* 
to do so :-)
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From ericlake at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 12:56:27 2005
From: ericlake at gmail.com (elake)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:56:27 -0700
Subject: Log rolling question
Message-ID: <1130259387.787107.120740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have an application that creates a lot of large log files. I only
want to keep logs for the previous 4 months. I am looking for a way to
list the contents of the log dir and if the create date on the log is
older than 4 months delete it. I have looked at the os.stat() function
to get the created date but I can't figure out how to get the date to
go back to a previos time.

Any help would be appreciated.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct 21 02:53:20 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 06:53:20 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-20, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> 
> Ergo: use rich comparisons.

rich comparosons can only solve the problem partly.

Python does have the cmp function and that can give
totaly inconsistent results even when the order
defined by the rich comparison functions is consistent
but only partial.

I think it is a problem if cmp gives me the following
results.

>>>  a1 = foo(1)
>>>  a2 = foo(2)
>>>  b1 = foo(1)
>>>  b2 = foo(2)
>>>  cmp(a1,b1)
0
>>>  cmp(a2,b2)
0
>>>  cmp(a1,a2)
1
>>>  cmp(b1,a2)
1
>>>  cmp(a1,b2)
-1

It would be better if cmp would give an indication it
can't compare two objects instead of giving incorrect
and inconsistent results.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 16:13:32 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:13:32 -0000
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>
	<868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <11liivcbmeops4b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>> My point: the OP wanted to know how to export an environment
>> variable to a child process.  Either of the lines of code above
>> will do that, so what's with all the shellular shenanigans?
>
> Actually, the OP didn't say he wanted to export a variable to a child
> process. He said he wanted to know how to do the equivalent of "export
> SYMBOL=value", which got intreprted as "setting a variable in the
> parent shell."

The only think you can export an environment variable to is a
child process, so I thought it obvious that was what he was
doing with the "export" command example.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm gliding over a
                                  at               NUCLEAR WASTE DUMP near
                               visi.com            ATLANTA, Georgia!!


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 09:18:20 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 06:18:20 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129727418.181264.161000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
	<1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<8MudnZpGf80SLMjeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129727418.181264.161000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129727900.662174.275420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Ok, sorry about the above question. I solved it adding this to the main
thread:

try:
    SrvrTCP = module.ThreadedTCPServer(ip,port)
    SrvrTCP.start()
except Exception, description:
    MsgBox(self,"TCPServer
Error:\n\n"+str(description),title="TCPServer",style=wx.OK |
wx.ICON_ERROR)
    return

Peter, thank you very much.



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 15 19:24:21 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:24:21 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 GMT, Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted :
>
>>I think e-mail should be text only.
I think that is a useful base standard, which allows easy creation of
ad-hoc tools to search and extract data from your archives, etc. 
>
>I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
>HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.
>
>But HTML is not the problem!
Right, it's what the HTML-interpreting engines might do that is
the problem.
>
>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>  
>HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
>colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.
All good stuff, but I don't like worrying about side effects when I read
email.
>
>I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
>only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.
How about pdf?

>
>Program listings are much more readable on my website.
IMO FOSS pdf could provide all the layout benefits while
avoiding (allowing for bugs) all the downsides of X/HTML in emails.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From m.yalcin at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 17:27:45 2005
From: m.yalcin at gmail.com (corebump)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 14:27:45 -0700
Subject: Python for search engine development
Message-ID: <1128288465.580210.35460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi everybody,
i planinng develop a search engine and i think using the python. Python
performance is enough this project? 

Best Regards



From fabioz at esss.com.br  Thu Oct 13 11:41:18 2005
From: fabioz at esss.com.br (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:41:18 -0300
Subject: PyDev 0.9.8.3 released
In-Reply-To: <43382E1F.3000600@esss.com.br>
References: <43382E1F.3000600@esss.com.br>
Message-ID: <434E801E.3010702@esss.com.br>

Hi All,

PyDev - Python IDE (Python Development Enviroment for Eclipse) version 
0.9.8.3 has been released.

Check the homepage (http://pydev.sourceforge.net/) for more details.

Details for Release: 0.9.8.3


Major highlights:
------------------------

    * Debugger was improved to be faster (more info about it at my blog
      <http://pydev.blogspot.com/2005/10/high-speed-debugger.html> --
      http://pydev.blogspot.com/2005/10/high-speed-debugger.html)
    * The debugger is now getting info correctly on java classes when
      debugging jython
    * Add watch added to the editor popup menu
    * Added syntax highlighting to the 'self' token
    * Code folding added for 'glued' imports
    * Fixed some outline problems


Others that are new and noteworthy:
-----------------------------------------------------

    * Debugger does not try to get breakpoints on closed projects anymore
    * Some refreshing issues regarding the outline and colors when
      reusing the editor were fixed
    * Code completion for relative imports has changed a lot (there were
      some pretty hard-to-find bugs in this area...)
    * Some move imports problems fixed
    * The auto-add '(self):' now works with tabs too


Cheers,

Fabio

-- 
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer

ESSS - Engineering Simulation and Scientific Software
www.esss.com.br

PyDev - Python Development Enviroment for Eclipse
pydev.sf.net
pydev.blogspot.com





From nil at dev.nul  Sun Oct 16 09:16:39 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:16:39 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote in message 
news:cTp4f.16180$ae.11317 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Christian Stapfer wrote:
>
>> This discussion begins to sound like the recurring
>> arguments one hears between theoretical and
>> experimental physicists. Experimentalists tend
>> to overrate the importance of experimental data
>> (setting up a useful experiment, how to interpret
>> the experimental data one then gathers, and whether
>> one stands any chance of detecting systematic errors
>> of measurement, all depend on having a good *theory*
>> in the first place). Theoreticians, on the other hand,
>> tend to overrate the importance of the coherence of
>> theories. In truth, *both* are needed: good theories
>> *and* carefully collected experimental data.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Christian
>
> An interesting parallel can be made concerning management of production vs 
> management of creativity.
>
> In general, production needs checks and feedback to insure quality, but 
> will often come to a stand still if incomplete resources are available.
>
> Where as creativity needs checks to insure production, but in many cases 
> can still be productive even with incomplete or questionable resources. 
> The quality may very quite a bit in both directions, but in creative 
> tasks, that is to be expected.
>
> In many ways programmers are a mixture of these two.  I think I and Steven 
> use a style that is closer to the creative approach. I get the feeling 
> your background may be closer to the production style.
>
> Both are good and needed for different types of tasks. And I think most 
> programmers can switch styles to some degree if they need to.

Come to think of an experience that I shared
with a student who was one of those highly
creative experimentalists you seem to have
in mind. He had just bought a new PC and
wanted to check how fast its floating point
unit was as compared to our VAX. After
having done his wonderfully creative
experimenting, he was utterly dejected: "Our (old)
VAX is over 10'000 times faster than my new PC",
he told me, almost in despair. Whereupon I,
always the uncreative, dogmatic theoretician,
who does not believe that much in the decisiveness
of the outcome of mere experiments, told him
that this was *impossible*, that he *must* have
made a mistake...

    It turned out that the VAX compiler had been
clever enough to hoist his simple-minded test
code out of the driving loop. In fact, our VAX
calculated the body of the loop only *once*
and thus *immediately* announced that it had finished
the whole test - the compiler on this student's
PC, on the other hand, had not been clever enough
for this type of optimization: hence the difference...

  I think this is really a cautionary tale for
experimentalists: don't *believe* in the decisiveness
of the outcomes your experiments, but try to *understand*
them instead (i.e. relate them to your theoretical grasp
of the situation)...

Regards,
Christian




From cosmin at easynet.ro  Wed Oct 26 13:53:22 2005
From: cosmin at easynet.ro (Negoescu Constantin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:53:22 +0300
Subject: Problem ... with threads in Python
Message-ID: <000601c5da56$291323d0$a6b07856@cosmin>

Hello.

    I know that Python is not fully threadsafe. Unlike Java, where threading was considered to be so important that it is a part of the syntax, in Python threads were laid down at the altar of Portability. But, i really have to finish a project  which uses multiple threads in Python, and i shouldn't use the time.sleep() function.
    Is there any posibility to use multiple threads without using the time.sleep() function ? And if so, what that way should be ?

Best regards,
_Cosmin
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20051026/037de1b8/attachment.html>

From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 26 11:00:16 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:00:16 GMT
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4SM7f.4313$Zd.1145@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>


David Poundall wrote:

> However, what I really would like is something like...
> 
> class c_y:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.P1 = [0, 'OB1', 0 ]
>         self.P2 = [0, 'OB1', 1 ]
>         self.P3 = [0, 'OB1', 2 ]
>         self.P4 = [0, 'OB1', 3 ]
> 
> Because that way I can also hold binary loadings and data register
> (this is a PLC application) references which give me full information
> for handling the pump bits.
> 
> However, this means that I have to access the pump status bits like
> this...
> 
> Y.P4[0] = 1
> Y.P3[0] = 0
> 
> Which takes me away from the clean code
> 
> Y.P4 = 1
> Y.P3 = 0
> 
> That I would like to have.
> 
> Can anyone suggets a technique for parameter storage that may be able
> to give me what I want here ?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> David

How about the following?


(not tested)

class Pump(object):
     def __init__(self, name, ptype, number):
	self.status = 0
         self.name = name
         self.ptype = ptype
         self.number = number

class C_Y(object):
      def __init__(self, *plist):
           index = []
           for p in plist:
               self.__dict__[p[0]] = Pump(*p)
               index.append(p[0])
           self.index = index
      def showall(self):
           out = []
           for item in self.index:
                out.append( "%s:  %r\n"
                            % (item, self.__dict__[item] )

Then with a list formed as ....

     pumplist = [ ('p1', 'ob1', 0),
                  ('p2', 'ob1', 1),
                  ('p3', 'ob1', 2),
                  ...
                  ]

You can then do...

c_y = C_Y(pumplist)

print c_y.p1.name     --> 'p1'
print c_y.p1.status   --> 0
print c_y.p1.ptype    --> 'ob1'
print c_y.p1.number   --> 0


c_y.p1.status = 1     # p1 on
c_y.p1.status = 0     # p1 off

print c_y.p2.status   --> 0
print c_y.p2.ptype    --> 'ob1'
print c_y.p2.number   --> 1

etc...

print c_y.showall()


Cheers,
    Ron













From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 10:57:41 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:57:41 +0200
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
References: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1129152455.3374.20.camel@localhost.localdomain><mailman.1991.1129194578.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129209047.946591.44780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dilsl7$1gc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Java and Swing wrote:

> and I get this error..
>
> C:\project\myapp.c(549) : error C2040: 'get_long_array' : 'long
> *(struct _object *,int *)' differs in levels of indirection from 'int
> ()'

so what's on line 549 in myapp.c?

what other warnings did you get from the compiler?

do you have other things named "get_long_array" in your program ?

(I'm really beginning to think that you should take a break and learn
a little more C before continuing on this task; C isn't that hard, but
it's not really a language you can use to write programs by trial and
error...)

</F>





From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 29 04:34:24 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:34:24 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>
	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:03:17 -0700, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
> wrote:
> 
>>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>>   ...
>>> Except if you can't read the file into memory because it's to large,
>>> there's a pretty good chance you won't be able to mmap it either.  To
>>> deal with huge files, the only option is to read the file in in
>>> chunks, count the occurences in each chunk, and then do some fiddling
>>> to deal with the pattern landing on a boundary.
>>
>>That's the kind of things generators are for...:
>>
>>def byblocks(f, blocksize, overlap):
>>    block = f.read(blocksize)
>>    yield block
>>    while block:
>>        block = block[-overlap:] + f.read(blocksize-overlap)
>>        if block: yield block
>>
>>Now, to look for a substring of length N in an open binary file f:
>>
>>f = open(whatever, 'b')
>>count = 0
>>for block in byblocks(f, 1024*1024, len(subst)-1):
>>    count += block.count(subst)
>>f.close()
>>
>>not much "fiddling" needed, as you can see, and what little "fiddling"
>>is needed is entirely encompassed by the generator...
>>
> Do I get a job at google if I find something wrong with the above? ;-)

Try it with a subst of length 1. Seems like you missed an opportunity :-)

Peter



From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 14:59:39 2005
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 11:59:39 -0700
Subject: reload fails if module not in sys.path
References: <1129849234.985211.141940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2329.1129853323.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129921178.951416.297910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> That's OK, but you may find fiddling with sys.path is more productive :-)

Yeah, that's what I'm doing and it works just fine.  When I stumbled
over this behavior yesterday it seemed (and still does) like a
low-priority bug in reload.  I was hoping a guru would reply with
something like, "Of course that's how it is.  If reload() tried to use
the __file__ attribute, a universe-ending paradox would ensue
because..."

Feh.



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 05:06:17 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 02:06:17 -0700
Subject: users of pycurl here?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1834.1128933630.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128698989.351313.90070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128930314.392590.99450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1834.1128933630.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128935177.788994.199870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Yes, it works fine, thanks (still I am a bit surprised there is not
ftpparse.py but only
an _ftpparse.so).

              Michele Simionato



From benzwt at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Oct 31 05:49:47 2005
From: benzwt at yahoo.com.tw (benz)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 02:49:47 -0800
Subject: process and spinning slash
In-Reply-To: <1h58mez.1jo7cnd1lilqm2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130690731.654048.157590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h58mez.1jo7cnd1lilqm2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130755787.946498.174010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I have rewrited my code as follow, but it still not working.

import os, sys


pid = os.fork()

if pid == 0:
  os.execvp("du",("du","-shc","/usr/share"))
else:
  while 1:
    try:
      os.kill(pid,0)
      sys.stdout.write('running')
      sys.stdout.flush()
      sys.stdout.write('\b\b\b\b\b\b\b')
    except OSError:
      print "child ended"



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct  4 08:55:41 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 12:55:41 GMT
Subject: dictionary interface
Message-ID: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

I'm writing a Tree class, which should behave a lot like a dictionary.

In order to test this, I took the unittest from the source distribution
for dictionaries and used it to test against my Tree class.

Things are working out rather well, but I stumbled on a problem.

this unittest tries to test for '==' and '<' operators. However I
couldn't find anything in the documentation that defined how
dictionaries should behave with respect to these operators.

For the moment the best I can come up with is something like
the following:

  class Tree:

    def __lt__(self, term):
      return set(self.iteritems()) < set(term.iteritems())

    def __eq__(self, term):
      return set(self.iteritems()) == set(term.iteritems())

Would this be a correct definition of the desired behaviour?

Anyone a reference?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 20 13:03:02 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:03:02 -0400
Subject: Searching for txt file and importing to ms access
References: <dj8f1r$do7$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Message-ID: <86br1kunnd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Mark Line" <mline at abilitec.com> writes:
> I'm managed to get some code to download a message from the email account 
> and save it to a text file, does any one have a link to some sample code to 
> search though a file until a string of characters is matched?  Or could 
> point me to some functions that may help me with this?

datafile = open("c:\\myfile.txt", "r")
data = datafile.read()
datafile.close()
start = data.index(myindicator)

will leave start as the index in data where the the string in
myindicator first appears. If you want the end of myendicator, use
start = data.find(myindicator) + len(myindicator).

Have you considered not saving the message to disk? You can manipulate
it all in memory.

> I've also managed to connect to my access database, and just print out a 
> field in a table, but I cant find anywhere on the web that will help me to 
> import data?  Any help would be great?!

Can't help with that. The phrase "win32com" comes to mind, but I'm not
a windows person.

  <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 17:41:00 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:41:00 -0700
Subject: lambda functions within list comprehensions
References: <1130621124.101346.67750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h57711.1t6uely1atckigN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Max Rybinsky <sunspire at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> >>> funcs = [lambda n: x * y / n for x, y in a]
   ...
> It seems, all functions have x and y set to 9.
> What's wrong with it? Is it a bug?

It's known as *late binding*: names x and y are looked up when the
lambda's body is executing, and at that time they're both set to the
value 9.  You appear to have expected *early binding*, with the names
being somehow looked up at the time the lambda keyword executed, but
that's just not Python semantics (and would interfere with many other
cases where late binding is exactly what one wants).

You've already indicated what's probably the best solution -- a factory
function instead of the lambda.  There are other ways to request early
binding, and since you appear to value compactness over clarity the most
compact way is probably:

funcs = [lambda n, x=x, y=y: x*y/n for x, y in a]

it's not perfect, because the resulting functions can take up to 3
arguments, so that if you called funcs[1](2,3) you'd get an unwanted
result rather than a TypeError exception.  If you're keen on getting the
exception in such cases, you can use a lambda factory in the same role
as the much clearer and more readable factory function you had (which I
keep thinking is the _sensible_ solution)...:

funcs = [ (lambda x,y: lambda n: x*y/n)(x,y) for x,y in a ]


Alex


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 18:38:52 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:38:52 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<m3ll0h8u2t.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djluqm$gkg$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <trm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djmc5t$lh3$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:trm233-0ut.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>> "Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

>>> The first two points are factually wrong, and the third is an opinion
>>> based on the concept, as far as I can see, that Microsoft should be
>>> allowed to do anything they like, even if those actions harm others.

>>     Of course this alleged "harm" is simply a lack of a benefit.

>>     Why is Burger King allowed to close at 10PM? That harms me when I'm
>> hungry after 10.

> They can close when they like because the policy is not discriminatory,
> nor is part of an attempt to manage the market. If they were to do
> things that harmed the market - such as telling meat suppliers that
> supplied them that they couldn't supply anyone else, that would be a
> possible candidate for anti-competitive behaviour suits. It would have
> to be shown that the arrangement WAS materially anti-competitive,
> though, and that's difficult to conceive of because MacDonalds does
> not constitute a major portion of the market demand for corned beef,
> so they don't have the leverage.

    In other words, who or what it harms is not the issue. Which was 
precisely my point. Private individuals and corporations are allowed to harm 
other people, so long as they don't violate the rights of those people when 
they do so, for example by using force or fraud.

    If a McDonald's opens across the street from my little burger joint 
family business, that hurts me. However, it isn't force, it isn't fraud, it 
doesn't violate rights, it's just part of life.

    Not even the amount of harm is at issue. Burger King firing someone for 
cause might result in their family going hungry.

    The issue is whether the action is within the scope of the actor's 
authority.

    DS




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 04:17:23 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:17:23 +0200
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
References: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1418.1128406275.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3qer81FeldcmU1@news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <dhtdqj$oag$1@sea.gmane.org>

David Murmann wrote:

> I ran into the same problem some time ago and even wanted to post here
> about it, but found out that it had been reported as a bug three times
> at sourceforge (if i remember correctly). The comments there explained
> it of course, but I still think that this behavior is somehow "wrong".
>
> I like to think of the import statement as a way to provide the names
> defined in a module to the current namespace, so there is no "this gets
> evaluated twice".

are you sure you understand the problem?  import does exactly what you
say; it creates a module object and populates it by running the code in the
module.

the problem is that when you hand Python a chunk of code (a script), it
doesn't necessarily know where it came from.  and even if you know the
filename it came from, there's no way to know if that chunk actually corre-
sponds to a module somewhere out there (the import system can map a
module name to a file, but it cannot map a file to a module name).

> Now i wonder how difficult it would be to "correct" the behavior?

there's no way to "fix" it without introducing a huge number of inconsistencies.

> And would such a change break any code?

any code that uses the "if __name__ == "__main__" pydiom, for a start.

</F> 





From ms at cerenity.org  Mon Oct  3 14:33:16 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:33:16 +0100
Subject: python getopt functionality
References: <mailman.1394.1128364052.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4341793e$0$49809$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

M.N.A.Smadi wrote:

> I have a perl script that I need to port to python. The script takes
> input from the command line.  Is there a standard way of processing
> command line arguments based on the -flag preceeding the argument?

Yes.

# pydoc getopt
Help on module getopt:

NAME
    getopt - Parser for command line options.

FILE
    /usr/lib/python2.4/getopt.py

MODULE DOCS
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-getopt.html
[ ... snip ... ]


Michael


From ggg at zzz.it  Wed Oct  5 08:17:20 2005
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:17:20 +0200
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>
	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <irsc13-65c.ln1@news.interplanet.it>

Python_it wrote:
> I know how to insert values in a database.
> That's not my problem!
> My problem is how i insert NULL values in de mysql-database.
> None is een object in Python and NULL not.
> None is not converted to NULL?
> Table shows None and not NULL!

None is converted to mysql's NULL and vice versa. It sounds
you are passing the *string* "None" to mysql, with it isn't
the same thing.

Adapting the Laszlo's example already posted:

cursor.execute("insert into tablename(fieldname) values (%s)", [None])

HTH.

-- 
deelan, #1 fan of adriana lima!
<http://www.deelan.com/>






From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 08:31:22 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:31:22 +0100
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
	<1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djl8iq$cir$1@sea.gmane.org>

jas wrote:
> So it seems there is no good way to handle "interactive" processes on
> windows using python.  By interactive I mean processes/commands that
> require user interaction, such as telnet or del (to delete a file or
> directory sometimes you need to confirm with a yes or no), date, etc.
> 
> os.system gives the exact behavior, but you can't redirec the output.
> pexpect isn't supported on windows.  Even with subprocess you can't
> handle all/most cases..since you have to do things like look for he
> prompt.
> 
> I modified the original suggestion so it would update the prompt, in
> case the user did a "cd.." ..which works fine now.  However, if a user
> tries to do, "del tmp123" ...windows prompts for a "are you sure you
> want to delete... Y/N?" ...so the code hangs.
> 
> I can't believe no one else has done this yet..or if they have, it
> hasn't been widely discussed.
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> 
Look at how you might do it in other languages. Then you'll realise this 
isn't (just) a Python problem.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 04:44:18 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:44:18 -0700
Subject: Tk
Message-ID: <1d987df30510280144k1a2a2565h77fa28dc58a22ac4@mail.gmail.com>

When I run the following code,
script kept running and I have to force it to stop.
Could you check the code to give suggestions how to improve it?
Thanks a lot!

from Tkinter import *
from Tkinter import _cnfmerge

class Dialog(Widget):
   def __init__(self, master=None, cnf={}, **kw):
       cnf = _cnfmerge((cnf, kw))
       self.widgetName = '__dialog__'
       Widget._setup(self, master, cnf)
       self.num = self.tk.getint(
               apply(self.tk.call,
                     ('tk_dialog', self._w,
                      cnf['title'], cnf['text'],
                      cnf['bitmap'], cnf['default'])
                     + cnf['strings']))
       try: Widget.destroy(self)
       except TclError: pass
   def destroy(self): pass

if __name__ == '__main__':

   q = Button(None, {'text': 'How are you',
                     Pack: {}})
   b1 = Listbox()
   b1.pack()

   c1 = Checkbutton(text="Check")
   c1.pack()

   q.mainloop()

from Tkinter import *
root =Tk()
menu=Menu(root)
root.config(menu=menu)
filemenu=Menu(menu)
menu.add_cascade(label="Test", menu=filemenu)
filemenu.add_command(label="Just Try")
filemenu.add_separator()
mainloop()


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 25 08:36:44 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:36:44 -0400
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Luidnc2OvoJ9u8PeRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>

uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com wrote:
> unfortunately the result from py2exe won't run eventhough the original
> script runs without problems. The trouble is I'm at a loss as to where
> to start looking!

Is there no exception traceback printed?  Or some other error when you 
run the .exe?  It would be very unusual to receive no error message of 
any kind.  If you are getting a message, please post the entire 
traceback/message here, as we can only guess what's happening.

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 16:20:49 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:20:49 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<dj0jtg$fj6$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <1h4lfof.1jirgzd1rpwucsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Christian Stapfer <nil at dev.nul> wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> > Christian Stapfer <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
> >
> >>  This is why we would like to have a way of (roughly)
> >> estimating the reasonableness of the outlines of a
> >> program's design in "armchair fashion" - i.e. without
> >> having to write any code and/or test harness.
> >
> > And we would also like to consume vast amounts of chocolate, while
> > similarly reclining in comfortable armchairs,
> 
> Maybe some of my inclination towards design
> based on suitable *theories* (instead of
> self-conditioning through testing) goes back
> to the fact that I tend to think about the
> design of my programs when no computer happens
> to be near at hand to do some such experimenting,
> or self-conditioning...

Oh, I am as prone as anybody I know to do SW architecture and design in
bed when the lights are off and I'm sliding into sleep -- just about the
only case in which no computer is handy, or, rather, in which it's
generally unwise to turn the computer on (since it would interfere with
the sleep thing;-).  Back before laptops were really affordable and
usable, I used to have a long bus commute, and did a lot of design with
pen and paper; and whiteboards are a popular group-design tool at
Google, no matter how many laptops or desktops happen to be around --
whiteboards are simply more suitable for "socialization" around a draft
design's sketch, than any computer-based tool I've ever seen.

But that's *design*, and most often in pretty early stages, too -- quite
a ways from *coding*.  At that stage, one doesn't even generally commit
to a specific programming language or other for the eventual
implementation of the components one's considering!  Rough ideas of
*EXPECTED* run-times (big-Theta) for various subcomponents one is
sketching are *MUCH* more interesting and important than "asymptotic 
worst-case for amounts of input tending to infinity" (big-O) -- for
example, where I sketch-in (mentally, on paper, or on whiteboard) a
"hash table" subcomponent, I consider the *expected* (Theta) performance
(constant-time lookups), definitely NOT the big-O "linear time" lookups
which just MIGHT occur (if, say, all inputs just happened to hash to the
same value)... otherwise, I'd never use hash tables, right?-)


> > without getting all fat and flabby.
> 
> Well, thinking can be hard work. There is no need
> to suggest an image of laziness. Thought experiments
> are also quite often successful. Hardware engineers
> can design very often entire gadgets without doing
> a great deal of testing. They usually need to resort
> to testing only if they know (or feel?) not to have
> a sufficiently clear *theoretical* grasp of the
> behavior of some part of their design.

Having been a hardware designer (of integrated circuits, for Texas
Instruments, and later briefly for IBM), before switching to software, I
can resolutely deny this assertion: only an utter madman would approve a
large production run of an IC who has not been EXTENSIVELY tested, in
simulations and quite possibly in breadboards and later in limited
pre-production runs.  And any larger "gadget" USING ICs would be
similarly crazy to skimp on prototyping, simulation, and other testing
-- because, as every HW engineer KNOWS (SW ones often have to learn the
hard way), the distance between theory and practice, in practice, is
much larger than the distance between practice and theory should be in
theory;-).


> >  Unfortunately, what we would like and what reality affords
> > are often pretty uncorrelated.  No matter how much theoreticians may
> > love big-O because it's (relatively) easy to compute, it still has two
> > failings which are often sufficient to rule out its sufficiency for any
> > "estimate [of] the reasonableness" of anything: [a] as we operate on
> > finite machines with finite wordsize, we may never be able reach
> > anywhere even remotely close to the "asymptotic" region where big-O has
> > some relationship to reality; [b] in many important cases, the
> > theoretical worst-case is almost impossible to characterize and hardly
> > ever reached in real life, so big-O is of no earthly use (and much
> > harder to compute measures such as big-Theta should be used for just
> > about any practical purpose).
> 
> But the fact remains that programmers, somewhat
> experienced with the interface a module offers,
> have a *rough*idea* of that computational complexity
> attaches to what operations of that interface.
> And having such a *rough*idea* helps them to
> design reasonably performing programs much more
> quickly.

A rough idea helps, particularly a rough idea of EXPECTED performance.

>   Big-Oh and other asymptotic complexity measures
> really do have *this* advantage over having
> acquired, by way of conditioning experiences,
> some such *rough*idea* of computational complexity:

No: big-O is NOT AT ALL a measure, rough or otherwise, of EXPECTED
performance.  It's *WORST-CASE*, by definition; and includes no
indications whatsoever of how close to the asymptote one can actually
get on a given finite-size machine.  By both issues, it can be totally
misleading -- and, "it's not what you don't know, that hurts... it's
what you know WHICH IS NOT SO".  By its MISLEADING characteristics,
big-O can be SERIOUSLY DAMAGING to the abilty of "designing on the back
of an envelope" (or in your head, or at a whiteboard).

> they capture at least some of that "rough idea"
> in a somewhat more easily communicable and much
> more precise fashion.

Entirely precise, and therefore, in such cases as quicksort and hash
tables (hardly "obscure corner cases" -- CENTRAL PILLARS of many
designs!!!) all that more misleading.


>   Maybe you and Steven prefer to be conditioned,
> Pavlov style, by the wonderful experiences that
> you get while testing? - This is perhaps really
> one of my *worst* psychological handicaps, I must
> admit: that I don't *like* to get conditioned
> like that, no matter how good it feels, no matter
> how effective it might be for "practical" work that
> one has to do.

I like to be able to reason FIRSTLY on the basis of EXPECTED, NORMAL
behavior, corrected in the first order by reasonable prudence and
caution, in the second order by accurate experimentation, and only in
the third order by considerations of worst-case scenarios -- the latter
normally tempered by estimates of their likelihood... which also
requires a rough understanding of CORRELATION between the causes of such
scenarios, which may be present, both directly or indirectly (assuming
that different components interacting in a system "may just happen" to
hit worst-case scenarios for each of them at once may be demonstrably
wrong in either direction -- and NO big-O analysis will ever help with
this crucial kind of task!).

>   I want to be able to really think *about* what
> I am doing. And in order to be able to think about
> it one usually needs some information about the
> implementation, performance wise, of the language
> features and the system modules that one might
> want to use. If you happen to know of any *better*
> way of offering the requisite information than
> asymptotic complexity measures then, of course,
> I am very grateful to hear more about it.

If you can't think about a design without knowing such details about one
specific implementation of one specific programming language in which
that design might get implemented, I think this strongly suggests you're
giving insufficient attention to the one crucial skill in a designer's
mental armory: *ABSTRACTION*.  There are many ways to cultivate one's
abstraction abilities.  One of my favorite pastimes is collecting
different renditions of Bach's "Art of the Fugue", for example: Bach
carefully abstracted away the information about which instrument(s) were
supposed to be playing which voice(s), as well as many other details --
because of this, the Art of the Fugue has the highest abstraction level
among all well-known musical compositions, and each rendition may take a
different concrete reading of it.  Learn to listen to them and be able
to tell what they have in common, and where they differ: it's a great
lesson in the understanding of abstraction.  But it's probably only
appropriate if you like music, and Baroque in particular; other arts and
discipline may no doubt afford similarly good learning experiences, if
you know where to look for them.

Once you're confident about your abilities of abstraction, I suggest you
continue by the exercise of *characterization* (of A FEW
implementations, ideally) which Jon Bentley (the programmer, not the
jazz player) suggests pretty close to the start of his masterpiece
"Writing Efficient Programs" (that great book may be hard to come by
these days, but the "Programming Pearls" books are also excellent and
communicate mostly the same messages, quite effectively).  Get a sense
for the *EXPECTED* (NOT "asymptotic", for your inputs will NOT tend to
infinity; NOT "worst-case only", don't be THAT pessimistic) behavior of
some primitive operations - the couple of pages I devote to the subject
in the Nutshell chapter on optimization, profiling and testing may
suffice.  Then refine your instinct by taking ONE complicated case, such
as the natural mergesort variant known as the timsort, and delving as
deep into its analysis as you dare -- characterize it as best you can
manage WITHOUT testing, simply by reasoning on its code (Tim's essay,
part of the Python source distribution, will be a helpful addition to a
thorought grounding in Knuth's chapter on sorting, for this purpose)...
then see what a difference it makes, to BE able to experiment!

You'll personally traverse, through such exercises, a curve not too
dissimilar from what the whole of Western thought went through in the
discovery and refinement of the experimental method (to some extent it
can be considered in full bloom in the thoughts and works of Galilei):
not the blind flailing around of pure trial and error (which HAD,
however, proved extremely fruitful in eliciting just about all technical
progress up to that age, and later), much less the ungrounded
elucubration of pure theoreticism (which HAD, mind you, given great
results once in a while, e.g. in Euclid, Nagarjuna, Archimedes...) --
but the powerful, fruitful merging of both strands into the incredibly
productive golden braid which has pulled progress up during the last few
centuries.


> > Consider, for example, point [b].  Quicksort's big-O is N squared,
> > suggesting that quicksort's no better than bubblesort or the like.  But
> > such a characterization is absurd.  A very naive Quicksort, picking its
> > pivot very systematically (e.g., always the first item), may hit its
> > worst case just as systematically and in cases of practical importance
> > (e.g., already-sorted data); but it takes just a little extra care (in
> > the pivot picking and a few side issues) to make the worst-case
> > occurrences into ones that will not occur in practice except when the
> > input data has been deliberately designed to damage by a clever and
> > determined adversary.
> >
> > Designing based on worst-case occurrences hardly ever makes
> > sense in any field of engineering,
> 
> What's wrong with wanting to have a rough idea
> of what might happen in the worst case? I believe
> many engineers are actually expected to think
> about at least some "worst-case" scenarios.

Not extrapolating to infinity.

> Think of nuclear reactors, airplanes, or
> telephone exchanges (and dont' think of Google
> for a change). Don't you expect engineers
> and scientists designing, for example, a nuclear
> reactor, to think hard about what the worst-case
> scenario might be? And how likely it might happen?

A square hit by an asteroid of mass tending to infinity?  No, I don't
expect nuclear reactors (nor anything else of human conception) to be
designed in consideration of what such an asteroid hit would do.  And
yet, that's *EXACTLY* what would be indicated by your theory of big-O as
a guide to design: consider the absolute worst that could conceivably
happen, with *NO* indications WHATSOEVER of how unlikely it might be
(because for simplicity of computation you take limits for misfortune
tending to infinity!!!), and design for THAT.

If our collective ancestors had taken this attitude, we'd still all be
huddling in deep caves (possibly a better protection against "dinosaurs'
killer" levels of asteroid hits!), shivering in the cold (fire is FAR
too dangerous to survive a worst-case analysis, particularly with
damaging elements all tending to infinity, as your love affair with
big-O based designs would certainly indicate!!!).  Animal skins?  Forget
it!!!  Do a perfectly pessimistic worst-case analysis with suitable
extrapolations to infinity and such skins would no doubt carry germs
enough to exterminate the budding human race (not that extinction might
not be preferable to the utterly miserable "lives" the few humans might
lead if "big-O" had guided their design concerns, mind you!-).


> (And *no* testing whatsoever in that direction,
> please!) Not thinking is, admittedly, a lot easier.

I would consider ANYBODY who built a nuclear reactor without AMPLE
testing dangerous enough for all of mankind to shoot on sight.  I would
expect HUGE amounts of simulation-based testing, followed and
interspersed by prototypes (smaller and simplified) to validate that the
simulations' tests are indeed perfectly respondent to actual reality.

I haven't seen anybody on this thread advocating "not thinking"; if
you're somehow implying that I'm trying to discourage people from
thinking IN USEFUL AND PRODUCTIVE WAYS, I challenge you to point to
anything I wrote here that could be construed that way.

> 
> <snip/>
> 
> > Why bother doing
> > (e.g.) random pivot selection in quicksort, when its big-O (i.e.,
> > worst-case) behavior will remain N-squared, just like naive quicksort,
> > or, for that matter, bubblesort?
> 
> Because worst-case is not the only measure of
> computational complexity that one might be
> interested in. For some applications one may
> be able to accept relatively bad worst-case
> behavior, if it doesn't happen too often.

But big-O, which is what you advocate, gives *NO* indication of how
likely or unlikely it might be, in particular -- a TERRIBLE failing.

> This is why for these people we might provide
> information about average case behavior (and
> then the difference between quicksort and
> bubblesort clearly shows).

Of COURSE you might!  Who, pray, is stopping you from so doing, except
perhaps your own laziness and the fact that you prefer to pontificate
about the work that OTHERS should (you believe) do for you FOR FREE, IN
ADDITION to the other work they're already so doing, rather than
constructively participating in the collective effort yourself?

You argued for big-O information, and now you're arguing for more
information (that's much harder to provide in mathematically rigorous
form) regarding "averages" (over WHAT distribution of input
permutations?  Why would you think that all permutations are equally
likely?  In the real world, they're not, but they ARE incredibly hard to
characterize -- you'd better pick a very specific, tiny subfield of
application for sorting, to be able to supply AMPLE experimental support
for your theories... theory without any experimentation to support it
can be worse than worthless, it can be truly DIS-informing!).  Very
well, if you're so convinced this information will be precious (worth
more than, say, the optimizations and new components which people might
alternatively produce, investing as they prefer their own time and
efforts), LEAD BY EXAMPLE.  Pick ONE relatively simple issue of
performance, and explore it to the level of breadth and depth you
believe "analytical" (as opposed to *experimental*) performance
characterization should go.

If you're willing to DO SOME WORK rather than SPEND YOUR TIME WHINING,
you will either produce some beautiful results whose practical
importance will stun others into following your lead, or find out that,
in the real world, there are more things in heaven and earth etc --
e.g., that behavior of virtual memory implementations SWAMPS any subtle
theoretical effects you thought would matter, for containers big enough
to matter, and well before getting anywhere close to the "asymptote" of
big-O and perhaps even big-Theta.

One way or another, something useful will be achieved, which surely
cannot be said about the present thread.


>   For others, such worst-case behavior may not
> be acceptable. For those other applications,
> a good worst-case may be what is required.
> This is why this second category of programmers
> needs to know about the worst-case. - But I am
> certainly belaboring the obvious...

You are (perhaps without realizing it) pointing out that the big-O
characterization which you originally demanded is basicaly useless to
everybody (considering that a system has several subcomponents, and the
conditions under which each reaches worst-case are NOT necessarily
uncorrelated but might be positively or negatively correlated!).  Except
perhaps theoreticians needing to publish theoretical papers, of
course;-).

 
> Of course, the programs that have been designed
> on the basis of such information can (and ought
> to be) tested. Then some surprises (*not* predicted
> by theory) might happen: but if they do not happen
> too often, theory has done a good job - and so has
> the programmer...

That would follow only if the total amount of work (properly accounting
for the huge amounts needed to collect "theoretically" sound
characterizations) was somehow reduced compared to alternative
approaches, based more on sound engineering practice and less on
reminescences of mathematics.

I believe that, out of all the iron suspension bridges designed and
built in the 19th century, ONE is standing -- the Brooklin Bridge.
Others were designed with "sounder theory" and (althought NOT real
"worst case analysis" -- none considered direct asteroid impacts, nor
did any designer "extrapolate to infinity"!!!-) tried to cover
"reasonable" worst cases as the best theory available to them afforded.
And they all went down in the following decades.

The designer of the Brooklin Bridge followed sound engineering practice:
he designed based on TYPICAL (NOT worst-case) behavior, supported by
small-scale prototypes, THEN, knowing perfectly well that he couldn't be
sure he knew exactly WHAT worst-case he needed to ward about... he
doubled the thickness of all steel ropes and load-bearing beams.  So,
HIS bridge is still standing (as is, say, Renzo Piano's airport terminal
building in Japan, where ALL Japanese buildings all around crumbled to
dust in a terrible earthquake... Piano may be an architect rather than
an engineer, but my respect for his craft knows no bounds).

I gather you want nuclear reactors, and programs, designed by the praxis
of all those OTHER suspension bridge designers of the 19th century; I
want them designed by the praxis by which the Brooklin Bridge was
designed.  But in this case, you have an excellent chance to prove me
wrong: just put some of your work where your mouth is!  And I'll be
quite happy to help, because, even if (as I surmise) the attempt at
theoretical characterization proves pragmatically unsuccessful (in terms
of actual usefulness, and specifically of "bang for the buck"), even
then, if serious work has been put towards it, an empirically important
result is obtained.

I suspect you'll just find half-assed excuses to shirk the work which
your suggestions imply, but for once I'd be happy to be proved wrong...


Alex


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  7 17:21:49 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:21:49 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<11kd19ajdtkoi6f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128709915.677e761b4ee3431140a6964c46a02b82@teranews>
	<mailman.1728.1128719692.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11kdpnd1vuc2oce@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

> Well, there's your problem. He learned from engineers. Engineers
> can't speak English.  I was instructed in my "Engineering Statics"
> class that a three-dimensional structure connecting non-coplanar
> points in space was called a "tetrahedragon".

Watch out for the fire-breathing kind.  They're especially
dangerous since they have multiple faces, so there's no
"behind" from which to sneak up upon them from... of... to.....

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Nipples, dimples,
                                  at               knuckles, NICKLES,
                               visi.com            wrinkles, pimples!!


From bonono at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 10:24:08 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 07:24:08 -0700
Subject: Psycopg2 date problems: "Can't adapt"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2362.1129904134.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2362.1129904134.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129904648.249591.40010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Is "None" a valid value for SQL ? Or should it be NULL ? May be it is
because your input is NULL which is being converted to None in python
but haven't been converted back to NULL on its way out.

Steve Holden wrote:
> I'm trying to copy data from an Access database to PostgreSQL, as the
> latter now appears to work well in the Windows environment. However I'm
> having trouble with date columns.
>
> The PostgreSQL table receiving the data has the following definition:
>
> CREATE TABLE Lines (
>    LinID SERIAL PRIMARY KEY,
>    LinDate   TIMESTAMP(0),
>    LinQty    INTEGER,
>    LinPrdID  INTEGER ,
>    LinPrice  NUMERIC(8,2),
>    LinInvoice INTEGER)
>
> Here's the problem in a nutshell:
>
>  >>> d
> <DateTime object for '2003-10-02 00:00:00.00' at af9be0>
>  >>> ocurs.execute("DELETE FROMI Lines")
>  >>> osql
> 'INSERT INTO Lines(LinID, LinDate, LinQty, LinPrdID, LinPrice,
> LinInvoice) VALUES(%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)'
>  >>> ocurs.execute(osql, (1, d, 1, 1, 12500.0, 88))
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<string>", line 1, in <string>
> psycopg.ProgrammingError: can't adapt
>  >>> ocurs.execute(osql, (1, None, 1, 1, 12500.0, 88))
>  >>>
>
> Since the date value's the only difference between the two, I deduce
> it's causing the problem.
>
> I'd rather not have to manipulate the data (in other words, I'd rather
> just change the definition of the receiving table to avoid the error if
> possible), as the copying operation attempts to be table-independent. It
> currently reads:
>
> for tbl, cols in d.items():
>      print "Copying", tbl
>      dsql = "DELETE FROM %s" % tbl
>      ocurs.execute(dsql)
>      isql = "SELECT %s FROM %s" % (", ".join(cols), tbl)
>      osql = "INSERT INTO %s(%s) VALUES(%s)" % (
>          tbl, ", ".join(cols), ", ".join("%s" for c in cols))
>      print isql, '\n', osql
>      icurs.execute(isql)
>      for row in icurs.fetchall():
>          ocurs.execute(osql, row)
>
> Though until I started stepping through the data row by row the last two
> lines were replaced by
>
>      ocurs.executemany(osql, icurs.fetchall())
>
> Who can help me past this little sticking point?
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Tue Oct 25 12:06:59 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:06:59 -0700
Subject: wxListbook layout problem
Message-ID: <1130256419.199548.313950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Probably some of you know the amazing demo application for wxPython.
When you open the Listbook demo in the
Core Windows/Contols folder, replace there wx.LB_DEFAULT by wx.LB_RIGHT
and resize the main window the listbox on the right side moves into the
area of colored panel. This is a surprise to say the least. Has anyone
of the GUI specialists an idea how to fix this?

Kay

PS. I tried this on WinXP only.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:37:25 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:37:25 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>
	<86psqfmukd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sghhk1hcom1adf7ic99j253bks1j54iqs4@4ax.com>
	<864q7rm1cb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cv3rk19thhpu11roiqnosmmoa6p3ao8qtc@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:28:04 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>What makes you think I don't have a copy of Opera? Just so happens
>I've got a registred copy on my newest computer.
>
>> Then try out the feature.  Click View | style | user
>
>My copy of Opera doesn't have that menu entry. I suspect you're making
>platform-specific suggestions.

Because you did not seem to be aware of the Opera features. I don't
know what version you have or what platform you are using.  The only
one I can help you with is Opera 8.5 for Windows.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 01:15:56 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 00:15:56 -0500
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
In-Reply-To: <878xxegrtx.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no> <dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>
	<878xxegrtx.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200510070015.56786.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 30 September 2005 04:37 pm, John J. Lee wrote:
> "Tor Erik S?nvisen" <tores at stud.cs.uit.no> writes:
> > Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google! 
> 
> How odd -- the most useful link (the viewcvs page for this source
> file) is the very first link for me when I search for socketmodule.c
> 
> Does google vary in its results across the globe?

Of course you meant to be snippy and sarcastic, but you've actually
exemplified the reason why so many people don't find such a thing
with Google.  Like all search engines, you have to know the right
keyword -- to a fair degree of precision -- in order to find what
you're looking for.

This is very unlike asking a question of a human being.  *People*
respond much better to general subject headings such as "socket
module" or "python sources" rather than looking for something
ultra-specific like a particular file name.  Researchers take this
training with them when they approach Google and treat it like
a magic librarian -- they give it the same thing they would come
to a human librarian with.

Of course, that shows they are less adept with machines than you
are, just as your reply shows you are less adept with humans.

Both sides could probably learn from the encounter. ;-)

Seriously, though, for anybody new to using search engines, it
is a very useful rule of thumb -- search for a specific word
likely to appear on the page you are looking for, and not
elsewhere.

This also shows where Google fails and newsgroups succeed: when
you know what you want, but don't know what it's called. Often,
all a poster really needs is the right keyword to use.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct 18 13:05:47 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 10:05:47 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1129655147.243235.294280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> All this extreme use of JS misses the point, it's client side
> programming all over again

This is so true, although I don't expect those people relentlessly
hyping "AJAX" to either realise the significance of that observation or
to necessarily make an accessible Web site for those people who, for
whatever reason, can't use the mountains of JavaScript that perform the
fancy fades and colour flashes that seem "de rigeur" in their "Web 2.0"
applications.

Here's an interesting perspective from outside the "AJAX clique":

http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2005/10/web-office-suites-rofl.html

(It even has a Monty Python reference, too.)

Paul



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 23 01:08:54 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:08:54 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <863bmsakgp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86k6g59ke6.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>>> Neither I, nor you, nor the government of any nation, should care a
>>>> monkey's toss specifically for Microsoft's success. Microsoft is one
>>>> special interest, out of a potentially unbounded number of possible
>>>> players in the economy of a country and the world.
>>>     No, not at all. It is the gravest act of self-contradiction to 
>>> maintain
>>> that one should be allowed to pursue one's own interest while denying 
>>> that
>>> same right to others.
>> Not at all. No one is denying anyones right to purssue their own
>> interest. What's being denied is the right to use illegal means to do
>> so. If MS restricted themselves to legal means, no one would have a
>> problem with them.
>     The conclusion that the means were illegal is predicated on the 
> definition of the relevent market as "desktop operating systems for 32-bit 
> x86 computers". Conduct is not illegal unless some law puts people on 
> adequate notice that their conduct is illegal. What law put Microsoft on 
> notice that the relevent market would be defined in the bizarre and almost 
> nonsensical way?

Not at all. The conclusion that the means were illegal was because
*they worked*. If MS didn't have monopoly power, the people they were
dealing with would have laughed at them.

>>>> Unless you or I are specifically shareholders in Microsoft, we should 
>>>> not
>>>> care about their specific success; and the government should be entirely
>>>> agnostic about who are the winners and losers in an economy.
>
>>>     We should certainly care that Microsoft be allowed to pursue their 
>>> own
>>> success. The government should be agnostic about who the winners and 
>>> losers
>>> are, but must respect each entity's right to attempt to be that winner.
>> Nice thought. Unfortunately, the government doesn't work that
>> way. They believe that a practical monopoly is a bad thing, and limit
>> the things such a company can do, and have been known to disassemble
>> companies they believe are harming the economy in general.
>     In other words, they believe the rights of Microsoft to do what they 
> please with what is theirs is subservient to some general obligation to help 
> the economy as a whole. I am saying that Microsoft has no obligaiton to the 
> economy as a whole but instead has an obligation to its stockholders. It 
> would be the gravest dereliction of that obligation for Microsoft to 
> sacrifice itself for some general benefit.

You do like straw men, don't you? Nowhere in the what I said does the
word "help" appear; you pulled it out of thin air, and what you said
in general has *nothing* to do with what you quoted above. The
statements don't contradict each other in any way, and both happen to
be true.

>>>> The
>>>> government's role should be to ensure a level playing field, and minimum
>>>> levels of health, safety and environmental standards. There is no place
>>>> for government giving special-interests like Microsoft favours.
>
>>>     The problem is, people complain when the playing field is in fact 
>>> level.
>>> For example, Microsoft's "exclusionary" Windows agreements didn't ask for
>>> more than Windows was worth (or nobody would have agreed to them). Yet 
>>> they
>>> are considered examples of the playing field not being level.
>> No, they didn't ask for more than Windows were worth. They tilted the
>> playing field against MS competitors by causing consumers to pay MS
>> money for products they didn't receive. In most countries, taking
>> money from unwilling victims without giving them anything in exchange
>> is called "theft".
>     It is not theft if you can simply say "no" to the deal and all that 
> happens is that you don't get the product. Your argument is preposterous. If 
> you accept arguments that equate guns with arguments, the next step is that 
> using a gun is a rational response to an argument one doesn't like. Oh wait, 
> you're already there.

Yup, we're there - and you brought us there, by referring to federal
judges as "criminals pointing guns".

Of course, there are lots more straw men in this argument. I didn't
mention guns at all - you manufactured that from nothing. Theft
doesn't have to involve guns. Hell, it doesn't even have to involve
the knowledge of the victim, which is the case here. Everyone buying a
system from those that MS bullied paid for an MS OS, whether they got
one or not, and wether they knew it or not - and MS got the
money. They didn't even realize they were being robbed, so saying "no"
was never an option.

>>>> Microsoft's behaviour over-all has been just as anti-social,
>>>> anti-competitive and harmful to the over-all running of the economy as a
>>>> hypothetical Walmart or Safeway that regularly parked their trucks in 
>>>> the
>>>> middle of the main road for a few hours while they unloaded.
>
>>>     The problem is, the government does not own the economy. So it does 
>>> not
>>> get to manage it the way it gets to manage the roads it in fact owns.
>
>> Sorry, but you're wrong. The government *does* own the econnomy.
>
>     If you believe that, then there is no reaching you with reason.
>> Who
>> do you think originally created all the money that is flowing through
>> it?
>     The government created a medium of exchange, but that is not the same as 
> saying it created the wealth that money represents. The government created 
> the money simply as a stand in for the wealth that was created by others.

Another straw man. Saying "the government owns the wealth that was
created by others" is not the same thing as saying "the government
owns the economy".

>> The government charges you for the privilege of participating in
>> their economy - it's called "income tax". 2000 years ago Christ knew
>> who owned the economy, and said "Render unto Ceaser that which is

>     The government charges you, notionally, for the services it provides. It 
> is somewhat silly to phrase as this as charging you for the privilege of 
> participating in *their* economy. I am familiar with just about every theory 
> for justifying government power, and I know of none that justifies a claim 
> of complete government ownership of the economy other than those that lead 
> to Communism or Totalitariansm.

Of course you aren't familiar with it. Statists seldom admit that
their system means the government owns the economy.

>>>> Maybe, just maybe, if Mom & Pop's Corner Store tried it once or twice, 
>>>> we
>>>> could afford to turn a blind eye, especially if the disruption caused by
>>>> towing their delivery van was greater than the disruption caused by 
>>>> their
>>>> double-parking. Thousands of people break the law by double-parking for 
>>>> a
>>>> few minutes, and society doesn't collapse. But something that we can
>>>> afford to ignore when done by M&P's Corner Store becomes a serious 
>>>> problem
>>>> if done by somebody with the economic power of Walmart, with their
>>>> thousands of deliveries by 18-wheelers every day across the country.
>>>     Again, the analogy fails. You are comparing the government's right to
>>> manage its own property with the government's "right" to interfere with
>>> other people's right to manage their property.
>> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
>> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
>> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
>> property, only they call it "property tax".
>     I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to 
> live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me 
> know.

You couldn't be more wrong. Then again, that's nothing new.

>>>     When a criminal willing to use force points a gun at your head, you 
>>> lie
>>> to him.
>> You sound like an anarchist to me. This wasn't a criminal, this was
>> the government. Lieing to random individuals isn't a crime. Lieing to
>> the government is.
>     If the government prosecutes people for crimes wherein there was no 
> notice whatsoever that their conduct was criminal, it is acting criminally 
> itself. Apparently, in your world the only alternatives are that the 
> government owns everything or that the government owns nothing. As soon as I 
> claim anything is beyond the government's power, I'm an anarchist in your 
> book.

Yet *another* straw man. I do hope you enjoy arguing with yourself. I
never said the government owning nothing was an alternative. Nor did I
say you were an anarchist.

>>>> In any case, even if you are right that Microsoft had no ideas... so 
>>>> what?
>>>> Ignorance of the law never has been an excuse for criminal behaviour. It
>>>> has always been every individual's responsibility to make sure that they
>>>> do not act illegally, and that goes for companies as well.
>
>>>     I am not saying Microsoft did not know the law. I am saying that no
>>> rational person could have expected the law to be applied to Microsoft 
>>> that
>>> way it was. The law *must* put a person on notice of precisely what 
>>> conduct
>>> it prohibits. However, in this case, the law's applicability was 
>>> conditioned
>>> on an abritrary and irrational choice of what the relevant market was.
>> MS has a long history of dancing with the DOJ, and has been repeatedly
>> warned about the legality - or lack thereof - of their behavior. No
>> rational person who knew of that history could expect the law to be
>> applied to MS in any way other than the way it was.
>     Since when does the DOJ get to make the law? (George Bush's claims to 
> the contrary not withstanding.) The issue is whether the *LAW* put Microsoft 
> on notice. A just law must itself put people on notice as to precisely what 
> conduct constitutes a violation of that law.

In that case, we hav an *awful* lot of unjust laws, because laws
seldom disallow "precise" behavior. Which is the only rational way for
a system of laws to work. Requiring that the law predict *everything*
that someone might do to harm others and explicitly listing all those
cases is silly. Instead, you outline a class of actions and tag them
all as illegal. That's why we have laws against assault and battery
and unsafe driving. And laws against exercising monopoly power in an
unfair manner.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From ms at cerenity.org  Sat Oct  8 08:17:51 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:17:51 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<bvmck1hab4go0atva6q9csnr3dp6eg7qdq@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1680.1128689636.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4347b8b9$0$15081$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
...
> Or is "the green tomato" also unacceptable?
> 

Of course it is. We all know* it should be "the green fried tomato", or "the
killer tomato". 

:-)

(is it me, or is the subject line for this thread silly? After all, what
accent would you expect from someone in the UK? However, that said, the
concept of a *single* British accent is a silly as the idea. Sillier even
than the suggestion that the two lines below are British vs American:

> American: Minnesota is behind 7-0.  The Vikings are behind 7-0.
> British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0.

Or even these lines:

> American: The war department has decided to cancel the program.
> British: The war department have decided to cancel the program.

A better one might be:
> British: "They installed tunnelling for the petrol pipes made of grey
> coloured aluminium." 
> American: "They installed tunneling for the gas pipes made of gray
> colored aluminum."

(I think :-) I do my best with grammar, but can fail spectactularly, more
often than I'd like :)

Bad grammar flies at the same speed as the pedants who decide that the way
that other people talk is wrong. If the majority of people use a language
one way, and a small number of people say "you're wrong", who's right? 

Is it the people who speak the language in a shared way that they all
understand, or the people who are setting rules based on how people *used*
to speak and *used* to define words? (NB, I *did* say majority above ;-)
Does /human/ language _require_ backwards compatibility?

;-)


Michael.



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 15:57:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:57:59 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86y84rxryr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<2R75f.2005$dO2.1121@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86mzl6yfko.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<nJb5f.3392$q%.714@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <861x2iy4vs.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86mzl6yfko.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>>> news:86y84rxryr.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>>>>> news:86fyqzzskt.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>>>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both
>>>>>>> irrelevant.
>>>>>> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser.
>>>>> Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), 
>>>>> that's
>>>>> not a feasible goal.
>>>> I guess you'd say developing any software isn't a feasible goal,
>>>> because it'll never be bug-free, will never have bug-free compilers to
>>>> compile it, bug-free linkers to link it, bug-free GUI/db/etc libraries
>>>> to link with it, bug-free servers to communicate with, and bug-free
>>>> operating systems to run it on. Fortunately, most developers aren't
>>>> quite that anal, and realize that you can get useful work done in a
>>>> less-than-perfect environment.
>>> I'm not speaking theroetically. My company (though not me personally)
>>> creates browser-based UIs, and one of the biggest expenses has been 
>>> dealing
>>> with IE rendering bugs   Given the market share of IE, the fact that
>>> something should work, and even does work in Firefox, Opera, etc, is
>>> irrelevant.  If it breaks IE, we can't use it.
>> Been there, done that, threw out the T-shirt as to ugly to wear.
>> Yes, you have to work around bugs in the popular browsers. That hasn't
>> changed since the first published specs showed up. That doesn't mean
>> you throw out the standards and only support a trivial set of
>> browsers.
> If you're working on a commercial product, it means you support IE (possibly 
> being able to insist on a specific patch level), Foxfire if you can, and 
> ignore the < 1% of the market that won't live with those restrictions. 

Just because you do things some way doesn't mean that's the only way
to do them, or even the right way to do them.

That's one way to do it. Didn't used to be, because the players have
changed.  Which is part of the cost of doing it that way - your
targets change as the publics taste changes.  It only works for a
specific market (though it's a very big one); should you decide to
expand into another market, you'll find your targets have changed
again.

One alternative, as I've said, is to write to the standards, and then
work around bugs in the popular browsers. If the public whim changes
which browser is most popular - it only has minimal impact on
you. Should you decide to move into a different market, your existing
development process works with only minor changes.

            <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Mon Oct 17 10:18:06 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:18:06 +0200
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h4knsn.1tihnpm15d5y4lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<slrndl6uur.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2162.1129546889.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dj0br2$9dn$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
<snip>
>> Why should the coder of this software have to go through this
>> deliberate set up attrition, to get at this functionality, just
>> because it wasn't intented to be used in such a way by the
>> developers?
>>
> Because otherwise people who know no better will use the feature for 
> purposes where it's not the best way to achieve the required 
> functionality, leading to yet more endless discussions about why "it 
> doesn't work". Asynchronous signalling between threads is an accident 
> waiting to happen in the hands of an inexperienced programmer.

I can't agree with that opinion. There's tons of features of existing 
programming languages and systems, Python included, that is pretty much 
guaranteed to be misused, and badly at that. We can't remove those just 
on the off chance someone might start a thread on a newsgroup about why 
this is or isn't the best way to do things. If we do that then I guess 
list comprehension is out the window because there's tons of posts (from 
me included) that get this wrong.

The point of a programming language is not to dumb down the environment 
to a point where it is impossible to write bad code. Instead it's about 
empowering the programmers to be able to accomplish their tasks.

In any case, this exception-in-another-thread problem has inherent 
issues which must be solved, among others:

- C extension code can't be interrupted
- an exception thrown at the wrong time in a finally/except block might 
cause more problems than it intends to solve

So until a good implementation exists, there shouldn't be any point in 
actually discussing the motives of the programmers who wishes to use the 
feature.

<snip>

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From paidhi at mospheira.net  Tue Oct 11 12:48:24 2005
From: paidhi at mospheira.net (Markus)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:48:24 +0200
Subject: Learning Python
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.10.22.11.08.173871@airmail.net>
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.22.11.08.173871@airmail.net>
Message-ID: <3b91a$434becd9$54728e3f$7120@news.chello.at>

I do highly recommend this site, too.
Listen to the python411 podcast shows. It's great.



Jeff Fox wrote:
> Lots of links to all levels of tutorials and documentation here:
> http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html
> 
> Python Podcast too!
> 
> 


From http  Fri Oct 14 09:47:43 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 06:47:43 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <IoCBKo.9xx@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <7xu0fkw6ps.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:
> Are there any examples of HTML email causing security problems - outside
> of Microsoft's software?

There was a pretty good one that went something like

  Click this link to download latest security patch!
   <a href=http://www.mxxxxxx.com.....>Microsoft Security Center</a>

where "mxxxxxx" is "microsoft" with the letter "i" replaced by some
exotic Unicode character that looks exactly like an ascii "i" in normal 
screen fonts.  The attacker had of course registered that domain and
put evil stuff there.

> Not so: you disable Java, Javascript and plugins.  You leave the ability 
> to format, colour and hint documents.  This is not /that/ difficult.

Don't forget disabling Unicode.  

What happens if you have a <meta redirect=....> tag in the html email
that tries to redirect the browser to some other url?


From apgwoz at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 21:09:45 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:09:45 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <200510031910.32684.sszmidt@netwvcom.com>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<200510031910.32684.sszmidt@netwvcom.com>
Message-ID: <EB38A4FA-D138-48F0-A347-7E8B04E3CA2A@gmail.com>




On Oct 3, 2005, at 7:10 PM, sszmidt at netwvcom.com wrote:

> On Monday 03 October 2005 11:50, Roel Schroeven wrote:
>
>> Peter Decker wrote:
>> Unfortunately AFAIK most of the popular mail clients don't offer a
>> 'Reply to list' button. Even mutt only offers that functionality  
>> of you
>>
>
> Of course if you have kmail it has full list support and allows you  
> to do
> that. This is my all time favorite email client.

I'm a huge fan of mutt myself, but I've been using Mail.app (which  
supports reply to all) but doesn't have very good list management, at  
least not that I know of. I do know that Smart Mailboxes have made it  
at least possible to have a small number of actual folders and a  
large number of smart mailboxes, which is very nice.

Anyone know of any good mailing list plugins for mail.app?

-
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org


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From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 13 06:56:32 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:56:32 +0200
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
	<3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de> <dil4t3$95o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<3r6p5oFhvtg1U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <dileg1$1t2$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>> The implementation is certainly a design decision. setdefault() could be
>> implemented in terms of __set/getitem__() as
>> 
>> def setdefault(self, key, value=None):
>>     try:
>>         return self[key]
>>     except KeyError:
>>         self[key] = value
>>         return self[key]
>> 
>> I guess it's not done for performance reasons.
> 
> Nope. What if you changed your default value? Then you'd have to update
> the whole dictionary - but without keeping track of the keys you placed
> the default value under that isn't possible. Which strikes me as
> more-than-marginal overhead - without any advantage (as using
> __setitem__ for the default value isn't something I consider being a
> missing feature...)

Are we talking about the same setdefault()?

setdefault(...)
    D.setdefault(k[,d]) -> D.get(k,d), also set D[k]=d if k not in D

There is no per-instance default value just on per call:

>>> d = {}
>>> d.setdefault("a", 1)
1
>>> d.setdefault("a", 42)
1

I'm sure there is a misunderstanding in our conversation, I'm just not able
to nail it...

Peter






From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Oct 11 08:37:08 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:37:08 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <434779F1.9080508@designaproduct.biz>
	<20051008172825.77615.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<di94lb$jd7$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1857.1128978809.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wzu0fo9qmj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> (TH) wrote:

>TH> He's got to be talking about runtime name-binding.  In
>TH> other words, when you refer to:

>TH> a.spam

>TH> the Python interpreter actually knows you labeled that attribute 'spam',
>TH> and the string is stored in a.__dict__ , so you can also access it as

>TH> getattr(a, 'spam')

>TH> etc.

>TH> I'm pretty sure this is what string "internment" is for, though, and
>TH> that such lookups are optimized out pretty much whenever possible.

In the case of getattr(a, 'spam') a string comparison for 'spam' has to be
done. AFAIK, in the case of a.spam the string 'spam' has been interned, so
that no string comparison is necessary at lookup, only a pointer
comparison. Due to hash collisions probably multiple comparisons could be
necessary. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Oct 12 01:50:55 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:50:55 -0700
Subject: piping out binaries properly
In-Reply-To: <86psqbwau8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
	<86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<gZmdnZ8LVpHPDdHeRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<86psqbwau8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <J6Kdnb2WPvqiOdHeRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> I watched the Unix world grow up, and it ain't normal to me.

Since there's no distinction between a file opened in binary mode and in 
text mode on Unix, there is no difference.

> I don't
> think I've ever written a program that wrote binary data to standard
> out, not in nearly 30 years of unix programming. I've written lots of
> things whose standard out was designed specifically to be read by
> another program, but never as binary data.

Plenty of applications use that functionality and depend on it.  See 
cjpeg, djpeg, the pbmplus library, and so forth.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Every human being is a problem in search of a solution.
   -- Ashley Montagu


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 10:29:30 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:29:30 -0000
Subject: Accessing a dll from Python
References: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lhuqar6sklqa0@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-20, dcrespo <dcrespo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can someone give me lights on how can I deal with dlls from python?

Use the ctypes module.

> My main purpose is to get access to a Unitech PT600 Bar Code system. I
> have the dll that works fine through Visual Basic. But I'm migrating to
> Python, so I need a way to use the same dll, or a C library.

ctypes can call dll functions using either C or Pascal calling
conventsions.

> I tried to access a dll created by myself on Visual Basic. The
> dll just have one function. It works perfect when using it on
> a VB project just including it in the references
> configuration. But I can't access it from python. I tried the
> ctypes module.

ctypes has always worked for me.

Sorry, I've no clue about anything VB-related unless it's
Victoria Bitter.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I have a VISION! It's
                                  at               a RANCID double-FISHWICH on
                               visi.com            an ENRICHED BUN!!


From http  Tue Oct 11 05:49:59 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 02:49:59 -0700
Subject: Learning Python
References: <mailman.1849.1128964843.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.11.09.26.57.24978@all.com>
Message-ID: <7xwtkkwfg8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Chris Dewin" <notrealaddress at all.com> writes:
> There was an excellent such primer on devshed, by Icarus, but they appear
> to have taken it down.
> 
> I saved a copy of it to my HD. Would there be anything morally, or legally
> wrong with me uploading it to my site?

A little googling shows it's still up at:

http://www.melonfire.com/community/columns/trog/print.php?id=94  part 1
http://www.melonfire.com/community/columns/trog/print.php?id=96  part 2


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 17:53:08 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:53:08 +0200
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3r83a5Fi1rt6U1@uni-berlin.de>

> Yes, that would describe just about every cpu for the past 30 years
> that's a plausible Python target.

No. The later 68K (>68020) could address on odd adresses. And AFAIK all 
x86 can because of their 8080 stemming.

Don't confuse this with 16Bit aligned addressing - _that_ is the minimum 
for years, and of course doing something like

move.l #1, d0   // move 4 byte ad immediate address 1 into data register 0

is a nightmare on runtime - but working, nontehless.

Diez


From moondusterone at comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 23:24:56 2005
From: moondusterone at comcast.net (moondusterone)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:24:56 -0500
Subject: Newbie needs help. Setting PYTHONDOCS to read HTML.
References: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>
	<1128995462.893750.155420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <L-qdnTPH8fMZrdbeRVn-gA@comcast.com>

Brett, I did that and now when I enter "keywords" I get a list of words. 
And it says that I can enter any of the words to get more help.  I enter 
"class" and I get "could not read docs from C:/Python24/ref/if.html".


"Brett Hoerner" <bretthoerner at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1128995462.893750.155420 at o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> You can use Python regardless of the docs... of course.  Not sure what
> you mean there.
>
> As far as setting an Environment Variable, though:
>
> (1) Right-Click My Computer, go to Properties
>
> (2) Go to the Advanced tab
>
> (3) Click Environment Variables (bottom middle-ish)
>
> (4) Under "User Variables" click New,
>
> (5)
> Variable name: PYTHONDOCS
> Variable value: C:\Python24
>
> Of course, the value needs to be the correct folder that you said you
> dropped the HTML docs into.
> 




From hydrol-eo at elsevier.com  Tue Oct 25 00:14:11 2005
From: hydrol-eo at elsevier.com (hydrol-eo at elsevier.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:14:11 -0700
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <20051024054435.F266D1E4004@bag.python.org>

The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment.

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	Content type:	application/octet-stream
This file was removed by Firewall.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:44:38 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:44:38 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129124677.976559.27790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Sorry about the double post...

anyhow, after putting in debug statements I found that it was crashing
when it called, free(result)....so I removed the free(result).

now it crashes when it gets to, b = GetVal(bString, count(bString,
","));

..any ideas?

Java and Swing wrote:
> Antoon,
>    I just saw that to.  I updated the code like so...
>
> static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> 	// this will store the result in a Python object
>   	PyObject *finalResult;
>
>   	// get arguments from Python
>   	char *result = 0;
>   	char *in= 0;
>       	char *aString = 0;
>   	char *bString = 0;
>   	MY_NUM *a = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1);  //
> the array will be 20 long
>   	MY_NUM *b = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1); //
> the array will be 20 long
>   	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
>   	if (!ok) return 0;
>
>   	// do work to get a and b
>   	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a MY_NUM * (a pointer
> to a MY_NUM array)
>   	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
>   	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
>
>   	// make function call, which returns a char *
>   	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
>
>   	// save result in Python string
>   	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
>
>   	// free memory
>   	PyMem_Free(a);
>   	PyMem_Free(b);
> 	free(aString);
>  	free(bString);
> 	free(result);
>
>   	// return the result as a Python string
>   	return finalResult;
>   }
>
> ..as you can see, i malloc'ed memory, and free'd the memory.  However,
> I still have python crashing (after only 3 successful calls to
> doStuff).  And yes, doStuff is a plain C function...nothing related to
> Python.
>
>
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
> > Op 2005-10-12, Java and Swing schreef <codecraig at gmail.com>:
> > > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> > > 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> > > 	PyObject *finalResult;
> > >
> > > 	// get arguments from Python
> > > 	char *result = 0;
> > > 	char *in= 0;
> > >     	char *aString = 0;
> > > 	char *bString = 0;
> > > 	MY_NUM *a;
> > > 	MY_NUM *b;
> > > 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> > > 	if (!ok) return 0;
> > >
> > > 	// do work to get a and b
> > > 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> > > 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> > > 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
> > >
> > > 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> > > 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
> > >
> > > 	// save result in Python string
> > > 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
> > >
> > > 	// free memory
> > > 	PyMem_Free(result);
> > > 	PyMem_Free(a);
> > > 	PyMem_Free(b);
> > >
> > > 	// return the result as a Python string
> > > 	return finalResult;
> > > }
> > >
> > > ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> > > call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> > > problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> > > actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> > > problem
> > > so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
> > >
> > > Any ideas?  Thanks!
> >
> > Well assuming your doStuff is a C function that knows nothing of python.
> > it might be the PyMem_Free(result).
> > http://docs.python.org/api/memoryInterface.html says the following:
> >
> > void PyMem_Free(void *p)
> >     Frees the memory block pointed to by p, which must have been
> >     returned by a previous call to PyMem_Malloc() or PyMem_Realloc().
> >     Otherwise, or if PyMem_Free(p) has been called before, undefined
> >     behavior occurs. If p is NULL, no operation is performed.
> >
> > But your result wasn't allocated by a PyMem_Malloc, it was returned
> > to you by a C function.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Antoon Pardon



From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:50:49 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:50:49 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <87acgxlr0y.fsf@ieee.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130237717.557334.277910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<87ll0hlu4c.fsf@ieee.org>
	<1130241945.093223.25210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<87acgxlr0y.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1130244649.735008.214570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

You did not quite understand me. I will give you some details:

My program is a compiler for a certain type of linguistic grammars.
I.e. the user gives *grammar files* to my program. When the grammar
files have been compiled, they can be applied to strings (of a certain
language, e.g. English).

In the grammar files, the user does not have to deal with "capturing
groups". He even does not have to deal with regular expressions. He
just writes a grammar of a certain type. My program then compiles the
grammar into a cascade of transducers. Each of the transducers is
internally represented as a pair (REGEX, ACTION), where REGEX is a
Python regular expression and ACTION a Python function. I.e.: The
meaning of the grammar is: For each line of the input string: if REGEX
matches the line, then apply ACTION to it.

On various levels, the user may produce *disjunctions*. At the time
being, these disjunctions are internally represented by something like:

if regex1: action1()
elif regex2: action2()
elif ...
eliif regexn: actionn()

It would be nicer (and faster) to have just one regex and run that
action A such that the *capturing group* with name A ("?P<A>...")
matched.

Now, I could of course internally create my very own transducers. But
the re module is a module that generates fsa and fsa do part of the
work that a transducer does. So why reinvent the wheel? 


J?rg



From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Wed Oct 19 06:54:44 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:54:44 -0000
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <3rmg5vFk5n2aU1@individual.net>

If I understand you right you need a concept in which you can put the files
of your project where you want, i.e. restructure the nesting of directories
storing your scripts without the problem of breaking the import statements.
This will give you not a solution to any problem you maybe have with
managing a large package but is a problem in itself, so I see that you have
a huge number of options to choose from:

1. best is you get a better structure of the project in your mind, so you
don't need frequent changes by resorting your modules into a various
directories (flat is better than nested). Set a size limit of a single
Python script it must reach before you split it into two separate files, so
that the number of your files decreases to a number you can handle with ease
(this depends on how good you are at it).

2. create e.g. an HTML file from which you can view, edit, execute the
scripts you have. In this file you create your nested structure and have
this way the overview you need. The Python files remain in one directory
storing the entire project. This allows you to keep together what belongs
together, but to work with it as the single files were spread over many
categories (I mean directories :).

3. create a Python script which automatically creates an HTML file giving
you the overview of all your scripts from walking the directories your
project files are stored below and put in each of your scripts a function
which on call returns the actual full path of passed name of the file to
import and updates the Python PATH, so that it can be found (e.g
updatePATH('nameOfTheModuleToImport')

4. start to choose from many tools for project management which will keep
you busy for a while and away from the actual work on your project ...

None of these above can solve the supposed actual problem, that the project
grows beyond the capacity to manage it in mind. I know about this limitation
and I have seen programmers failing on projects with increasing size of
them. Usually the dependencies between the single modules in large projects
get more and more complicated. Each next added module making the project
size larger must work with the entire already existing ones and after a
given size of project is reached it becomes really hard (and for some just
impossible) to add a new module to it making the necessary modifications to
existing ones in order to gain the new functionality. Such modifications
result usually in breaks in other parts of the project and in my eyes no
management system can really help in anticipating it at that point. Every
programmer seems to have a limit of a project size he can manage and in my
opinion no tool for structuring it or getting a better overview is of real
help here. The core of the problem is lack of skills required for managing
large projects and it seems, that not everyone who managed to learn to
program is able to acquire this skills necessary to increase the size of a
project over the by his intellectual capacity given limits. That is why
programmer need to work in teams and have a very good manager able to
coordinate their efforts in order to succeed in creating large applications.
In really large projects it is sometimes necessary to work half a year or
more full time on the existing library of code before becoming capable of
writing a single line of additional one.

Publish your code, let others work with it, try to get responses on it and
you will probably get much more out of this than by asking for ways of
managing it.

I am curious if others on this newsgroup agree with what I said above, so I
would be glad to hear about it.

Claudio



"TokiDoki" <neuromancer at wanadoo.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dj492l$3hf$1 at apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net...
> Hello there,
>
> I have been programming python for a little while, now. But as I am
> beginning to do more complex stuff, I am running into small organization
> problems.
> It is possible that what I want to obtain is not possible, but I would
> like the advice of more experienced python programmers.
>
> I am writing a relatively complex program in python that has now around
> 40 files.
> At first, I had all of my files in one single directory, but now, with
> the increasing number of files, it is becoming hard to browse my
directory.
> So, I would want to be able to divide the files between 8 directory,
> according to their purpose. The problem is that it breaks the 'import's
>    between my files. And besides,AFAIK, there is no easy way to import a
> file that is not in a subdirectory of the current file (I suppose I
> could adjust the os.path in every file, but that seems not very elegant
> to me).
> I thought about turning the whole into a package. But I have to change
> every 'import module_name' into
> 'from package_name.sub_directory_name import module_name'
> which is a little bit time consuming and not very flexible (if I change
> my mind about the subdirectory a file belongs to, I will have to track
> again every import to correct them)
>
> So, basically, here is the point: is there an 'elegant' way to keep my
> files in separate directory and still be able to import between them
> with simple 'import filename'?
>
> And if not, what would be the standard way to organize numerous python
> files belonging to the same project?
>
> Thank you,
>
> TokiDoki




From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 16:27:38 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Clint Norton)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 13:27:38 -0700
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128889658.433627.35320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

BTW do yourself a favor and learn to use the cmd module:

2 nice examples:
http://www.eskimo.com/~jet/python/examples/cmd/

it will also give you command completion if your termianl supports it
(most terminals on most linux distros do).



From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Fri Oct  7 08:59:30 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:59:30 -0400
Subject: Can't extend function type
In-Reply-To: <3qmpnjFfp2h3U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3qmpnjFfp2h3U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <di5rfm$isc$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>> Oh well.  I had wanted to be able to define two functions f and g, and
>> have f*g be the composition of f and g.
>>
>>     >>> func_type = type(lambda: None)
>>     >>> class composable_function(func_type):
>>     ...   def __mult__(f,g):
>>     ...     def c(*args, **kw):
>>     ...       return f(g(*args, **kw))
>>     ...     return c
>>     ...
>>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>     TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
>>         type 'function' is not an acceptable base type
>>     >>>
>>
>> Seems like a wart to me.
> 
> So the only way to achieve this with current semantics is to make f anf 
> g objects with a call methods. In that very moment, you're done - as 
> extending from object is no problem :)
> 
> 
> class ComposeableFunction(object):
> 
>     def __call__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>     return self.second(self.first(*args, **kwargs))

Note, with a little bit of massaging, you can turn ComposableFunction 
into a decorator, for more natural function definition:

(Untested, I'm not on a system with Py2.4 at the moment):
class Composable(object):
     def __init__(self,f):
         self.callable = f
     def __call__(self,*args, **kwargs):
         return self.callable(*args, **kwargs)
     def __mul__(self,other):
         return Composable(lambda (*a, **kwa): self.callable(other(*a, 
**kwa)))

Usage:

@Composable
def f(x):
     return x**2

@Composable
def g(x):
     return x+1

# And we shouldn't even need a @Composable on the last in the sequence
def h(x):
     return x/2.0

 >>>f(1)
1
 >>>(f*g)(1)
4
 >>>(f*g*h)(2)
4

This might not combine neatly with methods, however; the bound/unbound 
method magic is still mostly voodoo to me.


From python at NOSPAMwieditleest.isgek.nl  Thu Oct 27 15:41:04 2005
From: python at NOSPAMwieditleest.isgek.nl (edw!n)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:41:04 +0200
Subject: NEWBIE
References: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43612d7c$0$20234$dbd49001@news.wanadoo.nl>

If you're a complete newbie.. Try the tutorials at www.hetland.org. And
maybe change them for a book when your eyes get sour with reading ;)

I just started programming in python myself and i must say that it pleases
me so far. Don't know what your programming experience is, but mine is
limited to some BASIC and Pascal years and years ago.

One of the things that i actually like about it, is solving the puzzles
myself.. It's a nice solitary way to keep myself busy when i don't feel
like reading.

Find some tutorials online, maybe get a book. Buy one, maybe get one from
the library and write some code until you get so stuck that you won't be
able to solve it yourself anymore. Then maybe ask for help... I think it's
more fun this way :P


From mwpippin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 18:28:27 2005
From: mwpippin at gmail.com (Mike Pippin)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:28:27 -0400
Subject: System tray Icon
Message-ID: <c1967eb90510221528r59f620fexe606fef05b276192@mail.gmail.com>

How would I have an app run with just a system tray Icon??? any help would
be greatly appreciated. I have no clue where to start.
-------------- next part --------------
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From jenkins.justin at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 06:50:24 2005
From: jenkins.justin at gmail.com (jenkins.justin at gmail.com)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 03:50:24 -0800
Subject: parsing a tuple in embedded python
Message-ID: <1130673024.215437.53520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am returning a tuple from my python method and am stuck trying to
figure out how to read it into a C array using PyArg_Parse.
My C Code:
int array[3];
PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", &array);

My Python Code:
mytuple = (1,2,3)
return mytuple

That gives me a segmentation fault. What am I doing wrong?



From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 22:20:41 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:20:41 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<slrndlo3ku.1ir.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>
Message-ID: <djhgdp$tjb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Alan Connor" <i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid> wrote in message 
news:slrndlo3ku.1ir.i3x9mdw at b29x3m.invalid...

> AC

    You wouldn't be this Alan Connor would you:

http://www.killfile.org/dungeon/why/connor.html

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 05:04:37 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:04:37 +0100
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
In-Reply-To: <0ABD1968-3CE4-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>
References: <0ABD1968-3CE4-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <divpf3$30m$1@sea.gmane.org>

David Pratt wrote:
> I am working with a text format that advises to strip any ascii control 
> characters (0 - 30) as part of parsing data and also the ascii pipe 
> character (124) from the data. I think many of these characters are 
> from a different time. Since I have never seen most of these characters 
> in text I am not sure how these first 30 control characters are all 
> represented (other than say tab (\t), newline(\n), line return(\r) ) so 
> what should I do to remove these characters if they are ever 
> encountered. Many thanks.

You will find the ord() function useful: control characters all have 
ord(c) < 32.

You can also use the chr() function to return a character whose ord() is 
a specific value, and you can use hex escapes to include arbitrary 
control characters in string literals:

   myString = "\x00\x01\x02"

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From buffer_88 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 15 11:10:52 2005
From: buffer_88 at hotmail.com (George)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 08:10:52 -0700
Subject: XML dom question
In-Reply-To: <1129344063.eb6990d4cd74331d8defb9b71b046420@teranews>
References: <1129339019.065675.314480@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129344063.eb6990d4cd74331d8defb9b71b046420@teranews>
Message-ID: <1129389052.945619.56170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Yes but I cannot get the if statement to work to compare the two or the
replaceChild portion to work. Could someone help me with that.



From themightydoyle at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 23:43:05 2005
From: themightydoyle at gmail.com (themightydoyle at gmail.com)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 20:43:05 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I also need an answer to this problem.  I'm using windows.  Throwing an
exception in thread B from thread A using a callback function.

The function runs, but the thread never actually catches the exception.
 The try/except block is in the run() method (over-riden from the
Thread class)



From gt_mac at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 19:04:06 2005
From: gt_mac at yahoo.com (gt_mac at yahoo.com)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 16:04:06 -0700
Subject: Python adodb
Message-ID: <1129158246.494302.140670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

In trying to use the adodb module, I have had good success. However I
need to access a database with a username and password at this time.
And cannot find a way to do it without using a ODBC or other older
techniques. Can someone help me with this, below is the code I am
currently attempting to use. I am just not sure where to place the
username and password information or how to pull this from a text file.

import mx.ODBC.Windows
import adodb
import win32com.client

con = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Connection')
DSN = 'Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=c:/test.mdb;'
con.Open(DSN)
rs = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Recordset')
rs_name = 'testtbl' 
rs.Open("SELECT * FROM testtbl", con)



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 07:24:35 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:24:35 +1000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:01:21 +0100, Steve Holden wrote:

> and yes, I split that infinitive just to 
> annoy any pedants who may be reading

*Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the
grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are
impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid
them in English.

The linguist Steven Pinker calls the sort of people who claim split
infinitives are bad English "language mavens", and he doesn't mean it as
a compliment. See, for example, chapter 12 in his book "The Language
Instinct".


[snip]
> "Some village in Texas is missing their idiot".
> 
> Several people defended this, saying that a village could use the plural 
> possessive "their". 

"Several people" being the idiots missed by the villages? :-)

> I personally found it odd (and essentially 
> non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should 
> be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So
> 
> "Some village in Texas are missing their idiot"
> 
> would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only the idiot 
> alluded to would say), 

Absolutely. "Some villages" would work, but not village singular.

> while my preferred choice would be
> 
> "Some village in Texas is missing its idiot".

Yes, that's the puppy.

I think where the people are getting confused is that it is (arguably)
acceptable to use "their" in place of "his or her", as in:

"Should the purchaser lose their warranty card..."

Some of the more conservative grammarians argue against that construction,
many accept it in informal speech or writing but not formal, and a few
(like myself!) argue that it is time to get with the 21st century and just
accept it even in formal language. If it was good enough for Willie
Shakespeare, it is good enough for me.


-- 
Steven.



From bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au  Thu Oct 20 02:38:07 2005
From: bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:38:07 +1000 (EST)
Subject: How to extract a part of html file
References: <pan.2005.10.20.05.36.36.987442@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <dj7e0f$b74$1@rose.polar.local>

Joe <dinamo99 at lycos.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to extract part of html code from a tag to a tag

For tag soup, use BeautifulSoup:

    <URL:http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/>

Available as a package in Debian, probably other decent OSen also.

-- 
 \         "I think it would be a good idea."  -- Mahatma Gandhi (when |
  `\                    asked what he thought of Western civilization) |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From peter at commonlawgov.org  Fri Oct 14 09:15:02 2005
From: peter at commonlawgov.org (Peter)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:15:02 -0700
Subject: my array subset method could be improved?
In-Reply-To: <dio954$4a1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
References: <dio954$4a1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <434FAF56.5060403@commonlawgov.org>

Jim O'D wrote:

>Hi all
>
>I have an array a=array([2,3,1]).
>
>I want to extract an array with all the elements of a that are less than 0.
>
>Method 1.
>new = array([i for i in a if i < 0])
>
>Method 2.
>new = a[nonzero(a<0)]
>
>I'm using Numeric arrays but can't seem to find a function that does this.
>
>Am I missing a more obvious way to do it quickly?
>
>Thanks
>
>Jim
>  
>
You could use filter (which is planned to be removed in Py3000). E.g. 
"array(filter(lambda x: x < 0, (-1, 2, -4, 5, 55, 9, -73, 5)))"

I tend to like "array(i for i in (-1, 2, -4, 5, 55, 9, -73, 5) if i < 
0)" better though. (And its even shorter).

HTH,
Peter



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 04:47:15 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:47:15 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<11kj8ghonmialfc@corp.supernews.com>
	<o43rk198ujcqtvccet1blsmfte71vd0gt6@4ax.com>
	<op.syj5sdgy43pcxb@jukebox.roscopeco> <IoJq7n.G9z@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ldd9l1d63isli0bplei50bj2gphsi35tod@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:59:47 GMT, Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote
or quoted :

>Essentially, IM can do pretty-much everything email can these days, but 
>the reverse is not true at all.

The problem with IM is the various IM schemes don't talk to each
other.  You need a client that knows all the IM protocols.  But that
seems to be happening with Jabber and Trillian.

You have too much reliance on a central server. You have to trust the
relaying company.  I think it is time that nearly all mail was
routinely and transparently end to end encrypted, with the exception
of long enclosures that are explicitly marked not confidential.

You still have spam to a lesser extent and strangers just wanting to
talk.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct  1 20:44:28 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:44:28 +1000
Subject: Class Help
References: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.02.00.44.27.694869@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:58:45 -0400, Ivan Shevanski wrote:

> To continue with my previous problems, now I'm trying out classes.  But I 
> have a problem (which I bet is easily solveable) that I really don't get.  
> The numerous tutorials I've looked at just confsed me.For intance:

[code snipped]


You have to keep in mind the difference between a class and an instance of
a class. To make an analogy with real life, a class is like the idea of
"dogs in general" and an instance is a specific dog (like Ol' Yella, or
Rin Tin Tin, or or that little beagle on the Enterprise).

Normally you create a class, then make one or more instance of the class,
and work with the instances.

Some terminology for you to learn: when you create a function inside a
class, it is called a class method, or just method. Functions and methods
are not exactly the same, but for now the differences don't concern us.

So, you create a class with a single method:

class Klass:
    def spam(self):
        return "spam " * 5

Notice that the first argument of the method is always "self", even when
you don't need any arguments.

Klass is an object, and you can call Klass.spam() if you like, but it will
fail because you haven't included an argument for self. self must be an
instance of Klass. So you could do this:

spam_maker = Klass()  # create an instance
print Klass.spam(spam_maker)

which will print "spam spam spam " as expected.

But that's doing extra work. Once you have your instance, you can just
call the method as if it were a normal function:

print spam_maker.spam()

and it will work the way you expect it to. Behind the scenes, Python
passes a copy of spam_maker to spam_maker.spam() for you. It can do that
because spam_maker is an instance.

A class is a description of how a type of object should work, but you
normally don't work directly on that high-level description. Normally you
will work with individual instances, not the class itself. When Timmy
falls down the well, you tell Rin Tin Tin to go get help, not "dogs in
the general".

Python built in objects like lists, strings, ints etc are special types of
classes built into the language. Here is how we might create a (very
inefficient!) Python implementation of list:

class MyList:

    # Class attributes:

    left_delimiter = "["
    right_delimiter = "]"
    item_delimiter = ", "

    # Class methods:

    def __init__(self, *arguments):
        """Create a new instance and fill it with arguments."""
        self.data = arguments  # create an instance attribute
    def __str__(self):
        """Convert instance to a string for printing."""
        holder = self.left_delimiter
        for item in self.data:
            holder = holder + str(item) + self.item_delimiter
        holder = holder + self.right_delimiter
        return holder
    def append(self, obj):
        """Append an object to the instance."""
        self.data.append(obj)
    # real lists have many more methods...



Hope this helps.


-- 
Steven.




From andrew.markebo at comhem.se  Wed Oct 12 03:35:56 2005
From: andrew.markebo at comhem.se (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:35:56 +0200
Subject: HELP: Searching File Manager written in Python
References: <1129037968.366932.144250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m33bn7kx0j.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>

Checked Total Commander? 

Has an sort of open API to plugins, and either do a python 'proxy' or
maybe just execute a script.

Next step might be using win32com or SWIG to set up the interface..

Just some ideas.

     /Andy
-- 
 Everything that was magical was just a way of describing the world in
words it couldn't ignore.
				- "Pyramids" by Terry Pratchett



From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct  8 15:54:17 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:54:17 -0000
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11kg8v992fn9830@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-08, Alex <lidenalex at yahoo.se> wrote:
> My native language is not English so I just wonder how you pronounce
> wxPython.
>
> vi-ex python
> double-you-ex python
> wax-python

The second one.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  HELLO, everybody,
                                  at               I'm a HUMAN!!
                               visi.com            


From chris at kateandchris.net  Tue Oct 18 13:27:53 2005
From: chris at kateandchris.net (Chris Lambacher)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:27:53 -0400
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
In-Reply-To: <22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20051018172753.GD27125@kateandchris.net>

I would second that.  I use Vim for editing.  I find I don't need an IDE (not
even for C/C++).  Vim does everything I need.  If I want a debugger I will use
the shell debugger.  Most other things can be added to Vim, though I tend to
run with very few plugins.

-Chris


On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 05:12:30PM +0000, Ron Adam wrote:
> What features are you looking for.  I think most Vim users just add what 
> they want to Vim.
> 


From no at spam  Sun Oct  2 17:54:05 2005
From: no at spam (D H)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:54:05 -0500
Subject: Parrot & Python ? 
In-Reply-To: <4340393e$0$16536$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <4340393e$0$16536$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <W5qdnWzLZLucyt3eRVn-2Q@comcast.com>

Do Re Mi chel La Si Do wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> On the site of Amber :  http://xamber.org/index.html
> We can to view the sentence : "Parrot version of Python"
> Question :  what is "Parrot version of Python" ?
> 

Parrot is a virtual machine runtime, like the java vm or .NET CLR.
http://www.parrotcode.org/
People are working on making various scripting languages run on top of 
the parrot vm, like the Amber language you found, and python 
http://pirate.tangentcode.com/ and Lua 
http://members.home.nl/joeijoei/parrot/


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Tue Oct  4 19:02:08 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 00:02:08 +0100
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
In-Reply-To: <7xslvi1d4p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xslvi1d4p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050000370.13409@urchin.earth.li>

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, it was written:

> "leo" <leomendoza at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I come from a java background, where Exceptions are a big Avoid Me, but 
>> are the performance implications the same in Python?
>
> Well, you could measure it experimentally pretty easily, but anyway, 
> Python exceptions are much less expensive than Java exceptions.

Really? How come? What is it that stops java using the same technique as 
python? There's been quite a lot of work put into making java fast, so 
it'd be interesting if we had something they didn't.

tom

-- 
What we learn about is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our methods of questioning. -- Werner Heisenberg


From ryanwilcox at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 11:18:27 2005
From: ryanwilcox at gmail.com (Ryan Wilcox)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 08:18:27 -0700
Subject: passing variable arguments to a function
Message-ID: <1129216706.981025.17750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hello all,

I want to be able to pass a variable number of parameters into a Python
function. Now, I know how to _receive_ variable arguments, but I don't
know how to _send_ them.

def myFunction(*args):
    print args

myList = [1, 2, 3, 4]
myFunction(myList)

this function will print out ([1, 2, 3, 4]).

Except that's not what I want. I want the equivalent to:

myFunction(1, 2, 3, 4)

So, given an array, how can I unpack the array and pass all of the
elements into a Python function as parameters?

Thanks in advance!,
_Ryan Wilcox



From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 17 22:43:16 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:43:16 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<divdik$vmj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<dj1flg$njb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86h8l15n3odeetug7j231fi9rb3jrauo7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj1ng4$qbn$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:86h8l15n3odeetug7j231fi9rb3jrauo7h at 4ax.com...

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:29:36 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    By the way, this is based on the same flawed premise that a lot of
>>post-Y2K griping was based on. It went like this, "wow, we get all 
>>concerned
>>and spent all this money on a problem that never even happened". Well,
>>perhaps it didn't happen because we were all concerned and spent all this
>>money on it.

> The worry was that the work would not be completed in time. The work
> had to be done or the programs would simply stop working.  There was
> no way to avoid the expense.

    I understand why the argument is invalid. I'm presenting it as an 
example of a similar invalid argument.

    DS




From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 15:51:16 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (zhu_dave)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:51:16 -0000
Subject: Name Lookups
Message-ID: <diegnk+od72@eGroups.com>

Hello All,

I would like to gather some information on Python's performance. As far as I understand, it 
deals with a lot of string objects. It looks up all names. 
- Is there a way to find out how many name look up operations take place in a Python 
program?
- Is it the name lookup operation or hash operation that degrades performance?
- What function does Python use for name lookup operations? Is it the lookdict function in
Objects/dictobject.c?

Thank you for your help!





From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct 12 04:02:28 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:02:28 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r3u8kFhhsqmU1@uni-berlin.de>

Rune Strand wrote:
> I Steve,
> 
> I know it's several ways to isolate the filename. I just want to avoid
> the overhead of importing sys or os  to achieve it.

What overhead? Besides: if you want to do python this, why don't we 
introduce the function

solve_my_problems()

that is the only thing a programmer has to invoke... Seriously: Just 
because you have a usecase for __filename__ doesn't mean everybody else has.

> Currently I have this in my scripts:
> __filename__ = __file__.replace('\\', '/').rsplit('/', 1)[-1]

This is neither platform independent nor less "overhead". This is:

import os
__filname__ = os.path.split(__file__)[-1]



Diez


From johnjsal at NOSPAMgmail.com  Wed Oct 26 11:38:50 2005
From: johnjsal at NOSPAMgmail.com (John Salerno)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:38:50 GMT
Subject: suggestions between these two books
In-Reply-To: <1130340553.001869.67000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
	<mailman.2607.1130339640.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130340553.001869.67000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eqN7f.1246$No6.28691@news.tufts.edu>

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I should mention that I misspoke 
when I said I'm new to programming. I've actually been learning C# for 
the past few months, and I'm fairly familiar with a lot of programming 
basics. I just wanted to make sure no one recommended an "Expert" level 
book!  :)

Basically I'd like an intro to the Python language/syntax. I don't 
necessarily need to know how everything works under the hood just yet. 
It seems Learning Python might be good for that. I get the feeling that 
Beginning Python starts out with the basics but quickly escalates.



rpdooling at gmail.com wrote:
> Many different opinions on books. But if you are learning programming
> and learning Python, you can't beat the online book: How To Think Like
> A Computer Scientist: Learning Pythong
> 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
> 
> It's concise and well-written.
> 
> rd
> 


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 05:30:49 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:30:49 +0200
Subject: python gc performance in large apps
References: <43594BD5.7050104@u20.org>
	<20051024174640.GB17848@kateandchris.net>
Message-ID: <djku0b$bg3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Robby Dermody wrote:

> In the diagrams above, one can see the night-day separation clearly. At
> night, the memory usage growth seemed to all but stop, but with the
> increased call volume of the day, it started shooting off again. When I
> first started gathering this data, I was hoping for a logarithmic curve,
> but at least after 48 hours, it looks like the usage increase is almost
> linear. (Although logarithmic may still be the case after it exceeds a
> gig or two of used memory. :) I'm not sure if this is something that I
> should expect from the current gc, and when it would stop.

I don't think the GC has much to do with this; it's a lot more likely that you
have growing memory structures (in-memory logs, memo caches, etc) some-
where in your application.

adding some code that calls gc.get_objects() and dumps the N largest lists
and dictionaries might help.  something like (untested):

import gc, repr, sys

def gc_check(objects):

    def check(objects):
        lists = []
        dicts = []
        for i in objects:
            if isinstance(i, list): lists.append((len(i), i))
            elif isinstance(i, dict): dicts.append((len(i), i))
        lists.sort(); lists.reverse()
        for n, i in lists[:20]:
            print "LIST", n, repr.repr(i)
        dicts.sort(); dicts.reverse()
        for i in dicts[:20]:
            print "DICT", n, repr.repr(i)

    try:
        check(objects)
    except:
        print "error in gc_check", sys.exc_info()
        try:
            # clear exception state (even if exc_clear doesn't exist ;-)
            sys.exc_clear()
        except AttributeError:
            pass

(tweak as necessary)

and call this like

    gc_check(gc.get_objects())

at regular intervals.  if you have any constantly growing containers in your
application, they will most likely appear in the output rather quickly.

</F> 





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Oct 21 07:55:11 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:55:11 -0500
Subject: TK question
In-Reply-To: <1129870831.440710.125870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129860960.909273.68840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2333.1129863057.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129870831.440710.125870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051021115511.GA13597@unpythonic.net>

In the FileDialog module there are both LoadFileDialog and SaveFileDialog.  Is
the latter what you want?

Jeff
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From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 29 22:27:45 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 02:27:45 GMT
Subject: How do I sort these?
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43642b1b.1315475223@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:00:42 +0100, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>KraftDiner wrote:
>> I have two lists.
>> I want to sort by a value in the first list and have the second list
>> sorted as well... Any suggestions on how I should/could do this?
>> 
> >>> first = [1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 2, 4, 6, 8]
> >>> second = ['one', 'three', 'five', 'seven', 'nine', 'two', 'four', 
>'six', 'eight']
> >>> both = zip(first, second)
> >>> both.sort()
> >>> [b[0] for b in both]
>[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
> >>> [b[1] for b in both]
>['one', 'two', 'three', 'four', 'five', 'six', 'seven', 'eight', 'nine']
> >>>
>
>You mean like this?
ISTM there could be a subtle requirement in the way the OP stated what he wanted to do.
I.e., it sounds like he would like to sort the first list and have a second list undergo
the same shuffling as was required to sort the first. That's different from having the
data of the second participate in the sort as order-determining data, if equals in the
first list are not to be re-ordered:

 >>> first = [2]*5 + [1]*5
 >>> first
 [2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
 >>> sorted(first)
 [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]
 >>> second = [chr(ord('A')+i) for i in xrange(9,-1,-1)]
 >>> second
 ['J', 'I', 'H', 'G', 'F', 'E', 'D', 'C', 'B', 'A']
 >>> sorted(second)
 ['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'F', 'G', 'H', 'I', 'J']

Now the zipped sort unzipped:
 >>> zip(*sorted(zip(first,second)))
 [(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2), ('A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'F', 'G', 'H', 'I', 'J')]

Now suppose we sort the first and use the elements' indices to preserve order where equal
 >>> sorted((f,i) for i,f in enumerate(first))
 [(1, 5), (1, 6), (1, 7), (1, 8), (1, 9), (2, 0), (2, 1), (2, 2), (2, 3), (2, 4)]

Separate out the first list elements:
 >>> [t[0] for t in sorted((f,i) for i,f in enumerate(first))]
 [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]

Now select from the second list, by first-element position correspondence:
 >>> [second[t[1]] for t in sorted((f,i) for i,f in enumerate(first))]
 ['E', 'D', 'C', 'B', 'A', 'J', 'I', 'H', 'G', 'F']

Which did the OP really want? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From francois.lepoutre at caramail.com  Wed Oct 19 10:22:42 2005
From: francois.lepoutre at caramail.com (Francois Lepoutre)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:22:42 +0200
Subject: Dealing with Excel
In-Reply-To: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4356557c$0$19431$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net>

Robert Hicks wrote:
> I need to pull data out of Oracle and stuff it into an Excel
> spreadsheet. What modules have you used to interface with Excel and
> would you recommend it?
> 
> Robert
> 

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyexcelerator/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyxlwriter/

We use the latter one in the past. As long as
your output is plain enough. It's effective
and MS-free.

The former should be more powerful. Not tested
here.

Hope this helps

Francois


From stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de  Fri Oct 28 17:52:55 2005
From: stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de (Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:52:55 +0200
Subject: newstyle classes and __getattribute__
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2692.1130535774.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <4362977f$0$7227$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<mailman.2692.1130535774.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43629DB7.7050605@freenet.de>

James Stroud schrieb:
> On Friday 28 October 2005 14:26, Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens wrote:
> 
>>Hi there,
> 
> [..clip..]
> 
>>Now, I do this:
>>
>>class T(object):
>>	def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
>>		self.name=name
>>		self.port=port
>>	def __getattribute__(self,key):
>>		if key=='somekey':
>>			return None
> 
> [..snip..]
> 
>>But, then surprise:
>> >>> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
>> >>> dir(t)
>>
>>[]
>>
>>What the hell is going wrong here ?
> 
> 
> __getattribute__ is returning None in all cases and dir() is converting None 
> to [].
> 
> Anyway, you should have done this:
> 
> py> class T(object):
> ....     def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
> ....             self.name=name
> ....     def __getattribute__(self,key):
> ....             if key=='somekey':
> ....                     return None
> ....             else:
> ....               return object.__getattribute__(self, key)
> ....
> py> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
> py> dir(t)
> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', 
> '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', 
> '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__', 'name']
> 
> James
> 
Sorry, but I am right that you explicitly call a "super" 
__getattribute__ on object and pass it a reference to self and the
desired key ?
Only asking for clarification ...

But why does that work under 2.4.1, and even under ActiveState's 2.4.1 ?
Was that changed between those 2 releases ?
Intuitive behaviour of __getattribute__ would be:
If a key is not handeld in that function, return what you already got.

Cheers,
Stefan



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Thu Oct  6 16:45:48 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:45:48 -0700
Subject: So far (about editing tools)
In-Reply-To: <48D17FEA-3E2D-46CA-AEB4-86EA1CFACCB1@sbcglobal.net>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
	<48D17FEA-3E2D-46CA-AEB4-86EA1CFACCB1@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20051006204548.GH32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 06, Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> The only _real_ problem is the eclipse learning curve.

The only real *advantage* of Eclipse (over other suggested tools) is its
highly hyped automatic refactoring.  Admittedly, I have not used it for
Python development, but I'm skeptical of the feasibility of
auto-refactoring in general, and therefore acknowledge *no* advantage.
Furthermore, Eclipse requires java and is thusly not provided on any
linux distro I'm familiar with, which I consider a huge roadblock.  And
as mentioned, it's bloated.

> But, given  that eclipse will be around for a _long_ time, and given
> how nicely  PyDev is coming along, I actually expect this to become
> the de facto  standard Python editor (though it will take a while).

Was this a troll??  If so, you got me to bite.  I haven't heard a
feature mentioned in this thread that can't be done at least as easily
with a capable text editor like vim or emacs.

I'm not trying to start another editor war here.  They tend to have a
steeper learning curve than IDEs, but in my experience are largely worth
the learning investment.  I just wanted to say that I really doubt the
possibility of Eclipse becoming anywhere near standard, given any amount
of time.

I would suspect that the majority of Python programmers write in one of
vim or emacs. Anyone got stats?

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Oct 26 10:58:45 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:58:45 -0500
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A7@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
References: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A7@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
Message-ID: <17247.39333.185168.857090@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Tim> I am quite well aware of all of the ways you mention of recalling
    Tim> history etc. etc. When I've tried using them, they all seem
    Tim> tiresomely cumbersome ...

That's not at all surprising (at least not to me).  An important point to
realize is that readline's command recall is by default switchable between
Emacs-like key bindings and VI-like key bindings.  (If you're familiar with
readline's configuration file, I suspect you can make it resemble other
editors as well.)  If you're unfamiliar with either vi or Emacs, you're
likely to find either mode combersome.  For someone who regularly uses one
or the other, they are quite natural.  I speak as someone who has used Emacs
of one variety or another for over 20 years.  For me, readline's key
bindings "just work".

Skip


From see at signature.invalid  Sun Oct  2 21:45:40 2005
From: see at signature.invalid (Nigel Rowe)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:45:40 +1000
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
References: <mailman.1357.1128292457.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11k13a57dtm2u0d@news.supernews.com>

David Pratt wrote:

> Hi.  Is anyone aware of any python based unacceptable language filter
> code to scan and detect bad language in text from uploads etc.
> 
> Many thanks.
> David

You might be able to adapt languagetool. 
http://www.danielnaber.de/languagetool/features.html

Later versions have been ported to Java, but the old python version of
languagetool is at http://tkltrans.sourceforge.net/#r03

His thesis paper is at
http://www.danielnaber.de/languagetool/download/style_and_grammar_checker.pdf

Mind you, given the poor language skills of many native english speakers
(not to mention those for whom english is a second language) relying on
automated filters to enforce 'good' language seems a trifle extreme.  This
post for example would probably not pass.

Cheers,
        Nigel

PS. For the humour impaired, this g*d d*mm post was a f*cking joke, OK! :-)

Mind you, the links are real.

-- 
        Nigel Rowe
        A pox upon the spammers that make me write my address like..
                rho (snail) swiftdsl (stop) com (stop) au


From mark at markroseman.com  Thu Oct 13 17:02:53 2005
From: mark at markroseman.com (Mark Roseman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:02:53 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <mark-0C9352.17025313102005@news.isp.giganews.com>

 Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> However, Tkinter not most people's favorite, because the widgets look
> crude, they don't resemble the native widgets of any popular platform,
> and the widget set is somewhat limited.


People should probably be more aware of work that has been going on with 
Tk recently (after a fairly long hiatus) in terms of greatly improving 
its appearance, adding theming, and more.  It's worth checking out, and 
of course, if there's a way to help get some of these changes into 
Tkinter, the Tk folks would I'm sure be helpful. 

Here's a portion of a note that Jeff Hobbs posted to the Ruby group 
recently, on a similar topic:


> From: Jeff Hobbs <jeffh at removethis.activestate.com>
> Subject: Re: The definitive GUI for Ruby
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:02:46 -0700
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.ruby
> Message-ID: <43441546.2040307 at removethis.activestate.com>
>
> Eustaquio Rangel de Oliveira J wrote:
> > Tk is still too ugly for make programmers that are
> > migrating. :-)
>
> Tk is only ugly if that's the way you like it.  You have a
> full set of themed widgets available now that give you
> native look and feel, with all the same dynamic control and
> general ease of use that Tk has always provided.  All this
> on Aqua, Win32 and X11 (even Windows/CE).  Some screenshots
> of Tk apps that try not to be ugly:
>
> The Perl Dev Kit and Tcl Dev Kit UIs:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/PDK/6.0/PerlApp_gui.html#perlapp_gui_configuring_perlapp_build_parameters
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/Tcl_Dev_Kit/3.2/TclVFSE.html
>
> Tk on Win/CE (I know that the Perl/Tcl::Tk use this too):
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/8442
>
> Coccinella:
> http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben/
> http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben/examples/index.html
>
> An installer builder:
> http://installbase.sourceforge.net/screenshots.shtml
>
> An example of improving a Tk app by "going native":
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/14522


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 15 11:39:39 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:39:39 -0400
Subject: Accessing Parallel Port in Python Error : Priviledged Instruction
In-Reply-To: <1129344902.717940.57730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129344902.717940.57730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <maKdnTbC_v4zv8zeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>

guenais at yahoo.com wrote:
> When I use Pyparallel to access the parallel port in WinXP with Python
> I get an error saying that this is a priviledged instruction
> 
> Any clue ?

Here's a clue: please always cut and paste the *entire actual* traceback 
when you report a Python error.

If it's not a Python traceback, spend the time to retype -- carefully -- 
the exact text from the dialog where the error was reported.  If it's 
one of those awful Windows crash dialogs with reams of useless 
information, spend some time thinking about what portion of that would 
be most likely to be of help to us, if you can't retype all of it.

Also consider reporting on version numbers of things: Python, 
Pyparallel, WinXP (SP2 for example?), just in case that matters.

-Peter


From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 04:36:57 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 01:36:57 -0700
Subject: "dynamical" importing
Message-ID: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I need to import modules from user defined paths. I.e. I want to do
something
like:

module_dir = sys.argv[1]

my_path = os.path.join(module_dir, 'bin', 'my_module')

from my_path import my_object

Obviously, it doesn't work this way. How would it work?

J?rg Schuster



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Fri Oct 28 16:33:06 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:33:06 +0200
Subject: OpenSSL in Python
References: <1130425810.431748.39660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm52ja.e43.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

dcrespo enlightened us with:
> I've been looking for OpenSSL for python. I found pyOpenSSL, but it
> requires the OpenSSL library, which I only found on
> http://www.openssl.org/, but don't know how to install.

Ehm... wouldn't your question then not be more appropriate on the
OpenSSL newsgroup/mailinglist/forum/whatever?

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 24 10:32:19 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:32:19 -0000
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>
	<868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11liivcbmeops4b@corp.supernews.com>
	<opsy44qyjyrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
Message-ID: <11lps3jj9a7h62c@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-24, Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:

>> The only think you can export an environment variable to is a
>> child process
>
> Well, you know that, and I know that too. From my experience,
> many people don't...

True.  Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
of what's obvious and what isn't.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My face is new, my
                                  at               license is expired, and I'm
                               visi.com            under a doctor's care!!!!


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Oct 13 14:10:31 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 11:10:31 -0700
Subject: form filling XML
References: <1129223327.031069.163820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129227031.759806.120490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

George wrote:
>

[form]

> <li>Monday</li>
> <li>Tuesday</li>
> <li>Wednesday</li>
> <li>Thursday</li>
> <li>Friday</li>

[fillin]

> <dutchdays>
> <Monday>maandag</Monday>
> <Tuesday>dinsdag</Tuesday>
> <Wednesday>woensdag</Wednesday>

[...]

> How can I compare the text in the element tags <li> with the elements
> tags in filling and if they match replace the text within the elements
> tags <li> with the text in the matching element tag of fillin.

You need to first get each of the li elements in form - something which
is best done using XPath:

from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
import xml.xpath
form_doc = parseString(form)
for li in xml.xpath.Evaluate("//li", form_doc):
    Do something with the element.

Here, the XPath expression "//li" means "get all li elements in the
document". When you're examining an li element, you need to get the
textual content in order to find out which day it is you want to
replace. I recommend the following:

li.normalize()
day_text = li.childNodes[0]
day_str = day_text.nodeValue

With this, you have the string value of the day (rather than some
node), and can then go looking for that day's Dutch translation in the
other document using similar techniques. Since you look for the
translation for each li element, you're going to be using nested loops
rather than a single one.

I hope this gets you started on the problem, anyway!

Paul



From raims at dot.com  Thu Oct 27 10:31:31 2005
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:31:31 +0200
Subject: SOAPpy module
References: <mailman.7578.1130403602.508.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2629.1130405423.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndm1p63.bep.raims@voodoo.myself>

Il 2005-10-27, Alvin A. Delagon <adelagon at gmail.com> ha scritto:
> Has anyone experienced this? I'm googling like crazy these past few 
> weeks just to find a solution to this predicament. Thank you in advance! 
>:-)

Don't know very much about it, but... did you ask on the mailing list?


-- 
Lawrence
http://www.oluyede.org/blog


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 26 05:40:40 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:40:40 +0200
Subject: replace words
References: <1130310159.632687.295020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djnit5$3ab$00$1@news.t-online.com>

hagai26 at gmail.com wrote:

> What is the way for replacing in a string from . to . the sentence?
> for example:
> "been .taken.  it may be .left. there,
> even if the .live coals were not. cleared"
> I want to do this-> replace(\.(.*)\.,\.start (1) end\.)
> result:
> "been .start taken end.  it may be .start left end. there,
> even if the .start live coals were not end. cleared"

Use \1 to refer to the group in the substitution expression.
You also need to change the regex to non-greedy match (the trailing ?).
Otherwise you only get one big match from .taken ... not.

import re
s = ("been .taken.  it may be .left. there, "
     "even if the .live coals were not. cleared")

r = re.compile(r"\.(.*?)\.")
print r.sub(r".start \1 end.", s)

Peter



From sunspire at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 18:16:59 2005
From: sunspire at gmail.com (Max Rybinsky)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 15:16:59 -0700
Subject: lambda functions within list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <1h57711.1t6uely1atckigN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130621124.101346.67750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57711.1t6uely1atckigN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130624219.667062.290740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for explanation, Alex.
It appears that almost every beginner to Python gets in trouble with
this ...feature. :)



From apgwoz at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 08:24:35 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:24:35 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
Message-ID: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>

Is it just me, or does python-list at python.org not send with a Reply- 
To header?


---
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org




From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 29 16:10:11 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:10:11 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <dk0fd5$i1o$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>	<djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<4363b997.1286415918@news.oz.net>
	<dk0fd5$i1o$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <dk0kv2$rff$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> 
>>What struck me was
>>
>>
>>>>> gen = byblocks(StringIO.StringIO('no'),1024,len('end?')-1)
>>>>> [gen.next() for i in xrange(10)]
>>
>>['no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no']
> 
> 
> Ouch. Seems like I spotted the subtle cornercase error and missed the big
> one.
> 

No, you just realised subconsciously that we'd all spot the obvious one 
and decided to point out the bug that would remain after the obvious one 
had been fixed.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Wed Oct 19 14:43:14 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 11:43:14 -0700
Subject: Xul - Python
Message-ID: <1129747394.549898.174060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Nufox.
You can give a try with Firefox or Mozilla on
http://www.salvatore.exolia.net:9090/


Regards



From espen at localhost.localdomain  Thu Oct 27 13:35:52 2005
From: espen at localhost.localdomain (Espen Myrland)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 19:35:52 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>     What is an "illegal monopoly"?


The opposite of a "legal monopoly". For example, in Norway we have 
"Vinmonopolet", a monopoly which are the only one allowed to sell 
wine and spirits to the public. 



-- 
espen


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 04:30:17 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:30:17 +0200
Subject: users of pycurl here?
References: <1128698989.351313.90070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><mailman.1704.1128701123.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128930314.392590.99450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <did8qq$oc9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> the README says "for a usage example, see the sanity.py test
> script" but there is not such a script in the distribution :-(

looks like a distutils glitch...  try this one:

# $Id$
# minimal sanity check

import string

TESTS = [
    "# examples taken from ftpparse.c",
    "+i8388621.29609,m824255902,/,\tdev",
    "+i8388621.44468,m839956783,r,s10376,\tRFCEPLF",
    "-rw-r--r--   1 root     other        531 Jan 29 03:26 README",
    "dr-xr-xr-x   2 root     other        512 Apr  8  1994 etc",
    "dr-xr-xr-x   2 root     512 Apr  8  1994 etc",
    "lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     other          7 Jan 25 00:17 bin -> usr/bin",
    "04-27-00  09:09PM       <DIR>          licensed",
    "07-18-00  10:16AM       <DIR>          pub",
    "04-14-00  03:47PM                  589 readme.htm",
]

import _ftpparse

# parse sample strings
for line in TESTS:
    print repr(line), "->"
    try:
        item = _ftpparse.parse(line)
    except ValueError:
        print "***", "cannot parse this line"
    else:
        print "   ", (item.name, item.size, item.mtime, item.id, item.trycwd)

# check behaviour for unknown attributes
try:
    item.unknown
except AttributeError:
    pass

# end

on my machine, this prints:

'# examples taken from ftpparse.c' ->
*** cannot parse this line
'+i8388621.29609,m824255902,/,\tdev' ->
    ('dev', None, 824255902, '8388621.29609', True)
'+i8388621.44468,m839956783,r,s10376,\tRFCEPLF' ->
    ('RFCEPLF', 10376, 839956783, '8388621.44468', False)
'-rw-r--r--   1 root     other        531 Jan 29 03:26 README' ->
    ('README', 531, 1106969160, None, False)
'dr-xr-xr-x   2 root     other        512 Apr  8  1994 etc' ->
    ('etc', 512, 765763200, None, True)
'dr-xr-xr-x   2 root     512 Apr  8  1994 etc' ->
    ('etc', 512, 765763200, None, True)
'lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     other          7 Jan 25 00:17 bin -> usr/bin' ->
    ('bin', 7, 1106612220, None, True)
'04-27-00  09:09PM       <DIR>          licensed' ->
    ('licensed', None, 956869740, None, True)
'07-18-00  10:16AM       <DIR>          pub' ->
    ('pub', None, 963915360, None, True)
'04-14-00  03:47PM                  589 readme.htm' ->
    ('readme.htm', 589, 955727220, None, False)

</F>





From http  Thu Oct  6 05:05:59 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Oct 2005 02:05:59 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk9i4u.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E760DB0AAEEduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7xwtkr10co.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> writes:
> The value XML_NAMESPACE was imported from xml.dom, but the xml package is 
> kind of weird. XML_NAMESPACE defined both in xml.dom and in the 
> _xmlplus.dom package. The _xmlplus package is conditionally imported by the 
> xml package, and completely replaces it, but only if _xmlplus is present 
> and at least version 0.8.4 (older versions are ignored).
> 
> This is precisely the kind of flexibility which gives Python a lot of its 
> power, but it means that you cannot tell without running the code which 
> package actually provides xml.dom.

This sounds like the socket module, which is a total mess.  Library
code should not be written like that.


From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Sun Oct 16 20:42:00 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:42:00 -0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org><3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list at python.org...
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
> > "Kenneth McDonald" <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> > news:mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list at python.org...
> >
> >>Thanks for reminding me of Gtk. OK, add that to the list.
> >>
> >>The Web Browser interface is good for simple things, and will get better
> >>with CSS2's adoption, but they still don't have a good way for important
> >>things like interactive styled text, key bindings, etc. Good for
> >>simple things
> >>(for which I use them), not for more complex stuff.
> >
> >
> > I don't fully understand your attitude here. The Web Browser interface
has
> > all I can imagine is required for a GUI, so what is missing when you
> > consider, that you can generate custom images on the fly on the server
and
> > let the user shape the page without requesting CPU power from the server
> > using JavaScript.
>
> In this case then, I'm afraid the failure is in your imagination :-)

Any useful hints towards enlightenment except criticism?

>
> > I don't even name here the not really beeing itegral part of Internet
> > Browsers JavaApplets and any other kind of plugin stuff.
> > The only issue I can see with this approach is the speed of responding
to
> > user interactions, but for really optimize this one needs a compiled
> > language anyway.
> > What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser
as a
> > GUI?
> > Do I miss here something?
> >
> While you are correct in saying (I paraphrase) that HTML interfaces
> nowadays can offer a rich graphical interface, it can be quite difficult
> to manage state maintenance between the two components (web server, web
> client) in the system.

The cause of confusion here is, that HTML interfaces don't necessary need a
web server and HTTP to work. I mean, that Internet Browsers
have an API which allow access to them directly, so they can be used without
a server as a kind of GUI library supporting widgets programmed
in HTML and JavaScript  (I haven't used them yet in this form, but I think
it should be no problem - right or not?).

>
> A "proper" GUI runs all functionality inside a single process, and
> allows much easier control over complex interactions, creation of
> dynamic dialogues, and so on.
Complex and dynamic is in my eyes possible with HTML and JavaScript, so I
still don't see where is a problem with this approach. I have programmed
already a HTML and JavaScript driven server platform and know about (the
solvable) problems with the back-button and sessions (it is sure not the
easiest way of programming a GUI).
The only disadvantage of not using plugins or Java is, that real time
interactions are not possible, but this is in my eyes usually not the
requirement for a standard kind of GUI with no gaming, no Virtual Reality
and no timing of user response down to milliseconds (but consider, that with
a good speed of connection it is even possible to play blitz chess over the
Internet).

Claudio
>
> regards
>   Steve
> -- 
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/
>





From pu at pmville.com  Thu Oct 27 06:25:18 2005
From: pu at pmville.com (Ask)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:25:18 +1000
Subject: Hi All - Newby 
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
	<435deb2c$0$652$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <435ebf0a@news1.veridas.net>
	<5nr0m1l6b8jllon8pmhhv9a94h3ke4ib7o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4360ab19$1@news1.veridas.net>

Hi TIm,

Ahh I see.. (Told you I was a newby!)  ;-)

Tkinter is what I'm using as that was loaded by default with the 
installation of Python I am using.

Thanks

Regards
Pauly



"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
news:5nr0m1l6b8jllon8pmhhv9a94h3ke4ib7o at 4ax.com...
> "Ask" <pu at pmville.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm simply using the IDLE editor to hand code, then compiling and running.
>
> That doesn't help.  wxPython, Tkinter, and pyQt are just a few of the
> packages that can be used to put windows on the screen from Python. 
> Python
> has no built-in user interface stuff, so whatever you are using to place a
> window is something you downloaded, or something that was installed with
> your Python.  That's what we need to find out.
> -- 
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc. 




From mtebeka at qualcomm.com  Thu Oct  6 06:25:40 2005
From: mtebeka at qualcomm.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:25:40 +0300
Subject: Extending Python
In-Reply-To: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051006102540.GC8064@qualcomm.com>

Hello Tuvas,

> I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C code. I
> have an application built in C that I need to be able to use in Python.
http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Python.html#Python

> I have searched through various sources, starting of course with the
> Python site itself, and others, but I felt a bit lacking from the
> Python site, it seems it was only made for those who installed the
> source distribution, as for the other people... 
If you think something is missing from http://docs.python.org/ext/ext.html
please tell us.

> Anyways, thanks for the help!
You're welcome.

Bye.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <mtebeka at qualcomm.com>
http://tebeka.bizhat.com
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys
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From michael.s.gilbert at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 19:41:18 2005
From: michael.s.gilbert at gmail.com (michael.s.gilbert at gmail.com)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 16:41:18 -0700
Subject: python plotting with greek symbols within labels recommendations?
Message-ID: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hello all,

this message is geared toward those of you in the scientific community.
i'm looking for a python plotting library that can support rendering
greek symbols and other various characters on plot axes labels, etc. I
would prefer something that adheres to tex formatting (as implemented
in latex, matlab, etc and has the form $\alpha$ to represent the greek
character alpha for example).

thus far, i've found that matplotlib
(http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/) can do this, albeit the
implementation is so poor that you cannot mix standard text with
symbols on the same plot element.

pygrace (http://www.its.caltech.edu/~mmckerns/software.html) seems to
be able to inherently support symbols, but it doesn't follow the tex
formatting.  it has its own (seemingly arbitrary) syntax.

any thoughts on plotting libraries would be much appreciated.

mike



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 09:26:32 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:26:32 -0500
Subject: Windows installer, different versions of Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <434a5a94$0$38651$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <434a5a94$0$38651$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1128950948_131867@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

When you install Python it plug entries into the registry, so that when 
you go to install add-ons that are pre-compiled binaries, they look into 
the registry for the python directory.  If you can find out how to 
manipulate the registry so that the binaries would recognize different 
installations, you'd be good to go.  This would probably involve having 
copies of the same key with different values.


> I would like to install several copies of Python 2.4.2 on my machine, 
> but it doesn't seem to be possible.
> 
> If I allready has a version installed, the installer only gives the 
> options to:
> 
> - change python 2.4.2
> - repair python 2.4.2
> - remove python 2.4.2
> 
> I would like to install different versions of Zope 3, and since it is 
> installed under a specific python version, the simplest solution would 
> be to install several Python versions, and install a different zope3 
> version under each python install.
> 
> Have I misunderstood something here?
> 
> 


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 16 15:09:47 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:09:47 GMT
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <diu4fn$h1v$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<jYv4f.152052$xl6.59875@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<diu4fn$h1v$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <%zx4f.16506$ae.8879@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Christian Stapfer wrote:
> "Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote in message 
> news:jYv4f.152052$xl6.59875 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> 
>>Christian Stapfer wrote:
>>
>>>"Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:cTp4f.16180$ae.11317 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Christian Stapfer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>This discussion begins to sound like the recurring
>>>>>arguments one hears between theoretical and
>>>>>experimental physicists. Experimentalists tend
>>>>>to overrate the importance of experimental data
>>>>>(setting up a useful experiment, how to interpret
>>>>>the experimental data one then gathers, and whether
>>>>>one stands any chance of detecting systematic errors
>>>>>of measurement, all depend on having a good *theory*
>>>>>in the first place). Theoreticians, on the other hand,
>>>>>tend to overrate the importance of the coherence of
>>>>>theories. In truth, *both* are needed: good theories
>>>>>*and* carefully collected experimental data.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Christian
>>>>
>>>>An interesting parallel can be made concerning management of production 
>>>>vs
>>>>management of creativity.
>>>>
>>>>In general, production needs checks and feedback to insure quality, but
>>>>will often come to a stand still if incomplete resources are available.
>>>>
>>>>Where as creativity needs checks to insure production, but in many cases
>>>>can still be productive even with incomplete or questionable resources.
>>>>The quality may very quite a bit in both directions, but in creative
>>>>tasks, that is to be expected.
>>>>
>>>>In many ways programmers are a mixture of these two.  I think I and 
>>>>Steven
>>>>use a style that is closer to the creative approach. I get the feeling
>>>>your background may be closer to the production style.
>>>
>>>
>>>This diagnosis reminds me of C.G. Jung, the psychologist,
>>>who, after having introduced the concepts of extra- and
>>>introversion, came to the conclusion that Freud was
>>>an extravert whereas Adler an introvert. The point is
>>>that he got it exactly wrong...
>>>
>>> As to the value of complexity theory for creativity
>>>in programming (even though you seem to believe that
>>>a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
>>>creativity), the story of the discovery of an efficient
>>>string searching algorithm by D.E.Knuth provides an
>>>interesting case in point. Knuth based himself on
>>>seemingly quite "uncreatively theoretical work" (from
>>>*your* point of view) that gave a *better* value for
>>>the computational complexity of string searching
>>>than any of the then known algorithms could provide.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Christian
>>
>>
>>>(even though you seem to believe that
>>>
>>>>a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
>>>>creativity)
>>
>>No, that is not at all what I believe.  What I believe is, "The insistence 
>>of strict conditions can limit creative outcomes."
> 
> 
> That's agreed. But going off *blindly*experimenting*
> without trying to relate the outcome of that experimenting
> back to ones theoretical grasp of the work one is doing
> is *not* a good idea. Certainly not in the long run.
> In fact, muddling-trough and avoiding the question
> of suitable theoretical support for one's work is
> perhaps more typical of production environments.
> 
> 
>>The lack of those limits does not prevent one from using any resources 
>>(including theoretical ones) if they are available.
>>
>>You seem to be rejecting experimental results in your views.
> 
> 
> Not at all. You must have mis-read (or simply not-read)
> my posts in this thread and are simply projecting wildly,
> as psychoanalysts would call it, that is all.

The term 'rejecting' was the wrong word in this case.  But I still get 
the impression you don't trust experimental methods.


> As it appears, not even my most recent post has had
> *any* recognizable effect on your thoroughly
> misapprehending my position.
> 
> Regards,
> Christian

In most cases being able to see things from different view points is 
good.  So I was offering an additional view point, not trying to 
implying your's is less correct.

On a more practical level, Python as a language is a dynamic development 
process. So the level of completeness of the documentation, and the 
language it self, will vary a bit in some areas compared to others.  So 
as a programmer, it is often much more productive for me to  try 
something first and then change it later if it needs it.  Of course I 
would test it with a suitable range of data that represents the expected 
range at some point.

In any case, this view point has already been expressed I think.  <shrug>

Cheers,
    Ron



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 12:21:33 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:21:33 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130592935.839750.322930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h56rdh.1lgzv2op15fcpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<qwweeeit at yahoo.it> wrote:
   ...
> But the problem is that in Linux you can't even send a keystroke to
> a running GUI application!

Actually, if the app is running under X11 you may try to fake out a
keystroke event (with low level calls, but ctypes might let you use it
from Python).  Of course, the app WILL be told that the keystroke is
fake, through a special flag if it cares to check for it, for security
reasons; but if the app doesn't specifically defend itself in this way.

See, for example, http://xmacro.sourceforge.net/ -- I guess that
xmacroplay could pretty easily be adapted, or maybe even used as is with
an os.popen.


> I want to find a solution in Linux, with the help of experts
> (if they don't use only Windows...)  for two reasons:
> - the reduced availability in Windows of "free" or "open" applications
> - the more severe security problems in Windows.
> Concerning the second point, you can correctly argue that this is,
> at least partly, due to the wider market share of Windows but IMHO
> Linux is more robust in this field, and ...at the present times the
> situation is like that!

Don't neglect MacOSX -- it's quite secure, there are many open and free
applications, AND it has a decent architecture for the kind of tasks you
want to do (mostly intended for Apple's own Applescript language, but
all the interfaces are open and easily available to Python, which is
quite well supported on the Mac).

It also has an excellent italian newsgroup, it.comp.macintosh -- quite
high volume (as it discusses ANYthing Apple, from iPod shuffles to
golden oldies to rumors about new servers &c, with a lot of volume on
the audio and video applications that macs do so well) but worth it.


However, all the specific use cases you describe are best handled by
either fully emulating or directly integrating with a browser; faking
keystrokes is definitely too low-level an approach.  Python is very good
at dealing with the web (it IS, apparently, the favourite language of
Tim Berners Lee --- he came give a keynote at a Python conference),
including recording and replaying cookies and anything else you may need
to make a "special purpose browser" for automation purposes. Twisted is
an asynchronous framework for very well-performing, lightweight clients
and servers -- or, Python's standard library can suffice if you're not
in a terrible hurry;-).

Alternatively, Firefox and other Mozilla Foundation apps are designed to
be automated via XPCOM, essentially a cross-platform equivalent of
Microsoft's good old COM, and there are Python interfaces to it (some
future Firefox version might perhaps integrate a Python engine, just
like it integrates a Javascript engine today, but I wouldn't hold my
breath waiting;-).


Alex


From adurdin at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 21:41:35 2005
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:41:35 +1100
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a0510231841x48603345j80458b87a2198c4d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/24/05, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I may branch out into more advanced stuff such as asking
> for an example use case for a closure, a custom descriptor, or an import
> hook, for example

Isn't that approaching things from the wrong angle? You're asking them
to synthesise a problem for a given solution, rather than analyse a
problem to determine an appropriate solution. Asking questions like
these tests memory more than competence -- for example, if you ask me
of a use case for a closure, the only answer I could give would be to
remember a problem I'd solved in the past using one.

Andrew


From pydecker at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 21:41:40 2005
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:41:40 -0400
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
In-Reply-To: <1128906992.565860.327040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1128906992.565860.327040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ca55a9900510091841s4355a0fcv9d94b87e806756b0@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 Oct 2005 18:16:32 -0700, Clint Norton <Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well,
>     I though about it but I'm looking for something a little more
> interesting then bug fixing...
> Anyway, wouldn't it be to difficult to get into a huge project like
> python itself? Wouldn't it be a better idea to walk into a project that
> only have a few developers in it?

Don't know if you have any interest in desktop applications, but there
is a project named Dabo that is the sole work of two guys. It is a
complete desktop application framework, designed to build apps to work
with any sort of databases. I use it mostly for the excellent job they
have done wrapping wxPython.

They are working on developing a set of tools to aid in GUI
development, such as a form designer, and I'm sure that they would
welcome the help of any competent developer.
--

# p.d.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 11:33:43 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:33:43 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.15.33.40.829004@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:44:42 +0000, Tim Tyler wrote:

> In comp.lang.java.programmer Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote or quoted:
> 
>> Read my essay.
>> http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
> 
> FYI, this bit: 
> 
> ``Like ICQ, someone cannot send you mail without your prior permission. 
>   They can't send you mail because they don't have your public key to
>   encrypt the mail.''
> 
> ...is pretty confusing - because "public key" is a term with a technical
> meaning in cryptography - and a public key really *is* public.

The term you want is "wrong", not "confusing".

-- 
Steven.



From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 20 10:30:42 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:30:42 -0000
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lfagiildf9t9b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-20, the_crazy88 <python at gentoolinux.demon.nl> wrote:

> os.system("export PYTHONPATH = %s" %("your_pythonpath"))

No, that won't work.  

That will set the environment variable in the shell spawned by
the os.system command.  That shell will then immediately exit,
leaving the caller's environment unchanged.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Are you mentally here
                                  at               at Pizza Hut??
                               visi.com            


From gregm at taming-tech.com  Mon Oct 31 14:25:43 2005
From: gregm at taming-tech.com (GregM)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 11:25:43 -0800
Subject: Oh what a twisted thread we weave....
References: <1130545786.627404.102940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510291338050.19284@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1130786743.699821.290810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Tom,

Thanks for the reply and sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Thanks for pointing out my logic problem. I had added the 2nd part of
the if statement at the last minute...

Yes I have a single threaded version its several hundred lines and uses
COM to write the results out to and Excel spreadsheet.. I was trying to
better understand threading and queues before I started hacking on my
current code... maybe that was a mistake... hey I'm still learning and
I learn a lot just by reading stuff posted to this group. I hope at
some point I can help others in the same way.

Here are the relevent parts of the code (no COM stuff)

here is a summary:
# see if url exists
# if exists then
# 	hit page
# 	get text of page
# 	see if text of page contains search terms
#	if it does then
#		update appropiate counters and lists
#	else update static line and do the next one
# when done with Links list
#	- calculate totals and times
#	- write info to xls file
# end.

# utils are functions and classes that I wrote
# from utils import PrintStatic, HttpExists2
#
# My version of 'easyExcel' with extentions and improvements.
# import excelled
import urllib2
import time
import socket
import os
#import msvcrt         # for printstatic
from datetime import datetime
import pythoncom
from sys import exc_info, stdout, argv, exit

# search terms to use for matching.
#primarySearchTerm = 'Narrow your'
ST_lookingFor = 'Looking for Something'
ST_errorConnecting = 'there has been an error connecting'
ST_zeroMatch = 'You found 0 products'
ST_zeroMatch2 = 'There are no products matching your selection'

#initialize Globals
timeout = 90			# sets timeout for urllib2.urlopen()
failedlinks = []		# list for failed urls
zeromatch = []			# list for 0 result searches
pseudo404 = []			# list for shop.com 404 pages
t = 0 					# used to store starting time for getting a page.
count = 0				# number of tests so far
pagetime = 0			# time it took to load page
slowestpage = 0			# slowest page time
fastestpage = 10 		# fastest page time
cumulative = 0			# total time to load all pages (used to calc. avg)

#version number of the program
version = 'B2.9'

def ShopCom404(testUrl):
	""" checks url for shop.com 404 url
		shop.com 404 url -- returns status 200
		http://www.shop.com/amos/cc/main/404/ccsyn/260
	"""
	if '404' in testUrl:
		return True
	else:
		return False

##### main program #####

try:
	links = open(testfile).readlines()
except:
	exc, err, tb = exc_info()
	print 'There is a problem with the file you specified. Check the file
and re-run the program.\n'
	#print str(exc)
	print str(err)
	print
	exit()

# timeout in seconds
socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)
totalNumberTests = len(links)
print 'URLCheck ' + version + ' by Greg Moore (c) 2005 Shop.com\n\n'
# asctime() returns a human readable time stamp whereas time() doesn't
startTimeStr = time.asctime()
start = datetime.today()
for url in links:
	count = count + 1
	#HttpExists2 - checks to see if URL exists and detects redirection.
	# handles 404's and exceptions better. Returns tuple depending on
results:
	# if found: true and final url.	if not found: false and attempted url
	pgChk = HttpExists2(url)
	if pgChk[0] == False:
		#failed url Exists
		failedlinks.append(pgChk[1])
	elif ShopCom404(pgChk[1]):
		#Our version of a 404
		pseudo404.append(url)
	if pgChk[0] and not ShopCom404(url):
		#if valid page not a 404 then get the page and check it.
		try:
			t = time.time()
			urlObj = urllib2.urlopen(url)
			pagetime = time.time() - t
			webpg = urlObj.read()
			if (ST_zeroMatch in self.webpg) or (ST_zeroMatch2 in self.webpg):
				zeromatch.append(url)
			elif ST_errorConnecting in webpg:
			# for some reason we got the error page
			# so add it to the failed urls
				failmsg = 'Error Connecting Page with: ' + url
				failedlinks.append(failmsg)
		except:
			print 'exception with: ' + url
	#figure page times
	cumulative += pagetime
	if pagetime > slowestpage:
		slowestpage = pagetime, url.strip()
	elif pagetime < fastestpage:
		fastestpage = pagetime, url.strip()
	msg = 'testing ' + str(count) + ' of ' + str(totalNumberTests) + \
                '. Currnet runtime: ' + str(datetime.today() - start)
        # status message that updates the same line.
	#PrintStatic(msg)

### Now write out results
end = datetime.today()
finished = datetime.today()
finishedTimeStr = time.asctime()
avg = cumulative/totalNumberTests
failed = len(failedlinks)
nomatches = len(zeromatch)

#setup COM connection to Excel and write the spreadsheet.

If I understand what I've read about threading I need to convert much
of the above into a function and then call threading.thread start or
run to fire off each thread. but where and how and how to limit to X
number of threads is the part I get lost on. The example I've seen
using queues and threads never show using a list (squence) for the
source data and I'm not sure where I'd use the Queue stuff or for that
mattter if I'm just complicating the issue.

Once again thanks for the help.
Greg.



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 27 05:32:22 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:32:22 +0200
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
In-Reply-To: <7x64rjs4w8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de> <7x64rjs4w8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djq6r6$b2a$1@sadr.dfn.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:
> 
>>I have a list of items and a "rule" for ordering them.
>>
>>Unfortunately, the rule is not complete so it won't define the correct
>>order for any two items in that list.
>>
>>In other words, if I pick two random items from the list I may or may
>>not have a rule that dictates the order of those two items. The rule
>>could be "implicit" in that I got rules for other items, for instance:
> 
> 
> That's called topological sorting and any reference on graph
> algorithms will describe how to do it.  I don't know of Python code
> offhand but it's easy to write.
> 
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_sorting
> 
> gives a straightforward linear-time algorithm.

Thank you both.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct  3 09:15:23 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:15:23 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <1128292281.333539.61560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<1128292281.333539.61560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43412eec$0$16536$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

dwelch91 at gmail.com wrote:
> The easiest way to avoid this problem (besides watching for NameError
> exceptions) is to use an editor that has automatic name completion.
> Eric3 is a good example. So, even though in theory it could be an
> issue, I rarely run into this in practice. 

I don't use emacs automatic completion, and I still rarely (read:
'never') run into this kind of problem in Python.


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
ruby -e "print 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@').collect{|p|
p.split('.').collect{|w| w.reverse}.join('.')}.join('@')"


From leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam  Wed Oct 26 23:35:33 2005
From: leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam (Andy Leszczynski)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:35:33 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <o4idnTZJk8XB1_3eRVn-oQ@comcast.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> 
> Every line = more labour for the developer = more cost and time.
> Every line = more places for bugs to exist = more cost and time.
>

The place I work at the creation rate is not a problem - we could crank 
out in the team 1000s lines a week. Most time we spend is on maintanance 
. This is where Pyton shines over Java/C++/Perl. It is easy to read thus 
  maintane.

A.


From frank at chagford.com  Mon Oct 10 06:30:55 2005
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 03:30:55 -0700
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Frank Millman wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > I understand that StringIO creates a file-like object in memory.
> >
> > Is it possible to invoke another program, using os.system() or
> > os.popen(), and use the < redirect operator, so that the other program
> > reads my StringIO object as its input?
>
> No. Processes don't share memory - thus you have to either use a temp
> file, or pipes.
>
> > BTW, I have tried using popen2() and passing my data via stdin, but the
> > other program (psql) does not react well to this - again, I will give
> > more info if necessary.
>
> Better do so :)
>
> Diez

Thanks, Steve and Diez, for the replies. I didn't think it was
possible, but it was worth asking :-)

I will try to explain my experience with popen() briefly.

I have some sql scripts to create tables, indexes, procedures, etc. At
present there are about 50 scripts, but this number will grow. I have
been running them manually so far. Now I want to automate the process.

I am supporting PostgreSQL and MS SQL Server, and the syntax is
slightly different in some cases. Rather than maintain two sets of
scripts, I prefix some lines with -pg- or -ms- to indicate the
platform, and then use Python to parse the scripts and generate a
correct output for each platform, passing it to 'psql' and 'osql'
respectively, using popen().

I have had a few problems, but it would take too long to describe them
all, and I just want a working solution, so I will focus on my latest
attempt.

I run through all the scripts and create a StringIO object with the
string I want to pass. It is about 250 000 bytes long. If I run psql
using popen(), and pass it the string via stdin, it works fine, but I
get all the messages on the screen. If I do the same, but end the
command with ' > fjm 2>&1' it works correctly and the messages end up
in the file fjm, which is about 40 000 bytes long. If I run it with
popen4(), it starts ok, but then hangs about 1/4 of the way through.
Exactly the same happens on MSW. It seems to be hitting a limit on the
size of the stdout file - is that possible?

For my purposes, I will be happy to use popen() and a choice of no
redirection, redirect to a file, or redirect to /dev/null. The question
about popen4() is therefore academic, though I would be interested to
know the answer.

BTW, is there an equivalent of /dev/null on MSW?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Frank



From http  Fri Oct 21 19:23:49 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 16:23:49 -0700
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <7xbr1ijvy2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
> ***** HOW (if there's a better way let me know please) ******
> As I have not found any better solution yet, I am trying to do the following
> (on the server there is an html file and a cgi file)

If I understand it, you're trying to use a smart card to authenticate
a web site login.  The major browsers already have smart card interfaces
(Windows CAPI for MSIE, or PKCS11 for Netscape/Moz*) so you shouldn't
need a plugin.  On the other hand, smart cards are very slow.

The typical approach is as follows (MSIE version).  Stop using special
smart card programs and just use a card that implements CAPI with a
from the vendor and that can sign against an X509 certificate.  The
CSP will have a special signature that makes it less scary to install
than a browser plugin.  You'll have to issue a cert for the smart card
and there's various approaches to that, so I'll skip that part.  Set
up a TLS server to require a client cert from the CA that signed the
smart card.  The browser should recognize the challenge and select the
right cert.  The CSP will have its own interface for the user entering
a PIN along with inserting the card.  Once you have the TLS connection
established, set a secure cookie in the client session and then redirect
the browser to another URL that doesn't require the smart card (because
otherwise the card will have to re-authenticate every click, which is
very slow).  From then on, use the cookie for authentication (it can
have a timeout or whatever).  


From bonono at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 22:54:36 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 19:54:36 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130640876.824701.53900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

FormEncode.

lbolognini at gmail.com wrote:
> What do u think of the following? I could keep the form schema as
> expected_form1_kwargs in a separate module and import * and wrap the
> kwargs check done in the for loop in a function for use in the whole
> site.
>
> The elif part is useful for checkboxes which are not passed by the
> browser if they're not checked.
>
> def foo(self, **kwargs)
>     expected_form1_kwargs = [arg1, arg2]
>
>     for name in kwargs:
>         if name not in expected_form1_kwargs:
>             raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword" + name
>         elif name in expected_form1_kwargs not in kwargs.keys():
>             kwargs.update(name=None)
> 
> 
> Thanks again everybody,
> Lorenzo



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 03:21:32 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:21:32 +0100
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diidhv$902$1@sea.gmane.org>

Rune Strand wrote:
> Is it an idea to include a new __filename__ predefined attribute to
> 2.5, so that __file__ contains the entire path to the module, and
> __filename__ only the name of the module?
> 
> For instance it's useful to include a not-static reference to the
> filename in a scripts usage() section and it's cumbersome to extract
> the filename or to do module imports just to parse it.
> 
No. It's not usually a good idea to remove complexity from your program 
by adding it (where most of the time it's not needed) to the underlying 
system. Here's a clue as to how you might do without __file__ altogether:

sholden at bigboy ~/Projects/Python
$ cat test78.py
import sys
print sys.argv

sholden at bigboy ~/Projects/Python
$ python test78.py can we say live with it?
['test78.py', 'can', 'we', 'say', 'live', 'with', 'it?']

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 20 07:13:28 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 11:13:28 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-20, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> I was wondering how people would feel if the cmp function and
>> the __cmp__ method would be a bit more generalised.
>> 
>> The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
>> indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
>> equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.
>> 
>> So I thought that either cmp could return None in this
>> case or throw a specific exception. People writing a
>> __cmp__ method could do the same.
>> 
> The current behaviour is, of course, by design: """The operators <, >, 
>==, >=, <=, and != compare the values of two objects. The objects need 
> not have the same type. If both are numbers, they are converted to a 
> common type. Otherwise, objects of different types always compare 
> unequal, and are ordered consistently but arbitrarily."""
>
> Personally I'm still not convinced that your requirement reflects a 
> substantial use case (but then I'm getting used to that ;-). Just 
> because an ordering is partial that doesn't mean that two instances of a 
> class shouldn't be compared.

I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't be compared.

> What would you have Python do when the programmer tries to perform an 
> invalid comparison (i.e. what are the exact semantics imposed when 
> __cmp__() returns None/raises an exception)?

My appologies, I should have been more complete.

What I want is a way to say that all of the following are False:

  a < b, a <= b, a == b, a > b, a >= b

and that only the following is True:

  a != b


So if a coder writes one of the comparisons and as a result python
calls the __cmp__ method on one of the terms which would return
either None or raise an exceptions I would like it to reflect
the above behaviour.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Oct  5 05:14:22 2005
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:14:22 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4343996E.8010201@sweetapp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> 
>>Have those of you who think that the lack of required declarations in
>>Python is a huge weakness given any thought to the impact that adding
>>them would have on the rest of the language? I can't imagine how any
>>language with required declarations could even remotely resemble
>>Python.
> 
> 
> Python already has a "global" declaration;

Which is evaluated at runtime, does not require that the actual global 
variable be pre-existing, and does not create the global variable if not 
actually assigned. I think that is pretty different than your proposal 
semantics.

> how does it de-Pythonize the language if there's also a "local"
> declaration and an option to flag any variable that's not declared as
> one or the other?

Your making this feature "optional" contradicts the subject of this 
thread i.e. declarations being necessary. But, continuing with your 
declaration thought experiment, how are you planning on actually adding 
optional useful type declarations to Python e.g. could you please 
rewrite this (trivial) snippet using your proposed syntax/semantics?

from xml.dom import *

def do_add(x, y):
     return '%s://%s' % (x, y)

def do_something(node):
     if node.namespace == XML_NAMESPACE:
         return do_add('http://', node.namespace)
     elif node.namespace == ...
     ...



> There's been a proposal from none other than GvR to add optional
> static declarations to Python:
> 
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551

A few points:
1. making it work in a reasonable way is an acknowledged hard problem
2. it will still probably not involve doing type checking at
    compile-time
3. it would only generate a warning, not an error

Cheers,
Brian


From mtebeka at qualcomm.com  Mon Oct 31 02:19:38 2005
From: mtebeka at qualcomm.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:19:38 +0200
Subject: Problem with py2exe
In-Reply-To: <1130705244.768027.147710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130705244.768027.147710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051031071938.GD3504@qualcomm.com>

Hello DDany,


> copying D:\programs\python24\MSVCR71.dll -> D:\Applicazione\dist
> error: could not delete 'C:\app\dist\MSVCR71.dll': Permission denied
> 
> However folders build and dist are created: in particular into the
> folder dist i have the w9xpopen.exe file, some *.pyd files and some
> dll's... among dll's I have the MSVCR71.dll too.
>
My guess in the MSVCR71.dll is a read-only file in system32 and when py2exe
tries to copy it the 2'nd time it fails.

Either change MSVCR71.dll to read-write in system32 or delete "dist" before
calling to py2exe.

One final note: 
You subject line could have been better, see
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.

Bye.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <mtebeka at qualcomm.com>
http://tebeka.bizhat.com
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys
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From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Mon Oct 17 15:02:06 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:02:06 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <200510171402.06197.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Monday 17 October 2005 12:19, Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> 1) A real word processor.

Difficult. Not necessarily impossible. Would require much cleverness. 
And it wouldn't be capable of everything Word can do.

> 2) Keybindings in a web application

Not sure here, but JavaScript may be able to do something to accomplish 
some of this. A web-delivered XUL app can definitely do this. But 
that's pushing the limits of what can be considered a web application.

> 3) Drag and drop

JavaScript can definitely do this. AFAIK Zimbra (http://www.zimbra.com) 
does this. D&D w/ the desktop environment may not be supported though.

> 4) Resizable windows (i.e. not the browser window) within the
> application.

Possible, but difficult. I believe that some great cleverness with 
JavaScript and absolutely-positioned DIV's can probably come pretty 
stinking close, and Flash can definitely do this (but that doesn't 
really count). Not tested.

> 5) Anything other than absolutely trivial graphical programs.

Correct there.

- Michael


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  3 17:30:07 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:30:07 GMT
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <86k6gujo6c.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Ghf0f.11476$X31.619550@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<86k6gujo6c.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <zph0f.11585$e31.606259@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> writes:
> 
>>Peter Decker wrote:
>>
>>>Setting the default Reply-To: to the list means that 'Reply' sends
>>>just to the list (the desired behavior most of the time), and 'Reply
>>>to all' sends 2 copies.
>>
>>The thing is: Reply-to has legitimate uses. I don't really understand
>>the use cases (AFAICS all of them could be done with Form: instead)
> 
> 
> Yes, they can all be done with From:. But From: has uses other than
> just listing the reply address, and if you hijack From: to replace
> reply-to (because other people have hijacked Reply-To: for purposes
> for which it wasn't intended :-), then you can't use From: for what
> *it* was intended for.
> 
> I send out mail - well, mail gets sent out for me - every day that
> uses both the From: and Reply-To: fields. The mail is *from* me, and
> that's what the from header says. The reply needs to go to a magic
> maildrop that takes action based on the reply address. The recipient
> doesn't need to see the reply address, and would only be confused by
> it if they did.

Ah yes, I see. I guess I could have thought about that sort of cases myself.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From buffer_88 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 13 13:08:47 2005
From: buffer_88 at hotmail.com (George)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 10:08:47 -0700
Subject: form filling XML
Message-ID: <1129223327.031069.163820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

How can I do the following in python:

given two strings:
form="""
<html>
<head> <title> My Sample Web Page </title> </head>
<body bgcolor="white">
<p>
What are the weekdays?
<ol>
<li>Monday</li>
<li>Tuesday</li>
<li>Wednesday</li>
<li>Thursday</li>
<li>Friday</li>
</ol>
</p>
</body>
</html>
"""
fillin="""
<dutchdays>
<Monday>maandag</Monday>
<Tuesday>dinsdag</Tuesday>
<Wednesday>woensdag</Wednesday>
<Thursday>donderdag</Thursday>
<Friday>vrijdag</Friday>
<Saturday>zaterdag</Saturday>
<Sunday>zondag</Sunday>
</dutchdays>
"""

How can I compare the text in the element tags <li> with the elements
tags in filling and if they match replace the text within the elements
tags <li> with the text in the matching element tag of fillin.
For example Since the text Monday in form matches the Element tag
<Monday> in fillin put maandag in the element tag <li> of Monday.

Kind of a Pseudo Code

import xml.dom.minidom

def xmlform(form=None, fillin=None):
 Fo = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(form)
 Fi = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(fillin)

 Fo information:
 get element tags for li
 get text for li

 Fi information:
 get childtags for dutchdays

 if(text for li=child tags for dutchdays):
   replace child tags for dutchdays text with text for li

There needs to be a loop but I cannot figure out what type of loop
maybe a while len(Fo)>0: to process through the form.

Thanks for the help!!



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 12 11:51:04 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:51:04 +0200
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
References: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<diidbt$7e$1@news.tsua.net><1129126067.252195.315080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dij79u$u12$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dijbd9$e02$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

>> what does 2>&1 mean pls ?
>>
> It's Unix shell-speak for "send the standard error stream to the same
> place as the standard output". Probably a syntax error on Windows ...

> more test.py
import sys
sys.stdout.write("stdout!\n")
sys.stderr.write("stderr!\n")

> python test.py >out
stderr!

> python test.py 2>out
stdout!

> python test.py >out 2>&1
>more out
stdout!
stderr!

> ver
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]

</F> 





From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Thu Oct 13 14:12:12 2005
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:12:12 +0200
Subject: Forcing a stack trace from the command line?
References: <mailman.2017.1129224402.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20051013181212.358.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Willie Walker wrote:

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Perhaps strace will tell you something.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

'Not all who wander are lost.' - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Fri Oct 28 04:37:33 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:37:33 +0200
Subject: Suggestion for (re)try statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2660.1130443842.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2660.1130443842.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <djso0d$jk$2@sadr.dfn.de>

Sori Schwimmer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think that would be useful to have an improved
> version of the "try" statement, as follows:
> 
> try(retrys=0,timeout=0):
<snip>
>       sleep(timeout)
<snip>

At the very least, "timeout" is the wrong wording, "delay" would be more 
appropriate. A timeout is usually associated with starting a task and 
waiting for it to complete, and continuing if it fails to complete in a 
given timeframe, typically also aborting the task at the same time (ie. 
executing a database query, connecting to a server, waiting for an 
event/lock, etc.).

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From wlang at wu-wien.ac.at  Mon Oct 17 06:25:02 2005
From: wlang at wu-wien.ac.at (Willi Langenberger)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:25:02 +0200
Subject: xmlrpclib: how to marshal special instances
Message-ID: <17235.31742.238197.494915@slime.wu-wien.ac.at>

Hi!


We have an application server (Zope) and make heavy use of
xml-rpc. One problem arised, when we tried to return a zope.DateTime
instance. xmlrpclib (naturally) knows nothing about zope.DateTime and 
marshalls it as instance, which gives a structure (of zope.DateTime
attributes) on the client side (which isnt very usable).

It seems we have two possibilities:

1) Convert all zope.DateTime instances to xmlrpclib.DateTime instances
   in our appserver program. (This would be a burden for every
   appserver programmer.)

2) Tell xmlrpclib how to marshal zope.DateTime instances as
   xmlrpclib.DateTime objects.

We are in favour of 2, and would like to patch Zope, so that
zope.DateTime objects automatically recieve as xmlrpc date types on
the client side.

Schematically:

  import xmlrpclib

  # zope.DateTime must have an "encode" method
  xmlrpclib.WRAPPERS = xmlrpclib.WRAPPERS + (zope.DateTime,)

However, we do not know, if the WRAPPERS tuple is an "official" API,
and if we should use it that way. (We'd like to know before we try to
get a patch into the Zope core...)

Or, are there other (better!) ways to solve the problem (marshal
zope.DateTime as xml-rpc date without modifying xmlrpclib)?


Thanks!


\wlang{}

-- 
Willi.Langenberger at wu-wien.ac.at                Fax: +43/1/31336/9207
Zentrum fuer Informatikdienste, Wirtschaftsuniversitaet Wien, Austria


From peterm at resmed.com.au  Sun Oct 16 19:42:03 2005
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:42:03 +1000
Subject: Python on the Power PC
References: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	<mailman.1825.1128928745.509.python-list@python.org>
	<6ID2f.21$QL5.426@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	<1129415944.336861.63730@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hzB4f.119$sV4.444@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Thanks for the reply Matt - you must have customised things though from the
distribution because this can't (and doesn't! :-)) work i.e. I have
(already) placed the python23.zip into \Program Files\Python\Lib but there
is no lib-tk off that point (which is what I believe the .append instruction
does in the customize script).

In fact, looking at my Python24 installation on my PC, I can see a lib-tk
directory off c:\Python24\Lib - but there is no such directory on my Pocket
PC - can I just "copy" this directory directly onto my Pocket PC? <see
below!>

OK, copying the lib-tk directory over to my Pocket PC seems to make the file
work - thanks for the help! :-)

Peter


<mhykes at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129415944.336861.63730 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm using the same distribution (or at least that is what I started
> with). Try using the following sitecustomize.py file:
>
> ###### sitecustomize.py ######
> import sys
> syspath = sys.path
> libpath = '\\Program Files\\Python\\Lib'
> syspath.append(libpath+'\\lib-tk')
> sys.path = none
> sys.path = syspath
> ##############################
>
> You will need to extract the python23.zip into \Program
> Files\Python\Lib, then add the sitecustomize.py file to the same
> directory.  Then Python should be able to find the Tkinter module that
> it is complaining about.
>
> - Matt
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 00:34:26 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:34:26 -0700
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
References: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h540wf.e6lclmqoc101N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Iain King <iainking at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have some code that converts html into xhtml.  For example, convert
> all <i> tags into <em>.  Right now I need to do to string.replace calls
> for every tag:
> 
> html = html.replace('<i>','<em>')
> html = html.replace('</i>','</em>')
> 
> I can change this to a single call to re.sub:
> 
> html = re.sub('<([/]*)i>', r'<\1em>', html)
> 
> Would this be a quicker/better way of doing it?

*MEASURE*!

Helen:~/Desktop alex$ python -m timeit -s'import re; h="<i>aap</i>"' \
> 'h.replace("<i>", "<em>").replace("</i>", "</em>")'
100000 loops, best of 3: 4.41 usec per loop

Helen:~/Desktop alex$ python -m timeit -s'import re; h="<i>aap</i>"' \>
're.sub("<([/]*)i>", r"<\1em>}", h)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 52.9 usec per loop
Helen:~/Desktop alex$ 

timeit.py is your friend, remember this...!


Alex


From nick at craig-wood.com  Tue Oct 11 07:30:02 2005
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:30:02 GMT
Subject: subprocess and non-blocking IO (again)
References: <434a80e4_2@news3.prserv.net>
Message-ID: <slrndkn6ub.6o7.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Marc Carter <mcarter at uk.ibm.com> wrote:
>  import subprocess,select,sys
> 
>  speakers=[]
>  lProc=[]
> 
>  for machine in ['box1','box2','box3']:
>       p = subprocess.Popen( ('echo '+machine+';sleep 2;echo goodbye;sleep 
>  2;echo cruel;sleep 2;echo world'), stdout=subprocess.PIPE, 
>  stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, stdin=None, universal_newlines=True )
>       lProc.append( p )
>       speakers.append( p.stdout )
> 
>  while speakers:
>       speaking = select.select( speakers, [], [], 1000 )[0]
>       for speaker in speaking:
>           speech = speaker.readlines()
>           if speech:
>               for sentence in speech:
>                   print sentence.rstrip('\n')
>                   sys.stdout.flush() # sanity check
>           else: # EOF
>               speakers.remove( speaker )
>  - SNIP ---------
>  The problem with the above is that the subprocess buffers all its output 
>  when used like this and, hence, this automation is not informing me of 
>  much :)

The problem with the above is that you are calling speaker.readlines()
which waits for all the output.

If you replace that with speaker.readline() or speaker.read(1) you'll
see that subprocess hasn't given you a buffered pipe after all!

In fact you'll get partial reads of each line - you'll have to wait
for a newline before processing the result, eg

import subprocess,select,sys

speakers=[]
lProc=[]

for machine in ['box1','box2','box3']:
     p = subprocess.Popen( ('echo '+machine+';sleep 2;echo goodbye;sleep 2;echo cruel;sleep 2;echo world'), stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, stdin=None, universal_newlines=True, shell=True)
     lProc.append( p )
     speakers.append( p.stdout )

while speakers:
     speaking = select.select( speakers, [], [], 1000 )[0]
     for speaker in speaking:
         speech = speaker.readline()
         if speech:
             for sentence in speech:
                 print sentence.rstrip('\n')
                 sys.stdout.flush() # sanity check
         else: # EOF
             speakers.remove( speaker )

gives

b
o
x
1

b
o
x
3

b
o
x
2

pause...

g
o
o
d
b
y
e

etc...

I'm not sure why readline only returns 1 character - the pipe returned
by subprocess really does seem to be only 1 character deep which seems
a little inefficient! Changing bufsize to the Popen call doesn't seem
to affect it.
-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  2 16:44:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:44:59 -0400
Subject: Program help
References: <1128283048.975696.101760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <863bnjmywk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"FX" <taranfx at gmail.com> writes:

> can anybody write a code for a program that reads from a
> /location/file & according to file contents, it execute script. e.g. if
> file contains "mp" it runs media player.
> I hope the code is small .. plz help me out!

open <URL: http://www.mired.org/downloads/ > will use the extension to
figure out what to do. It's relatively small.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 19 15:30:37 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:30:37 +0200
Subject: Extention Module/ list of chars-> string
In-Reply-To: <1129749035.667046.98630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129749035.667046.98630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43569edd$0$6081$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Tuvas wrote:
> A. Change a list of chars to a single string or
> B. Read a list of chars in an extention module

Either is possible, but I recommend to do A:

data = ''.join(data)

Then pass the modified data to the extension module.

Regards,
Martin


From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Tue Oct 18 10:58:24 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 07:58:24 -0700
Subject: override a property
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129647504.536405.156280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need to create
> another class with the property changed?
> --
> Robin Becker

It is possible to decorate a method in a way that it seems like
property() respects overridden methods. The decorator cares
polymorphism and accesses the right method.

def overridable(f):
    def __wrap_func(self,*args,**kwd):
        func = getattr(self.__class__,f.func_name)
        if func.func_name == "__wrap_func":
            return f(self,*args,**kwd)
        else:
            return func(self,*args,**kwd)
    return __wrap_func


class A(object):
    def __init__(self, x):
        self._x = x

    @overridable
    def get_x(self):
        return self._x

    x = property(get_x)

class B(A):

    def get_x(self):
        return self._x**2

class C(B):pass

>>> a = A(7)
>>> a.x
7
>>> b = B(7)
>>> b.x
49
>>> c = C(7)
>>> c.x
49



From gene.tani at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 12:36:17 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:36:17 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <1h4wbam.7po3qo1j2e8b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232346320.24000@urchin.earth.li>
	<1h4wbam.7po3qo1j2e8b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130258177.210236.149070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

APL, i haven't thought about that in 15 years.  I think it was (quad)CT
for comparison tolerance, at least in IBM APL.

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>    ...
> > What would approximate FP equality even mean? How approximate?
>
> In APL, it meant "to within [a certain quad-global whose name I don't
> recall] in terms of relative distance", i.e., if I recall correctly,
> "a=b" meant something like "abs(a-b)/(abs(a)+abs(b)) < quadEpsilon" or
> thereabouts.  Not too different from Numeric.allclose, except the latter
> is "richer" (it takes both absolute and relative "epsilons", and also
> implies an "and-reduce" if the objects being compared are arrays).
> 
> 
> Alex



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct 27 12:22:39 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:22:39 -0500
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <IIWdnR05duRDpP3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
	<IIWdnR05duRDpP3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <17248.65231.784511.11456@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    DH> It's a conflict between python's syntax for regex back references
    DH> and octal number literals.  Probably wasn't noticed until way too
    DH> late, and now it will never change.

I suspect it comes from Perl, since Python's regular expression engine tries
pretty hard to be compatible with Perl's, at least for the basics.

Skip


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 02:24:44 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:24:44 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <86y84rxryr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86fyqzzskt.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> writes:
>>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support and
>>> what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both irrelevant.
>> Unless, of course, you want to support any compliant browser.
> Since no browser I know of is perfectly compliant (e.g. bug-free), that's 
> not a feasible goal.

I guess you'd say developing any software isn't a feasible goal,
because it'll never be bug-free, will never have bug-free compilers to
compile it, bug-free linkers to link it, bug-free GUI/db/etc libraries
to link with it, bug-free servers to communicate with, and bug-free
operating systems to run it on. Fortunately, most developers aren't
quite that anal, and realize that you can get useful work done in a
less-than-perfect environment.

Since a compliant browser has hooks that let users change their
behavior, well-written HTML will degrade gracefully in the face of a
browser that's had features turned off or had their behavior
changed. Dealing with browser bugs isnt any harder than that.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From renting at astron.nl  Fri Oct 14 12:32:50 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:32:50 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
Message-ID: <s34ff9e0.018@server7.nfra.nl>

>>>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> 10/14/05 5:39 pm >>> 
$"Adriaan Renting" <renting at astron.nl> writes: 
$[On Qt] 
$>I don't know how it performs on OSX, I think it works fine, as Qt is 
$>available on OSX. 
$ 
$Qt on OS X is halfway there. It looks - and acts - like an aqua 
$application. However, to support the Command key, they hacked things 
$so that it is reported to the upper layers as the Control key. This 
$means that there's no way to get to use the control key in the UI for 
$qt apps on OS X. 
$ 
$This really rapes apps with configurable shortcuts. For instance, LyX 
$comes with a couple of emacsish bindings. You can turn them on, but 
$you have to use Command-key instead of Control-key, which pretty 
$thoroughly defeats the purpose. 
$ 
$          <mike 

I think to some extent it's a general problem with cross-platform toolkits, altough I agree that I think the way Trolltech solved it for OS X might be sub-optimal, depending on how the command key is supposed to work.

You have the problem that some keyboard layouts have OS specific keys (Windows key, menu key on some PCs, Command key on apples) which you can't support in a cross-platform way. If using Command-Letter is the standard way of having keyboard shortcuts in OS X, then I think I can understand why they choose this implementation,. I suppose the Command key is more integrated into the OS as is the Windows key in Windows. I think it would be nice if you could choose the mapping.

The basic problem is that a widget toolkit that supports control/shift/alt/command as meta-keys can not be cross-platform, as the command key has no equivalent in windows or linux. How do the other widget toolkits handle this, do they ignore the Command key? What does Linux PPC/YellowDog do with the Command key?

Adriaan Renting. 


From nil at dev.nul  Mon Oct 10 11:11:47 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:11:47 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
Message-ID: <die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"George Sakkis" <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote in message 
news:1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8 at teranews...
> "Christian Stapfer" <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>
>> <ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > try to use set.
>>
>>     Sorting the two lists and then extracting
>> A-B, B-A, A|B, A & B and A ^ B in one single
>> pass seems to me very likely to be much faster
>> for large lists.
>
> Why don't you implement it, test it and time it
> to be more convincing about your intuition ?

The problem is in the generation of the test data.
Even merely generating a set of (suitably "average",
"random", and suitably "worst case") datasets might
turn out to be a major undertaking.
 If the documentation stated the order-of-magnitude
behavior of those basic operations up front, then
I (and *anyone* else who ever wanted to use those
operations on large lists / large sets) could do
a quick order-of-magnitude estimation of how
a certain program design will behave, performance
wise.
  *Experimenting* is not necessarily as easy to
do as you seem to believe. How do you, for example,
hit upon the worst-case behavior with your test
data? - Without knowing *anything* about the
implementation it might a matter sheer luck.
If you *know* something about the implementation
then, of course, you might be able to figure it
out. (But note that if you know *that* much about
the implementation, you usually have an order-of-
magnitude estimate anyway and don't need to do
*any* experimenting in order to answer my question.)

Regards,
Christian




From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  2 19:38:46 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:38:46 -0400
Subject: Python for search engine development
References: <1128288465.580210.35460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86u0fzlcah.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"corebump" <m.yalcin at gmail.com> writes:

> hi everybody,
> i planinng develop a search engine and i think using the python. Python
> performance is enough this project? 

If you're going to do the heavy lifting in Python, maybe. It depends
on what you're going to search, and the performance requirements for a
search.

On the other hand, if you use a Python wrapper around a full-text
search facility, so that python finds documents, takes queries and
formats results for the user, it should be just fine.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sat Oct  1 20:03:02 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 01:03:02 +0100
Subject: Python 3! Finally!
In-Reply-To: <dhk1ds$654$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <dhk1ds$654$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510020101560.22776@urchin.earth.li>

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> I just firefoxed to Python.org and clicked on the bz2 link at
> http://python.org/2.4.2/ and what did I get?
>
> Python-3.4.2.tar.bz2 !!
>
> Python 3 - what we've all been waiting for, finally, it's there!

Not only that, but they've skipped the tiresome 3.0.x early release 
teething phase and gone straight to the mature, solid-as-a-rock middle 
releases! God, i love python!

Hey, and it's still got lambdas! WE WON!!!

tom

-- 
I'm not quite sure how that works but I like it ...


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Fri Oct 28 11:59:24 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:59:24 -0500
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net>

<pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1130497567.764104.125110 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I want to scan a file byte for byte for occurences of the the four byte
> pattern 0x00000100. I've tried with this:
>
> # start
> import sys
>
> numChars = 0
> startCode = 0
> count = 0
>
> inputFile = sys.stdin
>
> while True:
>    ch = inputFile.read(1)
>    numChars += 1
>
>    if len(ch) < 1: break
>
>    startCode = ((startCode << 8) & 0xffffffff) | (ord(ch))
>    if numChars < 4: continue
>
>    if startCode == 0x00000100:
>        count = count + 1
>
> print count
> # end
>
> But it is very slow. What is the fastest way to do this? Using some
> native call? Using a buffer? Using whatever?
>
> /David

How about something like:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys

fn = 't.dat'
ss = '\x00\x00\x01\x00'

be = len(ss) - 1        # length of overlap to check
blocksize = 4 * 1024    # need to ensure that blocksize > overlap

fp = open(fn, 'rb')
b = fp.read(blocksize)
found = 0
while len(b) > be:
    if b.find(ss) != -1:
        found = 1
        break
    b = b[-be:] + fp.read(blocksize)
fp.close()
sys.exit(found) 




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 12 05:31:46 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:31:46 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diil62$ab$1@sea.gmane.org>

Rune Strand wrote:

> I know it's several ways to isolate the filename. I just want to avoid
> the overhead of importing sys or os  to achieve it.

those modules are already imported when Python gets to your code, so
the only "overhead" you're saving is a little typing.

> Currently I have this in my scripts:
> __filename__ = __file__.replace('\\', '/').rsplit('/', 1)[-1]

wow.  that's one lousy optimization...

here's a *shorter* piece of code, which is also readable and portable, and
a lot easier to type on most keyboards:

   import os
   __filename__ = os.path.basename(__file__)

</F> 





From ms at cerenity.org  Thu Oct 27 16:06:55 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:06:55 +0100
Subject: MSH (shell)
References: <1130436264.681787.121250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <436132dd$0$49789$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

> This can be of little interest of some people here, but I think it can
> be interesting enough to justify a post.
> 
> An article on the Microsoft Command Shell:
> http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/msh.ars
> (Its syntax is rather Python-like, but Py syntax seems better to me,
> even taking into account that their purposes are a little different).
> 
> Other info:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSH_(shell)
> 
> Something vaguely similar made with Python:
> http://geophile.com/osh/index.html

Kamaelia's Axon Shell[*] is also very similar. An Axon scheduler runs as a
background thread to an IPython interpretor, allowing you to "launch"
Kamaelia components interactively, including both pipelines and Graphlines
of components.

   [*] http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/AxonShell.html

But then Kamaelia IS designed as a pipeline/graphline (1d,2d,n-d) system
from the ground up, so having a shell for it was a logical step :-) ...

I suppose the difference between python and MSH is you don't need a separate
language, maybe a module or three, but you don't need to modify the
language :)



Michael.



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct  8 00:38:48 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:38:48 -0400
Subject: Best way to share a python list of objects
References: <1128736534.695525.255410@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128746330.bbf97ca9faebacd9d8844138378d0e53@teranews>

"kyle.tk" <kyle.tk at gmail.com> wrote:

> So I have a central list of python objects that I want to be able to
> share between different process that are possibly on different
> computers on the network. Some of the processes will add objects to
> list and another process will be a GUI that will view objects in the
> list. I want this all to happen in real-time (e.g once a processes adds
> an object to the list the GUI will see it.)
>
> What would be the best way to accomplish this. Some of my ideas:
> - An XML file r/w-able by all processes
> - Send pickled objects between all processes and each keeps it own list
> locally
> - A ascii type protocol akin to ftp the hands out all the info to the
> processes
>
> Any other ideas? What would work the best

If all the processes are python, I would check Pyro first: http://pyro.sourceforge.net/.

George




From scott.daniels at acm.org  Mon Oct 17 16:35:37 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:35:37 -0700
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2184.1129576814.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2184.1129576814.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43540a8c$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Sori Schwimmer wrote:
> I have Python 2.4.1 and have downloaded 2.4.2. Is
> there a way to avoid installing everything and,
> instead, just upgrade?

Run the following code on your 2.4.1 installation and
post the results:

python -m platform

Or, if you prefer:
     import platform
     platform.platform(True, False)

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From derek.perriero at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 15:22:18 2005
From: derek.perriero at gmail.com (Derek Perriero)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:22:18 -0400
Subject: Best way to handle cgi sessions
Message-ID: <17fc20160510141222g65b11873y28ca495874a64156@mail.gmail.com>

What would be the best way to create a cgi session that contains the basic
elements of a cookie and can also hold secure data, such as a
username/password. I've explored the possibilities of using SmartCookie, but
that doesn't encrypt my parameters.
Here's some background info on what I'm trying to do:

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

try:
username = form["username"].value
password = form["password"].value
except KeyError:
print "Please Enter Username/Password"

## authenticate against LDAP server
if not authen.ldap(username,password):
cookie = 0 #Cookie dies and page goes back to re-login
display = functions.display_html_admin("main_temp.html")
functions.print_html_header(cookie)
print display
exit

else:
cookie = authen.genCookie(username)
display = functions.display_html_admin("main_temp.html")
functions.print_html_header(cookie)
print display
exit

...
## From authen.py

def genCookie(username):
cookie = SmartCookie()

cookie["CGISESSID"] = generate_hash()
cookie["CGISESSID"]["path"] = "/tmp"
cookie["logintype"] = "admin"
cookie["username"] = username
cookie["loggedin"] = "verified"

return(cookie)

#end:


--
Perriero, Derek
derek.perriero at gmail.com
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From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Mon Oct 17 13:10:43 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 10:10:43 -0700
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <3r80ugFi4defU1@individual.net>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r80ugFi4defU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <1129569043.404138.327160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Claudio,
I fully agree with you. I already used AutoIt 3 but when I moved to
Linux I wasn't able to find anything similar.
I moved also to Python for its power but also if it is called a
scripting language it doesn't simply interact with graphical
applications. As a last resort I tried DCOP (Desktop COmmunication
Protocol) to at least interact
(also from Python) with KDE applications. But even there it is
impossible to send a simulated keystroke to a running KDE application
(for ex. the konqueror browser).
Also if I will not switch back to Windows, when I have macro and
automation problems I am obliged to use XP (I have  double boot...).
Bye.



From smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com  Sat Oct 29 10:19:24 2005
From: smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:19:24 -0400
Subject: Generic utility class for passing data
References: <1u-dnSkSzdnsfP_enZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <871x245rtf.fsf@bigfoot.com>

>>>>> "Gordon" == Gordon Airporte <JHoover at fbi.gov> writes:

    Gordon> I'm wondering if this is might be bad practice. Sometimes
    Gordon> when I need to pass around several pieces of datum I will
    Gordon> put them in a tuple, then when I need to use them in a
    Gordon> receiving function I get them out with subscripts. The
    Gordon> problem is that the subscript number is completely
    Gordon> meaningless and I have to remember the order I used.  As
    Gordon> an alternative I was considering using a dummy class like
    Gordon> this:

    Gordon> class Dummy: pass

    Gordon> Then when I need to pass some related data, Python lets me
    Gordon> do this:

    Gordon> prefill = Dummy() prefill.foreground = 'blue'
    Gordon> #"foreground" is made up on the fly prefill.background =
    Gordon> 'red' prefill.pattern = mypattern return prefill

    Gordon> Now I can access the data later using meaningful names.
    Gordon> Is this going to cause problems somehow? Should I rather
    Gordon> go to the trouble of creating more substantial individual
    Gordon> classes for every grouping of data I might need to pass
    Gordon> (with __init__'s and default values and so on)? Should I
    Gordon> just stick with subscripted groupings because of the
    Gordon> overhead?

May fortune smile on Zoran Isailovski, whose Enum class is exactly
what you want:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/413486
-Chris


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 15:06:51 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:06:51 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<mark-247ED9.12341218102005@news.isp.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <86ek6iy790.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Mark Roseman <mark at markroseman.com> writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
>> > Maybe that's the key difference between the mindset of a
>> > mathematician and that of an engineer -- I consider reaching over
>> > 95% of visitors to be _quite good indeed_,
>>> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
>> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
>> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
>> told that that's what's going on.
> Obviously we all agree the effort to support both is significant.  The 
> question is not so much "do we turn away 5%" as "do we use the effort we 
> do have to provide a better experience for the 95%, or to provide a 
> slightly worse experience for the 95%, and an ok experience for the 5%".

You elided the paragraph where I pointed out the third alternative:
provide a better experience for the 95%, and an ok experience for the
5%. WWW technologies are designed to degrade gracefully - it's easy to
take advantage of that.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 06:51:44 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:51:44 +0100
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A1@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[Sybren Stuvel]

Tim Golden enlightened us with:
> > Well, I'm with you. I'm sure a lot of people will chime in to point
> > out just how flexible and useful and productive Linux is as a
> > workstation, but every time I try to use it -- and I make an honest
> > effort -- I end up back in Windows

> I'm curious, what do you mean with "it" in the part "every time I try
> to use it"?

Fair question. I have, over the years, installed and used Gentoo,
Vector, RH, Ubuntu Breezy (my current choice) and various other 
flavours and distros. When I "use it" I mean typically that I use 
whatever desktop-type thing presents itself to me -- Gnome or XFCE 
or Fluxbox, say -- one or more editors (I tend to try things out to
see if they suit), and one or more command shells.

Aside from using Firefox & Thunderbird I'm usually only doing 
small-scale development things under Linux: perhaps reworking
Python code for my web sites which are hosted on Cornerhost's
Linux servers, or playing around with up-and-coming tools for
Python, a (very) few of which only work easily -- or at all --
under Linux.

> There are different distributions of Linux, and putting them all on
> one big pile is like saying "I've tried Windows, and I really don't
> like it's user interface" and referring to the interface of Windows
> 3.1.

Not quite fair. Not only would I avoid saying something with a
redundant apostrophe ;) but the Windows user interface, at least
for my purposes, didn't change such a huge amount between Win9x and
Win2K,
and if you turn off the bells and whistles in XP (which I do!) isn't
so terribly different there. Which, I imagine, is by design. People
like familiarity. Linux distros (and the appearance they choose) seem
to vary far more widely than versions of Windows.

As it happens, (and I suspect I'll have to don my flameproof suit here),
I prefer the Windows command line to bash/readline for day-to-day use, 
including in Python. Why? Because it does what I can't for the life of 
me get readline to do: you can type the first few letters of a 
previously-entered command and press F8. This brings up (going backwards

with further presses) the last command which starts like that. And
*then* 
you can just down-arrow to retrieve the commands which followed it. 
If someone can tell me how to do this with bash/readline I will be 
indebted to them and it will increase my chances of switching to Linux 
a bit! (Although not at work where I have no choice!)

It's obvious that everyone has a different way of working, and that I'm
more comfortable in Windows because all sorts of small familiarities I
can hardly articulate: the way the focus works; the shortcuts I've
developed;
the ability to drag files over things and have them respond. I'm very 
happy with many things in Linux, and I do use it from time to time, 
but it's never quite been enough to pull me away from Windows. Of
course,
I'm lucky enough to have a legal version of Windows to use; if someone
wants to avoid shelling out then of course Linux is even more
attractive.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
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From rich.teer at rite-group.com  Sun Oct  9 12:16:57 2005
From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:16:57 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.58.0510090915350.21577@excalibur>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Roedy Green wrote:

> Normally you send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.
> That is far more convenient for the technopeasant receiver than
> dealing with multiple attachments.

And even more convenient is "Hey grandma, check out the latest
photos on my web site: www.example.com/rich/photos".

> People keep thinking of email as a techie preserve.

Worse, people keep misusing email.

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich


From pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 07:06:07 2005
From: pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com (pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 04:06:07 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
Message-ID: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I want to scan a file byte for byte for occurences of the the four byte
pattern 0x00000100. I've tried with this:

# start
import sys

numChars = 0
startCode = 0
count = 0

inputFile = sys.stdin

while True:
    ch = inputFile.read(1)
    numChars += 1

    if len(ch) < 1: break

    startCode = ((startCode << 8) & 0xffffffff) | (ord(ch))
    if numChars < 4: continue

    if startCode == 0x00000100:
        count = count + 1

print count
# end

But it is very slow. What is the fastest way to do this? Using some
native call? Using a buffer? Using whatever?

/David



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 00:24:55 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:24:55 +0100
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <oPednZskKuQBj9beRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128969275.804305.193460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<oPednZskKuQBj9beRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <difeqp$isb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Harald Armin Massa wrote:
> 
>>"""
>>What is Python?
>>
>>Python is an interpreted, interactive, object-oriented programming
>>language. It is often compared to Tcl, Perl, Scheme or Java.
>>"""
>>taken from
>>http://www.python.org/doc/Summary.html
>>
>>maybe someone could update that???
> 
> 
> Maybe we should add '''...for some definitions of "interpreted", 
> "object-oriented", and perhaps even "interactive". '''
> 
> I've seen at least the first two debated endlessly here.
> 
> -Peter
And we definitely need "agile" in there. Bugger, I'll go out and come in 
again ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 20:15:31 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:15:31 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dj4373$lok$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>>>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.

> With training and/or a good dose of enlightened self-interest, most
> psychopaths are perfectly capable of learning to not be selfish vicious
> brutes who care only for themselves and perhaps a few others. Or rather,
> to stop *acting* as selfish vicious brutes. Not caring about the harm done
> by your corporate machinery is not a crime. Actually doing that harm is,
> or at least should be, although sadly when we allow the psychopaths to
> make the rules, they tend to make rules that allow themselves to prosper
> at our expense.

    You are making the assumption that Microsoft shareholders want Microsoft 
to do harm. *If* they did, you would be correct. I don't think that they do.

    DS




From rrr at ronadam.com  Fri Oct 14 14:52:06 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:52:06 GMT
Subject: object inheritance and default values
Message-ID: <q7T3f.14417$ae.3253@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>


I'm trying to implement simple svg style colored complex objects in 
tkinter and want to be able to inherit default values from other 
previously defined objects.

I want to something roughly similar to ...

    class shape(object):
         def __init__(self, **kwds):
              # set a bunch of general defaults here.
              self.__dict__.update(kwds)
	def draw(self, x=0, y=0, scale=1.0):
              # draw the object

    hello = shape(text='hello')
    redhello = hello(color='red')
    largeredhello = redhello(size=100)
    largeredhiya = largeredhello(text='Hiya!')
    largeredhiya.draw(c, 20, 50)


I think this will need to require __new__ or some other way to do it. 
But I'm not use how to get this kind of behavior.  Maybe the simplest 
way is to call a method.

    redhello = hello.makenew( color='red' )

But I want to be able to have all the objects access alike?

Hmmm..  I think maybe if if don't ever access shape (or Shape) directly 
in my data structure, then __new__ would work?  So my first default 
object should be an instance of shape with a __new__ method to create 
more?  Ok, off to try it.  But any comments will be welcome.

Cheers,
    Ron




From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 11:06:34 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:06:34 +0100
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>

On 27/10/05, Gregory Pi?ero <gregpinero at gmail.com> wrote:
> So much for writing my whole program on one line :-(

http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/pyone/

But you didn't hear it from me, OK? ;-)

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From jwkenne at attglobal.net  Tue Oct 18 14:59:35 2005
From: jwkenne at attglobal.net (John W. Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:59:35 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Ict4f.73$ns3.31539@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<mO74f.8726$vD4.549587@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4mi4f.28813$Ge5.16418@fe10.lga>
	<Ict4f.73$ns3.31539@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <xCb5f.29429$Ge5.9705@fe10.lga>

Rhino wrote:
> "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne at attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:4mi4f.28813$Ge5.16418 at fe10.lga...
> 
>>Rhino wrote:
>>
>>>Everyone
>>>else was still using typewriters - which was IBM's bread and butter in
> 
> those
> 
>>>days - for their business needs.
>>
>>Oh dear, no. Not quite. There were, going back decades, machines that
>>used punched cards, relays, stepper wheels, and punched cards. It was
>>/that/ that was the foundation of IBM's business, and IBM had an
>>effective monopoly. This was not altogether due to evil; their one
>>competitor, Remington Rand, made machines that were slightly better, but
>>had to be factory-programmed, whereas IBM's machines used panels full of
>>jumper wires, and the panels themselves could be swapped, so that you
>>could have a "program library" of prewired panels. Which would /you/ buy?
>>
>>Remington Rand made a similar mistake with computers. They wouldn't give
>>you a programming manual until you contracted to buy the bloody thing.
>>IBM pulled ahead of them during the year when Univac computers were real
>>and IBM computers weren't, and they never looked back.
>>
> 
> Sorry, my mistake. I knew that IBM had collators and such things back in
> those days but I didn't know what percentage of their business they
> comprised. I used to work with a long-time IBMer who had started out in
> marketing in the 60s or so and I got the impression from him that
> typewriters were still the bulk of IBM's business. Perhaps he was just in
> that division and didn't know the "big picture".

Typewriters may, for all I know to the contrary, have been their main 
source of profit. But it wasn't what IBM was /about/. They got into the 
typewriter business by buying up a failing company.

IBM also made master/slave clock systems for schools and factories, 
including tower clocks (the IBM website has some fascinating archive 
material). They made dictation systems. They even made scales for 
butchers. But the heart of the business was punched cards, and one of 
the main reasons they became the leaders in the computer field is that 
computers were a natural extension of what they were already doing.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"...when you're trying to build a house of cards, the last thing you 
should do is blow hard and wave your hands like a madman."
   --  Rupert Goodwins


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 15 13:37:04 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:37:04 GMT
Subject: Here I am again, same old arguments
References: <wg32f.411657$x96.212964@attbi_s72>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.15.12.523844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96EE1F36ADD78cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
	<pan.2005.10.13.12.57.16.837443@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <6gf2l1pns687g453dvh9hkk9dl63pcblgn@4ax.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
>
>Global variables aren't *entirely* bad. I use them myself, sometimes for
>constants (well, pseudo-constants -- Python doesn't enforce constants) and
>short, quick 'n' dirty throw away code.
>
>But in general, as your code gets bigger and more complicated, using
>global variables gets more dangerous, unreliable, harder to debug, and
>generally a bad idea. Let me show you some examples.

This gets my vote for post-of-the-week.  If there were a bulletin board
that was required reading for beginning programmers, this would definitely
need to be tacked up to it.

Nice work.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct  1 11:21:03 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 15:21:03 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <3q6of3Fddg7eU1@individual.net>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <dhk1jj$7ri$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<3q5nmhFdbcpbU1@individual.net>
	<z2j%e.111101$4i6.23453@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<3q6of3Fddg7eU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <zPx%e.125625$xl6.65960@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:

> Ron Adam

>>I think I'm going to make it a habit to put parentheses around these 
>>things just as if they were required.


> Yes, that's the best way to make it readable and understandable.
> 
> Reinhold

Now that the syntax is settled, I wonder if further discussion on the 
contextual behavior could be done?  Or maybe it was already done off 
line or in private email?

To me the advantage of a if b else c form is the easy chaining to build 
up a sum of conditional parts, where each next part is dependent on the 
previous result.

The advantage of the nested form, is it can be used in place of an 
if-elif-else structure.  But I think the (a if b else c) syntax doesn't 
match that behavior very well so I was expecting the default behavior to 
be the sequential chaining and not nested evaluation.

But of course, by explicitly placing parentheses, you can do either. 
<Shrug>

Cheers,
Ron










From brusstoc at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 00:11:16 2005
From: brusstoc at gmail.com (brusstoc at gmail.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 21:11:16 -0700
Subject: NEWBIE
In-Reply-To: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130472676.863528.211540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Check out http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld. His tutorial is
great, covering basic programming using pythion examples.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 08:32:00 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:32:00 +0100
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <1128428782.4070.42.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>	
	<1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>	
	<1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org>
	<1128428782.4070.42.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
Message-ID: <43427640.3010707@holdenweb.com>

Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 17:37, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Carsten Haese wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 16:41, Carsten Haese wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 15:52, Jacob Kroon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
>>>>>First let me
>>>>>describe the scenario with an example:
>>>>>
>>>>>modules/
>>>>>   fruit/
>>>>>       __init__.py
>>>>>       apple.py
>>>>>       banana.py
>>>>>
>>>>>apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
>>>>>problem lies in the
>>>>>fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
>>>>>peach.py, and not change
>>>>>__init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
>>>>>__init__.py. I've come halfway
>>>>>by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
>>>>>that the instantiated
>>>>>objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
>>>>>I want it to be
>>>>>fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
>>>>>If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
>>>>>be very grateful.
>>>>
>>>>How about something like this in fruit/__init__.py:
>>>>
>>>>import os
>>>>
>>>>fruit_dir = os.path.dirname(__file__)
>>>>fruit_files = [x for x in os.listdir(fruit_dir) if (x[-3:]=='.py' and x!='__init__.py')]
>>>>for fruit_file in fruit_files:
>>>> module_name = fruit_files[:-3]
>>>
>>>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^ This should be fruit_file, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> exec "from %s import *" % module_name
>>>>
>>
>>Wouldn't
>>
>>     __import__(module_name)
>>
>>be better.
> 
> 
> I don't see how a working example that meets the OP's requirements can
> be constructed using __import__, but that may easily be due to my lack
> of imagination. How would you do it?
> 
I was simply suggesting that you replace the exec statement with a call 
to __import__(). Wouldn't that work?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Oct 11 04:50:22 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:50:22 +0200
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <1129015921.510133.322350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r08l2Fgbm87U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129015921.510133.322350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r1cmeFgbogbU2@uni-berlin.de>

> My scripts are used to create the tables in the database. I didn't
> think that DB-API covered that. 

The DB-Api covers executin arbirary SQL - either DDL or DML. It is 
surely centered around DML, but that doesn't mean that its not usabel to 
issue "create ..." statements.

 >However, even if it did, I don't think
> it would handle differences such as the following.

<snip>

All that has nocthing to do with teh API - you'd still need your 
differentiated DDL - but the communication with the programs would go away.

Diez


From jeffrey.schwab at rcn.com  Sun Oct  2 16:24:56 2005
From: jeffrey.schwab at rcn.com (Jeff Schwab)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:24:56 -0400
Subject: Program help
In-Reply-To: <1128283048.975696.101760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128283048.975696.101760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dY2dneqc_NSB393eRVn-tA@rcn.net>

FX wrote:
> can anybody write a code for a program that reads from a
> /location/file & according to file contents, it execute script. e.g. if
> file contains "mp" it runs media player.
> I hope the code is small .. plz help me out!

You might be interested in the FileInfo class, defined and thoroughly 
explained in _Dive Into Python_.

http://diveintopython.org/object_oriented_framework/index.html


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 04:37:11 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:37:11 +0200
Subject: New User
References: <djeq29+5mv7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dji6fo$pam$1@sea.gmane.org>

"thatchmatic" wrote:

> I just downloaded and I think installed python.  I am not sure if I
> did cause it does'nt respond to the commands that the read me file
> told me to use.  Also can someone suggest a trial program I can maybe
> write for fun?

what happens when you type

    python

at a command prompt ?

if you get a

    >>>

prompt, what happens if you type print "hello" at that prompt?

    >>> print "hello"

if that appears to do what it says, what happens if you type

    >>> import this

if all this seems to do something other than printing "syntax error" or
"unknown command" or similar stuff, point your browser to this page:

    http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html

and work through the first few chapters.

otherwise, post the error messages.

</F>





From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Oct 10 08:13:40 2005
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:13:40 +0200
Subject: Windows installer, different versions of Python on Windows
Message-ID: <434a5a94$0$38651$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

I would like to install several copies of Python 2.4.2 on my machine, 
but it doesn't seem to be possible.

If I allready has a version installed, the installer only gives the 
options to:

- change python 2.4.2
- repair python 2.4.2
- remove python 2.4.2

I would like to install different versions of Zope 3, and since it is 
installed under a specific python version, the simplest solution would 
be to install several Python versions, and install a different zope3 
version under each python install.

Have I misunderstood something here?


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From renting at astron.nl  Fri Oct 14 13:04:01 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:04:01 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
Message-ID: <s3500137.048@server7.nfra.nl>


 
 
>>>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> 10/14/05 5:39 pm >>> 
#"Adriaan Renting" <renting at astron.nl> writes: 
#[On Qt] 
#...
#[mike on qt for Mac Os X]
#...

I've looked some more into this, and it seems that the confusion is because Qt on Mac maps:

Command/Apple key -> Qt::Key_Control
Ctrl Key          -> Qt::Key_Meta
Alt/Option Key    -> Qt::Key_Alt

because the use of the Command/Apple key is similar to how in Windows and KDE the Ctrl key is used.
This results in Command-S being Save, Command-A being Select All, which seems to be the way it's supposed on Apple, but it creates confusion if cross-platform documentation would say Ctrl-A is Select All, because this isn't true on Apple. Maybe the Apple GUI guidelines can answer how it should be.

How do other widget sets handle this? do they use: 
Command/Apple key -> Key_Meta
Ctrl Key          -> Key_Control
Alt/Option Key    -> Key_Alt

Adriaan Renting.


From alexs at advfn.com  Tue Oct 18 08:21:40 2005
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:21:40 +0100
Subject: Hygenic Macros
In-Reply-To: <s355041c.073@server7.nfra.nl>
References: <s355041c.073@server7.nfra.nl>
Message-ID: <51543672-464E-4C0D-8982-089C15821709@advfn.com>

I seem to remember a rather ugly hack at some point in the past that  
created a new "operator" like so

A |dot| B

where dot was an object which had the OR operator for left and right  
arguments redefined seperately so that it only made sense when used  
in that syntax.

I guess you could hack something together along the same lines. I  
just wish I could remember what it was called, it's on the  
ActiveState Cookbook somewhere.

On 18 Oct 2005, at 13:17, Adriaan Renting wrote:

> Using numarray/pylab there's also dot:
>
>>>> from pylab import *
>>>> A = array(range(10))
>>>> B = array(range(10))
>>>> A * B
>>>>
> [ 0, 1, 4, 9,16,25,36,49,64,81,]
>
>>>> dot(A, B)
>>>>
> 285
>
> It might also make your code more readable. I would like "A dot B",  
> but even using ipython
> I can only get as close as "dot A, B"
>
>
>>>> Dan Farina <nntp.20.drfarina at recursor.net> 10/18/05 1:33 pm >>>
>>>>
> David Pokorny wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one
>> good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can
>> multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise
>> multiplication). In Python, I have to type
>>
>> import Numeric
>> matrixmultiply(A,B)
>>
>> which makes my code almost unreadable.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David
>>
>
> The problem here is that Python's parse trees are of non-trivial  
> ugliness.
>
> A page on the compiler.ast module:
> http://docs.python.org/lib/node792.html
>
> it is, in fact, perfectly possible to write yourself a pre- 
> processor for
> your particular application.  You may have to fiddle with the token  
> you
> want for notation depending on how the AST fleshes out (% is used  
> by at
> least a couple of things, after all).  My cursory familiarity with
> python grammar suggests to me that this particular choice of token  
> could
> be a problem.
>
> I would say try it and see.  Keep in mind though that since  
> Python's AST
> is not a trivial matter like it is in Lisp and the like that doing
> metaprogramming of this sort probably falls into the category of black
> magic unless it turns out to be very trivial.
>
> Another option is to define your own tiny class that will override the
> __mult__ method so that you can simply do:
>
> A * B
>
> Which may not be what you want.
>
> df
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 17 15:46:05 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:46:05 +0200
Subject: Repost: Text not showing up
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2146.1129535557.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <434FADFA.8050302@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2146.1129535557.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ridbuFjsoctU1@uni-berlin.de>

>> Hi all, I am new to python and trying to write a simple GUI that would 
>> call 2 growisofs processes (dvd burning) at the same time, and retrive 
>> the exit code to be printed on a text box (couldn't find any program 
>> that could use multiple dvd burners, not even k3b). Excuse me if this 
>> is really a simple problem, but two days of googling didn't help.
>> The program is really simple, I developed the GUI using glade and it 
>> works.
>> The only thing I would like to improve is that I'd like it to show in 
>> the text boxes messages like "Waiting for use input" or "Burning dvd 
>> please wait", but it looks like even though I don't have any error, 
>> the message won't show up until the burning process is finished 
>> (showing either "burning successfully" or "an error occurred").
>> I am not sure I made myself clear on this, but I will post the 
>> relevant code trying to explain it:

The problem is that the changes take effect after gtk has reentered its 
event-loop. Which won't happen until your programs terminate.

If your goal is only to display the messages, there is certainly a way 
to process the event loop for one iteration. Try and google for GTK 
event loops.

If you want to display an continuous update, you will have to install a 
timer event, and start the burning as subprocesses.

Regards,

Diez


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 12:53:15 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 09:53:15 -0700
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
In-Reply-To: <1130335059.740804.271010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86vezk1khe.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130335059.740804.271010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130345595.405529.259110@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Of course it is better to precompile the expression, but I guess
replace will beat even a precompiled regular expression. You could see
this posting:
http://groups.google.nl/group/comp.lang.python/msg/32af24eab9024f60?&hl=nl&q=replace+re+speed+python+sub

But performance should be measured, not guessed.

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 28 05:17:33 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 02:17:33 -0700
Subject: How to translate python into C
Message-ID: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   First, I want to know whether the python interpreter translate the
code directly into machine code, or translate it into C then into
machine code?
   Second, if the codes are translated directly into machine codes, how
can I translate the codes into C COMPLETELY the same? if the codes are
translated first into C, where can I get the C source?
   Thanks for your help.

Regards, 
Johnny



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 10:35:13 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:35:13 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
	<1130647542.669549.300360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130650215.537552.231990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h58k4p.12xd7rj1t5peh0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't know about this particular case but sometimes, I don't want to
> have a default argument value. That is, argument not there is different
> from argument = None. Though in general, I prefer the None as special
> meaning coding style. But even python's builtin function prefers to
> distinguish between "not there" and None.

the canonical idiom when you need such distinction is:

_not_there = object()
def foo(bar=_not_there, baz=_not_there, bap=_not_there):
    if bar is _not_there: ...

Other unique objects can be substituted for the 'sentinel', but I prefer
an empty "object()" because it has no other possible meaning except that
of a distinguishable, identifiable sentinel.  IOW, you could set the
_not_there name to [] or {} or many other things, but that could be
slightly confusing for the reader (since the other things might have
other meanings and purposes) while 'object()' shouldn't be.

At any rate, the complicated code I was commenting on did treat absent
expected arguments exactly the same way as arguments passed as None,
which is also a frequent use case, so this further level of refinement
was apparently not warranted ("use only as much power as you need" is a
programming principle that tends to promote simplicity, and therefore,
in many cases, is well worth adhering to).


Alex


From frank at chagford.com  Tue Oct 11 03:32:01 2005
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:32:01 -0700
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <3r08l2Fgbm87U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128940255.694551.318760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r08l2Fgbm87U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129015921.510133.322350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > Thanks, Steve and Diez, for the replies. I didn't think it was
> > possible, but it was worth asking :-)
> >
> > I will try to explain my experience with popen() briefly.
> >
> > I have some sql scripts to create tables, indexes, procedures, etc. At
> > present there are about 50 scripts, but this number will grow. I have
> > been running them manually so far. Now I want to automate the process.
> >
> > I am supporting PostgreSQL and MS SQL Server, and the syntax is
> > slightly different in some cases. Rather than maintain two sets of
> > scripts, I prefix some lines with -pg- or -ms- to indicate the
> > platform, and then use Python to parse the scripts and generate a
> > correct output for each platform, passing it to 'psql' and 'osql'
> > respectively, using popen().
>
> Why don't youn use te python DB-Api instead?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Diez

My scripts are used to create the tables in the database. I didn't
think that DB-API covered that. However, even if it did, I don't think
it would handle differences such as the following.

For Unicode support, PostgreSQL uses the character-set specified when
the database is created. SQL Server allows you to specify it for each
column, using the datatype NCHAR and NVARCHAR instead of CHAR and
VARCHAR.

PostgreSQL uses data types called DATE and TIMESTAMP. SQL Server uses
DATETIME (it also uses TIMESTAMP, but that is used for something else).

Both DBMS's have the concept of a column which is automatically
assigned a 'next number' each time a row is created, but the syntax for
defining the column is completely different.

PostgreSQL allows the use of a WHERE clause when creating an INDEX,
which is useful if you only want to index a subset of a table.

SQL Server has the concept of a CLUSTERED INDEX, whereby it stores the
rows physically in index sequence. It defaults to using a clustered
index for the primary key. Often this is not what you want, so it is
desirable to specify the primary key as NONCLUSTERED, and then specify
a CLUSTERED index for a more frequently used column.

These are just a few of the differences, but you get the idea. If there
is a better way to do this in a cross-platform manner, I would love to
know how.

Thanks

Frank



From belred at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 01:56:18 2005
From: belred at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:56:18 -0700
Subject: bizarro world (was Re: Python Doc Problem Example: sort() (reprise))
In-Reply-To: <1129071507.829655.252340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129071507.829655.252340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dii8hv$rsp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Addendum, 200510
> 
> Here's further example of Python's extreme low quality of
> documentation. In particular, what follows focuses on the bad writing
> skill aspect, and comments on some language design and quality issues
> of Python.
> 
>>From the Official Python documentation of the sort() method, at:
> http://python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/typesseq-mutable.html, Quote:
> 
> ?The sort() method takes optional arguments for controlling the
> comparisons.?
> 
> It should be ?optional parameter? not ?optional argument?.
> Their difference is that ?parameter? indicates the variable, while
> ?argument? indicates the actual value.
> 
> ?... for controlling the comparisons.?
> 
> This is a bad writing caused by lack of understanding. No, it doesn't
> ?control the comparison?. The proper way to say it is that ?the
> comparison function specifies an order?.
> 
> ?The sort() and reverse() methods modify the list in place for economy
> of space when sorting or reversing a large list. To remind you that
> they operate by side effect, they don't return the sorted or reversed
> list. ?
> 
> This is a example of tech-geeking drivel. The sort() and reverse()
> methods are just the way they are. Their design and behavior are really
> not for some economy or remind programers of something. The Python doc
> is bulked with these irrelevant drivels. These littered inanities
> dragged down the whole quality and effectiveness of the doc implicitly.
> 
> ?Changed in version 2.4: Support for key and reverse was added.?
> 
> ?In general, the key and reverse conversion processes are much faster
> than specifying an equivalent cmp function. This is because cmp is
> called multiple times for each list element while key and reverse touch
> each element only once.?
> 
> When sorting something, one needs to specify a order. The easiest way
> is to simply list all the elements as a sequence. That way, their order
> is clearly laid out. However, this is in general not feasible and
> impractical. Therefore, we devised a mathematically condensed way to
> specify the order, by defining a function f(x,y) that can take any two
> elements and tell us which one comes first. This, is the gist of
> sorting a list in any programing language.
> 
> The ordering function, being a mathematically condensed way of
> specifying the order, has some constraints. For example, the function
> should not tell us x < y and y < x. (For a complete list of these
> constraints, see http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html )
> 
> With this ordering function, it is all sort needed to sort a list.
> Anything more is interface complexity.
> 
> The optional parameters ?key? and ?reverse? in Python's sort
> method is a interface complexity. What happened here is that a compiler
> optimization problem is evaded by moving it into the language syntax
> for programers to worry about. If the programer does not use the
> ?key? syntax when sorting a large matrix (provided that he knew in
> advance of the list to be sorted or the ordering function), then he is
> penalized by a severe inefficiency by a order of magnitude of execution
> time.
> 
> This situation, of moving compiler problems to the syntax surface is
> common in imperative languages.
> 
> ?Changed in version 2.3: Support for None as an equivalent to omitting
> cmp was added.?
> 
> This is a epitome of catering towards morons. ?myList.sort()? is
> perfect but Pythoners had to add ?myList.sort(None)? interface
> complexity just because idiots need it.
> 
> The motivation here is simple: a explicit ?None? gives coding
> monkeys a direct sensory input of the fact that ?there is no
> comparison function?. This is like the double negative in black
> English ?I ain't no gonna do it!?. Logically, ?None? is not
> even correct and leads to bad thinking. What really should be stated in
> the doc, is that ?the default ordering function to sort() is the
> ?cmp? function.?.
> 
> ?Starting with Python 2.3, the sort() method is guaranteed to be
> stable. A sort is stable if it guarantees not to change the relative
> order of elements that compare equal -- this is helpful for sorting in
> multiple passes (for example, sort by department, then by salary
> grade).?
> 
> One is quite surprised to read this. For about a decade of a language's
> existence, its sort functionality is not smart enough to preserve
> order?? A sort that preserves original order isn't something difficult
> to implement. What we have here is sloppiness and poor quality common
> in OpenSource projects.
> 
> Also note the extreme low quality of the writing. It employes the
> jargon ?stable sort? then proceed to explain what it is, and the
> latch on of ?multiple passes? and the mysterious ?by department,
> by salary?.
> 
> Here's a suggested rewrite: ?Since Python 2.3, the result of sort()
> no longer rearrange elements where the comparison function returns
> 0.?
> -----------
> This post is archived at:
> http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
> 
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 


omg!!! wow!!! after reading this i feel like i just stepped in to some bizarro 
world.  this entire posting is like something you would read in the onion. 
unfortunately this posting has just enough real words mixed with BS that a 
newbie might actually fall for this stuff.  i think mr. xah has published enough 
python satire by now that we could probably make a nice bathroom reading book 
"python untechgeeked".  sorry folks, i'm still laughing... i just don't get how 
someone can go on and on and on, day after day, month after month writing this 
stuff that is so completely off base that you wonder if he's looking at the same 
python as we are.  mr. xah, why do you spend so much time agonizing over a 
language you obviously don't like.  why is python so important to you that you 
are willing to waste so much of your life on this?  there is obviously something 
else i'm not seeing here.  is there a pschologist in the house?  can someone 
explain xah to me?  is he clinically depressed? suicidal? does he have signs of 
a serial murderer?  does he need a girl friend and a social life?  or maybe just 
take a yoga class? could these ramblings of his simply be on days that he 
doesn't take his medication?  i'm starting to think he is not simply just a 
troll.  i think there might be something seriously wrong with him and this is 
just his way of asking for help.  maybe i'm wrong, there was just something is 
his last writings that made think he's hurting inside.



From garyr at fidalgo.net  Tue Oct 11 21:20:33 2005
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (garyr at fidalgo.net)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 18:20:33 -0700
Subject: pyparallel and MAKE controller board for CRYDOM AC/DC switches
References: <xtE2f.19349$3w.3054@trnddc07>
Message-ID: <1129080033.448724.218970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Richard Siderits wrote:
> Greetings.  I am trying to write a small application for controlling CRYDOM
> AC and DC switches from the parallel port using pyparallel.  The project is
> described in the latest issue of MAKE magazine Vol.3 pg 86.  All of the
> examples are in C, VB, Linux, Unix but not a thing in Python.  Seems like a
> perfect application for a Python program or even a simple windowed app.
> Problem is I'm stuck.  How, for example, would I format the setData() to
> turn off data PIN 3?   If I knew that then.. Life, the Universe and
> Everything would be better.
>
> Progress so far:
>
> import parallel, time, ctypes
> p=parallel.Parallel(1)
> p.setData(0)
> p.setDataStrobe(0)
> print "Boy are you stuck!"
>
> THANKS for any help!!

Here is some code that may do what you want:

from parallel import *
class P:
    def __init__(self, port):
        self.dataReg = 0
        self.p = Parallel(port)

    def setData(self, value):
        self.dataReg = value
        self.p.setData(value)

    def setDataBit(self, bit, value):
        assert 0 <= bit <= 7
        assert 0 <= value <= 1
        mask = 1 << bit
        self.dataReg = (self.dataReg & ~mask)
        if value:
            self.dataReg += mask
        self.p.setData(self.dataReg)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import msvcrt, time
    bit = 1
    pyp = P(LPT1)
    pyp.setData(0xff)           # set all bits high
    print 'all bits high'
    while not msvcrt.kbhit():
        time.sleep(0.1)
    ch = msvcrt.getch()
    while 1:
        pyp.setDataBit(bit, 0)      # set bit <bit> low
        print 'bit %d low' % (bit, )
        while not msvcrt.kbhit():
            time.sleep(0.1)
        ch = msvcrt.getch()
        if ord(ch) == 27:       # esc
            break
        pyp.setDataBit(bit, 1)      # now high
        print 'bit %d high' % (bit, )
        while not msvcrt.kbhit():
            time.sleep(0.1)
        ch = msvcrt.getch()
        if ord(ch) == 27:       # esc
            break



From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Mon Oct 10 09:52:48 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:52:48 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Qmu2f.1000$U9.201@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> wrote:
> In comp.lang.java.programmer Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote or quoted:
>> Only if your photos are so obscure and confusing that they need captions.
 
>> "Here's Johnny with the dog. Here is Johnny with the dog again. This one
>> is Johnny on his own. Here is the dog. Oh look, it is Johnny with the dog
>> again -- that's the dog on the left, in case it isn't clear. Just for a
>> change, this is Johnny wearing a hat. It is blue with a feather in it,
>> in case you couldn't tell from, oh I don't know, looking at the actual
>> picture."
 
> What have you got against captions?
 
> Giving photos captions is a *very* common practice.

Why not just put them on a web page? It is then possible to include
thumbnails so the recipient can chose to see which ones he cares to
look at in detail.

It also allows the web address to be sent to several people
without wasting bandwith.

Axel


From lycka at carmen.se  Thu Oct  6 08:24:19 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:24:19 +0200
Subject: Extending Python
In-Reply-To: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di351k$cr2$1@wake.carmen.se>

Tuvas wrote:
> I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C code. I
> have an application built in C that I need to be able to use in Python.
> I have searched through various sources, starting of course with the
> Python site itself, and others, but I felt a bit lacking from the
> Python site, it seems it was only made for those who installed the
> source distribution, as for the other people... Anyways, thanks for the
> help!

There are several options. Besides the manual way described in the
Python docs and SWIG that Miki mentioned, there is for instance the
option of using Pyrex. See http://ldots.org/pyrex-guide/ and
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Tue Oct 18 10:41:31 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:41:31 GMT
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vQ75f.2004$dO2.699@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

True and I had to give up emacs when I went to eclipse, but it was well
worth it.

I seem to recall that sourcenavigator allowed to configure an external
editor (or maybe was it sniff+ ?)

Regards,
Philippe



Chris Lasher wrote:

> Thanks for your responses, guys. I can't get the PIDA page to come up
> for me; server timeout error. I'll have to look into Eclipse more, but
> I've been warned that it's resource greedy and that the VI plugin
> doesn't provide very much functionality. Still, that's hearsay, so I'll
> have to find out for myself.
> 
> I would have figured Vim or VI editing behavior would be a lot more
> prevalent in IDEs but it seems to be quite rare. I don't understand
> that, because a lot of people seem to use IDEs, and a lot of people
> seem to use VI/Vim or Emacs. Is it the young guns that are tied to the
> IDEs, never knowing powerful text-editors exist, and old dogs sticking
> to their favorite editors, not giving in to all those "distracting"
> bells and whistles of IDEs? What's the deal? A marriage of the two
> would seem like the best of both worlds.
> 
> Chris



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 23:09:35 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:09:35 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.03.09.33.809569@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:47:09 +0000, John Bokma wrote:

> Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web based, 
> and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions matter? It 
> doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example, OpenOffice. Yet 
> people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one reason is that people 
> like to belong to a group. So even if it really doesn't matter which OS 
> you are going to use to access a web application, or even which browser, 
> people will pick a certain browser, and a certain OS, just because.

Dude, do you think that Microsoft gives a rat's tail[1] for what a handful
of computer enthusiasts and geek programmers pick? They want to control
the business world, and believe me, corporations don't pick the OS of
their computer because they want to join a community, they pick the OS
that lets them run the applications that their business needs to run.

Operating-system independent browser-based applications threaten the
ability of Microsoft to tie that choice to Windows. That is why MS decided
to bundle IE with Windows and (try to) kill off Netscape as a competitor.





[1] Or any other part of the rat.


-- 
Steven.



From mhykes at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 18:39:04 2005
From: mhykes at gmail.com (mhykes at gmail.com)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 15:39:04 -0700
Subject: Python on the Power PC
References: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	<mailman.1825.1128928745.509.python-list@python.org>
	<6ID2f.21$QL5.426@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <1129415944.336861.63730@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm using the same distribution (or at least that is what I started
with). Try using the following sitecustomize.py file:

###### sitecustomize.py ######
import sys
syspath = sys.path
libpath = '\\Program Files\\Python\\Lib'
syspath.append(libpath+'\\lib-tk')
sys.path = none
sys.path = syspath
##############################

You will need to extract the python23.zip into \Program
Files\Python\Lib, then add the sitecustomize.py file to the same
directory.  Then Python should be able to find the Tkinter module that
it is complaining about.

- Matt



From chris2k01 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 13 01:57:35 2005
From: chris2k01 at hotmail.com (Chris Head)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:57:35 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Ilb2f.18523$bb3.758915@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>
	<7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <jHm3f.10322$y_1.6593@edtnps89>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thunderbird is nice that way. You can tell it to render HTML by default,
and even images if they're included in the body of the e-mail, but tell
it to NOT render anything which requires connections to external servers
unless you click a Show Images button. I think Hotmail does a similar thing.

Chris

Paul Rubin wrote:
[snip]
> That's the worst of all.  I certainly don't want my mail reader
> opening network connections to arbitrary places when I read my mail.
> I have no willingness at all to reveal my mail reading habits or IP
> address to everyone who sends me email.  If someone wants a return
> receipt, they can use snail mail and fill out a form at the post
> office for it.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: GnuPT 2.7.2
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDTfdO6ZGQ8LKA8nwRAuSGAJ4+U6oSZrrO500FptiEGuAYrtXZlwCfYpQP
1TEMkwZwjevSwh+GfR72BlA=
=Xpel
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From eric.pederson at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 17:03:02 2005
From: eric.pederson at gmail.com (EP)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 14:03:02 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130446982.420401.12810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Was this a test of Godwin's Law?

Hitler wasn't mentioned explicitly, but he was certainly implied in the
initial post.

So we learn:

Hitler must be _explicitly_ mentioned to invoke Godwin's Law

(or)

Xah Lee is immune from the central laws of the universe


Personally I suspect Xah Lee is a bot and that is why the Laws of the
Universe do not apply to him.

A "troll bot" I say.  An AI program whose logic simply works on the
minimal basic principles required to generate conflict.  Response
capabilities are still alpha, but will augment the basic conflict
generating capabilities in future releases.

It's currently considered "Freeware" but tastes nothing like free beer.


EP



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 08:09:15 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:09:15 +0200
Subject: overiding assignment in module
References: <1130241362.081637.105410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djl79b$8hi$1@sea.gmane.org>

Viktor Marohnic wrote:

> I would to do something like this.
>
> container = []
>
> p1 = point()
> l1 = line()
>
> and i would like to override = method of the module so that its puts
> all objects into container.
> how i can do something like that.

you cannot, at least not as you've described the problem.  assignment is not
an operator in Python; it's a statement that modifies the current namespace.

things you can do include

- use an explicit target object

        x.p1 = point()
        x.l1 = line()

- execute the script in a controlled fashion, and inspect the resulting namespace:

        myscript = """
        p1 = point()
        l1 = line()
        """

        # create a new namespace, and add "built-in" functions to it
        namespace = {}
        namespace["point"] = point
        namespace["line"] = line

        # execute the script in this namespace
        exec myscript in namespace

        for key, item in namespace.iteritems():
            ...

</F> 





From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 23 12:23:14 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:23:14 -0400
Subject: How to separate directory list and file list?
In-Reply-To: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
References: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <v62dnSnz3sNHJcbeRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Gonnasi wrote:
> With
>>glob.glob("*")
> or
>>os.listdir(cwd)
> 
> I can get a combined file list with directory list, but I just wanna a
> bare file list, no directory list. How to get it?

Using Jason Orendorff's path module, it's just this:

 >>> from path import path
 >>> path('.').files()  # returns list of files in current dir


-Peter


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 21:46:53 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:46:53 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.01.46.50.621450@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:17:20 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>>>     Microsoft goal is and should be their own success, not the success of
>>> the economy or the market in general.
> 
>> Neither I, nor you, nor the government of any nation, should care a
>> monkey's toss specifically for Microsoft's success. Microsoft is one
>> special interest, out of a potentially unbounded number of possible
>> players in the economy of a country and the world.
> 
>     No, not at all. It is the gravest act of self-contradiction to maintain 
> that one should be allowed to pursue one's own interest while denying that 
> same right to others.

This is perhaps the most ignorant thing I've seen written down by somebody
educated for a long, long long time. An individual's self-interest may
very well include theft, murder or rape, to mention just a few examples.

Pursuing one's own self-interest is not and never has been an unrestricted
right. At the point that your self-interest harms others, civilization
steps in and slaps you down. You are not allowed to pursue your own
self-interest by dumping your trash over the fence into your neighbour's
back yard. You are not allowed to pursue your own self-interest by putting
a bullet in the brain of that annoying busker on the sub-way playing
Beatles tunes badly. You are not allowed to pursue your own self-interest
in breaking into your neighbour's home and stealing his property. And
neither are you allowed to pursue your own self-interest by engaging in
predatory and anti-competitive business practices.

Now perhaps you personally would like to live in a society where Steve
Ballmer, pursuing Microsoft's own interests, is allowed to have Google CEO
Eric Schmidt gut-shot and left to bleed to death in the gutter, but I
think the vast majority of people think that behaviour like that should be
discouraged, no matter how much money that would make Microsoft.


>> Unless you or I are specifically shareholders in Microsoft, we should
>> not care about their specific success; and the government should be
>> entirely agnostic about who are the winners and losers in an economy.
> 
>     We should certainly care that Microsoft be allowed to pursue their
>     own
> success. The government should be agnostic about who the winners and
> losers are, but must respect each entity's right to attempt to be that
> winner.

Certainly. Like any other entity, Microsoft is allowed to live it's "life"
any way it sees fit, so long as it obeys the law. At the point it breaks
the law, then, like any other legal person, Microsoft should be punished,
by fines, prohibitions, seizure of property, and if need be, the death
penalty.

Or would you like to suggest that Microsoft's board of directors should be
allowed carte blache to break any law, commit any deed, so long as it
makes Microsoft money? 


>> The
>> government's role should be to ensure a level playing field, and
>> minimum levels of health, safety and environmental standards. There is
>> no place for government giving special-interests like Microsoft
>> favours.
> 
>     The problem is, people complain when the playing field is in fact
>     level.
> For example, Microsoft's "exclusionary" Windows agreements didn't ask
> for more than Windows was worth (or nobody would have agreed to them).
> Yet they are considered examples of the playing field not being level.

Microsoft's exclusively agreements -- no need for scare quotes -- gave
people the choice, sign this agreement or go out of business. As such,
they are as level a playing field as a thug demanding a restaurant pay
"insurance" to him or "lot of flammable goods in your kitchen, terrible if
it were to burn down".

Microsoft's behaviour was merely smoother, wearing an expensive suit, and
written up in lots of legal language, but in effect it was no different:
do what we want, or we'll put you out of business.


>> Society regulates where and how we park our cars: for instance, none of
>> us are allowed to park our car in the middle of busy road. and if we
>> try, our car is likely to be impounded. This is not because there is
>> anything in and of itself *wrong* with parking at such-and-such a
>> place, but because of the effect it has on others.
> 
>     Umm, no. It's because the government owns the roads and operates
>     them
> for the benefit of all. This analogy applies *only* to government
> property.

Perhaps you should stop and think for a moment about privately owned toll
roads.

You, as a private individual, are not allowed to detonate a small nuclear
warhead, even on your own property. The government prohibits you from
carrying explosives on privately owned airplanes. I didn't notice the Bush
government shrugging their shoulders and saying "Hey, the World Trade
Centre is private property, it is none of *our* business what people do to
it" a few years back. Perhaps you might say that it was none of the
government's business, if private individuals wish to fly planes into
privately owned buildings, but fortunately no government in the world
agrees with you.



>> A sensible government cares for smooth flowing traffic on the roads,
>> with the minimum of delays and the maximum flow practical.
> 
>     You could replace "government" with "road owner" and the analogy
>     would
> then be correct. Governments don't give a damn if traffic flows smoothly
> on private roads.

Yeah, tell that to the operators of CityLink in Melbourne.

>> Perhaps Walmart or Safeway might find it convenient to park their
>> trucks on public roads for any number of reasons. Too bad for them: the
>> benefit to them does not outweigh the loss to everyone else, even if
>> they don't specifically block access to their competitors.
> 
>     And this is what any road owner would do.

Not if the road was owned by the people blocking their competitors'
traffic.

[snip]

>>> Microsoft's status of a "monopolist"
>>> is only meaningful if you define the market as "desktop operating
>>> systems for 32-bit x86 computers".
> 
>> That is *precisely* the market we're talking about. Not "any item that
>> runs off electricity", not "orange juice", not "pork bellies", not "all
>> computing devices", but desktop PCs. What did you think the Justice
>> Department's investigation was about? Motor vehicles?
> 
>     I thought it was about operating systems, actually. 

How stupid do you think we are, that we are unable to tell the difference
between a market and a product? Microsoft's *products* under investigation
in the DoJ case were the operating system and web browser, but the
*market* was the desktop PC market.


> And I thought
>     that both OSX and Linux competed with it.

As you know, because you have been following this thread, an economic
monopoly does not mean that the monopolist is literally the only player in
town. Even today, when Microsoft's effective marketshare has fallen from
97% to maybe as low as 90%, they still hold a monopoly in both the
operating system and the office suite in the desktop PC market.


>>> There is no way Microsoft could have expected the market to be defined
>>> in this way and no way to argue that Microsoft had any reason to
>>> believe their conduct was illegal.
> 
>> Microsoft have lawyers. Microsoft destroyed emails and at least one
>> senior manager perjured himself in court. Microsoft created a fake
>> video demonstration which they then gave as evidence. Do you really
>> believe that Microsoft's executives are so incompetent that they don't
>> get legal advice before writing up contracts? Or that nobody in
>> authority at Microsoft realised that destroying evidence and lying to a
>> judge are crimes?
> 
>     When a criminal willing to use force points a gun at your head, you
>     lie
> to him.

Well don't this just take the biscuit. Judges investigating crimes are
criminals pointing guns. I wonder whether you are this understanding about
accused muggers and liquor-store robbers, or if it is only white guys in
business suits that get your sympathy?


>> In any case, even if you are right that Microsoft had no ideas... so
>> what? Ignorance of the law never has been an excuse for criminal
>> behaviour. It has always been every individual's responsibility to make
>> sure that they do not act illegally, and that goes for companies as
>> well.
> 
>     I am not saying Microsoft did not know the law. I am saying that no
> rational person could have expected the law to be applied to Microsoft
> that way it was. 

No rational person could have expected that Microsoft would be expected
to obey the law? You have a bizarre concept of "rational".

> The law *must* put a person on notice of precisely what
> conduct it prohibits. However, in this case, the law's applicability was
> conditioned on an abritrary and irrational choice of what the relevant
> market was.

Riiiight.

Because as we all know, micro-controllers for VCRs and desktop PCs are the
same market. If you want to run common business applications like word
processing, book-keeping, web-browsing, etc, you have a free choice
between running those applications on a desktop PC or a VCR.


-- 
Steven.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 31 07:34:05 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:34:05 +1100
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.31.12.34.04.915261@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:35:19 +0000, Alex Hunsley wrote:

> There's no really specific questions in this post, but I'm looking for 
> people's thought on the issues within...
> 
> 
> The two main versions I've encountered for data pseudo-hiding 
> (encapsulation) in python are:
> 
> method 1:
> 
> _X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
>        know that this data should be private.

Not quite.

In modules, names starting with one or more underscore (_X, __X, etc.) are
not copied over when you import the module using "from module import *".

In classes, instance._X is just a convention "this is private, don't touch
unless you really have to".

> method 2:
> 
> __X - (double underscore) - mangles the name (in a predictable way).
>        Avoids name pollution.

Again, not quite: this only occurs for attributes, not names in modules.

> How often does either tend to get used? Personally, I'd be a little 
> worried about using method 1, because namespace clashes could happen. Is 
> this overly paranoid?

You are no more likely to have instance._attribute clash as you are to
have instance.attribute clash.

In fact, since each class is its own namespace, it is only an issue if you
are subclassing. And that is an argument for better documentation: if you
tell people your class uses semi-private attribute _X, and they still
accidentally over-write it, that is their fault exactly as if they
accidentally over-wrote public methods like .append().


> Also, I presume that rather than people writing their own manual getter 
> and setter methods, they tend to use either overloading on __getattr__ 
> and __setattr__, or the Property class (which itself uses aforementioned 
>   methods). Overloading __getattr__ etc. seems more attractive to me, as 
> then I can capture access to unknown names, and raise an exception!

You don't need to overload __getattr__ to raise an exception when you
access unknown names:

py> class Parrot:
...     canSpeak = True  # note mixed case
...
py> p = Parrot()
>>> p.canspeak
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: Parrot instance has no attribute 'canspeak'


In any case, that sounds like you are just making work for yourself.
What are you doing, manually keeping a list of "allowed" attributes which
you check before hand?

# warning: untested
class Spanish_Inquisition():
    ALLOWED = ['comfy_chair', 'shrubbery']
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        if name in self.ALLOWED:
            return self.__dict__[name]
        raise ValueError("No such attribute")

Yuck yuck yuck. Slow, unnecessary, and of course you might think you know
what attributes your class needs, but you can never predict when your
class's users will want to add attributes you never thought of.

There is, at least, an argument in favour of using that technique for
enforcing something like attribute declarations:

    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        if name in self.ALLOWED:
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            raise ValueError("That attribute hasn't been declared.")

although that just leads into the whole "bondage and domination language"
can of worms.

In any case, you already have a perfectly good list of attributes.
Actually, two lists, one for class attributes and one for instance
attributes:

instance.__class__.__dict__.keys() 
instance.__dict__.keys() 

Keeping two lots of the same data around is usually a recipe for trouble.
Just wait until you delete an attribute, and then forget to remove it from
your ALLOWED list, and watch the fun and games when you start getting
unexpected errors.


> (I really don't like the idea of random attribute name typos going 
> unnoticed when accessing attributes in a class!)

This is no more a problem than getting random name typos when accessing
any objects in Python. In many people's experience, it is mostly -- but
not always -- those who don't use Python very much who worry about the
lack of declarations. In practice, if you are testing your code
sufficiently, you won't miss the lack of declarations. Declarations are
only good for picking up a tiny subset of bugs, and proper testing will
pick those same bugs -- and many more -- without the need for declaring
variables and/or attributes.

No doubt there will be some who disagree. Let me postscript my comments
with YMMV, and remind folks that even if declarations are the best thing
since the transistor, Python currently doesn't have them and all the
arguing in the world won't change that.


-- 
Steven.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 17:11:09 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:11:09 +0200
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
In-Reply-To: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3qitrdFf7cpaU1@uni-berlin.de>

k8 wrote:
> Hello-
> 
> I'm stuck on a Windows machine today and would love to fully play with
> and test a simple python script.  I want to be able to type "python
> myscript myarg" somewhere.  Is there anything out there to help me?  My
> main concern is playing with the myarg in the sys.argv list.  I've been
> mucking around with IDLE without much success.

Install cygwin. Don't confuse the cygwin python version with your 
separately installed one, or don't install python via cygwin.

Regards,

Diez


From benji at benjiyork.com  Fri Oct 14 16:07:28 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:07:28 -0400
Subject: Function to execute only once
In-Reply-To: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43501000.1020106@benjiyork.com>

PyPK wrote:
> now I want execute() function to get executed only once. That is the
> first time it is accessed.

How about just calculating the value at import time?
--
Benji York


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  1 10:52:22 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:52:22 +0200
Subject: Help with syntax warnings
References: <dhjgsl$85a$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<BAY103-F40D3CF141415D4AE4ED998A28E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <dhm7r8$fpq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ivan Shevanski wrote:

> Well I've been experimenting with the warning filter and it doesn't seem to
> be working. . .I think it has something to do with the fact that warnings
> are issued during the compiling and not during the excecution. . .So the
> filter would come in to late to block them? Any ideas?

fix your code.

fixing syntaxwarnings is almost always trivial; most of the time, all you
have to do is to remove (or rephrase) some statement that doesn't do
what you think it does anyways...

if you really cannot motivate yourself to fix your code, you have to add
an extra "bootstrap" module.  if your program is named "myprogram.py",
rename that file to "myactualprogram.py", and add a "myprogram.py" that
looks like this:

    # File: myprogram.py

    import warnings
    warnings.simplefilter("ignore", SyntaxWarning)
    import myprogram

(you may have to fix any __name__ == "__main__" clauses in your original
program).

but you really should fix your program, instead of wasting time on stupid
workarounds.

</F>





From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sat Oct 15 22:55:17 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:55:17 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <oij4f.11011$vD4.616767@news20.bellglobal.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Eventually the hope is that your OS and browser
>> will become the only means of accessing the internet. And if your OS
>> and browser are the only way to access the Internet, who in their
>> right mind would use another system?
>
> It's not happening, so what are you talking about? Any developer hoping
> the above has no clue what he/she is developing.
>

What happened is irrelevant to what the desire was of M$ when it set out to 
take the browser market away from Netscape. When you control the OS market 
and make your browser a tied component of it and to the benefit of yourself 
only, you limit the ability of anyone else to compete.

I'm still waiting for you to enlighten the rest of us as to the real reason, 
though. The anti-trust case that they lost would tend not to bode well for 
whatever altruistic argument you might have. I'd also like to hear how MS 
Java and jscript show a desire for people to be using anything but M$ 
products to access or publish pages on the Internet?

Matt 




From mde at micah.elliott.name  Thu Oct 20 13:25:27 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:25:27 -0700
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
In-Reply-To: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051020172527.GC27602@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 20, hagai26 at gmail.com wrote:
> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
> in a str, like this:
> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
> I know I can use spilt and than join them
> but I can also use regular expressions
> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one

Of course there are many ways to skin this cat; here are some trials.
The timeit module is useful for comparison (and I think I'm using it
correctly :-).  I thought that string concatenation was rather
expensive, so its being faster than %-formatting surprised me a bit:

    $ python -mtimeit '
      res = "/%s/ %s"% tuple("a b c".split(" ", 1))'
    100000 loops, best of 3: 3.87 usec per loop

    $ python -mtimeit '
      b,e = "a b c".split(" ", 1); res = "/"+b+"/ "+e'
    100000 loops, best of 3: 2.78 usec per loop

    $ python -mtimeit '
      "/"+"a b c".replace(" ", "/ ", 1)'
    100000 loops, best of 3: 2.32 usec per loop

    $ python -mtimeit '
      "/%s" % ("a b c".replace(" ", "/ ", 1))'
    100000 loops, best of 3: 2.83 usec per loop

    $ python -mtimeit '
      "a b c".replace("", "/", 1).replace(" ", "/ ", 1)'
    100000 loops, best of 3: 3.51 usec per loop

There are possibly better ways to do this with strings.

And the regex is comparatively slow, though I'm not confident this one
is optimally written:

    $ python -mtimeit -s'import re' '
      re.sub(r"^(\w*)", r"/\1/", "a b c")'
    10000 loops, best of 3: 44.1 usec per loop

You'll probably want to experiment with longer strings if a test like
"a b c" is not representative of your typical input.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From eight02645999 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 10:06:21 2005
From: eight02645999 at yahoo.com (eight02645999 at yahoo.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 07:06:21 -0700
Subject: how to return correct value of update stmt
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2242.1129709830.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129680385.808139.97850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2242.1129709830.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129730781.387304.49510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi
yes , the table is updated. Just feels "uncomfortable" with the return
of -1.
was also concerned that what if the actual table doesn't exist, will it
return -1? 
anyway, i will go check it out ..
thanks



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sat Oct  1 09:25:28 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 13:25:28 GMT
Subject: Python 3! Finally!
References: <dhk1ds$654$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <Xns96E27802B8766duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I just firefoxed to Python.org and clicked on the bz2 link at
> http://python.org/2.4.2/ and what did I get?
> 
> Python-3.4.2.tar.bz2 !!
> 
> Python 3 - what we've all been waiting for, finally, it's there!
> 
> Weird, though, the md5sum is the same as for the Python-2.4.2.tar.bz2
> that I downloaded late (late!) yesterday evening and had forgotten in
> my download directory... just found it next to the new one... was
> still there, not overwritten...
> 
> Well, maybe the changes needed to merit a V3 weren't that big after
> all... 
> 
Did you download the file using Firefox? It seems to have a 'feature' that 
when you download a file and there is already a file of the same name it 
finds the first number in the filename and increments it.

e.g. I just downloaded TortoiseSVN-1.2.4.4479-svn-1.2.3.msi and then 
immediately re-downloaded it and got TortoiseSVN-2.2.4.4479-svn-1.2.3.msi



From will.h.brown at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 16:01:32 2005
From: will.h.brown at gmail.com (will.h.brown at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 13:01:32 -0700
Subject: Calling an exe from Python?
Message-ID: <1129492892.037665.123590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

I'm new to Python and I need to call an executable file from my script.
Is that possible, and if so, how? Thank you!

whb



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 06:08:55 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 10:08:55 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-03, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Well I'm a bit getting sick of those references to standard idioms.
>> There are moments those standard idioms don't work, while the
>> gist of the OP's remark still stands like:
>> 
>>   egold = 0:
>>   while egold < 10:
>>     if test():
>>       ego1d = egold + 1
>> 
>
> Oh come on. That is a completely contrived example,

No it is not. You may not have had any use for this
kind of code, but unfamiliary with certain types
of problems, doesn't make something contrived.

> and besides you can 
> still rewrite it easily using the 'standard idiom' at which point it 
> becomes rather clearer that it is in danger of being an infinite loop even 
> without assigning to the wrong variable.
>
> for egold in range(10):
>     while test():
>         pass

And trying to force this into standard idiom is just silly.
When people write examples they try to get the essential
thing into the example in order to make things clear to
other people. The real code they may be a lot more complicated.
That you can rework the example into standard idiom doesn't mean
the real code someone is working with can be reworked in a like manner.

> I find it very hard to believe that anyone would actually mistype ego1d 
> while intending to type egold (1 and l aren't exactly close on the 
> keyboard), and if they typed ego1d thinking that was the name of the loop 
> variable they would type it in both cases (or use 'ego1d += 1') which would 
> throw an exception.

Names do get misspelled and sometimes that misspelling is hard to spot. 
That you find the specific misspelling used as an example contrived
doesn't change that.

> The only remaining concern is the case where both ego1d and egold are 
> existing variables, or more realistically you increment the wrong existing 
> counter (j instead of i), and your statically typed language isn't going to 
> catch that either.

A language where variable have to be declared before use, would allow
to give all misspelled (undeclared) variables in on go, instead of
just crashing each time one is encounterd.

> I'm trying to think back through code I've written over the past few years, 
> and I can remember cases where I've ended up with accidental infinite loops 
> in languages which force me to write loops with explicit incremements, but 
> I really can't remember that happening in a Python program.

Good for you, but you shouldn't limit your view to your experience.

> Having just grepped over a pile of Python code, I'm actually suprised to 
> see how often I use 'while' outside generators even in cases where a 'for' 
> loop would be sensible. In particular I have a lot of loops of the form:
>
>    while node:
>        ... do something with node ...
>        node = node.someAttribute
>
> where someAttribute is parentNode or nextSibling or something. These would, 
> of course  be better written as for loops with appropriate iterators. e.g.
>
>    for node in node.iterAncestors():
>       ... do something with node ...

That "of course" is unfounded. They may be better in your specific
code, but what you showed is insufficient to decide that. The first
code could for instance be reversing the sequence in the part that
is labeled ...do something with node ...

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Oct 29 08:24:51 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:24:51 +0200
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <1130532169.033398.155010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sfarbFnt8bvU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130532169.033398.155010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3sh80jFmvde0U1@uni-berlin.de>

KraftDiner wrote:
> unzip doesn't seem to work for me...

Mrmpf, my bad. The operation is called unzip, but implpemented by using 
zip - so


unzip(l) == zip(*l)


So the exchange unzip with zip in my example.

Diez


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Oct 21 01:39:55 2005
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 05:39:55 -0000
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt vs extension written in C
References: <1129814875.226834.10260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3rqj7vFhstbuU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129847994.610270.212810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129873195.1903@yasure>

Quoth "Tamas Nepusz" <ntamas at gmail.com>:
| No, that's actually a bit more complicated. The library I'm working on
| is designed for performing calculations on large-scale graphs (~10000
| nodes and edges). I want to create a Python interface for that library,
| so what I want to accomplish is that I could just type "from igraph
| import *" in a Python command line and then access all of the
| functionalities of the igraph library. Now it works, except the fact
| that if, for example, I start computing the diameter of a random graph
| of ~100000 nodes and ~200000 edges, I can't cancel it, because the
| KeyboardInterrupt is not propagated to the Python toplevel (or it isn't
| even generated until the igraph library routine returns). I would like
| to allow the user to cancel the computation with the usual Ctrl-C and
| return to the Python interactive interface.
| This whole feature is not vital, but it would mean a big step towards
| user-friendliness.
| I have access to the source code of igraph as well (since one of my
| colleagues is developing it), so another possible solution would be to
| inject some calls into the igraph source code which temporarily cancels
| the computation and checks whether there's something waiting in the
| Python interpreter, but I haven't found any function in the API which
| allows me to do this.

Hm, tough question.  Even in C, this would be a little awkward.
If you only wanted the program to abort on ^C, then you could just
replace the default sigint handler with SIG_DFL.  But then you'd be
back to the shell prompt, not the python prompt.  If you want to
catch the signal, but also abort a computation, then as you say,
the computation needs to check periodically.

Rather than peek into Python for this, I'm wondering if your module
could set its own signal handler for SIGINT, which would set a library
flag.  Then call PyErr_SetInterrupt(), to emulate the normal signal
handler.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 13:44:45 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:44:45 -0700
Subject: calling a dylib in python on OS X
References: <1130049617.186896.237650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4vsgy.1r0e09e1qimo2nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<robspychala at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Is there something similar to python's windll for calling DLLs on win32
> but meant for calling dylib's on OS X?

ctypes should work just fine on Macs, just as well as on Windows and
Linux machines as well as many other Unix dialects.  Try
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/ ...


Alex


From barnesc at engr.orst.edu  Fri Oct  7 00:03:33 2005
From: barnesc at engr.orst.edu (barnesc at engr.orst.edu)
Date: Thu,  6 Oct 2005 21:03:33 -0700
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
Message-ID: <1128657813.4345f395ce35f@webmail.oregonstate.edu>


I added some recipes to the Python Cookbook:

 - listmixin

   Use ListMixin to create custom list classes from a small subset of
   list methods:

   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440656

 - pytime

   Improves on timeit by allowing you to time a function directly
   (no need for confusing import and exec B.S.), and not requiring
   you to specify the number of iterations for the timing loop.

   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440657

 - bitlist

   An example of listmixin: A memory compacted list of bits, uses
   1 byte per every 8 elements.

   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440658


I hope you find these useful.

You can find more Python stuff by myself (and other misc thoughts) at
my blog (http://barnesc.blogspot.com/).

 - Connelly Barnes


From dave.brueck at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:15:16 2005
From: dave.brueck at gmail.com (dave.brueck at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:15:16 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129226416.992719.201900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129226416.992719.201900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129572916.956074.244270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Steve M wrote:
> Here is an article discussing the coding style of BitTorrent.
>
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2003/7/17/pythonnews.html
>
> Maybe that code is worth looking at.

[didn't read this thread or that article until I saw the summary in Dr.
Dobb's Python-URL]

FWIW, the BitTorrent code seemed like an incredible hack to me. The
above article tries to put a positive spin on it, but seriously, the
code was a mess. Hats off to Mr. Cohen for creating BitTorrent in the
first place, but I wouldn't go looking at that code for any "best
practices".

It took several days of head scratching to figure out what was really
going on because the code is almost *completely* devoid of comments -
even high level stuff like "this module is for X" or "this class does
Y", not to mention comments to clarify code that was obscure or trying
to be too cute.

A day or so into it I discovered that there were two different public
classes with the exact same name, so anytime you saw it used elsewhere
you had to dig around to figure out which class was being used.

There were also lots of more subjective things that were pretty
annoying - state was passed around in various dictionaries (they were
begging to be refactored into classes), a lot of the variable names
seemed like misnomers, values were passed out from functions via 1-item
lists, etc. - drove me nuts. :)

To be clear, I'm not trying to rag on BitTorrent, just pointing out
that it is probably not at all what the OP is looking for (well-written
Python, stuff that is generally considered "very Pythonic").

-Dave



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 23:56:00 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:56:00 -0700
Subject: Extention Woes
In-Reply-To: <1129777857.676019.263340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2273.1129754855.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129777857.676019.263340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129780560.288676.177850@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Tuvas wrote:
> Forgot, var declartions
>
>         int can_han;
>         int com;
>         char len;
>         char dat[8];

That should probably be:

     int len;
     char *dat;

IIRC, "z" returns the internal string pointer.  "#" is definitely not
going to return a char.  I'm pretty sure it returns an int and not a
long.

n



From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 24 13:41:43 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 10:41:43 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

let me try.

1) ''.join(lots_of_pieces)

2) This doesn't even work, if something is removed, the list is too
short. So:
[x for x in somelist if not isbad(x)]
well, list comprehension is Python 2.4 and 2.3 is the standard in many
OSes, so it is possibly not the most portable solution
I had to look up the syntax, because i never use it in my code, yet.

3+4) I never used property - had to look it up. So i learned something
:)



From no at spam  Wed Oct 26 22:22:21 2005
From: no at spam (D H)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:22:21 -0500
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>	<1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IIWdnR05duRDpP3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Joerg Schuster wrote:
> 
> 
>>>if you want to know why 100 is a reasonable and non-random choice, I
>>>suggest checking the RE documentation for "99 groups" and the special
>>>meaning of group 0.
>>
>>I have read everything I found about Python regular expressions. But I
>>am not able to understand what you mean. What is so special about 99?
> 
> 
> it's the largest number than can be written with two decimal digits.


It's a conflict between python's syntax for regex back references and 
octal number literals.  Probably wasn't noticed until way too late, and 
now it will never change.


From Tommy.Ryding at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 02:44:30 2005
From: Tommy.Ryding at gmail.com (Tommy.Ryding at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 23:44:30 -0700
Subject: global interpreter lock
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2219.1129646610.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129623917.257410.294060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2219.1129646610.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129704270.303692.155200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks,
PyThread_release_lock() is implemented in all thread_xxx.h files.

So I thought right but specified my question like a stupid ;)

//T



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct  5 17:33:50 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 14:33:50 -0700
Subject: What documentation "standard" to use
In-Reply-To: <0001HW.BF6A03AA00B1AD5CF0284550@news.individual.de>
References: <0001HW.BF6A03AA00B1AD5CF0284550@news.individual.de>
Message-ID: <20051005213350.GF32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 05, Kalle Anke wrote:
> I'm confused of how I should document my code, I've always liked being
> able to document my code directly in my source file and then to use
> some tool to extract the documentation to some other format.

> My problem with Python is that there are so many tools and formats ...
> I don't know which one I should use. I've tried to figure out if there
> is one that is the "de-facto standard" but ...

You don't need to do any marking up to use pydoc -- just put your
comments in the right place so that they become docstrings.  Just try
"pydoc pydoc" for more info.  It is distributed with Python, and
generates nicely colored html or opens your PAGER.

Or you could install epydoc <http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/>, which has
similar features (and more).  It supports "reStructuredText"
<http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html> and it's own markup (epytext,
I think).  RST is the de-facto Python markup, AFAICT.  You'll need
something like "__docformat__ = 'restructuredtext'" in your modules.
RST is great for non-Python-source code, too.

Those are the two I am aware of.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Wed Oct  5 13:08:48 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:08:48 GMT
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <3qid8sFeigdeU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
	<3qid8sFeigdeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1128532128.4560.21.camel@blackwidow>

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 18:28 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Use the BORG-pattern. See
> 
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531
> 
> Together with your caching, that should do the trick.
> 

I looked at the Borg Pattern, but I don't think it was exactly what I
want.

The Borg patten appears to be if you want multiple instances that point
to the same "data".

What I wanted is multiple calls to create a new object with the same
parameters points to the "original" object instead of creating a new
one.



From a.jaffe at imperial.ac.uk  Fri Oct 21 10:00:50 2005
From: a.jaffe at imperial.ac.uk (Andrew Jaffe)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:00:50 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2354.1129894994.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>	<43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<dja4ss$m2i$2@sea.gmane.org>	<4358C7A6.1040907@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
	<mailman.2354.1129894994.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4358F492.7000406@imperial.ac.uk>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>>>
>>>> The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the 
>>>> class itself, before I've made any instances.
>>>>
>>> Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...
>>
>> Yep, that would work! Thanks.
>>
>> But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be 
>> almost exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to 
>> apply these methods to the class as an object in its own right).
>>
> What's the use case?

Fair question. I hope the following isn't too technical.

I have a class which describes the model for fitting some data, 
encapsulating among other things a bunch of parameters whose values I'd 
like to determine for a given dataset. The base class is a simple model, 
the derived class a slightly more complicated one with an extra parameter.

At present, I instantiate the class with a particular set of values for 
the parameters.

One of the methods in this class is called 'prior', which returns the 
prior probability for the instance's paramters.

However, it turns out there are some 'meta-parameters' which don't 
change between instances, in particular the allowed limits on the 
parameters, beyond which the prior should return 0. Currently these are 
stored as class variables -- so both the base and derived class want to 
be able to act as if these class variables are 'native' to their own 
class -- since in fact the base/derived relationship is in this case 
actually something of an implementation detail. (Currently I've solved 
the problem by explicitly using the base class methods for setting the 
class variables.)

Does this make sense?

Andrew



From jacob.kroon at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 15:52:21 2005
From: jacob.kroon at gmail.com (Jacob Kroon)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:52:21 +0200
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
Message-ID: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>

Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
First let me
describe the scenario with an example:

modules/
    fruit/
        __init__.py
        apple.py
        banana.py

apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
problem lies in the
fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
peach.py, and not change
__init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
__init__.py. I've come halfway
by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
that the instantiated
objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
I want it to be
fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.

Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
be very grateful.

Regards Jacob Kroon



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 15 19:56:19 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:56:19 GMT
Subject: Force flushing buffers
References: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<di8q7u$pku$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<434d69fc$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <43519697.97807459@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:55:10 -0400, Madhusudan Singh <spammers-go-here at spam.invalid> wrote:

>Robert Wierschke wrote:
>
>> Madhusudan Singh schrieb:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>>         I have a python application that writes a lot of data to a bunch
>>>         of files
>>> from inside a loop. Sometimes, the application has to be interrupted and
>>> I find that a lot of data has not yet been writen (and hence is lost).
>>> How do I flush the buffer and force python to write the buffers to the
>>> files ? I intend to put this inside the loop.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>> disable the buffer!
>> 
>> open( filename[, mode[, bufsize]])
>> 
>> open takes an optional 3ed argument set bufsize = 0 means unbuffered.
>> see the documentation of the in build file() mehtod as open is just
>> another name
>
>Though I will not be using this solution (plan to use flush() explicitly)
>for speed reasons, thanks ! I will file this away for future reference :)
I suspect Scott's try/finally approach will get you better speed, since it
avoids unneeded flush calls and the associated buffer management, but
it is best to measure speed when you are concerned.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct 25 09:22:52 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:22:52 +0200
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <435e276a$0$5925$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435e276a$0$5925$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <435E31AC.3070400@ghaering.de>

bruno modulix wrote:
> beza1e1 wrote:
>>well, list comprehension is Python 2.4 
> 
> 2.2.x IIRC

List comprehensions were introduced in Python 2.0, according to the 
"What's new in ..." document at 
http://www.amk.ca/python/2.0/index.html#SECTION000600000000000000000

-- Gerhard



From quiteblack at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 10:07:47 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (black)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 07:07:47 -0700
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
In-Reply-To: <diidbt$7e$1@news.tsua.net>
References: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diidbt$7e$1@news.tsua.net>
Message-ID: <1129126067.252195.315080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

quote:
=======================
script.py >> script.log 2>&1
=======================

what does 2>&1 mean pls ?



From saint.infidel at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 18:09:17 2005
From: saint.infidel at gmail.com (infidel)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 15:09:17 -0700
Subject: possible bug in cherrypy.lib.autoreloader
Message-ID: <1129759757.331157.177020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I may have found the source of my infinite loop when importing kid
modules from my cherrypy server.  Here is some code from the
autoreloader module of cherrypy:

def reloader_thread():
    mtimes = {}

    def fileattr(m):
        return getattr(m, "__file__", None)

    while RUN_RELOADER:
        for filename in map(fileattr, sys.modules.values()) +
reloadFiles:
            if filename:
                if filename.endswith(".pyc"):
                    filename = filename[:-1]
                try:
                    mtime = os.stat(filename).st_mtime
                except OSError:
                    sys.exit(3) # force reload
                if filename not in mtimes:
                    mtimes[filename] = mtime
                    continue
                if mtime > mtimes[filename]:
                    sys.exit(3) # force reload
        time.sleep(1)

So what happens if one of my modules is a kid template named
'login.kid'?  kid compiles the template to login.pyc, which means the
os.stat call in this function will be passed 'login.py' which does not
exist.



From jonathan-lists at cleverdevil.org  Wed Oct  5 12:56:18 2005
From: jonathan-lists at cleverdevil.org (Jonathan LaCour)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:56:18 -0400
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <3E8099B3-8757-4B26-957E-C79DD5FB4CE6@cleverdevil.org>

> class Spam(object):
>     cache = {}
>     def __new__(cls, x):
>         if cls.cache.has_key(x):
>             return cls.cache[x]
>     def __init__(self, x):
>         self.x = x
>         self.cache[x] = self
>
> a = Spam('foo')
> b = Spam('foo')
>
> Well, in this case a and b are identical... to None!  I assume this is
> because the test in __new__ fails so it returns None, I need to then
> create a new Spam.. but how do I do that without calling __new__  
> again?
> I can't call __init__ because there's no self...
>
>

Oops, you forgot to return object.__new__(cls, x) in the case the  
object isn't in the cache.  That should fix it.

Jonathan
http://cleverdevil.org




From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:06:37 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:06:37 -0700
Subject: select.select() on windows
Message-ID: <1130249197.810665.272520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am currently using subprocess to execute a command.  Then I read from
it's stdout...however, this is hanging on a read..waiting for more
bytes.  So what I would like is to timeout...and select.selec() seems
to be what I need.  Except I don't have a socket, i have stdout.

Any suggestions on how to do a timeout like select.select with stdout?

Thanks



From pitonero at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 13:31:07 2005
From: pitonero at gmail.com (El Pitonero)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 10:31:07 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
>
> I decided to read this thread today, and I still don't know exactly
> what your requirements are for "private" whatevers.

No name collision in subclassing. Notice that even if you use

self._x = 3

in a parent class, it can be overriden in a sub-sub-class accidentally.

> Or maybe, what are your real requirements?
> ;-)

No need for this type of joke.

For people coming from Java/C++ camp, (especially Java camp,) they
think they've got something good with the private class variable, and
they think the lack of an exact equivalent in Python means Python is
lesser in this regard.

The thing is, there are two sides to every coin. Features surely can be
viewed as "goodies", or they can be viewed as "handcuffs".

Python's lack of Java-style "private" surely has its drawback: name
collisions can happen. But, that's just one side. Name collisions are
allowed in many dynamic languages, where you can override the default
system behavior (in some languages, you can override/intercept the
assignment operator "=", or even the "if" statement and the "while"
loop.) Sure, in these very dynamic languages you can ACCIDENTALLY
override the default system behavior. How many Python programmers have
once upon a time done stupid things like:

list = 3

, without realizing that list() is a Python function? This type of
accidental overriding DOES happen. Similarly, in large and complicated
Python projects, name collision (even for "self._x" type of private
members) CAN happen, and I am sure it has happened for some people.

Now the question is: for average people and average project, how often
does this type of error happen? If people really cool down their heads
and don't talk emotionally, and base on their real experience
throughout the years, the truth is that this type of error just doesn't
happen that often. And even if it does happen, the error is usually
fatal enough to be detected.

OK, I have said that not having Java-style "private" has one downside
in Python. But what's the upside?

Not having "private" in Python closes one door, but opens another door.

The upside is exactly the same as the fact that you can override the
"list()" function in Python. Python is dynamic language. Like others
have pointed out, you can not even be sure about the variable content
of a class/object during runtime. In Java, you cannot override your
private members during runtime. In Python, if you have a private
variable:

self._x = 3

and you, for curiosity reasons and DURING runtime (after the program is
already up and running) want to know the exact moment the self._x
variable is accessed (say, print out the local time), or print out the
calling stack frames, you can do it. And I mean the program is running.

In Java, you would have to stop the program, re-write/re-implement
changes, re-compile, re-start the program, etc. etc.

The thing is, Python allows you to do runtime dynamic programming much
more easily than Java/C++. This type of dynamic and metaprogramming are
kind of unthinkable in the C++/Java world. Sure, these are advanced
programming features that not everybody uses, but Python leaves the
door open for those who want to take advantage of these powerful
features.

The fact that you can override Python's "list()" function can be either
viewed as pro or con. The fact that you can override member variables
can also be viewed as pro or con.

Would any Python programmer trade the benefits of a highly dynamic
language with an unessential feature like Java-style "private" data
members? My guess is not.

---------------

What do I say Java-style "private" is unessential?

If your Python class/object needs a real Java-style private working
namespace, you have to ask yourself: do the private variables REALLY
belong to the class?

In my opinion, the answer is: NO. Whenever you have Java-style private
variables (i.e, non-temporary variables that need to persist from one
method call to the next time the class node is accessed), those
variables/features may be better described as another object, separate
from your main class hierarchy. Why not move them into a foreign worker
class/object instead, and let that foreign worker object hold those
private names, and separate them from the main class hierarchy? (In
Microsoft's jargon: why not use "containment" instead of
"aggregation"?)

That is, the moment you need Java-style private variables, I think you
might as well create another class to hold those names and
functionalities, since they do not belong to the core functionality of
the main class hierarchy. Whatever inside the core functionality of the
main class, should perhaps be inheritable, sharable and modifiable.

If you use containment instead of aggregation, the chance for name
collision reduces dramatically. And in my opinion, it's the Pythonic
way of dealing with the "private" problem: move things that don't
belong to this object to some other object, and be happy again.



From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Oct 26 10:11:29 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jean-Paul Calderone)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:11:29 -0400
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <1130332534.999358.152530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051026141129.10365.1453784933.divmod.quotient.489@ohm>

On 26 Oct 2005 06:15:35 -0700, Gabriel Genellina <gagenellina at softlab.com.ar> wrote:
>> I want to convert from pickle format to python source code. That is,
>> given an existing pickle, I want to produce a textual representation
>> which, when evaluated, yields the original object (as if I had
>> unpickled the pickle).
>> I know of some transformations pickle/xml (Zope comes with one such
>> tool, gnosis xml is another) so I believe I could build something based
>> on them.
>> But I dont want to reinvent the wheel, I wonder if anyone knows of a
>> library which could do what I want?
>
>An example to make things clear:
>
>class MyClass:
>    def __init__(self,a,b):
>        self.a=a
>        self.b=b
>    def foo(self):
>        self.done=1
># construct an instance and work with it
>obj = MyClass(1,2)
>obj.foo()
># save into file
>pickle.dump(obj,file('test.dat','wb'))
>
>Then, later, another day, using another process, I read the file and
>want to print a block of python code equivalent to the pickle saved in
>the file.
>That is, I want to *generate* a block of code like this:
>
>xxx = new.instance(MyClass)
>xxx.a = 1
>xxx.b = 2
>xxx.done = 1
>
>Or perhaps:
>
>xxx = new.instance(MyClass, {'a':1,'b':2,'done':1})
>
>In other words, I need a *string* which, being sent to eval(), would
>return the original object state saved in the pickle.
>As has been pointed, repr() would do that for simple types. But I need
>a more general solution.
>
>The real case is a bit more complicated because there may be references
>to other objects, involving the persistent_id mechanism of pickles, but
>I think it should not be too difficult. In this example, if xxx.z
>points to another external instance for which persistent_id returns
>'1234', would suffice to output another line like:
>xxx.z = external_reference('1234')
>
>I hope its more clear now.

You may find twisted.persisted.aot of some use.  Here is an example:

>>> class Foo:
...     def __init__(self, x, y):
...             self.x = x
...             self.y = y
...
>>> a = Foo(10, 20)
>>> b = Foo('hello', a)
>>> c = Foo(b, 'world')
>>> a.x = c
>>> from twisted.persisted import aot
>>> print aot.jellyToSource(a)
app=Ref(1,
  Instance('__main__.Foo',
    x=Instance('__main__.Foo',
      x=Instance('__main__.Foo',
        x='hello',
        y=Deref(1),),
      y='world',),
    y=20,))
>>> 

AOT is unmaintained in Twisted, and may not support some newer features of Python (eg, datetime or deque instances).  If this seems useful, you may want to contribute patches to bring it up to the full level of functionality you need.

Jp


From jim.eggleston at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 02:28:02 2005
From: jim.eggleston at gmail.com (jim.eggleston at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 23:28:02 -0700
Subject: Debugging with SciTE
Message-ID: <1130567282.404337.61950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I just figured out a reasonably decent way to use pdb in SciTE for
debugging Python scripts. Debugging takes place in the SciTE output
window. I have only tested this with SciTE on Windows.

Here are the pieces you need:

1. Create a debug.py script file (I save this in
c:\usr\python\scripts):
import sys
from pdb import pm, set_trace
from inspect import getmembers
if sys.platform == 'win32':
    import os
    os.environ['HOME'] = os.path.join(os.environ['HOMEDRIVE'],
os.environ['HOMEPATH'])
del sys.argv[0]
execfile(sys.argv[0])

2. Create a .pdbrc file in HOME (optional, but very useful):
#Print instance variables (usage "pi classInst")
alias pi for k in %1.__dict__.keys(): print "%1."+k,"=",%1.__dict__[k]
#Print instance variables in self
alias ps pi self
#pprint locals
alias ppl pp locals()
#pprint globals
alias ppg pp globals()
#pprint getmembers
alias ppm pp getmembers(%1)

3. Modify the Build line of the Scite Python.properties file:
# Use python instead of pythonw on non-windows platforms
command.build.*.py=pythonw -i -u c:\usr\python\scripts\debug.py
"$(FileNameExt)"
command.build.subsystem.*.py=1

Now if you hit F7 when editing a Python script, output will be sent to
the
SciTE output window, after which you will see a python prompt. Assuming
there is an exception, entering pm() will start post-mortem debugging,
and you will see the (Pdb) prompt. You can then use pdb commands and
aliases to inspect variable values.

To set a break point in your script, enter set_trace() at the
appropriate point. This will fire up pdb, and you can use s (step) to
step through the code, and the aliases in .pdbrc to list values.

Use Ctrl-Break to kill the debugging session.

You have to be carefull how you type in the output window. Backspaces
tend to confuse things, so you need to make sure your typing is right
the first time. .pdbrc aliases help to reduce typing, so make use of
them.

Cheers,
Jim



From theller at python.net  Wed Oct  5 10:10:06 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:10:06 +0200
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net> <di0j8t$29ah$1@news.tsua.net>
Message-ID: <ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>> I'm about to add some logging calls to a library I have.  How can I
>> prevent that the script that uses the library prints
>> 'No handlers could be found for logger "comtypes.client"' when the
>> script runs?
>> I would like to setup the logging so that there is no logging when
>> nothing is configured, and no warning messages are printed.

Maksim Kasimov <maksim.kasimov at gmail.com> writes:

> may be this you will find usefull:
>
> def getLog(logName, fileName = None):
>
>      if fileName:
>          hdl = logging.FileHandler(fileName)
>      else:
>          hdl = logging.StreamHandler()
>
>      fmt = logging.Formatter("%(name)s:\t%(levelname)s:\t%(asctime)s:\t%(message)s")
>      hdl.setFormatter(fmt)
>      log = logging.getLogger(logName)
>      log.addHandler(hdl)
>
>      return log

Not really - I know how to set up handlers, but I think it should be
optional. Assume I have

  log = logging.getLogger("comtypes.client")

and later

  log.warn("foo bar")

in the library code.

If I use the library an my script, I get the warning that I mentioned
above.  I want the script by default to be agnostic about the libraries
logging.  When I want to see the log messages, I can always do

  logging.basicConfig()

in the script to see the log messages.

I get the behaviour that I want when I add a 'NULL' handler in the
library, but is this really how logging is intended to be used?

<library>
log = logging.getLogger("comtypes.client")

class NULLHandler(logging.Handler):
    def emit(self, *args):
        pass

log.addHandler(NULLHandler())
</library>

Thomas


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Thu Oct  6 05:05:10 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:05:10 +0200
Subject: Class property (was: Class methods)
In-Reply-To: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
Message-ID: <4344E8C6.6010802@designaproduct.biz>

Hughes, Chad O wrote:

> Is there any way to create a class method?  I can create a class 
> variable like this:
>
Hmm, seeing this post, I have decided to implement a 'classproperty' 
descriptor.
But I could not. This is what I imagined:

class A(object):
    _x = 0
    @classmethod
    def get_x(cls):
        print "Getting x..."
        return cls._x
    @classmethod
    def set_x(cls,value):
        print "Setting x..."
        cls._x = value
    x = classproperty(get_x,set_x)

Usage example:

 >>>print A.x
Getting x
0
 >>>A.x = 8
Setting x
 >>>print A.x
Getting x
8

I was trying for a while, but I could not implement a 'classproperty' 
function. Is it possible at all?
Thanks,

   Les






From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Oct  5 11:25:16 2005
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:25:16 +0200
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
In-Reply-To: <ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net> <di0j8t$29ah$1@news.tsua.net>
	<ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <4343F05C.5090606@cenix-bioscience.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

>>Thomas Heller wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>I'm about to add some logging calls to a library I have.  How can I
>>>prevent that the script that uses the library prints
>>>'No handlers could be found for logger "comtypes.client"' when the
>>>script runs?
>>>I would like to setup the logging so that there is no logging when
>>>nothing is configured, and no warning messages are printed.
>>>      
>>>
>
>Maksim Kasimov <maksim.kasimov at gmail.com> writes:
>
>  
>
>>may be this you will find usefull:
>>
>>def getLog(logName, fileName = None):
>>
>>     if fileName:
>>         hdl = logging.FileHandler(fileName)
>>     else:
>>         hdl = logging.StreamHandler()
>>
>>     fmt = logging.Formatter("%(name)s:\t%(levelname)s:\t%(asctime)s:\t%(message)s")
>>     hdl.setFormatter(fmt)
>>     log = logging.getLogger(logName)
>>     log.addHandler(hdl)
>>
>>     return log
>>    
>>
>
>Not really - I know how to set up handlers, but I think it should be
>optional. Assume I have
>
>  log = logging.getLogger("comtypes.client")
>
>and later
>
>  log.warn("foo bar")
>
>in the library code.
>
>If I use the library an my script, I get the warning that I mentioned
>above.  I want the script by default to be agnostic about the libraries
>logging.  When I want to see the log messages, I can always do
>
>  logging.basicConfig()
>
>in the script to see the log messages.
>
>I get the behaviour that I want when I add a 'NULL' handler in the
>library, but is this really how logging is intended to be used?
>
><library>
>log = logging.getLogger("comtypes.client")
>
>class NULLHandler(logging.Handler):
>    def emit(self, *args):
>        pass
>
>log.addHandler(NULLHandler())
></library>
>
>Thomas
>  
>
Hello,

          Absolutley not, I have exactly the same problem and it is 
really annoying.  The logging handlers should be set from an external 
config file and not explicitly in the code.  I simply had to just live 
with it, it's annoying but there is nothing you can do about it (short 
of playing around with stdout but avoiding that is why you used logging 
in the first place!).

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 46
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From William.Walker at Sun.COM  Thu Oct 13 13:26:32 2005
From: William.Walker at Sun.COM (Willie Walker)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:26:32 -0400
Subject: Forcing a stack trace from the command line?
Message-ID: <3CFB6CB2-8EE4-4B91-B398-4E86CFD3FCC8@Sun.COM>

Hi:

I'm working on Orca, a screen reader for the GNOME platform,
and it's being done in Python.  Python is working really for
us right now and I'm quite happy with many aspects of it.

Is there a function like CTRL-Backspace in Python?  There is
a hang in my code somewhere and I'm unable to find it.  When
the hang occurs, all "print" commands seem to stop and I can
only recover by killing the app via Ctrl-Z and kill.  In these
cases, Ctrl-C doesn't work even though I've registered signal
handlers:

   signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, shutdownAndExit)
   signal.signal(signal.SIGQUIT, shutdownAndExit)

What I'd really like to be able to do is to use something like
Java's CTRL-Backspace to dump a stack trace in these instances
just to give me a clue about where my code is during the hang.

I've tried using sys.settrace() to track things, but it seems
to introduce something into the system that prevents me from
being able to reproduce the hang.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Will



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 03:01:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:01:18 +0200
Subject: socket.setdefaulttimeout()
References: <di9240$d9h$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <diaf7v$7up$1@sea.gmane.org>

"rtilley" wrote:
> Perhaps this is a dumb question... but here goes. Should a socket client
> and a socket server each have different values for
> socket.setdefaulttimeout() what happens? Does the one with the shortest
> timeout period end first?

the timeout is a local setting, so the each process will time out
according to its own settings.

(but in reality, since sockets are about communication between
two parties, it's quite likely that the other end has already given
up when your side times out.)

</F>





From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Tue Oct 11 02:48:30 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:48:30 +0200
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndkmo1c.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Steven D'Aprano enlightened us with:
> he says that every time you try to append to a list that is already
> full, Python doubles the size of the list. This wastes no more than
> 50% of the memory needed for that list, but has various advantages
> -- and I'm damned if I can remember exactly what those advantages
> were.

Allocating extra memory usually requires the following steps:

    - Allocate more memory
    - Copy all data from old to new memory
    - Deallocate old memory

That second step requires N actions if there are N data items in the
list. If you add one 'block' of memory to the list for each item you
add, you waste no memory, but every item added requires N steps to
copy all the old items. That means that after you've added N items,
N**2 steps have been taken. That's very bad for performance.

If, on the other hand, you double the memory every time you run out,
you have to copy much less data, and in the end it turns out you need
roughly N steps to add N items to the list. That's a lot better, isn't
it?

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 19:53:07 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:53:07 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

>  claim     1a) Microsoft's tactic is X (fill in, please)
>  judgment  1b) tactic X is somehow not as bad as (sense?) offering
>                "exclusive wholesale deals" (please define)

    Umm, it's not a judgment. Microsoft said you can sell Windows and other 
operating systems, but there will be a charge for every  machine you sell 
without Windows -- if you want to be able to buy Windows wholesale. Someone 
could comply with this by not selling any other operating systems at all and 
never pay the fee. Therefore, this is a lesser restriction than saying you 
can only sell Windows wholesale if you don't sell or offer any competing 
systems. If I have the right to say you can't use my car at all, I have the 
lesser right to impose the lesser restriction that you can only use my car 
if you pay me $10.

    Microsoft's specific tactic was to offer Windows wholesale only as part 
of a franchise arrangement. The franchise arrangement stipulated a fee per 
system sold, whether or not the system included Windows. This is a lesser 
version of the more typical franchise arrangement which only lets you sell 
branded products and doesn't let you sell or offer non-branded products.

    If you want to sell meals with Whoppers in them, you have to get 
permission to do so from Burger King corporate. And they will not let you 
also sell Big Macs in the same store, even if McDonald's had no objection.

    If you owned a Burger King and wanted to offer a competing burger, 
Burger King corporate might let you do so, but it would be totally 
reasonable for them to insist on a fee even for non-BK products sold. This 
is because it is their products, reputation, and marketing that creates the 
customer flow that you are using to sell your products. Similarly, by his 
own admission, it is his ability to sell Microsoft products that allows him 
to have a business at all and it creates the customer flow that he would use 
to sell the competing products. Microsoft's insistence on some money in 
exchange for this is not unreasonable.

    Many companies require you to agree to various types of things in order 
to obtain their products wholesale. The Microsoft Windows wholesale 
agreement was not vastly different from many such agreements.

    If another company with smaller market share made a similar insistence, 
nobody would have raised so much as an eyebrow.

>>     What Microsoft didn't want was someone going to a store to buy a
>> PC with
>> Windows and being told that another OS is better and cheaper.

> Tough - that's what salespeople are for (notionally, in a shop you
> trust).

    So should Burger King be required to allow McDonald's salesman in their 
stores? Or should Burger King corporate be prohibited from disallowing 
Burger King store owners from telling their customers that the burgers are 
better across the street at the McDonald's he owns?

    DS




From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Wed Oct  5 22:21:38 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:21:38 -0400
Subject: Absolultely confused...
In-Reply-To: <1128608102_115255@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128608102_115255@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1128565298.3513.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>

All of these are runtime errors. Using GCC4 and compiling perfectly with
-Wall.

On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 09:12 -0500, Brandon K wrote:
> > If I take out the "!" in the format string and just use "O", I can at
> > least get past PyArg_ParseTuple. 
> 
> Is this a compile-time error? Or a runtime error?
> 
> 
> 
> ----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
> Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
> ----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----
> 
> 



From dalloliogm at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 10:48:35 2005
From: dalloliogm at gmail.com (Giovanni Dall'Olio)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 07:48:35 -0700
Subject: how to(can we ?) pass argument to .py script ?
In-Reply-To: <1129039664.425406.265670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129039664.425406.265670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129042115.926410.71880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


quiteblack at gmail.com wrote:


> howdy~
>
> i wrote a .py file and it works fine, my goal is to pass argument to
> that py file when it get executed, and accept that argument within py
> file, eg. i prefer a command like below:
>
> python test.py -t
>
> and then, i may get "-t" within test.py for later use.


sys.argv and getopt module:
http://diveintopython.org/scripts_and_streams/command_line_arguments.html

bye!



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 19 11:47:07 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:47:07 -0700
Subject: parser question
In-Reply-To: <dj5ldl$k25$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
References: <dj5ldl$k25$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <20051019154707.GC20480@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 19, Daniel Sch?le wrote:
> I have one format with this structure
> 
> A {
>         x=1
>         y=3
>         B {
>             z  = "something here"
>         }
>     }
> 
> C {
>     }
> 
> A {
>         x=0
>         y=0
>         B {
>             z  = "other"
>         }
>     }
> 
> are there parsers for this kind of structure?
> specially I am interested in all A blocks
> 
> just now, I am trying to solve it with re,

You might be able to tackle this easily enough with REs if your
structures don't nest arbitrarily.  It's hard to tell if this deserves
a formal grammar based on the example.  If it does, you could try PLY
<http://www.dabeaz.com/ply/> (which I've had a pleasant experience
with in the past) or any of the other parsers listed on the PLY site's
"Other Python Parsing Tools".

-- 
_  _     ___
|\/|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
"  "     """


From a at b.c  Wed Oct 26 22:37:18 2005
From: a at b.c (D H)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:37:18 -0500
Subject: Hi All - Newby 
In-Reply-To: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
Message-ID: <IIWdnR85duTCoP3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>

Ask wrote:
> 
> I found a link to this newsgroup, downloaded 1000 messages, 

You might check out the python-tutor list if you have beginner 
questions: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


> I must admit to much confusion regarding some of the basics, but I'm sure 
> time, reading, and good advice will get rid of that. at this stage, it's 
> just working through some examples and getting my head around things. As an 
> example, if I create a window, I've been unable to force it to be a certain 
> size, and put a button (widget) at (say) 20,40 (x & y). Is window formatting 
> possible?

You might also see wxpython: http://www.wxpython.org/  The "wiki" there 
has some examples and beginner resources.


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 17:01:40 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:01:40 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129927722.835095.191620@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lilpklp9mib0f@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, nephish at xit.net <nephish at xit.net> wrote:

> gp('set term png')
>
> is this an example of sending normal gnuplot commands?

Yes.

> if so, are all of the gnuplot commands available ?

Yes.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Do you like "TENDER
                                  at               VITTLES"?
                               visi.com            


From howardrh at westerncom.net  Sat Oct  8 20:28:08 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 17:28:08 -0700
Subject: New Python book
References: <mailman.1572.1128550286.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128817688.826541.209040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The title is very misleading.  The book is a nice introduction to
Python, covers the high lights of Python without getting bogged down in
detail and the author has a lively writing style. But the book has very
litle to entice professional programmers.

Dick Moores wrote:
> (Sorry, my previous post should not have had "Tutor" in the subject header.)
>
> Magnus Lie Hetland's new book, _Beginning Python: From Novice to
> Professional_ was published by Apress on Sept. 26 (in the U.S.). My copy
> arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. Very much worth a look, IMHO.
> But what do the experts here think?
>
> <http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/159059519X>
> 
> Dick Moores
> rdm at rcblue.com



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Oct 26 12:30:34 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 16:30:34 GMT
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>
	<868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11liivcbmeops4b@corp.supernews.com>
	<opsy44qyjyrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<11lps3jj9a7h62c@corp.supernews.com>
	<1h4zleu.115juj63s01m9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlva9e.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:42:19 -0700, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2005-10-24, Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >> The only think you can export an environment variable to is a
>> >> child process
>> >
>> > Well, you know that, and I know that too. From my experience,
>> > many people don't...
>> 
>> True.  Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
>> of what's obvious and what isn't.
>
> This specific issue is identical in Windows, isn't it?  I do not know
> any OS which does have the concept of "environment variable" yet lets
> such variables be ``exported'' to anything but a child process.

AmigaDOS, if I recall correctly. Its "ENV:" drive/namespace is global, and
that's its closest thing to Unix environment variables.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 12 00:40:09 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:40:09 -0000
Subject: are there internal functions for these ?
References: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11kp4t95m12he35@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-12, black <quiteblack at gmail.com> wrote:

> i wrote some functions for copying and moving files caz' i didnt find
> concret functions within the doc. but i think these operations are
> simple and important so there may be some internal ones i didnt know.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=python+move+copy+file

It's the very first link.

> anyone could figure me out ? 

I'm afraid so.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is this TERMINAL fun?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From codecraig at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 09:23:58 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:23:58 -0700
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <1129209047.946591.44780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129152455.3374.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.1991.1129194578.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129209047.946591.44780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129209838.338444.313960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I got it.   I had get_long_array placed after the method that was
calling it..
i.e.

void doStuf(...) {
   x = get_long_array(...);
}

static long *get_long_array(PyObject *data, int *data_size) {
...
}

...I put get_long_array before it in my code..and its fine.

Thanks

Java and Swing wrote:
> Fredrik,
>   ...I tried using your code...
>
> static long *get_long_array(PyObject *data, int *data_size) {
>     int i, size;
>     long* out;
>     PyObject* seq;
>
>     seq = PySequence_Fast(data, "expected a sequence");
>     if (!seq)
>         return NULL;
>
>     size = PySequence_Size(seq);
>     if (size < 0)
>         return NULL;
>
>     if (data_size)
>         *data_size = size;
>
>     out = (long*) PyMem_Malloc(size * sizeof(long));
>     if (!out) {
>         Py_DECREF(seq);
>         PyErr_NoMemory();
>         return NULL;
>     }
>
>     for (i = 0; i < size; i++)
>         out[i] = PyInt_AsLong(PySequence_Fast_GET_ITEM(seq, i));
>
>     Py_DECREF(seq);
>
>     if (PyErr_Occurred()) {
>         PyMem_Free(out);
>         out = NULL;
>     }
>
>     return out;
>
> }
>
>
> and I get this error..
>
> C:\project\myapp.c(549) : error C2040: 'get_long_array' : 'long
> *(struct _object *,int *)' differs in levels of indirection from 'int
> ()'
>
> any idea?
>
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> > Jeremy Moles wrote:
> >
> > > Probably what you want to do though is just keep the tuple as is and
> > > iterate over it using the PySequence_* protocol:
> > >
> > > http://docs.python.org/api/sequence.html
> >
> > I did post a complete and tested example a few days ago, which contained
> > code that showed how to do this.  a complete waste of time, of course.
> > 
> > </F>



From brianmce at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:59:21 2005
From: brianmce at gmail.com (brianmce at gmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:59:21 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1128694740.418262.95470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128697161.779059.296520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

For this, you can also define the __eq__ method, which will be
preferred to __cmp__ for equallity tests while still using __cmp__ for
searching / comparisons.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 13:08:24 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:08:24 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h4n6ag.5uhq7a7xe1v4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
   ...
> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
> told that that's what's going on.

In firms where marketing has lots of power, they may indeed well decide
to pursue those "10 millions" by demanding an expenditure of effort
that's totally out of proportion (to the detriment of the other "190
millions", of course, since there IS a finite amount of development
resources to allocate).  Maybe that's part of the explanation for the
outstanding success of some enterprises founded by engineers, led by
engineers, and staffed overwhelmingly with engineers, competing with
other firms where marketing wield power...?


Alex


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct 13 16:17:04 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:17:04 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
Message-ID: <33765778-7F70-438D-8020-1FEC94CE1FA9@sbcglobal.net>

Is there any emerging consensus on the "best" UI for toolkit.  Tk  
never quite made it but from what I can see, both qt and wxWin are  
both doing fairly well in general. I'm already aware of the licensing  
issues surrounding qt (fwiw, I think their license fee for commercial  
use is eminently reasonable), so aside from that, I was wondering if  
there was any feedback readers could provide on the following:

1) Which plays best with Python? Ideally, it would already have some  
higher-level python libraries to hide the grotty stuff that is almost  
never needed when actually implementing apps.

2) Reliability of each?

3) Useful external libraries for each?

4) Ease of installation/use on OS X?

Something with a genuinely useful text widget would be nice, but I  
know that's too much to expect...ah, TkText widget, where are you  
when I need you.


Thanks,
Ken


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 30 21:03:39 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 02:03:39 +0000
Subject: Pickling and unpickling inherited attributes
In-Reply-To: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk3u1r$t0g$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex wrote:
> I have a serious problem and I hope there is some solution. It is
> easier to illustrate with a simple code:
> 
> 
>>>>class Parent(object):
> 
> 	__slots__=['A', 'B']
> 	def __init__(self, a, b):
> 		self.A=a; self.B=b
> 	def __getstate__(self):
> 		return self.A, self.B
> 	def __setstate__(self, tup):
> 		self.A, self.B=tup
> 
> 
> 
>>>>class Child(Parent):
> 
> 	__slots__=['C',]
> 	def __init__(self, c):
> 		self.C=c
> 	def __getstate__(self):
> 		return self.C,
> 	def __setstate__(self, tup):
> 		self.C, =tup
> 
> 
> 
>>>>obj=Child(1)
>>>>obj.A=2
>>>>obj.B=3
>>>>obj.A
> 
> 2
> 
>>>>obj.B
> 
> 3
> 
>>>>obj.C
> 
> 1
> 
>>>>objct.Z=4
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#60>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     objct.Z=4
> AttributeError: 'Child' object has no attribute 'Z'
> 
> So far so good.. Object obj inherited attributes (A and B) from the
> parent class and refuses to take any new ones. But look what happens
> when I try to pickle and unpickle it:
> 
> 
>>>>import cPickle
>>>>File=open('test', 'w')
>>>>cPickle.dump(obj, File)
>>>>File.close()
>>>>
>>>>file1=open('test', 'r')
>>>>objct=cPickle.load(file1)
>>>>file1.close()
>>>>objct.A
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#55>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     objct.A
> AttributeError: A
> 
>>>>objct.C
> 
> 1
> 
> Its own attribute (C) value is restored but the value of an inherited
> attribute (A) is not. I tried pickling protocol 2, and module pickle
> instead of cPickle, all with the same result.
> 
> What can be done?! Or maybe nothing can be done?
> 
> I would greatly appreciate an advice. A lot of code is written, but now
> we have a need for pickling and unpickling objects and discovered this
> problem.
> 
You have explicitly told the objects' class definition to only store the 
C attribute as a part of the object state.

If you change the definition of child to:

class Child(Parent):

	__slots__=['C',]
	def __init__(self, c):
		self.C=c
	def __getstate__(self):
		return self.A, self.B, self.C,
	def __setstate__(self, tup):
		self.A, self.B, self.C, =tup

everything works as you expect. But I presume you want the subclass to 
require no knowledge of the superclass state?

In that case you might consider rewriting Child as

class Child(Parent):

     __slots__ = ['C']	# only tuples need trailing comma
     def __init__(self, c):
         self.C = c
     def __getstate__(self):
         return Parent.__getstate__(self) + (self.C, )
     def __setstate__(self, t):
         self.C = t[-1]
         Parent.__setstate__(self, t[:-1])

This would work adequately. May I ask your use case for __slots__? I 
presume there is a specific reason why you can't just code the classes as

class Parent(object):
     def __init__(self, a, b):
         self.A = a
         self.B = b

class Child(Parent):
     def __init__(self, c):
         self.C = c

since these definitions will pickle and unpickle perfectly.

A couple of other notes:

First, it's always safest to open pickle files in binary mode, as this 
will eliminate the chance of platform differences making a pickle 
written on one architecture or platform being unreadable by another.

Secondly, it's usual to have the subclass explicitly call the superclass 
to initialize that portion of the instance. So it would be more 
typically Pythonic to write

class Child(Parent):
     def __init__(self, c):
         Parent.__init__(self, a, b)
         self.C = c

This allows you to pass the a and b values into the creator call in the 
following way:

obj = Child(2, 3, 1)

rather than explicitly setting attributes of the Child instance in line. 
If your inheritance patterns are complex you may find it useful to 
investigate the super() function.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 22:33:03 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 19:33:03 -0700
Subject: divide
Message-ID: <1d987df30510061933t58bffe8ai5f32b0e08ff9037d@mail.gmail.com>

I have three points in a rectangle and i wonder how to use PYTHON to divide
the rectangle into three
parts with each point located in the different part.
For instance, Point A
goes to Part I, Point B goes to Part II and Point C goes to Part III.
And the distance between any point within Part I and Point A is smaller than
to Point B and Point C. And the similar rule applies to Part II and Part
III.
Thanks for any idea.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20051006/08b9f6ff/attachment.html>

From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 19 23:04:48 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:04:48 GMT
Subject: destroy your self????
In-Reply-To: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <kPD5f.162041$xl6.94391@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

KraftDiner wrote:
> if I create an object like...
> 
> obj = None
> ...
> obj = anObject()
> 
> can obj set itself to none in some method of the class?
> 


Do you mean like this?


 >>> def foo():
...   global foo
...   del foo
...
 >>> foo()
 >>> foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'foo' is not defined


Cheers,
    Ron


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 21:22:04 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:22:04 GMT
Subject: feature request / max size limit on StringIO
References: <mailman.2559.1130264559.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435ed60c.966020714@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:15:02 -0400, "Clark C. Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:

>Hello.  I've not been able to use cStringIO since I have the need to
>ensure that the memory buffers created are bounded within a resonable
>limit set by specifications.  No, this code does not properly belong
>in my application as the modules that use "files" should not have
>to care about any resource limitations that may be imposed.
>
>class LimitedBuffer(StringIO):
>    def __init__(self, buffer = None, maxsize = 5 * 1000 * 1000):
>        StringIO.__init__(self,buffer)
>        self.cursize = 0
>        self.maxsize = maxsize
>    def write(self,str):
>        self.cursize += len(str)
>        if self.cursize > self.maxsize:
>            raise IOError("allocated buffer space exceeded")
>        return StringIO.write(self,str)

You might want to use StringIO's own knowledge of its writing position (self.pos or self.tell())
and then you wouldn't need cursize, nor to worry about whether seek has been used to
reposition, maybe writing the same section of file over and over for some reason.

I'm not sure whether seek beyond the end actually causes allocation, but I don't think so.
So you should be ok just checking self.pos+len(strarg)> self.maxsize.
There's also some interesting things going on with self.buf and self.buflist attributes, which
probably is not doing as simple a job of buffering as you might think. Maybe you'll want to wrap
a byte array or an mmap instance to store your info, depending on what you are doing?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From http  Wed Oct  5 06:39:06 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 03:39:06 -0700
Subject: Quick help needed: how to format an integer  ?
References: <mailman.1505.1128506112.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xk6gsb645.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"durumdara at mailpont.hu" <durumdara at mailpont.hu> writes:
> "10001234" -> ""10.001.234""
> So I need thousand separators.
> Can anyone helps me with a simply solution (like %xxx) ?

I think you're supposed to do a locale-specific conversion (I've never
understood that stuff).  You could also do something like this:

>>> def f(n):
        if n < 0: return '-' + f(-n)
        if n < 1000: return '%d' % n
        return f(n//1000) + '.' + '%03d' % (n%1000)

>>> f(39009000900909090000009)
'39.009.000.900.909.090.000.009'
>>> f(39802183)
'39.802.183'
>>> f(3008)
'3.008'
>>> f(0)
'0'
>>> f(-9898239839)
'-9.898.239.839'
>>> f(12345)
'12.345'


From newswire_4_developers at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 11:50:05 2005
From: newswire_4_developers at yahoo.com (newswire_4_developers)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:50:05 -0000
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] EVENTS, HUMOUR, BOOKS related to SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT
Message-ID: <djthbd+f8ss@eGroups.com>

CONTENTS:
** EVENTS ** EUROPE **
** BOOKS **
** EVENTS ** USA **
** CALL FOR SPEAKERS ** EUROPE
** CALL FOR SPEAKERS ** USA
** HUMOUR **
** OTHER INFORMATION - MAGAZINES, WHITEPAPERS ... **

********************************

** EVENTS ** EUROPE **
**********************

Enterprise Architect Conference
Arts Hotel, Barcelona - Nov 6-8 2005
http://www.ftponline.com/conferences/eas/barcelona/
Quote ref: EASMC

***

Architectural Reference Model for Enterprise Applications
2 Day Course.
Jan 2006
London UK
www.ratio.co.uk/ARM%20-%20Course%20Outline.pdf
email: info AT ratio.co.uk
See related article: 
http://www.ftponline.com/ea/magazine/summer2005/features/mcollinscope
/

***

8th International Conference on Enterprise Information Systems
23 - 27, May 2006             
Paphos - Cyprus 	
http://www.iceis.org/cfp.htm

***

Fourth International Symposium on Formal Methods for Components and 
Objects (FMCO 2005)
DATES 1 - 4 November 2005
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://fmco.liacs.nl/fmco05.html


** BOOKS **
***********

*** Essential Skills for Agile Development ***

This book has an elegant yet highly effective minimalist style. 
Rather than long theoretical discussion the book does what it does 
by example - and there's plenty of example code given. 
Overall the book covers many topics and issues related to agile 
software development, including: keeping code fit; 
handling inappropriate references; seperating database, UI and 
domain logic; 
unit testing and acceptance testing amongst others.The reason this 
book is to be recommended to developers, 
is that even if you're not doing full on "agile" development, 
there's still plenty of useful material in it. 
The lack of hype is also refreshing - the book focuses on examples 
and shows good solutions. You should get it!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/9993776726/ratiogroupltd-20/qid=1128944604/sr=8-
1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-3185742-7805624?
v=glance&s=books&n=507846


*** Agile Development with Iconix Process ***
"
 because of this, we have been able to consistently deliver great 
software based on the original core time-after-time 
"
"the authors 
 identify an `essential' list of agile practices to 
follow, including aggressive testing and frequent small releases 
"
"
 it is indeed rare for this level of detail to be given to a 
single example 
"
"
 finally a real world example with real-world solutions
"
(extracts from amazon.com)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590594649/ratiogroupltd-20?
creative=327641&camp=14573&link_code=as1


*** Agile and Iterative Development, A Manager's Guide ***
Using statistically significant research and large-scale case 
studies, noted methods 
expert Craig Larman presents the most convincing case ever made for 
iterative development. 
Larman offers a concise, information-packed summary of the key ideas 
that drive all agile and iterative processes, 
with the details of four noteworthy iterative methods: Scrum, XP, 
RUP, and Evo. 
This book is a must if you need to get a grip on the spectrum of 
agile development techniques out there.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0131111558//ratiogroupltd-20/qid=1128944877/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-
3185742-7805624?v=glance&s=books


** EVENTS ** USA **
*******************

29th Internationalization & Unicode Conference
March 6-8, 2006
San Francisco, California, USA
http://www.unicodeconference.org/IUC29call

***

SD WEST 2006
Santa Clara Convention Center
Santa Clara, CA
March 13-17, 2006
http://www.cmpevents.com/SDw6/a.asp?option=C

***

15th International Conference
on Software Engineering and Data Engineering
(SEDE-2006)
Los Angeles, California
July 6-8, 2006
http://www.cnsqa.com/spw2006/jsp/html/spw/callforpapers.jsp

***

Software Test and Performance Conference
http://www.stpcon.com/
NOVEMBER 1-3, 2005
ROOSEVELT HOTEL
New York City

***

IEEE Software Architecture Conference.
(WICSA)  November 6-9, 2005
http://sunset.usc.edu/~softarch/wicsa5/


** CALL FOR SPEAKERS ** EUROPE
******************************
Call for Speakers
Software Developer Conference
May 15 and 16, 2006
Papendal Convention Center
Arnhem, The Netherlands
http://www.sdc.nl/


** CALL FOR SPEAKERS ** USA
***************************
SD BEST PRACTICES 2006
Hynes Convention Center
Boston, MA
September 11-14, 2006
Call for Abstracts will open January 2006
http://www.sdexpo.com/

***

Call for Papers
International Symposium on
Software Testing and Analysis
Portland, Maine
July 17-20 2006
http://www.cis.udel.edu/~gibson/issta/cfp.html

***

Call for Papers
15th International Conference
on Software Engineering and Data Engineering
Software Process Change - Meeting the Challenge
(SEDE-2006)
Los Angeles, California
July 6-8, 2006
http://www.cnsqa.com/spw2006/jsp/html/spw/callforpapers.jsp



** HUMOUR **
************

"It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to 
students that have had prior exposure
to BASIC; as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated 
beyond hope of regeneration."
-Dijkstra

""The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to 
constants; instead of
referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every appearance, the 
variable PI can be given
that value with a DATA statement and used instead of the longer form 
of the constant.
This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi 
change."
- FORTRAN manual for Xerox computers

"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it
harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup

Star Trek:
Riker [puzzled]
-   What the hell is Microsoft? 
Data [turns to explain]
-   Allow me to explain. We will send this program, for some reason 
called Windows, through the Borg command pathways. Once inside their 
root command unit, it will begin consuming system resources at an 
unstoppable rate. 
Picard:
-   But the Borg have the ability to adapt. Won't they alter their 
processing systems to increase their storage capacity? 
Data:
    Yes, Captain. But when Windows detects this, it creates a new 
version of itself known as an upgrade. 
    The use of resources increases exponentially with each 
iteration. The Borg will not be able to adapt quickly enough. 
    Eventually all of their processing ability will be taken over 
and none will be available for their normal operational functions. 
Picard:
-   Excellent work. This is even better than that unsolvable 
geometric shape idea.


** OTHER INFORMATION **
***********************
OBJECTIVE VIEW ISSUE 8 - AGILE DEVELOPMENT SPECIAL

Kent Tong on Turning Comments into Code
Elfreide Dustin on Unit Testing
Tim Mackinnon on Agile Project Retrospectives
Scott Ambler with the latest update on Agile Model Driven Development
Doug Rosenbert and Matt Stephens on Combining UML with TDD
see www.ratio.co.uk/objectiveview.html

***

Call for Award Nominations -
28th International Conference on Software Engineering (ICSE'2006)
http://www.isr.uci.edu/icse-06/

***

Want your event listed? email info AT ratio.co.uk - no charges are 
applied,
this is a service we offer to the software development community.





From mhellwig at xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 22 09:19:16 2005
From: mhellwig at xs4all.nl (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:19:16 +0200
Subject: pyHook example.py brakes windows dead keys mechanisme
Message-ID: <435a3c56$0$11078$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hi all,

I noticed that the "dead keys"* mechanism (XPSP2 NL, keyboard map US, 
input language Dutch) doesn't work when running the pyHooks (python 241) 
example.
Instead of ? ("o) I immediately get ""o.
If I close the pyHooks example the expected behavior returns.

Is there a way how I can get both working at the same time?


-- 
mph


* typing " prints nothing <the dead key>, when continuing with o the 
character ? is printed, the same mechanimse applies for ' ~ ` in 
combination with most of the letters e.g. e(???), n(?), o(???) and c(?).


From qvx3000 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 03:19:47 2005
From: qvx3000 at gmail.com (qvx)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 00:19:47 -0700
Subject: Simulating low bandwidth network on localhost
In-Reply-To: <fa6ek1dcd0q5qnem4peq4vimba2s6kualr@4ax.com>
References: <1128728893.814798.44050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<fa6ek1dcd0q5qnem4peq4vimba2s6kualr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1128755987.340587.251720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I forgot to tell you that I'm using Windows.



From jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk  Fri Oct 14 09:18:51 2005
From: jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk (Jim O'D)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:18:51 +0100
Subject: my array subset method could be improved?
In-Reply-To: <dioan4$qj1$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
References: <dio954$4a1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<dioan4$qj1$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <diob0u$4jm$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>


> 
> new = Numeric.compress(Numeric.less(a,0),a)

Ah, thank you!

Sorry about subject mangle, I gave a silly example first time round.

Jim


From rolf.wester at ilt.fraunhofer.de  Fri Oct 21 04:13:20 2005
From: rolf.wester at ilt.fraunhofer.de (Rolf Wester)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:13:20 +0200
Subject: Python extension module segmentation fault
Message-ID: <4358a322$1@news.fhg.de>

Hi,

I' trying to make an extension module that passes Numeric arrays. The
wrapper function is (swig generated and modified by myself):

static PyObject *_wrap_my_func(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
    PyObject * resultobj = 0 ;
    PyObject * obj0 = 0 ;
    PyArrayObject * mat = 0 ;

	std::cout << __FILE__ << "  " <<  __LINE__ << std::endl;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,(char *)"O:my_func",&obj0)) goto fail;
	std::cout << __FILE__ << "  " <<  __LINE__ <<  "  " << obj0 << std::endl;
 	mat = (PyArrayObject *) PyArray_ContiguousFromObject(obj0,
PyArray_DOUBLE, 1, 1);
	std::cout << __FILE__ << "  " <<  __LINE__ <<  "  " << mat << std::endl;

    Py_INCREF(Py_None); resultobj = Py_None;
    return resultobj;
    fail:
    return NULL;
}

The shared object is build with:

g++ -c -g -fPIC -I./  -I/usr/local/include/python2.4
-I/usr/local/include/python2.4/Numeric  mytest_wrap.cpp -o mytest_wrap.o

g++ -shared -L/usr/local/lib/python2.4/config/  mytest_wrap.o
-lpython2.4 -lm   -o _mytest.so


the Python file reads:

import _mytest
from Numeric import *
mat = ones(100,Float64)
print _mytest.my_func(mat)

When running this I get the output:

mytest_wrap.cpp  1499
mytest_wrap.cpp  1502  0x402b55e8
Speicherzugriffsfehler (segmentation fault)

I also ran this with valgrind. Part of valgrinds output is:

==15792== Reading syms from
/mnt/pubdsk/A31/2003/DOKUMENTATION/WESTER/pr3/OPT/opt2.0/test/_mytest.so
(0x1BE7E000)
==15792== Reading syms from
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Numeric/multiarray.so (0x1B90F000)
==15792== Reading syms from
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Numeric/_numpy.so (0x1BFDB000)
==15792== Reading syms from
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Numeric/umath.so (0x1BFF1000)
==15792== Reading syms from
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/strop.so (0x1B91A000)
==15792== Reading syms from /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/math.so
(0x1C103000)
==15792== Reading syms from
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/struct.so (0x1C209000)
==15792== Reading syms from
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/binascii.so (0x1C210000)
==15792== Reading syms from
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/cStringIO.so (0x1C216000)
mytest_wrap.cpp  1499
mytest_wrap.cpp  1502  0x1bca7610
==15792== Invalid read of size 4
==15792==    at 0x1BECE794: _wrap_my_func (mytest_wrap.cpp:1503)
==15792==    by 0x811E685: PyCFunction_Call (methodobject.c:93)
==15792==    by 0x80C708F: PyEval_EvalFrame (ceval.c:1499)
==15792==    by 0x80C8933: PyEval_EvalCodeEx (ceval.c:2736)
==15792==    by 0x80C8B64: PyEval_EvalCode (ceval.c:484)
==15792==    by 0x80F74A7: PyRun_SimpleFileExFlags (pythonrun.c:1265)
==15792==    by 0x80558D6: Py_Main (main.c:484)
==15792==    by 0x8054F86: main (python.c:23)
==15792==  Address 0x38 is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd
==15792==
==15792== Process terminating with default action of signal 11 (SIGSEGV)
==15792==  Access not within mapped region at address 0x38
==15792==    at 0x1BECE794: _wrap_my_func (mytest_wrap.cpp:1503)
==15792==    by 0x811E685: PyCFunction_Call (methodobject.c:93)
==15792==    by 0x80C708F: PyEval_EvalFrame (ceval.c:1499)
==15792==    by 0x80C8933: PyEval_EvalCodeEx (ceval.c:2736)
==15792==    by 0x80C8B64: PyEval_EvalCode (ceval.c:484)
==15792==    by 0x80F74A7: PyRun_SimpleFileExFlags (pythonrun.c:1265)
==15792==    by 0x80558D6: Py_Main (main.c:484)
==15792==    by 0x8054F86: main (python.c:23)
==15792==
==15792== ERROR SUMMARY: 1 errors from 1 contexts (suppressed: 8093 from 7)
==15792==


I would be very appreciative for any help.

With kind regards

Rolf Wester






From stryder at telenet.invalid  Tue Oct 18 20:22:07 2005
From: stryder at telenet.invalid (Aragorn)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:22:07 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F3BE234B1BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <Pkg5f.26670$ka4.1044509@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

On Wednesday 19 October 2005 01:41, John Bokma stood up and spoke the
following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.misc...:/

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> Oh, and if you think I'm saying something shocking by suggesting that
>> somebody is a psychopath, I'm not. Something like one in five of the
>> general population are psychopaths,
> 
> psychopaths according to DSM IV, or just some silly test from a
> magazine?

If I read him correctly, then he is referring to DSM IV, yes.

>> With training and/or a good dose of enlightened self-interest, most
>> psychopaths are perfectly capable of learning to not be selfish
> 
> Yup, like everybody can become an olympic swimmer, or get a degree.
> Just work, and you'll make it.
> 
>> Actually doing that harm is, or at least should be, although sadly
>> when we allow the psychopaths to make the rules, they tend to make
>> rules that allow themselves to prosper at our expense.
> 
> Hmmmm... and probably one in three is paranoid?

Paranoia is a typically schizophrenic tendency.  Schizophrenia occurs
with one in every thousand people.  It's a genetically caused disorder,
resulting from a combination of multiple genes.  It's also progressive
in that it affects more of the brain over time if not treated properly.

-- 
With kind regards,

*Aragorn*
(Registered Gnu/Linux user #223157)


From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct  4 10:31:54 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:31:54 +0200
Subject: Which SQL module to use?
In-Reply-To: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4342925A.1040807@ghaering.de>

mrstephengross wrote:
> I'd like to do some basic SQL stuff in Python. It seems like there are
> a heck of a lot of SQL modules for Python. What's the simplest and
> easiest one to use?

It looks like pysqlite would be good for getting started with the 
SQL/Python combo:

http://www.pysqlite.org/

It's an embedded database engine, so you do not need to install a 
separate database server. Just import the module and you have a database 
engine in your Python:

 >>> from pysqlite2 import dbapi2 as sqlite

Now, let's create a database connection to a local file mydb.db. As this 
file does not exist, yet, SQLite will create it automatically.

 >>> con = sqlite.connect("mydb.db")
 >>> con
<pysqlite2.dbapi2.Connection object at 0x00967B18>

con is the database connection object.

Now, Python needs a cursor object for most database operations, so let's 
create one:

 >>> cur = con.cursor()
 >>> cur
<pysqlite2.dbapi2.Cursor object at 0x009CFF50>

We need data to play with, so let's create a simple table:

 >>> cur.execute("create table persons(id integer primary key, name text)")

Now let's populate the table:

 >>> cur.execute("insert into persons(name) values (?)", ("David",))
 >>> cur.execute("insert into persons(name) values (?)", ("Rachel",))
 >>> cur.execute("insert into persons(name) values (?)", ("Simon",))
 >>>

Commit the changes, so they're visible to other database connections 
that would open the file mydb.db.

 >>> con.commit()

Now let's try some queries:

 >>> cur.execute("select id, name from persons")
 >>> cur.fetchall()
[(1, u'David'), (2, u'Rachel'), (3, u'Simon')]
 >>>

Note that SQLite returns Unicode strings for TEXT.

Next, let's try to use a parametrized query. pysqlite uses the qmark 
style, so you just put ? as placeholders:

 >>> whichname = "Rachel"
 >>> cur.execute("select id, name from persons where name=?", (whichname,))
 >>> cur.fetchall()
[(2, u'Rachel')]

That's enough for a start I think.

Maybe I could whet your appetite. The pysqlite documentation has a few 
other small examples at 
http://initd.org/pub/software/pysqlite/doc/usage-guide.html#brief-tutorial

But nothing extensive, yet.

HTH,

-- Gerhard



From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sun Oct  9 17:10:59 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 17:10:59 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<gm0jk1dp8pj2jmdlkcnc8uutbrabg643q0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CHf2f.345$S43.81902@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:gm0jk1dp8pj2jmdlkcnc8uutbrabg643q0 at 4ax.com...
>
> Your post brings up a meta-issue.  How long should posts be?
> I note several schools of thought.
>

Your post brings up a usenetiquette issue. Why do you think that 
perl/python/java/c people are interested in your personal discussions of 
email?

Matt 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 19:08:05 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:08:05 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.29.22.49.02.45985@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h57cu1.1jywbjibu87obN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.09.02.27.88280@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h58jkz.1byi9q5qwo1owN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.22.20.02.188736@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h598gf.y63d2z1ig1x93N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
   ...
> > No.  But if you get a totally unexpected exception, 
> 
> I'm more concerned about getting an expected exception -- or more
> accurately, *missing* an expected exception. Matching on Exception is too
> high. EOFError will probably need to be handled separately, since it often
> isn't an error at all, just a change of state. IOError is the bad one.
> What else can go wrong?

Lots of things, but not ones you should WISH your application to
survive.

> > something that shows
> > the world has gone crazy and most likely any further action you perform
> > would run the risk of damaging the user's persistent data since the
> > macchine appears to be careening wildly out of control... WHY would you
> > want to perform any further action?
> 
> In circumstances where, as you put it, the hard disk has crashed, the CPU
> is on strike, or the memory has melted down, not only can you not recover
> gracefully, but you probably can't even fail gracefully -- at least not
> without a special purpose fail-safe operating system.

Right: as I explained, all you can do is switch operation over to a "hot
spare" server (a different machine), through the good services of a
"monitor" machine - and hope the redundancy you've built into your
storage system (presumably a database with good solid mirroring running
on other machines yet, if your app is as critical as that) has survived.


> I'm not concerned with mylist.append(None) unexpectedly -- and
> impossibly? -- raising an ImportError. I can't predict every way things
> can explode, and even if they do, I can't safely recover from them. But I

Exactly my point -- and yet if you use "except:", that's exactly what
you're TRYING to do, rather than let your app die.

> can fail gracefully from *expected* errors: rather than the application
> just crashing, I can at least try to put up a somewhat informative dialog
> box, or at least print something to the console.

You can do that from your sys.excepthook routine, if it's OK for your
app to die afterwards.  What we're discussing here are only, and
strictly, cases in which you wish your app to NOT die, but rather keep
processing (not just give nice error diagnostics and then terminate,
that's what sys.excepthook is for).  And what I'm saying is that you
should keep processing only for errors you *DO* expect, and should not
even try if the error is NOT expected.

>. If opening a preferences
> file fails, I can fall back on default settings. If writing the
> preferences file fails, I can tell the user that their settings won't be
> saved, and continue. Just because the disk is full or their disk quota is
> exceeded, doesn't necessarily mean the app can't continue with the job on
> hand.

Sure, that's why you catch IOError, which covers these _expected_ cases
(or, if you want to be a bit wider, maybe OSError) AND check its errno
attribute to ensure you haven't mistakenly caught something you did NOT
in fact expect (and thus can't really handle), to use a bare raise
statement to re-raise the "accidentally caught" exception if needed.

But if something goes wrong that you had NOT anticipated, just log as
much info as you can for the postmortem, give nice diagnostics to the
user if you wish, and do NOT keep processing -- and for these
diagnostic-only purposes, use sys.excepthook, not a slew of try/except
all over your application making it crufty and unmaintainable.


Alex


From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 28 06:17:18 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 03:17:18 -0700
Subject: How to translate python into C
In-Reply-To: <djst41$n6t$1@online.de>
References: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djst41$n6t$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <1130494638.886179.192300@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your tips Niemann:)

Regards, 
Johnny



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 09:22:12 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:22:12 +0100
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di5spq$5nh$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I came accross what i think is a serious bug in the python interpreter.
> 
> Membership testing seems not to work for list of objects when these
> objects have a user-defined __cmp__ method.
> It is present in Python 2.3 and 2.4. I don't know about other versions.
> The following code illustrates the bug:
> from random import choice
> class OBJ:
> 	def __init__(self,identifier):
> 		self.id=identifier
> 		self.allocated=0
> 	def __cmp__(self,other):
> 		return cmp(other.allocated,self.allocated)
> mylist=[OBJ(i) for i in range(20)]
> excluded=[obj for obj in mylist if obj.id>choice(range(20))]
> for obj in mylist:
> 	if obj in excluded:
> 		assert obj.id in [objt.id for objt in excluded]
> 		continue
> 
I presume you just put the "continue" in there for fun?

 >>> for obj in mylist:
...   print obj in excluded
...
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
True
 >>> OBJ(0) == OBJ(1)
True

> Running the above snippet will trigger the assert. The culprit seems to
> be the __cmp__ method which sorts on a key with constant value.

Well indeed. As far as I can see your objects will all test equal. Did 
you mean the __cmp__ method to return cmp(other.id, self.id)?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 16 01:22:58 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:22:58 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
Message-ID: <diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"M?ns Rullg?rd" <mru at inprovide.com> wrote in message 
news:yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf at ford.inprovide.com...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>> news:86ll0vs1sw.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

>>> What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
>>> practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
>>> PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
>>> Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
>>> didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.

>>     Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car
>> without an engine.

> That's more like buying a computer without a CPU, which I can in fact
> do.  Buying a computer without ms windows is more like buying a hifi
> set without a Britney Spears CD.  I can do that too.

    I guess I wasn't explicit enough. Most people who want cars also want an 
engine. Some don't. Dealers could sell cars and engines separately. They 
just (generally) don't. There is nothing illegal or immoral about this.

    DS




From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 05:10:32 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:10:32 GMT
Subject: 'super' to only be used for diamond inheritance problems?
Message-ID: <s4m9f.25186$m%6.9640@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

I've seen a few discussion about the use of 'super' in Python, including 
the opinion that 'super' should only be used to solve inheritance 
diamond problem. (And that a constructor that wants to call the 
superclass methods should just call them by name and forget about super.)
What is people's opinion on this? Does it make any sense?


From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 08:33:15 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 05:33:15 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I see that, although I don't totall grasp the code.  However, I am
looking to basically emulate a command prompt.  i.e. everything u see
in the windows command prompt should be displayed back in python.

How can I do it without files?

Kent Johnson wrote:
> jas wrote:
> > Any other ideas? or examples of using subprocess to do what I was
> > asking?
>
> Actually I thought I was giving an example of what you were asking:
> - on windows
> - send a series of commands to a command process
> - capture the result to a variable
>
> The example I referenced sends a series of HELP commands to cmd.exe, captures the output of the commands and saves it to a file.
>
> What did I miss?
>
> Kent
>
> >
> >
> > Kent Johnson wrote:
> >
> >>jas wrote:
> >>
> >>>I would like to redirect the output from os.system to a variable, but
> >>>am having trouble.  I tried using os.popen(..).read() ...but that
> >>>doesn't give me exactly what i want.
> >>
> >>Here is an example using subprocess:
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/9fa3a3c287e8e2a3?hl=en&
> >>
> >>Kent
> >>
> >>
> >>>..this is windows by the way.
> >>>
> >>>For example:
> >>>tmp = os.popen("hostname").read()
> >>>
> >>>...works as expected.
> >>>
> >>>however,
> >>>
> >>>tmp = os.popen("cmd").read()
> >>>...i would like to have access to the cmd process...i.e. enter commands
> >>>like a normal command line. os.system() allows this, but i dont want
> >>>output to the screen..i wanna store it to a variable.  then send
> >>>content of variable elsewhere,  receive more input and submit it.
> >>>almost emulate the windows command prompt.
> >>>
> >>>any ideas?
> >>>
> > 
> >



From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Wed Oct 12 12:06:04 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:06:04 -0600
Subject: Listen for directory events
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F30@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

Anyone have any advice on listening for directory events?  

I'd like to fire off my script if new files are added to a directory.
Right now, I've set up my script as a scheduled task (Windows XP) and
when the script is run periodically, it initially looks for new files
and does it's magic if there are some.  I assume I could have python
check for new files then sleep for a bit, and check again.  If I did it
that way, would I run into problems running other py scripts while the
first one was active?  I read about processes being protected from each
other, but didn't really grok it in fullness.

Kev




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 06:19:20 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:19:20 +1000
Subject: A question about searching with multiple strings
References: <1129927157.674735.13000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.10.19.20.442752@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:39:17 -0700, googleboy wrote:

> 
> Hi there.
> 
> I have defined a class called Item with several (about 30 I think)
> different attributes (is that the right word in this context?).  An
> abbreviated example of the code for this is:
> 
> class Item(object):
> 
> 	def __init__(self, height, length, function):
> 		params = locals()
> 		del params['self']
> 		self.__dict__.update(params)

I get very worried when I see code like that. It makes me stop and think
about what it does, and why you would want to do it. I worry about hidden
side effects. Instead of just groking the code instantly, I've got to stop
and think. You're taking a copy of the locals, deleting self from it, and
them updating self's dictionary with them... why? What do you hope to
achieve?

If I were project manager, and one of my coders wrote something like this,
I would expect him or her to have a really good reason for it. I'd be
thinking not only of hidden bugs ("what if there is something in locals
you don't expect?"), but every time a developer has to work on this class,
they have to stop and think about it.

Joel (of Joel On Software fame) talks about code looking wrong and
smelling dirty. This code might work. It might be perfectly safe. But
there's a whiff to this code.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html



> 	def __repr__(self):
> 		all_items = self.__dict__.items()
> 		return '%s,%s,%s' % (self.height, self.length, self.function)

You aren't using all_items. Why waste a lookup fetching it?

> I have a csv file that I use to store and retrieve all the info about
> each Item, one item per line.

Would you like to give us a couple of examples of items from the CSV file?


> I have written a little peice of python that lets me search through all
> Items (after reading them into a variable called all_items) and will
> return matching results:
> 
> 
> 
> for item in all_items:
> 
> 	strItem = str(item)
> 
> 	m = re.search(p[i], strItem, flags = re.I)
> 	if m:
> 		height = getattr(item, "height")
> 		length = getattr(item, "length")
> 		function = getattr(item, "function")
> 		print "height is %s, length is %s and function is %s" % height,
> length, function

And here we why global variables are Bad: without knowing what p is, how
are we supposed to understand this code?

> This has the limitation of only working over a single search item.

So you are searching items for items... I think you need to use a better
name for your class. What does class Item actually represent?

> I
> want to be able to search over an uncontrollable number of search
> strings because I will have people wanting to search over 2, 3 or even
> (maybe) as many as 5 different things.
>
> I was thinking that I would try to write a function that created a
> sublist of Items if it matched and then run subsequent searches over
> the subsequent search strings using this sublist.

That might work.
 
> I am not entirely sure how to store this subset of Items in such a way
> that I can make searches over it.

How about in a list?

> I guess I have to initialize a
> variable of type Item, which I can use to add matching Item's to,  but
> I have no idea how to do that....(If it was just a list I could say
> "sublist = []",  what do I use for self defined classes?  

See my next post (to follow).

> I Am also
> usure how to go about creating a function that will accept any number
> of parameters.

def func1(*args):
    for arg in args:
        print arg

def func2(mandatory, *args):
    print "Mandatory", mandatory
    for arg in args:
        print arg

Does that help?



-- 
Steven.



From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Wed Oct  5 13:18:45 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:18:45 GMT
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
	<mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128532725.4560.25.camel@blackwidow>

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 12:56 -0400, Jonathan LaCour wrote:
> > class Spam(object):
> >     cache = {}
> >     def __new__(cls, x):
> >         if cls.cache.has_key(x):
> >             return cls.cache[x]
> >     def __init__(self, x):
> >         self.x = x
> >         self.cache[x] = self
> >
> > a = Spam('foo')
> > b = Spam('foo')
> >
> > Well, in this case a and b are identical... to None!  I assume this is
> > because the test in __new__ fails so it returns None, I need to then
> > create a new Spam.. but how do I do that without calling __new__  
> > again?
> > I can't call __init__ because there's no self...
> >
> >
> 
> Oops, you forgot to return object.__new__(cls, x) in the case the  
> object isn't in the cache.  That should fix it.

Okay, one more question... say I then

c = Spam('bar')
del a
del b

I've removed all references to the object, except for the cache.  Do I
have to implement my own garbage collecting is or there some "magical"
way of doing this within Python?  I pretty much want to get rid of the
cache as soon as there are no other references (other than the cache).



From robic0 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 20 03:52:24 2005
From: robic0 at yahoo.com (robic0 at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:52:24 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pfhel11kj9fmf81n9of6gtdq1h3chrjhli@4ax.com>

On 14 Oct 2005 19:01:42 -0700, "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:
Xah Lee, I went through some of your web site, because of time
couldn't examine (but a few) code guides. Read all you philosophy
pages though,  even about languages I didn't know. I took a 
course in my Mechanical Engineering study days, an elective,
based on assembly lang  with a hex input keypad, no saves  
had to be right the first time. Before that, I did several
fortran programs and an array of HP (Hewlet Packard, 
reverse polish) scientific programs. This was my senior
year and I failed that class. The instructor was obnoxious
and that class (credits) prevented me from getting my 
degree (by 3 credits). Now acording to Pavlofs dog theory
I should not have wanted to persue any of these assembly
codes in the future. As it turns out, I threatend the 
dean with a suit, no extended symester, got out with
a 3.4 gpa, got a z80a machine, wrote a dissasembler
within 6 months, wrote a commercial program in assembly
6 months later, wrote a spreadsheet program 6 months 
later. From there I wrote a program called Action Memo,
a few years later (1985) that is something called "Act" now,
licensed by Lotus and Microsoft. Stolen from me in an
Ashton Tate/PC World contest which I only placed 2nd.
I won a software bundle, imagin that. But concept and
sourse was all they needed. Now I'm scratchin out a living
having worked for Quaterdeck, Microsft, McAfee, Symantec.
I applied Perl just over a year ago, the latest, after 
drivers, large scale apps, gui, com, java. I've written
over 14 million lines of code in 20 years and when I 
write in performance mode I rember back to the days
when I wrote TSR's because I don't think in terms of
macro or Perl. I know what the assembly is and man..
that never changes. I'm very afraid of how "hype"
affects new, young programmers. Larry Wall didn't do
so much with Perl, I could have done it in my sleep.
I may do something better, you never know man!!

>Microsoft Hatred, FAQ
>
>Xah Lee, 20020518
>
>    Question: U.S. Judges are not morons, and quite a few others are
>not morons. They find MS guilty, so it must be true.
>
>Answer: so did the German population thought Jews are morons by
>heritage, to the point that Jews should be exterminated from earth.
>Apparently, the entire German population cannot be morons, they must be
>right.
>
>Judge for yourself, is a principle i abide by. And when you judge, it
>is better to put some effort into it.
>
>How much you invest in this endearvor depends on how important the
>issue is to you. If you are like most people, for which the issue of
>Microsoft have remote effect on your personal well-being, then you can
>go out and buy a case of beer on one hand and pizza on the other, and
>rap with your online confabulation buddies about how evil is MS. If you
>are an author writing a book on this, then obviously its different
>because your reputation and ultimately daily bread depend on what you
>put down. If you are a MS competitor such as Apple or Sun, then
>obviously you will see to it with as much money as you can cough out
>that MS is guilty by all measures and gets put out of business. If you
>are a government employee such as a judge, of course it is your
>interest to please your boss, with your best accessment of the air.
>
>When i judge things, i like to imagine things being serious, as if my
>wife is a wager, my daughter is at stake, that any small factual error
>or mis-judgement or misleading perspective will cause unimaginable
>things to happen. Then, my opinions becomes better ones.
>
>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
>
>A: Now suppose there is a very ethical company E, whose products have
>the best performance/price ratio, and making all the competitors
>looking so majorly stupid and ultimately won over 90% of the market as
>decided by consumers. Is E now a monopoly? Apparently, beer drinkers
>and pizza eaters needs to study a bit on the word monopoly, from the
>perspectives of language to history to law. If they have some extra
>time, they can sharpen views from philosophy & logic contexts as well.
>
>    Q: What about all the people in the corporate environments who are
>forced to use MS products and aren't allowed the option/choice to use
>Mac/Linux/UNIX?
>
>A: Kick your boss's ass, or, choose to work for a company who have
>decisions that you liked.
>
>    Q: What about MS buying out all competitors?
>
>A: Microsoft offered me $1 grand for saying good things about them.
>They didn't put a gunpoint on my head. I CHOOSE to take the bribe.
>Likewise, sold companies can and have decided what's best for them.
>It's nothing like under gunpoint.
>
>    Q: Microsoft forced computer makers to not install competitor's
>applications or OSes.
>
>A: It is free country. Don't like MS this or that? Fuck MS and talk to
>the Solaris or BeOS or AIX or HP-UX or Apple or OS/2 or Amiga or NeXT
>or the Linuxes with their free yet fantastically easy-to-use and
>network-spamming X-Windows. Bad business prospects? Then grab the
>opportunity and become an entrepreneur and market your own beats-all
>OS. Too difficult? Let's sue Microsoft!
>
>    Q: Microsoft distributed their Internet Explorer web browser free,
>using their ?monopoly? power to put Netscape out of business.
>
>A: entirely inane coding monkeys listen: It takes huge investment to
>give away a quality software free. Netscape can give away Operating
>Systems free to put MS out of business too. Nobody is stopping Sun
>Microsystem from giving Java free, or BeOS a browser free, or Apple to
>bundle QuickTime deeply with their OS free.
>
>Not to mention that Netscape is worse than IE in just about every
>version till they become the OpenSource mozilla shit and eventually
>bought out by AOL and still shit.
>
>? Netscape struggles, announced open browser source code in 1998-01,
>industry shock
>http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html
>
>? Netscape browser code released in 1998-03. Mozilla FAQ.
>http://mozilla.org/docs/mozilla-faq.html
>
>? AOL buys Netscape in 1998-11 for 4.2 billion.
>http://news.com.com/2100-1023-218360.html?legacy=cnet
>
>? Jamie Zawinski, resignation and postmortem, 1999-04
>http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
>
>? suck.com, Greg Knauss & Terry Colon, 2000-04, Netscape 6 mockery
>http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/04/10/
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/200004,greg_knauss_netscape.zip
>
>? Xah Lee, Netscape Crap
>http://xahlee.org/Writ_dir/macos-talk/58.txt
>
>    Q: Microsoft implemented extra things to standard protocols in
>their OS so that other OS makers cannot be compatible with their OS
>while their OS can be compatible with all. They used this Embrace &
>Extend to lock out competitors.
>
>A: My perspective is this: suppose you are now a company who's OS sits
>over 90% of computers (regardless how this come to be for the moment).
>Now, lots of ?standard? protocols in the industry is a result of
>popularity (RFC = Really Fucking Common), and popularity resulted from
>being free, from the RFCs of the fantastically incompetent by the
>truely stupid unix tech morons. What can you do if you want to improve
>these protocols? If you go with totally different protocols, then the
>incompatibility with the rest 10% isn't your best interest. I would
>adopt existing protocols, and extend them with improvements. Being a
>commercial entity, i'm sorry that it is not my duty to release my
>improvments to my competitors. Any of you incompetent IBM/AIX/OS/2 or
>SGI/Irix or HP/HP-UX or Sun/Solaris or Apple/AU-X/Mac can do the same,
>not that they haven't.
>
>Of course, the universe of moronic unixers and Apple fanatics cannot
>see that. The unix idiots cannot see that their fantastically stupid
>protocols are fantastically stupid in the first place. The Apple
>fanatics are simply chronically fanatic.
>
>    Q: Microsoft product is notorious for their lack of security.
>
>A: In my very sound opinion, if Microsoft's OS's security flaws is
>measured at one, then the unixes are measured at one myriad. If unixes
>suddenly switch popularity with Windows, then the world's computers
>will collapse uncontrollably by all sorts of viruses and attacks. This
>can be seen for technical person who knows unix history well:
>
>? http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/freebooks.html (e.g.
>ftpd/proftpd, inetd/xinetd, sendmail/qmail, X-Windows, telnet, passwd,
>login, rsh, rlogin.)
>
>? on the criminality of buffer overflow, by Henry Baker, 2001.
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/buffer_overflow.html
>
>? Fast Food The UNIX Way:
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_fastfood_dir/fastfood.html
>
>? Jargon File: http://www.tuxedo.org/%7Eesr/jargon/
>
>? The Rise of Worse is Better, by Richard P. Gabriel, 1991, at
>http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html
>
>and plenty other pre-90s documents to get a sense of just how
>fantastically insecure unix was and is. Unix today is not just
>technically slacking in the ?security? department, but the unix
>ways created far more unmanageable security risks that's another topic
>to discuss.
>
>The unix crime, is not just being utmost technically sloppy. Its entire
>system and ?philosophy? created an entire generation of incompetent
>programers and thinking and programing languages, with damage that is a
>few magnitude times beyond all computer viruses and attacks damages in
>history combined. See also:
>
>? Responsible Software License:
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/responsible_license.html
>
>    Q: Microsoft products are simply poor quality.
>
>A: Perhaps this in general is true pre-1997. I think the vast majority
>of MS products today have better performance/price ratio then
>competitors. This includes their operating system, their input devices
>(mouse & keyboard), their X-Box gaming console, their software game
>titles, their software architectures and languages (.NET, C#), their
>technologies (few i know: SMB), and many of their software applications
>(suite of Office, which consistently ranked top since early 90s).
>
>e.g. Tom's hardware review on x-box, esp in comparison with Sony
>Playstation 2. (2002-02):
>http://www4.tomshardware.com/consumer/02q1/020204/index.html
>
>the leading role of MS Office products can be seen in MacUser &
>MacWorld magazine reviews through out early 90s.
>
>    Q: BeOS was once to be bundled with PC, but MS meddled with it and
>basically at the end fucked Be up.
>
>A: BeOS is a fantastically fucking useless OS. No DVD player, No Java,
>No QuickTime, No games, no Mathematica, no nothing. For all practical
>purposes, fucking useless in a different way than every donkey unixes.
>Not to mention the evil Apple computer, refused to pass the QuickTime
>technology, and tried to prevent BeOS from running on Apple hardware by
>refusing to release their PPC hardware spec. Be founder Jean-Louis
>Gassee wrote an article about it. Who's fucking whom?
>
>    Q: X inc tried to do W, but MS threatened to depart.
>
>A: Dear X inc., try to find a bigger dick for your needs. If you cannot
>find any, too bad! Suck it up to the big brother and hold on to what
>you can get! If you have the smarts, milk him dry! Free country, free
>to choose partnership. Ladies, previous night's indiscretion is not
>rape the morning after.
>
>    Q: I'm not a beer bucket or pizza hole, but i want to do research
>over the web. Is there any free stuff on the web i can grab? I'm an
>OpenSource advocate, i demand free things.
>
>A: ?
>http://www.moraldefense.com/Campaigns/Microsoft/Antitrust_FAQ/default.htm
>(The Center for the Moral Defense of Capitalism)
>
>? http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v21n2/friedman.html (The
>Business Community's Suicidal Impulse by Milton Friedman, 1999-03)
>local copy
>
>    Q: I'm thinking of putting my wife and daughter on the table. What
>do you suggest to begin with?
>
>A: Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell:
>http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/jdini/basic_economics.html
>
>    Q: Are you confident enough to bet your wifes and daughters for
>what you say?
>
>A: No. But I put my reputation in.
>-------
>This post is archived at:
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/mshatredfaq.html
>
> Xah
> xah at xahlee.org
>? http://xahlee.org/



From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Fri Oct 28 12:25:12 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:25:12 -0400
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2659.1130441293.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>	<8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>	<312cfe2b0510270931r52a18d0em29168b9702d2c748@mail.gmail.com>	<20051027174139.GC2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>	<312cfe2b0510271100y32f6163es8a27524ccc37747c@mail.gmail.com>	<1130436984.22172.28.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<mailman.2659.1130441293.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <djtjdd$it4$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Steve Holden wrote:

>> On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 14:00, Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
>>
>>> Not quite because if something(3) fails, I still want something(4) to
>>> run.  
> Then the obvious extension:
> 
> for i in range(20):
>    ...
> 
> but I get the idea that Gregory was thinking of different statements 
> rather than calls to the same function with different arguments.


Sorry for the descendant-reply, but the original hasn't hit my news 
server yet (I think).

It sounds like Gregory wants a Python equivalent of "on error continue 
next," which is really a bad idea almost everywhere.


From brp13 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 20:06:10 2005
From: brp13 at yahoo.com (Tuvas)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 17:06:10 -0700
Subject: Library functions
In-Reply-To: <11klhlmas9nfm40@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1128973241.967119.199440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11klhlmas9nfm40@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1128989170.017791.235100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

How exactly do you do that? Just to get some kind of an idea, perhaps
you could share bits of code? Thanks!



From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Fri Oct  7 11:08:07 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:08:07 -0500
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<43464262.3040406@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <200510071008.09192.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Friday 07 October 2005 08:56, Eric Nieuwland wrote:
> Ever cared to check what committees can do to a language ;-)

*has nasty visions of Java*

Hey! Stop that!

- Michael


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 20:11:43 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 17:11:43 -0800
Subject: OpenSSL in Python
In-Reply-To: <slrndm52ja.e43.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
References: <1130425810.431748.39660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm52ja.e43.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <1130807503.274960.158820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> wouldn't your question then not be more appropriate on the
> OpenSSL newsgroup/mailinglist/forum/whatever?

Well, I think that because python is the language where I want it to
run, I ask it right here.
OpenSSL is written in C, so they wont help me. I need the right
wrappers to that C library.

Thanks.



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 28 15:09:37 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:09:37 -0400
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86slule9vy.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"usgog at yahoo.com" <usgog at yahoo.com> writes:

> Now it works:
> rex = re.compile(r'(^.*username *=[^"]*")([^"]*)(".*$)')
> for line in fileinput.input(FILE, inplace=1):
>      m = rex.match(line)
>      if m is not None:
>          line = "%s%s%s\n" % (m.group(1), new_name, m.group(3))
>      print line
>
> But there is an extra line break after each line in FILE. Why is that?

Because print prints a newline after all the values you pass it.

> I tried to line = "%s%s%s" % (m.group(1), new_name, m.group(3)) but it
> turns out there are two extra line breaks after each line...

It's not clear what you mean by this. I would have expected this
change to solve the problem. Where do you get two extra newlines?

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From david at jotax.com  Sun Oct 30 05:33:09 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 02:33:09 -0800
Subject: dreaming in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130642286.424305.270610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130625997.428653.28080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130642286.424305.270610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130668389.075227.250540@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Sounds like someone may have the kernal of an idea for a book here ;-)



From nikool29 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 20 04:32:46 2005
From: nikool29 at yahoo.com (nikool29 at yahoo.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 01:32:46 -0700
Subject: Check it Out!
Message-ID: <1129797166.444604.24260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Friend,
Check out http://ChezBrandon.com As are you, Brandon is highly
intelligent, knowledgeable, and good. May you have an awesome day.
A Succinct Warning: Elements of Mossad, sated with cash from the
murderous and destructive narcotics trade - for example, according to
Reader's Digest, cocaine alone costs US businesses $50+ billion per
year (!) - are using some medical, pharmacy, and food service workers
to murder men, women, and children. (A certain tasteless acid, for
instance, causes cancer.) Victor Ostrovsky's book By Way of Deception
and James Ennes, Jr.'s Assault on the Liberty offer other elucidation
as does the following Daily News article:
www.dailynews.lk/2005/03/01/fea10.html
President of the International Narcotics Control Board, Philip Emafo,
put it excellently when he stated: "Drug trafficking does not
contribute to economic growth and prosperity [rather it] destabilizes
the state, the economy, and civil society apart from the damage to
long-term economic development." On top of this, elements of Mossad
have decided to become serial-killers/terrorists and murder men, women,
and children.
-- Nick



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Thu Oct 27 18:41:45 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:41:45 +1000
Subject: time conversion
References: <OB58f.33235$b55.1588325@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.27.22.41.44.791588@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:36:30 +0000, flupke wrote:

> Is there an easy to convert following hour notation hh:mm
> to decimals?
> For instance 2 hours and 30 minutes as 2:30 to 2,50
> I don't really know where to search for this kind of conversion.


def str_HMS(s):
    """Convert a string "H:M:S" to a tuple of numbers (H, M, S).
    H and M must be integers, S may be a float.
    """
    L = s.split(":")
    if len(L) < 3:
        raise ValueError("Too few fields in H:M:S string.")
    elif len(L) > 3:
        raise ValueError("Too many fields in H:M:S string.")
    H = int(L[0])
    M = int(L[1])
    S = float(L[2])
    return (H, M, S)

def HMS_Seconds(hours, minutes, seconds):
    """Convert hours minutes seconds to seconds."""
    return hours*60*60 + minutes*60 + seconds

def HMS_Hours(hours, minutes, seconds):
    """Convert hours minutes seconds to hours."""
    return hours + minutes/60.0 + seconds/(60.0**2)

def Hours_HMS(h):
    """Convert time t in hours to hours minutes seconds."""
    hours = int(t)
    t = (t - hours)*60
    minutes = int(t)
    seconds = (t - minutes)*60
    return (hours, minutes, seconds)

def Seconds_HMS(h):
    """Convert time t in seconds to hours minutes seconds."""
    hours, t = divmod(t, 60*60)
    minutes, seconds = divmod(t, 60)
    return (hours, minutes, seconds)



-- 
Steven.



From keramida at ceid.upatras.gr  Sun Oct  9 20:03:22 2005
From: keramida at ceid.upatras.gr (Giorgos Keramidas)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 03:03:22 +0300
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86wtkmfdbp.fsf@flame.pc>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:33:13 GMT, Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com>
> wrote or quoted :
>
>> What the hell has that got to do with HTML email?  Sending photos
>> is an example of what attachments are for.
>
> Normally you send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.
> That is far more convenient for the technopeasant receiver than
> dealing with multiple attachments.

I'd like to agree, but I haven't received *ANY* properly formatted,
captioned and readable list of photos in an HTML email message in a
long while.  What I usually get it an email message with a completely
irrelevant subject -- usually a reply to a random thread that happened
to include my email address in the recipient list -- with a message
body as useless as:

                        Here's a photo collection

or even more useless, or empty.

This and other things, that show the original poster of the particular
HTML email message has _no_ intention to spend just *one* minute to
properly write a readable, useful email message, tend to be the main
reasons why I block all HTML email messages from non-work-related
email addresses, save them in a special folder and look at them only
when I really feel like spending some time to weed through the junk.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 05:37:10 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:37:10 +0200
Subject: "dynamical" importing
References: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<43560961.9070504@plus.net>
Message-ID: <dj5446$sto$1@sea.gmane.org>

John Abel wrote:

> def _importModule( moduleName ):
>     modName = __import__ ( moduleName )
>     modComponents = moduleName.split( '.' )
>     for indivComp in modComponents[ 1: ]:
>         modName = getattr( modName, indivComp )
>
>    return modName

__import__ takes a module name, not an arbitrary file name.

</F> 





From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 02:32:21 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 23:32:21 -0700
Subject: Python 2.4.2 HPUX-PARISC compile issues
References: <1128556649.531973.195000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128580341.202641.82830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

brian.toal at gmail.com wrote:
> When compiling HPUX for PARISC with the following environemnt variables
> I get the following errors.
>
> CFLAGS=+DD64 -fast
> CC=aCC
> LDFLAGS=+DD64
>
> What do I need to do in order to get this to compile?

This info should be in the README file for 2.4.2:

+ 	To build a 64-bit executable on an Itanium 2 system using HP's
+ 	compiler, use these environment variables:
+
+ 		CC=cc
+ 		CXX=aCC
+ 		BASECFLAGS="+DD64"
+ 		LDFLAGS="+DD64 -lxnet"
+
+ 	and call configure as:
+
+ 		./configure --without-gcc

Did you do that?

If so, you will probably have to track this down.  LONG_BIT is supposed
to be there according to POSIX AFAIK.  It would mean the wrong header
file wasn't included (unlikely) or that some #define prevented it from
being defined (more likely).

Good luck,
n



From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Fri Oct 21 14:26:31 2005
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:26:31 GMT
Subject: Shelve: got DBRunRecoveryError
Message-ID: <20051021182902.1981.48811.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>

Hi all, I'm having a problem with a shelve.
I got (almost randomly) this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "xpn.py", line 1082, in view_article
    self.remove_from_unreads(article_to_read)
  File "xpn.py", line 860, in remove_from_unreads
    articles[msgid]=article
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/shelve.py", line 130, in __setitem__
    self.dict[key] = f.getvalue()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/bsddb/__init__.py", line 218, in
__setitem__
    self.db[key] = value
DBRunRecoveryError: (-30978, 'DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database
recovery -- PANIC: Invalid argument')

The error happens whe I try to replace an element inside the shelve with
this function:

    def remove_from_unreads(self,article):
        #remove article from unreads
        msgid=article.msgid
        articles=shelve.open(os.path.join(self.wdir,"groups_info/",self.group_to_thread,self.group_to_thread))
        xpn_article=articles.get(msgid,None)
        if xpn_article!=None:
            article.is_read=True
            articles[msgid]=article
        articles.close()

What could be the problem?

-- 
Never eat more than you can lift.
 
 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Tue Oct 18 00:24:54 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:24:54 GMT
Subject: A Logging System for Python
References: <GJY4f.1929$dO2.1684@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<mailman.2199.1129603050.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qO_4f.1950$dO2.498@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

Even better !

Thanks,

Philippe


Robert Kern wrote:

> Philippe C. Martin wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I have been looking for a logging system and have come across
>> http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html.
>> 
>> As the site refers to PEP 282, I assume this package is a potential
>> contender for integration in the Python distribution.
>> 
>> Am I correct and if so is there any trend to include it in Python 2.5 ?
> 
> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-logging.html
> 



From jparlar at cogeco.ca  Tue Oct 25 21:33:54 2005
From: jparlar at cogeco.ca (Jay Parlar)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:33:54 -0700
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7345.1130278203.508.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.7345.1130278203.508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e02b10f09c0c1af2e4fd844b39a7ee5f@cogeco.ca>


On Oct 25, 2005, at 3:10 PM, David wrote:

>
> It looks like I am going to have to bite the bullet and use properties.
> The following should do what I want.
>
> class test:
>
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__HB = 0
>         self.__VPG = 0
> ...

FYI, for property to work, your class has to be newstyle, ie. 
inheriting from object:

class test(object):
   ... stuff...

The thing is, if you use property() with an old style class, no error 
will be raised, so you have to be careful.

Jay P.



From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 01:20:44 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 22:20:44 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129180844.893983.290460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Alternatively, does anyone have experience
> of using the visual studio files in the PCBuild
> directory under amd64?

I don't have an answer for you, but just to clarity for future
readers... based on the quote above, I assume you mean a native 64-bit
build for Windows, right?  You never stated what platform you need this
for, I for one use a 64-bit build of Python on Linux just fine... but
yes, Windows is another story, especially if you want it built with the
super-mega-pro VS with optimizations and all that jazz they use for
official 32-bit Windows binaries.



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 12:31:30 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:31:30 -0400
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510270931r52a18d0em29168b9702d2c748@mail.gmail.com>

That's interesting, Simon. However, my goal really was to do:

try:something(1);except:pass
try:something(2);except:pass
try:something(3);except:pass
...
for about 20 lines.

I figured this would be more readable because if I reader sees 20 lines of
nearly identical text he'll understand that it's some kind of boilerplate
type code, where-as if he sees tabbed stuff he may think there's meaning in
the code which there isn't. (not sure if that makes sense). However since it
doesn't seem possible, I'll just give up on my readability preference for
this block of code and use tabs.

And I don't want to edit the function so it's not an option to put the try
in there.

-Greg





On 10/27/05, Simon Brunning <simon.brunning at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 27/10/05, Gregory Pi?ero <gregpinero at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So much for writing my whole program on one line :-(
>
> http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/pyone/
>
> But you didn't hear it from me, OK? ;-)
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Simon B,
> simon at brunningonline.net,
> http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 19:17:22 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 16:17:22 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <86psqhnrx4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
	<mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128698792.787399.160460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86psqhnrx4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128727042.273430.64640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Mike.  Would there be an idiom using "is"?
somethng like

    glob.glob('2005*) is not Empty

I have not figured out what to put on the right hand
side of "is"

I guess, for readability, nothing has come up that
seems _great_.  One last effort would be to hide
the code behind a method, and use something
readable to name the method.

Thanks also for the link to amaya.  The compile is 
running now :)



From klemens_letule at gmx.de  Tue Oct 25 08:30:51 2005
From: klemens_letule at gmx.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22klemens_letul=E9=22?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:30:51 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: swig problem
Message-ID: <15034.1130243451@www48.gmx.net>

Aloa,

I'm new to python as to swig... so my question goes here. I am using swig to
call a c function which returns a char*.

I do this:

...
i = 1
while i <= 2:
    result, chainName = cgiServer.rpcGetTempParameterAttribut  
                       ("//firewall-input[" + str(i) + "]")
    print chainName
    i = i + 1
...

output is:
gprs-in
eth0-in  
    ~~~

and should be:
gprs-in
eth0

.i file:
...
%cstring_bounded_output(char *result, 1024);

int rpcGetTempParameterAttribut(char *xpathUri, char *result);
...

I tried some approaches to write typemaps but failed. Could someone point me
in the right direction, so that i get two different instances for the
variable in the loop. I am sure this simple problem occured earlier, but I
could't find it in the archives!

Thanks a lot and greets, Klemens


-- 


Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko!
Satte Provisionen f?r GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 12:03:36 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:03:36 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:

> Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  

You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?

In 1988, there were something like ten or a dozen word processors
available to choose from, and they were competing on price and features
like crazy. That was then, now there is just MS Office. The most
innovative things Microsoft has added to Office in the last decade? Clippy
the paperclip. An XML wrapper to their binary file format. And the
incredible disappearing and reappearing menus.

You don't care that the cost of OS and office software has risen, rather
than fallen, because of the monopoly power of Microsoft?

You don't care that because of Microsoft's neglect, there are millions of
zombie PCs running their sub-standard OS across the world, sending
hundreds of millions of spam emails? I can tell you, even if you are lucky
enough to not be receiving spams, you are still paying for it in higher
ISP costs, because *they* certainly are receiving those spams and trying
to block them.

It must be nice to be so free of cares...


> Maybe they were trying to protect themselves against all the market 
> momentum they'd created around 0S/2.  They'd been big fans of it 
> right up until Windows 3.0 took off.

That would be a good guess, except that Microsoft's predatory and illegal
behaviour began long before OS/2 was even planned. It began in the mid
1970s, with MS DOS.



-- 
Steven.



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Oct 31 10:40:52 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 07:40:52 -0800
Subject: handling ExpatError exception raised from ElementTree.XML() method
References: <1130386520.772048.117530@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130425257.683957.130440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130472119.971533.201190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130773252.916584.125730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

mirandacasc... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> It's not clear how a grep of the site-packages directory revealed the
> most likely location of the ExpatError class is xml.parsers.expat.

Here's what I did:

grep -e ExpatError -r /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/

What is interesting is that most of the "hits" belonged to packages
which you may not have on your system: pyxdg and smartpm, for example,
which mention the ExpatError class. I did get the following message,
though:

Binary file
/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/_xmlplus/parsers/pyexpat.so matches

> ...it located the file Mr. Boddie mentioned...\lib\xml\parsers\expat.py.  That file has
> only a few lines of code...it appears to import all the objects from what I'm guessing
> is the pyexpat extension module.  I'm guessing that ExpatError is
> embedded within that extension module...is that a correct guess?

I believe so.

Paul



From wookie at aces.localdomain  Thu Oct 27 06:43:08 2005
From: wookie at aces.localdomain (Harold Stevens)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:43:08 -0000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm1bpq.lk2.wyrd@aces.localdomain>

In <7xbr1b74rf.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com> Paul Rubin:

[Snip...]

> The trial court determined and two different appeals courts upheld
> that MS had an illegal monopoly.

And M$ is still intransigent about that LEGAL FACT, much to the dismay
of the federal judge overseeing the latest (toothless) consent decree:

   In a rare display of indignation, U.S. District Judge Colleen
   Kollar-Kotelly demanded an explanation from Microsoft's lawyers and
   told them, "This should not be happening."

   Legal and industry experts said Microsoft's demands probably would
   have violated a landmark antitrust settlement the same judge approved
   in 2002 between the company and the Bush administration. The
   government and Microsoft disclosed details of the dispute in a court
   document last week.

More at:

     http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051026/microsoft_antitrust.html?.v=3

Just to really get her riled, the M$ snakes pulled another stunt:

   "This needs to get done," U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly
   said of a project designed to help put potential rivals on a more
   equal competitive footing with Microsoft.

   "If there's an issue of resources, then put them in," said
   Kollar-Kotelly, who endorsed the settlement with the U.S. government
   and state attorneys general in November 2002.

More at (line wrapped):

 http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh193
85_2005-10-26_23-14-09_n26509630_newsml

Any M$ apologists saying M$ isn't an illegal monopoly are just as much
a part of that pack of liars and thieves as M$ itself.

They need to discuss it with Judge Colleen, and STignorantFU about it.

-- 
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.


From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Oct 28 07:21:07 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:21:07 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <436209A3.50309@ghaering.de>

pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com wrote:
> I want to scan a file byte for byte [...]
> while True:
>     ch = inputFile.read(1)
> [...] But it is very slow. What is the fastest way to do this? Using some
> native call? Using a buffer? Using whatever?

Read in blocks, not byte for byte. I had good experiences with block 
sizes like 4096 or 8192.

-- Gerhard



From email at christoph-haas.de  Fri Oct 14 18:28:32 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:28:32 +0200
Subject: Best way to handle cgi sessions
In-Reply-To: <17fc20160510141222g65b11873y28ca495874a64156@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17fc20160510141222g65b11873y28ca495874a64156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200510150028.32610.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Friday 14 October 2005 21:22, Derek Perriero wrote:
> What would be the best way to create a cgi session that contains the
> basic elements of a cookie and can also hold secure data, such as a
> username/password. [...]

Said. Done. I just tidied up a module we will be using for a web site
here. It uses the promised session-cookie handling (with a lot of security
checks) and a MySQL database backend. I tried to document as well as 
possible
so I hope it will even help you if you use it or not. To try it out just
grab the two files from http://workaround.org/pysessions/ and copy them 
into a
cgi-bin/ directory. Create a database and the two tables following the
scheme described on top of the MySessions.py module. Then access the
/cgi-bin/mypage CGI. Hope to have helped.

Everyone:
This is my first "bigger" Python script. I would really like to hear 
comments
on it. If it's deemed to be decent I could use some help making it a 
package
that can be used by others as well. There is probably a bit of perlishness
that I'd like to get rid of to make it look more snake-like.

Regards
 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 14:55:15 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:55:15 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
References: <mailman.2602.1130336694.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlvk4f.97u.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Tim Golden enlightened us with:
> Well, fair enough. Although I don't think that on its own this
> constitutes "rubbish".

True - it's just one of the reasons that shift its status toward
rubishness ;-)

> Not quite sure what this means. As in ANSI support? (Perfectly true
> - definitely lacking there). Or something else?

ANSI, or even better VT220 or xterm support.

> Well, peculiarly, you can do this (as you're probably aware) from
> the Properties menu and it'll work immediately

Didn't know it would work immediately. Still awkward that you have to
type numbers just to resize a window.

> albeit without advising the running programs that it's resized, so
> only new lines will take advantage of the new width. Now, why they
> didn't let you do the same thing by grabbing the border and pulling,
> I don't know!

My point exactly! Especially since they do allow you to vertically
resize it that way.

> Ummm. Not quite true, at least not on my XP machine

Hmmm... maybe the 'cd' example was a bad one. Other commands don't
have smart completion. You can't complete "ipconfig /rel" to "ipconfig
/release" for instance.

> I'm sure you're right: given moderately naive users, a Windows box
> is *extremely* likely to be zombified. It's just that it doesn't
> have to be that way with the proper care and attention.

Which is another reason why I don't like Windows and do like Linux:
the latter will be fine with just some security updates every now and
then. Windows needs spyware sweepers, virus scanners and firewalls.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct  7 09:50:36 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:50:36 -0400
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1128687060.102240.56040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.07.13.11.56.48209@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1128693379.4d4be05e0f7e85fdf5d9673ca4e6249a@teranews>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> I've just found this:
>
> [quote]
> A mixin class is a parent class that is inherited from - but not as
> a means of specialization. Typically, the mixin will export services to a
> child class, but no semantics will be implied about the child "being a
> kind of" the parent.
> [end quote]
>
> from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MixIn
>
> Is that all they are?
>
> It is amazing how you can take the simplest concept, and by using
> appropriate terminology, make it as confusing and opaque as you want...
>
> *wink*

 Now this reminds me of Xah's entertaining posts about "moronicities of the tech-geek industry
jargon" <wink>.

George




From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Mon Oct 10 04:40:27 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:40:27 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

In article <7xr7au1hr5.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:

> I would say give the app the heaviest stress testing that you can
> before deploying it, checking carefully for leaks and crashes.  I'd
> say that regardless of the implementation language.

Goes without saying. But I would like to be confident (or as
confident as possible) that all bugs are mine. If I use plain
C, I think this is the case. Of course, bad memory management
in the underlying platform will wreak havoc. I am planning to
use Linux 2.4.somethingnew as the OS kernel, and there I have
not experienced too many problems before.

Adding the Python interpreter adds one layer on uncertainty.
On the other hand, I am after the simplicity of programming
offered by Python.

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From lrahuel.notgood at voila.fr  Wed Oct 19 04:40:41 2005
From: lrahuel.notgood at voila.fr (Laurent Rahuel)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:40:41 +0200
Subject: "dynamical" importing
References: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43560681$0$991$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I guess you need to look at __import__

Regards,

Laurent.

Joerg Schuster wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I need to import modules from user defined paths. I.e. I want to do
> something
> like:
> 
> module_dir = sys.argv[1]
> 
> my_path = os.path.join(module_dir, 'bin', 'my_module')
> 
> from my_path import my_object
> 
> Obviously, it doesn't work this way. How would it work?
> 
> J?rg Schuster



From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Mon Oct 10 07:21:26 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:21:26 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

In article <7xwtkl21hn.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:

> You might be better off with a 2.6 series kernel.  If you use Python
> conservatively (be careful with the most advanced features, and don't
> stress anything too hard) you should be ok.  Python works pretty well
> if you use it the way the implementers expected you to.  Its
> shortcomings are when you try to press it to its limits.

Just one thing: how reliable is the garbage collecting system?
Should I try to either not produce any garbage or try to clean
up manually?

> You do want reliable hardware with ECC and all that, maybe with multiple
> servers and automatic failover.  This site might be of interest:

Well... Here the uptime benefit from using several servers is
not eceonomically justifiable. I am right now at the phase of
trying to minimize the downtime with given hardware resources.
This is not flying; downtime does not kill anyone. I just want
to avoid choosing tools which belong more to the problem than
to the solution set.

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Tue Oct 25 09:29:44 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:29:44 GMT
Subject: pyxpcom and firefox
Message-ID: <crq7f.7536$Zv5.88@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>

Hi,

I write this post here because I do not manage to get in touch with mozilla
dev people:
*******
[EVAL-IN]       irc.mozilla.org
[ERROR] ReferenceError: irc is not defined
*******

I have two questions:
1) has anyone compiled/installed pyxpcom with firefox 1.5xx ?
2) is there a plan to make it a .xpi (the pyxpcom xpi for mozilla does not
install into firefox).

Regards,

Philippe





From michael+USENET at www.heiming.de  Sat Oct 15 03:08:33 2005
From: michael+USENET at www.heiming.de (Michael Heiming)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:08:33 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>

In comp.os.linux.misc Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es>:
> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
>> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
>> mainframe terminals.

> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
> at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
> running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.

> And a mean game of tetris it played too. Chess wasn't worth the
> humiliation at level 5.

> I believe every researcher in britain got one as a matter of course, but
> they only replaced the perq machines that everyone had had to put up
> with before then.  The vaxen running hpux or so were plentiful too, and
> had fine monitors, tending more to the PC shape.  We'd made our own word
> processor machines and spreadsheet automatons before that.  It didn't
> take that many components, just a good engineer and a room full of
> lackeys with soddering irons.  The BBC were selling kits too (what were
> they?  Ataris?), not that I ever fell for that.

Yep, Atari 400/800, Atari ST/etc, Commodore VC20/C64, there were
quite some systems much more stable/powerful then anything M$ had
to offer.

> Maybe five years earlier I'd designed and built my own computer from
> scratch using the MC 6802 chip as processor.  Somebody really should
> have told me about assembler - I wrote in machine code, flashing the
> code into prom with a 100ms pulse from a 16V battery.  Goodness knows
> how much memory I had ...  maybe a few KB.

> I think the Suns were abut $30000 each when they first appeared, but
> prices dropped rapidly so that  after maybe three years the standard
> price was about $8000. PCs had appeared and came in at about $4000, if I
> recall right, so there was a price differential but it wasn't huge,
> especially when a Sun could support a whole research team via vt100
> lines, and a PC was a one-person job, thanks to the o/s.

The only thing positive about M$ entering the market, probably
due to their ineffective programming style they pushed Intel into
producing pretty fast while cheapo CPUs. Ironically exactly this
is the key to Linux/*BSD success in the unix server market. ;)

-- 
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry at urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 387: Your computer's union contract is set to
expire at midnight.


From YH.Rhiu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 02:47:00 2005
From: YH.Rhiu at gmail.com (Young H. Rhiu)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 23:47:00 -0700
Subject: How do you draw this layout with wxpython?
Message-ID: <1129531620.723991.53140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

See: http://hilug.org/img/app_layout.GIF

I'm implementing an album-like application with wxpython but I'm new to
wxPython though I know how to program with python. The problem is that
it's not easy for me to deal with drawing layout stuff with wxpython.
What layout I'm thinking of looks like the gif image above.

The application is about saving some comments for each pictures on the
filesystem. There are two windows. The above one is a window for
loading some images and the below one is a TextCtrl for writing
comments and if img1, for instance, is clicked, the first notebook(?)
folder should be active.

Below is the program I tried but I don't know how to attach a notebook
window under the image window.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance, Rhiu

My Code:
from wxPython.wx import *

class smallAppFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent = None, id = -1,
                         title = "MySmallApp", pos = wxPoint(200, 200),
                         size = wxSize(460, 200), style =
wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE)

        self.bitmap01 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
        self.bitmap02 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
        self.bitmap03 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
        self.bitmap04 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))

        box = wxBoxSizer(wxHORIZONTAL)

        box.Add((10,10))
        box.Add(self.bitmap01, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
        box.Add((10,10))
        box.Add(self.bitmap02, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
        box.Add((10,10))
        box.Add(self.bitmap03, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
        box.Add((10,10))
        box.Add(self.bitmap04, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
        box.Add((10,10))

        self.SetAutoLayout(True)
        self.SetSizer(box)

class MySmallApp(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = smallAppFrame(None, -1, "MySmallApp")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true

app = MySmallApp(0)
app.MainLoop()



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Thu Oct 27 08:30:31 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:30:31 +1000
Subject: loop help
References: <jgt0m1hdjk1bc7q0ose5pjn8slbq1hmr95@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.27.12.30.30.769938@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:00:34 +0000, Gorlon the Impossible wrote:

> Hello. I am using Python 2.3.5 with IDLE 1.0.5 on a Windows98 PC.
> I have some programming experience but mostly I am still learning.
> I am having some trouble understanding the behaviour of a piece of
> code I have written. It plots points using PIL.
> Here is my loop:
> 
> triangle = [(320,27),(172,323),(468,323)]
> currentpoint = (randint(0,640),randint(0,350))
> t = 0
> while t < 10:

Let me guess... you're a C programmer, right?

This is bad practice. The preferred idiom is to do something like
this:

for t in range(10):
    # loop

Why manage your own loop variable, inefficiently duplicating code that
already exists in Python?

>     ct = choice(triangle)
>     mp = (currentpoint[0] + ct[0])/2, (currentpoint[1] + ct[1])/2
>     draw.point(mp,(0,0,0))
>     currentpoint = mp
>     t = t + 1
> 
> This works fine. But, if I try to divide by a floating point number in
> the calculation of mp, instead of mp being overwritten each time thru
> the loop, it starts accumulating, leading to overflow errors for large
> values of t.
> Why is this?

Please explain your problem first. In particular, show us the code that
you use that "it (what?) starts accumulating".



-- 
Steven.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 19:08:44 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:08:44 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<m3ll0h8u2t.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djluqm$gkg$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.23.08.43.351@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:51:02 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

> 
> "Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
> news:pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> 
>> The first two points are factually wrong, and the third is an opinion
>> based on the concept, as far as I can see, that Microsoft should be
>> allowed to do anything they like, even if those actions harm others.
> 
>     Of course this alleged "harm" is simply a lack of a benefit.
> 
>     Why is Burger King allowed to close at 10PM? That harms me when I'm 
> hungry after 10.

Burger King doesn't take actions to prevent you from going to another
vendor who will stay open after 10PM, as you very well know.

Nor is Burger King a monopoly -- if they refuse to open after 10 in the
face of great demand, they only harm themselves. As I said a few days ago,
it is not the place for either us or the government to care about the
success or failure of any specific vendor, but only about the health of
the entire market. As there is no shortage of competition in the fast food
market, the harm done to you by Burger King's refusal to open after 10PM
is not sufficient for anyone to care. If there is significant demand, then
Burger King will merely harm themselves by refusing to open because they
will lose customers to those vendors who do open, and if there is
insignificant demand, then why should anyone care?



-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:37:28 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:37:28 +0200
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com><1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4ybsu.150mxs1imt43pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <djkqsb$1rb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> No, LC goes back a long way -- I think it was in 2.0 already, 2.1 for
> sure.

$ python1.5 -c "print [x for x in 'abc']"
  File "<string>", line 1
    print [x for x in 'abc']
               ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
$ python2.0 -c "print [x for x in 'abc']"
['a', 'b', 'c']

I was a bit surprised to find that 2.0 had variables, though:

$ python2.0 -c "[x for x in y]"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
NameError: There is no variable named 'y'
$ python2.1 -c "[x for x in y]"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'y' is not defined

;-)

</F> 





From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Thu Oct  6 16:43:34 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:43:34 -0600
Subject: interactive window vs. script:  inconsistent behavior
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F1A@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

The following works in the interactive window of PythonWin, but fails in
a script.  TypeError: Objects of type 'slice' can not be converted to a
COM VARIANT

I just need to parse out these dates, but it's making me crazy.
Shouldn't it work in both the interactive window and a script?  


>>> d = "5-18-05 to 5-31-05"
>>> print d[0:d.find("to")-1]
5-18-05
>>> print d[d.find("to")+3:]
5-31-05
>>>




Kev




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 24 16:12:18 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:12:18 -0400
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <LaWdnS_4PIO-3cDeRVn-oA@powergate.ca>

beza1e1 wrote:
> well, list comprehension is Python 2.4 and 2.3 is the standard in many
> OSes, so it is possibly not the most portable solution

You're probably remembering "generator expressions", which were added in 
Python 2.4 and aren't available in earlier versions.  They fit in a 
similar place in one's mind, anyway....

-Peter


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct  8 15:04:32 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 21:04:32 +0200
Subject: Weighted "random" selection from list of lists
References: <mailman.1766.1128790108.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di9578$gtr$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Jesse Noller wrote:

> I'm probably missing something here, but I have a problem where I am
> populating a list of lists like this:
> 
> list1 = [ 'a', 'b', 'c' ]
> list2 = [ 'dog', 'cat', 'panda' ]
> list3 = [ 'blue', 'red', 'green' ]
> 
> main_list = [ list1, list2, list3 ]
> 
> Once main_list is populated, I want to build a sequence from items
> within the lists, "randomly" with a defined percentage of the sequence
> coming for the various lists. For example, if I want a 6 item
> sequence, I might want:
> 
> 60% from list 1 (main_list[0])
> 30% from list 2 (main_list[1])
> 10% from list 3 (main_list[2])
> 
> I know how to pull a random sequence (using random()) from the lists,
> but I'm not sure how to pick it with the desired percentages.


If the percentages can be normalized to small integral numbers, just make a
pool where each list is repeated according to its weight, e. g.
list1 occurs 6, list2 3 times, and list3 once:

pools = [list1, list2, list3]
weights = [6, 3, 1]
sample_size = 10

weighted_pools = []
for p, w in zip(pools, weights):
    weighted_pools.extend([p]*w)

sample = [random.choice(random.choice(weighted_pools))
    for _ in xrange(sample_size)]


Another option is to use bisect() to choose a pool:

pools = [list1, list2, list3]
sample_size = 10

def isum(items, sigma=0.0):
    for item in items:
        sigma += item
        yield sigma

cumulated_weights = list(isum([60, 30, 10], 0))
sigma = cumulated_weights[-1]

sample = []
for _ in xrange(sample_size):
    pool = pools[bisect.bisect(cumulated_weights, random.random()*sigma)]
    sample.append(random.choice(pool))

(all code untested)

Peter


From gene.tani at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 11:00:40 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 08:00:40 -0700
Subject: Perl's documentation come of age
In-Reply-To: <6dqkk1157t6gsnvnckmlbeq6tgui5f0nmv@4ax.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1125179974.483320.116780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127299284.748225.68560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1582.1128570740.509.python-list@python.org>
	<6dqkk1157t6gsnvnckmlbeq6tgui5f0nmv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1128956440.439743.135490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

request for Google groups enhancement:

Report Abuse button should have 4 choices:
- Spam
- Illegal Content
- Xah
- other
;-}

Christos Georgiou wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:36:47 -0600, rumours say that Mahesh Padmanabhan
> <sutram at gmail.com> might have written:
>
> >In article <1127299284.748225.68560 at g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:
> >
> ><snip lot of drivel>
>
> >While I don't like to feed the trolls, I do find his posts amusing. He
> >is like a spoilt child seeking attention.
>
> s/is like/is/
> --
> TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best.
> "Dear Paul,
> please stop spamming us."
> The Corinthians



From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 29 14:45:27 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:45:27 GMT
Subject: Hi All - Newby 
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
	<435deb2c$0$652$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <435ebf0a@news1.veridas.net>
	<5nr0m1l6b8jllon8pmhhv9a94h3ke4ib7o@4ax.com>
	<4360ab19$1@news1.veridas.net>
Message-ID: <kbg7m1lcl336bs4d2d89rsu65q28df5cbn@4ax.com>

"Ask" <pu at pmville.com> wrote:
>
>Hi TIm,
>
>Ahh I see.. (Told you I was a newby!)  ;-)
>
>Tkinter is what I'm using as that was loaded by default with the 
>installation of Python I am using.

Now your question makes good sense, especially if you were coming from
something like the Win32 API.

In Tkinter, as in MOST of the GUI toolkits for Python, you dont just place
a widget at a specific X,Y with a specific width and height.  The problems
with that kind of approach are well known; such layouts don't scale with
different fonts, they look bad when the owning window is stretched, they
don't compensate for screen sizes, etc.

The various toolkits have different methods for managing this.  In Tk, the
concept is called a "geometry manager".  You use a geometry manager to
define the RELATIONSHIP between widgets, and between the widgets and the
owning window.  The geometry manager, then, worries about the exact
placement and size.

Googling for "tkinter geometry manager" should prove fruitful.  Here is an
excellent introduction:

http://effbot.org/zone/tkinter-geometry.htm

There is a fabulous book called "Python and Tkinter Programming" by John
Grayson, ISBN 1884777813.  If you will be getting serious with Tkinter, I
strongly recommend it.

Personally, I started with Tkinter, but I couldn't wrap my brain around the
details.  I switched to wxPython, and never looked back.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:21:26 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:21:26 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <b4v4l1hu7v0cirvhii19inrbbf94reofhk@4ax.com>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:30:41 GMT, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote
or quoted :

>
>>Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
>>than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
>>mainframe terminals.
>
>Utter hogwash.  Computer hardware would still have followed the path it
>did.  I suspect we'd all be using WordPerfect or AbiWord on some kind of
>Unix clone, and I also suspect application integration wouldn't be as
>commonplace as it now is, but it's silly to credit Microsoft with the
>ubiquity of powerful computers.

Granted MS did figure out all kinds of ways to waste RAM and CPU power
thus forcing people to upgrade to more powerful computers.  What might
have happened with someone else leading the charge it we would be
using less powerful computers but getting more spritely response.

That is like saying you credit SUV owners for any advances in
alternative energy because they helped burn up the oil faster.

MS has held BACK computer evolution by tying their OS so heavily to
the Pentium architecture. The chip architecture has nowhere near
enough registers.  MS refused to believe the Internet was more than a
passing fad. They are still frantically patching security holes in
their OS over a decade  later.


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From http  Wed Oct  5 05:38:45 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 02:38:45 -0700
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xll18gxhx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndk76m6.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <7xoe642ti2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> My tree class is almost finished, but one unittest still fails,
> is this a failing of my class (as a replacement for a dictionary)
> or is this a non-required characteristic of dictionaries?

If it were me, I'd treat the language reference manual as
authoritative.  YMMV.


From martin.kuner at thomson.net  Thu Oct 20 12:04:28 2005
From: martin.kuner at thomson.net (mku)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:04:28 -0700
Subject: How to retrieve the filename of a module
Message-ID: <1129824268.735371.230910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

there?s a function inside a module. How can these function retrieve
the path+name   of his module ? (The path is most important).
That should also work if the module is part of a package.

Thanks in advance

Martin



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 15 02:44:04 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:44:04 +0200
Subject: MD5 module Pythonicity
References: <6815022a0510142223q3b6ae449ja0483f2f25ebb263@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <diq8fl$f0r$1@sea.gmane.org>

Leandro Lameiro wrote:

> What's wrong in having a function like the one I said, that would
> split files for you, feed md5.update and, when it is over, return the
> digest?

Calculating the digest sum for a file on disk, without doing anything else
with that file, is a very small subset of everything you may want to use
digests for.  Forcing every digest module to add code to cater for just
one of many use cases is most likely a waste of time.

> "Although practicality beats purity."
> "Readability counts."
> "Beautiful is better than ugly."
>
> Have I got the wrong "Pythonic" definition?

You're confusing the kitchensink approach with the modular approach.
Bloated API:s are not practical, readable, nor beautiful.  Small flexible
components that can be easily combined are.

</F>





From usenetmail at klaas.ca  Sun Oct 16 05:28:20 2005
From: usenetmail at klaas.ca (Klaas)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 02:28:20 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <usenetmail-FF3C2C.02281916102005@host170.octanews.net>

In article <1129438147.182266.196790 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 themightydoyle at gmail.com wrote:

> Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
> a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
> timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.
> 
> Thanx for all the input.

How about a threading.Event?

-Mike


From smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com  Wed Oct 12 02:15:40 2005
From: smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:15:40 -0400
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1873.1128997559.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87irw3l0qb.fsf@bigfoot.com>

>>>>> "Sebastian" == Sebastian Bassi <sbassi at gmail.com> writes:

    Sebastian> On 9/30/05, Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
    >> after Guido's pronouncement yesterday, in one of the next
    >> versions of Python there will be a conditional expression with
    >> the following syntax: X if C else Y

    Sebastian> I don't understand why there is a new expression, if
    Sebastian> this could be accomplished with:

    Sebastian> if C: X else: Y

    Sebastian> What is the advantage with the new expression?

One very frequent use case is building a string.
Instead of:

if X==0:
   filler="yes"
else:
   filler="no"
return "the answer is %s" % filler


What I really want to do is take four lines of conditional, and put
them into one, as well as blow off dealing with a 'filler' variable:

return "the answer is " + "yes" if X==0 else "no"


Or whatever the final release syntax is.
Conditional expressions are a nice way to shim something in place, on
an acute basis.  Chronic use of them could lead to a full-on plate of
spaghetti, where you really wanted code.
They can be impenitrable.  Whenever I'm dealing with them in C/C++, I
always line the ?, the :, and the ; characters vertically, which may
seem a bit excessive in terms of whitespace, but provides a nice
hieroglyph over on the right side of the screen, to make things
obvious.
Best,
Chris


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 20:53:06 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:53:06 GMT
Subject: [OT] Re: output from external commands
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org> <djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510241904.52917.bulliver@badcomputer.org>
	<mailman.2549.1130252654.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435ed2b7.965167717@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:10:39 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>On Monday 24 October 2005 09:04 pm, darren kirby wrote:
>> quoth the Fredrik Lundh:
>> > (using either on the output from glob.glob is just plain silly, of course)
>> 
>> Silly? Sure. os.listdir() is more on point. Never said I was the smartest. 
>> However, I will defend my post by pointing out that at the time it was the 
>> only one that actually included code that did what the OP wanted.
>
>I think Mr. Lundh's point was only that the output from glob.glob is already
>guaranteed to be strings, so using either '%s'%f or str(f) is superfluous.
>
And so is a listcomp that only reproduces the list returned by glob.glob
-- especially by iterating through that same returned list ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 13:16:05 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:16:05 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<11lsopl4qpg9gc2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.17.16.04.89184@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:54:13 +0000, John Wingate wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote:
>> That would be a good guess, except that Microsoft's predatory and illegal
>> behaviour began long before OS/2 was even planned. It began in the mid
>> 1970s, with MS DOS.
> 
> Nitpick: MS-DOS first appeared in 1981.

[slaps head]

Of course it did.


-- 
Steven.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 19 00:34:28 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:34:28 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:30:42 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>
>    No, taken stupidly. Hint: would or would not MS executives disobeying 
>the law constitute a betrayal of their obligation to their shareholders?

You stated it literally as if making maximum profit for the
shareholders were the only consideration in determining conduct.

If that is not what you mean, I think you need to hedge more.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 26 19:18:29 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:18:29 -0400
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <1130313997.136536.299570@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130313997.136536.299570@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <PKSdnaHh3tRRk_3eRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Joerg Schuster wrote:
> So what?

Search in http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html for "99" and read 
the following sentence carefully.

-Peter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 10 18:47:02 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:47:02 -0500
Subject: Python name lookups
In-Reply-To: <20051010220230.98030.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051010220230.98030.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051010224702.GB31497@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 03:02:30PM -0700, Dave wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> As far as I understand, Python deals with a lot of
> string objects, i.e. it looks up all names. Is there a
> way to find out how many name lookup operations take
> place in a Python program? Is it the name lookup
> operation or hash operation that degrades performance?
> What function does Python use for name lookup
> operations? Is it the lookdict function in
> Objects/dictobject.c?

lookdict_string is used for most lookups of the form
	obj.attr
because they are never found to have non-string keys
entered or searched.

Furthermore, most of these string keys are "interned",
which I believe makes the check
        if (ep->me_key == NULL || ep->me_key == key)
                return ep;
return a result without comparing the contents of the strings.

Using gdb, I tried to get a rough estimate of how often pystone calls
_PyString_Eq while running a benchmark program, compared to how many
times it calls lookdict_string.  Here's a simplified gdb session:
	$ gdb ./python
	(gdb) break _PyString_Eq
	(gdb) ignore 1 1000000000
	(gdb) break lookdict_string
	(gdb) ignore 2 1000000000
	(gdb) r Lib/test/pystone.py 200
	Pystone(1.1) time for 200 passes = 0.13
	This machine benchmarks at 1538.46 pystones/second
(the low score is because of the overhead of gdb breaking on those functions)
	(gdb) info b
	Num Type           Disp Enb Address    What
	1   breakpoint     keep y   0x0807e126 in _PyString_Eq
		breakpoint already hit 4040 times
	2   breakpoint     keep y   0x0807573c in lookdict_string
		breakpoint already hit 57254 times
So there seem to be less than .1 string comparisons per name lookup.

In fact, for 200 or for 50000 passes, there are still just 4040 calls to
_PyString_Eq, which would give .003 string comparisons per name lookup,
assuming the numbers for lookdict_string scale with the number of passes.

Jeff
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 04:31:27 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:31:27 +0200
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
References: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4ocwa.184dksqmnv1q1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

S?b <scapt at unil.ch> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm relatively new to python and I want to write a piece of code who do
> the following work for data mining purpose :

Essentially, if I understand correctly, you want to detect LOOPS given a
sequence of directed connections A->B.  "loop detection" and "graph"
would then be the keywords to search for, in this case.

> 2) I want to find if there are unknown sequences of connexions in my
> data and if these sequences are repeated along the file :
> 
> For example :
> 
> Computer A connects to Computer B then
> Computer B connects to Computer C then
> Computer C connects to Computer A

Does this "then" imply you're only interested in loops occurring in this
*sequence*, i.e., is order of connections important?  If the sequence of
directed connections was, say, in the different order:

B->C
A->B
C->A

would you want this detected as a loop, or not?


Alex


From jelleferinga at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 12:35:15 2005
From: jelleferinga at gmail.com (jelle)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:35:15 -0700
Subject: Modules and Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <FuWdnZ5uIP6BWcreRVn-hg@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.2314.1129822356.509.python-list@python.org>
	<FuWdnZ5uIP6BWcreRVn-hg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1129826115.460380.78210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Dear Steve & Larry,

Both your methods worked flawless, thanks to both of you!
I have to say Larry's way wins on style points, doens't it?
What an awefull thing to get stuck on something that simple, what a
gorgeous solution, thanks so much!

-Jelle



From bockman at virgilio.it  Mon Oct 31 10:58:48 2005
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:58:48 +0100
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
References: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130768592.010756.97890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.31.15.58.47.813776@virgilio.it>

Il Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:23:12 -0800, dakman at gmail.com ha scritto:

> And yet the stupidity continues, right after I post this I finnally
> find an answer in a google search, It appears the way I seen it is to
> create a class for each button and have it call the method within that.
> If anyone else has any other ideas please tell.

This is  how I do it: Supposing I have three buttons b1, b2 and b3, and I
want for each button to call the same callback with, as argument, the
button itself:


def common_callback(button):
	# callback code here


class CallIt(objetc):
	def __init__(function, *args ):
		self.function, self.args = function, args
	def __call__(self, *ignore):
		self.function(button, *self.args)

b1['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b1)
b2['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b2)
b3['command']= CallIt(common_callback, b3)

This way you need only one class (a sort of custom callable) and
its instances gets called by Tkinter and in turn calls your
callback with the proper arguments.

Ciao
-----
FB







From albalmer at att.net  Tue Oct  4 14:07:36 2005
From: albalmer at att.net (Alan Balmer)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:07:36 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <91h5k1lt7qf83ce823fhs7ph9to3a4gput@4ax.com>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted :
>
>>I think e-mail should be text only. 
>
>I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
>HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.
>
>But HTML is not the problem!
>
>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>  
>HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
>colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.

None of which I want in email. If you're writing a book, write a book,
and either provide a link or attachment.
>
>I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
>only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.
>
>Program listings are much more readable on my website.

My copy of javac seems to prefer plain text, and so do I ;-)
-- 
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis at att.net


From devlai at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 01:21:15 2005
From: devlai at gmail.com (Devan L)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 22:21:15 -0700
Subject: Importing at runtime
In-Reply-To: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130217675.420469.155930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/built-in-funcs.html

or, if you want an answer in code now and don't want to read the docs

def my_import(name):
    module = __import__(name)
    globals()[name] = module #not a good idea

Or, seeing as how you won't be directly accessing them by name, anyways

modules = [__import__(name) for name in module_names]



From stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de  Sat Oct 15 14:01:35 2005
From: stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:01:35 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dirg76$e8u$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Kenneth McDonald schrieb:
> Is there any emerging consensus on the "best" UI for toolkit.  Tk  never
> quite made it but from what I can see, both qt and wxWin are  both doing
> fairly well in general. I'm already aware of the licensing  issues
> surrounding qt (fwiw, I think their license fee for commercial  use is
> eminently reasonable), so aside from that, I was wondering if  there was
> any feedback readers could provide on the following:
[snip]

As for my experience with Python-integrated GUI toolkits: I tried
wxWidgets/Boa and had it crashing on me all over the place. I switched to
GTK/glade2 and fought with it for a couple of days until I ran away screaming.
Next, I tried Qt/Designer and the more I learned, the more I knew I'd keep
loving it. Its Python bindings are not perfect, especially QStrings will annoy
you. You will notice that it was originally designed for C++ and had to try
hard to reimplement a lot of the batteries that Python has included, so it
often uses its own concepts where Python concepts would feel a bit nicer. But
once you accept that, you will really like its clean design that helps you
with your work.

A friend of mine switched to Mac-OS X recently and I told him to use Qt for
one of his projects. He is a Debian developer and did all of his previous GUIs
with GTK. It took him only a couple of hours to fall in love with it. He was
especially mad about the fact that it looks completely like a Mac application
on Mac-OS and like a Windows application on Windows. It even felt like a
native app.

Just try it, you'll see.

Stefan


From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Thu Oct 20 02:35:05 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:05:05 +0530
Subject: Abstract Methods & Abstract Class
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D91@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


Do we have something like abstract methods & Abstract class.

So that my class would just define the method. And the implementation
would be defined by somebody else.


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From nevillednz.python at 3ttechnology.com  Fri Oct 28 01:57:37 2005
From: nevillednz.python at 3ttechnology.com (Neville C. Dempsey)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:57:37 +0800
Subject: db.DB_CREATE|db.DB_INIT_MPOOL|db.DB_THREAD|db.DB_INIT_CDB
In-Reply-To: <20051027163026.10365.1001926466.divmod.quotient.1029@ohm>
References: <20051027163026.10365.1001926466.divmod.quotient.1029@ohm>
Message-ID: <1130479057.3218.13.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 12:30 -0400, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:17:54 +0800, "Neville C. Dempsey" <nevillednz.python at 3ttechnology.com> wrote:
> >import bsddb # twiceopen.py

> >Maybe the solution needs one of:
> >  db.DB_CREATE|db.DB_INIT_MPOOL|db.DB_THREAD|db.DB_INIT_CDB

> Except I don't think btopen() supports half these operations.  You
> really want to use bsddb.db.DBEnv and bsddb.DB.  Or a library that
> wraps them more sensibly:
>  <http://divmod.org/users/viewcvs.twistd/trunk/atop/store.py?rev=9302&view=markup>.  
> You probably don't want everything there, but the DatabaseEnvironment
> class (and supporting code) should be useful.

Hey thanks.... I saw a couple of other posting hinting at what your
"DB_INIT_TXN DB_CREATE DB_JOINENV" road map above....  I posted because
I was wondering if there was an easier path... Your posting indicates
that you have already walked this path.

  I was getting errors like: 
o bsddb._db.DBPageNotFoundError: (-30988, 'DB_PAGE_NOTFOUND: Requested page not found')
o KeyError: 'xxxxxx'
o _bsddb.DBNotFoundError: (-30990, 'DB_NOTFOUND: No matching key/data pair found')

   For now the obvious work around is to only open the file once, and
with only one running program at a time.

  This gives me a chance to check out the alternatives.
> 
> Jp
Cheer
NevilleDNZ



From brusstoc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 22:55:38 2005
From: brusstoc at gmail.com (brusstoc at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 19:55:38 -0700
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2187.1129582031.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2187.1129582031.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129690538.026623.28230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Not sure that is a good idea on a linux system. MS should be fine, but
I actually tried that on linux. Didn't realize how much on a linux
system depends on Python.

Basically ended up doing a full re-install.

I'll never do that again.



From UrsusMaximus at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:43:48 2005
From: UrsusMaximus at gmail.com (UrsusMaximus at gmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:43:48 -0700
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1128609828.859819.66800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Try PythonCard

Ron Stephens
Python Learning Center
a prententious name for a nice hobbyist resource
www.awaretek.com/plf.html



From nochiel at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 17:24:03 2005
From: nochiel at gmail.com (yoda)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 14:24:03 -0700
Subject: Automating, Building, Testing and  Deploying to Production Server
Message-ID: <1128288243.694287.134210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi Guys,
I've been used to deploying code to the production server by checking
out of subversion and manually sorting out any kinks. (yes, I know, it
sounds primitive)

I realize I'm losing so much time I could spend more productively. I'd
therefore like to know the different approaches you guys employ to
deploy builds from your staging servers (or laptops:) to the production
server in an automated repeatable safe manner.

How do you automate the process?
What tools do you use and how?
What documentation is available for the various tools?
What is the best, easiest, most automated, method that provides robust
versioning and easy rollback?



From wjzrules at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 03:08:51 2005
From: wjzrules at gmail.com (wjzrules at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 00:08:51 -0700
Subject: bug in os.system?
In-Reply-To: <1129617198.528491.125830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129617198.528491.125830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129619331.578069.97430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What happens when you try it without the single quotes?
 result = os.system("pythonbugtest.exe" "test")



From iddw at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 11:01:31 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:01:31 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1655.1128664871.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>
	<mailman.1860.1128980285.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128986126.7aab88bc9d9a2f56ea6d61ec086380ec@teranews>
	<1129007196.abf72c3d848e153a96c042bdfc96fa56@teranews>
Message-ID: <1129129351.9dc0cf8ab5e84547db09d5e573e6cd28@teranews>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:06:30 -0400, "George Sakkis"
<gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:

>"Dave Hansen" <iddw at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:42:34 -0500, Terry Hancock
>> <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday 09 October 2005 07:50 am, phil hunt wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>> >> >GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
>> >> >reading it as written pretty much makes sense).
>> >>
>> >> I know, let's re-write Python to make it more like COBOL! That's
>> >> bound to be a winner!
>> >
>> >Whereas the "natural order" of "condition affirmative negative" is natural
>> >for what reason?  That it is so in C?
>>
>> And Basic, and Fortran, and Lisp, and just about any programming
>> language you care to name, including python (if Condition: Affirmative
>> else: Negative).
>
>Block delimiters (curly braces, if/fi, begin/end, etc.) are also in just about any language but this
>didn't stop python using indentation instead, so what's your point ? Conformity and backwards

The point is order of execution.  The condition is tested first, so it
should appear first.  I can think of no other language besides Perl
where that is not the case.  Admittedly, I don't know every other, or
even a large number, of other languages.

>compatibility should not be top priorities in language design; fortunately for python, they're not.

Conformity I'd agree with, backwards capatibility I strongly disagree.
Breaking existing programs is a Bad Thing(tm).  All the code I wrote
for Python 1.52 still seems to work in 2.4.

Regards,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From sigzero at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 17:58:44 2005
From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert Hicks)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 14:58:44 -0700
Subject: Dealing with Excel
In-Reply-To: <1129672548.082627.35180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129672548.082627.35180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129672724.324991.221330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I just want to be and maybe I am not reading your response right. I am
talking about reading in bunch of rows out of Oracle and writing them
to an excel file, not using macros.

Robert



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Oct  4 13:18:24 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:18:24 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-A6C25D.10182404102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list at python.org>,
 Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> > 
> >>>Or you just code without declaring, intending to go 
> >>>back and do it later, and invariably forget.
> >>
> >>What's the problem, the compilor will allert you
> >>to your forgetfullness and you can then correct
> >>them all at once.
> > 
> > 
> > Thiat in fact happens to me all the time and is an annoying aspect of
> > Python.  If I forget to declare several variables in C, the compiler
> > gives me several warning messages and I fix them in one edit.  If I
> > forget to initialize several variables in Python, I need a separate
> > test-edit cycle to hit the runtime error for each one.
> 
> Well I hope you aren't suggesting that declaring variables makes it 
> impossible to forget to initalise them. So I don;t really see the 
> relevance of this remark, since you simply add an extra run to fix up 
> the "forgot to declare" problem. After that you get precisely one 
> runtime error per "forgot to initialize".

It's hard to say what anyone's suggesting, unless some recent
utterance from GvR has hinted at a possible declaration syntax
in future Pythons.  Short of that, it's ... a universe of
possibilities, none of them likely enough to be very interesting.

In the functional language approach I'm familiar with, you
introduce a variable into a scope with a bind -

   let a = expr in
       ... do something with a

and initialization is part of the package.  Type is usually
inferred.  The kicker though is that the variable is never
reassigned. In the ideal case it's essentially an alias for
the initializing expression.  That's one possibility we can
probably not find in Python's universe.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From dhwild at talktalk.net  Sat Oct  8 17:21:39 2005
From: dhwild at talktalk.net (David H Wild)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:21:39 +0100
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4db6cf70d0dhwild@talktalk.net>

In article <1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr at 4ax.com>,
   Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
> I take it then you avoid browsers or use Lynx?  No you FIX the
> problems rather than wear a hair shirt. Same for email. Why should
> rich expressions only be permitted to those with websites. 
> 

Between consenting adults, yes, but for general use **in emails**, no.

> Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.

I do, frequently, without any need for HTML.

-- 
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband


From reply-and-ask at nospam.thanks  Tue Oct 18 03:27:00 2005
From: reply-and-ask at nospam.thanks (James Buchanan)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:27:00 +1000
Subject: make: circular dependency for Modules/signalmodule.o
Message-ID: <4354a3f4$0$28047$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Hi group,

I'm preparing Python 2.4.2 for the upcoming Minix 3.x release, and I
have problems with make.  configure runs fine and creates the makefile,
but right at the end ends with an error about a circular dependency in
Modules/signalmodule.o.

I'm new to makefiles and makefile rules, so I can understand what this
means, but I don't know how I can fix this problem.  Looks like I'll
need to rewrite one or more makefile rules and during Minix builds add
some code to patch it up for those rules (as opposed to perhaps porting
a more capable `make` like gmake right now).

Can someone please help me make this problem go away?

Thanks!
James Buchanan



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 14 02:00:37 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:00:37 +0200
Subject: ImportError: No module named dbm
References: <2229.131.123.36.10.1129218983.squirrel@webmail.cs.kent.edu><dim49o$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<4416.131.123.36.10.1129230344.squirrel@webmail.cs.kent.edu>
Message-ID: <dinhi6$h7v$1@sea.gmane.org>

mhardas at cs.kent.edu wrote:

> firstly i couldnt find the DBM module for python 2.3.5, trustix system and
> i386 hardware platform.
> so i downloaded gnu dbm for python 2.3.5 and i568( precisly,
> python-gdbm-2.3.5-4tr.i586), simply assuming it could just work.
>
> but trying to install gives me the following error,
>
> error: failed dependencies:
>         python = 2.3.5 is needed by python-gdbm-2.3.5-4tr
>
> I am preety sure its python 2.3.5 tht is installed.

did you install 2.3.5 yourself, or via RPM (or whatever trustix is using) ?

if you built it yourself, the RPM database will not know about it; on the
other hand, all you need to do to fix that is to look for a gdbm package
for trustix, install it, and rebuild Python.

if this isn't enough to get you unstuck, it might be a good idea to check
with some trustix support forum.

</F>





From by9tusa at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  5 06:07:46 2005
From: by9tusa at hotmail.com (by9tusa at hotmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 03:07:46 -0700
Subject: sos too long penis
Message-ID: <1128506866.966844.120510@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I had in the past the most ridiculous erection in the world,4in.I'm not
poor and then,I used all the supposed "miraculous products" to
rectify.Vainly.Until one of my friends,who experimented it
himself,advise me to use an african grass,in the way of tea.As long as
I haven't obtain the desired size.I bought it.
It tooks to me 2months to reach 9.5in.
I fully enjoyed it 3years long.

But now,I'ld like to loose 2in.I think I'ld had stop the grass-tea
2weeks earliers.9.5in is a little too long.
Girls and men often run away when they see it.Too big bar.
What is more ,at the beach,it is really umpleasant to be always
remarked because of it.
I am now exasperated,I'll really want to loose a little.

Help me finding a way.
Do some one know something who can help me  or a good surgeon?(if it is
possible and riskfree)
Please help me I'm on   by9tusa at hotmail.com     PS excuse my bad
smelling english.
Expecting you soon.



Don't send me please any mail asking for what I used,take your self
informations on  www.geocities.com/tchwill85/PENIS.html   Thinks



From hagai26 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:02:54 2005
From: hagai26 at gmail.com (Hagai Cohen)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:02:54 +0200
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
Message-ID: <6f7cc16b0510201302m3454db97n2abeeacb5bfd9a87@mail.gmail.com>

Realy Thanks, I will try this

Hagai


From sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 13:06:00 2005
From: sean_mcilroy at yahoo.com (Sean McIlroy)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 10:06:00 -0700
Subject: tkinter blues (greens, reds, ...)
Message-ID: <1130519159.921821.164420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

hi all

i recently wrote a script that implements a puzzle. the interface
mostly consists of a bunch of colored disks on a tkinter canvas. the
problem is that the disks change their colors in ways other than the
way they're supposed to. it certainly isn't just a bug in my script,
since i can sometimes change the color of certain disks just by taking
focus off of the window and then bringing it back again! does this
sound like some known bug in tkinter? and if so, is there a recommended
way of working around it? if it matters, i'm using python 2.3 under
windows 95. any advice will be much appreciated.

peace



From u.hobelmann at web.de  Mon Oct 10 07:43:38 2005
From: u.hobelmann at web.de (Ulrich Hobelmann)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:43:38 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
In-Reply-To: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3qv2fcFh459sU1@individual.net>

Xah Lee wrote:
> To sort a list in Python, use the ?sort? method. For example:
> 
> li=[1,9,2,3];
> li.sort();
> print li;

Likewise in Common Lisp.  In Scheme there are probably packages for that 
as well.  My apologies for not being very fluent anymore.

CL-USER> (setf list (sort '(1 9 2 3) #'<))	; input
(1 2 3 9)					; output

The second argument is mandatory too (comparison function).

> Note that sort is a method, and the list is changed in place.

Same here.  To be safe, assign the result to "list".

> Suppose you have a matrix, and you want to sort by second column.
> Example Solution:
> 
> li=[[2,6],[1,3],[5,4]]
> li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))
> print li; # prints [[1, 3], [5, 4], [2, 6]]

CL-USER> (setf list (sort '((2 6) (1 3) (5 4))
			  #'(lambda (x y) (< (second x) (second y)))))
((1 3) (5 4) (2 6))	; output

> The argument to sort is a function of two arguments, that returns -1,
> 0, 1. This function is a decision function that tells sort() how to
> decide the order of any two elements in your list. If the first
> argument is ?less? then second argument, the function should return
> -1. If equal, then 0. Else, 1.

In CL you only need a smaller-than function.  I guess if elements are 
"equal", they don't need sorting anyway.

> li=[
> 'my283.jpg',
> 'my23i.jpg',
> 'web7-s.jpg',
> 'fris88large.jpg',
> ]

CL-USER> (setf list '("my283.jpg" "my23i.jpg" "web7-s.jpg" 
"fris88large.jpg"))

> def myComp (x,y):
>     import re
>     def getNum(str): return float(re.findall(r'\d+',str)[0])
>     return cmp(getNum(x),getNum(y))

CL-USER> (defun my-comp (x y)
	   (flet ((getnum (s)
		    (parse-integer s :start (position-if #'digit-char-p s)
				   :junk-allowed t)))
	     (< (getnum x) (getnum y))))

> li.sort(myComp)
> print li # returns ['web7-s.jpg', 'my23i.jpg', 'fris88large.jpg',
> 'my283.jpg']

CL-USER> (setf list (sort list #'my-comp))
("web7-s.jpg" "my23i.jpg" "fris88large.jpg" "my283.jpg") ; output

> li=[[2,6],[1,3],[5,4]]
> li.sort(key=lambda x:x[1] ) # is equivalent to the following
> #li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))
> print li; # prints [[1, 3], [5, 4], [2, 6]]

CL-USER> (setf list (sort '((2 6) (1 3) (5 4)) #'< :key #'second))
((1 3) (5 4) (2 6)) ; output

Here some people might jump in and say "lists might be more readable 
than vectors, but lists are slow."
If they are slow for your data set, just use vectors instead ;)

-- 
State, the new religion from the friendly guys who brought you fascism.


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Thu Oct  6 11:49:54 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:49:54 +0200
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <434545ce$0$7914$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

CppNewB a ?crit :
> I am absolutely loving my experience with Python.  Even vs. Ruby, the syntax 
> feels very clean with an emphasis on simplification.
> 
> My only complaint is that there doesn't appear to be a great commercial IDE 
> for the language.  I've tried Komodo, etc and they are nice applications, 
> but they don't feel like they give me the "power" like a Visual Studio or 
> Delphi (I wish I could articulate better the differences).    Finding a 
> descent GUI builder has been a challenge as well.  Most of them have support 
> for Dialogs, but what about more complex UI's?  I may need a resizable frame 
> within a resizable frame? I haven''t found a GUI builder with a great feel 
> yet.
> 
> Other than that, my experience has been wonderful.  Even after my 
> complaints, I plan on sticking with Python for a while. 

Try PyQT with eric3 as an IDE.

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html


From bonono at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 00:38:40 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 21:38:40 -0700
Subject: Generic utility class for passing data
In-Reply-To: <1h55r01.ovyr63zw37r6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1u-dnSkSzdnsfP_enZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>
	<1h55r01.ovyr63zw37r6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130560720.166693.239460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

just curious, since python don't care what object is being passing
around and the receiving function has to 'decode' it(be it tuple or
dict or whatever). What is the advantage of dummy class ?

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Gordon Airporte <JHoover at fbi.gov> wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering if this is might be bad practice. Sometimes when I need to
>
> I hope not, 'cuz I suggested that years ago on the Cookbook (under the
> name of Bunch) with several successive refinements.
>
> > class Dummy:
> >       pass
> >
> > Then when I need to pass some related data, Python lets me do this:
> >
> > prefill = Dummy()
> > prefill.foreground = 'blue'  #"foreground" is made up on the fly
> > prefill.background = 'red'
> > prefill.pattern = mypattern
> > return prefill
>
> Sure, but you can do even better:
>
> class Dummy(object):
>     def __init__(self, **kwds): self.__dict__ = kwds
>
> prefill = Dummy(foreground='blue', background='red', pattern=mypattern)
> return prefill
> 
> 
> Alex



From wouter at voti.nl  Sun Oct  2 14:23:47 2005
From: wouter at voti.nl (Wouter van Ooijen www.voti.nl)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 18:23:47 GMT
Subject: Distributing programs
References: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43402562.284351435@news.xs4all.nl>

>A non-python programming friend of mine has said that any programs made 
>with Python must be distributed with, or an alternative link, to the 
>source of the program.

Yes, and you must also include a blank sheet, signed by you in blood.

Seriously, whatever the license of Python itself is, a program you
have *written in Python* (which Iassume you are referring to) is
completely yours.


Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
Webshop for PICs and other electronics
http://www.voti.nl/hvu
Teacher electronics and informatics


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 16:01:28 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:01:28 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510090915350.21577@excalibur>
Message-ID: <djsik1llvhhd3j4sthaed021puv1uh5n2u@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:16:57 GMT, Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com>
wrote or quoted :

>And even more convenient is "Hey grandma, check out the latest
>photos on my web site: www.example.com/rich/photos".

that is what my sister does.  And there is now a service that will do
that  See http://storymill.com/tidepool/

I find it amusing that people who complain about me giving links in my
posts rather that expounding inline are willing to insist others do
their emails via  links where you need to fire up a separate browser
to see the images. 

The other problem is maintaining a website is probably a skillset
Grandma is not willing to acquire. Even image inserting into emails is
pushing it. Further the website  is yet an additional monthly expense
that could be avoided by using HTML in emails.

You might say what about those free 10 mb websites?  That's not very
many images with today's megapixel digital cameras.

I think we computer folk owe the public an email system that works and
that is easy to use. It should at LEAST work better than the snail
mail system. The essential problem is it was designed overnight as a
proof of concept and has not been designed to deal with the problem of
spam or tracking conversational threads. Enclosures were a kludge.
Mail should be 8-bit binary transport with a system something like the
US post uses for large parcels. They don't show up directly in your in
mail box.  You have to ok their delivery.

The biggest disincentive to spam would be to make sender pay a fee to
the receiver or to backbone maintenance.  For most people it would all
balance out.  Spammers would have to become more selective in their
targets. If they were sufficiently selective, they would not be a
nuisance. They could even be helpful sometimes.

I wrote an essay years ago on how such an email system might work.  At
this point I think the most likely evolution is via Instant messaging
acquiring all the abilities of regular email. Instant mail interfaces
were designed to be computer friendly and extendable, so even though
there are a great many of them, people have written software that can
interface to many of them such as Trillian or Jabber.

see http://mindprod.com/projects/mailreadernewsreader.html
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct 30 04:14:48 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:14:48 +0100
Subject: Recursive generators and backtracking search
In-Reply-To: <86fyqkc56l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86fyqkc56l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <3sjh88Fofs51U1@uni-berlin.de>

 >>                    for pos in qsearch( pos ):
 >>                         yield pos

> Um - do you really want to reuse the variable pos here? Yeah, it
> works, but this strikes me as very confusing. I'm not sure that it
> might not be implementation dependent.

Certainly not. pos is - and that is standard python  semantics - just a 
name. Passing the bound _value_ of pos to some function and rebinding 
the the name afterwards is perfectly legal and will work in all 
implementations.

The question of style though remains. I wouldn't do that either, but 
what I frequntly do is something like this:


pos = "10"
pos = int(pos)

Thus when I'm sort of transforming a value, I think it's ok, as the name 
still refers to the same conceptual entity.

Regards,

Diez


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 07:32:35 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:32:35 +0100
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dj7v8g$miq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-20, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> 
>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>>I was wondering how people would feel if the cmp function and
>>>the __cmp__ method would be a bit more generalised.
>>>
>>>The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
>>>indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
>>>equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.
>>>
>>>So I thought that either cmp could return None in this
>>>case or throw a specific exception. People writing a
>>>__cmp__ method could do the same.
>>>
>>
>>The current behaviour is, of course, by design: """The operators <, >, 
>>==, >=, <=, and != compare the values of two objects. The objects need 
>>not have the same type. If both are numbers, they are converted to a 
>>common type. Otherwise, objects of different types always compare 
>>unequal, and are ordered consistently but arbitrarily."""
>>
>>Personally I'm still not convinced that your requirement reflects a 
>>substantial use case (but then I'm getting used to that ;-). Just 
>>because an ordering is partial that doesn't mean that two instances of a 
>>class shouldn't be compared.
> 
> 
> I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't be compared.
> 
Sorry, I thought that was the meaning of "The problem now is that the 
cmp protocol has no way to indicate two objects are incomparable".
> 
>>What would you have Python do when the programmer tries to perform an 
>>invalid comparison (i.e. what are the exact semantics imposed when 
>>__cmp__() returns None/raises an exception)?
> 
> 
> My appologies, I should have been more complete.
> 
> What I want is a way to say that all of the following are False:
> 
>   a < b, a <= b, a == b, a > b, a >= b
> 
> and that only the following is True:
> 
>   a != b
> 
> 
> So if a coder writes one of the comparisons and as a result python
> calls the __cmp__ method on one of the terms which would return
> either None or raise an exceptions I would like it to reflect
> the above behaviour.
> 
Ergo: use rich comparisons.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From google at spiceaid.com  Wed Oct 19 12:26:16 2005
From: google at spiceaid.com (Dr. Who)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 09:26:16 -0700
Subject: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs
In-Reply-To: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129739176.881283.8910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Xah Lee wrote:
> i think the function shouldn't complain if dir already exists. How is a
> programer to distinguish if the dir already exists, or if there's a
> problem creating the dir?

Of course it should thrown an exception because it was unable to do
what it was asked: create a directory.  The fact that the directory
already exists is irrelevant to the function...it still failed to
create the directory.

And I have had situations where attempting to create a directory that
already exists was an error condition.

Jeff



From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Oct 22 16:46:05 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:46:05 -0400
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt vs extension written in C
In-Reply-To: <x74q79e2vt.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <20051022204605.27584.1180701534.divmod.quotient.2788@ohm>

On 22 Oct 2005 22:02:46 +0200, Dieter Maurer <dieter at handshake.de> wrote:
>"Tamas Nepusz" <ntamas at gmail.com> writes on 20 Oct 2005 15:39:54 -0700:
>> The library I'm working on
>> is designed for performing calculations on large-scale graphs (~10000
>> nodes and edges). I want to create a Python interface for that library,
>> so what I want to accomplish is that I could just type "from igraph
>> import *" in a Python command line and then access all of the
>> functionalities of the igraph library. Now it works, except the fact
>> that if, for example, I start computing the diameter of a random graph
>> of ~100000 nodes and ~200000 edges, I can't cancel it, because the
>> KeyboardInterrupt is not propagated to the Python toplevel (or it isn't
>> even generated until the igraph library routine returns).
>
>Python installs a "SIGINT" handler that just notes that
>such a signal was received. The note is handled during
>bytecode execution. This way, Python handles the (dangerous)
>asynchronous signal synchronously (which is much safer).
>But, it also means that a signal during execution of your C extension
>is only handled when it finished.
>
>What you can do in your wrapper code:
>
>   Temporarily install a new handler for "SIGINT" that
>   uses "longjmp" to quit the C extension execution when
>   the signal occurs.
>
>   Note that "longjmp" is dangerous. Great care is necessary.
>
>   It is likely that SIGINT occurrences will lead to big
>   resource leaks (because your C extension will have no
>   way to release resources when it gets quit with "longjmp").
>

Note that swapcontext() is probably preferable to longjmp() in almost all circumstances.  In cases where it isn't, siglongjmp() definitely is.

Jp


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 08:14:31 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:14:31 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Eike Preuss" <mail at eikepreuss.de> wrote in message 
news:3s6l8mFmj3fjU1 at individual.net...

> Shouldn't it be my right as a seller, to decide that I want to sell an
> operating system 'that nobody wants' _as well as_ operating systems that
> 'everybody wants'?

    Yes, it certainly is. However, it is also Microsoft's right as a seller 
to refuse discounts to those who also sell competing products. You may not 
particularly what operating systems your customers use, but Microsoft does.

> So it *hurts* me if I am not able to sell these. That
> it doesn't hurt me financially doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt me
> (e.g. my freedom, ideas of morality, whatever).

    You may want to start a restaurant that sells both Big Macs and 
Whoppers. But I don't think you'll get either McDonald's or Burger King to 
let you. Perhaps this hurts your freedom, your ideas of morality, or 
whatever, but the reality is that these companys don't want you selling both 
their products and competing products.

    It is McDonald's position that a Big Mac is superior to a Whopper and 
there is no reason to pick a Whopper over a Big Mac. To them, a store that 
sells both makes no sense.

    Microsoft's corporate view at the time was that an x86 desktop without 
Windows was a brick. And if you want to sell bricks, they don't want their 
customers dealing with you.

    When you sell a product, you also mention that product in your 
advertising. When you sell competing products, you take some customers who 
want the product you advertised. That is why a lot of products are only sold 
through exclusive dealerships.

    Microsoft, like any other company, has the right to set the conditions 
under which its product is sold. Prohibiting the distrubution of competing 
products is not really all that unusal, and the agreement Microsoft actually 
insisted on was much less restrictive than that.

    Is it fair to Microsoft if the big "Windows" sign on your store and in 
your advertising brings in customers looking for Windows and you then sell 
them OS2?

    DS




From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Oct 27 12:30:26 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jean-Paul Calderone)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:30:26 -0400
Subject: db.DB_CREATE|db.DB_INIT_MPOOL|db.DB_THREAD|db.DB_INIT_CDB
In-Reply-To: <1130429876.3105.1.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20051027163026.10365.1001926466.divmod.quotient.1029@ohm>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:17:54 +0800, "Neville C. Dempsey" <nevillednz.python at 3ttechnology.com> wrote:
>Why does this python program fail to read record "6000000"?
>
>#!/usr/bin/env python
>import bsddb # twiceopen.py
>
>key="6000000"
>btf=bsddb.db.DB_INIT_THREAD
>
>list1=bsddb.btopen("twiceopen.tbl",btflags=btf)
>list1[key]="we have the technology"
>
>list2=bsddb.btopen("twiceopen.tbl",btflags=btf)
>#print "key:",key,"val:",list2[key] # doesn't work...
>print "first:",list2.first() # also fails first time...
>
>list1.close()
>list2.close()
>
>Maybe the solution needs one of:
>  db.DB_CREATE|db.DB_INIT_MPOOL|db.DB_THREAD|db.DB_INIT_CDB

You really want to use transactions if you are going to access a database concurrently.  So that means DB_INIT_TXN.  Now since you need transactions, you need an environment, so you want to let bsddb create whatever environment files it needs.  So that means DB_CREATE.  Now since there's an environment, every process but the first to open it needs to *join* it, rather than opening it in the usual way.  So that means DB_JOINENV for all but the first open call.

Except I don't think btopen() supports half these operations.  You really want to use bsddb.db.DBEnv and bsddb.DB.  Or a library that wraps them more sensibly: <http://divmod.org/users/viewcvs.twistd/trunk/atop/store.py?rev=9302&view=markup>.  You probably don't want everything there, but the DatabaseEnvironment class (and supporting code) should be useful.

Jp


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 13 20:04:28 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:04:28 -0400
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <QaKdnTqC4v5kaNPeRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Ben wrote:
> Could anyone suggest an open source project that has particularly well
> written Python?  I am especially looking for code that people would
> describe as "very Python-ic".  (Not trying to start any kind of war -
> just wanted some good examples of a well written Python app to read.)

I'm sorry I can't speak on its "pythonicity" (my memory sucks), but I 
did find Roger Binns' BitPim program (http://bitpim.sourceforge.net/) to 
be an excellent source of ideas (steal steal steal) for wxPython code, 
and I do remember it struck me as being exceptionally well commented and 
well structured.  I suspect it's pretty Pythonic, too, since Roger seems 
pretty brilliant from where I sit. :-)

-Peter


From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 09:08:11 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 06:08:11 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <1130072403.157932.147930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130072403.157932.147930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130072891.260350.179950@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

just curious, how can this identity function be used ? In haskell,
because all functions are curried, I can sort of visualize/understand
how id is used. Not quite understand how it can be used in python.

beza1e1 wrote:
> >>> id("blub")
> -1210548288
>
> This is not identity in a mathematical view.
>
> def identity(x): return x
>
> It has is uses. I had some kind of parser and had a dict like this:
> {case: function, ...} It had to be a dict, because i wanted to
> dynamically add and remove cases. In some cases nothing had to be done.
> To represent this in the dict a identity function is needed. There
> surely are other ways, but identity was the most expressive in my eyes.
> 
> Nice read, by the way. Thanks for sharing ;)



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 09:41:40 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:41:40 +0100
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
In-Reply-To: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dij3qn$i1v$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Comments are welcome:
> 
>   http://www.pardon-sleeuwaegen.be/antoon/avltree.html
Does this type bear any relationship at all to what most people call a 
tree, which is a bifurcated data structure? Or do you call it a tree for 
some other reason?

Sounds like "cdict" might be a better name ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 10:20:19 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:20:19 +0200
Subject: reading hebrew text file
References: <1129558279.759330.199890@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4l3wj.1kww9z7e5qtw5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<hagai26 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a hebrew text file, which I want to read in python
> I don't know which encoding I need to use & how I do that

As for the "how", look to the codecs module -- but if you don't know
what codec the textfile is written in, I know of no ways to guess from
here!-)


Alex


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Oct 12 12:40:53 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 16:40:53 GMT
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <slrndkq9ge.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:37:03 +0100, Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, it was written:
...
>> There is no way you can avoid making garbage.  Python conses everything, 
>> even integers (small positive ones are cached).
>
> So python doesn't use the old SmallTalk 80 SmallInteger hack, or similar? 

If the SmallInteger hack is something like this, it does:

>>> a = 42
>>> b = 42
>>> a is b
True
>>> a = 42000
>>> b = 42000
>>> a is b
False
>>>

... which I guess is what if referred to above as "small positive
ones are cached".

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From pitonero at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:44:03 2005
From: pitonero at gmail.com (El Pitonero)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:44:03 -0700
Subject: updating local()
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<di3757$oql$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
	<1128605703.628601.140890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128609843.635265.211860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Flavio wrote:
> I wish all my problems involved just a couple of variables, but
> unfortunately the real interesting problems tend to be complex...
>
> def fun(**kw):
>     a = 100
>     for k,v in kw.items():
>         exec('%s = %s'%(k,v))
>     print locals()
>
>
> >>> fun(**{'a':1,'b':2})
> {'a': 1, 'k': 'b', 'b': 2, 'kw': {'a': 1, 'b': 2}, 'v': 2}
>
> any better Ideas?

Actually, your solution is not bad. Some potential problems are: (1)
unintentional name collisions with other variables, including
globals/builtins, (2) it's easy to unpack variables into locals(), but
not easy to pack them back, since locals() are often contaminated with
extra auxiliary variables.

Your problem happens often in the field of math formulas/equations.

I remember similar problem happens in C++, too. When one has a function
with a long list of parameters, in C++ one may find oneself updating
the funtion header/prototype all the time, which is very tiresome and
error-prone.

When you have complicated list of arguments to pass, it's better to put
them into a structure/object. This way, the function header/prototype
will remain the same, and you only need to change the declaration of
the object.

The parameter object(s) could be called:

- request and response, if input and output are separated
- param
- workspace, session, etc.

so, your function call would look like

class Param: pass
...
def f(p):
    result = p.x + p.y
    return result
...
p=Param()
p.x = 3
p.y = 4
result = f(p)

Now, you may not like the extra dots in the line:

result = p.x + p.y

My experience is: it's not that bad to have names with extra dots. I
know it's annoying, but not a total disaster. Plus, once you start to
use OOP, it makes your code more organized. It has its benefits. For
instance, very often your models/formulas have several versions. Using
OOP's class hierarchy inheritance mechanism allows you to try out
different versions or different ideas much more easily, and you can
roll back the changes more easily, too (instead of commenting out code
lines all over places.) If you do decide to go the route of OOP, the
lines:

p.x = 3
p.y = 4
p.z = 5

can be replaced by something like:

calculation_engine.set(x=3, y=4)
calculation_engine.set(z=5)

----------------------

The longer answer is: if you need complex formula evaluations, Python
is probably not the language to use. For speed and memory usage issues,
C++ is probably what you need. You can hookup your C++ program to
Python in various ways, but packing/unpacking variables seems
unavoidable. And even in C++ (where object attributes don't have the
dots inside the object's own methods), I still often end up using a lot
of dotted names for attributes from other objects.

If the problem is complex, then it's complex. I know you have your
equations, but you have to decide for yourself: is it better to do all
the packing/unpacking, or is it better to change your equations to use
the dotted names? There is no right or wrong answer, it all depends on
your particular situation.



From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 09:31:15 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 06:31:15 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
Message-ID: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Python regular expressions must not have more than 100 capturing
groups. The source code responsible for this reads as follows:


    # XXX: <fl> get rid of this limitation!
    if p.pattern.groups > 100:
        raise AssertionError(
            "sorry, but this version only supports 100 named groups"
            )

I have been waiting a long time now for Python to get rid of this
limitation.
I could make a program of mine a lot faster with an easy hack if Python
did not have it.

My question is: Does anyone know if the problem is going to be fixed in
the next few months or so? Or is there a way to circumvent it?


J?rg Schuster



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 31 10:00:49 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:00:49 -0700
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1h5adfk.dytzwnaihttrN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Alex Hunsley <lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> wrote:

> There's no really specific questions in this post, but I'm looking for
> people's thought on the issues within...
> 
> 
> The two main versions I've encountered for data pseudo-hiding 
> (encapsulation) in python are:
> 
> method 1:
> 
> _X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
>        know that this data should be private.
> 
> 
> method 2:
> 
> __X - (double underscore) - mangles the name (in a predictable way).
>        Avoids name pollution.
> 
> 
> How often does either tend to get used? Personally, I'd be a little 
> worried about using method 1, because namespace clashes could happen. Is
> this overly paranoid?

Experienced programmers who know little Python tend to start with (2),
and mostly migrate to (1) with time (once they've had to hand-mangle
names a few times to work around (2)'s limitations for testing or
overrides they had not foreseen).  Accidental name clashes between
superclasses and subclasses tend to be caught very rapidly by unit tests
that are at all decent, anyway.


> Also, I presume that rather than people writing their own manual getter
> and setter methods, they tend to use either overloading on __getattr__
> and __setattr__, or the Property class (which itself uses aforementioned
>   methods). Overloading __getattr__ etc. seems more attractive to me, as
> then I can capture access to unknown names, and raise an exception!

If you AVOID overriding __getattr__, THEN you'll automatically get
exceptions; __getattr__ is called only when, were it absent, the
exception would get raised.  property does NOT use __getattr__ at all,
but rather each instance thereof is a descriptor and thus uses its own
__get__.  __setattr__ has very different semantics and is appropriate
only in very peculiar circumstances.


> (I really don't like the idea of random attribute name typos going 
> unnoticed when accessing attributes in a class!)

A common but unjustified paranoia.  I've been coding almost exclusively
(say over 90% of my work) in Python for over 5 years, and also teaching,
consulting, mentoring &c based on Python, and all the possible
"typo"-level bugs that so terrify so many new-to-Python programmers are
simply irrelevant -- they're not common in the first place, pychecker
and the likes make short work of them, and unit tests (which ARE
indispensable in any language anyway) catch them easily just as they
catch the really nasty typos possible in any language such as typing -=
where one meant +=, < where one should have coded <= (the one most
likely tiny-bug in any language, since it can be a thinko ever more
easily than a typo -- it once took me three days debugging a Fortran
program for extremely subtle corner-case errors that boiled down to a
miscoding of .LT. where .LE. should have been), and the like.


If you manage to do a significant poll of the community, don't forget to
correlate respondents' opinions with each respondent depth and length of
experience with real-world Python use...


Alex


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct  6 15:52:34 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:52:34 -0500
Subject: So far (about editing tools)
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <48D17FEA-3E2D-46CA-AEB4-86EA1CFACCB1@sbcglobal.net>

This is something I fought with for a long time. My overwhelming vote  
is Eclipse with the PyDev plugin. (Google search should reveal this).  
Here are the pros and cons.

1) Eclipse is a _big_ system, with a strong emphasis on Java. So  
there's a lot of functionality you need to learn to ignore, and  
finding all of the different settings you're interested in can be a  
chore. And you'll need to learn the "Eclipse Way" (eg using  
repositories.)

2) Also, some of the eclipse dialogs are not the most intuitive,  
IMHO. Though to be fair, almost no programs do a good job of this.

3) But, given its weight, Eclipse is surprisingly fast.

4) Also, Eclipse has _very_ flexible (including multistroke)  
keybindings. It comes with predefined emacs keybindings.

5) And, PyDev is really _quite_ nice. It can also use PyLint, which  
is a big plus. (It was the first time I'd used PyLint, and it caught  
a _lot_ of potential errors.)

6) Finally, the eclipse layout is very flexible, and can be set up to  
be almost entirely keyboard-navigable.

The only _real_ problem is the eclipse learning curve. But, given  
that eclipse will be around for a _long_ time, and given how nicely  
PyDev is coming along, I actually expect this to become the de facto  
standard Python editor (though it will take a while).

Oh yeah, installation is (pretty) simple.


Ken



On 6-Oct-05, at 2:36 PM, CppNewB wrote:

> I am absolutely loving my experience with Python.  Even vs. Ruby,  
> the syntax
> feels very clean with an emphasis on simplification.
>
> My only complaint is that there doesn't appear to be a great  
> commercial IDE
> for the language.  I've tried Komodo, etc and they are nice  
> applications,
> but they don't feel like they give me the "power" like a Visual  
> Studio or
> Delphi (I wish I could articulate better the differences).     
> Finding a
> descent GUI builder has been a challenge as well.  Most of them  
> have support
> for Dialogs, but what about more complex UI's?  I may need a  
> resizable frame
> within a resizable frame? I haven''t found a GUI builder with a  
> great feel
> yet.
>
> Other than that, my experience has been wonderful.  Even after my
> complaints, I plan on sticking with Python for a while.
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 00:48:07 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:48:07 +0100
Subject: Python, COM Servers, and Multi-Threading
In-Reply-To: <dieugf$qpm$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <dieugf$qpm$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <difg6a$mn9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Carl Waldbieser wrote:
> I have been considering using Python and the Reportlab library for
> generating PDF reports for the back-end of a web based application.  The
> application runs most of its background tasks on a dedicated server that is
> Windows based (Win2K or Win2k3).  The program that launches the tasks
> requires a COM-based interface, so I wrote a Python COM server using Mark
> Hammond's PythonCom libraries and import and run the reporlab modules from
> there.
> 
Have you selected a specific threading model for your COM server? This 
will affect how hardware resource are allocated as well as how sharing 
takes place between different uses.

> I had been reading up on Python and it's handling of the multiple threads,
> specifically the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL).  I got to wondering if a
> multi-processor machine machine would be able to take advantage of its
> extra processing power using this setup.  I am guessing that the GIL is
> global with respect to each instance of a running Python interpreter, so if
> say 4 interpreters were running, a 4 processor machine would be able to
> take advantage of this.  However, I am not quite sure how launching my
> reports via COM behaves-- if I launched 4 reports this way, would that be
> like launching 4 seperate instances of the Python interpreter, or would it
> be just a single instance, and therefore run into the limitations of the
> GIL?  If so, can anybody offer suggestions as to a design that would be
> better able to take advantage of a multi-processor machine?
> 
I am certainly no expert on COM threading models, but I would suspect 
that if you specify you want your COM server to be in-process then you 
would get a per-process interpreter.

You also need to be aware that if you trigger this stuff with IIS then 
the web server itself performs thread pooling and (I believe) allocates 
only one process per "application", so this may defeat your desire to 
use all four processors concurrently.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Mon Oct 17 07:46:10 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:46:10 GMT
Subject: Calling an exe from Python?
References: <1129492892.037665.123590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129501388.075484.138870@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl6st6.2k5.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 16 Oct 2005 15:23:08 -0700, SPE - Stani's Python Editor <spe.stani.be at gmail.com> wrote:
> Slightly offtopic, but you can translate any double clicking (*.exe,
> *.pdf, *.html, ...) in the Windows Explorer into:
>
> import os
> os.startfile(fileName)

That would be Windows-specific, though.

But yes, it's that one, or os.system, or one of the os.popen*, or one of the
os.spawn*, or module subprocess mentioned elsewhere in the thread.
-- Depending on exactly what you want to do.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct  5 18:29:35 2005
From: eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl (Eric Nieuwland)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 00:29:35 +0200
Subject: Build spoofed IP packets
In-Reply-To: <StP0f.13218$133.4236@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <L2D0f.12452$133.5252@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<slrndk6qvp.8dq.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<StP0f.13218$133.4236@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <ffccc084d8634011824548ea6443324d@xs4all.nl>

billie wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\test\client.py", line 156, in ?
>     send_pkt()
>   File "C:\test\client.py", line 96, in send_pkt
>     s.sendto(ip.get_packet(), (dst, 0)) # send packet to server
> socket.error: (10004, 'Interrupted system call')
>
> Note: this only happens on Windows XP prof SP2. On Linux I got no 
> problems.
> I run the program as Administrator.

It's SP2. Microsoft decided allowing raw socket access is a security 
threat and disabled it in SP2.

--eric



From steve49152 at yahoo.ca  Tue Oct 18 21:35:28 2005
From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 18:35:28 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-ID: <1129685728.880635.128930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Just passin' through....

Xah Lee, on Aug 22, 2:43 pm wrote:
Unix, RFC, and Line Truncation
[snippage]
> There is no reason for a paragraph encoding to be splattered with end
> of line characters, nor the human labor expended. There is reason for
> paragraphs to be displayed not too wide, and that is readability. What
> the unixer could not get clear of is a distinction of concepts. Because
> their fantastically hacked-up operating system operate by the principle
> that lines should not be some 80 chars or else it will be truncated and
> *silently* too, thus it became _necessarily_ their _habit_ and thought
> that line truncation business is natural and a human duty. Unknown of
> these setups, the unix geeks go by their presumption that all text
> should be hard wrapped, as if parameters should be hard-coded.

I've seen this argument before.  There's at least one VERY good reason
to hard-code linebreaks in text:  to preserve a covert channel.  It's
really easy to structure plain text in such a way to include super
sekret messages that can only be properly decoded when the original
formatting of the text is preserved.  Assuming that all of us are
agreed that plain text is the correct lowest-common denominator in
email and Usenet communications, it makes sense to allow for additional
personal expression by way of enabling users to encode additional
information in the formatting of their messages.

So, while Mr. Lee (who is not alone) is apparently of the opinion that
paragraphs should be formatted according to the transient size of the
newsreader window, his preference destroys a channel of expression
available to the putative author -- if free-flow paragraph structure is
mandated by the messaging standards and conventions of the text
messaging community.

Personally, I think the status quo is fine.  People who wish to insert
line breaks where they wish in their paragraphs may do so, and others
may rely (or not) on their software to format their messages.

In the long term there are more pressing problems.  Sould we, for
instance, extend the plain text 'conventions', which are largely
concerned with 7-bit ASCII messaging, and all the associated software
applications to work with unidcode character sets?  Simplicity is good
and all that, but this is a multi-cultural, multi-language world.
Locking out the non-English speaking population from Usenet or (worse)
from manually interoperating with basic Internet protocols (for
instance) seems rather short sighted.

I do not mean to start a flame war here; I am just trying to point out
the obvious.  People like Mr. Lee, as well as many, many application
deveolopers are well-meaning but misguided.  They would unnecessarily
complexify things that should be simple and simplify things that should
be complex.  I, for one, am continuing to think about these issues
because I see no simple solutions and have no magic bullet to offer
that would solve these perennial difficulties of prereference, clarity,
and common sense.

Perhaps one day we will converge on near optimal solutions to these and
like issues; which will be coded and formalised in standards, and which
will stand for the indefinate future.


Regards,

Steve



From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 14:41:46 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 11:41:46 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
Message-ID: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have two lists.
I want to sort by a value in the first list and have the second list
sorted as well... Any suggestions on how I should/could do this?



From petercable at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 20:34:17 2005
From: petercable at gmail.com (petercable at gmail.com)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 17:34:17 -0700
Subject: Idle
References: <dhuo72$8lo$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
	<08C0f.517$ht7.198@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<dhurjr$fsg$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
Message-ID: <1128472457.920615.52980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you are compiling python and you want to build idle/tkinter, you
need to have the development packages for tcl and tk. The python build
scripts will only build tkinter should they find the libraries
(libtk8.4.so and libtcl8.4.so) and the header files (tk.h and tcl.h).
If you don't have the development packages installed, you most likely
do not have the header files.

If you install the development packages and recompile, test by
importing _tkinter. If that is successful, idle should run just fine.



From timothy at open-networks.net  Sun Oct  9 19:25:06 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:25:06 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <4349A6D2.4010001@open-networks.net>

Timothy Smith wrote:

>i have reproduced the error in this code block
>
>#save values in edit
>		self.FinaliseTill.SaveEditControlValue()
>		if 
>Decimal(self.parent.TillDetails[self.TillSelection.GetStringSelection()]['ChangeTinBalance'])) 
>== Decimal('0'):
>			#box must be checked before continuing
>			if self.PlacedInSafe.GetValue() != 1:
>				self.parent.Popup("You must place the till draw back in the 
>safe","Till draw")
>			else:
>				#finalise the till draw
>				if 	Decimal(self.TillFloat.GetLabel().split('$')[1]) != Decimal('0'):
>					Prompt = wx.MessageDialog(self,"""The correct amount has not been 
>returned from the till draw float to the main float!
>					If you proceed please contact your manager""","Change tin doesn't 
>balance!",wx.YES_NO)
>					if Prompt.ShowModal() == wx.ID_YES:
>						self.Submit()
>		else:
>			self.parent.Popup('You have an outstanding change tin balance on this 
>till','Change tin')
>
>
>i have NO idea what in there could be making it have such a strange 
>error. it just says "error" when you try run it. there nothing terribly 
>strange being done.
>  
>
FYI i have located where the problem was. in the first if statement
there was an unbalanced ). now since when does python not give a
descriptive error for that?



From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Tue Oct 11 18:01:23 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:01:23 GMT
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>
	<1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.21.33.19.546178@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:30:23 -0700, Mystilleef wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Thank you. That's all I needed. For some reason, I had always assumed
> forking was an expensive process. I guess I was ill-informed.

In a loop, yes, it's expensive.

Done once, it's usually not unacceptable.



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Sun Oct 30 07:32:11 2005
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 04:32:11 -0800
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
In-Reply-To: <1h56rdh.1lgzv2op15fcpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130592935.839750.322930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h56rdh.1lgzv2op15fcpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130675531.890627.184980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Don't neglect MacOSX -- it's quite secure, there are many open and free
> applications, AND it has a decent architecture for the kind of tasks you
> want to do (mostly intended for Apple's own Applescript language, but
> all the interfaces are open and easily available to Python, which is
> quite well supported on the Mac).

FWIW, there's a nice overview of the Open Scripting Architecture at:

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/wcook/papers/AppleScript/AppleScript95.pdf

It's not a perfect system and the quantity and quality of support
varies from application to application and language to language, but I
reckon the other *nixes could still learn a thing or two from it.

HTH

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 09:19:21 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 06:19:21 -0700
Subject: Accessing a dll from Python
Message-ID: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi to all,

Can someone give me lights on how can I deal with dlls from python?

My main purpose is to get access to a Unitech PT600 Bar Code system. I
have the dll that works fine through Visual Basic. But I'm migrating to
Python, so I need a way to use the same dll, or a C library.

I tried to access a dll created by myself on Visual Basic. The dll just
have one function. It works perfect when using it on a VB project just
including it in the references configuration. But I can't access it
from python. I tried the ctypes module.

Thank you

Daniel



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Oct  5 13:05:27 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:05:27 -0700
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
In-Reply-To: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net>
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <20051005170527.GC23483@ActiveState.com>

[Thomas Heller wrote]
> I'm about to add some logging calls to a library I have.  How can I
> prevent that the script that uses the library prints
> 'No handlers could be found for logger "comtypes.client"' when the
> script runs?
> 
> I would like to setup the logging so that there is no logging when
> nothing is configured, and no warning messages are printed.

This is probably a gross hack, but then I think one could argue that the
one-time "No handlers could be found for" warning is a misfeature -- at
least without a clean way to suppress it. I don't know the history of
that warning though:


    -------------- mylib.py -----------------------
    import logging
    log = logging.getLogger("mylib")
    def func():
        log.warn("don't go near the river")
        log.error("I'm drowning!")
    --------------------------------------------------


    -------------- myscript.py -----------------------
    import sys
    import logging
    import mylib

    if __name__ == "__main__":
        if "-v" in sys.argv:
            logging.basicConfig()
        else:
            logging.Logger.manager.emittedNoHandlerWarning = True
        mylib.func()
    --------------------------------------------------


    $ python myscript.py

    $ python myscript.py -v
    WARNING:mylib:don't go near the river
    ERROR:mylib:I'm drowning!


hackily yours,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 00:04:27 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:04:27 +1000
Subject: output
References: <mailman.2097.1129337341.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.15.04.04.26.667646@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:48:59 -0700, Shi Mu wrote:

> After I run the following python code, I expect to have the printing such as:
> The year is 2005
> 
> However, I got something like:
> The year is 2005
> Fri Oct 14 17:43:31 2005
> Fri Oct 14 17:43:31 2005
> The year is 2005
> 
> What is the reason?
> 
> The code follows:
> 
> import time
> import now


>>> import now
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named now

Looks like your bug is in your module "now". Would you like to tell us
what is in it, or should we try to guess?

Looking at the rest of your code:


> class today(now.now):

You have a class called "now" in the module "now", and are sub-classing it
into a class called "today". I think this is bad design.

Firstly, it is recommended practice to name classes with an initial
capital letter. So you would use now.Now as the class.

Secondly, I don't feel that today is something which should be a class.
After all, there is only one thing "today". I feel that today should be a
function that returns the date of today, or maybe an instance of a date
class. Then you could have instances "yesterday", "tomorrow",
"one_week_from_last_wednesday" and so forth.

But let's continue:


>     def __init__(self, y = 1970):

You are initialising an instance of "today" with a default year of 1970?
Do you have a time machine?

This suggests to me that you are actually trying to create a general date
class. Am I close?

> 	now.now.__init__(self)

Remember, now is a module, now.now is a class from that module. So you
are calling the __init__ method of the now.now class with self as a
parameter. This is very confusing code. Who knows what this is doing --
not us, because you haven't shown us the code.

What are you trying to accomplish here? It almost looks like you are
trying to use the Borg design pattern, by making every instance of today
store it's data inside the superclass. Is this deliberate?


>     def update(self,tt):
> 	if len(tt) < 9 :
> 	    raise TypeError
> 	if tt[0] < 1970 or tt[0] > 2038:
> 	    raise OverflowError
> 	self.t = time.mktime(tt)
> 	self(self.t)

Why are you calling self as if it were a function? Does now.now have a
__call__ method? 

> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     n = today()
>     print "The year is", n.year

I would guess that when you create an instance of class today, somewhere
in that mess of calling the superclass, you have a print statement that
prints the current time and date. That piece of code is being called twice.

-- 
Steven.



From mcarter at uk.ibm.com  Tue Oct 11 07:35:24 2005
From: mcarter at uk.ibm.com (Marc Carter)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:35:24 +0100
Subject: subprocess and non-blocking IO (again)
In-Reply-To: <donn-D46A5E.11473410102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <434a80e4_2@news3.prserv.net>
	<donn-D46A5E.11473410102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <434ba16a_1@news3.prserv.net>

Donn Cave wrote:
> If you want to use select(), don't use the fileobject
> functions. Use os.read() to read data from the pipe's file
> descriptor (p.stdout.fileno().)  This is how you avoid the
> buffering.
Thankyou, this works perfectly.  I figured it would be something simple.

Marc


From dawenliu at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 16:22:55 2005
From: dawenliu at gmail.com (dawenliu at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 13:22:55 -0700
Subject: extracting numbers from a file, excluding fixed words
In-Reply-To: <4363c20c$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4363c20c$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1130617375.421512.123850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I've changed the code a little bit and works fine now:
inf = open('input.txt')
out = open('output.txt', 'w')

skips = [
'xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx',
  'yyyyy yyyyyy yyy yyyyyy yyyyy yyy']

for line in inf:
  flag = 0
  for skip in skips:
    if skip in line:
      flag = 1
      continue
  if flag == 0:
    out.write(line)

inf.close()
out.close()



From http  Tue Oct  4 07:17:33 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 04:17:33 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3bnhlx1m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128422990.741343.292310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xll194jle.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> writes:
> I think the BIGGEST threat here is a feeling of vulnerablity.  She now
> realizes that she is in a position that her competition was many years
> ago when she came into possesion of program the 'other side' was using
> and that she is now vulnerable.  She wants to feel safe in the
> knowledge that she didn't reach into her pocket and pay thousands of
> dollars for a program that now could now be used by her competition.
> Nobody wants to pay money to level the playing field for all in a
> business environment.

Suppose that competitor's program that her employee had illicitly
brought her wasn't protected, so she was able to run it.  You might
ask her whether, ethical issues aside, she would be willing to use it
on a daily basis, given it sounds like people in her industry know
each other enough that word would probably get back to the competitor,
and any resulting lawsuit would leave her up a creek.  If she's not
willing to use her competitor's program under those cirumstances,
should she really be afraid of her competitor using hers?  Also, if
all she got from the competitor was an .exe, she'd have no way to
customize it, and vice versa.

> It's just a collection of names, addresses, phone numbers, birthdays
> and drivers licences/health cards.  I can think of a few dishonest
> things that could be done with this but her competition has the
> basically the same clients.

Well, that sounds pretty confidential to me, but I'll take your word
for it that the competitors are more interested in the code than the
data.  I do think she's overestimating the threat.

> Not by my standards but it is slowly replacing a paper system.  (Police
> officer shows up and says 'We've just arrested John Smith.  Has he sold
> you anything in the last 90 days.  The client says 'Just a minute' and
> reaches for a set of 4" d-ring binders and turns hundreds of pages
> looking for a Smith name...)  My client is relived that this senario
> will soon disappear.

Is there something there that you can't do with a few spreadsheet macros?

> > What is the competitor going to do with this code even if they get it?
> Simplify their lives.  See above.

Lawsuits don't simplify anyone's life ;-).

> > Also, is there an office network?  Maybe you could run the program on
> > a server that most employees wouldn't have access to.  They'd use it
> > through some limited client program or through a web browser.
> 
> A network exists but the client insists on a standalone PC.

How about two PC's connected by a piece of ethernet cable, but no
outside network connection.  The server is a laptop or palmtop locked
in a desk drawer.  A little hole is drilled in the back of the drawer
for the power and network cables.  The network cable is connected to a
PC on top of the desk that the employees actually use, running a web
browser or the like.


From sigzero at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 21:54:08 2005
From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert Hicks)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 18:54:08 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <11ktkis6d2ko16b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<11ktkis6d2ko16b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1129514047.919187.315430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Grant Edwards wrote:
<snip>
> Aside from the look & feel issue with Tk, the other objection
> sometimes heard is that Tk is integrated into Python by
> including Tcl as well (as opposed to doing an actual Tk binding
> the way some other languages have done).  It's an eminently
> practical approach, but it sure makes you feel dirty.
>

Dirty or not, it allows Python to utilitze any new features of Tk much
faster than an actual Tk binding would. That is Perl/Tk's problem...it
is slow to adopt new Tk features.

Robert



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 04:29:42 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:29:42 +0200
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4knsn.1tihnpm15d5y4lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<themightydoyle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
> a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
> timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.

Definitely a better architecture.  Anyway, one supported way for a
thread to raise an exception in a different thread is function
thread.interrupt_main(), which raises a KeyboardInterrupt in the *main*
thread (the one thread that's running at the beginning of your program).

There's also a supported, documented function to raise any given
exception in any existing thread, but it's deliberately NOT directly
exposed to Python code -- you need a few lines of  C-coded extension (or
pyrex, ctypes, etc, etc) to get at the functionality.  This small but
non-null amount of "attrition" was deliberately put there to avoid
casual overuse of a facility intended only to help in very peculiar
cases (essentially in debuggers &c, where the thread's code may be buggy
and fail to check a keep-alive flag correctly...!-).


Alex


From stryder at telenet.invalid  Tue Oct 18 20:17:53 2005
From: stryder at telenet.invalid (Aragorn)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:17:53 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Rgg5f.26668$Z96.897128@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

On Wednesday 19 October 2005 01:24, Steven D'Aprano stood up and spoke
the following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.misc...:/

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:
> 
>>>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
>>>
>>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.
>> 
>>     That's almost as convincing as "that's what you think".
>> 
>>     DS
> 
> 
> When you are repeating a fact with as much psychological research
> supporting it as that one, it isn't necessary to justify it, any more
> than it would be necessary to justify a statement like "parents love
> their children". It isn't John Kennedy's fault that you aren't up to
> date.
> 
> Both statements are generalisations, it is true, and both are probably
> true about the same percentage of time.
> 
> Oh, and if you think I'm saying something shocking by suggesting that
> somebody is a psychopath, I'm not. Something like one in five of the
> general population are psychopaths, a much higher percentage of
> "go-getters" like company CEOs, generals, politicians, executives,
> etc. Very few of them chop people up into small pieces and bury them
> in the wall cavities of their house.
> 
> With training and/or a good dose of enlightened self-interest, most
> psychopaths are perfectly capable of learning to not be selfish
> vicious brutes who care only for themselves and perhaps a few others.
> Or rather, to stop *acting* as selfish vicious brutes. Not caring
> about the harm done by your corporate machinery is not a crime.
> Actually doing that harm is, or at least should be, although sadly
> when we allow the psychopaths to make the rules, they tend to make
> rules that allow themselves to prosper at our expense.
 
You are correct, Sir.  The "psychopaths" who hack people up into small
pieces and use their remains for insulation, food or raincoat fabric
are in fact not psychopaths; they are sociopaths. ;-)

A psychopath is someone who lacks ethics and/or the ability to respect
his fellow human being.  They are quite often narcissistic and perverse
individuals.  They make good dictators and successful businessmen.

Their prevalence really isn't one out of five people - more like one out
of fifty - but I'm sure you knew that. ;-)

-- 
With kind regards,

*Aragorn*
(Registered Gnu/Linux user #223157)


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 14:48:27 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:48:27 -0700
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list of
	files)
In-Reply-To: <4q7ityin.fsf@blue.sea.net>
References: <mailman.2111.1129375867.509.python-list@python.org>	<c5t723-v71.ln1@rogers.com>
	<4q7ityin.fsf@blue.sea.net>
Message-ID: <diritr$kv0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jari Aalto wrote:

> Thanks, is there equivalent to this Perl statement in Python?
> 
>    @list = @ARGV[1 .. @ARGV];
> 
> or something similar so that I could avoid the 1 > 1 (sys.argv) check
> altogether?

for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
    ...

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 20:31:38 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 00:31:38 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0C6A35F486castleamber@130.133.1.4>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 GMT, Roedy Green
> <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote: 
> 
>>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted :
>>
>>>I think e-mail should be text only.
> I think that is a useful base standard, which allows easy creation of
> ad-hoc tools to search and extract data from your archives, etc. 
>>
>>I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
>>HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.
>>
>>But HTML is not the problem!
> Right, it's what the HTML-interpreting engines might do that is
> the problem.

You mean the same problem as for example using a very long header in 
your email to cause a buffer overflow? That is possible with plain 
ASCII, and has been done.

>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>>  
>>HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
>>colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.
> All good stuff, but I don't like worrying about side effects when I
> read email.

Then you should ask people to print it out, and use snail mail. Exploits 
in email programs are not happening since HTML was added to them.

>>I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
>>only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.

> How about pdf?

Ah, and that's exploit free?

>>Program listings are much more readable on my website.
> IMO FOSS pdf could provide all the layout benefits while
> avoiding (allowing for bugs) all the downsides of X/HTML in emails.

Amazing, so one data format that's open is better compared to another 
open data format based on what?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From carsten at uniqsys.com  Fri Oct  7 11:10:33 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:10:33 -0400
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1128694740.418262.95470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128697833.13068.53.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 10:33, alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> In fact, i want to sort the list based on the 'allocated attribute' and
> at the same time, test membership based on the id attribute.
> __cmp__ logically implies an ordering test, not an identity test. These
> two notions seems to be confounded in python which is unfortunate. Two
> objects could have the same rank while still being different.
> Alain

You could use the id in __cmp__ as a tie-breaker if the two objects have
equal "allocated" values.

By the way, __cmp__ is not an identity test. The "in" operator doesn't
use object identity, it uses object equality, and __cmp__ does serve to
test object equality (if no __eq__ method is present).

Perhaps the following example will clarify the behavior of "in":

>>> A = [1]
>>> B = [1]
>>> A==B
True
>>> A is B
False
>>> A in ["spam", 42, B]
True

HTH,

Carsten Haese.




From edreamleo at charter.net  Mon Oct 17 11:16:38 2005
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:16:38 -0500
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.4a1 released
Message-ID: <LgP4f.7793$lN2.1203@fe04.lga>

Leo 4.4 alpha 1 is now available at:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106
To learn about Leo, see: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

Leo 4.4 adds an Emacs-like minibuffer and support for all frequently-used 
Emacs commands. Emacs users will be able to choose key bindings compatible 
with their present finger habits. Eventually, Vim users will be able to do 
the same.

This is definitely an alpha release; several minibuffer commands are buggy. 
However, this release also significantly improves Leo's error recovery 
capabilities.  This may be the most robust version of Leo ever released.

The highlights of Leo 4.4 alpha 1:
----------------------------------
- Support for all frequently-used Emacs commands, including cursor and 
screen movement, basic character, word and paragraph manipulation, and 
commands to manipulate buffers, the kill ring, regions and rectangles.

- An Emacs-like minibuffer: you can now execute any command by name from the 
minibuffer, both the new Emacs-style commands and traditional Leo commands.

- You can define key bindings for all commands, including the new minibuffer 
commands, using @shortcuts nodes in leoSettings.leo files. You can define 
multiple sets of key bindings and switch between those sets easily.

- Several fixes to the 4.3 code base.

Coming in later releases of Leo 4.4:
------------------------------------
- Support for 'mouseless Leo'. There will be commands to manipulate all 
aspects of Leo using commands, so your fingers will never have to leave the 
keyboard.

- Support for Vim and other 'plain-key' command modes.

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Home:     http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
CVS:      http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=3458
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html

Edward K. Ream
October 17, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Oct 27 19:18:29 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:18:29 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djrjlv$i31$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djrjlv$i31$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <200510271818.29962.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

Okay, I admit I'm wasting time answering this stupid thread, but
what the hey, what's usenet without a flame war now and then. ;-)

Into the fray ...

On Thursday 27 October 2005 05:17 pm, David Schwartz wrote:
>     No. I have never received a dime from Microsoft, either directly or 
> indirectly. I am one of those people who believes that conduct that's 
> perfectly legal, moral and ethical before you can be said to have a monopoly 
> does not suddenly become immoral or unethical the day you acquire 51% of 
> what someone calls a market. I am not the only person with this view.

Yeah, and if you thought the world was flat or only 6000 years
old, you wouldn't be the only person with that view either. You'd
still be wrong. ;-)

This is an example of an established legal principle. Consider:

   If someone gets into a fight and someone gets injured, the court's
   determination will be entirely different depending on whether the
   person is untrained or has a blackbelt or other martial arts training.

   In the same vein, the exact same behavior will get very different
   treatment depending on whether there was "no harm done" or if
   one of the participants in the brawl died.

The *effect* of a monopolist's anti-competitive actions ARE a consideration
under law. We permit behavior from people who do not have effective control
of a marketplace that we do NOT permit from those who do.

We are not a "winner take all society".

You are perfectly free to dislike this fact about the American economy,
and you are welcome to move to some other country where they love
monopolism, anarchism, and corporate hegemony.  Except I think
America is the closest you're going to get to that, actually.
Tough luck there.

Meanwhile, the majority of people in this country are of
the opinion that this is a reasonable degree of economic
moderation.  So, get used to it.

Besides, no one ever argued that anti-competitive behavior
was ethically or morally acceptable even when it *is* legal.
You are the only one I've seen make that claim.  We only
assert however, that such behavior is *illegal* when the
perpetrator has monopoly power over the marketplace. This
is reasonable, because we may rely on market forces to
remove non-monopolists who try these tactics. The anti-trust
laws are there to protect us from a *failure* of the market
economy, which is what a monopoly is. Whether it is legal or
illegal is irrelevant -- capitalism has *failed* when a single
competitor beats all other competition and controls the marketplace,
because the market is then no longer free. We can respond either
through anti-trust laws, in an attempt to restore a capitalist
free market; or we can nationalize the company and put it under
taxpayer control (the latter solution is more popular in Europe,
but as a proponent of capitalism myself, I prefer the anti-trust
solution).  Its nonsensical to talk about free market rules in
a monopoly situation, because in that situation there IS NO
free market -- only a market controlled by the monopolist. Just
because the monopolist isn't a government doesn't make it any
better than a communist centrally controlled economy. Except
of course, that at *least* a government monopoly has a basis
*in principle* for serving the needs of society, which you
quite rightly argue that a corporation needn't have.

It might be nice to live in a fantasy dreamworld where
capitalism never fails, but the reality is that without
controlled boundary conditions, market failure is pretty
much inevitable.  That's why governments set boundary
conditions on the marketplace through legal regulation.

Too much regulation chokes the economy and makes massive
inefficiencies, but too little is just as bad.

Capitalist free markets *work* because it is an (interesting
and non-intuitive) fact that *many selfish people* are
collectively more efficient and fair that *one representative
power*. But *one selfish power* is far worse than either --
and that's what we call a "monopoly".

You are *somewhat* justified to question the choice of
market segmentation that makes Microsoft a monopoly, except
that 1) it IS a natural division in terms of customers, outlets,
advertising channels, and distribution, 2) it IS the way Microsoft
itself divides its services, 3) judged by people affected instead
of dollars exchanged, it would still be a monopoly overall even
if you included servers and other types of computers, and
4) hairsplitting or not it was that courts job to determine that
division, and they have ruled (end of story).  You may feel that
that was a discretionary decision, but it remains a fact that it
WAS at their discretion, not yours.

I don't really expect you to absorb this information, because
you are so obviously opposed to facing this reality, but
I also think it's dangerous to let extremists go unchallenged,
lest they be believed to lack opposition.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 23:28:54 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:28:54 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m33bn1cwjm.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1E4B0F898Bcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

joe at invalid.address wrote:
 
> Thanks for spelling it out for me. Now could you spell out what this
> has to do with Microsoft's intentions?

Making sure that even if there is a move of applications locally to running 
on the web, that they are selling 80% of the software that makes it happen.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Sun Oct 16 00:10:46 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:10:46 -0400
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
Message-ID: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Is it possible to convert a very long list of strings to a list of floats in
a single statement ?

I have tried float(x) and float(x[:]) but neither work. I guess I would have
to write a loop if there isn't a way.


From no.offline.contact.please at nospam.com  Sun Oct 16 10:11:52 2005
From: no.offline.contact.please at nospam.com (Rhino)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:11:52 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<mO74f.8726$vD4.549587@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4mi4f.28813$Ge5.16418@fe10.lga>
Message-ID: <Ict4f.73$ns3.31539@news20.bellglobal.com>


"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne at attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4mi4f.28813$Ge5.16418 at fe10.lga...
> Rhino wrote:
> > Everyone
> > else was still using typewriters - which was IBM's bread and butter in
those
> > days - for their business needs.
>
> Oh dear, no. Not quite. There were, going back decades, machines that
> used punched cards, relays, stepper wheels, and punched cards. It was
> /that/ that was the foundation of IBM's business, and IBM had an
> effective monopoly. This was not altogether due to evil; their one
> competitor, Remington Rand, made machines that were slightly better, but
> had to be factory-programmed, whereas IBM's machines used panels full of
> jumper wires, and the panels themselves could be swapped, so that you
> could have a "program library" of prewired panels. Which would /you/ buy?
>
> Remington Rand made a similar mistake with computers. They wouldn't give
> you a programming manual until you contracted to buy the bloody thing.
> IBM pulled ahead of them during the year when Univac computers were real
> and IBM computers weren't, and they never looked back.
>
Sorry, my mistake. I knew that IBM had collators and such things back in
those days but I didn't know what percentage of their business they
comprised. I used to work with a long-time IBMer who had started out in
marketing in the 60s or so and I got the impression from him that
typewriters were still the bulk of IBM's business. Perhaps he was just in
that division and didn't know the "big picture".

My apologies for inadvertently misleading anyone. These events took place
before my time so I probably should have researched more before making those
remarks.

Rhino




From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 14:20:33 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 11:20:33 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130350833.334697.60490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

All I can add to this is:

- don't use SAX unless your document is huge
- don't use DOM unless someone is putting a gun to your head

There's a good selection of nice and simple XML processing libraries in
python. You could start with ElementTree.



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 19:16:06 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:16:06 -0400
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<8je6f.5358$q%.1645@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <86mzl2sbpl.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:

> I feel fairly stupid ... but to my defense in the past 17 years of coding,
> i've only spent 3 days looking at web stuff:
>
> I now can understand how "writing" to an existing form field from a cgi
> script might not work: how would the browser know ?: unless there is a very
> sophisticated scheme there (as those used in image transfer), I assume the
> complete page would have to be sent back: so might as well
> regenerate/rewrite everything.
>
> Yes ?
>
> I so, I'm back to finding a way for a browser plugin and a server based cgi
> script to exchange information.
>
> Any idea welcome... I know I don't want to open another socket/port but
> stick to http:80

Then you're out of luck. You can't even depend on their being an open
http connection available to use when the plugin runs. The browser may
well do: Load all data. Close connections. Render page as far as we
can. Launch code objects that we loaded.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct 18 19:12:44 2005
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:12:44 -0700
Subject: How to get listed on planet.python.org
Message-ID: <A77618B80CDD2543B705C82B7665D9F901F5D26F@ex9.hostedexchange.local>

Shane Hathaway wrote:
> I've been writing Python-related articles on my weblog, and I thought 
> planet.python.org might be interested in including them.  Does anyone 
> know how to submit a feed to the aggregator?
> 
> http://hathawaymix.org/Weblog/rss20.xml?categories:list=Python

I'm pretty sure you should just email webmaster at python.org with your
request.


Robert Brewer
System Architect
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From norm at normgoertzen.com  Wed Oct  5 11:38:44 2005
From: norm at normgoertzen.com (norm at normgoertzen.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 08:38:44 -0700
Subject: Python Newbie
Message-ID: <1128526724.904832.278270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm learning Python now and I'm really pleased with everything so far,
however,  at some point I'll want to develop a Windows application (no
other OS at this point).  The question are:
    1. What toolkit is best for Windows development?
    2. Which toolkits can I exclude from consideration?
    3. What toolkit is most popular for Windows development?
    4. Are there any impartial reviews of these packages anywhere?

The list includes:
    wxPython
    pyQt
    pyGTk+
    pyFLTK
    FOX
    OpenGL
    PythonWin

Thanks,
Norm



From rrr at ronadam.com  Tue Oct 18 13:12:30 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:12:30 GMT
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
In-Reply-To: <1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Chris Lasher wrote:
> Thanks for your responses, guys. I can't get the PIDA page to come up
> for me; server timeout error. I'll have to look into Eclipse more, but
> I've been warned that it's resource greedy and that the VI plugin
> doesn't provide very much functionality. Still, that's hearsay, so I'll
> have to find out for myself.
> 
> I would have figured Vim or VI editing behavior would be a lot more
> prevalent in IDEs but it seems to be quite rare. I don't understand
> that, because a lot of people seem to use IDEs, and a lot of people
> seem to use VI/Vim or Emacs. Is it the young guns that are tied to the
> IDEs, never knowing powerful text-editors exist, and old dogs sticking
> to their favorite editors, not giving in to all those "distracting"
> bells and whistles of IDEs? What's the deal? A marriage of the two
> would seem like the best of both worlds.
> 
> Chris

What features are you looking for.  I think most Vim users just add what 
they want to Vim.

Here's what I use to launch a script and capture the output into a read 
only panel.  I think it may still needs a little fine tuning.  This is 
on windows, but it should work on linux with some minor changes.

Cheers,
    Ron


Add this to your python.vim file in your ftplugin directory.

" Run a python script and get the output into a window.
set switchbuf=useopen
function! RunPython(rmode)
     if a:rmode=='wnd'
         " Run in python shell and capture the
         "   output to a vim buffer window.
         execute "w!"
         if bufnr("python_stdout") >0
             exe "sb python_stdout"
         else
             exe 'split python_stdout'
         endif
         setlocal noswapfile
         set buftype=nofile
         setlocal modifiable
         normal ggdG
         silent! exe 'r!python #'
         setlocal nomodified
         set filetype=txt
         normal 1G
     elseif a:rmode=='ext'
         " Execute script in python shell
         execute "w!"
         !start python -i %
     else
         " Open an interactive shell
         !start python
     endif
endfunction

" Add keymap to run and open console
map <F12> :call RunPython("wnd")<cr>
map <S-F12> :call RunPython("ext")<cr><cr>
map <c-F12> :call RunPython("psh")<cr><cr>
imap <F12> <C-\><C-N>:call RunPython("wnd")<cr>:star<cr>
imap <S-F12> <C-\><C-N>:call RunPython("ext")<cr><cr>:star<cr>
imap <c-F12> <C-\><C-N>:call RunPython("psh")<cr><cr>:star<cr>


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 29 18:49:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:49:02 +1100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.29.22.49.02.45985@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:08:09 +0000, Tim Roberts wrote:

>>In any case, you are assuming that Python will automagically close the
>>file when you are done.
> 
> Nonsense.  This behavior is deterministic.  At the end of that line, the
> anonymous file object out of scope, the object is deleted, and the file is
> closed.

That is an implementation detail. CPython may do that, but JPython does
not -- or at least it did not last time I looked. JPython doesn't
guarantee that the file will be closed at any particular time, just that
it will be closed eventually.

If all goes well. What if you have a circular dependence and the file
reference never gets garbage-collected? What happens if the JPython
process gets killed before the file is closed? You might not care about
one file not being released, but what if it is hundreds of files?

In general, it is best practice to release external resources as soon as
you're done with them, and not rely on a garbage collector which may or
may not release them in a timely manner.

There are circumstances where things do not go well and the file never
gets closed cleanly -- for example, when your disk is full, and the
buffer is only written to disk when you close the file. Would you
prefer that error to raise an exception, or to pass silently? If you want
close exceptions to pass silently, then by all means rely on the garbage
collector to close the file.

You might not care about these details in a short script -- when I'm
writing a use-once-and-throw-away script, that's what I do. But it isn't
best practice: explicit is better than implicit.

I should also point out that for really serious work, the idiom:

f = file("parrot")
handle(f)
f.close()

is insufficiently robust for production level code. That was a detail I
didn't think I needed to drop on the original newbie poster, but depending
on how paranoid you are, or how many exceptions you want to insulate the
user from, something like this might be needed:

try:
    f = file("parrot")
    try:
        handle(f)
    finally:
        try:
            f.close()
        except:
            print "The file could not be closed; see your sys admin."
except:
    print "The file could not be opened."


-- 
Steven.



From http  Mon Oct 31 21:07:25 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 18:07:25 -0800
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>
	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2713.1130709910.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3smn47FoolfbU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2737.1130771558.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3snboiFolt77U1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2754.1130806889.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x7jbt9l42.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:
> Closing off this particular one would make it harder to get benefit of
> non-C implementations of Python, so it has been judged "not worth it".
> I think I agree with that judgement.

The right fix is PEP 343.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 09:56:16 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:56:16 +0100
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di5upm$ca8$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> Sorry Fredrik but I don't understand. Just comment out the assert and
> you have different results depending on whether an unrelated sort
> function is defined.
> This seems weird to me !
> 
Perhaps you don't understand what's going on. The test

     obj in excluded

is succeeding for all your objects because all instances of the OBJ 
class compare equal, and so the assert is failing for the ones that 
don;t actually appear in the "excluded" list.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 28 19:25:36 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:25:36 +1000
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4361e8f5$0$32420$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<1130502180.688390.207960@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.28.23.25.35.471044@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 05:23:00 -0700, dcrespo wrote:

>> I think it would be time for you to read the Fine Manual...
> 
> hi, thanks for your answer... I really did it the same way you
> suggested, but I forgot to tell you that I wanted to get a better way
> for doing it.

What was wrong with the way you used?

Was it too easy to understand? Not difficult enough? Too few bugs?

You could try something like this:

def substitute(D):
    L = D.keys()[:]
    i = 0
    while (i < len(L)) is True:
        key = L[i]
        if D[key] == None:
            D[key] = 'Null'
        else:
            del L[i]
        i = i + 1
    return D


D = {'item1': None, 'item2': 23, 'item3': 42, 'item4': None, 'item5': 15}

print substitute(D) 

gives {'item1': 'Null', 'item2': 23, 'item3': 42, 'item4': 'Null',
'item5': 15} as needed.

And I really, really hope this is of no hope whatsoever! ;-)



-- 
Steven



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Tue Oct 18 03:23:41 2005
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:23:41 +0200
Subject: Dynamic generation of doc-strings of dynamically generated classes
In-Reply-To: <1h4l2qe.x03vg9pqtqbcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <dj04bq$5os$1@news.island.liu.se>
	<1h4l2qe.x03vg9pqtqbcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dj27ts$rtn$1@news.island.liu.se>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> The best way to make classes on the fly is generally to call the
> metaclass with suitable parameters (just like, the best way to make
> instances of any type is generally to call that type):
> 
> derived = type(base)('derived', (base,), {'__doc__': 'zipp'})

and George Sakkis said something similar.

Thanks, both of you. As I expected, there was a much better way than my 
clumsy way. Anyway, this took me to section 3.3.3 in the reference 
manual, and that will help me further.

Thanks again. Back to the keyboard!

/MiO


From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 00:42:32 2005
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (gsteff)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 21:42:32 -0700
Subject: ANN: formulaic 0.1
Message-ID: <1130042552.069659.96160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I've been working on a form generation toolkit that integrates well
with FormEncode... its still under heavy development, of course, but
I've seen a lot of discussion of this topic on various mailing lists
over the past few days, and so wanted to get something out.  Release
early and all that.  So you can get it from

https://developer.berlios.de/project/showfiles.php?group_id=4967

There's a README with a tutorial in there, which is also provided as a
friendlier README.html.  It requires FormEncode (I developed with
FormEncode 0.22, but I expect it will work with older versions).
Current features include default values, intelligent detection and
rendering of "required" fields, extensive facilities for customization
of the output markup, etc.  Mainly, I've tried to make it easy to use.

I'm a Cherrypy guy, and so aimed it at use with that; it should be
perfectly usable with TurboGears too (although its largely orthagonal
to the (problematic) way that TurboGears currently encourages you to
use forms).  Really, its usable with any framework that lets you access
form submissions as a python dict.

For a really quick intro, I've pasted the contents of a sample script
that uses formulaic below, along with the output that script would
produce.

Its nowhere remotely near finished, of course, but hopefully is at a a
point that it can be useful for real world work.  Questions,
suggestions, etc. are extraordinarily welcome.

Greg

example.py
-------------
#!/usr/bin/python

from formencode import validators
from formencode.api import Invalid

from formulaic import forms
from formulaic import basicwidgets as widgets

form = forms.RequirementsForm()
form.attrs['id'] = 'myform'

form['age'] = widgets.TextInput(validators.Int(), 'Age')
form['age'].attrs = {'size':'4', 'maxlength':'3'}

colors = ['Red', 'Green', 'Blue']
form['favcolor'] = widgets.Select(validators.OneOf(colors), 'Favorite
color', options=colors)

form['pie'] = widgets.CheckboxInput(validators.Bool(), 'I like pie')

inputs = {'age':'ten', 'favcolor':'Green', 'pie':'checked'}

try:
    data = form.schema.to_python(inputs)
    print data
except Invalid, error:
    print form.render(inputs, error.error_dict)

-----------------

output:

<form action="" method="POST" id="myform">

<label class="required">Age</label>
<input type="text" name="age" value="ten"/>
<span class="error">Please enter an integer value</span>

<label class="required">Favorite color</label>
<select type="text" name="favcolor">
<option value="Red">Red</option>
<option selected="selected" value="Green">Green</option>
<option value="Blue">Blue</option>
</select>

<label>I like pie</label>
<input type="text" checked="checked" name="pie"/>

<input type="submit" value="Submit"/>

</form>



From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Sat Oct  1 12:05:54 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 09:05:54 -0700
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Oops:

http://artyprog.noip.org:8080



From http  Thu Oct 13 07:08:02 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 04:08:02 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de> <7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1995.1129200812.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x4q7l3ca5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> Until someone does the experiment this stuff is bound to be
> speculation (what's that saying about "premature optimization"?). 

40 years of practical Lisp implementation efforts and around the globe
and hundreds of published papers on the subject might not be directly
Python-specific, but they're not what I'd call a total vacuum of
experimental results.

> But I can foresee that there'd be problems at the outer edges of the
> language: for example, sys.maxint would have to be reduced, and this
> in turn would lead to reduction in, for example, the theoretical
> maximum length of sequences.

if we're talking about 1 tag bit, sys.maxint would be 2**30-1 at the
lowest, which means the objects in the sequence would have to be
smaller than 4 bytes each if more than sys.maxint of them are supposed
to fit in a 32-bit address space.  Since we're using 4-byte pointers,
that can't happen.  We may have a worse problem by running out of
virtual address space if we use a copying GC.  Of course, on a 64-bit
cpu, this all becomes irrelevant.


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 20:28:28 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:28:28 -0400
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<KFc6f.5081$q%.3357@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86vezqscfq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<08f6f.6361$7h7.3176@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <86irvqs8cz.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
> Mike Meyer wrote:
>> I don't know much about plugins.  I believe they get started when the
>> page loads, which gives you a chance to do the authentication when you
>> want it done.
> Well not in this case actually: the user triggers the plugin which in turn
> open the url, so the connection is "owned" by the plugin

I think we don't mean the same thing when we say "plugin". To me, a
plugin is a bit of code that gets executed when the page is rendered
to provide custom content with it's own behavior. Flash is probably
the most popular example. Like I said, I don't know much about
plugins, so they may be usable in other ways.

>> That won't work very well. HTML goes to the client to display. The
>> server can put data in hidden form elements that code running on the
>> client side can get to - and change - via the document object model
>> (DOM). However, the only way to send the changed data back to the
>> server is to get the client to submit the form. You can automate that,
>> but the results will be disconcerting to the user: they load a page,
>> and it reloads multiple times as the plugin exchanges data with the
>> server.
> Here again, I'm not dying for any page data to be visible: cannot the cgi
> script and the plugin do their business before that ?

Not if you're using plugin as defined above. Pretty much anything that
happens on the browser end is triggered by things happening in HTML -
which means it has to be displayed. I don't know of any way to
download something to the browser to run without rendering *something*
in the browser window - even if it's only a blank plage.

>> The problem with this is that the apache<->browser connection isn't
>> "a" connection, it's a series of HTTP request/repsonse
>> pairs. Originally, this implied tearing down and setting up a TCP
>> connection for every request. Modern software will leave the link open
>> and reuse it - but modern software also tends to have multiple
>> connetions open, so it can fetch images and other embedded objects in
>> parallel.
> I'm lost here, better do some more reading

HTTP is a stateless protocol. Every HTTP request goes the same: the
client sends a request saying what object it wants from the
server. The server reads the request, and sends back the response,
which is a collection of HTTP headers and a string of bytes. There's
lots more details invovled, and various things you can do to enhance
the performance of the system, but functionally they all boil down to
that.

>> You can make this work, but doing it like that requires making
>> multiple HTTP requests via the browser, which will be
>> disconcerting. I'd recommend taking the browser out of the loop. Have
>> the plugin talk directly to the server to do the
>> authentication. That's what the latest web buzzword (AJAX) does:
>> client-side software makes independent requests of the server (or
>> *any* server) to get data, and possibly updates the document the
>> browser is viewing as a result of that.
> Here I think it's OK as the plugin can "talk" to server prior to the browser
> showing anything.

If you say so. But certainly not through the browser.

>> So here's a scenario: the first cgi script gets info from the smart
>> card that puts it in a hidden form element and sends the page to the
>> browser. The plugin - started when the page loads - uses the DOM to
>> get that data, then makes an *independent* HTTP request to the server,
>> thus passing whatever it generated from the data in the form field to
>> a second cgi script. This happens several times, then the plugin
>> changes the HTML form to put whatever the cgi script generated into
>> the form, so that when the user finally submits the form, the third
>> cgi script - the one that handles the submitted form - sees the data
>> from the second script.
>> Actually, the exchanges between the plugin and the server don't need
>> to be HTTP requests. If you've got this working over some other TCP
>> protocol, there's no reason you can't keep doing it that way.
> Maybe that's my clue: can a cgi script, once triggered by a (let's say) POST
> request, use back and forth file transfer with the client ? through the
> _existing_ connection.

I honestly don't know. HTTP does a strict onetime turnaround - the
client sends, then the server sends, then you're done. There are hooks
in the protocol to allow a connection to be resused, but that's a
different request/response pair, and generally handled by the server,
not the cgi script. After all, the next request from the client may be
for some static file instead of the output of a cgi script.

Having a cgi script start two-way communications on the connection may
well work. But it won't be HTTP, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if
one or more of the components in some web connections - proxies,
caches, firewalls, etc. - choked on it. You're liable to get
apparently random failures depending on all kinds of exotic things.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jarrod.roberson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 13:11:22 2005
From: jarrod.roberson at gmail.com (fuzzylollipop)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 10:11:22 -0700
Subject: simple send only command line jabber client in python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2564.1130277931.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130275939.113598.194000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2564.1130277931.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130346682.722746.164510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

thanks, I found that but I can't get it to work with the server I am
using. I installed the lastest verison of the Jive Messaging Server and
it just won't authenticate against it. All my desktop clients work with
it, I can't get xmppy to work on OSX or Linux.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct 25 10:18:37 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 14:18:37 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlbnq$6jm$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <slrndlsflt.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-25, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> It *is* a definition of an ordering.
>> 
>> For something to be an ordering it has to be anti symmetric and transitive.
>> 
>> The subset relationships on sets conform to these conditions so it is a (partial)
>> ordering. Check your mathematic books, Why you would think this is abuse is beyond me
>
> Which is exactly why a < b on sets returns True xor False, but cmp(a,b) 
> throws an exception.

I don't see the conection.

The documentation states that cmp(a,b) will return a negative value if
a < b. So why should it throw an exception?

> a <COMPARE> b is a local comparison, asking only for the relationship 
> between two elements.  In some bases, like the complex numbers, some 
> comparisons are ill-defined.; in others, like sets, they're well-defined 
>   but don't give a total ordering.
>
> cmp(a,b) asks for their relative rankings in some total ordering.

The documentation doesn't state that. I also didn't find anything in
the documentation on how the programmer should code in order to
enforce this.

So someone who just use the rich comparisons to implement his
partial order will screw up this total order that cmp is somehow
providing.

And cmp doesn't provide a total ordering anyway. Sets are clearly
uncomparable using cmp, so cmp doesn't provide a total order.

Maybe the original idea was that cmp provided some total ordering,
maybe the general idea is that cmp should provide a total ordering,
but that is not documented, nor is there any documentation in
helping the programmer in this. 

And even if we leave sets aside it still isn't true.

>>> from decimal import Decimal
>>> Zero = Decimal(0)
>>> cmp( ( ) , Zero)
-1
>>> cmp(Zero, 1)
-1
>>> cmp(1, ( ) )
-1


> For a 
> space that does not have a total ordering, cmp(a,b) is meaningless at 
> best and dangerous at worst.

The current specs and implemantation are.

I see nothing wrong with a function that would provide four kinds of
results when given two elements. The same results as cmp gives now
when it applies and None or other appropiate value or a raised
exception when not.

Given how little this functionality differs from the current cmp,
I don't see why it couldn't replace the current cmp.

> It /should/ throw an exception when the 
> results of cmp aren't well-defined, consistent, antisymmetric, and 
> transitive.

That an order is not total in no way implies any of the above.
The order on sets is well-defined, consistent, antisymmetric
and transitive.

Python may not be able to handle it in a well-defined, consistent
manner, but that is IMO a problem of python not of partial orders.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 16:44:29 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:44:29 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <200510071528.25305.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<di5a0b$ag0$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510071528.25305.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <di6mn3$4mp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Terry Hancock wrote:
> On Friday 07 October 2005 03:01 am, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>OK, so how do you account for the execresence "That will give you a 
>>savings of 20%", which usage is common in America?
> 
> 
> In America, anyway, "savings" is a collective abstract noun 
> (like "physics" or "mechanics"), there's no such
> noun as "saving" (that's present participle of "to save"
> only).  How did you expect that sentence to be rendered?
> Why is it an "execresence"?
> 
Precisely because there *is* such a thing as a saving. If I buy a $100 
gumball for $80 I have achieved a saving of 20%.

> By the way, dict.org doesn't think "execresence" is a word,
> although I interpret the neologism as meaning something like 
> "execrable utterance":
> 
> dict.org said:
> 
>>No definitions found for 'execresence'!
> 
> 
Nonetheless, Google finds 369 hits for "execrescence" and 67 for 
"execresence".

My Complete Oxford is still packed in a cardboard box, so I can't offer 
any more convincing evidence.

If there isn't such a word, all I can say is there *ought* to be :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From pas at despam  Wed Oct 12 05:00:46 2005
From: pas at despam (gg)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:00:46 +0200
Subject: crosswords helper program
Message-ID: <434cd0b3$0$5378$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

I plan to write a program in Python in order to help me doing 
crosswords, I was wondering if such a program already existed.

Basically it will get the number of letters of the word (5, 10, 12...) 
then the letters known (B in second letter, E in 5th letter...) and then 
search in a dictionary the words matching this criteria

Regards

Gerard


From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Oct 18 04:00:51 2005
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:00:51 +0000
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Robin Becker a ?crit :
> 
>> Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need 
>> to create another class with the property changed?
> 
> 
> Do you mean attributes or properties ?

I mean property here. My aim was to create an ObserverProperty class 
that would allow adding and subtracting of set/get observers. My current 
implementation works fine for properties on the class, but when I need 
to specialize an instance I find it's quite hard.

-- 
Robin Becker


From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Wed Oct  5 07:18:18 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:48:18 +0530
Subject: Confused with module and .py files
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4D@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


Sorry guys for that .py in import.
It was typing mistake.

Extremely sorry

regards
prasad chandrasekaran




















--- Cancer cures smoking

#-----Original Message-----
#From: Steve Holden [mailto:steve at holdenweb.com]
#Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:43 PM
#To: python-list at python.org
#Subject: Re: Confused with module and .py files
#
#Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
#> Actually I am bit confused between the modules and .py file
#> How do I differentiate between the 2.
#>
#> For example
#> I have a file import1.py, import2.py file
#> Which has few functions and classes
#> And if I have a class with same name "BaseClass" in both the file
#>
#> How would I use it if I declare it as given below in my 3rd class
#>
#> from import1.py import *
#> from import2.py import *
#>
#You can't do that. The "from module import *" mechanism explicitly
#defines names in the importing module's namespace, so if you use this
#technique to import two modules that define the same name you will
#inevitably find that the second import overwrites the duplicate name
#imported by the first import.
#
#Note also that the ".py" should not be included in the import statement
#- the interpreter finds the appropriate code from the module name, so
#you should anyway be doing something like
#
#   from import2 import *
#   from import2 import *
#
#It would be much better, though, to write:
#
#   import import1
#   import import2
#
#Then you can refer to import1.BaseClass and import2.baseClass without
#getting any naming conflicts. In general the "from module import *"
form
#should only be used under specific conditions, which we needn't discuss
#here now.
#
#regards
#  Steve
#--
#Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
#Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
#PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/
#


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 21:21:47 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:21:47 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1h4s749.ymflktenta21N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Amol Vaidya <mynewsa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have been
> debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. How do these compare and contrast
> with one another, and what advantages does one language provide over the
> other? I would like to consider as many opinions as I can on this matter
> before I start studying either language in depth. Any help/comments are
> greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. 

Within the panorama of existing languages, Python and Ruby are just
about as similar as two languages independently developed are likely to
get (and then some -- there is clearly some minor mutual influence, e.g.
Ruby probably picked 'def' for function definition partly-because that's
what Python uses, and later Python may have picked 'yield' for
generators partly-because that's what Ruby uses to have a method
interact with a block it gets passed).  They address the same niches and
share most of the same strengths (and minor weaknesses).

Pragmatically, Python is more mature -- with all sort of consequences,
e.g., Python will be faster for many tasks (more time has been spent on
optimizing it), more third-party libraries and tools are available, etc,
but the Python community may be less easy to "get into" than the newer,
smaller Ruby one, for example.

Here's a tiny script showing some similarities and differences:

def f()
  i = 0
  while i < 1000000
    j = 923567 + i
    i += 1
  end
end

f()

comment out the 'end' statements, and at colons at the end of the def
and while statements, and this is also valid Python.  On my iBook...:

Helen:~ alex$ time ruby -w tim.rb 

real    0m5.367s
user    0m5.129s
sys     0m0.041s

while:

Helen:~ alex$ time python tim.py

real    0m1.078s
user    0m0.953s
sys     0m0.063s

Note that this is NOT the normal way to loop in either language, so do
NOT read too much into the reported times -- a 5:1 ratio is NOT normally
observed on real tasks, though it IS reasonably normal for Python to be
somewhat faster.  BTW, this is Python 2.4.1 and Ruby 1.8.2.

I'm pretty sure that the Ruby community at some point will go through
much the same exercise the Python one did in the several years spent on
the transitions 2.2 -> 2.3 -> 2.4 -- reduce the amount of change in the
language and library and focus most development effort on optimization
instead.  I know of no intrinsic reason why Ruby and Python should not
deliver just about equal performance for similar tasks, though the
current implementations may not be equivalent (yet) from this POV.

Python in recent years moved to enhance its object model (making it in
some ways closer to Ruby) and iteration abilities (ditto), while Ruby
moved to shed more and more of its Perl legacy (though in both cases
legacy issues may have slowed down progress a little bit, yet for both
languages the direction is clear).  This makes the two languages more
similar and to some extent interchangeable.

Ruby has acquired a framework ("Ruby on Rails") that makes it very
desirable to implement database-backed web sites; while Python's running
hot after it (e.g. with Django), for this specific task Rails is better
today (e.g., you can get good _books_ about Rails, but not yet about
Django).  "Ruby Gems" is a good package management system that is fully
operational today; again, Python's catching up, but it's not there yet.

For other things, Python's existing base of third-party extensions and
tools is above Ruby's.  For example, Numeric (and numarray and scipy,
etc) make Python excellent for heavy-duty number crunching, and I do not
know of Ruby equivalents in this area; Twisted is a great framework for
asynchronous network programming, and, again, it's a Python advantage;
and so on, and so forth.  However, there is a downside: for some tasks
(e.g., web-site frameworks) Python has _too many_ good 3rd party
extensions available, making it hard to choose among them!

We can proceed to compare the languages themselves.  Many differences
are minor and cosmetic.  Typically, Python is more specific, giving you
fewer cosmetic choices: e.g., you must use parentheses in defining and
calling functions, while, in Ruby, parentheses are optional (though
often recommended) for these same tasks.  Ruby's approach of having
everything be an object on the same plane, infinitely modifiable until
and unless explicitly frozen, is more regular, while Python's approach
of giving slightly special status to built-in types and making them not
modifiable dynamically is slightly less regular but may be more
pragmatic.  OTOH, Python's approach to "callable objects" (essentially
making them all fully interchangeable) is the more regular of the two.
Ruby's approach to iteration (passing the code block into a method) is
essentially equivalent to Python's (iterators and generators), with
several minor advantages and disadvantages on either side.  One could go
on for quite a long time, but to some extent these are all minor
quibbles, nothing really earth-shaking in the mix.  Writing Ruby
extensions in C is slightly easier (thanks to mark-and-sweep garbage
collecton, mostly), but Python offers many alternatives (e.g., pyrex)...

Personally, I'm happy to stick with Python, but I keep studying Ruby
when new books &c about it come out (I'm biased, having written Python
books, but the Ruby books from the "pragmatic programmers" are also
quite good ones, no two ways about it).  I think that if you try both
and consider accurately all the uses you may want to put them to, you'll
most probably be happy with either... or both!


Alex


From dwahler at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:23:03 2005
From: dwahler at gmail.com (David  Wahler)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:23:03 -0700
Subject: threading/forking and IPC
In-Reply-To: <1129324184.818503.7760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129324184.818503.7760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129324983.191413.183680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Sophia Cao wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am seeking a python solution for my project.  I am trying to
> implement an architecture where there is a server who receives incoming
> messages from several clients, then those messages need to be written
> to a MySQL database.  To avoid too many connections to the database, I
> plan to save the incoming messages into a queue, while use a seperate
> process/thread to constantly monitoring the queue and storing the
> messages to the database.  I am not sure wheather I should use
> threading or forking and how to implement the sharing of this message
> queue.
>
> Thanks a lot for any advice.

If you want to have a shared queue, it's much easier and simpler to use
threading, as it allows you to share data structures between threads.
Python already has a multithreaded queue class -- see
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-Queue.html. Just create a global
Queue object or pass each thread a reference to it, and they can all
share it.

-- David



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 03:58:28 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:58:28 +0200
Subject: testing for modules?
References: <d1bf1fa20510241456r34f47c3eoe71271482babcb49__12380.5262534463$1130224346$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djkoj4$qom$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ed Hotchkiss wrote:

> i have a generic script that is using several modules on windows and linux
> boxes. i need to have the scripts test if a module is installed, and then if
> not - then to install the module. can anyone give me a headsup on how to
> test for a module, returning something to indicate whether or not it is
> installed, then after that executing file to install the module.?

if the modules behave nicely, and don't do silly stuff when first imported,
something like

    try:
        import mymodule
    except ImportError:
        install_module("mymodule")
        import mymodule # retry

usually works.

if you have lots of modules, you can use something like

    MODULES = "mymodule", "myothermodule", "sys"

    for module in MODULES:
        try:
            __import__(module)
        except ImportError:
            install_module(module)

    ...

    import mymodule # will fail if installation failed
    import myothermodule, sys

    ....

</F> 





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Oct 11 18:42:36 2005
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy (Tim))
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:42:36 +1000
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
Message-ID: <2773CAC687FD5F4689F526998C7E4E5F4DB6C6@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> (there is no common Python type on which you can both call
>> len(...) AND the .next() method, for example -- a combination
>> which really makes no sense).
> 
>>>> L = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> len(L)
> 3
>>>> I = iter(L)
>>>> I
> <listiterator object at 0x0091ABD0>
>
> (it's probably not a good idea to rely on this behaviour...)

Absolutely not - this has recently been discussed on python-dev, and
Guido regrets that __len__ is exposed on any of the built-in iterators.
This behaviour may well change in future versions.

Tim Delaney


From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 14:14:28 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Clint Norton)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 11:14:28 -0700
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
Message-ID: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
    I'm a student currently in the beginning of my master's degree and
I'm searching for an interesting open source project written in Python
to contribute to.
    I have worked as a programmer for the past few years (mostly in
academia but also as a typical full time code monkey in a commercial
company), some of it in python, some in Java (commercial companies
really seem to like Java).
    Anyway, which python projects would be a good start? I generally
like working on algorithmic parts or "Business Logic" and really don't
like doing interface work. The software I like producing has a tendency
to make use of the random and/or math modules, if that says something
about the nature of the work I've done... I really want to give
something back to the community I've taken so much from in the past.

Thanks in advance.



From robic0 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 20 06:22:34 2005
From: robic0 at yahoo.com (robic0 at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:22:34 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9rrel1t1emp7l1f3geb0bnoh0o44kk0qld@4ax.com>

On 14 Oct 2005 19:01:42 -0700, "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:
I think this guy should run for President. Anybody says M$oft 
is trying to screw the little guy is "alright" in my book.
>Microsoft Hatred, FAQ
>
>Xah Lee, 20020518
>
>    Question: U.S. Judges are not morons, and quite a few others are
>not morons. They find MS guilty, so it must be true.
>
>Answer: so did the German population thought Jews are morons by
>heritage, to the point that Jews should be exterminated from earth.
>Apparently, the entire German population cannot be morons, they must be
>right.
>
>Judge for yourself, is a principle i abide by. And when you judge, it
>is better to put some effort into it.
>
>How much you invest in this endearvor depends on how important the
>issue is to you. If you are like most people, for which the issue of
>Microsoft have remote effect on your personal well-being, then you can
>go out and buy a case of beer on one hand and pizza on the other, and
>rap with your online confabulation buddies about how evil is MS. If you
>are an author writing a book on this, then obviously its different
>because your reputation and ultimately daily bread depend on what you
>put down. If you are a MS competitor such as Apple or Sun, then
>obviously you will see to it with as much money as you can cough out
>that MS is guilty by all measures and gets put out of business. If you
>are a government employee such as a judge, of course it is your
>interest to please your boss, with your best accessment of the air.
>
>When i judge things, i like to imagine things being serious, as if my
>wife is a wager, my daughter is at stake, that any small factual error
>or mis-judgement or misleading perspective will cause unimaginable
>things to happen. Then, my opinions becomes better ones.
>
>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
>
>A: Now suppose there is a very ethical company E, whose products have
>the best performance/price ratio, and making all the competitors
>looking so majorly stupid and ultimately won over 90% of the market as
>decided by consumers. Is E now a monopoly? Apparently, beer drinkers
>and pizza eaters needs to study a bit on the word monopoly, from the
>perspectives of language to history to law. If they have some extra
>time, they can sharpen views from philosophy & logic contexts as well.
>
>    Q: What about all the people in the corporate environments who are
>forced to use MS products and aren't allowed the option/choice to use
>Mac/Linux/UNIX?
>
>A: Kick your boss's ass, or, choose to work for a company who have
>decisions that you liked.
>
>    Q: What about MS buying out all competitors?
>
>A: Microsoft offered me $1 grand for saying good things about them.
>They didn't put a gunpoint on my head. I CHOOSE to take the bribe.
>Likewise, sold companies can and have decided what's best for them.
>It's nothing like under gunpoint.
>
>    Q: Microsoft forced computer makers to not install competitor's
>applications or OSes.
>
>A: It is free country. Don't like MS this or that? Fuck MS and talk to
>the Solaris or BeOS or AIX or HP-UX or Apple or OS/2 or Amiga or NeXT
>or the Linuxes with their free yet fantastically easy-to-use and
>network-spamming X-Windows. Bad business prospects? Then grab the
>opportunity and become an entrepreneur and market your own beats-all
>OS. Too difficult? Let's sue Microsoft!
>
>    Q: Microsoft distributed their Internet Explorer web browser free,
>using their ?monopoly? power to put Netscape out of business.
>
>A: entirely inane coding monkeys listen: It takes huge investment to
>give away a quality software free. Netscape can give away Operating
>Systems free to put MS out of business too. Nobody is stopping Sun
>Microsystem from giving Java free, or BeOS a browser free, or Apple to
>bundle QuickTime deeply with their OS free.
>
>Not to mention that Netscape is worse than IE in just about every
>version till they become the OpenSource mozilla shit and eventually
>bought out by AOL and still shit.
>
>? Netscape struggles, announced open browser source code in 1998-01,
>industry shock
>http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html
>
>? Netscape browser code released in 1998-03. Mozilla FAQ.
>http://mozilla.org/docs/mozilla-faq.html
>
>? AOL buys Netscape in 1998-11 for 4.2 billion.
>http://news.com.com/2100-1023-218360.html?legacy=cnet
>
>? Jamie Zawinski, resignation and postmortem, 1999-04
>http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
>
>? suck.com, Greg Knauss & Terry Colon, 2000-04, Netscape 6 mockery
>http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/04/10/
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/200004,greg_knauss_netscape.zip
>
>? Xah Lee, Netscape Crap
>http://xahlee.org/Writ_dir/macos-talk/58.txt
>
>    Q: Microsoft implemented extra things to standard protocols in
>their OS so that other OS makers cannot be compatible with their OS
>while their OS can be compatible with all. They used this Embrace &
>Extend to lock out competitors.
>
>A: My perspective is this: suppose you are now a company who's OS sits
>over 90% of computers (regardless how this come to be for the moment).
>Now, lots of ?standard? protocols in the industry is a result of
>popularity (RFC = Really Fucking Common), and popularity resulted from
>being free, from the RFCs of the fantastically incompetent by the
>truely stupid unix tech morons. What can you do if you want to improve
>these protocols? If you go with totally different protocols, then the
>incompatibility with the rest 10% isn't your best interest. I would
>adopt existing protocols, and extend them with improvements. Being a
>commercial entity, i'm sorry that it is not my duty to release my
>improvments to my competitors. Any of you incompetent IBM/AIX/OS/2 or
>SGI/Irix or HP/HP-UX or Sun/Solaris or Apple/AU-X/Mac can do the same,
>not that they haven't.
>
>Of course, the universe of moronic unixers and Apple fanatics cannot
>see that. The unix idiots cannot see that their fantastically stupid
>protocols are fantastically stupid in the first place. The Apple
>fanatics are simply chronically fanatic.
>
>    Q: Microsoft product is notorious for their lack of security.
>
>A: In my very sound opinion, if Microsoft's OS's security flaws is
>measured at one, then the unixes are measured at one myriad. If unixes
>suddenly switch popularity with Windows, then the world's computers
>will collapse uncontrollably by all sorts of viruses and attacks. This
>can be seen for technical person who knows unix history well:
>
>? http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/freebooks.html (e.g.
>ftpd/proftpd, inetd/xinetd, sendmail/qmail, X-Windows, telnet, passwd,
>login, rsh, rlogin.)
>
>? on the criminality of buffer overflow, by Henry Baker, 2001.
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/buffer_overflow.html
>
>? Fast Food The UNIX Way:
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_fastfood_dir/fastfood.html
>
>? Jargon File: http://www.tuxedo.org/%7Eesr/jargon/
>
>? The Rise of Worse is Better, by Richard P. Gabriel, 1991, at
>http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html
>
>and plenty other pre-90s documents to get a sense of just how
>fantastically insecure unix was and is. Unix today is not just
>technically slacking in the ?security? department, but the unix
>ways created far more unmanageable security risks that's another topic
>to discuss.
>
>The unix crime, is not just being utmost technically sloppy. Its entire
>system and ?philosophy? created an entire generation of incompetent
>programers and thinking and programing languages, with damage that is a
>few magnitude times beyond all computer viruses and attacks damages in
>history combined. See also:
>
>? Responsible Software License:
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/responsible_license.html
>
>    Q: Microsoft products are simply poor quality.
>
>A: Perhaps this in general is true pre-1997. I think the vast majority
>of MS products today have better performance/price ratio then
>competitors. This includes their operating system, their input devices
>(mouse & keyboard), their X-Box gaming console, their software game
>titles, their software architectures and languages (.NET, C#), their
>technologies (few i know: SMB), and many of their software applications
>(suite of Office, which consistently ranked top since early 90s).
>
>e.g. Tom's hardware review on x-box, esp in comparison with Sony
>Playstation 2. (2002-02):
>http://www4.tomshardware.com/consumer/02q1/020204/index.html
>
>the leading role of MS Office products can be seen in MacUser &
>MacWorld magazine reviews through out early 90s.
>
>    Q: BeOS was once to be bundled with PC, but MS meddled with it and
>basically at the end fucked Be up.
>
>A: BeOS is a fantastically fucking useless OS. No DVD player, No Java,
>No QuickTime, No games, no Mathematica, no nothing. For all practical
>purposes, fucking useless in a different way than every donkey unixes.
>Not to mention the evil Apple computer, refused to pass the QuickTime
>technology, and tried to prevent BeOS from running on Apple hardware by
>refusing to release their PPC hardware spec. Be founder Jean-Louis
>Gassee wrote an article about it. Who's fucking whom?
>
>    Q: X inc tried to do W, but MS threatened to depart.
>
>A: Dear X inc., try to find a bigger dick for your needs. If you cannot
>find any, too bad! Suck it up to the big brother and hold on to what
>you can get! If you have the smarts, milk him dry! Free country, free
>to choose partnership. Ladies, previous night's indiscretion is not
>rape the morning after.
>
>    Q: I'm not a beer bucket or pizza hole, but i want to do research
>over the web. Is there any free stuff on the web i can grab? I'm an
>OpenSource advocate, i demand free things.
>
>A: ?
>http://www.moraldefense.com/Campaigns/Microsoft/Antitrust_FAQ/default.htm
>(The Center for the Moral Defense of Capitalism)
>
>? http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v21n2/friedman.html (The
>Business Community's Suicidal Impulse by Milton Friedman, 1999-03)
>local copy
>
>    Q: I'm thinking of putting my wife and daughter on the table. What
>do you suggest to begin with?
>
>A: Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell:
>http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/jdini/basic_economics.html
>
>    Q: Are you confident enough to bet your wifes and daughters for
>what you say?
>
>A: No. But I put my reputation in.
>-------
>This post is archived at:
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/mshatredfaq.html
>
> Xah
> xah at xahlee.org
>? http://xahlee.org/



From christoph.soellner at web.de  Tue Oct 18 06:41:05 2005
From: christoph.soellner at web.de (Christoph Söllner)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:41:05 +0200
Subject: html parser?
Message-ID: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>

Hi *,

is there a html parser available, which could i.e. extract all links from a 
given text like that:
"""
<a href="foo.php?param1=test">BAR<img src="none.gif"></a>
<a href="foo2.php?param1=test&param2=test">BAR2</a>
"""

and return a set of dicts like that:
"""
{
  ['foo.php','BAR','param1','test'],
  ['foo2.php','BAR2','param1','test','param2','test']
}
"""

thanks,
Chris 




From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 25 20:21:21 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:21:21 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<435E8C5A.5030105@sun.removeme.com>
Message-ID: <utitl119do31ns6e4mv3oijaqpm6donhlm@4ax.com>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:49:46 -0400, Brian Utterback
<brian.utterback at sun.removeme.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

> Some of those steps were illegal by U.S.
>law.

There is also the matter of the Bush administration interfering in the
DOJ prosecution of Microsoft first thing when they got elected.  Can
you smell corruption?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From quncao at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 19:00:15 2005
From: quncao at gmail.com (Qun Cao)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 16:00:15 -0700
Subject: wierd threading behavior
Message-ID: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am just starting to play threading in python, here is a really
interesting problem I am very curious about:
"
import thread
def main():
    thread.start_new(test.())

def test():
    print 'hello'

main()
"
this program doesn't print out 'hello' as it is supposed to do.
while if I change main() into :
"
def main():
    while 1:
        thread.start_new(test.())
"
It goes on to print 'hello' forever.

while if I use:
"
def main():
    for i in range(5):
        print i
        thread.start_new(test.())
"
It prints out 1,2,3,4,5 in main(), but still doesn't print out anything
from test()!

This is really wierd behavior for me, I am sure it's just something
simple&stupid, please enlighten me! 

Thanks, 
qun



From http  Sat Oct  8 21:59:39 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Oct 2005 18:59:39 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:
> But trying to keep your email world into a pure text-based
> no-formatting-whatsoever world, that's a fantasy bubble that is bound
> to burst, sooner rather than later.

I read mail over an ssh connection to a Unix shell.  I have no easy
way to read html email with a graphics browser.  I occasionally get
html email that I want to read.  I save it in a file and read it with
lynx, which so far works perfectly well.  I find html email to be a
PITA and as someone else said, html in email is an almost sure sign
that it's a message that I want to trash without reading it.  But for
the rare exceptions, lynx as far as I know is 100% w3 standards
compliant, and it's plain text (and it works on terminals with no font
control) .  So there's no incompatibility between html and pure
text-based display.


From eduardo.padoan at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 17:12:16 2005
From: eduardo.padoan at gmail.com (eduardo.padoan at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 14:12:16 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
Message-ID: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm reading about "high order messages" in Ruby by Nat Pryce, and
thinking if it could be  util and if so, if it could be done in Python.
Someone already tried?

References:
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/1047
http://nat.truemesh.com/archives/000535.html
http://nat.truemesh.com/archives/000537.html



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct  5 19:55:36 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:55:36 -0400
Subject: New Python book
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051005150954.0741e1d0@rcblue.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051005150954.0741e1d0@rcblue.com>
Message-ID: <434467F8.9060008@bellsouth.net>

Dick Moores wrote:

>(Sorry, my previous post should not have had "Tutor" in the subject header.)
>
>Magnus Lie Hetland's new book, _Beginning Python: From Novice to
>Professional_ was published by Apress on Sept. 26 (in the U.S.). My copy
>arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. Very much worth a look, IMHO.
>But what do the experts here think?
>
><http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/159059519X>
>
>Dick Moores
>rdm at rcblue.com
>
>
>  
>
I don't know what "the experts" think, but I thought it was excellent.  
I had the pleasure of serving as tech editor/reviewer for this book.  My 
dead tree version hasn't arrived yet, but should be on its way. 

The style is extremely readable, not a hint of dryness in it at all.  
The concepts are clearly and thoroughly presented.  This is an excellent 
resource for someone starting Python, but definitely useful for those 
already familiar with Python.  One thing that kept coming to mind as I 
was reading it, especially toward the end during the projects at the 
end, was that this would probably also be an excellent educational 
resource for teachers in a classroom setting teaching students Python.  
I would be interested to hear some teachers' opinion on that to see if 
that's a correct assessment.

Anyway, I highly recommend this book.

- jmj


From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Oct  4 13:33:11 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:33:11 +0200
Subject: Distributing programs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhuecn$22q$1@wake.carmen.se>

Jason wrote:
> A non-python programming friend of mine has said that any programs made 
> with Python must be distributed with, or an alternative link, to the 
> source of the program.
> 
> Is this true?

There seems to be some confusion regarding what you are asking.

Are you asking about legal issues of about technical issues?
Perhaps your friend is confused about these issues.

There are no licence problems with Python. It doesn't use
anything like GPL. You do what you like with your code.

Technically, Python code is compiled into bytecode (like Java)
but in contrast with typical Java apps, it's common that
Python code is delivered as source. As someone else mentioned,
python modules are automatically compiled the first time they
are imported, and the compiled modules will be used directly
the next time, unless you change the source code (Python looks
at file modification times).

Typically, it seems professional programmers developing commercial 
software with Python worry little about their sourcecode being
accessible. Source code is protected by copyright after all, and
hiding source code doesn't prevent people from stealing software
anyway.

For some strange reason, it seems that it's almost always complete
beginners that express their worries that someone will steal their
valuable intellectual property if they distribute source, and that
somehow strikes me as unlikely.


From dont at spam.me  Thu Oct 13 15:59:43 2005
From: dont at spam.me (Brendan Guild)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:59:43 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<86slv8xdkw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96EE843405C45bguild31425@64.59.144.76>

Roedy Green wrote in news:lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4 at 4ax.com:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:45:03 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>Jeff Poskanzer, now *he* has a spam problem. He gets a few million
>>spams a day: <URL: http://www.acme.com/mail_filtering/ >.
> 
> It is a bit like termites. If we don't do something drastic to deal
> with spam, the ruddy things will eventually make the entire Internet
> unusable.
> 
> the three keys to me are:
> 
> 1. flipping to a digital id based email system so that the sender of
> any piece of mail can be legally identified and prosecuted.
> If every piece of anonymous email disappeared that would go a long
> way to clearing up spam.  Let those sending ransom notes, death
> threats and  hate mail use snail mail.  As a second best,
> correspondents are identified by permission/identity/encryption keys
> given to them by their recipients.

The first part seems rather expensive and I'm not sure it would help. 
Is spam illegal? I don't see how it can be. I mean, those messages are 
annoying, but not that annoying. I get unsolicited email that I 
actually want often enough to want to avoid gumming it up in legal 
issues.

The second part seems like it would be annoying for the recipients and 
would make just sending ordinary email more complicated.

> 2. flipping to a sender pays system so that the Internet does not
> subsidise spam.

This is very promising. Our ISPs should put limits on how much email we 
can send. The limits should be rather insane, nothing that any 
nonspammer would ever come close to, but low enough to stop spam dead. 
If we want to send more than that, we'd better be charged extra.

We could make each mail server responsible for the spam that it sends 
out. It seems that currently mail servers are swamped and spending big 
money on handling the vast loads of spam that gets pumped into them 
from other mail servers, so I'm sure they wouldn't mind having a rule 
like: Refuse to allow email to be transported from any server that 
spews more than 50% spam. Servers could be audited occasionally to 
check if they are spammers.

I don't know exactly how spammers send spam, but a rule like that would 
sure stop ISPs from allowing any one person to send a thousand emails a 
day.

In fact, if 99% of the email sent is spam, then we can safely assume 
that the proper email traffic is 1/100th of what it is now. We just 
have to close the valves a little. Mail servers could have an upper 
limit on how much they will transfer each day to force restrictions 
throughout the system and finally to the individual emailer. I'd rather 
have my mail server give me an error message saying that I've sent too 
much email every once in a while than have the entire Internet clogged 
with spam.

[snipped third key]


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Thu Oct  6 03:49:06 2005
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:49:06 +0100
Subject: Copy files to Linux server through ssh tunnel
In-Reply-To: <43279.195.228.229.142.1128584023.squirrel@195.228.229.142>
References: <43279.195.228.229.142.1128584023.squirrel@195.228.229.142>
Message-ID: <di2kti$e8o$1@sea.gmane.org>

durumdara at mailpont.hu wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> I have some backup files on a server farm.
> I want to store these local backup files on a backup file server for
> "safety's snake".
> 
> These files are compressed zip files with 12 character length password.
> But my system admin asked me, how can I improve the safety of the copy
> operation, and the storing (now I use Samba share to store these files. I
> map the SMB share on the client, copy these files, and unmap SMB).
> 
> Then I thinking to ssh protocol to improve protection.
> 
> The backup script is a py script. I see that Winscp can copy files through
> ssh tunnel. Can I do it too ?
> How ? How to I do it in pythonic way ?
> 
> Please help me with some examples or urls or other infos !
> 
> Thanks * 1000:
> dd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------
> 1 Gbyte Ingyenes E-Mail T?rhely a MailPont-t?l
> http://www.mailpont.hu/
> 

See this:


http://www.lag.net/paramiko/


with this library you can use sftp to transfer you files.



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Thu Oct 20 17:35:27 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:35:27 +0100
Subject: A macro editor
In-Reply-To: <3rq8c5Fl3m4bU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <gKR5f.107432$US.72731@news.ono.com> <3rq8c5Fl3m4bU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202230230.13901@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> So - _I_ think the better user-experience comes froma well-working easy 
> to use REPL to quickly give the scripts a try.

I'd agree with that. Which is better, a difficult language with lots of 
fancy tools to help you write it, or an easy language?

I don't know Groovy, but having looked at some examples, it looks like 
jave with a makeover, which, compared to python, sounds like a difficult 
language.

As for python vs ruby, i can't really offer any insights on the languages 
themselves. Personally, i'd go for python, but that's because i know 
python and not ruby.

tom

-- 
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END


From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Wed Oct 12 21:29:15 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 18:29:15 -0700
Subject: Python adodb
References: <1129158246.494302.140670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129166955.456547.155400@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have used the following code in ADO:

# The following code creates a connection object,
# assigns the connection string, opens the
# connection object, and then verifies a good
# connection.

oConn = Dispatch('ADODB.Connection')

oConn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;" +\
                         "Data Source=servername;" +\
                         "uid=loginid;" +\
                         "pwd=password;" +\
                         "database=databasename"

oConn.Open()
if oConn.State == adStateOpen:
    print "Database connection SUCCEEDED"
else:
    print "Database connection FAILED"

Hope this helps



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 07:46:34 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 04:46:34 -0700
Subject: C Extension - return an array of longs or pointer?
Message-ID: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   I have been posting about writing a C extension for Python...so far,
so good.  At least for the "simple" functions that I need to wrap.

Ok, my c function looks like...

MY_NUM *doNumberStuff(const char *in, const char *x) { ... }

MY_NUM is defined as, typedef unsigned long MY_NUM;  (not sure if that
matters, or can i just create a wrapper which handles longs?)

anyhow..for my wrapper I have this..

static PyObject *wrap_doNumberStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject args) {
    char *in = 0;
    char *x = 0;
    long *result = 0;
    int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &in, &x);
    if (!ok) return 0;

    result = doNumberStuff(in, x);

    return Py_BuildValue("l", result);
}

...my question is...in the c code, result is a pointer to an array of
longs, how can I get the returned result to be a list or something
similar to an array in Python?

...I also have a function which returns a character array (denoted by a
char *)...would it work the same as the previous question?

Thanks!!



From iainking at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 05:17:11 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 02:17:11 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2578.1130313354.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <djmkbj$og4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<mailman.2578.1130313354.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130318231.916751.26480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


David Blomstrom wrote:
> A bit off topic, but it amazes me that people in the
> web design/Internet industry don't take a more active
> stance against Microsoft.
>
> Think about it: The health care industry has been
> privatized in the U.S. I spent sixteen years in
> education, another institution that has been
> privatized. (It has largely become another Microsoft
> subsidiary.)
>
> So here we have web designers, who are among the
> freest people in the world, able to choose their
> specialties, hours, fees and even where they work. Yet
> they surrender to Microsoft's "standards" without a
> fight.
>
> Frankly, I think every self-respecting webmaster ought
> to be campaigning against Microsoft on their websites.
> Tiny, simple messages like "Microsoft-Free" or "If you
> like George AWOL Bush, you'll love Bill Gates," could
> go a long ways in educating the public.
>

Or, you know, just code your website to be W3C compliant, which IE will
invariably choke on. 

Iain



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 09:54:45 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:54:45 +0200
Subject: How to get the output from os.system() into a variable?
In-Reply-To: <87u0fw9irn.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
References: <1128519815.769933.60660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<87u0fw9irn.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
Message-ID: <4343DB25.5010604@designaproduct.biz>


>>result=python_command(' command_on_the_bash ')
>>
>>Is that possible? And how to do that?
>>    
>>
>
>Check out the commands module.
>
>http://docs.python.org/lib/module-commands.html
>
Hmm, I forgot this one. It is only working from UNIX, am I right?

   Les



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 15:46:43 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 12:46:43 -0700
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1917.1129058774.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1914.1129055650.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129056123.654224.18070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129058051.426314.28670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1917.1129058774.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129060002.969195.24940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

quick question...how about returning an array of longs?  ..or in my
case I have a pointer to an array of longs.

Thanks


Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-10-11 at 15:14, Java and Swing wrote:
> > Anyhow, I need PyBuildValue to work.
> 
> Try Py_BuildValue.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Carsten Haese.



From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 13:04:10 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 10:04:10 -0700
Subject: How to delete yourself????
In-Reply-To: <1129301853.032055.54010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129299904.130287.287680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129301105.048023.36430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129301853.032055.54010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129309450.534478.179670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> But is this nice code??? Is there another way to delete yourself???

I think you are overcomplicating things.

Don't think of it as deleting 'itself', since what you seem to need is
deleting a reference to the instance.

In your example the parent is a container and  it usually makes more
sense to have the only the container deal with adding and deleting
elements, that way your objects are less coupled.

Istvan.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 30 07:31:53 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:31:53 +1100
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86d5lpdwg3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130608862.858527.124330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.30.12.31.53.658371@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:01:02 -0700, chris.atlee at gmail.com wrote:

> Mike Meyer wrote:
> [snip]
>>    for name, value in kwargs.items():
>>        if name in ('a', 'list', 'of', 'valid', 'keywords'):
>>           exec "%s = %s" % (name, value)
>>        else:
>>           raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword " + name
>>
>> Others will probably tell you that you really shouldn't be using exec.
> 
> What about using setattr?
> 
>     for name, value in kwargs.items():
>         if name in ('a', 'list', 'of', 'valid', 'keywords'):
>            setattr(self, name, value)
>         else:
>            raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword " + name
> 
> I'd probably turn the list of valid keywords into another dictionary to
> make it easy to specify default values for all the parameters as well.

Here's a thought... instead of passing a class instance which you access
with obj.name, why not pass a dict which you access with dict[name]?

I don't understand the purpose of doing all this extra work to stuff
values stored in a dictionary into instance attributes, when it is so easy
to just use the dictionary. What advantage do you get?



-- 
Steven.



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 10:38:23 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:38:23 -0400
Subject: xml.dom.minidom - parseString - How to avoid ExpatError?
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510260738j460b075ch998371a460c39df8@mail.gmail.com>

Should I try some sort of XML group instead? I'm still stuck on this.

-Greg


On 10/25/05, Gregory Pi?ero <gregpinero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I was hoping some XML expert could help me make this code work. Below is
> sample code with sample XML similar to what I'm dealing with.
>
> How can I make the weird characters in the XML not break the parser? I'll
> do anything to make this work!
>
> (Note: the &nbsp; broke my parser yesterday but doesn't seem to in this
> sample code) But really I'm looking for solutions that will handles lots
> of unusual characters.
>
> Much thanks,
>
> Greg
>
>
> <code>
> from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
> data="""
> <blog>
> <post>
> This is sample problem text. &nbsp; ?500.00
> </post>
> </blog>
> """
> myDOM=parseString(data)
> </code>
>
> <error>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File
> "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
> line 307, in RunScript
> debugger.run(codeObject, __main__.__dict__, start_stepping=0)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\__init__.py",
> line 60, in run
> _GetCurrentDebugger().run(cmd, globals,locals, start_stepping)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
> line 631, in run
> exec cmd in globals, locals
> File "C:\Documents and Settings\Gregory\My Documents\Python\xml
> help\xmlproc.py", line 9, in ?
> myDOM=parseString(data)
> File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 1929, in parseString
> return expatbuilder.parseString(string)
> File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 940, in parseString
> return builder.parseString(string)
> File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 223, in parseString
> parser.Parse(string, True)
> ExpatError: undefined entity: line 4, column 29
> </error>
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory Pi?ero
> Chief Innovation Officer
> Blended Technologies
> (www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)




--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From leomendoza at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 10:15:41 2005
From: leomendoza at gmail.com (leo)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 07:15:41 -0700
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-B3B8C2.18033703102005@news.verizon.net>
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<*firstname*nlsnews-B3B8C2.18033703102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1128435341.708873.244050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> However, I think the functionality you're asking for is available as
> inspect.currentframe(), and if the implementation is in "C" it may have a tiny
> performance advantage over the Python version.

You're absolutely right, in fact the code snippet from my OP was taken
directly from inspect.currentframe. We're intending on using this in
production, and I'm trying to gauge what the implications may be.

> Python uses exceptions internally, using StopIteration to terminate the
> iterator in a for: loop.

Wow, I was unaware of this. If Python internally uses exceptions, maybe
they aren't as detrimental as I thought.

That said, I will be judiciously profiling my code and measuring as
much as possible, I just wanted to throw this question out to the NG in
case anyone had done this before (and so I can put off learning the
profiler a little bit longer :) )

Thanks all for the replies.



From xah at xahlee.org  Fri Oct 14 22:01:42 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 19:01:42 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Message-ID: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Microsoft Hatred, FAQ

Xah Lee, 20020518

    Question: U.S. Judges are not morons, and quite a few others are
not morons. They find MS guilty, so it must be true.

Answer: so did the German population thought Jews are morons by
heritage, to the point that Jews should be exterminated from earth.
Apparently, the entire German population cannot be morons, they must be
right.

Judge for yourself, is a principle i abide by. And when you judge, it
is better to put some effort into it.

How much you invest in this endearvor depends on how important the
issue is to you. If you are like most people, for which the issue of
Microsoft have remote effect on your personal well-being, then you can
go out and buy a case of beer on one hand and pizza on the other, and
rap with your online confabulation buddies about how evil is MS. If you
are an author writing a book on this, then obviously its different
because your reputation and ultimately daily bread depend on what you
put down. If you are a MS competitor such as Apple or Sun, then
obviously you will see to it with as much money as you can cough out
that MS is guilty by all measures and gets put out of business. If you
are a government employee such as a judge, of course it is your
interest to please your boss, with your best accessment of the air.

When i judge things, i like to imagine things being serious, as if my
wife is a wager, my daughter is at stake, that any small factual error
or mis-judgement or misleading perspective will cause unimaginable
things to happen. Then, my opinions becomes better ones.

    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
not monopoly, i don't know what is.

A: Now suppose there is a very ethical company E, whose products have
the best performance/price ratio, and making all the competitors
looking so majorly stupid and ultimately won over 90% of the market as
decided by consumers. Is E now a monopoly? Apparently, beer drinkers
and pizza eaters needs to study a bit on the word monopoly, from the
perspectives of language to history to law. If they have some extra
time, they can sharpen views from philosophy & logic contexts as well.

    Q: What about all the people in the corporate environments who are
forced to use MS products and aren't allowed the option/choice to use
Mac/Linux/UNIX?

A: Kick your boss's ass, or, choose to work for a company who have
decisions that you liked.

    Q: What about MS buying out all competitors?

A: Microsoft offered me $1 grand for saying good things about them.
They didn't put a gunpoint on my head. I CHOOSE to take the bribe.
Likewise, sold companies can and have decided what's best for them.
It's nothing like under gunpoint.

    Q: Microsoft forced computer makers to not install competitor's
applications or OSes.

A: It is free country. Don't like MS this or that? Fuck MS and talk to
the Solaris or BeOS or AIX or HP-UX or Apple or OS/2 or Amiga or NeXT
or the Linuxes with their free yet fantastically easy-to-use and
network-spamming X-Windows. Bad business prospects? Then grab the
opportunity and become an entrepreneur and market your own beats-all
OS. Too difficult? Let's sue Microsoft!

    Q: Microsoft distributed their Internet Explorer web browser free,
using their ?monopoly? power to put Netscape out of business.

A: entirely inane coding monkeys listen: It takes huge investment to
give away a quality software free. Netscape can give away Operating
Systems free to put MS out of business too. Nobody is stopping Sun
Microsystem from giving Java free, or BeOS a browser free, or Apple to
bundle QuickTime deeply with their OS free.

Not to mention that Netscape is worse than IE in just about every
version till they become the OpenSource mozilla shit and eventually
bought out by AOL and still shit.

? Netscape struggles, announced open browser source code in 1998-01,
industry shock
http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html

? Netscape browser code released in 1998-03. Mozilla FAQ.
http://mozilla.org/docs/mozilla-faq.html

? AOL buys Netscape in 1998-11 for 4.2 billion.
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-218360.html?legacy=cnet

? Jamie Zawinski, resignation and postmortem, 1999-04
http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html

? suck.com, Greg Knauss & Terry Colon, 2000-04, Netscape 6 mockery
http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/04/10/
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/200004,greg_knauss_netscape.zip

? Xah Lee, Netscape Crap
http://xahlee.org/Writ_dir/macos-talk/58.txt

    Q: Microsoft implemented extra things to standard protocols in
their OS so that other OS makers cannot be compatible with their OS
while their OS can be compatible with all. They used this Embrace &
Extend to lock out competitors.

A: My perspective is this: suppose you are now a company who's OS sits
over 90% of computers (regardless how this come to be for the moment).
Now, lots of ?standard? protocols in the industry is a result of
popularity (RFC = Really Fucking Common), and popularity resulted from
being free, from the RFCs of the fantastically incompetent by the
truely stupid unix tech morons. What can you do if you want to improve
these protocols? If you go with totally different protocols, then the
incompatibility with the rest 10% isn't your best interest. I would
adopt existing protocols, and extend them with improvements. Being a
commercial entity, i'm sorry that it is not my duty to release my
improvments to my competitors. Any of you incompetent IBM/AIX/OS/2 or
SGI/Irix or HP/HP-UX or Sun/Solaris or Apple/AU-X/Mac can do the same,
not that they haven't.

Of course, the universe of moronic unixers and Apple fanatics cannot
see that. The unix idiots cannot see that their fantastically stupid
protocols are fantastically stupid in the first place. The Apple
fanatics are simply chronically fanatic.

    Q: Microsoft product is notorious for their lack of security.

A: In my very sound opinion, if Microsoft's OS's security flaws is
measured at one, then the unixes are measured at one myriad. If unixes
suddenly switch popularity with Windows, then the world's computers
will collapse uncontrollably by all sorts of viruses and attacks. This
can be seen for technical person who knows unix history well:

? http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/freebooks.html (e.g.
ftpd/proftpd, inetd/xinetd, sendmail/qmail, X-Windows, telnet, passwd,
login, rsh, rlogin.)

? on the criminality of buffer overflow, by Henry Baker, 2001.
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/buffer_overflow.html

? Fast Food The UNIX Way:
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_fastfood_dir/fastfood.html

? Jargon File: http://www.tuxedo.org/%7Eesr/jargon/

? The Rise of Worse is Better, by Richard P. Gabriel, 1991, at
http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

and plenty other pre-90s documents to get a sense of just how
fantastically insecure unix was and is. Unix today is not just
technically slacking in the ?security? department, but the unix
ways created far more unmanageable security risks that's another topic
to discuss.

The unix crime, is not just being utmost technically sloppy. Its entire
system and ?philosophy? created an entire generation of incompetent
programers and thinking and programing languages, with damage that is a
few magnitude times beyond all computer viruses and attacks damages in
history combined. See also:

? Responsible Software License:
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/responsible_license.html

    Q: Microsoft products are simply poor quality.

A: Perhaps this in general is true pre-1997. I think the vast majority
of MS products today have better performance/price ratio then
competitors. This includes their operating system, their input devices
(mouse & keyboard), their X-Box gaming console, their software game
titles, their software architectures and languages (.NET, C#), their
technologies (few i know: SMB), and many of their software applications
(suite of Office, which consistently ranked top since early 90s).

e.g. Tom's hardware review on x-box, esp in comparison with Sony
Playstation 2. (2002-02):
http://www4.tomshardware.com/consumer/02q1/020204/index.html

the leading role of MS Office products can be seen in MacUser &
MacWorld magazine reviews through out early 90s.

    Q: BeOS was once to be bundled with PC, but MS meddled with it and
basically at the end fucked Be up.

A: BeOS is a fantastically fucking useless OS. No DVD player, No Java,
No QuickTime, No games, no Mathematica, no nothing. For all practical
purposes, fucking useless in a different way than every donkey unixes.
Not to mention the evil Apple computer, refused to pass the QuickTime
technology, and tried to prevent BeOS from running on Apple hardware by
refusing to release their PPC hardware spec. Be founder Jean-Louis
Gassee wrote an article about it. Who's fucking whom?

    Q: X inc tried to do W, but MS threatened to depart.

A: Dear X inc., try to find a bigger dick for your needs. If you cannot
find any, too bad! Suck it up to the big brother and hold on to what
you can get! If you have the smarts, milk him dry! Free country, free
to choose partnership. Ladies, previous night's indiscretion is not
rape the morning after.

    Q: I'm not a beer bucket or pizza hole, but i want to do research
over the web. Is there any free stuff on the web i can grab? I'm an
OpenSource advocate, i demand free things.

A: ?
http://www.moraldefense.com/Campaigns/Microsoft/Antitrust_FAQ/default.htm
(The Center for the Moral Defense of Capitalism)

? http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v21n2/friedman.html (The
Business Community's Suicidal Impulse by Milton Friedman, 1999-03)
local copy

    Q: I'm thinking of putting my wife and daughter on the table. What
do you suggest to begin with?

A: Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell:
http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/jdini/basic_economics.html

    Q: Are you confident enough to bet your wifes and daughters for
what you say?

A: No. But I put my reputation in.
-------
This post is archived at:
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/mshatredfaq.html

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From hagai26 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 03:02:39 2005
From: hagai26 at gmail.com (hagai26 at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:02:39 -0700
Subject: replace words
Message-ID: <1130310159.632687.295020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What is the way for replacing in a string from . to . the sentence?
for example:
"been .taken.  it may be .left. there,
even if the .live coals were not. cleared"
I want to do this-> replace(\.(.*)\.,\.start (1) end\.)
result:
"been .start taken end.  it may be .start left end. there,
even if the .start live coals were not end. cleared"



From http  Mon Oct  3 05:28:39 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 02:28:39 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xzmprueyg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > That's not what privilege separation means.  It means that the
> > privileged objects stay secure even when the unprivileged part of the
> > program is completely controlled by an attacker.
> 
> In which case, what's "private" got to do with this? The examples I've
> seen of it don't give you privilege seperation any more than python does.

If you have a java class instance with a private member that's (say) a
network socket to a special port, access to the port is controlled
entirely by that class.  Calling classes can't reach into the instance
to get at the socket.  Similarly, private variables might hold
database passwords, crypto keys, or whatever.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 12:34:08 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 18:34:08 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> George Sakkis <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:
<snip>
>>Yes, it's a little inconvenient that the builtin heap doesn't take a
>>comparison operation but you can easily roll your own heap by transforming
>>each item to a (key,item) tuple. Now that I'm thinking about it, it might
>>be a good addition to the cookbook.
> 
> 
> I believe Python 2.5 adds a key= argument to heapq's functions...
<snip>

I will revisit the heapq solution when 2.5 is released then.

Thanks for the heads up. For the moment I will stay with the list 
solution that Mike came up with slightly changed to accomodate tips and 
pointers from others in this thread.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct 11 10:02:31 2005
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:02:31 +0200
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
In-Reply-To: <dig9k9$6nh$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<434ba819$0$38698$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<dig9k9$6nh$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <434bc5ba$0$38686$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> Max M wrote:

> So what you're saying is that instead of:
> 
> def fn(*values, **options):
> 
> I should use:
> 
> def fn(values, cmp=cmp):
> 
> in this specific case?
> 
> and then instead of:
> 
> fn(1, 2, 3, cmp=...)
> 
> this:
> 
> fn([1, 2, 3], cmp=...)

Precisely. Sometimes you need different interfaces for a method. In that 
case it is fine.

But if you are just doing it instead of passing sequences, you are just 
(ab)using the * and ** operators.

The method definition, like any python code, is made for humans not 
machines. The more obvious you can make the function definition, the 
happier anyone will be.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From gene.tani at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 08:32:29 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 05:32:29 -0700
Subject: Extending Python
In-Reply-To: <1h4371j.fuys6u9p47htN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1559.1128534435.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h4371j.fuys6u9p47htN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1128774749.874267.58670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Yup, still there, issues 1 and 2
http://pyzine.com/Issue002/index.html

Also recommend Dave Kuhlman's brief intro (open in your tabbed browser)
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_201/python_201.html#SECTION006000000000000000000


Alex Martelli wrote:
> Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 05, Tuvas wrote:
> > > I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C
> > > code. I have an application built in C that I need to be able to use
> > > in Python. I have searched through various sources, starting of

>
> I also covered the same subject in a more tutorial (but less deep and
> extended) way in articles for "Py" magazine, but I don't know if those
> old issues of it are still in print.
> 
> 
> Alex



From michael+USENET at www.heiming.de  Sat Oct 15 15:05:21 2005
From: michael+USENET at www.heiming.de (Michael Heiming)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:05:21 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F0847955C35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<39u723-ldp.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F08C649FB60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <ig0823-bes.ln1@news.heiming.de>

In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>:
> Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:

>> In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>:
>>> Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>> The only thing positive about M$ entering the market, probably
>>>> due to their ineffective programming style they pushed Intel into
>>>> producing pretty fast while cheapo CPUs.
>> 
>>> Amazing, I thought Xah Lee was the only one able to fit so much BS in
>>> one sentence.
>> 
>> You them to have a talent to piss-off people with just a single
>> terse contribution. ;-)

> Only if their contribution is utter BS and I point this out.

Dunno what's so BS about the possibility that the wintel mafia
works hand in hand, M$ introduces a new OS and Intel faster CPU.
People need to use the first, luckily both come bundled with the
latest PC people just need to buy right now. Iirc this is called
marketing, you don't seem to have much clue about.

BTW
Thx for reminding me to actually kill-file you.

PLONK

-- 
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry at urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 183: filesystem not big enough for Jumbo Kernel
Patch


From Joshua.R.English at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 16:38:32 2005
From: Joshua.R.English at gmail.com (Joshua.R.English at gmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 13:38:32 -0700
Subject: GUI on Macintosh
Message-ID: <1128717512.502956.45170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am using Python 2.3.3 on an Mac OS9 system.  I am looking for a build
of Python 2.3.3+ with a built in GUI, since Tk is missing.  One day I
hope to upgrade to a new Mac with OSX on it, so a GUI that is available
on OS9 and OSX is preferable.  I don't want to write my GUI code from
scratch if I ever manage to upgrade.

Any suggestions?



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct  6 18:15:52 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:15:52 -0500
Subject: interactive window vs. script:  inconsistent behavior
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1639.1128631418.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1639.1128631418.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <COWdndkQgt2_P9jeRVn-gQ@comcast.com>

This also works and IMHO reads better:

d="5-18-05 to 5-31-05"
f,t=d.split(' to '))

Larry Bates

Bell, Kevin wrote:
> The following works in the interactive window of PythonWin, but fails in
> a script.  TypeError: Objects of type 'slice' can not be converted to a
> COM VARIANT
> 
> I just need to parse out these dates, but it's making me crazy.
> Shouldn't it work in both the interactive window and a script?  
> 
> 
> 
>>>>d = "5-18-05 to 5-31-05"
>>>>print d[0:d.find("to")-1]
> 
> 5-18-05
> 
>>>>print d[d.find("to")+3:]
> 
> 5-31-05
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kev
> 
> 


From http  Thu Oct 13 04:07:21 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 01:07:21 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> AFAIK some LISPs do a similar trick to carry int values on
> cons-cells. And by this tehy reduce integer precision to 28 bit or
> something. Surely _not_ going to pass a regression test suite :)

Lisps often use just one tag bit, to distinguish between an immediate
object and a heap object.  With int/long unification, Python shouldn't
be able to tell the difference between an immediate int and a heap int.

I seem to remember that KCL (and maybe GCL/AKCL) uses heap-consed ints
just like Python does.  It doesn't seem to be disastrous.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 03:58:04 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:58:04 +0200
Subject: 2 class with same name in different module
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4B@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <di012g$9u9$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Iyer, Prasad C" wrote:

> I have a class in a module which is getting imported in main module.
> How do you differentiate between the 2 class

if you have one class in a module, why do you need to differentiate
between it?  assuming that you do in fact have *two* classes with
the same name in two different modules, you just have to import them
as usual, and access them via their modules:


    import module1
    import module2

    o1 = module1.Class()
    o2 = module2.Class()

if this is not what you mean, please post a short example that shows
what the problem really is.

</F>





From viridia at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 13:34:14 2005
From: viridia at gmail.com (Talin)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 10:34:14 -0800
Subject: Recursive generators and backtracking search
In-Reply-To: <1h576bz.t0vzhzkqtit3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h576bz.t0vzhzkqtit3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130697254.249071.88720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:

> for x in whatever_other_iterable: yield x
>
> into (say)
>
> yield from whatever_other_iterable
>
> is minute and not worth changing the syntax (even though something like
> 'yield from' would mean no keywords would need to be added).

I agree that the improvement is minor, but I'll take what I can get.
Although, I can think that perhaps there could be a potential
efficiency improvement as well - right now, each result has to crawl
its way up the stack of yields. For an 8 x 8 board, each final result
gets yielded 8 times. A 'yield from' might potentially be able to
splice the results directly into the output of the generator using some
kind of iterator chain logic. I'm not sure how feasible this is,
however.

A more compelling benefit would be some means of yielding a value
across multiple stack frames. Currently the generator semantics are
limited, in that they only allow co-routine behavior between a caller
and its directly called subroutine.

What I am more interested in, however, is the use of backtracking
search in Python, and its application to more complex search problems.
The main benefit of the generator approach is in the elimination of
callbacks, allowing the consumer of the search results to retain its
local state in a convenient way, (Anyone who's ever struggled with the
SAX API for XML parsing knows what I am talking about.)

One difference between these more complex problems and the simple
example I posted is that it isn't just simple recursion at work. Each
level of search may invoke a variety of different search strategies for
each sub-part of the problem, which themselves will do the same with
their own portion.

Here's a thought experiment: What would it take to make Python the
premier language for AI research? (Not that I am proposing that this
should be the Python community's goal, this is more in the way of a
brainstorm session.)



From free.condiments at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 23:16:19 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 20:16:19 -0700
Subject: index and find
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2428.1130036987.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2428.1130036987.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130037379.160050.264610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

>>> s = 'foobar'
>>> s.find('z')
-1
>>> s.index('z')

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#32>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    s.index('z')
ValueError: substring not found


Pretty self explanatory.



From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 12:12:19 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 09:12:19 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <435d04b8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435d04b8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1130170339.476122.61080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Kent,
  Yes, your example does work.  So did os.popen...however, the problem
is specific to "cmd.exe".
   Have you tried that yet?

Thanks!

Kent Johnson wrote:
> jas wrote:
> > Ok, I tried this...
> >
> > C:\>python
> > Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
> > on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >
> >>>>import subprocess as sp
> >>>>p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> >>>>
> >>>>result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
> >
> > 'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> > operable program or batch file.
> >
> >
> >
> > basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
> > store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
> > an error with result.
>
> This works for me:
> import subprocess as sp
> p = sp.Popen("ipconfig", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> result = p.communicate()[0]
> print result
> 
> Kent



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 11:10:10 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:10:10 -0700
Subject: OpenSSL in Python
Message-ID: <1130425810.431748.39660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi to all,

What do I have to install to get the following code work (Win XP,
Python 2.4.2)


from OpenSSL import SSL
import config

KEY_FILE = config.SSL_KEY_FILE
CERT_FILE = config.SSL_CERT_FILE


----------------------------------

I've been looking for OpenSSL for python. I found pyOpenSSL, but it
requires the OpenSSL library, which I only found on
http://www.openssl.org/, but don't know how to install.

Other thing is the "config" module... I'm lost. Someone knows? :-S

My main purpose is to enable xml-rpc server over an SSL connection.

Thanks

Daniel



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 11:39:04 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:39:04 +0200
Subject: os.access with wildcards
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com><mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di64qs$33g$1@sea.gmane.org>

"mike" wrote:

> Test for the existence of one or more matches of the wildcard
> expression.

why are you reposting variations of your question (in duplicates)
instead of reading the replies?  that's not a good way to pass the
turing test.

</F>





From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct  9 22:03:13 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 02:03:13 GMT
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.23.31.45.89195@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<p90jk1tspllkptk5q0jsag7gjo0fhb1aj9@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.31.45.89195@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <BZj2f.6130$ae.3233@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> For what it is worth, Python is compiled AND interpreted -- it compiles
> byte-code which is interpreted in a virtual machine. That makes it an
> compiling interpreter, or maybe an interpreting compiler, in my book.

Good points, and in addition to this, the individual byte codes and many 
builtin routines in python are compiled 'C' code.  So it's really a 
matter of how many level of indirect references are between the the 
application code and the internal cpu registers.  Even in assembly 
language you can program though indirect data structures to simplify 
overall program design.

I really think the performance differences will get narrower as Python 
is developed further.  I for one would much rather have a language I can 
program new things in a matter of days, rather than one which would 
require a few thousand pages of reference material just to figure out 
where to start.

If I was forced to go back to MS C++ again, I think I would take up 
painting instead of programing as my main hobby.

;-)

Cheers,
    Ron




From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 22 20:21:11 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:21:11 -0400
Subject: Binding a variable?
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86hdbau65d.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.52.10.332962@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86br1h9j7s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:

> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:33:18 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
>
>> Paul Dale <pd at traxon.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that
>>>
>>> temp = 5
>>>
>>> list = [ temp ]
>
> Don't use the names of built-in functions as variables.
>
>>> temp == 6
>>>
>>> list
>>>
>>> would show
>>>
>>> list = [ 6 ]
>> 
>> No. You need to either put a mutable in the list, or subclass list so
>> that indexing gets the value, looks it up in the appropriate
>> namespace, and returns that value.
>
> Or something even conceptually simpler than having to muck about with
> looking up different namespaces:
[elided]

Um, that's the *first* solution I proposed: putting a mutable on the
list.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct 17 17:16:14 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:16:14 -0500
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.17.13.12.01.917022@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.12.01.917022@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <5vadnZS7T8kBicneRVn-hg@comcast.com>

What if a is a tuple of lists?  What if b is a
class?  What if c is a file object?  I can't even
tell what [d e] means?  IMHO the output isn't in
"a readable format" at all (perhaps something got
lost in the posting).

pprint is as close are you are going to find for a
general solution to this problem.

-Larry Bates

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:25:35 +0800, James Gan wrote:
> 
> 
>>I want the object printed in a readable format. For example,
>>x =[a, b, c, [d e]] will be printed as:
>>x--a
>>  |_b
>>  |_c
>>  |___d
>>    |_e
> 
> 
> I think you missed an "un-" in your first sentence.
> 
> :-)
> 
> In general, if you want special/fancy/bizarre printing, you should either
> write your own custom functions, or sub-class the objects in question.
> 
> E.g. 
> 
> def multiline_print(L, indent=""):
>     """Multi-line printing of lists.
>     WARNING: Untested and probably full of bugs.
>     """
>     for item in L:
>         if type(item) == list:
>             multiline_print(item, indent + "    ")
>         else:
>             print indent + "|_" + str(item)
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 


From lycka at carmen.se  Fri Oct  7 04:01:00 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:01:00 +0200
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
In-Reply-To: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di59vt$44o$1@wake.carmen.se>

pnau at sjm.com wrote:
> The main jist of the problem is that I'm trying add data from one
> module to a list and a dictionary in another module, and it doesn't
> seem to stick over there.

It's probably best to avoid any circular depentencies, but as
long as you make sure you really use your modules as modules,
and not one of them aas a main prorgam, I think it should work.

$ cat > a.py
import b
def set_b(n):
     b.b=n
$ cat > b.py
import a
def set_a(n):
     a.a=n
$ python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51)
[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import a,b
 >>> a.set_b('B')
 >>> b.set_a('A')
 >>> a.a
'A'
 >>> b.b
'B'
 >>>


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 17 17:51:10 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:51:10 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<divdik$vmj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <dj16cf$k6p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber at 130.133.1.4...

> So you think that MS, based on something that might (or might not
> happen) somewhere in a future, burned a lot of money?

    Yep. Why do you think Microsoft tried to balkanize Java?

>>> No: the historical fact is that MS whiped Netscape of the planet.
>>> That you come up with "They were afraid that everybody would be
>>> running NS Office online using Netscape" is just a guess.
>>
>>     No, it's well-documented fact that Microsoft's entry into the
>>     browser
>> war was precisely because they feared that browsers would become the
>> new operating systems.

> Where can I read that well-documented fact?

    Pretty much in any history of the browser wars. For example, the DOJ 
writes, in their appeal brief:

In May 1995, Microsoft Chief Executive Officer William Gates wrote that 
Netscape was "pursuing a multi-platform strategy where they move the key API 
into the client [Web browser] to commoditize the underlying operating 
system."

    There are many, many other sources. This was never a secret and was 
never in dispute. You are welcome to keep your head in the sand, but it's 
just you.

>>> MS just seems to ignore a certain development for some time, then
>>> state it's not significant, and next they are an important player.
>>> This is not limited to "MS missed the Internet, almost...". They
>>> don't miss anything, they just don't jump on every hype.
>>
>>     What is your explanation for why MS decided it was so important to
>> control the browser market? You think MS was too stupid to realize
>> that web-based applications threatened to make desktop OSes
>> interchangeable?

> And you think MS is so stupid to just jump through hoops because
> something that still isn't here, might have been there like 8 years ago?

    I can only surmise that you are completely unfamiliar with the history 
of the browser wars.

> Can you show me what companies MS bought to justify their fear for a
> major move to thin client computing?

    They explicitly said that this was their fear. You don't need to read 
tea leaves, you can read memos and speeches. It is very clear that MS was 
(and to some extent still is) afraid that thin clients and web-based 
applications will commoditize the OS.

    DS




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 12 15:51:46 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:51:46 +0200
Subject: C Extension - return an array of longs or pointer?
In-Reply-To: <1129121939_1307@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129121392_1305@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<1129121939_1307@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <434d6952$0$16907$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Brandon K wrote:
>         PyTuple_SET_ITEM(py, i, Py_BuildValue("l",*result[i]);

Using Py_BuildValue is overkill here. PyInt_FromLong will do just
as well.

Regards,
Martin


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 08:27:32 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:27:32 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com><pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dib2bo$hlr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Yes I did. Did you read my post?

given that the wikipedia page says

    "a closure is an abstraction representing a function, plus the
    lexical environment (see static scoping) in which the function
    was created."

and you're still focussing on type(function), it sure looks as if you missed
certain parts of that explanation.

let's take it again, with emphasis on some important words:

    "a closure is an ABSTRACTION representing a function, PLUS the
    lexical ENVIRONMENT (see static scoping) in which the function
    was created."

> If you create a closure, using a memoization technique as per the original
> post, and then call type() on that closure, Python reports <type 'function'>.

that's because "closure" is an abstract concept.  there is no "closure" object
in Python, just as there is no "program" object.  function objects always con-
tain all the information they need about their context, and the sum of that is
what forms the closure.

> If you use dir() on that closure-that-Python-calls-a-function, it tells
> you that there is an attribute "func_closure". But ordinary functions that
> aren't closures also have that attribute.

"ordinary functions" also have closures: the global context is also part of
the function's environment, and therefore part of the closure (in Python,
it can be argued that all attributes of the function object are part of the
closure)

</F>





From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Oct  5 08:53:57 2005
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:53:57 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xek70xhzz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1517.1128511675.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xek70xhzz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4343CCE5.90802@sweetapp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> You'd have to declare any variable global, or declare it local, or it
> could be a function name (defined with def) or a function arg (in the
> function scope), or maybe you could also declare things like loop
> indices.  If it wasn't one of the above, the compiler would flag it.

OK. The Python compiler would check that the name is declared but it 
would not check that it is defined before use? So this would be acceptable:

def foo():
     local x
     return x

>>OK. Would it work on a per-module basis or globally?
> 
> Whatever perl does.  I think that means per-module where the option is
> given as "use strict" inside the module.

>>>def do_add(x->str, y->str):
>>>      return '%s://%s' % (x, y)
>>>def do_something(node->Node):
>>>      if node.namespace == XML_NAMESPACE:
>>>          return do_add('http://', node.namespace)
>>>      elif node.namespace == ...
>>
>>Wouldn't an error be generated because XML_NAMESPACE is not declared?
> 
> 
> XML_NAMESPACE would be declared in the xml.dom module and the type
> info would carry over through the import.

Problems:
1. your type checking system is optional and xml.dom does not use it
1a. even if xml.dom did declare the type, what if the type were declared
     conditionally e.g.

     try:
          unicode
     except NameError:
          XML_NAMESPACE<str> = "..."
     else:
          XML_NAMESPACE<unicode> = u"..."

2. the compiler does not have access to the names in other modules
    anyway


>>And I notice that you are not doing any checking that "namespace" is a
>>valid attribute of the node object. Aren't the typos class of error
>>that you are looking to catch just as likely to occur for attributes
>>as variables?
> 
> 
> The node object is declared to be a Node instance and if the Node
> class definition declares a fixed list of slots, then the compiler
> would know the slot names and check them.

How would you find the class definition for the Node object at 
compile-time? And by "slots" do you mean the existing Python slots 
concept or something new?

> If the Node class doesn't
> declare fixed slots, then they're dynamic and are looked up at runtime
> in the usual way.

So only pre-defined slotted attributes would be accessable (if the 
object uses slots). So the following would not work:

foo = Foo() # slots defined
foo.my_attribute = 'bar'
print foo.my_attribute

Cheers,
Brian


From nochiel at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 21:15:49 2005
From: nochiel at gmail.com (yoda)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 18:15:49 -0700
Subject: setuptools, ez_setup over http proxy
Message-ID: <1129252549.899651.327160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've recently configured my network such that I use squid as a http
proxy.  I'd now like to be able to use setuptools and ez_setup via this
proxy.  Is this possible? If so, how do I do it?

The most that the setuptools documentation says is
(http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools):

"....If you are behind an NTLM-based firewall that prevents Python
programs from accessing the net directly, you may wish to first install
and use the APS proxy server, which lets you get past such firewalls in
the same way that your web browser(s) do....."

ps. I'm not sure that this is the right forum for this question.  If it
isn't feel free to point me to the right place.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 20:13:18 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:13:18 -0700
Subject: python plotting with greek symbols within labels recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhv5qt$hdv$1@sea.gmane.org>

michael.s.gilbert at gmail.com wrote:
> hello all,
> 
> this message is geared toward those of you in the scientific community.
> i'm looking for a python plotting library that can support rendering
> greek symbols and other various characters on plot axes labels, etc. I
> would prefer something that adheres to tex formatting (as implemented
> in latex, matlab, etc and has the form $\alpha$ to represent the greek
> character alpha for example).
> 
> thus far, i've found that matplotlib
> (http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/) can do this, albeit the
> implementation is so poor that you cannot mix standard text with
> symbols on the same plot element.

And, incidentally, if you're only interested in letters and symbols
strung out horizontally with the Latin characters rather than formula
layout, you can use Unicode if your font supports it:

In [41]: s
Out[41]: u'This is \u0393reek to me'

In [42]: rc('font', serif=['Code2000'])

In [43]: title(s)

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From alf at merlin.fayauffre.org  Mon Oct  3 10:23:11 2005
From: alf at merlin.fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:23:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: morphological image processing in Python
Message-ID: <slrndk2fm5.cck.alf@localhost.localdomain>

Hello,

I'm about to start a project which will involve some greyscale image
processing using morphological operators (erosion, dilation, distance
transforms...), and I was wondering if these operators were available in
Python through some open source libraries. 

A quick google search returned pymorphpro[1], which is unfortunately not
free software, and there also seem to be something available in ITK [2].
Unless I'm mistaken, the PIL does not provide these operations, nore do
Numeric/numarray/scipy. 

Have I missed the one true Python mathematical morphology toolbox?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[1] http://www.mmorph.com/pymorphpro/index.html
[2] http://www.itk.org/

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle                              LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 05:51:29 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:51:29 +0200
Subject: os.access with wildcards
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <di5gf1$tkb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Leif K-Brooks wrote:

>>    os.access(path,mode)
>>
>> where path may contain linux style wildcards.
>
> os.access(glob.glob(path), mode)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: access() argument 1 must be string, not list

it's not clear from the OP if he wants

    [os.access(file, mode) for file in glob.glob(path))]

    os.access(glob.glob(path)[0], mode)

or, most likely, simply

    if glob.glob(path):
        ... some matching file exists ...

</F> 





From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 26 07:46:07 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:46:07 +0100
Subject: p2exe using wine/cxoffice
In-Reply-To: <djn6pa$dc5$2@sea.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.327.1126647088.509.python-list@python.org>	<rcaii1h463ojaita1t4hbin0g3filgfoen@4ax.com>	<200509151243.53106.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<djn6pa$dc5$2@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <djnq9v$7tn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jon Perez wrote:
> James Stroud wrote:
> 
> 
>>"better". The only reason I want this functionality is to make my software
>>available to windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they are
>>people too. That's what I always say.
> 
> 
> Actually, I think it's many unix/linux users who are ignorant of just
> how nice, stable and productive Windows can be as a desktop environment.
> 
> ... and I really mean that.  ;-).
> 
> 
> 
> Ever since Win2K got rid of the constant blue screens, the reasons for
> switching over to Linux have grown less and less urgent.
> 
> The 'Nix desktop environments are growing visibly more mature with each
> passing year, but device support in Linux is still decidedly inferior and
> it still takes far too much time to do some things you take for granted
> under Windoze.
> 
> I'm experienced enough with Linux that I can customize a distribution
> like Slackware to a fair extent, but for desktop work, I stay in Windows
> almost exclusively.
> 
> I have this bunch of Linux zealots in a mailing list to thank for
> encouraging me to realize how good Windows can be.
> 
I too am a regular Windows user, despite a dislike for Microsoft's 
marketing shenanigans. If you need a Linux/UNIX-like system there's 
Cygwin, and if nothing but a real Linux kernel will do there's coLinux, 
which I started using recently. The major pain with coLinux is that most 
of the developers are Linux types, so reliable information about 
integration into the Windows environment can be hard to come by. But I'm 
getting there ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Tue Oct 18 08:35:45 2005
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan Rajagopal)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:05:45 +0530
Subject: popen4
References: <Fnz4f.39703$133.25538@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<wzslv0ftoj.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<JI55f.42727$133.9526@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <xkvhpsq32eam.fsf@grajagop-lnx.cisco.com>

>>>>> "billie" == billie  <mlist at fastwebnet.it> writes:

> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>> I think you need something like pyexpect for this.

> PyExpect seems to be no more mantained.

Try pexpect instead. http://pexpect.sourceforce.net/

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan Rajagopal (rganesan at debian.org) | GPG Key: 1024D/5D8C12EA
Web: http://employees.org/~rganesan        | http://rganesan.blogspot.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 07:29:07 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:29:07 +0200
Subject: Run process with timeout
References: <1129547240.998935.126970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4kw2y.1r4xzk31tnakucN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Natan <natanvivo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> I have a python script under linux where I poll many hundreds of
> interfaces with mrtg every 5 minutes. Today I create some threads and
> use os.system(command) to run the process, but some of them just hang.
> I would like to terminate the process after 15 seconds if it doesn't
> finish, but os.system() doesn't have any timeout parameter.
> 
> Can anyone help me on what can I use to do this?

Use the subprocess module.  With a subprocess.Popen object, you can then
sleep a while, check (with .poll()) if it's finished, otherwise kill it
(use its .pid attribute).


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 22 05:03:02 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:03:02 +0100
Subject: Psycopg2 date problems: "Can't adapt"
In-Reply-To: <4359314E.70906@ghaering.de>
References: <4358F620.7040107@holdenweb.com> <4359314E.70906@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <435A0046.9080909@holdenweb.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>I'm trying to copy data from an Access database to PostgreSQL, as the 
>>latter now appears to work well in the Windows environment. However I'm 
>>having trouble with date columns. [...]
>>Here's the problem in a nutshell:
>>
>> >>> d
>><DateTime object for '2003-10-02 00:00:00.00' at af9be0>
>> >>> ocurs.execute("DELETE FROM Lines")
> 
> 
> This repr looks like a mxDateTime object. psycopg does include adapters
> for mxDateTime, but in order for them to be built, the mxDateTime
> sources and headers must be made available at psycopg build time
> (because it interfaces mxDateTime at the C extension level, unlike most
> if not all other Python DB-API adapters).
> 
> A quick look at its setup.py reveals a have_mxdatetime variable and a
> check that decides wether to build with mxDateTime support or not. So,
> if it does not find mxDateTime, it builds without support for it. Which
> is apparently what you're experiencing.
> 
Indeed it does. I am using a pre-compiled installer. Many thanks for 
your help.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 26 13:14:50 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:14:50 -0000
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<11lv66njrkkln8b@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns96FBB65CE3EB0duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <11lvecag5rlos8a@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-26, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Uh, no.  Isn't what we're doing here top-quoting?  The quoted
>> stuff is at the top. Everything is in chronological order.  I
>> think what you're referring to is "top-posting".
>
> Yes, Iain King already pointed this out.

Sorry for being rudundent -- I've only been sporadically
reading this thread.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm sitting on my
                                  at               SPEED QUEEN... To me,
                               visi.com            it's ENJOYABLE... I'm
                                                   WARM... I'm VIBRATORY...


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 22:36:32 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:36:32 -0600
Subject: [OT] Re: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2500.1130205850.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>	<200510241425.45538.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2500.1130205850.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XLOdnfAZisSgB8DenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com>

darren kirby wrote:
> quoth the Fredrik Lundh:
> 
>>(using either on the output from glob.glob is just plain silly, of course)
> 
[snip]
> 
> It is things like this that make me wary of posting to this list, either to 
> help another, or with my own q's. All I  usually want is help with a specific 
> problem, not a critique involving  how brain-dead my code is. I'm a beginner, 
> of course my code is going to be brain-dead ;)

I wouldn't fret too much about a sharp remark from Fredrik Lundh. 
They're pretty much all that way. ;) It looks like you already did the 
right thing - read past the insults, and gleaned the useful information 
that he included in between.  It takes a little training to get used to 
him, but if you can look past the nasty bite, he's really a valuable 
resource around here.

STeVe


From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 15 23:07:33 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:07:33 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...

> Which standards? W3C doesn't make standards (they talk about working
> drafts and recommendations), so nothing to warp there for MS.

Umm, a recommendation *is* a standard.

And Microsoft must disagree with you.  When the spec editor for XML took a 
consulting gig with Netsacpe, they insisted he be fired.  (See 
http://www.textuality.com/xml/Opinion.html)




From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Thu Oct 20 07:18:53 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:18:53 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
> news:33sj23-6om.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>> Not if they abuse a monopoly position in doing so, which is where we
>> started.

>     In other words, what they did was wrong because it was them who did it. 

No, do not twist words. What they did was wrong, no matter what their
name was. If somebody else had done that it would alsobe wrong.

> It is fine if anyone else does, just not fine if Microsoft does it.

Nope.

>     And what is it they have a monopoly in again? Operating systems?

O/ses on PC platforms, as determined by the courts. Thanks to their
initial agreement with IBM, and subsequent nasty tactics.

>     Can you cite any rational reason whatsoever for defining the market so 
> ridiculously narrowly? Of course not.

I define whatever you are talking about the way it is, unlike you, who
seem to define whatever it is the way you like. So go 'way 'n be
happy.  The world has spoken.

Peter


From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct  9 09:22:44 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:22:44 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote or quoted:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:19:29 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:
> > Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com>:

> >>WHat the hell has that got to do with HTML email?  Sending photos
> >>is an example of what attachments are for.
> > 
> > Normally you send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.
> 
> No, normally YOU send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.
> My grandma doesn't put captions in her photo album, and she doesn't need
> captions on her photos in email.
> 
> > That is far more convenient for the technopeasant receiver than
> > dealing with multiple attachments.
> 
> Only if your photos are so obscure and confusing that they need captions.
> 
> "Here's Johnny with the dog. Here is Johnny with the dog again. This one
> is Johnny on his own. Here is the dog. Oh look, it is Johnny with the dog
> again -- that's the dog on the left, in case it isn't clear. Just for a
> change, this is Johnny wearing a hat. It is blue with a feather in it,
> in case you couldn't tell from, oh I don't know, looking at the actual
> picture."

What have you got against captions?

Giving photos captions is a *very* common practice.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From dwahler at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 21:47:05 2005
From: dwahler at gmail.com (David  Wahler)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 18:47:05 -0800
Subject: Where to save classes? How to access classes?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2757.1130811960.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2757.1130811960.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130813225.828441.241820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


David Mitchell wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to get into the object oriented aspect of Python. If I create
> a custom class (in it's own file), how do I access that class in a
> function in a different file? In Java there's the notion of a CLASSPATH,
> where you can tell the compiler to look for classes. Is there something
> similar to this in Python?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave

Python is a little different than Java in this respect. Whereas Java
loads code one public class at a time, Python loads it in modules,
where a module is (generally speaking) one source file.

Say you have a file, foo.py:
###############################
class Xyz:
    def do_stuff(self):
        pass

class Abc:
    def do_more_stuff(self):
        pass
###############################

Then in another file, inserting the statement "import foo" will execute
foo.py and make its global variables available as part of an object
called "foo". There is no automatic loading by class and package name
like Java does it. Once you've done this, you can access the members
using expressions such as "foo.Xyz" e.g. "foo.Xyz().do_stuff()".

As for the search path: sys.path (the path attribute of the sys module)
is a list of directories which are searched, in order, for modules
specified by "import". By default this is the current directory
followed by a few standard Python library directories; most of the time
you shouldn't need to change it, at least for simple projects.

Hope this helps,

-- David



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Oct 10 09:28:36 2005
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:28:36 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <434A6C84.7090004@rogers.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>George Sakkis <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:
>   ...
>  
>
>>>manipulation of a heap to place an item in the right spot, but with 4-5
>>>or a few more sources might not make an impact at all.
>>>      
>>>
>>Unless you're talking about hundreds or thousands sources, it probably
>>won't. I would still go for the heap solution since IMO the resulting
>>code it's more readable and easier to understand.
>>    
>>
...

>i.e., a heap solution may be over 4 times faster than a sort-based one
>(in the following implementations).  Readability seems quite comparable
>(skipping the rest of the infrastructure, which generates random sorted
>streams and ensures a stream is exhausted and verifies it etc etc):
>  
>
One thing to keep in mind (if you care about performance) is that you 
one could use bisect, instead of sort, as the sorted list of streams is 
already in order save for the one element you are processing.  Btw, nice 
trick with reverse to reduce memory copying, when did that get 
introduced?  Wonder if bisect can deal with reverse-sorted elements.  
Anyway, should reduce the O-complexity of that part of the operation, 
though you'll still have to do a memcpy to shift the rest of the source 
list's array, and if it can't deal with reverse-sorted lists it would 
move you back to front-of-list popping.

Oh, we're still missing use of a comparison function in both versions. 
I'd think you'd want that functionality *available* if you're going to 
make this a general tool.  You'll also need to check for StopIteration 
on creation of sources for null sequences.  Finally, why  the 'i' 
element?  It's never used AFAICS.

>def merge_by_sort(streams):
>  sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next] for i, s in enumerate(streams)]
>  while sources:
>    sources.sort(reverse=True)
>    best_source = sources[-1]
>    yield best_source[0]
>    try: best_source[0] = best_source[-1]()
>    except StopIteration: sources.pop()
>  
>
...

Have fun,
Mike

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From renting at astron.nl  Wed Oct 12 08:58:18 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:58:18 +0200
Subject: IDLE dedent/unindent key bindings for non-us keybord?
Message-ID: <s34d2498.048@server7.nfra.nl>

You could try using the Qscintilla based Eric3 IDE, it uses Ctrl-i and Ctrl-Shift-i. 
 
>>><gjohannes at gmail.com> 10/02/05 5:52 pm >>> 
|What could be wrong here, and do you have any other suggestions for a 
|"dedent" key binding that may work on a non-us/swedish keyboard (or 
|maybe an alternative editor for python code). 
| 
|Thanks. 
| 
|


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 21 23:58:42 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:58:42 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:47:43 -0700, T Beck wrote:

> So what I'm getting here is, that they abused their monopoly power to
> secure their initial deal with IBM.  

No they didn't. They didn't have a monopoly -- they didn't even have a
product. (Lying to IBM, while unethical, is not against the law.)

Microsoft's success is directly attributable to one thing: the US
Department of Justice was investigating IBM for abuse of *their* monopoly
position, and where threatening to split IBM up.

Since the DoJ back in the 1970s actually had teeth, IBM was seriously
concerned to not only obey the law, but also been seen to obey the law. So
even though they were quite capable of creating their own operating system
for the PC, they went out and licenced a third-party product.

Unfortunately, in IBM's rush to sign an agreement quickly, they allowed
Microsoft to pressure them into a licence where they paid for every PC
that they shipped whether or not it had DOS on it.

> Nobody made IBM sign that deal, IBM thought that it
> worked out OK for both parties.  As for later deals with OEM
> manufacturers, if it's OK for MS to make that deal with IBM, 

It isn't okay. It is anti-competitive behaviour, and should be discouraged.

> then why
> does it suddenly become an "abuse of their power" if they're using the
> same business model?

That's basic economics. Something which can be allowed or ignored or even
encouraged when done by small businesses in a competitive market can
easily become harmful and bad for the economy when done by a monopolist or
duopolist in an uncompetitive market.


-- 
Steven.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 13 02:02:11 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:02:11 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
	<lnu0fmw762.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
Message-ID: <kvtrk1h7kjdjrqh25uli6dqe38g1o850v6@4ax.com>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:13:28 GMT, Keith Thompson <kst-u at mib.org> wrote
or quoted :

>A partial solution to spam, or at least to pollution of Usenet
>newsgroups, would be to STOP POSTING THIS STUFF TO NEWSGROUPS WHERE
>IT'S NOT RELEVANT.

Technically yes. But those folk in the appropriate newsgroups have had
years to solve this and all we hear is despair. They are too concerned
with the day to day alligator swamp draining to think about the big
picture.. Perhaps it is time to toss the problem in front of a less
beaten down group of potential problem solvers.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct 20 12:21:46 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:21:46 -0500
Subject: Modules and Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2314.1129822356.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2314.1129822356.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FuWdnZ5uIP6BWcreRVn-hg@comcast.com>

One way is to pass the RS object when you instantiate
an instance of srfBase, something like:

 class srfBase:
     '''Base class inherited by the srf* classes, binding general Rhino
 surface functionality to a particular
     surface generation method'''
     def __init__(self, RS):
         self.id   = 'self.id srfBase'
         self.RS=RS
         return
     def isBrep(self):
         return self.RS.IsBrep(self.id)
     def isPointInSurface(self, coord):
         return self.RS.IsPointInSurface(self.id, coord)

This is how most of wxWindows seems to do things.

-Larry Bates

Jelle Feringa / EZCT Architecture & Design Research wrote:
> ##I'm sorry to stir up such a well discussed topic yet again, but namespaces
> are a point of confusion to me...
> 
> I took the effort of organizing my Python code (scripting a cad program
> calles Rhino) in well defined classes, which would be a terrific thing if I
> didn't got stuck in namespace issues.
> 
> I have a module that launches the application I'm scripting via win32com;
> rhino.load
> 
> from rhino import load
> RS = load.RS
> 
> So the application, with all its methods are now available through the RS
> (RhinoScript) object
> 
> from rhino import SRF # is where things get stuck
> 
> The RS object is the application scripted via COM, where all its method
> reside.
> In my module, SRF, I'm not importing anything, though it refers to the RS
> object all the time.
> Such as:
> 
> class srfBase:
>     '''Base class inherited by the srf* classes, binding general Rhino
> surface functionality to a particular
>     surface generation method'''
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.id   = 'self.id srfBase'
>         pass
>     def isBrep(self):
>         return RS.IsBrep(self.id)
>     def isPointInSurface(self, coord):
>         return RS.IsPointInSurface(self.id, coord)
> 
> 
> How do I make the RS object available to the imported SRF module, such that
> my module code and program code both refer to RS as the application object
> being scripted?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jelle.
> 
> 


From cdkrug at worldnet.att.net  Tue Oct 11 09:33:49 2005
From: cdkrug at worldnet.att.net (Charles Krug)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:33:49 GMT
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<200510071643.11162.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<di83sd$v87$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1854.1128976926.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1bP2f.411576$5N3.403364@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:46:34 -0500, Terry Hancock
<hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> On Saturday 08 October 2005 04:35 am, Steve Holden wrote:
>> I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for 
>> embiggening prices.
> 
> Not nearly as much as the DoD, from what I hear.
> 
> Truthfully, I think those stories are bit exaggerated -- I think the
> real problem is somebody making a bad make/buy decision. They decide
> to make something that they could easily have bought at the hardware
> store.
> 

Typically, it was a $30 hammer with $270 worth of paperwork attached.

The famous "$10k Toilet Seat" is actually a bit of an interesting tale.

The part in question is the toilet from a C5A transport . . not
something you can purchase at the local Home Depot.

Being an aircraft toilet, it's crammed into a tiny space and has to be
as light as possible and all the things you associate with aircraft
toilets.

When they were speccing the project, the airframe manufacturer included
some number of spare toilet seats in the bid, given the expected life of
the airframe.  Some faceless bureaucrat decided that they didn't NEED
any spare toilet seats and cancelled that line item.

Lo and Behold, they eventually needed spare toilet seats.  But because
of Another Good Regulation (tm) the tooling had been recycled.

Recreating the tooling to make the spares was, amortized over the number
ordered, around $10k/seat.  Compared to the tooling costs, subsequent
orders of the same seat are pretty much "free" . . . at least until some
bozo in Ring A decides to toss the tooling again.



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 27 19:48:38 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:48:38 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7rZ7f.6819$dO2.5775@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<djppjp$t5s$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <qHd8f.6518$BZ5.2214@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>


"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote in message 
news:djppjp$t5s$1 at nntp.webmaster.com...
> Mike Schilling wrote:
>
>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote in message
>> news:djpf90$pbm$1 at nntp.webmaster.com...
>
>>>    There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one
>>> preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to
>>> other with minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do
>>> compete with Windows PCs.
>
>> There's a huge difference to the non-techy consumer.  One of the
>> buggest reasons Linux has had a reputation of being harder to use
>> than Windows was the fact that Linux had to be installed, while
>> Windows just booted up.
>
>    Is that really true? I mean, I remember distributions of Linux that you 
> could just stick in the CD, boot from CD, and you were up in minutes. 
> Installing was as simple as pushing the 'install to hard drive' button.

If all of the hardware is known to Linux, that can work, and Linux has 
gotten much better at being able to recognize and auto-configure lots of 
devices.

But picture that, when this was less true, you wanted to buy a machine with 
the newest-whizbang graphics card or disk controller.  For Windows, the 
manufacturer would make sure the proper drivers are installed and 
configured.  For Linux, you the consumer had to find a driver, install it, 
configure it (the phrase "drive geometry" sticks in my head) and deal with 
the lack of useful feedback if anything goes wrong.

I haven't tried to install Windows since Windows 95 was current.  I recall 
that as being pretty horrible, but for different reasons.  There was a step 
where, after the basic OS had been installed onto the hard drive, and it was 
time to sense other devices.  Half the time, this would simply hang the 
computer, and you'd have to start over from scratch.  Most of the rest of 
the time, it would find most of the devices and make really awful guesses 
about the rest, like thinking the sound card was a CD player.  I suspect 
this works better these days too. 




From david_blomstrom at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 21:22:24 2005
From: david_blomstrom at yahoo.com (David Blomstrom)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:22:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djmkbj$og4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <20051026012224.32848.qmail@web60420.mail.yahoo.com>

A bit off topic, but it amazes me that people in the
web design/Internet industry don't take a more active
stance against Microsoft.

Think about it: The health care industry has been
privatized in the U.S. I spent sixteen years in
education, another institution that has been
privatized. (It has largely become another Microsoft
subsidiary.)

So here we have web designers, who are among the
freest people in the world, able to choose their
specialties, hours, fees and even where they work. Yet
they surrender to Microsoft's "standards" without a
fight.

Frankly, I think every self-respecting webmaster ought
to be campaigning against Microsoft on their websites.
Tiny, simple messages like "Microsoft-Free" or "If you
like George AWOL Bush, you'll love Bill Gates," could
go a long ways in educating the public.



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Mon Oct 24 15:58:20 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:58:20 GMT
Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
References: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <w1b7f.6739$tV6.5378@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>

the title should say "python cgi script html output not understood as html"


Philippe C. Martin wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The following code outputs the actual HTML text to the browser, not the
> interpreted text.
> 
> Any idea ?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Philippe
> import cgi
> import logging
> import auth #this is the one you must implement (or use SCF ;-)
> 
> html_ok = """
> Content-Type: text/html\n
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">\n
> <html>\n
> <head>\n
>   <title>Access Granted</title>\n
>   <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Quanta Plus">\n
>   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=koi8-r">\n
> </head>\n
> <body>\n
>     <H1>Access Granted</H1>\n
> <HR>\n
>     <H4>Welcome %s </H4>\n
> <HR>\n
> </body>\n
> </html>\n
> """
> 
> html_nok = """
> "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
> <html>
> 
> <head>
>   <title>Access Granted</title>
>   <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Quanta Plus">
>   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=koi8-r">
> </head>
> <body>
>     <H1>Access Denied</H1>
> <HR>
> 
> 
> </body>
> </html>
> """
> # DISPLAY ACCESS DENIED PAGE
> def Failure():
>     print html_nok
>     
> #DISPLAY ACCESS GRANTED PAGE
> def Success(p_data):
>     print html_ok % (p_data)



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Oct 30 17:18:49 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 22:18:49 +0000
Subject: Using Python to add thumbnails to Explorer
References: <djocih$msn$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>
	<1130355747_658@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<djoqn3$s0d$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>
	<1130373382_7@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <87k6fuabsm.fsf@pobox.com>

"Roger Upole" <rupole at hotmail.com> writes:
> "c d saunter" <christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk> wrote in message news:djoqn3$s0d$1 at heffalump.dur.ac.uk...
[...]
> > Turns out I need to use a .dll shell extension as per
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/
> > shellcc/platform/shell/programmersguide/shell_int/shell_int_extending/
> > extensionhandlers/shell_ext.asp
> >
> > Not so simple, and not (directly) a job for Python.
> 
> Sorry, I didn't realize you meant per-file.
> However, Pythoncom supports both the interfaces
> (IExtractIcon and IPersistFile) specified on the page
> you referenced, so you ought to be able to implement
> an icon handler with the Pywin32 extensions.

Or, if not, then you can do it with module ctypes.

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/


There's an O'Reilly book called something like "win32 shell
programming" that covers this stuff.


John



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Oct 25 11:32:51 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:32:51 -0500
Subject: Math markup in code documentation?
In-Reply-To: <1130251116.027733.123750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130251116.027733.123750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510251032.51100.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:38 am, schwehr at gmail.com wrote:
> Done any one have a way (and examples) of how to do math markups in the
> docstrings of function and class definitions such that the equations
> get typeset in the generated html documentation?  I'll take any markup
> system that'll do the job... MathML or LaTeX possible?

epydoc has some capacity for rendering equations and math symbols. I'm
not sure if it supports the full range of TeX expressions.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 21 18:44:32 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:44:32 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43596d47$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Casey Hawthorne wrote:
> I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
> about
> 10,000 lines in C++
> it is about
> 5,000 lines in Java
> and it is about
> 3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)

My experience is that Java:Python is roughly 2:1, the highest I have seen (on small bits of code) is 3:1.

Kent


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 27 04:57:26 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:57:26 +0200
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
Message-ID: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de>

I have a list of items and a "rule" for ordering them.

Unfortunately, the rule is not complete so it won't define the correct 
order for any two items in that list.

In other words, if I pick two random items from the list I may or may 
not have a rule that dictates the order of those two items. The rule 
could be "implicit" in that I got rules for other items, for instance:

[a, b, c, d]
a < b
b < c

If I now pick a and c out of the list I would not know wether a or c 
comes first, unless I grab the rules for a<b and b<c and imply that a<c 
from those two.

As such, there could be potentially many correct results from ordering 
such a list. (d is unspecified above so any position for d is actually 
legal)

Is there anything in Python that will help me sort a list with something 
like this ?

For instance, given the following list of items:

items = ["a", "b", "c", "d"]

and the following two rules:

"a" comes before "d"
"d" comes before "b"

then the following is a list of correct results (could be more though):

["a", "d", "b", "c"]
["a", "c", "d", "b"]
["a", "d", "c", "b"]
...

Note that this is an arbitrary example. The real list is a list of lists 
containing database rows, ie. something like this:

[[10, "Column 2", "Column 3"],
  [15, "Column 2", "Column 3"],
  ...]

If there isn't anything built in, does anyone have an idea about how to 
go about creating such an ordering function ? Tweaking a cmp-like 
function to return 0 for "undefined" didn't seem to work so there must 
be a slightly more intelligent solution than that. Perhaps the rules 
would have to be checked in a specific order.

Doing a combinatorial solution and checking the rules aren't really an 
option as on last count there was close to 20K rows.

There's also a lot of rules (also coming from a database). I was 
thinking I could do a sort based on one of the rules and use a stable 
sort for the following rules but doing that sometimes rearranged the 
list so that it was now incorrect going by the previous rules.

Here's my initial test for doing a cmp-like solution:

order = set([("a", "d"), ("d", "b")])
def my_cmp(a, b):
     if (a, b) in order:
         print a, "<", b
         return -1
     elif (b, a) in order:
         print a, "<", b
         return +1
     else:
         print a, "?", b
         return 0

items = ["c", "b", "a", "d"]
items.sort(cmp=my_cmp)
print items

This prints out:

b ? c
a ? b
d < a
['c', 'b', 'a', 'd']

Which is obviously incorrect.

Any help or pointers would be most welcome.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 06:20:47 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:20:47 +0200
Subject: p2exe using wine/cxoffice
References: <mailman.327.1126647088.509.python-list@python.org>
	<rcaii1h463ojaita1t4hbin0g3filgfoen@4ax.com>
	<200509151243.53106.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<mailman.2575.1130313112.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlulvu.cle.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Jon Perez enlightened us with:
> Actually, I think it's many unix/linux users who are ignorant of
> just how nice, stable and productive Windows can be as a desktop
> environment.

I thought the same thing after spending two hours removing some adware
I found.

> Ever since Win2K got rid of the constant blue screens, the reasons
> for switching over to Linux have grown less and less urgent.

One thing in Linux (Gnome actually) that I miss in Windows, is that in
the latter you need to grab the title bar of a window to move it, and
the edge to resize it. In Gnome, I can press the ALT key and drag the
window with the left mouse button and resize it by dragging with the
right mouse button. When moving, it doesn't matter where your cursor
is, as long as it's inside the window. For resizing, it grabs the
closest corner and moves that.

It's like having a scrollwheel on your mouse. If you've never used
such a thing you don't miss it, but if you're used to it, it's a major
annoyance when it's gone.

> The 'Nix desktop environments are growing visibly more mature with
> each passing year, but device support in Linux is still decidedly
> inferior and it still takes far too much time to do some things you
> take for granted under Windoze.

When I replaced my CPU, motherboard and RAM, I had to reinstall
Windows and all applications. Linux just booted. When I upgrade my
video card, Linux just accepts it without even a single message. On
Windows I have to do a reinstall of the video drivers.

I think that everybody is influenced by their own experience. Here are
a few of my reasons to run Linux, besides the ones already mentioned:

    - Window management in Linux is separate from the application.
      That means that a non-responsive (crashed or just very busy)
      application can still be minimized or moved.

    - If I log in and my desktop is shown, I can start working
      immediately. No need to wait for all sorts of things in the
      system tray to start up first.

    - Software installation on Linux usually works via the
      distribution's package manager, so it's one application for
      almost every software install. It also automatically downloads
      and installs all required libraries etc.

    - No need to defragment my harddisk.

    - No viruses/spyware.

There are only two downsides I notice:

    - There are some games I want to play which aren't available on
      Linux. That's the only reason I run Windows, btw.

    - I have to be a little more picky about the hardware I buy.


Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Oct 25 08:28:29 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:28:29 -0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130237717.557334.277910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<87ll0hlu4c.fsf@ieee.org>
	<1130241945.093223.25210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87acgxlr0y.fsf@ieee.org>

"Joerg Schuster" <joerg.schuster at gmail.com> writes:

>> but what is the reason for so much capturing groups?  I
>> imagine that coding this and keeping code maintenable is a huge effort.
>
> User input is compiled to regular expressions. The user does not have
> to worry about those groups.

And what is the problem with something like getopt, optparse, etc.? 

And 10K groups on a single input line?  

-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 16 23:32:31 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:32:31 GMT
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>
	<4352289a$0$15038$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <4353085a.192466642@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:16:58 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> Perhaps string equivalence in keys will be treated like numeric equivalence?
>> I.e., a key/name representation is established by the initial key/name binding, but
>> values can be retrieved by "equivalent" key/names with different representations
>> like unicode vs ascii or latin-1 etc.?
>
>That would require that you know the encoding of a byte string; this
>information is not available at run-time.
>
Well, what will be assumed about name after the lines

#-*- coding: latin1 -*-
name = 'Martin L?wis' 

?
I know type(name) will be <type 'str'> and in itself contain no encoding information now,
but why shouldn't the default assumption for literal-generated strings be what the coding
cookie specified? I know the current implementation doesn't keep track of the different
encodings that could reasonably be inferred from the source of the strings, but we are talking
about future stuff here ;-)

>You could also try all possible encodings to see whether the strings
>are equal if you chose the right encoding for each one. This would
>be both expensive and unlike numeric equivalence: in numeric 
>equivalence, you don't give a sequence of bytes all possible
>interpretations to find some interpretation in which they are
>equivalent, either.
>
Agreed, that would be a mess.

>There is one special case, though: when comparing a byte string
>and a Unicode string, the system default encoding (i.e. ASCII)
>is assumed. This only really works if the default encoding
>really *is* ASCII. Otherwise, equal strings might not hash
>equal, in which case you wouldn't find them properly in a
>dictionary.
>
Perhaps the str (or future byte) type could have an encoding attribute
defaulting to None, meaning to treat its instances as a current str instances.
Then setting the attribute to some particular encoding, like 'latin-1' (probably
internally normalized and optimized to be represented as a c pointer slot with a
NULL or a pointer to an appropriate codec or whatever) would make the str byte
string explicitly an encoded string, without changing the byte string data or
converting to a unicode encoding. With encoding information explicitly present
or absent, keys could have a normalized hash and comparison, maybe just normalizing
to platform utf for dict encoding-tagged string keys by default.

If this were done, IWT the automatic result of

#-*- coding: latin1 -*-
name = 'Martin L?wis' 

could be that name.encoding == 'latin-1'

whereas without the encoding cookie, the default encoding assumption
for the program source would be used, and set explicitly to 'ascii'
or whatever it is.

Functions that generate strings, such as chr(), could be assumed to create
a string with the same encoding as the source code for the chr(...) invocation.
Ditto for e.g. '%s == %c' % (65, 65)
And
    s = u'Martin L?wis'.encode('latin-1')
would get
    s.encoding == 'latin-1'
not
    s.encoding == None
so that the encoding information could make
    print s
mean
    print s.decode(s.encoding)
(which of course would re-encode to the output device encoding for output, like current
print s.decode('latin-1') and not fail like the current default assumption for s encoding
which is s.encoding==None, i.e., assume default, which is likely print s.decode('ascii'))

Hm, probably
    s.encode(None)
and
    s.decode(None)
could mean retrieve the str byte data unchanged as a str string with encoding set to None
in the result either way.

Now when you read a file in binary without specifying any encoding assumption, you
would get a str string with .encoding==None, but you could effectively reinterpret-cast it
to any encoding you like by assigning the encoding attribute. The attribute
could be a property that causes decode/encode automatically to create data in the
new encoding. The None encoding would coming or going would not change the data bytes, but
differing explicit encodings would cause decode/encode.

This could also support s1+s2 to mean generate a concatenated string
that has the same encoding attribute if s1.encoding==s2.encoding and otherwise promotes
each to the platform standard unicode encoding and concatenates those if they
are different (and records the unicode encoding chosen in the result's encoding
attribute).

This is not a fully developed idea, and there has been discussion on the topic before
(even between us ;-) but I thought another round might bring out your current thinking
on it ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Wed Oct 26 08:50:40 2005
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:50:40 +0200
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051026125040.6771.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Xah Lee wrote:

> in some online documentations, for examples:
> 
> http://perldoc.perl.org/perlref.html
> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-17.html
> http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellDemo
> 
> the codes are syntax colored.
> 
> Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?

It is and its called highlight (available in most linux distributions)

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

Gravity isn't MY fault--I voted for velcro!


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct  7 13:44:07 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:44:07 -0400
Subject: os.access with wildcards
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
	<mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128698792.787399.160460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86psqhnrx4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"mike" <no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com> writes:

> Test for the existence of one or more matches of the wildcard
> expression.
>
> For example:
>
>     Are there any files that begin with 2005?
>
> This doesn't work (wish it did):
>      os.access('2005*',os.F_OK)

I would considering it suprising if it worked. os.access is for
testing access permissions of a single file. There's no reasonn for it
to do glob expansion on the name, as there can be only one such
name. Maybe if it took multiple names, but then you have to decide if
you're going to return the "or" or the "and" of the results of the
test. Or - more - likely - provide an optional argument to specify the
operation.

This is getting ugly. Best just leave it as it is.

> However, these work arounds do the job:
>     glob.glob('2005*')==[]

> [Not very readable.]

Yup. A standard idiom in most languages for testing for a list to be
empty is to check the length of the list:

      len(glob.glob('2005*')) == 0

Which I'd say is more readable. In Python, an empty list is false, so
you can skip the test completely, and just ask for the boolean
negation of the list:

      not glob.glob('2005*')

I'd probably do it that way.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 14:17:38 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 11:17:38 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1746.1128759130.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128732066.947274.206270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1746.1128759130.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128795458.655247.166620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

ugly. i guess this thread shows that you are clueless regarding your
thread crapping.



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Oct  9 16:04:36 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:04:36 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<3qssr4Fgjc2qU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<pan.2005.10.09.18.06.50.384030@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <wzslvalanf.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> (SD) wrote:

>SD> [penny drops] Now we're getting somewhere... a closure is something
>SD> _added_ to a function. So we should talk about functions-without-closures
>SD> and functions-with-closures.

Well, I have never heard that definition. For more than half of my life I
only have heard the definition that a closure is the combination of a
function (i.e. its code) plus an environment containing the unbound
variables. Depending on the language the variables may be bound to values,
memory locations or some other things.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com  Tue Oct 25 05:01:04 2005
From: uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com (uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 02:01:04 -0700
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

unfortunately the result from py2exe won't run eventhough the original
script runs without problems. The trouble is I'm at a loss as to where
to start looking!

Martin.



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 20:52:13 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:52:13 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86psq2wcoy.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:
>>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.

If you genuinely believe that, you are delusional.

   <mike
- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 03:52:33 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:52:33 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<nvr0m1ld2c60kim449rrtiidenogau55ml@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djq101$vnk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:50:07 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one
>> preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to
>> other with minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do
>> compete with Windows PCs.

> You think it is OK to force someone into a choice of committing a
> criminal act with the alternative of losing their established business
> and having to put 8 employees out of work. What religion do you belong
> to?

    You often say things that just seem to have come out of the blue with no 
connection whatsoever to anything else. What criminal act was someone forced 
into committing? What are you talking about?

    If you have a business that sells PCs only because those PCs come 
preloaded with Windows, and without Windows to offer, there would be no 
market, then you have a business that exists at Microsoft's pleasure. The 
same thing would be the case with any piece of software by any manufacturer.

    Now, not all manufacturers would use their leverage, of course. But 
don't you think it would be pretty stupid of them not to? Why shouldn't they 
get from you, and why aren't they entitled to, as much as the ability to 
sell Windows is worth? Since, by your own admission, it's what made it 
possible for you to be in business?

    You say you couldn't stay in business without the ability to sell 
Windows wholesale. That means that every customer you get, in some part you 
owe to Microsoft. Why shouldn't you pay them their fair share of that?

    DS




From niels.ellegaard at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 08:10:39 2005
From: niels.ellegaard at gmail.com (niels.ellegaard at gmail.com)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 05:10:39 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
In-Reply-To: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1128773439.093489.140500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I don't know much about numerical aerodynamics, but assume that you are
interested in a finite element solver. I googled a bit and found the
following projects. The first is a 2d finite element solver for python.
The second is a 2d finite element solver without python.

http://ellipt2d.sourceforge.net/
http://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/cdrom/www/freefem/eng.htm

You can probably find more libraries by looking at http://netlib.org.



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 24 15:25:45 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:25:45 -0500
Subject: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <fvydncshoq8vl8DeRVn-2A@powergate.ca>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org> <868xwj6mgv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<fvydncshoq8vl8DeRVn-2A@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <200510241425.45538.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 24 October 2005 11:24 am, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Answering narrowly, the difference is that using "%s" calls str() on the 
> items in the result list, while your suggestion does not.  ("Why not 
> just use str(f) instead of the less clear '%s' % f?" would be a valid 
> question too though.)

The answer to which, in my experience, is to provide consistency with
code that uses a non-trivial format string, such as '"Error: %s" % f',
and/or to suggest to future developers (including me) that this is the
"right" way to make such changes.

Note also that for those who count, "str(f)" is exactly as long
(in keystrokes) as "'%s'%f", making the "just" a matter of opinion.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From david_blomstrom at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 19:05:45 2005
From: david_blomstrom at yahoo.com (David Blomstrom)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:05:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <3c7sl11bhsjfk2nuedev7drhbqm8ci8c9o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20051025230545.85918.qmail@web60425.mail.yahoo.com>

Time for my two cents regarding this "debate."

I started working on an anti-Microsoft website at
http://www.freedomware.us/ some time ago. I never
really finished it, for several reasons. I was new to
PHP, so it was kind of slow going to begin with. Then
I made some big mistakes that I still haven't found
time to fix.

Another reason is that I was simply overwhelmed by
Bill Gates' crimes. I've lived in Seattle and worked
in its public schools foor nearly two decades. I
became a political activist a few years ago and have
even run for public office several times. Trust me,
the more you learn about Bill Gates, the greater the
stench.

Still another reason my website is unfinished is that
I was one of many teachers who got laid off in the
wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Since then I've
been too busy scrambling to survive to devote much
time to politics.

I can't prove that Bill Gates had anything to do with
it, but I had heard through the grapevine just a year
or two earlier that Bill Gates - who apparently
regards public education as  a Microsoft subsidiary -
wanted to get rid of a bunch of teachers, for reasons
known only to Gates.

I experienced some shocking dirty tricks during my
first bid for public office at the hands of Bill
Gates' father. At the time, I couldn't figured out why
he would care about a school board campaign. That was
before I realized how important students are to Bill
Gates' bank account.

How sleazy is Bill Gates' father? He's a founding
partner of Preston, Gates & Ellis - the lobbying firm
masquerading as a law firm that recently made
front-page headlines as the empoloyer of Jack
Abramoff. But Abramoff isn't the only sleazebag who
associates with Bill Gates, Sr. He may not even be the
only murderer (assuming he's eventually convicted of
murder).

I find it very symbolic that the late pedophile judge,
Gary Little, was a teacher at the Lakeside School for
Boys - perhaps while Bill Gates and Paul Allen were
students there. I wouldn't be at all surprised if
Little and Bill Gates' father were chums, before
Little committed suicide.

The bottom line: I get sick of the tired old argument
that Bill Gates is guilty of nothing more than
excelling at the game of capitalism AND he's one
helluva philanthropist besides.

Bill Gates is a bucket of sleaze, period. He's
obviously intelligent and a hard worker and has
certainly earned million dollars. But he isn't worthy
of billionaire status. That can be attributed to his
disdain for both the law and ethics and to his silent
partner, his father.

And Bill Gates' "philanthropy" is nothing more than
public relations, advertising, tax-writeoffs, bribes.
The jackass even screwed Seattle taxpayers out of
millions of dollars in choosing a home for the Bill
and Melinda Gates Foundation!

To put it in perspective, think about the legacies of
past multi-billionaires, like the Carnegies and
Rockefellers. They left us great institutions, like
libraries. If Bill Gates died to today, what would his
legacy be? "Microsoft Auditorium" in the Seattle
Public Library. A building named "Mary Gates Hall" at
the University of Washington. Schools that get worse
every year, staffed by teachers who can scarcely
afford to live in the city in which they work.

The high-tech community typically disdains politics,
caring little about more than an operating system that
runs the way it should. But politics are all around
us. As one of many examples, people should be worried
about an extrmely powerful and amoral individual named
Bill Gates gaining control of the Internet. Just look
at what the b*stard has alrady done to our schools.



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From bockman at virgilio.it  Mon Oct 31 11:02:29 2005
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:02:29 +0100
Subject: Windows - Need to process quotes in string...
References: <1130771911.508820.82030@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.31.16.02.29.567435@virgilio.it>

Il Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:18:31 -0800, Ernesto ha scritto:

> I'm trying to use a $ delimeter, but it doesn't seem to work.  Here is
> the code:
> 
> 
> launchWithoutConsole("devcon.exe",d'$enable
> "@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"$)
> 
> I want to send the string parameter:
> 
> enable "@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"
> 
> to the program devcon.
> 
> The argument itself is a string, but has quotes inside too.  I've tried
> it many different ways and I keep getting syntax errors.
> 
> Thanks,

Use the single quote to delimit the string, so you can use the double
quote inside it. Like this:

	'enable "@USB\VID_0403&PID_6010&MI_00\7&15E4F68&1&0000"' 

Ciao
-----
FB


From brakjoller at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 07:31:34 2005
From: brakjoller at gmail.com (Mathias Dahl)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:31:34 +0200
Subject: Listening for a certain keypress in the background
Message-ID: <m24q79vld5.fsf@gmail.com>

I have created a Python program that is running on my desktop. 

How can I make it listen for a certain keypress (say, Windows-key +
space) in a controlled fashion even when it is not the program having
focus?

I need to do this running GNOME under Mandrake GN/Linux 10.

/Mathias



From superprad at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 23:09:42 2005
From: superprad at gmail.com (PyPK)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 20:09:42 -0700
Subject: File compare
In-Reply-To: <434D9B93.7090300@websafe.com>
References: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434D9B93.7090300@websafe.com>
Message-ID: <1129172982.649445.289850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Not for homework. But anyway thanks much...



From nicksjacobson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 17:29:06 2005
From: nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (nicksjacobson at yahoo.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 14:29:06 -0700
Subject: bug in os.system?
References: <1129617198.528491.125830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2209.1129629414.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129670946.365516.217780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

OK, I give up.  Why does workaround #2 work?

Also, I didn't realize this before, but when you call os.spawnv, the
argument list you pass starts with the name of the executable you're
calling!  When you call a program from cmd.exe, that program name is
the first parameter automatically.  But with spawnv, you do that
manually!

Anyway, thanks for your help!



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 20 12:38:29 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:38:29 -0400
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
Message-ID: <86k6g8uosa.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Eric Brunel" <eric_brunel at despammed.com> writes:
> -myScript.py--------------------------------------
> print 'export MY_VARIABLE=value'
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> -myScript.sh--------------------------------------
> python myScript.py > /tmp/chgvars.sh
> . /tmp/chgvars.sh

It's simpler to use eval and command substitution:

eval $(python myScript.py)

     <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 22 21:05:07 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:05:07 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc at 4ax.com...

> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:24 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    If the deal didn't give you more than it cost you, all you had to do 
>> was
>>say 'no'. I understand the frustration at being forced to pay for 
>>something
>>what it is worth.

> The choice was go along with MS arm twisting or go out of business.

    Only because the product they were providing you was so important you 
were unable to do business without it.

> I call that extortion.

    Microsoft had something you need so badly that you could not go into 
business without it. So they demanded from you that you pay them what their 
software was actually worth to you. That is not extortion. Everyone who 
sells something tries to get the maximum possible value for it.

    (Of course, you could have gone into business selling servers. Or 
Macintoshes. Or another business entirely. It was only to go into the 
business of selling PCs with Windows that you had to deal with Microsoft.)

    DS




From howardrh at westerncom.net  Thu Oct  6 20:04:01 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 17:04:01 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1128643441.765008.264750@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

A good starting point is the book "Python Scripting for Computational
Science" by Hans Petter Langtangen.  The book covers topics that go
from simulating second order mechanical systems to solving partial
differentail equations.

Howard

Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for any work/paper/ressource about continuous system
> simulation using Python or any similar object oriented languages (or
> even UML theory !).
>
> I'm aware of SimPy for discrete event simulation, but I haven't found
> any work about continuous system.
> I would like to develop a generic continous system simulator, and so
> would be eager to join any open source effort on the subject.
>
> For instance, it would be useful for modelling an airplane with all the
> dynamics (flight simulator).
>
> Python is my language of choice because of the keyword 'generic'. Being
> an object oriented dynamic language, it's perfect for such a task.
> Unfortunately I'm a novice when it comes to object oriented
> design and development, so I would prefer to start from something
> already existent instead of starting from scratch.
>
> If you had any idea on the subject, I would be really glad to discuss it
> with you.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> P.S. : for email, replace nowhere by yahoo



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 10 21:11:17 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:11:17 -0400
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1827.1128929410.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1827.1128929410.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oPednZgkKuS4jNbeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

Peter wrote:
> Although the wxPyWiki seems to be pronounced wix-pee-wi-kee (as it says 
> on the front page) so maybe it is pronounced wix-Python... you never 
> know...

That's _definitely_ how it's pronounced.

Here.

Where I am.

When I'm speaking.

If, however, we're near Mike Fletcher and he's the one speaking, it's 
pronounced differently than any of the suggestions made so far, but I'd 
have to defer to him for the spelling describing his pronunciation.

-Peter


From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 12:20:16 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 09:20:16 -0700
Subject: change a value to NULL?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1545.1128526655.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1545.1128526655.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128529216.608027.227010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I'm not sure what you mean, really, do you need an official Python
"Null" value? Try None?

In [6]: myCells = ['Mary', 'Bob', None, 'Joe']

In [7]: for cell in myCells:
   ...:     if cell:
   ...:         print cell
   ...:     else:
   ...:         print "NULL VALUE"
   ...:
Mary
Bob
NULL VALUE
Joe

--

As far as having a Null value to put into the DB, most (SQL) DB's I've
used have a specific SQL command like "INSERT INTO ROW VALUE NULL()",
kind of like the SQL DATE(), etc.  I'm really rusty on my syntax etc
right now btw so don't copy and paste that. :P



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 04:57:02 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:57:02 +0100
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <434CCFDE.7000409@holdenweb.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Johnny Lee wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>I've sent the source, thanks for your help.
>>
> 
> [...]
> Preliminary result, in case this rings bells with people who use urllib2 
> quite a lot. I modified the error case to report the actual message 
> returned with the exception and I'm seeing things like:
> 
> http://www.holdenweb.com/./Python/webframeworks.html
>     Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
> Start process 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/steveholden-20
> Error: IOError while parsing 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/steveholden-20
>     Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
>     .
>     .
>     .
> 
> So at least we know now what the error is, and it looks like some sort 
> of resource limit (though why only on Cygwin betas me) ... anyone, 
> before I start some serious debugging?
> 
I realized after this post that WingIDE doesn't run under Cygwin, so I 
modified the code further to raise an error and give us a proper 
traceback. I also tested the program under the standard Windows 2.4.1 
release, where it didn't fail, so I conclude you have unearthed a Cygwin 
socket bug. Here's the traceback:

End process http://www.holdenweb.com/contact.html
Start process http://freshmeat.net/releases/192449
Error: IOError while parsing http://freshmeat.net/releases/192449
    Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "Spider_bug.py", line 225, in ?
     spider.run()
   File "Spider_bug.py", line 143, in run
     self.grabUrl(tempUrl)
   File "Spider_bug.py", line 166, in grabUrl
     webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url).read()
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 130, in urlopen
     return _opener.open(url, data)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 358, in open
     response = self._open(req, data)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 376, in _open
     '_open', req)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 337, in _call_chain
     result = func(*args)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 1021, in http_open
     return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 996, in do_open
     raise URLError(err)
urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>

Looking at that part of the course of urrllib2 we see:

         headers["Connection"] = "close"
         try:
             h.request(req.get_method(), req.get_selector(), req.data, 
headers)
             r = h.getresponse()
         except socket.error, err: # XXX what error?
             raise URLError(err)

So my conclusion is that there's something in the Cygwin socket module 
that causes problems not seen under other platforms.

I couldn't find any obviously-related error in the Python bug tracker, 
and I have copied this message to the Cygwin list in case someone there 
knows what the problem is.

Before making any kind of bug submission you should really see if you 
can build a program shorter that the existing 220+ lines to demonstrate 
the bug, but it does look to me like your program should work (as indeed 
it does on other platforms).

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 24 01:11:12 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:11:12 -0400
Subject: output from external commands
References: <mailman.2455.1130128983.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86hdb77b4f.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

James Colannino <james at colannino.org> writes:

> Hey everyone.  First off, I'm new to the list.  I had had a little bit
> of experience with Perl before discovering Python.  The more Python I
> learn, the more I love it :)  I just have a quick question to ask.  I
> know that this is probably a simple question, but I've been googling
> around, and partly because I'm not sure exactly what to search for,
> I've been unsuccessful at finding an answer.  What I'd like to do is
> be able to take the output of an external command and assign it as an
> array of strings.  So, for example, in Perl I could do something like:
>
> @files = `ls`;
>
> So I guess I'm looking for something similiar to the backticks in
> Perl.  Forgive me if I've asked something that's a bit basic for this
> list.  Any help would be greatly appreciated :)  Thanks very much in
> advance.

This is a scripting language feature. Python doesn't have direct
support for it, any more than C++ does. To get that functionality, you
want to use either the os.popen function, or - preferable, but only
available in newer Pythons - the subprocess module.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Oct 12 07:02:20 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:02:20 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <wzzmpf80cj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> (PR) wrote:

>PR> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> writes:
>>> For a conditional, syntax must be found, and the tradition of Python
>>> design is not to use punctuation for something that can be solved with
>>> keywords.

>PR> Yeah, "if C then A else B" is a ancient tradition stretching from
>PR> Algol-60 to OCAML, and who knows what all else in between.  I'm not
>PR> sure what Guido saw in the "A if C else B" syntax but it's not a big deal.

I suspect it is because "if C then A else B" gives problems in the parser
because it would have difficulty to distinguish this in time from the if
statement. This is because the parser doesn't use a very strong formalism. 

I think language design should prevail over parsing problems, but in this
case it is probably a pragmatic argument that wins.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Thu Oct 13 08:57:20 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:57:20 +1000
Subject: Here I am again, same old arguments
References: <wg32f.411657$x96.212964@attbi_s72>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.15.12.523844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96EE1F36ADD78cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.13.12.57.16.837443@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:05:00 +0000, CJ wrote:

> 1) Why no global variables? I'm taking your word for it that they're bad. Far be it from me to 
> argue with you, but why are they bad ideas to begin with? Most of the languages I've used up to 
> this point have been reliant on globals, so I'm not entirely sure why they shouldn't be used.

Global variables aren't *entirely* bad. I use them myself, sometimes for
constants (well, pseudo-constants -- Python doesn't enforce constants) and
short, quick 'n' dirty throw away code.

But in general, as your code gets bigger and more complicated, using
global variables gets more dangerous, unreliable, harder to debug, and
generally a bad idea. Let me show you some examples.

Suppose you have some some code like this:

# set a global variable
gParrot = 1
# do some work with it
get_shrubbery()
eat_after_dinner_mint()
make_machine_go_ping()
pine_for_the_fjords()
print gParrot

(The names come from Monty Python, as is traditional in Python.)

You have four functions in that piece of code. You expect that after
the four functions run, the code should print 2, but instead it prints
3. Why? Somehow, parrot is getting set to the wrong value. 

Which of those four functions is to blame? Which ones use the global
variable parrot? You can't tell just by looking. Which ones change the
variable? Again, you can't tell. The only way to find out is to read the
code. In a big program, there might be thousands of functions, split over
dozens of modules. Just going backwards and forwards looking up the
functions is hard work.

Now let's re-write that code properly:

# set a variable
parrot = 1
# do some work with it
get_shrubbery(parrot)
parrot = eat_after_dinner_mint()
make_machine_go_ping()
parrot = pine_for_the_fjords()
print parrot

Now it is easier to see what is going on. get_shrubbery uses the value of
parrot, but can't change it. Or rather, if it changes parrot, that change
is local to the function, and doesn't effect anything outside of that
function. So it isn't responsible for the bug.

The machine that goes ping doesn't even use the value of parrot, and it
certainly doesn't change it. So it can't be responsible for the bug.

The value of parrot gets changed in only two places, once by
eat_after_dinner_mint, and the other by pine_for_the_fjords. So you have
halved the amount of places that you need to look for the bug.

What else is wrong with globals?

(1) You can't be sure what a function does without reading and
understanding every bit of code. Suppose you have a function that is
supposed to make the machine go ping, and return True if the machine
pinged and False if it didn't. But you don't know if it changes any global
variables -- that is what we call a "side-effect". Like side-effects in
medicine, it makes it very hard to tell what a function will do.

(2) Global variables allow indiscriminate access. You can't prevent other
functions from messing them up. If you are writing a small program on your
own, maybe you can trust yourself not to accidentally mangle the global
variable. But if you are working on a big project with ten other
programmers, and they all are writing code that reads and writes to your
global variables, can you really trust that none of them will put the
wrong value there?

(3) Globals make it really hard to change your code. You have a global
variable and you want to change what it stands for. But you can't, because
all these dozens of other functions rely on it. So you end up leaving the
old global there, and inventing a new one, and now you have twice as many
places that bugs can be hiding because every function can potentially mess
up two globals instead of one.

(4) It is easy to screening globals accidentally, a source of bugs. You
have a global called "parrot", but somewhere in a function you create a
local variable also called "parrot". Now you have lost access to the
global. This can be a source of many puzzling bugs.

(5) Dependency: global variables mean that different functions and modules
depend on each other in ways that are very hard to control. This means
that any time you modify a function that uses globals, you could
potentially be breaking *any other function*, even if the change you made
to the first function is not a bug.

(6) Error propagation. A bug in one function will propagate to other
functions. This can mean that you detect the bug in a piece of code a
long, long way away from where the bug was introduced. 



> 2) Why no for loop with an index? Again, far be it from me to argue, but it seemed perfect for 
> my program. 

Why do work that you don't have to?

You are writing code like this:

myList = ["spam", "ping", "parrot", "fjords"]
for indx in range(len(myList)):
    print myList[indx],

It prints:
spam ping parrot fjords

But look at how much work you have to do: first you count the length of
the list with len(myList), then you create a list of integers between 0
and that length with range, then for each of those integers, you have to
look up the item in myList. To understand the code, you have to work
through those three things in your head.

Here is a simpler way of doing it:

myList = ["spam", "ping", "parrot", "fjords"]
for item in myList:
    print item,

Translate that into English: For each item in myList, print the item. The
code practically explains itself, you don't have to do all these
intermediate calculations, and there are fewer places for bugs to hide.



> 3) Where do I find a command list, with syntax and all that fun stuff
> for Python? I've explored the python site to no end, but I can't seem to
> find a list.

Have you looked here?

http://docs.python.org/index.html



-- 
Steven.



From chris at kateandchris.net  Fri Oct 28 14:50:10 2005
From: chris at kateandchris.net (Chris Lambacher)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:50:10 -0400
Subject: Why doesn't this work? :)
In-Reply-To: <1130522549.4095.19.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1130522549.4095.19.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051028185010.GA26260@kateandchris.net>

I think what you really want is:

try:
	# this will fail and be caught
	# below, weeee
	import foobar

except ImportError, error:
	class foobarclass:
		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
			return None
    foobar = foobarclass()

print foobar.bg


foobar in your version is a class.  By making it an instance, the __getattr__ method is properly called.


-Chris


On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 02:02:29PM -0400, Jeremy Moles wrote:
> Jumping right into the code (which should speak for itself):
> 
> # -----------------------------------
> 
> try:
> 	# this will fail and be caught
> 	# below, weeee
> 	import foobar
> 
> except ImportError, error:
> 	class foobar:
> 		@staticmethod
> 		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
> 			return None
> 
> print foobar.bg
> 
> # -----------------------------------
> 
> This doesn't work and I'm just curious as to why? I can, of course, make
> __getattr__ non-static, instantiate a foolbar object, and everything
> works; but, the "idea" above seems cleaner and whatnot. :)
> 
> Am I misunderstanding something fundamental about the builtin __*
> functions? Can they not be "static?"
> 
> No rush on this, just curious. I'm using the following in a more general
> way, and it works fine for now... :)
> 
> # -----------------------------------
> 
> try:
> 	import foobar
> 
> except ImportError, error:
> 	class Foobar:
> 		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
> 			return None
> 
> 	foobar = Foobar()
> 
> print foobar.bg
> 
> # -----------------------------------
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:18:44 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:18:44 +0200
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
References: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.2468.1130148351.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130185501.221232.17370@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djkpp3$ubj$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Joey C." wrote:

> Here is a basic overview of the variables included there.
>
> params = cgi.FieldStorage()
> I accidentally made a mistake when typing what the "thefile" variable
> is.
> thefile = params["upfile"].file
> "upfile" is the CGI field that contains the file that I'm uploading.
> As you can see, the if statement just compares two values,
> os.path.getsize(thefile) and conf["upmax"], a variable I set that is
> designated as the maximum file size allowed.
>
> I'm assuming that this is all the information you need.  I'm sorry for
> not including it earlier; I was in a bit of a rush.  ^.^

and I'm sorry for not noticing the error: os.path.getsize takes a filename,
but the file attribute contains a file handle, and that UnicodeError is what
you get if you pass the wrong thing to os.path.getsize.  e.g:

>>> os.path.getsize(None) < 1000
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\lib\ntpath.py", line 228, in getsize
    return os.stat(filename).st_size
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found

(here, the full traceback reveals that the problem is inside getsize, and not
in the comparision.  the error message itself isn't exactly helpful, though...)

the file handle is usually a real (but temporary) file, so you should be able to
get the size by seeking to the end of the file:

    file = params["upfile"].file
    file.seek(0, 2)
    size = file.tell()
    file.seek(0) # rewind

inspecting the headers attribute might also help.

</F> 





From oliver.andrich at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 07:21:04 2005
From: oliver.andrich at gmail.com (Oliver Andrich)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:21:04 +0200
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <1128249650.166566.81790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<1128249650.166566.81790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f7b52d0510020421t4740567ay@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to test it, but as soon as I try to execute an example my
browser is guided to connect to 192.168.0.40. First off it is an
non-routeable address and secondly my own too. :))) May be you have to
fix your setup another time.

Best regards,
Oliver

2 Oct 2005 03:40:50 -0700, salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr
<salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr>:
> Thank you for testing
> Indeed it is very interesting :-)
>
> I've had some problems with my ports forwarding and no-ip.org.
>
> Here is then the new address :
>
> http://artyprog.dyndns.org:8080
>
> Regards
>
> Betwise, I live in France so the site is close when i'am at work
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


--
Oliver Andrich <oliver.andrich at gmail.com> --- http://roughbook.de/


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Mon Oct 10 15:37:03 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:37:03 +0100
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, it was written:

> Ville Voipio <vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi> writes:
>
>> Just one thing: how reliable is the garbage collecting system? Should I 
>> try to either not produce any garbage or try to clean up manually?
>
> The GC is a simple, manually-updated reference counting system augmented 
> with some extra contraption to resolve cyclic dependencies. It's 
> extremely easy to make errors with the reference counts in C extensions, 
> and either leak references (causing memory leaks) or forget to add them 
> (causing double-free crashes).

Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would be a 
lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be faster, 
more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.

Hmm. Maybe it wouldn't make extensions easier or more reliable. You'd 
still need some way of figuring out which variables in C-land held 
pointers to objects; if anything, that might be harder, unless you want to 
impose a horrendous JAI-like bondage-and-discipline interface.

> There is no way you can avoid making garbage.  Python conses everything, 
> even integers (small positive ones are cached).

So python doesn't use the old SmallTalk 80 SmallInteger hack, or similar? 
Fair enough - the performance gain is nice, but the extra complexity would 
be a huge pain, i imagine.

tom

-- 
Fitter, Happier, More Productive.


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 14 22:31:57 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:31:57 GMT
Subject: Class property
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>	<mailman.1595.1128589518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<di2qp1$bor$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.1611.1128607770.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43506875.20461732@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:09:22 +0200, Laszlo Zsolt Nagy <gandalf at designaproduct.biz> wrote:

>Peter Otten wrote:
>
>>Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>I was trying for a while, but I could not implement a 'classproperty'
>>>function. Is it possible at all?
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>You could define a "normal" property in the metaclass:
>>  
>>
>The only way I could do this is:
>
>class MyXMetaClass(type):
>    _x = 0
>    def get_x(cls):
>        print "Getting x"
>        return cls._x
>    def set_x(cls,value):
>        cls._x = value
>        print "Set %s.x to %s" % (cls.__name__,value)
>    x = property(get_x,set_x)
>
>class A(object):
>    __metaclass__ = MyXMetaClass
>   
>print A.x
>A.x = 8
>
>
>Results in:
>
>Getting x
>0
>Set A.x to 8
>
>But of course this is bad because the class attribute is not stored in 
>the class. I feel it should be.
>Suppose we want to create a class property, and a class attribute; and 
>we would like the property get/set methods to use the values of the 
>class attributes.
>A real example would be a class that keeps track of its direct and 
>subclassed instances:
>
>class A(object):
>    cnt = 0
>    a_cnt = 0
>    def __init__(self):
>        A.cnt += 1
>        if self.__class__ is A:
>            A.a_cnt += 1
>           
>class B(A):
>    pass
>   
>print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 0,0
>b = B()
>print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 1,0
>a = A()
>print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 2,1
>
>But then, I may want to create read-only class property that returns the 
>cnt/a_cnt ratio.
>This now cannot be implemented with a metaclass, because the metaclass 
>cannot operate on the class attributes:
But it can install a property that can.
>
>class A(object):
>    cnt = 0
>    a_cnt = 0
>    ratio = a_class_property_that_returns_the_cnt_per_a_cnt_ratio() # ????
>    def __init__(self):
>        A.cnt += 1
>        if self.__class__ is A:
>            A.a_cnt += 1
>
>Any ideas?
>

 >>> class A(object):
 ...     cnt = 0
 ...     a_cnt = 0
 ...     def __init__(self):
 ...         A.cnt += 1
 ...         if self.__class__ is A:
 ...             A.a_cnt += 1
 ...     class __metaclass__(type):
 ...         def ratio(cls):
 ...             print "Getting ratio..."
 ...             return float(cls.a_cnt)/cls.cnt #
 ...         ratio = property(ratio)
 ...
I inverted your ratio to lessen the probability if zero division...

 >>> class B(A): pass
 ...
 >>> A.ratio
 Getting ratio...
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 11, in ratio
 ZeroDivisionError: float division

Oops ;-)

 >>> A.cnt, A.a_cnt
 (0, 0)
 >>> b=B()
 >>> A.cnt, A.a_cnt
 (1, 0)
 >>> A.ratio
 Getting ratio...
 0.0
 >>> a=A()
 >>> A.ratio
 Getting ratio...
 0.5

 >>> a=A()
 >>> A.ratio
 Getting ratio...
 0.66666666666666663

The old instance is no longer bound, so should it still be counted as it is?
You might want to check how to use weak references if not...

 >>> b2=B()
 >>> B.ratio
 Getting ratio...
 0.5
 >>> b3=B()
 >>> B.ratio
 Getting ratio...
 0.40000000000000002

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 14:51:02 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:51:02 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<m3ll0h8u2t.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <djluqm$gkg$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

> The first two points are factually wrong, and the third is an opinion
> based on the concept, as far as I can see, that Microsoft should be
> allowed to do anything they like, even if those actions harm others.

    Of course this alleged "harm" is simply a lack of a benefit.

    Why is Burger King allowed to close at 10PM? That harms me when I'm 
hungry after 10.

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 19 03:38:16 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:38:16 +0100
Subject: A little help with time calculations
In-Reply-To: <1129670245.463881.317270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2225.1129658853.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129670245.463881.317270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj4t57$8jg$1@sea.gmane.org>

iminal wrote:
> what i have so far is :
> 
>     # Get values needed to make time calculations
>     CT = input("input your chronometer time (ex. 07:21:46): ")
>     CE = input("input your chronometer correction (ex. 00:01:32): ")
>     CEfastslow = raw_input("is your chronometer correction fast or
> slow: ")
> 
>     #decide either to subtract or add CE from/to CT
>     if CEfastslow == "fast":
>         CEfastslow = CT - CE
>     if CEfastslow == "slow":
>         CEfastslow = CT + CE
> 
> but this just doesnt deal with the numbers in time format its acting
> like they are just regualr integers adding them up like regular numbers
> 
Well, how is the interpreter supposed to know that they are times? 
Remember that the Python language doesn't have times as a basic data 
type, and input(...) treats what you enter as Python data (unlike 
raw_input()).

> i am trying to figure out what u posted and it seems a little
> complicated im trying to add it in somehow and figure out exactly what
> its doing but still looking for a little easier of a way
> 
Well, the code I posted was untested, and I find two things wrong with 
it straight away: Firstly, it won't include leading zeros when 
converting seconds to a time, and secondly it puts the hours, minutes 
and seconds in the wrong order.

> thanks so far
> 
The idea, though, is to read strings lime "07:20:44" and convert them 
into something that Python *can* do arithmetic on. I defined a function, 
timetosecs, that would let you do this.

So your program should look something like:

# Put function definitions here ...
CT = raw_input("input your chronometer time (ex. 07:21:46): ")
CE = raw_input("input your chronometer correction (ex. 00:01:32): ")
CEfastslow = raw_input("is your chronometer correction fast or slow: ")

Tsecs = timetosecs(CT)
Esecs = timetosecs(CE)

#decide either to subtract or add CE from/to CT
if CEfastslow == "fast":
     CEfastslow = Tsecs - Esecs
if CEfastslow == "slow":
     CEfastslow = Tsecs + Esecs

print "New time:", secstotime(CEfastslow)

Hope this gets you a bit closer to a solution.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct  6 16:52:12 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 20:52:12 GMT
Subject: interactive window vs. script:  inconsistent behavior
References: <mailman.1639.1128631418.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns96E7DE82FA2CBduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Bell, Kevin wrote:

> The following works in the interactive window of PythonWin, but fails in
> a script.  TypeError: Objects of type 'slice' can not be converted to a
> COM VARIANT
> 
> I just need to parse out these dates, but it's making me crazy.
> Shouldn't it work in both the interactive window and a script?  
> 
> 
>>>> d = "5-18-05 to 5-31-05"
>>>> print d[0:d.find("to")-1]
> 5-18-05
>>>> print d[d.find("to")+3:]
> 5-31-05
>>>>
> 

Not surprisingly, the above three lines work perfectly well in a script:

d = "5-18-05 to 5-31-05"
print d[0:d.find("to")-1]
print d[d.find("to")+3:]

and the output is:
C:\temp>t.py
5-18-05
5-31-05

Perhaps if you were to post an actual script which doesn't work and the 
actual error it generates, it might be possible to help you.


From a.jaffe-usenet at bakerjaffe.plus.com  Fri Oct 21 18:05:21 2005
From: a.jaffe-usenet at bakerjaffe.plus.com (Andrew Jaffe)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:05:21 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <sq6dnXpiS9QUu8TenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
	<sq6dnXpiS9QUu8TenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <43596621.7010000@bakerjaffe.plus.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Andrew Jaffe wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure if I understand your goal here, but you can get different 
> behavior using super().
> 
> py> class sup(object):
> ...     cvar1 = None
> ...     cvar2 = None
> ...     @classmethod
> ...     def setcvar1(cls, val):
> ...         cls.cvar1 = val
> ...     @classmethod
> ...     def setcvar2(cls, val):
> ...         cls.cvar2 = val
> ...     @classmethod
> ...     def printcvars(cls):
> ...         print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
> ...
> py> class sub(sup):
> ...     cvar1a = None
> ...     @classmethod
> ...     def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
> ...         cls.cvar1a = vala
> ...         super(sub, cls).setcvar1(val)
> ...     @classmethod
> ...     def printcvars(cls):
> ...         print cls.cvar1a
> ...         super(sub, cls).printcvars()
> ...
> py> sub.setcvar1(1, 10); sub.setcvar2(2); sub.printcvars()
> 10
> 1 2
> py> sup.printcvars()
> None None

Aha! This is the behavior I want -- the variables get set correctly when 
the methods are called on the subclass. I thought super() might be the 
right idea, but I didn't realize you could call it as super(sub, cls) 
rather than with an instance in the second slot. I don't think my use 
case ever needs the superclass to have the variables accessible as in 
your next ideas, not reproduced here.

Thanks!

Andrew



From elicriffield at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 16:16:36 2005
From: elicriffield at gmail.com (Eli Criffield)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 13:16:36 -0700
Subject: Web based applications are possible with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129666596.739256.151100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

http://www.nomachine.com/companion_screenshots.php

While not exacly what your talking about, its about as close as i can
think of. This allows you to run any X applications inside a web
browser.

Eli



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:42:36 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:42:36 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <vc05l11nqdfbs71u20k4fi1kcop8lpus4t@4ax.com>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:24:21 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote or
quoted :

>>I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
>>only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.
>How about pdf?

End users HATE PDF.  Why?

It takes so long for the reader to load.

It is so slow on older machines to render and scroll.

My complaint with it is it is Adobe proprietary. This make the tools
very expensive. 

I like PDF because:

1. documents have to be prepared before posting. This means you don't
have malformed syntax in them.

2. You can reasonably quickly turn computer printouts or paper
documents into web content.

3. You don't have to guess what the end user will see.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From godoy at ieee.org  Fri Oct 28 09:35:08 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:35:08 -0200
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y84dix2r.fsf@ieee.org>

"pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com" <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> writes:

> Which is quite fast. The only problems is that the file might be huge.
> I really have no need for reading the entire file into a string as I am
> doing here. All I want is to count occurences this substring. Can I
> somehow count occurences in a file without reading it into a string
> first?

How about iterating through the file?  You can read it line by line, two lines
at a time.  Pseudocode follows:

line1 = read_line
while line2 = read_line:
      line_to_check = ''.join([line1, line2])
      check_for_desired_string
      line1 = line2

With that you always have two lines in the buffer and you can check all of
them for your desired string, no matter what the size of the file is.


Be seeing you,
-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From bmaxa at eunet.yu  Sat Oct 15 14:08:16 2005
From: bmaxa at eunet.yu (Branimir Maksimovic)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:08:16 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<86slv8xdkw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dirgie$uv7$1@news.eunet.yu>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4 at 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:45:03 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>
>>Jeff Poskanzer, now *he* has a spam problem. He gets a few million
>>spams a day: <URL: http://www.acme.com/mail_filtering/ >.
>
> It is a bit like termites. If we don't do something drastic to deal
> with spam, the ruddy things will eventually make the entire Internet
> unusable.
>
> the three keys to me are:
>
> 1. flipping to a digital id based email system so that the sender of
> any piece of mail can be legally identified and prosecuted.
> If every piece of anonymous email disappeared that would go a long way
> to clearing up spam.  Let those sending ransom notes, death threats
> and  hate mail use snail mail.  As a second best, correspondents are
> identified by permission/identity/encryption keys given to them by
> their recipients.

Too complicated.

>
> 2. flipping to a sender pays system so that the Internet does not
> subsidise spam.

This would turn cost of sending mail to ordinary people.
Spammers pay for bandwith as much as receivers (except in
case when they hijack server).

>
> 3. Mail is not transported without prior permission.  The receiver can
> turn that permission on and off any time he chooses.  This is
> basically an automated version of what Zaep does where the sender is
> not consciously aware of the permission-getting step.

That is the solution.
rcpt from:<spammer at spam.org>
rcpt to:victim at victims.org
not authorized

Then simply users have to maintain list of domains/users that can send mail
which need just one more smtp command.
mail from:<spammer at spam.org>
auth req:<victim at victims.org>
ok
auth req:<victim at victims.org>
request already in queue
rcpt to:<victim at victims.org>
not authorized

user authorization:
helo victims.org
ok
user:victim at victims.org
ok
password:victim
ok
auth list req
...
...
...
auth add:<spammer at slam,org>
error no such user at slam org
auth add:<spammer at spam,org>
ok
auth add:<*@*>
ok
auth remove:<*@*>
ok
auth add:<*@friends.org>
ok
quit

and there  it is, spam free solution.
User can maintain two email addresses one for general public
and one spam free. Of course smtp should be really extended
to support user authorization.

Greetings, Bane.




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 17 19:22:14 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:22:14 GMT
Subject: override a property
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43543171.268521573@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:52:19 +0100, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:

>Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need to create 
>another class with the property changed?
How do you need to "override" it? Care to create a toy example with a
"wish I could <override action> here" comment line? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bonono at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 00:32:37 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 21:32:37 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

what do you mean by one line ? Using map/filter, I believe it is
possible.

Somthing like:

map(lambda (s,f): os.path.exists(f) and f or s,
    map(lambda x: (x, re.replace(x, "-s","")), imgPaths)

My regex is a bit rusty but I hope you got the idea of what I am trying
to do. If there is a way to make the re return without destroying x,
the outer map is not needed I believe(that is run it twice, once for
getting the filename to do the testing, then again based on the testing
result).

Xah Lee wrote:
> is there a way to condense the following loop into one line?
>
> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> # python
>
> import re, os.path
>
> imgPaths=[u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2059m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2062m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2097m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2099m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Icons_dir/icon_sum.gif']
>
> # change the image path to the full sized image, if it exists
> # that is, if image ends in -s.jpg, find one without the '-s'.
> temp=imgPaths[:]
> imgPaths=[]
> for myPath in temp:
>     p=myPath
>     (dirName, fileName) = os.path.split(myPath)
>     (fileBaseName, fileExtension)=os.path.splitext(fileName)
>     if(re.search(r'-s$',fileBaseName,re.U)):
>         p2=os.path.join(dirName,fileBaseName[0:-2]) + fileExtension
>         if os.path.exists(p2): p=p2
>     imgPaths.append(p)
>
> temp=[]
> print imgPaths
> 
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 17:19:42 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:19:42 -0700
Subject: Recursive generators and backtracking search
References: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h576bz.t0vzhzkqtit3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Talin <viridia at gmail.com> wrote:

> even simpler - for examle, the idea of being able to return the output
> of one generator directly from another instead of having to iterate
> through all of the results and then re-yield them has already been
> discussed in this forum.

I missed those discussions, having been away from the group for awhile.
To me, the simplification of changing, e.g.,

for x in whatever_other_iterable: yield x

into (say)

yield from whatever_other_iterable

is minute and not worth changing the syntax (even though something like
'yield from' would mean no keywords would need to be added).


Alex


From http  Tue Oct  4 03:28:12 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 00:28:12 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xzmprueyg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkujx04.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xwtku1dh4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br26jkma.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xvf0dg2r7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> I assumed the Java model was based on the C++ model because it seems
> that everything in Java is based on C++, and they share the same
> vocabulary. If I'm wrong - well, that means you considered another
> language already.

I guess it's similar that way, however, C++ doesn't attempt any
enforcement at all, it has naked pointers, etc.

> Sure, Java might be a big improvement. But Python isn't Java. Rather
> than just throwing in something that works, do the legwork to verify
> that you're going to propose a best-of-breed solution. 

I don't think I've proposed anything so far.  I've just been trying to
answer some of the CPython cultists who claim that the concept is
useless.  I'd rather not think too carefully about Python changes of
this depth until after PyPy is fully deployed.  A lot of things that
some folks seem to think are deeply ingrained in Python, are really
just hacks that fell out of the C implementation.  Python has evolved
over time and it will continue to do so.

> If something perfect is available, wouldn't you feel awful if Python
> got saddled with something that wasn't perfected?

Oh, heaven forbid that anything like that might ever happen in Python. </snark>


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 16 18:26:02 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:26:02 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11l48tuqj7m11b5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <86ll0t14lh.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> writes:
>>> IBM's prediction that there would be 5 computers (not counting game
>>> computers like the Comodores and Spectrums) by 2000 would likely have 
>>> come
>>> true.
>> I see. You're a troll.
> nope, I'm just sick and tired of trolls like you calling everyone who 
> doesn't share their hatred of Microsoft a troll. 

Nah, I only call people spouting utter bullshit without regard for the
facts in order to piss people off trolls. By the time MS lied to IBM
about having an OS, there were already more than five computers in the
world. Sure, you might be exageratting - but you're doing it to piss
people off. That makes you a troll.

  <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From juho.schultz at helsinki.fi  Wed Oct 19 03:47:45 2005
From: juho.schultz at helsinki.fi (Juho Schultz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:47:45 +0300
Subject: nested escape chars in a shell command
In-Reply-To: <1129666159.791998.134880@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129666159.791998.134880@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj4tn0$qgt$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Eli Criffield wrote:
> I'm try run an ssh command in pexpect and I'm having trouble getting
> everything escaped to do what i want.
> 
> Here's a striped down script showing what i want to do.
> 
> --
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import pexpect
> import sys
> if len(sys.argv) < 3:
>         print "ssh.py host command"
>         sys.exit(1)
> 
> host = sys.argv[1]
> command = sys.argv[2]
> 
> child = pexpect.spawn('''sh -x -c "stty -echo ; ssh -t -o
> 'StrictHostKeyChecking no' %s '%s' |awk '{print \"%s:\"$0}' "
> '''%(host,command,host), timeout=30)
> 
> child.setlog(sys.stdout)
> child.expect(pexpect.EOF)
> --
> 
> The problem in the pexpect.spawn line, It doesn't like the \"%s:\" part
> of the awk command. This is necessary so i can see what server the
> command is running on, In the full script the command will be running
> on about 100 servers at a time.
> It parses out into:
> + stty -echo
> + ssh -t -o 'StrictHostKeyChecking no' testserver date
> + awk '{print testserver:$0}'
> It totally strips out the "
> 
> The stty -echo is required because part of what the program does is it
> tries to remember any passwords that are asked for, So you can run a
> command like "su -c id" and it will remember roots password for the
> next
> server and try that. -echo keeps the root password from being echoed to
> the screen.
> 
> The second problem with the command is while "su -c id" works (taking
> out the awk part) running any command with more then one word after the
> -c in su fails, It strips out the '
> like so:
> ./sshexpect testserver "su -c 'ls -l /root'"
> + stty -echo
> + ssh -t -o 'StrictHostKeyChecking no' testserver 'su -c ls' -l /root
> su: user /root does not exist
> 
> I have tried every combination of escaping i can think of can i can't
> get either problem solved.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Eli
> 

You can pass the argument list of your command to
pexpect.spawn(comm, args=['arg1','arg2'])
If the argument list is empty, pexpect tries to get the arguments
from the comm you passed to it. I guess this gives you problems.

Try using the args parameter. 
Simplest would be args=[' '] just to avoid the processing.


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 19 05:56:14 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:56:14 +0200
Subject: html parser?
In-Reply-To: <qysxtmgb7ql.kadcgt64tvy2.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>	<mailman.2212.1129632708.509.python-list@python.org>	<dj2lq0$s27$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<qysxtmgb7ql.kadcgt64tvy2.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <4356183E.9040200@designaproduct.biz>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

>* Christoph S?llner (2005-10-18 12:20 +0100)
>  
>
>>right, that's what I was looking for. Thanks very much.
>>    
>>
>
>For simple things like that "BeautifulSoup" might be overkill.
>
>import formatter, \ 
>       htmllib,   \ 
>       urllib 
>
>url = 'http://python.org' 
>
>htmlp = htmllib.HTMLParser(formatter.NullFormatter()) 
>  
>
The problem with HTMLParser is that does not handle unclosed tags and/or 
attirbutes given with invalid syntax.
Unfortunately, many sites on the internet use malformed HTML pages. You 
are right, BeautifulSoup is an overkill
(it is rather slow) but I'm affraid this is the only fault-tolerant 
solution.

  Les



From pu at pmville.com  Tue Oct 25 19:25:52 2005
From: pu at pmville.com (Ask)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:25:52 +1000
Subject: Hi All - Newby 
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
	<435deb2c$0$652$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <435ebf0a@news1.veridas.net>

Hi Bruno,

I'm simply using the IDLE editor to hand code, then compiling and running.

Thanks
Pauly


"bruno modulix" <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote in message 
news:435deb2c$0$652$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> Ask wrote:
>> G'day All,
>>
> (snip)
>
> Welcome here...
>
>> I must admit to much confusion regarding some of the basics, but I'm sure
>> time, reading, and good advice will get rid of that. at this stage, it's
>> just working through some examples and getting my head around things. As 
>> an
>> example, if I create a window, I've been unable to force it to be a 
>> certain
>> size, and put a button (widget) at (say) 20,40 (x & y). Is window 
>> formatting
>> possible?
>
> As you say, Python runs on a lot of platforms. It also allow the use of
> a lot of GUI toolkits. So "windows formatting" isn't a Python problem -
> it's specific to to toolkit you're using. Since we don't know which
> you're using, there's no way to answer your question.
>
> -- 
> bruno desthuilliers
> python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
> p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])" 




From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Oct  4 09:45:30 2005
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:45:30 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <4342877A.9010409@sweetapp.com>

Have those of you who think that the lack of required declarations in 
Python is a huge weakness given any thought to the impact that adding 
them would have on the rest of the language? I can't imagine how any 
language with required declarations could even remotely resemble Python.

And if you want to use such a different language, wouldn't a different 
existing language better fit your needs...?

Cheers,
Brian


From http  Thu Oct 13 05:59:04 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 02:59:04 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndkq9ge.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510130003150.19197@urchin.earth.li>
	<mailman.1993.1129197285.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr7ap68lz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
> (fwiw, switching to tagging in CPython would break most about
> everything.  might as well start over, and nobody's likely to do
> that to speed up integer- dominated programs a little...)

Yeah, a change of that magnitude in CPython would be madness, but
the question is well worth visiting for PyPy.


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 23:17:16 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:17:16 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>

riplin at Azonic.co.nz wrote:

> 
> John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> No: the historical fact is that MS whiped Netscape of the planet.
> 
> By giving IE away for free, by ripping off spyglass, by _paying_ OEMs
> to not include Netscape. By bundling IE. By abusing standards.

Which standards? Again: w3c is not an official standards organization.
Moreover, Netscape added LiveScript, oh wait, I mean JavaScript, and the
*cough* blink element. 

> By
> contracting with sites to include non-standard IE features to
> deliberately break NS.

NS also added features to HTML.

>> That
>> you come up with "They were afraid that everybody would be running NS
>> Office online using Netscape" is just a guess.
> 
> No. Netscape had announced that they were working on building network
> applications that just required a browser. XUL is the latest version
> of this.

So, uhm, 8 years later? And what applications do run on the web?

>> MS just seems to ignore a certain development for some time, then
>> state it's not significant, and next they are an important player.
>> This is not limited to "MS missed the Internet, almost...". They
>> don't miss anything, they just don't jump on every hype.
> 
> No. You are wrong again. In edition 1 of "The Way Ahead" there was
> _no_ mention of the Internet. MS did not notice it,

IIRC MS was already using the Internet (for email, Usenet, etc).

> and when they did they
> attempted to replace it with MSN which did not link to the internet
> initially. MSN was free with Win95, but most users ignored it and
> downloaded Netscape.

Yup, which if it had worked, it would have been an excellent lock in.
Not all plans work, NS is a nice example. 

>> and next they are an important player
> 
> Once they notice that there is a revenue stream then they will buy in
> a product, rebrand it MS and claim it is the best, and use their
> monopoly leverage to drive the other players out of business so that
> they can have all the revenue.

So what's new? Can you name all CD burning programs Adaptec has bought?

> The only reason that Linux/OpenOffice/GIMP/Apachee/MySQL/.. have
> survived this process is that MS haven't worked out how to kill them
> off.  Natural selection at work. If MS kills off everything that it
> can then what is left is what it can't.

That's why they are careful with killing off.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From pje at telecommunity.com  Thu Oct 13 23:28:13 2005
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 20:28:13 -0700
Subject: setuptools, ez_setup over http proxy
References: <1129252549.899651.327160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129260493.335489.184590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

yoda wrote:
> I've recently configured my network such that I use squid as a http
> proxy.  I'd now like to be able to use setuptools and ez_setup via this
> proxy.  Is this possible? If so, how do I do it?

The key thing is just that Python's urllib module needs to be able to
retrieve web pages and download files.  Try pulling up your Python
interpreter and retrieving a page with urllib.  If it works, you're
good to go, and no need to bother with anything else.

If it doesn't work, try Jay's suggestions for setting environment
variables, or consult the urllib doc and/or code for more details on
how urllib finds out what proxy to use.

> The most that the setuptools documentation says is
> (http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools):
>
> "....If you are behind an NTLM-based firewall that prevents Python
> programs from accessing the net directly, you may wish to first install
> and use the APS proxy server, which lets you get past such firewalls in
> the same way that your web browser(s) do....."

Yeah, I mention this because by far the most common cause of problems
for Windows users is that they're behind one of those infernal
NTLM-based firewalls and thus can't use urllib unaided.


> ps. I'm not sure that this is the right forum for this question.  If it
> isn't feel free to point me to the right place.

The distutils-sig mailing list is the best place to ensure you get an
answer relatively quickly, since I don't subscribe to this list, just
skim it from time to time.



From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Fri Oct 28 03:50:45 2005
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 00:50:45 -0700
Subject: MSH (shell)
In-Reply-To: <1130436264.681787.121250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130436264.681787.121250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130485845.096919.213920@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, I'm enjoying reading the article.
So far I noticed how their select functionality is similar to our
comprehensions, but can also take a statement block. ( no wars please
;-).

I liked the tabular output format for lists of similar items, with the
automatic headings being displayed, e.g:
msh> get-childitem | select name, extension, {
  if ($_.LastWriteTime.year -lt 2004) { "old file" }
  else { "new file" }
}

Name                       Extension                  if
($_.LastWriteTime.year...
----                       ---------
-------------------------
examples.txt               .txt                       new file
output1.html               .html                      old file
output2.html               .html                      old file
somefile.doc               .doc                       new file


I tend to avoid xml but their xml example below was succinct and
relatively painless. Do python libraries allow a similarly readable
version of their:

  msh>   $x = [xml]"<zoo><animal
kind='monkey'><name>Albert</name></animal></zoo>"
msh> $x.zoo.animal

kind                                    name
----                                    ----
monkey                                  Albert

Their "Extract the title and author elements from every item in the
rss.channel tag" example is also impressive.

Looks like an innovative new shell.

- Paddy.



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Mon Oct  3 13:37:07 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:37:07 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1128361034.955f12483be13f3ea8d2a748e48ad153@teranews>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote

> [snipped]
> No compiler will catch this error:
>
> x = 12.0 # feet
> # three pages of code
> y = 15.0 # metres
> # three more pages of code
> distance = x + y
> if distance < 27:
>     fire_retro_rockets()

Actually modern compilers can (http://www.boost.org/libs/mpl/doc/tutorial/dimensional-analysis.html)
at the expense of the programmer's eye health...

George




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Oct 13 19:16:01 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 23:16:01 +0000
Subject: A problem while using urllib
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>
	<434CCFDE.7000409__24352.7919905775$1129107859$gmane$org@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r7apknym.fsf@pobox.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
[...]
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 996, in do_open
>      raise URLError(err)
> urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
> 
> Looking at that part of the course of urrllib2 we see:
> 
>          headers["Connection"] = "close"
>          try:
>              h.request(req.get_method(), req.get_selector(), req.data, 
> headers)
>              r = h.getresponse()
>          except socket.error, err: # XXX what error?
>              raise URLError(err)
> 
> So my conclusion is that there's something in the Cygwin socket module 
> that causes problems not seen under other platforms.
> 
> I couldn't find any obviously-related error in the Python bug tracker, 
> and I have copied this message to the Cygwin list in case someone there 
> knows what the problem is.
[...]

I don't *think* this is related, but just in case:

http://python.org/sf/1208304


John



From franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at  Mon Oct 24 05:29:41 2005
From: franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:29:41 +0200
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1130117957.063267.304210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <q1apl15b5h7sn6tg4deqh6sp5adfb5a6h9@4ax.com>

On 23 Oct 2005 18:39:17 -0700, "Brendan" <spam4bsimons at yahoo.ca> wrote:

>As mentioned, there isn't a whole lot.  I've beta tested Komodo, and it
>looks promising.  SPE might start working now that stani has a mac.
>
>For now I use TextWrangler - a free text editor with good python
>support.  http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/index.shtml
>
>For interactive python, I use PyCrust (though the terminal works just
>as well)

I second want to encourage the use of PyCrust.
If you hit '(', you will get a calltip, the same
is on '.' for code completion.
If you are for example on:
I myself made a patch for getting calltips and Code Completion
on demand, that means, you don't have to go back and clear
the already typed text and enter '(' or '.' again.
I assigned them to Ctrl-Space (code completion) and
Ctrl-Shift-Space for calltips.


-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 05:14:34 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 09:14:34 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private,
	protected and  public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.1081.1127913
	236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhed0c$
	uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhf3id$b7n
	$1@newsreader1.utanet.at> <7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhfs9k$mgq$1@ newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.29.14.16.01.588394@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1142.1128003951.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhgvob$h7g$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<slrndjpp87.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dhjnst$2ha$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <slrndk1tjq.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-09-30, Rocco Moretti schreef <roccomoretti at hotpop.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>>>What if the class author removes a non-private variable or changes a 
>>>method's documented parameters in the next version of the class, because 
>>>he think it'll work better, or just because he can?
>> 
>> Changing an interface is different from changing the implementation.
> > A (documented) interface is like a contract. The implementation is
> > just one way to follow that contract.
>
> Agreed. However, there is also a difference between an interface and 
> "non-private variables."
>
> E.g. you have a library, and playing with the code, you notice that by 
> passing an empty string as a filename, you get the last file accessed. 
> Cool. You write your program using this feature. Problem is, it's a 
> quirk of the implementation, and in the next version, the library author 
> fixes this "bug". Preventing access to private variables wouldn't help - 
> the only thing you touched was the public parameter to a public function.

But this behaviour of a particular client can't break your library.

> Of course, you could have avoided this by only using the documented 
> interface, but if we go that route, you wouldn't have to worry about 
> people accessing private variables, as they wouldn't be documented.

I'm not so much worried about client software that breaks, as I'm
worried about server code that breaks because a client fiddled
with the private stuff.

> There is little in the way of technical problems that are solved by 
> language level enforcement of private variables. The issues in question 
> are mostly social ones, and if you're not reading and following the 
> documented interface, stopping private variable access is not going to 
> prevent most of your problems.

It will prevent problems for others. If you are in a project with
multiple authors, your usage of private variables can break code
that other people rely on.

I you just use undocumented features, you will mostly only create
problems in your own code.

>>> People who think that forbidding access to private variables/methods 
>>> will save themselves from upgrade woes are deluding themselves.
> >
>> It helps, just as locks wont save you from burglars if they really
>> want to rob you, but the locks do help.
>
> Right, but like doors that automatically lock when they close, items 
> which are there to protect you can be a nusaince, especially when you've 
> left your keys on the dining room table.

It is always a trade off. Sometimes you settle for more protection and
less comfort other times you do the opposite. If private variables
would be possible, nobody would force you to use them if you didn't
want to.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From chris.stromberger at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:02:31 2005
From: chris.stromberger at gmail.com (chris)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 08:02:31 -0700
Subject: in-memory db? gadfly?
In-Reply-To: <j6udnWDQ1aThvq7eRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
References: <1127423904.731395.85320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<j6udnWDQ1aThvq7eRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1128694316.592134.317320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

sqlite worked perfectly, thanks.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct  7 09:22:11 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 13:22:11 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qmrd2Ffocu8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkcko1.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1128686332.212150.275360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkctk3.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-07, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at web.de>:
>
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Then argue against my ideas, and not your makings of it.
>>
>> If I just use 'ANY' and you fill that in with C void* like
>> implementation and argue against that, then you are arguing
>> against your own ghosts, but not against what I have in mind.
>
> Well, you didn't tell us what you had in mind.

Indeed I hadn't. It wasn't needed for the question I posed then.

> You just said "let's
> introduce something like any". I showed you existing implementations of
> such a concept that have problems.

But as far as I can see that is a problem of the implementation
not necessarily of the concept.

> You say "thats not what _I_ have in
> mind, so your criticism doesn't apply." Guess what, I can't read your
> mind. But you did not tell me in what your idea is different from
> existing concepts.

Indeed you can't read my mind, but what pops up in your mind shows
your preconceptions. You could have just answered the question
as it was posed, instead of filling in the details yourself, maybe
remarking that you didn't see how it would work with current
type systems you know off.

>> You have not counterd my idea with criticism. You have decorated my
>> idea with how you think it would be implemented (C void*) and argued
>> against that. I don't need to give an implementation to notice, that
>> you jumped to a particular implementation and basicly just countered
>> that implementation, not the idea in general.
>
> Again - where is your idea layed out in (more) detail, so that one can
> discuss them? That was all that I'm asking - which of course you
> carefully avoided...

Sure I'm reluctant to give details. I consider this a hostile
environment, for this kind of proposals. I'm sure people will
be able to come up with all kind of problems my idea won't solve
and will see this as a reason to think the idea is useless.

Since I have no intention to 

>> As far as I'm concerned that was just meant as a matter of fact remark,
>> with no snide intentions.
>
> Where exactly come the facts?

About how you filled in the details yourself when all I mentioned
was a type system with an "ANY" type.

> All I see is some vague "there should be
> something better, by introducing ANY". But no details how typechecking
> then would work. I showed you that existing type systems can't properly
> cope with ANY so far and allow for much errors. Just saying "but mine
> won't" is a little bit thin, don't you think?l

The main idea is that type information would be available at two places.

1) The names, which carry the declared type.

2) The objects which carry the type/class they belong too.

When an object is bound to a name, a check is made that the type of the
object is compatible with the declared type of the name.

A name with type ANY, would be just like any python variable or
instance now. Python could implement this by instead of storing its
variables in dictionaries as (name, value) tuples, by storing them
as (name, declaration, value) tuples and making the necesarry checks
at (re)bind time. Variables that are not declared would get the
ANY declaration so that current scripts would just remain working
as they do now. But as the compiler got more sophisticated some
of these checks might be doable at compile time instead of at
run time.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Mon Oct 10 09:29:58 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:29:58 -0400
Subject: best Pythonic way to do this sort: Python newb
References: <rQl2f.3390$gj1.199@fed1read05>	<7xbr1y9e1c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><ABm2f.3394$gj1.2075@fed1read05>
	<mailman.1817.1128922198.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128951005.d1165aedd9dd2ab17e7b0874cb29f054@teranews>

"Satchidanand Haridas" <sharidas at zeomega.com> wrote:

> >So, I want to sort myList by the return of myFunction( value3 )
> >
> >I tried doing the following... with no luck so far
> >myList.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(myFunction(x[2]), myFunction(y[2]))
> >
> >
> >
> I think the above statement should be as follows:
>
> myList.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(myFunction(x[2]) - myFunction(y[2]))
>
>
>
> hope that helps.

It would help more if you tested it before you posted. cmp takes two arguments (let alone that
subtraction may not be defined for the list elements), so the original version is correct.

George




From jparlar at cogeco.ca  Sat Oct 29 01:33:52 2005
From: jparlar at cogeco.ca (Jay Parlar)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:33:52 -0700
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 25, Issue 522
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7822.1130516403.508.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.7822.1130516403.508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef7ea6fb9eaa5934c082c63655f3d5a8@cogeco.ca>


On Oct 28, 2005, at 9:20 AM, pywrote:
>
>
>
>> From what I have seen Python does not come with an snmp module built
> in, can anyone suggest some other SNMP module (preferably one you have
> used/experienced)..I have googled and seen yapsnmp and pysnmp (which
> seem to be the two most active SNMP modules).

Without a doubt, use pysnmp. The newest version is being paid for by 
the Python Software Foundation, and it includes support for SNMPv3. The 
documentation might be lacking though.

yapsnmp, IIRC, is just a wrapper around the net-snmp libraries, while 
pysnmp is a pure Python implementation. yapsnmp does come with a MIB 
parser though, not sure if pysnmp has one working yet.

Jay P.
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:43:05 2005
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:43:05 -0600
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434f8a54$0$16641$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <dip8pa$7t2$1@sea.gmane.org>

> Kenneth McDonald a ?crit :
>> For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP  (from
>> OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that  I can
>> only compare it to driving in the Bay Area at rush hour (OS X  is like
>> driving in Portland at rush hour--not as bad, but getting  there), but
>> there are really only a couple of things that are really,  absolutely
>> preventing me from making the switch. Number one is the  lack of a
>> decent command line and command-line environment, and I'm  wondering
>> (hoping) if perhaps someone has written a "Python shell"-- something
>> that will look like a regular shell, let users type in  commands, maybe
>> have some of the nice features of bash etc. like tab  completion, etc,
>> and will then execute an underlying python script  when the command is
>> entered. I'm not thinking of IDLE, but something  that is really aimed
>> more at being a system terminal, not a Python- specific terminal.
>> 
>> Yes, I know that Cygwin is out there, but last I looked, they still
>> went through the Win command-line window, which imposes a lot of
>> restrictions.

You can look at ipython: http://ipython.scipy.org.  Its 'pysh' profile does
much of what you describe, and has a dedicated following of win32 users
precisely for your usage case.  It gets installed to your start menu under
win32 as a separate entry from the 'raw' ipython.

Stop by the users list if you have further questions.

Cheers,

f



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  4 22:25:06 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon Keown)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:25:06 -0500
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
Message-ID: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com>

Hi,

    I have programmed a fractal generator (Julia Set/Mandelbrot Set) in 
python in the past, and have had good success, but it would run so 
slowly because of the overhead involved with the calculation.  I 
recently purchased VS .NET 2003 (Win XP, precomp binary of python 
2.4.2rc1) to make my own extensions.  I was wondering if anyone could 
help me figure out why I'm getting obscure memory exceptions (runtime 
errors resulting in automatic closing of Python) with my extension.  It 
seems to run okay if imported alone, but when accompanied in a list of 
instructions such as a function it crashes.  I have implemented it in C 
and C++, although I prefer the latter.  In C I got errors only with 
certain ranges in my function.  I have attached my source to this email 
and hope someone can help me.

Thanks,
Brandon
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From bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Oct 17 15:55:56 2005
From: bronger at physik.rwth-aachen.de (Torsten Bronger)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:55:56 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>

Hall?chen!

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Michael Ekstrand <mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov> writes:
>>
>>> 2) Keybindings in a web application
>> 
>> Not sure here, but JavaScript may be able to do something to
>> accomplish some of this. A web-delivered XUL app can definitely
>> do this. But that's pushing the limits of what can be considered
>> a web application.
>
> All this extreme use of JS misses the point, it's client side
> programming all over again, not really what most of us think of as
> a web interface which puts all the hair on the server side.  If
> you want to program on the client, why not use a reasonable
> language like Python instead of a monstrosity like JS?

Because everybody is capable of running a JS engine, even on
computers on which you don't have rights to install something.

(Not that I like those JS ideas though ...)

Tsch?,
Torsten.

-- 
Torsten Bronger, aquisgrana, europa vetus            ICQ 264-296-646


From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:12:07 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:12:07 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2536.1130240360.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<djks4r$pth$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130231775.770582.199690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2536.1130240360.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130242327.848993.193590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> The joys of open source. Just remember you have now
> made your program
> non-portable. Hope this isn't an issue.

Of course portability is an issue -- on the long run. But on the short
run I am really glad to be able to do a 1 second demo run on my
notebook instead of a 20 seconds demo run. And I am especially glad to
get this 1 second demo by doing a 30-minute hack. (Hopefully ...)



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 22 13:13:58 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:13:58 +0200
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.2269.1129752317.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129761106.725465.42290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djds0o$mde$1@sea.gmane.org>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:

> > reset your brain:
> >
> >     http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm
>
> Neat link.
>
> Can you expand on this:
>
> > a type (returned by type(x))
> ...
> > You cannot change the type.

the page was written before the "type/class unification" in Python 2.2,
at a time where the word "type" had a stricter meaning (referring to C-
level types, not user-level classes).

in CPython 2.2 and later, you can in fact change the type under some
circumstances, as long as the internal structure (the "C-level type") is
identical.  the types involved must (to quote the checkin messages):

    - have the same basic size
    - have the same item size
    - have the same dict offset
    - have the same weaklist offset
    - have the same GC flag bit
    - have a common base that is the same except for maybe the
      dict and weaklist (which may have been added separately at
      the same offsets in both types)
    - both be heap types

this basically limits the feature to classes defined at the Python level
(just like before the unification); most attempts to use arbitrary types
will fail.  e.g.

>>> x.__class__ = dict
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: __class__ assignment: only for heap types

>>> class c(list):
...     pass
...
>>> x.__class__ = c
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: __class__ assignment: 'a' object layout differs from 'c'

I suppose it's time to add a footnote to the objects page...

</F>





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 11:03:52 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:03:52 -0700
Subject: process and spinning slash
References: <1130690731.654048.157590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h58mez.1jo7cnd1lilqm2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

benz <benzwt at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
   ...
> def spin(delay):
> 
>   pattern=['-','\\','|','/','-','\\','|']
> 
>   while 1:
>     for i in pattern:
>       sys.stdout.write(i + " ")
>       sys.stdout.flush()
>       sys.stdout.write("\b\b")
>       time.sleep(delay)
> 
> pid = os.fork()
> 
> if pid == 0:
>   os.execvp("du",("du","-shc","/"))
> else:
>   spin(0.05)
> 
> 
> However, the spinner is kept spinning even the child process was ended.

It would be astonishing if it were otherwise!  The loop in function spin
is deliberately coded to NEVER terminate, so of course it never does.

> Any idea ? Thanks!

Have the spin function accept the pid argument and exit the loop if said
pid has terminated; to check the latter, e.g., os.kill(pid, 0) -- this
will raise an OSError if no process with that pid exists, so you can use
a try/except OSError: to catch that and break as appropriate.


Alex


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Oct 11 18:35:19 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:35:19 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "=?iso-8859-1?q?British=09accent?="...
In-Reply-To: <11knjh2g01gsded@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1856.1128978383.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11knjh2g01gsded@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200510111735.19940.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Tuesday 11 October 2005 09:37 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-10, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> >> Likewise, "dude" is often used when addressing a female but
> >> almost never when speaking about one in the third person.
> >
> > This I have never witnessed.  That's bizarre.
> 
> At least in the upper midwest it seems quite common for
> teen-age boys/girls to address each other as "dude".  For
> example
> 
> "Dude, you have got to go to the concert with us".

Ah, well, isn't that just replacing "man"? It's not really
a form of address at all -- it's an emphasis particle, like
"yo" in Japanese, or any number of curse words in English.

I bet you'll find sentences where an address doesn't make
sense at all.

"Hell no!"

for example, has nothing to do with Christian mythology, it's
just a lot stronger than "No!". When you translate that into
Japanese, might you use "Dame yo!" instead of "Dame!" for example,
Japanese recognizes these as part of its formal grammar,
but ISTM that they exist informally in English, too.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Thu Oct 27 18:51:07 2005
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 15:51:07 -0700
Subject: Help: Quick way to test if value lies within a list of lists of
	ranges?
References: <mailman.2637.1130424453.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130453467.430214.87810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Would this help?


'''
>>> pp(name2ranges)
{'a': [[5, 12], [27, 89], [120, 137]],
 'b': [[6, 23], [26, 84], [200, 222]],
 'c': [[2, 22], [47, 60], [67, 122]]}
>>> names4val(28)
['a', 'b']
>>> names4val(11)
['a', 'c', 'b']
>>> names4val(145)
[]
>>>

'''
from pprint import pprint as pp

name2ranges = {
  'a': [[48,60], [27,89], [5,12], [120,137]],
  'b': [[78,84], [26,79], [200,222], [6,23], [72,74]],
  'c': [[67,122],[2,22], [47,60]]
  }

for name, ranges in name2ranges.iteritems():
  # sort ranges
  name2ranges[name].sort()
  # Coalesce overlapping ranges.
  # If the max of one range is >= the min of the next range then
  # the adjacent ranges are combined
  ln = len(ranges)
  newranges = []
  i = 0
  while i< ln:
    mn,mx = ranges[i]
    j = i+1
    while j< ln and ranges[j][0] <=mx:
      mx = max(mx, ranges[j][1])
      j += 1
    newranges.append([mn,mx])
    i = j
  name2ranges[name] = newranges

def names4val(val):
  " find the names whose ranges intersect the value"
  from bisect import bisect_left
  names = []
  for name,ranges in name2ranges.iteritems():
    bs = bisect_left(ranges, [val,val])
    if (bs and ranges[bs-1][0] <= val <= ranges[bs-1][1] ) or (
        bs <len(ranges) and ranges[bs][0] <= val <= ranges[bs][1] ):
      names.append(name)
  names.sort()
  return names
              
####

Cheers, Pad.



From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct  1 02:30:25 2005
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:30:25 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
Message-ID: <3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>

Sam wrote:
> Jaime Wyant writes:
> 
>> On 9/30/05, Sam <sam at email-scan.com> wrote:
>>> Reinhold Birkenfeld writes:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > after Guido's pronouncement yesterday, in one of the next versions of Python
>>> > there will be a conditional expression with the following syntax:
>>> >
>>> > X if C else Y
>>> >
>>> > which is the same as today's
>>> >
>>> > (Y, X)[bool(C)]
>>>
>>> What's wrong with "C ? X:Y"?
>>>
>>> Aside from ":" being overloaded?
>>>
>> 
>> First thing that comes to my mind is that it is more C-ish (read
>> cryptic) than pythonic (read elegant and understandable).
> 
> And "foo if bar" is Perl-ish; yet, even Perl has the ? : operators.

Perl's "foo if bar" is very different to this one, you should know about this.

For a conditional, syntax must be found, and the tradition of Python
design is not to use punctuation for something that can be solved with
keywords.

Reinhold


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 12 07:17:46 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 11:17:46 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1873.1128997559.509.python-list@python.org>
	<87irw3l0qb.fsf@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96ED7D235D096duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Chris Smith wrote:

> What I really want to do is take four lines of conditional, and put
> them into one, as well as blow off dealing with a 'filler' variable:
> 
> return "the answer is " + "yes" if X==0 else "no"
> 
> 
> Or whatever the final release syntax is.

The syntax is fine, but the semantics might not be what you expected. If I
understand it correctly you need: 

return "the answer is " + ("yes" if X==0 else "no")

Guido's pronouncement said:

> In general, 'if' and 'else' bind less tight than everything except
> lambda.


From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Tue Oct 11 10:27:30 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:27:30 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
>>HTML is a problem on *other* peoples crappy software as well. It
>>wasn't designed to carry code content, but has been hacked up to do
>>that.
 
> It seems to me it goes without saying that you cannot trust code from
> strangers, especially anonymous strangers.  You simply don't run code
> sent in email except from highly trusted individuals.  If you do, that
> is YOUR fault for being such a silly ass not the mail system's ability
> to deliver code.  It is as stupid as running code that came as an
> attachment.
 
> One of the ideas I play with in my essay  is that you could insist
> your correspondents have digital id certificate signed by Thawte or
> other CA attesting to their identity, thus giving you legal recourse
> against them if they send you spam, Trojans etc.
 
> This would slow them down with requests for permission to send. they
> could send only one per certificate.  The  cost and hassle of getting
> the certificate could deter tem, and uniquely identify them for
> blocking and public black lists.

Plus being a total pain for legitimate correspondents and also expensive.

I don't know how much spam other people receive but on one account I
hardly receive any as I reserve it for friends and business. On another
I had about 40 spam messages which took all of ten seconds to delete.
Hardly a serious matter.

Axel

> 
> 
> 
> 


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Thu Oct 20 03:03:31 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:03:31 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message news:b15923-vj4.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
>> There would be if an engine manufacturer refused to provide car
>> manufacturers with ANY engines for any model, unless all buyers were
>> charged for THEIR engine in every model, whether their engine was in
>> there or not.
>>
>> You want to cease this line of apologism.

>     I'm sorry, that's just crazy.

No it's not.

> An engine manufacturer could refuse to 
> provide car manufacturers with ANY engines at all if they wanted to.

Fine - the car manufacturer would get engines somewhere else. Engine
manufacturers do not appear to hold monopoly positions, so the car
manufacturer is not over a barrel over it.  And gearboxes and clutches
work with any engine, not just that particular manufacturer's engines,
and customers will be used to driving with any engine at all, not just
that one.  Maps and other driver aids also work no matter what engine is
in the car, so there is no industry pressure to use that engine and no
other engine.

> It's 
> their engines. They can use any mutually agreeable method to determine the 
> number of engines provided and the price.

Not if they abuse a monopoly position in doing so, which is where we
started.


>     This is not apologism. Microsoft has nothing to apologize for here. 

Then it is apologism. You implode. Thanks and bye.

Peter


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 10 02:56:11 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:56:11 +0200
Subject: __Classes and type tests
References: <mailman.1801.1128897539.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <did39h$61s$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Brian van den Broek wrote:

> The code below exhibits an attempt to refer to the type of a __Class
> from within a method of that class. I've been unable to figure out how
> to make it work as I want, and would appreciate any insight.
> 
> The problem emerged out of a bad design that the good folks on the
> tutor list helped me repair. With that repair, I no longer need nor
> want to do this sort of thing in actual code. But the academic issue
> "How/Can it be done?" still itches.

Define the method outside the class to defeat mangling: 

>>> def __init__(self):
...     if type(self) == __Two:
...             print "two leading underscores"
...
>>> class __Two(object):
...     __init__ = __init__
...
>>> __Two()
two leading underscores
<__main__.__Two object at 0x4029360c>

Peter



From belred at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 01:27:52 2005
From: belred at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:27:52 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <slrndle7ur.3ou.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<1129778582.411476.259500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<1129781346.035866.16660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndle7ur.3ou.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <dj79sn$q27$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dave Cook wrote:
> On 2005-10-20, elbertlev at hotmail.com <elbertlev at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Languages are very similar but Python has more cale avaliable. Much
>>more.
> 
> 
> Cale?  You mean Python has more ruffage?
> 
> Dave Cook


i think you mean "kale" not "cale".  nothing like a hot bowl of tofu kale soup 
while reading the recipes in the "python cookbook".

bryan



From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:50:31 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:50:31 -0400
Subject: crosswords helper program
References: <434cd0b3$0$5378$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <6ugv13-h73.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-12, gg wrote:
> I plan to write a program in Python in order to help me doing 
> crosswords, I was wondering if such a program already existed.
>
> Basically it will get the number of letters of the word (5, 10, 12...) 
> then the letters known (B in second letter, E in 5th letter...) and then 
> search in a dictionary the words matching this criteria

import os
pattern = "B...E.."
wordfile = "/usr/share/dict/words"
cmd = "grep -i '\<" + pattern + "\>' " + wordfile
os.system( cmd )

-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From claird at lairds.us  Thu Oct 20 09:08:02 2005
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:08:02 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<mailman.2289.1129778486.509.python-list@python.org>
	<435757b1$0$21282$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4dgk23-bto.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <435757b1$0$21282$626a54ce at news.free.fr>,
bruno modulix  <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote:
>Bryan wrote:
>> Amol Vaidya wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have
>>> been debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. 
>(snip)
>> 
>> why don't you do what i did?  download ruby and spend a day or two
>> reading "programming ruby" from www.ruby-lang.org/en.  the download
>> python and spend a day or two reading the python tuturial from
>> www.python.org.
>
>Or better: DiveIntoPython
			.
			.
			.
You've already been told all the essentials:  that they're similar,
that specific Web pages usefully contrast them, that *Dive into Python*
and so on are worth reading, ...  I want to emphasize particularly the
wisdom of trying the two for yourself, to see how each fits your own 
tastes.  This is practical advice; it truly is possible to have a 
meaningful experience with Python and/or Ruby over the course of a day.
These languages are FAR more "light-weight" than, for example, C++, 
which typically requires weeks or months of practice before one truly
"gets it".  While you won't know everything about, say, Ruby, in the
first four hours, you *will* be able to write programs independently,
and you'll have a "feel" for how the language works as a whole.


From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 26 09:58:06 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:58:06 GMT
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <1130311728.884961.97530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Dtt7f.168843$xl6.157765@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130311728.884961.97530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <OXL7f.213792$p_1.153311@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> which file names do you mean?
> 
> -Martin.


I've ran across a case where I copied a module from the python libs 
folder to my source directory, it would work fine before I built with 
py2exe, but afterwards it would give a file not found error.  I haven't 
quite figures out why in this case.

To get around it, I renamed the file in my directory, by putting an 
underscore in front of it and importing '_name as name' in my program. 
Everything worked fine after that.

Another case is where I inadvertently had a file name in the file path 
with the same name as a file I was trying to import.  In this case the 
file would import in place of the library file, but then issue errors 
for objects or sub modules not being found.

So if the modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName' are in a 
package, and you have a file in your source folder (or search path) with 
the same name as the directory or file they are in, you could be 
importing the wrong file and then not be finding the sub modules.

Like I said this is a guess, but I thought it might be worth mentioning 
if nothing else to rule out file path problems like these.

Cheers,
    Ron







From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Sun Oct 16 07:36:25 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:36:25 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <piq923-ug7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:

> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
> news:t3k623-c5c.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
>> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> 
>> wrote:
>>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more 
>>> powerful
>>> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb
>>> mainframe terminals.
>>
>> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
>> at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
>> running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.
>>
> And how many people who now have $500 PCs ($200 of which is the cost of the 
> OS) would have been able to afford those?

Well, I almost bought my Sun workstation after three years, as it had
depreciated to nearly nothing in value! As I recall, it would have been
about 2000 pounds then if I had decided to buy it. That was a bit more than
the price of a new 286 at that point. But it had scsi disks! And 8M of
ram instead of just 640KB! And a huge monitor (what were those sun
monitor sizes?) instead of a tichy 640x480 PC screen.

If I recall right, the first computer I bought (after the Sun)
was an 8088 "portable".  I sold it off almost at once in favour of a
386sx20 portable with 1MB of ram and 20MB of disk which cost more than
1000 pounds sterling. I was able to run linux on that machine, after 
upping its memory to 3MB.

Peter


From sherm at dot-app.org  Wed Oct  5 20:39:18 2005
From: sherm at dot-app.org (Sherm Pendley)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:39:18 -0400
Subject: check html file size
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m2u0fvtr61.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>

Richard Gration <richard at zync.co.uk> writes:

> Are you fucking seriously fucking expecting some fucking moron to
> translate your tech geeking fucking code moronicity? Fucking try writing
> it fucking properly in fucking Perl first.

Good fucking job! That's the funniest fucking response I've ever fucking seen
to Xah's fucking moronistic fucking nonsense.

Lenny Bruce would be so fucking proud.

sherm--

-- 
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 16:48:57 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:48:57 -0400
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130264859.869054.291760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86u0f52uh2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"usgog at yahoo.com" <usgog at yahoo.com> writes:

> So how to overwrite the config file directly in script.py instead of
> running script.py with two params?

Don't overwrite the file directly. Save a copy, then rename it. That
way, you don't replace the new version until you know the old version
is safely written to disk, thus avoid accidently losing the data in
the file.

def modfile(filein, mod):
    fileout = filein + ' temp'
    fin = open(filein, 'r')
    fout = open(fileout, 'w')
    fout.write(mod(fin.read()))
    fin.close()
    fout.close()
    os.unlink(filein)
    os.rename(fileout, filein)

The truly paranoid will replace os.unlink(filein) with
os.rename(filein, filein + '.back').

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 16:41:19 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 13:41:19 -0700
Subject: wierd threading behavior
In-Reply-To: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129668079.489717.121400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

> Hello,

> I am just starting to play threading in python, here is a really
> interesting problem I am very curious about:
> "
> import thread
> def main():
>    thread.start_new(test.())

First, delete the dot after "test".
Second, is possibly that the Main() finishes before you can see the
print out of test().



From avnit7 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 15:45:02 2005
From: avnit7 at gmail.com (avnit)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 12:45:02 -0700
Subject: Print to printer
Message-ID: <1130528702.908172.189990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I can't seem to figure out how to print with my printer using python.
I'm using Mac OSX 10.4. I was thinking maybe something with
applescript. Does anyone know?



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:59:45 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:59:45 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2540.1130243790.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
	<1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2540.1130243790.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130245185.304132.110840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Look at how you might do it in other languages. Then you'll realise this
> isn't (just) a Python problem.

Yea your right.  However, for example, in Java, one can use the Process
class, and then read from the stream until its the end (i.e. -1 is
returned).  However, with Python when reading from
subprocess.Popen.stdout ...I don't know when to stop (except for
looking for a ">" or something).  Is there a standard, like read until
"-1" or something?

As I mentioned, os.system("cmd") gives me exactly the
output/interactivity I need...but I can't redirect the output.

Thanks.



From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Wed Oct 26 09:20:22 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:20:22 -0400
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlucge.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlbnq$6jm$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlsflt.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlon4$f2k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlucge.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djnvqr$t7o$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-25, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
>>
>>My biggest complaint here is about returning None or IncomparableValue; 
>>if that happens, then all code that relies on cmp returning a numeric 
>>result will have to be rewritten.
> 
> 
> I don't know. There are two possibilities.
> 
> 1) The user is working with a total order. In that case the None
> or IncomparableValues won't be returned anyway so nothing about
> his code has to change.
> 
> 2) The user is working with a partial order. In that case cmp
> doesn't provide consistent results so the use of cmp in this
> case was a bug anyway.

Case 3) The user is working with an unknown class, using duck typing, 
and expects a total order.  If cmp suddenly returned Incomparable or 
None, the code would break in Unexpected Ways, with Undefined Behavior.

This is a classic "exception versus error code" argument; in this case, 
returning None would be the error flag.  It's almost always better to 
just throw the exception, because then this allows error-checking at a 
more natural level.

>>As for saying that cmp should return some times and raise an exception 
>>other times, I just find it squicky.
> 
> 
> But cmp already behaves this way. The only difference would be that
> the decision would be made based on the values of the objects instead
> of only their class.
> 
> 
>>Admittedly, this is entirely up to 
>>the class designer, and your proposed guideline wouldn't change cmp's 
>>behavior for clases that /are/ totally ordered.
>>
>>Then again, sets excepted, your guideline doesn't seem very applicable 
>>in standard library code.
> 
> 
> Well AFAIAC this isn't specific about library code.

A change that cmp return a 4th possible "value" (None or Incomparable) 
is a fundamental language change.  Because this would break large 
amounts of existing code, it's a bad idea.

A change that cmp throw an exception iff the two objects, rather than 
the two classes, were incomparable (allowing comparisons of( 1+0j and 
2+0j) and ({a} and {a,b}) but not (1+1j and 2+0j) and ({a} and {b})) is 
a stylistic guideline, since it's already possible to write your own 
classes this way.  The only place this change would matter is in the 
standard library code, and in just a few places at that.


From sxn02 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 20:25:39 2005
From: sxn02 at yahoo.com (Sori Schwimmer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Suggestion for (re)try statement - correction
Message-ID: <20051028002539.54994.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"i += 1" is wrong there. I had in my mind at first a
"while" statement.

Sorry...

Sorin



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From gouwsh2 at telkom.co.za  Tue Oct 25 04:26:56 2005
From: gouwsh2 at telkom.co.za (Henko Gouws (H))
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:26:56 +0200
Subject: Listen in promiscuous mode (Sniffer) on UDP port 162 and copy packets
	to another port
Message-ID: <3DC50FF8E8D8CF42983C2ACB9230FA4FA0038A@MNTNRA02-FNP00.telkom.co.za>


Dear reader




An application A opens UDP port 162 and listens for incoming packets.
We have another application B that wants to receive the same
information from UDP port 162 but this application cannot open the
port 162 because it is already opened by application A.  We want both
A and B to receive information from port 162.




Does anyone know how to implement such a solution using Python or give
relevant advice?  Alternatively does anyone know about any postings
that involved Ethernet sniffers or Python programs listening to
network traffic in promiscuous mode?




Thank you




regards

Henko Gouws (Pr. Eng.)

Senior Engineer: Technical Product Development

Telkom Development Lab

Tel:  +27 12 529 7385

Fax: +27 12 548 0065






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From michael+USENET at www.heiming.de  Sat Oct 15 17:38:17 2005
From: michael+USENET at www.heiming.de (Michael Heiming)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:38:17 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F0847955C35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<39u723-ldp.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F08C649FB60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<ig0823-bes.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<wge4f.7949$S43.1222137@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <9f9823-6j8.ln1@news.heiming.de>

In comp.os.linux.misc Matt Garrish <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca>:
> "Michael Heiming" <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote in message 
[..]

>> Dunno what's so BS about the possibility that the wintel mafia
>> works hand in hand, M$ introduces a new OS and Intel faster CPU.

> Your presumption that poor coding has anything to do with CPU development is 
> absurd. There may be times that M$ has to wait on faster chips before 
> pushing new technologies or Intel has to wait on M$ before pushing new chips 
> (like their 64bit chips that probably won't be get over-hyped until the next 
> iteration of Winblows rolls around), but that's hardly evidence of the two 
> working hand-in-hand.

Doesn't really matter who is providing faster something that'll
need or provide more power, the other will catch up soon, just to
keep the game going.

>> People need to use the first, luckily both come bundled with the
>> latest PC people just need to buy right now. Iirc this is called
>> marketing, you don't seem to have much clue about.
>>

> Er, that's not called marketing but a software/hardware bundle. Marketing 
> would be the propaganda that tries to convince you that you need both. When 
> you have no option that's not marketing but a monopoly, which sort of brings 
> this all full-circle...

Ops, sorry. Having no option is M$ marketing (monopoly) for the
usual user. Glad to see you got my point. ;-)

-- 
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry at urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 71: The file system is full of it


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Fri Oct 28 00:26:29 2005
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 04:26:29 GMT
Subject: Quick way to test if value lies within a list of lists of ranges?
References: <mailman.2637.1130424453.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VLh8f.24645$Bf7.19786@tornado.texas.rr.com>

"Ben O'Steen" <bosteen at maysubdivide.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.2637.1130424453.509.python-list at python.org...
Scenario:
=========

Using PyGame in particular, I am trying to write an application that will
run a scripted timeline of events, eg at 5.5 seconds, play xxx.mp3 and put
the image of a ball on screen, at 7.8 seconds move the ball up and down.
At this point, I hear you say 'Oh, like Flash'.

Yes, well... Like Flash, but I don't want to take this app in the same
direction as Macromedia took Flash, nor do I (ever) want the two to be
compatible.

One particular need is for the timeline to be quickly traversable. If I
want to go to time=239.4 seconds, I'd like it to go there pretty much
painlessly and hopefully with one call. (Same with play, reverse and pause
really) I also want it to play for a long duration, with lots of different
items (images, audio, etc.)

<snip>

Ben -

This sounds very similar to a discrete event simulator, which uses a
timeline to track when the "next" event is supposed to occur, and advances
by events, rather than by straight elapsing of time (so that a 3 week
simulation doesn't take 3 weeks to run!).  SimPy does this very thing, and
it also has a "real-time" mode so that simulations can be watched as they
would really transpire.

The one difference is that with SimPy, you don't really script the timeline
ahead of time, but instead you script the individual events, and the
resources that the various processes have to compete/contend for, thereby
causing the events to get spread out over time.

But you might get some clues from SimPy's traversal of the event queue, and
the alternative model of building the queue dynamically while "executing" it
might give you some other ideas about your game design.  (I do recall that
SimPy's event queue can eventually grow to hold thousands of events, and a
huge speedup was accomplished a ver versions ago by using the bisect module
to insert new events at the proper location in the queue.  But this is only
relevant if you build the queue dynamically.)

-- Paul




From http  Thu Oct 13 05:58:01 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 02:58:01 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> That particular implementation used 3 or 4 tag-bits. Of course you are
> right that nowadays python won't notice the difference, as larger nums
> get implicitely converted to a suitable representation. But then the
> efficiency goes away... Basically I think that trying to come up with
> all sorts of optimizations for rather marginal problems (number
> crunching should be - if a python domain at all - done using Numarray)

I don't think it's necessarily marginal.  Tagged ints can be kept in
registers, which means that even the simplest code that does stuff
with small integers becomes a lot more streamlined, easing the load on
both the Python GC and the cpu's memory cache.  Right now with the
bytecode interpreter, it probably doesn't matter, but with Pypy
generating native machine code, this kind of thing can make a real
difference.


From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  1 18:58:45 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:58:45 -0400
Subject: Class Help
Message-ID: <BAY103-F19ACFB39FA1BF89D078523A28E0@phx.gbl>

To continue with my previous problems, now I'm trying out classes.  But I 
have a problem (which I bet is easily solveable) that I really don't get.  
The numerous tutorials I've looked at just confsed me.For intance:

>>>class Xyz:
...     def y(self):
...             q = 2
...
>>>Xyz.y()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unbound method y() must be called with Xyz instance as first 
argument
(got nothing instead)


So. . .What do I have to do? I know this is an extremley noob question but I 
think maybe if a person explained it to me I would finally get it =/


thanks in advance,

-Ivan

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From http  Sat Oct  1 05:25:26 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Oct 2005 02:25:26 -0700
Subject: Recursive Property of Octal Numbers
References: <mailman.1312.1128157634.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x3bnlwpvd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> writes:
> I'm very curious about what is going on here. I'm sure my curiosity has 
> something to do with ignorance of some fundamental concept of computer 
> science (maybe that 8 is just a vertical infinity?):

Python doesn't have a character type.  A character is just a string of
length 1.  So 'a'[0] is the same as 'a'.  Thus 'a'[0][0][0]...[0] is
also the same as 'a'.


From cfbolz at gmx.de  Tue Oct 18 18:07:18 2005
From: cfbolz at gmx.de (Carl Friedrich Bolz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:07:18 +0200
Subject: Dealing with Excel
In-Reply-To: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43557216.6030101@gmx.de>

Hi!

Robert Hicks wrote:
> I need to pull data out of Oracle and stuff it into an Excel
> spreadsheet. What modules have you used to interface with Excel and
> would you recommend it?

if it is enough to produce a file that excel can read (in contrast to "a 
real .xls file"), you could use the csv module:

http://python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/module-csv.html

Cheers,

Carl Friedrich Bolz



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Oct  6 09:00:23 2005
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:00:23 +0100
Subject: updating local()
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di3757$oql$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Flavio" <fccoelho at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128603314.197733.119160 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Now what would you do if you wanted to pass a lot of variables (like a
> thousand) to a function and did not wanted the declare them in the
> function header?

I'd lie down until I felt better.




From hmcy2002 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 00:58:44 2005
From: hmcy2002 at yahoo.co.uk (Geirr)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 21:58:44 -0700
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <1130262592.870695.278550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130257332.726811.135510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130262592.870695.278550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130302724.136321.286530@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I obviously didnt read it good enough :) Tnxs anyway for extremly fast
response



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 12 01:49:32 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:49:32 +0200
Subject: TurboGears /.-ed, >new == True< or >new == "True"<
References: <v7ydnXDyJdoO6dHeRVn-rw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <dii85d$rbm$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andy Leszczynski wrote:

> watch this:
> http://www.turbogears.org.nyud.net:8090/docs/wiki20/20MinuteWiki.mov
>
> or read this:
> http://www.turbogears.org.nyud.net:8090/docs/wiki2 0/page4.html
>
> should not it be:
>
> 2 def save(self, pagename, data, submit, new):
> 3 hub.begin()
> 4 if new == True:
> 5     page = Page(pagename=pagename, data=data)
> 6 else:
> 7     page = Page.byPagename(pagename)
> 8     page.data = data
>
> instead of:
>
> 4 if new == "True":

from page 5:

http://www.turbogears.org.nyud.net:8090/docs/wiki20/page5.html

    Converting incoming arguments

    Something that's a little ugly in that save method is the
    'if new == "True"'. Wouldn't it be nicer to just use the
    more pythonic 'if new'? Piece of cake... we just need to
    use a validator. /.../

</F>





From jeremy+python at jeremysanders.net  Thu Oct 20 15:49:37 2005
From: jeremy+python at jeremysanders.net (Jeremy Sanders)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:49:37 +0100
Subject: ANN: Veusz 0.8 released
Message-ID: <mailman.2377.1129910700.509.python-announce-list@python.org>

Veusz 0.8
---------
Velvet Ember Under Sky Zenith
-----------------------------
http://home.gna.org/veusz/
 
Veusz is Copyright (C) 2003-2005 Jeremy Sanders <jeremy at jeremysanders.net>
Licenced under the GPL (version 2 or greater)
 
Veusz is a scientific plotting package written in Python (currently
100% Python). It uses PyQt for display and user-interfaces, and
numarray for handling the numeric data. Veusz is designed to produce
publication-ready Postscript output.
 
Veusz provides a GUI, command line and scripting interface (based on
Python) to its plotting facilities. The plots are built using an
object-based system to provide a consistent interface.
 
Changes from 0.7:
 Please refer to ChangeLog for all the changes.
 Highlights include:
  * Datasets can be linked together with expressions
  * SVG export
  * Edit/Copy/Cut support of widgets
  * Pan image with mouse
  * Click on graph to change settings
  * Lots of UI improvements
 
Features of package:
 * X-Y plots (with errorbars)
 * Images (with colour mappings)
 * Stepped plots (for histograms)
 * Line plots
 * Function plots
 * Fitting functions to data
 * Stacked plots and arrays of plots
 * Plot keys
 * Plot labels
 * LaTeX-like formatting for text
 * EPS output
 * Simple data importing
 * Scripting interface
 * Save/Load plots
 * Dataset manipulation
 * Embed Veusz within other programs
 
To be done:
 * Contour plots
 * UI improvements
 * Import filters (for qdp and other plotting packages, fits, csv)
 
Requirements:
 Python (probably 2.3 or greater required)
   http://www.python.org/
 Qt (free edition)
   http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/
 PyQt (SIP is required to be installed first)
   http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/
   http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/
 numarray
   http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray
 Microsoft Core Fonts (recommended)
   http://corefonts.sourceforge.net/
 PyFITS (optional)
   http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/pyfits
 
For documentation on using Veusz, see the "Documents" directory. The
manual is in pdf, html and text format (generated from docbook).
 
If you enjoy using Veusz, I would love to hear from you. Please join
the mailing lists at
 
https://gna.org/mail/?group=veusz
 
to discuss new features or if you'd like to contribute code. The
newest code can always be found in CVS.



From renting at astron.nl  Tue Oct 18 06:44:05 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:44:05 +0200
Subject: OT: MS litigation history, was MS FAQ
Message-ID: <s354ee3b.051@server7.nfra.nl>


 
 
>>>"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> 10/18/05 7:21 am >>> 
> 
>"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
>message news:8b09l1tgavuiu3hmatva34624lvsjn6mtl at 4ax.com... 
> 
>>On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:44:55 -0700, "David Schwartz" 
>><davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted : 
> 
>>>   It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's 
>>>obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with 
>>>Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or 
>>>fraud. 
> 
>>I think that what they did borders on force/fraud. 
> 
>   I don't think any of it bordered on force or fraud. However, their 
>obligation to their shareholders requires them to do anythign that borders 
>on force/fraud so long as it isn't force/fraud. However, the use of things 
>too close to force/fraud often backfires. Microsoft has an obligation to be 
>strategic and look nice where those things beneficially impact the bottom 
>line. 
> 
>   It's Bill Gates' job to make his company worth as much as possible. 
> 
>   DS 
> 
>

I think MS obligation to its shareholders to maximise profits, does seem to make them cross the line quite frequently. Because of the slow legal process it seems that it's more profitable to do so.
A lot of these were however settled out of court, so technically, in a lot of them MS was not proven to have crossed the line, it does show a certain pattern though, some examples for googling "Microsoft lawsuit":
- 1982 Microsoft vs Seattle Computer Products, settled out of court.
- 1982 Microsoft vs Digital Research, DR won.
- 1985 Microsoft vs Apple, settled by Apple leasing MS access to the MacOS code.
- 1988-1998 Microsoft vs Apple, settled out of court, MS buys $150 mil Apple stock
- 1989 Microsoft vs DEC, settled out of court, MS paid $150 mil
- 1994 Microsoft vs Stac Electronics, MS lost, paid $84 mil
- 1996 Microsoft vs Novell/Caldera, settled out of court, MS paid $200 mil
- 1998-2002 Microsoft vs DOJ&20 states, MS lost, MS ordered to split up overturned in appeal.
- 2003 Microsoft vs Time-warner, settled out of court, MS pays $750 mil
- 2004 Microsoft vs EU, MS fined $613 mil
- 2004 Microsoft vs Sun, settled out of court, MS pays $700 mil

these guys also have a list, but it contains very few details:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24621
They compute a total of over 9 billion in fines/settlements over the 30 year history of Microsoft.
 
To me it seems that MS finds it more profitable to do cross the line, and just pay the fines afterwards. I find it a real flaw in the corporate legal system that this is a valid way of doing business. That's a whole different topic though.




From http  Thu Oct 27 12:41:53 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 09:41:53 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     I defy you to find any court that has ruled this practice illegal for a 
> company that does not have a monopoly. Because if they did, I'm going after 
> Doctor's Associates and Kenmore.

Of course it's legal for non-monopoly companies.  You seem to think
Microsoft's illegal monopoly is an irrelevant detail.  It is not.


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 23 17:35:32 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:35:32 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <863bmsakgp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djgm0r$k12$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86y84j7w7v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>> Instead, you outline a class of actions and tag them
>> all as illegal. That's why we have laws against assault and battery
>> and unsafe driving. And laws against exercising monopoly power in an
>> unfair manner.
>     Interesting how you, again, equate a gun and an argument. It is very 
> important to you to justify responding to arguments with guns. However, I 
> reject that premise at its roots, not just in your application of it.

Another straw man. I never mentioned the word "gun" at all, and none
of the crimes I discussed require a gun.

You apparently aren't interested in constructive intercourse on the
question. You're just interesting in knocking down your own
arguments. Personally, I'd rather not watch you masterbate.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Oct  5 04:24:48 2005
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:24:48 +0300
Subject: Does any one recognize this binary data storage format
References: <1123608554.533982.52870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<ddatkk$10k$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
	<1123617422.783846.62590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11fi4piovsrgoe1@corp.supernews.com> <42f9187e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<11fi98edg5mha3f@corp.supernews.com>
	<42f97878.1053366641@news.oz.net> <42f98217.1055829672@news.oz.net>
	<1123677037.339759.216980@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<42f9fb59.1086871718@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <m4s5k19trcd41c768odp6qh3nkiqca6l5h@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:23:22 GMT, rumours say that bokr at oz.net (Bengt
Richter) might have written:

>BTW, my second post was doing ''.join(chr(int(h[i:i+2],16)) for i in xrange(0,16,2))
>to undo the hexlify you had done (I'd forgotten that there's a binascii.unhexlify ;-)

And there's also str.decode('hex'), at least after 2.3 .
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best.
"Dear Paul,
please stop spamming us."
The Corinthians


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 08:28:26 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:28:26 +0100
Subject: What is executed when in a generator
In-Reply-To: <dhtq5k$62c$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
References: <dhtq5k$62c$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <dhtsh3$691$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:
> I thought that the following sequence
> 
> gl=0
> def gen(x):
>      global gl
>      gl=x
>      yield x
> 
> s=gen(1)
> 
> suspends the generator just before the yield, so after the
> assignment of s gl becomes 1.
> 
> Well, no. It is still zero. If I put
> 
> print "something"
> 
> before the yield, this doesn't get executed either. *EVERYTHING*
> from the beginning until the yield gets executed only upon s.next().
> 
> Could you tell me please where can I read something in depth about the
> semantics of generators? I feel a bit lost.
> Thank you.
> 

The first hing you need to realise is that s is a generator, and it 
needs to be used in an iterative context to see the (sequence of) 
yielded results:

  >>> s = gen(1)
  >>> s
<generator object at 0x4e028c>

The easiest way to do this is to use the generator in a loop - though of 
course in this case the sequence of yielded results is going to be of 
length 1 ...

  >>> for o in s:
  ...   print o
  ...
1
  >>>

It's easier to see the power of this when the generator yields several 
results, either from a loop or otherwise:

  >>> def shg(n):
  ...   for i in range(n):
  ...     if i % 2:
  ...       yield i
  ...
  >>> s = shg(6)
  >>> s
<generator object at 0x4e040c>
  >>> for i in s:
  ...   print i
  ...
1
3
5
  >>>

The reason for this is so you can create multiple (parameterised) 
generators using different calls:

  >>> s1 = shg(3)
  >>> s2 = shg(7)
  >>> print [i for i in s1]
[1]
  >>> print [i for i in s2]
[1, 3, 5]
  >>>

Fredrik Lundh has already pointed you to the full description, so I'll 
content myself with adding that you can, if you want to you can call the 
generator's next() method to access the next in its sequence of results:

  >>> s1 = shg(3)
  >>> s2 = shg(7)
  >>> print [(i, s2.next()) for i in s1]
[(1, 1)]
  >>> print [i for i in s2]
[3, 5]

Hope this makes things a little clearer.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From http  Tue Oct  4 17:26:16 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 14:26:16 -0700
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <mailman.1470.1128460780.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xmzlpj7nr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mohammed Smadi <smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> writes:
> #transmission socket
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,  socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> s.bind(("",hp_port)) # do some error checking
> ...
> any suggestions for alternative implementation?

In this particular instance, don't bind the transmission socket.  I'm
also not sure why you set SO_REUSEADDR.  I've done some socket
programming but am no expert.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Oct 22 14:47:01 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:47:01 -0500
Subject: Zope and Persistence
In-Reply-To: <1130002447.553341.226500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130002447.553341.226500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510221347.01369.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 22 October 2005 12:34 pm, ryankaskel at gmail.com wrote:
> I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post a Zope question
> but I figure many here are familiar with it.

You will do much better to use the Zope users' mailing list. Go to
zope.org and follow the mailing lists link to sign up.

> I'm confused about the
> role of the ZMI when it comes to development. I want to write a simple
> script that logs page hits. I wrote it in what was called a Script
> (Python) resource in the ZMI. When I access the page it gives an error
> saying that this file cannot import Persistence, etc.

Python scripts are NOT Python modules, and you should not have to
import anything to make use of persistence. Objects you manipulate
using the ZMI interface are pretty much always objects in the ZODB
database (anything that shows up as an "object" or a "property" in
the ZMI is a persistent object).

What you want to do is add an integer "property" to the folder containing
the script (i.e. "context" or "container", depending on whether you want
to maintain a count in the directory from which the script is called,
or one unique counter where the script is stored).  That's your counter.

Also, be sure to follow the "help" link in the ZMI and use the online
API documentation.

> This makes sense
> but where would I put this script and how would I invoke it? It is only
> supposed to store an integer in Data.fs. Thanks.

If you actually needed imports and access to the internal ZODB machinery,
then you would need to write a "Product", not work in the ZMI at all.

But you don't.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From nospam at here.com  Mon Oct 10 12:56:22 2005
From: nospam at here.com (Matt Feinstein)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:56:22 -0400
Subject: Learning Python
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <a97lk1ppjkmmtvnmj64iu9tubobf0e0ueh@4ax.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:50:18 -0400, Paul DiRezze <pdirezze at rogers.com>
wrote:

>I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at 
>learning how to program in Python.  Here's a list of the places I've 
>bookmarked:
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/ and more specifically
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
>http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
>http://www.python.org/topics/
>
>I'm looking for additional resources (links, names of books, 
>whatever...) that you think may help me out.
>
>I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know 
>procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and 
>polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as I've 
>written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a primer in 
>OO programming).
>
>Any ideas?

http://diveintopython.org/


Matt Feinstein

--
There is no virtue in believing something that can be proved to be true.


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct  9 05:47:05 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 10:47:05 +0100
Subject: [Pythoncard-users] Re: Pythoncard mental block
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510072148s11633d59x6ae711f795a7a204@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1128705924.303422.31650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	
	<pan.2005.10.08.02.06.48.557989@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<312cfe2b0510072148s11633d59x6ae711f795a7a204@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4348E719.1060706@tweedly.net>

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:

> The Python-Card guys are really helpful, 
> <pythoncard-users at lists.sourceforge.net 
> <mailto:pythoncard-users at lists.sourceforge.net>>, you may have to 
> register on sourceforge to get on their list.
>
> In the meantime I went ahead and cc'd them on this.  Python-Card guys, 
> make sure to cc Steven as he may not be on the list.
>
Thanks Greg.

>
>     > Hi!!
>     >
>     > I am working on a school project and I decided to use PythonCard and
>     > wxPython for my GUI development. I need a password window that will
>     > block unwanted users from the system. I got the pop-up password
>     > question to work...
>
>     I haven't seen any replies to this, so even though I don't actually
>     use Pythoncard I'll take a wild shot in the dark.
>
>
>     >    def on_openBackground(self, event):
>     >
>     >         result = dialog.textEntryDialog(self,
>     >                                     'System',
>     >                                     'Please enter your password: ',
>     >                                     '')
>     >
>     > .....but I don't exactly remember how to check if the entered
>     password
>     > is correct. Say I hard code the password to be 'hello', then how
>     would I
>     > check if this was the input or if it wasn't???
>
Usually, you'll do something like ...

>             result = dialog.textEntryDialog(self, 'Enter your 
> password:', 'Password',
>                 '', wx.TE_PASSWORD)
>             if result.accepted and result.text != '':
>                 self.pwd = result.text
>             else:
>                 <do something appropriate if you don't have a password 
> to use>

Note the last parameter wx.TE_PASSWORD - this ensures that the 
characters typed are echoed as starts (or bullets, or something) so they 
can't be read by anyone overlooking the user.  [you may need to add an 
"import wx" to use this]

The Text Entry Dialog has both an "OK" and a "Cancel" button (and can be 
simply closed), so it's important to check that result.accepted is True 
before using any text entered.

The sampleLauncher of small demos and samples that comes with PythonCard 
has a an example of usage for every kind of dialog, and most of the 
components, so it can be a good source for questions like this.  Also, 
you can often find what you need by using the FindFiles utility (comes 
with PythonCard) to find examples of usage within the PythonCard samples 
subdirectory.

>     Lastly, I might not have used Pythoncard, but years ago I used to use
>     Hypercard rather a lot. In Hypercard, the password dialog would use a
>     one-way hash function to encrypt the typed response into a large
>     integer
>     value. I assume Pythoncard is designed to do the same thing as
>     Hypercard.
>
The parallels with Hypercard aren't that strong. :-)

In this case, PythonCard is more versatile (i.e. less helpful) - it just 
returns the string entered, leaving it up to you whether to one-way hash 
it, encrypt it, use it as an MD5 key phrase, or whatever.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct  3 16:30:52 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:30:52 -0500
Subject: Convert hex to string
In-Reply-To: <1128370840.468590.27030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128370840.468590.27030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051003203052.GC16201@unpythonic.net>

it *is* a string.

because most of the characters are not printable, they're presented using hex
notation when you repr() the string.  That's what entering an expression in the
interactive interpreter does (except that it never prints 'None').

If you really want to write whatever those bytes are, then do something like
>>> print x
or 
>>> sys.stdout.write(x)

Jeff
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From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Wed Oct 12 16:39:33 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:39:33 -0700
Subject: piping out binaries properly
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3r5ak9FhsmfcU1@individual.net>

"Andy Leszczynski" <leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam> wrote in message 
news:o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg at comcast.com...
>I have got following program:
>
> import sys
> import binascii
> from string import *
> sys.stdout.write(binascii.unhexlify("41410A4141"))
>
>
> when I run under Unix I got:
>
> $ python u.py > u.bin
> $ od -t x1 u.bin
> 0000000 41 41 0a 41 41
>
> and under Windows/Cygwin following:
>
> $ python u.py > u.bin
> $ od -t x1 u.bin
> 0000000 41 41 0d 0a 41 41
> 0000006
>
>
> The question is how can I pipe out binary content properly and platform
> independently?
>
>
> A.

try:
    import msvcrt, os
    msvcrt.setmode(sys.stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY)
except:
    pass




From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 14 10:03:25 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:03:25 -0400
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3r83a5Fi1rt6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xfyr5qdxh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2049.1129264278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xll0wofw8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3r9gbpFic3e9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <86k6ggtcuq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> And regarding the "zero exceptions" - I know for sure that quite a few
> programs were crashing when the transition in 68K from 24 bit
> addresses to real 32 bit was done on popular systems like the ATARI ST
> - as some smart-asses back then used the MSByte for additional
> parameter space.
>
> I can't say though if that was only in assembler writen code - quite
> popular back then even for larger apps - or a compiler optimization. I
> do presume the former.

Being one of the smart-asses in question, I'll say that in some cases
the answer was "neither". It wasn't hard to convince a C compiler to
let you fool with the high-order bits of a pointer. I don't think any
of the Amiga compilers would do that on purpose, though.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  6 16:56:30 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:56:30 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <_0g1f.135529$xl6.20871@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com><R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com><ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com><4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net><1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews><slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com><slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><6xO0f.166857$p_1.72982@tornado.tampabay.rr.com><4344c53e.3325034196@news.oz.net>	<EJe1f.534$ae.439@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>	<mailman.1631.1128627315.509.python-list@python.org>
	<_0g1f.135529$xl6.20871@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <di431m$ej1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ron Adam wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ron Adam wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Is there a way to conditionally decorate?  For example if __debug__ is
>>>True, but not if it's False?  I think I've asked this question before. (?)
>>
>>
>>the decorator is a callable, so you can simply do, say
>>
>>    from somewhere import debugdecorator
>>
>>    if not __debug__:
>>        debugdecorator = lambda x: x
> 
> 
> Ah... thanks.
> 
> I suppose after(if) lambda is removed it would need to be.
> 
>     def nulldecorator(f):
>         return f
> 
>     if not __debug__:
>        debugdecorator = nulldecorator
> 
It would be easier to write

     if not __debug__:
         def debugdecorator(f):
             return f

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Thu Oct 20 17:20:09 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:20:09 +0100
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129823975.023490.287440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  
	<mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>  
	<1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  
	<mailman.2310.1129819963.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129823975.023490.287440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202205340.13901@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, grunar at gmail.com wrote:

> On this line of thought, what about the += operator?  That might be more 
> intuative than //.  I could even use -= for not in.

You're going to have to explain to me how using an assignment operator for 
something other than assignment is intuitive!

-1 on this one from me, i'm afraid.

Using 'in' would be good. It does require some truly puke-inducing 
contortions, though; since 'in' calls __contains__ on the right-hand 
operand, and that's likely to be a list, or some other type that's not 
under your control, you have to cross your fingers and hope that whatever 
it is implements __contains__ with equality tests with the probe object on 
the left-hand side and the candidates on the right (as lists do, at least 
in 2.4.1). then, you just have to make your table names do the right thing 
when compared to strings.

It's a shame (sort of) that you can't define entirely new operators in 
python. What we need is a __operate__(self, op, arg) special method, so 
you could do:

>>> class Operable:
... 	def __operate__(self, op, arg):
... 		print "operating with", op, "on", arg
... 
>>> o = Operable()
>>> o <~> "foo"
operating with <~> on foo

I'm sure that would do *wonders* for program readability :).

tom

-- 
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END


From x_tek at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  4 13:59:21 2005
From: x_tek at yahoo.com (x_tek)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 10:59:21 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128448761.740514.159020@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I would write a companion program that works like this:

$ protector -lock filename.exe

and

$ protector -unlock filename.exe

the -lock switch would simply get the file size of filename.exe
then generate a random chunk of data the same size, xor it
with filename.exe and write the chunk data to a thumbdrive.
filename.exe would now be 'garbage'

the -unlock switch would then just read in the chunk of data
from the thumbdrive then xor filename.exe with it to restore
the file.

this will stop most anyone from getting at filename.exe
without the thumbdrive



From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct  9 09:49:42 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:49:42 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<8ohgk1p9s6pgaq8d67bgpjg7i8i22ngiul@4ax.com>
	<1128820635.056326.87380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Io3IEu.52s@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote or quoted:
> Roedy Green wrote:

> > Just how long do you want to stall evolution?  Do you imagine people
> > 200 years from now will be still be using pure ASCII text unable to
> > find a solution to JavaScript viruses (turn off JS), pop-up( disable
> > popups) etc.?
> 
> People in their sky-cars turning off JavaScript in their browsers: what
> a thought!

Javascript can be turned off in *mail readers* - by their manufacturers.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 22:50:07 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:50:07 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:53:07 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    Umm, it's not a judgment. Microsoft said you can sell Windows and
>> other operating systems, but there will be a charge for every
>> machine you sell without Windows -- if you want to be able to buy
>> Windows wholesale. Someone could comply with this by not selling any
>> other operating systems at all and never pay the fee. Therefore,
>> this is a lesser restriction than saying you can only sell Windows
>> wholesale if you don't sell or offer any competing systems. If I
>> have the right to say you can't use my car at all, I have the lesser
>> right to impose the lesser restriction that you can only use my car
>> if you pay me $10.

> It makes a big difference that MS has a monopoly.

    See my other response to this specific argument.

> If I open an washing machine store and Maytag says, "we only sell
> wholesale to you if you agree to sell our brand exclusively."
>
> What Microsoft did is different for three reasons:
>
> 1. the  Maytag agreement  made up front, not imposed to shut down a
> business who has never signed a prior exclusivity contract.

    The Microsoft agreement is also up front. It's not "imposed" in any 
sense except that it's one of the conditions for buying Windows wholesale.

> 2. The appliance store has lots of other brands to sell. In my case,
> failing to comply with MS's illegal and immoral demand would put me
> out of busness. They were forcing me into commit criminal acts or lose
> my business.

    In other words, what Microsoft had to offer you was of such value that 
you'd have no customers without it. To put it another way, those are 
Microsoft's customers because it's your ability to sell Microsoft products 
that makes your business.

> 3. Maytag makes the machines.  In the computer instance, we at CMP
> custom build the computers. Microsoft have no business telling me what
> to do when they supplied only one component. I could not even sell a
> BARE computer.

    The "one component" is what makes the product you're selling. It's 
"Windows PCs" that people are buying and it's the look and feel of a 
"Windows PC" that makes it what it is.

    There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one 
preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to other with 
minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do compete with 
Windows PCs.

    DS




From Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com  Wed Oct  5 16:51:59 2005
From: Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com (Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:51:59 -0400 
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
Message-ID: <20051005205213.BAAE91E4005@bag.python.org>


I'll assume that you are not familiar with Windows, so forgive me if you
know this.

1) Go to a command prompt.  

The location of this depends on which OS you are running.  But, you can go
to Start / Run... and type in cmd or command.  This will give you a window
with a 'DOS' prompt.

2) Type path=path;c:\python24\ 
c:\python24\ is where I have python installed.  I won't get into how to make
this permanent.

3) type python and you have the command line shell you know and love.


If this does not work for you, let me know.

Michael



-----Original Message-----
From:
python-list-bounces+michael.coll-barth=verizonwireless.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+michael.coll-barth=verizonwireless.com at pytho
n.org]On Behalf Of k8
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:39 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Using command line args on Windows


Hello-

I'm stuck on a Windows machine today and would love to fully play with
and test a simple python script.  I want to be able to type "python
myscript myarg" somewhere.  Is there anything out there to help me?  My
main concern is playing with the myarg in the sys.argv list.  I've been
mucking around with IDLE without much success.


___________________________________________________________________
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product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
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If you have received this communication in error, please notify me
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it and all
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From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Oct 26 19:03:40 2005
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 16:03:40 -0700
Subject: NEWBIE
References: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130367819.973474.85660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

brenden wrote:
> hey everyone....i'm new to all this programming and all this stuff and
> i just wanted to learn how to do it...
>
> does anyone think they can teach me how to work with python?

Don't waste readers' time with such vague and broad requests. Instead,
post a specific question, for example showing a small fragment of
Python code that does not work as you expect. Or ask how to do XYZ in
Python, if you are unable to find the answer using Google.

"Newbie" by itself is always a bad subject line. Having a specific
question should help you form a better title for your message.

There is a mailing list for those learning Python at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor , but even there, you
will need to ask more specific questions.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 07:17:33 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:17:33 +0200
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net><3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<dil4t3$95o$00$1@news.t-online.com><3r6p5oFhvtg1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<dileg1$1t2$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <dilfo9$j64$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Are we talking about the same setdefault()?
>
> setdefault(...)
>    D.setdefault(k[,d]) -> D.get(k,d), also set D[k]=d if k not in D

note that it might be spelled "setdefault", but it should be pronounced
"get or set".

</F> 





From gordon at panix.com  Thu Oct 27 13:44:56 2005
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:44:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <djr3mn$ekm$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <djr2no$bto$1 at nntp.webmaster.com> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>     What is an "illegal monopoly"?

A monopoly that acts in certain ways, abusing its monopoly power.  There's
nothing inherently illegal about having a monopoly; it only becomes illegal
when you abuse the power.

-- 
John Gordon            "It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese."
gordon at panix.com



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 16 18:04:05 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:04:05 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Malte Clasen <malte.clasen at arcor.de> writes:

> Claudio Grondi wrote:
>> What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser as a
>> GUI?
>
> Nothing, but session management isn't trivial with http
> interfaces. You have to deal with the back button of the browsers,
> bookmarks to pages that result from posted forms, users leaving the
> application without notice, etc..

This fact seems to have escaped the notice of most developers of web
applications. They just fail and/or misbehave under all those
conditions.
        
        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From xah at xahlee.org  Sun Oct 16 07:06:15 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 04:06:15 -0700
Subject: tuple versus list
Message-ID: <1129460775.484350.209520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

suppose i'm going to have a data structure like this:

[
[imgFullPath,(width, height)],
[imgFullPath,(width, height)],
[imgFullPath,(width, height)],
[imgFullPath,(width, height)],
...
]

should i use (width,height) or [width,height]?
what advantage i get to use n-tuple instead of the generic list?

Thanks.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 07:25:22 2005
From: pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com (pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 04:25:22 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2672.1130498035.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2672.1130498035.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130498722.108662.245830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Okay, how do I do this?

Also, if you look at the code, I build a 32-bit unsigned integer from
the bytes I read. And the 32-bit pattern I am looking for can start on
_any_ byte boundary in the file. It would be nice if I could somehow
just scan for that pattern explicitly, without having to build a 32-bit
integer first. If I could tell python "scan this file for the bytes 0,
0, 1, 0 in succession. How many 0, 0, 1, 0 did you find?"

/David



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 17 08:11:41 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:11:41 +0200
Subject: Problems with properties
In-Reply-To: <1129305188.746872.69980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
	<1129305188.746872.69980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435394fd$0$12493$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

wittempj at hotmail.com wrote:
> If you change it to this it works. You should provide a get and a set
> function for a property.

The OP did:
->   command=property(getCommand, setNothing)



-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 01:25:25 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:25:25 -0400
Subject: Importing at runtime
References: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86k6g25fsq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Poundall" <david at jotax.com> writes:
> I have several .py files in a directory that I would like to import at
> run time.  Each file contains a state machine that requires to be run
> in its own thread.

Imports happen at run time. Beware starting threads in the code run at
import time in each module, though - there are some nasty bugs lurking
there. Instead, start the threads in functions invoked from the main
routine.

> The first problem I have is how can I import the code in all of the .py
> files without knowing the file names in advance.
>
> Can this be done ??

Yes. Use the __import__ builtin.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 19:28:44 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:28:44 +1000
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<diu657$i0g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.23.28.43.774241@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:28:55 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:

> Experiments
> (not just in computer science) are quite
> frequently botched. How do you discover
> botched experiments?

Normally by comparing them to the results of other experiments, and being
unable to reconcile the results. You may have heard the term "the
experiment was/was not replicable".

How do you discover whether your theory is correct? By comparing it to
itself, or by comparing it to experiment?

Of course you need some theoretical background in order to design your
experiment in the first place, otherwise you have no idea what you are
even looking for. And it is easy to mis-design an experiment, as your
student did, so that it is actually measuring X when you think it is
measuring Y. If you are about to argue against a naive view of the
scientific method where the scientist generates data in a mental vacuum,
don't bother, I understand that. 

But fundamentally, calculated Big O values of algorithms on their own are
of virtually zero use in choosing between actual functions. If I tell you
that algorithm X is O(f(N)), what have I told you about it?

Have I told if it is unacceptably slow for some particular data size? No.

Have I told you how much work it will take to implement it? No.

Have I told you how fast my implementation is? No.

Have I told you that it is faster than some other algorithm Y? No.

The only thing I have told you is that in some rough and ready fashion, if
I increase the size of my data N, the amount of work done will increase
very approximately like f(N).

This disconnect between what Big O *actually* means and how you are
recommending we use it makes REAL PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE, and not in a good
way.

Here is a real problem I had to solve some time ago. Without using
regular expressions, I needed to find the position of a target
string in a larger string, but there were multiple targets. I
needed to find the first one.

I ended up using something like:

(untested, and from memory)

def findmany(s, *targets):
    minoffset = (len(s)+1, "")
    for t in targets:
        p = s.find(t)
        if p != -1 and p < minoffset[0]:
            minoffset = (p, t)
    return minoffset[0]

You would look at that, realise that s.find() is O(N) or even O(N**2) -- I
forget which -- and dismiss this as Shlemiel the Painter's algorithm which
is O(N**2) or worse.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000319.html

And you would be right in your theory -- but wrong in your conclusion.
Because then you would do what I did, which is spend hours or days writing
a "more efficient" O(N) searching function in pure Python, which ended up
being 100 times slower searching for a SINGLE target string than my
Shlemiel algorithm was searching for twenty targets. The speed benefit I
got from pushing the character matching from Python to C was so immense
that I couldn't beat it no matter how "efficient" the algorithm was.

If I had bothered to actually profile my original code, I would have
discovered that for any data I cared about, it worked not just acceptably
fast, but blindingly fast. Why would I care that if I had a terrabyte of
data to search for a million targets, it would scale badly? I was
searching text strings of less than a megabyte, for five or six targets.
The Big O analysis I did was completely, 100% correct, and completely,
100% useless. Not just useless in that it didn't help me, but it actually
hindered me, leading me to waste a day's work needlessly looking for a
"better algorithm".



-- 
Steven.



From rdsteph at mac.com  Wed Oct 26 10:53:22 2005
From: rdsteph at mac.com (rdsteph at mac.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 07:53:22 -0700
Subject: suggestions between these two books
In-Reply-To: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <1130338402.117278.258080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Both of these books are great. Youc an't go wrong with either one.

The Beginning Python has an itroduction to the language and then also
some projects. Learning Python doens't have projects but is a great
introduction to the language.

Ron
John Salerno wrote:
> Hi all. I'm fairly new to programming and I thought I'd like to try
> Python. I'm trying to decide between these two books:
>
> Learning Python (O'Reilly)
> Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional (APress)
>
> and I was hoping you might have some suggestions. LP seems to be a good
> intro, but the other was published only a month ago and covers 2.4. So
> one question would be, is 2.2 different enough from 2.4 to warrant
> getting the newer book for that reason?
>
> I might end up getting both eventually, but to start with I'm not sure
> which to choose.
> 
> Thanks!



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Oct 22 23:17:00 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:17:00 -0700
Subject: path
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2427.1130036696.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1d987df30510190521o4c68b249j2f9c721e0167f89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2427.1130036696.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FbGdnZXU2ZoxncbeRVn-2g@speakeasy.net>

Shi Mu wrote:

> what is the differenc ebetween index and find in the module of string?
> for both "find" and "index", I got the position of the letter.

 >>> import string
 >>> help(string.find)
Help on function find in module string:

find(s, *args)
     find(s, sub [,start [,end]]) -> in

     Return the lowest index in s where substring sub is found,
     such that sub is contained within s[start,end].  Optional
     arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.

     Return -1 on failure.

 >>> help(string.index)
Help on function index in module string:

index(s, *args)
     index(s, sub [,start [,end]]) -> int

     Like find but raises ValueError when the substring is not found.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   I can't remember to forget you.
   -- Leonard Shelby


From http  Mon Oct  3 17:53:10 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 14:53:10 -0700
Subject: Exception raising, and performance implications.
References: <1128375280.034852.119910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xslvi1d4p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"leo" <leomendoza at gmail.com> writes:
> I come from a java background, where Exceptions are a big Avoid Me, but
> are the performance implications the same in Python? 

Well, you could measure it experimentally pretty easily, but anyway,
Python exceptions are much less expensive than Java exceptions.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Oct 23 03:31:27 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 00:31:27 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
Message-ID: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

This post comes from a boring morning, if you are busy ignore this.
This post is only for relaxed people.

I've found this page, "Syntax Across Languages", it contains many
errors and omissions, but it's interesting.
http://merd.sourceforge.net/pixel/language-study/syntax-across-languages.html

Compared to the other languages Python comes out rather well, in quick
scan only few things look better in other languages (usually all/most
things are possible in all languages, so it's often just a matter of
brevity, elegance, etc):

- Nestable Pascal-like comments (useful): (* ... *)

- Information about the current line and file as Ruby:
__LINE__ __FILE__
Instead of the python version:
inspect.stack()[0][2] inspect.stack()[0][1]

- ~== for approximate FP equality

- comparison returns 4 values (i.e. inferior, equal, superior or not
comparable), as in Pliant:
"compare"

- identity function: "identity" as in Common Lisp (probably of little
use in Python).

- Exception retrying: after catching an exception, tell the snippet to
be re-run
"retry" as in Ruby

- object cloning: obj.copy()  obj.deepcopy()

- accessing parent method:
super as in Ruby, instead as in Python:
super(Class, self).meth(args)

- recursive "flatten" as in Ruby (useful)

Probably there are some errors of mine too, there are many things I
don't know aboyt Python yet.

Bye,
bearophile



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  3 17:30:14 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:30:14 +0100
Subject: question about smtplib
In-Reply-To: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128366567.887891.267520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhs7t1$3lf$1@sea.gmane.org>

nephish at xit.net wrote:
> Hey there,
> 
> i am using the smtplib module in python 2.3
> 
> my question is, this works:
> 
> server = smtplib.SMTP(localhost)
> 
> then server.sendmail(to address, from address, message)
> 
> 
> what i want to know is, how does the connection work?
> 
> when i do server.sendmail, does it connect then ? or did it connect
> when
> i made the object ?
> 
> the reason i need to know is i need to send several emails out at once
> and would be best to only connect once, i think.
> 
> i know that i can call server.close(), i just dont know when it was
> opened.
> thanks
> 
If you provide the host name the server is connected immediately. You 
can use that connection to send several emails, terminating the 
connection when you call the object's quit() method.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From chad.hughes at pnl.gov  Wed Oct  5 14:13:27 2005
From: chad.hughes at pnl.gov (Hughes, Chad O)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:13:27 -0700
Subject: Class methods
Message-ID: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>

Is there any way to create a class method?  I can create a class
variable like this:

class Foo:
  classVariable = None
  def __init__(self, classVariable):
    Foo.classVariable = classVariable 

A = Foo('a')
B = Foo('b')

Print 'The class variable for A is "%s" and the class variable for B is
"%s"'%(a.classVariable,b.classVariable)

When you run this, you see the following:

The class variable for A is "b" and the class variable for B is "b"

This is what I expect.  However, I wand to write a function that can be
called on a class directly.  Lets say the name of the function is bar.
This function needs to be callable without an instance.  The class will
be maintaining a queue, as a class variable, that all instances of that
class will use to place data in.  When bar is called - perhaps by
Foo.bar() - bar will operate on the all of the data provided by its
instances.

Any ideas?  
 
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From jari.aalto at cante.net  Sat Oct 15 05:59:24 2005
From: jari.aalto at cante.net (Jari Aalto)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:59:24 +0300
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list of files)
Message-ID: <oe5rummb.fsf@blue.sea.net>


[Keep CC, thank you]

Please suggest comments how can I make this script to work 
from bash. Also how can I skip better the [0] argument from
command line without hte extra variable i?

    #!/bin/bash

    function compile ()
    {
        python -c '
        import os, sys, py_compile;
        i = 0;
        for arg in sys.argv:
            file  = os.path.basename(arg);
            dir   = os.path.dirname(arg);
            i += 1;
            if i > 1  and os.path.exists(dir):
                os.chdir(dir);
                print "compiling %s\n" % (file);
                py_compile.compile(file);
        '  $*
    }

    compile $(find path/to -type f -name "*.py")

    # End of example

The error message reads:

      File "<string>", line 2
        import os, sys, py_compile;
        ^
    SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Jari



From percivall at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 09:16:54 2005
From: percivall at gmail.com (Simon Percivall)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:16:54 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128691014.275838.84750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Why would it be a bug? You've made it so that every instance of OBJ is
equal to every other instance of OBJ. The behaviour is as expected.



From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Mon Oct  3 13:21:40 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:21:40 +0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <dhrn3h$c6u$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com> <R1Y%e.618$2F2.11645
	3@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com> <4340
	84	3b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4b fa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <Xn
	s96E4	5EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac .be>
	<Xn	s96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42 .vub.ac.be>
	<20051003203035.486348a9.jk@ospaz.ru> <dhrn3h$c6u$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20051003212140.0d3ba3f0.jk@ospaz.ru>

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:43:35 +0100
Steve Holden wrote:

> Hmm. Presumably introspection via getattr() is way too dangerous, then? 

Sure, it is dangerous. Not a showstopper, though.

I mean, the absolute address access in the C is too dangerous, yes, but it
doesn't make declarations in C any less useful.

-- 
jk


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 31 09:13:55 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno at modulix)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:13:55 +0100
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <436626a5$0$18770$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Alex Hunsley wrote:
> bruno at modulix wrote:
> 
>> Alex Hunsley wrote:
>>
(snip)
>>>
>>> method 1:
>>>
>>> _X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
>>>      know that this data should be private.
>>>
>>>
>>> method 2:
>>>
>>> __X - (double underscore) - mangles the name (in a predictable way).
>>>      Avoids name pollution.
>>>
>>>
>>> How often does either tend to get used? Personally, I'd be a little
>>> worried about using method 1, because namespace clashes could happen. Is
>>> this overly paranoid?
>>
>> Probably.
>>
>> Note that prefixing names with a single underscore have a 'protected'
>> semantic - which means that such names (well, the objects that are bound
>> to...) can be overriden/extends by child classes.
> 
> 
> Ah, my mistake, not merely cosmetic then! Thanks.

Well, to be more exact, the point is not that _names can be overriden,
but that, due to name mangling, the following won't work, or, at least,
not as expected:

class Base(object):
    def __dothis(self):
        print "Base dothis"

    def dothat(self):
        print "Base dothat"

    def run(self):
        self.__dothis()
        self.dothat()

class Child(Base):
    def __dothis(self):
        print "__%s_dothis" % self.__class__.__name__

    def dothat(self):
        print "%s dothat" % self.__class__.__name__

c = Child()
c.run()

(snip)

> Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I should have said is that I don't
> like the idea of a typo in an assignment causing the assigning of the
> wrong thing.
> e.g. imagine a simple value-holding class:
> 
> class Values:
>     pass
> 
> v = Values()
> 
> v.conductoin = 10
> 
> 
> ... I meant to type 'conduction' in the source but spelt it wrong.
> My value won't be there when elsewhere I refer to the correct attribute:
> "conduction".
> 

This kind of mistakes are usually not too hard to spot and not too hard
to correct. You'd have the same problem with a dict (and your Values
class is not much more than a dotted_syntax dict in disguise). BTW,
Pylint or Pychecker would catch this, and most unittests too.

Now if you have a case where this could really matter (like a user's
script), you can then define a more bondage_and_the_whip class with slots.

My overall experience with programming and Python is that keeping it
stupid simple where you can is usually the best approach. Your
__setattr__as_a_typo_catcher solution looks to me like a case of
arbitrary complexification. Better to go with the language than to fight
against it.

My 2 cents...
-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From http  Wed Oct  5 16:36:26 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 13:36:26 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1517.1128511675.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xek70xhzz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1527.1128516852.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xirwbn1kl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> OK. The Python compiler would check that the name is declared but it
> would not check that it is defined before use? So this would be
> acceptable:
> 
> def foo():
>      local x
>      return x

Come on, you are asking silly questions.  Any reasonable C compiler
would flag something like that and Python (with the flag set) should
do the same.  If you want to ask substantive questions, that's fine,
but stop wasting our time with silly stuff.

> > XML_NAMESPACE would be declared in the xml.dom module and the type
> > info would carry over through the import.
> 
> 1. your type checking system is optional and xml.dom does not use it

If type checking is implemented then the stdlib should be updated to
add declarations for public symbols.  If not, the compiler would flag
the undeclared symbol.  You could always declare it to be of type 'object'.

>      try:
>           unicode
>      except NameError:
>           XML_NAMESPACE<str> = "..."
>      else:
>           XML_NAMESPACE<unicode> = u"..."

This wouldn't be allowed.

> 2. the compiler does not have access to the names in other modules anyway

You're being silly again.  The compiler would examine the other module
when it processes the import statement, just like it does now.

> How would you find the class definition for the Node object at
> compile-time? 

By processing the xml.dom module when it's imported.

> And by "slots" do you mean the existing Python slots concept or
> something new?

Probably something new, if the existing concept is incompatible in some way.

> So only pre-defined slotted attributes would be accessable (if the
> object uses slots). So the following would not work:
> 
> foo = Foo() # slots defined
> foo.my_attribute = 'bar'
> print foo.my_attribute

Yes, correct, many people already think the existing __slots__
variable is intended for precisely that purpose and try to use it that
way.  Note you can get the same effect with a suitable __setattr__
method that's activated after __init__ returns, so all we're
discussing is a way to make the equivalent more convenient.


From joeyjwc at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 05:52:33 2005
From: joeyjwc at gmail.com (Joey C.)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 02:52:33 -0700
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
Message-ID: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,
I'm designing a small "briefcase" program that will allow me to quickly
upload, download, and delete files in a briefcase.  The only real
things that I have left to do are to design a method for checking if
the file exists, preventing it from overwriting files from other
directories, and setting a user-configurable maximum limit on the
file's size.  The former two, I can handle by myself with no problem.
However, the I'm having a little trouble with.

thefile = params["upfile.file"]
if os.path.getsize(thefile) <= conf["upmax"]:
    print "File Size Okay."     #Add Functions Later...
else:
    print "File Too Large."     #Here, too.

CGItb reported the following error:
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, instance found
      args = ('coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, instance
found',)

This seems like an incredibly simple problem, but I just can't seem to
wrap my mind around it.  Thank you for your help.



From joe at invalid.address  Sat Oct 15 19:11:51 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 18:11:51 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> > 
> > "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
> > news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
> > 
> >> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
> >> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
> >> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
> > 
> >     It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
> >     applications that work in any browser on any OS threaten
> >     to make it irrelevent what OS you're running.
> 
> And it's even easier to understand that your statement is nonsense.
> 
> It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the Linux 
> kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same results. Yet people 
> seem to prefer one distribution over one other.

He was talking about the browser war, and gave a pretty good reason
why it was important. So you respond by pointing out that people
choose a linux distribution for personal (non-technical,
non-marketing) reasons. I think I missed the connection.

> > MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important
> > to be running on one of their OSes.
> 
> Maybe *they* do have a point :-).

Which is?

Joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 14:52:57 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:52:57 +1000
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.2137.1129475887.509.python-list@python.org>
	<diu3di$gd9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.18.52.56.797555@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:42:11 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:

> Pauli's prediction of
> the existence of the neutrino is another. It took
> experimentalists a great deal of time and patience
> (about 20 years, I am told) until they could finally
> muster something amounting to "experimental proof"
> of Pauli's conjecture.

Pauli's conjecture was the result of experimental evidence that was
completely inexplicable according to the theory of the day: energy and
spin was disappearing from certain nuclear reactions. This was an
experimental result that needed to be explained, and Pauli's solution was
to invent an invisible particle that carried that energy and spin away.

(When I put it like that, it sounds stupid, but in fact it was an elegant
and powerful answer to the problem.)

The neutrino wasn't something that Pauli invented from theoretical first
principles. It came out of hard experimental results.

Physics of the last half century is littered with the half-forgotten
corpses of theoretical particles that never eventuated: gravitinos,
photinos, tachyons, rishons, flavons, hypercolor pre-quarks, axions,
squarks, shadow matter, white holes, and so on ad nauseum.

Neutrinos and quarks are exceptional in that experimental predictions of
their existence were correct, and I maintain that is because (unlike all
of the above) they were postulated to explain solid experimental results,
not just to satisfy some theoretical itch.

So yet again, your triumph of theory is actually a victory for experiment.


-- 
Steven.



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Oct 25 08:39:05 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:39:05 +0200
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e276a$0$5925$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

beza1e1 wrote:
> let me try.
> 
> 1) ''.join(lots_of_pieces)
> 
> 2) This doesn't even work, if something is removed, the list is too
> short. So:
> [x for x in somelist if not isbad(x)]
> well, list comprehension is Python 2.4 

2.2.x IIRC

> and 2.3 is the standard in many
> OSes, so it is possibly not the most portable solution

filter(isbad, somelist)

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 30 02:55:06 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:55:06 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net>
	<3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net><864q70evci.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<3si036Fofks2U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <dk1u8s$8tt$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Watson wrote:

> This is Cyngwin on Windows XP.

using cygwin to analyze performance characteristics of portable API:s
is a really lousy idea.

here are corresponding figures from a real operating system:

using a 16 MB file:

    $ time python2.4 scanmap.py
    real    0m0.080s
    user    0m0.070s
    sys     0m0.010s

    $ time python2.4 scanpaul.py
    real    0m0.458s
    user    0m0.450s
    sys     0m0.010s

using a 256 MB file (50% of available memory):

    $ time python2.4 scanmap.py
    real    0m0.913s
    user    0m0.810s
    sys     0m0.100s

    $ time python2.4 scanpaul.py
    real    0m7.149s
    user    0m6.950s
    sys     0m0.200s

using a 1024 MB file (200% of available memory):

    $ time python2.4 scanpaul.py
    real    0m34.274s
    user    0m28.030s
    sys     0m1.350s

    $ time python2.4 scanmap.py
    real    0m20.221s
    user    0m3.120s
    sys     0m1.520s

(Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz, 512 MB RAM, relatively slow ATA
disks, relatively recent Linux, best result of multiple mixed runs shown.
scanmap performance would probably improve if Python supported the
"madvise" API, but I don't have time to test that today...)

</F>





From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 17 12:08:03 2005
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 17)
Message-ID: <dj0hjn$13e$1@lairds.us>

QOTW: "If you don't have the time to be paranoid, try taking the time to
straighten out identity theft." -- K. G. Schneider

"The best way to make classes on the fly is generally to call the
metaclass with suitable parameters (just like, the best way to make
instances of any type is generally to call that type)." -- Alex Martelli


    What code is good to read?  The Standard Library.  The Indexed
    Packages.  The Cheese Shop.  Bit Torrent.  Much else--that is,
    far more than any one person can digest:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/da095d94c77fe2c7/

    Windows demands a developer rely on poorly-documented tricks
    in order to be productive.  What *are* those tricks?  IPython,
    autoit, ...:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3c6f3201a61d41f0/

    Most Python programmers live happily without thought of what
    codecs do for them.  If you're among the few for whom charmap
    performance is an issue, though, you'll be thankful to Tony
    Nelson for this Fastcharmap contribution:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/481fda74e4c69dc/

    Do you want to iterate over the same iterable multiple times?
    There's help (itertool's tee(), for example) for your sort:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/77def05340a81dec/

    Jeff Epler and Peter Otten explain the very first step--often
    the most puzzling one--in working with other-than-English texts:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5b9e46bbc66e19f8/
	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ee3feda62cfe42cd/


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
    absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
    much of the universe of Pybloggers.
	http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
        http://www.planetpython.org/
        http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
    tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
    Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
    list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/ (requires subscription)
  http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=python-url+group:comp.lang.python*&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python
There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Fri Oct 28 05:56:40 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:56:40 +0200
Subject: Spambayes modifications with web services
In-Reply-To: <1130486425.402338.123720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130486425.402338.123720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djssko$jk$4@sadr.dfn.de>

benmorganpowell at gmail.com wrote:
> In the last few months many personal website owners (such as myself)
> have found that spammers have been using their domain names to
> masquerade as valid users to send spam, normally in the form of:
<snip>
> So, as a web programmer and someone who specialises in getting good
> results on Google, I realised that I could simply post every spammer
> website on a Google optimized page, which if searched for on Google
> would return something like:
> 
> "WARNING: DO NOT BUY FROM THIS WEBSITE. THE SPAMMER IS A RUSSIAN MAFIA
> CROOK WHO WILL STEAL YOUR MONEY."
<snip>

So basically a DoS attack could now be simply performed by crafting a 
spam message and adding the url to your target and then sending it out 
to as many users you can think of ? (DoS not in the typical form, but 
the effect would be just as real, deny them of legitimate customers)

Nice plan sherlock.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From durumdara at mailpont.hu  Thu Oct  6 03:33:28 2005
From: durumdara at mailpont.hu (durumdara at mailpont.hu)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:33:28 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Copy files to Linux server through ssh tunnel
Message-ID: <43277.195.228.229.142.1128584008.squirrel@195.228.229.142>

Hi !

I have some backup files on a server farm.
I want to store these local backup files on a backup file server for
"safety's snake".

These files are compressed zip files with 12 character length password.
But my system admin asked me, how can I improve the safety of the copy
operation, and the storing (now I use Samba share to store these files. I
map the SMB share on the client, copy these files, and unmap SMB).

Then I thinking to ssh protocol to improve protection.

The backup script is a py script. I see that Winscp can copy files through
ssh tunnel. Can I do it too ?
How ? How to I do it in pythonic way ?

Please help me with some examples or urls or other infos !

Thanks * 1000:
dd







----------------------------------------------
1 Gbyte Ingyenes E-Mail T?rhely a MailPont-t?l
http://www.mailpont.hu/



From samfrancke at hccnet.nl  Sun Oct  2 14:08:13 2005
From: samfrancke at hccnet.nl (Sam Francke)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 18:08:13 GMT
Subject: forum
References: <1128272422.987128.295820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <xn0e80vtc15uq6001@textnews.hccnet.nl>

csheppard91 at gmail.com wrote at 2-10-2005 19:00:23:

>Forum commuication is easier, and I've just started a new forum and
>would like to  invite all of you to sign up and post there.

I don't agree with you, I like news-commuication. It's more free than
forum use.

-- 
with kind regards / met vriendelijke groeten
Sam Francke


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 31 06:33:44 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 09:33:44 -0200
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87zmopnco7.fsf@linux.site>

Alex Hunsley <lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> writes:

> Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I should have said is that I don't like the
> idea of a typo in an assignment causing the assigning of the wrong thing.
> e.g. imagine a simple value-holding class:
> 
> class Values:
> 	pass
> 
> v = Values()
> 
> v.conductoin = 10
> 
> 
> ... I meant to type 'conduction' in the source but spelt it wrong.
> My value won't be there when elsewhere I refer to the correct attribute:
> "conduction".

Recently there was a big thread where that was raised again (yep, you're not
the first, nor the second, nor the third...).  You should write unittests, use
tools like pychecker, pylint, etc. 

-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 19 23:23:48 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:23:48 -0400
Subject: Having trouble deleting objects from a list...
References: <1129770984.225558.284260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2283.1129772912.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <867jc8x457.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Jason Stitt <jason at pengale.com> writes:
> On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:16 PM, KraftDiner wrote:
> 'for obj in self.objList' will keep right on iterating through the
> list even if you don't increment i.

And if you modify self.objList while you're iterating over it, the
results are undefined.

> A direct adaptation of your code that should work is:
>
> i = 0
> while i < len(self.objList):
>      if self.objList[i].mouseHit:
>          self.objList.pop(i)
>          flag = True
>      else:
>          i += 1

You probably want "del self.objList[i]" instead of
"self.objList.pop(i)". That saves a method lookup and the return of a
value you're just going to throw away.

> Or, shorter and a bit more Pythonic, but not in-place:
>
> newObjList = [obj for obj in self.objList if not obj.mouseHit]
> flag = (len(newObjList) != len(self.objList))
> self.objList = newObjList
>
> I don't know how the performance of the two would compare. The second
> involves creating a new list, but Python is supposed to optimize the
> heck out of list comprehension, and removing items from a list in
> place isn't free, either.

Deleting an element from an arbitrary point in a CPython list of
length n is O(n). So deleting m items from an n-element list is
O(n*m).  Building the new list will be O(n) no matter how many
elements you delete. Unless space is really tight, you probably want
to build a new list.

If you do have to do the delete in place, you'll improve things by
scanning the list from the end towards the beginnings. That makes the
worst-case behavior go from O(n^2) to O(n), because you no longer have
to move any elements after you delete one.

i = len(self.objList) - 1
while i >= 0:
   if self.objList[i].mouseHit:
      del self.objList[i]
      flag = True
   i -= 1

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From martin.witte at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:19:00 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:19:00 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128694740.418262.95470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Your __cmp__ method will always return 0, so all objects will be equal
when you add the method, as Simon and Steve pointed out. The result is
all objects will pass the test of being a member of excluded.
If you do not add a __cmp__ method objects will be compared on identy -
call the id() function to see the identity of an object. An alternative
would be Steve's proposal to compare on the id attribute instead of the
allocated attribute



From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Sun Oct 23 05:23:11 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:23:11 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
 
>> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
>> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
>> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
>> property, only they call it "property tax".
 
>    I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to 
> live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me 
> know.

Why would you say that - Mike Meyer made a point to which you have
obviously no answer. Or do you deny that his comments on this matter
of property are true?

Axel



From dwelch91 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 18:31:21 2005
From: dwelch91 at gmail.com (dwelch91 at gmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 15:31:21 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1128292281.333539.61560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The easiest way to avoid this problem (besides watching for NameError
exceptions) is to use an editor that has automatic name completion.
Eric3 is a good example. So, even though in theory it could be an
issue, I rarely run into this in practice. 

-Don



From michael+USENET at www.heiming.de  Tue Oct 18 14:30:06 2005
From: michael+USENET at www.heiming.de (Michael Heiming)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:30:06 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
	<8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com>
	<azGVDpHpvOIa092yn@visi.com> <c8ke23-9it.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <eirf23-to.ln1@news.heiming.de>

In comp.os.linux.misc Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es>:
> In comp.os.linux.misc Richard Steiner <rsteiner at visi.com> wrote:
>> John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> spake unto us, saying:
>>>Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:

>>>> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
>>>> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?
>>>
>>>Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.

>> MS-DOS 3.3 was the most popular DOS release back in 1987/1988.  I don't
>> recall there ever being a 3.4 release, though.

> We were talking sunOS. At least I was!

Sure, but someone mentioned doze, so people can jump onto the
bandwagon. ;-)

Honestly, even in colm it gets difficult to find a thread not
mentioning doze in one or another way. Linux desktop market share
seems to raise, slow but continuously. Unimportant if someone
likes it or not, it just happens.

-- 
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry at urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 8: static buildup


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Mon Oct 31 09:58:47 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 14:58:47 GMT
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndmcc43.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 29 Oct 2005 17:25:58 -0700, qwweeeit at yahoo.it <qwweeeit at yahoo.it> wrote:
...
> Michel wrote:
...
> > Linux can run perfectly happily without any form of windowing
> > environment.
>
> I know, but nowadays almost any relevant application has a GUI.

Side note: lots of people would disagree with that. For example, from my
perspective, almost all relevant applications /lack/ a GUI. (And some that
has one would be better off without it.)

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From sina828 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 07:35:25 2005
From: sina828 at gmail.com (sina sodagar)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 04:35:25 -0700
Subject: New Website
Message-ID: <1129808125.400053.22870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi
This website can help you to find any links about computer you want:
http://lxlinks.ati-net.net/
Enjoy



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct  6 14:52:21 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:52:21 +0200
Subject: IDLE won't run on WinXP
In-Reply-To: <JaWdneTcIo6H79jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
References: <1128624437.567189.241140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<JaWdneTcIo6H79jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <JaWdnefcIo7n79jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> striker wrote:
> 
>> I just downloaded and installed Python 2.4.2 on a Windows XP machine.
>> Everything I have tried so far has worked except for IDLE.  Is there
<snip>
> Just a thought though, during the installation of Python on one machine 
> it mentioned that a dll was missing from my machine, try uninstalling it 
<snip>

Try this page:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/

it mentions MFC71.DLL for Python 2.4.2 that is likely to not be installed.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From timothy at open-networks.net  Wed Oct  5 19:54:05 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:54:05 +1000
Subject: catching all tracebacks
Message-ID: <4344679D.9040902@open-networks.net>

iw ant to use a singel try except statment with my main app loop in the 
middle and catch all tracebacks and email them to myself as a bug 
report. however it seems a little more tricky then i thought

try:
    Main.Main()
except Exception, err_o:
    print err_o.__class__.__name__, '//', err_o, '//', err_o.args

that was suggested to me however it doesn't catch the errors i made in 
the program, it just spits out a traceback.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 20 05:21:46 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:21:46 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96F5560E865D8duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndlen60.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96F569418A51Cduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 2005-10-20, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>> The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
>>> indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
>>> equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.
>>
>> If that is the case then you implement __eq__ and __ne__ to return 
>> True/False and make cmp throw an exception. I don't see any need to
>> extend the cmp protocol.
> 
> That is not sufficient. There are domains where an order exists, but
> not a total order. So for some couples of elements it is possible to
> say one is less than the other, but not for all such couples.
> 
> Your solution wouldn't allow for such a case.
> 

I don't see why not. If an ordering exists then __cmp__ returns a result 
otherwise it throws an exception. So long as you define __eq__ and __ne__, 
__cmp__ is never called when checking for equality.


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 06:47:21 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 03:47:21 -0700
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129373241.881149.245380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Use re.split, as this is the fastest and cleanest way.
However, iff you have to split a lot of strings, the best is:

import re
delimiters = re.compile('_| ')

def split(x):
  return delimiters.split(x)

>>> split('this_NP is_VL funny_JJ')
['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor http://pythonide.stani.be



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 00:33:08 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 21:33:08 -0700
Subject: Can module access global from __main__?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1908.1129044116.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <digf7s$j3c$1@sea.gmane.org><digh6l$r0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<digiul$14c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1908.1129044116.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129091588.810070.165280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Neal Becker wrote:
> >
> > Still curious about the answer.  If I know that I am imported from __main__,
> > then I can do access X as sys.modules[__main__].X.  In general, I don't
> > know how to determine who is importing me.
> >
> I don't think you can without huge amounts of introspection - it's even
> worse than the "what's the name of this object" question that seems to
> come up regularly.

import sys

frame = sys._getframe()
caller = frame.f_back
print 'Called from', caller.f_code.co_filename, caller.f_lineno
# for more info, look into the traceback module

> A module can be imported from multiple modules, and
> you only get to execute code on the first import.
> Even then (on the first import) I am not sure how you could introspect
> to find the answer you want.

You can install your own __import__() hook to catch all imports.

Just because you can do something, it doesn't follow that you should do
it, especially in this case.  Unless you really, really need these
tricks, they shouldn't be used.

n



From bob at redivi.com  Tue Oct  4 20:16:48 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:16:48 -0700
Subject: [Distutils] py2exe has a new maintainer
In-Reply-To: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F3815F9@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>
References: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F3815F9@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>
Message-ID: <6F3D2CAB-DA1A-4E8B-B86A-96B7F9E6998E@redivi.com>


On Oct 4, 2005, at 5:01 PM, Jimmy Retzlaff wrote:

> After I feel comfortable with things, I hope to work with other  
> projects
> in the Python packaging community (e.g., cx_Freeze,
> PyInstaller/McMillan, py2app, setuptools, etc.) to see if we can't  
> find
> synergies that will make all of them better. I recognize that  
> different
> packagers are better for different audiences because of licensing,
> platform, Python versions, and module support among other things.
> Working together on the common parts (identifying dependencies,
> customized handling of modules with unique needs, etc.) should make  
> all
> of the packagers serve their niches better.

py2app has code for the common parts that are relatively abstracted  
out of py2app itself and should be platform agnostic, but I just  
don't have the time (or need) to work on py2app right now let alone  
make contributions to the general python packaging infrastructure...   
However, it's there and the license is compatible with just about  
anything, so feel free to make use it of it or ask questions about it.

On the other hand, setuptools/eggs solves a lot of these problems  
(given appropriate metadata), so I'd target integration with that  
first and then bring in the "legacy" support that py2app does pretty  
well.  Requiring appropriate metadata from the packages themselves  
has a much brighter future than maintaining an external "quirks"  
infrastructure in (each) application packager.

-bob



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Oct 28 13:48:34 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:48:34 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Frame Size
In-Reply-To: <1130521112.659385.148750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130521112.659385.148750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510281048.34790.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>



On Friday 28 October 2005 10:38, Tuvas wrote:
> I'm tyring to set the size of the window that is opened when you open a
> Tkinter window, without much sucess. I have tried changing the heigth
> and width atributes, but it doesn't do anything. I tried using the
> grid_propagate command that I saw to use, but made the window even
> smaller... What can I do? Thanks!

Here is a very simple way:

from Tkinter import *
app = Tk()
app.geometry("%dx%d%+d%+d" % (600, 400, 0, 0))
f = Frame(app)
f.pack()
app.mainloop()


-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Fri Oct  7 07:08:27 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:08:27 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com><4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net><1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews><slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org><7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><1128676408.129888.297840@g	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43465736$0$11160$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Fredrik Lundh a ?crit :
> "Christophe" wrote:
> 
> 
>>It's more of a "Nearly too late" type checking I would say. Not that I
>>complain but it would be great if there were also some automatic type
>>checking to catch a few errors as soon as possible.
> 
> 
> use assert as the soonest possible point.  implementing "type gates" is
> trivial, if you think you need them.

Still, it would be great if there were also some automatic type checking 
  in place. Using assert is hardly automatic and non intrusive.

I mean, why not ? Why does the compiler let me do that when you know 
perfectly that that code is incorrect :
def f():
      return "a" + 5

Of course the system can't be perfect but it doesn't need to be. It 
doesn't need to constrain us in any way but if it can detect some errors 
early, then it is worth it.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Oct 29 16:50:00 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 13:50:00 -0700
Subject: how to discard a line if it's not a number?
In-Reply-To: <1130617767.659563.158050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130617767.659563.158050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130619000.642939.149720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

This is a possible solution, using exceptions:

fileName = "data"
out = file(fileName + "_filt.txt", "w")
for line in file(fileName + ".txt"):
    try:
        nline = float(line)
    except ValueError:
        pass
    else:
        out.write(str(nline) + "\n")
out.close()

If the file is small enough this can be a little faster:

fileName = "data"
filtered = []
data = file(fileName + ".txt").readlines()
for line in data:
    try:
        filtered.append( str(float(line)) )
    except ValueError:
        pass
out = open(fileName + "_filt.txt", "w")
out.write( "\n".join(filtered) )
out.close()

Bye,
bearophile



From timothy at open-networks.net  Sun Oct  9 19:55:52 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:55:52 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <rTh2f.12332$U51.276@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>	<mailman.1807.1128900330.509.python-list@python.org>
	<rTh2f.12332$U51.276@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <4349AE08.1000306@open-networks.net>

Neil Hodgson wrote:

>Timothy Smith:
>
>  
>
>>FYI i have located where the problem was. in the first if statement
>>there was an unbalanced ). now since when does python not give a
>>descriptive error for that?
>>    
>>
>
>I see this with the arrow pointing at the extra ')':
>
> >pythonw -u "xx.py"
>   File "xx.py", line 3
>     if 
>Decimal(self.parent.TillDetails[self.TillSelection.GetStringSelection()]['ChangeTinBalance'])) 
>== Decimal('0'):
> 
>                              ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>    Neil
>  
>
it is definately a bug in 2.3 when using the decimal module. i can 
reproduce it.

from decimal import Decimal
a = Decimal('0'

and when you attempt to run it you will get "error"

of course i do understand that decimal wasn't part of 2.3, but atleast 
now when if anyone gets that terse message they know where to start 
looking :)




From jzgoda at o2.usun.pl  Wed Oct  5 15:00:23 2005
From: jzgoda at o2.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:00:23 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PyXMPP build for Python 2.3 for Win32
Message-ID: <di17t8$rqa$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Unofficial binary installer for Pytnon 2.3 of latest SVN snapshot of
PyXMPP is available for download at
http://pywarriors.haa.pl/varia.php#pyxmpp_win32 (the page is in Polish,
but clicking in HTML link is language-independent).

It was build with MinGW against libxml2-2.6.20.

To get more information on PyXMPP go to official PyXMPP homepage,
located at http://pyxmpp.jabberstudio.org/.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 13 04:12:49 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:12:49 +0200
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
	<3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <dil4t3$95o$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Ron Garret wrote:
>> Is this a bug or a feature?
>> 
>> class mydict(dict):
>>    def __setitem__(self, key, val):
>>      print 'foo'
>>      dict.__setitem__(self, key, val)
>> 
>> 
>>>>>d=mydict()
>>>>>d[1]=2
>> 
>> foo
>> 
>>>>>d.setdefault(2,3)
> 
> 
> Feature. If it wouldn't bypass __setitem__, how exactly would you make a
> default-item? Using __setitem__ implies a key. So if setdefault
> was implemented as
> 
> def setdefault(self, v):
>      self["SOME_DEFAULT_KEY_NAME"] = v
> 
> and later on one writes e.g. a HTML-page with a form input field named
> "SOME_DEFAULT_KEY_NAME" that gets stored in a dict - it would overwrite
> the default value.
> 
> So it has to bypass __setitem__, as otherwise it can't distinguish
> between "real" and the default value - the latter one is not allowed to
> have a key that is in any imaginable way used by the user.

The implementation is certainly a design decision. setdefault() could be
implemented in terms of __set/getitem__() as

def setdefault(self, key, value=None):
    try:
        return self[key]
    except KeyError:
        self[key] = value
        return self[key]

I guess it's not done for performance reasons. 

Peter



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Oct  1 05:37:57 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 02:37:57 -0700
Subject: Google Not Universal Panacea [was: Re: Where to find python 
	c-sources]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1313.1128158688.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no>	<Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>	<dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>	<mailman.1261.1128086363.509.python-list@python.org>	<gLWdncdOH91dOKDeRVn-2Q@speakeasy.net>
	<mailman.1313.1128158688.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7bCdnWIsnb9rxaPenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

Steve Holden wrote:

> I don't think "The source tarball on python.org" could claim to be 
> telling him "exactly where it was" given that my copy of the web site 
> has 341 MB of stuff in it.

He doesn't have to search through the whole thing, there's a link on the 
front page, so this 341 MB figure is meaningless.

I certainly understand laziness.  I don't approve of it, but I can 
understand it.  But I really don't understand _defending_ laziness.

His grasp of the English language was just fine.  He could have gotten 
the answer to his question by using Google with less time and effort 
than it took him to post to Usenet, wait for a response, and then act on 
it.  Even if he were totally lazy and selfish, he could have gotten the 
answer more easily by using Google for ten seconds.  Language was 
obviously not a barrier here, since the very words he used in asking the 
question could have been typed into a search engine to get exactly the 
answer he wanted.

There are plenty of questions that are complex enough, or require 
knowing the right terminology which might not be obvious to an 
interested amateur, such that a search engine won't be the most 
practical way to do research.  This was _certainly_ not one of those cases.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   No mistaking / Just reflecting what you radiate
   -- Anggun


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 26 00:03:40 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:03:40 +0100
Subject: Setting Class Attributes
In-Reply-To: <1130298306.236356.131170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<435e91b1$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>	<1130281061.552882.134540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<435edfbe.968502823@news.oz.net>
	<1130298306.236356.131170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djmv6s$tlh$1@sea.gmane.org>

the.theorist wrote:
> So that it'll be easier to remember the next time I find myself in the
> same situation on a different task, I'll extend the discussion
> somewhat.
> 
> Coming from C, I had expected that I'd get a new empty dict every time
> the __init__ function ran. Guido (or some other benevolent) had decided
> to implement things a little bit differently in Python. I understand
> that most everything is a pointer in Python. (which gives us cool stuff
> like recursive data structures) So I was wondering, they could have
> made the behavior C-like, but chose not to. The decision to bind
> everything in the function to the same default args must be a
> reflection of the Python Ideology. Philosophically, why was it done
> this way, and how does it fit in with Python's design as a language.
> 
I couldn't claim to be channelling the developers, but I suspect that 
the decision was pragmatic.

Consider what would have to be done in the case of a method prototype 
such as

class myClass(object):
     def __init__(arg1, arg2=default):
         print "Arg2 is:", arg2

Remember as well that the "def" statement is executable: when executed 
it binds the function name to the compiled function body in the current 
namespace.

Suppose the "default" name had gone out of scope by the time the 
instances are created: what value would you have the ionterpreter bind 
to the argument in that case?

> (hopefully, reasons will help me remeber why things are the way they
> are, so I don't forget in the future)
> -----------------
> I've only been using Python for a few weeks. (Chose it over Perl,
> because Python syntax is cleaner). I really like Python (over C), as it
> makes coding and debugging much faster and easier.
> 
Yup, it's a great languae, and it seems to be increasing in popularity 
quite rapidly.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From deets at web.de  Thu Oct 20 10:01:02 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 07:01:02 -0700
Subject: New Website
In-Reply-To: <1129808125.400053.22870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129808125.400053.22870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129816862.171858.158270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I get a 404 - as Linux and MacOs-User, I'm pretty ignorant of
Viruses/Malware. So, I'm not sure but I think it's possible that this
site is spreading such malicious content.



From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct  9 09:36:26 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:36:26 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> > Read my essay.
> > http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
> >
> > I talk around those problems.
> 
> Actually, you present a design that forces a solution that makes them
> do what you want down their throats, never mind what they want, or
> what they've been doing. It shows an amazing ignorance about the
> internet and how people behave on it. Like most antispam proposals, it
> won't actually stop spam, just force spammers to concentrate on
> different channels. You seem to have randomly broken quoting for
> people who download mail and read it offline, and for any medium
> that's unreliable or doesn't reliably deliver messages "in order" -
> which includes mail and news.  Virus writers will love the ability to
> change peoples address books remotely.

Since - in Roedy's essay - messages are digitally signed, authority
to advise about any email address updates would presumably be confined
to those people with access to the sender's private key.

Even /without/ any form of authentication, a standard change-of-address 
message - which is understood by mail readers - is a fine and sensible 
idea.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From marco at morca.de  Fri Oct 21 15:37:39 2005
From: marco at morca.de (marco)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:37:39 +0200
Subject: python problems with dos lineendings in python-scripts
Message-ID: <200510212137.41565.marco@morca.de>

hi folks,

i can not run any python scripts with dos lineendings under cygwin's python.
if i run such a scripts i get stupid syntax error messages from python.

what can i do to run these scripts without changing the lineending of these scripts.

regards marco
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From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 07:54:28 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:54:28 GMT
Subject: [OT] Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <435cbbd6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <43593468$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<435c9906$0$14034$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <435cbbd6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <UX37f.26412$U51.12657@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Scott David Daniels:

> Sorry, I was being too cute by half.  If Simula is the fore father
> (4 away) then Smalltalk is half as far (2) away.  Hence the "toofather."
> "Toofather" by analogy with the homophones "fore" and "four" we use the
> homophones "two" and "too".

    We could smear the homophones further and say OCaml is the "nextfather".

    Neil


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 14:45:32 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 20:45:32 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128786909.040667.57830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di944b$htu$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Boddie wrote:

>> There are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.
>>
>> For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602
>
> Just the observation that there are 166 comments to that article would
> suggest that the methodology employed was somewhat debatable. (I don't
> need to read them all - it is OSNews, after all.)
>
> As for the "real performance" of Python, what do we learn from these
> benchmarks which "...didn't test string manipulation, graphics, object
> creation and management (for object oriented languages), complex data
> structures, network access, database access, or any of the countless
> other things that go on in any non-trivial program"? That Python
> doesn't perform well executing loops involving mathematical operations?

fwiw, if you leave out the environments that compile to native machine code,
CPython is the fastest runtime in this floating-point benchmark:

    http://www.fourmilab.ch/fbench/fbench.html

(I recently translated some satellite navigation code from a Python prototype
to C, and was a bit surprised to find that I only got a 7x speedup...)

</F> 





From python_it at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  6 03:52:31 2005
From: python_it at hotmail.com (Python_it)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 00:52:31 -0700
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1588.1128583570.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>
	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<IqGdnd3VLLXXqdneRVn-qw@telcove.net>
	<mailman.1588.1128583570.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128585151.008583.236420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the many replies!
The problem was that is use '%s', i have to use %s and then my problem
is solved.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 11:31:15 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 17:31:15 +0200
Subject: Distributing programs
References: <dhotob$fe0$1@sea.gmane.org> <dhou83$gql$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dhoug4$hcj$1@sea.gmane.org>


> the license is here:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/Copyright.html
>
>    "Python is absolutely free, even for commercial use (including
>     resale). There is no GNU-like "copyleft" restriction."

except that the current license is (no longer?) linked from that page.

the current license is here:

    http://www.python.org/2.4.2/license.html

more words, but the summary remains the same:

    "Python is absolutely free, even for commercial use (including
    resale). There is no GNU-like "copyleft" restriction."

</F>





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 21 02:41:13 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:41:13 +0200
Subject: a simple question about the third index in slice
References: <1129876178.607754.120750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dja2ia$fu2$1@sea.gmane.org>

someone wrote:

> I cannot quite understand when the third index is a negative
> number,like this:
> a = '0123456789'
> a[1:10:2] I know the index step is 2, so it will collect items from
> offset 1, 3, 5, 7, 9
> but when a negative number come,like:
> a[1::-1] answer '10', and a[1:10:-1] only answer '',
> what is the different between the two expression, where does the offset
> begin and what is the end offset?

the default values for start and stop depend on the sign of the step.

you can use the slice type directly to see how this works:

>>> slice(None,None,1).indices(10)
(0, 10, 1)
>>> slice(None,None,-1).indices(10)
(9, -1, -1)

>>> slice(1,None,-1).indices(10)
(1, -1, -1)
>>> slice(1,10,-1).indices(10)
(1, 10, -1)

also see footnote 5 on this page:

    http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq.html

</F>





From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Tue Oct 11 05:22:39 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:22:39 +0200
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndkmo1c.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <dig094$ntj$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano enlightened us with:
> 
>>he says that every time you try to append to a list that is already
>>full, Python doubles the size of the list. This wastes no more than
<snip>
> If, on the other hand, you double the memory every time you run out,
> you have to copy much less data, and in the end it turns out you need
> roughly N steps to add N items to the list. That's a lot better, isn't
> it?

This begs a different question along the same lines.

If I have a generator or other iterable producing a vast number of 
items, and use it like this:

s = [k for k in iterable]

if I know beforehand how many items iterable would possibly yield, would 
a construct like this be faster and "use" less memory?

s = [0] * len(iterable)
for i in xrange(len(iterable)):
     s[i] = iterable.next()

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From eduardo.padoan at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 18:11:39 2005
From: eduardo.padoan at gmail.com (eduardo.padoan at gmail.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 15:11:39 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2423.1130018433.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1130018433.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130019099.772664.103360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hum... I thnk you dont get the ideia: I'm not talking abou High Order
Functions.
What ho call "High Order Methods is some like "connecting" some
'generic' methods created to do things like this:
    claimants.where.retired?.do.receive_benefit 50
The 2nd and 3rd links that in the first post is the most relevant to
undestand the concept. Read this too:
http://www.metaobject.com/papers/Higher_Order_Messaging_OOPSLA_2005.pdf



From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 15 18:50:20 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:50:20 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...

> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about browser
> wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion dollar a year
> market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?

    It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based applications that 
work in any browser on any OS threaten to make it irrelevent what OS you're 
running. MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important to be 
running on one of their OSes.

    DS




From jnoller at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 12:48:26 2005
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:48:26 -0400
Subject: Weighted "random" selection from list of lists
Message-ID: <4222a8490510080948y6977396fneca9481358b1d3bc@mail.gmail.com>

Hello -

I'm probably missing something here, but I have a problem where I am
populating a list of lists like this:

list1 = [ 'a', 'b', 'c' ]
list2 = [ 'dog', 'cat', 'panda' ]
list3 = [ 'blue', 'red', 'green' ]

main_list = [ list1, list2, list3 ]

Once main_list is populated, I want to build a sequence from items
within the lists, "randomly" with a defined percentage of the sequence
coming for the various lists. For example, if I want a 6 item
sequence, I might want:

60% from list 1 (main_list[0])
30% from list 2 (main_list[1])
10% from list 3 (main_list[2])

I know how to pull a random sequence (using random()) from the lists,
but I'm not sure how to pick it with the desired percentages.

Any help is appreciated, thanks

-jesse


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 17:15:00 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:15:00 -0700
Subject: extracting numbers from a file, excluding fixed words
References: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h5766s.1uiq1ke11zp4pdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

dawenliu <dawenliu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, I have a file with this content:
> xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 0
> (many more 1's and 0's to follow)
> yyyyy yyyyyy yyy yyyyyy yyyyy yyy
> 
> The x's and y's are FIXED and known words which I will ignore, such as
> "This is the start of the file" and "This is the end of the file".  The
> digits 1 and 0 have UNKNOWN length.  I want to extract the digits and
> store them in a file.  Any suggestions will be appreciated.

[[warning, untested code...]]

infile = open('infile.txt')
oufile = open('oufile.txt', 'w')
for line in infile:
    if line.strip().isdigit(): oufile.write(line)
oufile.close()
infile.close()


Alex


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Oct 15 01:09:44 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:09:44 -0500
Subject: PyGame & Web hosts
In-Reply-To: <1129349057.116550.219300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129349057.116550.219300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510150009.44645.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 14 October 2005 11:04 pm, boyanpn wrote:
> I wonder if my web host suports python (with pygame), if I download
> game from www.pygame.org and upload it to my site, could users access
> to it with browser and play game ?

In the main, no.

PyGame is a multimedia library, using SDL to access the graphics capabilities
on a machine. It is fundamentally, a client (or standalone) application, and
does not (AFAIK) have anything to do with web services.

In order to be able to play a game "on your site" "using a browser" would
require either:

1) A very simple game that can use an HTML interface and software on your
server meant to deal with that.

2) Games that are actually implemented as Java or Javascript or some other
"applet" technology that is downloaded into their browser.  "Some other"
pretty much only applies if your users are using a plugin or have a very
nonstandard browser.  However, DO be aware that there is a version of Python
called Jython (http://www.jython.org) which would allow you to package a
Python program for use as an applet (running on Java).  The bad news is,
it won't be anything like the PyGame environment (you'd be using Java libraries,
like Swing, etc).

Or, probably more useful to you, you could just provide games that people
can download. This is what actually happens with an applet, of course, so
there's no actual saving of bandwidth by "running it on your server". What
is saved is the hassle of installing the software once it's downloaded.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From http  Tue Oct  4 16:35:30 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 13:35:30 -0700
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xbr25xbot.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> > Hmm...perhaps he is trying to do a transfer thing like many chat
> > programs do. Instead of sending large files across a server, you
> > "Direct Connect" and send the file directly. :shrugs:
> 
> So how does that require binding the client end of a TCP connection?

In the nomenclature of some of these applications, that kind of transfer
is called a client to client connection.  Both ends are called clients.


From OurLab at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 20:21:37 2005
From: OurLab at gmail.com (Alex)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 17:21:37 -0800
Subject: Pickling and unpickling inherited attributes
In-Reply-To: <1130719584.505020.118800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130714629.049424.237250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130719584.505020.118800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130721697.839253.88830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks so much! It makes perfect sense and I am sure it will work now.



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Fri Oct 14 22:06:35 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:06:35 -0700
Subject: Help with creating a dict from list and range
In-Reply-To: <diojcm$vth$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<diojcm$vth$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510141906.35636.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Could be even simpler since enumerate creates tuples anyway:

dct = dict(x for x in enumerate(description))

James

On Friday 14 October 2005 08:37, Steve Holden wrote:
>  >>> dct = dict((x[1], x[0]) for x in enumerate(description))
>  >>> dct
>
> {'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 29 18:46:26 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:46:26 -0400
Subject: Recursive generators and backtracking search
References: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86fyqkc56l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Talin" <viridia at gmail.com> writes:
> As an alternative, I'd like to present the following implementation. If
> you compare this one with the one in lib/test/test_generator.py you
> will agree (I hope) that by using recursive generators to implement
> backtracking, the resulting code is a little more straightforward and
> intuitive:

I'd propose one change to that...
>     def qsearch( qarray = () ):
>         for q in range( 0, bsize ):        # Try each position
>             if not threaten( qarray, q ):  # If not threatened
>                 pos = qarray + ( q, );     # Append to the pos array
>
>                 if len( pos ) >= bsize:    # Are we done?
>                     yield pos              # Yield the answer
>                 else:            # recursively call new generator
>                     for pos in qsearch( pos ):
>                         yield pos

Um - do you really want to reuse the variable pos here? Yeah, it
works, but this strikes me as very confusing. I'm not sure that it
might not be implementation dependent.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Thu Oct 27 06:30:21 2005
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:30:21 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djjn2f$n2f$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <m3irvma9w3.fsf@invalid.address>
	<djjn2f$n2f$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <3sbohtFmqs4eU1@news.dfncis.de>

David Schwartz schrieb:
>     When you are not in the majority, you are going to face inconveniences. 
> You'd face the same inconvenience if you wanted to buy a new car without 
> seats. Most people wants cars with seats, so that's the way they're 
> packaged.
> 

What a stupid comparison! A computer without Windows is a computer with 
another operating system. It isn't even comparable to a car with 
specially expensive non standard seats.

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 31 08:44:36 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:44:36 +1100
Subject: mixin helper class for unknown attribute access?
References: <Mvm9f.25313$m%6.18781@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.31.12.40.23.812468@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ono9f.25939$m%6.21522@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.31.13.44.35.552748@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:47:16 +0000, Alex Hunsley wrote:

> Sorry, as I noted in another reply not long ago, I was having a 'braino' 
> and not saying what I actually meant!
> What I was talking about was the accidental _setting_ of the wrong 
> attribute.
> And the mixin class I'm looking for is one that could be told what were 
> valid attributes for the class, 

Who decides what are valid attributes for a class? The class writer, or
the class user who may want to use it in ways the writer never imagined?


> and would then catch the situation where 
> you mis-spelt an attribute name when setting an attrib.

If all you care about is preventing developers from adding any new
attributes at run time, you can do something like this:

# warning: untested
class Example:
    def __init__(self, data):
        self.__dict__['data'] = data
    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        if self.__dict__.has_key(name):
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            raise AttributeError

except that the developers will then simply bypass your code:

p = Example(None)
p.__dict__['surprise'] = 1
p.surprise

Trying to prevent setting new attributes is a pretty heavy-handed act just
to prevent a tiny subset of errors. Many people argue strongly that even
if you could do it, it would be pointless -- or at least, the cost is far
greater than whatever small benefit there is.

But, if you insist, something like this:

# Warning: untested.
class Declare:
    def __init__(self, names):
        """names is a list of attribute names which are allowed.
        Attributes are NOT initialised.
        """
        self.__dict__['__ALLOWED'] = names
    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        if name in self.__ALLOWED:
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            raise AttributeError("No such attribute.")

If you want to initialise your attributes at the same time you declare
them, use:

# Warning: untested.
class DeclareInit:
    def __init__(self, names):
        """names is a dictionary of attribute names/values which are
        allowed.
        """
        self.__dict__ = names
    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        if self.__dict__.has_key(name):
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            raise AttributeError("No such attribute.")

Of the two approaches, I would say the second is marginally less of a bad
idea.

-- 
Steven.



From secun at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 11:20:20 2005
From: secun at yahoo.com (Chris)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:20:20 -0400
Subject: HELP! py2exe error - No module named decimal
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc2c961a05f1f8f989688@news2.atlantic.net>

I've just completed a project using the following (Windows XP, python 
2.4.1, wxpython 2.6, and pymssql 0.7.3). The program runs great, but 
after I convert it to an exe (required for this project), it gives me 
the following error when I try to run it.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "EstUpdate.py", line 6, in ?
  File "frmSplash.pyc", line 9, in ?
  File "pymssql.pyc", line 23, in ?
  File "_mssql.pyc", line 9, in ?
  File "_mssql.pyc", line 7, in __load
ImportError: No module named decimal

However, when I look in c:\python24\lib on the machine which ran py2exe, 
I see decimal.py and decimal.pyc.

Can someone please help with this? I'm supposed to start testing the 
program today and I can't seem to move past this first step.

Thanks!!
Chris


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Sun Oct 16 10:01:12 2005
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 07:01:12 -0700
Subject: Some set operators
In-Reply-To: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129469695.530388.245100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi Bearophile,
Nah, you don't want to change 'em. I can remember 'em just fine :-)



From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Sat Oct 29 18:43:10 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 00:43:10 +0200
Subject: Examples of Python code compared to other languages
Message-ID: <20051030004310.7d30b682@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

Hello,

I'm looking (without success so far) for code sources for common
problems in different languages, but especially Python, C, Fortran, Ada
and Matlab.

It would help people coming from other languages to understand the
'python way of thinking'.

Priority is clean code, performance is not an issue here because it
often leads to obscure code.

Ideally code for Python would extensively use the standard library
("don't reinvent the wheel").

I've already checked the following sites, but they were not suited for
what I'm looking for :

These ones are too focused on performance :
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
http://dada.perl.it/shootout/

This one don't include C or Fortran :
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/

This one is ok but rather limited :
http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm

If there is a site which regroup very good ('Pythonic') code examples
which make extensively use of standard library to resolve common
problems, I would be happy to help and try to contribute by giving the
equivalent in C code.

Regards,


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 11:23:30 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:23:30 +0200
Subject: Does python support the expression "a = b | 1"???
In-Reply-To: <di0qq5$21i$2@news.net.uni-c.dk>
References: <di0qq5$21i$2@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <3qi9fjFer6jaU1@uni-berlin.de>

Wenhua Zhao wrote:
> a = b | 1
> 
> a = b if b != nil
> else a =1
> 
> Is there such expression in python?

Soon there will be, but currently: no. What you are after is a ternary 
operator like _?_:_ in C. There have been plenty of discussions about 
these - search this NG. Depending on your usecase, either

if b is not None:
    a = b
else:
    a = 1

or

a = [1,b][b is not None]

or even

a = b or 1

will do the trick.

But PLEASE  read the discussions first, to understand the reasons and 
implications.

Diez


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 11:41:50 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:41:50 +0100
Subject: Yes, this is a python question, and a serious one at that (moving
	to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <dj8bh1$2md$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>	<200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>	<75DF16E6-AC4F-4ABE-A16C-0FAC7A089460@sbcglobal.net>	<mailman.2279.1129760612.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dj8bh1$2md$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <dj8drr$b85$1@sea.gmane.org>

Rocco Moretti wrote:
> James Stroud wrote:
> 
> 
>>I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Windows, the reasons for 
>>such should be explicitly described, and not left to interpretation.
> 
> 
> I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Linux ...
> I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Mac ...
> I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Ruby ...
> I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Firefox ...
> I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Waxed Dental Floss ...
> 
> People should not feel *required* to justify their decisions to c.l.py, 
> especially if they are not trying to evangelize that choice. (FWIW, even 
> from the original post it's very apparent that he's dissuading people 
> from joining him.)
> 
> It is true that giving the reasons for a choice will help responders put 
> some perspective on it, and perhaps prompt a few alternatives, but 
> c.l.py is not your mother, and shouldn't require you to justify the 
> validity of your lifestyle to it.

Man, you mean I can use any dental floss I like?!?!?!?!!?

regards
  Steve

who quite agrees with the sentiments expressed above
(it's an extension of the "consenting adults" philosophy).
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 19 08:58:30 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:58:30 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrndlceph.7sc.rogblake10@moog.netaxs.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlcgnm.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-19, Roger Blake schreef <rogblake10 at iname10.com>:
> In article <slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be>, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> A company figures out something is wrong with one of their new models.
>> They have two options. They can repair the problem or they can leave
>> it as is and brace the laswsuits that will likely follow. An analysis
>> shows that the first option is likely to cost more than the second.
>
> What you are desribing is the Ford Pinto. (As you may recall, Ford
> determined that it would cost less to settle the lawsuits of charbroiled
> customers and their families than to fix the poor engineering of the
> gas tank on that car.)
>
>> As far as I understand you, the company should ship the faulty model.
>
> That is what Ford did for years with the Pinto.

And as far as I understand David Schwartz that was the right decision
of Ford.

> They failed to take into account that beyond the short-term profit
> numbers, there is an effect on the company's reputation and profitibility
> when shipping faulty products in a competitive marketplace. Today's
> U.S. automakers are still suffering from poor reputations they earned
> decades ago.

But that is aftersight. If is always possible that you overlooked
something in your analisis or that some information is unavailable.
So you are forced to take a decision based on the information then
available. Whether or not the problem involves ethics in trading
doesn't change that.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From dwahler at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 14:37:39 2005
From: dwahler at gmail.com (David  Wahler)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 11:37:39 -0700
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

g.franzkowiak wrote:
> I start a process in my application with popen2.popen3('MyOtherProcess').
> That's ok, but what can I do if the other process is running ?
> Can I fetch some information and start with that ?
>
> gerd

It's not clear what you're asking for. Could you please clarify?

-- David



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 00:30:12 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:30:12 -0700
Subject: pickling class instances with __slots__
References: <1130558044.085887.104400@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h55viw.1gfl3p6fkx2h4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Alex <OurLab at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> I have a series of new classes with child-parent relationship and each
> has unique __slots__. They don't have __dict__ . I need to be able to
> pickle and unpickle them. As far as I could understand, I need to
> provide __getstate__  and  __setstate__ methods for each class. Is

Right.

> there a universally accepted code for each method? If so, what is it?
> If there is no standard, what works?

Lots of things work, the simplest is something like:

>>> class wehaveslots(object):
...   __slots__ = 'a', 'b', 'c'
...   def __getstate__(self): return self.a, self.b, self.c
...   def __setstate__(self, tup): self.a, self.b, self.c = tup

(plus presumably other methods, but those don't matter for pickle).


Alex



From timothy at open-networks.net  Sun Oct  9 19:18:52 2005
From: timothy at open-networks.net (Timothy Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:18:52 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>

i have reproduced the error in this code block

#save values in edit
		self.FinaliseTill.SaveEditControlValue()
		if 
Decimal(self.parent.TillDetails[self.TillSelection.GetStringSelection()]['ChangeTinBalance'])) 
== Decimal('0'):
			#box must be checked before continuing
			if self.PlacedInSafe.GetValue() != 1:
				self.parent.Popup("You must place the till draw back in the 
safe","Till draw")
			else:
				#finalise the till draw
				if 	Decimal(self.TillFloat.GetLabel().split('$')[1]) != Decimal('0'):
					Prompt = wx.MessageDialog(self,"""The correct amount has not been 
returned from the till draw float to the main float!
					If you proceed please contact your manager""","Change tin doesn't 
balance!",wx.YES_NO)
					if Prompt.ShowModal() == wx.ID_YES:
						self.Submit()
		else:
			self.parent.Popup('You have an outstanding change tin balance on this 
till','Change tin')


i have NO idea what in there could be making it have such a strange 
error. it just says "error" when you try run it. there nothing terribly 
strange being done.


From http  Mon Oct  3 17:45:43 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 14:45:43 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xzmprueyg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkujx04.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xwtku1dh4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > If you have a java class instance with a private member that's (say) a
> > network socket to a special port, access to the port is controlled
> > entirely by that class.
> 
> Are you sure? My understanding was that Java's introspection mechanism
> could be used to access private variables.

Right, I should have been more specific, if I understand correctly,
there are some JVM settings that turn that on and off (I'm not any
kind of expert on this).  For sandbox applets, it's turned off, for
example.  This came up in a huge discussion thread on sci.crypt a few
months ago.  Apparently the default is for it to be turned on, to the
surprise and disappointment of some:

  http://groups.google.com/group/sci.crypt/msg/23edaf95e9978a8d

> A couple of other things to think about:
> Are you sure you want to use the C++ model for privilege separation?

I'm not sure what you mean by the C++ model.  If you mean the Java
model, as I keep saying, applet sandbox security relies on it, so it
may not be perfect but it's not THAT bad.  Using it routinely in
normal applications would be a big improvement over what we do now.
High-security applications (financial, military, etc.) would still
need special measures.

> C++'s design doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me. 

Me neither, "C++ is to C as lung cancer is to lung".  

> Finally, another hole to fix/convention to follow to make this work
> properly in Python. This one is particularly pernicious, as it allows
> code that doesn't reference your class at all to violate the private
> variables. Anyone can dynamically add methods to an instance, the
> class it belongs to, or to a superclass of that class. 

Yes, Python isn't even type-safe any more:

    class A(object): pass
    class B(object): pass
    a = A()
    print type(a)
    a.__class__ = B
    print type(a)    # oops

IMHO that "feature" you describe is quite inessential in Python.  The
correct way to override or extend the operations on a class is to
subclass it.  I can't think of a single place where I've seen Python
code legitimately go changing operations by jamming stuff into the
class object.  I'd consider the stdlib's socket.py to be illegitimate
and it cost me a couple of hours of debugging one night:

 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/c9849013e37c995b

and even that is only messing with specific instances, not classes.
Make sure to have a barf bag handy if you look at the socket.py code.
I really should open a sf bug about it.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 31 07:40:24 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:40:24 +1100
Subject: mixin helper class for unknown attribute access?
References: <Mvm9f.25313$m%6.18781@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.31.12.40.23.812468@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:39:40 +0000, Alex Hunsley wrote:

> I know that I can catch access to unknown attributes with code something 
> like the following:
> 
> class example:
>       def __getattr__(self, name):
>           if name == 'age':
>               return __age
>           else:
>               raise AttributeError
> 
> 
> but is there an existing mixin helper class in Python (or one someone 
> has written) already that will assist with this? (Just not wanting to 
> reinvent the wheel....)

Too late.

py> class Example:
...     age = 0
...
py> Example.age
0
py> Example.aeg
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: class Example has no attribute 'aeg'

It works for instances too:

py> Example().aeg
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: Example instance has no attribute 'aeg'


Your __getattr__ code is completely unnecessary.



-- 
Steven.



From samschul at pacbell.net  Tue Oct 11 16:08:47 2005
From: samschul at pacbell.net (sam)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 13:08:47 -0700
Subject: Wanted: Python module allowing direct access to raw sectors
	ofharddrives (MFT, boot sector, etc.) in MS Windows
In-Reply-To: <3r1n2sFha01oU1@individual.net>
References: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r09niFh717sU1@individual.net>
	<1128986917.703980.35230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<3r1n2sFha01oU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <1129061327.082256.309570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The main use of my SCSI routines,is that by using the SCSIPASSTHROUGH
layer under Windows gives the user absolute control of the storage
device. For example copying data from and IDE drive to a SCSI drive
becomes transparent using SCSI commands. I.e Logical block 0 remains
consistant. I had an PHD clam that using fopen(),and fread(),along with
fwrite()  with an offset of 0 would always get you sector zero,head
zero on a drive. I was able to prove that this was not the case. When
using the SCSIPASSTHROUGH layer LBA 0 will always return the first user
accessable sector. Using Python open() behaves the same as the C
functions,thus you would have the same problem.



From ralf at tecont.de  Wed Oct 19 14:27:47 2005
From: ralf at tecont.de (Ralf Muschall)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:27:47 +0200
Subject: popen4
In-Reply-To: <xkvhpsq32eam.fsf@grajagop-lnx.cisco.com>
References: <Fnz4f.39703$133.25538@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<wzslv0ftoj.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<JI55f.42727$133.9526@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<xkvhpsq32eam.fsf@grajagop-lnx.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <3qfi23-ju8.ln1@prcm.tecont.de>

Ganesan Rajagopal wrote:

> Try pexpect instead. http://pexpect.sourceforce.net/
                                               ^

That's a content-free ad site.  You probably mean sourceforGe.

Ralf


From ed at leafe.com  Sat Oct  8 11:45:26 2005
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:45:26 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Dabo 0.4.2 released!
Message-ID: <089784A4-6B88-4ED0-811E-92DDB3A1E4DB@leafe.com>

     We are pleased to announce the 0.4.2 release of Dabo, the 3-tier  
application framework for Python.

     The primary focus of our work for this release has been a  
tightening up of the various properties of many of the UI controls to  
create a more consistent interface. Since these controls were  
developed one at a time as needed, they had some subtle but  
significant differences in the way they worked. This release  
addresses a lot of those concerns.

     We've also added auto-binding of methods to events. For example,  
if you want to have your code react to MouseEnter event, all you need  
to do is add a method named onMouseEnter(), and Dabo will bind it to  
that event. Thanks to the PythonCard folks for this idea!

     Work on the Report Writer continues to proceed; it now supports  
groups and report variables. These improvements have been integrated  
it into the wizard-generated apps, too.

     Needless to say, there have also been a few bug fixes. A list of  
all the changes follows my sig. You can grab the latest, as always,  
from http://dabodev.com/download.

-- Ed Leafe
-- http://leafe.com
-- http://dabodev.com


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dabo-0.4.2 (2005-10-07) (Revision 1418):
Added PrimaryBizobj property to dForm, which can replace calls to  
getPrimaryBizobj().

Added Accepted property to dOkCancelDialog, which gets set  
automatically if the
user pressed "OK".

Added AutoSQL, UserSQL, CurrentSQL, LastSQL properties to dCursor and  
dBizobj.
When time to requery, the SQL will come from UserSQL if set, or  
AutoSQL will
be regenerated.

Fixed a bug that kept changes to a new record from getting committed.

Added DefaultValues property to bizobj.

Added ListSelection and ListDeselection events to dListControl. Added  
properties
MultipleSelect, HitIndex, LastSelectedIndex, HeaderVisible,  
HorizontalRules,
and VerticalRules. Changed the behavior of both dListControl and  
dListBox so that merely selecting an item doesn't raise the Hit  
event; instead, it raises a ListSelection event, and if another item  
had been previously selected, it raises a ListDeselection event. Hit  
is only raised from double-clicking on an item, or by pressing Enter.

Added new property to dTextBox: StrictDateEntry. Changed the code for
interpreting dates entered by the user to allow for some less explicit
formats (YYYYMMDD, YYMMDD, and MMDD). If StrictDateEntry is False (the
default), these other formats will be used when interpreting dates
entered by the user.

Added field-level validation to the framework.

Improved support for decimal.Decimal, both at the database level and in
dTextBox.

Added new auto event binding, which automatically binds events based  
on any
defined callback functions. For example, if you have a method  
onMouseEnter()
defined, the dEvents.MouseEnter will automatically be bound to that  
method.
Inspired by PythonCard.

Added RegID property to forms, that allows for object registration
with the form. Not all objects require RegIDs, but if they have one,
they must be unique among all objects in a form. A reference to that
object can then be gotten from any other object by calling
'self.Form.getObjectByRegID(<regid>)'.

Linked RegID to the auto event binding, so that if a form has a method
of onHit_cmdOK(), and has a button with a RegID of 'cmdOK', the
cmdOk's Hit will get bound to the form's callback, automatically.

Improved dGrid and dColumn. Many properties added, and you are now in  
much
finer control over the display of grid column headers, grid cell  
attributes,
grid cell editors and renderers, and the grid itself.

Began work of allowing case-insensitive property values for  
properties that
take string values, and for properties that take a limited number of  
values
where the first letter is unique, you can set the property by just  
using the
first letter. dTextBox.Alignment = "c" sets the property to "Center",  
for
example.

Modified dBizobj, dCursorMixin, and dBackend so that the user can  
specify
the Unicode Encoding to use. Changed the default encoding from  
latin-1 to
utf-8.

Added feature to optionally draw sizer outlines on any form that uses  
dSizers.
This is currently accessible via an option in the View menu when the  
base
menu bar is in use, or you can turn it on/off programatically.

Grids now remember the column that is sorted, and resort when next  
instantiated.

Added support in dReportWriter for report groups and report  
variables, and
dynamic band heights (based on the height of contained objects).  
Added showExpr,
which is an expression that evaluates at runtime and if true, shows  
the object
in the report, and not if false.

Improved the automatic print preview report format in datanav. It now:

     + prints column headers

     + mirrors the font size, column width, cell vertical and horizontal
       alignment, and column height of the grid

     + mirrors the font size, header height, vertical and horizontal
       alignment of the grid headers

     + automatically reorients to landscape if the detail flows  
beyond the width
       of portrait

     + stops printing more columns if doing so would result in  
overflowing the
       right margin

Key bindings are now case-insensitive.

Improved docstrings and API documentation.






From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Sun Oct  9 12:14:32 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:14:32 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Ilb2f.18523$bb3.758915@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:39:27 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
> 
> 
>>Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Roedy Green wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.
>>>
>>>WHat the hell has that got to do with HTML email?
>>
>>The photo doesn't have to be included (as in attached)? with the email?
> 
> 
> I'll repeat the question: what do attachments have to do with HTML emails?

His reply wasn't exactly clear, but I that he means that wen you use HTM
mail, you don't have to attach the photo with the email. You can also
use the HTML to refer to an image somewhere on a webserver.

Doesn't seem such a good idea to me, since the possibility of external
images gives spammers the possibility to track who opens their mails.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From sean at buildingonline.com  Wed Oct 19 14:27:24 2005
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:27:24 -0700
Subject: question about timestamp and MySQLdb
Message-ID: <bew5f.2828$UF4.1651@fed1read02>

I am using MySQLdb to connect to a database and retrieve a timestamp from a 
table.  The problem is I want the timestamp as a long, unformatted and all.

In the table I have a timestamp like this
20051019111617

But, when I retrieve the value and print it I get
 2005-10-19 11:16:17

I want the numeric version, not the converted date.  Any suggestions? 




From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 18:09:45 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:09:45 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<nvh0f.11590$pb5.564339@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <86fyrijlqu.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> writes:
> Is that really the desired behaviour? IMO the least you can do if you're
> searching for help is subscribing to the mailing list on which you're
> looking for help. Me and many others don't like to receive replies
> directly instead of via the mailing list; it's of no use, since we're
> subscribed to the mailing list anyway.

Rather than asking everyone else to modify their behavior for your
convenience, why don't you fix the problem at your end? Check to see
if the list will filter duplicates for you. Check to see if your
mailer will filter duplicates for you. Or grit and bear it. You'll
almost certainly get less unwanted mail from people who send you
duplicates in reply to your messages than they would get from
subscsribing to the list.

In short - starting thinking about the greater good rather than your
own best interest.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 05:33:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:33:54 +0200
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
References: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1130185501.221232.17370@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.2514.1130228547.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130232152.429900.109710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djku63$c2l$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Joey C." wrote:

> I'm afraid on my interpreter, this works.
>
>>>> if os.path.getsize("C:\\Documents and Settings\\Joey\\Desktop\\file.txt") <= 1000:
>>>> print "<= 1000."
>
> <= 1000.
>
> No problems there, as you can see.

I'm not sure if you replied to my post, but what I tried to say is that

    params["upfile"].file

doesn't return a string, it returns a file object.  and os.path.getsize
on something that's not a string gives the TypeError you're seeing.

</F> 





From benji at benjiyork.com  Sat Oct  1 08:56:11 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:56:11 -0400
Subject: list.join()... re.join()...? Do they exist? (newbie questions...)
In-Reply-To: <1128170349.146250.303370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128170349.146250.303370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <433E876B.1040507@benjiyork.com>

googleboy wrote:
> To get it to work I did this:
> 
> 
> List[0] = list0
> List[1] = list1
> List[2] = list2
> List[3] = list3
> cat_list = list0 + '|' + flatblurb + '|' + flatcontents + '|' + flates
> + '\n'
> file.write(concat_list)
> 
> But it seems to me that there is probably something more pythonic than
> having to go about it in such a laborious fashion....

Indeed. :)

cat_list = '|'.join(List)
--
Benji York




From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 22:54:36 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 19:54:36 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130122476.079450.216280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

could someone enlighten me what is the advantage of block over named
function ?

One thing that I can see a difference may be lexical scope ?

vdrab wrote:
> On a (somewhat) related note,
> I've always wondered whether it is possible to emulate ruby blocks
> using a python generator '+ alpha'. In my limited understanding of the
> ruby block, the generator can inject values into a block, I suppose,
> but what is the block itself? can it be a function? a class instance?
> what would it look like? I am sure someone must have played around with
> this. 
> any pointers?
> cheers,
> v.



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 13:52:01 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 10:52:01 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Peter. Sorry for my delay. I wasn't in home the weekend.

> Define what "get" means for your purposes.  It appears that you mean you
> want to catch the exception, but in the thread which launched the other
> thread in the first place.  If that's true, please show where you would
> expect to catch this exception, given that when you start the thread,
> the main thread continues running and might even finish before the other
> thread finishes.

In my above example, I want to catch in ProgramA the raised exception
in ProgramB. Please, look at my example one more time.

Thanks.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 16 06:54:11 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:54:11 +0100
Subject: Help with creating a dict from list and range
In-Reply-To: <1129346319.abc03660b95ff66215dd9905db5e4265@teranews>
References: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com><diojcm$vth$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.2099.1129342011.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129346319.abc03660b95ff66215dd9905db5e4265@teranews>
Message-ID: <ditbgg$97g$1@sea.gmane.org>

George Sakkis wrote:
> "James Stroud" <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:
  >>Could be even simpler since enumerate creates tuples anyway:
>>
>>dct = dict(x for x in enumerate(description))
>>
>>James
>>
>>On Friday 14 October 2005 08:37, Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> >>> dct = dict((x[1], x[0]) for x in enumerate(description))
>>> >>> dct
>>>
>>>{'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}
> 
> 
> Or even simplest :-)
> 
> dct = dict(enumerate(description))
> 
You people should really mark these things as "untested" if you aren't 
going to bother actually producing a result that you can paste into your 
window (or at least checking that your solution really provides the 
answer the OP asked for).

Question: what's the difference between

    dict((name, seq) for seq, name in enumerate(description))

(the improved version of my answer posted by Scott David Daniels) and

    dict(enumerate(description))

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 10:05:48 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:05:48 +0200
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di5vbs$f31$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:

> Sorry Fredrik but I don't understand. Just comment out the assert and
> you have different results depending on whether an unrelated sort
> function is defined.
>
> This seems weird to me !

not if you look at what it prints.

(if it seems weird to you that 0 equals 0, it's time for a break)

</F> 





From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct  9 06:40:21 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:40:21 +0200
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3qsacmFftrn5U1@uni-berlin.de>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I understand that StringIO creates a file-like object in memory.
> 
> Is it possible to invoke another program, using os.system() or
> os.popen(), and use the < redirect operator, so that the other program
> reads my StringIO object as its input?

No. Processes don't share memory - thus you have to either use a temp 
file, or pipes.

> BTW, I have tried using popen2() and passing my data via stdin, but the
> other program (psql) does not react well to this - again, I will give
> more info if necessary.

Better do so :)

Diez


From veritas-bu-admin at mailman.eng.auburn.edu  Tue Oct 25 09:29:02 2005
From: veritas-bu-admin at mailman.eng.auburn.edu (veritas-bu-admin at mailman.eng.auburn.edu)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:29:02 -0500
Subject: Your message to Veritas-bu awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <200510251329.j9PDT2L7018936@mailman.eng.auburn.edu>

Your mail to 'Veritas-bu' with the subject

    MAIL SYSTEM ERROR - RETURNED MAIL

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 31 15:08:24 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:08:24 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:868xwcevke.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>>> Microsoft's behavior consisted of arguments, that is, did not
>>> involve force, the threat of force, fraud, or the threat of
>>> fraud. This is perhaps the most vital distinction that there is.
>> Wrong. Either your definition of force is to narrow, or you're wrong
>> that it's the distinction is even vaguely vital. If I convince
>> everyone who might make food available to you not to do so - for
>> example, by paying them more than their interaction with you is worth
>> to them, I can starve you to death. I'd say I've used force against
>> you - an economic force.
>     Right, you would say that, because you don't see the difference between 
> guns and arguments.

Except I'm willing to allow your definition. All it takes is reading
the next paragraph for you to see that.

Of course, you've dropped the real point, which is your own inabillity
to distinguish between, as you put it, "guns and arguments." You
always act as if every mention of a crime committed by someone other
than microsoft involved guns, even when most of them don't. You have
as yet to offer any explanation for that other than that you're
following MS's orders.

>> This is the kind of force that MS wields
>> illegally. I'm willing to admit this isn't a usual definition of
>> force, and won't argue if you want to say that it isn't force. But in
>> that case, the fact that I didn't use "force" against you is
>> irrelevant to you - you're just as dead.
>     No, it is completely relevant. You are trying to say the means don't 
> matter if the same end is achieved. But if you're going to say that, you 
> might as well say there's no difference between shooting someone and letting 
> them die of natural causes.

Another straw man argument. I'm not trying to say anything of the
sort.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 09:09:33 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 06:09:33 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129122573.198977.245810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

update:
if I use C's free(result), free(a) free(b) instead of PyMem_Free...I
only get one successfuly use/call of doStuff.

i.e.
// this works
doStuff(...)

// python crashes here
doStuff(...)

Java and Swing wrote:
> static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> 	PyObject *finalResult;
>
> 	// get arguments from Python
> 	char *result = 0;
> 	char *in= 0;
>     	char *aString = 0;
> 	char *bString = 0;
> 	MY_NUM *a;
> 	MY_NUM *b;
> 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> 	if (!ok) return 0;
>
> 	// do work to get a and b
> 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
>
> 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
>
> 	// save result in Python string
> 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
>
> 	// free memory
> 	PyMem_Free(result);
> 	PyMem_Free(a);
> 	PyMem_Free(b);
>
> 	// return the result as a Python string
> 	return finalResult;
> }
>
> ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> problem
> so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
> 
> Any ideas?  Thanks!



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Oct 25 16:23:01 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:23:01 -0700
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
In-Reply-To: <Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <200510251323.02025.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Tuesday 25 October 2005 00:31, Duncan Booth wrote:
> P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting

Were it not for Steve Holden's providing me with a link off the list, I would 
have never known to what it is you are referring. I have read some relevant 
literature to find that this is more widely known as "top-posting". I'll go 
with majority rules here, but I would like to say that my lack of 
"netiquette" in this matter comes from practicality and not malice. I have 
read many a letter both in-line quoted and/or top-posted and have never 
really made a distinction between the two. Both styles have been very easy 
for me to follow in the past using my mouse wheel (first added to the mouse 
device circa 1995, when a 486/DX33 was still considered a powerful machine). 
I'm sorry if I can't find a dumb terminal for a "VAX" with which to read my 
email. Perhaps, if i could, I would understand your frustration a little 
better.

The only reason I'm making a point of this is that many people come to python 
from fields other than computer science or hacker-ology. Posting styles will 
vary considerably among these people, so deal with the deviants carefully. 
Their differences in styles, like mine, probably arise from the culture of 
their respective fields. Most, like me, may not even know what the heck you 
are talking about. Also, here is a well written synopsis of the arguments in 
favor of top-posting and they may even be strong enough to legitimize the 
practice:

       http://alpage.ath.cx/toppost/toppost.htm

In light of these arguments, I hereby reserve the right to revert to 
top-posting if the compulsion overwhelms me.

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 16:10:37 2005
From: vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com (vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 13:10:37 -0700
Subject: Looping Problem (Generating files - only the last record
	generates a file)
In-Reply-To: <djni9m$ftb$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djni9m$ftb$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1130357437.862101.77120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Guys - This fixed the issue - thanks to all



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 09:33:33 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:33:33 +0100
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
In-Reply-To: <1128430078.513687.264950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1128427778.421720.205370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1427.1128428762.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128430078.513687.264950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhu0b6$j0a$1@sea.gmane.org>

Amir Michail wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
>>Amir Michail wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Is there an easy way to do this without modifying the configuration of
>>>the cgi server and without running a cgi server on the other machine
>>>where the script will actually run?
>>>
>>>Perhaps someone wrote a simple server that provides the required
>>>environment for the cgi script to run?
>>>
>>>I'm looking for something simple that does not require root access.
>>
>>you could of course use something like
>>
>>    http://docs.python.org/lib/module-CGIHTTPServer.html
>>
>>or some other light-weight web server, but you should probably have in mind
>>that doing things like this without coordinating with your server administrators
>>and security architects *before* you start tinkering can be a excellent way to
>>get fired...
>>
>></F>
> 
> 
> I would like to do this to improve performance by avoiding nfs. (The
> required data is not on the cgi server.)
> 
> The advice I got was to use something like MySQL with a client/server
> architecture.
> 
> However, I thought it would be easier to simply run the core part of
> the script off the cgi server, thereby avoiding nfs for data lookups.
> 
> So I guess the point is that such a solution is more likely to be a
> security risk than MySQL?
> 
> Amir
> 
You are hardly likely to improve performance by substituting a fairly 
high-level application like CGI or MySQL for NFS. But later you suggest 
that security is the issue rather than performance. I'm confused.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve.horsley at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 09:30:39 2005
From: steve.horsley at gmail.com (Steve Horsley)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:30:39 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di8hdm$6ru$1@news.freedom2surf.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Then again, there's room for infinite disagreement about these topics. I 
> mentioned a while ago that I disliked the English on a bumper sticker I 
> liked, which read
> 
> "Some village in Texas is missing their idiot".
> 
> Several people defended this, saying that a village could use the plural 
> possessive "their". I personally found it odd (and essentially 
> non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should 
> be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So
> 
> "Some village in Texas are missing their idiot"
> 
> would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only the idiot 
> alluded to would say), while my preferred choice would be
> 
> "Some village in Texas is missing its idiot".
> 

Strangely, the one that scans most naturally to me is the first 
one. Maybe its because the sentence starts by talking of a 
village in Texas singular point on a map, but the idiot in the 
second half is one of many inhabitants who have noticed his 
absence. Yes, it is mixing singular and plural from a syntactic 
point of view, but not so badly after interepretation into mental 
images.

The one that always makes me grit my teeth is "You have got to, 
don't you?". Well no, I do NOT got to, actually. Shudder!

Steve, Brung up in norf London.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Thu Oct 13 18:38:39 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:38:39 +1000
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
References: <mailman.2019.1129225413.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.13.22.38.38.454866@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:31:13 -0400, Neal Becker wrote:

> I can do this with a generator:
> 
>     def integers():
>         x = 1
>         while (True):
>             yield x
>             x += 1
> 
> for i in integers(): 
> 
> Is there a more elegant/concise way?

Others have given answers involving xrange() and itertools.count(), but I
thought I'd just mention that in my opinion, what you have written is
pretty elegant and concise and best of all, doesn't have the same problems
xrange() and itertools.count() have when then hit maxint. Not everything
needs to be a one-liner or a mysterious blackbox.

You could even modify your function to take start and step arguments:

def integers(start=1, step=1):
    x = start
    while True:
        yield x
        x += step

for odd in integers(step=2):
    print odd

for even in integers(0, 2):
    print even

etc.


-- 
Steven.



From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Mon Oct 31 04:58:03 2005
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (svenn.are at bjerkem.de)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 01:58:03 -0800
Subject: Using graphviz to visualize trace.py output, anybody?
In-Reply-To: <4365487c$0$31846$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <1130710534.618559.40680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4365487c$0$31846$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1130752683.303019.228620@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I was more thinking of converting the output of trace.py to the dot
language in order to get a graphical view of the execution of my
program.



From scapt at unil.ch  Wed Oct 19 04:21:31 2005
From: scapt at unil.ch (=?iso-8859-1?B?U+li?=)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 01:21:31 -0700
Subject: Sequence and/or pattern matching
Message-ID: <1129710091.400262.139440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm relatively new to python and I want to write a piece of code who do
the following work for data mining purpose :

1) I have a list of connexion between some computers. This list has
this format :

Ip A               Date             Ip B
...                ...              ...
192.168.0.1        19.10.2005       192.168.0.2
192.168.0.3        19.10.2005       192.168.0.1
192.168.0.4        19.10.2005       192.168.0.6
...                ...              ...

2) I want to find if there are unknown sequences of connexions in my
data and if these sequences are repeated along the file :

For example :

Computer A connects to Computer B then
Computer B connects to Computer C then
Computer C connects to Computer A

3) Then, the software gives the sequences it has found and how many
times they appear...

I hope this is clear, point 2) is where I have my main problem. Has
someone an idea where to start and if there's already something coded ?

Thanks

S?b



From ahaas at airmail.net  Fri Oct 21 16:32:08 2005
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:32:08 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Twenty-sixth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20051021203208.GE17002@artsapartment.org>

I'm pleased to announce the twenty-sixth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2 or newer. The interface is GTK 2.0
based, and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. Addition of other PythonCAD 
interfaces will depend on the availability of a Python module for that
particular interface and developer interest and action.

The twenty-sixth release includes a few interface enhancements. More
of the menus can be activated from the keyboard, and stretch/move
operations now accept entry box values when performing either task.
A significant amount of work has been applied to the internal
routines used for storing the entities in a drawing, the result of
which required numerous changes throughout the code. The primary
change was adjusting the Quadtree search and storage routines to
handle the case where multiple instances of equivalent entities
are stored. In earlier releases of PythonCAD this scenario would
result in strange errors if it were to occur. As is always the case,
a large number of smaller bug fixes and code enhancements are also
present in this release.

A mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 24 17:08:00 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:08:00 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djglnk$jq8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5y47f.174197$RW.59989@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<8qnpl11s9ie8s2pstqja5k5aeikn6tgtu7@4ax.com>
	<3yb7f.175669$RW.140991@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <djjifg$lal$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


<axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk> wrote in message 
news:3yb7f.175669$RW.140991 at fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Not that I care much since eggs bring on a rather strong reaction
> within me, but his arguments were totally false.

    So you maintain that the United States government owns its economy?

    It might be instructive to google for "non-government economy". Not even 
the Chinese government claims to own its country's economy.

    DS




From http  Tue Oct  4 20:48:44 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 17:48:44 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xxbgj4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128439938.509457.286790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xhdbwkcur.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"El Pitonero" <pitonero at gmail.com> writes:
> If so, you would probably be the type of person that also likes static
> typing, type safety and variable declaration, right?

I certainly want type safety, which Python claims to have.  I'd like
to have variable declaration, at least like "var x".  Perl has that
("use strict") and Perl is often compared to Python, so I don't see
why Python shouldn't offer it.  

I reserve judgement about static typing.  It has good and bad points.
I find Python and Lisp much more pleasant to program in than (say)
Java, but I'm not convinced it's because they are dynamically typed.
It may be mostly because they have better built-in datatypes.  I've
been wanting to try ML or Haskell and see how that goes.  Note that ML
is statically typed but doesn't need declarations (it uses
compile-time type inference).

> You missed the point. I have, for fun, built a GUI application in
> Python, while the program is running. I just kept on adding more and
> more code to it. This, while the Python program is running. I was able
> to change the GUI's look-and-feel, add more buttons, menus, all while
> the programming is running.

Sure, the GUI is a container that can support those operations.  That
has not much to do with whteher the language is dynamic.

> I was able to change the class definition, preserve the previous
> object state variables. 

Unconclusive.  You can even do stuff like that in C under a debugger.

> Sure, Python is not as friendly as Lisp/Scheme for interactive
> programming, but you can still do a lot.

But Lisp supports declarations and compile-time type analysis of the
exact same kind that you want kept away from Python.

> > [Other stuff incomprehensible and snipped].
> Sigh, I gave you the keywords: containment and aggregation.
> 
> Vault encapsulation is one way to do OOP. But by no means it is the
> only way. The whole access level thing (the "private" keyword) is not
> an essential part of OOP. The concept of a "private" namespace is not
> necessary for OOP. 

Not necessary or essential, but useful, and improves your program's
reliability.  It's a tool for protecting complex systems against
certain failures, like using a network firewall on your computer.
Sure, you don't really need the firewall, in the sense that your
applications should be careful about what ports they listen to, but
with enough code running on the machine you can't really be certain
that nothing is broken, so it's standard practice to use a firewall
and shut off any ports not needed by some specific service.  A private
variable is like shutting off a port at the firewall instead of
relying on the user apps to to handle it safely--a completely normal
and sensible procedure in any complex environment.



From joeyjwc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 05:22:32 2005
From: joeyjwc at gmail.com (Joey C.)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 02:22:32 -0700
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2514.1130228547.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130185501.221232.17370@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2514.1130228547.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130232152.429900.109710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm afraid on my interpreter, this works.

>>> if os.path.getsize("C:\\Documents and Settings\\Joey\\Desktop\\file.txt") <= 1000:
>>>	print "<= 1000."

<= 1000.

No problems there, as you can see.



From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 15 13:39:35 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:39:35 GMT
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87oe5xfyng.fsf@qrnik.zagroda> <7xpsqdtwv4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<diek5m$336$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>
	<877jch9wwn.fsf@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <uif2l19eeb6soqclslqup70lpi10red2t2@4ax.com>

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote:

>Abdulaziz Ghuloum <aghuloum at c-s-remove-dashes.indiana.edu> writes:
>
>> Python FAQs contain an entry to the schwartzian transform.
>>
>> http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming.html#i-want-to-do-a-complicated-sort-can-you-do-a-schwartzian-transform-in-python
>
>This entry is obsolete: it should mention the 'key' option of the
>standard sort method.

It should mention it, but not necessarily recommend it.

I haven't run the numbers in Python, but in Perl, the undecorated sort is
so well-optimized that the Schwartzian transform is almost always faster
than passing a custom comparator to the sort function.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From nil at dev.nul  Tue Oct 11 13:08:23 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:08:23 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews><die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Scott David Daniels" <scott.daniels at acm.org> wrote in message
news:434ba977 at nntp0.pdx.net...
> Christian Stapfer wrote:
>> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list at python.org...
>>
>>>Christian Stapfer wrote:
>>>
>>>>"George Sakkis" <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote in message
>>>>news:1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8 at teranews...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Christian Stapfer" <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>><ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>try to use set.
> A reasonable suggestion.  A set must have the trade-offs involved.
> The abstraction itself brings to mind the issues, and the performance
> can, at least in theory, be handled there.  If that is true (that
> the "set" abstraction "sees" the problem), then you can rely on the
> Python implementation of "set" to either now, or eventually, have
> a "good" implementation -- one not too far off efficient.

It is, unfortunately, not infrequently the case
that there are different implementations for
a given data type that are efficient in different
ways - but that there is no one single implementation
that is the most efficient in *all* regards.
Thus the implementer must make a trade-off,
and that trade-off has consequences, performance
wise, that he might want to tell the users of his
module about...

>  The Python gang is good at this stuff;

I'm not denying it. The question is about
telling users upfront what the consequences
are (roughly) of the trade-offs that have
been made so that they can use the modules
that have been provided more effectively.

> a "better" set implementation will win if
> it can show better performance without
> related down-sides.

Is there ever such a thing? I always
thought that, most of the time, there
is no such thing as a free lunch in
this field.

> As to the "either now, or eventually;"  if you _must_ have performance
> now, not in some abstract future, then it behooves you to _test_,
> _test_, _test_!

Well, I might want to test: but *first* I want
to design, preferably in "armchair style"
- at least as regards the basic approach
that I want to take. This "armchair stage"
involves not infrequently the use of rough
complexity measures to exclude the clearly
unusable and chose, instead, an approach
that is very likely efficient enough for
what I need.

>>>> If the documentation stated the order-of-magnitude
>>>>behavior of those basic operations up front, then
>>>>I (and *anyone* else who ever wanted to use those
>>>>operations on large lists / large sets) could do
>>>>a quick order-of-magnitude estimation of how
>>>>a certain program design will behave, performance
>>>>wise.
> And, if the proper documentation is in place, and it
> says "dictionary lookup is O(N)" (and you avoid using
> it for exactly that reason), how surprised will you be
> to discover that the O(N) is only reached if the hash
> values of the keys are all equal?

It's not that difficult to distinguish
*average* case and *worst* case scenarios.
It might even be a good idea to state,
if that can easily be done, what the
*best* case happens do be...

> Oh, maybe you expect "O(N)" to really mean "\Theta(N)".
> Then, if you are a dweeb like me, you will respond that
> "This is not possible, a dictionary of size N must take at
> least 'O(lg N)' to read the key, never mind processing it."
> But, it turns out, that given a bound on the size of a
> process, processing an address is "O(1)", not "O(lg N)".
> Is that too practical for you, or not enough?

I do not expect a developer to expend *inordinate*
amounts of work to figure out the computational
complexity of what he has implemented. But, as I
wrote, he *must* have thought about the matter, and
is thus, by definition, in a rather good position
to provide what he can frequently simply pull from
memory when it comes to documenting the interface
of his module.

>>>>  *Experimenting* is not necessarily as easy to
>>>>do as you seem to believe.
>
>
>>>>How do you, for example, hit upon the worst-case behavior with your test
>>>>data?
> Are you saying the documentation should characterize the
> cases that achieve worst-case behavior?  This is a stiff
> burden indeed, not one I am used to in even the most rigorous
> classes I've seen.

If it happens to be particularly difficult, for a
given implementation (of whatever abstract data type),
then, of course, state this upfront and leave it at
that.

>  If there is such a characterization,
> how burned will you feel if a case is overlooked and that
> case is the one that you sold to your customer?

I am not at all a lawyer type, as you seem to
imagine. I just want to suggest that some
(to the implementer - but not the average user)
*easily* available information about computational
complexity (especially for the most basic data types)
would be a good thing to have. Nothing more.

>  Are you
> willing to provide the same guaranteed performance and
> documentation of performance to your customer that you
> you expect of the Python system?

I'm using python mainly as a very handy language to
write whatever (usually relatively small) utility
programs I happen to require for my main job. I am
not (currently) developing any "serious" programs
that are targeted for sale. (Thought the proper
functioning and adequate efficiency of my personal
utility programs really does matter, but it mainly
matters for *me* - and for my "customers", if I
can be said to have any, which seems doubtful,
it only matters indirectly at best.)
  Even so, I frequently need to have a reasonable
idea of what computational complexity attaches
to certain operations on certain data types. But
I hardly ever have the time to go into an extended
period of first comparing several different approaches
by way of experiment.

> Would you mind if the quality is proportional to
> the price you paid?

There is really not need to indulge in polemics like
this. I am just making a suggestion as to what information
might *help* improve the usability of Python modules.
If making such suggestions regularly only led to negative
exchanges of this sort, there would be very little room
for learning in this community indeed...

>>>You are, of course, either assuming that there's a
>>>single implementation of Python,
>> Of course not!
>>
>>>or that all implementations have the same behaviour.
>> Of course not!
>
>> But it is reasonable, anyway, to ask for information
>> about a specific implementation (that one is *forced*
>> to use).
> You are not _forced_ to use any implementation of Python.

What I wanted to say is *not*, that it appears to be
a terrible burden to my inflated consumer-ego to
have to use something not *absolutely* perfect in
*all* respects, such as Python. What I wanted to
say, here, is just this: *whenever* a Python program
is run, it will run on some specific implementation
of Python. That much should be obvious.

> You are free to implement your own Python system.

Don't be ridiculous.

>>   And if the implementer wants to complain that
>> giving such information would break his wonderful
>> abstraction then I can only answer: It is *reality*
>> that *will* break your abstraction as regards
>> performance! It is, therefore, absolutely *no*
>> use to *pretend* you *can* avoid this form of "breaking
>> the abstraction" by simply avoiding to mention it
>> in the documentation...
> I simply repeat: I have never seen a paper characterizing
> the performance of an algorithm as "O(expr(N))" that described
> in details _all_ cases that reached that limit.

That's what's usually called "throwing out the
baby with the bathwater". It is you (and only
you) here, who is arguing that if perfection is
not attainable (with reasonable effort), nothing
should be done at all. I as am willing to live
with imperfect module inferface specification as
I am willing with imperfect tools more generally.
But that will not stop me from making *suggestions*
for improvement (not arrogant demands, mind you).

>  At most such
> papers describe _one_ such cases.  Nor have I ever seen papers
> describing the performance of an algorithm as "\Theta(expr(N))"
> that characterized the cases that broke the "\Theta" performance.

To repeat: I was not asking for the impossible, not
even asking for the difficult, but simply asking for the
dumping of the (to the implementer, but not the average
user) obvious and reasonably certain information
about computational complexity of what operations
are exposed in the interface of a module.
I have seen *many* books on algorithms that specify
computational complexity measures for the algorithms
described. Any really good library of algorithms will
at least try to reach that standard, too.

> If you provide me the papers, provide me a C compiler with
> equivalent docs on all C expressions, and provide me the funding
> to update the Python docs, I will be happy to do so for a single
> version of Python and a since version of CPython.

I am not asking you, nor anyone else, to do
any amount of boring or otherwise hard work
here.

>  I expect I
> will have an easier time of it than the IronPython people will
> have.
>> I consider it the job of the implementer to know
>> about the trade-offs that he has been making in
>> choosing one particular implementation, and to
>> know what computational complexity therefore
>> attaches to the various operations exposed in
>> its interface.
> Am I to take it you provide this to all of your customers?

I have no customers (lucky me). And I did not
want to pose as the all too frequently encountered
species of the arrogant (and equally ignorant)
customer who expects nothing but perfection
from *others* (but not himself, of course).
I am not at all like that: you are attacking
a figment of your imagination.

>> How reasonable is it to ask me, or anyone else
>> for that matter, to extract, experiment-wise
>> (if it can be done at all with reasonable effort)
>> information that properly belongs to the implementer
>> and really should have been exposed in the
>> documentation in the first place?
> Not at all reasonable.  How reasonable is it to ask
> me to provide you support information for free?

Even providing the most basic information about
the interface of a module, even providing the
mere names of member functions, could be denied
on *that* basis. Thus, this argument fails.
It fails simply because it "proves" too much...

Regards,
Christian
-- 
?In the long run men hit only what they aim at.
 Therefore, though they should fail immediately,
 they had better aim at something high.?
  - Henry David Thoreau: 'Walden'




From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Oct  4 08:46:58 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:46:58 +0200
Subject: Python <=> Excel question
In-Reply-To: <n4lqj1hpnrrr3g1inqv0coubkvmp6bob4d@4ax.com>
References: <n4lqj1hpnrrr3g1inqv0coubkvmp6bob4d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dhttk2$ugl$1@wake.carmen.se>

Gerry Blais wrote:
> Newbie questions:
> 
> Suppose abc.xls has sheets a, b, c.
> 
> How can I find, in Python, the sheet names?
> 
> Given a sheet name, how can I export the sheet as a csv file?
> 
> Finally, how can I, in Python, make a .txt version of a Word document?

I think Google will help you to find plenty of solutions to these
things. It's probably better to try something out and come here if
you're really stuck. You might want to start with this...
http://www.markcarter.me.uk/computing/python/excel.html

In general, it's typically helpful to use the VBA editor in Excel
to discover what the object model looks like, what methods there are
and what parameters they take etc. Then you can use this from Python
via win32com.client instead. You need the win32all extensions for
Python (or something like ctypes, but I never used that). ActivePython
contains win32all by default, but it's simple to install win32all for
a vanilla Python installation. It's reachable through the normal
Python download page (or via Google of course).

I'm sure some experimentation based on these hints can solve your
problem. It takes some time to understand the object model, and
how it maps to the Python interface, but it's not rocket science.

This book is really helpful for understanding how to use Python with
e.g. Word and Excel:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565926218


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct  4 15:08:27 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:08:27 -0400
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <200510041122.25067.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>
Message-ID: <20051004190827.3914.1498135555.divmod.quotient.23977@ohm>

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:22:24 -0500, Michael Ekstrand <mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov> wrote:
>On Tuesday 04 October 2005 11:13, Maksim Kasimov wrote:
>> my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter
>> how long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is
>> nothing in log-files that can points the problem. My question is how
>> it possible to find out where is the problem in the code? Thanks for
>> any help.
>
>What extension modules are you using?
>
>I've never seen "stock" Python (stable release w/ only included modules)
>segfault, but did see a segfault with an extension module I was using
>the other week (lxml IIRC, but I'm not sure).
>

exarkun at boson:~$ python
Python 2.4.2c1 (#2, Sep 24 2005, 00:48:19) 
[GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.setrecursionlimit(1e9)
__main__:1: DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float
>>> (lambda f: f(f))(lambda f: f(f))
Segmentation fault
exarkun at boson:~$ python
Python 2.4.2c1 (#2, Sep 24 2005, 00:48:19) 
[GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class foo(type):
...     def mro(self):
...         return [float]
... 
>>> class bar:
...     __metaclass__ = foo
... 
Segmentation fault
exarkun at boson:~$ python
Python 2.4.2c1 (#2, Sep 24 2005, 00:48:19) 
[GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import dl
>>> dl.open('libc.so.6').call('memcpy', 0, 0, 1024)
Segmentation fault
exarkun at boson:~$ 

Though to be honest, even I consider the 3rd example a bit of a cheat ;)

Jp


From vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi  Thu Oct  6 12:38:18 2005
From: vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi (Veli-Pekka Tätilä)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 19:38:18 +0300
Subject: Accessibility of Docs on Win32: Navigation, Names and PyDoc
Message-ID: <di3ju5$gpf$1@news.oulu.fi>

Hi,
My first post here. I've found some serious accessibility flaws in the 
Python 2.4 docs and wish they could be rectified over time. I'm very new to 
Python and initially contacted docs at python org, However, I haven't gotten 
a reply for a week or so, and figured out I could post here for a larger 
audience, then.

Original message follows:

Hello,
I'm a visually impaired programmer concerned about the accessibility of
Python documentation. I'm still new to Python and mainly using Perl and
Java, largely because of the relatively inaccessible documentation in
Python.

I'd like to report three key issues that I've discovered related to Python
documentation as follows:

1. Navigation in Functions

A single page tends to contain a large number of functions with no way for
screen reader users to find the next function or get a quick overview of
what's on offer. Sighted folk can easily skim through the page but people
relying on screen reader programs or heavy magnification can concentrate
only on a very small area of the screen. This is often referred to as the
straw analogy because it resembles looking at the screen contents through a
thin straw.

Many of the more advanced Windows screen readers such as Freedom
Scientific's Jaws (the most popular) or Dolphin Supernova (the one I'm
using) can list and directly navigate to links, frames and headings on the
page provided that you are using Internet Explorer or HTML help. However,
these features are only marginally helpful in Python documentation.

I've looked at the source and it appears function names are bold tt elements
of class function. This representation has several drawbacks from an
accessibility point of view:

Firstly, there are no means for moving in terms of TT elements directly.
Secondly, TT elements cannot be listed or randomly navigated to from the
keyboard. And finally even the semantics are lost as the readre doesn't
announce the class function. In stead you are told meaningless details such
as that the function name is in Courier New 12 point and the parentheses
following the name are Times New Roman 13 point. Confronted with this info
alone, it is not at all clear that this formatting has special significance.

Some basic or very new screen readers like MIcrosoft Narrator, Gnome's
Gnopernicus or Apple's VoiceOver do even worse. You might not get the
formatting information at all, and many readres don't offer as wide and
extensive a variety of navigation functions as JAws or SUpernova do. One
quick-n-dirty solution is to find the function names in the HTML source but
it is very difficult to read because of all the numeric identifiers and HTml
tags themselves.

One easy fix would be to turn the function names preceeding their
documentation into headings. This would give the right semantics and allow
direct navigation for the more advanced readers. However, listing links, or
finding a link based on some text, are screen reader or Web browser specific
actions and not universally available.

Another way used in say JavaDoc is to include a separate navigation section
having function prototypes and the first sentence of their description at
the top of the file. While the link based method is generally effective,
some screen readres have difficulty in quickly returning to the top or
moving the focus to links close to something at the bottom of the page. In
addition to issues encountered with headings, many browsers only offer
sequential navigation from one link to the next using the tab key. SO if you
have dozens of functions, you need to press tab or shit+tab loads, or else
use some screen reader specific action to rapidly move to a particular link.

It should also be noted that one should use the whole prototype as a link
and not just the name as in JavaDoc. The reason is that if functions differ
by their signature alone, it is tedious to figure out which function is in
question based on the link name. HTMl guidelines recommend that links are
independent of their surroundings (context-free?).

To universally get rid of the lack of link listing or quick navigation
facilities, an additional HTML list box could be added. The items should be
in alphabetical order and there should be a separate default button for
actually jumping to the selected list item. Auto-jumps are bad because
traversing and reading the list item names from the keyboard can cause focus
changes. So  you may be unexpectedly taken away from the list box and might
not have enough time to read the whole name or ponder whether it is the one
you want. If using list separators, they shouldn't be made of punctuation
characters alone because many screen reader users, me included, have
punctuation set to none and thus nothing is spoken. The navigation list
ought to have a clearly visible and unambiguous text label saying that it is
a navigation list. Do avoid the term menu because to Windows screen reader
users, list boxes are never prompted as being menus, unlike on the Mac.

Even list boxes do have their weaknesses. Some browsers, namely Internet
Explorer, can only navigate based on the first letter typed. Thus you cannot
move to a function named foo directly but have to press the f key several
times to go through all items beginning with f. Further more, it is
difficult to include function signatures in the list box without sorting the
list by return type which is mostly undesirable.

As a rule of thumb including both a navigation list and a list of links
should solve the accessibility problem quite nicely. However, making a
separate article for each function under a heading would be of benefit in
CHM files. This would allow you to use the screen-reader independent
navigation features of the tree control and directly arrive at the desired
function using the TOC. Maybe this tac could be used in HTML, too, where it
would help with some reader specific navigation issues related to anchors
pointing to the same page. YOu could also navigate at the file system level
which is something I do a lot in browsing Java and Perl documentation.

2. Function names

While I do realize many of the PYthon names are well established, in
hindsight a great many are not particularly speech friendly. Programming
languages tend to use case changes or underscores to indicate word boundries
and boost readability. Nearly all Windows readers take this into account and
are able to correctly pronounce the individual words in functions such as
getHostName (or get_host_name).

In Python, on the other hand, names that have no explicit word delimiters
are annoyingly common judjing by the built-ins. A name such as getattr is
taken as a single word which makes the pronounciation incorrect and the
meaning unclear without using a spell command or cursoring letter by letter.
But because the names have a lot of inertia, I reckon there's nothing you
can do. Of course one can use an exception dictionary to correct the
pronounciation but this is an approach that calls for constant tweaking.

3. Pydoc

The tools that have a GUI are currently highly inaccessible in Windows. In
addition to idle this includes pydoc. I'm not sure what GUI library is being
used but have found several serious issues. The best working part are the
menus which are usable. However, some menu separators are made of
punctuation and are selectable. In Win32 menu separators should never be.
Another minor thing is that the scroll bars don't have context menus unlike
in say Notepad. While most sighted folks are just mildly amused should they
discover that there's a context menu, it can really come in handy at times.
If one has very little sight or difficulties using the mouse it may be very
time consuming to find and hit the small scroll thumb and move it at the
exact bottom or top. Though there's a hotkey, another way is selecting the
same thing in the scroll bar's context menu.

The real serius issue with the Python GUis is that they don't support the
keybord and are not screen reader accessible, at least in Windows. When
using the dialogs, the only thing Dolphin Supernova recognizes is the title
bar. And as many blind people don't even have the mouse, adding support for
tabbing around and using the arrows would be essential. One way to think of
this is attempting to use a modern GUI without the mouse or the monitor.

As far as I know, the only accessible GUI framework on Linux is currently 
GTK2, though QT
should have accessibility in the future. In Windows, things based on the
Win32 API supporting Active Accessibility should be usable (not all are, of
course including Visual Studio 2005 betas). TK appears to be very
inaccessible as are ports of GTK and the FireFOx GUI (currently). Java's 
Swing is
theoretically accessible but only if you have a screen reader and
AccessBridge beta and separately install the AccessBridge component. And
after all this, the UI doesn't respect the colors I've chosen and feels
highly non-native.

Sadly, it seems the only way to get a truely accessible GUI would be to
design things on a per platform basis using the GUI framework that is
accessible Win32, GTK, Cocoa (Classic and X ain't accessible).

I think that's about all I wanted to report this time. I hope all three
issues can be taken care of in the long run. Additionally, it would be great
to get a version of the Python 2.4 docs that enables easy navigation using a
screen reader.
End of quote.

Addition:

System:
HP NX8220 laptop
Win XP Pro SP2 English with latest fixes
Dolphin Supernova 6.03 with latest map files
Python 2.4

-- 
With kind regards Veli-Pekka T?til? (vtatila at mail.student.oulu.fi)
Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/ 




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 15:33:39 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:33:39 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<aY6dnVCeQcxMh9XeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <di96uh$pcm$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> Don't think so matey.

oh, come on.  a site run by some random guy in North Carolina has to be
safer, faster and more reliable than a distributed communication system that
has been around since that guy was born...

</F> 





From martijn at gamecreators.nl  Tue Oct  4 09:31:57 2005
From: martijn at gamecreators.nl (martijn at gamecreators.nl)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:31:57 -0700
Subject: ssh or other python editor
In-Reply-To: <1128432388.417194.323400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432388.417194.323400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128432716.957123.307030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

googling arround give me a full list of python editors and other stuff
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 01:46:33 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:46:33 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7rZ7f.6819$dO2.5775@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <djppjp$t5s$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Mike Schilling wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote in message
> news:djpf90$pbm$1 at nntp.webmaster.com...

>>    There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one
>> preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to
>> other with minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do
>> compete with Windows PCs.

> There's a huge difference to the non-techy consumer.  One of the
> buggest reasons Linux has had a reputation of being harder to use
> than Windows was the fact that Linux had to be installed, while
> Windows just booted up.

    Is that really true? I mean, I remember distributions of Linux that you 
could just stick in the CD, boot from CD, and you were up in minutes. 
Installing was as simple as pushing the 'install to hard drive' button.

    I think one of the biggest reasons Linux has a reputation of being 
harder to use than Windows is that it *is* harder to use. However, the 
payoff is that when a Linux machine breaks, you can fix it. When a Windows 
machine breaks, you pretty much have to reinstall. And Windows machines 
break in this way more often because it's much harder to limit what a user 
or program can do.

    Linux, for example, would be easier to use if it had no permissions 
checks and always ran everything as root. However, it doesn't do this the 
way Windows does (or more accurately, the way Windows users typically do), 
because that's just not the Linux way.

    I'm trying to think of a good analogy to make my point clearer, but I 
can't.

    IMO, a person who doesn't find installing Linux to be easy wouldn't be 
able to use a Linux desktop (or do much with a Linux server either for that 
matter). But I could be out of date, I haven't really tried to use the more 
recent Linux desktop builds as desktops. But, IMO, that was certainly true 
in the time frame we're talking about.

    DS




From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 02:59:04 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 06:59:04 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
Message-ID: <slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-03, George Sakkis schreef <gsakkis at rutgers.edu>:
> "Michael" <ms at cerenity.org> wrote:
>
>> James A. Donald wrote:
>> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:11:13 -0400, Jean-Francois Doyon
>> > James A. Donald:
>> >>  > Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
>> >>  > mysteriously fail to work with no error message.
>> >> No, the error message will be pretty clear actually :)
>> > Now why, I wonder,  does this loop never end :-)
>> > egold = 0
>> > while egold < 10:
>> >    ego1d = egold+1
>>
>> I know (hope! :-) that's a tongue-in-cheek question, however the answer as
>> to why that's not a problem is more to do with development habits rather
>> than language enforcement. (yes with bad habits that can and will happen)
>>
>> [snipped description of test-driven development culture]
>
> As an aside, more to the point of the specific erroneous example is the lack of the standard python
> idiom for iteration:
>
> for egold in xrange(10):
>     pass
>
> Learning and using standard idioms is an essential part of learning a language; python is no
> exception to this.

Well I'm a bit getting sick of those references to standard idioms.
There are moments those standard idioms don't work, while the
gist of the OP's remark still stands like:

  egold = 0:
  while egold < 10:
    if test():
      ego1d = egold + 1

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From http  Fri Oct  7 22:44:10 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 19:44:10 -0700
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1740.1128738576.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd5mgwww5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Ivan Shevanski" <darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com> writes:
> Alright, I'm going to stop trying to defend my idea since it's
> obviously a bad one.  What do you recommend?

Just choose the options that you present carefully.  If you have
unsophisticated users and you want to be a bit fancier, put up a GUI
so they just click a button instead of typing something.  GUI
programming takes a little practice (the current docs are not very
good) but it's a useful skill to have.



From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 10 14:17:50 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:17:50 -0500
Subject: Python enjoyment (was Re: Python's Performance)
In-Reply-To: <BZj2f.6130$ae.3233@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<p90jk1tspllkptk5q0jsag7gjo0fhb1aj9@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.31.45.89195@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<BZj2f.6130$ae.3233@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <817EDDD1-BAE1-4246-B969-4D5E6D636974@sbcglobal.net>

Ditto to the below! I quite literally considered leaving the CS field  
until I found Python. Now my main job description is 'technical  
writing', but I get to use python at work (MoinMoin) and for all of  
my own computing needs.

Cheers,
Ken

On 10-Oct-05, at 2:03 AM, Ron Adam wrote:

> If I was forced to go back to MS C++ again, I think I would take up
> painting instead of programing as my main hobby.
>
> ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>     Ron
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 15:51:16 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:51:16 +0200
Subject: Saving an image to file from windows clipboard
References: <1128713363.664540.84030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di6jjo$qrm$1@sea.gmane.org>

stephen at theboulets.net wrote:

> I just threw this together because I find myself needing it now and
> then. Requires PIL and optionally ImageMagick to convert to png, since
> I think PIL is not able yet to convert a bmp to a png.

well, not in one step, but it can load BMP images and save PNG
images.  and in this case, grabclipboard should return something
that can be saved directly to a PNG file.

> You can of course use the os.path module instead of the path module.
> I keep it in my windows start menu for convenience.
>
> from PIL import ImageGrab
> from os import popen
> from path import path
>
> myimage = ImageGrab.grabclipboard()
>
> myfile = path(r'D:\Profiles\csb046.DS\Desktop\screen.bmp')
> f = file(myfile,'wb')
> myimage.save(f)
> f.close()
>
> command = 'convert "' + myfile + '" "' + myfile.replace('bmp','png') +
> '"'
>
> popen(command).read()
> myfile.remove()

a plain

    myimage = ImageGrab.grabclipboard()
    myimage.save('D:/Profiles/csb046.DS/Desktop/screen.bmp')

should work (if it doesn't, let me know what exception you get).

> Thanks PIL folks!

our pleasure.

</F>





From jwkenne at attglobal.net  Tue Oct 18 14:49:53 2005
From: jwkenne at attglobal.net (John W. Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:49:53 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <11l48tuqj7m11b5@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11l48tuqj7m11b5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <stb5f.29428$Ge5.11115@fe10.lga>

Jeroen Wenting wrote:
> And were later forced to rescind. The judge who wrote that opinion is well 
> known for his anti-Microsoft activism.

That's an outright lie.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated!
http://pws.prserv.net/jwkennedy/Double%20Falshood/index.html


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 06:47:44 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:47:44 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:31:41 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote, quoted or
indirectly quoted someone who said :

>I used to be a retailer of custom computers.  MS used a dirty trick to
>compete with IBM's OS/2.  They said to me as a retailer. You must buy
>a copy of our OS for EVERY machine you sell.  The alternative is to
>pay full retail for the OSes.

Through intimidation, MS managed to control the entire retail computer
market  in Vancouver BC to the extent you could not buy even the most
stripped down computer  without having to buy a copy of Windows with
it, whether you wanted it or not.

You might not want it because you bought OS/2.

You might not want it because you already owned Windows from your
older machine you were upgrading.

You might not want it because somebody stole your machine and they did
not steal all your software masters.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 17 18:29:28 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:29:28 -0500
Subject: bizarro world (was Re: Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
	(reprise))
In-Reply-To: <1129535963.282518.295280@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1129097121.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129535963.282518.295280@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510171729.28315.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

print """\
On Monday 17 October 2005 02:59 am, Xah Lee wrote:
> 
> Bryan wrote:
> > mr. xah... would you be willing to give a lecture at pycon 2006?  i'm sure you
> > would draw a huge crowd and a lot of people would like to meet you in person...
> >
> > thanks.
> 
> I'd be delight to.
> 
> My requirements are: 1 cup of fat-free milk, free, and free pizza.
""".replace('crowd', 'angry mob')

;-D
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From schwehr at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:38:36 2005
From: schwehr at gmail.com (schwehr at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:38:36 -0700
Subject: Math markup in code documentation?
Message-ID: <1130251116.027733.123750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Done any one have a way (and examples) of how to do math markups in the
docstrings of function and class definitions such that the equations
get typeset in the generated html documentation?  I'll take any markup
system that'll do the job... MathML or LaTeX possible?

I'd like to start doing a better job of documenting the equations and
units being used in pmag-py (http://schwehr.org/software/pmag) for
processing paleomagnetic data.

AND on the longest of long shots... anyone have any opensource python
for matching bulk composition to minerals?  Nah, I thought not.

Thanks!
-kurt



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 16:09:22 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:09:22 GMT
Subject: Tricky import question.
References: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2546.1130249396.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130253287.721535.322370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130255468.174460.227300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e906d.948197646@news.oz.net>

On 25 Oct 2005 08:51:08 -0700, "David Poundall" <david at jotax.com> wrote:

>This worked ...
>
>def my_import(name):
>    mod = __import__(name)
>    components = name.split('.')
>    for comp in components[1:]:
>        mod = getattr(mod, comp)
>    return mod
>
>for reasons given here...
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/lib/built-in-funcs.html
>
Aha. You didn't mention multi-dot names ;-)
But was that the real problem? Your original code
wasn't using anything corresponding to mod above.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From lycka at carmen.se  Thu Oct 20 07:11:46 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:11:46 +0200
Subject: Writing an immutable object in python
In-Reply-To: <1129649265.168515.306010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj0ibt$4ja$1@wake.carmen.se>
	<1129649265.168515.306010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj7u1i$62r$1@wake.carmen.se>

Mapisto wrote:
> Ok, I've understood my mistake.
> 
> Now, my list contains a shared entry of an empty object. When an entry
> is needed to be changed, I check if the entry is the shared empty
> object; in that case I create a new unique instance. If the entry is
> already a unique instance, I use it, so the empty object isn't touched.

It's probably less confusing if you make a list
of None, instead of a list of references to an
instance object you don't use anyway.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Oct 19 16:47:19 2005
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:47:19 -0600
Subject: Extention Woes
In-Reply-To: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4356B0D7.6040401@pythonapocrypha.com>

Tuvas wrote:
> I am in the process of writing an extention module, and am coming up
> with lots of problems.

This isn't a direct answer to your question, but what sort of extension is it? 
Do you need to actually write a Python extension?

I ask because I've all but stopped writing Python extension modules and just use 
ctypes instead (i.e. write your module as a normal .dll or .so that exports some 
functions, and then use ctypes to call them).

There are probably some cases where this approach isn't a good fit, but it has 
worked really well for me for a lot of different applications.

Best of luck,
-Dave


From sunspire at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 17:25:24 2005
From: sunspire at gmail.com (Max Rybinsky)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 14:25:24 -0700
Subject: lambda functions within list comprehensions
Message-ID: <1130621124.101346.67750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello!

Please take a look at the example.

>>> a = [(x, y) for x, y in map(None, range(10), range(10))] # Just a list of tuples
>>> a
[(0, 0), (1, 1), (2, 2), (3, 3), (4, 4), (5, 5), (6, 6), (7, 7), (8,
8), (9, 9)]

Now i want to get a list of functions x*y/n, for each (x, y) in a:

>>> funcs = [lambda n: x * y / n for x, y in a]

It looks consistent!

>>> funcs
[<function <lambda> at 0x010F3DF0>, <function <lambda> at 0x010F7CF0>,
<function <lambda> at 0x010F7730>, <function <lambda> at 0x010FD270>,
<function <lambda> at 0x010FD0B0>, <function <lambda> at 0x010FD5B0>,
<function <lambda> at 0x010FD570>, <function <lambda> at 0x010FD630>,
<function <lambda> at 0x01100270>, <function <lambda> at 0x011002B0>]

...and functions are likely to be different.

>>> funcs[0](1)
81

But they aren't!

>>> for func in funcs:
... print func(1)
...
81
81
81
81
81
81
81
81
81
81

It seems, all functions have x and y set to 9.
What's wrong with it? Is it a bug?

On the other hand, this problem has a solution:

>>> def buldFunc(x, y):
... return lambda n: x * y / n
...
>>> funcs = [buldFunc(x, y) for x, y in a]

... and it does work!

But why not to save several lines of code? ;)

Thanks in advance.



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sat Oct 29 15:15:46 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:15:46 -0500
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net> <3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net>
	<864q70evci.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <3si036Fofks2U1@individual.net>

"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:864q70evci.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> "Paul Watson" <pwatson at redlinepy.com> writes:
...
> Did you do timings on it vs. mmap? Having to copy the data multiple
> times to deal with the overlap - thanks to strings being immutable -
> would seem to be a lose, and makes me wonder how it could be faster
> than mmap in general.

The only thing copied is a string one byte less than the search string for 
each block.

I did not do due dilligence with respect to timings.  Here is a small 
dataset read sequentially and using mmap.

$ ls -lgG t.dat
-rw-r--r--  1 16777216 Oct 28 16:32 t.dat
$ time  ./scanfile.py
1048576
    0.80s real     0.64s user     0.15s system
$ time  ./scanfilemmap.py
1048576
   20.33s real     6.09s user    14.24s system

With a larger file, the system time skyrockets. I assume that to be the 
paging mechanism in the OS.  This is Cyngwin on Windows XP.

$ ls -lgG t2.dat
-rw-r--r--  1 268435456 Oct 28 16:33 t2.dat
$ time  ./scanfile.py
16777216
   28.85s real    16.37s user     0.93s system
$ time  ./scanfilemmap.py
16777216
  323.45s real    94.45s user   227.74s system




From moondusterone at comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 21:17:50 2005
From: moondusterone at comcast.net (moondusterone)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:17:50 -0500
Subject: Newbie needs help. Setting PYTHONDOCS to read HTML.
Message-ID: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>

I have installed Python 2.4.2 from Python.org. I type "help()" and I get 
basic help.  In help, I type "keywords" and I get an error saying, "Sorry, 
topic and keyword documentation is not available because the Python HTML 
documentation  files could not be found. If you have installed them, please 
set the envirenment variable PYTHONDOCS to indicate their location."  I have 
downloaded them and they are in the same folder with Pythons other files. 
I'm using XP.  I can open the HTML file manually and it opens ok.  Can I use 
Python regardless?  Thanks! 




From Nobody at Nowhere.com  Sat Oct 15 20:22:59 2005
From: Nobody at Nowhere.com (Casey Bralla)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:22:59 -0400
Subject: Return Text from popen
Message-ID: <34j823-jon.ln1@SuperServer.NerdWorld.org>

I know this problem has a very simple answer, but I've checked the web and I
don't understand the answers that I've found.

How do I return text from a standard Linux command?

For example:  I want to read the stdout results of a typical linux command
(such as "df") into a Python variable.

I've tried these techniques:

 result = os.system("df")
 It dumps the stdout to a screen and puts the result code into "result"

 result = popen2("df")
 It gives me a tuple of the stdin & stdout pipes, which I don't know how to
harvest into the actual stdout result.


Can someone give me a brief code example of how to get the actual text
result from the linux command into a Python variable?  Thanks!

-- 
Casey Bralla
Chief Nerd in Residence
The NerdWorld Organisation
http://www.NerdWorld.org


From alexs at advfn.com  Tue Oct 25 10:20:47 2005
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:20:47 +0100
Subject: Web based applications are possible with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <1129666596.739256.151100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129666596.739256.151100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <12887C84-B35D-44D1-BC7E-BC59F3495FCF@advfn.com>

Looks shockingly like yet another Java VNC client to me.

On 18 Oct 2005, at 21:16, Eli Criffield wrote:

> http://www.nomachine.com/companion_screenshots.php
>
> While not exacly what your talking about, its about as close as i can
> think of. This allows you to run any X applications inside a web
> browser.
>
> Eli
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 31 05:39:29 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 08:39:29 -0200
Subject: tachometer diagram
References: <1130753253.564379.63190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<87irvengel.fsf@linux.site>
	<1130753984.928720.9420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877jbunf6m.fsf@linux.site>

"Andreas Kaiser" <kaiser.vocote at gmail.com> writes:

> I can change my mind, sorry. The target OS for this app is Win. When
> pyQt4 is available, I will check QT.

Dunnon the licensing, but there's a Qt3 GPL available for Win...  It is not
official, but it runs :-)  You'd have to Google for it, though, since I don't
have the URL for it anymore.

-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sat Oct  8 20:57:58 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 17:57:58 -0700
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128812979.64e46e0be2c6fb7fe6fdb8dd3dab1e09@teranews>
Message-ID: <1128819478.402539.95520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

George Sakkis wrote:
> I am sure it is pronounced the same way as wxWidgets <wink>.

Which is in turn pronounced the same way as wxWindows. As to how that's
pronounced, I'd suggest asking Microsoft's lawyers whose actions in
"defending" an arguably dubious trademark possibly involved
investigating this issue in more depth.

Paul



From Tomasik at 2kop.mil.pl  Tue Oct 18 08:30:35 2005
From: Tomasik at 2kop.mil.pl (Robert)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:30:35 +0200
Subject: wxPython + pyPlot
Message-ID: <dj2ptf$aqb$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Hellow!

I'm writing program with wxpython and pyplot. 
I need to put a graph (example):

def _draw1Objects():
        # 100 points sin function, plotted as green circles
        data1 = 2.*Numeric.pi*Numeric.arange(200)/200.
        data1.shape = (100, 2)
        data1[:,1] = Numeric.sin(data1[:,0])
        markers1 = PolyMarker(data1, legend='Green Markers', 
        colour='green', marker='circle',size=1)

        # 50 points cos function, plotted as red line
        data1 = 2.*Numeric.pi*Numeric.arange(100)/100.
        data1.shape = (50,2)
        data1[:,1] = Numeric.cos(data1[:,0])
        lines = PolyLine(data1, legend= 'Red Line', colour='red')

        # A few more points...
        pi = Numeric.pi
        markers2 = PolyMarker([(0., 0.), (pi/4., 1.), (pi/2, 0.),
        (3.*pi/4., -1)], legend='Cross Legend', colour='blue',
        marker='cross')
        
        return PlotGraphics([markers1, lines, markers2],"Graph 
        Title", "X Axis", "Y Axis") 


 on the PlotConvas object 

  self.notebook1 = wx.Notebook(id=wxID_FRAME1NOTEBOOK1, name='notebook1',
              parent=self, pos=wx.Point(8, 24), size=wx.Size(800, 360),
              style=0)
  
  self.Okno_PT = wx.Window(id=wxID_FRAME1Okno_PT, name='Okno_PT',
              parent=self.notebook1, pos=wx.Point(0, 0),        
              size=wx.Size(798,328), style=0)    
              
  self.Wykres_PT = wx.lib.plot.PlotCanvas(id=wxID_FRAME1WYKRES_PT,
              name=u'Wykres_PT', parent=self.Okno_PT, pos=wx.Point(0, 0),
              size=wx.Size(510, 328), style=0)


and I don't now how to do that.

thanks for any help.
Robert


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Mon Oct 24 04:05:12 2005
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:05:12 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>
	<868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11liivcbmeops4b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <opsy44qyjyrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:13:32 -0000, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> On 2005-10-21, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>>> My point: the OP wanted to know how to export an environment
>>> variable to a child process.  Either of the lines of code above
>>> will do that, so what's with all the shellular shenanigans?
>>
>> Actually, the OP didn't say he wanted to export a variable to a child
>> process. He said he wanted to know how to do the equivalent of "export
>> SYMBOL=value", which got intreprted as "setting a variable in the
>> parent shell."
>
> The only think you can export an environment variable to is a
> child process

Well, you know that, and I know that too. From my experience, many people don't...

> so I thought it obvious that was what he was
> doing with the "export" command example.

Well, when I first read the OP's message, I thought it was obvious he wanted to export the variable to the parent shell. Re-reading it, it was actually not so obvious, so my apologies for not having included an example using os.environment...
-- 
python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in 'U(17zX(%,5.zmz5(17;8(%,5.Z65\'*9--56l7+-'])"


From tsaparas4life at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 12:00:45 2005
From: tsaparas4life at hotmail.com (Nikola)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 09:00:45 -0700
Subject: Installing Python at Work
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2168.1129562547.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2168.1129562547.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129564845.113321.92140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Many thanks. I know it sounds like a silly question, but it's the
company's laptop etc.  

Does Python allow conflicting statements? :)



From daniel.neilson at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 17:31:36 2005
From: daniel.neilson at gmail.com (daniel.neilson at gmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:31:36 -0700
Subject: matching elements of numeric arrays
Message-ID: <1129239096.340248.222440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have two one-dimensional Numeric arrays, and I need to know the
indices in the second array of elements from the first.

so if i had:

a=array([2,4,6])
b=array([2,3,4,5,6])

i want a function match that does this:

>>> match(a,b)
array([0,2,4])

i have something that works, but it involves converting things to lists
and using 'in', and it is rather slow. if someone could point me to a
better solution, i would appreciate it.



From a.jaffe-usenet at bakerjaffe.plus.com  Fri Oct 21 02:31:57 2005
From: a.jaffe-usenet at bakerjaffe.plus.com (Andrew Jaffe)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:31:57 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
	<mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>

> Andrew Jaffe wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to 
>> store global state information for all instances of a class. These are 
>> set by a classmethod as in the following
>>
>> class sup(object):
>>      cvar1 = None
>>      cvar2 = None
>>
>>      @classmethod
>>      def setcvar1(cls, val):
>>          cls.cvar1 = val
>>
>>      @classmethod
>>      def setcvar2(cls, val):
>>          cls.cvar2 = val
>>
>>      @classmethod
>>      def printcvars(cls):
>>     print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
>>
>> Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I 
>> override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this 
>> class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:
>>
>> class sub(sup):
>>      cvar1a = None
>>
>>      @classmethod
>>      def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
>>          cls.cvar1a = vala
>>          sup.setcvar1(val)
>>
>>      @classmethod
>>      def printcvars(cls):
>>          print cls.cvar1a
>>          sup.printcvars()
>>
>> This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.
>>
>> However, if  I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call 
>> sub.setcvar2(val) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no 
>> longer identical to sup.cvar1!
>>
>> In particular,
>>      sub.setcvar1(1,10)
>>      sub.setcvar2(2)
>>      sub.printcvars()
>> prints
>>    10
>>    1 None
>>
>> i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
>> but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None
>>
>> This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?
>>
> 
> You are experiencing this problem because you are using hard-wired class 
> names. Try using (for example) self.__class__. That way, even if your 
> method is inheroted by a subclass it will use the class of the object it 
> finds itself a method of. No need to use classmethods.

The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the 
class itself, before I've made any instances.

A


From kbk at shore.net  Sun Oct 16 00:34:07 2005
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:34:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200510160434.j9G4Y7HG022965@bayview.thirdcreek.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  344 open ( +3) /  2955 closed ( +2) /  3299 total ( +5)
Bugs    :  883 open ( -1) /  5341 closed (+20) /  6224 total (+19)
RFE     :  201 open ( +5) /   187 closed ( +0) /   388 total ( +5)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

Compiling and linking main() with C++ compiler  (2005-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1324762  opened by  Christoph Ludwig

Adding redblack tree to collections module  (2005-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1324770  opened by  Hye-Shik Chang

Letting "build_ext --libraries" take more than one lib  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1326113  opened by  Stephen A. Langer

VS NET 2003 Project Files contain per file compiler settings  (2005-10-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1327377  opened by  Juan-Carlos Lopez-Garcia

Static Windows Build fails to locate existing installation  (2005-10-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1327594  opened by  Doe, Baby

Patches Closed
______________

Encoding alias "unicode-1-1-utf-7"  (2005-07-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1245379  closed by  doerwalter

Py_INCREF/Py_DECREF with magic constant demo  (2005-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1316653  closed by  rhamphoryncus

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

irregular behavior within class using __setitem__  (2005-10-08)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1317376  opened by  capnSTABN

Missing Library Modules  (2005-10-09)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1321736  opened by  George LeCompte

Minor error in the Library Reference doc  (2005-10-10)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1323294  opened by  Colin J. Williams

getwindowsversion() constants in sys module  (2005-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1323369  opened by  Tony Meyer

C API doc for PySequence_Tuple duplicated  (2005-10-11)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1323739  opened by  George Yoshida

MSI installer not working  (2005-10-11)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1323810  opened by  Eric Rucker

ISO8859-9 broken  (2005-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1324237  opened by  Eray Ozkural

Curses module doesn't install on Solaris 2.8  (2005-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1324799  opened by  Andrew Koenig

"as" keyword sometimes highlighted in strings  (2005-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1325071  opened by  Artur de Sousa Rocha

binary code made by freeze results "unknown encoding"  (2005-10-13)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1325491  opened by  greatPython

Curses,h  (2005-10-13)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1325611  reopened by  rbrenner

Curses,h  (2005-10-13)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1325611  opened by  hafnium

Curses,h  (2005-10-13)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1325903  opened by  hafnium

traceback.py formats SyntaxError differently  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1326077  opened by  Neil Schemenauer

odd behaviour when making lists of lambda forms  (2005-10-13)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1326195  opened by  Johan Hidding

itertools.count wraps around after maxint  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1326277  opened by  paul rubin

pdb breaks programs which import from __main__  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1326406  opened by  Ilya Sandler

set.__getstate__ is not overriden  (2005-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1326448  opened by  George Sakkis

SIGALRM alarm signal kills interpreter  (2005-10-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1326841  opened by  paul rubin

wrong TypeError traceback in generator expressions  (2005-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1327110  opened by  Yusuke Shinyama

title() uppercases latin1 strings after accented letters  (2005-10-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1327233  opened by  Humberto Di?genes

Bugs Closed
___________

Segmentation fault with invalid "coding"  (2005-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1316162  closed by  birkenfeld

irregular behavior within class using __setitem__  (2005-10-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1317376  closed by  ncoghlan

python.exe 2.4.2 compiled with VS2005 crashes  (2005-10-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1311784  closed by  loewis

2.4.2 make problems  (2005-10-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1311579  closed by  loewis

2.4.1 windows MSI has no _socket  (2005-09-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1302793  closed by  loewis

The _ssl build process for 2.3.5 is broken  (2005-09-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1292634  closed by  loewis

codecs.readline sometimes removes newline chars  (2005-04-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1175396  closed by  doerwalter

Missing Library Modules  (2005-10-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1321736  closed by  nnorwitz

inspect.getsourcelines() broken  (2005-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1315961  closed by  doerwalter

Minor error in the Library Reference doc  (2005-10-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1323294  closed by  nnorwitz

failure to build RPM on rhel 3  (2005-07-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1246900  closed by  jafo

C API doc for PySequence_Tuple duplicated  (2005-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1323739  closed by  nnorwitz

MSI installer not working  (2005-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1323810  closed by  loewis

[AST] Patch [ 1190012 ] should've checked for SyntaxWarnings  (2005-05-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1195576  closed by  nascheme

binary code made by freeze results "unknown encoding"  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1325491  closed by  perky

Curses,h  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1325611  closed by  birkenfeld

Curses,h  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1325611  closed by  perky

Curses,h  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1325903  closed by  birkenfeld

odd behaviour when making lists of lambda forms  (2005-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1326195  closed by  rhettinger

SIGALRM alarm signal kills interpreter  (2005-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1326841  closed by  loewis

title() uppercases latin1 strings after accented letters  (2005-10-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1327233  closed by  perky

New / Reopened RFE
__________________

itemgetter built-in?  (2005-10-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1322308  opened by  capnSTABN

fix for ms stdio tables   (2005-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1324176  opened by  Vambola Kotkas

__name__ available during class dictionary build  (2005-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1324261  opened by  Adal Chiriliuc

python scratchpad  (2005-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1326830  opened by  paul rubin



From pje at telecommunity.com  Thu Oct 13 23:29:05 2005
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 20:29:05 -0700
Subject: setuptools, ez_setup over http proxy
References: <1129252549.899651.327160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129260545.826365.152660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

yoda wrote:
> I've recently configured my network such that I use squid as a http
> proxy.  I'd now like to be able to use setuptools and ez_setup via this
> proxy.  Is this possible? If so, how do I do it?

The key thing is just that Python's urllib module needs to be able to
retrieve web pages and download files.  Try pulling up your Python
interpreter and retrieving a page with urllib.  If it works, you're
good to go, and no need to bother with anything else.

If it doesn't work, try Jay's suggestions for setting environment
variables, or consult the urllib doc and/or code for more details on
how urllib finds out what proxy to use.

> The most that the setuptools documentation says is
> (http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools):
>
> "....If you are behind an NTLM-based firewall that prevents Python
> programs from accessing the net directly, you may wish to first install
> and use the APS proxy server, which lets you get past such firewalls in
> the same way that your web browser(s) do....."

Yeah, I mention this because by far the most common cause of problems
for Windows users is that they're behind one of those infernal
NTLM-based firewalls and thus can't use urllib unaided.


> ps. I'm not sure that this is the right forum for this question.  If it
> isn't feel free to point me to the right place.

The distutils-sig mailing list is the best place to ensure you get an
answer relatively quickly, since I don't subscribe to this list, just
skim it from time to time.



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct 12 12:19:42 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:19:42 -0500
Subject: Listen for directory events
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1974.1129133174.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1974.1129133174.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434D379E.9070609@websafe.com>

Googling for "python watch for directory changes" turns these
links:

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/win32_how_do_i/watch_directory_for_changes.html
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/156178
http://www.amk.ca/python/simple/dirwatch.html

One of those should help you out.

Google is your friend!

Larry Bates


Bell, Kevin wrote:
> Anyone have any advice on listening for directory events?  
> 
> I'd like to fire off my script if new files are added to a directory.
> Right now, I've set up my script as a scheduled task (Windows XP) and
> when the script is run periodically, it initially looks for new files
> and does it's magic if there are some.  I assume I could have python
> check for new files then sleep for a bit, and check again.  If I did it
> that way, would I run into problems running other py scripts while the
> first one was active?  I read about processes being protected from each
> other, but didn't really grok it in fullness.
> 
> Kev
> 
> 



From gshepherd281 at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  4 23:04:39 2005
From: gshepherd281 at earthlink.net (gshepherd281 at earthlink.net)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 20:04:39 -0700
Subject: Newbie Text Processing Question
Message-ID: <1128481479.661502.14020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm a total newbie to Python so any and all advice is greatly
appreciated.

I'm trying to use regular expressions to process text in an SGML file
but only in one section.

So the input would look like this:

<ch-part no="I"><title>RESEARCH GUIDE
<sec-main no="1.01"><title>content
<para>content

<sec-main no="2.01"><title>content
<para>content


<ch-part no="II"><title>FORMS
<sec-main no="3.01"><title>content

<sec-sub1 no="1"><title>content
<para>content

<sec-sub2 no="1"><title>content
<para>content


and the output like this:

<ch-part no="I"><title>RESEARCH GUIDE
<sec-main no="1.01"><title>content
<biblio>
<para>content
</biblio>

<sec-main no="2.01"><title>content
<biblio>
<para>content
</biblio>

<ch-part no="II"><title>FORMS
<sec-main no="3.01"><title>content

<sec-sub1 no="1"><title>content
<para>content

<sec-sub2 no="1"><title>content
<para>content


But no matter what I try I end up changing the entire file rather than
just one part.

Here's what I've come up with so far but I can't think of anything
else.

***

import os, re
setpath = raw_input("Enter the path where the program should run: ")
print

for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
     fname = files
     for fname in files:
          inputFile = file(os.path.join(root,fname), 'r')
          line = inputFile.read()
          inputFile.close()


          chpart_pattern = re.compile(r'<ch-part
no=\"[A-Z]{1,4}\"><title>(RESEARCH)', re.IGNORECASE)

          while 1:
               if chpart_pattern.search(line):
                    line = re.sub(r"<sec-main
no=(\"[0-9]*.[0-9]*\")><title>(.*)", r"<sec-main
no=\1><title>\2\n<biblio>", line)
                    outputFile = file(os.path.join(root,fname), 'w')
                    outputFile.write(line)
                    outputFile.close()
                    break

               if chpart_pattern.search(line) is None:
                    print 'none'
                    break

Thanks,

Greg



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Oct 13 11:13:59 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 08:13:59 -0700
Subject: cgi python
References: <1129215225.778017.20340@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129216439.418378.308760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Python_it wrote:
> I going to use the cgi-handler (mod_python):
>
> http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-3.2.2b/doc-html/hand-cgi.html
>
> If I test a simply py script it works

You don't say how you test it, but I imagine that you just point your
browser to the location where the program is published, without
specifying any query parameters - see below for the significance of
this.

[...]

> But if I test a py script with cgi comments (import cgi):
>
> Part of the code
> ============
> import cgi
>
> #get HTTP query parameters
> query = cgi.FieldStorage()
>
> #Get the selected year and month
> selectedYear = int(query["year"].value)

[...]

> KeyError: 'year'

The problem is that if you point your browser to this new program and
don't specify query parameters (eg. ?year=2005&x=10&value=5000 on the
end of the URL) then attempting to get the "year" parameter from the
query object will fail because the parameter doesn't exist - you didn't
specify it.

What you should do is to test for its presence first, just like you
would with a normal Python dictionary, and I believe that the query
object supports the has_key method:

if query.has_key("year"):
    selectedYear = int(query["year"].value)

A more comprehensive alternative, given that the "year" parameter may
not be a number, is to catch any exceptions raised when you try and get
the parameter's value:

try:
    selectedYear = int(query["year"].value)
except KeyError:
    Do something here about the missing parameter.
except ValueError:
    Do something here about a non-integer parameter.

Testing Web applications can be hard, but the traceback tells you
everything you need to know here.

Paul



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  6 09:59:35 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:59:35 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-06, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at nospam.web.de>:
>> 
>> I can't help but feel that a lot of people have specific typechecking
>> systems in mind and then conclude that the limits of such a symtem
>> are inherent in typechecking itself.
>
> I've been writing a type-checker for my diploma thesis for a functionnal 
> programmming language. And it _is_ limited. The very subject of my work 
> was to explore extended type-checking methods (so called 
> multi-level-specifications),, which can be shwon to be NP-hard problems. 
> Which naturally limits the domains they can be used to.
>
>> IMO a good type system doesn't need to limit python in any way.
>
> It has to. certainly. Take alone the list implementation - while 
> typesystems as ML allow for generics (with much less typing overhead 
> than JAVA), the list is always homogenous. Which python's aren't - and 
> that a great thing(tm),

Suppose we have a typesystem which has the type ANY, which would mean
such an object could be any type. You could then have homogenous lists
in the sense that all elements should be of the same declared type and
at the same time mix all kind of type in a particular list, just
as python does.

So how would this limit python.

> even though ususally the contents of a list 
> share some common behaviour. And that exactly is the key point here: in 
> a statically typed world, that common behaviour must have been extracted 
> and made explicit.

Would my suggestion be classified as a statically typed world?

> Which is the cause for that notorious java io API. 
> And, to extend the argument to ML-type type-checking, there you need a 
> disjoint union of the possible types - _beforehand_, and the code 
> dealing with it has to be aware of it.
>
> In python OTH, I just pass objects I like into the list - if they 
> behave, fine.

But now we are no longer talking about how typechecking would limit
the language but about convenience for the user.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Sat Oct  1 13:23:41 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 21:23:41 +0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private,protected and  
	public?
In-Reply-To: <7xoe6anrlk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus. brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhfs9k$mgq$1@ 
	newsreader1.utanet.at> <7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.29.1 4.16.01.588394@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1142.1128003951.509.python-l ist@python.org>
	<dhgvob$h7g$1@news.doit.wisc.edu> <slrndjpp87.8ai.apardon@rcp
	c42.vub.ac.be> <dhjnst$2ha$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<7xoe6anrlk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20051001212341.21851dca.jk@ospaz.ru>

On 30 Sep 2005 15:00:39 -0700
Paul Rubin wrote:

> Rocco Moretti <roccomoretti at hotpop.com> writes:
> > There is little in the way of technical problems that are solved by
> > language level enforcement of private variables. The issues in
> > question are mostly social ones, and if you're not reading and
> > following the documented interface, stopping private variable access
> > is not going to prevent most of your problems.
> 
> Well, that says you consider both code auditing and debugging to be
> social problems rather than technical ones.  Maybe that's reasonable,

By the way, any programming language is a social issue; only machine code
is technical.

-- 
jk


From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  7 08:07:14 2005
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (alainpoint at yahoo.fr)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 05:07:14 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
Message-ID: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I came accross what i think is a serious bug in the python interpreter.

Membership testing seems not to work for list of objects when these
objects have a user-defined __cmp__ method.
It is present in Python 2.3 and 2.4. I don't know about other versions.
The following code illustrates the bug:
from random import choice
class OBJ:
	def __init__(self,identifier):
		self.id=identifier
		self.allocated=0
	def __cmp__(self,other):
		return cmp(other.allocated,self.allocated)
mylist=[OBJ(i) for i in range(20)]
excluded=[obj for obj in mylist if obj.id>choice(range(20))]
for obj in mylist:
	if obj in excluded:
		assert obj.id in [objt.id for objt in excluded]
		continue

Running the above snippet will trigger the assert. The culprit seems to
be the __cmp__ method which sorts on a key with constant value.
Best regards
Alain



From richard at nospam.com  Mon Oct 10 17:12:54 2005
From: richard at nospam.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:12:54 +0100
Subject: Creating internet shortcuts
References: <1p9jp8i0al14h$.1xmuz4fyfs4m5.dlg@40tude.net>
	<1128913971_130673@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1syv1vhj9qc4a$.zs1wd4kn5vdr$.dlg@40tude.net>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:08:45 -0400, Roger Upole wrote:

> Pythoncom doesn't directly support the necessary interfaces,
> but you can use the Shell COM interfaces to create them.
> 
> import win32com.client
> wsh=win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch('wscript.shell')
> s=wsh.CreateShortcut('c:\\python.url')
> s.TargetPath='www.python.org'
> s.Save()
> 
>   hth
>       Roger
> 

Thanks Roger - that works a treat :)

-- 
Richard


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct  8 18:25:23 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:25:23 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8ohgk1p9s6pgaq8d67bgpjg7i8i22ngiul@4ax.com>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:57:13 -0000, gordonb.u09l7 at burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote or quoted :

>
>HTML enables a heck of a lot of problems:  "web bugs" in email,
>links to fake sites that appear as real ones in what shows up
>on the screen, Javascript viruses, denial-of-service attacks
>(pages that open two windows when you close one), etc.

Just how long do you want to stall evolution?  Do you imagine people
200 years from now will be still be using pure ASCII text unable to
find a solution to JavaScript viruses (turn off JS), pop-up( disable
popups) etc.?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From http  Mon Oct 10 04:57:24 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 01:57:24 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ville Voipio <vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi> writes:
> Goes without saying. But I would like to be confident (or as
> confident as possible) that all bugs are mine. If I use plain
> C, I think this is the case. Of course, bad memory management
> in the underlying platform will wreak havoc. I am planning to
> use Linux 2.4.somethingnew as the OS kernel, and there I have
> not experienced too many problems before.

You might be better off with a 2.6 series kernel.  If you use Python
conservatively (be careful with the most advanced features, and don't
stress anything too hard) you should be ok.  Python works pretty well
if you use it the way the implementers expected you to.  Its
shortcomings are when you try to press it to its limits.

You do want reliable hardware with ECC and all that, maybe with multiple
servers and automatic failover.  This site might be of interest:

  http://www.linux-ha.org/


From noone at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  3 10:01:37 2005
From: noone at hotmail.com (spiffo)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:01:37 -0500
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
Message-ID: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>

The Main Issue in a nutshell

I am a corporate developer, working for a single company. Got a new project
coming up and wondering if I should stay with Python for this new, fairly
large project, are jump back on the 'safe' M$ bandwagon using a dot net
language? Cross platform is NOT an issue, but COMPLETE control/compatability
with MsSql Server (current and future versions) certainly is.

Quick History

Started out 10+ yrs ago using FoxPro, upgrading as Fox did, was a good
system but never really loved it due to many factors I won't get into now.

Did alot of work in Delphi, once version 5 came out... really loved it for
awhile. Began using MS SQL server as database.

Had a HUGE re-write of an old dos-based database system to do, did alot of
work on it in Delphi 7, but really began to have issues with Delphi, even
tho alot of it is fantastic.

As I was working on the re-write, had another smaller system to work up, so
I was going to have to do both at once... I began to look around for another
language as was having issues with Delphi, very long story short, I became
enthralled with Python, and using it, with wxWindows to write the interface,
and adodbapi.py to communicate with ms sql server, I did the other smaller
system.

To my big surprise, within a short time where I wrote a wrapper class that
emulated working with the Delphi ado record set object, around the very nice
(but somewhat limited) adodbapi.py module. For the windows user interface, I
also learned how to create wx resource files with the stock resource editor
and connect the controls to code. And using a free text editor (pspad) I was
MORE PRODUCTIVE than with the super-duper point and click visual Delphi.

Ok, I got the small system done very quickly, and dumped my problematic
delphi version of the big system, and re-worked it up with my thrown
together, totally free Python package, and I swear, had it finished before I
would have if I had stayed with the Delphi version.

Ok, time goes by, the big system continues to get improved etc... now all of
a sudden, the smaller system needs to grow big time, as it has morphed and
they need all these new things.

THE DILEMMA

Ok, I LOVE python, so that is not the issue, but, I am getting very worried
about it's growth. I recently re-visted the web looking at alot of projects
I assumed would be up and running by now from over a year ago, such as Boa
Constructor, Iron Python etc... it seems all these projects get started, but
never finished.

Also, more and more I need *complete* control of ms sql from my apps, which
is simply not available from the adodbapi module I got off the internet...
also, ms sql 2005 is getting ready to come out... what if the guy that wrote
adodbapi.py does not feel like upgrading it so it even works with MS SQL
SERVER 2005? Yeesh... you get the picture...

So, wondering if anyone else is having these concerns or not, and if not,
why etc... Any input appreciated.

Python lover, but worried,
diego








From christian.siegl at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 10:57:33 2005
From: christian.siegl at gmail.com (christian.siegl at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 07:57:33 -0700
Subject: How to delete yourself????
In-Reply-To: <1129301105.048023.36430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129299904.130287.287680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129301105.048023.36430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129301853.032055.54010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

well, of course these classes are dummies..... in my application they
have of course more functionality.... they shall only describe the
problem here....

one certain event which could appear is, that the child wants to delete
itself by calling self.deleteMe() somewhere in one of the member
functions (which are not listed here)

i mean it is not the point, that this does not work (it works indeed)
but is this nice code and are there different ways to do this???

chris



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 12:04:43 2005
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:04:43 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xr7aoskvk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2014.1129223261.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7aoskvk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1129305883.643614.146360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> This correctly describes difficulties of using a copying GC in
> CPython.  Note that the Boehm GC is mark-and-sweep.  As Alex mentions,
> that usually means there's a pause every so often while the GC scans
> the entire heap, touching all data both live and dead (maybe the Boehm
> GC got around this somehow).

>From the docs:

void GC_enable_incremental(void)
Cause the garbage collector to perform a small amount of work every few
invocations of GC_MALLOC or the like, instead of performing an entire
collection at once. This is likely to increase total running time. It
will improve response on a platform that either has suitable support in
the garbage collector (Linux and most Unix versions, win32 if the
collector was suitably built) or if "stubborn" allocation is used (see
gc.h).



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Oct 25 01:09:48 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:09:48 -0700
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200510242209.48409.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Oops. Answered before I finished reading the question.

James

On Monday 24 October 2005 19:53, Ron Adam wrote:
> James Stroud wrote:
> > Here it goes with a little less overhead:
> >
> >
> > py> class namespace:
> > ...   def __init__(self, adict):
> > ...     self.__dict__.update(adict)
> > ...
> > py> n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
> > py> n.bob
> > 1
> > py> n.ted
> > 3
> >
> > James
>
> But it's not a dictionary anymore so you can't use it in the same places
> you would use a dictionary.
>
>        foo(**n)
>
> Would raise an error.
>
> So I couldn't do:
>
>     def foo(**kwds):
>        kwds = namespace(kwds)
>        kwds.bob = 3
>        kwds.alice = 5
>        ...
>        bar(**kwds)     #<--- do something with changed items
>
> Ron
>
> > On Monday 24 October 2005 19:06, Ron Adam wrote:
> >>Hi, I found the following to be a useful way to access arguments after
> >>they are passed to a function that collects them with **kwds.
> >>
> >>
> >>     class namespace(dict):
> >>         def __getattr__(self, name):
> >>             return self.__getitem__(name)
> >>         def __setattr__(self, name, value):
> >>             self.__setitem__(name, value)
> >>         def __delattr__(self, name):
> >>             self.__delitem__(name)
> >>
> >>     def foo(**kwds):
> >>	kwds = namespace(kwds)
> >>	print kwds.color, kwds.size, kwds.shape  etc....
> >>
> >>     foo( color='red', size='large', shape='ball', .... etc..)
> >>
> >>
> >>It just seems awkward to have to use "string keys" in this situation.
> >>This is easy and still retains the dictionary so it can be modified and
> >>passed to another function or method as kwds again.
> >>
> >>Any thoughts?  Any better way to do this?
> >>
> >>Cheers, Ron

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Wed Oct 26 10:55:37 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:55:37 -0400
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>", self.donothing)
	not working
In-Reply-To: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djo5df$12m$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

shannonl wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> For some reason this bind is calling the donothing function, like it
> should, but is then allowing the text to be inserted into the Text
> widget.
[...]
> This bind does work on the text widget as a whole, but on a individual
> tag, it does not.

You're trying to prevent a user from editing the text -within- a single 
tag.  Does Tk even support this?

Is your bind-applied-to-tag even firing, when the user presses a key 
within a tag?


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 30 20:37:14 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:37:14 -0500
Subject: Controlling output using print with format string
References: <3sl7mnFordm3U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <86fyqibh6d.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Watson <pwatson at redlinepy.com> writes:

> It is clear that just using 'print' with variable names is relatively
> uncontrollable.  However, I thought that using a format string would
> reign the problem in and give the desired output.
>
> Must I resort to sys.stdout.write() to control output?

No. You can control the output of print to whatever degree you want -
just convert the printed objects to strings by hand before printing
them.

> $ python
> Python 2.4.1 (#1, Jul 19 2005, 14:16:43)
> [GCC 4.0.0 20050519 (Red Hat 4.0.0-8)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> s = 'now is the time'
>  >>> for c in s:
> ...     print c,
> ...
> n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e
>  >>> for c in s:
> ...     print "%c" % (c),
> ...
> n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e
>  >>> for c in s:
> ...     print "%1c" % (c),
> ...
> n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e

On the other hand, you can't keep print from putting a space between
all the objects it prints. So you have to convert all the objects into
a single string before printing that string.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From benji at benjiyork.com  Sat Oct  1 21:57:16 2005
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:57:16 -0400
Subject: How is wxWindows related to Python?
In-Reply-To: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <433F3E7C.1070800@benjiyork.com>

Sathyaish wrote:
> However, I do not understand its correlation with Python. The
> documentation page says, "wxWindows 2.4.2: A portable C++ and Python
> GUI toolkit." So, my question is, "How is wxWindows related to Python?"

"Pure" wxWindows (actually it's been renamed wxWidgets at the demand of 
Microsoft) is for C++.  You're looking for wxPython: http://wxpython.org/
--
Benji York





From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 17:18:00 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:18:00 -0500
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <di94lb$jd7$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <434779F1.9080508@designaproduct.biz>
	<20051008172825.77615.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<di94lb$jd7$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510101618.00756.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 08 October 2005 01:54 pm, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > Yes, I would like to know how many internal string operations are done inside
> > the Python interpreter.
> 
> when you're doing what?
> 
> how do you define "internal string operations", btw?

He's got to be talking about runtime name-binding.  In
other words, when you refer to:

a.spam

the Python interpreter actually knows you labeled that attribute 'spam',
and the string is stored in a.__dict__ , so you can also access it as

getattr(a, 'spam')

etc.

I'm pretty sure this is what string "internment" is for, though, and
that such lookups are optimized out pretty much whenever possible.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From gene.tani at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 20:14:21 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 17:14:21 -0700
Subject: Python for search engine development
In-Reply-To: <86u0fzlcah.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1128288465.580210.35460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86u0fzlcah.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128298461.138698.282100@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6e6dc84e68e25039/1436d0b3466e262a?q=lucene&rnum=1#1436d0b3466e262a

Mike Meyer wrote:
> "corebump" <m.yalcin at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > hi everybody,
> > i planinng develop a search engine and i think using the python. Python
> > performance is enough this project?
>
> If you're going to do the heavy lifting in Python, maybe. It depends
> on what you're going to search, and the performance requirements for a
> search.
>
> On the other hand, if you use a Python wrapper around a full-text
> search facility, so that python finds documents, takes queries and
> formats results for the user, it should be just fine.
>
>         <mike
> --
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
> Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.



From http  Tue Oct  4 17:20:17 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 14:20:17 -0700
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xbr25xbot.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<11k5qpiri213s59@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xslvhj7xq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> > In the nomenclature of some of these applications, that kind
> > of transfer is called a client to client connection.  Both
> > ends are called clients.
> 
> IIRC, we were talking about TCP sockets.

Yes, but if the person was talking about using TCPs sockets in a chat
application, they may have been using chat terminology rather than TCP
terminology.  In a typical chat app, a zillion clients all talk
through TCP to a central server, which is like a phone switch.  That
lets Alice connect to the server and immediately see if Bob is online
and what Bob's (possibly dynamic) IP address is.  If Alice wants to
send Bob a file, she opens a TCP connection directly to Bob.  That's
called a client to client connection because Alice and Bob are both
clients.

So, there's a reasonable application for wanting to open a listener
port without binding any specific port number.  Alice would just ask
her OS to assign her a port (say it assigns 23789) and listen on it,
instead of having to contend with other apps on the same IP for some
specific port number.  Then she'd send a message through the chat
server asking Bob to connect to port 23789 on her machine.

I'm not sure if there's a way to do this.  Do you happen to know?


From pu at pmville.com  Tue Oct 25 03:21:59 2005
From: pu at pmville.com (Ask)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:21:59 +1000
Subject: Hi All - Newby 
Message-ID: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>

G'day All,

Just thought I'd drop in and say hi. I'm new to Python, but old to software 
development.

Python is one of the languages used in my new job, so I've just bought a 
book, read it, and downloaded Python; It's pretty good isn't it? It's 
particularly handy being able top run the same bytecode on different 
platforms.

I found a link to this newsgroup, downloaded 1000 messages, and have only 
put one user in my twit filter so hopefully it'll be a good resource!

I must admit to much confusion regarding some of the basics, but I'm sure 
time, reading, and good advice will get rid of that. at this stage, it's 
just working through some examples and getting my head around things. As an 
example, if I create a window, I've been unable to force it to be a certain 
size, and put a button (widget) at (say) 20,40 (x & y). Is window formatting 
possible?

Thanks and I'm sure to be reading your posts soon.

Pauly







From richie at entrian.com  Wed Oct  5 06:08:34 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:08:34 +0100
Subject: Excel library with unicode support
In-Reply-To: <1128463115.969232.146590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128463115.969232.146590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9d97k1pgv4rqsjpr6j59e1t68m85obpvv3@4ax.com>


[Mike]
> Is there a python library, that is able to create Excel files with
> unicode characters.

pyExcelerator claims to do this, but I've never used it.

  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyexcelerator/

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 18:47:31 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:47:31 +0100
Subject: wxListbook layout problem
In-Reply-To: <435e8045$0$20495$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <1130256419.199548.313950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<435e8045$0$20495$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <djmcm3$dq9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andrea Gavana wrote:
> Hello Kay,
> 
> 
>>Core Windows/Contols folder, replace there wx.LB_DEFAULT by wx.LB_RIGHT
>>and resize the main window the listbox on the right side moves into the
>>area of colored panel. This is a surprise to say the least. Has anyone
>>of the GUI specialists an idea how to fix this?
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's a bug, at least on XP. I have tried almost everything (binding
> the wx.EVT_SIZE and calling refresh, using a sizer, binding the parent
> wx.EVT_SIZE) to no avail... probably there is a solution, but at the moment
> I am unable to find it...
> I would suggest to fill a bug report on this on the wxPython sourceforge bug
> tracker, or whatever it is its name. You could also post this on the
> wxPython mailing list.
> 
> This is WinXP, Python 2.4.1, wxPython 2.6.1.1 prerelease.
> 
> Andrea.
> 
As a further data point I have WinXP SP2, Python 2.4.1 and wxPython 
2.5.3.1 Unicode, and everything appears to work fine. So if it's a bug 
it's a recent one.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Mon Oct 10 10:48:14 2005
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:48:14 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "Britishaccent"...
In-Reply-To: <4347d9ed.0@entanet>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>	<di5vs8$dk1$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>	<4346c5a8.0@entanet>
	<mailman.1749.1128764647.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4347d9ed.0@entanet>
Message-ID: <diduvf$7rj$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Duncan Smith wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>There are special rules for the monarchs, who are expected to refer to
>>themselves in the first person plural.
>>
> 
> Yes, although I'm not actually sure where the 'royal we' comes from; 

I was under the (probably misinformed) impression that since the 
King/Queen is the representative of the entire nation, they use the 
first person plural, because when they speak they speak for the all the 
(multiple) people in the land. I'm unaware of what term a monarch uses 
in a private, rather than public, context. (Never having had the 
opportunity to drink a pint with Lizzie, Chuck, and Cammie. :)


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Tue Oct 11 22:44:22 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:44:22 -0700
Subject: Profiling Python using gprof
In-Reply-To: <20051011221135.3188.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051011221135.3188.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051012024422.GA4541@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 11, Dave wrote:
> I would like to profile a Python program using gprof. I already
> rebuilt Python with CC="gcc -pg" ./configure. So, I should be able to
> use gprof. How do I do that? Should I first run Python and then gprof?
> What are the steps?

Note that it is much more common to use Python's profiling facilities to
"profile a Python program".  So if you really want to profile the
interpreter running your modules, then go ahead with gprof and follow
Jeff's advice; otherwise see
<http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/profile.html>.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From thetau at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 15:06:55 2005
From: thetau at gmail.com (Tau)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 12:06:55 -0700
Subject: mod_python works as standalone, does not as service (Windows XP)
Message-ID: <1128280015.319331.50750@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

My mod_python 3.1.4 installation works when Apache 2.0.54 is run in
standalone mode (apache -k standalone) but refuses to operate when run
as a service (apache -k restart).

Logs yield the usual and well-known "make_obcallback: could not import
mod_python.apache" error. I have tried PYTHONHOME, LoadFile
python24.dll (2.4.2) with no result.

I have read *all* threads about make_obcallback that google found.
What's even weirder I had this module working yesterday but had to make
apache cleanup (fresh installation) and now this is completely stuck. I
remember that last time I just had to reinstall Apache over existing
mod_python files to get it working but this time it just pointless.

I thank everyone who understand differences between standalone and
service modes of Apache better than I do.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct  9 08:53:40 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:53:40 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <43490d16$0$6485$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43490d16$0$6485$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3qsi6lFgk1ndU1@uni-berlin.de>

> There's something i don't understand :
> 
> I've posted the original message you reply to yesterday, but I still 
> cannot see it in comp.lang.python, while I can see your reply, and my 
> reply to your reply.
> 
> I tried with two different providers to get the messages, but with the 
> same result.
> 
> Is it possible that this msg could have been throwned away by moderators 
> of this list ?? But in this case, you wouldn't have been able to read it...

It can be seen on gmane, but not with my news-reader.

Apart from that, I don't think your proposal does any good - it is ugly 
(or at least not less ugly than the things you want to fix) and confuses 
the reader because of the colliding use of . for attribute access.

E.g.  your own example

f(g(h(j(x)))

becomes

x.(j(?)).(h(?)).(g(?)).(h(?))

Not x.(j).(h).(g).(h), as you told us. And certainly way uglier than the 
above way of doing. Besides, you reasoning by comparing with the 
mathematical o-operator is misleading: the operator creates a new 
function, that will apply it's parametesr (e.g. f and g) after each 
other to the argument. Paul Rubin asked for ways to do that, and has 
been shown some ways to do so - actually not overly nice looking, but 
they'd allow for

(f * g * h)(x)

which beats your solution on readability, too :)


Overall, it tries to obfuscate code - by creating perl-like "magic" 
variables. And that is not what Python is known for.

I too have some convoluted constructs as your html-joining example. But 
if the get too complicated, replacing them by some explicit lines is 
better than trying to cough up a scheme that makes them work.

Regards,

Diez


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 02:19:15 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 08:19:15 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <diacp5$41k$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> In other words, what is the difference between a "scripting language"
> and a "programming language".

here's one useful way to look at things:

    "Unlike mainstream component programming, scripts usually
    do not introduce new components but simply "wire" existing
    ones. Scripts can be seen as introducing behavior but no
    new state. /.../ Of course, there is nothing to stop a
    "scripting" language from introducing persistent state -- it
    then simply turns into a normal programming language."

        -- Clemens Szyperski, in "Component Software":

</F>





From googmeister at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 14:26:22 2005
From: googmeister at gmail.com (Googmeister)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 11:26:22 -0700
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130351182.476810.210140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Xah Lee wrote:
> in some online documentations, for examples:
>
> http://perldoc.perl.org/perlref.html
> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-17.html
> http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellDemo
>
> the codes are syntax colored.
>
> Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?

I've used GNU Source-highlight with success.

    http://www.gnu.org/software/src-highlite/source-highlight.html



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 15 11:58:05 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:58:05 -0400
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>

dcrespo wrote:
> How can I get a raised exception from other thread that is in an
> imported module?

Define what "get" means for your purposes.  It appears that you mean you 
want to catch the exception, but in the thread which launched the other 
thread in the first place.  If that's true, please show where you would 
expect to catch this exception, given that when you start the thread, 
the main thread continues running and might even finish before the other 
thread finishes.

> thread = programB.MakeThread()
> thread.start()
...
# later code which might have completed by the time the thread finishes
...

Are you looking, for example, for some kind of
thread.waitUntilCompletionAndReRaiseExceptions() method?

-Peter


From Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 14:06:25 2005
From: Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?S=E9bastien_Boisg=E9rault?=)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 11:06:25 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
In-Reply-To: <20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1128794785.152776.116370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Simulink is a framework widely used by the control engineers ...
It is not *perfect* but the ODEs piece is probably the best
part of the simulator. Why were you not convinced ?

You may also have a look at Scicos and Ptolemy II. These
simulators are open-source ... but not based on Python.

Cheers,

SB





Nicolas Pernetty a ?crit :

> Hello Phil,
>
> Yes I have considered Octave. In fact I'm already using Matlab and
> decided to 'reject' it for Python + Numeric/numarray + SciPy because I
> think you could do more in Python and in more simple ways.
>
> Problem is that neither Octave, Matlab and Python offer today a
> framework to build continuous system simulator (in fact Matlab with
> Simulink and SimMechanics, do propose, but I was not convinced at all).
>
> Regards,
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com wrote :
>
> > Nicholas,
> >
> > Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe it can talk
> > to Python.
> > Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including having ODE
> > solvers. I have successfully used it to model and simulate simple
> > systems. Complex system would be easy to model as well, provided that
> > you model your dynamic elements with (systems of) differential
> > equations.
> >



From robin at reportlab.com  Tue Oct 11 10:03:14 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:03:14 +0100
Subject: strange import error with Python-2.4.1
In-Reply-To: <dig5ct$hb5$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <434B8EDF.3060905@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>	<434B9602.9070001@holdenweb.com>
	<dig5ct$hb5$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <434BC622.5070907@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can I ask if you are specifying a source encoding in your file with a
>>pragma (?) like
>>
>># -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
>>
>>I've noticed what appear to be spurious syntax errors from time to time
>>on such files, and have been attempting to debug the problem for some
>>time without any apparent success.
> 
> 
> http://www.python.org/sf/1175396
> 
> </F> 

thanks that looks like it, the __init__.py had


# -*- coding: cp1252 -*-

at the start.
-- 
Robin Becker



From jelleferinga at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 12:43:58 2005
From: jelleferinga at gmail.com (jelle)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:43:58 -0700
Subject: Modules and Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <1129826115.460380.78210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2314.1129822356.509.python-list@python.org>
	<FuWdnZ5uIP6BWcreRVn-hg@comcast.com>
	<1129826115.460380.78210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129826638.004801.118360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ooops, Larry, forgive me being to overhauled here:
Actually self.RS = RS does not make the RS object available in the
module, Steve's method does however.

-Jelle



From dberlin at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 07:38:20 2005
From: dberlin at gmail.com (dberlin at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 04:38:20 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <slrndkv547.brdr.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndkv547.brdr.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <1129289900.730444.106540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I find wxPython to pro fill my GUI needs from python in a pretty good
way.
To show off it's capabilities - I am building a GUI editor and it
currently converts from windows forms (visual studio c# forms) to
wxPython code.
When I started programming this editor I thought I'd have major
incompatibility problems, thinking wxPython is extremely weaker than
the windows forms.
However, coding the conversion between the two proved wxPython to be
highly capable.
BTW, this GUI editor can be found here:
http://farpy.holev.com

I believe this also provides an answer to gsteff's post about not
having a normal GUI editor.



From darkpaladin79 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 21:32:05 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at gmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:32:05 -0400
Subject: Newbie needs help. Setting PYTHONDOCS to read HTML.
In-Reply-To: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>
References: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <17d4ae400510101832o6a562e97kae9bae99951f6c4d@mail.gmail.com>

You can still use it, but you can't use the help. I don't know but this has
always been better than the help for me! =D

--
-Ivan
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From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Sat Oct  1 14:18:51 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 22:18:51 +0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and 
	public?
In-Reply-To: <87y85efbod.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.1081.1127913
	236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhed0c
	$	uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at> <7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b 7n	$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhfs9k$mgq$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.29.14.16.01.588394@REMOVET HIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1142.1128003951.509.python-list@python.org> <dhgvob
	$h7g$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<slrndjpp87.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <dhjnst$
	2ha$1@news.doit.wisc.edu> <433D6810.1080807@holdenweb.com>
	<87y85efbod.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20051001221851.6a9d2296.jk@ospaz.ru>

On 30 Sep 2005 22:11:46 +0000
John J. Lee wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> > That would make a good Onion (www.TheOnion.com) headline: "Users 
> > Discover Computer Security Conflicts with Desire for Convenience"
> 
> :-) The Onion, yay.
> 
> Area Man Forgets Work Password, Will Employ Post-It Notes in Future

Sure. It would be fun to read something about "Consenting Adults" there,
too.

-- 
jk


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 07:06:26 2005
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 04:06:26 -0700
Subject: ANN: ConfigObj 4.0.0 Final and Pythonutils 0.2.3
Message-ID: <1129633586.301398.273220@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

ConfigObj 4.0.0 final and Pythonutils 0.2.3 have just hit the streets.

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/configobj.html
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/pythonutils.html

They are both pure Python modules - the source distributions include
full documentation, which is also online.

What's New ?
============

ConfigObj 4.0.0 final has two bugfixes.
Using ``setdefault`` to create a new section would return a reference
to the dictionary you passed in - not the new section.
Also fixed a trivial bug in ``write`` (wouldn't have affected anyone).

Pythonutils 0.2.3 is updated to include the ConfigObj 4.0.0 final and
cgiutils 0.3.3

ConfigObj is now marked stable. (But caveat emptor :-)

What is ConfigObj ?
===================

ConfigObj is a simple but powerful config file reader and writer: an
*ini file round tripper*. Its main feature is that it is very easy to
use, with a straightforward programmer's interface and a simple syntax
for config files. It has lots of other features though :

* Nested sections (subsections), to any level
* List values
* Multiple line values
* String interpolation (substitution)
* Integrated with a powerful validation system

    - including automatic type checking/conversion
    - repeated sections
    - and allowing default values

* All comments in the file are preserved
* The order of keys/sections is preserved
* No external dependencies

What is Pythonutils ?
=====================

The Voidspace Pythonutils package is a simple way of installing the
Voidspace collection of modules. Several of the Voidspace Projects
depend on these modules. They are also useful in their own right of
course. They are primarily general utility modules that simplify common
programming tasks in Python.

These are currently :

* ConfigObj - simple config file handling
* validate - validation and type conversion system
* listquote - string to list conversion
* StandOut - simple logging and output control object
* pathutils - for working with paths and files
* cgiutils - cgi helpers (and functions for sending emails etc)
* urlpath - functions for handling URLs
* odict - Ordered Dictionary Class

All the best,

Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 05:24:19 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:24:19 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <om61m1p2tfogeq8fvtt2mucrtstq3d5b2h@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:13:39 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote, quoted or
indirectly quoted someone who said :

>To put this in perspective, IBM's salespeople made much nastier
>threats in their heyday.  Dick Toewes, head of Inland Natural Gas, was
>in charge of a tender for a new mainframe to do billing.  I was
>working on the Univac bid at the time.  He said that the IBM salesman
>said to him, "We know you have an eight year old little girl.  We know
>she walks along X street every day on her way to school.  It would be
>a terrible thing if somebody hurt her."

The tactic Univac/Burroughs/Prime used, at least for big sales, was
for example invite the potential customer to view some installation to
talk to a satisfied client about how they were using their gear. There
might be a convenient client in say ... Las Vegas.

The game then became to get the client to get drunk and laid and do
crazy things to help very uptight people cut loose.

On one of these trips, we ran through fields chasing fireflies.


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 30 17:36:47 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:36:47 GMT
Subject: How do I sort these?
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43642b1b.1315475223@news.oz.net>
	<dk1v9u$7in$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <43654640.1391560498@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:13:42 +0100, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
[...]
>> Now select from the second list, by first-element position correspondence:
>>  >>> [second[t[1]] for t in sorted((f,i) for i,f in enumerate(first))]
>>  ['E', 'D', 'C', 'B', 'A', 'J', 'I', 'H', 'G', 'F']
>> 
>> Which did the OP really want? ;-)
>
>I don't know, but there certainly is no subtle requirement to not provide
>the key argument:
>
>>>> import operator
>>>> first = [2]*5 + [1]*5
>>>> second = list(reversed("ABCDEFGHIJ"))
>>>> [s for f, s in sorted(zip(first, second))]
>['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'F', 'G', 'H', 'I', 'J']
>>>> [s for f, s in sorted(zip(first, second), key=operator.itemgetter(0))]
>['E', 'D', 'C', 'B', 'A', 'J', 'I', 'H', 'G', 'F']
>
D'oh yeah, forgot about key ;-/ (and this kind of problem probably at least
partly motivated its introduction, so it should have jumped to mind).
Thanks, your version is much cleaner ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From nil at dev.nul  Sun Oct 16 01:47:17 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:47:17 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:17:36 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:
>
>>>> I'd prefer a (however) rough characterization
>>>> of computational complexity in terms of Big-Oh
>>>> (or Big-whatever) *anytime* to marketing-type
>>>> characterizations like this one...
>>>
>>> Oh how naive.
>>
>> Why is it that even computer science undergrads
>> are required to learn the basics of Big-Oh and
>> all that?
>
> So that they know how to correctly interpret what Big O notation means,
> instead of misinterpreting it. Big O notation doesn't tell you everything
> you need to know to predict the behaviour of an algorithm.

Well, that's right. I couldn't agree more:
it doesn't tell you *everything* but it does
tell you *something*.  And that *something*
is good to have.

> It doesn't even tell you most of what you need to know about its
> behaviour.
> Only actual *measurement* will tell you what you need to know.

Well, that's where you err: Testing doesn't
tell you everything *either*. You need *both*:
a reasonable theory *and* experimental data...
If theory and experimental data disagree,
we would want to take a closer look on both,
the theory (which may be mistaken or inadequate)
*and* the experiment (which may be inadequate or
just plain botched as well).

> Perhaps you should actually sit down and look at the assumptions,
> simplifications, short-cuts and trade-offs that computer scientists make
> when they estimate an algorithm's Big O behaviour. It might shock you out
> of your faith that Big O is the be all and end all of algorithm planning.
>
> For all but the simplest algorithm, it is impractical to actually count
> all the operations -- and even if you did, the knowledge wouldn't help
> you, because you don't know how long each operation takes to get executed.
> That is platform specific.
>
> So you simplify. You pretend that paging never happens. That memory
> allocations take zero time. That set up and removal of data structures
> take insignificant time. That if there is an N**2 term, it always swamps
> an N term. You assume that code performance is independent of the CPUs.
> You assume that some operations (e.g. comparisons) take no time, and
> others (e.g. moving data) are expensive.
>
> Those assumptions sometimes are wildly wrong. I've been seriously bitten
> following text book algorithms written for C and Pascal: they assume that
> comparisons are cheap and swapping elements are expensive. But in Python,
> swapping elements is cheap and comparisons are expensive, because of all
> the heavy object-oriented machinery used. Your classic text book algorithm
> is not guaranteed to survive contact with the real world: you have to try
> it and see.

Still: the expensiveness of those operations (such
as swapping elements vs. comparisons) will only
affect the constant of proportionality, not the
asymptotic behavior of the algorithm. Sooner or
later the part of your program that has the
worst asymptotic behavior will determine speed
(or memory requirements) of your program.

> Given all the assumptions, it is a wonder that Big O
> estimates are ever useful, not that they sometimes
> are misleading.
>
> [snip]
>>> The marketing department says: "It's O(N), so it is blindingly fast."
>>
>> I might as well interpret "blindingly fast" as meaning O(1). - Why not?
>>   Surely marketing might also have reasoned like
>> this: "It's O(1), so its blindingly fast". But I *want*, nay, I *must*
>> know whether it is O(N) or O(1).
>
> You might _want_, but you don't _need_ to know which it is, not in every
> case. In general, there are many circumstances where it makes no
> sense to worry about Big O behaviour. What's your expected data look like?
> If your data never gets above N=2, then who cares whether it is O(1)=1,
> O(N)=2, O(N**2)=4 or O(2**N)=2? They are all about as fast.
>
> Even bubble sort will sort a three element list fast enough -- and
> probably faster than more complicated sorts. Why spend all the time
> setting up the machinery for a merge sort for three elements?

Since you have relapsed into a fit of mere polemics,
I assume to have made my point as regards marketing
type characterizations of algorithms ("blazingly
fast") vs. measures, however rough, of asymptotic
complexity measures, like Big-Oh. - Which really
was the root of this sub-thread that went like this:

..>> To take the heat out of the discussion:
.. >> sets are blazingly fast.

.. >  I'd prefer a (however) rough characterization
.. > of computational complexity in terms of Big-Oh
.. > (or Big-whatever) *anytime* to marketing-type
.. > characterizations like this one...

> [snip]
>
>>> Big O notation is practically useless for judging how fast a single
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> algorithm will be, or how one algorithm compares to another.
>>
>> That's why Knuth liked it so much?
>> That's why Aho, Hopcroft and Ullman liked it so much? That's why Gonnet
>> and Baeza-Yates liked it so much?
>
> Two reasons: it is useful for telling you how a single algorithm will
> scale as the input increases, just as I said.

Curiously, just a few lines before writing this,
you have polemically denied any "practical" use
for Big-Oh notation.

> And, unlike more accurate ways of calculating the speed of an algorithm
> from first principles, it is actually possible to do Big O calculations.

Right. It's a compromise: being somewhat precise
- without getting bogged down trying to solve major
combinatorial research problems...

> No doubt the state of the art of algorithm measurements has advanced since
> I was an undergraduate, but certain fundamental facts remain: in order to
> calculate that Big O, you have to close your eyes to all the realities
> of practical code execution, and only consider an idealised calculation.

That's right. Nothing stops you from then opening
your eyes and testing some code, of course. *But*
always try to relate what you see there with what
theoretical grasp of the situation you have.
If experimental data and theory *disagree*: try to
fix the experiment and/or the theory.

> Even when your calculation gives you constants of proportionality and
> other coefficients, Big O notation demands you throw that information
> away.
>
> But by doing so, you lose valuable information. An O(N**2) algorithm that
> scales like 1e-6 * N**2 will be faster than an O(N) algorithm that scales
> as 1e6 * N, until N reaches one million million. By tossing away those
> coefficients, you wrongly expect the first algorithm to be slower than the
> second, and choose the wrong algorithm.
>
>>> It is only useful for telling you how a single algorithm will scale as
>>> the input increases.
>>
>> And that's really very useful information indeed.
>
> Yes it is. Did I ever say it wasn't?

Well yes, by the way you attacked Big-Oh notation
as "practically useless" (see above) I assumed you
did.

>> Since, given such
>> information for the basic data types and operations, as implemented by
>> the language and its standard libraries, I stand a real chance of being
>> able to determine the computational complexity of the
>> *particular*combination* of data types and algorithms of my own small
>> utility or of a critical piece of my wonderful and large application, on
>> which the future of my company depends, with some confidence and
>> accuracy.
>
> Yes, zero is a real chance.
>
>
> [snip]
>
>>> As for sets, they are based on dicts, which are effectively hash
>>> tables. Hash tables are O(1), unless there are collisions,
>>
>> Depending on the "load factor" of the hash tables. So we would want to
>> ask, if we have very large lists indeed, how much space needs to be
>> invested to keep the load factor so low that we can say that the
>> membership test is O(1).
>
> And knowing that hash tables are O(1) will not tell you that, will it?
>
> There is only one practical way of telling: do the experiment. Keep
> loading up that hash table until you start getting lots of collisions.
>
>> Do A-B and A&B have to walk the entire hash
>> table (which must be larger than the sets, because of a load factor <
>> 1)? Also: the conversion of lists to sets needs the insertion of N
>> elements into those hash tables. That alone already makes the overall
>> algorithm *at*least* O(N). So forget about O(log N).
>
> Yes, inserting N items into a hash table takes at least N inserts. But if
> those inserts are fast enough, you won't even notice the time it takes to
> do it, compared to the rest of your algorithm. In many algorithms, you
> don't even care about the time it takes to put items in your hash table,
> because that isn't part of the problem you are trying to solve.
>
> So in real, practical sense, it may be that your algorithm gets dominated
> by the O(log N) term even though there is technically an O(N) term in
> there. Are Python dicts like that? I have no idea. But I know how to find
> out: choose a problem domain I care about ("dicts with less than one
> million items") and do the experiment.
>
>
>>> in which case the more
>>> common algorithms degenerate to O(N).
>>
>> So here, indeed, we have the kind of reasoning that one ought to be able
>> to deliver, based on what's in the Python documentation. Luckily, you
>> have that kind the knowledge of both, how sets are implemented and what
>> Big-Oh attaches to the hash table operation of "look up".
>>   In order to *enable* SUCH reasoning for *everyone*,
>> starting from the module interface documentation only, one clearly needs
>> something along the lines that I was suggesting...
>
> I don't object to having that Big O information available, except
> insofar as it can be misleading, but I take issue with your position that
> such information is necessary.

*Blindly* testing, that is, testing *without* being
able to *relate* the outcomes of those tests (even
the *design* of those tests) to some suitably
simplified but not at all completely nonsensical
theory (via Big-Oh notation, for example), is *not*
really good enough.

>>> Now run the test code:
>>>
>>> py> test_Order()
>>> N = 1        0.000219106674194
>>> N = 10       0.000135183334351
>>
>> Curious: N=10 takes less time than N=1?
>
> Yes, funny how real-world results aren't as clean and neat as they are in
> theory. There are those awkward assumptions coming to bite you again. I've
> done two additional tests, and get:
>
> N = 1        0.000085043907166
> N = 10       0.000106656551361
>
> N = 1        0.000497949123383
> N = 10       0.000124049186707
>
> Remember, these results are averaged over twenty trials. So why it is
> quicker to do work with sets of size 10 than sets of size 1? Big O
> notation will never tell you, because it ignores the implementation
> details that really make a difference.
>
>
>
>>> N = 100      0.000481128692627
>>
>> Why do we have such a comparatively large jump here, from N=100 to
>> N=1000? Did hash tables overflow during conversion or something like
>> that?
>
> Who knows? Maybe Python was doing some garbage collection the first time I
> run it. I've modified my code to print a scale factor, and here is another
> run:
>
> N = 1        0.00113509893417
> N = 10       0.000106143951416 (x 0.093511)
> N = 100      0.00265134572983 (x 24.978774)
> N = 1000     0.0057701587677 (x 2.176313)
> N = 10000    0.0551437973976 (x 9.556721)
> N = 100000   0.668345856667 (x 12.120055)
> N = 1000000  8.6285964489 (x 12.910376)
>
> An increase from N=1 to 1000000 (that's a factor of one million) leads to
> an increase in execution time of about 7600.
>
> You will notice that the individual numbers vary significantly from trial
> to trial, but the over-all pattern is surprisingly consistent.
>
>
>>> N = 1000     0.0173740386963
>>> N = 10000    0.103679180145
>>> N = 100000   0.655336141586
>>> N = 1000000  8.12827801704
>>
>> Doesn't look quite O(n). Not yet...
>
> No it doesn't.
>
>>
>>> In my humble opinion, that's not bad behaviour. It looks O(log N) to
>>> me,
>
> That's a mistake -- it is nowhere near O(log N). My bad. Closer to
> O(sqrt N), if anything.
>
>
>> How could that be? *Every* element of A and B must touched, if only to
>> be copied: that can't make it O(log(N)).
>
> And, no doubt, if you had *really enormous* lists, oh, I don't know, maybe
> a trillion items, you would see that O(N) behaviour. But until then, the
> overall performance is dominated by the smaller-order terms with larger
> coefficients.
>
>
>> Also, the conversion of lists
>> to sets must be at least O(N). And N isn't the right measure anyway. It
>> would probably have to be in terms of |A| and |B|. For example, if |A|
>> is very small, as compared to |B|, then A-B and A & B can be determined
>> rather quickly by only considering elements of A.
>
>
> Both lists have the same number of elements, so double N.
>
>
> [snip]
>
>> You must distinguish questions of principle and questions of muddling
>> through like this testing bit you've done.
>
> Your "question of principle" gives you completely misleading answers.
> Remember, you were the one who predicted that lists would have to be
> faster than sets.

I didn't say they would *have* to be faster
- I was mainly asking for some *reasoned*
argument why (and in what sense) conversion
to sets would be an "efficient" solution
of the OPs problem.

> Your prediction failed miserably.

Interestingly, you admit that you did not
really compare the two approaches that
were under discussion. So your experiment
does *not* (yet) prove what you claim it
proves.

>> It would take me some time to
>> even be *sure* how to interpret the result.
>
> What's to interpret? I know exactly how fast the function will run, on
> average, on my hardware. I can even extrapolate to larger sizes of N,
> although I would be very careful to not extrapolate too far. (I predict
> less than 10 minutes to work on a pair of 10,000,000 element lists, and
> less than two hours to work on 100,000,000 element lists.)

For a starter: You have chosen a very particular type
of element of those lists / sets: integers. So the
complexity of comparisons for the OPs application
might get *seriously* underestimated.

>
>> I would never want to say
>> "it looks O(log N) to me", as you do, and leave it at that. Rather, I
>> might say, as you do, "it looks O(log N) to me", *but* then try to
>> figure out, given my knowledge of the implementation (performance wise,
>> based on information that is sadly missing in the Python documentation),
>> *why* that might be.
>
> Fine. You have the source code, knock yourself out.

That's just what I do *not* think to be a particularly
reasonable approach. Instead, I propose stating
some (to the implementer *easily* available)
information about asymptotic behavior of operations
that are exposed by the module interface upfront.

>> Then, if my experiments says "it looks like O(log
>> N)" AND if my basic knowledge of the implementation of set and list
>> primitives says "it should be O(log N)" as well, I would venture, with
>> some *confidence*, to claim: "it actually IS O(log N)"....
>>
>>  You do not compare the convert-it-to-sets-approach
>> to the single list-walk either.
>
> No I did not, because I didn't have a function to do it.

Here we see one of the problems of a purely
experimentalist approach to computational complexity:
you need an implementation (of the algorithm and the
test harness) *before* you can get your wonderfully
decisive experimental data.
 This is why we would like to have a way of (roughly)
estimating the reasonableness of the outlines of a
program's design in "armchair fashion" - i.e. without
having to write any code and/or test harness.

> You've got my
> source code. Knock yourself out to use it to test any function you like.
>
>> Supposing the OP had actually sorted
>> lists to begin with, then a single, simultaneous walk of the lists would
>> be about as fast as it can get. Very, very likely *faster* than
>> conversion to sets would be...
>
> Please let us know how you go with that. It should be really interesting
> to see how well your prediction copes with the real world.
>
> (Hint: another of those awkward little implementation details... how much
> work is being done in C code, and how much in pure Python? Just something
> for you to think about. And remember, an O(N) algorithm in Python will be
> faster than an O(N**2) algorithm in C... or is that slower?)

This discussion begins to sound like the recurring
arguments one hears between theoretical and
experimental physicists. Experimentalists tend
to overrate the importance of experimental data
(setting up a useful experiment, how to interpret
the experimental data one then gathers, and whether
one stands any chance of detecting systematic errors
of measurement, all depend on having a good *theory*
in the first place). Theoreticians, on the other hand,
tend to overrate the importance of the coherence of
theories. In truth, *both* are needed: good theories
*and* carefully collected experimental data.

Regards,
Christian
--
?When asked how he would have reacted if Eddington's
 *measurements* had come out differently, Einstein
 replied: "Then I would have been sorry for him
 - the *theory* is correct."?
- Paul B. Armstrong: 'Conflicting Readings'




From throw at workmail.co.za  Fri Oct 28 09:58:46 2005
From: throw at workmail.co.za (Throw)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 06:58:46 -0700
Subject: Typing tutor help script needed, please
Message-ID: <1130507926.729061.125850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


G'day everyone!

I would like to design typing tutor exercises for Afrikaans (and other
languages possibly).  This is for a GPL project.  For this, I need a
script that can extract words from a long list of words, based on which
letters those words contain, and write then write output to a file.
Does anyone know of an existing script for this, or can anyone write me
one, please?

Preferably I must be able to extract words which contain only certain
letters (they need not contain all of those letters, but they may not
contain any other letters).  It would be nice if I can also extract
words which do not contain certain letters.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.  I'm on a Windows 2000 machine
with Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk and Java.

Thanks!
Samuel (throw aka voetleuce aka leuce)



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Oct 17 04:12:44 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:12:44 +0200
Subject: popen4
References: <Fnz4f.39703$133.25538@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <wzslv0ftoj.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> "billie" <mlist at fastwebnet.it> (b) wrote:

>b> Hi all. I'm trying to execute system commands and capture the output by 
>b> using popen4:

>b> stdout example:
>>>>> exec_cmd = popen2.popen4("echo hello!")
>>>>> output = exec_cmd[0].read()
>b> hello

>b> stderr example:
>>>>> exec_cmd = popen2.popen4("echobv hello!")
>>>>> output = exec_cmd[0].read()
>b> Unrecognized command

>b> The problem occurs when I try to execute interactive commands like ftp, 
>b> python intepreter etc...
>b> In this case the program crashes without even giving an error.

Crashes?

>b> Suggestions?

I think you need something like pyexpect for this.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 02:16:25 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 30 Sep 2005 23:16:25 -0700
Subject: Feature Proposal: Sequence .join method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1290.1128099670.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dhjpkr$k1d$2@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1290.1128099670.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128147385.848716.158360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

This can be shortened to

def interlace(x, i):
        """interlace(x, i) -> i0, x, i1, x, ..., x, iN
        """
        i = iter(i)
        i.next()
        for e in i:
            yield x
            yield e

I have noticed a while ago that inside generators StopIteration is
automatically trapped, i.e.

def g():
    yield 1
    raise StopIteration
    yield "Never reached"

only yields 1. Not sure if this is documented behavior, however, of if
it is an implementation
accident. Anybody who knows?

                    Michele Simionato



From codecraig at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 08:38:46 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 05:38:46 -0700
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1991.1129194578.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129152455.3374.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.1991.1129194578.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129207125.929288.77350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik...I forgot about that...wish Google Groups had a way to quickly
find the topics a user posts.

anyhow, for receiving an object from python..is it

ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sO", &x, &y);

...is it "sO" or "s0" ....is it O (as in the letter) or 0 (as in the
number)?  I would think "O" the letter..but it looks like a zero.

thanks

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Jeremy Moles wrote:
>
> > Probably what you want to do though is just keep the tuple as is and
> > iterate over it using the PySequence_* protocol:
> >
> > http://docs.python.org/api/sequence.html
>
> I did post a complete and tested example a few days ago, which contained
> code that showed how to do this.  a complete waste of time, of course.
> 
> </F>



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Mon Oct 17 12:30:48 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:30:48 GMT
Subject: How do you draw this layout with wxpython?
References: <1129531620.723991.53140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-FA8B2A.12310017102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1129531620.723991.53140 at g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "Young H. Rhiu" <YH.Rhiu at gmail.com> wrote:

> See: http://hilug.org/img/app_layout.GIF
> 
> I'm implementing an album-like application with wxpython but I'm new to
> wxPython though I know how to program with python. The problem is that
> it's not easy for me to deal with drawing layout stuff with wxpython.
> What layout I'm thinking of looks like the gif image above.
> 
> The application is about saving some comments for each pictures on the
> filesystem. There are two windows. The above one is a window for
> loading some images and the below one is a TextCtrl for writing
> comments and if img1, for instance, is clicked, the first notebook(?)
> folder should be active.
> 
> Below is the program I tried but I don't know how to attach a notebook
> window under the image window.
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in Advance, Rhiu
> 
> My Code:
> from wxPython.wx import *
> 
> class smallAppFrame(wxFrame):
>     def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
>         wxFrame.__init__(self, parent = None, id = -1,
>                          title = "MySmallApp", pos = wxPoint(200, 200),
>                          size = wxSize(460, 200), style =
> wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE)
> 
>         self.bitmap01 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
>         self.bitmap02 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
>         self.bitmap03 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
>         self.bitmap04 = wxStaticBitmap(self, -1,
> wxEmptyBitmap(100,100))
> 
>         box = wxBoxSizer(wxHORIZONTAL)
> 
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap01, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap02, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap03, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
>         box.Add(self.bitmap04, 0, wxALIGN_CENTER)
>         box.Add((10,10))
> 
>         self.SetAutoLayout(True)
>         self.SetSizer(box)
> 
> class MySmallApp(wxApp):
>     def OnInit(self):
>         frame = smallAppFrame(None, -1, "MySmallApp")
>         frame.Show(true)
>         self.SetTopWindow(frame)
>         return true
> 
> app = MySmallApp(0)
> app.MainLoop()

I've never used (or learned) wxWidgets, and I'm even new to GTK, but I 
think you just need a deeper structure.  SmallAppFrame() would contain 
two subwindows, probably using something like wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL).  
The top subwindow would contain what you've done now, and the bottom one 
would have the rest of your stuff.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From http  Sun Oct 16 21:54:52 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 18:54:52 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<diuehq$dvb$1@chessie.cirr.com>
	<7xk6gdyxuu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.23.36.11.625393@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xfyr0q55f.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> But if you are unlikely to discover this worst case behaviour by
> experimentation, you are equally unlikely to discover it in day to
> day usage.

Yes, that's the whole point.  Since you won't discover it by
experimentation and you won't discover it by day to day usage, you may
very well only find out about it when an attacker clobbers you.  If
you want to prevent that, you HAVE to discover it by analysis, or at
least do enough analysis to determine that a successful attack won't
cause you a big catastrophe (ok, this is probably the case for most of
the stuff that most of us do).

Sure, there are some applications that are never exposed to hostile
users.  That excludes pretty much anything that connects to the
internet or handles data that came from the internet.  Any general
purpose development strategy that doesn't take hostile users into
account is of limited usefulness.

> Most algorithms have "worst case" behaviour significantly slower
> than their best case or average case, and are still perfectly useful.

Definitely true.  However, a lot more of the time than many
implementers seem to think, you have to take the worst case into
account.  There's no magic bullet like "experiments" or "unit tests"
that results in reliable software.  You have to stay acutely aware of
what you're doing at every level.


From ms at cerenity.org  Sun Oct  2 21:07:48 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 02:07:48 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>

James A. Donald wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:11:13 -0400, Jean-Fran?ois Doyon
> James A. Donald:
>>  > Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
>>  > mysteriously fail to work with no error message.
>> No, the error message will be pretty clear actually :)
> Now why, I wonder,  does this loop never end :-)
> egold = 0
> while egold < 10:
>    ego1d = egold+1

I know (hope! :-) that's a tongue-in-cheek question, however the answer as
to why that's not a problem is more to do with development habits rather
than language enforcement. (yes with bad habits that can and will happen)

Much python development is test-driven. Either formally using testing
frameworks (I'm partial to unittest, but others like other ones), or
informally using a combination of iterative development and the
interactive shell. Or a mix of the two.

With a formal test framework you would have noticed the bug above
almost instantly - because your test would never finish (Which would
presumably count as a failure for the test that exercises that code).

Whilst that might seem odd, what you're actually doing with type
declarations is saying "if names other than these are used, a bug
exists" and "certain operations on these names are valid". (as well
as a bunch of stuff that may or may not relate to memory allocation
etc)

With test driven development you are specifically testing the functionality
you want to exist *does* exist. TDD also provides a few tricks that can
help you get around writers block, and also catch bugs like above easily and
more importantly early.

Bruce Eckel (author of a fair few interesting C++ & Java books :-) has a
couple of interesting essays on this topic which I think also take this
idea a lot further than is probably suitable for here:

   * Strong Typing vs. Strong Testing:
     http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/log-0025
   * How to Argue about Typing
     http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/log-0052

For what it's worth, if you've not come across test driven development
before then I'd highly recommend Kent Beck's "Test Driven Development: By
Example". You'll either love it or hate it. IMO, it's invaluable though!
I suppose though the difference between static types based testing and
test driven development is that static types only really help you find
bugs (in terms of aiding development), whereas TDD actually helps you
write your code. (Hopefully with less bugs!)

Best Regards,


Michael.



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 22:14:02 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 19:14:02 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
In-Reply-To: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130552042.907818.84170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Well on Windows I used some time ago for similar tasks the wmi module.
It is able to analyse running programs, press buttons and activate menu
items. As you didn't mention it, you might have a look at it. It works
pretty well.

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html

For linux I don't know.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 14 23:44:40 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:44:40 +1000
Subject: deleting a parameter's name as it is passed to a function
References: <1129336848.353805.176360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.15.03.44.40.78541@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:40:48 -0700, Amir  Michail wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I think it would be useful to delete a name of a parameter object as
> the object is passed to a function:
> 
> dosomestuff(del a)

That's a horrible syntax. It would require Python to be completely
re-designed to allow statements where expressions are allowed, and it
isn't even clear what your syntax means. It looks like it means "delete
object a, and then call dosomestuff on the result returned by del".


> instead of
> 
> dosomestuff(a)
> del a

That is lovely and clear.

> The idea is to garbage collect the object as soon as possible, and this
> may be sooner than when dosomestuff returns.

What difference does that make? Why do you care when object a is garbage
collected?


-- 
Steven.



From apgwoz at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 08:28:13 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:28:13 -0400
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
In-Reply-To: <4343BC8E.1060702@yahoo.com>
References: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com>
	<AED30AD0-B8E2-44ED-BBF1-3B624A64E7B7@gmail.com>
	<4343BC8E.1060702@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FD200617-E852-4CC1-84CF-AF5D73B464B8@gmail.com>


On Oct 5, 2005, at 7:44 AM, Brandon K wrote:

> In case you missed it, I said I have windows XP.  Windows XP
> pre-compiled python binaries are built on VS .NET 2003.  In order to
> build extensions, you need the compiler the interpreter was built  
> on, or
> at least that is what is reported to me by calling setup.py.  If I was
> using linux, which I currently am not, it'd be a different story.
> Additionally, GCC isn't available for windows XP, only MinGW, the  
> port,
> and I don't know that much about it to use it running on a Windows
> platform.  Furthermore, I was asking for help on an extension, not an
> economical question about my programming environment.
>

Well, since I don't use Windows XP, I did not know this fact. I  
wasn't trying to offend you or argue with you, I was just flat out  
curious why you had to go out and buy Visual Studio.

---
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org


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From spam at mouse-potato.com  Sun Oct 16 15:40:56 2005
From: spam at mouse-potato.com (Pascal Bourguignon)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:40:56 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<vc05l11nqdfbs71u20k4fi1kcop8lpus4t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <873bn1cks7.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> 3. You don't have to guess what the end user will see.

If you include the fonts, which makes big documents which slows down
the loading and rendering...  I've seen quite a number of PDF that are
ill-rendered or not rendered at all.

-- 
"You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you read it in the
original Klingon"


From sxn02 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 16:10:39 2005
From: sxn02 at yahoo.com (Sori Schwimmer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Suggestion for (re)try statement
Message-ID: <20051027201039.69677.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I think that would be useful to have an improved
version of the "try" statement, as follows:

try(retrys=0,timeout=0):
  # things to try
except:
  # what to do if failed

and having the following semantic:

for i in range(retrys):
  try:
    # things to try
  except:
    if i < retrys:
      i += 1
      sleep(timeout)
    else:
      # what to do if failed
  else:
    break

Of course, "break" may be the last statement in the
"try" branch, and "try"'s "else" may be ommited
completely.

Can't think of a syntax to keep it look like a
statement rather than a function.

Opinions? Is it worth for a PEP?

Sorin


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From SeaFuncSpam at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 03:01:34 2005
From: SeaFuncSpam at gmail.com (Cruise Director)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 00:01:34 -0700
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon
In-Reply-To: <3q7tg9Fdleo3U1@individual.net>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
	<c5ednakvTPmrKKPeRVn-3g@dls.net> <3q7tg9Fdleo3U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <1129100494.313431.293760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Ulrich Hobelmann wrote:
> Paul F. Dietz wrote:
> > Bart Lateur wrote:
> >
> >> As a similar example: I've been told by various women independently,
> >> that "there are more babies born near a full moon."
> >
> > That's also a myth.
>
> Right, everybody knows that it's not natural (moon) light that
> influences reproductive behavior, it's artificial light -- TV.
>
> When TV is turned off by a power failure, lots of people that usually
> never have sex start making love, and lots of people that usually use
> contraception lose their minds and forget about it.
>
> 9 months later more babies are born, unless that's also a myth.

But the myth in question is babies being *born* under natural or
artificial light.  Not being conceived.


Cheers,
Brandon J. Van Every
   (cruise (director (of SeaFunc)
           '(Seattle Functional Programmers)))
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SeaFunc



From bkhl at stp.lingfil.uu.se  Wed Oct  5 09:48:44 2005
From: bkhl at stp.lingfil.uu.se (=?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lindstr=C3=B6m?=)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:48:44 +0200
Subject: How to get the output from os.system() into a variable?
References: <1128519815.769933.60660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87u0fw9irn.fsf@lucien.dreaming>

"alexLIGO" <dietz at rouge.phys.lsu.edu> writes:

> I would like to execute some command in python on the bash, e.g.
>
> os.system('globus-job-run mike4.cct.lsu.edu/jobmanager-pbs -l
> /bin/date')
>
> and want the result of the output in a vector, so something like:
>
> result=python_command(' command_on_the_bash ')
>
> Is that possible? And how to do that?

Check out the commands module.

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-commands.html

-- 
Bj?rn Lindstr?m <bkhl at stp.lingfil.uu.se>
Student of computational linguistics, Uppsala University, Sweden


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 18 14:01:21 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:01:21 +0100
Subject: A little help with time calculations
In-Reply-To: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj3d9e$5cl$1@sea.gmane.org>

iminal wrote:
> I am trying to make a very simple program and am very new to the whole
> programming thing. my program is supposed to ask a user for any time in
> the for format XX:XX:XX and then ask for a time corrrection to add or
> subtract to this. my only problem is that once the user inputs the time
> and the correction its adding it like it was 100 not to 60 any help?
> 
If you're new to programming you may not yet have realised that many 
problems come down to finding appropriate representations for things.

Since you want to do arithmetic on times, why not store them as seconds? 
Then you just need to work out how to convert times to seconds, and 
seconds to times - Python's arithmetic will do the rest.

See if you can make anything of these functions (which I haven't tested, 
so you're allowed to complain if they don't work ;-):

def timetosecs(s):
     hms = s.split(":")     # [hh, mm, ss]
     secs = 0
     for t in hms:
         secs = secs * 60 + int(t)
     return secs

def secstotime(secs):
     hms = []
     while secs:
         hms.append(str(secs % 60))
         secs = secs // 60
     return ":".join(hms)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 16:39:12 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:39:12 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr><178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com><mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
Message-ID: <dibv5e$tj1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Donn Cave wrote:

> | > Except it is interpreted.
> |
> | except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte code, which
> | is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a module is up
> | to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.
>
> Fair to say that byte code is interpreted?  Seems to require an
> application we commonly call an interpreter.

well, the bytecode isn't Python (the transformation isn't exactly straight-
forward, as we've seen in other posts I've made today).

and even if the bytecode engine used in CPython can be viewed as an inter-
preter, does that make Python an interpreted language?  what about Python
code that uses a runtime that converts it to machine code?  (e.g. Psycho, Iron-
Python).  is it still an interpreter if it generates machine code?

</F> 





From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 16:41:51 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:41:51 +0100
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
In-Reply-To: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dj12ag$foq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Sori Schwimmer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have Python 2.4.1 and have downloaded 2.4.2. Is
> there a way to avoid installing everything and,
> instead, just upgrade?
> 
Yes. Just uninstall 2.4.1 and install 2.4.2 - all your extensions and 
additional modules should remain (though it wouldn't hurt to do a backup 
first in case I'm wrong ;-).

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 25 15:51:58 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 19:51:58 GMT
Subject: Weird import behavior
References: <1130260282.027302.49370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96FABB2481DB9duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<1130265049.927710.155050@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96FAD4370821Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Tommytrojan wrote:

> Duncan,
> 
> thanks for your quick reply. I guess I should have included the output.
> I thought I was clear in the error description.
> The problem is that I never assign to 'string'. I only reference it (as
> the error message correctly states). If you comment out the import
> statement in the except clause the program runs fine. Now notice that
> the exception hander never gets executed! Any explanation?
> 
You have an assignment to 'string' in the function (import, class and def 
statements are all equivalent to assignment statements so far as scoping 
is concerned). It doesn't matter whether or not the assignment gets 
executed: the compiler flags the variable as a local variable.

See the Python FAQ, 1.2.2:

1.2.2   What are the rules for local and global variables in Python?

In Python, variables that are only referenced inside a function are 
implicitly global. If a variable is assigned a new value anywhere within 
the function's body, it's assumed to be a local. If a variable is ever 
assigned a new value inside the function, the variable is implicitly local, 
and you need to explicitly declare it as 'global'.


From jmdeschamps at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 20:28:11 2005
From: jmdeschamps at gmail.com (jmdeschamps at gmail.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 17:28:11 -0700
Subject: Simple server/client application
In-Reply-To: <1130187450.794254.60660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130184666.541928.133350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130187450.794254.60660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130200091.651575.221970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Simon Percivall wrote:
> You're calling the grid() method on the Entry object you're
> instanciating. Are you sure that the grid() method returns the Entry
> object so that you're actually binding it to self.myAddress?

The widget maker should do it in two steps instead of one.
So instead of:

self.myAddress=Entry(self.root,relief=SUNKEN).grid(row=1,column=1,sticky=W)
Make it thus:
      self.myAddress = Entry(self.root,relief=SUNKEN) # make it and
keep it here
      self.address.grid(row=1,column=1,sticky=W)      # grid it here
in the create_widgets method.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 28 14:18:09 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:18:09 +0100
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djtq0v$3cp$1@sea.gmane.org>

usgog at yahoo.com wrote:
> Now it works:
> rex = re.compile(r'(^.*username *=[^"]*")([^"]*)(".*$)')
> for line in fileinput.input(FILE, inplace=1):
>      m = rex.match(line)
>      if m is not None:
>          line = "%s%s%s\n" % (m.group(1), new_name, m.group(3))
>      print line
> 
> But there is an extra line break after each line in FILE. Why is that?
> I tried to line = "%s%s%s" % (m.group(1), new_name, m.group(3)) but it
> turns out there are two extra line breaks after each line...
> 
 >>> for l in open('wshtest1.pys'):
...     print repr(l)
...
'import sys\n'
'# WScript.Echo(str(sys.modules))\n'
'\n'
'from msg import Message\n'
'Message("Hello")\n'
'\n'
 >>>

As yoyu can see, iterating over a (text) file gives you lines with a 
line ending. Print adds a line ending as well. Instead use

import sys
     ...
     ...
     ...
     sys.stdout.write(l)

You will find you lose the blank lines.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From gordonb.mrv0t at burditt.org  Thu Oct 13 17:39:45 2005
From: gordonb.mrv0t at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:39:45 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<XFm3f.10321$y_1.7586@edtnps89>
	<11ktbum1ira9le4@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns96EE8772BFB9Fbguild31425@64.59.144.76>
Message-ID: <11ktl11e426b41d@corp.supernews.com>

>> Does the language allow Javascript to open a new window?  Does the
>> language allow Javascript to trigger a function when a window is
>> closed?  I believe the answer to both questions is YES.  Then it
>> is possible to have a page that pops up two windows whenever you
>> close one.
>
>This was a problem, but modern browsers implement Javascript in such a 
>way that it requires permission from the user before it will open a new 
>window.

An infinite loop of asking permission is *ALSO* a denial-of-service
attack.  And I don't believe that the limitation applies in all
circumstances.  This seems to be a feature of the *language*, not
only the implementation.

>> If it can reveal my email address to any web site, it's a bug.  If
>> it can access or alter my personal files or address book, it's a
>> bug.  If it can generate hits on web sites other than that specified
>> in the HTML, it's a bug.  If it can open sockets, it's a bug.
>> If it can look at or set cookies stored on my system, it's a bug.
>> If it can look at or alter the list of previously visited URLs, it's
>> a bug.
>
>All of those things seem like major problems except the bit about 
>cookies. What possible harm can reading and setting cookies do? I had 

Javascript may be able to set cookies even if they are turned off
by the normal mechanism of setting cookies.  Even if that isn't the
case, cookies are supposed to be domain-specific and a cookie from
site A (which might have a session ID for an active login session, or
login credentials for site A) should not be sent to site B.  Javascript
can apparently make its own URLs and send anything it gets its hands
on to any site it wants to.

The existence of a cookie from site A shouldn't be revealed at all
to site B (or to Javascript from site B), regardless of what it
contains.

>always thought they were carefully and successfully designed to be 
>harmless. That's not personal information in your cookies. That 

Some websites *DO* put personal information in cookies.  They don't
all just use randomized session identifiers.  Some of them store
login credentials for a site (not just a currently active session,
but permanent login credentials.  That might not be "personal" the
same way a SSN or credit card number is, but you could still do
damage with it).  A lot of the popularity of Javascript comes from
the ability to steal information from the client computer that
normal HTML does not give access to (e.g.  screen/window size, email
address, IP address as seen by the client (because of NAT and
proxies, might not be the same IP as seen by the server), MAC
address, browsing history, Windows serial number, Pentium CPU serial
number, etc.)

>information is set by websites for the sole purpose of being read by 
>websites. 

*BY THE WEBSITES THAT SET THEM*, not by all websites.  The "domain"
parameter for setting cookies has been in there since the beginning
of the standard for cookies.

If a marketer wants a piece of information, then I don't want him
to have it, even if it's something like "I visited <page X> and
then went to <page Y>" even if there's no identification of who "I"
is.

>Plus, I'm pretty sure that browsers have always allowed us to 
>disable cookies.

I'm not sure that you can disable Javascript from reading cookies
from other sites while allowing Javascript to read cookies from the
site it came from on all browsers.

					Gordon L. Burditt


From rupole at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 26 15:38:15 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:38:15 -0400
Subject: Using Python to add thumbnails to Explorer
References: <djocih$msn$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1130355747_658@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

As you guessed, the icon locations are stored in the registry.
There's a key under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT for each
registered file type, with a default value holding the class name.
Under the class name, there's a DefaultIcon key that gives
the path to the icon.  Using python files an an example, you
have HKCR\.py with Default=Python.File, and under
HKCR\Python.File\DefaultIcon, you should have the
path to py.ico.  You can use the _winreg module to create
your own entries.

     hth
        Roger




"c d saunter" <christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk> wrote in message news:djocih$msn$1 at heffalump.dur.ac.uk...
> Greetings All,
> In Widows Explorer there is a thumbnail view, where you see images as thumbnails.
> Applications such as MS Office and OpenOffice, when installed, cause their respective filetypes
> to be previewed as thumbnails as well.
>
> Thumbnails are stored in the Thumbs.db hidden file.
>
> There my knowledge ends.  I'm asuming that aplications install registry keys somewhere that
> register an invocation that returns a thumbnail for a given file bit this is just a guess.
>
> What I'd like to do is write some Python script that can be invoked to add thumbnails for
> certian file types (my own custom types and things like the .FITS array format.)
>
> Googling isn't going anywhere so I am hoping there are some wizards out there with poiters...
>
> Specifically any information on how the thumbnail system works would be great!
>
> Cheers,
> Chris 




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 17:01:10 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:01:10 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <1128542791.4560.34.camel@blackwidow>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>	
	<3qid8sFeigdeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128532128.4560.21.camel@blackwidow>	
	<3qihbfFerdqjU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128542791.4560.34.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <3qit8lFf749gU1@uni-berlin.de>


>>Read the comments. What you say is essentially the same - the data 
>>matters, after all. What do you care if there are several instances
>>around?
>>
> In my case it matters more that the objects are the same.
> 
> For example I want set([Spam(1), Spam(2),
> Spam(3)]).intersect(set([Spam(1), Spam(2)]) to contain two items instead
> of 0.
> 
> For this and many other reasons it's important that Spam(n) is Spam(n).

Ah, ok. Well, you could always use the __hash__ method to ensure  that - 
might be better anyway, because then _you_ define what equality means. 
But YMMV.

Diez


From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Mon Oct 17 12:48:35 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:48:35 GMT
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
References: <mailman.2153.1129538807.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-93FF0F.12484617102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <mailman.2153.1129538807.509.python-list at python.org>,
 David Pratt <fairwinds at eastlink.ca> wrote:

> I am working with a text format that advises to strip any ascii control 
> characters (0 - 30) as part of parsing data and also the ascii pipe 
> character (124) from the data. I think many of these characters are 
> from a different time. Since I have never seen most of these characters 
> in text I am not sure how these first 30 control characters are all 
> represented (other than say tab (\t), newline(\n), line return(\r) ) so 
> what should I do to remove these characters if they are ever 
> encountered. Many thanks.

Most of those characters are hard to see.

Represent arbitrary characters in a string in hex: "\x00\x01\x02" or 
with chr(n).

If you just want to remove some characters, look into "".translate().  

nullxlate = "".join([chr(n) for n in xrange(256)])
delchars = nullxlate[:31] + chr(124)
outputstr = inputstr.translate(nullxlate, delchars)
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From dan at wolf.com  Sun Oct 30 01:15:00 2005
From: dan at wolf.com (Dan M)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:15:00 -0700
Subject: query a port
References: <1130642480.233982.197760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.30.05.14.58.2000@wolf.com>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:21:20 -0700, eight02645999 wrote:

> hi
> in python, how do one query a port to see whether it's up or not?
> thanks

I'm an absolute beginner, but let's see if I can help. Assuming you want
to check a port on another machine,

import socket
port=25			# Port we want to test
host=machine.to.test	# Either IP address or FQDN
s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) 
try:
	s.connect((host, port))	
	print "We made the connection"
except socket.error:
	print "Sorry, that port is not open"
s.close

Does that help?

Dan


From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Oct  7 02:28:45 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:28:45 +0200
Subject: PyObject_New
In-Reply-To: <1128608391.7548.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1128608391.7548.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4346159D.6070306@ghaering.de>

Jeremy Moles wrote:
> [...] What I'm trying
> now is the following:
> 
> 	PyObject* obj = _PyObject_New(&PyType_MyType);
> 	obj = PyObject_Init(obj, &PyType_MyType);
> 	
> 	...
> 
> 	return obj;
> 
> When "obj" gets back to the interpreter, Python sees it (or rather, it's
> __repr__) in accordance with what it "should" be. However, any attempt
> to USE the object results in a segfault. I feel my problem is simply
> that I'm not allocating "obj" correctly in the C++ function.
> 
> If anyone has any advice, I would really appreciate it.

When I looked for info on this, I didn't find any good documentation, 
either.

I'm currently using code like the following in pysqlite 
(http://initd.org/tracker/pysqlite/browser/pysqlite/trunk/src/connection.c?rev=154):

126	    if (factory == NULL) {
127 	        factory = (PyObject*)&CursorType;
128 	    }
129 	
130 	    cursor = PyObject_CallFunction(factory, "O", self);

So, basically I'm just calling the type like any other callable object. 
I don't remember if there was a reason why I didn't use 
PyObject_CallObject instead, at the time ...

In any case, this approach worked fine for me.

-- Gerhard



From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 00:23:08 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 21:23:08 -0700
Subject: Extention Module/ list of chars-> string
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2271.1129752743.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129749035.667046.98630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2271.1129752743.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129782188.632108.315570@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the help, I actually ended up writing my own simple
charlist2string function, I realized it was only about 4 lines of code,
but, appreciate the help!



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Oct  7 08:41:53 2005
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:41:53 -0400
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
In-Reply-To: <di514r$kr7$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<devbk1l6ql5ml0t24mbr5ubba0m01gsdn2@4ax.com>
	<di514r$kr7$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20051007124153.GA8760@phenix.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Robert Kern]

> [...] an ODE integrator would probably want to adaptively select its
> timesteps as opposed to laying out a uniform discretization upfront.

Eons ago, I gave myself such a little beast (but really found in an
Appendix of a book on simulation), which I use since then whenever I
need it, not so often in these days.  If you are curious, see:

  http://fp-etc.progiciels-bpi.ca/rke.html

yet I'm sure there is just plenty of such things, all around.

The above is in C, not in Python.  I vaguely remember having once
rewritten the thing in Python, then discarded the result as not fast
enough for the need I then had.  If I really needed to use it nowadays,
I'll probably try to quickly link it through Pyrex.  Or just look around
a bit for some already made, and maybe better solution. :-)

It is easy and convenient, when writing a mixed discrete and continuous
simulation system, to tie the advancement control of the various active
ODE solvers within the main loop of the discrete event scheduler.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 22 09:03:57 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:03:57 +0200
Subject: access dictionary with preferred order ?
References: <1129954732.769162.62150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djddbv$hm1$1@sea.gmane.org>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:

> I am wondering if there is a dictionary data type that allows me to
> define the order of access when iterating it using items/keys etc. ?
>
> An example:
>
> a=dict(a=dict(), c=dict(), h=dict())
> prefer=['e','h', 'a']
>
> for x in a.values: print x
>
> would give me
> {h:dict()}, {a:dict()}, then the rest which I don't care about the
> order ?

a straight-forward implementation should be pretty efficient:

    for k in prefer:
        try:
            v = d.pop(k)
        except KeyError:
            pass
        else:
            ... deal with k, v ...
    for k, v in d.iteritems():
        ... deal with k, v ...

or, non-destructive:

    for k in prefer:
        try:
            v = d[k]
        except KeyError:
            pass
        else:
            ... deal with k, v ...
    for k, v in d.iteritems():
        if k not in prefer:
            ... deal with k, v ...

the latter is trivial to convert into a helper generator:

    def ordered_items(d, prefer):
        for k in prefer:
            try:
                v = d[k]
            except KeyError:
                pass
            else:
                yield k, v
        for k, v in d.iteritems():
            if k not in prefer:
                yield k, v

    for k, v in ordered_items(d, prefer):
        ... deal with k, v ...

if you insist on having this behaviour in a type rather than a helper,
subclass dict and add ordered_items as a method.

</F>





From rob_pagano at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 20:56:56 2005
From: rob_pagano at hotmail.com (Robert Pagano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 00:56:56 GMT
Subject: Simulating low bandwidth network on localhost
References: <1128728893.814798.44050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fa6ek1dcd0q5qnem4peq4vimba2s6kualr@4ax.com>

check out dummynet...

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=dummynet&sektion=4



On 7 Oct 2005 16:48:13 -0700, "qvx" <qvx3000 at gmail.com> wrote:

>I would like to test my CherryPy application in varying network
>conditions, ranging from localhost full speed to low badwidth (ie.
>14.4kbps) and variable latency from milliseconds range to seconds
>range.
>
>How can I simulate this? Are there some tricks to be played with Python
>or is there a specialized software for this kind of things (preferably
>free).
>
>Thanks,
>qvx


From greymausarowwow at cableone.net  Mon Oct 31 17:22:53 2005
From: greymausarowwow at cableone.net (Mouser)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:22:53 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <dk64nk$dp0$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<867jbt2xyb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk64nk$dp0$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <11md673o95m6i43@corp.supernews.com>

It's good to see that tilting at windmills hasn't gone out of style 
since Cervantes' time.  [[hehehehehe...]]




From rspoonz at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:19:09 2005
From: rspoonz at gmail.com (rspoonz at gmail.com)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 00:19:09 -0700
Subject: changing filename of file-type object
Message-ID: <1128928749.231838.206360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a cgi script from which I wish to return a zipped file with an
extension other than .zip (ie .zzz)

I am creating a file-type object (cStringIO) and adding some zipped
information to it using zipfile.

I then return this with Content-Type: application/zip

The problem is that the file the browser sees has a .zip extension. Is
there any way I can change this extension?



From shannonlayland at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 15:46:40 2005
From: shannonlayland at gmail.com (shannonl)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 12:46:40 -0700
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
In-Reply-To: <djo5df$12m$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djo5df$12m$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1130356000.252148.4650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I don't know if Tk supports this or not.  I guess it just made since to
me that it should.  If you can bind events to a tag then why not a tag
inside a text widget.  The actual bind itself works.  donothing() is
called, the problem is that after donothing() is called and I return
"break", Tk continues to insert the text entered.  I am just try to
lock down one particular part of a text line while leaving the rest of
the line, which has a different tag, alone.



From bartek.a at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 10:15:06 2005
From: bartek.a at gmail.com (Bartas)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:15:06 -0700
Subject: SOAPpy, client,
	execute method that has 'complex' input parameter (with list)?
Message-ID: <1128521706.495593.187210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
  I'am writting a simple SOAP client in python (2.4) using SOAPpy lib.

  I've met with this problem:

   when I want to send a list of complex type using
   some method from WebService(java,WAS),


  I'v got an exception:
  **********************

  SOAPpy.Types.faultType:

 <Fault Server.generalException: org.xml.sax.SAXException:
   WSWS3136E: Error: No deserializer defined for
  array type {http://www.w3.org/1999/XMLSchema}instance: >

  I understand that this exception comes from WebService
server(WAS,java),
  and I know the reason of this exception,

  A SOAP request genereted by SOAPpy contains invalid information
  about Type of objects (which I've send).

Example:
*******

ServerSide (I know a list o methods and data types, so I don't read
WSDL)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
server serve method:

  sendMyElements(MyClass input)

where

'MyClass' is a class which contains two fields:
'sessionId' --------- just STRING
'myElements'--------- an array of 'MyElement'

where

 'MyElement' is class which contains some simple string fields (name,
desecr)



ClientSide
--------------------

  from SOAPpy import WSDL

  url =
'http://localhost:9080/RouterTestWeb/services/Test/wsdl/Test.wsdl'

  serv = WSDL.Proxy(url)

  print serv.methods.keys()

  class MyElement:
    def __init__(self,x,y):
        self.name=x
	self.descr=y

  class MyClass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.sessionId="someSessionId-someSessionId-someSessionId"

        #!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK THIS LINE
	self.myElements
         =MyElement("a","a"),MyElement("b","b"),MyElement("c","")]

  print serv.sendMyElements(MyClass())


  Look at the line where I create list of elements MyElement,
  In python type 'list' is able to store object of any type
  (example: [123,"sddsf",MyElement()]),

  Maybe this type ('list') gives me to abstract level, cause whey:


list=['a',213,MyElement('as',''),MyElement('adsf',''),MyElement('asdsad','')]
  print type(list)
  for a in list:
    print a,type(a)

  I get ...
        <type 'list'> -------for list, below for list's elements
        a <type 'str'>
        213 <type 'int'>
        <__main__.MyElement instance at 0x00D4ABC0> <type 'instance'>
        <__main__.MyElement instance at 0x00D56C10> <type 'instance'>
        <__main__.MyElement instance at 0x00D56CD8> <type 'instance'>

  Important, the type(MyElement("sadas","sad")) returns <type
'instance'>
  and this information (I think) is used by SOAPpy lib while creating
  SOAP request,

  a piece of SOAP request:
 	<saveArrayOfData SOAP-ENC:arrayType="xsd:instance[3]"
        xsi:type="SOAP-ENC:Array" SOAP-ENC:root="0" id="i2">
	  <item href="#i4"/>
	  <item href="#i5"/>
	  <item href="#i6"/>
        </saveArrayOfData>

  I see here, that I'am sending an array of object 'instance'
(SOAP-ENC:arrayType="xsd:instance[3]"),
  but a want to send an array of MyElements.

QUESTIONs
*********
1. What shoud I do send an array of objects only one type (MyElement) ?
   - create more strict data type than 'list'?
   - force object - an instance of MyElement class to return proper
info
     about 'type' (type(MyElement('','')))

2. Maybe, I should use 'wsdl2py' to create valid structures (but
'wsdl2py' sometimes fails
   while parsing my WSDLs - with error RuntimeError: maximum recursion
depth exceeded)

3. Maybe, I should use other library than SOAPpy
 
  

Thanks for any help,
Bartek



From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Tue Oct  4 18:07:42 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 00:07:42 +0200
Subject: Build spoofed IP packets
Message-ID: <L2D0f.12452$133.5252@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Hi all. I'd need to build spoofed IP packets. Do you know something about a 
python implementation?
For low level packet building I already used Impacket module but if I 
specify a spoofed src address during IP packet creation, module returns an 
error.
Suggestions?

Regards. 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 04:35:34 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:35:34 +0200
Subject: Problems with properties
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET> <434FE01E.9070907@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <1h4ko16.d97c4f1o41y0gN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Schneider <michaelschneider at fuse.net> wrote:

> Thanks to all,  I added the object as a subclass (should this be 
> required for 2.4.1 ???)

It _IS_ required, because Python these days moves *very slowly indeed*
before changing semantics of existing code in any way that is not
backwards compatible -- we just don't want to break good working code,
and there are many millions of lines' worth of such Python code in use
around the world.  The newstyle object model cannot have identical
semantics to the legacy (AKA "classic") one, so it can't become the
default without LOTS AND LOTS of years spent with the old-style mode
being discouraged and deprecated... but STILL the default.

As usual, "should" is a harder question to answer -- one might
reasonably say that maintainers of legacy code have had PLENTY of
warning time by now, and newstyle OM "should" become the default by,
say, 2.6, rather than waiting for 3.0.  But, that's not an easy issue to
call!


Alex


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 25 03:31:54 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:31:54 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Ron Adam wrote:
> James Stroud wrote:
>> Here it goes with a little less overhead:
>> 
>> 
<example snipped>
> 
> But it's not a dictionary anymore so you can't use it in the same places 
> you would use a dictionary.
> 
>        foo(**n)
> 
> Would raise an error.
> 
> So I couldn't do:
> 
>     def foo(**kwds):
>        kwds = namespace(kwds)
>        kwds.bob = 3
>        kwds.alice = 5
>        ...
>        bar(**kwds)     #<--- do something with changed items
> 
I agree with Steven D'Aprano's reply, but if you are set on it you could 
try this:

>>> class namespace(dict):
	def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
	    dict.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
	    self.__dict__ = self

	    
>>> n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
>>> n.bob
1
>>> n.bob = 3
>>> n['bob']
3

The big problem of course with this sort of approach is that you cannot 
then safely use any of the methods of the underlying dict as they could be 
masked by values.

P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting.


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Oct 14 04:23:45 2005
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:23:45 +0200
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051014082345.GA12628@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>

Ben wrote:
> Could anyone suggest an open source project that has particularly well
> written Python?  I am especially looking for code that people would
> describe as "very Python-ic".  (Not trying to start any kind of war -
> just wanted some good examples of a well written Python app to read.)

Mailman - http://www.list.org/
Spambayes - http://www.spambayes.org

Those are written by experienced Python programmers, some of them Python
developers. It looks like well written code to me.

Gerrit.

-- 
Temperature in Lule?, Norrbotten, Sweden:
| Current temperature   05-10-14 10:19:49    8.3 degrees Celsius ( 47.0F) |
-- 
Det finns inte d?ligt v?der, bara d?liga kl?der.


From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Oct 10 08:06:48 2005
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:06:48 +0200
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <434a58fa$0$38648$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Ville Voipio wrote:
> In article <7xr7au1hr5.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>>I would say give the app the heaviest stress testing that you can
>>before deploying it, checking carefully for leaks and crashes.  I'd
>>say that regardless of the implementation language.
> 
> Goes without saying. But I would like to be confident (or as
> confident as possible) that all bugs are mine. If I use plain
> C, I think this is the case. Of course, bad memory management
> in the underlying platform will wreak havoc.

Python isn't perfect, but I do believe that is as good as the best of 
the major "standard" systems out there.

You will have *far* greater chances of introducing errors yourself by 
coding in c, than you will encounter in Python.

You can see the bugs fixed in recent versions, and see for yourself 
whether they would have crashed your system. That should be an indicator:

http://www.python.org/2.4.2/NEWS.html


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From http  Thu Oct 27 06:25:10 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 03:25:10 -0700
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
References: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de> <7x64rjs4w8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djq6r6$b2a$1@sadr.dfn.de> <djq8v6$cbb$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <7x1x27xnnd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:
> In that application we talked about presenting the user with two and
> two images and he just had to click on the image that came first. The
> problem with this was to try to present the "right" images to the user
> so that he had to minimize the number of clicks.

If you're trying to sort those pictures chronologically, there is a
total ordering and the best you can do in general is a standard 
O(N log N) sorting algorithm.  If you've got good timestamps on some
of the pics, so you want to minimize comparisons involving pics with
no timestamps, hmm, maybe some optimizations are possible.


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Thu Oct 13 12:04:40 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:04:40 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051013160440.GC5267@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 13, Ben wrote:
> Could anyone suggest an open source project that has particularly well
> written Python?  I am especially looking for code that people would
> describe as "very Python-ic".  (Not trying to start any kind of war -
> just wanted some good examples of a well written Python app to read.)

The Python Package Index (PyPI, or cheeseshop)
<http://www.python.org/pypi> has pointers to a lot of packages that are
likely mostly pythonic.

I don't know if this is spelled out more precisely somewhere, but here
is my notion of a pythonic distribution:

* Has modules grouped into packages, all are cohesive, loosely
  coupled, and reasonable length

* Largely follows PEP <http://www.python.org/peps/> conventions

* Avoids reinventing any wheels by using as many Python-provided modules
  as possible

* Well documented for users (manpages or other) and developers
  (docstrings), yet self-documenting with minimal inline commenting

* Uses distutils for ease of distribution

* Contains standard informational files such as:
  BUGS.txt  COPYING.txt  FAQ.txt  HISTORY.txt  README.txt  THANKS.txt

* Contains standard directory structure such as:
  doc/  tools/ (or scripts/ or bin/)  packageX/  packageY/  test/

* Clean UI, easy to use, probably relying on optparse or getopt

* Has many unit tests that are trivial to run, and code is structured to
  facilitate building of tests

The first example of a pythonic package that comes to my mind is
docutils <http://docutils.sourceforge.net/>.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 17:14:22 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:14:22 +0200
Subject: output from external commands
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>
	<868xwj6mgv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org><fvydncshoq8vl8DeRVn-2A@powergate.ca>
	<200510241425.45538.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> Note also that for those who count, "str(f)" is exactly as long
> (in keystrokes) as "'%s'%f", making the "just" a matter of opinion.

the % implementation still has to create an overallocated output buffer,
parse the format string, call str() on the argument, verify the result,
check that the new string fits in the output buffer, copy the contents
to the new string to the output buffer, discard the new string, and
finally, when the entire format string has been processed, resize the
output buffer to the right size.

however, the memory allocator is fast, block copies are cheap, and
operator access is faster than global function accesses, so as long
as the format string is short, the resulting string is no more than 100
bytes longer, and Raymond hasn't gotten around to optimize the str()
code path, % can be slightly faster than a plain call to str().  in all
other cases, str() is faster.

(using either on the output from glob.glob is just plain silly, of course)

</F>





From fabioz at esss.com.br  Tue Oct 25 06:02:27 2005
From: fabioz at esss.com.br (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:02:27 -0200
Subject: A macro editor
In-Reply-To: <gKR5f.107432$US.72731@news.ono.com>
References: <gKR5f.107432$US.72731@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <435E02B3.50409@esss.com.br>

Hi Jaume,

Pydev (http://pydev.sf.net) is an eclipse plugin that does 
code-completion for jython, so, it might be worth taking a look at it...

Cheers,

Fabio


jau wrote:

>Hello mates.
>
>I'm part of a big project's developer team. We are writting an 
>application in Java and we are planning to add scripting functionality 
>to it. What we exactly are planning is to give a kind of tool that would 
>allow our users to write their own scripts to perform their special 
>operations. Something like VBA does in several comercial applications. 
>But, as we are GPL we have to use a close to GPL licensed-like language.
>
>My teammates and I were talking about to use one of Python, Ruby or 
>Groovy. But, we haven't decided which to use.
>
>What seems to be easier is to use Python, you know.. because of the 
>Jython thing. But, it is probably a mistake to take Jython without a 
>extensive analysis of the all possibilities.
>
> From my point of view, the best choice will be those that allow the 
>average user getting results as fast as possible rather than the power 
>of the language itself. At the end, what we will write is a gateway to 
>access to our application's Java API through the scripts written by our 
>users.
>
>In this sense, I'd like to ask if someone knows if any of these 
>languages have a Java implementation that supports code auto-complete 
>and class navigation or any kind of functionality that would ease and 
>speed up the user's learning curve and productivity.
>
>In other words, is it possible to have a small and lightly intelligent 
>workbench window (a mini-Eclipse for example) for our future "macro 
>editor" within our application?
>
>I promise that if get some info I'll publish it here as soon I have it.
>
>Thanks for your time!
>Jaume
>  
>




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Oct 23 16:42:15 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:42:15 +0200
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435BF5A7.2030802@ghaering.de>

PyPK wrote:
> What possible tricky areas/questions could be asked in Python based
> Technical Interviews?

I would try to check if the applicant understands the Python data model: 
http://docs.python.org/ref/objects.html Because I thinkt that's 
fundamental to understanding the Python language and understanding 
complexity of operations.

-- Gerhard


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 28 19:41:14 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:41:14 +1000
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.28.23.41.14.445842@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:22:11 -0700, pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com wrote:

> Which is quite fast. The only problems is that the file might be huge.

What *you* call huge and what *Python* calls huge may be very different
indeed. What are you calling huge?

> I really have no need for reading the entire file into a string as I am
> doing here. All I want is to count occurences this substring. Can I
> somehow count occurences in a file without reading it into a string
> first?

Magic?

You have to read the file into memory at some stage, otherwise how can you
see what value the bytes are? The only question is, can you read it all
into one big string (in which case, your solution is unlikely to be
beaten), or do you have to read the file in chunks and deal with the
boundary cases (which is harder)?

Here is another thought. What are you going to do with the count when you
are done? That sounds to me like a pretty pointless result: "Hi user, the
file XYZ has 27 occurrences of bitpattern \x00\x00\x01\x00. Would you like
to do another file?"

If you are planning to use this count to do something, perhaps there is a
more efficient way to combine the two steps into one -- especially
valuable if your files really are huge.


-- 
Steven.



From ld at 126.pl  Tue Oct  4 05:31:10 2005
From: ld at 126.pl (ld at 126.pl)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:31:10 +0200
Subject: Graphical debugger/code explorer
References: <dhrlbj$sph$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <dhti54$4nh$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Florian Lindner wrote:

> Hello,
> in order to understand python code from a larger project (Zope 3) I'm
> looking for a tool that helps me with that. It should also help
> What (graphical) application running on Linux can you recommend?

Maybe you shoud tryy doxygen/happydoc etc?

Doxygen support python, just add '.py' extension to understanable files and
output syntax to 'java-like'.




From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:18:56 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 08:18:56 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
	<mailman.1667.1128678886.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Test for the existence of one or more matches of the wildcard
expression.

For example:

    Are there any files that begin with 2005?

This doesn't work (wish it did):

     os.access('2005*',os.F_OK)

However, these work arounds do the job:

    glob.glob('2005*')==[]

as does this bash command:

    os.system('[ -e %s ]' % path )

The 1st is not very readable and the 2nd has portability issues.



From python_it at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  5 07:24:26 2005
From: python_it at hotmail.com (Python_it)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 04:24:26 -0700
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>
	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I know how to insert values in a database.
That's not my problem!
My problem is how i insert NULL values in de mysql-database.
None is een object in Python and NULL not.
None is not converted to NULL?
Table shows None and not NULL!



From vbfoobar at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 05:21:05 2005
From: vbfoobar at gmail.com (vbfoobar at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 02:21:05 -0700
Subject: How to make command history persistent?
Message-ID: <1129627265.021498.146390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

My question is:
  Is there an easy mean to make Python "command history"
  persistent across interpreter invokations?

PS:
  In the case the question above is not clear, I rephrase
  it below verbosely...
  When I work from the Python prompt, I enjoy features
  like command line editing and searching/recalling
  previous lines of code from the history.
  (This is similar to working from a Unix shell prompt.)
    But I would like, in addition, be able to keep the history
  from one session to another (when I quit Python, the history
  is lost, but I would like to retrieve it each time In
  invoke again Python interactively).

Thanks



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 05:57:40 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:57:40 +0200
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
References: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com><mailman.2187.1129582031.509.python-list@python.org><1129690538.026623.28230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><1129712636.124150.248200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<fcc3e6170510250239y68afeea8k70d5eb0b196be3c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djkvik$g4a$1@sea.gmane.org>

Vincent Gulinao wrote:

> Hi, I'm new to python and just upgraded python on my system from 2.3 to 2.4.
> My platform is Linux-2.6.9-1.667smp-i686-with-redhat-3-Heidelberg.
>
> Is there any way to inherit (share?) all extensions and additional modules
> the my 2.3 have? (of course, beside re-installing everything)

binary extensions should, in general, be recompiled for each new X.Y release,
so it's usually best to reinstall them.

(under Unix, you can often use older extensions, but you may get warnings, and
some extensions may not work properly.  if you feel adventurous, you can simply
copy the old Lib/site-packages directory to the corresponding location in the new
install, and see what happens.  no guarantees, though...)

</F> 





From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 20 09:47:37 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:47:37 -0400
Subject: How to extract a part of html file
References: <pan.2005.10.20.05.36.36.987442@lycos.com>
	<dj7e0f$b74$1@rose.polar.local>
Message-ID: <86sluwuwp2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Ben Finney <bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au> writes:

> Joe <dinamo99 at lycos.com> wrote:
>> I'm trying to extract part of html code from a tag to a tag
> For tag soup, use BeautifulSoup:
>     <URL:http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/>

Except he's trying to extract an apparently random part of the
file. BeautifulSoup is a wonderful thing for dealing with X/HTML
documents as structured documents, which is how you want to deal with
them most of the time.

In this case, an re works nicely:

>>> import re
>>> s = '<span class="boldyellow"><B><U>  and ends with TD><TD> <img src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE>'
>>> r = re.match('<span class="boldyellow"><B><U>(.*)TD><TD> <img src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE>', s)
>>> r.group(1)
'  and ends with '
>>> 

String.find also works really well:

>>> start = s.find('<span class="boldyellow"><B><U>') + len('<span class="boldyellow"><B><U>')
>>> stop = s.find('TD><TD> <img src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE>', start)
>>> s[start:stop]
'  and ends with '
>>> 

Not a lot to choose between them.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From listspam at flowtheory.net  Thu Oct  6 17:40:44 2005
From: listspam at flowtheory.net (Joshua Ginsberg)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:40:44 -0400
Subject: Lambda evaluation
In-Reply-To: <20051006202700.3914.338280121.divmod.quotient.24966@ohm>
References: <20051006202700.3914.338280121.divmod.quotient.24966@ohm>
Message-ID: <1128634844.5816.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>

That's a damned elegant solution -- thank you...

However in trying to simplify my problem for presentation here, I think
I oversimplified a bit too much. Try this one:

>>> d = {}
>>> for x in [1,2,3]:
...     d[x] = lambda *args: args[0]*x
...
>>> d[1](3)
9

The lambda is going to have to take arbitrary arguments, so I can't
specify x=x before the arbitrary arguments (otherwise, it gets
overridden) and I can't specify it afterward (syntax error). :-/ Thanks!

-jag

On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 16:27 -0400, Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:18:15 -0400, Joshua Ginsberg <listspam at flowtheory.net> wrote:
> >So this part makes total sense to me:
> >
> >>>> d = {}
> >>>> for x in [1,2,3]:
> >...     d[x] = lambda y: y*x
> >...
> >>>> d[1](3)
> >9
> >
> >Because x in the lambda definition isn't evaluated until the lambda is
> >executed, at which point x is 3.
> >
> >Is there a way to specifically hard code into that lambda definition the
> >contemporary value of an external variable? In other words, is there a
> >way to rewrite the line "d[x] = lambda y: y*x" so that it is always the
> >case that d[1](3) = 3?
> 
> There are several ways, but this one involves the least additional typing:
> 
>     >>> d = {}
>     >>> for x in 1, 2, 3:
>     ...     d[x] = lambda y, x=x: y * x
>     ... 
>     >>> d[1](3)
>     3
> 
> Who needs closures, anyway? :)
> 
> Jp



From fraca7 at free.fr  Mon Oct  3 05:43:22 2005
From: fraca7 at free.fr (fraca7)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:43:22 +0200
Subject: windows service problem
In-Reply-To: <1128330845.762679.66680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128330845.762679.66680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4340fd3b$0$8938$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

JackPhil a ?crit :

> the problem is i can run the service in debug mode, and it seems works
> fine(i can connect the server with browser), but when i start the
> service in the services control panel, i can't connect the server, the
> server seems not start, and i can't stop the service.

Make sure it doesn't output anything to stdout or stderr, I've run into 
problems with that. I always include this kind of code in NT services:

class Devnull:
     def write(self, bf):
         pass
     def close(self):
         pass
     def flush(self):
         pass

sys.stdout = sys.stderr = Devnull()


From rsteiner at visi.com  Tue Oct 18 21:10:54 2005
From: rsteiner at visi.com (Richard Steiner)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:10:54 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com> <8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com> <azGVDpHpvOIa092yn@visi.com>
	<c8ke23-9it.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <e0ZVDpHpv+ke092yn@visi.com>

Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> spake unto us, saying:

>In comp.os.linux.misc Richard Steiner <rsteiner at visi.com> wrote:
>
>> Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
>> John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> spake unto us, saying:
>
>>>Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
>
>>>> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
>>>> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?
>>>
>>>Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.
>
>> MS-DOS 3.3 was the most popular DOS release back in 1987/1988.  I don't
>> recall there ever being a 3.4 release, though.
>
>We were talking sunOS. At least I was!

Heh heh...  :-)  That's what I get from reading part of a thread.  :-)

I never saw SunOS until Solaris 2.5 myself.  Not all that long ago...

-- 
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
  OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
       WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
                   The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Thu Oct  6 12:55:20 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:55:20 +0200
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <434556f9$0$8708$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

CppNewB wrote:
> I am absolutely loving my experience with Python.  Even vs. Ruby, the syntax 
> feels very clean with an emphasis on simplification.
> 
> My only complaint is that there doesn't appear to be a great commercial IDE

Why "commercial" ?


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 09:39:15 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:39:15 -0700
Subject: Tricky import question.
Message-ID: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

importedfiles = {}
for f in FileList
  f2 = f.split('.')[0]       # strip the .py, .pyc
  __import__(f2)
  s2 = f2+'.main()'          # main is the top file in each import
  c = compile(s2, '', 'eval')
  importedfiles[f2] =  eval(c)

'importedfiles' should hold an object reference to the main() function
within each imported file.

The problem is, the import function works but I can't get the object
reference into the imortedfiles dictionary object.  the code keeps
telling me

NameError: name 'C1_Dosing' is not defined.

in this instance C1_Dosing is the first file name in the filelist.  The
import worked, why not the compile ??

TIA.



From csselo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 12:04:07 2005
From: csselo at gmail.com (csselo at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 09:04:07 -0700
Subject: newbie  regex
Message-ID: <1129565047.255804.266190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi

I want to filter some strings,but i don t know how to use compile
method.

first character must be [a-zA-z] group and others can only be digits or
letters.

like

a24354trt,Tsd1234



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 03:47:47 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:47:47 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <di596t$86m$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-06, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at nospam.web.de>:
> 
>>>Suppose we have a typesystem which has the type ANY, which would mean
>>>such an object could be any type. You could then have homogenous lists
>>>in the sense that all elements should be of the same declared type and
>>>at the same time mix all kind of type in a particular list, just
>>>as python does.
>>
>>The you have JAVA Object or C void*. Which cause all kinds of runtime 
>>troubles.... because they essentially circumvene the typechecking!
> 
> 
> Why do you call this a JAVA Object or C void*? Why don't you call
> it a PYTHON object. It is this kind of reaction that IMO tells most
> opponents can't think outside the typesystems they have already
> seen and project the problems with those type systems on what
> would happen with python should it acquire a type system.
> 
[sigh]. No, it's just you being you. Diez' intention seemed fairly clear 
to me: he is pointing out that strongly-typed systems invariably fall 
back on generic declarations when they want to allow objects of any type 
(which, it seems to me, is what you were proposing as well).

In other words, you want Python to be strongly-typed, but sometimes you 
want to allow a reference to be to any object whatsoever. In which case 
you can't possibly do any sensible type-checking on it, so this new 
Python+ or whatever you want to call it will suffer from the same 
shortcomings that C++ and java do, which is to say type checking can't 
possibly do anything useful when the acceptable type of a reference is 
specified as ANY.

> 
>>>So how would this limit python.
>>
>>The limitation is that in static languages I must _know_ what type to 
>>cast such an ANY, before calling anything on it. Otherwise its useless.
>>
>>
>>>>even though ususally the contents of a list 
>>>>share some common behaviour. And that exactly is the key point here: in 
>>>>a statically typed world, that common behaviour must have been extracted 
>>>>and made explicit.
>>>
>>>
>>>Would my suggestion be classified as a statically typed world?
>>
>>See above.
> 
> 
> Your answer tells more about you then about my suggestion.
> 
Damn, I've been keeping away from this thread lest my exasperation lead 
me to inappropriate behaviour.

Is there any statement that you *won't* argue about?

leaving-the-(hopefully)-last-word-to-you-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 17 20:39:30 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:39:30 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <g0h8l15n5f0ijlgiopu052ti3t02u5sg6f@4ax.com>

On 17 Oct 2005 03:17:16 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>
>Which standards? Again: w3c is not an official standards organization.

What does it take in your book for a standards organisation to be
"official"  -- a Swiss head office, a room at the UN, a branch on the
US government tree?

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:04:23 2005
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (gsteff)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 00:04:23 -0700
Subject: line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1816.1128921679.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1816.1128921679.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128927863.163722.310000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Why do you want to know?  This list isn't a tool to get others to do
your homework.

Greg



From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Thu Oct 20 11:01:55 2005
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:01:55 -0500
Subject: Yes, this is a python question, and a serious one at that (moving
	to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2279.1129760612.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>	<200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>	<75DF16E6-AC4F-4ABE-A16C-0FAC7A089460@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2279.1129760612.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dj8bh1$2md$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

James Stroud wrote:

> I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Windows, the reasons for 
> such should be explicitly described, and not left to interpretation.

I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Linux ...
I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Mac ...
I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Ruby ...
I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Firefox ...
I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Waxed Dental Floss ...

People should not feel *required* to justify their decisions to c.l.py, 
especially if they are not trying to evangelize that choice. (FWIW, even 
from the original post it's very apparent that he's dissuading people 
from joining him.)

It is true that giving the reasons for a choice will help responders put 
some perspective on it, and perhaps prompt a few alternatives, but 
c.l.py is not your mother, and shouldn't require you to justify the 
validity of your lifestyle to it.


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:11:51 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:11:51 +0100
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<43464262.3040406@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510070811q18a298r@mail.gmail.com>

On 07/10/05, Eric Nieuwland <eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Ever cared to check what committees can do to a language ;-)

+1 QOTW.

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Wed Oct 19 15:05:58 2005
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:05:58 -0700
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
In-Reply-To: <3rmhdhFk29hgU1@individual.net>
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
	<3rmhdhFk29hgU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <1129748758.340831.30610@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I, too have often come up against the inconvenience of creating
libraries that I want to reuse but that do not want to incorporate into
the Python library.   I came up with this Python library addition to
automagically add the directory of where a module resides that I want
to import to the system path, so that I can simply add the module by
name without needing to worry about anything else.

The large advantage of this is that I can now import from adjacent
directories rather than subordinate ones.    For best results in large
projects with deep tree structure, the paths of the importing script
and the imported module should have at least 3 levels in common.  I do
not consider typing 3 levels of pathing as a hint to be a great
inconvenience.

It ain't perfect, it ain't Zen, but for me this has worked from Python
2.2 and up with very few problems for projects up to 1000 files.
Improvements, anyone?

The Eternal Squire

#----------------------relative.py---------------------
# Place in Python##\Lib
#
import sys
from   inspect import getfile
from   os.path import abspath


backslash = '\\'



def caller ():

    'name of the calling script'

    frame     = sys._getframe(1)
    if not frame:  return ''
    frame = frame.f_back
    if not frame:  return ''
    result = getfile (frame)
    if result[-4:].lower () in ['.pyc', '.pyo']: result = filename[:-4]
+ '.py'
    return abspath (result)



def append (path):

    'append relative path to system module search path'


    if not path:     return

    try:
        calling_script = caller ()

        top_path       = path.split          (backslash)[0]
        where          = calling_script.find (top_path + backslash)

        if where < 0:  return
        result         = calling_script [:where] + path

        if result not in sys.path:  sys.path.append (result)
        return result


    except:
        return ''
#---------------------end of relative.py---------------#

#---------------------"A\B\C\more levels\importer.py"-----------------#
#prototypical code, do not try to execute

import relative
relative.append ("\A\B\C\subpath")  # no file extension!
from module import whatsit               # module resides under subpath
whatsit ()



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 12:57:59 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:57:59 -0400
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <17248.65231.784511.11456@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2572.1130309174.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
	<IIWdnR05duRDpP3eRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<17248.65231.784511.11456@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510270957y5d1567f3g3fcd1605da783840@mail.gmail.com>

[DH]
>> It's a conflict between python's syntax for regex back references
>> and octal number literals.  Probably wasn't noticed until way too
>> ate, and now it will never change.

[skip at pobox.com]
> I suspect it comes from Perl, since Python's regular expression engine tries
> pretty hard to be compatible with Perl's, at least for the basics.

"No" to all the above <wink>.  The limitation to 99 in backreference
notation was thoroughly discussed on the Python String-SIG at the
time, and it was deliberately not bug-compatible with the Perl of that
time.

In the Perl of that time (no idea what's true now), e.g., \123 in a
regexp was an octal escape if it appeared before or within the 123rd
capturing group, but was a backreference to the 123rd capturing group
if it appeared after the 123rd capturing group.  So, yes, two
different instances of "\123" in a single regexp could have different
meanings (meaning chr(83) in one place, and a backreference to group
123 in another, and there's no way to tell the difference without
counting the number of preceding capturing groups).

That's so horridly un-Pythonic that we drew the line there.  Nobody
had a sane use case for more than 99 backreferences, so "who cares?"
won.

Note that this isn't a reason for limiting the number of capturing
groups.  It only accounts for why we didn't care that you couldn't
write a _backreference_ to a capturing group higher than number 99
using "\nnn" notation.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 03:49:43 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:49:43 +0200
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
In-Reply-To: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
Message-ID: <3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de>

Ron Garret wrote:
> Is this a bug or a feature?
> 
> class mydict(dict):
>    def __setitem__(self, key, val):
>      print 'foo'
>      dict.__setitem__(self, key, val)
> 
> 
>>>>d=mydict()
>>>>d[1]=2
> 
> foo
> 
>>>>d.setdefault(2,3)


Feature. If it wouldn't bypass __setitem__, how exactly would you make a 
default-item? Using __setitem__ implies a key. So if setdefault
was implemented as

def setdefault(self, v):
     self["SOME_DEFAULT_KEY_NAME"] = v

and later on one writes e.g. a HTML-page with a form input field named 
"SOME_DEFAULT_KEY_NAME" that gets stored in a dict - it would overwrite 
the default value.

So it has to bypass __setitem__, as otherwise it can't distinguish 
between "real" and the default value - the latter one is not allowed to 
have a key that is in any imaginable way used by the user.

Diez


From jwkenne at attglobal.net  Tue Oct 18 14:48:08 2005
From: jwkenne at attglobal.net (John W. Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:48:08 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> 
>>    It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's 
>>obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with 
>>Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or fraud.
> 
> 
> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.

If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have 
always objected to being governed at all."
   -- G. K. Chesterton.  "The Man Who Was Thursday"


From totalgeekdom at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 11:33:22 2005
From: totalgeekdom at gmail.com (totalgeekdom at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 08:33:22 -0800
Subject: Python -- CGI -- Take SQL database, make it download in CSV
Message-ID: <1130776402.387267.93750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I currently have a cgi-bin which I use to authenticate users against a
SQL database, which holds info about them, and their login info.

I would like to have the 'admin' section take part of the table and put
it in CSV and allow them to download it, somehow making it so that the
'members' cannot download it.

How it authenticates an admin --
Check User/pass
if correct:
    check if-member:
        print html-for-members
    check if-admin:
        print html-for-admins
if incorrect:
    print "enter correct creds"


So I would like to have a link in the html-for-admins, that could
re-auth them, and if it's correct allow a download of a csv file of
most of the sql table (I'd like to exclude the md5's  ;)  )

Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

Alex



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Fri Oct 21 09:47:36 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:47:36 -0500
Subject: pushing python to multiple windows machines
In-Reply-To: <1129900967.169902.5500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2357.1129895748.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129900967.169902.5500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pNydneLXmNvxbMXeRVn-vw@comcast.com>

Do you really need to install the interpreter or do you
want to install a Python application to a bunch of servers?
Using a combination of py2exe and InnoInstaller I push
applications (and services, and COM objects) to lots of
Windows servers just as normal setup.exe files which can
be distributed with lots of tools.

Larry Bates

shkelley at gmail.com wrote:
> hey tim -
> 
> Thanks for you input.  I'm looking at it from the Windows perspective
> of needing to push a python interpreter out to multiple machines.  I'll
> check out Moveable Python as you suggested.
> 
> thanks
> -shawn
> 


From renting at astron.nl  Fri Oct 14 10:24:11 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:24:11 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
Message-ID: <s34fdbc8.062@server7.nfra.nl>

I realy like developing PyQt applications using the Eric3 IDE. I find Qt really has a lot of high level functionality already available for you, I like the flexibility of the slot-signal system, I like that the Qt C++
maps very well into object-oriented Python though PyQt. You can just use the Qt C++ documentation.
Just check out Eric3 itself as an example of what you can do in PyQt. It's not yet ported to Qt4 AFAIK, but I suppose it will not take long. In Qt4 the licencing is no issue for me as I'm only writing GPL code anyway.
I don't know how it performs on OSX, I think it works fine, as Qt is available on OSX.

I don't know what you want in a text widget, but the kTextEdit I use comes with functions like checkSpelling(), undo(), copy(), paste(), setFont(). Hooking these up to for example a fontRequestor is no more work as adding both to the form in QtDesigner (integrated in Eric3), and connecting the appropriate signal and slot. It could be some of these are only available if you have KDE installed.
I realy like the Canvas allowing sprites, zooming, rotating, etc.

I've never done much with TkInter, so I can't compare. I think it's easier as wxwindows, it's easier as VCL/CLX and MFC. (I'm comming from the Windows/Borland C++/Delphi world)

The standard Python shell only has buildin support for the TkInter event loop AFAIK, I just heard ipython is more cross GUI toolkit in this regard.

I don't think there's any consensus. I think any of a Tk, Wxwindows, GTK or Qt based solution might work for you, depending on what you are used to. Tk seems to be most traditional Python, but I think it's ugly, and I realy like the high level functionality that Qt provides.

Adriaan Renting.
 
 
>>>Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> 10/13/05 10:17 pm >>> 
Is there any emerging consensus on the "best" UI for toolkit.  Tk  
never quite made it but from what I can see, both qt and wxWin are  
both doing fairly well in general. I'm already aware of the licensing  
issues surrounding qt (fwiw, I think their license fee for commercial  
use is eminently reasonable), so aside from that, I was wondering if  
there was any feedback readers could provide on the following: 
 
1) Which plays best with Python? Ideally, it would already have some  
higher-level python libraries to hide the grotty stuff that is almost  
never needed when actually implementing apps. 
 
2) Reliability of each? 
 
3) Useful external libraries for each? 
 
4) Ease of installation/use on OS X? 
 
Something with a genuinely useful text widget would be nice, but I  
know that's too much to expect...ah, TkText widget, where are you  
when I need you. 
 
 
Thanks, 
Ken 
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 



From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Mon Oct 10 14:38:29 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:38:29 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128794785.152776.116370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051008233140.77ad2c2e@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128941251.054780.324900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051010203829.55c3e4b0@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

> I am aware of some shortcomings and design flaws of Simulink,
> especially in the code generation area. I am interested by
> your paper nonetheless, please send me copy.

Ok no problem. Let me just a few days to strip any irrelevant data on
it...

> However, Simulink is used by many people on a day-to-day basis
> in the context of big, industrial projects. The claim that it
> is "next to unusable" is, in my book, an overstatement ...

Well the exact sentence is "next to unusable for our kind of projects".
You'll see the details on the paper, but I'm not joking.
For instance, under Simulink, our model is so big (well not so, but too
big for Simulink obviously), that you may have a loss of up to 40x in
performance compared to the model in C (how to optimize the Simulink
model is a whole other subject in itself). So to make it usable, we have
to use automatic code generation wich bring a whole new set of
problems... BUT our work is *very* specific, and I'm not talking about
Simulink in general. It may be perfect suited for others, it's just that
for us it's far from perfect...

> Scicos is not perfect either but you can hardly say that is
> is a simple clone of Simulink. No time and space to go into
> the details ...

I wasn't in charge of evaluating Scilab/Scicos, so I can only talk about
the conclusion : main motives to switch to Scilab/Scicos would be
because it's free, that's all. Report said that next to almost
everything Scilab/Scicos does, Matlab/Simulink can do, and more often
than not, do it much better.
So if you have a different report, I would be happy to read and transmit
it...

> Obviously, the python community is very dynamic, but how much
> support will you get in the very specific topic of continuous
> time systems simulation ?

Well some people already offered me their help. But I believe
that someone _has_ to begin alone some day...
Otherwise people who work on continuous system simulation would never be
interested in Python.

That's the beauty of open source : do what you can, but do it ! and hope
that someone else will come one day and use your work to build upon it.
Step by step you will have something usable (in theory).

> IMHO, an hybrid approach, such as the development of bridge
> to include Python components into Simulink/Scicos/Ptolemy/
> Modelica/pick_your_favorite_simulator may grant you more
> interest from the simulation community.

I already know some bridges like pymat or mlabwrap and I agree that a
way to include Python to Matlab/Simulink would be a great step.
But :

1) I think that it's Mathworks job to do it, and if they don't want to
do it, we'll never have a very good integration.

2) For our kind of projects and our kind of developers (mainly
non-IT engineers), I'm very reluctant to introduce too many different
technologies in a project. If we decided to go for Python, fine, let's
do the entire thing in Python/C. If we decided to go for Simulink, fine,
let's do the whole thing in Simulink/Matlab/C. Matlab, for algorithms,
can do almost the same things than Python and sometimes much better, so
if you have already Simulink (and so have the license) why go for Python
and struggle to have a good integration ?

Regards,

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> SB
> 
> 
> 
> Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> > Simulink is well fitted for small simulators, but when you run into
> > big projects, I find many shortcomings appears which made the whole
> > thing next to unusable for our kind of projects.
> > That's why I'm interested in Python by the way, it is not a simple
> > clone like Scilab/Scicos. It is a real language which bring its own
> > advantages, and its own shortcomings, which I find well suited for
> > our activity.
> >
> > If you want, I can send you a paper I wrote last year, detailing all
> > Simulink shortcomings. I doubt that this mailing list is interested
> > in such things...(and it's in French...).
> > Concerning Scilab/Scicos, I'm not really interested in a technology
> > primarily developed (INRIA and ENSPC) and used by France. Python and
> > all its libraries and communities are so much more dynamic !
> > And also I've heard that Scilab was developed in Fortran in a way
> > which make it rigid and that the sources are poorly documented, not
> > a good sign for an open source software (and Scilab isn't 'Free' for
> > the FSF).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >
> > On 8 Oct 2005 11:06:25 -0700, "S?bastien Boisg?rault"
> > <Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com> wrote :
> >
> > >
> > > Simulink is a framework widely used by the control engineers ...
> > > It is not *perfect* but the ODEs piece is probably the best
> > > part of the simulator. Why were you not convinced ?
> > >
> > > You may also have a look at Scicos and Ptolemy II. These
> > > simulators are open-source ... but not based on Python.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > SB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nicolas Pernetty a ?crit :
> > >
> > > > Hello Phil,
> > > >
> > > > Yes I have considered Octave. In fact I'm already using Matlab
> > > > and decided to 'reject' it for Python + Numeric/numarray + SciPy
> > > > because I think you could do more in Python and in more simple
> > > > ways.
> > > >
> > > > Problem is that neither Octave, Matlab and Python offer today a
> > > > framework to build continuous system simulator (in fact Matlab
> > > > with Simulink and SimMechanics, do propose, but I was not
> > > > convinced at all).
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > > >
> > > > On 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com
> > > > wrote :
> > > >
> > > > > Nicholas,
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe it
> > > > > can talk to Python.
> > > > > Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including
> > > > > having ODE solvers. I have successfully used it to model and
> > > > > simulate simple systems. Complex system would be easy to model
> > > > > as well, provided that you model your dynamic elements with
> > > > > (systems of) differential equations.
> > > > >
> > >
> 


From raims at dot.com  Fri Oct 28 13:20:30 2005
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:20:30 +0200
Subject: How to translate python into C
References: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130493304.961498.226200@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130493811.719479.160450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm4neu.lsv.raims@voodoo.myself>

Il 2005-10-28, Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> ha scritto:
> Thanks, Szabolcs. In fact, I want to reproduce a crush on cygwin. I
> used a session of python code to produce the crush, and want to
> translate it into C and reproduce it. Is the tools provided by you help
> with these issues? Of coz, I'll try them first. :)

Do you mean "crash" ?
Take a look at this: http://pycrash.sourceforge.net


-- 
Lawrence
http://www.oluyede.org/blog


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 21:10:28 2005
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 18:10:28 -0700
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <1128733400.812671.304850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128733400.812671.304850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128733828.644812.278970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
> Grant Edwards ha escrito:
> > While we're off this topic again topic, I was watching a BBC
> > series "Space Race" the other night.  The British actors did a
> > passable job with the American accents in the scenes at Fort
> > Bliss in Texas, but the writers wrote British English lines for
> > them to speak in their American accents...
>
>
> Continuing with this off-topic thread about british accent and
> movies...
> I've always asked myself why do Hollywood movies about the Roman Empire
> show the Emperors and all the nobles speaking with british accent?
> They were italians for God's sake!
>
> Anyway, I can't imagine Julius Caesar speaking like Vito Corleone...

Of course not! Vito Corleone was Sicilian.



From nbg at nbg.invalid  Tue Oct 25 10:22:53 2005
From: nbg at nbg.invalid (Not Bill Gates)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:22:53 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>

davids at webmaster.com wrote...

>     1) There is no other operating system worth selling. In this case, you 
> are right, you have no choice but to sell the Microsoft OS, but the deal 
> they're offering you harms you in no way. (Unless you intended to sell PCs 
> with no OS at all.)
> 
>     2) There are other realistic competing operating systems. In this case, 
> you were foolish to agree to Microsoft's deal. You lost out on the realistic 
> competing markets. That is, unless Windows only really was a better deal, in 
> which case you were wise to take the deal and have no reason to be upset.

The flaw with this is that business owners don't get to decide what 
the market wants.  And the market wanted the Microsoft OS.  Every 
other OS in the market had bit player status, via the economic 
principle called increasing returns. 

You either sell what the market wants, or you go out of business.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 19 04:40:37 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:40:37 +0100
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <1h4o6eo.4gi3s6xgesmzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<1h4n6ag.5uhq7a7xe1v4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<86ach6y6ta.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4o6eo.4gi3s6xgesmzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43560685.3000409@holdenweb.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
[... browser audience discussion ...]
>>What makes you think that the expenditure of effort is "totally out of
>>proportion"? In my experience, that isn't the case - at least if you
>>go into it planning on doing things that way. Retrofitting a site that
>>was built without any thought but "make it work in my favoriter
>>browser in my favorite configuration" can be a radically different
>>thing.
> 
> 
> Why, of course -- coding a site to just one browser would be foolish
> (though there exist sites that follow that strategy, it's still
> despicable).  What I'm talking about is sites that are _supposed_ to be
> able to support a dozen browsers, in three or four versions each, not to
> mention a dozen features each of which the user "might" have chosen to
> disable (for a total of 2**12 == 4096 possibilities).  Of course, the
> site's poor authors cannot possibly have tested the 4096 * 12 * 3.5
> possibilities, whence the "_supposed_ to be".
> 
> We ARE talking about moving from supporting 95% to supporting
> (*supposedly*!) 100%, after all -- very much into the long, *LONG* tail
> of obscure buggy versions of this browser or that, which SOME users
> within those last centiles may have forgotten to patch/upgrade, etc.
> And THAT is what makes the effort totally out of proportion (differently
> from the effort to go from 60% to 95%, which, while far from negligible,
> is well within sensible engineering parameters).
> 
> 
> 
>>>Maybe that's part of the explanation for the
>>>outstanding success of some enterprises founded by engineers, led by
>>>engineers, and staffed overwhelmingly with engineers, competing with
>>>other firms where marketing wield power...?
>>
>>You mean like google? Until recently, they're an outstanding example
>>of doing things right, and providing functionality that degrades
>>gracefully as the clients capabilities go down.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "until recently" in this context.  AFAIK,
> we've NEVER wasted our efforts by pouring them into the quixotic task of
> supporting *100%* of possible browsers that may hit us, with the near
> infinite number of combinations of browsers, versions and disabled
> feature that this would require.  One may quibble whether the target
> percentage should be, say, 93%, 95%, or 97%, and what level of
> degradation can still be considered "graceful" around various axes, but
> the 100% goal which you so clearly imply above would, in my personal
> opinion, be simply foolish now, just as it would have been 3 years ago.
> 

In mine, too. It's often useful to remember the so-called 80/20 rule 
which, in software terms, I often state as "you can get 80% of the 
functionality for 20% of the cost". Among other things I theorise that 
this accounts for the vast numbers of abandoned open source projects 
lurking on the Internet (but let's not follow that red herring any further).

Of course, if the final 20% of a project's functionality accounts for 
80% of the cost then the stark arithmetical truth would be that each 
functionality percentage point costs sixteen times what the first eighty 
points did.

In practice the situation is never linear, and the truth is that there 
is a situation of diminishing returns which rarely justifies supporting 
those final additional hold-outs with obsolete platforms. This is as 
much an economic decision as a marketing one, but a good engineer knows 
instinctively that there is a desirable cut-off point beyond which 
adding further functionality is a waste of engineering effort.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 07:03:16 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:03:16 +0200
Subject: generic xmerge ?
References: <1129545131.875544.122630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4kurr.y4wcn71rpq7x6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I was reading this recipe and am wondering if there is a generic
> version of it floating around ? My list is a tuple (date, v1, v2, v3)
> and I would like it to sort on date. The documentation doesn't mention
> how the items are compared and the example only use integers.
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/141934

I'm not sure what "my list is a tuple" mean (list and tuple being
different types) nor what this has to do with the recipe.  Anyway...
sequences are compared lexicographically -- first items first, then
second items if the first items are equal, and so on.  So, if you have a
list X whose items tuples and want X sorted on the tuples' first items,
X.sort() will suffice -- if the tuples never have equal first-items, or
if you're OK with second-items getting compared when the first-items are
equal.  If you want to sort on first-items ONLY, leaving the tuples in
the same order in the list when their first-items are equal:

import operator
X.sort(key=operator.itemgetter(0))


Alex


From alex at moreati.org.uk  Sat Oct  8 19:11:21 2005
From: alex at moreati.org.uk (Alex Willmer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:11:21 GMT
Subject: CSV like file format featured recently in Daily Python URL?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1757.1128782512.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128688213.7906.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.1757.1128782512.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128813077.7706.40.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 07:44 -0800, EP wrote:
> Was it something like ARFF?  http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~ml/weka/arff.html

Yes that was it thankyou. Although it would seem there isn't a general
python module, rather a Cookbook script to perform conversion to SQL. I
must have confused ARFF with HDF.

> Google "ARFF Python":  http://www.google.com/search?q=arff+python

Curiously, when I just performed that search, this thread was on the
first page of results as a supplemental result.



From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 22 00:47:27 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:47:27 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

> That's basic economics. Something which can be allowed or ignored or even
> encouraged when done by small businesses in a competitive market can
> easily become harmful and bad for the economy when done by a monopolist or
> duopolist in an uncompetitive market.

    Microsoft goal is and should be their own success, not the success of 
the economy or the market in general. Microsoft's status of a "monopolist" 
is only meaningful if you define the market as "desktop operating systems 
for 32-bit x86 computers". There is no way Microsoft could have expected the 
market to be defined in this way and no way to argue that Microsoft had any 
reason to believe their conduct was illegal.

    DS




From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Mon Oct 31 05:27:12 2005
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:27:12 +0100
Subject: Problem With Insert with MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2716.1130717245.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <000001c5ddab$e0bce8b0$0401a8c0@server2005>
	<mailman.2716.1130717245.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3sm9s1Fonmm0U1@news.dfncis.de>

Gerhard H?ring schrieb:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> David Mitchell wrote:
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am a complete beginner with Python. I've managed to get mod_python up and
>>running with Apache2 and I'm trying to a simple insert into a table in a
>>MySQL database. 
>>
>>I'm using the MySQLdb library for connectivity. I can read from the database
>>no problem, but when I do an insert, the value never gets added to the
>>database, even though there is no error, and the SQL is fine (I print out
>>the SQL statement in the function). When I copy and paste the sql from my
>>browser and insert directly into MySQL, it works fine.
>>[...] Am I doing something obviously incorrect here?
> 
> 
> It appears you forgot to call .commit() on the connection to commit your
> transaction. From what you tell, it also looks like the MySQL
> commandline tool defaults to autocommit (i. e. each statement is wrapped
> in an implicit BEGIN ... COMMIT.
> 
> If you have no idea what a transaction is or what the heck the BEGIN,
> COMMIT or ROLLBACK commands are for (corresponding to .commit() and
> .rollback() methods of the DB-API2 connection object, BEGIN is issued
> implicitly), then the MySQL documentation will probably answer that.
> 

What sort of table do you use? MyISAM isn't transaction oriented, and 
that's the standard. So that most probably isn't the problem.

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Thu Oct 27 13:41:39 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:41:39 -0700
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510270931r52a18d0em29168b9702d2c748@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>
	<312cfe2b0510270931r52a18d0em29168b9702d2c748@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051027174139.GC2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 27, Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
> 
>    my goal really was to do:
>    try:something(1);except:pass
>    try:something(2);except:pass
>    try:something(3);except:pass
>    ...
>    for about 20 lines.

If you just want to ignore the exceptions while saving space/typing,
you could equivalently do::

    try:
        something(1)
        something(2)
        # ...
    except:
        pass

or::

    try:
        something(1); something(2); # ...
    except:
        pass

or::

    try:
        for i in range(yourlimit):
            something(i)
    except:
        pass

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 19 07:11:27 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 11:11:27 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dj56ir$2of$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlcaev.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-19, David Schwartz schreef <davids at webmaster.com>:
>
> "Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message 
> news:slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...
>
>> A company figures out something is wrong with one of their new models.
>> They have two options. They can repair the problem or they can leave
>> it as is and brace the laswsuits that will likely follow. An analysis
>> shows that the first option is likely to cost more than the second.
>>
>> As far as I understand you, the company should ship the faulty model.
>
>     It is impossible to respond to this with anything shorter than many 
> pages. Google for "prudent predator" if you want all sides to this question. 
> The short answer is "maybe".
>
>     To the people who think that you obviously shouldn't, ask them the 
> following hypothetical: You have a million pounds of grain. Destroying it 
> will probably cost at least ten lives due to starvation. The grain, however, 
> is contaminated, and selling it will likely make ten people sick, of which 
> three will probably die. Should you destroy the grain?

You could sell it, making it clear to those you sell it to that it is
contaminated grain and explaining what the risk are in consuming this grain.

>     You do have an obligation to the shareholders not to commit fraud in 
> their name.

Well then you can't ship the model unless you also make the problem
public. Because shipping the model while you know it has problems
is IMO fraud. Free trade IMO involves correct information about what
is traded.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From sherm at dot-app.org  Sun Oct  9 07:07:20 2005
From: sherm at dot-app.org (Sherm Pendley)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:07:20 -0400
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m21x2vj6dz.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>

"Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> writes:

> there is a MacPerl program posted in 1998 that uses Mac's speech synth
> to sing Daisy Bell.
> See:
>
> http://bumppo.net/lists/macperl/1998/11/msg00412.html
>
> can anyone modify it so it runs out of the box on today's OS X?

For pre-Tiger OS versions you'll need to install the Mac::Carbon module from
CPAN, if you haven't done so already. Tiger ships with it pre-installed.

Aside from that, only trivial modification are needed to update the script.
Just Replace #!perl with #!/usr/bin/perl, and remove the last line, which
calls MacPerl::Quit().

sherm--

-- 
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org


From striker at trip.net  Thu Oct  6 13:34:46 2005
From: striker at trip.net (striker)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 10:34:46 -0700
Subject: Book "Python and Tkinter Programming"
Message-ID: <1128620086.240847.235490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Does anyone who has this book willing to sell it.  Please e-mail me the
condition and any other details if you are interested.
Thanks,
Kevin



From c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr  Thu Oct 13 08:43:23 2005
From: c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr (Peres)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:43:23 +0200
Subject: graphic memory & animation
Message-ID: <001201c5cff3$b2d67990$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>

Hello!
Python is great!... but the erasing of the graphic memory is slow (I used surf.fill from Pygame).
Does anyone know how to erase the screen faster, in animated graphics?

With many thanks

Valerie Peres
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From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct  6 13:10:08 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:10:08 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434545b7$0$662$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <86mzlmpo5r.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> writes:
> Mike Meyer a ?crit :
>> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>> 
>>>Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>Declarations also allow easier writable closures. Since the declaration
>>>happens at a certain scope, the run time can easily find the correct
>>>scope when a variable is rebound.
>> If it happens at runtime, then you can do it without declarations:
>> they're gone by then. Come to think of it, most functional languages -
>> which are the languages that make the heaviest use of closures - don't
>> require variable declarations.
> Well, can you give a single example of such language ? Because all the
> functionnal language I know but one do need variable declaration : lisp,
> scheme, ocaml, haskell do need variable declaration ! Erlang do not ...

Scheme and lisp don't need variable declerations. Last time I looked,
Schemd didn't even *allow* variable declerations.

>> Only in a few cases. Type inferencing is a well-understood
>> technology, and will produce code as efficient as a statically type
>> language in most cases.
> Type inferencing only works for statically typed languages AFAIK ! In a
> dynamically typed languages, typing a variable is simply impossible as
> any function may return a value of any type !

I think we're using different definitions of statically typed
here. A language that is statically typed doesn't *need* type
inferencing - the types are all declared! Type determines the thypes
by inferenceing them from an examination of the program. So, for
instance, it can determine that this function:

def foo():
    return 1

Won't ever return anything but an integer.

>>>I think language matters shouldn't be setlled by personal preferences.
>> I have to agree with that. For whether or not a feature should be
>> included, there should either be a solid reason dealing with the
>> functionality of the language - meaning you should have a set of use
>> cases showing what a feature enables in the language that couldn't be
>> done at all, or could only be done clumsily, without the feature.
> Wrong argument ... with that kind of things, you would just stick with
> plain Turing machine ... every single computation can be done with it !

"Computation" is is not the same thing as "Functionality". If you
think otherwise, show me how to declare an object with a Turing
machine.

And there's also the issue of "clumsily". Turing machines are clumsy
to program in.


>> Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
>> effect the programing process. And we have conflicting claims about
>> whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
>> solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
>> personal preferences.
> Well, so why not *allow* for variable declaration ? Languages like Perl
> does that successfully ... you don't like : you don't do ! you like :
> you do ! A simple option at the beginning of the file tell the compilor
> if variable declaration is mandatory or not !

Perl is a red herring. Unless it's changed radically since I last
looked, undeclared variables in Perl have dynamic scope, not lexical
scope. While dynamically scoped variables are a powerful feature, and
there have been proposals to add them to Python, having them be the
default is just *wrong*. If I were writing in Perl, I'd want
everything declared just to avoid that. Of course, if Python behaved
that way, I'd do what I did with Perl, and change languages.

>> Antoon, at a guess I'd say that Python is the first time you've
>> encountered a dynamnic language. Being "horrified" at not having
>> variable declarations, which is a standard feature of such languages
>> dating back to the 1950s, is one such indication.
> Dynamic language and variable declaration are non-related issues ! You
> can have statically-typed language without variable declaration (i.e.
> BASIC) and dynamically-typed language with (i.e. Lisp) ! Please, when
> you says something about languages, at least give 1 name of language
> asserting what you're saying !

Declerations and typing are *also* non-related issues. See Perl. Also
see the subject line.

>> Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
>> paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
>> compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
>> level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
>> experienced with something like Pascal would consider
>> essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.
> Well, could you be more specific once more ? I can't that many paradigm
> only available on dynamically typed languages ... beside duck-typing
> (which is basically a synonym for dynamically-typed)

I said "dynamic languages", *not* "dynamically typed languages". They
aren't the same thing. Dynamic languages let you create new functions,
variables and attributes at run time. Python lets you delete them as
well.  This means that simle declarations can't tell you whether or
not a variable will exist at runtime, because it may have been added
at run time.

>> Given these kinds of differences, prior experience is *not* a valid
>> reason for thinking that some difference must be wrong. Until you have
>> experience with the language in question, you can't really decide that
>> some feature being missing is intolerable. You're in the same position
>> as the guy who told me that a language without a goto would be
>> unusable based on his experience with old BASIC, FORTRAN IV and
>> assembler.
> After more than two years of Python programming, I still fill the need
> for variable declarations. It would remove tons of bugs for little works
> and would also clarify the scope of any single variable.

Maybe you're still writing code for a language with declerations? I
never felt that need. Then again, I came to Python from a language
that didn't require declerations: Scheme.

>> Pick one of the many languages that don't require declarations. Try
>> writing a code in them, and see how much of a problem it really is in
>> practice, rather than trying to predict that without any
>> information. Be warned that there are *lots* of variations on how
>> undeclared variables are treated when referenced. Python raises
>> exceptions. Rexx gives them their print name as a value. Other
>> languages do other things.
> Well, IMO, worst case is silently give a default value, like PHP (or
> apparently Rexx) does ... this can hide bugs for month if a single
> test-case is missing !
>
> Well, in the end, I would really like an *option* at the beginning of a
> module file requiring variable declaration for the module. It would
> satisfy both the ones who want and the ones who don't want that ...

Nope. It would just change the argument from "Python should have ..."
to "You should always use ..." or "Module foo should use ...".

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 23:10:57 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:10:57 -0700
Subject: Extention Woes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2273.1129754855.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2273.1129754855.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129777857.676019.263340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Forgot, var declartions

        int can_han;
        int com;
        char len;
        char dat[8];



From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 24 15:59:33 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:59:33 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message 
news:slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...

>>     Microsoft had something you need so badly that you could not go into
>> business without it. So they demanded from you that you pay them what 
>> their
>> software was actually worth to you. That is not extortion. Everyone who
>> sells something tries to get the maximum possible value for it.

> If a company wants to be paid for things it didn't deliver, then I think
> that is extortion. Microsoft want te be paid a license on windows for
> P.C.'s that were sold without windows.

    I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary. I can walk up 
to you and say "if you want me to mow your lawn, you must pay me $1 every 
time you smoke a cigarette". So long as you can say "no" and all that 
happens is that I don't mow your lawn (which I have no obligation to do 
anyway), it isn't extortion.

    The funny thing is that if Microsoft really had a monopoly on x86 
operating systems, their deal would have been fair. Since you can't use a 
computer without an operating system and theirs would have been the only 
one.

    DS




From eight02645999 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 20:06:25 2005
From: eight02645999 at yahoo.com (eight02645999 at yahoo.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 17:06:25 -0700
Subject: how to return correct value of update stmt
Message-ID: <1129680385.808139.97850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi
i use odbc to update a table in a database but i always get return
value of -1
even though i tried to return an integer. the table is updated though
...
sql = """
               update table
               set column = 0
               where col = "%s"
               select @@rowcount

    """  % (var1)
....
try:
        s = odbc.odbc(connectstring)
        cur = s.cursor()
        res = cur.execute(sql)
        s.commit()
        s.close()
        cur.close()
        s = None
        cur = None
        print res
        return res
    except:
        print 'error while processing ', sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value


how to properly get a positive return ?
thanks



From gordonb.7vhwj at burditt.org  Sun Oct  9 00:44:25 2005
From: gordonb.7vhwj at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 04:44:25 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>

>>HTML enables a heck of a lot of problems:  "web bugs" in email,
>>links to fake sites that appear as real ones in what shows up
>>on the screen, Javascript viruses, denial-of-service attacks
>>(pages that open two windows when you close one), etc.
>>
>>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>>
>>I liken it more to hating all viruses because some of them 
>>install keyloggers.
>
> I take it then you avoid browsers or use Lynx?  

Last time I checked, it was impossible to send me an unsolicited
web site.  It is trivial, however, to send unsolicited email or
post unsolicited articles on USENET.  

No, I don't trust Lynx to read email or USENET articles.

>No you FIX the
>problems 

And how do you fix the problem of unsolicited USENET articles?
(*ALL* of them are unsolicited to someone).  Or unsolicited
email?  

>rather than wear a hair shirt. Same for email. Why should
>rich expressions only be permitted to those with websites.  

Web sites can't send you stuff unsolicited, and most of them have
enough stake in their reputation to keep the obnoxious stuff off
of them, since if they have viruses chances are you can't trust
buying anything from them.  "web bugs" aren't a problem with web
sites since the server logs log *all* the hits, and they don't have
to use hidden ones.  And I don't visit web sites without a good
reason to do so (that excludes seeing the URL in some SPAM).  Oh,
yes, and Javascript is turned off.

>Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.

And what does sharing photos (attachments) have to do with HTML?
USENET text groups are not the appropriate place for photos.

					Gordon L. Burditt


From chris at kateandchris.net  Tue Oct 18 13:20:01 2005
From: chris at kateandchris.net (Chris Lambacher)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:20:01 -0400
Subject: How do I pass args using Python Windows
In-Reply-To: <001f01c5d37f$9233e8f0$a100a8c0@reyesr2>
References: <001f01c5d37f$9233e8f0$a100a8c0@reyesr2>
Message-ID: <20051018172001.GB27125@kateandchris.net>

Have a main function that you pass the arguments into.  This entry on Guido's
blog should help you out:
http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=106&thread=4829

-Chris


On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 09:02:10PM -0400, Ross Reyes wrote:
>    Hi -
>    I wonder if someone might be able to lend a quick answer to this.
> 
>    I have a python script that I normally run from the command line on
>    Solaris.
>    i.e.    %pythonscript <filein> > <fileout>
> 
>    I decided to try IDLE on Windows to do some debugging with the debugger
>    (which I
>    unfortunately dont' have on Solaris 5.7 )
> 
>    So my question is: How do I pass the command line args when using the
>    Windows IDLE/Python
>    environment?
> 
>    Thanks for any tips.
> 
> 
> 
> 

> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 16:43:12 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:43:12 -0400
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:

> Mike,
>
> Here is what I am trying to do:
>
> **** WHAT ****
> -) a client opens his/her browser and click on some button which triggers my
> plugin
> -) the plugin starts to communicate with a server on some URL.
> -) the communication between the server and the client involves a few
> exchanges: data from client to server, then from server to client,.....
> -) just for info (I do not think it's relevant to my problem) on each side
> (server and client) there is a smart card (that's why I need a plugin) and
> the information exchanged comes from/go to the smart cards
> -) The smart card on the server side eventually decides whether or not the
> smart client on the client side is OK and tells so to the cgi script which
> acts accordingly
>
> ***** HOW (if there's a better way let me know please) ******
> As I have not found any better solution yet, I am trying to do the following
> (on the server there is an html file and a cgi file)
>
> -) the plugging opens the correct url which has a form with a "click" button
> -) the customer clicks on the button
> -) the server "puts" some information in a hidden form field (info from
> local smart card)
> -) the pluggin fetches the information from the form field and gives it to
> its local smart card 
> ....... (this a couple of time)
> -) the cgi script gets the final verdict from the server smart card and acts
> accordingly.
>
> I hope that is clearer.

Some. To continue clarifying:

The phrase "cgi script" refers to a server-side script that is run in
response to the user clicking something on the client. That's what you
expect it to be, right?

Do you expect the plugin to display a form? Or to ouput a form that
the client will display?

You've got lots of stuff going on here. I count at least five programs
and three network connections. How much is working, and which parts
are you trying to do in Python?

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mensanator at aol.com  Sat Oct  1 00:29:18 2005
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 30 Sep 2005 21:29:18 -0700
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon [was Re: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum]
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1128140958.754503.322170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:02:14 -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote:
>
> > axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk writes:
> >
> >> I wonder if his postings are related to the phases of the moon? It
> >> might explain a lot.
> >
> > Yes, it would. Note that the word lunatic is derived from the Latin word
> > luna, meaning moon.
>
> Yes, lunatic is derived from luna, but that doesn't mean the two are
> connected. The ancients believed a lot of crap (the world is flat, black
> people aren't human, thunder is the sound of god's fighting, buying
> over-valued dot-com stock is a good investment) and "phases of the moon
> affecting behaviour" was one of them.
>
> People are really bad at connecting cause and effect. See this thread for
> a simple example:
>
> http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=42;t=000228;p=1
>
> A skeptical policeman who says he doesn't actually believe the moon
> affects behaviour nevertheless reports that "last weekend" things were
> really crazy, and it was a full moon. Somebody writes in to correct him:
> no, the full moon is actually "tomorrow".
>
> This shows how cognitive biases can fool us. Even though he was skeptical,
> the cop noticed the extra crazy behaviour on this particular weekend, and
> manged to fool himself into thinking it matched a full moon.
>
> See here for more details, plus references to research:
>
> http://skepdic.com/fullmoon.html

But correlations can exist even if the cause does not. There is a
correlation between the equinox and balancing an egg. But not
_because_ of the equinox, but because people only try it on the
equinox. Hence, egg balancing only happens on the equinox is a
true assertion.

> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven.



From christian at spam.not  Fri Oct 21 03:00:20 2005
From: christian at spam.not (Christian)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:00:20 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
Message-ID: <43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

> 
> The closest thing you can do is that:
> 
> -myScript.py--------------------------------------
> print 'export MY_VARIABLE=value'
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> -myScript.sh--------------------------------------
> python myScript.py > /tmp/chgvars.sh
> . /tmp/chgvars.sh
> --------------------------------------------------

Can I write a .py script that calls a .sh script that executes the 
export command and then calls another .py script (and how would the 
first .py script look)?

That would be much more what is my basic problem.


Thanks

Chris


From lidenalex at yahoo.se  Sat Oct  8 08:43:45 2005
From: lidenalex at yahoo.se (Alex)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 05:43:45 -0700
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
Message-ID: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

My native language is not English so I just wonder how you pronounce
wxPython.

vi-ex python
double-you-ex python
wax-python

or something else

Thanks



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Oct  5 16:07:33 2005
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 22:07:33 +0200
Subject: Class methods
In-Reply-To: <434420CD.6060908@designaproduct.biz>
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
	<43441FF2.6000002@designaproduct.biz>
	<434420CD.6060908@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <20051005200733.GA18786@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> >Oh man, it has been a long time I have read such an disturbing question.
> >
> >RTMF here:  http://docs.python.org/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-14
> >  
> >
> I feel I was a bit harsh.

Of course, those posts do keep the Google count for the famous
four-letter-abbreviation down (-;

Gerrit.

-- 
Temperature in Lule?, Norrbotten, Sweden:
| Current temperature   05-10-05 21:59:48   10.7 degrees Celsius ( 51.3F) |
-- 
Det finns inte d?ligt v?der, bara d?liga kl?der.


From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Sat Oct 22 09:46:42 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 06:46:42 -0700
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <43589F1F.8080305@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129647504.536405.156280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2226.1129659316.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129795405.446874.294130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43589F1F.8080305@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1129988802.727467.154910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> Kay Schluehr wrote:
> > Robin Becker wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I thought that methods were always overridable.
> >>In this case the lookup on the
> >>class changes the behaviour of the one and only property.
> >
> >
> > How can something be made overridable that is actually overridable? I
> > didn't know how to better express the broken polymorphism of Pythons
> > properties than by stating it as a pleonasm about the used get and set
> > methods. This way a property don't ever have to be redefined in
> > subclasses if get_x, set_x etc. are changed.
> >
> > Kay
> >
>
> well I guess that's the ambiguity of human language. Clearly when I
> assign to a normal attribute I am changing its value; assigning to a
> property or descriptor does something that is not so obvious. Changing
> the behaviour of such an attribute could be done by inheritance as
> suggested. The new class has overridden the property. When I want to do
> that on an instance I have first to create a mutable version of the
> descriptor where the mutability is on the instance not the class. I call
> the action of changing the base descriptor behaviour 'overriding', but
> perhaps that's not the correct word. What do you suggest?
> --
> Robin Becker

I would suggest to take a step back and start with Raymond Hettingers
descriptor definition:

"In general, a descriptor is an object attribute with "binding
behavior", one whose attribute access has been overridden by methods in
the descriptor protocol. Those methods are __get__, __set__, and
__delete__. If any of those methods are defined for an object, it is
said to be a descriptor."

http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

The definition is a little confusing since we have to identify the
descriptor object that implements one of the descriptor methods
__get__, __set__ and __del__ with an object attribute that is assigned
by the descriptor ( as object not attribute ). Otherwise we can assert
that a descriptor becomes effective only if it is used as an object
attribute. The meaning / essence of a descriptor is to assign
attributes by a descriptor to alter binding behaviour but it's
essentially an object that can be handled quite differently. To make
the destinction clear I will talk about "descripted" attributes.

Now we can talk unambigously about "overriding" the descriptor by means
of overriding the descriptor methods in subclasses. In case of
"properties" we pass certain functions into property() that will be
wrapped into descriptor methods. Thereby property() is itself a
descriptor. If we use methods of the class where the descripted
attribute is defined, overriding has no effect on the descriptor. The
inheritance hierarchies of descriptors and classes that define
descripted attributes do not correspond.

One way of establishing a pseudo-correspondence I've already presented.
But maybe one can do it better without decorators? Remember that
property() is a descriptor factory and there is no intrinsic need to
pass functions into a factory function. Why not passing strings that
are names of methods?

For brevity only __get__ should be defined here:

class described_by(object):
    def __init__(self, fget=""):
        assert isinstance(fget, str)
        self.fget = fget

    def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
        if obj is None:
            return self
        if self.fget is None:
            raise AttributeError, "unreadable attribute"
        return getattr(obj.__class__, self.fget)(obj)


class A(object):
    def __init__(self, x):
        self._x = x

    def get_x(self):
        return self._x

    x = described_by("get_x")

class B(A):
    def get_x(self):
        return self._x**2

>>> a = A(7)
>>> a.x
7
>>> b = B(7)
>>> b.x
49

Regards,
Kay



From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Fri Oct 14 17:54:40 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:54:40 -0400
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129326880.3372.68.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On non-Windows system there are a ton of ways to do it--this is almost a
whole field unto itself. :) (D-BUS, fifos, sockets, shmfs, etc.) In
Windows, I wouldn't have a clue. 

I guess this is a hard question to answer without a bit more
information. :)

On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 14:45 -0700, dcrespo wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> How can I get a raised exception from other thread that is in an
> imported module?
> 
> For example:
> 
> ---------------
> programA.py
> ---------------
> 
> import programB
> 
> thread = programB.MakeThread()
> thread.start()
> 
> ---------------
> programB.py
> ---------------
> import threading, time
> 
> class SomeException(Exception):
>     pass
> 
> class MakeThread(threading.Thread):
>     def __init__(self):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
> 
>     def run(self):
>         i = 0
>         while 1:
>             print i
>             i += 1
>             time.sleep(1) #wait a second to continue
>             if i>10:
>                 raise SomeException()
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Daniel
> 



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Thu Oct 13 12:53:01 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 16:53:01 GMT
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>
	<1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.11.21.33.19.546178@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrndksub2.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:01:23 GMT, Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:30:23 -0700, Mystilleef wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Thank you. That's all I needed. For some reason, I had always assumed
>> forking was an expensive process. I guess I was ill-informed.
>
> In a loop, yes, it's expensive.

It depends on what you mean by expensive -- web servers can fork for each
HTTP request they get, in real-world scenarios, and get away with it.

> Done once, it's usually not unacceptable.

In fact, I can't think of a scenario where it /would/ be unacceptable ;-)

But back to the original problem: I can't really see why anybody would need
the "let my terminal go" feature. Is there a reason why 'gvim foo.txt&'
isn't good enough?

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Oct 11 18:03:11 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:03:11 +0200
Subject: Nicer way of strip and replace?
In-Reply-To: <dihb4t$t43$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <dihb4t$t43$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3r2r4vFh9durU1@uni-berlin.de>

> I replace commata with dots, then delete leading/trailing "s then add to 
> a sum after converting it to a float.
> This looks ugly (I htink)  and I wonder if there is a nicer way to strip 
> commata and change the comma to a dot already when reading in.

It's not ugly - it's necessary.

> Or should i do it with a shell script before processing in python?

Which would make it less "ugly"?

Diez


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 09:18:10 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:18:10 +0100
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510060618m349401dey@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 Oct 2005 05:55:14 -0700, Flavio <fccoelho at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now what would you do if you wanted to pass a lot of variables (like a
> thousand) to a function and did not wanted the declare them in the
> function header?

I'd think twice. If on reflection I decided I really wanted to do it,
I'd pass them all in a dictionary.

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From richard at zync.co.uk  Thu Oct  6 09:54:41 2005
From: richard at zync.co.uk (Richard Gration)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:54:41 +0100
Subject: check html file size
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
	<m2u0fvtr61.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.06.13.54.38.317430@zync.co.uk>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:39:18 -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote:

> Richard Gration <richard at zync.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Are you fucking seriously fucking expecting some fucking moron to
>> translate your tech geeking fucking code moronicity? Fucking try writing
>> it fucking properly in fucking Perl first.
> 
> Good fucking job! That's the funniest fucking response I've ever fucking seen
> to Xah's fucking moronistic fucking nonsense.

Thanks, Sherm. I knew someone would get it. I think Bear and Ulrich
haven't yet been exposed to Xah "in full effect" ;-) They're probably
denizens of the Scheme group which seems to be a new entry on Xah's "this
newsgroup needs spamming" list ;-)

> Lenny Bruce would be so fucking proud.

LOL


From rdm at rcblue.com  Wed Oct  5 18:07:24 2005
From: rdm at rcblue.com (Dick Moores)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:07:24 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] New Python book
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051005150130.0661b790@rcblue.com>

Magnus Lie Hetland's new book, _Beginning Python: From Novice to
Professional_ was published by Apress on Sept. 26 (in the U.S.). My copy 
arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. Very much worth a look, IMHO. 
But what do the experts here think?

<http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/159059519X>

Dick Moores
rdm at rcblue.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 13:33:39 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:33:39 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4vprp.6l0d8o1yvhiyiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2443.1130088213.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h4vrqi.113fl81hckmdvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     Alex> I've seen enough occurrences of "lambda x: x" in Python code with
>     Alex> a generally functional style that I'd love to have
>     Alex> operator.identity (and a few more trivial functions like that) for
>     Alex> readability;-)
> 
> But, but, but [Skip gets momentarily apoplectic, then recovers...]
> "operator.identity" is way more to type than "lambda x: x".  Plus you have
> to remember to import the operator module. <0.5 wink>

But, it's way more readable, IMHO.


> Not to mention which (from "pydoc operator"):
> 
>     [The operator module] exports a set of functions implemented in C
>     corresponding to the intrinsic operators of Python.
> 
> Last time I checked, Python didn't have an intrinsic "identity" operator.

attrgetter and itemgetter don't exactly correspond to "intrinsic
operators", either (getitem, and the built-in getattr, are more like
that)... yet module operator exports them today, offering more readable
(and faster) alternatives to "lambda x: x[y]" and "lambda x: getattr(x,
y)".

 
> For which reason, I'd be -1 on the idea of an identity function, certainly
> in the operator module.

I'm not at all wedded to having 'identity' in the operator module (which
may arguably be the wrong placement for 'attrgetter' and 'itemgetter'
too).  But identity is a useful primitive for a functional style of
Python programming, so having it SOMEwhere would be nice, IMHO.


Alex


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 23:32:12 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:32:12 -0700
Subject: Reading IEEE 754 format strings directly into a floating point
	array
In-Reply-To: <435075e5$0$54633$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <435075e5$0$54633$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <dipt7t$lrb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> I am querying an instrument in a measurement application.
> 
> The values are returned as IEEE format binary floating point numbers. There
> are 4 bytes per point. Multiple points are not separated by any delimiter.
> 
> Is it possible to read these directly into a floating point array of the
> size of the string ?
> 
> Alternatively, I could write a routine to do it, but wanted to find out if
> there was a simpler solution.

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-array.html
http://numeric.scipy.org

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From asma61 at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct 10 18:33:42 2005
From: asma61 at dsl.pipex.com (DaveM)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:33:42 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1725.1128718388.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roqlk1l1big6vtn8utrj5t6enuqse4q2kg@4ax.com>

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:57:14 -0500, Terry Hancock
<hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>In a Texas dialect, "their" is construed to mean "singular third person
>of indeterminate gender". It's considered rude to use "it" to apply to
>a sentient, and "his or her" is "PC" (and therefore a great sin ;-) ).

Working in a hospital, it always jars when a patient of unknown sex is
referred to as "It". I always use they/them/their, so it's not unique to
Texas.


DaveM


From rowen at cesmail.net  Mon Oct 31 17:23:20 2005
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:23:20 -0800
Subject: [Ann] RO package 2005-10-31
Message-ID: <rowen-12E73E.14232031102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

RO package 2005-10-31 is now available from
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ROPython.html>

What is it?
A package of python utilities I wrote to support a telescope control 
interface. RO has a strong emphasis on the Tkinter GUI library, 
networking, astronomy and cross-platform support (unix, MacOS X and 
Windows). For more information, follow the link above.

Changes include:
- RO.DS9 is smarter about finding ds9 and xpa and can now handle 
byteswapped arrays.
- RO.Prefs now can map old pref names to new (allowing one to migrate a 
preference name).

For a full version history see:
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ROVersionHistory.html>

-- Russell


From jschamba at physics.utexas.edu  Thu Oct 27 10:50:21 2005
From: jschamba at physics.utexas.edu (Jo Schambach)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:50:21 -0500
Subject: sys.exit call from pythonw.exe gives error
Message-ID: <djqpc8$c75$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>

I wrote a python GUI with tkInter and installed it on a windows machine
with the .pyw extension, so it will be executed from pythonw.exe instead
of python.exe, since I didn't want the console window to appear.
My application exits with a call to sys.exit. However, when this call is
executed under pythonw.exe I get an error popup window with the
following messeage:

---- start quote ----
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
Runtime Error!
Program: C:\Python24\pythonw.exe

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate in an unusual way.
Please contact the application support team for more information
---- end quote ----

What am I doint wrong here?

Jo



-- 
Dr Joachim Schambach
The University of Texas at Austin
Department of Physics
1 University Station C1600
Austin, Texas 78712-0264, USA
Phone: (512) 471-1303; FAX: (814) 295-5111
e-mail: jschamba at physics.utexas.edu


From python_it at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 03:42:37 2005
From: python_it at hotmail.com (Python_it)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:42:37 -0700
Subject: mod_python
Message-ID: <1129016557.060339.136600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Today I was busy to install mod_python.

I have put the line

LoadModule python_module libexec/mod_python.so

into the httpd.conf file.
It Works!
Apache load mod_python /3.2.2.b Python2.4

But my problem is where I have to place te following code in de
httpd.conf?

    <Directory C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\>
        AddHandler mod_python .py
        PythonHandler mptest
        PythonDebug On
    </Directory>

Because al the tutorials write this. But where?

If I try to put the code some where,
apache give the following message by testing the configure:
Multiple <Directory> arguments not (yet) supported
But what i have to change or replace.

I test with the next file:

C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\
mptest.py

from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
   req.content_type = 'text/plain'
   req.send_http_header()
   req.write('mptest.py\n')
   return apache.OK

Is this code enough for testing?



From dong.ge.wh at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 03:42:48 2005
From: dong.ge.wh at gmail.com (Gonnasi)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 00:42:48 -0700
Subject: How to processing multi redirect?
In-Reply-To: <1130351143.543653.224040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130339501.262577.230280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130351143.543653.224040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130398968.136175.86740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Tons of thanks for your help!
Now I can fetching the page success.
Thansk again.

--
Gonnasi



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 14 22:10:50 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:10:50 GMT
Subject: Class property (was: Class methods)
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
	<mailman.1595.1128589518.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435064c2.19514039@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:05:10 +0200, Laszlo Zsolt Nagy <gandalf at designaproduct.biz> wrote:

>Hughes, Chad O wrote:
>
>> Is there any way to create a class method?  I can create a class 
>> variable like this:
>>
>Hmm, seeing this post, I have decided to implement a 'classproperty' 
>descriptor.
>But I could not. This is what I imagined:
>
>class A(object):
>    _x = 0
>    @classmethod
>    def get_x(cls):
>        print "Getting x..."
>        return cls._x
>    @classmethod
>    def set_x(cls,value):
>        print "Setting x..."
>        cls._x = value
>    x = classproperty(get_x,set_x)
>
>Usage example:
>
> >>>print A.x
>Getting x
>0
> >>>A.x = 8
>Setting x
> >>>print A.x
>Getting x
>8
>
>I was trying for a while, but I could not implement a 'classproperty' 
>function. Is it possible at all?
>Thanks,
>
>   Les
>
Using Peter's advice (not tested beyond what you see):

 >>> class A(object):
 ...     _x = 0
 ...     class __metaclass__(type):
 ...         def get_x(cls):
 ...             print "Getting x..."
 ...             return cls._x
 ...         def set_x(cls,value):
 ...             print "Setting x..."
 ...             cls._x = value
 ...         x = property(get_x, set_x)
 ...
 >>> A.x
 Getting x...
 0
 >>> A.x = 8
 Setting x...
 >>> A.x
 Getting x...
 8
 >>> vars(A).items()
 [('__module__', '__main__'), ('__metaclass__', <class '__main__.__metaclass__'>), ('_x', 8), ('_
 _dict__', <attribute '__dict__' of 'A' objects>), ('__weakref__', <attribute '__weakref__' of 'A
 ' objects>), ('__doc__', None)]
 >>> A._x
 8
 >>> vars(A).keys()
 ['__module__', '__metaclass__', '_x', '__dict__', '__weakref__', '__doc__']

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 31 09:30:07 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:30:07 +0100
Subject: Need Python Pro for Help!! Plzz
References: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
	<Xvp9f.25974$m%6.13990@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <dk59pf$61m$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Hunsley wrote:

> 2) Why should someone willing to help you enter into a private email
> discussion? Newsgroups like this exist to help people

looks like "Fan" wants to run his own group:

    http://groups.google.com/group/newtopython/about

    "There are no experts or PHD's, all are simple users, even i also am
    new to python. So. forget com.lang.python if ur new to python."

if someone feels that the huge number of PhD experts on comp.lang.python
can be a bit overwhelming, my recommendation is to check out this list:

    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

</F> 





From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 00:45:30 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 21:45:30 -0700
Subject: An interesting question about "print '\a'"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2454.1130128641.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2454.1130128641.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130129130.235027.34280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I thought that is just a "terminal" thing(extend ASCII that interpreted
by the terminal)? If you have a terminal attached to a host, shouldn't
this be making sound on the terminal rather than the server ? This not
alsa or output to the server device, but straightly sending '\a' back
to the client machine I believe.

Anthony Liu wrote:
> We know that if we do
>
> print '\a'
>
> the bell will sound.
>
> Now, why do I hear the sound on my local machine when
> I run a python script on a remote host?
>
> I understand if I hear it when I do
>
> print '\a'
>
> on my local machine.
>
> Does the command get sent back to the client machine?
>
> Thanks.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 08:47:04 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:47:04 -0500
Subject: C Extension - return an array of longs or pointer?
In-Reply-To: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129121392_1305@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

All the veteran programmers out there can correct me, but the way I did 
it in my extension was this:

static PyObject *wrap_doNumberStuff(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
	char* in = 0;
	char* x = 0;
	long* result = 0;
	int i = 0;
	PyObject* py = PyTuple_New()
	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"ss",&in, &x);
	if(!ok) return NULL;

	result = doNumberStuff(in,x):
	len = sizeof(result)/sizeof(long)
	for(i;i < len; i++)
		PyTuple_SET_ITEM(py, i,Py_BuildValue("l",*result[i])	
}

Simple enough idea...i'm not quite sure if I've done everything 
correctly with the pointers, but I'm sure you can figure that out, the 
algorithm is simple enough.

> Hi,
>    I have been posting about writing a C extension for Python...so far,
> so good.  At least for the "simple" functions that I need to wrap.
> 
> Ok, my c function looks like...
> 
> MY_NUM *doNumberStuff(const char *in, const char *x) { ... }
> 
> MY_NUM is defined as, typedef unsigned long MY_NUM;  (not sure if that
> matters, or can i just create a wrapper which handles longs?)
> 
> anyhow..for my wrapper I have this..
> 
> static PyObject *wrap_doNumberStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject args) {
>     char *in = 0;
>     char *x = 0;
>     long *result = 0;
>     int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &in, &x);
>     if (!ok) return 0;
> 
>     result = doNumberStuff(in, x);
> 
>     return Py_BuildValue("l", result);
> }
> 
> ...my question is...in the c code, result is a pointer to an array of
> longs, how can I get the returned result to be a list or something
> similar to an array in Python?
> 
> ...I also have a function which returns a character array (denoted by a
> char *)...would it work the same as the previous question?
> 
> Thanks!!
> 


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From steve at rueb.com  Sun Oct  2 03:06:26 2005
From: steve at rueb.com (Steve Bergman)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 02:06:26 -0500
Subject: Python 3! Finally!
In-Reply-To: <Xns96E27802B8766duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <dhk1ds$654$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<Xns96E27802B8766duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <433F86F2.7050505@rueb.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:

>Did you download the file using Firefox? It seems to have a 'feature' that 
>when you download a file and there is already a file of the same name it 
>finds the first number in the filename and increments it.
>
>  
>
Yes, isn't that fun?  This has been a known problem with a bug filed for 
well over a year.  Perhaps closer to a year and a half.  Not that the 
bug has been simply ignored.  It has been hashed and rehashed over and 
over.  Someone proposes a solution.  Firefox devs come back and say that 
the solution will not work in some corner case on Windows.  Someone 
proposes a solution.  Firefox devs come back and say that it will 
adversely affect some Linux users.  Someone proposes a solution.  
Firefox devs come back and say that certain MacOS users could experience 
a problem with that.  Someone proposes that in the case that there is a 
filename collision, the user might simply be prompted to decide on a 
filename. Firefox devs totally reject that idea (and rather 
vehemently).  You see, that would totally freak out the end user, and 
that is *certainly* not a good solution.

So the interim solution, for over a year, has been to leave it broken 
for everyone...




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct  3 12:48:31 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:48:31 +1000
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 2005-10-03, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>> A language where variable have to be declared before use, would allow
>>> to give all misspelled (undeclared) variables in on go, instead of
>>> just crashing each time one is encounterd.
>>
>> Wrong. It would catch at compile-time those misspellings which do not 
>> happen to coincide with another declared variable.
> 
> Fine, it is still better than python which will crash each time
> one of these is encountered.

Python doesn't crash when it meets an undeclared variable. It raises an
exception.

This lets you do things like:

try:
    False
except NameError:
    print "bools are not defined, making fake bools..."

    False = 0
    True = not False

    def bool(obj):
        if obj: return True
        else: return False

    # not identical to real bools, but close enough to fake it (usually)


>> Moreover, it adds a burden on the programmer who has to write all those 
>> declarations,
> 
> So? He has to write all those lines of code too.
> 
> People often promote unittesting here. Writing all those unittest is
> an added burden too. But people think this burden is worth it.

Yes, but there is no evidence that pre-declaration of variables is a
burden worth carrying. It doesn't catch any errors that your testing
wouldn't catch anyway.


> I think writing declaration is also worth it. The gain is not as
> much as with unittesting but neither is the burden, so that
> balances out IMO

Speaking as somebody who spent a long time programming in Pascal, I got
heartedly sick and tired of having to jump backwards and forwards from
where I was coding to the start of the function to define variables.

It got to the stage that sometimes I'd pre-define variables I thought I
might need, intending to go back afterwards and delete the ones I didn't
need. When the programmer is having to to jump through hoops to satisfy
the compiler, there is something wrong.


>> and worse it adds a burden on everyone reading the code who 
>> has more lines to read before understanding the code.
> 
> Well maybe we should remove all those comments from code too,
> because all it does is add more lines for people to read.

Well-written comments should give the reader information which is not in
the code. If the comment gives you nothing that wasn't obvious from the
code, it is pointless and should be removed.

Variable declarations give the reader nothing that isn't in the code. If I
write x = 15, then both I and the compiler knows that there is a variable
called x. It is blindingly obvious. Why do I need to say "define x" first?

Pre-defining x protects me from one class of error, where I typed x
instead of (say) n. That's fine as far as it goes, but that's not
necessarily an _error_. If the typo causes an error, e.g.:

def spam(n):
    return "spam " * x  # oops, typo

then testing will catch it, and many other errors as well. Declaring the
variable doesn't get me anything I wouldn't already get.

But if it doesn't cause an error, e.g.:

def spam(n):
    if n:
        return "spam " * n
    else:
        x = 0  # oops, typo
        return "spam " * n
    
This may never cause a failure, since n is always an integer. Since my
other testing guarantees that n is always an integer, it doesn't matter
that I've created a variable x that doesn't get used. Yes, it would be
nice for the compiler to flag this, but if the cost of that niceness is to
have to define every single variable, I can live without it.


>> Also there is 
>> increased overhead when maintaining the code as all those declarations have 
>> to be kept in line as the code changes over time.
> 
> Which is good. Just as you have to keep the unittests in line as code
> changes over time.

That is not the same at all. Changing variable declarations needs to be
done every time you modify the internal implementation of a function.
Changing the unittests, or any other testing for that matter, only needs
to be done when you change the interface.

In principle, if you have an interface designed up front before you write
any code, you could write all your tests at the start of the project and
never change them again. You can't do that with variable declarations,
since every time you change the implementation you have to change the
declarations.


-- 
Steven.



From broek at cc.umanitoba.ca  Sun Oct  9 17:35:56 2005
From: broek at cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:35:56 -0500
Subject: __Classes and type tests
Message-ID: <43498D3C.90908@cc.umanitoba.ca>

Hi all,

The code below exhibits an attempt to refer to the type of a __Class 
from within a method of that class. I've been unable to figure out how 
to make it work as I want, and would appreciate any insight.

The problem emerged out of a bad design that the good folks on the 
tutor list helped me repair. With that repair, I no longer need nor 
want to do this sort of thing in actual code. But the academic issue 
"How/Can it be done?" still itches.


class _OneUnderBase(object):
      def __init__(self):
          if type(self) == _OneUnderBase:
              print "From _OneUnderBase"
          else:
              print "From subclass",

class __TwoUnderBase(object):
      def __init__(self):
          # What to write in the if type() test to secure same
          # behaviour as _OneUnderBase
          if type(self) == __TwoUnderBase:
              print "From __TwoUnderBase"
          else:
              print "From subclass",

class SubOne(_OneUnderBase):
      def __init__(self):
          super(SubOne, self).__init__()
          print "SubOne"

class SubTwo(__TwoUnderBase):
      def __init__(self):
          super(SubTwo, self).__init__()
          print "SubTwo"

s1 = SubOne()
s2 = SubTwo()


When run, this gives:

 >>>
 From subclass SubOne
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:/Documents and Settings/Owner/My 
Documents/PythonFiles/foo.py", line 28, in ?
     s2 = SubTwo()
   File "C:/Documents and Settings/Owner/My 
Documents/PythonFiles/foo.py", line 24, in __init__
     super(SubTwo, self).__init__()
   File "C:/Documents and Settings/Owner/My 
Documents/PythonFiles/foo.py", line 12, in __init__
     if type(self) == __TwoUnderBase:
NameError: global name '_TwoUnderBase__TwoUnderBase' is not defined
 >>>

So, the _OneUnderBase version works fine. I've been unable to work out 
what to write in the __TwoUnderBase version to make it work the same.

(In case it is not clear, I'm aiming at the output:
 From subclass SubOne
 From subclass SubTwo
)

I *think* I understand how __ name mangling works when making 
references from one module to another. But I cannot work it out 
reference to the class itself from within a __ class.

Should it matter: Python 2.4.2 on Win32.

Thanks,

Brian vdB



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Oct 13 15:43:22 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:43:22 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <1129226551.255303.46270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>
	<1129192705.632826.145210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129225263.705977.181050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2020.1129225709.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129226551.255303.46270@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051013194322.GA8583@ActiveState.com>

[Brett Hoerner wrote]
> Thanks, looking at their site I can't find a Platform SDK for XP... am
> I looking for the Windows 2003 Server SDK...?  Seems counter-intuitive

Yes, I believe that is the one I am using. MS seems to aim for minimal
intuitive-factor with Platform SDK version naming.

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 19:36:21 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:36:21 -0700
Subject: lambda functions within list comprehensions
References: <1130621124.101346.67750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57711.1t6uely1atckigN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130624219.667062.290740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h57c0h.kcl38fefrcdrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Max Rybinsky <sunspire at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for explanation, Alex.
> It appears that almost every beginner to Python gets in trouble with
> this ...feature. :)

Almost every beginner to Python gets in trouble by expecting "do what
I'm thinking of RIGHT NOW"-binding, which no language offers: in other
words, such beginners sometimes expect late binding where Python binds
early, and, vice versa, they at other times expect early binding where
Python binds late.  Not ALWAYS, mind you -- what they expect depends on
what would appear to them to be most convenient for their immediate
needs on each separate occasion.  Some other languages try to follow
beginners and offer "do what I mean" semantics -- when using such
languages, one ends up in a battle of wit against the compiler's guesses
about one's intentions.  Python instead offers extremely simple rules,
such as: any name is looked up each and every time it's evaluated (and
at no other times); evaluation of function headers happens completely at
the time the 'def' or 'lambda' evaluates, while evaluation of function
bodies happens completely at the time the function is _called_.  By
learning and applying such simple rules there can be no surprise about
what is evaluated (and, in particular, looked up) when.  E.g., consider
the difference between the following two functions:

def early(x=whatever()):
   ...

def late():
   x=whatever()
   ...

In 'early', the call to whatever() is part of the function's header, and
therefore happens at the time the 'def' statement executes -- and thus
name 'whatever' means whatever it means at THAT time (if at that time
it's not bound to anything, the 'def' statement fails with an
exception).

In 'late', the call to whatever() is part of the function's body, and
therefore happens each time the function is called -- and thus name
'whatever' means whatever it means at THAT time (if at that time it's
not bound to anything, the call fails with an exception).


Alex


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 09:05:47 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:05:47 +0100
Subject: Windows vs Linux
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A4@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

"Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> writes:

> But as far as I can tell
> from my experience and from the docs -- and I'm not near a 
> Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall line x 
> in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2 etc. 
> Or can you?

[Bernhard Herzog]
> You can.  It works fine on this box, at least.
> GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(1)-release (i386-pc-linux-gnu)
> libreadline 4.2a

Thanks. I'll take another look at it when I get a chance.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 14 03:29:07 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:29:07 +0200
Subject: Help with cPickle for deserializing datetime.datetime instances
References: <dinj0p$ot1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <dinmn3$akd$00$2@news.t-online.com>

Mingus Tsai wrote:

> When?these?three?statements?run,?the?IDLE?crashes!

Is there a traceback that you can provide (cut and paste)?

Peter
 



From eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  7 09:56:34 2005
From: eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl (Eric Nieuwland)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:56:34 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <43464262.3040406@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<43464262.3040406@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>

Robin Becker wrote:

> As mentioned earlier only a dictator can make such decisions and of 
> course as
> with many dictatorships the wrong decision is often made. There's no 
> such thing
> as a benevolent dictatorship.

Ever cared to check what committees can do to a language ;-)

--eric



From http  Mon Oct  3 01:41:46 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 22:41:46 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > Privilege separation is considered a good coding practice.  How does
> > Python help it?
> 
> With conventions and name mangling. Which are only slightly less
> effective than the C++/Java technic for doing the same thing.

That's not what privilege separation means.  It means that the
privileged objects stay secure even when the unprivileged part of the
program is completely controlled by an attacker.  It's not used
enough.  It's typically done with separate processes and maybe
separate user accounts:

  http://plastictree.net/articles/privsep/ar01s02.html

and in the case of host-security modules (used in banking), it's done
with separate hardware.  Java (but not C++) can do it with private
variables and so forth (applet security depends on that).  It's a
reasonable style to use in any program that uses files, sockets, etc.,
and has to cope with possibly-malicious data.

> I was going to suggest Jython as a better bet for getting something
> rexec-like to work.

Yeah, that's the thing, we should not think of Python as meaning one
particular implementation.


From the.theorist at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 23:45:06 2005
From: the.theorist at gmail.com (the.theorist)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 20:45:06 -0700
Subject: Setting Class Attributes
In-Reply-To: <435edfbe.968502823@news.oz.net>
References: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<435e91b1$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1130281061.552882.134540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435edfbe.968502823@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1130298306.236356.131170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

So that it'll be easier to remember the next time I find myself in the
same situation on a different task, I'll extend the discussion
somewhat.

Coming from C, I had expected that I'd get a new empty dict every time
the __init__ function ran. Guido (or some other benevolent) had decided
to implement things a little bit differently in Python. I understand
that most everything is a pointer in Python. (which gives us cool stuff
like recursive data structures) So I was wondering, they could have
made the behavior C-like, but chose not to. The decision to bind
everything in the function to the same default args must be a
reflection of the Python Ideology. Philosophically, why was it done
this way, and how does it fit in with Python's design as a language.

(hopefully, reasons will help me remeber why things are the way they
are, so I don't forget in the future)
-----------------
I've only been using Python for a few weeks. (Chose it over Perl,
because Python syntax is cleaner). I really like Python (over C), as it
makes coding and debugging much faster and easier.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 17 08:28:09 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 12:28:09 GMT
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4knsn.1tihnpm15d5y4lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrndl6uur.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2162.1129546889.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndl766p.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-17, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-17, Alex Martelli schreef <aleaxit at yahoo.com>:
>> 
>>><themightydoyle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
>>>>a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
>>>>timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.
>>>
>>>Definitely a better architecture.  Anyway, one supported way for a
>>>thread to raise an exception in a different thread is function
>>>thread.interrupt_main(), which raises a KeyboardInterrupt in the *main*
>>>thread (the one thread that's running at the beginning of your program).
>>>
>>>There's also a supported, documented function to raise any given
>>>exception in any existing thread, but it's deliberately NOT directly
>>>exposed to Python code -- you need a few lines of  C-coded extension (or
>>>pyrex, ctypes, etc, etc) to get at the functionality.  This small but
>>>non-null amount of "attrition" was deliberately put there to avoid
>>>casual overuse of a facility intended only to help in very peculiar
>>>cases (essentially in debuggers &c, where the thread's code may be buggy
>>>and fail to check a keep-alive flag correctly...!-).
>> 
>> 
>> I find this rather arrogant. It is not up to the developers of python
>> to decide how the users of python will use the language. If someone
>> has use of specific functionality he shouldn't be stopped because his
>> use is outside the intentions of the developers.
>> 
> The developers have to support (at no cost) what the users do,

Only in so far that correct programs behave correctly. The developers
are not obligated to correct buggy programs. They have every right to
say that if a programmor can handle certain concepts he should seek
help with that concept elsewhere.

> so if 
> they want to make use of certain features inaccessible to users who are 
> likely to go wrong then that's up to them.

But the way it is made inaccessible has nothing to do with knowing
how to use the feature. That you can dable with C-extententions, pyrex
or ctypes says nothing about your ability to handle threads that
raise exceptions in each other.

>> Just suppose you are writing a chess program. You let the program
>> "think" while it is the users move, but this thinking has to be
>> interrupted and some cleanup has to be made after the users move
>> has made a lot of this thinking obsolete by his move. Such code
>> could be mixture of loops and recursion that makes use of a simple
>> flag to end it all, unpractical. Use of an exception raised from
>> somewhere else would IMO in this case be an acceptable choice.
>> 
> In *your* opinion, possibly. In my opinion it would seem to make more 
> sense to have the worker thread code examine a shared flag and raise an 
> exception at some convenient point in its calculation cycle.

What it there is no such convenient point? What if you have a number
of differnt routines that recursively call each other each with its
own number of nested loops. If you want something that is a bit
responsive you will have to put a check for this flag in any loop.

> Otherwise 
> you have to write the worker thread to be capable of handling 
> asynchronous signals, which is a notoriously difficult task. I presume 
> this is why Alex commented that he thought the OP's "better solution" 
> was "definitely a better architecture."

IMO the flag is the better architecture in this case because python
can't interrupt a tread with an exception while that thread is in
C-code.

>> Why should the coder of this software have to go through this
>> deliberate set up attrition, to get at this functionality, just
>> because it wasn't intented to be used in such a way by the
>> developers?
>> 
> Because otherwise people who know no better will use the feature for 
> purposes where it's not the best way to achieve the required 
> functionality, leading to yet more endless discussions about why "it 
> doesn't work".

Then don't react to those questions. A lot of questions about threads
are already answered as follows: "Don't use threads", "use twised" or
"If you have to use threads, use Queues". IMO there is nothing wrong
with telling people that if they want to use certain features it is
expected they know what thet are doing.

> Asynchronous signalling between threads is an accident 
> waiting to happen in the hands of an inexperienced programmer.

So? Do we want python to be limited to features that can't
cause problems in the hands of an inexperienced programmer?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From afa.NOSPAM at neuf.fr  Fri Oct 28 17:57:09 2005
From: afa.NOSPAM at neuf.fr (Amaury)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:57:09 +0200
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <1130533587.452875.167870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130531874.710810.39050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xwdid3e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130533587.452875.167870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43629eb2$0$41151$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Sam Pointon a ?crit :
>>unzip doesn't seem to work for me...
> 
> 
> It's not a part of the standard Python distribution, but this is a
> naive implementation (it doesn't react well to the list's contents
> having different lengths).
> 
> def unzip(seq):
>     result = [[] for i in range(len(seq[0]))]
>     for item in seq:
>         for index in range(len(item)):
>             result[index].append(item[index])
>     return result
> 
> 
>>>>unzip(zip(range(5), 'abcde'))
> 
> [[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e']]
> 

unzip() could be also be written like this:

def unzip(seq):
     return zip(*seq)

Faster and nicer, isn't it?

Except that it returns a list of tuples:
 >>>unzip(zip(range(5), 'abcde'))
[(0, 1, 2, 3, 4), ('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e')]

--
Amaury


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Mon Oct 10 14:30:40 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:30:40 -0700
Subject: convert char to byte representation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434ab2f6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Philipp H. Mohr wrote:
> I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a string with
> its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a char into its byte
> representation. 
ord('a') == 97; chr(97) == 'a'; "ord" gives you the value of the byte.

> e.g. everything between $ and * needs to be xor:
> 	$GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,40,25,51,287,00,05,25,103,44*
> to get the checksum.

Probably you want a byte-array here, rather than going char-by-char.
Try:
     import array
     base = ('$GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,'
             '40,25,51,287,00,05,25,103,44*')
     bytes = array.array('b', base[1 : -1])
     for i in reversed(range(len(bytes))):
	bytes[i] ^= bytes[i-1]
     result = bytes.tostring()

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 06:56:59 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:56:59 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:58 +0200, Jeroen Wenting wrote:

> My point is that Microsoft made computers that were more than glorified 
> gaming consoles affordable for the common man.

Microsoft has never made a computer in its existence. Not one. They are a
software company. The only hardware they sell are keyboards and mice.


> They are the ones who lowered the price of shrinkwrapped software for home 
> and office application from thousands or tens of thousands to hundreds of 
> dollars.

Yeah, if you ignore Apple, Wordperfect, Adobe, Aldus, Wordstar, and dozens
of other software suppliers.

Is it possible for you to get your arguments even more wrong? What's next?
Microsoft invented the transistor?


-- 
Steven.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 17 20:42:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:42:31 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<divdik$vmj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<dj1flg$njb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86h8l15n3odeetug7j231fi9rb3jrauo7h@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:29:36 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    By the way, this is based on the same flawed premise that a lot of 
>post-Y2K griping was based on. It went like this, "wow, we get all concerned 
>and spent all this money on a problem that never even happened". Well, 
>perhaps it didn't happen because we were all concerned and spent all this 
>money on it.

The worry was that the work would not be completed in time. The work
had to be done or the programs would simply stop working.  There was
no way to avoid the expense.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 15:42:50 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:42:50 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.2386.1129923014.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_wb6f.5055$q%.3309@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks Paul but I was not clear:

the html page is separate from the python script, it calls the python script
when the button is clicked.

The indentation error must be because of my cut and paste.

PS: My goal is to be able to exchange data between the server and the client
(browser plugin) as I have not yet found an easier way.

Regards,

Philippe




Paul McNett wrote:

> Philippe C. Martin wrote:
>> PS: If my question is not clear, I am trying to "share" the form between
>> the client and server.
>> 
>> just as many sites out there allow you to modify existing data:
>> 1) the server pops up a form with your data in it.
>> 2) the client can modify it and submit.
>> 
>> I know this is a _basic_ question, sorry.
> 
> When debugging Python cgi scripts, it is helpful to run the scripts from a
> command line just to make sure there aren't any compiler errors. Depending
> on how the server is set up, you'll get a server error or just a blank
> page if your script won't compile. When I run your script directly as I
> suggest, here's what I get:
> 
> pmcnett at sol:~$ python test.py
>    File "test.py", line 23
>      <html>
>      ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> D'oh! You needed to surround the html with quotes to make it a string, as
> in:
> 
> print """
> <html>
> ...
> </html>
> """
> 
> I don't really understand your original problem, but perhaps this will
> help get you rolling again.
> 
> 



From andrew.markebo at comhem.se  Wed Oct 12 04:15:17 2005
From: andrew.markebo at comhem.se (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:15:17 GMT
Subject: win32com, generating the cache programaticaly?
References: <m3oe5wtdz0.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>
	<1129096273_887@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <m3psqbjgmj.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>


| You can use win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch
| to automatically generate the makepy file for an object's library
| when the object is created.  Use the bForDemand option to
| only generate the code for objects as needed.

Drats, I get an:

 raise TypeError, "This COM object can not automate the makepy process
 - please run makepy manually for this object"

Thanx anyway!

 /Andy

-- 
 Feet up, heads down - keyboard still in the middle


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Tue Oct 11 08:58:04 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:58:04 +0200
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
References: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<434ba819$0$38698$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<dig9k9$6nh$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<1129035156.328142.216850@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <digcst$cb2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

George Sakkis wrote:
> "Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:
<snip>
>>I think I'll re-write to use a list instead
> 
> 
> Actually in most cases you don't need to assume it's a list; any
> iterable is usually good enough. You can always turn it into a list (or
> a tuple or a set or..) in the function if you really have to. So when
> you do have to and when you don't ? You don't have to if all you do is
> iterate over the elements. This is true even if you want to iterate
> more than once; just use the itertools.tee() function to create N
> independent iterators. To sum up, a better signature for your function
> is likely to be "def fn(iterable, cmp=cmp)".

Yep, that sounds like a plan :)

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct  5 18:17:42 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:17:42 +0200
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
In-Reply-To: <1128545979.146190@nntp.acecape.com>
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>
	<slrndk8d0c.ael.klaus@main.szn.dk>
	<1128545979.146190@nntp.acecape.com>
Message-ID: <43445107$0$28273$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Mike wrote:
> So it seems link.replace() function reads whether the first option is 
> utf-8 and converts the second option automatically to utf-8?  How do I 
> prevent that?

Not sure what an option is... if you are talking about parameters,
rest assured that <string>.replace does not know or care whether any
of its parameters is encoded in UTF-8. Also not sure where you got
the impression UTF-8 could have to do anything with this.

Regards,
Martin


From chase at youknowwho.com  Sun Oct  2 05:24:17 2005
From: chase at youknowwho.com (Joseph Chase)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:24:17 GMT
Subject: Problems posting with urlencode
Message-ID: <5HN%e.61089$mb4.14795@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>

I have the following form :


<form action="/auction/create/" method="post"><p><label 
for="auction_created">Created</label><br /></p>
<p><label for="auction_user">User</label><br /><input id="auction_user" 
name="auction[user]" size="30" type="text" value="" /></p>
<p><label for="auction_auction_title">Auction title</label><br /><input 
id="auction_auction_title" name="auction[auction_title]" size="30" 
type="text" value="" /></p>
<p><label for="auction_auction_url">Auction url</label><br /><input 
id="auction_auction_url" name="auction[auction_url]" size="30" type="text" 
value="" /></p>
<p><label for="auction_modification_rec">Modification rec</label><br 
/><input id="auction_modification_rec" name="auction[modification_rec]" 
size="30" type="text" value="" /></p>
<p><label for="auction_state">State</label><br /><input id="auction_state" 
name="auction[state]" size="30" type="text" value="" /></p><input 
name="commit" type="submit" value="Create" /></form>


I post the form data with the following calls:

        params = urllib.urlencode({"auction[user]" :user, 
"auction[auction_title]": auction_title,"auction[auction_url]": auction_url, 
"auction[modification_rec]" :recommendation, "auction[state]=": 
state,"commit":"Create"})

        print "Storing...."
        data = urllib.urlopen(self.baseUrl,params)


When I go and view the inserted record, the record exists, but the field 
values are null.  It is my thinking that the backend needs the "id" value 
for each input value; how do I add that data to the urlencode() call?

When I utilize the above form, all is inserted and all of the field values 
appear.  What data am I not accounting for with my program; for its obvious 
that the browser is sending something to the server that my application is 
not.

Thanks. 




From eight02645999 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 01:21:16 2005
From: eight02645999 at yahoo.com (eight02645999 at yahoo.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 23:21:16 -0700
Subject: query a port
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.30.05.14.58.2000@wolf.com>
References: <1130642480.233982.197760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.05.14.58.2000@wolf.com>
Message-ID: <1130653276.745449.31030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

thanks alot!
that's all there is to it..so it's just a simple connect.

Dan M wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:21:20 -0700, eight02645999 wrote:
>
> > hi
> > in python, how do one query a port to see whether it's up or not?
> > thanks
>
> I'm an absolute beginner, but let's see if I can help. Assuming you want
> to check a port on another machine,
>
> import socket
> port=25			# Port we want to test
> host=machine.to.test	# Either IP address or FQDN
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> try:
> 	s.connect((host, port))
> 	print "We made the connection"
> except socket.error:
> 	print "Sorry, that port is not open"
> s.close
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> Dan



From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct 14 09:56:14 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:56:14 +0100
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <7xu0fkw6ps.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <IoCBKo.9xx@bath.ac.uk>
	<7xu0fkw6ps.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <b6evk1tu7tvkj8so8cth4rqn38anh7enu4@4ax.com>


> > Not so: you disable Java, Javascript and plugins.  You leave the ability 
> > to format, colour and hint documents.  This is not /that/ difficult.
> 
> Don't forget disabling Unicode.  

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2005/02/15/firefox_to_disable_idn_support_as_phishing_defense.html

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 23:09:48 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:09:48 -0700
Subject: Extention Woes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2273.1129754855.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2273.1129754855.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129777788.636342.173450@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I tried Ctypes, but it was giving me tons of problems in the install
phase, and so I decided it'd just be better to use an extention module.
It's the type of stuff that could be perfectly done with ctypes, but...
Oh well. Also, I've done all but this last little piece with
extentions, might as well finish it.

Exact stuff.
C Code (Just parsing and printing)

        if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"iiz#",&can_han,&com,&dat,&len))
                return NULL;            //This command will translate
python data to C data
        printf("%i com->%i len->%i string->%s\n",can_han,com,len,dat);

Python (Just command to this function)
print write_can(can_han,0x0140,'abcd')

Output
135769704 com->0 len->4 string->t=??

Output expected values for length and the number, not for the string
nor com. Ideas?



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 16 15:31:25 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:31:25 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<Xns96F0C6A35F486castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <4352899f.160023952@news.oz.net>

On 16 Oct 2005 00:31:38 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 GMT, Roedy Green
>> <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote: 
>> 
>>>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted :
>>>
>>>>I think e-mail should be text only.
>> I think that is a useful base standard, which allows easy creation of
>> ad-hoc tools to search and extract data from your archives, etc. 
>>>
>>>I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
>>>HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.
>>>
>>>But HTML is not the problem!
>> Right, it's what the HTML-interpreting engines might do that is
>> the problem.
>
>You mean the same problem as for example using a very long header in 
>your email to cause a buffer overflow? That is possible with plain 
>ASCII, and has been done.
Are you trolling? No, I don't mean the same problem.
What an HTML interpreter does by _design_ is not in the same category
as an implementation error enabling a root exploit.

>
>>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>>>  
>>>HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
>>>colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.
>> All good stuff, but I don't like worrying about side effects when I
>> read email.
>
>Then you should ask people to print it out, and use snail mail. Exploits 
_I_ should, because _you_ can't think of a better solution?
Always happy to get useful advice, though ;-)

>in email programs are not happening since HTML was added to them.
>
You mean they didn't start happening, presumably. But I'm not talking about exploits,
I'm talking about what HTML is designed to do, which is to describe a presentation
composed of elements which in general requires retrieving many elements separately
as the indirect references (links) are interpreted and the data is requested from
the indicated servers -- all at HTML interpretation-time, whatever client engine is
doing that for browser or email reader etc.

Don't get me wrong, I said "all good stuff," as far as control of presentation
is concerned. And I would be happy to have nice graphic email if I could get it
as a self-contained file from my ISP's mail server, and I had a presentation
engine involved that I knew was guaranteed to stick to presentation work without
communicating over the web or doing anything else without my knowledge.

I don't see any technical obstacle to that, but HTML is not designed to be
the solution to that. IMO pdf comes close. I recognize that a pdf interpreter
can also have exploitable implementation errors, just like an ascii email client,
but that is not what I am talking about.

I prefilter email into plain and X/HTML-containing mailboxes, and I don't open
HTML email from unknown sources, though if I am really curious I will drag and
drop the email into a "probtrash" mailbox and use a python script that extracts the
text or other info as text in a console window. All the ones purportedly from ebay and amazon
and paypal have been phishing attempts which would look pretty convincing if displayed
by normal X/HTML interpretation. If my ISP had a better filter or I imporved mine,
I wouldn't see that, but in my normal ascii email boxes I don't have to worry about that,
I just have to resist the social engineering of the offers from Nigeria etc. ;-)

>>>I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
>>>only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.
>
>> How about pdf?
>
>Ah, and that's exploit free?
That's not the issue. All programs can have the kind of exploit possibilities
that you are talking about. A program with the single purpose of interpreting
a page description and presenting it graphically is easier to eliminate
exploitable vulnerabilities from than a program that involves a lot of additional
stuff.
>
>>>Program listings are much more readable on my website.
>> IMO FOSS pdf could provide all the layout benefits while
>> avoiding (allowing for bugs) all the downsides of X/HTML in emails.
>
>Amazing, so one data format that's open is better compared to another 
>open data format based on what?
I take it you don't understand the difference between pdf and html?

A primary thing is the monitorable data-moving activity that is involved.
A pdf can have links, but they are not followed (not counting what closed
source proprietary softare might risk a PR black eye doing) in the process
of opening and presenting the document to you.

The whole file comes as a single unit normally (though I could see the temptation
to implement automatic font downloads and enable font-bugs like web-bugs based on that,
though in a FOSS implementation, such [mal]features could easily be made optional).

You could say features can be optional re HTML CSS and JS and all the
other automatic web-accessing and other features of HTML, but by the time you
made them all optional and turned them off, you wouldn't see the HTML-author's
intended presentation. That is not the case with pdf. Also, a single pdf file would
be coming from one place. There is not an on-the-fly gathering of elements
that you have to use a special tool to determine for sure where all the
requests to get them went, or to prevent them from going, and having the activity
logged, not to mention what the interpretation of unknown elements might do.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 21 04:09:48 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:09:48 +0200
Subject: get a copy of a string leaving original intact
References: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F6A@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
Message-ID: <dja7oe$uid$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Bell, Kevin" wrote:

> I'm having trouble with something that seems like it should be simple.
>
> I need to copy a file, say "abc-1.tif" to another directory, but if it's
> in there already, I need to transfer it named "abc-2.tif" but I'm going
> about it all wrong.
>
> Here's what doesn't work: (I'll add the copy stuff from shutil after
> figuring out the basic string manipulation.)

define "doesn't work".

> import os
>
> source = r"C:\Source"
> target = r"P:\Target"
>
> files = os.listdir(source)
>
> for f in files:
>     if os.path.isfile(target + "\\" + f):      # if it already exists
>         print f + " exists"
>         s = f                                  # i'd like a copy to
> alter
>         s = s.replace("-1", "-2")
>         print "Altered it to be " + s
>         print source + "\\" + s, target + "\\" + s

did you mean

        print source + "\\" + f, target + "\\" + s

?

>     else:
>         print f + " IS NOT THERE YET"
>         print source + "\\" + f, target + "\\" + f  # use the original
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

btw, note that

        source + "\\" + f

is better written as

        os.path.join(source, f)

e.g.

    for f in os.listdir(source):
        sourcefile = os.path.join(source, f)
        targetfile = os.path.join(target, f)
        if os.path.isfile(targetfile):
            targetfile = os.path.join(target, f.replace("-1", "-2"))
        print "copy", sourcefile, "to", targetfile
        shutil.copy(sourcefile, targetfile)

</F>





From jhu at metrigenix.com  Fri Oct 21 11:53:42 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:53:42 -0400
Subject: findwindow by its class name
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACC6@torexch.metrigenix.com>

Hi,

For the simple code:

from wxPython.wx import *
 
class MyApp(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = wxFrame(NULL, -1, "Hello App")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true
 
app = MyApp(0)
app.MainLoop()

Is there any way to know this windows' class name? I need to find it by
win32gui.FindWindow(classname,None) and send msg from another
application, but not using its title "Hello App".
MyApp is not the classname, for it couldn't be found by
FindWindow("MyApp",None).

Thanks a lot in advance!

James



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 00:33:36 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 21:33:36 -0700
Subject: Python script produces "sem_trywait: Permission denied"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2228.1129663780.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2228.1129663780.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129696416.247815.60950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Mark E. Hamilton wrote:
> Sorry, I probably should have re-stated the problem:
>
> We're using Python 2.3.5 on AIX 5.2, and get the follow error messages
> from some of our code. I haven't yet tracked down exactly where it's
> coming from:
>
> sem_trywait: Permission denied
> sem_wait: Permission denied
> sem_post: Permission denied

I'm I would be very concerned about these.  Permission denied is
somewhat baffling to me.  man sem_wait on Linux doesn't show EPERM as a
possible error condition.

The code that likely generates these messages is in
Python/thread_pthread.h near line  319.

Do you have lots of threads?  Do you make heavy use of semaphores?
Maybe they are running out or something.  Do you know if your locking
is really working?

> We don't run these scripts as root, so I can't say whether they work as
> root. I suspect they would, though, since root has permissions to do
> anything.

I'm not sure.  I don't know what the Permission denied really means.

I wonder if there some weird compiler optimization thing going on.  Not
that I'm blaming the compiler, it could well be a python problem.  I
just don't know.

Do you have any memory debugging tools that you can run python under to
see if there's something weird python is doing?  Valgrind should work
on PPC now, but you may need to apply a patch, I'm not sure PPC support
is mainline in v3.  Other possibilities include purify if that works on
AIX or sentinel.

n



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 21 22:59:49 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:59:49 -0400
Subject: DBM scalability
References: <1129859697.05de93f92162ac35884e384d6b4d3df1@teranews>
	<7xu0faq19i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1129950012.b8dad41c3bb304bb64c2c0cf6850a60f@teranews>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> "George Sakkis" <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> writes:
> > I'm trying to create a dbm database with around 4.5 million entries
> > but the existing dbm modules (dbhash, gdbm) don't seem to cut
> > it. What happens is that the more entries are added, the more time
> > per new entry is required, so the complexity seems to be much worse
> > than linear. Is this to be expected
>
> No, not expected.  See if you're using something like db.keys() which
> tries to read all the keys from the db into memory, or anything like that.

It turns out it doesn't have to do with python or the dbm modules. The same program on a different
box and platform runs linearly, so I guess it has to do with the OS and/or the hard disk
configuration.

George




From david_blomstrom at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 08:59:20 2005
From: david_blomstrom at yahoo.com (David Blomstrom)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 05:59:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <20051028125920.45061.qmail@web60424.mail.yahoo.com>

"Everytime someone compares MS's behavior with some
less controversial criminal behavior, you act like
they
accused MS of holding people up at gunpoint."

Screwing literally millions of consumers and taxpayers
and holding entire schools hostage is far worse than
holding up an individual at gunpoint. The name
Microsoft is virtually synonymous with crime, even if
many people are too stupid to recognize it as crime -
or the courts are too corrupt or inefficient to
convict Bill Gates for many of his crimes.



		
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http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From quncao at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 19:29:31 2005
From: quncao at gmail.com (Qun Cao)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 16:29:31 -0700
Subject: wierd threading behavior
In-Reply-To: <1129332055.328658.209220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129332055.328658.209220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129332571.166816.209360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Sam,
That was a stupid typo ( yeah, I actually typed it in :), it should be
(test,()).
I am using python 2.4.1 in ubuntu.  I do aware that threading.Thread is
prefered,
but I did not realize thread is deprecated.  It is still a mysterious
behavior anyhow. :)



From python at gentoolinux.demon.nl  Thu Oct 20 04:58:44 2005
From: python at gentoolinux.demon.nl (the_crazy88)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 01:58:44 -0700
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Just use 
os.system("export PYTHONPATH = %s" %("your_pythonpath"))



From kylotan at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 11:33:52 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 08:33:52 -0700
Subject: Opaque documentation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2676.1130512412.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2676.1130512412.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130513632.359922.113550@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


egbert wrote:
> Once in a while you come acros aline of documentation
> that you have to, or that invites you to, read it again.
> This is what I found in PyGTK:
>
>     The set_screen method sets the 'screen" property to
>     the gtk.gdk.Screen specified by screen. The "screen" property
>     contains the screen that the window is displayed on.

Clearly this is a violation of "once and only once". I'd reword it as:

    The set_screen method sets the property to the gtk.gdk specified
    by. The property contains the that the window is displayed on.

;)  Maybe if I was being less facetious, someone could reword it as:

    The set_screen method sets the 'screen" property to
    the supplied gtk.gdk.Screen object. This property
    contains the screen that the window is displayed on.

Documentation is often a problem with Python and its libraries, sadly.
The same almost certainly goes for most open source projects.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 09:21:17 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:21:17 +0200
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com><1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com><1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org><1128428782.4070.42.camel@dot.uniqsys.com><43427640.3010707@holdenweb.com>
	<1128430810.4070.55.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
Message-ID: <dhtvkc$h6h$1@sea.gmane.org>

Carsten Haese wrote:

> I don't see how to make __import__ do that.

hint: you might get more people to look at your problems/proposals if you
actually trim the replies a little.  (is 295 angle brackets in a single message
perhaps some kind of c.l.py record?)

</F> 





From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Tue Oct 11 01:06:30 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:06:30 -0400
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1655.1128664871.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>
	<mailman.1860.1128980285.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128986126.7aab88bc9d9a2f56ea6d61ec086380ec@teranews>
Message-ID: <1129007196.abf72c3d848e153a96c042bdfc96fa56@teranews>

"Dave Hansen" <iddw at hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:42:34 -0500, Terry Hancock
> <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday 09 October 2005 07:50 am, phil hunt wrote:
> >> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> >> >GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
> >> >reading it as written pretty much makes sense).
> >>
> >> I know, let's re-write Python to make it more like COBOL! That's
> >> bound to be a winner!
> >
> >Whereas the "natural order" of "condition affirmative negative" is natural
> >for what reason?  That it is so in C?
>
> And Basic, and Fortran, and Lisp, and just about any programming
> language you care to name, including python (if Condition: Affirmative
> else: Negative).

Block delimiters (curly braces, if/fi, begin/end, etc.) are also in just about any language but this
didn't stop python using indentation instead, so what's your point ? Conformity and backwards
compatibility should not be top priorities in language design; fortunately for python, they're not.

George




From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 02:58:16 2005
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (B Mahoney)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 23:58:16 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<QaKdnTqC4v5kaNPeRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129273096.585435.247280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The paper on BitPim http://bitpim.sourceforge.net/papers/baypiggies/
lists and describes programs and ideas used for the project.  Some of
it is just bullet-points, but everything seems to be well chosen. I've
swiped a lot of these ideas.



From sjmaster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 19:10:59 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 16:10:59 -0700
Subject: Advice on this code
References: <1129152516.432512.80460@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129158659.523033.177900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

                    output.write(wrkmisc(ifile,2582))
                    output.write(wrkviol(ifile,2774,16))
                    output.write(wrkaccid(ifile,3270,16))
                    output.write(wrkmisc2(ifile,3638))
                    output.write(wrkcov(ifile,3666,6))
                    output.write(wrklp(ifile,4314,7))
                    output.write(wrkai(ifile,4909,6))
                    output.write(wrkmisc3(ifile,5707))


Ummm... yuck?
First of all, this program is very hard to understand to somebody who
hasn't written it. ALthough I've never heard of Quote Vista so maybe
that's the problem.

Anyway, if you want to integrate the first program with the second GUI
program, you should convert the first program into a set of functions
that can be called to do everything the first program does.

So basically, take the first program and put everything that's not
already in a function into one. That is, all the code that is at zero
indentation, starting with creating the oConn connection, should be
moved into functions. You can also write a big-mama function that calls
those functions in such a way that it would have the exact same overall
effect as the original script before you moved the code into functions.
You can call this big-mama function 'main'.

Now you can integrate it with the GUI program by importing the first
module from the GUI program and binding the functions to the
appropriate buttons. For example you could bind main to the Start
button you  described.

Also, in the first file, you can put the following lines at the bottom,
and it will allow you to run the original script directly to achieve
the same result, while still being able to import it into a second
program and re-use just the functions.

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct  3 11:46:49 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:46:49 +1000
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 06:59:04 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Well I'm a bit getting sick of those references to standard idioms.
> There are moments those standard idioms don't work, while the
> gist of the OP's remark still stands like:
> 
>   egold = 0:
>   while egold < 10:
>     if test():
>       ego1d = egold + 1

for item in [x for x in xrange(10) if test()]:

But it isn't about the idioms. It is about the trade-offs. Python allows
you to do things that you can't do in other languages because you
have much more flexibility than is possible with languages that
require you to declare variables before using them. The cost is, some
tiny subset of possible errors will not be caught by the compiler. But
since the compiler can't catch all errors anyway, you need to test for
errors and not rely on the compiler. No compiler will catch this error:

x = 12.0 # feet
# three pages of code
y = 15.0 # metres
# three more pages of code
distance = x + y
if distance < 27:
    fire_retro_rockets()

And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.


Declared variables have considerable labour costs, and only marginal
gains. Since the steps you take to protect against other errors will also
protect against mistyping variables, declarations of variables is of
little practical benefit.


-- 
Steven.



From programmer.py at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:11:58 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:11:58 -0600
Subject: learning emacs lisp
In-Reply-To: <dk3sev$ov8$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1130241817.688203.320540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<85br1dydvn.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>
	<1130246810.318934.123570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130267274.057695.116050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130698078.823822.223300@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dk3sev$ov8$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510310611v30ff6958r3bf4dc9273d1ba08@mail.gmail.com>

I really appreciate the fact that while Xah is an inflammatory nut, he
hasn't been `censored' by the folks that run the mailing list.  Free
speech is awesome, no?

jw

On 10/30/05, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> [To new readers:
>
> please ignore the rantings of this unbalanced person, who is well known
> for posing inappropriate and inflammatory material on news groups and
> mailing lists of all kinds.]
>
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > well, in the past couple of days i started my own:
> > http://xahlee.org/emacs/notes.html
> >
> > but i'm sure something like it exists.
> >
> > Btw, the elisp intro by
> > Robert J Chassell. At:
> > http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/
> > is extremely well written.
> > (and so is the elisp reference)
> >
> > Bravo to GNU & Freesoftware Foundation once again. Thank you.
> >
> > PS Fuck unix and unix fuckheads. Fuck asshole Larry Wall. Fuck Python
> > documenation community and their fucking ass lying thru their teeth
> > ignorance fucking shit. (See:
> >  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/gubni_papri.html)
> >
> > Disclaimer: all mention of real person are opinion only.
> >
> >  Xah
> >  xah at xahlee.org
> > ? http://xahlee.org/
> >
> > rgb wrote:
> >
> >>>i'm looking for something example based... for senior professional
> >>>programers who may want to pickup some elisp for practical macro.
> >>
> >>Unfortunately the path from any given language to Elisp varies vastly.
> >>For example a Prolog programmer would need far fewer tips than a Cobol
> >>or even a C programmer.  It's unlikely you will find something
> >>tailored to your specific experience.
> >>
> >>I'd already written programs in well over 100 languages in the 20
> >>years before learning Elisp yet I didn't find the intro terribly
> >>tedious until around section 13 (Counting).  At that point it switches
> >>focus toward examples of creating functions rather than introducing
> >>syntax and available features.  Perhaps starting at section 12 would
> >>suit your learning style better.
> >>
> >>As you probably realize, the language itself is just syntax and the
> >>hard part is learning about all the facilities at your disposal once
> >>you decide to write something.  There are a lot of features available
> >>and, although daunting, I think the reference is the best resource
> >>for discovering them.
> >>
> >>This group has also been indispensable to me.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


--
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them."
Ronald Reagan

From anil.pundoor at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 01:53:25 2005
From: anil.pundoor at gmail.com (anil.pundoor at gmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 22:53:25 -0700
Subject: Bwidget for tkinter
Message-ID: <1128318804.997697.127310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi can i use the bwidgets in tkinter? if so from where can i download
the bwidget for tk inter. and i want to know the installation procedure



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  3 15:05:10 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:05:10 GMT
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ghf0f.11476$X31.619550@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Peter Decker wrote:
> On 10/3/05, Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> 
>>The default of this list is not to make conversations private; in fact
>>the list doesn't have any default. It's you who chooses to send replies
>>to the original author, to the list, or both, by choosing which button
>>to press in your mail client.
> 
> 
> Interesting: which button do I press to reply only to the list? I'm
> using Gmail, and it only has 'Reply' and 'Reply to all' as options.
> One sends a private reply; the other sends 2 replies. I checked all my
> other mail clients, and they work the same way.

As I said, all mail clients I know lack that feature. Sad state of
affairs, but it still doesn't mean that mailing lists should munge
headers in order to circumvent shortcomings in mail clients.

> Setting the default Reply-To: to the list means that 'Reply' sends
> just to the list (the desired behavior most of the time), and 'Reply
> to all' sends 2 copies.

The thing is: Reply-to has legitimate uses. I don't really understand
the use cases (AFAICS all of them could be done with Form: instead), but
the fact is that the standard explicitly states a number of use cases
for it. Once you start munging the header, those use cases done't work
anymore; the very thing Reply-to was designed to solve, stops working.

It's always best that simple things are easy, and difficult things are
possible. But that's not always possible, and when one has to choose
between (a) easy things are easy but complex things are impossible and
(b) easy things are less easy but complex things are possible, one
should choose (b).

> I'm on several other lists, some of which default replies to the list,
> and others which default to the sender. I've *never* seen threads like
> this on the former, while such threads appear like clockwork on the
> latter. Draw your own conclusion.

I don't see that kind of threads appear all that often. Almost never in
fact.

>>Not that it matters that much to me, since I read practically all
>>mailing lists via gmane.org. That turns the lists into newsgroups, where
>>the reply button (follow-up, more accurately) does send the reply to the
>>newsgroup.
> 
> 
> So the answer is to not use the email interface, since the newsgroup
> interface actually gets it right!  :)

Well yes. Mailing lists and usenet newsgroups are two different media
for about the same kind of communication, and IMO the interface offered
by usenet is more suited to that kind of communication.

Regars,
Roel

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From lycka at carmen.se  Thu Oct  6 10:56:38 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:56:38 +0200
Subject: Convert hex to string
In-Reply-To: <1128370840.468590.27030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128370840.468590.27030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di3dv6$vv1$1@wake.carmen.se>

Java and Swing wrote:
> I have some output stored in a string that looks like..
> 
> 
>>>x
> 
> '\x01\xee\x1eo\xc3+\x8b\x83\xfad\xf6E\xaa\x0ea/I\x96\x83\xf5G\xa3\rQ\xfcH\xee\r'
> 
> 
> According to, http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html, this is
> "Unsigned Hexidecimal (lowercase)".  How can I get this into normal
> Ascii so that I can read it?

What did you expect this string to print? Where did it come from?
Viewed as ASCII it's mainly non-printables, with o, +, d, E, a/I,
G, Q and H stuffed in, but I'm pretty sure it isn't 8 bit text
in any normal encoding. The only reason to suspect that this might
be text after all, is that it ends with a carriage return.

Converting your string to numbers, we get...
1 238 30 111(o) 195 43(+) 139 131 250 100(d) 246 69(E) 170 14 97(a)
47(/) 73(I) 150 131 245 71(G) 163 13 81 (Q) 252 72(H) 238 13.

You can find the definition of ASCII via Google.


From skromta at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 16:23:01 2005
From: skromta at gmail.com (Kalle Anke)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 22:23:01 +0200
Subject: Java pretty formatter
Message-ID: <0001HW.BF6A02C500B177C5F0284550@news.individual.de>

Does a Java "pretty formatter" exist? 

I would like to use a Python based web building tool but would like to pretty 
format Java code (for example adding color to keywords, etc).

I haven't managed to find one but have probably been looking in the wrong 
places.



From xinchenvn at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 01:58:18 2005
From: xinchenvn at gmail.com (xinchenvn at gmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 22:58:18 -0700
Subject: Can Python replace TCL/Expect
Message-ID: <1128578298.778640.313900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi

I'm learning Python. I don't know whether Python can do something like
Expect can do. If yes, please show me how to do it.
I want to do something automatically: open connection to a ftp server,
get the welcome message on the screen (not in the packet). I can do it
easily with Expect but I still don't have any idea with Python.
If possible, can you introduce me some book or website that I can get
infor about automation programming with Python

Thanks



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Oct 30 13:41:44 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:41:44 +0100
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de> <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com> <m2hdb0rxv2.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m7na4je921j89@corp.supernews.com> <m2u0ezqe0w.fsf@ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <m2oe56rgnr.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> (PvO) wrote:

>PvO> He didn't state that he has no control over that program. I.e. if it is a
>PvO> program that he has source code of, he could change its behaviour to use a
>PvO> named pipe.

He could do the initial run of the program with stdin and stdout redirected
to named pipes.At least on Unix that works, I don't know about Windows (but
why not). Later you can write input to the stdin pipe and read the output
back from the other one.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 13:33:52 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:33:52 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one
	oninstantiation
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow><mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128532725.4560.25.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <di12pr$u0p$1@sea.gmane.org>

"marduk" wrote:

> Do I have to implement my own garbage collecting is or there some "magical"
> way of doing this within Python?

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-weakref.html

</F> 





From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sat Oct  8 21:17:15 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 18:17:15 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<8ohgk1p9s6pgaq8d67bgpjg7i8i22ngiul@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1128820635.056326.87380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Roedy Green wrote:
> Just how long do you want to stall evolution?  Do you imagine people
> 200 years from now will be still be using pure ASCII text unable to
> find a solution to JavaScript viruses (turn off JS), pop-up( disable
> popups) etc.?

People in their sky-cars turning off JavaScript in their browsers: what
a thought!

But to suggest a seemingly endless list of "user customisations" to
prevent heightened exposure to irritating advertisers, phishing
attempts, malware and so on is to miss the point, just as Bill Gates
smugly does so (and I say this at the risk of sounding like a certain
other "contributor" to this newsgroup) by saying that computer software
isn't good enough and could be better/more secure/more stable, despite
running a software monopoly for the past decade or so and having an
unparalleled opportunity to do something about the situation instead of
just "milking it".

Every so often, discussions like these remind me of some ancient work I
once did on the topic of avoiding some of the issues raised by mobile
code and mobile content. Despite the likes of Mr Gates who will
probably try and persuade you that we're on the cutting edge
(presumably before demanding a premium to "sort it all out"), many of
the issues have been known about for a good while. Of course, that
doesn't mean that the software industry is in any hurry to do anything
about it.

Paul



From mvanaswegen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 04:53:07 2005
From: mvanaswegen at gmail.com (vpr)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 01:53:07 -0700
Subject: wxPython question
In-Reply-To: <434e5dac$0$25428$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <1129207833.953525.266880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<434e5dac$0$25428$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1129625587.831829.277820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've had some problems, it seems that they dont render well in Linux. I
tried it with Ubuntu Breezy.



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 10:32:27 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:32:27 -0000
Subject: ssh or other python editor
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11k54jr92duilbb@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, martijn at gamecreators.nl <martijn at gamecreators.nl> wrote:

> I'm working/making my python scripts in a windows OS with putty now.
> But I really want the python text colors and tab spacing like the
> python windows IDE but the problem is that I can't find a good program.

Jed, Emacs, and Vim all have Python modes.   I'm sure most
decent programming editors do by now.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! Now we can
                                  at               become alcoholics!
                               visi.com            


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 23:30:58 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:30:58 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F0B50692ED3castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<ogv4l1548efn15vuts8iiflushk34bmonh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1E50AE8B1Fcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 15 Oct 2005 22:47:45 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>Opera seems to be making money with it. Also, Firefox gets money from 
>>Google kickback. Maybe MS had a similar idea in mind, but it failed 
>>(remember how they wanted to add ads to keywords in webpages?)
> 
> There also had that Passport thing. They probably figured they would
> take over Internet commerce and get rich off the user fees.

It seems that Google is making a wallet, so I wouldn't amaze if MS comes 
with something similar if they see it works. Or buy PayPal (if such a thing 
is possible).

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 11:49:32 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:49:32 +0100
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
In-Reply-To: <A7F25BFC-3F21-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>
References: <divpf3$30m$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<A7F25BFC-3F21-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <dj0h6c$khr$1@sea.gmane.org>

David Pratt wrote:
[about ord(), chr() and stripping control characters]
> Many thanks Steve. This is good information. I think this should work 
> fine. I was doing a string.replace in a cleanData() method with the 
> following characters but don't know if that would have done it. This 
> contains all the control characters that I really know about in normal 
> use. ord(c) < 32 sounds like a much better way to go and comprehensive. 
>   So I guess instead of string.replace, I should do a    ...  for char 
> in ...    and check evaluate each character, correct? - or is there a 
> better way of eliminating these other that reading a string in 
> character by character.
> 
> '\a','\b','\e','\f','\n','\r','\t','\v','|'
> 

There are a number of different things you might want to try. One is 
translate() which, given a string and a translate table, will perform 
the translation all in one go. For example:

  >>> delchars = "".join(chr(i) for i in range(32)) + "|"
  >>> print repr(delchars)
'\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\x0f\x10\x11\x12\x13\x14\
x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f|'
  >>> nultxfrm = "".join(chr(i) for i in range(256))
  >>>

So delchars is a list of characters you want to remove, and nultxfrm is 
a 256-character string where the nultxfrm[n] == chr(n) - this performs 
no translation at all. So then

     s = s.translate(nultxfrm, delchars)

will remove all the "illegal" characters from s.

Note that I am sort-of cheating here, as this is only going to work for 
8-bit characters. Once Unicode enters the picture all bets are off.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct  8 12:01:42 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:01:42 -0500
Subject: List performance and CSV
In-Reply-To: <1128784783.256285.24680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128784783.256285.24680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051008160141.GC19288@unpythonic.net>

You'll probably see a slight speed increase with something like
    for a in CustomersToMatch:
        for b in Customers:
            if a[2] == b[2]:
                a[1] = b[1]
                break
But a really fast approach is to use a dictionary or other structure
that turns the inner loop into a fast lookup, not a slow loop through
the 'Customers' list.  Preparing the dictionary would look like
    custmap = {}
    for c in Customers:
        k = c[2]
        if k in custmap: continue
        custmap[k] = c
and the loop to update would look like
    for a in customerstomatch:
        try:
            a[1] = custmap[a[2]][1]
        except KeyError:
            continue

(all code is untested)

In "big-O" terms, I believe this changes the complexity from O(m*n) to O(m+n).

Jeff
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From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 06:16:16 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 03:16:16 -0700
Subject: Question on class member in python
In-Reply-To: <1h4mjkh.163t6yf4f20krN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1129624952.836150.159520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4mjkh.163t6yf4f20krN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1129630576.414181.276570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Alex Martelli ???

> Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > But I still wonder what's the difference between the A().getMember and
> > A().member besides the style
>
> Without parentheses after it, getMember is a method.  The difference
> between a method object and an integer object (which is what member
> itself is in your example) are many indeed, so your question is very
> strange.  You cannot call an integer, you cannot divide methods, etc.
>
>
> Alex

Sorry, I didn't express myself clear to you. I mean:
b = A().getMember()
c = A().member
what's the difference between b and c? If they are the same, what's the
difference in the two way to get the value besides the style.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Oct  6 18:06:49 2005
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy (Tim))
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:06:49 +1000
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
Message-ID: <2773CAC687FD5F4689F526998C7E4E5F4DB6AA@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> I need to merge several sources of values into one stream of values.
> All of the sources are sorted already and I need to retrieve the
> values from them all in sorted order.
> 
> In other words:
> s1 = [10, 20, 30, 40, 50]
> s2 = [15, 25]
> s3 = [17, 27, 37]
> 
> for value in ???(s1, s2, s3):
>      print value
> 
> will print out 10, 15, 17, 20, 25, 27, 30, 37, 40, 50 in that order.
> 
> The sources are cursors retrieving data from several databases, not
> from the same server, and there's a potential for a large number of
> rows from several of the sources. As such, any method that would load
> it all into memory and sort it is no good as it would too much memory.

I would suggest retrieving the first element from each data source. Then for the smallest element, keep retrieving from that data source until it is no longer the smallest element, at which time you switch to the data source with the smallest element.

Tim Delaney


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 13:30:43 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:30:43 +0200
Subject: form filling XML
References: <1129223327.031069.163820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dim5k5$49s$1@sea.gmane.org>

"George" <buffer_88 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> How can I compare the text in the element tags <li> with the elements
> tags in filling and if they match replace the text within the elements
> tags <li> with the text in the matching element tag of fillin.
> For example Since the text Monday in form matches the Element tag
> <Monday> in fillin put maandag in the element tag <li> of Monday.

here's one way to do it:

    import elementtree.ElementTree as ET
    # or: import cElementTree as ET
    # or: import lxml.etree import ET

    form="""..."""

    fillin="""..."""

    form_elem = ET.XML(form)
    fill_elem = ET.XML(fillin)

    for elem in form_elem.findall(".//li"):
        text = fill_elem.findtext(elem.text)
        if text:
            elem.text = text

    print ET.tostring(form_elem)

using your example, this prints:

    <html>
    <head> <title> My Sample Web Page </title> </head>
    <body bgcolor="white">
    <p>
    What are the weekdays?
    <ol>
    <li>maandag</li>
    <li>dinsdag</li>
    <li>woensdag</li>
    <li>donderdag</li>
    <li>vrijdag</li>
    </ol>
    </p>
    </body>
    </html>

links:

    http://effbot.org/zone/element-index.htm
    http://effbot.org/zone/celementtree.htm
    http://codespeak.net/lxml/

(if you're on linux, check your local package source for elementtree
packages)

</F>





From programmer.py at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 17:28:49 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:28:49 -0500
Subject: Zope3 Examples?
In-Reply-To: <mck%e.8635$cq2.1070038@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <jMJ_e.2095$l03.442812@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<s32%e.7717$cq2.937282@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Yya%e.7868$cq2.984401@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.1266.1128087358.509.python-list@python.org>
	<mck%e.8635$cq2.1070038@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510011428xf6bd647yfc86442331e754c2@mail.gmail.com>

If you're experimenting with frameworks, try out django.  I've only
completed a few parts of the tutorial.  However, what amazes me is how
much I got for so little code.  It's slick.

http://www.djangoproject.com/

jw

On 9/30/05, Markus Wankus <markus_REMOVEwankusALL_CAPS at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > Markus Wankus wrote:
> >> [...] Thanks for the reply - maybe I'll give it another shot.  I'm
> >> currently demoing Snakelets.  Quite a turn in the opposite direction,
> >> but small and super-easy to get going with. [...]
> >
> > I also found Snakelets a pleasure to use and chose it for implementing a
> > clan homepage in early 2005.
> >
> > I'm still very interested in the Python/Web/RDBMS field and tried to
> > follow the developments since then. I didn't actually build anything
> > real, only played a little bit with CherryPy and the megaframeworks
> > built upon, Subway and TurboGears.
> >
> > If I had to choose again, I'd use TurboGears, despite the fact that it's
> > very young and still developing.
> >
> > -- Gerhard
> >
>
> Good to know.  I have watched the screencast for Turbogears but haven't
> tried it yet.  There seemed to be a lot of "magic" methods going on
> there, and you could tell the guy doing the screencast had done that
> more than once. ;o)  I guess once you run through the manual it would
> all make sense.
>
> I figure I'll give Snakelets a good go first.  Is your Snakelets-based
> page up and accessible somewhere?
>
> Markus.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr  Sat Oct 22 05:33:51 2005
From: sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?iso-8859-1?Q?Th=E9nault?=)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:33:51 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PyLint 0.8
Message-ID: <20051022093351.GB2771@logilab.fr>

Hi there !

I'm very please to announce the new 0.8 release of PyLint. I've promised
this release for a long time now, and finally got the time to do it :D.
This release includes a lot of bug fixes and enhancements. Notice that
a major change in this release is a new dependancy to the astng package
which has been extracted from logilab-common. This package is 
downloadable from http://www.logilab.org/projects/astng.

What's new ?
------------
    * check names imported from a module exists in the module (E0611),
      patch contributed by Amaury Forgeot d'Arc

    * print a warning (W0212) for methods that could be a function
      (implements #9100)

    * new --defining-attr-methods option on classes checker

    * new --acquired-members option on the classes checker, used when
      --zope=yes to avoid false positive on acquired attributes (listed
      using this new option) (close #8616)

    * generate one E0602 for each use of an undefined variable
      (previously, only one for the first use but not for the following)
      (implements #1000)
	
    * make profile option saveable

    * fix Windows .bat file,  patch contributed by Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
	
    * fix one more false positive for E0601 (access before definition)
      with for loop such as "for i in range(10): print i" (test 
      func_noerror_defined_and_used_on_same_line)

    * fix false positive for E0201 (undefined member) when accessing to
      __name__ on a class object
      
    * fix astng checkers traversal order
    
    * fix bug in format checker when parsing a file from a platform
      using different new line characters (close #9239)
	
    * fix encoding detection regexp

    * fix --rcfile handling (support for --rcfile=file, close #9590)


What is pylint ?
----------------

Pylint is a python tool that checks if a module satisfy a coding
standard. Pylint can be seen as another pychecker since nearly all
tests you can do with pychecker can also be done with Pylint. But
Pylint offers some more features, like checking line-code's length,
checking if variable names are well-formed according to your coding
standard, or checking if declared interfaces are truly implemented,
and much more (see http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint/ for the
complete check list). The big advantage with Pylint is that it is
highly configurable, customizable, and you can easily write a small
plugin to add a personal feature.

The usage it quite simple :

$ pylint mypackage.mymodule
        

This command will output all the errors and warnings related to the
tested code (here : mypackage.mymodule), will dump a little summary at
the end, and will give a mark to the tested code.

Pylint is free software distributed under the GNU Public Licence.


Home page
---------
http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint

Download
--------
ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/pylint

Mailing list
------------
mailto://python-projects at logilab.org


Enjoy !
-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org



From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Oct  9 16:10:28 2005
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:10:28 -0000
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128888628.643764@yasure>

Quoth "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>:
| Alex Stapleton wrote
|
| > Except it is interpreted.
|
| except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte code, which
| is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a module is up
| to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.

Fair to say that byte code is interpreted?  Seems to require an
application we commonly call an interpreter.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 10:28:39 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:28:39 -0700
Subject: question about output
In-Reply-To: <1128522271.424943.204030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128522271.424943.204030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128522519.839939.311030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

doh!  nevermind, my original output had e and d in it.



From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 09:36:35 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 06:36:35 -0700
Subject: Extention Woes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2297.1129793455.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129782119.830390.235540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2297.1129793455.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129815395.550437.294470@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Never mind, problem solved. The other problem I was having was I forgot
to put the .so at the end of a file, so it didn't change anything.
Thanks for all of the help!



From ray223 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 00:02:10 2005
From: ray223 at gmail.com (ray223 at gmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 21:02:10 -0700
Subject: setuptools, ez_setup over http proxy
In-Reply-To: <1129252549.899651.327160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129252549.899651.327160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129262530.512786.169430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


yoda wrote:
> I've recently configured my network such that I use squid as a http
> proxy.  I'd now like to be able to use setuptools and ez_setup via this
> proxy.  Is this possible? If so, how do I do it?
>
> The most that the setuptools documentation says is
> (http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools):
>
> "....If you are behind an NTLM-based firewall that prevents Python
> programs from accessing the net directly, you may wish to first install
> and use the APS proxy server, which lets you get past such firewalls in
> the same way that your web browser(s) do....."
>
> ps. I'm not sure that this is the right forum for this question.  If it
> isn't feel free to point me to the right place.

Hi,

This is really an urllib2 question ...

setup an environment variable "HTTP_PROXY" that points to your proxy
server, of the form:

user:password at server:port

urllib2 doco will probably have more details

Ray Smith



From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 14:54:01 2005
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 11:54:01 -0700
Subject: reload fails if module not in sys.path
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2337.1129876356.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129849234.985211.141940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2337.1129876356.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129920841.086310.87020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

It's not just load_module.  Reload fails on modules imported normally
if their paths are no longer in sys.path.

Easy to reproduce example:

bash$ mkdir module_dir
bash$ touch module_dir/plugin.py
bash$ python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, Sep 25 2005, 15:12:45)
[GCC 3.4.3 20041125 (Gentoo 3.4.3-r1, ssp-3.4.3-0, pie-8.7.7)] on
linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.path.append('module_dir')
>>> import plugin
>>> sys.path.pop()
'module_dir'
>>> reload(plugin)    # plugin was imported correctly, but it can't be reloaded:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named plugin
>>>
>>> sys.modules['plugin']       # ... although it is sys.modules:
<module 'plugin' from 'module_dir/plugin.py'>



From a.h.jaffe at bakerjaffe.plus.com  Fri Oct 21 06:49:10 2005
From: a.h.jaffe at bakerjaffe.plus.com (Andrew Jaffe)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:49:10 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <dja4ss$m2i$2@sea.gmane.org>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>	<43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<dja4ss$m2i$2@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4358C7A6.1040907@bakerjaffe.plus.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Andrew Jaffe wrote:
> 
>>The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the 
>>class itself, before I've made any instances.
>>
> Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...

Steve,

Yep, that would work! Thanks.

But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be almost 
exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to apply 
these methods to the class as an object in its own right).

A



From randy at psg.com  Tue Oct 18 18:36:34 2005
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:36:34 -1000
Subject: how best to split into singleton and sequence
Message-ID: <17237.30962.904656.295743@roam.psg.com>

>>> l = []
>>> s = 'a|b'
>>> t, l = s.split('|')
>>> t
'a'
>>> l
'b'
>>> s = 'a|b|c|d'
>>> t, l = s.split('|')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: too many values to unpack
>>> 

so, i imagine what is happening is the lhs, t,l, is really
(t, (l)), i.e. only two items.

so how should i have done this readably and simply?

randy



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 27 16:44:35 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:44:35 +0100
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
In-Reply-To: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djre7h$t1a$1@sea.gmane.org>

dcrespo wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> How can I replace all None values with the string 'Null' in a
> dictionary?
> 
> For example:
> convert this:
> a = {'item1': 45, 'item2': None}
> 
> into this:
> a = {'item1': 45, 'item2': 'Null'}
> 
for k in a:
   if a[k] is None:
     a[k] = 'Null'

You aren't doing this to create SQL statements, are you? If so, 
parameterized queries are the way to go ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 10 22:18:42 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:18:42 -0400
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

dcrespo wrote:
> Two copies of the password: one on the client, the other on the server.
[snip]
> I think it is a very good solution, Isn't it?

Ignoring all the other issues, any solution which actually requires the 
password to be stored on the server is a bad solution.  Administrators 
should not have access to user passwords, and in addition users should 
not be put in the position of having to trust your server-side security 
to keep their passwords (which they might have used on other systems) 
from being grabbed by hackers.

-Peter


From percivall at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 06:55:26 2005
From: percivall at gmail.com (Simon Percivall)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 03:55:26 -0700
Subject: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128509726.782209.300410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Python.org General FAQ 1.4.21: Why are default values shared between
objects?
(http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-default-values-shared-between-objects)



From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 01:18:40 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 22:18:40 -0700
Subject: testing '192.168.1.4' is in '192.168.1.0/24' ?
Message-ID: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Is there standard library modules handling this ? currently I need to
turn it into a long integer and do the shift and compare.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 10:40:33 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:40:33 +0200
Subject: Execute C code through Python
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.2371.1129908591.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130163021.526680.22590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djirp3$trt$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ernesto wrote:

>> > Thanks.  Can anyone provide an example of using *subprocess* to run
>> > helloWorld.C through the python interpreter.
>>
>> compile helloWorld, and run:
>>
>>     import subprocess
>>     subprocess.call("helloWorld")
>>
>> (any special reason why you couldn't figure this out yourself, given the
>> example provided by gsteff ?)
>
> There is a reason (though it is not special).  I'm new to Python.  I
> looked at all the documentation on subprocess, as well as popen.  I
> couldn't figure it out, so I thought an example (which I thank you for
> providing) would help me along (which it did).

as I noted in the part of my reply that you didn't read, the person you replied to
(gsteff) also provided an example.  Since his post didn't contain any other text, I
did find it a bit strange that you missed that part of his message, but still managed
to reply to it.

</F> 





From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Oct 21 14:08:44 2005
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:08:44 -0400
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41d9b$43592eac$d8fea164$1107@PRIMUS.CA>

nephish at xit.net wrote:
> the time is DateTime.DateTime object from a mySQLdb query.
> the value is a number anywhere between 0 and 15.
> the datetime is formatted like 2005-10-20 08:40:34
> 
> i could strip it and make a timestamp out of it. but reading the
> number of seconds since january of 1970 doesn't make a neat chart.
> 
> any suggestions?

Python is capable of integer arithmetic, eg.
    >>> 2000 - 500
    1500

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>, Toronto, Canada
ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive
	   http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html
BashDiff: Super Bash shell
	  http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 23 08:39:06 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:39:06 -0400
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com wrote:
> i get the following error message when i use py2exe on my application:
> 
> The following modules appear to be missing
> ['_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName']
> 
> I've installed PyXML-0.8.4.win32-py2.4.exe. My version of python is 2.4
> I've checked in the pyxml directories and these modules are not there.
> 
> Anybody have an idea what I'm doing wrong?

Maybe nothing.  Often py2exe will complain about modules which are not 
actually required by the application.

If your code runs and you've tested all areas of it, then you can chalk 
the above up to a "py2exe feature".

-Peter


From free.condiments at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 08:12:11 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 05:12:11 -0800
Subject: mixin helper class for unknown attribute access?
In-Reply-To: <ono9f.25939$m%6.21522@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <Mvm9f.25313$m%6.18781@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.31.12.40.23.812468@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ono9f.25939$m%6.21522@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1130764331.541218.285450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

One alrady exists, __slots__.

>>> class Foo(object):
	__slots__ = ['bar', 'baz', 'qig']


>>> f = Foo()
>>> f.foo = 'bar'

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    f.foo = 'bar'
AttributeError: 'Foo' object has no attribute 'foo'
>>> f.bar = 'foo'

However, __slots__ only works for class instances, so if you're messing
around with uninitialised classes (not a good idea outside the
singleton pattern or very functional-style code) it won't work.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 17 22:36:42 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:36:42 GMT
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>
	<4352289a$0$15038$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4353085a.192466642@news.oz.net>
	<435434f1$0$5767$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <43545340.277176128@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:34:09 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> Well, what will be assumed about name after the lines
>> 
>> #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
>> name = 'Martin L?wis' 
>> 
>> ?
>
>Are you asking what is assumed about the identifier 'name', or the value
>bound to that identifier? Currently, the identifier must be encoded in 
>latin1 in this source code, and it must only consist of letters, digits,
>and the underscore.
>
>The value of name will be a string consisting of the bytes
>4d 61 72 74 69 6e 20 4c f6 77 69 73

Which is the latin-1 encoding. Ok, so far so good. We know it's latin1, but the knowledge
is lost to python.

>
>> I know type(name) will be <type 'str'> and in itself contain no encoding information now,
>> but why shouldn't the default assumption for literal-generated strings be what the coding
>> cookie specified?
>
>That certainly is the assumption: string literals must be in the
>encoding specified in the source encoding, in the source code file
>on disk. If they aren't (and cannot be interpreted that way), you
>get a syntax error.
I meant the "literal-generated string" (internal str instance representation compiled
from the latin1-encoded source string literal.
>
>> I know the current implementation doesn't keep track of the different
>> encodings that could reasonably be inferred from the source of the strings, 
> > but we are talking about future stuff here ;-)
>
>Ah, so you want the source encoding to be preserved, say as an attribute
>of the string literal. This has been discussed many times, and was
>always rejected.
Not of the string literal per se. That is only one (constant) expression resulting
in a str instance. I want (for the sake of this discussion ;-) the str instance
to have an encoding attribute when it can reliably be inferred, as e.g. when a coding
cookie is specified and the str instance comes from a constant literal string expression.
>

>Some people reject it because it is overkill: if you want reliable,
>stable representation of characters, you should use Unicode strings.
>
>Others reject it because of semantic difficulties: how would such
>strings behave under concatenation, if the encodings are different?
I mentioned that in parts you snipped (2nd half here):
"""
Now when you read a file in binary without specifying any encoding assumption, you
would get a str string with .encoding==None, but you could effectively reinterpret-cast it
to any encoding you like by assigning the encoding attribute. The attribute
could be a property that causes decode/encode automatically to create data in the
new encoding. The None encoding would coming or going would not change the data bytes, but
differing explicit encodings would cause decode/encode.

This could also support s1+s2 to mean generate a concatenated string
that has the same encoding attribute if s1.encoding==s2.encoding and otherwise promotes
each to the platform standard unicode encoding and concatenates those if they
are different (and records the unicode encoding chosen in the result's encoding
attribute).
"""
>
>> #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
>> name = 'Martin L?wis' 
>> 
>> could be that name.encoding == 'latin-1'
>
>That is not at all intuitive. I would have expected name.encoding
>to be 'latin1'.
That's pretty dead-pan. Not even a smiley ;-)

>
>> Functions that generate strings, such as chr(), could be assumed to create
>> a string with the same encoding as the source code for the chr(...) invocation.
>
>What is the source of the chr invocation? If I do chr(param), should I 
The source file that the "chr(param)" appears in.
>use the source where param was computed, or the source where the call
No, the param is numeric, and has no reasonably inferrable encoding. (I don't
propose to have ord pass it on for integers to carry ;-) (so ord in another
module with different source encoding could be the source and an encoding
conversion could happen with integer as intermediary. But that's expected ;-)

>to chr occurs? If the latter, how should the interpreter preserve the
>encoding of where the call came from?
not this latter, so not applicable.
>
>What about the many other sources of byte strings (like strings read 
>from a file, or received via a socket)?
I mentioned that in parts you snipped. See above.

>
>> This is not a fully developed idea, and there has been discussion on the topic before
>> (even between us ;-) but I thought another round might bring out your current thinking
>> on it ;-)
>
>My thinking still is the same. It cannot really work, and it wouldn't do 
>any good with what little it could do. Just use Unicode strings.
>
To hear "It cannot really work" causes me agitation, even if I know it's not worth
the effort to pursue it ;-)

Anyway, ok, I'll leave it at that, but I'm not altogether happy with having to write

    #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
    name = 'Martin L?wis' 
    print name.decode('latin1')

where I think

    #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
    name = 'Martin L?wis' 
    print name

should reasonably produce the same output. Though I grant you

    #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
    name = u'Martin L?wis' 
    print name

is not that hard to do. (Please excuse the use of your name, which has a handy non-ascii letter ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 18:14:05 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 15:14:05 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.10.21.40.24.190776@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.21.40.24.190776@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1128982445.379456.207520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Sounds like it, but how is it different from what I just described?  :)

That's right, but I wanted to rewrite it... I was for confirm my recent
acquired knowlegde :)

With "alphanumeric" I meant the md5 hash (for example).



From peter at commonlawgov.org  Mon Oct 10 03:29:47 2005
From: peter at commonlawgov.org (Peter)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:29:47 -0700
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
In-Reply-To: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434A186B.6060301@commonlawgov.org>

I always pronounced it double-you-ex-python. I am almost positive this 
is the way it is pronounced.

Although the wxPyWiki seems to be pronounced wix-pee-wi-kee (as it says 
on the front page) so maybe it is pronounced wix-Python... you never know...

HTH,
Peter

Alex wrote:

>My native language is not English so I just wonder how you pronounce
>wxPython.
>
>vi-ex python
>double-you-ex python
>wax-python
>
>or something else
>
>Thanks
>
>  
>



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 15:42:40 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:42:40 -0000
Subject: Call C functions from Python
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11k5mpg999eos1f@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Java and Swing <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there some other way, besides SWIG, which will allow me to call
> functions inside an Ansi C DLL?

ctypes

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now KEN and BARBIE
                                  at               are PERMANENTLY ADDICTED to
                               visi.com            MIND-ALTERING DRUGS...


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  6 04:10:01 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 08:10:01 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at nospam.web.de>:
>> This is naive. Testing doesn't guarantee anything. If this is what you
>> think about testing, then testing gives you a false impression of
>> security. Maybe we should drop testing.
>
> Typechecking is done by a reduced lamda calculus (System F, which is 
> ML-Style), whereas testing has the full power of a turing complete 
> language. So _if_ one has to be dropped, it would certainly be 
> typechecking.

Sure, But allow me this silly analogy.

Going out on a full test-drive will also reveal your tires are flat.
So if you one has to be dropped, a full test drive or a tire check
it would certainly be the tired check. But IMO the tire check
is still usefull.

> Additionally, testing gives you the added benefit of actually using your 
> decelared APIs - which serves documentation  purposes as well as 
> securing your design decisions, as you might discover bad design while 
> actually writing testcases.

Hey, I'm all for testing. I never suggested testing should be dropped
for declarations

> Besides that, the false warm feeling of security a successful 
> compilation run has given many developers made them check untested and 
> actually broken code into the VCS. I've seen that _very_ often! And the 
> _only_ thinng that prevents us from doing so is to enforce tests.

I wonder how experienced are these programmers? I know I had this
feeling when I started at the univeristy, but before I left I
already wrote my programs in rather small pieces that were tested
before moving on.

> But 
> these are more naturally done in python (or similar languages) as every 
> programmer knows "unless the program run sucsessfully, I can't say 
> anything about it" than in a statically typed language where the 
> programmer argues "hey, it compiled, it should work!"

Again I do have to wonder about how experienced these programmers are.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From nil at dev.nul  Sat Oct 15 00:31:53 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:31:53 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"jon" <jon_usenet at capisco.com> wrote in message 
news:1129216693.445956.155490 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> To take the heat out of the discussion:
>
> sets are blazingly fast.

I'd prefer a (however) rough characterization
of computational complexity in terms of Big-Oh
(or Big-whatever) *anytime* to marketing-type
characterizations like this one...

Regards,
Christian




From http  Tue Oct 11 07:46:51 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 04:46:51 -0700
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
References: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <7x64s41djo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:
> or is the "proper python" way simply this:
> 
> def fn(*values, **options):
>      if "cmp" in options: comparison = options["cmp"]
>      else: comparison = cmp
>      # rest of function here
> 
> and thus ignoring the wrong parameter names?

I don't know about "proper" but it's pretty common.  You could also
use a positional arg:

  def fn(cmp, *values):
     # blah blah

   fn(cmp, 1, 2, 3)     # call the function

You could check for invalid keys a little more concisely than in your
example.  For example with sets:
  def fn(*values, **options):
    if Set(options.keys()) - Set(('cmp')):
      raise error...


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct 16 11:16:45 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:16:45 +0200
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rf96uFjbfetU1@uni-berlin.de>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> That is exactly what I meant, in fact. These IO thing are expected to
> have side effects so they are not subtle. Generator on the other hand,
> is sort of "clever iteratables".
> 
> Now that I notice that, Of course I can be sure I would be careful. But
> what about the following situation :
> 
> I import some function from some third party module which said, "oh, my
> function returns a iteratable". Then I can only list(o) if I want to
> pass it around or I consume it in only one and only one place. turning
> it into a list completely negate what generator is intended
> for(generate as much as you need) and using it in only one and only one
> place(like your fread example) would IMO means its usage is pretty
> limited.
> 
> Beside, I can do a fseek to rewind a file handle but not a generator
> object.

Its a question of protocol. A iterator only guarantes that you can fetch 
items from it until it is possibly exhausted. In the same way, a stream 
may only guarantee you that you can  read from it. If you need more, you 
have tgo use a different protocol. Lists are one that allows you to 
randomly access it. Files allow to seek, in addition to stream semantics.

And given that python is an imperative language with side-effects, you 
don't know what sideeffects  a generator can cause - which makes a 
"rewind" or copy-semantics to make it work several time impossible (in 
the general case, that is). So it has to focus on what it _can_ guarantee.

Haskell and other FP languages canwork differently here, as sideeffects 
are made excplicit using e.g. monads or other means - which allows for 
re-use of a generator-like construct. But there is no way to make this 
work in pythons paradigm.

Diez


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct  6 10:22:29 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:22:29 +0200
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net> <di0j8t$29ah$1@news.tsua.net>
	<ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
	<1128551304.960549.235420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d5mibu8q.fsf@python.net>

"Vinay Sajip" <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>
>> I get the behaviour that I want when I add a 'NULL' handler in the
>> library, but is this really how logging is intended to be used?
>>
>
> The reason for the one-off message is that without it, a
> misconfiguration or a failure to configure any handlers is notified to
> a user (who is possibly not used to the logging package). I'm not sure
> which is more annoying - a one-off message which occurs when no
> handlers are configured and yet events are logged, or complete silence
> from logging when something is misconfigured, and not giving any
> feedback on what's wrong? (It's a rhetorical question - the answer is
> of course quite subjective).

I do *not* think 'no handler' is a misconfiguration. Is it possible to
differentiate between a misconfiguration and 'no configuration'?

> Certainly, I could change things so that e.g. the error is suppressed
> when logging.raiseExceptions is set to 0 (typically for production
> use).

That would be fine.  But there are also other ways - you could, for
example, print the warning only when __debug__ is False.  And you could
use the warnings module instead of blindly printing to stderr, this way
it could also be filtered out.

BTW: Since I have your attention now, is the graphical utility to
configure the logging.conf file still available somewhere, and
compatible with the current logging package (with 'current' I mean
the one included with Python 2.3.5)?

Thomas


From seemysites at www.invalid  Wed Oct 26 10:25:31 2005
From: seemysites at www.invalid (Andrew Thompson)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:25:31 GMT
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vlM7f.1457$Hj2.736@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Xah Lee wrote:
....
> Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?

Does that mean you intend simply posting links to your
'articles' on computing in future?

> Thanks.

I am confident a lot of us would be (thankful if you did).


From jr2075 at columbia.edu  Sun Oct  2 09:51:38 2005
From: jr2075 at columbia.edu (Jesse Rosenthal)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:51:38 -0400
Subject: Background process for ssh port forwarding
References: <pan.2005.10.01.23.17.38.878080@columbia.edu>
	<dhnvl3$la6$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.02.13.51.37.563583@columbia.edu>

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 08:44:48 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Jesse Rosenthal wrote:
> 
>> If I end this with 'connection.interact()', I will end up logged in to the
>> forwarding server. But what I really want is to go on and run rsync to
>> localhost port 2022, which will forward to my_server port 22. So, how can
>> I put the ssh connection I set up in hostforward() in the background?
>> I need to make sure that connection is made before I can run the rsync
>> command.
> 
> $ man ssh
> 
>     ...
> 
>      -f      Requests ssh to go to background just before command execution.
>              This is useful if ssh is going to ask for passwords or
>              passphrases, but the user wants it in the background.  This
>              implies -n.  The recommended way to start X11 programs at a
>              remote site is with something like ssh -f host xterm.
> 
>     ...

Thanks for the response. I had tried that, but the problem is that it
requires that I specify some command on the server (in this case, the
forwarding server) which it executes with ssh in the bg, and then exits.
But maybe I could just run "sleep 10" or something on the server to keep
the port open long enough to ssh through it? I'll give a few things like
that a try.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 14 01:01:15 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:01:15 +0100
Subject: Hidden string formatting bug
In-Reply-To: <1f7befae0510131905i6f99be4bncef50660107823ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <910885da0510131748y16dd9603n4e013553e28797df@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f7befae0510131905i6f99be4bncef50660107823ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dine2p$93f$2@sea.gmane.org>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Echo]
> 
>>I have been trying to figure out the problem with this string formatting:
> 
> 
> [monstrous statement snipped]
> 
> 
>>when it executes, I get this error: "inv argument required".
> 
> 
> That shoud be "int", not "inv".
> 
> 
>>I have checked and rechecked both the string and the tuple. I cant figure
>>out what the problem is.  After playing around with it, i found out if change
>>the last line to: "%s,%i) %(... I get a different error. The error is "not all
>>arguments converted during string formatting".
>>
>>So I am baffled and confused as of why this wont work. Is anyone able to
>>shed some light on my hidden bug?
> 
> 
> Yup, it's precedence.  Here's the same thing:
> 
> sql = "%s" + \
>       "%i" % ("abc", 2)
> 
> Run that and you get "int argument required".  Change the last %i to
> %s and you get "not all arguments converted during string formatting".
>  Both error messages are accurate.
> 
> That's because % binds tighter than "+".  As a 1-liner, and inserting
> redundant parentheses to make the precedence obvious, my simplified
> example is
> 
> sql = "%s" + ("%i" % ("abc", 2))
> 
> What you intended _requires_ inserting more parentheses to force the
> intended order (if you're going to stick to this confusing coding
> style):
> 
> sql = ("%s" + "%i") % ("abc", 2)
> 
> Better is to not use "+" on string literals, and not use backslash
> continuation either; try this instead:
> 
> sql_format = ('string1'
>                     'string2'
>                     'string3'
>                     ...
>                     'last string')
> 
> Build the format in a separate statement to reduce the chance of
> errors (for example, your original mistake would have been impossible
> to make this way).  Use parens instead of backslashes.  Don't use "+"
> to catenate string literals:  the Python compiler automatically
> catenates adjacent string literals for you, and at compile-time (so
> it's even more efficient than using '"+").

Further to Tim's erudite language advice, I should point out the 
oft-repeated advice that you are leaving yourself wide open to SQL 
injection exploits here, and you should definitely consider using 
parameterised queries, which have been discussed here so often (and too 
recently for me to repeat) that you should easily be able to find them 
with Google.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 17:14:36 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:14:36 -0500
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <di65jo$90g$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<200510070105.12846.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<di65jo$90g$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510071614.36818.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 07 October 2005 10:52 am, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
> > reading it as written pretty much makes sense).
> 
> as a native Python speaker, I find that argument being remarkably weak.  things
> I write in Python should make sense in Python, not in some other language.

Well, since this is adopted as the Python grammar, then I guess it will make
sense in Python too, won't it?  But English grammar is already strongly
represented in Python's choices, so it's entirely consistent to do
it here, too (otherwise, explain "not in").


--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From erniedude at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 10:10:21 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 07:10:21 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2371.1129908591.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2371.1129908591.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130163021.526680.22590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> "Ernesto" wrote:
>
> > Thanks.  Can anyone provide an example of using *subprocess* to run
> > helloWorld.C through the python interpreter.
>
> compile helloWorld, and run:
>
>     import subprocess
>     subprocess.call("helloWorld")
>
> (any special reason why you couldn't figure this out yourself, given the
> example provided by gsteff ?)
>
> </F>

There is a reason (though it is not special).  I'm new to Python.  I
looked at all the documentation on subprocess, as well as popen.  I
couldn't figure it out, so I thought an example (which I thank you for
providing) would help me along (which it did).  Is there a special
reason for you having a problem with me asking for help?  I thought
that's what this group is for.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  6 03:21:15 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:21:15 +0100
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <IqGdnd3VLLXXqdneRVn-qw@telcove.net>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<IqGdnd3VLLXXqdneRVn-qw@telcove.net>
Message-ID: <di2j92$a8v$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thomas Bartkus wrote:
[...]
> 
> Others here have pointed out that the Python keyword "None" is converted to
> "Null" when passed to MySQL. I don't quite understand this and don't really
> care.  If I have a Python variable that has a value None, and I want to
> transmit this to MySQL as Null - I would:
> 
>    if somevar == None:
>        StrToConcatenateIntoSqlStatement = "Null"
>    else:
>        StrToConcatenateIntoSqlStatement = somevar
> 
> All of which assumes, of course, that the field you are targeting will
> accept a Null value.
> Thomas Bartkus
> 
> 
If you don't understand parameterized SQL queries you would do well to 
refrain from offering database advice :-)

Presumably you always check whether StrToConcatenateIntoSqlStatement 
contains no apostrophes before you actually construct the SQL?

Can we say "SQL injection exploit"?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 23:25:09 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:25:09 -0700
Subject: C extension modules in Python
In-Reply-To: <1129985879.298558.294770@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129985879.298558.294770@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djevqm$7bs$1@sea.gmane.org>

luiscasanova at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'vre written an extension module to accelarate some code i've made in
> python with numarray. Then i compiled an linke d it with swig, my
> problem is that when i make the import in my python code it gives me an
> error: ImportError: libnumarray.so: cannot open shared object file: No
> such file or directory
> 
> does anyone know why this hapens and how can i solve it?

Are you using distutils to compile and link your extension? You should be.

Are you trying to directly link against libnumarray.so (i.e. by passing
the "-lnumarray" option to the linker)? You shouldn't be.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 03:11:12 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:11:12 +0200
Subject: Tkinter or Python issue?
References: <98i5f.3686$vS1.1306@dukeread03>
	<BNidndMEAoiTVsjeRVn-gg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <dj4rih$4ft$1@sea.gmane.org>

Eugene Druker wrote:

> tkFont.Font(...) is a class instance, while you need font description.

Font instances are font descriptors.

    >>> f = tkFont.Font(family="ariel", size=24, weight=tkFont.BOLD)
    >>> f
    <tkFont.Font instance at 0x00A3AC60>
    >>> print f
    font10726496

> t.tag.config( 'TBU', font=('times', 12, 'bold','underline') )
> t.tag_config( 'AB', font=('arial',24,'bold') )

the problem here is a variation of the old garbage collection problem (Tcl
uses names as references, so the fact that Tk uses an object isn't enough to
keep Python's GC away from it).  the solution is to hold on to the objects
in Python.

</F> 





From pd at traxon.com  Mon Oct 24 03:15:36 2005
From: pd at traxon.com (Paul Dale)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:15:36 +0200
Subject: Binding a variable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211844320.14125@urchin.earth.li>
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211844320.14125@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <435C8A18.4050307@traxon.com>


Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions!

I haven't quite decided which approach I'll take, but it's nice to have 
some options.

Paul

Tom Anderson wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Paul Dale wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that
>>
>>temp = 5
>>list = [ temp ]
>>temp == 6
>>list
>>
>>would show
>>
>>list = [ 6 ]
>>    
>>
>
>As you know by now, no. Like any problem in programming, this can be 
>solved with a layer of abstraction: you need an object which behaves a bit 
>like a variable, so that you can have multiple references to it. The 
>simplest solution is to use a single-element list:
>
>  
>
>>>>temp = [None] # set up the list
>>>>temp[0] = 5
>>>>list = [temp]
>>>>temp[0] = 6
>>>>list
>>>>        
>>>>
>[[6]]
>
>I think this is a bit ugly - the point of a list is to hold a sequence of 
>things, so doing this strikes me as a bit of an abuse.
>
>An alternative would be a class:
>
>class var:
> 	def __init__(self, value=None):
> 		self.value = value
> 	def __str__(self): # not necessary, but handy
> 		return "<<" + str(self.val) + ">>"
>
>  
>
>>>>temp = var()
>>>>temp.value = 5
>>>>list = [temp]
>>>>temp.value = 6
>>>>list
>>>>        
>>>>
>[<<6>>]
>
>This is more heavyweight, in terms of both code and execution resources, 
>but it makes your intent clearer, which might make it worthwhile.
>
>tom
>
>  
>


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 12:51:00 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 09:51:00 -0700
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1776.1128800832.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<di8kmc$97c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1776.1128800832.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

So is "module.c" a new C file or do I add it to my existing, myapp.c?


Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> >    seq = PySequence_Fast(data, "expected a sequence");
> >    if (!seq)
> >        return NULL;
>
> here's some more information on the PySequence_Fast API:
> 
>     http://www.effbot.org/zone/python-capi-sequences.htm
> 
> </F>



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 08:21:51 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 05:21:51 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

then, what you proppose?



From brian.toal at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 19:57:29 2005
From: brian.toal at gmail.com (brian.toal at gmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 16:57:29 -0700
Subject: Python 2.4.2 HPUX-PARISC compile issues
Message-ID: <1128556649.531973.195000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

When compiling HPUX for PARISC with the following environemnt variables
I get the following errors.

CFLAGS=+DD64 -fast
CC=aCC
LDFLAGS=+DD64


$ make
aCC -Ae -DD64 -c  -DNDEBUG -O -I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o
Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
Error 119: "./Include/pyport.h", line 612 # #error "LONG_BIT definition
appears wrong for platform (bad gcc/glibc config?)."
    #error "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for platform (bad gcc/g
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
make: *** [Modules/python.o] Error 2


What do I need to do in order to get this to compile?



From nevillednz.python at 3ttechnology.com  Thu Oct 27 12:17:54 2005
From: nevillednz.python at 3ttechnology.com (Neville C. Dempsey)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:17:54 +0800
Subject: db.DB_CREATE|db.DB_INIT_MPOOL|db.DB_THREAD|db.DB_INIT_CDB
Message-ID: <1130429876.3105.1.camel@localhost>

Why does this python program fail to read record "6000000"?

#!/usr/bin/env python
import bsddb # twiceopen.py

key="6000000"
btf=bsddb.db.DB_INIT_THREAD

list1=bsddb.btopen("twiceopen.tbl",btflags=btf)
list1[key]="we have the technology"

list2=bsddb.btopen("twiceopen.tbl",btflags=btf)
#print "key:",key,"val:",list2[key] # doesn't work...
print "first:",list2.first() # also fails first time...

list1.close()
list2.close()

Maybe the solution needs one of: 
  db.DB_CREATE|db.DB_INIT_MPOOL|db.DB_THREAD|db.DB_INIT_CDB

N



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Oct 30 19:08:07 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:08:07 +0100
Subject: Problem With Insert with MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <000001c5ddab$e0bce8b0$0401a8c0@server2005>
References: <000001c5ddab$e0bce8b0$0401a8c0@server2005>
Message-ID: <43656067.5080308@ghaering.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Mitchell wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am a complete beginner with Python. I've managed to get mod_python up and
> running with Apache2 and I'm trying to a simple insert into a table in a
> MySQL database. 
> 
> I'm using the MySQLdb library for connectivity. I can read from the database
> no problem, but when I do an insert, the value never gets added to the
> database, even though there is no error, and the SQL is fine (I print out
> the SQL statement in the function). When I copy and paste the sql from my
> browser and insert directly into MySQL, it works fine.
> [...] Am I doing something obviously incorrect here?

It appears you forgot to call .commit() on the connection to commit your
transaction. From what you tell, it also looks like the MySQL
commandline tool defaults to autocommit (i. e. each statement is wrapped
in an implicit BEGIN ... COMMIT.

If you have no idea what a transaction is or what the heck the BEGIN,
COMMIT or ROLLBACK commands are for (corresponding to .commit() and
.rollback() methods of the DB-API2 connection object, BEGIN is issued
implicitly), then the MySQL documentation will probably answer that.

HTH,

- -- Gerhard
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDZWBndIO4ozGCH14RAuuKAJ9MiUn39dfd0FMclnYBFkXufN/wzwCdG7s4
6Bxj6HdyBbAz7u5O5tu0m7E=
=FXrV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From http  Sun Oct  2 23:26:35 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 20:26:35 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<7x1x34f85u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<867jcvmz06.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7x8xxbi8lw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> Actually, I think that the semantic changes required to make private
> do what you want are deep enough that the resulting language
> wouldn't be Python any longer. It has deep implications from the
> interpeter implementation all the way out to the design of the
> standard library, all of which would have to be reworked to make
> private do "the right thing."

Nah, I think Python could withstand those changes and still be Python.

> Which brings me to my point. Rather than trying to bandage Python to
> do what you want - and what, based on this thread, a lot of other
> people *don't* want - you should be building a system from the ground
> up to support the kind of B&D environment you want.

Heh, that goes against the principle that Python is supposed to be
good for everything.  For example, there was a partly-written web
browser called Grail written in Python, that used Python instead of
Javascript for web scripting.  I believe it depended on rexec/Bastion
to stop scripts from taking over the browser.  Wanting to write a
browser that way is perfectly reasonable.  But lack of a secure rexec
makes that approach impossible.  Maybe it's not feasible to implement
rexec in Python 2.x.  But I don't see anything B&D-ish about hoping
that as Python evolves, it becomes possible to bring back rexec.

> Of course, you do realize that in practice you can *never* get what
> you want. It assumes that the infrastructure is all bug-free, which
> may not be the case.

Yes, of course, you need to be careful at every level.


From thomasbartkus at comcast.net  Wed Oct  5 16:15:15 2005
From: thomasbartkus at comcast.net (Thomas Bartkus)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:15:15 -0500
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>
	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <IqGdnd3VLLXXqdneRVn-qw@telcove.net>

"Python_it" <python_it at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128511466.880413.158140 at g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I know how to insert values in a database.
> That's not my problem!
> My problem is how i insert NULL values in de mysql-database.
> None is een object in Python and NULL not.
> None is not converted to NULL?
> Table shows None and not NULL!

MySQL accepts and understands the keyword "Null" directly.
When you list your VALUE parameters in an INSERT statement, a null is simply
the string "Null".
Don't quote the word "Null" inside your sql statement, MySQL understands it
directly. If you do quote it, MySQL will think you are talking about a
string value that happens to be spelled "N u l l"

Your sql string needs to end up looking something like this -
sql = "INSERT INTO SomeTable (This, That, TheOther) VALUES (3, 12, Null)"
   or
sql = "UPDATE sometable SET TheOther=Null WHERE something =
SomeThingOrOther"
   before you
cursor.execute(sql)

Notice that the MySQL keyword "Null" stands naked within each string.

Others here have pointed out that the Python keyword "None" is converted to
"Null" when passed to MySQL. I don't quite understand this and don't really
care.  If I have a Python variable that has a value None, and I want to
transmit this to MySQL as Null - I would:

   if somevar == None:
       StrToConcatenateIntoSqlStatement = "Null"
   else:
       StrToConcatenateIntoSqlStatement = somevar

All of which assumes, of course, that the field you are targeting will
accept a Null value.
Thomas Bartkus




From jzgoda at o2.usun.pl  Mon Oct 31 16:23:01 2005
From: jzgoda at o2.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:23:01 +0100
Subject: looking for a good python module for MS SQL server
In-Reply-To: <dk61nj$mm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <dk61nj$mm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Message-ID: <dk6211$n1n$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Anat napisa?(a):

> Does anyone know a good python mudule that works with MS SQL server?

Google will yield something, but I prefer adodbapi over specialized
modules. Works good with SQLServer using SSPI auth (others rather not).

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct  5 02:02:30 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:02:30 +0200
Subject: Mantain IDE colors and paste them in an HTML page
References: <eJC0f.12418$133.8399@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<mailman.1475.1128463573.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk6r38.8dq.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Micah Elliott enlightened us with:
> If you're just trying to get copy/paste-able-from-browser html that
> has pretty colors, you might start up vim and use the default
> colors.  You might have to say ":syntax enable".  Then just type
> ":TOhtml" and you'll have a colorized version of your "IDE" display.

Cool, I didn't know that option. Very nice! Thanks!

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Wed Oct 19 05:54:44 2005
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 02:54:44 -0700
Subject: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs
In-Reply-To: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129715684.236796.149950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

if os.access( path, os.F_OK):
  print 'path exists'

See also os.stat(path) for further info. about a file or dir.

regards, Paul Clinch



From google at shawndyer.com  Mon Oct 17 00:19:35 2005
From: google at shawndyer.com (shawn)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 21:19:35 -0700
Subject: subtyping a builtin type in a C extension
Message-ID: <1129522775.678995.80090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to make a subtype of a string. Initially it will have no
new methods or attributes, the C equivalent of:

class myStr(str):
    pass

I have experimented a bit, but am currently making a mess of it. Does
anybody have an example they can point to of inheriting from a builtin,
or a suggestion to point me in the right direction?



From ganzhi at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 21:36:41 2005
From: ganzhi at gmail.com (James Gan)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:36:41 +0800
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<43536f15$0$19239$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <dj47vd$2n4$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Yes, that's what I need! Thank you all

bruno modulix wrote:
> James Gan wrote:
> 
>>I want the object printed in a readable format. For example,
>>x =[a, b, c, [d e]] will be printed as:
>>x--a
>> |_b
>> |_c
>> |___d
>>   |_e
>>
>>I tried pickled, marshel. They do different work. 
>>
>>Is there another
>>module which do this kind of job?
>>
> 
> 
> pprint
> 


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 11 13:12:24 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:12:24 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr><178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com><mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<digoj0$p90$1@chessie.cirr.com>
Message-ID: <digrpr$425$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ognen Duzlevski wrote:

> I am curious, does this make a difference speed wise (aside
> from loading time)? The python tutorial would seem to imply
> that it does not:
>
> >From Python-Docs-2.4.2/tut/node8.html#SECTION008120000000000000000
>
> "A program doesn't run any faster when it is read from a .pyc
> or .pyo file than when it is read from a .py file; the only thing
> that's faster about .pyc or .pyo files is the speed with which
> they are loaded."

if Python decides that the PYC (or PYO) file can be used, it does
the following

    create module
    load module code
    execute module code in module context

if it decides to use the source instead, it does:

    create module
    compile module source into module code
    save module code to PYC (or PYO) file, if possible
    execute module code in module context

so if "loading time" covers the "compiling and saving" time, it's a wash.
even if you don't include compilation in load time, the difference is still
marginal, at least for moderately-sized modules.

</F>





From timr at probo.com  Tue Oct 25 02:39:58 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:39:58 GMT
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nlkrl1tacuqf6kde90ditaptjnfdj2hstu@4ax.com>

"PyPK" <superprad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>What possible tricky areas/questions could be asked in Python based
>Technical Interviews?

What's the point of asking "tricky" questions?  Aren't you really more
interested in what applications they have worked on and whether they were
successful?

I don't know.  I'm not sure I need a job with a company that insists on
playing "Programming Jeopardy" during the interview.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From eight02645999 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 16 10:25:26 2005
From: eight02645999 at yahoo.com (eight02645999 at yahoo.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 07:25:26 -0700
Subject: odbc errors
Message-ID: <1129472726.898400.227750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

hi

i have a piece of code:
...

def connectdb(sql):
    import dbi
    import odbc
    import sys
    try:
        s = odbc.odbc('DSN=CONN;UID=user;PWD=pass')
        cur = s.cursor()
       # cur.execute("set nocount on")
        cur.execute(sql)
        while 1:
            rec = cur.fetchone()
            if not rec: break
    return rec
    except:
        print 'error while processing ', sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value
    s.close()
    cur.close()
    s = None
    cur = None

...
sql = r'update table set col = 'A' where user = "user1"'
connectdb(sql)


when i execute it from CGI, i encounter the following :
error while processing dbi.internal-error [MERANT][ODBC Sybase ASE
driver]Invalid cursor state. in FETCH None

but when i did check the table, the value of col is updated to 'A',
how can i suppress the above error message? or is there some other
things
that are wrong with the code.
thanks



From taranfx at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 15:57:29 2005
From: taranfx at gmail.com (FX)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 12:57:29 -0700
Subject: Program help
Message-ID: <1128283048.975696.101760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

can anybody write a code for a program that reads from a
/location/file & according to file contents, it execute script. e.g. if
file contains "mp" it runs media player.
I hope the code is small .. plz help me out!



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Mon Oct 10 19:31:31 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:31:31 +0100
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1796.1128872448.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102238590.18783@urchin.earth.li>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 17:39:23 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>
>> only if you're obsessed with CPython implementation details.
>
> No. I'm obsessed with finding out what closures are, since nobody seems 
> to have a good definition of them!

On the contrary - the problem is that several people have good but 
incompatible definitions of them!

I think you pretty much understand the mechanics of what's going on; i've 
spent god knows how long trying to write a clear but accurate definition 
of closures, but i can't, so i'm just going to say that (a) closures are 
functions, and (b) the things in func_closure are not closures - they're 
the variables over which a closure (the function you're inspecting) is 
closed; this is just sloppy terminology on the part of python's 
implementors.

Okay, a crack at a definition: a closure is a function in which some of 
the variable names refer to variables outside the function. And i don't 
mean global variables - i mean somebody else's locals; call them 'remote 
variables'. The 'somebody else' who owns those locals is a function whose 
scope encloses the definition of the closure function. A crucial point is 
that these names keep working even after the scope where they started out 
dies - when a closure escapes the 'mother scope' that houses its remote 
variables, those variables effectively transcend, becoming, well, i don't 
know. Nonlocal variables or something.

For some reason, this makes me think of Stephen Baxter novels. And a 
little of H. P. Lovecraft. I guess the point is that you shouldn't delve 
too deeply into the mysteries of functional programming if you wish to 
retain your humanity.

tom

-- 
Orange paint menace


From jhu at metrigenix.com  Thu Oct 27 09:32:34 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:32:34 -0400
Subject: [python-win32] simulate DoEvents by python/wxpython
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACD5@torexch.metrigenix.com>

Thanks a lot!

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hammond [mailto:mhammond at skippinet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:16 PM
To: James Hu; Python-win32 at python.org; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: [python-win32] simulate DoEvents by python/wxpython

Build 205 of win32gui does have PeekMessage etc so you can now write the
message loop in Python should the need arise - however, the various
"PumpMessages" and "PumpWaitingMessages" functions do the same thing,
but
are implemented in C.  There are versions of these functions in win32gui
and
win32ui.  win32ui is the MFC wrapper, and its version does do it the
"MFC
way", as opposed to the vanilla Windows way that win32gui exposes.  Your
code below looks like it is MFC based, so the win32ui versions may work
better for you (eg, work correctly with the MFC idle processing).  If
you do
truly only need VB DoEvents style processing (which is not MFC aware),
win32gui.Pump(Waiting)Messages should be fine though.

Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: python-win32-bounces at python.org
[mailto:python-win32-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of James Hu
Sent: Thursday, 27 October 2005 4:10 AM
To: Python-win32 at python.org; python-list at python.org
Subject: [python-win32] simulate DoEvents by python/wxpython


Hi, all gurus,

I  need to simulate DoEvents in VB by python/wxPython,
My application needs to capture live image in a loop until one specific
button pressed
Multi-thread is also not very good solution, for there are big number of
data to exchange between the two threads.

Win32gui doesn't have PeekMessage.

Or translate the folllowinf codes to python?

DoEvents()
{
  MSG msg;
         while ( ::PeekMessage( &msg, NULL, 0, 0, PM_NOREMOVE ) )
        {
        if ( !PumpMessage( ) )
        {
        ::PostQuitMessage( 1 );
        return FALSE;
        }
        }
        // let MFC do its idle processing
        LONG lIdle = 0;
        while ( OnIdle(lIdle++ ) )
        ;
        return TRUE;
        }
}


Thanks in advance,
James



From luizgeron at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 07:47:32 2005
From: luizgeron at gmail.com (Luiz Geron)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 04:47:32 -0700
Subject: PDO and database abstraction
Message-ID: <1130240852.794081.158320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
I'm testing the PDO wrapper to database modules [1] and I'm wondering
how few things like this there are around. My problem, actually, is the
paramstyle of modules. I want to use kinterbasdb in the same code I use
cx_oracle, for example, but paramstyle changes from one to other, than
I searched for things like this and found nothing really usefull. The
problem with PDO is that it was so dificult to find, since a few people
seems to use it, and I haven't yet figured how to change the paramstyle
on it, so I want to ask: Do you use a thing like this that you would
recommend to me?

Thanks,
Luiz Carlos Geron

[1] http://pdo.neurokode.com



From carsten at uniqsys.com  Tue Oct  4 08:26:22 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 08:26:22 -0400
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org>
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>
	<1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>
	<1128372287.4070.33.camel@dot.uniqsys.com> <dhs8b9$3lf$2@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1128428782.4070.42.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 17:37, Steve Holden wrote:
> Carsten Haese wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 16:41, Carsten Haese wrote:
> > 
> >>On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 15:52, Jacob Kroon wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
> >>>First let me
> >>>describe the scenario with an example:
> >>>
> >>>modules/
> >>>    fruit/
> >>>        __init__.py
> >>>        apple.py
> >>>        banana.py
> >>>
> >>>apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
> >>>problem lies in the
> >>>fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
> >>>peach.py, and not change
> >>>__init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
> >>>__init__.py. I've come halfway
> >>>by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
> >>>that the instantiated
> >>>objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
> >>>I want it to be
> >>>fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
> >>>
> >>>Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
> >>>If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
> >>>be very grateful.
> >>
> >>How about something like this in fruit/__init__.py:
> >>
> >>import os
> >>
> >>fruit_dir = os.path.dirname(__file__)
> >>fruit_files = [x for x in os.listdir(fruit_dir) if (x[-3:]=='.py' and x!='__init__.py')]
> >>for fruit_file in fruit_files:
> >>  module_name = fruit_files[:-3]
> > 
> >                   ^^^^^^^^^^^ This should be fruit_file, of course.
> > 
> > 
> >>  exec "from %s import *" % module_name
> >>
> 
> Wouldn't
> 
>      __import__(module_name)
> 
> be better.

I don't see how a working example that meets the OP's requirements can
be constructed using __import__, but that may easily be due to my lack
of imagination. How would you do it?

Regards,

Carsten Haese.




From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 02:08:07 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:08:07 -0400
Subject: piping out binaries properly
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
	<86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1129095467.30697.10.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <86ll0zw9mg.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

marduk <usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org> writes:

> On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 00:16 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
> [...]
>> It's not normal to write binary content to stdout - you normally write
>> it to a file. Open the file with open(name, 'wb') to write binaries.
>> 
>
> It is interesting that as a "Unix consultant" you should make that
> claim.  Especially since
>
>>>> sys.stdout
> <open file '<stdout>', mode 'w' at 0x2aaaaaac9198>
>       ^^^^
>
> Indeed there would be a lot of broken Unix systems out there if that
> were not the case.

Ain't ambiguity wonderful? That we use the same word to donote a
collection of bytes on a disk and a software entity that one can write
bytes to allows for all kind of mistaken interpretations.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 18 14:43:47 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:43:47 +0200
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
In-Reply-To: <43545340.277176128@news.oz.net>
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>
	<4352289a$0$15038$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4353085a.192466642@news.oz.net>
	<435434f1$0$5767$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<43545340.277176128@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <43554264$0$20585$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
>>Others reject it because of semantic difficulties: how would such
>>strings behave under concatenation, if the encodings are different?
> 
> I mentioned that in parts you snipped (2nd half here):
> 
> This could also support s1+s2 to mean generate a concatenated string
> that has the same encoding attribute if s1.encoding==s2.encoding and otherwise promotes
> each to the platform standard unicode encoding and concatenates those if they
> are different (and records the unicode encoding chosen in the result's encoding
> attribute).

It remains semantically difficult. There are other alternatives, e.g.
(s1+s2).encoding could become None, instead of using your procedure.

Also, this specification is incomplete: what if either s1.encoding
or s2.encoding is None?

Then, what recoding to the platform encoding fails? With ASCII
being the default encoding at the moment, it is very likely that
concatenations will fail if there are funny characters in either
string.

If you propose that this should raise an exception, it means that
normal string concatenations will then give you exceptions just
as often as (or even more often than) you get UnicodeErrors
currently. I doubt users would like that.

>>>This is not a fully developed idea, and there has been discussion on the topic before
>>>(even between us ;-) but I thought another round might bring out your current thinking
>>>on it ;-)
>>
>>My thinking still is the same. It cannot really work, and it wouldn't do 
>>any good with what little it could do. Just use Unicode strings.
>>
> 
> To hear "It cannot really work" causes me agitation, even if I know it's not worth
> the effort to pursue it ;-)

It is certainly implementable, yes. But it will then break a lot of 
existing code.

> Though I grant you
> 
>     #-*- coding: latin1 -*-
>     name = u'Martin L?wis' 
>     print name
> 
> is not that hard to do.

This is indeed what you should do. In Python 3, you can omit the u,
as the string type will go away (and be replaced with the Unicode type).

> (Please excuse the use of your name, which has a handy non-ascii letter ;-)

No problem with that :-)

Regards,
Martin


From tim at tt1lock.org  Sat Oct 22 18:44:24 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:44:24 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Ios9u0.7tI@bath.ac.uk>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:

> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
> That obligation has nothing to do with computing - it's to make a
> profit. It's MS's habit of doing things in pursuit of profit that,
> while short of force, are borderline fraud, and are illegal, immoral,
> unethical, bad for their business partners, bad for their customers,
> bad for the industry and bad for society that causes people to
> characterize them as "evil".

Microsoft still comes in at number 2 - on:

http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Business/Allegedly_Unethical_Firms/

Few companies are more despised than Microsoft.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 16:29:56 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?UTF-8?B?TGFzc2UgVsOlZ3PDpnRoZXIgS2FybHNlbg==?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:29:56 +0200
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KLudnUhYw4nGsdXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Leave Xah Lee alone, he's a troll, he got no interested in doing 
anything but to provoke people on usenet.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From mlh at selje.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Oct 21 08:21:32 2005
From: mlh at selje.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:21:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Beginning Python (Practical Python 2.0)
References: <slrndlchfi.kor.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>
	<jitcl1lvfhv9dc5f8n0gt1vsf7vcrovha7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlhnac.o1u.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <jitcl1lvfhv9dc5f8n0gt1vsf7vcrovha7 at 4ax.com>, Dennis Lee
Bieber wrote:
[snip]
>
> Must be printed on thinner paper... Both run around 600 pages, but
> the older book is a third thicker... <G>

Heh. Yeah. The new book has more material, too (new chapters, among
other things), so I guess the new layout also has an effect.

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                            "Preparing to stand by."
http://hetland.org                                -- Microsoft Windows


From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Wed Oct 12 17:27:35 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:27:35 -0400
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129152455.3374.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>

It depends on how you want to manipulate the data in C. If you want
compile-time variable access to each float, yeah, 50 floats. :) 

Probably what you want to do though is just keep the tuple as is and
iterate over it using the PySequence_* protocol:

http://docs.python.org/api/sequence.html

On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 13:06 -0700, Java and Swing wrote:
> I have a C function which takes an array of long values..
> 
> I understand that I can pass a tuple to a C wrapper function and in the
> C wrapper function have..
> 
> int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s(ll)", &a, &b, &c);
> 
> ..that's great if my tuple only contained two longs..but what if it
> contained 50
> would I have to do..
> 
> int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s(llllllllllllllllll....ll)", &a, &b,
> &c, &d...) ??
> 
> how can I handle this?
> 



From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct 27 02:15:20 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:15:20 GMT
Subject: strange problems with urllib2
References: <1130364688.010192.39650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0s0m1941dqut0398efaga5h2ncrlllb78@4ax.com>

"jdonnell" <jaydonnell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>When I run this code on windows it runs quickly (about a second per
>image) but when I run it on linux it runs very very slowly (10+ seconds
>per image). Is this a bug or am I missing something? On windows I tried
>2.4.2 and 2.4.1 on linux i'm running 2.4.1

That kind of thing is often caused by DNS problems.  Are you running named
on your Linux machine?  Have you double-checked that the named
configuration and /etc/resolv.conf is correct?

How long does it take for you to do this:
    wget http://site.heavenlytreasures.com/images/e6115.jpg
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de  Fri Oct 14 05:08:45 2005
From: hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de (Hans Georg Krauthaeuser)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:08:45 +0200
Subject: Help with cPickle for deserializing datetime.datetime instances
In-Reply-To: <dinj0p$ot1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <dinj0p$ot1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <dinsit$ok7$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

Mingus Tsai schrieb:
> Hello- please help with unpickling problem:
> 
> I am using Python version 2.3.4 with IDLE version 1.0.3 on a Windows
> XPhome system.
> 
> My problem is with using cPickle to deserialize my pickled arrays of
> datetime.datetime instances.  The following is the code I have written:
> 
>     import cPickle, datetime
>     import Numeric
> 
> #the file below contains a serialized dict with arrays of datetime
> #objects.  When these three statements run, the IDLE crashes!
> 
>     input1 = open('tsm2_outa','r')
>     time1 = cPickle.load(input1)
>     input1.close()
> 
> #the file below contains serialized dict with arrays of built-in objects
> #it unpickles without any problem, when I omit the above unpickling
> #operation.
> 
>     input2 = open('tsm2_outb','rb')
>     data1 = cPickle.load(input2)
>     input2.close()
> 
> My guess is that I need to somehow tell the pickle.load command that it
> is loading datetime instances, but I have no idea how to do this.  Any
> help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ming
How did you wrote the pickle-file. If you used mode 2 you have to open
the file with mode "rb", as you did for the other pickle file.

Hans


From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Fri Oct 14 15:35:46 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:35:46 +0200
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
References: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434e4ad2$1@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <lMT3f.36704$133.6628@tornado.fastwebnet.it>


"Nir Aides"  wrote
> Hello Len,
>
> You should try the #python IRC room.
> It is always very active and helpful.
>
> Nir

Do you mean efnet #Python chan?
It's not too much active... 




From michaelschneider at fuse.net  Tue Oct 25 10:38:43 2005
From: michaelschneider at fuse.net (Michael Schneider)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:38:43 -0400
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435E4373.9030002@fuse.net>

Jas,

I use a python called twisted to run processes as you describe.

Twisted is an event-driven framework that brings a change in the
way that you look at things.

take a look at:

http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/howto/process.html

Good luck, hope this is useful,
Mike


jas wrote:
> Hi,
>   I would like to start a new process and be able to read/write from/to
> it.  I have tried things like...
> 
> import subprocess as sp
> p = sp.Popen("cmd.exe", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> p.stdin.write("hostname\n")
> 
> however, it doesn't seem to work.  I think the cmd.exe is catching it.
> 
> I also tried
> f = open("out.txt", "w")
> sys.stdout = f
> os.system("cmd.exe")
> 
> ..but out.txt didn't contain any output from cmd.exe
> 
> So, how can I create a process (in this case, cmd.exe) on Windows and
> be able to read/write from/to it?
> 
> Thanks
> 


-- 
The greatest performance improvement occurs on the transition of from 
the non-working state to the working state.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 10:28:50 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:28:50 +0100
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A7@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[Giovanni Dall'Olio]

Tim Golden ha scritto:
[... bash vs Win command-line ...]

> Argh!! ;)
> How about reading a simple tutorial on bash?

[... snip signs of aggravation over my ignorance ...]

I am quite well aware of all of the ways you mention
of recalling history etc. etc. When I've tried using
them, they all seem tiresomely cumbersome in comparison
to my usual experience of typing a few characters, pressing
F8 and then continuing from there. I was aware of Ctrl-r but
I didn't think you could then go down from there. Others
have said that it's possible, so I'll revisit that.

I realise that for many people, being able to type !!-2 
or whatever the incantation is is a godsend. For me, it's
awkward at best. Horses for courses. I'm not dismissing the
entire bash experience. Of *course* I realise that you can
launch programs from it and can write scripts to loop etc.

Please understand: I'm not a whining newbie who's dipped
his toes in the water of bash and found it wanting. I'm
someone who earnestly wants to make the best use of the
tools at his disposal, in this case bash, but finds it
curiously wanting in this particular respect.

Thanks nonetheless for your explanations and ideas.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
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From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 06:53:46 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 03:53:46 -0700
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1944.1129107642.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.1944.1129107642.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129114426.017651.123560@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Steve Holden wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> > Johnny Lee wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>I've sent the source, thanks for your help.
> >>
> >
> > [...]
> > Preliminary result, in case this rings bells with people who use urllib2
> > quite a lot. I modified the error case to report the actual message
> > returned with the exception and I'm seeing things like:
> >
> > http://www.holdenweb.com/./Python/webframeworks.html
> >     Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
> > Start process
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/steveholden-20
> > Error: IOError while parsing
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/steveholden-20
> >     Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
> >     .
> >     .
> >     .
> >
> > So at least we know now what the error is, and it looks like some sort
> > of resource limit (though why only on Cygwin betas me) ... anyone,
> > before I start some serious debugging?
> >
> I realized after this post that WingIDE doesn't run under Cygwin, so I
> modified the code further to raise an error and give us a proper
> traceback. I also tested the program under the standard Windows 2.4.1
> release, where it didn't fail, so I conclude you have unearthed a Cygwin
> socket bug. Here's the traceback:
>
> End process http://www.holdenweb.com/contact.html
> Start process http://freshmeat.net/releases/192449
> Error: IOError while parsing http://freshmeat.net/releases/192449
>     Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "Spider_bug.py", line 225, in ?
>      spider.run()
>    File "Spider_bug.py", line 143, in run
>      self.grabUrl(tempUrl)
>    File "Spider_bug.py", line 166, in grabUrl
>      webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url).read()
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 130, in urlopen
>      return _opener.open(url, data)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 358, in open
>      response = self._open(req, data)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 376, in _open
>      '_open', req)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 337, in _call_chain
>      result = func(*args)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 1021, in http_open
>      return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 996, in do_open
>      raise URLError(err)
> urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
>
> Looking at that part of the course of urrllib2 we see:
>
>          headers["Connection"] = "close"
>          try:
>              h.request(req.get_method(), req.get_selector(), req.data,
> headers)
>              r = h.getresponse()
>          except socket.error, err: # XXX what error?
>              raise URLError(err)
>
> So my conclusion is that there's something in the Cygwin socket module
> that causes problems not seen under other platforms.
>
> I couldn't find any obviously-related error in the Python bug tracker,
> and I have copied this message to the Cygwin list in case someone there
> knows what the problem is.
>
> Before making any kind of bug submission you should really see if you
> can build a program shorter that the existing 220+ lines to demonstrate
> the bug, but it does look to me like your program should work (as indeed
> it does on other platforms).
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/

But if you change urllib2 to urllib, it works under cygwin. Are they
using different mechanism to connect to the page?



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:21:35 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:21:35 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<11kj8ghonmialfc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <g33rk1ddr3id7babhf4fr64tagc0q2n29e@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:04:49 -0000, gordonb.pru8x at burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote or quoted :

>>Read my essay.
>>http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
>>
>>I talk around those problems.
>>
>>It requires a fresh start.

that should read:
http://mindprod.com/projects/mailreadernewsreader.html
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Thu Oct 20 15:54:35 2005
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:54:35 +0200
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4357f5fc$0$1738$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

grunar at gmail.com a ?crit :
> 
> 
> My solution is sqlstring. A single-purpose library: to create SQL
> statement objects. These objects (such as sqlstring.Select), represent
> complex SQL Statements, but as Python objects. The benefit is that you
> can, at run-time, "build" the statement pythonically, without
> getting bogged down in String Manipulation. The theory is that once in
> use, things that were complex (string magic) become simpler, and allow
> the program to worry about higher-level issues.
> 
With the same starting point - I don't like writing SQL strings inside 
Python code either - I have tested a different approach : use the Python 
list comprehension / generator expression syntax for the select requests

I have published a recipe on the Python Cookbook : 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/442447

For instance :

s = query(r.name for r in planes if r.speed > 500)
for item in s:
	print s

query is a class whose instances are created with the generator 
expression as argument. The matching SQL request is built in the 
__init__ method, here :

SELECT r.name FROM planes AS r WHERE r.speed > 500

On two tables :

s=query(r.name for r in planes for c in countries if r.country ==
     c.country and c.continent == 'Europe')

is translated into :

SELECT r.name FROM countries AS c ,plane AS r WHERE (r.country =
     c.country AND c.continent = 'Europe')

For the moment the implementation is not very elegant, especially for 
getting the source code of the generator expression (it would be nice if 
they had an attribute for that !), and I'm not sure if it could work for 
all the forms of the SELECT syntax. But it should cover at least the 
most usual kinds of requests, with a Pythonic syntax

Regards,
Pierre


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 31 05:13:06 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 08:13:06 -0200
Subject: tachometer diagram
References: <1130753253.564379.63190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87irvengel.fsf@linux.site>

"Andreas Kaiser" <kaiser.vocote at gmail.com> writes:

> I'am searching for a python solution for display a tachometer diagram.
> I prefer a solution for wxPython.
> The plot libraries I've found do not implement this diagram type.
> Any hints welcome!

In case you change your mind, I believe there's such a thing in Qt3.  Using
pyQt you could use that.

-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From jhu at metrigenix.com  Wed Oct 26 14:10:07 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:10:07 -0400
Subject: simulate DoEvents by python/wxpython
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACD2@torexch.metrigenix.com>

Hi, all gurus,

 

I  need to simulate DoEvents in VB by python/wxPython, 

My application needs to capture live image in a loop until one specific
button pressed

Multi-thread is also not very good solution, for there are big number of
data to exchange between the two threads.

 

Win32gui doesn't have PeekMessage.

 

Or translate the folllowinf codes to python?

 

DoEvents()

{

  MSG msg;

         while ( ::PeekMessage( &msg, NULL, 0, 0, PM_NOREMOVE ) )

        {

        if ( !PumpMessage( ) )

        {

        ::PostQuitMessage( 1 );

        return FALSE;

        }

        }

        // let MFC do its idle processing

        LONG lIdle = 0;

        while ( OnIdle(lIdle++ ) )

        ;

        return TRUE;

        }

}

 

 

Thanks in advance,

James

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From http  Fri Oct  7 08:19:36 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 05:19:36 -0700
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xfyrdzfhj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> That looks great. Now, if only I understood mixins: what are they, and
> what they are for, and in particular, how they differ from mere
> subclassing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mere subclassing" so maybe there is no
difference.  Mixins are sort of a design pattern, not any whiz-tech
thing.  The terminology comes from Flavors which was one of the early
multiple inheritance OOP systems.  Flavors terminology was inspired by
ice cream: you could go to Tosci's and get plain ice cream, or ice
cream with your choice of various mix-ins like raisins, M&M's, heath
bar pieces, etc., which you could combine orthogonally.  In Flavors
and in Python, mix-ins are superclasses that you inherit to turn on a
feature.  The classic example is a Window class, with mixins for
scroll bars, title bars, pulldown menu, etc.  So if you want a window
with a scroll bar, you'd say

   class Window_with_scroll_bar(Window, Scrollbar): pass

and you'd get a class that understands the operations of both windows
and scroll bars.  Flavors had automatic method combination that you
have to spell out manually in Python, making the scheme a little bit
less useful.  But see SocketServer for a clever example of mixins to
implement concurrency in a TCP listener.  The basic server class is
TCPServer and you inherit from ThreadingMixin to make a threading
server or ForkingMixin to make a forking server.

I guess what makes something a mix-in is that you normally don't
inherit from it directly.  You inherit from some other class and the
mix-in is an "add-on" superclass that supplies some extra functionality.


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 03:09:30 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:09:30 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1066.1127905126.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1127975946.942487.214990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h435wx.k8cgta1b2p6jkN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Kay Schluehr <kay.schluehr at gmx.net> wrote:

> Honestly I like to use private/protect/public modifiers in C++ for the
> sake of code documentation. I like to know which attributes are
> dedicated to be known by other objects, which ones are for internal use
> only and which ones should be at least publicly accessible within a
> class hierarchy. This helps structuring code in the large and spotting
> attention. Code becomes easier accessible. But if we have Sunday or I

This advisory role is played in Python by naming conventions.  Start
attribute names with a single underscore to suggest "private but may be
easily overridden by subclasses" (roughly the equivalent of "protected";
Stroustrup is on record, in his book "The Design and Evolution of the
C++ Programming Language", as regretting the exact details whereby
"protected" became entrenched in C++, and wishing they could be
changed... I believe Python's single-underscore is somewhat better), two
underscores if you ever want to make names hard to override (I used to
like that, but as time goes by have come to like it less and less; right
now, unless I have to respect existing coding standards, I entirely
avoid the double-underscore usage, while single-underscores are OKish).


Alex


From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 24 12:07:41 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:07:41 -0400
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435d04b8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

jas wrote:
> Ok, I tried this...
> 
> C:\>python
> Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import subprocess as sp
>>>>p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
>>>>
>>>>result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
> 
> 'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> operable program or batch file.
> 
> 
> 
> basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
> store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
> an error with result.

This works for me:
import subprocess as sp
p = sp.Popen("ipconfig", stdout=sp.PIPE)
result = p.communicate()[0]
print result

Kent


From yacinechaouche at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 10:24:02 2005
From: yacinechaouche at gmail.com (ychaouche)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 07:24:02 -0700
Subject: importing pickle modlue execute the code twice ??
Message-ID: <1130163842.450084.176040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi !

i am having a strange experience with the pickle module. I use
python2.4 and i really don't understand what is happening on ! take a
look at this :

<code>
import pickle
print "hello"
</code>
<trace>
hello
hello
</trace>


<code>
#import pickle
print "hello"
</code>
<trace>
hello
</trace>

I just don't get it.

Thank you for any advice or help !

Y.Chaouche



From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Tue Oct 11 03:29:18 2005
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:29:18 +0200
Subject: Batteries Included?
References: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.syg0e4fxc87q46@famasm>

> I might be wrong expecting that a language whose
> moto is "Batteries Included" would be able to produce exe files. Are
> there plans to do this in the future version of Python?

Yes, you are wrong expecting that. Creating an exe-cutable is windows  
specific and python _tries_ to be platform neutral. py2exe - a wonderful  
tool which I use myself - is a battery on the shelves. It can be easily  
picked from there.

Furthermore it is not Python's philosophy to create "exe-cutables". But I  
do understand your wish (being a Windows Developper at work myself) and  
Python is not a matter of course within Windows.

Your best bet is ActiveState which bundles a windows specific version. Ask  
them, maybe they are willing to include it. Python should refrain from  
doing so.

Before overloading the "included batteries" an approach as found in Perl  
(CPAN) should be adapted... eg.  
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall

Have a nice day,
Marco



From dwahler at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 14:25:43 2005
From: dwahler at gmail.com (David  Wahler)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 11:25:43 -0700
Subject: How to processing multi redirect?
References: <1130339501.262577.230280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130351143.543653.224040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Gonnasi wrote:
> I want fetching some articles from nytimes.com for my Palm, and I want
> a clear, simple article too, my Palm has only 8M RAM.
>
> With the WGET, I can fetching the page like:
> "http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/business/26fed.html?pagewanted=print",
> and when WGET works, I can see the URL have been redirect many times.
>
> When I run the below code with Python:
> >>> thing = urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler()
> >>> opener = urllib2.build_opener(thing)
> >>> url = http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/business/26fed.html?pagewanted=print'
> >>> page = opener.open(url)
>
> I just get a error message: "HTTP Error 302: The HTTP server returned a
> redirect error that would lead to an infinite loop. The last 30x error
> message was: Moved Temporarily"
>
> Why I can't fetching the page with python, but WGET can do it?
>
> Thanks for your help in advance!
>
> --
> Gonnasi

Hi,

Your problem is that you're not preserving cookies from one request to
the next. nytimes.com redirects you to an automatic login page which
sets a cookie; this cookie is required to view the original page, or
else it'll get stuck in a loop. This fixes the problem:

>>> thing = urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler()
>>> thing2 = urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor()
>>> opener = urllib2.build_opener(thing, thing2)
>>> url = 'http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/business/26fed.html?pagewanted=print'
>>> page = opener.open(url)

Hope this helps, 

-- David



From seungwjun at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 15:13:40 2005
From: seungwjun at gmail.com (sj)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:13:40 -0700
Subject: Controlling exception handling of logging module
References: <1129746812.846802.216550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129748183.204853.75350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129749220.506462.21800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, but my point wasn't fixing the bug.  I'd like the logging
module to raise an exception on this occasion (rather than print and
consume the error) so that I can find the bug easily.  If those two
lines were part of 10,000-line code, I'd have to check all logging
statements one-by-one.



From cj at nowhere.com  Thu Oct 13 04:05:00 2005
From: cj at nowhere.com (CJ)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:05:00 GMT
Subject: Here I am again, same old arguments
References: <wg32f.411657$x96.212964@attbi_s72>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.15.12.523844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns96EE1F36ADD78cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>

 
Wow, thanks alot. I pretty much (due to my own desire to get the program to )(@#T(=!!! work and 
be done with it) just turned the list into a function that returns a list that isn't attached to 
anything but the function itself, but I've taken the advice to heart.

Most of what you posted makes sense, and is in fact easier than what I was doing, but I have 
three questions:

1) Why no global variables? I'm taking your word for it that they're bad. Far be it from me to 
argue with you, but why are they bad ideas to begin with? Most of the languages I've used up to 
this point have been reliant on globals, so I'm not entirely sure why they shouldn't be used.

2) Why no for loop with an index? Again, far be it from me to argue, but it seemed perfect for 
my program. 

3) Where do I find a command list, with syntax and all that fun stuff for Python? I've explored 
the python site to no end, but I can't seem to find a list.


Again, thanks to everyone who put my crappy noob proggie through the blender :D I really did 
learn alot. Like how my 60 line program got turned into a 15 line code snippet. (I'm not being 
sarcastic, really, thanks)




-----
Wait a minute. I can use my PSP to play GAMES?!?





Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in
news:pan.2005.10.09.12.15.12.523844 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au: 

> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:02:52 +0000, CJ wrote:
> 
>>    Okay, same program, different issue. Thanks to the help that I was
>> given I was able to complete my program to find variables in a list
>> that were repeated, and display them once, and how many times they
>> appeared in the list. And it worked great! 
>> 
>>    But, being the perfectionist that I am, I wanted to make the
>>    proggie 
>> allow any size of list, and not have to be recoded every time. So
>> step one was to not make the program reliant on the list itself being
>> of X length all the time.
> 
> First off -- don't use a for loop with an index as you are doing.
>  
>> #setup variables
>> grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",6
>> 7] grubrpt=grub
>> cntro=0
>> cntrt=0
>> rpt=0
>> skipped=0
> 
> You are doing too much manual work! Let Python do the lion's share of
> the work for you!
>  
>> #set up for variable length of grub
>> ttllen=len(grub)-1
> 
> Why are you subtracting one from the length of the list?
> 
>> print "The heck is this for loop doing?" 
>> for point in range(0,ttllen,1):
> 
> Using point as a loop index is generally a bad idea. The result coming
> from range is not a point, it is an integer, so why call it a point?
> 
> You are also over-specifying the input arguments to range. If the step
> size is one, you don't need to specify it -- that's the default. You
> just make it harder to read, for no reason. Likewise the initial
> starting value of zero. Just use range(ttllen).
> 
> This, by the way, will return a list [0, 1, 2, ... , length of list -
> TWO] because you already subtracted one from the length.
> 
>>     print "Here's Grub=",grub
>>     print "And grubrpt=",grubrpt
>>     grubrpt[point]="blk"
> 
> As others have pointed out, grub and grubrpt are both names for the
> same list. Changing one changes the other.
> 
> 
>> #Makes sure that there are not multiple prints. 
>> def alrdy_dn(grub,grubrpt):
>>     if grub[cntro] in grubrpt:
> 
> Ew!!! Global variables!!!
> 
> Bad programmer! No biscuit!!!
> 
> *wink*
> 
> Global variables are almost always a BAD idea.
> 
>>         return grubrpt
>>     else:
>>         print grub[cntro],"appears in list",rpt,"times."
>>         grubrpt[grubrpt.index("blk")]=grub[cntro] return grubrpt
> 
> This is a strange function. What exactly is it meant to do? It
> combines user interface (printing the number of times each item
> appears) and functionality (counting the number of times each item
> appears) and side effects (changing the list), before returning one of
> the input arguments again.
> 
> At least two of those things (counting the items, and printing the
> results) should be separated into different functions for ease of
> comprehension.
> 
> I'm going to skip the rest of your code, because I don't understand it
> and am too lazy, er, I mean busy, to spend the time trying to decipher
> it. Especially since the function you are trying to duplicate manually
> is so easy to do if you work with Python instead of against it.
> 
> def count_item(L, item):
>     """Count the number of times item appears in list L."""
>     return L.count(item)
> 
> Or wait... that's too easy :-)
> 
> If you want to roll your own, then do it like this:
> 
> def count_item(L, item):
>     """Count the number of times item appears in list L by reinventing
>     the wheel."""
>     n = 0
>     for obj in L:
>         if obj == item:
>             n += 1
>     return n
> 
> Notice that we don't change the list at any time. Why change it? That
> just adds complexity to our program and adds extra places to make
> bugs. Of which you have many :-)
> 
> Now you use it like this:
> 
> grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67
> ] for item in grub:
>     n = count_item(grub, item)
>     print item, "appears in list", n, "times."
> 
> 
> And you are done.
> 
> No, not quite -- my code has a bug in it. You want to print the count
> for each *unique* item. Mine prints the count for each item,
> regardless of whether it is unique or not. So what we need to keep
> track of which items have been counted before. Here is one way of
> doing it: 
> 
> grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67
> ] already_seen = []
> for item in grub:
>     if item not in already_seen:
>         n = count_item(grub, item)
>         print item, "appears in list", n, "times."
>         already_seen.append(item)
> 
> Notice that rather than *deleting* from a copy of the original list,
> we *add* to a new list that started off empty.
> 
> Here is another way:



From bbarker at traxmss.com  Tue Oct 25 21:19:28 2005
From: bbarker at traxmss.com (z0rr0)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 18:19:28 -0700
Subject: MoinMoin external file link in Mozilla/Firefox
Message-ID: <1130289568.500062.278430@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Anybody noticed problem with getting MoinMoin external file URL to work
with Mozilla/Firefox?

for example -
[file:\\servername\pathname\filename.txt Click to view] or
[file://///servername/pathname/filename.htm Click to view] or
[file:///%5C%5Cservername%5Cpathname%5Cfilename.pdf Click to view]

all work OK with Internet Exploder but not with Firefox!

If you right-click & "copy link location" and paste in Address/Location
bar in Firefox it works OK



From chris.stromberger at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:13:11 2005
From: chris.stromberger at gmail.com (chris)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:13:11 -0700
Subject: in-memory db? gadfly?
In-Reply-To: <j6udnWDQ1aThvq7eRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
References: <1127423904.731395.85320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<j6udnWDQ1aThvq7eRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1128694391.415628.301310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

sqlite worked perfectly, thanks.



From pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 09:22:11 2005
From: pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com (pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 06:22:11 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I'm now down to:

f = open("filename", "rb")
s = f.read()
sub = "\x00\x00\x01\x00"
count = s.count(sub)
print count

Which is quite fast. The only problems is that the file might be huge.
I really have no need for reading the entire file into a string as I am
doing here. All I want is to count occurences this substring. Can I
somehow count occurences in a file without reading it into a string
first?

/David



From jmw136 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 16:30:48 2005
From: jmw136 at gmail.com (John W)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:30:48 -0500
Subject: How to add one month to datetime?
Message-ID: <f7d768310510211330r303454bfxfa31d51cd19393e8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have been trying to figure out how to easily add just one month to a
datetime object?

For example if my datetime is: 1/31/2005
I want to get 2/28/2005 after adding one month.

The max I can specify in a timedelta object is days. However, since months
vary in length, I can't just add 30 days.

I have seen where mxDateTimes are being used to do this, but I was wondering
if there is simple way of doing this with built in datetime object?

Thanks in advance.

John
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From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 12:48:42 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Celine & Dave)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python profiler
Message-ID: <20051003164843.71340.qmail@web30611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello All,
 
I am trying to measure memory used in a Python
program. Also, I would like to gather some statistics
about object usages. For example, I would like to be
able to see how much time it takes to search for an
item in a dict object, how many times it has to access
the symbol table to retrieve a specific item, and
things like that. Furthermore, I would like to be able
to see how a symbol table is created, how many items
it has, how many times it is accessed during
execution, etc.

Python profiler gives timing information about
functions/methods. For example, it doesn't show how
many times a dictionary object is accessed to retrieve
a key or how much time it takes.
 
The dis module doesn't provide detailed information
either. For the following code, 

dict = { 'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3, 'd': 4, 'e': 5}
print dict.has_key('e')

The dis module provides the following:

 0 LOAD_GLOBAL            0 (dict)
 3 LOAD_ATTR                1 (has_key)
 6 LOAD_CONST              1 ('e')
 9 CALL_FUNCTION         1
 12 PRINT_ITEM       

But this doesn't really help to see what's going on
with the symbol table.   

Any help is greatly appreaciated. Thanks a lot! 
   
Regards,

Dave


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 16:51:31 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 13:51:31 -0700
Subject: Extention String returning
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2492.1130180209.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130178503.498003.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1130180209.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130187091.768108.50140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the help!



From thakadu at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 09:04:10 2005
From: thakadu at gmail.com (thakadu)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:04:10 -0700
Subject: Simple prototype text editor in python
In-Reply-To: <4345bf5f$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <1128530997.895468.164240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1128581675.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128609090.858119.28110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1617.1128610872.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4345bf5f$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <1128690250.339766.149660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for everyones advice. I finally went
for a very basic BSD style template that
I found somewhere. Its really short and
easy to understand, at least to me!



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 10:07:28 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:07:28 +0100
Subject: Psycopg2 date problems: "Can't adapt"
Message-ID: <4358F620.7040107@holdenweb.com>

I'm trying to copy data from an Access database to PostgreSQL, as the 
latter now appears to work well in the Windows environment. However I'm 
having trouble with date columns.

The PostgreSQL table receiving the data has the following definition:

CREATE TABLE Lines (
   LinID SERIAL PRIMARY KEY,
   LinDate   TIMESTAMP(0),
   LinQty    INTEGER,
   LinPrdID  INTEGER ,
   LinPrice  NUMERIC(8,2),
   LinInvoice INTEGER)

Here's the problem in a nutshell:

 >>> d
<DateTime object for '2003-10-02 00:00:00.00' at af9be0>
 >>> ocurs.execute("DELETE FROM Lines")
 >>> osql
'INSERT INTO Lines(LinID, LinDate, LinQty, LinPrdID, LinPrice, 
LinInvoice) VALUES(%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)'
 >>> ocurs.execute(osql, (1, d, 1, 1, 12500.0, 88))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<string>", line 1, in <string>
psycopg.ProgrammingError: can't adapt
 >>> ocurs.execute(osql, (1, None, 1, 1, 12500.0, 88))
 >>>

Since the date value's the only difference between the two, I deduce 
it's causing the problem.

I'd rather not have to manipulate the data (in other words, I'd rather 
just change the definition of the receiving table to avoid the error if 
possible), as the copying operation attempts to be table-independent. It 
currently reads:

for tbl, cols in d.items():
     print "Copying", tbl
     dsql = "DELETE FROM %s" % tbl
     ocurs.execute(dsql)
     isql = "SELECT %s FROM %s" % (", ".join(cols), tbl)
     osql = "INSERT INTO %s(%s) VALUES(%s)" % (
         tbl, ", ".join(cols), ", ".join("%s" for c in cols))
     print isql, '\n', osql
     icurs.execute(isql)
     for row in icurs.fetchall():
         ocurs.execute(osql, row)

Though until I started stepping through the data row by row the last two 
lines were replaced by

     ocurs.executemany(osql, icurs.fetchall())

Who can help me past this little sticking point?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From iainking at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 04:29:06 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 01:29:06 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211842340.14125@urchin.earth.li>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129853715.441205.322480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86wtk7ty71.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211220250.22209@urchin.earth.li>
	<1129903667.255441.133490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211842340.14125@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1130142546.716611.203130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, vdrab wrote:
>
> > You can tell everything is well in the world of dynamic languages when
> > someone posts a question with nuclear flame war potential like "python
> > vs. ruby" and after a while people go off singing hymns about the beauty
> > of Scheme...
>
> +1 QOTW
>
> > I love this place.
>
> Someone should really try posting a similar question on c.l.perl and
> seeing how they react ...
> 
> tom

SSshhhhhhhhh! Xah Lee might be listening!

Iain



From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Sun Oct 30 13:23:49 2005
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:23:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: process and spinning slash
References: <1130690731.654048.157590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h58mez.1jo7cnd1lilqm2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dk333l$3kt$1@news.island.liu.se>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Have the spin function accept the pid argument and exit the loop if said
> pid has terminated; to check the latter, e.g., os.kill(pid, 0) -- this
> will raise an OSError if no process with that pid exists, so you can use
> a try/except OSError: to catch that and break as appropriate.

Bad idea.

Even after the process has exited, it will exist as a zombie until
you os.wait() och os.waitpid() for it.  Sending signal 0 to it
will thus always succeed.

If you do wait for the child process, so the zombie disappears,
the process id can be reused by the OS.  Some Unixes reuse pids
very quickly (if I remember correctly, AIX do so), and others more
slowly, but there is *always* the risk of the pid being reused
immediately after the zombie was removed.  Of course, if you wait
for the process, you will know that it has died and don't need to
check by sending a signal to it if it is alive...

The best way to poll for the termination of a child process, is

    dead_child, status = os.waitpid(pid, os.WNOHANG)
    if dead_child == 0:
	print "No child has died"
    elif dead_child == pid:
	print "The child process we waited for has died"
    else:
	print "Some other child process has died"

The last branch can't happen if you wait for a specific process.
(Process ids <= 0 given to waitpid have special meanings; read
the manual page for waitpid(2) for those.)

If the child process was started using subprocess.Popen, you
should usually use the poll() methods on the Popen object to
check if the process has terminated.


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"You are in a twisty little passage of       !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 standards, all conflicting."                !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 17 19:16:46 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:16:46 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2A9E6FFF60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.17.23.16.45.433200@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:42:09 +0000, John Bokma wrote:

>> When did Netscape executives perjure themselves in court?
>> 
>> When did Netscape commit fraud? Astro-turfing? Patent infringement? Theft
>> of code?
> 
> They got killed too soon.

Neither the Netscape executives nor Netscape the company have been killed.

 
>> that was then, this is now, and unlike IBM, Microsoft hasn't yet learnt
>> about karma.
> 
> Which is a good thing, since MS is not a human being. It's a company, a 
> thing to make money, so it can make more money.

Microsoft is a collection of human beings. They don't get to excuse
anti-social behaviour on the basis that they're only trying to make money.

-- 
Steven.



From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Oct 22 18:00:30 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:00:30 -0400
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051022220030.27584.900132537.divmod.quotient.2804@ohm>

On 22 Oct 2005 14:12:16 -0700, "eduardo.padoan at gmail.com" <eduardo.padoan at gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm reading about "high order messages" in Ruby by Nat Pryce, and
>thinking if it could be  util and if so, if it could be done in Python.
>Someone already tried?

Here's an example of the idea, in Python:

    def messageA():
        print 'Message A received!'

    def messageB(otherMessage):
        print 'Message B received!  Sending some other message.'
        otherMessage()

    messageB(messageA)

Since this is a basic feature of Python, we usually don't call them messages.  Instead, "functions" or sometimes "methods".

Jp


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 12:48:36 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:48:36 +0200
Subject: updating local()
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di1050$jua$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Flavio" <fccoelho at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can anyone tell me why, if the following code works, I should not do
> this?

because it doesn't work:

#
# Extending Local namespace, now with Local namespace
#

def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):
    k="K"
    v="V"
    print 'locals:',locals()
    locals().update(args)
    print locals()
    print k
    print v

e = {'s':3,'e':4}
fun(k=10,v=32,**e)


</F> 





From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Oct 13 04:10:28 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:10:28 +0200
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>

magneticlemur at gmail.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of an available downloader for an amd64 bit
> build of (a modern) python?

There is no official build. The only official Win64 build is
for Itanium, see www.python.org/2.4.2

> I've done my due diligence search of python docs and
> mailing archives, and I'm somewhat mystified by the lack of info
> on this topic.

I'm not at all mystified. The operating system was only released
after the release of Python 2.4, there is no official compiler
available yet to the general public, and I don't have the hardware
to test such a release.

It's fairly likely that Python 2.5 will not see official AMD64
Windows binaries, either.

> I'm embedding python in a native 64 bit
> application so python32 using WOW64
> is not an option for me.

So you should build this on your own.

> Alternatively, does anyone have experience
> of using the visual studio files in the PCBuild
> directory under amd64?

A number of people have tried this. There is one open issue
with signal handling: VS 2005 will apparently drop compatibility
with Standard C in one aspect where previous releases used to
be C compatible (namely, processing of unsupported signal
numbers in signal(3)). Because of that, Python will raise
an assertion failure in the debug build.

Regards,
Martin


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Fri Oct 28 19:09:18 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:09:18 -0500
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3sfpd4Fo5jhjU1@individual.net>

<pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1130497567.764104.125110 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I want to scan a file byte for byte for occurences of the the four byte
> pattern 0x00000100. I've tried with this:
>
> # start
> import sys
>
> numChars = 0
> startCode = 0
> count = 0
>
> inputFile = sys.stdin
>
> while True:
>    ch = inputFile.read(1)
>    numChars += 1
>
>    if len(ch) < 1: break
>
>    startCode = ((startCode << 8) & 0xffffffff) | (ord(ch))
>    if numChars < 4: continue
>
>    if startCode == 0x00000100:
>        count = count + 1
>
> print count
> # end
>
> But it is very slow. What is the fastest way to do this? Using some
> native call? Using a buffer? Using whatever?
>
> /David

Here is an attempt at counting and using the mmap facility.  There appear to 
be some serious backward compatibility issues.  I tried Python 2.1 on 
Windows and AIX and had some odd results.  If you are 2.4.1 or higher that 
should not be a problem.

#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys
import os
import mmap

fn = 't.dat'
ss = '\x00\x00\x01\x00'

fp = open(fn, 'rb')
b = mmap.mmap(fp.fileno(), os.stat(fp.name).st_size, 
access=mmap.ACCESS_READ)

count = 0
foundpoint = b.find(ss, 0)
while foundpoint != -1 and (foundpoint + 1) < b.size():
    count = count + 1
    foundpoint = b.find(ss, foundpoint + 1)
b.close()

print count

fp.close()
sys.exit(0) 




From jmw136 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 22:11:58 2005
From: jmw136 at gmail.com (John W)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:11:58 -0600
Subject: Does Asyncore Send require newline?
In-Reply-To: <4366D9F9.8050608@holdenweb.com>
References: <f7d768310510311850u99221c5v633d902e34278399@mail.gmail.com>
	<4366D9F9.8050608@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <f7d768310510311911r40e2704cpe2554c613e3693eb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Steve,

Here is what I have for my server (This code is really not that pretty, I
apologize):

import socket
import SocketServer

class CommonServer(SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer):
def server_bind(self):
"""Override server_bind to store the server name."""
SocketServer.TCPServer.server_bind(self)
host, port = self.socket.getsockname()
if not host or host == '0.0.0.0 <http://0.0.0.0>':
host = socket.gethostname()
hostname, hostnames, hostaddrs = socket.gethostbyaddr(host)
if '.' not in hostname:
for host in hostnames:
if '.' in host:
hostname = host
break
self.server_name = hostname
self.server_port = port

print self.server_name
print port

class CommonRequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
def handle(self):
print "Handling request"

self.wfile.write('000 Connected ')
datastart = 0
while 1:
print "looping"
s = self.rfile.readline()
print "Message:" + s
if s[-2:] == ' ': s = s[:-2]
elif s[-1:] == ' ': s = s[:-1]

s = s[0:4]
if s == 'QUIT':
print "Quit"
self.wfile.write('000 Bye\n')
break
elif s == 'NAME':
print "Name"
self.wfile.write('000 My name is Python\n')
elif s == 'DATA':
print "Data"
self.wfile.write('000 Data Message\n' )
else:
print "Unknown"
self.wfile.write('200 Unknown Command\n')

def setup(self):
SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler.setup(self)

def test():
portnum = 8001
comserver = CommonServer(('', portnum), CommonRequestHandler )
comserver.handle_request()

print "Running"

if __name__ == '__main__':
test()

Here is what I have for my client:
ASYNC_POLL_LENGTH = 0.05

class Connection(asyncore.dispatcher):
def __init__ (self, server, socket_num):
self.server_name = str( server )
self.port_num = socket_num
self.message_queue = []
self.current_message = 0

self.rcv_data = ""

asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
self.create_socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM )
self.connect(( self.server_name, self.port_num ))

def handle_connect( self ):
print "CONNNECTED"

# collect some more finger server output.
def handle_read_event( self ):
print "handle_read_event received"

self.rcv_data = ""

more = self.recv(512)
print "More Data: %s" % more
self.rcv_data = self.rcv_data + more
print "RCV Data: %s" % self.rcv_data

if self.current_message:
print "Message: %s Type: %s RCV Data: %s" % (self.current_message['data'],
self.current_message['type'], self.rcv_data )
self.current_message['callback']( self.current_message, self.rcv_data )


# the other side closed, we're done.
def handle_close( self ):
print 'Handling Close Event'
self.connected_callback( False )

def handle_write( self ):
# If there is a message in the queue
if len( self.message_queue ) > 0:
# Pop the first message off the queue
self.current_message = self.message_queue.pop(0)
print "Sending Message: %s" % self.current_message['data']
self.send(self.current_message['data'] + "\n")

def queue( self, message ):
self.message_queue.append( message )
print "Message Queued: %s" % message['data']

#========================================================================================
class TestAppClient:
def __init__( self, server, socket ):
self.server = server
self.socket = socket

self.nomad = Connection( server, socket )
asyncore.loop(count=1)

Then I use a timer to call "asyncore.loop(count=1)" every 10ms or on the
IDLE loop of my GUI.

The line in red is what I have to append the '\n' to in order for my server
to get it.

Thanks in advance,

John


On 10/31/05, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
> John W wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have a test environment that consists of a server and an application
> that
> > opens an asyncore socket and communicates with it.
> >
> > In my application, on the handle_write call, if I do not append a "\n"
> to my
> > message the server never gets the message. If I do append it, the server
> can
> > read the message and act accordingly.
> >
> > So my call looks like this:
> > self.send( message] + "\n")
> >
> > Is this how it was designed? Do you have to send a '\n' to have the data
> > read? I can't find a whole lot of documentation on the send method.
> >
> > If you could offer some help, I would appreciate it.
> >
> The short answer to your question is "no, send() does not require
> newline". But much depends on your protocol design and on explicit
> details of your client and server software. You'd probably have to post
> a bit more code before we could say why you are seeing what you are
> seeing.
>
> regards
> Steve
> --
> Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com <http://www.holdenweb.com>
> PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ <http://www.python.org/pycon/>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 16:50:58 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:50:58 -0000
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1456.1128451581.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128456405.664869.170530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xbr25xbot.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <11k5qpiri213s59@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>> > Hmm...perhaps he is trying to do a transfer thing like many chat
>> > programs do. Instead of sending large files across a server, you
>> > "Direct Connect" and send the file directly. :shrugs:
>> 
>> So how does that require binding the client end of a TCP connection?
>
> In the nomenclature of some of these applications, that kind
> of transfer is called a client to client connection.  Both
> ends are called clients.

IIRC, we were talking about TCP sockets.  In a TCP connection,
one end is the client (the one that originates the connection),
and the other end is the server (the one that waits for the
connection on a "well-known" port).

The server calls bind()/listen(), and typically the client just
calls connect().  In theory, the client end can call bind() to
control the originating port used for the connection. But,
servers don't care what the orignating port is, so on the
client end bind() is usually skipped since the default
connect() operation will just choose an available port.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  It's strange, but I'm
                                  at               only TRULY ALIVE when I'm
                               visi.com            covered in POLKA DOTS and
                                                   TACO SAUCE...


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Oct 27 04:14:24 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:14:24 -0400
Subject: Web presentation layer/framework for python - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <OF69E716FF.765A3D1C-ON692570A6.007E8380@ntu.edu.au>
References: <OF69E716FF.765A3D1C-ON692570A6.007E8380@ntu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <43608C60.6050003@bellsouth.net>

Anthony.Hornby at cdu.edu.au wrote:

>Hi,
>I am a python newbie and need some advice.
>I have been charged with redeveloping a web application with a front end written in python that has a backend of XML files.
>Currently it doesn't adequately separate out the presentation code from the content code.
>Frankly it?s a mess (think bowl of spagetti).
>
>Does anyone have any recommendations for python toolkits or templating systems that would simplify the cleanup and make the code more maintainable in the future? I am a newbie, but not afraid to have a go. I also haven't done any real application programming for a while - bit of perl and java stuff a few years back. Just do perl/python/shell scripting these days.
>
>All comments welcome :-)
>
>Regards Anthony.
>
> Mr Anthony Hornby
>Library Systems and Technology Coordinator
>Charles Darwin University (CRICOS 300K)
>Phone: +61 8 8946 6011
>Email: anthony.hornby at cdu.edu.au.no-spam
>(remove the .no-spam)
>  
>
I've personally been pretty fond of TurboGears lately.  It encourages a 
really clean MVC with SQLObject as the default model layer.  I haven't 
checked, but I don't think SQLObject supports XML as a data source, but 
you could definitely write your own XML data access layer and use 
TurboGears.

- jmj


From gatti at dsdata.it  Mon Oct 10 05:17:02 2005
From: gatti at dsdata.it (gatti at dsdata.it)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 02:17:02 -0700
Subject: propagating distutil user options between commands
Message-ID: <1128935822.617900.274720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

When building a C extension, Distutils standard command 'install' calls
the 'build' command before performing the installation (see
Lib/distutils/command/install.py and build.py).
Reusing the build command is the correct way to ensure the installation
payload is ready, but the two commands support very different sets of
user options and it is impossible to combine them: install validates
them at the beginning, rejecting user options meant for build as
"unrecognized".
This becomes a problem with necessary build options like --compiler;
there is an easy workaround for my specific case (running setup.py
twice: "build --compiler=..." then "install --skip-build"), but
--skip-build is an ad hoc option, other combinations of commands and
options can have the same problem.
There are systematic solutions, like letting every option propagate to
subcommands without checking, on the assumption that unrecognized
options do no harm, or labeling options by command (e.g. setup.py
install --build:compiler=foo --install_scripts:force) to let every
command validate its options only and limit options to specific
commands as a byproduct.
What are the reasons for the current strict policy in Distutils? Can it
be changed?

Lorenzo Gatti



From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Mon Oct 10 05:06:57 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:06:57 +1000
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndkkasd.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <434A2F31.6010507@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Ville Voipio wrote:

> There are a gazillion things which may go wrong. A stray cosmic
> ray may change the state of one bit in the wrong place of memory,
> and that's it, etc. So, the system has to be able to recover from
> pretty much everything. I will in any case build an independent
> process which probes the state of the main process. However,
> I hope it is never really needed.

If you have enough hardware grunt, you could think 
about having three independent processes working in 
parallel. They vote on their output, and best out of 
three gets reported back to the user. In other words, 
only if all three results are different does the device 
throw its hands up in the air and say "I don't know!"

Of course, unless you are running each of them on an 
independent set of hardware and OS, you really aren't 
getting that much benefit. And then there is the 
question, can you trust the voting mechanism... But if 
this is so critical you are worried about cosmic rays, 
maybe it is the way to go.

If it is not a secret, what are you monitoring with 
this device?


-- 
Steven.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 22:35:20 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:35:20 -0700
Subject: C extension modules in Python
References: <1129985879.298558.294770@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4umcj.zrh5q5p2iwskN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<luiscasanova at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'vre written an extension module to accelarate some code i've made in
> python with numarray. Then i compiled an linke d it with swig, my
> problem is that when i make the import in my python code it gives me an
> error: ImportError: libnumarray.so: cannot open shared object file: No
> such file or directory
> 
> does anyone know why this hapens and how can i solve it?

It seems that the libnumarray.so (which your extension is probably
trying to load) is not in a directory where your system will like
loading it from.  It's hard to say more without knowing about your
system, and the way you've set things up for it in terms of loading of
dynamic libraries (which IS a very system-dependent thing).


Alex


From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 16 13:19:11 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:19:11 GMT
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <jYv4f.152052$xl6.59875@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Christian Stapfer wrote:
> "Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote in message
> news:cTp4f.16180$ae.11317 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> 
>>Christian Stapfer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This discussion begins to sound like the recurring
>>>arguments one hears between theoretical and
>>>experimental physicists. Experimentalists tend
>>>to overrate the importance of experimental data
>>>(setting up a useful experiment, how to interpret
>>>the experimental data one then gathers, and whether
>>>one stands any chance of detecting systematic errors
>>>of measurement, all depend on having a good *theory*
>>>in the first place). Theoreticians, on the other hand,
>>>tend to overrate the importance of the coherence of
>>>theories. In truth, *both* are needed: good theories
>>>*and* carefully collected experimental data.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Christian
>>
>>An interesting parallel can be made concerning management of production vs
>>management of creativity.
>>
>>In general, production needs checks and feedback to insure quality, but
>>will often come to a stand still if incomplete resources are available.
>>
>>Where as creativity needs checks to insure production, but in many cases
>>can still be productive even with incomplete or questionable resources.
>>The quality may very quite a bit in both directions, but in creative
>>tasks, that is to be expected.
>>
>>In many ways programmers are a mixture of these two.  I think I and Steven
>>use a style that is closer to the creative approach. I get the feeling
>>your background may be closer to the production style.
> 
> 
> This diagnosis reminds me of C.G. Jung, the psychologist,
> who, after having introduced the concepts of extra- and
> introversion, came to the conclusion that Freud was
> an extravert whereas Adler an introvert. The point is
> that he got it exactly wrong...
> 
>  As to the value of complexity theory for creativity
> in programming (even though you seem to believe that
> a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
> creativity), the story of the discovery of an efficient
> string searching algorithm by D.E.Knuth provides an
> interesting case in point. Knuth based himself on
> seemingly quite "uncreatively theoretical work" (from
> *your* point of view) that gave a *better* value for
> the computuational complexity of string searching
> than any of the then known algorithms could provide.
> 
> Regards,
> Christian


> (even though you seem to believe that
>> a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
>> creativity)

No, that is not at all what I believe.  What I believe is, "The 
insistence of strict conditions can limit creative outcomes."

The lack of those limits does not prevent one from using any resources 
(including theoretical ones) if they are available.

You seem to be rejecting experimental results in your views.  And the 
level of insistence you keep in that view, leads me to believe you favor 
a more productive environment rather than a more creative one.  Both are 
good, and I may entirely wrong about you, as many people are capable of 
wearing different hats depending on the situation.

I think the gist of this thread may come down to...

In cases where it is not clear on what direction to go because the 
choices are similar enough to make the choosing difficult.  It is almost 
always better to just pick one and see what happens than to do nothing.

Cheers,
    Ron



From fphsml at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 04:41:07 2005
From: fphsml at gmail.com (James)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 01:41:07 -0700
Subject: destroy your self????
In-Reply-To: <kPD5f.162041$xl6.94391@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<kPD5f.162041$xl6.94391@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1129797667.477066.170090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Doesn't work for classes because self has no global reference.



From ywb5454 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 06:34:47 2005
From: ywb5454 at gmail.com (Bean)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 03:34:47 -0700
Subject: do cc list from smtplib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2349.1129887897.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129887280.469124.107340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2349.1129887897.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129890887.276091.37350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Tim Williams (gmail) wrote:
> On 21 Oct 2005 02:34:40 -0700, eight02645999 at yahoo.com
> <eight02645999 at yahoo.com>
> >
> > def email(HOST,FROM,TO,CC,SUBJECT,BODY):
> >     import smtplib
> >     import string, sys
>
> >     body = string.join((
> >     "From: %s" % FROM,
> >     "To: %s" % TO,
> >     "CC: %s % CC,
> >     "Subject: %s" % SUBJECT,
> >     "",
> >     BODY), "\r\n")
> >
> >     print body
> >
> >     server = smtplib.SMTP(HOST)
> >     server.sendmail(FROM, [TO]+[CC],body)
> >     server.quit()



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 18:49:35 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 00:49:35 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Brandon K wrote:
> Hrm...i find it demeaning to relegate Python to a scripting language 
> while Visual Basic is in the "software development" section.  Python so 
> outdoes VB in every way shape and form.
> 
<snip>

In that respect I would very much like to see a definition of "scripting 
language" as well :)

In other words, what is the difference between a "scripting language" 
and a "programming language".

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct  3 09:08:57 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:08:57 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43412d69$0$11141$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

James A. Donald wrote:
> I am contemplating getting into Python, which is used by engineers I
> admire - google and Bram Cohen, but was horrified 

"horrified" ???

Ok, so I'll give you more reasons to be 'horrified':
- no private/protected/public access restriction - it's just a matter of
conventions ('_myvar' -> protected, '__myvar' -> private)
- no constants (here again just a convention : a name in all uppercase
is considered a constant - but nothing will prevent anyone to modify it)
- possibility to add/delete attributes to an object at runtime
- possibility to modify a class at runtime
- possibility to change the class of an object at runtime
- possibility to rebind a function name at runtime
....

If you find all this horrifying too, then hi-level dynamic languages are
not for you !-)

> to read
> 
> "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."

No declarative static typing is necessary - which not the same thing. In
Python, type informations belong to the object, not to names that are
bound to the object.

Of course you cannot use a variable that is not defined ('defining' a
variable in Python being just a matter of binding a value to a name).

> Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
> mysteriously fail to work with no error message.

Depends. If you try to use an undefined variable, you'll get a name error:

>>> print var1 # var1 is undefined at this stage
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'var1' is not defined

Now if the typo is on the LHS, you'll just create a new name in the
current namespace:

myvra = 42 # should have been 'myvar' and not 'myvra'

But you'll usually discover it pretty soon:

print myvar
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'myvar' is not defined


> If you don't declare variables, you can inadvertently re-use an
> variable used in an enclosing context when you don't intend to,

yes, but this is quite uncommon.

The 'enclosing context' is composed of the 'global' (which should be
named 'module') namespace and the local namespace. Using globals is bad
style, so it shouldn't be too much of a concern, but anyway trying to
*assign* to a var living in the global namespace without having
previously declared the name as global will not overwrite the global
variable - only create a local name that'll shadow the global one. Since
Python is very expressive, functions code tend to be small, so the
chances of inadvertently reuse a local name are usually pretty low.

Now we have the problem of shadowing inherited attributes in OO. But
then the same problem exists in most statically typed OOPLs.

> or
> inadvertently reference a new variable (a typo) when you intended to
> reference an existing variable.

Nope. Trying to 'reference' an undefined name raises a name error.

> What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug?

1/ write small, well-decoupled code
2/ use pychecker or pylint
3/ write unit tests

You'll probably find - as I did - that this combination (dynamic typing
+ [pylint|pychecker] + unit tests) usually leads to fewer bugs than just
relying on declarative static typing.

What you fear can become reality with some (poorly designed IMHO)
scripting languages like PHP, but should not be a concern with Python.
Try working with it (and not to fight agaisnt it), and you'll see by
yourself if it fits you.

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct 21 15:20:32 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:20:32 +0200
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <1129761106.725465.42290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2269.1129752317.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129761106.725465.42290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rstc0Fl9atoU1@uni-berlin.de>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
>>reset your brain:
>>
>>    http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm
> 
> 
> Neat link.
> 
> Can you expand on this:
> 
> 
>>a type (returned by type(x))
> 
> ...
> 
>>You cannot change the type.
> 
> 
> Especially what's going on here:
> 
> 
>>>>class a(object):
> 
> ...     pass
> ...
> 
>>>>class b(a):
> 
> ...     pass
> ...
> 
>>>>x=b()
>>>>x.attr=1
>>>>type(x)
> 
> <class '__main__.b'>
> 
>>>>type(y)
> 
> <class '__main__.b'>
> 
>>>>x.__class__=a
>>>>type(x)
> 
> <class '__main__.a'>
> 
>>>>x.attr
> 
> 1
> 
> It looks to me like x is still referencing the same object (and still
> has the "attr" attribute) but its type has changed.  Is that not right?

So what? That the flexibility of python allows for such a hack has 
nothing to do with x being totally unaware of the type of the object it 
points to.

You only access values by names pointing/refering to them. If they are 
mutable, you can mutate them. If not (like strings, ints and floats), 
you have to rebind the name with a new value. But none of these changes 
what x is - and what not. Its a name, pointing to a value, and knows 
nothing about what it is actually bound to.


Regards,

Diez


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct 28 19:41:54 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:41:54 +1000
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:29:46 +0200, Bj?rn Lindstr?m wrote:

> "pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com" <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> f = open("filename", "rb")
>> s = f.read()
>> sub = "\x00\x00\x01\x00"
>> count = s.count(sub)
>> print count
> 
> That's a lot of lines. This is a bit off topic, but I just can't stand
> unnecessary local variables.
> 
> print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")

Funny you should say that, because I can't stand unnecessary one-liners.

In any case, you are assuming that Python will automagically close the
file when you are done. That's good enough for a script, but not best
practice.

f = open("filename", "rb")
print f.read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")
f.close()

is safer, has no unnecessary local variables, and is not unnecessarily
terse. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the original poster's problem,
because his file is too big to read into memory all at once -- or so he
tells us.


-- 
Steven.



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 08:56:12 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:56:12 -0500
Subject: C Extension - return an array of longs or pointer?
In-Reply-To: <1129121392_1305@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129121392_1305@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1129121939_1307@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

I'm sorry...I just woke up and forgot my C...must have left it in the 
Coffee...Anyway, i made a few mistakes (can't initialize blank 
tuple...function should return a value, lol).

static PyObject* wrap_doNumberStuff(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
	char* in = 0;
	char* x = 0;
	long* result = 0;
	int i = 0;
	PyObject* py = NULL;
	if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"ss",&in,&x) return NULL;
	
	result = doNumberStuff(in,x);
	len = sizeof(result)/sizeof(long);
	py = PyTuple_New(len);
	for(i; i < len; i++)
		PyTuple_SET_ITEM(py, i, Py_BuildValue("l",*result[i]);

	return py;
}

Additionally, the Python/C api in the docs tells you all of these nifty 
little abstract layer functions that you can call from your extension.

> All the veteran programmers out there can correct me, but the way I did 
> it in my extension was this:
> 
> static PyObject *wrap_doNumberStuff(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
> {
>     char* in = 0;
>     char* x = 0;
>     long* result = 0;
>     int i = 0;
>     PyObject* py = PyTuple_New()
>     int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"ss",&in, &x);
>     if(!ok) return NULL;
> 
>     result = doNumberStuff(in,x):
>     len = sizeof(result)/sizeof(long)
>     for(i;i < len; i++)
>         PyTuple_SET_ITEM(py, i,Py_BuildValue("l",*result[i])   
> }
> 
> Simple enough idea...i'm not quite sure if I've done everything 
> correctly with the pointers, but I'm sure you can figure that out, the 
> algorithm is simple enough.
> 


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 11:09:49 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:09:49 -0500
Subject: Confused on Kid
Message-ID: <1128957144_131989@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

Hey, so I heard about the TurboGears posting and decided to investigate. 
     I watched some of their video on building a wiki in 20 minutes and 
was totally blown away because I'm used to python...straight python, not 
melding together 4 different APIs into one to blah blah.  ANYWAY.  I was 
investigating each subproject individually and could not, for the life 
of me figure out how Kid worked.  I understand that it takes a 
well-formed XML document and transforms it, but I could not figure out 
where it transforms it, or how to transform a document.  They have 
plenty of template examples, but I'm left say, "What do I do with this?" 
I know I can't just pop in it a browser because it has no sort of style 
sheet or anything so it would just render as an XML document.  What do 
you do after you have a kid template?


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 12:32:31 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 09:32:31 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <s9zu0fm66uf.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zy84y67r1.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
	<1129133752.747652.246050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zu0fm66uf.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1129134751.371726.86030@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

As far as my C Wrapper functions are concerned...I no longer have the
need for free(...).  I do use PyMem_Free, for structures I allocated by
using PyMem_New(...).

In my C code I do have things such as...

char *foo(const char *in) {
    char *tmp;
    tmp = (char *) malloc((strlen(in) * sizeof(char)) + 1);
    strcpy(tmp, in);
    ...
    ...
    free(tmp);
    return someValue;
}

Is that appropriate?  I was under the impression that when you malloc
memory, you free it when done.

I also have things like...

char *bar(char *in) {
    char *results, *finalResults;
    results = (char *) malloc(...);
    finalResults = results;

    while (...) { *results++ = some_val; }

    return finalResults;
}

...is that correct?

As I mentioned earlier, when I run these functions from C I have no
troubles...I can run them 5, 10, 15 times, etc.  From Python, using my
wrapper function is when I have trouble.

Thanks in advance.

Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> "Java and Swing" <codecraig at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > thanks for the tip, however even when I do not free aString or bString,
> > i'm still crashing at the malloc in the c function, not the wrapper.
>
> Do you have any more places where you use free incorrectly?  In my
> experience, calling free with invalid values can corrupt the data
> structures used by the memory allocator in such a way that subsequent
> malloc calls crash.
>
>    Bernhard
>
> --
> Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
> Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
> Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/



From martijn at gamecreators.nl  Tue Oct 11 06:01:18 2005
From: martijn at gamecreators.nl (martijn at gamecreators.nl)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 03:01:18 -0700
Subject: A faster shutil.rmtree or maybe a command.
In-Reply-To: <NYL2f.7235$Pe2.163614@twister2.libero.it>
References: <1129024138.029854.80350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<NYL2f.7235$Pe2.163614@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1129024878.060470.47370@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

A little.

I think its yust to big to handle it.
I'm going to ask it in a freebsd forum, maybe they know how to speed
up.

Thanks.



From stryder at telenet.invalid  Tue Oct 18 12:42:01 2005
From: stryder at telenet.invalid (Aragorn)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:42:01 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
	<8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com> <azGVDpHpvOIa092yn@visi.com>
Message-ID: <tB95f.26329$_54.1117312@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

On Tuesday 18 October 2005 05:32, Richard Steiner stood up and spoke the
following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.misc...:/

> Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
> John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> spake unto us, saying:
> 
>>Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
> 
>>> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
>>> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?
>>
>>Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.
> 
> MS-DOS 3.3 was the most popular DOS release back in 1987/1988.  I
> don't recall there ever being a 3.4 release, though.

There w?s indeed a version 3.4, but I don't know whether this was
MS-DOS.  IBM did have a PC-DOS 3.4 at one stage, where it offered the
purchaser of the PS/2 series computers the choice between DOS 3.4 and
DOS 4.00.

However, Peter was of course not talking of DOS. ;-)

-- 
With kind regards,

*Aragorn*
(Registered Gnu/Linux user #223157)


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct  5 19:39:55 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:39:55 -0000
Subject: Can't get pylibpcap extension to build under 2.4
Message-ID: <11k8p2btca5m7e1@corp.supernews.com>

I've been using the pylibpcap extension module for several
years, but I can't get it to build under 2.4:

   $ python setup.py build
   /usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py:222: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
     warnings.warn(msg)
   running build
   running build_ext
   building '_pcapmodule' extension
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "setup.py", line 187, in ?
       cmdclass = {'clean': pcapclean,
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/core.py", line 149, in setup
       dist.run_commands()
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 946, in run_commands
       self.run_command(cmd)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 966, in run_command
       cmd_obj.run()
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/command/build.py", line 112, in run
       self.run_command(cmd_name)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/cmd.py", line 333, in run_command
       self.distribution.run_command(command)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 966, in run_command
       cmd_obj.run()
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 279, in run
       self.build_extensions()
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 405, in build_extensions
       self.build_extension(ext)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 442, in build_extension
       sources = self.swig_sources(sources, ext)
   TypeError: swig_sources() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
   
After googling around I tried this:


   --- setup.py-old	2005-10-05 18:34:20.486133727 -0500
   +++ setup.py	2005-10-05 18:34:44.281584035 -0500
   @@ -68,21 +68,21 @@
    
      def before_swig_sources(self, sources):
          new_sources = [ ]
          for source in sources:
              if source == 'mk-constants.py':
                  self.make_file( (source,), 'constants.c', execfile, (source,) )
              else:
                  new_sources.append(source)
          return new_sources
        
   -  def swig_sources(self, sources):
   +  def swig_sources(self, sources, extension=None):
      
          """Walk the list of source files in 'sources', looking for SWIG
          interface (.i) files.  Run SWIG on all that are found, and
          return a modified 'sources' list with SWIG source files replaced
          by the generated C (or C++) files.
          """
    
          sources = self.before_swig_sources(sources)
      
          new_sources = []


I've never used SWIG, so I don't have any idea what's going on,
but it got a little bit further:

   $ python setup.py build
   /usr/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py:222: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license' warnings.warn(msg)
   running build
   running build_ext
   building '_pcapmodule' extension
   generating constants.c from mk-constants.py
   swig -python -shadow -ISWIG -o pcap.c pcap.i
   pcap.i:23: Error: Unable to find 'doc.i'
   error: command 'swig' failed with exit status 1

And the files I end up with are:

   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante  5336 Oct  5 18:36 constants.c
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante   395 Apr 23  2002 COPYING
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante  1100 Apr 28  2004 error.c
   drwxr-xr-x  2 grante grante  4096 Jul  3 18:32 examples/
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante   958 Apr 28  2004 exception.c
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante   118 Jul  3 18:17 MANIFEST.in
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante  2068 Jun  7  2004 mk-constants.py
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante 54542 Jul  3 18:11 pcap.c
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante  4671 Jul 10  2004 pcap.i
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante 14929 Jul  9  2004 pcap_interface.c
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante  6011 Jul  3 18:11 pcap.py
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante   346 Jul  3 18:32 PKG-INFO
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante  2379 Dec  3  2004 pypcap.h
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante  1744 Jul  3 18:29 README
   -rw-r--r--  1 grante grante   100 Jun 14  2002 setup.cfg
   -rwxr-xr-x  1 grante grante  6374 Oct  5 18:34 setup.py*
   -rwxr-xr-x  1 grante grante  6358 Oct  5 18:34 setup.py-old*

   
Anybody have a clue to spare?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want DUSTIN
                                  at               HOFFMAN!! ... I want
                               visi.com            LIBRACE!! YOW!!


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 05:54:55 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:54:55 +0200
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130055226.967456.266220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djfmli$kdm$1@sea.gmane.org>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

> >sure looks like four possible outcomes.<
>
> Right (but to me four explicit answers seem better than three answers
> and an exception still).

def cmp4(a, b):
    try:
        return cmp(a, b)
    except:
        return None

</F>





From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct  5 13:03:33 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:03:33 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <di110j$bc8$05$1@news.t-online.com>

marduk wrote:

> What I *really* want is to keep a collection of all the Spam instances,
> and if i try to create a new Spam instance with the same contructor
> parameters, then return the existing Spam instance.  I thought new-style
> classes would do it:
> 
> class Spam(object):
>     cache = {}
>     def __new__(cls, x):
>         if cls.cache.has_key(x):
>             return cls.cache[x]

On cache misses you implicitly return None. But your __init__() method will
only be called if __new__() returns a Spam instance.

>     def __init__(self, x):
>         self.x = x
>         self.cache[x] = self
> 
> a = Spam('foo')
> b = Spam('foo')
> 
> Well, in this case a and b are identical... to None!  I assume this is
> because the test in __new__ fails so it returns None, I need to then
> create a new Spam.. but how do I do that without calling __new__ again?
> I can't call __init__ because there's no self...
> 
> So what is the best/preferred way to do this?

class Spam(object):
    cache = {}
    def __new__(cls, x):
        try:
            inst = cls.cache[x]
            print "from cache"
        except KeyError:
            cls.cache[x] = inst = object.__new__(cls)
            print "new instance"
        return inst # always return a Spam instance

    def __init__(self, x):
        # put one-off initialization into __new__() because __init__()
        # will be called with instances from cache hits, too.
        print "init", x

a = Spam('foo')
b = Spam('foo')

print a, b, a is b

Peter



From nochiel at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 03:49:18 2005
From: nochiel at gmail.com (yoda)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 00:49:18 -0700
Subject: setuptools, ez_setup over http proxy
In-Reply-To: <1129262530.512786.169430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129252549.899651.327160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129262530.512786.169430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129276158.313427.325430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks guys,
Incidentally, I had already tried setting the env variable $http_proxy
but that didn't seem to work.

That being said, I'm moving this discussion to the distutils-SIG
mailing list while I carry out some tests.

Thanks again.



From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 31 07:03:11 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 10:03:11 -0200
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<87zmopnco7.fsf@linux.site>
	<Qon9f.25804$m%6.21030@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87u0exnbb4.fsf@linux.site>

Alex Hunsley <lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> writes:

> Btw, can you recall the subject line of the thread? I'd like to google groups
> for it and have a read of that thread...
> ta!

Search for: "alex martelli pychecker" on comp.lang.python...  I don't have the
thread's name anymore.  You'll probably find more than one thread with
that. :-)

-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Oct  5 11:25:26 2005
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:25:26 -0400
Subject: Does python support the expression "a = b | 1"???
In-Reply-To: <di0qq5$21i$2@news.net.uni-c.dk>
References: <di0qq5$21i$2@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <20051005152526.GA6482@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Wenhua Zhao]
> a = b | 1

> a = b if b != nil
> else a =1

> Is there such expression in python?

Hi.  Merely write:

   a = b or 1

In Python, there is no `nil'. `a' will receive 1 instead of the value of
`b' only if `b' is either zero, None, False, or empty in some way.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 17 18:05:35 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:05:35 -0700
Subject: Run process with timeout
References: <1129547240.998935.126970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kw2y.1r4xzk31tnakucN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2171.1129566392.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h4lkml.gx8kslqnnnflN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <donn-E08C31.15053517102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <1h4lkml.gx8kslqnnnflN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:

[... re problem killing children of shell script ...]

> > Is there any way to enable Python's subprocess module to do (implicit?)
> > group setup to ease killing of all children?  If not, is it a reasonable
> > RFE?
> 
> Not as far as I know.  It might be a reasonable request in suitable
> dialects of Unix-like OSes, though.  A setpgrp call (in the callback
> which you can request Popen to perform, after it forks and before it
> execs) might suffice... except that you can't rely on children process
> not to setpgrp's themselves, can you?!

I bet that wouldn't be a problem, though.  subprocess.Popen
constructor takes a preexec_fn parameter that looks like it
might be a suitable place to try this.  (Interesting that
it's a function parameter, not a method to be overridden by
a subclass.)

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Oct 23 07:40:07 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 04:40:07 -0700
Subject: System tray Icon
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2436.1130066700.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <c1967eb90510221528r59f620fexe606fef05b276192@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2436.1130066700.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130067607.213782.203360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Questo non e' sufficiente, ma puo' essere un punto di partenza:

http://www.pycode.com/modules/?id=2&tab=download

Bearophile



From bkhl at stp.lingfil.uu.se  Fri Oct 28 09:29:46 2005
From: bkhl at stp.lingfil.uu.se (=?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lindstr=C3=B6m?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:29:46 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>

"pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com" <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> writes:

> f = open("filename", "rb")
> s = f.read()
> sub = "\x00\x00\x01\x00"
> count = s.count(sub)
> print count

That's a lot of lines. This is a bit off topic, but I just can't stand
unnecessary local variables.

print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")

-- 
Bj?rn Lindstr?m <bkhl at stp.lingfil.uu.se>
Student of computational linguistics, Uppsala University, Sweden


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 14 02:01:40 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:01:40 +0200
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net><3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de><Xns96EE7E35E3D06duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<3r8c9qFhsj84U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <dinhk5$hcs$1@sea.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> I rarely find things in python strange or named incorrectly, but this is
> IMHO such a case - setdefault led me to think that using it would set a
> default value to return for _future_ lookups of non-existant keys. That
> semantics is known in e.g. ruby or java.
>
> I think a better name would be getdefault, or even get_setdefault - in
> oppposition to the get(key, d) form.
>
> But now that this became clear to me... I guess I can live with the name :)

as long as you pronounce it correctly (see my earlier post).

</F>





From mytsai at u.washington.edu  Fri Oct 14 12:11:51 2005
From: mytsai at u.washington.edu (Mingus Tsai)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:11:51 -0500
Subject: Help with cPickle for deserializing datetime.datetime instances
In-Reply-To: <dinmn3$akd$00$2@news.t-online.com>
References: <dinj0p$ot1$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<dinmn3$akd$00$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <diolc9$gsd$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Mingus Tsai wrote:
> 
> 
>>When these three statements run, the IDLE crashes!
> 
> 
> Is there a traceback that you can provide (cut and paste)?
> 
> Peter
>  
> 

It is a hard crash, so there is no traceback.  Instead, a dialog window 
pops up and gives the standard windows xp response to a program that has 
crashed.  I then click restart in the box and the IDLE does a restart 
and is back to normal, but no traceback...

cheers,
Ming


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 18 03:19:08 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:19:08 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
	<8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com> <azGVDpHpvOIa092yn@visi.com>
Message-ID: <c8ke23-9it.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc Richard Steiner <rsteiner at visi.com> wrote:
> Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
> John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> spake unto us, saying:

>>Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:

>>> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
>>> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?
>>
>>Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.

> MS-DOS 3.3 was the most popular DOS release back in 1987/1988.  I don't
> recall there ever being a 3.4 release, though.

We were talking sunOS. At least I was!

Peter


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 30 20:09:43 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:09:43 GMT
Subject: Controlling output using print with format string
References: <3sl7mnFordm3U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <43656928.1400496146@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:44:06 -0600, Paul Watson <pwatson at redlinepy.com> wrote:

>It is clear that just using 'print' with variable names is relatively 
>uncontrollable.  However, I thought that using a format string would 
>reign the problem in and give the desired output.
>
>Must I resort to sys.stdout.write() to control output?
>
Maybe. But I wouldn't say "uncontrollable" -- print is pretty predictable.

>$ python
>Python 2.4.1 (#1, Jul 19 2005, 14:16:43)
>[GCC 4.0.0 20050519 (Red Hat 4.0.0-8)] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> s = 'now is the time'
> >>> for c in s:
>...     print c,
>...
>n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e
> >>> for c in s:
>...     print "%c" % (c),
>...
>n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e
> >>> for c in s:
>...     print "%1c" % (c),
>...
>n o w   i s   t h e   t i m e

If you like C, you can make something pretty close to printf:

 >>> import sys
 >>> def printf(fmt, *args):
 ...     s = fmt%args
 ...     sys.stdout.write(s)
 ...     return len(s)
 ...
 >>> s = 'now is the time'
 >>> for c in s:
 ...     printf('%s', c)
 ...
 n1
 o1
 w1
  1
 i1
 s1
  1
 t1
 h1
 e1
  1
 t1
 i1
 m1
 e1

Oops, interactively you probably  want to do something other
than implicity print the printf return value ;-)

 >>> s = 'now is the time'
 >>> for c in s:
 ...     nc = printf('%s', c)
 ...
 now is the time>>>
 >>> for c in s:
 ...     nc = printf('%c', c)
 ...
 now is the time>>>
 >>> for c in s:
 ...     nc = printf('%1c', c)
 ...
 now is the time>>>
 
Just to show multiple args, you could pass all the characters
separately, but at once, e.g., (of course you need a format to match)

 >>> printf('%s'*len(s)+'\n', *s)
 now is the time
 16

 >>> printf('%s .. %s .. %s .. %s\n', *s.split())
 now .. is .. the .. time
 25

Or just don't return anything (None by default) from printf if you
just want to use it interactively. Whatever.

Your character-by-character output loop doesn't give much of a clue
to what obstacle you are really encountering ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Oct  6 07:50:28 2005
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:50:28 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
Message-ID: <43450F84.9090406@sweetapp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

 >> Right now, the compiler DOES NOT examine the contents of the other
 >> modules. All it does is generate an IMPORT_NAME instruction which is
 >> evaluation during runtime.
 >
 >
 >
 > In that case the other module gets compiled when the IMPORT_NAME
 > instruction is executed.


If compilation is required to complete the import (i.e. the module has 
not already been imported and the module does not already have a 
compiled byte-code file) then that is the same.

 > That says that compile time and runtime are
 > really the same thing in the current system.


I would say that they are separate systems but that the compilation 
system is available to the runtime (but not vise-versa). In any case, 
the important thing is that the operation of these systems has an impact 
on the optional declaration proposal being discussed.

The thing that I'm trying to understand is how the proponents of such a 
system would change Python to accomodate it. No one has been able to 
articulate that with any decree of specifity ("Just do what Perl does"). 
Also, these (poorly-defined) proposals have revealed a lack of 
understanding of Python's existing workings ("The compiler would examine 
the other module when it processes the import statement, just like it 
does now.").

Without a clear idea of the nature of the proposal, it is impossible to 
assess it's costs and benefits. So could a proponent of optional 
declarations please provide a more clear proposal?

Cheers,
Brian



From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Fri Oct 14 16:31:48 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 13:31:48 -0700
Subject: object inheritance and default values
In-Reply-To: <1129320301.22b6eac21f6406269fe235d5ba702f24@teranews>
References: <q7T3f.14417$ae.3253@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1129320301.22b6eac21f6406269fe235d5ba702f24@teranews>
Message-ID: <1129321908.160328.298730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


George Sakkis wrote:
> "Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to implement simple svg style colored complex objects in
> > tkinter and want to be able to inherit default values from other
> > previously defined objects.
> >
> > I want to something roughly similar to ...
> >
> >     class shape(object):
> >          def __init__(self, **kwds):
> >               # set a bunch of general defaults here.
> >               self.__dict__.update(kwds)
> > def draw(self, x=0, y=0, scale=1.0):
> >               # draw the object
> >
> >     hello = shape(text='hello')
> >     redhello = hello(color='red')
> >     largeredhello = redhello(size=100)
> >     largeredhiya = largeredhello(text='Hiya!')
> >     largeredhiya.draw(c, 20, 50)
> >
> >
> > I think this will need to require __new__ or some other way to do it.
> > But I'm not use how to get this kind of behavior.  Maybe the simplest
> > way is to call a method.
> >
> >     redhello = hello.makenew( color='red' )
>
> Just name it '__call__' instead of makenew and you have the syntax sugar you want:
>
>     def __call__(self, **kwds):
>         new = self.__class__(**self.__dict__)
>         new.__dict__.update(kwds)
>         return new
>
> Personally I would prefer an explicit method name, e.g. 'copy'; hiding the fact that 'shape' is a
> class while the rest are instances is likely to cause more trouble than it's worth.
>
> George

Symmetry can be achieved by making shape a factory function of Shape
objects while those Shape objects are factory functions of other Shape
objects by means of __call__:

def shape(**kwds):
    class Shape(object):
          def __init__(self,**kwds):
              self.__dict__.update(kwds)

          def __call__(self, **kwds):
              new = self.__class__(**self.__dict__)
              new.__dict__.update(kwds)
              return new

    return Shape(**kwds)

Kay



From patrick.down at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 13:27:59 2005
From: patrick.down at gmail.com (Patrick Down)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 10:27:59 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2014.1129223261.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7aoskvk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1129310879.470119.320680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> I haven't been keeping up with this stuff in recent years so I have a
> worse concern.  I don't know whether it's founded or not.  Basically
> in the past decade or so, memory has gotten 100x larger and cpu's have
> gotten 100x faster, but memory is less than 10x faster once you're out
> of the cpu cache.  The mark phase of mark/sweep tends to have a very
> random access pattern (at least for Lisp).  In the old days that
> wasn't so bad, since a random memory access took maybe a couple of cpu
> cycles, but today it takes hundreds of cycles.  So for applications
> that use a lot of memory, simple mark/sweep may be a much worse dog
> than it was in the Vax era, even if you don't mind the pauses.

You pay a price for CG one way or the other.  In Python the price is
spread out among a bunch of increment and decrement operations in the
code.  For mark and sweep the price is a big operation done less often.
 My understanding from reading about GC implementations is that
reference counting can exhibit poor cache performance because
decrementing a reference can lead to a chain of decrements on objects
that can be laid out in memory in a fairly random fashion.  Mark and
sweep can be a better cache performer since it's memory access will
tend to be more linear.



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 16 11:57:23 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:57:23 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>>
>>> Which standards? W3C doesn't make standards (they talk about working
>>> drafts and recommendations), so nothing to warp there for MS.
>>
>> Umm, a recommendation *is* a standard.
>
> No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they would
> call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it recommendations? Because
> it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML standard though, but when people
> babble about HTML standards they talk about W3C *recommendations*.

In that sense there are no standards in software.  The ISO C++ "standard" 
and the XML "recommendation" have the same amount of force behind them.




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 20:08:42 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:08:42 -0700
Subject: packaging a python project and associated graphics files
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.03.22.29.10.609593@presidency.com>
References: <pan.2005.10.03.22.29.10.609593@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <dhsh6b$rlr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> Hi, I've been trying to package a python project and I'm a little confused
> about how I distribute some PNG's that the program uses as icons.
> 
> Using distutils I can set the data_files argument of setup() and get my
> data files located in, say, /usr/local/mydata.
> 
> However when I write my code, it would seem that I have to hardcode the
> above path. But this would mean that while working on the code I would
> need to have it 'installed' on my system (or else actually make the above
> directory).
> 
> This seems a little unwieldy. How do people handle this situation?

I recommend packaging the files in the package itself. With Python 2.4,
you can make distutils do this with the package_data argument to
setup(). You can find your files by looking at the __file__ variable in
any of your modules.

Also, take a look at PythonEggs and pkg_resources.

http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PkgResources

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 06:36:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:36:18 +0200
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <djidf3$e9l$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Those two are easy. However, and this is where I show
> my hard-won ignorance, and admit that I don't see the
> problem with the property examples:

>>     class Base(object)
>>         def getFoo(self): ...
>>         def setFoo(self): ...
>>         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
>>
>>     class Derived(Base):
>>         def getFoo(self): ....

the property call in Base binds to the Base.getFoo and Base.setFoo method
*objects*, not the names, so overriding getFoo in Derived won't affect the foo
property.

to get proper dispatching for accessors, you need to add an extra layer:

            def getFoo(self): ...
            def setFoo(self, ...): ...
            def getFooDispatcher(self): self.getFoo() # use normal lookup
            def setFooDispatcher(self, ...): self.setFoo(...) # use normal lookup
            foo = property(getFooDispatcher, setFooDispatcher)

this gotcha is the motivation for this proposal:

    http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/72348

(see that thread for more on this topic)

</F> 





From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Oct 23 07:43:14 2005
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:43:14 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <435b76b5$0$38718$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> There were studies done in the 70s that showed that programmers
> produced the same number of debugged lines of code a day no matter
> what language they used. So a language that lets you build the same
> program with fewer lines of code will let you build the program in
> less time.

In my experience the LOC count is *far* less significant than the levels 
of indirections.

Eg. how many levels of abstraction do I have to understand to follow a 
traceback, or to understand what a method relly does in a complex system.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:45:14 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 00:45:14 -0700
Subject: users of pycurl here?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1704.1128701123.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128698989.351313.90070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1704.1128701123.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128930314.392590.99450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The Effbot wrote:
> here's a robust parser for various LIST output formats:
>
>    http://cr.yp.to/ftpparse.html
>
> (google for "ftpparse" to find python bindings for that module)

Well, I have downloaded the one from your site (ftpparse-1.1-20021124)
and I have given a python setup.py install. Now I have a _ftpparse.so
which exposes a single function 'parse'. However both the module and
the function do not have any docstring,  the underscore makes me
believe that there should be a ftpparse.py file which is missing,
and the README says "for a usage example, see the sanity.py test
script" but there is not such a script in the distribution :-(

               Michele Simionato



From christoph.soellner at web.de  Tue Oct 18 07:20:35 2005
From: christoph.soellner at web.de (Christoph Söllner)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:20:35 +0200
Subject: html parser?
References: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<mailman.2212.1129632708.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dj2lq0$s27$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>

right, that's what I was looking for. Thanks very much. 




From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 29 04:17:06 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:17:06 +0200
Subject: Automatic binding of  **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djvb4b$1ga$03$1@news.t-online.com>

lbolognini at gmail.com wrote:

> I have a very long list of parameters coming from a web form to my
> method foo(self, **kwargs)
> 
> I would like to avoid manually binding the variables to the values
> coming through the **kwargs dictionary, just to keep the code cleaner,
> I'd like to bind them automatically

Why don't you just change the method signature to foo(self, x, y, z,
whatever, **kwargs)?

Peter



From chris.lasher at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 10:16:11 2005
From: chris.lasher at gmail.com (Chris Lasher)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 07:16:11 -0700
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your responses, guys. I can't get the PIDA page to come up
for me; server timeout error. I'll have to look into Eclipse more, but
I've been warned that it's resource greedy and that the VI plugin
doesn't provide very much functionality. Still, that's hearsay, so I'll
have to find out for myself.

I would have figured Vim or VI editing behavior would be a lot more
prevalent in IDEs but it seems to be quite rare. I don't understand
that, because a lot of people seem to use IDEs, and a lot of people
seem to use VI/Vim or Emacs. Is it the young guns that are tied to the
IDEs, never knowing powerful text-editors exist, and old dogs sticking
to their favorite editors, not giving in to all those "distracting"
bells and whistles of IDEs? What's the deal? A marriage of the two
would seem like the best of both worlds.

Chris



From http  Tue Oct  4 19:10:07 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 16:10:07 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128467011.312.15.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <7xll18hoa8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

marduk <usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org> writes:
> def myfunc(MyClass myparam):
>    int spam = 6
>    str eggs
> 
>    # etc
> 
> i.e. typed declarations and type checking.  This would annoy the heck
> out of me. 

It could be like Lisp, which has optional type declarations.  If you
use the type declarations, the compiler can enforce them through
either static analysis or runtime checks, or alternatively to runtime
checks it can generate optimized code that crashes if the data has the
wrong type at runtime.  If you don't use the declarations, you get the
usual dynamically typed data.


From c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr  Mon Oct 10 04:36:28 2005
From: c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr (Peres)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:36:28 +0200
Subject: 2D graphics
Message-ID: <007201c5cd75$b5978140$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>

Dear Fredrik,
Thanks for your answer. yes it means animated on the screen.
I downloaded Python2.4, pygame and vision, but the animation is slow, and i cannot set a graphic priority to my program. Someone suggested PyopenGL.sourceforge, but it seems complicated.
Thanks again

Valerie
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From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Oct 10 15:04:36 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:04:36 GMT
Subject: rrdtool?
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.10.19.04.36.350250@dcs.nac.uci.edu>


What sort of rrdtool-related or rrdtool-like software is out there, in
python?

How does it compare to the many perl and/or php efforts?

I really prefer python, but I'm not seeing much in the way of python
software for this kind of thing just yet.  But hopefully, I just
overlooked it :)

Thanks!



From jhu at metrigenix.com  Fri Oct  7 16:11:59 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:11:59 -0400
Subject: PIL Image can't open png file with "I"?
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACBD@torexch.metrigenix.com>

Hi,

I have png file with mode "I", 16 bit,
And I tried to open it with im=Image.open("output.png"), im.show()
I got all white image.
Don't why?
Can Image only support 'RGB' or 'RGBA' png files?

Thanks 

James


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Oct 12 10:42:09 2005
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:42:09 +0200
Subject: C Extension - return an array of longs or pointer?
References: <1129117594.467541.164640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129121392_1305@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<1129121939_1307@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <s9z3bn67q66.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>

Brandon K <prince_amir86 at yahoo.com> writes:

> 	long* result = 0;
[...]
> 	result = doNumberStuff(in,x);
> 	len = sizeof(result)/sizeof(long);

I don't think this will do what you appear to expect it to do.

  Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 29 14:18:09 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:18:09 +0200
Subject: Automatic binding of  **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djvb4b$1ga$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2701.1130606177.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dk0ebb$g6g$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

>> Why don't you just change the method signature to foo(self, x, y, z,
>> whatever, **kwargs)?

> Probably because values are then required for those arguments. Plus it's
> a lot of work to specify "a very long list", and the list will also need
> maintaining.
 
Note that I kept the **kwargs argument. He would only have to specify
variables that are actually used in foo(), and these need maintaining
anyway. As to optional arguments, you can provide default values. Checking
for those is easier and safer than using local variables that may not be
bound or accidentally refer to a global.

# e. g.
missing = object() # if None is a valid state of whatever
def foo(self, whatever=missing, **kwargs):
    if whatever is not missing:
        # use whatever

> I must, however, agree with Mike's advice: it's unwise to try and
> pollute a function's namespace with arbitrary variables. Some kind of
> bunch-like object would seem to be the most satisfactory way to go.  

Using a bunch doesn't remove the necessity of an existence-test either (for
optional attributes).

Peter




From ejensen at visi.com  Wed Oct 19 10:59:41 2005
From: ejensen at visi.com (Ed Jensen)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:59:41 -0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rlj78Fjsu7mU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2244.1129711847.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rmh1uFk236lU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <11lcnqt2c7jhmcc@corp.supernews.com>

Claudio Grondi <claudio.grondi at freenet.de> wrote:
> I haven't seen any really platform-independent software yet and I don't
> expect to see any in the future.
> It is simply not possible to have one, even if much progress was done lately
> in many areas in order to try to approach it as close as possible.

Java + Swing is probably as good as it gets when the goal is to write
platform independent software.


From usenet at DavidFilmer.com  Wed Oct 26 13:12:42 2005
From: usenet at DavidFilmer.com (usenet at DavidFilmer.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 10:12:42 -0700
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130346762.423463.43080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?

Sure. It's called "Cascading Style Sheets" (CSS), which is how these
sites have done it (as you can see if you "view source").  See articles
on SitePoint.com (and MANY others) for info. But this really has
nothing to do with Perl.



From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct  9 09:44:42 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:44:42 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote or quoted:

> Read my essay.
> http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html

FYI, this bit: 

``Like ICQ, someone cannot send you mail without your prior permission. 
  They can't send you mail because they don't have your public key to
  encrypt the mail.''

...is pretty confusing - because "public key" is a term with a technical
meaning in cryptography - and a public key really *is* public.

If you want to allow email only from a list of senders, then you use
a simple white list.  Cryptography is not needed or desirable if this
is the intended goal.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 11:41:48 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 08:41:48 -0700
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <3rf96uFjbfetU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3rf96uFjbfetU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129477308.337608.119880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

True. That is why I have now reverted back to use list whenever
possible. As while list can also be modified(say in a multi-thread
situation), at least if I don't do the update(coding policy, practice
or whatever), they are sort of "guaranteed".

I would only use generator as IO monad in Haskell, i.e. don't use it
unless I absolutely need to.

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>
> Its a question of protocol. A iterator only guarantes that you can fetch
> items from it until it is possibly exhausted. In the same way, a stream
> may only guarantee you that you can  read from it. If you need more, you
> have tgo use a different protocol. Lists are one that allows you to
> randomly access it. Files allow to seek, in addition to stream semantics.
>
> And given that python is an imperative language with side-effects, you
> don't know what sideeffects  a generator can cause - which makes a
> "rewind" or copy-semantics to make it work several time impossible (in
> the general case, that is). So it has to focus on what it _can_ guarantee.
>
> Haskell and other FP languages canwork differently here, as sideeffects
> are made excplicit using e.g. monads or other means - which allows for
> re-use of a generator-like construct. But there is no way to make this
> work in pythons paradigm.
> 
> Diez



From j.e.geach at durham.ac.uk  Fri Oct  7 13:04:13 2005
From: j.e.geach at durham.ac.uk (jeg)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 10:04:13 -0700
Subject: 2d array slicing problem
Message-ID: <1128704653.953332.218930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

dear all,

i'm an astronomer working with 2d images -- 2d numarrays. i have a
script which basically does some operations on some images, and one of
the first steps is to find a galaxy on an image (at, say, a known x,y
coord), and create a sub-image by slicing out part of the larger array
to create a more managable smaller one (e.g. 50x50 pixels from a
1000x1000 array).

i was running this fine under python 2.3.4, but due to the slowness of
my machine, moved to a speedy 64-bit linux box running version 2.4.2.
arrays were no longer being sliced in the correct way, for example:

B = A[3:7,6:10]

generates different Bs if i run an identical script on the same image
on the different machines.

note: we deal with FITS format images, which are read into numarrays
using the pyfits.py module. does anyone know any obvious reason this
should be happening? 

many thanks if you can help, 

jim



From kst-u at mib.org  Wed Oct 26 04:17:42 2005
From: kst-u at mib.org (Keith Thompson)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:17:42 GMT
Subject: a Haskell a Day
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lnr7a87kv2.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>

"Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> writes:
[snip]

                                  ___________________
                          /|  /|  |                  |
                          ||__||  |      Please do   |
                         /   O O\__         NOT      |
                        /          \     feed the    |
                       /      \     \     trolls     |
                      /   _    \     \ ______________|
                     /    |\____\     \     ||
                    /     | | | |\____/     ||
                   /       \|_|_|/   \    __||
                  /  /  \            |____| ||
                 /   |   | /|        |      --|
                 |   |   |//         |____  --|
          * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/
       *-- _--\ _ \     //           |
         /  _     \\ _ //   |        /
       *  /   \_ /- | -     |       |
         *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u at mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center             <*>  <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this.


From Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 31 14:31:33 2005
From: Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com (Mark E. Fenner)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:31:33 GMT
Subject: frozenset/subclassing/keyword args
Message-ID: <piu9f.10090$bD.7522@trndny01>

Hello all,

I was migrating some code from sets.ImmutableSet to frozenset and noticed
the following:

******code********
#!/usr/bin/env python

from sets import ImmutableSet


class MSet1(ImmutableSet):
    def __init__(self, iterArg, myName="foo"):
        ImmutableSet.__init__(self, iterArg)
        self.name = myName

        
class MSet2(frozenset):
    def __init__(self, iterArg, myName="foo"):
        frozenset.__init__(self, iterArg)
        self.name = myName


m1 = MSet1([1,2,3], myName = "donkey")
print m1
print m1.name

m2 = MSet2([1,2,3], myName = "kong")
print m2
print m2.name
*********end code**********

*********run**********
MSet1([1, 2, 3])
donkey
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./setTest.py", line 22, in ?
    m2 = MSet2([1,2,3], myName = "kong")
TypeError: frozenset() does not take keyword arguments
*********end run********

I'm missing something and couldn't find it in the docs.

Speaking of which, in the docs at the bottom of the description of the
builtin set/frozenset, there is a link to a page describing differences
between the builtin sets and the sets module sets.  This link is broken
locally and on the python.org docs.
Locally, it reads:
file:///usr/share/doc/python-docs-2.4.2/html/lib/module-comparison-to-builtin-set.html

While it should read:
file:///usr/share/doc/python-docs-2.4.2/html/lib/comparison-to-builtin-set.html

Regards,
Mark


From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Mon Oct 10 09:46:32 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:46:32 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<85hhk1d9ife3gvk6co97ra03u4hah7o8i8@4ax.com>
	<Xns96EAEEC1B9C8Bcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <Ygu2f.976$U9.778@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
 
>> On 8 Oct 2005 23:39:27 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote or
>> quoted :

>>>Yeah, yeah, and 640K is enough for everybody. Same song, different tune.

>> For how long.  Surely attachments are a stop gap. Can you imagine
>> people sharing images that way 100 years from now?
 
> No, but I agree with you :-) I am not using HTML myself in email, but I 
> will when it makes things easier.
 
>> Why should we wait for the future?  The problems blocking easy to use
>> photo sharing are not technological but social.
 
> Yup, agreed. Like I already wrote, if I route all HTML email to /dev/null 
> I'll lose some customers, and some friends :-)

What I find is that when I see emails which are obviously spam, I
simply do not read them and delete them immediately. But then I
use Pine rather than a web browser... and while some forms of HTML
may be rendered, nothing is automatically pulled down.

Axel

 


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 13 07:24:05 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 11:24:05 GMT
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
	<3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns96EE7E35E3D06duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> So if setdefault
> was implemented as
> 
> def setdefault(self, v):
>      self["SOME_DEFAULT_KEY_NAME"] = v

if setdefault was implemented that way then all current uses of setdefault 
would throw an exception.

setdefault takes *three* parameters: self, key, value. Once you include the 
key parameter your entire argument implodes.


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Sun Oct 16 02:58:07 2005
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:58:07 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl3ufv.481.tim@vegeta.saiyix>

Jeroen Wenting <jwenting> wrote:
> Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
> If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and
> there'd be no other software manufacturers at all.

Interesting.  Standard Oil only had about 2/3 of the oil
refining market when they were split up.  And Microsoft has
a fair bit more of the home computer market than that.

The fact is, while Microsoft is not the only firm in the market,
and are not a "pure monopoly", they are a de facto monopoly, and
have been found on multiple occasions to violate many of the
same practices which Standard Oil performed and caused to become
illegal.

Microsoft is a monopoly, as defined by US Antitrust Law.  And as
they've been found similarly guilty by other governing bodies,
it doesn't seem to be a purely American deduction.

I won't deny that Microsoft has done possibly more than any
other single entity to further the mass adoption of public
computer use.  I also won't deny that they used a combination of
good products and good business tactics to get to the top of the
industry.  I also can't in good conscience call them "evil".

I will, however, say that they have engaged in immoral[*],
unethical, and illegal practices to artificially maintain and
augment their position in the industry and has not yet provided
products/services to back it up.

[*] Yeah, I know. What place do morals have in the business
    world.  I'm an idealist. Sue me.

Cheers,
Tim Hammerquist


From deets at web.de  Mon Oct 10 09:32:31 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 06:32:31 -0700
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <434941f6$0$458$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43490d16$0$6485$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<3qsi6lFgk1ndU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<434941f6$0$458$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <1128951151.324899.117850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Daniel Delay wrote:
> I agree the comparison to the mathematical o-operator is misleading, it
> was just to say sometimes, it can be usefull introduce new syntax to
> avoid too many nested parenthesis

To replace them by the same amount of parentheses with a dot in front?
Not very convincing.

> This is usefull when you need to compose few already defined functions,
> but I more often have to compose few expressions, which is the goal of
> my proposition.

The only reason this _could_ be preferable was in a situation where one
large expression contains several subexpressions that are supposed to
be the same value. Like this:

foo.join(bar.split()+ bar.split())

Then your prosal would make it

bar.split().(foo.join(? + ?))

But then again, this is by no means better to read. The only
justification is that you want to avoid the possibly costly double
evaluation of the common subexpression. But then, the critic of e.g.
Frederik applies: Why don't you do

a = bar.split()
foo.join(a + a)

Beats everything else in readability.

> In fact it has nothing to do with magical expression : "this" will
> represent the value of the current expression you work on, in the same
> way "self" represent the value of the object you work on.

I very well understand that. But I think the only thing it leads to is
more convoluted code. Which one wants to avoid.
Diez



From rcramsdell at gldd.com  Thu Oct 13 09:47:24 2005
From: rcramsdell at gldd.com (rcramsdell at gldd.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:47:24 -0700
Subject: Adding methods to an object
In-Reply-To: <1129208780.605763.218110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129208780.605763.218110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129211244.382410.305410@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

gabriele,

This works (A, Test, and o as defined by you):

>>> a=A()
>>> o.do(a, 10)
10

Your problem is that do() really has two parameters, an A instance and
whatever you want to print.

Why not do this:

>>> def newdo(m):
... 	print m
...
>>> newdo(10)
10
>>> o=Test()
>>> o.newdo = newdo
>>> o.newdo(10)
10

Robert



From steve.horsley at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 08:20:16 2005
From: steve.horsley at gmail.com (Steve Horsley)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:20:16 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1760.1128786020.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>	<di8hdm$6ru$1@news.freedom2surf.net>
	<mailman.1760.1128786020.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dib1li$1ve$1@news.freedom2surf.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Steve Horsley wrote:
> [...]
>>
>> The one that always makes me grit my teeth is "You have got to, don't 
>> you?". Well no, I do NOT got to, actually. Shudder!
>>
> Shouldn't that be "I don't have to got to"?
> 
> regards
>  Steve

Yes it should.


From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 14 02:42:20 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 23:42:20 -0700
Subject: A problem while using urllib
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>
	<434CCFDE.7000409__24352.7919905775$1129107859$gmane$org@holdenweb.com>
	<87r7apknym.fsf@pobox.com>
	<mailman.2048.1129263948.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129272140.949926.81080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Steve Holden ???
> Good catch, John, I suspect this is a possibility so I've added the
> following note:
>
> """The Windows 2.4.1 build doesn't show this error, but the Cygwin 2.4.1
> build does still have uncollectable objects after a urllib2.urlopen(),
> so there may be a platform dependency here. No 2.4.2 on Cygwin yet, so
> nothing conclusive as lsof isn't available."""
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/

Maybe it's really a problem of platform dependency. Take a look at this
brief example, (not using urllib, but just want to show the platform
dependency of python):

Here is the snapshot from dos:
-----------------------
D:\>python
ActivePython 2.4.1 Build 247 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.4.1 (#65, Jun 20 2005, 17:01:55) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> f = open("t", "r")
>>> f.tell()
0L
>>> f.readline()
'http://cn.realestate.yahoo.com\n'
>>> f.tell()
28L

--------------------------

Here is the a snapshot from cygwin:
---------------------------
Johnny Lee at esmcn-johnny /cygdrive/d
$ python
Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 27 2005, 18:02:40)
[GCC 3.3.3 (cygwin special)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> f = open("t", "r")
>>> f.tell()
0L
>>> f.readline()
'http://cn.realestate.yahoo.com\n'
>>> f.tell()
31L

--------------------------------



From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct 15 18:22:14 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:22:14 GMT
Subject: tkinter drawing
Message-ID: <qif4f.190487$p_1.173213@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>


I want to be able to easily create reusable shapes in Tkinter and be 
able to use them in mid level dialogs.  So after some experimenting I've 
managed to get something to work.

The following does pretty much what I need, but I think it can be 
improved on. So could anyone take a look and let me know what you think?

Some of the things I want to add, but aren't exactly sure how at this time:
    Nested groups
    Use tags to be able to change sub items later
    Have items get attribues from the group if it doesn't have them

Hope this isn't too long.

Cheers, Ron



"""
Tkinter Color Vector Objects

Just the bare minimum to create re-sizable
and re-usable color icons in tkinter.
"""

import Tkinter as Tk
import math

def getregpoly(sides):
     """ Get points for a unit regular-polygon with n sides. """
     points = []
     ang = 2*math.pi / sides
     for i in range(sides):
         deg = (i+.5)*ang
         points.append(math.sin(deg)/2.0+.5)
         points.append(math.cos(deg)/2.0+.5)
     return points

def scale(points, scale):
     return [x*scale for x in points]

def move(points, x, y):
     xy = [x,y]*(len(points)//2)
     return [xy+coord for xy, coord in zip(xy,points)]

def translate(obj, x, y, zoom):
     p = scale(obj.points, obj.size)
     p = move(p, obj.x, obj.y)
     p = scale(p, zoom)
     return move(p, x, y)

def draw(obj, c, x=0 ,y=0, zoom=1):
     p = translate(obj, x, y, zoom)
     if obj.obj=='line':
         c.create_line( p, fill=obj.fill, width=obj.width,
                        arrow=obj.arrow )
     elif obj.obj=='rectangle':
         c.create_line( p, fill=obj.fill, outline=obj.outline,
                        width=obj.width)
     elif obj.obj=='polygon':
         c.create_polygon( p, fill=obj.fill, outline=obj.outline,
                           width=obj.width, smooth=obj.smooth )
     elif obj.obj=='text':
         size = int(obj.size*zoom)
         font = (obj.font,size,obj.style)
         c.create_text(p, text=obj.text, font=font, fill=obj.fill)
     elif obj.obj=='oval':
         c.create_oval( p, fill=obj.fill, outline=obj.outline,
                        width=obj.width )
     elif obj.obj=='arc':
         c.create_arc( p, start=obj.start, extent=obj.extent,
                       style=obj.style, fill=obj.fill,
                       outline=obj.outline, width=obj.width )

class Shape(object):
     size = 1
     x = y = 0
     def __init__(self, **kwds):
         self.__dict__.update(kwds)
     def __call__(self, *args, **kwds):
         for key in self.__dict__:
             if key not in kwds:
                 kwds[key] = self.__dict__[key]
         return self.__class__(*args, **kwds)
     def draw(self, c, x=0, y=0, scale=1.0):
         draw(self, c, x, y, scale)

class Group(list):
     obj = 'group'
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
         self[:] = args
         self.__dict__.update(kwds)
     def __call__(self, *args, **kwds):
         args = self[:]+list(args)
         for key in self.__dict__:
             if key not in kwds:
                 # make copies
                 kwds[key] = self.__dict__[key]()
         return self.__class__(*args, **kwds)
     def draw(self, c, x=0, y=0, scale=1.0):
         for item in self:
             item.draw(c, x, y, scale)
         for key in self.__dict__:
             self.__dict__[key].draw(c, x, y, scale)

# base shapes.
text = Shape( obj='text', text='', fill='black', width=0,
               font='', style='', points=[0,0] )
line = Shape( obj='line', arrow='none', fill='black',
               smooth='false', width=1, points=[0,0,1,0])
rectangle = Shape( obj='rectangle', fill='', outline='black',
                    width=1, points=[0,0,1,.5])
polygon = Shape( obj='polygon', fill='grey', outline='',
                  width=0, points=[0,0], smooth='false' )
oval = Shape( obj='oval', fill='grey', outline='',
               width=0, points=[0,0,1,.75] )
arc = Shape( obj='arc', fill='grey', outline='', width=0,
              style='arc', start='0', extent='90',
              points=[0,0,1,1])

# shape variations
chord = arc(style='chord')
pie = arc(style='pieslice')
circle = oval(points=[0,0,1,1])
square = rectangle(points=[0,0,1,1])
triangle = polygon( points=getregpoly(3))
octagon = polygon( points=getregpoly(8))

# CAUTION ICON
caution = Group(
     triangle(x=6, y=5, size=75),
     triangle(size=75, fill='yellow'),
     txt = text( text='!',
                 x=38, y=32, size=30,
                 font='times', style='bold') )

# ERROR ICON
circlepart = chord( x=15, y=15, size=25, fill='red',
                     start='140', extent='155' )
error = Group(
     octagon(x=6, y=5, size=56),
     octagon(size=56, fill='red'),
     circle(x=9, y=9, size=37, fill='white'),
     circlepart(),
     circlepart(start='320') )

# QUESTION & INFO ICONS
bubbletip = polygon(points=[34,42,60,56,50,38])
question = Group(
     bubbletip(x=6, y=5),
     oval(x=6, y=5, size=60),
     bubbletip(fill='lightblue'),
     oval(size=60, fill='lightblue'),
     txt = text( text='?',
                 x=31, y=22, size=28,
                 font='times', style='bold' ) )
info = question()
info.txt.text = 'i'

if __name__ == '__main__':
     root = Tk.Tk()
     root.title('Resizable Shapes')
     c = Tk.Canvas(root)

     caution.draw(c,40,20,.5)
     error.draw(c,120,20,1)
     question.draw(c,210,20,2)
     info.draw(c,50,100)

     logo = caution()  # get a copy
     logo.txt = text( text='&', fill='#00bb44',
                        x=39, y=34, size=30 )
     logo.draw(c,135,110,1.3)

     message = text( text="What's Your Size?",
                     size=15, fill='white' )
     Group( message( x=1, y=1, fill='grey30'),
            message() ).draw(c,190,235,2)

     line( width=3, fill='darkgrey', arrow='both'
           ).draw(c,20,205,336)

     c.pack()
     root.mainloop()



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 24 05:23:58 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 09:23:58 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-21, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> It would be better if cmp would give an indication it
>> can't compare two objects instead of giving incorrect
>> and inconsistent results.
>
> If two objects aren't totally comparable, then using 'cmp' on them is 
> ill-defined to begin with.

Where is that documented?

> The Standard Thing To Do is throw an 
> exception; see the Highly Obscure Case of the Complex Numbers.
>
> >>>1 == 1j
> False
> >>>1 != 1j
> True
> >>>1 < 1j
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=

I would say this is the wrong answer. The right answer should
be False IMO.

Especially in the following case do I think the TypeError is
the wrong answer:

>>> 3 + 0j < 2 + 0j
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
>>> 

Look at sets:

>>> set([1]) <=  set([2])
False
>>> set([2]) <= set([1])
False
>>> 


> >>>cmp(1j,1j)
> 0
> >>>cmp(1,1j)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
>
> So using the well-known case of complex numbers, the semantics are 
> already well-defined.

I think one can argue against this, but I'm willing to leave this
as it is for complex numbers. But I think the situation with sets
should be trated differently than currently.

> >>> class Incomparable:
> ...     def __cmp__(self,other):
> ...             raise TypeError("cannot compare Incomparables using <, 
><=, >, >=")
> ...     def __eq__(self,other):
> ...             return self is other
> ...     def __neq__(self,other):
> ...             return self is not other
> >>> a1 = Incomparable()
> >>> a2 = Incomparable()
> >>> a1 == a1
> 1 # I'm running on python 2.2.3 at the moment, so hence the 1.
> >>> a2 == a2
> 1
> >>> a1 == a2
> 0
> >>> a1 < a2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
> TypeError: cannot compare Incomparables using <, <=, >, >=
> >>> cmp(a1,a2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
> TypeError: cannot compare Incomparables using <, <=, >, >=
>
>
> So your use-case is already well-defined, and rather simple.  Make 
> __cmp__ raise an exception of your choice,

That is not well defined. It doesn't allow to distinghuish between
something went wrong in __cmp__ and and answer that indicates the
only usefull thing you can say is that they are unequal.

Besides I find the following result inconsistent:

>>> set([1]) <= set([1,2])
True
>>> cmp(set([1]), set([1,2]))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: cannot compare sets using cmp()

The first set is smaller than the second so acoording to the
documentation, I should get a negative number as a result.

> and define rich comparators 
> only for the comparisons that are supported.  If, as you say in another 
> post, "some" pairs in D cross D are comparable on an operator but not 
> all of them (and further that this graph is not transitive),

I was talking about partial orders, partial orders are transitive
and python still doesn't handle them right.

> then your 
> _ONLY_ choices, no matter your implementation, is to return some 
> possibly inconsistent result (a < b == 1, b < c == 1, a < c == 0) or 
> raise an exception for unapplicable comparisons.
>
> This isn't a Python problem; this is a problem from formal mathematics.

I think it is python's problem if python gives the wrong results.

when a < b then cmp(a,b) should give a negative number as a result.
Python sometimes does not!

when not a < b then cmp(a,b) should not give a negative number as
a result. Python sometimes does!

I think those are python problems.

> Personally, I'd favor the "raise an exception" case, which is exactly 
> what will happen if you define rich comparisons and let cmp throw an 
> exception.

But I don't want cmp to raise an exception when the two elements are
comparable.

That cmp(set([1]), set([2])) would raise an exception, I can understand,
although I would prefer it returned None, but why should
cmp(set([1]), set([1,2])) raise an exception. There is a perfectly
well defined answer for this.

> Operators that assume comparable objects, like sort, also 
> almost always assume a total order -- inconsistent operations can give 
> weird results, while throwing an exception will at least (usually) give 
> some sort of error that can be caught.

No it wont. the sort method will happily sort a list of sets.

>>> lst
[set([1]), set([2])]
>>> lst.sort()

I agree that it would have been better if an exception had been in
raised in the sort method here.

> Another poster mentioned the B-tree example, and that isn't solvable in 
> this case -- B-trees assume a total order, but by their nature aren't 
> explicit about checking for it; inserting a "partial plus exception" 
> order might result in tree failure at weird times.  An inconsistent 
> order, however, is even worse -- it would corrupt the tree at the same 
> times.

Yes, and it is almost unavoidable now in python. There is no
documentation about handling these cases. So the most likely
scenario is that the person writing the partial ordered class
will use rich comparisons and leave it at that. In that case
using such a class in a tree will certainly result in a corrupt
tree. But even if __cmp__ raises an exceptions at the appropiate
time, that is no good if the implementation of the tree won't
be affected by it because it uses the comparasons operators instead
of the cmp function.

That is why I would suggest the following:

Define a new exception: UnequalException.

If two elements are just unequal whithout one being smaller
or greater than the other, this exception should be raised
by cmp and programmers can do so in __cmp__.

If __cmp__ is used to solve one of the comparisons, then
this exception should result in 'False' except for !=

If the rich comparisons are used to give a result for cmp(a,b)
then the following should happen. 

  test if a <= b
 
  if so test a == b to decide between a negative number
                    and zero

  if not test a > b to decide between a positive number
                    and raising an exception.

This would allow for people implementing tree's or sort
algorithms to detect when the data used is not appropiate
and throw an exception instead of giving meaningless results
or corrupt data structures.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 09:53:10 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:53:10 -0400
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<88e3c$4359d217$d8fea545$17293@PRIMUS.CA>
Message-ID: <6rsp23-s0t.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-22, William Park wrote:
> hagai26 at gmail.com <hagai26 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
>> in a str, like this:
>> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
>> I know I can use spilt and than join them
>> but I can also use regular expressions
>> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one
>
> I doubt you'll find faster than Sed.

   On the contrary; to change a string, almost anything will be faster
   than sed (except another external program).

   If you are in a POSIX shell, parameter expansion will be a lot
   faster.

   In a python program, one of the solutions already posted will be
   much faster.

-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct 11 09:13:50 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 06:13:50 -0700
Subject: REMINDER: BayPIGgies: October 13, 7:30pm (IronPort)
Message-ID: <20051011131350.GA9087@panix.com>

The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs, October 13 at 7:30pm at
IronPort.

Tim Thompson will describe and demonstrate the interaction between
Burning Man and Python using two applications, Radio Free Quasar and
Ergo.

BayPIGgies meetings alternate between IronPort (San Bruno, California)
and Google (Mountain View, California).  For more information and
directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/


Before the meeting, we sometimes meet at 6pm for dinner.  Discussion of
dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  

Advance notice:  We've got some options on the plate for November 10 but
haven't settled anything yet.  Please send e-mail to
baypiggies at baypiggies.net if you want to suggest an agenda (or volunteer
to give a presentation).  The meeting agenda for December 8 has been set.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur."  --Red Adair


From gordonb.8p4v4 at burditt.org  Sat Oct 15 22:43:28 2005
From: gordonb.8p4v4 at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 02:43:28 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<Xns96F0C6A35F486castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <11l3fig34u2ln27@corp.supernews.com>

>>>But HTML is not the problem!
>> Right, it's what the HTML-interpreting engines might do that is
>> the problem.
>
>You mean the same problem as for example using a very long header in 
>your email to cause a buffer overflow? That is possible with plain 
>ASCII, and has been done.

Before worrying about the possible bugs in the implementations,
worry about security issues present in the *DESIGN*.  Email ought
to be usable to carry out a conversation *SAFELY* with some person out
to get you.  Thus features like this are dangerous (in the *design*,
not because they *might* hide a buffer-overflow exploit):

- Hyperlinks to anything *outside* the email in which the link
  resides ("web bugs").
- Javascript.
- Any ability to automatically generate hits on sender-specified
  servers when the email is read.
- Any kind of return-receipt mechanism that doesn't require initiation
  by the recipient.
- Any kind of return-receipt mechanism that indicates that the
  message got past the spam filter.

>>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>>>  
>>>HTML allows properly aligned table, diagrams, images, use of
>>>colour/fonts to encode speakers. emphasis, hyperlinks.

The trouble is, it allows way too much dangerous stuff.

>> All good stuff, but I don't like worrying about side effects when I
>> read email.
>
>Then you should ask people to print it out, and use snail mail. Exploits 
>in email programs are not happening since HTML was added to them.

Yes, they are.  Why do you think people put "web bugs" in email?
Because they work.

>>>I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
>>>only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.
>
						Gordon L. Burditt


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 09:03:04 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:03:04 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <9bj1m11k5l9h5pq2dt4evpp5a2qbsqgfsn@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    Right I understand that. You could have complied simply by only selling 
>computers with Windows preinstalled. In other words, you could have treated 
>this the same as a demand for franchise or exclusivity if you had wanted to.

It is obvious to everyone WHY MS did this, to maintain monopoly. But
ignore motive for a while and see what they actually did and exactly
how they intended to carry out he threat of destroying my business.
What they did is clearly criminal. The hard part is proving it. Like
any smart criminal who makes a threat, MS left no paper trail..

1. it was a threat to destroy a business -- e.g vandalise tens of
thousands of dollars of property.  For all practical purpose they
threatened to steal my business.  It would be roughly the same dollar
value as threatening to burn down a large house.

2. it was a threat to force me to commit a criminal act -- namely
extract money from people and hand it to Microsoft and give those
people nothing of value in return. That in principle is no different
from demanding I go out an night and rob people and give MS the
proceeds.  The selected victims were those who expressed a contempt
for MS products by refusing to buy or even have any need for them.

3. What MS did was theft, namely taking money from people and giving
them nothing of value in return against their will.

What if MS had simply made the threat without being specific about how
they were going to carry it off? Would you consider MS so innocent
then?

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 09:35:12 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:35:12 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
References: <mailman.2591.1130331463.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlv1ce.g3n.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Tim Golden enlightened us with:
> Well yes. I think the (only slightly) wider point I was making was
> that -- despite goodwill and several attempts on my part -- Linux
> still has not overpowered me with its usefulness.

I have yet to see any OS that overpowers me with its usefulness.

> Extending from this, where I am someone who's a competent computer
> user (indeed, a professional software developer of some years'
> standing) and who has honestly tried, it seems that switching to
> Linux is not quite such a no-brainer as people sometimes make out.

I think it's harder to switch for professional computer users than it
is for relative laymen. After all, you have to give up a lot of things
you've accumulated over the years. A newbie can just sit behind the
computer and click some icons, and will be happy when things work
properly.

> Just occasionally you read posts from people who say (synthesised)
> "The Windows command line is rubbish",

It is. Let me give an example. I have the following files:

SomeFileA.txt
SomeFileB.txt
SomeFileC.txt
.SomeFileA.txt.swp

That last one is a swap file created by VIM, because I'm editing
SomeFileA.txt. Now, if I want to use the TAB key to get filename
completion, and I type "Som<TAB>", the first "match" it finds is
".SomeFileA.txt.swp". What is that? I don't want a file starting with
".Som", I want a file starting with "Som".

There is also no proper terminal support in the "DOS" box, you can't
resize it horizontally, and the TAB key can only do dubm filename
completion (no smart option completion like only completing with
directory names after a "cd" command)

> "Windows crashes all the time"

Fortunately, no longer true. It is true that a problem in one program
has a bigger influence on your desktop as a whole in Windows that it
has in Linux, though, so the effect of a badly behaving program is
"felt" stronger.

> "All Windows machines are overrun with adware and generate spam
> willy-nilly".

Not all, indeed. There are _lots_ of Windows zombie machines, though.
Then again, when I was moving, I didn't pay enough attention to my
Linux box, was too late in patching a leak, and it started spamming
too.

> And you just wonder whether such people have actually *used* a
> properly set up Windows machine recently.

I have.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From cfriedl at bigpond.net.au  Fri Oct 21 09:40:49 2005
From: cfriedl at bigpond.net.au (bwaha)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:40:49 GMT
Subject: gnuplot stdout & python question
Message-ID: <Bd66f.24237$U51.9158@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

I've posted this question to comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot too but given that
this python group may also comprise a lot of gnuplot users, and is far more
active, I've posted this question here too. My apologies to those who read
this twice. I posted to cgag before I decided to post here with a more
meaningful subject.


Anyone had any success getting stdout from gnuplot on an ms windows system
(XP)? I'm trying to read mouse coordinates using python. This link shows a
basic mechanism implemented in python.

http://www.physik.tu-dresden.de/~baecker/python/gnuplot.html

It is similar to the gnuplot.py code which I understand is unidirectional
only ie. send commands to gnuplot via gnuplot stdin. My hope is that I can
implement the bidirectional interface in gnuplot.py and give it away to
whoever might find it useful. But first, I gotta get it working.

I can't seem to get anything back to a python shell by this method. Hangs in
the function thats supposed to read stdout. Could be something I'm doing
wrong with python but I rather suspect there is something in the way gnuplot
on windows deals with stdout that I'm not understanding.

btw - I'm using gnuplot 4.1 (Oct 10 cvs build), python 2.3

bwaha




From striker at trip.net  Thu Oct  6 14:47:17 2005
From: striker at trip.net (striker)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 11:47:17 -0700
Subject: IDLE won't run on WinXP
Message-ID: <1128624437.567189.241140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I just downloaded and installed Python 2.4.2 on a Windows XP machine.
Everything I have tried so far has worked except for IDLE.  Is there
some setting that I need to check?  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Kevin



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 23 08:34:41 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:34:41 -0400
Subject: C replacement for Queue module
In-Reply-To: <1129987022.064904.84510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<bfGdnTXGf-tbkcfeRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
	<1129987022.064904.84510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <iY2dnQ9KjoTVHsbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

Jason Lai wrote:
> As far as Queues go, the adding/popping is apparently done with deque
> which are implemented in C. The Queue class pretty much just provides
> blocking operations and is otherwise a very thin layer around deque. As
> far as primitives go, only threading.Lock is written in C and the
> others are pure Python, so they're not that fast, which might be a
> reason for Queue's slowness.

BTW, I didn't mean (or expect) that one could improve significantly on 
Queue's performance in general just by re-writing it.

I meant that if the OP took into account _his own unique situation_, he 
might see opportunities for improvement which Queue couldn't possibly 
provide, given that it's a general purpose tool.  If his own situation 
simply involves a massive number of discrete put/get operations which 
cannot be bundled in any fashion, rewriting the entire Queue in C just 
to avoid the Python method calls (which have high setup overhead) might 
be the only real option.

-Peter


From blahman  Sun Oct 30 08:55:02 2005
From: blahman (blah@blah.blah)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:55:02 -0600
Subject: Need Python Pro for Help!! Plzz
Message-ID: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>

Need python Pro at newtopython at googlegroups.com , if u wanna help, plz 
reply to that address. We are python beginners. need a real good 
Python Programmer for Help. TIA!!
-- 
 * Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Beta 7
 * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet


From cs at totallybogus.com.invalid  Sun Oct 16 09:15:33 2005
From: cs at totallybogus.com.invalid (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:15:33 -0500
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051014170644.1803.75237.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129316814_3173@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051015094021.2058.55430.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129385149_1570@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051015173304.1927.10195.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
Message-ID: <1129468533_3823@spool6-east.superfeed.net>



>> Is there an incantation I can add to the config file
>> that might render the cursor visible on a dark background ?

>
> It's a well known issue, I haven't found a way 
> to change the cursor color yet :-/
>
> I also posted an help request on the pygtk list, 
> but I had no useful replies.

  I use a few other GTK-based applications 
  and will begin looking there for cursor-related
  config options clues ....

  I'm confident that a solution to this problem
  will eventually be revealed ....


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Fri Oct  7 04:08:18 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:08:18 GMT
Subject: Python, alligator kill each other
In-Reply-To: <1128635767.068104.232190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128635767.068104.232190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <S1q1f.15326$7U1.747549@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

infidel wrote:
> By Denise Kalette
> Associated Press
> 
> MIAMI - The alligator has some foreign competition at the top of the
> Everglades food chain, and the results of the struggle are horror-movie
> messy.
> 
> A 13-foot Burmese python recently burst after it apparently tried to
> swallow a live 6-foot alligator whole, authorities said.
> 
> ...
> 
> ... It is unknown how many pythons are competing with the thousands of
> alligators in the Everglades, but at least 150 have been captured in
> the past two years ...

When I read the title 'Python vs. Alligator' on Slashdot, I thought it
was about some comparison between Python and an unknown-to-me
programming language Alligator.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From matt.walsh at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 16:11:06 2005
From: matt.walsh at gmail.com (MBW)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 13:11:06 -0700
Subject: Simple server/client application
Message-ID: <1130184666.541928.133350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

The following code is for a simple server/client asplication that
allows the user to toggle between serve and or client modes and
send/recieve a message however i am getting an Attribute error on my
entry widgets when I try and call get() to get the port and ip address
from those fields, I'm sure it's something simple I haven't grasped...

#START

from Tkinter import *
from socket import *
import sys

class mySCS:
    def __init__(self,root):
        self.root = root
        self.root.title("My Simple Client/Server           ")
        self.mode = "Server"
        self.create_widgets()

        self.root.mainloop()
        return None

    def create_widgets(self):
        self.portLbl = Label(self.root,text="Port
number:").grid(sticky=E)
        self.AddrLbl = Label(self.root,text="IP
Address:").grid(row=1,sticky=E)
        self.myPort =
Entry(self.root,relief=SUNKEN).grid(column=1,row=0,sticky=W)
        self.myAddress =
Entry(self.root,relief=SUNKEN).grid(row=1,column=1,sticky=W)
        self.SCSToggle =
Radiobutton(self.root,text="Server",value="Server",variable=self.mode).grid(row=2,column=0,sticky=W)
        self.SCSToggle =
Radiobutton(self.root,text="Client",value="Client",variable=self.mode).grid(row=2,column=1,sticky=W)
        self.messageLbl = Label(self.root,text="Message:").grid(row=4)
        self.myMessage = Text(self.root,height=6).grid(row=4,column=1)
        self.statusLbl = Label(self.root,text="Status:").grid(row=5)
        self.myStatus = Text(self.root,height=6).grid(row=5,column=1)
        self.myConnect =
Button(self.root,text='Run',command=self.connect).grid(row=6,
columnspan=2)
        return None

    def connect(self):
        Host = self.myAddress.get()
        Port = self.myPort.get()

        if self.mode == "Server":

            sockobj = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
            sockobj.bind((Host,Port))
            sockobj.listen(5)
            myStatus.insert("Waiting on Conncetion...\n")
            while 1:
                connection, address = sockobj.accept()
                myStatus.insert('Server connection by', address)
                while 1:
                    data = connection.recv(1024)
                    if not data: break
                    self.myStatus.insert('Data Recievced ' +str(data))
                    connection.send('Echo=>' + data)
                connection.close()

        if self.mode == "Client":

            message = myMessage.get()
            if len(sys.argv) > 1:
                Host =sys.argv[1]
            if len(sys.argv) > 2:
                message = sys.argv[2:]

            sockobj = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
            sockobj.connect((Host, Port))

            sockobj.send(message)
            data = sockobj.recv(1024)
            self.myStatus.insert('Client recived:', str(data))

            sockobj.close()
        return None

if __name__ == "__main__":
    root = Tk()
    myobj = mySCS(root)

#END

Error message:
Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python24\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\Matt\My
Documents\work\eclipse\workspace\PSI\View\mySCS.py", line 30, in
connect
    Host = self.myAddress.get()
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'get'



From matt.hammond at rd.bbc.co.uk  Tue Oct  4 08:17:01 2005
From: matt.hammond at rd.bbc.co.uk (Matt Hammond)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:17:01 +0100
Subject: What is executed when in a generator
References: <dhtq5k$62c$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <op.sx4e2nrfmko9fo@pcx194.rd.bbc.co.uk>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:48:03 +0100, Jerzy Karczmarczuk  
<karczma at info.unicaen.fr> wrote:

> before the yield, this doesn't get executed either. *EVERYTHING*
> from the beginning until the yield gets executed only upon s.next().
>
> Could you tell me please where can I read something in depth about the
> semantics of generators? I feel a bit lost.
> Thank you.

This is probably what you want:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/ref/yield.html

But you've basically got the idea anyway. I think the important thing is  
to think of the generator as a factory. When called, it returns you  
something you can iterate over by calling the next() method. Think of it  
almost like instantiation. In fact, you could write something functionally  
equivalent like this:

gl=0

class GeneratorLikeBehaviour:
   def __init__(self, x):
     self.state = 0
     self.x = x

   def next(self):
     global gl
     if self.state == 0:
       g1 = x
       self.state = 1
       return x
     else:
       raise StopIteration

s=gen(1)


Unless I've made a typo, you should get exactly the same behaviour.

The difference under the bonnet is that calling the generator has less  
overheads, as it is not a true function call - stack frames etc are not  
having to be set up fully. Instead they are (presumably) set aside between  
calls to s.next()

Hope this helps


Matt
-- 

| Matt Hammond
| R&D Engineer, BBC Research & Development, Tadworth, Surrey, UK.
| http://kamaelia.sf.net/
| http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  6 04:46:34 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 08:46:34 GMT
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1501.1128503368.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk7994.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1511.1128509874.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk9p3a.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-05, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> [...]
>> 
>> Anyway, I have searched the source of the test for all testing
>> with regards to < and after some browsing back and fore it seems
>> it all boils down to the following two tests.
>> 
>>    self.assert_(not {} < {})
>>    self.assert_(not {1: 2} < {1L: 2L})
>> 
>
> So there isn't much to do, then! That's good. Seems you can pretty much 
> choose your own ordering.

Yes, I must have misunderstood something because I thought there also
was the following test:

  self.assert_({} < {1: 2})

Which is what prompted this thread from me.

> It would seem sensible to test a third case, namely
>
>      self.assert_(not {1L: 2L} < {1: 2})

I also though about adding the following test.

  dlst = range(20)
  for i in xrange(20):
    dlst[i] = some_ramdom_dict()
  sort(dlst)
  for i in xrange(19):
    for j in xrange(i+1,20):
      self.assert_(dlst[i] < dlst[j])


This would test for the consistency of the order, so that if a < b
and b < c that we also have a < c.

What do you think?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Oct  7 09:02:22 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 06:02:22 -0700
Subject: BayPIGgies: October 13, 7:30pm (IronPort)
Message-ID: <20051007130222.GA14823@panix.com>

The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs, October 13 at 7:30pm at
IronPort.

Tim Thompson will describe and demonstrate the interaction between
Burning Man and Python using two applications, Radio Free Quasar and
Ergo.

BayPIGgies meetings alternate between IronPort (San Bruno, California)
and Google (Mountain View, California).  For more information and
directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/


Before the meeting, we sometimes meet at 6pm for dinner.  Discussion of
dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  

Advance notice:  We've got some options on the plate for November 10 but
haven't settled anything yet.  Please send e-mail to
baypiggies at baypiggies.net if you want to suggest an agenda (or volunteer
to give a presentation).  The meeting agenda for December 8 has been set.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Mon Oct 10 20:52:35 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:52:35 -0000
Subject: Wanted: Python module allowing direct access to raw sectors
	ofharddrives (MFT, boot sector, etc.) in MS Windows
References: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3r09niFh717sU1@individual.net>

Thank you Jeff very much for your quick reply.
It saved me really much time of digging in the wrong direction.

<jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in
news:<mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list at python.org>...
>> I took the advice from this web page:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q100027/
Ok, I had found this page myself during Googling, but I have missed just
to try to use the described way of addressing physical devices with file
opening in Python.
It works as expected with harddrives so you are right that you are getting
the MBR with the proposed code.

After some not always happy end adventures with Python
scripting I am impressed by the power of the concept behind
the language once again.

Claudio

>>(I don't know how this extends to floppies, and the 9x family of OSes
isn't
>>listed in "applies to", so this may not help your case)
>>Here, I open "physical drive 0" and see that the magic number indicates a
valid
>>boot record. I believe it is the MBR.
>>>>> f = open('\\\\.\\PhysicalDrive0', 'rb')
>>>>> f.read(512)[-2:]
>>'U\xaa' # that is, hex 55 AA
>>I don't know much about low-level filesystem or partition details--I got
the
>>tidbit about the 55 AA magic number from
>>http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/pub/doc/suse/sles9/adminguide-sles9/ch08.ht
ml
>>Jeff
>><jepler at unpythonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list at python.org...




From case.nelson at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 16:34:19 2005
From: case.nelson at gmail.com (snoe)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 13:34:19 -0700
Subject: Function to execute only once
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129322058.901077.90680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I've been seeing alot about decorators and closures lately and my
initial thought was that this would be a good place to use them instead
of wrapping it around a class. That was my initial thought :) What I
came up with was this:
def execute_once(fn):
     result = None
     def executor(*args, **kwargs):
         if not result:
            result = fn(*args, **kwargs)
         return result
     return executor

@execute_once
def execute(tmp):
    tmp = tmp+1
    return tmp

def func1(tmp):
    execute(tmp)

def func2(tmp):
    execute(tmp)

tmp=0
print 'init tmp:', tmp
func1(tmp)
print 'ran func1 tmp:', tmp
func2(tmp)
print 'ran func2 tmp:', tmp

It gives the following error:
init tmp: 0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Download\test.py", line 26, in ?
    func1(tmp)
  File "C:\Download\test.py", line 19, in func1
    execute(tmp)
  File "C:\Download\test.py", line 5, in executor
    if not result:
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment

Makes sense to me, except I expected some closure 'magic'. I thought
that when I wrapped executor() inside execute_once() the name result
would be available to executor(). What am I missing here (I expect the
answer to be 'alot') but is this type of solution valid for this
problem?



From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Mon Oct  3 11:04:06 2005
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 16:04:06 +0100 (BST)
Subject: how to send a SIGINT to a Python process?
References: <1128146541.001784.85350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Umz*zif0q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:
>Is there a way to send a SIGINT/KeyboardInterrupt to a
>Python process (knowing the pid) that works both on Unix and Windows?

No. Windows doesn't support the sending of signals between processes
(with the exception of an equivalent of SIGKILL). I guess this explains
why server processes running on Windows need to be shutdown and
restarted (at least) if you change their configuration -- there's no
(convenient or standardised) way of doing the equivalent of SIGHUP.

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From viktor.marohnic at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:47:06 2005
From: viktor.marohnic at gmail.com (Viktor Marohnic)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:47:06 -0700
Subject: overiding assignment in module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2538.1130242428.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130241362.081637.105410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2538.1130242428.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130244426.210680.249660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Ok thanks a lot. I think i got the point.
I also thought that it could be possible to do something like this
globals().__setitem__ = custom_setter
but __setitem__ is readonly



From superprad at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 15:54:46 2005
From: superprad at gmail.com (PyPK)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 12:54:46 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
Message-ID: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What possible tricky areas/questions could be asked in Python based
Technical Interviews?



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 05:01:24 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:01:24 +0200
Subject: 2 class with same name in different module
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4B@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
	<di012g$9u9$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <di04p6$kku$1@sea.gmane.org>

> thats a syntax error; I assume you meant

message = message.replace(
    "a syntax error",
    "almost always an import error (no module named py)"
)





From amichail at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 20:59:21 2005
From: amichail at gmail.com (Amir  Michail)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 17:59:21 -0700
Subject: deleting a parameter's name as it is passed to a function
References: <1129336848.353805.176360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfyr3mwr6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1129337961.450468.220780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Amir  Michail" <amichail at gmail.com> writes:
> > The idea is to garbage collect the object as soon as possible, and this
> > may be sooner than when dosomestuff returns.
>
> If it's a parameter to dosomestuff, then there's still a reference
> until dosomestuff returns.  Simply getting rid of the name only frees
> a dictionary entry.

But dosomestuff can get rid of its reference before it returns (perhaps
it has a lot more to do before it returns and so you would want to
garbage collect the parameter object as soon as possible).

Amir



From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sat Oct 15 17:11:57 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:11:57 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F0847955C35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<39u723-ldp.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F08C649FB60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<ig0823-bes.ln1@news.heiming.de>
Message-ID: <wge4f.7949$S43.1222137@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Michael Heiming" <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote in message 
news:ig0823-bes.ln1 at news.heiming.de...
> In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>:
>> Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:
>
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>:
>>>> Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The only thing positive about M$ entering the market, probably
>>>>> due to their ineffective programming style they pushed Intel into
>>>>> producing pretty fast while cheapo CPUs.
>>>
>>>> Amazing, I thought Xah Lee was the only one able to fit so much BS in
>>>> one sentence.
>>>
>>> You them to have a talent to piss-off people with just a single
>>> terse contribution. ;-)
>
>> Only if their contribution is utter BS and I point this out.
>
> Dunno what's so BS about the possibility that the wintel mafia
> works hand in hand, M$ introduces a new OS and Intel faster CPU.

Your presumption that poor coding has anything to do with CPU development is 
absurd. There may be times that M$ has to wait on faster chips before 
pushing new technologies or Intel has to wait on M$ before pushing new chips 
(like their 64bit chips that probably won't be get over-hyped until the next 
iteration of Winblows rolls around), but that's hardly evidence of the two 
working hand-in-hand.

> People need to use the first, luckily both come bundled with the
> latest PC people just need to buy right now. Iirc this is called
> marketing, you don't seem to have much clue about.
>

Er, that's not called marketing but a software/hardware bundle. Marketing 
would be the propaganda that tries to convince you that you need both. When 
you have no option that's not marketing but a monopoly, which sort of brings 
this all full-circle...

Matt 




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 25 16:37:06 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:37:06 -0500
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
In-Reply-To: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051025203706.GA21354@unpythonic.net>

I'm not sure why Tk behaves this way, but you can observe the same behavior
with a "wish" script.  It would seem that "break" skips any other scripts
associated with item tags, but still proceeds to bindings at the widget level.
Using a binding with "break" on the canvas itself may help you get the behavior
you want.

########################################################################
canvas .c -width 70 -height 70
set it [.c create text 20 20 -tags x -text example -anchor nw]
.c bind x <KeyPress> { puts "item binding"; break; }
bind .c <KeyPress> { puts "widget binding"; break }
bind . <KeyPress> { puts "toplevel binding"; break }

pack .c
focus .c
.c focus $it
########################################################################

Jeff
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From borell at nytimes.com  Mon Oct 17 10:44:10 2005
From: borell at nytimes.com (Frank Borell)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 07:44:10 -0700
Subject: win32api.FindFiles Win2003, problem with Short Name
In-Reply-To: <RMZ3f.18128$U51.13464@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <1129245942.185252.171220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<p%C3f.17259$U51.14445@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<1129315861.886705.116980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<RMZ3f.18128$U51.13464@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1129560250.458465.175810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Frank Borell:
> > On all three types of PC/Servers they are set to 0.
> >
> > For now I'll have to process this script on non 2003 servers?!?
>
>     What do you get if you call win32api.GetShortPathName on the long name?
>
>     Neil

Neil,

It seems I'm in a catch 22.

My initial issue was trying to rename/move files on a SAN that were
written from Mac's. While the easier messed up files names were easy to
convert and move, I quickly came across a few types that were not.
Files with spaces at the end seemed to only be solved with the
win32api.FindFiles(fullpath + '*').

The catch 22:
All other commands reported the path structure but the output could not
be used because Python/the system reported that it could not find the
file/path specified. (Including GetShortName).

Unfortunately I've been testing on an XP with all working fine, the
Win2003 simply does not show anything on the SAN for FindFiles(last
tuple).

It DOES show shortnames for other directories like 'c:/python24/lib'

Win2003 on ''c:/python24/lib'

Original Name | Short Name

aifc.py|
anydbm.py|
asynchat.py|
asyncore.py|
atexit.py|
atexit.pyc|
audiodev.py|
base64.py|
base64.pyc|
BaseHTTPServer.py|BASEHT~1.PY
Bastion.py|


WinXP on SAN:

Original Name | Short Name

^2aCOSBY SON PROFILE^2fNYT18|A^2ACOSB.1A7
Jimmy Carter|JIMMY_CF.86A
Allende's Last Day-jpgd.|ALLENDEC.9D3
archives 1959|ARCHIVE6.330
Barbara Jordan|BARBARAF.714
Bettmann-Mine 24.6mgs|BETTMAN7.D79
Bosley Crowther 16-095.jpg|BOSLEY_F.148
Calvin Klein.jpg|CALVIN_5.0B1
Carl Erskine Bkyln Dodger.jpg|CARL_ER8.683

Win2003 on SAN:

Original Name | Short Name

A^2aCOSBY SON PROFILE^2fNYT18|
Jimmy Carter|
Allende's Last Day-jpgd.|
archives 1959|
Barbara Jordan|
Bettmann-Mine 24.6mgs|
Bosley Crowther 16-095.jpg|
Calvin Klein.jpg|
Carl Erskine Bkyln Dodger.jpg|
Chess^2fConrad|
Coco Chanel portrait 18-940.jpg|
Coco Chanel1 18-940.jpg|


Frank



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sat Oct 15 01:55:10 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 05:55:10 GMT
Subject: Can module access global from __main__?
References: <digf7s$j3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<1129091588.810070.165280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-1FB8F7.01552115102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1129091588.810070.165280 at g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "Neal  Norwitz" <nnorwitz at gmail.com> wrote:

> Steve Holden wrote:
> > Neal Becker wrote:
> > >
> > > Still curious about the answer.  If I know that I am imported from 
> > > __main__,
> > > then I can do access X as sys.modules[__main__].X.  In general, I don't
> > > know how to determine who is importing me.
> > >
> > I don't think you can without huge amounts of introspection - it's even
> > worse than the "what's the name of this object" question that seems to
> > come up regularly.
> 
> import sys
> 
> frame = sys._getframe()
> caller = frame.f_back
> print 'Called from', caller.f_code.co_filename, caller.f_lineno
> # for more info, look into the traceback module
> 
> > A module can be imported from multiple modules, and
> > you only get to execute code on the first import.
> > Even then (on the first import) I am not sure how you could introspect
> > to find the answer you want.
> 
> You can install your own __import__() hook to catch all imports.
> 
> Just because you can do something, it doesn't follow that you should do
> it, especially in this case.  Unless you really, really need these
> tricks, they shouldn't be used.

Neal, I have a similar question (in that maybe I shouldn't do 
something), and you seem to know your way around modules, so I'll just 
butt in.  If this isn't OK I'll post as a new thread.

I have written a python module that uses some C functions.  I wrote the 
module in two parts, one python, one pyrex (C).  They need to share some 
globals.  (I use pyrex to handle ref counting.  I think I'm glad I did.)

At first they just sort of mutually imported each other, and it worked 
until I put tests in the python one and set it up to run them when it 
was __main__.  This reminded me that there are also other ways modules 
can be imported under different names, so I tried a different approach.

Now I'm just shoving references to the python module's globals into the 
pyrex module (first defining them in the pyrex module).  The pyrex 
module doesn't import the python module anymore.  This also works, even 
when the python module has a different name ("__main__").  I just feel 
dirty about it.

How does one normally make a module that uses some functions in C?  Will 
that approach work with pyrex?  With globals?
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 21:03:09 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:03:09 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4vt5l19at06p3aai8bm460d0ajvfkcnbqn@4ax.com>

On 16 Oct 2005 12:30:06 -0700, riplin at Azonic.co.nz wrote or quoted :

>The only reason that Linux/OpenOffice/GIMP/Apachee/MySQL/

The catch is there are SO many SQL engines, even if MS bought up MySQL
and PostGre SQL one of the others would just pop to the fore as the
new free standard bearer.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/sqlvendors.html

Here is a field where there is healthy competition.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From http  Thu Oct 13 16:21:30 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 13:21:30 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> writes:
> 1) Which plays best with Python? Ideally, it would already have some
> higher-level python libraries to hide the grotty stuff that is almost
> never needed when actually implementing apps.
> 
> 2) Reliability of each?
> 
> 3) Useful external libraries for each?
> 
> 4) Ease of installation/use on OS X?

The answer to each of those questions points to Tkinter.  It comes
with Python by default (the least installation hassles of any
toolkit), is pretty reliable, has a reasonably Pythonic interface, and
I don't understand the question about external libraries.

However, Tkinter not most people's favorite, because the widgets look
crude, they don't resemble the native widgets of any popular platform,
and the widget set is somewhat limited.

That suggests you're not asking the right questions.

I use Tkinter because the Python gui's I've built so far have been for
straightforward functionality purposes without being fancy.  However,
if I were doing something for wide distribution and wanted it to look
sharp, at this point I think I'd go for PyGtk despite the preference
of many for wxpython.  

Finally, don't overlook the possibility of embedding a basic web
server in your app, and having the user communicate with it through a
web browser.  That turns HTML into your gui, which is very easy to
program.  It also lets you easily handle remote clients, multiple
concurrent clients, etc, and gives users a familiar and intuitive
interface.


From mrosenstihl at macnews.de  Tue Oct 11 15:03:49 2005
From: mrosenstihl at macnews.de (Markus Rosenstihl)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:03:49 +0200
Subject: Learning Python
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <dih2ak$kq6$02$1@news.t-online.com>

On 2005-10-10 18:50:18 +0200, Paul DiRezze <pdirezze at rogers.com> said:

> I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at 
> learning how to program in Python.  Here's a list of the places I've 
> bookmarked:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/ and more specifically
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
> http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
> http://www.python.org/topics/
> 

I liked these to, and the Tutorila from python.org

http://www.byteofpython.info/

http://divintopython.org




From nil at dev.nul  Mon Oct 17 12:35:58 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:35:58 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dj0jtg$fj6$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Christian Stapfer <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>
>>  This is why we would like to have a way of (roughly)
>> estimating the reasonableness of the outlines of a
>> program's design in "armchair fashion" - i.e. without
>> having to write any code and/or test harness.
>
> And we would also like to consume vast amounts of chocolate, while
> similarly reclining in comfortable armchairs,

Maybe some of my inclination towards design
based on suitable *theories* (instead of
self-conditioning through testing) goes back
to the fact that I tend to think about the
design of my programs when no computer happens
to be near at hand to do some such experimenting,
or self-conditioning...

> without getting all fat and flabby.

Well, thinking can be hard work. There is no need
to suggest an image of laziness. Thought experiments
are also quite often successful. Hardware engineers
can design very often entire gadgets without doing
a great deal of testing. They usually need to resort
to testing only if they know (or feel?) not to have
a sufficiently clear *theoretical* grasp of the
behavior of some part of their design.

>  Unfortunately, what we would like and what reality affords
> are often pretty uncorrelated.  No matter how much theoreticians may
> love big-O because it's (relatively) easy to compute, it still has two
> failings which are often sufficient to rule out its sufficiency for any
> "estimate [of] the reasonableness" of anything: [a] as we operate on
> finite machines with finite wordsize, we may never be able reach
> anywhere even remotely close to the "asymptotic" region where big-O has
> some relationship to reality; [b] in many important cases, the
> theoretical worst-case is almost impossible to characterize and hardly
> ever reached in real life, so big-O is of no earthly use (and much
> harder to compute measures such as big-Theta should be used for just
> about any practical purpose).

But the fact remains that programmers, somewhat
experienced with the interface a module offers,
have a *rough*idea* of that computational complexity
attaches to what operations of that interface.
And having such a *rough*idea* helps them to
design reasonably performing programs much more
quickly.
  Big-Oh and other asymptotic complexity measures
really do have *this* advantage over having
acquired, by way of conditioning experiences,
some such *rough*idea* of computational complexity:
they capture at least some of that "rough idea"
in a somewhat more easily communicable and much
more precise fashion.

  Maybe you and Steven prefer to be conditioned,
Pavlov style, by the wonderful experiences that
you get while testing? - This is perhaps really
one of my *worst* psychological handicaps, I must
admit: that I don't *like* to get conditioned
like that, no matter how good it feels, no matter
how effective it might be for "practical" work that
one has to do.
  I want to be able to really think *about* what
I am doing. And in order to be able to think about
it one usually needs some information about the
implementation, performance wise, of the language
features and the system modules that one might
want to use. If you happen to know of any *better*
way of offering the requisite information than
asymptotic complexity measures then, of course,
I am very grateful to hear more about it.

> Consider, for example, point [b].  Quicksort's big-O is N squared,
> suggesting that quicksort's no better than bubblesort or the like.  But
> such a characterization is absurd.  A very naive Quicksort, picking its
> pivot very systematically (e.g., always the first item), may hit its
> worst case just as systematically and in cases of practical importance
> (e.g., already-sorted data); but it takes just a little extra care (in
> the pivot picking and a few side issues) to make the worst-case
> occurrences into ones that will not occur in practice except when the
> input data has been deliberately designed to damage by a clever and
> determined adversary.
>
> Designing based on worst-case occurrences hardly ever makes
> sense in any field of engineering,

What's wrong with wanting to have a rough idea
of what might happen in the worst case? I believe
many engineers are actually expected to think
about at least some "worst-case" scenarios.
Think of nuclear reactors, airplanes, or
telephone exchanges (and dont' think of Google
for a change). Don't you expect engineers
and scientists designing, for example, a nuclear
reactor, to think hard about what the worst-case
scenario might be? And how likely it might happen?
(And *no* testing whatsoever in that direction,
please!) Not thinking is, admittedly, a lot easier.

<snip/>

> Why bother doing
> (e.g.) random pivot selection in quicksort, when its big-O (i.e.,
> worst-case) behavior will remain N-squared, just like naive quicksort,
> or, for that matter, bubblesort?

Because worst-case is not the only measure of
computational complexity that one might be
interested in. For some applications one may
be able to accept relatively bad worst-case
behavior, if it doesn't happen too often.
This is why for these people we might provide
information about average case behavior (and
then the difference between quicksort and
bubblesort clearly shows).
  For others, such worst-case behavior may not
be acceptable. For those other applications,
a good worst-case may be what is required.
This is why this second category of programmers
needs to know about the worst-case. - But I am
certainly belaboring the obvious...

Of course, the programs that have been designed
on the basis of such information can (and ought
to be) tested. Then some surprises (*not* predicted
by theory) might happen: but if they do not happen
too often, theory has done a good job - and so has
the programmer...

Regards,
Christian




From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct  6 20:33:43 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-06, DaveM <asma61 at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>>Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full
>>monty" or "trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn
>>word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the
>>most part.
>
> Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that
> British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled,
> while first-generation Americans whose English is. um,
> limited, are not.

What?!?  I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of
the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a
nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting)
where the dialog was inaudible because of the music.

While we're off this topic again topic, I was watching a BBC
series "Space Race" the other night.  The British actors did a
passable job with the American accents in the scenes at Fort
Bliss in Texas, but the writers wrote British English lines for
them to speak in their American accents.

For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the
subject consists of more than one person.  Sports teams,
government departments, states, corporations etc. are 
grammatically plural.  In American, the verb agrees with the
word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by
that word.

In sports (thats "sport" for you Brits):

 American: Minnesota is behind 7-0.  The Vikings are behind 7-0.
  British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0.

In politics:

  American: The war department has decided to cancel the program.
   British: The war department have decided to cancel the program.

And so on...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I think I am an
                                  at               overnight sensation right
                               visi.com            now!!


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 13:28:26 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:28:26 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     I defy you to find any court that has ruled this practice
>> illegal for a company that does not have a monopoly. Because if they
>> did, I'm going after Doctor's Associates and Kenmore.

> Of course it's legal for non-monopoly companies.  You seem to think
> Microsoft's illegal monopoly is an irrelevant detail.  It is not.

    What is an "illegal monopoly"?

    DS




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 13:55:25 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:55:25 -0700
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
In-Reply-To: <dim5kv$2jl$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <dim5kv$2jl$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <dim72d$9ap$1@sea.gmane.org>

Neal Becker wrote:
> I can do this with a generator:
> 
>     def integers():
>         x = 1
>         while (True):
>             yield x
>             x += 1
> 
> for i in integers(): 
> 
> Is there a more elegant/concise way?

from itertools import count

for i in count():
    ...

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 28 05:19:42 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 02:19:42 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130491182.405885.49010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

"eric.pederson at gmail.com" wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Finally diving into XML programmatically.  Does anyone have a best
> practice recommendation for programmatically discovering the structure
> of an arbitrary XML document via Python?
>
> It seems like it is a common wheel I'd be re-inventing.
>
> Thanks and cheers


I was looking for something similar (XML to DTD inference) but I didn't
find anything related in python. Trang
(http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/trang-manual.html#introduction),
on the other hand seems impressive after a few non-trivial tests. It
would be neat to have it ported in python, at least the inference part.

George



From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Fri Oct  7 16:51:06 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:51:06 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<devbk1l6ql5ml0t24mbr5ubba0m01gsdn2@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1653.1128663118.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20051007225106.7ed7330c@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:30:00 -0700, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com>
wrote :

> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:12:22 +0200, Nicolas Pernetty
> > <nicopernetty at nowhere.fr> declaimed the following in
> > comp.lang.python:
> > 
> > > I'm aware of SimPy for discrete event simulation, but I haven't
> > > found any work about continuous system.
> > > I would like to develop a generic continous system simulator, and
> > > so would be eager to join any open source effort on the subject.
> > >
> > >For instance, it would be useful for modelling an airplane with all
> > > the dynamics (flight simulator).
> >
> > 	Unless that flight simulator is running on some big ugly ANALOG
> > computer (the ones that used rheostats, transformers, and
> > amplifiers), they all are really using discrete time intervals and
> > computing values at those time points. Such computation may require
> > integration of continuous functions from previous time step to
> > current time step.
> 
> I think Nicolas means "(discrete event) simulation" as opposed to
> "discrete (event simulation)" and "(continuous system) simulation" as
> opposed to "continuous (system simulation)". The methods used in SimPy
> to model (discrete events) don't apply terribly well to simulating
> many (continuous systems) like airplane dynamics. For example, an ODE
> integrator would probably want to adaptively select its timesteps as
> opposed to laying out a uniform discretization upfront.
> 

Yes you are absolutely right. That's what I wanted to mean.
Thanks


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 11 14:29:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:29:18 +0200
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><di8kmc$97c$1@sea.gmane.org><mailman.1776.1128800832.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dih09r$kcv$1@sea.gmane.org>

Java and Swing wrote:

> So is "module.c" a new C file or do I add it to my existing, myapp.c?

it's a complete module.  if you want it to do something other than printing
the arguments, replace the "do stuff" section with your own code.  if you
want to call it something else, rename it.  if you want to change the API,
change it.  it's not that large; you should be able to figure out what it does
and how it does it in no time at all.

</F> 





From lbolognini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 22:21:42 2005
From: lbolognini at gmail.com (lbolognini at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 19:21:42 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What do u think of the following? I could keep the form schema as
expected_form1_kwargs in a separate module and import * and wrap the
kwargs check done in the for loop in a function for use in the whole
site.

The elif part is useful for checkboxes which are not passed by the
browser if they're not checked.

def foo(self, **kwargs)
    expected_form1_kwargs = [arg1, arg2]

    for name in kwargs:
        if name not in expected_form1_kwargs:
            raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword" + name
        elif name in expected_form1_kwargs not in kwargs.keys():
            kwargs.update(name=None)


Thanks again everybody,
Lorenzo



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 23:24:04 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:24:04 +1000
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1738.1128737194.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.08.03.19.47.594415@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.03.24.03.848419@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:19:48 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> 
> def count_matches(s, words):
>     temp = [word.lower().startswith(s) for word in words]
>     return len(temp)


Oops! A *serious* bug in that code :-(

Replace "return len(temp)" with "return len(filter(None, temp))".

-- 
Steven.



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Tue Oct  4 12:10:28 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:10:28 GMT
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-32A291.12103704102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1128395422.904212.318930 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am developing a program for a client.  She runs a shop where her
> clients bring in items for sale or short term buyback.  Development of
> the program has been going great but she's mentioned that there is a
> 'feature' coming up in the next couple of weeks that she'd like me to
> implement that has me a bit worried.
> 
> My client has told me a story of how she hired someone from a competing
> store and that person had brought a copy of the program her competition
> was using to track clients and transactions.  He couldn't demonstrate
> the program for one reason or another because it was protected in a way
> that neither could circumvent. (She didn't remember how it was
> protected, she had hired this person a long time ago.)
> 
> Now that I'm three months into the development of this program, my
> client tells me she would like to protect her investment by preventing
> her employees from doing the same to her.  (Going to the competition
> and using her program.)
 ...

Call the competition and ask them what they used.  Point out that it 
worked.  If they won't tell you, just look at their software until you 
find out.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From xah at xahlee.org  Tue Oct 11 08:23:46 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 05:23:46 -0700
Subject: Python Doc Problem Example: sort() (reprise)
In-Reply-To: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Python Doc Problem Example: sort()

Xah Lee, 200503
Exhibit: Incompletion & Imprecision

Python doc ?3.6.4 Mutable Sequence Types? at
http://python.org/doc/2.4/lib/typesseq-mutable.html

in which contains the documentation of the ?sort? method of a list.
Quote:

?
Operation 	Result 	Notes
s.sort([cmp[, key[, reverse]]]) 	sort the items of s in place 	(7),
(8), (9), (10)

    (7) The sort() and reverse() methods modify the list in place for
economy of space when sorting or reversing a large list. To remind you
that they operate by side effect, they don't return the sorted or
reversed list.

    (8) The sort() method takes optional arguments for controlling the
comparisons.

    cmp specifies a custom comparison function of two arguments (list
items) which should return a negative, zero or positive number
depending on whether the first argument is considered smaller than,
equal to, or larger than the second argument: "cmp=lambda x,y:
cmp(x.lower(), y.lower())"

    key specifies a function of one argument that is used to extract a
comparison key from each list element: "cmp=str.lower"

    reverse is a boolean value. If set to True, then the list elements
are sorted as if each comparison were reversed.

    In general, the key and reverse conversion processes are much
faster than specifying an equivalent cmp function. This is because cmp
is called multiple times for each list element while key and reverse
touch each element only once.

    Changed in version 2.3: Support for None as an equivalent to
omitting cmp was added.

    Changed in version 2.4: Support for key and reverse was added.

    (9) Starting with Python 2.3, the sort() method is guaranteed to be
stable. A sort is stable if it guarantees not to change the relative
order of elements that compare equal -- this is helpful for sorting in
multiple passes (for example, sort by department, then by salary
grade).

    (10) While a list is being sorted, the effect of attempting to
mutate, or even inspect, the list is undefined. The C implementation of
Python 2.3 and newer makes the list appear empty for the duration, and
raises ValueError if it can detect that the list has been mutated
during a sort.
?


As a piece of documentation, this is a lousy one.

The question Python doc writers need to ask when evaluating this piece
of doc are these:

? can a experienced programer who is expert at several languages but
new to Python, and also have read the official Python tutorial, can he,
read this doc, and know exactly how to use sort with all the options?

? can this piece of documentation be rewritten fairly easily, so that
the answer to the previous question is a resounding yes?

To me, the answers to the above questions are No and Yes. Here are some
issues with the doc:

? In the paragraph about the ?key? parameter, the illustration
given is: ?cmp=str.lower?. It should be be ?key=str.lower?

? This doc lacks examples. One or two examples will help a lot,
especially to less experienced programers. (which comprises the
majority of readers) In particular, it should give a full example of
using the comparison function and one with the ?key? parameter.
Examples are particularly needed here because these parameteres are
functions, often with the ?lambda? construct. These are unusual and
advanced constructs among imperative programers.

? This doc fails to mention what happens when the predicate and the
shortcut version conflicts. e.g. ?myList.sort(cmp=lambda x,y:
cmp(x[0], y[0]), key=lambda x: str(x[1]) )?

? The syntax notation Python doc have adopted for indicating optional
parameters, does not give a clear view just exactly what combination of
optional parameters can be omitted. The notation: ?s.sort([cmp[,
key[, reverse]]])? gives the impression that only trailing arguments
can be omitted, which is not true.

? The doc gives no indication of how to omit a optional arg. Should
it be ?nul?, ?Null?, 0, or left empty? Since it doesn't give
any examples, doc reader who isn't Python experts is left to guess at
how true/false values are presented in Python.

? On the whole, the way this doc is written does not give a clear
picture of the roles of the supplied options, nor how to use them.

Suggested Quick Remedy: add a example of using the cmp function. And a
example using the ?key? function. Add a example of Using one of
them and with reverse. (the examples need not to come with much
explanations. One sentence annotation is better than none.)

Other than that, the way the doc is layed out with a terse table and
run-on footnotes (employed in several places in Python doc) is not
inductive. For a better improvement, there needs to be a overhaul of
the organization and the attitude of the entire doc. The organization
needs to be programing based, as opposed to implementation or computer
science based. (in this regard, one can learn from the Perl folks). As
to attitude, the writing needs to be Python-as-is, as opposed to
computer science framework, as indicated in the early parts of this
critique series.
----------------
This post is archived at:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From leonard.richardson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 12:34:24 2005
From: leonard.richardson at gmail.com (leonardr)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 09:34:24 -0700
Subject: html parser?
References: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<mailman.2212.1129632708.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dj2lq0$s27$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<qysxtmgb7ql.kadcgt64tvy2.dlg@40tude.net>
	<mailman.2250.1129715791.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129739663.971987.264100@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

To extract links without the overhead of Beautiful Soup, one option is
to copy what Beautiful Soup does, and write a SGMLParser subclass that
only looks at 'a' tags. In general I think writing SGMLParser
subclasses is a big pain (which is why I wrote Beautiful Soup), but
since you only care about one type of tag it's not so difficult:

from sgmllib import SGMLParser

class LinkParser(SGMLParser):
    def __init__(self):
        SGMLParser.__init__(self)
        self.links = []
        self.currentLink = None
        self.currentLinkText = []

    def start_a(self, attrs):
        #If we encounter a nested a tag, end the current a tag and
        #start a new one.
        if self.currentLink != None:
            self.end_a()
        for attr, value in attrs:
            if attr == 'href':
                self.currentLink = value
                break
        if self.currentLink == None:
            self.currentLink = ''

    def handle_data(self, data):
        if self.currentLink != None:
            self.currentLinkText.append(data)

    def end_a(self):
        self.links.append([self.currentLink,
                           "".join(self.currentLinkText)])
        self.currentLink = None
        self.currentLinkText = []

Since this ignores any tags other than 'a', it will strip out all tags
from the text within an 'a' tag (this might be what you want, since
your example shows an 'img' tag being stripped out). It will also close
one 'a' tag when it finds another, rather than attempting to nest them.

<a href="foo.php">This text has <b>embedded HTML tags</b></a>
=>
[['foo.php', 'This text has embedded HTML tags']]

<a href="foo.php">This text has <a name="anchor">an embedded
anchor</a>.
=>
[['foo.php', 'This text has '], ['', 'an embedded anchor']]

Alternatively, you can subclass a Beautiful Soup class to ignore all
tags except for 'a' tags and the tags that they contain. This will give
you the whole Beautiful Soup API, but it'll be faster because Beautiful
Soup will only build a model of the parts of your document within 'a'
tags. The following code seems to work (and it looks like a good
candidate for inclusion in the core package).

from BeautifulSoup import BeautifulStoneSoup

class StrainedStoneSoup(BeautifulStoneSoup):
    def __init__(self, interestingTags=["a"], *args):
        args = list(args)
        args.insert(0, self)
        self.interestingMap = {}
        for tag in interestingTags:
            self.interestingMap[tag] = True
        apply(BeautifulStoneSoup.__init__, args)

    def unknown_starttag(self, name, attrs, selfClosing=0):
        if self.interestingMap.get(name) or len(self.tagStack) > 1:
            BeautifulStoneSoup.unknown_starttag(self, name, attrs,
                                                selfClosing)

    def unknown_endtag(self, name):
        if len(self.tagStack) > 1:
            BeautifulStoneSoup.unknown_endtag(self, name)

    def handle_data(self, data):
        if len(self.tagStack) > 1:
            BeautifulStoneSoup.handle_data(self, data)



From programmer.py at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 09:36:07 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:36:07 -0500
Subject: ANN: Beginning Python (Practical Python 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <1129846526.743586.250430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <slrndlchfi.kor.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>
	<1129846526.743586.250430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510210636l238871d4ufa8f8b524becbfd4@mail.gmail.com>

Also, if any of you guys aren't listening to Ron's Python411 podcast,
you're missing out on a quality podcast about Python.  While not
necessarily `hardcore python' material, Ron does touch on various
things happening in the community along with discussion about nifty
python packages / modules that you may have missed.

Its one of my favorite podcasts.  Great job Ron!

jw

On 20 Oct 2005 15:15:26 -0700, UrsusMaximus at gmail.com
<UrsusMaximus at gmail.com> wrote:
> I found this book at my local Border's this week. It appears to be a
> most excellent book. I own and have read Magnus' earlier book "Pactical
> Python" (which was excellent) but this one is even better. The first
> half of the book covers the language, and then the second half goes
> into depth developing several practical applications. And of course now
> the book is very up to date. While I obviously have not had time to
> really study this book, I believe that anyone looking for an
> introduction to Python would be very hard pressed to find a better
> choice than this book.
>
> Ron Stephens
> Python411 podcast sereis
> http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 19:18:42 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:18:42 +0000
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <3snboiFolt77U1@individual.net>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.2713.1130709910.509.python-list@python.org>	<1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<3smn47FoolfbU1@individual.net>	<mailman.2737.1130771558.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3snboiFolt77U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <dk6c92$i7f$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Watson wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>>Since everyone needs this, how about building it in such that files 
>>>which are closed by the runtime, and not user code, are reported or 
>>>queryable?  Perhaps a command line switch to either invoke or suppress 
>>>reporting them on exit.
>>>
>>
>>This is a rather poor substitute from correct program design and 
>>implementation. It also begs the question of exactly what constitutes a 
>>"file". What about a network socket that the user has run makefile() on? 
>>What about a pipe to another process? This suggestion is rather 
>>ill-defined.
>>
>>
>>>Is there any facility for another program to peer into the state of a 
>>>Python program?  Would this be a security problem?
>>
>>It would indeed be a security problem, and there are enough of those 
>>already without adding more.
>>
>>regards
>> Steve
> 
> 
> All I am looking for is the runtime to tell me when it is doing things 
> that are outside the language specification and that the developer 
> should have coded.
> 
> How "ill" will things be when large bodies of code cannot run 
> successfully on a future version of Python or a non-CPython 
> implementation which does not close files.  Might as well put file 
> closing on exit into the specification.
> 
> The runtime knows it is doing it.  Please allow the runtime to tell me 
> what it knows it is doing.  Thanks.

In point oif fact I don't believe the runtime does any such thing 
(though I must admit I haven't checked the source, so you may prove me 
wrong).

As far as I know, Python simply relies on the opreating system to close 
files left open at the end of the program.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 03:33:22 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:33:22 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlrlt2.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djkmfs$2r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <2n3133-19g.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>     Yes, but that's the "if". I have a monopoly on *me* mowing your lawn. 
> You can, of course, go to someone else to have your lawn mowed.

Of course you can't - why would anyone else be available to mow my lawn
just because I want it to be so? Mowing a lawn requires a lifetime's
investment of skill acquirement, plus a small army of lawn mower
backup fronds advancement teams sitting in cold offices setting up the
lawnmower oil. And while I was searching for somebody else to do the
work my lawn business would be losing money like a sieve.


> Microsoft 
> only had a monopoly on *Microsoft* operating systems. Microsoft had no 

Nonsense. Microsoft had an effective monopoly on *IBM PC* operating
systems, thanks to nasty illegal competition-killing tactics that in
themselves were illegal (such as making their programs not work with
ther versions of dos).

> control over OSX, Linux, FreeBSD, and so on.

They had plenty of control, thanks to their monopoly position (and
Linux didn't exist then, FreeBSD came soon but was not a client
offering).

>     Essentially, Microsoft asked for exclusive arrangements. That is, 
> arrangements wherein you could not sell competing products if you wished to 
> sell Microsoft products. That's not even remotely unusual.

It soitenly is, stanley. In case you hadn't noticed, the shops sell
more than one kind of washing powder.

Please stop this shillism.

Peter


From rjt-usenet-removeme at thegrindstone.me.uk  Mon Oct 10 06:53:36 2005
From: rjt-usenet-removeme at thegrindstone.me.uk (Richard Taylor)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:53:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: problems using py2app
Message-ID: <didh7g$mma$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com>



Hi

I am trying to use py2app (http://undefined.org/python/) to package a
gnome-python application called gramps (http://www.gramps-project.org) for
MAC OS X. 
py2app does not have a mailing list so I thought I would start by asking
here and see if anyone could point me in the direction of a better
forum is there is one.
The command I am running is:

	python setup.py py2app

The error I am getting is (the full output is attached):

	-> raise ValueError, "New Mach-O header is too large to relocate"

It looks like there is a problem with the number of libraries that
gramps depends on, but I am new to the MAC and py2app so I am not sure where
to turn next to overcome this problem.
Any ideas?

Regards

Richard

running py2app
*** using recipe: sip ***
*** filtering dependencies ***
435 total
34 filtered
6 orphaned
401 remaining
*** create binaries ***
skipping python loader for extension 'MacOS'
skipping python loader for extension 'Nav'
skipping python loader for extension '_AE'
skipping python loader for extension '_Ctl'
skipping python loader for extension '_Dlg'
skipping python loader for extension '_Evt'
skipping python loader for extension '_File'
skipping python loader for extension '_Folder'
skipping python loader for extension '_Menu'
skipping python loader for extension '_Qd'
skipping python loader for extension '_Res'
skipping python loader for extension '_Win'
skipping python loader for extension '_codecs_cn'
skipping python loader for extension '_codecs_hk'
skipping python loader for extension '_codecs_iso2022'
skipping python loader for extension '_codecs_jp'
skipping python loader for extension '_codecs_kr'
skipping python loader for extension '_codecs_tw'
skipping python loader for extension '_locale'
skipping python loader for extension '_random'
skipping python loader for extension '_socket'
skipping python loader for extension '_ssl'
skipping python loader for extension '_weakref'
skipping python loader for extension 'array'
skipping python loader for extension 'binascii'
skipping python loader for extension 'bz2'
skipping python loader for extension 'cPickle'
skipping python loader for extension 'cStringIO'
skipping python loader for extension 'datetime'
skipping python loader for extension 'fcntl'
skipping python loader for extension 'icglue'
skipping python loader for extension 'itertools'
skipping python loader for extension 'math'
skipping python loader for extension 'md5'
skipping python loader for extension 'pwd'
skipping python loader for extension 'pyexpat'
skipping python loader for extension 'strop'
skipping python loader for extension 'struct'
skipping python loader for extension 'termios'
skipping python loader for extension 'time'
skipping python loader for extension 'unicodedata'
skipping python loader for extension 'zlib'
skipping python loader for extension '_bsddb'
skipping python loader for extension 'gconf'
skipping python loader for extension 'gnome._gnome'
skipping python loader for extension 'gnome.ui'
skipping python loader for extension 'gnomecanvas'
skipping python loader for extension 'gnomevfs'
skipping python loader for extension 'gobject'
skipping python loader for extension 'gtk._gtk'
skipping python loader for extension 'gtk.glade'
skipping python loader for extension 'pango'
*** byte compile python files ***
skipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/AddMedia.py
to AddMedia.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/AddSpouse.py to AddSpouse.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/AddrEdit.py
to AddrEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ArgHandler.py to ArgHandler.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/AttrEdit.py
to AttrEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/AutoComp.py
to AutoComp.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/BaseDoc.py
to BaseDoc.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Bookmarks.py to Bookmarks.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/CalSdn.py
to CalSdn.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ChooseParents.py to ChooseParents.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ColumnOrder.py to ColumnOrder.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Date.py to
Date.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DateDisplay.py to DateDisplay.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DateEdit.py
to DateEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DateHandler.py to DateHandler.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DateParser.py to DateParser.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DbPrompter.py to DbPrompter.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DdTargets.py to DdTargets.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DisplayModels.py to DisplayModels.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/DisplayTrace.py to DisplayTrace.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/EditPerson.py to EditPerson.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/EditPlace.py to EditPlace.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/EditSource.py to EditSource.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Errors.py
to Errors.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/EventEdit.py to EventEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Exporter.py
to Exporter.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/FamilyView.py to FamilyView.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/FontScale.py to FontScale.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GedcomInfo.py to GedcomInfo.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GenericFilter.py to GenericFilter.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsBSDDB.py to GrampsBSDDB.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsCfg.py to GrampsCfg.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsDBCallback.py to GrampsDBCallback.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsDbBase.py to GrampsDbBase.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsGEDDB.py to GrampsGEDDB.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsGconfKeys.py to GrampsGconfKeys.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsInMemDB.py to GrampsInMemDB.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsIniKeys.py to GrampsIniKeys.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsKeys.py to GrampsKeys.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsMime.py to GrampsMime.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/GrampsXMLDB.py to GrampsXMLDB.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ImageSelect.py to ImageSelect.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ImgManip.py
to ImgManip.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ListModel.py to ListModel.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/LocEdit.py
to LocEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Marriage.py
to Marriage.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/MediaView.py to MediaView.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/MergeData.py to MergeData.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/MergePeople.py to MergePeople.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/NameDisplay.py to NameDisplay.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/NameEdit.py
to NameEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/NoteEdit.py
to NoteEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/PaperMenu.py to PaperMenu.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/PedView.py
to PedView.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/PeopleModel.py to PeopleModel.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/PeopleView.py to PeopleView.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/PlaceView.py to PlaceView.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/PluginMgr.py to PluginMgr.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Plugins.py
to Plugins.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/QuestionDialog.py to QuestionDialog.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ReadGedcom.py to ReadGedcom.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ReadGrdb.py
to ReadGrdb.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ReadXML.py
to ReadXML.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/RecentFiles.py to RecentFiles.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/RelImage.py
to RelImage.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/RelLib.py
to RelLib.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Relationship.py to Relationship.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Report.py
to Report.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ReportUtils.py to ReportUtils.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/SelectChild.py to SelectChild.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/SelectObject.py to SelectObject.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/SelectPerson.py to SelectPerson.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/SourceView.py to SourceView.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Sources.py
to Sources.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Spell.py to
Spell.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/StartupDialog.py to StartupDialog.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/StyleEditor.py to StyleEditor.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/TarFile.py
to TarFile.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/TipOfDay.py
to TipOfDay.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/TransTable.py to TransTable.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/UrlEdit.py
to UrlEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Utils.py to
Utils.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/Witness.py
to Witness.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/WriteGedcom.py to WriteGedcom.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/WriteGrdb.py to WriteGrdb.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/WriteXML.py
to WriteXML.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/ansel_utf8.py to ansel_utf8.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/const.py to
const.pycskipping byte-compilation of /Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/gramps.py
to gramps.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/gramps_main.py to gramps_main.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/src/latin_utf8.py to latin_utf8.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/ConfigParser.py to ConfigParser.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/StringIO.py to StringIO.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/UserDict.py to UserDict.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/__future__.py to __future__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/_strptime.py to _strptime.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/base64.py to base64.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/bsddb/__init__.py to bsddb/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/bsddb/db.py to bsddb/db.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/bsddb/dbshelve.py to bsddb/dbshelve.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/calendar.py to calendar.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/cgi.py to cgi.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/codecs.py to codecs.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/copy.py to copy.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/copy_reg.py to copy_reg.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/dis.py to dis.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/dummy_thread.py to dummy_thread.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Charset.py to email/Charset.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Encoders.py to email/Encoders.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Errors.py to email/Errors.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/FeedParser.py to
email/FeedParser.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Generator.py to email/Generator.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Header.py to email/Header.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Iterators.py to email/Iterators.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py to email/Message.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Parser.py to email/Parser.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/Utils.py to email/Utils.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/__init__.py to email/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/_parseaddr.py to
email/_parseaddr.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/base64MIME.py to
email/base64MIME.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/email/quopriMIME.py to
email/quopriMIME.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/__init__.py to
encodings/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/aliases.py to
encodings/aliases.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/ascii.py to encodings/ascii.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/base64_codec.py to
encodings/base64_codec.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/big5.py to encodings/big5.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/big5hkscs.py to
encodings/big5hkscs.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/bz2_codec.py to
encodings/bz2_codec.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/charmap.py to
encodings/charmap.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp037.py to encodings/cp037.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1006.py to
encodings/cp1006.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1026.py to
encodings/cp1026.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1140.py to
encodings/cp1140.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1250.py to
encodings/cp1250.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1251.py to
encodings/cp1251.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1252.py to
encodings/cp1252.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1253.py to
encodings/cp1253.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1254.py to
encodings/cp1254.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1255.py to
encodings/cp1255.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1256.py to
encodings/cp1256.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1257.py to
encodings/cp1257.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp1258.py to
encodings/cp1258.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp424.py to encodings/cp424.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp437.py to encodings/cp437.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp500.py to encodings/cp500.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp737.py to encodings/cp737.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp775.py to encodings/cp775.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp850.py to encodings/cp850.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp852.py to encodings/cp852.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp855.py to encodings/cp855.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp856.py to encodings/cp856.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp857.py to encodings/cp857.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp860.py to encodings/cp860.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp861.py to encodings/cp861.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp862.py to encodings/cp862.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/cp863.py to encodings/cp863.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/euc_jisx0213.py to
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/euc_jp.py to
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encodings/hex_codec.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/hz.py to encodings/hz.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/idna.py to encodings/idna.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/iso2022_jp.py to
encodings/iso2022_jp.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/iso2022_jp_2004.py to
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/iso2022_jp_3.py to
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/iso2022_jp_ext.py to
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/iso2022_kr.py to
encodings/iso2022_kr.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/iso8859_1.py to
encodings/iso8859_1.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/iso8859_7.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/iso8859_8.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/koi8_r.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/koi8_u.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/mac_cyrillic.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/mac_greek.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/mac_iceland.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/mac_latin2.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/mac_turkish.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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encodings/unicode_escape.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/encodings/utf_16.py to
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encodings/uu_codec.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Appearance.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/AppleEvents.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/CarbonEvents.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/ControlAccessor.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Controls.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Dialogs.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Dragconst.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/Carbon/Events.py to
Carbon/Events.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/File.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Files.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Folder.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Folders.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/Carbon/Menu.py to
Carbon/Menu.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/Carbon/Qd.py to Carbon/Qd.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/Carbon/QuickDraw.py to
Carbon/QuickDraw.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/Carbon/Res.py to Carbon/Res.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/Carbon/TextEdit.py to
Carbon/TextEdit.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/Windows.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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Carbon/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/EasyDialogs.py to
EasyDialogs.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/aepack.py to aepack.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/applesingle.py to
applesingle.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/Finder/Standard_Suite.py to Finder/Standard_Suite.pycskipping byte-compilation
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/Finder/Type_Definitions.py to Finder/Type_Definitions.pycskipping byte-compilation
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/Finder/Window_classes.py to Finder/Window_classes.pycskipping byte-compilation
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/Finder/__init__.py to Finder/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/StdSuites/AppleScript_Suite.py to StdSuites/AppleScript_Suite.pycskipping byte-compilation
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/StdSuites/Macintosh_Connectivity_Clas.py to StdSuites/Macintosh_Connectivity_Clas.pycskipping byte-compilation
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/StdSuites/QuickDraw_Graphics_Suite.py to StdSuites/QuickDraw_Graphics_Suite.pycskipping byte-compilation
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/StdSuites/QuickDraw_Graphics_Suppleme.py to StdSuites/QuickDraw_Graphics_Suppleme.pycskipping byte-compilation
of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages/StdSuites/Type_Names_Suite.py to StdSuites/Type_Names_Suite.pycskipping byte-compilation
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macresource.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/posixpath.py to posixpath.pycskipping byte-compilation of
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/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/random.py to random.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/re.py to re.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/repr.py to repr.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/rfc822.py to rfc822.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/sets.py to sets.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/shutil.py to shutil.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/socket.py to socket.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/sre.py to sre.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py to sre_compile.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/sre_constants.py to sre_constants.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py to sre_parse.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/stat.py to stat.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/string.py to string.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/stringprep.py to stringprep.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/tempfile.py to tempfile.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/token.py to token.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/tokenize.py to tokenize.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/traceback.py to traceback.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/types.py to types.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/unittest.py to unittest.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/urllib.py to urllib.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/urlparse.py to urlparse.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/uu.py to uu.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/warnings.py to warnings.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/weakref.py to weakref.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/__init__.py to xml/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/parsers/__init__.py to
xml/parsers/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/parsers/expat.py to
xml/parsers/expat.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/sax/__init__.py to
xml/sax/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/sax/_exceptions.py to
xml/sax/_exceptions.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/sax/expatreader.py to
xml/sax/expatreader.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/sax/handler.py to xml/sax/handler.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/sax/saxutils.py to
xml/sax/saxutils.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/xml/sax/xmlreader.py to
xml/sax/xmlreader.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/__init__.py to gnome/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/canvas.py to gnome/canvas.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnome/vfs.py to gnome/vfs.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py to gtk/__init__.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/keysyms.py to gtk/keysyms.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/py2app/bootstrap/boot_app.py to boot_app.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/py2app/bootstrap/chdir_resource.py to chdir_resource.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/py2app/bootstrap/disable_linecache.py to disable_linecache.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pygtk.py to pygtk.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/MacOS.py to
MacOS.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/Nav.py to
Nav.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_AE.py to
_AE.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Ctl.py to
_Ctl.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Dlg.py to
_Dlg.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Evt.py to
_Evt.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_File.py to
_File.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Folder.py to
_Folder.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Menu.py to
_Menu.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Qd.py to
_Qd.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Res.py to
_Res.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_Win.py to
_Win.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_codecs_cn.py to
_codecs_cn.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_codecs_hk.py to
_codecs_hk.pycskipping byte-compilation
of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_codecs_iso2022.py to _codecs_iso2022.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_codecs_jp.py to
_codecs_jp.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_codecs_kr.py to
_codecs_kr.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_codecs_tw.py to
_codecs_tw.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_locale.py to
_locale.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_random.py to
_random.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_socket.py to
_socket.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_ssl.py to
_ssl.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_weakref.py to
_weakref.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/array.py to
array.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/binascii.py to
binascii.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/bz2.py to
bz2.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/cPickle.py to
cPickle.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/cStringIO.py to
cStringIO.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/datetime.py to
datetime.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/fcntl.py to
fcntl.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/icglue.py to
icglue.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/itertools.py to
itertools.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/math.py to
math.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/md5.py to
md5.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/pwd.py to
pwd.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/pyexpat.py to
pyexpat.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/strop.py to
strop.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/struct.py to
struct.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/termios.py to
termios.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/time.py to
time.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/unicodedata.py
to unicodedata.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/zlib.py to
zlib.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/_bsddb.py to
_bsddb.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gconf.py to
gconf.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gnome/_gnome.py
to gnome/_gnome.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gnome/ui.py to
gnome/ui.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gnomecanvas.py
to gnomecanvas.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gnomevfs.py to
gnomevfs.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gobject.py to
gobject.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gtk/_gtk.py to
gtk/_gtk.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/gtk/glade.py to
gtk/glade.pycskipping byte-compilation of
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/temp/pango.py to
pango.pyc*** creating application bundle: gramps ***
copying
build/bdist.darwin-8.2.1-Power_Macintosh/python2.4-standalone/app/site-packages.zip ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Resources/Pythoncopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/English.lproj/InfoPlist.strings
->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/English.lprojcopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4copying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/Info.plist ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resourcescopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/version.plist ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resourcescopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/bin/python ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/bincopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/English.lproj/InfoPlist.strings
->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/English.lprojcopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4copying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/Info.plist ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resourcescopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/version.plist ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resourcescopying
/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/bin/python ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/bincopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
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/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib ->
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/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.dylib ->
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/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib ->
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/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib ->
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/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libexpat.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libjpeg.62.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libjpeg.62.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libexpat.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libexpat.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libatk-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libjpeg.62.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libexpat.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libjpeg.62.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libexpat.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libatk-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libz.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libtiff.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libjpeg.62.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/Frameworkscopying /opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libexpat.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libpango-1.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libcairo.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.0.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libintl.3.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libiconv.2.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksWARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
copying /opt/local/lib/libXrender.1.dylib ->
/Users/rjt/Src/gramps-2.0.8/dist/gramps.app/Contents/FrameworksTraceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/py2app/build_app.py", line 480, in _run    self.run_normal()
  File
"/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/py2app/build_app.py", line 538, in run_normal    self.create_binaries(py_files, pkgdirs, extensions, loader_files)
  File
"/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/py2app/build_app.py", line 636, in create_binaries    platfiles = mm.run()
  File
"/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/macholib/MachOStandalone.py", line 119, in run    node.write(f)
  File
"/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/macholib/MachO.py", line 221, in write    self.synchronize_size()
  File
"/opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/macholib/MachO.py", line 214, in synchronize_size    raise ValueError, "New Mach-O header is too large to relocate"
ValueError: New Mach-O header is too large to relocate
WARNING: Mach-O header may be too large to relocate
> /opt/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py2app/macholib/MachO.py(214)synchronize_size()
-> raise ValueError, "New Mach-O header is too large to relocate"
(Pdb) (Pdb) interrupted


-- 




From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 31 16:11:56 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:11:56 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <867jbt2xyb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86br1530w7.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> Of course, you've dropped the real point, which is your own inabillity
>> to distinguish between, as you put it, "guns and arguments." You
>> always act as if every mention of a crime committed by someone other
>> than microsoft involved guns, even when most of them don't. You have
>> as yet to offer any explanation for that other than that you're
>> following MS's orders.
>     Your sole evidence for this claim is that I once equated "theft" with 
> force. Yes, you are correct that it's possible to steal something without 
> using force. Even in this case, from context, it was quite clear that 
> forceful theft was intended.

No, my evidence for this claim, as I've repeatedly pointed out, is
that *every* time someone compares MS with any other criminal
activity, you whine about "guns" and refuse to deal with the
issue. You've gone from claiming that you don't do this, to claiming
you only do this when people refer to guns, to ducking the issue.

>     There is a fundamental category difference between the fundamental 
> inter-personal wrongs of force and fraud and every other invented wrong. 
> People are making a concerted attempt in this thread to obliterate that 
> distinction, and I include you in those making that attempt.

Another straw man. I'm not trying to oblitarate that difference, I'm
trying to find out why you regularly ignore that difference for
everyone but MS. You respond by falsely claiming that you aren't doing
so, or by ducking the issue.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From kn0805 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 10 12:21:48 2005
From: kn0805 at hotmail.com (Kim Nguyen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:21:48 +0000
Subject: unable to import os
Message-ID: <BAY101-F34FBE0905E65637D5FD2A6C7790@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20051010/0fa66083/attachment.html>

From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Tue Oct  4 15:18:21 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:18:21 -0500
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <20051004190827.3914.1498135555.divmod.quotient.23977@ohm>
References: <20051004190827.3914.1498135555.divmod.quotient.23977@ohm>
Message-ID: <75413d3cffc252448b61e93e7220b762@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Oct 4, 2005, at 2:08 PM, Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:22:24 -0500, Michael Ekstrand 
> <mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov> wrote:
>> I've never seen "stock" Python (stable release w/ only included 
>> modules)
>> segfault, but did see a segfault with an extension module I was using
>> the other week (lxml IIRC, but I'm not sure).
>>
>
> exarkun at boson:~$ python
> Python 2.4.2c1 (#2, Sep 24 2005, 00:48:19)
> [GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.setrecursionlimit(1e9)
> __main__:1: DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float
>>>> (lambda f: f(f))(lambda f: f(f))
> Segmentation fault
> exarkun at boson:~$ python
> Python 2.4.2c1 (#2, Sep 24 2005, 00:48:19)
> [GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> class foo(type):
> ...     def mro(self):
> ...         return [float]
> ...
>>>> class bar:
> ...     __metaclass__ = foo
> ...
> Segmentation fault
> exarkun at boson:~$ python
> Python 2.4.2c1 (#2, Sep 24 2005, 00:48:19)
> [GCC 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu8)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import dl
>>>> dl.open('libc.so.6').call('memcpy', 0, 0, 1024)
> Segmentation fault
> exarkun at boson:~$

I stand corrected.

Except for the 2nd one, where I'm not quite sure what's going on, I'd 
say I have yet to see the Python interpreter crash when doing "normal" 
things not involving C esoteria (for some definition of normal not 
including setting the recursion limit to 1e9).

Or  maybe my total faith in Python to keep me from ever having to think 
about memory problems when doing high-level coding is misplaced, but 
I'd like to think not...

- Michael



From http  Fri Oct  7 15:10:54 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 12:10:54 -0700
Subject: Objects with different data views
References: <pan.2005.10.07.16.52.21.660639@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xhdbtdzss.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128710249.776369.176120@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xmzllcfcx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Yeah, that's what I meant.  Thanks.


From email at christoph-haas.de  Mon Oct 24 04:40:42 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:40:42 +0200
Subject: New User
In-Reply-To: <djeq29+5mv7@eGroups.com>
References: <djeq29+5mv7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510241040.42406.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Sunday 23 October 2005 03:46, thatchmatic wrote:
> I just downloaded and I think installed python.  I am not sure if I
> did cause it does'nt respond to the commands that the read me file
> told me to use.  Also can someone suggest a trial program I can maybe
> write for fun?

Try http://diveintopython.org/installing_python/shell.html

Otherwise please provide more information so we can help.

 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From renting at astron.nl  Tue Oct 25 03:45:17 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:45:17 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Message-ID: <s35dfeca.016@server7.nfra.nl>

>>>"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> 10/25/05 6:06 am >>> 
& 
& Do you think it would be immoral if Microsoft said, "we will only sell 
&Windows wholesale to dealers who don't sell other operating systems?" 
& 
&   DS 
7 
& 
It goes one further as that, MS had the tactic of "we will only sell Windows wholesale to dealers who do not sell computers without Windows." It's not even about selling an other OS, it's about selling a computer without an OS.

I realy liked the aussie toshiba example, I had read it before, but it realy makes it clear how firm the grip is MS has on the hardware manufacturers.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 10:40:37 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 07:40:37 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129124677.976559.27790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129124677.976559.27790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129128037.806660.231840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

ok, further digging...I found that in the C function GetVal...it is
crashing where I try to malloc some memory. Note, I have no problems
when running this from C..just from Python using my wrapper.

GetVal looks something like..
MY_NUM *GetVal(const char *in, const int x) {
    MY_NUM *results, *returnResults;
    results = (MY_NUM *) malloc((x * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1);
    returnResults = results;
    // ..do more work..
    return returnResults;
}

I put in print statements into the C code and found that it is crashing
at the line where I malloc some space for "results".

...any ideas why this is crashing when calling from Python via C
wrapper?

Java and Swing wrote:
> Sorry about the double post...
>
> anyhow, after putting in debug statements I found that it was crashing
> when it called, free(result)....so I removed the free(result).
>
> now it crashes when it gets to, b = GetVal(bString, count(bString,
> ","));
>
> ..any ideas?
>
> Java and Swing wrote:
> > Antoon,
> >    I just saw that to.  I updated the code like so...
> >
> > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> > 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> >   	PyObject *finalResult;
> >
> >   	// get arguments from Python
> >   	char *result = 0;
> >   	char *in= 0;
> >       	char *aString = 0;
> >   	char *bString = 0;
> >   	MY_NUM *a = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1);  //
> > the array will be 20 long
> >   	MY_NUM *b = (MY_NUM *) PyMem_Malloc((20 * sizeof(MY_NUM) + 1); //
> > the array will be 20 long
> >   	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> >   	if (!ok) return 0;
> >
> >   	// do work to get a and b
> >   	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a MY_NUM * (a pointer
> > to a MY_NUM array)
> >   	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> >   	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
> >
> >   	// make function call, which returns a char *
> >   	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
> >
> >   	// save result in Python string
> >   	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
> >
> >   	// free memory
> >   	PyMem_Free(a);
> >   	PyMem_Free(b);
> > 	free(aString);
> >  	free(bString);
> > 	free(result);
> >
> >   	// return the result as a Python string
> >   	return finalResult;
> >   }
> >
> > ..as you can see, i malloc'ed memory, and free'd the memory.  However,
> > I still have python crashing (after only 3 successful calls to
> > doStuff).  And yes, doStuff is a plain C function...nothing related to
> > Python.
> >
> >
> > Antoon Pardon wrote:
> > > Op 2005-10-12, Java and Swing schreef <codecraig at gmail.com>:
> > > > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> > > > 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> > > > 	PyObject *finalResult;
> > > >
> > > > 	// get arguments from Python
> > > > 	char *result = 0;
> > > > 	char *in= 0;
> > > >     	char *aString = 0;
> > > > 	char *bString = 0;
> > > > 	MY_NUM *a;
> > > > 	MY_NUM *b;
> > > > 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> > > > 	if (!ok) return 0;
> > > >
> > > > 	// do work to get a and b
> > > > 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> > > > 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> > > > 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
> > > >
> > > > 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> > > > 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
> > > >
> > > > 	// save result in Python string
> > > > 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
> > > >
> > > > 	// free memory
> > > > 	PyMem_Free(result);
> > > > 	PyMem_Free(a);
> > > > 	PyMem_Free(b);
> > > >
> > > > 	// return the result as a Python string
> > > > 	return finalResult;
> > > > }
> > > >
> > > > ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> > > > call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> > > > problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> > > > actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> > > > problem
> > > > so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas?  Thanks!
> > >
> > > Well assuming your doStuff is a C function that knows nothing of python.
> > > it might be the PyMem_Free(result).
> > > http://docs.python.org/api/memoryInterface.html says the following:
> > >
> > > void PyMem_Free(void *p)
> > >     Frees the memory block pointed to by p, which must have been
> > >     returned by a previous call to PyMem_Malloc() or PyMem_Realloc().
> > >     Otherwise, or if PyMem_Free(p) has been called before, undefined
> > >     behavior occurs. If p is NULL, no operation is performed.
> > >
> > > But your result wasn't allocated by a PyMem_Malloc, it was returned
> > > to you by a C function.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Antoon Pardon



From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 11:08:20 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 08:08:20 -0700
Subject: tuple versus list
In-Reply-To: <1129460775.484350.209520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129460775.484350.209520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129475300.537237.131090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

In this particular case, it seems that (width,height) looks nicer. But
I think otherwise, list constuct is easier to read, even though it is
supposed to be slower.

With list you can :
[a] + [ x for x in something ]

With tuple it looks like this :
(a,) + tuple(x for x in something)

I think the list looks cleaner. And since you cannot concat tuple with
list, I think unless it looks obvious and natural(as in your case), use
list.

Xah Lee wrote:
> suppose i'm going to have a data structure like this:
>
> [
> [imgFullPath,(width, height)],
> [imgFullPath,(width, height)],
> [imgFullPath,(width, height)],
> [imgFullPath,(width, height)],
> ...
> ]
>
> should i use (width,height) or [width,height]?
> what advantage i get to use n-tuple instead of the generic list?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/



From haraldarminmassa at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 04:31:45 2005
From: haraldarminmassa at gmail.com (Harald Armin  Massa)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 01:31:45 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Casey,


> I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
> about
> 10,000 lines in C++
> it is about
> 5,000 lines in Java
> and it is about
> 3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)

BTW: it is normally only 50 lines in Perl. Not that you could read it,
though

Harald



From akbarhome at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 06:41:35 2005
From: akbarhome at gmail.com (akbar)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 03:41:35 -0700
Subject: "import socket" error
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1785.1128849987.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128849129.254683.155420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1785.1128849987.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128854495.213406.124330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Fedora Core 4.



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 09:20:12 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 15:20:12 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
Message-ID: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>

After working through a fair number of the challenges at 
www.mathschallenge.net, I noticed that some long-running functions can 
be helped *a lot* by caching their function results and retrieving from 
cache instead of calculating again. This means that often I can use a 
natural recursive implementation instead of unwinding the recursive 
calls to avoid big exponential running-times.

Ok, so I thought, how about creating a decorator that caches the 
function results and retrieves them from cache if possible, otherwise it 
calls the function and store the value in the cache for the next invokation.

This is what I came up with so far:

def cache_function(fn):
     cache = {}
     def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
         if args in cache:
             return cache[args]
         result = fn(*args, **kwargs)
         cache[args] = result
         return result
     return cached_result

Example of usage:

@cache_function
def fibonacci(idx):
     if idx in (1, 2):
         return 1
     else:
         return fibonacci(idx-1) + fibonacci(idx-2)

for index in range(1, 101):
     print index, fibonacci(index)

this example goes from taking exponential time to run to being near 
instantaneous.

However, this:

for index in range(1, 101):
     print index, fibonacci(idx = index)

this one uses the kwargs list of arguments, and I'm not sure how to 
change my function to take that into account.

Does anyone have any clues as to how to do that?

The solution would have to consider fibonacci(50) and fibonacci(idx = 
50) as the same call and thus retrieve the second one from the cache.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From natibool at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 16:18:43 2005
From: natibool at gmail.com (Anat)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:18:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: looking for a good python module for MS SQL server
Message-ID: <dk61nj$mm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Hi,
Does anyone know a good python mudule that works with MS SQL server?
Thanks,
Anat 




From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 16:59:16 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:59:16 -0400
Subject: A question about searching with multiple strings
References: <1129927157.674735.13000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86zmp2si1n.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"googleboy" <mynews44 at yahoo.com> writes:
> for item in all_items:
>
> 	strItem = str(item)
>
> 	m = re.search(p[i], strItem, flags = re.I)
> 	if m:
> 		height = getattr(item, "height")
> 		length = getattr(item, "length")
> 		function = getattr(item, "function")
> 		print "height is %s, length is %s and function is %s" % height,
> length, function
>
>
> This has the limitation of only working over a single search item.  I
> want to be able to search over an uncontrollable number of search
> strings because I will have people wanting to search over 2, 3 or even
> (maybe) as many as 5 different things.
>
> I was thinking that I would try to write a function that created a
> sublist of Items if it matched and then run subsequent searches over
> the subsequent search strings using this sublist.
>
> I am not entirely sure how to store this subset of Items in such a way
> that I can make searches over it.  I guess I have to initialize a
> variable of type Item, which I can use to add matching Item's to,  but
> I have no idea how to do that....(If it was just a list I could say
> "sublist = []",  what do I use for self defined classes?  I Am also
> usure how to go about creating a function that will accept any number
> of parameters.
>
> Any assistance with these two questions will be greatly appreciated!

Don't use a real list, use an iterator. Inn particular,
itertools.ifilter will take an arbitrary sequence and returns a
sequence of items that a function says to.

for item in ifilter(lambda i: re.search(p[i], str(i), flags = re.I),
                   all_items):
    print "height is %s, length is %s and function is %s" % \
    		(item.height, item.length, item.function)

The trick is that ifilter returns a sequence, so you can nest them:

for item in filter(filter1, ifilter(filter2, ifilter(filter3, all_items))):
    ...

        <mike    
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From seungwjun at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 14:33:32 2005
From: seungwjun at gmail.com (sj)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 11:33:32 -0700
Subject: Controlling exception handling of logging module
Message-ID: <1129746812.846802.216550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Suppose the following are part of a long file and executed:

logging.basicConfig(stream = sys.stderr, level=logging.INFO)
logging.info("%d %d", 1, 2, 3)                                # buggy

Python prints the traceback of the error as follows:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File ".../local/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 706, in emit
    msg = self.format(record)
  File ".../local/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 592, in
format
    return fmt.format(record)
  File ".../local/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 382, in
format
    record.message = record.getMessage()
  File ".../local/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 253, in
getMessage
    msg = msg % self.args
TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting

It tells why error occurred, but the traceback is not helpful to locate
where it occurred.  I believe that's because the logging module caught
and ate up the exception.  I understand that this is a sensible setting
as logging shouldn't harm the main program, but in the debugging phase,
I really want this exception to propagate up so that I can easily
locate from my code.  Is there any way to control this behavior so the
error is not handled by the logging module itself?



From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 18:25:28 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 22:25:28 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F0847955C35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<39u723-ldp.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<Xns96F08C649FB60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<ig0823-bes.ln1@news.heiming.de>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0B13F5567castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:
 
> PLONK

So you think you can make points by PLONKing people? Grow up and get a 
life. You can learn from listening. You'll learn nothing from ploinking. 

Oh, and I am not amazed, since people who claim utter BS is right, plonk 
people who don't agree.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 12:05:31 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:05:31 -0600
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlucge.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlbnq$6jm$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlsflt.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlon4$f2k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlucge.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <n-Sdna7R34LbNMLeRVn-rA@comcast.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Christopher Subich schreef :
> 
>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>> >>>from decimal import Decimal
>>> >>>Zero = Decimal(0)
>>> >>>cmp( ( ) , Zero)
>>> -1
>>> >>>cmp(Zero, 1)
>>> -1
>>> >>>cmp(1, ( ) )
>>> -1
>>
>> I'd argue that the wart here is that cmp doesn't throw an exception, not 
>> that it returns inconsistent results.  This is a classic case of 
>> incomparable objects, and saying that 1 < an empty tuple is bordering on 
>> meaningless.
> 
> I wont argue with you here, but it is what python gives as now.
> Changing this behaviour is not going to happen.

FWIW, Guido has said a few times that in Python 3.0 we should "Raise an 
exception when making comparisons (other than equality and inequality) 
between two incongruent types."[1]  But yes, the behavior won't change 
in the Python 2.X series due to backwards compatibility concerns.

STeVe

[1] http://wiki.python.org/moin/Python3%2e0


From nbg at nbg.invalid  Tue Oct 25 18:01:05 2005
From: nbg at nbg.invalid (Not Bill Gates)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:01:05 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>
	<86zmox2vj1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc87519d9d81ba198a5cc@news.verizon.net>

mwm at mired.org wrote...
> Not Bill Gates <nbg at nbg.invalid> writes:
> > steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au wrote...
> >> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:
> >> > Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  
> >> You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
> >> the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?
> > You need to first prove innovation in desktop software has been 
> > crippled, don't you?
> 
> MS took desktop software through pretty much the same sequence of
> offerings that the mainframe and minicomputer software industry had
> been throgh: flat file systems and single-tasking OS's in a command
> line environment, adding nested file systems, adding TSRs, adding a
> windowing environment, adding true multitasking and finally
> multiprocessor systems. This took them what - 20+ years?

<shrug>  Being pissed off about how things could have been done 
better is a losing proposition.  Even so, I'm a LOT more pissed off 
that we're still driving around in 25 mpg polluting gas-burners than 
I am about not having Windows XP available in 1985.


From ms at cerenity.org  Sun Oct  2 21:31:29 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 02:31:29 +0100
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <434089c7$0$16339$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> I'm not
> sure what Guido saw in the "A if C else B" syntax but it's not a big deal.

Maybe Guido's done some perl programming on the side? When I've been doing
perl programming I've quite liked the .... if (...); construct, however, on
occasion it's been desirable to have an else there. By having an else there
it means you don't need the ?: syntax and can just have one syntax.

On the flipside, people with different mother tongues often have a different
way of using language. (eg lots of non-native english speakers speaking
better english than those with english as their mother tongue :-) And
sometimes that different way can be better ?

Direct translation of german grammatical form for example - resulting in
something looking like yoda speak... Personally I like this form :)

Regards,


Michael.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 26 20:21:07 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:21:07 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<11lsopl4qpg9gc2@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.17.16.04.89184@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83e5092b6a44c98a5ca@news.verizon.net>
	<ubr1cjmau.fsf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5970m1tfp5qoh9qpr6cbiki6n7b7ajbi3b@4ax.com>

On 26 Oct 2005 18:05:45 +0200, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
<jadedgamer at hotmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :

>> IBM seems to have had a history of squeezing out competition in the 
>> same way Microsoft has, if I recall correctly.
>
>... and were told not to by a court. Which is the whole reason for the
>existence of IBM clones, whether PCs or mainframes.

Back in the early days, IBM was just as bad as MS. Competition and
some smackdown by the DOJ, have made them much better behaved.


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Oct  5 13:13:45 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:13:45 -0400
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <slrndk80rn.ddo.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <20051005171345.3914.805460951.divmod.quotient.24388@ohm>



On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:47:06 +0200, Sybren Stuvel <sybrenuse at yourthirdtower.com.imagination> wrote:
>Flavio enlightened us with:
>> Can anyone tell me why, if the following code works, I should not do
>> this?
>>
>> def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):
>>
>> 	print 'locals:',locals()
>> 	locals().update(args)
>> 	print locals()
>
>Because it's very, very, very insecure. What would happen if someone
>found a way to call that function? It could replace any name in the
>locals dictionary, including functions from __builtins__. In other
>words: probably the whole program could be taken over by other code by
>just one call to that function.
>

If I can call functions in your process space, I've already taken over your whole program.

Jp


From mg.mailing-list at laposte.net  Fri Oct  7 07:03:56 2005
From: mg.mailing-list at laposte.net (mg)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:03:56 +0200
Subject: recursive function
In-Reply-To: <Ge-dnXvNWpFI1t3eRVn-jw@comcast.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<Ge-dnXvNWpFI1t3eRVn-jw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4346561C.1020706@laposte.net>

Hello,

In a recursive function like the following :


def foo( j ) :
  j += 1
  while j < n : j = foo( j )
  return j


in found that the recursivity is limited (1000 iterations). Then, I have 
two questions :
- why this mecanism has been implemented ?
- it is possible to increase or remove (and how) the number of iterations ?

Regards,
Mathieu


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 07:23:38 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:23:38 +0200
Subject: generic xmerge ?
References: <1129545131.875544.122630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kurr.y4wcn71rpq7x6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129547336.228373.10140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4kvit.1rahfvsg940b6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:

> oops, sorry. I meant
> 
> l1=[(date,v1,v2,v3), ...]
> l2=[ another set of tuples ]
> 
> Thanks. so I have to concat the multiple lists first(all of them are
> sorted already) ?

You can do it either way -- simplest, and pretty fast, is to concatenate
them all and sort the result (the sort method is very good at taking
advantage of any sorting that may already be present in some parts of
the list it's sorting), but you can also try a merging approach.  E.g.:


import heapq

def merge_by_heap(*lists):
  sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next]
                    for i, s in enumerate(map(iter,lists))]
  heapq.heapify(sources)
  while sources:
    best_source = sources[0]
    yield best_source[0]
    try: best_source[0] = best_source[-1]()
    except StopIteration: heapq.heappop(sources)
    else: heapq.heapreplace(sources, best_source)

Now, L=list(merge_by_heap(l1, l2, l3)) should work, just as well as,
say, L = sorted(l1+l2+l3).  I suspect the second approach may be faster,
as well as simpler, but it's best to _measure_ (use the timeit.py module
from the standard library) if this code is highly speed-critical for
your overall application.


Alex


From xah at xahlee.org  Tue Oct 18 18:47:16 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 15:47:16 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Xah Lee wrote:
> is there a way to condense the following loop into one line?
>
> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> # python
>
> import re, os.path
>
> imgPaths=[u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2059m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2062m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2097m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2099m-s.jpg',
> u'/Users/t/web/Icons_dir/icon_sum.gif']
>
> # change the image path to the full sized image, if it exists
> # that is, if image ends in -s.jpg, find one without the '-s'.
> temp=imgPaths[:]
> imgPaths=[]
> for myPath in temp:
>     p=myPath
>     (dirName, fileName) = os.path.split(myPath)
>     (fileBaseName, fileExtension)=os.path.splitext(fileName)
>     if(re.search(r'-s$',fileBaseName,re.U)):
>         p2=os.path.join(dirName,fileBaseName[0:-2]) + fileExtension
>         if os.path.exists(p2): p=p2
>     imgPaths.append(p)
>
> temp=[]
> print imgPaths

this is of interest to me, because i wanted to illustrate functional
programing, and Python's short-coming of it. (if you go to wikipedia
and read the article on Python, it will proudly say that Python
supports functional programing. A huge fucking lie. (more fantastic
fucking lies in the Perl article. And it is impossible to correct them,
because there is an army of ignorant morons, usually militant too, not
shy to do justice for humanity with heartiness.) )

In functional programing proper, the following loop for example would
be a single line. Why? because in fp, one is focused on the input &
output and less on the details how it is done. So here, one simply
reads the comment there and that'd be it. The one-line code would be in
the form of impPaths = f(impPaths), where f is a function made on the
spot.

So, in fp the source code tends to take the form of paragraphs of
algorithmic units, as opposed one million lines of code filling the
page.

I would have, written the following in a one-line. But in Python this
is impossible. (if possible, probably something so unusual and
unreadable)

... Here we may want to make a note on what does it mean to say that a
programing language supports functional programing. The FP style,
basically means that one writes pure functions and apply them to
expressions. That is, subroutines whose behavior are purely that of
input and output. (i.e. so-called without side-effects) But if one
programs in FP style, certain patterns of coding emerges. For example,
a lambda construct, sequencing of functions, assigning and moving of
functions, application of functions etc, and such languages naturally
developed many features in that direction such as types, macros, many
specialized loop constructs (recursion, nesting) and many other
features that goes by abstruse names...etc.

so here, if we judge Python (or Perl), why should we say it supports
functional programing? Simply because it is possible to define
subroutines without side-effects? What else, really, functional
language features does Python support? Can we really say, that a
functional programing coming to Python will find it reasonably supports
his FP coding style?

I would like to see the ?also support functional programing?
removed in the wikipedia Python article.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_programming_language )

(Perl the language, can arguably be said to support some functional
programing. (those Schwatchzian etc Transform for example, is a epitome
of functional programing.) However, Perl does not support
Object-Oriented programing.)

The Perl article is filled with more egregious lies. (In the past year)
I've tried to mend the article about every 3 months or so, tentatively
on obvious and technical and non-controversial items that's purely
propaganda but got denied by the Perl fuckfaces. I have written a full
page of criticism but the human animal fuckers handily censored it too.
If you think i have a point, please add this link to the Perl page's
external links.
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/perlr.html (book review and
criticism on Perl & community)

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From davideugenewarren at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 13:26:26 2005
From: davideugenewarren at gmail.com (davideugenewarren at gmail.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 10:26:26 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130261186.544092.151410@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


usgog at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a config file with the following contents:
> service A = {
>   params {
>     dir = "c:\test",
>     username = "test",
>     password = "test"
>   }
> }
>
> I want to find username and replace the value with another value. I
> don't know what the username value in advance though. How to do it in
> python?

>>> import re
>>> s = """service A = {
  params {
    dir = "c:\test",
    username = "test",
    password = "test"
  }

}"""
>>> usr_str = r'username = ".*",'
>>> usr_reg = re.compile(usr_str)
>>> usr_reg.sub('username = "%s",' % ('new_usr'),s)
'service A = {\n  params {\n    dir = "c:\test",\n    username =
"new_usr",\n    password = "test"\n  }\n\n}'



From devlai at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 05:35:59 2005
From: devlai at gmail.com (Devan L)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 02:35:59 -0700
Subject: execution order in list/generator expression
References: <1130059544.215010.318610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130060159.907461.158990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering how this is evaluated.
>
> a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])
> p=[4,5]
>
> c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]
>
> c is []
>
> but if I expand a first, like a = list(a)
>
> c is [4]
>
> So it seems that the "if" part don't get expanded ?

Well, for every element in p it recalculates list(a). Since the
generator is exhausted after making a list from it, it gives you
nothing afterwards. So after it checks the first element, it's
equivalent to [x for x in p if x in []].



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct  7 13:53:10 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:53:10 -0400
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
References: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86ll15nri1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"GregM" <gregm at taming-tech.com> writes:
> I've looked at a lot of pages on the net and still can't seem to nail
> this. Would someone more knowledgeable in regular expressions please
> provide some help to point out what I'm doing wrong?
>
> I am trying to see if a web page contains the exact text:
> You have found 0 matches

Why in the gods names are you using an re for this? Just use in:

>>> pretext1 = 'This is some text with You have found 0 matches in it'
>>> pretext2 = 'This text should not match'
>>> 'You have found 0 matches' in pretext1
True
>>> 'You have found 0 matches' in pretext2
False
>>> 

I think it's time to form a Committee for the Prevention of Regular
Expression Abuse.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Mon Oct 17 11:39:25 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 08:39:25 -0700
Subject: Problem Pythoncard tutorial
Message-ID: <1129563565.327047.327000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Under the "Getting Started with Pythoncard" there is a short little
example of changing the starter1.py.  I have made the 2 changes and
when I run the program I get the following error:

Traceback error

...
    result = dialog.alertDialog(self, 'It works!', 'Showing Off')
NameError: name 'self' is not defined

whats up

Len Sumnler



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Oct  6 17:29:07 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:29:07 +0200
Subject: Compile as static
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1596.1128591775.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1596.1128591775.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43459724$0$31719$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk wrote:
> However the executable size is always the same :/ Please assist.

At a minimum, you should edit Modules/Setup to compile all extension
modules in.

Regards,
Martin


From jaumedominguez at airtel.net  Thu Oct 20 14:54:53 2005
From: jaumedominguez at airtel.net (jau)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:54:53 +0200
Subject: A macro editor
Message-ID: <gKR5f.107432$US.72731@news.ono.com>

Hello mates.

I'm part of a big project's developer team. We are writting an 
application in Java and we are planning to add scripting functionality 
to it. What we exactly are planning is to give a kind of tool that would 
allow our users to write their own scripts to perform their special 
operations. Something like VBA does in several comercial applications. 
But, as we are GPL we have to use a close to GPL licensed-like language.

My teammates and I were talking about to use one of Python, Ruby or 
Groovy. But, we haven't decided which to use.

What seems to be easier is to use Python, you know.. because of the 
Jython thing. But, it is probably a mistake to take Jython without a 
extensive analysis of the all possibilities.

 From my point of view, the best choice will be those that allow the 
average user getting results as fast as possible rather than the power 
of the language itself. At the end, what we will write is a gateway to 
access to our application's Java API through the scripts written by our 
users.

In this sense, I'd like to ask if someone knows if any of these 
languages have a Java implementation that supports code auto-complete 
and class navigation or any kind of functionality that would ease and 
speed up the user's learning curve and productivity.

In other words, is it possible to have a small and lightly intelligent 
workbench window (a mini-Eclipse for example) for our future "macro 
editor" within our application?

I promise that if get some info I'll publish it here as soon I have it.

Thanks for your time!
Jaume


From codecraig at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 16:44:46 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 13:44:46 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
Message-ID: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I would like to redirect the output from os.system to a variable, but
am having trouble.  I tried using os.popen(..).read() ...but that
doesn't give me exactly what i want.

..this is windows by the way.

For example:
tmp = os.popen("hostname").read()

...works as expected.

however,

tmp = os.popen("cmd").read()
...i would like to have access to the cmd process...i.e. enter commands
like a normal command line. os.system() allows this, but i dont want
output to the screen..i wanna store it to a variable.  then send
content of variable elsewhere,  receive more input and submit it.
almost emulate the windows command prompt.

any ideas?



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Oct 27 14:04:24 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 11:04:24 -0700
Subject: MSH (shell)
Message-ID: <1130436264.681787.121250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

This can be of little interest of some people here, but I think it can
be interesting enough to justify a post.

An article on the Microsoft Command Shell:
http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/msh.ars
(Its syntax is rather Python-like, but Py syntax seems better to me,
even taking into account that their purposes are a little different).

Other info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSH_(shell)

Something vaguely similar made with Python:
http://geophile.com/osh/index.html

Bye,
bearophile



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 15:53:45 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:53:45 +0100
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128712076.122513.18090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1690.1128693730.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128694071.902605.201440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1706.1128701619.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128712076.122513.18090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di6jnv$p8r$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
>>Steve Holden wrote:
>>Consider:
> 
> 
>  >>> a = {1:'one'}
>  >>> b = {2:'two'}
>  >>> c = {1:'one'}
>  >>> a is c
> False
>  >>> a in [b, c]
> True
>  >>>
> 
> 
>>What would you have Python do differently in these circumstances?
> 
> 
> You mean: What i would do i if i was the benevolent dictator ?
> I would make a distinction between mutables and immutables. Immutables
> would test for equality and mutables would test for identity.

Which is exactly the wrong way round.

> Membership testing for objects is a very common use case which is
> totally unrelated to their being sorted according to a key.
> I am no expert on languages so i could be wrong. Don't hesitate to
> correct me.
> Alain
> 
It's not worth bothering - just work with Python how it is, and enjoy 
the language!

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sun Oct 16 13:20:29 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:20:29 GMT
Subject: [ANN] Speed up Charmap codecs with fastcharmap module
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-103A7C.13204016102005@news.verizon.net>

Fastcharmap is a python extension module that speeds up Charmap codecs 
by about 5 times.

<http://georgeanelson.com/fastcharmap.htm> 

Usage:

    import fastcharmap
    fastcharmap.hook('codec_name')

Fastcharmap will then speed up calls that use that codec, such as 
unicode(str, 'codec_name') and str.encode('codec_name'), and won't 
interfere with Charmap codecs that haven't been hooked.

Documentation is in PyDoc form:

    import fastcharmap
    help(fastcharmap)

Fastcharmap is available as a standard Python source tarball, binary 
tarball, and RPMs.  It isn't packaged for MSWindows yet (maybe soon), or 
for MOSX.  It is written in Python and Pyrex 0.9.3, but builds from .c 
source when Pyrex is not available.  A C compiler is required for source 
installs.  I have only used it with Python 2.3.4 on FC3 Linux, but it 
should work on Python 2.4 and on other platforms.

As fastcharmap is an extension module, it might not be available on a 
particular computer.  I handle that this way in a program of mine:

try:
    import fastcharmap
except ImportError:
    print "fastcharmap not available"
else:
    fastcharmap.hook('mac_roman')

This is done on document open, which on Gnome / GTK is chatty anyway.

I wrote fastcharmap when I found that decoding a large amount of text 
was taking 3 times as long as loading the document from a file.  Python 
should be fast!  The application is a simple card-file program that can 
also open mbox files as cards.  I am using a 50 MB test file from a Mac 
that loads in about 4 seconds on my computer (wow!), and was decoding in 
about 13 seconds.  Now it takes 2 seconds to decode or encode.

Python developers are working on faster Charmap codecs for a future 
version of Python.  Fastcharmap may be useful until then, and shouldn't 
cause any problems when the new codecs are available.

As this is my first Python module, I'd like some experienced module 
authors and packagers to comment on it, before I make it into cheese.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From eric.pederson at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 15:39:18 2005
From: eric.pederson at gmail.com (EP)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 12:39:18 -0700
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
In-Reply-To: <1130345595.405529.259110@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86vezk1khe.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130335059.740804.271010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130345595.405529.259110@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130441958.930684.319340@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

How does Python execute something like the following

oldPhrase="My dog has fleas on his knees"
newPhrase=oldPhrase.replace("fleas",
"wrinkles").replace("knees","face")

Does it do two iterations of the replace method on the initial and then
an intermediate string (my guess) -- or does it compile to something
more efficient (I doubt it, unless it's Christmas in Pythonville... but
I thought I'd query)



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 12 11:03:01 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:03:01 +0200
Subject: Very dumb question
In-Reply-To: <dij6ic$i64$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.1959.1129124379.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dij6ic$i64$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <434D25A5.5030603@designaproduct.biz>


>i. e. a character after a 'carriage return' ('\r') overwrites part of the
>string which therefore doesn't seem to grow. Try 
>
>print repr(data[:51]) 
>
>to see what's really in your data string.
>  
>
Yes, that was it! Thanks for you help. I thought it will be something 
obvious.
The server returned carriage returns in the HTML source code, and I 
tried to print that. :-)

   Les



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 25 12:13:36 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:13:36 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130253519.330211.92880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lsl50soghlt8f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <11lsmdg3mmfl9ee@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-25, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> It looks like it.  Though I've used custom tics in the past, it
> was never for time values.  Based on the help from gnuplot, I
> suspect you can get what you want without doing custom tics,
> but rather using the commands
>
>    set xdata time
>    set timefmt
>    set format x
>
> Interestingly, using Unix timestamps creates some sort of
> resolution problems.  The following ought to work but doesn't.
> It appears that there is some sort of resolution problem:
>
> ------------------------------8<------------------------------
> import Gnuplot,time,sys,math
>
> def pause():
>     sys.stdout.write("Press enter to continue: ")
>     sys.stdin.readline()
>
> def fgrid(start,stop,count):
>     for i in xrange(count):
>         yield start + ((stop-start)*i)/count
>
> start = time.time()
>
> xdata = [x for x in fgrid(0,600.0,10)]      # two minutes worth
> ydata = [math.sin(x/100.0) for x in xdata]
> data = Gnuplot.Data(xdata,ydata,with='linespoints',using=(1,2))
> gp = Gnuplot.Gnuplot(debug=1)
> gp.title('Data starting at %s' % time.asctime(time.gmtime(start+xdata[0])))
>
> # x axis will use default tics (seconds since start of run)
> gp.plot(data)
> pause()
>
> # same data with x value as Unix timestamps
>
> xdata = [x+start for x in xdata]
> print xdata
> data = Gnuplot.Data(xdata,ydata,with='linespoints',using=(1,2))
>
> gp('set xdata time')
> gp('set timefmt "%s')
> gp('set format x "%r"')
> gp('set xtics 120')
> gp.plot(data)
> pause()
> ------------------------------8<------------------------------

Yup.  Something in the Gnuplot module is broken.  Here's the
x data I'm passing it:

[1130256529.616158, 1130256589.616158, 1130256649.616158,
1130256709.616158, 1130256769.616158, 1130256829.616158,
1130256889.616158, 1130256949.616158, 1130257009.616158,
1130257069.616158]

And here's what it's passing to gnuplot

1130256512.0 0.0
1130256640.0 0.564642488956
1130256640.0 0.93203908205
1130256768.0 0.97384762764
1130256768.0 0.675463199615
1130256768.0 0.141120001674
1130256896.0 -0.442520439625
1130256896.0 -0.871575772762
1130257024.0 -0.996164619923
1130257024.0 -0.772764503956

It appears that the Gnuplot modules has coerced my data into
single-precision -- thus throwing away most of the resolution
on the x-axis.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From chris.lasher at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 07:39:36 2005
From: chris.lasher at gmail.com (Chris Lasher)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 04:39:36 -0700
Subject: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
In-Reply-To: <1129675547.108377.246320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2224.1129656465.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129663697.620665.99040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1129666797.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129675547.108377.246320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129721976.745281.64800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the replies, guys! I had no idea Vim was capable of doing
some of those things. The source browser in Vim is slick--I never would
have known about that. As far as the GDB goes, it doesn't look like it
has support for Python, but it's nice to know it's there for C if I get
the chance to learn that language. Where do you guys go to learn all
the capabilities of Vim? Just browsing through vim.org?

The PIDA site is back up and running. It looks like a real winner! I'll
have to download it and give it a whirl.

Thanks again,
Chris



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct  4 13:16:42 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 10:16:42 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128436552.877409.296480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128446202.858491.240700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
> So, we can safely say that Boo is "almost" a static python
> implementation. Wether you like or not, is another problem, but please,
> do not insist with your reiterative anti-boo ranting.

I can't comment on Boo beyond the documentation's description of the
language, but the question of what makes Python the language it is (or
was) - what one would need to add or remove to stop Python being Python
- remains very interesting. Boo appears to have some relatively simple
type inference (compared to things like Shedskin) and has various
static typing constraints presumably to fit the underlying virtual
machine. Seeing through the syntax, do such things keep it sufficiently
like Python? (Remember that Java looks like C++ but it has been
suggested that it is closer to Smalltalk in character.)

Looking not very far down the description of Boo's type inference [1]
reveals some pretty fundamentally different semantics, although one
could argue that they are "better" according to some criteria. I'd
argue, considering other evidence, that Boo isn't enough like Python to
be a kind of Python - not necessarily a criticism, though, but an
observation. Meanwhile, the temptation to add similar type annotations
to Python should be resisted, in my view, since the book certainly
isn't closed on alternative strategies for compile-time checking and
program optimisation.

Paul

[1] http://boo.codehaus.org/Type+Inference



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Oct 11 08:27:48 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:27:48 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1796.1128872448.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102238590.18783@urchin.earth.li>
	<7xwtkk6hr4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <wzy8509r23.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> (PR) wrote:

>PR> Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:

>PR> That's misleading, I'd say a closure is a combination of a function
>PR> (executable code) and a lexical environment 
[snip]
>PR> This is all described in SICP (mitpress.mit.edu/sicp).  

Where the word closure is used for something completely different (it
mentions that others use the word closure as we do here).
:=(
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From saddle at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 21:24:38 2005
From: saddle at gmail.com (saddle at gmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 18:24:38 -0700
Subject: forum
In-Reply-To: <1128272422.987128.295820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128272422.987128.295820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128302678.746821.24240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

is there any forum writen by python like vbb...phped



From belred at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 21:07:55 2005
From: belred at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:07:55 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <11lin723i0e3k80@corp.supernews.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>	<3nc*FXJ1q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
	<11lin723i0e3k80@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <djc3db$m12$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ed Jensen wrote:
> Sion Arrowsmith <siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> 
>>I have here a library (it's the client side of a client-server
>>interface including a pile of class definitions) which has
>>implementations in pure C++, Java and Python, taking about 3000,
>>3500 and 1500 loc respectively. And there's an associated module
>>(with no C++ implementation) that I remember being particular
>>"impressed" while writing it to find being 3 times as long in Java
>>as Python despite (a) extensive (and pretty much common) Javadoc/
>>docstrings and (b) implementing in the Python version a feature
>>present in the standard Java library (scheduling a thread to run
>>at specified intervals and time out). Strip the Javadoc/docstrings
>>out and it's about at that 5:1 ratio.
> 
> 
> This claim seems pretty dubious to me.

i would not say sion's ratio of 5:1 is dubious.  for what it's worth, i've 
written i pretty complex program in jython over the last year.  jython compiles 
to java source code and the number of generated java lines to the jython lines 
is 4:1.

bryan



From bonono at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 06:00:10 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 03:00:10 -0700
Subject: How can I call a subclass method from parent class ?
In-Reply-To: <1129798854.968065.99860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129780540.378921.269250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129798854.968065.99860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129802410.942839.268480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

thanks, it works. Though I don't quite understand what super(cls,cls)
returns, and it doesn't work if I do a super(cls,cls).foo(). But
cls.__base__.foo() do the trick.

thankfully, I don't have multiple inheritance.

Jason  Lai wrote:
> If you use a newstyle class, e.g. class A(object), then you can get the
> superclass with cls.__base__. You could also use super(cls,cls),
> although note that it returns a <super> object that isn't exactly the
> same thing as a class -- but good enough for just accessing attributes.
>
> Make sure to check that your superclass isn't <object>, otherwise it'll
> complain about <object> not having a foo attribute. __base__ is
> probably easier for this purpose. Also be careful with multiple
> inheritance.
> 
> No such thing as __super though.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 05:13:26 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:13:26 +0100
Subject: Confused with module and .py files
In-Reply-To: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4C@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4C@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <di05fe$mle$1@sea.gmane.org>

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
> Actually I am bit confused between the modules and .py file
> How do I differentiate between the 2.
> 
> For example
> I have a file import1.py, import2.py file
> Which has few functions and classes
> And if I have a class with same name "BaseClass" in both the file
> 
> How would I use it if I declare it as given below in my 3rd class
> 
> from import1.py import *
> from import2.py import *
> 
You can't do that. The "from module import *" mechanism explicitly 
defines names in the importing module's namespace, so if you use this 
technique to import two modules that define the same name you will 
inevitably find that the second import overwrites the duplicate name 
imported by the first import.

Note also that the ".py" should not be included in the import statement 
- the interpreter finds the appropriate code from the module name, so 
you should anyway be doing something like

   from import2 import *
   from import2 import *

It would be much better, though, to write:

   import import1
   import import2

Then you can refer to import1.BaseClass and import2.baseClass without 
getting any naming conflicts. In general the "from module import *" form 
should only be used under specific conditions, which we needn't discuss 
here now.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 18 15:39:45 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 19:39:45 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<vFb5f.3390$q%.768@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F395263F33castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Now, once more, why are standards" *more valuable* than
> "recommendations"? 

standards are written by internationally recognized independent 
organisations, v.s. everyone can write a recommendation. For you, and 
others this doesn't matter, for others it does. Why do you think Microsoft 
made part of .NET a standard? They could perfectly write up recommendations 
on .NET themselves, written drafts, or RFCs and leave it at that.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 02:12:24 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:12:24 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:50:07 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    The Microsoft agreement is also up front. It's not "imposed" in any 
>sense except that it's one of the conditions for buying Windows wholesale.

 No it was not .  It was never on paper.  It was not imposed until I
had been in business for at least 5 years.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 31 17:09:55 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:09:55 -0800
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<867jbt2xyb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dk64nk$dp0$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:867jbt2xyb.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> Another straw man. I'm not trying to oblitarate that difference

    No matter how many times I quote to you where you specifically do 
exactly this, you insist you aren't. Yes, you are. You equate metaphorical 
force with actual physical force. You say the difference doesn't matter 
because the end result can be the same. Why point out that what's important 
is that the end result is the same if you're not trying to obliterate the 
difference?

    Here's a quote from you:

>>>But in
>>>that case, the fact that I didn't use "force" against you is
>>>irrelevant to you - you're just as dead.

    Why point out that the difference is irrelevant if not to obliterate the 
difference? What possible other purpose could you have in that comment?

> I'm trying to find out why you regularly ignore that difference for
> everyone but MS.

    To substantiate that claim, you'd have to point to some cases where I 
talk about something other than MS. But if you do a little research, you'll 
find I'm completely consistent and have said similar things about numerour 
other entities.

    I consistently and always distinguish between the severe inter-personal 
wrongs (actual force, the threat of force, and fraud) and activities that do 
not fall into this category. I always complain loudly when people (such as 
you) seek to blur this distinction. Even the term "economic force" (used the 
way you use) it is an attempt to blur this distinction, because you equate 
the metaphorical use of market force with the actual use of coercive 
physical force.

    DS




From pc at p-cos.net  Mon Oct 10 09:05:09 2005
From: pc at p-cos.net (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:05:09 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
In-Reply-To: <3qv2fcFh459sU1@individual.net>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<3qv2fcFh459sU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <3qv785Fgvm1nU1@individual.net>

Ulrich Hobelmann wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> 
>> To sort a list in Python, use the ?sort? method. For example:
>>
>> li=[1,9,2,3];
>> li.sort();
>> print li;
> 
> Likewise in Common Lisp.  In Scheme there are probably packages for that 
> as well.  My apologies for not being very fluent anymore.
> 
> CL-USER> (setf list (sort '(1 9 2 3) #'<))    ; input
> (1 2 3 9)                    ; output

Careful. Common Lisp's sort function is specified to be destructive, so 
you shouldn't use it on literal constants. So don't say (sort '(1 9 2 3) 
...), say (sort (list 1 9 2 3) ...), etc.


Pascal

-- 
OOPSLA'05 tutorial on generic functions & the CLOS Metaobject Protocol
++++ see http://p-cos.net/oopsla05-tutorial.html for more details ++++


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Fri Oct 21 11:24:45 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:24:45 -0600
Subject: get a copy of a string leaving original intact
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F70@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

I ended up slicing my string into a new one, rather than trying to have
a copy of the string to alter in one case, or leave intact in another
case.

Thanks for the pointer on concatenating paths!




-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Fredrik Lundh
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 2:10 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: get a copy of a string leaving original intact

"Bell, Kevin" wrote:

> I'm having trouble with something that seems like it should be simple.
>
> I need to copy a file, say "abc-1.tif" to another directory, but if
it's
> in there already, I need to transfer it named "abc-2.tif" but I'm
going
> about it all wrong.
>
> Here's what doesn't work: (I'll add the copy stuff from shutil after
> figuring out the basic string manipulation.)

define "doesn't work".

> import os
>
> source = r"C:\Source"
> target = r"P:\Target"
>
> files = os.listdir(source)
>
> for f in files:
>     if os.path.isfile(target + "\\" + f):      # if it already exists
>         print f + " exists"
>         s = f                                  # i'd like a copy to
> alter
>         s = s.replace("-1", "-2")
>         print "Altered it to be " + s
>         print source + "\\" + s, target + "\\" + s

did you mean

        print source + "\\" + f, target + "\\" + s

?

>     else:
>         print f + " IS NOT THERE YET"
>         print source + "\\" + f, target + "\\" + f  # use the original
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

btw, note that

        source + "\\" + f

is better written as

        os.path.join(source, f)

e.g.

    for f in os.listdir(source):
        sourcefile = os.path.join(source, f)
        targetfile = os.path.join(target, f)
        if os.path.isfile(targetfile):
            targetfile = os.path.join(target, f.replace("-1", "-2"))
        print "copy", sourcefile, "to", targetfile
        shutil.copy(sourcefile, targetfile)

</F>



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From alexs at advfn.com  Fri Oct 21 08:03:29 2005
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:03:29 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <419B5484-49FA-4E17-AF47-E85EF0C3FEC2@advfn.com>


On 21 Oct 2005, at 09:31, Harald Armin Massa wrote:

> Casey,
>
>
>
>> I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
>> about
>> 10,000 lines in C++
>> it is about
>> 5,000 lines in Java
>> and it is about
>> 3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)
>>
>
> BTW: it is normally only 50 lines in Perl. Not that you could read it,
> though
>
> Harald
>

Perl is more like a CISC CPU. There are a million different commands.  
Python is more RISC like.
Line count comparisons = pointless.



From EP at zomething.com  Thu Oct  6 11:44:57 2005
From: EP at zomething.com (EP)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:44:57 -0800
Subject: CSV like file format featured recently in Daily Python URL?
In-Reply-To: <1128688213.7906.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1128688213.7906.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051006074457.284390699.EP@zomething.com>

> From: Alex Willmer <alex at moreati.org.uk> inquired

> I'm trying to track down the name of a file format and python module,
> that was featured in the Daily Python URL some time in the last month 
> or
> two.
> 
> The format was ASCII with a multiline header defining types for the
> comma seperated column data below. It may have had the capability to
> store multiple tables in one file. There was news on the homepage that
> an alternate 'no data here' syntax was also supported.
> 
> An example file had vaguely this structure:
> 
> columnname as datatype
> columnname as datatype
> columnname as datatype
> columnname as datatype
> 
> data,data,data,data
> data,"other data",data,data
> data,data,"",data


Was it something like ARFF?  http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~ml/weka/arff.html

Google "ARFF Python":  http://www.google.com/search?q=arff+python

-----------------------------------------------------

   % 1. Title: Iris Plants Database
   % 
   % 2. Sources:
   %      (a) Creator: R.A. Fisher
   %      (b) Donor: Michael Marshall (MARSHALL%PLU at io.arc.nasa.gov)
   %      (c) Date: July, 1988
   % 
   @RELATION iris

   @ATTRIBUTE sepallength  NUMERIC
   @ATTRIBUTE sepalwidth   NUMERIC
   @ATTRIBUTE petallength  NUMERIC
   @ATTRIBUTE petalwidth   NUMERIC
   @ATTRIBUTE class        {Iris-setosa,Iris-versicolor,Iris-virginica}
  

The Data of the ARFF file looks like the following:

   @DATA
   5.1,3.5,1.4,0.2,Iris-setosa
   4.9,3.0,1.4,0.2,Iris-setosa
   4.7,3.2,1.3,0.2,Iris-setosa
   4.6,3.1,1.5,0.2,Iris-setosa
   5.0,3.6,1.4,0.2,Iris-setosa
   5.4,3.9,1.7,0.4,Iris-setosa
   4.6,3.4,1.4,0.3,Iris-setosa
   5.0,3.4,1.5,0.2,Iris-setosa
   4.4,2.9,1.4,0.2,Iris-setosa
   4.9,3.1,1.5,0.1,Iris-setosa
  

Lines that begin with a % are comments. The @RELATION, @ATTRIBUTE and @DATA declarations are case insensitive. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Thu Oct 13 11:36:20 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:36:20 -0700
Subject: How to call a script from another?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2000.1129214734.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <434e6f56$0$90426$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.2000.1129214734.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434e7e85$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jaime Wyant wrote:
> I think this is the simplest way to do that:
> 
> import sys
> sys.path.append('/path/to/directory/containing/script')
> 
> import zopescript
> zopescript.main()
> 
> The code above assumes:
> o that the path you use to append contains an __init__.py in it...
I don't think this is necessary.  The __init__.py is necessary
if you do something like:
     import sys
     sys.path.append('/path/to/directory/containing')
     from script import zopescript
     zopescript.main()
     # or import zopescript.script; script.zopescript.main()
That is, if the directory ".../containing" needs to be interpreted as
a package.

If the script you want to call is in the same directory as the script
calling it (or any directory on the path), you can simply use:
     import zopescript
     zopescript.main()

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From dawenliu at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 16:00:48 2005
From: dawenliu at gmail.com (dawenliu at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 13:00:48 -0700
Subject: extracting numbers from a file, excluding fixed words
In-Reply-To: <4363c20c$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4363c20c$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1130616048.794287.111140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Kent.  The code looks reasonable, but the result is that, the
output file comes out identical as the input file, with all the xxxx
and yyyy remaining inside.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 19:34:59 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 01:34:59 +0200
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
References: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86ll15nri1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <di70n6$ua2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> I think it's time to form a Committee for the Prevention of Regular
> Expression Abuse.

on the other hand, the RE engine uses a more advanced scanning
algorithm than string find, which means that constant RE:s can in
fact be faster under some circumstances (certain patterns, target
strings with lots of false partial matches, etc).

see "searching for literal text" on this page

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-August/007797.html

for some figures.

(things have improved since then, especially in 2.4.  in 2.3, "in" was
also a lot slower than "find".  and all three are still slower than they
have to be: http://online.effbot.org/2004_08_01_archive.htm#find2 )

</F>





From dinamo99 at lycos.com  Sun Oct 23 19:49:48 2005
From: dinamo99 at lycos.com (Joe)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:49:48 GMT
Subject: how to count and extract images
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.23.51.26.381272@lycos.com>

I'm trying to get the location of the image uisng 

start = s.find('<a href="somefile') + len('<a
href="somefile') 
stop = s.find('">Save File</a></B>',
start) fileName = s[start:stop]
and then construct the url with the filename to download the image 
which works fine as cause every image has the Save File link and I can
count number of images easy the problem is when there is more than image I
try using while loop downlaod files, wirks fine for the first one but
always matches the same, how can count and thell the look to skip the fist
one if it has been downloaded and go to next one, and if next one is
downloaded go to next one, and so on.


From tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk  Thu Oct 20 07:24:30 2005
From: tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk (Toby Dickenson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:24:30 +0100
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <dj7svt$f99$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dj7svt$f99$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510201224.30934.tdickenson@devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk>

On Thursday 20 October 2005 11:53, Steve Holden wrote:

> Personally I'm still not convinced that your requirement reflects a 
> substantial use case (but then I'm getting used to that ;-). Just 
> because an ordering is partial that doesn't mean that two instances of a 
> class shouldn't be compared.

C++ has a cmp template function which can be implemented to define a total 
ordering for one type. This can be reliably used by implementations of 
ordered tree containers (for example) so that this container template class 
can only be instantiated for holding types that provide this comparison 
template function.

One disadvantage is that these template container classes can only hold one 
type.

ZODB's BTrees work in a similar way but use the regular python comparison 
function, and the lack of a guarantee of a total ordering can be a liability.
Described here in 2002, but I think same is true today:
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zodb-dev/2002-February/002304.html

A BTree might contain two objects that are incomparable. That is, they raise 
an exception when compared. However the user will not know this if by 
coincidence the BTree implementation has never needed to compare these two 
objects.

Now removing a third object from the container such that these two 
incomparable objects are adjacent in the BTree. There is a possibility that 
an exception might be raised when *reading* content from the BTree, since the 
BTree implementation now might need to compare this pair of objects.

> What would you have Python do when the programmer tries to perform an 
> invalid comparison (i.e. what are the exact semantics imposed when 
> __cmp__() returns None/raises an exception)?

Its too late to handle this by the time a specific comparison method of an 
individual object is being called. If you need a total ordering across a 
domain of objects then you need to involve some representation of that domain 
as a whole. 


-- 
Toby Dickenson


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 03:55:29 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:55:29 +0200
Subject: Scope problem with nested functions.
References: <9355218C54DDFF4CA43FC31AEB6FB0EC5B102C@iti00-exc01.iti.arabbank.plc>
Message-ID: <dil3tc$cjs$1@sea.gmane.org>

<AddisonN at iti-ab.com> wrote

> I'm having trouble resolving a scope problem. I have a module,
> called from another script, with this structure:

the code you posted gives a syntax error.  if I fix that, and add some
boilerplate to call getCcyMappings from inside the parseFile function,
I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "script.py", line 19, in ?
    parseFile(0, 0, 0)
  File "script.py", line 17, in parseFile
    getCcyMappings()
  File "script.py", line 8, in getCcyMappings
    ccyMappings['CAN'] = ['CAD'] # for example.
NameError: global name 'ccyMappings' is not defined

which tells you that there is no *global* variable named ccyMappings.

the ccyMappings variable in your example isn't a global variable; it's local
to the parseFile function, and can be accessed from that function and any
inner functions via normal lexical scoping rules (=access, but not rebind).

however, the global statement tells Python that the given name is a global
variable, and that any attempts to access or rebind that variable should be
done at the global (=module) level.

if you remove the global statement, Python will look for variables using
ordinary lexical scoping, and things will work as expected.

</F> 





From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 14:54:21 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:54:21 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86irvo861u.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> David claimed that everyone had a right to do whatever they wanted
> with their property. This is simply false throughout most of the
> civilized world - zoning laws control what kinds of business you can
> run on your property, various laws designed to control the looks of
> the town dictate what you can do to the exterior or lawn, flood and
> earthquake laws state what kinds of structural changes you can make,
> and so on. I took the view of a political extremist to point out that
> he was wrong. David predictably used that to tar me as an extremist
> from the other end of the spectrum.

    Here's a question for you, Mike. Presumably, you have the right not to 
be shot for no reason at all. Does that right act as a bulletproof vest that 
actually physically prevents me from shooting you? If I argued that a person 
had a right not to be shot for no reason at all by a random stranger, would 
you point out that such shootings occur throughout the civilized world as 
some kind of refutation?

    The way you respond to what I'm saying shows that you really don't have 
any clue whatsoever of what the words I'm using *mean*. Do you even know 
what a "right" is? (Such that, for example, it's possible for rogue 
governments to violate the rights of their citizens even if those 
governments don't recognize those rights.)

    DS




From walter at livinglogic.de  Wed Oct 12 08:19:46 2005
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:19:46 +0200
Subject: Need a spider library
In-Reply-To: <434CE752.8030509@designaproduct.biz>
References: <434CE752.8030509@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <434CFF62.8050201@livinglogic.de>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

> [...]
> For example this malformed link:
> 
> <a href="page.html>Sample link</a>
> 
> could be converted to:
> 
> ['page.html','http://samplesite.current_location/page.html','Samle link']

Your options AFAIK are:
* Beautiful Soup (http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/)
* Various implementations of tidy (uTidyLib, mxTidy)
* XIST (http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist)

For XIST code that extracts the above info from a HTML page looks like this:
--------
import sys
from ll import url
from ll.xist import parsers
from ll.xist.ns import html

def links(u):
    node = parsers.parseURL(u, tidy=True, base=None)
    for x in node//html.a:
       yield str(x["href"]), str(u/str(x["href"])), unicode(x)

for data in links(url.URL(sys.argv[1])):
    print data
--------
This outputs something like:

('http://www.python.org/', 'http://www.python.org/', u'\r\n    ')
('http://www.python.org/search/', 'http://www.python.org/search/', 
u'Search')
('http://www.python.org/download/', 'http://www.python.org/download/', 
u'Download')
('http://www.python.org/doc/', 'http://www.python.org/doc/', 
u'Documentation')
...

Hope that helps,
    Walter D?rwald


From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 14:00:31 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 11:00:31 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Frame Size
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2681.1130521718.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130521112.659385.148750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2681.1130521718.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130522431.305985.89720@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Okay. I have alot of items that are put on the basic frame already,
using a grid method. Will this change anything?



From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 13:35:34 2005
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (mirandacascade at yahoo.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 10:35:34 -0700
Subject: find() method in ElementTree
Message-ID: <1130002534.912055.68510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I do not understand how to use the find() method in ElementTree.

The file 'sample.xml' is:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<SampleRoot>
    <Header>
        <Product>FindMystery</Product>
    </Header>
    <SpecificInformation>
        <SampleDetail>abc</SampleDetail>
    </SpecificInformation>
</SampleRoot>

>>> from elementtree.ElementTree import ElementTree
>>> doc = ElementTree(file='sample.xml')
>>> iterList = doc.getiterator()
>>> iterList
[<Element SampleRoot at 1166850>, <Element Header at 1166878>, <Element
Product at 11668a0>, <Element SpecificInformation at 1166940>, <Element
SampleDetail at 1166990>]
>>> len(iterList)
5
>>> element = iterList[4]
>>> element.tag
'SampleDetail'
>>> x = doc.find('SampleDetail')
>>> if x == None:
... 	print 'x is none'
...
x is none
>>>

The ElementTree documentation indicates that:
"find(pattern) returns the first subelement that matches the given
pattern, or None if there is no matching element."

and

"the pattern argument can either be a tag name, or a path expression"

Based on the following snippet from the interactive window:

>>> doc = ElementTree(file='sample.xml')
>>> iterList = doc.getiterator()
>>> element = iterList[4]
>>> element.tag
'SampleDetail'

I inferred (perhaps incorrectly) that within doc there is a subelement
with a tag 'SampleDetail'.

Based on the following snippet:

>>> x = doc.find('SampleDetail')
>>> if x == None:
... 	print 'x is none'
...
x is none

I conclude that there is no subelement in doc with a tag
'SampleDetails'.

My questions:
1) in the example above is there a subelement of doc with a tag
'SampleDetails'?
2) if so, what is the proper way of writing the call to the find()
method to locate that subelement?



From google at shawndyer.com  Fri Oct 14 12:04:03 2005
From: google at shawndyer.com (shawn)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:04:03 -0700
Subject: Problems with properties
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <1129305843.213100.179210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I was thinking that in Python2.4, all class definitions inherited from
new-style classes. There may be a bug here. I can make your code work
as expected by changing the class definition to:

class Task(object):


with that change, the assignment raises an attribute error. You could
also accomplish the same thing by eliminating the setNothing method and
defining your property as:

command=property(getCommand)

or for a really simple case like this, you could even leave off the
getCommand function and define the property as:

command=property(lambda self: self._command)

(although I am sure personal tastes vary as to style here).



From dannypatterson at comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 13:20:35 2005
From: dannypatterson at comcast.net (dannypatterson at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:20:35 +0000
Subject: Learning Python
Message-ID: <101020051720.20670.434AA2E3000A3AD2000050BE220588644202019C9D0A9B9B0E9F9702020E0B@comcast.net>

I would suggest buying Beginning Python: Novice to Professional, by Magnus hetland. It is IMO the best Python book written to date. This book this mailing-list and Python.org are all you should need. 


> I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at 
> learning how to program in Python.  Here's a list of the places I've 
> bookmarked:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/ and more specifically
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
> http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
> http://www.python.org/topics/
> 
> I'm looking for additional resources (links, names of books, 
> whatever...) that you think may help me out.
> 
> I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know 
> procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and 
> polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as I've 
> written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a primer in 
> OO programming).
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> paul
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From http  Fri Oct  7 22:13:27 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 19:13:27 -0700
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x4q7szrg8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Ivan Shevanski" <darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com> writes:
> choice1 = raw_input("> ")

choice1 is now the whole string that the user types

> Is there a way (I searched for a module but didnt find one) that I can
> do something like this?
> 
> if choice1 in ('1', 'S', 's'):
>     #do first option

You'd use choice1[0] to get the first letter of choice1.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 23:21:35 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:21:35 -0700
Subject: fun with lambdas
In-Reply-To: <e6507ac70510202015q447bd244w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e6507ac70510202015q447bd244w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dj9ms0$ei4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Juan Pablo Romero wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> given the definition
> 
> def f(a,b): return a+b
> 
> With this code:
> 
> fs = [ lambda x: f(x,o) for o in [0,1,2]]
> 
> or this
> 
> fs = []
> for o in [0,1,2]:
>     fs.append( lambda x: f(x,o) )
> 
> I'd expect that fs contains partial evaluated functions, i.e.
> 
> fs[0](0) == 0
> fs[1](0) == 1
> fs[2](0) == 2
> 
> But this is not the case :(
> 
> What is happening here?

Namespaces. The functions are looking up o at runtime. In both cases, o
is bound to the last object in [0,1,2] once the iteration is finished.

Try this (although I'm sure there are better ways):

In [4]: fs = [lambda x, o=o: f(x, o) for o in [0,1,2]]

In [5]: fs[0](0)
Out[5]: 0

In [6]: fs[0](1)
Out[6]: 1

In [7]: fs[0](2)
Out[7]: 2

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 15:08:39 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:08:39 +0100
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
In-Reply-To: <1128538344.802444@nntp.acecape.com>
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>	<di0rmd$uln$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
	<1128538344.802444@nntp.acecape.com>
Message-ID: <di18bg$huq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Unknown wrote:
> For example this is what I am trying to do that is not working.
> 
> The contents of link is the reuters web page, containing
> 
> "/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&amp;amp;storyID=2005-10-05T151245Z_01_HO548006_RTRUKOC_0_UK-AIRLINES-BA.xml"
> 
> link = link.replace('&amp;amp;','&')
> 
> But if I now view the the contents link it shows it the same as when it 
> was assigned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard Brodie wrote:
> 
>>"Mike" <no at spam> wrote in message news:1128522921.72009 at nntp.acecape.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>>However when I pull it into python the URL ends up looking like this
>>>(notice the &amp; instead of just & in the URL)
>>>
>>>Any ideas?
>>
>>
>>Some code would be helpful: the "&amp;" is in the page source to start
>>with (which is as it ought to be). What are you using to parse the HTML?
>>
>>
You must be doing *something* wrong:

  >>> link = 
"/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&amp;amp;storyID=2005-10-05T151245Z_01_HO548006_RTRUKOC_0_UK-AIRLINES-BA.xml"
  >>> link = link.replace('&amp;amp;','&')
  >>> link
'/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID=2005-10-05T151245Z_01_HO548006_RTRUKOC_0_UK-AIRLINES-BA.xml'
  >>>

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From http  Fri Oct  7 07:53:17 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 04:53:17 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1128676408.129888.297840@g
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
> use assert as the soonest possible point.  implementing "type gates" is
> trivial, if you think you need them.

What this is about (to me at least) is the edit-debug cycle.  Let's
say I write some Python code, using assert to validate datatypes.
Maybe I've made 4 errors.  I then write a test function and run it.
Boom, the first assert fails.  I fix the first error, run again.
Boom, the next assert fails.  Fix the next error, run again, boom,
fix, etc.  Four edit-debug cycles.

With static typing, I run the compiler, get 4 error messages, fix all
4, and can get on with the next phase of testing with three fewer edit
cycles.  That's a definite benefit of languages like Java.  It's not
imaginary.  Unit tests on Python code don't make it go away.  I have
less Java experience than Python experience by now, but I still find
that Java programs take me fewer iterations to get working than Python
programs.  The trouble is that Java has a thousand deficiencies that
outweigh that particular benefit, so overall I like Python a lot
better anyway.

Now some of the Python-is-perfect crowd seems to suffer from a "Blub
paradox" (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BlubParadox).  They see annoying,
static typed languages like C and Java, and they see pleasant,
dynamically typed languages like Python, and conclude that static
types = annoying, when in fact they can be orthogonal.  So, can there
be a language that's both statically typed, and pleasant?  I haven't
used one yet, but lately I've been reading about Haskell and want to
give it a try.  I keep finding statements like:

    To me, Haskell is what Python should have evolved to. As a long-time
    Python programmer, I have been very, very pleased with Haskell and am
    currently working on porting my code to it (and write new code in
    Haskell at every opportunity).
       (http://supybot.com/Members/jemfinch/haskell-sucks/document_view)

or:

    Using Haskell to develop OpenAFP.hs led to programs that eat constant
    2MB memory, scale linearly, and are generally 2OOM faster than my Perl
    library.

    Oh, and the code size is 1/10.
       (http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2005/03/03/pugs_interview.html -
        Autrijus also raves about how great the book "Types and
        Programming Languages" supposedly is--I'm trying to borrow
        a copy.  Yeah, this is a Perl comparison, but I think of
        Perl as being roughly equivalent to Python except a lot uglier).

or:

    Haskell is the least-broken programming language available today. C,
    C++, Perl, Python, Java, and all the other languages you've heard of
    are all much more broken, so debating their merits is pointless. :-)
    Unfortunately Real Life involves dealing with brokenness.
       (http://www106.pair.com/rhp/books.html)

or:
    
    In conducting the independent design review at Intermetrics, there
    was a significant sense of disbelief.  We quote from [CHJ93]: "It
    is significant that Mr. Domanski, Mr. Banowetz and Dr. Brosgol
    were all surprised and suspicious when we told them that Haskell
    prototype P1 (see appendix B) is a complete tested executable
    program.  We provided them with a copy of P1 without explaining
    that it was a program, and based on preconceptions from their past
    experience, they had studied P1 under the assumption that it was a
    mixture of requirements specification and top level design.  They
    were convinced it was incomplete because it did not address issues
    such as data structure design and execution order."
       (http://haskell.org/papers/NSWC/jfp.ps - this was from a bake-off
       for a military application where the Haskell solution had 85 lines
       of code to Ada's 767, C++'s 1105, and Relational Lisp's 274). 

Obviously I'm in the usual rose-colored-glasses phase of finding out
about something new and interesting, but I can't help thinking these
guys are onto something.  Quite a few of the Haskell Cafe mailing list
members seem to have come to Haskell from Python.  (Haskell tutorial:
http://www.isi.edu/~hdaume/htut/ - I've read most of this and it looks
pretty cool--definitely a steeper learning curve than Python but the
result looks a lot more powerful).


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 17 17:36:16 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:36:16 GMT
Subject: ordered keywords?
In-Reply-To: <3ric96Fjni97U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<3ric96Fjni97U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <kPU4f.18198$ae.11760@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Ron Adam wrote:
> 
>>
>> Is there a way to preserve or capture the order which keywords are given?
>>
>>  >>> def foo(**kwds):
>> ...    print kwds
>> ...
>>  >>> foo(one=1, two=2, three=3)
>> {'three': 3, 'two': 2, 'one': 1}
>>
>>
>> I would love to reverse the *args, and **kwds as well so I can  use 
>> kwds to set defaults and initiate values and args to set the order of 
>> expressions.
>>
>>
>> def foo(**__dict__, *args):
>>       print args
>>
>> print foo(x=10, y=20, x, y, x+y)
>> [10, 20, 30]
> 
> 
> This is not simply about reversing the order of kwargs and args - this 
> would require that keyword args would create bindings to variable names 
> in the scope of the caller. Which is an enterily different beast. And a 
> major semantic change in python, so it's not possible or at least not 
> happening before Python 3K.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Diez

Yes, I kind of thought it would be pretty major.  What I'm asking is how 
to get anything close to this behavior in the current Python 2.4 now 
either with functions or with class's.  Or a way to generalize it in a 
nested data structure.  But that runs into similar problems of self 
reference.

I think the idea of putting the initialization first fits a lot of data 
patterns.  But I really don't know how the best way to implement that 
would be.

I was hoping it just might be possible (for P3k?) to have an argument 
list look to itself before looking to the caller, and then to globals 
after that.  And not create additional binding in the caller name space. 
  I think that would mean pre-creating the callee name space so it can 
be accessed by later terms in the argument list before control and the 
name space is handed over to the function.  I think this would be 
earlier evaluation instead of the late evaluation some want.


<clipped examples of possible stuff and jump to the interesting part>


def lamb(args):
     for v in args: print v

def feedlamb():
     print locals()
     lamb( (lambda x=10, y=20: (x,y,x+y))() )
     print locals()

feedlamb()

{}
10
20
30
{}


AND... (!?)


def lamb(args):
     for v in args: print v

def feedlamb():
     print locals()
     y = 20
     lamb( (lambda x=10: (x,y,x+y))() )
     print locals()

feedlamb()

{}
10
20
30
{'y': 20}


Cool, this is the exact behavior I was thinking of, but without the 
lambda if possible, and without all the extra parentheses.  Anyway to 
clean this up?

Maybe it wouldn't be as big a change as it seems?  ;-)

Cheers,
    Ron






From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 01:47:41 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:47:41 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>> So, your observations about Burger King are irrelevant to Microsoft.

>>     Because the error I'm correcting is the belief that Microsoft's
>> conduct was extremely unusual (unlike anything any reputable company
>> had ever done, essentially).

> MS's monopolistic conduct was uncommon, but not so extremely unusual
> as to be unheard of.  Congress had indeed seen conduct like that
> before, which is why it saw the need for passing laws against it.

    But there is no law against that type of conduct, *unless* you are a 
monopolist. So your conclusion hinges on the determination that Microsoft 
had a monopoly, and that hinges on the definition of the "market". That's a 
different can of worms for a different part of this thread.

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 03:34:27 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:34:27 +0100
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <di58ds$5eq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Timothy Smith wrote:
> i try to run my app and i get this
> 
> %python DutyShift.py
> error
> 
> 
> thats it. thats the error. mya pp was previously working, and i did make 
> some fairly large changes to it, but i'd expect a more descriptive 
> message then just "error". anyidea where i need to start looking?

I would look inside *your* program! I don't ever remember Python 
producing any message so terse and unhelpful.

A way to check this would be to run python interactively and enter the 
statement

import DutyShift

though this won't necessarily run all the logic that gets run by your 
command.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 18 15:34:26 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 19:34:26 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<2u59l1555jubv8qv09q57qh8m4skei9dqi@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F313F71494Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<3tc9l11oejnq3i2hnrld7akujouk3771tv@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F38418ADF38castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<iHb5f.3391$q%.177@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F3943F84161castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F38418ADF38castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 Oct 2005 06:57:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
>>> or quoted :
>>>
>>>>>>That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML
>>>>>>recommendation by w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things,
>>>>>>and mixing them up by calling both standards is a bad thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because ... what are the consequences?
>>>>
>>>>If you mean if you are put in jail for 20 years, and tortured, none.
>>>
>>> No. ANY consequences.  You have not explained the downside.
>>
>> ISO HTML and HTML 4.01 differ. If you were asked to write a
>> validating parser for the HTML standard, (as in ISO), and you wrote
>> one for HTML 4.01 (as in recommendation), you made quite a mistake.
> 
> There are standards that conflict, and also recommendations that
> conflict. Why is confusing standard A with recommendation P worse than
> 
> 1.  confusing standard A with  standard B, or
> 2.  confusing recommendation P with  recommendation Q

Calling a recommendation a standard might confuse it with the actual ISO 
standard. Imagine one buys a validating parser that states "SUPPORTS ALL 
STANDARDS", and they actually meant it supports all w3c recommendations.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 11 03:12:20 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:12:20 -0400
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8664s4zfvv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"mystilleef at gmail.com" <mystilleef at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> A user of my application points me to a behavior in gVim,
> the text editor, that I would like to implement in my
> application.
>
> When gVim is launched from a shell terminal, it completely
> frees the terminal. You can continue to use the terminal for
> whatever purpose you wish, including closing and exiting it,
> without any effect on the running gVim instance.
>
> How do I implement this in my application written in python?
> I would like to believe it does not involve me forking my
> application in a new process. Maybe there is signal I can
> send to the operating system to achieve this, right?

Several things need to happen. 

First, you need to take yourself out of the session you are in. To do
that, you use the setsid system call. This is available in python as
os.setsid.

Last, you need to detach your process from the terminal. You do that
by closing all the file descriptors you have that reference it. stdin,
stdout and stderr should do the trick. The standard trick is to set
set them to /dev/null. This has to happen last, so that if there are
problems in the second step, writing to stderr about it does some
good.

Second, you need to tell the shell that launched you that it can
continue. The standard way to do this is to fork your process, and
have the parent exit. That causes the parent shell to think your
process is dead, and so forget about it completely. There are other
ways to do this, but they aren't as reliable.

The easy way to do all these things - from C, anyway - is with
daemon(3). That isn't wrapped as part of the Python library. The
easiest way to solve your problem may be write a wrapper for that
call. If daemon exists on enough systems, submitting your wrapper as a
patch to the os modulee would be appropriate.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Tue Oct  4 17:51:09 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:51:09 -0600
Subject: PythonWin: Change background color
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F05@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

Does anyone know of a way to change the background color of the
PythonWin windows from the blinding white, to another color, like the
way MS Word will allow a dark blue background with white text?  I know
you can specify colors for all the different style of text via
View/Options/Format, but I see nothing for the window itself.

Kevin Bell



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct  5 03:32:35 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:32:35 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk70cj.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-04, Mike Meyer schreef <mwm at mired.org>:
> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>> Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Declarations also allow easier writable closures. Since the declaration
>> happens at a certain scope, the run time can easily find the correct
>> scope when a variable is rebound.
>
> If it happens at runtime, then you can do it without declarations:
> they're gone by then.

That depends on how they are implemented. "declarations" can be
executable statements.

It is not about can we do without or not. It is about are they
helpfull or not. Python would be a whole different language
if it never adapted something it could do without.

> Come to think of it, most functional languages -
> which are the languages that make the heaviest use of closures - don't
> require variable declarations.

But AFAIK they don't work like python which makes any variable
that is assigned to in a function, local. Which is a problem
if you want a writable closure.

>> They also relieve a burden from the run-time, since all variables
>> are declared, the runtime doesn't has to check whether or not
>> a variable is accesible, it knows it is.
>
> Not in a dynamic language. Python lets you delete variables at run
> time, so the only way to know if a variable exists at a specific
> point during the execution of an arbitrary program is to execute the
> program to that point.

It is not perfect, that doesn't mean it can't help. How much code
deletes variables.

>> And if you provide type information with the declaration, more
>> efficient code can be produced.
>
> Only in a few cases. Type inferencing is a well-understood
> technology, and will produce code as efficient as a statically type
> language in most cases.

I thought it was more than in a few. Without some type information
from the coder, I don't see how you can infer type from library
code.

>> I think language matters shouldn't be setlled by personal preferences.
>
> I have to agree with that. For whether or not a feature should be
> included, there should either be a solid reason dealing with the
> functionality of the language - meaning you should have a set of use
> cases showing what a feature enables in the language that couldn't be
> done at all, or could only be done clumsily, without the feature.

I think this is too strict. Decorators would IMO never made it.
The old way to do it, was certainly not clumsy IME.

I think that a feature that could be helpfull in reduction
errors, should be a candidate even if it has no other merrits.

> Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
> effect the programing process.

It would be one way to get writable closures in the language.
That is added functionality.

> And we have conflicting claims about
> whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
> solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
> personal preferences.

Whether the good effect is good enough is certainly open for debate.
But the opponents seem to argue that since it is no absolute guarantee,
it is next to useless. Well I can't agree with that kind of argument
and will argue against it.

> Antoon, at a guess I'd say that Python is the first time you've
> encountered a dynamnic language. Being "horrified" at not having
> variable declarations, which is a standard feature of such languages
> dating back to the 1950s, is one such indication.

No I'm not horrified at not having variable declarations. I'm in
general very practical with regard to programming, and use what
features a language offers me. However that doesn't stop me from
thinking: Hey if language X would have feature F from language Y,
that could be helpfull.

Now if the developers think such a feature is not important enough
fine, by me. It is however something different if people start
arguing that feature F is totally useless. Now my impression is
that a number of people regard python or at least some aspects
of it as holy and that suggesting that some specific features
could be usefull is considered sacriledge. 

> Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
> paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
> compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
> level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
> experienced with something like Pascal would consider
> essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.

I think we should get rid of thinking about a language as
static or dynamic. It is not the language which should determine
a static or dynamic approach, it is the problem you are trying
to solve. And if the coder thinks that a static approach is
best for his problem, why shouldn't he solve it that way.

That a language allows a static approach too, doesn't contradict
that it can work dynamically. Everytime a static feature is
suggested, some dynamic folks react as if the dynamic aspect
of python is in perril.

> Given these kinds of differences, prior experience is *not* a valid
> reason for thinking that some difference must be wrong. Until you have
> experience with the language in question, you can't really decide that
> some feature being missing is intolerable. You're in the same position
> as the guy who told me that a language without a goto would be
> unusable based on his experience with old BASIC, FORTRAN IV and
> assembler.

There seems to be some misunderstanding, I don't remember stating that
missing declarations are intolerable, I certainly dont think so. I
wouldn't be programming in python for over five years now if I
thought so. But that doesn't mean having the possibilty to
declare is useless.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From nszabolcs at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 05:55:04 2005
From: nszabolcs at gmail.com (Szabolcs Nagy)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 02:55:04 -0700
Subject: How to translate python into C
In-Reply-To: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130493304.961498.226200@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

python creates bytecode (like java classes)


you cannot translate python directly to c or machine code, but there
are some projects you probably want to look into


Pypy is a python implemetation in python and it can be used to
translate a python scrip to c or llvm code. (large project, work in
progress)
http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/news.html


Shedskin translates python code to c++ (not all language features
supported)
http://shed-skin.blogspot.com/


Pyrex is a nice language where you can use python and c like code and
it translates into c code. (it is useful for creating fast python
extension modules or a python wrapper around an existing c library)
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/



From paschalis at interia.pl  Mon Oct 31 18:17:05 2005
From: paschalis at interia.pl (dale cooper)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 15:17:05 -0800
Subject: Tkinter problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2735.1130769768.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130761580.552145.167340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2735.1130769768.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130800625.796277.222980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, but I've got another question:

can't find Tcl configuration script "tclConfig.sh"

This is what I received trying to install TkBLT. What is tclConfig.sh?
I did installed tcl/tk 8.4.9-3 as I mentioned before, I tried to find
this file, but I don't have it in my filesystem. How to get it?



From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Oct 10 01:57:11 2005
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:57:11 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.58.0510090915350.21577@excalibur>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510090915350.21577@excalibur>
Message-ID: <necp13-f97.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Rich Teer wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Roedy Green wrote:
> 
>>Normally you send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.
>>That is far more convenient for the technopeasant receiver than
>>dealing with multiple attachments.
> 
> And even more convenient is "Hey grandma, check out the latest
> photos on my web site: www.example.com/rich/photos".

In principle you're right but you forgot:
"And hey grandma, use this account name and this password for accessing
this web page."

Ciao, Michael.


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 10:36:37 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:36:37 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> "Eike Preuss" <mail at eikepreuss.de> wrote in message 
> news:3s6l8mFmj3fjU1 at individual.net...

>> Shouldn't it be my right as a seller, to decide that I want to sell an
>> operating system 'that nobody wants' _as well as_ operating systems that
>> 'everybody wants'?

>     Yes, it certainly is. However, it is also Microsoft's right as a seller 
> to refuse discounts to those who also sell competing products. You may not 

No it is not their "right"! That would be a discriminatory practice,
not to mention an anti-competitive practice. Totally.

Peter


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Mon Oct 31 13:40:54 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:40:54 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051031184054.GD2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 31, dudufigueiredo at gmail.com wrote:
> I have one folder containing mp3 files, the folder is:
> C:\My Shared Folder\Rubber Soul
> 
> And the files are:
> 03 you won't see me.mp3
> .
> 
> I'm trying to rename files to:
> The Beatles - You Won't See Me.mp3
> .

My first suggestion is that you make better changes while you're
taking the effort to rename.  I.e., don't use spaces or apostrophes
(or other shell-unfriendly characters) in file names (though some
might disagree with me on this religious issue).  So for your case a
more parse-able/useful translation might be:

    The_Beatles_-_You_Wont_See_Me.mp3

> So I need to change the file number to "The Beatles -"

You'll probably want to use "re" for this.  In a loop over
your glob'd files, something like:

    re.sub(r'^\d\d\s', r'The Beatles - ', ...)

> and Capitalize the name.

If you avoid the apostrophe, then 'you wont see me'.title() will do
the Right Thing.

> I was trying to create a function and using glob and rename, but i
> had no sucsses... Could somebody help me please,

You should post the solution you've attempted to write if you want help
fixing it.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 19:41:42 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:41:42 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.29.22.49.02.45985@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h57cu1.1jywbjibu87obN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
   ...
> I should also point out that for really serious work, the idiom:
> 
> f = file("parrot")
> handle(f)
> f.close()
> 
> is insufficiently robust for production level code. That was a detail I
> didn't think I needed to drop on the original newbie poster, but depending
> on how paranoid you are, or how many exceptions you want to insulate the
> user from, something like this might be needed:
> 
> try:
>     f = file("parrot")
>     try:
>         handle(f)
>     finally:
>         try:
>             f.close()
>         except:
>             print "The file could not be closed; see your sys admin."
> except:
>     print "The file could not be opened."

The inner try/finally is fine, but both the try/except are total, utter,
unmitigated disasters: they will hide a lot of information about
problems, let the program continue in a totally erroneous state, give
mistaken messages if handle(f) causes any kind of error totally
unrelated to opening the file (or if the user hits control-C during a
lengthy run of handle(f)), emit messages that can erroneously end up in
the redirected stdout of your program... VERY, VERY bad things.

Don't ever catch and ``handle'' exceptions in such ways.  In particular,
each time you're thinking of writing a bare 'except:' clause, think
again, and you'll most likely find a much better approach.


Alex


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct 19 19:23:34 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:23:34 +1000
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11ld9qtgvead8d0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.19.23.23.34.109772@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:06:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

>> Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?
> 
> Python doesn't have variables.
> 
> Python has objects of various types.  You can bind 0 or more
> names an object.

I frequently use "variable" as a synonym for "name" when talking about
Python code. Do people think I am wrong to do so?


-- 
Steven.



From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Oct  9 19:17:48 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:17:48 -0400
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20051009231748.3914.1168572522.divmod.quotient.26118@ohm>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:00:04 +0300 (EEST), Ville Voipio <vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi> wrote:
>I would need to make some high-reliability software
>running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
>(or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.
>
>The piece of software is rather simple, probably a
>few hundred lines of code in Python. There is a need
>to interact with network using the socket module,
>and then probably a need to do something hardware-
>related which will get its own driver written in
>C.
>
>Threading and other more error-prone techniques can
>be left aside, everything can run in one thread with
>a poll loop.
>
>The software should be running continously for
>practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
>Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
>leak-free enough to achieve this?
>

As a data point, I've had python programs run on linux for more than a year using both Python 2.1.3 and 2.2.3.  These were network apps, with both client and server functionality, using Twisted.

Jp


From carsten at uniqsys.com  Mon Oct 31 14:29:08 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:29:08 -0500
Subject: Function returns none
In-Reply-To: <1130785944.632805.156810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130785944.632805.156810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130786948.4582.102.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 14:12, noahlt at gmail.com wrote:
> I'm trying to write a website updating script, but when I run the
> script, my function to search the DOM tree returns None instead of what
> it should.
> 
> I have this program:
> --------
> import sys
> from xml.dom.minidom import parse
> 
> 
> # search the tree for an element with a particular class
> 
> def findelement(current, classtofind, topnode = None):
>     if topnode == None: topnode = current
> 
> 
> 
>     # if it's an xml element...
>     if current.nodeType == 1:
>         print current.nodeName, ':', current.getAttribute('class')
>         if current.getAttribute('class') == classtofind:
>             print 'Returning node:', current
>             return current
>         elif current.hasChildNodes():
>             findelement(current.firstChild, classtofind, topnode)
>         elif current.nextSibling:
>             findelement(current.nextSibling, classtofind, topnode)
> 
>         elif (current.parentNode != topnode) \
> 
>                  and (current.parentNode.nextSibling != None):
> 
>             findelement(current.parentNode.nextSibling, classtofind,
> topnode)
>         else:
> 
>             print 'Returning None...'
> 
>             return None
> 
>     # others (text, comment, etc)
> 
>     else:
> 
>         if current.nextSibling:
> 
>             findelement(current.nextSibling, classtofind, topnode)
> 
>         elif (current.parentNode != topnode) \
> 
>                  and (current.parentNode.nextSibling != None):
> 
>             findelement(current.parentNode.nextSibling, classtofind,
> topnode)
>         else:
> 
>             print 'Returning None...'
> 
>             return None
> 
> 
> 
> # parse the document
> 
> blog = parse('/home/noah/dev/blog/template.html')
> 
> 
> 
> # find a post
> 
> postexample = findelement(blog.documentElement, 'post')
> 
> 
> 
> print 'Got node:       ', postexample
> 
> -----
> 
> My output is this:
> 
> -----
> html :
> head :
> title :
> body :
> h1 :
> ul :
> li :
> h2 :
> ol :
> li : post
> Returning node: <DOM Element: li at -0x48599c74>
> Got node:        None
> -----
> 
> The function finds the right element fine, and says it will return <DOM
> Element: li at -0x48599c74>, but the program gets None instead.  What's
> happening here?  Any suggestions?

You have a lot of cases where findelement is called recursively and then
its return value is discarded instead of being turned into a return
value to the caller. In those cases, execution simply falls off the end
of the function and None is returned implicitly (and silently, since you
don't have a print "Returning None" at the end of the function).

HTH,

Carsten.




From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sun Oct 23 21:08:43 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:08:43 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<slrndlo3ku.1ir.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>
Message-ID: <tuW6f.1673$ki7.77769@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Alan Connor" <i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid> wrote in message 
news:slrndlo3ku.1ir.i3x9mdw at b29x3m.invalid...

> /kooks/alanconnor.shtml

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up...

Matt 




From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct  3 11:09:45 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 15:09:45 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96E4A47236812duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> 
>> and worse it adds a burden on everyone reading the code who 
>> has more lines to read before understanding the code.
> 
> Well maybe we should remove all those comments from code too,
> because all it does is add more lines for people to read.

You'll get no argument from me there. The vast majority of comments I come 
across in code are a total waste of time.


From pd at traxon.com  Tue Oct 25 10:05:18 2005
From: pd at traxon.com (Paul Dale)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:05:18 +0200
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1130239804.889031.139640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<435d04b8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>	<1130170339.476122.61080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2509.1130225382.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130239804.889031.139640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435E3B9E.7080500@traxon.com>


pexpect is POSIX compliant and works under Cygwin. I haven't tried it 
under pythonw.

Just install cgywin (including python) then follow the standard 
instructions for pexpect.

There was one small trick I had to do to get cygwin working totally 
properly on my machine which was run a rebaseall.

Rebaseall sets the memory addresses for the DLLs or something like that.

However, there is a slight problem. The rebaseall runs inside cygwin and 
uses one of the DLLs. To get around this I change the rebaseall script 
to write it's command to a text file and then  run those commands in a 
DOS cmd shell. After that everything has worked without problem.


Good luck,

Paul

jas wrote:

>Paul,
>   I did ceck out the PExpect, however, I thought it was not ported for
>Windows.  Did you find a ported version?  If not, what did you have to
>do to be able to use it?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul Dale wrote:
>  
>
>>You might want to try python expect which gives you a very simple and
>>scriptable interface to a process.
>>
>>http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
>>
>>I've been using it on windows to automate a few things.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>jas wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Kent,
>>> Yes, your example does work.  So did os.popen...however, the problem
>>>is specific to "cmd.exe".
>>>  Have you tried that yet?
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>Kent Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>jas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Ok, I tried this...
>>>>>
>>>>>C:\>python
>>>>>Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
>>>>>on win32
>>>>>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>import subprocess as sp
>>>>>>>>p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
>>>>>operable program or batch file.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
>>>>>store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
>>>>>an error with result.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>This works for me:
>>>>import subprocess as sp
>>>>p = sp.Popen("ipconfig", stdout=sp.PIPE)
>>>>result = p.communicate()[0]
>>>>print result
>>>>
>>>>Kent
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 27 12:57:54 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:57:54 +0100
Subject: how do i run another script from my python script
In-Reply-To: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djr0uh$dou$1@sea.gmane.org>

nephish at xit.net wrote:
> hey there all,
> i have been looking for a way to run a php command line script from my
> python script.
> 
> here is what i want to do:
> 
> if x = 4:
>     execute php4 testin.php
> else:
>     execute php4 testout.php
> 
> and i also need the script to wait untill the php4 script is done
> (which i think is the default ) before continuing to run.
> 
> i know this is possible, but how?
> thanks
> 
import os
if x = 4:
     script = "testin.php"
else:
     script = "testout.php"
os.system(script)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sun Oct 23 12:31:00 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:31:00 -0400
Subject: How to separate directory list and file list?
References: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130085111.3db900b3e54074b0e13d58138c54617b@teranews>

"Gonnasi" <harddong at 21cn.net> wrote:

> With
> >glob.glob("*")
>
> or
> >os.listdir(cwd)
>
> I can get a combined file list with directory list, but I just wanna a
> bare file list, no directory list. How to get it?
>
> Tons of thanks in advance!
>
> Gonnasi

Using the path module (http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/):

from path import path
path('.').files()

George




From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Tue Oct  4 21:00:16 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:00:16 -0400
Subject: check html file size
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <wAF0f.4432$2F2.545358@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote in message 
news:1128473042.653989.175990 at o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> would anyone like to translate the following perl script to Python or
> Scheme (scsh)?

Even if you weren't an incredibly offensive and petulant poster, what makes 
you think anyone would write a script from you?

Matt 




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 05:40:02 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:40:02 +0100
Subject: Printing a document in the default network printer under Windows
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D229F@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[Maravilloso]

> I'm getting mad trying to find the way for making a standard
> document (Word file, Postscript document, JPEG file...) to be
> sent/printed in the default network printer from a python script that
> runs on Win2K.

Is this of any use?

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/win32_how_do_i/print.html

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 17:29:20 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 14:29:20 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

?Beautiful and elegant solution!

Two copies of the password: one on the client, the other on the server.

1. Client wants to connect
2. Server generates a random_alphanumeric_string and sends it to the
client
3. Both Client and Server creates a hash string from
<password+random_alphanumeric_string>
4. Client sends the hash string to the server
5. Server compares his hash result with the hash string received from
de client.

I think it is a very good solution, Isn't it?

Daniel



From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Wed Oct 19 23:41:47 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 05:41:47 +0200
Subject: Trouble with win32com and MS Project
References: <PvD5f.1507$S24.103329@news.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <43571225$0$2659$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !


The parameter      (ResourceID=2)      is problematic

Try :
    proj.Tasks(3).Assignments.Add(2)



@-salutations

Michel Claveau





From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct  8 18:45:35 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 22:45:35 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<8ohgk1p9s6pgaq8d67bgpjg7i8i22ngiul@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96E9B4A6EC3EBcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:57:13 -0000, gordonb.u09l7 at burditt.org (Gordon
> Burditt) wrote or quoted :
> 
>>
>>HTML enables a heck of a lot of problems:  "web bugs" in email,
>>links to fake sites that appear as real ones in what shows up
>>on the screen, Javascript viruses, denial-of-service attacks
>>(pages that open two windows when you close one), etc.
> 
> Just how long do you want to stall evolution?  Do you imagine people
> 200 years from now will be still be using pure ASCII text unable to
> find a solution to JavaScript viruses (turn off JS), pop-up( disable
> popups) etc.?

I've already the impression that a lot of people are moving from email to 
IM. I prefer email, but some of my customers prefer IM.

Also, with Unicode support in a plain text environment it's also possible 
to make links to fake sites. It's even possible with pure ASCII I mean:

HTTP://WWW.G00GLE.COM/ or even: http://www.goog1e.com/.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct  9 19:30:46 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:30:46 -0500
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <4349A3CD.8030603@open-networks.net>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<4349A3CD.8030603@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <20051009233046.GB6224@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 09:12:13AM +1000, Timothy Smith wrote:
> FAYI i have already found it and it was a wrongly indented code block :/

When indentation leaves an illegal program structure, Python gives a very
informative error message, such as

  File "/tmp/x.py", line 3
    return 3
           ^
IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level

Jeff
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From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Wed Oct 12 00:22:44 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:22:44 +1000
Subject: are there internal functions for these ?
References: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434C8F94.2090906@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

black wrote:

> anyone could figure me out ? 

No, I suspect people would have to be a trained 
psychologist to figure you out.

*wink*

-- 
Steven.



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 16:07:23 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:07:23 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

Mike,

Here is what I am trying to do:

**** WHAT ****
-) a client opens his/her browser and click on some button which triggers my
plugin
-) the plugin starts to communicate with a server on some URL.
-) the communication between the server and the client involves a few
exchanges: data from client to server, then from server to client,.....
-) just for info (I do not think it's relevant to my problem) on each side
(server and client) there is a smart card (that's why I need a plugin) and
the information exchanged comes from/go to the smart cards
-) The smart card on the server side eventually decides whether or not the
smart client on the client side is OK and tells so to the cgi script which
acts accordingly

***** HOW (if there's a better way let me know please) ******
As I have not found any better solution yet, I am trying to do the following
(on the server there is an html file and a cgi file)

-) the plugging opens the correct url which has a form with a "click" button
-) the customer clicks on the button
-) the server "puts" some information in a hidden form field (info from
local smart card)
-) the pluggin fetches the information from the form field and gives it to
its local smart card 
....... (this a couple of time)
-) the cgi script gets the final verdict from the server smart card and acts
accordingly.

I hope that is clearer.

Regards,

Philippe





Mike Meyer wrote:

> "Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
> 
>> PS: If my question is not clear, I am trying to "share" the form between
>> the client and server.
> 
> Yes, your question is not clear. And this statement doesn't clarify
> it. That you quoted the "share" shows you are probably aware of this,
> if not consciously so.
> 
>> just as many sites out there allow you to modify existing data:
>> 1) the server pops up a form with your data in it.
>> 2) the client can modify it and submit.
> 
> This doesn't really help, either. The server can't "pop up" a form;
> only the client can do that. All the server can do is send data to
> the client.
> 
> The client can't modify data on the server. It can send data to the
> server, but that arrives as *new* data. The server can use that to
> replace old data, thus modifying that old data.
> 
>> I know this is a _basic_ question, sorry.
> 
> It's not clear it's a basic question, because it's not clear what
> you're trying to do.
> 
> Try answering these questions:
> 
> Where do you expect the HTML to come from?
> Where do you expect the data originally in the HTML form to come from?
> Where do you expect the data the user inputs into the form to be stored?
> 
>       <mike
> 
> 
>> Philippe
>>
>>
>>
>> Philippe C. Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I am trying to change the data in a form field from python. The
>>> following code does not crash but has no effect as if "form" is just a
>>> copy of the original html form.
>>> 
>>> Must I recreate the form order to do that ?
>>> 
>>> My point is for the client to be able to re-read the modified data.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Philippe
>>> #!/usr/bin/python
>>> 
>>> import cgi
>>> import os
>>> import sys
>>> import logging
>>> import cgi
>>> sys.stderr = sys.stdout
>>> print "Content-type: text/html\n"
>>> try:
>>>     form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>>>     #logging.warning (form)
>>>     
>>> except:
>>>     logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 1")
>>> try:
>>> 
>>>     form['tosrv'].value = "TEST"
>>> except:
>>>     logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 2")
>>>     pass
>>> 
>>>     <html>
>>>     <body>
>>>     <title>Smart Logon</title>
>>>     <h1>Smart Logon</h1>
>>>     <hr>
>>>     <FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="/cgi-bin/scfbweb.py">
>>>     <table>
>>>     <TR><TD>
>>>       <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="key" VALUE="process">
>>>      TO SERVER:<BR>
>>>       <INPUT  type=text NAME="tosrv" value="TO" size=60>
>>>       <BR>
>>>       FROM SERVER<BR>
>>>       <INPUT type=text name="fromsrv" value="FROM" size=60>
>>>       <P>
>>>         <INPUT TYPE="SUBMIT" VALUE="START">
>>> 
>>>     </TD></TR></table>
>>>         </FORM>
>>> </body>
>>> </html>
>>
> 



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 10:57:51 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:57:51 -0400
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>

So much for writing my whole program on one line :-(

j/k

-Greg

On 10/26/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>
> Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
>
> > Any idea why I can't say:
> >
> > if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
> >
> > all in one line like that?
>
> because ";" can only be used to separate simple statements, not
> the different parts in a compound statement.
>
> see the grammar for details:
>
> http://docs.python.org/ref/grammar.txt
>
> (look for "compound_stmt", "suite", "statement", etc)
>
> </F>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From hanser at club-internet.fr  Sat Oct 29 10:35:15 2005
From: hanser at club-internet.fr (Pierre Hanser)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:35:15 +0200
Subject: popen2
In-Reply-To: <11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com>
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de> <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4363887f$0$459$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Grant Edwards a ?crit :
> On 2005-10-29, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>"g.franzkowiak" <g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de> (gf) wrote:
>>
>>>gf> If starts a process with popen2.popen3('myprogram') and myprogram.exe is
>>>gf>  running before, I've a connection to the second process, not to the first.
>>>gf> I can find the process by name before I start a process with popen2...,
>>>gf> but how bcan I connect t this process with a pipe ?
>>
>>You have to use a named pipe.
> 
> 
> That would require that the application know about the named
> pipe and open it.  I don't think there is any way to swap a
> pipe in for stdin/stdout once a process is running.
> 
in C: freopen


From iminal4 at netscape.net  Tue Oct 18 12:40:55 2005
From: iminal4 at netscape.net (iminal)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 09:40:55 -0700
Subject: A little help with time calculations
Message-ID: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to make a very simple program and am very new to the whole
programming thing. my program is supposed to ask a user for any time in
the for format XX:XX:XX and then ask for a time corrrection to add or
subtract to this. my only problem is that once the user inputs the time
and the correction its adding it like it was 100 not to 60 any help?



From karczma at info.unicaen.fr  Tue Oct  4 08:57:37 2005
From: karczma at info.unicaen.fr (Jerzy Karczmarczuk)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:57:37 +0200
Subject: What is executed when in a generator
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1429.1128429067.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dhtq5k$62c$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
	<mailman.1429.1128429067.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhtu81$7da$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>

Thank you all for some precisions about yield and generators.
But I would like to underline that I am *not* a complete newbie,
and I understand this stuff in general. I read the yield.html
material quite a time ago. But thank you for the PEP, I should
have scanned it more carefully.

My problem was the *context of suspension*. You see, when some text
speaks about the preservation of local state, etc., *a priori* the
following sequence

def gen()
   a
   b
   c
   yield x
   d
   e
   f
   yield y

*COULD BE* understood as follows. Upon the call s=gen(), a, b and c
*get* executed, change the global state, install some local, and then
the system makes the snapshot, and returns the generator with its
context. The call to next returns x to the caller, but the generator
works for some time, and executes d, e and f before the next suspension.

Now I know that this is not true. The CO- flag of the gen() procedure
inhibits the execution of the code altogether, and a, b, c are executed
upon the first s.next; d, e and f - upon the second next. Etc. OK,
that's it, I accept such behaviour, although the alternative could be
interesting as well.

====


Steve Holden wrote:

> The first hing you need to realise is that s is a generator, and it 
> needs to be used in an iterative context to see the (sequence of) 
> yielded results:

This is not exact, this is a *particular* consumer view of generators.
I don't want them for iterators, I use them as emulators of *lazy
programming*, I implement some co-recursive algorithms with them.
So i use next() when I wish, and never 'for'.

Thank you once more.

Jerzy Karczmarczuk




From dakman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 09:15:46 2005
From: dakman at gmail.com (dakman at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 06:15:46 -0800
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
Message-ID: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Recently, I have been needing to do this alot and I can never find a
way around it, the main reason I want to do this is because for example
in the application I am making right now, it creates a grid of buttons
in a loop and they all have the same purpose so they need to call the
same method, within this method they need to change the background
color of the button clicked, I've tried stuff like...

button['command'] = lambda: self.fill(button)

def fill(self, wid):
    button['bg'] = '#ff0000'

But that's no good, everytime it I do click a button the lambda method
I have setup keeps getting recreated so all of the button commands
point to the same lambda method, I have also tried appending them to an
array, and calling them from that.

Anyone have any clue as of what to do? Thanks.



From dhwild at talktalk.net  Sat Oct  8 14:14:03 2005
From: dhwild at talktalk.net (David H Wild)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:14:03 +0100
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<91h5k1lt7qf83ce823fhs7ph9to3a4gput@4ax.com>
	<Io1x9B.AL8@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4db6be4416dhwild@talktalk.net>

In article <Io1x9B.AL8 at bath.ac.uk>,
   Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote:
> Plain text is a badly impoverished medium for explaining things in.

> For one thing, code on my web site tends to get syntax highlighted.
> There's no way I could do that in plain text.

On your web site the use of additional features is often, but not always,
justified - but we were talking about emails where the use of HTML bulks up
the email for very little gain.

-- 
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband


From lassevk at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 09:36:36 2005
From: lassevk at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:36:36 -0700
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
Message-ID: <1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, that looks like Mike's solution except that it uses the
built-in heapq module.

While this one contains less code than Mike's solution it seems to lack
the ability to control the comparison operation, which means it won't
work in my case. I need to both be able to sort on an arbitrary field
name (could be done using a list where I place the field first), and
also to be able to sort in a different order than smallest-first.

Perhaps by adjusting the data that is returned through each source
would do that. I'll look into it.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 25 04:53:45 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:53:45 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:06:36 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    Do you think it would be immoral if Microsoft said, "we will only sell 
>Windows wholesale to dealers who don't sell other operating systems?"

I had an existing independent business. I was not as though I were an
MS franchise. They imposed this extortion well into my business's
life.  My choice was comply or go out of business.

It was not as if I had a choice of sell Hondas or sell Kias if I did
like the franchise deal.

To my way of thinking what MS did was similar to a the only magasine
wholesaler in town telling retailers it had to sell kiddie porn under
the table or pay full retail for all magazines.

I broke my own ethical code rather than go out of business. I will
never forgive MS for putting me in that position. 


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From cj at nowhere.com  Wed Oct  5 02:48:59 2005
From: cj at nowhere.com (CJ)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:48:59 GMT
Subject: While and If messing up my program?
Message-ID: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>

 
   Hey, I'm new to the Python world, but I do have experience in several 
other languages. I've been running through a tutorial, and I decided that 
I'd make a program that runs through a list, finds if there are any 
duplicates. The program, doesn't work, but since its a first build I 
wasn't too worried about it. I'd be highly impressed if I got the program 
to run correctly in the first build, I want to debug it myself later.

   What does worry me, is that I can't seem to get the program by a 
certain spot. It keeps giving me the same error, and I don't know why.

The code:

ttllst=[4,3,45,3]
cnto=0
cntt=1
rept=-1

print cnto
print cntt
print ttllst[cnto]
print ttllst[cntt]
choice=raw_input("Begin? ")
if choice == "yes" or choice == "y":
    while cnto<>len(ttllst)+1:
        if ttllst[cnto]==ttllst[cntt]:
            rept=rept+1
        if cntt==len(ttllst):
            print ttllst[cnto],"appears in the list",rept,"times."
            cntt=-1
            cnto=cnto+1
            rept=-1
        cntt=cntt+1
    print "done."



After running the program I get error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python24\Projects\repeatfinderlist", line 13, in -toplevel-
    if ttllst[cnto]==ttllst[cntt]:
IndexError: list index out of range


Now, if I remove the while, and the If/choice lines like so:


ttllst=[4,3,45,3]
cnto=0
cntt=1
rept=-1

print cnto
print cntt
print ttllst[cnto]
print ttllst[cntt]
if ttllst[cnto]==ttllst[cntt]:
    rept=rept+1
if cntt==len(ttllst):
    print ttllst[cnto],"appears in the list",rept,"times."
    cntt=-1
    cnto=cnto+1
    rept=-1
cntt=cntt+1
print "done."


I get no errors. The program doesn't work, granted, but I get no errors. 
Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?

Thanks!
-CJ



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 12:07:34 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 09:07:34 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1h4xfpb.1oh4ntjwcvubfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86y84k95c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4vl5j.1sg46l1irzgfmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130154629.382286.33090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4xfpb.1oh4ntjwcvubfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130170053.925076.26700@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Alex Martelli:
> Michele Simionato:
>> cutting off non-essential features (and you can discover that a feature
>> is non essential only after having implemented it)

> This one is difficult if you have RELEASED the program with the feature
> you now want to remove, sigh.

Yeah, but I used the wrong word "features", which typically means "end
user features".
Instead, I had in mind "developer features", i.e. core features that
will be called later
in "client" code (I am in a framework mindset here).

Typically I start with a small class, then the class becomes larger as
I add features that will
be useful for client code, then I discover than the class has become
difficult to mantain.
So I cut the features and and I implement them outside the class and
the class becomes
short again.

However, I *cannot* know from the beginning what is the minimal set of
features
needed to make short the client code until I write a lot of client
code. I can make things short
only after I have made things long. I think this applies to me, to you,
to Pascal and to
everybody in general. It is impossible to start from the beginning with
the short program,
unless you already know the solution (that means, you have already
written the long
version in the past). Still, some naive people think there is a silver
bullet or an easy way
to avoid the hard work. They are naive ;)

                Michele Simionato



From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 10:43:33 2005
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:43:33 -0400
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
In-Reply-To: <1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fca207170510180743x4e99dc8bu71965ecf8a7fb371@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 Oct 2005 07:16:11 -0700, Chris Lasher <chris.lasher at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A marriage of the two
> would seem like the best of both worlds.
>
> Chris


The pessimists would say "the worst of both worlds" ;)
-------------- next part --------------
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From rvtol+news at isolution.nl  Sun Oct  9 07:31:20 2005
From: rvtol+news at isolution.nl (Dr.Ruud)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:31:20 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll13mlpn.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <diauqc.g8.1@news.isolution.nl>
	<86vf07km20.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dib662.1j8.1@news.isolution.nl>

Mike Meyer:

> Try qmail - it may solve the problem with a lot less work.

I checked my .procmailrc, and saw that mail with qmail anywhere in the
headers, goes to a spambox here.

;)

-- 
Affijn, Ruud    <http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh770781&cmd=tunermini>

"Gewoon is een tijger."



From amichail at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 03:35:05 2005
From: amichail at gmail.com (Amir  Michail)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 00:35:05 -0700
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
Message-ID: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Is there an easy way to execute a python cgi script on a different
machine from the cgi server?

I could write my own server, but I was wondering if something is
available that would allow me to use a cgi script as is without
modification.

Amir



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 11 21:40:35 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:40:35 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <k0qok19md1le5ju60ip9a501kt16nia3pv@4ax.com>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:27:30 GMT, axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote or
quoted :

>> This would slow them down with requests for permission to send. they
>> could send only one per certificate.  The  cost and hassle of getting
>> the certificate could deter tem, and uniquely identify them for
>> blocking and public black lists.
>
>Plus being a total pain for legitimate correspondents and also expensive.

First understand that you only have to get permission to send once.
That carries on until revoked.  Permission gives me an encryption key
and permission to send mail to you.

Also I envision by the time this comes into being most people will be
24-7 attached. 

So let's say I decide to send an email to Donald Knuth.  I compose my
one line introduction. I compose my email and walk away.  Without
further hassle on my part, either my mail will be delivered, or will
be rejected or it will sit in limbo until Dr. Knuth gets time to
decide.  If he rejects my plea, my mail will never arrive at his site.

Presumably Dr. Knuth would configure his software to accept only pleas
from people with digital ids, and further to accept at most one plea
from them and to remember his no for at least a year.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From gene.tani at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 10:55:49 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 07:55:49 -0700
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
In-Reply-To: <1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128178549.199170.291190@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

(posted c.l.python ONLY)

Xah (may i call you Xah?)

SOrry to say, but your older posts were much funnier:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/15f7015d23a6758e/9ee26da60295d7c8?lnk=st&q=&rnum=5&hl=en#9ee26da60295d7c8

(also seems your anti-cult cult really hasn't gotten a lot of
followers.  You might want to change password on your email account and
this time not give it out to all your friends.

Anyway, good luck in all your future endeavors.  Um, don't have to keep
in touch, tho.

Xah Lee wrote:
> the programers in the industry, including bigwigs such as Guido or that
> Larry Wall fuckhead, really don't know shit about computer languages.



From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 12:55:11 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 09:55:11 -0700
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
In-Reply-To: <s9zpsqa65oi.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zy84y67r1.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
	<1129133752.747652.246050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zu0fm66uf.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
	<1129134751.371726.86030@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zpsqa65oi.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1129136111.548288.313440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> "Java and Swing" <codecraig at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > char *foo(const char *in) {
> >     char *tmp;
> >     tmp = (char *) malloc((strlen(in) * sizeof(char)) + 1);
> >     strcpy(tmp, in);
> >     ...
> >     ...
> >     free(tmp);
> >     return someValue;
> > }
> >
> > Is that appropriate?  I was under the impression that when you malloc
> > memory, you free it when done.
>
> Looks fine.  I hope someValue does not point somewhere into the tmp
> buffer, though.

  someValue doesn't.

>
> > I also have things like...
> >
> > char *bar(char *in) {
> >     char *results, *finalResults;
> >     results = (char *) malloc(...);
> >     finalResults = results;
> >
> >     while (...) { *results++ = some_val; }
> >
> >     return finalResults;
> > }
>
> Seems OK, too, assuming the results buffer is big enough.

    results = (char *) malloc((sizeof(char) * strlen(in) + 1);
    ..should be big enough.  At any rate, it works four times in a row
before it fails.

    I wonder what else or how else to solve this.  Why is malloc'ing
the memory crashing it!?



From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Tue Oct 25 04:59:07 2005
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:59:07 +0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djks4r$pth$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>


"Joerg Schuster" <joerg.schuster at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130160675.270886.208420 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Hello,

Python regular expressions must not have more than 100 capturing
groups.

Really ??

I have been waiting a long time now for Python to get rid of this
limitation.

Ahh - The "dark side" of Open Source:

If nobody cares, then you will have to do it yourself (and often people do
not care because nobody had the need to go there - for good reasons).

My question is: Does anyone know if the problem is going to be fixed in
the next few months or so? Or is there a way to circumvent it?

After a quick glean across the source code for the sre module, it appears
that the only place the code mentions a limit of 100 groups is in fact the
place that you quote.

I suspect it is there for some historic reason -  the people to ask is of
course "pythonware.com" who wrote it; there may well be a good reason for
the limitation.

What happens if you up the limit to whatever you need?




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 14:23:25 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:23:25 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>
	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>
	<djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4363b997.1286415918@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1h56xzx.1myp005135m0hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> >>>    while block:
> >>>        block = block[-overlap:] + f.read(blocksize-overlap)
> >>>        if block: yield block
   ...
> I was thinking this was an example a la Alex's previous discussion
> of interviewee code challenges ;-)
> 
> What struck me was
> 
>  >>> gen = byblocks(StringIO.StringIO('no'),1024,len('end?')-1)
>  >>> [gen.next() for i in xrange(10)]
>  ['no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no']

Heh, OK, I should get back into the habit of adding a "warning: untested
code" when I post code (particularly when it's late and I'm
jetlagged;-).  The code I posted will never exit, since block always
keeps the last overlap bytes; it needs to be changed into something like
(warning -- untested code!-)

if overlap>0:
  while True:
    next = f.read(blocksize-overlap)
    if not next: break
    block = block[-overlap:] + next
    yield block
else:
  while True:
    next = f.read(blocksize)
    if not next: break
    yield next

(the if/else is needed to handle requests for overlaps <= 0, if desired;
I think it's clearer to split the cases rather than to test inside the
loop's body).


Alex
    


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Mon Oct 10 12:30:04 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:30:04 -0700
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
In-Reply-To: <8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <434a96b2$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Well, if there's some software you use on a regular basis, that's a
> good start. Python itself is a candidate. If the goal is just to
> contribute, start going through the bugs database, and see if you can
> contribute patches that fix some of the reporrted bugs.

That's excellent advice.  Maybe some bug in there sounds interesting.
Also, you could review some of the submitted patches in areas you
find interesting (leading you to the mystical 5 reviews that help
get your patches reviewed).  It is a slightly gentle introduction
to the process, and reviewing a patch can be thought of a getting
a mini guided tour.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Tue Oct 11 03:09:27 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:09:27 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <434B6527.6050405@designaproduct.biz>


>Ignoring all the other issues, any solution which actually requires the 
>password to be stored on the server is a bad solution.  Administrators 
>should not have access to user passwords, and in addition users should 
>not be put in the position of having to trust your server-side security 
>to keep their passwords (which they might have used on other systems) 
>from being grabbed by hackers.
>  
>
Users will always need to trust in the server. The authentication 
process ensures that the
client is really talking with the desired server and vice versa. But 
even if you know that you
are talking to the right server, you need to trust in the server. The 
administrator of the server
has access to all data. Possibly other persons and softwares too. 
Passwords are not different
from this point of view.

  Les



From pink at odahoda.de  Wed Oct 26 05:58:11 2005
From: pink at odahoda.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:58:11 +0200
Subject: Pickle to source code
References: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djnjp2$c19$1@online.de>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> I want to convert from pickle format to python source code. That is,
> given an existing pickle, I want to produce a textual representation
> which, when evaluated, yields the original object (as if I had
> unpickled the pickle).
> I know of some transformations pickle/xml (Zope comes with one such
> tool, gnosis xml is another) so I believe I could build something based
> on them.
> But I dont want to reinvent the wheel, I wonder if anyone knows of a
> library which could do what I want?

If all objects correctly implement the __repr__ method (true for built-in
stuff like list, dict, set...):
Just unpickle it and call repr() on the resulting object.


-- 
Benjamin Niemann
Email: pink at odahoda dot de
WWW: http://www.odahoda.de/


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 25 10:34:41 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:34:41 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129927722.835095.191620@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11lilpklp9mib0f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129935678.372329.107850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130194705.182317.124380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<64drl1960ek973jvlcm9rg4vbuaj13cuaq@4ax.com>
	<1130244756.737249.260940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lsgk11f2jvr66@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-25, nephish at xit.net <nephish at xit.net> wrote:

> well, for what i tried, ticstrings just contained a list of times
> formatted like
> [10-21 09:15, 10-21 09:44, 10-21 09:59, and so on.....]

OK. What did ticstrings contain in the demo I wrote for you?

[When somebody who is trying to help you asks what the value of
an object was in your program just paste the output from
repr(obj).  If you try to describe the contents in English, I
guarantee it won't be sufficient.]

> i did write mine a little different than the example that
> Grant gave me

Well, that's your problem.  Look at the ticstrings value that
worked, and look at the ticstrings value that didn't work.

What is the difference between the two?

> because its a little different application of time.
>
> i think i am having trouble knowing exactly what the set xtics
> line is looking for.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. someone in DAYTON,
                                  at               Ohio is selling USED
                               visi.com            CARPETS to a SERBO-CROATIAN


From http  Sat Oct  8 23:35:49 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Oct 2005 20:35:49 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll13mlpn.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xll132wh6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > I read mail over an ssh connection to a Unix shell.  I have no easy
> > way to read html email with a graphics browser.
> 
> You don't need a grahics browser - you just need a browser.

Right, precisely.  I use lynx, as I explained.  It renders the html as
plain text and doesn't violate any standards by doing so.  The html is
nothing but a pain in the neck that lynx removes, so they may as well
send text email in the first place.  Lynx shows that all the fancy
html formatting crap is just advisory at best.  It's perfectly fine
for a browser to ignore it.


From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 01:33:13 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:33:13 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>>>
>>>>> Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation.
>>>>
>>>> And the practical difference between the two is....
>>>>
>>>> That's right, nil.
>>>
>>> If you both read them as a collection of words, you're right.
>>> However, as a
>>> (freelance) programmer, things like this *do* make a difference to
>>> me, and my customers.
>>
>> That is, you assume that files claiming to contain XML documents may
>> actually contain some variant of XML, because that's only a
>> recommendation, while files claiming to contain C++ are all
>> ISO-conformant, because that's a standard?
>>
>> If so, you've got things precisely backwards.  C++ compilers that
>> contain extensions or are not quite compliant are everywhere. XML
>> parsers that accept non-well-formed XML are, ASFAIK, non-existent.
>
> My goodness, re read that again please, and rethink what you really want
> to say. I mean "claiming to contain C++". Is that like: all files
> claiming to contain HTML are automatically conforming to the ISO HTML
> standard?

You haven't said why you thinbk "standards" are more valuable than 
"recommendations". We apparently both agree they're no more likely to be 
observed, so what is the reason? 




From lbolognini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 00:45:42 2005
From: lbolognini at gmail.com (lbolognini at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 21:45:42 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130647542.669549.300360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Peter Hansen wrote:
> Do you mean this instead?
>
>       elif name in expected_form1_kwargs and name not in kwargs:
>
> What you wrote doesn't do what you think it does...  it actually tests
> for whether True or False is a key in kwargs, depending on whether "name
> in expected_form1_kwargs" returns True or False.

Hi Peter,

you're right... the code needed also other fixes and I didn't find a
way to do it other than this:

def foo(**kwargs):
    expected_form1_kwargs = ["arg1", "arg2"]

    for name in expected_form1_kwargs:
        if name not in kwargs:
            kwargs[name]=None

    for name in kwargs:
        if name in kwargs and name not in expected_form1_kwargs:
            raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword: " + name

    print kwargs
    
            
if __name__ == "__main__":
    foo(arg1=8)


Lorenzo



From microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com  Sun Oct 23 00:54:38 2005
From: microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com (microsnot)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:54:38 +1000
Subject: IDE recommendation please
Message-ID: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>

I'm new to Python but am wondering what IDE Python developers use? I use Mac
OS X 10.4.2. I have PythonIDE which comes with MacPython but I don't think
that has even rudimentary "intellisense". Xcode and Eclipse don't seem to
support Python out of the box. Suggestions for plugins for Eclipse would
also be nice.



From gregm at taming-tech.com  Fri Oct  7 15:24:30 2005
From: gregm at taming-tech.com (GregM)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 12:24:30 -0700
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
In-Reply-To: <86ll15nri1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86ll15nri1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128713070.821008.61410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi
thanks to all of you. Mike I like your committee idea. where can I
join? lol

Greg.



From rowen at cesmail.net  Wed Oct 19 16:45:42 2005
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:45:42 -0700
Subject: Tkinter or Python issue?
References: <98i5f.3686$vS1.1306@dukeread03> <opsyvskfiorqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
Message-ID: <rowen-7FF312.13454219102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <opsyvskfiorqur0o at eb.pragmadev>,
 "Eric Brunel" <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:

>You should now see why it works here: your first tkFont.Font is remembered at 
>Python level in a variable. So it is not discarded once the tag_config is 
>over. So the second tkFont.Font is not allocated at the same location, so it 
>doesn't have the same id, and it doesn't have the same name at tcl level. This 
>is the general solution to the problem: keep your fonts in Python variables, 
>so they won't be discarded and their names will never be re-used.

Yes. I consider this dangerous behavior, by the way and submitted a 
patch (that was not accepted) that would prevent this garbage collection.

tkFont is Tkinter's interface to tk named fonts. If you create a tkFont 
instance for a named font and then let it disappear, the named font 
disappears, even if other tkFont instances exist that map the same named 
font.

-- Russell


From jaydonnell at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 18:11:28 2005
From: jaydonnell at gmail.com (jdonnell)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 15:11:28 -0700
Subject: strange problems with urllib2
Message-ID: <1130364688.010192.39650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

When I run this code on windows it runs quickly (about a second per
image) but when I run it on linux it runs very very slowly (10+ seconds
per image). Is this a bug or am I missing something? On windows I tried
2.4.2 and 2.4.1 on linux i'm running 2.4.1

print 'starting'
f =
urllib2.urlopen('http://site.heavenlytreasures.com/images/e6115.jpg')
outfile = open('e6115.jpg', 'wb')
outfile.write(f.read())
outfile.close()
f.close()
print 'finished'



From tdwdotnet at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 05:44:55 2005
From: tdwdotnet at gmail.com (Tim Williams (gmail))
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:44:55 +0100
Subject: do cc list from smtplib
In-Reply-To: <1129887280.469124.107340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129887280.469124.107340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9afea2ac0510210244q5373a840k@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 Oct 2005 02:34:40 -0700, eight02645999 at yahoo.com
<eight02645999 at yahoo.com>
>
> def email(HOST,FROM,TO,CC,SUBJECT,BODY):
>     import smtplib
>     import string, sys

>     body = string.join((
>     "From: %s" % FROM,
>     "To: %s" % TO,
>     "CC: %s % CC,
>     "Subject: %s" % SUBJECT,
>     "",
>     BODY), "\r\n")
>
>     print body
>
>     server = smtplib.SMTP(HOST)
>     server.sendmail(FROM, [TO]+[CC],body)
>     server.quit()


From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sat Oct 15 00:56:06 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:56:06 GMT
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129122573.198977.245810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129122788.882046.4270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-C0633A.00561715102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1129122788.882046.4270 at o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
 "Java and Swing" <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:

> one more update...
> 
> if I remove PyMem_Free and free(...) ...so no memory clean up...I can
> still only call doStuff 4 times, the 5th attemp crashes Python.
> 
> Java and Swing wrote:
> > update:
> > if I use C's free(result), free(a) free(b) instead of PyMem_Free...I
> > only get one successfuly use/call of doStuff.
> >
> > i.e.
> > // this works
> > doStuff(...)
> >
> > // python crashes here
> > doStuff(...)
> >
> > Java and Swing wrote:
> > > static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> > > 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> > > 	PyObject *finalResult;
> > >
> > > 	// get arguments from Python
> > > 	char *result = 0;
> > > 	char *in= 0;
> > >     	char *aString = 0;
> > > 	char *bString = 0;
> > > 	MY_NUM *a;
> > > 	MY_NUM *b;
> > > 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> > > 	if (!ok) return 0;
> > >
> > > 	// do work to get a and b
> > > 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> > > 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> > > 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
> > >
> > > 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> > > 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
> > >
> > > 	// save result in Python string
> > > 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
> > >
> > > 	// free memory
> > > 	PyMem_Free(result);
> > > 	PyMem_Free(a);
> > > 	PyMem_Free(b);
> > >
> > > 	// return the result as a Python string
> > > 	return finalResult;
> > > }
> > >
> > > ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> > > call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> > > problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> > > actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> > > problem
> > > so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
> > > 
> > > Any ideas?  Thanks!
> 

I think your wrapper should look something like:

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    // this will store the result in a Python object
    PyObject *finalResult;
    
    // get arguments from Python
    char *result = 0;
    char *in= 0;
    char *aString = 0;
    char *bString = 0;
    MY_NUM *a;
    MY_NUM *b;
    
    int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
    if (!ok) return 0;
    
    // do work to get a and b
    // count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
    a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
    b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
    
    // make function call, which returns a char *
    result = doStuff(in, a, b);
    
    // save result in Python string
    finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
    
    // free memory
    free(result);
    free(a);
    free(b);
    
    // return the result as a Python string
    return finalResult;
}

You must match malloc() with free(), and PyMem_Malloc() with 
PyMem_Free().  Malloc() and free() usually crash /after/ the call that 
did the damage.  You may wish to avail yourself of your platform's 
malloc debugging facilities.

Note that I don't do this stuff in C, I do it in pyrex, and I'm new to 
it anyway, so there may still be something wrong.  Unless you are 
determined to learn how to do this in C, I think you should switch to 
pyrex.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct  6 03:37:51 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:37:51 +0200
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
In-Reply-To: <1128547611.050408.295600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3qitrdFf7cpaU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128547611.050408.295600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3qk2ieFfc282U2@uni-berlin.de>

k8 wrote:
> Thank you thank you thank you- The windows command line sol worked.

It sure does. But it sucks.. bad tab-completion, few tools, short 
history, limited command-line-editing and so on. But if you want it the 
hard way, it's your choice :)

Diez


From buffer_88 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 00:09:28 2005
From: buffer_88 at hotmail.com (George)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 21:09:28 -0700
Subject: Please Help with replaceChild
Message-ID: <1129522167.970794.199250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

How can I do the following in python:


compare the text in the element tags <li> with the elements
tags in filling and if they match replace the text within the elements
tags <li> with the text in the matching element tag of fillin.
For example Since the text Monday in form matches the Element tag
<Monday> in fillin put maandag in the element tag <li> of Monday.


Kind of a Pseudo Code


 Fo information:
 get element tags for li
 get text for li


 Fi information:
 get childtags for dutchdays


 if(text for li=child tags for dutchdays):
   replace child tags for dutchdays text with text for li


Some pieces of code that I tried out but cannot put together to get the
results.

import xml.dom.minidom
from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
import xml.xpath

form="""
<html>
<head> <title> My Sample Web Page </title> </head>
<body bgcolor="white">
<p>
What are the weekdays?
<ol>
<li>Monday</li>
</ol>
</p>
</body>
</html>
"""

fillin="""
<dutchdays>
<Monday>maandag</Monday>
<Tuesday>dinsdag</Tuesday>
<Wednesday>woensdag</Wednesday>
<Thursday>donderdag</Thursday>
<Friday>vrijdag</Friday>
<Saturday>zaterdag</Saturday>
<Sunday>zondag</Sunday>
</dutchdays>
"""

Fo = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(form)
Fi = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(fillin)

form_doc = parseString(form)
fill_doc = parseString(fillin)

for li in xml.xpath.Evaluate("//li", form_doc):
 li.normalize()
 day_text = li.childNodes[0]
 day_str = day_text.nodeValue
 for Monday in xml.xpath.Evaluate("//Monday", fill_doc):
  Monday.normalize()
  mon_text = Monday.childNodes[0]
  mon_str = mon_text.nodeValue
  #I want the to put the replace here put I have tried everything and
errors keep coming up

I am totally lost and do not know what to do could someone explain to
me what to do because I have looked at the python.org material and have
accomplished nothing.

Thanks



From desparn at wtf.com  Thu Oct  6 23:50:28 2005
From: desparn at wtf.com (Rick Wotnaz)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:50:28 -0400
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<867jcqoxgk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Xns96E7F302ED8C3reederz@63.223.7.253>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote in
news:867jcqoxgk.fsf at bhuda.mired.org: 

> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>> On 2005-10-06, DaveM <asma61 at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>>>>Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full
>>>>monty" or "trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn
>>>>word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for
>>>>the most part.
>>> Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that
>>> British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled,
>>> while first-generation Americans whose English is. um,
>>> limited, are not.
>> What?!?  I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of
>> the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a
>> nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting)
>> where the dialog was inaudible because of the music.
> 
> Maybe they were dubbed? I know America International dubbed the
> first version of "Mad Max" that they imported into the US. Then
> again, American International is well-know for their quality.

A couple of nights ago, I was amused and amazed to see subtitles 
during NBC news interviews with some good citizens of Louisiana. I 
don't know what NBC was thinking. I didn't think the accents were 
especially thick, either. I had no difficulty understanding the 
spoken words except in one stretch where background noise obscured 
some bits. I've certainly heard some New Yorkers with harder-to-
understand speech, though without subtitles. I suppose I could be 
fooling myself in thinking I understood them.

-- 
rzed


From ledruker at rogers.com  Wed Oct 19 00:26:46 2005
From: ledruker at rogers.com (Eugene Druker)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:26:46 -0400
Subject: Tkinter or Python issue?
References: <98i5f.3686$vS1.1306@dukeread03>
Message-ID: <BNidndMEAoiTVsjeRVn-gg@rogers.com>


"Ron Provost" <ronpro at cox.net> wrote in message
news:98i5f.3686$vS1.1306 at dukeread03...
> [snip]
> t.insert( Tk.END, sampleText )
>
> t.tag_config( 'AB', font=tkFont.Font( family='ariel', size=24,
> weight=tkFont.BOLD ) )
> t.tag_config( 'TBU', font=tkFont.Font( family='times', size=10,
> weight=tkFont.BOLD, underline=1 ) )
>
> t.tag_add( 'AB', '1.8', '1.15' )
> t.tag_add( 'TBU', '2.10', '2.30' )
>
> root.mainloop( )
> [snip]

tkFont.Font(...) is a class instance, while you need font description.
Try:
t.tag.config( 'TBU', font=('times', 12, 'bold','underline') )
t.tag_config( 'AB', font=('arial',24,'bold') )

Eugene




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct  8 10:46:47 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 09:46:47 -0500
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20051008144647.GB19288@unpythonic.net>

On Sat, Oct 08, 2005 at 01:53:28PM +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:
> Unless the results stored in the cache are very large data structures, I 
> would suggest that you simply store (args,kwargs) as the cache key and 
> accept the hit that sometime you'll cache the same call multiple times.

... except that dicts cannot be dict keys

Another 'memoize' decorator uses this to get the key:
            kw = kwargs.items()
            kw.sort()
            key = (args, tuple(kw))
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/325905

Jeff
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From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct  9 19:52:12 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:52:12 GMT
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1806.1128899938.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<mailman.1806.1128899938.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <M2i2f.181211$p_1.77615@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Timothy Smith wrote:
> i have reproduced the error in this code block
> 
> #save values in edit
>         self.FinaliseTill.SaveEditControlValue()
>         if 
> Decimal(self.parent.TillDetails[self.TillSelection.GetStringSelection()]['ChangeTinBalance'])) 
> == Decimal('0'):
>             #box must be checked before continuing
>             if self.PlacedInSafe.GetValue() != 1:
>                 self.parent.Popup("You must place the till draw back in 
> the safe","Till draw")
>             else:
>                 #finalise the till draw
>                 if     Decimal(self.TillFloat.GetLabel().split('$')[1]) 
> != Decimal('0'):
>                     Prompt = wx.MessageDialog(self,"""The correct amount 
> has not been returned from the till draw float to the main float!
>                     If you proceed please contact your 
> manager""","Change tin doesn't balance!",wx.YES_NO)
>                     if Prompt.ShowModal() == wx.ID_YES:
>                         self.Submit()
>         else:
>             self.parent.Popup('You have an outstanding change tin 
> balance on this till','Change tin')
> 
> 
> i have NO idea what in there could be making it have such a strange 
> error. it just says "error" when you try run it. there nothing terribly 
> strange being done.

Look for two possibilities.  There is most likely a bare try-except in 
either one of these functions or methods, *OR* in one of the functions 
or methods that calls this bit of code.

To try and pin it down further, introduce and error in here along with a 
print statement right before it, and see what happens.  The print lets 
you know your error was actually executed. If you get the same error, 
then the bare except is in a routine that calls this one but the actual 
error is at a later point.  If you get a new error, then they are both 
after that point.  Keep moving your indicator pair till you find the 
try-except that is giving you the errror.  Once you find the try-except 
pair that has intercepted the error, you can insert a bare raise right 
after the except and see the actual python error is.  That should give 
you a better idea of what's going on.

Cheers,
    Ron





From letezo at fw.hu  Thu Oct  6 02:53:24 2005
From: letezo at fw.hu (=?us-ascii?Q?Letezo?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:53:24 +0200
Subject: Simple prototype text editor in python
In-Reply-To: <1128530997.895468.164240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <000401c5ca42$b75b8d90$8800a8c0@sirius>

Hello,

> If anyone is interested in the
> code or in giving some ideas or indeed has done something 
> similar I would love to heard from you.

I'm interested in your code, since I'm going to learn ncurses. Please
upload your code to a WEB page and post the link to python-announce (if
you like your code GPL'd or python licensed).

If you like to experience 3D programming besides curses
in python with only few lines of code, just try it:

http://www.vpython.org

VPython supports 3D stereo with color glasses too. ;-)
You can use VPython to easily visualize vector math, etc...

Thanks in advance, Viktor



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 06:37:50 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:37:50 +0200
Subject: Quick help needed: how to format an integer  ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1505.1128506112.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1505.1128506112.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3qhonvFeuv86U1@uni-berlin.de>

durumdara at mailpont.hu wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> I need to convert some integer values.
> 
> "1622" ->"1 622"
> 
> or
> 
> "10001234" -> ""10.001.234""
> 
> So I need thousand separators.
> 
> Can anyone helps me with a simply solution (like %xxx) ?

The module locale does what you need, look at ist docs, especially


locale.str
locale.format


Regards,

Diez


From vivainio at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 14:42:12 2005
From: vivainio at gmail.com (vivainio at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 11:42:12 -0700
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.16.16.13.46.113944@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.13.46.113944@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1129488132.810143.108620@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Are you saying that the bugs it causes aren't subtle? *wink*

Exactly. Destructive generator problems are caught almost immediately.



From beliavsky at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 09:38:12 2005
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:38:12 -0700
Subject: Python 2nd favorite language in Linux Journal poll
Message-ID: <1128692292.832209.66860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Linux Journal annually polls its readers on questions such as their
favorite programming language. In the 2005 poll, Python is 2nd, its
highest ranking ever. Below are the results by year. I wish that
rankings beyond the first 3 were available and that the number of votes
were shown. Nerds like numbers, not journalist blather :). I found this
data for earlier years by Googling

"linux journal <yyyy> readers choice awards".

2005
1. C++
2. Python
3. PHP

2004
Favorite Programming Language
1. C
2. Perl
3. C++

Ah, favorite programming language-time for a flame war. A bit of a
shake-up this year: after being knocked out of first place last year, C
reclaims it this year and C++ drops to third. The P language in the top
three is Perl, while PHP slips to fourth place, closely followed by
Python. The voting was close this year, too; only 59 votes separated C
from C++.

2003
Favorite Programming Language
1. C++
2. C
3. PHP
Quick, everyone to your keyboard: the flame war begins in 5, 4, 3,
2....In a reversal of last year's winner and runner-up, C++ moved into
first place in 2003 by a mere 23 votes. Perl, meanwhile, got kicked out
of the top three for the first time in the history of our awards.
Continuing the C theme, C# is the favorite write-in vote.

2002
Favorite Programming Language
1. C
2. C++
3. Perl

C++ kicked Perl out of the second-favorite position this year, and only
17 votes kept C++ out of the top spot. In its first year on the
``official'' list, Kylix/Object Pascal came in fourth. Following that
was a close vote spread between PHP, Java and Python, in that order.
One quite reasonable voter wrote in that he uses ``whichever is best
for the project''. And to the voter who felt bad about preferring bash
shell scripting, don't worry, you're not alone.

2001
Favorite Programming Language
1. C
2. Perl
3. C++

Here's another category where we took your advice from last year and
split C/C++ into separate categories because, hey, they're not the
same. Java and PHP finish out the top five, with Python just missing
out by 15 votes. Kylix/Object Pascal had a strong write-in showing,
over 200 votes.

2000
1. C/C++
2. Perl
3. Java

``Plain C (without the ++).''

The perennial C/C++ wins 40% of your votes this year. To everyone who
took the time to remind us that C and C++ are not the same language, we
hear you loud and clear. Second and third place go to Perl and Java,
while Python continues to expand its fan base by claiming 8%.

1999
1. C/C++
2. Perl
3. Java

``Something wants to make me vote for Logo... but I'll spare you. :)''

The old UNIX standard--the closest thing we have to a cross-platform
assembler--wins nearly half the vote at 49.4%. We'll have to split C
and C++ next year; we received countless ``I hate C++'' comments, a
sentiment shared by nearly everyone who voted. Perl had an excellent
showing, with 20.6% of the vote, compared to the up-and-coming Python
which scored 4%. At 9.5%, Java appears to have become rather popular,
and a concerted effort from PHP enthusiasts managed to score it 4.6%.
Emacs (meaning ELisp, probably) received a large number of write-ins.
Doesn't anyone use assembly code anymore?

1998
1. Perl
2. Tcl/Tk



From peterm at resmed.com.au  Mon Oct 10 20:29:52 2005
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:29:52 +1000
Subject: Python on the Power PC
References: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	<mailman.1825.1128928745.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ID2f.21$QL5.426@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Unfortunately I am completely new to using the Pocket PC - the Python error
message appear to come up in 2 "waves" or screens - the first screen
contains the error message re can't find tkinter and is only visible for a
fraction of a second (repeated running and trying to get the eyes to focus
on each bit of information is very difficult! :-)) the second screen just
says

Traceback (inner most last):
<NULL> <NULL>

Unfortunately I can't work out any way to access the first screen to get the
exact message.

Also, I don't have any command line interface on the Pocket PC to follow
Fred's suggestion and run Python with command line arguments set. I seem to
be limited to just running a .py file from the File Explorer.

In the "Program Filess\Python\Lib" path there is a _tkinter file but it is a
.pyd not a .dll.

Peter

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1825.1128928745.509.python-list at python.org...
> Peter Milliken wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I (think I have :-)) installed Python on my Pocket PC (obtained from
> > http://fore.validus.com/~kashtan/).
> >
> > There were Tkinter binaries with it so I installed those as well. When I
> > attempt to run the most simplistic of python programs using Tkinter, I
get
> > an error message stating that Python can't find any tkinter module.
> >
> > Any ideas what I have done wrong anybody?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Peter
> >
> > import Tkinter
> >
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >   root = Tkinter.Tk()
> >
> >   root.title('Hello World?')
> >
> >   root.mainloop()
> >
> >
> Are you sure it didn't say "_tkinter" was what it couldn't find?
>
> On my Windows system the Tkinter.py file tries to import an extension
> (compiled C) module called _tkinter (provided as _tkinter.dll) that
> provides the low-level Tkinter functionality. It's likely that that's
> missing.
>
> regards
>   Steve
> -- 
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/
>




From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 06:28:04 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:28:04 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>
	<86psqfmukd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sghhk1hcom1adf7ic99j253bks1j54iqs4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <864q7rm1cb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:56:50 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>
>>Show us *examples*! Do you create a style sheet for every site you
>>visit that overrides there classes? What?
>
> Why don't you download a copy of Opera, see
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/opera.html

What makes you think I don't have a copy of Opera? Just so happens
I've got a registred copy on my newest computer.

> Then try out the feature.  Click View | style | user

My copy of Opera doesn't have that menu entry. I suspect you're making
platform-specific suggestions.

Trying it on a different platform, it looks like it does what I said
earlier: user mode simply disables the authors style sheets. None of
the "merging" you suggested was going on is actually happening

Can you demonstrate this "merging" you talked about? For example, show
me how to get the "Opera help" page to display with the authors layout
but my fonts.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 23:04:54 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:04:54 -0700
Subject: path
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510190521o4c68b249j2f9c721e0167f89f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510190521o4c68b249j2f9c721e0167f89f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d987df30510222004hab17922ra15be24a9f4365ab@mail.gmail.com>

what is the differenc ebetween index and find in the module of string?
for both "find" and "index", I got the position of the letter.


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Oct 20 05:26:49 2005
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:26:49 +0200
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlen60.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96F5560E865D8duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndlen60.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dj7nso$8oi$1@news.island.liu.se>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-20, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
> 
>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
>>>indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
>>>equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.
>>
>>If that is the case then you implement __eq__ and __ne__ to return 
>>True/False and make cmp throw an exception. I don't see any need to extend 
>>the cmp protocol.
> 
> 
> That is not sufficient. There are domains where an order exists, but not
> a total order. So for some couples of elements it is possible to say
> one is less than the other, but not for all such couples.
> 
> Your solution wouldn't allow for such a case.

Wouldn't the full power of rich comparisons be enough? See section 3.3.1 
in Python Reference Manual:

     http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/ref/customization.html

See methods __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__, __ge__.

/MiO




From u.hobelmann at web.de  Thu Oct  6 03:42:04 2005
From: u.hobelmann at web.de (Ulrich Hobelmann)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:42:04 +0200
Subject: check html file size
In-Reply-To: <m2psqjtr2j.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
	<3qj0bhFf3jebU1@individual.net>
	<m2psqjtr2j.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Message-ID: <3qk2qcFbk1haU1@individual.net>

Sherm Pendley wrote:
> I'm guessing you didn't get the joke then. I think Richard's response was a
> parody of Xah's "style" - a funny parody, at that.

If you take all the line noise in Perl as swearing ;)
I suppose I'm lucky I can't read it.

-- 
We're glad that graduates already know Java,
so we only have to teach them how to program.
	somewhere in a German company
(credit to M. Felleisen and M. Sperber)


From see at signature.invalid  Sat Oct 15 01:31:24 2005
From: see at signature.invalid (Nigel Rowe)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:31:24 +1000
Subject: Straight line detection
References: <1127939495.032208.272230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<7enpj1paiadd4ourjttchtrrpdkq0krivg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11l151cqs6g5hdd@news.supernews.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> "PyPK" <superprad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Does anyone know of a simple implementation of a straight line
>>detection algorithm something like hough or anything simpler.So
>>something like if we have a 2D arary of pixel elements representing a
>>particular Image. How can we identify lines in this Image.
>>for example:
>>
>>ary =
>>[[1,1,1,1,1],
>> [1,1,0,0,0],
>> [1,0,1,0,0],
>> [1,0,0,1,0],
>> [1,0,0,0,1]]
>>So if 'ary' represents pxl of an image which has a horizontal line(row
>>0),a vertical line(col 0) and a diagonal line(diagonal of ary). then
>>basically I want identify any horizontal or vertical or diagonal line
>>anywhere in the pxl array.
> 
> If all you want is horizontal, vertical, or 45 degree diagonal, it's
> pretty easy to do that just be checking all of the possibilities.
> 
> But what if your array is:
> 
>  [[1,1,1,1,1],
>   [1,1,1,1,1],
>   [1,1,1,1,1],
>   [1,1,1,1,1],
>   [1,1,1,1,1]]
> 
> Would you say there were 12 lines there?

Actually I'd say 24.

5 vertical, 
5 horizontal, 
7 diagonal downward to the right (lengths 2,3,4,5,4,3,2)
7 diagonal downward to the left (lengths 2,3,4,5,4,3,2)

-- 
        Nigel Rowe
        A pox upon the spammers that make me write my address like..
                rho (snail) swiftdsl (stop) com (stop) au


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Mon Oct  3 09:07:24 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:07:24 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <434087a4$0$49795$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <dhk1jj$7ri$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<434087a4$0$49795$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
Message-ID: <43412b45$0$21220$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Michael a ?crit :
> Rocco Moretti wrote:
> 
> 
>>That is, what would happen with the following constructs:
>>
>>A if B else C if D else F
>>A if B if C else D else F
> 
> 
> The correct answer should be the person who wrote it would get told off
> for writing code that a person reading would have no idea what the code
> was doing (without understanding the precedence).
> 
> Whilst it's good to have clear understandable, well defined rules for
> these things, that's no excuse for having unreadable code that other
> people can't read and understand without having to remember obscure
> rules.
> 
> Personally, I'd hope that any code-linting tools would flag such expressions
> as potentially bad because they're not clear. (Whereas bracketed expressions
> instantly help here).

Actually, you don't need to know operator precedence here because the 
notation isn't ambiguous in those 2 examples. Of course, it takes some 
time to understand the thing but it has more to do with the excessive 
amount of "logic" in one line than with the syntax.


From 212357 at students.smjuhsd.k12.ca.us  Sun Oct 16 03:55:28 2005
From: 212357 at students.smjuhsd.k12.ca.us (Chris Young)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:55:28 GMT
Subject: Recursion with __setattr__
Message-ID: <20051016075528.500CA1C7@ssc11.dmz.smjuhsd.k12.ca.us>

Operating Ubunutu Linux 5.04 on iMac 333mhz
Python 2.4.1 in IDLE 1.1.1

In trying to create a interactive drawing framework in Python I came across
the idea of binding attributes of one object to attributes of another.

The way it works is when obj1.attr1 is set obj2.attr2 should have it's
__setattr__ method called as well. But it ends up giving me a recursion error.

The attribute synchronization is shown below:

#file: sync.py

def sync(attr1,obj1,obj2,attr2=None):
   """Synchronize attribute access

   attr1:
   name of attribute to synchronize
   attr2:
   (optional) attribute name to use when setting second object.
"""
       if not attr2: attr2 = attr1
       # rename old __setattr__'s
       try:
           obj1.__old_setattr__ = obj1.__setattr__
           obj2.__old_setattr__ = obj2.__setattr__
       except AttributeError: pass
       # modify mirrored attributes on attribute change
       def hook_setattr(inst):
       # Hey! Only classes have special methods!
           class sethook(inst.__class__):
               def __setattr__(self,name,value):
                       try:
                           self.__old_setattr__(name,value)
                       except AttributeError: pass
                       if name in self.__syncdict__:
                           entry = self.__syncdict__[name]
                           for mirror,attr in entry: pass
# recursion error here:       setattr(mirror,attr,value)
           #sethook.__name__ = inst.__class__.__name__ # magic?
           inst.__class__ = sethook
       # append synchronization info
   try:
       obj1.__syncdict__[attr1].append(obj2,attr2)
   except AttributeError:
       obj1.__syncdict__ = {attr1: [(obj2,attr2)]}
   try:
       obj2.__syncdict__[attr2].append(obj1,attr1)
   except AttributeError:
       obj2.__syncdict__ = {attr2: [(obj1,attr1)]}
       # make the magic work
       hook_setattr(obj1)
       hook_setattr(obj2)

When I try to call this like sync('attr',obj,obj2) I get a recursion error.
I could understand this happening if I was calling setattr on itself, but
why the other object?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Also, any pointers on efficiency or easier
ways is also welcome. Thanks in
advance.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct  5 08:44:21 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:44:21 +1000
Subject: Confused with module and .py files
References: <mailman.1497.1128500379.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.05.12.44.15.819265@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:46:30 +0530, Iyer, Prasad C wrote:

> 
> Actually I am bit confused between the modules and .py file
> How do I differentiate between the 2.
> 
> For example
> I have a file import1.py, import2.py file
>
> Which has few functions and classes
> And if I have a class with same name "BaseClass" in both the file
> 
> How would I use it if I declare it as given below in my 3rd class
> 
> from import1.py import *
> from import2.py import *

You can't, because the BaseClass from the second import over-writes the
BaseClass from the first.

In general, "from module import *" is a bad idea, because you don't know
what names you are importing: you can have name collisions, where a name
in one module clashes with a name in your code, or another module. That is
what is happening with your code.

The way to prevent that is to use Python's namespaces: instead of "from
module import name", use "import module", and then call module.name.


-- 
Steven.



From kaiser.vocote at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 05:22:38 2005
From: kaiser.vocote at gmail.com (Andreas Kaiser)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 02:22:38 -0800
Subject: tachometer diagram
References: <1130753253.564379.63190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<87irvengel.fsf@linux.site>
	<1130753984.928720.9420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130754158.791554.25450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> I can change my mind, sorry.
Should be: I _can't_ change ...

Andreas



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Tue Oct 11 08:02:15 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:02:15 +0200
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
References: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<434ba819$0$38698$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <dig9k9$6nh$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Max M wrote:
> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> 
>> I must be missing something but what is the proper way to do a 
>> function using such arguments ?
> 
> 
>> - ability to take an unspecified number of "positional arguments"
> 
> 
> You should probably pass a sequence to the method instead. You can do it 
> the other way, but it's poor coding style in most cases.

So what you're saying is that instead of:

def fn(*values, **options):

I should use:

def fn(values, cmp=cmp):

in this specific case?

and then instead of:

fn(1, 2, 3, cmp=...)

this:

fn([1, 2, 3], cmp=...)

<snip>

I think I'll re-write to use a list instead.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From spam4bsimons at yahoo.ca  Sun Oct 23 21:39:17 2005
From: spam4bsimons at yahoo.ca (Brendan)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 18:39:17 -0700
Subject: IDE recommendation please
In-Reply-To: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1130117957.063267.304210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

As mentioned, there isn't a whole lot.  I've beta tested Komodo, and it
looks promising.  SPE might start working now that stani has a mac.

For now I use TextWrangler - a free text editor with good python
support.  http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/index.shtml

For interactive python, I use PyCrust (though the terminal works just
as well), and for building wxpython guis I use XrCed,  both of which
are available as native mac apps in the wxPython docs/demos package ):
http://www.wxpython.org/download.php.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Oct 21 23:28:53 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:28:53 -0500
Subject: C replacement for Queue module
In-Reply-To: <1129944777.362827.147670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129944777.362827.147670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051022032853.GB16269@unpythonic.net>

does collections.deque have a blocking popleft()?  If not, it's not very
suitable to replace Queue.Queue.

Jeff
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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Oct 29 14:17:53 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:17:53 +0200
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de> <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m2hdb0rxv2.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> (GE) wrote:

>GE> On 2005-10-29, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "g.franzkowiak" <g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de> (gf) wrote:
>>> 
>gf> If starts a process with popen2.popen3('myprogram') and myprogram.exe is
>gf> running before, I've a connection to the second process, not to the first.
>gf> I can find the process by name before I start a process with popen2...,
>gf> but how bcan I connect t this process with a pipe ?
>>> 
>>> You have to use a named pipe.

>GE> That would require that the application know about the named
>GE> pipe and open it.  I don't think there is any way to swap a
>GE> pipe in for stdin/stdout once a process is running.

Sure. 'myprogram' should be designed to communicate through a named pipe,
or be called with named pipe(s) as stdin/stdout.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From matt at matt-darby.com  Tue Oct  4 15:12:02 2005
From: matt at matt-darby.com (Matt Darby)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:12:02 -0400
Subject: Python script to install network printers
In-Reply-To: <f294c98c0510040823x4b214f4cg2c8ba9f891bbb825@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f294c98c0510040823x4b214f4cg2c8ba9f891bbb825@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4342D402.7040004@matt-darby.com>

Matt Chan wrote:

>Hi, I am trying to create a python script to install a set of network
>printers. I have had success using an os.popen statement, using
>rundll32 and printui.dll. This takes way too long. Can someone point
>me in a quicker direction?
>
>thanks,
>Matt
>  
>
I know this is the python mailinglist, but why not use some batch 
commands in a netlogon script? (assuming you're using Samba of course)

Matt Darby


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 04:20:23 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:20:23 +0200
Subject: Question about parsing a string
References: <434A1DFF.7080203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <did889$ml5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nico Grubert wrote:

> I would like to parse a string in Python.
>
> If the string is e.g. '[url=http://www.whatever.org][/url]' I would like
> to generate this string:
> '<a href="http://www.whatever.org">http://www.whatever.org</a>'
>
> If the string is e.g. '[url=http://www.whatever.org]My link[/url]' I
> would like to generate this string:
> '<a href="http://www.whatever.org">My link</a>'
>
> Any idea how I can do this? Maybe with regular expressions?

here's one way to do it:

import re, cgi

def fixurl(text):
    def fixup(m):
        link, text = m.groups()
        text = text.strip() or link
        return "<a href='%s'>%s</a>" % (cgi.escape(link), cgi.escape(text))
    return re.sub(r"\[url=([^]]+)\]([^[]*)\[/url\]", fixup, text)

usage:

>>> fixurl("[url=http://www.whatever.org][/url]")
"<a href='http://www.whatever.org'>http://www.whatever.org</a>"
>>> fixurl("[url=http://www.whatever.org]My link[/url]")
"<a href='http://www.whatever.org'>My link</a>"

</F>





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 22 14:08:38 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:08:38 +0200
Subject: find() method in ElementTree
References: <1130002534.912055.68510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djdv79$um0$1@sea.gmane.org>

mirandacascade at yahoo.com wrote:

> My questions:
> 1) in the example above is there a subelement of doc with a tag
> 'SampleDetails'?

find only searches for direct subelements; SampleDetail is not a direct
subelement to SampleRoot, since there's a SpecificInformation element
in between.

> 2) if so, what is the proper way of writing the call to the find()
> method to locate that subelement?

    elem = doc.find(".//SampleDetail")

should work.

</F>





From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct  8 13:40:39 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:40:39 GMT
Subject: dis.dis question
Message-ID: <rwT1f.138151$xl6.1729@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>


Can anyone show me an example of of using dis() with a traceback?

Examples of using disassemble_string() and distb() separately if 
possible would be nice also.


I'm experimenting with modifying the dis module so that it returns it's 
results instead of using 'print' it as it goes.  I want to make sure it 
works for all the current use cases (or as many as possible), but I 
haven't been able to find any examples of using dis with tracebacks 
using google.  I keep getting various copies of the current and older 
Python doc pages when I search, and not much else.

How much other python code depends on the dis() and disassembly() 
functions?  Is it used by other modules or is it meant to be a stand 
alone tool?

The changes I've made (for my own use so far) is to have disassembly() 
return a bare unformatted table, (list of list), that can easily be 
examined with python, and then to use a dis2str() function to return a 
nice formatted output-string from the table.  In order to have dis() 
display properly in an interactive shell as well as printing, I have 
dis() return a disassembly list object with a  __repr__() method to call 
dis2str().

class disobj(list):
     """ A disassembly list object """
     def __init__(self, dislist, name=None, lasti=-1):
         self[:] = dislist
         self.name = name
         self.lasti = lasti
     def __repr__(self):
         return dis2str(self, self.name, self.lasti)

That seems to work well in both the shell and with 'print'.  And it 
still allows direct table introspection without having to parse the 
output.  ;-)

For example the get_labels() function used was reduced to ...

def getlabels(dislist):
     """ Get labels from disassembly list table. """
     return [x[4] for x in dislist if type(x[4]) is str]

Another benefit, is to be able to get the results without having to 
redirect, capture, and then reset sys.stdout.

But I still need to rewrite disassemble_string() and need to test it 
with tracebacks.

Cheers,
Ron



From WalterHoward at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 13:48:56 2005
From: WalterHoward at gmail.com (WalterHoward at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 10:48:56 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <orKdnUX4dZLk1c_eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<orKdnUX4dZLk1c_eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129916936.369406.54520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Peter Hansen wrote:
> themightydoyle at gmail.com wrote:
> > Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
> > a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
> > timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.
>
> As Dennis points out, your original attempt was destined to fail because
> you were calling the method from the main thread, not the one you wanted
> to kill.  Threads don't magically execute any methods that are attached
> to the Thread instance just because they're attached.  You have to
> actually call those methods *from* the thread, which means from the
> run() method or from any of the routines it calls (whether they are
> methods on that Thread or not), but it must be done in the context of
> the thread you want to raise exceptions in or it won't work.
>
> More importantly, you've now described your use case (and I hope that of
> the OP as well, since he hasn't replied yet): killing threads.
>
> This is an oft-discussed topic here, and searching the archives will
> probably give you lots more answers, but the short answer is you cannot
> kill a thread in Python (except by exiting the entire process). Instead,
> as you've discovered, you must ask it nicely to exit.  The nearly
> canonical approach to doing that is as follows:
>
> class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>      def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>          threading.Thread.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
>          self._keepRunning = True
>
>      def stop(self, timeout=None):
>          self._keepRunning = False
>          # optional: wait for thread to exit
>          self.join(timeout=timeout)
>
>      def run(self):
>          while self._keepRunning:
>              # do stuff here
>
> Now you can do things like this:
>
> thread = MyThread()
> thread.start()
> # other stuff...
> thread.stop()    # block here until the thread exits
> 
> I hope that clarifies things a little more...
> 
> -Peter



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 20 18:04:28 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:04:28 +0200
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rqijcFkv765U2@uni-berlin.de>

Ernesto wrote:
> What's the easiest and quickest way to execute a compiled C "command
> line interface" program THROUGH Python?

I don't know what you mean by THROUGH. But the subprocess, popen2 and 
os-modules deal with calling other programs. Try them in that order.

Diez


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 10:15:31 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:15:31 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com><4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net><1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews><slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org><7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><1128676408.129888.297840@g	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr
	<43465736$0$11160$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <di5vu3$h82$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Christophe" wrote:

> I mean, why not ? Why does the compiler let me do that when you know
> perfectly that that code is incorrect :

> def f():
>       return "a" + 5

probably because the following set is rather small:

    bugs caused by invalid operations involving only literals, that are not
    discovered during initial testing

</F> 





From onurb at xiludom.gro  Wed Oct 12 04:33:21 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:33:21 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <1128888628.643764@yasure>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
Message-ID: <434cca53$0$9727$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Quoth "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>:
> | Alex Stapleton wrote
> |
> | > Except it is interpreted.
> |
> | except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte code, which
> | is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a module is up
> | to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.
> 
> Fair to say that byte code is interpreted?  Seems to require an
> application we commonly call an interpreter.

If so, Java is interpreted too. The only difference between Java and
Python here is that Python is smart enough to call the compiler by itself.

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 17 01:41:39 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:41:39 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <divdik$vmj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber at 130.133.1.4...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>>     You don't get it. The point is, you can pick any Linux
>>     distribution and
>> still use the same applications. This is exactly what Microsoft
>> *doesn't* want. They want applications to be locked to Microsoft OSes.
>> For then to do this, applications have to be as tied to the OS as
>> possible. The browser as a target platform threatened this Microsoft
>> vision, so Microsoft reacted by trying to corner the browser market
>> and balkanize Java.

> And when are we going to see this browser as a target platform?

    It may not happen, or it may. The future of computing is not known at 
this point.

>>     You can agree or disagree with the rationale and by sympathetic
>>     with or
>> antagonistic to Microsoft's motive. But these are historical facts.

> No: the historical fact is that MS whiped Netscape of the planet. That
> you come up with "They were afraid that everybody would be running NS
> Office online using Netscape" is just a guess.

    No, it's well-documented fact that Microsoft's entry into the browser 
war was precisely because they feared that browsers would become the new 
operating systems.

> MS just seems to ignore a certain development for some time, then state
> it's not significant, and next they are an important player. This is not
> limited to "MS missed the Internet, almost...". They don't miss
> anything, they just don't jump on every hype.

    What is your explanation for why MS decided it was so important to 
control the browser market? You think MS was too stupid to realize that 
web-based applications threatened to make desktop OSes interchangeable?

    DS




From sjsobol at JustThe.net  Sat Oct 15 22:18:28 2005
From: sjsobol at JustThe.net (Steve Sobol)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:18:28 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <disc70$ij9$3@ratbert.glorb.com>

Jeroen Wenting wrote:

> no, they got their by clever marketing and generally having a product that 
> was easier to use for the average user than anything the competition made 
> and a lot more powerful than other products created for their main target 
> market.

People forget that Bill Gates may have dabbled in programming, but his 
background is in business. He dropped out of Harvard Business School, not 
MIT. :)

-- 
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek   888-480-4638   PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Company website: http://JustThe.net/
Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/
E: sjsobol at JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 06:30:19 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:30:19 +0100
Subject: How can I call a subclass method from parent class ?
In-Reply-To: <1129802410.942839.268480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129780540.378921.269250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129798854.968065.99860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129802410.942839.268480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj7rjn$b45$1@sea.gmane.org>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> Jason  Lai wrote:
> 
>>If you use a newstyle class, e.g. class A(object), then you can get the
>>superclass with cls.__base__. You could also use super(cls,cls),
>>although note that it returns a <super> object that isn't exactly the
>>same thing as a class -- but good enough for just accessing attributes.
>>
>>Make sure to check that your superclass isn't <object>, otherwise it'll
>>complain about <object> not having a foo attribute. __base__ is
>>probably easier for this purpose. Also be careful with multiple
>>inheritance.
>>
>>No such thing as __super though.
> 
> thanks, it works. Though I don't quite understand what super(cls,cls)
> returns, and it doesn't work if I do a super(cls,cls).foo(). But
> cls.__base__.foo() do the trick.
> 
> thankfully, I don't have multiple inheritance.
> 
> 
In point of fact super() is most useful when you *do* have multiple 
inheritance. The classic example is when classes B and C have a common 
supertype A, and then class D is a subclass of both B and C.

Under these circumstances (the so-called "diamond-shaped inheritance 
graph") it can be problematic to ensure that each superclass's methods 
are called exactly once when methods are being extended rather than 
overridden: should a D call B's method, which then calls A's, and if so 
how does a D ensure that C's method gets called without it also calling 
A's method.

Calls to super() are used to effectively place a linearised oredering on 
the superclasses to ansure that the diamond-shaped inheritance pattern 
is correctly handled to give the correct method resolution order.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Fri Oct 21 05:34:39 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:39 +0200
Subject: A macro editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202230230.13901@urchin.earth.li>
References: <gKR5f.107432$US.72731@news.ono.com> <3rq8c5Fl3m4bU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202230230.13901@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <4358b630$0$21294$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>> So - _I_ think the better user-experience comes froma well-working
>> easy to use REPL to quickly give the scripts a try.
> 
> 
> I'd agree with that. Which is better, a difficult language with lots of
> fancy tools to help you write it, or an easy language?
> 
> I don't know Groovy, but having looked at some examples, it looks like
> jave with a makeover, which, compared to python, sounds like a difficult
> language.
> 
> As for python vs ruby, i can't really offer any insights on the
> languages themselves. Personally, i'd go for python, but that's because
> i know python and not ruby.

I know a bit of Ruby, and my *very humble* opinion is that Python is
easier for beginners - *but* I'm probably (certainly) biased here, so
you'd better find some non-programmers  having learn Ruby in a similar
context and ask them about this (with the buzzword around Rails, you
find such people easily...)

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 13:46:31 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:46:31 +0200
Subject: Extending Python
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di13hj$10a$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Tuvas" wrote:

>I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C code. I
> have an application built in C that I need to be able to use in Python.

http://docs.python.org/ext/ext.html

</F> 





From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Thu Oct  6 12:48:01 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 16:48:01 GMT
Subject: Extending Python
References: <1128533901.767470.279220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkah66.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 5 Oct 2005 10:38:21 -0700, Tuvas <brp13 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am looking for a good tutorial on how to extend python with C code. I
> have an application built in C that I need to be able to use in Python.
> I have searched through various sources, starting of course with the
> Python site itself, and others, but I felt a bit lacking from the
> Python site, it seems it was only made for those who installed the
> source distribution, as for the other people...

So -- install the source distribution, then! You only want one or two
example files from it anyway. I have seen no need for it, personally.
You certainly don't have to compile your own Python to extend it.

> Anyways, thanks for the
> help!

Some work in progress, for what it's worth. Might serve as an example, but
don't trust it too much. It's yet-another literal interface to libpcap.

  http://snipabacken.dyndns.org/~grahn/tmp/pcap2/

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From joe at invalid.address  Sun Oct 16 11:26:53 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 10:26:53 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <m33bn1cwjm.fsf@invalid.address>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> joe at invalid.address wrote:
> 
> > John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> > 
> >> joe at invalid.address wrote:
> >> 
> >> > John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> >> > 
> >> >> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
> >> >> > news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...

> >> web based applications that work with any browser make OS
> >> irrelevant -> not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter
> >> which Linux distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet
> >> people seem to make a point of which distribution they use.
> > 
> > A linux distribution isn't an OS, it's a distribution, so I'm not sure
> > what your point here is.
> 
> Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web
> based, and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions
> matter? It doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example,
> OpenOffice. Yet people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one
> reason is that people like to belong to a group. So even if it
> really doesn't matter which OS you are going to use to access a web
> application, or even which browser, people will pick a certain
> browser, and a certain OS, just because.

Thanks for spelling it out for me. Now could you spell out what this
has to do with Microsoft's intentions?

On second thought, don't bother, I think you're talking about
something else, and I'm not sure what that is.

Joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 01:01:38 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:01:38 -0700
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

microsnot <microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm new to Python but am wondering what IDE Python developers use? I use Mac
> OS X 10.4.2. I have PythonIDE which comes with MacPython but I don't think
> that has even rudimentary "intellisense". Xcode and Eclipse don't seem to
> support Python out of the box. Suggestions for plugins for Eclipse would
> also be nice.

On the Mac, I think the XCode integration you get with PyObjC is
probably best.  I know there are plugins for Eclipse but haven't tried
any personally, so it's hard to make suggestions (I'm a dinosaur, and I
prefer to develop with GVim + a command-line tool, such as Python's own
interactive mode...).  I'm not sure if BlackAdder (simplest and fastest
to learn) and WingIDE (probably THE one most powerful Python IDE) work
on the Mac (shame on me, as a Python AND Mac enthusiast, for not having
tried them...), but they're surely worth investigating.  Ditto for
ActiveState's Komodo tool...


Alex


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 05:13:39 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:13:39 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:49:27 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>
>    I guess I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that 
>Microsoft demanded you pay them per machine you sold under the table in the 
>absence of a written contract that said that? Or are you simply saying that 
>they changed the terms of your agreement when it came up for renewal?

They were demanding I sell a copy of windows with every machine I
constructed, whether the customer wanted or not, even if the customer
had us install some other OS.

The threat was that I did not comply, they would put me out of
business by arranging that my wholesalers would stop selling any MS
product to me, with veiled threat of even worse strangulation.

What I don't think you understand this threat would was just as
effective in putting he out of business as threatening to sending in
goons every week to smash my shop to pieces.  

I could at least have a chance of legal recourse with the vandals.

It will be very hard to prosecute MS for their crimes because they
commit them much the way the Mafia does.

No one has any paper. Everyone  was terrified of MS and would never
dream of going public.  I have talked about this publicly many times
because it always looked as if I were going to die in a few years
anyway. 

To put this in perspective, IBM's salespeople made much nastier
threats in their heyday.  Dick Toewes, head of Inland Natural Gas, was
in charge of a tender for a new mainframe to do billing.  I was
working on the Univac bid at the time.  He said that the IBM salesman
said to him, "We know you have an eight year old little girl.  We know
she walks along X street every day on her way to school.  It would be
a terrible thing if somebody hurt her."

I wrote a tender for about $1 million in computer equipment for BC
Hydro gas. There were many bidders hoping to get a foothold in a
solidly IBM shop.  IBM sent a weird chap to see me, dressed as a
gangster, talking in a gangster accent, with a strange tic like Dustin
Hoffman's  Ratso Rizzo in midnight cowboy. He made no specific
threats, but his act was straight out of Hollywood,"you knows what I
means" warning me about the "consequences" of picking anything but
IBM, how I might get the reputation as unreliable..."

There were the standard tactics on $1 million contracts. Imagine the
dirty tricks for the big ones. Mind you, back then $1 million was
serious money, especially when you considered the no-bid followons
over the years.


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 19 04:54:14 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 01:54:14 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
Message-ID: <dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Luke Webber" <luke at webber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:4355ea72$1_3 at news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...

> As much as I hate to jump in on this thread, well I'm gonna...

> I think you'll find that companies have all manner of legal obligations. 
> Certainly to their shareholders, but beyond that they have an obligation 
> to their clients, who pay them for their services, and to any individual 
> or entity which might be harmed by their actions.

    They have obligations to their clients because (and only because) 
failure to provide the services they contract to provide will result in 
lawsuits and harm to the shareholders. All other obligations come from the 
harm these failures will do to the shareholders. First and formost, 
companies exist to do the will of their shareholders.

> A classic case in point would be Philip Morris, who did everything they 
> could to protect their shareholders, but who shirked their duty of care to 
> their customers and the the public at large. They have since paid heavily 
> for that failure.

    You mean their shareholders paid heavily. ;)

>>>If that is not what you mean, I think you need to hedge more.

>>     I was perfectly clear. This is a lot of deliberate misunderstanding 
>> going on in this thread and very little of it is from my side.

> All that means to me is that your misunderstanding is not deliberate. <g>

    No misunderstanding. Corporations exist specifically to do the will of 
their shareholders. There are other theoritcal models of corporations (for 
example, wherein the shareholders only provide the capital to execute the 
will of the directors), but Microsoft is certainly not a corporation of this 
type.

    DS




From jlocc at fau.edu  Fri Oct  7 13:25:24 2005
From: jlocc at fau.edu (jlocc at fau.edu)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 10:25:24 -0700
Subject: Pythoncard mental block
Message-ID: <1128705924.303422.31650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi!!

I am working on a school project and I decided to use PythonCard and
wxPython for my GUI development. I need a password window that will
block unwanted users from the system. I got the pop-up password
question to work...

   def on_openBackground(self, event):

        result = dialog.textEntryDialog(self,
                                    'System',
                                    'Please enter your password: ',
                                    '')

.....but I don't exactly remember how to check if the entered password
is correct. Say I hard code the password to be 'hello', then how would
I check if this was the input or if it wasn't???

Sorry, I've got a mental block....I'm using the latest
everything....thankssss!!



From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 16:44:14 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 13:44:14 -0700
Subject: Tricky import question.
In-Reply-To: <435e906d.948197646@news.oz.net>
References: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2546.1130249396.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130253287.721535.322370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130255468.174460.227300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<435e906d.948197646@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1130273053.992708.186960@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

All I was trying to do with my feeble code attempt, was to return a
reference to the imported module so that I could do...

result = instanceref.main()

where main was a function within the import.

Having glanced at the code in the import section of the help files all
morning, when I actually sat down and read it it turned out the example
code was what I needed.

Its always the way.  

Many thanks for taking time out to reply Bengt.



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Wed Oct 26 03:03:01 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:03:01 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
> news:0hm233-0ut.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>     I don't know what drugs you're on, but the McDonald's corporation most 
> certainly is in the business of the wholesale distribution of burger 
> patties. One key reason to become a franchisee is to access their wholesale 
> distribution network.

Then they are not in the wholesale business. So lock the drugs cabinet.

(What they are marketting is a "brand", complete with clowns and
arches, and a secret formula for making up patties in buns).


Peter


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 14 03:24:13 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:24:13 +0200
Subject: Problem processing Chinese
References: <mailman.2053.1129267961.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dinmds$akd$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> I believe that topic related to Chinese processing was
> discussed before.  I could not dig out the info I want
> from the mail list archive.
> 
> My Python script reads some Chinese text and then
> split a line delimited by white spaces.  I got lists
> like
> 
> ['\xbc\xc7\xd5\xdf', '\xd0\xbb\xbd\xf0\xbb\xa2',
> '\xa1\xa2']
> 
> I had
> 
> #-*- coding: gbk -*-
> 
> on top of the script.
> 
> My Windows 2000 system's default language is Chinese
> (GB2312) and  displays Chinese perfectly.
> 
> I don't know how to configure python or what else I
> need to properly process such two-byte-character text.
> 
> Thanks.

Suppose you have a file with the following contents:

>>> file("chinese.txt").read()
'\xbc\xc7\xd5\xdf \xd0\xbb\xbd\xf0\xbb\xa2 \xa1\xa2'

Then it's best to open it via codecs -- of course you have to know the
encoding:

>>> codecs.open("chinese.txt", "r", "gbk").read()
u'\u8bb0\u8005 \u8c22\u91d1\u864e \u3001'

This may still look strange to you but it's the unicode string's repr().
If sys.stdout.encoding is properly set on your system you can just print it:

>>> u = codecs.open("chinese.txt", "r", "gbk").read()
>>> print u
?? ??? ?

If that fails, provide the encoding explicitly:

>>> print u.encode("utf-8") # probably "gbk" instead of "utf-8" on your
system
?? ??? ?

Because now you are in unicode all further operations are performed on
characters rather than bytes. Processing Chinese is no longer more
difficult than any language that confines itself to plain ASCII. 
But if you split your text into a list

>>> u.split()
[u'\u8bb0\u8005', u'\u8c22\u91d1\u864e', u'\u3001']

you probably think you are back to square one. That is because Python prints
the repr() of the list items (otherwise a comma would give the impression
that the list contains more items than it actually does). To get the actual
characters, choose an item explicitly

>>> items = u.split()
>>> print items[0]
??

or convert the entire list to a string of your liking, e. g:

>>> print u"[%s]" % u", ".join(items)
[??, ???, ?]

Peter



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 16:42:21 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:42:21 -0700
Subject: Hygenic Macros
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.18.13.32.15.720512@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
	<pan.2005.10.18.13.32.15.720512@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dj3mne$5eu$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:23:43 -0700, David Pokorny wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
>>good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
>>multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
>>multiplication). In Python, I have to type
>>
>>import Numeric
>>matrixmultiply(A,B)
>>
>>which makes my code almost unreadable.
> 
> Yes, I see what you mean, it is pretty confusing. It almost looks like
> a function that multiplies two matrices and returns the result. 
> 
> Have you tried coming up with better names for your arguments than A and
> B? Many people find that using self-documenting variable names helps make
> code easier to understand.

Well, to be fair, his example was trivial. When you have more
complicated matrix expressions with transposes and conjugations and more
matrixmultiplies than you can shake a stick at, it gets ugly pretty fast.

  F = dot(dot(Z, F),transpose(conjugate(Z)))

versus

  from scipy import *
  F = mat(F)
  Z = mat(Z)
  F = Z*F*Z.H

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From http  Sun Oct  9 08:15:10 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 05:15:10 -0700
Subject: assigning in nested functions
References: <mailman.1791.1128858980.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xy852opip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jena <jena at vlakosim.com> writes:
> # BEGIN CODE
> def test():
>   def x():
>     print a
>     a=2 # ***
>  a=1
>   x()
>   print a
> 
> test()
> # END CODE
> 
> This code fails (on statement print a in def x), if I omit line marked
> ***, it works (it prints 1\n1\n). It look like when I assign variable
> in nested function, I cannot access variable in container function.
> I need to assign variable in container function, is any way to do this?

No, this is a big bug in Python, there's no way to specify what scope
you want.  The compiler implicitly decides that since you set a to
something inside x(), a must be a local variable.  The principle that
explicit is better than implicit was ignored here.

There's a kludgy workaround which is to box the variable:

  def test():
    def x():
      print a[0]
      a[0] = 2
    a = [1]
    print a[0]

However, the arbiters of Python style would prefer that you use a
class instance instead.


From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 13:38:32 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 10:38:32 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Frame Size
Message-ID: <1130521112.659385.148750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm tyring to set the size of the window that is opened when you open a
Tkinter window, without much sucess. I have tried changing the heigth
and width atributes, but it doesn't do anything. I tried using the
grid_propagate command that I saw to use, but made the window even
smaller... What can I do? Thanks!



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Tue Oct 11 07:41:17 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:41:17 +0200
Subject: A problem while using urllib
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
   ...
>    try:
>       webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url)
>    except urllib2.URLError:
   ...
>    webPage.close()
>    return True
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
>    But every time when I ran to the 70 to 75 urls (that means 70-75
> urls have been tested via this way), the program will crash and all the
> urls left will raise urllib2.URLError until the program exits. I tried
> many ways to work it out, using urllib, set a sleep(1) in the filter (I
> thought it was the massive urls crashed the program). But none works.
> BTW, if I set the url from which the program crashed to base url, the
> program will still crashed at the 70-75 url. How can I solve this
> problem? thanks for your help

Sure looks like a resource leak somewhere (probably leaving a file open
until your program hits some wall of maximum simultaneously open files),
but I can't reproduce it here (MacOSX, tried both Python 2.3.5 and
2.4.1).  What version of Python are you using, and on what platform?
Maybe a simple Python upgrade might fix your problem...


Alex


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Tue Oct  4 15:21:47 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:21:47 -0700
Subject: Newbie regular expression ?
In-Reply-To: <20051004191505.GA32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
References: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20051004191505.GA32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20051004192147.GB32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 04, Micah Elliott wrote:
>    $ man 3 fnmatch

Actually "man 7 glob" would be better (assuming you've got *nix). Also
note that globs are not regular expressions.  "pydoc glob" is another
reference.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah dot elliott dot name>


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Tue Oct 18 06:33:10 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:33:10 GMT
Subject: Bloodhound.Exploit.49 trojan found in MIMEBase.pyc
Message-ID: <Gb45f.43406$U9.41138@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Symantec antivirus has apparently picked up a virus in my Python 2.4 
(under cygwin):

Scan type:  Scheduled Scan
Event:  Threat Found!
Threat: Bloodhound.Exploit.49
File:  C:\cygwin\lib\python2.4\email\MIMEBase.pyc
Location:  Quarantine
Action taken:  Quarantine succeeded


There's info to be found on various pages, but it's a pretty terse 
explanation:
http://secunia.com/virus_information/22534/bloodhound.exploit.49/

Has anyone had this also? Is it perhaps a false positive?
alex


From tim at tt1lock.org  Mon Oct 17 08:28:10 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:28:10 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <IoGBLG.HEC@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.47.47.90025@zync.co.uk>
Message-ID: <IoI7yy.IoB@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Richard Gration <richard at zync.co.uk> wrote or quoted:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:51:16 +0000, Tim Tyler wrote:

> > Acorn computers.  Manufacturers of the best computer I ever owned.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that was an Arc ... ? I never used one but everyone
> I've ever talked to who used one said it was fantastic. Myself I was
> pretty impressed with the BBC B ...

I had a BBC B - and then a couple of Archimedies computers.

The BBC computer was cool.  However, the Archimedies had a 32-bit
RISC chip in 1987, was quite affordable, and did rather blow the
socks off its predecessor.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From kylotan at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 08:31:22 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 05:31:22 -0700
Subject: bug or feature?
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<di0c50$bab$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1516.1128511183.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128515482.807324.265000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> it's also mentioned in chapter 4 of the tutorial:
>
>     http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006710000000000000000
>
>      "*Important warning*: The default value is evaluated only once. This
>     makes a difference when the default is a mutable object such as a list,
>     dictionary, or instances of most classes. "

Perhaps it would be a good idea if Python actually raised a warning
(SyntaxWarning?) if you use an unnamed list or dict as a default
argument. This would doubtless help quite a few beginners. And for
people who really do want that behaviour, working around the warning
should involve minimal extra code, with extra clarity thrown in for
free.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 10 21:47:53 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:47:53 -0500
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
In-Reply-To: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <20051011014753.GB21569@unpythonic.net>

I'm not aware of any PEPs on the subject, but google groups turns up some past
threads.  Here's one from February 2004:
	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/d5fcc1c8825a60dc/96856af647ce71d5
I didn't immediately find this message of Guido's that everyone's talking about
as this thread began, though.

Jeff
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From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Sat Oct 22 00:35:13 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:35:13 -0700
Subject: access dictionary with preferred order ?
In-Reply-To: <1129954732.769162.62150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129954732.769162.62150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510212135.13578.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

This is an "ordered dict":

   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/438823

On Friday 21 October 2005 21:18, bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if there is a dictionary data type that allows me to
> define the order of access when iterating it using items/keys etc. ?
>
> An example:
>
> a=dict(a=dict(), c=dict(), h=dict())
> prefer=['e','h', 'a']
>
> for x in a.values: print x
>
> would give me
> {h:dict()}, {a:dict()}, then the rest which I don't care about the
> order ?

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 22:06:31 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:06:31 -0400
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
In-Reply-To: <1128735204.407666.193440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F33E5F713BBA265E175380EA2870@phx.gbl>


>Perhaps a better idea is to present the user with a choice that cannot
>be deviated from, along the lines of...
>
>def main():
>   print "1.\tStart"
>   print "2.\tSomething Else"
>   print "3.\tStop"
>
>   x = raw_input()
>   if x is '1': print 'Start'
>   elif x is '2': print 'Something else'
>   elif x is '3': print 'End'
>   else: main()

Right but see what if the user wants to type Start? I've already used the 
number menu but too many people get confused by it. . .Any other ideas?

Thanks,

-Ivan

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From massimopone at libero.it  Mon Oct 10 04:52:22 2005
From: massimopone at libero.it (maxxx_77)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 01:52:22 -0700
Subject: Python and windows
Message-ID: <1128934342.895575.258500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've designed a virtual keyboard (on screen)with Python. I've used
Pithonwin and Tkinter. Well, I'd like to use this keyboard with some
Windows's Application.
This keyboard should find which application is running (with an Active
window) and then write on it.
The keybord should remain always on desktop.
I've wrote a script that interacts with Word. I've created a COM object
with 'win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application')'.     But I'm not
very happy of this solution because I'd like to create the object only
if Word is really running. So for all (or almost all) Windows's
Applications.
I'm sorry for my bad english.
Thanks for your time for me.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 10 04:43:06 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 08:43:06 GMT
Subject: assigning in nested functions
References: <mailman.1791.1128858980.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndkkacq.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-09, jena schreef <jena at vlakosim.com>:
> Hi
> I have code
>
> # BEGIN CODE
> def test():
>   def x():
>     print a
>     a=2 # ***
>  
>   a=1
>   x()
>   print a
>
> test()
> # END CODE
>
> This code fails (on statement print a in def x), if I omit line marked 
> ***, it works (it prints 1\n1\n). It look like when I assign variable in 
> nested function, I cannot access variable in container function.
> I need to assign variable in container function, is any way to do this?

I think the best solution with current python in this situation is to
wrap the nested scope variable in a one element list and use slice
notation to change the variable in a more nested function. Something like the
following:

  def test():
  
    def x():
      print a[0]
      a[:] = [2]
  
    a = [1]
    x()
    print a[0]
  
  test()

Another solution, IMO more workable if you have more of these variables
is to put them all in a "Scope" object aka Rec, Bunch and probably some
other names and various implementatiosn. (I don't remember from who this
one is. Something like the following:

class Scope(object):
     def __init__(__, **kwargs):
         for key,value in kwargs.items():
             setattr(__, key, value)
     __getitem__ = getattr
     __setitem__ = setattr

def test():

  def x():
    print scope.a
    scope.a = 2

  scope = Scope(a=1)
  x()
  print scope.a

test()

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 22 14:54:24 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:54:24 -0400
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2319.1129827209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.11.05.42.788160@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <861x2dbcwv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> py> def tester(n):
> ...     s1 = ""
> ...     s2 = "%s" * n
> ...     bytes = tuple([chr(i % 256) for i in range(n)])
> ...     t1 = time.time()
> ...     for i in range(n):
> ...             s1 = s1 + chr(i % 256)
> ...     t1 = time.time() - t1
> ...     t2 = time.time()
> ...     s2 = s2 % bytes
> ...     t2 = time.time() - t2
> ...     assert s1 == s2
> ...     print t1, t2
> ...
> py> 
> py> tester(x)
> 3.24212408066 0.01252317428
> py> tester(x)
> 2.58376598358 0.01238489151
> py> tester(x)
> 2.76262307167 0.01474809646
>
> The string formatting is two orders of magnitude faster than the
> concatenation. The speed difference becomes even more obvious when you
> increase the number of strings being concatenated:

The test isn't right - the addition test case includes the time to
convert the number into a char, including taking a modulo.

I couldn't resist adding the .join idiom to this test:

>>> def tester(n):
...  l1 = [chr(i % 256) for i in range(n)]
...  s1 = ""
...  t1 = time.time()
...  for c in l1:
...   s1 += c
...  t1 = time.time() - t1
...  s2 = '%s' * n
...  l2 = tuple(chr(i % 256) for i in range(n))
...  t2 = time.time()
...  s2 = s2 % l2
...  t2 = time.time() - t2
...  t3 = time.time()
...  s3 = ''.join(l2)
...  t3 = time.time() - t3
...  assert s1 == s2
...  assert s1 == s3
...  print t1, t2, t3
... 
>>> tester(x)
0.0551731586456 0.0251281261444 0.0264830589294
>>> tester(x)
0.0585241317749 0.0239250659943 0.0256059169769
>>> tester(x)
0.0544500350952 0.0271301269531 0.0232360363007

The "order of magnitude" now falls to a factor of two. The original
version of the test on my box also showed an order of magnitude
difference, so this isn't an implementation difference.

This version still includes the overhead of the for loop in the test.

The join idiom isn't enough faster to make a difference.

> py> tester(x*10)
> 2888.56399703 0.13130998611

>>> tester(x * 10)
1.22272014618 0.252701997757 0.27273607254
>>> tester(x * 10)
1.21779584885 0.255345106125 0.242965936661
>>> tester(x * 10)
1.25092792511 0.311630964279 0.241738080978
>>> 

Here we get the addition idiom being closer to a factor of four
instead of two slower. The .joim idiom is still nearly identical.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mark.delon at gmx.at  Fri Oct 21 04:29:36 2005
From: mark.delon at gmx.at (Mark Delon)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:29:36 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: connect to https unpossible. Please help.
References: <hv0hl1l151cs6qi0e03jm0if3bhibloj72@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <24946.1129883376@www48.gmx.net>

Hi Tim,

really than u very much!

I think u have helped me!

I will try, that what u said.

I have found probably simplier solution.
Is it so?

...but without success:-(.

I want to download some URLs via python script.
With some URLs I have success with some NOT.
Why?
I do following:
===============
1. Login to https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/welcome/register/loginpage.phtml
via Mozzila browser 
2. I try to download some URLs using cookies: see script bellow:
3. Some pages works (e.g. news, but on some pages I get:
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_stock.py", line 11, in ?
    r =
opener.open("https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/trading/wt.phtml?isin=NL0000240000&exid=ETR")
  File "C:\Programme\Python24\lib\urllib2.py", line 358, in open
    response = self._open(req, data)
  File "C:\Programme\Python24\lib\urllib2.py", line 376, in _open
    '_open', req)
  File "C:\Programme\Python24\lib\urllib2.py", line 337, in _call_chain
    result = func(*args)
  File "C:\Programme\Python24\lib\urllib2.py", line 1029, in https_open
    return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPSConnection, req)
  File "C:\Programme\Python24\lib\urllib2.py", line 996, in do_open
    raise URLError(err)
urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error (10061, 'Connection refused')>

Details- Script:
=================
I make login via Mozilla browser 

import os, cookielib, urllib2

cj = cookielib.MozillaCookieJar()
os.environ['HOME']= r"C:\tmp\COOKIE"
cj.load(os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], "cookies.txt"))
opener = urllib2.build_opener(urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cj))
# first URLs download works
r =
opener.open("http://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/news/index.phtml?notation=7536885")
# second URLs download DOES NOT work ... WHY?
r =
opener.open("https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/trading/wt.phtml?isin=NL0000240000&exid=ETR")
#
h = r.readlines()
g = open("test.html","w")
g.writelines(h)
g.close()
os.system("test.html")

Thans realy for all ideas!


sincerely 
mark

> --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com>
> An: python-list at python.org
> Betreff: Re: connect to https unpossible. Please help.
> Datum: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:05:45 GMT
> 
> "Mark Delon" <mark.delon at gmx.at> wrote:
> >
> >i want to log via python script to https page:
> >
> >'https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/'
> >#
> >But it does not work.
> >
> >I am using following code(see below)
> >
> >Has somebody any ideas?
> >How can I get to this https page?
> >Need I to know some infos from "provider"(certificates, etc)?
> >Thank u very much !
> 
> You are trying to set this up to use HTTP BasicAuth authorization, but
> this
> page is not using HTTP authorization.  You can recognize HTTP
> authorization
> by the separate browser window that pops up to ask for your username and
> password.
> 
> In this case, the username and password fields are just ordinary fields on
> a form.  What you need to do is read the HTTP on that page, and figure out
> howfiues for those fields.  In this case, the
> form data goes to
> https://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/welcome/loginaction.phtml, and you'll need
> to encode 'login' and 'pwd' fields in the POST data.
> 
> However, that isn't the end of your trouble.  That page will almost
> certainly send you a cookie, which you will need to send back with every
> request.
> -- 
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

-- 
Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 19 19:44:54 2005
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 16:44:54 -0700
Subject: Controlling exception handling of logging module
References: <1129746812.846802.216550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129748183.204853.75350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129749220.506462.21800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129765494.830841.17450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


sj wrote:
> Thanks, but my point wasn't fixing the bug.  I'd like the logging
> module to raise an exception on this occasion (rather than print and
> consume the error) so that I can find the bug easily.  If those two
> lines were part of 10,000-line code, I'd have to check all logging
> statements one-by-one.

You'll need to subclass your handler and redefine handleError(), which
is called when an exception is raised during a handler's emit()
operation. See

http://www.red-dove.com/logging/public/logging.Handler-class.html#handleError



From nun at example.com  Mon Oct 24 16:11:13 2005
From: nun at example.com (Mitja Trampus)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:11:13 +0200
Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
In-Reply-To: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
References: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Cdb7f.915$h6.309316@news.siol.net>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The following code outputs the actual HTML text to the browser, not the
> interpreted text.
> 
> Any idea ?
> 
> html_ok = """
> Content-Type: text/html\n
 > <html>
 > ...
 > """

Avoid the starting newline (before content-type).
Add at least TWO newlines after content-type.

Or use a package to handle the HTTP stuff for you.


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 23:36:26 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:36:26 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address> <bSa5f.15276$Hm3.12093@fe09.lga>
	<m3fyqybs9s.fsf@invalid.address>
	<lddbl11ns8i3pdh8i7dh98e0dsufkrpfab@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj4evq$q0a$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:lddbl11ns8i3pdh8i7dh98e0dsufkrpfab at 4ax.com...

> On 18 Oct 2005 13:21:19 -0500, joe at invalid.address wrote or quoted :

>>Yes, he deserves credit for what he did. He nevertheless created a
>>false impression in what he said. If he hadn't created that false
>>impression, there would not have been any jokes about him. If all he
>>said was what he actually did, this would never have been an issue.

> It is standard procedure to twist another politician's words and tease
> him like a gang of 4 year olds.

    I agree. Gore made an very unfortunate choice of words that left him 
open to pot shot type ridicule and abuse. There's really no reason to think 
he was actually trying to take credit for the creation of the Internet 
itself.

    DS




From twic at urchin.earth.li  Thu Oct 20 17:21:21 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:21:21 +0100
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <4357f5fc$0$1738$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<4357f5fc$0$1738$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202220120.13901@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Pierre Quentel wrote:

> grunar at gmail.com a ?crit :
>
>> My solution is sqlstring. A single-purpose library: to create SQL
>> statement objects.
>
> With the same starting point - I don't like writing SQL strings inside Python 
> code either - I have tested a different approach : use the Python list 
> comprehension / generator expression syntax for the select requests
>
> For instance :
>
> s = query(r.name for r in planes if r.speed > 500)
> for item in s:
> 	print s
>
> query is a class whose instances are created with the generator 
> expression as argument. The matching SQL request is built in the 
> __init__ method, here :
>
> SELECT r.name FROM planes AS r WHERE r.speed > 500

That, sir, is absolute genius.

Evil as fuck, but still absolute genius.

tom

-- 
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END

From durumdara at mailpont.hu  Mon Oct  3 10:28:04 2005
From: durumdara at mailpont.hu (durumdara at mailpont.hu)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:28:04 +0200
Subject: Py2Exe + kinterbasdb
Message-ID: <43413FF4.5030308@mailpont.hu>

Hi !

I compile an application (that working good in native python) to exe 
with py2exe.
In native mode (python.exe ReportApp.py) it is working, the reports are 
created good.
But when I try to create a report from the compiled exe, it is show an 
error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Report01.pyc", line 164, in OnButton1Button
  File "report_01.pyc", line 12, in OpenDBForReport
  File "report_db.pyc", line 11, in OpenDB
  File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 472, in connect
  File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 558, in __init__
  File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 367, in _ensureInitialized
  File "kinterbasdb\__init__.pyc", line 315, in init
ImportError: No module named typeconv_backcompat

The OpenDB is do this:

def OpenDB(paramdb):
    dsn=paramdb.get('PATH','')
    usr=paramdb.get('USER','sys'+'dba')
    pwd=paramdb.get('PASSWORD','any')
    global DB
    DB=kim.connect(dsn=dsn, user=usr,password=pwd)
    return DB

It seems to be that the problem occured in __init__.pyc.
How to I prevent it ?

Please help me !
Thanks. For any help.

K. O. R. : dd





From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 06:32:07 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:32:07 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
	<pjhhk1p0lqtduekojm7er9i6g84fjef12n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86zmpjkml4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> There is no fundamental reason that formatted spam should have an
> easier time penetrating your defenses than plain text spam.

Formatted spam can include pictures of words. That's a common spam
tactic - send a multipart/alternative with a text part that look like
a letter from aunt jane - and mention that you're sending a
picture. The picture part is basically a jpeg of a flyer for the spam
companies product.

If you've got a spam filter that can determine that a picture of words
is spam, I'd like to know about it.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct 27 02:10:01 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:10:01 GMT
Subject: Hi All - Newby 
References: <435ddd20$1@news1.veridas.net>
	<435deb2c$0$652$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <435ebf0a@news1.veridas.net>
Message-ID: <5nr0m1l6b8jllon8pmhhv9a94h3ke4ib7o@4ax.com>

"Ask" <pu at pmville.com> wrote:
>
>I'm simply using the IDLE editor to hand code, then compiling and running.

That doesn't help.  wxPython, Tkinter, and pyQt are just a few of the
packages that can be used to put windows on the screen from Python.  Python
has no built-in user interface stuff, so whatever you are using to place a
window is something you downloaded, or something that was installed with
your Python.  That's what we need to find out.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From bonono at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 07:07:34 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 04:07:34 -0700
Subject: How can I call a subclass method from parent class ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2301.1129804424.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129780540.378921.269250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129798854.968065.99860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129802410.942839.268480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2301.1129804424.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129806454.474483.192470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the explanation but some how my code fail and since I don't
need multiple inheritance for the moment, I would settle for the not so
clean version.

The documentation of super is not very clear to me too. As seen in my
code, I am using classmethod which may cause some problem.

Steve Holden wrote:

> In point of fact super() is most useful when you *do* have multiple
> inheritance. The classic example is when classes B and C have a common
> supertype A, and then class D is a subclass of both B and C.
>
> Under these circumstances (the so-called "diamond-shaped inheritance
> graph") it can be problematic to ensure that each superclass's methods
> are called exactly once when methods are being extended rather than
> overridden: should a D call B's method, which then calls A's, and if so
> how does a D ensure that C's method gets called without it also calling
> A's method.
>
> Calls to super() are used to effectively place a linearised oredering on
> the superclasses to ansure that the diamond-shaped inheritance pattern
> is correctly handled to give the correct method resolution order.
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From nephish at xit.net  Tue Oct 25 08:52:36 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:52:36 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <64drl1960ek973jvlcm9rg4vbuaj13cuaq@4ax.com>
References: <4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129927722.835095.191620@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11lilpklp9mib0f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129935678.372329.107850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130194705.182317.124380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<64drl1960ek973jvlcm9rg4vbuaj13cuaq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130244756.737249.260940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

well, for what i tried, ticstrings just contained a list of times
formatted like
[10-21 09:15, 10-21 09:44, 10-21 09:59, and so on.....]
i did write mine a little different than the example that Grant gave me
because its a little
different application of time.

i think i am having trouble knowing exactly what the set xtics line is
looking for.
thanks



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 26 12:55:39 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 16:55:39 GMT
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<11lv66njrkkln8b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96FBB65CE3EB0duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> Uh, no.  Isn't what we're doing here top-quoting?  The quoted
> stuff is at the top. Everything is in chronological order.  I
> think what you're referring to is "top-posting".

Yes, Iain King already pointed this out.


From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 01:36:07 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 22:36:07 -0700
Subject: Importing at runtime
References: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86k6g25fsq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1130218567.011328.42210@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Imports happen at run time. Beware starting threads in the code run at
> import time in each module, though - there are some nasty bugs lurking
> there. Instead, start the threads in functions invoked from the main
> routine.

I have run into trouble trying to do that before.  Thanks for the
reminder Mike.



From rrr at ronadam.com  Fri Oct 28 14:49:45 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:49:45 GMT
Subject: tkinter blues (greens, reds, ...)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2684.1130523517.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130519159.921821.164420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2684.1130523517.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dpu8f.214915$p_1.133627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Steve Holden wrote:

> Sean McIlroy wrote:
> 
>> hi all
>>
>> i recently wrote a script that implements a puzzle. the interface
>> mostly consists of a bunch of colored disks on a tkinter canvas. the
>> problem is that the disks change their colors in ways other than the
>> way they're supposed to. it certainly isn't just a bug in my script,
>> since i can sometimes change the color of certain disks just by taking
>> focus off of the window and then bringing it back again! does this
>> sound like some known bug in tkinter? and if so, is there a recommended
>> way of working around it? if it matters, i'm using python 2.3 under
>> windows 95. any advice will be much appreciated.
>>
> It sounds to me much more like a bug in your script, to me at least. 
> Change of focus generates windowing events in much the same way as 
> clicking a button or hitting a key does, so I don't understand why you 
> think that "just [by] taking the focus off the window and bringing it 
> back again" shouldn't change anything.
> 
> For more specific insights we'd need to see some code, but sometimes 
> just changing your own focus from "Tkinter has a bug" to "my code has a 
> bug" is enough to help one find out what the problem really is. If you 
> have a soft toy I'd recommend you sit it down somewhere and explain to 
> it in great detail exactly why it can't be a bug in your program. You 
> may find you discover the error with no further assistance.
> 
> If not, fire the toy and ask again :-)
> 
> regards
>  Steve

To add to Steve's humorous perosonificatious techniques.  You should 
probably check that you aren't inadvertently using some sort of object 
id or window handle as a color value.  As long as the object you use 
returns an integer you won't get an error message, but instead get 
different colors when the canvas object is updated.  Like when changing 
the focus.

Another place to look is where you may be adding or converting rgb color 
values.

This function convert decimal rgb values to a hex rgb string that 
tkinter expects.

     def rgb(red, green, blue):
         """ Convert RGB value of 0 to 255 to
             hex Tkinter color string.
         """
         return '#%02x%02x%02x' % (red, green, blue)

Cheers,
    Ron



From jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk  Mon Oct 17 06:24:09 2005
From: jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk (Jim O'D)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:24:09 +0100
Subject: array subset could be improved? -repost ;)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2090.1129326218.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dioa3k$4g0$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<mailman.2090.1129326218.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <divtt4$91f$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>


> With the new numeric, you'll be able to do:
> 
> negatives = a[a<0]
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> f
> 

Ooh, that's nice.

Jim


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 26 03:36:47 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 07:36:47 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlbnq$6jm$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlsflt.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlon4$f2k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <slrndlucge.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-25, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-25, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
>> 
>
>>>Which is exactly why a < b on sets returns True xor False, but cmp(a,b) 
>>>throws an exception.
>> 
>> 
>> I don't see the conection.
>> 
>> The documentation states that cmp(a,b) will return a negative value if
>> a < b. So why should it throw an exception?
>
> Because it's useful that cmp(a1, a2) should either (return a value) or 
> (throw an exception) for any element a1, a2 within type(a1) cross 
> type(a2).  If cmp sometimes is okay and sometimes throws an exception, 
> then it leads to weird borkage in things like trees.

Oh no, not "we have to protect the programmer" argument again.

This kind of behaviour will manifest itself soon enough in testing.
Almost eacht time some addition is suggested that could help
with finding bugs, it gets rejected that because such bugs will be
found soon enough with proper testing.

And in order to protect one specific case, you limit programmers
the use in all other cases where it could be usefull.

> With that in mind, not all sets are comparable.  {a} and {b} have no 
> comparison relationship, as you've pointed out, aside from not-equal. 
> I'll get to why "not-equal" is a bad idea below.
>
>>>cmp(a,b) asks for their relative rankings in some total ordering.
>> 
>> 
>> The documentation doesn't state that. I also didn't find anything in
>> the documentation on how the programmer should code in order to
>> enforce this.
>
> Most programmers are simply programmers; they haven't had the benefit of 
> a couple years' pure-math education, so the distinction between "partial 
> order" and "total order" is esoteric at best.

So. these people are not familiar with higher order functions either.
Do you think we should make python a language only for the not too
educated. 

> With that in mind, compare should conform, as best as possible, to 
> "intuitive" behavior of comparison.  Since comparisons are mostly done 
> on numbers, an extension of comparisons should behave "as much like 
> numbers" as possible.

IMO cmp(set([0]), set([0,1])) giving a result of -1, is much more
number like behaviour than throwing an exception. With numbers
we have that a < b implies cmp(a,b) < 0. So the most number like
behaviour for sets would also be that a < b would imply cmp(a,b) < 0.

>> Maybe the original idea was that cmp provided some total ordering,
>> maybe the general idea is that cmp should provide a total ordering,
>> but that is not documented, nor is there any documentation in
>> helping the programmer in this. 
>
> I doubt that anyone was thinking about it in such depth.  My bet is that 
> the thought process goes this way:

Which seems to be my biggest frustration with python. Things are
often enough not thought out in depth.

>>>>>from decimal import Decimal
>>>>>Zero = Decimal(0)
>>>>>cmp( ( ) , Zero)
>> 
>> -1
>> 
>>>>>cmp(Zero, 1)
>> 
>> -1
>> 
>>>>>cmp(1, ( ) )
>> 
>> -1
>
> I'd argue that the wart here is that cmp doesn't throw an exception, not 
> that it returns inconsistent results.  This is a classic case of 
> incomparable objects, and saying that 1 < an empty tuple is bordering on 
> meaningless.

I wont argue with you here, but it is what python gives as now.
Changing this behaviour is not going to happen.

>>>For a 
>>>space that does not have a total ordering, cmp(a,b) is meaningless at 
>>>best and dangerous at worst.
>> 
>> 
>> The current specs and implemantation are.
>> 
>> I see nothing wrong with a function that would provide four kinds of
>> results when given two elements. The same results as cmp gives now
>> when it applies and None or other appropiate value or a raised
>> exception when not.
>> 
>> Given how little this functionality differs from the current cmp,
>> I don't see why it couldn't replace the current cmp.
>
> My biggest complaint here is about returning None or IncomparableValue; 
> if that happens, then all code that relies on cmp returning a numeric 
> result will have to be rewritten.

I don't know. There are two possibilities.

1) The user is working with a total order. In that case the None
or IncomparableValues won't be returned anyway so nothing about
his code has to change.

2) The user is working with a partial order. In that case cmp
doesn't provide consistent results so the use of cmp in this
case was a bug anyway.

> Comparing incomparables is an exceptional case, and hence it should 
> raise an exception.
>
> As for saying that cmp should return some times and raise an exception 
> other times, I just find it squicky.

But cmp already behaves this way. The only difference would be that
the decision would be made based on the values of the objects instead
of only their class.

> Admittedly, this is entirely up to 
> the class designer, and your proposed guideline wouldn't change cmp's 
> behavior for clases that /are/ totally ordered.
>
> Then again, sets excepted, your guideline doesn't seem very applicable 
> in standard library code.

Well AFAIAC this isn't specific about library code.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 02:05:47 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:05:47 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

George Sakkis <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:
   ...
> > manipulation of a heap to place an item in the right spot, but with 4-5
> > or a few more sources might not make an impact at all.
> 
> Unless you're talking about hundreds or thousands sources, it probably
> won't. I would still go for the heap solution since IMO the resulting
> code it's more readable and easier to understand.

I'm not so sure about either sentence...:

Helen:~/pynut/samp alex$ python merger.py --numstreams=10 --minlen=100
--how=S
Best time for 10 loops: 0.247116088867

Helen:~/pynut/samp alex$ python merger.py --numstreams=10 --minlen=100
--how=H
Best time for 10 loops: 0.10344004631

i.e., a heap solution may be over 4 times faster than a sort-based one
(in the following implementations).  Readability seems quite comparable
(skipping the rest of the infrastructure, which generates random sorted
streams and ensures a stream is exhausted and verifies it etc etc):

def merge_by_sort(streams):
  sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next] for i, s in enumerate(streams)]
  while sources:
    sources.sort(reverse=True)
    best_source = sources[-1]
    yield best_source[0]
    try: best_source[0] = best_source[-1]()
    except StopIteration: sources.pop()

def merge_by_heap(streams):
  sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next] for i, s in enumerate(streams)]
  heapq.heapify(sources)
  while sources:
    best_source = sources[0]
    yield best_source[0]
    try: best_source[0] = best_source[-1]()
    except StopIteration: heapq.heappop(sources)
    else: heapq.heapreplace(sources, best_source)


Hmmm, I wonder if something like merge_by_heap would be a good candidate
for itertool.  Raymond...?


Alex


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 10:52:54 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:52:54 GMT
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.31.12.34.04.915261@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.31.12.34.04.915261@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <q5r9f.26014$m%6.3851@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:35:19 +0000, Alex Hunsley wrote:
> 
> 
>>There's no really specific questions in this post, but I'm looking for 
>>people's thought on the issues within...
>>
>>
>>The two main versions I've encountered for data pseudo-hiding 
>>(encapsulation) in python are:
>>
>>method 1:
>>
>>_X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
>>       know that this data should be private.
> 
> 
> Not quite.
> 
> In modules, names starting with one or more underscore (_X, __X, etc.) are
> not copied over when you import the module using "from module import *".

And you can also control what gets exported by defining __all__ I 
believe....

> 
> In classes, instance._X is just a convention "this is private, don't touch
> unless you really have to".

ah, ok.

 >[snip some more details]

Thanks for your helpful response, it's clarifying a few things for me!

> What are you doing, manually keeping a list of "allowed" attributes which
> you check before hand?
> 


Heheh. No, I'm not actually 'doing' anything yet, I'm  findout out what 
is good practise in python land.


> There is, at least, an argument in favour of using that technique for
> enforcing something like attribute declarations:
> 
>     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>         if name in self.ALLOWED:
>             self.__dict__[name] = value
>         else:
>             raise ValueError("That attribute hasn't been declared.")
> 
> although that just leads into the whole "bondage and domination language"
> can of worms.
> 
> In any case, you already have a perfectly good list of attributes.
> Actually, two lists, one for class attributes and one for instance
> attributes:
> 
> instance.__class__.__dict__.keys() 
> instance.__dict__.keys() 
[snip]

okeydoke.
thanks for the advice!
alex


From http  Fri Oct  7 09:50:11 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 06:50:11 -0700
Subject: Can't extend function type
References: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3qmpnjFfp2h3U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xy855a12k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> Well - function inheritance is not known so far in python - and in no
> other language I know.

Yeah, I didn't really expect it to work, but it seems like a logical
consequence of type/class unification.

> Basically you want __mult__ being part of f or g when python
> encounters something like this
> 
> f * g
> 
> But then how did you plan to declare f?

Come to think of it, that's also a wart.  I'd been thinking of
using a decorator, as Christopher Subich suggested,

    @composable
    def f(x): ...

but it's not how the decorator could actually work (other than through
gross CPython-specific hacks).

> So the only way to achieve this with current semantics is to make f
> anf g objects with a call methods. In that very moment, you're done -
> as extending from object is no problem :)

Yeah, I thought of that, but felt it wasn't in the proper spirit :)


From microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com  Mon Oct 24 06:47:08 2005
From: microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com (microsnot)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:47:08 +1000
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130044581.644967.254230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<GCF6f.268294$1i.188500@pd7tw2no>
	<1130072509.630373.146270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BF82F8CC.898D%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>

> Mac users of SPE collected money for me to buy a Mac. This means that
> in the near future SPE will be especially improved for Mac. So feedback
> from Mac users is more than welcome and will probably be taken into
> account. SPE is a free, open source IDE with a lot of features like a
> debugger, UML diagrams and a GUI designer.

Sounds good and the price is right. :D
I think I'll wait until you get the Mac and get the installer ready as I'm a
bit of a clutz when it comes to the shell. :)



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct  9 08:04:39 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:04:39 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <3qsfaoFgkbh1U1@uni-berlin.de>

> If you create a closure, using a memoization technique as per the original
> post, and then call type() on that closure, Python reports <type 'function'>. 

Because it is. The closure is only sort of an extension to the locals() 
available to that function. Not more, not less.
> 
> If you use dir() on that closure-that-Python-calls-a-function, it tells
> you that there is an attribute "func_closure". But ordinary functions that
> aren't closures also have that attribute.

Because there is no difference between them - a function _can_ have a 
closure, the same way a HttpRequest _can_ have POST-data or not. That 
doesn't make it different.

You are of course right that one _could_ have implemented this with 
different classes. But as it happens, it isn't.

> 
> According to my tests, ordinary functions have None as the func_closure
> attribute, but I don't know if that will always be the case, or just the
> few examples I tested it. With a sample size of three, I have no
> confidence that I've found a bullet-proof test.

See this small testscript how to expose the closures content -- however 
I'm not familiar with the mechanics the bind "some_variable" to the 
cell-objects content. But actually I don't care...

def closure_test():
     some_variable = {}
     print "%x" % id(some_variable)
     def get(x):
	return some_variable[x]
     def set(x,v):
	some_variable[x] = v
     return get, set



g, s = closure_test()

s(10, 20)
print g(10)
print s.func_closure[0]

Diez


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  7 10:24:42 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:24:42 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11kd19ajdtkoi6f@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>>>In sports (thats "sport" for you Brits):
>> 
> OK, so how do you account for the execresence "That will give you a 
> savings of 20%", which usage is common in America?

Dunno.  Like much else in English (both American and British)
"that's just the way it is".

> Then again, there's room for infinite disagreement about these
> topics.

Which makes it an ideal Usenet thread. :)

> I mentioned a while ago that I disliked the English on a
> bumper sticker I liked, which read
>
> "Some village in Texas is missing their idiot".

That would definitely be "is" and "its" in the US.

> Several people defended this, saying that a village could use
> the plural possessive "their". I personally found it odd (and
> essentially non-grammatical) not because either the singular
> or plural forms should be mandated but because this one
> manages to mix them up. So
>
> "Some village in Texas are missing their idiot"

At least that one is consistent, though it sounds "wrong" to US
ears.

> would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only
> the idiot alluded to would say), while my preferred choice
> would be
>
> "Some village in Texas is missing its idiot".
>
> Then again, what can you expect from a country whose leader
> pronounces "nuclear" as though it were spelled "nucular"?

Don't get me started on _that_ one.  I found it particularly
horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it "nucular" -- he had
studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at
least be able pronounce the word.

> I suppose it's only a matter of time before they change the
> spelling just like they did with "aluminium".

:)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Oh my GOD -- the
                                  at               SUN just fell into YANKEE
                               visi.com            STADIUM!!


From shkelley at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 12:52:34 2005
From: shkelley at gmail.com (shkelley at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 09:52:34 -0700
Subject: pushing python to multiple windows machines
In-Reply-To: <1129902835_5439@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1129895063.490493.26360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129902835_5439@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1129913554.083580.203990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Roger & Larry.  Both of your suggestions are very helpful!

-shawn



From free.condiments at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 09:07:22 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 06:07:22 -0700
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
In-Reply-To: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128776842.451257.172730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'd always assumed it was doubleyew-ecks python, but it could be wicks
python, or similar.



From invalidemail at aerojockey.com  Tue Oct 18 18:10:43 2005
From: invalidemail at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 15:10:43 -0700
Subject: Intersection of lists/sets -- with a catch
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2233.1129670908.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2233.1129670908.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129673443.076527.152520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


James Stroud wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I find myself in this situation from time to time: I want to compare two lists
> of arbitrary objects and (1) find those unique to the first list, (2) find
> those unique to the second list, (3) find those that overlap. But here is the
> catch: comparison is not straight-forward. For example, I will want to
> compare 2 objects based on a set of common attributes. These two objects need
> not be members of the same class, etc. A function might help to illustrate:
>
> def test_elements(element1, element2):
>   """
>   Returns bool.
>   """
>   # any evaluation can follow
>   return (element1.att_a == element2.att_a) and \
>          (element1.att_b == element2.att_b)


[snip]

> Its probably obvious to everyone that this type of task seems perfect for
> sets. However, it does not seem that sets can be used in the following way,
> using a hypothetical "comparator" function. The "comparator" would be
> analagous to a function passed to the list.sort() method. Such a device would
> crush the previous code to the following very straight-forward statements:
>
> some_set = Set(some_list, comparator=test_elements)
> another_set = Set(another_list, comparator=test_elements)
> overlaps = some_set.intersection(another_set)
> unique_some = some_set.difference(another_set)
> unique_another = another_set.difference(some_set)
>
> I am under the personal opinion that such a modification to the set type would
> make it vastly more flexible, if it does not already have this ability.
>
> Any thoughts on how I might accomplish either technique or any thoughts on how
> to make my code more straightforward would be greatly appreciated.


Howabout something like this (untested):

class CmpProxy(object):
    def __init__(self,obj):
        self.obj = obj
    def __eq__(self,other):
        return (self.obj.att_a == other.obj.att_b
                and self.obj.att_b == other.obj.att_b)
    def __hash__(self):
        return hash((self.obj.att_a,self.obj.att_b))

set_a = set(CmpProxy(x) for x in list_a)
set_b = set(CmpProxy(y) for y in list_b)
overlaps = [ z.obj for z in set_a.intersection(set.b) ]


Carl Banks



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct  5 13:13:23 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:13:23 +0200
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net> <di0j8t$29ah$1@news.tsua.net>
	<ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <di11j0$m0r$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> I?want?the?script?by?default?to?be?agnostic?about?the?libraries
> logging.??When?I?want?to?see?the?log?messages,?I?can?always?do
> 
> logging.basicConfig()
> 
> in the script to see the log messages.
> 
> I get the behaviour that I want when I add a 'NULL' handler in the
> library, but is this really how logging is intended to be used?

I would support ...err, what's the opposite of a feature request?
Anyway, another hack, slightly more lightweight/intrusive:

logging.root.manager.emittedNoHandlerWarning = True

Peter



From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Fri Oct  7 07:27:28 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:27:28 -0400
Subject: C/API Clarification
Message-ID: <1128684448.4472.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>

First of all, let me say I really do appreciate--and frequently use--the
ample and easy to read Python documentation. However, there are a few
things I'm still unclear on, even after asking multiple questions here
on the list (thanks everyone!) and reading the "Extending" and
"Reference" docs from start to finish. I'm new to Python extension
writing--but I'm learning fast. Still, I have a few questions that would
make my weekend so much better if I had some guidance on them or,
better, examples of other people's working code. :) (Real code, not
over-simplified examples that don't ever make sense in the real
world) :) 

Most of my woes are the result of trying to wrap some highly dynamic C++
code. People, of course, are quick to say "use Boost"--which I'm sure is
great--but doesn't actually teach me anything about Python. :)

1. Nowhere in the docs was I able to see an example of a custom object
using anything but a METH_NOARGS method. This is pretty silly since I
would assume that most class methods take a few arguments. I'm using:

	PyObject* foo(cstruct* self, PyObject* args, PyObject* kargs)

...and it works, but I'm not even really sure if this is right or where
in the world I got the idea from! According to the docs, METH_VARARGS is
(PyObject*, PyObject*)? My prototype shouldn't even compile... but it
does, even at -Wall. This is an area I really feel like the docs should
elaborate on. All of the tp_* functions are infinitely easier to
implement as they have very specific purposes. However, very little
attention is given to just general type methods, though it could be just
me missing something. :)

2. No where in the docs does it show how to "correctly" create an
instance of your custom PyTypeObject in C (rather than in the
interpreter). I'm using:

	PyObject* newobject = _PyObject_New(&PyType_myType);
        PyObject* nulltuple = Py_BuildValue("()");
        myType_init((cstruct*)(newobject), nulltuple, NULL);

...and it works (or appears to so far), but I really doubt this is how
it's done. I'm guessing I'm not supposed to go anywhere near the
_PyObject_New function. :)

3. I'm not able to return the "self" argument (useful, for instance,
when you want to chain a group of method calls) without screwing things
up really, really bad. For example:

PyObject* somefunc(cstruct* self, PyObject* args, PyObject* kargs) {
	self->pointerToData->doSomeStuff();
	
	return (PyObject*)(self);
}

...returns "something"; it has the methods you would expect, but trying
to use the object when it gets back to the interpreter is pretty much
undefined behavior. :) It's seen as a "<refcnt...>" instance in the
interpreter, even though a dir() shows it still has the methods you
would expect.

I'm sorry if I come off as a newb or sound preachy--it certainly isn't
my intention. I love Python and will continue using it even if I never
quite grok it's C API. :)

Weeeeeeeeeee.



From kn0805 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:19:29 2005
From: kn0805 at hotmail.com (ktxn1020)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:19:29 -0700
Subject: unable to import os
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1851.1128967974.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <BAY101-F34FBE0905E65637D5FD2A6C7790@phx.gbl>
	<mailman.1851.1128967974.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129054769.405747.170570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

It works fine independently, but still not work when run with Python
for Delphi.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:30:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:30:18 +0200
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130193322.138313.320480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djkqes$jl$1@sea.gmane.org>

eric.pederson at gmail.com wrote:

> The output I was contemplating was a DOM "DNA" - that is the DOM
> without the instances of the elements or their data, a bare tree, a
> prototype tree based on what is in the document (rather than what is
> legal to include in the document).
>
> Just enough data that for an arbitrary element I would know:
>
> 1) whether the element was in a document
> 2) where to find it (the chain of parents)

how to you identify the elements ?  do they have unique tags, unique identifiers,
or some other "globally unique" identifier (attributes or contents) ?

</F> 





From http  Fri Oct 28 07:29:47 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 04:29:47 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com writes:
> I want to scan a file byte for byte for occurences of the the four byte
> pattern 0x00000100. I've tried with this:

use re.search or string.find.  The simplest way is just read the whole
file into memory first.  If the file is too big, you have to read it in
chunks and include some hair to notice if the four byte pattern straddles
two adjoining chunks.


From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 17 06:12:52 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:12:52 -0400
Subject: Outdated documentation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2145.1129534138.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2145.1129534138.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43537733$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> Is this the good place to post?

Follow the "About this document" link at the bottom of any page of Python docs for information about submitting change requests.

Kent


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 09:13:33 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:13:33 +0100
Subject: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <di0cmp$d11$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<di0c50$bab$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<di0cmp$d11$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <di0jhm$3c7$1@sea.gmane.org>

beza1e1:

> Coming back from a bug hunt, i am not sure what to think of this python
> behaviour. Here is a demo program:
> 
> class A:
>    def __init__(self, lst=[]):
>       self.lst = lst
> 
> a = A()
> b = A()
> b.lst.append("hallo")
> print a.lst # output: ["hallo"]
> 
> The point seems to be, that lst=[] creates a class attribute (correct
> name?), which is shared by all instances of A. So a.lst ist the same
> object as b.lst, despite the fact, that object a is different to object
> b.
> 
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>Interestingly I couldn't find this in the FAQ, though it *is* a
>>frequently-asked question [note: my not finding it doesn't guarantee
>>it's not there].
> 
> 
> it's there:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-default-values-shared-between-objects
> 
> (maybe "default values" should be changed to "default argument values")
> 
I couldn't believe it wasn't, but you're right: it should be easier to 
find, and a change of wording may do that.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Thu Oct 13 17:19:37 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:19:37 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129229839.857857.288180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2004.1129217662.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129229839.857857.288180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051013211937.GD5267@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 13, Grig Gheorghiu wrote:
> This is really synchronicity in action! I started to think yesterday
> about putting together a project that measures the 'goodness' of Python
> packages in the PyPI Cheese Shop repository. I call it the "Cheesecake"
> project. I took the liberty of citing Micah's post in a blog entry that
> I just posted:
> <http://agiletesting.blogspot.com/2005/10/cheesecake-how-tasty-is-your-code.html>

Grig, I think you're onto something here; good idea.  I have no
experience with CPANTS, and I'm not sure how many of my ideals could be
checked programmatically.  But if your Cheesecake tool comes into
fruition, here are some things that I would personally find useful:

* A command-line version that I could easily run on my projects.

* An output that gives more than just an index/score; maybe a bunch of
  stats/indicators like pylint.  I.e., it would be say "pypkglint" or
  "pydistchecker", a higher level lint that operates on packages instead
  of just source files.

* Some checks that might be useful

   - Module and package naming conventions. (PEP-8 describes
     module-naming, but I see this broken more often than followed in
     practice.  And it is silent on package names, but the tutorial uses
     capitalized names.)  Some consistency here would be nice.

   - Existence of standard files.  ESR goes into detail on this in his
     "Art of UNIX Programming" book (pp 452).

   - Existence of standard directories (those I mentioned before).

   - Output of checkee "--help" should satisfy some standards.  I presently
     check my own tools by running "help2man" which forces me to setup
     optparse to follow a strict format.  I have some active RFEs on
     optik (optparse) to address this.

   - Use of distutils.  Maybe just a check for setup.py ?

   - Consistency of module length.  Not sure about this one, but you
     might lower the score if some package modules are 10 lines while
     others are 10KLOC.

   - Number of modules per package.  Maybe 4..20 is a good amount?

   - Extra points for existence of something like "api.html", which
     indicates that epydoc/pydoc generated API info.

   - Extra points for .svn/CVS/RCS directories indicating that version
     control is in place.  Maybe even glarking of version numbers where
     high numbers indicate that code is checked in frequently.

   - Use of ReST in documentation, or even in docstrings.

   - Count of unit tests.  Do module names map to test_<modulename> in
     test directory?  How many testXXX functions exist?

   - A summary calculation of pylint/pychecker scores for each module.

   - Point deduction (or fail!) if any .doc/.xls, etc. files included in
     distribution.

   - Extra points for use of modules that indicate extra usability was
     incorporated, such as: gettext (multi-language), optparse (clean
     UI), configparser (fine control), etc.

* A PEP describing the conventions (though some will argue that PEPs
  should be enforcable by the compiler, so maybe just a "Cheesecake
  Convention" document).

* And of course anything that CPANTS offers :-)

I'm sure people here have more ideas for quality indicators...

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 16 06:54:48 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:54:48 +0200
Subject: "Microsoft has never made a computer in its existence."
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com><11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com><t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es><11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <ditbhq$99f$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Microsoft has never made a computer in its existence. Not one.

http://www.microsoft.com/xbox/

</F>





From luizgeron at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:37:28 2005
From: luizgeron at gmail.com (Luiz Geron)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:37:28 -0700
Subject: PDO and database abstraction
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2537.1130242413.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130240852.794081.158320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2537.1130242413.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130243848.428608.146180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Excuse me if I wasn't clear. I don't want to use ORMs, since I really
have to execute arbitrary sql queries, and then I can't use this object
mapping. I'm going to write my own wrapper like you did, it is not so
difficult to do.



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 12 19:33:51 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:33:51 -0400
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <%iQ2f.68939$lq6.51076@fed1read01>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<A_CdnfnrU4zBT9feRVn-jw@telcove.net>
	<slrndkmk7i.p68.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<%iQ2f.68939$lq6.51076@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <4rmdnWnaD-rQANDenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@powergate.ca>

John Waycott wrote:
> I wrote a simple Python program that acts as a buffer between a 
> transaction network and a database server, writing the transaction logs 
> to a file that the database reads the next day for billing. The simple 
> design decoupled the database from network so it wasn't stresed during 
> high-volume times. The two systems (one for redundancy) that run the 
> Python program have been running for six years.

Six years?  With no downtime at all for the server?  That's a lot of 
"9s" of reliability...

Must still be using Python 1.5.2 as well...

-Peter


From contact at matchfinder.com.au  Fri Oct  7 06:44:26 2005
From: contact at matchfinder.com.au (contact at matchfinder.com.au)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 06:44:26 -0400
Subject: Question
In-Reply-To: <200510071043.j97AhrvA011441@host.matchfinder.com.au>
References: <200510071043.j97AhrvA011441@host.matchfinder.com.au>
Message-ID: <200510071044.j97AiQTr011562@host.matchfinder.com.au>

Hi, this email address does not exist. Please go to the site and use the correct form to send your message.

No one has seen this message.

Thanks
Matchfinder


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 21 04:46:36 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:46:36 +0100
Subject: python and outlook
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D2272@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[dt]

> Are there any links or sites on how to read outlook mail boxes or
address book?

Easiest thing to probably to automate the Outlook COM object or a MAPI
Session
for CDO access. You can do this easily with the pywin32 extensions.

http://pywin32.sf.net

You can then use pretty much any published example from around the net.

Example (to print the subject of each item in the inbox):

<code>
import win32com.client

outlook = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch
("Outlook.Application")
namespace = outlook.GetNamespace ("MAPI")
inbox = namespace.GetDefaultFolder
(win32com.client.constants.olFolderInbox)
for i in range (inbox.Items.Count):
  message = inbox.Items[i+1]
  print message.Subject
</code>

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Sun Oct 16 17:13:13 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:13:13 +0200
Subject: popen4
Message-ID: <Fnz4f.39703$133.25538@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Hi all. I'm trying to execute system commands and capture the output by 
using popen4:

stdout example:
>>>exec_cmd = popen2.popen4("echo hello!")
>>>output = exec_cmd[0].read()
hello

stderr example:
>>>exec_cmd = popen2.popen4("echobv hello!")
>>>output = exec_cmd[0].read()
Unrecognized command

The problem occurs when I try to execute interactive commands like ftp, 
python intepreter etc...
In this case the program crashes without even giving an error.
Suggestions?

Regards




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 21 06:38:19 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:38:19 -0400
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129727900.662174.275420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129571521.699077.224300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<f6adnYR0Tv4NpsnenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
	<1129646761.521348.52230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<8MudnZpGf80SLMjeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129727418.181264.161000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129727900.662174.275420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <QZOdnfxFcvOeWMXeRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

dcrespo wrote:
> Ok, sorry about the above question. I solved it adding this to the main
> thread:
> 
> try:
>     SrvrTCP = module.ThreadedTCPServer(ip,port)
>     SrvrTCP.start()
> except Exception, description:
>     MsgBox(self,"TCPServer
> Error:\n\n"+str(description),title="TCPServer",style=wx.OK |
> wx.ICON_ERROR)
>     return
> 
> Peter, thank you very much.

You're quite welcome.  It's nice to be able to provide a "perfect" 
answer, for a change. :-)

One suggestion about the above: "description" is actually the exception 
instance (the object), not just the description.  The except statement 
can take two items after: the exception type(s) to catch and, 
optionally, a name to bind to the exception instance.  But since 
exception objects know how to represent themselves as strings, calling 
str() on it gives you the description you wanted.  Therefore it would be 
more readable/correct to say this:

except Exception, ex:
     MsgBox(..... str(ex) ... )

But I'm happy it works either way!

-Peter


From uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com  Wed Oct 26 03:28:49 2005
From: uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com (uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:28:49 -0700
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <Dtt7f.168843$xl6.157765@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Dtt7f.168843$xl6.157765@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130311728.884961.97530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

which file names do you mean?

-Martin.



From dale at riverhall.nospam.co.uk  Thu Oct 27 03:02:24 2005
From: dale at riverhall.nospam.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:02:24 +0100
Subject: creating/altering the OpenOffice spredsheet docs
References: <o4idnTdJk8V02v3eRVn-oQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <8W_7f.3725$Ty.3260@fe79.usenetserver.com>

Andy Leszczynski <leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam> wrote:

> Any idea how to do that the way ActiveX would be used on M$?
> 
> A.

http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html

-- 
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems - www.riverhall.co.uk



From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 07:43:09 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 04:43:09 -0700
Subject: generic xmerge ?
In-Reply-To: <1h4kvit.1rahfvsg940b6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1129545131.875544.122630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kurr.y4wcn71rpq7x6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129547336.228373.10140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kvit.1rahfvsg940b6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1129549389.561430.203560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

million thanks. So the default compare funcion of heapq also do it like
sort ?

The size of the list is not very large but has the potential of being
run many times(web apps). So I believe second one should be faster(from
the app perspective) as it goes into the optimized code quickly without
all the overheads in the merge case.

Alex Martelli wrote:
> You can do it either way -- simplest, and pretty fast, is to concatenate
> them all and sort the result (the sort method is very good at taking
> advantage of any sorting that may already be present in some parts of
> the list it's sorting), but you can also try a merging approach.  E.g.:
>
>
> import heapq
>
> def merge_by_heap(*lists):
>   sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next]
>                     for i, s in enumerate(map(iter,lists))]
>   heapq.heapify(sources)
>   while sources:
>     best_source = sources[0]
>     yield best_source[0]
>     try: best_source[0] = best_source[-1]()
>     except StopIteration: heapq.heappop(sources)
>     else: heapq.heapreplace(sources, best_source)
>
> Now, L=list(merge_by_heap(l1, l2, l3)) should work, just as well as,
> say, L = sorted(l1+l2+l3).  I suspect the second approach may be faster,
> as well as simpler, but it's best to _measure_ (use the timeit.py module
> from the standard library) if this code is highly speed-critical for
> your overall application.
> 
> 
> Alex



From free.condiments at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 19:45:13 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 16:45:13 -0800
Subject: Pickling and unpickling inherited attributes
References: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130714629.049424.237250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130719512.937363.192750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The reason the state of obj.A and obj.B aren't preserved is because
your __getstate__ and __setstate__ don't preserve them - they only save
obj.C, and you don't make a call to the parent class's respective
methods. Here's what I mean:

>>> import pickle
>>> class Child(Parent):

        __slots__=['C',]
        def __init__(self, c):
                self.C=c
        def __getstate__(self):
                return Parent.__getstate__(self) + (self.C)
        def __setstate__(self, tup):
                self.C = tup.pop()
                Parent.__setstate__(self, tup)

>>> obj = Child('foo')
>>> obj.A = 'bar'
>>> obj.B = 'baz'
>>> objct = pickle.loads(pickle.dumps(obj))
>>> objct.A
'bar'
>>> objct.B
'baz'
>>> objct.C
'foo'



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 18:26:14 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:26:14 +0100
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
In-Reply-To: <200510251501.58135.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>	<86ll0h2so4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<200510251501.58135.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <djmbe5$8ai$1@sea.gmane.org>

James Stroud wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 October 2005 14:27, Mike Meyer wrote:
> 
>>That's your right. Be aware that people will ignore, correct and/or
>>complain about you doing so.
> 
> 
> If I may be a complete ass: That should be "correct and/or complain about 
> *your* doing so."
> 

You *may* be a complete ass. But you don't *appear* to be :-)

now-let's-get-back-to-the-python-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct  9 19:37:25 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:37:25 -0500
Subject: Idle bytecode query on apparently unreachable returns
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510100013390.9135@urchin.earth.li>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510100013390.9135@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <20051009233725.GC6224@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 12:20:13AM +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:
> What puzzles me, though, are bytecodes 17, 39 and 42 - surely these aren't 
> reachable? Does the compiler just throw in a default 'return None' 
> epilogue, with routes there from every code path, even when it's not 
> needed? If so, why?
I think the short answer is "yes".  They're unreachable, and they're thrown in
by default.

It's possible that this could be fixed with a slightly smarter compiler, but
the performance difference is likely to be in the noise.  What's one cache miss
(because the bytecode is slightly larger) compared to the total cycles used
in, say, the LOAD_GLOBAL 'fib'?

My bet is that this optimization would not pay off in measurable run-time
gains.

Jeff
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From stephen at theboulets.net  Fri Oct  7 15:29:23 2005
From: stephen at theboulets.net (stephen at theboulets.net)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 12:29:23 -0700
Subject: Saving an image to file from windows clipboard
Message-ID: <1128713363.664540.84030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I just threw this together because I find myself needing it now and
then. Requires PIL and optionally ImageMagick to convert to png, since
I think PIL is not able yet to convert a bmp to a png. You can of
course use the os.path module instead of the path module. I keep it in
my windows start menu for convenience. Thanks PIL folks!

from PIL import ImageGrab
from os import popen
from path import path

myimage = ImageGrab.grabclipboard()

myfile = path(r'D:\Profiles\csb046.DS\Desktop\screen.bmp')
f = file(myfile,'wb')
myimage.save(f)
f.close()

command = 'convert "' + myfile + '" "' + myfile.replace('bmp','png') +
'"'

popen(command).read()
myfile.remove()

Stephen



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct 16 13:06:44 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:06:44 +0200
Subject: TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
	instance as first argument (got test instance instead)
In-Reply-To: <1129481319.436107.16950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129481319.436107.16950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rffl4Fjc0n2U1@uni-berlin.de>

arotem wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to call an unbound method (PrintInput) with the object
> instance as the first argument but getting the following error:
> "TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
> instance as first argument (got test instance instead)"
> 
> Below is the sample code (test) for this purpose (two files).
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.

The problem is your circular import. When test.py is invoked, it imports 
  input_file.py, which in turn imports test, creating a class bound to 
the name test.test. Then the rest of test is interpreted, creating a 
__main__.test. While both are based on the same code, they are two 
different instances of classes.

To fix this, put your test-class in a separate module, and import that 
from both input_file.py and test.py

Diez


From uuuuuu at me.com  Sat Oct  1 03:29:40 2005
From: uuuuuu at me.com (Rob)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 19:29:40 +1200
Subject: Not defined
Message-ID: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>

When trying the basic tutorial for cgkit I always seem to get a not defined 
error as follows.

Pythonwin GUI

>>> from cgkit import *
>>> Sphere()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'Sphere' is not defined
>>> b=Box(name="Cube", pos=(1.5,2,0))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'Box' is not defined
>>>

I am useing  ver 2.4

A little help would be most appreciated.

Forgive me please if this is not the proper place for this ?  I am trying to 
keep an active brain :)

Regards Gramps





From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 10:14:42 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:14:42 +0300
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <crj7k1t9oqamgnh5m2h3e2iokv7l8pn5ju@4ax.com>
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
	<pan.2005.10.05.12.53.45.534295@remove-this-tammura.at-and.this>
	<crj7k1t9oqamgnh5m2h3e2iokv7l8pn5ju@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <di0n3u$2adm$1@news.tsua.net>


looks sad :(

ok, until the decision not found, i've run my script (if someone have the same problem) using sh-script like this:

#!/bin/sh
while true
do
myscript.py
echo "scrip was fault" | mail -s "run.sh" maksim.kasimov at gmail.com
done



... still works ;)


Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
> Tamer, thanks for your tip.
> 
> I tried Jeff's code:
> 
> import marshal
> f = lambda: None
> code =
> marshal.loads(marshal.dumps(f.func_code).replace('d\0\0S','d\xff\xffS'))
> f.func_code = code
> f()
> 
> saved it as foo.py, than
> 
> C:\Python24\Lib>gdb python
> GNU gdb 5.1.1 (mingw experimental)
> Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you
> are
> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
> conditions.
> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for
> details.
> This GDB was configured as "mingw32"...(no debugging symbols found)...
> (gdb) r foo.py
> Starting program: C:\Python24/python.exe foo.py
> 
> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
> 0x1e027b23 in ?? ()
> (gdb) bt
> #0  0x1e027b23 in ?? ()
> #1  0x00977240 in ?? ()
> #2  0x1e1a82b8 in ?? ()
> Cannot access memory at address 0x7
> (gdb)
> 
> How can I interpret this results? ;)
> 
> Am I right, that I need a debug build of python built with mingw or
> cygwin in Windows?


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 10:37:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:37:02 +1000
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130242672.024469.324530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.12.40.57.426304@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1130247035.969150.281910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.14.37.01.642699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:30:35 -0700, Iain King wrote:

> 
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:17:52 -0700, Iain King wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>> >> Joerg Schuster wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups.
>> >>
>> >> define "more" (101, 200, 1000, 100000, ... ?)
>> >>
>> >> </F>
>> >
>> > The Zero-One-Infinity Rule:
>> >
>> > http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html
>>
>>
>> Nice in principle, not always practical. Sometimes the choice is, "do you
>> want it today with arbitrary limits, or six months from now with bugs
>> but no limits?"
>>
>> If assigning arbitrary limits prevents worse problems, well, then go for
>> the limit. For instance, anyone who has fought browser pops ups ("close
>> one window, and ten more open") may have wished that the browser
>> implemented an arbitrary limit of, say, ten pop ups. Or even zero :-)
>>
> 
> Well, exactly.  Why limit to ten?  The user is either going to want to
> see pop-ups, or not.  So either limit to 0, or to infinity (and indeed,
> this is what most browsers do).

I haven't been troubled by exponentially increasing numbers of pop up
windows for a long, long time. But consider your question "why limit to
ten?" in a wider context.

Elevators always have a weight limit: the lift will operate up to N
kilograms, and stop at N+1. This limit is, in a sense, quite arbitrary,
since that value of N is well below the breaking point of the elevator
cables. Lift engineers, I'm told, use a safety factor of 10 (if the
cable will carry X kg without breaking, set N = X/10). This safety
factor is obviously arbitrary: a more cautious engineer might use a
factor of 100, or even 1000, while another might choose a factor of 5 or
2 or even 1.1. If engineers followed your advice, they would build lifts
that either carried nothing at all, or accepted as much weight until the
cable stretched and snapped.

Perhaps computer programmers would have fewer buffer overflow security
exploits if they took a leaf out of engineers' book and built in a few
more arbitrary safety factors into their data-handling routines. We can
argue whether 256 bytes is long enough for a URL or not, but I think we
can all agree that 3 MB for a URL is more than any person needs.

When you are creating an iterative solution to a problem, the ending
condition is not always well-specified. Trig functions such as sine and
cosine are an easy case: although they theoretically require an infinite
number of terms to generate an exact answer, the terms will eventually
underflow to zero allowing us to stop the calculation.

But unfortunately that isn't the case for all mathematical calculations.
Often, the terms of our sequence do not converge to zero, due to round-off
error. Our answer cycles backwards and forwards between two or more
floating point approximations, e.g. 1.276805 <-> 1.276804. The developer
must make an arbitrary choice to stop after N iterations, if the answer
has not converged. Zero iterations is clearly pointless. One is useless.
And infinite iterations will simply never return an answer. So an
arbitrary choice for N is the only sensible way out.

In a database, we might like to associate (say) multiple phone numbers
with a single account. Most good databases will allow you to do that, but
there is still the question of how to collect that information: you have
to provide some sort of user interface. Now, perhaps you are willing to
build some sort of web-based front-end that allows the user to add new
fields, put their phone number in the new field, with no limit. But
perhaps you are also collecting data using paper forms. So you make an
arbitrary choice: leave two (or three, or ten) boxes for phone numbers.

There are many other reasons why you might decide rationally to impose an
arbitrary limit on some process -- arbitrary does not necessarily mean
"for no good reason". Just make sure that the reason is a good one.


-- 
Steven.



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 14:46:30 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:46:30 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <djlui7$gkc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


<joe at invalid.address> wrote in message 
news:m3pspt8x2b.fsf at invalid.address...

> I'm hesitant to get into this, but I keep wondering why, if there is
> no other competing OS, or not one worth worrying about, the MS
> business agreements are so draconian? Why would a company come up with
> such heavy handed agreements if it wasn't worried about competition?
>
> Yes, I know, they can do whatever they want, it's not a crime,
> etc. However when they use their market position to disallow
> competition, it sounds to me like they're worried about something, and
> trying to squelch it.

    If they have a choice, should their competitors have 1% of the market or 
0%, they'll choose zero. Who wouldn't? What they're worried about is a 
customer going to a store because they advertise that they have Windows and 
being switched to another OS.

    In fact, they weren't draconian. A draconian agreement would have been 
one that prohibited you from selling any other OS if you want to sell 
Microsoft OSes. Instead, what they did was much less restrictive in that it 
only affected discount levels rather than right to resell and only increased 
the cost of selling other operating systems rather than prohibiting them. 
Many other companies totally prohibit you from selling competing products if 
you want to get the wholesale price on their products.

    DS




From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Tue Oct  4 15:11:44 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:11:44 -0500
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
In-Reply-To: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <de34f75033f709a9cb56964ca6c1d210@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Oct 4, 2005, at 2:35 AM, Amir Michail wrote:
> Is there an easy way to execute a python cgi script on a different
> machine from the cgi server?
>
> I could write my own server, but I was wondering if something is
> available that would allow me to use a cgi script as is without
> modification.

What I would try: Set up an SSH account for the CGI to run as on the 
other machine, and set up a passwordless SSH public/private key pair. 
Store the private key on the web server under the account used to run 
CGI programs.

Then write a small "stub" CGI that runs the other CGI via SSH. Not sure 
how environment variables will need to be transferred - SSH may have a 
way to set environment, or you may need a stub on both ends, or just 
build a SSH invocation that runs 'env' on the remote system. Your stub 
could be as simple as:

#!/bin/sh
ssh user at cgi.host.com /usr/bin/env HTTP_HOST="$HTTP_HOST" 
OTHER_ENV_VARS /my/cgi/script "$@"

Depending on your security  needs, you may need to do things with 
alternate shells for the CGI user account, etc., but that can be done. 
And it will probably also need some input sanitization, etc. so you 
aren't executing arbitrary commands.

-Michael



From nil at dev.nul  Sat Oct 15 12:17:36 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:17:36 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:31:53 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:
>
>> "jon" <jon_usenet at capisco.com> wrote in message
>> news:1129216693.445956.155490 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> To take the heat out of the discussion:
>>>
>>> sets are blazingly fast.
>>
>> I'd prefer a (however) rough characterization
>> of computational complexity in terms of Big-Oh
>> (or Big-whatever) *anytime* to marketing-type
>> characterizations like this one...
>
> Oh how naive.

Why is it that even computer science undergrads
are required to learn the basics of Big-Oh and
all that? Are computer scientists really morons,
as Xah Lee suggests? I can't believe it, but
maybe you have a point...

> The marketing department says: "It's O(N), so it is blindingly fast."

I might as well interpret "blindingly fast"
as meaning O(1). - Why not?
  Surely marketing might also have reasoned like
this: "It's O(1), so its blindingly fast".
But I *want*, nay, I *must* know whether it is
O(N) or O(1). So forget about marketingspeak,
it's a deadly poison for developers. It might
be ok to induce grandiose feelings in childish
users - but developers are grown ups: they must
face reality...

> Translation: the amount of computation it does is linearly proportional
> to N. The constant of proportionality is 1e10.
>
> The marketing department says: "Our competitor's product is O(N**2), so it
> runs like a three-legged dog."
>
> Translation: the amount of computation it does is linearly proportional to
> N squared. The constant of proportionality is 1e-100.
>
> You do the maths.
>
> Big O notation is practically useless for judging how fast a single
> algorithm will be, or how one algorithm compares to another.

That's why Knuth liked it so much?
That's why Aho, Hopcroft and Ullman liked it so much?
That's why Gonnet and Baeza-Yates liked it so much?

> It is only useful for telling you how a single algorithm
> will scale as the input increases.

And that's really very useful information indeed.
Since, given such information for the basic data types
and operations, as implemented by the language and
its standard libraries, I stand a real chance of
being able to determine the computational complexity
of the *particular*combination* of data types and
algorithms of my own small utility or of a
critical piece of my wonderful and large application,
on which the future of my company depends, with some
confidence and accuracy.

> It is very common for sensible programmers to fall back on a "less
> efficient" O(N**2) or even O(2**N) algorithm for small amounts of data, if
> that algorithm runs faster than the "more efficient" O(N) or O(log N)
> algorithm. In fact, that's exactly what the sort() method does in Python:
> for small enough lists, say, under 100 elements, it is quicker to run an
> O(N**2) algorithm (shell sort I believe) than it is to perform the
> complex set up for the merge-sort variant used for larger lists.
>
> As for sets, they are based on dicts, which are effectively hash tables.
> Hash tables are O(1), unless there are collisions,

Depending on the "load factor" of the hash tables.
So we would want to ask, if we have very large
lists indeed, how much space needs to be invested
to keep the load factor so low that we can say
that the membership test is O(1). Do A-B and A&B
have to walk the entire hash table (which must be
larger than the sets, because of a load factor
< 1)? Also: the conversion of lists to sets needs
the insertion of N elements into those hash tables.
That alone already makes the overall algorithm
*at*least* O(N). So forget about O(log N).

> in which case the more
> common algorithms degenerate to O(N).

So here, indeed, we have the kind of reasoning that
one ought to be able to deliver, based on what's in
the Python documentation. Luckily, you have that
kind the knowledge of both, how sets are implemented
and what Big-Oh attaches to the hash table operation
of "look up".
  In order to *enable* SUCH reasoning for *everyone*,
starting from the module interface documentation only,
one clearly needs something along the lines that
I was suggesting...

> So, a very rough and ready estimate
> of the complexity of the algorithm using sets would be somewhere between
> O(1) and O(N) depending on the details of Python's algorithms.
>
> So, let's do an experiment, shall we?
>
> from sets import Set
> import time
>
> def compare_and_separate_with_sets(A, B):
>    AB = Set(A+B)
>    A = Set(A)
>    B = Set(B)
>    only_A = list(A-B)
>    only_B = list(B-A)
>    both_AB = list(AB - Set(only_A+only_B))
>    return (only_A, only_B, both_AB)
>
> def timeit(f, args, n):
>    """Time function f when called with *args. For timing purposes,
>    does n calls of f. Returns the average time used per call in seconds.
>    """
>    loopit = range(n)
>    t = time.time()
>    for i in loopit:
>        results = f(*args)
>    t = time.time() - t
>    return t/n
>
> def single_test(N):
>    print ("N = %-8d" % N),
>    A = range(N)
>    B = range(N/2, 3*N/2)
>    return timeit(compare_and_separate_with_sets, (A, B), 20)
>
> def test_Order():
>    # test how compare_and_separate_with_sets scales with size
>    for i in range(7):
>        print single_test(10**i)
>
>
> Now run the test code:
>
> py> test_Order()
> N = 1        0.000219106674194
> N = 10       0.000135183334351

Curious: N=10 takes less time than N=1?

> N = 100      0.000481128692627

Why do we have such a comparatively large jump
here, from N=100 to N=1000? Did hash tables
overflow during conversion or something like
that?

> N = 1000     0.0173740386963
> N = 10000    0.103679180145
> N = 100000   0.655336141586
> N = 1000000  8.12827801704

Doesn't look quite O(n). Not yet...

> In my humble opinion, that's not bad behaviour.
> It looks O(log N) to me,

How could that be? *Every* element of A and B must touched,
if only to be copied: that can't make it O(log(N)).
Also, the conversion of lists to sets must be at least
O(N). And N isn't the right measure anyway. It would probably
have to be in terms of |A| and |B|. For example, if |A| is very
small, as compared to |B|, then A-B and A & B can be determined
rather quickly by only considering elements of A.

> and quite fast too: about 8 seconds to compare and separate two lists of
> one million items each.
>
> The craziest thing is, the amount of time it took to write and test two
> different algorithms was probably 1% of the time it would take to hunt up
> theoretical discussions of what the big O behaviour of the algorithms
> would be.

You must distinguish questions of principle
and questions of muddling through like this
testing bit you've done. It would take me some
time to even be *sure* how to interpret the
result. I would never want to say "it looks
O(log N) to me", as you do, and leave it at
that. Rather, I might say, as you do, "it
looks O(log N) to me", *but* then try to figure
out, given my knowledge of the implementation
(performance wise, based on information that
is sadly missing in the Python documentation),
*why* that might be. Then, if my experiments says
"it looks like O(log N)" AND if my basic
knowledge of the implementation of set and
list primitives says "it should be O(log N)"
as well, I would venture, with some *confidence*,
to claim: "it actually IS O(log N)"....

 You do not compare the convert-it-to-sets-approach
to the single list-walk either. Supposing the OP
had actually sorted lists to begin with, then a
single, simultaneous walk of the lists would be
about as fast as it can get. Very, very likely
*faster* than conversion to sets would be...

Regards,
Christian




From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Wed Oct 12 10:03:29 2005
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:03:29 -0500
Subject: Very dumb question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1960.1129124769.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <434D1211.6010903@designaproduct.biz>
	<mailman.1960.1129124769.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dij53i$17m$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> 
>> I have a program with this code fragment:
>>
>>    print len(data)
>>    print data[:50]
>>    raise SystemExit
>>
>> This prints:
>>
>> 20381
>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
>>
>> But if I change 50 to 51
>>
>>    print len(data)
>>    print data[:51]
>>    raise SystemExit
>>
>> then it prints
>>
>> 20381
>> !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
>>
>> After all, only the last 50 bytes are printed. The string is the same 
>> (length 20381) in both cases.
>>  
>>
> Hmm, I checked on Windows now and it is working. But it is bad on 
> FreeBSD/Python 2.4.1
> Very strange. len(data[:100]) returns 100, but if I try to print it, 
> only the first 50 characters printed.
> 
>   Les

Is 'data' a Unicode string, or do you have some terminal control 
charachters in the string? Most printable ASCII charachters are between 
32 and 126. What does this print?:

print [i for (i,c) in enumerate(data) if not (32 <= ord(c) <= 126)]


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 21:48:07 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:48:07 -0700
Subject: Question about inheritance...
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130028891.235502.236320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4uk35.ule5fjrpjwcqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

KraftDiner <bobrien18 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Well here is a rough sketch of my code...
> This is giving my two problems.
> 
> 1) TypeError: super() argument 1 must be type, not classobj

Make your classes new-style (have Shape inherit from object) to fix
this.  You're using the legacy (old-style) object model (which remains
for backwards compatibility only).

> 2) I want to be sure the the draw code calls the inherited classes
> outline and not its own...

Call anything on self, and you'll use the inherited class.


> class Shape:

change to: class Shape(object):

>       def __init__(self):
>               pass

remove this method, no need for it.

>       def render(self):
>               print self.__class___

Use two trailing underscores, NOT three.

>               self.outline()
>       def outline(self):
>               pass

Use as the body "raise NotImplementedError" to make sure that
Shape.outline never gets accidentally called.

> 
> class Rect(Shape):
>       def __init__(self):
>               super(self.__class__, self).__init__()
>       def render(self):
>               super(self.__class__, self).draw()

You never defined a method named 'draw', do you mean 'render'?

>       def outline(self):
>               print 'outline' + self.__class__



Alex


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 18:27:46 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 22:27:46 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<4350b0ee$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<Xns96F08542455F6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<43515eab$0$11078$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0B1A391579castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Martin P. Hellwig" <mhellwig at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
> <cut>
>> You mean like the lamp that keeps burning forever, like Philips has?
> 
> No more like all the hydrogen technologies that shell has in their 
> possession for the last decades and only recently has begun to restart
> those projects.
> 
>>> Although Commodore where never serious competitors,
>> 
>> Because there programming skills were as worse as MS? I mean, their 
>> BASIC had only 2 instuctions: PEEK and POKE?
> 
> eehm Amiga?

Eehm: Acorn Archimedes?

> <cut>
>> 
>> Yet you call NT slightly better compared to Windows 95. So you have
>> no clue what you're talking about.
> 
> So I see you never worked serious with 3.5 .

Yeah, that's it, I am sure.

>>> then where we are now. Perhaps we even had a other mainstream
>>> architecture like sparcs and powerpc's.
>> 
>> But "crippled" like Intel.
> 
> Yeah right sparc is crippled...

Yeah, right: Sparc is the ultimate goal in processor design, the best of
the best. You think it would have been that good if it was a mainstream
processor? 

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 16:30:05 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:30:05 +0200
Subject: Extention Woes
References: <1129753094.056781.319720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj6acf$4i1$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Tuvas" wrote:

> I am in the process of writing an extention module, and am coming up
> with lots of problems. Perhaps someone could be of use. I keep getting
> data that isn't what I'm sending the program. Let me give the line of C
> code and Python Code and output to illistrate the problem.
>
> write_can(can_han,0x0140,'abcd')
>
> if (PyArg_ParseTuple(args("iiz#",&can_han,&com,&data,&len)
>     return NULL;

that doesn't look entirely correct.  maybe you should switch to a com-
puter with working cut and paste, so we don't have to guess...

> Okay, so I put in a print statement to print out the variables can_han,
> com, data, and length. The results were more or less this (I don't have
> copy/paste at the moment, so...
>
> 1357 com->0 len->4 str->,/p.
>
> Anways, the variable can_han was correct, the length is correct, but
> the com and the string are garbage. Any ideas as to why this may be?

it would help if you included the variable declarations and the exact printf
statement you used to print them.

</F>





From spamtrap at library.lspace.org.invalid  Sat Oct 22 18:54:58 2005
From: spamtrap at library.lspace.org.invalid (Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:54:58 -0300
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> 
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com> 
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> 
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> 
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com> 
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> 
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga> 
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address> <bSa5f.15276$Hm3.12093@fe09.lga> 
	<m3fyqybs9s.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <435ad152$17$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>

In <m3fyqybs9s.fsf at invalid.address>, on 10/18/2005
   at 01:21 PM, joe at invalid.address said:

>Yes, he deserves credit for what he did.

As well as blame. The commercialization of the Internet was grossly
mismanaged. Take the InterNIC - please!

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT  <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action.  I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail.  Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me.  Do not
reply to spamtrap at library.lspace.org



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 24 09:14:52 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 13:14:52 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-24, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:23:58 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Op 2005-10-21, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
>>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>> It would be better if cmp would give an indication it
>>>> can't compare two objects instead of giving incorrect
>>>> and inconsistent results.
>>>
>>> If two objects aren't totally comparable, then using 'cmp' on them is 
>>> ill-defined to begin with.
>> 
>> Where is that documented?
>
> Surely that is so obvious, it doesn't need documenting? If comparisons
> aren't defined between two things ("which is longer, water or fire?") then
> comparing them is ill-defined.
>
> On second thoughts... no, I don't believe it is so obvious. People are
> used to thinking about comparisons in the context of numbers and strings,
> and it won't hurt to remind them that not every pair of objects can be
> compared.

I also think there is the problem that people aren't used to partial
ordering. There is an ordering over sets, it is just not a total
ordering. But that some pairs are uncomparable (meaning that neither
one is smaller or greater) doesn't imply that comparing them is
ill defined.

>>> The Standard Thing To Do is throw an 
>>> exception; see the Highly Obscure Case of the Complex Numbers.
>>>
>>> >>>1 == 1j
>>> False
>>> >>>1 != 1j
>>> True
>>> >>>1 < 1j
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>> TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
>> 
>> I would say this is the wrong answer. The right answer should
>> be False IMO.
>
> I'm afraid that mathematically you are wrong. Greater and less than is not
> defined for complex numbers.
>
> I think I see where you are coming from: you are reading "1 < 1j" as "is
> one less than one*j", the answer to which is "no". That's a sensible
> answer to a sensible question, except for two problems:
>
> (1) you will upset the mathematical purists, who argue that the English
> sentence is not quite the same as the mathematical relation; and
>
> (2) you will upset the programmers, since your suggestion would create a
> whole class of gotchas and bugs, where people wrongly assume that since
> 1<1j is False, 1>1j should be True.
>
> This is one case where practicality *is* purity.

Well it is a wrong assumption is general. There is nothing impure about
partial ordering. 

>> Look at sets:
>> 
>>>>> set([1]) <=  set([2])
>> False
>>>>> set([2]) <= set([1])
>> False
>
> No, sorry, you are making a mistake. In the context of sets, the <
> operator doesn't mean "less than", it means "is a subset of". It is
> correct to say neither "set([1]) is a subset of set([2])" nor vice versa
> is true. Both are false.

That is IMO irrelevant. The subset relationship is an ordering and as
such has all characteristics of other orderings like "less than",
except that the subset relationship is partial and the less than
relationship is total. How it is called "subset" vs "less than" is
IMO irrelevant. It is about mathematical characteristics.

> By analogy, one can ask, "is the cat inside the box?" and get the answer
> "No", but this does not imply that therefore the box must be inside the
> cat.

Bad analogy, this doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset
relationship does.

>> 
>>>>> set([1]) <= set([1,2])
>> True
>>>>> cmp(set([1]), set([1,2]))
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> TypeError: cannot compare sets using cmp()
>> 
>> The first set is smaller than the second so acoording to the
>> documentation, I should get a negative number as a result.
>
> No, the first expression tests whether set([1]) is a subset of set([1,2]),
> not whether it is "smaller".

This is quibling with words. Both test whether one comes before the
other is a certain order.

> Smaller and bigger aren't defined for sets.

It is not about smaller or bigger, it is about the general concept
of (mathematical) order. Whether you call this order, subset or
less than is not important. 

>>> then your
>>> _ONLY_ choices, no matter your implementation, is to return some
>>> possibly inconsistent result (a < b == 1, b < c == 1, a < c == 0) or
>>> raise an exception for unapplicable comparisons.
>>>
>>> This isn't a Python problem; this is a problem from formal mathematics.
>> 
>> I think it is python's problem if python gives the wrong results.
>> 
>> when a < b then cmp(a,b) should give a negative number as a result.
>> Python sometimes does not!
>> 
>> when not a < b then cmp(a,b) should not give a negative number as a
>> result. Python sometimes does!
>> 
>> I think those are python problems.
>
> I think you need to give examples of where < or > *defined as comparisons*
> returns the wrong results. The examples from sets do not count, because
> the operators aren't being used for comparisons.

IMO they count, because the subset relationship is a mathematical order
relation just as less than is one.

>>> Personally, I'd favor the "raise an exception" case, which is exactly
>>> what will happen if you define rich comparisons and let cmp throw an
>>> exception.
>> 
>> But I don't want cmp to raise an exception when the two elements are
>> comparable.
>> 
>> That cmp(set([1]), set([2])) would raise an exception, I can understand,
>> although I would prefer it returned None, but why should cmp(set([1]),
>> set([1,2])) raise an exception. There is a perfectly well defined answer
>> for this.
>
> Alas, there is not. First you have to define what "less than" and "greater
> than" means for sets, and there is no well-defined answer to that. They
> certainly don't mean "is a subset" and "is a superset". Nor is it sensible
> to define them in terms of the number of elements:

Look I have to define this for whatever class of objects I want to use
anyway. On what grounds do you argue that using partial orderings
shouldn't work.

Wether you want to call being a subset "less than" or not is not the
issue. If I need it for my program I can certainly define a set class
where "less than" will be like the subset relationship or I can define
other classes where an ordering exists but not a total one.

IMO there is nothing wrong with using the order symbols python already
has, to use ordering on other objects..

> def lt(set1, set2):
>     """Defines less than for sets in terms of the number of
>     elements.""" 
>     return len(set1) < len(set2)
>
> def gt(set1, set2):
>     """Defines greater than for sets in terms of the number of
>     elements."""
>     return len(set1) > len(set2)
>
> py> lt( set([1]), set([1, 2]) )
> True
> py> gt( set([1]), set([1, 2]) )
> False
>
> So far so good. But now:
>
> py> lt( set([1]), set([2]) )
> False
> py> gt( set([1]), set([2]) )
> False
> py> set([1]) == set([2])
> False
>
> So set([1]) is neither less than, nor greater than, nor equal to set([2]).

So? It seems you never have encounted a partial ordering before. What
you have illustrated here is not special among (partial) orderings.
And the world is full of partial orderings. I think it is wrong to
shoehorn everything in a total ordering and that is why I think
python should give programmers a way in handling partial orderings.

>>> Operators that assume comparable objects, like sort, also almost always
>>> assume a total order -- inconsistent operations can give weird results,
>>> while throwing an exception will at least (usually) give some sort of
>>> error that can be caught.
>> 
>> No it wont. the sort method will happily sort a list of sets.
>> 
>>>>> lst
>> [set([1]), set([2])]
>>>>> lst.sort()
>
> That's an accident of implementation. Sorting nows uses only <, rather
> than __cmp__, and since < (subset) for sets is defined, sort blindly goes
> and sorts the list.
>
> However, look at this:
>
> py> from sets import Set as set
> py> L1 = [set([1]), set([2]), set([3])]
> py> L2 = [set([2]), set([3]), set([1])]
>
> Notice that L1 and L2 contain the same elements, just in different orders.
> Sorting those two lists should give the same order, correct?

No. Since we don't have a total ordering, sorting doesn't has to give
the same result. For as far as sorting is defined on this kind of
object, the only thing I would expect is that after a sort the
following condition holds.

for all i,j if i < j then not L[i] > L[j]

> py> L1.sort()
> py> L2.sort()
> py> L1
> [Set([1]), Set([2]), Set([3])]
> py> L2
> [Set([2]), Set([3]), Set([1])]
>
> Should, but doesn't. Oops. That's a bug.
>
> Personally, I argue that sorting is something that you do to lists, and
> that all lists should be sortable regardless of whether the objects within
> them have a total order or not. If not, the list should impose a sensible
> ordering on them, such as (perhaps) lexicographical order ("dictionary
> order").
>
> Look at it this way: books do not have a total ordering. What does it mean
> to say that Tolstoy's "War and Peace" is less than Tom Clancy's "The Hunt
> For Red October"? Are we comparing by title? Author? Contents? Cost of the
> book, dimensions of the book, number of pages, some subjective idea of
> quality, average word length, maximum sentence length, publication date,
> number of protagonists, or what?
>
> And yet libraries somehow find no difficulty in sorting shelves of
> hundreds or thousands of books.

But will all libraries sort the shelves in the same way. As far as I
understand a book gets somekind of code in a library and books are
sorted according to these codes. Now everybody sorts these codes the
same way, but the attibution of the code may differ from library to
library.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 08:46:03 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:46:03 +0100
Subject: WMI - Restore Setting in Python
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D225A@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[saw huan chng]

> I am beginner in Python. I have some questions on WMI Service in Python. 
> I was able to use properties of Class Restore in WMI, but not able to 
> use the method. Here is the sample code that I done, anyone can help me?

[... snip code ...]

OK, I don't actually use XP (and the SystemRestore doesn't exist on 2000)
but I *strongly* suggest that if you're going to do anything with WMI you
(** blows own trumpet **) use this module:

http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi.html

It does some of the dirty work you'd otherwise have to do.

Effectively, the answer to your question is that Method-calling in
WMI is a bit of a messy process. That's why I wrote the module to
cover up the messiness. Unfortunately, there are some new areas
of WMI-ness in XP which I've never really used, so the module's
a bit weak in these areas.

Using the wmi module, you'll have to do this (effectively untested):

<code>
import wmi

connection = wmi.connect_server (".", namespace=r"root\DEFAULT")

sequence_number = 11

#
# Bit of a hack; I need to improve the module here
#
system_restore = wmi._wmi_object (connection.Get ("SystemRestore"))
system_restore.Restore (sequence_number)

</code>


If you really want to do it yourself, you need to do something like
this: (*very* untested)

<code>
import win32com.client

wmi_service = win32com.client.Dispatch ("WbemSripting.SWbemLocator")
wbem_services = wmi_service.ConnectServer (".", r"root\DEFAULT")
test_obj = wbem_services.Get ("SystemRestore")

sequence_number = 11

restore_method = test_obj.Methods_ ("Restore")
restore_params = restore_method.InParameters
restore_params.Properties_ ("SequenceNumber").Value = sequence_number
test_obj.ExecMethod_ ("Restore", restore_params)
</code>

Hope that helps a bit

TJG

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From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 19 15:22:24 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:22:24 -0700
Subject: question about timestamp and MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <bew5f.2828$UF4.1651@fed1read02>
References: <bew5f.2828$UF4.1651@fed1read02>
Message-ID: <20051019192224.GA27602@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 19, Sean Berry wrote:
> I am using MySQLdb to connect to a database and retrieve a timestamp
> from a table.  The problem is I want the timestamp as a long,
> unformatted and all.
> 
> In the table I have a timestamp like this
> 20051019111617
> 
> But, when I retrieve the value and print it I get
>  2005-10-19 11:16:17
> 
> I want the numeric version, not the converted date.  Any suggestions? 

Without giving any thought to MySQLdb or datetime, the simplest thing
that comes to mind is

    >>> import re
    >>> re.sub('( |-|:)', '', ' 2005-10-19 11:16:17')
    '20051019111617'

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From http  Tue Oct 11 17:37:41 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 14:37:41 -0700
Subject: python interpreter
References: <digm1h$9si$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <7xy84z68gq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"g.franzkowiak" <g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de> writes:
> Where can I find informations like this for Python ?

"Use the force, read the source".  Python's interpreter is more like a
big switch statement on bytecodes, though.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct  5 06:04:20 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 10:04:20 GMT
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1501.1128503368.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk7994.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> 
>> I have been searching some more and finally stumbled on this:
>> 
>> http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html
>> 
>>   Mappings (dictionaries) compare equal if and only if their sorted
>>   (key, value) lists compare equal. Outcomes other than equality are
>>   resolved consistently, but are not otherwise defined.
>> 
>> This seems to imply that the specific method to sort the dictionaries
>> is unimported (as long as it is a total ordering). So I can use whatever
>> method I want as long as it is achieves this.
>> 
>> But that is contradicted by the unittest. If you have a unittest for
>> comparing dictionaries, that means comparing dictionaries has a
>> testable characteristic and thus is further defined.
>> 
>> So I don't need a full implementation of dictionary comparison,
>> I need to know in how far such a comparison is defined and
>> what I can choose.
>> 
> The dict unit tests are probably trying to ensure that the dictionary 
> ordering doesn't change from version to version, which is probably a 
> good idea in case someone (foolishly?) deciess to rely on it.

I doubt that. Just to check I tried the following:

  class Tree:

    def __lt__(self, term):
      return len(self) < len(term)

And the test passed.

> I can't help wondering, though, under what conditions it actually makes 
> sense to compare two dictionaries for anything other than equality.

Yes that is part of the problem, because I can't think of such a
condition it is hard to think of what extra constraints could be
usefull here.

Anyway, I have searched the source of the test for all testing
with regards to < and after some browsing back and fore it seems
it all boils down to the following two tests.

   self.assert_(not {} < {})
   self.assert_(not {1: 2} < {1L: 2L})

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 07:00:42 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:00:42 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djqc0r$3fd$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     But there is no law against that type of conduct, *unless* you
>> are a monopolist. So your conclusion hinges on the determination
>> that Microsoft had a monopoly, and that hinges on the definition of
>> the "market". That's a different can of worms for a different part
>> of this thread.

> The trial court determined and two different appeals courts upheld
> that MS had an illegal monopoly.  I think they have more experience
> and knowledge of these things than you do.  MS's illegal monopoly
> is an established legal fact regardless of your irrelevant opinion.

    The appeals courts upheld that the trial court did not abuse its 
discretion. However, both a finding of "yes, Microsoft had a monopoly" and a 
finding of "no, Microsoft did not have a monopoly" would both have been 
within the trial court's discretion. They could just as easily have found 
that Linux, OSX, FreeBSD, and other operating systems competed with Windows.

    To call it an "established legal fact" is to grossly distort the 
circumstances under which it was determined and upheld.

    DS




From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Mon Oct 17 13:17:12 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:17:12 -0400
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>	<mailman.2125.1129436361.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<mailman.2174.1129568308.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4353dc6e$0$41151$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Madhusudan Singh wrote:
>> skip at pobox.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>    Madhusudan> Is it possible to convert a very long list of strings to
>>>    a Madhusudan> list of floats in a single statement ?
>>>
>>>    Madhusudan> I have tried float(x) and float(x[:]) but neither work. I
>>>    Madhusudan> guess I would have to write a loop if there isn't a way.
>>>
>>>Try:
>>>
>>>    >>> los = ["123.0", "2", "1e-6"]
>>>    >>> map(float, los)
>>>    [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]
>>>    >>> [float(s) for s in los]
>>>    [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]
>>>
>>>Skip
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks. Now, a slightly more complicated question.
>> 
>> Say I have two lists of floats. And I wish to generate a list of floats
>> that is a user defined function of the two lists.
>> 
>> I tried :
>> 
>> def rpyth(x,y):
>>     r=sqrt(pow(x,2.0)+pow(y,2.0))
>>     return r
>> 
>> r1n=map(rpyth,x2n[1:len(x2n)-1],y2n[1:len(y2n)-1])
>> 
>> And I get an error complaining about floats.
> 
> ... but the error message is a secret so you don't want to tell us what
> it was? It's more helpful if you actually copied and pasted the exact
> error traceback you see, as this avoids any potential answerer having to
> guess what went wrong.
> 
> A brief description of what you were trying to do is also helpful, since
> it isn't obvious at first glance why you are omitting some of hte list
> elements.
> 
> regards
>   Steve

I apologize for that.

The error message is :

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "takedata.py", line 163, in ?
    r1n=map(rpyth,x2n[1:len(x2)-1],y2n[1:len(y2)-1])
  File "takedata.py", line 15, in rpyth
    r=sqrt(pow(x,2.0)+pow(y,2.0))
TypeError: a float is required

I understand why the error is occuring (pow is not overloaded to accept
lists of floats instead of floats ?). How do I fix this ?


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sat Oct 22 16:39:29 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:39:29 -0400
Subject: python gc performance in large apps
In-Reply-To: <43594BD5.7050104@u20.org>
Message-ID: <20051022203929.27584.2099405149.divmod.quotient.2786@ohm>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:13:09 -0400, Robby Dermody <robbyd at u20.org> wrote:
>
>Hey guys (thus begins a book of a post :),
>
>I'm in the process of writing a commercial VoIP call monitoring and
>recording application suite in python and pyrex. Basically, this
>software sits in a VoIP callcenter-type environment (complete with agent
>phones and VoIP servers), sniffs voice data off of the network, and
>allows users to listen into calls. It can record calls as well. The
>project is about a year and 3 months in the making and lately the
>codebase has stabilized enough to where it can be used by some of our
>clients. The entire project has about 37,000 lines of python and pyrex
>code (along with 1-2K lines of unrelated java code).
>
> [snip - it leaks memory]

One thing to consider is that the process may be growing in size, not because garbage objects are not being freed, but because objects which should be garbage are being held onto by application-level code.

gc.objects may be useful for determining if this is the case, and gc.get_objects() may be useful for discovering what kinds of objects are piling up.  These may give you a hint as to where to look to allow these objects to be released, if this is the problem.

Of course, it's also possible one of the libraries you are using is either leaking objects in this fashion, or for the extension modules, may just be leaking memory.  The above techniques may help you find an object leak, but they won't help you find a memory leak.  For this, you might give Valgrind a try (use the suppression file in Python CVS to get rid of the spew PyMalloc and friends generate).

Also, I can point out two things: Twisted's URL parsing extension leaked some memory in 1.3, but has been fixed since 2.0; and Nevow 0.4.1 made it easy to write applications that leaked several page objects per request, which has been fixed since 0.5.  If you're using either of these older versions, upgrading may fix your difficulties.

Hope this helps,

Jp


From chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 13:25:28 2005
From: chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com (Cigar)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 10:25:28 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3bnhlx1m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128422990.741343.292310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xll194jle.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128446728.459781.10150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Suppose that competitor's program that her employee had illicitly
> brought her wasn't protected, so she was able to run it.  You might
> ask her whether, ethical issues aside, she would be willing to use it
> on a daily basis, given it sounds like people in her industry know
> each other enough that word would probably get back to the competitor,
> and any resulting lawsuit would leave her up a creek.  If she's not
> willing to use her competitor's program under those cirumstances,
> should she really be afraid of her competitor using hers?  Also, if
> all she got from the competitor was an .exe, she'd have no way to
> customize it, and vice versa.

Oh I agree.  (I just thought of something while writing a respond to
this)  What if she DID get the program running and only told me she
couldn't and came up against the same morale, legal and technical
issues that you're pointing out here and decided against using the
program.  I guess maybe part of her doubts that her competition would
look at her program and come to the same m,l,t, conclusions about not
using it if it fell into their hands.

(I'm only guessing at how my client arrived at the decision to protect
her program.  All indicators suggests she is a moral, ethical and kind
hearted person)

> > It's just a collection of names, addresses, phone numbers, birthdays
> > and drivers licences/health cards.  I can think of a few dishonest
> > things that could be done with this but her competition has the
> > basically the same clients.
>
> Well, that sounds pretty confidential to me, but I'll take your word
> for it that the competitors are more interested in the code than the
> data.  I do think she's overestimating the threat.

Again I agree... but I would like to assuage her concerns as much as I
can technically.  It will keep a roof over my head awhile longer.

> > Not by my standards but it is slowly replacing a paper system.  (Police
> > officer shows up and says 'We've just arrested John Smith.  Has he sold
> > you anything in the last 90 days.  The client says 'Just a minute' and
> > reaches for a set of 4" d-ring binders and turns hundreds of pages
> > looking for a Smith name...)  My client is relived that this senario
> > will soon disappear.
>
> Is there something there that you can't do with a few spreadsheet macros?

Are you trying to put me out of a job? :)

> > > What is the competitor going to do with this code even if they get it?
> > Simplify their lives.  See above.
>
> Lawsuits don't simplify anyone's life ;-).

Costly for all.  I do agree.

> > A network exists but the client insists on a standalone PC.
>
> How about two PC's connected by a piece of ethernet cable, but no
> outside network connection.  The server is a laptop or palmtop locked
> in a desk drawer.  A little hole is drilled in the back of the drawer
> for the power and network cables.  The network cable is connected to a
> PC on top of the desk that the employees actually use, running a web
> browser or the like.

That might fly.  I'll have to ask her about that.



From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Mon Oct  3 10:59:53 2005
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 15:59:53 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <dhk1jj$7ri$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<3q5nmhFdbcpbU1@individual.net>
	<z2j%e.111101$4i6.23453@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Piw*Ahf0q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

Ron Adam  <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:
>So ...
>
>   A if B else C + X * Y
>
>Would evaluate as... ?
>
>   A if B else (C + X * Y)

"""In general, 'if' and 'else' bind less tight than everything except
lambda."""

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-September/056846.html

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Mon Oct 10 15:41:19 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:41:19 +0200
Subject: how to capture key pressing
Message-ID: <stz2f.22845$133.7103@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Hi all. I'm searching for a module that permit me to costantly log every key 
pressed on the keyboard and eventually assign it a function (e.g. when "esc" 
is pressed: exit program"). 




From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct 14 17:03:11 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:03:11 -0500
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <C09579CB-8CD3-4CB8-8DC4-D9366DA70921@advfn.com>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure> <434cca53$0$9727$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<C09579CB-8CD3-4CB8-8DC4-D9366DA70921@advfn.com>
Message-ID: <C3FF76B7-D574-4EDE-B33E-9D15167947DA@sbcglobal.net>

Um, sorry, but this isn't correct.

Although there might be a slight bit of gray area, the simple  
difference between compiled and interpreted languages is that  
compiled languages produce a binary consisting of bytes that mean  
something specific to the CPU of the computer the program is running  
on. The program is executed pretty much by just sending those bytes  
to the CPU.

In an interpreted language, the "binary" (whether it be a straight  
text file or a bytecode file that has been produced from a text file)  
is, at runtime, processed by another program which _does_ consist of  
the bytes the CPU understands directly. Interpreted languages put an  
extra layer of software between the executable and the program.

In practical terms, there are three differences:

1) Interpreted language programs are typically much easier to  
transfer between machines (not necessarily between operating systems).
2) Compiled languages typically have the potential (depending how  
much work goes into the compiler, amongst other things) to be _far_  
faster than interpreted languages.
3) Compiled languages require an often very painful, ugly compilation  
step to produce a binary. In interpreted languages (that produce  
bytecode), this phase is usually quite a bit easier, if not invisible.

Yes, a language can have both an interpreter and a compiler, but  
almost always one of those plays a trivial role in the use of the  
language, because it is usually very difficult to get the semantics  
of the two to match and at the same time produce enough of a benefit  
to make the effort worthwhile.

Ken


On 14-Oct-05, at 9:29 AM, Alex Stapleton wrote:

> You can see that the entire, interpreted vs compiled debate is
> utterly meaningless and that only implementation specific details
> actually matter. e.g. Java is native if you compile it with GCJ. x86
> is interpreted if you run it under a VM like VirtualPC.
>

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From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 11:11:05 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:11:05 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <4358F492.7000406@imperial.ac.uk>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>	<43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<dja4ss$m2i$2@sea.gmane.org>	<4358C7A6.1040907@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2354.1129894994.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4358F492.7000406@imperial.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <djb0e4$h1b$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Jaffe wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>>
>>>Steve Holden wrote:
>>>
>>>>Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the 
>>>>>class itself, before I've made any instances.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...
>>>
>>>Yep, that would work! Thanks.
>>>
>>>But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be 
>>>almost exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to 
>>>apply these methods to the class as an object in its own right).
>>>
>>
>>What's the use case?
> 
> 
> Fair question. I hope the following isn't too technical.
> 
> I have a class which describes the model for fitting some data, 
> encapsulating among other things a bunch of parameters whose values I'd 
> like to determine for a given dataset. The base class is a simple model, 
> the derived class a slightly more complicated one with an extra parameter.
> 
> At present, I instantiate the class with a particular set of values for 
> the parameters.
> 
> One of the methods in this class is called 'prior', which returns the 
> prior probability for the instance's paramters.
> 
> However, it turns out there are some 'meta-parameters' which don't 
> change between instances, in particular the allowed limits on the 
> parameters, beyond which the prior should return 0. Currently these are 
> stored as class variables -- so both the base and derived class want to 
> be able to act as if these class variables are 'native' to their own 
> class -- since in fact the base/derived relationship is in this case 
> actually something of an implementation detail. (Currently I've solved 
> the problem by explicitly using the base class methods for setting the 
> class variables.)
> 
> Does this make sense?
> 

I think so. It's not normal adive, but it sounds like a metaclass might 
be what you need here.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Thu Oct 20 04:39:11 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:39:11 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2289.1129778486.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<mailman.2289.1129778486.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435757b1$0$21282$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Bryan wrote:
> Amol Vaidya wrote:
> 
>> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have
>> been debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. 
(snip)
> 
> why don't you do what i did?  download ruby and spend a day or two
> reading "programming ruby" from www.ruby-lang.org/en.  the download
> python and spend a day or two reading the python tuturial from
> www.python.org.

Or better: DiveIntoPython

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From http  Mon Oct 17 07:05:15 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 04:05:15 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4knsn.1tihnpm15d5y4lN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrndl6uur.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2162.1129546889.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xll0s76ac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> Otherwise you have to write the worker thread to be capable of
> handling asynchronous signals, which is a notoriously difficult task.

Doing it properly needs a language extension.

http://www.cs.williams.edu/~freund/papers/02-lwl2.ps


From rupole at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 01:47:06 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:47:06 -0400
Subject: win32com, generating the cache programaticaly?
References: <m3oe5wtdz0.fsf@flognat.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1129096273_887@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


"Andrew Markebo" wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I am messing around with communicating between LabVIEW and Python, got
> it to work by a small 'fix' (grabbing the generated file, and
> importing it by hand)
>
> What I might want to do, is to automatically generate the data done by
> executing makepy.py and run by it.
>
> What I select in makepy.py is a library "LabVIEW data 7.1", I would
> like to do this from my program. Any hints?
>
> Then, is it possible making this on a minor mode, basically I have
> only to dig out the CLSID of "LabVIEW data 7.1" and put it into the
> generated file.. sort of??
>

You can use win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch
to automatically generate the makepy file for an object's library
when the object is created.  Use the bForDemand option to
only generate the code for objects as needed.

        Roger





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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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From noahlt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 14:57:51 2005
From: noahlt at gmail.com (noahlt at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 11:57:51 -0800
Subject: Function returns none
In-Reply-To: <436670bb$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1130785944.632805.156810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<436670bb$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1130788671.856959.59120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, that worked!



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 07:40:44 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 04:40:44 -0700
Subject: is there any Python code for spatial tessellation?
Message-ID: <1d987df30510080440x5ae758eard7ccfbd829f88264@mail.gmail.com>

is there any Python code for spatial tessellation?
thanks a lot!
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From pmartin at snakecard.com  Tue Oct 25 13:46:39 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:46:39 GMT
Subject: SCWEB 0.1 to be released
Message-ID: <3cu7f.7599$Zv5.167@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>

Dear all,

I intend to release withing the next very few week the version 0.1 of SCWEB,
a cross-platform web authentication platform _mostly_ written in Python and
adaptable to most programming languages.

SCWEB will come with server modules (cgi), client modules (Firefox
extension/plugin and XPCOM modules)

All modules are operational except for the XPCOM part.

I whised to announce the coming SCWEB now because I have opened a blog
(www.snakecard.com/WordPress) so I might potentially get important feedback
prior to the release.

SCWEB will be distributed under the GPL license.

Comments are quite welcome: www.snakecard.com/WordPress

Regards,

Philippe  Martin



From christophe.delarue at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 09:57:59 2005
From: christophe.delarue at gmail.com (christophe.delarue at gmail.com)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 06:57:59 -0700
Subject: NamedTemporaryFile and mode a+rwx
Message-ID: <1128347879.651678.257170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'd like to create a temporaty shell script. Therefore I use tempfile
with NamedTemporaryFile. The problem is that the _mkstemp_inner create
the file using 06000 code. Then the fdopen is called, but the stat of
the file does not change to executable.

Why the fdopen does not modify the mode of the file ?

Without the executable flag, this could not be understood as an
executable file.

Thanks.

the trace :

>>> t=tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile(mode="a+rwx")
>>> print t.name
/tmp/tmp5wwa9K
>>> print t.mode
a+rwx
>>> os.system("ls -l " + t.name)
-rw-------   1 myLogin         0 Oct  3 15:30 /tmp/tmp5wwa9K
>>> os.system("stat " + t.name)
  File: `/tmp/tmp5wwa9K'
  Size: 0         	Blocks: 0          IO Block: 8192   regular empty
file
Device: 2h/2d	Inode: 8593614     Links: 1
Access: (0600/-rw-------)  Uid: (10373/ numerix)   Gid: ( 1102/
rms)
Access: 2005-10-03 15:30:38.000000000 +0200
Modify: 2005-10-03 15:30:38.000000000 +0200
Change: 2005-10-03 15:30:38.000000000 +0200



From see at sig.for.address.edu  Wed Oct 19 23:31:51 2005
From: see at sig.for.address.edu (Doug Schwarz)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:31:51 GMT
Subject: Some more odd behaviour from the Regexp library
References: <1129777843.892280.302490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <see-7DC955.23313619102005@news.frontiernet.net>

In article <1129777843.892280.302490 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "David Veerasingam" <vdavidster at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can anyone explain why it won't give me my captured group?
> 
> In [1]: a = 'exit: gkdfjgfjdfsgdjglkghdfgkd'
> In [2]: import re
> In [3]: b = re.search(r'exit: (.*?)', a)
> In [4]: b.group(0)
> Out[4]: 'exit: '
> 
> In [5]: b.group(1)
> Out[5]: ''
> 
> In [6]: b.group(2)
> IndexError: no such group

The ? tells (.*?) to match as little as possible and that is nothing.  
If you change it to (.*) it should do what you want.

-- 
Doug Schwarz
dmschwarz&urgrad,rochester,edu
Make obvious changes to get real email address.


From eric.pederson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 18:35:22 2005
From: eric.pederson at gmail.com (eric.pederson at gmail.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 15:35:22 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130193322.138313.320480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

The output I was contemplating was a DOM "DNA" - that is the DOM
without the instances of the elements or their data, a bare tree, a
prototype tree based on what is in the document (rather than what is
legal to include in the document).

Just enough data that for an arbitrary element I would know:

1) whether the element was in a document
2) where to find it (the chain of parents)


As I mentioned, I'm just starting to think about the subject, so maybe
the best practice is something else like loading the full DOM into
memory.  I'm still in the make one to throw away one mode.

EP



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 04:41:32 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:41:32 -0700
Subject: Python extension module segmentation fault
In-Reply-To: <4358a322$1@news.fhg.de>
References: <4358a322$1@news.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <dja9js$4b9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Rolf Wester wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I' trying to make an extension module that passes Numeric arrays. The
> wrapper function is (swig generated and modified by myself):
> 
> static PyObject *_wrap_my_func(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
>     PyObject * resultobj = 0 ;
>     PyObject * obj0 = 0 ;
>     PyArrayObject * mat = 0 ;
> 
> 	std::cout << __FILE__ << "  " <<  __LINE__ << std::endl;
>     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,(char *)"O:my_func",&obj0)) goto fail;
> 	std::cout << __FILE__ << "  " <<  __LINE__ <<  "  " << obj0 << std::endl;
>  	mat = (PyArrayObject *) PyArray_ContiguousFromObject(obj0,
> PyArray_DOUBLE, 1, 1);
> 	std::cout << __FILE__ << "  " <<  __LINE__ <<  "  " << mat << std::endl;
> 
>     Py_INCREF(Py_None); resultobj = Py_None;
>     return resultobj;
>     fail:
>     return NULL;
> }
> 
> The shared object is build with:
> 
> g++ -c -g -fPIC -I./  -I/usr/local/include/python2.4
> -I/usr/local/include/python2.4/Numeric  mytest_wrap.cpp -o mytest_wrap.o
> 
> g++ -shared -L/usr/local/lib/python2.4/config/  mytest_wrap.o
> -lpython2.4 -lm   -o _mytest.so
> 
> 
> the Python file reads:
> 
> import _mytest
> from Numeric import *
> mat = ones(100,Float64)
> print _mytest.my_func(mat)
> 
> When running this I get the output:
> 
> mytest_wrap.cpp  1499
> mytest_wrap.cpp  1502  0x402b55e8
> Speicherzugriffsfehler (segmentation fault)

Did you call import_array() in init_mytest()?

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From ejensen at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 17:25:54 2005
From: ejensen at visi.com (Ed Jensen)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:25:54 -0000
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<3nc*FXJ1q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <11lin723i0e3k80@corp.supernews.com>

Sion Arrowsmith <siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> I have here a library (it's the client side of a client-server
> interface including a pile of class definitions) which has
> implementations in pure C++, Java and Python, taking about 3000,
> 3500 and 1500 loc respectively. And there's an associated module
> (with no C++ implementation) that I remember being particular
> "impressed" while writing it to find being 3 times as long in Java
> as Python despite (a) extensive (and pretty much common) Javadoc/
> docstrings and (b) implementing in the Python version a feature
> present in the standard Java library (scheduling a thread to run
> at specified intervals and time out). Strip the Javadoc/docstrings
> out and it's about at that 5:1 ratio.

This claim seems pretty dubious to me.


From johan.appelgren at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 05:14:01 2005
From: johan.appelgren at gmail.com (johan.appelgren at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 02:14:01 -0700
Subject: Looping Problem (Generating files - only the last record
	generates a file)
In-Reply-To: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130318041.497934.304150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

You have only indented the first line in the for-loop, so for each line
in the file you split the line into town and latlong. Then after you
have split the last line in the file you write a new file with the last
result in the for-loop.

What you want is probably something like this:

#!  python

HEADER = "This page displays longitude-latitude information"
SUBHEADER = "City"

for line in open("datafile.txt"):
    town, latlong = line.split('\t')
    f = open(town + ".txt", "w+")
    f.write(HEADER + "\n")
    f.write(SUBHEADER + ": " + town + "\n")
    f.write("LAT/LONG" + ": " + latlong + "\n")
    f.close() 

# end 

/Johan



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 20 22:12:50 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:12:50 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129853715.441205.322480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86wtk7ty71.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"bonono at gmail.com" <bonono at gmail.com> writes:
> I am not sure your intention but I think there isn't a one language
> fits all situation here.

Very true.

> C/C++ - for linux kernel hacking etc., many library out there still use
> it
> python - generic stuff
> SQL - nothing beats it for many business apps
> haskell - a language to train my brain
> javascript - Web front end
>
> other than haskell and SQL, the others are more or less the same to me
> so getting familiar with them is not too difficult.

There are actually lots of good "train your brain" type
languages. Members of the LISP family, for instance, to learn what you
can do with lists, and also for how cool a real macro facility can
be. I happen to like Scheme, but that's just me. APL, for learning you
can do with arrays. SNOBOL for old-school string processing and
pattern matching. Icon for what you can do with failure. Eiffel for
what you can do with objects and DbC. CLU for duck typing with
declerations. Prolog for what you can do without writing commands. Oz
includes a nice combination of a lot of these things.

The best ones have a book associated with them that teaches general
programming practices using said language as an example - and
hopefully does a good job of it. I've only got four of those:

Scheme: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, by Abelson,
Sussman and Sussman. Commonly called SICP. Available online at <URL:
http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html >.

Oz: Concepts, Techniques and Models of Computer Programming, by Van
Roy and Haridi. Sometimes shortened to "The Oz book." Read more about
it at <URL: http://www2.info.ucl.ac.be/people/PVR/book.html >.

Eiffel: Object Oriented Software Construction, by Bertrand
Meyer. Referred to as OOSC. Read more about it at <URL:
http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/oosc/ >.

LISP: On LISP, by Paul Graham. Download it at <URL:
http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html >.

The first three are books about programming that happen to use a
specific language that supports the techniques the authors want to
discuss. On LISP on the other hand is more about what's unique about
LISP programming, at least when compared to more conventional
languages. A lot of what's good about LISP is also good about Python,
so a lot of what he has to say carries over into Python. It's also the
only place to get a thorough look at LISP macro programming, which
knowledge does *not* carry over into Python - but you'll understand
why people ask for macros in Python :-).

If you know of some book/language pair that you think everyone would
benefit from reading, I'd be interested in hearing about them.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jason.lai at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 21:32:57 2005
From: jason.lai at gmail.com (Jason  Lai)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 18:32:57 -0700
Subject: C replacement for Queue module
In-Reply-To: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129944777.362827.147670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

How about Python 2.4's collections.deque class? Supposedly it's
thread-safe, and it's implemented in C.

 - Jason



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 16:27:10 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 13:27:10 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129235230.822890.216220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Do you know how any other system manages to do this?  Linux, for example assuming  properly configured system)?  The passwords aren't stored: hashes of the passwords are stored (with additional things thrown in to prevent certain kinds of attacks even if someone nabs the password (/etc/shadow) file).  If you store the password or even encrypt it (i.e. something that can be reversed if someone knows the key), it's a risk.

Ok, I understand it. What about the MD5? Is it good enough to use when
saving a hashed password on the database?

For example:
user_input = raw_input("Type your password: ")
password = md5.md5(user_input).hexdigest()
SavePasswordInDatabase(user,password)



From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 10:34:21 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 14:34:21 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<uk6gd99ns.fsf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F1615F4739Bcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <jadedgamer at hotmail.com> wrote:

> John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> 
>> No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else.
> 
> It is a de facto standard instead of a de jure standard.

Yup, a recommendation.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 20:23:54 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 00:23:54 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<dis512$nlp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0C5539F787castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> 
>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> 
>>> "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
> 
>>>> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
>>>> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
>>>> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
> 
>>>     It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
>>>     applications that
>>> work in any browser on any OS threaten to make it irrelevent what OS
>>> you're running.
> 
>> And it's even easier to understand that your statement is nonsense.
> 
>     To you, if you don't understand it.

See my other example regarding graphics cards. Even if something comes 
out of exactly the same factory (for example CD recordables), people 
prefer one brand over one other, even if the only difference is the name 
on the box. So even if some applications run in a web browser, there 
will be people who prefer OS a over OS b, or Linux distribution c over 
Linux distribution d. Even if it doesn't matter at all.

>> It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the
>> Linux kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same results.
>> Yet people seem to prefer one distribution over one other.
> 
>     Right, and that's what Microsoft wants to avoid. They wants to
>     make sure 
> people *have* to choose a Microsoft operating system to get their 
> applications to work. He 

Who?

> doesn't want most applications to work the
> same on all operating systems. MS was afraid the browser would replace
> the operating system in the sense that it would be the target platform
> for applications.

I have no idea what MS was afraid off. They just deny at first that 
something is important, and then take over. Somehow it works for them.
 
>>> MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important
>>> to be running on one of their OSes.
> 
>> Maybe *they* do have a point :-).
> 
>     Well, they have their vision of the future of computing, and you
>     can bet 
> all things made by Microsoft are at the center of it.

Yup, and I think they will be right for quite some time.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From http  Sun Oct 16 17:07:37 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 14:07:37 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<diuehq$dvb$1@chessie.cirr.com>
Message-ID: <7xk6gdyxuu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ognen Duzlevski <maketo at norge.freeshell.org> writes:
> > Optimizations have a tendency to make a complete mess of Big O
> > calculations, usually for the better. How does this support your
> > theory that Big O is a reliable predictor of program speed?
> 
> There are many things that you cannot predict, however if the
> compiler was sufficiently documented and you had the knowledge of
> the abovementioned peculiarity/optimization, you could take it into
> account. Bear in mind that the example was given to show a problem
> with a purely experimental approach - it tends to show a tree and
> ignore the forest.  Sometimes this tree can be respresentative of a
> forest but many times it might not be.

Consider the claim that earlier in the thread that adding to a hash
table is approximately O(1):

[Stephen D'Aprano]
> And knowing that hash tables are O(1) will not tell you that, will it?
>
> There is only one practical way of telling: do the experiment. Keep
> loading up that hash table until you start getting lots of collisions.

The complexity of hashing depends intricately on the the data and if
the data is carefully constructed by someone with detailed knowledge
of the hash implementation, it may be as bad as O(n) rather than O(1)
or O(sqrt(n)) or anything like that.  Experimentation in the normal
will not discover something like that.  You have to actually
understand what's going on.  See for example:

http://www.cs.rice.edu/~scrosby/hash/


From u.hobelmann at web.de  Wed Oct  5 17:53:53 2005
From: u.hobelmann at web.de (Ulrich Hobelmann)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:53:53 +0200
Subject: check html file size
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.05.20.58.19.87019@zync.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3qj0bhFf3jebU1@individual.net>

Richard Gration wrote:
> Are you fucking seriously fucking expecting some fucking moron to
> translate your tech geeking fucking code moronicity? Fucking try writing
> it fucking properly in fucking Perl first.

Fucking excuse me?

Fucking maybe you should fucking go fucking fuck your fucking self...

Seriously, Xah might be a troll, but this is just pathetic.

-- 
We're glad that graduates already know Java,
so we only have to teach them how to program.
	somewhere in a German company
(credit to M. Felleisen and M. Sperber)


From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Thu Oct 20 05:38:24 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 02:38:24 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1129801104.502548.300340@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Depends on your experience. If you know C,C++,Java and the whole
C-syntax-bunch. I'd recommend Python just to learn to adapt a different
syntax. If you want to learn for the learnings sake, i'd also recommend
Haskell to try functional programming, if you do not already know it.

Ruby has some interesting concepts, Python (well CPython) does not
have. Blocks for example, which make Continuations possible. In Python
you need stackless Python (a different implementation) to do this.



From jenkins.justin at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 18:28:25 2005
From: jenkins.justin at gmail.com (jenkins.justin at gmail.com)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 15:28:25 -0800
Subject: parsing a tuple in embedded python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2708.1130680019.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130673024.215437.53520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2708.1130680019.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130714905.250130.185420@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Fredrik. Yes, I see now how the function works. I'm new to
Python and the book I'm studying out of wasn't too explicit in how to
handle arrays. I've changed the code to what you suggested, but
strangely enough nothing got read into my array. If I return a single
integer from my Python method, I get the expected return using:
 PyArg_Parse(return, "i", &integer);
But,
 PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", array, array+1, array+2)
and
 PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", &array[0], &array[1], &array[2])
does not alter "array" at all. Any ideas? Thanks



Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> jenkins.justin at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I am returning a tuple from my python method and am stuck trying to
> > figure out how to read it into a C array using PyArg_Parse.
> > My C Code:
> > int array[3];
> > PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", &array);
> >
> > My Python Code:
> > mytuple = (1,2,3)
> > return mytuple
> >
> > That gives me a segmentation fault. What am I doing wrong?
>
> you're not providing enough arguments; "iii" means three pointers, not
> one.  try:
>
>     PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", array, array+1, array+2)
>
> instead.  or, if you prefer maximum clarity:
>
>     PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", &array[0], &array[1], &array[2])
>
> (I assume you left out the error handling code; ignoring the return value
> from PyArg_Parse is not a good idea)
> 
> </F>



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 07:14:56 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:14:56 +0200
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <4343B5B0.701@designaproduct.biz>


>
> BTW, you did not write which driver are you using.

Oh, you did. Sorry. :-( Import your DB module 'yourmodule' and then

print yourmodule.paramstyle

Description of paramstyle is also in PEP249:

        paramstyle
          
            String constant stating the type of parameter marker
            formatting expected by the interface. Possible values are
            [2]:

                'qmark'         Question mark style, 
                                e.g. '...WHERE name=?'
                'numeric'       Numeric, positional style, 
                                e.g. '...WHERE name=:1'
                'named'         Named style, 
                                e.g. '...WHERE name=:name'
                'format'        ANSI C printf format codes, 
                                e.g. '...WHERE name=%s'
                'pyformat'      Python extended format codes, 				
				e.g. '...WHERE name=%(name)s'


Best,

   Les

                                e.g. '...WHERE name=%(name)s'




From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct 16 07:51:16 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:51:16 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <IoGBLG.HEC@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote or quoted:

> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
> at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
> running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.
> 
> And a mean game of tetris it played too. Chess wasn't worth the
> humiliation at level 5.
> 
> I believe every researcher in britain got one as a matter of course, but
> they only replaced the perq machines that everyone had had to put up
> with before then.  The vaxen running hpux or so were plentiful too, and
> had fine monitors, tending more to the PC shape.  We'd made our own word
> processor machines and spreadsheet automatons before that.  It didn't
> take that many components, just a good engineer and a room full of
> lackeys with soddering irons.  The BBC were selling kits too (what were
> they?  Ataris?), not that I ever fell for that.

Acorn computers.  Manufacturers of the best computer I ever owned.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Tue Oct 25 02:56:49 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:56:49 GMT
Subject: grep
In-Reply-To: <Nvk7f.14699$gF4.11900@trnddc07>
References: <Nvk7f.14699$gF4.11900@trnddc07>
Message-ID: <1130223409.28336.2.camel@blackwidow>

On Tue, 2005-10-25 at 06:45 +0000, David Isaac wrote:
> What's the standard replacement for the obsolete grep module?

AFAIK there never was a "grep" module.  There does, however exist a
deprecated "regex" module:

>>> import regex
__main__:1: DeprecationWarning: the regex module is deprecated; please
use the re module




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 16:33:38 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:33:38 +0200
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com><di5a0b$ag0$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510071528.25305.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <di6m34$2se$1@sea.gmane.org>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> By the way, dict.org doesn't think "execresence" is a word,
> although I interpret the neologism as meaning something like
> "execrable utterance":
>
> dict.org said:
> > No definitions found for 'execresence'!

however, 'excrescence' appears to be a perfectly cromulent word:

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2004/08/22.html
http://www.wordsmith.org/words/excrescence.html

maybe dict.org just needs to work on their "did you mean" algorithm?

</F>





From martijn at gamecreators.nl  Tue Oct  4 09:26:28 2005
From: martijn at gamecreators.nl (martijn at gamecreators.nl)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:26:28 -0700
Subject: ssh or other python editor
In-Reply-To: <1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128432388.417194.323400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

>So you're using Putty to telenet/ssh into the FreeBSD server, but what
>editor on you using on the FreeBSD server?

I use pico for that.
That Samba isn't available but I can install it.

Or are there other editors for FreeBSD that I can run with putty ?

I'm going googling arround again,
Thanks.



From kaiser.vocote at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 05:19:44 2005
From: kaiser.vocote at gmail.com (Andreas Kaiser)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 02:19:44 -0800
Subject: tachometer diagram
In-Reply-To: <87irvengel.fsf@linux.site>
References: <1130753253.564379.63190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<87irvengel.fsf@linux.site>
Message-ID: <1130753984.928720.9420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hello Jorge,

I can change my mind, sorry. The target OS for this app is Win. When
pyQt4 is available, I will check QT.

Andreas



From ataru at nospam.cyberspace.org  Tue Oct  4 13:35:44 2005
From: ataru at nospam.cyberspace.org (Christopher Benson-Manica)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:35:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dhuehg$i9d$1@chessie.cirr.com>

In comp.lang.c Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
> HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.

I disagree with your disagreement - I at least dislike HTML-only mail
because I often read it in a text-based environment.  I've received a
significant amountof Nigerian spam in plain text lately.

> Program listings are much more readable on my website.

Courier is typically the de facto fixed-width font, and I find that it
is rather too wide a font for program listings.

-- 
Christopher Benson-Manica  | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
ataru(at)cyberspace.org    | don't, I need to know.  Flames welcome.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 19:15:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 01:15:54 +0200
Subject: unable to import os
References: <1128725698.453813.9280@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di6vjd$rq2$1@sea.gmane.org>

"ktxn1020" wrote:

> The script ran well independently using Python's Integrated
> Development Environment version 2.4.1. When it is called from Borland
> C++ Builder 5 with python for delphi version 3.16, it is complained at
> the line "import os", but not at the line "import nt". How can
> I resolve this?

that means that the python path is messed up, so Python cannot
find it's support libraries (usually found under c:/python24/Lib).

I have no idea what "Python for Delphi 3.16" is, so things may be
different for that distribution (if that's what it is).

adding

    import sys
    print sys.path

and comparing that to the actual file structure may help you figure
out what's going on.

> I wonder if there is a built_in command in NT OS specific to get date
> and time of a file. The following command is what I used in my script
> mtime = os.stat(Path + file_name)[os.path.stat.ST_MTIME]

fwiw, that's usually spelled os.path.getmtime in contemporary python.

if you cannot import os, you can use

    mtime = nt.stat("q.py")[8]

but it's probably better to fix the path issue; Python doesn't work well
without the support library.

</F>





From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Oct 15 16:26:59 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 13:26:59 -0700
Subject: Some set operators
Message-ID: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Sometimes I suggest to add things to the language (like adding some set
methods to dicts), but I've seen that I tend to forget the meaning of
six set/frozenset operators:

s & t  s &= t
s | t  s |= t
s ^ t  s ^= t

My suggestion is to remove them, and keep them only as explicit
non-operator versions (.symmetric_difference(), .update(),
.intersection_update(), etc). But maybe now it's too much late to
remove them... Maybe someone gentle can explain me the advantage of
having/keeping them.

Thank you,
Bearophile



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct  9 08:09:38 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:09:38 +0200
Subject: assigning in nested functions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1791.1128858980.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1791.1128858980.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3qsfk4FgimgsU1@uni-berlin.de>

jena wrote:
> Hi
> I have code
> 
> # BEGIN CODE
> def test():
>  def x():
>    print a
>    a=2 # ***
> 
>  a=1
>  x()
>  print a
> 
> test()
> # END CODE
> 
> This code fails (on statement print a in def x), if I omit line marked 
> ***, it works (it prints 1\n1\n). It look like when I assign variable in 
> nested function, I cannot access variable in container function.
> I need to assign variable in container function, is any way to do this?

No. You can access them, but not rebind them. That's a crucial 
difference. So, if a contains a mutable, you can alter that:

def test():
    a = {"foo": "bar"}
    def x():
       a["foo"] = "pillepalle"
    x()
    print a

Or you return that value:

def test()
    a = 10
    def x():
       return a * 10
    a = x()


Diez


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 18:26:47 2005
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 15:26:47 -0700
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <3rstc0Fl9atoU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2269.1129752317.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129761106.725465.42290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3rstc0Fl9atoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129933607.125938.225190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> > Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> >
> >>reset your brain:
> >>
> >>    http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm
> >
> >
> > Neat link.
> >
> > Can you expand on this:
> >
> >
> >>a type (returned by type(x))
> >
> > ...
> >
> >>You cannot change the type.
...
> So what? That the flexibility of python allows for such a hack has
> nothing to do with x being totally unaware of the type of the object it
> points to.

I'm still not understanding, maybe my question was unclear (and was
related to the writeup that was linked, I wasn't saying anything about
the relationships of names and objects).

I'm wondering what is meant by "you cannot change the type", and
whether I'm misunderstanding what is going on in my example when I say
"x.__class__=a".  It looks to me like the type of the object that "x"
is referencing changes, but the URL implies that something else might
actually be happening.  I'm not understanding the distinction.



From quncao at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:31:46 2005
From: quncao at gmail.com (Qun Cao)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:31:46 -0700
Subject: wierd threading behavior
In-Reply-To: <f0_3f.18141$U51.10211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<f0_3f.18141$U51.10211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1129573906.560988.10350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Neil, that's very useful to know.

Qun



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 22:01:41 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:01:41 -0700
Subject: are there internal functions for these ?
In-Reply-To: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dihqq6$153$1@sea.gmane.org>

black wrote:
> hi all~
> 
> i wrote some functions for copying and moving files caz' i didnt find
> concret functions within the doc. but i think these operations are
> simple and important so there may be some internal ones i didnt know.
> anyone could figure me out ? 

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-shutil.html

This is the second hit for the google search:

  site:docs.python.org copy

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 07:31:05 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:31:05 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>     1) There is no other operating system worth selling. In this case, you 
> are right, you have no choice but to sell the Microsoft OS, but the deal 
> they're offering you harms you in no way. (Unless you intended to sell PCs 
> with no OS at all.)

>     2) There are other realistic competing operating systems. In this case, 
> you were foolish to agree to Microsoft's deal. You lost out on the realistic 
> competing markets. That is, unless Windows only really was a better deal, in 
> which case you were wise to take the deal and have no reason to be upset.

3) there are plenty of other OSs that are developed or could be
developed but which cannot get a foothold or even manage to be put on
the shelves because the majority product producer insists on charging
hardware manufacturers for every box produced, whether or not it carries
their o/s, and does other nasty things like sabotaging their own
products so they won't work with a clone o/s.

Sorry - that's not legal, fair, just, or good for the market. It means
that anybody with a 51% share of the market automatically gets 100%.

Stop this apologism now.

Peter


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 10:34:50 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:34:50 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1128950434.39fd35611ed1ab1bc0f2addf2fbd88c5@teranews>
Message-ID: <1h485b3.1gf4xvmyvod1N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

George Sakkis <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:
   ...
> > i.e., a heap solution may be over 4 times faster than a sort-based one
> > (in the following implementations).
> 
> Interesting; I thought timsort on small almost ordered lists would be
> practically as fast as the heap. Still, how is 0.10344 over 4 times faster
> than 0.247116 ?

Oops, 2.5 times (for 10 streams) -- the ratio keeps getting bigger with
the number of streams, the figure 4 I had in mind was probably from
comparisons with 50 streams or so.

timsort needs N comparisons even if the list is already ordered (just to
check it is) while heaps can do with log(N) comparisons or even less in
the best case -- that's the key issue here.

> >   sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next] for i, s in enumerate(streams)]
   ...
> Indeed, these are almost equivalent as far as readability goes; the
> previous examples in the thread were less clear. By the way, why do you
> need 'i' and enumerate above ?

Making sure that, if the first items are identical, the sorting (or
comparison for heap) does not compare the _methods_ -- no big deal if it
does, but that doesn't logically make sense.  If we had key= arguments,
that would ENSURE no such comparison, but heaps didn't support that in
2.4 and I wanted to keep the playing field level, so I used the above
old trick to ensure stable sorting without comparisons beyond a given
field (more details were explained in the 1st edition of the Cookbook,
but I hope I give the general idea).


Alex


From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 16 13:48:52 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:48:52 GMT
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
In-Reply-To: <ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <8ow4f.152082$xl6.136638@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Christian Stapfer wrote:

>     It turned out that the VAX compiler had been
> clever enough to hoist his simple-minded test
> code out of the driving loop. In fact, our VAX
> calculated the body of the loop only *once*
> and thus *immediately* announced that it had finished
> the whole test - the compiler on this student's
> PC, on the other hand, had not been clever enough
> for this type of optimization: hence the difference...
> 
>   I think this is really a cautionary tale for
> experimentalists: don't *believe* in the decisiveness
> of the outcomes your experiments, but try to *understand*
> them instead (i.e. relate them to your theoretical grasp
> of the situation)...
> 
> Regards,
> Christian

True understanding is of course the ideal, but as complexity increases 
even theoretical information on a complex system becomes incomplete as 
there are often other influences that will effect the outcome.

So the you could say: don't *depend* on the completeness of your 
theoretical information, try to *verify* the validity of your results 
with experiments.

Cheers,
    Ron



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Fri Oct  7 11:19:28 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:19:28 +0200
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43469200$0$11129$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> Sorry Fredrik but I don't understand. Just comment out the assert and
> you have different results depending on whether an unrelated sort
> function is defined.
> This seems weird to me !

code snippet:

> from random import choice
> class OBJ:
> 	def __init__(self,identifier):
> 		self.id=identifier
> 		self.allocated=0 # Your problem begins here...

> 	def __cmp__(self,other):
                # it continues here
> 		return cmp(other.allocated,self.allocated)
> mylist=[OBJ(i) for i in range(20)]
> excluded=[obj for obj in mylist if obj.id>choice(range(20))]
> for obj in mylist:
> 	if obj in excluded: # and you see it in action here
> 		assert obj.id in [objt.id for objt in excluded]
> 		continue

How do you think the "membership" test works ? Could it be possible that
it uses the __cmp__ method ? And if so, how do you think your instances
will compare knowing that your __cmp__ method will return equality for
all the instances in this snippet ?

Just change your __init__ method to:

	def __init__(self,identifier):
		self.id=identifier
 		self.allocated=identifier

and rerun the test.

I don't think this is a bug...

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct 25 02:58:43 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:58:43 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlrlt2.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-24, David Schwartz schreef <davids at webmaster.com>:
>
> "Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message 
> news:slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...
>
>>>     Microsoft had something you need so badly that you could not go into
>>> business without it. So they demanded from you that you pay them what 
>>> their
>>> software was actually worth to you. That is not extortion. Everyone who
>>> sells something tries to get the maximum possible value for it.
>
>> If a company wants to be paid for things it didn't deliver, then I think
>> that is extortion. Microsoft want te be paid a license on windows for
>> P.C.'s that were sold without windows.
>
>     I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary. I can walk up 
> to you and say "if you want me to mow your lawn, you must pay me $1 every 
> time you smoke a cigarette". So long as you can say "no" and all that 
> happens is that I don't mow your lawn (which I have no obligation to do 
> anyway), it isn't extortion.

If you would happen to have a monopoly on the mowing business, which
would make it very hard for me to have my lawn mowed unless I took
your offer, it would be.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Oct 15 09:26:33 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 06:26:33 -0700
Subject: MS Word Outline -> reStructuredText script?
References: <1129319634.407351.27080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129322010.339492.319420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129323965.137194.173250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dir029$c31$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <1129323965.137194.173250 at g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Jim <mrmaple at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>David Mertz has an article that shows reSt -> DocBook, I just need to
>do the opposite.

Note that this is tricky because reST has fewer features/capabilities
than DocBook.  More to the point, reST simply isn't designed to be
machine-generated; there has been some discussion on the docutils
mailing lists about this, and I suggest you look in the archives.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur."  --Red Adair


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Fri Oct 14 23:22:51 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:22:51 -0400
Subject: Reading IEEE 754 format strings directly into a floating point array
Message-ID: <435075e5$0$54633$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

I am querying an instrument in a measurement application.

The values are returned as IEEE format binary floating point numbers. There
are 4 bytes per point. Multiple points are not separated by any delimiter.

Is it possible to read these directly into a floating point array of the
size of the string ?

Alternatively, I could write a routine to do it, but wanted to find out if
there was a simpler solution.


From arotem at juniper.net  Mon Oct 17 03:52:45 2005
From: arotem at juniper.net (arotem)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 00:52:45 -0700
Subject: TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
	instance as first argument (got test instance instead)
In-Reply-To: <diu1ul$2ae$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1129481319.436107.16950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<diu1ul$2ae$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1129535565.294586.75300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks... it solves the problem :-)



From jwentingathornetdotdemondotnl  Sun Oct 16 05:49:58 2005
From: jwentingathornetdotdemondotnl (Jeroen Wenting)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:58 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:t3k623-c5c.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> 
> wrote:
>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more 
>> powerful
>> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb
>> mainframe terminals.
>
> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
> at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
> running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.
>
And how many people who now have $500 PCs ($200 of which is the cost of the 
OS) would have been able to afford those?

My point is that Microsoft made computers that were more than glorified 
gaming consoles affordable for the common man.
They are the ones who lowered the price of shrinkwrapped software for home 
and office application from thousands or tens of thousands to hundreds of 
dollars.




From jzgoda at o2.usun.pl  Wed Oct 19 15:17:57 2005
From: jzgoda at o2.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:17:57 +0200
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
In-Reply-To: <VTn5f.15916$65.429948@twister1.libero.it>
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
	<VTn5f.15916$65.429948@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <dj666h$hkj$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Giovanni Bajo napisa?(a):

> Remember that the directory where you start the toplevel script is always
> included in the sys.path. This means that you can have your structure like
> this:
> 
> main.py
>    |
>    | - - pkg1
>    | - - pkg2
>    | - - pkg3
> 
> Files in any package can import other packages. The usual way is to do "import
> pkgN" and then dereference. Within each package, you will have a __init__.py
> which will define the package API (that is, will define those symbols that you
> can access from outside the package).

How to install this structure eg. on Linux? What layout do you
recommend? It's tempting to use /opt hierarchy for installation target
(as it gives relatively much freedom within application directory), but
many administrators are reluctant to use this hierarchy and prefer more
standarized targets, such as /usr or /usr/local.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 06:28:34 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 03:28:34 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
In-Reply-To: <435cb299$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130122476.079450.216280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wiqv.m4hrpogqt6tvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130127914.446263.222800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<435cb299$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1130149714.759398.241260@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

thanks. Seems that my programs are very simple and don't need these
feature yet.

Kent Johnson wrote:
> bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> > counting that out(regardless whether it is (dis)advantage or not), what
> > else a block can do but not a named function ?
>
> My limited understanding is that the advantage is
> - simpler syntax
> - high level of integration into the standard library (*many* methods that take closure arguments). Blocks are used not just for iteration but for the kinds of things shown in the examples to PEP 343 http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0343.html
>
> For example to open a file and read from it uses two closures, one to wrap a block with the file open/close, one to iterate lines (from the pickaxe book):
>
> File.open("testfile") do |file|
>   file.each_line { |line| puts line }
> end
>
> Kent
>
> >
> > Alex Martelli wrote:
> >
> >>bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>could someone enlighten me what is the advantage of block over named
> >>>function ?
> >>>
> >>>One thing that I can see a difference may be lexical scope ?
> >>
> >>"Yes, but" -- according to the latest Ruby book, the "mixed lexical
> >>scope" of blocks is a highly controversial notion in the Ruby community;
> >>so I wouldn't necessarily count it as an _advantage_ of Ruby blocks...
> >>
> >>
> >>Alex
> > 
> >



From ggrp1.20.martineau at dfgh.net  Thu Oct 27 16:48:47 2005
From: ggrp1.20.martineau at dfgh.net (Martin Miller)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 13:48:47 -0700
Subject: Signals and keyboard interupts
Message-ID: <1130446127.023408.95160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

[Using Windows XP and Python 2.4.1]

I have question about the following code, which basically accomplished
what what I want, which is to gracefully exit the main loop when the
user presses either the control-c or control-break key:

import signal
import sys
import time
import traceback

QUIT = False

def mySigHandler(*whatever):
    global QUIT # Change value of QUIT
    QUIT = True
    print
    print "Interrupt caught and QUIT flag set"

# call the above procedure, when control-c or control-break is pressed.
old_SIGINT_Handler = signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, mySigHandler)
old_SIGBREAK_Handler = signal.signal(signal.SIGBREAK, mySigHandler)

while 1:
    try:
        if QUIT:
            break # exit loop

        print "Processing..."
        time.sleep(2)

    except IOError, (errno, strerror):
        if errno == 4: # Interrupted function call
                       # mySigHandler called, so will ignore here
            continue
        else: # some other IOerror -- print info and break out of loop
            print "IOError[%s] exception occured: %s" % (errno,
strerror)
            traceback.print_exc(file=sys.stdout)
            break

print "finished"
# restore old signal handlers
signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, old_SIGINT_Handler)
signal.signal(signal.SIGBREAK, old_SIGBREAK_Handler)

My question is why is the a try/except block necessary?  If it's left
out, and unhandled exception occurs.  Seems like catching the signals
before python's default handler gets them should prevent it from being
turned into an exception.  I don't understand how this is happening in
the above code.

I read several other posts about the subject, notably the one by Bengt
Richter in
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/5b27edd0df08170a?hl=en&,
but haven't been able to figure out why the [much more involved]
example in his post does not seem to exhibit this problem (i.e. it has
no try/except block).

Thanks in advance for any help.
-Martin



From sebastien.martini at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 10:44:04 2005
From: sebastien.martini at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?c+liYXN0aWVu?=)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 07:44:04 -0700
Subject: Abstract Methods & Abstract Class
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2300.1129797218.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D91@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
	<20051020065644.GA10206@heaven.kostyrka.org>
	<mailman.2300.1129797218.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129819443.926877.107820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

or 

[...]
def method(self):
    assert not "must be overrided"



From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 06:19:44 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:19:44 GMT
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

bruno at modulix wrote:
> Alex Hunsley wrote:
> 
>>There's no really specific questions in this post, but I'm looking for
>>people's thought on the issues within...
>>
>>
>>The two main versions I've encountered for data pseudo-hiding
>>(encapsulation) 
> 
> 
> <OT>
> Hmmm... Are data-hiding and encapsulation really the same things ?
> </OT>

No, they're not, I was just being careless there, please disregard any 
apparent implication that they are.

>>in python are:
>>
>>method 1:
>>
>>_X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
>>      know that this data should be private.
>>
>>
>>method 2:
>>
>>__X - (double underscore) - mangles the name (in a predictable way).
>>      Avoids name pollution.
>>
>>
>>How often does either tend to get used? Personally, I'd be a little
>>worried about using method 1, because namespace clashes could happen. Is
>>this overly paranoid?
> 
> 
> Probably.
> 
> Note that prefixing names with a single underscore have a 'protected'
> semantic - which means that such names (well, the objects that are bound
> to...) can be overriden/extends by child classes.

Ah, my mistake, not merely cosmetic then! Thanks.

> 
> I personnally only use the double-underscore notation only for things
> that are *really* implementation-specific *and* should *really not* be
> overriden.

ok.

>>Also, I presume that rather than people writing their own manual getter
>>and setter methods, they tend to use either overloading on __getattr__
>>and __setattr__, or the Property class (which itself uses aforementioned
>> methods). 
> 
> 
> Yeps... This is the pythonic way.
> 
> 
>>Overloading __getattr__ etc. seems more attractive to me, as
>>then I can capture access to unknown names, and raise an exception!
>>(I really don't like the idea of random attribute name typos going
>>unnoticed when accessing attributes in a class!)
> 
> 
> Err... Have you *really* tried to access an inexistant attribute ?  This
> is usually not 'unnoticed' (unless you consider the raising of an
> AttributeError as being the same as 'unnoticed' !-)

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I should have said is that I don't 
like the idea of a typo in an assignment causing the assigning of the 
wrong thing.
e.g. imagine a simple value-holding class:

class Values:
	pass

v = Values()

v.conductoin = 10


... I meant to type 'conduction' in the source but spelt it wrong.
My value won't be there when elsewhere I refer to the correct attribute: 
"conduction".



> I personnaly use 'magic' accessors only for delegation or like, and
> properties (or custom descriptors) for anything else (that requires
> it...). This avoid the Big-Switch-Syndrom in __getattr__ and setattr__,
> and is much more explicit (API, documentation, introspection etc...).

Right, good point.

>>Note: I do know that the use of the above things is quite dependent on
>>what exactly you're coding, the size of the project etc., but what I'm
>>trying to find out about is the python communities' recognised good
>>practices.
> 
> 
> Then launch your python interactive shell and type "import this"

Thanks for that, I didn't know about that!
alex


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Tue Oct 11 12:26:59 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:26:59 +0200
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndkmo1c.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<dig094$ntj$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<pan.2005.10.11.14.20.08.619909@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h4a55d.cdmdgr1udkvayN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
   ...
> > s = [k for k in iterable]
> > 
> > if I know beforehand how many items iterable would possibly yield, would
> > a construct like this be faster and "use" less memory?
> > 
> > s = [0] * len(iterable)
> > for i in xrange(len(iterable)):
> >      s[i] = iterable.next()
> 
> Faster? Maybe. Only testing can tell -- but I doubt it. But as for less

Testing, of course, is trivially easy:

Helen:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'i=xrange(7)' 'L=[x for x in i]'
100000 loops, best of 3: 6.65 usec per loop

Helen:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'i=xrange(7)' 'L=list(i)'         
100000 loops, best of 3: 5.26 usec per loop

So, using list() instead of that silly list comprehension does have an
easily measurable advantage.  To check the complicated option...:

Helen:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'i=xrange(7)' '
s = [0]*7
u = iter(i)
for x in xrange(7):
  s[x] = u.next()
'
10000 loops, best of 3: 24.7 usec per loop

So, the "advantage" of all the complications is to slow down execution
by about four times -- net of all the juicy possibilities for confusion
and errors (there is no common Python type on which you can both call
len(...) AND the .next() method, for example -- a combination which
really makes no sense).

*SIMPLICITY* is the keyword here -- list(...) is by far simplest, and
almost five times faster than that baroque gyrations above...


Alex


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct  7 06:26:39 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 10:26:39 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndkcjav.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-07, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-06, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at nospam.web.de>:
>> 
>>>>Suppose we have a typesystem which has the type ANY, which would mean
>>>>such an object could be any type. You could then have homogenous lists
>>>>in the sense that all elements should be of the same declared type and
>>>>at the same time mix all kind of type in a particular list, just
>>>>as python does.
>>>
>>>The you have JAVA Object or C void*. Which cause all kinds of runtime 
>>>troubles.... because they essentially circumvene the typechecking!
>> 
>> 
>> Why do you call this a JAVA Object or C void*? Why don't you call
>> it a PYTHON object. It is this kind of reaction that IMO tells most
>> opponents can't think outside the typesystems they have already
>> seen and project the problems with those type systems on what
>> would happen with python should it acquire a type system.
>> 
> [sigh]. No, it's just you being you. Diez' intention seemed fairly clear 
> to me: he is pointing out that strongly-typed systems invariably fall 
> back on generic declarations when they want to allow objects of any type 
> (which, it seems to me, is what you were proposing as well).

It is not about falling back on generic declarartion, it is about
how such object will be treated. Diez seems to think that
strongly-typed language can only deal with generic declarations
by using something that allows circumventing the type system.

> In other words, you want Python to be strongly-typed, but sometimes you 
> want to allow a reference to be to any object whatsoever. In which case 
> you can't possibly do any sensible type-checking on it, so this new 
> Python+ or whatever you want to call it will suffer from the same 
> shortcomings that C++ and java do, which is to say type checking can't 
> possibly do anything useful when the acceptable type of a reference is 
> specified as ANY.

And you are wrong. The problem with the C void* construct (I'm not that
familiar with java) is that all type information is lost. When you
use such a parameter in a function you have no idea what you are
working with.

But that doesn't need to be if you have a typesystem with an ANY type.
Such a type declaration would mean that object of any type could be
used here. However that doesn't imply that the type information
of the actual objects used, has to be lost. That type information
may still be available and usefull for further type checking.

That you and Diez can only think about C, C++ or java constructs
when I mention an ANY type, is your limitation. It doesn't
need to be the limitation of a specific type system.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 17 19:31:56 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:31:56 GMT
Subject: override a property
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129572812.400706.62190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43543233.268715742@news.oz.net>

On 17 Oct 2005 11:13:32 -0700, "SPE - Stani's Python Editor" <spe.stani.be at gmail.com> wrote:

>No, you can just do it on the fly. You can even create properties
>(attributes) on the fly.
>
>class Dummy:
>   property = True
>
>d = Dummy()
>d.property = False
>d.new = True
>
a simple attribute is not a property in the sense Robin meant it,
and a "data property" is even more specific. See

    http://docs.python.org/ref/descriptor-invocation.html

also

 >>> help(property)
 Help on class property in module __builtin__:

 class property(object)
  |  property(fget=None, fset=None, fdel=None, doc=None) -> property attribute
  |
  |  fget is a function to be used for getting an attribute value, and likewise
  |  fset is a function for setting, and fdel a function for del'ing, an
  |  attribute.  Typical use is to define a managed attribute x:
  |  class C(object):
  |      def getx(self): return self.__x
  |      def setx(self, value): self.__x = value
  |      def delx(self): del self.__x
  |      x = property(getx, setx, delx, "I'm the 'x' property.")
  |


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peck at spss.com  Mon Oct  3 09:33:00 2005
From: peck at spss.com (Peck, Jon)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:33:00 -0500
Subject: Finding the Process Path
Message-ID: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62190@hqemail2.spss.com>

Thanks, but this doesn't tell me what I am looking for.

I am looking for the path for the current process (which will not be the Python interpreter).

I see, though, that this is available as sys.executable

Regards,
Jon Peck

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+jkpeck=aya.yale.edu at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+jkpeck=aya.yale.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of gene tani
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 7:39 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Finding the Process Path

other ways to get at info:

if sys.hexversion > 0x010502F0:

sys.versioninfo, version, etc.

platform.architecture, processor etc.

distutils.sysconfig.get_makefile_filename(  )

Benji York wrote:
> Peck, Jon wrote:
> > I have Python code running in an application, and I would like to find
> > the full path of the process executable where it is running.
>
> Like this?
>
>  >>> import sys
>  >>> sys.executable
> '/usr/bin/python'
> --
> Benji York

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From christian at spam.not  Fri Oct 21 03:26:40 2005
From: christian at spam.not (Christian)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:26:40 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <XbydnRySP_peD8XenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@speakeasy.net>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<XbydnRySP_peD8XenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <43589834$0$99986$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Christian wrote:
> 
>> Can I write a .py script that calls a .sh script that executes the 
>> export command and then calls another .py script (and how would the 
>> first .py script look)?
> 
> No, the shell script that the Python program would invoke would be a 
> different process and so commands executed in it would have no effect on 
> the state of another.
> 

So executing an .sh script that calls a .py script works different when 
executed from a command promt than when executed from a starter .py script?


From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 21:16:32 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Clint Norton)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 18:16:32 -0700
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
In-Reply-To: <8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128906992.565860.327040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well,
    I though about it but I'm looking for something a little more
interesting then bug fixing...
Anyway, wouldn't it be to difficult to get into a huge project like
python itself? Wouldn't it be a better idea to walk into a project that
only have a few developers in it?
    I was thinking of the mozilla calender project (which is usfull and
i think is the smallest mozilla project) but I'm not really into c++.
Maybe I should take a look at some of the modules I've used and see if
I can help there.

Thanks,
CN



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Oct 13 18:53:27 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:53:27 -0700
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2022.1129227088.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <dim5kv$2jl$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2022.1129227088.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ntudnVqlx-r6eNPeRVn-tg@speakeasy.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Neal Becker wrote:
> 
>> I can do this with a generator:
>>
>>     def integers():
>>         x = 1
>>         while (True):
>>             yield x
>>             x += 1
>>
>> for i in integers():
>>
>> Is there a more elegant/concise way?
> 
> depends on your definition of "integers":
> 
>     xrange(sys.maxint) # 0-based
>     xrange(1, sys.maxint) # 1-based

The negative integers are being descriminated against!  I demand justice!

	def integers():
	    yield 0
	    x = 1
	    while True:
	        yield x
	        yield -x
	        x += 1

... which is also not a bad demonstration of how the integers are 
countably infinite.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the
   gun it is necessary to take up the gun. -- Mao Zedong, 1898-1976


From a.jaffe-usenet at bakerjaffe.plus.com  Thu Oct 20 15:22:01 2005
From: a.jaffe-usenet at bakerjaffe.plus.com (Andrew Jaffe)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:22:01 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
Message-ID: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>

Hi,

I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to 
store global state information for all instances of a class. These are 
set by a classmethod as in the following (in reality the setcvar method 
is more complicated than this!):

class sup(object):
     cvar1 = None
     cvar2 = None

     @classmethod
     def setcvar1(cls, val):
         cls.cvar1 = val

     @classmethod
     def setcvar2(cls, val):
         cls.cvar2 = val

     @classmethod
     def printcvars(cls):
	print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2


I can then call setcvar on either instances of the class or the class 
itself.

Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I 
override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this 
class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:

class sub(sup):
     cvar1a = None

     @classmethod
     def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
         cls.cvar1a = vala
         sup.setcvar1(val)

     @classmethod
     def printcvars(cls):
         print cls.cvar1a
         sup.printcvars()

This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.

However, if  I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call 
sub.setcvar2(val) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no 
longer identical to sup.cvar1!

In particular,
     sub.setcvar1(1,10)
     sub.setcvar2(2)
     sub.printcvars()
prints
   10
   1 None

i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None

since sup.cvar2 has never been set, and this is what sup.printcvars() 
looks for.

This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?

For my application, at least, I think the problem really comes in the 
printcvars method: is there any way to call the overridden 
sup.printcvars() but with, effectively, cls=sub?

Thanks for reading this far!

Andrew


Andrew




This seems like a bug

Is this expected behavior, or a bug (or both -- it is expected but 
probably not what is wanted!)?


From christian at spam.not  Thu Oct 20 08:30:42 2005
From: christian at spam.not (Christian)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:30:42 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2307.1129810742.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.2307.1129810742.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43578df7$0$99996$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Thanks Jeff and the crazy 88.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct  2 05:43:58 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:43:58 +0100
Subject: Python CGI Script
In-Reply-To: <433f9875@news.bezeqint.net>
References: <433f9875@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <dhoa4s$6vb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Efrat Regev wrote:
>      Hello,
> 
>      I'm a data-structures course TA trying to write a python CGI script 
> for automatically compiling and testing students' projects. 
> Unfortunately, I've run into some questions while writing this, which I 
> couldn't solve with the various (and helpful) python-CGI documentation. 
> (It's possible that I'm posting to the wrong group; if so, I'd 
> appreciate suggestions for the appropriate group.)
> 
> 
> 1. In my HTML page, I have the following:
> 
> <form method="post" action="submission_processor.py" 
> enctype="multipart/form-data">
> ...
> </form>
> 
>      In the above, submission_processor.py is the python CGI script. I 
> didn't write a URL in the action field, since I'm first testing 
> everyting on a local machine (running FC4). The first line of 
> submission_processor.py is
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> and I've done
> 
> chmod +x submission_processor.py
> 
>      When I hit the "submit" button, my browser (Firefox on FC4) doesn't 
> run the script; it asks me whether it should open 
> submission_processor.py or save it to disk. I couldn't figure out why.
> 
You also have to have the executable script inside a directory that is 
recognised as being a script directory (usually achieved with an Apache 
ScriptAlias directive), or have the server otherwise recognise .py files 
as executable (just setting the +x mode bit isn't enough).

In the absence of such knowledge the server just returns the content of 
the file rather than the content produced by *executing* the file.

> 2. My HTML page has the option for an instructor to list the various 
> submissions and scores. Obviously, this should be inaccessible to 
> students. The instructor has a password for doing this, therefore. 
> Suppose I place the password inside a python script, and give this 
> script only +x permission for others. Is this  adequate as far as security?
> 
That depends on whether you wanted to use HTTP security (provided 
automatically by the web server) or application security (provided by 
your code).

In the case of a script which is for general running but where some of 
the script's functionality shouldn't be generally available you are 
stuck with the latter. It's OK to have passwords in your script as long 
as you are sure that the script isn;t going to be served up as content 
like it currently is!

> 
>      Thanks in advance for answering these questions.
> 
> 
>       Efrat

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 17 13:21:58 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:21:58 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <IoI8s9.JAG@bath.ac.uk>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<b4v4l1hu7v0cirvhii19inrbbf94reofhk@4ax.com>
	<IoI8s9.JAG@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <55EAF01F-F655-401E-A1BD-541E248DE390@sbcglobal.net>

We all know all of the horrible things about Microsoft, and I suspect  
most of us agree they put out cruddy software. But why is this a  
topic for the Python list?

Ken


From http  Sat Oct  1 03:28:27 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Oct 2005 00:28:27 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> Unless your compiler detects and flags passing private variables to
> external functions all you've got is a convention that you don't pass
> private variables to external functions.

Yes, the point is that it's something that you can check for by
examining the class in question without having to examine any other
classes.

> Are you going to try and tell me thas using builtin functions on
> private variables is something you don't allow in your projects?

You have to treat builtin functions as part of the language.  Of
course Python has this situation where someone could rebind the name
"len" to some other function, so you have to deal with that too, maybe
just at the file scope.  An OOP approach (lst.len() instead of
len(lst)) that binds the builtin names to datatypes might be
preferable in some situations but I'll leave that one for the
theorists.

> Of course, there's nothing wrong with catching errors earlier. Might I
> suggest that you file a change request for pylint (or your favorite
> error checker) asking that it start issuing warnings for
> object._variable?

I don't see how pylint could know which instances to flag, without
doing type inference on all the objects to know that the variable
belonged to an instance of some other class.


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 19 11:08:44 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:08:44 -0700
Subject: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
In-Reply-To: <1129721976.745281.64800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2224.1129656465.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129663697.620665.99040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1129666797.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129675547.108377.246320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129721976.745281.64800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051019150844.GA20480@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 19, Chris Lasher wrote:
> Where do you guys go to learn all the capabilities of Vim? Just
> browsing through vim.org?

Just type:
   :h
to see extensive info from the "User Manual", "Reference Manual", and
any plugins.

The near-comprehensive doc list:
   http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/
I don't see the "Reference Manual" there.

The User Manual in PDF (which I printed really small on 14 pages and
now carry in my backpack):
   http://www.eandem.co.uk/mrw/vim/usr_doc/index.html

And the Vim Book (which I have only scanned):
   http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf

-- 
_  _     ___
|\/|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
"  "     """


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 14 16:04:30 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:04:30 -0400
Subject: object inheritance and default values
References: <q7T3f.14417$ae.3253@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1129320301.22b6eac21f6406269fe235d5ba702f24@teranews>

"Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to implement simple svg style colored complex objects in
> tkinter and want to be able to inherit default values from other
> previously defined objects.
>
> I want to something roughly similar to ...
>
>     class shape(object):
>          def __init__(self, **kwds):
>               # set a bunch of general defaults here.
>               self.__dict__.update(kwds)
> def draw(self, x=0, y=0, scale=1.0):
>               # draw the object
>
>     hello = shape(text='hello')
>     redhello = hello(color='red')
>     largeredhello = redhello(size=100)
>     largeredhiya = largeredhello(text='Hiya!')
>     largeredhiya.draw(c, 20, 50)
>
>
> I think this will need to require __new__ or some other way to do it.
> But I'm not use how to get this kind of behavior.  Maybe the simplest
> way is to call a method.
>
>     redhello = hello.makenew( color='red' )

Just name it '__call__' instead of makenew and you have the syntax sugar you want:

    def __call__(self, **kwds):
        new = self.__class__(**self.__dict__)
        new.__dict__.update(kwds)
        return new

Personally I would prefer an explicit method name, e.g. 'copy'; hiding the fact that 'shape' is a
class while the rest are instances is likely to cause more trouble than it's worth.

George




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 02:08:29 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:08:29 +0200
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
References: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dht690$5et$1@sea.gmane.org>

pnau at sjm.com wrote:

> The main jist of the problem is that I'm trying add data from one
> module to a list and a dictionary in another module, and it doesn't
> seem to stick over there.
>
> The programs below seem to illustrate the issue.  (The results follow
> the programs).
> Why are the results different from runs of the two programs?  The
> output of nameSpaceTestB.py makes sense to me, but I just don't get why
> nameSpaceTestA.py does what it does.
>
> I'm sure the reason is very simple, but I just don't see it.  Please,
> can someone shed some light on the issue for me?

running a piece of python code as a script isn't the same thing as
importing it as a module:

    "If you run a module as a script (i.e. give its name to the inter-
    preter, rather than importing it), it's loaded under the module
    name __main__.

    If you then import the same module from your program, it's re-
    loaded and reexecuted under its real name. If you're not careful,
    you may end up doing things twice."

    http://effbot.org/zone/import-confusion.htm

try changing your "printing from"-statements to

    print "printing from", __name__

to see what you're really doing.

</F>





From michael+USENET at www.heiming.de  Sat Oct 15 14:33:59 2005
From: michael+USENET at www.heiming.de (Michael Heiming)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:33:59 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
	<8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <nlu723-0vp.ln1@news.heiming.de>

In comp.os.linux.misc Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es>:
> In comp.os.linux.misc John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> wrote:
>> Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
[..]

>> Sun Microsystems was incorporated (with four employees) in February 1982.
>> There never was a SunOS 3.8.  (SunOS 3.5 was succeeded by 4.0.)  And I'm

> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?

Looks like SunOS 1.0 came out February 1982, according to:

http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#05

Kudos to the one who did the work!

-- 
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry at urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 44: bank holiday - system operating credits
not recharged^


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Oct 12 14:24:17 2005
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:24:17 GMT
Subject: calling matlab
References: <mailman.1956.1129122707.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lxc3f.22183$0c.4164@tornado.texas.rr.com>

"Mohammed Smadi" <smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.1956.1129122707.509.python-list at python.org...
> Hi;
>
> Does anyone know if we can call matlab for a python or bash script while
> feeding the matlab script some command line arguments?  I have an
> interactive matlab script which i want to automate by feeding the args
> from a script.
>
> I know this is probably more suitable to a matlab group but any ideas will
> be appreciated.
>
> thanks
> moe smadi
>
Mohammed -

I worked through this a while back, and posted my solution at
http://www.geocities.com/ptmcg/python/using_matlab_from_python.html.

Best of luck,
-- Paul




From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Fri Oct 21 09:47:43 2005
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 14:47:43 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3nc*FXJ1q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

bruno modulix  <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote:
>> "Casey Hawthorne" <caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca> wrote in message 
>> news:02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug at 4ax.com...
>>>I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
>>>about
>>>10,000 lines in C++
>>>it is about
>>>5,000 lines in Java
>>>and it is about
>>>3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)
>
>For a whole lot of common tasks (like file IO etc), the Java/Python loc
>ratio is between 5/1 and 10/1. Also, not having the dumbest type system
>in the world, Python is naturally much more generic than Java, which
>saves a lot of boilerplate code. I think that the real numbers would be
>much like 5000 lines in Java -> 1000 lines in Python - and probably 5000
>-> 500 in some cases.

I have here a library (it's the client side of a client-server
interface including a pile of class definitions) which has
implementations in pure C++, Java and Python, taking about 3000,
3500 and 1500 loc respectively. And there's an associated module
(with no C++ implementation) that I remember being particular
"impressed" while writing it to find being 3 times as long in Java
as Python despite (a) extensive (and pretty much common) Javadoc/
docstrings and (b) implementing in the Python version a feature
present in the standard Java library (scheduling a thread to run
at specified intervals and time out). Strip the Javadoc/docstrings
out and it's about at that 5:1 ratio.

As for Ruby, looking at some of the comparisons given elsewhere
in this thread, my intuition is that it would be more loc than
Python due to all the explicit end s.

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 25 10:29:52 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:29:52 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129927722.835095.191620@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11lilpklp9mib0f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129935678.372329.107850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130194705.182317.124380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lsgb04q1cqi07@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-24, nephish at xit.net <nephish at xit.net> wrote:
> ok, i am stuck a bit here with this line
>
> gp('set xtics (%s)' % ','.join(ticstrings))
>
> the error code says that it is looking for a closing parenthesis.

Well, what is the value of ticstrings? 

Try passing the parameter debug=1 to Guplot.Gnuplot():

  gp = Gnuplot.Gnuplot(debug=1)

Then it will print out all of the gnuplot commands to stdout.

> that and i am kinda new enough not to really get what %s is
> all about. i know it formats a string.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=python+string+formatting

Follow the first hit.

> can you simply pass a list to 'set xtics' ?

That depends.  What do you mean by "a list", and what do you
mean "pass it to 'set xtics'"?

> i mean, i got this from the gnuplot site
>
> Syntax:
>
>      set xtics {axis | border} {{no}mirror} {{no}rotate {by <ang>}}
>                {offset <offset> | nooffset}
>                {  autofreq
>                 | <incr>
>                 | <start>, <incr> {,<end>}
>                 | ({"<label>"} <pos> {<level>} {,{"<label>"}...) }
>                { font "name{,<size>}" }
>                { textcolor <colorspec> }
>      unset xtics
>      show xtics
>
> but it does not look like all the options are necessary from
> the docs, i guess i am asking, if i just wanted to pass a list
> of say, 14 tics to the x axis as a list, what of the above is
> necessary ?

Well, you could start up gnuplot at the command line and try a
few "set xtics" commands.  That's how I figur gnuplot commands
out.  The format for the set xtics command that I was using in
my demo was

      set xtics  ("label" pos, "label" pos, "label" pos)

> i built the list by taking time stamps in seconds (the same as
> being plotted for x) took the end time minus the start time
> and divided by 12, incremented each by this amount until i had
> 12 plots (plus of course the first and last). these are all
> stored in plot_times[]..

We can't read your mind.  Unless you show us actual code, we
can't help.  Show us a small example program with Gnuplot's
debug feature enabled that doesn't do what you want it to.

Tell us what it is you wanted the program to do and post the
output from that program.  Do _not_ attempt to re-type the
output from the program.  Either redirect it to a file or
cut/paste it.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PUNK ROCK!! DISCO
                                  at               DUCK!! BIRTH CONTROL!!
                               visi.com            


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 17 23:45:42 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:45:42 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's 
> obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with 
> Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or fraud.

Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
That obligation has nothing to do with computing - it's to make a
profit. It's MS's habit of doing things in pursuit of profit that,
while short of force, are borderline fraud, and are illegal, immoral,
unethical, bad for their business partners, bad for their customers,
bad for the industry and bad for society that causes people to
characterize them as "evil".

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Fri Oct 28 15:28:36 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:28:36 -0400
Subject: Why doesn't this work? :)
In-Reply-To: <20051028185010.GA26260@kateandchris.net>
References: <1130522549.4095.19.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<20051028185010.GA26260@kateandchris.net>
Message-ID: <1130527716.4095.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 14:50 -0400, Chris Lambacher wrote:
> I think what you really want is:
> 
> try:
> 	# this will fail and be caught
> 	# below, weeee
> 	import foobar
> 
> except ImportError, error:
> 	class foobarclass:
> 		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
> 			return None
>     foobar = foobarclass()
> 
> print foobar.bg
>
> foobar in your version is a class.  By making it an instance, the __getattr__ method is properly called.
> 
> 
> -Chris

:)

Well, that's what I am using. :) What I'm wondering is if the other
method could work, of if it simply impossible in Python considering it's
underlying implementation.

> On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 02:02:29PM -0400, Jeremy Moles wrote:
> > Jumping right into the code (which should speak for itself):
> > 
> > # -----------------------------------
> > 
> > try:
> > 	# this will fail and be caught
> > 	# below, weeee
> > 	import foobar
> > 
> > except ImportError, error:
> > 	class foobar:
> > 		@staticmethod
> > 		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
> > 			return None
> > 
> > print foobar.bg
> > 
> > # -----------------------------------
> > 
> > This doesn't work and I'm just curious as to why? I can, of course, make
> > __getattr__ non-static, instantiate a foolbar object, and everything
> > works; but, the "idea" above seems cleaner and whatnot. :)
> > 
> > Am I misunderstanding something fundamental about the builtin __*
> > functions? Can they not be "static?"
> > 
> > No rush on this, just curious. I'm using the following in a more general
> > way, and it works fine for now... :)
> > 
> > # -----------------------------------
> > 
> > try:
> > 	import foobar
> > 
> > except ImportError, error:
> > 	class Foobar:
> > 		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
> > 			return None
> > 
> > 	foobar = Foobar()
> > 
> > print foobar.bg
> > 
> > # -----------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 16:57:14 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:57:14 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "=?iso-8859-1?q?British=09accent?="...
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <200510071557.14378.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 07 October 2005 06:24 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> > "Some village in Texas is missing their idiot".
> > 

> > I personally found it odd (and essentially 
> > non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should 
> > be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So
> > 
> > "Some village in Texas are missing their idiot"
> > 
> > "Some village in Texas is missing its idiot".
> 
> Yes, that's the puppy.
> 
> I think where the people are getting confused is that it is (arguably)
> acceptable to use "their" in place of "his or her", as in:

In a Texas dialect, "their" is construed to mean "singular third person
of indeterminate gender". It's considered rude to use "it" to apply to
a sentient, and "his or her" is "PC" (and therefore a great sin ;-) ).

What's going on up above, is that "village" is being construed as
singular, but also sentient, since it's a group of people.

This is a simplification, since the actual grammar fluctuates -- I think
this is in the process of happening as the language evolves.  Self-conscious
Texans simply try to avoid using constructs with an indeterminate third
person singular, substituting plurals wherever possible.  So it's not
very consistent -- and quite a few of us attempt to assimilate our
speech to what we think is "Standard American English".

But you *will* occasionally hear pronouns here which do not occur in
"proper" English, such as "theirself" -- which shows what's going on
in the speaker's mind.  They know the subject is singular, it's just
that you didn't realize that "their" could *be* singular. :-)

You also see there, the tendency to normalize reflexive pronouns to
the possessive + self form:

myself               ourselves

yourself             y'all's selves

hisself              theirselves
herself
theirself

itself

Whereas so-called "proper" English is inconsistent (read "broken"):

myself               ourselves

yourself             yourselves

himself              themselves
herself
his or her self

itself

The same thing happened to "you", of course, ages ago, which is why
we almost never use the ONE TRUE singular 2nd person, which is "thou".
In fact, hardly anyone remembers the correct thou conjugations of verbs
anymore.  Or even that it *is* singular.  I read an really annoying
book once which kept trying to say things like "thou are" -- if
you're going to use "thou", at least conjugate correctly!
It's "thou art".

Of course, just to keep y'all on your toes, we Texans have not only
construed "their" to singular, but also "you", and added a new
plural "y'all".   As in "Why can't y'all get y'all's selves together
and understand that how a person talks is their own business."

"Innit?"

Cheers,
Terry


--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct 21 16:48:45 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:48:45 -0500
Subject: Abstract Methods & Abstract Class
In-Reply-To: <000a01c5d550$d49d0f50$e92d200a@ppp5>
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D91@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
	<20051020065644.GA10206@heaven.kostyrka.org>
	<000a01c5d550$d49d0f50$e92d200a@ppp5>
Message-ID: <200510211548.45522.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Thursday 20 October 2005 03:32 am, Gerald Klix wrote:
> class AbstractBase:
>     def method(self):
>         raise NotImplementedError( "abstract method 
called" )

You should also consider using an "interface" instead
of an abstract class -- they can serve much the same
purpose.

(Search for PyProtocols or Zope to follow up on that).

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 31 09:04:15 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 01:04:15 +1100
Subject: mixin helper class for unknown attribute access?
References: <Mvm9f.25313$m%6.18781@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.31.12.40.23.812468@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ono9f.25939$m%6.21522@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<1130764331.541218.285450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.31.14.04.15.212739@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 05:12:11 -0800, Sam Pointon wrote:

> One alrady exists, __slots__.
> 
>>>> class Foo(object):
> 	__slots__ = ['bar', 'baz', 'qig']
> 
> 
>>>> f = Foo()
>>>> f.foo = 'bar'
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     f.foo = 'bar'
> AttributeError: 'Foo' object has no attribute 'foo'
>>>> f.bar = 'foo'


__slots__ are NOT intended to be used to limit Python's dynamic nature.
Whether you call this usage a misuse or a serendipitous side-effect is a
matter of opinion.


> However, __slots__ only works for class instances, so if you're messing
> around with uninitialised classes (not a good idea outside the
> singleton pattern or very functional-style code) it won't work.


__slots__ only work with new-style classes, not classic classes.

Before using __slots__, read this:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/slots.html

Then read this recipe:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/252158


-- 
Steven.



From http  Sun Oct  2 23:28:46 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 20:28:46 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y85hp5y7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xfyrozxf0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86psqsq0jd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xhdc4vk23.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll1gpj7j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7x4q7zi8i9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> >> Compile-time restrictions don't matter for squat - you need
> >> serious restrictions on what the program can do at runtime.
> >
> > You need both.
> 
> Yup. Any language besides Java even *try* to provide both for a
> production environment? 

Yes.  Python tried.  It had a module called rexec for that purpose.
I keep mentioning that, and you keep ignoring it.  Rexec was around
for a long time, and was removed for technical reasons with some
reluctance.  There is nothing un-Pythonic about the idea.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 21:45:06 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 11:45:06 +1000
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<43464262.3040406@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.1713.1128706202.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.01.45.05.534879@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:24:28 +0100, Robin Becker wrote:

> Eric Nieuwland wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ever cared to check what committees can do to a language ;-)
>> 
> ....
> well there goes democracy :(


For fans of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, there is:


Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of 'democracy' with Carrot, and
had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he
found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the
rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes
could see the flaw there straight away.
-- The Fifth Elephant



-- 
Steven.



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Sun Oct 16 01:28:43 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:28:43 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>     I guess I wasn't explicit enough. Most people who want cars also want an 
> engine. Some don't. Dealers could sell cars and engines separately. They 
> just (generally) don't. There is nothing illegal or immoral about this.

There would be if an engine manufacturer refused to provide car
manufacturers with ANY engines for any model, unless all buyers were
charged for THEIR engine in every model, whether their engine was in
there or not.

You want to cease this line of apologism.

Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 08:20:01 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:20:01 +0100
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0gd9$osp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Python_it wrote:
> I know how to insert values in a database.
> That's not my problem!
> My problem is how i insert NULL values in de mysql-database.

So you *don't* know how to insert values in a database: as Laszlo wrote, 
you might be best using parameterized queries.

> None is een object in Python and NULL not.
> None is not converted to NULL?
> Table shows None and not NULL!
> 
If that's the case then perhaps the field isn't nullable? Or perhaps you 
mader a mistake ...

Pay careful attention to the difference between

   curs.execute(sql, data)

and

   curs.execute(sql % data)

Let's suppose I create a MySQL table:

mysql> create table t1(
     ->   f1 varchar(10) primary key,
     ->   f2 varchar(20)
     -> );
Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.44 sec)

Let's try and create a few records in Python:

 >>> conn = db.connect("localhost", db="temp", user="root")
 >>> curs = conn.cursor()

There's the obvious way:

 >>> curs.execute("INSERT INTO t1 (f1, f2) VALUES ('row1', NULL)")
1L

Then there's the parameterised way:

 >>> curs.execute("INSERT INTO t1 (f1, f2) VALUES (%s, %s)", ("row2", None))
1L

This is to be preferred because the data tuple can contain general 
expressions, so you just have to ensure that the name bound to the 
column value contains None rather than some string.

Then there's the wrong way"

 >>> curs.execute("INSERT INTO t1 (f1, f2) VALUES ('%s', '%s')" % 
("row3", None))
1L
 >>>

This really executes

INSERT INTO t1 (f1, f2) VALUES ('row3', 'None')

What does MySQL have to say about all this?

mysql> select * from t1;
+------+------+
| f1   | f2   |
+------+------+
| row1 | NULL |
| row2 | NULL |
| row3 | None |
+------+------+
3 rows in set (0.00 sec)

And the moral of the story is to believe someone is actually trying to 
help you unless you have definite evidence to the contrary. Otherwise 
people will pretty soon stop trying to help you ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid  Wed Oct 19 03:10:55 2005
From: i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid (Alan Connor)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:10:55 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de>
Message-ID: <slrndlbr29.146.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>

On comp.os.linux.misc, in <l9p923-eqi.ln1 at news.heiming.de>, "Michael Heiming" wrote:
<body not downloaded>

This is your 7th post on this thread, Michael.

You spend a lot of time griping about trolls. Maybe you should
consider not feeding them, you stupid hypocrite.

To all the shit-for-brains trolls that are polluting these groups
with this crap, which I haven't even bothered to read:

I've killfiled every one of your aliases here, and I'm sure that
they aren't the first of your aliases I've killfiled and that
they won't be the last.

I don't hate M$, I LOVE Linux.

As for what YOU punks think about it, I couldn't care less.

Aren't your Mommys coming home soon? You know what will happen
if she finds you playing with her computer again.....

AC


-- 
Homepage: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanconnor/
Fanclub: http://www.pearlgates.net/nanae/kooks/alanconnor.shtml


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 14:29:09 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:29:09 +0000
Subject: Asyncore Loop Question
In-Reply-To: <f7d768310510310906p682b068du189090711fdc623b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7d768310510310906p682b068du189090711fdc623b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dk5ra6$v6s$2@sea.gmane.org>

John W wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a gui application where I am trying to use the asyncore module to
> gather data from other computers. I am able to connect, but I am getting
> constant handle_write_event method calls into my application. It is
> obviously slowing down the gui processing significantly.
> 
> My understanding is that the handle_write_event and handle_read_event are
> both edge notifications and I should just get the method call essentially
> just once.
> 
> I think the problem is how I have my loop() call configured. All I am trying
> to do with the code below is to open the socket (that works) and then
> receive a single handle_write_event method call. Instead, I am getting
> constantly barraged with them.
> 
> I have tried several different types of the loop() call (using poll,
> timeout...) but with no luck. If anyone can explain what I should be doing
> to get a single handle_write_event call until I actually write something to
> the socket (which my code is not presently doing yet), I would appreciate
> 
> Below is some code showing what I am doing:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> class Connection(asyncore.dispatcher):
> def __init__ (self, server_name, port_num ):
> self.message_queue = []
> 
> asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
> self.create_socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM )
> self.connect(( server_name, port_num ))
> 
> 
> def handle_read_event( self ):
> print "handle_read_event received"
> 
> 
> def handle_write_event( self ):
> print "Asking for a write"
> 
> if len( self.message_queue ) > 0:
> # Pop the first message off the queue
> self.send_next_message()
> 
> 
> class TestApp:
> def __init__( self, server_name, port_number ):
> 
> self.nomad = Connection( server_name, port_number )
> asyncore.loop()
> 
> 
> Output ends up being a constant stream of:
> Asking for a write
> Asking for a write
> Asking for a write
> Asking for a write
> Asking for a write
> ....
> ...
> ...
> 
> 
Normally if a socket channel asks for a write and you have no data you 
should respond by removing it from the list of write-enabled channels 
for the asyncore loop until you *do* have some data for it. Otherwise 
every time the loop scans the channels expecting notification it will 
tell you again that you can write to that channel.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From trepca at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 14:24:35 2005
From: trepca at gmail.com (Sebastjan Trepca)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:24:35 +0200
Subject: Localized strftime()
Message-ID: <cd329af80510231124g14e8e35ey@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

I'm trying to get a localized date format from strftime() but it seems
that is doesn't have any parameters for that or any information about
this issue in Python docs.

For example I want to turn this:
19 Oct, 2005
to this(slovene language):
19 Okt, 2005

Thanks for help, Sebastjan


From byj at net.pku.edu.cn  Sat Oct 29 09:20:22 2005
From: byj at net.pku.edu.cn (BaoYongjun)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:20:22 +0800
Subject: [help]problem with python thread
Message-ID: <200510291324.j9TDOfrI021752@net.pku.edu.cn>

Hi,all:
	Could someone explan the python thread to me?
	When I  use the python thread,I find some problems.If I run many
(such as 100) python threads ,then all thread are blocked.Below is the code:
	import thread,time
	def f():
       		print 'f()'
      		 
     	 def loop():
      		  while True:
             			   f()

	for i in xrange(100):
                t=threading.Thread(target=loop)
      	  t.start()

	time.sleep(100000000)
	
	I run this program on red hat linux.The  intersting thing is that
the program sometimes works,but somtimes blocks(no output at all). 



From edhotchkiss at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 17:56:01 2005
From: edhotchkiss at gmail.com (Ed Hotchkiss)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:56:01 -0400
Subject: testing for modules?
Message-ID: <d1bf1fa20510241456r34f47c3eoe71271482babcb49@mail.gmail.com>

i have a generic script that is using several modules on windows and linux
boxes. i need to have the scripts test if a module is installed, and then if
not - then to install the module. can anyone give me a headsup on how to
test for a module, returning something to indicate whether or not it is
installed, then after that executing file to install the module.? just
somewhere to start would be helpful! thanks in advance.

--
edward hotchkiss
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From dwahler at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 13:47:57 2005
From: dwahler at gmail.com (David  Wahler)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 10:47:57 -0700
Subject: Binding a variable?
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129916877.552359.243780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Paul Dale wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that
>
> temp = 5
>
> list = [ temp ]
>
> temp == 6
>
> list
>
> would show
>
> list = [ 6 ]
>
> Thanks in advance?
>
> Paul

Python doesn't have "variables" -- a statement like "temp = 5" just
binds the name "temp" to an int object with value 5. When you say "list
= [temp]", that's putting the int object into the list; the name "temp"
is just a label for it, not a variable or container of any kind. Since
int objects are immutable, you can only change the value by assigning a
new object in its place.

That said, you can accomplish something like this by creating a new
class:

-----------------------------------
class MyInt:
    pass

>>> temp = MyInt()
>>> temp.i = 5
>>> list = [temp]
>>> temp.i = 6
>>> print list[0].i
6
-----------------------------------

Once your object is mutable, any changes to it will be reflected
anywhere there is a reference to it.

-- David



From http  Wed Oct  5 05:36:00 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 02:36:00 -0700
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1501.1128503368.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xslvg2tmn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> I can't help wondering, though, under what conditions it actually
> makes sense to compare two dictionaries for anything other than
> equality.

You might want to sort a bunch of dictionaries to bring the equal ones
together.


From darragh.sherwin at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 17:11:46 2005
From: darragh.sherwin at gmail.com (Darragh Sherwin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:11:46 +0100
Subject: Irish Python Meetup (Dublin)
Message-ID: <8abf17020510181411u27481215p831c4c6d81d589a8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

The Irish Python Meetup will take place this Thursday, in Dublin at the
SchoolHouse Hotel + Bar at 7.30pm

Location is marked on the map at
http://www.dublin-hotels.net/hotel-images/schoolhouse-hotel-map.jpg

For more details see http://python.meetup.com/13/events/4766301/

Regards,
Darragh Sherwin
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 10:58:00 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:58:00 +0200
Subject: regarding python and c++ interaction
References: <f40e94ea0510050638g280d6515tec52b66bf7a660fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <di0plj$r0f$1@sea.gmane.org>

"parul garg" wrote:

> i am new to python.i hav to call function of c++ .so file(shared
> library)on linux.
> any how i am not able to do that.
> i had made one zoo.so file.when i import it this gives the following error...
>
>>>> import zoo
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: ./zoo.so: undefined symbol: _Znwj

no matter what that so contains, it's not properly linked

$ echo _Znwj | c++filt
operator new(unsigned int)

</F> 





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 30 19:23:41 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 00:23:41 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>	<djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>	<4363b997.1286415918@news.oz.net>
	<dk0fd5$i1o$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2704.1130617005.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <436541ce.1390422241@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:10:11 +0100, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>Peter Otten wrote:
>> Bengt Richter wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>What struck me was
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> gen = byblocks(StringIO.StringIO('no'),1024,len('end?')-1)
>>>>>> [gen.next() for i in xrange(10)]
>>>
>>>['no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no']
>> 
>> 
>> Ouch. Seems like I spotted the subtle cornercase error and missed the big
>> one.
>> 
>
>No, you just realised subconsciously that we'd all spot the obvious one 
>and decided to point out the bug that would remain after the obvious one 
>had been fixed.
>
I still smelled a bug in the counting of substring in the overlap region,
and you motivated me to find it (obvious in hindsight, but aren't most ;-)

A substring can get over-counted if the "overlap" region joins infelicitously with the next
input. E.g., try counting 'xx' in 10*'xx' with a read chunk of 4 instead of 1024*1024:

Assuming corrections so far posted as I understand them:

 >>> def byblocks(f, blocksize, overlap):
 ...     block = f.read(blocksize)
 ...     yield block
 ...     if overlap>0:
 ...         while True:
 ...             next = f.read(blocksize-overlap)
 ...             if not next: break
 ...             block = block[-overlap:] + next
 ...             yield block
 ...     else:
 ...         while True:
 ...             next = f.read(blocksize)
 ...             if not next: break
 ...             yield next
 ...
 >>> def countsubst(f, subst, blksize=1024*1024):
 ...     count = 0
 ...     for block in byblocks(f, blksize, len(subst)-1):
 ...         count += block.count(subst)
 ...     f.close()
 ...     return count
 ...

 >>> from StringIO import StringIO as S
 >>> countsubst(S('xx'*10), 'xx',  4)
 13
 >>> ('xx'*10).count('xx')
 10
 >>> list(byblocks(S('xx'*10), 4, len('xx')-1))
 ['xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xxxx', 'xx']

Of course, a large read chunk will make the problem either
go away

 >>> countsubst(S('xx'*10), 'xx',  1024)
 10

or might make it low probability depending on the data.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mhamilt at sandia.gov  Tue Oct 18 15:29:28 2005
From: mhamilt at sandia.gov (Mark E. Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:29:28 -0600
Subject: Python script produces "sem_trywait: Permission denied"
Message-ID: <43554D18.3070808@sandia.gov>

Sorry, I probably should have re-stated the problem:

We're using Python 2.3.5 on AIX 5.2, and get the follow error messages 
from some of our code. I haven't yet tracked down exactly where it's 
coming from:

sem_trywait: Permission denied
sem_wait: Permission denied
sem_post: Permission denied

We don't run these scripts as root, so I can't say whether they work as 
root. I suspect they would, though, since root has permissions to do 
anything.

-- 
----------------
Mark E. Hamilton
Orion International Technologies, Inc.
Sandia National Laboratory, NM.
505-844-7666



From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 16:20:40 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 13:20:40 -0700
Subject: Convert hex to string
Message-ID: <1128370840.468590.27030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I have some output stored in a string that looks like..

>> x
'\x01\xee\x1eo\xc3+\x8b\x83\xfad\xf6E\xaa\x0ea/I\x96\x83\xf5G\xa3\rQ\xfcH\xee\r'


According to, http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html, this is
"Unsigned Hexidecimal (lowercase)".  How can I get this into normal
Ascii so that I can read it?

thanks.



From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 24 08:27:13 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:27:13 -0400
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

jas wrote:
> Any other ideas? or examples of using subprocess to do what I was
> asking?

Actually I thought I was giving an example of what you were asking:
- on windows
- send a series of commands to a command process
- capture the result to a variable

The example I referenced sends a series of HELP commands to cmd.exe, captures the output of the commands and saves it to a file.

What did I miss?

Kent

> 
> 
> Kent Johnson wrote:
> 
>>jas wrote:
>>
>>>I would like to redirect the output from os.system to a variable, but
>>>am having trouble.  I tried using os.popen(..).read() ...but that
>>>doesn't give me exactly what i want.
>>
>>Here is an example using subprocess:
>>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/9fa3a3c287e8e2a3?hl=en&
>>
>>Kent
>>
>>
>>>..this is windows by the way.
>>>
>>>For example:
>>>tmp = os.popen("hostname").read()
>>>
>>>...works as expected.
>>>
>>>however,
>>>
>>>tmp = os.popen("cmd").read()
>>>...i would like to have access to the cmd process...i.e. enter commands
>>>like a normal command line. os.system() allows this, but i dont want
>>>output to the screen..i wanna store it to a variable.  then send
>>>content of variable elsewhere,  receive more input and submit it.
>>>almost emulate the windows command prompt.
>>>
>>>any ideas?
>>>
> 
> 


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 11:06:27 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 08:06:27 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
Message-ID: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I have a program that serves client programs. The server has a login
password, which has to be used by each client for logging in. So, when
the client connects, it sends a string with a password, which is then
validated on the server side. The problem is obvious: anyone can get
the password just sniffing the network.

How can I solve this?

Daniel



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 17 12:22:37 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:22:37 +0100
Subject: Installing Python at Work
In-Reply-To: <1129564845.113321.92140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2168.1129562547.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129564845.113321.92140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4353CFCD.5040601@holdenweb.com>

Nikola wrote:
> Many thanks. I know it sounds like a silly question, but it's the
> company's laptop etc.  
> 
> Does Python allow conflicting statements? :)
> 
Actually it sounds like a meaningless question, but that's only because 
I'm not a mind-reader. ;-) I'm sure *you* know what you mean, it's just 
a matter of finding out how to help *us* understand.

What sort of conflicts are you concerned about?

Basically Python isn't going to do anything horrible unless you ask it 
to, or start running programs you don't understand (which is rarely a 
good idea anyway).

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  1 14:09:12 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:09:12 +0200
Subject: Question about stdin and PATHEXT on Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <ZcWdnWEnK-sjvd3e4p2dnA@telenor.com>
References: <ZcWdnWEnK-sjvd3e4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <ArSdnVa3jrHDv93eRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> I got a loop like this:
<snip>

Ok, I've found some information. I don't like the answer but it doesn't 
seem to be any good way to do this without hacking it one way or the other.

If someone has a brilliant answer that isn't in google yet, please let 
me know.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From enas_khalil at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 06:01:33 2005
From: enas_khalil at yahoo.com (enas khalil)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: another error in tagging program
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5168.1129107641.508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20051012100134.2963.qmail@web30512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hello all
i have run  the following code :

# the taggerI interface
from nltk.tagger import *
from nltk.tokenizer import WhitespaceTokenizer
from nltk.tokenizer import *
from nltk.token import *

# Using UnigramTagger
##Before aUnigramTagger can be used to tag data ,it must be trained on training corpus,
# it uses this corpus to determine which tags are most common for each word . UnigramTaggers
# are trained using the train method which takes a tagged corpus:
# tag2.txt is a tagged trainning corpus
tagged_txt_str=open('tag2.txt').read()
tagged_txt_token=Token(TEXT=tagged_txt_str)
WhitespaceTokenizer().tokenize(tagged_txt_token)
#TaggedTokenizer().tokenize(tagged_txt_token)
#Tagger().tokenize(tagged_txt_token)
tagger=UnigramTagger()
tagger.train(tagged_txt_token) 
 
and got the following error :
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "F:\MSC first Chapters\error correct.py", line 19, in -toplevel-
    tagger.train(tagged_txt_token)
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\nltk\tagger\__init__.py", line 332, in train
    tag = subtok[TAG]
KeyError: 'TAG'
>>> 
please help 
thanks 
enas

		
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From pkarjala at paju.oulu.fi  Sat Oct  1 07:56:05 2005
From: pkarjala at paju.oulu.fi (Pekka Karjalainen)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 11:56:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Not defined
References: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <slrndjsual.e9g.pkarjala@paju.oulu.fi>

In article <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547 at news.xtra.co.nz>, Rob wrote:
>Forgive me please if this is not the proper place for this ?  I am trying to 
>keep an active brain :)

Seems proper to me :)

You can see what you've just imported by using the built-in
dir() function. Here's an example from my PyWin window:

>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'pywin']
>>> from math import *
>>> dir ()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'acos', 'asin', 'atan', 'atan2',
'ceil', 'cos', 'cosh', 'degrees', 'e', 'exp', 'fabs', 'floor', 'fmod',
'frexp', 'hypot', 'ldexp', 'log', 'log10', 'modf', 'pi', 'pow', 'pywin',
'radians', 'sin', 'sinh', 'sqrt', 'tan', 'tanh']
>>> 

Note that the first time I use dir() it lists just four items. After from
math import * it lists all the stuff I got from the math module in
addition.

How does your dir() look after the import statement?

-- 
Pekka Henrik Karjalainen



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Oct 21 03:03:31 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:03:31 -0700
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <XbydnRySP_peD8XenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@speakeasy.net>

Christian wrote:

> Can I write a .py script that calls a .sh script that executes the 
> export command and then calls another .py script (and how would the 
> first .py script look)?

No, the shell script that the Python program would invoke would be a 
different process and so commands executed in it would have no effect on 
the state of another.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Success and failure are equally disastrous.
   -- Tennessee Williams


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 22:06:34 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:06:34 -0400
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
References: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1128906992.565860.327040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86hdbqjfbp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Clint Norton" <Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com> writes:

> Well,
>     I though about it but I'm looking for something a little more
> interesting then bug fixing...

Bug fixing is an easy way to start learning the code and providing an
immediate contribution to the project. As for interesting - you gotta
pick the right buggs :-).

> Anyway, wouldn't it be to difficult to get into a huge project like
> python itself? Wouldn't it be a better idea to walk into a project that
> only have a few developers in it?

Depends on what you mean by "get into". Learning your way around part
of the project is going to be the same no matter how big the project
is, though the parts may be smaller. Becoming a contributor is going
to be about the same no matter how big the project is - most project
will accept patches from pretty much anyone. Becoming a key figure in
the project - yeah, that's harder for larger projects. I can't really
help with that.

>     I was thinking of the mozilla calender project (which is usfull and
> i think is the smallest mozilla project) but I'm not really into c++.
> Maybe I should take a look at some of the modules I've used and see if
> I can help there.

How does that relate to comp.lang.python (as if I'm one to complain
about off-topic posts here...)?

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From johnww at worldpath.net  Sun Oct 16 00:10:56 2005
From: johnww at worldpath.net (John Wingate)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:10:56 -0000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
	<8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com>

Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> wrote:
>> Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>>>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
>>>> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
>>>> mainframe terminals.
>>> 
>>> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
>>> at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
>>> running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.
> 
>> Peter, if you are serious, and not just pulling our legs, your memory is
>> failing. 
> 
> Well, it might be a bit off. I am talking about 1986.
> 
>> MS-DOS 1.0 came out in August 1981; SunOS 3.0 in February 1986.
> 
> Seems about right. 
> 
> So what version of msdos was around at that time? Obviously I didn't
> use it!

In 1986?  That would be version 3.  I have MS-DOS 3.10 (Victor/Sirius
version corresponding to 3.1 for x86) dated 1986.

>> Sun Microsystems was incorporated (with four employees) in February 1982.
>> There never was a SunOS 3.8.  (SunOS 3.5 was succeeded by 4.0.)  And I'm

> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?

Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.

-- 
John Wingate                        Mathematics is the art which teaches
johnww at worldpath.net                one how not to make calculations.
                                                         --Oscar Chisini


From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 04:27:18 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 01:27:18 -0700
Subject: Question on class member in python
Message-ID: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Class A:
   def __init__(self):
      self.member = 1

   def getMember(self):
      return self.member

a = A()

So, is there any difference between a.member and a.getMember? thanks
for your help. :)

Regards, 
Johnny



From johnww at worldpath.net  Tue Oct 25 12:54:13 2005
From: johnww at worldpath.net (John Wingate)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:54:13 -0000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <11lsopl4qpg9gc2@corp.supernews.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote:
> That would be a good guess, except that Microsoft's predatory and illegal
> behaviour began long before OS/2 was even planned. It began in the mid
> 1970s, with MS DOS.

Nitpick: MS-DOS first appeared in 1981.

-- 
John Wingate                        Mathematics is the art which teaches
johnww at worldpath.net                one how not to make calculations.
                                                         --Oscar Chisini


From dont at spam.me  Wed Oct  5 10:48:30 2005
From: dont at spam.me (Bugs)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:48:30 -0700
Subject: py2exe has a new maintainer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1477.1128470487.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1477.1128470487.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s5OdnSriyN4iet7eRVn-uQ@comcast.com>

This is great Jimmy and thanks.  Py2exe is too handy of a project to let 
fall into obsolescence.  I especially appreciate your willingness to 
work with other projects in developing synergies between them.
Thanks again.

Jimmy Retzlaff wrote:
> I am taking over the maintenance and support of py2exe from Thomas
> Heller. 
[snip]
> After I feel comfortable with things, I hope to work with other projects
> in the Python packaging community (e.g., cx_Freeze,
> PyInstaller/McMillan, py2app, setuptools, etc.) to see if we can't find
> synergies that will make all of them better. 
[snip]


From renting at astron.nl  Mon Oct 17 05:04:49 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:04:49 +0200
Subject: OT: OS monopolies, was MS FAQ
Message-ID: <s3538570.032@server7.nfra.nl>

>>>John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> 10/17/05 5:27 am >>> 
#Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote: 
# 
#> 
#>Maybe they can force it, maybe not, but that's not the point (again). 
#>The point is what their intentions are, and that is trying to lock 
#>people into using their software. 
# 
#Can you name big companies that don't do this? 
# 

I know that some companies, for example Adobe with PDF and postscript, have been much nicer in having other software interoperate/compete with them. I think it's why MS is currently targetting them (Metro, Digital Image).

Don't be to surprised if Acrobat, Illustrator or Photoshop has trouble running on Vista.

I do agree that most companies would probably try some of the same tactics, but that's why it's illegal to abuse monopoly power. Some of MS faults are inherent to how the software market works, for example that it's pace is much higher as what the justice system can keep up with.


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct  7 07:34:13 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:34:13 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <bvmck1hab4go0atva6q9csnr3dp6eg7qdq@4ax.com>


[Steve]
> and yes, I split that infinitive just to 
> annoy any pedants who may be reading

[Steven]
> *Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the
> grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are
> impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid
> them in English.

Your previous post to this thread was chock-full of split nominatives: "The
Hollywood voice", "the specific regional accent", "the English-speaking
world", "the original French".  And you call yourself a grammarian.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 04:56:45 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:56:45 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4348e72f$0$11133$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1h47pyn.hilcyilngm8fN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

al <al at none.fr> wrote:

> And it solve a problem that in all object oriented langages, a method
> that process 2 or more different classes of objets belongs just to one
> of those classes.

Your use of the word "all" in the phrase "all object oriented languages"
is erroneous.  There ARE several object-oriented languages which solve
this issue neatly and elegantly by using "multi-methods".  The most
easily accessible of those is probably still Dylan; see
<http://www.double.co.nz/dylan/> for more

I don't believe that Python will ever have multi-methods (any more than
I expect to see them in Java, C++ or C#), but that's no reason to forget
them:-).


Alex


From lycka at carmen.se  Fri Oct  7 03:48:45 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:48:45 +0200
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di598u$2nh$1@wake.carmen.se>

Cigar wrote:
> What I want:
> - the simplest thing that could possibly work!

A splash screen that informs the user that it's
confidential data, and that unauthorized use will
lead to prosecution?

Besides, I think it's not the program you need to
protect, but the data. Think about that. Who cares
about a hardware dongle if they can access the
information you're trying to protect in notepad or
via ODBC and MS query etc.

She's as vulnerable if someone prints out a listing
of the clients and takes that, as if someone copies
the program. If you have the ability to generate
lists of data, you might not want that feature to be
accessible to "normal" users.

Finally, there's another nice trick that you can
do, now that most computers are hooked up on the
net. Make the program report when it's being used.
The easiest way might be to make it send an email,
but I'm not quite sure how you set it up to do that
on a windows box without asking the data-thief about
email settings. Virus-programs obviously do this,
so it can't be too hard. (Actually, to do something
in your program that will alert anti-virus programs
might be a good protection!)

You could also make the program "phone home" via
a socket etc, but that requires a server that can be
reached on the net.

But as others have said, you should make this a
client-server app, and make sure the server is
physically protected, difficult to break into
(a DOS box or an old MAC?) and only serve the right
kind of data to an authenticated user connected
locally.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Oct  3 16:11:33 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:11:33 +0200
Subject: Unicode charmap decoders slow
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-BBA4DA.12405103102005@news.verizon.net>
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-69AACB.23331402102005@news.verizon.net>
	<43410f1b$0$7019$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<*firstname*nlsnews-BBA4DA.12405103102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <43419076$0$25143$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Tony Nelson wrote:
> I had seen iconv.  Even if my system supports it and it is faster than 
> Python's charmap decoder, it might not be available on other systems.  
> Requiring something unusual in order to do a trivial LUT task isn't an 
> acceptable solution.  If I write a charmap decoder as an extension 
> module in Pyrex I can include it with the program.  I would prefer a 
> solution that doesn't even need that, preferably in pure Python.  Since 
> Python does all the hard wark so fast it certainly could do it, and it 
> can almost do it with "".translate().

Well, did you try a pure-Python version yourself?

table = [chr(i).decode("mac-roman","replace") for i in range(256)]

def decode_mac_roman(s):
     result = [table[ord(c)] for c in s]
     return u"".join(result)

How much faster than the standard codec is that?

Regards,
Martin


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 18:49:32 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:49:32 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<llrik1ph4mpkud83t9qpnjks533vpkv24e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.22.49.29.840592@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:28:31 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:54:32 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :
> 
>>Only if your photos are so obscure and confusing that they need captions.
> 
> That is a hair shirt approach.  What if someone is sending photos of
> their new house? 

Oh gosh, pictures of a new house. Why didn't you say so??? If you're
sending pictures named "my_new_house1.jpg" etc then OF COURSE they have
to be imbedded in a HTML email, otherwise how could anyone know what they
were?


> What if I am sending diagrams to help someone repair
> their computer? It is ridiculous to tie people's arms behind their
> backs.  What you do instead is work to prevent abuse.  Captions in and
> of themselves are not dangerous things.

I didn't say they were. Obviously you haven't been reading my emails,
just reacting against them mindlessly. I use a mail client that gives
me the choice of displaying or not displaying HTML emails. If there is no
alternative to HTML, then I may _choose_ to render the HTML.

But there is always an alternative. You can always send me a Word
document, a PDF, an Powerpoint presentation showing the steps one per
page, why the possibilities are endless.

You could even send me a URL to a webpage.


-- 
Steven.



From chris at kateandchris.net  Tue Oct 18 16:20:05 2005
From: chris at kateandchris.net (Chris Lambacher)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:20:05 -0400
Subject: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
In-Reply-To: <1129663697.620665.99040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2224.1129656465.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129663697.620665.99040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051018202005.GA28412@kateandchris.net>

Most of this stuff can be done in Vim or Emacs.  I only know the details for
Vim, see below.  I don't know why people are insistant on claiming that Vim
and Emacs can't do these kinds of things.  They are, it just may take a bit
more work to set up.  The advantage to this extra work is that you can make it
work the way you want it to.

Both Emacs and Vim have powerful languages for defining extensions to them.
In the case of Vim you can use its own language or one of Python, Perl, Ruby,
Tcl (perhapse more?).

-Chris

On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 12:28:17PM -0700, Chris Lasher wrote:
> Thanks again for your responses, guys. To answer the question,the
> features I'd love to see in a Python IDE are:
> 
> * First and foremost, Vim editing behavior. Let me keep my fingers on
> the homerow. I'm lazy. Point and click and CTRL + SHIFT has its
> moments, but text editing is not one of them.
> 
> * Graphical symbolic debugger: the course I'm auditing, Software
> Carpentry, by Greg Wilson of University of Toronto, devoted a whole
> lecture to debuggers. See
> http://www.third-bit.com/swc/www/debugging.html . So now I want to try
> this crazy thing. I love the idea of being able to watch the values of
> variables change in "realtime" as the program runs, from the
> convenience of a little side window. I also love the concept of not
> having to insert debugging code into the production code--just a click
> in the left column and you set the debugging command. Keep the
> production code clean by putting the debugging commands outside the
> program.
There are several Debugger plugins for VIm:
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script_search_results.php?keywords=debugger&script_type=&order_by=rating&direction=descending&search=search

They may all be for GDB, but if you can do it for GDB, you can do it with VIm.
Also, since you can embed the python interpreter in VIm, you should be able to
have even tighter control on a python debugger than a GDB debugger.

> 
> * Source browser: the ability to jump back and forth between specific
> blocks of code very quickly, and to see the overall layout of the file
> in terms of classes, methods, functions, etc. I want the big picture in
> a side window to keep me on task and remind me of how far I've come
> when I start feeling bogged down in details.

There are a million and one plugins to do this, search on vim.org

> 
> * Autocompletion: PythonWin by ActiveState has nice autocompletion.
> When I import a module, it can dive down into those namespaces and
> allow autocompletion on them. That's a nice, productive feature.
> 
Default part of VIm
:help ctags
:help completion

> * Usage tips/tooltips: Also something I found in PythonWin. During the
> writing of the method, a little tip box pops up advising me what the
> inputs are for a method or an instance construction for a class. Very
> nice, very productive.
VIm 7 may support that out of the box since there were a lot of supporter
votes for it:
http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php

I think there are some plugins that will do this for you by updating the
status area.


> 
> * Linux compatibility: Nothing against Microsoft, or Apple, I just like
> to use a Linux box more.
> 
> It seems like the IDEs I've looked at have most of the features, but
> none do Vim. Crazy.
> 
> I agree that you can do all your coding using just Vim. That's how I've
> been doing it. But following along with Greg Wilson's Software
> Carpentry has made me realize that I could be more productive using the
> additional, apparently now-standard tools of a good IDE. I just don't
> want to sacrifice productivity in in keystrokes. It just seems like a
> compromise programmers shouldn't have to make.
> 
> the other Chris
> 
> Chris Lambacher wrote:
> > I would second that.  I use Vim for editing.  I find I don't need an IDE (not
> > even for C/C++).  Vim does everything I need.  If I want a debugger I will use
> > the shell debugger.  Most other things can be added to Vim, though I tend to
> > run with very few plugins.
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 05:12:30PM +0000, Ron Adam wrote:
> > > What features are you looking for.  I think most Vim users just add what
> > > they want to Vim.
> > >
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From timr at probo.com  Tue Oct  4 02:41:52 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:41:52 GMT
Subject: Recursive Property of Octal Numbers
References: <mailman.1312.1128157634.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tm84k1tooaqup1bjgb0qn57fe7m32has16@4ax.com>

James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:
>
>I'm very curious about what is going on here. I'm sure my curiosity has 
>something to do with ignorance of some fundamental concept of computer 
>science (maybe that 8 is just a vertical infinity?):
>
>py> b = '\xb6'

8 doesn't have anything to do with it.  What you have there is hexadecimal.
0377 is an example of an octal number.

However, as was pointed out elsewhere, the same thing would be true even if
you used 'z'.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 09:55:47 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:55:47 +0200
Subject: Dynamic generation of doc-strings of dynamically generated classes
References: <dj04bq$5os$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <1h4l2qe.x03vg9pqtqbcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:
   ...
> Any ideas? Am I stuck with the clumsy exec-solution, or are there other
> ways to dynamically generate doc-strings of classes?

The best way to make classes on the fly is generally to call the
metaclass with suitable parameters (just like, the best way to make
instances of any type is generally to call that type):

derived = type(base)('derived', (base,), {'__doc__': 'zipp'})


Alex


From jwkenne at attglobal.net  Tue Oct 18 13:04:56 2005
From: jwkenne at attglobal.net (John W. Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:04:56 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de>
Message-ID: <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>

Michael Heiming wrote:
> Let's not forget about the Internet, they invented together with
> Al Gore and of course the wheel!

No fair picking on Al Gore. All he ever claimed was that he was the 
Congressional point man for the "Information Superhighway", which he was.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated!
http://pws.prserv.net/jwkennedy/Double%20Falshood/index.html


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 13 13:02:19 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:02:19 -0000
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>
	<1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.11.21.33.19.546178@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<slrndksub2.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<7x4q7lmk6j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <11kt4ormimmute2@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-13, Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:
>> It depends on what you mean by expensive -- web servers can fork for each
>> HTTP request they get, in real-world scenarios, and get away with it.
>
> This is OS dependent.  Forking on Windows is much more
> expensive than forking on Linux.

Under VMS, fork/exec was so expensive that the Bourne shell
implimentation in DECShell executed "simple" commands in the
shell's process rather than do a fork/exec. Shell scripts that
used pipes or similar constructs requiring fork/exec ran _very_
slowly under DECShell.

Since the NT kernel is descended from VMS, I'm not surprised
that a fork is expensive.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Why are these
                                  at               athletic shoe salesmen
                               visi.com            following me??


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 10 18:30:22 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:30:22 -0500
Subject: Wanted: Python module allowing direct access to raw sectors of
	harddrives (MFT, boot sector, etc.) in MS Windows
In-Reply-To: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>
References: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <20051010223022.GA31497@unpythonic.net>

I took the advice from this web page:
	http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q100027/
(I don't know how this extends to floppies, and the 9x family of OSes isn't
listed in "applies to", so this may not help your case)

Here, I open "physical drive 0" and see that the magic number indicates a valid
boot record.  I believe it is the MBR.

>>> f = open('\\\\.\\PhysicalDrive0', 'rb')
>>> f.read(512)[-2:]
'U\xaa'   # that is, hex 55 AA

I don't know much about low-level filesystem or partition details--I got the
tidbit about the 55 AA magic number from 
	http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/pub/doc/suse/sles9/adminguide-sles9/ch08.html

Jeff
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From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 02:37:51 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 06:37:51 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<8b09l1tgavuiu3hmatva34624lvsjn6mtl@4ax.com>
	<dj20pk$tod$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <iv59l1d1h68mi5f2dns2lib5lvoi4vlr07@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:21:55 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    I don't think any of it bordered on force or fraud. However, their 
>obligation to their shareholders requires them to do anythign that borders 
>on force/fraud so long as it isn't force/fraud.

I avoid MS products whenever possible.  Surely others feel the same
way because we have had it up to the teeth with MS dirty tactics. That
has to be factored into profitability as well.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From pje at telecommunity.com  Sat Oct  8 13:14:25 2005
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 10:14:25 -0700
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128791665.816053.268100@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I would like to gather some information on Python's runtime
> > performance. As far as I understand, it deals with a lot of string
> > objects. Does it require a lot string processing during program
> > execution? How does it handle such time-consuming operations? Is there
> > a way to find out how many string operations (perhaps in the
> > underlying system) ) it does during program execution?
>
> Do you want to know how many internal string operations are done inside
> the Python interpreter? I believe it is not a useful information. There
> are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.
>
> For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602

Actually, that benchmark shows something rather interesting.  The C and
Java versions of the benchmark are much faster than Python on so-called
"64-bit arithmetic", but only Python computes the *correct* answer to
the benchmark!  The others overflow 64 bits at some point and lose
precision, resulting in a nonsense result that the author failed to
notice.

So, without meaning to, the benchmark author has demonstrated something
important about Python, which is that writing the obvious thing in
Python tends to work correctly, even if it sometimes takes longer to
run than it would take for another language to produce the wrong
answer.  :)



From benzwt at yahoo.com.tw  Sun Oct 30 11:45:31 2005
From: benzwt at yahoo.com.tw (benz)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 08:45:31 -0800
Subject: process and spinning slash
Message-ID: <1130690731.654048.157590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to fork and exec a child by python. Additionally, I am
attempting
to have a spinning slash while the child is running.

My code is as below:

import sys, os, time


def spin(delay):

  pattern=['-','\\','|','/','-','\\','|']

  while 1:
    for i in pattern:
      sys.stdout.write(i + " ")
      sys.stdout.flush()
      sys.stdout.write("\b\b")
      time.sleep(delay)

pid = os.fork()

if pid == 0:
  os.execvp("du",("du","-shc","/"))
else:
  spin(0.05)


However, the spinner is kept spinning even the child process was ended.
Any idea ? Thanks!



From sidanko at scientist.com  Wed Oct 26 08:51:28 2005
From: sidanko at scientist.com (sidanko at scientist.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 05:51:28 -0700
Subject: WinXP vs. Win98
Message-ID: <1130331088.292656.213430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I use Python 2.3.3 (Enthought edition) with wxPython and it is
installed on both WinXP and Win98. On Win98 machine I have the
following error:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\My Documents\Programs\Python\SDV.py", line 2, in ?
    from chaco.wxplot import *
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\chaco\wxplot.py", line 17, in ?
    from wxplot_window import PlotWindow, PlotTraitSheet
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\chaco\wxplot_window.py", line 5,
in ?
    from wxplot_window_agg import *
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\chaco\wxplot_window_agg.py", line
27, in
    from kiva.agg               import CAP_BUTT
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\kiva\agg\__init__.py", line 1, in
?
    from agg import *
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\kiva\agg\agg.py", line 734, in ?
    import freetype
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\freetype\__init__.py", line 6, in
?
    from freetype import FreeType
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\freetype\freetype.py", line 10,
in ?
    from font_lookup import default_font_info
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\freetype\font_lookup.py", line
24, in ?
    font_dirs.append(os.path.join(os.environ[ 'systemroot' ],'fonts'))
  File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\os.py", line 417, in __getitem__
    return self.data[key.upper()]
KeyError: 'SYSTEMROOT'
>>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hovewer running very the same script on WinXP machine I have no
problems at all. What's wrong? Kiva package (as well as others) is
installed properly. Where to dig?

AS



From jhu at metrigenix.com  Fri Oct 21 15:26:52 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:26:52 -0400
Subject: [python-win32] findwindow by its class name
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACC8@torexch.metrigenix.com>

Thanks a lot! Yes, GetHandle() can return 'wxWindowClassNR', which is
nice,
but all wxPython apps return wxWindowClassNR as well, so when I Post
Message, it goes to itself. 

James

-----Original Message-----
From: python-win32-bounces+jhu=metrigenix.com at python.org
[mailto:python-win32-bounces+jhu=metrigenix.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Paul Moore
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 2:28 PM
To: Steve Holden
Cc: python-list at python.org; python-win32 at python.org
Subject: Re: [python-win32] findwindow by its class name

On 10/21/05, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> > Is there any way to know this windows' class name? I need to find it
by
[...]
> I'm not saying it can'ty be done (which is a pity for you, because
> that's usually a cue for someone to contradict me) but it's expecting
> quite a lot of win32gui. A wxPython application is not a windows
handle,
> and I suspect you will find that the classname you seek isn't visible
> from inside (wx)Python.

You had to make me do it, didn't you? :-)

wxPython windows expose their HWND via the GetHandle() method. So you
can get the frame's class name as

    win32gui.GetClassName(frame.GetHandle())

FWIW, I get a constant value of "wxWindowClassNR".

Hope this helps,
Paul.
_______________________________________________
Python-win32 mailing list
Python-win32 at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Oct 18 04:32:34 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:32:34 +0200
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4354b324$0$21023$636a55ce@news.free.fr>

Robin Becker wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>> Robin Becker a ?crit :
>>
>>> Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need
>>> to create another class with the property changed?
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you mean attributes or properties ?
> 
> 
> I mean property here.

Ok, wasn't sure... And sorry, but I've now answer.

> My aim was to create an ObserverProperty class
> that would allow adding and subtracting of set/get observers. 

Could you elaborate ? Or at least give an exemple ?

> My current
> implementation works fine for properties on the class, but when I need
> to specialize an instance I find it's quite hard.



-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 08:07:04 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:07:04 +0200
Subject: generic xmerge ?
References: <1129545131.875544.122630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kurr.y4wcn71rpq7x6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129547336.228373.10140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kvit.1rahfvsg940b6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1129549389.561430.203560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4kxcy.1lstg458e8b3mN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:

> million thanks. So the default compare funcion of heapq also do it like
> sort ?

By defaults, all comparisons in Python occur by the same mechanisms: by
preference, specific comparison operators such as < , <= , and so on
(corresponding to special methods __lt__, __le__, and so on) -- missing
that, the three-way comparison done by built-in function cmp
(corresponding to speial method __cmp__).  For built-in sequences, in
particular (both tuples and lists), the comparisons are lexicographical.

Some (but not all) occasions that imply comparisons let you specify
something else than the default, for example by such mechanisms as the
cmp= optional argument to .sort (which tends to have unpleasant
performance impacts) and the key= optional argument (which tends to have
good performance impact).  heapq does not offer this feature in today's
Python (i.e., 2.4), but I believe it's planned to have it in the future
2.5 release.

But in your case the default comparisons appear to be OK, so you should
have no problem either way.


> The size of the list is not very large but has the potential of being
> run many times(web apps). So I believe second one should be faster(from
> the app perspective) as it goes into the optimized code quickly without
> all the overheads in the merge case.

Yes, the simpler solution may well perform better.  Note that:

L = list(l1)
L.extend(l2)
L.extend(l3)
L.sort()

may perform better than L = sorted(l1+l2+l3) -- if speed matters a lot,
be sure to try (and measure!) both versions.


Alex


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 18:52:52 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:52:52 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <8je6f.5358$q%.1645@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

I feel fairly stupid ... but to my defense in the past 17 years of coding,
i've only spent 3 days looking at web stuff:

I now can understand how "writing" to an existing form field from a cgi
script might not work: how would the browser know ?: unless there is a very
sophisticated scheme there (as those used in image transfer), I assume the
complete page would have to be sent back: so might as well
regenerate/rewrite everything.

Yes ?

I so, I'm back to finding a way for a browser plugin and a server based cgi
script to exchange information.

Any idea welcome... I know I don't want to open another socket/port but
stick to http:80


Regards,

Philippe







Mike Meyer wrote:

> "Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
> 
>> Mike,
>>
>> Here is what I am trying to do:
>>
>> **** WHAT ****
>> -) a client opens his/her browser and click on some button which triggers
>> my plugin
>> -) the plugin starts to communicate with a server on some URL.
>> -) the communication between the server and the client involves a few
>> exchanges: data from client to server, then from server to client,.....
>> -) just for info (I do not think it's relevant to my problem) on each
>> side (server and client) there is a smart card (that's why I need a
>> plugin) and the information exchanged comes from/go to the smart cards
>> -) The smart card on the server side eventually decides whether or not
>> the smart client on the client side is OK and tells so to the cgi script
>> which acts accordingly
>>
>> ***** HOW (if there's a better way let me know please) ******
>> As I have not found any better solution yet, I am trying to do the
>> following (on the server there is an html file and a cgi file)
>>
>> -) the plugging opens the correct url which has a form with a "click"
>> button -) the customer clicks on the button
>> -) the server "puts" some information in a hidden form field (info from
>> local smart card)
>> -) the pluggin fetches the information from the form field and gives it
>> to its local smart card
>> ....... (this a couple of time)
>> -) the cgi script gets the final verdict from the server smart card and
>> acts accordingly.
>>
>> I hope that is clearer.
> 
> Some. To continue clarifying:
> 
> The phrase "cgi script" refers to a server-side script that is run in
> response to the user clicking something on the client. That's what you
> expect it to be, right?
> 
> Do you expect the plugin to display a form? Or to ouput a form that
> the client will display?
> 
> You've got lots of stuff going on here. I count at least five programs
> and three network connections. How much is working, and which parts
> are you trying to do in Python?
> 
>     <mike



From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Oct 13 16:45:32 2005
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:45:32 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <1129235230.822890.216220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129235230.822890.216220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dkt223-tp5.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

dcrespo wrote:
> 
> Ok, I understand it. What about the MD5? Is it good enough to use when
> saving a hashed password on the database?
> 
> For example:
> user_input = raw_input("Type your password: ")
> password = md5.md5(user_input).hexdigest()
> SavePasswordInDatabase(user,password)

It would be better to use salted SHA-1.

Ciao, Michael.


From jack.sankey at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 12:02:19 2005
From: jack.sankey at gmail.com (gurkesaft)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 09:02:19 -0700
Subject: scipy.plt legend?
Message-ID: <1129046539.630460.326290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Does anyone know how to use scipy.plt?  The documentation is wrong or
out of date at the scipy website, and I can't join their mailing lists
for some reason.

Most importantly, I need to be able to make and manipulate a legend.
The scipy.plt.legend('whatever') command doesn't seem to exist.  I
can't even get started!

Thanks,
-Jack



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:51:52 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:51:52 -0400
Subject: migrate from ZODB 3.3.1 --- to where, and how?
In-Reply-To: <1130229573.350936.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130229573.350936.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510250751y64971045x71c816670a815c0@mail.gmail.com>

[Harald Armin Massa]
> I am using ZODB "standalone" in version 3.3.1 within some application.
>
> Now I learn that the 3.3.x branch of ZODB is "retired". No problem so
> far, everything is running fine.
>
> BUT... "retired" gives me the hint that nothing GREAT will be done to
> this branch anymore :)

More than that, there will never be another release of any kind in the
3.3 line.  ZODB work (I'm ZODB's primary maintainer, BTW) is driven by
Zope's needs.  When the last Zope that needs a particular ZODB is no
longer supported, the ZODB used by that Zope is also no longer
supported.  The ZODB 3.1 and 3.3 lines are dead now, corresponding
(respectively) to the Zope 2.6 line and an early experimental release
of Zope3.

> Now I am questioning myself: to which branch should I migrate? Is 3.5 a
> sure bet, or are uneven subversions a bad sign, making retirement
> likely?

Whether digits in a release number are even or odd has no meaning in
ZODB (or Zope) releases.

You should be able to move to the 3.4 or 3.5 lines without problems. 
ZODB 3.4 corresponds to the Zope 2.8 line, and ZODB 3.5 to the Zope
3.1 line.  By the end of this year, ZODB 3.6 will be released
(corresponding to Zopes 2.9 and 3.2, which will also be released by
the end of the year).  ZODB 3.7 (along with another batch of Zopes)
will be released mid-year 2006, etc.

> As much as my diggings showed me, the "special sign" of 3.3 was
> import ZODB
> from persistent import Persistent
> from persistent.list import PersistentList
> from persistent.mapping import PersistentMapping
>
> that PersistentList and PersistenMapping reside within
> persistent.<something>, while in the 3.2 branch they reside somewhere
> else in the namespace.

ZODBs at and before the 3.2 line differ in many ways from ZODBs at and
after the 3.3 line.  So far, the 3.3, 3.4, 3.5 and (not yet released)
3.6 lines are pretty much intechangeable (although, of course, later
releases add features that may not work under earlier releases, and
because the 3.3 line is dead now it doesn't even get critical bugfixes
anymore).

> I learned it the hard way that 3.3 filestores not get converted
> magically or easy to 3.2 :)

As above, many things changed starting with 3.3.

> So, my questions:
>  - where should I migrate to?

I'd jump to 3.5.1 now if I were you, and to 3.6.0 when it's released.

>  - how is migration done best (especially taking care of "old"
> filestores

Moving from 3.3.1 to 3.5.1 should "just work".

Note that ZODB has its own mailing list:

    http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev

Like most Zope lists, you have to subscribe to it in order to post to
it, but anyone can read the archives.


From jason at pengale.com  Wed Oct 19 18:23:16 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:23:16 -0500
Subject: Upper/lowercase regex matching in unicode
Message-ID: <B82F326D-FE90-45C6-9D79-413CDC666C38@pengale.com>

What's the best way to match uppercase or lowercase characters with a  
regular expression in a unicode-aware way? Obviously [A-Z] and [a-z]  
aren't going to cut it. I thought there were character classes of the  
form ::upper:: or similar syntax, but can't find them in the docs.  
Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with Perl regexen.

The upper() and lower() methods do work on accented characters in a  
unicode string, so there has to be some recognition of unicode case  
in there somewhere.

Thanks,

Jason


From gry at ll.mit.edu  Mon Oct 24 11:22:21 2005
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (gry at ll.mit.edu)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 08:22:21 -0700
Subject: testing '192.168.1.4' is in '192.168.1.0/24' ?
In-Reply-To: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130167341.149885.229410@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

There was just recently announced -- iplib-0.9:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_frm/thread/e289a42714213fb1/ec53921d1545bf69#ec53921d1545bf69

 It appears to be pure python and has facilities for dealing with
netmasks. (v4 only).

-- George



From jabel at plus.net  Wed Oct 26 11:10:36 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:10:36 +0100
Subject: xml.dom.minidom - parseString - How to avoid ExpatError?
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510260738j460b075ch998371a460c39df8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<312cfe2b0510260738j460b075ch998371a460c39df8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435F9C6C.50707@plus.net>

Try this page:

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-xml.sax.saxutils.html

I've just tried the code, taking out the &nbsp, and adding in the belo, 
as the XML is not well formed, otherwise.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-15"?>

The code then works.

HTH

J

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:

> Should I try some sort of XML group instead?  I'm still stuck on this.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> On 10/25/05, *Gregory Pi?ero* <gregpinero at gmail.com 
> <mailto:gregpinero at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi guys,
>
>     I was hoping some XML expert could help me make this code work. 
>     Below is sample code with sample XML similar to what I'm dealing with.
>
>     How can I make the weird characters in the XML not break the
>     parser?  I'll do anything to make this work!
>
>     (Note: the &nbsp; broke my parser yesterday but doesn't seem to in
>     this sample code)  But really I'm looking for solutions that will
>     handles lots
>     of unusual characters.
>
>     Much thanks,
>
>     Greg
>
>
>     <code>
>     from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
>     data="""
>     <blog>
>     <post>
>     This is sample problem text. &nbsp; ?500.00
>     </post>
>     </blog>
>     """
>     myDOM=parseString(data)
>     </code>
>
>     <error>
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File
>     "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
>     line 307, in RunScript
>         debugger.run(codeObject, __main__.__dict__, start_stepping=0)
>       File
>     "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\__init__.py",
>     line 60, in run
>         _GetCurrentDebugger().run(cmd, globals,locals, start_stepping)
>       File
>     "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
>     line 631, in run
>         exec cmd in globals, locals
>       File "C:\Documents and Settings\Gregory\My Documents\Python\xml
>     help\xmlproc.py", line 9, in ?
>         myDOM=parseString(data)
>       File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 1929, in parseString
>         return expatbuilder.parseString(string)
>       File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 940, in
>     parseString
>         return builder.parseString(string)
>       File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 223, in
>     parseString
>         parser.Parse(string, True)
>     ExpatError: undefined entity: line 4, column 29
>     </error>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Gregory Pi?ero
>     Chief Innovation Officer
>     Blended Technologies
>     (www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>) 
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Gregory Pi?ero
> Chief Innovation Officer
> Blended Technologies
> (www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>) 




From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Sun Oct 30 17:15:34 2005
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (svenn.are at bjerkem.de)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 14:15:34 -0800
Subject: Using graphviz to visualize trace.py output, anybody?
Message-ID: <1130710534.618559.40680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

has anybody thought of / already used graphviz to convert the output of
trace.py into a graph? I looked at PyUMLGraph, but 1. PyUMLGraph does
not successfully create a dot file, and 2. I don't really want a UML
representation but a compact representation of program execution.

Maybe there is some other tool that I am not aware of which can create
this kind of trace. I use eclipse with pydev plugin on MacOS 10.3.9

Regards,
Svenn



From programmer.py at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 14:23:23 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:23:23 -0500
Subject: Raw string fu
In-Reply-To: <d52c72d20510261121v2d553e5h595c5565541e83eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1130350167.20384.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<d52c72d20510261121v2d553e5h595c5565541e83eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510261123v1566cbd2qaa9e5258eb86b852@mail.gmail.com>

Doh. that example was supposed to be ->
>>> r'I can\'t end strings with a \.'
"I can\\'t end strings with a \\."

On 10/26/05, Jaime Wyant <programmer.py at gmail.com> wrote:
> This URL has a good section on raw strings.
>
> http://www.ferg.org/projects/python_gotchas.html
>
> r'\' is wrong because raw strings were originally added to make
> regular expressions easier to write.  And you can't have a regexp that
> ends with \.
>
> Also, you can use the \ to escape your original quote character.
>
> >>> r'I can\'t end strings with a \''
> "I can\\'t end strings with a \\'"
>
> hth
> jw
>
> On 10/26/05, Joshua Ginsberg <listspam at flowtheory.net> wrote:
> > >>> r'\'
> > File "<stdin>", line 1
> > r'\'
> > ^
> > SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
> > >>> r'\\'
> > '\\\\'
> >
> > Does that seem wrong to anybody else? Shouldn't the first one be
> > syntactically correct?
> >
> > -jag
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 13:50:27 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:50:27 -0400
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <200510201224.30934.tdickenson@devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dj7svt$f99$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510201224.30934.tdickenson@devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510201050l70427ddcn22c45b9eb09ef883@mail.gmail.com>

[Toby Dickenson]
> ...
> ZODB's BTrees work in a similar way but use the regular python comparison
> function, and the lack of a guarantee of a total ordering can be a liability.
> Described here in 2002, but I think same is true today:
> http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zodb-dev/2002-February/002304.html

There's a long discussion of this in the ZODB Programming Guide,
subsection "5.3.1 Total Ordering and Persistence" on this page:

    http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/node6.html

That talks about more than the referenced ZODB thread covered.

Persistence adds more twists, such as that the total ordering among
keys must remain the same across time (including across Python
releases; for example, how None compares to objects of other types has
changed across releases).


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 15:18:18 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:18:18 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h4vw8s.105b9061nag7msN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
    ...
> David claimed that everyone had a right to do whatever they wanted
> with their property. This is simply false throughout most of the
> civilized world - zoning laws control what kinds of business you can

Incidentally, the perfectly good rationale for this universal existence
of limitations to "doing whatever you want with your property" is known
in economics as *externalities*.  Transactions that appear to involve
just one or two parties, and be entirely voluntary between them, may in
fact produce all sort of beneficial or detrimental effects on further
parties who have not necessarily agreed to that.  For example, I may
"own" a certain lot of land, but if on that lot I place a siren blaring
and a huge flashing red sign, the energy of the sound waves and light
will inevitably also affect other nearby places, which I do _not_ "own"
(either they're commons, or owned by somebody else), imposing an
externality on owners and/or users of those nearby places.

Of course, while some externalities are entirely obvious (it's hard to
argue against such sirens and flashing lights being otherwise), many
others are subtler and more debatable, so one reasonable society might
acknowledge a certain class of externality and try to regulate it while
another might prefer not to do so.  But the general concept of society
as a whole placing limitations on private owners' uses of the property,
based on externalities certain uses might impose on unwilling parties,
is as solid as a rock, both practically and theoretically -- however
much anarchists or extreme libertarians might wish otherwise.


Alex


From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 26 01:05:20 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:05:20 GMT
Subject: Setting Class Attributes
In-Reply-To: <1130298306.236356.131170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<435e91b1$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1130281061.552882.134540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435edfbe.968502823@news.oz.net>
	<1130298306.236356.131170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k8E7f.213451$p_1.205177@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



the.theorist wrote:

> So that it'll be easier to remember the next time I find myself in the
> same situation on a different task, I'll extend the discussion
> somewhat.
> 
> Coming from C, I had expected that I'd get a new empty dict every time
> the __init__ function ran. Guido (or some other benevolent) had decided
> to implement things a little bit differently in Python. I understand
> that most everything is a pointer in Python. (which gives us cool stuff
> like recursive data structures) So I was wondering, they could have
> made the behavior C-like, but chose not to. The decision to bind
> everything in the function to the same default args must be a
> reflection of the Python Ideology. Philosophically, why was it done
> this way, and how does it fit in with Python's design as a language.

I didn't read too closely the thread leading up to this point so I may 
be stating something already stated or that is already obvious to you.

There is a difference between a pointer and name binding that you should 
keep in mind.  When using pointers in C you can feasibly have a chain of 
pointers.  In Python, it doesn't work that way unless you explicitly 
define a pointer type object to be used in such a way.  The normal 
behavior is for an expression to bind a name with the object that is 
bound to the other name.  So...

    a = 1   # a binds to 1
    b = a   # b binds to 1
    c = b   # c binds to 1

So if you change what 'a' is bound to, 'b' and 'c' are still each bound 
to 1.

Some of the places where you get pointer type behavior is in container 
objects.  Look at the following sequence of instructions.

    a = 1               # a binds to 1
    b = [a]             # first item in list is bound to 1,
                             b binds to list.
    c = b               # c bind to same list b is bound to.
    a = 2               # a binds to 2
    print b[0]  ->  1   # print first item in list b is bound to.
    b[0] = 3            # change first item in list b is bound to to 3
    print c[0]  ->  3   # print first item in list c is bound to,
                        #   (same list as b is bound to)

If you can follow this easily you are well on your way to understanding 
Pythons storage model and philosophy.  Notice, a name isn't bound to 
another name.

This relationship is all over Python including the name binding of 
functions and class methods.  And also in class's as well.

Keep in mind the class body is executed at the time it is defined, and 
the methods are defined but not executed until they are used.  In the 
case of the __init__ it is when the class is called after an instance 
object is created.  When instances are created they share any class 
objects that were bound to names when the class was defined.  They don't 
share any objects that get bound to instance attribute names in methods 
later.

Does this help any?

Cheers,
    Ron



> (hopefully, reasons will help me remeber why things are the way they
> are, so I don't forget in the future)
> -----------------
> I've only been using Python for a few weeks. (Chose it over Perl,
> because Python syntax is cleaner). I really like Python (over C), as it
> makes coding and debugging much faster and easier.
> 


From http  Sat Oct  8 17:09:00 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Oct 2005 14:09:00 -0700
Subject: socketServer questions
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128774994.14078.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xu0frogwj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> Off-topic here, but you've caused me to have a thought... Can hmac be
> used on untrusted clients? Clients that may fall into the wrong hands?
> How would one handle message verification when one cannot trust the
> client? What is there besides hmac? Thanks, rbt

I don't understand the question.  HMAC requires that both ends share a
secret key; does that help?  What do you mean by verification?  Do you
mean you want to make sure that's really Bob logging into your
computer, even when Bob might have intentionally given his password to
someone else?  It sounds like you want something like DRM.  What
exactly are you trying to do?


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 14:06:35 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:06:35 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xzmprueyg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86wtkujx04.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
>> > That's not what privilege separation means.  It means that the
>> > privileged objects stay secure even when the unprivileged part of the
>> > program is completely controlled by an attacker.
>> In which case, what's "private" got to do with this? The examples I've
>> seen of it don't give you privilege seperation any more than python does.
> If you have a java class instance with a private member that's (say) a
> network socket to a special port, access to the port is controlled
> entirely by that class.

Are you sure? My understanding was that Java's introspection mechanism
could be used to access private variables.

A couple of other things to think about:

Are you sure you want to use the C++ model for privilege separation?
C++'s design doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me. I'd recommend
checking languages that were designed to be OO from scratch, rather
than as extensions or rewrites of other languages. I'd also check
dynamic languages to see if any of them do this - other than PHP,
which apparently adopted the C++ model, and is another language I
wouldn't trust for inspiration.

In static languages, information of this kind is normally attached to
variables. In Python, the only thing a variable knows is the object it
references. So do you want the privilege information attached to the
variable or the object it references? If you attach it to the
variable, you're again making what appears to be a fundamental change
in Python, and possibly invoking serious implementation headaches. If
you attach it to the object, you solve a lot of the problems Pythons
reference model creates, but you also leave open the possibility of
simple assignment changing an attribute.

Finally, another hole to fix/convention to follow to make this work
properly in Python. This one is particularly pernicious, as it allows
code that doesn't reference your class at all to violate the private
variables. Anyone can dynamically add methods to an instance, the
class it belongs to, or to a superclass of that class. This means code
in one place can add a method to a superclass of your class that
clobbers your private variable, which can then be invoked on an
instance of your class to surprise you. So you may have to examine
code that doesn't reference your class at all to find the statement
that is clobbering your private variable.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sat Oct  8 11:55:09 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 08:55:09 -0700
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128786909.040667.57830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> There are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.
>
> For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602

Just the observation that there are 166 comments to that article would
suggest that the methodology employed was somewhat debatable. (I don't
need to read them all - it is OSNews, after all.)

As for the "real performance" of Python, what do we learn from these
benchmarks which "...didn't test string manipulation, graphics, object
creation and management (for object oriented languages), complex data
structures, network access, database access, or any of the countless
other things that go on in any non-trivial program"? That Python
doesn't perform well executing loops involving mathematical operations?
Or something about "research and development" in the big consulting
houses?

Paul



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 13:39:38 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:39:38 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.58.39.639129@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1797.1128873812.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.17.39.37.623835@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:00:13 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> "Each def or lambda expression that is executed will create a closure if
>> the body of the function or any contained function has free variables."
>>
>> Presumably that means that if there are no free variables, no closure
>> is created.
> 
> you're quoting selectively; the word "closure" isn't used anywhere
> in the design document except for a section that talks about "flat
> closures", which is an implementation approach used in CPython
> (as the sentence before the one you quoted explains).

Given that when I asked about closures, you pointed me at that document
for further information, I thought maybe I could take it as authoritative.

> I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to treat a reference to an
> algorithm and an attribute on an object in a specific implementation as
> the definition of an computer term...

Are you suggesting that Jeremy Hylton got it wrong? That's fine if he did,
but it would help if you said so rather than beating around the bush.

Is it correct to say that Python creates closures *ever*?

Is it correct to say that Python creates closures when a def or lambda
statement is executed?

Is it correct to say that Python *always* creates a closure whenever a def
or lambda is executed? Or is it only for *certain* defs/lambdas?

Is it correct to talk about functions *having* closures, or that they
*are* closures, or that the function is *part of* a closure?

If all functions are closures, what does it mean to say that some
languages (e.g. Java, C++, C#) don't have closures but merely simulate
them? Are there any languages that don't have closures?


Thanks for your patience, I'm sure I'll get there eventually.




-- 
Steven.



From http  Sat Oct  1 02:52:34 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Sep 2005 23:52:34 -0700
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
Message-ID: <7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> writes:
> For a conditional, syntax must be found, and the tradition of Python
> design is not to use punctuation for something that can be solved with
> keywords.

Yeah, "if C then A else B" is a ancient tradition stretching from
Algol-60 to OCAML, and who knows what all else in between.  I'm not
sure what Guido saw in the "A if C else B" syntax but it's not a big deal.


From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 14:27:43 2005
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:27:43 +0100
Subject: [python-win32] findwindow by its class name
In-Reply-To: <djb50q$1od$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACC6@torexch.metrigenix.com>
	<djb50q$1od$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <79990c6b0510211127i690370f6kaa59220d806dea83@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/21/05, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> > Is there any way to know this windows' class name? I need to find it by
[...]
> I'm not saying it can'ty be done (which is a pity for you, because
> that's usually a cue for someone to contradict me) but it's expecting
> quite a lot of win32gui. A wxPython application is not a windows handle,
> and I suspect you will find that the classname you seek isn't visible
> from inside (wx)Python.

You had to make me do it, didn't you? :-)

wxPython windows expose their HWND via the GetHandle() method. So you
can get the frame's class name as

    win32gui.GetClassName(frame.GetHandle())

FWIW, I get a constant value of "wxWindowClassNR".

Hope this helps,
Paul.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Oct  8 14:40:46 2005
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:40:46 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com><mailman.1066.1127905126.509.python-list@python.org><1127975946.942487.214990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h435wx.k8cgta1b2p6jkN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <A77618B80CDD2543B705C82B7665D9F9012B048E@ex9.hostedexchange.local>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> I used to like [double-underscore private names], but as time
> goes by have come to like it less and less; right now,
> unless I have to respect existing coding standards,
> I entirely avoid the double-underscore usage,
> while single-underscores are OKish).

Hear, hear. I've been seriously considering a ban on double-underscore names as part of the coding standard for CherryPy.

And I am also glad you're back! I must say I opened several of your recent posts on topics which I would not otherwise have read. ;)


Robert Brewer
System Architect
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org
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From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Thu Oct 13 23:46:27 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:46:27 -0300
Subject: CSV module and Mac excel format problem
In-Reply-To: <20051014031135.D4B987940DD@longblack.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <198904F8-3C65-11DA-9C8A-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

Many thanks Andrew for this excellent piece of knowledge :-). 4 
characters of code and everything is great!

Regards,
David

On Friday, October 14, 2005, at 12:11 AM, Andrew McNamara wrote:

>> Hi. I have had good success with CSV module but recently came across
>> problem with reading excel from Mac Office.  The trouble is with line
>> endings.  Instead of \r\n you have just \r and the file as a whole
>> appears as a single line. CSV coughs and provides this exception:
>>
>> _csv.Error: newline inside string
>>
>> Saving as Windows (text) in Mac Office solves this but I don't
>> necessarily want to force users to save this way just to avoid
>> modifying my code. There is a lineterminator in the package.  Adding
>> parameter lineterminator='\r' did not correct the problem.
>
> Open the file in universal-newline mode - for example:
>
>     sample = open(filename, 'rU')
>
> "lineterminator" is only used for output - we use the supplied iterator
> (and whatever conventions it imposes) for input.
>
> -- 
> Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
> http://www.object-craft.com.au/
>


From http  Thu Oct 13 19:05:25 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 16:05:25 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129235140.938321.134990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfyr56szy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1129239949.955964.241500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xoe5t6q93.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1129240948.015411.248040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xr7ap587e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
> Important data like diplomatic traffic. Must be accessible from all
> Clients inmediatly a client publish his data.  Its an online system.

OK, if it's actual diplomatic traffic you need to work with your
government about criteria.  If you're in the US, you'd get help from
the NSA.  This sounds more like business data.  It's pretty normal to
rely on your VPN.  That will probably be more secure than some
home-cooked protocol.  If it's highly sensitive then you should use
secure terminals (not PC's), hardware crypto tokens at the endpoints,
and so forth.  Please do read Ross Anderson's book, it sounds like you
really might need it.

Can I ask what country you are in?  Also, how is the data supposed to
get handled at the endpoints?  Is it something like text messages that
get displayed on a screen for someone to read?  Or something like
database updates?  Something like a cash dispenser network where the
leaf clients only make online queries (and maybe dispense cash) but
don't really store much data?

There are a lot of industry standards for different applications like
this.  You should follow one if you possibly can, even if you think
your own method is better.  There are two problems you have to
consider.  The first is how to make the system secure.  For that, you
should assume at this point that the people who designed the standards
knew what they were doing.  The second is what you'll tell the jury if
something goes wrong despite your best efforts.  For that, the best
thing you can tell them is "I followed the standard written by the
industry experts that represents the best knowledge in the field", and
almost the worst thing is "I thought I was smarter than the experts so
I used my own home-cooked method".  So in both areas, following
standards is the best policy.

> > Why do you want to do that?  All of them get compromised if the
> > one password is compromised.
> 
> How is it that all of them get compromised?

It sounded like you're using the same password on all the clients.
If not, then that helps.

> > so why do you need this password stuff at all?
> I don't want to permit anyone to run RPC functions. It's my desire.

I don't understand how the password stuff is related to RPC.  You
shouldn't have RPC ports open on the server.  


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 21 11:24:51 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:24:51 +0200
Subject: Execute C code through Python
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djb183$k2c$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Ernesto" wrote:

> Thanks.  Can anyone provide an example of using *subprocess* to run
> helloWorld.C through the python interpreter.

compile helloWorld, and run:

    import subprocess
    subprocess.call("helloWorld")

(any special reason why you couldn't figure this out yourself, given the
example provided by gsteff ?)

</F> 





From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct  6 11:53:09 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:53:09 -0000
Subject: updating local()
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11kai35kgr9q09b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-06, Flavio <fccoelho at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok,
>
> I got it!
>
> Its vey insecure, and it is not guaranteed to work. Fine.
>
> Now what would you do if you wanted to pass a lot of variables (like a
> thousand) to a function and did not wanted the declare them in the
> function header?

Pass them in a dictionary or tuple or list or object with
attributes.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Am I SHOPLIFTING?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From brp13 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 15:40:42 2005
From: brp13 at yahoo.com (Tuvas)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 12:40:42 -0700
Subject: Library functions
Message-ID: <1128973241.967119.199440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am writing a program that mimics a program written in C, but using
Python-supiorior techniques. The C program calles a library function,
non-open source, I only know that it sends it a command
LINUX_CAN_Open() as for a few others as well. Is there a way I can call
this function from Python without opening the code, as the library is
not open sourced (I know, a rarity with Linux libraries, but, well, it
appears not to be...)? Perhaps write a C function that acts as a
wrapper, is there a way to do it directly? Any help is much
appreciated! Thanks!



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 13 01:44:00 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?UTF-8?B?TGFzc2UgVsOlZ3PDpnRoZXIgS2FybHNlbg==?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:44:00 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129170241.274868.45680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diks73$ck5$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Sorting in Perl
> 
> In Perl, to sort a list, do like this:
> 
> @li=(1,9,2,3);
> @li2 = sort {$a <=> $b} @li;
> print join(' ', @li2);
> 
> 
> In Perl, sort is a function, not some Object Oriented thing. It returns
> the sorted result as another list. This is very simple and nice.

Like the sorted function in Python ?

li2 = sorted(li)

you can also specify a key and a cmp function if you need to.

<snip>
> In this way, the cost of the internals of the ordering function is
> avoided. (it runs on each list element once) However, your huge list is
> copied 1 extra time. So, there are pros and cons. Because this work
> around is very complex in both its semantics and syntax, it has
> acquired a coolness factor among Perl coders, and is given the name
> Schwartzian Transform.

That's about the worst explanation I've seen of Scwartzian Transform 
anywhere. Why deviate from what *every other source* does? Give an 
example, like the typical one of sorting filenames based on the size of 
the file they refer to. If you get the size in the comparison function, 
you can potentially get the size (which is a rather costly operation) 
many times for each file. Instead, you prefetch it once for each 
filename and store that in the list, and use the size as the key for 
sorting.

So while your explanation is technically correct, you lost some of the 
explaining factors. In other words, using Google lets anyone wanting to 
know about "Schwartzian Transform" find *much* better explanations than 
your mumbo jumbo.

But that's no surprise, you're Xah Lee anyway, loosing out is your 
middle name.

BTW, this way of doing the sort is nothing special for Perl, that 
construct can be seen many places simply because it does not fight any 
of Perls "problems" with sorting, instead it overcomes a common problem 
with sorting in any language.

> 
> It is interesting to note what compiler flaws can do to imperative
> languages and its people. In Python, the language syntax is tainted. In

tainted how?

> Perl, a complex construct is invented. In both camps, the basic

invented how?

> mathematics of sorting and its implementation aspects are completely
> belied.

belied how?

It's interesting to note that these "fact posts" of yours are nothing 
bud badly worded opinions.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From dinamo99 at lycos.com  Thu Oct 20 13:12:48 2005
From: dinamo99 at lycos.com (Joe)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:12:48 GMT
Subject: How to extract a part of html file
References: <pan.2005.10.20.05.36.36.987442@lycos.com>
	<dj7e0f$b74$1@rose.polar.local> <86sluwuwp2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.20.17.14.06.831195@lycos.com>

Thanks Mike that is just what I was looking for, I have looked at
beautifulsoup but it doesn't really do what I want it to do, maybe I'm
just new to python and don't exactly know what it is doing just yet.
However string find woks. Thanks

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:47:37 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:

> Ben Finney <bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au> writes:
> 
>> Joe <dinamo99 at lycos.com> wrote:
>>> I'm trying to extract part of html code from a tag to a tag
>> For tag soup, use BeautifulSoup:
>>     <URL:http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/>
> 
> Except he's trying to extract an apparently random part of the file.
> BeautifulSoup is a wonderful thing for dealing with X/HTML documents as
> structured documents, which is how you want to deal with them most of
> the time.
> 
> In this case, an re works nicely:
> 
>>>> import re
>>>> s = '<span class="boldyellow"><B><U>  and ends with TD><TD> <img
>>>> src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE>' r =
>>>> re.match('<span class="boldyellow"><B><U>(.*)TD><TD> <img
>>>> src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE>', s) r.group(1)
> '  and ends with '
>>>> 
>>>> 
> String.find also works really well:
> 
>>>> start = s.find('<span class="boldyellow"><B><U>') + len('<span
>>>> class="boldyellow"><B><U>') stop = s.find('TD><TD> <img
>>>> src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE>', start)
>>>> s[start:stop]
> '  and ends with '
>>>> 
>>>> 
> Not a lot to choose between them.
> 
>     <mike


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 17:10:53 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:10:53 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "=?iso-8859-1?q?British=09accent?="...
In-Reply-To: <11kdtk2t4kksp25@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1730.1128721878.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdtk2t4kksp25@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200510101610.53008.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 07 October 2005 05:28 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Cool.  While we're on the topic, has anybody else noticed that
> "guys" is acceptible and commonly used to refer to a group of
> women, 

Yeah, though it depends on where you are.

> but the singular "guy" is never used to refer to a
> single woman (and most of the women I've asked think that "gal"
> or "gals" is insulting).  

Again, that depends on where you're at, I think.

> Likewise, "dude" is often used when
> addressing a female but almost never

This I have never witnessed.  That's bizarre.

> when speaking about one in
> the third person.


> > The question was a bit broken, it did not list "all y'all" and its
> > most glaring omission was "yous guys"  The Philly responders selected
> > the next best option of "yous"

I don't think "all y'all" is really a plural you form -- it's just
agreement between modifier and pronoun.  Since "all" describes a
group, the 2nd person pronoun must be plural "y'all".  Now, I obviously
haven't been everywhere (;-)), but in my experience, "All y'all" is
used only to explicitly include a larger group, rather than a smaller
one. In other words, it's just as you would use "all of you" in
"proper" English.

;-)

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 17:24:20 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:24:20 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "Britishaccent"...
In-Reply-To: <4347d9ed.0@entanet>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1749.1128764647.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4347d9ed.0@entanet>
Message-ID: <200510101624.20722.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Saturday 08 October 2005 09:29 am, Duncan Smith wrote:
> Yes, although I'm not actually sure where the 'royal we' comes from;

I have heard the explanation, that the "royal we" refers to two people,
the office of the monarch being one, and the person of the monarch
being the other.  But I only report what has been told to me.

:-)

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From none at no.chance  Mon Oct 10 11:20:36 2005
From: none at no.chance (Peter Tillotson)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:20:36 +0100
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <die0mh$4ts$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>

simplest approach is to 1 way hash the password ... perhaps using md5

normally with passwords the server only has to check if it is the same 
word, assuming the same hash algorithms the same hash value can be 
created at client.

Its not hugely secure ... anyone sniffing can grab your hash value and 
then try to crack it at their leisure. It would be better to communicate 
over ssl.

Anyone know of a simple ssl api in python :-)

dcrespo wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a program that serves client programs. The server has a login
> password, which has to be used by each client for logging in. So, when
> the client connects, it sends a string with a password, which is then
> validated on the server side. The problem is obvious: anyone can get
> the password just sniffing the network.
> 
> How can I solve this?
> 
> Daniel
> 


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sun Oct 23 18:46:00 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:46:00 +0100
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2415.1130001399.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.2269.1129752317.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129761106.725465.42290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2415.1130001399.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232341100.24000@urchin.earth.li>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>> reset your brain:
>>>
>>>     http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm

Is it really a good idea to say that objects have names? Isn't it cleaner 
to describe objects without any reference to names or variables or 
whatnot, then introduce names, namespaces and references as tools for 
working with objects? You go on to explain this clearly, but it's a bit of 
a confusing way to start!

tom

PS Sorry to be following up to a message other than the one i'm actually 
replying to - the original, i'm afraid, is an ex-message.

-- 
It is a laborious madness, and an impoverishing one, the madness of
composing vast books. -- Jorge Luis Borges


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 07:07:23 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:07:23 +1000
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2319.1129827209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.11.05.42.788160@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.11.07.23.237649@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:05:43 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> The thing is, a
> *single* string concatenation is almost certainly more efficient than a
> single string concatenation.

Dagnabit, I meant a single string concatenation is more efficient than a
single string replacement using %.


-- 
Steven.



From kent37 at tds.net  Thu Oct 20 14:21:57 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:21:57 -0400
Subject: sort problem
In-Reply-To: <4357c9a4$0$8498$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
References: <4357c22d$0$8481$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
	<1129825485.883210.297890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4357c9a4$0$8498$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
Message-ID: <4357de42$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Michele Petrazzo wrote:
> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> 
>> How about:
>>
>> list.sort(key=lambda x: x[3])

Better to use key=operator.itemgetter(3)

> Yes, on my linux-test-box it work, but I my developer pc I don't have
> the 2.4 yet. I think that this is a good reason for update :)

or learn about decorate-sort-undecorate:

lst = [ ...whatever ]
lst = [ x[3], i, x for i, x in enumerate(lst) ]
lst.sort()
lst = [ x for _, _, x in lst ]

Kent

> 
> Thanks,
> Michele


From superprad at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 16:57:20 2005
From: superprad at gmail.com (PyPK)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 13:57:20 -0700
Subject: File compare
In-Reply-To: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129150640.425790.245150@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Note that the code i wrote wont do the compare based on id which i am
looking for..it just does a direct file to file compare..



From kst-u at mib.org  Fri Oct 14 23:41:13 2005
From: kst-u at mib.org (Keith Thompson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:41:13 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129343741.855770.220940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ln7jcftpk8.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>

"kasimir.g at gmail.com" <kasimir.g at gmail.com> writes:
> Hm... What does this have to do with Perl?
>
> Why did you post this in comp.lang.perl.misc?

He posted this in comp.lang.python, comp.lang.perl.misc,
comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.java.programmer, *and*
comp.os.linux.misc because he's a troll.

I wish I could say that he'll go away if we ignore him.  I can say,
however, that ignoring him will minimize his impact.  In the past, his
rants have led to long rambling arguments across multiple newsgroups,
none of them relevant to any point that might be made -- which is
probably exactly what he wants.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u at mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center             <*>  <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this.


From iminal4 at netscape.net  Tue Oct 18 17:17:25 2005
From: iminal4 at netscape.net (iminal)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 14:17:25 -0700
Subject: A little help with time calculations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2225.1129658853.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129653655.247941.248440@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2225.1129658853.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129670245.463881.317270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

what i have so far is :

    # Get values needed to make time calculations
    CT = input("input your chronometer time (ex. 07:21:46): ")
    CE = input("input your chronometer correction (ex. 00:01:32): ")
    CEfastslow = raw_input("is your chronometer correction fast or
slow: ")

    #decide either to subtract or add CE from/to CT
    if CEfastslow == "fast":
        CEfastslow = CT - CE
    if CEfastslow == "slow":
        CEfastslow = CT + CE

but this just doesnt deal with the numbers in time format its acting
like they are just regualr integers adding them up like regular numbers

i am trying to figure out what u posted and it seems a little
complicated im trying to add it in somehow and figure out exactly what
its doing but still looking for a little easier of a way

thanks so far



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 19 12:07:44 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:07:44 -0400
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129694284.783396.197680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<WKmdnXS_6eREM8jeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129694284.783396.197680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43566F50.40202@bellsouth.net>

Xah Lee wrote:

>Peter Hansen wrote:
>  
>
>>Xah Lee wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>If you think i have a point, ...
>>>      
>>>
>>You have neither that, nor a clue.
>>    
>>
>
>Dear Peter Hansen,
>
>My messages speak themselfs. You and your cohorts's stamping of it does
>not change its nature. And if this is done with repetitiousness, it
>gives away your nature.
>
>It is not necessary to shout against me. But if you must refute (and
>that is reasonable), try to put content into your posts.
>(see Philosophies of Netiquette at
>http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/phil_netiquette.html)
>  
>
Xah,

Thanks for the comic relief of this link.  The first item of comedy came 
from the following two sentences:

'''
Then at the other extreme is the relatively rare Victorian propensity 
where each post is a gem of literature carefully crafted and researched 
for an entire century of readers to appreciate and archive. Xah, Erik 
Naggum, and [censored] posts are exemplary of this style, to name a few 
acquaintances like myself.
'''

I really don't know which is funnier, that you stated these sentences at 
all, or that you probably believe them.  Several things disqualify you 
from gaining my classification of "scholarly" (not that you give a fart 
what I think):

- poor spelling
- poor grammar
- rambling style with lack of cohesive thought
- non-interesting, non-original ideas in your posts
- invalid or incorrect points in your discourse

The next piece of humor came from these sentences:

'''
Go to a newsgroup archive such as dejanews.com and search for your 
favorite poster.  If you find a huge quantity of terse posts that is 
tiring, boring, has little content, and in general requires you to 
carefully follow the entire thread to understand it, then you know 
you've bumped into a conversationalist.
'''

By your definition, you mostly fit into the "conversationalist" 
category.  The only thing that may keep you out of that category is that 
your ramblings are typically lengthy.  So, what you provide is a large 
number of lengthy, tiring, boring, content-less, non-cohesive posts.  
Funny that you bash "the conversationalists" when you have so much in 
common with them.

The third point of humor in this link was the paypal link at the top of 
the page:

'''
If you spend more than 30 minutes on this site, please send $1 to me. Go 
to http://paypal.com/ and make a payment to xah at xahlee.org. Or send to: 
P. O. Box 390595, Mountain View, CA 94042-0290, USA.
'''

It's humorous to think of anyone spending more than 30 minutes on your 
site (apart from the obvious stunned amazement at the content, quite 
like the "can't stop watching the train wreck" phenomenon).  It's even 
more humorous to think of anyone gaining value from it.  But I wouldn't 
be surprised to hear that some people have actually sent you money.

>If you deem fit, create a alt.fan.XahLee, and spare the rest of Python
>community of your politics. I appreciate your fandom.
>
> Xah
> xah at xahlee.org
>? http://xahlee.org/
>
>  
>

sorry-folks-for-feeding-the-troll-ly y'rs,

- jmj



From amk at amk.ca  Mon Oct 31 07:57:10 2005
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:57:10 -0500
Subject: PyCon: proposal deadline is today
Message-ID: <20051031125710.GB13302@rogue.amk.ca>

Today is your last chance to get in your PyCon 2006 submissions.  (If
you can't finish an outline today, you can still submit a summary and
provide the outline in a few days.)

Conference site:    http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/
Call for Proposals: http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/cfp
Submission site:    http://submit.python.org


A.M. Kuchling
Chair, PyCon 2006
amk at amk.ca


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  3 17:36:19 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:36:19 GMT
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <nvh0f.11590$pb5.564339@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Peter Decker <pydecker at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>>Setting the default Reply-To: to the list means that 'Reply' sends
>>just to the list (the desired behavior most of the time), and 'Reply
>>to all' sends 2 copies.
> 
> 
> No, it sends one copy to the list, and one copy to the original
> author. This is the behavior you want. The author may not be
> subscribed to the list. Such people are most in need of help, and you
> want the default to be that they get help.

Is that really the desired behaviour? IMO the least you can do if you're
searching for help is subscribing to the mailing list on which you're
looking for help. Me and many others don't like to receive replies
directly instead of via the mailing list; it's of no use, since we're
subscribed to the mailing list anyway.

Just reply to the mailing list, and subscribe to it if you want to
receive replies. Avoids duplicates without all kinds mail filters. Only
disadvantage is that by subscribing to the mailing list, you receive all
posts to the list, not just the replies to your own post. But that's not
a big disadvantage. On the contrary; one can easily learn something from
them.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Sat Oct  8 14:11:04 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rtilley)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:11:04 -0400
Subject: socket.setdefaulttimeout()
Message-ID: <di9240$d9h$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Perhaps this is a dumb question... but here goes. Should a socket client 
and a socket server each have different values for 
socket.setdefaulttimeout() what happens? Does the one with the shortest 
timeout period end first?


From dbpokorny at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 01:57:36 2005
From: dbpokorny at gmail.com (David Pokorny)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:57:36 -0700
Subject: Hygenic Macros
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2202.1129613940.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
	<mailman.2202.1129613940.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <B82dnU4CaqaHfcjeRVn-oQ@lmi.net>

Hi,

Thanks - this cookbook entry is very cool!

I am somewhat worried about function call overhead from the infix hack 
though... on second consideration, the infix issue is not as important 
as eventually boosting the speed of the inner loop to which 
matrixmultiply() belongs. For those who are interested in things like 
fast math, I found

http://www.scipy.org/documentation/weave/weaveperformance.html

very eye-opening. For many of the examples cited there, it is possible 
to simply treat the source as a string and then do the necessary macro 
transformations before passing it off to a compiler...

David

Robert Kern wrote:
> David Pokorny wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
>>good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
>>multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
>>multiplication). In Python, I have to type
>>
>>import Numeric
>>matrixmultiply(A,B)
>>
>>which makes my code almost unreadable.
> 
> 
> Well, dot(A, B) is better. But if you must:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/384122
> 


From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 31 04:08:46 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 01:08:46 -0800
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
Message-ID: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   Pls take a look at this code:

----------
>>> t1 = "1130748744"
>>> t2 = "461"
>>> t3 = "1130748744"
>>> t4 = "500"
>>> time1 = t1+"."+t2
>>> time2 = t3+"."+t4
>>> print time1, time2
1130748744.461 1130748744.500
>>> float(time2) - float(time1)
0.039000034332275391
>>>

   Why are there so many nonsense tails? thanks for your help.

Regards, 
Johnny



From jdennett at acm.org  Sun Oct 16 21:36:34 2005
From: jdennett at acm.org (James Dennett)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:36:34 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <wdD4f.8085$gj1.3418@fed1read05>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:17:36 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>I'd prefer a (however) rough characterization
>>>>of computational complexity in terms of Big-Oh
>>>>(or Big-whatever) *anytime* to marketing-type
>>>>characterizations like this one...
>>>
>>>Oh how naive.
>>
>>Why is it that even computer science undergrads
>>are required to learn the basics of Big-Oh and
>>all that? 
> 
> 
> So that they know how to correctly interpret what Big O notation means,
> instead of misinterpreting it. Big O notation doesn't tell you everything
> you need to know to predict the behaviour of an algorithm. It doesn't even
> tell you most of what you need to know about its behaviour. Only actual
> *measurement* will tell you what you need to know.

In my experience, I need both knowledge of algorithmic
complexity (in some pragmatic sense) and measurements.
Neither alone is sufficient.

The proponents of algorithmic complexity measures don't
make the mistake of thinking that constants don't matter
for real-world performance, but they also don't make the
mistake of thinking that you can always measure enough
to tell you how your code will perform in all situations
in which it might be used.

Measurement is complicated -- very often, it just shows
you that tuning to match cache sizes is greatly important
to keep the constant factors down.  And yes, for small
data sizes often a linear-time algorithm can beat one
whose execution time grows only logarithmically, while
often a logarithmic time is close enough to constant over
the range of interest.  How an operation runs on a heavily
loaded system where it shares resources with other tasks
can also be greatly different from what microbenchmarks
might suggest.

If we don't oversimplify, we'll measure some appropriate
performance numbers and combine that with some knowledge
of the effects of caches, algorithmic complexity and other
factors that might matter in given situations.  And of
course there will be many situations where programmer time
and simplicity are more important than saving a millisecond,
or even a second, and we won't waste excessive resources in
optimising runtime at the expense of other factors.

-- James


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Tue Oct  4 10:05:30 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:05:30 +0200
Subject: email module, redirecting to stdout
Message-ID: <43428C2A.4070600@designaproduct.biz>


  Hello,

I have this code:

        s = smtplib.SMTP()
        s.set_debuglevel(1)
        s.connect(host=smtp_host)
        s.set_debuglevel(0)
        log("Connected, sending e-mail")
        sys.stdout.flush()       
        s.sendmail(
            consts.EMAIL_FROMADDRESS,
            [to],
            msg.as_string()
        )
        log("E-mail sent OK")
        s.quit()

The problem is that whenever I set the debuglevel to 1, messages will go 
to stderr. I would like them to go to stdout. Using

sys.stderr = sys.stdout

has no effect. Redirecting stderr to stdout from the shell is not an 
option for me, because I need to use stderr for other messages.

Thanks,

   Les



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 05:58:54 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:58:54 +0100
Subject: do cc list from smtplib
In-Reply-To: <9afea2ac0510210244q5373a840k@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1129887280.469124.107340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<9afea2ac0510210244q5373a840k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4358BBDE.3070902@holdenweb.com>

Tim Williams (gmail) wrote:
> On 21 Oct 2005 02:34:40 -0700, eight02645999 at yahoo.com
> <eight02645999 at yahoo.com>
> 
>>def email(HOST,FROM,TO,CC,SUBJECT,BODY):
>>    import smtplib
>>    import string, sys
> 
> 
>>    body = string.join((
>>    "From: %s" % FROM,
>>    "To: %s" % TO,
>>    "CC: %s % CC,
>>    "Subject: %s" % SUBJECT,
>>    "",
>>    BODY), "\r\n")
>>
>>    print body
>>
>>    server = smtplib.SMTP(HOST)
>>    server.sendmail(FROM, [TO]+[CC],body)
>>    server.quit()

Assuming that TO and CC are single addresses it would be saner to use:

     server.sendmail(FROM, [TO, CC], body)

- in other words, use a two-element list rather than creating it by 
concatenating two one-element lists!

Note that as far as the SMTP protocol is concerned it's the list of 
recipients that gets actions, not the headers in the message.

stating-the-obvious-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/


From steve at myplace.com  Mon Oct 10 18:01:17 2005
From: steve at myplace.com (Steve M)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:01:17 -0500
Subject: Changing console text color
Message-ID: <dieoe2$8o3$1@news.netins.net>

Hello,

        I've been trying to change the text color on a windows console
program I've been working on with no luck. I should mention that I'm
a novice so please dummy up your replies.

Thanks-in-Advance
Steve


From qvx3000 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 20:23:20 2005
From: qvx3000 at gmail.com (qvx)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 17:23:20 -0700
Subject: Simulating low bandwidth network on localhost
In-Reply-To: <1128730159.465804.275010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128728893.814798.44050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128730159.465804.275010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128731000.035778.86280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks. I'll try to find a version that works under Windows. So far I
had little luck finding it.

qvx



From python_it at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  5 06:52:24 2005
From: python_it at hotmail.com (Python_it)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 03:52:24 -0700
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
Message-ID: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Python 2.4
MySQL-python.exe-1.2.0.win32-py2.4.zip

How can I insert a NULL value in a table (MySQL-database).
I can't set a var to NULL? Or is there a other possibility?
My var must be variable string or NULL.
Becaus i have a if statement:
if ....
  cursor.execute(".................insert NULL ..............")
if ....
  cursor.execute(".................insert "string" ..............")



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 15:32:42 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:32:42 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux
References: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
	<s9zd5ls7809.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
	<1130353834.320068.213020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlvmam.ah0.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Tim G enlightened us with:
> Sadly, this seems not to be the case on my Ubuntu Breezy: bash
> 3.00.16, libreadline 4.3/5.0 (not sure which one bash is using).
> ctrl-r is fine; but you can't down-arrow from there; it just beeps
> at you. Is there some setting I'm missing?

See my other post in this thread. What I wrote was tested on Ubuntu
Breezy.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Oct 30 17:01:02 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 22:01:02 +0000
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>
	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87r7a2acm9.fsf@pobox.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
[...]
> If you're trying to test your code to ensure it explicitly closes all
> files, you could (from within your tests) rebind built-ins 'file' and
> 'open' to be a class wrapping the real thing, and adding a flag to
> remember if the file is open; at __del__ time it would warn if the file
> had not been explicitly closed.  E.g. (untested code):
[...]

In general __del__ methods interfere with garbage collection, don't
they?  I guess in the case of file objects this is unlikely to be
problematic (because unlikely to be any reference cycles), but I
thought it might be worth warning people that in general this
debugging strategy might get rather confusing since the __del__ could
actually change the operation of the program by preventing garbage
collection of the objects whose lifetime you're trying to
investigate...


John



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 18 13:39:16 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:39:16 -0000
Subject: [wxPython-users] Web based applications are possible with
	wxPython?
References: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11lacq4mmujvi39@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-18, Ruben Charles <rubencharles at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can i have a wxPython GUI app available on a web browser?

I don't believe so.  I think it would be icnredibly difficult
to map a web API into wxWidgets API.

> If not, can you suggest me any kind oh method for have something similar?

I haven't tried it, but this looks sort of cool:

  http://trac.nunatak.com.au/projects/nufox



-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  HELLO, little boys!
                                  at               Gimme a MINT TULIP!! Let's
                               visi.com            do the BOSSA NOVA!!


From dontreply at reply.com  Fri Oct 28 02:25:55 2005
From: dontreply at reply.com (Master)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:25:55 +1000
Subject: How to turn $6 to $16000 in few days of web crawling
Message-ID: <4361c620$0$27956$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

    It Will Work. If you do as I have done! Just Do It! follow the 4 steps.
$6.00 to $15,000.00 in 30 days!
Steps: Follow the Logic, Just Do it and It will work. $$$ in 4 easy steps.
1. Set Up a Free Paypal Account. 2. Send $1.00 to six Email Accounts from
your Paypal Account 3. Delete email address #1 and add your email address as
#6. Move all others #2-#6 up one number 4. Copy and Post this entire Letter
to Newsgroups, Messages Boards etc.
Copy this exactly for you guidance to completing steps 1-4. You are in
Business for yourself and you are Creating an E-mail List Company TURN $6
INTO $15,000 IN ONLY 30 DAYS...HERES HOW!
PAYPAL VERIFIES THAT THIS $6 INVESTMENT SCHEME IS 100% LEGAL AND IS A BIG
HIT THIS YEAR SEE THEIR NOTE BELOW OR ASK THEM DIRECTLY... THIS SCHEME MIGHT
TAKE 15-30 MINUTES AND JUST $6, BUT IT IS 100% WORTH IT TO MAKE THOUSANDS SO
QUICKLY. THIS IS NOT ANOTHER SCAM THAT TAKES LOTS OF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY;
THIS IS A NO RISK INVESTMENT THAT WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS VERY
EASILY AND QUICKLY.
>From PayPal:
"Dear Member, it has come to our attention that there is a paypal scheme
floating around at the moment you may have heard or seen the $6 scheme. You
may have even taken part in it well we have been asked a lot of questions
about this scheme the answer is yes it does work and yes it is safe to use
providing you follow the rules it is legal and has made a big hit on the
internet this year. If you would like to take part in this scheme or would
like a bit more information then please see the attached file that was
kindly donated to us. Thank you for using PayPal!"
TURN $6 INTO $15,000 IN ONLY 30 DAYS...HERES HOW! This is a Money Scheme and
Not, I repeat. This is Not a Scam!!!
You have most likely seen or heard about this project on TV programs such as
20/20 and Oprah, or you may have read about it in the Wall Street Journal.
If not, here it is below - revealed to you in step-by-step detail. This
program is by no means new. It has been in existence in many forms for at
least a decade. But in the early days, it required a lot more time and
effort, as well as an investment of a few hundred dollars. However thanks to
PayPal and the Internet, the investment is now virtually ZERO! And what's
more, the entire process is FASTER, EASIER, and MORE LUCRATIVE than it has
EVER been! Below is the email sent to me:
How to Turn $6 into $15,000 in 30 Days with PayPal I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I SAW
HOW MUCH MONEY CAME FLOODING INTO MY PAYPAL ACCOUNT I turned $6 into $14,706
within the first 30 days of operating the business plan that I am about to
reveal to you free of charge. If you decide to take action on the following
instructions, I will GUARANTEE that you will enjoy a similar return! STILL
NEED PROOF? Here are just 3 testimonials from the countless individuals who
decided to invest nothing more than $6 and half an hour of their time to
participate in this program:
"What an amazing plan! I followed your instructions just 3 weeks ago, and
although I haven't made 15 grand yet, I'm already up to $9,135. I'm
absolutely gob smacked." -Pam Whittemore , Ohio
"Well, what can I say?... THANK YOU SO MUCH! I sent 40 e-mail's out like you
said and then I just forgot about the whole thing. To be honest, I didn't
really think anything would come of it. But when I checked my paypal account
a week later, there was over $5,000 in After 30 days I now have over $11,000
to spend! I can't thank you enough!"-Juan Tovar, NY,NY
"I was shocked when I saw how much money came flooding into my paypal
account. Within 3 weeks my account balance has ballooned to $12,449. At
first I thought there had been some sort of error with my account!" -Richard
Barrie , Boulder,CO
The only things you will need are: An email address. A Business PayPal
account with at least $6 deposited in it, and just 15 to 30 minutes of your
time. This program takes just half an hour to set up. After that, there is
absolutely no work whatsoever to do on your part. You have absolutely
NOTHING to lose, and there is NO LIMIT to the amount of income you can
generate from this one single business program.
Let's get started, just follow the instructions exactly as set out below and
then prepare yourself for a HUGE influx of cash over the next 30 days!
Here's what you need to do. . .
REQUIREMENTS
#1) an email address #2) a Premier or Business PayPal account
(It's simple and free to get a Premier or Business account, if you need help
doing it just email me.)
Now follow the steps: 1-4
________________________________________
Follow these easy steps EXACTLY and just watch what happens
STEP #1 - Setting up your FREE PayPal Account
It's extremely safe and very easy to set up a FREE PayPal account! Copy and
paste this to the address bar https://www.paypal.com (notice the secure
"https" within the link)
Be sure to sign up for a free PREMIER or BUSINESS account (and not just a
PERSONAL account) otherwise you won't be able to receive credit card
payments from other people.
STEP #2 - Sending PayPal money "It is an undeniable law of the universe that
we must first give in order to receive."
Now all you have to do is send $1.00 by way of PayPal to each of the six
email addresses listed below. After setting up your free paypal account and
confirming or verifying YOUR ACCOUNT AND putting (six Dollars) $6.00 into
your Paypal Account use the Account tab on Paypal to send $1.00 to each of
the Names on the List then move the top one and place yours in the #6 spot
on the list of names #1-#6. Remember your name becomes #6.
Make sure the subject of the payment says... *PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR EMAIL
LIST* (this keeps the program 100% legal.. so please don't forget!)
Note: (If you do not see the full email address for the 6 members, just hit
reply to this email and they will show up.)
(Just in case you still haven't opened your PayPal account yet, use this
link to open one in your name), https://www.paypal.com
#1) professor at punkass.com
#2) loki123 at seznam.cz
#3) bald at inbox.lv
#4) fredwdjr at yahoo.com
#5) maintenanceman69 at aol.com
#6) glpratt at optusnet.com.au
Remember, all of this is ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are creating a service! A
Business. An Email List Service Business
If you have any doubts, please refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1241 of the
United States Postal laws.
STEP #3 - Adding Your Email Address
After you send your six $1.00 payments, it's your turn to add your email
address to the list!
Take the #1) email off the list that you see above, move the other addresses
up one (6 becomes 5 & 5 becomes 4, 4 becomes 3, 3 becomes 2, 2 becomes 1,
your email becomes #6) put YOUR email address (the one used in your PayPal
account) as #6) on the list.
**MAKE SURE THE EMAIL YOU SUPPLY IS EXACTLY AS IT APPEARS IN YOUR PAYPAL
ACCOUNT.**
STEP #4 - Copy Message to 200 Newgroups, message boards,etc.. The Pure Joy
of Receiving PayPal Money!
________________________________________
You are now ready to post your copy of this message, to at least 200
newsgroups, message boards, etc. (I think there are close to 32,000 groups)
All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you
make - as well as everyone else on the list! In this situation your job is
to let as many people see this letter as possible. So they will make you and
me rich!!!! You can even start posting the moment your email is confirmed.
Payments will still appear in your PayPal account even while your bank
account is being confirmed.
HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS & MESSAGE BOARDS
Step #1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own
posting. Simply put your CURSOR at the beginning of this letter and drag
your CURSOR to the bottom of this document, and select 'copy' from the edit
menu. This will copy the entire letter into your computer's temporary
memory.
Step #2) Open a blank 'Notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of the
blank page. From the 'Edit' menu select 'Paste'. This will paste a copy of
the letter into notepad so that you can add your email to the list. Or copy
to a Word Document. and Place in the email upon completion.
Step #3) Save your new Notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your
postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go back to.
Step #4) Use Netscape or Internet Explorer and try searching for various
newsgroups, on-line forums, message boards, bulletin boards, chat sites,
discussions, discussion groups, online communities, etc. EXAMPLE: go to any
search engine like yahoo.com, google.com, altavista.com, excite.com - then
search with subjects like? millionaire message board? or money making
message board? or opportunity message board? or money making discussions? or
business bulletin board? or money making forum? etc. You will find thousands
& thousands of message boards. Click them one by one then you will find the
option to post a new message.
Step #5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message
by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting 'Paste' from the
'Edit' menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees
as they scroll thru the list of postings in a particular group, click the
post message button. You're done with your first one!
Congratulations! THAT'S IT!! All you have to do is jump to different
newsgroups and post away. After you get the hang of it, it will take about
30 seconds for each newsgroup!
REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS AND/OR MESSAGE BOARDS YOU POST IN, THE MORE
MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**
That's it! You will begin receiving money within days!
**JUST MAKE SURE THE EMAIL YOU SUPPLY IS EXACTLY AS IT APPEARS ON PAYPAL.**
Explanation of why it works so well:
$$$$$ NOW THE WHY PART: Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a
very low example). So then I Made $5.00 with my email at #6 on the letter.
Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200
postings, each with my email at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the
original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200
MINIMUM posts with my email at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in
an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the
MINIMUM 200 with my email at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make
an additional $625.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625
persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my email at #2 and they only receive
5 replies that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all
deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my email at #1 and if still 5
persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625.00! With an original
investment of only $6.00! AMAZING!! When your email is no longer on the
list, you just take latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another
$6.00 to emails on the list, putting your email at number 6 again. And start
posting again.
The thing to remember is, thousands of people all over the world are joining
the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now!!
So can you afford $6?? And see if it really works?? I think so? People have
said, what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what
are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users
and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday
and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new
users everyday, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet.
Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work. This really isn't
another one of those crazy scams! As long as people follow through with
sending out $6.00, it works!
With warm wishes, bless you and your loved ones, https://www.paypal.com







From debl2_nospammy at verizon.net  Sat Oct 22 00:34:48 2005
From: debl2_nospammy at verizon.net (David)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 04:34:48 GMT
Subject: Problem with py2exe
In-Reply-To: <b_i6f.983$tl5.494@trnddc02>
References: <b_i6f.983$tl5.494@trnddc02>
Message-ID: <Ijj6f.1900$HW5.1689@trnddc04>

David wrote:
> I am unable to use py2exe to create an executable, even on the simple 
> sample that comes with the package.  There seems to be a problem when it 
> is copying files.  The ?build? and ?dist? directories are created and 
> populated, but there is no executable created.  The error message says:
> 
> setup.py returned exit code: can?t copy c:\Python24\Lib\sit
> 
> I am running on Windows XP with distribution 2.4.2 and executing the 
> setup.py from Pythonwin Build 204
> 
> I downloaded py2exe from sourceforge the version of py2exe for Python 2.4
> 
> Can anyone suggest what may be wrong?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> David

OK, I was a bit hasty in posting.  I am now able to create the 'hello' 
executable, but am still puzzled.  By going into the windows 'cmd' 
window and executing Python from the command line, the py2exe build is 
done properly.  But when I do the execution of the setup.py from the 
Pythonwin prompt I get the failure originally reported.  Is it possible 
to run py2exe from Pythonwin?

David


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Fri Oct 14 12:32:49 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:32:49 -0700
Subject: Moving to Win XP as a Python developer
In-Reply-To: <dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <434fdd3b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Christian Stapfer wrote:
> "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>cmd.exe can be made bearable....
>>
>>0. Make a shortcut to cmd.exe, stick it somewhere get-at-able,
>>  eg. quick launch toolbar
I put it on my desktop.  Once having made it, fiddle with
"Start in" to be your favorite python code directory (that is
why I usually have several), and append a space and /D /X /F:ON
to the "Target" line.

You can see the options to cmd by typing "HELP CMD" or
"HELP CMD>>CMD_DOC", or by looking up the "Windows Command Reference"
and reading about the "cmd" command.

I find a bunch of text in a file easier to read than Microsoft's
help facility (it comes in tiny bites w/o clear navigation to my
tastes).  At one time, more info was in the help command text than
was available through the help facility, but they've gotten closer.
I'm not sure whether the same info is in both; better to review both.

Here's a cute recipe for getting the help command text (works only
for Python 24).
 From Python 2.4 (either in Idle or from a command line):

     import subprocess as subp

     p = subp.Popen("cmd.exe /X/D/F:ON", stdin=subp.PIPE,
                    stdout=subp.PIPE, stderr=subp.STDOUT)
     flag = "(@@@@@@}"
     print >>p.stdin, "PROMPT", flag
     print >>p.stdin, "HELP"
     print >>p.stdin, "EXIT"
     text = p.stdout.read()
     p.wait()
     helptext = text[text.index(flag + 'HELP') + len(flag) + 4 :
                     text.index(flag + 'EXIT')]
     words = [line.split(None, 1)[0]
              for line in helptext.split('\n')
              if line.strip()]
     commands = [word for word in words if word.isupper()]

     dest = open('cmd_help.txt', 'wb')
     p = subp.Popen("cmd.exe /X/D/F:ON", stdin=subp.PIPE,
                    stdout=dest, stderr=subp.STDOUT)
     print >>p.stdin, "PROMPT (@@@@@@@@)"
     print >>p.stdin, "HELP"
     for command in commands:
         print >>p.stdin, "HELP", command
     print >>p.stdin, "EXIT"
     p.wait()
     dest.close()

Also, I found it invaluable to know that typing ALT+SPACE
in the CMD window took me to the options window (good for
pasting).

In moving to work on Windows, you will want a good text editor
(notepad is not enough for me), find an emacs or vim or whatever
and make sure you install it.  I also carry around rcs and a
little utility I wrote called "recent."  It'd be a good idea to
define your own utility directory, stick its name on your command
path and keep stuff in there.  Either MingW32 or VC71 would be good
to have, both might be better.  Good luck.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 14 11:42:34 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:42:34 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <IoCBKo.9xx@bath.ac.uk>
	<7xu0fkw6ps.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <867jcgt89h.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
>> Not so: you disable Java, Javascript and plugins.  You leave the ability 
>> to format, colour and hint documents.  This is not /that/ difficult.
> Don't forget disabling Unicode.  

To kill web bugs, you have to turn off images, and anything else that
automattically loads content from an external server. No inline images
is a pretty large hit on formatting.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  4 19:08:02 2005
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:08:02 GMT
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
	<mailman.1469.1128460390.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <adcb13-otn.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.1469.1128460390.509.python-list at python.org>,
 <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
 			.
			.
			.
>Here's how it behaved over several runs:
>$ python soc.py 
>('0.0.0.0', 34205)
>$ python soc.py 
>('0.0.0.0', 34206)
>$ python soc.py 
>('0.0.0.0', 34207)
>
>I don't know for sure whether this is standard behavior for sockets, or whether
>it's a special behavior of linux.
			.
			.
			.
It is standard behavior for sockets.  To my surprise, I haven't
(yet) found an RFC that specifies it, but the behavior has a deep
and wide history--even Microsoft sockets respect the convention.


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 06:37:06 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 03:37:06 -0700
Subject: PyGame & Web hosts
References: <1129349057.116550.219300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2105.1129352681.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129372626.384311.199980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Blender provided a web plugin with which you can program games in 3D
(of course also in 2D) with Python. Unfortunately it is not actively
supported anymore, but it still works. I think you can still use the
old version.

Download the plugin here:
http://www.blender3d.org/cms/3D_web_plug-in.15.0.html

And check out these cool examples:
http://www.blender.org/cms/3D_Web_Plug-in.161.0.html

More information here:
http://www.blender3d.org/cms/3D_web_plug-in.199.0.html

A tutorial:
http://www.blender3d.com/cms/3D_Walkthrough.340.0.html

To use it with wxPython, the wxBlenderPlayer:
http://blender3d.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732&view=next&sid=a0aa50a35c2173ee83ed18e6ef329783

To get some help, you could post to one of these forums:
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5
http://www.blender.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor (http://pythonide.stani.be) with optional
Blender support



From saint.infidel at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 13:55:32 2005
From: saint.infidel at gmail.com (infidel)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 10:55:32 -0800
Subject: Instantiating Classes in python (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <1130778190.962165.307250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130778190.962165.307250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130784932.768378.233260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

> Hello, I am learning python for work from knowing java,c#,c.  I had a
> couple questions.
> 1)  IntegerClass - to instantiate this class how come I use i =
> IntegerClass.IntegerClass() and then this works while i =
> IntegerClass() i.method.  I receive an error.

It depends on what IntegerClass is.  If you have a module named
IntegerClass with a class named IntegerClass within it, then you must
use IntegerClass.IntegerClass to refer to the class, because
IntegerClass is the module.  You could also change the import statement
to:

from IntegerClass import IntegerClass

... in which case, IntegerClass in your current namespace will be the
class and not the module.

This is all an educated guess because you didn't specify what the error
was.

> 2)  Also using self in the method (self, dataVal).  What does this do
> differently from using (dataval).  I am a little confused about the
> bound and unbound methods.  What does passing self do different?
> Thank-you for all your help

A bound method is kind of like an instance method in java, it's "bound"
to a particular instance object.  Python automatically inserts a
reference to the object itself as the first argument to a bound call.
"self" is just like "this" in Java, but you have to explicitly account
for it in the method signature.



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 15:04:46 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:04:46 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<2u59l1555jubv8qv09q57qh8m4skei9dqi@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F313F71494Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<3tc9l11oejnq3i2hnrld7akujouk3771tv@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F38418ADF38castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <iHb5f.3391$q%.177@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F38418ADF38castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 18 Oct 2005 06:57:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
>> or quoted :
>>
>>>>>That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML
>>>>>recommendation by w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things,
>>>>>and mixing them up by calling both standards is a bad thing.
>>>>
>>>> Because ... what are the consequences?
>>>
>>>If you mean if you are put in jail for 20 years, and tortured, none.
>>
>> No. ANY consequences.  You have not explained the downside.
>
> ISO HTML and HTML 4.01 differ. If you were asked to write a validating
> parser for the HTML standard, (as in ISO), and you wrote one for HTML 4.01
> (as in recommendation), you made quite a mistake.

There are standards that conflict, and also recommendations that conflict. 
Why is confusing standard A with recommendation P worse than

1.  confusing standard A with  standard B, or
2.  confusing recommendation P with  recommendation Q




From joeyjwc at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 16:25:01 2005
From: joeyjwc at gmail.com (Joey C.)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 13:25:01 -0700
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2468.1130148351.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2468.1130148351.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130185501.221232.17370@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Here is a basic overview of the variables included there.

params = cgi.FieldStorage()
I accidentally made a mistake when typing what the "thefile" variable
is.
thefile = params["upfile"].file
"upfile" is the CGI field that contains the file that I'm uploading.
As you can see, the if statement just compares two values,
os.path.getsize(thefile) and conf["upmax"], a variable I set that is
designated as the maximum file size allowed.

I'm assuming that this is all the information you need.  I'm sorry for
not including it earlier; I was in a bit of a rush.  ^.^



From guenais at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 22:55:02 2005
From: guenais at yahoo.com (guenais at yahoo.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 19:55:02 -0700
Subject: Accessing Parallel Port in Python Error : Priviledged Instruction
Message-ID: <1129344902.717940.57730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello

When I use Pyparallel to access the parallel port in WinXP with Python
I get an error saying that this is a priviledged instruction

Any clue ?

Mike



From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 24 15:01:58 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:01:58 +0200
Subject: Python/Apache Oddness On OSX
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2482.1130165182.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2482.1130165182.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3s4pd7FmgenfU1@uni-berlin.de>

John Abel wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm running Python 2.3.5/2.4.2 on OSX 10.4.2, and am trying to run CGI 
> scripts using the builtin Apache.  For ease, I've symlinked my custom 
> modules into the /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages directory, and they 
> import OK via command line python.  However, when I perform the import 
> from a cgi script, python fails to find the module.  It is definately 
> something to do with the symlink, as the CGI works OK if I copy the 
> directory into site-packages.  Is there some oddness with Python/Apache 
> and symlink imports?
> 
> Any pointers would be most useful.

Not sure if that is the case here, but I know that apache has some 
directives that are named FollowSymlinks and the like - might be that 
this affects your situation.

Regards,

Diez


From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:23:26 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (py)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 12:23:26 -0800
Subject: yapsnmp - on windows
Message-ID: <1130790206.442561.244400@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I have installed net-snmp and of course python on windows xp.  I
downloaded yapsnmp (http://yapsnmp.sourceforge.net/) and I can't seem
to use it.  It has a swig interface...but I get errors when trying to
swig it..

C:\yapsnmp-0.7.8\src>"c:\Program Files\swigwin-1.3.25\swig.exe" -python
net-snmp.i
net-snmp.i(29): Error: Unable to find 'asn1.h'
net-snmp.i(30): Error: Unable to find 'snmp_api.h'
net-snmp.i(31): Error: Unable to find 'snmp.h'
net-snmp.i(32): Error: Unable to find 'snmp_client.h'
net-snmp.i(33): Error: Unable to find 'mib.h'
net-snmp.i(34): Error: Unable to find 'default_store.h'

C:\yapsnmp-0.7.8\src>

...Any ideas?  Anyone have this working on windows?



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 00:53:47 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 21:53:47 -0700
Subject: python interpreter
In-Reply-To: <digm1h$9si$1@online.de>
References: <digm1h$9si$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <1129265627.830552.187100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

g.franzkowiak wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> my interest is for the internals of the Python interpreter.
>
> I've used up to now FORTH for something and this indirect interpreter is
>  very smart.
> --- ASM ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Where can I find informations like this for Python ?

Depends on what you want.  If you want to see the disassembled bytes
similar to what I cut out, see the dis module.  (e.g.,
dis.dis(foo_func))

If you want to know how the byte codes are created, it's mostly in
Python/compile.c.  If you want to know how the byte codes are executed,
it's mostly in Python/ceval.c.

All base Python objects implemented in C are under Objects/.  All
standard modules implemented in C are under Modules/.

Get the source and build it.  It's quite readable.

n



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 10:35:14 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:35:14 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
	<1130647542.669549.300360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130650739.826914.255090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h58kdg.1m6ijpbsthzozN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

lbolognini at gmail.com <lbolognini at gmail.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > I find this style of coding repulsive when compared to:
> >
> > def foo(arg1=None, arg2=None):
> >     print dict(arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)
> >
> > I don't understand what added value all of those extra, contorted lines
> > are supposed to bring to the party.
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> the thing is that I have about 30 parameters to pass to a method and I
> wanted to have a cleaner way to deal with it than just declaring them
> all as arguments: hence **kwargs and all that mess ;-)

Aha, I see -- yes, a nasty case; I understand why you don't want the
boilerplate of 30 'optional named arguments'.


> I was thinking to declare the a list of valid and expected parameters
> in a module and then import * and run my checks against it. Since this

A list seems inappropriate, because it implies an order you don't care
about; I would suggest a set instead.  Also, I don't see why "import *"
would be better than a normal import here -- the latter seems better.

> stuff is being posted by a web form I also need to deal with checkbox
> not being posted if not checked which lead me to:
> 
> for name in expected_form1_kwargs:
>     if name not in kwargs:
>         kwargs[name]=None

Set operations appear to be at a more appropriate level of abstraction
for what you're doing, it seems to me.  You want to ensure that kwargs,
seen as a set, is a subset of expected_kwargs, and then enrich kwargs
with None for all names that are in expected_kwargs but not yet in
kwargs; the most direct expression of this (assuming you want a detailed
diagnostics of wrongly-passed argument names), it appears to me, is to
keep in expected_args the dictionary mapping each expected arg to its
default value (dict.fromkeys(listofnames), if listofnames is a list of
the expected arguments' names a None the default value for each) and
then check in your method with code such as:

spurious_args = set(kwargs).difference(expected_args)
if spurious_args:
    raise TypeError, 'spurious args %s' % spurious_args
kwargs = dict(expected_args, **kwargs)

If you didn't need the list of spurious argument names for diagnostic
purposes, the check might be more simply expressed as

if not set(kwargs).issubset(expected_args): ...

which is more readable (IMHO the difference isn't quite enough to
warrant checking in this way and then computing the spurious_args only
if needed, i.e., in the body of the if statement, but that's a debatable
issue of style).


Operating on sets, and more generally at higher abstraction levels, is
often a preferable Python alternative to "detailed looping" at a level
that's closer to the concrete data structures in your code.


Alex


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 07:51:38 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:51:38 GMT
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <87u0exnbb4.fsf@linux.site>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<87zmopnco7.fsf@linux.site>
	<Qon9f.25804$m%6.21030@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<87u0exnbb4.fsf@linux.site>
Message-ID: <uro9f.25941$m%6.22929@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Alex Hunsley <lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> writes:
> 
> 
>>Btw, can you recall the subject line of the thread? I'd like to google groups
>>for it and have a read of that thread...
>>ta!
> 
> 
> Search for: "alex martelli pychecker" on comp.lang.python...  I don't have the
> thread's name anymore.  You'll probably find more than one thread with
> that. :-)

thanks! :]
lex

> 


From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 16:37:54 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:37:54 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130531874.710810.39050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

In C++ you can specify a comparision method, how can I do this with
python...
Say for instance the first list was a dictionary and I wanted to sort
on one of the keys in the dictionary?



From john.thingstad at chello.no  Mon Oct 24 09:43:52 2005
From: john.thingstad at chello.no (John Thingstad)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:43:52 +0200
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129701270.792327.168620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129708210.963305.43270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129710240.173768.151950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129715281.505043.60640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.sy5kfeckpqzri1@mjolner.upc.no>

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:48:01 +0200, Xah Lee <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:

> Thanks a lot for various notes. Bonono?
>
> I will have to look at the itertools module. Just went to the doc
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/module-itertools.html
> looks interesting.
>
>> But I believe Python is designed for easy to code and read and maintain
>> in mind.
>
>> One has to admit that without some training, FP is not very
>> intuitive, my head spin when I see haskell code. A for loop is easier
>> to understand.
>
> This i'm not sure. Of the past couple of years i increasingly developed
> a theory (probably well-known among proper experts), that the
> difficulty of human feats of various forms, are primarily a perception
> and familiarity thing. This may be getting off topic, but i wrote an
> essay expresising much of the idea using Juggling as a example:
> Difficulty Perceptions in Human Feats
>  http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/juggling.html
>
> likewise, i think this applies to mental feats as well. In particular,
> i think that whether imperative code or functional code is easier for
> the mind is almost ENTIRELY dependent on which one the person is more
> familiar with, coulped with a innate attitude one may have picked up.
>
>> Well, if you want clean FP, you can always try haskell which is getting
>> better and better in terms of real world module support(file system,
>> network etc).
>
> oh Haskell, my love! I am really going to learn it now. (maybe i'll
> start A-Java-Haskell-A-Day) This month i just learned and read about
> how Perl 6 is implemented in Haskell! (because one Taiwaness hacker
> single-handedly by happenstance tried to do it, as a by-product of
> learning Haskell) This Pugs (Perl6 in Haskell) really brought two
> rather incompatible communities together somewhat for mutual exchange.
> (the learning, on the surface, is politely said to be mutual, but i'm
> pretty sure it's mostly Perlers learning from the Haskell folks)
>
> ... there is a sentiment among the elite tech-geeking morons, early on
> imbued by the concept of troll, so that they in general don't
> communicate and learn from any other language except their own.
> Anything cross-posted is considered as troll, and the inter-language
> communication has been essentially completely cut off. Basically, the
> only ones generating all the garbage posts are these troll-criers
> themselves. (will have to flesh out on this particular point of
> net-sociology in a essay some other day.)
>
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/
>

Honestly.. "your programming skills suck"

John

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 16 11:35:27 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:35:27 +0200
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org><1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3rf96uFjbfetU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <dits00$gqd$1@sea.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Files allow to seek, in addition to stream semantics.

Some files.  Not all files support seek operations.  Some only support
forward seek.

</F>





From mnations at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 13:12:43 2005
From: mnations at gmail.com (Mudcat)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 10:12:43 -0700
Subject: What's the best SNMP interface?
Message-ID: <1129050763.011814.92590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I don't know very much at all about SNMP, but I have an application
where I need to use it. I won't be doing too much with it, just simple
queries for metric values and capturing traps.

I've searched on the net for information but haven't found anything
that recent as to what is the best interface to use. Unfortunately,
sourceforge is down at the moment, so I can't look at any of the
documenation either. But I've read a little about pySNMP and yapSNMP.
I've also read where some people interfaced with modules in C and Tcl
to interface with it.

I'm not really concerned with speed. I just need something simple that
will not require me to spend much time trying to integrate it with the
test platform I already have. 

Thanks for any info,
Marc



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 11 10:20:09 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:20:09 +1000
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndkmo1c.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<dig094$ntj$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.14.20.08.619909@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:22:39 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> This begs a different question along the same lines.

Er, no it doesn't. "Begs the question" does _not_ mean "asks the question"
or "suggests the question". It means "assumes the truth of that which
needs to be proven".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-beg1.htm

(Both of these sources are far more forgiving of the modern mis-usage than
I am. Obviously.)


> If I have a generator or other iterable producing a vast number of
> items, and use it like this:
> 
> s = [k for k in iterable]
> 
> if I know beforehand how many items iterable would possibly yield, would
> a construct like this be faster and "use" less memory?
> 
> s = [0] * len(iterable)
> for i in xrange(len(iterable)):
>      s[i] = iterable.next()

Faster? Maybe. Only testing can tell -- but I doubt it. But as for less
memory, look at the two situations.

In the first, you create a list of N objects.

In the second, you end up with the same list of N objects, plus an xrange
object, which may be bigger or smaller than an ordinary list of N
integers, depending on how large N is.

So it won't use *less* memory -- at best, it will use just slightly more.

Is there a way from within Python to find out how much memory a single
object uses, and how much memory Python is using in total?


-- 
Steven.



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 21:39:47 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:39:47 -0500
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-E41745.11211810102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <200510102039.47709.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 10 October 2005 01:21 pm, Donn Cave wrote:
> In article <mailman.1800.1128890475.509.python-list at python.org>,
> I am not very well acquainted with these technologies, but it sounds
> like variations on the implementation of an interpreter, with no
> really compelling distinction between them.  When a program is deployed
> as instructions in some form other than native code executable, and
> therefore those instructions need to be evaluated by something other
> than the hardware, then that would be some kind of interpretation.
> I agree that there are many shades of grey here, but there's also a
> real black that's sharply distinct and easy to find -- real native
> code binaries are not interpreted.

Please remember the context! Fredrik Lundh meant that anyone doing
*benchmarks* who called Python an interpreter was missing something
pretty important.   Since Python actually pre-compiles much of its
work, it acts more like a compiled language on many benchmarks.

In fact, this is true of many "interpreted" languages nowadays.

In particular, with regard to the original poster's question, the
fact that Python knows about and accesses attributes and methods
by their string name is not all that relevant -- the string
comparisons that are implied are generally optimized out (IIRC).

So it seems doubtful that Python does any more "string manipulation"
in the course of its usual execution than would any other language,
given the same tasks.

Admittedly, Python does encourage the kind of meta programming
that relies on knowing string names -- but I think that interning
strings remains an optimization even for most of those cases.

Assuming that Python will be slowed down because it has to
do a string comparison everytime it looks up an attribute is
assuming the dumbest possible interpreter design! (One which
works directly from the source text).

I think *that* was the point.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Thu Oct  6 20:21:50 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:21:50 -0700
Subject: Simple prototype text editor in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1617.1128610872.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128530997.895468.164240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1585.1128581675.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128609090.858119.28110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1617.1128610872.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4345bf5f$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Robert Kern wrote:
> thakadu wrote:
>>Regarding the license I have not yet decided what type
>>of license (if any, since its very few lines of code)  but probably
>>will be GPL or BSD style. I have no former experience in
>>licensing code so any suggestions will be welcome there as well.

I've heard the MIT license (a BSD-style license) is a well-written
(legally) license that makes clear you still get credit, don't get
particular blame for ill side-effects, and allows others to use
and modify.  I personally like this style for Python code, since
that is the way Python was handed to me.

The GPL and LGPL are good alternatives if you believe in forcing
others to pen their code in exchange for using yours.  Pick
carefully there.

I'd suggest that picking from the above is the most useful,
picking from the larger range of "well-known" licenses is
second best, and writing your own is worst.  You might even
write "all rights reserved; write me for a particular case"
and get about the same response that writing your own will
get.  The reason for this ordering is that the MIT, LGPL,
and GPL are all licenses that are well-understood by most
programmers, so they needn't go into "reading like a lawyer"
mode to think about whether they can use things based on your
code.  The more work they have to do, the less likely they
will even look at your code (if they behave anything like me).

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From gshepherd281 at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  9 20:43:04 2005
From: gshepherd281 at earthlink.net (ProvoWallis)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 17:43:04 -0700
Subject: Newbie Count Question
Message-ID: <1128904984.744314.70870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a newbie count question.

I have a number of SGML documents divided into sections but over the
course of editing them the some sections have been deleted (and perhaps
others added). I'd like to renumber them. The input documents look like
this:

<sec-main no="1.01">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.02">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.03">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.08">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.09">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.10">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.15">

and after renumbering I would like the sections to look like this:

<sec-main no="1.01">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.02">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.03">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.04">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.05">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.06">
<content>
<sec-main no="1.07">

so they are basically numbered sequentially from 1 thru to the end of
the number of sections.

I've managed to get this far thanks to looking at other posts on the
board but no matter waht I try all of the sections end up being
numbered for the total number of sections in the document. e.g., if
there are 100 sections in the document the "no" attribute is "1.100"
for each one.

import os, re

setpath = raw_input("Enter the path where the program should run: ")
print

for root, folders, files in os.walk(setpath):
    for name in files:
        filepath = os.path.join(root, name)
        fileopen = open(filepath, 'r')
        data =  fileopen.read()
        fileopen.close()

        secmain_pattern = re.compile(r'<sec-main no=\"(\d*)\.(\d*)\">',
re.IGNORECASE)
        m = secmain_pattern.search(data)
        all = secmain_pattern.findall(data)

        counter = 0
        for i in range(0,len(all)):
             counter = counter + 1
             print counter

        if m is not None:
             def new_number(match):
                  return '<sec-main no="%s.%s">' % (match.group(1),
counter)
             data = secmain_pattern.sub(new_number, data)

        outputFile = file(os.path.join(root,name), 'w')
        outputFile.write(data)
        outputFile.close()


Thanks for your help!



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 09:27:40 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:27:40 +0200
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130072403.157932.147930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djg34e$isf$1@sea.gmane.org>

"beza1e1" wrote:

> It has is uses. I had some kind of parser and had a dict like this:
> {case: function, ...} It had to be a dict, because i wanted to
> dynamically add and remove cases. In some cases nothing had to be done.
> To represent this in the dict a identity function is needed.

in Python, that's spelled "lambda x: x" (or "None", in some contexts)

</F>





From mynews44 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  1 08:39:09 2005
From: mynews44 at yahoo.com (googleboy)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 05:39:09 -0700
Subject: list.join()...  re.join()...? Do they exist? (newbie questions...)
Message-ID: <1128170349.146250.303370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi.

In some google posts I searched suggested that there was a list.join()
thing that I assume works like string.join [which I notice is now
deprecated in favour of S.join()]

It seems that I have been misled.

I start with a text file that I split up to run some formatting over
the various sections with re.split.  I want to join it back together
again with a | delimeter and write it out to a new file.  I looked for
a re.join, but it seems that doesn't exist.   I looked for a list.join
after reading the aforementioned posts, but it doesn't seem to exist
either.

To get it to work I did this:


List[0] = list0
List[1] = list1
List[2] = list2
List[3] = list3
cat_list = list0 + '|' + flatblurb + '|' + flatcontents + '|' + flates
+ '\n'
file.write(concat_list)


But it seems to me that there is probably something more pythonic than
having to go about it in such a laborious fashion....

Would someone be so kind as to fill me in?

TIA!

googleboy



From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 26 09:16:13 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:16:13 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 2005-10-25, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:

>>Can somebody remind me, what is the problem Antoon is trying to solve here?
> 
> 
> Well there are two issues. One about correct behaviour and one about
> practicallity.
> 
> The first problem is cmp. This is what the documentation states:
> 
> cmp(x, y)
>     Compare the two objects x and y and return an integer according to
>     the outcome. The return value is negative if x < y, zero if x == y
>     and strictly positive if x > y. 
> 
> The problem is, that if someone implements a partial ordered class,
> with the rich comparisons, cmp doesn't behave correct. It can't
> behave correct because it will always give an number as a result
> and such a number implies one of three relations between two
> elements, but with partial ordered classes, it is possible none
> of these relations exist between those two elements. So IMO cmp
> should be changed to reflect this. This can be done either by cmp
> returning None or UnequalValues.  or by cmp raising UnequalValues
> in such a case.

Instead of changing cmp, why not just have several common versions to 
choose from instead of trying to make one tool do it all?

> The second part is one of practicallity. Once you have accepted cmp,
> should reflect this possibility, it makes sense that the __cmp__
> method should get the same possibilities, so that where it is more
> pratical to do so, the programmer can implement his partial order
> through one __cmp__ method instead of having to write six.
> 
> 
> In my opinion such a change would break no existing code. This
> is because there are two possibilities.
 >
> 1) The user is using cmp on objects that form a total order.
> In such circumstances the behaviour of cmp doesn't change.
> 
> 2) The user is using cmp on objects that don't form a total
> order. In such circumstances cmp doesn't give consistent
> results, so the code is already broken.


Adding complexity to cmp may not break code, but it could probably slow 
down sorting in general.  So I would think what ever improvements or 
alternatives needs to be careful not to slow down existing sorting cases.

Cheers,
    Ron



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 18:11:07 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:11:07 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>
>>> Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation.
>>
>> And the practical difference between the two is....
>>
>> That's right, nil.
>
> If you both read them as a collection of words, you're right. However, as 
> a
> (freelance) programmer, things like this *do* make a difference to me, and
> my customers.

That is, you assume that files claiming to contain XML documents may 
actually contain some variant of XML, because that's only a recommendation, 
while files claiming to contain C++ are all ISO-conformant, because that's a 
standard?

If so, you've got things precisely backwards.  C++ compilers that contain 
extensions or are not quite compliant are everywhere. XML parsers that 
accept non-well-formed XML are, ASFAIK, non-existent. 




From timr at probo.com  Tue Oct 25 02:36:23 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:36:23 GMT
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0fkrl15cteikfb09ah670kv9bupr902soi@4ax.com>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

>This post comes from a boring morning, if you are busy ignore this.
>This post is only for relaxed people.
>
>I've found this page, "Syntax Across Languages", it contains many
>errors and omissions, but it's interesting.
>http://merd.sourceforge.net/pixel/language-study/syntax-across-languages.html
>
>Compared to the other languages Python comes out rather well, in quick
>scan only few things look better in other languages (usually all/most
>things are possible in all languages, so it's often just a matter of
>brevity, elegance, etc):
>
>- Nestable Pascal-like comments (useful): (* ... *)

That's only meaningful in languages with begin-comment AND end-comment
delimiters.  Python has only begin-comment.  Effectively, you CAN nest
comments in Python:


  cool = 17
  
  # The following section of code has been commented out.
  #
  # call_function( cool )
  #
  # # This would be neater if I had a real-life example.
  # # As it is, it looks silly.
  #
  # print "New result", cool

  print "All done"
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From blp at cs.stanford.edu  Sun Oct 16 13:49:46 2005
From: blp at cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:49:46 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<vc05l11nqdfbs71u20k4fi1kcop8lpus4t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87irvxnyh1.fsf@benpfaff.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> End users HATE PDF.  Why?
>
> It takes so long for the reader to load.

xpdf comes up almost instantly here.  Maybe end users should
consider finding a better PDF reader.
-- 
"Your correction is 100% correct and 0% helpful. Well done!"
--Richard Heathfield


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Oct 22 19:53:19 2005
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:53:19 -0400
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<88e3c$4359d217$d8fea545$17293@PRIMUS.CA>
	<6rsp23-s0t.ln1@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <7f153$435ad0ef$d1b71608$16495@PRIMUS.CA>

Chris F.A. Johnson <cfajohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2005-10-22, William Park wrote:
> > hagai26 at gmail.com <hagai26 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
> >> in a str, like this:
> >> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
> >> I know I can use spilt and than join them
> >> but I can also use regular expressions
> >> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one
> >
> > I doubt you'll find faster than Sed.
> 
>    On the contrary; to change a string, almost anything will be faster
>    than sed (except another external program).
> 
>    If you are in a POSIX shell, parameter expansion will be a lot
>    faster.
> 
>    In a python program, one of the solutions already posted will be
>    much faster.

Care to put a wager on your claim?

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>, Toronto, Canada
ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive
	   http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html
BashDiff: Super Bash shell
	  http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/


From das at awd.com  Sun Oct 30 19:13:07 2005
From: das at awd.com (Martin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:13:07 +0100
Subject: Message about not deleted folders using Inno Setup
Message-ID: <dk3nip$ksg$1@inews.gazeta.pl>

Hi
    I would like to place a message in an uninstaller window which will
inform the user that some folders haven't been deleted. Is that possible 
using
Inno Setup?

--
Thanks in advance
Martin


From jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk  Fri Oct 14 09:03:14 2005
From: jbo at cannedham.ee.ed.ac.uk (Jim O'D)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:03:14 +0100
Subject: array subset could be improved? -repost ;)
Message-ID: <dioa3k$4g0$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Hi all

I have an array a=array([2,3,-1]).

I want to extract an array with all the elements of a that are less than 0.

Method 1.
new = array([i for i in a if i < 0])

Method 2.
new = a[nonzero(a<0)]

I'm using Numeric arrays but can't seem to find a function that does this.

Am I missing a more obvious way to do it quickly?

Thanks

Jim


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 01:31:12 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 05:31:12 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<oij4f.11011$vD4.616767@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F154903884castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>> "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Eventually the hope is that your OS and browser
>>> will become the only means of accessing the internet. And if your OS
>>> and browser are the only way to access the Internet, who in their
>>> right mind would use another system?
>>
>> It's not happening, so what are you talking about? Any developer
>> hoping the above has no clue what he/she is developing.
> 
> What happened is irrelevant to what the desire was of M$ when it set
> out to take the browser market away from Netscape. When you control
> the OS market and make your browser a tied component of it and to the
> benefit of yourself only, you limit the ability of anyone else to
> compete. 
> 
> I'm still waiting for you to enlighten the rest of us as to the real
> reason, though.

The same reason why Google is into IM, GMail, WIFI, and many other things. 
And Apple into music, phones, you name it. Just don't bet on one horse.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From martijn at gamecreators.nl  Tue Oct  4 08:55:26 2005
From: martijn at gamecreators.nl (martijn at gamecreators.nl)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 05:55:26 -0700
Subject: ssh or other python editor
Message-ID: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

H!

I'm using a windows machine.
And a FreeBSD server where I run my python scripts.

I'm working/making my python scripts in a windows OS with putty now.
But I really want the python text colors and tab spacing like the
python windows IDE but the problem is that I can't find a good program.

Thanks



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:42:03 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:42:03 -0700
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1914.1129055650.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1914.1129055650.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129056123.654224.18070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik,
  I now have this.

myapp.c
--------
#include <string.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include "Python.h"

int doStuff(const char *input, const char *d) { ... }

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
	// get the arguments from Python
	int result;
	char *input = 0;
	char *d = 0;
	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &input, &d);
	if (!ok) return 0;

	// make the function call
	result = doStfuff(input, d);

	// return the result
	return PyBuildValue("i", result);
}

static PyMethodDef functions[] =
{
	{"PyDoStuff", wrap_doStuff, METH_VARARGS, "some documentation"},
	{NULL, NULL}
};

extern PyMODINIT_FUNC initDLLTester(void)
{
    Py_InitModule4(
        "DLLTester", functions, "my doStfuff function", NULL,
PYTHON_API_VERSION
        );

}

...when I try to compile in Visual C++ 6, I get

Linking...
   Creating library Release/DLLTester.lib and object
Release/DLLTester.exp
test.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _PyBuildValue
Release/DLLTester.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
Error executing link.exe.

Any ideas what's happening here?

DLLTester.dll - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Java and Swing wrote:
>
> > So is "module.c" a new C file or do I add it to my existing, myapp.c?
>
> it's a complete module.  if you want it to do something other than printing
> the arguments, replace the "do stuff" section with your own code.  if you
> want to call it something else, rename it.  if you want to change the API,
> change it.  it's not that large; you should be able to figure out what it does
> and how it does it in no time at all.
> 
> </F>



From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  7 02:02:36 2005
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (mirandacascade at yahoo.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 23:02:36 -0700
Subject: where to find information about errors/exceptions in socket.py
Message-ID: <1128663897.741141.241490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Version of python: 2.4
O/S: Win2K

I will be writing some python scripts to do some client-side
programming that involves socket.py.  I expect that I will be making
calls to the following methods/functions:

connect_ex()
setsockopt()
sendall()
recv()
close()

Where can one find information about whether the functions/methods
above return error codes that provide some indication as to whether the
function/method succeeded?  Is there an exception class for handling
exceptions raised in socket.py?  If so, where can one find information
about it?

I consulted the docstrings and didn't find much about return codes or
exception classes.  Also looked at the Lutz "Programming Python"
text...it devotes several pages to socket programming, but I didn't
observe much with regard to error/exception handling.



From sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr  Sat Oct 22 05:27:16 2005
From: sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?iso-8859-1?Q?Th=E9nault?=)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:27:16 +0200
Subject: [ANN] ASTNG 0.13
Message-ID: <20051022092716.GB2651@logilab.fr>

I'm please to announce the release of the Logilab's ASTNG package.
This package has been extracted from the logilab-common package, which
will be kept for some time for backward compatibility but will no
longer be maintained (this explains that this package is starting with
the 0.13 version number, since the fork occurs with the version
released in logilab-common 0.12).
See below for a description of what's inside...

What's new ?
------------
* .locals  and .globals on scoped node handle now a list of references
  to each assigment statements instead of a single reference to the
  first assigment statement.

* fix bug with manager.astng_from_module_name when a context file is
  given (notably fix ZODB 3.4 crash with pylint/pyreverse)
	
* fix Compare.as_string method
	
* fix bug with lambda object missing the "type" attribute

* some minor refactoring


What is astng ?
---------------
The aim of this module is to provide a common base representation of
python source code for projects such as pychecker, pyreverse,
pylint... Well, actually the development of this library is essentialy
governed by pylint's needs.

It extends class defined in the compiler.ast module with some
additional methods and attributes. Instance attributes are added by a
builder object, which can either generate extended ast (let's call
them astng ;) by visiting an existant ast tree or by inspecting living
object. Methods are added by monkey patching ast classes.


Home page
---------
http://www.logilab.org/projects/astng

Download
--------
ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/astng

Mailing list
------------
mailto://python-projects at lists.logilab.org

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Oct  8 09:01:15 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Oct 2005 13:01:15 +0000
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y8542mec.fsf@pobox.com>

"Alex" <lidenalex at yahoo.se> writes:

> My native language is not English so I just wonder how you pronounce
> wxPython.
> 
> vi-ex python
> double-you-ex python
> wax-python
> 
> or something else

I'm sure you'll get five different answers.

Personally, I say the 'wx' bit as 'wooks' (like 'books' in Southern
England pronunciation, ie. short 'oo').

Qt --> 'cute'

Tk --> 'tick'

Gtk --> I can't write this one down...


John



From tziade at nuxeo.com  Tue Oct 18 03:30:49 2005
From: tziade at nuxeo.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:30:49 +0200
Subject: Don't want to serialize a variable of object
In-Reply-To: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D77@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D77@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <4354A4A9.7090900@nuxeo.com>

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:

>Hi,
>I got a class which I need to serialize, except for couple of variable.
>i.e.
>
>import cPickle as p
>class Color:
>    def __init__(self):
>        print "hello world"
>        self.x=10
>        self.somechar="this are the characters"
>color=Color()
>f=file('poem.txt', 'w')
>p.dump(color, f)
>f.close()
>
>How do I serialize the object color without serializing the x and
>somechar variables?
>Is there any modifier which prevents the variable from being serialized.
>  
>
You can create your own serialization process, by providing some kind of 
serialize() method
 in a base class that would dump part of the object.

Let's say, the instance __dict__ dictionnary ?
this serialize method can then remove the attributes that starts with '_v_'
(that's what we do in Zope to avoid pickling some attribute)

>
>
>
>Another question:
>	Is there a concept of private variables?
>  
>
That's a long discussion, you should look at the archives in the list.

But anyway, all attributes that starts with '__' are considered private 
to the class.
(ie: can't be reached by "instance.__attribute")

even though you can find it if you dig into instance.__dict__


Regards,

Tarek



From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 19:03:24 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 23:03:24 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> 
> "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
> news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
> 
>> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
>> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
>> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
> 
>     It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
>     applications that 
> work in any browser on any OS threaten to make it irrelevent what OS
> you're running.

And it's even easier to understand that your statement is nonsense.

It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the Linux 
kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same results. Yet people 
seem to prefer one distribution over one other.

> MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important
> to be running on one of their OSes.

Maybe *they* do have a point :-).

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Mon Oct 24 08:52:45 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:52:45 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<djgm3n$k13$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <xO47f.174444$RW.76779@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
 
> <axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk> wrote in message 
> news:3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922 at fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
 
>> In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
 
>>>> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
>>>> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
>>>> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
>>>> property, only they call it "property tax".
 
>>>    I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to
>>> live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me
>>> know.
 
>> Why would you say that - Mike Meyer made a point to which you have
>> obviously no answer. Or do you deny that his comments on this matter
>> of property are true?
 
>    His comments are not applicable to America. They are applicable to a 
> country where the government owns the economy.
 
>    No reply is needed to his comments except to point out that they only 
> apply to a communist or totalitarian state. We don't have one here, so his 
> argument doesn't apply.

The last time I looked, property taxes were enforced in many states of
the USA. Do you deny this?
 
>    I am not saying "because you are a communist, your argument is wrong". I 
> am saying, "because your argument is based upon communist or totalitarian 
> premises about the relationship between the government and the economy, it 
> does not apply to the United States, and we were talking about the United 
> States."
 
Then you are sadly deluded if you think that the US government does not
make decisions on the economy.

Axel


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 04:59:24 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 08:59:24 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhfs9k$mgq$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1144.1128005087.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndjpqpa.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.09.30.11.57.22.840000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndk1snc.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-09-30, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:37:14 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Well I have the following reasons not to like the current python way:
>> 
>> 1) Beginning all your private variables with an underscore is like
>> starting all your integers with an 'i' or all your dictionary with
>> a 'd' etc.
>
> Three points:
>
> (1) It is utterly pointless in a statically typed language like C to name
> integer variables starting with an i, because both you and the compiler
> already know it is an integer. However, in a dynamically typed language
> like Python, it may in some circumstances make sense, since you have no
> other clue as to the expected type of object a variable has.
>
> (Descriptive names like "arglist" are better, but when the descriptive
> name is ambiguous, or there is no sensible descriptive name, this
> convention can be helpful.)

I don't think such a convention is that helpfull. 

> (2) Hungarian notation wasn't supposed to be about starting integer
> variables' names with an i, that was a misunderstanding of the Microsoft
> OS division. See here for further details:
>
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html

Nice article and I think such conventions are indeed very helpfull,
but we are not talking that kind of convention here. Take a statement
like below:

  _var1 = var2

You can't infer that this is wrong because one starts with an '_'
and the other doesn't.

> (3) Let's do a small thought experiment. Suppose that Python introduces
> "real" private variables. Now that Python has private variables, tens of
> thousands of C++ and Java developers immediately rush to use Python in
> huge collaborative projects. You're working on one of these huge projects,
> and reading the source code to a class that takes 45 pages for its
> definition. You're on page 33, and you see these lines:
>
>     # cache the expensive lookup for extra speed
>     usercache = self.longcomplexcalculation()
>
> "Ahah!" you say to yourself, "That's exactly what I need to make my code
> run faster. Instead of calling Klass.longcomplexcalculation() every time I
> need it, I can just look at usercache."
>
> Quick: was usercache a private variable? How can you tell, short of
> searching through those 45 pages of code? You can't.

What's the problem, my editor will find that soon enough.

> Of course, in real Python, as soon as you see _usercache with a leading
> underscore, you know it is a private variable, and you don't have to
> search the source code to find out. So that's an advantage to the
> existing Python system.

But you don't know if it is a private variable of this module or a
private variable imported from another module. So you don't know
if it is something that you can touch freely but clients should
be cautious about or something you should be cautious about.

So take a module with tens of private variables, which are
the one that are imported and which are the local ones. You can
search all those pages too.

> It seems to me that much of this argument is about terminology, not
> reality. We've made a mistake in describing Python as "not having private
> variables, only semi-private by convention". Bad bad bad. 
>
> What we should have said is that Python DOES have private variables. In
> the same way that Python forces you to use a consistent indentation
> scheme, Python forces you to name all your private attributes with a
> leading underscore. And just like C++ lets you sneakily access private
> variables by defining private as public, so Python lets you sneakily
> access private variables by mangling the name.

But private variable are not mangled. Just putting one underscore is
apparantlty enough to flag a variable a private, but you need two
starting underscores for name mangling. At least that is how I
understand:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011600000000000000000

> Then we'd all be happy, the language zealots would take note that Python's
> implementation of private variables has a gotcha to watch out for, and
> we'd all be happy.
>
>
>> 2) The editor and font I use make it hard to see underscores. They
>> usually seem to belong more to the line below than to the actual
>> lines.
>
> That's a bug in the editor/font combination. I've seen some versions of
> Abiword cut off the bottom pixel from lines, including underscores. If
> your editor made y look like v or u, you'd call it a bug, and if it makes
> an underscore disappear or look like part of the next line, that's a bug
> too. (Just like Ariel has the bug that the letters r n together look like
> the letter m. darn vs dam.

IMO that an underscore looks like it belong to the next line is not a
bug. An underscore doesn't belong to this line, it belongs under it.

>> My idea as somekind of compromise between what happens in languages
>> like C++ and currently in python would be the following:
>> 
>> 1) Allow keywords like private (or implemetation) to mark certain
>> variables, functions or classes as an implementation detail.
>> Personnally I would prefer the opposite such as a interface
>> to mark objects which are not private, but that would break too
>> much code.
>> 
>> 2) Allow the client access to these private variables, through
>> a special construct. Maybe instead of "from ... import ..."
>> "from ... spy ...".
>
> What you are suggesting is that you have private variables that are only
> private by convention, since anyone can simply call use spy to treat
> them as public. In other words, no different from what Python already
> does, except it avoids underscores and introduces at least one new keyword
> (spy) and one new syntax element (something to flag a variable as private).
>
> Yeah, that will make a huge difference.

IMO this convention doesn't make sense, because it doesn't distinghuish
between private variables of this module, which the developer is freely
to use however it fits and private variables from other modules you
should be cautious about. With my suggestion it would be easier to
use a convention like:

  from module spy var as _var


This would would make the '_' much more usefull as a flag, because it
would now stand for an imported private variable.

-- 
Antoon Pardon




From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 22:46:27 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:46:27 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     If you want to sell meals with Whoppers in them, you have to get
>> permission to do so from Burger King corporate. And they will not
>> let you also sell Big Macs in the same store, even if McDonald's had
>> no objection.

> Why do you keep comparing Microsoft with Burger King?  They are not
> the same.  Burger King is operating in a competitive environment.
> Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopolist.  Monopolists are not
> allowed to do the same things that competitors are allowed to do.
> So, your observations about Burger King are irrelevant to Microsoft.

    Because the error I'm correcting is the belief that Microsoft's conduct 
was extremely unusual (unlike anything any reputable company had ever done, 
essentially). I understand that people think it was wrong because it was 
specifically Microsoft that did it and the specific circumstances they were 
in with respect to their market. I've addressed that in other parts of this 
thread.

    DS




From jmeile at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 10 12:20:04 2005
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:20:04 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <die0mh$4ts$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<die0mh$4ts$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <434A94B4.8080904@hotmail.com>

> Anyone know of a simple ssl api in python :-)
Perhaps pow may help:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pow

or pyopenssl:
http://pyopenssl.sourceforge.net/

Regards,
Josef



From netvaibhav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 15:35:32 2005
From: netvaibhav at gmail.com (netvaibhav at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 12:35:32 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I think implementing a finite state automaton would be a good (best?)
solution. I have drawn a FSM for you (try viewing the following in
fixed width font). Just increment the count when you reach state 5.

                    <---------------|
                   |                |
        0      0   |  1      0      |0
 -->[1]--->[2]--->[3]--->[4]--->[5]-|
     ^ |    |      ^ |     |      |
    1| |<---|      | |     |1     |1
     |_|    1      |_|     |      |
     ^             0       |      |
     |---------------------|<-----|

If you don't understand FSM's, try getting a book on computational
theory (the book by Hopcroft & Ullman is great.)

Here you don't have special cases whether reading in blocks or reading
whole at once (as you only need one byte at a time).

Vaibhav



From no at spam  Wed Oct  5 15:40:29 2005
From: no at spam (Mike)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:40:29 -0400
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1566.1128539624.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>	<di0rmd$uln$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>	<1128538344.802444@nntp.acecape.com>
	<mailman.1566.1128539624.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128541211.632803@nntp.acecape.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

>>>
> You must be doing *something* wrong:
> 
>  >>> link = 
> "/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&amp;amp;storyID=2005-10-05T151245Z_01_HO548006_RTRUKOC_0_UK-AIRLINES-BA.xml" 
> 
>  >>> link = link.replace('&amp;amp;','&')
>  >>> link
> '/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID=2005-10-05T151245Z_01_HO548006_RTRUKOC_0_UK-AIRLINES-BA.xml' 
> 
>  >>>
> 
> regards
>  Steve

What you and I typed was ascii. The value of link came from importing 
that utf-8 web page into that variable.  That is why I think it is not 
working.  But not sure what the solution is.


From p at ulmcnett.com  Fri Oct 21 15:30:47 2005
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:30:47 -0700
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
In-Reply-To: <kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <435941E7.6070806@ulmcnett.com>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> PS: If my question is not clear, I am trying to "share" the form between the
> client and server.
> 
> just as many sites out there allow you to modify existing data:
> 1) the server pops up a form with your data in it.
> 2) the client can modify it and submit.
> 
> I know this is a _basic_ question, sorry.

When debugging Python cgi scripts, it is helpful to run the scripts from a
command line just to make sure there aren't any compiler errors. Depending on
how the server is set up, you'll get a server error or just a blank page if your
script won't compile. When I run your script directly as I suggest, here's what
I get:

pmcnett at sol:~$ python test.py
   File "test.py", line 23
     <html>
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

D'oh! You needed to surround the html with quotes to make it a string, as in:

print """
<html>
...
</html>
"""

I don't really understand your original problem, but perhaps this will help get
you rolling again.


-- 
Paul McNett
http://paulmcnett.com
http://dabodev.com




From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 12:41:54 2005
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 09:41:54 -0700
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2415.1130001399.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129761106.725465.42290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2415.1130001399.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130172114.746051.242780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> the page was written before the "type/class unification" in Python 2.2,
> at a time where the word "type" had a stricter meaning (referring to C-
> level types, not user-level classes).

Gotcha.  Thanks.

That writeup is definitely on my required reading list for new Python
programmers.



From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Thu Oct 13 17:19:00 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:19:00 -0700
Subject: Nufox examples hosted :-)
Message-ID: <1129238340.814966.326060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I've been kindly authorized to host Nufox examples for free on :
http://bsd.miki.eu.org:9090/

Regards



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 19:36:22 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:36:22 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Paul Watson <pwatson at redlinepy.com> wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> 
> > In today's implementations of Classic Python, yes.  In other equally
> > valid implementations of the language, such as Jython, IronPython, or,
> > for all we know, some future implementation of Classic, that may well
> > not be the case.  Many, quite reasonably, dislike relying on a specific
> > implementation's peculiarities, and prefer to write code that relies
> > only on what the _language_ specs guarantee.
> 
> How could I identify when Python code does not close files and depends on
> the runtime to take care of this?  I want to know that the code will work
> well under other Python implementations and future implementations which may
> not have this provided. 

Then you should use try/finally (to have your code run correctly in all
of today's implementations; Python 2.5 will have a 'with' statement to
offer nicer syntax sugar for that, but it will be a while before all the
implementations get around to adding it).

If you're trying to test your code to ensure it explicitly closes all
files, you could (from within your tests) rebind built-ins 'file' and
'open' to be a class wrapping the real thing, and adding a flag to
remember if the file is open; at __del__ time it would warn if the file
had not been explicitly closed.  E.g. (untested code):

import __builtin__
import warnings

_f = __builtin__.file
class testing_file(_f):
  def __init__(self, *a, **k):
     _f.__init__(self, *a, **k)
    self._opened = True
  def close(self):
    _f.close(self)
    self._opened = False
  def __del__(self):
    if self._opened:
       warnings.warn(...)
       self.close()

__builtin__.file = __builtin__.open = testing_file



Alex


From al at none.fr  Sun Oct  9 09:50:40 2005
From: al at none.fr (al)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:50:40 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1788.1128853739.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>	<4348e72f$0$11133$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1788.1128853739.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43491faf$0$11131$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

> It seems to me that what you proposed was a "solution", that seems 
> obvious only to you, to a problem perceived only by you.
> 
> I am afraid you would have to work rather harder to persuade me that 
> there is a problem, let alone that you have found the solution to it.

Hello, I never said there is a problem, since you can do whithout it. I 
just said that in some cases, it's better and cleaner to do it in 
another way, and also that this solution is a complement : it does not 
replace or break nothing.

Regards,
Al


From tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu  Sun Oct  9 18:42:18 2005
From: tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:42:18 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<llrik1ph4mpkud83t9qpnjks533vpkv24e@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.22.49.29.840592@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <20051010004218.03171fb6.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:49:32 +1000
Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:28:31 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:
> 
> > What if I am sending diagrams to help someone repair
> > their computer? It is ridiculous to tie people's arms behind their
> > backs.  What you do instead is work to prevent abuse.  Captions in
> > and of themselves are not dangerous things.
> 
> I didn't say they were. Obviously you haven't been reading my emails,
> just reacting against them mindlessly. I use a mail client that gives
> me the choice of displaying or not displaying HTML emails. If there
> is no alternative to HTML, then I may _choose_ to render the HTML.

Norm Reitzel said it all a while ago:

"I don't understand that attitude.  Don't we want email that has dancing
 bears, cute little videos, musical tunes, animated waving hands, sixty
 fonts, and looks like it's been done with crayolas? Good grief, man,
 think like a three year old!" 

-- 
Stefaan
-- 
As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning,
and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh 


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Mon Oct 10 03:45:40 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:45:40 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
Message-ID: <434A1C24.4000100@designaproduct.biz>

Odd-R. wrote:

>I have to lists, A and B, that may, or may not be equal. If they are not 
>identical, I want the output to be three new lists, X,Y and Z where X has 
>all the elements that are in A, but not in B, and Y contains all the 
>elements that are B but not in A. Z will then have the elements that are 
>in both A and B.
>  
>
These are set operations.

>One way of doing this is of course to iterate throug the lists and compare 
>each of the element, but is there a more efficient way?
>  
>
Maybe, using sets?

L1 = [1,2,3,4]
L2=[3,4,5,6]
diff1 = list(set(L1)-set(L2))           # [1,2]
diff2 = list(set(L2)-set(L1))           # [5,6]
symdiff = diff1+diff2                     # Symmetric difference [1,2,5,6]
intersect = set(L1+L2) - set(symdiff) # Intersect [3,4]

Best,

   Les



From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 06:55:17 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 03:55:17 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130237717.557334.277910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

No limitation at all would be best. If a limitation is necessary, then
the more capturing groups, the better. At the time being, I would be
really happy about having the possibility to use 10000 capturing
groups.

J?rg



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 13:20:50 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:20:50 -0700
Subject: scipy.plt legend?
In-Reply-To: <1129046539.630460.326290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129046539.630460.326290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <digs9k$4hs$1@sea.gmane.org>

gurkesaft wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone know how to use scipy.plt?  The documentation is wrong or
> out of date at the scipy website, and I can't join their mailing lists
> for some reason.
> 
> Most importantly, I need to be able to make and manipulate a legend.
> The scipy.plt.legend('whatever') command doesn't seem to exist.  I
> can't even get started!

scipy.plt is incredibly obsolete, unmaintained, and deprecated. Don't
use it. Please use matplotlib instead:

  http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Oct  5 09:51:25 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:51:25 -0500
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <4343D5AE.2000601@gmail.com>
References: <200510041122.25067.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>
	<20051004190827.3914.1498135555.divmod.quotient.23977@ohm>
	<mailman.1468.1128460022.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4343D5AE.2000601@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051005135125.GC13147@unpythonic.net>

Interesting.  I'd noticed that the metaclass one didn't crash my 2.2, but I
didn't check the marshal one.

This one core dumps in 'Python 2.2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2003, 19:13:11) ... linux2'
but inexplicably prints 'keys' when I ran it on the 2.4.1 I used in my last
post.

>>> import marshal
>>> f = lambda: None
>>> d = marshal.dumps(f.func_code).replace('\0\0S', '~~S')
>>> f.func_code = marshal.loads(d)
>>> f()

This crashes both my 2.2.2 and 2.4.1:
>>> import marshal
>>> f = lambda: None
>>> d = marshal.dumps(f.func_code).replace('\0\0S', '\xff\xffS')
>>> f.func_code = marshal.loads(d)
>>> f()

Jeff
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From jadedgamer at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 16 03:50:50 2005
From: jadedgamer at hotmail.com (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 09:50:50 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
	<8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <uoe5p99yd.fsf@hotmail.com>

John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> writes:

> In 1986?  That would be version 3.  I have MS-DOS 3.10 (Victor/Sirius
> version corresponding to 3.1 for x86) dated 1986.

Yes, a better example of existing platforms (when PC-DOS 1.0 was
shipped with IBM's PCs) is CP/M, which QDOS -> PCDOS -> MSDOS was a
bastardized clone of.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 15:42:15 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:42:15 +0100
Subject: Threads and socket.setdefaulttimeout
In-Reply-To: <1129142005.610543.212180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128030031.130958.185620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1238.1128067318.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129142005.610543.212180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dijoun$tfi$1@sea.gmane.org>

Russell Warren wrote:
> It appears that the timeout setting is contained within a process
> (thanks for the confirmation), but I've realized that the function
> doesn't play friendly with threads.  If I have multiple threads using
> sockets and one (or more) is using timeouts, one thread affects the
> other and you get unpredictable behavior sometimes.  I included a short
> script at the end of this that demonstrates the threading problem.
> 
When you say "one thread affects another", I see that your example uses 
the same function for both threads. IMHO it's much better to override 
the thread's run() method than to provide a callable at thread creating 
time. That way you can be sure each thread's execution is firmly in the 
context of the particular thread instance's namespace.

having said all this, I don't think that's your issue.

> I'm trying to get around this by forcing all locations that want to set
> a timeout to use a 'safe' call immediately prior to socket creation
> that locks out setting the timeout again until the lock is released.
> Something like this:
> 
> try:
>   SafeSetSocketTimeout(Timeout_s)
>   #lock currently acquired to prevent other threads sneaking in here
>   CreateSocket()
> finally:
>   ReleaseSocketTimeoutSettingLock()
> UseSocket()
> 
This seems extremely contorted, and I'm pretty sure we can find a better 
way.

> However - this is getting increasingly painful because I don't have
> easy access to all of the socket creations where I'd like to do this.
> The biggest pain right now is that I'm using xmlrpclib which has some
> seriously/frustratingly heavy use of __ prefixes that makes getting
> inside to do this at socket creation near impossible (at least I think
> so).  Right now the best I can do is surround the xmlrpclib calls with
> this (effectively putting the lock release after the UseSocket), but
> then other threads get hung up for the duration of the call or timeout,
> rather than just the simple socket creation.
> 
The threads' network calls should be yielding process control during 
their timeout period to allow other runnable threads to proceed. That's 
how it's always worked for me, anyway, and I've written an email sender 
with 200 parallel threads.

> It would be nice if the timeout were implemented as an argument in the
> socket constructor rather than having this global method.  Is there a
> reason for this?  I tried sifting through the cvs source and got lost -
> couldn't even find the call definition for socket(family, type, proto)
> and gave up...
> 
You are aware, I presume, that you can set a timeout on each socket 
individually using its settimeout() method?

> Does anybody have any idea of another way to do what I need (indpendent
> socket timeouts per thread), or have suggestions on how to break into
> xmlrpclib (actually down into httplib) to do the methdo I was trying?
> 
See above. However, this *does* require you to have access to the 
sockets, which is tricky if they are buried deep in some opaque object's 
methods.

> Related question: Is there some global way that I'm unaware of to make
> it so that some few lines of code are atomic/uninterruptable and no
> other thread can sneak in between?
> 
There are locks! I suspect what you need is a threading.Rlock object, 
that a thread has to hold to be able to modify the (global) default 
timeout. This isn't a full solution to your problem, though, as you have 
correctly deduced.

The problem arises when a single method call creates a socket and then 
tries to do something with it (like connect to a remote server), which 
*is* problematic. I have to say that I haven't ever used different 
timeout values for the sockets in different parallel threads, so this is 
a new problem to me.

> All suggestions appreciated!  Hopefully I'm just missing something
> obvious.
> 
> Russ
> 
> #--- This script confirms that settimeout's affect is across threads
> import threading, xmlrpclib, socket
> 
> def st():
>   socket.setdefaulttimeout(0.1)
> 
> try:
>   proxy = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:10000")
>   print proxy.NonExistentCallThatShouldTimeout()
> except Exception, E:  print "Exception caught: %s" % (E,)
> 
> cbThread = threading.Thread(target = st)
> cbThread.start()
> 
> try:
>   print proxy.NonExistentCallThatShouldTimeout()
> except Exception, E:  print "Exception caught: %s" % (E,)
> 
> #Output is:
> #Exception caught: (10061, 'Connection refused')
> #Exception caught: timed out
> 
Here (unless I'm missing something obvious) it seems that your worker 
thread terminates immediately after setting the default timeout, and 
both of the proxy calls are made from the main thread, so I'm not 
particularly surprised at the results, given the global nature of the 
default socket timeout.

Maybe someone else can think of something that will help.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 22:35:47 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:35:47 -0700
Subject: A Logging System for Python
In-Reply-To: <GJY4f.1929$dO2.1684@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
References: <GJY4f.1929$dO2.1684@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <dj1n23$4j9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I have been looking for a logging system and have come across
> http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html.
> 
> As the site refers to PEP 282, I assume this package is a potential
> contender for integration in the Python distribution.
> 
> Am I correct and if so is there any trend to include it in Python 2.5 ?

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-logging.html

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 14:27:14 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:27:14 -0600
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2208.1129627807.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>	<4354b324$0$21023$636a55ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2208.1129627807.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ev-dnaho8bcco8jeRVn-jw@comcast.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> ## my silly example
> class ObserverProperty(property):
>     def __init__(self,name,observers=None,validator=None):
>         self._name = name
>         self._observers = observers or []
>         self._validator = validator or (lambda x: x)
>         self._pName = '_' + name
>         property.__init__(self,
>                 fset=lambda inst, value: self.__notify_fset(inst,value),
>                 )
> 
>     def __notify_fset(self,inst,value):
>         value = self._validator(value)
>         for obs in self._observers:
>             obs(inst,self._pName,value)
>         inst.__dict__[self._pName] = value
> 
>     def add(self,obs):
>         self._observers.append(obs)
> 
> def obs0(inst,pName,value):
>     print 'obs0', inst, pName, value
> 
> def obs1(inst,pName,value):
>     print 'obs1', inst, pName, value
> 
> class A(object):
>     x = ObserverProperty('x')
> 
> a=A()
> A.x.add(obs0)
> 
> a.x = 3
> 
> b = A()
> b.x = 4
> 
> #I wish I could get b to use obs1 instead of obs0
> #without doing the following
> class B(A):
>     x = ObserverProperty('x',observers=[obs1])
> 
> b.__class__ = B
> 
> b.x = 7

Can you add the object to be observed as another parameter to the add 
method?

py> class ObservableProperty(property):
...     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
...         super(ObservableProperty, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
...         self._observers = {}
...     def __set__(self, obj, value):
...         super(ObservableProperty, self).__set__(obj, value)
...         for observer in self._observers.get(obj, []):
...             observer(obj)
...     def add(self, obj, observer):
...         self._observers.setdefault(obj, []).append(observer)
...
py> class A(object):
...     def _getx(self):
...         return self._x
...     def _setx(self, value):
...         self._x = value
...     x = ObservableProperty(_getx, _setx)
...
py> def obs1(obj):
...     print 'obs1:', obj.x
...
py> def obs2(obj):
...     print 'obs2:', obj.x
...
py> a = A()
py> a.x = 3
py> A.x.add(a, obs1)
py> a.x = 4
obs1: 4
py> A.x.add(a, obs2)
py> a.x = 5
obs1: 5
obs2: 5
py> b = A()
py> b.x = 6
py> A.x.add(b, obs2)
py> b.x = 7
obs2: 7

Probably "self._observers" should use some sort of weakref dict instead 
of a regular dict, but hopefully the idea is clear.

STeVe


From lbolognini at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 01:38:59 2005
From: lbolognini at gmail.com (lbolognini at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 22:38:59 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130638902.048806.183580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<cJ6dndyixeVLqfneRVn-iw@powergate.ca>
	<1130647542.669549.300360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130650739.826914.255090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> I find this style of coding repulsive when compared to:
>
> def foo(arg1=None, arg2=None):
>     print dict(arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)
>
> I don't understand what added value all of those extra, contorted lines
> are supposed to bring to the party.

Hi Alex,

the thing is that I have about 30 parameters to pass to a method and I
wanted to have a cleaner way to deal with it than just declaring them
all as arguments: hence **kwargs and all that mess ;-)

I was thinking to declare the a list of valid and expected parameters
in a module and then import * and run my checks against it. Since this
stuff is being posted by a web form I also need to deal with checkbox
not being posted if not checked which lead me to:

for name in expected_form1_kwargs:
    if name not in kwargs:
        kwargs[name]=None

Lorenzo



From http  Mon Oct 17 15:41:32 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 12:41:32 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Michael Ekstrand <mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov> writes:
> > 2) Keybindings in a web application
> 
> Not sure here, but JavaScript may be able to do something to accomplish 
> some of this. A web-delivered XUL app can definitely do this. But 
> that's pushing the limits of what can be considered a web application.

All this extreme use of JS misses the point, it's client side
programming all over again, not really what most of us think of as a
web interface which puts all the hair on the server side.  If you want
to program on the client, why not use a reasonable language like
Python instead of a monstrosity like JS?


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 14 12:04:01 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:04:01 +0200
Subject: Problems with properties
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <dioksg$7jb$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Schneider wrote:

> Rather then dispatching the property assignment to setNothing, the
> property object is being replaced with a string.

properties are for newstyle classes only (i. e. classes that inherit from
object).

from unittest import TestCase
import unittest

class Task(object):
    def __init__(self,command):
        self._command = command

    def setNothing(self, value):
        raise AttributeError

    def getCommand(self):
        return self._command

    command=property(getCommand, setNothing)
    # or just
    # command=property(getCommand)


class taskTest(TestCase):

     def testTask(self):
         t = Task("dir c:")
         c = t.command
         self.assertEquals("dir c:", c)

         def set():
             t.command = "foo Bar"
         self.assertRaises(AttributeError, set)

         self.assertEquals("dir c:", t.command)



if __name__ == "__main__":
     unittest.main()

Peter


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 08:52:30 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:52:30 +0100
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A3@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[Sybren Stuvel]

[Tim Golden]
> > It's obvious that everyone has a different way of working, and that
> > I'm more comfortable in Windows because all sorts of small
> > familiarities

> So what I read in your post is that you simply don't want to leave
> your familiar environment. Fair enough.

Well yes. I think the (only slightly) wider point I was
making was that -- despite goodwill and several attempts 
on my part -- Linux still has not overpowered me with its
usefulness. Extending from this, where I am someone who's
a competent computer user (indeed, a professional software
developer of some years' standing) and who has honestly 
tried, it seems that switching to Linux is not quite such 
a no-brainer as people sometimes make out.

Just occasionally you read posts from people who say
(synthesised) "The Windows command line is rubbish",
"Windows crashes all the time", "All Windows machines
are overrun with adware and generate spam willy-nilly".
And you just wonder whether such people have actually
*used* a properly set up Windows machine recently.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Oct 29 12:20:38 2005
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:20:38 -0000
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de> <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com>
	<4363887f$0$459$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <1130602837.837709@yasure>

Quoth Pierre Hanser <hanser at club-internet.fr>:
| Grant Edwards a ?crit :
|> On 2005-10-29, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:
|>>>>>>>"g.franzkowiak" <g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de> (gf) wrote:
|>>
|>>>gf> If starts a process with popen2.popen3('myprogram') and myprogram.exe is
|>>>gf> running before, I've a connection to the second process, not to the first.
|>>>gf> I can find the process by name before I start a process with popen2...,
|>>>gf> but how bcan I connect t this process with a pipe ?
|>>
|>>You have to use a named pipe.
|> 
|> 
|> That would require that the application know about the named
|> pipe and open it.  I don't think there is any way to swap a
|> pipe in for stdin/stdout once a process is running.
|> 
| in C: freopen

Hello, it seems fairly clear that the stdin/stdout in question belongs
to another process, which cannot be instructed at this point to execute
freopen().  If there's a way to do this, it will be peculiar to the
platform and almost certainly not worth the effort.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct 22 23:24:21 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:24:21 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.46.50.621450@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <rg0ml19oupf2th80m4kramre02ejpi81vo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:46:53 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>
>Or would you like to suggest that Microsoft's board of directors should be
>allowed carte blache to break any law, commit any deed, so long as it
>makes Microsoft money? 

Why should the standards of acceptable conduct be any lower for groups
of people (namely corporations) than individuals?

It would be like excusing bad behaviour based on other group
memberships such as churches or gangs.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From apgwoz at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 07:51:14 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:51:14 -0400
Subject: divide
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510061933t58bffe8ai5f32b0e08ff9037d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510061933t58bffe8ai5f32b0e08ff9037d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <163A9425-B814-425F-8DE8-00021C68024B@gmail.com>

Do the divisions have to be themselves rectangles?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x____________B_____C_______x
x_____A____________________x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

would be a representation of the problem?
However, though, I think that what you mean with your Points being  
smaller and things, is that the points are centered in the middle of  
their peice of the rectangle, whichs makes the problem really easy.
If that is the case, notice that:
         width of Rectangle A =  2 * the_x_coordinate_ofA
  Subsequent widths can be found by subtracting the left side of the  
rectangle from the equation above. This is modified as follows

        width of Rectangle X = 2 * the_x_coordinate_ofX - width_so_far

The height of your rectangles will all be the same (if i read the  
question right), so translating this to python is simple.






On Oct 6, 2005, at 10:33 PM, Shi Mu wrote:

> I have three points in a rectangle and i wonder how to use PYTHON  
> to divide the rectangle into three
> parts with each point located in the different part.
> For instance, Point A
> goes to Part I, Point B goes to Part II and Point C goes to Part III.
> And the distance between any point within Part I and Point A is  
> smaller than to Point B and Point C. And the similar rule applies  
> to Part II and Part III.
> Thanks for any idea.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

---
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org




From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 09:15:18 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:15:18 +0100
Subject: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <1128515482.807324.265000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<di0c50$bab$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.1516.1128511183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128515482.807324.265000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0jku$3c7$2@sea.gmane.org>

Ben Sizer wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> 
>>it's also mentioned in chapter 4 of the tutorial:
>>
>>    http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006710000000000000000
>>
>>     "*Important warning*: The default value is evaluated only once. This
>>    makes a difference when the default is a mutable object such as a list,
>>    dictionary, or instances of most classes. "
> 
> 
> Perhaps it would be a good idea if Python actually raised a warning
> (SyntaxWarning?) if you use an unnamed list or dict as a default
> argument. This would doubtless help quite a few beginners. And for
> people who really do want that behaviour, working around the warning
> should involve minimal extra code, with extra clarity thrown in for
> free.
> 
This would have to be extended to any mutable object. How does the 
compiler know which objects are mutable?

This would not be a good change.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From hmcy2002 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 25 12:22:12 2005
From: hmcy2002 at yahoo.co.uk (Geirr)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:22:12 -0700
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <1130257332.726811.135510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi, ive just started playing around with python and wondered if someone
could poing me in the right way here.


I have a xmlrpc server simple script:

Server script:
import SimpleXMLRPCServer
class tpo:

	def retTPOXML():
		theFile=open('tpo.xml')
		try:
			self.strXML = theFile.read()
			return self.strXML
		finally:
			theFile.close()

tpo_object = tpo()
server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("localhost",8888))
server.register_instance(tpo_object)

print "Listening on port 8888"
server.serve_forever()

and im trying to print the return value with any luck

Client Code:
import xmlrpclib
server = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:8888")
current = server.retTPOXML
print current


Any comment would be appriciated



From david at jotax.com  Wed Oct 26 19:42:38 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 16:42:38 -0700
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <xMS7f.213858$p_1.122891@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4SM7f.4313$Zd.1145@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130342595.533405.191920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<xMS7f.213858$p_1.122891@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130370158.610870.297960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Sorry Ron,  my earlier reply was too brief I wasn't thinking straight
(so what else is new ;-) my apologies.  The main reason for going down
the route I am looking at (thread 2) is that intellisense runs OK in my
IDE using that aproach.

In my application this will be important as I will be using the IDE
(Wing) as a high level user editor in a limited code area.  The user
will need to see (hence the use of intellisense) which properties are
available for him to work with.

The second example you gave runs similar to the first, and
unfortunately the intellisense does not pick up available properties as
you go walk the dots.  Not suprisingly really as the class is dynamic
in the way it operates. It only see's the index property and the
showall function.

The code as you wrote it works fine though, and it is already salted
away in my meager (but growing) codebank.

Many thanks for your reply.



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 00:31:33 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:31:33 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86y85hp5y7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xfyrozxf0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86psqsq0jd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xhdc4vk23.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86ll1gpj7j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zi8i9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86ek73kyqi.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> >> Compile-time restrictions don't matter for squat - you need
>> >> serious restrictions on what the program can do at runtime.
>> > You need both.
>> Yup. Any language besides Java even *try* to provide both for a
>> production environment? 
> Yes.  Python tried.  It had a module called rexec for that purpose.
> I keep mentioning that, and you keep ignoring it.  Rexec was around
> for a long time, and was removed for technical reasons with some
> reluctance.  There is nothing un-Pythonic about the idea.

If you've mentioned it before, it wasn't to me. Or maybe my news
server dropped it. 

Rexec was removed because it didn't work. Just like bastion and every
other attempt to create a "safe" environment in Python. Any security
wonk worth his pay will tell you that you don't add security to
something after the fact if you want good security. You design it in
from the beginning.

Of course, what rexec tried to do and what "private" do are orthogonal
issues.

        <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 21:59:05 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 02:59:05 +0000
Subject: Does Asyncore Send require newline?
In-Reply-To: <f7d768310510311850u99221c5v633d902e34278399@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7d768310510311850u99221c5v633d902e34278399@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4366D9F9.8050608@holdenweb.com>

John W wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a test environment that consists of a server and an application that
> opens an asyncore socket and communicates with it.
> 
> In my application, on the handle_write call, if I do not append a "\n" to my
> message the server never gets the message. If I do append it, the server can
> read the message and act accordingly.
> 
> So my call looks like this:
> self.send( message] + "\n")
> 
> Is this how it was designed? Do you have to send a '\n' to have the data
> read? I can't find a whole lot of documentation on the send method.
> 
> If you could offer some help, I would appreciate it.
> 
The short answer to your question is "no, send() does not require 
newline". But much depends on your protocol design and on explicit 
details of your client and server software. You'd probably have to post 
a bit more code before we could say why you are seeing what you are seeing.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 03:57:35 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:57:35 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<uij533-fbp.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<epr0m1lq39pvrv2b2c9eslj4vitm55ffkj@4ax.com>
	<djq0oa$vng$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <j221m1htaa0k5l2islsmtjviblpv0se0t5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:48:25 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>> We are not talking about legal agreements. We are talking junior Mafia
>> style enforcement.
>
>    Can you cite any evidence of Microsoft actually using or threatening 
>force?

YES .  Have you not read a word I said.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Thu Oct 13 13:45:46 2005
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:45:46 +0100
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2019.1129225413.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2019.1129225413.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434e9d4b$0$32652$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>

Neal Becker wrote:
> I can do this with a generator:
> 
>     def integers():
>         x = 1
>         while (True):
>             yield x
>             x += 1
> 
> for i in integers(): 
> 
> Is there a more elegant/concise way?
> 

import itertools
for i in itertools.count():
	print i


Will McGugan
-- 
http://www.willmcgugan.com
"".join({'*':'@','^':'.'}.get(c,0) or chr(97+(ord(c)-84)%26) for c in 
"jvyy*jvyyzpthtna^pbz")


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Oct 15 22:24:52 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:24:52 -0500
Subject: dis.dis question
In-Reply-To: <4351affc.104308027@news.oz.net>
References: <rwT1f.138151$xl6.1729@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<aN72f.138292$xl6.19229@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<4351affc.104308027@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <17233.47604.113773.78543@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> I'm still looking for info on how to use disassemble_string().

How about this?

    >>> import dis
    >>> def f():
    ...   print "hello world"
    ... 
    >>> f.func_code.co_code
    'd\x01\x00GHd\x00\x00S'
    >>> dis.disassemble_string(f.func_code.co_code)
              0 LOAD_CONST          1 (1)
              3 PRINT_ITEM     
              4 PRINT_NEWLINE  
              5 LOAD_CONST          0 (0)
              8 RETURN_VALUE   

Skip


From jon_usenet at capisco.com  Fri Oct 14 12:11:04 2005
From: jon_usenet at capisco.com (jon)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: array subset could be improved? -repost ;)
In-Reply-To: <dioa3k$4g0$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
References: <dioa3k$4g0$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1129306264.568089.197320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Jim O'D wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I have an array a=array([2,3,-1]).
>
> I want to extract an array with all the elements of a that are less than 0.
>
> Method 1.
> new = array([i for i in a if i < 0])
>
> Method 2.
> new = a[nonzero(a<0)]
>
> I'm using Numeric arrays but can't seem to find a function that does this.
>
> Am I missing a more obvious way to do it quickly?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim



From saint.infidel at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 15:44:41 2005
From: saint.infidel at gmail.com (infidel)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:44:41 -0700
Subject: infinite cherrypy autoreloader loop
Message-ID: <1129751081.407613.289710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I did an "svn update" of cherrypy this morning, and now when I try
running a server, the log window just keeps reporting the autoreloader
restarting over and over:

2005/10/19 12:42:33 HTTP INFO SystemExit raised: shutting down
autoreloader
2005/10/19 12:42:33 HTTP INFO CherryPy shut down
2005/10/19 12:42:34 CONFIG INFO Server parameters:
2005/10/19 12:42:34 HTTP INFO SystemExit raised: shutting down
autoreloader
2005/10/19 12:42:34 HTTP INFO CherryPy shut down
2005/10/19 12:42:34 CONFIG INFO Server parameters:
2005/10/19 12:42:34 HTTP INFO SystemExit raised: shutting down
autoreloader
2005/10/19 12:42:34 HTTP INFO CherryPy shut down

It seemed to be working fine this morning.  Any ideas what I may have
done to cause this?



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Oct 19 11:33:24 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 08:33:24 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4n6ag.5uhq7a7xe1v4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86ach6y6ta.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4o6eo.4gi3s6xgesmzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2243.1129711362.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129736004.876031.44040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

[80/20 rule]

> This is as much an economic decision as a marketing one, but a good engineer
> knows instinctively that there is a desirable cut-off point beyond which
> adding further functionality is a waste of engineering effort.

But Mike Meyer's point was that the Web standards are designed to allow
fancy functionality where it's available but for the experience to
degrade gracefully where such functionality isn't available. For
example, you have all the "events module" attributes in XHTML, but take
away the events capability in the browser and there's a decent chance
for the semantics of the application to remain the same: no, you don't
get instant updates of the page when you select some menu item, but the
user can still have a similar experience which involves slightly more
inconvenience - they have to submit the page and get back an updated
version from the server.

It's misleading to claim that designing in such a way requires huge
additional development, especially since the standards are constructed
in such a way to facilitate such designs. It goes without saying that
implementing advanced functionality on Netscape 3.x and NCSA Mosaic
would be a costly and ultimately non-viable burden, but that isn't the
issue for many Web applications and wasn't the point being made.

Paul



From kent37 at tds.net  Tue Oct 18 10:41:48 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:41:48 -0400
Subject: unittest of file-reading function
In-Reply-To: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>
References: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>
Message-ID: <435507b9$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Helge Stenstroem wrote:
> Say I have a function
> 
> def f(filename):
>     result = openFileAndProcessContents(filename)
>     return result
> 
> Can that function be unit tested without having a real file as input?

If you can refactor openFileAndProcessContents() so it looks like this:
def openFileAndProcessContents(filename):
  data = open(filename).read()
  processContents(data)

then you can write your tests against processContents() and just pass it a string with the test data.

I usually have a set of test files as part of my project that I can pass to functions like this.

Kent


From noreply at gunnar.cc  Sat Oct 15 22:49:30 2005
From: noreply at gunnar.cc (Gunnar Hjalmarsson)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:49:30 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rdthnFj0uchU1@individual.net>

[ Followup-To set to the less inappropriate alt.religion ]

Xah Lee wrote:
> Microsoft Hatred, FAQ

Once again you fools have been tricked by the XL troll to hold an 
endless off-topic discussion in several groups.

-- 
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 12 10:28:57 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:28:57 +0200
Subject: Very dumb question
References: <mailman.1959.1129124379.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dij6ic$i64$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:

> I have a program with this code fragment:
> 
> print?len(data)
> print?data[:50]
> raise?SystemExit
> 
> This prints:
> 
> 20381
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
> 
> But if I change 50 to 51
> 
> print?len(data)
> print?data[:51]
> raise?SystemExit
> 
> then it prints
> 
> 20381
> !DOCTYPE?html?PUBLIC?"-//W3C//DTD?XHTML?1.1//EN"

The closest I can get to your situation is

[on linux]
>>> print "abc\rx"[:4]
abc
>>> print "abc\rx"[:5]
xbc

i. e. a character after a 'carriage return' ('\r') overwrites part of the
string which therefore doesn't seem to grow. Try 

print repr(data[:51]) 

to see what's really in your data string.

Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct  1 12:47:54 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:47:54 +0200
Subject: Help with syntax warnings
References: <mailman.1318.1128177219.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhmeje$7ob$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Ivan Shevanski wrote:

> Well I've been experimenting with the warning filter and it doesn't seem
> to be working. . .I think it has something to do with the fact that
> warnings are issued during the compiling and not during the excecution. .
> .So the filter would come in to late to block them? Any ideas?

$ cat syntaxwarning.py
def f():
    x = 42
    global x
$ python2.4 syntaxwarning.py
syntaxwarning.py:1: SyntaxWarning: name 'x' is assigned to before global
declaration
  def f():

Method 1: precompile the py-file and then invoke the compiled variant:

$ python2.4 -c 'import syntaxwarning'
syntaxwarning.py:1: SyntaxWarning: name 'x' is assigned to before global
declaration
  def f():
$ python2.4 syntaxwarning.pyc

Method 2: switch off the warning:

$ python2.4 -Wignore::SyntaxWarning syntaxwarning.py

Peter



From amk at amk.ca  Tue Oct 25 06:04:23 2005
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:04:23 -0400
Subject: Reminder: PyCon proposals due in a week
Message-ID: <20051025100423.GB4930@rogue.amk.ca>

The deadline for PyCon 2006 submissions is now only a week away.  
If you've been procrastinating about putting your outline together, 
now's the time to get going...

Call for Proposals: 
	http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/cfp

Proposal submission site:
	http://submit.python.org/

--amk


From mrosenstihl at macnews.de  Wed Oct 12 05:09:43 2005
From: mrosenstihl at macnews.de (Markus Rosenstihl)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:09:43 +0200
Subject: Nicer way of strip and replace?
References: <7xslv7d44n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <diijsm$cnk$04$1@news.t-online.com>

On 2005-10-12 01:29:28 +0200, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> said:
> 
> Oh cool.  I think you could even say:
> 
>    rechnung = list(read_file)
> 
> instead of the for loop.

Yes, that is working too.




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 01:16:40 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:16:40 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130207021.408597.322950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<tmh7f.213029$p_1.13670@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <435dbd8e.894214442@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:10:17 GMT, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

>Simon Burton wrote:
>
>> Yes!
>> 
>> I do this a lot when i have deeply nested function calls
>> a->b->c->d->e
>> and need to pass args  to the deep function without changing the
>> middle functions.
>
>Yes, :-)  Which is something like what I'm doing also.  Get the 
>dictionary, modify it or validate it somehow, then pass it on.  I also 
>find that when I'm passing variables as keywords,
>
>      foo(name=name, address=address, city=city)
>
>I really don't want (or like) to have to access the names with 
>dictionary key as *strings* in the function that is called and collects 
>them in a single object.
>
>
>> In this situation I think i would prefer this variation:
>> 
>> class Context(dict):
>>   def __init__(self,**kwds):
>>     dict.__init__(self,kwds)
>>   def __getattr__(self, name):
>>     return self.__getitem__(name)
>>   def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>>     self.__setitem__(name, value)
>>   def __delattr__(self, name):
>>     self.__delitem__(name)
> >
>> def foo(ctx):
>>    print ctx.color, ctx.size, ctx.shape
>> 
>> foo( Context(color='red', size='large', shape='ball') )
>> 
>> 
>> This is looking like foo should be a method of Context now,
>> but in my situation foo is already a method of another class.
>>
Or maybe just add a __repr__ method, if you want to see a readable
representation (e.g., see below). 
>> Simon.
>
>I didn't see what you were referring to at first.  But yes, I see the 
>similarity.
>
 >>> class Context(dict):
 ...   def __init__(self,**kwds):
 ...     dict.__init__(self,kwds)
 ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
 ...     return self.__getitem__(name)
 ...   def __setattr__(self, name, value):
 ...     self.__setitem__(name, value)
 ...   def __delattr__(self, name):
 ...     self.__delitem__(name)
 ...   def __repr__(self):
 ...     return 'Context(%s)' % ', '.join('%s=%r'% t for t in sorted(self.items()))
 ...
 >>> print Context(color='red', size='large', shape='ball')
 Context(color='red', shape='ball', size='large')
 >>> ctx = Context(color='red', size='large', shape='ball')
 >>> print ctx
 Context(color='red', shape='ball', size='large')
 >>> ctx
 Context(color='red', shape='ball', size='large')
 >>> ctx.color
 'red'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From http  Sun Oct 16 17:19:07 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 14:19:07 -0700
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
References: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1961.1129124798.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndkq5jv.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <7xfyr1yxbo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> The underlying implementation is an AVL balanced binary tree with
> inorder threading.

Dan Bernstein argues for switching from hash tables to crit-bit trees
(a/k/a Patricia trees), because of their guaranteed worst case
performance.  He also claims:

    "Crit-bit trees are faster than comparison-based structures such
    as AVL trees and B-trees. They're also simpler, especially for
    variable-length strings."

See:
    
      http://cr.yp.to/critbit.html

See:

      http://www.cs.rice.edu/~scrosby/hash/

for some stuff about the dangers of hash tables.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sun Oct 30 06:23:45 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:23:45 +0100
Subject: dreaming in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130625997.428653.28080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130625997.428653.28080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <sPadnT5eENvJMPne4p2dnA@telenor.com>

The Eternal Squire wrote:
> All,
> 
> I have to tell all of you this, at least for some laughs.  Honestly, I
> had the silliest dream involving the language last night.  I dreamt
> that it was a decade into the future and that Grand Central Station in
> NYC was installing a cement and steel "computer core" for directing its
> trains and station elevators... and for some reason I was supervising a
> technician on the project.  I asked the technician, what version of
> Python was being used, and he said 2.1... I said better install 2.4!
> So he loaded a chip into the 15 ton cylindrical core, then the core was
> lowered by winch into a manhole cover.  The lights in the station lit,
> and I shouted:  One Python to Rule Them All And In The Darkness Bind
> Them!   Then I took an elevator downstairs to log into the terminal.
> Who did I meet on a neighboring terminal other than the BDFL?  He was
> doing something esoteric and strange on the terminal but I was just
> having trouble logging in.  End of dream.
> 
> Anyone ever have a wierd engineering dream sometime in thier career?
> 
> The Eternal Squire
> 

Just sit still while the men in white come to pick you up :)

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Oct  7 14:51:18 2005
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:51:18 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "Britishaccent"...
In-Reply-To: <di5vs8$dk1$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<di5vs8$dk1$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <4346c5a8.0@entanet>

Rocco Moretti wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>> On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -0000, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com>
>>> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>> For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the
>>>> subject consists of more than one person.  Sports teams,
>>>> government departments, states, corporations etc. are grammatically
>>>> plural.  In American, the verb agrees with the
>>>> word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by
>>>> that word.
>>
>>
>> There aren't any universal rules, except possibly "British people
>> speak English while Americans don't". 
> 
> 
> I believe you overgeneralize. :)
> 
> A Welshman would likely be offended if you implied he spoke English, and
> the Scots are notorious for only speaking English when they have too. (I
> remember a news story some years back about a Scottish "lad" who was
> fined/imprisoned for replying to an official court representative with
> "Aye" rather than "Yes".) For that matter there are plenty of people in
> Cornwall and even in London (Cockney) who speak something that is only
> called "English" for lack of a better term.
> 

So English is spoken only in the South East of England, except London?
I think you should also disbar the queen (unless she's already
classified as a Londoner), due to her apparent confusion between the 1st
person singular and 1st person plural :-).

Duncan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct 16 10:29:56 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:29:56 +0200
Subject: wxPython & Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2051.1129266068.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <434e8dbf$0$452$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>	<3r8bo1Fi9etjU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2051.1129266068.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3rf6f4Fj4tqhU1@uni-berlin.de>

>> Why? Use windows python, wxPython for it - and put it in your path to 
>> use it inside cygwin.
>>
> Don't think that'll work for an extension module.

Sure it will. You can call whatever program you want from cygwin, as 
long as it is in the path. No difference to double-clicking an icon or 
something similar.

> 
>> But maybe you _can_ compile it yourself - I didn't try, though.
>>
>> Diez
> 
> 
> Probably a daunting task.

Yes, and probably not working unless you use MinGW, as you need 
windows-headers instead of Posix-style GCC. But I've compiled Python, Qt 
and some other libs using MinGW, and cygwin. So I think it should be doable.

Diez


From bosteen at maysubdivide.org  Mon Oct 31 05:40:47 2005
From: bosteen at maysubdivide.org (Ben O'Steen)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:40:47 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
In-Reply-To: <slrndmbrvo.8f7.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndmbpc3.7jg.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<mailman.2722.1130752831.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndmbrvo.8f7.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <40782.213.235.52.66.1130755247.squirrel@www.maysubdivide.org>

On Mon, October 31, 2005 10:23, Sybren Stuvel said:
> Ben O'Steen enlightened us with:
>> Using decimal as opposed to float sorts out this error as floats are
>> not built to handle the size of number used here.
>
> They can handle the size just fine. What they can't handle is 1/1000th
> precision when using numbers in the order of 1e10.
>

I used the word 'size' here incorrectly, I intended to mean 'length'
rather than numerical value. Sorry for the confusion :)



> Sybren
> --
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
>                                              Frank Zappa
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 24 12:24:18 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:24:18 -0400
Subject: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <868xwj6mgv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>
	<mailman.2460.1130140388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<868xwj6mgv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <fvydncshoq8vl8DeRVn-2A@powergate.ca>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> darren kirby <bulliver at badcomputer.org> writes:
> 
>>If all you want is filenames this will work:
>>
>>>>>import glob
>>>>>files = ["%s" % f for f in glob.glob("*")]
> 
> 
> What's the point of doing "%s" % f? How is this different from just
> file = [f for f in glob.glob("*")]?

Answering narrowly, the difference is that using "%s" calls str() on the 
items in the result list, while your suggestion does not.  ("Why not 
just use str(f) instead of the less clear '%s' % f?" would be a valid 
question too though.)

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 16 11:09:25 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:09:25 +0100
Subject: wxPython & Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <3rf6f4Fj4tqhU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <434e8dbf$0$452$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>	<3r8bo1Fi9etjU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.2051.1129266068.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rf6f4Fj4tqhU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ditqf2$cr7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>>Why? Use windows python, wxPython for it - and put it in your path to 
>>>use it inside cygwin.
>>>
>>
>>Don't think that'll work for an extension module.
> 
> 
> Sure it will. You can call whatever program you want from cygwin, as 
> long as it is in the path. No difference to double-clicking an icon or 
> something similar.
> 
Aah, right - I misunderstood you to be saying "use the Windows wxPython 
module under Cygwin Python".

> 
>>>But maybe you _can_ compile it yourself - I didn't try, though.
>>>
>>>Diez
>>
>>
>>Probably a daunting task.
> 
> 
> Yes, and probably not working unless you use MinGW, as you need 
> windows-headers instead of Posix-style GCC. But I've compiled Python, Qt 
> and some other libs using MinGW, and cygwin. So I think it should be doable.
> 
I'm sure the Cygwin world would be grateful if you or someone else were 
to establish the correct build procedure.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 04:57:26 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:57:26 +0200
Subject: Confused with module and .py files
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D4C@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <di04hq$jtg$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Iyer, Prasad C" wrote:

> How would I use it if I declare it as given below in my 3rd class
>
> from import1.py import *
> from import2.py import *

thats a syntax error; I assume you meant

    from import1 import *
    from import2 import *

which simply doesn't work if you need to access things that happens
to have the same name in both modules.

it's like typing

    a = 1
    a = 2

and then asking how you can access the original 1 via the "a" variable.

so unless you know *exactly* what you're doing, you should *never*
use "from import *" -- unless you're using a module that someone else
wrote, and the documentation for that module tells you do use it.

see http://effbot.org/zone/import-confusion.htm for more on this.

(see other replies for how to do what you want in a way that actually
works).

</F>





From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 19:07:42 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:07:42 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:
> In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
>> The technial problems have been solved for over a decade. NeXT shipped
>> systems that used text/richtext, which has none of the problems that
>> HTML has.  The problems are *social* - you've got to arrange for
>> people to use mail/news readers that understand a rich text format
>> that isn't a vector for viruses.
> It's not HTML that has problems, it's Microsoft's crappy software.

HTML is a problem on *other* peoples crappy software as well. It
wasn't designed to carry code content, but has been hacked up to do
that.

> Writing virus-free HTML renderers is not hard - but of course
> Microsoft can still screw it up.

Sure - just disable all the features that make people want to use HTML
instead of something else.

> Don't blame HTML for viruses - *every* document format Microsoft has
> anything to do with becomes a vector for viruses.

Which would mean that every open format that MS has had anything to do
with comes a vector for viruses. Somehow, I'm not buying it.

And HTML has more problems than just viruses - web bugs, for one. But
MIME's support for external bodies gives you that anyway.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From renting at astron.nl  Tue Oct 18 08:17:43 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:17:43 +0200
Subject: Hygenic Macros
Message-ID: <s355041c.073@server7.nfra.nl>

Using numarray/pylab there's also dot:
>>> from pylab import *
>>> A = array(range(10))
>>> B = array(range(10))
>>> A * B
[ 0, 1, 4, 9,16,25,36,49,64,81,]
>>> dot(A, B)
285

It might also make your code more readable. I would like "A dot B", but even using ipython
I can only get as close as "dot A, B"
 
>>>Dan Farina <nntp.20.drfarina at recursor.net> 10/18/05 1:33 pm >>> 
David Pokorny wrote: 
>Hi, 
> 
>Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
>good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
>multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
>multiplication). In Python, I have to type 
> 
>import Numeric 
>matrixmultiply(A,B) 
> 
>which makes my code almost unreadable. 
> 
>Thanks, 
>David 
 
The problem here is that Python's parse trees are of non-trivial ugliness. 
 
A page on the compiler.ast module: 
http://docs.python.org/lib/node792.html 
 
it is, in fact, perfectly possible to write yourself a pre-processor for 
your particular application.  You may have to fiddle with the token you 
want for notation depending on how the AST fleshes out (% is used by at 
least a couple of things, after all).  My cursory familiarity with 
python grammar suggests to me that this particular choice of token could 
be a problem. 
 
I would say try it and see.  Keep in mind though that since Python's AST 
is not a trivial matter like it is in Lisp and the like that doing 
metaprogramming of this sort probably falls into the category of black 
magic unless it turns out to be very trivial. 
 
Another option is to define your own tiny class that will override the 
__mult__ method so that you can simply do: 
 
A * B 
 
Which may not be what you want. 
 
df 
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 19:25:25 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:25:25 -0700
Subject: Pickling and unpickling inherited attributes
References: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h599ak.9lq5cmarleceN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Alex <OurLab at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a serious problem and I hope there is some solution. It is
> easier to illustrate with a simple code:
> 
> >>> class Parent(object):
>       __slots__=['A', 'B']
>       def __init__(self, a, b):
>               self.A=a; self.B=b
>       def __getstate__(self):
>               return self.A, self.B
>       def __setstate__(self, tup):
>               self.A, self.B=tup
> 
> 
> >>> class Child(Parent):
>       __slots__=['C',]
>       def __init__(self, c):
>               self.C=c
>       def __getstate__(self):
>               return self.C,
>       def __setstate__(self, tup):
>               self.C, =tup

Child.__getstate__ and __setstate__ need to cooperate with those of
Parent, not just override them as yours do.  __getstate__ is easy:

in Child:

   def __getstate__(self):
       return super(Child, self).__getstate__ + (self.C,)

i.e., each class will successively append its parts of state to the
resulting overall tuple.  It's harder to do for __setstate__ without
building into it a strong dependency on how many items of the tuple the
Parent is taking for its own use; you need to establish some protocol of
your own for that purpose, such as:

in Parent:

   def __setstate__(self, tup):
       self.A, self.B = tup[:2]
       self._tup = tup[2:]

in Child:

   def __setstate__(self, tup):
       super(Child, self).__setstate__(tup)
       self.C, = self._tup[:1]
       self._tup = self._tup[1:]

(the last statement is needed in case Child was further subclassed by a
Grandchild class following the same set-state protocol).

Working with lists rather than tuples might in fact be simpler.  But
simplest might be if __setstate__ was allowed to return something
different than None, so it could return "whatever's left of the tuple"
rather than relying on that nasty self._tup thingy (which is going to be
left there, empty, in the end -- though, each class could conditionally
delete it if it was empty).  However, while I believe it is not
currently enforced that __setstate__ might return a non-None value to be
ignored, I'm not sure it's _allowed_, either, so I wouldn't try (lest
this application should break in strange ways in future Python
versions).


Alex



From shannonlayland at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 15:43:37 2005
From: shannonlayland at gmail.com (shannonl)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 12:43:37 -0700
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2570.1130283424.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2570.1130283424.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130355817.708385.119790@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

No I haven't, but I will give it a try.

Thanks for your reply!



From http  Mon Oct  3 03:22:22 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 00:22:22 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x8xxbgj4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"El Pitonero" <pitonero at gmail.com> writes:
> The thing is, there are two sides to every coin. Features surely can
> be viewed as "goodies", or they can be viewed as "handcuffs".

Let's see, say I'm a bank manager, and I want to close my cash vault
at 5pm today and set its time lock so it can't be opened until 9am
tomorrow, including by me.  Is that "handcuffs"?  It's normal
procedure at any bank, for good reason.  It's not necessarily some
distrustful policy that the bank CEO set to keep me from robbing the
bank.  I might have set the policy myself.  Java lets me do something
similar with instance variables.  Why is it somehow an advantage for
Python to withhold such a capability?

> Sure, in these very dynamic languages you can ACCIDENTALLY override
> the default system behavior. How many Python programmers have once
> upon a time done stupid things like:
> list = 3

That's just a peculiarity, not any deep aspect of Python.  Try it for
'None' instead of 'list':

    >>> None = 3
    SyntaxError: assignment to None

Why is 'list' somehow different from 'None'?  I'd say there's a case
to be made for having the compiler protect 'list' and other builtins
the same way it protects 'None'.  Python won't be any less dynamic
because of it.

> The upside is exactly the same as the fact that you can override the
> "list()" function in Python.  Python is dynamic language. 

That's not exactly an upside, and it has nothing to do with Python
being dynamic.  C is static but you can override 'printf'.  Overriding
'list' in Python is pretty much the same thing.

> In Python, if you have a private variable:
> 
> self._x = 3
> 
> and you, for curiosity reasons and DURING runtime (after the program is
> already up and running) want to know the exact moment the self._x
> variable is accessed (say, print out the local time), or print out the
> calling stack frames, you can do it. And I mean the program is running.

So let's see:

  def countdown():
    n = 3
    while n > 0:
       yield n
  g = countdown()
  print g.next()  # 3
  print g.next()  # 2

where's the Python feature that lets me modify g's internal value of n
at this point?  How is that different from modifying a private
instance variable?  "Python feature" means something in the language
definition, not an artifact of some particular implementation.  Is
Python somehow deficient because it doesn't give a way to do that?  Do
you want to write a PEP to add a way?  Do you think anyone will take
it seriously?

[Other stuff incomprehensible and snipped].


From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Wed Oct 12 05:42:40 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:42:40 +0200
Subject: how to(can we ?) pass argument to .py script ?
References: <1129039664.425406.265670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129042115.926410.71880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129042655.097833.307550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SE63f.25927$133.24007@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

It's quite simple. If this usage example can helps you...

### parser
try:
    opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "h, e, p:", ["help"])
    mode = 'reply' # default mode
    pwd = ' ' # default pass (blank)
    for o, a in opts:
        if o == '--help' or o == '-h':
            print helper()
            os._exit(0)
        if o == '-h':
            print helper()
            os._exit(0)
        if o == '-e':
            mode = 'echo/reply'
        if o == '-p':
            pwd = a
    if len(args) < 3 :
        print " ERR: Too much few arguments.\n Type %s -h for help." \
        %(sys.argv[0])
        os._exit(0)
    if len(args) > 3:
        print \
" ERR: Too much arguments.\n Type -h and \
look example to send argumented commands."
        os._exit(0)
except:
    print " ERR: Invalid Option.\n Type %s -h for help." \
    %(sys.argv[0])
    os._exit(0)
### /parser 




From mde at micah.elliott.name  Wed Oct 19 11:32:15 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:32:15 -0700
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.19.14.02.16.956637@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<m3mzl87am5.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.16.41.654136@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dj4858$2t0$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<pan.2005.10.19.14.02.16.956637@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <20051019153215.GB20480@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 20, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> That's not what I get. What are you using?
> 
> py> pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2], 5], width=1, indent=4)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: pprint() got an unexpected keyword argument 'width'

I find it useful to have all relevant python versions (as listed on
http://www.python.org/download/) installed on my primary test
machines.  It really helps me with portability testing:

   $ ls /usr/local/bin/python*
   /usr/local/bin/python
   /usr/local/bin/python2.0
   /usr/local/bin/python2.1
   /usr/local/bin/python2.2
   /usr/local/bin/python2.3
   /usr/local/bin/python2.4

Then I see that v2.3 didn't have 'width':

   $ python2.3 -c 'import pprint; pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2], 5],
   width=1, indent=4)'
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<string>", line 1, in ?
     TypeError: pprint() got an unexpected keyword argument 'width'

But v2.4 does:

   $ python2.4 -c 'import pprint; pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2], 5],
   width=1, indent=4)'
   [   1,
       2,
       3,
       4,
       [   0,
           1,
           2],
       5]

-- 
_  _     ___
|\/|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
"  "     """


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 09:27:20 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:27:20 +0200
Subject: ssh or other python editor
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhtvvn$ifh$1@sea.gmane.org>

"projecktzero" wrote:

> If samba isn't available/set-up, you can try using FTP. You can then
> use Crimson Editor which does the syntax coloring and can ftp to/from a
> server.

are you guys for real?

is there any major text editor for Unix that doesn't support Python syntax
coloring and indentation these days?

</F> 





From python_it at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 04:59:53 2005
From: python_it at hotmail.com (Python_it)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 01:59:53 -0700
Subject: mod_python
In-Reply-To: <q79s13-sit.ln1@news.interplanet.it>
References: <1129016557.060339.136600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<q79s13-sit.ln1@news.interplanet.it>
Message-ID: <1129021193.741523.252320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your replay.
I put the handler code at the end of the file.
No error!
But if I go to my localhost\project\mptest.py
The code of my function appears.
I solve this by put the following code in the confige file:

<Directory ..........>
AllowOverride FileInfo
</Directory>



From vasialisa-petrova at ryandex.ru  Wed Oct  5 13:46:24 2005
From: vasialisa-petrova at ryandex.ru (Vasilisa)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:46:24 +0200
Subject: Antsoft Best domain software
Message-ID: <1128534544_54013@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

Find expired domains with the best software:
http://www.antssoft.com




The best domain names are already taken. But with expired domain software you can find the best domain names like:
--------------------------------
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http://www.aryh.com
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http://www.f6x.de
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----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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From vincent.gulinao at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 05:39:43 2005
From: vincent.gulinao at gmail.com (Vincent Gulinao)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:39:43 +0800
Subject: Upgrading 2.4.1 to 2.4.2
In-Reply-To: <1129712636.124150.248200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <20051017192011.28785.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2187.1129582031.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129690538.026623.28230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129712636.124150.248200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcc3e6170510250239y68afeea8k70d5eb0b196be3c2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I'm new to python and just upgraded python on my system from 2.3 to 2.4.
My platform is Linux-2.6.9-1.667smp-i686-with-redhat-3-Heidelberg.

Is there any way to inherit (share?) all extensions and additional modules
the my 2.3 have? (of course, beside re-installing everything)

On 19 Oct 2005 02:03:56 -0700, Ben Sizer <kylotan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> brusstoc at gmail.com wrote:
> > Not sure that is a good idea on a linux system. MS should be fine, but
> > I actually tried that on linux. Didn't realize how much on a linux
> > system depends on Python.
>
> I had that problem once, although to be fair it really does depend on
> which distribution you use as to how many problems you're going to
> have.
>
> Perhaps the way to do it is to install the new Python version in
> /usr/local/ (alongside the distro's version is in /usr/ ), then when
> you're sure your new version is installed and working, change the
> references over - perhaps it's possible to do this with just 1 symbolic
> link somewhere.
>
> --
> Ben Sizer
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From graham.fawcett at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 09:59:52 2005
From: graham.fawcett at gmail.com (Graham  Fawcett)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 06:59:52 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129694284.783396.197680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<WKmdnXS_6eREM8jeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129694284.783396.197680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130162392.932790.31430@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Dear Peter Hansen,
> My messages speak themselfs. You and your cohorts's stamping of it does
> not change its nature. And if this is done with repetitiousness, it
> gives away your nature.

Taunt not the cohorts of Peter Hansen!

Graham



From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 07:40:50 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 04:40:50 -0700
Subject: replacments for stdio?
In-Reply-To: <1128597932.529665.51810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1127477278.036977.189230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127670588.872596.117560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128079278.563621.8310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128548582.759883.326290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128597932.529665.51810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128598850.769891.327140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

the source (and Bryan) doesn't say anything about further distribution
- and he did not provide a real email address.
Can I safely modify it and include it in the source distribution of my
program (it is open source licensed)? Would that be the polite thing to
do, i have no idea how to contact this guy?



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 16:21:39 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:21:39 -0800
Subject: Tk
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510280144k1a2a2565h77fa28dc58a22ac4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d987df30510280144k1a2a2565h77fa28dc58a22ac4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d987df30510301321o23ba3ab3o3e3c84d5acad5fd@mail.gmail.com>

How can I make the main menu come first, and after clicking test/just
try, "how are you" interface shows.

Thanks a lot!
from Tkinter import *
from Tkinter import _cnfmerge

class Dialog(Widget):
  def __init__(self, master=None, cnf={}, **kw):
      cnf = _cnfmerge((cnf, kw))
      self.widgetName = '__dialog__'
      Widget._setup(self, master, cnf)
      self.num = self.tk.getint(
              apply(self.tk.call,
                    ('tk_dialog', self._w,
                     cnf['title'], cnf['text'],
                     cnf['bitmap'], cnf['default'])
                    + cnf['strings']))
      try: Widget.destroy(self)
      except TclError: pass
  def destroy(self): pass

if __name__ == '__main__':

  q = Button(None, {'text': 'How are you',
                    Pack: {}})
  b1 = Listbox()
  b1.pack()

  c1 = Checkbutton(text="Check")
  c1.pack()

  q.mainloop()

from Tkinter import *
root =Tk()
menu=Menu(root)
root.config(menu=menu)
filemenu=Menu(menu)
menu.add_cascade(label="Test", menu=filemenu)
filemenu.add_command(label="Just Try")
filemenu.add_separator()
mainloop()


From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Mon Oct 10 17:15:17 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 14:15:17 -0700
Subject: Works only in interactive mode
Message-ID: <1128978917.143125.68230@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
using Python 2.4 under Linux (SUSE 9.3) I was developping a script to
get various lists related with DCOP.
In interactive Python all is working correctly:

import pcop

# application's registration with DCOP
x=pcop.register_as('kate')
print x
    kate-7497

# list of DCOP registered applications
print pcop.app_list('kate')
    ['kwin', 'kicker', 'konqueror-7203', 'kate', 'kded', 'kmix',
'kate-7497',       'knotify', 'susewatcher', 'suseplugger',
'kio_uiserver', 'kcookiejar', 'klauncher', 'khotkeys', 'kdesktop',
'konsole-7340', 'klipper', 'ksmserver', 'kaccess', 'kpowersave']

Instead as a script:

1 import pcop
2
3 # application's registration with DCOP
4 x=pcop.register_as('kate')
5 print x
6
7 # list of DCOP registered applications (emula dcop)
8 print pcop.app_list('kate')

you get:
0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/bf/python/pippo.py", line 4, in ?
    x=pcop.register_as('kate')
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'register_as'

How is it possible?
Bye.



From mail at eikepreuss.de  Fri Oct 14 04:20:30 2005
From: mail at eikepreuss.de (Eike Preuss)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:20:30 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <Xns96EE843405C45bguild31425@64.59.144.76>
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<86slv8xdkw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4@4ax.com>
	<Xns96EE843405C45bguild31425@64.59.144.76>
Message-ID: <3r97uiFi7bsaU1@individual.net>

>>
>>1. flipping to a digital id based email system so that the sender of
>>any piece of mail can be legally identified and prosecuted.
>>If every piece of anonymous email disappeared that would go a long
>>way to clearing up spam.  Let those sending ransom notes, death
>>threats and  hate mail use snail mail.  As a second best,
>>correspondents are identified by permission/identity/encryption keys
>>given to them by their recipients.
> 
> 
> The first part seems rather expensive and I'm not sure it would help. 
> Is spam illegal? I don't see how it can be. I mean, those messages are 
> annoying, but not that annoying. I get unsolicited email that I 
> actually want often enough to want to avoid gumming it up in legal 
> issues.
> 
Just think about 'protecting the youth'. Everybody can send highly
sexual (to the abnormal) content to everybody. If you would do this
personally on the streets you would surely be prosecuted in most
countries. So, if it isn't illegal, it should be.

[snip]

++ Eike


From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 09:42:38 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 06:42:38 -0700
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
Message-ID: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I initially thought that generator/generator expression is cool(sort of
like the lazy evaluation in Haskell) until I notice this side effect.

>>>a=(x for x in range(2))
>>>list(a)
[1,2]
>>>list(a)
[]

Would this make generator/generator expression's usage pretty limited ?
As when the program/system goes beyond a single module, this behaviour
can cause subtle bugs ?



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 31 07:50:17 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:50:17 -0600
Subject: taking x-window screen shot
In-Reply-To: <43660C33.5080603@gmail.com>
References: <43660C33.5080603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051031125017.GB11789@unpythonic.net>

I recommend using 'xwd' to actually get the screenshot, because xwd is
installed nearly everwhere X is.  xwd-format images are "documented" by the
header file X11/XWDFile.h.  This program works in a pipeline to convert certain
xwd-format images to postscript.  You can use it something like this:
	$ xwd | python xwdtops.py | lpr
.. it should print a greyscale rendition of the clicked window to the default
printer, if it accepts postscript.

It's been quite awhile since I wrote this program (and later re-wrote it
in C because it's a bit slow), so I'm not really familiar with this code
anymore.  However, I do believe that it works on common 16 and 32-bit X
displays.

One more thing --- if you have imagemagick installed, you may want to consider
using its command "import" instead.  Instead of the xwd format, it can write
the image in many formats, instead of just xwd.

Jeff

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------
import struct, sys

print "%!PS-Adobe-1.0"
def get_shift(n):
    for i in range(32):
        if n & (1<<i):
            return i

def struct_read(f, fmt):
    sz = struct.calcsize(fmt)
    return struct.unpack(fmt, f.read(sz))

header_format = "!25I"
color_format = "!IHHHBB"

header_size = struct.calcsize(header_format)

header = struct_read(sys.stdin, header_format)

(header_size1, file_version, pixmap_format, pixmap_depth, pixmap_width, 
 pixmap_height, xoffset, byte_order, bitmap_unit, bitmap_bit_order,
 bitmap_pad, bits_per_pixel, bytes_per_line, visual_class, red_mask,
 green_mask, blue_mask, bits_per_rgb, colormap_entries, ncolors,
 window_width, window_height, window_x, window_y, window_bdrwidth) = header

if file_version != 7:
    raise ValueError, "Cannot parse file version %d (only 7)" % file_version
if pixmap_format != 2:
    raise ValueError, "Cannot parse pixel format %d (only ZPixmap, 2)" % pixel_format

window_name = sys.stdin.read(header[0]-100)[:-1] # discard terminating NUL

print "% Undumping", window_name


colors = {}
for i in range(colormap_entries):
    color = struct_read(sys.stdin, color_format)
    colors[color[0]] = color

rest = sys.stdin.read()

rs = get_shift(red_mask)
gs = get_shift(green_mask)
bs = get_shift(blue_mask)

rsc = .299*256/(red_mask >> rs)
gsc = .587*256/(green_mask >> gs)
bsc = .114*256/(blue_mask >> bs)

print "%", red_mask, green_mask, blue_mask
print "%", rs, gs, bs
print "%", rsc, gsc, bsc
print "%", bits_per_pixel
wscale = 558./window_width
hscale = 720./window_height
scale = min(1, wscale, hscale)

rwscale = 558./window_height
rhscale = 720./window_width
rscale = min(1, rwscale, rhscale)
print "% scale -", scale, rscale

print "/Helvetica findfont 16 scalefont setfont"
print "18 756 moveto"
print "(%s) show" % " ".join(sys.argv[1:]) or window_name

if scale < rscale:
    scale = rscale
    #print "%d %d translate" % (window_height*scale+18, 36)
    print "%d %d translate" % (8.5*72, 0)
    print "90 rotate"
    print "18 %d translate" % (594-window_height*scale) # 8.25"
    sz = 8.5*72
else:
    print "18 %d translate" % (750-window_height*scale) # 10.5"
    sz = 11*72

print "%d %d scale" % (window_width*scale, window_height*scale)

print "/picstr %d string def" % window_width

bytes_per_pixel = (bits_per_pixel+7)/8
row_format = "%c%d%c" % ("<>"[byte_order],
                        window_width,
                        "HI"[bits_per_pixel > 16])
print "%", row_format, bytes_per_line, bytes_per_pixel*window_width
print "%", len(rest)

print "%d %d 8 [%d 0 0 %d 0 0] {currentfile picstr readhexstring pop } image" % (window_width, window_height, window_width, window_height)

if 0:
    print "00"* window_width
    for row in range(window_height-2):
        print "00" + "c0" * (window_width-2) + "00"
    print "00"* window_width
else:
    for row in range(window_height-1, -1, -1):
        a = row * bytes_per_line
        b = a + bytes_per_pixel*window_width
        for pixel in struct.unpack(row_format, rest[a:b]):
            r = (pixel & red_mask) >> rs
            g = (pixel & green_mask) >> gs
            b = (pixel & blue_mask) >> bs
            gray = int(rsc*r+gsc*g+bsc*b)
            sys.stdout.write("%02x" % gray)
        sys.stdout.write("\n")
print
print "showpage"
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From steve at ferg.org  Fri Oct  7 12:52:33 2005
From: steve at ferg.org (Steve)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 09:52:33 -0700
Subject: Why do I get an import error on this?
Message-ID: <1128703953.497560.47620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to run a Python program on Unix and I'm encountering some
behavior I don't understand.  I'm a Unix newbie, and I'm wondering if
someone can help.

I have a simple program:
____________________________________________

#! /home/fergs/python/bin/python
import sys, os
import cx_Oracle
____________________________________________

If I run it through the Python interpreter, this way:

 >> python test.py

it runs fine.

But if I try to run it as an executable script, this way:

 >> test.py

I get an import error that says it can't find cx_Oracle.

Why does it behave differently when I run it in these two ways, and
what do I need to do to make it run successfully either way?



From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 22:29:32 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:29:32 -0400
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.08.02.38.09.408566@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F317F31B8BFD608F857FA98A2870@phx.gbl>

>Is it *really* a good idea if the user types "STOP!!!" and it has the
>same effect as if they typed "Start please"?
>
>I've heard of "Do what I mean, not what I said" systems, which are usually
>a really bad idea, but this is the first time I've seen a "Do what I don't
>mean, not what I said" system.

=D

Alright, I'm going to stop trying to defend my idea since it's obviously a 
bad one.  What do you recommend?

-Ivan

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct  8 18:39:38 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:39:38 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 00:03:05 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
<lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote or quoted :

>On one side you got control freaks who condemn everyone who dares send 
>an email with something other than what you've got your own email set up 
>to use. "You dare specify the font sized when I finally figured out that 
>10 is just right? Infidel!"

This is one of the marvels of CSS once you get the hang of it.  If you
don't like bright red letters on green backgrounds, you can CHANGE
that. You can change the fonts, sizes etc etc. You can if you want get
something very like plain ASCII text.

So from an aesthetic point of view, once people learn how it works,
CSS lets sender and receiver compromise on what the message looks
like. No other medium gives ANY control to the receiver about how a
message is formatted.

One of the most important changes in the ability to select special
fonts for the those without prefect vision and larger fonts.

There is also the philosophical question. When my nephew sends me a
message, do I have a right to warp his intent even if I don't like the
aesthetics?  That is part of his message.

Should my email reader fix the spelling mistakes in the emails sent me
by angry US soldiers?  Or is that part of the message?

There are three different issues getting muddled together:

1. avoiding spam

2. making mail from well meaning but inept friends more readable.

3. what constitutes a good general style for general correspondence.
How should you use rich text appropriately.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 02:05:12 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <dhqr8r$tcb$00$3@news.t-online.com>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1272.1128089690.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhqr8r$tcb$00$3@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <200510070105.12846.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 03 October 2005 03:48 am, Volker Grabsch wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> > /... snip comment that the natural order is C, X, Y and that programmers that
> > care about readable code will probably want to be extremely careful with this
> > new feature .../
> 
> That's also my opinion, but OTOH, Guido's syntax is more close to the syntax
> of list comprehensions.

GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
reading it as written pretty much makes sense).

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct  4 14:25:04 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:25:04 -0400
Subject: ssh or other python editor
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1439.1128433407.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128433683.342113.32060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1442.1128435084.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86ek71i1hb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
> martijn at gamecreators.nl wrote:
>>- I'm a newbie at freeBSD so I think there is , but I don't know where.
> Putty isn't doing any syntax coloring; it just draws things in the color specified
> by your editor.  If you don't get any colors, it's probably because your editor
> isn't properly configured.  Explicitly setting the TERM variable to "xterm" might
> help:
>
>     http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#faq-term

According to the FAQ, putty sets it to xterm. I use xter-color on
FreeBSD.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au  Mon Oct 31 02:10:30 2005
From: bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:10:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Rich __repr__
Message-ID: <dk4g16$et4$1@rose.polar.local>

Howdy all,

The builtin types have __repr__ attributes that return something nice,
that looks like the syntax one would use to create that particular
instance.

The default __repr__ for custom classes show the fully-qualified class
name, and the memory address of the instance.

If I want to implement a __repr__ that's reasonably "nice" to the
programmer, what's the Right Way? Are there recipes I should look at?

-- 
 \     "For certain people, after fifty, litigation takes the place of |
  `\                                              sex."  -- Gore Vidal |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From klaus at seistrup.dk  Tue Oct  4 09:01:06 2005
From: klaus at seistrup.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:01:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: NNTP module capable of "MODE STREAM"
Message-ID: <slrndk4v8i.jlq.klaus@main.szn.dk>

Hi,

I need a Python NNTP module that is capable of doing "MODE STREAM" as 
client and as server.  Does anyone here know of such a module except 
the twisted.protocols.nntp module?

Cheers,

-- 
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
Copenhagen, Denmark
http://streetkids.dk/


From kibleur.christophe at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 16:33:10 2005
From: kibleur.christophe at gmail.com (Tool69)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:33:10 -0700
Subject: SetBackgroundColor doesn't work for me
Message-ID: <1128630790.642555.143090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I'm on Linux Ubuntu Breezy with wxPython 2.6.1 and Python 2.4.1
installed.
I've made an app, but the BackgroundColors won't work on any of my
ListBoxes, they only work with Windows XP. Does someone had this
problem before ? Any suggestion ? 
thanks.



From hungryblank at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 06:37:01 2005
From: hungryblank at gmail.com (hungryblank at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 03:37:01 -0700
Subject: get_payload problem with large mail attachments
Message-ID: <1129286221.172200.217160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I'm having troubles with a script that uses the get_payload function.
My script just works perfectly if I use it with attachment up to 8 Mb.
If the attachment are more than 8 Mb large, the script exits with a
TypeError exception.
IMHO when get_payload try to convert the attachment in a single string
it occours in some size limit.
How can I fix it?

I'm using python-2.3.3 on a SuSE 9.1 distro

The error raised is

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/sbin/mailbox2home.py", line 44, in ?
    fp.write(part.get_payload(decode=1))
TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only buffer, not None

and this is the slice of code where the error occours.

for message in messages:
    for part in message.walk():
        # multipart/* are just containers
        if part.get_content_maintype() == 'multipart':
            continue
        # Applications should really sanitize the given filename so
that an
        # email message can't be used to overwrite important files
        filename = part.get_filename()
        if not filename:
            ext = mimetypes.guess_extension(part.get_type())
            if not ext:
                # Use a generic bag-of-bits extension
                ext = '.bin'
            filename = 'part-%03d%s' % (counter, ext)
        counter += 1
        fp = open(os.path.join(dir, filename), 'wb')
        fp.write(part.get_payload(decode=1))
        fp.close()



From timr at probo.com  Fri Oct 21 02:13:06 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:13:06 GMT
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vd1hl1lbk13k6jenpuvmc7l6fl73p6em2r@4ax.com>

"grunar at gmail.com" <grunar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>An Example:
>
>>>> import sqlstring
>>>> model = sqlstring.TableFactory()
>>>> print model.person
>SELECT
>person.*
>FROM
>[person] person

The [bracket] syntax is unique to Microsoft.  Everyone else, including
Microsoft SQL Server, uses "double quotes" to protect special characters in
identifiers.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From renting at astron.nl  Tue Oct 25 03:17:32 2005
From: renting at astron.nl (Adriaan Renting)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:17:32 +0200
Subject: Redirect os.system output
Message-ID: <s35df83f.069@server7.nfra.nl>

Maybe Pexpect can help you, I think it does what you want, I'm just not sure it works on windows, as I think it uses pty's.

Please read it's FAQ about stdio buffer behaviour, I think it's also valid on Windows. pexpect.sourceforge.net

Adriaan Renting.
 
 
>>>"jas" <codecraig at gmail.com> 10/24/05 2:33 pm >>> 
#I see that, although I don't totall grasp the code.  However, I am 
#looking to basically emulate a command prompt.  i.e. everything u see 
#in the windows command prompt should be displayed back in python. 
# 
#How can I do it without files? 
# 
#Kent Johnson wrote: 
#>jas wrote: 
#>>Any other ideas? or examples of using subprocess to do what I was 
#>>asking? 
#> 
#>Actually I thought I was giving an example of what you were asking: 
#>- on windows 
#>- send a series of commands to a command process 
#>- capture the result to a variable 
#> 
#>The example I referenced sends a series of HELP commands to cmd.exe, captures the output of the commands and saves it to a #file. 
#> 
#>What did I miss? 
#> 
#>Kent 
#> 
#>> 
#>> 
#>>Kent Johnson wrote: 
#>> 
#>>>jas wrote: 
#>>> 
#>>>>I would like to redirect the output from os.system to a variable, but 
3>>>>am having trouble.  I tried using os.popen(..).read() ...but that 
#>>>>doesn't give me exactly what i want. 
#>>> 
#>>>Here is an example using subprocess: 
#>>>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/9fa3a3c287e8e2a3?hl=en& 
3>>> 
#>>>Kent 
#>>> 
#>>> 



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 18:24:01 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:24:01 +0200
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:

> Any idea why I can't say:
>
> if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
>
> all in one line like that?

because ";" can only be used to separate simple statements, not
the different parts in a compound statement.

see the grammar for details:

    http://docs.python.org/ref/grammar.txt

(look for "compound_stmt", "suite", "statement", etc)

</F>





From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 17:17:15 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:17:15 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Ghf0f.11476$X31.619550@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <86k6gujo6c.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> writes:
> Peter Decker wrote:
>> Setting the default Reply-To: to the list means that 'Reply' sends
>> just to the list (the desired behavior most of the time), and 'Reply
>> to all' sends 2 copies.
> The thing is: Reply-to has legitimate uses. I don't really understand
> the use cases (AFAICS all of them could be done with Form: instead)

Yes, they can all be done with From:. But From: has uses other than
just listing the reply address, and if you hijack From: to replace
reply-to (because other people have hijacked Reply-To: for purposes
for which it wasn't intended :-), then you can't use From: for what
*it* was intended for.

I send out mail - well, mail gets sent out for me - every day that
uses both the From: and Reply-To: fields. The mail is *from* me, and
that's what the from header says. The reply needs to go to a magic
maildrop that takes action based on the reply address. The recipient
doesn't need to see the reply address, and would only be confused by
it if they did.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Oct 19 23:04:45 2005
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:04:45 -0600
Subject: destroy your self????
In-Reply-To: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4357094D.2050407@pythonapocrypha.com>

KraftDiner wrote:
> if I create an object like...
> 
> obj = None
> ...
> obj = anObject()
> 
> can obj set itself to none in some method of the class?

No - Python doesn't work that way.

What are you trying to accomplish? There's probably a way to do what you need to 
do, but this isn't it.

-Dave


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:45:20 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:45:20 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
Message-ID: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

How can I get a raised exception from other thread that is in an
imported module?

For example:

---------------
programA.py
---------------

import programB

thread = programB.MakeThread()
thread.start()

---------------
programB.py
---------------
import threading, time

class SomeException(Exception):
    pass

class MakeThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)

    def run(self):
        i = 0
        while 1:
            print i
            i += 1
            time.sleep(1) #wait a second to continue
            if i>10:
                raise SomeException()


Thanks

Daniel



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 10:49:02 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:49:02 -0400
Subject: xml.dom.minidom - parseString - How to avoid ExpatError?
In-Reply-To: <43608B8F.1000506@plus.net>
References: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<312cfe2b0510260738j460b075ch998371a460c39df8@mail.gmail.com>
	<435F9C6C.50707@plus.net>
	<312cfe2b0510261020w1d485c98m526e325d6ada1082@mail.gmail.com>
	<43608B8F.1000506@plus.net>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510270749x2685c686w3f033a5f151a903a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, John. That was all very helpful. It looks like one option for me
would be to put cdata[ around my text with all the weird characters.
Otherwise running it through on of the SAX utilities before parsing might
work.

I wonder if the sax utilities would give me a performance hit. I have 6000
xml files to parse at 100KB each.

-Greg
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From borell at nytimes.com  Thu Oct 13 19:25:42 2005
From: borell at nytimes.com (Frank Borell)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 16:25:42 -0700
Subject: win32api.FindFiles Win2003, problem with Short Name
Message-ID: <1129245942.185252.171220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I'm having a problem retrieving the ShortName from a file that was
written by a MAC and only from a Windows 2003 server.

I realize the file has a space after it, but I can retrieve the short
name from Windows XP and 2000;

>>>print win32api.FindFiles(process_source_dir + "*")

Excluding the results from "." and "..", it returns:
(32, <PyTime:10/13/2005 8:12:12 PM>, <PyTime:10/13/2005 8:41:40 PM>,
<PyTime:10/13/2005 8:16:56 PM>, 0, 44118, 29741111, 0, '10^2f16
Hardcover a ', '10^2F167.5AC') - All OK!!

When using the same command on Win2003, it returns:
<PyTime:10/13/2005 8:49:06 PM>, <PyTime:10/13/2005 8:16:56 PM>, 0,
44118, 29741111, 0, '10^2f16 Hardcover a ', '')

The versions of Python / Win32 are the same on all servers.
Does anyone have any ideas?

Frank



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 18:29:22 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:29:22 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86y84ehd3j.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> I've noticed something strange that makes me wonder the same
> thing. Everytime someone compares MS's behavior with that of any other
> criminals, he responds about MS's activity being "equated to that of
> criminals with guns", and refuses to discuss the issue. Ironically,
> while no one else has so much as compared MS to criminals with guns -
> after all, they're white collar criminals - David Schwartz called the
> DOJ official who were investigating MS "criminals with guns pointed
> out [MS officers] heads".

    I can't understand why you would post an outright lie like this. 
"Ironically, while no one else has so much as compared MS to criminals with 
guns". I defy you to find *one* place where I complain that MS behavior is 
equated to the actual use of force where that is not in fact done in 
precisely the thread I'm replying to.

    In the present thread, for example, I was responding to:

"We are talking junior Mafia style enforcement."

    and

"Try the same thing to deal with a Mafia extortion racket."

    and his response to my question if he was specifically saying that 
Microsoft ever used or threatened force was:

"YES .  Have you not read a word I said."

    and

"It will be very hard to prosecute MS for their crimes because they commit 
them much the way the Mafia does. ... Everyone was terrified of MS and would 
never dream of going public. I have talked about this publicly many times 
because it always looked as if I were going to die in a few years anyway."

    DS




From avnit7 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 14:02:07 2005
From: avnit7 at gmail.com (avnit)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 11:02:07 -0800
Subject: Print to printer
In-Reply-To: <1130552901.655182.203330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130528702.908172.189990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130552901.655182.203330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130783807.396650.268660@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I just want to print text. I'll try macpython. Thanks for the help.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 20 07:08:20 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:08:20 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>
	<dj56ba$2oe$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <d8uel1ldn28q45ka1mrb2ep26cvmmuv6pq@4ax.com>

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:15:03 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    Did I say their obligation was to secure their shareholders as much 
>profit as possible? I said their obligation was to their shareholders.

You are literally saying people work for a company have an obligation
to the shareholders. That is too obvious to be bothered with
announcing. The employees take the shareholder's money, so obviously
they have an obligation to produce something in return.  When I read
your words, I think you really mean this is the prime or sole
obligation of an employee.  I disagree with that. There are many
loyalties that compete.

Personally, the loyalty to the preservation of my planet is far above
loyalty to any company.  For example, I would feel a moral obligation
to be a whistleblower of actions of a company that was destroying the
environment.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 31 11:45:02 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:45:02 -0500
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
References: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <864q6xbppt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"dakman at gmail.com" <dakman at gmail.com> writes:
> Recently, I have been needing to do this alot and I can never find a
> way around it, the main reason I want to do this is because for example
> in the application I am making right now, it creates a grid of buttons
> in a loop and they all have the same purpose so they need to call the
> same method, within this method they need to change the background
> color of the button clicked, I've tried stuff like...
>
> button['command'] = lambda: self.fill(button)
>
> def fill(self, wid):
>     button['bg'] = '#ff0000'
>
> But that's no good, everytime it I do click a button the lambda method
> I have setup keeps getting recreated so all of the button commands
> point to the same lambda method, I have also tried appending them to an
> array, and calling them from that.
>
> Anyone have any clue as of what to do? Thanks.

People have pointed out how to do this with a class, but you can do it
with lambdas as well. I suspect the problem you're having is that
python is binding values at call time instead of at definition time,
but it's hard to tell without more of your source code.

If I'm right, one solution is to make the values you want bound at
definition time optional arguments to the lambda, bound to the correct
value then. So you'd do:

      button['command'] = lambda b = button: self.fill(b)

The version you used will look up the name button when the lambda is
invoked. My version will look it up when the lambda is defined.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From thomasbartkus at comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 16:43:21 2005
From: thomasbartkus at comcast.net (Thomas Bartkus)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:43:21 -0500
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <A_CdnfnrU4zBT9feRVn-jw@telcove.net>

"Ville Voipio" <vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi...
> In article <7xr7au1hr5.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
<snip>

> I would need to make some high-reliability software
> running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
> (or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.

> The software should be running continously for
> practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
> is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
> leak-free enough to achieve this?

>
> Adding the Python interpreter adds one layer on uncertainty.
> On the other hand, I am after the simplicity of programming
> offered by Python.
<snip>

> I would need to make some high-reliability software
> running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
> (or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.
<snip>
> The software should be running continously for
> practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
> is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
> leak-free enough to achieve this?
<snip>

All in all, it would seem that the reliability of the Python run time is the
least of your worries.  The best multi-tasking operating systems do a good
job of segragating different processes BUT what multitasking operating
system meets the standard you request in that last paragraph?  Assuming that
the Python interpreter itself is robust enough to meet that standard, what
about that other 99% of everything else that is competing with your Python
script for cpu, memory, and other critical resources? Under ordinary Linux,
your Python script will be interrupted frequently and regularly by processes
entirely outside of Python's control.

You may not want a multitasking OS at all but rather a single tasking OS
where nothing  happens that isn't 100% under your program control. Or if you
do need a multitasking system, you probably want something designed for the
type of rugged use you are demanding.  I would google "embedded systems".
If you want to use Python/Linux, I might suggest you search "Embedded
Linux".

And I wouldn't be surprised if some dedicated microcontrollers aren't
showing up with Python capability.  In any case, it would seem you need more
control than a Python interpreter would receive when running under Linux.

Good Luck.
Thomas Bartkus






From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 07:07:50 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:07:50 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<om61m1p2tfogeq8fvtt2mucrtstq3d5b2h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqce7$3r7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> The tactic Univac/Burroughs/Prime used, at least for big sales, was
> for example invite the potential customer to view some installation to
> talk to a satisfied client about how they were using their gear. There
> might be a convenient client in say ... Las Vegas.

    Yep, that's a classic. Notice that no force, fraud, or threats are 
involved.

> The game then became to get the client to get drunk and laid and do
> crazy things to help very uptight people cut loose.
>
> On one of these trips, we ran through fields chasing fireflies.

    That is a bit questionable, I admit. It is questionable because the 
intent is pretty obviously to get the individuals more interested in being 
nice to you than looking out for the interests of their employers when they 
make their purchasing decisions.

    On the other hand, it's a far cry from force, fraud, blacklisting, 
threats of false accusations, and so on.

    DS




From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  6 02:47:58 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 06:47:58 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk9i4u.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Brian Quinlan schreef <brian at sweetapp.com>:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
>> 
>>>Have those of you who think that the lack of required declarations in
>>>Python is a huge weakness given any thought to the impact that adding
>>>them would have on the rest of the language? I can't imagine how any
>>>language with required declarations could even remotely resemble
>>>Python.
>> 
>> 
>> Python already has a "global" declaration;
>
> Which is evaluated at runtime, does not require that the actual global 
> variable be pre-existing, and does not create the global variable if not 
> actually assigned. I think that is pretty different than your proposal 
> semantics.
>
>> how does it de-Pythonize the language if there's also a "local"
>> declaration and an option to flag any variable that's not declared as
>> one or the other?
>
> Your making this feature "optional" contradicts the subject of this 
> thread i.e. declarations being necessary. But, continuing with your 
> declaration thought experiment, how are you planning on actually adding 
> optional useful type declarations to Python e.g. could you please 
> rewrite this (trivial) snippet using your proposed syntax/semantics?
>
> from xml.dom import *
>
> def do_add(x, y):
>      return '%s://%s' % (x, y)
>
> def do_something(node):
>      if node.namespace == XML_NAMESPACE:
>          return do_add('http://', node.namespace)
>      elif node.namespace == ...
>      ...
>

IMO your variable are already mostly declared. The x and y in
the do_add is kind of a declarartion for the parameters x and
y. 

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From juho.schultz at helsinki.fi  Thu Oct 13 02:43:48 2005
From: juho.schultz at helsinki.fi (Juho Schultz)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:43:48 +0300
Subject: how to make this code faster
In-Reply-To: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dikvn3$lqn$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

ajikoe at gmail.com wrote:
> def f(x,y):
>     return math.sin(x*y) + 8 * x
> I have code like this:
> 
> def main():
>     n = 2000
>     a = zeros((n,n), Float)
>     xcoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
>     ycoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
> 
> 
>     for i in range(n):
>         for j in range(n):
>             a[i,j] = f(xcoor[i], ycoor[j])  # f(x,y) = sin(x*y) + 8*x
> 
>     print a[1000,1000]
>     pass
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     main()
> 
> 
> I try to make this run faster even using psyco, but I found this still
> slow, I tried using java and found it around 8x faster...
> 

I guess the double loop (4E6 rounds) makes your program so slow.

I assume you are using numarray or numeric for this.
The built-in array operations are a lot faster.
Try using them instead. And function calls are not free either.
Xcoor and ycoor are equal, so there is no need to generate them both.

I guess the following would be a lot faster:

def func():
    n = 2000
    a = numarray.zeros((n,n), "Float")
    coor = numarray.arange(0,1,1/float(n))
    
    for i in range(n):
        a[:,i] = numarray.sin(coor*coor[i]) + 8*coor

    print a[1000,1000]
    pass


From who at me.com  Mon Oct 10 00:54:54 2005
From: who at me.com (Free Music)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 04:54:54 GMT
Subject: Unlimited Free Music Downloads  WOW! 100% Legal
Message-ID: <yum2f.51969$lI5.44314@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>

ALL COOL MUSIC





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From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Thu Oct  6 07:44:30 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:44:30 +0200
Subject: /usr/bin/env python, force a version
In-Reply-To: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43450E1E.6010903@designaproduct.biz>

manatlan at gmail.com wrote:

>I've got a trouble, and i think that anybody there can help me
>
>I've got a python script which i distribute in somes packages for *nix.
>This script is full of python and need python 2.4 ! And i'd like to
>display a message when the user doesn't have a python2.4 version.
>  
>
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.version
'2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]'
 >>>

There is also

sys.hexversion
sys.api_version
sys.version_info*

Read this:

*http://docs.python.org/lib/module-sys.html


  Les

**


From ms at cerenity.org  Sat Oct  1 07:53:33 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:53:33 +0100
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no> <Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>
	<dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>
	<mailman.1300.1128116615.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <433e7898$0$49766$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

John J. Lee wrote:
> "Tor Erik S??nvisen" <tores at stud.cs.uit.no> writes:
>> "Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
>> > Tor Erik S?nvisen wrote:
>> >> I need to browse the socket-module source-code. I believe it's
>> >> contained in the file socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file...
>> >> Where should I look?
>> > The source tarball, available on python.org.  Are people really too
>> > lazy to do elementary research on Google?
>> Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google!
...
> Does google vary in its results across the globe?

Aside from Paul Boddie's comment to the effect of "yes", there is a very
important thing that people forget - *no everyone is as good at using a
search engine as others*. People are not simply as good at finding the same
information using the same tools as others.

You liken the problem to a library. If you understand how a library is laid
out, you can find the information alot quicker. If however you're looking
in a library for a book on "how to create those odd things for computers"
and you've been told it involves "python" you're as likely to end up in the
fiction section as you are zoology.

If you can't figure out the right search terms you need, google can be
useless. (That said when that happens to me, I tend to either use
kartoo.com or ask a friend)

The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your google-fu
is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack them at
least...)


Michael.



From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Oct 21 03:56:15 2005
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:56:15 +0000
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <1129795405.446874.294130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129647504.536405.156280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2226.1129659316.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129795405.446874.294130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43589F1F.8080305@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Kay Schluehr wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> 
>>I thought that methods were always overridable.
>>In this case the lookup on the
>>class changes the behaviour of the one and only property.
> 
> 
> How can something be made overridable that is actually overridable? I
> didn't know how to better express the broken polymorphism of Pythons
> properties than by stating it as a pleonasm about the used get and set
> methods. This way a property don't ever have to be redefined in
> subclasses if get_x, set_x etc. are changed. 
> 
> Kay
> 

well I guess that's the ambiguity of human language. Clearly when I 
assign to a normal attribute I am changing its value; assigning to a 
property or descriptor does something that is not so obvious. Changing 
the behaviour of such an attribute could be done by inheritance as 
suggested. The new class has overridden the property. When I want to do 
that on an instance I have first to create a mutable version of the 
descriptor where the mutability is on the instance not the class. I call 
the action of changing the base descriptor behaviour 'overriding', but 
perhaps that's not the correct word. What do you suggest?
-- 
Robin Becker


From rrr at ronadam.com  Tue Oct 25 17:49:38 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:49:38 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <435e998e.950534346@news.oz.net>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9Xs7f.4060$Zd.3377@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<435e998e.950534346@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <SLx7f.213399$p_1.5864@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:20:21 GMT, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

>>Or worse, the dictionary would become not functional depending on what 
>>methods were masked.
>>
>>
>>And this approach reverses that, The dict values will be masked by the 
>>methods, so the values can't effect the dictionary methods.  But those 
>>specific values are only retrievable with the standard dictionary notation.
>>
>>    class namespace(dict):
>>        __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
>>        __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
>>        __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__
>>
>>    n = namespace()
>>    n.__getattr__ = 'yes'    # doesn't mask __getattr__ method.
>>
>>    print n['__getattr__']   -> 'yes'
>>
>>The value is there and __getattr__() still works.  But n.__getattr__ 
>>returns the method not the value.
>>
>>So is there a way to keep the functionality without loosing the methods?
>>
>>
>>BTW, I agree with Steven concerning data structures.  This really isn't 
>>a substitute for a data structure.  Many keys will not work with this.
>>
>>    n.my name = 'Ron'
>>    n.(1,2) = 25
>>    n.John's = [ ... ]
>>
>>The use case I'm thinking of is not as a shortcut for data structures, 
>>but instead, as a way to keep names as names, and maintaining those 
>>names in a group.  Thus the namespace association.
>>
>>   def foo(**kwds):
>>      kwds = namespace(kwds)
>>      print kwds.name
>>      print kwds.value
>>      ...
>>
>>   name = 'ron'
>>   value = 25
>>   foo( name=name, position=position )
>>
> 
> Just had the thought that if you want to add bindings on the fly modifying the
> original object, you could use the __call__ method, e.g.,
> 
>  >>> class NameSpace(dict):
>  ...     __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
>  ...     __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
>  ...     __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__
>  ...     def __call__(self, **upd):
>  ...         self.update(upd)
>  ...         return self
>  ...
>  >>> def show(x): print '-- showing %r'%x; return x
>  ...
>  >>> ns = NameSpace(initial=1)
>  >>> show(ns)
>  -- showing {'initial': 1}
>  {'initial': 1}
> 
> And updating with a second keyword on the fly:
> 
>  >>> show(show(ns)(second=2))
>  -- showing {'initial': 1}
>  -- showing {'second': 2, 'initial': 1}
>  {'second': 2, 'initial': 1}
> 
> FWIW ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Getting better!  ;-)

That (or something similar) might avoid copying the whole thing in some 
situations, which is something I am concerned about.  But how to change 
a dict to a namespace without copying the contents item by item?

I'm not sure where or if this is going anywhere.  It may tie back into 
the properties groups example (see below) I posted earlier and keep 
finding improvements for.  ;-)

cheers,
    Ron




""" GPobject.py

Grouped Properties Object:

This need has presented itself while programming Tkinter
applications where a *LOT* of keywords are used. I think
property groups would also be good for general interface
building.  The external view is of a single cohesive
object, while the internal mechanism keeps the attributes
grouped so they can be forwarded easily as **kwds.

     class foo(GPobject):
         def __init__(self):
             self.properties(name, item_1, item_2, ... item_n)
             def getter():
                 ...
             def setter():
                 ...
             def remover():
                 ...
             self.name.doc( __doc__ string )
             self.name.get = getter
             self.name.set = setter
             self.name.remove = remover

     * The properties() method can also accept a dictionary.
     This will set both the names and the values at the same time.

         self.properties(name, dictionary)

         class myclass(GPobject):
             def __init__(self, **kwds):
                 self.properties('kwds', **kwds)

     * group.setup() allows easy initiation of get, set, remove,
     and doc group settings in one step.

         self.properties( name, *members )
         self.name.setup( get=myget, set='set', del='del',
                          doc='a property group' )

     * Using string flags to indicate default values lets you
     shorten the expression further.

         self.properties( name, *members )
         self.name.setup( myget, 'set', 'del', 'a property group')


The following is only somewhat tested... but it seems to work.
"""

class GPdict(dict):
     doc = "a property group"
     def doc(self, docstring): self.__doc__ = docstring
     def get(self, item): return self[item]
     def set(self, item, value): self[item] = value
     def remove(self, item): del self[item]
     def setup( self, fget='get', fset='set',
                        fdel='del', doc=doc ):
         if fget != 'get': self.get = fget
         if fset != 'set': self.set = fset
         if fdel != 'del': self.remove = fdel
         self.__doc__ = doc

     # Some useful common alternate methods to
     # replace get, set and remove.
     def readonly(self, *args):
         raise AttributeError, 'read only property'
     def setonce(self, item, value):
         if self[item] is None: self[item] = value
         else:
             raise AttributeError, 'set once property'
     def nonremovable(self, *args):
             raise AttributeError, 'non removable property'

class GPobject(object):
     """ an object that can use grouped properties """
     __properties__ = {}
     def __new__(cls, *args, **kwds):
         cls.__properties__ = {}
         return object.__new__(cls, *args, **kwds)
     def properties(self, *args, **kwds):
         dct = GPdict()
         for i in args[1:]:
             dct.setdefault(i,None)
         dct.update(kwds)
         self.__properties__[args[0]] = dct
         self.__dict__[args[0]] = dct
     def __getattr__(self, name):
         for dct in self.__properties__:
             if name in self.__properties__[dct]:
                 return self.__properties__[dct].get(name)
         return self.__dict__[name]
     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
         notprop = True
         for dct in self.__properties__:
             if name in self.__properties__[dct]:
                 self.__properties__[dct].set(name,value)
                 notprop = False
         if notprop:
             self.__dict__[name] = value
     def __delattr__(self, name):
         for dct in self.__properties__:
             if name in self.__properties__[dct]:
                 self.__properties__[dct].remove(name)
                 return
         del self.__dict__[name]



=================
     ### Properties as keyword sorter example,
     ### (sort to groups, not ordered sort)

     class sorter(GPobject):
         text_group = str.split('text fill font')
         line_group = str.split('line fill arrows')
         def __init__( self, text=None, fill=None, line=None,
                       arrows=None, font=None ):
             self.properties('_text', *self.text_group)
             self.properties('_line', *self.line_group)
             self.text = text
             self.fill = fill
             self.line = line
             self.arrows = arrows
             self.font = font

     s = sorter(text='hello', fill='black', line='solid', arrows='both')
     print 's._text =', s._text
     print 's._line =', s._line
     print s.__properties__



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 29 21:18:37 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:18:37 -0400
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <868xwbdcpe.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

qwweeeit at yahoo.it writes:
> My answer is the same as that given to Michael about low level
> programming.
> But I must thank anyway Alex for giving informations to such a level
> (I didn't know that under Linux there was such a level of
> sophistication with the possibility for an application to discover fake
> keystrokes...).
>
> If this fake keystroke is used to fire an event (like pressing a
> button), the fake flag is propagated to the action taken by the button?

The action is internal to the application, so whether or not it
propogates the "fake" flag is up to the application. In between the X
event and the action is the GUI library, which may also choose to not
propogate the flag.

> For the other Alex observations (about Mac OsX and my examples of
> automation centered on web automation) I have a PC, and the fact that
> Python is very good at dealing with the web, doesn't help too much
> in this case...
> In any case a macro language like AutoIt is a general purpose
> application.
>
> At last I must thank  Mike Meyer for his suggestion to use python-xlib
> to avoid low level programming...

Just to clarify - python-xlib will let you avoid the need for C
functions to do things like send X events. In that sense, it helps you
avoid low-level programming. On the other hand, you're still sending X
events, so in *that* sense, you're not avoiding low-level programming.

In general, application scripting facilities are one thing that Unix
hasn't dealt with well. Windows and OS X both do better (but neither
do as well later versions of AmigaDOS). Whereas those systems come
with a (or a selection) mechanism that applications can use to allow
macro programming, Unix doesn't, so each application is left up to
it's own devices. The most popular solution is to embed a custom
language for scripting - which is where something like Python comes
in. Some of them now export APIs that can be hooked up to a variety of
languages.  IIRC, Gnome has embraced CORBA as an interface for such,
but it didn't seem well supported the last time I looked. The bottom
line is that when it comes to scripting applications on Unix, your
solution is going to be tailored to the application.

The Unix variant with the best system-provided scripting facility is
probably Plan 9. Some Linux variants are moving in that direction, but
I don't know of any Linux applications that provide support for it.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From louis_pastorik at symantec.com  Wed Oct 26 13:32:33 2005
From: louis_pastorik at symantec.com (louis_pastorik at symantec.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 10:32:33 -0700
Subject: 64 bit python binaries (or builds) for Xeon and Opteron architectures
	on Windows platforms
Message-ID: <1130347953.003322.288350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Does anyone have any information about 64 bit python support for Xeon
and Opteron architectures on Windows platforms? If anyone has built the
python runtime on either of these platforms before I would be really
interested. Thanks.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:09:25 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:09:25 -0700
Subject: Wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <1129053625.591216.116340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<3r2c91FhamghU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129053625.591216.116340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <digv4n$fno$1@sea.gmane.org>

Java and Swing wrote:

> When I compile, I get two warnings..which are ok.  Then when I build my
> DLL I get..
> 
> Linking...
>    Creating library Release/MyDLL.lib and object Release/MyDLL.exp
> test.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _PyBuildValue
> Release/MyDLL.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
> Error executing link.exe.
> 
> MyDLL.dll - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)
> 
> ..Any ideas?

Are you using distutils to build your extension module? You should be.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Oct 23 04:13:47 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 01:13:47 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130055226.967456.266220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for the comments, Fredrik Lundh.

>(that's (mostly) CPython-dependent, and should be avoided)<

Then a non CPython-dependent way of doing it can be even more useful.


>sure looks like four possible outcomes.<

Right (but to me four explicit answers seem better than three answers
and an exception still).


>id(a)<

I think in Python it can be something more like (but it's of little
use):
def identity(x): return x
Or:
identity = lambda x: x


>(cloning is usually a sign of a design problem in python.  if you think
you need it, you probably don't.  if you really think you need it,
import
copy.)<

I agree (importing a module is worse than using a standard copy method,
but I think this can be seen as a way to discourage the use of copy in
Python).


>if you can define the semantics, it's a few lines of code.  if you're not
sure about the semantics, a built-in won't help you...<

I think the language needs a fast built-in version of it. If something
is both inside Mathematica and Ruby, then probably it can be useful in
Python too :-)

Bye and thank you,
bearophile



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 20 18:03:26 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:03:26 +0200
Subject: Set operations for lists: pythonic hints please!
In-Reply-To: <1129842342.308921.201270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129842342.308921.201270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rqiheFkv765U1@uni-berlin.de>

jmdeschamps at gmail.com wrote:
> Working with several thousand tagged items on a Tkinter Canvas, I want
> to change different configurations of objects having a certain group of
> tags.
> 
> I've used the sets module, on the tuple returned by Tkinter.Canvas.
> find_withtag() method.
> 
> Since this method takes only one tag at time, I use it for each tag
> that is part of the look-up group, create a set object for each tuple
> and intersect the resulting sets, that I tuple out again to feed a loop
> to change the configuration of the items.
> 
> Anyone have a more pythonic way (or better performing ) way to suggest
> ?

It depends. If the search on tags is implemented linear, it might be 
better to loop over all items and filter suing a compound predicate, 
like this:

rouge_artefacts = [item for m1.all_itmes() if item.has_tag("rouge") and 
item.has_tag("artefact")]

Please note that I don't know TKinter's API, but I can't imagine that it 
lacks the possibility to fettch a list of all items and query an item 
for it tags. The synopsis may vary from above, thogh.

But if tkinter stores the tagged items as mapping of tag -> set/list, 
then I think your approach is as fast as you can get. Time it out. And 
maybe another thing would be to manage that tagging relation yourself.

Regards,

Diez


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 00:37:17 2005
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An interesting question about "print '\a'"
Message-ID: <20051024043717.48540.qmail@web35805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

We know that if we do

print '\a'

the bell will sound.

Now, why do I hear the sound on my local machine when
I run a python script on a remote host?

I understand if I hear it when I do 

print '\a'

on my local machine.

Does the command get sent back to the client machine?

Thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Tue Oct  4 20:01:20 2005
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:01:20 -0700
Subject: py2exe has a new maintainer
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F3815F9@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

I am taking over the maintenance and support of py2exe from Thomas
Heller. As he announced a few weeks ago he is looking to focus on other
things. py2exe has been very useful to me over the years and I look
forward to keeping it every bit as useful in the future.

I plan to make the transition as smooth as possible for users of py2exe.
I don't plan to make changes to the license other than adding my name to
the list of people not to sue. I will try to be as helpful as Thomas has
been in supporting py2exe on the py2exe mailing list and
comp.lang.python. The mailing list, the SourceForge project, and the
Wiki will continue in their current locations. The web site is moving to
http://www.py2exe.org and the old site will forward to the new one so
any bookmarks should still work.

I will be releasing version 0.6.3 very soon with a few changes Thomas
and others have made over the last few weeks. After that my priorities
for py2exe will be:

- Support
- Documentation (which should help familiarize me with the code)
- Automated tests (to point out when I haven't familiarized myself
enough)
- Bug fixes

Any help on any of these fronts will be greatly appreciated.

After I feel comfortable with things, I hope to work with other projects
in the Python packaging community (e.g., cx_Freeze,
PyInstaller/McMillan, py2app, setuptools, etc.) to see if we can't find
synergies that will make all of them better. I recognize that different
packagers are better for different audiences because of licensing,
platform, Python versions, and module support among other things.
Working together on the common parts (identifying dependencies,
customized handling of modules with unique needs, etc.) should make all
of the packagers serve their niches better.

I'd like to thank Thomas for the great work he's done with py2exe over
the years. He's set a very high standard for me to try and maintain.

Jimmy


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 18 02:20:56 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 06:20:56 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 

[ w3c "standard" v.s. ISO ]

> You haven't said why you thinbk "standards" are more valuable than 
> "recommendations". We apparently both agree they're no more likely to be 
> observed, so what is the reason? 

That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML recommendation by 
w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, and mixing them up by 
calling both standards is a bad thing.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Oct 25 07:21:39 2005
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:21:39 -0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130237717.557334.277910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ll0hlu4c.fsf@ieee.org>

"Joerg Schuster" <joerg.schuster at gmail.com> writes:

> No limitation at all would be best. If a limitation is necessary, then
> the more capturing groups, the better. At the time being, I would be
> really happy about having the possibility to use 10000 capturing
> groups.

I'm sorry, I missed the beginning of this thread and it has already expired on
my news server, but what is the reason for so much capturing groups?  I
imagine that coding this and keeping code maintenable is a huge effort.  Oh,
and I came from Perl, where I used to think in regexps...  In Python I almost
never use them. 

-- 
Jorge Godoy      <godoy at ieee.org>


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Mon Oct 10 18:02:36 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:02:36 -0700
Subject: how to check if file is in use?
In-Reply-To: <434ad15a$0$26210$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>
References: <434ad15a$0$26210$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <20051010220236.GA9066@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 10, Stefan Siegel wrote:
> can anybody give me (a python newbie) give a hint how to check in
> python wether a file is in use by another program?

This was previously discussed on c.l.py.  In short, "you can't".  A
detailed answer is in this thread:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-May/165908.html

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 15:12:33 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:12:33 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
Message-ID: <dibq2v$fvi$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Stapleton wrote

> Except it is interpreted.

except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte code, which
is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a module is up
to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.

> What is your point?

that some people have trouble distinguishing interpreters from compilers,
and find mixed paradigms confusing?

</F> 





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 11:28:39 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:28:39 +0200
Subject: cgi python
References: <1129215225.778017.20340@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129216439.418378.308760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diluf8$8hk$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Boddie wrote:

> Testing Web applications can be hard, but the traceback tells you
> everything you need to know here.

especially if you make sure to use the cgitb module:

    http://docs.python.org/lib/module-cgitb.html

while developing/debugging.

</F>





From maketo at norge.freeshell.org  Sun Oct 16 16:52:10 2005
From: maketo at norge.freeshell.org (Ognen Duzlevski)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:52:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <diuehq$dvb$1@chessie.cirr.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:16:39 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:

> >     It turned out that the VAX compiler had been
> > clever enough to hoist his simple-minded test
> > code out of the driving loop. 

> Optimizations have a tendency to make a complete mess of Big O
> calculations, usually for the better. How does this support your
> theory that Big O is a reliable predictor of program speed?

There are many things that you cannot predict, however if the compiler was sufficiently documented and you had the 
knowledge of the abovementioned peculiarity/optimization, you could take it into account. Bear in mind that the example 
was given to show a problem with a purely experimental approach - it tends to show a tree and ignore the forest. 
Sometimes this tree can be respresentative of a forest but many times it might not be.

The way I understood these notations was in terms of algorithmic behavior and data input sizes. It is generally 
expected that certain basic operations will have a certain complexity. If this is not the case on a 
particular platform (language, interpreter, cpu etc.) then there are several questions to ask: a) is such a deviation 
documented?, b) why is there such a deviation in the first place? For example, if something is generally known to be 
O(1) and your particular platform makes it O(n) then you have to ask why that is so. There might be a 
perfectly good reason but this should still either be obvious or documented.

IMHO, I would rather first explore the theoretical boundaries to a certain approach before wasting time on coding up 
stuff. If it is immediately obvious that such an approach will not yield anything acceptable for my own purposes then 
what is the point of squeezing performance out of what will be dead-beat code anyways? 

Knowing the tool/language/os in depth is a formidable strength and it is always a pleasure to see someone squeeze time 
out of a piece of code solely based on knowing the internals of the compiler and/or runtime environment. However, it is 
most usually the case that this person will be squeezing time out of a certain order of performance - no amount of 
this kind of optimization will move the code to the next order.

Ognen


From a_mccarthy at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 28 09:59:40 2005
From: a_mccarthy at hotmail.com (Andrew McCarthy)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:59:40 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>

On 2005-10-28, pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm now down to:
>
> f = open("filename", "rb")
> s = f.read()
> sub = "\x00\x00\x01\x00"
> count = s.count(sub)
> print count
>
> Which is quite fast. The only problems is that the file might be huge.
> I really have no need for reading the entire file into a string as I am
> doing here. All I want is to count occurences this substring. Can I
> somehow count occurences in a file without reading it into a string
> first?

Yes - use memory mapping (the mmap module). An mmap object is like a
cross between a file and a string, but the data is only read into RAM
when, and for as long as, necessary. An mmap object doesn't have a
count() method, but you can just use find() in a while loop instead.

Andrew


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 12:12:34 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:12:34 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<m3ll0h8u2t.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:00:58 -0500, joe wrote:

> In other words, I was recognizing that a lot of
> people don't think what MS does is a crime, and until MS gets
> convicted of a crime, it's a matter of opinion. I was trying to say
> something else.


And again, they HAVE been convicted of crimes, plural, and not just in one
court, but in multiple, in the US, Japan, Europe, and in civil suits in
front of juries.

Apologists for Microsoft like David Schwartz seem to be taking a
three-prong argument:

"They haven't done the things you say, and even if they have, they aren't
illegal, and even if they are illegal, they shouldn't be."

The first two points are factually wrong, and the third is an opinion
based on the concept, as far as I can see, that Microsoft should be
allowed to do anything they like, even if those actions harm others.



-- 
Steven.



From martin.witte at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 14:56:23 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 11:56:23 -0700
Subject: Controlling exception handling of logging module
In-Reply-To: <1129746812.846802.216550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129746812.846802.216550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129748183.204853.75350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

make the second statement 'logging.info("%d %d", 1, 2)' or
'logging.info("%d %d %d", 1, 2, 3)', and all works. for every argument
you want to log you need one format specifier



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Sat Oct 15 14:02:16 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:02:16 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
>>> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
>>> mainframe terminals.
>> 
>> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
>> at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
>> running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.

> Peter, if you are serious, and not just pulling our legs, your memory is
> failing. 

Well, it might be a bit off. I am talking about 1986.

> MS-DOS 1.0 came out in August 1981; SunOS 3.0 in February 1986.

Seems about right. 

So what version of msdos was around at that time? Obviously I didn't
use it!

> Sun Microsystems was incorporated (with four employees) in February 1982.
> There never was a SunOS 3.8.  (SunOS 3.5 was succeeded by 4.0.)  And I'm

It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?

> not sure what you mean by "Sun 360"--a Sun 3/60, maybe?

Seems likely. I recall it as a Sun 360m. "Monica" by name, following
the cpu serial number, mncaxxx (or something close). "Sun 3" definitely
rings a bell.

Peter


From netvaibhav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 22:02:16 2005
From: netvaibhav at gmail.com (netvaibhav at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 19:02:16 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2705.1130622374.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2705.1130622374.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130637600.659212.66140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Steve Holden wrote:
> Indeed, but reading one byte at a time is about the slowest way to
> process a file, in Python or any other language, because it fails to
> amortize the overhead cost of function calls over many characters.
>
> Buffering wasn't invented because early programmers had nothing better
> to occupy their minds, remember :-)

Buffer, and then read one byte at a time from the buffer.

Vaibhav



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct  1 18:09:48 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 17:09:48 -0500
Subject: Printing and prompting adds a mysterious extra space
In-Reply-To: <20051001214428.GA22491@torf.workaround.org>
References: <mailman.1324.1128191337.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128197861.418869.221640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051001214428.GA22491@torf.workaround.org>
Message-ID: <20051001220948.GA3403@unpythonic.net>

Use sys.stdout.write instead of print.  It will solve these problems you are
having.

If you really want to know what's going on, read the language manual,
http://docs.python.org/ref/print.html It explains the behavior of this extra
space, which is output by a successive 'print' statement.  The implementation
uses an attribute called 'softspace', which is described in
http://docs.python.org/lib/bltin-file-objects.html 

Jeff
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From grunar at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 19:04:01 2005
From: grunar at gmail.com (grunar at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 16:04:01 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202205340.13901@urchin.earth.li>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2310.1129819963.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129823975.023490.287440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202205340.13901@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1129849441.603557.160990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, grunar at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On this line of thought, what about the += operator?  That might be more
> > intuative than //.  I could even use -= for not in.
>
> You're going to have to explain to me how using an assignment operator for
> something other than assignment is intuitive!
>
> -1 on this one from me, i'm afraid.
Point.  I do think it looks strange, because we're used to seeing += in
code.  But the concept is more along the lines of the  == and !=
comparison operators.
Python does expose other nice things, such as &= and %=, which (since
people aren't used to seeing them used much), might be better
candidates.  Does %= seem more agreeable?  (I'm already using % for a
like statement).

So, a statement could look like this:

person ** (
  (person.type_id == 'customer')
  & (person.id %= phone(phone.person_id)))
)

becomes:

select * from person
where person.type_id = 'customer'
and person.id in (select person_id from phone)


> Using 'in' would be good. It does require some truly puke-inducing
> contortions, though; since 'in' calls __contains__ on the right-hand
> operand, and that's likely to be a list, or some other type that's not
> under your control, you have to cross your fingers and hope that whatever
> it is implements __contains__ with equality tests with the probe object on
> the left-hand side and the candidates on the right (as lists do, at least
> in 2.4.1). then, you just have to make your table names do the right thing
> when compared to strings.
>
__contains__, while allowing side-effects on the object in question
(even if though it's on the right), only returns true/false (not a
custom object) afaik, so it breaks in a complex expression  --  (a ==
b) & (c in d), won't work.  You could modify D, but you can't pass that
value to the whole Condition Expression.



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Oct  1 14:59:35 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 11:59:35 -0700
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128193175.298947.78350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Nufox seems a really interesting thing (probably it can even be used to
design GUIs for local desktop apps), but the site seems down at the
moment.

Bye,
bearophile



From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 26 04:46:07 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:46:07 +0200
Subject: p2exe using wine/cxoffice
References: <mailman.327.1126647088.509.python-list@python.org>
	<rcaii1h463ojaita1t4hbin0g3filgfoen@4ax.com>
	<200509151243.53106.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<mailman.2575.1130313112.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <irvkr7hs.fsf@python.net>

Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> writes:

> James Stroud wrote:
>
>> "better". The only reason I want this functionality is to make my software
>> available to windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they are
>> people too. That's what I always say.
>
> Actually, I think it's many unix/linux users who are ignorant of just
> how nice, stable and productive Windows can be as a desktop environment.
>
> ... and I really mean that.  ;-).

I was waiting for someone to say that.

+1.

Thomas


From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Mon Oct  3 02:06:05 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:06:05 +0200
Subject: Parrot & Python ? 
References: <4340393e$0$16536$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<W5qdnWzLZLucyt3eRVn-2Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4340cdfc$0$4298$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !

Thank for links.

@-salutations

Michel Claveau 




From jon_usenet at capisco.com  Fri Oct 14 12:11:51 2005
From: jon_usenet at capisco.com (jon)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:11:51 -0700
Subject: array subset could be improved? -repost ;)
In-Reply-To: <dioa3k$4g0$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
References: <dioa3k$4g0$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1129306311.917537.184890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Jim O'D wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I have an array a=array([2,3,-1]).
>
> I want to extract an array with all the elements of a that are less than 0.
>
> Method 1.
> new = array([i for i in a if i < 0])
>
> Method 2.
> new = a[nonzero(a<0)]
>
> I'm using Numeric arrays but can't seem to find a function that does this.
>
> Am I missing a more obvious way to do it quickly?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim

a2=Numeric.compress(a<0,a)



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Oct 23 05:57:01 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 02:57:01 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2432.1130059481.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130055226.967456.266220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2432.1130059481.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130061421.835890.156890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you Fredrik Lundh for showing everybody that indeed lot of people
feel the need of such function in Python too.

>to create a generic version, you have to decide which sequences to treat like sequences<

In my version I give the function some parameter(s) to define what I
want to flatten. I'll probably put it in the cookbook...

Bye,
Bearophile



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 12:31:23 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:31:23 +0200
Subject: Changing an AST
References: <1128941690.030540.258790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1835.1128943073.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128944299.588849.167030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <die50u$ni6$1@sea.gmane.org>

"beza1e1" wrote:

> Thank you! this "compile/exec in context" is the thing i wanted.
>
> It is not that performant i think.

it's about as fast as it can get, as long as you only call compile when
the expressions change.   (the example didn't show it, but the "expr"
code object can of course be reused with different contexts)

</F>





From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 26 04:37:42 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 08:37:42 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-25, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:09:29 -0400, Christopher Subich wrote:
>
>>>>By analogy, one can ask, "is the cat inside the box?" and get the answer
>>>>"No", but this does not imply that therefore the box must be inside the
>>>>cat.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bad analogy, this doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset
>>> relationship does.
>> 
>> Yes, it does.  Consider "in" as a mathematical operator:
>>
>> For the set (box, cat-in-box)
>> 
>> box in box: False
>> box in cat-in-box: False
>> cat-in-box in box: True
>> cat-in-box in cat-in-box: False
>> 
>> For the set (box, smart-cat) # cat's too smart to get in the box
>> 
>> box in box: False
>> box in smart-cat: False
>> smart-cat in box: False
>> smart-cat in smart-cat: False
>> 
>> In both these cases, the "in" operator is irreflexive, asymmetric, and 
>> transitive (extend to mouse-in-cat if you really care about transitive), 
>> so "in" is a partial order sans equality.  A useless one, but a partial 
>> order nonetheless.
>
> What do you mean "in" is a useless ordering? It makes a huge difference
> whether "nuclear bomb in New York" is true or not.
>
> In fact, I'm quite surprised that Antoon should object to "in" as "this
> doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset relationship does" when
> "subset" is just "in" for sets: set S is a subset of set T if for all
> elements x in S, x is also in T. Informally, subset S is in set T.

I was misunderstaning where Christopher was heading to.

> Can somebody remind me, what is the problem Antoon is trying to solve here?

Well there are two issues. One about correct behaviour and one about
practicallity.

The first problem is cmp. This is what the documentation states:

cmp(x, y)
    Compare the two objects x and y and return an integer according to
    the outcome. The return value is negative if x < y, zero if x == y
    and strictly positive if x > y. 

The problem is, that if someone implements a partial ordered class,
with the rich comparisons, cmp doesn't behave correct. It can't
behave correct because it will always give an number as a result
and such a number implies one of three relations between two
elements, but with partial ordered classes, it is possible none
of these relations exist between those two elements. So IMO cmp
should be changed to reflect this. This can be done either by cmp
returning None or UnequalValues.  or by cmp raising UnequalValues
in such a case.

The second part is one of practicallity. Once you have accepted cmp,
should reflect this possibility, it makes sense that the __cmp__
method should get the same possibilities, so that where it is more
pratical to do so, the programmer can implement his partial order
through one __cmp__ method instead of having to write six.


In my opinion such a change would break no existing code. This
is because there are two possibilities.

1) The user is using cmp on objects that form a total order.
In such circumstances the behaviour of cmp doesn't change.

2) The user is using cmp on objects that don't form a total
order. In such circumstances cmp doesn't give consistent
results, so the code is already broken.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Oct 26 15:19:17 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:19:17 -0700
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A6@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
References: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A6@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
Message-ID: <200510261219.17059.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Wednesday 26 October 2005 07:20, Tim Golden wrote:
> I'm sure you're right: given moderately naive users, a Windows box
> is *extremely* likely to be zombified. It's just that it doesn't
> have to be that way with the proper care and attention.

With $200 dollars of antivirus software (on top of the $200 OS), incessant 
reminding of users to not open email attachments or install "free" 
screensavers and such, disabling vbasic on every program, daily iterations 
through the windoze updating cycle, and putting the machine behind a Linux 
firewall, your windows machine probably wont get zombified. Or you could just 
do the reasonable thing and erase the hard drive and install Linux.



-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 09:16:50 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:16:50 +0200
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
References: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com> <di0f0b$k9m$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<4343C318.3090902@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <di0jo3$4of$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brandon K" wrote:

> Here's the Script it was being used in (forgive it if it seems a bit
> messy, i have been tinkering with variables and such to try different
> ideas and haven't really cleaned it up).

the C compiler does in fact provide you with some clues:

c:\test\c_lib.cpp(22) : warning C4700: local variable 'c' used without having been initialized

here's the culprit:

    Py_complex *c;
    Complex* cplx;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"D",c)) return NULL;

PyArg_ParseTuple expects a pointer to a Py_complex object, but you're
passing in an initialized pointer.  this works better:

    Py_complex c;
    Complex* cplx;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"D",&c))
        return NULL;
    cplx = new Complex(&c);
    return Py_BuildValue("D",cplx->toOld());

here's the next warning:

c:\test\complex.cpp(50) : warning C4700: local variable 'c' used without having been initialized

this is your toOld function, which has a similar problem:

    Py_complex* Complex::toOld(void)
    {
        Py_complex* c;
        c->real = this->real;
        c->imag = this->imag;
        return c;
    }

since c isn't initialized, you'll overwrite some random memory locations when
you assign things to it.  here's a brute-force hack:

Py_complex* Complex::toOld(void)
{
    static Py_complex c;
    c.real = this->real;
    c.imag = this->imag;
    return &c;
}

here's a better fix:

Py_complex Complex::toOld(void)
{
    Py_complex c;
    c.real = this->real;
    c.imag = this->imag;
    return c;
}

which requires you to change

 return Py_BuildValue("D",cplx->toOld());

to

 return Py_BuildValue("D",&cplx->toOld());

I only got this far before I ran out of time; there might be more bugs in there.

</F> 





From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 22:21:38 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:21:38 -0400
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.08.02.35.26.638321@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F63D623924CCD69E73A460A2870@phx.gbl>

Yes, I realize that. . .Heres another question then. I was trying somehting 
before so that if the user just pressed enter by accident, it would not 
accept the input and ask them to put in another. But the thing is I couldnt 
get it to work. I tryed if choice1 == None it would loop and ask for a new 
input but that didnt seem to work. . .Any ideas for that?


Thanks,
Ivan

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



From eric.pederson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 01:06:32 2005
From: eric.pederson at gmail.com (eric.pederson at gmail.com)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 22:06:32 -0700
Subject: The missing ingredient?
Message-ID: <1128920791.974347.313090@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Python is a great programming language, and it seems there was a sense
of fun in developing it -- as far as I can ascertain, it wasn't exactly
brought to life to comply with Government tax regulations; or to assist
a consigliere with covering up ghastly mob crimes ala "Godfather".

Though there is some guy named Guido involved... [and not neccesarily
Father Guido Sarducci...]


Is Python still as fun to develop (develop, not develop in)?  Can the
pioneers weigh in on this?

"Fun" is held by many to be the (or one of the) most creative,
inventive, and productive frames of mind.

For example I suspect, despite all the varied things they may be
exposed to, very few patents are filed by IRS agents; unless, perhaps,
they get ideas while unwinding late at night watching Monty Python
reruns (which activity may be career limiting in Government service!)


Is developing the next iteration/step-forward in Python still as fun as
the old days?  Is it fun?

What can we do to keep Python (development of and development in) as
fun as possible?

[this post triggered by reading this article on "-Ofun" here:
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7996]


EP



From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Thu Oct  6 20:25:43 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 17:25:43 -0700
Subject: Newbie using python to update sql table
Message-ID: <1128644743.257310.117320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I have created a python program that takes a flat file and changes some
of the data and create a new flat file with the changes.  Part of this
process requires that I try to find a particular model car in an MS Sql
table.  This part of the program is now working great.

It has come to my attention that some of the information in the flat
file could be used to update our information in the MS Sql table that I
currently run the query on.  Basicly I create a recordset of vehicles
from the MS Sql table based on vehicle year and make and once I have
this recordset I run it through logic which does a reqular expression
compare on the vehicle VIN no to the
VIN number in the table to get a match.  I would like to update this
record in the table with info. in the flat file.  I believe there
should be some way to update the fields in this record of the recordset
and then update the table.  I am not an sql expert and would appreciate
someone pointing me in the right direction.  Contained below is a
listing of my code;

# The following code creates a connection object,
# assigns the connection string, opens the
# connection object, and then verifies a good
# connection.

oConn = Dispatch('ADODB.Connection')

oConn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;" +\
                         "Data Source=uicesv05;" +\
                         "uid=aiis;" +\
                         "pwd=aiis;" +\
                         "database=auto_mo_001"

oConn.Open()
if oConn.State == adStateOpen:
    print "Database connection SUCCEEDED"
else:
    print "Database connection FAILED"

# The following code creates a command object,
# assigns the command to the connection object,
# sets the query, creates the parameters objects to
# be passed to the command object and requests the
# query to be prepared (compiled by the SQL system).

oCmd = Dispatch('ADODB.Command')
oCmd.ActiveConnection = oConn
oCmd.CommandType = adCmdText

oCmd.CommandText = """\
SELECT
    VA_MK_YEAR,VA_MK_DESCRIP,VO_VIN_NO,VO_MODEL,VO_BODY,
    VO_DESCRIPTION,VO_MODEL_ID
FROM D014800 INNER JOIN D014900
    ON VA_MK_NUMBER_VER = VO_MAKE_NO AND
        VA_MK_YEAR = VO_YEAR
WHERE VA_MK_YEAR = ? AND VA_MK_DESCRIP = ?
"""

vyear = ''
vmake = ''
oParmYear = oCmd.CreateParameter(vyear,adChar,adParamInput)
oParmYear.Size = 4
oParmMake = oCmd.CreateParameter(vmake,adChar,adParamInput)
oParmMake.Size = 10

oCmd.Parameters.Append(oParmYear)
oCmd.Parameters.Append(oParmMake)

oCmd.Prepared = True

...

def wrkveh(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkveh function does an SQL record lookup to try an select
    the correct vehicle in the V1sta make and model files.  If the
    correct model is found I move V1sta's make model and body
    descriptions to the flat file.  Currently, I hard code a 1 for
    vehicle use.  The drive segment is an occurs 6"""
    cnt = 0
    vehwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart:strstart + 10] == '          ':
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 133]
        else:
            vmake = ifile[strstart:strstart + 10]
            vyear = ifile[strstart + 98:strstart + 102]
            vvin4_8 = ifile[strstart +53:strstart + 58]
            vmodel = ''
            vbody = ''
            oParmYear.Value = vyear
            oParmMake.Value = vmake
            (oRS, result) = oCmd.Execute()
            while not oRS.EOF:
                wvin =
oRS.Fields.Item("VO_VIN_NO").Value.replace('*','.')
                wvin.replace('*','.')
                wvin = wvin[0:5]
                r1 = re.compile(wvin)
                if r1.match(vvin4_8):
                    vmake = oRS.Fields.Item("VA_MK_DESCRIP").Value
                    vmodel = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_MODEL").Value
                    vbody = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_DESCRIPTION").Value
                    vmodelid = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_MODEL_ID").Value
                    print 'DRC model ' + vmake + ' ' + vyear + ' ' +
vmodel + \
                          ' ' + vmodelid
                    break
                else:
                    oRS.MoveNext()
            else:
                print 'DRC model NOT FOUND'
            vehwrk = vehwrk + vmake + vmodel + vbody
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart + 50:strstart + 107]
            vehwrk = vehwrk + '1'
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart + 108:strstart + 133]
        strstart += 133
        cnt += 1

    return vehwrk



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 16:13:43 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:13:43 -0400
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
	<1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2540.1130243790.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130245185.304132.110840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130254148.192702@yasure> <baqsl11obg1n34i09f888rqh2jdi5d92nt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <864q754ao8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
> 	Followed by the Amiga... The Amiga IPC used "message ports" (linked
> lists owned by the creating process to which, if "public" [named], other
> processes could send message packets). The Amiga port of REXX made use
> of message ports as its native IPC...
>
> address SOME_APPLICATION
>
> would redirect all "non-REXX" statements to the message port named
> "SOME_APPLICATION"; the default being "address COMMAND" -- a shell
> interpreter. Then, any non-REXX statement would be processed by the
> shell interpreter -- and the easiest way to force a non-REXX statement
> was to put a quote mark around it (or the first word of it)
>
> "delete" my_file_var
>
> would translate my_file_var to whatever had been assigned to it earlier,
> and pass a delete command to the shell.
>
> address ED
>
> would now route such statements to the "ed" editor

These things weren't unique to the Amiga port of Rexx. Rexx on VM/CMS
did all these things. Tying them to the native IPC mechanism as a
brilliant move. Add in the shared library for supporting Rexx so that
adding Rexx support to an application (or to a language!) was trivial,
and Rexx the end result was that Rexx was used far more heavily on the
Amiga than on VM/CMS.

The downside was that variables had a default value of their name in
upper case, and any statement that wasn't recognized evaluated as a
string expresion and then fed to the current command processor. So
that the quote marks weren't needed - if you hadn't assigned a value
to the variable delete, then you could just do

   delete my_file_var

and it would do the right thing. Of course, almost anything you typed
like that was valid, creating interesting bugs. I made it a habit to
keep "0" and "1" commands around that just logged errors, as those
would catch such things.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 21:21:46 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:21:46 -0700
Subject: sort problem
References: <4357c22d$0$8481$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
	<1129825485.883210.297890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4357c9a4$0$8498$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
Message-ID: <1h4qxx1.flepxy1fwdhunN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michele Petrazzo <michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it> wrote:

> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> > How about:
> > 
> > list.sort(key=lambda x: x[3])
> > 
> > Does that work?
> 
> Yes, on my linux-test-box it work, but I my developer pc I don't have
> the 2.4 yet. I think that this is a good reason for update :)

Updating is a good idea, and will let you get even faster by avoiding
the lambda:

import operator

thelist.sort(key=operator.itemgetter(3))

However, until you can upgrade you might be happy enough with a direct
implementation of the decorate-sort-undecorate (DSU) idiom which they
new "key=" named argument to sort implements.  To wit:

aux = [ (x[3], x) for x in thelist ]
aux.sort()
thelist[:] = [ x[-1] for x in aux ]

Note that the "decoration" can include as many "columns" as you want,
transformations obtained by calling int(...) or str(...) on some of the
columns, and so on.  This applies to "key=" in 2.4 just as well as to
the (slightly slower) direct implementation in 2.3 and earlier.


Alex


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 19 04:42:03 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:42:03 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <8l1cl1plroff0mt8asqk1j8pocaf7kormo@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:16:32 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    No, I did not. I said that their obligation is to their shareholders.
>
>> If that is not what you mean, I think you need to hedge more.
>
>    I was perfectly clear. This is a lot of deliberate misunderstanding 
>going on in this thread and very little of it is from my side.
>

You have a problem because there are many other people saying similar
things to you who mean something much more extreme. If you don't
intend that, you need to be more precise in your language.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 26 19:20:44 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:20:44 -0400
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <1130311678.936969.302020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Luidnc2OvoJ9u8PeRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130311678.936969.302020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <PKSdnaDh3tTOkv3eRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> yes of course the traceback could be helpfull so here it is...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "App1.py", line 6, in ?
>   File "Frame1.pyc", line 16, in ?
>   File "brain.pyc", line 4, in ?
>   File "xml\dom\ext\reader\__init__.pyc", line 20, in ?
> LookupError: unknown encoding: utf-8

Which version of py2exe are you using?

Does this page help? 
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/EncodingsAgain

-Peter


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct  1 11:59:16 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 11:59:16 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> Unless your compiler detects and flags passing private variables to
>> external functions all you've got is a convention that you don't pass
>> private variables to external functions.
> Yes, the point is that it's something that you can check for by
> examining the class in question without having to examine any other
> classes.

That's a pretty restrictive convention to follow. For instance, I
might want an error dialog to be a private variable of a class
representing a window - after all, I don't want anyone else writing to
it, or using it in any way. Except, of course, for any GUI framework
routines I have to pass it to in order to use it. This problem crops
up for every utility routine in every library I might want to
use. Opening files by name, concatenatting strings (or are we going to
have a convention that implicit invocation of functions with the
operator syntax don't count, and another one that you don't overload
operators with destructive functions, and so on), etc.

So it turns out that getting the behavior you desire involves
following a lot of conventions.

>> I you going to try and tell me thas using builtin functions on
>> private variables is something you don't allow in your projects?
>
> You have to treat builtin functions as part of the language.  Of
> course Python has this situation where someone could rebind the name
> "len" to some other function, so you have to deal with that too, maybe
> just at the file scope.

File scope isn't good enough for python.

import madhouse
madhouse.len = my_len_breaker
fool = madhouse.Fool()
print fool.break()

and fool._foo is broken again.

> An OOP approach (lst.len() instead of len(lst)) that binds the
> builtin names to datatypes might be preferable in some situations
> but I'll leave that one for the theorists.

In other words, to get this to work the way you want, you need yet
another convention - this one being about how one goes about writing
utility functions. It may be that you can design a language and
support libraries so that the compiler can enforce all your
conventions. There are languages that try to do that. I recall one I
ran into in the 70s that distinguished between "functions" (which
returned values) and "procedures" (which had side effects), and the
compiler enforced (or tried to) the distinction. I think you'd need
something like that.

But that isn't what we've got. What we've got is Python. Which means
you need a whole boatload of conventions to make this work the way you
want.

In other words, by adding private to python, you're making it so that
bugs involving overwriting a private attribute will involve only the
owning classes code so long as everyone follows the conventions that
exist about the use of such variables.

This should be contrasted with the current situation, where bugs that
involve overwriting an _-prefixed attribute will involve only the
owning classes code so long as everyone follows the conventions that
exist about the use of such variables.

Yeah, I guess private makes things a lot better.

>> Of course, there's nothing wrong with catching errors earlier. Might I
>> suggest that you file a change request for pylint (or your favorite
>> error checker) asking that it start issuing warnings for
>> object._variable?
>
> I don't see how pylint could know which instances to flag, without
> doing type inference on all the objects to know that the variable
> belonged to an instance of some other class.

I was thinking it would flag any use of such a variable where the
target variable wasn't "self". That may be a stronger constraint than
you wanted - but that's good, right?

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 09:05:34 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:05:34 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
In-Reply-To: <20051007124153.GA8760@phenix.progiciels-bpi.ca>
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>	<devbk1l6ql5ml0t24mbr5ubba0m01gsdn2@4ax.com>	<di514r$kr7$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20051007124153.GA8760@phenix.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <di5rr1$pn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> [Robert Kern]
> 
>>[...] an ODE integrator would probably want to adaptively select its
>>timesteps as opposed to laying out a uniform discretization upfront.
> 
> Eons ago, I gave myself such a little beast (but really found in an
> Appendix of a book on simulation), which I use since then whenever I
> need it, not so often in these days.  If you are curious, see:
> 
>   http://fp-etc.progiciels-bpi.ca/rke.html
> 
> yet I'm sure there is just plenty of such things, all around.
> 
> The above is in C, not in Python.  I vaguely remember having once
> rewritten the thing in Python, then discarded the result as not fast
> enough for the need I then had.  If I really needed to use it nowadays,
> I'll probably try to quickly link it through Pyrex.  Or just look around
> a bit for some already made, and maybe better solution. :-)

scipy has wrapped LSODA and VODE from ODEPACK. There are a few more
integrators in ODEPACK which could easily be wrapped with f2py should
someone feel the urge. We'd probably wrap yours, too, if it weren't
GPLed.  ;-)

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 12 02:54:33 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:54:33 +0200
Subject: piping out binaries properly
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <diibva$4jn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andy Leszczynski wrote:

> when I run under Unix I got:
>
> $ python u.py > u.bin
> $ od -t x1 u.bin
> 0000000 41 41 0a 41 41
>
> and under Windows/Cygwin following:
>
> $ python u.py > u.bin
> $ od -t x1 u.bin
> 0000000 41 41 0d 0a 41 41
> 0000006
>
> The question is how can I pipe out binary content properly and platform
> independently?

$ python -h
usage: python [option] ... [-c cmd | file | -] [arg] ...
Options and arguments (and corresponding environment variables):
...
-u     : unbuffered binary stdout and stderr (also PYTHONUNBUFFERED=x)
...

</F>





From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Wed Oct  5 16:06:37 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:06:37 GMT
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <3qihbfFerdqjU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
	<3qid8sFeigdeU1@uni-berlin.de> <1128532128.4560.21.camel@blackwidow>
	<3qihbfFerdqjU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1128542791.4560.34.camel@blackwidow>

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 19:37 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > What I wanted is multiple calls to create a new object with the same
> > parameters points to the "original" object instead of creating a new
> > one.
> 
> Read the comments. What you say is essentially the same - the data 
> matters, after all. What do you care if there are several instances
> around?
> 
> Diez 

In my case it matters more that the objects are the same.

For example I want set([Spam(1), Spam(2),
Spam(3)]).intersect(set([Spam(1), Spam(2)]) to contain two items instead
of 0.

For this and many other reasons it's important that Spam(n) is Spam(n).



From gregpinero at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 13:20:03 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:20:03 -0400
Subject: xml.dom.minidom - parseString - How to avoid ExpatError?
In-Reply-To: <435F9C6C.50707@plus.net>
References: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<312cfe2b0510260738j460b075ch998371a460c39df8@mail.gmail.com>
	<435F9C6C.50707@plus.net>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510261020w1d485c98m526e325d6ada1082@mail.gmail.com>

What do you mean by well-formed? What is required to make XML well formed?

-Greg


On 10/26/05, John Abel <jabel at plus.net> wrote:
>
> Try this page:
>
> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-xml.sax.saxutils.html
>
> I've just tried the code, taking out the &nbsp, and adding in the belo,
> as the XML is not well formed, otherwise.
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-15"?>
>
> The code then works.
>
> HTH
>
> J
>
> Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
>
> > Should I try some sort of XML group instead? I'm still stuck on this.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> >
> > On 10/25/05, *Gregory Pi?ero* <gregpinero at gmail.com
> > <mailto:gregpinero at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > I was hoping some XML expert could help me make this code work.
> > Below is sample code with sample XML similar to what I'm dealing with.
> >
> > How can I make the weird characters in the XML not break the
> > parser? I'll do anything to make this work!
> >
> > (Note: the &nbsp; broke my parser yesterday but doesn't seem to in
> > this sample code) But really I'm looking for solutions that will
> > handles lots
> > of unusual characters.
> >
> > Much thanks,
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > <code>
> > from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
> > data="""
> > <blog>
> > <post>
> > This is sample problem text. &nbsp; ?500.00
> > </post>
> > </blog>
> > """
> > myDOM=parseString(data)
> > </code>
> >
> > <error>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > File
> >
> "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
> > line 307, in RunScript
> > debugger.run(codeObject, __main__.__dict__, start_stepping=0)
> > File
> > "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\__init__.py",
> > line 60, in run
> > _GetCurrentDebugger().run(cmd, globals,locals, start_stepping)
> > File
> > "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
> > line 631, in run
> > exec cmd in globals, locals
> > File "C:\Documents and Settings\Gregory\My Documents\Python\xml
> > help\xmlproc.py", line 9, in ?
> > myDOM=parseString(data)
> > File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 1929, in parseString
> > return expatbuilder.parseString(string)
> > File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 940, in
> > parseString
> > return builder.parseString(string)
> > File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 223, in
> > parseString
> > parser.Parse(string, True)
> > ExpatError: undefined entity: line 4, column 29
> > </error>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory Pi?ero
> > Chief Innovation Officer
> > Blended Technologies
> > (www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com> <
> http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory Pi?ero
> > Chief Innovation Officer
> > Blended Technologies
> > (www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com> <
> http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 31 18:44:06 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jbt2xyb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk64nk$dp0$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <863bmh2t7x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk68l4$f8t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86u0ex1cc9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:863bmh2t7x.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>>>> I'm trying to find out why you regularly ignore that difference for
>>>> everyone but MS.
>>>     To substantiate that claim, you'd have to point to some cases where I
>>> talk about something other than MS.
>> You do that *every time* someone compares MS with other criminals -
>> you immediately refer to "criminals with guns" and refuse to discuss
>> the issue further. And yes, you've already claimed that you only do
>> that when the other reference is to "actual use of force", and I've
>> already disproved that.
>     You have not disproved that. The closest you've come to a disproof is 
> one case where the word "theft" was used (while earlier in the thread, 
> actual physical force had been used, but not in that specific spot) where 
> the context strongly suggested that it meant theft by force.

Now you're simply lieing. I never discussed force earlier in the
thread.

>     You are correct that it is possible to steal something without actually 
> using physical force. But that's not an important difference. The hugely 
> important difference, and the one that you and others *are* seeking to 
> obliterate, is the difference between inherently unjust actions such as 
> force and fraud and actions that are neither forceful nor fraudulent.

And now you change your story again. You've gone from referring to all
other criminal acts as "criminals with guns" to "actual use of force"
to "using force or fraud."

>> The only consistency here has been
>> trying to treat MS's crimes as somehow different from other peoples
>> crimes.
>     That's because the only crimes that have come up in this thread are 
> Microsoft's crimes (that don't involve force or fraud) and other crimes 
> (such as theft, threats of force, and the like) which do. Duh.

Actually, they don't necessarily, but that's relevant. You simply
label *all* crime other than MS's as "criminals with guns" and refuse
to discuss them.

>     There were a few narrow cases where Microsoft was actually accused of 
> actions that I do consider force or fraud.

That's true. They committed a fraud - by lieing to federal officials
in court - and *you* responded by calling those federal officials
"criminals with guns", and using that to *excuse* MS's criminal acts
in this case.

Which is more of the same old song and dance from you: treating MS's
criminal acts as somehow different from any other criminals acts.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From gregpinero at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 14:00:58 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:00:58 -0400
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <20051027174139.GC2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c7f10c60510270806y65510087t@mail.gmail.com>
	<312cfe2b0510270931r52a18d0em29168b9702d2c748@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051027174139.GC2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510271100y32f6163es8a27524ccc37747c@mail.gmail.com>

Not quite because if something(3) fails, I still want something(4) to run.


On 10/27/05, Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:
>
>
>
> If you just want to ignore the exceptions while saving space/typing,
> you could equivalently do::
>
> try:
> something(1)
> something(2)
> # ...
> except:
> pass
>
> or::
>
> try:
> something(1); something(2); # ...
> except:
> pass
>
> or::
>
> try:
> for i in range(yourlimit):
> something(i)
> except:
> pass
>
> --
> _ _ ___
> |V|icah |- lliott http://micah.elliott.name mde at micah.elliott.name
> " " """
>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From steve.horsley at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 15:31:41 2005
From: steve.horsley at gmail.com (Steve Horsley)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:31:41 +0100
Subject: newbie question about SocketServer
In-Reply-To: <1129842796.819897.309040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129842796.819897.309040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djbfms$4ea$1@news.freedom2surf.net>

akameswaran at gmail.com wrote:
> Is it just me or do the server_close() methods do squat?  I'm primarily
> working with a ThreadingTCPServer object and trying to create a simple
> server that can shut itself down.  But even simplest cases don't seem
> to work.
> 
> Admittedly I am trying it from within my handler class, but for some
> odd reason, the server is allways willing to handle one more request
> before dying.  Then it dies.
> 

I suspect that the server thread itself is stuck in 
socket.accept(), and won't exit until the next call arrives. Try 
calling server_close and then making a brief connection to the 
server to wake it up.

HTH
Steve


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 11 07:23:37 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:23:37 -0400
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <434B9CD5.6050904@engcorp.com>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128969275.804305.193460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<oPednZskKuQBj9beRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.1875.1129004912.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434B9CD5.6050904@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <434BA0B9.5040501@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> But I'm also not sure I ought to post that to the group, so I'll spare 
> them and just inflict the thought on you!

Or, maybe I'll just fail to trim the newsgroup line and accidentally 
post to the group anyway.  Yes, that's just what I'll do.

Sorry folks. :-)

-Peter


From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Oct  7 13:24:28 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:24:28 +0100
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>	<dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>	<43464262.3040406@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<42e3723cfd2de0aca23e730139e4dd71@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4346AF4C.708@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Eric Nieuwland wrote:

> 
> 
> Ever cared to check what committees can do to a language ;-)
> 
....
well there goes democracy :(

-the happy slaves eat and are contented-ly yrs-
Robin Becker



From leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam  Tue Oct 11 22:29:13 2005
From: leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam (Andy Leszczynski)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:29:13 -0500
Subject: TurboGears /.-ed, >new == True< or >new == "True"<
Message-ID: <v7ydnXDyJdoO6dHeRVn-rw@comcast.com>

watch this:
http://www.turbogears.org.nyud.net:8090/docs/wiki20/20MinuteWiki.mov

or read this:
http://www.turbogears.org.nyud.net:8090/docs/wiki2 0/page4.html

should not it be:

2 def save(self, pagename, data, submit, new):
3 hub.begin()
4 if new == True:
5     page = Page(pagename=pagename, data=data)
6 else:
7     page = Page.byPagename(pagename)
8     page.data = data

instead of:

4 if new == "True":


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Fri Oct 21 15:42:36 2005
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:42:36 +0200
Subject: subprocess exiting in an incomprehensible fashion
References: <1129916005.543449.305390@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051021194237.3AA2.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Will wrote:

> After the first number is input, the subprocess is exiting after the
> first communicate. I do not understand why.

As help(calc.communicate) says:

Read data from stdout and stderr, until end-of-file is reached.
Wait for process to _terminate_.

> Any help would be much appreciated. I have been hunting quite a bit for
> he answer to no avail.

Simplest solution:

#!/usr/bin/python2.4
import subprocess

calc = subprocess.Popen("dc", stdin=subprocess.PIPE, stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
stderr=subprocess.STDOUT)
max = 5
for value in range(1, max):
    calc.stdin.write("%d\n" % value)
    if value > 1:
        calc.stdin.write("*\n")
calc.stdin.write("p\n")
calc.stdin.write("q\n")
calc.stdin.flush()
status = calc.wait()
print calc.stdout.read()

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 29 17:43:18 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:43:18 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk0qdl$95b$1@sea.gmane.org>

netvaibhav at gmail.com wrote:
> I think implementing a finite state automaton would be a good (best?)
> solution. I have drawn a FSM for you (try viewing the following in
> fixed width font). Just increment the count when you reach state 5.
> 
>                     <---------------|
>                    |                |
>         0      0   |  1      0      |0
>  -->[1]--->[2]--->[3]--->[4]--->[5]-|
>      ^ |    |      ^ |     |      |
>     1| |<---|      | |     |1     |1
>      |_|    1      |_|     |      |
>      ^             0       |      |
>      |---------------------|<-----|
> 
> If you don't understand FSM's, try getting a book on computational
> theory (the book by Hopcroft & Ullman is great.)
> 
> Here you don't have special cases whether reading in blocks or reading
> whole at once (as you only need one byte at a time).
> 
Indeed, but reading one byte at a time is about the slowest way to 
process a file, in Python or any other language, because it fails to 
amortize the overhead cost of function calls over many characters.

Buffering wasn't invented because early programmers had nothing better 
to occupy their minds, remember :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From kylotan at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 04:44:13 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 01:44:13 -0700
Subject: loop help
In-Reply-To: <jgt0m1hdjk1bc7q0ose5pjn8slbq1hmr95@4ax.com>
References: <jgt0m1hdjk1bc7q0ose5pjn8slbq1hmr95@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130402653.534939.131340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

What do you mean by 'it starts accumulating' in this context? Are you
talking about the fact that numbers gain decimal places? Or the fact
that using a number between 0 and 1 will make your values diverge to
infinity? Either way, it's just mathematics for you, I'm afraid, and
there's little Python can do about it. ;)

Which part of the code issues the overflow error? I'm guessing it's the
draw.point() call since that's the only bit I can't test.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct 22 17:41:58 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:41:58 GMT
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.22.03.48.00.137827@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.48.00.137827@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Gmy6f.208600$p_1.49655@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> def replace_word(source, newword):
>     """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
>     return newword + " " + "".join(source.split(None, 1)[1:])
> 
> import time
> def test():
>     t = time.time()
>     for i in range(10000):
>         s = replace_word("aa to become", "/aa/")
>     print ((time.time() - t)/10000), "s"
> 
> py> test()
> 3.6199092865e-06 s
> 
> 
> Is that fast enough for you?


I agree in most cases it's premature optimization.  But little tests 
like this do help in learning to write good performing code in general.

Don't forget a string can be sliced.  In this case testing before you 
leap is a win.   ;-)


import time
def test(func, n):
     t = time.time()
     s = ''
     for i in range(n):
         s = func("aa to become", "/aa/")
     tfunc = t-time.time()
     print func.__name__,':', (tfunc/n), "s"
     print s

def replace_word1(source, newword):
     """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
     return newword + " " + "".join(source.split(None, 1)[1:])

def replace_word2(source, newword):
     """Replace the first word of source with newword."""
     if ' ' in source:
         return newword + source[source.index(' '):]
     return newword

test(replace_word1, 10000)
test(replace_word2, 10000)


=======
replace_word1 : -3.09998989105e-006 s
/aa/ to become
replace_word2 : -1.60000324249e-006 s
/aa/ to become



From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Wed Oct 12 00:24:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:24:02 +1000
Subject: non descriptive error
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net><200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>	<did1ma$4q2$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1925.1129073625.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434C8FE2.2090505@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Timothy Smith wrote:

>>> i have NO idea what in there could be making it have such a strange
>>> error. it just says "error" when you try run it. there nothing terribly
>>> strange being done.

> i am still coming across this error it's driving me nuts. usually i can 
> find what's wrong, but it is becoming an increasingly annoying problem. 
> i also get the same problem on a windows machine with the same 
> installed. this time it's nothing to do with the decimal module. help!

Go back to first principles. Can you grab all the 
modules being used, and search them for the string 
"error"? Ignore any hits which are in a comment. One of 
the others is almost certainly responsible.

You can test that by changing the string to "this is a 
PITA" and see if your mysterious error message changes 
or not.



-- 
Steven.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 00:53:42 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:53:42 -0700
Subject: Generic utility class for passing data
In-Reply-To: <1130560720.166693.239460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1u-dnSkSzdnsfP_enZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>	<1h55r01.ovyr63zw37r6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130560720.166693.239460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djuv8n$6hn$1@sea.gmane.org>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> just curious, since python don't care what object is being passing
> around and the receiving function has to 'decode' it(be it tuple or
> dict or whatever). What is the advantage of dummy class ?

The convenience of the attribute notation.

For the record, my favorite variation is as follows:

class Bunch(dict):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
        dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwds)
        self.__dict__ = self

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Fri Oct 28 10:23:34 2005
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:23:34 -0500
Subject: Suggestion for (re)try statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2660.1130443842.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2660.1130443842.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <djtc95$emd$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Sori Schwimmer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think that would be useful to have an improved
> version of the "try" statement, as follows:
> 
> try(retrys=0,timeout=0):
>   # things to try
> except:
>   # what to do if failed
> 
> and having the following semantic:
> 
> for i in range(retrys):
>   try:
>     # things to try
>   except:
>     if i < retrys:
>       i += 1
>       sleep(timeout)
>     else:
>       # what to do if failed
>   else:
>     break

The gold standard for language syntax changes is "compelling use cases" 
- if introduced, how often will the construct be used? Is there a python 
program out there (preferably in the standard library) which would be 
*markedly* improved by the change? What is so repugnant about the 
equivalent, currently valid way of writing it? -- Hypothetical and 
theoretical arguments don't carry much weight in the Python community 
("Practicality beats purity" and all that.)

And remember - your goal isn't ultimately to convince me or someother 
person on comp.lang.python, it's to convince Guido.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sun Oct  9 07:34:31 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:34:31 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1781.1128838838.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1781.1128838838.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Lb-dnVf65sXCndTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
<snip>
>     "Unlike mainstream component programming, scripts usually
>     do not introduce new components but simply "wire" existing
>     ones. Scripts can be seen as introducing behavior but no
>     new state. /.../ Of course, there is nothing to stop a
>     "scripting" language from introducing persistent state -- it
>     then simply turns into a normal programming language."
> 
>         -- Clemens Szyperski, in "Component Software":
<snip>

That description seems to describe whatever is written more than 
whatever it is written in, or in other words, it describes the 
difference between a script and a program, not between a scripting 
language and a programming language.

I think that at one time, scripting languages was something that lived 
within other programs, like Office, and couldn't be used by themselves 
without running it inside that program, and as thus was a way to add 
minor functions and things to that program.

Nowadays a lot of the scripting languages have turned programming 
languages so I think the difference is small.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 13:07:57 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 10:07:57 -0700
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
In-Reply-To: <1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<di8kmc$97c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1776.1128800832.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129050477.600590.89140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

also, I noticed you did python build-ext ....does that mean for any
computer I want to run myapp on, I need to build the extension on it as
well?  Or can I build it once and just copy the files to another
computer that has python already installed?  If I just copy files,
which files and where would they go?

Thanks!

Java and Swing wrote:
> So is "module.c" a new C file or do I add it to my existing, myapp.c?
>
>
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> > >    seq = PySequence_Fast(data, "expected a sequence");
> > >    if (!seq)
> > >        return NULL;
> >
> > here's some more information on the PySequence_Fast API:
> >
> >     http://www.effbot.org/zone/python-capi-sequences.htm
> > 
> > </F>



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 26 05:30:17 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:30:17 +0200
Subject: Looping Problem (Generating files - only the last record
	generates a file)
References: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djni9m$ftb$03$1@news.t-online.com>

vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com wrote:

> Once I execute the program (see below) only one file (instead of x
> files) is created. The file created is based on the last record in
> datafile.txt.

> #!  python
> 
> HEADER = "This page displays longitude-latitude information"
> SUBHEADER = "City"
> 
> for line in open("datafile.txt"):
> 
> 
>     town, latlong = line.split('\t')
 
In Python whitespace is significant. For the following to be executed in the
for-loop it has to be indented to the same level as the line above. 

> f = open(town + ".txt", "w+")
> 
> f.write(HEADER + "\n")
> f.write(SUBHEADER + ": " + town + "\n")
> f.write("LAT/LONG" + ": " + latlong + "\n")
> f.close()
> 
> 
> # end
> ====================================

The effect of aligning it with the for-statement is that it is executed only
once /after/ the loop has run to completion. At that point town and latlong
are still bound to the values they were assigned in the last iteration
(with an empty datafile.txt the loop would never be executed and you would
get a NameError).

Peter



From http  Sat Oct  8 01:18:59 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 22:18:59 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1h42zdb.1hqmbvr101wlsoN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7xk6goh9h8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli) writes:
> ap.py:4: No global (test) found
> ap.py:5: Local variable (ego1d) not used
> Helen:/tmp alex$ 
> 
> If you're so typo-prone and averse to unittests that you consider this
> kind of issue to be a serious problem, just use pychecker and get
> informed about any such typo, just as above.

That's very helpful, but why isn't it built into Python?


From schng6 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 19:34:35 2005
From: schng6 at yahoo.com (saw huan chng)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WMI - Restore Setting in Python
Message-ID: <20051010233435.58991.qmail@web35201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I am beginner in Python. I have some questions on WMI Service in Python. I was able to use properties of Class Restore in WMI, but not able to use the method. Here is the sample code that I done, anyone can help me?

import win32com.client

strComputer = "."
objWMIService = win32com.client.Dispatch("WbemScripting.SWbemLocator")
objSWbemServices = objWMIService.ConnectServer(strComputer,"root\DEFAULT")
testobj = objSWbemServices.Get("SystemRestore")

sequence_number = 11

result = testobj.Restore(sequence_number)

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "C:\Documents and Settings\Fish\Desktop\RP_test.py", line 18, in ?
   result = testobj.Restore(sequence_number)
 File "c:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 471, in
__getattr__
   raise pythoncom.com_error, details
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, 'SWbemObjectEx',
'Invalid parameter ', None, 0, -2147217400), None)

Thanks.

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  7 09:45:06 2005
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (alainpoint at yahoo.fr)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:45:06 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Sorry Fredrik but I don't understand. Just comment out the assert and
you have different results depending on whether an unrelated sort
function is defined.
This seems weird to me !



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 20:54:18 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:54:18 -0400
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
References: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Clint Norton" <Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com> writes:
> Hi all,
>     I'm a student currently in the beginning of my master's degree and
> I'm searching for an interesting open source project written in Python
> to contribute to.
>     I have worked as a programmer for the past few years (mostly in
> academia but also as a typical full time code monkey in a commercial
> company), some of it in python, some in Java (commercial companies
> really seem to like Java).
>     Anyway, which python projects would be a good start? I generally
> like working on algorithmic parts or "Business Logic" and really don't
> like doing interface work. The software I like producing has a tendency
> to make use of the random and/or math modules, if that says something
> about the nature of the work I've done... I really want to give
> something back to the community I've taken so much from in the past.

Well, if there's some software you use on a regular basis, that's a
good start. Python itself is a candidate. If the goal is just to
contribute, start going through the bugs database, and see if you can
contribute patches that fix some of the reporrted bugs.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Oct 14 17:20:12 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:20:12 +0200
Subject: confusion between global names and instantiated object variable
	names
References: <1129322411.776202.314290@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <wz1x2nyewj.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> "wanwan" <ericwan78 at yahoo.com> (w) wrote:

>w> I'm trying to make a GUI, but for some of the instantiated object
>w> variable names, the interpreter is looking at them as global names.
>w> Here is an example of what I did:


>w> class mygui:


>w> 	def __init__(self, root):

>w> 		self.menubar = Menu(root)

>w> 		# Game Menu
>w> 		self.menu1 = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
>w> 		self.menu1.add_command(label="Open File", command=donothing)
>w> 		self.menu1.add_separator()
>w> 		self.menu1.add_command(label="Exit", command=root.quit)
>w> 		self.menubar.add_cascade(label="File", menu=self.menu1)

>w>                 # ignoring the rest of the program  ...


>w> when I run my example, an error shows:
>w> "NameError: global name'menubar' is not defined"

If it talks about global name, it can't be self.menubar or
anything.menubar. So there must be a soloist menubar reference somewhere.
Doesn't it tell you the line number?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 22:13:43 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 19:13:43 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <1128910423.872733.303580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ville Voipio wrote:
>
> The software should be running continously for
> practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
> Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
> leak-free enough to achieve this?

Jp gave you the answer that he has done this.

I've spent quite a bit of time since 2.1 days trying to improve the
reliability.  I think it has gotten much better.  Valgrind is run on
(nearly) every release.  We look for various kinds of problems.  I try
to review C code for these sorts of problems etc.

There are very few known issues that can crash the interpreter.  I
don't know of any memory leaks.  socket code is pretty well tested and
heavily used, so you should be in fairly safe territory, particularly
on Unix.

n



From rNOSPAMon at flownet.com  Thu Oct 13 02:24:36 2005
From: rNOSPAMon at flownet.com (Ron Garret)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:24:36 -0700
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
Message-ID: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>

Is this a bug or a feature?

class mydict(dict):
   def __setitem__(self, key, val):
     print 'foo'
     dict.__setitem__(self, key, val)

>>> d=mydict()
>>> d[1]=2
foo
>>> d.setdefault(2,3)
3

rg


From mhellwig at xs4all.nl  Sun Oct  9 06:35:27 2005
From: mhellwig at xs4all.nl (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:35:27 +0200
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4348f2f5$0$11062$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michael Goettsche wrote:
<cut>
> You're asking "tech geekers" and "morons" to do this job? Isn't that a task 
> for somebody more professional like you? 

I think he's doing a shot to the position of open-source leader, judging 
on the replies he has got till so far, that shot was not really 
effective. In dutch we have a saying for these kind of people, it goes 
like this: "12 ambachten, 13 ongelukken".

-- 
mph



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 24 02:23:56 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 02:23:56 -0400
Subject: testing '192.168.1.4' is in '192.168.1.0/24' ?
In-Reply-To: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <JIGdnfUorPN14MHeRVn-uA@powergate.ca>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> Is there standard library modules handling this ? currently I need to
> turn it into a long integer and do the shift and compare.

A little Googling turned up this:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440560

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 02:58:43 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:58:43 +0200
Subject: line
References: <1d987df30510092220x2ab85939rd1a895718b619685@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <did3f6$94i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Shi Mu wrote_

> There are four points with coordinates:
> 2,3;4,9;1,6;3,10.
> How to use Python to draw one perpendicular bisector
> between (2,3) and (4,9);

the same was as you'd do it in any other computer language ?

once you know the algorithm, implementing it in Python should be
trivial.  maybe you should look for some geometrics site/group first ?
(sci.math or alt.math.recreational and their associated FAQs and
archives might be good choices)

(your questions do look a lot like homework assigments, btw.
are you sure they're not homework?  or if they are, that you're
supposed to have others do you homework for you?)

</F>





From jason at pengale.com  Thu Oct 20 10:02:34 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:02:34 -0500
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <dj7gen$6nq$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<F6A69CAD-81D4-4D94-88F9-A3011CBCFFA8@pengale.com>
	<dj7gen$6nq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <D656C05A-9F46-4D42-B9BC-206854072ACE@pengale.com>

On Oct 20, 2005, at 2:19 AM, Steve Holden wrote:

> Jason Stitt wrote:

>> Using // for 'in' looks really weird, too. It's too bad you can't
>> overload Python's 'in' operator. (Can you? It seems to be hard-coded
>> to iterate through an iterable and look for the value, rather than
>> calling a private method like some other builtins do.)
>>
>>>> class inplus(object):
>>>>
> ...   def __contains__(self, thing):
> ...     print "Do I have a", thing, "?"
> ...     return True
> ...

I stand corrected. <excuse>Python.org was intermittently down  
yesterday</excuse> so I was trying to play around with the  
interactive interpreter and missed it.

For future reference:
http://www.python.org/doc/ref/specialnames.html

However 'in' seems to coerce the return value of __contains__ to True  
or False, even if you return an object reference.

- Jason


From christoph.soellner at web.de  Tue Oct 18 07:27:54 2005
From: christoph.soellner at web.de (Christoph Söllner)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:27:54 +0200
Subject: HTTPResponse.read() returns an empty string?
References: <dj2lvt$s30$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <dj2m7k$s7n$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>

ok got it:
One cannot close the connection before reading the answer.
Seems that in my original source the new assigned variable
'answ' is destroyed or emptied with the connection.close()
command; very strange behaviour.
> """
> import httplib
> conn = httplib.HTTPConnection('www.python.org');
> conn.request("GET", "/index.html");
> answ = conn.getresponse();
> print answ.status, answ.reason
>>>> 200 OK
> conn.close();
> print "Start";
>>>> Start
> print answ.read();
>>>>
> print len(answ.read());
>>>> 0




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct 31 17:52:54 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 14:52:54 -0800
Subject: Storing empties (was Re: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables)
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h57spy.bpig8y1g0rvzfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130650215.537552.231990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h58k4p.12xd7rj1t5peh0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dk6786$fki$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <1h58k4p.12xd7rj1t5peh0N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>the canonical idiom when you need such distinction is:
>
>_not_there = object()
>def foo(bar=_not_there, baz=_not_there, bap=_not_there):
>    if bar is _not_there: ...
>
>Other unique objects can be substituted for the 'sentinel', but I prefer
>an empty "object()" because it has no other possible meaning except that
>of a distinguishable, identifiable sentinel.  IOW, you could set the
>_not_there name to [] or {} or many other things, but that could be
>slightly confusing for the reader (since the other things might have
>other meanings and purposes) while 'object()' shouldn't be.

What's your preferred idiom when you're dealing with storable objects?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur."  --Red Adair


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 11 15:51:17 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:51:17 -0500
Subject: unable to import os
In-Reply-To: <1129059294.346530.19780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <BAY101-F34FBE0905E65637D5FD2A6C7790@phx.gbl>
	<mailman.1851.1128967974.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129054769.405747.170570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129059294.346530.19780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051011195116.GE21569@unpythonic.net>

Concatenating filenames with "+" is seldom what you want.

Instead, you should use os.path.join (or, to decrease portability, nt.path.join).

Jeff
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From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 03:07:11 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 07:07:11 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0158F61527castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:

> no, they got their by clever marketing and generally having a product
> that was easier to use for the average user than anything the
> competition made and a lot more powerful than other products created
> for their main target market.

I agree with the first part of your sentence, the rest is BS of course.

> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more
> powerful than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used
> only dumb mainframe terminals.

More BS of course.

> IBM's prediction that there would be 5 computers (not counting game 
> computers like the Comodores and Spectrums) by 2000 would likely have
> come true. 

Yeah, sure, and we all would be living in caves.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct  3 14:35:01 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 20:35:01 +0200
Subject: python getopt functionality
References: <4341786B.1030901@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <dhrtkm$536$1@sea.gmane.org>

"M.N.A.Smadi" wrote:

> I have a perl script that I need to port to python. The script takes
> input from the command line.  Is there a standard way of processing
> command line arguments based on the -flag preceeding the argument?

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-getopt.html
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-optparse.html

</F>





From kyle.tk at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 21:55:34 2005
From: kyle.tk at gmail.com (kyle.tk)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 18:55:34 -0700
Subject: Best way to share a python list of objects
Message-ID: <1128736534.695525.255410@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

So I have a central list of python objects that I want to be able to
share between different process that are possibly on different
computers on the network. Some of the processes will add objects to
list and another process will be a GUI that will view objects in the
list. I want this all to happen in real-time (e.g once a processes adds
an object to the list the GUI will see it.)

What would be the best way to accomplish this. Some of my ideas:
- An XML file r/w-able by all processes
- Send pickled objects between all processes and each keeps it own list
locally
- A ascii type protocol akin to ftp the hands out all the info to the
processes

Any other ideas? What would work the best



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 12:41:07 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:41:07 +0200
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
References: <43567027$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk><-_2dndLn4eEm78veRVn-qg@comcast.com>
	<4356740c$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <dj5sv4$k5u$1@sea.gmane.org>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:

>> Can you give us an example.  I don't know what two bit
>> hex means (takes at least 4 bits to make a hex digit).
>
> Like 64(base 16)=100.
> I am referring to 64 in the above.

that's two digits, not two bits.

    >>> print int("64", 16)
    100

>> Now I'm going to try to guess:
>>
>> If the data is binary then all you need to do is to
>> use the struct.unpack module to convert to integer.
>
> Doesn't unpack presume that the input is a string ? If so, is it safe to
> convert binary data to string using str() ?

since Python uses string objects to hold binary data, that shouldn't be
necessary.

(struct also supports the CPython low-level buffer protocol, so it works
with any type that sees itself as a string of bytes).

</F> 





From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 12 10:37:59 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:37:59 +0200
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
References: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dij73a$c0l$00$1@news.t-online.com>

black wrote:

> in my .py file there are a few print to trace out some message and i
> wonder if we can save it into a specified file when that script get
> running. if so, i may just check that file to c how the script is
> running. can anyone show me a right direction ?

If you don't feel comfortable with the command line you can stick

import sys
sys.stdout = open("mylogfile.txt", "w")

at the beginning of your file.

Peter



From vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 13:23:42 2005
From: vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com (vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 10:23:42 -0700
Subject: Help with language, dev tool selection
Message-ID: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a problem that I have to solve programmatically and since HTML
is pretty much the only code I have been exposed to I need an advice on
how to develop the programmatic solution to the problem I have.

In the nutshell, it'd be great if you can give me guidance in terms
of:

1)	What programming language to use
2)	What development tools to use
3)	Tips on how to code the solution

So, here is my challenge:

I have a flat text file, 30000 records, each record has two columns,
the columns are tab separated.

The file looks like this (approximately)

Sarajevo	431104-133111
Mostar		441242-133421
Zagreb		432322-134423


The first value is a name of a town, and the second value represent
longitude-latitude in degrees, minutes and seconds.

For each record I have to create an html file that will be named as the
name of the town (i.e. Sarajevo.html). The content of the file will be
rather simple; in the first row it will contain the header (i.e.
"This page displays longitude-latitude information") - The second
row will have the following word: "Grad" - and the third row will
contain the name of the city and the fourth row will have the
longitude-latitude info.

The program also needs to prompt me (before it starts spitting the html
pages) and ask what test should be entered in line one (I would than
manually enter "This page displays longitude-latitude information")
and it also need to prompt me about the text that should be entered in
line two (I'd go and manually enter "grad").

I'd greatly appreciate any coment and/or guidance.


Best,

Vasilije Petkovic Vasa



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 03:44:17 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:44:17 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlrlt2.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djkmfs$2r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <2n3133-19g.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djknoh$38o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:2n3133-19g.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>>     Essentially, Microsoft asked for exclusive arrangements. That is,
>> arrangements wherein you could not sell competing products if you wished 
>> to
>> sell Microsoft products. That's not even remotely unusual.

> It soitenly is, stanley. In case you hadn't noticed, the shops sell
> more than one kind of washing powder.

    Your argument is nonsensical. Because you can find one category of goods 
that don't have the property I'm talking about it follows that the property 
is unusual?!

    Operating systems are not like washing powder at all. Try to sell both 
Big Macs and Whoppers in one store. Heck, try to sell Craftsman tools 
without being a Sears. Microsoft gets to decide whether they sell their 
operating systems software like washing powder or like burgers, not you.

> Please stop this shillism.

    If you could produce a strong argument, it might make sense to accuse me 
of shilling.

    DS




From joeyjwc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 05:36:56 2005
From: joeyjwc at gmail.com (Joey C.)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 02:36:56 -0700
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
In-Reply-To: <1130232152.429900.109710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130185501.221232.17370@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2514.1130228547.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130232152.429900.109710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130233016.889478.104380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you meant at first.
Then I read your reply over again and noticed that you said that the
problem lied in os.path.getsize() when I tried to run it on the
contents of an open file.

I'll try the method you outlined now.



From http  Mon Oct 10 20:04:47 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 17:04:47 -0700
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1796.1128872448.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102238590.18783@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <7xwtkk6hr4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:
> Okay, a crack at a definition: a closure is a function in which some
> of the variable names refer to variables outside the function.

That's misleading, I'd say a closure is a combination of a function
(executable code) and a lexical environment (the values of the
function's free variables, as taken from surrounding scopes at the
time the function was created).  For example:
  def f(n):
     def g(): return n
     return g
  h1 = f(1)
  h2 = f(2)

h1 and h2 are two different closures.  They have the same executable
code but their environments are different.  In h1, n=1, but in h2, n=2.
So, h1() will return 1 but h2() will return 2.  Is there really anything
confusing about this?  All that's happened is that when you call f, f
allocates a memory slot for n.  g makes a reference to the slot and
then f returns.  Since the reference to the slot still exists, the slot
doesn't get GC'd.  When you call f again, it allocates a new slot.

This is all described in SICP (mitpress.mit.edu/sicp).  



From erniedude at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 11:34:45 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 08:34:45 -0700
Subject: Compile C program -> .pyc file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2372.1129908716.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129905417.451369.114840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2372.1129908716.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129908885.343748.130460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> "Ernesto" wrote:
>
> > Is there a way to compile a C program into a .pyc file that has the
> > same behavior as the compiled C program?
>
> unless you find a C->Python compiler, no.  PYC files contain Python bytecode,
> C compilers usually generate native code for a given machine platform.
>
> </F>


Yeah, I know it can't really be done in ONE step, but I was hoping it
was possible in 'n' steps.



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 21:40:13 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:40:13 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86hdb2h750.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

>> "Ironically, while no one else has so much as compared MS to criminals 
>> with
>> guns". I defy you to find *one* place where I complain that MS behavior 
>> is
>> equated to the actual use of force where that is not in fact done in
>> precisely the thread I'm replying to.

> The first one is at:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/8422f41c9fe137b0?dmode=source&hl=en
>
> The original comment was:
>
>>> No, they didn't ask for more than Windows were worth. They tilted the
>>> playing field against MS competitors by causing consumers to pay MS
>>> money for products they didn't receive. In most countries, taking
>>> money from unwilling victims without giving them anything in exchange
>>> is called "theft".
>
> Note that no mention is made of guns or force - just a definition of
> theft. Unless you're so narrowminded that nothing short of pointing a
> gun at someone and demanding money from them is stealing from them,
> there is no way that this can be equated to the actual use of
> force. And if you do believe that definition of stealing, I'll do your
> bookkeeping for free - and I won't steal from you.
>
> Your reply:
>
>>    It is not theft if you can simply say "no" to the deal and all that
>>happens is that you don't get the product. Your argument is preposterous. 
>>If
>>you accept arguments that equate guns with arguments, the next step is 
>>that
>>using a gun is a rational response to an argument one doesn't like. Oh 
>>wait,
>>you're already there.
>
> Wherein you accuse me of equating MS's actions with using guns, which
> is *exactly* what I said you do.

    This thread is large and complex, and I can't always know exactly what's 
a reply to what reply to what. So what's said in what part of a thread may 
carry over to another part of that same thread.

> There are lots more examples of you doing this kind of thing. Like I
> said, everytime someone compares MS's behavior with some less
> controversial criminal behavior, you act like they accused MS of
> holding people up at gunpoint.

    They are. Read the quotes. Here they are again:

"We are talking junior Mafia style enforcement."

>Did Microsoft ever use or threaten force?
"YES .  Have you not read a word I said."

"It will be very hard to prosecute MS for their crimes because they commit
them much the way the Mafia does. ... Everyone was terrified of MS and would
never dream of going public. I have talked about this publicly many times
because it always looked as if I were going to die in a few years anyway."

    There are many more.

>Unless you're so narrowminded that nothing short of pointing a
>gun at someone and demanding money from them is stealing from them,
>there is no way that this can be equated to the actual use of
>force. And if you do believe that definition of stealing, I'll do your
>bookkeeping for free - and I won't steal from you.

    You are seriously saying that people in this thread have not 
consistently described Microsoft's actions as analogous to an actual use of 
force? Have you read any of the thread? Do I need to dig out more quotes?

    These are all from early in the thread, long before the posts you are 
complaining about:

"The choice was go along with MS arm twisting or go out of business."

    and

"To my way of thinking what MS did was similar to a the only magasine
wholesaler in town telling retailers it had to sell kiddie porn under
the table or pay full retail for all magazines."

    However, you may be right that some of my replies to you may not have 
been justified as responses to just what you said. It'd take a lot of 
digging through the thread to figure that out. ;)

    DS




From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Fri Oct  7 16:45:33 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:45:33 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

Hello Phil,

Yes I have considered Octave. In fact I'm already using Matlab and
decided to 'reject' it for Python + Numeric/numarray + SciPy because I
think you could do more in Python and in more simple ways.

Problem is that neither Octave, Matlab and Python offer today a
framework to build continuous system simulator (in fact Matlab with
Simulink and SimMechanics, do propose, but I was not convinced at all).

Regards,

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com wrote :

> Nicholas,
> 
> Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe it can talk
> to Python.
> Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including having ODE
> solvers. I have successfully used it to model and simulate simple
> systems. Complex system would be easy to model as well, provided that
> you model your dynamic elements with (systems of) differential
> equations.
> 


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Mon Oct 10 09:53:12 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:53:12 -0400
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>

"Christian Stapfer" <nil at dev.nul> wrote:

> <ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > try to use set.
>
>     Sorting the two lists and then extracting
> A-B, B-A, A|B, A & B and A ^ B in one single
> pass seems to me very likely to be much faster
> for large lists.

Why don't you implement it, test it and time it to be more convincing about your intuition ?

George




From http  Wed Oct  5 04:48:42 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 01:48:42 -0700
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <7xll18gxhx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> But that is contradicted by the unittest. If you have a unittest for
> comparing dictionaries, that means comparing dictionaries has a
> testable characteristic and thus is further defined.

No, I don't think so.  The unittest makes sure that a particular
implementation works as intended.  That doesn't mean that every part
of the of how that particular implementation works is required by the
language definition.  It can have some non-required (but
non-forbidden) characteristics and those could still get tested.


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 19:00:25 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:00:25 -0400
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<KFc6f.5081$q%.3357@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <86vezqscfq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
>> You've got lots of stuff going on here. I count at least five programs
>> and three network connections. How much is working, and which parts
>> are you trying to do in Python?
>
> I am starting from existing applications (cross-platform - and in python
> 99% ) that work even through tcp-ip (sockets).
>
> I am just trying to apply them to a web environement.
>
> So prior to any user interaction with the page, I need some data exchange
> between the plugin and the server (authentication).

I don't know much about plugins.  I believe they get started when the
page loads, which gives you a chance to do the authentication when you
want it done.

> So _if_ (I'm a web newbie) the server and the clien(plugin) could exchange
> data through some form field, my prototype would be much further along.

That won't work very well. HTML goes to the client to display. The
server can put data in hidden form elements that code running on the
client side can get to - and change - via the document object model
(DOM). However, the only way to send the changed data back to the
server is to get the client to submit the form. You can automate that,
but the results will be disconcerting to the user: they load a page,
and it reloads multiple times as the plugin exchanges data with the
server.

> Here is a small picture:
> Smart Card <-> driver <-> cgi <-> apache ...... [NET]........ browser <->
> plugin <-> driver <-> Smart Card

The problem with this is that the apache<->browser connection isn't
"a" connection, it's a series of HTTP request/repsonse
pairs. Originally, this implied tearing down and setting up a TCP
connection for every request. Modern software will leave the link open
and reuse it - but modern software also tends to have multiple
connetions open, so it can fetch images and other embedded objects in
parallel.

You can make this work, but doing it like that requires making
multiple HTTP requests via the browser, which will be
disconcerting. I'd recommend taking the browser out of the loop. Have
the plugin talk directly to the server to do the
authentication. That's what the latest web buzzword (AJAX) does:
client-side software makes independent requests of the server (or
*any* server) to get data, and possibly updates the document the
browser is viewing as a result of that.

So here's a scenario: the first cgi script gets info from the smart
card that puts it in a hidden form element and sends the page to the
browser. The plugin - started when the page loads - uses the DOM to
get that data, then makes an *independent* HTTP request to the server,
thus passing whatever it generated from the data in the form field to
a second cgi script. This happens several times, then the plugin
changes the HTML form to put whatever the cgi script generated into
the form, so that when the user finally submits the form, the third
cgi script - the one that handles the submitted form - sees the data
from the second script.

Actually, the exchanges between the plugin and the server don't need
to be HTTP requests. If you've got this working over some other TCP
protocol, there's no reason you can't keep doing it that way.

A word of warning: authentication protocols are fragile; they tend to
stop being resistant to attacks after even relatively minor changes,
so you want to be very carefull about changing the protocol. Web-based
things are very open. You can't really do much to prevent the client
end from doing *whatever they want* with the HTML you send them, or
you generate for them on the fly. This also has serious security
implications. Think carefully about what happens when the user pulls
one of your forms out of the browser history, or bookmarks a
page. Then make sure you get a thorough audit of the resulting
system/protocol done by people who know what they're doing.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 10:22:06 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:22:06 +0200
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di8kmc$97c$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Java and Swing" wrote:

>I need to write an extension for a C function so that I can call it
> from python.
>
> C code (myapp.c)
> ======
> typedef unsigned long MY_LONG;
>
> char *DoStuff(char *input, MY_LONG *x) { ... }
>
> so you pass in a string and an array of MY_LONGS...such as
>
> MY_LONGS vals[10] = {....};
> char *input = "this is my input";
> char *result;
>
> result = DoStuff(input, vals);
>
> ...I need to create an extension so that I can call this from Python
> such as...
>
>>> import myapp
>>> vals = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
>>> input = "this is my input"
>>> result = myapp.DoStuff(input, vals)
>>> print result
>
> ideally the result would be a String, vals would be a list and input
> would be a string.

$ more module.c

/* $Id$ */
/* a module */

#include "Python.h"

static long*
get_long_array(PyObject* data, int* data_size)
{
    int i, size;
    long* out;
    PyObject* seq;

    seq = PySequence_Fast(data, "expected a sequence");
    if (!seq)
        return NULL;

    size = PySequence_Size(seq);
    if (size < 0)
        return NULL;

    if (data_size)
        *data_size = size;

    out = (long*) PyMem_Malloc(size * sizeof(long));
    if (!out) {
        Py_DECREF(seq);
        PyErr_NoMemory();
        return NULL;
    }

    for (i = 0; i < size; i++)
        out[i] = PyInt_AsLong(PySequence_Fast_GET_ITEM(seq, i));

    Py_DECREF(seq);

    if (PyErr_Occurred()) {
        PyMem_Free(out);
        out = NULL;
    }

    return out;
}

static PyObject*
do_stuff(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
    int i;
    long* vals;
    int vals_size;

    char* my_result;

    char* input;
    PyObject* vals_in;
    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sO:do_stuff", &input, &vals_in))
        return NULL;

    vals = get_long_array(vals_in, &vals_size);
    if (!vals)
        return NULL;

    if (vals_size != 10) {
        PyErr_SetString(PyExc_ValueError, "expected 10 values");
        PyMem_Free(vals);
        return NULL;
    }

    /* do stuff */
    printf("input = %s\n", input);
    for (i = 0; i < 10; i++)
        printf("vals[%d] = %ld\n", i, vals[i]);
    my_result = "result";
    /* done */

    PyMem_Free(vals);

    return PyString_FromString(my_result);
}

static PyMethodDef functions[] = {
    {"do_stuff", do_stuff, METH_VARARGS},
    {NULL, NULL}
};

PyMODINIT_FUNC initmodule(void)
{
    Py_InitModule4(
        "module", functions, "my module", NULL, PYTHON_API_VERSION
        );
}

$ more setup.py

# $Id$
# a setup file

from distutils.core import setup, Extension

setup(
    name="module",
    ext_modules = [Extension("module", ["module.c"])]
    )

$ python setup.py build_ext -i
...

$ python
>>> import module
>>> vals = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> input = "this is some input"
>>> result = module.do_stuff(input, vals)
input = this is some input
vals[0] = 1
vals[1] = 2
vals[2] = 3
vals[3] = 4
vals[4] = 5
vals[5] = 6
vals[6] = 7
vals[7] = 8
vals[8] = 9
vals[9] = 10
>>> result
'result'

</F> 





From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct  6 17:03:49 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 21:03:49 GMT
Subject: Lambda evaluation
References: <mailman.1636.1128630423.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns96E7DF5DE290Cduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Jp Calderone wrote:

> On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:18:15 -0400, Joshua Ginsberg
> <listspam at flowtheory.net> wrote: 
>>So this part makes total sense to me:
>>
>>>>> d = {}
>>>>> for x in [1,2,3]:
>>...     d[x] = lambda y: y*x
>>...
>>>>> d[1](3)
>>9
>>
>>Because x in the lambda definition isn't evaluated until the lambda is
>>executed, at which point x is 3.
>>
>>Is there a way to specifically hard code into that lambda definition
>>the contemporary value of an external variable? In other words, is
>>there a way to rewrite the line "d[x] = lambda y: y*x" so that it is
>>always the case that d[1](3) = 3?
> 
> There are several ways, but this one involves the least additional
> typing: 
> 
>     >>> d = {}
>     >>> for x in 1, 2, 3:
>     ...     d[x] = lambda y, x=x: y * x
>     ... 
>     >>> d[1](3)
>     3
> 
> Who needs closures, anyway? :)
> 

Just for completeness, here's the lambda free closure version:

>>> def timesx_factory(x):
	def timesx(y):
		return y * x
	return timesx

>>> d = dict((x, timesx_factory(x)) for x in range(1,4))
>>> d[1](3)
3
>>> d[2](3)
6
>>> 


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Mon Oct 24 16:41:57 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:41:57 GMT
Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
References: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<LaWdnS74PIO43MDeRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <pGb7f.6749$tV6.6708@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>

It is, thanks.

Philippe



Peter Hansen wrote:

> Philippe C. Martin wrote:
>> The following code outputs the actual HTML text to the browser, not the
>> interpreted text.
>> 
>> html_ok = """
>> Content-Type: text/html\n
>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">\n
> 
> HTTP header lines must end with \r\n, not just with \n.  Not sure this
> is the solution to your specific problem though...
> 
> -Peter



From dhwild at talktalk.net  Tue Oct  4 14:11:56 2005
From: dhwild at talktalk.net (David H Wild)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:11:56 +0100
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4db4aeba37dhwild@talktalk.net>

In article <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka at 4ax.com>,
   Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
> >I think e-mail should be text only. 

> I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
> HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.

> But HTML is not the problem!

HTML in email is a problem. It makes emails much bigger, and senders often
"show off" by including irrelevant things in what they send just because
they can.

> That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.

It is not unreasonable to hate choirs singing advertising jingles. Choirs,
like HTML, have their place, but it isn't in emails.

-- 
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 11:25:00 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:25:00 -0700
Subject: Confused on Kid
In-Reply-To: <1128957144_131989@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <1128957144_131989@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <die14h$8lo$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brandon K wrote:
> Hey, so I heard about the TurboGears posting and decided to investigate. 
>      I watched some of their video on building a wiki in 20 minutes and 
> was totally blown away because I'm used to python...straight python, not 
> melding together 4 different APIs into one to blah blah.  ANYWAY.  I was 
> investigating each subproject individually and could not, for the life 
> of me figure out how Kid worked.  I understand that it takes a 
> well-formed XML document and transforms it, but I could not figure out 
> where it transforms it, or how to transform a document.  They have 
> plenty of template examples, but I'm left say, "What do I do with this?" 
> I know I can't just pop in it a browser because it has no sort of style 
> sheet or anything so it would just render as an XML document.  What do 
> you do after you have a kid template?

Did you read the documentation?

http://kid.lesscode.org/guide.html

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Fri Oct  7 16:58:28 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rbt)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:58:28 -0400
Subject: socketServer questions
In-Reply-To: <7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>

On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 09:17 -0700, Paul Rubinhttp: wrote:
> > 3. How do I keep people from tampering with the server? The clients
> > send strings of data to the server. All the strings start with x and
> > end with y and have z in the middle. Is requiring x at the front and
> > y at the back and z someplace in the middle enough to keep people
> > out? I'm open to suggestions.
> 
> It only keeps them out if they don't know to use that x..y..z pattern
> and maybe not even then.  Get a copy of "Security Engineering" by
> Ross Anderson to have an idea of what you're dealing with, especially
> if your server controls something valuable.

The server just logs data, nothing else. It's not private or important
data... just sys admin type stuff (ip, mac addy, etc.). I just don't
want some script kiddie discovering it and trying to 'hack' it. By doing
so, they'd fill the log up with crap. So, If the data doesn't contain x,
y, and z and if the data is too big or too small, I record it to a
'tamper' log and tell the leet hacker to 'go away'. 



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 27 09:12:47 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:12:47 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <9bj1m11k5l9h5pq2dt4evpp5a2qbsqgfsn@4ax.com>
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<9bj1m11k5l9h5pq2dt4evpp5a2qbsqgfsn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqjoe$qb7$2@sadr.dfn.de>

Roedy Green wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :
> 
> 
>>   Right I understand that. You could have complied simply by only selling 
>>computers with Windows preinstalled. In other words, you could have treated 
>>this the same as a demand for franchise or exclusivity if you had wanted to.
> 
> 
> It is obvious to everyone WHY MS did this, to maintain monopoly. But
> ignore motive for a while and see what they actually did and exactly
> how they intended to carry out he threat of destroying my business.
> What they did is clearly criminal. The hard part is proving it. Like
> any smart criminal who makes a threat, MS left no paper trail..
<snip>
> 2. it was a threat to force me to commit a criminal act -- namely
> extract money from people and hand it to Microsoft and give those

What, specifically, is the criminal act of which you speak?

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct  7 08:53:06 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:53:06 -0400
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86u0fto5e5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:03:33 -0700, barnesc wrote:
>> I added some recipes to the Python Cookbook:
>> 
>>  - listmixin
>> 
>>    Use ListMixin to create custom list classes from a small subset of
>>    list methods:
>> 
>>    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440656
>
> That looks great. Now, if only I understood mixins: what are they, and
> what they are for, and in particular, how they differ from mere
> subclassing.

One way to look at it is that mixins are a special case of
subclassing. They aren't different, just specific.

Mixins are abstract. Using Paul's example, you'd never declare a
ScrollBar object, only subclasses that also inherit from some form of
Window.

Mixins are about behavior, not type. If you have real mixins, then an
object of a class that inherits from a mixin is not an instance of the
mixin class.

Mixins are one way to deal with the lack of multiple inheritance. But
even languages with multiple inheritance find the idea useful.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 16:15:12 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:15:12 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <srtik1d92f827rt0s0aemi5a63fiocl6s2@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 05:55:01 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Virus writers will love the ability to
>change peoples address books remotely.

Since this is just a broad brush view, I find it odd you can predict
just what bugs there will be in the early implementations.

You sound almost as if you were the author of the current system and
feel personally attacked by others looking for ways to improve it.

In my scheme, every message is digitally signed, even a change of
address message. 

Surely for a virus to send out a digitally signed change of address
message is more difficult than sending out an unsigned one, which they
can do today.

You have two problems you want to avoid:

1. the practical problem:  failure to inform your correspondents, not
just your address list, of your new address (at least the ones you
don't consider spam or pests).

2. the potential problem:  rogue software sending out fake change of
address notices.

In my scheme, The receiver of the change of address  message ignores
it unless it is properly signed.  Surely that is a more secure system
than we have today and that handles (1) without effort.  At worst, a
very clever virus could change the one address book entry, the one for
this computer, in other's machines.   It could not generally corrupt
other machines.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From mail at tuxipuxi.org  Sat Oct  8 15:36:00 2005
From: mail at tuxipuxi.org (Michael Goettsche)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:36:00 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
In-Reply-To: <aY6dnVCeQcxMh9XeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<aY6dnVCeQcxMh9XeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <200510082136.00441.mail@tuxipuxi.org>

On Saturday 08 October 2005 21:15, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> csheppard91 at gmail.com wrote:
> > I've launched a new forum not too long ago, and I invite you all to go
> > there: www.wizardsolutionsusa.com (click on the forum link).  We offer
> > all kinds of help, and for those of you who just like to talk, there's
> > a chit chat section just for you...Just remember that forum
> > communication is much easier, safer, and faster.
>
> Easier than what? Having to look into each forum to see if something is
> new? That's easier?
> Safer than what? Using a web browser? That's safe?
> Faster? That page loads 10 posts in the same speed I get 700 posts with
> usenet.

Besides that, it's cheap advertising. Would it have been harder to post the 
direct forum link than to link to his company's website?


From rupole at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 21 09:49:43 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:49:43 -0400
Subject: pushing python to multiple windows machines
References: <1129895063.490493.26360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129902835_5439@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

<shkelley at gmail.com> wrote:
>I am working on a project that requires python to be installed on a
> large number of windows servers and was wondering if anyone has found a
> method to do this.  I found the article from 2003, but nobody ever
> stated that they have found an option for this.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/f42f0813bc271995?tvc=1&q=%22Pushing+Python+to+Windows+workstations%22
>
> -shawn
>

You can use WMI to install an Msi installer on a remote machine.
The Win32_Product class has an Install method:

import win32com.client
wmi=win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch('wbemscripting.swbemlocator',0)
s=wmi.ConnectServer('servername')

p=s.Get('win32_product')
inparams=p.Methods_('Install').InParameters
inparams.Properties_('PackageLocation').Value=r'\\someserver\someshare\python-2.4.2.msi'
inparams.Properties_('AllUsers').Value=True

outparams=p.ExecMethod_('Install',inparams)
print outparams.Properties_('ReturnValue')  ## zero on success



     Roger



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From http  Fri Oct  7 13:04:03 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 10:04:03 -0700
Subject: Objects with different data views
References: <pan.2005.10.07.16.52.21.660639@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xhdbtdzss.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> Anyone have any good ideas for how I should implement this?

These days you can use properties.  Before, you'd have had to do it
manually with __setattr__ / __getattr__ methods.  Here's how I'd do it
with properties, if I have the math right.  You're using a and b as
the canonical values of the variables, computing x and y from them,
and adjusting them when x and y change.

class Parrot(object):
  x = property(getx, setx)
  y = property(gety, sety)

  def getx(self):
     return self.a + self.b        
  def setx(self, x):
     y = self.y   # calls gety
     self.a, self.b = 2*x - y, y-x

  def gety(self):
     return self.a + 2*self.b
  def sety(self, y):
     x = self.x    # calls getx
     self.a, self.b = 2*x - y, y-x


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 14 00:34:29 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:34:29 +0100
Subject: FORM data in cgi
In-Reply-To: <864q7lugp2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <rCv3f.2387$nE2.2051@fe03.lga> <864q7lugp2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dincgj$6iu$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> "jponiato" <jponiato at chartermi.nojunk> writes:
> 
> 
>>Greetings.
>>An HTML form submits it's data to a python cgi script on my server. This script accepts this POST data, and uses urllib.urlopen() to call a different cgi script (on an external server), passing this same data. I'm using cgi.FieldStorage() to create a mapping of the FORM data, then using urllib.urlencode() to turn it back into form data for urlopen().
>>Question - is there a more efficient way to do this?
> 
> 
> Yes. But the question you should be asking is "Is there an easier way
> to do it that's worth doing?"
> 
> Unless you're passing around files, or really huge forms, the amount
> of time you spend doing decoding and encodinng the form data will be
> pretty trivial. Unless you're really pressed for cycles, why bother
> fixing it? And if you're really pressed for cycles, you should start
> by instrumenting things to make sure that you're optimizing something
> that will do you some good.
> 
> Anyway, the general idea is to skip cgi.FieldStorage, and parse the
> request yourself. You'll have to deal with the headers. But you can
> just grab the post data with a read(). I'm not sure you can use urllib
> to send pre-encoded POST data; you'll have to check that yourself. If
> not, you'll have to do the HTTP request processing by yourself. That's
> not hard, though.
> 
>     <mike

In point of fact the OP (whose post wasn't threaded with your reply in 
my newsreader) is actually describing a requirement for an HTTP proxy!

As you describe it, since the data stream in the request body will be 
exactly the same in both cases (though the HTTP request line and headers 
will differ) is possible to handle the request by having the CGI script 
a direct connection to the intended destination server, parsing the 
incoming headers, generating the outgoing ones, and then just relaying 
the request body. The response will then have to be sent back to the 
client, possibly requiring some parsing on the way, so the processing 
time might come out a wash.

Of course it would be even easier to set up direct proxying through the 
web server if it's something accommodating like Apache ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From broek at cc.umanitoba.ca  Sun Oct  9 19:12:10 2005
From: broek at cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:12:10 -0500
Subject: __Classes and type tests
In-Reply-To: <dic6q2$glb$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <43498D3C.90908@cc.umanitoba.ca> <dic6q2$glb$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4349A3CA.5050402@cc.umanitoba.ca>

Fredrik Lundh said unto the world upon 2005-10-09 17:49:
> Brian van den Broek wrote:
> 
> 
>>But the academic issue "How/Can it be done?" still itches.
> 
> 
> class __TwoUnderBase(object):
>       def __init__(self):
>           if self.__class__.__name__ == "__TwoUnderBase":
>               print "From __TwoUnderBase"
>           else:
>               print "From subclass",
> 
> </F> 

Thanks Fredrik.

Brian vdB



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 09:14:35 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:14:35 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqjic$qb7$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <djqjrt$6dh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> I would think that if I set up a shop and wanted to have the word
> "Microsoft" as part of the shop name, there would be some rules
> dictating what products I could and could not sell, yes. Wether those
> rules are set forth in a law somewhere or Microsoft set them forth
> themselves, I would find it hard to believe that the law would
> prohibit them from doing so.

> Otherwise I could set up a shop, call it "Microsoft Porsgrunn" and
> sell machines with only Linux installed.

> I think Microsoft would be allowed to say "No, you can't do that".

    Burger King won't let you sell Whoppers or buy their burger patties 
wholesale no matter what you want to call your store unless you take the 
whole franchise deal. It's an all-or-nothing package. With very few limits, 
companies do get to choose how their products are branded, marketed, and 
sold.

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 16 05:42:00 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:42:00 +0100
Subject: Good news and bad news!!
In-Reply-To: <1129306635.757572.214590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129306635.757572.214590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dit795$tvc$2@sea.gmane.org>

grant.bodie at gmail.com wrote:
> The Bad news is i am an IT Recruiter......The good news is that i have
> a great role for a developer with strong Python skills.
> 
> Ideally along with that they will have Java and either an understanding
> of Agile development or experience in using Ruby.
> 
> ?35 - ?45k, London
> 
> Contact me for more information
> 01189897601
> grant at connectionsrecruit.co.uk
> 
Grant:

For future reference, did you know about jobs at python.org? Mailings to 
that address will (mostly, this is a volunteer effort) result in a 
posting on http://www.python.org./Jobs.html. Read the HOWTO link there 
for more details.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Oct 18 04:28:23 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:28:23 +0200
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
In-Reply-To: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Chris Lasher wrote:
> Hello,
>   Is there a Python-sensitive, Linux compatible IDE out there with
> standard bells and whistles (source browser, symbolic debugger, etc.)
> but with the action-per-keystroke editing capabilities of Vim? I have
> failed to turn up such an IDE in my Googling and IDE project-page
> browsing. :-(

What about a Python IDE that embed Vim as it's editor ?
http://pida.berlios.de/index.php/Main_Page

HTH
-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From juicy_killa at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:02:34 2005
From: juicy_killa at hotmail.com (accolades)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 03:02:34 -0700
Subject: IDE crash
Message-ID: <1128417896.844932.154240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

We've discussed this before in the group; IDEs that crash on completion
of a PyGame or PyOgre (or any other graphics library) script.

I have had this result with pretty much every IDE that I have tried.
Except Eclipse.

I just wanted to let everyone know, (in case anyone else out there is
picky about  being able to launch their program from within an IDE)
that Eclipse with PyDev or TruStudio does not crash upon exit of
graphics mode applications.

I have been using Eclipse with PyDev exclusively for a few weeks now,
and I am very pleased with the results.



From felix at keyremovethisghost.com  Wed Oct 19 23:55:39 2005
From: felix at keyremovethisghost.com (Felix Collins)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:55:39 +1300
Subject: Trouble with win32com and MS Project
In-Reply-To: <PvD5f.1507$S24.103329@news.xtra.co.nz>
References: <PvD5f.1507$S24.103329@news.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <%yE5f.1520$S24.104343@news.xtra.co.nz>

Felix Collins wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to assign a resource to a task in MS Project by using the 
> example from MSDN for VB...
> 
> 
> "Use the Add method to add an Assignment object to the Assignments 
> collection. The following example adds a resource identified by the 
> number of 212 as a new assignment for the specified task.
> 
> ActiveProject.Tasks(1).Assignments.Add ResourceID:=212"
> 
> My code fragment for Python...
> 
> proj.Tasks(3).Assignments.Add(ResourceID=2)

I managed to get this to work by providing the TaskID which is supposed 
to be an optional argument.  I wonder if the win32com wrapper is 
stuffing this up.  Is late binding responsible perhaps?

So the code that works is...

proj.Tasks(3).Assignments.Add(TaskID= 3,ResourceID=2)

incidently this also works...

proj.Tasks(3).Assignments.Add(TaskID= 5,ResourceID=2)

which does seems a bit strange....


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Fri Oct 21 11:49:52 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:49:52 -0500
Subject: HELP! py2exe error - No module named decimal
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1dc2c961a05f1f8f989688@news2.atlantic.net>
References: <MPG.1dc2c961a05f1f8f989688@news2.atlantic.net>
Message-ID: <43590E20.5020908@websafe.com>

FYI there is a separate newsgroup for py2exe at
gmane.comp.python.py2exe.  You may want to post
there also.

Just as a suggestion, put an import decimal at
the top of your program.  It looks like _mssql
might be doing dynamic imports in __load method
which will "confuse" py2exe because it can't
know about dynamic imports which happen at
runtime.

-Larry Bates

Chris wrote:
> I've just completed a project using the following (Windows XP, python 
> 2.4.1, wxpython 2.6, and pymssql 0.7.3). The program runs great, but 
> after I convert it to an exe (required for this project), it gives me 
> the following error when I try to run it.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "EstUpdate.py", line 6, in ?
>   File "frmSplash.pyc", line 9, in ?
>   File "pymssql.pyc", line 23, in ?
>   File "_mssql.pyc", line 9, in ?
>   File "_mssql.pyc", line 7, in __load
> ImportError: No module named decimal
> 
> However, when I look in c:\python24\lib on the machine which ran py2exe, 
> I see decimal.py and decimal.pyc.
> 
> Can someone please help with this? I'm supposed to start testing the 
> program today and I can't seem to move past this first step.
> 
> Thanks!!
> Chris


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 31 10:00:49 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:00:49 -0700
Subject: mixin helper class for unknown attribute access?
References: <Mvm9f.25313$m%6.18781@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.31.12.40.23.812468@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ono9f.25939$m%6.21522@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.31.13.44.35.552748@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h5ad4d.1a4a3zy1g39e3N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
   ...
> Trying to prevent setting new attributes is a pretty heavy-handed act just
> to prevent a tiny subset of errors. Many people argue strongly that even
> if you could do it, it would be pointless -- or at least, the cost is far
> greater than whatever small benefit there is.

I entirely agree with you (also about the use of __slots__ being a
particularly WRONG way to achieve this).  When I have to suggest a mixin
to avoid accidental setting of misspelled attributes (which does appear
to be a clinically certifiable phobia of programmers coming to Python
from certain other languages) I suggest something like:

class Rats(object):
  def __setattr__(self, name, value):
    if hasattr(self, name):
      super(Rats, self).__setattr__(name, value)
    else:
      raise AttributeError, "can't set attribute %r" % (name,)

The key idea is to exploit hasattr's semantics -- it checks the class as
well as the specific instance.

Example use case:

class Bah(Rats):
  foo = bar = baz = 23

now, given b=Bah(), you can set b.foo, b.bar and b.baz, but no other
attribute of b (of course you can bypass the restriction easily -- such
restrictions are always intended against *accidental* cases, not against
deliberate attacks).

Differently from __slots__, Rats gives no problems with pickling,
inheritance, etc, etc.


Alex


From cj at nowhere.com  Sun Oct  9 03:02:52 2005
From: cj at nowhere.com (CJ)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:02:52 GMT
Subject: Here I am again, same old arguments
Message-ID: <wg32f.411657$x96.212964@attbi_s72>

 
   Okay, same program, different issue. Thanks to the help that I was 
given I was able to complete my program to find variables in a list that 
were repeated, and display them once, and how many times they appeared in 
the list. And it worked great! 

   But, being the perfectionist that I am, I wanted to make the proggie 
allow any size of list, and not have to be recoded every time. So step 
one was to not make the program reliant on the list itself being of X 
length all the time.

   Well, for some reason, the FOR loop is altering two of my lists. Using 
PRINT magic, I was able to narrow down the lines that were causing it. 
But the question remains: Why is it doing this? I'm sure there's a simple 
answer that I just overlooked in the manual or something.

So without further ado, the code:


#setup variables
grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67]
grubrpt=grub
cntro=0
cntrt=0
rpt=0
skipped=0

#set up for variable length of grub
ttllen=len(grub)-1
print "The heck is this for loop doing?"
for point in range(0,ttllen,1):
    print "Here's Grub=",grub
    print "And grubrpt=",grubrpt
    grubrpt[point]="blk"

#Makes sure that there are not multiple prints.
def alrdy_dn(grub,grubrpt): 
    if grub[cntro] in grubrpt:
        return grubrpt
    else:
        print grub[cntro],"appears in list",rpt,"times."
        grubrpt[grubrpt.index("blk")]=grub[cntro]
        return grubrpt

#removes display of variables not repeated
def no_rpts(skipped,grubrpt): 
    if rpt==0:
        skipped=skipped+1
    else:
        grubrpt=alrdy_dn(grub,grubrpt)
    return skipped

#Main body of code
print "The List is:",grub

while cntro<>len(grub)-1:
    if grub[cntro]==grub[cntrt]:
        rpt=rpt+1
        cntrt=cntrt+1
    else:
        cntrt=cntrt+1
    if cntrt==len(grub):
        skipped=no_rpts(skipped,grubrpt)
        cntro=cntro+1
        cntrt=0
        rpt=-1
        
print skipped,"list elements are unique."


And the award winning Output:

The heck is this for loop doing?
Here's Grub= [3, 25, 3, 5, 3, 'a', 'a', 'BOB', 3, 3, 45, 36, 26, 25, 'a', 
3, 3, 3, 'bob', 'BOB', 67]
And grubrpt= [3, 25, 3, 5, 3, 'a', 'a', 'BOB', 3, 3, 45, 36, 26, 25, 'a', 
3, 3, 3, 'bob', 'BOB', 67]
Here's Grub= ['blk', 25, 3, 5, 3, 'a', 'a', 'BOB', 3, 3, 45, 36, 26, 25, 
'a', 3, 3, 3, 'bob', 'BOB', 67]
And grubrpt= ['blk', 25, 3, 5, 3, 'a', 'a', 'BOB', 3, 3, 45, 36, 26, 25, 
'a', 3, 3, 3, 'bob', 'BOB', 67]
Here's Grub= ['blk', 'blk', 3, 5, 3, 'a', 'a', 'BOB', 3, 3, 45, 36, 26, 
25, 'a', 3, 3, 3, 'bob', 'BOB', 67]
And grubrpt= ['blk', 'blk', 3, 5, 3, 'a', 'a', 'BOB', 3, 3, 45, 36, 26, 
25, 'a', 3, 3, 3, 'bob', 'BOB', 67]

   It goes on like that, I'm not going to put all of it here for obvious 
reasons. But, if I take out the whole for loop and the lines relating to 
it and statically assign grubrpt as ["blk","blk"...] then the program 
runs wonderfully.


   From what I understand, you can never have too many functions, so I 
tried to make the grub "blk" a function and got the same result. I'm 
still nailing them down, so if my functions look a little weird you know 
why. Also, I do realize that there is an easier way to do this, I just 
created a little project for myself to learn the basics of the language.

        Thanks for all the help!
-CJ



From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Wed Oct 19 22:55:56 2005
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jean-marc)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 19:55:56 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1129776956.254389.188040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I'd believe that would be Lua, but then again what is common to one
might not be to another ;-)



From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 18:02:30 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python name lookups
Message-ID: <20051010220230.98030.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello All,

As far as I understand, Python deals with a lot of
string objects, i.e. it looks up all names. Is there a
way to find out how many name lookup operations take
place in a Python program? Is it the name lookup
operation or hash operation that degrades performance?
What function does Python use for name lookup
operations? Is it the lookdict function in
Objects/dictobject.c?

Thank you for your help!


		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From lycka at carmen.se  Fri Oct 14 10:12:27 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:12:27 +0200
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1129230950.305013.302200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1994.1129198329.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129230950.305013.302200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dioecb$ljm$1@wake.carmen.se>

Rune Strand wrote:
> I've read a lot of your comments the last years. Your friendliness
> always strikes me.

Trying to be ironic? He *is* always right though! ;)

If ones ideas are getting shut down by people like Fredrik
and Steve, the rational reaction would be to assume that
they are right and that it was a bad idea. Sure, it's ok to
ask follow-up questions to understand why, but you can't expect
everybody to spend as much time explaining as Alex did, and
comments like "in your rush to pin-point lousy code, you
didn't read that, I suppose" aren't exactly constructive.

There are certainly postings made by various people in fora
such as comp.lang.python that seem less friendly than one
would prefer, and text based fora such as these obviously
don't give the same immediate emotional feedback as face to
face communication, so it's easy to hurt or get hurt, even
if that's not what people intend.

This is a small "cost" that comes with usenet and mailing
lists, and I think it's clearly worth it for us who ask for
help.

If you've read a lot of Fredrik's comments the last years, I
assume you've figured out by now that he knows Python very,
very well, and spends a lot of time helping a lot of people.
He also belongs to the fairly small group of people who've
made significant contributions to the Python core and also
written excellent third party modules.

You might feel that he's a bit grumpy for your taste, but I
think that we all owe him and many others on comp.lang.python
a lot. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I certainly prefer grumpy but good advice over friendly rubbish.


/Magnus


From rsteiner at visi.com  Mon Oct 17 23:32:42 2005
From: rsteiner at visi.com (Richard Steiner)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:32:42 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com> <8qs723-dr7.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l3kmgggj66800@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <azGVDpHpvOIa092yn@visi.com>

Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
John Wingate <johnww at worldpath.net> spake unto us, saying:

>Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:

>> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
>> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?
>
>Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.

MS-DOS 3.3 was the most popular DOS release back in 1987/1988.  I don't
recall there ever being a 3.4 release, though.

-- 
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
  OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
       WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
                   The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 17:00:26 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:00:26 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <KFc6f.5081$q%.3357@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> "Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
> 
>
> 
> Some. To continue clarifying:
> 
> The phrase "cgi script" refers to a server-side script that is run in
> response to the user clicking something on the client. That's what you
> expect it to be, right?
> 
Yes, the cgi script on the server side hooks up to the local (server) smart
card

> Do you expect the plugin to display a form? Or to ouput a form that
> the client will display?
No, I want of all the "html" stuff to be handled by the server

> 
> You've got lots of stuff going on here. I count at least five programs
> and three network connections. How much is working, and which parts
> are you trying to do in Python?

I am starting from existing applications (cross-platform - and in python
99% ) that work even through tcp-ip (sockets).

I am just trying to apply them to a web environement.

So prior to any user interaction with the page, I need some data exchange
between the plugin and the server (authentication).

So _if_ (I'm a web newbie) the server and the clien(plugin) could exchange
data through some form field, my prototype would be much further along.


Here is a small picture:
Smart Card <-> driver <-> cgi <-> apache ...... [NET]........ browser <->
plugin <-> driver <-> Smart Card




Regards,

Philippe



> 
>     <mike



From nil at dev.nul  Sun Oct 16 13:42:11 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:42:11 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no><1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch><1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews><mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org><difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch><434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net><digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch><1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch><pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch><pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch><cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com><dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.2137.1129475887.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <diu3di$gd9$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.2137.1129475887.509.python-list at python.org...
> Christian Stapfer wrote:
>
>> As to the value of complexity theory for creativity
>> in programming (even though you seem to believe that
>> a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
>> creativity), the story of the discovery of an efficient
>> string searching algorithm by D.E.Knuth provides an
>> interesting case in point. Knuth based himself on
>> seemingly quite "uncreatively theoretical work" (from
>> *your* point of view) that gave a *better* value for
>> the computuational complexity of string searching
>> than any of the then known algorithms could provide.
>
> are you talking about KMP?

Yes. I cannot give you the source of the story,
unfortunately, because I only have the *memory* of
it but don't know exactly *where* I happended to read
it. There, Knuth was said to have first analyzed the
theoretical argument very, very carefully to figure
out *why* it was that the theoretical bound was so
much better than all "practically known" algorithms.
It was by studing the theoretical work on computational
complexity *only* that the light dawned upon him.
(But of course, Knuth is "an uncreative dumbo fit
 only for production work" - I am speaking ironically
 here, which should be obvious.)

>  I'm not sure that's really a good example of
> how useful "theoretical work" really is in practice:

Oh sure, yes, yes, it is. But my problem is to find
a good source of the original story. Maybe one
of the readers of this thread can provide it?

> the "better" computational complexity of KMP has
> turned out to be mostly useless, in practice.

Well, that's how things might turn out in the long run.
Still, at the time, to all appearances, it *was* a
case of practical creativity *triggered* by apparently
purely theoretical work in complexity theory.

 More interesting than your trying to shoot down
one special case of the more general phenomenon of
theory engendering creativity would be to know
your position on the more general question...

 It happens *often* in physics, you known. Einstein
is only one example of many. Pauli's prediction of
the existence of the neutrino is another. It took
experimentalists a great deal of time and patience
(about 20 years, I am told) until they could finally
muster something amounting to "experimental proof"
of Pauli's conjecture.

Regards,
Christian
-- 
"Experience without theory is blind,
 but theory without experience is mere
 intellectual play."
 - Immanuel Kant

?Experience remains, of course, the sole criterion
 of the *utility* of a mathematical construction.
 But *the*creative*principle* resides in mathematics.?
 - Albert Einstein: ?The World As I See It?

?The astronomer Walter Baade told me that, when he
 was dining with Pauli one day, Pauli exclaimed,
 "Today I have done the worst thing for a theoretical
 physicist. I have invented something which can never
 be detected experimentally." Baade immediately offered
 to bet a crate of champagne that the elusive neutrino
 would one day prove amenable to experimental discovery.
 Pauli accepted, unwisely failing to specify any time
 limit, which made it impossible for him ever to win
 the bet. Baade collected his crate of champagne (as
 I can testify, having helped Baade consume a bottle of it)
 when, just over twenty years later, in 1953, Cowan and
 Reines did indeed succeed in detecting Pauli?s particle.?
 - Fred Hoyle: ?Astronomy and Cosmology?




From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 12:17:49 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:17:49 +0200
Subject: change a value to NULL?
In-Reply-To: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F0D@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
References: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F0D@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
Message-ID: <4343FCAD.9020102@designaproduct.biz>

Bell, Kevin wrote:

>I'm pulling a list of numbers from MS Excel, but occasionally if there
>is no data from excel, the value is an asterisk, but I need to make it
>null.  
>
>What is the best way to do that?  Thus far, I'm using:
>
>
>for value in myRange:
>       try:
>           intV = int(value)
>           print intV
>       except:
>           print "its an asterisk" 
>  
>
I'm affraid I did not understand what is your real problem.
Here is an answer, anyway.

When converting a string intoto an int, you should use TypeError to trap 
type errors only:

try:
  intV = int(value)
except TypeError:
  intV = None

print intV # It will be None if 'value' is not an int

Best,

   Les





From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 11:44:57 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:44:57 +0100
Subject: __getattr__, __setattr__
In-Reply-To: <k6g88btb.fsf@python.net>
References: <k6g88btb.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <dj8e1m$b85$2@sea.gmane.org>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Just wondering about this behaviour, why is it this way?
> 
> Python 2.4.2 (#67, Sep 28 2005, 12:41:11) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>object.__setattr__
> 
> <slot wrapper '__setattr__' of 'object' objects>
> 
>>>>object.__getattr__
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: type object 'object' has no attribute '__getattr__'
> 
Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> object.__getattribute__
<slot wrapper '__getattribute__' of 'object' objects>

Ring any bells?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From rpmuller at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 13:35:53 2005
From: rpmuller at gmail.com (RickMuller)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 10:35:53 -0700
Subject: distutils - distributing non-python data files
Message-ID: <1130261753.871759.11690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I really appreciate the ease that the distutils make distributing
Python modules. However, I have a question about using them to
distribute non-Python (i.e. text) data files that support Python
modules. Currently when I have data of this type, I parse it into
python objects and make a python module from it. In other words, given
a data file like

% cat grocery_list.txt
eggs
spam
cheese

I would make a data structure like
grocery_list = ['eggs', 'spam', 'cheese']
which can be easily imported from a python file, and which the
distutils installation programs make it easy for me to find on the
Python path.

Of course, the data I'm using is much more complex than this, but you
get the idea. I'm starting to feel like this is a Bad Thing, because if
the data file is distributed as a plain text file (e.g. data values in
columns), I'm putting a barrier to updating the data if I have to parse
a new file into Python. But I don't know whether there is a better way
to include a file like 'grocery_list.txt' in my python
distutils-distributed module so that I can get it from my other python
modules?



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 24 04:14:04 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:14:04 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2359.1129899270.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2359.1129899270.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435c97cd$0$14034$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Michael Ekstrand wrote:
> On Friday 21 October 2005 07:07, bruno modulix wrote:
> 
>>>>Python is more like Java.
>>
>><troll>
>>Err... Python is more like what Java would have been if Java was a
>>smart dynamic hi-level object oriented language !-)
>></troll>
> 
> 
> +1. Python is easily applicable to most of the problem domain of Java, 
> but solves problems much more elegantly. It just isn't shipped embedded 
> in all leading browsers :-(.

It's been a long time since I last saw a Java applet on a website.


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From mhellwig at xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 15 15:55:16 2005
From: mhellwig at xs4all.nl (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:55:16 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F08542455F6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<4350b0ee$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<Xns96F08542455F6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <43515eab$0$11078$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

John Bokma wrote:
<cut>
> You mean like the lamp that keeps burning forever, like Philips has?
> 

No more like all the hydrogen technologies that shell has in their 
possession for the last decades and only recently has begun to restart 
those projects.

>> Although Commodore where never serious competitors,
> 
> Because there programming skills were as worse as MS? I mean, their 
> BASIC had only 2 instuctions: PEEK and POKE?

eehm Amiga?

<cut>
> 
> Yet you call NT slightly better compared to Windows 95. So you have no 
> clue what you're talking about.

So I see you never worked serious with 3.5 .

> 
>> hey I make money of them administrating them, 
>> however to state that if we didn't had MS we would been in the IT
>> stone ages is blatantly wrong,
> 
> Now there is truth.
> 
>> I think we would have been a lot
>> further
> 
> No, since companies are just companies, not little gods like some want 
> them to be.
> 
>> then where we are now. Perhaps we even had a other mainstream
>> architecture like sparcs and powerpc's.
> 
> But "crippled" like Intel.

Yeah right sparc is crippled...




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct  2 16:54:50 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 15:54:50 -0500
Subject: Statement orders
In-Reply-To: <3qaqvpFe1bjcU1@news.dfncis.de>
References: <1128236799.839645.101270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1338.1128238804.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3qanooFdu6okU1@news.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.1353.1128280082.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3qaqvpFe1bjcU1@news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20051002205450.GA16201@unpythonic.net>

> would it be advisable to guard against this with something like this?
> 
> def perform_longrunning_calculation():
>      if not app.busy:
>          app.busy = 1
[...]
By using that kind of construct, instead of using update_idletasks(), 
you force all code to be aware of and manage the app.busy flag.

Another difference is that with the original code changed to use
update_idletasks(), perform_longrunning_calculation *will* be called
twice, the second time after the first one completes.  With your code,
it will be called once if the second keypress comes within one second, and
twice if called after one second is up. (though a second update before setting
busy back to false will make it be called only once)

So in also depends on what you want your application to do in these cases.

Jeff
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From almondb at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 19:35:31 2005
From: almondb at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 16:35:31 -0800
Subject: looking for a good python module for MS SQL server
In-Reply-To: <dk6211$n1n$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <dk61nj$mm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
	<dk6211$n1n$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <1130805331.741384.298320@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've had good results with adodbapi as well.



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 11 10:29:37 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:29:37 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<200510071643.11162.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<di83sd$v87$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1854.1128976926.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11knj2hipq4q3b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-10, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>> I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for 
>> embiggening prices.
>
> Not nearly as much as the DoD, from what I hear.
>
> Truthfully, I think those stories are bit exaggerated -- I think the
> real problem is somebody making a bad make/buy decision. They decide
> to make something that they could easily have bought at the hardware
> store.

That and the combination of low volumes and the cost of
testing. They want something seemingly simple (say a hammer),
but they want it tested and certified to a particular set of
functional and environmental specs.  That takes literally
man-years of effort, and then they only end up buying 3 of
them.  The cost of the testing gets divided by three and added
onto the unit cost.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Jesus is my
                                  at               POSTMASTER GENERAL...
                               visi.com            


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 03:02:51 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:02:51 +0100
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diiceu$51k$1@sea.gmane.org>

Johnny Lee wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>>Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>   ...
>>
>>>   try:
>>>      webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url)
>>>   except urllib2.URLError:
>>
>>   ...
>>
>>>   webPage.close()
>>>   return True
>>>----------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>   But every time when I ran to the 70 to 75 urls (that means 70-75
>>>urls have been tested via this way), the program will crash and all the
>>>urls left will raise urllib2.URLError until the program exits. I tried
>>>many ways to work it out, using urllib, set a sleep(1) in the filter (I
>>>thought it was the massive urls crashed the program). But none works.
>>>BTW, if I set the url from which the program crashed to base url, the
>>>program will still crashed at the 70-75 url. How can I solve this
>>>problem? thanks for your help
>>
>>Sure looks like a resource leak somewhere (probably leaving a file open
>>until your program hits some wall of maximum simultaneously open files),
>>but I can't reproduce it here (MacOSX, tried both Python 2.3.5 and
>>2.4.1).  What version of Python are you using, and on what platform?
>>Maybe a simple Python upgrade might fix your problem...
>>
>>
>>Alex
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info you provided. I'm using 2.4.1 on cygwin of WinXP.
> If you want to reproduce the problem, I can send the source to you.
> 
> This morning I found that this is caused by urllib2. When I use urllib
> instead of urllib2, it won't crash any more. But the matters is that I
> want to catch the HTTP 404 Error which is handled by FancyURLopener in
> urllib.open(). So I can't catch it.
> 

I'm using exactly that configuration, so if you let me have that source 
I could take a look at it for you.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 14:51:08 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:51:08 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <1128796692.f0f5a29fda81a72649660a18751c0512@teranews>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128796692.f0f5a29fda81a72649660a18751c0512@teranews>
Message-ID: <HZKdnQ5_z8GuiNXe4p2dnA@telenor.com>

George Sakkis wrote:
<snip>
> Cool, you re-invented the memoization pattern:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/search?query=memoize&x=0&y=0&section=PYTHONCKBK&type=Subsection
> 
> Yes, it's kinda discouraging that most interesting ideas have already been conceived, implemented
> and used by others...<wink>
<snip>

I know, I've been scouring over the ASPN recipes and digging through 
code like there's no tomorrow.

But, I don't view it as pointless even though there are existing 
implementations and solutions out there.

First of all, I don't like to stuff a lot of what is obviously library 
type of code into a project, unless I can reference a library that got 
that function or class or whatnot. Creates a rather big maintenance 
nightmare :)

So, I would have to stuff that into a library, which is what I did with 
my "own" function (thank you for helping btw). The recipe on ASPN is 
probably better than what I got, but... I understand how my solution 
came about and what makes it tick.

Secondly, I've been "programming" Python for, what, about 11 days now or 
so, so I want to re-implement as much as possibly right now, even to the 
point where I create a worse solution than an existing one, as long as 
it works for me, just to be able to learn the nuances of Python, because 
Python is ... different than what I'm used to.

For instance, in C# and .NET you got attributes, but they don't actually 
do anything on their own, in other words you can't tag a method and have 
the operation of that method deviate from a similar method without the 
attribute, unless you pick one of the attributes the compiler knows 
about, so it's just meta-data that sits silent until some other method 
goes around to look for it.

In Python I've now learned that a function is just an object like 
everything else and I can wrap a new object around it to modify its 
behaviour, and I can use the decorator pattern to do it.

I'm probably going to be back here in a few days or even hours with 
another "task" where you can probably cough up dozens of existing source 
code solutions that I could use.

For instance, there's this thing I've heard of called the "wheel".....

:)

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct  7 09:28:24 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:28:24 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>

"Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lassevk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok, that one looks more sleak than what I came up with.

For the most efficient and elegant solution, check out Raymond Hettinger's reply to:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/141934

George




From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Wed Oct 19 08:46:38 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:46:38 -0400
Subject: Yes, this is a python question, and a serious one at that (moving
	to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2222.1129654883.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>	<434f8a54$0$16641$626a14ce@news.free.fr>	<slrndl1a35.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<mailman.2222.1129654883.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dj5f7i$3vh$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Chris Lambacher wrote:
> The shell that comes with MSys (from the MinGW guys). Is pretty good, although
> it does have a bit of a problem with stdout output before a process exits, ie
> it will hold back output until the process exits.
> 
> As a bonus, the file system is a little more sane, and if you are interested
> in compiling software that is not open source, you are not tied to the Cygwin
> DLL which is GPLed.

Worth mentioning here that cygwin's gcc does allow a -mno-cygwin 
compile-time flag to not link against the cygwin dll.  Cygwin's 
packaging system also includes the MinGW development libraries as an 
easily installable option, for compiling against mingw's stuff; I've 
done it for Python extensions, in fact.


From karczma at info.unicaen.fr  Thu Oct 13 12:12:01 2005
From: karczma at info.unicaen.fr (Jerzy Karczmarczuk)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:12:01 +0200
Subject: Technical question on complexity.
Message-ID: <dim10h$v2f$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>

Anybody knows where I can find a concrete and guaranteed answer to the following
extremely basic and simple question?

What is the complexity of appending an element at the end of a list?
Concatenating with another?

The point is that I don't know what is the allocation policy... If Python lists
are standard pointer-chained small chunks, then obviously linear. But perhaps
there is some optimisation, after all a tuple uses a contiguous chunk, so it
*might* be possible that a list is essentially equivalent to an array, with its
length stored within, and adding something may be done in constant time (unless
the whole stuff is copied, which again makes the complexity related to the size
of existing structure...)

It is probably possible to retrieve this information from the sources, but I try
first an easier way.
Thank you.

Jerzy Karczmarczuk


From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 18:59:17 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:59:17 -0400
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
References: <mailman.2585.1130323894.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5be533-3nh.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-26, Tim Golden wrote:
> [Sybren Stuvel]
>
> Tim Golden enlightened us with:
>> > Well, I'm with you. I'm sure a lot of people will chime in to point
>> > out just how flexible and useful and productive Linux is as a
>> > workstation, but every time I try to use it -- and I make an honest
>> > effort -- I end up back in Windows
>
>> I'm curious, what do you mean with "it" in the part "every time I try
>> to use it"?
>
> Fair question. I have, over the years, installed and used Gentoo,
> Vector, RH, Ubuntu Breezy (my current choice) and various other 
> flavours and distros. When I "use it" I mean typically that I use 
> whatever desktop-type thing presents itself to me -- Gnome or XFCE 
> or Fluxbox, say -- one or more editors (I tend to try things out to
> see if they suit), and one or more command shells.

   All distros look the same to me, because I have an environment that
   I like, and I keep my home directory acros distros.

> As it happens, (and I suspect I'll have to don my flameproof suit here),
> I prefer the Windows command line to bash/readline for day-to-day use, 
> including in Python. Why? Because it does what I can't for the life of 
> me get readline to do: you can type the first few letters of a 
> previously-entered command and press F8. This brings up (going backwards
> with further presses) the last command which starts like that. And
> *then* you can just down-arrow to retrieve the commands which
> followed it. If someone can tell me how to do this with
> bash/readline I will be indebted to them and it will increase my
> chances of switching to Linux a bit! (Although not at work where I
> have no choice!)

    In my ~/.inputrc:

"\e[a": history-search-backward  ## shift+up-arrow
"\e[b": history-search-forward   ## shift+down-arrow


-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Sat Oct 29 09:35:35 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 06:35:35 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130592935.839750.322930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for your replays (both for WMI and AutoIt beta-release)
but I would be satisfied if I had in Linux something similar to
the standard version of AutoIt!
Concerning WMI, a part the fact that it works only under Windows,
from the examples I have seen, IMHO it is much less powerful than
AutoIt.
In Linux you can easily obtain almost the same results by using shell
programming or by emulation of the shell by means of os.system("shell
command string") in Python.
But the problem is that in Linux you can't even send a keystroke to
a running GUI application!
I want to find a solution in Linux, with the help of experts
(if they don't use only Windows...)  for two reasons:
- the reduced availability in Windows of "free" or "open" applications
- the more severe security problems in Windows.
Concerning the second point, you can correctly argue that this is,
at least partly, due to the wider market share of Windows but IMHO
Linux is more robust in this field, and ...at the present times the
situation is like that!
As I want to use automation mainly in Internet, I am worried of
security and I don't want to spend time and money in anti-virus
and firewalls...
I want to give you an idea of possible applications of automation.
Imagine you want to access a big database from a html server which
only allows you to access such data in chunks pressing a "next"
button on an ASP file. It will take several hours to click the button
and then save the new data supplied by the server!
That is a typical task of AutoIt, very easily programmable,
a part that, during the script execution, you are under virus or
other security treat!
Another example of application is to emulate a spider program to make
searches or downloads in Internet. By emulating a user you can bypass
the restrictions imposed by search engines or html servers on
automatic operations (like wget or urlib).
A last example is for protecting the privacy using several
"anonymizers". That can only be possible with a macro language for
automatic connection to the web anonymizers. Also the subsequent
web operations must be carried out (IMHO!) in an automatic manner.
There are of course plenty of possible application of a macro language
and above all it can save me from be obliged to learn C++ (for Qt).
For example, to make a graph you are not obliged to make a program in
C++ or PyQt to draw and possibly print the graph of your data, but you
need only to program the data preparation then send the data to a
drawing application...
Bye.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 04:32:07 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:32:07 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <IoCBKo.9xx@bath.ac.uk>
	<7xu0fkw6ps.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <IoJpBE.Fsp@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <jnc9l1pdafjk1nl1f75hpv316fjk5v2pd0@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:40:26 GMT, Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote
or quoted :

>I didn't think unicode domain names existed.

you can even buy them. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/domainnames.html

under "Chinese Domain Names".
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk  Wed Oct 12 20:18:03 2005
From: rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk (Ross Bamford)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:18:03 +0100
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<11kj8ghonmialfc@corp.supernews.com>
	<o43rk198ujcqtvccet1blsmfte71vd0gt6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <op.syj5sdgy43pcxb@jukebox.roscopeco>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:27:26 +0100, Roedy Green  
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:04:49 -0000, gordonb.pru8x at burditt.org (Gordon
> Burditt) wrote or quoted :
>
>> I think one necessary function of email and USENET is that it should
>> allow you to SAFELY communicate with strangers or, worse, people
>> you know but do not trust at all,
>
> Yes, but with spam ANY communication with an unwanted stranger is a
> nuisance.
>
> <!-- etc -->

Roedy, I would just _love_ to see the response from the industry when you  
tell them they should dump their whole mail infrastructure, and switch  
over to a whole new system (new protocols, new security holes, new  
problems start to finish). I gather that's the gist of the suggestion, a  
new protocol with built in public key (a fine, well known, accepted term,  
IMHO it doesn't need changing) cryptography and signature support?

IMAP is in many ways better than POP3, but you would be surprised at the  
weight of an accepted standard I think.

-- 
Ross Bamford - rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk


From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 16 01:28:02 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:28:02 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:48:18 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>> news:86ll0vs1sw.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

>>> What you call "clever marketing" the DOJ calls "monopolistic
>>> practices". The courts agreed with the DOJ. Having had several large
>>> PC manufacturers refuse to sell me a system without some form of
>>> Windows because MS made it impossible for them to compete if they
>>> didn't agree to do so, I agree with the courts and the DOJ.
>>
>>     Go down to your local car dealer and see if you can buy a new car
>> without an engine.

> That's a false analogy. A better analogy is, "go to your local car dealer
> and see if you can buy a new car with the tyres of your choice."

    How is that better? Nothing in your car depends upon what tires you have 
on. But all of the rest of the software on your computer is dependent upon 
your choice of OS.

> Even non-technical types can choose to run a non-Windows operating system
> on an Intel-compatible PC. So why do the tier-one vendors and all laptop
> manufacturers make their machines available only with Windows? Or on the
> very few occasions they will offer a naked PC, the price is the same as
> for PC + Windows.

    I don't really know why and I don't particularly care. I think it has a 
lot to do with support costs and may also have to do with the type of deals 
Microsoft offers.

    The point is, they do. And there's nothing unusual, immoral, or 
problemmatic about it. If you don't think the total package is worth the 
total package price, buy elsewhere.

    DS




From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Mon Oct 31 09:22:36 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 14:22:36 GMT
Subject: Automatically creating a HOME environ variable on Windows?
References: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djvgei$5t7$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<1130590817.728832.291020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051029164345.54C1.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
	<slrndmapn1.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<20051031112631.261A.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <slrndmca0f.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:26:30 +0100, Maciej Dziardziel <fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl> wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>
>>> Best solution would be to have portable function that returns
>>> user home directory and knows about all platfom quirks.
>> 
>> Why is that better than Python creating a HOME in os.environ, if it
>> doesn't
>> already exist?  I can think of a few reasons it's better, and a few
>> reasons it's worse.
>
> First, it is possible that HOME viariable already exists and has different
> meaning, (if python is used as embedded scripting language it can be
> defined by application),

And on systems where $HOME exists, that's what this new abstraction would
have to use internally anyway, so us Unix users won't lose anything. OK, I
accept the reasoning.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 01:46:49 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:46:49 +0200
Subject: Newbie Text Processing Question
References: <1128481479.661502.14020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<312cfe2b0510042013t1c3854ecg29ae5648cef5a12f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dhvpcb$mu3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:

>That's how Python works. You read in the whole file, edit it, and write it
> back out.

that's how file systems work.  if file systems generally supported insert
operations, Python would of course support that feature.

</F>





From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:26:10 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:26:10 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <omv4l1l8f6psuelpn5lc13j909c69a09sc@4ax.com>

On 16 Oct 2005 00:47:09 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web based, 
>and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions matter? 

The point is you make your choice based on quality of the OS and
distribution, not whether it can run a given piece of software.

Web apps, Java and other multiplatform tools force OSes to compete on
quality, not on proprietary lockin.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Oct  6 04:55:19 2005
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:55:19 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xirwbn1kl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1517.1128511675.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xek70xhzz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1527.1128516852.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xirwbn1kl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4344E677.4030703@sweetapp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> 
>>OK. The Python compiler would check that the name is declared but it
>>would not check that it is defined before use? So this would be
>>acceptable:
>>
>>def foo():
>>     local x
>>     return x
> 
> 
> Come on, you are asking silly questions.  Any reasonable C compiler
> would flag something like that and Python (with the flag set) should
> do the same.  If you want to ask substantive questions, that's fine,
> but stop wasting our time with silly stuff.

I'm not trying to be silly. I am trying to get a handle on the semantics 
that you are proposing. So we now have two requirements for the new 
declaration syntax (please let me know if I'm wrong):

o the variable must be declared
o the variable must be assigned

I would assume that you would make it so that assignment and delaration 
happen as part of the same statement?

> If type checking is implemented then the stdlib should be updated to
> add declarations for public symbols.  If not, the compiler would flag
> the undeclared symbol.  You could always declare it to be of type 'object'.

Fair enough.

> 
>>     try:
>>          unicode
>>     except NameError:
>>          XML_NAMESPACE<str> = "..."
>>     else:
>>          XML_NAMESPACE<unicode> = u"..."
> 
> 
> This wouldn't be allowed.

OK, that sucks.

> 
>>2. the compiler does not have access to the names in other modules anyway
> 
> 
> You're being silly again.  The compiler would examine the other module
> when it processes the import statement, just like it does now.

Right now, the compiler DOES NOT examine the contents of the other 
modules. All it does is generate an IMPORT_NAME instruction which is 
evaluation during runtime. So are you proposing that the compiler now 
scan other modules during compilation?

>>How would you find the class definition for the Node object at
>>compile-time? 
> 
> 
> By processing the xml.dom module when it's imported.

Import happens at runtime (see above). But you seem to want compile-time 
type checking.

Cheers,
Brian


From quiteblack at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 10:57:35 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (quiteblack at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 07:57:35 -0700
Subject: how to(can we ?) pass argument to .py script ?
In-Reply-To: <1129042115.926410.71880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129039664.425406.265670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129042115.926410.71880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129042655.097833.307550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

hey i got it ! tks guys !



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 11:32:16 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:32:16 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <E9SdnYvL06wSfNreRVnzvA@telenor.com>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<1128783738.588723.200130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<E9SdnYvL06wSfNreRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <vvqdnVu5ZZsKe9re4p2dnA@telenor.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> Sam Pointon wrote:
> 
>> What about not storing args at all? Something like this:
<snip>

Ok, here's my updated version:

class cache(object):
     def __init__(self, timeout=0):
         self.timeout = timeout
         self.cache = {}

     def __call__(self, fn):
         arg_names = inspect.getargspec(fn)[0]
         def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
             # Update named arguments with positional argument values
             kwargs.update(dict(zip(arg_names, args)))

             # Work out key as a tuple of ('argname', value) pairs
             key = tuple(sorted(kwargs.items()))

             # Check cache and return cached value if possible
             if key in self.cache:
                 (value, last_time) = self.cache[key]
                 if self.timeout <= 0 or time.time() - last_time <= 
self.timeout:
                     return value

             # Work out new value, cache it and return it
             result = fn(**kwargs)

             self.cache[key] = (result, time.time())
             return result

         # Return wrapper function
         return cached_result

Changed from previous versions:
- converted to class, must use () on decorator now
- added timeout, results will be recalculated when it expires
- timeout=0 means no timeout, results will always be reused
- now handles both positional and keyword arguments

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Tue Oct 11 02:37:48 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 06:37:48 GMT
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
In-Reply-To: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>

On Mon, 2005-10-10 at 22:58 -0700, mystilleef at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> A user of my application points me to a behavior in gVim,
> the text editor, that I would like to implement in my
> application.
> 
> When gVim is launched from a shell terminal, it completely
> frees the terminal. You can continue to use the terminal for
> whatever purpose you wish, including closing and exiting it,
> without any effect on the running gVim instance.
> 
> How do I implement this in my application written in python?
> I would like to believe it does not involve me forking my
> application in a new process. Maybe there is signal I can
> send to the operating system to achieve this, right?

gvim forks.  Why do you want to avoid it?

import os, sys

pid = os.fork()
if pid !=0:
    # exit parent
    sys.exit(0)
# child continues




From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Sun Oct  2 19:41:01 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 01:41:01 +0200
Subject: python guru.. for a short conversation regarding bittorrent..
References: <mailman.1345.1128266236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xvf0fu7ky.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <je_%e.8536$133.3897@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

If it can helps you "ABC" is a (good) bittorent client written in py.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 28 14:13:06 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:13:06 +0100
Subject: tkinter blues (greens, reds, ...)
In-Reply-To: <1130519159.921821.164420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130519159.921821.164420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djtpng$2ad$1@sea.gmane.org>

Sean McIlroy wrote:
> hi all
> 
> i recently wrote a script that implements a puzzle. the interface
> mostly consists of a bunch of colored disks on a tkinter canvas. the
> problem is that the disks change their colors in ways other than the
> way they're supposed to. it certainly isn't just a bug in my script,
> since i can sometimes change the color of certain disks just by taking
> focus off of the window and then bringing it back again! does this
> sound like some known bug in tkinter? and if so, is there a recommended
> way of working around it? if it matters, i'm using python 2.3 under
> windows 95. any advice will be much appreciated.
> 
It sounds to me much more like a bug in your script, to me at least. 
Change of focus generates windowing events in much the same way as 
clicking a button or hitting a key does, so I don't understand why you 
think that "just [by] taking the focus off the window and bringing it 
back again" shouldn't change anything.

For more specific insights we'd need to see some code, but sometimes 
just changing your own focus from "Tkinter has a bug" to "my code has a 
bug" is enough to help one find out what the problem really is. If you 
have a soft toy I'd recommend you sit it down somewhere and explain to 
it in great detail exactly why it can't be a bug in your program. You 
may find you discover the error with no further assistance.

If not, fire the toy and ask again :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 18:49:41 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:49:41 +0200
Subject: __Classes and type tests
References: <43498D3C.90908@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <dic6q2$glb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brian van den Broek wrote:

> But the academic issue "How/Can it be done?" still itches.

class __TwoUnderBase(object):
      def __init__(self):
          if self.__class__.__name__ == "__TwoUnderBase":
              print "From __TwoUnderBase"
          else:
              print "From subclass",

</F> 





From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sun Oct 16 13:33:45 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:33:45 +0200
Subject: Function to execute only once
In-Reply-To: <43527aa9.156193794@news.oz.net>
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43527aa9.156193794@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <8oqdnTdFif2VEs_eRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
<snip>
>  >>> tmp = 0
>  >>> def execute():
>  ...     global tmp, execute
>  ...     tmp = cellvar = tmp + 1
>  ...     def execute():
>  ...         return cellvar
>  ...     return tmp
<snip>

On man did this put my head into a spin :P

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 23:07:48 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:07:48 -0700
Subject: Why doesn't this work? :)
References: <mailman.2683.1130522569.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h55rvo.g65rvw1eaqg8kN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeremy Moles <jeremy at emperorlinux.com> wrote:

> Am I misunderstanding something fundamental about the builtin __*
> functions? Can they not be "static?"

They can and must be static when their specification say they are (e.g.,
__new__) and they cannot and must not be static when their specification
says otherwise (just about all of them).


Alex


From jim.eggleston at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 09:00:17 2005
From: jim.eggleston at gmail.com (jim.eggleston at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 06:00:17 -0700
Subject: Automatically creating a HOME environ variable on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <djvgei$5t7$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djvgei$5t7$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <1130590817.728832.291020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Cool, even better. So what's best, having code to add HOME
(=USERPROFILE) to os.environ, or change the various places that HOME is
used to check for USERPROFILE?



From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 10 07:38:19 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 04:38:19 -0700
Subject: Changing an AST
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1835.1128943073.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128941690.030540.258790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1835.1128943073.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128944299.588849.167030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you! this "compile/exec in context" is the thing i wanted.

It is not that performant i think. But it should ease the prototyping.



From franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at  Wed Oct  5 09:07:49 2005
From: franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:07:49 +0200
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
	<pan.2005.10.05.12.53.45.534295@remove-this-tammura.at-and.this>
Message-ID: <crj7k1t9oqamgnh5m2h3e2iokv7l8pn5ju@4ax.com>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:53:45 +0200, Tamer Fahmy
<tamer at remove-this-tammura.at-and.this> wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:13:10 +0300, Maksim Kasimov wrote:
>> my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter how
>> long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is nothing in
>> log-files that can points the problem. My question is how it possible to
>> find out where is the problem in the code? Thanks for any help.
>> 
>> Python 2.2.3
>> FreeBSD
>
>you could start your program within a gdb session like so:
>
>$ gdb python
>GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD]
>Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software,
>covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change
>it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show
>copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. 
>Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as
>"i386-marcel-freebsd"...(no debugging symbols found)...
>(gdb) r foo.py
>Starting program: /usr/bin/python foo.py ...
>
>once your progmam segfaults you can then inspect the stack through:
>
>(gdb) bt
>
>cheers,
>  tamer.


Tamer, thanks for your tip.

I tried Jeff's code:

import marshal
f = lambda: None
code =
marshal.loads(marshal.dumps(f.func_code).replace('d\0\0S','d\xff\xffS'))
f.func_code = code
f()

saved it as foo.py, than

C:\Python24\Lib>gdb python
GNU gdb 5.1.1 (mingw experimental)
Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you
are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
conditions.
Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for
details.
This GDB was configured as "mingw32"...(no debugging symbols found)...
(gdb) r foo.py
Starting program: C:\Python24/python.exe foo.py

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x1e027b23 in ?? ()
(gdb) bt
#0  0x1e027b23 in ?? ()
#1  0x00977240 in ?? ()
#2  0x1e1a82b8 in ?? ()
Cannot access memory at address 0x7
(gdb)

How can I interpret this results? ;)

Am I right, that I need a debug build of python built with mingw or
cygwin in Windows?
-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 11:51:59 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 08:51:59 -0700
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <1129477118.700187.17570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129477118.700187.17570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129477919.731857.326050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

thanks. I was looking for scanl in itertools but can't find it so I
implement my own then run into some subtle bugs which first made me
think my scanl is the problem. Then notice my wrong perception about
generator(and iterable in general, though the built-in iterables like
list, dict don't seem to have this characteristic).

Simon Percivall wrote:
> If you find that you want to iterate over an iterable multiple times,
> have a look at the solution that the tee() function in the itertools
> module provides (http://docs.python.org/lib/itertools-functions.html).
> (Have a look at the rest of the itertools module as well, for that
> matter.)



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Mon Oct 10 09:19:58 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:19:58 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1128950434.39fd35611ed1ab1bc0f2addf2fbd88c5@teranews>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at mail.comcast.net> wrote:

> George Sakkis <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:
>    ...
> > > manipulation of a heap to place an item in the right spot, but with 4-5
> > > or a few more sources might not make an impact at all.
> >
> > Unless you're talking about hundreds or thousands sources, it probably
> > won't. I would still go for the heap solution since IMO the resulting
> > code it's more readable and easier to understand.
>
> I'm not so sure about either sentence...:
>
> Helen:~/pynut/samp alex$ python merger.py --numstreams=10 --minlen=100
> --how=S
> Best time for 10 loops: 0.247116088867
>
> Helen:~/pynut/samp alex$ python merger.py --numstreams=10 --minlen=100
> --how=H
> Best time for 10 loops: 0.10344004631
>
> i.e., a heap solution may be over 4 times faster than a sort-based one
> (in the following implementations).

Interesting; I thought timsort on small almost ordered lists would be practically as fast as the
heap. Still, how is 0.10344 over 4 times faster than 0.247116 ?

> Readability seems quite comparable
> (skipping the rest of the infrastructure, which generates random sorted
> streams and ensures a stream is exhausted and verifies it etc etc):
>
> def merge_by_sort(streams):
>   sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next] for i, s in enumerate(streams)]
>   while sources:
>     sources.sort(reverse=True)
>     best_source = sources[-1]
>     yield best_source[0]
>     try: best_source[0] = best_source[-1]()
>     except StopIteration: sources.pop()
>
> def merge_by_heap(streams):
>   sources = [[s.next(), i, s.next] for i, s in enumerate(streams)]
>   heapq.heapify(sources)
>   while sources:
>     best_source = sources[0]
>     yield best_source[0]
>     try: best_source[0] = best_source[-1]()
>     except StopIteration: heapq.heappop(sources)
>     else: heapq.heapreplace(sources, best_source)

Indeed, these are almost equivalent as far as readability goes; the previous examples in the thread
were less clear. By the way, why do you need 'i' and enumerate above ?

> Hmmm, I wonder if something like merge_by_heap would be a good candidate
> for itertool.  Raymond...?
>
>
> Alex

Yes, it would be nice to make it into 2.5.

George




From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct  6 09:19:40 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:19:40 +0200
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3qkmjcFfbem9U1@uni-berlin.de>

Flavio wrote:
> Ok,
> 
> I got it!
> 
> Its vey insecure, and it is not guaranteed to work. Fine.
> 
> Now what would you do if you wanted to pass a lot of variables (like a
> thousand) to a function and did not wanted the declare them in the
> function header?

use a dict or list? This is almost certainly a design smell - and a 
pretty strong one, too.. Nobody is using so many variables and actually 
typing them - so there certainly is some naming scheme that could be 
used to access the values from a dict.

Or, to put it differently: show us the code that uses thousands of 
variables, and we show you how to improve that.

Diez


From OurLab at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 18:23:49 2005
From: OurLab at gmail.com (Alex)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 15:23:49 -0800
Subject: Pickling and unpickling inherited attributes
In-Reply-To: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130714629.049424.237250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Sorry, I copied and pasted a wrong piece from shell at one part of the
code:

objct.Z=4 was in fact obj.Z=4 and it did refuse to accept Z (because it
is not in __slots__).

But the question remains: why the value of attribute A is not preserved
during pickling and unpickling and what can be done about it, if
anything?



From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Oct 26 15:27:53 2005
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 12:27:53 -0700
Subject: Raw string fu
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2614.1130350172.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2614.1130350172.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130354873.546887.271850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

"Raw string fu"?  A new martial art?



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct  3 02:12:04 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 06:12:04 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4340c626.3063122897@news.oz.net>

On 2 Oct 2005 10:31:07 -0700, "El Pitonero" <pitonero at gmail.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
>> I decided to read this thread today, and I still don't know exactly
>> what your requirements are for "private" whatevers.
>
>No name collision in subclassing. Notice that even if you use
>
>self._x = 3
>
>in a parent class, it can be overriden in a sub-sub-class accidentally.
I noticed that, and suggested a GUID-based possible approach ;-)

>
>> Or maybe, what are your real requirements?
>> ;-)
>
>No need for this type of joke.
I'm not sure what you mean, but I meant no offence, just a nudge to
refine the requirements statement, and it seems (and I hope)
Paul took it that way.
[...]
>Would any Python programmer trade the benefits of a highly dynamic
>language with an unessential feature like Java-style "private" data
>members? My guess is not.
ISTM it's not a case of either-or here ;-)
>
>---------------
>
>What do I say Java-style "private" is unessential?
>
>If your Python class/object needs a real Java-style private working
>namespace, you have to ask yourself: do the private variables REALLY
>belong to the class?
Depends on what you mean by "belong" I think ;-)

>
>In my opinion, the answer is: NO. Whenever you have Java-style private
>variables (i.e, non-temporary variables that need to persist from one
>method call to the next time the class node is accessed), those
>variables/features may be better described as another object, separate
>from your main class hierarchy. Why not move them into a foreign worker
>class/object instead, and let that foreign worker object hold those
>private names, and separate them from the main class hierarchy? (In
>Microsoft's jargon: why not use "containment" instead of
>"aggregation"?)
>
>That is, the moment you need Java-style private variables, I think you
>might as well create another class to hold those names and
>functionalities, since they do not belong to the core functionality of
>the main class hierarchy. Whatever inside the core functionality of the
>main class, should perhaps be inheritable, sharable and modifiable.
Such "another class" is what I was suggesting the automatic hidden creation of
when I said
"""
Alternatively, it might be possible to define (in the metaclass call) __getattribute__ for the class
so that it notices when method_foo or method_bar are being accessed to create bound methods, and then bind in
a proxy "self" instead that would have self.private_var on its own "self" and delegate public
attribute accesses to the normal self. Maybe this could get around byte-code-munging at the cost
of easier breakin than via inspect etc., and less run time efficiency. Just musing ...
"""
What kind of implementation were you thinking of?

>
>If you use containment instead of aggregation, the chance for name
>collision reduces dramatically. And in my opinion, it's the Pythonic
>way of dealing with the "private" problem: move things that don't
>belong to this object to some other object, and be happy again.
>
Yes, but how do you propose to implement access the "private" variables without
changing the the "spelling" too much?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 21 18:40:57 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:40:57 -0400
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

jas wrote:
> I would like to redirect the output from os.system to a variable, but
> am having trouble.  I tried using os.popen(..).read() ...but that
> doesn't give me exactly what i want.

Here is an example using subprocess:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/9fa3a3c287e8e2a3?hl=en&

Kent

> 
> ..this is windows by the way.
> 
> For example:
> tmp = os.popen("hostname").read()
> 
> ...works as expected.
> 
> however,
> 
> tmp = os.popen("cmd").read()
> ...i would like to have access to the cmd process...i.e. enter commands
> like a normal command line. os.system() allows this, but i dont want
> output to the screen..i wanna store it to a variable.  then send
> content of variable elsewhere,  receive more input and submit it.
> almost emulate the windows command prompt.
> 
> any ideas?
> 


From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:27:07 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:27:07 -0700
Subject: How do you draw this layout with wxpython?
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-FA8B2A.12310017102005@news.verizon.net>
References: <1129531620.723991.53140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<*firstname*nlsnews-FA8B2A.12310017102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1129573627.328049.308810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ask this question on the very active wxPython-users mailing list
(http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxpython-users). For sure
someone will help you out. If you don't want to write the code
yourself, but use a visual gui designer I strongly recommend using
wxGlade (http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/), which is very simple and
neat. It uses sizers by default, which has the advantage that you're
dialog box will be rescalable.

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor (ships btw with wxGlade)
http://pythonide.stani.be



From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Oct 10 20:39:02 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:39:02 GMT
Subject: rrdtool?
References: <pan.2005.10.10.19.04.36.350250@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128975509.418396.232840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.00.11.28.456618@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:18:29 -0700, Grig Gheorghiu wrote:

> By sheer coincidence I was looking into the same thing today. I just
> downloaded the latest rrdtool release (rrdtool-1.2.11) and I noticed a
> /bindings/python subdirectory. I haven't played with it yet, as I still
> need to install tons of prerequisites before I can build rrdtool.
> 
> Grig

Thanks for the response.

I saw some python bindings for rrdtool, but what I had in mind was more
like a graphing frontend in python that uses data stored in rrdtool... 
Anything like that out there?

Thanks!



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 09:01:49 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 06:01:49 -0700
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130044581.644967.254230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<GCF6f.268294$1i.188500@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <1130072509.630373.146270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Mac users of SPE collected money for me to buy a Mac. This means that
in the near future SPE will be especially improved for Mac. So feedback
from Mac users is more than welcome and will probably be taken into
account. SPE is a free, open source IDE with a lot of features like a
debugger, UML diagrams and a GUI designer.

Stani
--
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 06:47:31 2005
From: Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?S=E9bastien_Boisg=E9rault?=)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 03:47:31 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128794785.152776.116370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051008233140.77ad2c2e@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1128941251.054780.324900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Nicolas,

I am aware of some shortcomings and design flaws of Simulink,
especially in the code generation area. I am interested by
your paper nonetheless, please send me copy.

However, Simulink is used by many people on a day-to-day basis
in the context of big, industrial projects. The claim that it
is "next to unusable" is, in my book, an overstatement ...

Scicos is not perfect either but you can hardly say that is
is a simple clone of Simulink. No time and space to go into
the details ...

Obviously, the python community is very dynamic, but how much
support will you get in the very specific topic of continuous
time systems simulation ?

IMHO, an hybrid approach, such as the development of bridge
to include Python components into Simulink/Scicos/Ptolemy/
Modelica/pick_your_favorite_simulator may grant you more
interest from the simulation community.

Cheers,

SB



Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> Simulink is well fitted for small simulators, but when you run into big
> projects, I find many shortcomings appears which made the whole thing
> next to unusable for our kind of projects.
> That's why I'm interested in Python by the way, it is not a simple clone
> like Scilab/Scicos. It is a real language which bring its own
> advantages, and its own shortcomings, which I find well suited for our
> activity.
>
> If you want, I can send you a paper I wrote last year, detailing all
> Simulink shortcomings. I doubt that this mailing list is interested in
> such things...(and it's in French...).
> Concerning Scilab/Scicos, I'm not really interested in a technology
> primarily developed (INRIA and ENSPC) and used by France. Python and all
> its libraries and communities are so much more dynamic !
> And also I've heard that Scilab was developed in Fortran in a way which
> make it rigid and that the sources are poorly documented, not a good
> sign for an open source software (and Scilab isn't 'Free' for the FSF).
>
> Regards,
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 8 Oct 2005 11:06:25 -0700, "S?bastien Boisg?rault"
> <Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com> wrote :
>
> >
> > Simulink is a framework widely used by the control engineers ...
> > It is not *perfect* but the ODEs piece is probably the best
> > part of the simulator. Why were you not convinced ?
> >
> > You may also have a look at Scicos and Ptolemy II. These
> > simulators are open-source ... but not based on Python.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > SB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nicolas Pernetty a ?crit :
> >
> > > Hello Phil,
> > >
> > > Yes I have considered Octave. In fact I'm already using Matlab and
> > > decided to 'reject' it for Python + Numeric/numarray + SciPy because
> > > I think you could do more in Python and in more simple ways.
> > >
> > > Problem is that neither Octave, Matlab and Python offer today a
> > > framework to build continuous system simulator (in fact Matlab with
> > > Simulink and SimMechanics, do propose, but I was not convinced at
> > > all).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >
> > > On 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com wrote :
> > >
> > > > Nicholas,
> > > >
> > > > Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe it can
> > > > talk to Python.
> > > > Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including having
> > > > ODE solvers. I have successfully used it to model and simulate
> > > > simple systems. Complex system would be easy to model as well,
> > > > provided that you model your dynamic elements with (systems of)
> > > > differential equations.
> > > >
> >



From mhellwig at xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 25 14:24:40 2005
From: mhellwig at xs4all.nl (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:24:40 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <435e786f$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Not Bill Gates wrote:
> steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au wrote...
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:
>>
>>> Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  
>> You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
>> the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?
> 
> You need to first prove innovation in desktop software has been 
> crippled, don't you?
> 

How about their "java" implementation between 1998 and 2004?
Sure killed the _easier_ write once run everywhere mantra, of course 
they where not alone in the killing, SUN helped a great deal.

-- 
mph


From http  Sun Oct  9 17:13:04 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 14:13:04 -0700
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1796.1128872448.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xzmpi1jj3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> No. I'm obsessed with finding out what closures are, since nobody seems to
> have a good definition of them!

Why don't you read SICP:

   http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

You will be a much wiser person for having done so.

> However, I have learnt some things: closures are something which
> functions HAVE, not ARE. 

Nah, that describes the data layout through which CPython implements
closures, not the bigger idea of what closures are.

> The func_closure attribute is just part of the implementation of the
> closure. Some languages have closures and some don't. And a closure
> is something that lets a function object access the lexical scope
> that existed when the function object was created, e.g. the
> namespace of the function which created it.

I'd say, the closure is the function's executable code, plus the
lexical environment that got recorded at the time the function was
created.


From dawenliu at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 16:29:27 2005
From: dawenliu at gmail.com (dawenliu at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 13:29:27 -0700
Subject: how to discard a line if it's not a number?
Message-ID: <1130617767.659563.158050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I'm reading a file line by line, and whenever a line is not
consisted of a single number (such as 0.315), I want to discard that
line (and store only the single numbers).

For example,

0.315
discarded this line of text
3.8
-1.44
forget about me also
2.6


Then I want to store only the four numbers into another file, without
the two sentences.  
Suggestions are appreciated!



From no at spam  Wed Oct  5 16:59:54 2005
From: no at spam (Mike)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:59:54 -0400
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
In-Reply-To: <slrndk8d0c.ael.klaus@main.szn.dk>
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>
	<slrndk8d0c.ael.klaus@main.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <1128545979.146190@nntp.acecape.com>

In playing with this I found link.replace does work but when I use

link.replace('&amp;','&')

it replaces it with &amp; instead of just &.  link.replace is working 
for me since if I changed the second option from & to something else I 
see the change.

So it seems link.replace() function reads whether the first option is 
utf-8 and converts the second option automatically to utf-8?  How do I 
prevent that?

Thanks again.


From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 10 06:54:50 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 03:54:50 -0700
Subject: Changing an AST
Message-ID: <1128941690.030540.258790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Is it possible compiler.parse a statement, then change and then
execute/resolve it?

Background:
I'm probably to lazy to write my own parser.

I have such a statement as string: "distance = x**2 + y**2"
x and y are undefined, so it is no executable Python code, but it is
parseable. Now i'd like traverse through the AST and change Name('x')
for the value i have elsewhere. And finally let Python resolve the
computation.

More Background:
I want to write a simulation game with many interdepended values. I
don't want to create a class with dozens of functions, but let Python
create/evaluate them.

I hope this can be understood ;)



From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Tue Oct  4 19:18:38 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:18:38 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1128467917.312.22.camel@blackwidow>

[Removed X-posting]

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 17:14 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0500, l v <lv at aol.com> wrote or quoted :
> 
> >I think e-mail should be text only. 
> 
> I disagree.  Your problem  is spam, not HTML. Spam is associated with
> HTML and people have in Pavlovian fashion come to hate HTML.
> 
> But HTML is not the problem! 

And guns don't kill people: people kill people!

Seriously though, plain-text is just plain [n]etiquette (for most
newsgroups/mailing lists (at least the technical ones)).  Follow the
rules and avoid becoming a social outcast.  If your particular forum
allows/encourages HTML then <tag> away!  

( This post is neither x-posted, HTML-ized, closed-captioned nor
simulcast in Spanish or HD )



From gordonb.g6z7y at burditt.org  Thu Oct 13 15:04:54 2005
From: gordonb.g6z7y at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:04:54 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<b89rk1phchi0224ha46cq1k1rqvld2a3jf@4ax.com>
	<11krdosli1jgla7@corp.supernews.com>
	<XFm3f.10321$y_1.7586@edtnps89>
Message-ID: <11ktbum1ira9le4@corp.supernews.com>

>Hello? I don't think that should make any difference. I should be able
>to visit absolutely any website on the Internet without any danger to my
>computer or the data stored on it. Any browser which allows otherwise
>has a bug. 

Then Javascript *as a language* is a bug.

>Javascript is not inherently a virus vector. Flawed

A virus vector is not the only security problem.  Leaking
information to the web site is also a problem.

>implementations might be; the language itself is not. 

Does the language allow Javascript to open a new window?  Does the
language allow Javascript to trigger a function when a window is
closed?  I believe the answer to both questions is YES.  Then it
is possible to have a page that pops up two windows whenever you
close one.  This isn't theoretical:  I've seen someone demonstrate
this with certain nasty porn sites.  The only way to recover was
to kill off the browser and restart it.  (Clicking HOME apparently
fired off a cascade of closed windows which then opened more, running
the browser out of virtual memory.) Because of this, he lost work
in progress with another web site.  (Apparently he accidentally
clicked on a banner ad which lead to this booby-trapped site.)

>Similarly for
>anything else. In reality, with a properly-configured, good quality
>operating system (probably a UNIX-type system), one ought to be able to
>run full native code without any danger to one's computer or data
>(think: under the NOBODY account on Linux).

If it can reveal my email address to any web site, it's a bug.  If
it can access or alter my personal files or address book, it's a
bug.  If it can generate hits on web sites other than that specified
in the HTML, it's a bug.  If it can open sockets, it's a bug.
If it can look at or set cookies stored on my system, it's a bug.
If it can look at or alter the list of previously visited URLs, it's
a bug.

>> Browsers don't read unsolicited web sites.  Email readers do, however,
>> read unsolicited email, and email from downright hostile correspondents.  
>> And I consider "web bugs" and similar tracking methods to be a danger
>> for something that's supposed to be ONLY "formatted text".

						Gordon L. Burditt


From http  Tue Oct 11 19:29:28 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 16:29:28 -0700
Subject: Nicer way of strip and replace?
References: <7xpsqb6839.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dihgd9$ogj$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7xslv7d44n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Markus Rosenstihl <mrosenstihl at macnews.de> writes:
> indeed, it did it correctly by default:
> 
> read_file = csv.reader(open('2005_08_Rechnung_4963184011.dat', 'r'),
> delimiter="\t")
> for row in read_file:
> 	rechnung.append(row)

Oh cool.  I think you could even say:

   rechnung = list(read_file)

instead of the for loop.


From david at jotax.com  Sun Oct 16 05:24:03 2005
From: david at jotax.com (spinner)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 02:24:03 -0700
Subject: Queue question
In-Reply-To: <1129419092.954592.59630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129413036.271162.279880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129419092.954592.59630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129454643.819112.174860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ahh the penny has dropped at last.  I am using the WingIDE and
.not_empty is one of the properties it exposes with it's intellisense.
As such its use is not documented.  No problem.

Using the exception would more accurate - I can see that.  In my simple
case the queue is a one to one link, into and out of a single thread
and so I can use the .empty() call with impunity.  I can see that using
queue's may be overkill in this instance but it has been good practice
to get to know how they operate.

Being new to python I am just getting used to syntax and conventions,
your reply has clarrified the issue for me.

Thank you for posting Steve.



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Tue Oct 18 00:49:35 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:49:35 -0400
Subject: Mutual module imports
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-B5E898.23113017102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1129610975.644a87d1c52b5dc7f014412969a5ba17@teranews>

"Tony Nelson" <*firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com> wrote:

> [snipped]
>
> I have written a Python module that uses some C functions.  I wrote the
> module in two parts, one Python, one Pyrex (C).  They need to share some
> globals.
>

> [snipped]
>
> Now the Python module imports the Pyrex module and just shoves
> references to its globals into the Pyrex module (the Pyrex module
> defines them as None).  The Pyrex module doesn't import the Python
> module anymore.  This also works, even when the Python module has a
> different name (e.g. "__main__").  I just feel dirty about it.

Well, I feel dirty every time I have to share globals <wink>.

George




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Oct 17 16:05:30 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:05:30 -0700
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
In-Reply-To: <4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<mailman.2125.1129436361.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <BYmdnW_Ijr-XmcneRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:

> Thanks. Now, a slightly more complicated question.
> 
> Say I have two lists of floats. And I wish to generate a list of floats that
> is a user defined function of the two lists.

	result = [sqrt(x**2 + y**2) for x, y in zip(xs, ys)]

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Did you ever love somebody / Did you ever really care
   -- Cassandra Wilson


From matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca  Sat Oct 15 19:13:20 2005
From: matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca (Matt Garrish)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:13:20 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
> "Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>>
>>Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
>>If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be no
>>other software manufacturers at all.
>
> This is wrong.  The dictionary definition of a monopoly is when a
> manufacturer has all or nearly all of a market.  Microsoft DOES have a
> monopoly on PC operating systems.
>
> That, in itself, is not necessarily illegal.  However, Microsoft then USED
> that monopoly power to stifle their competition, and that IS illegal.
>
> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about browser
> wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion dollar a year
> market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
>

It may not be worth loads of money in-and-of itself now (don't forget 
Netscape wasn't always free, though), but if you control how people view the 
Internet you can make a lot of money in other ways, especially if you build 
your browser into your operating system and warp standards so that people 
who design sites take advantage of the proprietary features. Eventually the 
hope is that your OS and browser will become the only means of accessing the 
internet. And if your OS and browser are the only way to access the 
Internet, who in their right mind would use another system?

Matt 




From juho.schultz at helsinki.fi  Wed Oct  5 03:10:31 2005
From: juho.schultz at helsinki.fi (Juho Schultz)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:10:31 +0300
Subject: python plotting with greek symbols within labels recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128469278.622461.249550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhvu97$nhf$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

michael.s.gilbert at gmail.com wrote:
> hello all,
> 
> this message is geared toward those of you in the scientific community.
> i'm looking for a python plotting library that can support rendering
> greek symbols and other various characters on plot axes labels, etc. I
> would prefer something that adheres to tex formatting (as implemented
> in latex, matlab, etc and has the form $\alpha$ to represent the greek
> character alpha for example).
> 
> thus far, i've found that matplotlib
> (http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/) can do this, albeit the
> implementation is so poor that you cannot mix standard text with
> symbols on the same plot element.
> 
> 

If you already have installed matplotlib, have a look at
matplotlib-0.X.Y/examples/tex_demo.py
It shows you how to mix text and symbols.
The other examples in the directory could also be useful.

Essentially you need to remember 
matplotlib.rc('text', usetex=True)
before plotting.

If you need complex stuff (fractions, sums, integrals) try
putting an r before the string: pylab.ylabel(
r"Density $\left(\rho =\frac{x^2+\frac{x+1}{x-1}}{\kappa(x)K_{ij}}\right)")
works fine, at least on my system.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Oct 21 17:01:14 2005
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:01:14 -0700
Subject: How to add one month to datetime?
Message-ID: <A77618B80CDD2543B705C82B7665D9F902076DEB@ex9.hostedexchange.local>

John W wrote:
> I have been trying to figure out how to
> easily add just one month to a datetime
> object? ...I was wondering if there is
> simple way of doing this with built in
> datetime object?

If you want the same day in the succeeding month, you can try:

    newdate = datetime.date(olddate.year, olddate.month + 1,
olddate.day)

...but as you can see, that will run into problems quickly. See the
"sane_date" function here:
http://projects.amor.org/misc/browser/recur.py for a more robust
solution, where:

    newdate = recur.sane_date(olddate.year, olddate.month + 1,
olddate.day)

will roll over any values which are out-of-bounds for their container.


Robert Brewer
System Architect
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From kyle.tk at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 21:24:18 2005
From: kyle.tk at gmail.com (kyle.tk)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 18:24:18 -0800
Subject: putting a string in Mac Address form
Message-ID: <1130725458.938638.221840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I came up with this. Is there a better (more pythonic) way to do it?

import string
def mac_to_norm(mac):
	def bad_char(char):
		if char not in string.hexdigits:
			return False
		return True
	mac = filter(bad_char,mac)
	if len(mac) is not 12: return None
	new_mac = ''
	c = 0
	while len(new_mac) < 16:
		new_mac += mac[c:c+2] + ':'
		c=c+2
	return new_mac[:-1].upper()
print mac_to_norm('0012.ab23.b2cd')
#shows: 00:12:AB:23:B2:CD

The part I think is bad is the while loop part. Could it be better?



From jpstewart at binaryfoundry.ca  Tue Oct 25 11:29:14 2005
From: jpstewart at binaryfoundry.ca (John-Paul Stewart)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:29:14 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pjv133-pjn.ln1@mail.binaryfoundry.ca>

David Schwartz wrote:
> 
> If nobody wants 
> these operating systems, then it doesn't hurt him not to be able to sell 
> them. If people want them, then he could have shown Microsoft the door.

If only 5% want another operating system, the vendor has to choose 
between selling to those 5% -or- to the 95% who want Microsoft.  Had it 
not been for the underhanded tactics, he could have sold to *both* groups.

 From a purely economic standpoint, the sensible thing is to accept that 
95% and let the 5% go elsewhere.

But if *every* vendor has to make that same choice, there is no place 
for that other 5% to go to buy another operating system.  So the other 
operating system(s) die off.  And those 5% become customers of Microsoft 
since there's no other choice left.  And *that* is where the legal 
problems start:  they gained market share by preventing consumers from 
finding competing products.


From chris.lasher at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 22:44:46 2005
From: chris.lasher at gmail.com (Chris Lasher)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 19:44:46 -0700
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
Message-ID: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,
  Is there a Python-sensitive, Linux compatible IDE out there with
standard bells and whistles (source browser, symbolic debugger, etc.)
but with the action-per-keystroke editing capabilities of Vim? I have
failed to turn up such an IDE in my Googling and IDE project-page
browsing. :-(

Thanks very much in advance,
Chris



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 11:07:34 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:07:34 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:27:32 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> Yes I did. Did you read my post?
> 
> given that the wikipedia page says
> 
>     "a closure is an abstraction representing a function, plus the
>     lexical environment (see static scoping) in which the function
>     was created."
> 
> and you're still focussing on type(function), it sure looks as if you missed
> certain parts of that explanation.
> 
> let's take it again, with emphasis on some important words:
> 
>     "a closure is an ABSTRACTION representing a function, PLUS the
>     lexical ENVIRONMENT (see static scoping) in which the function
>     was created."
> 
>> If you create a closure, using a memoization technique as per the original
>> post, and then call type() on that closure, Python reports <type 'function'>.
> 
> that's because "closure" is an abstract concept.

So are functions, modules, classes, instances, ints and strings.

> there is no "closure" object
> in Python, just as there is no "program" object.

Clearly there is no DISTINCT closure object. If there were, I wouldn't
need to ask how one can tell them apart, because type() would just report
that one was a function and one was a closure. I don't have a problem with
that. But read on...

> function objects always con-
> tain all the information they need about their context, and the sum of that is
> what forms the closure.

If what you say is true, then all functions are closures, and closure is
just a synonym for function, and there is no difference between a function
and a closure. Then why bother to create the term? Clearly, whoever
invented the term did so to distinguish the two.

At a practical, Python level, there is a difference between a function
before and after it gets made into a closure using, e.g. the original
poster's memoization technique. In Python at least, it is not true that a
function and a function-turned-into-closure is the same thing.

See, for example, this:-

>>> def closefy(fn):
...     def do_nothing(*args, **kwargs):
...             return fn(*args, **kwargs)
...     return do_nothing
...
>>> def spam1():
...     return 0
...
>>> spam2 = closefy(spam1)
>>> spam1()
0
>>> spam2()
0
>>> spam2 is spam1
False
>>> spam1.func_closure is None
True
>>> spam2.func_closure
(<cell at 0xf70a2734: function object at 0xf6e0a144>,)
>>> hex(id(spam1))
'0xf6e0a144'

In one case, the "raw" function has None stored in its func_closure
attribute. In the other, it has a tuple containing at least one object of
type cell. That cell object appears to contain a reference back to the
original "raw" function.

Now, I'll tell you what I think is going on: spam1() obviously has lexical
scope, but that scope doesn't need to be saved with the function because
it is implicitly understood by Python.

The output of closefy(), on the other hand, has scope different from
the "normal" Python scope. So its output has to package up enough
information to re-create it's lexical scope in a cell object, and
that gets stored in the output's func_closure attribute.

So no, there is no "abstract" difference between a closure and a raw
function, but there is a practical difference. Now perhaps in some other
languages there is no practical difference either, but (as far as I can
see) Python is not that language.

Am I close? 

Here are another two code snippets that show something of what Python is
doing:-

>>> def thingo():
...     def shrubbery():
...             return 0
...     return shrubbery
...
>>> spam3 = thingo()
>>> spam3()
0
>>> spam3.func_closure is None
True

>>> def thingy():
...     n = 0
...     def shrubbery():
...             return n
...     return shrubbery
...
>>> spam4 = thingy()
>>> spam4.func_closure
(<cell at 0xf70a2b24: int object at 0x901a158>,)


-- 
Steven.



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Thu Oct 27 08:35:50 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:35:50 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:

>> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>>>                            Microsoft was not going to let a business
>>> parasitically use Windows to build a business that touted the
>>> advantages of competing products.

>> Well, it should have, because that's what manufacturers of operating
>> systems, washing machines, and so on, are supposed to do. And so says
>> the legal system. Attempting to subvert market economics like that is
>> illegal.

>     Actually, there are washing machines that are only available in 
> particular stores. I believe Kenmore washing machines, for example, are only 
> available wholesale as part of a franchise deal.

Good for them - I guess nobody else would want them (I certainly
wouldn't want something which hadn't been subjected to the test of a
competetive market)! 

In case you hadn't noticed, there are also JAMs and TINNED CUCUMBERs
which are only available in certain stores!  It's called an "own brand",
and they are normally cheaper than branded equivalents, not having paid
for the advertising or in some cases actually using cheaper and generic
products. 

That's UP TO THE FRIGGING STORE (in contrast to the MS situation).  The store
doesn't have to tell its supplier to make its product also availabel to
other stores (but it probably will, under a differnt label - all these
things come from the same canneries).  It's not forced on them sellerby
the manufacturer.  And attempts by manufacturers (notably sports shoe
brands) to dictate which shops may sell their brands (in order that they
may control the pricing) have been rebuffed by the courts as well.

> I don't know why you think 
> that's an attempt to subvert market economics,

Because "it is".

> it's actually just a normal 
> part of the way the market works.

No it isn't.

I think I'll just plonk you. Absurd and outlandish statements like
that put you beyond the pale. The law has spoken on the matter - the
courts have judged, and "that is illegal" and "that is a monopoly" 
and "that is an illegal  trade practice" are its judgments.




Peter


From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 13:41:03 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 10:41:03 -0700
Subject: installer for amd64 build of python?
In-Reply-To: <1129192705.632826.145210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129162224.131305.269060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434E1674.5010201@v.loewis.de>
	<1129192705.632826.145210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129225263.705977.181050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

As an aside to this, are there any freely available C compilers for
Windows that can compile 64-bit binaries?  I find nothing for Cygwin or
MinGW...



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Fri Oct 14 17:46:35 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:46:35 +0200
Subject: confusion between global names and instantiated object variable
	names
References: <1129322411.776202.314290@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4g4nw.1cfl5tn34bdetN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

wanwan <ericwan78 at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ...
> when I run my example, an error shows:
> "NameError: global name'menubar' is not defined"
> 
> I wonder why it doesn't work.  Isn't that the way to define an object
> variable?  

The code you posted should not trigger this error.  Most likely problem:
you have typed a comma where you meant to type a dot, for example
instead of self.menubar you wrote self,menubar somewhere -- it's a hard
error to spot with certain fonts.


Alex


From nephish at xit.net  Sun Oct 30 21:01:11 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 18:01:11 -0800
Subject: need  start point for getting html info from web
Message-ID: <1130724071.688187.59230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hey there,

i have a small app that i am going to need to get information from a
few tables on different websites. i have looked at urllib and httplib.
the sites i need to get data from mostly have this data in tables. So
that, i think would make it easier. Anyone suggest a good starting
point for me to find out how to do this, or know of a link to a good
how-to?
thanks,
sk



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Oct 12 19:49:57 2005
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy (Tim))
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:49:57 +1000
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
Message-ID: <2773CAC687FD5F4689F526998C7E4E5F4DB6D6@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Tom Anderson wrote:

> Except that in smalltalk, this isn't true: in ST, every variable
> *appears* to contain a reference to an object, but implementations
> may not actually work like that. In particular, SmallTalk 80 (and
> some earlier smalltalks, and all subsequent smalltalks, i think)
> handles small integers (those that fit in wordsize-1 bits)
> differently: all variables contain a word, whose bottom bit is a tag
> bit; if it's one, the word is a genuine reference, and if it's zero,
> the top bits of the word contain a signed integer.

This type of implementation has been discussed on python-dev. IIRC it
was decided by Guido that unless anyone wanted to implement it and show
a significant performance advantage without any regressions on any
platform, it wasn't worth it.

Basically, put up or shut up ;)

Tim Delaney


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 31 03:56:09 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 08:56:09 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndm3p71.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<FZq8f.214897$p_1.49124@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrndmbn19.1n4.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-28, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
>
> I haven't heard he was removing __cmp__,

I read somewhere he was considering it.

> but I would think the sort or 
> sorted functions would just use the available comparisons methods or 
> equivalent C code for base types.  So I expect it would only matter if 
> you need a custom or modified sort.
>
> Although It is a thought that these cases could be improved by making 
> the sort value available to the underlying C sort function.  Something 
> on the order of:
>
>      __sortvalue__ == self.value.

I doubt that will be possible in general. You can't even calculate such
a __sortvalue__ for lists.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From who2guess at xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 27 11:02:58 2005
From: who2guess at xs4all.nl (W.H.Offenbach)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:02:58 +0200
Subject: syntax question - if 1:print 'a';else:print 'b'
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510261507m2732e947p2be6fdae99a7c3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<djovm3$gvu$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<312cfe2b0510270757o51d3cfa7h2fccc775068b5549@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62e0012031f2fae1fb705a2d164556ce@xs4all.nl>

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
> So much for writing my whole program on one line :-(

Why bother with one liners?

"The number of meaningful lines and pages a writer produces is a 
measure for his writer-ship"
-- my old Literature professor



From uche.ogbuji at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 16:37:19 2005
From: uche.ogbuji at gmail.com (uche.ogbuji at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:37:19 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130491182.405885.49010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130491182.405885.49010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130531839.145106.287950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

"""
I was looking for something similar (XML to DTD inference) but I didn't
find anything related in python. Trang
(http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/trang-manual.html#introduction),
on the other hand seems impressive after a few non-trivial tests. It
would be neat to have it ported in python, at least the inference part.

"""

If you're OK with RELAX NG rather than DTD as the schema output
(probably a good idea if you're using namespaces), consider
Examplotron, which I've used on many such production tasks.

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-xmptron/

It's XSLT rather than Python, but the good news is that XSLT is easy to
invoke from Python using tools such as 4Suite.

http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/python-xslt

--
 Uche Ogbuji                               Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net                    http://fourthought.com
http://copia.ogbuji.net                   http://4Suite.org
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 12 07:36:12 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 11:36:12 GMT
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
Message-ID: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Comments are welcome:

  http://www.pardon-sleeuwaegen.be/antoon/avltree.html


From jeremy.d.brewer at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 19:55:49 2005
From: jeremy.d.brewer at gmail.com (jbrewer)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 16:55:49 -0700
Subject: Python cgi
In-Reply-To: <lud6f.879$h6.290515@news.siol.net>
References: <1129930246.435616.291660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<lud6f.879$h6.290515@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <1130025348.958342.212330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I added enctype="multipart/form-data"  to the <form> tag, and that
seemed to solve it.  Thanks.

Jeremy



From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 03:55:32 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 03:55:32 -0400
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<XbydnRySP_peD8XenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@speakeasy.net>
	<43589834$0$99986$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <kgjm23-aqa.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-21, Christian wrote:
> Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> Christian wrote:
>> 
>>> Can I write a .py script that calls a .sh script that executes the 
>>> export command and then calls another .py script (and how would the 
>>> first .py script look)?
>> 
>> No, the shell script that the Python program would invoke would be a 
>> different process and so commands executed in it would have no effect on 
>> the state of another.
>> 
>
> So executing an .sh script that calls a .py script works different when 
> executed from a command promt than when executed from a starter .py script?

    No; it's always the same: an environment variable will only be
    effective in the process in which it is set, and its children.

    When you call another program, whether it's a shell script, python
    script, or binary executable, you are starting a new process.
    Environment variables set in that process will not affect its
    parent (i.e., the process that called it).

-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 14 08:46:58 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:46:58 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com><mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org><1128888628.643764@yasure><p90jk1tspllkptk5q0jsag7gjo0fhb1aj9@4ax.com>
	<1128988055.798016.147970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dio9bo$qv7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Boddie wrote:

> On the subject of other virtual machine implementations, I wonder what
> happened to this one:
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/pytte.htm
>
> Fredrik? ;-)

so much code, so little time...

</F> 





From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 10:38:04 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 14:38:04 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> 
>> Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web
>> based, and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions
>> matter? It doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example,
>> OpenOffice. Yet people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one
>> reason is that people like to belong to a group. So even if it really
>> doesn't matter which OS you are going to use to access a web
>> application, or even which browser, people will pick a certain
>> browser, and a certain OS, just because. 
> 
>     You don't get it. The point is, you can pick any Linux
>     distribution and 
> still use the same applications. This is exactly what Microsoft
> *doesn't* want. They want applications to be locked to Microsoft OSes.
> For then to do this, applications have to be as tied to the OS as
> possible. The browser as a target platform threatened this Microsoft
> vision, so Microsoft reacted by trying to corner the browser market
> and balkanize Java.

And when are we going to see this browser as a target platform?

>     You can agree or disagree with the rationale and by sympathetic
>     with or 
> antagonistic to Microsoft's motive. But these are historical facts.

No: the historical fact is that MS whiped Netscape of the planet. That 
you come up with "They were afraid that everybody would be running NS 
Office online using Netscape" is just a guess. 

MS just seems to ignore a certain development for some time, then state 
it's not significant, and next they are an important player. This is not 
limited to "MS missed the Internet, almost...". They don't miss 
anything, they just don't jump on every hype.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Oct 11 13:49:22 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:49:22 +0200
Subject: Wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r2c91FhamghU1@uni-berlin.de>

> PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *, PyObject *args) {
                                  ^^^^^
I guess you need a parameter name here....


Diez


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 10:34:09 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:34:09 -0000
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, Christian <christian at spam.not> wrote:
>> 
>> The closest thing you can do is that:
>> 
>> -myScript.py--------------------------------------
>> print 'export MY_VARIABLE=value'
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> -myScript.sh--------------------------------------
>> python myScript.py > /tmp/chgvars.sh
>> . /tmp/chgvars.sh
>> --------------------------------------------------

Bullshit.  Are people being intentionally misleading??

> Can I write a .py script that calls a .sh script that executes the 
> export command and then calls another .py script (and how would the 
> first .py script look)?

Good grief, that's ugly.  Just use os.putenv().

> That would be much more what is my basic problem.

And even Google knows the correct answer

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=python+set+environment+variable

Follow the first hit.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  TONY RANDALL! Is YOUR
                                  at               life a PATIO of FUN??
                               visi.com            


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct 21 22:14:27 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:14:27 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <11lin723i0e3k80@corp.supernews.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<3nc*FXJ1q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
	<11lin723i0e3k80@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200510212114.27617.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 21 October 2005 04:25 pm, Ed Jensen wrote:
> Sion Arrowsmith <siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > I have here a library (it's the client side of a client-server
> > interface including a pile of class definitions) which has
> > implementations in pure C++, Java and Python, taking about 3000,
> > 3500 and 1500 loc respectively. And there's an associated module
> > (with no C++ implementation) that I remember being particular
> > "impressed" while writing it to find being 3 times as long in Java
> > as Python despite (a) extensive (and pretty much common) Javadoc/
> > docstrings and (b) implementing in the Python version a feature
> > present in the standard Java library (scheduling a thread to run
> > at specified intervals and time out). Strip the Javadoc/docstrings
> > out and it's about at that 5:1 ratio.
> 
> This claim seems pretty dubious to me.

Why?

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From rrr at ronadam.com  Tue Oct 25 12:57:07 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:57:07 GMT
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
In-Reply-To: <1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Dtt7f.168843$xl6.157765@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> unfortunately the result from py2exe won't run eventhough the original
> script runs without problems. The trouble is I'm at a loss as to where
> to start looking!
> 
> Martin.

Just a guess, Make sure any your file names aren't the same as any of 
the module names you are using.

Cheers,
    Ron



From nephish at xit.net  Thu Oct 20 12:54:41 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:54:41 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <Fq2dnc65T9RsWMreRVn-gQ@comcast.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Fq2dnc65T9RsWMreRVn-gQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1129827280.977047.269090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

i have thought about doing this, just a little different. i was going
to list the value pairs.
take the start time and end time and plot 100 empty plots between them.
add the value pairs, sort by time, and then draw it. The only thing is
it get kinda complicated when the times change a lot. they could span
an hour, a month, anything in between.

i like your idea, i will check various packages for how to plot 'none'

thanks
sk.



From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Mon Oct  3 21:01:03 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:01:03 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1128387663.3101.12.camel@blackwidow>


>   egold = 0:
>   while egold < 10:
>     if test():
>       ego1d = egold + 1
> 

Both pylint and pychecker pick this up.  I wrapped the code in a
function (to prevent importing from running in an infinite loop) and ran
both pylint and pychecker:

plyint: W:  5:myfunc: Unused variable 'ego1d'
pychecker: test.py:4: Local variable (ego1d) not used


I make a habit to run pylint or pychecker on my code often.  They pick
up a lot of stuff like unused variables, etc.

But you can also do this:

/* initialize variables i'm gonna use */
int vara = 0; 
int varb = 0;
while (vara < 10) {
    varb = vara + 1;
}

So we can make a similar mistake in C if you type the wrong (declared)
variable name.  Moreover, "gcc -Wall" did not report the "unused"
variable so it might be even more difficult to track down the problem. 




From tokidokix at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 22:03:17 2005
From: tokidokix at gmail.com (toki doki)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:03:17 +0200
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
Message-ID: <e3413670510181903h581efd23w5ad5242f3ff1cc24@mail.gmail.com>

Hello there,

I have been programming python for a little while, now. But as I am
beginning to do more complex stuff, I am running into small organization
problems.
It is possible that what I want to obtain is not possible, but I would
appreciate the advice of more experienced python programmers.

I am writing a relatively complex program in python that has now around 40
files.
At first, I had all of my files in one single directory, but now, with the
increasing number of files, it is becoming hard to browse my directory.
So, I would want to be able to divide the files between 8 directory,
according to their purpose. The problem is that it breaks the 'import's
between my files. And besides,AFAIK, there is no easy way to import a file
that is not in a subdirectory of the current file (I suppose I could adjust
the os.path in every file, but that seems not very elegant to me).
I thought about turning the whole into a package. But I have to change every
'import module_name' into
'from package_name.sub_directory_name import module_name'
which is a little bit time consuming and not very flexible (if I change my
mind about the subdirectory a file belongs to, I will have to track again
every import to correct them)

So, basically, here is the point: is there an 'elegant' way to keep my files
in separate directory and still be able to import between them with simple
'import filename'?

And if not, what would be the standard way to organize numerous python files
belonging to the same project?

Thanks a lot for any advice,

TokiDoki
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From dcrespo at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 08:41:32 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 05:41:32 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2092.1129326985.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2092.1129326985.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129380092.861750.229290@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your answer, but I think that created thread in python
should create a thread either on windows and linux.

Can you give me Python example of how to do what I want to do? Thanks



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 08:04:06 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:04:06 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com><mailman.1781.1128838838.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Lb-dnVf65sXCndTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <dib0vp$eap$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> <snip>
> >     "Unlike mainstream component programming, scripts usually
> >     do not introduce new components but simply "wire" existing
> >     ones. Scripts can be seen as introducing behavior but no
> >     new state. /.../ Of course, there is nothing to stop a
> >     "scripting" language from introducing persistent state -- it
> >     then simply turns into a normal programming language."
> >
> >         -- Clemens Szyperski, in "Component Software":
> <snip>
>
> That description seems to describe whatever is written more than
> whatever it is written in, or in other words, it describes the
> difference between a script and a program, not between a scripting
> language and a programming language.

well, yes and no.  it basically implies that if a language doesn't have
the internal mechanisms required to implement persistent storage on
its own, it's a scripting language.  examples are shell languages, the
Windows BAT language, javascript running in certain environments,
and the myriad of application-specific "command languages" that were
popular in the "old days".

> Nowadays a lot of the scripting languages have turned programming
> languages so I think the difference is small.

I think the trend is that when people are faced with a "scripting problem"
(e.g. when they need "command languages" or other kinds of basic pro-
grammability), it's no longer fashionable to invent yet another language.
integrating an existing runtime is a lot easier.

Tcl is an early example of a something that started as a "reusable
command language" and turned into a "real programming language"
along the way:

    http://www.tcl.tk/advocacy/tclHistory.html

</F>





From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 22:46:14 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:46:14 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2A9E6FFF60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.17.23.16.45.433200@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2D66F0FE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<3rjvdaFk0l1sU1@individual.net>
	<Xns96F384B9DEF47castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <ijcbl1dfpdh99le2qisouecsm8j75vtlqc@4ax.com>

On 18 Oct 2005 18:02:53 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>If you think you can direct the development of human behaviour by not 
>buying a Microsoft product, be my guest.

Refusing to take any action against them is also immoral.  I think you
are morally obligated to take some reasonable action to counter
Microsoft, effective in and of itself or not.

Your counsel is similar to those who tell people it is futile to vote.

?All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing.? 
~ Edmund Burke

I had an experience that changed my completely on that sort of  issue.
I started gay lib in my part of the world purely as a "futile moral
gesture". Within 2 years to my utter amazement, we had the gay rights
legislation.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  1 05:21:46 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:21:46 +0100
Subject: Google Not Universal Panacea [was: Re: Where to find python 
	c-sources]
In-Reply-To: <gLWdncdOH91dOKDeRVn-2Q@speakeasy.net>
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no>	<Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>	<dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>	<mailman.1261.1128086363.509.python-list@python.org>
	<gLWdncdOH91dOKDeRVn-2Q@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <dhlkf6$6h1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>While a snappish "go and look it up on Google" might suffice for a 
>>mouthy apprentice who's just asked their thirteenth question in the last 
>>half hour, it's (shall we say) a little on the brusque side for someone 
>>who only appears on the group last February, and has a history of asking 
>>reasonably pertinent though sometimes beginner-level questions.
> 
> 
> I told him exactly where it was.  I just also pointed out that he could 
> have trivially found out the answer on his own by using Google for 
> fifteen seconds.  It would be one thing if I (and nobody else) answered 
> his question and just rudely pointed him to Google.  But since I 
> actually answered his question, looks to me like someone just wanted to 
> stand on his soapbox today.
> 
I don't think "The source tarball on python.org" could claim to be 
telling him "exactly where it was" given that my copy of the web site 
has 341 MB of stuff in it.

Just that same, if you are saying that your behaviour didn't really 
merit my response then I'd probably agree. Your post was the straw that 
broke the camel's back rather than an egregious example of bad manners. 
So I'm sorry if it looked as though the soapboxing was directed 
primarily at you, which it wasn't.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From ms at cerenity.org  Mon Oct  3 14:38:11 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:38:11 +0100
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <dhk1jj$7ri$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<434087a4$0$49795$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<43412b45$0$21220$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <43417a66$0$49809$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

Christophe wrote:

> Michael a ?crit :
>> Rocco Moretti wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>That is, what would happen with the following constructs:
>>>
>>>A if B else C if D else F
>>>A if B if C else D else F
>> 
>> 
>> The correct answer should be the person who wrote it would get told off
>> for writing code that a person reading would have no idea what the code
>> was doing (without understanding the precedence).
>> 
>> Whilst it's good to have clear understandable, well defined rules for
>> these things, that's no excuse for having unreadable code that other
>> people can't read and understand without having to remember obscure
>> rules.
>> 
>> Personally, I'd hope that any code-linting tools would flag such
>> expressions as potentially bad because they're not clear. (Whereas
>> bracketed expressions instantly help here).
> 
> Actually, you don't need to know operator precedence here because the
> notation isn't ambiguous in those 2 examples. Of course, it takes some
> time to understand the thing but it has more to do with the excessive
> amount of "logic" in one line than with the syntax.

I noted that. However it *does* slow people down which increases the chances
of misconception (which is why I'd be in favour of bracketing these
expressions).


Michael.



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 18:00:32 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:00:32 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
> news:lgs133-7ub.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>>>     Yes, it certainly is. However, it is also Microsoft's right as a 
>>> seller
>>> to refuse discounts to those who also sell competing products. You may 
>>> not

>> No it is not their "right"! That would be a discriminatory practice,
>> not to mention an anti-competitive practice. Totally.

>     Businesses have the right to be discriminatory and anti-competitive in 
> this way.

No they don't. I'm simply open-jawed at such a statement.

> McDonald's won't sell a Burger King their burger patties. 

McDonald's are not in the business of wholesale distribution of burger
patties so your statement is simply sited in the wrong universe of
discourse.  Coming back to the current universe of discourse, I assure
you that a McDonald's director can go into a Burger King and buy a
burger like anyone else, so no discrimination.  Mind you - I'm not sure
if they'd let Ronald in.  He's obviously dangerously nutty.

> his is 
> both discriminatory and anti-competitive,

It's neither. It's simply not part of their business.

> but also perfectly legal, moral, 
> and proper.

Dalse assumptions, hence invalid conclusions.

>     You only run into a problem under United States law if the company is a 
> monopoly. And I've already addressed that issue in this thread.

If MacDonalds were wholesale suppliers of hamburgers to the
distribution trade, then they couldn't discriminate among their
customers for the purposes of altering the competitive nature of the
market in hamburger sales to you and me across the counter.  Companies
have been sued for trying that - sports shoe manufacturers, I seem to
recall.  They've tried to make sure their shoes are sold only by
specified outlets at specified prices, in order to artificially manage
the market.  That's illegal.  Sued they got (or perhaps "suede").


Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 17:35:45 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:35:45 +0200
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <11k5pgpp19v0ec@corp.supernews.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041716530.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <dhusjd$pvh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mohammed Smadi wrote:

> what else would you do?  I am using examples from the web and they all
> bind to a port at the localhost before connecting to the remote host.

pointers, please.

> my code is like this
>
> #transmission socket
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,  socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> s.bind(("",hp_port)) # do some error checking

that's a typical server setup.

> data="HI"
> print data
> s.connect(('192.168.2.13',port))
> s.send(data)

and this is typical client setup.

are you sure you're not cutting and pasting code from different examples?

> any suggestions for alternative implementation?

if you're writing a client, get rid of the setsockopt and bind stuff.

</F> 





From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 18 13:59:10 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 17:59:10 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<2u59l1555jubv8qv09q57qh8m4skei9dqi@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F313F71494Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<3tc9l11oejnq3i2hnrld7akujouk3771tv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F38418ADF38castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 18 Oct 2005 06:57:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>>>That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML
>>>>recommendation by w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things,
>>>>and mixing them up by calling both standards is a bad thing.
>>> 
>>> Because ... what are the consequences?
>>
>>If you mean if you are put in jail for 20 years, and tortured, none.
> 
> No. ANY consequences.  You have not explained the downside.

ISO HTML and HTML 4.01 differ. If you were asked to write a validating 
parser for the HTML standard, (as in ISO), and you wrote one for HTML 4.01 
(as in recommendation), you made quite a mistake.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 20 18:15:27 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:15:27 +0200
Subject: KeyboardInterrupt vs extension written in C
In-Reply-To: <1129814875.226834.10260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129814875.226834.10260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rqj7vFhstbuU1@uni-berlin.de>

Tamas Nepusz wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have tried to do some googling before asking my question here, but I
> haven't found any suitable answer. I am developing a Python API for a
> graph library written in pure C. The library is doing an awful lot of
> math computations, and some of them can take a pretty long time
> (depending on the size of the input). If I invoke such calculation from
> Python using my own extension, the interpreter locks until the
> calculation is complete (I mean, it is not responding to Ctrl-C or
> SIGINT).
> 
> My question is: is there any way to allow the user to use Ctrl-C to
> generate a KeyboardInterrupt and cancel such large computations? I'm
> assuming that although pressing Ctrl-C may generate a KeyboardInterrupt
> in Python, it is not propagated to the user level until the call into
> the graph library returns. I tried to add Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS before
> the call to the underlying C library and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS after
> returning from it, but I had no luck.

I'm not especially an expert with C-extensions. So I'm not sure if I can 
be of any help here. But if what you really are after is "only" 
terminating the whole program (instead of just the computation, and then 
continue), you might consider threads. Do the calls in a separate 
thread, and make that a daemon-thread. Then things _should_ work as 
expected, as the main thread will receive the signal. Hopefully... if 
your call releases the GIL. Which Py_*_ALLOW_THREADS seems to do. So - 
give it a try :)

Diez


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 01:05:34 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:05:34 -0700
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <4349AE08.1000306@open-networks.net>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>	<mailman.1807.1128900330.509.python-list@python.org>	<rTh2f.12332$U51.276@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<4349AE08.1000306@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <dicsr2$q26$1@sea.gmane.org>

Timothy Smith wrote:

> it is definately a bug in 2.3 when using the decimal module. i can 
> reproduce it.
> 
> from decimal import Decimal
> a = Decimal('0'
> 
> and when you attempt to run it you will get "error"
> 
> of course i do understand that decimal wasn't part of 2.3, but atleast 
> now when if anyone gets that terse message they know where to start 
> looking :)

[~]$ cat foo.py
from decimal import Decimal
a = Decimal('0'

[~]$ python2.3 foo.py
  File "foo.py", line 4

    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From klaus at seistrup.dk  Wed Oct  5 16:14:04 2005
From: klaus at seistrup.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:14:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Replacing utf-8 characters
References: <1128522921.72009@nntp.acecape.com>
Message-ID: <slrndk8d0c.ael.klaus@main.szn.dk>

Mike wrote:

> Hi, I am using Python to scrape web pages and I do not have problem 
> unless I run into a site that is utf-8.  It seems & is changed to 
> &amp; when the site is utf-8.
>
> 	[...]

> Any ideas?

How about using the universal feedparser from feedparser.org to fetch 
and parse the RSS from Reuters?  That's what I do and it works like a 
charm.

#v+

>>> import feedparser
>>> rss = feedparser.parse('http://today.reuters.com/rss/topNews')
>>> for what in ('link', 'title', 'summary'):
...     print rss.entries[0][what]
...     print
...
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-10-05T193846Z_01_DIT561620_RTRUKOC_0_US-COURT-SUICIDE.xml

Top court seems closely divided on suicide law

During arguments, the justices sharply questioned both sides on whether then-Attorney General John Ashcroft had the power under federal law in 2001 to bar distribution of controlled drugs to assist suicides, regardless of state law.
>>> 

#v-

Cheers,

-- 
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
Magnetic Ink, Copenhagen, Denmark
http://magnetic-ink.dk/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 14:40:54 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:40:54 +0200
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<mailman.2125.1129436361.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<BYmdnW_Ijr-XmcneRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net>
	<43540cc0$0$41147$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <1h4napk.yissq44hzbpiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Madhusudan Singh <spammers-go-here at spam.invalid> wrote:
   ...
> >> Say I have two lists of floats. And I wish to generate a list of floats
> >> that is a user defined function of the two lists.
> > 
> > result = [sqrt(x**2 + y**2) for x, y in zip(xs, ys)]
> 
> Works perfectly. Thanks !

If zip works and map doesn't, most likely your problem is that the two
lists have different lengths.  In this case, zip truncates to the
shorter list, while map conceptually extends the shorter list with
copies of None -- causing an error when you try to do arithmetic between
a float towards the end of the longer list, and None...!


Alex


From nochiel at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 15:55:15 2005
From: nochiel at gmail.com (yoda)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 12:55:15 -0700
Subject: py.log using decorators for DRY
In-Reply-To: <1h56wng.106v8tn1lk8f2rN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1130606608.107621.138650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1h56wng.106v8tn1lk8f2rN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130615715.178228.238640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I feel so stupid... lol... now why didn't I think of that?

Thanks Alex.



From tim at tt1lock.org  Fri Oct 14 04:00:24 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:00:24 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <IoCBKo.9xx@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
> Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:
> > In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:

> >> The technial problems have been solved for over a decade. NeXT shipped
> >> systems that used text/richtext, which has none of the problems that
> >> HTML has.  The problems are *social* - you've got to arrange for
> >> people to use mail/news readers that understand a rich text format
> >> that isn't a vector for viruses.
> >
> > It's not HTML that has problems, it's Microsoft's crappy software.
> 
> HTML is a problem on *other* peoples crappy software as well. It
> wasn't designed to carry code content, but has been hacked up to do
> that.

Are there any examples of HTML email causing security problems - outside
of Microsoft's software?

I can think of one: the JPEG virus.  However, that affected practically
any program that could render JPEGs - not just HTML.

> > Writing virus-free HTML renderers is not hard - but of course
> > Microsoft can still screw it up.
> 
> Sure - just disable all the features that make people want to use HTML
> instead of something else.

Not so: you disable Java, Javascript and plugins.  You leave the ability 
to format, colour and hint documents.  This is not /that/ difficult.

> > Don't blame HTML for viruses - *every* document format Microsoft has
> > anything to do with becomes a vector for viruses.
> 
> Which would mean that every open format that MS has had anything to do
> with comes a vector for viruses. Somehow, I'm not buying it.

I exaggerate only slightly.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From alex at moreati.org.uk  Fri Oct  7 08:30:13 2005
From: alex at moreati.org.uk (Alex Willmer)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:30:13 GMT
Subject: CSV like file format featured recently in Daily Python URL?
Message-ID: <1128688213.7906.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I'm trying to track down the name of a file format and python module,
that was featured in the Daily Python URL some time in the last month or
two.

The format was ASCII with a multiline header defining types for the
comma seperated column data below. It may have had the capability to
store multiple tables in one file. There was news on the homepage that
an alternate 'no data here' syntax was also supported.

An example file had vaguely this structure:

columnname as datatype
columnname as datatype
columnname as datatype
columnname as datatype

data,data,data,data
data,"other data",data,data
data,data,"",data

Can anyone remember this file format/python module?

With thanks

Alex



From http  Fri Oct  7 10:25:14 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 07:25:14 -0700
Subject: Can't extend function type
References: <7xoe61g4p7.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128693651.822764.321010@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x7jcptned.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at gmail.com> writes:
> If you google a bit on the newsgroup, you should find a message
> from me asking about the ability to subclass FunctionType, and
> a reply from Tim Peters saying that the only reason why this
> was not done is lack of developer time and the fact that this was
> not considered an important priority.

Yeah, I just thought of it as a perverse but sort of cute way to
implement composition and similar operations on functions.  It could
be handy though, and simple to implement, if functions supported the
'*' operator for composition.  The example with a callable class is
a possible workaround, but ugly.


From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 07:08:56 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 04:08:56 -0700
Subject: generic xmerge ?
In-Reply-To: <1h4kurr.y4wcn71rpq7x6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1129545131.875544.122630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kurr.y4wcn71rpq7x6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1129547336.228373.10140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

oops, sorry. I meant

l1=[(date,v1,v2,v3), ...]
l2=[ another set of tuples ]


Thanks. so I have to concat the multiple lists first(all of them are
sorted already) ?

Alex Martelli wrote:
> I'm not sure what "my list is a tuple" mean (list and tuple being
> different types) nor what this has to do with the recipe.  Anyway...
> sequences are compared lexicographically -- first items first, then
> second items if the first items are equal, and so on.  So, if you have a
> list X whose items tuples and want X sorted on the tuples' first items,
> X.sort() will suffice -- if the tuples never have equal first-items, or
> if you're OK with second-items getting compared when the first-items are
> equal.  If you want to sort on first-items ONLY, leaving the tuples in
> the same order in the list when their first-items are equal:
> 
> import operator
> X.sort(key=operator.itemgetter(0))
> 
> 
> Alex



From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  7 20:28:52 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 00:28:52 -0000
Subject: Simulating low bandwidth network on localhost
References: <1128728893.814798.44050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11ke4m4j04uau26@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, qvx <qvx3000 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to test my CherryPy application in varying
> network conditions, ranging from localhost full speed to low
> badwidth (ie. 14.4kbps) and variable latency from milliseconds
> range to seconds range.

If you've got a machine with two serial ports, you can connect
them with a null-modem cable and set up a PPP connection
between the two.  You can set the baud rate as low as you want.
There isn't any way to control latency, though.

> How can I simulate this? Are there some tricks to be played
> with Python or is there a specialized software for this kind
> of things (preferably free).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Let's send the
                                  at               Russians defective
                               visi.com            lifestyle accessories!


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 12:22:44 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 18:22:44 +0200
Subject: os.access with wildcards
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1701.1128699868.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128701207.675536.126370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di67cn$hgu$1@sea.gmane.org>

"mike" wrote:

> dude, you are the sap that wrote "it's not clear".

followed by three possible solutions to the stated problem, one
of which was marked as "most likely".

> get a life.

oh, sorry for wasting my time.  can I *plonk* you now?

</F>





From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 08:21:32 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 05:21:32 -0700
Subject: path
Message-ID: <1d987df30510190521o4c68b249j2f9c721e0167f89f@mail.gmail.com>

I have installed Python 2.3 and I type "help()" and then "Keywords".
I get a list of words. And it says that I can enter any of the words
to get more help.  I enter
"and" and I get the following error message:
"Sorry, topic and keyword documentation is not available because the Python
HTML documentation files could not be found.  If you have installed them,
please set the environment variable PYTHONDOCS to indicate their location."

but I have set both the environment variable, with the path to be
C:\Python23\Doc which includes python23.chm
Why I still got the above error message?


From mtammerman at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 17:58:36 2005
From: mtammerman at gmail.com (Mike Tammerman)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 14:58:36 -0700
Subject: Excel library with unicode support
Message-ID: <1128463115.969232.146590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I want to create an Excel file, but I don't to use com or any win32
object. Because, the file should be opened via OpenOffice. I found
pyXLWriter, but it doesn't support unicode or non-ascii characters. Is
there a python library, that is able to create Excel files with unicode
characters.

I think, pyXLWriter is a stopped project.

Thanks,
Mike



From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Thu Oct 20 09:17:14 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:17:14 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>
	<dj56ba$2oe$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<d8uel1ldn28q45ka1mrb2ep26cvmmuv6pq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uNM5f.153113$RW.59193@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:15:03 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :
 
>>    Did I say their obligation was to secure their shareholders as much 
>>profit as possible? I said their obligation was to their shareholders.
 
> You are literally saying people work for a company have an obligation
> to the shareholders. That is too obvious to be bothered with
> announcing. The employees take the shareholder's money, so obviously
> they have an obligation to produce something in return.  When I read
> your words, I think you really mean this is the prime or sole
> obligation of an employee.  I disagree with that. There are many
> loyalties that compete.

Employees have *no* obligations towards the shareholders of a company.
They are not employed or paid by the shareholders, they are employed
by the company itself which is a separate legal entity.

It is a different matter for the board of directors of a company.

Axel
 


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 24 08:04:34 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 12:04:34 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-24, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> 
>>>>>set([1]) <=  set([2])
>> 
>> False
>> 
>>>>>set([2]) <= set([1])
>> 
>> False
>> 
> Set orderingd are explicitly documented as being based on proper 
> subsetting. This is an abuse of the operators to make subset tests more 
> convenient rather than a definition of an ordering.

It *is* a definition of an ordering.

For something to be an ordering it has to be anti symmetric and transitive.

The subset relationships on sets conform to these conditions so it is a (partial)
ordering. Check your mathematic books, Why you would think this is abuse is beyond me.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From bosteen at maysubdivide.org  Mon Oct 31 05:01:55 2005
From: bosteen at maysubdivide.org (Ben O'Steen)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:01:55 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: Why the nonsense number appears?
In-Reply-To: <slrndmbpc3.7jg.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
References: <1130749726.707175.293040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndmbpc3.7jg.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <17750.213.235.52.66.1130752915.squirrel@www.maysubdivide.org>

On Mon, October 31, 2005 9:39, Sybren Stuvel said:
> Johnny Lee enlightened us with:
>> Why are there so many nonsense tails? thanks for your help.
>
> Because if the same reason you can't write 1/3 in decimal:
>
> http://docs.python.org/tut/node16.html
>
> Sybren
> --
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
>                                              Frank Zappa
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


I think that the previous poster was asking something different. I think
he was asking something like this:

If

>>> t1 = 0.500
>>> t2 = 0.461
>>> print t1-t2
0.039

Then why:

>>> t1 += 12345678910
>>> t2 += 12345678910
>>> # Note, both t1 and t2 have been incremented by the same amount.
>>> print t1-t2
0.0389995574951

It appears Yu-Xi Lim beat me to the punch. Using decimal as opposed to
float sorts out this error as floats are not built to handle the size of
number used here.

Ben



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Thu Oct  6 10:07:09 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:07:09 -0700
Subject: New Python book
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1576.1128556539.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051005150954.0741e1d0@rcblue.com>
	<mailman.1576.1128556539.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43452f51$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jeremy Jones wrote (about Magnus Lie Hetland's
     _Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional_):
> ...  this would probably also be an excellent educational resource 
> for teachers in a classroom setting teaching students Python.  I would 
> be interested to hear some teachers' opinion on that to see if 
> that's a correct assessment....

You could ask over on comp.lang.python.education (on
Gmane as comp.python.education).

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From saruis at tiscali.it  Sun Oct 30 15:47:24 2005
From: saruis at tiscali.it (DDany)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 12:47:24 -0800
Subject: Problem with py2exe
Message-ID: <1130705244.768027.147710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

HI!
I've a problem with py2exe: well, first of all I say that I use python
2.4.1 , py2exe 0.6.3 and distutils 1.0.2 on winxp.
To use py2exe I wrote a file setup.py like this:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
setup(
    version = "0.1",
    description = "Py2Exe Script",
    name = "App.exe",
    windows = ["C:\app\\app.py"],
    )

file that is launched in this way:
D:\programs\python24\python.exe setup.py py2exe

The command starts and at the beginning seems that all goes on with no
problem, but at a certain point there's an error:

copying D:\programs\python24\MSVCR71.dll -> D:\Applicazione\dist
error: could not delete 'C:\app\dist\MSVCR71.dll': Permission denied

However folders build and dist are created: in particular into the
folder dist i have the w9xpopen.exe file, some *.pyd files and some
dll's... among dll's I have the MSVCR71.dll too.
I don't understand what's the problem so I ask you a help!!!
See ya, bye!



From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 16:06:28 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 13:06:28 -0700
Subject: Inheritance...
Message-ID: <1129320388.162897.257710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I have a base class

class geometry(object):
   def __init__(self):
      self.blue = 1
      self.red = 2
   def render(self):
      pass

class square(geometry):
    def __init__(self):
         super(square, self).__init__()
   def render(self)
      print 'square'

class circle(geometry):
    def __init__(self):
         super(square, self).__init__()
   def render(self)
      print 'square'

objLst = []
objLst.append(square())
objLst.append(circle())

for obj in objLst:
   obj.render()
print obj.blue

What is wrong with this... I will not print blue... (1)



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 11:21:29 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:21:29 -0700
Subject: process and spinning slash
References: <1130690731.654048.157590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h58mez.1jo7cnd1lilqm2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2710.1130692550.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h58n6p.o0v4sq13jwgztN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Have the spin function accept the pid argument and exit the loop if said
> > pid has terminated; to check the latter, e.g., os.kill(pid, 0) -- this
> > will raise an OSError if no process with that pid exists, so you can use
> > a try/except OSError: to catch that and break as appropriate.
> 
> or use the subprocess module instead of fork/exec, pass the Popen instance
> to spin, and use the poll() method to check if the process is still running.

Much more elegant than the lower-level approach I was sketching, of
course, if one can use Python 2.4 (one cannot always sensibly do that;
e.g., Mac OS X Tiger [the latest release] includes Python 2.3.5, so if
you want to write Mac applications in Python 2.3 packaging and
distributing them is trivial, but if you want to use Python 2.4 you need
to distribute that as well, or package it with your app and thus make it
way bigger... so, limiting oneself to 2.3 is a reasonable choice here).


Alex


From ganzhi at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 21:39:48 2005
From: ganzhi at gmail.com (James Gan)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:39:48 +0800
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<m3mzl87am5.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.16.41.654136@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dj4858$2t0$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

Hi, Steven

:) width parameter do the magic :

 >>> pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2,[3,4]],5], width=1,indent=4)
[   1,
     2,
     3,
     4,
     [   0,
         1,
         2,
         [   3,
             4]],
     5]
 >>>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:31:46 +0200, enrico.sirola_NOSPAM wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>>>>"James" == James Gan <ganzhi at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>    James> I want the object printed in a readable format. For
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>    James> I tried pickled, marshel. They do different work. Is there
>>    James> another module which do this kind of job?
>>
>>from pprint import pprint
>>pprint(object)
> 
> 
> I don't think that even comes *close* to what James wants.
> 
> py> import pprint
> py> pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2], 5])
> [1, 2, 3, 4, [0, 1, 2], 5]
> 
> 


From http  Mon Oct  3 07:47:26 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 04:47:26 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xxbgj4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4340dfd2.3069694347@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <7x64sex1o1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
> Would you want to outlaw 'None' as an attribute name?
> Python seems to be straddling the fence at this point:
>  >>> c.None = 'c.None'
>  SyntaxError: assignment to None

Heehee, I think that's just a compiler artifact, the lexer is treating
None as a keyword instead of a normal lexical symbol that the compiler
treats separately.  That's also why it raises SyntaxError instead of
some other type of error.  Yes, None should be ok as an attribute name.

> I could see it as part of a debugging interface that might let you
> mess more with frames in general. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot
> of the under-the-hood access we enjoy as it is was a byproduct of
> scratching debugging-tool-need itches.

Such an interface should probably work like the Java one, i.e. it would
have a special socket listener that you'd poke at the program through,
not have debugging code running in the same interpreter space as the
target app.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 16:39:46 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:39:46 +0200
Subject: Lambda evaluation
References: <1128629895.5816.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <di422l$c35$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joshua Ginsberg wrote:

> So this part makes total sense to me:
>
> >>> d = {}
> >>> for x in [1,2,3]:
> ...     d[x] = lambda y: y*x
> ...
> >>> d[1](3)
> 9
>
> Because x in the lambda definition isn't evaluated until the lambda is
> executed, at which point x is 3.
>
> Is there a way to specifically hard code into that lambda definition the
> contemporary value of an external variable? In other words, is there a
> way to rewrite the line "d[x] = lambda y: y*x" so that it is always the
> case that d[1](3) = 3?

from earlier today:

    http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/424262

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 25 07:03:52 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:52 +0100
Subject: pickle
In-Reply-To: <1d987df30510250023u5d679c9co4cd6f960df6edf1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2505.1130223334.509.python-list@python.org>	<1130223861.28336.6.camel@blackwidow>
	<1d987df30510250023u5d679c9co4cd6f960df6edf1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djl3ep$rp0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Shi Mu wrote:
> what does the following code mean?
> 
> y = pickle.load(file("cnumber.pickle", "r"))
> 
Take it by parts:

     file("cnumber.pickle", "r")

returns a file object as a result of opening the "cnumber.pickle" file, 
which is presumably a pickle someone wrote earlier.

So

     pickle.load(file("cnumber.pickle", "r"))

returns the first object stored in that pickle file.


> also, I can not understand "f" in pickle.dump(x, f)
> 
The beginning of the docs on pickle usage says:

"""dump( obj, file[, protocol[, bin]])

Write a pickled representation of obj to the open file object file."""

Isn't this reasopnably self-explanatory?

regards
  Steve

>[...]

-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct  8 19:09:34 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 19:09:34 -0400
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128812979.64e46e0be2c6fb7fe6fdb8dd3dab1e09@teranews>

"Alex" <lidenalex at yahoo.se> wrote:

> My native language is not English so I just wonder how you pronounce
> wxPython.
>
> vi-ex python
> double-you-ex python
> wax-python
>
> or something else
>
> Thanks

I am sure it is pronounced the same way as wxWidgets <wink>.

George




From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Mon Oct 17 11:30:32 2005
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 08:30:32 -0700
Subject: can a cut-down Python still be Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129548481.197637.122710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129531249.605353.204280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129548481.197637.122710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129563032.227240.106670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

No, but the BFDL has the corner on the Zen of Python.  What he says,
evidently goes.



From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Fri Oct 14 10:45:05 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 07:45:05 -0700
Subject: How to delete yourself????
References: <1129299904.130287.287680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129301105.048023.36430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


christian.siegl at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> I got a problem deleting objects, which are placed in a hirarchy....
>
> Asume we have the following code:
> ########################################################
> class parent:
>
>     MyChilds = [] # this list is filled with childs....
>
>     def AddChild(self, child):
>         # add childs here, however this is done, it's not the point...
>         child.MyParent = self
>
>     def RemoveChild(self, child):
>         # delete child from the list.... the way this is done is not
> our
>         # problem here
>
>
> class child:
>
>     MyParent = 0
>
>     def deleteMe(self):
>         MyParent.RemoveChild(self)
> ##############################################################

Please help me understand the child class. It does not make much sense
to me at all.

Why is it not sufficient to call child.parent.remove(child) if the
caller holds a child object but not the parent? Otherwise it should be
sufficient to call parent.remove(child). 

Kay



From erniedude at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 11:01:32 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 08:01:32 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks.  Can anyone provide an example of using *subprocess* to run
helloWorld.C through the python interpreter.



From nephish at xit.net  Thu Oct 20 12:22:59 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:22:59 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

how ?
i have tried to use unix timestamps, and i have also tried with
DateTime objects
do i need to use a scale that isn't linear (default in most) ?
how do i putt this off ?

thanks btw.
sk



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 05:12:55 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:12:55 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:47:27 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

> 
> "Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
> news:pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> 
>> That's basic economics. Something which can be allowed or ignored or even
>> encouraged when done by small businesses in a competitive market can
>> easily become harmful and bad for the economy when done by a monopolist or
>> duopolist in an uncompetitive market.
> 
>     Microsoft goal is and should be their own success, not the success of 
> the economy or the market in general.

Neither I, nor you, nor the government of any nation, should care a
monkey's toss specifically for Microsoft's success. Microsoft is one
special interest, out of a potentially unbounded number of possible
players in the economy of a country and the world.

Unless you or I are specifically shareholders in Microsoft, we should not
care about their specific success; and the government should be entirely
agnostic about who are the winners and losers in an economy. The
government's role should be to ensure a level playing field, and minimum
levels of health, safety and environmental standards. There is no place
for government giving special-interests like Microsoft favours.

Society regulates where and how we park our cars: for instance, none of us
are allowed to park our car in the middle of busy road. and if we try, our
car is likely to be impounded. This is not because there is anything in
and of itself *wrong* with parking at such-and-such a place, but because
of the effect it has on others. A sensible government cares for smooth
flowing traffic on the roads, with the minimum of delays and the maximum
flow practical. Perhaps Walmart or Safeway might find it convenient to
park their trucks on public roads for any number of reasons. Too bad for
them: the benefit to them does not outweigh the loss to everyone else,
even if they don't specifically block access to their competitors.

Microsoft's behaviour over-all has been just as anti-social,
anti-competitive and harmful to the over-all running of the economy as a
hypothetical Walmart or Safeway that regularly parked their trucks in the
middle of the main road for a few hours while they unloaded.

Maybe, just maybe, if Mom & Pop's Corner Store tried it once or twice, we
could afford to turn a blind eye, especially if the disruption caused by
towing their delivery van was greater than the disruption caused by their
double-parking. Thousands of people break the law by double-parking for a
few minutes, and society doesn't collapse. But something that we can
afford to ignore when done by M&P's Corner Store becomes a serious problem
if done by somebody with the economic power of Walmart, with their
thousands of deliveries by 18-wheelers every day across the country.


> Microsoft's status of a "monopolist" 
> is only meaningful if you define the market as "desktop operating systems 
> for 32-bit x86 computers". 

That is *precisely* the market we're talking about. Not "any item that
runs off electricity", not "orange juice", not "pork bellies", not "all
computing devices", but desktop PCs. What did you think the Justice
Department's investigation was about? Motor vehicles?


> There is no way Microsoft could have expected the 
> market to be defined in this way and no way to argue that Microsoft had any 
> reason to believe their conduct was illegal.

Microsoft have lawyers. Microsoft destroyed emails and at least one senior
manager perjured himself in court. Microsoft created a fake video
demonstration which they then gave as evidence. Do you really believe that
Microsoft's executives are so incompetent that they don't get legal advice
before writing up contracts? Or that nobody in authority at Microsoft
realised that destroying evidence and lying to a judge are crimes?

In any case, even if you are right that Microsoft had no ideas... so what?
Ignorance of the law never has been an excuse for criminal behaviour. It
has always been every individual's responsibility to make sure that they
do not act illegally, and that goes for companies as well. 



-- 
Steven.



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Thu Oct  6 11:57:33 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 15:57:33 GMT
Subject: Can Python replace TCL/Expect
References: <1128578298.778640.313900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1583.1128579857.509.python-list@python.org>
	<6ncf13-2ps.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <slrndkae7r.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:08:09 GMT, Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.us> wrote:
> In article <mailman.1583.1128579857.509.python-list at python.org>,
> Robert Kern  <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>>xinchenvn at gmail.com wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> I'm learning Python. I don't know whether Python can do something like
>>> Expect can do. If yes, please show me how to do it.
...
> 2.  While Pexpect indeed "can do something like Expect", 
>     it does NOT have all the facilities and polish of the
>     latter.
> 3.  But very, VERY few of Expect's users are aware of more
>     than a handful of Expect's functions, let alone use them,
>     so it's fair to say that Pexpect does everything Expect
>     does, within the realm of ordinary use.

It depends. I do not feel /that/ advanced, but I've been bitten by pexpect's
limitations several times in several places.

... which puts me in a weird position ;-) I /loathe/ the Tcl language, but I
have to admit that its expect functionality is far superior to Python's.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 29 13:14:11 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:14:11 +0100
Subject: Automatic binding of  **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <djvb4b$1ga$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djvb4b$1ga$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <dk0al1$3mb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
> lbolognini at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have a very long list of parameters coming from a web form to my
>>method foo(self, **kwargs)
>>
>>I would like to avoid manually binding the variables to the values
>>coming through the **kwargs dictionary, just to keep the code cleaner,
>>I'd like to bind them automatically
> 
> 
> Why don't you just change the method signature to foo(self, x, y, z,
> whatever, **kwargs)?
> 
> Peter
> 
Probably because values are then required for those arguments. Plus it's 
a lot of work to specify "a very long list", and the list will also need 
maintaining.

I must, however, agree with Mike's advice: it's unwise to try and 
pollute a function's namespace with arbitrary variables. Some kind of 
bunch-like object would seem to be the most satisfactory way to go.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From edgar_xavier493 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 10 11:08:25 2005
From: edgar_xavier493 at hotmail.com (Edgar)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:08:25 -0400
Subject: read serial data from a barcode reader/scanner using python
Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV10AE6859DD4A49B23E2479CA790@phx.gbl>

Hi.

is there a way to program python to read serial data from a barcode reader/scanner and then using the 
parallel port of the PC to activate an electromagnetic door lock.

edgar
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From LISTSERV at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU  Wed Oct 19 22:18:41 2005
From: LISTSERV at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU (University of Arkansas LISTSERV Server (14.4))
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:18:41 -0500
Subject: Message ("Your message dated Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:18:37...")
Message-ID: <LISTSERV%200510192118419760.04F5@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU>

Your message  dated Thu, 20 Oct  2005 11:18:37 +0900 with  subject "Returned
mail: see transcript for details" has been submitted to the moderator of the
ICTLIST list: Cynthia Smith <ict at UARK.EDU>.


From pnau at sjm.com  Tue Oct  4 13:22:51 2005
From: pnau at sjm.com (pnau at sjm.com)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 10:22:51 -0700
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
In-Reply-To: <3qev4iFash6dU1@news.dfncis.de>
References: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3qer81FeldcmU1@news.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.1420.1128413993.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3qev4iFash6dU1@news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1128446571.096604.229500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm not going to quote anything (except a URI), but thanks very much
for your help, especially http://effbot.org/zone/import-confusion.htm.


Almost certainly the source (and solution) to my problem lies in what
you guys have brought out.  I'm no longer stuck (at least I hope not),
and I have knowledge to use in working out the solution.

Kind Regards,

~Peter



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Tue Oct  4 17:05:00 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:05:00 GMT
Subject: Idle
References: <dhuo72$8lo$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
Message-ID: <08C0f.517$ht7.198@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Hi,

I remember having that when the wrong version of TCL/TK was installed on my
system.

Regards,

Philippe



Hrvoje Blazevic wrote:

> How do I get Idle to work on Linux?
> 
> I've tried to compile 2.4.2 on Fedora core 4, and Suse 9.3, but Idle is
> after make install either missing (Fedora), or reports **Idle can't
> import Tkinter... **
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- Hrvoje



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 03:52:34 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:52:34 +0200
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djffg5$5gv$1@sea.gmane.org>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

> - Information about the current line and file as Ruby:
> __LINE__ __FILE__
> Instead of the python version:
> inspect.stack()[0][2] inspect.stack()[0][1]

(that's (mostly) CPython-dependent, and should be avoided)

> - ~== for approximate FP equality

str(a) == str(b)

> - comparison returns 4 values (i.e. inferior, equal, superior or not
> comparable), as in Pliant: "compare"

>>> cmp("a", "b")
-1
>>> cmp("a", "a")
0
>>> cmp("b", "a")
1
>>> cmp("?", u"?")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte /.../

sure looks like four possible outcomes.

> - identity function: "identity" as in Common Lisp (probably of little
> use in Python).

id(a)

> - Exception retrying: after catching an exception, tell the snippet to
> be re-run "retry" as in Ruby

>>> x = 0
>>> while 1:
...     try:
...         x += 1
...         if x <= 5:
...             raise ValueError
...     except ValueError:
...         print "retry"
...         continue
...     else:
...         break
...
retry
retry
retry
retry
retry
>>>

> - object cloning: obj.copy()  obj.deepcopy()

import copy

(cloning is usually a sign of a design problem in python.  if you think
you need it, you probably don't.  if you really think you need it, import
copy.)

> - recursive "flatten" as in Ruby (useful)

if you can define the semantics, it's a few lines of code.  if you're not
sure about the semantics, a built-in won't help you...

etc.

</F>





From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Oct 26 08:40:26 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 05:40:26 -0700
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
Message-ID: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

in some online documentations, for examples:

http://perldoc.perl.org/perlref.html
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-17.html
http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellDemo

the codes are syntax colored.

Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?

Thanks.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From noway at sorry.com  Wed Oct 19 19:16:04 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:16:04 GMT
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
	<VTn5f.15916$65.429948@twister1.libero.it>
	<dj666h$hkj$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <UsA5f.21930$Pe2.424973@twister2.libero.it>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:

> How to install this structure eg. on Linux? What layout do you
> recommend? It's tempting to use /opt hierarchy for installation target
> (as it gives relatively much freedom within application directory),
> but
> many administrators are reluctant to use this hierarchy and prefer
> more standarized targets, such as /usr or /usr/local.


I am not very experienced with Linux, but if you don't use something like
PyInstaller, you could still install the main tree somewhere like
/usr/local/myapp/ and then generate a simple script for /usr/local/bin which
adds /usr/local/myapp to sys.path[0], and "import main" to boot the
application.

I'm not sure I have answered your question though :)
-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 04:56:45 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:56:45 +0200
Subject: New Python book
References: <mailman.1572.1128550286.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128879054.054226.7220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h47qe0.tqref21v0ck70N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

hrh1818 <howardrh at westerncom.net> wrote:

> This book is not a new book. It is an updated version of Magnus's  2002
> Practical Python book.

Then it's probably a good book, because Practical Python sure was!


Alex


From andrea_gavana at tin.it  Mon Oct 31 08:00:10 2005
From: andrea_gavana at tin.it (Andrea Gavana)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:00:10 +0100
Subject: Problem with exe from py2exe
References: <1130668290.546611.277970@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4364c494$0$24646$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>

Hello Martin,

> My script runs fine with python, but the .exe produced with py2exe
> crashes out with:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "App1.py", line 4, in ?
>   File "wx\__init__.pyc", line 42, in ?
>   File "wx\_core.pyc", line 3163, in ?
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute
> 'wxEVT_SCROLL_ENDSCROLL'

Noting that you use wxPython 2.6.1.0, are you still using the old
namespace/import commands:

from wxPython.wx import *

?

If this is the case, please switch to the (relatively) new namespace/import
command:

import wx

The new syntax does not have wxEVT_SCROLL_ENDSCROLL but it does have
wx.EVT_SCROLL_ENDSCROLL.

The syntax has changed about 1 year ago (if not more), so if you are still
using the old namespace, I think the wxPython mailing list and the wxPython
main page should report:

"Use the NEW namespace"

In red blinking characters.

If this is not the case, I'm sorry I can't help you a lot. I always use
py2exe but I never encountered such problems.

HTH.

Andrea.

"Imagination Is The Only Weapon In The War Against Reality."
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/infinity77




From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Wed Oct 19 17:31:42 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:31:42 -0500
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129574592.754495.72530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129642964.690532.242710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <75DF16E6-AC4F-4ABE-A16C-0FAC7A089460@sbcglobal.net>

Perhaps you didn't read my original post? I'm being forced to  
consider Windows
for reasons beyond my control. Given that I wanted a decent shell in  
Windows,
I thought I would ask about Python shells because I think Python is a  
great language,
and such a beast would give me the flexibility I want on a machine I  
don't want to
use.

There is such a shell (though with a fifty page manual it'll be a  
little while before
I start using it :-) ). End of matter, except for those who wish to  
discuss further
Pythonish/shell related issues. Why this demands an OS comparison and an
insult is beyond my understanding.

Ken


On 19-Oct-05, at 2:22 PM, James Stroud wrote:

> The OP is obviously a troll. Or he doesn't realize that you can use  
> any shell
> in OSX as the user default. I used OSX for 4 years and had to go  
> 100% Linux
> because of my employer. OSX is the best of Linux and Windows-- 
> anybody who
> can't see that has obviously not worked with these three types of  
> operating
> systems enough and is basing conclusions on limited  
> information...Or is a
> troll. The OP probably works for microsoft.
>
> James
>

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From ivan at ivan-herman.net  Sun Oct  2 05:51:55 2005
From: ivan at ivan-herman.net (Ivan Herman)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:51:55 +0200
Subject: Python CGI Script
In-Reply-To: <433f9875@news.bezeqint.net>
References: <433f9875@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <433FADBB.5050609@ivan-herman.net>

Efrat,

I am afraid a CGI script is never *executed* by the browser. Instead, it sends
the URL to a server, expects the server to execute the script, and display the
server's response. If you just put a file name then (it seems, I never even
tried that) Firefox uses the local file store as a 'server' in that respect.

If you want to test a CGI script on your own machine, you should run a web
server on your own machine. That server should also be set up in a way that it
recognizes a '.py' file as a CGI script to be executed by Python (not all
servers may recognize the #!  trick...).

This may look scary, but it is not that bad. Apache has a number of precompiled
binary versions that you can install on your machine; you can also use servers
like W3C's jigsaw (this relies on Java) or others. These are all free and easy
to install and, well, manageable to configure. Actually, in case you run on a
MacOS X by any chance, Apache is already installed afaik...

I hope this helps

Ivan


-------- Original Message --------
From: Efrat Regev <efrat_regev at yahoo.com>
To:
Subject: Python CGI Script
Date: 30/9/2005 12:50

>     Hello,
> 
>     I'm a data-structures course TA trying to write a python CGI script
> for automatically compiling and testing students' projects.
> Unfortunately, I've run into some questions while writing this, which I
> couldn't solve with the various (and helpful) python-CGI documentation.
> (It's possible that I'm posting to the wrong group; if so, I'd
> appreciate suggestions for the appropriate group.)
> 
> 
> 1. In my HTML page, I have the following:
> 
> <form method="post" action="submission_processor.py"
> enctype="multipart/form-data">
> ...
> </form>
> 
>     In the above, submission_processor.py is the python CGI script. I
> didn't write a URL in the action field, since I'm first testing
> everyting on a local machine (running FC4). The first line of
> submission_processor.py is
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> and I've done
> 
> chmod +x submission_processor.py
> 
>     When I hit the "submit" button, my browser (Firefox on FC4) doesn't
> run the script; it asks me whether it should open
> submission_processor.py or save it to disk. I couldn't figure out why.
> 
> 2. My HTML page has the option for an instructor to list the various
> submissions and scores. Obviously, this should be inaccessible to
> students. The instructor has a password for doing this, therefore.
> Suppose I place the password inside a python script, and give this
> script only +x permission for others. Is this  adequate as far as security?
> 
> 
>     Thanks in advance for answering these questions.
> 
> 
>      Efrat


From claird at lairds.us  Thu Oct  6 13:08:03 2005
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:08:03 GMT
Subject: Can Python replace TCL/Expect
References: <1128578298.778640.313900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1583.1128579857.509.python-list@python.org>
	<6ncf13-2ps.ln1@lairds.us>
	<slrndkae7r.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <bg0g13-sbv.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <slrndkae7r.2ss.jgrahn-nntq at frailea.sa.invalid>,
Jorgen Grahn  <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>It depends. I do not feel /that/ advanced, but I've been bitten by pexpect's
>limitations several times in several places.
>
>... which puts me in a weird position ;-) I /loathe/ the Tcl language, but I
>have to admit that its expect functionality is far superior to Python's.
			.
			.
			.
'Salright.  There are Tcl programmers who feel the same way,
for example, about Python and its object orientation.

On to more constructive matters:  what are you doing about
Pexpect's limitations?  Have the maintainers responded to you
when you write?  Are you tempted to compose enhancements for
yourself?


From maravilloso at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 05:31:50 2005
From: maravilloso at gmail.com (Maravilloso)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 02:31:50 -0700
Subject: Printing a document in the default network printer under Windows
Message-ID: <1130319110.958321.111640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

    Hi all:

    I'm getting mad trying to find the way for making a standard
document (Word file, Postscript document, JPEG file...) to be
sent/printed in the default network printer from a python script that
runs on Win2K.

    Any idea?

    Thanks in advance.

Maravilloso



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 03:40:06 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:40:06 +0200
Subject: Weird import behavior
References: <1130260282.027302.49370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><Xns96FABB2481DB9duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<1130265049.927710.155050@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djnbsn$qot$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Tommytrojan" wrote:

> thanks for your quick reply. I guess I should have included the output.
> I thought I was clear in the error description.
> The problem is that I never assign to 'string'. I only reference it (as
> the error message correctly states). If you comment out the import
> statement in the except clause the program runs fine. Now notice that
> the exception hander never gets executed! Any explanation?

the language reference has the full story:

    http://docs.python.org/ref/naming.html

    "If a name is bound in a block, it is a local variable of that
    block." /.../

    "The following constructs bind names: formal parameters
    to functions, import statements, class and function definitions
    (these bind the class or function name in the defining block),
    and targets that are identifiers if occurring in an assignment,
    for loop header, or in the second position of an except
    clause header. The import statement of the form "from ...
    import *" binds all names defined in the imported module,
    except those beginning with an underscore. /.../

    A target occurring in a del statement is also considered bound
    for this purpose (though the actual semantics are to unbind
    the name). /.../

    If a name binding operation occurs anywhere within a code block,
    all uses of the name within the block are treated as references to
    the current block."

</F>





From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Tue Oct 11 09:23:56 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 06:23:56 -0700
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<mailman.1837.1128950861.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h485kt.1bru0if72epwrN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<dig6mc$20k$1@domitilla.aioe.org> <digci9$c10$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1129037036.712254.94830@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> Function name is perhaps not the best one. It occurs to me that this
> is the GROUP BY in SQL so perhaps a different name is better, but
> then again this might be moot if such a already exists somewhere :)

Amazing, you keep reinventing things, even with the exact same name :)

from itertools import imap,groupby
from operator import itemgetter

for fruit,group in groupby(fruits, itemgetter(0)):
    print fruit, "has a sum of", sum(imap(itemgetter(1),group))

For this to work as intended, fruits has to be already sorted by the
same key given to grouby; otherwise just replace fruits with
sorted(fruits, itemgetter(0)).

By the way, read all the functions in the itertools module
(http://docs.python.org/lib/itertools-functions.html), it will save you
a lot of time.

George



From richardjones at optushome.com.au  Sun Oct 23 21:56:44 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:56:44 +1000
Subject: OSDC 2005 Registration
Message-ID: <200510241156.44865.richardjones@optushome.com.au>

G'day folks,

This is a quick note to let you know that registrations for Australia's
second Open Source Developers' Conference are now open.  Last year's
conference was a huge hit with 60 high quality talks running in three
streams over three days. If you weren't able to join us last year  
make sure you don't miss out this year!

If you register before EARLY BIRD DATE you will receive a conference
t-shirt and financial discount.

You can register at http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html

OSDC is a grass roots-style conference designed by developers for
developers, covering open source languages, tools, libraries, operating
systems, licences and business models.  We're booking 3 lecture rooms  
each day for the 3 days to hold a new set 60 different talks.

Talks topics range from the safety Perl's Safe.pm, to rapid game
development in Python, to using PHP for unorthodox applications, to
utilizing Java's Groovy in your next application.  We also have talks on
conference skills, database integration, digital forensics, Gumstix and
Nagios.  You can find the full list of speakers and talk titles at

       http://osdc2005.cgpublisher.com/session_descriptions.html

Because there are so many good talks, you can be certain that there  
will be something that interests you in every talk session.
Each day will start with a keynote by our excellent keynote speakers.
These include Damian Conway, Jonathan Oxer, Richard Farnsworth (from the
Australian Synchrotron) and Anthony Baxter.  The rest of the day will be
filled with up to 5 hours of talks and plentiful food breaks.  Our  
catering choices should result in you being extraordinarily well fed  
throughout the days of the conference.

There will also be several BOFs (yet to be organised), lots of
opportunities to socialise, a semi-formal dinner, a partners'  
programme and other usual conference stuff.

If you have any other questions about what is happening, please don't
hesitate to ask: osdc-help at osdc.com.au
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From jabel at plus.net  Thu Oct 27 04:10:55 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:10:55 +0100
Subject: xml.dom.minidom - parseString - How to avoid ExpatError?
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510261020w1d485c98m526e325d6ada1082@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510251159p5e2501cbxf21e4f62f3d70b1c@mail.gmail.com>	
	<312cfe2b0510260738j460b075ch998371a460c39df8@mail.gmail.com>	
	<435F9C6C.50707@plus.net>
	<312cfe2b0510261020w1d485c98m526e325d6ada1082@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43608B8F.1000506@plus.net>

Have a look on:

http://xml.com/pub/a/98/10/guide0.html?page=4#WELLFORMED

Explains it better then I can.

J

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:

> What do you mean by well-formed?  What is required to make XML well 
> formed?
>
> -Greg
>
>
> On 10/26/05, *John Abel* <jabel at plus.net <mailto:jabel at plus.net>> wrote:
>
>     Try this page:
>
>     http://docs.python.org/lib/module-xml.sax.saxutils.html
>
>     I've just tried the code, taking out the &nbsp, and adding in the
>     belo,
>     as the XML is not well formed, otherwise.
>
>     <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-15"?>
>
>     The code then works.
>
>     HTH
>
>     J
>
>     Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
>
>     > Should I try some sort of XML group instead?  I'm still stuck on
>     this.
>     >
>     > -Greg
>     >
>     >
>     > On 10/25/05, *Gregory Pi?ero* <gregpinero at gmail.com
>     <mailto:gregpinero at gmail.com>
>     > <mailto:gregpinero at gmail.com <mailto:gregpinero at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     Hi guys,
>     >
>     >     I was hoping some XML expert could help me make this code work.
>     >     Below is sample code with sample XML similar to what I'm
>     dealing with.
>     >
>     >     How can I make the weird characters in the XML not break the
>     >     parser?  I'll do anything to make this work!
>     >
>     >     (Note: the &nbsp; broke my parser yesterday but doesn't seem
>     to in
>     >     this sample code)  But really I'm looking for solutions that
>     will
>     >     handles lots
>     >     of unusual characters.
>     >
>     >     Much thanks,
>     >
>     >     Greg
>     >
>     >
>     >     <code>
>     >     from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
>     >     data="""
>     >     <blog>
>     >     <post>
>     >     This is sample problem text. &nbsp; ?500.00
>     >     </post>
>     >     </blog>
>     >     """
>     >     myDOM=parseString(data)
>     >     </code>
>     >
>     >     <error>
>     >     Traceback (most recent call last):
>     >       File
>     >    
>     "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
>     >     line 307, in RunScript
>     >         debugger.run(codeObject, __main__.__dict__,
>     start_stepping=0)
>     >       File
>     >    
>     "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\__init__.py",
>     >     line 60, in run
>     >         _GetCurrentDebugger().run(cmd, globals,locals,
>     start_stepping)
>     >       File
>     >    
>     "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
>     >     line 631, in run
>     >         exec cmd in globals, locals
>     >       File "C:\Documents and Settings\Gregory\My
>     Documents\Python\xml
>     >     help\xmlproc.py", line 9, in ?
>     >         myDOM=parseString(data)
>     >       File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 1929, in
>     parseString
>     >         return expatbuilder.parseString (string)
>     >       File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 940, in
>     >     parseString
>     >         return builder.parseString(string)
>     >       File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\expatbuilder.py", line 223, in
>     >     parseString
>     >         parser.Parse(string, True)
>     >     ExpatError: undefined entity: line 4, column 29
>     >     </error>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >     --
>     >     Gregory Pi?ero
>     >     Chief Innovation Officer
>     >     Blended Technologies
>     >     (www.blendedtechnologies.com
>     <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>
>     <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com
>     <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>>)
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Gregory Pi?ero
>     > Chief Innovation Officer
>     > Blended Technologies
>     > (www.blendedtechnologies.com
>     <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>
>     <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
>
>
>     --
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>     <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Gregory Pi?ero
> Chief Innovation Officer
> Blended Technologies
> (www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>) 




From grunar at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 19:24:27 2005
From: grunar at gmail.com (grunar at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 16:24:27 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129849441.603557.160990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2310.1129819963.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129823975.023490.287440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202205340.13901@urchin.earth.li>
	<1129849441.603557.160990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129850667.692610.123750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


> person ** (
>   (person.type_id == 'customer')
>   & (person.id %= phone(phone.person_id)))
> )
>
Nevermind.  This doesn't work because all of the X= operators in
question are assignment operators, and therefore generate a Syntax
Error if in a nested expression. I think I've settled on just doing a
table.column.IN(blah) syntax.  This should be obvious to anyone reading
the code, and doesn't require mangling of the name (since it's
capitalized).  Then we'd have similar functions for other non intuitive
things, such as LIKE, EXISTS (on the table) and even a WHERE:

person.WHERE(
   (person.type_id == 'customer')
   & (person.id.IN(phone(phone.person_id)))
)



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Oct  4 17:10:59 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:10:59 +0200
Subject: Which SQL module to use?
In-Reply-To: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4342e6c5$0$7381$636a55ce@news.free.fr>

mrstephengross a ?crit :
> I'd like to do some basic SQL stuff in Python. It seems like there are
> a heck of a lot of SQL modules for Python. What's the simplest and
> easiest one to use?

Probably the one that go with your RDBMS.


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct  8 14:37:38 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 14:37:38 -0400
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <1128796692.f0f5a29fda81a72649660a18751c0512@teranews>

"Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:

> [snip]
>
> Ok, so I thought, how about creating a decorator that caches the
> function results and retrieves them from cache if possible, otherwise it
> calls the function and store the value in the cache for the next invokation.
>
> [snip]

Cool, you re-invented the memoization pattern:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/search?query=memoize&x=0&y=0&section=PYTHONCKBK&type=Subsection

Yes, it's kinda discouraging that most interesting ideas have already been conceived, implemented
and used by others...<wink>

George




From chemag at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 15:11:00 2005
From: chemag at gmail.com (chemag at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 12:11:00 -0700
Subject: Question on re.IGNORECASE
In-Reply-To: <1129834544.533189.301780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129834544.533189.301780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129835460.304276.44780@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

OK, I got it.

- The re module search function syntax is:

search(  	pattern, string[, flags])

where re.IGNORECASE is a valid flag.

- The RE Object search method syntax is:

search(  	string[, pos[, endpos]])

where "The optional second parameter pos gives an index in the string
where the search is to start; it defaults to 0"

It turns out that re.IGNORECASE has the value
2.

Am I the only person bitten by this?

http://docs.python.org/lib/node115.html
http://docs.python.org/lib/re-objects.html

-myself



From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct  8 14:02:30 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 18:02:30 GMT
Subject: Weighted "random" selection from list of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1766.1128790108.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1766.1128790108.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WQT1f.2697$ae.1174@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Jesse Noller wrote:


> 60% from list 1 (main_list[0])
> 30% from list 2 (main_list[1])
> 10% from list 3 (main_list[2])
> 
> I know how to pull a random sequence (using random()) from the lists,
> but I'm not sure how to pick it with the desired percentages.
> 
> Any help is appreciated, thanks
> 
> -jesse

Just add up the total of all lists.

     total = len(list1)+len(list2)+len(list3)
     n1 = .60 * total    # number from list 1
     n2 = .30 * total    # number from list 2
     n3 = .10 * total    # number from list 3

You'll need to decide how to handle when a list has too few items in it.

Cheers,
Ron


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 20 02:31:54 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:31:54 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:b15923-vj4.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>>     I guess I wasn't explicit enough. Most people who want cars also want 
>> an
>> engine. Some don't. Dealers could sell cars and engines separately. They
>> just (generally) don't. There is nothing illegal or immoral about this.

> There would be if an engine manufacturer refused to provide car
> manufacturers with ANY engines for any model, unless all buyers were
> charged for THEIR engine in every model, whether their engine was in
> there or not.
>
> You want to cease this line of apologism.

    I'm sorry, that's just crazy. An engine manufacturer could refuse to 
provide car manufacturers with ANY engines at all if they wanted to. It's 
their engines. They can use any mutually agreeable method to determine the 
number of engines provided and the price.

    This is not apologism. Microsoft has nothing to apologize for here. 
Microsoft has no ability to make anyone pay a penny more for their software, 
or the right to distribute it, than it is worth to them.

    DS




From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Tue Oct  4 19:03:32 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:03:32 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128467011.312.15.camel@blackwidow>

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 11:43 -0700, Paul Rubinhttp: wrote:
> What's the big deal?  Perl has an option for flagging undeclared
> variables with warnings ("perl -w") or errors ("use strict") and Perl
> docs I've seen advise using at least "perl -w" routinely.  Those
> didn't have much impact.  Python already has a "global" declaration;
> how does it de-Pythonize the language if there's also a "local"
> declaration and an option to flag any variable that's not declared as
> one or the other? 

I would be happy with a "local" option. e.g.

def myfunc():
   local spam = ...
   local eggs = ...
   global juice

   breakfast = juice + spam + eggs # raises an exception (undeclared
breakfast)


What I'm *afraid* of is:

def myfunc(MyClass myparam):
   int spam = 6
   str eggs

   # etc

i.e. typed declarations and type checking.  This would annoy the heck
out of me. 



From stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de  Fri Oct 28 18:01:00 2005
From: stefan.sonnenberg at freenet.de (Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:01:00 +0200
Subject: newstyle classes and __getattribute__
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2693.1130536387.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <4362977f$0$7227$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>	<mailman.2692.1130535774.509.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2693.1130536387.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43629f9c$0$7140$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens schrieb:
> James Stroud schrieb:
> 
>> On Friday 28 October 2005 14:26, Stefan Sonnenberg-Carstens wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>
>>
>> [..clip..]
>>
>>> Now, I do this:
>>>
>>> class T(object):
>>>     def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
>>>         self.name=name
>>>         self.port=port
>>>     def __getattribute__(self,key):
>>>         if key=='somekey':
>>>             return None
>>
>>
>> [..snip..]
>>
>>> But, then surprise:
>>> >>> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
>>> >>> dir(t)
>>>
>>> []
>>>
>>> What the hell is going wrong here ?
>>
>>
>>
>> __getattribute__ is returning None in all cases and dir() is 
>> converting None to [].
>>
>> Anyway, you should have done this:
>>
>> py> class T(object):
>> ....     def __init__(self,name='',port=80):
>> ....             self.name=name
>> ....     def __getattribute__(self,key):
>> ....             if key=='somekey':
>> ....                     return None
>> ....             else:
>> ....               return object.__getattribute__(self, key)
>> ....
>> py> t = T(name="test123",port=443)
>> py> dir(t)
>> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', 
>> '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', 
>> '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', 
>> '__weakref__', 'name']
>>
>> James
>>
> Sorry, but I am right that you explicitly call a "super" 
> __getattribute__ on object and pass it a reference to self and the
> desired key ?
> Only asking for clarification ...
> 
> But why does that work under 2.4.1, and even under ActiveState's 2.4.1 ?
> Was that changed between those 2 releases ?
> Intuitive behaviour of __getattribute__ would be:
> If a key is not handeld in that function, return what you already got.
> 
> Cheers,
> Stefan
> 
Sorry,forget that.
It never worked in those releases,
I made some errors which made me belief that, sorry.


From peter at commonlawgov.org  Tue Oct 11 06:05:04 2005
From: peter at commonlawgov.org (Peter)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:05:04 -0700
Subject: mod_python
In-Reply-To: <q79s13-sit.ln1@news.interplanet.it>
References: <1129016557.060339.136600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<q79s13-sit.ln1@news.interplanet.it>
Message-ID: <434B8E50.9020309@commonlawgov.org>

deelan wrote:

>Python_it wrote:
>(...)
>  
>
>>But my problem is where I have to place te following code in de
>>httpd.conf?
>>
>>    <Directory C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\>
>>        AddHandler mod_python .py
>>        PythonHandler mptest
>>        PythonDebug On
>>    </Directory>
>>
>>Because al the tutorials write this. But where?
>>    
>>
>
>try put it at the end of your http.conf file.
>
> >
> > If I try to put the code some where,
> > apache give the following message by testing the configure:
> > Multiple <Directory> arguments not (yet) supported
> > But what i have to change or replace.
>
>  
>
>just an idea, try:
>
><Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project">
>...
></Directory>
>
>because it sounds like apache parser gets confused
>with all those slashes.
>
>  
>
I could be wrong, but i think i read something about apache expecting 
you to use forward slashes instead of backslashes when i was using 
windows...
I seem to recall it being in the readme. ...?

>>I test with the next file:
>>
>>C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\project\
>>mptest.py
>>
>>from mod_python import apache
>>
>>def handler(req):
>>   req.content_type = 'text/plain'
>>   req.send_http_header()
>>   req.write('mptest.py\n')
>>   return apache.OK
>>
>>Is this code enough for testing?
>>
>>    
>>
>
>i believe so.
>
>also check this:
>"Getting mod_python Working"
><http://www.dscpl.com.au/articles/modpython-001.html>
>
>  
>
HTH,
Peter



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:05:29 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:05:29 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<1128694740.418262.95470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695602.718637.144720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di62rt$r7t$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> In fact, i want to sort the list based on the 'allocated attribute' and
> at the same time, test membership based on the id attribute.
> __cmp__ logically implies an ordering test, not an identity test. These
> two notions seems to be confounded in python which is unfortunate. Two
> objects could have the same rank while still being different.

In that case, define __lt__ and __eq__ separately instead of __cmp__.
list.sort() will use __lt__ if it's provided rather than __cmp__.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 30 08:44:50 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:44:50 +0100
Subject: parsing a tuple in embedded python
References: <1130673024.215437.53520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk2ioj$itq$1@sea.gmane.org>

jenkins.justin at gmail.com wrote:

> I am returning a tuple from my python method and am stuck trying to
> figure out how to read it into a C array using PyArg_Parse.
> My C Code:
> int array[3];
> PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", &array);
>
> My Python Code:
> mytuple = (1,2,3)
> return mytuple
>
> That gives me a segmentation fault. What am I doing wrong?

you're not providing enough arguments; "iii" means three pointers, not
one.  try:

    PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", array, array+1, array+2)

instead.  or, if you prefer maximum clarity:

    PyArg_Parse(return, "(iii)", &array[0], &array[1], &array[2])

(I assume you left out the error handling code; ignoring the return value
from PyArg_Parse is not a good idea)

</F>





From rrr at ronadam.com  Tue Oct 25 02:54:09 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:54:09 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lEk7f.3627$Zd.2420@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

James Stroud wrote:
> Here it goes with a little less overhead:
> 
> 
> py> class namespace:
> ...   def __init__(self, adict):
> ...     self.__dict__.update(adict)
> ...
> py> n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
> py> n.bob
> 1
> py> n.ted
> 3
> 
> James

How about...

     class namespace(dict):
         __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
         __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
         __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__


This seems to work, and eliminates the indirect method calls.

Cheers,
    Ron



From rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 04:17:45 2005
From: rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk (Ross Bamford)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:17:45 +0100
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
	<86r7aqugmk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<iitrk1dmcr1eoiei7tuqrels1c86du7dn5@4ax.com>
	<7xk6ghkflq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <op.sykrzvh743pcxb@jukebox.roscopeco>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:04:17 +0100, <//phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid>> wrote:

> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
>> Next Mr. Phish had to present his passport etc when he got his Thawte
>> ID.  Now Interpol has a much better handle on putting him in jail.
>> He can't repudiate his phishing attempt.
>
> Any underage drinker in a college town can tell you a hundred ways to
> get sufficient fake ID to get around that.
>
> See also: http://www.ahbl.org/funny/response1.php
>
> I'll let others here fill in the blanks.

:) :) :)

-- 
Ross Bamford - rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 15:45:18 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:45:18 +0200
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<di8kmc$97c$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <di97kc$qv6$1@sea.gmane.org>

>    seq = PySequence_Fast(data, "expected a sequence");
>    if (!seq)
>        return NULL;

here's some more information on the PySequence_Fast API:

    http://www.effbot.org/zone/python-capi-sequences.htm

</F> 





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 19:45:28 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:45:28 GMT
Subject: Log rolling question
References: <1130259387.787107.120740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<GK2dnZfoNIAY9cPeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
	<1130260944.709944.129960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e9cf8.951408463@news.oz.net>

On 25 Oct 2005 10:22:24 -0700, "elake" <ericlake at gmail.com> wrote:

>Is there a way to do this for a whole calendar month?
>
Yes, if you can specify exactly what you want to do. E.g.,
today is 2005-10-25. What date would you like as the earliest
to keep for the four months? What if today's date was not
available in the month of four months ago? Do you want to
have cleansed logs always start on the first day of a month?
if so, do you want to go back four prior months, or consider
any current month days as being a month-log even if partial,
and only include 3 prior months? You haven't defined your requirements ;-)

if you wanted to go back to the first day of four months back, maybe
you could call that earliest_time and delete all files where after
    import os, stat
you remove files where
    os.stat(pathtofile)[stat.ST_MTIME] < earliest_time

going back from current time might go something like

 >>> import time
 >>> y,m = time.localtime()[:2]
 >>> y,m
 (2005, 10)
 >>> y,m = divmod(y*12+m-1-4,12) # -1 for 0..11 months
 >>> m+=1 # back to 1..12
 >>> y,m
 (2005, 6)
 >>> time.strptime('%04d-%02d-01'%(y,m), '%Y-%m-%d')
 (2005, 6, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 152, -1)
 >>> earliest_time = time.mktime(time.strptime('%04d-%02d-01'%(y,m), '%Y-%m-%d'))
 >>> earliest_time
 1117609200.0
 >>> time.ctime(earliest_time)
 'Wed Jun 01 00:00:00 2005'

Hm ...
    Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct
     -4   -3   -2   -1  -0      
I guess that guarantees 4 full prior months.

I used strptime to build a complete 9-tuple rather than doing it by hand, which
I'm not sure off hand how to do ;-)

There's another module that does date interval addition/subtraction, but it didn't
come with the batteries in my version.

BTW, make sure all your date stuff is using the same epoch base date, in case you
have some odd variant source of numerically encoded dates, e.g., look at

 >>> import time
 >>> time.localtime(0)
 (1969, 12, 31, 16, 0, 0, 2, 365, 0)
 >>> time.ctime(0)
 'Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 1969'
 >>> time.gmtime(0)
 (1970, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, 0)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 11 21:43:32 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 01:43:32 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<k0qok19md1le5ju60ip9a501kt16nia3pv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96ECD2D4D45D4castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
 
> So let's say I decide to send an email to Donald Knuth.

:-)

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 20:36:29 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:36:29 +1000
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.48.00.137827@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Gmy6f.208600$p_1.49655@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.00.36.28.678699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:41:58 +0000, Ron Adam wrote:

> Don't forget a string can be sliced.  In this case testing before you 
> leap is a win.   ;-)

Not much of a win: only a factor of two, and unlikely to hold in all
cases. Imagine trying it on *really long* strings with the first space
close to the far end: the split-and-join algorithm has to walk the string
once, while your test-then-index algorithm has to walk it twice.

So for a mere factor of two benefit on short strings, I'd vote for the
less complex split-and-join version, although it is just a matter of
personal preference.

-- 
Steven.



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 15 02:07:51 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:07:51 -0400
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2104.1129352608.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86u0fjs47c.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
> Anthony Liu wrote:
>> I have this simple string:
>> 
>> mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
>> 
>> I want to split it and give me a list as
>> 
>> ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']
> You could use regular expressions as Jason Stitt mentions, or you could
> replace '_' with ' ' and then split.
>
> In [2]: mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
>
> In [3]: mystr.replace('_', ' ').split()
> Out[3]: ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

A third alternative is to split once, then split the substrings a
second time and stitch the results back together:

>>> sum([x.split('_') for x in mystr.split()], [])
['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

Which is probably slow. To bad extend doesn't take multiple arguments.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fmstasi at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 08:38:19 2005
From: fmstasi at gmail.com (Francesco Marchetti-Stasi)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:38:19 +0200
Subject: python server?
Message-ID: <8450c3400510110538p74a9373cx@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everybody,

I am the happy yet unsatisfied owner of an ipaq 3760. I am writing a
python+pygtk editor optimized for an handheld, and in the future I'd
like to write more applications (to-do-list and agenda are on top of
my priorities, since the existing ones don't fit my needs).

I was now thinking of a way to improve memory usage. Any python
application I launch takes 9-10 MB, and this risks to be a major
blocking factor, since the memory I have is only 64 MB.

So I'd like to share the memory between programs, sort of an
emacs-server mode. I have a vague idea of the way to implement this,
with a python-server.py script which would take over programs from a
launcher.py script, or maybe a single script which would run into the
background, the first time it is launched, and feed the programs to an
already running copy,  when finding an already running instance. Since
I am mainly interested to GUI applications, the resulting threads
should cohexist nicely.

I was wondering if something similar already existed, to use as-is or
to adapt to my needs.
I did a little googling, which pointed me to interesting, but rather
different projects. Has anybody ever seen or heard something of this
kind? Or maybe there is something almost-ready in the amazing python
library (as you understand, I am rather new to python), and I missed
it?

Thanks,
Francesco.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 15:40:30 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:40:30 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk> <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.40.32.740000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <0trik1ldrtvuhsdvoai4a7h34q7la1pehl@4ax.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:40:34 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>
>Yes. It is called "eyes". I look at the image, and miracle upon miracles,
>I recognise Johnny wearing a hat.

Even for a limited application like children's birthday parties
captions could say things like:

Johnny with this friend Pete, the one I told you about who has
leukemia....

Here is Johnny opening your present, the sweater you knitted him.

If you want to communicate with text and with pictures obviously there
are times when you want to communicate with both text and pictures.

Imagine a main sending emailed floor tile samples to his wife on a
business trip for her final veto and not being allowed to caption
them.

The point I can't pound enough is that rich text and pictures with
captions are not INHERENTLY dangerous or spam. (Note that the most
common spam is the Nigerian con and variants which comes as a
non-formatted message.) Many have mentally linked rich text with
danger and spam because of Microsoft's incompetent email software. The
solution is to fix the software not block everyone from communicating
with rich text and pictures.

You don't have to use Outlook.  see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/email.html
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 11:42:12 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 08:42:12 -0700
Subject: example of using urllib2 with https urls
Message-ID: <1129650132.645135.155030@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Can somebody provide an example of how to retrieve a https url, given
username and password? I don't find it in the standard documentation.
TIA,

          Michele Simionato



From hauck at gseos.com  Tue Oct 25 13:11:22 2005
From: hauck at gseos.com (Tommytrojan)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 10:11:22 -0700
Subject: Weird import behavior
Message-ID: <1130260282.027302.49370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have been using Python for a while but today I came across a really
strange behavior:

While poking around in Queue.py due to problems with importing this
module from a thread I got an error that a module that I imported on
top of the file could not be accessed. I reduced the problem to this
small script:

import string
import os

class T:
    def __init__(self):
        try:
            print 'xxx nothing to do'
        except ImportError:
            print 'got an import error'
            import os as string

        print 'xxxx string module', string

t=T()


The import clause in the except statement (although never executed)
removes the reference to the string module imported at the beginning of
the script. Any idea why this is the case? 

Thanks,
  Tommy



From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Wed Oct  5 22:48:17 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:48:17 -0400
Subject: Absolultely confused...
In-Reply-To: <7jcqbu2h.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7jcqbu2h.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <1128566897.3513.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Thanks for the reply. :)

I may be missing something critical here, but I don't exactly grok what
you're saying; how is it even possible to have two instances of
PyType_vector3d? It is (like all the examples show and all the extension
modules I've done in the past) a static structure declared and assigned
to all at once, only once.

Am I misunderstanding the point? :)

/me ducks

On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 16:26 +0200, Thomas Heller wrote:
> Jeremy Moles <jeremy at emperorlinux.com> writes:
> 
> > So, here is my relevant code:
> >
> > 	PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)
> >
> > And here ismy error message:
> >
> > 	argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d
> >
> > I know PyType_vector3d "works" (as I can use them in the interpreter all
> > day long), and I know I'm passing a pylf.core.vector3d (well, apparently
> > not...)
> >
> > I've spent hours and hours on this and I'm finally just giving up and
> > asking. I've tried everything to get my program to verify that arg1 is
> > really a PyType_vector3d, but to no avail.
> >
> > If I take out the "!" in the format string and just use "O", I can at
> > least get past PyArg_ParseTuple. Then I try something like...
> >
> > 	PyObject_TypeCheck(arg1, &PyType_vector3d)
> >
> > Which also fails, but I know for a fact that arg1's PyObject_Repr is
> > what it should be. (pylf.core.vector3d)
> >
> > I guess my question is: what in the world could be causing this to fail?
> > It seems like I'm just not able to use ParseType or BuildValue to create
> > objects of my own type.
> >
> > I know I haven't provided a lot of information, but does anyone have any
> > ideas or where I should start looking?
> 
> Can it be that you have TWO instances of the pylf.core.vector3d object?
> Debugging should reveal it...
> 
> Thomas



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 19:52:10 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:52:10 +1000
Subject: Binding a variable?
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86hdbau65d.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.23.52.10.332962@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:33:18 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:

> Paul Dale <pd at traxon.com> writes:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that
>>
>> temp = 5
>>
>> list = [ temp ]

Don't use the names of built-in functions as variables.

>> temp == 6
>>
>> list
>>
>> would show
>>
>> list = [ 6 ]
> 
> No. You need to either put a mutable in the list, or subclass list so
> that indexing gets the value, looks it up in the appropriate
> namespace, and returns that value.


Or something even conceptually simpler than having to muck about with
looking up different namespaces:

class Data:
    def __init__(self, obj):
        self.value = obj
    def __str__(self):
        return self.value

temp = Data(5)
L = [temp]
print L

will give 5.

temp.value = 6
print L

will now give 6.


-- 
Steven.



From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Sat Oct  1 14:16:01 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 22:16:01 +0400
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20051001221601.1d301959.jk@ospaz.ru>

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:28:26 -0400
Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> The lesson for me is to spend much less time on Python discussion and much 
> more on unfinished projects.  So even if I never use the new syntax, I will 
> have gained something ;-)

QOTW?

-- 
jk


From apgwoz at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 15:25:01 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 15:25:01 -0400
Subject: Geocoding and python
Message-ID: <22BB6AA0-7B20-43C1-9ADE-828277DD9006@gmail.com>

Does anyone know of a python module that can read and search the  
tiger line data for geolocation?

Currently, I can use xmlrpc to query geocoder.us but I'd rather not  
be querying their server if I don't have to.

Thanks


---
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org




From xah at xahlee.org  Fri Oct  7 06:58:42 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 03:58:42 -0700
Subject: check html file size
In-Reply-To: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128682722.213703.279200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Xah Lee wrote: ? would anyone like to translate the following perl
script to Python or Scheme (scsh)??

Here's the Python version.

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
# Python


# Wed Oct  5 15:50:31 PDT 2005
# given a dir, report all html file's size. (counting inline images)
# XahLee.org

import re, os.path, sys

inpath= '/Users/t/web/'

while inpath[-1] == '/': inpath = inpath[0:-1] # get rid of trailing
slash

if (not os.path.exists(inpath)):
    print "dir " + inpath + " doesn't exist!"
    sys.exit(1)

##################################################
# subroutines


def getInlineImg(file_full_path):
    '''getInlineImg($file_full_path) returns a array that is a list of
inline images. For example, it may return ['xx.jpg','../image.png']'''

    FF = open(file_full_path,'rb')
    txt_segs = re.split( r'src', unicode(FF.read(),'utf-8'))
    txt_segs.pop(0)
    FF.close()
    linx=[]
    for linkBlock in txt_segs:
        matchResult = re.search(r'\s*=\s*\"([^\"]+)\"', linkBlock)
        if matchResult: linx.append( matchResult.group(1) )
    return linx


def linkFullPath(dir,locallink):
    '''linkFullPath(dir, locallink) returns a string that is the full
path to the local link. For example,
linkFullPath('/Users/t/public_html/a/b', '../image/t.png') returns
'Users/t/public_html/a/image/t.png'. The returned result will not
contain double slash or '../' string.'''
    result = dir + '/' + locallink
    result = re.sub(r'//+', r'/', result)
    while re.search(r'/[^\/]+\/\.\.', result): result =
re.sub(r'/[^\/]+\/\.\.', '', result)
    return result

def listInlineImg(htmlfile):
    '''listInlineImg($html_file_full_path) returns a array where each
element is a full path to inline images in the html.'''
    dir=os.path.dirname(htmlfile)
    imgPaths = getInlineImg(htmlfile)
    result = []
    for aPath in imgPaths:
        result.append(linkFullPath( dir, aPath))
    return result


##################################################
# main

fileSizeList=[]
def checkLink(dummy, dirPath, fileList):
    for fileName in fileList:
        if '.html' == os.path.splitext(fileName)[1] and
os.path.isfile(dirPath+'/'+fileName):
            totalSize = os.path.getsize(dirPath+'/'+fileName)
            imagePathList = listInlineImg(dirPath+'/'+fileName)
            for imgPath in imagePathList: totalSize +=
os.path.getsize(imgPath)
            fileSizeList.append([totalSize, dirPath+'/'+fileName])


os.path.walk(inpath, checkLink, 'dummy')

fileSizeList.sort(key=lambda x:x[0],reverse=True)

for it in fileSizeList: print it
print "done reporting."



-------------------------------------------------
This Python version is a direct translation of the Perl version. They
match pretty much line by line.

for both the Python version and the Perl version, see:
 http://xahlee.org/perl-python/check_html_size.html

Would any lisper provides a Scheme version? i don't think i'll do a
Scheme version anytime soon. Please, Schemers, show us some fanfare.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 09:38:04 2005
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:38:04 -0400
Subject: Can module access global from __main__?
Message-ID: <digf7s$j3c$1@sea.gmane.org>

Suppose I have a main program, e.g., A.py.  In A.py we have:

X = 2
import B

Now B is a module B.py.  In B, how can we access the value of X?




From brakjoller at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 07:36:10 2005
From: brakjoller at gmail.com (Mathias Dahl)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:36:10 +0200
Subject: Listening for keypress in the background
Message-ID: <m2zmp1u6l1.fsf@gmail.com>

I have created a small Python program that is running on my desktop.

How can I make it listen for a certain keypress (say, Windows-key +
space) in a controlled fashion even when it is not the program having
focus?

I need to do this running under GNOME in Mandrake GN/Linux 10.

/Mathias


From projecktzero at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  4 09:15:21 2005
From: projecktzero at yahoo.com (projecktzero)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:15:21 -0700
Subject: ssh or other python editor
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

martijn at gamecreators.nl wrote:
> H!
>
> I'm using a windows machine.
> And a FreeBSD server where I run my python scripts.
>
> I'm working/making my python scripts in a windows OS with putty now.
> But I really want the python text colors and tab spacing like the
> python windows IDE but the problem is that I can't find a good program.
>
> Thanks

So you're using Putty to telenet/ssh into the FreeBSD server, but what
editor on you using on the FreeBSD server?

I use VIM on my Windows workstation to edit files on a linux server. I
have a network drive mounted to the linux server. Samba needs to be
running on the server. If the FreeBSD server has samba running, you can
mount a drive and use your Python Windows IDE.

If samba isn't available/set-up, you can try using FTP. You can then
use Crimson Editor which does the syntax coloring and can ftp to/from a
server.



From jfdoyon at methane.ca  Sat Oct  1 19:13:20 2005
From: jfdoyon at methane.ca (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Doyon?=)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 19:13:20 -0400
Subject: Class Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1328.1128207529.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lKE%e.9161$cq2.1272980@news20.bellglobal.com>

You have to crate an instanciation of the class before you can use one.

So you want to do:

instance = Xyz()
instance.y()

You won't get any output though, might want to do:

class Xyz:
     def y(self):
         print 'y worked!'

it's more satisfying :)

Basically, look into the difference between a class, and the INSTANCE of 
a class.

Cheers,
J.F.

Ivan Shevanski wrote:
> To continue with my previous problems, now I'm trying out classes.  But 
> I have a problem (which I bet is easily solveable) that I really don't 
> get.  The numerous tutorials I've looked at just confsed me.For intance:
> 
>>>> class Xyz:
> 
> ...     def y(self):
> ...             q = 2
> ...
> 
>>>> Xyz.y()
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unbound method y() must be called with Xyz instance as first 
> argument
> (got nothing instead)
> 
> 
> So. . .What do I have to do? I know this is an extremley noob question 
> but I think maybe if a person explained it to me I would finally get it =/
> 
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> -Ivan
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's 
> FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct  3 11:29:36 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:29:36 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xxbgj4h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4340dfd2.3069694347@news.oz.net>
	<7x64sex1o1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <43414a14.3096896000@news.oz.net>

On 03 Oct 2005 04:47:26 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>> Would you want to outlaw 'None' as an attribute name?
>> Python seems to be straddling the fence at this point:
>>  >>> c.None = 'c.None'
>>  SyntaxError: assignment to None
>
>Heehee, I think that's just a compiler artifact, the lexer is treating
>None as a keyword instead of a normal lexical symbol that the compiler
>treats separately.  That's also why it raises SyntaxError instead of
>some other type of error.  Yes, None should be ok as an attribute name.
>
Not sure whether which compiler. This one seems to differ from the C version.

 >>> import compiler
 >>> compiler.parse("c.None = 'c.None'")
 Module(None, Stmt([Assign([AssAttr(Name('c'), 'None', 'OP_ASSIGN')], Const('c.None'))]))

 >>> compiler.compile("c.None = 'c.None'", '', 'exec')
 <code object <module> at 02EE7FA0, file "", line 1>
 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(compiler.compile("c.None = 'c.None'", '', 'exec'))
   1           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('c.None')
               3 LOAD_NAME                0 (c)
               6 STORE_ATTR               1 (None)
               9 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              12 RETURN_VALUE
 >>> c = type('',(),{})()
 >>> exec   (compiler.compile("c.None = 'c.None'", '', 'exec'))
 >>> c.None
 'c.None'

So the compiler module is happy to generate code that you can execute,
but the builtin compiler seems not to be:

 >>> c.None = 'c.None'
 SyntaxError: assignment to None

and definitely not run-time:
 >>> def foo():
 ...     c.None = 'c.None'
 ...
   File "<stdin>", line 2
 SyntaxError: assignment to None

Seems like a bug wrt the intent of making compiler.compile work
exactly like the builtin C version. But maybe it has been fixed --
I am still running 2.4 from the beta I built with mingw (because
the new microsoft msi loader won't run on my version of NT4 without
upgrading that I've got too much dll hell to do on this box.
I should also upgrade mingw/msys and recompile, but I spend time here instead ;-/ )

Python 2.4b1 (#56, Nov  3 2004, 01:47:27)
[GCC 3.2.3 (mingw special 20030504-1)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 10:54:00 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 07:54:00 -0700
Subject: Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.19.14.02.16.956637@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<m3mzl87am5.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.16.41.654136@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dj4858$2t0$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<pan.2005.10.19.14.02.16.956637@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1129733640.047687.194990@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Maybe you don't have an up to date python version. I'm using 2.4.2.
I tried:

import pprint
pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2,[3,4]],5], width=1,indent=4)
[   1,
    2,
    3,
    4,
    [   0,
        1,
        2,
        [   3,
            4]],
    5]

Works fine.



From christian at spam.no  Thu Oct 13 11:56:14 2005
From: christian at spam.no (Christian)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:56:14 +0200
Subject: How to call a script from another?
In-Reply-To: <434e7e85$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <434e6f56$0$90426$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.2000.1129214734.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434e7e85$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <434e83a2$0$90437$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Thanks guy's, you have opened  my eyes and made my next step a whole lot 
easier.


Chris


From kst-u at mib.org  Wed Oct 12 21:13:28 2005
From: kst-u at mib.org (Keith Thompson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:13:28 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lnu0fmw762.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
[...]
> Especially with spam, there are no perfect solutions, but at least we
> could do many times better than what we are living with and put the
> spammers out of business.

A partial solution to spam, or at least to pollution of Usenet
newsgroups, would be to STOP POSTING THIS STUFF TO NEWSGROUPS WHERE
IT'S NOT RELEVANT.

There are several newsgroups that deal with e-mail abuse.  This
discussion isn't being posted to any of them.  Please stop.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u at mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center             <*>  <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this.


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 11 06:10:01 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:10:01 +0200
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndkmo1c.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
	<dig094$ntj$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <dig30v$9rd$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> If I have a generator or other iterable producing a vast number of
> items, and use it like this:
> 
> s = [k for k in iterable]
> 
> if I know beforehand how many items iterable would possibly yield, would
> a construct like this be faster and "use" less memory?
> 
> s = [0] * len(iterable)
> for i in xrange(len(iterable)):
>      s[i] = iterable.next()

You can easily answer the speed aspect of your question using the timeit
module:

~ $ python2.4 -m timeit -s'iterable=range(1000)' '[k for k in iterable]'
10000 loops, best of 3: 111 usec per loop

~ $ python2.4 -m timeit -s'iterable=range(1000)' 's = [0]*len(iterable); it
= iter(iterable)' 'for i in xrange(len(iterable)): s[i] = it.next()'
1000 loops, best of 3: 513 usec per loop

~ $ python2.4 -m timeit -s'iterable=range(1000)' 's = [0]*len(iterable)'
'for i, v in enumerate(iterable): s[i] = v'
1000 loops, best of 3: 269 usec per loop

~ $ python2.4 -m timeit -s'iterable=range(1000)' 'list(iterable)'
100000 loops, best of 3: 7.33 usec per loop

Peter



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 15 02:29:20 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:29:20 -0400
Subject: MD5 module Pythonicity
References: <mailman.2106.1129353795.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86psq7s37j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Leandro Lameiro <lameiro at gmail.com> writes:
> What's wrong in having a function like the one I said, that would
> split files for you, feed md5.update and, when it is over, return the
> digest?

Nothing in particular; it's just a trivial thing to write. If you add
every usefull utility function to the standard library, you wind up
with a multi-thousand page library documentation. The line has to be
drawn somewhere.

> It is easier, doesn't require MD5 objects creation, works well on
> small and big files, makes the code more readable and simple. Also,
> calculating MD5 of files seems to be a common enough task to be put in
> the library (well, at least on GNU/Linux we have one command just for
> this - md5sum)

Wanting to sum a file at the command line isn't that uncommon, so a
utility makes some sense. But how often does a program need the md5
sum of a file?  Especially compared to how often it wants to take the
md5 sum of some string that isn't in a file?

It might be worth adding. Except that md5 isn't really trusted
anymore; you really want to be using sha1 (and you presumably have an
sha1sum utility. FreeBSD has md5 and sha1 commands). But the sha
module doesn't have a file handler either.

You might try posting a patch to sourceforge, and see if it gets
accepted.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 02:15:03 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:15:03 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <nvr0m1ld2c60kim449rrtiidenogau55ml@4ax.com>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:50:07 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    There is no different to Microsoft beween a bare computer and one 
>preloaded with Linux or FreeBSD. One can quickly be converted to other with 
>minimal cost of effort. In the market, bare PCs really do compete with 
>Windows PCs.

You think it is OK to force someone into a choice of committing a
criminal act with the alternative of losing their established business
and having to put 8 employees out of work. What religion do you belong
to?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 11:14:47 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:14:47 -0700
Subject: Tricky import question.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2546.1130249396.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130247555.359770.169070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2546.1130249396.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130253287.721535.322370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Sadly I get this reply when I try that.

AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'main'

I am getting the impression that the value returned from the
__import__() function is only a string reference NOT an object.

I am going to have a go at trying this with the imp' module as that
specifically mentions that an object is returned.



From codecraig at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 12:14:25 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (py)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 09:14:25 -0700
Subject: SNMP
In-Reply-To: <1130515702.436348.190240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130515702.436348.190240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130516065.407854.325980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

...also I am looking to work with windows, as well as linux.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 10 09:42:35 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:42:35 +0100
Subject: One last thing about SocketServer
In-Reply-To: <1128949186.15247.11.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
References: <1128949186.15247.11.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <didr47$inm$1@sea.gmane.org>

rbt wrote:
> I've read more about sockets and now, I have a better understanding of
> them. However, I still have a few SocketServer module questions:
> 
> When used with SocketServer how exactly does socket.setdefaulttimeout()
> work? Does it timeout the initial connect request to the socket server
> or does it timeout the session between the connecting client socket and
> the client socket the server generated to handle the incoming request? 
> 
setdefaulttimeout() simply sets the default timeout for all sockets 
created thereafter. This timeout applies to any socket operation, I 
believe (though I am unsure about "accept()").

> Also, since the *only* thing a 'socket server' does is to create 'client
> sockets' to handle requests, how do I use socket object features on
> these generated clients to manage and/or monitor them?
> 
When the accept() call on a socket returns a tuple(socket, address): the 
first element of the returned tuple is the socket you use to communicate 
with that particular client (in other words, it represents the server 
end of the connection that's just been accept()ed).

So you can read and write that socket to communicate with that client 
over that specific connection. Of course, if you don't use either the 
ThreadingMixIn or the ForkingMixIn then communication with one client 
will effectively stop you form accept()ing any more connections, hence 
the need for the mix-in classes.

> The SocketServer module is great, but it seems to hide too many details
> of what it's up to!
> 
Well, of course, that is what abstractions are for! You should bear in 
mind that SocketServer isn't necessarily the most efficient or effective 
way to handle multiple clients concurrently, but it's very convenient 
when you are just getting started.

Later you might want to consider an asyncore-based approach, or perhaps 
using the Twisted package. Both of these solutions are a little more 
robust for production code.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From cyril.bazin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 04:25:57 2005
From: cyril.bazin at gmail.com (Cyril Bazin)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:25:57 +0100
Subject: meschach + Python
Message-ID: <a10b8d620510310125y7acc5b74le7a324dc0a334c74@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I need to compute eigenvalues and eigenvectors on sparse matrix.
I found a C library "meschach" which seems to do the work.
Unfortunatly, this libray doesn't seem to be interfaced in Python.

Has anyone ever used this library and interfaced it in Python or has a
solution
to compute eigenvalues and eigenvalues on sparse matrix efficiently in
Python?

Thanks in advance,

Cyril
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From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 00:40:20 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:40:20 -0400
Subject: An interesting question about "print '\a'"
References: <mailman.2454.1130128641.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k65u23-59c.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-24, Anthony Liu wrote:
> We know that if we do
>
> print '\a'
>
> the bell will sound.
>
> Now, why do I hear the sound on my local machine when
> I run a python script on a remote host?
>
> I understand if I hear it when I do 
>
> print '\a'
>
> on my local machine.
>
> Does the command get sent back to the client machine?

    The code is printed to stdout, which is your terminal. Your
    terminal interprets ^G as a beep.

-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 14:53:29 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga>
Message-ID: <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne at attglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368 at fe10.lga...

> Mike Meyer wrote:

>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>>
>>>    It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's 
>>> obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with 
>>> Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or 
>>> fraud.
>>
>>
>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
>
> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.

    That's almost as convincing as "that's what you think".

    DS




From http  Wed Oct 19 03:44:05 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 00:44:05 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4n6ag.5uhq7a7xe1v4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86ach6y6ta.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4o6eo.4gi3s6xgesmzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7xll0qdk8q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> > You mean like google? Until recently, they're an outstanding example
> > of doing things right, and providing functionality that degrades
> > gracefully as the clients capabilities go down.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "until recently" in this context.  AFAIK,
> we've NEVER wasted our efforts by pouring them into the quixotic task of
> supporting *100%* of possible browsers that may hit us, with the near
> infinite number of combinations of browsers, versions and disabled
> feature that this would require.

The non-graphics-oriented Google services like search, news, and
groups, have worked perfectly well with lynx until recently.  No
javascript required, no image display required, and no cookies required.  


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Mon Oct 31 13:57:00 2005
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:57:00 -0500
Subject: MacOS Extension Carbon.File.FSCatalogInfo file sizes should be
	UInt64?
In-Reply-To: <1130736502.902026.91020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130736502.902026.91020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c8bdd$436668fb$4275d90a$11899@FUSE.NET>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

donbro wrote:
| If my read of the extension source (Mac/Modules/file/_Filemodule.c) is
| correct, the parameter sizes specified for data and resource file sizes
| are UInt32 where they should be UInt64.
|
| In both OS9 and OSX Carbon, the MacOS File Manager (Files.h) uses
| UInt64 values for data and resource filesizes.
|
| Testing Python 2.3 and 2.4.2 on MacOS 10.3 returns 0L for the file size
| values and correct values for other elements such as parentDirID:
|
|
|>>>fsRef = FSRef('LICENSE')
|>>>catinfo, d1, d2, d3  = fsRef.FSGetCatalogInfo(-1L)
|>>>catinfo.dataPhysicalSize
|
| 0
|
|>>>catinfo.parentDirID
|
| 2026177
|
|
| in Files.h, both OS9 and OSX Carbon, the elements are UInt64:
|
| struct FSCatalogInfo {
| [...]
|     UInt64                          dataLogicalSize;
|     UInt64                          dataPhysicalSize;
|     UInt64                          rsrcLogicalSize;
|     UInt64                          rsrcPhysicalSize;
| [...]
| }
|
| in _Filemodule.c the spec looks to be 32 bit:
|
| static PyObject *FSCatalogInfo_get_dataLogicalSize(FSCatalogInfoObject
| *self, void *closure)
| {
| 	return Py_BuildValue("l", self->ob_itself.dataLogicalSize);
| }
|
| I have, perhaps naively, just changed my local copy to use a BuildValue
| parameter of "L" instead of "l" for each of these get and set methods
| and this has survived my initial testing:
|
| static PyObject *FSCatalogInfo_get_dataLogicalSize(FSCatalogInfoObject
| *self, void *closure)
| {
| 	return Py_BuildValue("L", self->ob_itself.dataLogicalSize);
| }
|
| But my questions are:
|
| Has anyone else seen this?
|
| Does this seem like the right fix?
|
| There is another routine in _Filemodule.c: FSCatalogInfo_tp_init() that
| also seems to hold information relevant to parameter size.  Should this
| be changed as well?
|
| If this is a bug, what's the best procedure to report this?
| Sourceforge?  This mailing list?
|
| I'm porting a MacOS9 application from C++ to python and I expect to be
| seeing a lot of these python macintosh filesystem extensions in the
| near future!
|
| Thanks for any help
|
| Don
|
You're most likely to get a good answer to this question on the
MacPython mailing list--give that a try if you don't get a response here.


- --
Cheers,

Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software - "Tame the Terminal"
http://www.wordtech-software.com
sw at wordtech-software.com
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From deets at web.de  Fri Oct  7 08:12:26 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 05:12:26 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndkcjav.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndkcjav.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1128687145.965133.251150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> It is not about falling back on generic declarartion, it is about
> how such object will be treated. Diez seems to think that
> strongly-typed language can only deal with generic declarations
> by using something that allows circumventing the type system.

No, I don't - now it's you who makes assumptions about what I think. ML
and other FPs show that genericity can be done without circumvening.
Templates and generics in C++ partially do so.
>
> > In other words, you want Python to be strongly-typed, but sometimes you
> > want to allow a reference to be to any object whatsoever. In which case
> > you can't possibly do any sensible type-checking on it, so this new
> > Python+ or whatever you want to call it will suffer from the same
> > shortcomings that C++ and java do, which is to say type checking can't
> > possibly do anything useful when the acceptable type of a reference is
> > specified as ANY.
>
> And you are wrong. The problem with the C void* construct (I'm not that
> familiar with java) is that all type information is lost. When you
> use such a parameter in a function you have no idea what you are
> working with.

You don't know JAVA - I do. And nobody said that it lost that
type-information. It doesn't. Still, errors occur - namely
ClassCastEcxeptions.

That indicates that going back and forth via ANY doesn't necessarily
lose any type information, but the capability of today's type-systems
to keep that information across such a transition. This won't work:

Object foo = A();
B bar = (B) foo;

And please, pretty please don't argue with the simplicity of that
example - think of a bazillion statements between these two, possibly
done with run-time-instantiated classes that weren't known at
compile-time.

> But that doesn't need to be if you have a typesystem with an ANY type.
> Such a type declaration would mean that object of any type could be
> used here. However that doesn't imply that the type information
> of the actual objects used, has to be lost. That type information
> may still be available and usefull for further type checking.

JAVA has that.

> That you and Diez can only think about C, C++ or java constructs
> when I mention an ANY type, is your limitation. It doesn't
> need to be the limitation of a specific type system.

Again: where are the specifics of this system? In your head? Tell us
the gory detail, please.

Diez



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 18 22:26:59 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:26:59 -0400
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <WKmdnXS_6eREM8jeRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

Xah Lee wrote:
> If you think i have a point, ...

You have neither that, nor a clue.

(Newsgroups line trimmed to reduce the effects of cross-posting trolls.)

-Peter


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 18:45:47 2005
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 15:45:47 -0700
Subject: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2230.1129666797.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2224.1129656465.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129663697.620665.99040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1129666797.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129675547.108377.246320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Chris Lambacher wrote:
> > * Usage tips/tooltips: Also something I found in PythonWin. During the
> > writing of the method, a little tip box pops up advising me what the
> > inputs are for a method or an instance construction for a class. Very
> > nice, very productive.
> VIm 7 may support that out of the box since there were a lot of supporter
> votes for it:
> http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php

It will, Omni Complete (akin to "Intellisense" and such) is already in
the Vim 7 tree.



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 14:26:29 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:26:29 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <q5psl1dgpmjrui33rn193a4h7pilkcf4i0@4ax.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
	<1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<q5psl1dgpmjrui33rn193a4h7pilkcf4i0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130264789.562249.153310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I have setup multiple threads and a queue...which is working pretty
good.  But I have one other issue...I have a new thread (since it is
different issue) here:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/ec81d8982d1a0130

if you get chance, would you mind checking that out.

Thanks!



From myles at geocities.com  Tue Oct  4 01:47:44 2005
From: myles at geocities.com (Myles Strous)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 22:47:44 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86y85ahs1j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128404864.966640.323710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> You don't need to install special hardware to get that. There are a
> number of pieces of hardware that you can find in a modern computer
> that may have a unique serial number you can use as a
> dongle. Possibilities include a CPU serial number, an HD serial
> number, and the MAC address of any network cards: ethernet, wireless,
> and apparently FireWire drivers have them. People have used all of
> them in the past.

What's more, Tim Golden's wmi module (see
http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html) makes getting at these
numbers very easy:

import wmi
c = wmi.WMI ()
for thingy in c.Win32_NetworkAdapter():
  print "Network Adaptor", thingy.MACAddress
for thingy in c.Win32_Processor():
    print "Processor", thingy.ProcessorId
for thingy in c.Win32_BIOS():
    print "BIOS", thingy.SerialNumber
for thingy in c.Win32_BaseBoard():
    print "BaseBoard", thingy.SerialNumber
for thingy in c.Win32_SystemEnclosure():
    print "System Enclosure", thingy.SerialNumber
for thingy in c.Win32_DiskDrive():
    print "Disk Drive", thingy.PNPDeviceID
for thingy in c.Win32_PhysicalMedia():
    print "Physical Media", thingy.SerialNumber

Regards, Myles.



From david at jotax.com  Fri Oct 28 03:21:28 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 00:21:28 -0700
Subject: Counting Threads
In-Reply-To: <m5a3m151nfhnk249jvi38ao3v34uusqqq5@4ax.com>
References: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130435796.917475.295830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<N9-dnbE-8qTHtfzeRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
	<1130456316.569328.323480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<m5a3m151nfhnk249jvi38ao3v34uusqqq5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130484088.324170.269810@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Sorry Denis - but could you give me an example.  I can't for the life
of me see how the syntax for that would go.



From usenet at eikepreuss.de  Fri Oct 28 04:11:17 2005
From: usenet at eikepreuss.de (Eike Preuss)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:11:17 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djoifk$esc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pjv133-pjn.ln1@mail.binaryfoundry.ca>
	<djlule$gkd$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s8t89FmdnriU1@individual.net>
	<djoifk$esc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <3se4jbFnjch1U1@individual.net>

David Schwartz wrote:
> "Eike Preuss" <usenet at eikepreuss.de> wrote in message 
> news:3s8t89FmdnriU1 at individual.net...
> 
> 
>>>    Right, except that's utterly absurd. If every vendor takes their tiny
>>>cut of the 95%, a huge cut of the 5% is starting to look *REALLY* good.
> 
> 
>>Sure, that would be true if the market would be / would have been really
>>global. In practice if you have a shop you have a limited 'region of
>>influence'. Optimally you are the only shop in this region that sells
>>the stuff, or perhaps there are a few shops that compete with you. Lets
>>say in your region are two shops competing with you, and you must decide
>>wether to sell product A (95%) or B (5%), but you may not sell both.
>>Decision 1: Sell A, share the 95% of the local market with two -> about
>>32% of the local market for all of you, if all perform equally good
>>Decision 2: Sell B -> you get the 5% of the market, the others 47% each
>>
>>This calculation is probably still a very bad approximation of the
>>truth, but things are definitely not as easy as you state them.
> 
> 
>     It depends upon how different the products are and how easy it is to 
> shop out of your local market. If the products are equally good and 
> reasonably interchangeable and it's hard to shop out of your local market, 
> then you're right. The more the smaller product is better than the larger 
> product, the less interchangeable they are, and the easier it is to shop out 
> of your local market, the more wrong you are.
> 
>     How often do you hear, "I'd like to use Linux, but I just can't get 
> ahold of it"?
> 
>     And how many people do you hear saying, "I'd like to use Linux, but I'm 
> not willing to shell out the bucks to buy it since I already bought Windows 
> with my computer".
> 
>     On the other hand, where you might be right is in the possibility that 
> Microsoft's lock on the market prevented other companies from making 
> operating systems at all. That is, that had Microsoft used different 
> policies, other companies would have introduced operating systems to compete 
> with Microsoft, and we'd all have better operating systems for it. If 
> Microsoft's conduct was legal, this argument establishes that the conduct 
> was necessary.
> 
>     DS
> 
> 

Yes, as I said: It is much more complicated than your beautiful argument
'well, then, taking a huge portion of 5% would be much more preferable
anyway' suggests.


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Sun Oct  9 14:04:11 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:04:11 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy a ?crit :
> Dave wrote:
> 
>> Hello All,
>>  
>> I would like to gather some information on Python's runtime 
>> performance. As far as I understand, it deals with a lot of string 
>> objects. Does it require a lot string processing during program 
>> execution? How does it handle such time-consuming operations? Is there 
>> a way to find out how many string operations (perhaps in the 
>> underlying system) ) it does during program execution?
> 
> 
> Do you want to know how many internal string operations are done inside 
> the Python interpreter? I believe it is not a useful information. There 
> are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.
> 
> For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602
> 

A benchmark stating that Python is interpreted is bullshit.

>   Les
> 


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Wed Oct 26 09:26:39 2005
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:26:39 +0200
Subject: wxPython import error
In-Reply-To: <cdOdnYjtravwBMDeRVn-tA@comcast.com>
References: <cdOdnYjtravwBMDeRVn-tA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <435f83f3$0$8491$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>

contact at ljbsoftware.com ha scritto:
> I have tried several times to install wxPython on Fedora Core 2.  The
> installation seems to go fine (from sources), but when I try to import the
> wx module I keep getting the following error:
> 

<-cut->

> Any help or explanation would be greatly appreciated.

For a my customer I had tried a lot of time, but without success to 
compile and install wx 2.6.x
But luckily there is a precompiled package on wxpython.org.
Have you try it?

Michele


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct  3 09:13:43 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:13:43 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43412e88$0$16536$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

James A. Donald wrote:
> James A. Donald:
> 
>> > Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
>> > mysteriously fail to work with no error message.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:11:13 -0400, Jean-Fran?ois Doyon 
> 
>>No, the error message will be pretty clear actually :)
> 
> 
> Now why, I wonder,  does this loop never end :-)
> 	egold = 0
> 	while egold < 10:
> 		ego1d = egold+1
> 

A more pythonic style would be:

egold = 0
while egold < 10:
  ego1d += 1

And that one raises a name error !-)


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 23:07:47 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:07:47 -0700
Subject: Opaque documentation
References: <mailman.2676.1130512412.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130513632.359922.113550@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86wtjxeahk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h55rti.1yu9cz318dg815N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

> "Ben Sizer" <kylotan at gmail.com> writes:
> > Documentation is often a problem with Python and its libraries, sadly.
> > The same almost certainly goes for most open source projects.
> 
> You over-specified the last clause.  It should say "most software
> projects."

You over-specified the last clause.  It should say "most projects."


Alex


From michaelschneider at fuse.net  Thu Oct  6 12:33:38 2005
From: michaelschneider at fuse.net (Michael Schneider)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:33:38 -0400
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <434551E2.5090109@fuse.net>

Take a look at:

http://wingware.com/

It is only $35.00 for an IDE. (30 day free eval version)

I use eclipse for java, and have become quite fond of tab completion.

Mike

CppNewB wrote:
> I am absolutely loving my experience with Python.  Even vs. Ruby, the syntax 
> feels very clean with an emphasis on simplification.
> 
> My only complaint is that there doesn't appear to be a great commercial IDE 
> for the language.  I've tried Komodo, etc and they are nice applications, 
> but they don't feel like they give me the "power" like a Visual Studio or 
> Delphi (I wish I could articulate better the differences).    Finding a 
> descent GUI builder has been a challenge as well.  Most of them have support 
> for Dialogs, but what about more complex UI's?  I may need a resizable frame 
> within a resizable frame? I haven''t found a GUI builder with a great feel 
> yet.
> 
> Other than that, my experience has been wonderful.  Even after my 
> complaints, I plan on sticking with Python for a while. 
> 
> 


From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Thu Oct 13 15:52:21 2005
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:52:21 GMT
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
Message-ID: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>

XPN (X Python Newsreader) is a multi-platform newsreader with Unicode
support. It is written with Python+GTK. It has features like
scoring/actions, X-Face and Face decoding, muting of quoted text,
newsrc import/export, find article and search in the body, spoiler
char/rot13, random taglines and configurable attribution lines.

You can find it on:

http://xpn.altervista.org/index-en.html

or

http://sf.net/projects/xpn


Changes in this release:

    *  improved support for outgoing/draft articles, now is possible to
       re-edit queued articles.
    *  added a simple SSL connection support (no certificates checks)
    *  added multipart article support (no binary attachments support)
    *  added German translation (thanks to Rene Fischer)
    *  fixed a bug that caused crashes with strange Date fields
    *  fixed a bug in newsrc importing, now is alse possible to import
       not standard newsrc files like the Xnews ones.
    *  fixed a bug in the newsrc system that caused a crash with groups
       containings lots of articles
    *  a lot of little bug-fixes and little enhancements

XPN is translated in Italian French and German, if you'd like to
translate it
in your language and you are familiar with gettext and po-files
editing please contact me (xpn at altervista.org).
-- 
This is not a beer belly. It's a fuel tank for a sex machine.
 
 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 09:01:31 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 06:01:31 -0700
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2590.1130331398.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2590.1130331398.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130331691.558414.93870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Gerhard wrote:
> http://initd.org/pub/software/pysqlite/doc/usage-guide.html

Can I suggest you to use a larger font for the code?It is pretty
difficult to parse with my
current screen resolution. BTW, pysqlite2 is pretty cool ;)

               Michele Simionato



From python at gentoolinux.demon.nl  Wed Oct 19 15:07:32 2005
From: python at gentoolinux.demon.nl (the_crazy88)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:07:32 -0700
Subject: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs
In-Reply-To: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129748852.009676.39830@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

if not os.path.isdir("your_dir_name"):
  makedirs("your_dir_name")



From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 04:50:28 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:50:28 -0700
Subject: cell and row
Message-ID: <1d987df30510250150mb4f0f97y79d6e93c0c0d66ff@mail.gmail.com>

I can not understand the use of "cell" and "row" in the code:

# convert the matrix to a 1D list
matrix = [[13,2,3,4,5],[0,10,6,0,0],[7,0,0,0,9]]
items = [cell for row in matrix for cell in row]
print items


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Sat Oct 15 21:48:12 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:48:12 -0400
Subject: Length of read in in python-gpib
References: <4351a665$0$41142$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4351b136$0$41143$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Further, if I use 131072 (2^17) as the length, I get an error :

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "takedata.py", line 74, in ?
    x=sr.querytrca(srs,1,0,4000,131072)
  File "/home/labmonkey/code/oledpmt/sr830.py", line 62, in querytrca
    trca=sr.read(n)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/Gpib.py", line 22, in read
    self.res = gpib.read(self.id,len)
gpib.error: Read Error: ibrd() failed

Following this, an attempt to run the script again chokes at the first
(harmless - just setting some instrument parameter - ibwrt() fails) gpib
command and then locks the bus, freezing the whole system unless I reboot
the system. This has happened twice.

I am using the Agilent82357a USB to GPIB convertor. Have used it for
numerous purposes with the same setup, but the library seems to be choking
on this new application. The instrument I am trying to use is an SR830
lockin amplifier.


From gregpinero at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 14:03:50 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:03:50 -0400
Subject: NYLUG meeting: The Python Object Model with Alex Martelli &
	Google(open bar and food!)
In-Reply-To: <1129312792.c8c0370da34fd63e5cace1fe6133aff9@teranews>
References: <mailman.2077.1129308291.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129312792.c8c0370da34fd63e5cace1fe6133aff9@teranews>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510141103i162034a1x8009b9123d041717@mail.gmail.com>

>
> A reasonable question ...



What date is it ? It isn't mentioned at the web site either.
>
> George
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de  Fri Oct 21 20:37:34 2005
From: uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Daniel_Sch=FCle?=)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:37:34 +0200
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djbqfm$ph8$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

maybe you should look at subprocess module

I have one expamle, this is Linux though

 >>> import subprocess as sp
 >>> p1 = sp.Popen(["ls", "-l"], stdout = sp.PIPE)
 >>> p2 = sp.Popen(["wc", "-c"], stdin = p1.stdout, stdout = sp.PIPE)
 >>> print p2.stdout.read()
     226

hth, Daniel



From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Thu Oct 13 22:57:11 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:57:11 -0300
Subject: CSV module and Mac excel format problem
In-Reply-To: <1129255820.418348.24070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <372F951A-3C5E-11DA-9C8A-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

Hi. I have had good success with CSV module but recently came across 
problem with reading excel from Mac Office.  The trouble is with line 
endings.  Instead of \r\n you have just \r and the file as a whole 
appears as a single line. CSV coughs and provides this exception:

_csv.Error: newline inside string

Saving as Windows (text) in Mac Office solves this but I don't 
necessarily want to force users to save this way just to avoid 
modifying my code. There is a lineterminator in the package.  Adding 
parameter lineterminator='\r' did not correct the problem.

The way I am reading tab delimited to dictionary:

	lines = sample.readlines()
	headers = csv.reader(lines, delimiter='\t').next()
	rows = csv.DictReader(lines, headers, delimiter='\t')
	for row in rows:
		print row

Regards,
David


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Oct 12 19:41:39 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:41:39 +0100
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xfyr9hv13.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
	<7xfyr9hv13.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510130038510.19197@urchin.earth.li>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, it was written:

> Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:
>
>> Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would 
>> be a lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be 
>> faster, more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.
>
> The next PyPy sprint (this week I think) is going to focus partly on GC.

Good stuff!

>> Hmm. Maybe it wouldn't make extensions easier or more reliable. You'd 
>> still need some way of figuring out which variables in C-land held 
>> pointers to objects; if anything, that might be harder, unless you want 
>> to impose a horrendous JAI-like bondage-and-discipline interface.
>
> I'm not sure what JAI is (do you mean JNI?)

Yes. Excuse the braino - JAI is Java Advanced Imaging, a component whose 
horribleness exceed even that of JNI, hence the confusion.

> but you might look at how Emacs Lisp does it.  You have to call a macro 
> to protect intermediate heap results in C functions from GC'd, so it's 
> possible to make errors, but it cleans up after itself and is generally 
> less fraught with hazards than Python's method is.

That makes a lot of sense.

tom

-- 
That's no moon!


From shkelley at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 09:22:47 2005
From: shkelley at gmail.com (shkelley at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 06:22:47 -0700
Subject: pushing python to multiple windows machines
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2357.1129895748.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2357.1129895748.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129900967.169902.5500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hey tim -

Thanks for you input.  I'm looking at it from the Windows perspective
of needing to push a python interpreter out to multiple machines.  I'll
check out Moveable Python as you suggested.

thanks
-shawn



From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Thu Oct  6 14:09:08 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:09:08 -0600
Subject: date reformatting
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F18@slcimail1.slcgov.com>


Anyone aware of existing code to turn a date string "8-15-05" into the
number 20050815?

The dateutil module has a parse method that looks perfect, I downloaded
and unzipped it, but could figure out how to install it.  I using
windows XP and py2.4.  

Any ideas?


Kev



From franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at  Mon Oct 24 05:22:36 2005
From: franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:22:36 +0200
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <nq9pl1l0sv5okol1a03saug65568pl82j1@4ax.com>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:54:38 +1000, microsnot
<microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com> wrote:

>I'm new to Python but am wondering what IDE Python developers use? 

I use DrPython ;)

>I use Mac
>OS X 10.4.2. I have PythonIDE which comes with MacPython but I don't think
>that has even rudimentary "intellisense". 

DrPython has a "Code Completition" plugin.
It combines "Autocompletion" and "Calltips"


-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 16 18:58:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:58:59 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<43518dc6.95550404@news.oz.net>
	<vc05l11nqdfbs71u20k4fi1kcop8lpus4t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86d5m5132k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:24:21 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote or
> quoted :
>>How about pdf?
> My complaint with it is it is Adobe proprietary. This make the tools
> very expensive. 

No, it isn't. The standard is publicly available, so anyone can write
tools that produce and/or manipulate PDF. Lots of people do. Pretty
much any WP or DP package worth using will generate PDF at out of the
box - and some of those are free.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 10:12:34 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 07:12:34 -0700
Subject: win32 process information, using win32 extension
Message-ID: <1129903954.839508.298270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

i need to get information about the processes running on a windows pc
(98, 2k, xp)

i can get the pid's using, win32process.EnumProcesses()...and I can get
a handle on a process using an id..such as

handle = win32api.OpenProcess(win32con.PROCESS_QUERY_INFORMATION, 0,
pids[0])

..but how can i get the name of the process, path to process, etc.  I
have the win32 extensions (pywin32) on python 2.4.

thanks.



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:22:24 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:22:24 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>>                            Microsoft was not going to let a business
>> parasitically use Windows to build a business that touted the
>> advantages of competing products.

> Well, it should have, because that's what manufacturers of operating
> systems, washing machines, and so on, are supposed to do. And so says
> the legal system. Attempting to subvert market economics like that is
> illegal.

    Actually, there are washing machines that are only available in 
particular stores. I believe Kenmore washing machines, for example, are only 
available wholesale as part of a franchise deal. I don't know why you think 
that's an attempt to subvert market economics, it's actually just a normal 
part of the way the market works.

>> (Just as Burger King corporate will not you sell Big
>> Macs in the same store in which you sell Whoppers.)

> They're not obliged to. There is no comparison. Not even the same kind
> of business in the abstract.  Try :- Cow Meat Inc.  will see that no
> supplier will ever sell you cow meat again if you also sell vegetables
> in your totally independent restaurant.

    So you are saying Microsoft wouldn't sell Windows wholesale to business 
A if totally independent business B wouldn't pay them a per-system-sold 
royalty? That makes no sense.

    The comparison is perfect. Microsoft made Windows available wholesale 
for resale only as part of a franchise-style agreement. This is a completely 
typical thing to do. (Though I don't think it's typical for operating 
systems, I'd be very surprised if it hadn't been done with an operating 
system before. Sun seems to have similar restrictions now, in fact.)

    DS




From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct 13 18:20:58 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:20:58 -0500
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <mark-0C9352.17025313102005@news.isp.giganews.com>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mark-0C9352.17025313102005@news.isp.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <CFDE55D6-0B89-4E1A-BAB9-5A286A0EF2BA@sbcglobal.net>

This improved appearance has been a nice thing to see, but looks were  
never really the reason I decided to leave Tkinter. It's much more  
the fundamental issues of Tk, plus the fact that Tkinter was never  
really "completed" (not a comment on the original author--there's  
only so much one person can do) that has made me decide to leave Tk  
behind.

As an example of the worst Tk issues (at least for what I was doing):

1) Marks screw up when they come to occupy the position. For example,  
let's say { symbolizes a text mark with right gravity, and } a text  
mark with left gravity. Remember that marks all have names, so they  
can all be referred to uniquely. Now construct some text like this:  
{here} is {some}  marked {text}. Delete all the text. The marks still  
exist. Now, try to recreate the original text by inserting the  
appropriate words at the appropriate marks. It won't work for two  
reasons, the worst of which is that marks that come to occupy the  
same index in the text can actually change their relative order.

2) There are no abstract references; everything is referred to by its  
string name. This causes serious problems with name clashes and code  
abstraction. Tkinter hides some of this, but not enough.

3) Window nesting is completely determined by window naming, which  
only compounds the problem mentioned in (2).

I don't really mean to diss Tk, I just get so frustrated when I think  
of what it could have been...

Thanks,
Ken
On 13-Oct-05, at 4:02 PM, Mark Roseman wrote:

> People should probably be more aware of work that has been going on  
> with
> Tk recently (after a fairly long hiatus) in terms of greatly improving
> its appearance, adding theming, and more.  It's worth checking out,  
> and
> of course, if there's a way to help get some of these changes into
> Tkinter, the Tk folks would I'm sure be helpful.
>
> Here's a portion of a note that Jeff Hobbs posted to the Ruby group
> recently, on a similar topic:
>
>

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From kcoffie at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  5 17:26:51 2005
From: kcoffie at hotmail.com (k8)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 14:26:51 -0700
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
In-Reply-To: <3qitrdFf7cpaU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3qitrdFf7cpaU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1128547611.050408.295600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thank you thank you thank you- The windows command line sol worked.

-k8



From christian.hausknecht at tu-clausthal.de  Thu Oct 13 11:09:53 2005
From: christian.hausknecht at tu-clausthal.de (Christian Hausknecht)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:09:53 +0200
Subject: cgi python
References: <1129215225.778017.20340@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diltc7$348$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de>

Python_it wrote:

> I going to use the cgi-handler (mod_python):
> 
> http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-3.2.2b/doc-html/hand-cgi.html
> 
> 
> If I test a simply py script it works
> 
> code:
> ===========
> print "Content-type: text/html\n"
> print """
> <html>
> <body>
> <h1>TEST</h1>
> </body>
> </html>
> """
> ============
> 
> But if I test a py script with cgi comments (import cgi):
> 
> Part of the code
> ============
> import cgi
> 
> #get HTTP query parameters
> query = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
> #Get the selected year and month
> selectedYear = int(query["year"].value)
> selectedMonth = int(query["x"].value) + 1
> 
> #Get the monthly revenue
> monthlyRevenue = float(query["value"].value)
> ============
> 
> I get the following error:
> 
> errormessage:
> ==========================
> Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.cgihandler"
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> 
>   File "C:\Program
> Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\apache.py", line 299, in
> HandlerDispatch
>     result = object(req)
> 
>   File "C:\Program
> Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\cgihandler.py", line 96, in
> handler
>     imp.load_module(module_name, fd, path, desc)
> 
>   File "C:/Program Files/Apache
> Group/Apache2/htdocs/clue/modules/templates\clickpie.py", line 9, in ?
>     selectedYear = int(query["year"].value)
> 
>   File "C:\Program Files\Python24\Lib\cgi.py", line 559, in __getitem__
>     raise KeyError, key
> 
> KeyError: 'year'
> 
> 
> Who can help me?
There is no Parameter 'year' in the Format-String sent by the Webserver!
You can test it like this:
if(query.has_key("yaer")):
        xyz = query["year"].value

If you want to get a Parameter called 'year', you must call the cgi-Script
like this:
http://host/path-to-cgi-dir/script.py?year=2005

Another method is, to use a form in the calling html-Page and put a hidden
value into it.

Ciao,
Christian



From mrosenstihl at macnews.de  Tue Oct 11 17:34:21 2005
From: mrosenstihl at macnews.de (Markus Rosenstihl)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:34:21 +0200
Subject: Nicer way of strip and replace?
Message-ID: <dihb4t$t43$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,
I wonder if i can make this  nicer:

In my case a list is created from a bill which is a tab seperated file 
and each line looks like this:

"Verbindungen Deutsche Telekom vom 03.08.2005 bis 
10.08.2005"	"ISDN"	"Deutsche Telekom 
AG"	"Rufnummer"	"123456789"	"3"	"Verbindungen zu T-Mobile      
AktivPlus xxl sunday"	"19483"	"19"	"0,1719"	"3,27"	"16"


I create the list in the following way:

rechnung_raw=open('filename', 'r').readlines()

for line in rechnung_raw:
	the_line=string.split(line, '\t')
	rechnung.append(the_line)

Now, I have a loop which does basically:

for element in anotherlist:	 #anotherlist contains line numbers
	euro=euro + float(string.replace(string.strip(rechnung[element][10], 
'"'), ',' , '.'))



I replace commata with dots, then delete leading/trailing "s then add 
to a sum after converting it to a float.
This looks ugly (I htink)  and I wonder if there is a nicer way to 
strip commata and change the comma to a dot already when reading in.
Or should i do it with a shell script before processing in python?

Regards
Markus




From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct 12 19:26:11 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:26:11 -0500
Subject: File compare
In-Reply-To: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434D9B93.7090300@websafe.com>

Sounds a little like "homework", but I'll help you out.
There are lots of ways, but this works.

import sys
class fobject:
    def __init__(self, inputfilename):
        try:
            fp=open(inputfilename, 'r')
            self.lines=fp.readlines()
        except IOError:
            print "Unable to open and read inputfilename=%s" % inputfilename
            sys.exit(3)

        self.datadict={}
        for line in self.lines:
            line=line.strip()
            line=line.strip("'")
            key, values=line.split(' ',1)
            self.datadict[key]=values

        return

    def keys(self):
        return self.datadict.keys()

    def compare(self, otherobject):
        keys=otherobject.keys()
        match=0
        for key in keys:
            if self.datadict[key] == otherobject.datadict[key]: match+=1

        return float(match)/float(len(keys))

if __name__=="__main__":
    f1=fobject(r'f:\syscon\python\zbkup\f1.txt')
    f2=fobject(r'f:\syscon\python\zbkup\f2.txt')
    print f1.compare(f2)


Larry Bates


PyPK wrote:
> I have two files
> file1 in format
> <id> <val1> <test1> <test2>
> 'AA' 1 T T
> 'AB' 1 T F
> 
> file2 same as file1
> <id> <val1> <test1> <test2>
> 'AA' 1 T T
> 'AB' 1 T T
> 
> Also the compare should be based on id. So it should look for line
> starting with id 'AA' (for example) and then match the line  so if in
> second case.
> 
> so this is what I am looking for:
> 1. read both files.
> 2. read id of first line in file1 check if it matches with the same id
> in file2.
> 3. repeat step 2 for all lines in file1.
> 4. return a percent of success to failure. ie if one line matches and
> one lines does'nt then return 0.5 or 50%
> 
> I wrote a boolean version ..as a start
> 
> def getdata(f):
>     try:
>         f1 = open(f,'r')
>         data=[]
>         for eachline in f1.readlines():
>            data.append(re.split("",
>               re.sub('\n','',strip(re.split('\s\s+',eachline)[0]))))
>         return data
>     except IOError:
>         raise("Invalid File Input")
> 
> if __name__=='__main__':
> 
>         data1 = getdata('file1')
>         data2 = getdata('file2')
> 
>         if data1 == data2:
>             print "True"
>         else:
>             print "False"
> 
> hope I am clear...
> 


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Oct 22 11:43:46 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:43:46 +0200
Subject: PID and/or handle assistance. . .?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2414.1129995531.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2414.1129995531.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3rv51hFlkvakU1@uni-berlin.de>

Michael Williams wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone explain how to both spawn processes from PYTHON and  acquire 
> their process IDs or a handle to them for use later?  I'd  also like to 
> acquire the stdout of each spawned process.

Google dead today? Well, check out the modules subprocess, popen2 and os.

Regards,

Diez


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 08:28:05 2005
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Luis M. Gonzalez)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 05:28:05 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
Message-ID: <1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Boa Constructor, Iron Python etc... it seems all these projects get started,
> but never finished.

I don't know Boa (never liked it, never used it), but you could try
PythonCard: much higher level, easier and more productive. As for
Ironpython seems to be moving full steam towards a stable release
(current version is 0.9.2). And once it's ready, integration with other
MS technologies will be assured, so you shouldn't be concerned about
that.
If not Ironpython, Boo (which could be considered almost an static
version of Python for .NET) would be a great choice. It is already
integrated to SharpDevelop and soon it will be compliant with .NET 2.0.

It seems your concerns are all related to the future, and I think that
no matter what implementation of python you use, the future looks
brighter than ever, because the same code base will run on .NET, Pypy
(which will support many platforms) and java (through Jython) .

What other language gives you so many options?



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 23 14:03:09 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:03:09 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

entropy <entropy at domain.invalid> writes:
> entropy at domain.invalid wrote...
>> axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote...
>> > In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>> > > "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
>> > >> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
>> > >> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
>> > >> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
>> > >> property, only they call it "property tax".
>> > >    I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to 
>> > > live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me 
>> > > know.
>> > Why would you say that - Mike Meyer made a point to which you have
>> > obviously no answer. Or do you deny that his comments on this matter
>> > of property are true?
>> Methinks David simply missed that Mike was being facetious.  (Irony 
>> and facetiousness don't translate well into print, as Frank Zappa 
>> once noted.)
> Uh, you _were_ being facetious there, weren't you Mike?

No, I wasn't. The statements I made are true: the government charges
you taxes on your property, and in most places restricts the changes
you can make to it and the things you can do in it. I used the words
"rent" and "ownership" in an unconventional way to emphasize the
point.

The conventional usage of "ownwership" ignores these kinds of
facts. So you can talk about "your" house even if you're renting it,
or if the bank still owns most of the house. There are political
groups that are unhappy with these facts, and like to point out the
inconsistencies in the usage of the word "ownership". See <URL:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-propertyrights.htm > and <URL:
http://magazine.14850.com/9307/politics.html > for examples of this.

David claimed that everyone had a right to do whatever they wanted
with their property. This is simply false throughout most of the
civilized world - zoning laws control what kinds of business you can
run on your property, various laws designed to control the looks of
the town dictate what you can do to the exterior or lawn, flood and
earthquake laws state what kinds of structural changes you can make,
and so on. I took the view of a political extremist to point out that
he was wrong. David predictably used that to tar me as an extremist
from the other end of the spectrum.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.



From dave at dbmdata.com  Mon Oct 31 21:25:57 2005
From: dave at dbmdata.com (David Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:25:57 -0500
Subject: Where to save classes? How to access classes?
Message-ID: <4366D235.8040702@dbmdata.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to get into the object oriented aspect of Python. If I create 
a custom class (in it's own file), how do I access that class in a 
function in a different file? In Java there's the notion of a CLASSPATH, 
where you can tell the compiler to look for classes. Is there something 
similar to this in Python?

Thanks,

Dave


From jesper.olsen at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:34:29 2005
From: jesper.olsen at gmail.com (Jesper)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 08:34:29 -0700
Subject: readline installation problem
References: <dhetdv$s4u$1@ruby.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <1128785669.063610.256760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Jian,

I just struggled with the same problem - seems the python 2.4.2 does
not recognise readline 5

I finally "solved" the problem by installing readline 4.2, and
explicitly pointing out to configure where the readline library is

./configure --with-libs=/usr/local/lib/libreadline.a

That finally made it work ...

Cheers
Jesper



From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 02:54:00 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 23:54:00 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Nyo1f.805$PA1.95800@monger.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <1128668040.818787.73690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

thanks Leif.  poor question on my part.

I had been using

    glob.glob(path)==[]

and was looking for something more readable, hence

    os.system('[ -e %s ]' % path )

but that doesn't seem like a good idiom for crossplatform.

I thought there may either be a way to escape the wildcards, or an
alternative to os.access, or ....

any othr ideas?



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Oct 12 07:09:01 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:09:01 +0200
Subject: bizarro world
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129071507.829655.252340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1934.1129096725.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wzvf03801e.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Bryan <belred at gmail.com> (B) wrote:

>B> omg!!! wow!!! after reading this i feel like i just stepped in to some
>B> bizarro world.  

So why do you have to repeat the whole thing?? I have kill-filed XL, and
now you put the message in my face. Please don't react to this drivel.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 13:37:28 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:37:28 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xoe5asw3t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djr38m$c4j$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>> Of course it's legal for non-monopoly companies.  You seem to think
>>> Microsoft's illegal monopoly is an irrelevant detail.  It is not.

>>     What is an "illegal monopoly"?
>
 It's what Microsoft still stands convicted of having.
>
> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/msdoj/

    I don't see anything there about what an "illegal monopoly" is or might 
be. Perhaps you could clarify. What do you think you mean when you say 
"illegal monopoly"?

    DS




From stijndesaeger at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 06:46:45 2005
From: stijndesaeger at gmail.com (vdrab)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 03:46:45 -0700
Subject: pywordnet install problems
In-Reply-To: <qsudnbksifzcxaDeRVn-jg@comcast.com>
References: <1128057470.285356.211160@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<qsudnbksifzcxaDeRVn-jg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1128163605.623632.96660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

hello Steve,

I had WordNet 2.0 installed but just now I tried it with 1.7.1 as well
and the result was the same. It's a shame, glossing over the pywordnet
page really made me want to give it a try.
Are there any workarounds you can recommend ?
I had a quick look at the wordnet.py file, and it looks readable enough
to try and fiddle around with it, but if possible I'd like to avoid
having to mess with the source file.
Is there any other person / list I can ask for help on this?

thanks a lot.
vdrab.



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Tue Oct 11 09:29:22 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:29:22 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<mailman.1837.1128950861.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1h485kt.1bru0if72epwrN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<dig6mc$20k$1@domitilla.aioe.org> <digci9$c10$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<1129037036.712254.94830@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <digenj$fcm$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

George Sakkis wrote:
>>Function name is perhaps not the best one. It occurs to me that this
>>is the GROUP BY in SQL so perhaps a different name is better, but
>>then again this might be moot if such a already exists somewhere :)
> 
> 
> Amazing, you keep reinventing things, even with the exact same name :)
> 
> from itertools import imap,groupby
> from operator import itemgetter
> 
> for fruit,group in groupby(fruits, itemgetter(0)):
>     print fruit, "has a sum of", sum(imap(itemgetter(1),group))
> 
> For this to work as intended, fruits has to be already sorted by the
> same key given to grouby; otherwise just replace fruits with
> sorted(fruits, itemgetter(0)).
> 
> By the way, read all the functions in the itertools module
> (http://docs.python.org/lib/itertools-functions.html), it will save you
> a lot of time.
> 
> George
> 

Itertools, meh, there's that wheel again :)

Didn't know about this one so thank you :)

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From shafranov at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 15:54:27 2005
From: shafranov at gmail.com (shafran)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 12:54:27 -0700
Subject: unittest of file-reading function
In-Reply-To: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>
References: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>
Message-ID: <1129665266.957444.19460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

You can use tempfile.mktemp(), then write test contents to this temp
file,
pass it to your function, unlink tempfile.

you can create / unlink temp file in setUp() / tearDown() methods.

Alexander.



From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 01:46:05 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Clint Norton)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 22:46:05 -0700
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
In-Reply-To: <86hdbqjfbp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<8664s6kx8l.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1128906992.565860.327040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86hdbqjfbp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128923165.612313.124290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well, I meant python modules offcourse ;-)



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:25:20 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:25:20 -0700
Subject: A way to set levels of access to users
Message-ID: <1129325120.794686.196210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I have this table on a database:

Table: user

coduser | username | password | securitylevel
   1    | fcumana  |<SHA1pass>| 0123456789qwe

where "securitylevel" is a string where the presence of each character
is a permited key for running certain functions.

For example:

functions.py
-------------------------------------------------
securitylevel=6
def function1():
    print "This is the function 'function1'"

...and/or other functions
-------------------------------------------------

Because securitylevel=6 exists in securitylevel in the database, the
user running it is allowed to access.

The lack here is that if there's a lot of functions and users, and I
want to enable certain users to access certain functions, then, it will
get confusing for maintain it.

Any help?

Daniel



From greg.steffensen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 01:24:49 2005
From: greg.steffensen at gmail.com (gsteff)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 22:24:49 -0700
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129267489.263656.93610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've used wxpython and pygtk, and have a strong preference for pygtk.
wxpython has some advantages: it has better OSX support (widgets look
native, and it doesn't require the installation of the Fink x server),
and better win32 support (a few gtk widgets, such as menus, don't look
quite native on gtk, and multithreading with pygtk on win32 is
problematic).  But pygtk has better documentation, a MUCH cleaner api,
integration with the Glade GUI designer (wxpython has wxglade, but its
not in the same league), and a richer widget set.  In addition, top
itself is in the top tier of free software projects; wxwidgets is not
as mature, and its development is not as active.

So, if you're trying to choose between those two, go with wxpython if
you need OSX support, or have specific issues with pygtk's win32
support.  In all other cases, I'd reccomend pygtk.

Greg



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 07:40:37 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:40:37 +0100
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <4358d112$0$187$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<mailman.2341.1129880858.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4358d112$0$187$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <djak3g$53n$2@sea.gmane.org>

Christian wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>::::::::::::::
>>one.py
>>::::::::::::::
>>import os
>>os.environ['STEVE'] = "You are the man"
>>os.system("python two.py")
>>print "Ran one"
>>::::::::::::::
>>two.py
>>::::::::::::::
>>import os
>>print "STEVE is", os.environ['STEVE']
>>print "Ran two"
>>[sholden at headrat tmp]$ python one.py
>>STEVE is You are the man
>>Ran two
>>Ran one
>>[sholden at headrat tmp]$
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>regards
>> Steve
> 
> 
> Thanks Steve, you're quite right, you are the man. And thanks to all the 
> rest of you for your kind help and patient understanding. I have learned 
> quite a lot and is about to consider my self advanced to the status of 
> Python newbie.
> 
> So here is my final question:
> Do I call the .sh script with a .py script like this:
> 
> os.system("/path/to/the/script/startupscript.sh")

Time you answered your own questions by trying things at the interactive 
interpreter prompt!

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 14 14:32:38 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 11:32:38 -0700
Subject: Searching files in directories
References: <1129311080.579292.112990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434FF2C4.3040307@websafe.com>
Message-ID: <1129314758.810705.101200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

"Larry Bates" wrote:

> Not tested but should be close:
>
> import os
> import shutil
>
> files = ['file1.txt']
> source_directory      = '/tmp/source/'
> destination_directory = '/tmp/destination/'
>
> for file in files:
>     src=os.path.join(source_directory, file
>     dst=os.path.join(destination_directory, file
>     if os.path.exists(os.path.join(source_directory, file):
>         shutil.copy(src, dst)


Or more succinctly using the path module:

from path import path

files = ['file1.txt']
src_dir = path('/tmp/source/')
dest_dir = path('/tmp/destination/')

for filename in files:
    srcfile = src_dir / filename
    if srcfile.exists():
        srcfile.copy(dest_dir)


George



From peterm at resmed.com.au  Mon Oct 10 00:53:11 2005
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:53:11 +1000
Subject: Python on the Power PC
Message-ID: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi,

I (think I have :-)) installed Python on my Pocket PC (obtained from
http://fore.validus.com/~kashtan/).

There were Tkinter binaries with it so I installed those as well. When I
attempt to run the most simplistic of python programs using Tkinter, I get
an error message stating that Python can't find any tkinter module.

Any ideas what I have done wrong anybody?

Thanks
Peter

import Tkinter

if __name__ == '__main__':
  root = Tkinter.Tk()

  root.title('Hello World?')

  root.mainloop()




From tim at tt1lock.org  Mon Oct 17 08:37:04 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:37:04 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <IoI8Ds.J0s@bath.ac.uk>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote or quoted:

[Microsoft]

> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about browser
> wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion dollar a year
> market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?

Power.  Minshare.  Controlling the planet's gateway to the internet.
That sort of thing.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct 16 11:23:33 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:23:33 +0200
Subject: wxPython & Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2136.1129475504.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <434e8dbf$0$452$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>	<3r8bo1Fi9etjU1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.2051.1129266068.509.python-list@python.org>	<3rf6f4Fj4tqhU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2136.1129475504.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3rf9jlFj8e4kU1@uni-berlin.de>

> I'm sure the Cygwin world would be grateful if you or someone else were 
> to establish the correct build procedure.

For Qt? I found it on the Qt free edition site, and followed the 
instructionbs. Not much to do there. But make sure you have _plenty_ of 
time. It took me _days_ to compile Qt. No idea why MinGW is so darn slow.

Diez


From xah at xahlee.org  Mon Oct 17 17:33:30 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 14:33:30 -0700
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: split a file full path
In-Reply-To: <dj0aan.ac.1@news.isolution.nl>
References: <1129514458.420045.75670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj0aan.ac.1@news.isolution.nl>
Message-ID: <1129584810.302636.181380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> > In Perl, spliting a full path into parts is done like this:

Dr.Ruud wrote:
> And then follows Perl-code that only works with an optional .html
> "extension",

Thanks for the note. I've corrected it here:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/split_fullpath.html

namely:
Note: the second argument to fileparse() is a list of regex. In
particular, you need to escape the dot. Normally, one gives it a value
such as ('\.html', '\.HTML', '\.jpg', '\.JPG'). Yes, it is case
sensitive. If you want to match any extension (that is, the string
after the last dot), use ('\.[^.]+$').

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From wenshengwang at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 15:20:24 2005
From: wenshengwang at gmail.com (Wensheng)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 12:20:24 -0700
Subject: simple AJAX with JSON
Message-ID: <1128367224.695459.31910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I just post a cookbook recipe on simple ajax.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440637

Hope someone find it's useful.

Wensheng Wang



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:52:30 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 13:52:30 -0700
Subject: Popularity of blogging tools used by python programmers
References: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129841550.519444.141030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Well, Python, Zope & Plone hosting are quite popular. However python
based blog software isn't as sexy as let's say blogger.

For SPE I first used a combination of PyDS&pycs.net. It is free for
everyone, but unfortunately not stable enough to my standards.

Luckily I got sponsored by zettai.net, who offer me excellent Zope
hosting. There I use CoreBlog as I wanted consciously to use a python
product.

As a rule of thumb: when you are totally happy with the templates of
prepacked blogs like blogger, then stick with that. But... even though
they look slick, they all look the same. It's a bit the same problem of
flash. So if you really want to modify your blog, you better take a
product which is written in a language you understand. That's the
reason why I like to work with Zope, Plone and CoreBlog.

But I guess a python programmer using other blog systems is not as bad
as a microsoft worker googling for the newest ipod. I'm sure a lot Perl
or Ruby programmers also use mailman for their mailing lists.

Stani

http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/blog
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 10 20:33:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:33:59 -0400
Subject: convert char to byte representation
References: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434AB205.8000304@websafe.com> <11kld1jrulcri13@corp.supernews.com>
	<hOidnRrCJ71eb9feRVn-qw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <86br1w28p4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

[Format recovered from top posting.]

Larry Bates <larry.bates at websafe.com> writes:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2005-10-10, Larry Bates <larry.bates at websafe.com> wrote:
>>>>I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a string with
>>>>its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a char into its byte
>>>>representation. This is to calculate the nmea checksum for gps data.
>> 
>>>ord(c) gives you decimal representation of a character.
>> 
>> While ord(c) is what the OP needs, it doesn't give a decimal
>> represention -- which I guess would be a string like "65" for
>> the ASCII characer "A".  What ord() gives you is an integer
>> object with the value of the character [which the hardware
>> stores in binary on all of the platforms I'm aware of].
>
> I've always read it written that the number that is returned by
> ord(c) is the "decimal" (not hex, not octal) representation of
> the ASCII/UNICODE character that is stored in memory location
> pointed to by variable c.  While the result is an integer (as
> it couldn't really be anything else), I believe that most
> character charts list the number that ord() returns as the
> "decimal representation" of that character (as they normally
> also show the octal and hex values as well).

The value returned by ord is a *number*. That number has a decimal
representation. It also has a hex representation and an octal
representation. These are all strings, and they all represent the same
number. You can't print a number - you can only print characters. So
Python (indeed, most languages) translate the number into a string of
characters that represent the number, using the decimal
representation.  You can use the hex and oct builtins to ask for the
hex and octal representations of that number and print those strings
if you want.

> Probably an "old school" answer on my part.

The decimal representation of ' ' is '32'. Python doesn't think that
that's what ord(' ') returns:

>>> ord(' ') == '32'
False

So I'd say it was "wrong" rather than old school.

On the other hand, if you check ord(' ') against numbers, it doeesn't
care what representation you use, so long as they represent the same
number:

>>> ord(' ') == 0x20
True
>>> ord(' ') == 040
True
>>> ord(' ') == 32
True

Of course you can't read a number any more than you can write one, so
Python kindly translates strings representing numbers into numbers
when itt reads them. This process is often referred to as "reading a
number", but what's actually read is characters.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Mon Oct  3 17:25:37 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:25:37 GMT
Subject: Unicode charmap decoders slow
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-69AACB.23331402102005@news.verizon.net>
	<43410f1b$0$7019$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<*firstname*nlsnews-BBA4DA.12405103102005@news.verizon.net>
	<43419076$0$25143$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-506059.17254703102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <43419076$0$25143$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de>,
 "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> Tony Nelson wrote:
> > I had seen iconv.  Even if my system supports it and it is faster than 
> > Python's charmap decoder, it might not be available on other systems.  
> > Requiring something unusual in order to do a trivial LUT task isn't an 
> > acceptable solution.  If I write a charmap decoder as an extension 
> > module in Pyrex I can include it with the program.  I would prefer a 
> > solution that doesn't even need that, preferably in pure Python.  Since 
> > Python does all the hard wark so fast it certainly could do it, and it 
> > can almost do it with "".translate().
> 
> Well, did you try a pure-Python version yourself?
> 
> table = [chr(i).decode("mac-roman","replace") for i in range(256)]
> 
> def decode_mac_roman(s):
>      result = [table[ord(c)] for c in s]
>      return u"".join(result)
> 
> How much faster than the standard codec is that?

It's .18x faster.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From ajikoe at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 02:08:37 2005
From: ajikoe at gmail.com (ajikoe at gmail.com)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 23:08:37 -0700
Subject: how to make this code faster
Message-ID: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

def f(x,y):
    return math.sin(x*y) + 8 * x
I have code like this:

def main():
    n = 2000
    a = zeros((n,n), Float)
    xcoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
    ycoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))


    for i in range(n):
        for j in range(n):
            a[i,j] = f(xcoor[i], ycoor[j])  # f(x,y) = sin(x*y) + 8*x

    print a[1000,1000]
    pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


I try to make this run faster even using psyco, but I found this still
slow, I tried using java and found it around 8x faster...


public class s1 {


	/**
	 * @param args
	 */
	public static int n = 2000;
	public static double[][] a = new double[n][n];
	public static double [] xcoor = new double[n];
	public static double [] ycoor = new double[n];


	public static void main(String[] args) {
		// TODO Auto-generated method stub
		for (int i=0; i<n; i++){
			xcoor[i] = i/(float)(n);
			ycoor[i] = i/(float)n;
		}

		for (int i=0; i<n; i++){
			for (int j=0; j<n; j++){
				a[i][j] = f(xcoor[i], ycoor[j]);
			}
		}

		System.out.println(a[1000][1000]);

	}
	public static double f(double x, double y){
		return Math.sin(x*y) + 8*x;
	}

}


Can anybody help?

pujo



From kent37 at tds.net  Tue Oct 11 22:16:18 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:16:18 -0400
Subject: are there internal functions for these ?
In-Reply-To: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129081494.725521.198920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434c701c$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

black wrote:
> hi all~
> 
> i wrote some functions for copying and moving files caz' i didnt find
> concret functions within the doc. but i think these operations are
> simple and important so there may be some internal ones i didnt know.
> anyone could figure me out ? 

See the os, os.path and shutil modules for many file operations including copy and move.

Kent


From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 06:57:21 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:57:21 -0700
Subject: ABOUT FIND
Message-ID: <1d987df30510240357r7a557822h9af6d5720da2c8b@mail.gmail.com>

I got confused by the following information from the help for "FIND":
find(s, *args)
 find(s, sub [,start [,end]]) -> in

what does *args mean (especially the '*')?

also, in the sub, why put a comma before start?

what does 'in' mean?


From fccoelho at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 12:33:34 2005
From: fccoelho at gmail.com (Flavio)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 09:33:34 -0700
Subject: updating local()
Message-ID: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

 I heard time and again that you are not _supposed_ to update the
locals dictionary.

Can anyone tell me why, if the following code works, I should not do
this?

#
# Extending Local namespace
#

def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):

	print 'locals:',locals()
	locals().update(args)
	print locals()

e = {'s':3,'e':4}
fun(k=10,v=32,**e)


thanks,

Fl?vio



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 10:54:55 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:54:55 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<1h4xfdx.azxzrkhr5xukN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2521.1130230343.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h4z96t.12ttsrfais6hnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> >> >     class Sic:
> >> >         def getFoo(self): ...
> >> >         def setFoo(self): ...
> >> >         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
> >
> > Sorry for skipping the 2nd argument to setFoo, that was accidental in my
> > post.  The problem here is: class Sic is "classic" ("legacy",
> > "old-style") so property won't really work for it (the setter will NOT
> > trigger when you assign to s.foo and s is an instance of Sic).
> 
> what's slightly confusing is that the getter works, at least until you attempt
> to use the setter:

Oh yes, that IS definitely contributing to the confusion -- which is
part of why I think it makes sense to claim this is a "tricky area".

> (a "setter isn't part of an new-style object hierarchy" exception would have
> been nice, I think...)

Agreed.  Alas, a bit too late now, I fear (until 3.0 when old-style goes
away) -- somebody might be (unwisely but "it-sort-of-works" style)
relying on this behavior.  Hmmm, maybe a WARNING could be given...


Alex


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Oct 24 03:06:48 2005
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:06:48 -0400
Subject: System tray Icon
In-Reply-To: <c1967eb90510221528r59f620fexe606fef05b276192@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c1967eb90510221528r59f620fexe606fef05b276192@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435C8808.2000407@rogers.com>

I have a sample up here:

    http://blog.vrplumber.com/scripts/recordingdevices.py

using wxPython.  The sample application is Linux-specific, but it should 
give you a fairly good idea of how to use the system tray icon control 
in wxPython.

HTH,
Mike

Mike Pippin wrote:

> How would I have an app run with just a system tray Icon??? any help 
> would be greatly appreciated. I have no clue where to start.

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct  4 03:28:02 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 07:28:02 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Op 2005-10-03, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
>>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>> A language where variable have to be declared before use, would allow
>>>> to give all misspelled (undeclared) variables in on go, instead of
>>>> just crashing each time one is encounterd.
>>>
>>> Wrong. It would catch at compile-time those misspellings which do not 
>>> happen to coincide with another declared variable.
>> 
>> Fine, it is still better than python which will crash each time
>> one of these is encountered.
>
> Python doesn't crash when it meets an undeclared variable. It raises an
> exception.

Your nit-picking. For the sake of finding misspelled variables the
difference is irrelevant.

>>> Moreover, it adds a burden on the programmer who has to write all those 
>>> declarations,
>> 
>> So? He has to write all those lines of code too.
>> 
>> People often promote unittesting here. Writing all those unittest is
>> an added burden too. But people think this burden is worth it.
>
> Yes, but there is no evidence that pre-declaration of variables is a
> burden worth carrying. It doesn't catch any errors that your testing
> wouldn't catch anyway.

Maybe not, but it may catch them earlier and may make them easier
to recognize.

Declarations also allow easier writable closures. Since the declaration
happens at a certain scope, the run time can easily find the correct
scope when a variable is rebound.

They also relieve a burden from the run-time, since all variables
are declared, the runtime doesn't has to check whether or not
a variable is accesible, it knows it is.

And if you provide type information with the declaration, more
efficient code can be produced.

>> I think writing declaration is also worth it. The gain is not as
>> much as with unittesting but neither is the burden, so that
>> balances out IMO
>
> Speaking as somebody who spent a long time programming in Pascal, I got
> heartedly sick and tired of having to jump backwards and forwards from
> where I was coding to the start of the function to define variables.

I have programmed a lot in Pascal too and Modula II and other languages.
I never found declarations that much a burden. That you got heartedly sick
of having to use declarations says very little about declarations and
says more about you.

I think language matters shouldn't be setlled by personal preferences.

> It got to the stage that sometimes I'd pre-define variables I thought I
> might need, intending to go back afterwards and delete the ones I didn't
> need. When the programmer is having to to jump through hoops to satisfy
> the compiler, there is something wrong.

Maybe it was your way of working. I never thought I had to go through
hoops to satisfy the compiler. You have to satisfy that compilor anyway,
for the moment I have more problems with colons that have to be put
after an "if", "else" etc than I ever had with declarations.

>>> and worse it adds a burden on everyone reading the code who 
>>> has more lines to read before understanding the code.
>> 
>> Well maybe we should remove all those comments from code too,
>> because all it does is add more lines for people to read.
>
> Well-written comments should give the reader information which is not in
> the code. If the comment gives you nothing that wasn't obvious from the
> code, it is pointless and should be removed.
>
> Variable declarations give the reader nothing that isn't in the code. If I
> write x = 15, then both I and the compiler knows that there is a variable
> called x. It is blindingly obvious. Why do I need to say "define x" first?

Because it isn't at all obvious at which scope that x is. Sure you can
define your language that rebinding is always at local scope, but that
you need to define it so, means it isn't that obvious.

Also the question is not whether or not there is a variable x, the
quesntions whether or not there should be a variable x. That is not
at all that obvious when you write x = 15.

> Pre-defining x protects me from one class of error, where I typed x
> instead of (say) n. That's fine as far as it goes, but that's not
> necessarily an _error_. If the typo causes an error, e.g.:

> def spam(n):
>     return "spam " * x  # oops, typo
>
> then testing will catch it, and many other errors as well. Declaring the
> variable doesn't get me anything I wouldn't already get.

Yes it would have caught this error even before you had to begin
testing.

> But if it doesn't cause an error, e.g.:
>
> def spam(n):
>     if n:
>         return "spam " * n
>     else:
>         x = 0  # oops, typo
>         return "spam " * n
>     
> This may never cause a failure, since n is always an integer. Since my
> other testing guarantees that n is always an integer,

This is naive. Testing doesn't guarantee anything. If this is what you
think about testing, then testing gives you a false impression of
security. Maybe we should drop testing.

> it doesn't matter
> that I've created a variable x that doesn't get used. Yes, it would be
> nice for the compiler to flag this, but if the cost of that niceness is to
> have to define every single variable, I can live without it.

But we should decide what language features are usefull and which are
not by what some individual can or can't live without.

>>> Also there is 
>>> increased overhead when maintaining the code as all those declarations have 
>>> to be kept in line as the code changes over time.
>> 
>> Which is good. Just as you have to keep the unittests in line as code
>> changes over time.
>
> That is not the same at all. Changing variable declarations needs to be
> done every time you modify the internal implementation of a function.

Well now I'll nitpick too. No you don't. You only have to do so
if this modification needs other variables.

> Changing the unittests, or any other testing for that matter, only needs
> to be done when you change the interface.

Which will be often enough.

> In principle, if you have an interface designed up front before you write
> any code, you could write all your tests at the start of the project and
> never change them again. You can't do that with variable declarations,
> since every time you change the implementation you have to change the
> declarations.

This argument has very little value since all you are saying is that
if you were smart enought to choose the right interface to begin with,
you won't have to change interface related stuff like unittests, while
if you were not that smart in choosing your implementation, you will
have to change implemantation related stuff like declarations.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From kbk at shore.net  Thu Oct 27 13:35:30 2005
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:35:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200510271735.j9RHZUHG005080@bayview.thirdcreek.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  360 open (+16) /  2956 closed ( +1) /  3316 total (+17)
Bugs    :  893 open (+10) /  5353 closed (+12) /  6246 total (+22)
RFE     :  199 open ( -2) /   189 closed ( +2) /   388 total ( +0)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

Patch for (Doc) #1255218  (2005-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1328526  opened by  Peter van Kampen

Patch for (Doc) #1261659  (2005-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1328566  opened by  Peter van Kampen

pclose raises spurious exception on win32  (2005-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1328851  opened by  Guido van Rossum

datetime/xmlrpclib.DateTime comparison  (2005-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1330538  opened by  Skip Montanaro

tarfile.py: fix for 1330039  (2005-10-19)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1331635  opened by  Lars Gust?bel

Allow use of non-latin1 chars in interactive shell  (2005-10-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1333679  opened by  Noam Raphael

Fix for int(string, base) wrong answers  (2005-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1334979  opened by  Adam Olsen

Patch to implement PEP 351  (2005-10-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1335812  opened by  Barry A. Warsaw

Fix for int(string, base) wrong answers (take 2)  (2005-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1335972  opened by  Alan McIntyre

remove 4 ints from PyFrameObject  (2005-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1337051  opened by  Neal Norwitz

Elemental Security contribution - parsexml.py  (2005-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1337648  opened by  Guido van Rossum

 Elemental Security contribution - pgen2 package  (2005-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1337696  opened by  Guido van Rossum

fileinput patch for bug #1336582  (2005-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1337756  opened by  A. Murat EREN

Inconsistent use of buffer interface in string and unicode  (2005-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1337876  opened by  Phil Thompson

tarfile.py: fix for bug #1336623  (2005-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1338314  opened by  Lars Gust?bel

cross compile and mingw support  (2005-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1339673  opened by  Jan Nieuwenhuizen

Patches Closed
______________

tarfile.py: fix for 1330039  (2005-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1331635  closed by  nnorwitz

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

HTTPResponse instance has no attribute 'fileno'  (2005-10-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1327971  opened by  Kevin Dwyer

__getslice__ taking priority over __getitem__  (2005-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1328278  opened by  Josh Marshall

os-process.html  (2005-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1328915  opened by  Noah Spurrier

Empty Generator doesn't evaluate as False  (2005-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1328959  opened by  Christian H?ltje

tarfile.add() produces hard links instead of normal files  (2005-10-18)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1330039  opened by  Martin Pitt

utf 7 codec broken  (2005-10-19)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1331062  opened by  Ralf Schmitt

string_subscript doesn't check for failed PyMem_Malloc  (2005-10-19)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1331563  opened by  Adam Olsen

Incorrect use of -L/usr/lib/termcap  (2005-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1332732  opened by  Robert M. Zigweid

Inaccurate footnote 1 in Lib ref, sect 2.3.6.4  (2005-10-20)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1332780  opened by  Andy

BSD DB test failures for BSD DB 3.2  (2005-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1332852  opened by  Neal Norwitz

 Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized   (2005-10-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1332869  opened by  Andrew Mitchell

BSD DB test failures for BSD DB 4.1  (2005-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1332873  opened by  Neal Norwitz

Bugs of the new AST compiler  (2005-10-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1333982  opened by  Armin Rigo

int(string, base) wrong answers  (2005-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1334662  opened by  Tim Peters

Python 2.4.2 doesn't build with "--without-threads"  (2005-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1335054  opened by  Gunter Ohrner

fileinput device or resource busy error  (2005-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1336582  opened by  A. Murat EREN

tarfile can't extract some tar archives..  (2005-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1336623  opened by  A. Murat EREN

Python.h should include system headers properly [POSIX]  (2005-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1337400  opened by  Dimitri Papadopoulos

IDLE, F5 ? wrong external file content on error.  (2005-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1337987  opened by  MvGulik

doctest mishandles exceptions raised within generators  (2005-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1337990  opened by  Tim Wegener

Memory keeping  (2005-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1338264  opened by  sin

CVS webbrowser.py (1.40) bugs  (2005-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1338995  opened by  Greg Couch

shelve.Shelf.__del__ throws exceptions  (2005-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1339007  opened by  Geoffrey T. Dairiki

Threading misbehavior with lambdas  (2005-10-27)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1339045  opened by  Maciek Fijalkowski

Bugs Closed
___________

wrong TypeError traceback in generator expressions  (2005-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1327110  closed by  mwh

os-process.html  (2005-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1328915  closed by  nnorwitz

Empty Generator doesn't evaluate as False  (2005-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1328959  closed by  rhettinger

tarfile.add() produces hard links instead of normal files  (2005-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1330039  closed by  nnorwitz

utf 7 codec broken  (2005-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1331062  closed by  lemburg

string_subscript doesn't check for failed PyMem_Malloc  (2005-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1331563  closed by  nnorwitz

Inaccurate footnote 1 in Lib ref, sect 2.3.6.4  (2005-10-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1332780  closed by  birkenfeld

Argument genexp corner case  (2005-03-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1167751  closed by  nnorwitz

Encodings iso8859_1 and latin_1 are redundant  (2005-08-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1257525  closed by  lemburg

ISO8859-9 broken  (2005-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1324237  closed by  lemburg

mac_roman codec missing "apple" codepoint  (2005-10-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1313051  closed by  lemburg

line numbers off by 1 in dis  (2005-07-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1246473  closed by  nascheme

Threading misbehavior with lambdas  (2005-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1339045  deleted by  fijal

RFE Closed
__________

python scratchpad (IDLE)  (2005-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1326830  closed by  kbk

datetime.replace could take a dict  (2005-09-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1296581  closed by  birkenfeld



From dan at wolf.com  Sat Oct 29 12:27:30 2005
From: dan at wolf.com (Dan M)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:27:30 -0700
Subject: Building 2.4.2 on OpenBSD 3.8
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.29.16.27.25.846000@wolf.com>

I've been working with python 2.2.3 for the last couple of weeks, but
would like to move up to 2.4. I grabbed the 2.4.2 tarball and attempted to
install, but I get:

gcc -pthread -c -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
In file included from /usr/include/sys/select.h:38,
                 from Include/pyport.h:116,
                 from Include/Python.h:55,
                 from Modules/python.c:3:
/usr/include/sys/event.h:53: error: syntax error before "u_int"
/usr/include/sys/event.h:55: error: syntax error before "u_short"
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/local/src/Python-2.4.2.

immediately upon running "make". I took at look at event.h to see if I
could find and fix the problem, but the error isn't immediately apparent
to me.

Has anyone successfully built 2.4.2 on OpenBSD? If so, how did you do it?



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct  1 02:32:18 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:32:18 +1000
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.01.06.32.17.706653@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

A cautionary tale of what happens when religious wars enter programming
debates. For all I know, Paul Rubin is intelligent, gentle, kind to
animals and small children, generous, charitable and modest. But touch his
religious belief in the necessity of "truly" private variables, and boy oh
boy does he lose the plot.

First he compares using Python to being raped, earning (perhaps unfairly)
at least one plonking, and then he shows that no matter how intelligent
one might be, sense goes out the window when religion enters the door. See
below.


On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:23:35 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
>> > It's not easy if the base classes change after you check your code in.
>> > You shouldn't need to know about that if it happens.  Modularity, remember?
>> 
>> Yes. And if you are relying on a public method in a class, and somebody
>> dynamically modifies that public method, your code will stop working too.
> 
> I'm not talking about dynamic anything.  I'm talking about a normal
> software project where there are multiple people working on the code.

Paul misses the point: in a language like Python that allows the dynamic
modification of public methods (as well as private ones) you can't be
sure with absolute 100% mathematical certainty that your public interface
is the same at runtime as it was when you did your last code audit.

Paul worries about the possibility that some calling function will clobber
a private variable that must not be clobbered. Why is this threat more
worrisome than some calling function clobbering a public variable that
must not clobbered? Logically, it is not -- if a function stuffs garbage
into Klass.public_variable and breaks your entire program, that is no
better or no worse than a function stuffing garbage into
Klass._private_variable.

There may be languages that make it impossible for the caller to clobber
the public interface. But Python is not one of those languages. Since you
can't prevent people from clobbering your public interface (by accident or
design), and must instead (1) rely on the convention "don't break my
code!" and (2) test to be sure that people haven't broken your code. Why
worry MORE that people might clobber your private implementation? You deal
with that problem the same way that you deal with the first: by convention
("attributes starting with an underscore are private, don't clobber them
or rely on them being there!") and by testing.


> You write a class and carefully make sure that none of its private
> variables collide with superclasses in modules that it imports.  You
> check in your code and go do something else.  Then the person
> maintaining the superclasses goes and changes how they use their
> private variables.  He doesn't look at your code since his modules
> don't import yours.  But now both your code and his are broken.

I'm surprised that for somebody who is so worried about bugs, Paul is
satisfied with the "I didn't change anything that anyone can see, so the
code must still be working" school of testing. (Otherwise known as the "I
never changed anything" bug.)

If your development team uses test-driven development, you will catch this
breakage immediately you check the code in. If you don't, you've got
lots more bugs that you don't know about, so one more is no big deal.

Problem solved. Next?


>> perhaps that mathematical certainty is appropriate for
>> your ICBM control system or nuclear reactor, but it is a needless
>> affectation for (say) a word processor. 
> 
> Why on earth would you want to unnecessarily introduce random bugs
> into a word processor or anything else?  

Paul puts words into my mouth: I never suggested that it was good to
introduce bugs, unnecessarily or otherwise. What I said was that aiming
for 100% mathematical certainty that there are no bugs in a word processor
is pointless. No lives are at stake. The fate of nations doesn't rest on
your ability to make sure that PyWord is 100% bug free. Relax dude, the
world won't end if there is a bug or two in your code.

Of course, if Paul had been paying attention, he would have realised that
100% certainty is not possible in general no matter what style of
development you use. Perhaps folks have heard of the halting problem?

In programs which are small enough for you to trace through every
possible program path, you might be able to get that 100% certainty,
but for the rest, nope, no way. (The halting problem doesn't say that
no program can check the correctness of *any* program, only than no
program can check the correctness of *all* programs.)

You can reduce the probability of bugs by using best practices, but never
reduce it to zero. How small do you need? Is it really shocking to suggest
that while a one in a billion billion chance of a bug might be
needed for a nuclear reactor, we might be satisfied with just one in a
million for a word processor?


> And what happened to the
> marketing claims that Python was good for critical applications?

Paul makes the mistake of thinking that the truth of a claim depends on
what those consequences are. Paul is wrong to suggest that Python being a
dynamic language means that Python is not suited for critical
applications, but even if he were right, that would not effect the truth
of my statement.

You can write broken or malicious C code that passes both
visual inspection and even the best of automated testing (see, for
example, the Underhanded C Contest http://www.brainhz.com/underhanded/ and
the Obfuscated C Contest http://www.ioccc.org/). Should we decide that C
is not suitable for critical applications?

Well, perhaps we should -- but we don't. And neither should we jump to
that conclusion about Python. It is true that your critical application in
Python can be broken by a piece of code that modifies your class' public
interfaces. So? Your C application might write directly to memory,
clobbering its entire internal structure, and erase your hard disk to boot
just to be sure. What's important is not whether or not such a thing is
possible, but whether or not your application actually does it.

In any case, there is a difference between mission-critical applications
(such as, perhaps, a word processor) and what are generally called "real
time" critical systems such as those controlling nuclear power stations
and the like. I doubt that Python runs on any real-time operating
systems suitable for such critical systems, but perhaps I'm wrong.


-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  2 05:33:56 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 11:33:56 +0200
Subject: Problems posting with urlencode
References: <5HN%e.61089$mb4.14795@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <dho9i7$5rq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joseph Chase wrote:

> When I go and view the inserted record, the record exists, but the field
> values are null.  It is my thinking that the backend needs the "id" value
> for each input value; how do I add that data to the urlencode() call?

since the id isn't part of the form data set:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#form-data-set

that's a bit unlikely.

printing the params string might help you figure out what's
missing.

</F>





From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Tue Oct  4 04:34:50 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:34:50 +1000
Subject: Reply-To header
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <43423EAA.9060600@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> When I notice that a list is broken (RFC 2822 says that
> reply-to is for the *author* of the message; anyone else setting it is
> doing so in violation of the RFC, and hence broken, no matter how
> useful it may be), 

Since when did obeying the RFC become important in and 
of itself? If there was a RFC that said that passwords 
should be limited to one alphanumeric character, would 
we slavishly follow it?

I have been known to change the reply-to address from 
the address I am sending from (me at work for example) to 
the address I want the reply to go to (me at home). There 
are many times I'm emailing people I know can't cope 
with the complicated task of changing the To address of 
their reply, so I change the reply-to header so that 
their reply goes where I want it to go to (which might 
be another email address of mine, or a different 
person, or a mailing list).

That's what reply to means, surely? What is the point 
of a reply-to header that must be the sender, since you 
already have a header that gives you the sender.

If the RFC says that the reply-to header doesn't 
actually mean the address the reply should go to, but 
only the sender, then the RFC is broken. "Where the 
reply goes to" is a *human* decision, not a technical 
one. If I send you an email saying "Please reply to 
president at whitehouse.gov" then your mailer should 
honour that (although, since we are all adults, you 
should have the freedom to ignore my request and make a 
nuisance of yourself by emailing your reply to a 
different address).

Likewise, if I set the reply address to the list, then 
your mailer should reply to the list. Perhaps you can 
argue that *my decision* to have replies go to the list 
is a bad one, but that's a social issue, not a 
technical one.


> I tell my mailer to ignore reply-to on mail from
> that list. Similarly, I no longer try and explain to people how long
> lines violate RFCs and are a pain to read in well-behave mail readers,

By "well-behaved", do you mean "can't cope with long 
lines"? How curious -- that's precisely the opposite 
definition of well-behaved I use.

> or why mail readers that wrap text/plain content are broken.

Curiouser and curiouser. Again that's the exact 
opposite of my definition of broken.


-- 
Steven.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 27 05:57:34 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:57:34 +0200
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
References: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><iY2dnQ5KjoTMGcbeRVn-jQ@powergate.ca><1130230864.068474.118500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><Luidnc2OvoJ9u8PeRVn-hQ@powergate.ca><1130311678.936969.302020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><PKSdnaDh3tTOkv3eRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<1130406274.356454.141040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djq8af$loe$1@sea.gmane.org>

uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com wrote:

> xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/Py2exeAndPyXML

> I checked out what Ron suggested, but I've no files where the names
> could clash with python modules.

next time you get stuck, make sure to check this page

    http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/Py2Exe

</F> 





From elicriffield at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:53:46 2005
From: elicriffield at gmail.com (Eli Criffield)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 13:53:46 -0700
Subject: nested escape chars in a shell command
In-Reply-To: <dj4tn0$qgt$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
References: <1129666159.791998.134880@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj4tn0$qgt$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <1129841626.103053.104800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I can't seem to get that to work either.

child =
pexpect.spawn('/bin/sh',args=['-c','/usr/bin/ssh','-t','-o','StrictHostKeyChecking
no',host,command,'|','awk','{print %s:$0}'%host], timeout=30)

Complains its getting the wrong arguments to ssh.

Eli



From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Thu Oct 13 17:13:43 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:13:43 -0700
Subject: Nufox hosted.
Message-ID: <1129238023.306428.145030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I've been kindly authorized to host Nufox examples for free on :
http://bsd.miki.eu.org:9090/

Regards



From no at spam  Tue Oct  4 10:13:41 2005
From: no at spam (D H)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:13:41 -0500
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python, or go with a dot net
	language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j-ednWPfDqGKE9_eRVn-hQ@comcast.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> Disclaimer: this is not a flame against Boo.
> 
> It just boggles my mind that a language that describes itself as
> "python inspired syntax" keeps being touted as:
> 
> 
>>Luis M. Gonzalez wrote:
>>Boo (which could be considered almost an static version of Python for .NET)
> 
> 
> Boo is *nothing* like a static version of Python. Stop perpetuating
> this nonsense.


There is no static version of python, only a proposal[1] which was 
quickly stomped on and revised to be about slower runtime type-checking:

def gcd(a: int, b: int) -> int:
     while a:
         a, b = b%a, a
     return b

The boo equivalent is: (http://boo.codehaus.org/)

def gcd(a as int, b as int) as int:
     while a:
         a, b = b%a, a
     return b

Looks "nearly identical" to me.

(Istvan has been a long spewer of anti-boo FUD on this list)

[1] http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551


From skromta at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 11:38:16 2005
From: skromta at gmail.com (Kalle Anke)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:38:16 +0200
Subject: getting the path in a cgi script
Message-ID: <0001HW.BF759D88004280C3F0284550@news.individual.de>

I know I've done this once before ... I think ... but now I can't figure out 
how to do it

I've set my web server to use an alias similar to this

   ScriptAlias /xx/ "/Library/WebServer/CGI-Executables/xxx.cgi/"

which makes it possible for me to write

   http://127.0.0.1/xx/some/kind/of/path

my problem is that I don't know how to get the 'some/kind/of/path' part of 
the URL in my script.

I know that I can do like this in perl

   $documentRoot.path_info();

but how do I do it in python?



From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 01:24:01 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 22:24:01 -0700
Subject: Question on class member in python
In-Reply-To: <divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1129613041.473285.84800@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Peter Otten ???

> Johnny Lee wrote:
>
> > Class A:
> >    def __init__(self):
> >       self.member = 1
> >
> >    def getMember(self):
> >       return self.member
> >
> > a = A()
> >
> > So, is there any difference between a.member and a.getMember? thanks
> > for your help. :)
>
> Yes. accessor methods for simple attributes are a Javaism that should be
> avoided in Python. You can always turn an attribute into a property if the
> need arises to do some calculations behind the scene
>
> >>> class A(object):
> ...     def getMember(self):
> ...             return self.a * self.b
> ...     member = property(getMember)
> ...     def __init__(self):
> ...             self.a = self.b = 42
> ...
> >>> A().member
> 1764
>
> I. e. you are not trapped once you expose a simple attribute.
>
> Peter

Thanks for your help, maybe I should learn how to turn an attibute into
a property first.



From jmdeschamps at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 17:07:30 2005
From: jmdeschamps at gmail.com (jmdeschamps at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 14:07:30 -0700
Subject: Set operations for lists: pythonic hints please!
In-Reply-To: <1129842342.308921.201270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129842342.308921.201270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129842450.405250.210620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Ouppsss! 
the title should have read:Set operation for tuples...
(sigh!)



From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Thu Oct  6 00:18:11 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:18:11 -0400
Subject: Absolultely confused...
In-Reply-To: <1128563928.3513.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1128563928.3513.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1128572291.3513.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>

WELL, I figured it out--thanks to everyone's help. There were instances
of the object and I am a total moron.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me stomp this out. :)

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 21:58 -0400, Jeremy Moles wrote:
> So, here is my relevant code:
> 
> 	PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)
> 
> And here ismy error message:
> 
> 	argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d
> 
> I know PyType_vector3d "works" (as I can use them in the interpreter all
> day long), and I know I'm passing a pylf.core.vector3d (well, apparently
> not...)
> 
> I've spent hours and hours on this and I'm finally just giving up and
> asking. I've tried everything to get my program to verify that arg1 is
> really a PyType_vector3d, but to no avail.
> 
> If I take out the "!" in the format string and just use "O", I can at
> least get past PyArg_ParseTuple. Then I try something like...
> 
> 	PyObject_TypeCheck(arg1, &PyType_vector3d)
> 
> Which also fails, but I know for a fact that arg1's PyObject_Repr is
> what it should be. (pylf.core.vector3d)
> 
> I guess my question is: what in the world could be causing this to fail?
> It seems like I'm just not able to use ParseType or BuildValue to create
> objects of my own type.
> 
> I know I haven't provided a lot of information, but does anyone have any
> ideas or where I should start looking?
> 



From gagenellina at softlab.com.ar  Wed Oct 26 09:15:35 2005
From: gagenellina at softlab.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 06:15:35 -0700
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130332534.999358.152530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> I want to convert from pickle format to python source code. That is,
> given an existing pickle, I want to produce a textual representation
> which, when evaluated, yields the original object (as if I had
> unpickled the pickle).
> I know of some transformations pickle/xml (Zope comes with one such
> tool, gnosis xml is another) so I believe I could build something based
> on them.
> But I dont want to reinvent the wheel, I wonder if anyone knows of a
> library which could do what I want?

An example to make things clear:

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self,a,b):
        self.a=a
        self.b=b
    def foo(self):
        self.done=1
# construct an instance and work with it
obj = MyClass(1,2)
obj.foo()
# save into file
pickle.dump(obj,file('test.dat','wb'))

Then, later, another day, using another process, I read the file and
want to print a block of python code equivalent to the pickle saved in
the file.
That is, I want to *generate* a block of code like this:

xxx = new.instance(MyClass)
xxx.a = 1
xxx.b = 2
xxx.done = 1

Or perhaps:

xxx = new.instance(MyClass, {'a':1,'b':2,'done':1})

In other words, I need a *string* which, being sent to eval(), would
return the original object state saved in the pickle.
As has been pointed, repr() would do that for simple types. But I need
a more general solution.

The real case is a bit more complicated because there may be references
to other objects, involving the persistent_id mechanism of pickles, but
I think it should not be too difficult. In this example, if xxx.z
points to another external instance for which persistent_id returns
'1234', would suffice to output another line like:
xxx.z = external_reference('1234')

I hope its more clear now.

Thanks,
Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL



From iainking at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 09:30:35 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:30:35 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.25.12.40.57.426304@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130242672.024469.324530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.12.40.57.426304@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1130247035.969150.281910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:17:52 -0700, Iain King wrote:
>
> >
> > Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> >> Joerg Schuster wrote:
> >>
> >> > I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups.
> >>
> >> define "more" (101, 200, 1000, 100000, ... ?)
> >>
> >> </F>
> >
> > The Zero-One-Infinity Rule:
> >
> > http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html
>
>
> Nice in principle, not always practical. Sometimes the choice is, "do you
> want it today with arbitrary limits, or six months from now with bugs
> but no limits?"
>
> If assigning arbitrary limits prevents worse problems, well, then go for
> the limit. For instance, anyone who has fought browser pops ups ("close
> one window, and ten more open") may have wished that the browser
> implemented an arbitrary limit of, say, ten pop ups. Or even zero :-)
>

Well, exactly.  Why limit to ten?  The user is either going to want to
see pop-ups, or not.  So either limit to 0, or to infinity (and indeed,
this is what most browsers do).
Note the jargon entry defines infinity in this case to me the largest
possible amount given whatever ram/disk space/processing power you have
available.

Also: These arbitrary limits tend to stem from languages which
predominantly use fixed size arrays - DIM in basic, or malloc in C.
The native python component is the list, which doesn't have a max size,
so these problems should be encountered less in python code; by it's
nature, python steers you away from this mistake.

Iain



From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 22:39:13 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 19:39:13 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <1128795458.655247.166620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128732066.947274.206270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1746.1128759130.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128795458.655247.166620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129516753.679356.209100@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

########################
########################
########################
########################
########################

         os.path.exists()

########################
########################
########################
########################
########################



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Oct 25 18:01:58 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:01:58 -0700
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
In-Reply-To: <86ll0h2so4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86ll0h2so4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <200510251501.58135.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Tuesday 25 October 2005 14:27, Mike Meyer wrote:
> That's your right. Be aware that people will ignore, correct and/or
> complain about you doing so.

If I may be a complete ass: That should be "correct and/or complain about 
*your* doing so."

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From kent37 at tds.net  Tue Oct 11 22:08:58 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:08:58 -0400
Subject: Nicer way of strip and replace?
In-Reply-To: <dihb4t$t43$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <dihb4t$t43$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <434c6e64_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Markus Rosenstihl wrote:
> Hi,
> I wonder if i can make this  nicer:
> 
>     euro=euro + float(string.replace(string.strip(rechnung[element][10], 
> '"'), ',' , '.'))

You can use the str methods instead of functions from the string module:
euro=euro + float(rechnung[element][10].strip('"').replace(',' , '.'))

Kent


From sjmaster at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 15:18:28 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 12:18:28 -0700
Subject: Bug in COM Makepy utility? (ActivePython 2.4)
In-Reply-To: <1128636487.225741.266930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128636487.225741.266930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128712708.794417.142350@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

After exploring the bug database I discovered that this bug has been
reported since March, and appears to derive from a bug in Python
itself.

http://bugs.activestate.com/show_bug.cgi?id=38052

It apparently only happens when the code generated by Makepy is really
big (which it is for Word or Excel).

So my options are to downgrade from Python 2.4.1 to 2.3.5 or to use
Late  Binding instead of Early Binding (as described in Hammond and
Robinson, Ch. 12). The easiest path will be to use Early Binding,
because as far as I can tell the only significant changes to code will
be that I have to use integer literals instead of named constants. In
my case this means replacing
'win32com.client.constants.wdSendToNewDocument' with '0' (zero).



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Tue Oct  4 20:18:14 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 01:18:14 +0100
Subject: dictionary interface
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Robert Kern wrote:

> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>>   class Tree:
>>
>>     def __lt__(self, term):
>>       return set(self.iteritems()) < set(term.iteritems())
>>
>>     def __eq__(self, term):
>>       return set(self.iteritems()) == set(term.iteritems())
>>
>> Would this be a correct definition of the desired behaviour?
>
> No.
>
> In [1]: {1:2} < {3:4}
> Out[1]: True
>
> In [2]: set({1:2}.iteritems()) < set({3:4}.iteritems())
> Out[2]: False
>
>> Anyone a reference?
>
> The function dict_compare in dictobject.c .

Well there's a really helpful answer. I'm intrigued, Robert - since you 
know the real answer to this question, why did you choose to tell the 
Antoon that he was wrong, not tell him in what way he was wrong, certainly 
not tell him how to be right, but just tell him to read the source, rather 
than simply telling him what you knew? Still, at least you told him which 
file to look in. And if he knows python but not C, or gets lost in the 
byzantine workings of the interpreter, well, that's his own fault, i 
guess.

So, Antoon, firstly, your implementation of __eq__ is, i believe, correct.

Your implementation of __lt__ is, sadly, not. While sets take "<" to mean 
"is a proper subset of", for dicts, it's a more conventional comparison 
operation, which constitutes a total ordering over all dicts (so you can 
sort with it, for example). However, since dicts don't really have a 
natural total ordering, it is ever so slightly arbitrary.

The rules for ordering on dicts are, AFAICT:

- If one dict has fewer elements than the other, it's the lesser
- If not, find the smallest key for which the two dicts have different 
values (counting 'not present' as a value)
-- If there is no such key, the dicts are equal
-- If the key is present in one dict but not the other, the dict in which 
it is present is the lesser
-- Otherwise, the dict in which the value is lesser is itself the lesser

In code:

def dict_cmp(a, b):
 	diff = cmp(len(a), len(b))
 	if (diff != 0):
 		return diff
 	for key in sorted(set(a.keys() + b.keys())):
 		if (key not in a):
 			return 1
 		if (key not in b):
 			return -1
 		diff = cmp(a[key], b[key])
 		if (diff != 0):
 			return diff
 	return 0

I assume your tree has its items sorted by key value; that means there's 
an efficient implementation of this using lockstep iteration over the two 
trees being compared.

Another way of looking at it is in terms of list comparisons: comparing 
two dicts is the same as comparing the sorted list of keys in each dict, 
breaking ties by looking at the list of values, in order of their keys. 
There's a quirk, in that a shorter dict is always less than a longer dict, 
regardless of the elements.

In code:

def dict_cmp_alternative(a, b):
 	diff = cmp(len(a), len(b))
 	if (diff != 0):
 		return diff
 	ka = sorted(a.keys())
 	kb = sorted(b.keys())
 	diff = cmp(ka, kb)
 	if (diff != 0):
 		return diff
 	va = [a[k] for k in ka]
 	vb = [b[k] for k in kb]
 	return cmp(va, vb)

Hope this helps.

tom

PS In case it's of any use to you, here's the code i used to test these:

import random

def rnd(n):
 	return random.randint(0, n)

def randomdict(maxlen=20, range=100):
 	return dict((rnd(range), rnd(range)) for x in xrange(rnd(maxlen)))

def test(cmp2, n=1000):
 	for i in xrange(n):
 		a = randomdict()
 		b = randomdict()
 		if ((cmp(a, b)) != (cmp2(a, b))):
 			raise AssertionError, (a, b)

-- 
What we learn about is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our methods of questioning. -- Werner Heisenberg


From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 03:01:42 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:01:42 +0300
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <4342bb72$0$6128$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
	<4342bb72$0$6128$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <dhvtnu$22jo$1@news.tsua.net>


yes, to generete core dump is the best way,

but the command "$ ulimit -c 500000" don't make python to generete core dump in the time of crush.

I would like to know how to run python script so if it crushes than core dump will be genereted.

Thanks


Pierre Barbier de Reuille wrote:
> Maksim Kasimov a ?crit :
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter how
>>long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is nothing in
>>log-files that can points the problem.
>>My question is how it possible to find out where is the problem in the
>>code? Thanks for any help.
>>
>>Python 2.2.3
>>FreeBSD
>>
> 
> 
> Well, your best bet is to generate a core file !
> To do so, in the shell launching the program, you need to accept core
> files. The command is :
> 
> $ ulimit -c <max size of core file accepted>
> 
> For example:
> $ ulimit -c 500000
> 
> For a 500MB max file.
> 
> Then, if your program crash, you should see a file named "core.XXXX"
> where XXXX is the PID of the process. You can know exactly where the
> program crashed using gbd :
> 
> $ gdb --core=core.XXXX
> 
> Then, depending on the debug information you have in your executables
> you may (or may not) be able to know what happened :)
> 
> Pierre


-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 19 23:48:25 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:48:25 -0400
Subject: Some more odd behaviour from the Regexp library
References: <1129777843.892280.302490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86wtk8vofq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Veerasingam" <vdavidster at gmail.com> writes:

> Can anyone explain why it won't give me my captured group?
>
> In [1]: a = 'exit: gkdfjgfjdfsgdjglkghdfgkd'
> In [2]: import re
> In [3]: b = re.search(r'exit: (.*?)', a)
> In [4]: b.group(0)
> Out[4]: 'exit: '
>
> In [5]: b.group(1)
> Out[5]: ''
>
> In [6]: b.group(2)
> IndexError: no such group

It is giving you your captured group.  While the * operator matches as
long a string as possible, the *? operator matches as *short* a string
as possible. Since '' matches .*?, that's all it's ever going to
capture. So b.group(1) is '', which is what it's giving you.

>>> a = 'exit: gkdfjgfjdfsgdjglkghdfgkd'
>>> import re
>>> b = re.search(r'exit: (.*)', a)
>>> b.group(0)
'exit: gkdfjgfjdfsgdjglkghdfgkd'
>>> b.group(1)
'gkdfjgfjdfsgdjglkghdfgkd'
>>> 

which I suspect is what you actually want.

Of course, being the founder of SPARE, I have to point out that
a.split(': ') will get you the same two strings as the re I used
above.


      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jason at pengale.com  Thu Oct 20 10:52:45 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:52:45 -0500
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0FC33E2A-CBF5-44DB-B037-6EAA4C8B2DCE@pengale.com>

On Oct 19, 2005, at 11:55 PM, grunar at gmail.com wrote:

>
> Jason Stitt wrote:
>
>>
>> Using // for 'in' looks really weird, too. It's too bad you can't
>> overload Python's 'in' operator. (Can you? It seems to be hard-coded
>> to iterate through an iterable and look for the value, rather than
>> calling a private method like some other builtins do.)
>>
>
> // was a bit of a stretch.  I'd initially thought it for the "where"
> clause, becuase it's lower precedence than ** (I think), and really
> late at night // kind of looks like a W.  I decided against it because
> it looks to close to a comment in some other languages.
>
> Python "in" clause doesn't seem exploitable in any way--probably a  
> good
> thing.  I did add a "in_" method (name is arguable), which does the
> same thing, also a not_in.

What about modifying the overloaded == to produce 'in' if the right- 
hand side is a list? Then you can more easily generate statements  
dynamically:

def makeCond(name):
     return someOtherCond & (model.table.name == name)

makeCond("foo")
makeCond(["foo", "bar"])

And it doesn't require two different functions.

As long as there is no case where you might actually want to test if  
a column value equals a list, it should work. Is there? Some DBs  
support an Array type, but in general that might be better handled  
with an Array class, anyway.

- Jason, fingers crossed that all this black magic doesn't affect  
one's chances in the afterlife ;)



From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Mon Oct 24 16:33:03 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:33:03 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.55.58.603513@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djglnk$jq8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5y47f.174197$RW.59989@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<8qnpl11s9ie8s2pstqja5k5aeikn6tgtu7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3yb7f.175669$RW.140991@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:35:13 GMT, axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote,
> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
 
>>I see that you cannot make a reasoned argument against the fact that
>>property in the form of houses is taxed in America.
 
> And what has his inability to do that to your satisfaction got to do
> with the price of eggs?

Not that I care much since eggs bring on a rather strong reaction
within me, but his arguments were totally false.

Axel



From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Oct 10 16:31:46 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:31:46 GMT
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:06:27 -0700, dcrespo wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a program that serves client programs. The server has a login
> password, which has to be used by each client for logging in. So, when
> the client connects, it sends a string with a password, which is then
> validated on the server side. The problem is obvious: anyone can get
> the password just sniffing the network.
> 
> How can I solve this?
> 
> Daniel

What I've been doing for this, is to:

1) Store two copies of a (symmetric), one on the client host, one on the
server host.

2) When the client wants to connect to the server, have the server
generate a random string of bits, hash the client's password with the
string, and then the random string to the client

3) The client then hashes its copy of the same password with that random
string, and sends the result back to the server

4) The server, upon receiving the correct hash result, provides service

There are a lot of collisions being found in hash algorithms these days. 
I haven't heard about any in the RIPEMD family of hash algorithms yet.

Another possibility is to just use Diffie-Helman key exchange (pretty
simple to code the base algorithm in python - I have an implementation
in pure python for you if you want - but I hear that some numbers are
more prone to attack than others, which my code does not attempt to take
into account) to get a shared encryption key on both ends of the
communication, and then encrypt everything with that.



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Tue Oct 11 12:27:00 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:27:00 +0200
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1h4a5l4.13vx8k7etyxy1N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
   ...
> Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would be a

If you mean mark-and-sweep, with generational twists, that's what gc
uses for cyclic garbage.

> lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be faster,
> more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.

???  It adds no complexity (it's already there), it's slower, it is, if
anything, LESS reliable than reference counting (which is way simpler!),
and (if generalized to deal with ALL garbage) it might make it almost
impossible to write some kinds of extensions (ones which need to
interface existing C libraries that don't cooperate with whatever GC
collection you choose).  Are we talking about the same thing?!


> So python doesn't use the old SmallTalk 80 SmallInteger hack, or similar?
> Fair enough - the performance gain is nice, but the extra complexity would
> be a huge pain, i imagine.

CPython currently is implemented on a strict "minimize all tricks"
strategy.  There are several other implementations of the Python
language, which may target different virtual machines -- Jython for JVM,
IronPython for MS-CLR, and (less mature) stuff for the Parrot VM, and
others yet from the pypy project.  Each implementation may use whatever
strategy is most appropriate for the VM it targets, of course -- this is
the reason behind Python's refusal to strictly specify GC semantics
(exactly WHEN some given garbage gets collected)... allow such multiple
implementations leeway in optimizing behavior for the target VM(s).


Alex


From usgog at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 14:27:39 2005
From: usgog at yahoo.com (usgog at yahoo.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:27:39 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1130264859.869054.291760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

So how to overwrite the config file directly in script.py instead of
running script.py with two params?

A XML file or ConfigParser is appealing but this is part of a legacy
system...:(



From trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es  Thu Oct 13 10:41:07 2005
From: trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es (trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:41:07 +0200
Subject: Your message to Trasno awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.41.1129214467.11186.trasno@ceu.fi.udc.es>

Your mail to 'Trasno' with the subject

    Re: Your letter

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    SpamAssassin identified this message as possible spam (score 3)

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://ceu.fi.udc.es/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm/trasno/dd18e8bb5cc9d685d0ef2dedb7b539562d988d39



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 11:18:37 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:18:37 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.15.18.35.709642@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:36:26 +0000, Tim Tyler wrote:

> Since - in Roedy's essay - messages are digitally signed, authority
> to advise about any email address updates would presumably be confined
> to those people with access to the sender's private key.

If I have the sender's private key, then I can pretend to be him. That
would mean that when you received an email from the sender, you couldn't
be sure if it actually came from him or not, thus defeating the purpose of
having a private key.

> Even /without/ any form of authentication, a standard change-of-address 
> message - which is understood by mail readers - is a fine and sensible 
> idea.

So any random person -- or bot -- could send an email to my business
associates, telling them that my email address had changed to
industrial_espionage at spyware.com, please send all your confidential
information directly there thank you very much.

Yeah. Fine *and* sensible.


-- 
Steven.



From bonono at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 01:21:01 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 22:21:01 -0700
Subject: access dictionary with preferred order ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2399.1129955734.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129954732.769162.62150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2399.1129955734.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129958461.424475.229750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

thanks. But I do quite understand how to specific my order(which could
be arbitary). It seems to have a move method so I need to first loop
through my order list and match then move things around ?

James Stroud wrote:
> This is an "ordered dict":
>
>    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/438823
>
> On Friday 21 October 2005 21:18, bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am wondering if there is a dictionary data type that allows me to
> > define the order of access when iterating it using items/keys etc. ?
> >
> > An example:
> >
> > a=dict(a=dict(), c=dict(), h=dict())
> > prefer=['e','h', 'a']
> >
> > for x in a.values: print x
> >
> > would give me
> > {h:dict()}, {a:dict()}, then the rest which I don't care about the
> > order ?
>
> --
> James Stroud
> UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
> Box 951570
> Los Angeles, CA 90095
> 
> http://www.jamesstroud.com/



From belred at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 16:04:48 2005
From: belred at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:04:48 -0700
Subject: tuple versus list
In-Reply-To: <1129475300.537237.131090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129460775.484350.209520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129475300.537237.131090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diubou$tmm$1@sea.gmane.org>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> In this particular case, it seems that (width,height) looks nicer. But
> I think otherwise, list constuct is easier to read, even though it is
> supposed to be slower.
> 
> With list you can :
> [a] + [ x for x in something ]
> 
> With tuple it looks like this :
> (a,) + tuple(x for x in something)
> 
> I think the list looks cleaner. And since you cannot concat tuple with
> list, I think unless it looks obvious and natural(as in your case), use
> list.
> 


i always use the structure analogy.  if you view (width, height) as a structure, 
use a tuple.  if you view it a sequence, use a list.  in this example, i view it 
as a stucture, so i would use (width, height) as a tuple.

bryan



From dek at bosshog.lbl.gov  Mon Oct 31 12:48:36 2005
From: dek at bosshog.lbl.gov (David E. Konerding DSD staff)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:48:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using graphviz to visualize trace.py output, anybody?
References: <1130710534.618559.40680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndmcm7k.1ud.dek@bosshog.lbl.gov>

In article <1130710534.618559.40680 at g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, svenn.are at bjerkem.de wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> has anybody thought of / already used graphviz to convert the output of
> trace.py into a graph? I looked at PyUMLGraph, but 1. PyUMLGraph does
> not successfully create a dot file, and 2. I don't really want a UML
> representation but a compact representation of program execution.
> 
> Maybe there is some other tool that I am not aware of which can create
> this kind of trace. I use eclipse with pydev plugin on MacOS 10.3.9
> 
> Regards,
> Svenn
> 

Take a look at:
http://dkbza.org/pydot.html

It's a python interface which can produce dot format files (based on its internal
graph API) and run graphviz for you.

I'm not sure which trace.py you're referring to, but I assume it dumps some output file.
You have a couple of obvious ways to get what you want:

1) modify trace.py to create a pydot graph structure then write to file
2) make a script that parses the trace.py output to create a pydot graph structure then write to file

Dave


From free.condiments at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 17:06:27 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 14:06:27 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <7x8xwdid3e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130531874.710810.39050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xwdid3e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1130533587.452875.167870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

> unzip doesn't seem to work for me...

It's not a part of the standard Python distribution, but this is a
naive implementation (it doesn't react well to the list's contents
having different lengths).

def unzip(seq):
    result = [[] for i in range(len(seq[0]))]
    for item in seq:
        for index in range(len(item)):
            result[index].append(item[index])
    return result

>>> unzip(zip(range(5), 'abcde'))
[[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e']]



From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Tue Oct 11 09:47:12 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:47:12 -0000
Subject: Wanted: Python module allowing direct access to raw sectors
	ofharddrives (MFT, boot sector, etc.) in MS Windows
References: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r09niFh717sU1@individual.net>
	<1128986917.703980.35230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r1n2sFha01oU1@individual.net>

Thank you for your reply, even if currently not
that interesting for me because after the first
CD writer for IDE were available I stopped to
use SCSI and didn't come back to it since then.

Does the Python open() command not work the
same way for SCSI drives as for IDE or USB
drives (I can't try it myself, because of above)?

Claudio
P.S. for those who are interested I have uploaded a
Python script I wrote for myself to have a reference to
this subject to:
http://people.freenet.de/AiTI-IT/Python/HowTo_AccessRawSectorsOfPhysicalDrives.py
:-)

"sam" <samschul at pacbell.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1128986917.703980.35230 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The following site contains my routines to access information from the
> Microsoft SCSIPASSTHROUGH layer under windows. These routines allow you
> to access the storage devices mounted under windows using SCSI
> commands. The dll that I provide will work with Python 2.3
>
> http://starship.python.net/crew/samschul/
>
> Sam Schulenburg
>
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
> > Thank you Jeff very much for your quick reply.
> > It saved me really much time of digging in the wrong direction.
> >
> > <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in
> > news:<mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list at python.org>...
> > >> I took the advice from this web page:
> > >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q100027/
> > Ok, I had found this page myself during Googling, but I have missed just
> > to try to use the described way of addressing physical devices with file
> > opening in Python.
> > It works as expected with harddrives so you are right that you are
getting
> > the MBR with the proposed code.
> >
> > After some not always happy end adventures with Python
> > scripting I am impressed by the power of the concept behind
> > the language once again.
> >
> > Claudio
> >
> > >>(I don't know how this extends to floppies, and the 9x family of OSes
> > isn't
> > >>listed in "applies to", so this may not help your case)
> > >>Here, I open "physical drive 0" and see that the magic number
indicates a
> > valid
> > >>boot record. I believe it is the MBR.
> > >>>>> f = open('\\\\.\\PhysicalDrive0', 'rb')
> > >>>>> f.read(512)[-2:]
> > >>'U\xaa' # that is, hex 55 AA
> > >>I don't know much about low-level filesystem or partition details--I
got
> > the
> > >>tidbit about the 55 AA magic number from
> >
>>http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/pub/doc/suse/sles9/adminguide-sles9/ch08.ht
> > ml
> > >>Jeff
> > >><jepler at unpythonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list at python.org...
>






From meatpodeye at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 03:00:34 2005
From: meatpodeye at yahoo.com (Gorlon the Impossible)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:00:34 GMT
Subject: loop help
Message-ID: <jgt0m1hdjk1bc7q0ose5pjn8slbq1hmr95@4ax.com>

Hello. I am using Python 2.3.5 with IDLE 1.0.5 on a Windows98 PC.
I have some programming experience but mostly I am still learning.
I am having some trouble understanding the behaviour of a piece of
code I have written. It plots points using PIL.
Here is my loop:

triangle = [(320,27),(172,323),(468,323)]
currentpoint = (randint(0,640),randint(0,350))
t = 0
while t < 10:
    ct = choice(triangle)
    mp = (currentpoint[0] + ct[0])/2, (currentpoint[1] + ct[1])/2
    draw.point(mp,(0,0,0))
    currentpoint = mp
    t = t + 1

This works fine. But, if I try to divide by a floating point number in
the calculation of mp, instead of mp being overwritten each time thru
the loop, it starts accumulating, leading to overflow errors for large
values of t.
Why is this?


From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 14:50:03 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:50:03 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <863bmsakgp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djgm0r$k12$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:863bmsakgp.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

>>>>     I am not saying Microsoft did not know the law. I am saying that no
>>>> rational person could have expected the law to be applied to Microsoft
>>>> that
>>>> way it was. The law *must* put a person on notice of precisely what
>>>> conduct
>>>> it prohibits. However, in this case, the law's applicability was
>>>> conditioned
>>>> on an abritrary and irrational choice of what the relevant market was.

>>> MS has a long history of dancing with the DOJ, and has been repeatedly
>>> warned about the legality - or lack thereof - of their behavior. No
>>> rational person who knew of that history could expect the law to be
>>> applied to MS in any way other than the way it was.

>>     Since when does the DOJ get to make the law? (George Bush's claims to
>> the contrary not withstanding.) The issue is whether the *LAW* put 
>> Microsoft
>> on notice. A just law must itself put people on notice as to precisely 
>> what
>> conduct constitutes a violation of that law.

> In that case, we hav an *awful* lot of unjust laws, because laws
> seldom disallow "precise" behavior.

    That is true. A law *must* put a reasonable person on notice of 
precisely what conduct it prohibits and what it does not. At the "fringes", 
the tie goes to the runner, that is, the conduct is not illegal. The law is 
not supposed to care about things that are trivial. (Except in genuine 
private entity versus private entity non-criminal cases, where the law 
really is about the slightest tip of the scales and there is no presumption 
for either party.)

>Which is the only rational way for
> a system of laws to work. Requiring that the law predict *everything*
> that someone might do to harm others and explicitly listing all those
> cases is silly.

    That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking that the law *clearly* put 
people on notice of what conduct is prohibited. That's very easy in 
legitimate laws, because we all know what it means to punch someone or to 
rob them. It becomes very difficult in illegitimate laws, because there is 
no reasonable test to decide whether something is a 'monopoly' or not. This 
burden makes it harder for the government to pass unjust laws, and that is a 
good thing.

> Instead, you outline a class of actions and tag them
> all as illegal. That's why we have laws against assault and battery
> and unsafe driving. And laws against exercising monopoly power in an
> unfair manner.

    Interesting how you, again, equate a gun and an argument. It is very 
important to you to justify responding to arguments with guns. However, I 
reject that premise at its roots, not just in your application of it.

    DS




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 15 23:59:28 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:59:28 GMT
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:56:44 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Mike Meyer wrote:
>> Out of random curiosity, is there a PEP/thread/? that explains why
>> Python symbols are restricted to 7-bit ascii?
>
>No PEP yet; I meant to write one for several years now.
>
>The principles would be
>- sources must use encoding declarations
>- valid identifiers would follow the Unicode consortium guidelines,
>   in particular: identifiers would be normalized in NFKC (I think),
>   adjusted in the ASCII range for backward compatibility (i.e.
>   not introducing any additional ASCII characters as legal identifier
>   characters)
>- __dict__ will contain Unicode keys
>- all objects should support Unicode getattr/setattr (potentially
>   raising AttributeError, of course)
>- open issue: what to do on the C API (perhaps nothing, perhaps
>   allowing UTF-8)

Perhaps string equivalence in keys will be treated like numeric equivalence?
I.e., a key/name representation is established by the initial key/name binding, but
values can be retrieved by "equivalent" key/names with different representations
like unicode vs ascii or latin-1 etc.?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From uche.ogbuji at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 23:25:44 2005
From: uche.ogbuji at gmail.com (uche.ogbuji at gmail.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 20:25:44 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130350833.334697.60490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130350833.334697.60490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130469944.901132.312500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> - don't use SAX unless your document is huge
> - don't use DOM unless someone is putting a gun to your head

What I say is: use what works for you.  I think SAX would be fine for
this task, but, hey, I personally would use Amara (
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/4suite/amara/ ), of course.  The following
does the trick:

import sets
import amara
from amara import binderytools

#element_skeleton_rule suppresses char data from the resulting binding
#tree.  If you have a large document and only care about element/attr
#structure and not text, this saves a lot of memory
rules = [binderytools.element_skeleton_rule()]
#XML can be a file path, URI, string, or even an open-file-like object
doc = amara.parse(XML, rules=rules)
elems = {}
for e in doc.xml_xpath('//*'):
    paths = elems.setdefault((e.namespaceURI, e.localName), sets.Set())
    path = u'/'.join([n.nodeName for n in e.xml_xpath(u'ancestor::*')])
    paths.add(u'/' + path)

#Pretty-print output
for name in elems:
    print name, '\n\t\t\t', '\n\t\t\t'.join(elems[name])


--
 Uche Ogbuji                               Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net                    http://fourthought.com
http://copia.ogbuji.net                   http://4Suite.org
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/



From http  Fri Oct  7 10:21:33 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 07:21:33 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434545b7$0$662$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<86mzlmpo5r.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<43458fc7$0$660$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<86br22pbgb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xbr21tnki.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > When you want local variable in lisp you do :
> >
> > (let ((a 3)) (+ a 1))
> 
> Excep that's not a decleration, that's a binding. That's identical to
> the Python fragment:
> 
>        a = 3
>        return a + 1
> 
> except for the creation of the new scope. Not a variable decleration
> in site.

Really not though, the scope is what makes it a declaration.  In
Python you can say:

   for i in 1,2:
     if i == 2: print x   # x is unbound the first time through the loop
     x = 9                # but bound the second time 

and the print doesn't raise an error.  Further, 'x' is still in scope
even after the loop exits.  Scheme lets you say something like

  (define (counter)
    (let ((k 0))
      (define (f)
         (set! k (+ 1 k))
         k)
      f))

Yeah, I know you'd write it a bit more concisely in Scheme, but I
wanted to make it look like the Python equivalent:

  def counter():
     k = 0
     def f():
        k += 1
        return k
     return f

The trouble is, in f, k is neither local nor global, so Python throws
up its hands and raises an error.  There's no way to tell it where to
find k.  This could be solved with a declaration, if Python understood it.



From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 22:50:40 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:50:40 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<11lsopl4qpg9gc2@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.17.16.04.89184@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83e5092b6a44c98a5ca@news.verizon.net>
	<ubr1cjmau.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<5970m1tfp5qoh9qpr6cbiki6n7b7ajbi3b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djpfa0$pbn$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On 26 Oct 2005 18:05:45 +0200, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
> <jadedgamer at hotmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
> who said :

>>> IBM seems to have had a history of squeezing out competition in the
>>> same way Microsoft has, if I recall correctly.

>> ... and were told not to by a court. Which is the whole reason for
>> the existence of IBM clones, whether PCs or mainframes.

> Back in the early days, IBM was just as bad as MS. Competition and
> some smackdown by the DOJ, have made them much better behaved.

    And opened the door for Microsoft.

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 13 06:48:43 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:48:43 +0100
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <dile2c$des$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> 
>>That particular implementation used 3 or 4 tag-bits. Of course you are
>>right that nowadays python won't notice the difference, as larger nums
>>get implicitely converted to a suitable representation. But then the
>>efficiency goes away... Basically I think that trying to come up with
>>all sorts of optimizations for rather marginal problems (number
>>crunching should be - if a python domain at all - done using Numarray)
> 
> 
> I don't think it's necessarily marginal.  Tagged ints can be kept in
> registers, which means that even the simplest code that does stuff
> with small integers becomes a lot more streamlined, easing the load on
> both the Python GC and the cpu's memory cache.  Right now with the
> bytecode interpreter, it probably doesn't matter, but with Pypy
> generating native machine code, this kind of thing can make a real
> difference.

Until someone does the experiment this stuff is bound to be speculation 
(what's that saying about "premature optimization"?). But I can foresee 
that there'd be problems at the outer edges of the language: for 
example, sys.maxint would have to be reduced, and this in turn would 
lead to reduction in, for example, the theoretical maximum length of 
sequences.

Even if it reduced the average execution time of the "average" program, 
this will involve trade-offs which can only be fully appreciated in the 
light of practical experience.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 17:44:22 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:44:22 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.01.54.305584@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Ilb2f.18523$bb3.758915@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>
	<7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>

On 09 Oct 2005 14:06:20 -0700, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote or quoted :

>That's the worst of all.  I certainly don't want my mail reader
>opening network connections to arbitrary places when I read my mail.
>I have no willingness at all to reveal my mail reading habits or IP
>address to everyone who sends me email. 
 
Obviously you can't trust anything code-like that arrives from
strangers. It is an extension of the law Mommy laid down not to take
candy from strangers.

However, formatted text is not code. Pictures are not code.  It is
unfair to tar them with the brush of JavaScript or the goofy things
Outlook does with enclosures.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  6 09:19:29 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:19:29 +0100
Subject: Help with chaos math extensions.
In-Reply-To: <4343BC8E.1060702@yahoo.com>
References: <43433982.8080008@yahoo.com>	<AED30AD0-B8E2-44ED-BBF1-3B624A64E7B7@gmail.com>
	<4343BC8E.1060702@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <di388o$cqq$2@sea.gmane.org>

Brandon K wrote:
> In case you missed it, I said I have windows XP.  Windows XP 
> pre-compiled python binaries are built on VS .NET 2003.  In order to 
> build extensions, you need the compiler the interpreter was built on, or 
> at least that is what is reported to me by calling setup.py.  If I was 
> using linux, which I currently am not, it'd be a different story.  
> Additionally, GCC isn't available for windows XP, only MinGW, the port, 
> and I don't know that much about it to use it running on a Windows 
> platform.  Furthermore, I was asking for help on an extension, not an 
> economical question about my programming environment.
> 
> Thanks
> 
>>
>>On Oct 4, 2005, at 10:25 PM, Brandon Keown wrote:
>>
>>>   I have programmed a fractal generator (Julia Set/Mandelbrot Set) 
>>>in python in the past, and have had good success, but it would run so 
>>>slowly because of the overhead involved with the calculation.  I 
>>>recently purchased VS .NET 2003 (Win XP, precomp binary of python 
>>>2.4.2rc1) to make my own extensions.
>>
>>Why did you need to purchase anything when gcc is available for free?
>>
Since gcc isn't an option, the logical way to proceed would be to do 
what others have done and install the Microsoft Toolkit compiler, 
available from their web site for the outrageous price of nothing. I can 
vouch that it really does compile extensions for Python 2.4 on Windows, 
having done that myself.

See

   http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From tim at tt1lock.org  Mon Oct 17 08:45:45 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:45:45 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<b4v4l1hu7v0cirvhii19inrbbf94reofhk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <IoI8s9.JAG@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote or quoted:

> MS has held BACK computer evolution by tying their OS so heavily to
> the Pentium architecture. The chip architecture has nowhere near
> enough registers.  MS refused to believe the Internet was more than a
> passing fad. They are still frantically patching security holes in
> their OS over a decade  later.

Another big problem appears to be sitting on their customers and milking 
them - rather than working on improving things.  There has been some
progress with their OS - but it seems to be going very slowly.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 17 20:07:20 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:07:20 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <dzV4f.25783$a_2.634978@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F2A997EF4CDcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<dzV4f.25783$a_2.634978@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <200510171907.20938.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 17 October 2005 05:27 pm, Roel Schroeven wrote:
> John Bokma wrote:
> > Or do you really consider the Linux desktop (any of them) quality? 
> 
> Actually yes. Are they better than MS's desktop? Depends on one's needs.
> If I didn't need MS for my job, there's a very big chance I would only
> use Linux. Or MacOS X.

Duh. Yeah of course they're better than Windows' desktop. Trying
to get anything done with an XP box is somewhere between the
frustration level of dealing with the IRS and trying to work your
way out of a well while hanging upside down from the bucket by
your feet with your arms tied behind your back.

For example, on Linux I don't have:

  * pop-up ads

  * applications that only do half the job, then offer to sell
    me the other half

  * the "zero click" interface -- there is NOTHING more frustrating
    than having the desktop constantly second guessing you, and
    pushing buttons because it thinks you waited too long (i.e.
    you actually stopped to read the dialog text).

but I do have:

  * multiple virtual desktops

  * one click pasting between windows

Now, I'm sure, that under some theoretical, fully-tricked-out
Windows platform, with all the possible bells and whistles
installed, and all the stupid OEM modifications removed (including
all that adware), this might not be so. But frankly, I've never
SEEN a Windows box like that, much less used one.

What I have seen is a factory-direct Dell laptop with a
pre-installed Windows XP which had all of the problems I
described above.

OTOH, the Linux environment I describe is run-of-the-mill
Debian Sarge with KDE.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From rubencharles at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 07:34:10 2005
From: rubencharles at gmail.com (Ruben Charles)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:34:10 -0400
Subject: Need Python Pro for Help!! Plzz
In-Reply-To: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
References: <5uSdnSSK7vYrTfneRVn-pQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <aa7b198d0510310434t66c5049bg64c9417ef77cda53@mail.gmail.com>

A stranger from the land of Woot came to Master Foo as he was eating
the morning meal with his students.

"I hear y00 are very l33t," he said. "Pl33z teach m3 all y00 know."

Master Foo's students looked at each other, confused by the stranger's
barbarous language. Master Foo just smiled and replied: "You wish to
learn the Way of Unix?"

"I want to b3 a wizard hax0r," the stranger replied, "and 0wn ever3one's b0xen."

"I do not teach that Way," replied Master Foo.



http://www.catb.org/~esr//writings/unix-koans/script-kiddie.html


On 10/30/05, blah at blah.blah <blahman at bag.python.org> wrote:
> Need python Pro at newtopython at googlegroups.com , if u wanna help, plz
> reply to that address. We are python beginners. need a real good
> Python Programmer for Help. TIA!!
> --
>  * Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Beta 7
>  * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 17:42:34 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:42:34 -0500
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1655.1128664871.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>
Message-ID: <200510101642.34288.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Sunday 09 October 2005 07:50 am, phil hunt wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> >GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
> >reading it as written pretty much makes sense).
> 
> I know, let's re-write Python to make it more like COBOL! That's 
> bound to be a winner!

Whereas the "natural order" of "condition affirmative negative" is natural
for what reason?  That it is so in C?

I don't find that so compelling either, frankly.  Why should it really
matter in the end?  I've always found C's order (and punctuation) confusing,
I have to look it up practically everytime I use it or have to read it 
(which correlates to it being used very rarely, with causality in both
directions).

Given that situation, choosing a form which is easy to read is surely
an advantage, and, since it is the way that Python has handled logic
in the past, it makes sense to continue doing so.

No doubt, ANY choice of ternary operator for Python will be
criticized, and no doubt, ANY choice would nevertheless be
usable.

OTOH, I think this choice is consistent with the rest of Python's
design. The general choice to use keyword operators for LOGIC
and symbolic operators for MATH is retained, and so long as we're
describing the logic in words, it makes sense for the wording
to sound natural.

Consistency certainly does make it easier for me to remember.

Python's main advantage over other languages, for me, is that
it makes me run to the manual a lot less, and I generally don't
get confused trying to follow other people's code.


--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 30 03:53:09 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:53:09 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4363f91d$0$2089$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <dk1u3d$m30$04$2@news.t-online.com>

David Rasmussen wrote:

> None of the solutions presented in this thread is nearly as fast as the
> 
> print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")
 
Have you already timed Scott David Daniels' approach with a /large/
blocksize? It looks promising.

Peter


From james at colannino.org  Mon Oct 24 01:27:05 2005
From: james at colannino.org (James Colannino)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:27:05 -0700
Subject: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <86hdb77b4f.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <mailman.2455.1130128983.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86hdb77b4f.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <435C70A9.6040404@colannino.org>

Mike Meyer wrote:

>This is a scripting language feature. Python doesn't have direct
>support for it, any more than C++ does. To get that functionality, you
>want to use either the os.popen function, or - preferable, but only
>available in newer Pythons - the subprocess module.
>  
>

Thanks.

James

-- 
My blog: http://www.crazydrclaw.com/
My homepage: http://james.colannino.org/




From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Oct 19 05:16:42 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:16:42 +0100
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <ev-dnaho8bcco8jeRVn-jw@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>	<4354b324$0$21023$636a55ce@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2208.1129627807.509.python-list@python.org>
	<ev-dnaho8bcco8jeRVn-jw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <43560EFA.5030108@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:
> 
.......
> 
> Can you add the object to be observed as another parameter to the add 
> method?
> 
> py> class ObservableProperty(property):
> ...     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
......
> py> A.x.add(b, obs2)
> py> b.x = 7
> obs2: 7
> 
> Probably "self._observers" should use some sort of weakref dict instead 
> of a regular dict, but hopefully the idea is clear.
> 
> STeVe

yes I think this is what Alex is proposing. It probably means abandoning the 
class based observers entirely otherwise there would have to be a decision on 
whether the instance observers take priority and some argument convention on 
whether the class or the instance was being added to.
-- 
Robin Becker



From tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu  Sun Oct  9 06:25:54 2005
From: tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:25:54 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20051009122554.6237bh04.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:39:38 GMT
Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> So from an aesthetic point of view, once people learn how it works,
> CSS lets sender and receiver compromise on what the message looks
> like. No other medium gives ANY control to the receiver about how a
> message is formatted.

My mail reader renders HTML as text. Usually, that gets the message
through without the impediments the sender included.
Of course one can render anything in one's computer exactly the way one
wants, given comptence and time. Mutual agreement on a CSS is possible,
but for widespread usage it  needs to be a standardised CSS, and then
we're back in the featuritis spiral. 

> One of the most important changes in the ability to select special
> fonts for the those without prefect vision and larger fonts.

That's exactly why I don't want people to muck with the presentation of
an email. I've set up my machine to render standard ASCII emails
execatly the way I want, with the font that I can read, in a size that
optimises ease and visible text. I don't care that someone would like
to inline a 5000x3000 JPEG from their 15 megapixel camera, or render
text in white on black, or any other silly format. If they want me to
see a document in _exactly_ the way they prepared it, let them use PDF.
It's there, and it works well.

> There is also the philosophical question. When my nephew sends me a
> message, do I have a right to warp his intent even if I don't like the
> aesthetics?  That is part of his message.

That question is answered above - if your nephew wants you to see
exactly what he produced, let him use the format specifically designed
for the purpose. And yes, philosophically speaking the recipient can do
anything they like with the message, including not reading it at all.
Anything else would be preposterous. 
 
> Should my email reader fix the spelling mistakes in the emails sent me
> by angry US soldiers?  Or is that part of the message?

If you want it to do that, yes. Wheter including the corrected message
in the reply is a good idea is another question (mostly related to how
the relation is, how it should be, and how big the soldier in question
is).

> There are three different issues getting muddled together:
> 
> 1. avoiding spam

Which happens to use HTML to obfuscate the message and avoid getting
caught by filters. 

> 2. making mail from well meaning but inept friends more readable.

Who happen to use HTML because they don't have a clue.

> 3. what constitutes a good general style for general correspondence.
> How should you use rich text appropriately.

Which happens to be largely superfluous as far as conveying intent is
concerned. 

Email works well without rich text, especially when combined with
attachments that use a format sender and recipient have agreed to. 
We don't need more, and we shouldn't assume that more complex
technology equates to an improvement. Example: it's not because we can
use a gazillion typefaces in pastel colours that documents that we
should do so. 

Take care,
-- 
Stefaan
-- 
As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning,
and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh 


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 12:30:31 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 09:30:31 -0700
Subject: Python for search engine development
References: <1128288465.580210.35460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128291039.914526.68840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h43whh.1bln89vje62izN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

wittempj at hotmail.com <martin.witte at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, Google applies some Python in their implementation, see
> http://www-db.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html

"Some" is correct.  As for writing a search engine in Python _only_,
hmmm -- I honestly don't know.  You could surely develop a working
implementation, but then, to make it perform well, you'd most likely
want to profile it and retune some CPU-intensive parts using pyrex, or
C.

So, if during your program development process you can find good
open-source C or C++ libraries offering a fast implementation of some of
the CPU-bound stuff you know you'll need, you would probably be better
off by wrapping those libraries (again using pyrex, or maybe SWIG, or
Boost Python for C++, ...) rather than redoing them from scratch in
Python (and probably later having to do some tuning on those parts).
One notably strong point of Python is that it "plays well with others",
and I would advise you to leverage this fact.


Alex


From haraldarminmassa at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 04:39:33 2005
From: haraldarminmassa at gmail.com (Harald Armin  Massa)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 01:39:33 -0700
Subject: migrate from ZODB 3.3.1 --- to where, and how?
Message-ID: <1130229573.350936.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am using ZODB "standalone" in version 3.3.1 within some application.

Now I learn that the 3.3.x branch of ZODB is "retired". No problem so
far, everything is running fine.


BUT... "retired" gives me the hint that nothing GREAT will be done to
this branch anymore :)

Now I am questioning myself: to which branch should I migrate? Is 3.5 a
sure bet, or are uneven subversions a bad sign, making retirement
likely?

As much as my diggings showed me, the "special sign" of 3.3 was
import ZODB
from persistent import Persistent
from persistent.list import PersistentList
from persistent.mapping import PersistentMapping

that PersistentList and PersistenMapping reside within
persistent.<something>, while in the 3.2 branch they reside somewhere
else in the namespace.

I learned it the hard way that 3.3 filestores not get converted
magically or easy to 3.2 :) ...

So, my questions:
 - where should I migrate to?
 - how is migration done best (especially taking care of "old"
filestores

Harald



From sjmaster at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 18:11:10 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 15:11:10 -0700
Subject: Problem Pythoncard tutorial
References: <1129563565.327047.327000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129587070.176237.316450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I'd say that the tutorial text (by Dan Shafer) and the file starter1.py
are not in sync.

The word 'self' doesn't appear in the source file, it isn't a keyword
(just a convention) or a literal, and it isn't imported by wildcard or
some other trickery. So just by inspection you can tell that the name
isn't defined at the point you are trying to use it, and so using the
name anywhere other than as the target of an assignment (is that called
an 'lvalue' ?) will cause a NameError.

I think the problem begins around where the tutorial says:
-----
Here's the important part to focus on:

   def on_menuFileExit_select(self, event):
        pass
-----

Based on the indentation and other clues, that was probably supposed to
be a method of the Minimal class, but it doesn't exist in the
starter1.py file. Just stick it in (as a method of that class) and
things should work.

FYI here is the version of starter1.py from my installed PythonCard
0.8.1:

#!/usr/bin/python

"""
__version__ = "$Revision: 1.6 $"
__date__ = "$Date: 2004/05/05 16:53:23 $"
"""

from PythonCard import model


class Minimal(model.Background):
    pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
    app = model.Application(Minimal)
    app.MainLoop()



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 07:11:11 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:11:11 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <m3irvma9w3.fsf@invalid.address>
	<djjn2f$n2f$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3sbohtFmqs4eU1@news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <djqckg$3ra$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Sibylle Koczian wrote:

> David Schwartz schrieb:

>>     When you are not in the majority, you are going to face
>> inconveniences. You'd face the same inconvenience if you wanted to
>> buy a new car without seats. Most people wants cars with seats, so
>> that's the way they're packaged.
>>

> What a stupid comparison! A computer without Windows is a computer
> with another operating system. It isn't even comparable to a car with
> specially expensive non standard seats.

    It is comparable in the only sense in which I used a comparison. More 
people want a computer with Windows preinstalled than want it any other way. 
Similarly, more people want a car with standard seats preinstalled than want 
it any other way.

    Who said anything about 'specially expensive'? Are you pretending I said 
that just so you can refute it?

    It kind of reminds me of a scene from Futurama, which went roughly like 
this:

    Leela: We need to get some money.

    Fry: Well how are we going to do that? A daring daylight robbery of Fort 
Knox on elephant back? That's the dumbest idea I ever heard!

    DS




From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Fri Oct 28 14:02:29 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:02:29 -0400
Subject: Why doesn't this work? :)
Message-ID: <1130522549.4095.19.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Jumping right into the code (which should speak for itself):

# -----------------------------------

try:
	# this will fail and be caught
	# below, weeee
	import foobar

except ImportError, error:
	class foobar:
		@staticmethod
		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
			return None

print foobar.bg

# -----------------------------------

This doesn't work and I'm just curious as to why? I can, of course, make
__getattr__ non-static, instantiate a foolbar object, and everything
works; but, the "idea" above seems cleaner and whatnot. :)

Am I misunderstanding something fundamental about the builtin __*
functions? Can they not be "static?"

No rush on this, just curious. I'm using the following in a more general
way, and it works fine for now... :)

# -----------------------------------

try:
	import foobar

except ImportError, error:
	class Foobar:
		def __getattr__(*args, **kargs):
			return None

	foobar = Foobar()

print foobar.bg

# -----------------------------------




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 10:52:40 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:52:40 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130122476.079450.216280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4wiqv.m4hrpogqt6tvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130127914.446263.222800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<435cb299$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1h4xep9.1qqp5prje5wb1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Kent Johnson <kent37 at tds.net> wrote:
   ...
> For example to open a file and read from it uses two closures, one to wrap
> a block with the file open/close, one to iterate lines (from the pickaxe
> book):
> 
> File.open("testfile") do |file|
>   file.each_line { |line| puts line }
> end

Good example -- Ruby blocks are used both for iteration, and for
non-iterative wrapping of a single action with "try-finally" semantics.

Python's generators, up to 2.4, don't really support the non-iterative
part of this well, and have other limitations (they can get values "out"
with yield, but can't easily or naturally get results back "in"...).  In
the forthcoming 2.5, Python generators will be enriched with enough
functionality for these purposes, and a new statement "with" to clearly
indicate the non-iterative case (while "for" indicates iteration).

So, in Python 2.5, the above snippet may become, in Python:

with opening("testfile") as my_file:
    for line in my_file:
        print line,

The fact that 2.5 will acquire extra functionality to "round out"
generators &c to the power of Ruby blocks may be taken as a clear
indication that, right now (Ruby 1.8.* vs Python 2.4.*), Ruby's blocks
are somewhat more powerful.  As for the differences in style that will
remain when Python 2.5 is born, we'll be back to "personal taste" level
issues, it appears to me.


Alex


From noahbedford at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 19:51:26 2005
From: noahbedford at gmail.com (noah bedford)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:51:26 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk> <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.40.32.740000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<0trik1ldrtvuhsdvoai4a7h34q7la1pehl@4ax.com>
	<dic3ju.1is.1@news.isolution.nl>
	<8v0rk1hjh0k6q2estgqc19i0da59fgurse@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20051022195126.586c645f@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:50:22 GMT
Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

>It is almost like providing ladders and setting out cookies and milk
>for the burglars.

Fire escapes at christmas.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct  9 06:26:23 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 11:26:23 +0100
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <4348e72f$0$11133$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4348e72f$0$11133$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <diar88$1ka$1@sea.gmane.org>

al wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh a ?crit :
> 
>>if you have a fear of introducing new local variables, you have problems
>>that cannot be solved by syntax.
> 
> 
> Dear Fredrik,
> 
> I have read the original messages on fr.comp.lang.python, and I don't 
> understand your answer.
> 
> It is not about a fear of introducing new local variables, but for me it 
> is an elegant solution to a common problem, to avoid creation of useless 
> variables (what in french we call "variables muettes", like indexes in 
> loops who are just there because some langages level is too low).
> 
> It also avoid the increase of parenthesis depth, and so the readability 
> is enhanced.
> 
> And it solve a problem that in all object oriented langages, a method 
> that process 2 or more different classes of objets belongs just to one 
> of those classes.
> 
> All this kind of problems appears often to me (and in different 
> langages), and contrarily to you, I'm very impressed by the compacity 
> and elegance of the solution. I think it would be nice if implemented in 
> different langages (because it breaks nothing), and firstly Python.
> 
> Best regards,
> Al
> 
> PS : sorry for my approximative english, but my natural langage is french.

It seems to me that what you proposed was a "solution", that seems 
obvious only to you, to a problem perceived only by you.

I am afraid you would have to work rather harder to persuade me that 
there is a problem, let alone that you have found the solution to it.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 21 22:43:23 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:43:23 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2394.1129943442.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>	<3nc*FXJ1q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>	<11lin723i0e3k80@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.2394.1129943442.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4359a541$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Bryan wrote:
> i would not say sion's ratio of 5:1 is dubious.  for what it's worth, 
> i've written i pretty complex program in jython over the last year.  
> jython compiles to java source code and the number of generated java 
> lines to the jython lines is 4:1.

Ugh. The code generated by jythonc is *nothing like* the code you would write by hand to do the same thing. This is a meaningless comparison.

Kent


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct  5 04:51:57 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 08:51:57 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrndk751c.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
>>> Have those of you who think that the lack of required declarations in
>>> Python is a huge weakness given any thought to the impact that adding
>>> them would have on the rest of the language? I can't imagine how any
>>> language with required declarations could even remotely resemble
>>> Python.
>> 
>> What's the big deal?  Perl has an option for flagging undeclared
>> variables with warnings ("perl -w") or errors ("use strict") and Perl
>> docs I've seen advise using at least "perl -w" routinely.  Those
>> didn't have much impact.  Python already has a "global" declaration;
>> how does it de-Pythonize the language if there's also a "local"
>> declaration and an option to flag any variable that's not declared as
>> one or the other?
>
> The difference is that perl actually needs 'use strict' to be useful for 
> anything more than trivial scripts. Without 'use strict' you can reference 
> any variable name without getting an error. Python takes a stricter 
> approach to begin with by throwing an exception if you reference an 
> undefined variable.
>
> This only leaves the 'assigning to a different name than the one we 
> intended' problem which seems to worry some people here, and as has been 
> explained in great detail it incurs a cost to anyone reading the code for 
> what most Python users consider to be a very small benefit.

It also is one possibility to implement writable closures.

One could for instace have a 'declare' have the effect that
if on a more inner scope such a declared variable is (re)bound it
will rebind the declared variable instead of binding a local name.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct  4 05:32:46 2005
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:32:46 +0200
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python, or go with a dot net
	language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
Message-ID: <43424bee$0$38666$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

spiffo wrote:
> The Main Issue in a nutshell
> 
> I am a corporate developer, working for a single company. Got a new project
> coming up and wondering if I should stay with Python for this new, fairly
> large project, are jump back on the 'safe' M$ bandwagon using a dot net
> language?


Hehe ...

I can run my very first Python program right now in the current version 
of Python. I cannot even find a platform to run my .asp code from that 
same timeframe ... So much for 'safe'!


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 19 06:15:03 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:15:03 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com> <divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj56ba$2oe$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6 at 4ax.com...

> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 01:54:14 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    They have obligations to their clients because (and only because)
>>failure to provide the services they contract to provide will result in
>>lawsuits and harm to the shareholders. All other obligations come from the
>>harm these failures will do to the shareholders.

> That's the view of Republican, but it is not the only view.  Some
> might say the law trumps that. It does not matter if breaking the law
> would be more profitable, you still don't do it.

    Did I say their obligation was to secure their shareholders as much 
profit as possible? I said their obligation was to their shareholders.

    I am only continuing this off-topic thread on newsgroups that probably 
don't want it because it is a basic principle of fairness that a false or 
distorted comment deserves an rebuttal anywhere that false or distorted 
comment appears. However, it doesn't deserve a full debate anywhere except 
where it's on-topic.

    DS




From david at jotax.com  Wed Oct 26 12:03:15 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 09:03:15 -0700
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <4SM7f.4313$Zd.1145@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4SM7f.4313$Zd.1145@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130342595.533405.191920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Sadly Ron,  c_y can only see index and showall in your example.



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct 18 13:32:28 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 10:32:28 -0700
Subject: html parser?
References: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<mailman.2212.1129632708.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dj2lq0$s27$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<qysxtmgb7ql.kadcgt64tvy2.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <1129656748.638138.237120@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> For simple things like that "BeautifulSoup" might be overkill.

[HTMLParser example]

I've used SGMLParser with some success before, although the SAX-style
processing is objectionable to many people. One alternative is to use
libxml2dom [1] and to parse documents as HTML:

import libxml2dom, urllib
url = 'http://www.python.org'
doc = libxml2dom.parse(urllib.urlopen(url), html=1)
anchors = doc.xpath("//a")

Currently, the parseURI function in libxml2dom doesn't do HTML parsing,
mostly because I haven't yet figured out what combination of parsing
options have to be set to make it happen, but a combination of urllib
and libxml2dom should perform adequately. In the above example, you'd
process the nodes in the anchors list to get the desired results.

Paul

[1] http://www.python.org/pypi/libxml2dom



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct  4 12:28:38 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:28:38 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86psqli6vd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au> writes:
>> My gut reaction is that it's a wash. The time taken to declare
>> variables in well-written code in a well-designed language - meaning
>> the declarations and use will be close together - isn't all that
>> great, but neither are the savings.
> You've gone from thinking about the implementation of the algorithm to
> thinking about how to satisfy the requirements of the compiler. As
> context switches go, it isn't as big as the edit-compile-make-run
> method of testing, but it is still a context switch.

I'm making context switches all the time when programming. I go from
thinking about the problem in terms of the problem, to thinking about
in terms of programming language objects, to thinking about the syntax
for expressing those objects. Adding another one does have a cost -
but it's no big deal.

> I don't know whether there are languages that will check everything in
> that way. If there aren't, then perhaps there should be. But Python
> shouldn't be one of them.

Right. You're doing different things when you program in a language
like Python, vs. Eiffel (which is where I drew most of my checks
from). Each does what it does well - but they don't do the same
things.

> Specifying every last detail about the objects making up the space
> shuttle is one of the reasons why it costs umpty-bazillion dollars
> to build one, and almost as much to maintain it -- and it still has
> a safety record worse than most $10,000 cars.

As if a something that's designed to literally blow you off the face
of the earth could reasonably be compared with an internal combustion
engine that never leaves the ground for safety. The shuttle has one of
the best safety records around for vehicles that share it's
purpose. It's doing something that's inherently very dangerous, that
we are still learning how to do. Overengineering is the only way to
get any measure of safety.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Fri Oct 21 13:51:19 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:51:19 +0100
Subject: Binding a variable?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2382.1129913666.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211844320.14125@urchin.earth.li>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Paul Dale wrote:

> Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that
>
> temp = 5
> list = [ temp ]
> temp == 6
> list
>
> would show
>
> list = [ 6 ]

As you know by now, no. Like any problem in programming, this can be 
solved with a layer of abstraction: you need an object which behaves a bit 
like a variable, so that you can have multiple references to it. The 
simplest solution is to use a single-element list:

>>> temp = [None] # set up the list
>>> temp[0] = 5
>>> list = [temp]
>>> temp[0] = 6
>>> list
[[6]]

I think this is a bit ugly - the point of a list is to hold a sequence of 
things, so doing this strikes me as a bit of an abuse.

An alternative would be a class:

class var:
 	def __init__(self, value=None):
 		self.value = value
 	def __str__(self): # not necessary, but handy
 		return "<<" + str(self.val) + ">>"

>>> temp = var()
>>> temp.value = 5
>>> list = [temp]
>>> temp.value = 6
>>> list
[<<6>>]

This is more heavyweight, in terms of both code and execution resources, 
but it makes your intent clearer, which might make it worthwhile.

tom

-- 
Transform your language.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 01:59:03 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 30 Sep 2005 22:59:03 -0700
Subject: PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1309.1128130211.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net><0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<mailman.1309.1128130211.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128146343.001242.66990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Terry Reedy ha scritto:

> "Dave Benjamin" <ramen at lackingtalent.com> >
> > Hooray! After years of arguing over which syntax to use, and finally
> > giving up since nobody could agree,
>
> I understand that this has become the local 'politically correct' view, but
> as a participant in the discussion, I know it not true and actively
> deceptive.  The community was prevented from coming to a decision.  There
> was a 'primary' vote with an incumbent, 15 challengers, and several
> write-ins.  But there was no runoff.
<snip history of PEP 308>

FWIW, I think Terry's recollection is pretty close to the "historical
truth".
Guido could have decided two years ago, sparing us the PEP 308 ordalia.
So, I am happy that at the end we will have a conditional operator, but
I
am not happy of how the process worked out. It was just an enormous
waste
of resources that could have been employed much better :-(

    Michele Simionato



From maravilloso at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 05:49:13 2005
From: maravilloso at gmail.com (Maravilloso)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 02:49:13 -0700
Subject: Printing a document in the default network printer under Windows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2582.1130319609.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2582.1130319609.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130320153.342542.81580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Perfect, thanks!

I owe you now some PyBeers :-)



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 24 04:49:01 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:49:01 +0200
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130104962.547011.277540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2448.1130100075.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130104962.547011.277540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435c9ffe$0$664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

PyPK wrote:
> hmm Thats one thing. Also I was thinking of something like benefites of
> python over other languages.

That's fairly context-dependant *and* subjective.

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From fergdeff at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:54:19 2005
From: fergdeff at gmail.com (ferg)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:54:19 -0700
Subject: MoinMoin - Can't create new pages
Message-ID: <1130252059.474472.102670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've checked all the FAQs and help - spent a couple of hours on this
now and it's really bugging me.

I've got Moin 1.3.5 installed on IIS 5.0.
I can view and edit pages without any problems, but cannot create new
pages - either trough the GUI, or by creating a new WikiName and
clicking on it.
I'm stumped as to whether this is a Moin ACL problem (played around a
lot with this, but to no avail) or perhaps an IIS config problem
(though the Web Account has full control to the data directory).
The Wiki is an internal intranet one for our development group, so I
don't really care if everyone is an admin, I just need to be able to
create new pages anyway.

Here is my wikiconfig.py

>>>> FILE START >>>>
# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
# IMPORTANT! This encoding (charset) setting MUST be correct! If you
live in a
# western country and you don't know that you use utf-8, you probably
want to
# use iso-8859-1 (or some other iso charset). If you use utf-8 (a
Unicode
# encoding) you MUST use: coding: utf-8
# That setting must match the encoding your editor uses when you modify
the
# settings below. If it does not, special non-ASCII chars will be
wrong.

"""
    MoinMoin - Configuration for a single wiki

    If you run a single wiki only, you can omit the farmconfig.py
config
    file and just use wikiconfig.py - it will be used for every request
    we get in that case.

    Note that there are more config options than you'll find in
    the version of this file that is installed by default; see
    the module MoinMoin.multiconfig for a full list of names and their
    default values.

    Also, the URL http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnConfiguration
has
    a list of config options.

    @copyright: 2000-2005 by Juergen Hermann <jh at web.de>
    @license: GNU GPL, see COPYING for details.
"""

from MoinMoin.multiconfig import DefaultConfig


class Config(DefaultConfig):

    # Wiki identity
----------------------------------------------------

    # Site name, used by default for wiki name-logo [Unicode]
    sitename = u'ISS Wiki'

    # Wiki logo. You can use an image, text or both. [Unicode]
    # Example: u'<img src="/wiki/mywiki.png" alt="My Wiki">My Wiki'
    # For no logo or text, use ''
    logo_string = sitename

    # The interwiki name used in interwiki links
    interwikiname = None


    # Critical setup
---------------------------------------------------

    # Misconfiguration here will render your wiki unusable. Check that
    # all directories are accessible by the web server or moin server.

    # If you encounter problems, try to set data_dir and
data_underlay_dir
    # to absolute paths.

    # Where your mutable wiki pages are. You want to make regular
    # backups of this directory.
    data_dir = './data/'

    # Where read-only system and help page are. You might want to share
    # this directory between several wikis. When you update MoinMoin,
    # you can safely replace the underlay directory with a new one.
This
    # directory is part of MoinMoin distribution, you don't have to
    # backup it.
    data_underlay_dir = './underlay/'

    # This must be '/wiki' for twisted and standalone. For CGI, it
should
    # match your Apache Alias setting.
    url_prefix = '/wiki'


    # Security
----------------------------------------------------------

    # Security critical actions (disabled by default)
    # Uncomment to enable options you like.
    #allowed_actions = ['DeletePage', 'AttachFile', 'RenamePage']

    # Enable acl (0 to disable)
    acl_enabled = 1

    # IMPORTANT: grant yourself admin rights! replace YourName with
    # your user name. See HelpOnAccessControlLists for more help.
    # All acl_rights_xxx options must use unicode [Unicode]
    acl_rights_before =
u"arkprod\it_32564:read,write,delete,revert,admin"

    # Link spam protection for public wikis (Uncomment to enable)
    # Needs a reliable internet connection.
    #from MoinMoin.util.antispam import SecurityPolicy



    # Mail
--------------------------------------------------------------

    # Configure to enable subscribing to pages (disabled by default)
    # or sending forgotten passwords.

    # SMTP server, e.g. "mail.provider.com" (empty or None to disable
mail)
    mail_smarthost = ""

    # The return address, e.g "My Wiki <noreply at mywiki.org>"
    mail_from = ""

    # "user pwd" if you need to use SMTP AUTH
    mail_login = ""


    # User interface
----------------------------------------------------

    # Add your wikis important pages at the end. It is not recommended
to
    # remove the default links.  Leave room for user links - don't use
    # more than 6 short items.
    # You MUST use Unicode strings here, but you need not use localized
    # page names for system and help pages, those will be used
automatically
    # according to the user selected language. [Unicode]
    navi_bar = [
        # Will use page_front_page, (default FrontPage)
        u'%(page_front_page)s',
        u'RecentChanges',
        u'FindPage',
        u'HelpContents',
    ]

    # The default theme anonymous or new users get
    theme_default = 'modern'


    # Language options
--------------------------------------------------

    # See http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ConfigMarket for configuration
in
    # YOUR language that other people contributed.

    # The main wiki language, set the direction of the wiki pages
    default_lang = 'en'

    # You must use Unicode strings here [Unicode]
    page_category_regex = u'^Category[A-Z]'
    page_dict_regex = u'[a-z]Dict$'
    page_form_regex = u'[a-z]Form$'
    page_group_regex = u'[a-z]Group$'
    page_template_regex = u'[a-z]Template$'

    # Content options
---------------------------------------------------

    # Show users hostnames in RecentChanges
    show_hosts = 1

    # Enumerate headlines?
    show_section_numbers = 0

    # Charts size, require gdchart (Set to None to disable).
    chart_options = {'width': 600, 'height': 300}
>>>>> FILE END >>>>>>



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Fri Oct 21 14:36:02 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:36:02 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <43593468$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

bruno modulix wrote:
> ... Another language that failed to make it to the mainstream but is
> worth giving a try is Smalltalk - the father of OOPLs (Simula being the
> GrandFather). 
I would say Simula is the forefather of modern OOPLs, and Smalltalk is
the toofather.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 12:40:49 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:40:49 +0100
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di0vma$hvr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Flavio wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>  I heard time and again that you are not _supposed_ to update the
> locals dictionary.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why, if the following code works, I should not do
> this?
> 
> #
> # Extending Local namespace
> #
> 
> def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):
> 
> 	print 'locals:',locals()
> 	locals().update(args)
> 	print locals()
> 
> e = {'s':3,'e':4}
> fun(k=10,v=32,**e)
> 
Because it depends on the current implementation and isn't guaranteeed 
to work in the future.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 00:59:10 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:59:10 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<divdik$vmj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F2A7D8CBC35castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<dj1flg$njb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86h8l15n3odeetug7j231fi9rb3jrauo7h@4ax.com>
	<dj1ng4$qbn$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7809l15uqvhvmleds067rj7af6acpot47v@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:43:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    I understand why the argument is invalid. I'm presenting it as an 
>example of a similar invalid argument.

Not every post is meant to contradict or inform the OP.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Wed Oct  5 12:33:27 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:33:27 -0600
Subject: change a value to NULL?
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F0F@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

Thanks, being new to this, I wasn't sure if I should use None, Null,
Nope, Nada, or Nil!  

I'm going to be loading a list into an MS Access db.  Do you know if I
load None into an Access field if Access will recognize that as
blank/null?  I suppose I'll just go test it out.

Thanks again...

Kevin Bell


-----Original Message-----
From: Laszlo Zsolt Nagy [mailto:gandalf at designaproduct.biz] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:18 AM
To: Bell, Kevin; python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: change a value to NULL?

Bell, Kevin wrote:

>I'm pulling a list of numbers from MS Excel, but occasionally if there
>is no data from excel, the value is an asterisk, but I need to make it
>null.  
>
>What is the best way to do that?  Thus far, I'm using:
>
>
>for value in myRange:
>       try:
>           intV = int(value)
>           print intV
>       except:
>           print "its an asterisk" 
>  
>
I'm affraid I did not understand what is your real problem.
Here is an answer, anyway.

When converting a string intoto an int, you should use TypeError to trap

type errors only:

try:
  intV = int(value)
except TypeError:
  intV = None

print intV # It will be None if 'value' is not an int

Best,

   Les





From fccoelho at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:04:08 2005
From: fccoelho at gmail.com (Flavio)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:04:08 -0700
Subject: updating local()
In-Reply-To: <3qkmjcFfbem9U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3qkmjcFfbem9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1128607448.235410.152590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Ok, its not thousands, but more like dozens of variables...
I am reading a large form from the web which returns a lot of values.
(I am Using cherrypy)

I know I could pass these variables around as:

def some_function(**variables):
    ...

some_function(**variables)

but its a pain in the neck to have to refer to them as
variables['whatever']...

dont you think? 

Flavio



From digitalsuicide at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 10:18:30 2005
From: digitalsuicide at gmail.com (dataw0lf)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:18:30 -0600
Subject: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.
In-Reply-To: <dij3qn$i1v$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <slrndkpt9c.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<dij3qn$i1v$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <434D1B36.4040407@gmail.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Does this type bear any relationship at all to what most people call a 
> tree, which is a bifurcated data structure? Or do you call it a tree for 
> some other reason?

I'd think that the 'avl' part would answer that question.

!google avl tree

-- 

Joshua Simpson -- dataw0lf.org
Lead Network Administrator/Engineer Aero-Graphics Inc.
jsimpson at aero-graphics.com


From dinamo99 at lycos.com  Sun Oct 23 01:56:54 2005
From: dinamo99 at lycos.com (Joe)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:56:54 GMT
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<1h4usyj.1ndvf691bu0zvuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130044581.644967.254230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <GCF6f.268294$1i.188500@pd7tw2no>


SPE is great I suggest you take a look at it 
http://www.stani.be/python/spe/

bonono at gmail.com wrote:
>> On the Mac, I think the XCode integration you get with PyObjC is
>> probably best.  I know there are plugins for Eclipse but haven't tried
>> any personally, so it's hard to make suggestions (I'm a dinosaur, and I
>> prefer to develop with GVim + a command-line tool, such as Python's own
>> interactive mode...).  I'm not sure if BlackAdder (simplest and fastest
>> to learn) and WingIDE (probably THE one most powerful Python IDE) work
>> on the Mac (shame on me, as a Python AND Mac enthusiast, for not having
>> tried them...), but they're surely worth investigating.  Ditto for
>> ActiveState's Komodo tool...
>> 
>> 
>> Alex



From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Thu Oct 13 04:23:06 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:23:06 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<od9rk19sjg2ntd34tb7hkpvla2mq7ob71h@4ax.com>
	<86vf02uhae.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<f4urk19osotr10huvsec8m81ulluut9k0u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <KPo3f.23402$U9.22309@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:17:45 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
 
>>No, that's what makes email a vector for infection. What makes using
>>the address book - for whatever purpose - possible for viruses is
>>having an API that allows arbitrary code to access it. But you have to
>>have that API - your customers are going to insist that they be able
>>to use their address book from third party applications.
 
> An automated change of address is possible today. It would be LESS
> easy to pull off under the scheme I proposed that requires digital
> signatures.

How? I keep my address book on my Palm as I send mail from different
computers? I suspect many other people do as well.

Axel


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 17:07:58 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:07:58 -0000
Subject: Call C functions from Python
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11k5mpg999eos1f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128457689.105158.24700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11k5rpekldqd29e@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Java and Swing <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:
> ok i got ctypes...now i try
>
>>> from ctypes import *
>>> myApp = CDLL("C:\\myapp.dll")

I've never seen that sort of usage before.  I don't know what
CDLL does, and I can't find it in the docs anywhere.

Based on my reading of the tutorial, I would have tried eitehr

  myApp = cdll.myapp
or
  myApp = cdll.LoadLibrary("C:/myapp.dll")

> ..now how can I call functions on in myapp.dll? From the
> tutorial I am not sure..

Assuming CDLL did something equivalent to cdll.LoadLibrary(),
I'd try:

   myApp.FuncName()

I've always done it the way it's done in the tutorial:

  mylib = windll.Lib_Name
  mylib.myFuncName() 

> i try, dir(cdll.myApp) and dir(myApp)..but don't see my
> functions listed.

I don't think dir() works on dll's like that.  I certainly
don't see it mentioned in the tutorial.  What happened when you
tried calling the function the way the tutorial does?

  myapp = cdll.myapp
  myapp.MyFunc()  

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! Is my fallout
                                  at               shelter termite proof?
                               visi.com            


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 12:36:33 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:36:33 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86y84k95c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h4vl5j.1sg46l1irzgfmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
   ...
> > Of course, these results only apply where the "complexity" (e.g., number
> > of operators, for example) in a single line of code is constant.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The tests ranged over
> things from PL/I to assembler. Are you saying that those two languages
> have the same "complexity in a single line"?

Not necessarily, since PL/I, for example, is quite capable of usages at
extremes of operator density per line.  So, it doesn't even have "the
same complexity as itself", if used in widely different layout styles.

If the studies imply otherwise, then I'm reminded of the fact that both
Galileo and Newton published alleged experimental data which can be
shown to be "too good to be true" (fits the theories too well, according
to chi-square tests etc)...


> > for item in sequence: blaap(item)
> >
> > or
> >
> > for item in sequence:
> >     blaap(item)
> >
> > are EXACTLY as easy (or hard) to write, maintain, and document -- it's
> > totally irrelevant that the number of lines of code has "doubled" in the
> > second (more standard) layout of the code!-)
> 
> The studies didn't deal with maintenance. They only dealt with
> documentation in so far as code was commented.
> 
> On the other hand, studies of reading comprehension have shown that
> people can read and comprehend faster if the line lengths fall within
> certain ranges. While it's a stretch to assume those studies apply to
> code, I'd personally be hesitant to assume they don't apply without
> some reseach. If they do apply, then your claims about the difficulty
> of maintaining and documenting being independent of the textual line
> lengths are wrong. And since writing code inevitable involves
> debugging it - and the studies specified debugged lines - then the
> line length could affect how hard the code is to write as well.

If time to code depends on textual line lengths, then it cannot solely
depend on number of lines at the same time.  If, as you say, the studies
"prove" that speed of delivering debugged code depends strictly on the
LOCs in the delivered code, then those studies would also be showing
that the textual length of the lines is irrelevant to that speed (since,
depending on coding styles, in most languages one can trade off
textually longer lines for fewer lines).

OTOH, the following "mental experiment" shows that the purported
deterministic connection of coding time to LOC can't really hold:

say that two programmers, Able and Baker, are given exactly the same
task to accomplish in (say) language C, and end up with exactly the same
correct source code for the resulting function;

Baker, being a honest toiling artisan, codes and debugs his code in
"expansive" style, with lots of line breaks (as lots of programming
shops practice), so, given the final code looks like:
    while (foo())
      {
        bar();
        baz();
      }
(etc), he's coding 5 lines for each such loop;

Able, being able, codes and debugs extremely crammed code, so the same
final code looks, when Able is working on it, like:
    while (foo()) { bar(); baz(); }
so, Able is coding 1 line for each such loop, 5 times less than Baker
(thus, by hypothesis, Able must be done 5 times faster);

when Able's done coding and debugging, he runs a "code beautifier"
utility which runs in negligible time (compared to the time it takes to
code and debug the program) and easily produces the same "expansively"
laid-out code as Baker worked with all the time.

So, Able is 5 times faster than Baker yet delivers identical final code,
based, please note, not on any substantial difference in skill, but
strictly on a trivial trick hinging on a popular and widely used kind of
code-reformatting utility.


Real-life observation suggests that working with extremely crammed code
(to minimize number of lines) and beautifying it at the end is in fact
not a sensible coding strategy and cannot deliver such huge increases in
coding (and debugging) speed.  Thus, either those studies or your
reading of them must be fatally flawed in this respect (most likely,
some "putting hands forward" footnote about coding styles and tools in
use was omitted from the summaries, or neglected in the reading).

Such misunderstandings have seriously damaged the practice of
programming (and managements of programming) in the past.  For example,
shops evaluating coders' productivity in terms of lines of code have
convinced their coders to distort their style to emit more lines of code
in order to be measured as more productive -- it's generally trivial to
do so, of course, in many cases, e.g.
    for i in range(100):
        a[i] = i*i
can easily become 100 lines "a[0] = 0" and so on (easily produced by
copy and paste or editor macros, or other similarly trivial means).  At
the other extreme, some coders (particularly in languages suitable for
extreme density, such as Perl) delight in producing "one-liner"
(unreadable) ``very clever'' equivalents of straightforward loops that
would take up a few lines if written in the obvious way instead.

The textual measure of lines of code is extremely easy to obtain, and
pretty easy to adjust to account for some obvious first-order effects
(e.g., ignoring comments and whitespace, counting logical lines rather
than physical ones, etc), and that, no doubt, accounts for its undying
popularity -- but it IS really a terrible measurement for "actual
program size and complexity".

Moreover, even if you normalized "program size" by suitable language
specific factors (number of operators, decision points, cyclomatic
complexity, etc), the correlation between program size and time to code
it would still only hold within broadly defined areas, not across the
board.  I believe "The mythical man-month" was the first widely read
work to point out how much harder it is to debug programs that use
unrestrained concurrency (in today's terms, think of multithreading
without any of the modern theory and helpers for it), which Brooks
called "system programs", compared to "ordinary" sequential code (which
Brooks called "application programs" -- the terminology is quite dated,
but the deep distinction remains valid).  Also: one huge monolithic
program using global variables for everything is going to have
complexity (and time to delivery of debugged code) that grows way more
than linearly with program size; to keep a relation that's close to
linear (though in no case can exact linearity be repeatably achieved for
sufficiently large programming systems, I fear), we employ a huge
variety of techniques to make our software systems more modular.


It IS important to realize that higher level languages, by making
programs of equivalent functionality (and with comparable intrinsic
difficulty, modularity, etc) "textually smaller" (and thereby
"conceptually" smaller), raises program productivity.  But using "lines
of code", without all the appropriate qualifications, for these
measurements, is not appropriate.  Even the definition of a language's
level in terms of LOCs per function point is too "rough and ready" and
thus suffers from this issue (function points as a language-independent
measure of a coding task's "size" have their own issues, but much
smaller ones than LOCs as a measure of a delivered code's size).


Consider the analogy of measuring a writing task (in, say, English) by
number of delivered words -- a very popular measure, too.  No doubt, all
other things being equal, it may take a writer about twice as much to
deliver 2000 copy-edited words than to deliver 1000.  But... all other
things are rarely equal.  To me, for example, it often comes most
natural to take about 500 words to explain and illustrate one concept;
but when I need to be concise, I will then take a lot of time to edit
and re-edit that text until just about all of the same issues are put
across in 200 words or less.  It may take me twice as long to rewrite
the original 500 words into 200, as it took to put down the 500 words in
the first place -- which helps explains why many of my posts are so
long, as I don't take all the time to re-edit them, and why it taks so
long to write a "Nutshell" series book, where conciseness is crucial.

Nor it is only my own issue... remember Pascal's "Lettres Provinciales",
and the famous apology about "I am sorry that this letter is so long,
but I did not have the time to write a shorter one"!-)


Alex


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 22:51:06 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:51:06 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <u3dbl1l2pbsdluivl7l4enl9k440ci9tif@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>>
>>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
>>
>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.
>
>    That's almost as convincing as "that's what you think".

If your only obligation is to a group of person, that makes you a sort
of slave. What about obligations to family, community, yourself?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Mon Oct 17 12:57:49 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:57:49 -0700
Subject: Run process with timeout
In-Reply-To: <1h4kw2y.1r4xzk31tnakucN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1129547240.998935.126970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4kw2y.1r4xzk31tnakucN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051017165749.GF5267@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 17, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Natan <natanvivo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have a python script under linux where I poll many hundreds of
> > interfaces with mrtg every 5 minutes. Today I create some threads and
> > use os.system(command) to run the process, but some of them just hang.
> > I would like to terminate the process after 15 seconds if it doesn't
> > finish, but os.system() doesn't have any timeout parameter.
> 
> Use the subprocess module.  With a subprocess.Popen object, you can
> ... kill it (use its .pid attribute).

The problem I've run into with this approach is the inability to kill
the pid's children.  Most often I'm not so fortunate to be able to
depend on the process to not be doing its own forking.  So here's a
simplified use case:

   $ cat sleep10.sh
   #! /bin/bash
   sleep 10  # does not get killed
   $
   $ cat to3.py
   #! /usr/bin/env python

   from subprocess import Popen
   from time import sleep
   from os import kill
   from signal import SIGTERM

   p = Popen(['./sleep10.sh'])
   sleep(3)
   kill(p.pid, SIGTERM)     # Oops, won't kill p.pid's children.
   ##kill(-p.pid, SIGTERM)  # Won't work since not group leader,
                            #  and I'd rather avoid fork/dup/exec.
   $
   $ ./to3.py
   $ # to3.py finished but sleep 10 still running 

If you try this you will see that sleep10.sh gets killed, but its 
"sleep 10" subprocess does not, and runs for an additional 7 seconds.

I presently rely on an ugly script to do this properly.  It uses low
level calls such as pipe, close, dup2, fork, exec, setpgrp, etc.  I
won't post that here for brevity's sake (unless requested).  For this
case it would fork/exec sleep10.sh, make it a group leader, and the
parent would kill its group.

Is there any way to enable Python's subprocess module to do (implicit?)
group setup to ease killing of all children?  If not, is it a reasonable
RFE?

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 06:40:32 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:40:32 GMT
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <87zmopnco7.fsf@linux.site>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<87zmopnco7.fsf@linux.site>
Message-ID: <Qon9f.25804$m%6.21030@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Alex Hunsley <lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> writes:
> 
> 
>>Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I should have said is that I don't like the
>>idea of a typo in an assignment causing the assigning of the wrong thing.
>>e.g. imagine a simple value-holding class:
>>
>>class Values:
>>	pass
>>
>>v = Values()
>>
>>v.conductoin = 10
>>
>>
>>... I meant to type 'conduction' in the source but spelt it wrong.
>>My value won't be there when elsewhere I refer to the correct attribute:
>>"conduction".
> 
> 
> Recently there was a big thread where that was raised again (yep, you're not
> the first, nor the second, nor the third...).  You should write unittests, use
> tools like pychecker, pylint, etc. 

Btw, can you recall the subject line of the thread? I'd like to google 
groups for it and have a read of that thread...
ta!
alex

> 


From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 21:51:02 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 18:51:02 -0700
Subject: Newbie needs help. Setting PYTHONDOCS to read HTML.
In-Reply-To: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>
References: <lsKdnWPf2p8nj9beRVn-ug@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1128995462.893750.155420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

You can use Python regardless of the docs... of course.  Not sure what
you mean there.

As far as setting an Environment Variable, though:

(1) Right-Click My Computer, go to Properties

(2) Go to the Advanced tab

(3) Click Environment Variables (bottom middle-ish)

(4) Under "User Variables" click New,

(5)
Variable name: PYTHONDOCS
Variable value: C:\Python24

Of course, the value needs to be the correct folder that you said you
dropped the HTML docs into.



From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 05:57:22 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 02:57:22 -0700
Subject: A problem while using urllib
Message-ID: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   I was using urllib to grab urls from web. here is the work flow of
my program:

1. Get base url and max number of urls from user
2. Call filter to validate the base url
3. Read the source of the base url and grab all the urls from "href"
property of "a" tag
4. Call filter to validate every url grabbed
5. Continue 3-4 until the number of url grabbed gets the limit

   In filter there is a method like this:

--------------------------------------------------
# check whether the url can be connected
def filteredByConnection(self, url):
   assert url

   try:
      webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url)
   except urllib2.URLError:
      self.logGenerator.log("Error: " + url + " <urlopen error timed
out>")
      return False
   except urllib2.HTTPError:
      self.logGenerator.log("Error: " + url + " not found")
      return False
   self.logGenerator.log("Connecting " + url + " successed")
   webPage.close()
   return True
----------------------------------------------------

   But every time when I ran to the 70 to 75 urls (that means 70-75
urls have been tested via this way), the program will crash and all the
urls left will raise urllib2.URLError until the program exits. I tried
many ways to work it out, using urllib, set a sleep(1) in the filter (I
thought it was the massive urls crashed the program). But none works.
BTW, if I set the url from which the program crashed to base url, the
program will still crashed at the 70-75 url. How can I solve this
problem? thanks for your help

Regards,
Johnny



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 08:56:14 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:56:14 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <43465736$0$11160$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com><4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net><1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews><slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1><slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de><slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org><7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><1128676408.129888.297840@g	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr
	<43465736$0$11160$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <di5r93$u1h$2@sea.gmane.org>

Christophe wrote:
> Fredrik Lundh a ?crit :
> 
>>"Christophe" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It's more of a "Nearly too late" type checking I would say. Not that I
>>>complain but it would be great if there were also some automatic type
>>>checking to catch a few errors as soon as possible.
>>
>>
>>use assert as the soonest possible point.  implementing "type gates" is
>>trivial, if you think you need them.
> 
> 
> Still, it would be great if there were also some automatic type checking 
>   in place. Using assert is hardly automatic and non intrusive.
> 
> I mean, why not ? Why does the compiler let me do that when you know 
> perfectly that that code is incorrect :
> def f():
>       return "a" + 5
> 
> Of course the system can't be perfect but it doesn't need to be. It 
> doesn't need to constrain us in any way but if it can detect some errors 
> early, then it is worth it.

While this is a perfectly acceptable feature request, we should remember 
that Python is developed and maintained by a volunteer team. Do we 
*really* want them spending their time adding "features" like this?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From christian at spam.not  Fri Oct 21 07:29:18 2005
From: christian at spam.not (Christian)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:29:18 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2341.1129880858.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.2341.1129880858.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4358d112$0$187$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Steve Holden wrote:

> ::::::::::::::
> one.py
> ::::::::::::::
> import os
> os.environ['STEVE'] = "You are the man"
> os.system("python two.py")
> print "Ran one"
> ::::::::::::::
> two.py
> ::::::::::::::
> import os
> print "STEVE is", os.environ['STEVE']
> print "Ran two"
> [sholden at headrat tmp]$ python one.py
> STEVE is You are the man
> Ran two
> Ran one
> [sholden at headrat tmp]$
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> regards
>  Steve

Thanks Steve, you're quite right, you are the man. And thanks to all the 
rest of you for your kind help and patient understanding. I have learned 
quite a lot and is about to consider my self advanced to the status of 
Python newbie.

So here is my final question:
Do I call the .sh script with a .py script like this:

os.system("/path/to/the/script/startupscript.sh")


From mystilleef at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 06:30:23 2005
From: mystilleef at gmail.com (Mystilleef)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 03:30:23 -0700
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>
Message-ID: <1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Thank you. That's all I needed. For some reason, I had always assumed
forking was an expensive process. I guess I was ill-informed.



From dudufigueiredo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 13:52:27 2005
From: dudufigueiredo at gmail.com (dudufigueiredo at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 10:52:27 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ok, so the function simplifyed without loops:

def renamer(folder, band):
	archive = #file to transform
	rest = archive[3:]
	print band + " -",rest.capitalize()


obs: the file names came this way(with spaces or apostrophes) from the
cd i imported.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Oct  7 15:01:44 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 14:01:44 -0500
Subject: 2d array slicing problem
In-Reply-To: <1128704653.953332.218930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128704653.953332.218930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051007190144.GA19288@unpythonic.net>

Do you have a simple program that demonstrates the problem?

I have an x86 machine with Python 2.3, and an x86_64 machine with Python 2.4
available.  I wrote a simple test program which performs a slice operation,
but it behaves the same on both platforms.

Here's the program:
#------------------------------------------------------------------------
import numarray, sys, os
print "python:  ", sys.version_info 
print "numarray:", numarray.__version__
print "CPU:     ", os.uname()[-1]

n = numarray.arange(10)
o = numarray.outerproduct(n,n)
p = o[3:7,6:10].copy()
q = numarray.outerproduct([3,4,5,6], [6,7,8,9])
print "Success: ", numarray.alltrue(p.ravel() == q.ravel())
#------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the two results I gathered:

python:   (2, 4, 1, 'final', 0)
numarray: 1.3.3
CPU:      x86_64
Success:  True

python:   (2, 3, 2, 'final', 0)
numarray: 0.9
CPU:      i686
Success:  1

Jeff
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From pink at odahoda.de  Fri Oct 28 06:08:20 2005
From: pink at odahoda.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:08:20 +0200
Subject: How to translate python into C
References: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djst41$n6t$1@online.de>

Johnny Lee wrote:

> Hi,
>    First, I want to know whether the python interpreter translate the
> code directly into machine code, or translate it into C then into
> machine code?

Neither this nor that. The interpreter first compiles the code into python
'byte code' - something similar to machine code, but not it is not targeted
at the CPU of your system, but for a portable virtual machine. This virtual
machine will then execute the byte code, just like a CPU would execute
machine code.

>    Second, if the codes are translated directly into machine codes, how
> can I translate the codes into C COMPLETELY the same? if the codes are
> translated first into C, where can I get the C source?

You may have a look at PyPy. I do not know what it exactly can do, but this
might be interesting for you:
http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/faq.html#how-do-i-compile-my-own-programs

-- 
Benjamin Niemann
Email: pink at odahoda dot de
WWW: http://www.odahoda.de/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 03:53:53 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:53:53 +0200
Subject: pickle
References: <mailman.2505.1130223334.509.python-list@python.org><1130223861.28336.6.camel@blackwidow>
	<1d987df30510250023u5d679c9co4cd6f960df6edf1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djkoah$q3k$1@sea.gmane.org>

Shi Mu wrote:

> what does the following code mean?
>
> y = pickle.load(file("cnumber.pickle", "r"))

open the file "cnumber.pickle" for reading, pass the file handle to
the pickle.load function, and store the result in the "y" variable.

> also, I can not understand "f" in pickle.dump(x, f)

the second argument to pickle is a file handle, opened for writing.
pickle.dump will save the "pickled data" to that file.

</F> 





From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 13 03:04:04 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:04:04 +0100
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1129154738.455062.140750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1945.1129109694.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h4ce9x.v65tbpm7xivfN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<1129154738.455062.140750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434E06E4.8090609@holdenweb.com>

Rune Strand wrote:
> Ok, Alex. I know a good explanation when I see one. Thanks!
> 
Make that "...when someone beats me over the head with it" ;-) Glad you 
have the explanation you needed, anyway.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve at rueb.com  Sun Oct  2 14:43:16 2005
From: steve at rueb.com (Steve Bergman)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:43:16 -0500
Subject: Distributing programs
In-Reply-To: <43402562.284351435@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43402562.284351435@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <43402A44.6070501@rueb.com>

Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl) wrote:

>Yes, and you must also include a blank sheet, signed by you in blood.
>  
>
I thought you only had to do that if you were submitting a patch to 
MySQL, Qt, OpenOffice, or OpenSolaris.  ;-)

-Steve Bergman


From gregpinero at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 12:04:08 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:04:08 -0400
Subject: Windows memory pointers in Python?
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510120904v6bb0d008ub32a00659efd6699@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I'm really lost of on this one. How can I turn this (VB?) code into Python?
Basically I call a function exposed from a dll and it returns me what I
believe is a pointer to a location in memory? Now I need to read that area
to get the string I need. This link has the solution but it is written in
VB:
http://www.contactreview.com/mb/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15670/an/0/page/14(it's
the third post down)

I have to think Python would have something similiar.

Below is my relevant source code just in case you need that too.

I really appriciate any help anyone might have.

--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)

#---My code: (testing the GOLDMINE API)
from ctypes import *
windll.LoadLibrary('GM6S32.dll')
windll.GM6S32.GMW_LoadBDE('J:\\','J:\\GMBase\\',r'J:\\Common\\','user','pw')
windll.GM6S32.GMW_NV_SetValue(container,"AccountNo", "(310)555-1212")
#finally, I call a function to see what I stored:
windll.GM6S32.GMW_NV_GetValue(container, "AccountNo", "'(none)'")
#it returns 16236360
#Now I need to access the string related to this somewhere ...
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From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 15 15:22:51 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:22:51 +1000
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:17:36 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:

>>> I'd prefer a (however) rough characterization
>>> of computational complexity in terms of Big-Oh
>>> (or Big-whatever) *anytime* to marketing-type
>>> characterizations like this one...
>>
>> Oh how naive.
> 
> Why is it that even computer science undergrads
> are required to learn the basics of Big-Oh and
> all that? 

So that they know how to correctly interpret what Big O notation means,
instead of misinterpreting it. Big O notation doesn't tell you everything
you need to know to predict the behaviour of an algorithm. It doesn't even
tell you most of what you need to know about its behaviour. Only actual
*measurement* will tell you what you need to know.

Perhaps you should actually sit down and look at the assumptions,
simplifications, short-cuts and trade-offs that computer scientists make
when they estimate an algorithm's Big O behaviour. It might shock you out
of your faith that Big O is the be all and end all of algorithm planning.

For all but the simplest algorithm, it is impractical to actually count
all the operations -- and even if you did, the knowledge wouldn't help
you, because you don't know how long each operation takes to get executed.
That is platform specific.

So you simplify. You pretend that paging never happens. That memory
allocations take zero time. That set up and removal of data structures
take insignificant time. That if there is an N**2 term, it always swamps
an N term. You assume that code performance is independent of the CPUs.
You assume that some operations (e.g. comparisons) take no time, and
others (e.g. moving data) are expensive.

Those assumptions sometimes are wildly wrong. I've been seriously bitten
following text book algorithms written for C and Pascal: they assume that
comparisons are cheap and swapping elements are expensive. But in Python,
swapping elements is cheap and comparisons are expensive, because of all
the heavy object-oriented machinery used. Your classic text book algorithm
is not guaranteed to survive contact with the real world: you have to try
it and see.

Given all the assumptions, it is a wonder that Big O estimates are ever
useful, not that they sometimes are misleading.



[snip]
>> The marketing department says: "It's O(N), so it is blindingly fast."
> 
> I might as well interpret "blindingly fast" as meaning O(1). - Why not?
>   Surely marketing might also have reasoned like
> this: "It's O(1), so its blindingly fast". But I *want*, nay, I *must*
> know whether it is O(N) or O(1). 

You might _want_, but you don't _need_ to know which it is, not in every
case. In general, there are many circumstances where it makes no
sense to worry about Big O behaviour. What's your expected data look like?
If your data never gets above N=2, then who cares whether it is O(1)=1,
O(N)=2, O(N**2)=4 or O(2**N)=2? They are all about as fast.

Even bubble sort will sort a three element list fast enough -- and
probably faster than more complicated sorts. Why spend all the time
setting up the machinery for a merge sort for three elements?


[snip]

>> Big O notation is practically useless for judging how fast a single
>> algorithm will be, or how one algorithm compares to another.
> 
> That's why Knuth liked it so much?
> That's why Aho, Hopcroft and Ullman liked it so much? That's why Gonnet
> and Baeza-Yates liked it so much?

Two reasons: it is useful for telling you how a single algorithm will
scale as the input increases, just as I said.

And, unlike more accurate ways of calculating the speed of an algorithm
from first principles, it is actually possible to do Big O calculations.

No doubt the state of the art of algorithm measurements has advanced since
I was an undergraduate, but certain fundamental facts remain: in order to
calculate that Big O, you have to close your eyes to all the realities
of practical code execution, and only consider an idealised calculation.
Even when your calculation gives you constants of proportionality and
other coefficients, Big O notation demands you throw that information away.

But by doing so, you lose valuable information. An O(N**2) algorithm that
scales like 1e-6 * N**2 will be faster than an O(N) algorithm that scales
as 1e6 * N, until N reaches one million million. By tossing away those
coefficients, you wrongly expect the first algorithm to be slower than the
second, and choose the wrong algorithm.



>> It is only useful for telling you how a single algorithm will scale as
>> the input increases.
> 
> And that's really very useful information indeed. 

Yes it is. Did I ever say it wasn't?


> Since, given such
> information for the basic data types and operations, as implemented by
> the language and its standard libraries, I stand a real chance of being
> able to determine the computational complexity of the
> *particular*combination* of data types and algorithms of my own small
> utility or of a critical piece of my wonderful and large application, on
> which the future of my company depends, with some confidence and
> accuracy.

Yes, zero is a real chance.


[snip]

>> As for sets, they are based on dicts, which are effectively hash
>> tables. Hash tables are O(1), unless there are collisions,
> 
> Depending on the "load factor" of the hash tables. So we would want to
> ask, if we have very large lists indeed, how much space needs to be
> invested to keep the load factor so low that we can say that the
> membership test is O(1). 

And knowing that hash tables are O(1) will not tell you that, will it?

There is only one practical way of telling: do the experiment. Keep
loading up that hash table until you start getting lots of collisions.


> Do A-B and A&B have to walk the entire hash
> table (which must be larger than the sets, because of a load factor <
> 1)? Also: the conversion of lists to sets needs the insertion of N
> elements into those hash tables. That alone already makes the overall
> algorithm *at*least* O(N). So forget about O(log N).

Yes, inserting N items into a hash table takes at least N inserts. But if
those inserts are fast enough, you won't even notice the time it takes to
do it, compared to the rest of your algorithm. In many algorithms, you
don't even care about the time it takes to put items in your hash table,
because that isn't part of the problem you are trying to solve.

So in real, practical sense, it may be that your algorithm gets dominated
by the O(log N) term even though there is technically an O(N) term in
there. Are Python dicts like that? I have no idea. But I know how to find
out: choose a problem domain I care about ("dicts with less than one
million items") and do the experiment.

 
>> in which case the more
>> common algorithms degenerate to O(N).
> 
> So here, indeed, we have the kind of reasoning that one ought to be able
> to deliver, based on what's in the Python documentation. Luckily, you
> have that kind the knowledge of both, how sets are implemented and what
> Big-Oh attaches to the hash table operation of "look up".
>   In order to *enable* SUCH reasoning for *everyone*,
> starting from the module interface documentation only, one clearly needs
> something along the lines that I was suggesting...

I don't object to having that Big O information available, except
insofar as it can be misleading, but I take issue with your position that
such information is necessary.

 
[snip]

>> Now run the test code:
>>
>> py> test_Order()
>> N = 1        0.000219106674194
>> N = 10       0.000135183334351
> 
> Curious: N=10 takes less time than N=1?

Yes, funny how real-world results aren't as clean and neat as they are in
theory. There are those awkward assumptions coming to bite you again. I've
done two additional tests, and get:

N = 1        0.000085043907166
N = 10       0.000106656551361

N = 1        0.000497949123383
N = 10       0.000124049186707

Remember, these results are averaged over twenty trials. So why it is
quicker to do work with sets of size 10 than sets of size 1? Big O
notation will never tell you, because it ignores the implementation
details that really make a difference.



>> N = 100      0.000481128692627
> 
> Why do we have such a comparatively large jump here, from N=100 to
> N=1000? Did hash tables overflow during conversion or something like
> that?

Who knows? Maybe Python was doing some garbage collection the first time I
run it. I've modified my code to print a scale factor, and here is another
run:

N = 1        0.00113509893417
N = 10       0.000106143951416 (x 0.093511)
N = 100      0.00265134572983 (x 24.978774)
N = 1000     0.0057701587677 (x 2.176313)
N = 10000    0.0551437973976 (x 9.556721)
N = 100000   0.668345856667 (x 12.120055)
N = 1000000  8.6285964489 (x 12.910376)

An increase from N=1 to 1000000 (that's a factor of one million) leads to
an increase in execution time of about 7600.

You will notice that the individual numbers vary significantly from trial
to trial, but the over-all pattern is surprisingly consistent.


>> N = 1000     0.0173740386963
>> N = 10000    0.103679180145
>> N = 100000   0.655336141586
>> N = 1000000  8.12827801704
> 
> Doesn't look quite O(n). Not yet...

No it doesn't. 

> 
>> In my humble opinion, that's not bad behaviour. It looks O(log N) to
>> me,

That's a mistake -- it is nowhere near O(log N). My bad. Closer to
O(sqrt N), if anything.


> How could that be? *Every* element of A and B must touched, if only to
> be copied: that can't make it O(log(N)). 

And, no doubt, if you had *really enormous* lists, oh, I don't know, maybe
a trillion items, you would see that O(N) behaviour. But until then, the
overall performance is dominated by the smaller-order terms with larger
coefficients.


> Also, the conversion of lists
> to sets must be at least O(N). And N isn't the right measure anyway. It
> would probably have to be in terms of |A| and |B|. For example, if |A|
> is very small, as compared to |B|, then A-B and A & B can be determined
> rather quickly by only considering elements of A.


Both lists have the same number of elements, so double N.


[snip]
 
> You must distinguish questions of principle and questions of muddling
> through like this testing bit you've done.

Your "question of principle" gives you completely misleading answers.
Remember, you were the one who predicted that lists would have to be
faster than sets. Your prediction failed miserably.


> It would take me some time to
> even be *sure* how to interpret the result. 

What's to interpret? I know exactly how fast the function will run, on
average, on my hardware. I can even extrapolate to larger sizes of N,
although I would be very careful to not extrapolate too far. (I predict
less than 10 minutes to work on a pair of 10,000,000 element lists, and
less than two hours to work on 100,000,000 element lists.)

> I would never want to say
> "it looks O(log N) to me", as you do, and leave it at that. Rather, I
> might say, as you do, "it looks O(log N) to me", *but* then try to
> figure out, given my knowledge of the implementation (performance wise,
> based on information that is sadly missing in the Python documentation),
> *why* that might be. 

Fine. You have the source code, knock yourself out.

> Then, if my experiments says "it looks like O(log
> N)" AND if my basic knowledge of the implementation of set and list
> primitives says "it should be O(log N)" as well, I would venture, with
> some *confidence*, to claim: "it actually IS O(log N)"....
> 
>  You do not compare the convert-it-to-sets-approach
> to the single list-walk either. 

No I did not, because I didn't have a function to do it. You've got my
source code. Knock yourself out to use it to test any function you like.

> Supposing the OP had actually sorted
> lists to begin with, then a single, simultaneous walk of the lists would
> be about as fast as it can get. Very, very likely *faster* than
> conversion to sets would be...

Please let us know how you go with that. It should be really interesting
to see how well your prediction copes with the real world.

(Hint: another of those awkward little implementation details... how much
work is being done in C code, and how much in pure Python? Just something
for you to think about. And remember, an O(N) algorithm in Python will be
faster than an O(N**2) algorithm in C... or is that slower?)



-- 
Steven.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 11:09:13 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:09:13 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86y84k95c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4vl5j.1sg46l1irzgfmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130154629.382286.33090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4xfpb.1oh4ntjwcvubfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > ... remember Pascal's "Lettres Provinciales",
> > and the famous apology about "I am sorry that this letter is so long,
> > but I did not have the time to write a shorter one"!-)
> 
> This observation applies to code too. I usually spend most of my time
> in making short programs
> that would have been long. This means:

Absolutely true.

> cutting off non-essential features (and you can discover that a feature
> is non essential only after having implemented it)

This one is difficult if you have RELEASED the program with the feature
you now want to remove, sigh.  You end up with lots of "deprecated"s...
somebody at Euro OSCON was saying that this was why they had dropped
Java, many years ago -- each time they upgraded their Java SDK they
found out that half their code used now-deprecated features.

Still, I agree that (once in a while) accepting backwards
incompatibility by removing features IS a good thing (and I look
forwards a lot to Python 3.0!-).  But -- the "dream" solution would be
to work closely with customers from the start, XP-style, so features go
into the code in descending order of urgence and importance and it's
hardly ever necessary to remove them.

> and/or
> 
> rethinking the problem to a superior level of abstraction (only
> possible after you have implented
> the lower level of abstraction).

Yep, this one is truly crucial.

But if I had do nominate ONE use case for "making code smaller" it would
be: "Once, And Only Once" (aka "Don't Repeat Yourself").  Scan your code
ceaselessly mercilessly looking for duplications and refactor just as
mercilessly when you find them, "abstracting the up" into functions,
base classes, etc...


Alex


From inyeol.lee at siliconimage.com  Tue Oct  4 14:18:38 2005
From: inyeol.lee at siliconimage.com (Inyeol Lee)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:18:38 -0700
Subject: [OT] Re: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <200510041122.25067.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
	<200510041122.25067.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>
Message-ID: <20051004181838.GC480@siliconimage.com>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 11:22:24AM -0500, Michael Ekstrand wrote:
[...]
> I've never seen "stock" Python (stable release w/ only included modules) 
> segfault, but did see a segfault with an extension module I was using 
> the other week (lxml IIRC, but I'm not sure).
> 
> - Michael

So far, this is the simplest way to crash stock python, at least in
Unix/Linux;

    $ python < /bin

If you redirect directory instead of file, python crashes. I think this bug was
introduced around 2.1 or 2.2, and not yet fixed as of 2.4.1.

- Inyeol


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 16 08:33:18 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:33:18 -0400
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <orKdnUX4dZLk1c_eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

themightydoyle at gmail.com wrote:
> Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
> a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
> timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.

As Dennis points out, your original attempt was destined to fail because 
you were calling the method from the main thread, not the one you wanted 
to kill.  Threads don't magically execute any methods that are attached 
to the Thread instance just because they're attached.  You have to 
actually call those methods *from* the thread, which means from the 
run() method or from any of the routines it calls (whether they are 
methods on that Thread or not), but it must be done in the context of 
the thread you want to raise exceptions in or it won't work.

More importantly, you've now described your use case (and I hope that of 
the OP as well, since he hasn't replied yet): killing threads.

This is an oft-discussed topic here, and searching the archives will 
probably give you lots more answers, but the short answer is you cannot 
kill a thread in Python (except by exiting the entire process). Instead, 
as you've discovered, you must ask it nicely to exit.  The nearly 
canonical approach to doing that is as follows:

class MyThread(threading.Thread):
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         threading.Thread.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
         self._keepRunning = True

     def stop(self, timeout=None):
         self._keepRunning = False
         # optional: wait for thread to exit
         self.join(timeout=timeout)

     def run(self):
         while self._keepRunning:
             # do stuff here

Now you can do things like this:

thread = MyThread()
thread.start()
# other stuff...
thread.stop()    # block here until the thread exits

I hope that clarifies things a little more...

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 09:35:32 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:35:32 +0100
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <1129114426.017651.123560@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>	<mailman.1944.1129107642.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129114426.017651.123560@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dij3f7$gfi$1@sea.gmane.org>

Johnny Lee wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>>Johnny Lee wrote:
[...]
>>
>>So my conclusion is that there's something in the Cygwin socket module
>>that causes problems not seen under other platforms.
>>
>>I couldn't find any obviously-related error in the Python bug tracker,
>>and I have copied this message to the Cygwin list in case someone there
>>knows what the problem is.
>>
>>Before making any kind of bug submission you should really see if you
>>can build a program shorter that the existing 220+ lines to demonstrate
>>the bug, but it does look to me like your program should work (as indeed
>>it does on other platforms).
>>
[...]
> 
> 
> But if you change urllib2 to urllib, it works under cygwin. Are they
> using different mechanism to connect to the page?
> 
I haven't looked into it that deeply. Perhaps you can take a look at the 
library code to see what the differences are?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From donbro at mac.com  Mon Oct 31 19:02:50 2005
From: donbro at mac.com (donbro)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 16:02:50 -0800
Subject: MacOS Extension Carbon.File.FSCatalogInfo file sizes should be
	UInt64?
References: <1130736502.902026.91020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<c8bdd$436668fb$4275d90a$11899@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <1130803369.983549.156170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Kevin,

    Thanks for the tip.  I'll post this to the pythonmac-sig mailing
list.

Don



From xah at xahlee.org  Mon Oct 10 02:24:47 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 23:24:47 -0700
Subject: Pythot doc problem: lambda keyword...
Message-ID: <1128925487.783702.198410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

i'm trying to lookup on the detail of language Python's ?lambda?
function feature. I've seen it before, but today i need to read about
it again since i'm writing. I quickly went to the index page:
http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/genindex.html
but all i got is a LambdaType.

i'm thinking, maybe built-in functions are not listed there. Lo, but
map() and friends are there. O, maybe i'm confused and ?lambda? is
actually a keyword by this particular language's feelings, but Lo,
?while? is certainly a keyword but it is there.

Fuck the Python liers and ignorant fuckheads. Motherfucking don't know
shit and yet lying thru their teeth with fanfare.

(for the technical context and justification of this message, please
see the essays at the bottom of:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python.html )

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Tue Oct 11 01:50:30 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:50:30 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndkkasd.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<434A2F31.6010507@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndkkjg4.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<temdnYth4b2IhdbeRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrndkmkl6.p68.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

In article <temdnYth4b2IhdbeRVn-jg at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Other than that, we had no real issues and definitely felt the choice of 
> Python was completely justified.  I have no hesitation recommending it, 
> other than to caution (as I believe Paul R did) that use of new features 
> is "dangerous" in that they won't have as wide usage and shouldn't 
> always be considered "proven" in long-term field use, by definition.

Thank you for this information. Of course, we try to be as conservative
as possible. The application fortunately allows for this, cyclic
references and new features can most probably be avoided.

> Also test heavily.  We were using test-driven development and had 
> effectively thousands of hours of run-time by the time the first system 
> shipped, so we had great confidence in it.

Yes, it is usually much nicer to debug the software in the quiet,
air-conditioned lab than somewhere in a jungle on the other side
of the globe with an extremely angry customer next to you...

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From fairwinds at eastlink.ca  Mon Oct 17 13:30:42 2005
From: fairwinds at eastlink.ca (David Pratt)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:30:42 -0300
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
In-Reply-To: <dj0h6c$khr$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BE122DE6-3F33-11DA-AE8C-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>

Hi Steve.  My plan is to parse the data removing the control characters  
and validate to data as records are being added to a dictionary. I am  
going to Unicode after this step but before it gets into storage (in  
which case I think the translate method could work well).

The encoding itself is not explicit for this data except to say that it  
is ASCII and that besides not using chars 0-30, ASCII 128-254 is  
permitted. I am not certain whether I should assume cp1252 or  
ISO-8859-1. I can't say that everyone is using Windows although likely  
vast majority for sure.

Would you think it safe to unicode before or after seeking out control  
characters and validating stage? My validations are relatively simple  
but to ensure that if I am expecting a date, integer, string etc the  
data is what it is supposed to be,  (since next stage is database),  
unify whitespace, remove control characters, and check for SQL strings  
in the data to prevent any stupid things from happening if someone  
wanted to be malicious.

Regards,
David

On Monday, October 17, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Steve Holden wrote:

> David Pratt wrote:
> [about ord(), chr() and stripping control characters]
>> Many thanks Steve. This is good information. I think this should work
>> fine. I was doing a string.replace in a cleanData() method with the
>> following characters but don't know if that would have done it. This
>> contains all the control characters that I really know about in normal
>> use. ord(c) < 32 sounds like a much better way to go and  
>> comprehensive.
>>   So I guess instead of string.replace, I should do a    ...  for char
>> in ...    and check evaluate each character, correct? - or is there a
>> better way of eliminating these other that reading a string in
>> character by character.
>>
>> '\a','\b','\e','\f','\n','\r','\t','\v','|'
>>
>
> There are a number of different things you might want to try. One is
> translate() which, given a string and a translate table, will perform
> the translation all in one go. For example:
>
>>>> delchars = "".join(chr(i) for i in range(32)) + "|"
>>>> print repr(delchars)
> '\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\x0f\x10\x11\x12 
> \x13\x14\
> x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f|'
>>>> nultxfrm = "".join(chr(i) for i in range(256))
>>>>
>
> So delchars is a list of characters you want to remove, and nultxfrm is
> a 256-character string where the nultxfrm[n] == chr(n) - this performs
> no translation at all. So then
>
>      s = s.translate(nultxfrm, delchars)
>
> will remove all the "illegal" characters from s.
>
> Note that I am sort-of cheating here, as this is only going to work for
> 8-bit characters. Once Unicode enters the picture all bets are off.
>
> regards
>   Steve
> -- 
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From richie at entrian.com  Tue Oct 18 04:02:47 2005
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:02:47 +0100
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <a0a9l19gmmhf92bk9gv93v4thangqj9p9u@4ax.com>


[Ken]
> Web interfaces are missing a lot more than this. Here are just a few  
> things that cannot be done with web-based interfaces (correct me  
> where I'm wrong):
> 
> 1) A real word processor.

http://www.writely.com/
http://www.goffice.com/

> 2) Keybindings in a web application

http://rememberthemilk.com/
Google Keys (but what happened to it?  It's disappeared!)

> 3) Drag and drop

http://www.walterzorn.com/dragdrop/dragdrop_e.htm

http://qooxdoo.oss.schlund.de/demo/release/public/test/user/Index.html
(pick "Drag and Drop N" from the dropdown on the right hand side of the top
bar)

> 4) Resizable windows (i.e. not the browser window) within the  
> application.

http://qooxdoo.oss.schlund.de/demo/release/public/test/user/Index.html
(pick "Window N" from the dropdown on the right hand side of the top bar)

http://www.bindows.net/ (click "Click for a quick DEMO")

> 5) Anything other than absolutely trivial graphical programs.

Not sure what you mean by this... Google maps?

> web interfaces are still basically forms that can contain  
> buttons, checkboxes, text fields, and a few other basic controls. I  
> wish it were otherwise.

It *is* otherwise.  You should follow the Ajaxian weblog here:
http://www.ajaxian.com/

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 19 04:57:32 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 01:57:32 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<u3dbl1l2pbsdluivl7l4enl9k440ci9tif@4ax.com>
	<dj4esv$q09$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<48jbl1honbc8ccfnkuo0bjatmqi5bqfks4@4ax.com>
	<dj4ofo$tcu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<io1cl1tv54gs7epehprk566spfs2bln3if@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj51pt$13q$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:io1cl1tv54gs7epehprk566spfs2bln3if at 4ax.com...

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:18:31 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    Perhaps you aren't following the thread, but I was talking about the
>>obligations a company has, not the obligations any individual has. And I 
>>was
>>talking about obligations *to* individuals.

> To me that makes no sense. Microsoft is an abstraction. It can't do
> anything. It can't make decisions. Only the individuals to work for it
> or on the board can, though they may do it in Microsoft's name.  If
> you want to talk about moral action, obligation etc. you can't divorce
> that from the people who do the actions.

    If anything that makes the objection even less meaningful. The objection 
was:

> Why should loyalty to company trump all other loyalties -- family,
> law, species,  community, country, religion ... ?

    And the answer is that I'm not talking about "loyalty to company" but 
loyalty to shareholders, which are people. Of course, a person is never 
required to do anything that actually conflicts with their conscience, 
although in some cases this may require you to quit.

    DS




From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 18:47:45 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 22:47:45 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0B50692ED3castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?

Opera seems to be making money with it. Also, Firefox gets money from 
Google kickback. Maybe MS had a similar idea in mind, but it failed 
(remember how they wanted to add ads to keywords in webpages?)

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From rutt at bmi.osu.edu  Tue Oct 11 15:57:09 2005
From: rutt at bmi.osu.edu (Benjamin Rutt)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:57:09 -0400
Subject: disable Pmw.Counter?
Message-ID: <5vll0zvnca.fsf@akron.bmi.ohio-state.edu>

Does anyone know how to disable a Pmw.Counter? (make it so it cannot
be changed, but you can still call the get() function to see its
current value?)

Thanks,
-- 
Benjamin Rutt


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 14:06:01 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 18:06:01 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<4350b0ee$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns96F08542455F6castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Martin P. Hellwig" <mhellwig at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Jeroen Wenting wrote:
> <cut>
>> 
>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more
>> powerful than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used
>> only dumb mainframe terminals.
> <cut>
> At the time you "PC" guys where hacking around monochrome green and a 
> bit lighter green screens I was doing multi-media editing on my Amiga
> 600. So perhaps we should state that we would have been a lot further
> if not an incredible amount of cool technologies where bought by MS
> and then simply put in the freezer to protect their future market
> share.

You mean like the lamp that keeps burning forever, like Philips has?

> Although Commodore where never serious competitors,

Because there programming skills were as worse as MS? I mean, their 
BASIC had only 2 instuctions: PEEK and POKE?

> they had
> some "intern" difficulties, too bad but life goes on.

Yup, same for Acorn. Their RISC work station was the fastest computer 
available for home users at that moment. 

> To go on, stable version of truly free unix likes where released
> around 1994 that was in the same time MS was working on their super
> stable released windows 95 and a slightly better NT 3.5 and let me not
> forget OS/2 warp 3.0 .
> 
> I'm not a MS basher,

Yet you call NT slightly better compared to Windows 95. So you have no 
clue what you're talking about.

> hey I make money of them administrating them, 
> however to state that if we didn't had MS we would been in the IT
> stone ages is blatantly wrong,

Now there is truth.

> I think we would have been a lot
> further

No, since companies are just companies, not little gods like some want 
them to be.

> then where we are now. Perhaps we even had a other mainstream
> architecture like sparcs and powerpc's.

But "crippled" like Intel.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From heuer at semagia.com  Sat Oct  1 12:20:27 2005
From: heuer at semagia.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 18:20:27 +0200
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1333220536.20051001182027@semagia.com>

Hi,

> Oops:

> http://artyprog.noip.org:8080


Again Oops:  :))

http://artyprog.no-ip.org:8080

Best regards,
Lars
-- 
http://semagia.com



From http  Tue Oct  4 14:43:29 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2005 11:43:29 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> Have those of you who think that the lack of required declarations in
> Python is a huge weakness given any thought to the impact that adding
> them would have on the rest of the language? I can't imagine how any
> language with required declarations could even remotely resemble
> Python.

What's the big deal?  Perl has an option for flagging undeclared
variables with warnings ("perl -w") or errors ("use strict") and Perl
docs I've seen advise using at least "perl -w" routinely.  Those
didn't have much impact.  Python already has a "global" declaration;
how does it de-Pythonize the language if there's also a "local"
declaration and an option to flag any variable that's not declared as
one or the other?

There's been a proposal from none other than GvR to add optional
static declarations to Python:

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551


From vishnuvyas at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 09:04:04 2005
From: vishnuvyas at gmail.com (vishnuvyas)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 06:04:04 -0700
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130591044.737746.232800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I use htmlize for that. you can try that.
http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~hniksic/emacs/htmlize.el



From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 19 06:19:04 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:19:04 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dj56ir$2of$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message 
news:slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...

> A company figures out something is wrong with one of their new models.
> They have two options. They can repair the problem or they can leave
> it as is and brace the laswsuits that will likely follow. An analysis
> shows that the first option is likely to cost more than the second.
>
> As far as I understand you, the company should ship the faulty model.

    It is impossible to respond to this with anything shorter than many 
pages. Google for "prudent predator" if you want all sides to this question. 
The short answer is "maybe".

    To the people who think that you obviously shouldn't, ask them the 
following hypothetical: You have a million pounds of grain. Destroying it 
will probably cost at least ten lives due to starvation. The grain, however, 
is contaminated, and selling it will likely make ten people sick, of which 
three will probably die. Should you destroy the grain?

    You do have an obligation to the shareholders not to commit fraud in 
their name.

    DS




From john at castleamber.com  Wed Oct 12 20:36:14 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 00:36:14 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<k0qok19md1le5ju60ip9a501kt16nia3pv@4ax.com>
	<Xns96ECD2D4D45D4castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<ml0rk1lb6okvoi2r9b4bgttrihe4he019m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96EDC76BE9F8Bcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 12 Oct 2005 01:43:32 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>> So let's say I decide to send an email to Donald Knuth.
>>
>>:-)
> 
> I did write him, snail mail, and he responded giving us permission to
> rewrite any of the algorithms in his famous set of books in to Java.

Like I quoted, he does even get (some) email (printed out that is) :-). But 
I think snail mail is better.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From david.rasmussen at gmx.net  Mon Oct 31 02:26:04 2005
From: david.rasmussen at gmx.net (David Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:26:04 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <4363fdd4$0$2107$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.14.445842@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<4363fdd4$0$2107$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <4365c6f9$0$2085$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>

No comments to this post?

/David


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Oct 30 09:23:59 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:23:59 +0100
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de> <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com> <m2hdb0rxv2.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m7na4je921j89@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m2u0ezqe0w.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> (GE) wrote:

>GE> On 2005-10-29, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:
>GE> That would require that the application know about the named
>GE> pipe and open it.  I don't think there is any way to swap a
>GE> pipe in for stdin/stdout once a process is running.
>>> 
>>> Sure. 'myprogram' should be designed to communicate through a
>>> named pipe, or be called with named pipe(s) as stdin/stdout.

>GE> That's all well and good, but it's got nothing to do with the
>GE> OP's problem: he's got a program that's already running and he
>GE> wants to write a Python program that can "attach" pipes to that
>GE> already running program's stdin/stdout. 

He didn't state that he has no control over that program. I.e. if it is a
program that he has source code of, he could change its behaviour to use a
named pipe.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From deets at web.de  Wed Oct 12 11:18:19 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 08:18:19 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1129108543.596435.200600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r3u8kFhhsqmU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1129108543.596435.200600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129130299.270571.113250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Rune Strand wrote:
> Excuse me, do you suffer from a bad hair-day? I didn't say it is
> platform independant. It's ok for my use on Linux and Windows. If you
> cannot imagine any other usecase for a __filename__ attribute, that's
> your problem, not mine.

I think you are the one who wants __filename__, not me. So I don't have
to have any usecase for it.

And requesting random features built into the interpreter without even
specifying a usecase  - as remote as it may be - isn't very likely
happen, don't you think? Which I wanted to express with my apparently
misunderstood solve_my_problem()-example.

And if your solution isn't platform-independent and one (several people
actually) provides you with one that is short and concise and no
overhead at all - well, that _could_ trigger a "cool, didn't know about
that"-reaction. But obviously, it hasn't. 

Diez



From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  4 13:31:23 2005
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:31:23 +0200
Subject: tcp socket programming
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1450.1128446525.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1450.1128446525.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4342bc6d$0$11074$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Mohammed Smadi wrote:
> hi;
> If i have a tcp connection with a remote server, what is a good way to 
> read all the data into a buffer before starting to process the data?
> I know that the data recieved will be 3 lines with CRLF between them.  
> However if I can sock.recv(1024) the output is not consistent all the 
> time, sometime i get one line and sometimes i get two.  So I figures I 
> should read all the data first then work on it and I used the following 
> code:
> result = []
> while True:
>     got=s.recv(1024)
>     print got
>     if not got: break
>     result.append(got)
>     got = [] # i tried also taking this out
> s.close()
> 
> but this code just hangs in the loop and never quits

... because it doesn't 'know' when to stop reading.
The socket recv() returns anything from 0 to 1024 bytes
depending on the amount of data that is available at that time.

You have to design your wire protocol a bit differently if you want
to do this in a consistent, reliable way.
For instance, you can decide on sending *one* byte first that
signifies the amount of bytes to read after that. (limiting the
size to 255 ofcourse).

Or you will have to change your read-loop to read until it
encountered the third CRLF occurrence (and no more!)

The latter is actually quite easily done by not reading directly
from the socket object, but first converting it to a file-like
object:

s=socket.socket(....)
s.connect(...)

fs=s.makefile()
fs.readline()
fs.readline()
fs.readline()


--Irmen.


From none at no.chance  Tue Oct  4 08:42:38 2005
From: none at no.chance (Peter Tillotson)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:42:38 +0100
Subject: Python profiler
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1302.1128117004.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1302.1128117004.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhtt9c$dta$1@hermes.shef.ac.uk>

look in the gc module ...

Celine & Dave wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I am trying to find a profiler that can measure the
> memory usage in a Python program. I would like to
> gather some statistics about object usages. For
> example, I would like to be able to see how much time
> it takes to search for an item in a dict object, how
> many times it has to access the symbol table to
> retrieve a specific item, and things like that.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
> http://mail.yahoo.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 11:55:56 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:55:56 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <11kd19ajdtkoi6f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kd19ajdtkoi6f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <di65q2$7qf$1@sea.gmane.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-07, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
[...]
>>Then again, what can you expect from a country whose leader
>>pronounces "nuclear" as though it were spelled "nucular"?
> 
> 
> Don't get me started on _that_ one.  I found it particularly
> horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it "nucular" -- he had
> studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at
> least be able pronounce the word.
> 
> 
>>I suppose it's only a matter of time before they change the
>>spelling just like they did with "aluminium".
> 
> 
> :)
> 
One can only hope that Bush has been control of the nuclear weapons 
rather than the nuclear ones.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From apgwoz at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 07:12:18 2005
From: apgwoz at gmail.com (Andrew Gwozdziewycz)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 07:12:18 -0400
Subject: semi-newbie module namespace confusion
In-Reply-To: <3qev4iFash6dU1@news.dfncis.de>
References: <1128404572.837225.41870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1418.1128406275.509.python-list@python.org>	<3qer81FeldcmU1@news.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.1420.1128413993.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3qev4iFash6dU1@news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <24FDFC64-F509-4A8D-B0EA-479C55054EC5@gmail.com>

>>
> well, in my opinion python is not trying hard enough. to me it is
> immediately obvious that the main module gets evaluated twice and
> i am rather sure that one could introduce some magic of the kind
> "oh, i reevaluate the main script here, the module does not get filled
> the usual way but uses the existing objects instead". this would have
> to happen on a very low level (when the file i just read from is  
> known)
> but i think it would be possible. whether the effort to do so is worth
> it, is a different question...

There is an easy fix to this situation, and it's called creating a  
new script that imports the modules. If it's truely a module (which I  
guess really everything in python is), it probably should only be run  
by itself for testing purposes only.


>>> Now i wonder how difficult it would be to "correct" the behavior?
>>>
>>
>> there's no way to "fix" it without introducing a huge number of  
>> inconsistencies.


Plus, it's not broken to begin with.


---
Andrew Gwozdziewycz
apgwoz at gmail.com
http://ihadagreatview.org
http://plasticandroid.org


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From scott.daniels at acm.org  Sat Oct 29 17:13:15 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:13:15 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net> <3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <4363e506$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Paul Watson wrote:

> Here is a better one that counts, and not just detects, the substring.  This 
> is -much- faster than using mmap; especially for a large file that may cause 
> paging to start.  Using mmap can be -very- slow.
> 
 > <ss = pattern, be = len(ss) - 1>
> ...
> b = fp.read(blocksize)
> count = 0
> while len(b) > be:
>     count += b.count(ss)
>     b = b[-be:] + fp.read(blocksize)
> ...
In cases where that one wins and blocksize is big,
this should do even better:
     ...
     block = fp.read(blocksize)
     count = 0
     while len(block) > be:
         count += block.count(ss)
         lead = block[-be :]
         block = fp.read(blocksize)
         count += (lead + block[: be]).count(ss)
     ...
-- 
-Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 17 04:36:34 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:36:34 +0200
Subject: Question on class member in python
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Johnny Lee wrote:

> Class A:
>    def __init__(self):
>       self.member = 1
> 
>    def getMember(self):
>       return self.member
> 
> a = A()
> 
> So, is there any difference between a.member and a.getMember? thanks
> for your help. :)

Yes. accessor methods for simple attributes are a Javaism that should be
avoided in Python. You can always turn an attribute into a property if the
need arises to do some calculations behind the scene

>>> class A(object):
...     def getMember(self):
...             return self.a * self.b
...     member = property(getMember)
...     def __init__(self):
...             self.a = self.b = 42
...
>>> A().member
1764

I. e. you are not trapped once you expose a simple attribute.

Peter


From http  Thu Oct 27 16:57:29 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 13:57:29 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it's an important point that no court 
> ever found that Microsoft illegally acquired a monopoly. So to characterize 
> the monopoly itself as "illegal" is simply erroneous.

Who is paying you to tell these ridiculous crap?  The monopoly is illegal
if maintained by anticompetitive means regardless of how it was acquired.
>From http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/conclusions-l.html:

   Section 2 of the Sherman Act declares that it is unlawful for a person
   or  firm  to "monopolize . . . any part of the trade or commerce among
   the  several  States,  or with foreign nations . . . ." 15 U.S.C. ? 2.
   This language operates to limit the means by which a firm may lawfully
   either  acquire  or  perpetuate  monopoly  power. Specifically, a firm
   violates  sec.  2  if  it  attains  or  preserves  monopoly power through
   anticompetitive acts.

   The threshold element of a  sec 2 monopolization offense being "the
   possession of monopoly power in the relevant market...

David Schwartz, I have a direct question for you: are you on
Microsoft's payroll?


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Sat Oct  8 05:04:42 2005
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 10:04:42 +0100
Subject: Contest snub?
In-Reply-To: <kosdk1pcvhcsu7cs2mfjpmgpaf5kthk6pi@4ax.com>
References: <kosdk1pcvhcsu7cs2mfjpmgpaf5kthk6pi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43478bab$0$525$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>

maxx at easynews.com wrote:
> Notice anything strange here? The Python entry seems to have edged the PHP
> entries, but is not declared the victor. Source is missing as well (the archive
> is empty.) 
> 
> http://www.apress.com/promo/fractal/seesource.html
> 
> Hmmmm... an irrational fear of snakes perhaps?

Its not irrational if you are a gator!

Will McGugan
-- 
http://www.willmcgugan.com
"".join({'*':'@','^':'.'}.get(c,0) or chr(97+(ord(c)-84)%26) for c in 
"jvyy*jvyyzpthtna^pbz")


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Thu Oct  6 05:00:54 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:00:54 +0200
Subject: Help-log in to a web page
In-Reply-To: <aM51f.8$nq6.116@news.oracle.com>
References: <aM51f.8$nq6.116@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <4344E7C6.5060900@designaproduct.biz>

Murugesh wrote:

>Hi all,
>I'm a newbie to python.I need to login to a webpage after supplying 
>usename and password.
>
>import urllib   
>sock = urllib.urlopen("http://xop-pc.main.com")
>htmlSource = sock.read()                           
>sock.close()                                       
>print htmlSource        
>
>In the above code how can i supply username and password to that URL.
>Thanks for you time.
>  
>
xop-pc.main.com is not an existing site.
Can you tell me what kind of authentication method it is using?
If that is the "basic authentication" (defined the standard HTTP 
protocol) then you need to read this:

http://docs.python.org/lib/urlopener-objs.html

Basically, you need to subclass URLopener or FancyURLopener, and 
overwrite its "prompt_user_passwd" method.
That method will be then called whenever the server needs authentication.

Here is a template for you (untested):


from urllib import FancyURLOpener
class MyOpener(FancyURLOpener):
    def prompt_user_passwd(host,realm):
       return ('myusername','mypassword')

opener = MyOpener({})
f = opener.open("http://xop-pc.main.com")
try:
    html_source = f.read()
finally:
    f.close()



Best,

  Les








From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 11:10:48 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:10:48 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <1128783738.588723.200130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<1128783738.588723.200130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <E9SdnYvL06wSfNreRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Sam Pointon wrote:
> What about not storing args at all? Something like this:
> 
> def cache_function(func, args_list):
>     cache = {}
>     def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
>         kwargs.update(dict(zip(args_list, args)))
>         if kwargs in cache:
>             return cache[kwargs]
>         result = func(**kwargs)
>         cache[kwargs] = result
>         return result
>     return cached_result
> 
> args_list is a list of all the argument names, so that they can be
> converted into keyword arguments.
> 

I'll take a look at the zip function, didn't know about that one, but 
your example also has the problem that dictionaries can't be used as 
dictionary keys, but that can be easily solved. I think I can simplify 
my solution with some of yours.

The parameter names can be gotten by doing a inspect.getargspec(fn)[0] 
so that can be done by the decorator function.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Fri Oct 14 06:37:25 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:37:25 +0200
Subject: Yes, this is a python question, and a serious one at that (moving
	to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434f8a54$0$16641$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Kenneth McDonald a ?crit :
> For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP  (from 
> OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that  I can 
> only compare it to driving in the Bay Area at rush hour (OS X  is like 
> driving in Portland at rush hour--not as bad, but getting  there), but 
> there are really only a couple of things that are really,  absolutely 
> preventing me from making the switch. Number one is the  lack of a 
> decent command line and command-line environment, and I'm  wondering 
> (hoping) if perhaps someone has written a "Python shell"-- something 
> that will look like a regular shell, let users type in  commands, maybe 
> have some of the nice features of bash etc. like tab  completion, etc, 
> and will then execute an underlying python script  when the command is 
> entered. I'm not thinking of IDLE, but something  that is really aimed 
> more at being a system terminal, not a Python- specific terminal.
> 
> Yes, I know that Cygwin is out there, but last I looked, they still  
> went through the Win command-line window, which imposes a lot of  
> restrictions.
> 
> More generally, has anyone written any python programs to administer  
> various Win settings for which one must otherwise delve deep into  mazes 
> of twisty little dialogs, all alike? Or to help out with other  
> annoyances? I know there are a lot of general utilities, but if  they're 
> in Python, I can also use them as a starting base for my own  needs.
> 
> Finally, a significant incentive in doing this is that I could avoid  a 
> lot of installation hassle, since virtually everything has at least  a 
> decent installation package for Win. (I'd hoped this would happen  for 
> OS X, but it never has). Can anyone think of important python- related 
> packages (release level, not cutting edge alphas) for which  this might 
> not be the case?
> 
> Many thanks,
> Ken

Last time I checked, you could install a native win32gui version of rxvt 
with cygwin. This would give you a better terminal window than that 
crappy thing you get in XP.


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 10 22:28:28 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:28:28 -0400
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
In-Reply-To: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <bJ6dncmSKcbXvtbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Out of random curiosity, is there a PEP/thread/? that explains why
> Python symbols are restricted to 7-bit ascii?

And of equally random curiosity :-), what alternative(s) can you suggest 
would have been appropriate?  (I note that Unicode, for example, dates 
from around the time Python was first released.  And I can't really 
imagine a non-ugly alternative, which probably reveals something bad 
about my imagination.)

-Peter


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 20:06:34 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:06:34 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<srtik1d92f827rt0s0aemi5a63fiocl6s2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86achikzg5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 05:55:01 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>>Virus writers will love the ability to
>>change peoples address books remotely.
> Since this is just a broad brush view, I find it odd you can predict
> just what bugs there will be in the early implementations.

I'm not predicting bugs in the implementations. I'm predicting how
people are going to abuse *features* of the implementations.

> You sound almost as if you were the author of the current system and
> feel personally attacked by others looking for ways to improve it.

Nah, I've just know people who spend a lot of time - and money -
dealing with spam, and we've discussed these issues at great
length. You haven't proposed anything that hasn't been proposed
before, and rejected for various reasons.

> In my scheme, every message is digitally signed, even a change of
> address message. 

Yup, I assumed that.

> Surely for a virus to send out a digitally signed change of address
> message is more difficult than sending out an unsigned one, which they
> can do today.

Maybe yes, maybe no. They can use existing APIs to send mail now. If
there's an API to sign a message - and there just about has to be,
otherwise changing mail readers will require sending out a change of
address form to change the public key - what prevents the virus from
simply using that to send out an encrpyted message? Yes, it's more
difficult, just like it's more difficult to send out mail with an
attachment than one that's just plain text. But the difference is just
more work, not something fundamentally different.

> You have two problems you want to avoid:
>
> 1. the practical problem:  failure to inform your correspondents, not
> just your address list, of your new address (at least the ones you
> don't consider spam or pests).
>
> 2. the potential problem:  rogue software sending out fake change of
> address notices.
>
> In my scheme, The receiver of the change of address  message ignores
> it unless it is properly signed.  Surely that is a more secure system
> than we have today and that handles (1) without effort.  At worst, a
> very clever virus could change the one address book entry, the one for
> this computer, in other's machines.   It could not generally corrupt
> other machines.

Depends on how convenient you make things. The problems aren't
technical, they're social. For instance, people will want their
address book to automatically send out change of address notices to
every non-pest if their address is changed. A virus can exploit this
by changing the address in the address book. No need for it to send
out mail - the users mail agent does it all for them. Fixing this
requires convincing the users that they should do a lot of work to
achieve point 1 - which sort of defeats your purpose.

Personally, I don't believe that you'll convince people to take do
more work to get more security. So you've got to convince all the
authors who deploy mail readers - and/or key security systems - to not
allow that. Since such a feature will be requested by users, and will
make their software more popular, that's not going to be easy either.

To be really secure, you store the private key encrypted, and ask the
user for a passphrase to decrypt it every time you want to sign a
message. So you make your interface do that, and it asks the user for
a key every time a message is signed. For true security, you have to
include the recipient address in the signatture, otherwise you're
liable to replay attacks sent different addresses, so changing your
address will involve providing your pass phrase once for everyone you
notify. Someone else will decide that's to inconvenient, and provide
an interface that stores the passphrase to reuse for some
user-specified length of time. Existing systems do this, and get lots
of use even thought they are less secure than doing it right. Then
you'll get a interface that ask for the key once a session. Then
you'll get one that asks once, and just keeps it forever. We've seen
this happen with access to web site passwords.

Guess which one users are going to prefer. Guess which one makes it
simple for viruses to hijack they system to send out mail that "you"
have signed.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From high-commander at todds-world.net  Wed Oct 26 20:17:54 2005
From: high-commander at todds-world.net (Todd Beauchemin)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:17:54 GMT
Subject: RPM Modules
Message-ID: <S0V7f.661$m81.494@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>


Is there any documentation that shows how to use the RPM API for Python. 
  I have found one example but it's dated 2000 and I haven't been able 
to get it to work :(.

Thanks
~Todd


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 19:15:01 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:15:01 -0700
Subject: Controlling output using print with format string
References: <3sl7mnFordm3U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <1h5994n.1l0ku535g7z39N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Paul Watson <pwatson at redlinepy.com> wrote:

> It is clear that just using 'print' with variable names is relatively
> uncontrollable.  However, I thought that using a format string would 
> reign the problem in and give the desired output.
> 
> Must I resort to sys.stdout.write() to control output?

In general, yes, because print tries hard to separate with spaces the
things it is separately printing.  You can fight that by resetting
sys.stdout.softspace after each and every print, but that's harder than
just using sys.stdout.write.  So, you should use the right tool for the
job: print for simple output, often diagnostic in nature, where you
don't mind the spaces and/or newlines that implies; sys.stdout.write
when you do want to really control every aspect of the output.


Alex


From codecraig at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 15:47:58 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 12:47:58 -0700
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
Message-ID: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I need to write an extension for a C function so that I can call it
from python.

C code (myapp.c)
======
typedef unsigned long MY_LONG;

char *DoStuff(char *input, MY_LONG *x) { ... }

so you pass in a string and an array of MY_LONGS...such as

MY_LONGS vals[10] = {....};
char *input = "this is my input";
char *result;

result = DoStuff(input, vals);

...I need to create an extension so that I can call this from Python
such as...

>> import myapp
>> vals = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
>> input = "this is my input"
>> result = myapp.DoStuff(input, vals)
>> print result

ideally the result would be a String, vals would be a list and input
would be a string.

I was hoping to follow along with how to write an extension, as shown
here http://docs.python.org/ext/contents.html.

...but a better example would help.

Thanks.



From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 08:55:40 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 05:55:40 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djqi72$5vc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com><5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<20i1m19cup3s8hb4ikqti1monvtf9nb3dv@4ax.com>
	<djqi72$5vc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <1130417740.645004.151310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


David Schwartz wrote:
> Roedy Green wrote:
>
> > The particular way MS threatened to put me out of business was by
> > threatening to arm twist all wholesalers to refuse to sell MS product
> > to me, which any retailer needed to survive in those days.
>
>     Right, I get that. You owed your entire business to Microsoft. Without
> their products, you would have had nothing, by your own admission. The way
> you repay them is by trying to screw them -- attract people who come in only
> because you offer Windows and then say "here's an OS that's better and
> cheaper".

Oh right.  You're actually just a troll.  Oh well.

*plonk*

Iain



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Wed Oct  5 07:46:16 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:46:16 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <4343bd0a$0$8938$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Mike Meyer wrote:
(snip)
> Antoon, at a guess I'd say that Python is the first time you've
> encountered a dynamnic language. Being "horrified" at not having
> variable declarations, 

Mike, "being horrified" by the (perceived as...) lack of variable
declaration was the OP's reaction, not Antoon's.

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 01:55:25 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 00:55:25 -0500
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
In-Reply-To: <fyricy04.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no>
	<433e7898$0$49766$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<fyricy04.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200510070055.25502.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 03 October 2005 12:26 pm, John J. Lee wrote:
> [Tor Erik S?nvisen]
> > socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I look?
> 
> [John, finding 'socketmodule.c' responds well to "I'm Feeling Lucky"]
> > Does google vary in its results across the globe?
> 
> [Michael]
> > The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your google-fu
> > is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack them at
> > least...)
> 
> You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
> "socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?

No, ironically, the problem is that Tor is too *smart* to search
for "socketmodule.c" -- it requires *unlearning* the experience
from searching physical libraries where subject catalogs and librarians
are the "search engine".  They don't respond to the same type of
search terms as machines do.

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 11 06:50:05 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:50:05 +0200
Subject: strange import error with Python-2.4.1
References: <434B8EDF.3060905@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<434B9602.9070001@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <dig5ct$hb5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Can I ask if you are specifying a source encoding in your file with a
> pragma (?) like
>
> # -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
>
> I've noticed what appear to be spurious syntax errors from time to time
> on such files, and have been attempting to debug the problem for some
> time without any apparent success.

http://www.python.org/sf/1175396

</F> 





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:36:09 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:36:09 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.36.08.484697@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

Oh, and another point...

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 00:03:05 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> But trying to keep your email world into a pure text-based 
> no-formatting-whatsoever world, that's a fantasy bubble that is bound to 
> burst, sooner rather than later.

Nonsense. I can easily set up a filter to dump non-plain text email
straight into the trash. If I choose, I never need see a HTML mail. Ever.

In fact, since the single strongest predictor of spam is the use of HTML,
I predict that a lot more people than you think have HTML emails either
deleted or dumped in a spam folder.


-- 
Steven.



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 16 18:23:16 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:23:16 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11l369039d6ppe0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <86psq514q3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Greymaus <greymaus at cableone.net> writes:
> Mike Meyer wrote:
>> You clearly weren't paying attention to what the rest
>> of the microcomputer industry was doing while Gates was selling IBM
>> non-existent software. While IBM was introducing 16-bit processors and
>> DOS was doing a flat file system, Tandy was selliig systems - for a
>> fraction of the price of any MS-DOS based system - that were
>> multitasking, multiuser, had an optional windowing system that came
>> with a complete (for the time) office suite. Of course, that was while
>> Tandy still thought they could sell computers by selling better
>> computers than you could get running MS software.
> Was that the Color Computer III running OS9 Level II for an operating
> system, that you're talking about?  Motorola 6809 processor?  HELLUVA
> little computer!  OS9 was a bit quirky, though, even for a UNIX clone.

Yup. OS9 wasn't really a Unix clone - it was designed as an embedded
OS for instruments, and last time I looked was still around, though
they had moved on to newer processors.

And if you think the Coco was a helluva little computer, you should
have seen what the Japanese weren't exporting.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Tue Oct 18 12:08:54 2005
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:08:54 +0100
Subject: html parser?
References: <dj2jg1$qqi$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
	<mailman.2212.1129632708.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dj2lq0$s27$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <qysxtmgb7ql.kadcgt64tvy2.dlg@40tude.net>

* Christoph S?llner (2005-10-18 12:20 +0100)
> right, that's what I was looking for. Thanks very much.

For simple things like that "BeautifulSoup" might be overkill.

import formatter, \ 
       htmllib,   \ 
       urllib 

url = 'http://python.org' 

htmlp = htmllib.HTMLParser(formatter.NullFormatter()) 
htmlp.feed(urllib.urlopen(url).read()) 
htmlp.close() 

print htmlp.anchorlist

and then use urlparse to parse the links/urls...


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 10 21:02:19 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:02:19 -0400
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
Message-ID: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Out of random curiosity, is there a PEP/thread/? that explains why
Python symbols are restricted to 7-bit ascii?

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct  6 10:11:08 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:11:08 +0200
Subject: py2exe has a new maintainer
References: <mailman.1477.1128470487.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y856burn.fsf@python.net>

"Jimmy Retzlaff" <jimmy at retzlaff.com> writes:

> I am taking over the maintenance and support of py2exe from Thomas
> Heller. As he announced a few weeks ago he is looking to focus on other
> things. py2exe has been very useful to me over the years and I look
> forward to keeping it every bit as useful in the future.

Jimmy, I'm very happy that you take over the py2exe package maintainace
and wish you all good luck with it.  Open source how it should work!

Thanks again,

Thomas


From gene.tani at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 23:35:32 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 20:35:32 -0700
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
In-Reply-To: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129174532.546206.11810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

is this it:?
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

LenS wrote:
> Hello
>
> Was wandering if there is any place where some one could go to get
> mentoring on python coding.  I have started coding in python but I am
> the only one in the shop  using it.  So there is no one around to look
> over my code give suggestions on improvement, in style, logic, easier
> ways of doing things etc.  I am not really looking for hand holding as
> much mentoring.  I have purchased about every python book out and have
> a list a mile long on my internet bookmarks.  I believe I have a good
> grasp of the fundamentals procedurally and I am fighting my way through
> OOP.  I am more at the stage of trying to pull things together into
> programs that perform real world tasks.  At one point I thought I saw
> some place on one of the web site that did this kind of thing but I
> can't find it now.
> 
> Any help or suggestions welcomed
> Len Sumnler



From uche.ogbuji at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 17:36:25 2005
From: uche.ogbuji at gmail.com (uche.ogbuji at gmail.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 14:36:25 -0700
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130189785.358171.307700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

"inally diving into XML programmatically.  Does anyone have a best
practice recommendation for programmatically discovering the structure
of an arbitrary XML document via Python?"

You can do this with DOM or SAX, or any of the many more friendly XML
processing libraries out there.  You might want to be more specific.
What sort of output do you want from this discovery?

--
Uche Ogbuji                               Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net                    http://fourthought.com
http://copia.ogbuji.net                   http://4Suite.org
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Oct 17 16:39:51 2005
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:39:51 +0200
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: <20051017152141.80D211E4069@bag.python.org>
References: <20051017152141.80D211E4069@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20051017203951.GA29069@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>

Finn Waldrip wrote:
> X-Spambayes-Classification: unsure; 0.242

> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <TITLE>404 Not Found</TITLE>
> </HEAD><BODY>
> <H1>Not Found</H1>
> The requested URL was not found on this server.<P>
> <HR>
> <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.31</ADDRESS>
> </BODY></HTML>

How can my poor Spambayes ever make sense of this?

Gerrit.

-- 
Temperature in Lule?, Norrbotten, Sweden:
| Current temperature   05-10-17 22:29:59    9.6 degrees Celsius ( 49.2F) |
-- 
Det finns inte d?ligt v?der, bara d?liga kl?der.


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Thu Oct  6 11:44:03 2005
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:44:03 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <434545b7$0$662$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Mike Meyer a ?crit :
> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> 
>>Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:58:33 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>Declarations also allow easier writable closures. Since the declaration
>>happens at a certain scope, the run time can easily find the correct
>>scope when a variable is rebound.
> 
> 
> If it happens at runtime, then you can do it without declarations:
> they're gone by then. Come to think of it, most functional languages -
> which are the languages that make the heaviest use of closures - don't
> require variable declarations.

Well, can you give a single example of such language ? Because all the
functionnal language I know but one do need variable declaration : lisp,
scheme, ocaml, haskell do need variable declaration ! Erlang do not ...

> 
> 
[...]
> 
> 
> Only in a few cases. Type inferencing is a well-understood
> technology, and will produce code as efficient as a statically type
> language in most cases.
> 

Type inferencing only works for statically typed languages AFAIK ! In a
dynamically typed languages, typing a variable is simply impossible as
any function may return a value of any type !

> 
>>I think language matters shouldn't be setlled by personal preferences.
> 
> 
> I have to agree with that. For whether or not a feature should be
> included, there should either be a solid reason dealing with the
> functionality of the language - meaning you should have a set of use
> cases showing what a feature enables in the language that couldn't be
> done at all, or could only be done clumsily, without the feature.

Wrong argument ... with that kind of things, you would just stick with
plain Turing machine ... every single computation can be done with it !

> 
> Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
> effect the programing process. And we have conflicting claims about
> whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
> solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
> personal preferences.
> 

Well, so why not *allow* for variable declaration ? Languages like Perl
does that successfully ... you don't like : you don't do ! you like :
you do ! A simple option at the beginning of the file tell the compilor
if variable declaration is mandatory or not !

> Until someone does the research to provide hard evidence one way or
> another, that's all we've got to work with. Which means that languages
> should exist both with and with those features, and if one sides
> experiences generalize to the population at large, they alternative
> languages will die out. Which hasn't happened yet.
> 
> 
>>But we should decide what language features are usefull and which are
>>not by what some individual can or can't live without.
> 
> 
> Um - that's just personal preference (though I may have misparsed your
> sentence). What one person can't live without, another may not be able
> to live with. All that means is that they aren't likely to be happy
> with the same programming language. Which is fine - just as no
> programming language can do everything, no programming language can
> please everyone.
> 
> Antoon, at a guess I'd say that Python is the first time you've
> encountered a dynamnic language. Being "horrified" at not having
> variable declarations, which is a standard feature of such languages
> dating back to the 1950s, is one such indication.

Dynamic language and variable declaration are non-related issues ! You
can have statically-typed language without variable declaration (i.e.
BASIC) and dynamically-typed language with (i.e. Lisp) ! Please, when
you says something about languages, at least give 1 name of language
asserting what you're saying !

> Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
> paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
> compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
> level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
> experienced with something like Pascal would consider
> essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.

Well, could you be more specific once more ? I can't that many paradigm
only available on dynamically typed languages ... beside duck-typing
(which is basically a synonym for dynamically-typed)

> Given these kinds of differences, prior experience is *not* a valid
> reason for thinking that some difference must be wrong. Until you have
> experience with the language in question, you can't really decide that
> some feature being missing is intolerable. You're in the same position
> as the guy who told me that a language without a goto would be
> unusable based on his experience with old BASIC, FORTRAN IV and
> assembler.

After more than two years of Python programming, I still fill the need
for variable declarations. It would remove tons of bugs for little works
and would also clarify the scope of any single variable.

> Pick one of the many languages that don't require declarations. Try
> writing a code in them, and see how much of a problem it really is in
> practice, rather than trying to predict that without any
> information. Be warned that there are *lots* of variations on how
> undeclared variables are treated when referenced. Python raises
> exceptions. Rexx gives them their print name as a value. Other
> languages do other things.
> 
>           <mike

Well, IMO, worst case is silently give a default value, like PHP (or
apparently Rexx) does ... this can hide bugs for month if a single
test-case is missing !

Well, in the end, I would really like an *option* at the beginning of a
module file requiring variable declaration for the module. It would
satisfy both the ones who want and the ones who don't want that ...

Pierre


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:39:35 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:39:35 -0500
Subject: Recursive generators and backtracking search
In-Reply-To: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130616373.235379.140630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510311239h7f32761fu29bb001322af8b8@mail.gmail.com>

[Talin]
> I've been using generators to implement backtracking search for a while
> now. Unfortunately, my code is large and complex enough (doing
> unification on math expressions) that its hard to post a simple
> example. So I decided to look for a simpler problem that could be used
> to demonstrate the technique that I am talking about.
>
> I noticed that PEP 255 (Simple Generators) refers to an implementation
> of the "8 Queens" problem in the lib/test directory. Looking at the
> code, I see that while it does use generators, it doesn't use them
> recursively.

In context, the N-Queens and MxN Knight's Tour solvers in
test_generators.py are exercising the conjoin() generators in that
file.  That's a different approach to backtracking search, with some
nice features too:  (1) it uses heap space instead of stack space;
and, (2) it's easy to run entirely different code at different levels
of the search.  #2 isn't well-illustrated by the N-Queens solver
because the problem is so symmetric, although it is used to give the
code for each row its own local table of the board lines used by the
squares in that row.  That in turn is a major efficiency win.  The
Knight's Tour solver makes more obvious use of #2, by, e.g., running
different code for "the first" square than for "the second" square
than for "the last" square than for "all the other" squares.  That
doesn't require any runtime test-and-branch'ing in the search code,
it's set up once at the start in the list of M*N generators passed to
conjoin() (each square gets its own generator, which can be customized
in arbitrary ways, in advance, for that square).

> As an alternative, I'd like to present the following implementation. If
> you compare this one with the one in lib/test/test_generator.py you
> will agree (I hope) that by using recursive generators to implement
> backtracking, the resulting code is a little more straightforward and
> intuitive:

Since "straightfoward and intuitive" weren't the goals of the
test_generators.py implementations, that's not too surprising ;-)

> ...


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 15:41:39 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:41:39 -0400
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> My point: the OP wanted to know how to export an environment
> variable to a child process.  Either of the lines of code above
> will do that, so what's with all the shellular shenanigans?

Actually, the OP didn't say he wanted to export a variable to a child
process. He said he wanted to know how to do the equivalent of "export
SYMBOL=value", which got intreprted as "setting a variable in the
parent shell."

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct  9 09:20:14 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:20:14 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:

> The technial problems have been solved for over a decade. NeXT shipped
> systems that used text/richtext, which has none of the problems that
> HTML has.  The problems are *social* - you've got to arrange for
> people to use mail/news readers that understand a rich text format
> that isn't a vector for viruses.

It's not HTML that has problems, it's Microsoft's crappy software.

Writing virus-free HTML renderers is not hard - but of course
Microsoft can still screw it up.

Don't blame HTML for viruses - *every* document format Microsoft has
anything to do with becomes a vector for viruses.

They *even* managed to get virulent spreadsheets and word processor 
documents!
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 24 07:49:06 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:49:06 +0100
Subject: New User
In-Reply-To: <djeq29+5mv7@eGroups.com>
References: <djeq29+5mv7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <djihnd$op1$1@sea.gmane.org>

thatchmatic wrote:
> I just downloaded and I think installed python.  I am not sure if I 
> did cause it does'nt respond to the commands that the read me file 
> told me to use.  Also can someone suggest a trial program I can maybe 
> write for fun?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
1: http://www.python.org/doc/faq/windows.html

2: Depends on your definition of fun, of course :-)
    How about a program to print the average of a set
    of numbers you type in?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 05:02:54 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 05:02:54 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqn6wpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <8664sfkwol.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x4q7zp36t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <861x33km69.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> > Privilege separation is considered a good coding practice.  How does
>> > Python help it?
>> With conventions and name mangling. Which are only slightly less
>> effective than the C++/Java technic for doing the same thing.
> That's not what privilege separation means.  It means that the
> privileged objects stay secure even when the unprivileged part of the
> program is completely controlled by an attacker.

In which case, what's "private" got to do with this? The examples I've
seen of it don't give you privilege seperation any more than python
does.

Of course, while we're adding things to Python to support what people
consider good coding practices, let's not forget:

         Design by contract.
         Covariant method specialization.
         Class invariants.
         Avoiding variable aliasing.
         Hungarian Notation.
         The Law of Demeter.
         Loop invariants.
         Avoiding mixed mode arithmetic.
         The telephone test.
         Procedure/function sepration.
         Type discipline.
         Contravariant method specialization.    

and so on.

         <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:51:20 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:51:20 -0700
Subject: What is Transport parameter in xmlrpclib.Server used for?
Message-ID: <1130251880.798052.278410@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello all...

Someone can tell me what is the parameter 'transport' used for?
I think it can be used for encrypt the data... If so, how can I use it?

Thanks



From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Mon Oct  3 11:42:02 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:42:02 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <43414f82$0$21209$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 06:59:04 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
> 
>>Well I'm a bit getting sick of those references to standard idioms.
>>There are moments those standard idioms don't work, while the
>>gist of the OP's remark still stands like:
>>
>>  egold = 0:
>>  while egold < 10:
>>    if test():
>>      ego1d = egold + 1
> 
> 
> for item in [x for x in xrange(10) if test()]:
> 
> But it isn't about the idioms. It is about the trade-offs. Python allows
> you to do things that you can't do in other languages because you
> have much more flexibility than is possible with languages that
> require you to declare variables before using them. The cost is, some
> tiny subset of possible errors will not be caught by the compiler. But
> since the compiler can't catch all errors anyway, you need to test for
> errors and not rely on the compiler. No compiler will catch this error:
> 
> x = 12.0 # feet
> # three pages of code
> y = 15.0 # metres
> # three more pages of code
> distance = x + y
> if distance < 27:
>     fire_retro_rockets()
> 
> And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
> early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
> employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.
> 
> 
> Declared variables have considerable labour costs, and only marginal
> gains. Since the steps you take to protect against other errors will also
> protect against mistyping variables, declarations of variables is of
> little practical benefit.

As a matter of fact, doing that one on a HP48 calculator with unit 
anotated values would have worked perfectly, except for the distance < 
27 check which would have raised one error.


From antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 15 00:52:07 2005
From: antonyliu2002 at yahoo.com (Anthony Liu)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem splitting a string 
Message-ID: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have this simple string:

mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'

I want to split it and give me a list as

['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

1. I tried mystr.split('_| '), but this gave me:

['this_NP is_VL funny_JJ']

It is not splitted at all.

2. I tried mystr.split('_'), and this gave me:

['this', 'NP is', 'VL funny', 'JJ']

in which, space is not used as a delimiter.

3.  I tried mystr.split(' '), and this gave me:

['this_NP', 'is_VL', 'funny_JJ']

in which, '_' is not used as delimiter.

I think the documentation does say that the
separator/delimiter can be a string representing all
delimiters we want to use.

I do I split the string by using both ' ' and '_' as
the delimiters at once?

Thanks.




	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From sharidas at zeomega.com  Wed Oct  5 06:56:08 2005
From: sharidas at zeomega.com (Satchidanand Haridas)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:26:08 +0530
Subject: Quick help needed: how to format an integer  ?
In-Reply-To: <4343A2FC.6060106@mailpont.hu>
References: <4343A2FC.6060106@mailpont.hu>
Message-ID: <4343B148.6010303@zeomega.com>

One possible solution. Don't know how efficient it is though. :-)

 >>> def put_decimal(s):
...     return ''.join( [ [s[i], '.%s' % s[i]][(len(s)-i)%3 == 0] for i 
in range(0, len(s))])
...
 >>> put_decimal("10001234")
'10.001.234'
 >>> put_decimal("12622")
'12.622'

thanks,
Satchit


durumdara at mailpont.hu wrote:

>Hi !
>
>I need to convert some integer values.
>
>"1622" ->"1 622"
>
>or
>
>"10001234" -> ""10.001.234""
>
>So I need thousand separators.
>
>Can anyone helps me with a simply solution (like %xxx) ?
>
>Thanx for it: dd
>
>Ps:
>Now I use this proc:
>
>def toths(i):
>    s=str(i)
>    l=[]
>    ls=len(s)
>    for i in range(ls):
>        c=s[ls-i-1]
>        if i%3==0 and i<>0:
>           c=c+"."
>        l.append(c)
>    l.reverse()
>    return "".join(l)
>
>
>
>  
>


From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 21:16:24 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 18:16:24 -0700
Subject: Having trouble deleting objects from a list...
Message-ID: <1129770984.225558.284260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a list, and within it, objects are marked for deletion.
However when I iterate through the list to remove objects
not all the marked objects are deleted..
here is a code portion:

			i = 0
			for obj in self.objList:
				if obj.mouseHit:
					print 'delete + ' + `i`
					self.objList.pop(i)
					flag = True
				else:
					i = i + 1
				print `i`

I can't see what I'm doing wrong!
It seems like the last selected object is the one that is not
deleted...



From Tomasik at 2kop.mil.pl  Tue Oct 18 09:32:23 2005
From: Tomasik at 2kop.mil.pl (Robert)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:32:23 +0200
Subject: wxPython + pyPlot
References: <dj2ptf$aqb$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <dj2thb$qrp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Maebe, does anyone have some examples with wxPython and pyplot?

Thanks again,
        Robert 


From nicopernetty at nowhere.fr  Sat Oct  8 17:31:40 2005
From: nicopernetty at nowhere.fr (Nicolas Pernetty)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 23:31:40 +0200
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128794785.152776.116370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051008233140.77ad2c2e@linuxcestcomplique.fr>

Simulink is well fitted for small simulators, but when you run into big
projects, I find many shortcomings appears which made the whole thing
next to unusable for our kind of projects.

That's why I'm interested in Python by the way, it is not a simple clone
like Scilab/Scicos. It is a real language which bring its own
advantages, and its own shortcomings, which I find well suited for our
activity.

If you want, I can send you a paper I wrote last year, detailing all
Simulink shortcomings. I doubt that this mailing list is interested in
such things...(and it's in French...).

Concerning Scilab/Scicos, I'm not really interested in a technology
primarily developed (INRIA and ENSPC) and used by France. Python and all
its libraries and communities are so much more dynamic !
And also I've heard that Scilab was developed in Fortran in a way which
make it rigid and that the sources are poorly documented, not a good
sign for an open source software (and Scilab isn't 'Free' for the FSF).

Regards,


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 8 Oct 2005 11:06:25 -0700, "S?bastien Boisg?rault"
<Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com> wrote :

> 
> Simulink is a framework widely used by the control engineers ...
> It is not *perfect* but the ODEs piece is probably the best
> part of the simulator. Why were you not convinced ?
> 
> You may also have a look at Scicos and Ptolemy II. These
> simulators are open-source ... but not based on Python.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> SB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nicolas Pernetty a ?crit :
> 
> > Hello Phil,
> >
> > Yes I have considered Octave. In fact I'm already using Matlab and
> > decided to 'reject' it for Python + Numeric/numarray + SciPy because
> > I think you could do more in Python and in more simple ways.
> >
> > Problem is that neither Octave, Matlab and Python offer today a
> > framework to build continuous system simulator (in fact Matlab with
> > Simulink and SimMechanics, do propose, but I was not convinced at
> > all).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >
> > On 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com wrote :
> >
> > > Nicholas,
> > >
> > > Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe it can
> > > talk to Python.
> > > Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including having
> > > ODE solvers. I have successfully used it to model and simulate
> > > simple systems. Complex system would be easy to model as well,
> > > provided that you model your dynamic elements with (systems of)
> > > differential equations.
> > >
> 


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 19:08:04 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:08:04 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>
	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2713.1130709910.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> [...]
> > If you're trying to test your code to ensure it explicitly closes all
> > files, you could (from within your tests) rebind built-ins 'file' and
> > 'open' to be a class wrapping the real thing, and adding a flag to
> > remember if the file is open; at __del__ time it would warn if the file
> > had not been explicitly closed.  E.g. (untested code):
> [...]
> 
> In general __del__ methods interfere with garbage collection, don't

Yes, cyclic gc only.

> they?  I guess in the case of file objects this is unlikely to be
> problematic (because unlikely to be any reference cycles), but I
> thought it might be worth warning people that in general this
> debugging strategy might get rather confusing since the __del__ could
> actually change the operation of the program by preventing garbage
> collection of the objects whose lifetime you're trying to
> investigate...

Yeah, but you'll find them all listed in gc.garbage for your perusal --
they DO get collected, but they get put in gc.garbage rather than FREED,
that's all.  E.g.:

>>> class a(object):
...   def __del__(self): print 'del', self.__class__.__name__
... 
>>> class b(a): pass
... 
>>> x=a(); y=b(); x.y=y; y.x=x
>>> del x, y
>>> gc.collect()
4
>>> gc.garbage
[<__main__.a object at 0x64cf0>, <__main__.b object at 0x58510>]

So, no big deal -- run a gc.collect() and parse through gc.garbage for
any instances of your "wrapper of file" class, and you'll find ones that
were forgotten as part of a cyclic garbage loop and you can check
whether they were explicitly closed or not.


Alex


From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Tue Oct  4 14:33:09 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (Mohammed Smadi)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:33:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: how to get any available port
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

hi;
if am using s.bind for a tcp socket.  On the client side i dont really 
care which socket i use as long as i get an available socket.  Is there a 
funciton or a way to get an available socket?

thanks
smadi



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 27 04:27:53 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:27:53 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlbnq$6jm$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlsflt.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlon4$f2k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlucge.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djnvqr$t7o$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <slrndm13s8.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-26, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-25, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
>>>
>>>My biggest complaint here is about returning None or IncomparableValue; 
>>>if that happens, then all code that relies on cmp returning a numeric 
>>>result will have to be rewritten.
>> 
>> 
>> I don't know. There are two possibilities.
>> 
>> 1) The user is working with a total order. In that case the None
>> or IncomparableValues won't be returned anyway so nothing about
>> his code has to change.
>> 
>> 2) The user is working with a partial order. In that case cmp
>> doesn't provide consistent results so the use of cmp in this
>> case was a bug anyway.
>
> Case 3) The user is working with an unknown class, using duck typing, 
> and expects a total order.  If cmp suddenly returned Incomparable or 
> None, the code would break in Unexpected Ways, with Undefined Behavior.

This is case 2. Under the current circumstances working with cmp with
a partial order will give inconsistent behaviour. So your code is
already broken for relying on cmp to give consistent results in 
circumstances it can't.

> This is a classic "exception versus error code" argument; in this case, 
> returning None would be the error flag.  It's almost always better to 
> just throw the exception, because then this allows error-checking at a 
> more natural level.

If you prefer a raised exception, I could live with that.

>>>As for saying that cmp should return some times and raise an exception 
>>>other times, I just find it squicky.
>> 
>> 
>> But cmp already behaves this way. The only difference would be that
>> the decision would be made based on the values of the objects instead
>> of only their class.
>> 
>> 
>>>Admittedly, this is entirely up to 
>>>the class designer, and your proposed guideline wouldn't change cmp's 
>>>behavior for clases that /are/ totally ordered.
>>>
>>>Then again, sets excepted, your guideline doesn't seem very applicable 
>>>in standard library code.
>> 
>> 
>> Well AFAIAC this isn't specific about library code.
>
> A change that cmp return a 4th possible "value" (None or Incomparable) 
> is a fundamental language change.  Because this would break large 
> amounts of existing code, it's a bad idea.

I have always included the option that cmp would raise an exception
instead of returning a fourth value.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 24 11:38:01 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:38:01 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <8qnpl11s9ie8s2pstqja5k5aeikn6tgtu7@4ax.com>
References: <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<5y47f.174197$RW.59989@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<8qnpl11s9ie8s2pstqja5k5aeikn6tgtu7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200510241038.01363.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 24 October 2005 08:19 am, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:35:13 GMT, axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote,
> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> 
> >I see that you cannot make a reasoned argument against the fact that
> >property in the form of houses is taxed in America.
> 
> And what has his inability to do that to your satisfaction got to do
> with the price of eggs?

Funny you should ask that.  Taxation, mostly in the form of income tax
supports a system of farm subsidies in the United States, that pays
farmers for surplus product, thus artificially elevating the price of
several farm products, including milk, cheese, and (you guessed it) eggs.

The purpose of this (ostensibly anyway) is to keep family farmers in
business, because that is viewed as a social benefit in itself (I happen
to agree with this statement, even if it does mean I pay more for eggs --
though the price is still one of the lowest globally, because the US has
such a large natural surplus of agricultural products owing to arable
land and mostly good weather).

Of course it does produce one of the most notorious examples of wastage --
much of that surplus is allowed to rot (or at least this *was* true at one
time, I haven't fact-checked that in over a decade).  It has been proposed
that most of that food should instead go to foreign aid, or to programs
within the US for eliminating poverty. Certainly some of it does, I
have no idea what the current balance is, though.

The ability to do this, moreover represents the philosophical point
that the government "owns" the economy, in that it has the right,
representing the interests of the people, to pursue public good by
manipulating the economy. In other words, we do not believe in the
formal concept of a laissez faire economy, nor in the idea of "anarchic
libertarianism".

People who do support the latter kind of idea frequently say that a
company should be "allowed to do anything to pursue profit, as long
as it isn't illegal".  But of course, they usually turn around and
say that "there is no natural law". The combination of the two philosophies
is nonsensical -- if law consists only of artificial constraints, then
there is no natural basis for arguing what the law "should" allow. Hence,
only the will of the people matters, which means any form of monopoly
restriction is entirely within the powers of a democratic government
to pursue.

Since this includes ANY economic system from "laissez faire capitalism"
to "pure communism", it has no persuasive power whatsoever, and should
be dropped.

If on the other hand, you believe (as I do), that State law is an
embodiment, backed up by State power, to implement the best approximation
we can manage of "natural law" (i.e. law as evident to at least a
consensus of human minds, albeit through transcendental rather than
empirical derivation), then there IS a basis for arguing what laws
"should" be.  But you can't make arguments about what law "should"
be if you don't acknowledge that law is measured against some external
standard.

This is of course, another result of the Human tendency to confuse
"NULL" with "ZERO".  The absence of an external system of evaluating
law, does not mean that all laws must be negated. It equates to having
no basis for prefering them to exist or not, and thus abdicating all
right to change them.  People who believe this really need, therefore,
to shut up.

;-D

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Tue Oct 18 15:53:43 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:53:43 -0500
Subject: example of using urllib2 with https urls
In-Reply-To: <1129650132.645135.155030@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129650132.645135.155030@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435552C7.1000601@websafe.com>

<snipped from working code to upload a file to https:
site---WARNING not tested after snipping>

import httplib
import base64
import sys
import random

#
# Get the length of the file from os.stat
#
username='<username>'
password='<password>'
file='<path to file to be uploaded>'
size=os.stat(file)[6]
#
# file contains the entire path, split off the name
# WebSafe.
#
name=os.path.basename(file)

url='https://www.somedomain.com'
auth_string = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' % (username, password))
rid = '%02x' % random.uniform(0, sys.maxint-1)

conn = httplib.HTTP(url)
conn.putrequest('PUT', '%s/%s' % (path, rid))
conn.putheader('Content-Type', 'text/plain')
conn.putheader('Content-Length', str(size))
conn.putheader('Authorization', 'Basic %s' % auth_string)
conn.endheaders()

#
# Open file in binary mode for reading
#
fp=open(file, 'rb')
#
# Loop over all the file's blocks and send them sequentially
#
blocknum=0
while 1:
    bodypart=fp.read(blocksize)
    blocknum+=1
    if blocknum % 10 == 0:
        print "upload-sending blocknum=", blocknum

    if not bodypart: break
    conn.send(bodypart)

fp.close()
reply, msg, headers = conn.getreply()
print "upload-PUT reply=", reply, " msg=", msg, "headers=", headers


<end snip>

This is for Basic Authentication (if your https site is using
something different, method would be different).  May not be what
you need.  Hope this helps.

Larry Bates

Michele Simionato wrote:
> Can somebody provide an example of how to retrieve a https url, given
> username and password? I don't find it in the standard documentation.
> TIA,
> 
>           Michele Simionato
> 


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Wed Oct  5 03:52:15 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:52:15 GMT
Subject: 2 class with same name in different module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1494.1128498398.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1494.1128498398.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PCL0f.582$PA1.71938@monger.newsread.com>

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
> I have a class in a module which is getting imported in main module. 
> How do you differentiate between the 2 class

import foo
import bar

foo.TheClass().dostuff()
bar.TheClass().dostuff()


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct  5 10:59:38 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:59:38 +1000
Subject: question about output
References: <1128522271.424943.204030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.05.14.59.38.364671@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:24:31 -0700, Java and Swing wrote:

> i have printed out some numbers and they look like
> 
> 10944800e
> 10952560d

They don't look like numbers to me. They have letters at the end. What are
they? What does the letter mean?


> ...if i want to later assign this type of number to variable how can i
> do it?
> 
> for example i can't do...
> 
>>> x = 10944800e
> 
> ..since it says "invalid token" on the "e".

How did you get the "numbers"? If you just typed them in by hand, then
leave the "e" off and you have a number.

If they are supposed to be hex numbers, then you can use:

x = int("10944800e", 16)  # note the quote marks
print x

-> 4450451470

If you don't care about the numeric value, then you just put quote marks
around the number+letter:

x = "10944800e"

but then x will be a string, not a number. 

If none of these answers is what you need, you will need to explain your
problem a little better.


-- 
Steven.



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 12:20:43 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 09:20:43 -0700
Subject: ANN: SPE 0.7.5.d released!
References: <1130421938.507881.207330@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130430043.080669.35810@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I forgot to include a sample of an exported Uml diagram, so here it is
as a pdf:
http://www.stani.be/python/spe/images/smdi.pdf

Previous announcement:
I'm currently packaging the new SPE. The release is a matter of
minutes. Next releases (0.8.*) will focus on the Mac in honour of the
fund raising for the purchase of a Mac. Read more on the homepage.

New features:

    * UML export to bitmap (bmp, gif, jpg, pcx, png, pnm, tif, xbm,
xpm), to vector drawing (eps) or to printer (pdf).
    * Dialog box for passing arguments and options to debugger.
    * Unicode support (specify encoding in source file)

You can read more on the SPE news blog.

It would be nice if some (experienced) Mac users would subscribe to the
developers mailing list to speed up the Mac port for SPE. I expect my
new Mac any moment.

Stani
--
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 15:30:31 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 12:30:31 -0700
Subject: Call C functions from Python
Message-ID: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Is there some other way, besides SWIG, which will allow me to call
functions inside an Ansi C DLL?

Example (C):

defs.h
-------
typedef unsigned long MY_DIGIT;

myapp.c
-----------------
#include "defs.h"

char *DoSomeStuff(char *input, MY_DIGIT *digits) {
    ...
}


..thats an example of something I would like to call from Python.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 06:02:17 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:02:17 +0200
Subject: Setting a Limit to the Maximum Size of an Upload
References: <1130147553.883353.141410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djibf9$8bo$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Joey C." wrote:

> thefile = params["upfile.file"]
> if os.path.getsize(thefile) <= conf["upmax"]:
>    print "File Size Okay."     #Add Functions Later...
> else:
>    print "File Too Large."     #Here, too.
>
> CGItb reported the following error:
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, instance found
>      args = ('coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, instance
> found',)

cgitb probably also reported what line you got that error for, and the values
of the variables involved.  can you perhaps post that information too?

</F> 





From dcrespo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 08:59:16 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 05:59:16 -0700
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2662.1130445736.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2662.1130445736.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130504356.062998.237450@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks... I did it right that way, but asked it without telling how I
did it just to see what are the occurences of others. I thing there's
no better/faster solution.

Many thanks

Daniel



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 07:05:18 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 11:05:18 GMT
Subject: Problem with slices.
Message-ID: <slrndk243e.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

I'm for the moment writing two classes.

A table, which is like a list, but can start at any integer.

A tree which is like a dictionary, but will iterate over the
keys in sorted order.

The problem is that I would like to implemet slices but, that
seems to be impossible with how slices are implemented now.

I wrote the following class to test things out.

class Tst:
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        print key

then I called the interpreter and got this:

>>> from tst import Tst
>>> t=Tst()
>>> t[:]
slice(0, 2147483647, None)
>>> t[:9]
slice(0, 9, None)
>>> t[:'ok']
slice(None, 'ok', None)
>>> t['ok':]
slice('ok', None, None)
>>> t[6:]
slice(6, 2147483647, None)
>>> t[1,2]
(1, 2)
>>> t[1,2:]
(1, slice(2, None, None))
>>> t[(1,2):]
slice((1, 2), None, None)


Now suppose tab is a table with indexes from -5 to 12. 

tab[:4]  would have to make a table ranging from -5 to 4
tab[0:4] would have to make a table ranging from  0 to 4.

But each time I would be given the same argument, being
slice(0, 4, None). So I would be unable to distinghuish
between the two.

I don't think it very likely but I could have a table
with indexes from 2147483647 to 2147483700, so having
2147483647 as value that indicated till the end of
the sequence is a bit awkward.

The same problems occur when I have a tree with integer
key values. But even if I don't use integers as keys
I have a problem with what is returned since None is
a valid key and thus it shouldn't be used this way.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Sun Oct 23 14:21:19 2005
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:21:19 +0200
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <mn.bcc57d5a0522494f.30301@gmx.de>

> I'm new to Python but am wondering what IDE Python developers use?
> I use Mac OS X 10.4.2. 

Just look in the archives of the Pythonmac mailinglist. We have 
discussed this very subject intensively recently, with a pretty 
extensive review of the different IDEs available.

I'll get a copy of WingIDE as soon as I get my new PowerMac.

> Suggestions for plugins for Eclipse would also be nice.

Err, Eclipse (imho) is a H-O-G.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang




From michaelschneider at fuse.net  Fri Oct 14 12:43:10 2005
From: michaelschneider at fuse.net (Michael Schneider)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:43:10 -0400
Subject: Problems with properties
In-Reply-To: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <434FE01E.9070907@fuse.net>

Thanks to all,  I added the object as a subclass (should this be 
required for 2.4.1 ???)

I also switched to the decorator with the @property syntax

Thank you very much for the help for adding @property to the language.

what a great language :-)

Mike


Michael Schneider wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I have been working on learning how to use python properties.
> 
> The get property access is working, but the the set
> property is not working.
> 
> Rather then dispatching the property assignment to setNothing, the
> property object is being replaced with a string.
> 
> I must be doing something very stupid here.
> 
> Could someone please point out my error, I have dents in my forehead
> for this one.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> from unittest import TestCase
> import unittest
> 
> 
> class Task:
>   def __init__(self,command):
>     self._command = command
> 
>   def setNothing(self, value):
>     raise AttributeError
> 
>   def getCommand(self):
>     return self._command
> 
>   command=property(getCommand, setNothing)
> 
> 
> class taskTest(TestCase):
> 
>     def testTask(self):
>         t = Task("dir c:")
>         c = t.command
>         self.assertEquals("dir c:", c)
> 
>         # should fail, but doesn't
>         t.command = "foo Bar"
> 
>         self.assertEquals("dir c:", t.command)
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     unittest.main()


-- 
The greatest performance improvement occurs on the transition of from 
the non-working state to the working state.


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  4 19:08:03 2005
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:08:03 GMT
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
Message-ID: <incb13-otn.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <dhrd6q$rd7$1 at news.isdn.net>, spiffo <noone at hotmail.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I am a corporate developer, working for a single company. Got a new project
>coming up and wondering if I should stay with Python for this new, fairly
>large project, are jump back on the 'safe' M$ bandwagon using a dot net
>language? Cross platform is NOT an issue, but COMPLETE control/compatability
			.
			.
			.
While I know others in this thread have already mentioned the
fact somewhat obliquely, I'll make it explicit:  Python IS "a
dot net language" <URL: http://ironpython.com/ >.


From g.tagliarettiNO at SPAMparafernalia.org  Sun Oct 23 08:14:23 2005
From: g.tagliarettiNO at SPAMparafernalia.org (Gian Mario Tagliaretti)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:14:23 +0200
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <435b627c$0$20493$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>

microsnot wrote:

> I'm new to Python but am wondering what IDE Python developers use? I use
> Mac OS X 10.4.2. I have PythonIDE which comes with MacPython but I don't
> think that has even rudimentary "intellisense". Xcode and Eclipse don't
> seem to support Python out of the box. Suggestions for plugins for Eclipse
> would also be nice.

I use wingIDE and as Alex said before is the best python IDE ever...

cheers
-- 
Gian Mario Tagliaretti
PyGTK GUI programming
http://www.parafernalia.org/pygtk/


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  4 17:05:07 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:05:07 -0500
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <20051004190827.3914.1498135555.divmod.quotient.23977@ohm>
References: <200510041122.25067.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>
	<20051004190827.3914.1498135555.divmod.quotient.23977@ohm>
Message-ID: <20051004210507.GB29124@unpythonic.net>

I've rewritten your middle example to be clearer.
$ python2.4
Python 2.4.1 (#1, May 16 2005, 15:15:14) 
[GCC 4.0.0 20050512 (Red Hat 4.0.0-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> type("Y", (type,), {"mro": lambda x: [float]})("X", (), {})

and here's another one for you to enjoy:
>>> import marshal
>>> f = lambda: None
>>> code = marshal.loads(marshal.dumps(f.func_code).replace('d\0\0S','d\xff\xffS'))
>>> f.func_code = code
>>> f()

Jeff
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From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 27 16:46:32 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:46:32 -0400
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <867jbyit7b.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> How can I replace all None values with the string 'Null' in a
> dictionary?

Iterate over everything in the dictionary:

for key, item in mydict.items():
    if item is None:
       mydict[key] = 'Null'

       <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From pauloneves at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 13:25:50 2005
From: pauloneves at gmail.com (Paulo Eduardo  Neves)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 10:25:50 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129656350.052690.188500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

This is an old thread in this subject that I bookmarked:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/984262217c1b3727/8793a0b7722bb32f



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 26 04:18:58 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 08:18:58 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <slrndluevi.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-25, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> I also think there is the problem that people aren't used to partial
>> ordering. There is an ordering over sets, it is just not a total
>> ordering. But that some pairs are uncomparable (meaning that neither
>> one is smaller or greater) doesn't imply that comparing them is
>> ill defined.
>
> It depends on your definition of "comparison."  Admittedly, <, =, !=, 
> and > can be defined for a partial ordering, but classical mathematics, 
> as understood by most people (even programmers), assumes that unless a 
>== b, a > b or a < b.
>
> The comparisons, as defined this way, are done on a totally ordered set, 
> yes.  But since most comparisons ever done -are- done on a totally 
> ordered set (namely the integers or reals), it's entirely fair to say 
> that "a programmer's expectation" is that comparisons should work more 
> or less like a totally ordered list.
>
>
> With that caevat in mind, comparison on a partially ordered domain /is/ 
> ill-defined; it can give inconsistent results from the "a < b or a > b 
> or a == b" rule.

Against people expectations is not the same as inconsistent.

>> 
>> Well it is a wrong assumption is general. There is nothing impure about
>> partial ordering. 
>
> Impure? Probably not.  Useless from many perspective when "comparisons" 
> are needed, to the point where it's probably safer to throw an exception 
> than define results.
>
>> That is IMO irrelevant. The subset relationship is an ordering and as
>> such has all characteristics of other orderings like "less than",
>> except that the subset relationship is partial and the less than
>> relationship is total. How it is called "subset" vs "less than" is
>> IMO irrelevant. It is about mathematical characteristics.
>
> Still accident.  < wouldn't be used for sets if we had a subset symbol 
> on the standard keyboard, APL fans notwithstanding.

That is only because people usualy work with numbers and sets at the
same time and using different symbols helps making the distinction.

But using <= for subset is mathematical completely correct. If you
want to go purely formal, numbers are just a particular family of
sets where the less than or equal relation of numbers coincides with
the subset relation of sets in that family.

People use the multiplication symbol for multiplying matrices although
matrix multiplication is something different from number multiplication.

If the multiplications of matrices is enough like the multiplication of
numbers to use the same symbol, I see nothing wrong in using the same
symbol for the (strict) subset relation as is used for the less than
(or equal) relation on numbers.

> Simce programmers 
> familiar with Python understand that < on sets isn't a "real" comparison 
> (i.e. provide a total order), they don't expect unique, consistent 
> results from something like sort (or a tree, for that matter).

>> 
>>>By analogy, one can ask, "is the cat inside the box?" and get the answer
>>>"No", but this does not imply that therefore the box must be inside the
>>>cat.
>> 
>> 
>> Bad analogy, this doesn't define a mathematical ordering, the subset
>> relationship does.
>
> Yes, it does.  Consider "in" as a mathematical operator:

My appologies, I though you were going in the "I can in my coat,
my coat can in the box" kind of direction.

> For the set (box, cat-in-box)
>
> box in box: False
> box in cat-in-box: False
> cat-in-box in box: True
> cat-in-box in cat-in-box: False
>
> For the set (box, smart-cat) # cat's too smart to get in the box
>
> box in box: False
> box in smart-cat: False
> smart-cat in box: False
> smart-cat in smart-cat: False
>
> In both these cases, the "in" operator is irreflexive, asymmetric, and 
> transitive (extend to mouse-in-cat if you really care about transitive), 
> so "in" is a partial order sans equality.  A useless one, but a partial 
> order nonetheless.

I don't know if it is useless. This kind of relationship seems very
common in political geography.

This village is in this county, this county is in this state, this state
is in this nation.

Also magizines that test certain equipment to give advice on the best
buy, usualy work with methods that result in partial orderings.

>>>Notice that L1 and L2 contain the same elements, just in different orders.
>>>Sorting those two lists should give the same order, correct?
>> 
>> 
>> No. Since we don't have a total ordering, sorting doesn't has to give
>> the same result. For as far as sorting is defined on this kind of
>> object, the only thing I would expect is that after a sort the
>> following condition holds.
>> 
>> for all i,j if i < j then not L[i] > L[j]
>
> Highly formal, aren't you?

I like the precision it provides.

> Again, common programming allows for "not a > b"
> == "a <= b", so your condition becomes the more familiar:
>
> for all i,j in len(list), if i < j then L[i] <= L[j]

So, should we limit our programming to the common cases
or should a language also provide help for the uncommon
case.

> This condition is also assumed implicitly by many other assumed "rules" 
> of sorted lists, namely their uniqueness:
>
> "If L is a list of unique keys, then sort(L) is a unique list of keys in 
> sorted order."
>
> Yes, this assumes that L has a total order.  Big whoop -- this is a 
> matter of programming practiciality rather than mathematical purity.

I don't find it so practical if the language limits the programmer
to the common cases. I can understand that implementation issues
impose limits on what can pratically realised and often enough that
is the more common practice. So in this case it is about programming
practiciality. But you seem to think it is programming practiciality
if you limit yourself to the common case from the beginning, even
if implementing for a more general case wouldn't be much harder
then implementing only the common case.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Oct 10 18:06:23 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:06:23 -0500
Subject: Learning Python
In-Reply-To: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200510101706.23267.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Monday 10 October 2005 11:50 am, Paul DiRezze wrote:
> I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at 
> learning how to program in Python.  
[...]
> 
> I'm looking for additional resources (links, names of books, 
> whatever...) that you think may help me out.
> 
> I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.

I learned from "Learning Python" from O'Reilly. There's a new
edition out that covers a somewhat more recent version
of Python (2.3, I think).

I learned BASIC as a teen -- Fortran, Pascal, C, and a bit of C++
later, so I think you probably have a similar PoV to what
I had.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 19:19:39 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:19:39 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:
> In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
>> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
>> > Read my essay.
>> > http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
>> >
>> > I talk around those problems.
>> 
>> Actually, you present a design that forces a solution that makes them
>> do what you want down their throats, never mind what they want, or
>> what they've been doing. It shows an amazing ignorance about the
>> internet and how people behave on it. Like most antispam proposals, it
>> won't actually stop spam, just force spammers to concentrate on
>> different channels. You seem to have randomly broken quoting for
>> people who download mail and read it offline, and for any medium
>> that's unreliable or doesn't reliably deliver messages "in order" -
>> which includes mail and news.  Virus writers will love the ability to
>> change peoples address books remotely.
>
> Since - in Roedy's essay - messages are digitally signed, authority
> to advise about any email address updates would presumably be confined
> to those people with access to the sender's private key.

It's not confined to just people - software can do this as well. In
particular, you should expect that the users mail agent will have to
have access to the key, so it can automatically send out the change of
address notice when the user changes their address (it actually needs
it to send any mail). Viruses regularly make users mail agents do
thing. "Change my address" becomes much more entertaining when that
triggers sending out change of addresses notices to everyone in the
address book. More likely, though, there'll be an API for getting the
key so that users can change mail agents without invalidating the
public key that everyone they correspond with has for them, and the
virus will just use that API.

This is also why his plan doesn't stop spam. Most spam comes from
zombies already. This will just cause them to masquerade as the owner
of the owned machine rather than somebody the author has a beef with.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 02:43:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:43:54 +0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org><1130242672.024469.324530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><pan.2005.10.25.12.40.57.426304@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><1130247035.969150.281910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><pan.2005.10.25.14.37.01.642699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1130253162.790086.59130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djn8jc$i14$1@sea.gmane.org>

Iain King wrote:

> Anyway, back to the OP: in this specific case, the cap of 100 groups in
> a RE seems random to me, so I think the rule applies.

perhaps in the "indistinguishable from magic" sense.

if you want to know why 100 is a reasonable and non-random choice, I
suggest checking the RE documentation for "99 groups" and the special
meaning of group 0.

</F>





From codecraig at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 09:06:34 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 06:06:34 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ok, I tried this...

C:\>python
Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import subprocess as sp
>>> p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
>>>
>>> result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

>>>

basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
an error with result.

Ideas?

jas wrote:
> I see that, although I don't totall grasp the code.  However, I am
> looking to basically emulate a command prompt.  i.e. everything u see
> in the windows command prompt should be displayed back in python.
>
> How can I do it without files?
>
> Kent Johnson wrote:
> > jas wrote:
> > > Any other ideas? or examples of using subprocess to do what I was
> > > asking?
> >
> > Actually I thought I was giving an example of what you were asking:
> > - on windows
> > - send a series of commands to a command process
> > - capture the result to a variable
> >
> > The example I referenced sends a series of HELP commands to cmd.exe, captures the output of the commands and saves it to a file.
> >
> > What did I miss?
> >
> > Kent
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kent Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > >>jas wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I would like to redirect the output from os.system to a variable, but
> > >>>am having trouble.  I tried using os.popen(..).read() ...but that
> > >>>doesn't give me exactly what i want.
> > >>
> > >>Here is an example using subprocess:
> > >>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/9fa3a3c287e8e2a3?hl=en&
> > >>
> > >>Kent
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>..this is windows by the way.
> > >>>
> > >>>For example:
> > >>>tmp = os.popen("hostname").read()
> > >>>
> > >>>...works as expected.
> > >>>
> > >>>however,
> > >>>
> > >>>tmp = os.popen("cmd").read()
> > >>>...i would like to have access to the cmd process...i.e. enter commands
> > >>>like a normal command line. os.system() allows this, but i dont want
> > >>>output to the screen..i wanna store it to a variable.  then send
> > >>>content of variable elsewhere,  receive more input and submit it.
> > >>>almost emulate the windows command prompt.
> > >>>
> > >>>any ideas?
> > >>>
> > > 
> > >



From http  Fri Oct  7 12:17:53 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 09:17:53 -0700
Subject: socketServer questions
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> 1. Do I need to use threads to handle requests, if so, how would I
> incorporate them?  The clients are light and fast never sending more
> than 270 bytes of data and never connecting for more than 10 seconds
> at a time. There are currently 500 clients and potentially there
> could be a few thousand... how high does the current version scale?

The way it's written now, the server reads a single request, writes
some stuff to the log, and closes the connection.  It can't handle
multiple requests simultaneously, but that's ok, no connection stays
open for very long.  If you want to have longer-running connections
open simultaneously, you need some type of concurrency such as threads.
But then you have to write the code differently, to serialize the
log recording.  

You probably should get a copy of "Python Cookbook" which explains the
basics of multi-threaded programming, if you have to ask a question
> like that.

> 2. What's the proper way to handle server exceptions (server stops,
> fails to run at boot, etc.)?

> 3. How do I keep people from tampering with the server? The clients
> send strings of data to the server. All the strings start with x and
> end with y and have z in the middle. Is requiring x at the front and
> y at the back and z someplace in the middle enough to keep people
> out? I'm open to suggestions.

It only keeps them out if they don't know to use that x..y..z pattern
and maybe not even then.  Get a copy of "Security Engineering" by
Ross Anderson to have an idea of what you're dealing with, especially
if your server controls something valuable.


From smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com  Thu Oct 13 17:35:59 2005
From: smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:35:59 -0400
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1873.1128997559.509.python-list@python.org>
	<87irw3l0qb.fsf@bigfoot.com> <Xns96ED7D235D096duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <8764s185hc.fsf@bigfoot.com>

>>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> writes:

    Duncan> Chris Smith wrote:
    >> What I really want to do is take four lines of conditional, and
    >> put them into one, as well as blow off dealing with a 'filler'
    >> variable:
    >> 
    >> return "the answer is " + "yes" if X==0 else "no"
    >> 
    >> 
    >> Or whatever the final release syntax is.

    Duncan> The syntax is fine, but the semantics might not be what
    Duncan> you expected. If I understand it correctly you need:

    Duncan> return "the answer is " + ("yes" if X==0 else "no")

    Duncan> Guido's pronouncement said:

    >> In general, 'if' and 'else' bind less tight than everything
    >> except lambda.
I say, with the utmost arrogance, that I won't neglect the parens more
than, say, 50 times. ;)
-Chris


From albalmer at att.net  Mon Oct 10 12:35:58 2005
From: albalmer at att.net (Alan Balmer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:35:58 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <036lk15rkocgpjjlbdl11vsr82tkrc4bmn@4ax.com>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:43:12 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:57:13 -0000, gordonb.u09l7 at burditt.org (Gordon
>Burditt) wrote or quoted :
>
>>HTML enables a heck of a lot of problems:  "web bugs" in email,
>>links to fake sites that appear as real ones in what shows up
>>on the screen, Javascript viruses, denial-of-service attacks
>>(pages that open two windows when you close one), etc.
>>
>>>That is like hating all choirs because televangelists use them.
>>
>>I liken it more to hating all viruses because some of them 
>>install keyloggers.
>
> I take it then you avoid browsers or use Lynx?  No you FIX the
>problems rather than wear a hair shirt. Same for email. Why should
>rich expressions only be permitted to those with websites.  
>
>Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.

And they don't know about attachments?
-- 
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis at att.net


From http  Sun Oct  9 05:49:38 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 02:49:38 -0700
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> > def cache_function(fn):
> >      cache = {}
> >      def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
> >          if args in cache:
> >              return cache[args]
> >          result = fn(*args, **kwargs)
> >          cache[args] = result
> >          return result
> >      return cached_result
> 
> I'm curious... where does cache live after you use cache_function to
> memoize some function? It doesn't appear to be an attribute of the newly
> memoized function, nor does it look like a global variable.

It's in the closure returned by cache_function.  cached_result doesn't
change the value of 'cache' (it only changes the boxed content),
cached_result finds it in the outer scope, so you can get away with
that in Python.  You couldn't do something like:

   def counter():
     n = 0
     def k():
       n += 1    # rebinds n, so Python thinks n is local, oops
       return n
     return k

Since k changes the value of n, Python thinks n is local to k, and
you get a NameError when you try to increment it the first time.
That you can't set the value of a closure variable is something of a
Python wart and is one of the things that makes me want a "local"
declaration in Python.

Closures are a Scheme idiom and Pythonistas tend to use class
instances instead, but both techniques are useful.


From leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam  Wed Oct 26 23:36:10 2005
From: leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam (Andy Leszczynski)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:36:10 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <o4idnTFJk8Uf1_3eRVn-oQ@comcast.com>

Amol Vaidya wrote:
> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have been 
> debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. How do these compare and contrast 
> with one another, and what advantages does one language provide over the 
> other? I would like to consider as many opinions as I can on this matter 
> before I start studying either language in depth. Any help/comments are 
> greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. 

How Ruby solves the problem of global interpreter lock?

A.


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Tue Oct 11 03:23:27 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:23:27 +0200
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <434B686F.10903@designaproduct.biz>


>If you really want to do it right, use SRP, <http://srp.stanford.edu>.
>  
>
This is a bit offtopic here. I read the RFC and I do not see why SRP is 
not vulnerable to dictionary attacks.
If I have a working client software then I can use it to reveal 
passwords. Isn't it a dictionary attack?
Can you please enlighten me?

   Les



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 28 19:59:56 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:59:56 -0400
Subject: Automatic binding of  **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86d5lpdwg3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"lbolognini at gmail.com" <lbolognini at gmail.com> writes:
> I have a very long list of parameters coming from a web form to my
> method foo(self, **kwargs)
>
> I would like to avoid manually binding the variables to the values
> coming through the **kwargs dictionary, just to keep the code cleaner,
> I'd like to bind them automatically
>
> I was adviced against doing it by adding stuff to locals such as:
>
> locals()["x"] = 5
>
> since the Python Docs say:
>
> Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not be modified;
> changes may not affect the values of local variables used by the
> interpreter.
>
> Is there a way to do this? Maybe object.__setattr__() or something that
> involves metaclasses?

.__setattr__() will modify the instance variables, not the local
variables.

> As I might go touching something that I shouldn't (like locals()) I'd
> like some advice from you before deciding which way to go.

Reference the keyword arguments through the dictionary. Looking up
values by name is what dictionaries are for. Trying to move the names
from a dictionary into the local (or global) namespace is usually a
bad idea. If you don't know all the names in advance, you risk
collisions between the items in the dictionary and the legitimate
inhabitants of the namespace. If you do know all the names in advance,
you need to make sure the keys in the dictionary are in the list of
values you expect, so you need an explicit list.

That said, the most straightforward way to do this that I can think of
is with exec:

   for name, value in kwargs.items():
       if name in ('a', 'list', 'of', 'valid', 'keywords'):
          exec "%s = %s" % (name, value)
       else:
          raise ValueError, "Unrecognized keyword " + name

Others will probably tell you that you really shouldn't be using exec.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Oct 12 19:50:49 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:50:49 -0500
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <20051012235048.GA8826@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 08:37:03PM +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:
> So python doesn't use the old SmallTalk 80 SmallInteger hack, or similar? 
> Fair enough - the performance gain is nice, but the extra complexity would 
> be a huge pain, i imagine.

I tried to implement this once.  There was not a performance gain for general
code, and I also made the interpreter buggy in the process.

I wrote in 2002:
| Many Lisp interpreters use 'tagged types' to, among other things, let
| small ints reside directly in the machine registers.
| 
| Python might wish to take advantage of this by designating pointers to odd
| addresses stand for integers according to the following relationship:
|     p = (i<<1) | 1
|     i = (p>>1)
| (due to alignment requirements on all common machines, all valid
| pointers-to-struct have 0 in their low bit)  This means that all integers
| which fit in 31 bits can be stored without actually allocating or deallocating
| anything.
| 
| I modified a Python interpreter to the point where it could run simple
| programs.  The changes are unfortunately very invasive, because they
| make any C code which simply executes
|     o->ob_type
| or otherwise dereferences a PyObject* invalid when presented with a
| small int.  This would obviously affect a huge amount of existing code in
| extensions, and is probably enough to stop this from being implemented
| before Python 3000.
| 
| This also introduces another conditional branch in many pieces of code, such
| as any call to PyObject_TypeCheck().
| 
| Performance results are mixed.  A small program designed to test the
| speed of all-integer arithmetic comes out faster by 14% (3.38 vs 2.90
| "user" time on my machine) but pystone comes out 5% slower (14124 vs 13358
| "pystones/second").
| 
| I don't know if anybody's barked up this tree before, but I think
| these results show that it's almost certainly not worth the effort to
| incorporate this "performance" hack in Python.  I'll keep my tree around
| for awhile, in case anybody else wants to see it, but beware that it
| still has serious issues even in the core:
|     >>> 0+0j
|     Traceback (most recent call last):
|       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
|     TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'int' and 'complex'
|     >>> (0).__class__
|     Segmentation fault
| 
| 
	http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-August/027685.html
	
Note that the tree where I worked on this is long since lost.

Jeff
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From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 04:27:49 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:27:49 +0200
Subject: Question about parsing a string
References: <mailman.1829.1128930824.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h47os6.237r7a1srkiyaN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Nico Grubert <nicogrubert at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> I would like to parse a string in Python.
> 
> If the string is e.g. '[url=http://www.whatever.org][/url]' I would like
> to generate this string:
> '<a href="http://www.whatever.org">http://www.whatever.org</a>'
> 
> If the string is e.g. '[url=http://www.whatever.org]My link[/url]' I 
> would like to generate this string:
> '<a href="http://www.whatever.org">My link</a>'
> 
> Any idea how I can do this? Maybe with regular expressions?

If you know the string always starts with '[url=' and ends with '[/url]'
(or, any string not thus starting/ending are to be skipped, etc), REs
are a bit of an overkill (they'll work, but you can do it more simply).

If your actual needs are different, you'll have to express them more
explicitly.  But assuming the "given starting and ending" scenario:

_start = '[url='
_startlen = len(_start)
_end = '[/url]'
_endlen = len(_end)
def doit(s):
  if s[:_startlen] != _start: raise ValueError
  if s[-_endlen:] != _end: raise ValueError
  where_closebracket = s.index(']')
  url = s[_startlen:where_closebracket]
  txt = s[where_closebracket+1:-_endlen]
  if not txt: txt = url
  return '<a href="%s">%s</a>' % (url, txt)

I've just typed in this code without trying it out, but roughly it
should be what you want.


Alex


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Fri Oct 28 04:51:40 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:51:40 +0200
Subject: how to associate files with application
In-Reply-To: <1130439184.801178.280190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130439184.801178.280190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djsoqs$jk$3@sadr.dfn.de>

Ashok wrote:
> hi,
> i want to know how to make a specific type of file open in an
> application i developed in python when the user clicks on the file.(in
> windows) for eg. a .txt file when clicked opens in notepad, a .doc file
> when clicked opens in MS-word. In the same way i want to make a .xyz
> file open in the application i developed when clicked.
> thanks in advance for any advice.
> 

You need to add several registry keys to do this, here's a short version 
of what you need to do:

Example assumes you want to:

1. associate .ext with C:\Program Files\MyProgram\prog.exe
2. pass on any extra arguments to prog.exe (ie. test.ext 1 2 3 would 
send 1 2 3 as well to prog.exe)
3. associate the icon of prog.exe to any file with a .ext extension

Ok, here's what you need to do:

1. Under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, add a key (folder) with the name .ext
2. Open that key, and set the (Default) value to MyProgramExtendedFile 
(this name is something you choose yourself and should be a "identifier" 
that identifies the file type. If your program supports several types of 
files, make up unique identifiers for each.)
3. Under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, add another key, this time with the same 
name you made up in 2. above, ie MyProgramExtendedFile
4. Open that key, and set the (Default) value to a textual description 
of the type of file. This is what will show up in explorer in the file 
type column. If you leave this empty, the description will be .EXT File
5. Inside MyProgramExtendedFile, add another key with the name shell 
(lower-case is typical, can probably be Shell or whatever)
6. Inside shell, create another key with the name open
7. Inside open, create another key with the name command
8. Inside command, Set the (Default) value to:
    "C:\Program Files\MyProgram\prog.exe" "%1" %*

    Note that you need the quotes as specified above, exactly like written

9. Go back to MyProgramExtendedFile and create another key with the name 
DefaultIcon
10. Inside DefaultIcon, set (Default) value to:
     "C:\Program Files\MyProgram\prog.exe", 0

     This will pick the first icon in prog.exe resource to show for the 
files. Use 1 for second, etc.

There are also other commands you can add. If you want to be able to 
right-click on the file and select a menu item to process the file in a 
specific way, for instance by passing along specific parameters to 
prog.exe, you can add more keys than "open" on the level open is 
created. The (Default) value inside the key is then the text of the menu 
item.

To find examples, just find a file extension in Windows that behaves the 
way you want your own to behave and look through HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.ext 
to find the details you want.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From matt.walsh at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 22:16:00 2005
From: matt.walsh at gmail.com (MBW)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 19:16:00 -0700
Subject: TK question
Message-ID: <1129860960.909273.68840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a class that is a windows in a GUI

the following is the code:

class optWin:

    def __init__(self):
        return None

    def __call__(self):
        self.root = tk()
        self.root.title("My title")
        self.root.mainloop()
        return None

1)Why doesn't this work when I go to call optWin
2)What is a better way to do this

Thanks in advance



From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 20 12:50:09 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:50:09 +0200
Subject: __getattr__, __setattr__
References: <k6g88btb.fsf@python.net>
	<1129822629.250883.78570@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <y84o6sla.fsf@python.net>

"wittempj at hotmail.com" <martin.witte at gmail.com> writes:

> for new style classes  __getattribute__ is defined, see eg.
> http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

>  >>> object.__getattribute__
> <slot wrapper '__getattribute__' of 'object' objects>
>
> Ring any bells?

Yes, of course.  Thanks ;-)

Thomas


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 11 14:17:31 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:17:31 -0500
Subject: dictionnaries and lookup tables
In-Reply-To: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051011181731.GD21569@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 11:06:32AM -0700, m.barenco at gmail.com wrote:
> Note that when I type:
> >>>dir(D)
[...]
> the functions __ge__, __gt__, __lt__, __le__ seem to be non-implemented
> but there is some __doc__ in them. Is there the intention to do
> something similar as is described above or are they here for some
> (future) dictionnary comparison purposes?

Sure they're implemented.  That's why I can compare dictionaries for equality
or order.

>>> d = {1: None}
>>> e = {1: None}
>>> f = {2: None}
>>> d == e
True
>>> d == f
False
>>> d < f or f < e
True

If the operation you need to optimize is "find the largest element that is
smaller than X", then perhaps you want to use the bisect module.  This involves
keeping your information in a sorted list of tuples, instead of in a
dictionary.  However, removing or inserting items has O(n) complexity instead
of O(1).

Jeff
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From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 24 10:03:44 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:03:44 -0400
Subject: output from external commands
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>
	<mailman.2460.1130140388.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <868xwj6mgv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

darren kirby <bulliver at badcomputer.org> writes:
> If all you want is filenames this will work:
>>>> import glob
>>>> files = ["%s" % f for f in glob.glob("*")]

What's the point of doing "%s" % f? How is this different from just
file = [f for f in glob.glob("*")]?

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jabel at plus.net  Mon Oct 24 10:46:18 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:46:18 +0100
Subject: Python/Apache Oddness On OSX
Message-ID: <435CF3BA.9050506@plus.net>

Hi,

I'm running Python 2.3.5/2.4.2 on OSX 10.4.2, and am trying to run CGI 
scripts using the builtin Apache.  For ease, I've symlinked my custom 
modules into the /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages directory, and they 
import OK via command line python.  However, when I perform the import 
from a cgi script, python fails to find the module.  It is definately 
something to do with the symlink, as the CGI works OK if I copy the 
directory into site-packages.  Is there some oddness with Python/Apache 
and symlink imports?

Any pointers would be most useful.

Thanks

J


From meatpodeye at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 19:04:49 2005
From: meatpodeye at yahoo.com (Gorlon the Impossible)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:04:49 GMT
Subject: Pyzine article Python and MIDI
Message-ID: <mijgk1dv4v324ad1pm25ofair5d3kuhpvh@4ax.com>

ok, here's a long shot:
would anyone here who subscribes to Pyzine be willing to send me the
article on Python and MIDI from Issue #6? I would be eternally
grateful as I am strapped for funds and cannot justify spending the
money for a 1 yr subscription when i am only interested in this one
article. Thanks.

here's the link...

http://www.pyzine.com/Issue006/index.html


please?
pretty please?
with sugar on top?

Bri
meatpodeye at yahoo.com


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct 20 10:17:38 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:17:38 -0500
Subject: Accessing a dll from Python
In-Reply-To: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4357A702.1040209@websafe.com>

If you want you can also take a look at something I wrote a while
ago (before ctypes was really well known).  It has worked for me
with .DLLS form Castelle and Expervision that both have extensive
APIs.  It is located here:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/146847

Larry Bates

dcrespo wrote:
> Hi to all,
> 
> Can someone give me lights on how can I deal with dlls from python?
> 
> My main purpose is to get access to a Unitech PT600 Bar Code system. I
> have the dll that works fine through Visual Basic. But I'm migrating to
> Python, so I need a way to use the same dll, or a C library.
> 
> I tried to access a dll created by myself on Visual Basic. The dll just
> have one function. It works perfect when using it on a VB project just
> including it in the references configuration. But I can't access it
> from python. I tried the ctypes module.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Daniel
> 


From rupole at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 26 20:32:09 2005
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:32:09 -0400
Subject: Using Python to add thumbnails to Explorer
References: <djocih$msn$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>
	<1130355747_658@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<djoqn3$s0d$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1130373382_7@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

Sorry, I didn't realize you meant per-file.
However, Pythoncom supports both the interfaces
(IExtractIcon and IPersistFile) specified on the page
you referenced, so you ought to be able to implement
an icon handler with the Pywin32 extensions.

        Roger


"c d saunter" <christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk> wrote in message news:djoqn3$s0d$1 at heffalump.dur.ac.uk...
> Hi Roger,
>        Thanks for the info - I was actually interested in custom
> per file thumbnails rather than icons, but your message sentt me
> pouring through seemingly relevent parts of the registry - however
> what I need isn't there.
>
> Turns out I need to use a .dll shell extension as per
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/
> shellcc/platform/shell/programmersguide/shell_int/shell_int_extending/
> extensionhandlers/shell_ext.asp
>
> Not so simple, and not (directly) a job for Python.
>
> Thanks,
>        Chris
> Roger Upole (rupole at hotmail.com) wrote:
> : As you guessed, the icon locations are stored in the registry.
> : There's a key under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT for each
> : registered file type, with a default value holding the class name.
> : Under the class name, there's a DefaultIcon key that gives
> : the path to the icon.  Using python files an an example, you
> : have HKCR\.py with Default=Python.File, and under
> : HKCR\Python.File\DefaultIcon, you should have the
> : path to py.ico.  You can use the _winreg module to create
> : your own entries.
>
> :      hth
> :         Roger
>
>
>
> 




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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From shitizb at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 20:35:31 2005
From: shitizb at yahoo.com (Shitiz Bansal)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:35:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wierd threading behavior
In-Reply-To: <1129332571.166816.209360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051015003531.30516.qmail@web53809.mail.yahoo.com>

seems that in the thread module, the stdout stream is captured by a single thread. 

Qun Cao <quncao at gmail.com> wrote:Thanks Sam,
That was a stupid typo ( yeah, I actually typed it in :), it should be
(test,()).
I am using python 2.4.1 in ubuntu. I do aware that threading.Thread is
prefered,
but I did not realize thread is deprecated. It is still a mysterious
behavior anyhow. :)

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 19:10:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:10:59 -0400
Subject: Python cgi
References: <1129930246.435616.291660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86r7aesby4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"jbrewer" <jeremy.d.brewer at gmail.com> writes:
> Also, I need to run an external program with my CGI script using
> something like os.system with flags from input forms, which is a major
> security risk.  Is it simply enough to test for flag.isalnum() or
> should I do more to prevent random programs from being run?  I should
> also do some minimal DOS protection as well, so information on how to
> do that simply would be appreciated as well.

Map the input data through a dictionary:

    flags = dict(longflag = '-l', verboseflag = '-v', ...)
    comflags = [flags[flag] for flag in flags if form[flag].value]
    os.system(mycommand, *comflags)

or words to that effect. The critical thing is that data from over
the net never goes into the command, it's just used to look up values
in the dictionary, which provides strings you know are safe to pass to
the command.

The downside is that the client can only use flags your code knows
about. Of course, that's also an *upside*.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 11:25:49 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:25:49 +0200
Subject: Pass a tuple (or list) to a C wrapper function
References: <1129147560.524316.281110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1129152455.3374.20.camel@localhost.localdomain><mailman.1991.1129194578.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129207125.929288.77350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dilu9v$7tb$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Java and Swing" wrote:

> anyhow, for receiving an object from python..is it
>
> ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sO", &x, &y);
>
> ...is it "sO" or "s0" ....is it O (as in the letter) or 0 (as in the
> number)?  I would think "O" the letter..but it looks like a zero.

eh?  if you're not sure, what keeps you from cutting and pasting ?
or comparing it visually with characters that you type in yourself ?

(it's the letter O, for Object.  the corresponding variable must be a
pointer to a PyObject pointer.  see the documentation for details:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/arg-parsing.html

)

</F>





From debl2_nospammy at verizon.net  Sat Oct 22 00:11:51 2005
From: debl2_nospammy at verizon.net (David)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 04:11:51 GMT
Subject: Problem with py2exe
Message-ID: <b_i6f.983$tl5.494@trnddc02>

I am unable to use py2exe to create an executable, even on the simple 
sample that comes with the package.  There seems to be a problem when it 
is copying files.  The ?build? and ?dist? directories are created and 
populated, but there is no executable created.  The error message says:

setup.py returned exit code: can?t copy c:\Python24\Lib\sit

I am running on Windows XP with distribution 2.4.2 and executing the 
setup.py from Pythonwin Build 204

I downloaded py2exe from sourceforge the version of py2exe for Python 2.4

Can anyone suggest what may be wrong?

Thanks in advance

David


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 24 22:53:00 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:53:00 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

James Stroud wrote:
> Here it goes with a little less overhead:
> 
> 
> py> class namespace:
> ...   def __init__(self, adict):
> ...     self.__dict__.update(adict)
> ...
> py> n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
> py> n.bob
> 1
> py> n.ted
> 3
> 
> James

But it's not a dictionary anymore so you can't use it in the same places 
you would use a dictionary.

       foo(**n)

Would raise an error.

So I couldn't do:

    def foo(**kwds):
       kwds = namespace(kwds)
       kwds.bob = 3
       kwds.alice = 5
       ...
       bar(**kwds)     #<--- do something with changed items

Ron


> On Monday 24 October 2005 19:06, Ron Adam wrote:
> 
>>Hi, I found the following to be a useful way to access arguments after
>>they are passed to a function that collects them with **kwds.
>>
>>
>>     class namespace(dict):
>>         def __getattr__(self, name):
>>             return self.__getitem__(name)
>>         def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>>             self.__setitem__(name, value)
>>         def __delattr__(self, name):
>>             self.__delitem__(name)
>>
>>     def foo(**kwds):
>>	kwds = namespace(kwds)
>>	print kwds.color, kwds.size, kwds.shape  etc....
>>
>>     foo( color='red', size='large', shape='ball', .... etc..)
>>
>>
>>It just seems awkward to have to use "string keys" in this situation.
>>This is easy and still retains the dictionary so it can be modified and
>>passed to another function or method as kwds again.
>>
>>Any thoughts?  Any better way to do this?
>>
>>Cheers, Ron



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Fri Oct 14 17:42:29 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:42:29 -0400
Subject: Function to execute only once
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129322058.901077.90680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129326153.90af6e69484850ae117b7a9245589d82@teranews>

"snoe" <case.nelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been seeing alot about decorators and closures lately and my
> initial thought was that this would be a good place to use them instead
> of wrapping it around a class. That was my initial thought :) What I
> came up with was this:

Apparently you're not the first to think of it:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/425445.

George




From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Mon Oct 31 15:05:37 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:05:37 -0600
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2737.1130771558.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>	<1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<3siakvFohl3aU1@individual.net>	<1h57cij.16dkc141lds4s4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.2713.1130709910.509.python-list@python.org>	<1h597yx.wjk2a71spyjhyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<3smn47FoolfbU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2737.1130771558.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3snboiFolt77U1@individual.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
>> Since everyone needs this, how about building it in such that files 
>> which are closed by the runtime, and not user code, are reported or 
>> queryable?  Perhaps a command line switch to either invoke or suppress 
>> reporting them on exit.
>>
> This is a rather poor substitute from correct program design and 
> implementation. It also begs the question of exactly what constitutes a 
> "file". What about a network socket that the user has run makefile() on? 
> What about a pipe to another process? This suggestion is rather 
> ill-defined.
> 
>> Is there any facility for another program to peer into the state of a 
>> Python program?  Would this be a security problem?
> 
> It would indeed be a security problem, and there are enough of those 
> already without adding more.
> 
> regards
>  Steve

All I am looking for is the runtime to tell me when it is doing things 
that are outside the language specification and that the developer 
should have coded.

How "ill" will things be when large bodies of code cannot run 
successfully on a future version of Python or a non-CPython 
implementation which does not close files.  Might as well put file 
closing on exit into the specification.

The runtime knows it is doing it.  Please allow the runtime to tell me 
what it knows it is doing.  Thanks.


From joe at invalid.address  Tue Oct 25 12:00:58 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:00:58 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <m3ll0h8u2t.fsf@invalid.address>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:

> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:56:28 -0500, joe wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I know, they can do whatever they want, it's not a crime,
> > etc. However when they use their market position to disallow
> > competition, it sounds to me like they're worried about something,
> > and trying to squelch it.
> 
> But that's the whole point: they *can't* do whatever they want,

They've been pretty much doing just that for a long time. The "it's
not a crime etc" part was to deflect parenthetical arguments that
confuse the issue. In other words, I was recognizing that a lot of
people don't think what MS does is a crime, and until MS gets
convicted of a crime, it's a matter of opinion. I was trying to say
something else.

> and certain behaviours *are* crimes. Just because Microsoft
> executives wear business suits instead of torn jeans or dirty
> sweatshirts doesn't make them beyond the law.

Maybe, but good lawyers might :-)

Joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Thu Oct  6 20:17:53 2005
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 02:17:53 +0200
Subject: ANN: Pyro 3.5  (remote objects)
Message-ID: <4345beb1$0$11064$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I'm glad to announce the new version of Python's own powerful
remote method invocation technology -- Pyro 3.5 (final)!

You can get it via http://pyro.sourceforge.net, then go
to the SF project homepage download area.

It has many new features and improvements over Pyro 3.4,
which was released mor than a year ago.

Most important new stuff:
- more efficient socket code, up to 20% performance gain
- mobile code bug fixes
- name server bug fixes
- added a few interesting new examples
- manual has been updated
- various other minor fixes and improvements

For the full list, see the change log in the manual:
http://pyro.sourceforge.net/manual/12-changes.html#latest

Have fun, and thanks for your interest, support, and feedback!

--Irmen de Jong


---> What is Pyro?
Pyro is an acronym for PYthon Remote Objects. Pyro is an advanced and
powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python,
that is designed to be very easy to use.

It is extremely easy to implement a distributed system with Pyro, because all
network communication code is abstracted and hidden from your application.
You just get a remote Python object and invoke methods on the object on
the other machine.

Pyro offers you a Name Server, an Event Service, mobile objects, remote
exceptions, dynamic proxies, remote attribute access, automatic
reconnection, a very good and detailed manual, and many examples to get
you started right away.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 17:14:59 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:14:59 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1h5760l.1e2eatkurdeo7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
   ...
> >> print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")
> >
> >Funny you should say that, because I can't stand unnecessary one-liners.
> >
> >In any case, you are assuming that Python will automagically close the
> >file when you are done.
> 
> Nonsense.  This behavior is deterministic.  At the end of that line, the
> anonymous file object out of scope, the object is deleted, and the file is
> closed.

In today's implementations of Classic Python, yes.  In other equally
valid implementations of the language, such as Jython, IronPython, or,
for all we know, some future implementation of Classic, that may well
not be the case.  Many, quite reasonably, dislike relying on a specific
implementation's peculiarities, and prefer to write code that relies
only on what the _language_ specs guarantee.


Alex


From ddelay at club-internet.fr  Sun Oct  9 08:29:39 2005
From: ddelay at club-internet.fr (daniel delay)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:29:39 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43490d16$0$6485$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Fredrik Lundh a ?crit :
> ddelay at club-internet.fr wrote:
> 
> 
>>These 3 intermediate variables used to improve readability
>>can introduce bugs : you have to check that b, c and d are
>>not used anywhere else in the code.
> 
> 
> if you have a fear of introducing new local variables, you have problems
> that cannot be solved by syntax.
> 
> </F>
> 

There's something i don't understand :

I've posted the original message you reply to yesterday, but I still 
cannot see it in comp.lang.python, while I can see your reply, and my 
reply to your reply.

I tried with two different providers to get the messages, but with the 
same result.

Is it possible that this msg could have been throwned away by moderators 
of this list ?? But in this case, you wouldn't have been able to read it...

Daniel delay


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 16:28:24 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:28:24 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <di5a0b$ag0$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<di5a0b$ag0$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510071528.25305.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 07 October 2005 03:01 am, Steve Holden wrote:
> OK, so how do you account for the execresence "That will give you a 
> savings of 20%", which usage is common in America?

In America, anyway, "savings" is a collective abstract noun 
(like "physics" or "mechanics"), there's no such
noun as "saving" (that's present participle of "to save"
only).  How did you expect that sentence to be rendered?
Why is it an "execresence"?

By the way, dict.org doesn't think "execresence" is a word,
although I interpret the neologism as meaning something like 
"execrable utterance":

dict.org said:
> No definitions found for 'execresence'!

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From sweet_thiruvonam at yahoo.co.in  Wed Oct  5 03:01:17 2005
From: sweet_thiruvonam at yahoo.co.in (sweet_thiruvonam at yahoo.co.in)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 00:01:17 -0700
Subject: Turn $6 into $6.000
In-Reply-To: <1128476043.147955.40620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128476043.147955.40620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128493391.314202.293820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

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From grant.bodie at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 12:04:24 2005
From: grant.bodie at gmail.com (grant.bodie at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:04:24 -0700
Subject: Ruby on Rails Agile role
Message-ID: <1129824264.055233.186310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I am looking for 2 Software Engineers with a Java / Python / Ruby
background to work for a rapidly growing start-up using Ruby on Rails
in an Agile environment.


The role is paying between ?40 - ?45k and is based in central London.



Please send your details to grant @ connectionsrecruit.co.uk or call
01189897601



From jhu at metrigenix.com  Wed Oct  5 21:35:01 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:35:01 -0400
Subject: return struct in ctypes
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA04C273@torexch.metrigenix.com>

hi,
 
I need to use ctypes to call the API function like
 
fun1(&list, listLen)              //here  list is struct { long id; long type; long isOpen;}  ListItem;
 
so I define

class LIST_ITEM(Structure):
    _fields_ = [("Id", c_ulong),
                ("Type",c_ulong ),   
                ("isOpen", c_ulong),               
                ]
 
list=LIST_ITEM()
listLen=c_ulong(1)
thedriver.fun1(byref(list),listLen)
doesn't work, here the list is input param, not return info.
 
if use 
list=c_char_p()
thedriver.fun1(byref(list),listLen)
 
how can I convert the list to LIST_ITEM?
 
another Q is :
how to use ctypes to implement this:
 
  struct1 mySettings;                              // here struct1 {long size; long params[32];}
   mySettings.size = sizeof(mySettings); 
 
Where can get ctypes good samples? the samples with the package seems very simple. and the ctypes tutorial doesn't handle these cases either.
 
Thanks in advance
 
James
 
 
 
 
 
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From pmartin at snakecard.com  Mon Oct 24 16:18:27 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:18:27 GMT
Subject: python cgi script not understood as html
References: <80b7f.6738$tV6.6215@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Cdb7f.915$h6.309316@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <nkb7f.6744$tV6.3029@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>

Many thanks !!

Regards,

Philippe



Mitja Trampus wrote:

> Philippe C. Martin wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The following code outputs the actual HTML text to the browser, not the
>> interpreted text.
>> 
>> Any idea ?
>> 
>> html_ok = """
>> Content-Type: text/html\n
>  > <html>
>  > ...
>  > """
> 
> Avoid the starting newline (before content-type).
> Add at least TWO newlines after content-type.
> 
> Or use a package to handle the HTTP stuff for you.



From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Thu Oct  6 10:09:58 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:09:58 -0500
Subject: /usr/bin/env python, force a version
In-Reply-To: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128597929.636452.223890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510060909.58454.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Thursday 06 October 2005 06:25, manatlan at gmail.com wrote:
> I hope you understand my needs. Is there a python/bash mechanism to
> override the default python version of the system ...  and run the
> script with any version of python (but the most recent) ?
> or can you explain me how to do that ? the simplest way ?

This solution makes a few assumptions... but it should work in the 
majority of cases.

The principle is that Python is, in my experience, *usually* installed 
as python2.4 or whatever - even ./configure && make && make install in 
the tarball makes python a symbolic link to a python2.4 executable. 
Assuming that this is the case, and that python2.4 will never be any 
other version of Python:

#!/bin/sh

APPPATH=/path/to/app
PYTHON=`which python2.4`

if [ $? != 0 ]; then
echo "This program requires Python 2.4 to be installed." >/dev/stderr
exit 1
fi

"$PYTHON" "$APPATH" "$@"

Problems: Requires Python 2.4 to be installed as python2.4, and doesn't 
have upward compatibility (i.e. 2.5). But it's at least as good as 
#!/usr/bin/env python2.4, and it gives a clean error message.

-Michael


From mtebeka at qualcomm.com  Thu Oct  6 06:21:47 2005
From: mtebeka at qualcomm.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:21:47 +0300
Subject: Swig and pointers
In-Reply-To: <1128541976.495441.46140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128541976.495441.46140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051006102147.GB8064@qualcomm.com>

Hello Java,

> ...
> extern int doIt(char *a, MY_DIGIT **digit);
> %include cpointer.i
> %pointer_functions(MY_DIGIT, md_prt);
Don't you mean md_ptr?

> %typemap(in) (char *a, MY_DIGIT **argv) {
>   /* Check if is a list */
>   if (PyList_Check($input)) {
>     int i;
>     $1 = PyList_Size($input);
>     $2 = (MY_DIGIT **) malloc(($1+1)*sizeof(long *));
>     for (i = 0; i < $1; i++) {
>       PyObject *o = PyList_GetItem($input,i);
>       if (PyString_Check(o))
> 	$2[i] = PyString_AsString(PyList_GetItem($input,i));
>       else {
> 	PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"list must contain strings");
> 	free($2);
> 	return NULL;
>       }
>     }
>     $2[i] = 0;
>   } else {
>     PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"not a list");
>     return NULL;
>   }
> }
> 
> %typemap(freearg) (char *a, MY_DIGIT **argv) {
>   free((MY_DIGIT *) $2);
> }
> 
> 
> ..from Python I am trying
> 
> >> ptr = []
> >> doIt("blah", ptr)
> 
> I thought this was the correct approach as described here:
> http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/SWIGDocumentation.html#Python_nn59
> 
> However, python comes back and says "TypeError: argument number 2: a
> 'MY_DIGIT **' is expected, 'list([])' is received"
> 
> ..any ideas? 
Didn't check it but from http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Library.html it looks
like you need to do:
    ptr = new_md_prt()

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <mtebeka at qualcomm.com>
http://tebeka.bizhat.com
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys
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From enas_khalil at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 14:29:29 2005
From: enas_khalil at yahoo.com (enas khalil)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IOError: brown is not installed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5445.1129225802.508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20051013182929.30858.qmail@web30514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


hello ,

when i run this code for unigramtagger :

 

from nltk.tagger import *
from nltk.corpus import brown
    # Tokenize ten texts from the Brown Corpus
train_tokens = []
for item in brown.items()[:10]:
    train_tokens.append(brown.read(item))
    # Initialise and train a unigram tagger
mytagger = UnigramTagger(SUBTOKENS='WORDS')
for tok in train_tokens: mytagger.train(tok)

#Once a UnigramTagger has been trained, the tag() method can be used to tag new text: 
text_token = Token(TEXT="John saw the book on the table")
WhitespaceTokenizer(SUBTOKENS='WORDS').tokenize(text_token)
mytagger.tag(text_token)
print text_token

 

i got the following :

 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "F:\MSC first Chapters\unigramgtag1.py", line 5, in -toplevel-
    for item in brown.items()[:10]:
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\nltk\corpus\__init__.py", line 589, in items
    self._initialize()
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\nltk\corpus\__init__.py", line 518, in _initialize
    raise IOError('%s is not installed' % self._name)


IOError: brown is not installed

 

although i have extracted the brown folder and put it in the NLTK path 

 

what should i do 

thanks in advance

 

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 06:48:29 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:48:29 +1000
Subject: A question about searching with multiple strings
References: <1129927157.674735.13000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.10.48.29.460548@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:39:17 -0700, googleboy wrote:

> Hi there.
> 
> I have defined a class called Item with several (about 30 I think)
> different attributes (is that the right word in this context?).

Generally speaking, attributes shouldn't be used for storing arbitrary
items in an object. That's what mapping objects like dicts are for. I
would change your class so that it no longer mucked about with it's
internal __dict__:

class Item():
    def __init__(self, height, length, function, **kwargs):
        # assumes that ALL items will have height, length, function
        # plus an arbitrary number (may be zero) of keyword args
        self.height = height
        self.length = length
        self.function = function
        self.data = kwargs  # store custom data in an instance attribute,
                            # NOT in the object __dict__


You would use it something like this:

def create_items():
    all_items = []
    # WARNING WARNING WARNING
    # pseudo-code -- this doesn't work because I don't
    # know what your input file looks like
    open input file
    for record in input file:
        h = read height
        l = read length
        f = read function
        D = {}
        for any more items in record:
            D[item key] = item value
        newitem = Item(h, l, f, D)
        all_items.append(newitem)
    close input file
    return all_items

Now you have processed your input file and have a list of Items. So let's
search for some!

Firstly, create a function that searches a single Item:

def SearchOneOr(source, height=None, length=None, \
                function=None, **kwargs):
    """Performs a short-circuit OR search for one or more search term."""
    if height is not None:
        if source.height == height: return True
    if length is not None:
        if source.length == length: return True
    if function is not None:
        if source.function == function: return True
    for key, value in kwargs:
        if source.data.has_key(key) and source.data[key] == value:
            return True
    return False

def SearchOneAnd(source, height=None, length=None, \
                function=None, **kwargs):
    """Performs a short-circuit AND search for one or more search term."""
    if height is not None:
        if source.height != height: return False
    if length is not None:
        if source.length != length: return False
    if function is not None:
        if source.function != function: return False
    for key, value in kwargs:
        if source.data.has_key(key) and source.data[key] != value:
            return False
        else:
            return False
    return True


Now create a function that searches all items:

def SearchAll(source_list, flag, height=None, length=None, \
              function=None, **kwargs):
    found = []
    if flag:
        search = SearchOneOr
    else:
        search = SearchOneAnd
    for source in source_list:
        if search(source, height, length, function, kwargs):
            found.append(source)
    return found

Now pass all_items to SearchAll as the first argument, and it will search
through them all and return a list of all the items which match your
search terms.

Hope this helps.


-- 
Steven.



From programmer.py at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 10:45:29 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:45:29 -0500
Subject: How to call a script from another?
In-Reply-To: <434e6f56$0$90426$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
References: <434e6f56$0$90426$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510130745v766b30f5r780076be7c3d65d2@mail.gmail.com>

I think this is the simplest way to do that:

import sys
sys.path.append('/path/to/directory/containg/script')

import zopescript
zopescript.main()

The code above assumes:
o that the path you use to append contains an __init__.py in it...
o zopescript is the module you want to `run'
o main is the method in zopescript that cranks up zope.

I'm not sure of how to do it the hard way...

jw

On 10/13/05, Christian <christian at spam.no> wrote:
>  From a not even newbie:
>
> Without knowing much about Python (yet) I'm trying to install the CMS
> Zope via FTP (with the well documented changes to make it work on an
> Apache server).
> By birth Zope is started from a shell script. And not having the
> permissions to execute such ones I'll try writing a .py script (with the
> shebang that I allready knows will do the job) to call another .py
> script like the original shell script does.
>
> So my question is:
> How do I call a .py script from another .py script?
> (Writing the rest - I hope - is piece of cake ;-) ).
>
> (And yes, I know that there are a lot of other problems but for starters
> I just would like to try to call a .py script from another .py script.)
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 04:50:08 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:50:08 +0200
Subject: override a property
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1h4mizj.17bo24b1k0idliN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Robin Becker <robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> > Robin Becker a ?crit :
> > 
> >> Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need
> >> to create another class with the property changed?
> > 
> > Do you mean attributes or properties ?
> 
> I mean property here. My aim was to create an ObserverProperty class 
> that would allow adding and subtracting of set/get observers. My current
> implementation works fine for properties on the class, but when I need
> to specialize an instance I find it's quite hard.

A property is an 'overriding descriptor', AKA 'data descriptor', meaning
it "captures" assignments ('setattr' kinds of operations), as well as
accesses ('getattr' kinds), when used in a newstyle class.  If for some
reason you need an _instance_ to bypass the override, you'll need to set
that instance's class to one which has no overriding descriptor for that
attribute name.  A better design might be to use, instead of the builtin
type 'property', a different custom descriptor type that is specifically
designed for your purpose -- e.g., one with a method that instances can
call to add or remove themselves from the set of "instances overriding
this ``property''" and a weak-key dictionary (from the weakref module)
mapping such instances to get/set (or get/set/del, if you need to
specialize "attribute deletion" too) tuples of callables.


Alex


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:02:47 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:02:47 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<llrik1ph4mpkud83t9qpnjks533vpkv24e@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.22.49.29.840592@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7t1rk1p8dihr8ajhrbcapcdoqnv8p3c0md@4ax.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:49:32 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>Oh gosh, pictures of a new house. Why didn't you say so??? If you're
>sending pictures named "my_new_house1.jpg" etc then OF COURSE they have
>to be imbedded in a HTML email, otherwise how could anyone know what they
>were?

I suppose your subscribe to the shoebox theory of picture handling.
Just dump them in a box. It is OBVIOUS what they are. Go back to them
years later, and you would be surprised how baffling they can be, or
if the next generation wants to understand them.  

You suggest there is something nefarious about wanting to caption and
share images by email.  Why NOT?
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From adelagon at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 04:15:19 2005
From: adelagon at gmail.com (Alvin A. Delagon)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:15:19 +0800
Subject: Any SOAPpy users here?
Message-ID: <43575217.8010108@gmail.com>

Hello python programmers! I would like to add myself to the ever 
increasing number of python users. Here's my first question. I've 
written two SOAP clients using PERL and a PHP. I tried to wirte a new 
SOAP client using python but I'm having problems. First, I can't seem to 
find a good documentation of the SOAPpy module. Second, I found a code 
snippet of a python SOAP client but it was designed only to use the 
SOAPproxy function. How can I create a python SOAP client given these 
parameters:

URI: urn:TESTWS
HOST: https://hostname/cgi-bin/server.cgi

Here's the PERL snippet that I'm trying to convert into a pythinic 
language:

my $login = SOAP::Lite
   -> uri ($URL)
   -> proxy ($host)
   -> login($uname, $epwd);
my $result = $login
   ->result;

Help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance and more power to 
python programmers!

-------------- next part --------------
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From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 21:41:28 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:41:28 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7rZ7f.6819$dO2.5775@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<djppjp$t5s$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<qHd8f.6518$BZ5.2214@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <djrvk8$mb5$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:qHd8f.6518$BZ5.2214 at newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

>>> There's a huge difference to the non-techy consumer.  One of the
>>> buggest reasons Linux has had a reputation of being harder to use
>>> than Windows was the fact that Linux had to be installed, while
>>> Windows just booted up.

>> Is that really true? I mean, I remember distributions of Linux that you 
>> could just stick in the CD, boot from CD, and you were up in minutes. 
>> Installing was as simple as pushing the 'install to hard drive' button.

[snip]
> But picture that, when this was less true, you wanted to buy a machine 
> with the newest-whizbang graphics card or disk controller.  For Windows, 
> the manufacturer would make sure the proper drivers are installed and 
> configured.  For Linux, you the consumer had to find a driver, install it, 
> configure it (the phrase "drive geometry" sticks in my head) and deal with 
> the lack of useful feedback if anything goes wrong.
[snip]

    That's a really good point.

    DS




From programmer.py at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 15:23:49 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:23:49 -0500
Subject: Function to execute only once
In-Reply-To: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510141223k5e6eb69aj1284a70936f4780c@mail.gmail.com>

If I understand you correctly, you want `tmp' to be global...

If so, declare it as so in execute ->

def execute():
    global tmp
    tmp = tmp+1
    return tmp

Otherwise, what happens is that you declare a variable local to
execute, that is named tmp.  When the assignment occurs it uses the
global value of `tmp', which is 0, and adds it to the *local* tmp.

I hope that is not too confusing.

jw

On 14 Oct 2005 12:11:58 -0700, PyPK <superprad at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi if I have a function called
> tmp=0
> def execute():
>     tmp = tmp+1
>     return tmp
>
> also I have
> def func1():
>     execute()
>     ....
> and
> def func2():
>     execute()
>     ....
>
> now I want execute() function to get executed only once. That is the
> first time it is accessed.
> so taht when funcc2 access the execute fn it should have same values as
> when it is called from func1.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From dwahler at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 21:52:15 2005
From: dwahler at gmail.com (David  Wahler)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 18:52:15 -0800
Subject: Reuse base-class implementation of classmethod?
In-Reply-To: <9By9f.17396$65.522385@twister1.libero.it>
References: <9By9f.17396$65.522385@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1130813535.688189.181610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Giovanni Bajo wrote:
> Hello,
>
> what's the magic needed to reuse the base-class implementation of a
> classmethod?
>
> class A(object):
>    @classmethod
>    def foo(cls, a,b):
>        # do something
>        pass
>
> class B(A):
>     @classmethod
>     def foo(cls, a, b):
>          A.foo(cls, a, b)   # WRONG!
>
> I need to call the base-class classmethod to reuse its implementation, but I'd
> like to pass the derived class as first argument.
> --
> Giovanni Bajo

See the super object. In your case, it can be used like this:

class B(A):
    @classmethod
    def foo(cls, a, b):
        super(B, cls).foo(a, b)

This all assumes you want to modify the behavior of foo in a subclass.
If not, of course, you don't need to override it at all.

-- David



From joe at invalid.address  Tue Oct 25 10:56:28 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:56:28 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>

Not Bill Gates <nbg at nbg.invalid> writes:

> davids at webmaster.com wrote...
> 
> >     1) There is no other operating system worth selling. In this
> > case, you are right, you have no choice but to sell the Microsoft
> > OS, but the deal they're offering you harms you in no way. (Unless
> > you intended to sell PCs with no OS at all.)
> > 
> >     2) There are other realistic competing operating systems. In
> > this case, you were foolish to agree to Microsoft's deal. You lost
> > out on the realistic competing markets. That is, unless Windows
> > only really was a better deal, in which case you were wise to take
> > the deal and have no reason to be upset.
> 
> The flaw with this is that business owners don't get to decide what 
> the market wants.  And the market wanted the Microsoft OS.  Every 
> other OS in the market had bit player status, via the economic 
> principle called increasing returns. 
> 
> You either sell what the market wants, or you go out of business.

I'm hesitant to get into this, but I keep wondering why, if there is
no other competing OS, or not one worth worrying about, the MS
business agreements are so draconian? Why would a company come up with
such heavy handed agreements if it wasn't worried about competition?

Yes, I know, they can do whatever they want, it's not a crime,
etc. However when they use their market position to disallow
competition, it sounds to me like they're worried about something, and
trying to squelch it.

Joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct  6 23:01:02 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 03:01:02 -0000
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<867jcqoxgk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <11kbp7eogjniq4c@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-07, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

>>> Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that
>>> British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled,
>>> while first-generation Americans whose English is. um,
>>> limited, are not.
>>
>> What?!?  I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of
>> the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a
>> nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting)
>> where the dialog was inaudible because of the music.
>
> Maybe they were dubbed?

I don't think so.  Where exactly did you see all these
sub-titled British TV/movies?

In all the British movies and TV shows I've seen in the US, the
British actors sound the same as the do on British TV. I don't
recall ever going to a theater in England, but I've seen plenty
of TV in England.  To me the dialog sounds the same as it does
in the US.

> I know America International dubbed the first version of "Mad
> Max" that they imported into the US. Then again, American
> International is well-know for their quality.

That could be.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  LIFE is a
                                  at               never-ending INFORMERCIAL!
                               visi.com            


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 04:25:05 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:25:05 +0100
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>

Johnny Lee wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Johnny Lee wrote:
>>
>>>Alex Martelli wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>  ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  try:
>>>>>     webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url)
>>>>>  except urllib2.URLError:
>>>>
>>>>  ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  webPage.close()
>>>>>  return True
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>  But every time when I ran to the 70 to 75 urls (that means 70-75
>>>>>urls have been tested via this way), the program will crash and all the
>>>>>urls left will raise urllib2.URLError until the program exits. I tried
>>>>>many ways to work it out, using urllib, set a sleep(1) in the filter (I
>>>>>thought it was the massive urls crashed the program). But none works.
>>>>>BTW, if I set the url from which the program crashed to base url, the
>>>>>program will still crashed at the 70-75 url. How can I solve this
>>>>>problem? thanks for your help
>>>>
>>>>Sure looks like a resource leak somewhere (probably leaving a file open
>>>>until your program hits some wall of maximum simultaneously open files),
>>>>but I can't reproduce it here (MacOSX, tried both Python 2.3.5 and
>>>>2.4.1).  What version of Python are you using, and on what platform?
>>>>Maybe a simple Python upgrade might fix your problem...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks for the info you provided. I'm using 2.4.1 on cygwin of WinXP.
>>>If you want to reproduce the problem, I can send the source to you.
>>>
>>>This morning I found that this is caused by urllib2. When I use urllib
>>>instead of urllib2, it won't crash any more. But the matters is that I
>>>want to catch the HTTP 404 Error which is handled by FancyURLopener in
>>>urllib.open(). So I can't catch it.
>>>
>>
>>I'm using exactly that configuration, so if you let me have that source
>>I could take a look at it for you.
>>
[...]
> 
> I've sent the source, thanks for your help.
> 
[...]
Preliminary result, in case this rings bells with people who use urllib2 
quite a lot. I modified the error case to report the actual message 
returned with the exception and I'm seeing things like:

http://www.holdenweb.com/./Python/webframeworks.html
    Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
Start process 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/steveholden-20
Error: IOError while parsing 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/steveholden-20
    Message: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
    .
    .
    .

So at least we know now what the error is, and it looks like some sort 
of resource limit (though why only on Cygwin betas me) ... anyone, 
before I start some serious debugging?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 19:40:07 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:40:07 GMT
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1807.1128900330.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>	<200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>
	<mailman.1807.1128900330.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rTh2f.12332$U51.276@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Timothy Smith:

> FYI i have located where the problem was. in the first if statement
> there was an unbalanced ). now since when does python not give a
> descriptive error for that?

I see this with the arrow pointing at the extra ')':

 >pythonw -u "xx.py"
   File "xx.py", line 3
     if 
Decimal(self.parent.TillDetails[self.TillSelection.GetStringSelection()]['ChangeTinBalance'])) 
== Decimal('0'):
 
                              ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

    Neil


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 17:42:09 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 21:42:09 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2A9E6FFF60castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:17:03 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
> 
>> Yup. When NS was the 800 lb gorilla 
> 
> When was this? When did Netscape have a monopoly in any market?
> 
> Netscape was never the 800 lb gorilla.
> 
>> on they acted like MS, 
> 
> When did Netscape executives perjure themselves in court?
> 
> When did Netscape commit fraud? Astro-turfing? Patent infringement? Theft
> of code?

They got killed too soon.

> that was then, this is now, and unlike IBM, Microsoft hasn't yet learnt
> about karma.

Which is a good thing, since MS is not a human being. It's a company, a 
thing to make money, so it can make more money.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From nospam at here.com  Mon Oct 17 13:36:45 2005
From: nospam at here.com (Matt Feinstein)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:36:45 -0400
Subject: Installing Python at Work
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ntn7l1pp55ola0mkqpqerclldutu81bcgb@4ax.com>

On 17 Oct 2005 08:12:35 -0700, "Nikola" <tsaparas4life at hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I'm currently learning Python for my own use.
>I'm considering installing it on a work laptop, knowing that it is
>non-licensed, distributable software.
>
>However, does it access communication ports?  I know the company checks
>their ports regularly for activity.
>
>I won't be doing anything very serious; I'm just trying out Python,
>learning the basics from 'Learning Python' by O'Reilly.

Python installations are pretty benign. Note, however, that when you
install additional modules, you are trusting the module writer.

For locality, you can do a completely local Python installation in
Linux, and generally speaking, additional modules can be installed
locally as well. Under win32, the standard binary installer makes a
registry entry which is checked when additional (binary) modules are
installed. I don't think there's any other 'non-local' behavior.

Matt Feinstein

--
There is no virtue in believing something that can be proved to be true.


From sean at buildingonline.com  Mon Oct 10 00:11:56 2005
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:11:56 -0700
Subject: best Pythonic way to do this sort: Python newb
Message-ID: <rQl2f.3390$gj1.199@fed1read05>

Hello all

I have build a list that contains data in the form below
-- simplified for question --
myList = [[value1, value2, value3],[value1, value2, value3], ...]

I have a function which takes value3 from the lists above and returns
another value.  I want to use this returned value to sort the lists.

So, my resultant list would be ordered by the return value of the
function with value3 as its argument.

>From a relative Python newb, what is the best way to do this?

Thanks for any help offered. 




From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 15:14:11 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 12:14:11 -0700
Subject: Help creating extension for C function
In-Reply-To: <1129056123.654224.18070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128714478.552412.135950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129049460.649101.96890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1914.1129055650.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129056123.654224.18070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129058051.426314.28670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

..ok I modified wrap_doStuff, so it just returns 0 instead of return
PyBuildValue....this fixed the problems I had with compiling.

however, when I try using it in Python..I get a SystemError: error
return without exception set.

Anyhow, I need PyBuildValue to work.  One other note, the VC++ 6
compiler gives two warnings, one of which is...

"warning C4013: 'PyBuildValue' undefined; assuming extern returning
int"

thanks.

>> from DLLTester import *
>> x = doStuff("1,2,3,4,5", ",")
>>

Java and Swing wrote:
> Fredrik,
>   I now have this.
>
> myapp.c
> --------
> #include <string.h>
> #include <stdlib.h>
> #include "Python.h"
>
> int doStuff(const char *input, const char *d) { ... }
>
> static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> 	// get the arguments from Python
> 	int result;
> 	char *input = 0;
> 	char *d = 0;
> 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &input, &d);
> 	if (!ok) return 0;
>
> 	// make the function call
> 	result = doStfuff(input, d);
>
> 	// return the result
> 	return PyBuildValue("i", result);
> }
>
> static PyMethodDef functions[] =
> {
> 	{"PyDoStuff", wrap_doStuff, METH_VARARGS, "some documentation"},
> 	{NULL, NULL}
> };
>
> extern PyMODINIT_FUNC initDLLTester(void)
> {
>     Py_InitModule4(
>         "DLLTester", functions, "my doStfuff function", NULL,
> PYTHON_API_VERSION
>         );
>
> }
>
> ...when I try to compile in Visual C++ 6, I get
>
> Linking...
>    Creating library Release/DLLTester.lib and object
> Release/DLLTester.exp
> test.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _PyBuildValue
> Release/DLLTester.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
> Error executing link.exe.
>
> Any ideas what's happening here?
>
> DLLTester.dll - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)
>
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> > Java and Swing wrote:
> >
> > > So is "module.c" a new C file or do I add it to my existing, myapp.c?
> >
> > it's a complete module.  if you want it to do something other than printing
> > the arguments, replace the "do stuff" section with your own code.  if you
> > want to call it something else, rename it.  if you want to change the API,
> > change it.  it's not that large; you should be able to figure out what it does
> > and how it does it in no time at all.
> > 
> > </F>



From bh at intevation.de  Wed Oct 12 12:24:56 2005
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:24:56 +0200
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<s9zy84y67r1.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
	<1129133752.747652.246050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <s9zu0fm66uf.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>

"Java and Swing" <codecraig at gmail.com> writes:

> thanks for the tip, however even when I do not free aString or bString,
> i'm still crashing at the malloc in the c function, not the wrapper.

Do you have any more places where you use free incorrectly?  In my
experience, calling free with invalid values can corrupt the data
structures used by the memory allocator in such a way that subsequent
malloc calls crash.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From cfajohnson at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 14:08:12 2005
From: cfajohnson at gmail.com (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:08:12 -0400
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list of
	files)
References: <mailman.2111.1129375867.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5t723-v71.ln1@rogers.com>

On 2005-10-15, Jari Aalto wrote:
>
> [Keep CC, thank you]
>
> Please suggest comments how can I make this script to work 
> from bash. Also how can I skip better the [0] argument from
> command line without hte extra variable i?
>
>     #!/bin/bash
>
>     function compile ()
>     {
>         python -c '
>         import os, sys, py_compile;
>         i = 0;
>         for arg in sys.argv:
>             file  = os.path.basename(arg);
>             dir   = os.path.dirname(arg);
>             i += 1;
>             if i > 1  and os.path.exists(dir):
>                 os.chdir(dir);
>                 print "compiling %s\n" % (file);
>                 py_compile.compile(file);
>         '  $*
>     }

   Don't indent:

function compile ()
{
         python -c '
import os, sys, py_compile;
i = 0;
for arg in sys.argv:
      file  = os.path.basename(arg);
      dir   = os.path.dirname(arg);
      i += 1;
      if i > 1  and os.path.exists(dir):
          os.chdir(dir);
          print "compiling %s\n" % (file);
          py_compile.compile(file);
  '  $*
}

>     compile $(find path/to -type f -name "*.py")
>
>     # End of example
>
> The error message reads:
>
>       File "<string>", line 2
>         import os, sys, py_compile;
>         ^
>     SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> Jari
>


-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson                     <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ==================================================================
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
    <http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 15 07:38:22 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:38:22 +0200
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list of
	files)
References: <oe5rummb.fsf@blue.sea.net>
Message-ID: <diqpng$k1o$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jari Aalto wrote:

> Please suggest comments how can I make this script to work
> from bash.

replace it with a call to the compileall module?

    $ python -mcompileall [directory...]

?

    $ python -mcompileall -h
    option -h not recognized
    usage: python compileall.py [-l] [-f] [-q] [-d destdir] [-x regexp] [directory ...]
    -l: don't recurse down
    -f: force rebuild even if timestamps are up-to-date
    -q: quiet operation
    -d destdir: purported directory name for error messages
       if no directory arguments, -l sys.path is assumed
    -x regexp: skip files matching the regular expression regexp
       the regexp is search for in the full path of the file

</F>





From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct  7 02:50:33 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:50:33 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-06, Diez B. Roggisch schreef <deets at nospam.web.de>:
>> Suppose we have a typesystem which has the type ANY, which would mean
>> such an object could be any type. You could then have homogenous lists
>> in the sense that all elements should be of the same declared type and
>> at the same time mix all kind of type in a particular list, just
>> as python does.
>
> The you have JAVA Object or C void*. Which cause all kinds of runtime 
> troubles.... because they essentially circumvene the typechecking!

Why do you call this a JAVA Object or C void*? Why don't you call
it a PYTHON object. It is this kind of reaction that IMO tells most
opponents can't think outside the typesystems they have already
seen and project the problems with those type systems on what
would happen with python should it acquire a type system.

>> So how would this limit python.
>
> The limitation is that in static languages I must _know_ what type to 
> cast such an ANY, before calling anything on it. Otherwise its useless.
>
>>>even though ususally the contents of a list 
>>>share some common behaviour. And that exactly is the key point here: in 
>>>a statically typed world, that common behaviour must have been extracted 
>>>and made explicit.
>> 
>> 
>> Would my suggestion be classified as a statically typed world?
>
> See above.

Your answer tells more about you then about my suggestion.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 12:01:43 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 02:01:43 +1000
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:16:39 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:

> Come to think of an experience that I shared
> with a student who was one of those highly
> creative experimentalists you seem to have
> in mind. He had just bought a new PC and
> wanted to check how fast its floating point
> unit was as compared to our VAX. After
> having done his wonderfully creative
> experimenting, he was utterly dejected: "Our (old)
> VAX is over 10'000 times faster than my new PC",
> he told me, almost in despair. 

Which it was. It finished executing his code in almost 1/10,000th of the
time his PC could do.

> Whereupon I,
> always the uncreative, dogmatic theoretician,
> who does not believe that much in the decisiveness
> of the outcome of mere experiments, told him
> that this was *impossible*, that he *must* have
> made a mistake...

It wasn't a mistake and it did happen. The VAX finished the calculation
10,000 times faster than his PC. You have a strange concept of "impossible".

 
>     It turned out that the VAX compiler had been
> clever enough to hoist his simple-minded test
> code out of the driving loop. 

Optimizations have a tendency to make a complete mess of Big O
calculations, usually for the better. How does this support your
theory that Big O is a reliable predictor of program speed?

For the record, the VAX 9000 can have up to four vector processors each
running at up to 125 MFLOPS each, or 500 in total. A Pentium III runs at
about 850 Mflops. Comparing MIPS or FLOPS from one system to another is
very risky, for many reasons, but as a very rough and ready measure
of comparison, a four processor VAX 9000 is somewhere about the
performance of a P-II or P-III, give or take some fudge factor.

So, depending on when your student did this experiment, it is entirely
conceivable that the VAX might have been faster even without the
optimization you describe. Of course, you haven't told us what model VAX,
or how many processors, or what PC your student had, so this comparison
might not be relevant.



> In fact, our VAX
> calculated the body of the loop only *once*
> and thus *immediately* announced that it had finished
> the whole test - the compiler on this student's
> PC, on the other hand, had not been clever enough
> for this type of optimization: hence the difference...

Precisely. And all the Big O notation is the world will not tell you that.
Only an experiment will. Now, perhaps in the simple case of a bare loop
doing the same calculation over and over again, you might be able to
predict ahead of time what optimisations the compiler will do. But for
more complex algorithms, forget it.

This is a clear case of experimentation leading to the discovery
of practical results which could not be predicted from Big O calculations.
I find it quite mind-boggling that you would use as if it was a triumph
of abstract theoretical calculation when it was nothing of the sort.


>   I think this is really a cautionary tale for
> experimentalists: don't *believe* in the decisiveness
> of the outcomes your experiments, but try to *understand*
> them instead (i.e. relate them to your theoretical grasp
> of the situation)...

Or, to put it another way: your student discovered something by running an
experimental test of his code that he would never have learnt in a million
years of analysis of his algorithm: the VAX compiler was very cleverly
optimized.

The fact that your student didn't understand the problem well enough to
craft a good test of it is neither here nor there.



-- 
Steven.



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct 10 11:29:14 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:29:14 -0500
Subject: Default argument to __init__
In-Reply-To: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <zdednZvzIrtFFdfeRVn-rQ@comcast.com>

This comes up on the list about once a week on this list.

See:
http://www.nexedi.org/sections/education/python/tips_and_tricks/python_and_mutable_n/view

-Larry Bates

netvaibhav at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All:
> 
> Here's a piece of Python code and it's output. The output that Python
> shows is not as per my expectation. Hope someone can explain to me this
> behaviour:
> 
> [code]
> class MyClass:
>         def __init__(self, myarr=[]):
>                 self.myarr = myarr
> 
> myobj1 = MyClass()
> myobj2 = MyClass()
> 
> myobj1.myarr += [1,2,3]
> 
> myobj2.myarr += [4,5,6]
> 
> print myobj1.myarr
> print myobj2.myarr
> [/code]
> 
> The output is:
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
> 
> Why do myobj1.myarr and myobj2.myarr point to the same list? The
> default value to __init__ for the myarr argument is [], so I expect
> that every time an object of MyClass is created, a new empty list is
> created and assigned to myarr, but it seems that the same empty list
> object is assigned to myarr on every invocation of MyClass.__init__
> 
> It this behaviour by design? If so, what is the reason, as the
> behaviour I expect seems pretty logical.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Vaibhav
> 


From what at yeahyou.com  Mon Oct 10 09:26:27 2005
From: what at yeahyou.com (david)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:26:27 GMT
Subject: >> Unlimited Free Music Downloads ! <<
Message-ID: <7_t2f.75723$lI5.53435@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>

ALL COOL MUSIC





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From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 15:16:17 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:16:17 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4n6ag.5uhq7a7xe1v4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86ach6y6ta.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
>> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
>> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
>> told that that's what's going on.
> In firms where marketing has lots of power, they may indeed well decide
> to pursue those "10 millions" by demanding an expenditure of effort
> that's totally out of proportion

What makes you think that the expenditure of effort is "totally out of
proportion"? In my experience, that isn't the case - at least if you
go into it planning on doing things that way. Retrofitting a site that
was built without any thought but "make it work in my favoriter
browser in my favorite configuration" can be a radically different
thing.

> Maybe that's part of the explanation for the
> outstanding success of some enterprises founded by engineers, led by
> engineers, and staffed overwhelmingly with engineers, competing with
> other firms where marketing wield power...?

You mean like google? Until recently, they're an outstanding example
of doing things right, and providing functionality that degrades
gracefully as the clients capabilities go down.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 05:33:30 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:33:30 -0700
Subject: cell and row
In-Reply-To: <djks42$5fp$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1d987df30510250150mb4f0f97y79d6e93c0c0d66ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<djks42$5fp$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1d987df30510250233x368c1bbfv914e76e7f79cbc26@mail.gmail.com>

In the follwoing code,
Why the result is "'defenestrate', 'window', 'defenestrate', " before
the original list instead of 'defenestrate', 'window', ?

>>> a = ['defenestrate', 'cat', 'window', 'defenestrate']
>>> for x in a[:]:
... 	if len(x) > 4: a.insert(0, x)
... 	
>>> a
['defenestrate', 'window', 'defenestrate', 'defenestrate', 'cat',
'window', 'defenestrate']

On 10/25/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> Shi Mu wrote:
>
> >I can not understand the use of "cell" and "row" in the code:
> >
> > # convert the matrix to a 1D list
> > matrix = [[13,2,3,4,5],[0,10,6,0,0],[7,0,0,0,9]]
> > items = [cell for row in matrix for cell in row]
> > print items
>
> working through the Python tutorial might be a good idea.  here's the section
> on list comprehensions:
>
> http://docs.python.org/tut/node7.html#SECTION007140000000000000000
>
> and here's the section on for loops:
>
> http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006200000000000000000
>
> briefly:
>
>    items = [cell for row in matrix for cell in row]
>
> or, slightly edited for clarity:
>
>    items = [(cell)
>        for row in matrix
>            for cell in row]
>
> is the same thing as:
>
>    items = []
>    for row in matrix:
>        for cell in row:
>            items.append(cell)
>
> except that it's a bit shorter, and a bit more efficient.
>
> </F>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From gry at ll.mit.edu  Tue Oct 11 14:42:32 2005
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (gry at ll.mit.edu)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:42:32 -0700
Subject: dictionnaries and lookup tables
In-Reply-To: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129056152.562848.251690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


m.barenco at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am considering using dictionnaries as lookup tables e.g.
>
> >>>D={0.5:3.9,1.5:4.2,6.5:3}
>
> and I would like to have a dictionnary method returning the key and
> item of the dictionnary whose key is smaller than the input of the
> method (or <=,>,>=) but maximal (resp. maximal,minimal,minimal) eg.:
>
> >>>D.smaller(3.0)
> (1.5,4.2)
> >>>D.smaller(11.0)
> (6.5,3)
> >>>D.smaller(-1.0)
> None (or some error message)
>
> Now, I know that dictionnaries are stored in a non-ordered fashion in
> python but they are so efficient in recovering values (at least wrt
> lists) that it suggests me that internally there is some ordering. I
> might be totally wrong because I don't know how the hashing is really
> done. Of course I would use such methods in much larger tables. So is
> this possible or should I stick to my own class with O(log2(N))
> recovery time?
...

I believe that to do this efficiently, you want some kind of tree, e.g.
B-tree, RB-tree, AVL-tree.  You could try the AVL tree from:
   ftp://squirl.nightmare.com/pub/python/python-ext/avl/avl-2.0.tar.gz



From saint.infidel at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:37:37 2005
From: saint.infidel at gmail.com (infidel)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:37:37 -0700
Subject: possible bug in cherrypy.lib.autoreload
In-Reply-To: <1129759757.331157.177020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129759757.331157.177020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129822657.743578.163470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Ok, so it turns out that the problem the cherrypy.lib.autoreload module
is having, is that kid imports elementtree and on my machine the
elementtree modules are inside a zip file (.egg).  So the "path" to the
elementtree __init__.py file is not a valid OS path because everything
after the .egg file is inside the file.

Is there a quick way of determining that a module was imported from a
zip file, or that a module's __file__ attribute is a valid path as far
as Python is concerned, even though it doesn't exist to the OS?



From fergdeff at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 11:00:27 2005
From: fergdeff at gmail.com (ferg)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:00:27 -0700
Subject: MoinMoin - Can't create new pages
In-Reply-To: <1130252059.474472.102670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130252059.474472.102670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130252427.220729.312180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I should have mentioned that the error message I keep getting is the ol
HTTP 404 - "The page cannot be found"



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct  8 00:26:41 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:26:41 -0400
Subject: Objects with different data views
References: <pan.2005.10.07.16.52.21.660639@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1128745619.cf80396cc7e4ebc9b4d5efa213ab0917@teranews>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> I'm not sure how to do this, or where to start looking for the right
> information, so any advice would be appreciated.
>
> I want to implement a class with two (or more) different ways of looking
> at its attributes.
>
> One example of this might be complex numbers, which can be written in
> Cartesian form (x+yi) or polar form (r cis theta).
>
> (Yes, I know Python already has complex numbers. That was just an example.)
>
> Another might be 3D vectors, which can be written in Cartesian form
> [x, y, z], polar form [r, theta, z] or spherical polar [r, theta, phi].
>
> It is important that there are no privileged attributes, e.g. in the
> above example, I can set any of x, y, z, r, theta or phi and all the
> others will automatically reflect the changes. A concrete, if simple,
> example will make it clear.
>
> Suppose I have a transformation (a,b) <-> (x,y) where:
>
> x = a+b
> y = a+2*b
>
> I create an instance spam, and set a and b:
>
> spam.a = 1
> spam.b = 2
>
> Now I should be able to read x and y:
>
> print spam.x, spam.y
> # prints 3 5
>
> If I set attribute y:
>
> spam.y = 0
>
> a and b automatically change to match:
>
> print spam.a, spam.b
> # prints 6, -3
>
>
> Anyone have any good ideas for how I should implement this?

As others have replied, properties is the way to go. There have been a few recipes in the Cookbook
that avoid cluttering the class namespace with temporary get/set/del methods, e.g.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/410698.

HTH,
George




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 06:54:32 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:54:32 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:19:29 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:33:13 GMT, Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com>
> wrote or quoted :
> 
>>WHat the hell has that got to do with HTML email?  Sending photos
>>is an example of what attachments are for.
> 
> Normally you send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.

No, normally YOU send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.
My grandma doesn't put captions in her photo album, and she doesn't need
captions on her photos in email.

> That is far more convenient for the technopeasant receiver than
> dealing with multiple attachments.

Only if your photos are so obscure and confusing that they need captions.

"Here's Johnny with the dog. Here is Johnny with the dog again. This one
is Johnny on his own. Here is the dog. Oh look, it is Johnny with the dog
again -- that's the dog on the left, in case it isn't clear. Just for a
change, this is Johnny wearing a hat. It is blue with a feather in it,
in case you couldn't tell from, oh I don't know, looking at the actual
picture."



-- 
Steven.



From spiralx at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 08:02:12 2005
From: spiralx at gmail.com (James)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:02:12 +0100
Subject: datetime and daylight savings problem
Message-ID: <7ee3dcd80510110502j5ef8be6co1c746fa98c4d4cfc@mail.gmail.com>

I need to import a bunch of data into our database for which there's a
single entry each day which occurs at the same time every day in local
time - so I need to convert this to UTC taking into account local
daylight savings. However daylight savings just don't seem to be
working at all...

Python 2.3.5 (#2, May  4 2005, 08:51:39)
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-12)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from pytz import timezone
>>> from datetime import datetime
>>> t=timezone("Europe/Paris")
>>> utc=timezone("UTC")
>>> d=datetime(2005,01,24,16,59,tzinfo=t)
>>> d
datetime.datetime(2005, 1, 24, 16, 59, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo
'Europe/Paris' WET0:00:00 STD>)
>>> d.astimezone(utc)
datetime.datetime(2005, 1, 24, 16, 59, tzinfo=<StaticTzInfo 'UTC'>)
>>> d2=datetime(2005,06,01,16,59,tzinfo=t)
>>> d2
datetime.datetime(2005, 6, 1, 16, 59, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Paris'
WET0:00:00 STD>)
>>> d2.astimezone(utc)
datetime.datetime(2005, 6, 1, 16, 59, tzinfo=<StaticTzInfo 'UTC'>)

One of these should be in DST, the other shouldn't, I'm not sure why.
Additional oddness here

>>> d.astimezone(utc).astimezone(t)
datetime.datetime(2005, 1, 24, 18, 59, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo
'Europe/Paris' CEST+2:00:00 DST>)
>>> d2.astimezone(utc).astimezone(t)
datetime.datetime(2005, 6, 1, 17, 59, tzinfo=<DstTzInfo 'Europe/Paris'
CET+1:00:00 STD>)

I'm not sure if it's just something I'm doing completely wrong here...

James


From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Tue Oct 25 03:04:23 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:04:23 GMT
Subject: pickle
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2505.1130223334.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2505.1130223334.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130223861.28336.6.camel@blackwidow>

On Mon, 2005-10-24 at 23:55 -0700, Shi Mu wrote:
> I got a sample code and tested it but really can not understand the
> use of pickle and dump:
> 
> >>> import pickle
> >>> f = open("try.txt", "w")
> >>> pickle.dump(3.14, f)
> >>> pickle.dump([1,2,3,4], f)
> >>> f.close()

The pickle module "serializes" python objects.  You can "dump" a python
object that can later be loaded:

>>> x = complex(2,3.5)
>>> f = open("cnumber.pickle", "w")
>>> import pickle
>>> pickle.dump(x, f)
>>> f.close()
>>> y = pickle.load(file("cnumber.pickle", "r"))
>>> y
(2+3.5j)




From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 14:28:39 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:28:39 -0700
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
In-Reply-To: <q5psl1dgpmjrui33rn193a4h7pilkcf4i0@4ax.com>
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
	<1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<q5psl1dgpmjrui33rn193a4h7pilkcf4i0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130264919.181056.87730@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have setup multiple threads and a queue...which is working pretty
good.  But I have one other issue...I have a new thread (since it is
different issue) here:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/ec81d8982d1a0130

if you get chance, would you mind checking that out.

Thanks!



From hrvoje at despammed.com  Tue Oct  4 17:21:08 2005
From: hrvoje at despammed.com (Hrvoje Blazevic)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:21:08 +0200
Subject: Idle
In-Reply-To: <08C0f.517$ht7.198@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <dhuo72$8lo$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
	<08C0f.517$ht7.198@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <dhurjr$fsg$1@ss405.t-com.hr>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I remember having that when the wrong version of TCL/TK was installed on my
> system.
> 

And what is the right version? I have versions that came with their 
respective distros (8.4.9 in case of Suse)

-- Hrvoje


From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 26 08:38:41 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:38:41 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux
References: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <64rko3la.fsf@python.net>

"Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> writes:

> [bonono at gmail.com]
>> But command line in Windows is in no way in the same
>> league as *nix shell. Use <tab> for command completion and up/down
>> arrow or <ctrl-R> to search for history.
>
> [darren kirby]
>> Try ctrl-r in bash, then type your first few letters...
>
> Thanks to both of you. But that much I already knew. It's not
> that I have *no* knowledge about readline: I did at least
> read the manuals when I got stuck! But as far as I can tell
> from my experience and from the docs -- and I'm not near a 
> Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall line x 
> in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2 etc. 
> Or can you?

I don't know.  When I discovered this I uninstalled the (windows)
readline module from my Python installation.

> (Sorry guys; I realise this is more stuff for comp.os.linux or
> comp.commandlineshells.bash or whatever it's called. But if
> someone *did* know the answer, I'd be really happy!)

;-)

Thomas


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 12 19:50:27 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:50:27 -0400
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

dcrespo wrote:
> then, what you proppose?

I'll assume that question was for me, in response to my comment that one 
should never store passwords in the clear.

Do you know how any other system manages to do this?  Linux, for example 
(assuming a properly configured system)?  The passwords aren't stored: 
hashes of the passwords are stored (with additional things thrown in to 
prevent certain kinds of attacks even if someone nabs the password 
(/etc/shadow) file).  If you store the password or even encrypt it (i.e. 
something that can be reversed if someone knows the key), it's a risk.

If you don't know about this stuff yet, I strongly suggest lots of 
additional research and reading prior to implementing a serious system. 
  There are _many_ web pages to be found which discuss this sort of 
thing, probably including lots of tutorials for people starting on the 
ground floor.

I bet Paul R or others more experienced in this area can point us to 
some excellent ones, but a little googling with "passwords store clear 
text" or "encrypted passwords" would get you started.  I expect that 
would quickly lead to the term "hashing", since you really don't want to 
just encrypt the password: that can easily be reversed if anyone has the 
key, and certainly an administrator could access the key used by some 
random application that encrypts its passwords.  The first few hits for 
that last search seem to include pages that introduce the concept of 
"salt", one of the "additional things" I mentioned above.

I'm not going to try to give a tutorial: I'm not nearly expert enough to 
be trusted for that. :-)  I just wanted to warn against one of the most 
basic and easily avoidable problems.

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 15 07:16:05 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:16:05 +0200
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129373241.881149.245380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diqodo$h4j$1@sea.gmane.org>

"SPE - Stani's Python Editor" wrote:

> Use re.split, as this is the fastest and cleanest way.
> However, iff you have to split a lot of strings, the best is:
>
> import re
> delimiters = re.compile('_| ')
>
> def split(x):
>   return delimiters.split(x)

or, shorter:

    import re
    split = re.compile('_| ').split

to quickly build a splitter for an arbitrary set of separator characters, use

    separators = "_ :+"

    split = re.compile("[" + re.escape(separators) + "]").split

to deal with arbitrary separators, you need to be a little bit more careful
when you prepare the pattern:

    separators = sep1, sep2, sep3, sep4, ...

    pattern = "|".join(re.escape(p) for p in reversed(sorted(separators)))
    split = re.compile(pattern).split

</F>





From robin at reportlab.com  Tue Oct 18 05:27:51 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:27:51 +0100
Subject: override a property
In-Reply-To: <4354b324$0$21023$636a55ce@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2179.1129571751.509.python-list@python.org>	<43542065$0$21621$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<4354ABB3.1030203@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<4354b324$0$21023$636a55ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4354C017.1010308@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

bruno modulix wrote:
.....
> 
> Could you elaborate ? Or at least give an exemple ?
.....
in answer to Bengt & Bruno here is what I'm sort of playing with. Alex suggests 
class change as an answer, but that looks really clunky to me. I'm not sure what 
Alex means by

> A better design might be to use, instead of the builtin
> type 'property', a different custom descriptor type that is specifically
> designed for your purpose -- e.g., one with a method that instances can
> call to add or remove themselves from the set of "instances overriding
> this ``property''" and a weak-key dictionary (from the weakref module)
> mapping such instances to get/set (or get/set/del, if you need to
> specialize "attribute deletion" too) tuples of callables.

I see it's clear how to modify the behaviour of the descriptor instance, but is 
he saying I need to mess with the descriptor magic methods so they know what 
applies to each instance?


## my silly example
class ObserverProperty(property):
     def __init__(self,name,observers=None,validator=None):
         self._name = name
         self._observers = observers or []
         self._validator = validator or (lambda x: x)
         self._pName = '_' + name
         property.__init__(self,
                 fset=lambda inst, value: self.__notify_fset(inst,value),
                 )

     def __notify_fset(self,inst,value):
         value = self._validator(value)
         for obs in self._observers:
             obs(inst,self._pName,value)
         inst.__dict__[self._pName] = value

     def add(self,obs):
         self._observers.append(obs)

def obs0(inst,pName,value):
     print 'obs0', inst, pName, value

def obs1(inst,pName,value):
     print 'obs1', inst, pName, value

class A(object):
     x = ObserverProperty('x')

a=A()
A.x.add(obs0)

a.x = 3

b = A()
b.x = 4

#I wish I could get b to use obs1 instead of obs0
#without doing the following
class B(A):
     x = ObserverProperty('x',observers=[obs1])

b.__class__ = B

b.x = 7


-- 
Robin Becker



From snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk  Sun Oct 16 14:31:06 2005
From: snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk (Stephen Kellett)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:31:06 +0100
Subject: Need advice on finding memory leak
References: <1129485522.439259.211480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <q1Jk9VEqxpUDFwgu@objmedia.demon.co.uk>

In message <1129485522.439259.211480 at o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
mark.engelberg at gmail.com writes
>I am having trouble identifying the source of a memory leak in a
>Windows Python program. The basic gist is as follows:

Perhaps Python Memory Validator can help you?

        http://www.softwareverify.com/beta.php

Stephen
-- 
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting


From ksnunn at westham98.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Oct 21 09:25:39 2005
From: ksnunn at westham98.freeserve.co.uk (kevin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:25:39 +0100
Subject: wanna stop by my homemade glory hole?
Message-ID: <000501c5d642$effdcb20$f5714d51@your1p37d9kihs>

hi there where are u plz 
-------------- next part --------------
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 18 05:53:51 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:51 +0200
Subject: bug in os.system?
References: <1129617198.528491.125830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj2gnd$51h$1@sea.gmane.org>

nicksjacobson at yahoo.com wrote:

> The following code fails (pythonbugtest.exe takes one parameter, a
> string):
>
> import os
> result = os.system('"pythonbugtest.exe" "test"')
> assert(result == 0)
>
> The error message is:
>
> 'pythonbugtest.exe" "test' is not recognized as an internal or external
> command, operable program or batch file.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Nick\!My Programs\Python\bugtest\python1.py", line 8, in ?
>    assert(result == 0)
> AssertionError
>
> If I remove the quote marks around "pythonbugtest.exe" or "test", it
> works fine.  But sometimes I need those quote marks, if e.g. there are
> spaces in filenames.
>
> I think this is a bug?

yup, but unfortunately, it's a bug at the windows level, not in Python.  from what
I can tell, the problem is that cmd.exe cannot parse the command string it's given
by the C-level system() call.

possible workarounds:

1. get rid of the quotes around the command name:

    result = os.system('pythonbugtest.exe "test"')

2. add an extra quote (!) before the quoted command name:

    result = os.system('""pythonbugtest.exe" "test"')

3. use os.spawn or the subprocess module instead.

</F> 





From howardrh at westerncom.net  Mon Oct 10 20:48:39 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 17:48:39 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128794785.152776.116370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051008233140.77ad2c2e@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128941251.054780.324900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051010203829.55c3e4b0@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1128991719.628161.54290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

In your simulator how much do you want Python to do?  I ask this
because your subject title implies you want to write your simulation
code in Python but a  simulator written entirely in Python would be
very slow.  Python is an interpreted language and pure Python code is
not suitable for simulating big  continuous systems. Hence to me it
appears you have two distinct proplems. One is developing a front end,
a user interface, that is easy to use. The other is either finding or
writing a good code compiler that wlll produce fast simulation code or
writing an interface to existing optimize simulation code.  Although
most likely not suitable for your applicaion but a good example of this
type of program is Mathematica. It is written in two parts a user
interface and a kernel that does all of the high power math.

Howard


Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> > I am aware of some shortcomings and design flaws of Simulink,
> > especially in the code generation area. I am interested by
> > your paper nonetheless, please send me copy.
>
> Ok no problem. Let me just a few days to strip any irrelevant data on
> it...
>
> > However, Simulink is used by many people on a day-to-day basis
> > in the context of big, industrial projects. The claim that it
> > is "next to unusable" is, in my book, an overstatement ...
>
> Well the exact sentence is "next to unusable for our kind of projects".
> You'll see the details on the paper, but I'm not joking.
> For instance, under Simulink, our model is so big (well not so, but too
> big for Simulink obviously), that you may have a loss of up to 40x in
> performance compared to the model in C (how to optimize the Simulink
> model is a whole other subject in itself). So to make it usable, we have
> to use automatic code generation wich bring a whole new set of
> problems... BUT our work is *very* specific, and I'm not talking about
> Simulink in general. It may be perfect suited for others, it's just that
> for us it's far from perfect...
>
> > Scicos is not perfect either but you can hardly say that is
> > is a simple clone of Simulink. No time and space to go into
> > the details ...
>
> I wasn't in charge of evaluating Scilab/Scicos, so I can only talk about
> the conclusion : main motives to switch to Scilab/Scicos would be
> because it's free, that's all. Report said that next to almost
> everything Scilab/Scicos does, Matlab/Simulink can do, and more often
> than not, do it much better.
> So if you have a different report, I would be happy to read and transmit
> it...
>
> > Obviously, the python community is very dynamic, but how much
> > support will you get in the very specific topic of continuous
> > time systems simulation ?
>
> Well some people already offered me their help. But I believe
> that someone _has_ to begin alone some day...
> Otherwise people who work on continuous system simulation would never be
> interested in Python.
>
> That's the beauty of open source : do what you can, but do it ! and hope
> that someone else will come one day and use your work to build upon it.
> Step by step you will have something usable (in theory).
>
> > IMHO, an hybrid approach, such as the development of bridge
> > to include Python components into Simulink/Scicos/Ptolemy/
> > Modelica/pick_your_favorite_simulator may grant you more
> > interest from the simulation community.
>
> I already know some bridges like pymat or mlabwrap and I agree that a
> way to include Python to Matlab/Simulink would be a great step.
> But :
>
> 1) I think that it's Mathworks job to do it, and if they don't want to
> do it, we'll never have a very good integration.
>
> 2) For our kind of projects and our kind of developers (mainly
> non-IT engineers), I'm very reluctant to introduce too many different
> technologies in a project. If we decided to go for Python, fine, let's
> do the entire thing in Python/C. If we decided to go for Simulink, fine,
> let's do the whole thing in Simulink/Matlab/C. Matlab, for algorithms,
> can do almost the same things than Python and sometimes much better, so
> if you have already Simulink (and so have the license) why go for Python
> and struggle to have a good integration ?
>
> Regards,
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > SB
> >
> >
> >
> > Nicolas Pernetty wrote:
> > > Simulink is well fitted for small simulators, but when you run into
> > > big projects, I find many shortcomings appears which made the whole
> > > thing next to unusable for our kind of projects.
> > > That's why I'm interested in Python by the way, it is not a simple
> > > clone like Scilab/Scicos. It is a real language which bring its own
> > > advantages, and its own shortcomings, which I find well suited for
> > > our activity.
> > >
> > > If you want, I can send you a paper I wrote last year, detailing all
> > > Simulink shortcomings. I doubt that this mailing list is interested
> > > in such things...(and it's in French...).
> > > Concerning Scilab/Scicos, I'm not really interested in a technology
> > > primarily developed (INRIA and ENSPC) and used by France. Python and
> > > all its libraries and communities are so much more dynamic !
> > > And also I've heard that Scilab was developed in Fortran in a way
> > > which make it rigid and that the sources are poorly documented, not
> > > a good sign for an open source software (and Scilab isn't 'Free' for
> > > the FSF).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >
> > > On 8 Oct 2005 11:06:25 -0700, "S?bastien Boisg?rault"
> > > <Sebastien.Boisgerault at gmail.com> wrote :
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Simulink is a framework widely used by the control engineers ...
> > > > It is not *perfect* but the ODEs piece is probably the best
> > > > part of the simulator. Why were you not convinced ?
> > > >
> > > > You may also have a look at Scicos and Ptolemy II. These
> > > > simulators are open-source ... but not based on Python.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > SB
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nicolas Pernetty a ?crit :
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Phil,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I have considered Octave. In fact I'm already using Matlab
> > > > > and decided to 'reject' it for Python + Numeric/numarray + SciPy
> > > > > because I think you could do more in Python and in more simple
> > > > > ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > Problem is that neither Octave, Matlab and Python offer today a
> > > > > framework to build continuous system simulator (in fact Matlab
> > > > > with Simulink and SimMechanics, do propose, but I was not
> > > > > convinced at all).
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7 Oct 2005 11:00:54 -0700, phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com
> > > > > wrote :
> > > > >
> > > > > > Nicholas,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Have you looked at Octave? It is not Python, but I believe it
> > > > > > can talk to Python.
> > > > > > Octave is comparable to Matlab for many things, including
> > > > > > having ODE solvers. I have successfully used it to model and
> > > > > > simulate simple systems. Complex system would be easy to model
> > > > > > as well, provided that you model your dynamic elements with
> > > > > > (systems of) differential equations.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 18:28:25 2005
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 15:28:25 -0700
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net><di0j8t$29ah$1@news.tsua.net>
	<ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <1128551304.960549.235420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Thomas Heller wrote:

> I get the behaviour that I want when I add a 'NULL' handler in the
> library, but is this really how logging is intended to be used?
>

The reason for the one-off message is that without it, a
misconfiguration or a failure to configure any handlers is notified to
a user (who is possibly not used to the logging package). I'm not sure
which is more annoying - a one-off message which occurs when no
handlers are configured and yet events are logged, or complete silence
from logging when something is misconfigured, and not giving any
feedback on what's wrong? (It's a rhetorical question - the answer is
of course quite subjective).

Certainly, I could change things so that e.g. the error is suppressed
when logging.raiseExceptions is set to 0 (typically for production
use).

Regards,

Vinay Sajip



From nil at dev.nul  Sun Oct 16 14:40:14 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:40:14 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.2137.1129475887.509.python-list@python.org>
	<diu3di$gd9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.16.18.52.56.797555@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <diu6qd$ic2$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.16.18.52.56.797555 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:42:11 +0200, Christian Stapfer wrote:
>
>> Pauli's prediction of
>> the existence of the neutrino is another. It took
>> experimentalists a great deal of time and patience
>> (about 20 years, I am told) until they could finally
>> muster something amounting to "experimental proof"
>> of Pauli's conjecture.
>
> Pauli's conjecture was the result of experimental evidence that was
> completely inexplicable according to the theory of the day:

So was it mere experiment or was it the relation
between experiment and theory that provided
the spur for creative advancement? My position
is the latter. Mere experiment does not tell you
anything at all. Only experiment on the background
of suitable theory does that.

> energy and
> spin was disappearing from certain nuclear reactions. This was an
> experimental result that needed to be explained, and Pauli's solution was
> to invent an invisible particle that carried that energy and spin away.

Pauli's creativity lay in proposing *this*
particular solution to the puzzle. And, surely,
if it had not been for Pauli's characterization
of that hypothetical particle, experimentalists
like Cowan and Reines would not have *anything*
to aim for in the first place.

But I'm not going to argue Pauli's case any futher
in this NG, because this is, in the end,
not a physics NG...

> (When I put it like that, it sounds stupid, but in fact it was an elegant
> and powerful answer to the problem.)
>
> The neutrino wasn't something that Pauli invented from theoretical first
> principles. It came out of hard experimental results.
>
> Physics of the last half century is littered with the half-forgotten
> corpses of theoretical particles that never eventuated: gravitinos,
> photinos, tachyons, rishons, flavons, hypercolor pre-quarks, axions,
> squarks, shadow matter, white holes, and so on ad nauseum.
>
> Neutrinos and quarks are exceptional in that experimental predictions of
> their existence were correct, and I maintain that is because (unlike all
> of the above) they were postulated to explain solid experimental results,
> not just to satisfy some theoretical itch.
>
> So yet again, your triumph of theory is actually a victory for experiment.

Well, I might tell now the story of Maxwell,
sitting in his garden - and deducing, from
his equations (which, admittedly, were inspired
by earlier experimental work by Faraday),
something really quite shockingly *new*:
the existence of electromagnetic waves.

Regards,
Christian
--
?From a long view of the history of mankind -
 seen from, say, ten thousand years from now
 - there can be little doubt that the most
 significant event of the nineteenth century
 will be judged as Maxwell's discovery of the
 laws of electrodynamics. The American Civil
 War will pale into provincial insignificance
 in comparison with this important scientific
 event of the same decade.?
- Richard P. Feynman: "The Feynman Lectures"




From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct 16 10:29:02 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:29:02 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <IoGIwE.L97@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote or quoted:

> I'm aware of talk that Dell is selling Linux PCs at Walmart for less than
> the same hardware plus Windows. Talk is cheap -- I'm not aware of anyone
> who has actually seen these Linux PCs. I'd love to know either way.

See:

``Dell's Open PC Costs More Than Windows Box''

 - http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/08/034211&tid=190&tid=137
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Thu Oct 20 18:41:55 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:41:55 GMT
Subject: http/urlib pos/get question (newbie)
Message-ID: <T2V5f.3000$dO2.977@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

Hi,
(I am _very_ new to web programming)

I am writing a client module (browser plugin) and server module (Python CGI)
that need to exchange information.

I want the transaction to be intiated when the client accesses the link.

I need data  to go back and forth between the client and the server (cgi
script) with no impact on what the browser shows.

In the end (when I get the above to work), the server will say OK and the
actual page will appear or NOK and an ERROR page will appear.


I'm pretty clear (I think) as to what to do on the javascript (client) side
(XMLHttp) but am not certain if my cgi script must "urlib.open" its own
link in order to open the pipe on its side (there'll be some HTML GET/POST
tag I assume but where is the pipe/socket ?)

Thanks,

Philippe




From onurb at xiludom.gro  Fri Oct 21 08:07:17 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:07:17 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Amol Vaidya wrote:
> "Casey Hawthorne" <caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca> wrote in message 
> news:02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug at 4ax.com...
> 
>>What languages do you know already?
>>
>>What computer science concepts do you know?
>>
>>What computer programming concepts do you know?
>>
>>
>>Have you heard of Scheme?
>>
>>
>>Ruby is a bit Perl like -- so if you like Perl, chances are you might
>>like Ruby.

Ruby is a whole lot Smalltalk-like -- so if you like Smalltalk... !-)

>>Python is more like Java.

<troll>
Err... Python is more like what Java would have been if Java was a smart
 dynamic hi-level object oriented language !-)
</troll>

>>I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
>>about
>>10,000 lines in C++
>>it is about
>>5,000 lines in Java
>>and it is about
>>3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)

For a whole lot of common tasks (like file IO etc), the Java/Python loc
ratio is between 5/1 and 10/1. Also, not having the dumbest type system
in the world, Python is naturally much more generic than Java, which
saves a lot of boilerplate code. I think that the real numbers would be
much like 5000 lines in Java -> 1000 lines in Python - and probably 5000
-> 500 in some cases.

> 
> I've done a lot of studying on my own, and taken the classes that my 
> high-school offers. I feel that I have a fairly good understanding of Java, 
> and basic OO concepts due to that. 

<IMHO>
Err... I wouldn't start another HolyWar, but Java is not that Object
Oriented. 'Class-based' would be more appropriate. Python, while not
being class-based (ie: it doesn't impose that all code goes into a
'class' statement), is much more an OO language than Java, since in
Python *everything* is an object - even functions, classes and modules.
This makes a *big* difference.

So yes, you may have learned some basic 00 concepts with Java (classes,
instances, inheritence and polymorphism), but with Python and/or Ruby,
you will probably realize that there's much more in the OO paradigm than
all the Java world can dream of.
</IMHO>

> 
> Well, I'm not sure what you mean by programming concepts. I'm familiar with 
> OO through Java, and procedural programming through C. I'd be more detailed, 
> but I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. Sorry.

patterns, metaclasses, aspects, closures, anonymous functions,
higher-order functions, multiple dispatch, properties (computed
attributes), generators, list expressions... does that ring a bell ?

> I have no idea what Scheme is, but I'll cettainly look it up as soon as I'm 
> done writing this.

Scheme is a Lisp dialect - Lisp being one of the oldest programming
languages, and one of the most modern programming languages. Whatever
the latest overhyped revolutionary new silver bullet buzzword stuff, you
can bet your ass Lisp already had it many years ago.

Now Lisp never managed to make it to the mainstream... It's a language
(well, a familly of languages should I say) that is worth learning, but
probably not until you've become familiar with some Python features and
idioms.

Another language that failed to make it to the mainstream but is worth
giving a try is Smalltalk - the father of OOPLs (Simula being the
GrandFather). BTW, most of Ruby's feature have been happily stolen from
Smalltalk !-)

> I've never given Perl a shot. It was another language I considered learning, 
> but my father's friend told me to go with Python or Ruby.

+1



-- 
bruno desthuilliers
ruby -e "print 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@').collect{|p|
p.split('.').collect{|w| w.reverse}.join('.')}.join('@')"
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From JHoover at fbi.gov  Fri Oct 28 22:43:10 2005
From: JHoover at fbi.gov (Gordon Airporte)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:43:10 -0400
Subject: Generic utility class for passing data
Message-ID: <1u-dnSkSzdnsfP_enZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>

I'm wondering if this is might be bad practice. Sometimes when I need to 
pass around several pieces of datum I will put them in a tuple, then 
when I need to use them in a receiving function I get them out with 
subscripts. The problem is that the subscript number is completely 
meaningless and I have to remember the order I used.
As an alternative I was considering using a dummy class like this:

class Dummy:
	pass

Then when I need to pass some related data, Python lets me do this:

prefill = Dummy()
prefill.foreground = 'blue'  #"foreground" is made up on the fly
prefill.background = 'red'
prefill.pattern = mypattern
return prefill

Now I can access the data later using meaningful names.
Is this going to cause problems somehow? Should I rather go to the 
trouble of creating more substantial individual classes for every 
grouping of data I might need to pass (with __init__'s and default 
values and so on)? Should I just stick with subscripted groupings 
because of the overhead?


From thegreat_lover2003 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 02:14:32 2005
From: thegreat_lover2003 at yahoo.com (thegreat_lover2003 at yahoo.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 23:14:32 -0700
Subject: www.liveboard.8my.com
Message-ID: <1129616072.283406.130990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello Friend

You are invited to join www.liveboard.8my.com

There you can discuss / post on various topics like Poems, Love,
Romance, Flirting, Quotes, Shayris, Movies, Music, Personal Problem
Discussions, Computers & Internet (Hacking at security end),
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Register at www.liveboard.8my.com which is absolutely free.

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Note: This is not SPAM



From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 00:16:45 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:16:45 -0400
Subject: piping out binaries properly
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Andy Leszczynski <leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam> writes:
> I have got following program:
>
> import sys
> import binascii
> from string import *
> sys.stdout.write(binascii.unhexlify("41410A4141"))
>
>
> when I run under Unix I got:
>
> $ python u.py > u.bin
> $ od -t x1 u.bin
> 0000000 41 41 0a 41 41
>
> and under Windows/Cygwin following:
>
> $ python u.py > u.bin
> $ od -t x1 u.bin
> 0000000 41 41 0d 0a 41 41
> 0000006
>
> The question is how can I pipe out binary content properly and platform
> independently?

It's not normal to write binary content to stdout - you normally write
it to a file. Open the file with open(name, 'wb') to write binaries.

There doesn't appear to be any way to retroactively change the mode on
a file. Which is probably a good thing.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 07:50:29 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 04:50:29 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1h4vl5j.1sg46l1irzgfmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86y84k95c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4vl5j.1sg46l1irzgfmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130154629.382286.33090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> ... remember Pascal's "Lettres Provinciales",
> and the famous apology about "I am sorry that this letter is so long,
> but I did not have the time to write a shorter one"!-)

This observation applies to code too. I usually spend most of my time
in making short programs
that would have been long. This means:

cutting off non-essential features (and you can discover that a feature
is non essential only after having implemented it)

and/or

rethinking the problem to a superior level of abstraction (only
possible after you have implented
the lower level of abstraction).

         Michele Simionato



From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 17:40:20 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 21:40:20 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<khz4f.25000$pJ3.1035408@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F1E46CEDEE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DIL4f.25340$f21.601178@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2A997EF4CDcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>> Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>But that's not the point; the point is that they have the choice. 
>>>If MS had it its way, they wouldn't have that choice.
>> 
>> 
>> I doubt that. But even if you're right, do you really think that MS
>> is the only evil company on earth working like this? Do you really
>> think that companies like Disney, Sony, Intel, AMD, Apple, etc work
>> any different?
> 
> No, I do not think that MS is the only company that uses shady
> tactics. Also I didn't use the word 'evil', since I think it is too
> strong for what even MS does. But the fact is that MS is convicted for
> abusing its monopoly position.

If just one got convicted it means that some got away with it, and still
am. 

>>>Thousands and thousands of website work perfectly in all of the
>>>aforementioned websites right now.
>> 
>> Maybe you define perfectly different then me, but have a look at the 
>> Acid tests for example. Even between minor versions of for example 
>> Firefox, or Opera there are differences in rendering. I won't call
>> that perfectly, but maybe because I am a programmer.
> 
> Differences in rendering are perfectly acceptable on the World Wide
> Web. 

Not the differences I am talking about. There is ambiguity in for
example the CSS working drafts (or recommendations, too lazy to check
their current state). Maybe check out what the acid test is (actually
there are two IIRC). Also, wonder why if the differences I am talking
about are "perfectly acceptable" why some are fixed between different
versions (e.g. Opera). 

>> Others just pick Intel, because it's Intel. The same is happening for
>> MS. People just buy MS, they don't care that it's cheaper (or maybe 
>> "cheaper") to install Linux + OpenOffice (for example). MS, so it's 
>> good.
> 
> Popularity is not the same as quality.

Did I state such a thing? Moreover, quality doesn't (in general) sell in
this world. If you think so, wake up. Or do you really consider the
Linux desktop (any of them) quality? 

The fact is that a company has no time to work on quality. If they do,
the competition is selling what they hope to release in 2015. 

> I still fail to see your point. The original issue was the browser
> wars. Tim Roberts wondered why Microsoft went through the efforst of
> dominating the browser market, even if they don't make any money on
> IE. David Schwartz gave the answer: MS did it to prevent the OS from
> becoming a commodity, since that would allow users to freely choose
> their own OS.

*the* answer? LOL. I doubt it, since David's *the answer* isn't
happening. As I asked in another reply: can you name several companies
MS acquired to justify their fears of a major paradigm shift towards
notworking computing? 

> You seem to be saying that that is not their intention, since users
> will always prefer Windows as their OS anyhow. Well I don't think so,
> but just maybe you're right. But I'm pretty sure MS didn't want to
> take the chance, and did what it did for the reason David gave.

Again, I doubt it. MS just wants that every user who doesn't care if
there are better products just knows one and one name only: Microsoft. 

So: Internet = Microsoft, Music = Microsoft, Videos = Microsoft,
Blogging = Microsoft. Multimedia = Microsoft. Your keyboard = Microsoft,
your mouse = Microsoft. Your computer has a sticker on it: Designed for
Microsoft Windows. 

Microsoft is (creating) a meme.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From OurLab at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 18:12:31 2005
From: OurLab at gmail.com (Alex)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 15:12:31 -0800
Subject: Pickling and unpickling inherited attributes
Message-ID: <1130713951.953157.270130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a serious problem and I hope there is some solution. It is
easier to illustrate with a simple code:

>>> class Parent(object):
	__slots__=['A', 'B']
	def __init__(self, a, b):
		self.A=a; self.B=b
	def __getstate__(self):
		return self.A, self.B
	def __setstate__(self, tup):
		self.A, self.B=tup


>>> class Child(Parent):
	__slots__=['C',]
	def __init__(self, c):
		self.C=c
	def __getstate__(self):
		return self.C,
	def __setstate__(self, tup):
		self.C, =tup


>>> obj=Child(1)
>>> obj.A=2
>>> obj.B=3
>>> obj.A
2
>>> obj.B
3
>>> obj.C
1
>>> objct.Z=4

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#60>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    objct.Z=4
AttributeError: 'Child' object has no attribute 'Z'

So far so good.. Object obj inherited attributes (A and B) from the
parent class and refuses to take any new ones. But look what happens
when I try to pickle and unpickle it:

>>> import cPickle
>>> File=open('test', 'w')
>>> cPickle.dump(obj, File)
>>> File.close()
>>>
>>> file1=open('test', 'r')
>>> objct=cPickle.load(file1)
>>> file1.close()
>>> objct.A

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#55>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    objct.A
AttributeError: A
>>> objct.C
1

Its own attribute (C) value is restored but the value of an inherited
attribute (A) is not. I tried pickling protocol 2, and module pickle
instead of cPickle, all with the same result.

What can be done?! Or maybe nothing can be done?

I would greatly appreciate an advice. A lot of code is written, but now
we have a need for pickling and unpickling objects and discovered this
problem.



From nephish at xit.net  Fri Oct 21 13:44:45 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 10:44:45 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

the time is DateTime.DateTime object from a mySQLdb query.
the value is a number anywhere between 0 and 15.
the datetime is formatted like 2005-10-20 08:40:34

i could strip it and make a timestamp out of it. but reading the
number of seconds since january of 1970 doesn't make a neat chart.

any suggestions?

oh, and can you output from Gnuplot to a png or jpeg or something like
that.
the Gnuplot documentation says that it can make a bitmap png but i dont
know how to do that with the python wrapper. the docs for this are a
little cryptic.
still a newbie here. if you know a good tutorial on this, i would
really appreciate the link.

thanks for your time, and brain



From mystilleef at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 01:58:08 2005
From: mystilleef at gmail.com (mystilleef at gmail.com)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 22:58:08 -0700
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
Message-ID: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

A user of my application points me to a behavior in gVim,
the text editor, that I would like to implement in my
application.

When gVim is launched from a shell terminal, it completely
frees the terminal. You can continue to use the terminal for
whatever purpose you wish, including closing and exiting it,
without any effect on the running gVim instance.

How do I implement this in my application written in python?
I would like to believe it does not involve me forking my
application in a new process. Maybe there is signal I can
send to the operating system to achieve this, right?

Your help is appreciated.

Thanks



From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Oct 18 12:45:24 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:45:24 +0200
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <435526A4.6080607@free.fr>

Mike Meyer a ?crit :
> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> 
>>Maybe that's the key difference between the mindset of a
>>mathematician and that of an engineer -- I consider reaching over
>>95% of visitors to be _quite good indeed_,
> 
> 
> Oh? So you'd consider an SMTP/IMAP/POP/DNS/NFS/etc server that
> rejected 5% of the systems connecting to be _quite good indeed_? I
> think I'm glad that the internet wasn't built by people who agreed
> with that.
> 
> If you know what you're doing, you can have the best of both worlds
> for a lot of web applications. Yes, it won't be as rich or functional
> for the five percent who worry about security (or whatever), but it'll
> still work. And yes, you can't do it for every application. For those,
> anyone vaguely competent will add a warning.
> 
> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
> told that that's what's going on.
> 
>       <mike

Last time I checked, it was only 60% of the users with Javascript 
enabled. Not sure about the current ratio but with the various locked 
down IE installs it doesn't surprise me too much.


From martin.witte at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:37:09 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:37:09 -0700
Subject: __getattr__, __setattr__
In-Reply-To: <k6g88btb.fsf@python.net>
References: <k6g88btb.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <1129822629.250883.78570@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

for new style classes  __getattribute__ is defined, see eg.
http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html



From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 19:49:40 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:49:40 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>
	<pjhhk1p0lqtduekojm7er9i6g84fjef12n@4ax.com>
	<86zmpjkml4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<v34rk19j2ofq2bavd882m01eiu26s52pj3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <864q7mwb1n.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:32:07 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>>Formatted spam can include pictures of words. That's a common spam
>>tactic - send a multipart/alternative with a text part that look like
>>a letter from aunt jane - and mention that you're sending a
>>picture. The picture part is basically a jpeg of a flyer for the spam
>>companies product.
> Such a jpg would have a lot more sharp edges than a usual photo. Also
> you tend to have areas of just two colours. Some edge detecting
> software might have a go at it.

It's probably possible. No one has done it yet.

> However, my rule of thumb is I would not accept photos from the
> general public, only from a subset of my correspondendents.  That
> makes a photo a strong spam indicator.

But you also said (in <3g3rk1lv2dhcerqcn3hambu6p4l6mn70gq at 4ax.com>):

> Censoring content and style is none of our business.

Spam is all about censoring content. But you're proposing censoring
style to deal with pictures of words.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 08:57:42 2005
From: michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk (Michael Sparks)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:57:42 +0100
Subject: ANN: Kamaelia 0.3.0 released!
Message-ID: <diggij$efd$2@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

Kamaelia 0.3.0 has been released!

Introduction
============

Kamaelia is a networking/communications infrastructure for innovative
multimedia systems. Kamaelia uses a component architecture designed to
simplify creation and testing of new protocols and large scale media
delivery systems. A subset of the system has been tested on series 60
phones.

General feedback is welcome either directly, mailing lists or via IRC
(#kamaelia, freenode). People are also more than welcome to use the
system and suggest improvements not directly related to our specific
goals, because we recognise the system can be used in more areas, not
just networked multimedia. A diversity of systems built improves the
system (for all users of course!) as a whole.


What's New & Changed?
=====================

*NOTE* Kamaelia 0.3.0 requires Axon-1.1.2 to run for some newer
components
      (which has also just been released).

Full release notes and change log:
    * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Kamaelia-0.3.0-ReleaseNotes.html

New Examples - 7 new examples including:
    * Simple reliable multicast based streamer using Ogg Vorbis.
    * Dirac Player
    * Dirac encode & playback.
    * Simple bouncing images game. Designed for very small children who
      are amused by things take beep and react when you press left/right
      mouse buttons.
    * Simple example showing how to use the ticker (First developed for
      showing subtitles).
    * Demonstration system showing how to use the new software chassis
      facility in the context of multiple chassis. 

New Tools, Notable Additions

    * Visual tool for building Kamaelia pipelines
    * Tk Support
    * Video encode, decode and playback. (dirac)

New Packages & Subsystems

These names should provide you with a flavour of the new subsystems that
have been added:

    * Kamaelia.Codec
    * Kamaelia.Chassis
    * Kamaelia.File
    * Kamaelia.UI.Tk
    * Kamaelia.Internet.Simulate

Other Highlights

    * Software chassis (software backplane will be coming in
Kamaelia-NEXT)
    * Tk integration. (The pipeline builder is a nice example of a tool
this
      enables)
    * Dirac encoded video decoders and encoders
    * Support for video playback. (dirac & YUV)
    * Variety of pygame based components, including
    * Tools for greater control over the pygame surface managed
environment
    * Tools for building simple games. (controlling sprite behaviour for
      example)
    * Much richer tools for file reading and writing
    * Includes re-usable file readers.
    * More utilities for message filters and splitting of messages
    * Basic tools for simuluating error conditions and failure rates
      for delivery of messages (Sufficient for simulating an unstable
      underlying internet infrastructure).


What is Kamaelia?
=================

The project aims to make it easy to build networked multimedia
systems (eg audio, video, interactive systems). The result is systems
which are naturally componentised. Also, the resulting systems are
/naturally concurrent/ allowing quick and fast reuse in the same way
as Unix pipelines do. 

It is designed as a practical toolkit, such that you can build systems
such as:
???*?Ogg?Vorbis?streaming?server/client?systems?(via?vorbissimple)
   * Create Video players & streaming systems (for dirac).
       * With subtitles.
???*?Simple?network?aware?games?(via?pygame)
???*?Quickly?build?TCP?& Multicast based?network?servers?and?clients
   * Presentation tools
   * A networked audio mixer matrix (think multiple audio sources over
     network connections mixed and sent on to multiple locations with
     different mixes)
   * Look at graph topologies & customise the rules of display &
     particle types.
.... Mix and match all of the above.

You can also do a lot of this *visually* using the new PipeBuilder
application in Tools.

Essentially if the system you want to build involves audio or moving
pictures, and you want to be able to make the system network aware,
then this should be quick and easy to do using Kamaelia. (If it isn't,
then a) it's a bug b) needs improving :-)

It runs on Linux, Window, Mac OS X with a subset running on Series 60
phones.

The basic underlying metaphor of a component us like an office worker
with inboxes and outboxes, with deliveries occuring between desks,
offices, and depts. The component can thus do work anyway it likes but
only communicates with these inboxes and outboxes. Like office workers,
components run in parallel, and to achieve this are generally
implemented using python generators, but can also used threads.

The rationale behind the project is to provide a toolkit enabling the
development of new protocols, including streaming, for large scale
media delivery. The license essentially allows use in proprietary
systems without change, but all changes to the system itself must be
shared.

Oh, and due to things like the visual editor, the use of pygame in
a lot of examples, the use of dirac & vorbis, it's quite a lot of
fun too :-)


Requirements 
============ 

    * Python 2.3 or higher recommended, though please do report any bugs 
      with 2.2. 
    * Axon (1.1.2 required) 
    * vorbissimple (if you want to use the vorbis decode
      component/examples) 
    * dirac bindings (again from kamaelia site) if you want to use the
      dirac encode/decode components & examples). (And dirac of
      course :-)

Axon, vorbissimple and python-dirac are separate parts of the Kamaelia
project,  and available at the same download location - see below) 


Platforms 
========= 

Kamaelia has been used successfully under both Linux, Windows and Mac OS 
X (panther). A subset of Kamaelia has been successfully tested on Series
60 Nokia mobiles when used with the Axon SERIES 60 branch. 


Where can I get it? 
=================== 

Web pages are here: 
     http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Docs/ 
     http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/ (includes info on mailing lists) 

ViewCVS access is available here: 
     http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/kamaelia/ 

Tutorial for the core component/concurrency system:
    * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/MiniAxon/

Project Motivations:
    * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Challenges/


Licensing 
========= 

Kamaelia is released under the Mozilla tri-license scheme 
(MPL1.1/GPL2.0/LGPL2.1). See
http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Licensing.html

Best Regards,


Michael.
-- 
Michael.Sparks at rd.bbc.co.uk, http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

This message (and any attachments) may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.



From cowie.rob at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 15:42:35 2005
From: cowie.rob at gmail.com (Rob Cowie)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 12:42:35 -0700
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1751.1128772716.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128735204.407666.193440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1751.1128772716.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128800555.639954.9780@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well.. that put me in my place!

Fredrik Lundh - I hadn't realised that 'is' does not test for
equivalence. Thanks for the advice.



From gg at fauskes.net  Wed Oct 26 09:07:05 2005
From: gg at fauskes.net (propell)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 06:07:05 -0700
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130332025.206073.33560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I use Silvercity for my web site. SilverCity is a Python interface to
the Scintilla lexers. It's available at
http://silvercity.sourceforge.net/

I find the output from silvercity a bit verbose, so I have written a
few Python classes for cleaning up the output. The code is available at
http://fauskes.net/nb/syntaxhighlighting/

- Kjell Magne Fauske



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Oct 25 16:59:34 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:59:34 +0200
Subject: security
In-Reply-To: <1130247483.668999.322640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130247483.668999.322640@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e92fc$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Mattia Adami a ?crit :
> Hi to all.
> I'm intristing in write a plugin for browsers that can execute python
> code.
> I know the main problem is security. Many thread were opened about this
> in the ng.
> I would know if fork python rewriting some library could avoid
> problems. I.e. one problem is the possibility to access files. If I
> rewrite the open() function so that raises exception if the program try
> to access a file out of a defined directory.
> I'm sure not a security expert, so please be patient if my question is
> stupid.
> Thanks to all.

I'm not a security expert either, but you may want to have a look at the 
  way Zope 2.x handles this kind of restrictions for TTW scripts.



From hyakugei at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 22:14:40 2005
From: hyakugei at gmail.com (Jos)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0700
Subject: Thread's, async_chat and asyncore
Message-ID: <1128392080.485892.287770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello.

I'm using the asyncore and _chat modules to create a network server. I
also have, running in a separate thread(s), a "producer" which needs to
"push" data onto the network connection(s). (This is all for a
multi-player game server, so the threads would be individual games,
that need to update the players when new events happen in the game)

I currently have a module level list of async_chat instances, which the
thread then reads and uses the 'push' method of async_chat.

I've done some very quick tests, but wanted to know more formally if
the async_chat.push() method is thread safe?

ie. can i be sure that the data that the thread pushes onto the
connection will always be complete, and never "over-written" by another
thread?

Here is an example, which creates a whack of threads, which push their
message down the first connection made to the server. I just use a
telnet client to test it. I haven't seen any over-writing of values,
but this is a very basic test/example of what i'm doing. I just want to
make sure that this _is_ ok, or if i should be using a Queue...

<file>
import asynchat
import asyncore
import socket
from threading import Thread
import time
import random

clients = []

class pulse_thread(Thread):
    def __init__(self, string):
        Thread.__init__(self)
        self.msg = string

    def run(self):
        while True:
            time.sleep(random.random())
            if(len(clients)):
                clients[0].push(self.msg)

class Chat(asynchat.async_chat):

    def __init__(self, sock, addr, terminator="\r\n", name="me"):

        asynchat.async_chat.__init__(self, conn=sock)

        self.rmq = []
        self.terminator = terminator
        self.set_terminator(self.terminator)
    # push self onto module client list, so threads can access me
        clients.append(self)

    def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
        """Buffer the data"""
        self.rmq.append(data)

    def found_terminator(self):
        print "".join(self.rmq)
        self.rmq = []

class cServer(asyncore.dispatcher):

    # constructor method
    def __init__(self, addr, terminator="\r\n"):

        # initalize asyncore
        asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)

        self.terminator = terminator

        # create a socket to listen on
        self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)

        # bind the socket to the ip/port
        self.bind(addr)

        # listen ??? don't know about the 5 ????
        self.listen(50)

    # EVENT handle_accept - fired when server accepts an new connection
    def handle_accept (self):
        # fire the accept method > returns a connection object
        conn, addr = self.accept()

        # extend the connection with cSock Class (another asyncore)
        #cSock(conn, addr)
        Chat(conn,addr,self.terminator)


if __name__ == '__main__':

    for i in range(1,99):
        x = pulse_thread(":%02d:\n\r" % (i,))
        x.start()

    myserver = cServer(('127.0.0.1',7000))

    asyncore.loop()
</file>

Please let me know if this is totally the _wrong_ way to do it!

Thanks,
Jos



From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 22:42:19 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:42:19 GMT
Subject: wierd threading behavior
In-Reply-To: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129330815.876193.147800@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f0_3f.18141$U51.10211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Qun Cao:

> import thread
> def main():
>     thread.start_new(test.())
> 
> def test():
>     print 'hello'
> 
> main()
> "
> this program doesn't print out 'hello' as it is supposed to do.
> while if I change main()

    The program has exited before the thread has managed to run. It is 
undefined behaviour whether secondary threads survive main thread 
termination but it looks like they don't on your system.

    Use the threading module and call join to wait for all threads to 
complete before exiting the program.

    Neil


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Oct 12 12:05:22 2005
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:05:22 +0200
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<1129123866.536068.69520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <s9zy84y67r1.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>

"Java and Swing" <codecraig at gmail.com> writes:

> static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
[...]
>       char *aString = 0;
>   	char *bString = 0;
[...]
>   	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
[...]
> 	free(aString);
>  	free(bString);

aString and bString are pointers to memory managed by the strings in
your args tuple.  You must not free them!  The memory is automatically
managed by Python.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Oct 27 11:57:36 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:57:36 -0400
Subject: socket.error: (32, 'Broken pipe'): need help
In-Reply-To: <A760C39F7CB34F45B040C9D0D80F9BCA2EF5D2@esealmw106.eemea.ericsson.se>
References: <A760C39F7CB34F45B040C9D0D80F9BCA2EF5D2@esealmw106.eemea.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <4360F8F0.1040806@bellsouth.net>

Junhua Deng (AL/EAB) wrote:

>Hi,
>I have a simple server-client application with threading. It works fine when both server and client on the same machine, but I get the following error message if the server is on another machine:
>
>... ...
>    self.socket.send(outgoingMsg)
>socket.error: (32, 'Broken pipe')
>
>I do not know where to start with? 
>
>Thanks
>Junhua
>  
>
Can you tell if the recipient actually got any of the data?  At what 
point do you get this error?  Is the client able to connect to the 
server?  Could you extract some more code (connection made, the sender's 
sending code, receiver's receiving code, etc.) so we can see what you're 
doing?  Did you happen to tell the server to bind "localhost" or 127.0.0.1?

- jmj


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 06:37:54 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:37:54 +0100
Subject: strange import error with Python-2.4.1
In-Reply-To: <434B8EDF.3060905@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <434B8EDF.3060905@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <434B9602.9070001@holdenweb.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> Whilst testing the excellent xlrd http://www.python.org/pypi/xlrd/0.3a1
> I came across the following strangeness when trying to add an import of os to 
> assist with debugging/tracing.
> 
> 
> At line 66 I replaced
> 
> import sys
> 
> with import sys, os
> 
> and then ran python runxlrd.py --help and got this error which is not a real 
> syntax problem
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "runxlrd.py", line 5, in ?
>      import xlrd
>    File "C:\python24\lib\site-packages\xlrd\__init__.py", line 552
>          if DEBUG: print >> self.logfile, "SST Processing"
> 
> if I remove the , os then the run produces the expected
> 
> usage: runxlrd.py [options] command input-file-patterns
> 
> options:
>    -h, --help            show this help message and exit
>    -l LOGFILENAME, --logfilename=LOGFILENAME
>                          contains error messages
>    -v VERBOSITY, --verbosity=VERBOSITY
>                          level of information and diagnostics provided
> 
> I also am able to change the line to
> 
> import sys
> import os
> 
> without error.
> 
> This behaviour doesn't occur with 2.4.2 or 2.4 only with 2.4.1. I looked for 
> some bug fix in the recently released 2.4.2 that related, but couldn't find 
> anything obvious. My system doesn't have psyco so xlrd's attempted psyco use 
> shouldn't be an issue. Thanks for 2.4.2, but is this one of the fixed bugs or 
> has it just got harder to induce?

Robin:

Can I ask if you are specifying a source encoding in your file with a 
pragma (?) like

# -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-

I've noticed what appear to be spurious syntax errors from time to time 
on such files, and have been attempting to debug the problem for some 
time without any apparent success.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 11:12:34 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:12:34 GMT
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<0fkrl15cteikfb09ah670kv9bupr902soi@4ax.com>
	<Xns96FA5932B48C9duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <435e45fe.929142326@news.oz.net>

On 25 Oct 2005 07:46:07 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Tim Roberts wrote:
>
>>>
>>>- Nestable Pascal-like comments (useful): (* ... *)
>> 
>> That's only meaningful in languages with begin-comment AND end-comment
>> delimiters.  Python has only begin-comment.  Effectively, you CAN nest
>> comments in Python:
>
>I believe that the OP is mistaken. In standard Pascal comments do not nest, 
>and you can mix delimiters so, for example:
>
>    (* this is a comment }
>
>Most Pascal implementations require the delimeters to match and allow you 
>to nest comments which use different delimiters, but I'm not aware of any 
>Pascal implementations which would allow you to nest comments with the same 
>delimiter:
>
>    (* This is not a valid (* comment within a comment. *) *)
>
>To this extent Python (if you consider docstrings as a type of comment) 
>does exactly the same thing:
>
>""" this is # a docstring! """
>
># and this is """ a comment """
>
Dusting off old ((c) '74, corrected '78 printing, bought in '79)
Jensen/Wirth Pascal User manual & Report, 2nd edition:
(had to search, since 'comment' was not in the index!)
"""
The construct
    { <any sequence of symbols not containing "}"> }
maybe inserted between any two identifiers, numbers (cf. 4), or
special symbols. It is called a _comment_ and may be removed from
the program text without altering its meaning. The symbols { and
} do not occur otherwise in the language, and when appearing in
syntactic description they are meta-symbols like | and ::= .
The symbols pairs (* and *) are used as synonyms for { and }.
"""

I suspect whether you can match a (* with a } depends on a particular
implementation. I think I have run across at least one where they
were independent, so you could use one to comment out blocks of
mixed program and comment source commented with the other.

... aha, it must have been Borland Delphi Object Pascal:
"""
The following constructs are comments and are ignored by the compiler:
    { Any text not containing right brace }
    (* Any text not containing star/right parenthesis *)
A comment that contains a dollar sign ($) immediately after the opening { or (* is a
/compiler directive/. A mnemonic of the compiler command follows the $ character.
"""

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From nephish at xit.net  Tue Oct 25 15:06:43 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 12:06:43 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <h1osl19sg05fbnv0r2s1qd34vigt11dimk@4ax.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<djlfvd$5lh$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>
	<1130253519.330211.92880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<h1osl19sg05fbnv0r2s1qd34vigt11dimk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1130267203.357225.180410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

 tics.append('"%s" %s' % (time.strftime(...), x))
        # might need time.localtime(x) for that last term.

ok, tried this and it worked.
but the first plot is at the last plot of data
back to that math mistake i mentioned earlier.
so, thanks much, i will be back when i mess around with it some more
and
see if i can get it right.
thanks very very much guys,

i know i sound frustrated and ignorant, but i am having a lot of fun
with this



From nospam at here.com  Tue Oct  4 06:58:21 2005
From: nospam at here.com (Matt Feinstein)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:58:21 -0400
Subject: Processing an image with numarray.nd image
References: <434251e3$0$11154$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hnn4k11d7kib4u3jttiu89tm7dtjv2047c@4ax.com>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:56:51 +0200, Rapha?l MARC
<raphael.marc at free.fr> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Can anyone tell me how to open an image
>and transform it into a list so that
>the functions of the multi dimensionnal module of
>numarray (numarray.nd image) can process it ?
>
>Do I have to use PIL ?
>
>So I would code something like :
>import Image
>im = Image.open("Python.jpg")
>data = list(im.getdata())
>import numarray.nd image as ti
>ti.median filter(data,...)

I've been doing something like that...

from numarray import  *
import numarray.nd_image as Filter
import PIL.Image as Image

im = Image.open(file_name)
array_dat = reshape(array(list(im.getdata())), im.size)
filt_array_dat = Filter.correlate(array_dat, my_filter)

et cetera...

Matt Feinstein

--
There is no virtue in believing something that can be proved to be true.


From lsumnler at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 11:58:33 2005
From: lsumnler at gmail.com (len)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 08:58:33 -0700
Subject: Newbie ? MS Sql update of record
Message-ID: <1128614313.274710.172080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have created a python program that takes a flat file and changes some
of the data and create a new flat file with the changes.  Part of this
process requires that I try to find a particular model car in an MS Sql
table.  This part of the program is now working great.

It has come to my attention that some of the information in the flat
file could be used to update our information in the MS Sql table that I
currently run the query on.  Basicly I create a recordset of vehicles
from the MS Sql table based on vehicle year and make and once I have
this recordset I run it through logic which does a reqular expression
compare on the vehicle VIN no to the
VIN number in the table to get a match.  I would like to update this
record in the table with info. in the flat file.  I believe there
should be some way to update the fields in this record of the recordset
and then update the table.  I am not an sql expert and would appreciate
someone pointing me in the right direction.  Contained below is a
listing of my code;

# The following code creates a connection object,
# assigns the connection string, opens the
# connection object, and then verifies a good
# connection.

oConn = Dispatch('ADODB.Connection')

oConn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;" +\
                         "Data Source=uicesv05;" +\
                         "uid=aiis;" +\
                         "pwd=aiis;" +\
                         "database=auto_mo_001"

oConn.Open()
if oConn.State == adStateOpen:
    print "Database connection SUCCEEDED"
else:
    print "Database connection FAILED"

# The following code creates a command object,
# assigns the command to the connection object,
# sets the query, creates the parameters objects to
# be passed to the command object and requests the
# query to be prepared (compiled by the SQL system).

oCmd = Dispatch('ADODB.Command')
oCmd.ActiveConnection = oConn
oCmd.CommandType = adCmdText

oCmd.CommandText = """\
SELECT
    VA_MK_YEAR,VA_MK_DESCRIP,VO_VIN_NO,VO_MODEL,VO_BODY,
    VO_DESCRIPTION,VO_MODEL_ID
FROM D014800 INNER JOIN D014900
    ON VA_MK_NUMBER_VER = VO_MAKE_NO AND
        VA_MK_YEAR = VO_YEAR
WHERE VA_MK_YEAR = ? AND VA_MK_DESCRIP = ?
"""

vyear = ''
vmake = ''
oParmYear = oCmd.CreateParameter(vyear,adChar,adParamInput)
oParmYear.Size = 4
oParmMake = oCmd.CreateParameter(vmake,adChar,adParamInput)
oParmMake.Size = 10

oCmd.Parameters.Append(oParmYear)
oCmd.Parameters.Append(oParmMake)

oCmd.Prepared = True

...

def wrkveh(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkveh function does an SQL record lookup to try an select
    the correct vehicle in the V1sta make and model files.  If the
    correct model is found I move V1sta's make model and body
    descriptions to the flat file.  Currently, I hard code a 1 for
    vehicle use.  The drive segment is an occurs 6"""
    cnt = 0
    vehwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart:strstart + 10] == '          ':
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 133]
        else:
            vmake = ifile[strstart:strstart + 10]
            vyear = ifile[strstart + 98:strstart + 102]
            vvin4_8 = ifile[strstart +53:strstart + 58]
            vmodel = ''
            vbody = ''
            oParmYear.Value = vyear
            oParmMake.Value = vmake
            (oRS, result) = oCmd.Execute()
            while not oRS.EOF:
                wvin =
oRS.Fields.Item("VO_VIN_NO").Value.replace('*','.')
                wvin.replace('*','.')
                wvin = wvin[0:5]
                r1 = re.compile(wvin)
                if r1.match(vvin4_8):
                    vmake = oRS.Fields.Item("VA_MK_DESCRIP").Value
                    vmodel = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_MODEL").Value
                    vbody = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_DESCRIPTION").Value
                    vmodelid = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_MODEL_ID").Value
                    print 'DRC model ' + vmake + ' ' + vyear + ' ' +
vmodel + \
                          ' ' + vmodelid
                    break
                else:
                    oRS.MoveNext()
            else:
                print 'DRC model NOT FOUND'
            vehwrk = vehwrk + vmake + vmodel + vbody
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart + 50:strstart + 107]
            vehwrk = vehwrk + '1'
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart + 108:strstart + 133]
        strstart += 133
        cnt += 1
        
    return vehwrk



From jari.aalto at cante.net  Sat Oct 15 14:40:00 2005
From: jari.aalto at cante.net (Jari Aalto)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:40:00 +0300
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list of
	files)
References: <mailman.2111.1129375867.509.python-list@python.org>
	<c5t723-v71.ln1@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4q7ityin.fsf@blue.sea.net>

"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson at gmail.com> writes:

> On 2005-10-15, Jari Aalto wrote:
>    Don't indent:
>
> function compile ()
> {
>          python -c '
> import os, sys, py_compile;
> i = 0;
> for arg in sys.argv:
>       file  = os.path.basename(arg);
>       dir   = os.path.dirname(arg);
>       i += 1;
>       if i > 1  and os.path.exists(dir):
>           os.chdir(dir);
>           print "compiling %s\n" % (file);
>           py_compile.compile(file);
>   '  $*
> }

Thanks, is there equivalent to this Perl statement in Python?

   @list = @ARGV[1 .. @ARGV];

or something similar so that I could avoid the 1 > 1 (sys.argv) check
altogether?

Jari



From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Mon Oct 17 16:43:19 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:43:19 -0400
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<mailman.2125.1129436361.509.python-list@python.org>
	<4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<BYmdnW_Ijr-XmcneRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <43540cc0$0$41147$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> 
>> Thanks. Now, a slightly more complicated question.
>> 
>> Say I have two lists of floats. And I wish to generate a list of floats
>> that is a user defined function of the two lists.
> 
> result = [sqrt(x**2 + y**2) for x, y in zip(xs, ys)]
> 

Works perfectly. Thanks !


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Oct 15 00:59:51 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:59:51 -0700
Subject: Problem splitting a string 
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HKidndlZ-KhaEc3eRVn-rg@speakeasy.net>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> I have this simple string:
> 
> mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
> 
> I want to split it and give me a list as
> 
> ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']
> 
> 1. I tried mystr.split('_| '), but this gave me:
> 
> ['this_NP is_VL funny_JJ']
> 
> It is not splitted at all.

Use re.split:

 >>> re.split('_| ', s)
['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   To love without criticism is to be betrayed.
   -- Djuna Barnes


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 18:17:29 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:17:29 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <djrjlv$i31$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message 
news:7xvezi8ypy.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it's an important point that no 
>> court
>> ever found that Microsoft illegally acquired a monopoly. So to 
>> characterize
>> the monopoly itself as "illegal" is simply erroneous.

> Who is paying you to tell these ridiculous crap?  The monopoly is illegal
> if maintained by anticompetitive means regardless of how it was acquired.
> From http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/conclusions-l.html:

    Is it your position that Micorosoft's monopoly was illegal when they 
first acquired it?

>   The threshold element of a  sec 2 monopolization offense being "the
>   possession of monopoly power in the relevant market...

    If that were true, how could a person ever legally acquire a monopoly, 
which is exactly what the courts held with respect to Microsoft?

> David Schwartz, I have a direct question for you: are you on
> Microsoft's payroll?

    No. I have never received a dime from Microsoft, either directly or 
indirectly. I am one of those people who believes that conduct that's 
perfectly legal, moral and ethical before you can be said to have a monopoly 
does not suddenly become immoral or unethical the day you acquire 51% of 
what someone calls a market. I am not the only person with this view.

http://www.capitalism.org/faq/antitrust.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0945999623?v=glance
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-169.html
http://www.independent.org/publications/books/book_summary.asp?bookID=31
http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=344&org_name=NTUF

    DS




From dima_turbiner at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 19:11:45 2005
From: dima_turbiner at yahoo.com (dima_turbiner at yahoo.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 16:11:45 -0700
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130351182.476810.210140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130351182.476810.210140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130368304.976043.170290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

A really easy one to use is Doxygen

Good luck,
Dimitri

Googmeister wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > in some online documentations, for examples:
> >
> > http://perldoc.perl.org/perlref.html
> > http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-17.html
> > http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellDemo
> >
> > the codes are syntax colored.
> >
> > Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?
>
> I've used GNU Source-highlight with success.
> 
>     http://www.gnu.org/software/src-highlite/source-highlight.html



From akameswaran at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 17:13:16 2005
From: akameswaran at gmail.com (akameswaran at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 14:13:16 -0700
Subject: newbie question about SocketServer
Message-ID: <1129842796.819897.309040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Is it just me or do the server_close() methods do squat?  I'm primarily
working with a ThreadingTCPServer object and trying to create a simple
server that can shut itself down.  But even simplest cases don't seem
to work.

Admittedly I am trying it from within my handler class, but for some
odd reason, the server is allways willing to handle one more request
before dying.  Then it dies.



From perl at my-header.org  Sun Oct  2 15:02:25 2005
From: perl at my-header.org (Matija Papec)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:02:25 +0200
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon [was Re: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum]
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
	<c5ednakvTPmrKKPeRVn-3g@dls.net>
Message-ID: <j2b0k1lj7f2knmrdjk1tmsdtu9pr8fh5rp@4ax.com>

X-Ftn-To: Paul F. Dietz 

"Paul F. Dietz" <dietz at dls.net> wrote:
>> As a similar example: I've been told by various women independently,
>> that "there are more babies born near a full moon."
>
>That's also a myth.

Perhaps not, consider deamon or vampire babies.
























:)


-- 
Matija


From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Tue Oct 11 02:44:11 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:44:11 +0200
Subject: Batteries Included?
References: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkmnp9.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Alex enlightened us with:
> Python's moto is "Batteries Included", but where are the batteries
> for making exe files and making an installer file?

Those aren't "batteries". Those are things you can do with the
program, but are outside the programming language. Writing and
distributing software is one thing. Converting them to a
platform-specific executable is another.

> I had to download, install and use py2exe and Inno Setup in order to
> accomplish this.

Well done.

> I might be wrong expecting that a language whose moto is "Batteries
> Included" would be able to produce exe files.

Indeed, you're wrong. Why would such an ability be included in Python?
It's a cross platform language. What need would Mac, Linux, BSD,
Solaris etc. users have for such a feature? And why would it have to
be included, when there is an easy solution just around the corner?
You prooved that it was easy enough to install and use by someone who
just learned Python. I really don't see the problem here.

> Are there plans to do this in the future version of Python?

I doubt it.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 17:37:43 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:37:43 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<86slv8xdkw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4@4ax.com>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:45:03 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Jeff Poskanzer, now *he* has a spam problem. He gets a few million
>spams a day: <URL: http://www.acme.com/mail_filtering/ >.

It is a bit like termites. If we don't do something drastic to deal
with spam, the ruddy things will eventually make the entire Internet
unusable.

the three keys to me are:

1. flipping to a digital id based email system so that the sender of
any piece of mail can be legally identified and prosecuted.
If every piece of anonymous email disappeared that would go a long way
to clearing up spam.  Let those sending ransom notes, death threats
and  hate mail use snail mail.  As a second best, correspondents are
identified by permission/identity/encryption keys given to them by
their recipients.

2. flipping to a sender pays system so that the Internet does not
subsidise spam.

3. Mail is not transported without prior permission.  The receiver can
turn that permission on and off any time he chooses.  This is
basically an automated version of what Zaep does where the sender is
not consciously aware of the permission-getting step.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 09:27:19 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:27:19 +0200
Subject: How do I access the property info in this example ?
References: <1130332635.319629.91900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlv0tl.g3n.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

David Poundall enlightened us with:
> class C(object):
>     def getx(self): return self.__x
>     def setx(self, value): self.__x = value
>     def delx(self): del self.__x
>     x = property(getx, setx, delx, "I'm the 'x' property.")
>
> I would like to get at ...
>
> "I'm the 'x' property."

As usual: C.x.__doc__

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 07:30:04 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 04:30:04 -0700
Subject: Redirect os.system output
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2509.1130225382.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129927486.854143.169670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<43596c70$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130154552.795209.25830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435cd10c$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130157195.954433.131650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130159194.833666.250820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435d04b8$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1130170339.476122.61080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2509.1130225382.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130239804.889031.139640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Paul,
   I did ceck out the PExpect, however, I thought it was not ported for
Windows.  Did you find a ported version?  If not, what did you have to
do to be able to use it?

Thanks

Paul Dale wrote:
> You might want to try python expect which gives you a very simple and
> scriptable interface to a process.
>
> http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
>
> I've been using it on windows to automate a few things.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
> jas wrote:
>
> >Kent,
> >  Yes, your example does work.  So did os.popen...however, the problem
> >is specific to "cmd.exe".
> >   Have you tried that yet?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Kent Johnson wrote:
> >
> >
> >>jas wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Ok, I tried this...
> >>>
> >>>C:\>python
> >>>Python 2.4.1 (#65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
> >>>on win32
> >>>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>import subprocess as sp
> >>>>>>p = sp.Popen("cmd", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>result = p.communicate("ipconfig")
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>'result' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> >>>operable program or batch file.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>basically I was opening to send the "ipconfig" command to cmd.exe and
> >>>store the result in the "result" variable.  But you can see there was
> >>>an error with result.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>This works for me:
> >>import subprocess as sp
> >>p = sp.Popen("ipconfig", stdout=sp.PIPE)
> >>result = p.communicate()[0]
> >>print result
> >>
> >>Kent
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >  
> >



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 03:43:41 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:43:41 +0200
Subject: Multiple assignments simplification
References: <1129162253.273873.277050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dil379$aig$1@sea.gmane.org>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

> I don't know if C++ compilers can do such optimizations.

working on a Python to C/C++ translator without knowing what kind
of optimizations a C/C++ compiler can do for you sounds like a great
way to waste your time...

(I would be rather bit surprised if any contemporary C or C++ compiler
didn't generate optimal machine code for source code that contains swaps
like the one you posted.  it won't look at just the swap statement, however;
the interesting thing is where the values came from, and what you're doing
with the values later on. minimizing the number of assignment statements in
the swap translation won't change a thing...)

</F> 





From mrstephengross at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 09:43:14 2005
From: mrstephengross at hotmail.com (mrstephengross)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:43:14 -0700
Subject: Which SQL module to use?
Message-ID: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'd like to do some basic SQL stuff in Python. It seems like there are
a heck of a lot of SQL modules for Python. What's the simplest and
easiest one to use?

Thanks,
--Steve (mrstephengross at hotmail.com)



From superprad at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 15:11:58 2005
From: superprad at gmail.com (PyPK)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 12:11:58 -0700
Subject: Function to execute only once
Message-ID: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi if I have a function called
tmp=0
def execute():
    tmp = tmp+1
    return tmp

also I have
def func1():
    execute()
    ....
and
def func2():
    execute()
    ....

now I want execute() function to get executed only once. That is the
first time it is accessed.
so taht when funcc2 access the execute fn it should have same values as
when it is called from func1.



From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Oct  7 05:39:46 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:39:46 +0100
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<dhkonr$mvl$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <43464262.3040406@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

As mentioned earlier only a dictator can make such decisions and of course as 
with many dictatorships the wrong decision is often made. There's no such thing 
as a benevolent dictatorship.
-- 
Robin Becker



From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 13:39:39 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 10:39:39 -0700
Subject: Web based applications are possible with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129657179.693127.277100@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I don't think this is possible, unless I am grossly misunderstanding.

For the web, pretty much every "UI" is build with some variation of
HTML (XHTML is the new standard) with JavaScript thrown in for fancy
GUI-like interfaces.

You can't use OS-native widgets in the web browser, no.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:31:38 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:31:38 +0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><mailman.2486.1130167209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djkqhb$t7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joerg Schuster wrote:

> I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups.

define "more" (101, 200, 1000, 100000, ... ?)

</F> 





From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct  4 09:34:28 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 06:34:28 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<43424bee$0$38666$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1128419720.504389.323330@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128432868.933546.45780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> While Microsoft and other big software vendors might have a roadmap
> that ties you very tightly in with their budget, and also changes that
> roadmap from time to time which breaks your current software, a lot of
> open source projects have no roadmap at all.
>
> This means that a .x.y.2 upgrade might very well kill your software in
> the same way a 6-7 upgrade with VB might.

I think this explanation confuses the term roadmap with general release
discipline. A lot of open source projects are, well, open about things
like API stability and will label their stuff as "alpha" if things are
going to change frequently - one complaint heard relatively often is
that many open source projects are reluctant to put out a 1.0 release
because they don't consider their work to be finished. Meanwhile, many
open source projects do try and preserve consistency between
micro-releases, with any inconsistency being a fault that should be
raised with the maintainers - such faults being a phenomenon not
limited to open source software, either.

> The biggest reason for this, as far as I can tell, is that open source projects are very
> much built to integrate with other projects, simply because the source is
> available and it's thus far easier to integrate them, but that also
> means that unless you upgrade two integrated projects at the same time,
> you risk an upgrade in one breaking the other.

I'm not sure whether source availability is really the problem here.
I've experienced micro-release breakage and it was due to the
integration of lots of different libraries, many of which were upgraded
in the process of making the new micro-release of the software in
question, but with some of the more egregious breakage coming about
because in some micro-update of one of the libraries, the author
decided to radically change the available features of that library.
Since this was all Java-based, source availability really wasn't a
factor (these were all .jar files, after all); the problem could be
boiled down to good old release discipline: if one of your dependencies
plays fast and loose with API stability, expect some users to get
caught out.

If package maintainers make transitions of their software from release
2.4.2 to release 2.4.3 involve significant rewrites of your own
application, my advice involves either avoiding such packages from the
beginning or, if it's too late, considering what would be necessary to
maintain/subvert acceptably stable versions of them.

> I think a main point in a lot of projects is that unless you have to
> upgrade, don't. That way you can avoid a lot of problems by default.

This is good advice! The big difference between open source and
Microsoft, however, is that you can feasibly choose not to upgrade to
the next bloated/misguided release of some software and yet attempt to
roll in all the security updates and useful enhancements whose absence
would otherwise expose your applications to misuse or obsolescence.
Either path can involve a lot of hard work, but at least you get the
choice with open source software.

Paul



From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Mon Oct 10 16:33:29 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:33:29 +0200
Subject: how to capture key pressing
References: <stz2f.22845$133.7103@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<hxz2f.353$tV6.127@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <neA2f.22929$133.22091@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

> Look at curses.

I was searching for something portable on multiple platforms.
Curses doesn't work on Windows. 




From Vulvazb at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 03:22:01 2005
From: Vulvazb at hotmail.com (Vulvazb at hotmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:22:01 -0700
Subject: LINDA WEST (925) 876-7441 of CHIPMAN UNITED VAN LINES likes to commit
	Fraud & Forgery and she likes to put peoples names on moving
	contracts with out there Knowledge.Caton Mayflower Moving &
	Storage Dublin, ca & concord, ca (925) 876-7441, 925-887-5515, 
Message-ID: <1129015321.911485.72220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

LINDA WEST (925) 876-7441 of CHIPMAN UNITED VAN LINES likes to commit
Fraud & Forgery and she likes to put peoples names on moving contracts
with out there Knowledge.Caton Mayflower Moving & Storage Dublin,ca &
concord,ca (925) 876-7441, 925-887-5515,
925-825-5000, 800-825-3866,800-447-9771, 925-609-1800,
800-447-1771, 925-935-4073, 925-828-3985



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 18 06:42:44 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:42:44 +0200
Subject: Bloodhound.Exploit.49 trojan found in MIMEBase.pyc
References: <Gb45f.43406$U9.41138@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <dj2jj7$dgd$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Hunsley wrote:

> Symantec antivirus has apparently picked up a virus in my Python 2.4
> (under cygwin):
>
> Scan type:  Scheduled Scan
> Event:  Threat Found!
> Threat: Bloodhound.Exploit.49
> File:  C:\cygwin\lib\python2.4\email\MIMEBase.pyc
> Location:  Quarantine
> Action taken:  Quarantine succeeded
>
> There's info to be found on various pages, but it's a pretty terse
> explanation:
> http://secunia.com/virus_information/22534/bloodhound.exploit.49/
>
> Has anyone had this also? Is it perhaps a false positive?

if Python had anything to do with this, they would probably have mentioned it
in the related documents:

http://www.sarc.com/avcenter/venc/data/bloodhound.exploit.49.html
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS05-048.mspx

</F> 





From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 18:11:34 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:11:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Profiling Python using gprof
Message-ID: <20051011221135.3188.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, 

I would like to profile a Python program using gprof.
I already rebuilt Python with CC="gcc -pg"
./configure. So, I should be able to use gprof. How do
I do that? Should I first run Python and then gprof?
What are the steps?

Thanks a lot!



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Tue Oct  4 14:13:25 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (Mohammed Smadi)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:13:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: tcp socket programming
In-Reply-To: <4342bc6d$0$11074$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041412450.1371-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>


On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Mohammed Smadi wrote:
> > hi;
> > If i have a tcp connection with a remote server, what is a good way to 
> > read all the data into a buffer before starting to process the data?
> > I know that the data recieved will be 3 lines with CRLF between them.  
> > However if I can sock.recv(1024) the output is not consistent all the 
> > time, sometime i get one line and sometimes i get two.  So I figures I 
> > should read all the data first then work on it and I used the following 
> > code:
> > result = []
> > while True:
> >     got=s.recv(1024)
> >     print got
> >     if not got: break
> >     result.append(got)
> >     got = [] # i tried also taking this out
> > s.close()
> > 
> > but this code just hangs in the loop and never quits
> 
> ... because it doesn't 'know' when to stop reading.
> The socket recv() returns anything from 0 to 1024 bytes
> depending on the amount of data that is available at that time.
> 
> You have to design your wire protocol a bit differently if you want
> to do this in a consistent, reliable way.
> For instance, you can decide on sending *one* byte first that
> signifies the amount of bytes to read after that. (limiting the
> size to 255 ofcourse).
> 
> Or you will have to change your read-loop to read until it
> encountered the third CRLF occurrence (and no more!)
> 
> The latter is actually quite easily done by not reading directly
> from the socket object, but first converting it to a file-like
> object:
> 
> s=socket.socket(....)
> s.connect(...)
> 
> fs=s.makefile()
> fs.readline()
> fs.readline()
> fs.readline()
> 
> 
> --Irmen.
> 
that seems to have worked.  I need to do more testing.  Thanks



From bretthoerner at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 21:53:41 2005
From: bretthoerner at gmail.com (Brett Hoerner)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 18:53:41 -0700
Subject: How is wxWindows related to Python?
In-Reply-To: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128218021.449328.269790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I guess it is referring to the closely related (maybe even same dev
group? I don't know why the wxWindows docs would mention Python unless
they specifically support the wxPython project, too.)

"wxWindows + Python = wxPython

wxPython is a Python extension module that provides a set of bindings
from the wxWindows library to the Python language. In other words, the
extension module allows Python programers to create instances of
wxWindows classes and to invoke methods of those classes.

More from this Chapter:

? Using Tkinter

? Using PythonWin

The wxPython extension module attempts to mirror the class hierarchy of
wxWindows as closely as possible. This means that there is a wxFrame
class in wxPython that looks, smells, tastes, and acts almost the same
as the wxFrame class in the C++ version.

wxPython is close enough to the C++ version that the majority of the
wxPython documentation is actually annotations to the C++ documentation
that describe the places where wxPython is different. There is also a
series of sample programs included, and a series of documentation pages
that assist the programmer in getting started with wxPython. "
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/excerpts/chpt20/wxpython.html

http://www.wxpython.org/



From mtebeka at qualcomm.com  Mon Oct 24 05:33:09 2005
From: mtebeka at qualcomm.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:33:09 +0200
Subject: wxPython advice
In-Reply-To: <1129538114.173460.176180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129538114.173460.176180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051024093309.GA2208@qualcomm.com>

Hello vpr,

> I've written a p2p program using socketserver that's nice and quick.
> I'd like to give the user a tray applet (part of the p2p service) that
> will allow the user to activate / deactivate / config and exit the
> service.
> However I'm starting to bang my head on the mainloop funtions that
> manage
> wx and socket events.
> 
> Anyone been down this road that can give me some advice
One common solution is to do all the work in a "worker thread" and keep the
GUI responsive to command.

Note that Python don't have native support to pause/resume threads. You'll
need to get your thread to check for new state every now and then. (Usually
this means keep transactions small) or use processes instead of threads
(see http://home.pacbell.net/ouster/threads.pdf).

You might want to use async socket reading as well.

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <mtebeka at qualcomm.com>
http://tebeka.bizhat.com
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys
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From quncao at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:09:44 2005
From: quncao at gmail.com (Sophia Cao)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:09:44 -0700
Subject: threading/forking and IPC
Message-ID: <1129324184.818503.7760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am seeking a python solution for my project.  I am trying to
implement an architecture where there is a server who receives incoming
messages from several clients, then those messages need to be written
to a MySQL database.  To avoid too many connections to the database, I
plan to save the incoming messages into a queue, while use a seperate
process/thread to constantly monitoring the queue and storing the
messages to the database.  I am not sure wheather I should use
threading or forking and how to implement the sharing of this message
queue. 

Thanks a lot for any advice.



From thomasbartkus at comcast.net  Tue Oct 18 18:03:05 2005
From: thomasbartkus at comcast.net (Thomas Bartkus)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:03:05 -0500
Subject: Dealing with Excel
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hNmdndn-UoOa7MjeRVn-ow@telcove.net>

"Robert Hicks" <sigzero at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129670191.061006.146320 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I need to pull data out of Oracle and stuff it into an Excel
> spreadsheet. What modules have you used to interface with Excel and
> would you recommend it?

What does one use to bind Microsoft libraries to Python?
I think it would be "win32com" and I confess to not having used it.

Best bet would be to use Microsofts ADODB library together with Excels own
CopyFromRecordset function. Using ADODB, you can easily create a connection
to an Oracle server.  You would use this to stuff an ADODB.Recordset object
with query results.  Once you have your recordset stuffed with query results
you can pass it to the Excel "CopyFromRecordset" function:

    Worksheets("Whatever").Cells(1,1).CopyFromRecordset  {recordset object}

and wham!  - You have it in a table on a worksheet.

Thomas Bartkus






From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Oct  4 14:05:41 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:05:41 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-A6C25D.10182404102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<4342bd9a.3192006743@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <donn-C0C6DF.11054104102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <4342bd9a.3192006743 at news.oz.net>,
 bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:18:24 -0700, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> [...]
> >In the functional language approach I'm familiar with, you
> >introduce a variable into a scope with a bind -
> >
> >   let a = expr in
> >       ... do something with a
> >
> >and initialization is part of the package.  Type is usually
> >inferred.  The kicker though is that the variable is never
> >reassigned. In the ideal case it's essentially an alias for
> >the initializing expression.  That's one possibility we can
> >probably not find in Python's universe.
> >
> how would you compare that with
>     lambda a=expr: ... do something (limited to expression) with a
> ?

OK, the limitations of a Python lambda body do have this effect.

But compare programming in a language like that, to programming
with Python lambdas?  Maybe it would be like living in a Zen
Monastery, vs. living in your car.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From david at jotax.com  Wed Oct 19 04:46:10 2005
From: david at jotax.com (spinner)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 01:46:10 -0700
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
References: <dj492l$3hf$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <1129711570.361702.21300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have this problem myself, and as I am a recent Python convert my
aproach may not be conventional - but as it is working for me I thought
I would share.

First off you need to split your code into logical objects.  In my case
I have an obvious client and server object,  But within each I have
individual stand alone major objects and so my directory structure
reflects this...

Prog Dir
    -- MainApp.py
    Bin
        __init__.py
        --- main.py
        --- lib.py
        Client
            __init__.py
            --- main.py
            Browser 1
                __init__.py
                --- main.py
                --- B1_file1.py
                --- B1_file2.py
            Browser 2
                __init__.py
                --- main.py
                --- B2_file1.py
                --- B2_file2.py
        Server
            __init__.py
            --- main.py
            Server Object 1
                __init__.py
                --- main.py
                --- SO1_file1.py
                --- SO1_file2.py
            Server Object 2
                __init__.py
                --- main.py
                --- SO2_file1.py
                --- SO2_file2.py


Each main.py file is used to call each downstream main.py file be it as
a thread or once only run.  The beauty of this idea is that if I want
to completely change say Server Object 2, I can do whatever I like
within the downstream directory as the only outside call is via an
external reference to the main.py file.

If you have a mind, you could have a library file of common apps held
within the bin directory that you can make available to all downstream
modules.

As I say - it only works if you can logically split your program into
independent blocks.

If there is a more Pythonesque way of doing this I be grateful if
someone could share.

HTH



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 18 19:24:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:24:02 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.18.23.23.57.642668@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>>> Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
>>
>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.
> 
>     That's almost as convincing as "that's what you think".
> 
>     DS


When you are repeating a fact with as much psychological research
supporting it as that one, it isn't necessary to justify it, any more than
it would be necessary to justify a statement like "parents love their
children". It isn't John Kennedy's fault that you aren't up to date.

Both statements are generalisations, it is true, and both are probably
true about the same percentage of time.

Oh, and if you think I'm saying something shocking by suggesting that
somebody is a psychopath, I'm not. Something like one in five of the
general population are psychopaths, a much higher percentage of
"go-getters" like company CEOs, generals, politicians, executives, etc.
Very few of them chop people up into small pieces and bury them in the
wall cavities of their house.

With training and/or a good dose of enlightened self-interest, most
psychopaths are perfectly capable of learning to not be selfish vicious
brutes who care only for themselves and perhaps a few others. Or rather,
to stop *acting* as selfish vicious brutes. Not caring about the harm done
by your corporate machinery is not a crime. Actually doing that harm is,
or at least should be, although sadly when we allow the psychopaths to
make the rules, they tend to make rules that allow themselves to prosper
at our expense.


-- 
Steven.



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 16:25:40 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 13:25:40 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129235140.938321.134990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Ok, I understand... What about the MD5? Is it good enough to use when
saving a hashed password on the database?

For example:
user_input = raw_input("Type your password: ")
password = md5.md5(user_input).hexdigest()
SavePasswordInDatabase(user,password)



From xah at xahlee.org  Thu Oct 13 02:51:05 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 23:51:05 -0700
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
In-Reply-To: <diks73$ck5$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129170241.274868.45680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diks73$ck5$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1129186265.871236.166670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> Like the sorted function in Python ?
>
> li2 = sorted(li)
>
> you can also specify a key and a cmp function if you need to.

Thanks. I didn't know there's also a sort function in Python (2.4),
besides the method. (i've mentioned your name as acknowledgement at my
website essay)

The Python doc really should mention it at the place where the sort
method is documented.

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From dave.benjamin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:43:12 2005
From: dave.benjamin at gmail.com (dave.benjamin at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:43:12 -0700
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <slrndl1a35.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434f8a54$0$16641$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<slrndl1a35.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <1129574592.754495.72530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:37:25 +0200, Christophe <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:
> > Kenneth McDonald a ?crit :
> >> For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP  (from
> >> OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that  I can
> ...
> >> Yes, I know that Cygwin is out there, but last I looked, they still
> >> went through the Win command-line window, which imposes a lot of
> >> restrictions.
> ...
> > Last time I checked, you could install a native win32gui version of rxvt
> > with cygwin. This would give you a better terminal window than that
> > crappy thing you get in XP.
>
> Last time /I/ checked (two years ago or so) that rxvt looked nice enough,
> but was impossible to use in practice. I cannot remember /what/ the problem
> was -- possibly it was that it could only run CygWin-compiled commands, or
> something vital only worked with CygWin-compiled commands. Google probably
> knows more.

Cygwin comes with a fully-functioning X server, from which you can run
just about any terminal program you like. For awhile, I was using
Konsole, but KDE on Cygwin is a bit slow and buggy. Recently I switched
to "mrxvt", which is like "rxvt" but with tab support and keyboard
shortcuts almost identical to Konsole. It's easy to compile for Cygwin,
and so far I'm really enjoying the improved speed. Here's my .mrxvtrc:

mrxvt*bottomTabbar:     true
mrxvt*scrollBar:        false
mrxvt*font:             neep-alt-bold-14
mrxvt*boldFont:         neep-alt-bold-14
mrxvt*foreground:       snow
mrxvt*background:       black
mrxvt*geometry:         80x40
mrxvt*saveLines:        65535
mrxvt*hotkey*Dummy:     Ctrl+Shift+underscore

I like my tabs at the bottom, Konsole-style, and don't really like
scrollbars on terminals. I use the Neep Alt font, which is nice for
coding because it makes 'l', '|', '1', etc. all look different, and I
like thick console fonts. I was a Fixedsys diehard for a long time. The
"saveLines" variable lets you increase the scrollback buffer
(shift-PgUp/Down) pretty high - I have it maxxed out. And that last
line tells mrxvt to ignore C-_, which is undo in emacs. There are still
a few other keyboard bindings that I'd like to turn off at some point.

One drawback of mrxvt is that it doesn't support UTF-8. I don't do much
multi-language stuff, but on most Linux distributions the manpages are
in UTF-8, so you get garbage characters unless you fiddle with your
LANG/LOCALE settings.

Oh yeah, and to keep this on topic, Cygwin's Python works just fine in
mrxvt, though the native Windows version doesn't work so well. It
doesn't print any output, which I think is due to buffering... however,
I tend to use PythonWin for interactive development, and emacs with M-x
shell to actually test and run (native) Python scripts. I'm pretty
happy with it, overall.

Dave



From dotpyFE at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 11:04:37 2005
From: dotpyFE at gmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:04:37 GMT
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
In-Reply-To: <1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128176637.146092.314200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9GS%e.7067$vw6.1891@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Xah Lee wrote:

[snip]

>(they tried, with their limited implementation of lambda and
> shun it like a plaque)

Can't say I've heard that expression before...

-- 
--------------------------
Lucas Raab
lvraab"@"earthlink.net
dotpyFE"@"gmail.com
AIM:	Phoenix11890
MSN:	dotpyfe "@" gmail.com
IRC:	lvraab
ICQ:	324767918
Yahoo:	Phoenix11890


From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 26 08:56:34 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:56:34 GMT
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
In-Reply-To: <Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <62L7f.213783$p_1.129087@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Duncan Booth wrote:

> No, I didn't think it was malice which is why I just added what I 
> considered to be a polite request at the end of my message. I assumed that 
> most people either knew the phrase or could find out in a few seconds using 
> Google so there wasn't much point in rehashing the arguments. Probably I 
> should have equally lambasted Ron for the heinous crime of bottom-quoting. 

I usually try to keep things in reasonable context and or order.  I tend 
to bottom quote only when either the message is short enough to fit on a 
single page, or when I'm adding new content that isn't a direct response 
to an individual item but builds on the above ideas.  Sometimes deciding 
what to trim out of various really good replies is difficult. ;-)

In any case, I don't take offense to any suggested improvements. I 
wouldn't be surprised if many of my posts were considered hard to follow 
at times.  A chronic sleeping disorder combined with dyslexia can 
sometimes make expressing my thoughts in words rather challenging on 
some (most) days.


>>quote from James (4)
> 
> comment from Ron (5)
> 
>>>>quote from James (2)
>>>
>>>comment from Ron (3)
>>>
>>>>quote from James (2)
>>>>
>>>>>quote from Ron (1)
> 
> I spent a while trying to trim that down to relevant context, and in 
> particular trying to work out in what order the original statements had 
> been made. In the end I gave up and replied to an earlier message which was 
> more easily trimmable.

I was undecided weather to trim the later (earlier) responses or not, 
but decided to leave them in.


>>Also, here is a well written synopsis of the arguments in 
>>favor of top-posting and they may even be strong enough to legitimize the 
>>practice:
 >
> The arguments are mostly sound, but I would draw slightly different 
> conclusions:
> 
> Follow the conventions of the particular newsgroup or mailing list, but 
> with that in mind, for all replies, Middle Post. Respond to each point in 
> turn with lots of snipping.

In general I find a well written top post in a friarly prompt *email* to 
be fine.  What I refer to as well written in this case, is where the 
author restates the question, points, or issues in their own word first, 
and then follow that up with their response and or conclusions. 
Especially if it's any sort of official or at least non casual 
interchange.  In that case the quotes appended to the end serves as 
history that can be referenced if needed.

But in news groups, it's best to try and keep things conversational with 
as you call middle posts.  It allows people to add to the conversation 
as if they were all present at the same time, even though they may 
actually be replying at varying different times.  I tend to try not to 
break up paragraphs if possible though, and attempt to break my posts up 
into short paragraphs to leave spaces for others to insert their 
replies.  But I wouldn't claim I'm completely consistent on these issues 
myself.


 > He's right though, its not a religious issue.

Yep, I agree with this also.  ;-)

Cheers,
    Ron




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Oct 22 13:54:01 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:54:01 -0500
Subject: UI Design, XUL, Blender
Message-ID: <200510221254.02078.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

Newcomers to Blender (3D modelling/animation program)
often find its fairly unique UI a bit off-putting,
but on closer inspection, I find it's a very compelling
design for "power users" (i.e. professionals who need to
use a given program on a daily basis, and who are therefore
willing to make the effort to learn the specific interface).
It is much better than either a command line interface
or a more conventional GUI, for that purpose, IMHO.

Unfortunately, Blender doesn't really follow a Model-View-
Controller design, so I'm not sure how separable the
interface is from the rest of the program (I'm asking that
question elsewhere). My question here, is just how unique,
really, is that interface?  Could it be implemented with
"standard" GUI toolkits (using complex widgets and
customizing button appearance, for example)?

The main things I notice as a user are that:

* The buttons are smaller and use iconic graphics, so you
  can access more controls at once.

* Extensive use of "tabs" allowing control pallettes to be
  brought up or expanded, facillitating highly hierarchical
  pallettes.

* Widgets are color-coded as to functionality and fall into
  several important categories:

  o ON/OFF (Bistate)
  o ON/OFF/FLOATING (Tristate)
  o Numerical data entry, which act simultaneously as
    sliders and data-entry widgets

* The main thing is that these "buttons" actually have
  fairly complicated behavior, acting as sliders,
  text-entry, and selectboxes simultaneously.

(I may be missing things that would be more apparent to GUI
designers, though, so I'd be even more interested in a reply
from someone who's actually seen the Blender UI themselves.)

I'm wondering if this could be achieved in a Python program
by using wxPython or PyGTK or another popular, 
cross-platform GUI toolkit?  Also, is a GUI specification
language like XUL capable of expressing this kind of 
interface so that it could be made functional on multiple
GUI implementations?

I'm trying to compare two alternatives:

1) Figure out how to mimic the Blender GUI in a more
   conventional, separable GUI toolkit, so that an MVC
   design can be more easily used.  (This leaves a fairly
   complication "View" component, but there are other fairly
   advanced 3D visualization components).

2) Use Blender itself, using the Python scripting facility
   to wedge an MVC design into it (probably by hacking
   Blender to create a bridge between Blender's internal
   (C struct based) model, and an external model (probably
   represented in an object database component, such
   as ZODB).

in order to figure out which would be easier.

Any more informed comments from people who know the various
GUI packages would be a lot of help.  I assume it goes
without saying that I'm looking at Python as an integration
language.  In my ideal design, the M,V, and C components
are separate Python modules, so that the communications
are all at the Python level.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 06:25:39 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 03:25:39 -0700
Subject: "dynamical" importing
In-Reply-To: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129717539.628747.314510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks a lot to all.



From jabel at plus.net  Wed Oct 19 04:52:49 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:52:49 +0100
Subject: "dynamical" importing
In-Reply-To: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43560961.9070504@plus.net>

Try:

userModule = _importModule( pathToModule )

def _importModule( moduleName ):
    modName = __import__ ( moduleName )
    modComponents = moduleName.split( '.' )
    for indivComp in modComponents[ 1: ]:
        modName = getattr( modName, indivComp )

    return modName

HTH,

J

Joerg Schuster wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I need to import modules from user defined paths. I.e. I want to do
>something
>like:
>
>module_dir = sys.argv[1]
>
>my_path = os.path.join(module_dir, 'bin', 'my_module')
>
>from my_path import my_object
>
>Obviously, it doesn't work this way. How would it work?
>
>J?rg Schuster
>
>  
>



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Oct 26 17:26:17 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:26:17 +0200
Subject: assignment to reference
In-Reply-To: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
References: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <435feab7$0$31384$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Loris Caren a ?crit :
> If
> 
> a = 'apple'
> b = 'banana'
> c = 'cabbage'
> 
> How can I get something like:-
> 
> for i in 'abc':
>     r = eval(i)    
>     if r == 'cabbage': r = 'coconut'
> 
> actually change the object referenced by r rather
> than creating a new object temporarily referenced by it?
> 
> I've tried playing with eval and exec without the desired
> effect.

for obj in (a, b, c):
   if obj == 'cabbage':
     obj = 'coconut'



From panewman at uiuc.edu  Tue Oct 25 23:28:13 2005
From: panewman at uiuc.edu (Peter Newman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:28:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Embedded Python interpreter, runtime libs, and crashing
Message-ID: <slrndlttsv.t95.panewman@remsun1.ews.uiuc.edu>

I'm embedding a Python interpreter into a project, and compiling with
MSVC.  It all runs great in the "Debug" configuration, but everything
gets scary when I switch to "Release".

I've read about things that can go wrong when you use the wrong runtime
library when compiling a program that uses Python.  I've done my best to
follow the suggestions I've read, but I still seem to be having trouble.
Here's a summary of how I've configured my project:

Release:
========
- C/C++->Code Generation->Runtime Library: Multithreaded DLL
- Linker->Input->Additional Dependencies: ... python24.lib
- Output EXE runs beside Python24.dll

Debug:
======
- C/C++->Code Generation->Runtime Library: Multithreaded Debug DLL
- Linker->Input->Additional Dependencies: ... python24_d.lib
- Output EXE runs beside Python24_d.dll


The debug configuration works flawlessly.  Release is another story
altogther.  It usually crashes with a segmentation fault or access
violation (reading memory address 0).  At one point it ran, but the code
seemed to be executing in the wrong order (stuff getting called before
initialization functions were finished, etc.)


-- 
Peter Newman (panewman at uiuc.edu)


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 20 12:11:55 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:11:55 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-20, nephish at xit.net <nephish at xit.net> wrote:

> [...] I need to make an x y chart for some data that comes in
> from sensors at different times durring the day. i need it to
> show the value in the y and the time in the x .  no problem so
> far. But what i cannot get to happen is to scale x (time of
> the plot) with respect to time.

Gnuplot does that just fine.  Just give it two columns of data, the
first being the x value (time) and the second being the y value.

All of the other plotting packages handle this as well.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I hope I
                                  at               bought the right
                               visi.com            relish... zzzzzzzzz...


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct  9 06:34:33 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 11:34:33 +0100
Subject: Question about StringIO
In-Reply-To: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diarni$2ml$1@sea.gmane.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I understand that StringIO creates a file-like object in memory.
> 
> Is it possible to invoke another program, using os.system() or
> os.popen(), and use the < redirect operator, so that the other program
> reads my StringIO object as its input?
> 
> I will provide more details if required, but hopefully this is enough
> for a simple yes or no answer, and if so, how.
> 
> BTW, I have tried using popen2() and passing my data via stdin, but the
> other program (psql) does not react well to this - again, I will give
> more info if necessary.
> 
Unfortunately the StringIO module only creates instances inside the 
process they are called: these objects have no existence to the 
operating system or to other processes, and so can't be used for 
inter-process communication.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Oct  3 15:56:56 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:56:56 -0400
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051003195656.3914.1640379349.divmod.quotient.23611@ohm>



On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:52:21 +0200, Jacob Kroon <jacob.kroon at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading.
>First let me
>describe the scenario with an example:
>
>modules/
>    fruit/
>        __init__.py
>        apple.py
>        banana.py
>
>apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The
>problem lies in the
>fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance
>peach.py, and not change
>__init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in
>__init__.py. I've come halfway
>by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is
>that the instantiated
>objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild
>I want it to be
>fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
>
>Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
>If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would
>be very grateful.

The __module__ attribute of class objects is mutable.  I don't understand *why* this makes a difference, though.  The class's name is a pointer to where it is defined: this is useful because it saves a lot of grepping, and unambiguously tells the reader where the class came from.  If you start making it mean something else, you'll end up confusing people.  If you just want a pretty name, use something /other/ than the class's fully qualified Python name.

Jp


From Florian.Lindner at xgm.de  Tue Oct  4 04:59:09 2005
From: Florian.Lindner at xgm.de (Florian Lindner)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:59:09 +0200
Subject: Graphical debugger/code explorer
References: <dhrlbj$sph$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1128357577.579290.122340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhtgaq$rvk$03$1@news.t-online.com>

benz wrote:

>>>>PYTHON_IDE={
> 'spe' : 'http://spe.pycs.net/',
> 'eric3' : 'http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html',
> 'drpython' : 'http://drpython.sourceforge.net/'}

I've tried out eric3 and it looks promising. However, I have one problem. I
open a file which is part of Zope and set a breakpoint. Now I open the
runzope start script and execute it from within eric. This runzope script
calles (after running through a larger call-tree) the function where I set
the breakpoint. But execution is not stopped there.... Why?

Thanks,

Florian


From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Tue Oct 25 13:06:39 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:06:39 -0400
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlsflt.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2472.1130153788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlpjei.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djlbnq$6jm$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlsflt.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djlon4$f2k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-25, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
> 

>>Which is exactly why a < b on sets returns True xor False, but cmp(a,b) 
>>throws an exception.
> 
> 
> I don't see the conection.
> 
> The documentation states that cmp(a,b) will return a negative value if
> a < b. So why should it throw an exception?

Because it's useful that cmp(a1, a2) should either (return a value) or 
(throw an exception) for any element a1, a2 within type(a1) cross 
type(a2).  If cmp sometimes is okay and sometimes throws an exception, 
then it leads to weird borkage in things like trees.

With that in mind, not all sets are comparable.  {a} and {b} have no 
comparison relationship, as you've pointed out, aside from not-equal. 
I'll get to why "not-equal" is a bad idea below.

>>cmp(a,b) asks for their relative rankings in some total ordering.
> 
> 
> The documentation doesn't state that. I also didn't find anything in
> the documentation on how the programmer should code in order to
> enforce this.

Most programmers are simply programmers; they haven't had the benefit of 
a couple years' pure-math education, so the distinction between "partial 
order" and "total order" is esoteric at best.

With that in mind, compare should conform, as best as possible, to 
"intuitive" behavior of comparison.  Since comparisons are mostly done 
on numbers, an extension of comparisons should behave "as much like 
numbers" as possible.

> 
> So someone who just use the rich comparisons to implement his
> partial order will screw up this total order that cmp is somehow
> providing.
> 
> And cmp doesn't provide a total ordering anyway. Sets are clearly
> uncomparable using cmp, so cmp doesn't provide a total order.

Cmp isn't supposed to "provide" a total order, it's supposed to reflect 
relative standing in one if one already exists for P1 x P2.  If one 
doesn't exist, I'd argue that it's the best course of action to throw an 
exception.

After all, rich comparisons were put in precisely to allow support of 
limited comparisons when a total order (or indeed full comparison) isn't 
appropriate.

> 
> Maybe the original idea was that cmp provided some total ordering,
> maybe the general idea is that cmp should provide a total ordering,
> but that is not documented, nor is there any documentation in
> helping the programmer in this. 

I doubt that anyone was thinking about it in such depth.  My bet is that 
the thought process goes this way:

Og compare numbers.  Numbers good, compare good.  Grunt grunt.
<some aeons pass>
Language designers: Wouldn't it be nice if we could allow user-defined 
objects, such as numbers with units, to compare properly with each 
other?  This would let us say (1 m) < (.5 mile) pretty easily, eh?

Guido: Let's let classes override a __cmp__ function for comparisons.

In programming language theory, comparisons were firstly about numbers, 
and their leading-order behaviour has always stayed about numbers. 
Comparing entities which are best represented in an... interesting 
formal mathematical way (i.e. partial orders, objects for which some 
comparisons are Just Plain Weird) works only as a side-effect of 
number-like behavior.

The lesson to take home from this: the less a custom class behaves like 
a number, the less intutitively meaningful (or even valid) comparisons 
will be on it.

> 
> And even if we leave sets aside it still isn't true.
> 
> 
>>>>from decimal import Decimal
>>>>Zero = Decimal(0)
>>>>cmp( ( ) , Zero)
> 
> -1
> 
>>>>cmp(Zero, 1)
> 
> -1
> 
>>>>cmp(1, ( ) )
> 
> -1

I'd argue that the wart here is that cmp doesn't throw an exception, not 
that it returns inconsistent results.  This is a classic case of 
incomparable objects, and saying that 1 < an empty tuple is bordering on 
meaningless.


> 
>>For a 
>>space that does not have a total ordering, cmp(a,b) is meaningless at 
>>best and dangerous at worst.
> 
> 
> The current specs and implemantation are.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with a function that would provide four kinds of
> results when given two elements. The same results as cmp gives now
> when it applies and None or other appropiate value or a raised
> exception when not.
> 
> Given how little this functionality differs from the current cmp,
> I don't see why it couldn't replace the current cmp.

My biggest complaint here is about returning None or IncomparableValue; 
if that happens, then all code that relies on cmp returning a numeric 
result will have to be rewritten.

Comparing incomparables is an exceptional case, and hence it should 
raise an exception.

As for saying that cmp should return some times and raise an exception 
other times, I just find it squicky.  Admittedly, this is entirely up to 
the class designer, and your proposed guideline wouldn't change cmp's 
behavior for clases that /are/ totally ordered.

Then again, sets excepted, your guideline doesn't seem very applicable 
in standard library code.

>>It /should/ throw an exception when the 
>>results of cmp aren't well-defined, consistent, antisymmetric, and 
>>transitive.
> 
> 
> That an order is not total in no way implies any of the above.
> The order on sets is well-defined, consistent, antisymmetric
> and transitive.

A partial order is by definition consistent, antisymmetric, and 
transitive.  A total order is furthermore universal, such that if a != 
b, aRb xor bRa.

This matches the normal use of cmp, and comparing two incomparable 
objects is an exceptional case -- hence the exception.  Although again, 
you're free to provide a cmp for your classes that operates only on a 
subset of type x type.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 25 13:25:35 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:25:35 +1000
Subject: Documentation for iteration in mappings
References: <435e49b8$1@news.uni-ulm.de> <7i1233-qcv.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.25.17.25.31.966549@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:02:47 +0200, Michael Str?der wrote:

> Dennis Benzinger wrote:
>> 
>> I must be blind because I didn't find anything in the documentation
>> which says iterating over an dictionary iterates over its keys.
[snip]
>> Where is this information hidden? :)
> 
> You should examine your program. Simply pasting the code above to the
> Python shell fails as expected:

Yes, this is true, but also irrelevant. The question isn't about the code,
but about the documentation.

The answer does appear to be hidden quite deeply. I had to dig out an old
"What's New" for version 2.2 to find it, hidden away in a section on
iterators:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.2/whatsnew/2.2/index.html#SECTION000400000000000000000


-- 
Steven.



From nospam at here.com  Mon Oct  3 10:46:19 2005
From: nospam at here.com (Matt Feinstein)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 10:46:19 -0400
Subject: morphological image processing in Python
References: <slrndk2fm5.cck.alf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <gug2k1d75eck9rjd7msb99nvict97sdo11@4ax.com>

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:23:11 +0000 (UTC), Alexandre Fayolle
<alf at merlin.fayauffre.org> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm about to start a project which will involve some greyscale image
>processing using morphological operators (erosion, dilation, distance
>transforms...), and I was wondering if these operators were available in
>Python through some open source libraries. 
>
>A quick google search returned pymorphpro[1], which is unfortunately not
>free software, and there also seem to be something available in ITK [2].
>Unless I'm mistaken, the PIL does not provide these operations, nore do
>Numeric/numarray/scipy. 
>
>Have I missed the one true Python mathematical morphology toolbox?
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice.

Actually, numarray does support morphological array operations. See
the chapter on 'Multi-dimensional image processing' in the numarray
docs.


Matt Feinstein

--
There is no virtue in believing something that can be proved to be true.


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  2 16:25:06 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:25:06 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> > Yes, the point is that it's something that you can check for by
>> > examining the class in question without having to examine any other
>> > classes.
>> 
>> That's a pretty restrictive convention to follow.
>
> What convention?  It just makes it possible to write code with some
> specific invariants if there's a need to do so.

That you don't pass private variables to a function unless it's a
buitin. Python is *not* a strict OO language, and uses utility
functions for lots of things. To make private work the way you have to
change the library to use a strict OO approach, probably including
providing a real hierarchy instead of just duck typing.

>> So it turns out that getting the behavior you desire involves
>> following a lot of conventions.
>
> That improves on the current situation.  Right now the behavior is
> impossible to obtain in Python no matter how many conventions you
> follow, unless you follow them through a whole program of arbitrary
> size instead of just in the class that you're trying to protect a
> variable in. 

Just adding private doesn't change this significantly - it just makes
the compiler enforce one of the large number of conventions you have
to follow.

>> In other words, by adding private to python, you're making it so that
>> bugs involving overwriting a private attribute will involve only the
>> owning classes code so long as everyone follows the conventions that
>> exist about the use of such variables.
> Not everyone, just the author of the class that uses the private
> variable.  That's the point.

Except that, with Python as it exists today with a private keyword
added, it's *still* everyone. The only convention breaking the private
keyword would allow the compiler to catch is a reference to
foo.private. It wouldn't catch overriding things in __builtins__ or
overriding builtins in a module, or things poking at the variable
through __dict__, or - well, there are probably lots of things that
need to be dealt with.

>> > I don't see how pylint could know which instances to flag,
>> I was thinking it would flag any use of such a variable where the
>> target variable wasn't "self". That may be a stronger constraint than
>> you wanted - but that's good, right?
> Shrug.  That might be of some limited usefulness, but all it tries to
> do is prevent accidents.  And it does nothing about setattr/getattr.

Preventing accidents is all "private" does - without fundamental
changes to the implementation of the language. You have to catch every
mechanism that can be used to find a reference to an attribute, like
references to __dict__ and to the class variable.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Oct 24 00:44:48 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:44:48 -0700
Subject: An interesting question about "print '\a'"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2454.1130128641.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2454.1130128641.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pcKdneJxSr1d-8HeRVn-hQ@speakeasy.net>

Anthony Liu wrote:

> We know that if we do
> 
> print '\a'
> 
> the bell will sound.
> 
> Now, why do I hear the sound on my local machine when
> I run a python script on a remote host?

Because print '\a' just prints the BEL ASCII character, which most 
terminals respond by beeping.  Since, when you're logged into a remote 
machine, it's your terminal that's displaying the output of your remote 
session, that's why you hear the beep on your local machine.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   Maybe soul mates exist / After all
   -- Des'ree


From stijndesaeger at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 10:07:47 2005
From: stijndesaeger at gmail.com (vdrab)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 07:07:47 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211220250.22209@urchin.earth.li>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129853715.441205.322480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86wtk7ty71.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211220250.22209@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1129903667.255441.133490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

You can tell everything is well in the world of dynamic languages when
someone posts a question with nuclear flame war potential like "python
vs. ruby" and after a while people go off singing hymns about the
beauty of Scheme...

I love this place.
v.



From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 23 20:55:21 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:55:21 -0400
Subject: how to count and extract images
References: <pan.2005.10.23.23.51.26.381272@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <86pspv7myu.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Joe <dinamo99 at lycos.com> writes:
> start = s.find('<a href="somefile') + len('<a
> href="somefile') 
> stop = s.find('">Save File</a></B>',
> start) fileName = s[start:stop]
> and then construct the url with the filename to download the image 
> which works fine as cause every image has the Save File link and I can
> count number of images easy the problem is when there is more than image I
> try using while loop downlaod files, wirks fine for the first one but
> always matches the same, how can count and thell the look to skip the fist
> one if it has been downloaded and go to next one, and if next one is
> downloaded go to next one, and so on.

To answer your question, use the first optional argument to find in both
invocations of find:

stop = 0
while end >= 0:
      start = s.find('<a href="somefile', stop) + len('<a href="somefile')
      stop = s.find('">Save File</a></B>', start)
      fileName = s[start:stop]

Now, to give you some advice: don't do this by hand, use an HTML
parsing library. The code above is incredibly fragile, and will break
on any number of minor variations in the input text.  Using a real
parser not only avoids all those problems, it makes your code shorter.
I like BeautifulSoup:

soup = BeautifulSoup(s)
for anchor in soup.fetch('a'):
    fileName = anchor['href']

to get all the hrefs. If you only want the ones that have "Save File"
in the link text, you'd do:

soup = BeautifulSoup(s)
for link in soup.fetchText('Save File'):
    fileName = link.findParent('a')['href']

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 11:46:35 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:46:35 GMT
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com><435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<1h4xfdx.azxzrkhr5xukN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2521.1130230343.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435e4cb3.930859184@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:44:07 +0200, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>Alex Martelli wrote:
>
>>> my hard-won ignorance, and admit that I don't see the
>>> problem with the property examples:
>>>
>>> >     class Sic:
>>> >         def getFoo(self): ...
>>> >         def setFoo(self): ...
>>> >         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
>>
>> Sorry for skipping the 2nd argument to setFoo, that was accidental in my
>> post.  The problem here is: class Sic is "classic" ("legacy",
>> "old-style") so property won't really work for it (the setter will NOT
>> trigger when you assign to s.foo and s is an instance of Sic).
>
>what's slightly confusing is that the getter works, at least until you attempt
>to use the setter:
>
>>>> class Sic:
>...     def getFoo(self):
>...         print "GET"
>...         return "FOO"
>...     def setFoo(self, value):
>...         print "SET", value
>...     foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
>...
>>>> sic = Sic()
>>>> print sic.foo
>GET
>FOO
>>>> sic.foo = 10
>>>> print sic.foo
>10
>
>(a "setter isn't part of an new-style object hierarchy" exception would have
>been nice, I think...)
>
Hm, wouldn't that mean type(sic).__getattribute__ would have to look for type(sic).foo.__get__
and raise an exception (except for on foo functions that are supposed to be methods ;-)
instead of returning type(sic).foo.__get__(sic, type(sic)) without special casing to reject
non-function foos having __get__? I guess it could. Maybe it should.

BTW, I know you know, but others may not realize you can unshadow foo
back to the previous state:

 >>> sic.foo = 10
 >>> print sic.foo
 10
 >>> del sic.foo
 >>> print sic.foo
 GET
 FOO

and that applies even if __delete__ is defined in the property:

 >>> class Sic:
 ...     def getFoo(self):
 ...         print "GET"
 ...         return "FOO"
 ...     def setFoo(self, value):
 ...         print "SET", value
 ...     def delFoo(self):
 ...         print "DEL"
 ...     foo = property(getFoo, setFoo, delFoo)
 ...
 >>> sic = Sic()
 >>> print sic.foo
 GET
 FOO
 >>> sic.foo = 10
 >>> print sic.foo
 10
 >>> del sic.foo
 >>> print sic.foo
 GET
 FOO

but it won't go beyond the instance for del foo

 >>> del sic.foo
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: Sic instance has no attribute 'foo'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ddelay at club-internet.fr  Sun Oct  9 12:15:14 2005
From: ddelay at club-internet.fr (Daniel Delay)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:15:14 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
In-Reply-To: <3qsi6lFgk1ndU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
	<mailman.1783.1128841860.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43490d16$0$6485$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<3qsi6lFgk1ndU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <434941f6$0$458$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Diez B. Roggisch a ?crit :

> Apart from that, I don't think your proposal does any good - it is ugly 
> (or at least not less ugly than the things you want to fix) and confuses 
> the reader because of the colliding use of . for attribute access.

There is no ambiguity ( in one case "." is followed by a name, in 
another case it is followed by a parenthesis) but there is a similarity 
that I wanted and that I try here to illustrate :

#**********************
# Classical way : you need to evaluate
# something for few instances of a class
# so you write a mumber function
#**********************
class Rectangle :
	def area(self):
		return self.height * self.width
...
(... an expression....).area()

#**********************
# Alternative way : you need only once to evaluate something,
# and you work on a big expression
#**********************

(... an expression....).( this.height * this.width )	



But one of the advantages of this syntax is the ability to compose very 
easily those expressions :
(... an expression....).(..expr 1..).(..expr 2..).(..expr 3..) etc...



> 
> E.g.  your own example
> 
> f(g(h(j(x)))
> 
> becomes
> 
> x.(j(?)).(h(?)).(g(?)).(h(?))
> 
> Not x.(j).(h).(g).(h), as you told us. And certainly way uglier than the 
> above way of doing. Besides, you reasoning by comparing with the 
> mathematical o-operator is misleading: the operator creates a new 
> function, that will apply it's parametesr (e.g. f and g) after each 
> other to the argument. 

I agree the comparison to the mathematical o-operator is misleading, it 
was just to say sometimes, it can be usefull introduce new syntax to 
avoid too many nested parenthesis

Paul Rubin asked for ways to do that, and has
> been shown some ways to do so - actually not overly nice looking, but 
> they'd allow for
> 
> (f * g * h)(x)
> 
> which beats your solution on readability, too :)

This is usefull when you need to compose few already defined functions, 
but I more often have to compose few expressions, which is the goal of 
my proposition.

> Overall, it tries to obfuscate code - by creating perl-like "magic" 
> variables. And that is not what Python is known for.

The wildcard "?" does does not sound very pythonic, but a few too magic. 
Perhaps a keyword like "this" is better, that's what I used in the above 
example.

In fact it has nothing to do with magical expression : "this" will 
represent the value of the current expression you work on, in the same 
way "self" represent the value of the object you work on.

> 
> I too have some convoluted constructs as your html-joining example. But 
> if the get too complicated, replacing them by some explicit lines is 
> better than trying to cough up a scheme that makes them work.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Diez


From future_retro at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 05:50:53 2005
From: future_retro at yahoo.co.uk (future_retro at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 02:50:53 -0700
Subject: Python script to install network printers
In-Reply-To: <1128468336_42527@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
References: <mailman.1446.1128439429.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128468336_42527@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <1128505853.852505.30720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

These functions should get you started and probably finished...

def createprinterport(IPAddress,ServerName):
    WBEM =
win32com.client.GetObject(r"winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\"
+ ServerName + r"\root\cimv2")
    WBEM.Security_.Privileges.AddAsString("SeLoadDriverPrivilege")
    printerport = WBEM.Get("Win32_TCPIPPrinterPort").SpawnInstance_()
    printerport.Properties_('Name').Value = 'IP_'+IPAddress
    printerport.Properties_('Protocol').Value = 1
    printerport.Properties_('HostAddress').Value = IPAddress
    printerport.Properties_('PortNumber').Value = '9100'
    printerport.Properties_('SNMPEnabled').Value = 'False'
    printerport.Put_()

def
createprinter(PrinterName,DriverName,Location,ShareName,IPAddress,ServerName):
    WBEM =
win32com.client.GetObject(r"winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\"
+ ServerName + r"\root\cimv2")
    WBEM.Security_.ImpersonationLevel = 3
    WBEM.Security_.Privileges.AddAsString("SeLoadDriverPrivilege")
    printer = WBEM.Get("Win32_Printer").SpawnInstance_()
    printer.Properties_('DeviceID').Value = PrinterName
    printer.Properties_('DriverName').Value = DriverName
    printer.Properties_('Location').Value = Location
    printer.Properties_('Network').Value = 'True'
    printer.Properties_('Shared').Value = 'True'
    printer.Properties_('ShareName').Value = ShareName
    printer.Properties_('PortName').Value = 'IP_'+IPAddress
    printer.Put_()

I also created one for migrating print drivers but had loads of
problems with it.  If the driver doesn't pass Microsoft logo testing
the scripts fail even if it is signed by Microsoft.  I never worked out
why there were 2 levels of protection.



From bonono at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 06:09:13 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 03:09:13 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129715281.505043.60640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129701270.792327.168620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129708210.963305.43270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129710240.173768.151950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129715281.505043.60640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129716553.375057.62940@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Xah Lee wrote:
> This i'm not sure. Of the past couple of years i increasingly developed
> a theory (probably well-known among proper experts), that the
> difficulty of human feats of various forms, are primarily a perception
> and familiarity thing. This may be getting off topic, but i wrote an
> essay expresising much of the idea using Juggling as a example:
> Difficulty Perceptions in Human Feats
>  http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/juggling.html
>
> likewise, i think this applies to mental feats as well. In particular,
> i think that whether imperative code or functional code is easier for
> the mind is almost ENTIRELY dependent on which one the person is more
> familiar with, coulped with a innate attitude one may have picked up.

But most of us start learning programming with imperative language, I
started with COBOL and Pascal(are they still taught). Then we would hit
the problem of looping one way or another pretty soon. Without a doubt,
some experienced programmer would tell you to use for loop or search
for one. This is even true in two heavily used declarative tools, SQL
and Excel. If there is foldl/scanl/map in SQL, I think it would be much
easier to code. Likewise for Excel, it is very functional(like its
ancestors 1-2-3) then VBA was thrown in.

In fact, I think haskell should be taught in any CS course as it opens
up a completely different way of approaching problem and it is easier
to read than LISP.

> oh Haskell, my love! I am really going to learn it now. (maybe i'll
> start A-Java-Haskell-A-Day) This month i just learned and read about
> how Perl 6 is implemented in Haskell! (because one Taiwaness hacker
> single-handedly by happenstance tried to do it, as a by-product of
> learning Haskell) This Pugs (Perl6 in Haskell) really brought two
> rather incompatible communities together somewhat for mutual exchange.
> (the learning, on the surface, is politely said to be mutual, but i'm
> pretty sure it's mostly Perlers learning from the Haskell folks)
After seeing Haskell, I don't think I would go back to Perl(which I
like better than python but python has the momentum as a general
purpose language). That is why I am doing the think in haskell, code in
python, whenever possible.

>
> ... there is a sentiment among the elite tech-geeking morons, early on
> imbued by the concept of troll, so that they in general don't
> communicate and learn from any other language except their own.
> Anything cross-posted is considered as troll, and the inter-language
> communication has been essentially completely cut off. Basically, the
> only ones generating all the garbage posts are these troll-criers
> themselves. (will have to flesh out on this particular point of
> net-sociology in a essay some other day.)
>
May be you can tone down a bit if you want a constructive discussion. I
am too old to have feelings about opinionated posts(and insensitive to)
so I can go through the technical stuff. Confucius said "I can always
learn something whenever there is 3 people getting together", lousy
translation :-)



From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Fri Oct 28 16:14:40 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:14:40 -0700
Subject: ? Pythoncard
Message-ID: <1130530479.983395.118810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I have created a small gui stub as follows using Pythoncard:

c:\myhome
     lmsgui.py
     lmsgui.rsrc.py

When I try to run I get the following error:

(Errno2) no such file or directory lmsqui.rsrc.py

I understand why I am getting the error the question is how do I fix
this so it looks in the proper directories.

Len Sumnler



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 14 00:57:15 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:57:15 +0100
Subject: wxPython & Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <3r8bo1Fi9etjU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <434e8dbf$0$452$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<3r8bo1Fi9etjU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <dindr9$93f$1@sea.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Gilles DRIDI wrote:
> 
>>Does someone has installed wxPython on the Cygwin platform, environment ?
> 
> 
> Why? Use windows python, wxPython for it - and put it in your path to 
> use it inside cygwin.
> 
Don't think that'll work for an extension module.

> But maybe you _can_ compile it yourself - I didn't try, though.
> 
> Diez

Probably a daunting task.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lycka at carmen.se  Thu Oct 20 07:14:13 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:14:13 +0200
Subject: Writing an immutable object in python
In-Reply-To: <1129649265.168515.306010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj0ibt$4ja$1@wake.carmen.se>
	<1129649265.168515.306010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj7u65$62r$2@wake.carmen.se>

Mapisto wrote:
> Ok, I've understood my mistake.
> 
> Now, my list contains a shared entry of an empty object. When an entry
> is needed to be changed, I check if the entry is the shared empty
> object; in that case I create a new unique instance. If the entry is
> already a unique instance, I use it, so the empty object isn't touched.

If you know that you'll use all list entries, you
might as well do it right from the start. Instead
of:

l = [C()] * n

you can do:

l = [C() for i in range(n)]



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 00:06:22 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:06:22 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130122476.079450.216280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4wiqv.m4hrpogqt6tvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:

> could someone enlighten me what is the advantage of block over named
> function ?
> 
> One thing that I can see a difference may be lexical scope ?

"Yes, but" -- according to the latest Ruby book, the "mixed lexical
scope" of blocks is a highly controversial notion in the Ruby community;
so I wouldn't necessarily count it as an _advantage_ of Ruby blocks...


Alex


From no at spam  Mon Oct  3 12:01:57 2005
From: no at spam (D H)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:01:57 -0500
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python, or go with a dot net
	language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
Message-ID: <UKydnZiFAspnyNzeRVn-rQ@comcast.com>

spiffo wrote:
> Ok, I LOVE python, so that is not the issue, but, I am getting very worried
> about it's growth. I recently re-visted the web looking at alot of projects
> I assumed would be up and running by now from over a year ago, such as Boa
> Constructor, Iron Python etc... it seems all these projects get started, but
> never finished.
> 
> Also, more and more I need *complete* control of ms sql from my apps, which
> is simply not available from the adodbapi module I got off the internet...
> also, ms sql 2005 is getting ready to come out... what if the guy that wrote
> adodbapi.py does not feel like upgrading it so it even works with MS SQL
> SERVER 2005? Yeesh... you get the picture...

If everything revolves tightly around a microsoft product (ms sql 2005, 
which isn't even released yet), you probably are boxed in more towards 
other microsoft products.  That's vendor lock-in for you.  You might try 
VS.NET 2005 and see if C# or VB.NET and the ADO.NET api work well for 
you:  http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/
Of course that plus ms sql 2005 will end up costing a great deal of 
money.  Plus none of it is cross-platform, but you already said you do 
not need that.

There are free .NET alternatives like Mono, Sharpdevelop, boo ( 
http://boo.codehaus.org/ ) and nemerle, but they are not caught up with 
.NET 2 stuff yet.  Again, it hasn't even been released yet, and there 
are still bugs in their beta versions.
So it wouldn't surprise me if the python libraries can't handle ms sql 
2005-specific stuff yet either.

So, if you need a short answer now, I'd say go with vs.net 2005, but if 
you can afford to wait a while, free python and .net alternatives will 
catch up.


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Oct  6 16:27:00 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:27:00 -0400
Subject: Lambda evaluation
In-Reply-To: <1128629895.5816.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20051006202700.3914.338280121.divmod.quotient.24966@ohm>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:18:15 -0400, Joshua Ginsberg <listspam at flowtheory.net> wrote:
>So this part makes total sense to me:
>
>>>> d = {}
>>>> for x in [1,2,3]:
>...     d[x] = lambda y: y*x
>...
>>>> d[1](3)
>9
>
>Because x in the lambda definition isn't evaluated until the lambda is
>executed, at which point x is 3.
>
>Is there a way to specifically hard code into that lambda definition the
>contemporary value of an external variable? In other words, is there a
>way to rewrite the line "d[x] = lambda y: y*x" so that it is always the
>case that d[1](3) = 3?

There are several ways, but this one involves the least additional typing:

    >>> d = {}
    >>> for x in 1, 2, 3:
    ...     d[x] = lambda y, x=x: y * x
    ... 
    >>> d[1](3)
    3

Who needs closures, anyway? :)

Jp


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 24 21:14:59 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:14:59 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:59:33 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary.

In the days prior to Win95, Microsoft said "Co-operate with us is this
immoral scheme to screw OS/2 or go out of business.  Your choice."

I call that extortion, even if their lawyers were careful enough to
skirt the letter of the law.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 10:42:19 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:42:19 -0700
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1h4zlsn.15t73ko1d685iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:
   ...
>      class namespace(dict):
>          def __getattr__(self, name):
>              return self.__getitem__(name)
   ...
> Any thoughts?  Any better way to do this?

If any of the keys (which become attributes through this trick) is named
'update', 'keys', 'get' (and so on), you're toast; it really looks like
a nasty, hard-to-find bug just waiting to happen.  If you're really
adamant on going this perilous way, you might try overriding
__getattribute__ rather than __getattr__ (the latter is called only when
an attribute is not found "in the normal way").

If you think about it, you're asking for incompatible things: by saying
that a namespace X IS-A dict, you imply that X.update (&c) is a bound
method of X; at the same time, you also want X.update to mean just the
same thing as X['update'].  Something's gotta give...!-)


Alex


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 16:31:51 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 13:31:51 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
In-Reply-To: <7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128976311.779178.304900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi. I found TSL, a Python Library that supports SRP.
Do you know where can I find a sample client and server code? Thanks
for your help.



From rubencharles at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 12:23:30 2005
From: rubencharles at gmail.com (Ruben Charles)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:23:30 -0400
Subject: [wxPython-users] Web based applications are possible with wxPython?
Message-ID: <aa7b198d0510180923t1820ff8axfd3206d73e8a9837@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,


I am reading some essays --http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html "Beating
the averages"-- and i am very interested in the web-based
applications.

I want to take the advantages having the application on a server. Is
easy to update, maintain, etc...

My questions is

Can i have a wxPython GUI app available on a web browser?

I founded some doc on the www  but the most refers to GUI wrote in
java script and tool kits relates with java. Some java script samples
are interesting but is not what i am looking for.


There is a way for  having wxpython frames, dialogs etc on a web browser?

If not, can you suggest me any kind oh method for have something similar?


Thanks.


From kent37 at tds.net  Sat Oct 22 09:23:21 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:23:21 -0400
Subject: Module Importing Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2397.1129951099.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2397.1129951099.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435a3b3d$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

James Stroud wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I have two modules that I use interchangably depending on the circumstances. 
> These modules are imported by yet another module. I want the "importation" of 
> these two alternatives to be mutually exclusive and dependent on the state of 
> the "outermost module"
> 
> A diagram:
> 
>     mainApp ==imports==> aModule ==imports==> [oneMod | orTheOtherMod]
> 
> I want the importing of oneMod or orTheOtherMod to depend on the state of the 
> mainApp. aModule is frozen, as are oneMod and orTheOtherMod. How might I 
> accomplish this?

I don't know what you mean by frozen, so maybe this is no good, but I would avoid having aModule look back at the state of mainApp. Instead use another module to communicate state. This could be a simple as

# in mainApp
import helper
if something:
  import oneMod as theMod
else:
  import orTheOtherMod as theMod
helper.theMod = theMod

import aModule

# in aModule
import helper.theMod as theMod
theMod.someFunction()

Kent


From mal at egenix.com  Mon Oct 17 17:58:17 2005
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:58:17 +0200
Subject: ANN: eGenix mxODBC Zope Database Adapter 1.0.9
Message-ID: <43541E79.5090906@egenix.com>

________________________________________________________________________
ANNOUNCEMENT

                             EGENIX.COM

                     mxODBC Zope Database Adapter

                            Version 1.0.9

                 Usable with Zope and the Plone CMS.

                Available for Zope 2.3 through 2.8 on
            Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris and FreeBSD

________________________________________________________________________
INTRODUCTION

The eGenix mxODBC Zope Database Adapter allows you to easily connect
your Zope or Plone installation to just about any database backend on
the market today, giving you the reliability of the commercially
supported eGenix product mxODBC and the flexibility of the ODBC
standard as middle-tier architecture.

The mxODBC Zope Database Adapter is highly portable, just like Zope
itself and provides a high performance interface to all your ODBC data
sources, using a single well-supported interface on Windows, Linux,
Mac OS X, Solaris and FreeBSD.

This makes it ideal for deployment in ZEO Clusters and Zope hosting
environments where stability and high performance are a top priority,
establishing an excellent basis and scalable solution for your Plone
CMS.

________________________________________________________________________
NEWS

The new version includes a number of enhancements which make the
mxODBC Zope Database Adapter even more robust and reliable.

The adapter includes a new, more careful connection pool management
and options to adjust the result set size in a more flexible way.

We are very pleased to also include a build for Mac OS X with this
release. This will make connecting your Zope or Plone installation on
Mac OS X to local or remote databases a breeze.

Starting with this release, we will now ship binaries for both Unicode
build variants of Zope: UCS2 and UCS4. Most recent Linux distributions
come pre-built with the UCS4 variant, e.g. SuSE 9 and 10, RedHat 9.

________________________________________________________________________
UPGRADING

If you have already bought mxODBC Zope DA 1.0.x licenses, you can use
these license for the 1.0.9 version as well. There is no need to buy
new licenses. The same is true for evaluation license users.

________________________________________________________________________
MORE INFORMATION

For more information on the mxODBC Zope Database Adapter, licensing
and download instructions, please visit our web-site:

    http://zope.egenix.com/

You can buy mxODBC Zope DA licenses online from the eGenix.com shop at:

    http://shop.egenix.com/

________________________________________________________________________

Thank you,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Oct 17 2005)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 13:12:35 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:12:35 +0200
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow><1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><pan.2005.10.11.21.33.19.546178@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<slrndksub2.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <dim4i5$a3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:

> > Done once, it's usually not unacceptable.
>
> In fact, I can't think of a scenario where it /would/ be unacceptable ;-)

if you're stuck on a system that doesn't use copy-on-write ?

</F>





From jussij at zeusedit.com  Tue Oct  4 20:29:34 2005
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (jussij at zeusedit.com)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 17:29:34 -0700
Subject: ssh or other python editor
In-Reply-To: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128472174.246395.27200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> I'm working/making my python scripts in a windows OS
> with putty now.

If you need an FTP editor take a look at Zeus:

    http://www.zeusedit.com/features.html

Zeus will do SSH, SSL/TLS and plain old FTP editing, with
support for Unix, Windows, VM and MVS FTP servers.

Just remember to setup your host configuration, otherwise
it will default to the FTP protocol.

> But I really want the python text colors and tab
> spacing like the python windows IDE but the problem
> is that I can't find a good program.

Zeus does Python syntax highlighting, code folding, class
browsing, smart indenting, project/workspace management etc
etc.

You can even write Zeus macros in Pyhton :)

Note: Zeus is shareware (45 day trial).

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows



From grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 10:27:56 2005
From: grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 07:27:56 -0700
Subject: TurboGears slashdotted
Message-ID: <1128954476.383270.111250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

"TurboGears: Python on Rails?" post:

http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/05/10/10/0650207.shtml?tid=156



From tsaparas4life at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 11:12:35 2005
From: tsaparas4life at hotmail.com (Nikola)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 08:12:35 -0700
Subject: Installing Python at Work
Message-ID: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm currently learning Python for my own use.
I'm considering installing it on a work laptop, knowing that it is
non-licensed, distributable software.

However, does it access communication ports?  I know the company checks
their ports regularly for activity.

I won't be doing anything very serious; I'm just trying out Python,
learning the basics from 'Learning Python' by O'Reilly.



From uche.ogbuji at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 14:50:11 2005
From: uche.ogbuji at gmail.com (uche.ogbuji at gmail.com)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 11:50:11 -0800
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
In-Reply-To: <1130597464.844648.231940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130491182.405885.49010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130531839.145106.287950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130597464.844648.231940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130701811.740803.233560@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

"Neat, though non-trivial XSLT makes my head spin."

Well, you don't have to know XSLT at all to use the Examplotron
transform, although I can understand wanting to understand and hack
what you're using.

"Just for kicks, I
rewrote in python Michael Kay's DTDGenerator
(http://saxon.sourceforge.net/dtdgen.html), though as the original it
has several limitations on the accuracy of the inferred DTD. "

Ah.  Cool.  Got a link?

--
Uche Ogbuji                               Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net                    http://fourthought.com
http://copia.ogbuji.net                   http://4Suite.org
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/



From chris.lasher at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 15:28:17 2005
From: chris.lasher at gmail.com (Chris Lasher)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 12:28:17 -0700
Subject: Vim capable IDE?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2224.1129656465.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129603486.291175.167860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4354b229$0$21286$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1129644971.811765.105900@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<22a5f.20376$ae.2646@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2224.1129656465.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129663697.620665.99040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks again for your responses, guys. To answer the question,the
features I'd love to see in a Python IDE are:

* First and foremost, Vim editing behavior. Let me keep my fingers on
the homerow. I'm lazy. Point and click and CTRL + SHIFT has its
moments, but text editing is not one of them.

* Graphical symbolic debugger: the course I'm auditing, Software
Carpentry, by Greg Wilson of University of Toronto, devoted a whole
lecture to debuggers. See
http://www.third-bit.com/swc/www/debugging.html . So now I want to try
this crazy thing. I love the idea of being able to watch the values of
variables change in "realtime" as the program runs, from the
convenience of a little side window. I also love the concept of not
having to insert debugging code into the production code--just a click
in the left column and you set the debugging command. Keep the
production code clean by putting the debugging commands outside the
program.

* Source browser: the ability to jump back and forth between specific
blocks of code very quickly, and to see the overall layout of the file
in terms of classes, methods, functions, etc. I want the big picture in
a side window to keep me on task and remind me of how far I've come
when I start feeling bogged down in details.

* Autocompletion: PythonWin by ActiveState has nice autocompletion.
When I import a module, it can dive down into those namespaces and
allow autocompletion on them. That's a nice, productive feature.

* Usage tips/tooltips: Also something I found in PythonWin. During the
writing of the method, a little tip box pops up advising me what the
inputs are for a method or an instance construction for a class. Very
nice, very productive.

* Linux compatibility: Nothing against Microsoft, or Apple, I just like
to use a Linux box more.

It seems like the IDEs I've looked at have most of the features, but
none do Vim. Crazy.

I agree that you can do all your coding using just Vim. That's how I've
been doing it. But following along with Greg Wilson's Software
Carpentry has made me realize that I could be more productive using the
additional, apparently now-standard tools of a good IDE. I just don't
want to sacrifice productivity in in keystrokes. It just seems like a
compromise programmers shouldn't have to make.

the other Chris

Chris Lambacher wrote:
> I would second that.  I use Vim for editing.  I find I don't need an IDE (not
> even for C/C++).  Vim does everything I need.  If I want a debugger I will use
> the shell debugger.  Most other things can be added to Vim, though I tend to
> run with very few plugins.
>
> -Chris
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 05:12:30PM +0000, Ron Adam wrote:
> > What features are you looking for.  I think most Vim users just add what
> > they want to Vim.
> >



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Oct 28 14:42:54 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 19:42:54 +0100
Subject: urllib2 problem
References: <32919.5531704046$1130385306@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <uslulscsx.fsf@pobox.com>

"Jeremy Martin" <Jeremy.Martin at noaa.gov> writes:
[...]
> website. I originally just used urllib.urlopen and everything worked 
> fine on my Windows PC at work. I tried the same script at home on my 
> Fedora COre 3 box using python 2.4, and whenever I try to connect to 
> the site I get the (110, Connection Timed Out) Error.  
> 
> At first I thought my firewall was causing problems with the script but 
> I noticed an odd patten. If the web site asked to accept cookies (like 
> the site I need) the script times out), if I point it to a site that 
> doesnt it works fine. Ive tried several attempts at using urllib2 and 
> the HTTPCookieProccessor and I still have no luck.

If this is just a single server you're talking to, this doesn't
necessarily implicate HTTPCookieProccessor -- it may be that that
server does different stuff depending on whether you return cookies or
not (not much point in having the cookies if not ;-), so the timeout
might be caused by all kinds of unrelated problems.


> Can anyone give me 
> any advice or pointers on what may be the problem here? I apologize if 
> this is kind of a rookie question but Ive been searching for about a 
> week with no luck. 

I'm the author of cookielib and HTTPCookieProccessor.  It's very hard
to guess what's wrong without being able to reproduce the problem.  If
you can send me your script (jjl at pobox.com), I may be able to help.

One point, though.  This doesn't seem to be the problem you are
having, but it's a good thing for this info to be more easily
Google-able for others: Are you using threads?  cookielib is
thread-broken, I suspect (poorly-tested thread support code was left
in when I contributed the module, which was a mistake: I'm almost
certain it's incorrect, and intend to request the thread
synchronisation code be removed in 2.5).  I suspect that could cause
deadlock if you are using threads.  It's probably possible to work
around this, but I reccommend just not using threads (and not only
because of my buggy synchronisation code!).  But as I say, I don't
think this is your problem.


John



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 23:36:40 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:36:40 -0400
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86y85ahs1j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> writes:
> Now that I'm three months into the development of this program, my
> client tells me she would like to protect her investment by preventing
> her employees from doing the same to her.  (Going to the competition
> and using her program.)

First thing to know; you can't stop someone who's sufficiently
determined to run the program. The best you can do is raise the cost
of breaking your security to be more than any value that could be
gained from doing so.

> What my client cannot prevent:
> - access to the .exe
>
> What my client is looking to prevent:
> - running of the exe by un-authorized individuals.

Not quite.

> Ideas I've had to prevent someone from running the app:
> - ask for a password every time the program is run. (I wonder how
> quickly they will complain about this, not very secure once everyone
> eventually finds out what the password is)

If only authorized people have the password, then this works. The
problem is that her employees are probably authorized, but she doesn't
trust them to not take the program to her competition. Which brings
up an alternative goal:

Prevent running of the exe on unauthorized hardware.

> - make a little hardware dongle and check to see if it's on the
> parallel port. (old idea)
> - check for an encrypted flash drive and try to read an encrypted file
> from it. (new idea)
> - buy the client a Microsoft Fingerprint Keyboard and figure out if it
> will make the clients life easier (two minutes of research showed this
> idea has multiple problems)

Note that these three all use the idea of unauthorized hardware, not
people.

You don't need to install special hardware to get that. There are a
number of pieces of hardware that you can find in a modern computer
that may have a unique serial number you can use as a
dongle. Possibilities include a CPU serial number, an HD serial
number, and the MAC address of any network cards: ethernet, wireless,
and apparently FireWire drivers have them. People have used all of
them in the past.

> What I want:
> - the simplest thing that could possibly work!

Telling her "Don't let your employees near the computer with media, or
when it's connect to a network."  That could possibly work, for some
definition of work. You need to define how difficult you want breaking
your security to be. Then we know what "work" means, and can figure
out what "the simplest thing" is.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From pdr14 at comcast.net  Wed Oct 26 20:33:33 2005
From: pdr14 at comcast.net (David)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:33:33 -0400
Subject: help with sending data out the parallel port
Message-ID: <MtCdnSUnmpK_vP3enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>

I'm wondering if python is capable of fairly precise timing and also sending
data out the parallel port.

For example ; making a 7.5 KHz square wave come out of one of the data pins
on the printer port.

I've tried to help myself with this one but searching in the "Python Library
Reference" that installed with my version, [ Python 2.4.1. ]  yielded
nothing on the subject of either timing or parallel port.

Id be thankful for any help.

David  KG2LI




From g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de  Tue Oct 11 11:34:54 2005
From: g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de (g.franzkowiak)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:34:54 +0200
Subject: python interpreter
Message-ID: <digm1h$9si$1@online.de>

Hi everybody,

my interest is for the internals of the Python interpreter.

I've used up to now FORTH for something and this indirect interpreter is
 very smart.
--- ASM ---------------------------------------------------------------

NEXT:   LODSW           ; WA  <- [IP]
                        ; IP  <- IP+2
        MOV     T,WA    ; T   <- WA1 (CFA)
        JMP     [T]     ; JMP [CFA]

--- C -----------------------------------------------------------------

for (;;)
  {
      w = *ip++;
      (**w) ();
   }

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where can I find informations like this for Python ?

gerd


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct  6 15:53:05 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:53:05 -0500
Subject: date reformatting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1627.1128622152.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1627.1128622152.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434580A1.8070103@websafe.com>

There's more than one way, but this one will work for
dates prior to 2000.

import time
datestring='8-15-05'
d=time.strptime(datestring,'%m-%d-%y')
number=10000*d[0]+100*d[1]+d[2]
print number

-Larry Bates

Bell, Kevin wrote:
> Anyone aware of existing code to turn a date string "8-15-05" into the
> number 20050815?
> 
> The dateutil module has a parse method that looks perfect, I downloaded
> and unzipped it, but could figure out how to install it.  I using
> windows XP and py2.4.  
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Kev
> 



From dong.ge.wh at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 11:11:41 2005
From: dong.ge.wh at gmail.com (Gonnasi)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 08:11:41 -0700
Subject: How to processing multi redirect?
Message-ID: <1130339501.262577.230280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I want fetching some articles from nytimes.com for my Palm, and I want
a clear, simple article too, my Palm has only 8M RAM.

With the WGET, I can fetching the page like:
"http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/business/26fed.html?pagewanted=print",
and when WGET works, I can see the URL have been redirect many times.

When I run the below code with Python:
>>> thing = urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler()
>>> opener = urllib2.build_opener(thing)
>>> url = http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/business/26fed.html?pagewanted=print'
>>> page = opener.open(url)

I just get a error message: "HTTP Error 302: The HTTP server returned a
redirect error that would lead to an infinite loop. The last 30x error
message was: Moved Temporarily"

Why I can't fetching the page with python, but WGET can do it?

Thanks for your help in advance!

--
Gonnasi



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 04:26:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:26:54 +0200
Subject: 2D graphics
References: <006a01c5cd73$a91c1450$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>
Message-ID: <did8kf$nov$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Peres" wrote:

> As a Python beginner, I feel a bit lost among all possible libraries...
> so I wondered whether soemone could help me find my way... I
> just need to generate animated sequences of 2D primitives (dots
> and lines), as fast as possible, checking the computer clock for
> the time elapsed for each image, and checking the mouse click.

"animated" as in "animated on screen" ?

all Python GUI toolkits can do that.  which one(s) do you have installed
on your machine?

</F>





From scott.daniels at acm.org  Thu Oct  6 20:01:44 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:01:44 -0700
Subject: Force flushing buffers
In-Reply-To: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4345baa9$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
>         I have a python application that writes a lot of data to a bunch of files
> from inside a loop. Sometimes, the application has to be interrupted and I
> find that a lot of data has not yet been writen (and hence is lost). How do
> I flush the buffer and force python to write the buffers to the files ? I
> intend to put this inside the loop.
> 
> Thanks.
     ...
     files_to_close = []
     try:
        somefile = open(somename, 'w')
        files_to_close.append(somefile)
        ... calculations, probably in a loop ...
     finally:
         for afile in files_to_close:
             afile.close()
     ...

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From rrr at ronadam.com  Fri Oct 21 14:02:35 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:02:35 GMT
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
Message-ID: <%2a6f.162828$xl6.82276@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to 
> store global state information for all instances of a class. These are 
> set by a classmethod as in the following (in reality the setcvar method 
> is more complicated than this!):
> 
> class sup(object):
>     cvar1 = None
>     cvar2 = None
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def setcvar1(cls, val):
>         cls.cvar1 = val
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def setcvar2(cls, val):
>         cls.cvar2 = val
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def printcvars(cls):
>     print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2

How about just using a mutable list?

class sup(object):
    states = [None,None]       # [s1, s2, ...]
    def set_s1(self, val):
        self.states[0] = val
    def get_s1(self):
        return self.states[0]
    def set_s2(self, val):
        self.states[1] = val
    def get_s2(self):
        return self.states[1]

It keeps the states because the list isn't ever reassigned after it's 
created, so the values in it can change and all instances and subclasses 
can see the changed values.

Cheers,
    Ron




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 11:55:12 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:55:12 +0200
Subject: shelve object back to dictionary
References: <c5b438120510060844p6c27e9ffl35600e473333bae1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <di3hd3$gr3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ryan Krauss wrote:

> Is there an easy way to convert a shelved object back to a dictionary?
>  When I save a dictionary using shelve and then load it in a later
> session, I have an object whose property names are the keys of the
> dictionary used as an input to shelve.  For example, instead of
> user['name'] I have user.name.  I would prefer to have the scripts I
> write to analyze the saved data have a similar syntax to the ones I
> used to create it, so I would rather deal with a dictionary after I
> load the shelved data.

session 1:

>>> import shelve
>>> db = shelve.open("foo")
>>> d = {"a": 1, "b": 2}
>>> db["key"] = d
>>> print d
{'a': 1, 'b': 2}
>>> print db["key"]
{'a': 1, 'b': 2}
>>> db.close()

session 2:

>>> import shelve
>>> db = shelve.open("foo")
>>> db["key"]
{'a': 1, 'b': 2}
>>> type(db["key"])
<type 'dict'>
>>> db["key"].key
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute 'key'
>>>

are you sure you're saving dictionaries?  what does "print type(obj)" print
for objects from your shelve?  what does the following print for your data-
base ?

>>> import anydbm
>>> db = anydbm.open("<insert shelve name here>")
>>> db[db.keys()[0]]

</F>





From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 01:41:51 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:41:51 -0400
Subject: piping out binaries properly
References: <o_2dnb6i-uyI69HeRVn-rg@comcast.com>
	<86u0fnwes2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<gZmdnZ8LVpHPDdHeRVn-pg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <86psqbwau8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Andy Leszczynski <leszczynscyATnospam.yahoo.com.nospam> writes:

> Mike Meyer wrote:
>> It's not normal to write binary content to stdout - you normally write
>
> Well, I grew up in the Unix world and it is normal over there.

I watched the Unix world grow up, and it ain't normal to me. I don't
think I've ever written a program that wrote binary data to standard
out, not in nearly 30 years of unix programming. I've written lots of
things whose standard out was designed specifically to be read by
another program, but never as binary data.

> I am still curious which layer adds that 0xd. Is it python, cygwin,
> windows ...

It's Python. You tell Python whether or not it needs to do
platform-dependent newline mangling when you open the file.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mail at tuxipuxi.org  Sat Oct  8 16:25:58 2005
From: mail at tuxipuxi.org (Michael Goettsche)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 22:25:58 +0200
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
In-Reply-To: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510082225.58223.mail@tuxipuxi.org>

On Saturday 08 October 2005 22:10, Xah Lee wrote:
> there is a MacPerl program posted in 1998 that uses Mac's speech synth
> to sing Daisy Bell.
> See:
>
> http://bumppo.net/lists/macperl/1998/11/msg00412.html
>
> can anyone modify it so it runs out of the box on today's OS X?
>
> PS i'm posting this also in python and lisp group, i hope it'd be some
> general interest. For some background of this song, see
>   http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/daisy_bell.html
>
> i'm interested in getting versions that can sing the song in Windows,
> Mac, Linux using whatever speech synth each OS may provide. Thanks.
>
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/

You're asking "tech geekers" and "morons" to do this job? Isn't that a task 
for somebody more professional like you? 


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 23:26:14 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:26:14 +1000
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1739.1128738103.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.03.26.14.393951@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:21:38 -0400, Ivan Shevanski wrote:

> Yes, I realize that. . .Heres another question then. I was trying somehting 
> before so that if the user just pressed enter by accident, it would not 
> accept the input and ask them to put in another. But the thing is I couldnt 
> get it to work. I tryed if choice1 == None it would loop and ask for a new 
> input but that didnt seem to work. . .Any ideas for that?

Test for choice1 == "" (the empty string) instead of None.


-- 
Steven.



From beliavsky at aol.com  Sat Oct  8 08:36:01 2005
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 05:36:01 -0700
Subject: Python 2nd favorite language in Linux Journal poll
References: <1128692292.832209.66860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128701207.508209.231450@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128774961.174013.9620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

beza1e1 wrote:
> Hm, you didn't include a link and my google did not find the final
> results.

I could not find a link, but the results appear on page 88 of the
November 2005 issue of Linux Journal.



From skromta at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 16:26:50 2005
From: skromta at gmail.com (Kalle Anke)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 22:26:50 +0200
Subject: What documentation "standard" to use
Message-ID: <0001HW.BF6A03AA00B1AD5CF0284550@news.individual.de>

I'm confused of how I should document my code, I've always liked being able 
to document my code directly in my source file and then to use some tool to 
extract the documentation to some other format.

My problem with Python is that there are so many tools and formats ... I 
don't know which one I should use. I've tried to figure out if there is one 
that is the "de-facto standard" but ...

Could someone advice me on what format/tool I should use?



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Fri Oct 21 16:30:37 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:30:37 -0500
Subject: Help with language, dev tool selection
In-Reply-To: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <qpmdnW8AVJR00sTeRVn-1Q@comcast.com>

1) Python can do this easily
2) No tools required
3) Don't do it the way you describe.

Here's what I would do:

Load the information that you have in the text file
into a MySQL database (MySQL import has tab delimited
as its default so it is easy) and write a few lines of
PHP to serve up the HTML pages dynamically.  I say PHP
and MySQL because almost every Internet Service
Provider installs those tools for free when you host a
website.  If you are self hosting, use Python to create
the pages dynamically as they are required.  Besides,
it will take you almost as long to upload the 30000
html pages to your webserver as to write this entire
application.

-Larry Bates


vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a problem that I have to solve programmatically and since HTML
> is pretty much the only code I have been exposed to I need an advice on
> how to develop the programmatic solution to the problem I have.
> 
> In the nutshell, it'd be great if you can give me guidance in terms
> of:
> 
> 1)	What programming language to use
> 2)	What development tools to use
> 3)	Tips on how to code the solution
> 
> So, here is my challenge:
> 
> I have a flat text file, 30000 records, each record has two columns,
> the columns are tab separated.
> 
> The file looks like this (approximately)
> 
> Sarajevo	431104-133111
> Mostar		441242-133421
> Zagreb		432322-134423
> 
> 
> The first value is a name of a town, and the second value represent
> longitude-latitude in degrees, minutes and seconds.
> 
> For each record I have to create an html file that will be named as the
> name of the town (i.e. Sarajevo.html). The content of the file will be
> rather simple; in the first row it will contain the header (i.e.
> "This page displays longitude-latitude information") - The second
> row will have the following word: "Grad" - and the third row will
> contain the name of the city and the fourth row will have the
> longitude-latitude info.
> 
> The program also needs to prompt me (before it starts spitting the html
> pages) and ask what test should be entered in line one (I would than
> manually enter "This page displays longitude-latitude information")
> and it also need to prompt me about the text that should be entered in
> line two (I'd go and manually enter "grad").
> 
> I'd greatly appreciate any coment and/or guidance.
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Vasilije Petkovic Vasa
> 


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:27:26 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:27:26 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<11kj8ghonmialfc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <o43rk198ujcqtvccet1blsmfte71vd0gt6@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:04:49 -0000, gordonb.pru8x at burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote or quoted :

>I think one necessary function of email and USENET is that it should
>allow you to SAFELY communicate with strangers or, worse, people
>you know but do not trust at all,

Yes, but with spam ANY communication with an unwanted stranger is a
nuisance.

There are two kinds of stranger:

1. ones you want to talk to
2. ones you don't.

How can you sort people?

1. ones that appear to be trying to sell something

2. ones that others have said were pests.

3. ones you have given temporary/special permission to contact you ---
a code word in a personal ad or newsgroup post.

4. Ones who can convince you of their case in a single sentence.

5. Ones who have a reputation as non-spammers (by some sort of
consumer reports bureau that issues digital ids.)

6. Ones you have rejected in past (aided by digital ids expensive
enough people won't change them like underwear).
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From joe at invalid.address  Sat Oct 15 20:37:31 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 19:37:31 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> joe at invalid.address wrote:
> 
> > John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> > 
> >> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
> >> > news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
> >> > 
> >> >> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing
> >> >> about browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero
> >> >> billion dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to
> >> >> own it?
> >> > 
> >> >     It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
> >> >     applications that work in any browser on any OS threaten to
> >> >     make it irrelevent what OS you're running.
> >> 
> >> And it's even easier to understand that your statement is
> >> nonsense.
> >> 
> >> It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the
> >> Linux kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same
> >> results.  Yet people seem to prefer one distribution over one
> >> other.
> > 
> > He was talking about the browser war, and gave a pretty good
> > reason why it was important. So you respond by pointing out that
> > people choose a linux distribution for personal (non-technical,
> > non-marketing) reasons. I think I missed the connection.
> 
> web based applications that work with any browser make OS irrelevant
> -> not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter which Linux
> distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet people seem to
> make a point of which distribution they use.

A linux distribution isn't an OS, it's a distribution, so I'm not sure
what your point here is.

In fact, there are lots of Microsoft-centric web pages that don't
work well when accessed from a linux system. ActiveX, MS Java, etc.

> >> > MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important
> >> > to be running on one of their OSes.
> >> 
> >> Maybe *they* do have a point :-).
> > 
> > Which is?
> 
> That it *does* matter. It doesn't matter which brand makes your
> graphics card, since most stick close to the reference design of the
> GPU chip supplier, yet people take the brand in consideration when
> they buy.

I don't think that's true, at least not yet. I recently bought a
Compaq Presario, which came with XP installed. I wiped the disk and
installed Linux, only to find that the hardware would only work under
XP. So I then had to install network, video, sound etc cards to get it
working.

joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 17 11:55:14 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:55:14 +0200
Subject: Writing an immutable object in python
In-Reply-To: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rhvr3Fja33iU1@uni-berlin.de>

> The change in the poision occurs becouse int() is an immutable object.
> 
> if I will do the same with a user-defined object, This reference
> manipulating will not happen. So, every entry in the array will refer
> to the same instance.
> 
> Is there a way to bypass it (or perhaps to write a self-defined
> immutable object)?

This has nothing to do with int being mutable or not. It only has to do 
with _list_ being mutable, and of course teh semantics of the

_ * _ : list x int -> list

operator, which simply shallow copies the list. So assigning to some

l[i]


will replace that entry - regardless of what is stored there. And that 
is all you do. The mutablity of an object only comes into place if you 
try and do

l[i].some_mutating_op()

That catches many people by surprise - but you don't do such a thing :)

And besides: making an object immutable would mean that the only way to 
create an instance would be the constructor - rendering the purpose of 
the whole exercise somewhat moot - as then you'd have to call the 
constructor individually for each index you want to alter anyway. Which 
you have to do in the case of mutable objects, too. So - no gain there.

Regards,

Diez


From david at jotax.com  Thu Oct 27 19:38:36 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 16:38:36 -0700
Subject: Counting Threads
In-Reply-To: <N9-dnbE-8qTHtfzeRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
References: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130435796.917475.295830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<N9-dnbE-8qTHtfzeRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130456316.569328.323480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

First time I have used thread locking.  This seems to work but is it
correct?

from threading import Thread, Event, Lock
.
.
.
    def launch(self, ThreadTitle, SubToLaunch, SubsArgs=(),
SubsKwargs={}, AsDaemon=True):
        my_lock = Lock()
        my_lock.acquire()
        try:
            # ---------------------
            t = Thread(target=SubToLaunch, args = SubsArgs, kwargs =
SubsKwargs)
            t.setDaemon(AsDaemon)
            t.start()
            self.Threads[len(self.Threads)] = t           # Stash the
thread in an instance local
            # ---------------------
            ServerThreads.threadcount += 1
        finally:
            my_lock.release()
.
.
.



From gagenellina at softlab.com.ar  Wed Oct 26 08:36:56 2005
From: gagenellina at softlab.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 05:36:56 -0700
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <djnjp2$c19$1@online.de>
References: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djnjp2$c19$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <1130330216.445815.263380@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Benjamin Niemann ha escrito:

> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>
> > I want to convert from pickle format to python source code. That is,
> > given an existing pickle, I want to produce a textual representation
> > which, when evaluated, yields the original object (as if I had
>
> If all objects correctly implement the __repr__ method (true for built-in
> stuff like list, dict, set...):
> Just unpickle it and call repr() on the resulting object.

Unfortunately I need a more general approach...

Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL



From gordonb.e2yfo at burditt.org  Wed Oct 12 19:07:15 2005
From: gordonb.e2yfo at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:07:15 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>
	<7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11kr5p3hstor935@corp.supernews.com>

>However, formatted text is not code. 

HTML is much more than formatted text.

>Pictures are not code.  It is
>unfair to tar them with the brush of JavaScript or the goofy things
>Outlook does with enclosures.

If you take all the dangerous stuff out of HTML, like:
	Links
	Javascript
	Forms
	References to other files

you'd have very little left.  I suggest that for formatted text,
TROFF would be a better start.

					Gordon L. Burditt


From mschreiner at tvpaint.fr  Mon Oct 24 05:10:36 2005
From: mschreiner at tvpaint.fr (Mike)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:10:36 +0200
Subject: several interpreters and suspend script
Message-ID: <435ca50d$0$5371$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hello All,

I'm working ( and a beginner ) with mixing Python scripting and C++.

And I need some little help.  :)
I've searched on the net, but found no answer. So I ask you directly.

Globally, I'd like to do 2 things.

The first, when I'm in the program, I call a script, which call a function 
to open a window.
And when the window is opened the script should stop / wait, until the 
window closes, and then continue.
Does any function exists to do this ?

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    import MyModule

    def ok_cb():
        global w
        MyModule.Warning_All( "closing window" )
        w.Close() #after here, the script should continue

    #create the window
    w = MyModule.cPythonWindow( "win", U"win", 0 )

    #add some buttons, and when we push one, the function ok_cb is called
    w.AddActionButton( "ok", "OK", ok_cb )
    w.AddIntegerButton( "int", "Nb", 2541, ok_cb )

    #open the window
    w.Open() #we should stay here until the callback ends (when we push a 
button) and the window close

    #it should show this message when the window closes and not directly 
after the window is created
    MyModule.Warning_All( "exiting script" )
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The second problem ( which is in relation with the first ) is when we have 2 
non-modal windows, at the same time.
If the 2 scripts stops/are suspended, all the variables in the scripts must 
be totally independent.
So, I'd like that the 2 "spaces" of these scripts are independent.
I wanted to use the Py_NewInterpreter() but it failed in 
PyThreadState_Swap() with this error : "PyFatalError("Invalid thread state 
for this thread");".
So I use 2 dictionaries for each script, but is it sufficient?
What about the call stack ? Where/how is it saved ?

//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    class cPython
    {
    public:
        virtual ~cPython();
        cPython();
    public:
        int Run( const char* iArgs );

        void Module( const char* iModuleName, PyMethodDef* iModuleMethod );
        void Dictionary( const char* iModuleName );

    private:
        PyObject*  mMainModule;
        PyObject*  mGlobalDictionary;
        PyObject*  mLocalDictionary;
    };
    void
    cPython::Module( const char* iModuleName, PyMethodDef* iModuleMethod )
    {
        mMainModule = Py_InitModule( iModuleName, iModuleMethod );
        PyDict_Merge( PyModule_GetDict( mMainModule ), PyModule_GetDict( 
PyImport_AddModule( "__main__" ) ), true );
    }
    void
    cPython::Dictionary( const char* iModuleName )
    {
        mGlobalDictionary = PyDict_Copy( PyModule_GetDict( mMainModule ) );
        PyDict_SetItemString( mGlobalDictionary, iModuleName, mMainModule );

        mLocalDictionary = PyDict_Copy( PyModule_GetDict( mMainModule ) );
    }
    int
    cPython::Run( const char* iArgs )
    {
        PyObject* run_string = PyRun_String( iArgs, Py_file_input, 
mGlobalDictionary, mLocalDictionary );
        Py_XDECREF( run_string );
        return 0;
    }


    cPython pyt;
    pyt.Module( L"MyModule", sgMethods ); //create the module "MyModule"
    InitPythonProject( pyt.Module() );  //add the "class" project in the 
module "MyModule"
    InitPythonLayer( pyt.Module() );  //add the "class" layer in the module 
"MyModule"
    InitPythonWindow( pyt.Module() );  //add the "class" window in the 
module "MyModule"
    pyt.Dictionary( L"MyModule );   //create the 2 dictionary

    pyt.Run( L"MyPath/MyFile.py" );
//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I create more python objects, the dictionaries are different but not the 
module( there is no copy of the module for the next python object ), right?
And can this make problems for globals variables or callstack for each 
suspended script ?

Here, that's all  :)

So, if you have any suggestions ( or even solutions ).

Thanks for reading

Regards




From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 18:16:47 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:16:47 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
>> or quoted :
>>
>>>No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they
>>>would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it
>>>recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML
>>>standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they talk
>>>about W3C *recommendations*.
>>
>> What do you think the Internet is based on?  RFCs.
>
> Yup, I know. Hence no standards.
>
> Like I said: there is ISO HTML, and there is a w3c HTML 4.01
> recommendation. The former is a standard, the latter is a defacto 
> standard.
> For some the difference does matter.

What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support and 
what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both irrelevant. 




From david at jotax.com  Thu Oct 27 13:47:00 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 10:47:00 -0700
Subject: Counting Threads
Message-ID: <1130435220.846203.86320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a thread class and I want to be able to track its usage within
an application.  FYI the class launches aplications in their own thread
when the 'launch' method is called.

That works OK

However I want to take things a bit further and my thinking was that I
could use a class parameter to do a count but I am having no luck I am
afraid.

Its 'GlobalThreadCount' I am trying to get to work.  I may need to use
the globals built in - or do I.

Thanks in advance

David

#--------------------------------------------------------

from threading import Thread, Event

class ServerThreads:
    """
    Wrapper for thread handling.
    Thread ID 0 = Controller
    Thread ID 1 = Plant Object 1
    Thread ID 2 = Plant Object 2
    """

    GlobalThreadCount = 0

    def __init__(self):
        self.Threads = {}

    def launch(self, SubToLaunch, SubsArgs=(),
                 SubsKwargs={}, AsDeamon=True):
        t = Thread(target=SubToLaunch, args = SubsArgs,
                 kwargs = SubsKwargs)
        t.setDaemon(AsDeamon)
        t.start()
        self.Threads[len(self.Threads)] = t
            # Stash the thread in an instance local

        GlobalThreadCount += 1

    def globalusagecount(self):
    """
    Returns a count figure for how many
    threads are running in total
    using this class.
    """
        return GlobalThreadCount


    def stop(self,ThreadID):
        t = self.Threads[ThreadID]
        t.stop()
        self.Threads.clear[ThreadID]

    def count(self):
        """
        Returns alist of how many threads are running
        in the instance
        """
        return len(self.Threads)

    def runningkeys(self):
        """
        Returns a llist of all running Keys
        """
        return self.Threads.keys

    def allOK(self):
        """
        Returns a list of all threads that are down  if any)
        """
        ThreadsDown = []
        for t in self.Threads:
            if not self.Threads[t].isAlive:
                ThreadsDown.append(t)
        return ThreadsDown



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 16 09:52:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:52:54 +0200
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ditlvo$1uj$1@sea.gmane.org>

bonono at gmail.com wrote:

> I initially thought that generator/generator expression is cool (sort of
> like the lazy evaluation in Haskell) until I notice this side effect.
>
> >>>a=(x for x in range(2))
> >>>list(a)
> [1,2]
> >>>list(a)
> []
>
> Would this make generator/generator expression's usage pretty limited ?

nope.

> As when the program/system goes beyond a single module, this behaviour
> can cause subtle bugs ?

sure, in the same way as

    >>> f = open(filename)
    >>> f.read()
    'hello world\n'
    >>> f.read() # oops!
    ''

causes subtle bugs (that is, almost never)

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 12:10:57 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:10:57 +0100
Subject: Modules and Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <02d301c5d58b$b4a50050$0b01a8c0@JELLE>
References: <02d301c5d58b$b4a50050$0b01a8c0@JELLE>
Message-ID: <dj8fie$i84$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jelle Feringa / EZCT Architecture & Design Research wrote:
> ##I'm sorry to stir up such a well discussed topic yet again, but namespaces
> are a point of confusion to me...
> 
> I took the effort of organizing my Python code (scripting a cad program
> calles Rhino) in well defined classes, which would be a terrific thing if I
> didn't got stuck in namespace issues.
> 
> I have a module that launches the application I'm scripting via win32com;
> rhino.load
> 
> from rhino import load
> RS = load.RS
> 
> So the application, with all its methods are now available through the RS
> (RhinoScript) object
> 
> from rhino import SRF # is where things get stuck
> 
> The RS object is the application scripted via COM, where all its method
> reside.
> In my module, SRF, I'm not importing anything, though it refers to the RS
> object all the time.
> Such as:
> 
> class srfBase:
>     '''Base class inherited by the srf* classes, binding general Rhino
> surface functionality to a particular
>     surface generation method'''
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.id   = 'self.id srfBase'
>         pass
>     def isBrep(self):
>         return RS.IsBrep(self.id)
>     def isPointInSurface(self, coord):
>         return RS.IsPointInSurface(self.id, coord)
> 
> 
> How do I make the RS object available to the imported SRF module, such that
> my module code and program code both refer to RS as the application object
> being scripted?
> 
One relatively simple way (though not a perfect solution) is to provide 
a function in the SRF module that allows the caller to provide a 
reference to the RS object, which is then stored as a module global. 
Similar to this:

# Somewhere in SRF's code

RS = None	# This RS is global to the SRF module

def RSreg(rs):
     global RS	# Ensures it isn't treated as function-local
     RS = rs

Then all you have to do is

from rhino import load
RS = load.RS

from rhino import SRF
SRF.RSreg(RS)

and everything inside SRF can refer to RS as a module global quite 
happily. Note that this falls over horribly if you ever want to handle 
several RS objects at the same time. In that case you might be better 
explicitly passing RS references into each function that uses them.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 22:25:53 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:25:53 GMT
Subject: win32api.FindFiles Win2003, problem with Short Name
In-Reply-To: <1129315861.886705.116980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129245942.185252.171220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<p%C3f.17259$U51.14445@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<1129315861.886705.116980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <RMZ3f.18128$U51.13464@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Frank Borell:
> On all three types of PC/Servers they are set to 0.
> 
> For now I'll have to process this script on non 2003 servers?!?

    What do you get if you call win32api.GetShortPathName on the long name?

    Neil


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 10 11:52:23 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:52:23 +0100
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <die2nn$en5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Christian Stapfer wrote:
> "George Sakkis" <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote in message 
> news:1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8 at teranews...
> 
>>"Christian Stapfer" <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>>
>>
>>><ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>try to use set.
>>>
>>>    Sorting the two lists and then extracting
>>>A-B, B-A, A|B, A & B and A ^ B in one single
>>>pass seems to me very likely to be much faster
>>>for large lists.
>>
>>Why don't you implement it, test it and time it
>>to be more convincing about your intuition ?
> 
> 
> The problem is in the generation of the test data.
> Even merely generating a set of (suitably "average",
> "random", and suitably "worst case") datasets might
> turn out to be a major undertaking.
>  If the documentation stated the order-of-magnitude
> behavior of those basic operations up front, then
> I (and *anyone* else who ever wanted to use those
> operations on large lists / large sets) could do
> a quick order-of-magnitude estimation of how
> a certain program design will behave, performance
> wise.
>   *Experimenting* is not necessarily as easy to
> do as you seem to believe. How do you, for example,
> hit upon the worst-case behavior with your test
> data? - Without knowing *anything* about the
> implementation it might a matter sheer luck.
> If you *know* something about the implementation
> then, of course, you might be able to figure it
> out. (But note that if you know *that* much about
> the implementation, you usually have an order-of-
> magnitude estimate anyway and don't need to do
> *any* experimenting in order to answer my question.)
> 
You are, of course, either assuming that there's a single implementation 
of Python, or that all implementations have the same behaviour. Or 
alternatively you are asking all implementers to do what you seem to 
consider so difficult (i.e. identify worst-case scenarios and then 
estimate order-of-magnitude behaviour for them).

Test results with known test data are relatively easy to extrapolate 
from, and if your test data are reasonably representative of live data 
then so will your performance estimates.

Anyway, aren't you more interested in average behaviour than worst-case? 
Most people are.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 14:43:44 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:43:44 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.23.01.46.50.621450@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <djgll0$jq7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.23.01.46.50.621450 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

>>     No, not at all. It is the gravest act of self-contradiction to 
>> maintain
>> that one should be allowed to pursue one's own interest while denying 
>> that
>> same right to others.

> This is perhaps the most ignorant thing I've seen written down by somebody
> educated for a long, long long time. An individual's self-interest may
> very well include theft, murder or rape, to mention just a few examples.

    You are dishonest, lying sack of shit.

    DS




From tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk  Thu Oct  6 05:42:53 2005
From: tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk (tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:42:53 +0100
Subject: Compile as static
Message-ID: <1128591773.4344f19d7b429@webmail.sussex.ac.uk>

Hello List

Has anyone had any luck with this? Im trying to compile python 2.4.2 on
Slackware 10.1 into one large executable. One which contains everything
required to run python (as static). So python doesn't look for
dynamically shared objects like libpthread.so.0.

I have tried ./configure --disable-dynamic
                         --enable-dynamic=NO
                         --enable-static

However the executable size is always the same :/ Please assist.

Thank You

Matt


From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 10:20:25 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 07:20:25 -0700
Subject: subtle side effect of generator/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129470158.623786.135010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2135.1129470856.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129472425.591880.11500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

That is exactly what I meant, in fact. These IO thing are expected to
have side effects so they are not subtle. Generator on the other hand,
is sort of "clever iteratables".

Now that I notice that, Of course I can be sure I would be careful. But
what about the following situation :

I import some function from some third party module which said, "oh, my
function returns a iteratable". Then I can only list(o) if I want to
pass it around or I consume it in only one and only one place. turning
it into a list completely negate what generator is intended
for(generate as much as you need) and using it in only one and only one
place(like your fread example) would IMO means its usage is pretty
limited.

Beside, I can do a fseek to rewind a file handle but not a generator
object.

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>
> > As when the program/system goes beyond a single module, this behaviour
> > can cause subtle bugs ?
>
> sure, in the same way as
>
>     >>> f = open(filename)
>     >>> f.read()
>     'hello world\n'
>     >>> f.read() # oops!
>     ''
> 
> causes subtle bugs (that is, almost never)
> 
> </F>



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 01:03:59 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:03:59 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<7x1x34f85u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <867jcvmz06.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbi8lw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86achrkx8g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> Which brings me to my point. Rather than trying to bandage Python to
>> do what you want - and what, based on this thread, a lot of other
>> people *don't* want - you should be building a system from the ground
>> up to support the kind of B&D environment you want.
> Heh, that goes against the principle that Python is supposed to be
> good for everything.

And where did you run into that principle? I've certainly never heard
it before. It's pretty silly principle, as no language is good for
everything. Python is general-purpose, meaning that it's not limited
to a small set of problem areas, and that it probably won't be to bad
for most uses. But that's not the same thing as being "good" for
everything.

Now, one of Python's strengths is that it can glue other applications
together. So you can, for instance, write your application-specific
code in a language suitable for that problem domain, then wrap those
objects for use in a python interpreter - which is very popular in
scientific circles - and optionally embed the interpeter in your
application so you can invoke scripts as a fundamental part of your
application. This makes it possible to deal with that application area
with Python - but it doesn't mean Python is good for writing code for
that application; just that it's good for wrapping other languages.

     <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From lee at example.com  Fri Oct 28 20:18:10 2005
From: lee at example.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:18:10 GMT
Subject: ? Pythoncard
References: <1130530479.983395.118810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1130534636.368702.277230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6dz8f.669$lg.121@news01.roc.ny>

On 2005-10-28, LenS <lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com> wrote:
> Never mind I figured out my on stupid mistake
>


How about posting a very simple explanation of what
you did wrong and how you fixed it, instead of leaving
the next person who has this problem with a dead end?

Thanks.



From programmer.py at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 13:52:58 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 12:52:58 -0500
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
In-Reply-To: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510071052g798c2434y76af27e9354740be@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 Oct 2005 10:35:22 -0700, GregM <gregm at taming-tech.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've looked at a lot of pages on the net and still can't seem to nail
> this. Would someone more knowledgeable in regular expressions please
> provide some help to point out what I'm doing wrong?
>
> I am trying to see if a web page contains the exact text:
> You have found 0 matches
>
Shouldn't your regular expression be "You have found 0 matches".  If
you're looking for that exact string, then you should use that.

This works for me:

>>> s = "asdfasfdfs You have found 0 matches asdfasdfasdf"
>>> import re
>>> re.search("You have found 0 matches", s)
  <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x00B21800>

ALso, it looks like your pattern is off.  The pattern you use is given below...

SecondarySearchTerm = 'You found (0){1} matches'

However, you state that you are looking for 'You have found 0 matches'

* Notice the 'have' in the string you are searching for and it's
absence in your search term ;)

HTH,
jw


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Oct 18 14:02:53 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 18:02:53 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.01.37.968861@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2A9E6FFF60castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.17.23.16.45.433200@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F2D66F0FE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<3rjvdaFk0l1sU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96F384B9DEF47castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Eike Preuss <mail at eikepreuss.de> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
> [snip]
>> 
>> I see little difference with other big companies. You're right that
>> there is no excuse for such behaviour, but if MS isn't doing it,
>> another company will take their place.
> 
> And if companies are allowed to behave this way (because of your
> 'nice,fatalistic' argument), this will never change.
> Showing companies that you don't excuse such behavior would include
> not buying there products, using other products, whatever. To say that
> they are just playing the evil part that somebody *has* to play, is to
> excuse their behavior, IMO.

If you think you can direct the development of human behaviour by not 
buying a Microsoft product, be my guest. I rather waste my time on other 
things. I think your "this will never change" is wrong, but it certainly 
will not change in my lifetime, and I doubt if this kind of human behaviour 
is going to change in many centuries to come.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 18:47:42 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:47:42 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<MPG.1dc54e32141dced698a5c1@news.verizon.net>
	<MPG.1dc54e80d46d577698a5c2@news.verizon.net>
	<86irvo861u.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djgm8u$k14$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<GHR6f.1428$ki7.48975@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<djgt6m$mj7$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<EVT6f.1507$ki7.59085@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <djh3ue$otu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote in message 
news:EVT6f.1507$ki7.59085 at news20.bellglobal.com...

>>    A right is a scope of authority. That is, a sphere within which one's 
>> decision is sovereign.

> Then why were you claiming that a government can infringe on a person's 
> rights if those rights are not codified or even accepted by those people? 
> The idea of inalienable rights for anyone in a Western society only exists 
> if you believe that the rights of Western societies are inalienable and 
> should be respected everywhere. There is a huge arrogance in that 
> assumption, though, and once you enter a jurisdiction that does not hold 
> your rights to be inalienable they are no longer your rights.
>
> You can have generally agreed upon rights, but as you note, those rights 
> can only be hoped for if the systems exist to enforce them. Once those 
> systems erode, you no longer have rights only hopes. The more you allow 
> those systems to be eroded, the less you can expect your rights to exist.

    This would suggest that rogue governments can't infringe on the rights 
of their people because those people have no rights since their societies 
don't recognize any. This is another principle I reject at its roots. Your 
rights exist whether or not others choose to respect them.

    DS




From matt.walsh at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 01:00:31 2005
From: matt.walsh at gmail.com (MBW)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 22:00:31 -0700
Subject: TK question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2333.1129863057.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129860960.909273.68840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2333.1129863057.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129870831.440710.125870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

thank you very much,
I have one more question that is tk related,  I've use tkfileopendialog
or whatever that name is to select files is there also a dialog for
creating files,  well not really creating them but allowing the same
look and feel as many porgrams give for saving files?  is there also a
way/dialog whereby a user can specify a directory (if the application
wanted to save multiple files into a 'project' folder)

Thanks agian for the quick and accurate response to my first question,
a small follow-up.. is it considered bad style to include main
methods(and if  __name__== "__main__") in all user defined classes, I
realize it's usefulness when testing individual classes.

thanks very much
Matt

Totally aside PyDEV is so much better then trustudio it runs smooth and
isn't such a resource hog..  not to mention free



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 03:10:41 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 07:10:41 GMT
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndjpo62.8ai.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.09.30.11.03.29.346605@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndk1mbh.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-09-30, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:52:50 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Op 2005-09-29, Bill Mill schreef <bill.mill at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> But, if your users can't figure out that they shouldn't be changing
>>> the variable called t._test__i without expecting side effects, what do
>>> you think of the users of your class?
>>>
>>> Python is for consenting adults.
>> 
>> No it is not. Consenting means you had the choice. Python doesn't
>> give you the choice not to consent. 
>
> Damn straight. I used to be a perfectly happy Pascal programmer, until
> Guido and the Timbot kicked down my front door and forced me at gun point
> to start programming in Python.

I don't know about you, but when I hear someone saying, this is to be
used between consenting adults, I don't expect the choice to be limited
between using and not using. Those adults also have to consent on how
to use it.

If you limit this "consenting adults" to using python or not, you
are making my point.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 01:45:01 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 07:45:01 +0200
Subject: Python Debug Build
References: <20051003210217.88812.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dht4t0$29c$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Celine & Dave" wrote:

> What happens if I build Python with debug option
> (--with-pydebug)? Do I see any changes in my program
> output? What is --with-pydebug good for?

from the README:

--with-pydebug:  Enable additional debugging code to help track down
        memory management problems.  This allows printing a list of all
        live objects when the interpreter terminates.

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 14 00:15:04 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:15:04 +0100
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <87r7apknym.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>	<1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1937.1129100649.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129102671.990994.43590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<434CC861.2080805@holdenweb.com>	<434CCFDE.7000409__24352.7919905775$1129107859$gmane$org@holdenweb.com>
	<87r7apknym.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <dinbc6$21b$1@sea.gmane.org>

John J. Lee wrote:
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> [...]
> 
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/urllib2.py", line 996, in do_open
>>     raise URLError(err)
>>urllib2.URLError: <urlopen error (120, 'Operation already in progress')>
>>
>>Looking at that part of the course of urrllib2 we see:
>>
>>         headers["Connection"] = "close"
>>         try:
>>             h.request(req.get_method(), req.get_selector(), req.data, 
>>headers)
>>             r = h.getresponse()
>>         except socket.error, err: # XXX what error?
>>             raise URLError(err)
>>
>>So my conclusion is that there's something in the Cygwin socket module 
>>that causes problems not seen under other platforms.
>>
>>I couldn't find any obviously-related error in the Python bug tracker, 
>>and I have copied this message to the Cygwin list in case someone there 
>>knows what the problem is.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I don't *think* this is related, but just in case:
> 
> http://python.org/sf/1208304
> 
Good catch, John, I suspect this is a possibility so I've added the 
following note:

"""The Windows 2.4.1 build doesn't show this error, but the Cygwin 2.4.1 
build does still have uncollectable objects after a urllib2.urlopen(), 
so there may be a platform dependency here. No 2.4.2 on Cygwin yet, so 
nothing conclusive as lsof isn't available."""

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 30 07:42:52 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:42:52 +1100
Subject: Automatic binding of  **kwargs to variables
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.30.12.42.51.948290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:49:12 -0700, lbolognini at gmail.com wrote:

> I have a very long list of parameters coming from a web form to my
> method foo(self, **kwargs)
> 
> I would like to avoid manually binding the variables to the values
> coming through the **kwargs dictionary,

That's easy: Just Don't Do It.

Instead of some horribly contorted code converting key,item in kwargs into
self.key = item, just do the simple, obvious thing:

self.kwargs = kwargs

and then access the values with self.kwargs[key].

> just to keep the code cleaner,
> I'd like to bind them automatically

If you are worried about excessive use of quotation marks, you can always
define some constants to use:

NAME = 'name'
EMAIL = 'email'
NUM = 'num'

if self.kwargs[NAME]is None:
    self.kwargs[NAME] = "Anonymous"
 

The benefit of this is that when you change your web form to use "number"
instead of "num", you only have to change your code in one place.


-- 
Steven



From bonono at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 21:50:02 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 18:50:02 -0700
Subject: how best to split into singleton and sequence
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2235.1129675000.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2235.1129675000.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129686602.596866.172960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

what you wrote is the most readable to me:

just asign the first 2 element to t, l respectively and forget about
the rest. I assume that is what you want. I think perl may do it this
way.

A solution which I think looks uglier is :

t, l = s.split('|')[:2]

Randy Bush wrote:
> >>> l = []
> >>> s = 'a|b'
> >>> t, l = s.split('|')
> >>> t
> 'a'
> >>> l
> 'b'
> >>> s = 'a|b|c|d'
> >>> t, l = s.split('|')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: too many values to unpack
> >>>
>
> so, i imagine what is happening is the lhs, t,l, is really
> (t, (l)), i.e. only two items.
> 
> so how should i have done this readably and simply?
> 
> randy



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 06:54:24 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:54:24 +0100
Subject: dictionary interface
In-Reply-To: <slrndk7994.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1501.1128503368.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk7994.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <di0bco$8mm$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-05, Steve Holden schreef <steve at holdenweb.com>:
[...]
> 
> Anyway, I have searched the source of the test for all testing
> with regards to < and after some browsing back and fore it seems
> it all boils down to the following two tests.
> 
>    self.assert_(not {} < {})
>    self.assert_(not {1: 2} < {1L: 2L})
> 

So there isn't much to do, then! That's good. Seems you can pretty much 
choose your own ordering.

It would seem sensible to test a third case, namely

     self.assert_(not {1L: 2L} < {1: 2})

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 28 14:43:57 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:43:57 -0400
Subject: Typing tutor help script needed, please
References: <1130507926.729061.125850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <861x25fpn6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Throw" <throw at workmail.co.za> writes:

> G'day everyone!
>
> I would like to design typing tutor exercises for Afrikaans (and other
> languages possibly).  This is for a GPL project.  For this, I need a
> script that can extract words from a long list of words, based on which
> letters those words contain, and write then write output to a file.
> Does anyone know of an existing script for this, or can anyone write me
> one, please?

This sounds nearly trivial in Python. More specifics would help.

> Preferably I must be able to extract words which contain only certain
> letters (they need not contain all of those letters, but they may not
> contain any other letters).  It would be nice if I can also extract
> words which do not contain certain letters.

Again, this sounds nearly trivial in Python.

For instance. to get a list of all words that don't contain 'a', you'd
do something  like:

f = open(textfile)
words = f.read().split()
f.close()
selected = [word for word in words if 'a' not in word]

and then selected has the list of words that don't have an 'a' in
them. Tweaking the test the other way - to select words with an 'a',
remove the 'not'. You can combine the tests with 'and' and 'or'.

But without a UI, that's pretty much useless - and you haven't said
what you want the UI to be.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fphsml at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 17:06:48 2005
From: fphsml at gmail.com (James)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 14:06:48 -0700
Subject: Python Newbie
In-Reply-To: <1128526724.904832.278270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128526724.904832.278270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128546408.526280.138670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

1. What toolkit is best for Windows development?
"Best" depends on your needs. wxPython seems to be the most popular
one.

2. Which toolkits can I exclude from consideration?

You haven't given enough exclusion criteria. But here are the possible
issues to consider.

Fox - Hasn't been updated with a binary release since the release for
Python 2.2.
OpenGL - not a toolkit for everyday windowing needs. But I don't know
what you have in mind.
FLTK - Light Weight but doesn't have a good "MS Windows" feel.
pyQt - Be sure you check if the licensing bothers you.

3. What toolkit is most popular for Windows development?
wxPython seems to be the most popular one for Python, not just on "MS
Windows". I think it has more apps written with, than any other, and
the toolkit has active support for MS Windows specific technologies.

4. Are there any impartial reviews of these packages anywhere?
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/gui.html. Google for others.

I personally prefer not to do Windows GUI development in Python. I
prefer to use mainstream GUI dev tools for windows (Delphi, Visual
Studio) and pull in Python as embedded or as COM. But that's just "my"
preference. A lot of people here do it all in Python happily.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 23:26:32 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:26:32 +1000
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2319.1129827209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.11.05.42.788160@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<861x2dbcwv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.03.26.31.605027@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:54:24 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:

>> The string formatting is two orders of magnitude faster than the
>> concatenation. The speed difference becomes even more obvious when you
>> increase the number of strings being concatenated:
> 
> The test isn't right - the addition test case includes the time to
> convert the number into a char, including taking a modulo.

I wondered if anyone would pick up on that :-)

You are correct, however that only adds a constant amount of time to
the time it takes for each concatenation. That's why I talked about order
of magnitude differences. If you look at the vast increase in time taken
for concatenation when going from 10**5 to 10**6 iterations, that cannot
be blamed on the char conversion.

At least, that's what it looks like to me -- I'm perplexed by the *vast*
increase in speed in your version, far more than I would have predicted
from pulling out the char conversion. I can think of three
possibilities:

(1) Your PC is *hugely* faster than mine;

(2) Your value of x is a lot smaller than I was using (you don't actually
say what x you use); or

(3) You are using a version and/or implementation of Python that has a
different underlying implementation of string concatenation.



> I couldn't resist adding the .join idiom to this test:

[snip code]

>>>> tester(x)
> 0.0551731586456 0.0251281261444 0.0264830589294
>>>> tester(x)
> 0.0585241317749 0.0239250659943 0.0256059169769
>>>> tester(x)
> 0.0544500350952 0.0271301269531 0.0232360363007
>
> The "order of magnitude" now falls to a factor of two. The original
> version of the test on my box also showed an order of magnitude
> difference, so this isn't an implementation difference.

[snip]

>>>> tester(x * 10)
> 1.22272014618 0.252701997757 0.27273607254
>>>> tester(x * 10)
> 1.21779584885 0.255345106125 0.242965936661
>>>> tester(x * 10)
> 1.25092792511 0.311630964279 0.241738080978

Looking just at the improved test of string concatenation, I get times
about 0.02 second for n=10**4. For n=10**5, the time blows out to 2
seconds. For 10**6, it explodes through the roof to about 2800 seconds, or
about 45 minutes, and for 10**7 I'm predicting it would take something of
the order of 500 HOURS.

In other words, yes the char conversion adds some time to the process, but
for large numbers of iterations, it gets swamped by the time taken
repeatedly copying chars over and over again.


-- 
Steven.



From ericwan78 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 17:35:47 2005
From: ericwan78 at yahoo.com (wanwan)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:35:47 -0700
Subject: confusion between global names and instantiated object variable
	names
In-Reply-To: <wz1x2nyewj.fsf@ordesa.local>
References: <1129322411.776202.314290@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<wz1x2nyewj.fsf@ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <1129325747.113619.23630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

oops, of course.

Very careless mistake.

thx



From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Mon Oct 31 05:16:41 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:16:41 +1100
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.14.445842@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<4363fdd4$0$2107$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <4365EF09.7020709@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

David Rasmussen wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:22:11 -0700, pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Which is quite fast. The only problems is that the file might be huge.
>>
>>
>> What *you* call huge and what *Python* calls huge may be very different
>> indeed. What are you calling huge?
>>
> 
> I'm not saying that it is too big for Python. I am saying that it is too 
> big for the systems it is going to run on. These files can be 22 MB or 5 
> GB or ..., depending on the situation. It might not be okay to run a 
> tool that claims that much memory, even if it is available.

If your files can reach multiple gigabytes, you will 
definitely need an algorithm that avoids reading the 
entire file into memory at once.


[snip]

> print file("filename", "rb").count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")
> 
> (or something like that)
> 
> instead of the original
> 
> print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")
> 
> it would be exactly what I am after. 

I think I can say, without risk of contradiction, that 
there is no built-in method to do that.


 > What is the conceptual difference?
> The first solution should be at least as fast as the second. I have to 
> read and compare the characters anyway. I just don't need to store them 
> in a string. In essence, I should be able to use the "count occurences" 
> functionality on more things, such as a file, or even better, a file 
> read through a buffer with a size specified by me.

Of course, if you feel like coding the algorithm and 
submitting it to be included in the next release of 
Python... :-)


I can't help feeling that a generator with a buffer is 
the way to go, but I just can't *quite* deal with the 
case where the pattern overlaps the boundary... it is 
very annoying.

But not half as annoying as it must be to you :-)

However, there may be a simpler solution *fingers 
crossed* -- you are searching for a sub-string 
"\x00\x00\x01\x00", which is hex 0x100. Surely you 
don't want any old substring of "\x00\x00\x01\x00", but 
only the ones which align on word boundaries?

So "ABCD\x00\x00\x01\x00" would match (in hex, it is 
0x41424344 0x100), but "AB\x00\x00\x01\x00CD" should 
not, because that is 0x41420000 0x1004344 in hex.

If that is the case, your problem is simpler: you don't 
have to worry about the pattern crossing a boundary, so 
long as your buffer is a multiple of four bytes.



-- 
Steven.



From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 14:08:55 2005
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (B Mahoney)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 11:08:55 -0700
Subject: Understanding the arguments for SubElement factory in ElementTree
References: <1130567974.754511.66930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130609335.112602.322180@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Your SubElement call is lacking the attrib argument, but you can't set
text, anyway.

The elementtree source makes it clear, you can only set element attrib
attributes
with SubElement

def SubElement(parent, tag, attrib={}, **extra):
    attrib = attrib.copy()
    attrib.update(extra)
    element = parent.makeelement(tag, attrib)
    parent.append(element)
    return element



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 20:34:06 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:34:06 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:12:46 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>Suppose I wanted to gather industrial espionage about, oh, say Roedy
>Green. If my virus could impersonate him, I could tell everyone in sight
>that his email has changed to rgreen at mydomain.ru (or wherever). I would
>harvest his email

I would say by extrapolating the problem of spam and snooping that the
next level of email software needs to concentrate on the following:

1. routine and transparent encryption.

2. making spam no longer economic.  Blocking all spam is, even in
theory, impossible.  I sometimes read a message and am ambivalent
myself about whether I wanted to read or receive it.  The key is to
provide efficient, transparent spam solutions.  They can be layered to
filter higher and higher percentages of mail depending on how big your
spam problem is.

3. prevent phishing.  When PayPal sends you an email, you want to know
for sure it really is from PayPal.  This means corporate users at
least will all have digital ids, and all emails will be digitally
signed.

4. status tracking. Unless blocked by the receiver, the sender knows
if his message has been receiveived/read.

5. making it impossible for any incoming email to mount any sort of
attack. the only parts the email software processes are the data
parts. Any enclosed programs must be explicitly installed. The email
software would warn if any code were not digitally signed with proper
certificate to identify the author.

Especially with spam, there are no perfect solutions, but at least we
could do many times better than what we are living with and put the
spammers out of business.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 19 04:46:37 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:46:37 +0100
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <3rlj78Fjsu7mU1@individual.net>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org><3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>	<mailman.2128.1129455388.509.python-list@python.org><3rg3aiFjgc47U1@individual.net>	<mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3rlj78Fjsu7mU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <dj515c$k24$1@sea.gmane.org>

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:mailman.2143.1129532422.509.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>Claudio Grondi wrote:
[...]
>>>>>Do I miss here something?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>While you are correct in saying (I paraphrase) that HTML interfaces
>>>>nowadays can offer a rich graphical interface, it can be quite difficult
>>>>to manage state maintenance between the two components (web server, web
>>>>client) in the system.
>>>
>>>
>>>The cause of confusion here is, that HTML interfaces don't necessary
> 
> need a
> 
>>>web server and HTTP to work. I mean, that Internet Browsers
>>>have an API which allow access to them directly, so they can be used
> 
> without
> 
>>>a server as a kind of GUI library supporting widgets programmed
>>>in HTML and JavaScript  (I haven't used them yet in this form, but I
> 
> think
> 
>>>it should be no problem - right or not?).
>>>
>>
>>You are perfectly correct that interfaces can be programmed in the
>>browser. As has already been said, with the adoption of standards like
>>CSS2, it's even possible to make such stuff run across multiple browser
>>platforms (at the moment, though, just try writing an interface that
>>makes table rows appear and disappear in a cross-browser fashion: you'll
>>find the stylesheet techniques you need to use for Mozilla and IE are
>>very different). But this doesn't help you at all if you are trying to
>>interface to Python logic.
>>
>>>>A "proper" GUI runs all functionality inside a single process, and
>>>>allows much easier control over complex interactions, creation of
>>>>dynamic dialogues, and so on.
>>>
>>>Complex and dynamic is in my eyes possible with HTML and JavaScript, so
> 
> I
> 
>>>still don't see where is a problem with this approach. I have programmed
>>>already a HTML and JavaScript driven server platform and know about (the
>>>solvable) problems with the back-button and sessions (it is sure not the
>>>easiest way of programming a GUI).
>>>The only disadvantage of not using plugins or Java is, that real time
>>>interactions are not possible, but this is in my eyes usually not the
>>>requirement for a standard kind of GUI with no gaming, no Virtual
> 
> Reality
> 
>>>and no timing of user response down to milliseconds (but consider, that
> 
> with
> 
>>>a good speed of connection it is even possible to play blitz chess over
> 
> the
> 
>>>Internet).
>>>
>>
>>So, back to the subject: with an HTML/Javascript interface, how do you
>>propose to bolt Python logic into the same process? Or do you admit that
>>the application that interacts with such an interface either has to be
>>all JavaScript or in a separate process?
> 
> I haven't used it in such configuration yet, but I mean, that it is not a
> bad idea to use local DHTML files (i.e. HTML with JavaScript) combined with
> a Python driven HTTP server like e.g. Karrigell which makes it possible to
> access local files by executing Python scripts triggerred by demand raised
> by submitting to it DHTML form data resulting from user input.
> So mixing JavaScript in local DHTML files for performing what can be done
> with JavaScript inside HTML and a HTTP server capable of executing Python
> scripts will do the job which JavaScript alone can't because of lack of
> access to the local file system and another parts of the computer system on
> which such kind of UI is executed.

Indeed. But this again partitions the problem into client functionality 
and server functionality residing in two separate processes, albeit on 
the same computer, with the previously-mentioned state maintenance 
problems. This issue isn't new, you know.

> Another possible scenario I have in mind is to control the Internet browser
> directly from a Python script using DHTML as a language for definition of
> appearance and specification of necessary data processing of in the browser
> displayed UI. This way the Internet browser and HTML with JavaScript can be
> considered an UI toolkit for use in Python.
> Hope with this above to have got Python back on topic.
> 
That is, I suppose, a possibility, but you certainly can't claim it 
would be platform-independent. Unless you know of some common control 
interface respected by both Internet Exploder and Firefox ;-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Mon Oct 10 15:45:17 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:45:17 GMT
Subject: how to capture key pressing
References: <stz2f.22845$133.7103@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <hxz2f.353$tV6.127@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>

Hi,

Look at curses.

Philippe


billie wrote:

> Hi all. I'm searching for a module that permit me to costantly log every
> key pressed on the keyboard and eventually assign it a function (e.g. when
> "esc" is pressed: exit program").



From cowie.rob at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 21:51:25 2005
From: cowie.rob at gmail.com (Rob Cowie)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 18:51:25 -0700
Subject: GUI on Macintosh
In-Reply-To: <1128717512.502956.45170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128717512.502956.45170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128736285.368230.228340@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

FYI... the preinstalled python distributed with OS X 10.4 includes the
Tk and wxPython GUI frameworks. I am unaware of how to get either of
these installed on OS 9.



From johnww at worldpath.net  Sat Oct 15 11:55:14 2005
From: johnww at worldpath.net (John Wingate)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:55:14 -0000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <11l29j29rq4jh18@corp.supernews.com>

Peter T. Breuer <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
>> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
>> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
>> mainframe terminals.
> 
> Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
> at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
> running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.

Peter, if you are serious, and not just pulling our legs, your memory is
failing.  MS-DOS 1.0 came out in August 1981; SunOS 3.0 in February 1986.
Sun Microsystems was incorporated (with four employees) in February 1982.
There never was a SunOS 3.8.  (SunOS 3.5 was succeeded by 4.0.)  And I'm
not sure what you mean by "Sun 360"--a Sun 3/60, maybe?

-- 
John Wingate                        Mathematics is the art which teaches
johnww at worldpath.net                one how not to make calculations.
                                                         --Oscar Chisini


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct 15 04:54:56 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:54:56 +0200
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2104.1129352608.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86u0fjs47c.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1h4gzkw.1mkaqo31e2d5w7N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
   ...
> A third alternative is to split once, then split the substrings a
> second time and stitch the results back together:
> 
> >>> sum([x.split('_') for x in mystr.split()], [])
> ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']
> 
> Which is probably slow. To bad extend doesn't take multiple arguments.

Using sum on lists is DEFINITELY slow -- avoid it like the plague.

If you have a list of lists LOL, DON'T use sum(LOL, []), but rather

[x for x in y for y in LOL]


Alex


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 08:46:27 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 05:46:27 -0700
Subject: Swig and Python
Message-ID: <1128429987.357140.111280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to wrap some C code I have.  Currently I have something
like...

defs.h
-----------
typedef unsigned long MY_DIGIT;

myapp.c
-------------
void MakeDigits(MY_DIGIT digits[]) {
    ....
}

char* GetString(char *inMessage, MY_DIGIT *digit) {
    char *results;
    ...
    ...
    return results;
}


...ok so my interface for swig looks like..

%module MyApp
%{
    #include "math.h"
%}

extern void MakeDigits(MY_DIGIT digits[]);
extern char* GetString(char *inMessage, MY_DIGIT *digit);

%include "cpointer.i"
%pointer_functions(MY_DIGIT, digit_array);

%include "cmalloc.i"
%malloc(int);
%free(int);

...Ok, so I have a couple questions.
1)  How would I call MakeDigits from python?  In the C code I would
normally have something like...
        MY_DIGIT tmp[10];
        MakeDigits(tmp);

2)  How would I call GetString?  Again, in C I would have...
        char *ptr;
        char msg[100] = "Hello World";
        MY_DIGIT x = 98;
        ptr = GetString(msg, x);

3) Did I define MY_DIGIT correctly in my SWIG interface file?

4) If I try the following Python code...
        x = new_digit_array()
        print x
   then Python.exe dies...any idea?

thanks for the help.  I am trying to find my answers int he SWIG
docs...either i haven't found it or I didn't understand when I came
across it.

thanks in the mean time.



From shawn.kelley at oracle.com  Thu Oct 20 17:46:08 2005
From: shawn.kelley at oracle.com (Shawn Kelley)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:46:08 -0500
Subject: network installations
Message-ID: <43581020.2020502@oracle.com>

Hi All -

I am working on a project that requires Python be installed on multiple 
Windows servers.  I was wondering if anyone knew of a 
method/utility/script that can push the installation of Python to 
multiple networked servers from a centralized location.

Thanks in advance!

-shawn
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From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Mon Oct 17 23:11:24 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:11:24 GMT
Subject: Stripping ASCII codes when parsing
References: <mailman.2178.1129571437.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-F61EFA.23113517102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <mailman.2178.1129571437.509.python-list at python.org>,
 David Pratt <fairwinds at eastlink.ca> wrote:

> This is very nice :-)  Thank you Tony.  I think this will be the way to  
> go.  My concern ATM is where it will be best to unicode. The data after  
> this will go into dict and a few processes and into database. Because  
> input source if not explicit encoding, I will have to assume ISO-8859-1  
> I believe but could well be cp1252 for most part ( because it says no  
> ASCII (0-30) but alright ASCII chars 128-254) and because most are  
> Windows users.  Am thinking to unicode after stripping these characters  
> and validating text, then unicoding (utf-8) so it is unicode in dict.  
> Then when I perform these other processes it should be uniform and then  
> it will go into database as unicode.  I think this should be ok.

Definitely "".translate() then unicode().  See the docs for 
"".translate().  As far as charset, well, if you can't know in advance 
you'll want to have some way to configure it for when it's wrong.  Also, 
maybe 255 is not allowed and should be checked for?
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 31 09:36:29 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:36:29 +0100
Subject: Tkinter problem
References: <1130761580.552145.167340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk5a5d$78t$1@sea.gmane.org>

"dale cooper" wrote:

> I've recently installed python2.4.2 on Fedora 4 (from downloaded
> sources), but it appeared, that I can't use Tkinter module:
>
>>>> import Tkinter
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
>    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured
> for Tk
> ImportError: libBLT24.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file
> or directory

this seems to indicate that the build process picked up the Tk BLT extension [1],
but that you haven't installed that extension properly.

</F>

1) http://sourceforge.net/projects/blt/





From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 28 14:56:01 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:56:01 -0400
Subject: OEM character set issue
In-Reply-To: <bil4m1tsebnorgnkjvk3kb99qe895hdt50@4ax.com>
References: <1130507709.2923814103422110fb7a08568f0eb060@meganetnews2>
	<bil4m1tsebnorgnkjvk3kb99qe895hdt50@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43627216$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:55:56 +0200, "Ladv?nszky K?roly" <aa at bb.cc>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> 
>>On my hungarian Win2k, some of the accented characters of the file names
>>appear incorrectly when Python is driven from the command line. However,
>>they
> 
> 
> 	The "MS-DOS" command window tends to use a different character
> encoding than full "Windows" widgets.

You can chaneg the encoding used by the command window with the chcp command.

Kent


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Oct  7 12:53:42 2005
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:53:42 -0400
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
In-Reply-To: <1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4346A816.4080603@rogers.com>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

>Ok, that one looks more sleak than what I came up with.
>
>Couple of things I learn from your solution, please correct me if I
>misunderstood something:
>
>1. list containing other lists will sort itself based on first element
>on lists inside ?
>  
>
Correct, comparison is recursive for lists/tuples.

>2. sort(), pop() is not costly operations
>  
>
They *can* be costly, but the algorithm reduces the number of times they 
are called to less-than-linear for all but pathological cases (i.e. they 
are only called when you need to switch streams).  It also only requires 
sorting only the number of streams, rather than the whole set.

>Other than that you seem to not use the cmp operator but that's easily
>fixed.
>  
>
Sorry about that, revised version below:

def firstIter( value ):
    it = iter( value )
    try:
        return it.next(), it
    except StopIteration, err:
        return None, None

def cmpFirstWith( comparison ):
    def compare( a,b ):
        return comparison(a[0],b[0])
    return compare

def inorder( comparison, *args ):
    iterators = [
        [value,it]
        for (value,it) in [ firstIter( arg ) for arg in args ]
        if it is not None
    ]
    iterators.sort()
    while iterators:
        yield iterators[0][0]
        try:
            value = iterators[0][0] = iterators[0][1].next()
        except StopIteration, err:
            iterators.pop(0)
        else:
            if len(iterators) > 1 and comparison( value, 
iterators[1][0]) == 1:
                iterators.sort( cmpFirstWith( comparison ) )
                continue

if __name__ == "__main__":
    s1 = [10, 20, 30, 40, 50]
    s2 = [15, 25]
    s3 = [17, 27, 37]
    s4 = []
    for value in inorder(cmp, s1, s2, s3, s4):
        print value
    s1 = [{'a':'b'}, {'a':'e'}]
    s2 = [{'a':'d'}, {'a':'z'}]
    def comp( a,b ):
        return cmp( a['a'],b['a'])
    for value in inorder(cmp, s1, s2 ):
        print value

Have fun,
Mike

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com  Tue Oct 25 05:04:08 2005
From: frithiof.jensen at die_spammer_die.ericsson.com (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:04:08 +0200
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2486.1130167209.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djkse8$q1i$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se>


"Joerg Schuster" <joerg.schuster at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130225565.592108.197670 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know,
> I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems.
> --Jamie Zawinski

Thanks for the citation.

If my goal had been to redesign my program, I would not ask questions
about regular expressions. I do not have the time to redesign my
program. And knowing that my situation would be better, if I had
written other code in the past, does not help me at all.

Experience shows that, in any project, there is always time redo what was
not made properly the first time a deadline was dreamed up.

I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups. If someone told me
that it is very unlikely for Python to get rid of the said limitation,
I would recode part of my program in C++ using pcre.

See!? There *is* Time.





From anil.pundoor at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 03:27:08 2005
From: anil.pundoor at gmail.com (anil.pundoor at gmail.com)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 00:27:08 -0700
Subject: bwidget problem
Message-ID: <1128324428.810654.157880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

hi
i tried installing the bwidget lib . but
while running the demo script am getting following error.

python sam.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "sam.py", line 1, in ?
    import bwidget, Tkinter, sys, os
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 149, in ?
    class _Frame:
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 152, in _Frame
    getframe = makeswidget(getframe, Tkinter.Frame)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 74, in makeswidget
    return _wrap(w, f)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 59, in _wrap
    oldfunc.func_name, wrapper.func_defaults, wrapper.func_closure)
TypeError: function() takes at most 4 arguments (5 given)

can u plz help me



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 03:58:36 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:58:36 +0200
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
References: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhtcnc$l68$1@sea.gmane.org>

Amir Michail wrote:

> Is there an easy way to execute a python cgi script on a different
> machine from the cgi server?

    http://www.google.com/search?q=reverse+proxy

</F> 





From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 16:41:37 2005
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:41:37 -0600
Subject: Class property
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1611.1128607770.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>	<mailman.1595.1128589518.509.python-list@python.org>	<di2qp1$bor$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.1611.1128607770.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Tf6dne5b94TivtHeRVn-gw@comcast.com>

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> class A(object):
>    cnt = 0
>    a_cnt = 0
>    def __init__(self):
>        A.cnt += 1
>        if self.__class__ is A:
>            A.a_cnt += 1
>           class B(A):
>    pass
>   print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 0,0
> b = B()
> print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 1,0
> a = A()
> print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 2,1
> 
> But then, I may want to create read-only class property that returns the 
> cnt/a_cnt ratio.
> This now cannot be implemented with a metaclass, because the metaclass 
> cannot operate on the class attributes:

Huh?  Every function in the metaclass takes the class object as the 
first parameter.  So they can all operate on the class attributes:

py> class A(object):
...     cnt = 0
...     a_cnt = 0
...     def __init__(self):
...         A.cnt += 1
...         if self.__class__ is A:
...             A.a_cnt += 1
...     class __metaclass__(type):
...         @property
...         def ratio(cls):
...             return cls.a_cnt/float(cls.cnt)
...
py> class B(A):
...     pass
...
py> A.cnt, A.a_cnt
(0, 0)
py> A.ratio
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
   File "<interactive input>", line 11, in ratio
ZeroDivisionError: float division
py> b = B()
py> A.cnt, A.a_cnt, A.ratio
(1, 0, 0.0)
py> a = A()
py> A.cnt, A.a_cnt, A.ratio
(2, 1, 0.5)

STeVe


From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sat Oct 29 17:42:23 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:42:23 GMT
Subject: Any Pythonic GTK Undo library?
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-62BA42.13375929102005@news.verizon.net>
	<slrndm7gku.e68.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-C26D19.17423729102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <slrndm7gku.e68.davecook at localhost.localdomain>,
 Dave Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote:

> On 2005-10-29, Tony Nelson <*firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com> wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking for a "pythonic" GTK Undo library/class.  It would have a 
> 
> You might ask the authors of Kiwi if they plan to add undo/redo.  Or help
> them add it if you can.
> 
> http://www.async.com.br/projects/kiwi/
> 

Well, after I implement it myself, if I do, I could give them the code 
to port to kiwi.


> It would be great to have this feature in the Gtk C API, though.  I do see
> some relevant bugzilla entries:
> 
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=316551
> 
> You might want to make a new request for a general undo/redo interface.

Well, after I implement it myself, if I do, I could give them the code 
to translate to C.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Tue Oct 11 11:17:32 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:17:32 -0500
Subject: how to execute .exe file ?
In-Reply-To: <1129040197.719729.22460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129040197.719729.22460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434BD78C.9030900@websafe.com>

There are several ways.  The easiest is to use
os.system('program.exe')

If you require more control on the output, etc.
take a look at popen and the new subprocess modules.

A more complex method that is mostly for Windows GUI applications
and allows finer grain control over window size, environment, etc.
is the win32process.CreateProcess module which is part of the
win32 extensions by Mark Hammond.  This requires a bit more work,
but gives you control over almost every aspect of a Windows GUI
application window at startup.

-Larry Bates

quiteblack at gmail.com wrote:
> hi all~
> 
> i used to drive .exe file working by writing a simple batch file, i
> thin python may do this as well bu i dunno how to, any help ?
> 


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct 20 20:34:02 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:34:02 -0500
Subject: nested escape chars in a shell command
In-Reply-To: <1129841626.103053.104800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129666159.791998.134880@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj4tn0$qgt$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
	<1129841626.103053.104800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051021003402.GA16725@unpythonic.net>

I think you're mistaken about how 'sh -c' works.  The next argument after "-c" is
the script, and following arguments are the positional arguments. (what, you've
never used -c in conjunction with positional arguments?  me either!)

Example:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ /bin/sh -c 'echo $#' a b c

# i.e., a blank line
$ /bin/sh -c 'echo $# 0=$0 1=$1 2=$2' a b c
2 0=a 1=b 2=c
# i.e., a, b, c went to positional arguments
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additionally, unless pexpect.spawn behaves differently than os.spawnv,
"-c" is actually going to /bin/sh's argv[0], and you end up trying to execute
/usr/bin/ssh as a shell script, which is probably not what you want!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
def shellquote(arg):
    # shell quoting technique I first read about on the 'git' development list
    # Everything is safely quoted inside a ''-quoted string, except a ' itself,
    # which can be written as '\'' (a backslash-escaped ' outside of the ''-quoted
    # string)
    return "'" + arg.replace("'", "'\\''") + "'"

def shellquotelist(args):
    return " ".join([shellquote(arg) for arg in args])

# XXX: you may wish to assemle 'command' using shellquotelist too
command1 = shellquotelist(['/bin/sh', '-c','/usr/bin/ssh','-t','-o',
			'StrictHostKeyChecking no',host,command])
command2 = shellquotelist(['awk','{print %s:$0}'%host])

child = \
    pexpect.spawn('/bin/sh',
	args=['/bin/sh', '-c', command1 + "|" + command2],
	timeout=30)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, in your case the use of awk would seem to be gratuitous.  Instead,
prepend the hostname to each line when you read the lines in.  (this could easy
or hard depending on the structure of the code where you read the output
generated by child---if you do it with readline() or by iterating over the file,
it is probably easy)

Jeff
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From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 21 13:20:58 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:20:58 -0400
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> On 2005-10-21, Christian <christian at spam.not> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The closest thing you can do is that:
>>> 
>>> -myScript.py--------------------------------------
>>> print 'export MY_VARIABLE=value'
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> -myScript.sh--------------------------------------
>>> python myScript.py > /tmp/chgvars.sh
>>> . /tmp/chgvars.sh
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Bullshit.  Are people being intentionally misleading??

No. Are you being intentionally - never mind.

> And even Google knows the correct answer
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=python+set+environment+variable
>
> Follow the first hit.

The first hit is basically the solution presented above translated
from Unix to Windows: your python script writes the appropriate shell
commands into a file, then you get the command processor to process
that file. The Windows version carries this a step further by wrapping
it all up in a script to make it easy to run, but that's the only real
difference. Maybe the results order has changed since you looked?

Watch the recipe - I may add a Unix/sh solution.

      <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Oct 19 23:24:17 2005
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:24:17 -0600
Subject: destroy your self????
In-Reply-To: <1129778080.444432.115690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2285.1129777502.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129778080.444432.115690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43570DE1.7050701@pythonapocrypha.com>

KraftDiner wrote:
> Well I guess what I'm trying to achive is the invalidate the instance
> of the object.
> I have been using None to denote an invalide or uninitialized instance
> of an object.
> 
> There is a degenerate case in my code where a polygon has less than 3
> points and
> I want to class to flag this instance of the object as invalid.
> 
> so.. like super.self = None  :)
> 

In Python, variables don't "hold" values - variables are just named references 
to objects:

x = 5 # x refers to the 5 integer object
x = 'hi' # now x refers to the string object

By reassigning a name to something else, that's all you're doing - ever other 
reference to that object will still be intact.

If you were able to flag the degenerate case, code that uses the object would 
have to check for it, right? That being the case, the same code could just as 
easily test a member function.

Better yet, if you can catch this case at the point when the object is created, 
just throw an exception or at least perform the test at that point only.


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  4 10:40:32 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:40:32 +0200
Subject: email module, redirecting to stdout
References: <mailman.1441.1128434737.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhu2vh$ivo$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<just-A2314F.16250404102005@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <dhu48f$phf$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Just wrote:

>> smtplib obtains a copy of stderr by
>> from sys import stderr

> Ouch. I'd consider this a bug. "from sys import stderr" should at least
> be considered bad style.
 
I'd rather say this is the low-tech equivalent to

debug = logging.getLogger("smtplib").debug

an approach which is currently only taken by the cookielib module.

Peter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  4 17:11:15 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:11:15 -0500
Subject: how to get any available port
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041432020.2298-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <20051004211115.GC29124@unpythonic.net>

Apparently, calling bind() with a zero "port" will choose some available port
number, as demonstrated by this program:

import socket
s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.bind(("", 0))
print s.getsockname()

Here's how it behaved over several runs:
$ python soc.py 
('0.0.0.0', 34205)
$ python soc.py 
('0.0.0.0', 34206)
$ python soc.py 
('0.0.0.0', 34207)

I don't know for sure whether this is standard behavior for sockets, or whether
it's a special behavior of linux.

Jeff
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From spam at flash-gordon.me.uk  Wed Oct 12 18:58:25 2005
From: spam at flash-gordon.me.uk (Flash Gordon)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:58:25 +0100
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <hr3rk1dpd6g300n88ga9j4ok6b7jjccdqc@4ax.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<036lk15rkocgpjjlbdl11vsr82tkrc4bmn@4ax.com>
	<hr3rk1dpd6g300n88ga9j4ok6b7jjccdqc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <h1h023x8a4.ln2@news.flash-gordon.me.uk>

Roedy Green wrote:

<snip stuff off topic for comp.lang.c>

Can all of you please take comp.lang.c out of this thread (and all its 
sub-threads, since it is totaly off topic and NONE of the people on this 
thread are posting to anything else on comp.lang.c so I doubt any of you 
are reading it here.
-- 
Flash Gordon
Living in interesting times.
Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 13 11:08:24 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:08:24 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
	<86r7aqugmk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<iitrk1dmcr1eoiei7tuqrels1c86du7dn5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86irw1v4if.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:32:03 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>>That won't prevent phishing, that will just raise the threshhold a
>>little. The first hurdle you have to get past is that most mail agents
>>want to show a human name, not some random collection of symbols that
>>map to a unique address. Even if you do that, most readers aren't
>>going to pay attention to said random collection of symbols. Given
>>that, there are *lots* of tricks that can be used to disguise the
>>signed name, most of which phishers are already using. How many people
>>do you think will really notice that mail from "John Bath, PayPal
>>Customer Service Representative" (john.barth at paypa1.com) isn't really
>>from paypal?
>
> I think it better than you imagine.  
>
> First of all Mr. Phish will come in as a new communicant begging an
> audience. That is your first big clue. PayPal is already allowed in.

That's your first big clue. You've got two problems, though.

1) An as yet unspecified mechanism that magically approves everyone
   that you want to talk to. That's a big lump to swallow. It's also
   not an easy problem - all existing mechanisms for approving people
   require constant attention. Casual users aren't going to put up
   with that.

2) What makes you think your average user will realize this? It only
   takes a few percent to make it worth the phishers time.

> Next if Thawte issues certs, they won't allow Phish names such as
> Paypol.com just as now for other certs.

So they'll do what their web sites do now, and sign their own certs.

> Mr. Phish is coming in on a different account. 

Different from what? And how does the user get told about this, and
what will make them care?

> Next Mr. Phish had to present his passport etc when he got his Thawte
> ID.  Now Interpol has a much better handle on putting him in jail.

Not if he didn't have to go to Thawte.

    <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From gene.tani at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 07:05:52 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 04:05:52 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1129801104.502548.300340@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129801104.502548.300340@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129806352.731422.183700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

http://blog.ianbicking.org/ruby-python-power.html
http://www.ruby-doc.org/RubyEyeForThePythonGuy.html
http://onestepback.org/index.cgi/Tech/Ruby/PythonAndRuby.rdoc
http://www.approximity.com/ruby/Comparison_rb_st_m_java.html
http://www.jvoegele.com/software/langcomp.html
http://reflectivesurface.com/weblog/2004/12/19/why-rails

http://martinfowler.com/bliki/CollectionClosureMethod.html
http://onestepback.org/articles/10things
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/avi/blogView?showComments=true&entry=3284695382
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2005/08/27/Ruby
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/
http://dev.rubycentral.com/faq/rubyfaq-2.html



beza1e1 wrote:
> Depends on your experience. If you know C,C++,Java and the whole



From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Fri Oct  7 06:46:01 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:46:01 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <roy-615D28.06010007102005@reader1.panix.com>
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128676408.129888.297840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-615D28.06010007102005@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Roy Smith a ?crit :
> There's more to it than just that.  Python's type checking is not just not 
> done at compile time, it's done as late in run time as possible.  One might 
> call it just-in-time type checking.

It's more of a "Nearly too late" type checking I would say. Not that I 
complain but it would be great if there were also some automatic type 
checking to catch a few errors as soon as possible.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 10 07:13:31 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:13:31 +0200
Subject: Changing an AST
References: <1128941690.030540.258790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <didict$lrd$1@sea.gmane.org>

"beza1e1" <andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com> wrote:

> I have such a statement as string: "distance = x**2 + y**2"
> x and y are undefined, so it is no executable Python code, but it is
> parseable. Now i'd like traverse through the AST and change Name('x')
> for the value i have elsewhere. And finally let Python resolve the
> computation.

you can use the parser class for this purpose:

    http://www.effbot.org/librarybook/parser.htm

instead of manipulating the parse tree, you can use the AST to identify
the variables, create a dictionary with the current values, and use exec
or eval to evaluate it.

or you can use a regular expression to dig out all variable names.

or you can compile the expression and analyze the code object to find
the variable names, and use the dictionary/exec approach:

    >>> expr = compile("distance = x**2 + y**2", "", "exec")
    >>> expr.co_varnames
    ('distance',)
    >>> list(set(expr.co_names)  - set(expr.co_varnames))
    ['y', 'x']
    >>> context = {"x": 10, "y": 20}
    >>> exec expr in context
    >>> context["distance"]
    500

(the regular expression approach is probably the only one that's
guaranteed to work on all python implementations)

</F>





From davbrow at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 02:33:21 2005
From: davbrow at gmail.com (davbrow at gmail.com)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 23:33:21 -0700
Subject: how to make this code faster
In-Reply-To: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129185201.650334.262680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

It looks like you're using Numeric for your arrays, but you are then
pulling sin from the math module and calculating one point at a time.
Instead try using sin(whole array) where sin is a ufunc from the
Numeric module.  Also, it's usually not good practice to "import
Numeric as *".  Instead try import Numeric as N so it's clear which
functions you are using.

-- David



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 14:55:56 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:55:56 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
Message-ID: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

Hi,

I am trying to change the data in a form field from python. The following
code does not crash but has no effect as if "form" is just a copy of the
original html form. 

Must I recreate the form order to do that ?

My point is for the client to be able to re-read the modified data.


Thanks,

Philippe
#!/usr/bin/python

import cgi
import os
import sys
import logging
import cgi
sys.stderr = sys.stdout
print "Content-type: text/html\n"
try:
    form = cgi.FieldStorage()
    #logging.warning (form)
    
except:
    logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 1")
try:

    form['tosrv'].value = "TEST"
except:
    logging.exception("\nEXCEPTION 2")
    pass

    <html>
    <body>
    <title>Smart Logon</title>
    <h1>Smart Logon</h1>
    <hr>
    <FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="/cgi-bin/scfbweb.py">
    <table>
    <TR><TD>
      <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="key" VALUE="process">
     TO SERVER:<BR>
      <INPUT  type=text NAME="tosrv" value="TO" size=60>
      <BR>
      FROM SERVER<BR>
      <INPUT type=text name="fromsrv" value="FROM" size=60>
      <P>     
        <INPUT TYPE="SUBMIT" VALUE="START">

    </TD></TR></table>
        </FORM>
</body>
</html>
    



From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Mon Oct 17 11:33:46 2005
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 08:33:46 -0700
Subject: can a cut-down Python still be Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129563032.227240.106670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129531249.605353.204280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129548481.197637.122710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129563032.227240.106670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129563226.211176.6860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Oops, I meant to say BDFL.   Sorry about the transpose.



From roy at panix.com  Sun Oct  2 14:21:28 2005
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 14:21:28 -0400
Subject: Virgin keyword (Was: Will python never intend to support private,
	protected and public?)
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<1128274267.064255.306980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-E05BCE.14212702102005@reader1.panix.com>

"El Pitonero" <pitonero at gmail.com> wrote:
> Python's lack of Java-style "private" surely has its drawback: name
> collisions can happen. But, that's just one side. Name collisions are
> allowed in many dynamic languages, where you can override the default
> system behavior (in some languages, you can override/intercept the
> assignment operator "=", or even the "if" statement and the "while"
> loop.) Sure, in these very dynamic languages you can ACCIDENTALLY
> override the default system behavior. How many Python programmers have
> once upon a time done stupid things like:
> 
> list = 3
> 
> , without realizing that list() is a Python function? This type of
> accidental overriding DOES happen. Similarly, in large and complicated
> Python projects, name collision (even for "self._x" type of private
> members) CAN happen, and I am sure it has happened for some people.

I think everybody would agree that accidentally overwriting a name because 
you didn't realize it was defined in an enclosing context is a Bad Thing.  
The classic (C++/Java) solution has been to have classes protect their 
members from outside exposure.

I wonder if a better solution would be to have the protection applied from 
the other end?  Imagine if we had a "virgin" keyword which could modify the 
assignment statement to assert that the name being assigned to was not 
currently in use.  Thus

virgin x = y

would be treated sort of as if it had been written (ignore, for the moment, 
the possible side effects of the extra eval of x)

try:
   x
except NameError:
   throw ChastityError
else:
   x = y

This would provide you protection from stomping on names by accident, but 
it would allow you to stomp all you wanted if you wanted to.


From kay.schluehr at gmx.net  Sat Oct  8 05:03:04 2005
From: kay.schluehr at gmx.net (Kay Schluehr)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 02:03:04 -0700
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1128762184.908604.267760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> try it (and read the Timbot's article included in Python's sources, and the
> sources themselves)...

Just a reading advise. The translated PyPy source
pypy/objectspace/listsort.py might be more accessible than the
corresponding C code. 

Kay



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Oct 12 13:43:18 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 17:43:18 GMT
Subject: Converting C++ array into Python
References: <mailman.1957.1129122735.509.python-list@python.org>
	<eZCdnVD6O_XQq9DeRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkqd54.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:13:52 -0500, Larry Bates <larry.bates at websafe.com> wrote:
> Like others, without more information on what you have tried we are
> just guessing.  Many times I've used the struct.unpack() module to
> unpack C "arrays" into python objects.

In that case, it sounds like you make yourself depend on the memory layout
of those C arrays -- generally a very bad thing to do.

> Don't know if this will help,
> but thought I'd pass it along.  Post some code and we can help more.

Yes. Or at least tell us what the /type/ of that array is.

I assume it's 'Foo thearray[]', in which case you usually would return it as
a Python list of whatever Python data structure you encode a Foo into --
might be a tuple, or an integer, or a full-blown class of some kind, or ...

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Oct 17 13:52:19 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:52:19 +0100
Subject: override a property
Message-ID: <4353E4D3.4090507@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need to create 
another class with the property changed?
-- 
Robin Becker



From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Thu Oct 13 11:21:33 2005
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:21:33 +0200
Subject: passing variable arguments to a function
In-Reply-To: <1129216706.981025.17750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129216706.981025.17750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434e7b70$0$21056$636a55ce@news.free.fr>

Ryan Wilcox a ?crit :
> Hello all,
> 
> I want to be able to pass a variable number of parameters into a Python
> function. Now, I know how to _receive_ variable arguments, but I don't
> know how to _send_ them.
> 
> def myFunction(*args):
>     print args
> 
> myList = [1, 2, 3, 4]
> myFunction(myList)
> 
> this function will print out ([1, 2, 3, 4]).
> 
> Except that's not what I want. I want the equivalent to:
> 
> myFunction(1, 2, 3, 4)
> 
> So, given an array, how can I unpack the array and pass all of the
> elements into a Python function as parameters?
> 
> Thanks in advance!,
> _Ryan Wilcox
> 

myFunction(*myList)


From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 31 10:07:26 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:07:26 -0700
Subject: 'super' to only be used for diamond inheritance problems?
References: <s4m9f.25186$m%6.9640@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1h5aedq.ctneln1h28tdfN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Alex Hunsley <lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> wrote:

> I've seen a few discussion about the use of 'super' in Python, including
> the opinion that 'super' should only be used to solve inheritance 
> diamond problem. (And that a constructor that wants to call the 
> superclass methods should just call them by name and forget about super.)
> What is people's opinion on this? Does it make any sense?

No, it makes no sense whatsoever.  Any situation where multiple
inheritance is possible, diamonds or no diamonds, can benefit from
cooperative superclass calling where needed (e.g., __init__).  Consider:

class A(B, C): ...

should A know or care at all whether B and C share common bases?  Of
course not -- why should A have to be burdened with that knowledge?!  To
ensure __init__ is called on each base once and only once,
systematically using super(A, self) is the best and simplest way.

Another way to put it: there's ALWAYS "meshes" (diamonds or more
complicated forms), whenever multiple inheritance occurs, because (in
the newstyle object model, and the other one only exists for legacy
reasons and shouldn't be used in new code) object is always among the
ancestors of EVERY class.  So, again: use super.


Alex


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Oct  3 17:36:29 2005
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:36:29 -0700
Subject: Python based unacceptable language filter
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1367.1128342205.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1357.1128292457.509.python-list@python.org>	<11k13a57dtm2u0d@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.1367.1128342205.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zqydnbRhk83AOdzeRVn-qQ@speakeasy.net>

Andrew Gwozdziewycz wrote:

> I think he may be referring to "bad" words, and 'filthy' language. At  
> least that's what i got from the question.
> There are many PHP implementations on the web, which could be adapted  
> to python fairly easily. Most of which are probably not the most  
> ideal solution and
> involve alot of stuff like
> 
>        for n in badwords:
>              texttofilter.replace(n, '<bad word deleted>')
> 
> If that's all you need though, maybe it's not so bad.

This is a no-op, since it replaces the text, but then discards it.  You 
meant:

	for badWord in badWords:
	    textToFilter = textToFilter.replace(badWord, '<)!&%(#&)%>')

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
   If anything is sacred, the human body is sacred.
   -- Walt Whitman


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 26 15:42:32 2005
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:42:32 +0200
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
In-Reply-To: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435FDC28.7050308@hotmail.com>

Hi Iain,

 > Would this be a quicker/better way of doing it?
I don't know if this is faster, but it is for sure more elegant:

http://groups.google.ch/group/comp.lang.python/msg/67b8767c793fb8b0

I really like it because of its simplicity an easy use. (Thanks to
Fredrik Lundh for the script). However, I suggested it once to replace
the approach you suggested in a web application we have, but it was
rejected because the person, who benchmarked it, said that it was OK for
small strings, but for larger ones performance were an issue. Anyway,
for my own applications, performance isn't an issue, so, I use it some
times.

By the way, the benchmarking, from which I don't have any information,
was done in python 2.1.3, so, for sure you will get a better performance
with 2.4.

Regards,
Josef


Iain King wrote:
> I have some code that converts html into xhtml.  For example, convert
> all <i> tags into <em>.  Right now I need to do to string.replace calls
> for every tag:
> 
> html = html.replace('<i>','<em>')
> html = html.replace('</i>','</em>')
> 
> I can change this to a single call to re.sub:
> 
> html = re.sub('<([/]*)i>', r'<\1em>', html)
> 

> 
> Iain
> 




From bonono at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 23:33:02 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 20:33:02 -0700
Subject: fun with lambdas
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2334.1129864519.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2334.1129864519.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129865582.751679.32440@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>



You are asking it to return a list of lambda, not its evaluated value.

map(lambda x: f(x,0), [0,1,2]) works.

[ f(o) for o in [0,1,2] ] works too.

Juan Pablo Romero wrote:
> Hello!
>
> given the definition
>
> def f(a,b): return a+b
>
> With this code:
>
> fs = [ lambda x: f(x,o) for o in [0,1,2]]
>
> or this
>
> fs = []
> for o in [0,1,2]:
>     fs.append( lambda x: f(x,o) )
>
> I'd expect that fs contains partial evaluated functions, i.e.
>
> fs[0](0) == 0
> fs[1](0) == 1
> fs[2](0) == 2
>
> But this is not the case :(
>
> What is happening here?
>
>
> Nevertheless, this code does work
>
> fs = [ eval("lambda x: f(x,%d)" % o) for o in [0,1,2,3]]
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>    Juan Pablo



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct 10 15:47:53 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 12:47:53 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <diegh9$6ih$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534 at urchin.earth.li>,
Tom Anderson  <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would be a 
>lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be faster, 
>more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.
>
>Hmm. Maybe it wouldn't make extensions easier or more reliable. You'd 
>still need some way of figuring out which variables in C-land held 
>pointers to objects; if anything, that might be harder, unless you want to 
>impose a horrendous JAI-like bondage-and-discipline interface.

Bingo!  There's a reason why one Python motto is "Plays well with
others".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur."  --Red Adair


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 13 10:32:41 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?UTF-8?B?TGFzc2UgVsOlZ3PDpnRoZXIgS2FybHNlbg==?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:32:41 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
In-Reply-To: <3r6in8Fi486aU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129170241.274868.45680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r6in8Fi486aU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <F4idnWZi8-iW7dPeRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
<snip>
> Diez
> 
> [1] http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/mi_pixra.html

Oh man... Talk about ... bummer.

Seriously, who do we call to get someone with a straightjacket to show 
up at his home?

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 10:41:25 2005
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:41:25 -0400
Subject: Can module access global from __main__?
References: <digf7s$j3c$1@sea.gmane.org> <digh6l$r0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <digiul$14c$1@sea.gmane.org>

Everything you said is absolutely correct.  I was being lazy.  I had a main
program in module, and wanted to reorganize it, putting most of it into a
new module.  Being python, it actually only took a small effort to fix this
properly, so that in B.py, what were global variables are now passed as
arguments to class constructors and functions.

Still curious about the answer.  If I know that I am imported from __main__,
then I can do access X as sys.modules[__main__].X.  In general, I don't
know how to determine who is importing me.



From iainking at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:17:52 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:17:52 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130242672.024469.324530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Joerg Schuster wrote:
>
> > I just want to use more than 100 capturing groups.
>
> define "more" (101, 200, 1000, 100000, ... ?)
>
> </F>

The Zero-One-Infinity Rule:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html

Iain



From chris2k01 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 13 01:56:07 2005
From: chris2k01 at hotmail.com (Chris Head)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:56:07 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <11krdosli1jgla7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>
	<11kr5p3hstor935@corp.supernews.com>
	<b89rk1phchi0224ha46cq1k1rqvld2a3jf@4ax.com>
	<11krdosli1jgla7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <XFm3f.10321$y_1.7586@edtnps89>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello? I don't think that should make any difference. I should be able
to visit absolutely any website on the Internet without any danger to my
computer or the data stored on it. Any browser which allows otherwise
has a bug. Javascript is not inherently a virus vector. Flawed
implementations might be; the language itself is not. Similarly for
anything else. In reality, with a properly-configured, good quality
operating system (probably a UNIX-type system), one ought to be able to
run full native code without any danger to one's computer or data
(think: under the NOBODY account on Linux).

Just my 1/50th of a dollar.

Chris

Gordon Burditt wrote:
[snip]
> Browsers don't read unsolicited web sites.  Email readers do, however,
> read unsolicited email, and email from downright hostile correspondents.  
> And I consider "web bugs" and similar tracking methods to be a danger
> for something that's supposed to be ONLY "formatted text".
[snip]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: GnuPT 2.7.2
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDTfb26ZGQ8LKA8nwRAo53AJ4gt1VeSkonnRC0f2eSdwLaJt85CACcDP5+
xVO8Y8uWFRzwY26H4EmmKDo=
=178i
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 27 17:19:44 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:19:44 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

>>     Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it's an important point that no court 
>> ever found that Microsoft illegally acquired a monopoly. So to characterize 
>> the monopoly itself as "illegal" is simply erroneous.
>
> Who is paying you to tell these ridiculous crap?  The monopoly is illegal
> if maintained by anticompetitive means regardless of how it was acquired.
> From http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/conclusions-l.html:
>
>    Section 2 of the Sherman Act declares that it is unlawful for a person
>    or  firm  to "monopolize . . . any part of the trade or commerce among
>    the  several  States,  or with foreign nations . . . ." 15 U.S.C. ? 2.
>    This language operates to limit the means by which a firm may lawfully
>    either  acquire  or  perpetuate  monopoly  power. Specifically, a firm
>    violates  sec.  2  if  it  attains  or  preserves  monopoly power through
>    anticompetitive acts.
>
>    The threshold element of a  sec 2 monopolization offense being "the
>    possession of monopoly power in the relevant market...

Which means that the successful exercise of monopoly power is
sufficient to demonstrate the existence of a monopoly. A claim that
David Schwartz has never bothered to answer.

> David Schwartz, I have a direct question for you: are you on
> Microsoft's payroll?

I've noticed something strange that makes me wonder the same
thing. Everytime someone compares MS's behavior with that of any other
criminals, he responds about MS's activity being "equated to that of
criminals with guns", and refuses to discuss the issue. Ironically,
while no one else has so much as compared MS to criminals with guns -
after all, they're white collar criminals - David Schwartz called the
DOJ official who were investigating MS "criminals with guns pointed
out [MS officers] heads".

It seems like he's trying to avoid (further) tarnishing MS's
reputation by avoiding having MS associated with other criminals. You
have to wonder what could caause that kinnd of behavior.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 17 03:06:02 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:06:02 +0200
Subject: can a cut-down Python still be Python?
References: <1129531249.605353.204280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <divigu$fft$1@sea.gmane.org>

"The Eternal Squire" wrote:

> Regardless of the technical difficulties involved (and I know they are
> legion), I am considering developing a very limited subset of Python
> fit to run on embedded systems using 80188 or 68332 microchips.   My
> main question regarding this is:  even if I am successful, would the
> results be rejected out of hand by y'all as not meeting the Zen of
> Python?

some blabbermouths will probably reject it, but no matter how you
twist words, a subset of Python is indeed a subset of Python.

magnus lie hetland's mini-python is a good base to build upon:

    http://hetland.org/python/mini-python.php

</F>





From matt.hammond at rd.bbc.co.uk  Tue Oct  4 07:06:22 2005
From: matt.hammond at rd.bbc.co.uk (Matt Hammond)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:06:22 +0100
Subject: Thread's, async_chat and asyncore
References: <1128392080.485892.287770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.sx4bswv3mko9fo@pcx194.rd.bbc.co.uk>

Hi Jos,

Have you looked at Kamaelia? Its a project I'm involved in to create a  
framework for highly concurrent systems, geared particularly for  
suitability for network server/client applications.

A system is built out of many small components, each with their own  
pseudo-thread of execution (implemented as python generators). They  
communicate with each other by reading from and sending to local inboxes  
and outboxes. These are then linked together, causing messages to be  
passed from component to component.

We're hopefully going to be making a new release soon, with some more  
interesting facilities. A Kamaelia system doing something similar could  
look something like this:

----code snippet starts----

#!/usr/bin/env python

 from Axon.Component import component
import time
import random

class PulseGenerator(component):
     def __init__(self, msg):
         super(PulseGenerator,self).__init__()
         self.msg = msg

     def main(self):                     # microprocess (generator)
         t=time.time()
         while 1:
             while time.time() < t:
                 yield 1                 # hand back control to scheduler
             t += random.random()
             self.send( self.msg, "outbox")


if __name__ == "__main__":
     from Kamaelia.Util.Splitter import Plug, PlugSplitter
     from Kamaelia.Chassis.ConnectedServer import SimpleServer
     from Kamaelia.Util.passThrough import passThrough
     from Axon.Scheduler import scheduler

     producer = PlugSplitter(PulseGenerator("hello!\n")).activate()

     def newClientHandler():
         return Plug(producer, passThrough()).activate()

     SimpleServer( protocol = newClientHandler, port = 1601 ).activate()

     scheduler.run.runThreads()

----code snippet ends----

The SimpleServer component uses the factory function 'newClientHandler' to  
create a component to handle the new client connection. In this case, its  
a 'plug' component that connects to a splitter component. The purpose of  
the splitter is to copy output to multiple destinations. In this case, the  
output comes from a PulseGenerator component.

In the above system there's only one producer. To deal with multiple  
games, I guess you'd have to write a component that handles the initial  
'conversation' with the client to establish which game they want to  
connect to, before then creating the 'plug' component to connect to the  
appropriate game server.

This is of course only one way to do it, and the 'plug' arrangement might  
not be the best eventual solution. We've also got a lookup-service, called  
the Co-ordinating Assistant Tracker. It translates name to references to  
inboxes or outboxes on components. You could, for example, use this  
service to look up components handling specific games.

I'd encourage you to take a look at our project site on sourceforge  
( http://kamaelia.sf.net/ ). There's some more introductory material and a  
tutorial or two which should give you a better idea about the system.

We'd be interested to know what you think, and whether you think you could  
build your application using it.

regards


Matt


-- 

| Matt Hammond
| R&D Engineer, BBC Research & Development, Tadworth, Surrey, UK.
| http://kamaelia.sf.net/
| http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/


From vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 13:59:23 2005
From: vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com (vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 10:59:23 -0700
Subject: Help with language, dev tool selection
In-Reply-To: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129915422.693950.97000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129917563.001216.294150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Further clarification:

The pages will have to be pure static html pages (so no datasource will
be driving generation of the pages).

Therefore, I'd have to create
30,000 files.

It's my understanding that almost every host should be
able to serve a simple and static html code. 

Best, 
Vasa



From graham.fawcett at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 11:22:14 2005
From: graham.fawcett at gmail.com (Graham  Fawcett)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 08:22:14 -0700
Subject: ssh or other python editor
In-Reply-To: <1128432388.417194.323400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128430526.531749.68600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128431721.153846.236930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432388.417194.323400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128439334.705980.311500@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

martijn at gamecreators.nl wrote:
> >So you're using Putty to telenet/ssh into the FreeBSD server, but what
> >editor on you using on the FreeBSD server?
>
> I use pico for that.
> That Samba isn't available but I can install it.
>
> Or are there other editors for FreeBSD that I can run with putty ?

I use Emacs on my win32 workstation to edit files on my Linux servers
via SSH. There are at least two Emacs third-party modules ("modes") --
Tramp and Hobo -- that allow you to edit files over SSH.

I use Hobo (never tried Tramp, I think it's for XEmacs anyway). There
is a bit of setup. You'll need to use "pageant" and authenticate by
RSA/DSA key. See PuTTY's Web site; you may also need to do some
Googling to set up agent-based authentication. Note that pageant will
make PuTTY authenticate automatically as well, so it's easy to test
whether your pageant setup is correct, apart from any Emacs-related
issues.

You might also need to configure Hobo slightly; email me if you want my
configuration details (though I can't help you with the
pageant/authentication stuff, so get that done first :-).

Once you're done, you can load, edit and save files quite
transparently. Not everybody's cup of tea, but there you are. :-)

Graham



From karczma at info.unicaen.fr  Wed Oct 19 05:00:05 2005
From: karczma at info.unicaen.fr (Jerzy Karczmarczuk)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:00:05 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <6u1cl1dvqaac21klrqsoumsoh0ugrbom9e@4ax.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<slrndlbr29.146.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>
	<6u1cl1dvqaac21klrqsoumsoh0ugrbom9e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj51ul$4kq$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>

Roedy Green wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:10:55 GMT, Alan Connor <i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid>
> wrote or quoted :
> 
> 
>>To all the shit-for-brains trolls that are polluting these groups
>>with this crap, which I haven't even bothered to read:
> 
> 
> A single thread does not pollute a group. It is trivially easy to
> ignore a thread.  If your newsreader does not support that feature,
> try an different newsreader.

The pollution *is* there, despite the possibility of individual screening.
The subject and the contents violates some basic nsgroup principles, such as
topicality. One to ten irrelevant postings do no harm. More than hundred -
become annoying. Cross-posting to 5 groups is bad. Please go away.

Claiming that this is an interesting, "great" thread is utterly silly in this
context. Shall Python newsgroup discuss the trial of Saddam Hussein as well?

Jerzy Karczmarczuk


From nephish at xit.net  Thu Oct 20 14:12:31 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 11:12:31 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

ok, yeah, thats exactly what i am looking for. i will give it a go.
thanks a whole lot.

putt this off is a typo, pull this off is what i was meaning to type.

this is cool.



From martin.kuner at thomson.net  Thu Oct 20 12:10:48 2005
From: martin.kuner at thomson.net (mku)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:10:48 -0700
Subject: Accessing a dll from Python
In-Reply-To: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129814361.130127.255990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129824648.628284.52960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I used ctypes. It works really fine with DLLs.
have a lool at http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes
Martin



From http  Fri Oct  7 04:47:10 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 01:47:10 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <mailman.1601.1128599433.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fucuhi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1664.1128673712.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xmzll67e9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> > There is no proposal on the table.  There's a discussion of how this
> > stuff can work, and whether it's useful.  As for how the compiler
> > deals with imported modules, see for example Common Lisp or Haskell or
> > ML--how do they do it?
> 
> Except that you are providing neither useful input on how it could
> work nor on whether it would be useful. All you are doing is telling
> people to do research on other languages (that resumably do things in
> a way more to your liking).

Nah.  I just see the import statement as a solved problem.  Do it the
same way those other languages do.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  4 05:28:59 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:28:59 +0100
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <43423EAA.9060600@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>	<mailman.1389.1128358226.509.python-list@python.org>	<86oe66jpfj.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<43423EAA.9060600@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dhti0j$4ml$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Mike Meyer wrote:
> 
> 
>>When I notice that a list is broken (RFC 2822 says that
>>reply-to is for the *author* of the message; anyone else setting it is
>>doing so in violation of the RFC, and hence broken, no matter how
>>useful it may be), 
> 
> 
> Since when did obeying the RFC become important in and 
> of itself? If there was a RFC that said that passwords 
> should be limited to one alphanumeric character, would 
> we slavishly follow it?
> 
The day such an RFC is published will be the day RFCs stop being useful. 
Until that time the RFCs are pretty much the guide to desired behaviour 
on the Internet, and anyone willfully disobeying them is asking for trouble.

If an RFC was published saying you should give yourself a kick in the 
head for such inanity would you do it? ;-)

> I have been known to change the reply-to address from 
> the address I am sending from (me at work for example) to 
> the address I want the reply to go to (me at home). There 
> are many times I'm emailing people I know can't cope 
> with the complicated task of changing the To address of 
> their reply, so I change the reply-to header so that 
> their reply goes where I want it to go to (which might 
> be another email address of mine, or a different 
> person, or a mailing list).
> 
This is an entirely sensible use of the Reply-To address, and indeed 
many mail clients nowadays will allow you to set a Reply-To for each of 
the accounts you create.

Having in the past used accounts where the Reply-To was different from 
the originating address I am only too well aware, though, that there are 
several email clients and mailing systems that *don't* correctly action 
Reply-To, and instead respond to the originating address directly.

> That's what reply to means, surely? What is the point 
> of a reply-to header that must be the sender, since you 
> already have a header that gives you the sender.
> 
Quite.

> If the RFC says that the reply-to header doesn't 
> actually mean the address the reply should go to, but 
> only the sender, then the RFC is broken. "Where the 
> reply goes to" is a *human* decision, not a technical 
> one. If I send you an email saying "Please reply to 
> president at whitehouse.gov" then your mailer should 
> honour that (although, since we are all adults, you 
> should have the freedom to ignore my request and make a 
> nuisance of yourself by emailing your reply to a 
> different address).
> 
Of course, few users actually bother to even check whether the address 
their mailer generates corresponds to anything in the original message, 
instead blindly relying on their software's behaviour for correctness 
(see above).

> Likewise, if I set the reply address to the list, then 
> your mailer should reply to the list. Perhaps you can 
> argue that *my decision* to have replies go to the list 
> is a bad one, but that's a social issue, not a 
> technical one.
> 
Most mailers will indeed do this. Except the ones that don't (see above 
...).

> 
> 
>>I tell my mailer to ignore reply-to on mail from
>>that list. Similarly, I no longer try and explain to people how long
>>lines violate RFCs and are a pain to read in well-behave mail readers,
> 
[...]

Having a mailer that can vary its behaviour from one list to another is 
something that's way beyond 90% of Internet mail users nowadays. Sadly 
we are talking about a problem that the majority of users don't even 
understand, happily sending their rich-text and HTML emails to mailing 
lists/newsgroups as well as individuals.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 01:41:10 2005
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 05:41:10 GMT
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <11kbp7eogjniq4c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
	<867jcqoxgk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11kbp7eogjniq4c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <WTn1f.9594$U51.3682@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Grant Edwards:

> Where exactly did you see all these
> sub-titled British TV/movies?

    I've noticed this too when travelling but can't recall precise 
details. Perhaps it is on the international versions of American 
channels such as CNN which are commonly watched by people with less 
English and hence less ability to handle accents.

    Neil


From usenet at DavidFilmer.com  Wed Oct 26 03:49:03 2005
From: usenet at DavidFilmer.com (usenet at DavidFilmer.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 00:49:03 -0700
Subject: a Haskell a Day
In-Reply-To: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130312303.713737.160830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130312943.717481.217200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> I hope you will join me in learning Haskell.

I think the folks here are more interested in Perl. There's a reason
why this newsgroup is called lc("comp.lang.PERL.misc").



From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Sat Oct  8 08:36:34 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rbt)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 08:36:34 -0400
Subject: socketServer questions
In-Reply-To: <7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128774994.14078.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>

On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 15:07 -0700, Paul Rubinhttp: wrote:
> rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> > The server just logs data, nothing else. It's not private or important
> > data... just sys admin type stuff (ip, mac addy, etc.). I just don't
> > want some script kiddie discovering it and trying to 'hack' it. By doing
> > so, they'd fill the log up with crap. So, If the data doesn't contain x,
> > y, and z and if the data is too big or too small, I record it to a
> > 'tamper' log and tell the leet hacker to 'go away'. 
> 
> Well, rather than this x,y,z stuff, it's best to do it properly and
> authenticate the records with the hmac module.


Off-topic here, but you've caused me to have a thought... Can hmac be
used on untrusted clients? Clients that may fall into the wrong hands?
How would one handle message verification when one cannot trust the
client? What is there besides hmac? Thanks, rbt



From engineuity at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 11:23:47 2005
From: engineuity at gmail.com (Matt Chan)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:23:47 -0400
Subject: Python script to install network printers
Message-ID: <f294c98c0510040823x4b214f4cg2c8ba9f891bbb825@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I am trying to create a python script to install a set of network
printers. I have had success using an os.popen statement, using
rundll32 and printui.dll. This takes way too long. Can someone point
me in a quicker direction?

thanks,
Matt


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:42:21 2005
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:42:21 +0200
Subject: Confused on Kid
References: <1128957144_131989@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <djl97j$do4$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

> I was
> investigating each subproject individually and could not, for the life
> of me figure out how Kid worked.  I understand that it takes a
> well-formed XML document and transforms it, but I could not figure out
> where it transforms it, or how to transform a document.  They have
> plenty of template examples, but I'm left say, "What do I do with this?"
> I know I can't just pop in it a browser because it has no sort of style
> sheet or anything so it would just render as an XML document.  What do
> you do after you have a kid template?

KID is a pythonic template system. The KID templates are well-formed XML
files but the generated document can be HTML or even plain text (this
should be supported in some of the latest versions).

The KID templates have some simple control structures like 'if' and 'for'
which are modeled to be similar to python. The way it works is you feed the
template some data and it generates HTML documents. The document can have a
reference to a CSS file just like any other HTML page.

-- 
damjan


From noway at sorry.com  Sun Oct 30 14:12:03 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:12:03 GMT
Subject: Understanding the arguments for SubElement factory in ElementTree
References: <1130567974.754511.66930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7W89f.15842$65.462321@twister1.libero.it>

mirandacascade at yahoo.com wrote:

> <root>
>   <subroot>xyz</subroot>
> </root>
>
> rather than:
> root = Element('root')
> subroot = SubElement(root, 'subroot')
> subroot.text = 'xyz'
>
> Was wondering whether this code accomplish that
> root = Element('root')
> subroot = SubElement(root, 'subroot', text='xyz')


No, this creates:

<root>
  <subroot text="xyz" />
</root>

I believe the text ought to be set in a separate statement.

Giovanni Bajo




From deets at web.de  Fri Oct  7 07:58:52 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 04:58:52 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndkcko1.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qmrd2Ffocu8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkcko1.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1128686332.212150.275360@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Then argue against my ideas, and not your makings of it.
>
> If I just use 'ANY' and you fill that in with C void* like
> implementation and argue against that, then you are arguing
> against your own ghosts, but not against what I have in mind.

Well, you didn't tell us what you had in mind. You just said "let's
introduce something like any". I showed you existing implementations of
such a concept that have problems. You say "thats not what _I_ have in
mind, so your criticism doesn't apply." Guess what, I can't read your
mind. But you did not tell me in what your idea is different from
existing concepts.

> You have not counterd my idea with criticism. You have decorated my
> idea with how you think it would be implemented (C void*) and argued
> against that. I don't need to give an implementation to notice, that
> you jumped to a particular implementation and basicly just countered
> that implementation, not the idea in general.

Again - where is your idea layed out in (more) detail, so that one can
discuss them? That was all that I'm asking - which of course you
carefully avoided...

> As far as I'm concerned that was just meant as a matter of fact remark,
> with no snide intentions.

Where exactly come the facts? All I see is some vague "there should be
something better, by introducing ANY". But no details how typechecking
then would work. I showed you that existing type systems can't properly
cope with ANY so far and allow for much errors. Just saying "but mine
won't" is a little bit thin, don't you think?l

Diez



From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 20 13:50:09 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:50:09 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Fq2dnc65T9RsWMreRVn-gQ@comcast.com>
	<11lfltdrulivj6b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <11lfm6hfno9c5ee@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-20, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

>> and insert None (or whatever value is used by charting
>> package) for times where observations were not taken.  This
>> will mean that you have to preprocess your data by determining
>> a time step step value that will fit your data.  If you get 3
>> observations each 10 minutes apart then one an hour later, you
>> will need to insert 5 empty observations in the list before
>> the last observation.
[...]
>
> That's completely unnecessary.  Just pass a set of time,value
> pairs and they'll get plotted as desired.

For example, here's how gnuplot plots the data

2 12
3 10
4 9
101 8
102 6
103 9



  20 ++----------+-----------+-----------+----------+-----------+----------++
     +           +           +           +          +      "foo.dat"   A    +
     |                                                                      |
     |                                                                      |
     |                                                                      |
  15 ++                                                                    ++
     |                                                                      |
     |                                                                      |
     |A                                                                     |
     |                                                                      |
  10 ++A                                                                   ++
     | A                                                          A         |
     |                                                           A          |
     |                                                                      |
     |                                                           A          |
   5 ++                                                                    ++
     |                                                                      |
     |                                                                      |
     |                                                                      |
     +           +           +           +          +           +           +
   0 ++----------+-----------+-----------+----------+-----------+----------++
     0           20          40          60         80         100         120


Isn't that what you're asking for?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... I have read the
                                  at               INSTRUCTIONS...
                               visi.com            


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Oct 13 15:49:15 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:49:15 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<wzzmpf80cj.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<1129129852.92dc41cf1bd445c448e00bd42ec59500@teranews>
Message-ID: <wzek6pxkn8.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) (DH) wrote:

>DH> So lose the "if."

>DH>    R = C then A else B

>DH> I don't think python uses the question mark for anything.  Throw that
>DH> in, if it makes parsing easier:

>DH>    R = C ? then A else B

We have already had this discussion several times. I don't think it is
going to add anything new to it. Besides after the BDFL has decided it is
useless. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From nephish at xit.net  Sun Oct 30 21:48:30 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 18:48:30 -0800
Subject: need start point for getting html info from web
In-Reply-To: <86br16bef2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1130724071.688187.59230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86br16bef2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1130726910.798179.248770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

yeah, i know i am going to have to write a bunch of stuff because the
values i want to get come from several different sites. ah-well, just
wanting to know the easiest way to learn how to get started. i will
check into beautiful soup, i think i have heard it referred to before.
thanks
shawn



From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 15:23:37 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 12:23:37 -0700
Subject: SWIG - python.exe crash
Message-ID: <1128453817.543212.320830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

When I try to print an object in Python, python.exe crashes.   Below
are my files.

defs.h
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
typedef unsigned long MY_DIGIT;


myapp.c
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
void MakeDigits(MY_DIGIT digits[]) {
    ....
}

char* GetString(char *inMessage, MY_DIGIT *digit) {
    char *results;
    ...
    ...
    return results;
}


MyApp.i
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
%module MyApp
%{
    #include "math.h"
%}

extern void MakeDigits(MY_DIGIT digits[]);
extern char* GetString(char *inMessage, MY_DIGIT *digit);

/* allows for the creation of a MY_DIGIT array */
%inline %{
 MY_DIGIT *my_digit_array(int size) {
  return (MY_DIGIT *) malloc(size * sizeof(int));
 }
%}


...I have two questions.

1) One, I call MakeDigits which should populate the "digits" array with
some values.  It seems the first time I try it the digits array is
populated.  Then if I try to re-use the digits array i get some garbage
output.  But if I recall MakeDigits...I can then re-use the digits
array over and over without anymore problems?  Any idea?
        here is how I was trying it...
        digits = my_digit_array(10)
        MakeDigits(digits)

2) When I try to print the "my_digit_array" object, python.exe
crashes...below is the code I use to cause this problem: (within
python)
        digits = my_digit_array(10)
        print digits

    I am using Python 2.4.1, Swig 1.3.25 on Win XP Pro.

I tried sending a message on the SWIG mailing list...but so far it
hasn't shown up on the list...I've sent it three times now.  I'll keep
trying.



From fqueirolo at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 18:00:26 2005
From: fqueirolo at gmail.com (fqueirolo at gmail.com)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 15:00:26 -0700
Subject: Boost.python mingw install on XP
Message-ID: <1128463226.753667.157140@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello all I am trying to install boost.python on my XP box.

Boost: 1.33.0
Python: 2.4.2 (Final)
MinGw: 4.1.1

I try:

D:\Dev\boost_1_33_0\libs\python\build>bjam
"--prefix=D:\Dev\boosttarget" "-sTOOLS=mingw"
"--with-python-root=D:\Dev\Python24" "--with-python" install

from a DOS command prompt.


Where:
D:\Dev\boosttarget is an existing directory
mingw/bin is in my System path
D:\Dev\Python24 is my python root
My pexports output: Python24.a is in C:\WINDOWS\system32

The bjam output is:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
*** If you don't need Boost.Python, you can ignore this section  ***
*** pass --without-python to suppress this message in the future ***

skipping Boost.Python library build due to missing or incorrect
configuration

couldn't find Python.h in "c:/tools/python/include"

You can configure the location of your python installation by setting:
PYTHON_ROOT    - currently "c:/tools/python"
PYTHON_VERSION - The 2-part python Major.Minor version number (e.g.
                 "2.2", NOT "2.2.1")  - currently "2.2"

The following are automatically configured from PYTHON_ROOT if not
otherwise set:

    PYTHON_LIB_PATH       - path to Python library object; currently
                            "c:/tools/python/libs"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
don't know how to make install
...found 1 target...
...can't find 1 target...

I can give you any other system or set up parameters. BTW I specified
where my python root is so I have no idea why it can't find Python.h!

Thank you very much,
Francesco



From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Oct 25 12:02:47 2005
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:02:47 +0200
Subject: Documentation for iteration in mappings
In-Reply-To: <435e49b8$1@news.uni-ulm.de>
References: <435e49b8$1@news.uni-ulm.de>
Message-ID: <7i1233-qcv.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Dennis Benzinger wrote:
> 
> I must be blind because I didn't find anything in the documentation
> which says iterating over an dictionary iterates over its keys.
> 
> For example
> 
> a_dictionary = {0: "zero", 1: "one"}
> for x in a:
>     print x
> 
> gives you
> 
> 0
> 1
> 
> Where is this information hidden? :)

You should examine your program. Simply pasting the code above to the
Python shell fails as expected:

$ python
Python 2.4.2 (#1, Oct  1 2005, 14:32:09)
[GCC 3.3.5 20050117 (prerelease) (SUSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a_dictionary = {0: "zero", 1: "one"}
>>> for x in a:
...     print x
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'a' is not defined
>>>

Ciao, Michael.


From kwright at free-comp-shop.com  Wed Oct 19 01:07:42 2005
From: kwright at free-comp-shop.com (Programmer in Chief)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 22:07:42 -0700
Subject: Don't bother to read this, it's just Xah Lee again
In-Reply-To: <1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129675636.740977.151760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129698462.233695.80860@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> >    <stupid question>
> this is of interest to me,

That's why you are replying to yourself

> I have written a full
> page of criticism but the human animal fuckers handily censored it too.

Who would have predicted that?  Maybe you should boycott them.

To those who came to this message looking for pornography, I am sorry
for the misleading keywords.  Try adding "pictures" to your search
terms.
There is nothing to see here; just another keyboard wanker.

Python, Perl, Lisp, and Scheme all have one thing in common ---
the people who use them do not need any more of this drivel.

   -- Programmer in Chief



From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  2 12:10:53 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 12:10:53 -0400
Subject: Class Help
In-Reply-To: <dho93a$51q$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F440ECF7E28289F7C258E7A2810@phx.gbl>

Thanks everyone for helping me out and tolerating the noob question =D  The 
last part was confusing to me and thanks for explaining it so I get it!


-Ivan

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 08:39:56 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:39:56 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <20i1m19cup3s8hb4ikqti1monvtf9nb3dv@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    Well shit, how surprising that they wouldn't want to do business with 
>you if you broke your agreements with them.

I am going to summarise this then drop out. My blood pressure is at a
boil.

I was a computer retailer. We built custom computers. I had 8 people
working for me.  This was in the time prior to Win95 when IBM had a
clearly technically superior solution with OS/2 to MS's Windows 3.1

I had no contract of any kind with MS.  I never bought anything from
them directly. I was far too small a fish.  I bought the components
including software through dozens of wholesale suppliers.

MS threatened to put any retailer out of business who would not
co-operate with them in extorting money from people who had no use for
MS Windows who explicitly for various reasons did not want to buy MS
windows.

To me that is no different from a popsicle manufacturer demanding I
sell $200 popsicles with every machine I sold. The machines needed MS
Windows no more than they needed a popsicle.  

The particular way MS threatened to put me out of business was by
threatening to arm twist all wholesalers to refuse to sell MS product
to me, which any retailer needed to survive in those days.

It was obviously quasi legal or the threats would have had paper to
back them up so I could go to court now to sue the fuckers.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From msoulier at digitaltorque.ca  Mon Oct 31 15:46:44 2005
From: msoulier at digitaltorque.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:46:44 -0400
Subject: Python Linked list?
In-Reply-To: <001f01c5de4b$65e18880$0201a8c0@LOKI>
References: <001f01c5de4b$65e18880$0201a8c0@LOKI>
Message-ID: <fb6605670510311246v6e2f8cc2r19374eb41e6f322f@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/05, Simon Roses Femerling <simonroses at granisla.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for a linked list class or lib ? Any suggestions ?

I'm not sure anyone would bother making one for Python. Why do you
feel that you need one?

Are dictionaries and lists not enough? Can you not simply make one via
references in a class?

class MyNode(object):
   next = None

Should do it, no?

Mike

--
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at digitaltorque.ca>


From harddong at 21cn.net  Sun Oct 23 11:09:46 2005
From: harddong at 21cn.net (Gonnasi)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:09:46 +0800
Subject: How to separate directory list and file list?
Message-ID: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>

With
>glob.glob("*")

or
>os.listdir(cwd)

I can get a combined file list with directory list, but I just wanna a
bare file list, no directory list. How to get it?

Tons of thanks in advance!

Gonnasi


From nephish at xit.net  Thu Oct 27 13:26:58 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0700
Subject: how do i run another script from my python script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2653.1130432502.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2653.1130432502.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130434018.752481.8900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

man, thats just too easy.
thanks much !



From gjohannes at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 11:52:53 2005
From: gjohannes at gmail.com (gjohannes at gmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 08:52:53 -0700
Subject: IDLE dedent/unindent key bindings for non-us keybord?
Message-ID: <1128268373.613214.102500@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi.

I use Idle 1.1.1 on Python 2.4.1.

The "Ctrl-[" and "Ctrl-]" key bindings for indenting do not work on
non-us keyboards where brackets are accessed by the "Alt Gr" key.

The Tab key seem to work for indenting a selected textblock on my
swedish keyboard, but Shift-tab does not dedent as you would have
expected.

If I try to redefine key bindings in "options->Configure IDLE->Keys" so
that Shift-Tab is bound to dedent, things seem to get really weird.

After creating a "Custom key set"
- the "Ok"-button does not close the options window, I have to use
"Cancel" to get out.

- Tab does not longer indent selected text, but replaces it with a tab
character instead.

- Shift->Tab does nothing.

- F5 for Run module does nothing

and so on.


What could be wrong here, and do you have any other suggestions for a
"dedent" key binding that may work on a non-us/swedish keyboard (or
maybe an alternative editor for python code).

Thanks.



From m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz  Tue Oct 18 06:55:12 2005
From: m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz (m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:55:12 +0800
Subject: =?gb2312?B?1NrP+8+iICJ0ZXN0ItbQt6LP1rKhtr4=?=
Message-ID: <20051018105536.CD7FC1E4159@bag.python.org>

The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 10:22:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:22:54 +0200
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com><mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org><1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com><mailman.1690.1128693730.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128694071.902605.201440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di60bu$ioj$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:

> Why is it that a membership test needs to call the __cmp__ method?

because the membership test has to check if the tested item is a member
of the sequence. if it doesn't do that, it's hardly qualifies as a membership
test.  from the reference manual:

    For the list and tuple types, x in y is true if and only if there exists an
    index i such that x == y[i] is true.

</F> 





From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 04:28:23 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 01:28:23 -0700
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
Message-ID: <1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

George Sakkis <gsakkis at rutgers.edu> wrote:

> "Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lassevk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, that looks like Mike's solution except that it uses the
> > built-in heapq module.
> 
> This make a big difference for the algorithmic complexity; replacing an
> item in a heap is much more efficient than sorting the whole list.

In the most general case, yes.  However, Python's sort ("timsort") is
preternaturally fast when sorting sequences that are mostly sorted
except for maybe one element being in the wrong place... try it (and
read the Timbot's article included in Python's sources, and the sources
themselves)...  I suspect that heapq will still be faster, but by
nowhere as much as one might think.


> Yes, it's a little inconvenient that the builtin heap doesn't take a
> comparison operation but you can easily roll your own heap by transforming
> each item to a (key,item) tuple. Now that I'm thinking about it, it might
> be a good addition to the cookbook.

I believe Python 2.5 adds a key= argument to heapq's functions...


Alex


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:53:28 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:53:28 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Iain King wrote:

> Don't you see how your metaphor doesn't work?

    No.

> It would only be
> fitting if Microsoft OWNED the outlet.

    Huh?

> Places which sell Whoppers
> are Burger King franchises, so of course they aren't going to sell
> Big Mac's.

    Right. The Burger King corporate franchising agent only sells Whoppers 
wholesale to franchisees, and to be a franchisee you must agree not to sell 
competing products.

> PC hardware stores do not belong to microsoft.

    91% of Burger King restaurants are independently owned and operated. 
Burger King doesn't own the stores either.

> There
> just isn't any correlation.

    Huh?

    DS




From Florian.Lindner at xgm.de  Mon Oct  3 12:12:37 2005
From: Florian.Lindner at xgm.de (Florian Lindner)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:12:37 +0200
Subject: Graphical debugger/code explorer
Message-ID: <dhrlbj$sph$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello,
in order to understand python code from a larger project (Zope 3) I'm
looking for a tool that helps me with that. It should also help 
What (graphical) application running on Linux can you recommend?

Thanks,

Florian


From sam at email-scan.com  Sat Oct  8 19:26:34 2005
From: sam at email-scan.com (Sam)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 18:26:34 -0500
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1777.1128803144.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128807595.122982.310790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1128813996.624626.6322.500@commodore.email-scan.com>

Xah Lee writes:

> Dear Michael Goettsche,
> 
> why don't you lead the pack to be on-topic for a change, huh?

Why don't you:

1.  Learn how to properly format messages for posting to Usenet, so that 
your scribblings don't read like stream-of-consciousness babbling
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting).

2.  Explain why such an important and famous ubergeek like yourself (judging 
by your web site) has to beg others to write code for him.

3.  Make sure the door handle doesn't hit your ass on the way out.


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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 05:22:22 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:22:22 +0200
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130055226.967456.266220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djfkoh$g7c$1@sea.gmane.org>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:

> >if you can define the semantics, it's a few lines of code.  if you're not
> sure about the semantics, a built-in won't help you...<
>
> I think the language needs a fast built-in version of it. If something
> is both inside Mathematica and Ruby, then probably it can be useful in
> Python too :-)

numpy already has one:

    http://numeric.scipy.org/numpydoc/numpy-9.html#pgfId-36512

(it's probably there in scipy too, but the scipy docs don't appear to be
freely available. hmm...)

PIL also has one:

    http://www.effbot.org/imagingbook/image.htm#image-getdata-method

there's also one in Tkinter:

    >>> import Tkinter
    >>> Tkinter._flatten(["abc", 1, 2, (3, 4, 5), None, [6, 7, 8, (9,)]])
    ('abc', 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

to create a generic version, you have to decide which sequences to
treat like sequences, and which sequences you don't want to treat
like sequences...

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  8 05:35:18 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 10:35:18 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,   Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <200510071643.11162.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<200510071528.25305.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<di6mn3$4mp$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510071643.11162.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <di83sd$v87$1@sea.gmane.org>

Terry Hancock wrote:
> On Friday 07 October 2005 03:44 pm, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Precisely because there *is* such a thing as a saving. If I buy a $100 
>>gumball for $80 I have achieved a saving of 20%.
> 
> 
> Nope, that's incorrect American. ;-)
> 
> You can say "I bought a $100 gumball for $80, saving 20%," or
> "If I buy a $100 gumball for $80, I have achieved a savings of 20%."
> 
> (Although, you lose points for style with "achieved", and those
> are awfully expensive gumballs). ;-)
> 
I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for 
embiggening prices.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lbolognini at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 21:03:22 2005
From: lbolognini at gmail.com (lbolognini at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 18:03:22 -0700
Subject: Automatic binding of **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130634202.937957.244220@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks everybody for their reply. I'll see what solution is best for my
case and maybe follow up here.

Thanks again,
Lorenzo



From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 00:53:14 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 21:53:14 -0700
Subject: Importing at runtime
Message-ID: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have several .py files in a directory that I would like to import at
run time.  Each file contains a state machine that requires to be run
in its own thread.

The first problem I have is how can I import the code in all of the .py
files without knowing the file names in advance.

Can this be done ??

TIA



From martin.witte at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 09:50:23 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 06:50:23 -0700
Subject: how to send a SIGINT to a Python process?
In-Reply-To: <1128146541.001784.85350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128146541.001784.85350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128261023.748355.252190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

AFAIK there isn't. You could browse through this
http://starship.python.net/crew/tmick/ to get an idea on how to kill on
both platforms.



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Sat Oct 29 13:37:46 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:37:46 GMT
Subject: Any Pythonic GTK Undo library?
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-62BA42.13375929102005@news.verizon.net>

I'm looking for a "pythonic" GTK Undo library/class.  It would have a 
framework for Undo/Redo, and would provide Undo/Redo for TextView, 
Entry, and containers and other classes.  In a "batteries included" 
fashion, just instantiating a "UndoableTextView" or "UndoableEntry" or 
"UndoableContainer" would provide Undo and Redo in the right-click menu; 
simply connecting such an object to an "UndoableUIManager" would take 
care of the stock items in the menus and toolbar; and there would be a 
simple connection to some sort of "UndoableDocument" interface or mix-in 
for more global sequencing of Undo/Redo.  Does something like this exist 
for Python or GTK?  Googling didn't turn up anything useful.

I'm disappointed that GTK doesn't do this already.  Making my own seems 
doable, but a fair amount of work.  If there isn't some such thing 
already, is there interest in using one that I make?

I know about GUndo, which doesn't implement any actual undo operations; 
the actual operations would need to be coded for TextView and Entry and 
anything else.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct  3 20:12:45 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:12:45 -0400
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
In-Reply-To: <43417009$0$15070$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no> <Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>
	<dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>
	<mailman.1300.1128116615.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433e7898$0$49766$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<mailman.1392.1128360722.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43417009$0$15070$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Message-ID: <GuydnSatM5XoVNzenZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@powergate.ca>

Michael wrote:
> John J. Lee wrote:
>>You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
>>"socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?
> 
> He said he had tried google - OK, not in the first post but early in this
> thread -  I don't equate that with being dumb - just dumb luck :-)
> 
> Message-ID: <dhj7m5$18j8$1 at news.uit.no>
> 
> After all Peter Hansen suggested the search terms "python socketmodule.c"
> rather than just "socketmodule.c"
> 
> Message-ID: <5N-dnZny3YyaA6HenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d at powergate.ca>
> 
> To you the obvious search term was "socketmodule.c" which to me simply means
> you're more aligned with Google than Tor :-)

Sorry, but this defense is less than weak.  Using "python 
socketmodule.c" you actually get the right answer as the third result, 
while with the even-more-obvious-to-a-rookie "socketmodule.c" you get it 
as the *first* result.  It would perhaps be fun to experiment to see 
just how hard it would be to use "socketmodule.c" plus anything else and 
*not* get the result one was looking for. ;-)  (note the wink...)

Clearly "Tor" did not try searching Google with two of the most obvious 
results, but I think at this point he should be considered to be soundly 
thrashed over the matter and we can all move on.  This isn't getting any 
more interesting...

-Peter


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Mon Oct 24 22:21:11 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:21:11 -0700
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200510241921.11994.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Here it goes with a little less overhead:


py> class namespace:
...   def __init__(self, adict):
...     self.__dict__.update(adict)
...
py> n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
py> n.bob
1
py> n.ted
3

James

On Monday 24 October 2005 19:06, Ron Adam wrote:
> Hi, I found the following to be a useful way to access arguments after
> they are passed to a function that collects them with **kwds.
>
>
>      class namespace(dict):
>          def __getattr__(self, name):
>              return self.__getitem__(name)
>          def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>              self.__setitem__(name, value)
>          def __delattr__(self, name):
>              self.__delitem__(name)
>
>      def foo(**kwds):
> 	kwds = namespace(kwds)
> 	print kwds.color, kwds.size, kwds.shape  etc....
>
>      foo( color='red', size='large', shape='ball', .... etc..)
>
>
> It just seems awkward to have to use "string keys" in this situation.
> This is easy and still retains the dictionary so it can be modified and
> passed to another function or method as kwds again.
>
> Any thoughts?  Any better way to do this?
>
> Cheers, Ron

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Wed Oct 12 04:30:05 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:30:05 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1798.1128881623.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>	<43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1798.1128881623.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434cc98e$0$8933$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Alex Stapleton wrote:
> 
> On 9 Oct 2005, at 19:04, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
> 
>> Laszlo Zsolt Nagy a ?crit :
(snip)
>>> Do you want to know how many internal string operations are done  inside
>>> the Python interpreter? I believe it is not a useful information.  There
>>> are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.
>>>
>>> For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602
>>>
>>
>> A benchmark stating that Python is interpreted is bullshit.
>>
> Except it is interpreted. What is your point?

Nope. It's byte-compiled, just like Java. What do you think those .pyc
files are exactly ?

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Oct  7 19:22:43 2005
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 16:22:43 -0700
Subject: Matching zero only once using RE
References: <1128706522.319929.75310@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86ll15nri1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <di7003$3cs$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <86ll15nri1.fsf at bhuda.mired.org>, Mike Meyer  <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>
>I think it's time to form a Committee for the Prevention of Regular
>Expression Abuse.

    'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
    regular expressions."  Now they have two problems.' --Jamie Zawinski
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur."  --Red Adair


From johnandsarah at estragon.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Oct  2 12:37:03 2005
From: johnandsarah at estragon.freeserve.co.uk (John Perks and Sarah Mount)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 17:37:03 +0100
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<7x1x34f85u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <dhp2gd$1kc$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

> 1) Something that fixes the broken name mangling in the current
> system, but still doesn't try to defeat intentional unmangling.
> Currently, if you have a class with the same name as one of its
> superclasses, the name mangling can fail even its existing purpose of
> preventing accidental collisions.

None of what follows offers any protection against malice, but at least
"normal" use will be safe. Are there any other idioms where __dict__s
are used as dumping grounds for strange objects, in particular
superclasses of that object?

(For this to work the instance needs a __dict__; fully __slots__'d
objects won't be amenable to it)

Instead of mangling in the class name:

class C:
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.__x = x

One could mangle in the class itself:

class C:
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.__dict__[C, 'x'] = x

(and retrieve similarly). Now classes with the same name are still
regarded as distict. A variation on this is to have a single __dict__
entry for the class, which refers to another dict, so we would have
something like

def __init__(self, ...):
   privates = { }
   self.__dict__[C] = privates
   # ...

def f(self...):
    privates = self.__dict__[C]
    # ...

and then get or set privates[varName] as needed. (Or possibly use it
lazily via setdefault if you have a good idea of the what the defaults
should be.)

However this means non-strings end up in dir() which may cause things
like map str.upper, dir(C())) to fail. Thus instead of C as the key we
could use `id(C)`.

The only chance for collision I can see in the `id` solution is if an
object changes its __class__, then the old class is GC'd, a new one is
loaded with the same address as the old, and the __class__ is changed to
(a subclass of) this new one. Frankly __class__ reassignment is fairly
esoteric, and already has the question of how well the __dict__ from the
old type masquerades as a new one.

Other scope for collision: if the classes in question are instances of
some mad metaclass which defines == to mean something other than
identity testing (is). This would only be needed if the objects weren't
just used as types, but also something else as well (e.g. collections of
all their instances, implemented via weakrefs).

Note that this won't quite work for private data in new classes, as
their __dict__ is read-only, but I offer the following peculiar hack:

class K(object):
    __dict__ = {}
    # ...

Any normal accesses to K.__dict__ will reach the wrapping dictproxy
object, but K.__dict__['__dict__'] is all yours to play with. If you
start by assigning __dict__ to locals() in the class initializer, then
writes to K.__dict__['__dict__'] will be visible just through
K.__dict__. Whether that's desirable or not depends on you. (locals()
isn't what you want if you're creating truly dynamic types via
type(names, bases, dict), though.)

Paranoid/super-open-minded types might wish to replace accesses to
__dict__ here with calls to object.__getattribute__(...,'__dict__') in
case any subclasses have strange semantics (which may make perfect sense
as far as they're concerned, but still potentially be a problem for you
having to second-guess them.)

Hope this helps

John

PS Only slightly relevant: when checking out the possibilties for
private attrs on types, I ran up against dictproxies. What need did they
meet over plain dicts, why are they read-only (at the Python and CPython
level), why are they not instantiable directly (though you can always
just create a temporary type and steal its __dict__), and why is type's
__dict__ is read-only but a class's isn't? I just have down'n'dirty type
dict munging to do, and it seems retrograde that it only works with old
(and nominally less flexible) classes.




From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 14:33:28 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:33:28 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:5am333-iia.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
>> news:0hm233-0ut.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>>     I don't know what drugs you're on, but the McDonald's corporation 
>> most
>> certainly is in the business of the wholesale distribution of burger
>> patties. One key reason to become a franchisee is to access their 
>> wholesale
>> distribution network.

> Then they are not in the wholesale business. So lock the drugs cabinet.

> (What they are marketting is a "brand", complete with clowns and
> arches, and a secret formula for making up patties in buns).

    So is Microsoft, except the clowns write the software. When a shop sells 
machines that ship with Microsoft Windows, it is to some extent the power of 
Microsoft's brand that brings them into the shop.

    All I'm saying is that if Microsoft had insisted on exclusive deals to 
offer Windows at wholesale, that would have been entirely reasonable. 
Microsoft actually insisted on something less than this. The Windows name is 
a valuable brand, and advertising it and promoting it got you business. 
Microsoft doesn't want to see customers drawn in by the power of its brand 
being switched to competing products.

    How would the McDonald's corporation feel if you walked into a store 
because of the pretty golden arches (that in McDonald's opinion, assure the 
customer of getting quality McDonald's food) and the person at the counter 
said, "try a Whopper, it's cheaper and tastes better too".

    There is nothing unusual about wholesale agreements that restrict your 
ability to sell competing products.

    DS




From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Mon Oct 10 19:54:11 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:54:11 -0700
Subject: Works only in interactive mode
In-Reply-To: <1128985455.433816.8710@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128978917.143125.68230@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128985455.433816.8710@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128988451.318485.291240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Sam,
thank you very much. Your diagnosis was perfect!
Bye.



From chris at kateandchris.net  Mon Oct 24 13:46:40 2005
From: chris at kateandchris.net (Chris Lambacher)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:46:40 -0400
Subject: python gc performance in large apps
In-Reply-To: <43594BD5.7050104@u20.org>
References: <43594BD5.7050104@u20.org>
Message-ID: <20051024174640.GB17848@kateandchris.net>

A couple of strategic gc.collect() calls can be useful.  You can also tweak
how the garbage collector gets run by changing settings in the gc module.

-Chris
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 04:13:09PM -0400, Robby Dermody wrote:
> 
> Hey guys (thus begins a book of a post :),
> 
> I'm in the process of writing a commercial VoIP call monitoring and 
> recording application suite in python and pyrex. Basically, this 
> software sits in a VoIP callcenter-type environment (complete with agent 
> phones and VoIP servers), sniffs voice data off of the network, and 
> allows users to listen into calls. It can record calls as well. The 
> project is about a year and 3 months in the making and lately the 
> codebase has stabilized enough to where it can be used by some of our 
> clients. The entire project has about 37,000 lines of python and pyrex 
> code (along with 1-2K lines of unrelated java code).
> 
> Now, some disjointed rambling about the architecture of this software. 
> This software has two long-running server-type components. One 
> component, the "director" application, is written in pure python and 
> makes use of the twisted, nevow, and kinterbasdb libraries (which I 
> realize link to some C extensions). The other component, the 
> "harvester", is a mixture of python and pyrex, and makes use of the 
> twisted library, along with using the C libs libpcap and glib on the 
> pyrex end. Basically, the director is the "master" component. A single 
> director process interacts with users of the system through a web and/or 
> pygtk client application interface and can coordinate 1 to n harvesters 
> spread about the world. The harvester is the "heavy lifter" component 
> that sniffs the network traffic and sifts out the voice and signalling 
> data. It then updates the director of call status changes, and can 
> provide users of the system access to the data. It records the data to 
> disk as well. The scalibility of this thing is really cool: given a 
> single director sitting somewhere coordinating the list of agents, 
> multiple harvester can be placed anywhere there is voice traffic. A user 
> that logs into the director can end up seeing the activity of all of 
> these seperate voice networks presented like a single giant mesh.
> 
> Overall, I have been very pleased with python and the 3rd party 
> libraries that I use (twisted, nevow, kinterbasdb and pygtk). It is a 
> joy to program with, and I think the python community has done a fine 
> job. However, as I have been running the software lately and profiling 
> its memory usage, the one and only Big Problem I have seen is that of 
> the memory usage. Ideally, the server application(s) should be able to 
> run indefinitely, but from the results I'm seeing I will end up 
> exhausting the memory on a 2 GB machine in 2 to 3 days of heavy load.
> 
> Now normally I would not raise up an issue like this on this list, but 
> based on the conversations held on this list lately, and the work done 
> by Evan Jones (http://evanjones.ca/python-memory.html), I am led to 
> believe that this memory usage -- while partially due to some probably 
> leaks in my program -- is largely due to the current python gc. I have 
> some graphs I made to show the extent of this memory usage growth:
> 
> http://public.robbyd.fastmail.fm/iq-graph1.gif
> 
> http://public.robbyd.fastmail.fm/iq-graph-director-rss.gif
> 
> http://public.robbyd.fastmail.fm/iq-graph-harv-rss.gif
> 
> The preceding three diagrams are the result of running the 1 director 
> process and 1 harvester process on the same machine for about 48 hours. 
> This is the most basic configuration of this software. I was running 
> this application through /usr/bin/python (CPython) on a Debian 'testing' 
> box running Linux 2.4 with 2GB of memory and Python version 2.3.5. 
> During that time, I gathered the resident and virtual memory size of 
> each component at 120 second intervals. I then imported this data into 
> MINITAB and did some plots. The first one is a graph of the resident 
> (RSS) and virtual memory usage of the two applications. The second one 
> is a zoomed in graph of the director's resident memory usage (complete 
> with a best fit quadratic), and the 3rd one is a zoomed in graph of the 
> harvester's resident memory usage.
> 
> To give you an idea of the network load these apps were undergoing 
> during this sampling time, by the time 48 hours had passed, the 
> harvester had gathered and parsed about 900 million packets. During the 
> day there will be 50-70 agents talking. This number goes to 10-30 at night.
> 
> In the diagrams above, one can see the night-day separation clearly. At 
> night, the memory usage growth seemed to all but stop, but with the 
> increased call volume of the day, it started shooting off again. When I 
> first started gathering this data, I was hoping for a logarithmic curve, 
> but at least after 48 hours, it looks like the usage increase is almost 
> linear. (Although logarithmic may still be the case after it exceeds a 
> gig or two of used memory. :) I'm not sure if this is something that I 
> should expect from the current gc, and when it would stop.
> 
> Now, as I stated above, I am certain that at least some of this 
> increased memory usage is due to either un-collectable objects in the 
> python code, or memory leaks in the pyrex code (where I make some use of 
> malloc/free). I am working on finding and removing these issues, but 
> from what I've seen  with the help of gc UNCOLLECTABLE traces, there are 
> not many un-collectable reference issues at least. Yes, there are some 
> but definitely not enough to justify growth like I am seeing. The pyrex 
> side should not be leaking too much, I'm very good about freeing what I 
> allocate in pyrex/C land. I will be running that linked to a memory leak 
> finding library in the next few days. Past the code reviews I've done, 
> what makes me think that I don't have any *wild* leaks going on at least 
> with the pyrex code is that I am seeing the same type of growth patterns 
> in both apps, and I don't use any pyrex with the director. Yes, the 
> harvester is consuming much more memory, but it also does the majority 
> of the heavy lifting.
> 
> I am alright with the app not freeing all the memory it can between high 
> and low activity times, but what puzzles me is how the memory usage just 
> keeps on growing and growing. Will it ever stop?
> 
> What I would like to know if others on this list have had similar 
> problems with python's gc in long running, larger python applications. 
> Am I crazy or is this a real problem with python's gc itself? If it's a 
> python gc issue, then it's my opinion that we will need to enhance the 
> gc before python can really gain leverage as a language suitable for 
> "enterprise-class" applications. I have surprised many other programmers 
> that I'm writing an application like this in python/pyrex that works 
> just as well and even more efficiently than the C/C++/Java competitors. 
> The only thing I have left to show is that the app lasts as long between 
> restarts. ;)
> 
> 
> Robby
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From list at notmyisp.pl  Wed Oct  5 06:54:13 2005
From: list at notmyisp.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:54:13 +0200
Subject: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4343b0d5$1@news.home.net.pl>

beza1e1 wrote:
> Coming back from a bug hunt, i am not sure what to think of this python
> behaviour. Here is a demo program:
> 
> class A:
>    def __init__(self, lst=[]):
>       self.lst = lst
> 
> a = A()
> b = A()
> b.lst.append("hallo")
> print a.lst # output: ["hallo"]
> 
> The point seems to be, that lst=[] creates a class attribute (correct
> name?), which is shared by all instances of A. So a.lst ist the same
> object as b.lst, despite the fact, that object a is different to object
> b.
> 

It is an *instance attribute* by nature, since it does not reside in the 
class object, but only in its instances. The truth is, that a.lst and 
b.lst point to the same memory object, so it seems to behave much like 
the class attribute :)

It is no more different from the simple fact, that two variables 
(attributes) may point to the same memory object, like you see below:

a = b = []
a.append("hallo")
print b #output: ["hallo"]

In fact, it is usually a bad practice to assign instance attributes a 
reference to the compound variable, existing in an external scope. Example:

aList = []

class A:
   def __init__(self, lst): #no default attribute!
     self.lst = lst

a = A(aList)
aList.append("hallo")
print a.lst #output: ["hallo"]

and your default value (, lst=[]) IS such an variable! The bad thing is, 
that the value of the instance attribute 'lst' (example above) depends 
on the external variable, which may be independently modified, thus 
modifying unexpectedly the instance attribute. The safer approach, of 
course is to write:

class A:
   def __init__(self, lst): #no default attribute!
     self.lst = lst[:] #take a copy

Summing up, is it an error, or a feature? I would say - a feature. 
Everyone should be aware, that the argument default values are evaluated 
once, and the same value (memory object) is reused at each instance 
creation.

Best regards,
Tomasz Lisowski


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 11 08:46:22 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:46:22 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com><pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org><pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org><pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><mailman.1796.1128872448.509.python-list@python.org><pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102238590.18783@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <digc6u$82a$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tom Anderson wrote:

> Okay, a crack at a definition: a closure is a function in which some of
> the variable names refer to variables outside the function. And i don't
> mean global variables - i mean somebody else's locals; call them 'remote
> variables'.

in Python, the global variables are someone else's locals.

</F> 





From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Sun Oct  9 16:00:04 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:00:04 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python reliability
Message-ID: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

I would need to make some high-reliability software
running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
(or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.

The piece of software is rather simple, probably a
few hundred lines of code in Python. There is a need 
to interact with network using the socket module, 
and then probably a need to do something hardware-
related which will get its own driver written in
C.

Threading and other more error-prone techniques can
be left aside, everything can run in one thread with
a poll loop.

The software should be running continously for 
practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
leak-free enough to achieve this?

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 22:49:44 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:49:44 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
>>
>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.
>
>    That's almost as convincing as "that's what you think".

Taken literally, you think MS has no obligation to obey the law, to
its customers, to its employees.  

I don't think you will find many CEOs espousing those sentiments,
though you will in alt.politics.bush from those who have just read
their first book outside of school reading and picked an Ayn Rand
novel.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct 28 05:17:52 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 09:17:52 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndm3p71.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <slrndm3r60.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-28, Antoon Pardon schreef <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be>:
> Op 2005-10-26, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
>>
>
> These are the results.
>
><class '__main__.cla'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 10.061425 secs
><class '__main__.clb'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long,  9.544035 secs
><class '__main__.clc'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 10.450864 secs
><class '__main__.cld'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 15.566061 secs
><class '__main__.cle'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 15.776443 secs
>
> Results on a longer sequence were:
>
><class '__main__.cla'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 146.722443 secs
><class '__main__.clb'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 139.480863 secs
><class '__main__.clc'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 152.623424 secs
><class '__main__.cld'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 224.630926 secs
><class '__main__.cle'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 228.663825 secs
>
> The most interesting result of this test is the difference between
> cld and cle. IMO this difference is an indication of the cost
> that my idea would have on sorting, should it be implemented.
> That would be around 2%. I think that is bearable. Especially
> since this were very simple routines. The moment the comparison
> calculation become heavier, the relative contribution of the
> try: except will diminuish.
>
> If you are concerned about sorting times, I think you should
> be more concerned about Guido's idea of doing away with __cmp__.
> Sure __lt__ is faster. But in a number of cases writing __cmp__
> is of the same complexity as writing __lt__. So if you then
> need a __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__ and __ge__ it
> would be a lot easier to write a __cmp__ and have all rich
> comparisons methods call this instead of duplicating the code
> about six times. So you would be more or less forced to write
> your class as class cld or cle. This would have a bigger
> impact on sorting times than my suggestion.

And as an afterthought: Adding __slots__ increased the
sorting speed between 7.5 and 9.0%

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Sat Oct  8 03:49:05 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 09:49:05 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <434779F1.9080508@designaproduct.biz>

Dave wrote:

> Hello All,
>  
> I would like to gather some information on Python's runtime 
> performance. As far as I understand, it deals with a lot of string 
> objects. Does it require a lot string processing during program 
> execution? How does it handle such time-consuming operations? Is there 
> a way to find out how many string operations (perhaps in the 
> underlying system) ) it does during program execution?

Do you want to know how many internal string operations are done inside 
the Python interpreter? I believe it is not a useful information. There 
are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.

For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602


   Les



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 27 15:05:28 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:05:28 -0400
Subject: help with sending data out the parallel port
In-Reply-To: <MtCdnSUnmpK_vP3enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>
References: <MtCdnSUnmpK_vP3enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <hKqdnZ5E6MSfuPzeRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

David wrote:
> I'm wondering if python is capable of fairly precise timing and also sending
> data out the parallel port.
> 
> For example ; making a 7.5 KHz square wave come out of one of the data pins
> on the printer port.
> 
> I've tried to help myself with this one but searching in the "Python Library
> Reference" that installed with my version, [ Python 2.4.1. ]  yielded
> nothing on the subject of either timing or parallel port.

What are you trying to use this for?  What kind of jitter does your 
specification allow?  (That is, since you can't get the edge transitions 
exactly 66.6 microseconds apart all the time, how much variation are you 
able to handle?)  What will happen if, say, once every five or ten 
seconds the OS hiccups and prevents your task from running for a full 
second?

Doing this kind of high-speed realtime control on a non-realtime 
operating system is generally difficult or impossible, but it does 
depend on how precise you need to be, and how "soft" your realtime 
requirements are.  My gut feeling is that you cannot achieve what you 
want using Python on Windows (or Linux!), but it depends on your needs, 
not my gut. :-)

-Peter


From dezmodue at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 03:52:01 2005
From: dezmodue at gmail.com (Simone)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:52:01 +0200
Subject: Repost: Text not showing up
In-Reply-To: <434FADFA.8050302@gmail.com>
References: <434FADFA.8050302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43535821.20108@gmail.com>

Simone wrote:

>Hi all, I am new to python and trying to write a simple GUI that would 
>call 2 growisofs processes (dvd burning) at the same time, and retrive 
>the exit code to be printed on a text box (couldn't find any program 
>that could use multiple dvd burners, not even k3b). Excuse me if this is 
>really a simple problem, but two days of googling didn't help.
> The program is really simple, I developed the GUI using glade and it 
>works.
>The only thing I would like to improve is that I'd like it to show in 
>the text boxes messages like "Waiting for use input" or "Burning dvd 
>please wait", but it looks like even though I don't have any error, the 
>message won't show up until the burning process is finished (showing 
>either "burning successfully" or "an error occurred").
>I am not sure I made myself clear on this, but I will post the relevant 
>code trying to explain it:
>
>import os, sys
>import gtk.glade
>       
>class DVD:
>   
> 
>    def __init__(self):
>        print "Initializing the Graphic User Interface: This may take 
>some time"
>        self.xml=gtk.glade.XML("./dvd2.xml") 
>        self.window=self.xml.get_widget("dvd")
>        self.xml.signal_connect('on_quit_clicked', self.Quit)
>        self.xml.signal_connect('on_burn_clicked', self.Burn)   
>        
>self.OrdKeys=["comboentry1","entry1","spinbutton1","entry2","esitotext","esitotext1"]  
># here esitotext is the box I want the text to show up
>
>
>
>    def Quit(self, *args):
>        gtk.mainquit()
>
>    def Burn(self, *args):
>
>        comand=""
>        comand2=""
>
>        name=self.xml.get_widget("entry1").get_text()            #name 
>for the dvd
>        path=self.xml.get_widget("comboentry1").get_text()   #path to 
>dvd AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS
>        num=self.xml.get_widget("spinbutton1").get_text()      #chosing 
>the number of dvd to burn
>        pub=self.xml.get_widget("entry2").get_text()                
>#publisher
>        self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("Waiting for 
>input")     #    THIS NEVER SHOWS UP
>
>       
>        dvd1="/dev/hda"                         # this is the first dvd 
>burner, edit as needed
>        dvd2="/dev/hdc"                         # this is the second dvd 
>burner, edit as needed
>
>
>
>        comand+="growisofs -dvd-compat -Z "+dvd1+" -dvd-video -V 
>"+name+" -publisher "+pub+" "+path 
>        comand2+="growisofs -dvd-compat -Z "+dvd2+" -dvd-video -V 
>"+name+" -publisher "+pub+" "+path
>
>
>        if num == "1":
>            self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("Burning the dvd, 
>please wait")    #      THIS NEVER SHOWS UP, unless i have an error and 
>the program
>                                                                        
>                                                       #      quits 
>before executing the command
>            self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").show()                     
>                                   #      don't know if this is correct, 
>but it doesn't work either
>            f = os.popen(comand, 'r')
>            line = f.readline()
>
>            error_in_prog = f.close()
>            if error_in_prog:
>                error=str(error_in_prog)
>                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("An error 
>occurred. Burn not completed")  # THIS COMES UP as it should
>                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").show()
>            else:
>                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("Burn 
>completed successfully")                    # THIS COMES UP as it should
>                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").show()
>
>
>if __name__=='__main__':
>    main=DVD()
>    gtk.main()
>
>
>Any comment, help, url, really appreciated.
>
>Have a nice day
>Simone
>
>
>
>  
>



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Mon Oct  3 17:05:37 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:05:37 -0500
Subject: Convert hex to string
In-Reply-To: <1128370840.468590.27030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128370840.468590.27030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <DL2dnWF-ToiCANzeRVn-pA@comcast.com>

It contains non-printing and non-ASCII characters so it can't be
printed lie you want.  The best Python can do is to show you
the hexadecimal of those bytes (as it has done).  Printable ASCII
characters lie in the range 32 decimal (20 hex) to 125 decimal
(7F hex).  Those characters in that range are shown properly.

Example:  There is no printable ASCII character for the first
character which is \x01.  My ASCII table shows that this
character represents an ASCII SOH (start of heading) character.

-Larry Bates

Java and Swing wrote:
> I have some output stored in a string that looks like..
> 
> 
>>>x
> 
> '\x01\xee\x1eo\xc3+\x8b\x83\xfad\xf6E\xaa\x0ea/I\x96\x83\xf5G\xa3\rQ\xfcH\xee\r'
> 
> 
> According to, http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html, this is
> "Unsigned Hexidecimal (lowercase)".  How can I get this into normal
> Ascii so that I can read it?
> 
> thanks.
> 


From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 23 09:00:03 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 06:00:03 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130072403.157932.147930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

>>> id("blub")
-1210548288

This is not identity in a mathematical view.

def identity(x): return x

It has is uses. I had some kind of parser and had a dict like this:
{case: function, ...} It had to be a dict, because i wanted to
dynamically add and remove cases. In some cases nothing had to be done.
To represent this in the dict a identity function is needed. There
surely are other ways, but identity was the most expressive in my eyes.

Nice read, by the way. Thanks for sharing ;)



From lidenalex at yahoo.se  Tue Oct 11 01:56:39 2005
From: lidenalex at yahoo.se (Alex)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 22:56:39 -0700
Subject: Batteries Included?
Message-ID: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

One of the first things I wanted to do when I start learning Python was
to produce a simple standalone application that I could distribute to
my users (windows users). Python's moto is "Batteries Included", but
where are the batteries for making exe files and making an installer
file? I had to download, install and use py2exe and Inno Setup in order
to accomplish this. I might be wrong expecting that a language whose
moto is "Batteries Included" would be able to produce exe files. Are
there plans to do this in the future version of Python?

Alex



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct 17 07:14:43 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:14:43 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F1E46CEDEE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<khz4f.25000$pJ3.1035408@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F1E46CEDEE6castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <DIL4f.25340$f21.601178@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

John Bokma wrote:
> Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>But that's not the point; the point is that they have the choice. 
>>If MS had it its way, they wouldn't have that choice.
> 
> 
> I doubt that. But even if you're right, do you really think that MS is 
> the only evil company on earth working like this? Do you really think 
> that companies like Disney, Sony, Intel, AMD, Apple, etc work any 
> different?

No, I do not think that MS is the only company that uses shady tactics.
Also I didn't use the word 'evil', since I think it is too strong for
what even MS does. But the fact is that MS is convicted for abusing its
monopoly position.

>>>>- An application works in IE, Firefox, Konqueror, Safari, Lynx,
>>>>Links, Opera, ... -> users can use it with any browser on any OS
>>>
>>>I think that we both understand that one browser will be more
>>>compatible then an other. It will only happen if all use exactly the
>>>same render engine, or all web recommendations are frozen.
>>
>>Thousands and thousands of website work perfectly in all of the
>>aforementioned websites right now.
> 
> 
> Maybe you define perfectly different then me, but have a look at the 
> Acid tests for example. Even between minor versions of for example 
> Firefox, or Opera there are differences in rendering. I won't call that 
> perfectly, but maybe because I am a programmer.

Differences in rendering are perfectly acceptable on the World Wide Web.
 That's one point where web graphics differ from graphics in press.

>>>Look at processors: which one would you buy at the moment? AMD?
>>>Intel? and if you pick a brand, which type?
>>
>>Depends on my needs, budget and the specs and price of the available
>>offers. Plus I always have a small, admittedly perhaps unjustified,
>>preference for the underdog; in the past that was AMD, in the future
>>that may very well be Intel. But I don't see the point of that
>>question.
> 
> 
> Others just pick Intel, because it's Intel. The same is happening for
> MS. People just buy MS, they don't care that it's cheaper (or maybe 
> "cheaper") to install Linux + OpenOffice (for example). MS, so it's 
> good.

Popularity is not the same as quality.

I still fail to see your point. The original issue was the browser wars.
Tim Roberts wondered why Microsoft went through the efforst of
dominating the browser market, even if they don't make any money on IE.
David Schwartz gave the answer: MS did it to prevent the OS from
becoming a commodity, since that would allow users to freely choose
their own OS.

You seem to be saying that that is not their intention, since users will
always prefer Windows as their OS anyhow. Well I don't think so, but
just maybe you're right. But I'm pretty sure MS didn't want to take the
chance, and did what it did for the reason David gave.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct 12 19:12:46 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:12:46 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:46:12 +0000, Tim Tyler wrote:

> Viruses can mail out change of address messages to everyone in the
> compromised machine's address book today.
> 
> Of course, viruses don't bother doing that - since it's stupid and
> pointless.
> 
> If you've compromised someone's machine there are typically lots more 
> rewarding things to do with it than spoof change-of-address notices.

Yes. But erasing hard drives is stupid and pointless, and viruses written
by digital vandals do exactly that.

Viruses *these days* are mostly written by criminals looking to make
money, not criminals looking to do the equivalent of smashing your windows
and running away.

Suppose I wanted to gather industrial espionage about, oh, say Roedy
Green. If my virus could impersonate him, I could tell everyone in sight
that his email has changed to rgreen at mydomain.ru (or wherever). I would
harvest his email, forward it on to him so he doesn't even notice, and
sell the data to the highest bidder. Or use it for blackmail. Or sell it
to companies who want to buy demographic and purchasing information ("I
see he has bought seven books from Amazon this month...").

If you think this is too ridiculous for words, think of this: how valuable
to Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates do you think Google's internal emails
would be?

Information is power, and power makes money.


-- 
Steven.



From jwentingathornetdotdemondotnl  Sat Oct 15 01:52:57 2005
From: jwentingathornetdotdemondotnl (Jeroen Wenting)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 07:52:57 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>


>>
>>    Q: Microsoft's Operating System is used over 90% of PCs. If that's
>>not monopoly, i don't know what is.
>
> They got where they are  by CHEATING.  That is why they are evil, not
> because they have a large market share.

no, they got their by clever marketing and generally having a product that 
was easier to use for the average user than anything the competition made 
and a lot more powerful than other products created for their main target 
market.

Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either.
If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be no 
other software manufacturers at all.
Prices would be far far higher than they are today, like they were back in 
the days before Microsoft started competing with the likes of Ashton Tate 
and WordPerfect corporation by offering similar products at 20% the price 
(which is the real reason they got to be top dog, they delivered a working 
product for a fraction of the price their competition did, and the 
competition couldn't drop their prices that much and remain profitable).

Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
mainframe terminals.
IBM's prediction that there would be 5 computers (not counting game 
computers like the Comodores and Spectrums) by 2000 would likely have come 
true. 




From steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au  Tue Oct  4 05:05:57 2005
From: steve at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:05:57 +1000
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> 
>>Declared variables have considerable labour costs, and only marginal
>>gains. Since the steps you take to protect against other errors will also
>>protect against mistyping variables, declarations of variables is of
>>little practical benefit.
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell, this is as much hearsay and personal experience
> as the alternate claim that not having them costs you lots of
> debugging time and errors. If anyone has pointers to real research
> into this area (I've heard the TRAK folks did some, but haven't been
> able to turn any up), I'd love to hear it.

Sorry, I have no hard research to point to. If I did, I 
would have referenced it.

> My gut reaction is that it's a wash. The time taken to declare
> variables in well-written code in a well-designed language - meaning
> the declarations and use will be close together - isn't all that
> great, but neither are the savings.

It isn't the typing time to declare variables, it is 
the context switching. You're focused on implementing 
an algorithm, realise you need to declare another 
variable, your brain does a mini-context switch, you 
scroll up to the declaration section, you declare it, 
you scroll back to where you were, and now you have to 
context switch again.

You've gone from thinking about the implementation of 
the algorithm to thinking about how to satisfy the 
requirements of the compiler. As context switches go, 
it isn't as big as the edit-compile-make-run method of 
testing, but it is still a context switch.

Or you just code without declaring, intending to go 
back and do it later, and invariably forget.

[snip]

> If I'm going to get compiler support for semantic checking like this,
> I want it to serious levels. I want function pre/post conditions
> checked. I want loop and class invariant checked. I want subsumption
> in my inheritance tree. Nuts - I want a complete, well-designed
> inheritance tree. Duck typing is great stuff, but if I'm going to be
> doing the work to declare everything, I want *everything* that can be
> checked checked.

We like to think of programming as a branch of 
engineering. It isn't, not yet.

I've worked for architects who were involved in some 
major engineering projects. One of the things I learnt 
is that there are times when you need to specify 
objects strictly. When only a 5% titanium stainless 
steel alloy will do, then *only* a 5% titanium 
stainless steel alloy will do. That's when you want 
strict type-checking.

But the rest of the time, just about any stainless 
steel will do, and sometimes you don't even care if it 
is steel -- iron will do the job just as well. If the 
nail is hard enough to be hammered into the wood, and 
long enough to hold it in place, it is good enough for 
the job. That's the real-world equivalent of duck typing.

Static typed languages that do all those checks are the 
equivalent of building the space shuttle, where 
everything must be specified in advance to the nth 
degree: it must not just be a three inch screw, but a 
three inch Phillips head anti-spark non-magnetic 
corrosion-resistant screw rated to a torque of 
such-and-such and capable of resisting vaccuum welding, 
extreme temperatures in both directions, and exposure 
to UV radiation. For that, you need a compiler that 
will do what Mike asks for: check *everything*.

I don't know whether there are languages that will 
check everything in that way. If there aren't, then 
perhaps there should be. But Python shouldn't be one of 
them. Specifying every last detail about the objects 
making up the space shuttle is one of the reasons why 
it costs umpty-bazillion dollars to build one, and 
almost as much to maintain it -- and it still has a 
safety record worse than most $10,000 cars.

That level of specification is overkill for most 
engineering projects, and it's overkill for most 
programming projects too. It is all well and good to 
tear your hair and rip your clothes over the 
possibility of the language allowing some hidden bug in 
the program, but get over it: there is always a trade 
off to be made between cost, time and risk of bugs. 
Python is a language that makes the trade off one way 
(fast development, low cost, high flexibility, moderate 
risk) rather than another (slow development, high cost, 
low flexibility, low risk).

We make the same trade offs in the real world too: the 
chair you sit on is not built to the same level of 
quality as the space shuttle, otherwise it would cost 
$100,000 instead of $100. Consequently, sometimes 
chairs break. Deal with it.


-- 
Steven.



From deets at web.de  Thu Oct 13 08:20:57 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 05:20:57 -0700
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
In-Reply-To: <dileg1$1t2$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
	<3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de> <dil4t3$95o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<3r6p5oFhvtg1U1@uni-berlin.de> <dileg1$1t2$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1129206057.333744.161010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


> Are we talking about the same setdefault()?
>
>
>     D.setdefault(k[,d]) -> D.get(k,d), also set D[k]=d if k not in D
>
> There is no per-instance default value just on per call:

Oh. You're right. I was somehow under the impression that setdefault is
per-instance, so that I can avoid

d.get(key, default)

and write

d[key]

instead, for all keys, and get no more KeyErrors. But then you are
right of course.

Regards,

Diez



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Sat Oct  8 21:55:06 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 18:55:06 -0700
Subject: Daisy Daisy, give me your answer do
In-Reply-To: <cone.1128813996.624626.6322.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
References: <1128802217.156887.234490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128807595.122982.310790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cone.1128813996.624626.6322.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
Message-ID: <200510081855.06066.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Saturday 08 October 2005 16:26, Sam wrote:
> Xah Lee writes:
> > Dear Michael Goettsche,
> >
> > why don't you lead the pack to be on-topic for a change, huh?
>
> Why don't you:
>
> 1.  Learn how to properly format messages for posting to Usenet, so that
> your scribblings don't read like stream-of-consciousness babbling
> (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting).
>

Sam:

His scribblings *are* babbling, as I am sure you are quite aware. (Your 
predisposition for congeniality is showing through here.) Formatting would 
not help...unless, of course, he marks it up with "Rich Backspace 
Formatting" (RBF). Ideally, he would backspace once for every character.

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 30 23:33:22 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:33:22 -0500
Subject: Message about not deleted folders using Inno Setup
In-Reply-To: <dk3nip$ksg$1@inews.gazeta.pl>
References: <dk3nip$ksg$1@inews.gazeta.pl>
Message-ID: <oMudncHZ7NwPA_jenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@powergate.ca>

Martin wrote:
>    I would like to place a message in an uninstaller window which will
> inform the user that some folders haven't been deleted. Is that possible 
> using
> Inno Setup?

Probably, but this newsgroup is for discussion of Python.  Unless you 
have some kind of Python angle to your question, a mailing list or 
something for InnoSetup would be a more appropriate place to ask.

-Peter


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Oct 17 15:27:31 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:27:31 +0200
Subject: ordered keywords?
In-Reply-To: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <owR4f.197730$p_1.53387@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3ric96Fjni97U1@uni-berlin.de>

Ron Adam wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to preserve or capture the order which keywords are given?
> 
>  >>> def foo(**kwds):
> ...    print kwds
> ...
>  >>> foo(one=1, two=2, three=3)
> {'three': 3, 'two': 2, 'one': 1}
> 
> 
> I would love to reverse the *args, and **kwds as well so I can  use kwds 
> to set defaults and initiate values and args to set the order of 
> expressions.
> 
> 
> def foo(**__dict__, *args):
>       print args
> 
> print foo(x=10, y=20, x, y, x+y)
> [10, 20, 30]

This is not simply about reversing the order of kwargs and args - this 
would require that keyword args would create bindings to variable names 
in the scope of the caller. Which is an enterily different beast. And a 
major semantic change in python, so it's not possible or at least not 
happening before Python 3K.

Regards,

Diez



From pmartin at snakecard.com  Wed Oct 26 10:00:09 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:00:09 GMT
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <JZL7f.7111$7h7.345@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

I use gvim.

regards,

Philippe



Xah Lee wrote:

> in some online documentations, for examples:
> 
> http://perldoc.perl.org/perlref.html
> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-17.html
> http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellDemo
> 
> the codes are syntax colored.
> 
> Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>  Xah
>  xah at xahlee.org
> ? http://xahlee.org/



From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 13:46:10 2005
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Luis M. Gonzalez)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 10:46:10 -0700
Subject: New project coming up...stay with Python,
	or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
In-Reply-To: <1128446202.858491.240700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhrd6q$rd7$1@news.isdn.net>
	<1128428885.390019.304730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432576.708995.19060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128436552.877409.296480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128446202.858491.240700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128447970.707787.50050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> that Boo isn't enough like Python to
> be a kind of Python - not necessarily a criticism, though, but an
> observation.

This is correct. I completely agree with you and I'm not saying that
boo is python.
Again, I just said that it could be considered "almost" a static python
implementation for .NET. It has many similarities, but also some
fundamental differences, therefore, it is a different language.

However, I think its similarities make it "pythonic" enough (or closely
related to python) to be considered, commented and appreciated by the
people in this mailing list.

Unfortunately, others disagree with this idea, and insist (over and
over again) that Boo is not python or that it has nothing to do with
it.



From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 01:47:21 2005
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (B Mahoney)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 22:47:21 -0700
Subject: Expat - how to UseForeignDTD
References: <1129786744.782887.80130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129873641.859405.78190@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I needed to set Entity Parsing, such as

parser.SetParamEntityParsing( expat.XML_PARAM_ENTITY_PARSING_ALWAYS )



From anenem at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 14:38:56 2005
From: anenem at gmail.com (robert)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:38:56 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb and cgi
Message-ID: <d507192f0510301138j66fa47d0rc595d527747a19d@mail.gmail.com>

 Dear group,

I have a problem with importing MySQLdb in a cgi-script.
The code fragment at the beginning:

1 #!/usr/bin/env python
2
3 print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
4
5 import re
6 import cgi
7 import MySQLdb
8 print "something"

but the print statement in line 8 will never be executed. The Apache error
log says:
"No module named MySQLdb, referer: http://localhost/sqlForm.html"

But when executing the import statement outside of an cgi-script, for
example at the command line, the import works fine.
I assume, it has something to do with the apache. Why does the python
interpreter not find the MySQLdb module when executed in
apache context?

thanks, roebi
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From donn at drizzle.com  Tue Oct 25 11:29:12 2005
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:29:12 -0000
Subject: Read/Write from/to a process
References: <1130163642.868252.148070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<u3vpl1loivbmhgjmqum90hij7r84sb5pnq@4ax.com>
	<1130174259.472124.114790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<eddrl19l697jd3v9jn18rf295b2ei60e05@4ax.com>
	<1130242940.918480.65020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2540.1130243790.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130245185.304132.110840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130254148.192702@yasure>

Quoth "jas" <codecraig at gmail.com>:
| Steve Holden wrote:
|> Look at how you might do it in other languages. Then you'll realise this
|> isn't (just) a Python problem.
|
| Yea your right.  However, for example, in Java, one can use the Process
| class, and then read from the stream until its the end (i.e. -1 is
| returned).  However, with Python when reading from
| subprocess.Popen.stdout ...I don't know when to stop (except for
| looking for a ">" or something).  Is there a standard, like read until
| "-1" or something?

Sure, end of file is '', a string with 0 bytes.  That means the other
end of the pipe has closed, usually due to exit of the other process
that was writing to it.  Not much help for you there, nor would the
Java equivalent be, I presume.

Even on UNIX, where pipes are a mainstay of ordinary applications,
this one would very likely need a pseudotty device instead, to prevent
C library block buffering, and it would still be difficult and unreliable.

Ironically the best support I've seen came from a platform that didn't
use pipes much at all, VAX/VMS (I put that in the past tense because
for all I know it may have evolved in this respect.)  The pipe-like
VMS device was called a "mailbox", and the interesting feature was
that you could be notified when a read had been queued on the device.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From programmer.py at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 11:22:23 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:22:23 -0500
Subject: Installing Python at Work
In-Reply-To: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510170822k4b0692c1v17c9666e3c59a4ce@mail.gmail.com>

The python interpreter doesn't do anything other than what you tell
it.  That is, the standard python installation does not install any
`secret programs' that run in the background.

Like most tools, Python is as benign as it's user.  However, unlike
most tools even benign users can be powerful.  Wow, I just stated
somewhat conflicting statements ;)

jw

On 17 Oct 2005 08:12:35 -0700, Nikola <tsaparas4life at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm currently learning Python for my own use.
> I'm considering installing it on a work laptop, knowing that it is
> non-licensed, distributable software.
>
> However, does it access communication ports?  I know the company checks
> their ports regularly for activity.
>
> I won't be doing anything very serious; I'm just trying out Python,
> learning the basics from 'Learning Python' by O'Reilly.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 06:49:20 2005
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (NickC)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 03:49:20 -0700
Subject: Log rolling question
References: <1130259387.787107.120740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130323760.319391.83900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If you're on Python 2.4, then consider whether or not you can use a
TimedRotatingLogFileHandler from the logging module to handle this for
you:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/node344.html

Of course, that only works if defining a "month" as 30 days is
acceptable. If you genuinely need calendar months, then you still need
to do it manually.



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 29 01:38:21 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:38:21 -0400
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net> <3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <864q70evci.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Paul Watson" <pwatson at redlinepy.com> writes:
> Here is a better one that counts, and not just detects, the substring.  This 
> is -much- faster than using mmap; especially for a large file that may cause 
> paging to start.  Using mmap can be -very- slow.
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import sys
>
> fn = 't2.dat'
> ss = '\x00\x00\x01\x00'
>
> be = len(ss) - 1        # length of overlap to check
> blocksize = 64 * 1024    # need to ensure that blocksize > overlap
>
> fp = open(fn, 'rb')
> b = fp.read(blocksize)
> count = 0
> while len(b) > be:
>     count += b.count(ss)
>     b = b[-be:] + fp.read(blocksize)
> fp.close()
>
> print count
> sys.exit(0) 
>
>

Did you do timings on it vs. mmap? Having to copy the data multiple
times to deal with the overlap - thanks to strings being immutable -
would seem to be a lose, and makes me wonder how it could be faster
than mmap in general.

     Thanks,
     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 10 14:34:27 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:34:27 -0000
Subject: convert char to byte representation
References: <mailman.1852.1128968136.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434AB205.8000304@websafe.com>
Message-ID: <11kld1jrulcri13@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-10, Larry Bates <larry.bates at websafe.com> wrote:

>> I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a string with
>> its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a char into its byte
>> representation. This is to calculate the nmea checksum for gps data.

> ord(c) gives you decimal representation of a character.

While ord(c) is what the OP needs, it doesn't give a decimal
represention -- which I guess would be a string like "65" for
the ASCII characer "A".  What ord() gives you is an integer
object with the value of the character [which the hardware
stores in binary on all of the platforms I'm aware of].

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Hmmm... A hash-singer
                                  at               and a cross-eyed guy were
                               visi.com            SLEEPING on a deserted
                                                   island, when...


From xah at xahlee.org  Tue Oct 11 18:58:27 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 15:58:27 -0700
Subject: Python Doc Problem Example: sort() (reprise)
In-Reply-To: <1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129033426.009136.256600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129071507.829655.252340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Addendum, 200510

Here's further example of Python's extreme low quality of
documentation. In particular, what follows focuses on the bad writing
skill aspect, and comments on some language design and quality issues
of Python.

>From the Official Python documentation of the sort() method, at:
http://python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/typesseq-mutable.html, Quote:

?The sort() method takes optional arguments for controlling the
comparisons.?

It should be ?optional parameter? not ?optional argument?.
Their difference is that ?parameter? indicates the variable, while
?argument? indicates the actual value.

?... for controlling the comparisons.?

This is a bad writing caused by lack of understanding. No, it doesn't
?control the comparison?. The proper way to say it is that ?the
comparison function specifies an order?.

?The sort() and reverse() methods modify the list in place for economy
of space when sorting or reversing a large list. To remind you that
they operate by side effect, they don't return the sorted or reversed
list. ?

This is a example of tech-geeking drivel. The sort() and reverse()
methods are just the way they are. Their design and behavior are really
not for some economy or remind programers of something. The Python doc
is bulked with these irrelevant drivels. These littered inanities
dragged down the whole quality and effectiveness of the doc implicitly.

?Changed in version 2.4: Support for key and reverse was added.?

?In general, the key and reverse conversion processes are much faster
than specifying an equivalent cmp function. This is because cmp is
called multiple times for each list element while key and reverse touch
each element only once.?

When sorting something, one needs to specify a order. The easiest way
is to simply list all the elements as a sequence. That way, their order
is clearly laid out. However, this is in general not feasible and
impractical. Therefore, we devised a mathematically condensed way to
specify the order, by defining a function f(x,y) that can take any two
elements and tell us which one comes first. This, is the gist of
sorting a list in any programing language.

The ordering function, being a mathematically condensed way of
specifying the order, has some constraints. For example, the function
should not tell us x < y and y < x. (For a complete list of these
constraints, see http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html )

With this ordering function, it is all sort needed to sort a list.
Anything more is interface complexity.

The optional parameters ?key? and ?reverse? in Python's sort
method is a interface complexity. What happened here is that a compiler
optimization problem is evaded by moving it into the language syntax
for programers to worry about. If the programer does not use the
?key? syntax when sorting a large matrix (provided that he knew in
advance of the list to be sorted or the ordering function), then he is
penalized by a severe inefficiency by a order of magnitude of execution
time.

This situation, of moving compiler problems to the syntax surface is
common in imperative languages.

?Changed in version 2.3: Support for None as an equivalent to omitting
cmp was added.?

This is a epitome of catering towards morons. ?myList.sort()? is
perfect but Pythoners had to add ?myList.sort(None)? interface
complexity just because idiots need it.

The motivation here is simple: a explicit ?None? gives coding
monkeys a direct sensory input of the fact that ?there is no
comparison function?. This is like the double negative in black
English ?I ain't no gonna do it!?. Logically, ?None? is not
even correct and leads to bad thinking. What really should be stated in
the doc, is that ?the default ordering function to sort() is the
?cmp? function.?.

?Starting with Python 2.3, the sort() method is guaranteed to be
stable. A sort is stable if it guarantees not to change the relative
order of elements that compare equal -- this is helpful for sorting in
multiple passes (for example, sort by department, then by salary
grade).?

One is quite surprised to read this. For about a decade of a language's
existence, its sort functionality is not smart enough to preserve
order?? A sort that preserves original order isn't something difficult
to implement. What we have here is sloppiness and poor quality common
in OpenSource projects.

Also note the extreme low quality of the writing. It employes the
jargon ?stable sort? then proceed to explain what it is, and the
latch on of ?multiple passes? and the mysterious ?by department,
by salary?.

Here's a suggested rewrite: ?Since Python 2.3, the result of sort()
no longer rearrange elements where the comparison function returns
0.?
-----------
This post is archived at:
http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 15:57:00 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:57:00 +0100
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129574592.754495.72530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129642964.690532.242710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510191257p7e6b936bv@mail.gmail.com>

On 19/10/05, James Stroud <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:
> The OP is obviously a troll.

Hey - let's not throw the T word around quite so freely. The OP did
say that he was switching to Windows "for unfortunate reasons", and
that OSX was "not as bad" as Windows.

Besides, it is possible to prefer Windows. Odd, but possible. Having
moved from Windows to Mac recently myself, I know *I* won't be
switching back, but reasonable men can differ.

--
Though-clearly-not-differ-with-me-ly y'rs,
Simon B.


From sam at email-scan.com  Sat Oct  1 10:51:26 2005
From: sam at email-scan.com (Sam)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:51:26 -0500
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<pzq%e.123$_%3.29184@newshog.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1128178288.564129.1259.500@commodore.email-scan.com>

Leif K-Brooks writes:

> Sam wrote:
>> And "foo if bar" is Perl-ish; yet, even Perl has the ? : operators.
> 
> What _isn't_ Perl-ish?

BASIC?


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From franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at  Wed Oct  5 04:50:00 2005
From: franz.steinhaeusler at gmx.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:50:00 +0200
Subject: IDLE dedent/unindent key bindings for non-us keybord?
References: <1128268373.613214.102500@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mi47k19luacs0bolnd6vjnptiks341306u@4ax.com>

On 2 Oct 2005 08:52:53 -0700, gjohannes at gmail.com wrote:

>Hi.
>
>I use Idle 1.1.1 on Python 2.4.1.
>
>The "Ctrl-[" and "Ctrl-]" key bindings for indenting do not work on
>non-us keyboards where brackets are accessed by the "Alt Gr" key.
>
>The Tab key seem to work for indenting a selected textblock on my
>swedish keyboard, but Shift-tab does not dedent as you would have
>expected.
>
>If I try to redefine key bindings in "options->Configure IDLE->Keys" so
>that Shift-Tab is bound to dedent, things seem to get really weird.
>
>After creating a "Custom key set"
>- the "Ok"-button does not close the options window, I have to use
>"Cancel" to get out.
>

I'v seen this also:
this must be a bug.


Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python24\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\configDialog.py", line 1197, in Apply
    self.ActivateConfigChanges()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\configDialog.py", line 1185, in
ActivateConfigCh
anges
    instance.ResetKeybindings()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\EditorWindow.py", line 585, in
ResetKeybindings
    self.apply_bindings()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\EditorWindow.py", line 837, in
apply_bindings
    text.event_add(event, *keylist)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1299, in event_add
    self.tk.call(args)
TclError: bad event type or keysym "tab"
Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python24\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\configDialog.py", line 1192, in Ok
    self.Apply()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\configDialog.py", line 1197, in Apply
    self.ActivateConfigChanges()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\configDialog.py", line 1185, in
ActivateConfigCh
anges
    instance.ResetKeybindings()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\EditorWindow.py", line 585, in
ResetKeybindings
    self.apply_bindings()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\EditorWindow.py", line 837, in
apply_bindings
    text.event_add(event, *keylist)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1299, in event_add
    self.tk.call(args)
TclError: bad event type or keysym "tab"


next time, I start:

C:\Python24\Lib\idlelib>idle.py
error reading package index file C:/Python24/tcl/tix8.1/pkgIndex.tcl:
invalid co
mmand name "lt}]}"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python24\Lib\idlelib\idle.py", line 21, in ?
    idlelib.PyShell.main()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 1355, in main
    if not flist.open_shell():
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 275, in open_shell
    self.pyshell = PyShell(self)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 793, in __init__
    OutputWindow.__init__(self, flist, None, None)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\OutputWindow.py", line 16, in __init__
    EditorWindow.__init__(self, *args)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\EditorWindow.py", line 108, in __init__
    self.apply_bindings()
  File "C:\Python24\lib\idlelib\EditorWindow.py", line 837, in
apply_bindings
    text.event_add(event, *keylist)
  File "C:\Python24\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1299, in event_add
    self.tk.call(args)
_tkinter.TclError: bad event type or keysym "tab"

(On Windows)
I discovered, looking in C:\.idlerc\config-keys.cfg

there was the entry
dedent-region = <Shift-Key-tab>

with an editor you can change it to uppercase:

dedent-region = <Shift-Key-Tab>

then it works again.

HTH


-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  9 06:43:35 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 06:43:35 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86ll13mlpn.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<diauqc.g8.1@news.isolution.nl>
Message-ID: <86vf07km20.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news at isolution.nl> writes:
> Let procmail make all those decisions and transformations for you.

I prefer qmail dot-commands. It provides an architecture for
controlling the delivery of email, and lets you write the smarts of
the mail processing in whatever language you want.

> I have a maildir called 'raw' where I keep a copy of all non-spammish
> mail.

I call mine archives. I also remove duplicate email before it gets to
the mailbox.

> Copies of the same messages also get delivered in the right mailboxes,
> by procmail.

Yup, qmail does that for me.

> A message that contains only html, is piped though lynx -dump -stdin.

I build a bounce message explaing that it wasn't read, and send that
back to the sender.

> A message containing both HTML and a plain/text-part, is de-mime-d,
> leaving only the plain/text-part (unless that part contains only a silly
> remark).
> Footers and long signatures are limited or even deleted. Etc., etc. (I
> like my mail cooked.)

I don't do those things. Then again - my mail reader makes deals with
them on request.

> One of the reasons that I started with Perl, is that I want to rewrite
> procmail in Perl.

Try qmail - it may solve the problem with a lot less work.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Fri Oct 28 04:20:01 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:20:01 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <djqmjq$7ff$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqjic$qb7$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<djqjrt$6dh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqkc0$qk2$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<djqmjq$7ff$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <djsmvh$jk$1@sadr.dfn.de>

David Schwartz wrote:
> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> 
> 
>>David Schwartz wrote:
> 
> 
>>>    Burger King won't let you sell Whoppers or buy their burger
>>>patties wholesale no matter what you want to call your store unless
>>>you take the whole franchise deal. It's an all-or-nothing package.
>>>With very few limits, companies do get to choose how their products
>>>are branded, marketed, and sold.
> 
> 
>>Yes, and that's not what Microsoft has ever done. There have always
>>been lots of shops selling Microsoft merchandise without being a
>>Microsoft franchise in the sense Burger King shops are.
> 
> 
>     Right, Microsoft imposed a lesser restriction. They allowed you to sell 
> competing products, but charged you a fee.
> 
> 
>>That's why I still say your comparison is a bad one.
> 
> 
>     It shows that Microsoft's purportedly draconian restrictions are much 
> less than restrictions that people don't even bat an eye at.
> 
>     DS
> 
> 

Ok, let me just make my opinion very clear on this and then I'll just 
leave this thread altogether.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges so whatever conclusion you 
manage to draw from that is in my eyes invalid. It doesn't matter, in my 
opinion, if you managed to conclude that Microsoft was the saints 
themselves because, in my opinion, your reasoning is not valid. I'm not 
saying one way or the other, I'm just picking at your reasoning.

To me it sounds like concluding that the prices of RAM will drop because 
the swallows are flying high this fall.

But enough, I'll just leave it.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From whzhao at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 04:52:41 2005
From: whzhao at gmail.com (Wenhua Zhao)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:52:41 +0800
Subject: How to create temp file in memory???
Message-ID: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>

A.T.T

Thanks a lot.


From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 21:25:31 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 18:25:31 -0700
Subject: Question about inheritance...
In-Reply-To: <_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130030731.105360.92200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

This is what I've got so far:
class Shape(object):
	def __init__(self):
		pass
	def render(self):
		print 'Shape render'
		self.outline()
	def outline(self):
		pass

class Rect(Shape):
	def __init__(self):
		super(self.__class__, self).__init__()
	def render(self):
		super(self.__class__, self).render()
	def outline(self):
		print 'Rect outline'

r = Rect()
r.render()

The output:

Shape render
Rect outline

Cool.. I guess its working..



From ron at vnetworx.net  Fri Oct 14 12:44:46 2005
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Ron Guerin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:44:46 -0400
Subject: NYLUG meeting: The Python Object Model with Alex Martelli & Google
	(open bar and food!)
Message-ID: <434FE07E.9070005@vnetworx.net>

The New York Linux User's Group invites you to a special presentation
by Alex Martelli of Google, on the Python Object Model.  This 
presentation will be held at P.J. Clarke's Sidecar, rather than our
usual location, and Google is picking up the tab for an hour and a half
of open bar and food.  Additionally, if you're looking for a job as a
Python developer, bring your resume.

Please RSVP at http://rsvp.nylug.org to attend, as seating is limited.

- Ron

(announcement follows)

               The New York Linux User's Group Presents
                            Alex Martelli
                               - on -
                       The Python Object Model

                    Held at P.J. Clarke's Sidecar
                 915 Third Avenue @ 55th Street - NY

Python is a multi-paradigm programming language, but, out of the
paradigms it supports, there is no doubt that OOP (Object Oriented
Programming) is the paradigm that forms Python's core. If you have done
any substantial programming with Python, you have, most likely, used
some of its OOP features. But -- have you ever stopped to really think
about those OOP features, the mechanisms that Python uses (and exposes!)
to implement them, and how best to make use of the possibilities this
state of things offers?

This subject is generally known as the "Object Model" of a language.
This talk stops a bit short of examining every level of Python's Object
Model -- in particular, it does not get into metatypes (metaclasses) and
similar levels of "Black Magic". Rather, the talk sticks to the most
practically interesting aspects of Python's Object Model as seen from
the point of view of a programmer using Python -- understanding exactly
what's going on in all kind of everyday OOP-usage situation, what
alternatives and trade-offs these mechanisms imply (for example, when
should you use closures, and when should you use functors instead? when
to inherit, and when to delegate instead?), and how Design Patterns play
into the mix (Python subsumes and build-ins some classic DPs, and makes a
few others irrelevant due to its highly dynamic typing, but other classic
DPs yet remain extremely relevant and important for optimal day to day
use of OOP in Python).

About Alex Martelli
-------------------
Alex Martelli is Uber Technical Lead at Google, in Production Software.
He wrote Python in a Nutshell and co-edited the Python Cookbook, and is
a member of the Python Software Foundation. Before joining Google,
Martelli spent 8 years with IBM, 12 with think3 inc, and 3 as a Python
freelance consultant, mostly for AB Strakt (Sweden).

P. J. Clarke's Sidecar
----------------------
915 Third Avenue @ 55th Street - NY

Sidecar is PJ Clarkes handsome semiprivate upstairs dining room.  You
enter Sidecar through a distinct yet discreet door on East 55th Street.

Subway:
Take the E, V or 6 Subways to 51st Street, cut over to Third Avenue and
walk north 4 blocks.

Take the 4, 5 or 6 Trains to 59th Street, cut over to Third and walk 4
blocks south.

Bus:
Take the 101, 102 or 103 Buses to 55th. If you're coming downtown on
Lexington, cut across to Third. If you're coming up on Third, it's right
across the street.

http://pjclarkes.com/htm/sidecar.htm

About NYLUG
-----------
NYLUG is the New York Linux Users Group, which has met every month
without fail for the last six years.  Meetings are free and open to the
public, but require advance RSVP due to fire code and security
requirements at our usual meeting space at the IBM Building.

Our announcements mailing list at
http://nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-announce provides a low-volume
but steady stream of Linux, Free and Open Source, and related community
and other user group announcements for the tri-state area.

Our technical discussion list is a moderate-volume list featuring a
diverse group that from home users to enterprise security experts.
http://nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk

http://www.nylug.org/


From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Mon Oct 10 07:10:10 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 04:10:10 -0700
Subject: dcop module under Python 2.4
References: <1128639872.036312.76620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3qmopvFfstbiU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1128942610.451519.113330@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi Diez,
thank you for your replay, but I didn't succeed (I am almost a newbye).

So I solved the problem in another manner:
I changed distribution from kubuntu to SUSE 9.3 (base installation).
Now I can import dcop and also pcop.
Bye.



From junhua.deng at ericsson.com  Thu Oct 27 11:34:45 2005
From: junhua.deng at ericsson.com (Junhua Deng (AL/EAB))
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:34:45 +0200
Subject: socket.error: (32, 'Broken pipe'): need help
Message-ID: <A760C39F7CB34F45B040C9D0D80F9BCA2EF5D2@esealmw106.eemea.ericsson.se>

Hi,
I have a simple server-client application with threading. It works fine when both server and client on the same machine, but I get the following error message if the server is on another machine:

... ...
    self.socket.send(outgoingMsg)
socket.error: (32, 'Broken pipe')

I do not know where to start with? 

Thanks
Junhua


From bonono at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 05:48:35 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 02:48:35 -0700
Subject: execution order in list/generator expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2433.1130060370.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130059544.215010.318610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2433.1130060370.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130060915.165468.241980@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Ah, no wonder. I test with p=[5,4].

thanks. so basically, I still need to expand it first given this
behaviour.

Robert Kern wrote:
> bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am wondering how this is evaluated.
> >
> > a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])
> > p=[4,5]
> >
> > c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]
> >
> > c is []
>
> No it isn't.
>
> In [1]: a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])
>
> In [2]: p=[4,5]
>
> In [3]: c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]
>
> In [4]: c
> Out[4]: [4]
>
> I'm willing to bet that you used up the 'a' iterator before you ran that
> list comprehension, though.
>
> In [5]: c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]
>
> In [6]: c
> Out[6]: []
>
> Note that "x in list(a)" gets executed on each iteration, but the
> iterator is used up on the first time.
>
> In [7]: a=(x for x in [1,2,3,4])
>
> In [8]: p = [4, 5, 2, 3]
>
> In [9]: c=[x for x in p if x in list(a)]
>
> In [10]: c
> Out[10]: [4]
>
> --
> Robert Kern
> rkern at ucsd.edu
>
> "In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
>  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
>   -- Richard Harter



From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 18:36:05 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:36:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python name lookups / Interning strings
In-Reply-To: <20051010224702.GB31497@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20051011223606.89640.qmail@web30611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:

> lookdict_string is used for most lookups of the form
> 	obj.attr
> because they are never found to have non-string keys
> entered or searched.
> 
> Furthermore, most of these string keys are
> "interned",
> which I believe makes the check
>         if (ep->me_key == NULL || ep->me_key == key)
>                 return ep;
> return a result without comparing the contents of
> the strings.

What exactly does it mean to "intern" a string?

Thanks!


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 17:50:22 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:50:22 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk> <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.40.32.740000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<0trik1ldrtvuhsdvoai4a7h34q7la1pehl@4ax.com>
	<dic3ju.1is.1@news.isolution.nl>
Message-ID: <8v0rk1hjh0k6q2estgqc19i0da59fgurse@4ax.com>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:53:52 +0200, "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news at isolution.nl>
wrote or quoted :

>Don't think that that is true for everybody. For example not for people
>that are behind central filters that already cope with common spam.

The variants of the Nigerian spam are getting cleverer and cleverer to
get though the filters.  I can't always immediately recognise them. No
wonder the spam filter gets fooled too.

We victims of spam collectively are about the silliest of victims
imaginable. We provide a FREE service to the spammers to torment us
with. WE SUBSIDISE THEM.  It costs them almost nothing to send a spam,
and even at the weakest response percentages they still make money.

It is almost like providing ladders and setting out cookies and milk
for the burglars.


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From tdwdotnet at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 09:35:50 2005
From: tdwdotnet at gmail.com (Tim Williams (gmail))
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 14:35:50 +0100
Subject: socketServer questions
In-Reply-To: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <9afea2ac0510080635n304c2589l@mail.gmail.com>

On 07/10/05, rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> wrote:
> I have written a python socketServer program and I have a few questions

This is a multithreaded non-blocking version of your server (not
tested), with a basic attempt to hande errors.

from socket import *
from SocketServer import *
import  time, threading, sys

class tr_server(ThreadingMixIn, TCPServer):
    def some_function(self):
        pass

class tr_handler(StreamRequestHandler):
    global write_to_file, file_path

    def handle(self):
        print "Current Connection count:", threading.activeCount() -1
        public_ip = self.client_address[0]
        serv_date = time.strftime('%Y-%m-%d', time.localtime())
        serv_time = time.strftime('%H:%M:%S', time.localtime())

        try:
            data = self.rfile.readline(300)
            data = str.strip(data)
            bytes = str(len(data))
            # Note that 'data; comes from the client.
            fp = file('/home/rbt/Desktop/tr_report.txt', 'a')
            fp.write(data+"\t"+serv_date+"\t"+serv_time+"\t"+public_ip+"\t"+bytes+"\n")
            fp.close()
        except:
            print "unknown error", sys.exc_info()[0]

def StartServer():
    setdefaulttimeout( 30  )  # timeout incoming connections
    server = tr_server(('', 55503 ), tr_handler)
    server.serve_forever()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    StartServer()

Consider putting the writing to file function in its own class or
thread.  Then opening the file once and appending the data to it from
each connection. Yoou would need to use fp.flush() after each
fp.write()  so that the data survives a program fail.

HTH :)


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 03:13:09 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:13:09 +0200
Subject: XML Tree Discovery (script, tool, __?)
References: <1130183060.195730.178330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1130193322.138313.320480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><mailman.2518.1130229776.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130261709.136041.144110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djnaa6$mh5$1@sea.gmane.org>

eric.pederson at gmail.com wrote:

> just namespace + tag

here's an ElementTree-based example:

    # http://effbot.org/tag/elementtree
    import elementtree.ElementTree as ET

    FILE = "example.xml"

    path = ()
    path_map = {}

    for event, elem in ET.iterparse(FILE, events=("start", "end")):
        if event == "start":
            path = path + (elem.tag,)
        else:
            path_map.setdefault(path, []).append(elem)
            path = path[:-1]
            elem.clear() # won't need the contents any more

    for path in path_map:
        print "/".join(path), len(path_map[path])

given this document:

    <document>
        <chapter>
            <title>chapter 1</title>
        </chapter>
        <chapter>
            <title>chapter 2</title>
        </chapter>
    </document>

the above script prints

    document 1
    document/chapter 2
    document/chapter/title 2

the script uses universal names for tags that live in a namespace.  for
information on how to decipher such names, see:

    http://www.effbot.org/zone/element.htm#xml-namespaces

hope this helps!

</F>





From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 19 16:49:26 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:49:26 -0400
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
	<4350dd34$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>
	<863bn12k6i.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ACE40E4F-6FB3-4085-AC1D-D927558474B4@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2182.1129575765.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xslv02aoj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<87psq39aur.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
	<7xwtkbud5q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1h4mhm2.1rmv4fh1czi843N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86r7aiyg4g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4n6ag.5uhq7a7xe1v4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86ach6y6ta.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4o6eo.4gi3s6xgesmzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86k6g9w7u1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
>> > Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> >> What surprises me is that marketing types will accept turning away -
>> >> what's the current internet user base? 200 million? - 10 million
>> >> potential customers without a complaint. Or maybe they just don't get
>> >> told that that's what's going on.
>> > In firms where marketing has lots of power, they may indeed well decide
>> > to pursue those "10 millions" by demanding an expenditure of effort
>> > that's totally out of proportion
>> What makes you think that the expenditure of effort is "totally out of
>> proportion"? In my experience, that isn't the case - at least if you
>> go into it planning on doing things that way. Retrofitting a site that
>> was built without any thought but "make it work in my favoriter
>> browser in my favorite configuration" can be a radically different
>> thing.
> We ARE talking about moving from supporting 95% to supporting
> (*supposedly*!) 100%, after all -- very much into the long, *LONG* tail
> of obscure buggy versions of this browser or that, which SOME users
> within those last centiles may have forgotten to patch/upgrade, etc.

I'm talking about supporting standards instead of clients, which is
how you get interoperability. You clearly can't support all the buggy
browsers that exist, especially not when even commercial browsers are
releasing betas to the public. Reality is that you *have* to support
the most popular browser(s) - except for the betas, anyway. Other
browsers that have bugs - well, you can patch around them if it's
trivial enough, and identify where the browser is out of spec
otherwise in hopes the author will fix it. Unless you're out of spec,
in which case you fix your code.

>> > Maybe that's part of the explanation for the
>> > outstanding success of some enterprises founded by engineers, led by
>> > engineers, and staffed overwhelmingly with engineers, competing with
>> > other firms where marketing wield power...?
>> You mean like google? Until recently, they're an outstanding example
>> of doing things right, and providing functionality that degrades
>> gracefully as the clients capabilities go down.
> I'm not sure what you mean by "until recently" in this context.  AFAIK,
> we've NEVER wasted our efforts by pouring them into the quixotic task of
> supporting *100%* of possible browsers that may hit us, with the near
> infinite number of combinations of browsers, versions and disabled
> feature that this would require.

Google's sites have been very good about working with many browsers
and configurations, especially when compared with the run of the mill
on the web. If that's unintentional - well, that's simply a shame.

> One may quibble whether the target percentage should be, say, 93%,
> 95%, or 97%, and what level of degradation can still be considered
> "graceful" around various axes, but the 100% goal which you so
> clearly imply above would, in my personal opinion, be simply foolish
> now, just as it would have been 3 years ago.

I never meant to imply that you should try and support 100% of all
browsers, merely that they should try and support every browser that
follows the specifications (and IE). I can see how what I said might
be construed to mean the latter, and I'm sorry about that.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve.horsley at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:37:39 2005
From: steve.horsley at gmail.com (Steve Horsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:37:39 +0000
Subject: Problem With Insert with MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2715.1130715874.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2715.1130715874.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dk5vaj$73n$1@news.freedom2surf.net>

David Mitchell wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am a complete beginner with Python. I've managed to get mod_python up and
> running with Apache2 and I'm trying to a simple insert into a table in a
> MySQL database. 
> 
> I'm using the MySQLdb library for connectivity. I can read from the database
> no problem, but when I do an insert, the value never gets added to the
> database, even though there is no error, and the SQL is fine (I print out
> the SQL statement in the function). When I copy and paste the sql from my
> browser and insert directly into MySQL, it works fine.
> 
> Here is the function in question:
> 
> def add(req):
> 	db = MySQLdb.connect(host="intranet", user="root", passwd="",
> db="intranet")
> 	# create a cursor
> 	cursor = db.cursor()
> 	# execute SQL statement
> 	
> 	sql = "INSERT INTO category (category_name) VALUES ('" +
> req.form['category'] + "')"
> 	cursor.execute(sql)
> 	return sql
> 
> 
> The SQL it is outputting is:
> 
> INSERT INTO category (category_name) VALUES ('Test')
> 
> Am I doing something obviously incorrect here?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave
> 

Try either executing this first:
     cursor.execute("set autocommit = 1")
or this afterwards:
     cursor.execute("commit")

The idea is that transactions are not committed into the database 
until you "commit" them - and if you hit problems halfway through 
a sequence of updates that really shouldn't be left half 
finished, you can execute "abort" instead (or just close the 
connection), and none of them will be done.

Steve


From http  Thu Oct 13 17:56:10 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:56:10 -0700
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
References: <mailman.1983.1129161023.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r6i0uFi3qb8U2@uni-berlin.de> <7xfyr5kfgm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3r6osdFhsfjgU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<7xvf0168nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434e7967$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7xr7apqw1y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <434ea2ad$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<7x3bn5s1dm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3r83a5Fi1rt6U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xfyr5qdxh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> > Yes, that would describe just about every cpu for the past 30 years
> > that's a plausible Python target.
> 
> No. The later 68K (>68020) could address on odd adresses. And AFAIK
> all x86 can because of their 8080 stemming.

Yes, "could" but not "does" in terms of what any reasonable actual
compiler implmementations do.  You get a huge performance hit for
using unaligned data.  The one exception is you could conceivably have
character strings starting at odd addresses but it's no big deal to
start them all on 4-byte (or even 2-byte) boundaries.


From llothar at web.de  Tue Oct 25 12:22:37 2005
From: llothar at web.de (llothar)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:22:37 -0700
Subject: How is the python path build ?
Message-ID: <1130257357.684848.260180@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

i must add my own python.exe and a little patched runtime library with
my product.

How can i setup the python path, so that the directories are not taken
from the registry values for Python2.4 but something relative to my own
python.exe ?

With PYTHONPATH i can only add new items in front of sys.path but i
want start with a clean sys.path without any pre added directories.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 09:11:56 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 23:11:56 +1000
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
References: <mailman.1650.1128657817.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.12.24.48.683205@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1128687060.102240.56040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.07.13.11.56.48209@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 05:11:00 -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:

> Well, suppose you have a class MyObject and you want to add to it some
> methods to make its instances into a database. You could put these
> methods into another class called Storable (the mixin class).
> Then you can mix MyObject with Storable and get what you want,
> a class StorableObject inheriting both from Storable and MyObject.
> Of course you can reuse Storable to make storable even other
> classes, for  instance you could define a StorableOtherObject
> inheriting from OtherObject and Storable.

So mixins are just a sub-class [pun intended] of sub-classing?

I've just found this:

[quote]
A mixin class is a parent class that is inherited from - but not as
a means of specialization. Typically, the mixin will export services to a
child class, but no semantics will be implied about the child "being a
kind of" the parent.
[end quote]

from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MixIn

Is that all they are?

It is amazing how you can take the simplest concept, and by using
appropriate terminology, make it as confusing and opaque as you want...

*wink*


-- 
Steven.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  5 05:59:27 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:59:27 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <4343996E.8010201@sweetapp.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4343996E.8010201@sweetapp.com>
Message-ID: <di085n$uo2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brian Quinlan wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>>Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Have those of you who think that the lack of required declarations in
>>>Python is a huge weakness given any thought to the impact that adding
>>>them would have on the rest of the language? I can't imagine how any
>>>language with required declarations could even remotely resemble
>>>Python.
>>
>>
>>Python already has a "global" declaration;
> 
> 
> Which is evaluated at runtime, does not require that the actual global 
> variable be pre-existing, and does not create the global variable if not 
> actually assigned. I think that is pretty different than your proposal 
> semantics.
> 
I believe that "global" is the one Python statement that isn't actually 
executable, and simply conditions the code generated during compilation 
(to bytecode).

Hard to see why someone would want to use a global declaration unless 
they were intending to assign to it, given the sematnics of access.
> 
[...]

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct  8 16:44:44 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:44:44 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <0ubgk190ncu25dki8h0ddd3s4fd13bj76k@4ax.com>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:38:49 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>Even more invariably, they set the point size directly rather than in
>relative terms, and they are on Windows, where point sizes are about 20%
>oversized.

 that is like giving up Java because there was a bug in the Windows
JVM. FIX THE BUG.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From dudufigueiredo at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 20:58:51 2005
From: dudufigueiredo at gmail.com (Dudu Figueiredo)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 17:58:51 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2750.1130795789.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2744.1130787080.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130789205.862429.10090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051031220841.GF2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
	<mailman.2750.1130795789.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130810331.052918.75650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Oh, forget what i've just said, i didn't read the __debug__  part.
It worked perfectly =]
Realy good Python classes!
____________________
Eduardo Figueiredo
http://dudufigueiredo.com



From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 04:21:31 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 01:21:31 -0700
Subject: testing '192.168.1.4' is in '192.168.1.0/24' ?
In-Reply-To: <JIGdnfUorPN14MHeRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
References: <1130131120.695320.180030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<JIGdnfUorPN14MHeRVn-uA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1130142091.327886.163710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

thanks, that is basically what I am doing and since it is a recipe, I
would assume there is no standard library module for it.

Peter Hansen wrote:
> bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> > Is there standard library modules handling this ? currently I need to
> > turn it into a long integer and do the shift and compare.
>
> A little Googling turned up this:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440560
> 
> -Peter



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 08:21:31 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:21:31 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <bjk133-4jv.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message news:okh133-n3l.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

>> 3) there are plenty of other OSs that are developed or could be
>> developed but which cannot get a foothold or even manage to be put on
>> the shelves because the majority product producer insists on charging
>> hardware manufacturers for every box produced, whether or not it carries
>> their o/s, and does other nasty things like sabotaging their own
>> products so they won't work with a clone o/s.

>     How could he resell an OS that "could be developed"?

Is it relevant? Why? Can you sell a voip solution that could be
developed? Is that relevant? No. No. No. No.

> If nobody wants 
> these operating systems,

False premise, indeed, irrelevant premise, therefore rest of statememt
junked.  No dumb client cares what o/s they are running.  Do you care if
your mobile phone runs symbios of javalite?  That's simply not the point
- the point is that the makers of symbios don't charge your mobile phone
manufacturer for every phone sold, whether symbios is on there or
not. Doing so is "restraint of trade", because, uh, it restrains the
manufactrers of mobile phones from exercising their market choices.


> then it doesn't hurt him not to be able to sell 

Who cares? It's to the advantage of sellers to create a monopoly! It's
not in YOUR, the customer's, advantage to have one, which is why there
are laws against it!

Go away!

Peter


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 07:22:37 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 11:22:37 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
Message-ID: <slrndk253t.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-09-30, Sam schreef <sam at email-scan.com>:
> This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message.  If you see this text, it means that
> your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
> The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
> To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
> software that supports modern Internet standards.
>
> --=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-32420-1128120829-0002
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Reinhold Birkenfeld writes:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> after Guido's pronouncement yesterday, in one of the next versions of Python
>> there will be a conditional expression with the following syntax:
>> 
>> X if C else Y
>> 
>> which is the same as today's
>> 
>> (Y, X)[bool(C)]
>
> What's wrong with "C ? X:Y"?
>
> Aside from ":" being overloaded?

Nothing, but afaiu Guido dislikes it.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct  5 03:55:10 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 07:55:10 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-04, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>>
>>>And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
>>>early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
>>>employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.
>> 
>> 
>> Using (unit)tests will not guarantee that your programs is error free.
>> 
>> So if sooner or later a (unit)tested program causes a problem, will you
>> then argue that we should abondon tests, because tests won't catch
>> all errors.
>
> Maybe you need to specify what kind of errors you want to catch. 
> Different types of errors require different approaches.

I want to catch all errors of course.

I know that nothing will ever guarantee me this result, but some things
may help in getting close. So if a language provides a feature that can
help, I generally think that is positive. That such a feature won't
solve all problems shouldn't be considered fatal as some counter arguments
seem to suggest.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct  5 09:53:07 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:53:07 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<slrndk70cj.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <863bnghxz0.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>>> They also relieve a burden from the run-time, since all variables
>>> are declared, the runtime doesn't has to check whether or not
>>> a variable is accesible, it knows it is.
>> Not in a dynamic language. Python lets you delete variables at run
>> time, so the only way to know if a variable exists at a specific
>> point during the execution of an arbitrary program is to execute the
>> program to that point.
> It is not perfect, that doesn't mean it can't help. How much code
> deletes variables.

It's not perfect means it may not help. Depends on the cost of being
wrong - which means we need to see how things would be different if
the code was assuming that a variable existed, and then turned out to
be wrong.

Actually, I'd be interested in knowing how you would improve the
current CPython implementation with knowledge about whether or not a
variable existed. The current implementation just does a dictionary
lookup on the name. The lookup fails if the variable doesn't exist. So
checking on the existence of the variable is a byproduct of finding
the value of the variable. So even if it was perfect, it wouldn't
help.

>>> And if you provide type information with the declaration, more
>>> efficient code can be produced.
>> Only in a few cases. Type inferencing is a well-understood
>> technology, and will produce code as efficient as a statically type
>> language in most cases.
> I thought it was more than in a few. Without some type information
> from the coder, I don't see how you can infer type from library
> code.

There's nothing special about library code. It can be anaylyzed just
like any other code.

>>> I think language matters shouldn't be setlled by personal preferences.
>> I have to agree with that. For whether or not a feature should be
>> included, there should either be a solid reason dealing with the
>> functionality of the language - meaning you should have a set of use
>> cases showing what a feature enables in the language that couldn't be
>> done at all, or could only be done clumsily, without the feature.
> I think this is too strict. Decorators would IMO never made it.

>From the impressions I get here, a lot of people would have been happy
with that result.

> I think that a feature that could be helpfull in reduction
> errors, should be a candidate even if it has no other merrits.

Yes, but that doesn't mean it should be accepted. Otherwise, every
language would be Eiffel. You have to weigh the cost of a feature
against the benefit you get from it - and different people come to
different conclusions. Which is why different languages provide
different levels of bondage.

>> Except declarations don't add functionality to the language. They
>> effect the programing process.
> It would be one way to get writable closures in the language.
> That is added functionality.

Except just adding declerations doesn't give you that. You have to
change the language so that undeclared variables are looked for up the
scope. And that's the only change you need to get writable variables -
some way to indicate that a variable should be checked for up the
scope. There are more lightweight ways to do that than tagging every
*other* variable. Those have been proposed - and rejected.

>> And we have conflicting claims about
>> whether that's a good effect or not, all apparently based on nothing
>> solider than personal experience. Which means the arguments are just
>> personal preferences.
> Whether the good effect is good enough is certainly open for debate.
> But the opponents seem to argue that since it is no absolute guarantee,
> it is next to useless. Well I can't agree with that kind of argument
> and will argue against it.

You're not reading the opponents arguments carefully enough. The
argument is that the benefit from type declerations is overstated, and
in reality doesn't outweigh the cost of declerations.

>> Antoon, at a guess I'd say that Python is the first time you've
>> encountered a dynamnic language. Being "horrified" at not having
>> variable declarations, which is a standard feature of such languages
>> dating back to the 1950s, is one such indication.
> No I'm not horrified at not having variable declarations. I'm in
> general very practical with regard to programming, and use what
> features a language offers me. However that doesn't stop me from
> thinking: Hey if language X would have feature F from language Y,
> that could be helpfull.

I'm sorry - I thought you were the OP, who said he was horrified by
that lack.

>> Dynamic languages tend to express a much wider range of programming
>> paradigms than languages that are designed to be statically
>> compiled. Some of these paradigms do away with - or relegate to the
>> level of "ugly performance hack" - features that someone only
>> experienced with something like Pascal would consider
>> essential. Assignment statements are a good example of that.
> I think we should get rid of thinking about a language as
> static or dynamic. It is not the language which should determine
> a static or dynamic approach, it is the problem you are trying
> to solve. And if the coder thinks that a static approach is
> best for his problem, why shouldn't he solve it that way.

Except that languages *are* static or dynamic. They have different
features, and different behaviors. Rather than tilting at the windmill
of making a dynamic language suitable for static approaches, it's
better to simply use the appropriate tool for the job. Especially if
those changes make the tool *less* suitable for a dynamic approach.

> That a language allows a static approach too, doesn't contradict
> that it can work dynamically. Everytime a static feature is
> suggested, some dynamic folks react as if the dynamic aspect
> of python is in perril.

The problem is that such changes invariably have deep impact that
isn't visible until you examine things carefully knowing you're
dealing with a dynamic language. For instance, just as Python can
delete a variable from a name space at run time, it can add a variable
to some name spaces at run time. So the compiler can't reliably
determine that a variable doesn't exist any more than it can reliably
determine that one does. This means that you can't flag using
undeclared variables in those namespaces at compile time without a
fundamental change in the language.

>> Given these kinds of differences, prior experience is *not* a valid
>> reason for thinking that some difference must be wrong. Until you have
>> experience with the language in question, you can't really decide that
>> some feature being missing is intolerable. You're in the same position
>> as the guy who told me that a language without a goto would be
>> unusable based on his experience with old BASIC, FORTRAN IV and
>> assembler.
> There seems to be some misunderstanding, I don't remember stating that
> missing declarations are intolerable, I certainly dont think so. I
> wouldn't be programming in python for over five years now if I
> thought so. But that doesn't mean having the possibilty to
> declare is useless.

Again, I was apparently confusing you and the OP. My apologies.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jason at pengale.com  Wed Oct 19 23:11:56 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:11:56 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <roy-D8075E.23012819102005@reader2.panix.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<1129776956.254389.188040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-D8075E.23012819102005@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <89DF2CF9-408E-4D9E-8E43-003D23006C24@pengale.com>

On Oct 19, 2005, at 10:01 PM, Roy Smith wrote:

> In article <1129776956.254389.188040 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>  "jean-marc" <jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca> wrote:
>
>> I'd believe that would be Lua, but then again what is common to one
>> might not be to another ;-)
>>
>
> Dang, you're right!  Lua's got Ruby beat two-fold!

And lack of vowels is definitive proof that PHP is not-so-good, right?

How can we improve Python's competitiveness in this arena? "Pie"? Or  
can we do even better than Lua? Ptooey!

- Jason



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 07:21:45 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:21:45 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp at 4ax.com...

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:06:36 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    Do you think it would be immoral if Microsoft said, "we will only sell
>>Windows wholesale to dealers who don't sell other operating systems?"

> I had an existing independent business. I was not as though I were an
> MS franchise. They imposed this extortion well into my business's
> life.  My choice was comply or go out of business.

> It was not as if I had a choice of sell Hondas or sell Kias if I did
> like the franchise deal.

    Okay, I give up. As far as I can see it, there are only two realistic 
possibilties:

    1) There is no other operating system worth selling. In this case, you 
are right, you have no choice but to sell the Microsoft OS, but the deal 
they're offering you harms you in no way. (Unless you intended to sell PCs 
with no OS at all.)

    2) There are other realistic competing operating systems. In this case, 
you were foolish to agree to Microsoft's deal. You lost out on the realistic 
competing markets. That is, unless Windows only really was a better deal, in 
which case you were wise to take the deal and have no reason to be upset.

> To my way of thinking what MS did was similar to a the only magasine
> wholesaler in town telling retailers it had to sell kiddie porn under
> the table or pay full retail for all magazines.

    Of course you pick an analogy where MS analogically peddles kiddie porn. 
I can play the same game, watch this: What MS did was similar to the major 
magazine wholesaler in a town telling retailers they must carry gay and 
lesbian publications if they want to carry its mainstream magazines.

> I broke my own ethical code rather than go out of business. I will
> never forgive MS for putting me in that position.

    You certainly have a legitimate personal grudge against MS.

    DS




From martin.witte at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:18:53 2005
From: martin.witte at gmail.com (wittempj@hotmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:18:53 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128694733.576909.16560@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Your __cmp__ method will always return 0, so all objects will be equal
when you add the method, as Simon and Steve pointed out. The result is
all objects will pass the test of being a member of excluded.
If you do not add a __cmp__ method objects will be compared on identy -
call the id() function to see the identity of an object. An alternative
would be Steve's proposal to compare on the id attribute instead of the
allocated attribute



From oshecho at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 20:48:52 2005
From: oshecho at gmail.com (Echo)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:48:52 -0400
Subject: Hidden string formatting bug
Message-ID: <910885da0510131748y16dd9603n4e013553e28797df@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
I have been trying to figure out the problem with this string formatting:

sql = 'INSERT INTO tc_themes
(name,user_made,hour12,time_loc,background_color_r,' + \
'background_color_g,background_color_b,clock_color_r,clock_color_g,' + \
'clock_color_b,clock_background_color_r,clock_background_color_g,' + \
'clock_background_color_b,clock_points_color_r,clock_points_color_g,' + \
'clock_points_color_b,clock_hour_color_r,clock_hour_color_g,' + \
'clock_hour_color_b,clock_min_color_r,clock_min_color_g,' + \
'clock_min_color_b,clock_sec_color_r,clock_sec_color_g,' + \
'clock_sec_color_b,clock_font_facename,clock_font_size,' + \
'clock_font_style,clock_font_underlined,clock_font_weight,' + \
'clock_font_color_r,clock_font_color_g,clock_font_color_b,' + \
'time_font_facename,time_font_size,time_font_style,' + \
'time_font_underlined,time_font_weight,time_font_color_r,' + \
'time_font_color_g,time_font_color_b) VALUES (' + \
"%s,%i,%i,%s,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%s,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%s,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i,%i," + \
"%i,%i)" % ("'Simple Clock'", 0, 1, "'Top'", 200, 200, 200, 100, 100, 100,
255, 255, 255, 100, 100, 100, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 255, 0, 0, "'Arial'", 18,
90, 0, 90, 0, 0, 0, "'Arial'", 32, 90, 0, 90, 0, 0, 0)

when it executes, I get this error: "inv argument required". I have checked
and rechecked both the string and the tuple. I cant figure out what the
problem is.
After playing around with it, i found out if change the last line to:
"%s,%i) %(... I get a different error. The error is "not all arguments
converted during string formatting".

So I am baffled and confused as of why this wont work. Is anyone able to
shed some light on my hidden bug?

Using: Python 2.4 (#60, Nov 30 2004, 11:49:19) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]

--
-Echo
-------------- next part --------------
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 13:54:06 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:54:06 -0700
Subject: Wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <digu80$c9s$1@sea.gmane.org>

Java and Swing wrote:
> I am having trouble with a wrapper function...
> 
> My C code looks like
> -----------------------
> #include <stdlib.h>
> #include <string.h>
> #include "Python.h"
> 
> int doStuff(const char *input, const char *d) {...}
> 
> PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *, PyObject *args) {

PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {

> ...when I try to compile this I get
> "error C2055: expected formal parameter list, not a type list"  and it
> points to line 31...which is the line "PyObject *wrap_doStuff(...)".

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From oliver.andrich at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 17:49:40 2005
From: oliver.andrich at gmail.com (Oliver Andrich)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:49:40 +0200
Subject: Question about inheritance...
In-Reply-To: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f7b52d0510221449x28a027b6n@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

22 Oct 2005 14:40:09 -0700, KraftDiner <bobrien18 at yahoo.com>:
> I have a base class called Shape
> And then classes like Circle, Square, Triangle etc, that inherit from
> Shape:
>
> My quesiton is can a method of the Shape class call a method in Circle,
> or Square etc...?

even there would exist a way to accomplish that, I would suggest to
rethink your class hierachy. Such requirements can show serious design
problems.

Best regards,
Oliver

--
Oliver Andrich <oliver.andrich at gmail.com> --- http://roughbook.de/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 11 00:42:25 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:42:25 +0100
Subject: Python name lookups
In-Reply-To: <20051010220230.98030.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051010220230.98030.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <diffrj$m28$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dave wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> As far as I understand, Python deals with a lot of
> string objects, i.e. it looks up all names. Is there a
> way to find out how many name lookup operations take
> place in a Python program? Is it the name lookup
> operation or hash operation that degrades performance?
> What function does Python use for name lookup
> operations? Is it the lookdict function in
> Objects/dictobject.c?
> 
> Thank you for your help!
> 
Be aware that it doesn't "look up all names" if by that you mean that 
all variable accesses are symbolic. Function-local variables are 
referred to by a pre-computed offset in the stack frame, and so are much 
more quickly accessed than others, where the name-based access is 
typically used.

The only way I can think of to get the number you want is to instrument 
the interpreter once you have determined what you are really asking.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mapisto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 11:27:45 2005
From: mapisto at gmail.com (Mapisto)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 08:27:45 -0700
Subject: Writing an immutable object in python
In-Reply-To: <dj0ibt$4ja$1@wake.carmen.se>
References: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj0ibt$4ja$1@wake.carmen.se>
Message-ID: <1129649265.168515.306010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Ok, I've understood my mistake.

Now, my list contains a shared entry of an empty object. When an entry
is needed to be changed, I check if the entry is the shared empty
object; in that case I create a new unique instance. If the entry is
already a unique instance, I use it, so the empty object isn't touched.


Thanks,
Guy.



From http  Wed Oct  5 04:03:53 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2005 01:03:53 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7xy85875li.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> writes:
> If you think variable declarations should be required,

I don't think they should be required.  I think there should optional
declarations along with a compiler flag that checks for them if the
user asks for it, like Perl has.

> then you presumably want that to cover class attributes as well as
> local and global variables. After all assigning to 'x.i' when you
> meant 'x.j' is at least as bad as assigning to 'i'

Yes, lots of people mistakenly use __slots__ for exactly that purpose.
Maybe the function they think __slots__ is supposed to implement is a
legitimate one, and having a correct way to do it is a good idea.

> But unless you know the type of 'x', how do you know whether it
> has attributes 'i' or 'j'? 

If the compiler knows (through declarations, type inference, or
whatever) that x is a certain type of class instance, then it knows
what attributes x has.


From MrJean1 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 21:40:55 2005
From: MrJean1 at gmail.com (MrJean1)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 18:40:55 -0700
Subject: what does 0 mean in MyApp(0)
In-Reply-To: <1128089733.684329.101320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128089733.684329.101320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128303655.924894.127190@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

See the documentation for the __init__() method here

  <http://www.wxpython.org/docs/api/wx.App-class.html>

Btw, this is wxPython 2.6, AFAIK.

/Jean Brouwers



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Oct  9 12:26:55 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (paul at boddie.org.uk)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 09:26:55 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<8ohgk1p9s6pgaq8d67bgpjg7i8i22ngiul@4ax.com>
	<1128820635.056326.87380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<Io3IEu.52s@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1128875215.566389.194590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Tim Tyler wrote:
> Javascript can be turned off in *mail readers* - by their manufacturers.

Yes, mail readers, browsers, combined mail reading and Web browsing
"suites", or whatever combination of functions you care to consider. In
any case, in the not-exactly-unknown mail reader I use, I can't seem to
find a setting that will turn JavaScript on. Meanwhile, HTML mail is
flagged and presented as plain text with a prominent warning about
viewing the message as HTML - an acceptable tradeoff which only
slightly delays the viewing of the very few legitimate messages I get
sent in that format.

Of course, the most excitable manufacturers of mail readers with
respect to enabling a "rich experience" are those pitching "enterprise
functionality", although a full treatment of their mistakes (amplifying
my previous rant) would take this discussion even further away from the
tenuous connection it has with Python, related discussions on type
safety, private/protected/public, using Python in Mozilla, and the
disappearance of the Bastion module notwithstanding.

Paul



From no.offline.contact.please at nospam.com  Sat Oct 15 12:56:05 2005
From: no.offline.contact.please at nospam.com (Rhino)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:56:05 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<mO74f.8726$vD4.549587@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0827ADD1F8realhowtowwwrgagnonc@140.99.99.130>
Message-ID: <7wa4f.9275$vD4.567542@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Real Gagnon" <realgagnon_ at _yahooSpamIsBadSstripunderscore.com> wrote in
message news:Xns96F0827ADD1F8realhowtowwwrgagnonc at 140.99.99.130...
> > I'd be VERY surprised if IBM predicted that there would be only 5
> > COMPUTERS in *2000* - perhaps you mean 5 *manufacturers* of computers?
> > - unless the prediction was made a VERY long time ago. I think you are
> > giving a badly-mangled version of something I saw when I worked at
> > IBM.
>
> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." ~ IBM Chairman
> Thomas Watson, 1943.
>
> ref : http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Computers
>
> Bye.

I stand corrected; I understated the world market by 2 units and was 4 years
late in my guesstimate for the timing of the quote :-) Oh well, not bad for
something I read 10 years ago....

Rhino




From robin at reportlab.com  Tue Oct 11 06:07:27 2005
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:07:27 +0100
Subject: strange import error with Python-2.4.1
Message-ID: <434B8EDF.3060905@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Whilst testing the excellent xlrd http://www.python.org/pypi/xlrd/0.3a1
I came across the following strangeness when trying to add an import of os to 
assist with debugging/tracing.


At line 66 I replaced

import sys

with import sys, os

and then ran python runxlrd.py --help and got this error which is not a real 
syntax problem

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "runxlrd.py", line 5, in ?
     import xlrd
   File "C:\python24\lib\site-packages\xlrd\__init__.py", line 552
         if DEBUG: print >> self.logfile, "SST Processing"

if I remove the , os then the run produces the expected

usage: runxlrd.py [options] command input-file-patterns

options:
   -h, --help            show this help message and exit
   -l LOGFILENAME, --logfilename=LOGFILENAME
                         contains error messages
   -v VERBOSITY, --verbosity=VERBOSITY
                         level of information and diagnostics provided

I also am able to change the line to

import sys
import os

without error.

This behaviour doesn't occur with 2.4.2 or 2.4 only with 2.4.1. I looked for 
some bug fix in the recently released 2.4.2 that related, but couldn't find 
anything obvious. My system doesn't have psyco so xlrd's attempted psyco use 
shouldn't be an issue. Thanks for 2.4.2, but is this one of the fixed bugs or 
has it just got harder to induce?
-- 
Robin Becker



From arotem at juniper.net  Mon Oct 17 03:52:15 2005
From: arotem at juniper.net (arotem)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 00:52:15 -0700
Subject: TypeError: unbound method PrintInput() must be called with test
	instance as first argument (got test instance instead)
References: <1129481319.436107.16950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<3rffl4Fjc0n2U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129535535.922908.257720@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks... it solves the problem :-)



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Thu Oct 20 22:50:53 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:50:53 -0700
Subject: TK question
In-Reply-To: <1129860960.909273.68840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129860960.909273.68840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510201950.53800.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Forgot to answer the "better" part:


class optFrame(Frame):

   def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
     Frame.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
     self.pack()
     self.make_widgets()
   def make_widgets(self):
     """
     Put widgets here.
     """
     pass


def main():

   tk = Tk()
   optWin = optFrame(tk)
   tk.mainloop()


if __name__ == "__main__":

   main()


James

On Thursday 20 October 2005 19:16, MBW wrote:
> I have a class that is a windows in a GUI
>
> the following is the code:
>
> class optWin:
>
>     def __init__(self):
>         return None
>
>     def __call__(self):
>         self.root = tk()
>         self.root.title("My title")
>         self.root.mainloop()
>         return None
>
> 1)Why doesn't this work when I go to call optWin
> 2)What is a better way to do this
>
> Thanks in advance

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 03:40:48 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:40:48 +0100
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <dja61r$pdd$1@sea.gmane.org>

Christian wrote:
>>The closest thing you can do is that:
>>
>>-myScript.py--------------------------------------
>>print 'export MY_VARIABLE=value'
>>--------------------------------------------------
>>
>>-myScript.sh--------------------------------------
>>python myScript.py > /tmp/chgvars.sh
>>. /tmp/chgvars.sh
>>--------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Can I write a .py script that calls a .sh script that executes the 
> export command and then calls another .py script (and how would the 
> first .py script look)?
> 
> That would be much more what is my basic problem.
> 
You can do what you suggest without shell scripting, unless I 
misunderstand your intention: just set the environment variables you 
want your Python script to see and then run it using os.system():

::::::::::::::
one.py
::::::::::::::
import os
os.environ['STEVE'] = "You are the man"
os.system("python two.py")
print "Ran one"
::::::::::::::
two.py
::::::::::::::
import os
print "STEVE is", os.environ['STEVE']
print "Ran two"
[sholden at headrat tmp]$ python one.py
STEVE is You are the man
Ran two
Ran one
[sholden at headrat tmp]$

Hope this helps.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From luismgz at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 21:03:20 2005
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Luis M. Gonzalez)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 18:03:20 -0700
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1128733400.812671.304850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Grant Edwards ha escrito:
> While we're off this topic again topic, I was watching a BBC
> series "Space Race" the other night.  The British actors did a
> passable job with the American accents in the scenes at Fort
> Bliss in Texas, but the writers wrote British English lines for
> them to speak in their American accents...


Continuing with this off-topic thread about british accent and
movies...
I've always asked myself why do Hollywood movies about the Roman Empire
show the Emperors and all the nobles speaking with british accent?
They were italians for God's sake!

Anyway, I can't imagine Julius Caesar speaking like Vito Corleone...



From kbk at shore.net  Sat Oct  8 00:34:33 2005
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:34:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200510080434.j984YXHG031113@bayview.thirdcreek.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  341 open ( +4) /  2953 closed ( +6) /  3294 total (+10)
Bugs    :  884 open (-28) /  5321 closed (+43) /  6205 total (+15)
RFE     :  196 open ( +1) /   187 closed ( +0) /   383 total ( +1)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

Make fcntl work properly on AMD64  (2005-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1309352  opened by  Brad Hards

A wait4() implementation  (2005-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1309579  opened by  chads

httplib error handling and HTTP/0.9 fix  (2005-10-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1312980  opened by  Yusuke Shinyama

Speedup PyUnicode_DecodeCharmap  (2005-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1313939  opened by  Walter D?rwald

os.makedirs - robust against partial path  (2005-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1314067  opened by  Jim Jewett

ensure lock is released if exception is raised  (2005-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1314396  opened by  Eric Blossom

ToolTip.py: fix main() function  (2005-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1315161  opened by  sebastien blanchet

Py_INCREF/Py_DECREF with magic constant demo  (2005-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1316653  opened by  Adam Olsen

Patches Closed
______________

pyexpat.c: Two line fix for decoding crash  (2005-09-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1309009  closed by  nnorwitz

patch IDLE to allow running anonymous code in editor window  (2005-05-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1201522  closed by  kbk

BSD-style wait4 implementation  (2004-07-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1000267  closed by  nnorwitz

Patch for (Doc) bug #1219273  (2005-06-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1227568  closed by  nnorwitz

Greatly enhanced webbrowser.py  (2003-06-13)
       http://python.org/sf/754022  closed by  birkenfeld

Patch for [ 1163563 ] Sub threads execute in restricted mode  (05/17/05)
       http://python.org/sf/1203393  closed by  sf-robot

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

linechache module returns wrong results  (2005-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1309567  opened by  Thomas Heller

2.4.2 make problems  (2005-10-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1311579  opened by  Paul Mothersdill

broken link in sets page  (2005-10-03)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1311674  opened by  Fernando Canizo

python.exe 2.4.2 compiled with VS2005 crashes  (2005-10-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1311784  opened by  Peter Klotz

Python breakdown in windows (uses apsw)  (2005-10-03)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1311993  opened by  Benjamin Hinrichs

mac_roman codec missing "apple" codepoint  (2005-10-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1313051  opened by  Tony Nelson

urlparse "caches" parses regardless of encoding  (2005-10-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1313119  opened by  Ken Kinder

bisect C replacement doesn't accept named args  (2005-10-04)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1313496  opened by  Drew Perttula

Compile fails for configure "--without-threads"  (2005-10-05)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1313974  opened by  seidl

Issue in unicode args in logging   (2005-10-05)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1314107  reopened by  tungwaiyip

Issue in unicode args in logging   (2005-10-05)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1314107  opened by  Wai Yip Tung

crash in longobject (invalid memory access)  (2005-10-05)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1314182  opened by  Jon Nelson

logging run into deadlock in some error handling situation  (2005-10-05)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1314519  opened by  Wai Yip Tung

Trailing slash redirection for SimpleHTTPServer  (2005-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1314572  opened by  Josiah Carlson

inspect.getsourcelines() broken  (2005-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1315961  opened by  Walter D?rwald

gzip.GzipFile.seek missing second argument  (2005-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1316069  opened by  Neil Schemenauer

Segmentation fault with invalid "coding"  (2005-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1316162  opened by  Humberto Di?genes

Bugs Closed
___________

Datagram Socket Timeouts  (2005-09-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1308042  closed by  nnorwitz

Unsatisfied symbols: _PyGILState_NoteThreadState (code)  (2005-09-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1307978  closed by  mwh

subprocess.Popen locks on Cygwin  (2005-09-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1307798  closed by  jlt63

test_posix fails on cygwin  (2005-04-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1180147  closed by  jlt63

can't import thru cygwin symlink  (2005-04-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1179412  closed by  jlt63

popen4/cygwin ssh hangs  (2005-01-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1101756  closed by  jlt63

2.3.3 tests on cygwin  (2003-12-22)
       http://python.org/sf/864374  closed by  jlt63

Datagram Socket Timeouts  (2005-09-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1307357  closed by  nnorwitz

log() on a big number fails on powerpc64  (2005-07-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1245381  closed by  nnorwitz

__getnewargs__ is in pickle docs but not in code  (2005-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1309724  closed by  nnorwitz

Win registry problem  (2005-07-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1239120  closed by  birkenfeld

unknown encoding -&gt; MemoryError  (2003-07-17)
       http://python.org/sf/772896  closed by  nnorwitz

'Expression' AST Node not documented  (2005-06-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1219273  closed by  nnorwitz

segfault if redirecting directory  (2004-01-30)
       http://python.org/sf/887946  closed by  nnorwitz

Acroread aborts printing PDF documentation  (2004-05-30)
       http://python.org/sf/963321  closed by  hgolden

Python hangs up on I/O operations on the latest FreeBSD 4.10  (2004-06-09)
       http://python.org/sf/969492  closed by  birkenfeld

empty raise after handled exception  (2004-06-15)
       http://python.org/sf/973103  closed by  nnorwitz

Unhelpful error message when mtime of a module is -1  (2004-06-21)
       http://python.org/sf/976608  closed by  nnorwitz

compile of code with incorrect encoding yields MemoryError  (2004-06-25)
       http://python.org/sf/979739  closed by  nnorwitz

os.access reports true for read-only directories  (2004-07-15)
       http://python.org/sf/991735  closed by  nnorwitz

seg fault when calling bsddb.hashopen()  (2004-07-19)
       http://python.org/sf/994100  closed by  montanaro

os.major() os.minor() example and description change  (2004-08-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1008310  closed by  nnorwitz

test_pep277 fails  (2004-09-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1029561  closed by  nnorwitz

broken link in sets page  (2005-10-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1311674  closed by  fdrake

Python breakdown in windows (uses apsw)  (2005-10-03)
       http://python.org/sf/1311993  closed by  birkenfeld

Missing sk_SK in windows_locale  (2005-07-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1237015  deleted by  luks

bisect C replacement doesn't accept named args  (2005-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1313496  closed by  rhettinger

Compile fails for configure "--without-threads"  (2005-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1313974  closed by  perky

Issue in unicode args in logging   (2005-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1314107  closed by  vsajip

Issue in unicode args in logging   (2005-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1314107  closed by  vsajip

crash in longobject (invalid memory access)  (2005-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1314182  closed by  tim_one

logging run into deadlock in some error handling situation  (2005-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1314519  closed by  vsajip

A command history for the idle interactive shell  (2005-09-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1302267  closed by  kbk

New / Reopened RFE
__________________

Add os.path.relpath  (2005-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1309676  opened by  Reinhold Birkenfeld



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 23 04:32:06 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:32:06 +1000
Subject: downloading web images
References: <KqG6f.269292$1i.195859@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.23.08.32.05.987855@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:52:26 +0000, Joe wrote:

> I'm just wandering if I'm doing this correct way I'm trying to download an
> image and store it into a file this does the job, but created file does not
> apear to be an image, it works fine and I can open image, I'm just
> wandering if there is a better way of doing this. 

What do you mean that the file does not appear to be an image? If it works
fine and you can open the image, then what is the problem?


-- 
Steven.



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 10:20:56 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:20:56 +0100
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A6@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[Tim Golden]
> Just occasionally you read posts from people who say (synthesised)
> "The Windows command line is rubbish",

[Sybren Stuvel]
> It is. Let me give an example. I have the following files:

[.. snip example of finding .somefile when you type som<tab> ..]

Well, fair enough. Although I don't think that on its own
this constitutes "rubbish". However, the rest of your points...

> There is also no proper terminal support in the "DOS" box

Not quite sure what this means. As in ANSI support? (Perfectly
true - definitely lacking there). Or something else?

> You can't resize it horizontally

Well, peculiarly, you can do this (as you're probably aware) from
the Properties menu and it'll work immediately, albeit without
advising the running programs that it's resized, so only new
lines will take advantage of the new width. Now, why they didn't
let you do the same thing by grabbing the border and pulling, I
don't know!

> and the TAB key can only do dubm filename completion 
> (no smart option completion like only completing with
> directory names after a "cd" command)

Ummm. Not quite true, at least not on my XP machine,
which, given:

      python.txt
<DIR> python 

alternates between the two when I do "dir p<tab>" but
only offers me the directory when I do "cd p<tab>".

In addition (and to no real advantage that I can see), Windows
offers two keystrokes, by default Ctrl-F and Ctrl-D if enabled,
to do file (and directory) completion and directory completion
only.

> > "All Windows machines are overrun with adware and generate spam
> > willy-nilly".

> Not all, indeed. There are _lots_ of Windows zombie machines, though.
> Then again, when I was moving, I didn't pay enough attention to my
> Linux box, was too late in patching a leak, and it started spamming
> too.

I'm sure you're right: given moderately naive users, a Windows box
is *extremely* likely to be zombified. It's just that it doesn't
have to be that way with the proper care and attention. And more
recent versions of Windows are a bit better off this way. But I'm
quite sure they're still worse off than Linux. 

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From helge.stenstrom.NOSPAM at NOSPAMericsson.com  Tue Oct 18 06:48:49 2005
From: helge.stenstrom.NOSPAM at NOSPAMericsson.com (Helge Stenstroem)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 12:48:49 +0200
Subject: unittest of file-reading function
Message-ID: <uek6j2j8u.fsf@ericsson.com>

Say I have a function

def f(filename):
    result = openFileAndProcessContents(filename)
    return result

Can that function be unit tested without having a real file as input?
Something along the lines of

import unittest
class tests(unittest.TestCase):
    def test1(self):
        fileContents = "bla bla bla\nmore bla bla bla"
        ???   # make f read this string instead of opening a file
        expected = expectedResult
        result = f(filename)
        self.assertEqual(result, expected)

One possibility would be to make the unit test write to a temporary
file. Are there better alternatives?
        

-- 
Helge Stenstr?m


From nil at dev.nul  Tue Oct 18 01:27:50 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:27:50 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<die0bf$uek$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<dj0jtg$fj6$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1h4lfof.1jirgzd1rpwucsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dj214k$pdq$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1h4lfof.1jirgzd1rpwucsN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Christian Stapfer <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>
>> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1h4knvy.41r7fw1k4bge7N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
>> > Christian Stapfer <nil at dev.nul> wrote:
>> >
>> >>  This is why we would like to have a way of (roughly)
>> >> estimating the reasonableness of the outlines of a
>> >> program's design in "armchair fashion" - i.e. without
>> >> having to write any code and/or test harness.
>> >
>> > And we would also like to consume vast amounts of chocolate, while
>> > similarly reclining in comfortable armchairs,
>>
>> Maybe some of my inclination towards design
>> based on suitable *theories* (instead of
>> self-conditioning through testing) goes back
>> to the fact that I tend to think about the
>> design of my programs when no computer happens
>> to be near at hand to do some such experimenting,
>> or self-conditioning...
>
> Oh, I am as prone as anybody I know to do SW architecture and design in
> bed when the lights are off and I'm sliding into sleep -- just about the
> only case in which no computer is handy, or, rather, in which it's
> generally unwise to turn the computer on (since it would interfere with
> the sleep thing;-).  Back before laptops were really affordable and
> usable, I used to have a long bus commute, and did a lot of design with
> pen and paper; and whiteboards are a popular group-design tool at
> Google, no matter how many laptops or desktops happen to be around --
> whiteboards are simply more suitable for "socialization" around a draft
> design's sketch, than any computer-based tool I've ever seen.
>
> But that's *design*, and most often in pretty early stages, too -- quite
> a ways from *coding*.  At that stage, one doesn't even generally commit
> to a specific programming language or other for the eventual
> implementation of the components one's considering!  Rough ideas of
> *EXPECTED* run-times (big-Theta) for various subcomponents one is
> sketching are *MUCH* more interesting and important than "asymptotic
> worst-case for amounts of input tending to infinity" (big-O) -- for
> example, where I sketch-in (mentally, on paper, or on whiteboard) a
> "hash table" subcomponent, I consider the *expected* (Theta) performance
> (constant-time lookups), definitely NOT the big-O "linear time" lookups
> which just MIGHT occur (if, say, all inputs just happened to hash to the
> same value)... otherwise, I'd never use hash tables, right?-)

Well, Big-Oh, Big-Theta: these both are asymptotic
complexity measures, arent' they. So that's ok
with me.

>> > without getting all fat and flabby.
>>
>> Well, thinking can be hard work. There is no need
>> to suggest an image of laziness. Thought experiments
>> are also quite often successful. Hardware engineers
>> can design very often entire gadgets without doing
>> a great deal of testing. They usually need to resort
>> to testing only if they know (or feel?) not to have
>> a sufficiently clear *theoretical* grasp of the
>> behavior of some part of their design.
>
> Having been a hardware designer (of integrated circuits, for Texas
> Instruments, and later briefly for IBM), before switching to software, I
> can resolutely deny this assertion: only an utter madman would approve a
> large production run of an IC who has not been EXTENSIVELY tested, in
> simulations and quite possibly in breadboards and later in limited
> pre-production runs.

Whoa, yet another straw-man attack!
First, remember, I do *not* advocate doing without
testing *altogether*: so here you are just attacking
a straw-man of your own making: that's *not* me.
What I wanted to say here is just that, in my
experience, as a close observer of "average
hardware designers", I believe that their testing
*usually* doesn't turn up major gotchas, and this
can only be because the theory they have about
their hardware will operate, is sufficiently
powerful. - "Usually": which means that exceptions
are possible, of course.

>  And any larger "gadget" USING ICs would be
> similarly crazy to skimp on prototyping, simulation, and other testing
> -- because, as every HW engineer KNOWS (SW ones often have to learn the
> hard way), the distance between theory and practice, in practice, is
> much larger than the distance between practice and theory should be in
> theory;-).
>
>> >  Unfortunately, what we would like and what reality affords
>> > are often pretty uncorrelated.  No matter how much theoreticians may
>> > love big-O because it's (relatively) easy to compute, it still has two
>> > failings which are often sufficient to rule out its sufficiency for any
>> > "estimate [of] the reasonableness" of anything: [a] as we operate on
>> > finite machines with finite wordsize, we may never be able reach
>> > anywhere even remotely close to the "asymptotic" region where big-O has
>> > some relationship to reality; [b] in many important cases, the
>> > theoretical worst-case is almost impossible to characterize and hardly
>> > ever reached in real life, so big-O is of no earthly use (and much
>> > harder to compute measures such as big-Theta should be used for just
>> > about any practical purpose).
>>
>> But the fact remains that programmers, somewhat
>> experienced with the interface a module offers,
>> have a *rough*idea* of that computational complexity
>> attaches to what operations of that interface.
>> And having such a *rough*idea* helps them to
>> design reasonably performing programs much more
>> quickly.
>
> A rough idea helps, particularly a rough idea of EXPECTED performance.
>
>>   Big-Oh and other asymptotic complexity measures
>> really do have *this* advantage over having
>> acquired, by way of conditioning experiences,
>> some such *rough*idea* of computational complexity:
>
> No: big-O is NOT AT ALL a measure, rough or otherwise, of EXPECTED
> performance.

Another straw-man attack. Do you really read
what others write? What I have written?
Big-Oh is not the real bone of contention
at all, nor is worst-case characterizations,
but the "practical usefulness" of any asymptotic
complexity measures whatsoever.

>  It's *WORST-CASE*, by definition; and includes no
> indications whatsoever of how close to the asymptote one can actually
> get on a given finite-size machine.  By both issues, it can be totally
> misleading -- and, "it's not what you don't know, that hurts... it's
> what you know WHICH IS NOT SO".  By its MISLEADING characteristics,
> big-O can be SERIOUSLY DAMAGING to the abilty of "designing on the back
> of an envelope" (or in your head, or at a whiteboard).
>
>> they capture at least some of that "rough idea"
>> in a somewhat more easily communicable and much
>> more precise fashion.
>
> Entirely precise, and therefore, in such cases as quicksort and hash
> tables (hardly "obscure corner cases" -- CENTRAL PILLARS of many
> designs!!!) all that more misleading.

So *what* do we substitute for what little "precision"
asymptotic complexity measures can give us? - Just
mindless testing and having us conditioned to accept
marketing-style characterization of modules as "blazingly
fast", or "blindingly fast", or "not that fast"?

>>   Maybe you and Steven prefer to be conditioned,
>> Pavlov style, by the wonderful experiences that
>> you get while testing? - This is perhaps really
>> one of my *worst* psychological handicaps, I must
>> admit: that I don't *like* to get conditioned
>> like that, no matter how good it feels, no matter
>> how effective it might be for "practical" work that
>> one has to do.
>
> I like to be able to reason FIRSTLY on the basis of EXPECTED, NORMAL
> behavior,

That's ok with me, and fits my position
sufficiently well that there really is
no room for much argument.

> corrected in the first order by reasonable prudence and
> caution, in the second order by accurate experimentation, and only in
> the third order by considerations of worst-case scenarios -- the latter
> normally tempered by estimates of their likelihood... which also
> requires a rough understanding of CORRELATION between the causes of such
> scenarios, which may be present, both directly or indirectly (assuming
> that different components interacting in a system "may just happen" to
> hit worst-case scenarios for each of them at once may be demonstrably
> wrong in either direction -- and NO big-O analysis will ever help with
> this crucial kind of task!).

Why on earth are you always jumping on worst-case
analysis and Big-Oh (but think Big-Theta and average-case
just wonderful)? - Steven argued against the "practical
usefulness" of any asymptotic complexity measures whatever.

>>   I want to be able to really think *about* what
>> I am doing. And in order to be able to think about
>> it one usually needs some information about the
>> implementation, performance wise, of the language
>> features and the system modules that one might
>> want to use. If you happen to know of any *better*
>> way of offering the requisite information than
>> asymptotic complexity measures then, of course,
>> I am very grateful to hear more about it.
>
> If you can't think about a design without knowing such details about one
> specific implementation of one specific programming language in which
> that design might get implemented, I think this strongly suggests you're
> giving insufficient attention to the one crucial skill in a designer's
> mental armory: *ABSTRACTION*.

Another straw-man attack.
What, if anything, are asymptotic complexity measures
doing if not abstract-away a great deal of details?

>  There are many ways to cultivate one's
> abstraction abilities.  One of my favorite pastimes is collecting
> different renditions of Bach's "Art of the Fugue", for example: Bach
> carefully abstracted away the information about which instrument(s) were
> supposed to be playing which voice(s), as well as many other details --
> because of this, the Art of the Fugue has the highest abstraction level
> among all well-known musical compositions, and each rendition may take a
> different concrete reading of it.  Learn to listen to them and be able
> to tell what they have in common, and where they differ: it's a great
> lesson in the understanding of abstraction.

Ok, we have something in common here: apparently we
both like Bach's polyphonic music.
However, no matter how much I might like Bach, my
preferred way of "learning abstraction abilities"
was studying mathematics.

>  But it's probably only
> appropriate if you like music, and Baroque in particular; other arts and
> discipline may no doubt afford similarly good learning experiences, if
> you know where to look for them.
>
> Once you're confident about your abilities of abstraction, I suggest you
> continue by the exercise of *characterization* (of A FEW
> implementations, ideally) which Jon Bentley (the programmer, not the
> jazz player) suggests pretty close to the start of his masterpiece
> "Writing Efficient Programs" (that great book may be hard to come by
> these days, but the "Programming Pearls" books are also excellent and
> communicate mostly the same messages, quite effectively).  Get a sense
> for the *EXPECTED* (NOT "asymptotic", for your inputs will NOT tend to
> infinity; NOT "worst-case only", don't be THAT pessimistic) behavior of
> some primitive operations - the couple of pages I devote to the subject
> in the Nutshell chapter on optimization, profiling and testing may
> suffice.  Then refine your instinct by taking ONE complicated case, such
> as the natural mergesort variant known as the timsort, and delving as
> deep into its analysis as you dare -- characterize it as best you can
> manage WITHOUT testing, simply by reasoning on its code (Tim's essay,
> part of the Python source distribution, will be a helpful addition to a
> thorought grounding in Knuth's chapter on sorting, for this purpose)...
> then see what a difference it makes, to BE able to experiment!

Your referring to Knuth's work in the context of
this discussion (and referring to him in order
to lecture me) seems a rather strange way
of operating.

> You'll personally traverse, through such exercises, a curve not too
> dissimilar from what the whole of Western thought went through in the
> discovery and refinement of the experimental method

Western thought, for me, starts with Greek mathematics
and philosophy, not with Galileos experimentalism. This
is not to say that carefully executed experiments are
not important, far from it.

> (to some extent it
> can be considered in full bloom in the thoughts and works of Galilei):
> not the blind flailing around of pure trial and error (which HAD,
> however, proved extremely fruitful in eliciting just about all technical
> progress up to that age, and later), much less the ungrounded
> elucubration of pure theoreticism (which HAD, mind you, given great
> results once in a while, e.g. in Euclid, Nagarjuna, Archimedes...) --
> but the powerful, fruitful merging of both strands into the incredibly
> productive golden braid which has pulled progress up during the last few
> centuries.
>
>
>> > Consider, for example, point [b].  Quicksort's big-O is N squared,
>> > suggesting that quicksort's no better than bubblesort or the like.  But
>> > such a characterization is absurd.  A very naive Quicksort, picking its
>> > pivot very systematically (e.g., always the first item), may hit its
>> > worst case just as systematically and in cases of practical importance
>> > (e.g., already-sorted data); but it takes just a little extra care (in
>> > the pivot picking and a few side issues) to make the worst-case
>> > occurrences into ones that will not occur in practice except when the
>> > input data has been deliberately designed to damage by a clever and
>> > determined adversary.
>> >
>> > Designing based on worst-case occurrences hardly ever makes
>> > sense in any field of engineering,
>>
>> What's wrong with wanting to have a rough idea
>> of what might happen in the worst case? I believe
>> many engineers are actually expected to think
>> about at least some "worst-case" scenarios.
>
> Not extrapolating to infinity.
>
>> Think of nuclear reactors, airplanes, or
>> telephone exchanges (and dont' think of Google
>> for a change). Don't you expect engineers
>> and scientists designing, for example, a nuclear
>> reactor, to think hard about what the worst-case
>> scenario might be? And how likely it might happen?
>
> A square hit by an asteroid of mass tending to infinity?  No, I don't
> expect nuclear reactors (nor anything else of human conception) to be
> designed in consideration of what such an asteroid hit would do.  And
> yet, that's *EXACTLY* what would be indicated by your theory of big-O as
> a guide to design: consider the absolute worst that could conceivably
> happen, with *NO* indications WHATSOEVER of how unlikely it might be
> (because for simplicity of computation you take limits for misfortune
> tending to infinity!!!), and design for THAT.
>
> If our collective ancestors had taken this attitude, we'd still all be
> huddling in deep caves (possibly a better protection against "dinosaurs'
> killer" levels of asteroid hits!), shivering in the cold (fire is FAR
> too dangerous to survive a worst-case analysis, particularly with
> damaging elements all tending to infinity, as your love affair with
> big-O based designs would certainly indicate!!!).  Animal skins?  Forget
> it!!!  Do a perfectly pessimistic worst-case analysis with suitable
> extrapolations to infinity and such skins would no doubt carry germs
> enough to exterminate the budding human race (not that extinction might
> not be preferable to the utterly miserable "lives" the few humans might
> lead if "big-O" had guided their design concerns, mind you!-).
>
>
>> (And *no* testing whatsoever in that direction,
>> please!) Not thinking is, admittedly, a lot easier.
>
> I would consider ANYBODY who built a nuclear reactor without AMPLE
> testing dangerous enough for all of mankind to shoot on sight.

I just argued that the actual worst-case scenario
cannot - and should not - be tested (in the case
of nuclear reactors). And I still hold to *that*
assertion ;-)

>  I would
> expect HUGE amounts of simulation-based testing,

Hullo! That's interesting: simulation-based testing.
But that's based on theory. Real experimentalism
substitutes experiment for theory, and therefore
action for thought.

> followed and
> interspersed by prototypes (smaller and simplified)

Again, here theory is needed: because you have
to use theory to deduce what that scale change
and simplification implies for the real case.

> to validate that the
> simulations' tests are indeed perfectly respondent to actual reality.
>
> I haven't seen anybody on this thread advocating "not thinking"; if
> you're somehow implying that I'm trying to discourage people from
> thinking IN USEFUL AND PRODUCTIVE WAYS, I challenge you to point to
> anything I wrote here that could be construed that way.

The point was that executing (hastily slapped together)
tests - and devoutly believing in the output one gets -
is the way to go. This is foregoing some thinking before
acting, is it not?

>> <snip/>
>>
>> > Why bother doing
>> > (e.g.) random pivot selection in quicksort, when its big-O (i.e.,
>> > worst-case) behavior will remain N-squared, just like naive quicksort,
>> > or, for that matter, bubblesort?
>>
>> Because worst-case is not the only measure of
>> computational complexity that one might be
>> interested in. For some applications one may
>> be able to accept relatively bad worst-case
>> behavior, if it doesn't happen too often.
>
> But big-O, which is what you advocate,

No, Big-Oh is just one of the several asymptotic
complexity measures under discussion. By pounding
on big-oh and mistaking it for a synonym for
"worst-case" is just attacking a straw-man (not me).

> gives *NO* indication of how
> likely or unlikely it might be, in particular -- a TERRIBLE failing.

Well, one can augment it with information about
the likelihood of its occurrence. Just because
big-oh (or average case, best case or worst
case) doesn't give you *everything* you would
like to known, doesn't mean it's worth nothing.

>> This is why for these people we might provide
>> information about average case behavior (and
>> then the difference between quicksort and
>> bubblesort clearly shows).
>
> Of COURSE you might!  Who, pray, is stopping you from so doing, except
> perhaps your own laziness and the fact that you prefer to pontificate
> about the work that OTHERS should (you believe) do for you FOR FREE, IN
> ADDITION to the other work they're already so doing, rather than
> constructively participating in the collective effort yourself?

I am not pontificating at all (but,
maybe, it is you pontificating here).
I was just suggesting that in order
to have a sufficiently clear idea about
what computational complexity attaches
to what feature of this or that library
module, I would have to read the source
and figure out how it's being done.
But that's not really a very effective
way of operating - not just for me
but for all the many who find themselves
in a similar situation. Note too, that
whoever implements a libary module not
only knows his implementation very well,
but has, by definition, already invested
some amount of thought into the question
of computational complexity of what
his module offers. So why not just write
it down, for a change?

> You argued for big-O information, and now you're arguing for more
> information (that's much harder to provide in mathematically rigorous
> form) regarding "averages" (over WHAT distribution of input
> permutations?  Why would you think that all permutations are equally
> likely?  In the real world, they're not, but they ARE incredibly hard to
> characterize -- you'd better pick a very specific, tiny subfield of
> application for sorting, to be able to supply AMPLE experimental support
> for your theories... theory without any experimentation to support it
> can be worse than worthless, it can be truly DIS-informing!).  Very
> well, if you're so convinced this information will be precious (worth
> more than, say, the optimizations and new components which people might
> alternatively produce, investing as they prefer their own time and
> efforts), LEAD BY EXAMPLE.  Pick ONE relatively simple issue of
> performance, and explore it to the level of breadth and depth you
> believe "analytical" (as opposed to *experimental*) performance
> characterization should go.
>
> If you're willing to DO SOME WORK rather than SPEND YOUR TIME WHINING,

Ha, ha, another figment of your imagination.
Now I am "whining". Not at all. The very verbosity
of your reaction to my not that long post seems to
indicate that what I had written really did hurt
you - and certainly *not* because it was nonsensical.
Nonsense never hurts anybody - except the one who
is uttering it.

> you will either produce some beautiful results whose practical
> importance will stun others into following your lead, or find out that,
> in the real world, there are more things in heaven and earth etc --
> e.g., that behavior of virtual memory implementations SWAMPS any subtle
> theoretical effects you thought would matter, for containers big enough
> to matter, and well before getting anywhere close to the "asymptote" of
> big-O and perhaps even big-Theta.
>
> One way or another, something useful will be achieved, which surely
> cannot be said about the present thread.

Let's limit this to the present post...

>>   For others, such worst-case behavior may not
>> be acceptable. For those other applications,
>> a good worst-case may be what is required.
>> This is why this second category of programmers
>> needs to know about the worst-case. - But I am
>> certainly belaboring the obvious...
>
> You are (perhaps without realizing it) pointing out that the big-O
> characterization which you originally demanded is basicaly useless to
> everybody (considering that a system has several subcomponents, and the
> conditions under which each reaches worst-case are NOT necessarily
> uncorrelated but might be positively or negatively correlated!).  Except
> perhaps theoreticians needing to publish theoretical papers, of
> course;-).

.. and Computer Science *undergrads* required to
learn about it? For what terrible fools are
you mistaking their profs?

>> Of course, the programs that have been designed
>> on the basis of such information can (and ought
>> to be) tested. Then some surprises (*not* predicted
>> by theory) might happen: but if they do not happen
>> too often, theory has done a good job - and so has
>> the programmer...
>
> That would follow only if the total amount of work (properly accounting
> for the huge amounts needed to collect "theoretically" sound
> characterizations)

Certainly, if every programmer has to figure
out such theoretically sound characterizations
from scratch (by reading and analyzing the
relevant library source code) then it's really
going to be a huge amount of work for a huge
number of people. And that was just my point...

> was somehow reduced compared to alternative
> approaches, based more on sound engineering practice and less on
> reminescences of mathematics.
>
> I believe that, out of all the iron suspension bridges designed and
> built in the 19th century, ONE is standing -- the Brooklin Bridge.
> Others were designed with "sounder theory" and (althought NOT real
> "worst case analysis" -- none considered direct asteroid impacts, nor
> did any designer "extrapolate to infinity"!!!-) tried to cover
> "reasonable" worst cases as the best theory available to them afforded.
> And they all went down in the following decades.
>
> The designer of the Brooklin Bridge followed sound engineering practice:
> he designed based on TYPICAL (NOT worst-case) behavior, supported by
> small-scale prototypes, THEN, knowing perfectly well that he couldn't be
> sure he knew exactly WHAT worst-case he needed to ward about... he
> doubled the thickness of all steel ropes and load-bearing beams.  So,
> HIS bridge is still standing (as is, say, Renzo Piano's airport terminal
> building in Japan, where ALL Japanese buildings all around crumbled to
> dust in a terrible earthquake... Piano may be an architect rather than
> an engineer, but my respect for his craft knows no bounds).
>
> I gather you want nuclear reactors, and programs, designed by the praxis
> of all those OTHER suspension bridge designers of the 19th century; I
> want them designed by the praxis by which the Brooklin Bridge was
> designed.  But in this case, you have an excellent chance to prove me
> wrong: just put some of your work where your mouth is!  And I'll be
> quite happy to help, because, even if (as I surmise) the attempt at
> theoretical characterization proves pragmatically unsuccessful (in terms
> of actual usefulness, and specifically of "bang for the buck"), even
> then, if serious work has been put towards it, an empirically important
> result is obtained.
>
> I suspect you'll just find half-assed excuses to shirk the work which
> your suggestions imply, but for once I'd be happy to be proved wrong...
>

Thank you for your answer. Thank you for the time
you invested to write this down. However, being
not only something of an "armchair programmer"
but also an "armchair psychologist (if not
psychoanalyst)" I cannot help smiling at this
point...

Regards,
Christian




From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 16:32:27 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:32:27 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130531547.382976.262260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

yes... Thats the idea...



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 11:33:47 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:33:47 +0200
Subject: passing variable arguments to a function
References: <1129216706.981025.17750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dilup0$9oh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ryan Wilcox wrote:

> I want to be able to pass a variable number of parameters into a Python
> function. Now, I know how to _receive_ variable arguments, but I don't
> know how to _send_ them.
>
> def myFunction(*args):
>     print args
>
> myList = [1, 2, 3, 4]
> myFunction(myList)
>
> this function will print out ([1, 2, 3, 4]).
>
> Except that's not what I want. I want the equivalent to:
>
> myFunction(1, 2, 3, 4)
>
> So, given an array, how can I unpack the array and pass all of the
> elements into a Python function as parameters?

same syntax:

    myFunction(*myList)

</F>





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Oct 13 19:49:32 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 23:49:32 +0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <33765778-7F70-438D-8020-1FEC94CE1FA9@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <87irw1kmer.fsf@pobox.com>

Kenneth McDonald <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> writes:
[...]
> both doing fairly well in general. I'm already aware of the licensing  
> issues surrounding qt (fwiw, I think their license fee for commercial  
> use is eminently reasonable), so aside from that, I was wondering if  
[...]

Qt 4 is available as GPL even on Windows.


John



From nidhog at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 09:50:05 2005
From: nidhog at gmail.com (nidhog at gmail.com)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 06:50:05 -0700
Subject: sorting tuples...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062.1127903520.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1126964468.444025.181180@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<432c509b.1722003970@news.oz.net>
	<1127309773.933454.179350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dh8ovo$r6$1@wake.carmen.se>
	<1127872496.240821.46250@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<m2zmpx6h31.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<mailman.1062.1127903520.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128347405.319555.66210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Steve Holden wrote:
> Dan Sommers wrote:
> > On 27 Sep 2005 19:01:38 -0700,
> > nidhog at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >>with the binary stuff out of the way, what i have is this string data:
> >
> >
> >>20050922 # date line
> >>mike
> >>mike's message...
> >>20040825 # date line
> >>jeremy
> >>jeremy's message...
> >>...
> >
> >
> >>what i want to do is to use the date line as the first data in a tuple
> >>and the succeeding lines goes into the tuple, like:
> >
> >
> >>(20050922, mike, mike's message)
> >
> >
> >>then when it matches another date line it makes another new tuple with
> >>that date line as the header data and the succeeding data, etc..
> >
> >
> >>(20050922, mike, mike's message)
> >>(20040825, jeremy, jeremy's message)
> >>...
> >
> >
> >>then i would sort the tuples according to the date.
> >
> >
> >>is there an easier/proper way of doing this without generating alot of
> >>tuples?
> >
> >
> > You want a dictionary.  Python dictionaries map keys to values (in other
> > languages, these data structures are known as hashes, maps, or
> > associative arrays).  The keys will be the dates; the values will depend
> > on whether or not you have multiple messages for one date.
> >
> > If the dates are unique (which, looking at your data, is probably not
> > true), then each item in the dictionary can be just one (who, message)
> > tuple.
> >
> > If the dates are not unique, then you'll have to manage each item of the
> > dictionary as a list of (who, message) tuples.
> >
> > And before you ask:  no, dictionaries are *not* sorted; you'll have to
> > sort a separate list of the keys or the items at the appropriate time.
> >
> I'm not sure this advice is entirely helpful, since it introduces
> complexities not really required by the simplistic tuple notation the OP
> seems to be struggling for.
>
> Following the old adage "First, make it work; then (if it doesn't work
> fast enough) make it faster)", and making the *dangerous* assumption
> that each message genuinely is exactly three lines, we might write:
>
> msglist = []
> f = open("theDataFile.txt", "r")
> for date in f:
>    who = f.next() # pulls a line from the file
>    msg = f.next() # pulls a line from the file
>    msglist,append((date, who, msg))
> # now have list of messages as tuples
> msglist.sort()
>
> After this, msglist should be  date-sorted list of messages. Though who
> knows what needs to happen to them next ...

just to spit it all out to stdout in a nice formatted form so I can
save it to a file.

I'm still confused though, but I'm working on it. struct is nice.

>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
> PyCon TX 2006                          www.pycon.org



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Oct 19 18:23:16 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:23:16 -0700
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <75DF16E6-AC4F-4ABE-A16C-0FAC7A089460@sbcglobal.net>
References: <mailman.2030.1129235229.509.python-list@python.org>
	<200510191222.14334.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<75DF16E6-AC4F-4ABE-A16C-0FAC7A089460@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <200510191523.16843.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

First, my apologies. You sound sincere.

But, in my defense to jump to conclusions and comparisons:

 (1) You compared first:

        "Windows has so many annoyances that I can only compare it...Bay
        Area...OS X...Portland..."

 (2) "Unfortunate reasons" can not necessarily be interpreted as "beyond my
     control". For instance, elected officials take office many times for
     "unfortunate reasons." Not the least of which is often the ignorance of
     the populace.

I propose that any time anyone suggests switching to Windows, the reasons for 
such should be explicitly described, and not left to interpretation.

James

On Wednesday 19 October 2005 14:31, Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> Perhaps you didn't read my original post? I'm being forced to
> consider Windows
> for reasons beyond my control. Given that I wanted a decent shell in
> Windows,
> I thought I would ask about Python shells because I think Python is a
> great language,
> and such a beast would give me the flexibility I want on a machine I
> don't want to
> use.
>
> There is such a shell (though with a fifty page manual it'll be a
> little while before
> I start using it :-) ). End of matter, except for those who wish to
> discuss further
> Pythonish/shell related issues. Why this demands an OS comparison and an
> insult is beyond my understanding.
>
> Ken
>
> On 19-Oct-05, at 2:22 PM, James Stroud wrote:
> > The OP is obviously a troll. Or he doesn't realize that you can use
> > any shell
> > in OSX as the user default. I used OSX for 4 years and had to go
> > 100% Linux
> > because of my employer. OSX is the best of Linux and Windows--
> > anybody who
> > can't see that has obviously not worked with these three types of
> > operating
> > systems enough and is basing conclusions on limited
> > information...Or is a
> > troll. The OP probably works for microsoft.
> >
> > James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Mon Oct  3 12:40:43 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:40:43 GMT
Subject: Unicode charmap decoders slow
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-69AACB.23331402102005@news.verizon.net>
	<43410f1b$0$7019$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-BBA4DA.12405103102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <43410f1b$0$7019$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de>,
 "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> Tony Nelson wrote:
> > Is there a faster way to decode from charmaps to utf-8 than unicode()?
> 
> You could try the iconv codec, if your system supports iconv:
> 
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python-codecs/practicecodecs/iconv/

I had seen iconv.  Even if my system supports it and it is faster than 
Python's charmap decoder, it might not be available on other systems.  
Requiring something unusual in order to do a trivial LUT task isn't an 
acceptable solution.  If I write a charmap decoder as an extension 
module in Pyrex I can include it with the program.  I would prefer a 
solution that doesn't even need that, preferably in pure Python.  Since 
Python does all the hard wark so fast it certainly could do it, and it 
can almost do it with "".translate().
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From ajikoe at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:51:39 2005
From: ajikoe at gmail.com (ajikoe at gmail.com)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 00:51:39 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
Message-ID: <1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

try to use set.
    L1 = [1,1,2,3,4]
    L2 = [1,3, 99]
    A = set(L1)
    B = set(L2)

    X = A-B
    print X

    Y = B-A
    print Y

    Z = A | B
    print Z
    
Cheers,
pujo



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 21:59:38 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:59:38 GMT
Subject: Setting Class Attributes
References: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<435e91b1$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<1130281061.552882.134540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435edfbe.968502823@news.oz.net>

On 25 Oct 2005 15:57:41 -0700, "the.theorist" <the.theorist at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> the.theorist a =E9crit :
>> > I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
>> > other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
>> > some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
>> > the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
>> > instance to hold separate entries.
>> >
>> > #----------Begin module test.py
>> > class ex:
>>
>> class ex(object): # oldstyle classes are deprecated
>>
>> >     def __init__(self, val=3D{}):
>> >         self.value =3D val
>>
>> You didn't search very long. This is one of the most (in)famous Python
>> gotchas: default args are evaluated *only once*, when the function
>> definition is evaluated (at load time). This is also a dirty trick to
>> have a 'static' (as in C) like variable.
>>
>> The solution is quite simple:
>> class ex(object):
>>    def __init__(self, val=3DNone):
>>      if val is None: val =3D {}
>>      self.value =3D val
>>
>> (snip)
>
>Hey, that was extremely helpful. I suspect that the default args
>evaluation is optimized for speed. So it makes sense to use the None
>assignment, and a test condition later.
That sounds like you missed the important point: The reason for using None
instead of {} as a default argument is that default arguments are only
evaluated when the function is defined, not when it's called, so if the
default value is {}, that very _same_ dict will be used as default for
the next call to __init__, so you will have every instance of ex looking
at the same val and binding it to its self.value, and then if one instance
modifies it (which it can, since a dict is mutable), the other instances
will see the modification in their self.value dicts. The None default
prevents re-use of a dict that wasn't actually passed in as an argument
replacing the default in the call. The call-time test for None discovers
that a fresh dict is needed, and self.value = {} creates that fresh dict
when __init__ executes, so the new instance gets its own separate self.value dict.

Nothing to do with optimization. In fact, re-using the shared default dict
would be faster, though of course generally wrong.
>
>Worked like a charm, Thanks!
>
Just wanted to make sure you realize why it made a difference, in case ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From loris at caren.demon.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 06:13:07 2005
From: loris at caren.demon.co.uk (Loris Caren)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:13:07 +0100
Subject: assignment to reference
Message-ID: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>

If

a = 'apple'
b = 'banana'
c = 'cabbage'

How can I get something like:-

for i in 'abc':
    r = eval(i)    
    if r == 'cabbage': r = 'coconut'

actually change the object referenced by r rather
than creating a new object temporarily referenced by it?

I've tried playing with eval and exec without the desired
effect.


From bwsanders at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 10:43:12 2005
From: bwsanders at gmail.com (Ben)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 07:43:12 -0700
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
Message-ID: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Could anyone suggest an open source project that has particularly well
written Python?  I am especially looking for code that people would
describe as "very Python-ic".  (Not trying to start any kind of war -
just wanted some good examples of a well written Python app to read.)

Thanks!
-Ben

P.S. - Sorry if this has been discussed at length before - I searched
the group before I posted, but didn't come up with what I was looking
for.



From sam at email-scan.com  Sun Oct  2 10:42:30 2005
From: sam at email-scan.com (Sam)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:42:30 -0500
Subject: Setting optimum gtkhtml2 widget size.
Message-ID: <cone.1128264152.467893.25645.500@commodore.email-scan.com>

I'm putting gtkhtml2.View() inside a gtk.ScrolledWindow, which goes into a 
gtk.Dialog.vbox.

How do I obtain gtkhtml2.View's preferred height, and set the dialog's 
height accordingly, given a specific width?

I can do a gtk.Dialog.set_default_size() up front, specifying the width and 
height large enough for everything, then create all the widgets, and realize 
them.

But then, even after I realize everything I can't get any useful metrics 
from gtkhtml2.View().  None of the usual suspects -- get_size_request, 
get_allocation -- give anything useful.

I also tried not using a ScrolledWindow, but adding gtkhtml2 as 
gtk.Dialog.vbox's child.
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From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 14:22:18 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:22:18 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.18.22.16.941081@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:57:19 +0000, John Bokma wrote:

> As soon as products can't evolve 
> much more, the producers will find ways to make them even better 
> compared to last week.

So once a product can't evolve any more, then it will suddenly
start evolving much more.

Riiiiight.

Well, I think that's just demonstrated the quality of John's reasoning
ability. 

-- 
Steven.



From cs at totallybogus.com.invalid  Thu Oct 27 10:37:02 2005
From: cs at totallybogus.com.invalid (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:37:02 -0500
Subject: strange problems with urllib2
References: <1130364688.010192.39650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130423822_103@spool6-east.superfeed.net>



> When I run this code on windows it runs quickly 
> (about a second per image) but when I run it on linux 
> it runs very very slowly (10+ seconds per image).
> .... 

jdonnell ....

  I'm running a 1999 vintage 250 MHz Compaq
  with Debian Gnu/Linux & Python 2.3.5 ....

  The following version of your code
  worked very well here ....

# ---------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

'''
    NewsGroup .... comp.lang.python
    Date ......... 2005-10-26
    Posted_By .... jdonnell
    Edited_By .... Stanley C. Kitching
'''

import sys
import time
import urllib2

this_module = sys.argv[ 0 ]

beg = time.time()

f = urllib2.urlopen( 'http://site.heavenlytreasures.com/images/e6115.jpg' )

outfile = open( 'e6115.jpg' , 'wb' )

outfile.write( f.read() )

outfile.close()

f.close()

end = time.time()

dt  = end - beg

print 
print '    %s' % this_module
print
print '        Image saved .... %.4f Seconds ' % dt
print

# ---------------------------------------------------


sk at cpq1 :  ~/python  $ ./urllib2_image_get.py

    ./urllib2_image_get.py

        Image saved .... 0.3973 Seconds


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 10 14:02:01 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:02:01 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>
	<86psqfmukd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sghhk1hcom1adf7ic99j253bks1j54iqs4@4ax.com>
	<864q7rm1cb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Itt.592@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <86r7ati73a.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:
> The "user mode" uses style sheets you specify.
>
> There's a whole bunch of built-in ones - and you can cascade them:

Yup, saw those.

> ``There is also the inclusion of 12 packaged user style sheets and an easy 
>   menu application interface (View > Style). These sheets can be cascaded 
>   together, with or without the page's styles.

How do you set things to cascade those with the page's styles? I
couldn't see anything obvious in the UI, and the Opera help pages
didn't provide much help either.

       Thanks,
       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From carsten at uniqsys.com  Mon Oct 24 08:15:52 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:15:52 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Python API InformixDB-2.0 released
Message-ID: <1130156151.12635.26.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

Hi everybody,

Thanks to significant code contributions by Daniel Smertnig, I am proud
to announce release 2.0 of the Informix implementation of the Python
DB-API, a mere 5 weeks after release 1.5.

Downloads and info at http://informixdb.sourceforge.net/

This release features the following improvements over InformixDB-1.5:

* Full compliance with version 2 of the DB-API specification, including
many useful optional features suggested by the specification.

* Improved documentation: Command line help and HTML manual.

* Improved portability: The module now builds painlessly on Windows, and
a binary installer for Python 2.4 is provided.

Note that this release requires Python 2.2 or better, and it breaks
backwards compatibility with version 1 of the DB-API specification. If
either of these are a problem for you, you may still use InformixDB-1.5,
but I strongly recommend upgrading as I won't develop InformixDB-1.5 any
further.

Best regards,

Carsten Haese.




From anno4000 at lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de  Fri Oct 28 15:13:25 2005
From: anno4000 at lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 19:13:25 GMT
Subject: Typing tutor help script needed, please
References: <1130507926.729061.125850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djtt8l$5hd$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>

Throw <throw at workmail.co.za> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> 
> G'day everyone!
> 
> I would like to design typing tutor exercises for Afrikaans (and other
> languages possibly).  This is for a GPL project.  For this, I need a
> script that can extract words from a long list of words, based on which
> letters those words contain, and write then write output to a file.
> Does anyone know of an existing script for this, or can anyone write me
> one, please?

For the letters a, d, f and g:

perl -ne 'print if /^[adfg]+$/' < /list/of/words > words_with_adfg

For other combinations, change both occurrences of "adfg".

Anno
-- 
If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on 
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the 
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 08:11:45 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:11:45 +0200
Subject: Problem with subprocess.call and cp
References: <87wtk430uz.fsf@wilson.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <djfum3$7ej$1@sea.gmane.org>

Torsten Bronger wrote:

> The following code
>
> from subprocess import call
> call(['cp', 'subdir/*.jpg', 'othersubdir/'])
>
> yields
>
> cp: call of stat for "subdir/*.jpg" not possible: File or directory not found
>
> (This may not be the real error message since it's back-translated
> from German.)  I could use shell=True, however, what's going wrong
> here?

under Unix, it's the shell that expands glob patterns.  individual commands
usually don't know anything about such patterns.

so if you run the "cp" command directly, it will look for a single file named
"subdir/*.jpg".  if you run it via the shell, it will get a list of matching files
from the shell.

here's a corresponding pure-python solution, btw:

    import glob, shutil
    for file in glob.glob("subdir/*.jpg"):
        shutil.copy(file, "othersubdir")

</F>





From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 29 15:21:35 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:21:35 +0100
Subject: Automatic binding of  **kwargs to variables
In-Reply-To: <dk0ebb$g6g$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1130539752.667045.183460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<djvb4b$1ga$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.2701.1130606177.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dk0ebb$g6g$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <dk0i3u$l9i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Why don't you just change the method signature to foo(self, x, y, z,
>>>whatever, **kwargs)?
> 
> 
>>Probably because values are then required for those arguments. Plus it's
>>a lot of work to specify "a very long list", and the list will also need
>>maintaining.
> 
>  
> Note that I kept the **kwargs argument. He would only have to specify
> variables that are actually used in foo(), and these need maintaining
> anyway. As to optional arguments, you can provide default values. Checking
> for those is easier and safer than using local variables that may not be
> bound or accidentally refer to a global.
> 
Now I think I understand your intention better. Further discussion would 
be flogging horse already dead for several days.

> # e. g.
> missing = object() # if None is a valid state of whatever
> def foo(self, whatever=missing, **kwargs):
>     if whatever is not missing:
>         # use whatever
> 
> 
>>I must, however, agree with Mike's advice: it's unwise to try and
>>pollute a function's namespace with arbitrary variables. Some kind of
>>bunch-like object would seem to be the most satisfactory way to go.  
> 
> 
> Using a bunch doesn't remove the necessity of an existence-test either (for
> optional attributes).
> 
No more it does.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Tue Oct 25 21:16:00 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:16:00 GMT
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-A70110.21161425102005@news.verizon.net>

In article <1130274796.584531.229340 at g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "David Poundall" <david at jotax.com> wrote:

> I am writing a scada package that has a significant amount of user
> defined parameters stored in text files that I wish to cleanly access
> in code.  By way of an example, a few lines from the configuration file
> would typically be ...
> 
> [Plant Outputs]
> Y0	P1	Pump 1 Pressure
> Y1	P2	Pump 2 Fluid Transfer Pump
> Y2	P3	Pump 3 Vac Pump
> Y3	P4	Pump 4 Vac Pump
> Y4	P5	Pump 5 / Pump 1B
> Y5	P6	Pump 6 / Pump 2B
> Y6	M
> Y7	D
> Y10	E
> Y11	F
> 
> I can read these values in as dictionary items and refernce them in
> code like this...
> 
> Y['P4'] = 1   # Which will ultimately switch my pump on
> Y['P3'] = 0   # Which will ultimately switch my pump off
> 
> but I would much rather reference the plant outputs like this ...
> 
> Y.P4 = 1
> Y.P3 = 0
 ...

d = {'a':1, 'b':2, 'c':3}

class foo:
    def __init__(self, d):
        self.__dict__.update(d)

f = foo(d)

print f.a, f.b, f.c

(retyped from memory)
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 08:23:30 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:23:30 +0200
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
References: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><mailman.1419.1128412905.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128427778.421720.205370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhts82$5a9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Amir Michail wrote:

> Is there an easy way to do this without modifying the configuration of
> the cgi server and without running a cgi server on the other machine
> where the script will actually run?
>
> Perhaps someone wrote a simple server that provides the required
> environment for the cgi script to run?
>
> I'm looking for something simple that does not require root access.

you could of course use something like

    http://docs.python.org/lib/module-CGIHTTPServer.html

or some other light-weight web server, but you should probably have in mind
that doing things like this without coordinating with your server administrators
and security architects *before* you start tinkering can be a excellent way to
get fired...

</F> 





From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 21:03:02 2005
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator at aol.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 18:03:02 -0700
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1737.1128732401.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128733382.015447.231300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Ivan Shevanski wrote:
> Alright heres another noob question for everyone.  Alright, say I have a
> menu like this.
>
> print "1. . .Start"
> print "2. . .End"
> choice1 = raw_input("> ")
>
> and then I had this to determine what option.
>
>
> if choice1 in ('1', 'Start', 'start'):
>     #do first option
> if choice1 in ('2', 'End', 'end'):
>     #do second option
>
> Is there a way (I searched for a module but didnt find one) that I can do
> something like this?
>
> if choice1 in ('1', 'S', 's'):
>     #do first option
> if choice1 in ('2', 'E', 'e'):
>     #do second option

Why not just look at the first letter the user types instead of
the whole string?

 if choice1[0] in ('1', 'S', 's'):
     #do first option
 if choice1[0] in ('2', 'E', 'e'):
     #do second option


>
>
> For instance I could type in Stop and would get the first option since it
> had an "s" in it?
> Anyone heard of any way to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> -Ivan
>
>
>
> By the way, if anyone gets tired of my persistant noob questions please tell
> me I don't want to bother anyone =D
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From no at spam  Sun Oct  2 17:06:25 2005
From: no at spam (D H)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:06:25 -0500
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Ge-dnXvNWpFI1t3eRVn-jw@comcast.com>

James A. Donald wrote:
> I am contemplating getting into Python, which is used by engineers I
> admire - google and Bram Cohen, but was horrified to read
> 
> "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
> 
> Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will
> mysteriously fail to work with no error message.
> 
> If you don't declare variables, you can inadvertently re-use an
> variable used in an enclosing context when you don't intend to, or
> inadvertently reference a new variable (a typo) when you intended to
> reference an existing variable.
> 
> What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug?

It's a fundamental part of python, as well as many other scripting 
languages.
If you're not comfortable with it, you might try a language that forces 
you to declare every variable first like java or C++.
Otherwise, in python, I'd recommend using variable names that you can 
easily spell.  Also do plenty of testing of your code.  It's never been 
an issue for me, although it would be nicer if python were 
case-insensitive, but that is never going to happen.


From javajohn at cox.net  Tue Oct 11 10:50:38 2005
From: javajohn at cox.net (John Waycott)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:50:38 -0700
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <slrndkmk7i.p68.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<A_CdnfnrU4zBT9feRVn-jw@telcove.net>
	<slrndkmk7i.p68.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <%iQ2f.68939$lq6.51076@fed1read01>

Ville Voipio wrote:
> In article <A_CdnfnrU4zBT9feRVn-jw at telcove.net>, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
> 
>>All in all, it would seem that the reliability of the Python run time is the
>>least of your worries.  

I agree - design of the application, keeping it simple and testing it 
thoroughly is more important for reliability than implementation 
language. Indeed, I'd argue that in many cases you'd have better 
reliability using Python over C because of easier maintainability and 
higher-level data constructs.

> 
> Well, let's put it this way. I have seen many computers running
> Linux with a high load of this and that (web services, etc.) with
> uptimes of years. I have not seen any recent Linux crash without
> faulty hardware or drivers.
> 
> If using Python does not add significantly to the level of 
> irreliability, then I can use it. If it adds, then I cannot
> use it.
> 

I wrote a simple Python program that acts as a buffer between a 
transaction network and a database server, writing the transaction logs 
to a file that the database reads the next day for billing. The simple 
design decoupled the database from network so it wasn't stresed during 
high-volume times. The two systems (one for redundancy) that run the 
Python program have been running for six years.

-- John Waycott


From peterm at resmed.com.au  Sun Oct 16 19:44:04 2005
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:44:04 +1000
Subject: Python on the Power PC
References: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	<mailman.1825.1128928745.509.python-list@python.org>
	<6ID2f.21$QL5.426@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	<1129415944.336861.63730@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<hzB4f.119$sV4.444@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <9BB4f.120$sV4.478@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Nope, spoke too soon! The Pocket PC seemed to be doing something and I
thought it was OK - obviously you can't just copy "lib-tk" into the Pocket
PC Python\Lib directory.

What else might I be missing?

Peter

"Peter Milliken" <peterm at resmed.com.au> wrote in message
news:hzB4f.119$sV4.444 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> Thanks for the reply Matt - you must have customised things though from
the
> distribution because this can't (and doesn't! :-)) work i.e. I have
> (already) placed the python23.zip into \Program Files\Python\Lib but there
> is no lib-tk off that point (which is what I believe the .append
instruction
> does in the customize script).
>
> In fact, looking at my Python24 installation on my PC, I can see a lib-tk
> directory off c:\Python24\Lib - but there is no such directory on my
Pocket
> PC - can I just "copy" this directory directly onto my Pocket PC? <see
> below!>
>
> OK, copying the lib-tk directory over to my Pocket PC seems to make the
file
> work - thanks for the help! :-)
>
> Peter
>
>
> <mhykes at gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1129415944.336861.63730 at g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm using the same distribution (or at least that is what I started
> > with). Try using the following sitecustomize.py file:
> >
> > ###### sitecustomize.py ######
> > import sys
> > syspath = sys.path
> > libpath = '\\Program Files\\Python\\Lib'
> > syspath.append(libpath+'\\lib-tk')
> > sys.path = none
> > sys.path = syspath
> > ##############################
> >
> > You will need to extract the python23.zip into \Program
> > Files\Python\Lib, then add the sitecustomize.py file to the same
> > directory.  Then Python should be able to find the Tkinter module that
> > it is complaining about.
> >
> > - Matt
> >
>
>




From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct  9 10:09:39 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:09:39 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<cuhgk1hcg2qolffufmhmghtij72k2v1sdj@4ax.com>
	<86u0frmvf4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Io3JC3.5LF@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> > On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:41:38 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:

> >>If you've got a browser with a better solution, what's the browser,
> >>and what's the solution?
> > Try Opera. You can merge the two. 
> 
> Merge the two CSS files? Most browsers do that - that's why they call
> them "cascading" style sheets. Got a sample style sheet that you use
> that prevernts authors from overriding things?

Custom style sheets are usually applied after those in the document -
when they are both being applied.

That way, the custom style sheet has the final word.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Wed Oct 19 16:16:48 2005
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:16:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs
References: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<dj686s$srf$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <dj69jg$t3u$1@news.island.liu.se>

I wrote:

>    try:
>	os.makedirs("/tmp/trh/spam/norwegian/blue/parrot/cheese")
>    except os.error, e:
>	if e.errno != errno.EEXIST:
>	    raise

Actually, when I think more about it, one would probably rather
want something like:

    try:
	os.makedirs("/tmp/trh/spam/norwegian/blue/parrot/cheese")
    except os.error, e:
	if ( e.errno != errno.EEXIST  or
	     not os.path.isdir("/tmp/trh/spam/norwegian/blue/parrot/cheese")):
	    raise


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have    !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 only proved it correct, not tried it."      !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From tim at tt1lock.org  Tue Oct 18 03:40:26 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:40:26 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <IoCBKo.9xx@bath.ac.uk>
	<7xu0fkw6ps.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <IoJpBE.Fsp@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at nospam.invalid> wrote or quoted:
> Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:

> > Are there any examples of HTML email causing security problems - outside
> > of Microsoft's software?
> 
> There was a pretty good one that went something like
> 
>   Click this link to download latest security patch!
>    <a href=http://www.mxxxxxx.com.....>Microsoft Security Center</a>
> 
> where "mxxxxxx" is "microsoft" with the letter "i" replaced by some
> exotic Unicode character that looks exactly like an ascii "i" in normal 
> screen fonts.  The attacker had of course registered that domain and
> put evil stuff there.

I didn't think unicode domain names existed.

It seems that they are in the pipeline:

``After much debate and many competing proposals, a system called 
  Internationalizing Domain Names in Applications (IDNA) was adopted as 
  the chosen standard, and is currently, as of 2005, in the process of 
  being rolled out.''

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_names

It looks like the security issues are probably going to be dealt
with via technical fixes:

``On February 17, 2005, Mozilla developers announced that they would ship 
  their next versions of their software with IDN support still enabled, 
  but showing the punycode URLs instead, thus thwarting any attacks while 
  still allowing people to access websites on an IDN domain. This is a 
  change from the earlier plans to disable IDN entirely for the time 
  being.''

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_names

Anyway, I'm inclined to suggest this is a DNS problem.  It would
apply to any format that allowed rendering of domain names using
the unicode character set they are intended to be displayed using.

Even without unicode, the "homograph attack" is still viable, due
to things like the "l"/"I" issue in many fonts - as pointed out on:

http://www.centr.org/docs/2005/02/homographs.html
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct 22 21:00:31 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:00:31 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:24 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    If the deal didn't give you more than it cost you, all you had to do was 
>say 'no'. I understand the frustration at being forced to pay for something 
>what it is worth.

The choice was go along with MS arm twisting or go out of business.

I call that extortion.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From JavaByExample_at_KickJava_com at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 07:21:16 2005
From: JavaByExample_at_KickJava_com at yahoo.com (JavaByExample_at_KickJava_com at yahoo.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 04:21:16 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F0B50692ED3castleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F0B50692ED3castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <1130498475.982772.223560@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?

Wonder why MSN.com is one of the most visited sites, I speculate that
it is largely because it is the default home page of IE browser.

And now Firefox makes Google.com its default home page.

That is one area where they can make lots of money off billion's eye
balls years.

David
=====================================
http://KickJava.com - Java Examples, Source Codes, Free Online Books,
News and Articles



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 19:31:45 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:31:45 +1000
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<p90jk1tspllkptk5q0jsag7gjo0fhb1aj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.23.31.45.89195@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:00:57 +0000, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> 	I'd consider that BASIC to be a fully interpreted language, as the
> tokens are still a one-for-one equivalence of the source code. Python,
> UCSD, and Java are not one-for-one, so on that basis, they fit the
> definition of a compiled language... The difficulty is that the target
> architecture in not realized in hardware.
> 
> 	And then... I believe the PowerPC chipset emulated the 680xx
> instruction set, didn't it? So does that mean old 680xx Mac programs, in
> whatever the original language was, are now "interpreted languages" when
> run on the first PPC Macs (prior to a native PPC build becoming
> available)?


In case it isn't obvious by now, compiled and interpreted are fuzzy
concepts, with lots of wiggle room between them. Your compiled machine
code is interpreted by the CPU. "Compiled" versus "interpreted" are
descriptions that made more sense when there was little overlap between
the two. Once byte-code compilers running an interpreter in a virtual
machine came on the scene, the distinction became less useful.

For what it is worth, Python is compiled AND interpreted -- it compiles
byte-code which is interpreted in a virtual machine. That makes it an
compiling interpreter, or maybe an interpreting compiler, in my book.


-- 
Steven.



From davids at webmaster.com  Wed Oct 26 16:57:47 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:57:47 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message 
news:b94533-nu5.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...

> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

> No they aren't.  A pc o/s is something you load on an IBM pc, and an IBM
> pc is an open format.  There is no "microsoft computer", and there is no
> such thing as a "microsoft computer shop".

    That doesn't at all address my point. The point is, there are large 
numbers of people looking for computers with Windows installed on them. If 
you sell this type of computer, this type of person will come to you.

>> When a shop sells
>> machines that ship with Microsoft Windows, it is to some extent the power 
>> of
>> Microsoft's brand that brings them into the shop.

> No it isn't. Quite the opposite - look at a computer shop or a
> computer advert, and you will see "Pentium 4 3.4GHz 1MB cache, 1GB DDR
> RAM", etc. etc.

    And you will also see "Designed for Windows XP" or a Microsoft logo in 
the ad.

> Really - bar all the argument-shifting and picking up from nonsense
> points, I wish I could find some kernel of sensibleness in your
> argument because at times in the past you have acted sane. But not
> here! If you have an argument, out with the bones of it.  What is it?
> Something like "MS can do anything they like to make a profit"? No -
> they can't. Is it "MS can't be criticised for behaving like mad bad
> bullies"? Uh, uh, yes they can. And so on. What IS your line?

    No, my point is that this specific Microsoft tactic was a *lesser* 
tactic than offering only exclusive wholesale deals and there's nothing 
wrong with a company that only offers exclusive wholesale deals.

    What Microsoft didn't want was someone going to a store to buy a PC with 
Windows and being told that another OS is better and cheaper. If you want to 
sell a competitor's products, Microsoft wasn't going to let you use their 
popularity to draw that person in.

    Why should Microsoft let him build his business selling PCs with Windows 
and then let him sell the customers that he admits he would have only 
because he sells Windows PCs on a competitor's OS? He says he wouldn't have 
had enough customers to stay in business if he didn't offer Windows. Then he 
wants to concvince those customers to use a competitor to Windows. Why 
should Microsoft let him do that?

    If I am working on a new burger that competes with the Whopper, do you 
think Burger King corporate is going to let any restaurant sell my competing 
burger? So that people who go into a Burger King because they want a Whopper 
can be told how my competing burger is cheaper and better?

    Exclusive wholesale arrangements are not unusual at all. And one of the 
main reasons is that you don't want someone specifically looking for your 
brand to then be switched to a competitor.

    The point is, he wouldn't have customers if he didn't offer Windows. His 
customers are coming to him *because* he offers Windows. Microsoft wants a 
portion of the money that he gets solely because he offers Windows. Why 
aren't they entitled to it?

    He admits, he wouldn't have any business or any customers unless he 
offers Windows. That is, it is his offering Windows that allows him to build 
a business, a customer base, and so on. Why is it wrong for Microsoft to 
want a cut of the business that he has only because he offers their 
products?

    This is what Burger King does if you want to sell their burgers.

    DS




From cardeathele at lendleaserei.com  Sun Oct 16 07:01:01 2005
From: cardeathele at lendleaserei.com (Cardea Thelen)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:01:01 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20051016110101.92CA31E4002@bag.python.org>

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<TITLE>404 Not Found</TITLE>
</HEAD><BODY>
<H1>Not Found</H1>
The requested URL was not found on this server.<P>
<HR>
<ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.31</ADDRESS>
</BODY></HTML>




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 02:20:43 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:20:43 -0700
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
In-Reply-To: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128881668.508095.29320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <did180$3nh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Clint Norton wrote:
> Hi all,
>     I'm a student currently in the beginning of my master's degree and
> I'm searching for an interesting open source project written in Python
> to contribute to.
>     I have worked as a programmer for the past few years (mostly in
> academia but also as a typical full time code monkey in a commercial
> company), some of it in python, some in Java (commercial companies
> really seem to like Java).
>     Anyway, which python projects would be a good start? I generally
> like working on algorithmic parts or "Business Logic" and really don't
> like doing interface work. The software I like producing has a tendency
> to make use of the random and/or math modules, if that says something
> about the nature of the work I've done... I really want to give
> something back to the community I've taken so much from in the past.

We could always use more algorithms in scipy. scipy is a large, fairly
loose collection of numerical algorithms. Currently we're in a
transitional period; we're moving over to the new array object (yes,
another one), so the website is a bit out of date. Fortunately, scipy is
loose enough that you could simply jump in and implement a new algorithm
without needing to concern yourself much with the rest of the library. I
suggest poking around the latest SVN branches (listed below) to get a
feel of what's already in there, and then introducing yourself on the
scipy-dev list. I can give you more direct advice about what's missing
and what we would like to include.

http://scipy.org/
http://scipy.net/mailman/listinfo/scipy-dev
http://svn.scipy.org/svn/scipy_core/branches/newcore/
http://svn.scipy.org/svn/scipy/branches/newscipy/

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From ejensen at visi.com  Sat Oct 22 01:20:00 2005
From: ejensen at visi.com (Ed Jensen)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:20:00 -0000
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<3nc*FXJ1q@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
	<11lin723i0e3k80@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.2394.1129943442.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11ljj00hagjaj93@corp.supernews.com>

Bryan <belred at gmail.com> wrote:
> i would not say sion's ratio of 5:1 is dubious.  for what it's worth, i've 
> written i pretty complex program in jython over the last year.  jython compiles 
> to java source code and the number of generated java lines to the jython lines 
> is 4:1.

Most code generators are known to produce non-optimal code.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Oct 13 09:16:53 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:16:53 -0700
Subject: Adding methods to an object
In-Reply-To: <1129208780.605763.218110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129208780.605763.218110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129209413.505672.321100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

This isn't code of mine, it's probably from the cookbook, maybe with
little changes:

| def addMethod(object, method, name=None):
|     if name is None: name = method.func_name
|     class newclass(object.__class__):
|         pass
|     setattr(newclass, name, method)
|     object.__class__ = newclass

name is the name for the new method, if it's None then the name of
"method" is used.

Bye,
bearophile



From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 18:46:41 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:46:41 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <863bmsakgp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djgm0r$k12$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86y84j7w7v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djh3si$ott$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86y84j7w7v.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>> Instead, you outline a class of actions and tag them
>>> all as illegal. That's why we have laws against assault and battery
>>> and unsafe driving. And laws against exercising monopoly power in an
>>> unfair manner.

>>     Interesting how you, again, equate a gun and an argument. It is very
>> important to you to justify responding to arguments with guns. However, I
>> reject that premise at its roots, not just in your application of it.

> Another straw man. I never mentioned the word "gun" at all, and none
> of the crimes I discussed require a gun.

    You can't be that stupid, can you?! Tell me it wasn't obvious to you 
that the phrase "a gun and an argument" means the difference between force 
and disagreement.

> You apparently aren't interested in constructive intercourse on the
> question. You're just interesting in knocking down your own
> arguments. Personally, I'd rather not watch you masterbate.

    You're are the one who brought up assault and battery and unsafe 
driving, equating Microsoft's persuasive negotiation tactics with force in 
an attempt to justify responding to them with force.

    DS




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Oct 26 19:15:49 2005
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:15:49 +1000
Subject: [python-win32] simulate DoEvents by python/wxpython
In-Reply-To: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACD2@torexch.metrigenix.com>
Message-ID: <DAELJHBGPBHPJKEBGGLNMEKMHKAD.mhammond@skippinet.com.au>

Build 205 of win32gui does have PeekMessage etc so you can now write the
message loop in Python should the need arise - however, the various
"PumpMessages" and "PumpWaitingMessages" functions do the same thing, but
are implemented in C.  There are versions of these functions in win32gui and
win32ui.  win32ui is the MFC wrapper, and its version does do it the "MFC
way", as opposed to the vanilla Windows way that win32gui exposes.  Your
code below looks like it is MFC based, so the win32ui versions may work
better for you (eg, work correctly with the MFC idle processing).  If you do
truly only need VB DoEvents style processing (which is not MFC aware),
win32gui.Pump(Waiting)Messages should be fine though.

Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: python-win32-bounces at python.org
[mailto:python-win32-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of James Hu
Sent: Thursday, 27 October 2005 4:10 AM
To: Python-win32 at python.org; python-list at python.org
Subject: [python-win32] simulate DoEvents by python/wxpython


Hi, all gurus,

I  need to simulate DoEvents in VB by python/wxPython,
My application needs to capture live image in a loop until one specific
button pressed
Multi-thread is also not very good solution, for there are big number of
data to exchange between the two threads.

Win32gui doesn't have PeekMessage.

Or translate the folllowinf codes to python?

DoEvents()
{
  MSG msg;
         while ( ::PeekMessage( &msg, NULL, 0, 0, PM_NOREMOVE ) )
        {
        if ( !PumpMessage( ) )
        {
        ::PostQuitMessage( 1 );
        return FALSE;
        }
        }
        // let MFC do its idle processing
        LONG lIdle = 0;
        while ( OnIdle(lIdle++ ) )
        ;
        return TRUE;
        }
}


Thanks in advance,
James



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Oct 12 20:49:52 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:49:52 +0100
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <7xwtkk6hr4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.21.58.717755@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1794.1128861036.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.07.33.601000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1796.1128872448.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.09.18.16.02.978567@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102238590.18783@urchin.earth.li>
	<7xwtkk6hr4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510130134190.19197@urchin.earth.li>

On Tue, 10 Oct 2005, it was written:

> Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:
>
>> Okay, a crack at a definition: a closure is a function in which some of 
>> the variable names refer to variables outside the function.
>
> That's misleading,

You're right. I don't think it's wrong, but it depends on the reader 
knowing what i mean by 'variable'. I didn't make it clear that variables 
live in an *invocation* of a function, not a definition. IOW, in this 
code:

def foo():
 	x = 1
foo()
foo()

There are two occurrances of assignment, and they are to two *different* 
variables.

Hmm. Maybe i *am* wrong - looking at your example:

>  For example:
>  def f(n):
>     def g(): return n
>     return g
>  h1 = f(1)
>  h2 = f(2)

h1 and h2 are closures, while g is "a function in which some of the 
variable names refer to variables outside the function", but is not a 
closure.

So a closure is something that is created when a function is taken out of 
its lexical environment (through being returned, or passed downwards, or 
stored on the heap); when you take it out, it retains a connection to that 
environment. What we need now is a good metaphor for this ...

> I'd say a closure is a combination of a function (executable code) and a 
> lexical environment (the values of the function's free variables, as 
> taken from surrounding scopes at the time the function was created).

I was trying to avoid the word 'lexical', since a lot of people aren't too 
clear on what that means.

> h1 and h2 are two different closures.  They have the same executable
> code but their environments are different.  In h1, n=1, but in h2, n=2.
> So, h1() will return 1 but h2() will return 2.  Is there really anything
> confusing about this?  All that's happened is that when you call f, f
> allocates a memory slot for n.  g makes a reference to the slot and
> then f returns.  Since the reference to the slot still exists, the slot
> doesn't get GC'd.  When you call f again, it allocates a new slot.

That's quite a good way of explaining it. The thing about closures is that 
they're really obvious when you actually write them, but rather tricky to 
define in words. So, perhaps the best explanation is to walk the reader 
through an example.

> This is all described in SICP (mitpress.mit.edu/sicp).

A lot of things are described in SICP. ISTM that someone should not have 
to read the whole of SICP to understand what closures are.

tom

-- 
That's no moon!


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 13:31:13 2005
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:31:13 -0400
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
Message-ID: <dim5kv$2jl$1@sea.gmane.org>

I can do this with a generator:

    def integers():
        x = 1
        while (True):
            yield x
            x += 1

for i in integers(): 

Is there a more elegant/concise way?



From jmw136 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 12:06:08 2005
From: jmw136 at gmail.com (John W)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:06:08 -0600
Subject: Asyncore Loop Question
Message-ID: <f7d768310510310906p682b068du189090711fdc623b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have a gui application where I am trying to use the asyncore module to
gather data from other computers. I am able to connect, but I am getting
constant handle_write_event method calls into my application. It is
obviously slowing down the gui processing significantly.

My understanding is that the handle_write_event and handle_read_event are
both edge notifications and I should just get the method call essentially
just once.

I think the problem is how I have my loop() call configured. All I am trying
to do with the code below is to open the socket (that works) and then
receive a single handle_write_event method call. Instead, I am getting
constantly barraged with them.

I have tried several different types of the loop() call (using poll,
timeout...) but with no luck. If anyone can explain what I should be doing
to get a single handle_write_event call until I actually write something to
the socket (which my code is not presently doing yet), I would appreciate

Below is some code showing what I am doing:

--------------------------------------------------------------
class Connection(asyncore.dispatcher):
def __init__ (self, server_name, port_num ):
self.message_queue = []

asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
self.create_socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM )
self.connect(( server_name, port_num ))


def handle_read_event( self ):
print "handle_read_event received"


def handle_write_event( self ):
print "Asking for a write"

if len( self.message_queue ) > 0:
# Pop the first message off the queue
self.send_next_message()


class TestApp:
def __init__( self, server_name, port_number ):

self.nomad = Connection( server_name, port_number )
asyncore.loop()


Output ends up being a constant stream of:
Asking for a write
Asking for a write
Asking for a write
Asking for a write
Asking for a write
....
...
...
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From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Mon Oct 10 10:34:50 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:34:50 +0200
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream
	of	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1h47iae.6d2ps91u8eafuN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<mailman.1837.1128950861.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h485kt.1bru0if72epwrN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
   ...
> One thing to keep in mind (if you care about performance) is that you
> one could use bisect, instead of sort, as the sorted list of streams is
> already in order save for the one element you are processing.  Btw, nice
> trick with reverse to reduce memory copying, when did that get 
> introduced?

Python 2.4

>  Wonder if bisect can deal with reverse-sorted elements.  

Not AFAIK.

> Anyway, should reduce the O-complexity of that part of the operation,
> though you'll still have to do a memcpy to shift the rest of the source
> list's array, and if it can't deal with reverse-sorted lists it would
> move you back to front-of-list popping.

Yeah, if you have to pop the front you're O(N) anyway, which is
basically what timsort does with nearly-ordered lists (though timsort
uses O(N) _comparisons_ while bisecting would use O(N) _moves_).


> Oh, we're still missing use of a comparison function in both versions.

Trivial, just have the functions accept a key= and use that to prepare
the auxiliary list they're using anyway.

> I'd think you'd want that functionality *available* if you're going to
> make this a general tool.  You'll also need to check for StopIteration
> on creation of sources for null sequences.

True, the functions as prepared don't accept empty streams (exactly
because they don't specialcase StopIteration on the first calls to
next).  Pretty trivial to remedy, of course.

> Finally, why  the 'i' 
> element?  It's never used AFAICS.

It's used by the list's lexicographic comparison when the first elements
of two lists being compared are equal (which can happen, of course) to
avoid comparing the last elements (which are methods... no big deal if
they get compared, but it makes no logical sense).

So, an example enhanced merge_by_sort:

 
def merge_by_sort(streams, key=None):

  if not key: key = lambda x: x
  sources = []
  for i, s in enumerate(streams):
    try: first_item = s.next()
    except StopIteration: pass
    else: sources.append((key(item), i, item, s.next))

  while sources:
    sources.sort(reverse=True)
    best_source = sources[-1]
    yield best_source[2]
    try: best_source[2] = best_source[-1]()
    except StopIteration: sources.pop()
    else: best_source[0] = key(best_source[2])


Of course, since the sort method DOES accept a key= parameter, this
could be simplified, but I'll leave it like this to make it trivial to
see how to recode the merging by heap as well (in 2.4)...


Alex



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:27:32 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:27:32 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>

On 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they would 
>call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it recommendations? Because 
>it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML standard though, but when people 
>babble about HTML standards they talk about W3C *recommendations*.

What do you think the Internet is based on?  RFCs. That stands for
"Request For Comment".  It is an in-sort of Internet humour to name
standards that way.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 10:57:19 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 14:57:19 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:

>> web based applications that work with any browser make OS irrelevant
>> -> not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter which Linux 
>> distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet people seem to
>> make a point of which distribution they use.
> 
> You make the point yourself now: if web based applications work with
> any browser, people can freely choose their distribution based on
> their own preferences.

Yup, and what will they pick? 

> - An application works in IE, Firefox, Konqueror, Safari, Lynx, Links,
> Opera, ... -> users can use it with any browser on any OS

I think that we both understand that one browser will be more compatible 
then an other. It will only happen if all use exactly the same render 
engine, or all web recommendations are frozen. And if that happens, 
people selling stuff will find ways to make their version just a little 
better.

Look at processors: which one would you buy at the moment? AMD? Intel? 
and if you pick a brand, which type? As soon as products can't evolve 
much more, the producers will find ways to make them even better 
compared to last week.

> - An application only works in IE -> users are forced to use Windows
> (or one of the other few OS's that IE exists on)

Or wait until there comes a solution from a 3rd party. Force doesn't 
exists with software unless you can manipulate the law to enforce it. 
And I don't believe that everybody at Microsoft was/is that stupid to 
think they can make that something they don't controll only works with 
their software. Sure they can make it harder, like I said, you can 
always add things, especially if you are the major player, but Firefox 
is a nice proof that there is no such force, and I doubt that there are 
people working at Microsoft in major positions who didn't see this 
coming.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  7 18:58:45 2005
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 00:58:45 +0200
Subject: ANN: Frog 1.7 (blog server)
Message-ID: <4346fda6$0$11061$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I'm happy to announce the release of Frog 1.7

Frog is a Blog server application written for Snakelets. It is small but has many
features, such as BBcode markup, XHTML+CSS page output, multiple users, no database
required, anti-spam measures, email notification, Smileys, RSS feeds, and more.

For more info, see: http://snakelets.sourceforge.net/frog/


Have fun!

--Irmen de Jong


P.S. if you don't already have Snakelets 1.42 installed, you can download
the 'frogcomplete' package. It includes everything to get Frog up and running.


From http  Sat Oct 15 03:43:05 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 00:43:05 -0700
Subject: MD5 module Pythonicity
References: <6815022a0510142223q3b6ae449ja0483f2f25ebb263@mail.gmail.com>
	<diq8fl$f0r$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2109.1129360954.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd5m7p6nq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Leandro Lameiro <lameiro at gmail.com> writes:
> Maybe I've got a distorted impression about the importance of this. As
> I'm not an experienced programmer, I'd probably trust more in your
> impressions than mine. :)

Good call. :)

> I mean, if we all agreed that it is a common thing, a patch for this
> would probably be accepted, or even if it was an agreed common thing,
> it would still be a bad idea because it would bloat the API?

If it's very common, the extra interface might make some sense.  If
it's uncommon, leave it to the calling program.  Think of a built-in
function that computes sin(sqrt(x)).  Same idea.


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct  2 16:42:49 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:42:49 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
	<7x1x34f85u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <867jcvmz06.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> Well, it's a discussion of why a certain feature might be useful, not
> that it's required.  Mike Meyer points out some reasons it might be
> hard to do smoothly without changing Python semantics in a deep way
> (i.e. Python 3.0 or later).  

Actually, I think that the semantic changes required to make private
do what you want are deep enough that the resulting language wouldn't
be Python any longer. It has deep implications from the interpeter
implementation all the way out to the design of the standard library,
all of which would have to be reworked to make private do "the right
thing."

Not that I think that private is a bad idea. If I'm not writing
python, then I'm probably writing Eiffel. Eiffel has facilities for
protecting features, though the design is more consistent than the
mishmash one gets in C++/Java. Nuts - in Eiffel, you can't write
"instance.attribute = value"; assignment to an attribute has to be
done in a method of the owning instance.

Which brings me to my point. Rather than trying to bandage Python to
do what you want - and what, based on this thread, a lot of other
people *don't* want - you should be building a system from the ground
up to support the kind of B&D environment you want.

Of course, you do realize that in practice you can *never* get what
you want. It assumes that the infrastructure is all bug-free, which
may not be the case.

For example, I once had a system that took a kernel panic trying to
boot an OS upgrade. It had been running the previous versionn of the
OS for most of a year with no problems. Other basically identical
systems ran the upgraded OS just fine. I finally wound up stepping
through the code one instruction at a time, to find that the
subroutine invocation instruction on this machine was setting a bit in
a register that it wasn't supposed to touch, but only in kernel
mode. An internal OS API change meant it only showed up in the
upgraded OS.

The infamous Pentium floating point bug shows that this case isn't
restricted to failing hardware.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From kent37 at tds.net  Sat Oct 15 09:28:03 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:28:03 -0400
Subject: Problem splitting a string
In-Reply-To: <1h4gzkw.1mkaqo31e2d5w7N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
References: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.2104.1129352608.509.python-list@python.org>
	<86u0fjs47c.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4gzkw.1mkaqo31e2d5w7N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <435101fb$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Using sum on lists is DEFINITELY slow -- avoid it like the plague.
> 
> If you have a list of lists LOL, DON'T use sum(LOL, []), but rather
> 
> [x for x in y for y in LOL]

Should be
 >>> lol = [[1,2],[3,4]]
 >>> [x for y in lol for x in y]
[1, 2, 3, 4]

The outer loop comes first.

Kent


From gene.tani at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 07:21:34 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 04:21:34 -0700
Subject: Here I am again, same old arguments
In-Reply-To: <Xns96EE1F36ADD78cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
References: <wg32f.411657$x96.212964@attbi_s72>
	<pan.2005.10.09.12.15.12.523844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96EE1F36ADD78cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1129202494.047971.269520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

google "cheat sheet" or "quick reference"

http://rgruet.free.fr/#QuickRef
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/python22/
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/excerpt/PythonPocketRef/index.html
http://diveintopython.org/appendix/abstracts.html
http://www.yukoncollege.yk.ca/~ttopper/COMP118/rCheatSheet.html
http://www.onlamp.com/python/excerpt/PythonPocketRef/examples/python.pdf


http://www.petefreitag.com/item/455.cfm
http://diveintopython.org/appendix/tips.html



> 3) Where do I find a command list, with syntax and all that fun stuff for Python? I've explored
> the python site to no end, but I can't seem to find a list.
>



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Thu Oct  6 10:09:22 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:09:22 +0200
Subject: Class property
In-Reply-To: <di2qp1$bor$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>	<mailman.1595.1128589518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<di2qp1$bor$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <43453012.1000401@designaproduct.biz>

Peter Otten wrote:

>Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I was trying for a while, but I could not implement a 'classproperty'
>>function. Is it possible at all?
>>    
>>
>
>You could define a "normal" property in the metaclass:
>  
>
The only way I could do this is:

class MyXMetaClass(type):
    _x = 0
    def get_x(cls):
        print "Getting x"
        return cls._x
    def set_x(cls,value):
        cls._x = value
        print "Set %s.x to %s" % (cls.__name__,value)
    x = property(get_x,set_x)

class A(object):
    __metaclass__ = MyXMetaClass
   
print A.x
A.x = 8


Results in:

Getting x
0
Set A.x to 8

But of course this is bad because the class attribute is not stored in 
the class. I feel it should be.
Suppose we want to create a class property, and a class attribute; and 
we would like the property get/set methods to use the values of the 
class attributes.
A real example would be a class that keeps track of its direct and 
subclassed instances:

class A(object):
    cnt = 0
    a_cnt = 0
    def __init__(self):
        A.cnt += 1
        if self.__class__ is A:
            A.a_cnt += 1
           
class B(A):
    pass
   
print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 0,0
b = B()
print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 1,0
a = A()
print A.cnt,A.a_cnt # 2,1

But then, I may want to create read-only class property that returns the 
cnt/a_cnt ratio.
This now cannot be implemented with a metaclass, because the metaclass 
cannot operate on the class attributes:

class A(object):
    cnt = 0
    a_cnt = 0
    ratio = a_class_property_that_returns_the_cnt_per_a_cnt_ratio() # ????
    def __init__(self):
        A.cnt += 1
        if self.__class__ is A:
            A.a_cnt += 1

Any ideas?

   Les





From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 22:07:40 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 02:07:40 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2D6EAAC3BBcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
>>> or quoted :
>>>
>>>>No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they
>>>>would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it
>>>>recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML
>>>>standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they
>>>>talk about W3C *recommendations*.
>>>
>>> What do you think the Internet is based on?  RFCs.
>>
>> Yup, I know. Hence no standards.
>>
>> Like I said: there is ISO HTML, and there is a w3c HTML 4.01
>> recommendation. The former is a standard, the latter is a defacto 
>> standard.
>> For some the difference does matter.
> 
> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support
> and what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both
> irrelevant. 

So how do you develop a browser? I assume you have some experience with 
programming, or is that trial and error programming? Hack until it 
works?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  4 10:25:04 2005
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:25:04 +0200
Subject: email module, redirecting to stdout
References: <mailman.1441.1128434737.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhu2vh$ivo$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <just-A2314F.16250404102005@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <dhu2vh$ivo$00$1 at news.t-online.com>,
 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> 
> > I have this code:
> > 
> >         s = smtplib.SMTP()
> >         s.set_debuglevel(1)
> >         s.connect(host=smtp_host)
> >         s.set_debuglevel(0)
> >         log("Connected, sending e-mail")
> >         sys.stdout.flush()
> >         s.sendmail(
> >             consts.EMAIL_FROMADDRESS,
> >             [to],
> >             msg.as_string()
> >         )
> >         log("E-mail sent OK")
> >         s.quit()
> > 
> > The problem is that whenever I set the debuglevel to 1, messages will go
> > to stderr. I would like them to go to stdout. Using
> > 
> > sys.stderr = sys.stdout
> > 
> > has no effect. Redirecting stderr to stdout from the shell is not an
> > option for me, because I need to use stderr for other messages.
> 
> smtplib obtains a copy of stderr by
> 
> from sys import stderr
> 
> Therefore you have to do
> 
> smtplib.stderr = sys.stdout
> 
> to get the desired effect.

Ouch. I'd consider this a bug. "from sys import stderr" should at least 
be considered bad style.

Just


From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Oct 22 18:10:02 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:10:02 GMT
Subject: Question about inheritance...
In-Reply-To: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

KraftDiner wrote:

> I have a base class called Shape
> And then classes like Circle, Square, Triangle etc, that inherit from
> Shape:
> 
> My quesiton is can a method of the Shape class call a method in Circle,
> or Square etc...?


This looks familiar. :-)

Yes, it can if it has references to them.

Could you explain a little better what you are doing.

Since I'm working on the same (or similar) thing maybe we can share our 
results, (or efforts).

Cheers,
    Ron




From tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu  Sun Oct  9 10:42:02 2005
From: tengo at DELETEMEecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 16:42:02 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20051009164202.70f4d3f5.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:44:42 GMT
Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote:

> In comp.lang.java.programmer Roedy Green
> <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote or quoted:
> 
> > Read my essay.
> > http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html

It's gone :-)


> FYI, this bit: 
> 
> ``Like ICQ, someone cannot send you mail without your prior
> permission. They can't send you mail because they don't have your
> public key to encrypt the mail.''
> 
> ...is pretty confusing - because "public key" is a term with a
> technical meaning in cryptography - and a public key really *is*
> public.
> 
> If you want to allow email only from a list of senders, then you use
> a simple white list.  Cryptography is not needed or desirable if this
> is the intended goal.

But what is desirable is the possibility to authenticate the sender of
the message as genuine, given the ease with which SMTP headers can be
spoofed. Maybe this is suggested in Mr Green's essay, but
cryptographically signed email (using the originator's _private_ key),
where the signature and hence the originator of the mail can be verified
independently, would be very useful. The problem is to get everyone to
use digital signatures, and to ensure that such a signature can be
linked to an individual or business. I've no illusions here.

Take care,

-- 
Stefaan
-- 
As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning,
and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh 


From nicksjacobson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 02:33:18 2005
From: nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (nicksjacobson at yahoo.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 23:33:18 -0700
Subject: bug in os.system?
Message-ID: <1129617198.528491.125830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The following code fails (pythonbugtest.exe takes one parameter, a
string):

import os
result = os.system('"pythonbugtest.exe" "test"')
assert(result == 0)

The error message is:

'pythonbugtest.exe" "test' is not recognized as an internal or external
command, operable program or batch file.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Nick\!My Programs\Python\bugtest\python1.py", line 8, in ?
    assert(result == 0)
AssertionError


If I remove the quote marks around "pythonbugtest.exe" or "test", it
works fine.  But sometimes I need those quote marks, if e.g. there are
spaces in filenames.

I think this is a bug?

I'm running Python 2.4.1 on Windows XP Pro.



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sun Oct 16 03:24:14 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:24:14 +0200
Subject: Some set operators
References: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4hwtl.np9wjhchw3duN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<cKg4f.14993$Pe2.304269@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1h4ipj6.z65uja1mk94z9N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Giovanni Bajo <noway at sorry.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at mail.comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > I still vaguely hope that in 3.0, where backwards incompatibilities
> > can be introduced, Python may shed some rarely used operators such as
> > these (for all types, of course).
> 
> I hope there is no serious plan to drop them. There is nothing wrong in having
> such operators, and I wouldn't flag bit operations as "rarely used". They are
> very common when calling C-based API and other stuff. I know I use them very
> often. They have a clear and well-understood meaning, as they appear identical
> in other languages, including the widely-spread C and C++.

Well, C and C++ don't have unbounded-length integers, nor built-in sets,
so the equivalence is slightly iffy; and the precedence table of
operators in Python is not identical to that in C/C++.  As for frequency
of use, that's easily measured: take a few big chunks of open-source
Python code, starting with the standard library (which does a lot of
"calling C-based API and other stuff") and widespread applications such
as mailman and spambayes, and see what gives.

But the crux of our disagreement lies with your assertion that there's
nothing wrong in having mind-boggling varieties and numbers of
operators, presumably based on the fact that C/C++ has almost as many.

I contend that having huge number of operators (and other built-ins)
goes against the grain of Python's simplicity, makes Python
substantially harder to teach, and presents no substantial advantages
when compared to the alternative of placing that functionality in a
built-in module (possibly together with other useful bit-oriented
functionality, such as counts of ones/zeros, location of first/last
one/zero bit, formatting into binary, octal and hexadecimal, etc).

As for "serious plans", it's been a while since I checked PEP 3000, but
I don't think it addresses this issue one way or another -- yet.


Alex


From Terji78 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 00:27:39 2005
From: Terji78 at gmail.com (Terji78 at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 21:27:39 -0700
Subject: Examples of Python code compared to other languages
In-Reply-To: <20051030004310.7d30b682@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
References: <20051030004310.7d30b682@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1130646459.375480.190350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

http://pleac.sourceforge.net/ probably is what you're looking for. It
shows how to to stuff from the perl cookbook in a plethora of other
languages, including Python.

Kind regards Terji Petersen



From bh at intevation.de  Fri Oct 28 09:40:02 2005
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:40:02 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87y84dix2r.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <s9zek65ep59.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>

Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> writes:

> How about iterating through the file?  You can read it line by line, two lines
> at a time.  Pseudocode follows:
>
> line1 = read_line
> while line2 = read_line:
>       line_to_check = ''.join([line1, line2])
>       check_for_desired_string
>       line1 = line2
>
> With that you always have two lines in the buffer and you can check all of
> them for your desired string, no matter what the size of the file is.

This will fail if the string to search for is e.g. "\n\n\n\n" and it
actually occcurs in the file.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From mg.mailing-list at laposte.net  Fri Oct 14 08:14:41 2005
From: mg.mailing-list at laposte.net (mg)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:14:41 +0200
Subject: Compilation of _tkinter, tcl/tk bindings
Message-ID: <434FA131.6060106@laposte.net>

Hello,

First, I installed Python on a traditionnal default linux-x86 platform 
(tk.h is located in /usr/include) and I did not meet any problem. I can 
write the following instruction without error  in my python interpreter:

./configure --prefix=/usr/local/python
make
make install
/usr/local/python/bin/python
 >>> import Tkinter
 >>>

Second, I tried to install python on IBM-Aix5.1 with tk bindings too. 
Because of tcl/tk doesn't exist on my default platform, I have installed 
tcl8.4.11 in /usr/local/tcl8.4.11. Now, I ran the compilation of Python 
and tried to import Tkinter :

./configure --prefix=/usr/local/python
make
make install
/usr/local/python/bin/python
 >>> import Tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/python/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: No module named _tkinter
 >>>

In fact, when Python is compiled, the shared library _tkinter.so should 
be compiled (Tkinter.py is just a Python script which import 
_tkinter.so) if tk is detected on the platform.

So, my questions are :
- Must I install tcl/tk in the default directories give by the 
distribution to compile python and Tkinter (_tkinter) ?
- or can I specify the tcl/tk installation to compile Python and Tkinter 
(_tkinter) ?

Regards,
Mathieu.



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 20 03:30:41 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 07:30:41 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <Xns96F5560E865D8duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
> indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
> equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.

If that is the case then you implement __eq__ and __ne__ to return 
True/False and make cmp throw an exception. I don't see any need to extend 
the cmp protocol.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 12:43:45 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:43:45 -0700
Subject: How to separate directory list and file list?
References: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1h4vpi8.uylzvq1on43zeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gonnasi <harddong at 21cn.net> wrote:

> With
> >glob.glob("*")
> 
> or
> >os.listdir(cwd)
> 
> I can get a combined file list with directory list, but I just wanna a
> bare file list, no directory list. How to get it?

I see everybody's suggesting os.path.* solutions, and they're fine, but
an interesting alternative is os.walk:

__, thedirs, thefiles = os.walk('.').next()

thefiles is the list of filenames (and thedirs is the list of directory
names), and each is sorted alphabetically.  (I'm assigning to '__' the
absolute path of the current directory, meaning I intend to ignore it).
An expression that just provides the filename list is

  os.walk('.').next()[2]

although this may be a tad too obscure to recommend it!-)


Alex


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Oct 14 12:09:56 2005
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:09:56 +0200
Subject: Problems with properties
In-Reply-To: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <20051014160956.GA15053@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>

Michael Schneider wrote:
> Could someone please point out my error, I have dents in my forehead
> for this one.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> from unittest import TestCase
> import unittest

Here you need to add:

__metaclass__ = type

this will make your classes new-style.

Gerrit.

-- 
Temperature in Lule?, Norrbotten, Sweden:
| Current temperature   05-10-14 17:59:48    7.9 degrees Celsius ( 46.3F) |
-- 
Det finns inte d?ligt v?der, bara d?liga kl?der.


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 14 23:33:12 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:33:12 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1873.1128997559.509.python-list@python.org>
	<87irw3l0qb.fsf@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <435075c8.23872336@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:15:40 -0400, Chris Smith <smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com> wrote:

>>>>>> "Sebastian" == Sebastian Bassi <sbassi at gmail.com> writes:
>
>    Sebastian> On 9/30/05, Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
>    >> after Guido's pronouncement yesterday, in one of the next
>    >> versions of Python there will be a conditional expression with
>    >> the following syntax: X if C else Y
>
>    Sebastian> I don't understand why there is a new expression, if
>    Sebastian> this could be accomplished with:
>
>    Sebastian> if C: X else: Y
>
>    Sebastian> What is the advantage with the new expression?
>
>One very frequent use case is building a string.
But what you show doesn't require choice of which to _evaluate_,
since you are merely choosing between immutable constants, and there is
no side effect or computation overhead to avoid by not evaluating
the unselected expression. So

    "the answer is " + ('no', 'yes')[X==0]

would do as well.

>Instead of:
>
>if X==0:
>   filler="yes"
>else:
>   filler="no"
>return "the answer is %s" % filler
>
>
>What I really want to do is take four lines of conditional, and put
>them into one, as well as blow off dealing with a 'filler' variable:
>
>return "the answer is " + "yes" if X==0 else "no"
As has been pointed out, though legal there is some doubt as to whether
you meant what you wrote ;-)
>
>
>Or whatever the final release syntax is.
>Conditional expressions are a nice way to shim something in place, on
>an acute basis.  Chronic use of them could lead to a full-on plate of
>spaghetti, where you really wanted code.
>They can be impenitrable.  Whenever I'm dealing with them in C/C++, I
>always line the ?, the :, and the ; characters vertically, which may
>seem a bit excessive in terms of whitespace, but provides a nice
>hieroglyph over on the right side of the screen, to make things
>obvious.
>Best,
>Chris

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Wed Oct 19 12:12:28 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:12:28 -0400
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
Message-ID: <4356703e$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hi

I am using binascii.b2a_hex to convert some binary data to hex. The result
is a two bit hex representation (i. e., without the leading 0x). How do I
convert the resulting two bit representation into an integer ?

Thanks.


From christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk  Wed Oct 26 14:41:38 2005
From: christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (c d saunter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:41:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Jpg
References: <1130349223.948333.83230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djoil2$p75$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>

Tuvas (tuvas21 at gmail.com) wrote:
: I am building a GUI interface at the moment, and would like to have
: support for displaying a jpg file, and a FITS file if possible. Is
: there any way to do this? My interface has been written in Tkinter at
: the moment, especially because of it's great portability, I wouldn't
: have to install the other interface software on every computer that I
: use (At the moment it is 3, and will signifigantly increase). I'd
: prefer to only use built-in functions, but if it can't be done, I'm
: willing to look for something else. Is there any way I can do this?
: Thanks!

Plenty of ways to do it, although I'm not familiar with TKInter so I'll
leave that part to someone else.
 
You might find pCFITSIO usefull reading the FITS files though.
http://panoramix.stsci.edu/~npirzkal/python/pcfitsio/
You would then use some python code or the PIL module to convert the FITS
data in a suitable format for TKInter.
---

cds


From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 22 19:17:20 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:17:20 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...

> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:47:27 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

>>> That's basic economics. Something which can be allowed or ignored or 
>>> even
>>> encouraged when done by small businesses in a competitive market can
>>> easily become harmful and bad for the economy when done by a monopolist 
>>> or
>>> duopolist in an uncompetitive market.

>>     Microsoft goal is and should be their own success, not the success of
>> the economy or the market in general.

> Neither I, nor you, nor the government of any nation, should care a
> monkey's toss specifically for Microsoft's success. Microsoft is one
> special interest, out of a potentially unbounded number of possible
> players in the economy of a country and the world.

    No, not at all. It is the gravest act of self-contradiction to maintain 
that one should be allowed to pursue one's own interest while denying that 
same right to others.

> Unless you or I are specifically shareholders in Microsoft, we should not
> care about their specific success; and the government should be entirely
> agnostic about who are the winners and losers in an economy.

    We should certainly care that Microsoft be allowed to pursue their own 
success. The government should be agnostic about who the winners and losers 
are, but must respect each entity's right to attempt to be that winner.

> The
> government's role should be to ensure a level playing field, and minimum
> levels of health, safety and environmental standards. There is no place
> for government giving special-interests like Microsoft favours.

    The problem is, people complain when the playing field is in fact level. 
For example, Microsoft's "exclusionary" Windows agreements didn't ask for 
more than Windows was worth (or nobody would have agreed to them). Yet they 
are considered examples of the playing field not being level.

> Society regulates where and how we park our cars: for instance, none of us
> are allowed to park our car in the middle of busy road. and if we try, our
> car is likely to be impounded. This is not because there is anything in
> and of itself *wrong* with parking at such-and-such a place, but because
> of the effect it has on others.

    Umm, no. It's because the government owns the roads and operates them 
for the benefit of all. This analogy applies *only* to government property.

> A sensible government cares for smooth
> flowing traffic on the roads, with the minimum of delays and the maximum
> flow practical.

    You could replace "government" with "road owner" and the analogy would 
then be correct. Governments don't give a damn if traffic flows smoothly on 
private roads.

> Perhaps Walmart or Safeway might find it convenient to
> park their trucks on public roads for any number of reasons. Too bad for
> them: the benefit to them does not outweigh the loss to everyone else,
> even if they don't specifically block access to their competitors.

    And this is what any road owner would do.

> Microsoft's behaviour over-all has been just as anti-social,
> anti-competitive and harmful to the over-all running of the economy as a
> hypothetical Walmart or Safeway that regularly parked their trucks in the
> middle of the main road for a few hours while they unloaded.

    The problem is, the government does not own the economy. So it does not 
get to manage it the way it gets to manage the roads it in fact owns.

> Maybe, just maybe, if Mom & Pop's Corner Store tried it once or twice, we
> could afford to turn a blind eye, especially if the disruption caused by
> towing their delivery van was greater than the disruption caused by their
> double-parking. Thousands of people break the law by double-parking for a
> few minutes, and society doesn't collapse. But something that we can
> afford to ignore when done by M&P's Corner Store becomes a serious problem
> if done by somebody with the economic power of Walmart, with their
> thousands of deliveries by 18-wheelers every day across the country.

    Again, the analogy fails. You are comparing the government's right to 
manage its own property with the government's "right" to interfere with 
other people's right to manage their property.

>> Microsoft's status of a "monopolist"
>> is only meaningful if you define the market as "desktop operating systems
>> for 32-bit x86 computers".

> That is *precisely* the market we're talking about. Not "any item that
> runs off electricity", not "orange juice", not "pork bellies", not "all
> computing devices", but desktop PCs. What did you think the Justice
> Department's investigation was about? Motor vehicles?

    I thought it was about operating systems, actually. And I thought that 
both OSX and Linux competed with it.

>> There is no way Microsoft could have expected the
>> market to be defined in this way and no way to argue that Microsoft had 
>> any
>> reason to believe their conduct was illegal.

> Microsoft have lawyers. Microsoft destroyed emails and at least one senior
> manager perjured himself in court. Microsoft created a fake video
> demonstration which they then gave as evidence. Do you really believe that
> Microsoft's executives are so incompetent that they don't get legal advice
> before writing up contracts? Or that nobody in authority at Microsoft
> realised that destroying evidence and lying to a judge are crimes?

    When a criminal willing to use force points a gun at your head, you lie 
to him.

> In any case, even if you are right that Microsoft had no ideas... so what?
> Ignorance of the law never has been an excuse for criminal behaviour. It
> has always been every individual's responsibility to make sure that they
> do not act illegally, and that goes for companies as well.

    I am not saying Microsoft did not know the law. I am saying that no 
rational person could have expected the law to be applied to Microsoft that 
way it was. The law *must* put a person on notice of precisely what conduct 
it prohibits. However, in this case, the law's applicability was conditioned 
on an abritrary and irrational choice of what the relevant market was.

    DS




From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Thu Oct 13 20:03:28 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:03:28 -0000
Subject: matching elements of numeric arrays
References: <1129239096.340248.222440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3r83udFid3bdU1@individual.net>

<daniel.neilson at gmail.com> wrote in
news:1129239096.340248.222440 at g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I have two one-dimensional Numeric arrays, and I need to know the
> indices in the second array of elements from the first.
>
> so if i had:
>
> a=array([2,4,6])
> b=array([2,3,4,5,6])
>
> i want a function match that does this:
>
> >>> match(a,b)
> array([0,2,4])
>
> i have something that works, but it involves converting things to lists
> and using 'in', and it is rather slow. if someone could point me to a
> better solution, i would appreciate it.

I have no idea about Numeric array module, so I will use
the built-in Python one for it (how about the speed if
compared to Numeric arrays?):

from array import array
a = array('I', [2,4,6])
b = array('I', [2,3,4,5,6])

def match(a,b):
  retVal = array('I')
  for item in a:
    retVal.append(b.index(item))
  return retVal

print a
print b
print str(match(a,b))

Outputs:

array('I', [2L, 4L, 6L])
array('I', [2L, 3L, 4L, 5L, 6L])
array('I', [0L, 2L, 4L])

Claudio




From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 11 02:58:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 02:58:03 -0400
Subject: Batteries Included?
References: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86achgzgjo.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Alex" <lidenalex at yahoo.se> writes:

> One of the first things I wanted to do when I start learning Python was
> to produce a simple standalone application that I could distribute to
> my users (windows users). Python's moto is "Batteries Included", but
> where are the batteries for making exe files and making an installer
> file? I had to download, install and use py2exe and Inno Setup in order
> to accomplish this. I might be wrong expecting that a language whose
> moto is "Batteries Included" would be able to produce exe files. Are
> there plans to do this in the future version of Python?

Did you try looking through the distutils docs? After you create a
setup.py file for you program, doing

         "python setup.py bdist --formats=wininst"

should do the trick.

Of course, I don't own a Windows box, so I can't check it, but when I
ask a setup file for help on formats, it tells me the wininst format
is a windows installer.

Personally, I think of building a platform-specific bundle for
distribution to end users as more along the lines of shipping than
batteries. Python comes with lots of tools to help you get your
application working - the batteries. Once it's working, you don't need
batteries: you need wrapping paper, and a box, and tape, and so on.

           <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From greymaus at cableone.net  Sun Oct 16 13:27:44 2005
From: greymaus at cableone.net (Greymaus)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:27:44 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <slrndl3vuq.481.tim@vegeta.saiyix>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11l369039d6ppe0@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrndl3vuq.481.tim@vegeta.saiyix>
Message-ID: <11l53696mb7s073@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Hammerquist wrote:

> 
> I loved my little CoCo!  I had the original CoCo, upgraded with
> the 5 1/4" floppy drive, and later upgraded the whole system to
> CoCo 3 with OS9.
> 
I put the piggyback RAM board in, which gave me, I think, 1 Meg of RAM. 
I also found that the whole system ran faster and better (especially 
under OS9) with two floppy drives.

Programmed that puppy in OS9BASIC and 6809 Assembler...Much preferred 
the Assembler.  A lot less confusing than Microsoft's assembler!  But I 
had to shift over to PCs when I figured out that Tandy wasn't supporting 
the CoCo system. They took the  40-connector extension boards out of 
their inventory and that killed the market right there.  Another raid 
from Microsoft?



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Oct 16 00:19:17 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:19:17 -0500
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
In-Reply-To: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <17233.54469.296474.998863@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Madhusudan> Is it possible to convert a very long list of strings to a
    Madhusudan> list of floats in a single statement ?

    Madhusudan> I have tried float(x) and float(x[:]) but neither work. I
    Madhusudan> guess I would have to write a loop if there isn't a way.

Try:

    >>> los = ["123.0", "2", "1e-6"]
    >>> map(float, los)
    [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]
    >>> [float(s) for s in los]
    [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]

Skip


From deets at web.de  Fri Oct  7 10:26:52 2005
From: deets at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 07:26:52 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7x3bndbg7v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128687719.783871.50090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<7x7jcpzeyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128689163.357942.107850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3bndbg7v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128695212.510656.310880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> How about Lisp?  It seems to do some good there, without getting in
> the way.

I don't know much about lisp. But the thing is that one of the most
important data structures in python (and basically the only one in
LISP), lists, are a big problem to type-checking if they aren't
homogenous. So I guess one can write a compiler that generates
specialized code for lists of a certain homogenous kind, like lists of
int, float and maybe string - and as long as you ensure that code is
called with such a list, you're ok. But I think that is what psyco
does, too (no idea how these two compare)

Basically, all type-inferencing boils down to collecting constraints on
variable values. Like in this expression

z  = x + y

It will be internall represented by this:

z:C = x:A + y:B

which introduces type-variables A,Band C. That tells us that all
operations __plus__ and their respective types could be meant, thus A B
C are constrained by these types. Which, in an overloading-allowing
language, can get pretty much. The trick is to find a  solution for the
variables that satisfy all the constraints. And a solution are actual
types, not ad-hoc sets of types - otherwise, you can't create any
specialized code, and the compiler will puke on you.

Saying

z += 10

now creates a constraint that binds C to int, and subsequently A and B.

Now the problem is someting like this:

if x is None:
   x = 10
else:
   x = x * 10

Lets assume A as type-var for x. Then we have the two contstraints A ->
int and A -> None. Now - is there a type that satisfies both
constraints? No.  And even worse, A shall be int by x = 10 - but that
collides with A->None. So the only thing you can do is resort to A=ANY
- and interpret that code above :)

Diez



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 19 04:47:42 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:47:42 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de>
	<slrndlbr29.146.i3x9mdw@b29x3m.invalid>
Message-ID: <6u1cl1dvqaac21klrqsoumsoh0ugrbom9e@4ax.com>

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:10:55 GMT, Alan Connor <i3x9mdw at j9n35c.invalid>
wrote or quoted :

>To all the shit-for-brains trolls that are polluting these groups
>with this crap, which I haven't even bothered to read:

A single thread does not pollute a group. It is trivially easy to
ignore a thread.  If your newsreader does not support that feature,
try an different newsreader.  See
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/newsgroups.html

It is a big thread. Obviously people are interested in it even if you
are not.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 19 19:52:37 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:52:37 GMT
Subject: multi-property groups?
In-Reply-To: <D%x5f.24374$ae.595@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <D%x5f.24374$ae.595@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9%A5f.200365$p_1.19615@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>


This is what I like about Python, there's almost always a way to do it.  ;-)

Here's an updated version that I think works, but it could use some review.

Any way to make this better?   Should grouped properties share 
references to objects?

Cheers,
    Ron


"""
Grouped properties:

This need presented it self while programming Tkinter applications where 
a lot of keywords are used, but I think it would also be good for 
general interface building. The external view is of a single object, 
while the internal mechanism keeps the attributes groups so they can be 
forwarded easily as **kwds.

     class foo(object):
         def __init__(self):
             self.__setprops__(name, item_1, item_2, ... item_n)
             name.__doc__ = 'this is the name group of properties'
             def getter():
                 ...
             def setter():
                 ...
             def remover():
                 ...
             name.__getitem__ = getter
             name.__setitem__ = setter
             name.__delitem__ = remover


The following is as close to getting to as I am able I think.
Only somewhat tested... but it seems to work.
"""


class Pdict(dict):
     # we need this so we can override the methods.
     __doc__ = "a property dictionary"

class Pobject(object):
     """ an object with grouped properties """
     __properties__ = {}
     def __setprops__(self, *args):
         """
         Create a group property
            __setprops__(name, p1, p2, p3, ... pn)

         * all arguments are strings to be made into names.
         """
         dct = Pdict()
         for i in args[1:]:
             dct.setdefault(i,None)
         self.__properties__[args[0]] = dct
         self.__dict__[args[0]] = dct
     def __getattr__(self, name):
         for dct in self.__properties__:
             if name in self.__properties__[dct]:
                 return self.__properties__[dct].__getitem__(name)
         return self.__dict__[name]
     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
         for dct in self.__properties__:
             if name in self.__properties__[dct]:
                 self.__properties__[dct].__setitem__(name,value)
                 return
         self.__dict__[name] = value



## A simple example to test it. ##

class shapes(Pobject):
     def __init__(self):

         # init the A properties
         self.__setprops__('A', 'square', 'triangle', 'cube', 'circle')
         self.A.__doc__ = 'These are the "A" properties'
         def A_getter(name):
             return -self.A[name]     # just to show it will
         self.A.__getitem__ = A_getter

         # init the B properties
         self.__setprops__('B', 'red', 'blue', 'green', 'orange')
         self.B.__doc__ = 'These are the "B" properties'

     def show(self, it):
         if it == 'shapes':
            self.pprint(self.A)  # pass properties as groups!
         elif it == 'colors':
            self.pprint(self.B)  # have several property groups!
         else:
            print "I have no %s.\n" % it

     def pprint(self, obj):
         print obj.__doc__
         for item in obj.keys():
             print '  %s = %r'  % (item,obj[item])
         print

box = shapes()

# Set items; no need to now what group
# they are in.
box.cube = 6
box.square = 4
box.triangle = 3
box.circle = 0

# Update a whole group at once with the group name.
box.B.update(blue='blue', green='green', red='rose', orange='orange')
box.red = 'red'

# Get items
print box.square
print box.blue
print box.green

# Show the groups.
box.show('shapes')
box.show('colors')
box.show('flowers')



## outputs ##

-4
blue
green
These are the "A" properties
   cube = 6
   square = 4
   triangle = 3
   circle = 0

These are the "B" properties
   blue = 'blue'
   green = 'green'
   orange = 'orange'
   red = 'red'

I have no flowers.

## end ##



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 15:31:19 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:31:19 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com><R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com><ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com><4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net><1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews><slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com><slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><6xO0f.166857$p_1.72982@tornado.tampabay.rr.com><4344c53e.3325034196@news.oz.net>
	<EJe1f.534$ae.439@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <di3u27$ufm$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ron Adam wrote:

> Is there a way to conditionally decorate?  For example if __debug__ is
> True, but not if it's False?  I think I've asked this question before. (?)

the decorator is a callable, so you can simply do, say

    from somewhere import debugdecorator

    if not __debug__:
        debugdecorator = lambda x: x

or

    def debugdecorator(func):
        if __debug__:
            ...
        else:
            return func

etc.

</F> 





From nephish at xit.net  Thu Oct 27 22:06:57 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 19:06:57 -0700
Subject: how do i run another script from my python script
In-Reply-To: <86fyqmix52.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<djr33t$aeo$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<86fyqmix52.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1130465217.891307.177370@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

well i know i dont want to do another thread, my program has six
running all the time.
whew. that can get nuts.
i mean, this will come to me easier later i am sure. But right now.....
simple is best.
thanks for all the suggestions, gents.
right now i am just doing a varient of Steves suggestion, and so far,
its working.

thanks again,
sk



From anil.pundoor at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 03:24:59 2005
From: anil.pundoor at gmail.com (anil.pundoor at gmail.com)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 00:24:59 -0700
Subject: Bwidget for tkinter
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1359.1128320108.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128318804.997697.127310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1359.1128320108.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128324299.671382.146480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

thanks u man. i am new to tk inter. i tried installing the lib. but
while running the demo script am getting following error.

python sam.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "sam.py", line 1, in ?
    import bwidget, Tkinter, sys, os
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 149, in ?
    class _Frame:
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 152, in _Frame
    getframe = makeswidget(getframe, Tkinter.Frame)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 74, in makeswidget
    return _wrap(w, f)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/bwidget/__init__.py",
line 59, in _wrap
    oldfunc.func_name, wrapper.func_defaults, wrapper.func_closure)
TypeError: function() takes at most 4 arguments (5 given)


can u plz help me



From simonroses at granisla.com  Mon Oct 31 13:46:25 2005
From: simonroses at granisla.com (Simon Roses Femerling)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:46:25 +0100
Subject: Python Linked list?
Message-ID: <001f01c5de4b$65e18880$0201a8c0@LOKI>

Hi there!

I'm looking for a linked list class or lib ? Any suggestions ?

Is for a project I'm working on.

Sincerely,

Simon Roses Femerling
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From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Oct  2 08:37:13 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 05:37:13 -0700
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <1128255017.708134.49380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<1128249650.166566.81790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1343.1128252067.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128255017.708134.49380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128256633.686293.181220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

It doesn't work yet, to me...

bearophile



From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 23:51:18 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 20:51:18 -0700
Subject: A problem while using urllib
In-Reply-To: <1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
References: <1129024641.113182.74420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h49slu.1gaj0nnmdk5ghN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1129089078.852454.153800@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:
> Johnny Lee <johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> >    try:
> >       webPage = urllib2.urlopen(url)
> >    except urllib2.URLError:
>    ...
> >    webPage.close()
> >    return True
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> >
> >    But every time when I ran to the 70 to 75 urls (that means 70-75
> > urls have been tested via this way), the program will crash and all the
> > urls left will raise urllib2.URLError until the program exits. I tried
> > many ways to work it out, using urllib, set a sleep(1) in the filter (I
> > thought it was the massive urls crashed the program). But none works.
> > BTW, if I set the url from which the program crashed to base url, the
> > program will still crashed at the 70-75 url. How can I solve this
> > problem? thanks for your help
>
> Sure looks like a resource leak somewhere (probably leaving a file open
> until your program hits some wall of maximum simultaneously open files),
> but I can't reproduce it here (MacOSX, tried both Python 2.3.5 and
> 2.4.1).  What version of Python are you using, and on what platform?
> Maybe a simple Python upgrade might fix your problem...
>
>
> Alex

Thanks for the info you provided. I'm using 2.4.1 on cygwin of WinXP.
If you want to reproduce the problem, I can send the source to you.

This morning I found that this is caused by urllib2. When I use urllib
instead of urllib2, it won't crash any more. But the matters is that I
want to catch the HTTP 404 Error which is handled by FancyURLopener in
urllib.open(). So I can't catch it.

Regards,
Johnny



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 18:13:14 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:13:14 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>
	<86zmox2vj1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<MPG.1dc87519d9d81ba198a5cc@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <86d5lt2qkl.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Not Bill Gates <nbg at nbg.invalid> writes:

> mwm at mired.org wrote...
>> Not Bill Gates <nbg at nbg.invalid> writes:
>> > steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au wrote...
>> >> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:
>> >> > Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  
>> >> You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
>> >> the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?
>> > You need to first prove innovation in desktop software has been 
>> > crippled, don't you?
>> 
>> MS took desktop software through pretty much the same sequence of
>> offerings that the mainframe and minicomputer software industry had
>> been throgh: flat file systems and single-tasking OS's in a command
>> line environment, adding nested file systems, adding TSRs, adding a
>> windowing environment, adding true multitasking and finally
>> multiprocessor systems. This took them what - 20+ years?
>
> <shrug>  Being pissed off about how things could have been done 
> better is a losing proposition.

I'm not pissed off about it - I've got better things to do. You asked
for prove that desktop software development was crippled by MS. I
provided it.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 12 12:12:41 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:12:41 +0100
Subject: Listen for directory events
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D2265@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

[Bell, Kevin]

| Anyone have any advice on listening for directory events?  

Would this be of any use?

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/win32_how_do_i/watch_directory_for_changes.html

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From nephish at xit.net  Fri Oct 21 12:34:45 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 09:34:45 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

ok, i tried something similar to what you posted.
a little simpler though.
i am running a query on a database and making a list of time, value
pairs
kinda like this
plot_points = ([time, value], [time, value], [time, value])
gnuplot complains that it needs a float for one of the values.
i can plot just the value, and it shows up ( no x value found)

how should i proceed?



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 01:30:00 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:30:00 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
In-Reply-To: <devbk1l6ql5ml0t24mbr5ubba0m01gsdn2@4ax.com>
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<devbk1l6ql5ml0t24mbr5ubba0m01gsdn2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <di514r$kr7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:12:22 +0200, Nicolas Pernetty
> <nicopernetty at nowhere.fr> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
>>I'm aware of SimPy for discrete event simulation, but I haven't found
>>any work about continuous system.
>>I would like to develop a generic continous system simulator, and so
>>would be eager to join any open source effort on the subject.
>>
>>For instance, it would be useful for modelling an airplane with all the
>>dynamics (flight simulator).
>
> 	Unless that flight simulator is running on some big ugly ANALOG
> computer (the ones that used rheostats, transformers, and amplifiers),
> they all are really using discrete time intervals and computing values
> at those time points. Such computation may require integration of
> continuous functions from previous time step to current time step.

I think Nicolas means "(discrete event) simulation" as opposed to
"discrete (event simulation)" and "(continuous system) simulation" as
opposed to "continuous (system simulation)". The methods used in SimPy
to model (discrete events) don't apply terribly well to simulating many
(continuous systems) like airplane dynamics. For example, an ODE
integrator would probably want to adaptively select its timesteps as
opposed to laying out a uniform discretization upfront.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From mline at abilitec.com  Fri Oct 21 04:09:42 2005
From: mline at abilitec.com (Mark Line)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:09:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Searching for txt file and importing to ms access
References: <dj8f1r$do7$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
	<86br1kunnd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <dja7o6$fc$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Once i have this working i was planing to kept all the txt files as logs, 
i'd have to give them a real name and stuff.

But thanks for you help so far

Mark


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86br1kunnd.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> "Mark Line" <mline at abilitec.com> writes:
>> I'm managed to get some code to download a message from the email account
>> and save it to a text file, does any one have a link to some sample code 
>> to
>> search though a file until a string of characters is matched?  Or could
>> point me to some functions that may help me with this?
>
> datafile = open("c:\\myfile.txt", "r")
> data = datafile.read()
> datafile.close()
> start = data.index(myindicator)
>
> will leave start as the index in data where the the string in
> myindicator first appears. If you want the end of myendicator, use
> start = data.find(myindicator) + len(myindicator).
>
> Have you considered not saving the message to disk? You can manipulate
> it all in memory.
>
>> I've also managed to connect to my access database, and just print out a
>> field in a table, but I cant find anywhere on the web that will help me 
>> to
>> import data?  Any help would be great?!
>
> Can't help with that. The phrase "win32com" comes to mind, but I'm not
> a windows person.
>
>  <mike
> -- 
> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
> Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more 
> information. 




From kylotan at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 05:15:01 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 02:15:01 -0700
Subject: Pygame: Filling the screen with tile images
In-Reply-To: <1128464827.774164.164720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128464827.774164.164720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128503701.255999.149180@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I don't think PyGame will handle tiling for you, or any concept of a
'background image'. If you want something to appear multiple times on
the screen, you need to draw it multiple times. If you do that onto a
surface that is the same size as your screen, you can then consider
that the background image and blit that to the screen at the start of
every frame you draw.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From thomasbartkus at comcast.net  Thu Oct  6 09:13:05 2005
From: thomasbartkus at comcast.net (Thomas Bartkus)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:13:05 -0500
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>	<mailman.1514.1128510905.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128511466.880413.158140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><IqGdnd3VLLXXqdneRVn-qw@telcove.net>
	<mailman.1588.1128583570.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aZCdnWIyNPtHv9jeRVn-jw@telcove.net>

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1588.1128583570.509.python-list at python.org...
> >
> If you don't understand parameterized SQL queries you would do well to
> refrain from offering database advice :-)

Did the poster ask a question about parameterized queries or server
security?

> Presumably you always check whether StrToConcatenateIntoSqlStatement
> contains no apostrophes before you actually construct the SQL?
>
> Can we say "SQL injection exploit"?

Not every query passes along public internet wires and all the guy asked for
was how to insert a Null.

But - I really do appreciate your concern :-)
Thomas Bartkus





From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 27 22:35:42 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 03:35:42 +0100
Subject: Distutils patch for MS toolkit use
Message-ID: <djs2pt$knc$1@sea.gmane.org>

I've just realised that my 2.4.1 upgrade removed the patch I made to 
distutils to use the Microsoft free toolchain.

unfortunately www.vrplumber.com appears to be down. Does anyone reading 
this have the details?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From robbyd at u20.org  Fri Oct 21 16:13:09 2005
From: robbyd at u20.org (Robby Dermody)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:13:09 -0400
Subject: python gc performance in large apps
Message-ID: <43594BD5.7050104@u20.org>


Hey guys (thus begins a book of a post :),

I'm in the process of writing a commercial VoIP call monitoring and 
recording application suite in python and pyrex. Basically, this 
software sits in a VoIP callcenter-type environment (complete with agent 
phones and VoIP servers), sniffs voice data off of the network, and 
allows users to listen into calls. It can record calls as well. The 
project is about a year and 3 months in the making and lately the 
codebase has stabilized enough to where it can be used by some of our 
clients. The entire project has about 37,000 lines of python and pyrex 
code (along with 1-2K lines of unrelated java code).

Now, some disjointed rambling about the architecture of this software. 
This software has two long-running server-type components. One 
component, the "director" application, is written in pure python and 
makes use of the twisted, nevow, and kinterbasdb libraries (which I 
realize link to some C extensions). The other component, the 
"harvester", is a mixture of python and pyrex, and makes use of the 
twisted library, along with using the C libs libpcap and glib on the 
pyrex end. Basically, the director is the "master" component. A single 
director process interacts with users of the system through a web and/or 
pygtk client application interface and can coordinate 1 to n harvesters 
spread about the world. The harvester is the "heavy lifter" component 
that sniffs the network traffic and sifts out the voice and signalling 
data. It then updates the director of call status changes, and can 
provide users of the system access to the data. It records the data to 
disk as well. The scalibility of this thing is really cool: given a 
single director sitting somewhere coordinating the list of agents, 
multiple harvester can be placed anywhere there is voice traffic. A user 
that logs into the director can end up seeing the activity of all of 
these seperate voice networks presented like a single giant mesh.

Overall, I have been very pleased with python and the 3rd party 
libraries that I use (twisted, nevow, kinterbasdb and pygtk). It is a 
joy to program with, and I think the python community has done a fine 
job. However, as I have been running the software lately and profiling 
its memory usage, the one and only Big Problem I have seen is that of 
the memory usage. Ideally, the server application(s) should be able to 
run indefinitely, but from the results I'm seeing I will end up 
exhausting the memory on a 2 GB machine in 2 to 3 days of heavy load.

Now normally I would not raise up an issue like this on this list, but 
based on the conversations held on this list lately, and the work done 
by Evan Jones (http://evanjones.ca/python-memory.html), I am led to 
believe that this memory usage -- while partially due to some probably 
leaks in my program -- is largely due to the current python gc. I have 
some graphs I made to show the extent of this memory usage growth:

http://public.robbyd.fastmail.fm/iq-graph1.gif

http://public.robbyd.fastmail.fm/iq-graph-director-rss.gif

http://public.robbyd.fastmail.fm/iq-graph-harv-rss.gif

The preceding three diagrams are the result of running the 1 director 
process and 1 harvester process on the same machine for about 48 hours. 
This is the most basic configuration of this software. I was running 
this application through /usr/bin/python (CPython) on a Debian 'testing' 
box running Linux 2.4 with 2GB of memory and Python version 2.3.5. 
During that time, I gathered the resident and virtual memory size of 
each component at 120 second intervals. I then imported this data into 
MINITAB and did some plots. The first one is a graph of the resident 
(RSS) and virtual memory usage of the two applications. The second one 
is a zoomed in graph of the director's resident memory usage (complete 
with a best fit quadratic), and the 3rd one is a zoomed in graph of the 
harvester's resident memory usage.

To give you an idea of the network load these apps were undergoing 
during this sampling time, by the time 48 hours had passed, the 
harvester had gathered and parsed about 900 million packets. During the 
day there will be 50-70 agents talking. This number goes to 10-30 at night.

In the diagrams above, one can see the night-day separation clearly. At 
night, the memory usage growth seemed to all but stop, but with the 
increased call volume of the day, it started shooting off again. When I 
first started gathering this data, I was hoping for a logarithmic curve, 
but at least after 48 hours, it looks like the usage increase is almost 
linear. (Although logarithmic may still be the case after it exceeds a 
gig or two of used memory. :) I'm not sure if this is something that I 
should expect from the current gc, and when it would stop.

Now, as I stated above, I am certain that at least some of this 
increased memory usage is due to either un-collectable objects in the 
python code, or memory leaks in the pyrex code (where I make some use of 
malloc/free). I am working on finding and removing these issues, but 
from what I've seen  with the help of gc UNCOLLECTABLE traces, there are 
not many un-collectable reference issues at least. Yes, there are some 
but definitely not enough to justify growth like I am seeing. The pyrex 
side should not be leaking too much, I'm very good about freeing what I 
allocate in pyrex/C land. I will be running that linked to a memory leak 
finding library in the next few days. Past the code reviews I've done, 
what makes me think that I don't have any *wild* leaks going on at least 
with the pyrex code is that I am seeing the same type of growth patterns 
in both apps, and I don't use any pyrex with the director. Yes, the 
harvester is consuming much more memory, but it also does the majority 
of the heavy lifting.

I am alright with the app not freeing all the memory it can between high 
and low activity times, but what puzzles me is how the memory usage just 
keeps on growing and growing. Will it ever stop?

What I would like to know if others on this list have had similar 
problems with python's gc in long running, larger python applications. 
Am I crazy or is this a real problem with python's gc itself? If it's a 
python gc issue, then it's my opinion that we will need to enhance the 
gc before python can really gain leverage as a language suitable for 
"enterprise-class" applications. I have surprised many other programmers 
that I'm writing an application like this in python/pyrex that works 
just as well and even more efficiently than the C/C++/Java competitors. 
The only thing I have left to show is that the app lasts as long between 
restarts. ;)


Robby


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct 22 02:28:39 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:28:39 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:47:27 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

> There is no way Microsoft could have expected the 
>market to be defined in this way and no way to argue that Microsoft had any 
>reason to believe their conduct was illegal.

If what they did to me in the 90s was not illegal it damn well should
have been.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From maksim.kasimov at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 03:18:22 2005
From: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com (Maksim Kasimov)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:18:22 +0300
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
In-Reply-To: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diidbt$7e$1@news.tsua.net>

black wrote:
> hi all~
> 
> in my .py file there are a few print to trace out some message and i
> wonder if we can save it into a specified file when that script get
> running. if so, i may just check that file to c how the script is
> running. can anyone show me a right direction ?
> 
> one million tks~
> 

script.py >> script.log 2>&1

-- 
Best regards,
Maksim Kasimov
mailto: maksim.kasimov at gmail.com


From xah at xahlee.org  Thu Oct 20 16:25:34 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 13:25:34 -0700
Subject: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs
In-Reply-To: <dj69jg$t3u$1@news.island.liu.se>
References: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<dj686s$srf$1@news.island.liu.se> <dj69jg$t3u$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <1129839934.602876.141270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Thomas Bellman wrote:
>    try:
>	os.makedirs("/tmp/trh/spam/norwegian/blue/parrot/cheese")
>    except os.error, e:
>	if e.errno != errno.EEXIST:
>	    raise

This is what i want. Thanks.

(the doc needs quite some improvement...)

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From erniedude at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 17:45:37 2005
From: erniedude at gmail.com (Ernesto)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 14:45:37 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
Message-ID: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

What's the easiest and quickest way to execute a compiled C "command
line interface" program THROUGH Python?



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Oct  1 06:24:35 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 01 Oct 2005 10:24:35 +0000
Subject: PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <0qh%e.20023$Ix4.15230@okepread03>
	<mailman.1309.1128130211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128146343.001242.66990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8764shzg9o.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> Guido could have decided two years ago, sparing us the PEP 308 ordalia.
> So, I am happy that at the end we will have a conditional operator, but
> I am not happy of how the process worked out. It was just an enormous
> waste of resources that could have been employed much better :-(

Seems that's what Guido thinks too:


http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-September/056561.html

| If there's one thing I've learned from the PEP 308 vote, it is that
| votes for language don't work. I prefer some discussion on Python-dev
| after which I pick one.

I think he said at the time that it was an experiment.


John



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 18 12:18:23 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:18:23 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<11kj8ghonmialfc@corp.supernews.com>
	<o43rk198ujcqtvccet1blsmfte71vd0gt6@4ax.com>
	<op.syj5sdgy43pcxb@jukebox.roscopeco> <IoJq7n.G9z@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <86irvuyf1s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:
> In comp.lang.java.programmer Ross Bamford <rosco at roscopeco.remove.co.uk> wrote or quoted:
> About all email has going for it these days is an open format and a
> large existing user base.

Yeah, and all that Windows has going for it is being on 9X% of the
desktops. Nothing really important at all.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr  Mon Oct 17 03:56:09 2005
From: c.peres2 at wanadoo.fr (Peres)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:56:09 +0200
Subject: graphic memory & animation
Message-ID: <009d01c5d2f0$3c634590$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>

Thanks a lot for your answer, Fredrik,
Slow means more than 20ms to erase the screen. After double buffering it improved a lot , of course (16 ms) but I'll need a faster speed.
I program 2D animated sequences on a PC. Do you think OpenGL is the correct direction to take? If so is it easy to interface with Python (it seems PyOpenGL is not freeware...)

Thanks again for your kind help

Valerie Peres
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From jhu at metrigenix.com  Thu Oct 20 16:26:35 2005
From: jhu at metrigenix.com (James Hu)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:26:35 -0400
Subject: create user message for wxPython 
Message-ID: <90DEA7ED93F71A4580CEDF76A02682EA03ACC4@torexch.metrigenix.com>

Hi,

There are 2 wxPython application, A and B and need to exchange msg.
Sending WM_CLOSE, wxEVT_MOUSEWHEEL to B is OK, and sending user message
like 1225 from A to B is also OK. 

But B didn't catch this message, note, B is running before A sends msg
and can receive "WM_CLOSE". 

Do I have to make my own msg loop by using win32api, win32gui? I used
win32gui to post Message to other windows.

Using wx.Frame:

wx.EVT_START_MSG= 1225
EVT_START_MSG_EVENT= wx.PyEventBinder(wx.EVT_START_MSG, 0)


EVT_START_MSG_EVENT(self, self.OnStart)
Or 
Self.Bind(EVT_START_MSG_EVENT,self.OnStart)

def OnStart(self, event):
      print 'got start message'

Thanks a lot in advance!

James


From david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de  Sun Oct  2 15:34:51 2005
From: david.murmann at rwth-aachen.de (David Murmann)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:34:51 +0200
Subject: Statement orders
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1353.1128280082.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128236799.839645.101270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1338.1128238804.509.python-list@python.org>	<3qanooFdu6okU1@news.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.1353.1128280082.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3qaqvpFe1bjcU1@news.dfncis.de>

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:
> Here's one case where it's bad to call update.
> 
> 	def perform_longrunning_calculation():
> 		time.sleep(1)
> 		app.update()
> 		time.sleep(1)
> 

would it be advisable to guard against this with something like this?

def perform_longrunning_calculation():
     if not app.busy:
         app.busy = 1
         time.sleep(1)
         app.update()
         time.sleep(1)
         app.busy = 0

or does this have flaws i'm not seeing?

David.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 10:54:56 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:54:56 -0700
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<nlkrl1tacuqf6kde90ditaptjnfdj2hstu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1h4z9gc.1orudh21d9y4lsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> "PyPK" <superprad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >What possible tricky areas/questions could be asked in Python based
> >Technical Interviews?
> 
> What's the point of asking "tricky" questions?  Aren't you really more
> interested in what applications they have worked on and whether they were
> successful?

Understanding exactly what contribution they did, to the applications
they worked on, may be even more important.  After all, we've all seen
people who worked on app "X" and made a NEGATIVE net contribution to
"X"'s success, compensated by the far better efforts of others on the
team.  But it's unlikely that the candidate will actually say "I worked
on X, but my grasp of the language was so feeble that in fact I made it
_worse_ than it would have been without me in the team";-).

 
> I don't know.  I'm not sure I need a job with a company that insists on
> playing "Programming Jeopardy" during the interview.

I understand how some "quiz-like" questions may rub you the wrong way.
For questions such that knowing the answers is of little or no use on
the job I might even concur -- e.g., "On what exact date was Python 1.0
released" (even if the candidate claims to have been actively part of
that release, he might perfectly well misremember the date!-).

Others are iffier, e.g., "what are all the optional arguments to
built-in function 'open'" -- some people easily memorize those even if
they use them once in a blue moon, others look them up in 2 seconds
every time they need to with a "help(open)" on the interactive
interpreter prompt, so while the knowledge sure doesn't hurt it's not
very important.  That's even truer for other functions and classes with
many more, and more obscure, optional arguments.

If I asked such a question in the course of a programming task, I would
consider "hmmm, there's an optional argument for that, I don't remember
it but in real life I'd look it up in a jiffy" perfectly acceptable (if
the candidate appears to have no idea that there IS an optional argument
for a cerrtain purpose, that's slightly less good, but no disaster).

But -- being presented with a flawed solution and asked to help debug it
(by identifying the "tricky issue" on which it fails) appears to me to
be perfectly acceptable.  It IS the kind of task you face all the time
IRL, and checks how well you know the language and libraries...


Alex


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Sun Oct 16 17:06:24 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:06:24 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Xns96F165448E231castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <khz4f.25000$pJ3.1035408@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

John Bokma wrote:
> Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> 
>>John Bokma wrote:
> 
> 
>>>web based applications that work with any browser make OS irrelevant
>>>-> not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter which Linux 
>>>distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet people seem to
>>>make a point of which distribution they use.
>>
>>You make the point yourself now: if web based applications work with
>>any browser, people can freely choose their distribution based on
>>their own preferences.
> 
> 
> Yup, and what will they pick? 

The one of their choice. Nobody knows which one that will be. Maybe MS.
But that's not the point; the point is that they have the choice.  If MS
had it its way, they wouldn't have that choice.

> 
>>- An application works in IE, Firefox, Konqueror, Safari, Lynx, Links,
>>Opera, ... -> users can use it with any browser on any OS
> 
> 
> I think that we both understand that one browser will be more compatible 
> then an other. It will only happen if all use exactly the same render 
> engine, or all web recommendations are frozen.

Thousands and thousands of website work perfectly in all of the
aforementioned websites right now.

> And if that happens, people selling stuff will find ways to make
> their version just a little better.

It's very well possible to compete without breaking compatibility.
That's what Firefox, Opera, Konqueror etc. are already doing.

> Look at processors: which one would you buy at the moment? AMD? Intel? 
> and if you pick a brand, which type?

Depends on my needs, budget and the specs and price of the available
offers. Plus I always have a small, admittedly perhaps unjustified,
preference for the underdog; in the past that was AMD, in the future
that may very well be Intel. But I don't see the point of that question.

> As soon as products can't evolve much more, the producers will find
> ways to make them even better compared to last week.

As products can't evolve much more, the producers will find ways to make
them evolve?? Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

>>- An application only works in IE -> users are forced to use Windows
>>(or one of the other few OS's that IE exists on)
> 
> 
> Or wait until there comes a solution from a 3rd party. Force doesn't 
> exists with software unless you can manipulate the law to enforce it. 
> And I don't believe that everybody at Microsoft was/is that stupid to 
> think they can make that something they don't controll only works with 
> their software. Sure they can make it harder, like I said, you can 
> always add things, especially if you are the major player, but Firefox 
> is a nice proof that there is no such force, and I doubt that there are 
> people working at Microsoft in major positions who didn't see this 
> coming.

Maybe they can force it, maybe not, but that's not the point (again).
The point is what their intentions are, and that is trying to lock
people into using their software.


-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From email at christoph-haas.de  Sat Oct  1 14:28:53 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 20:28:53 +0200
Subject: Printing and prompting adds a mysterious extra space
Message-ID: <20051001182853.GA11802@torf.workaround.org>

Evening...

I'm writing a simple interactive program to maintain a database.
The goal was to print "> " at the beginning of the line, wait for
user input and then deal with it. Minimal test program:

import sys; print ">", ; print sys.stdin.readline()

However when I run the program and enter "foobar" it looks like this:

./test.py
>foobar
 foobar
^----------- where does this space come from?

I wonder where the space comes from in the line where I print what the
user typed. Does it have to do with the "," after the print which I use
to suppress the newline? Any ideas?

Regards
 Christoph
-- 
I'm still confused - just on a higher level now.
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All


From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Mon Oct 10 10:19:55 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rbt)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:19:55 -0400
Subject: socketServer questions
In-Reply-To: <7x4q7po7l2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128774994.14078.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xu0frogwj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128948284.15030.7.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7x4q7po7l2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128953995.15590.19.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>

On Mon, 2005-10-10 at 05:54 -0700, Paul Rubinhttp: wrote:
> rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> > > I don't understand the question.  HMAC requires that both ends share a
> > > secret key; does that help?  
> > 
> > That's what I don't get. If both sides have the key... how can it be
> > 'secret'? All one would have to do is look at the code on any of the
> > clients and they'd then know everything, right?
> 
> Yes, clients have to keep the key secure.
> 
> > > What do you mean by verification?
> > 
> > I'm trying to keep script kiddies from tampering with a socket server. I
> > want the server to only load a valid or verified string into its log
> > database and to discard everything else. 
> 
> If the clients can keep a secret key secure, then use hmac.  Note that
> if there's lots of clients, they shouldn't all use the same secret key.
> Instead, for client #i, let that client's key be something like
>   hmac(your_big_secret, str(i)).digest()
> and the client would send #i as part of the string.

How is this different from sending a pre-defined string from the client
that the server knows the md5 hash of? The clients know the string, the
server knows the hash of that string.

Also, could this not be done both ways? So that, if an attacker figures
out the string he's supposed to send from a client to the server (which
he could easily do). He could not easily figure out the string the
server should send back as all he would have is the hash of that string.

So, before the actual data is sent from the client to the server. The
client would send it's secret string that the server would verify and
then if that worked, the server would send its own secret string that
the client must verify. We'd have two secret strings instead of one.


>   You'd use
> #i to recompute the client's key and then use that derived key to
> verify the string.  This is called "key derivation" or "key
> diversification".  If an attacker gets hold of that client's key and
> starts hosing you, you can disable that key without affecting the
> other ones.  (The client is issued only the derived key and never sees
> the big secret).

This is interesting. I didn't know that was possible.

> 
> > Strings could come to the socket server from anywhere on the Net from
> > any machine. This is outside my control. What is there to prevent a
> > knowledgeable person from finding the py code on a client computer,
> > understanding it and then being able to forge a string that the server
> > will accept?
> 
> Yes, if you're concerned about insecure clients, you have a much more
> complex problem.  But your x..z..y scheme is far worse than hmac.
> Once the attacker figures that out, there's no security at all.

I dropped the x,y,z scheme after your first response ;)

> 
> What is the actual application, if you can say?  Depending on the
> environment and constraints, various approaches are possible.

Nothing important. It just logs network data. It's an anti-theft program
for laptops that phones home data like this: public and private IP(s),
MAC addy, date, time, etc. Maybe I'm putting too much thought into it.
Python encourages good design and I try to follow that encouragement
when coding... even for trivial things such as this. 



From smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com  Tue Oct 18 17:36:09 2005
From: smitty_one_each at bigfoot.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:36:09 -0400
Subject: Dealing with Excel
References: <1129670191.061006.146320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ll0qpkxi.fsf@bigfoot.com>

>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Hicks <sigzero at gmail.com> writes:

    Robert> I need to pull data out of Oracle and stuff it into an
    Robert> Excel spreadsheet. What modules have you used to interface
    Robert> with Excel and would you recommend it?

    Robert> Robert

For simple enough tasks, I think you can make SQL*plus output HTML,
which Excel could suck up directly.
For a sripted approach, I would recommend getting an ADODB.Connection
object to your Oracle database
, opening an ADODB.Recordset against the connection
, setting an Excel.Range object to Cell A1
, enumerating your recodset field names into the cells of row 1
, setting the Exel.Range to Cell A2
, using the ridiculously fast CopyFromRecordset method of the
  Excel.Range to dump the recordset to the sheet.
HTH,
Chris


From thakadu at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 12:40:03 2005
From: thakadu at gmail.com (thakadu)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 09:40:03 -0700
Subject: Simple prototype text editor in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1617.1128610872.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128530997.895468.164240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1128581675.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128609090.858119.28110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1617.1128610872.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128616803.591030.83360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Robert

I have packaged it up with distutils and included the
license in the README.txt file.
I think I am missing something as I have only
seen a place (under submissions) on
http://python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=submit_form
to submit the PKG_INFO file, or to submit a url manually
but nowhere to actually upload the distribution file. (the tar.gz file)

Am I looking in the wrong place? Or is it acceptable to post a .tar.gz
file in place of the PKG_INFO file?



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 20 06:53:52 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:53:52 +0100
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dj7svt$f99$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> I was wondering how people would feel if the cmp function and
> the __cmp__ method would be a bit more generalised.
> 
> The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
> indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
> equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.
> 
> So I thought that either cmp could return None in this
> case or throw a specific exception. People writing a
> __cmp__ method could do the same.
> 
The current behaviour is, of course, by design: """The operators <, >, 
==, >=, <=, and != compare the values of two objects. The objects need 
not have the same type. If both are numbers, they are converted to a 
common type. Otherwise, objects of different types always compare 
unequal, and are ordered consistently but arbitrarily."""

Personally I'm still not convinced that your requirement reflects a 
substantial use case (but then I'm getting used to that ;-). Just 
because an ordering is partial that doesn't mean that two instances of a 
class shouldn't be compared.

What would you have Python do when the programmer tries to perform an 
invalid comparison (i.e. what are the exact semantics imposed when 
__cmp__() returns None/raises an exception)?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 25 10:33:08 2005
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 07:33:08 -0700
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
References: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net><ek70njgh.fsf@python.net>
	<1128551304.960549.235420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130250788.241127.93600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have now checked a change into CVS whereby the one-off error message
is not printed unless raiseExceptions is 1. The default behaviour is
thus unchanged, but if you set raiseExceptions to 0 for production use
and then don't configure any handlers, then the message is not printed.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:29:38 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:29:38 -0700
Subject: Security on XML-RPC
Message-ID: <1130243378.736452.270130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

Anyone knows a simpler but stronger control access to XML-RPC functions
than the one I comment here?

My actual system works like this:

I have a TCP Server and an XML-RPC Server. Both of them verify if the
IP address is allowed.

The TCP Server works for validate and register an IP address if it
wasn't validated previously, while the XML-RPC Server works only if the
requester IP address was allowed through the mentioned TCP Server. This
means, anyone who wants to connect to the XML-RPC Server has to pass
the TCP Server.

How a client connects to the TCP Server and authenticate his IP?

Well, there is an interchange of encrypted data between the Client and
the TCP Server, where, in few words, the client sends a UserName and a
Password, all this through the send() function of the Socket
connection. If the TCP Server authenticate an IP address, then that
Client will be able to connect to the XML-RPC Server and use its
defined functions.

The problem I see here is that if I want someone to taking advantage of
my XML-RPC functions, I have to tell him all these. I would like to get
a strong but simpler way of doing all these.

Thank you for reading and thinking.

Daniel



From davegu1 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 19 10:13:30 2005
From: davegu1 at hotmail.com (David Gutierrez)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:13:30 -0500
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <c6ae8ad70510182203kb0703ecu@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F3D601A515839163D9FB3CFA700@phx.gbl>

Hugo,
Cual documento es el que leiste.

David.


From: hugo hernandez diaz <abraxas.alucard at gmail.com>
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:03:39 -0600
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FILETIME=[941B5BD0:01C5D46A]

hola la vdd lei su documento pero no le entoendo bien mas que nada
puedo crear algo con este programa si la respuesta es si mas o menos
que si la respuesta en no entoncs pa que sirve a ademas no me pueden
pasar oyta guia mas facil mmm soy medio lento de aprendizaje gracias
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Wed Oct 26 15:58:29 2005
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jean-marc)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 12:58:29 -0700
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
In-Reply-To: <1130356366.749611.148240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130356366.749611.148240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130356709.694069.295350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Sorry, kinda wrote over your intentions...



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  3 11:50:27 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:50:27 GMT
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Peter Decker wrote:
> On 10/3/05, Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Indeed, and that's by design: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> 
> 
> Of course, that's only one side of the argument:
> 
> http://www.blackgate.net/consulting/reply-to_munging_useful.html
> 
> On lists like this, where everyone benefits by sharing information, it
> seems pretty lame to hide behind purist arguments about Reply-To:
> headers. The default behavior should be the one most useful to the
> list. Think for a moment how many useful bits of information you've
> missed because the default for this list it to make conversations
> private.

The default of this list is not to make conversations private; in fact
the list doesn't have any default. It's you who chooses to send replies
to the original author, to the list, or both, by choosing which button
to press in your mail client.

Unfortunately AFAIK most of the popular mail clients don't offer a
'Reply to list' button. Even mutt only offers that functionality of you
manually define all your mailing lists. But that's a design problem in
these clients, not in the mailing list software.

Not that it matters that much to me, since I read practically all
mailing lists via gmane.org. That turns the lists into newsgroups, where
the reply button (follow-up, more accurately) does send the reply to the
newsgroup.

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Mon Oct 24 14:59:53 2005
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:59:53 -0700
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <djigpr$oaf$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djigpr$oaf$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510241159.53032.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

On Monday 24 October 2005 04:33, Steve Holden wrote:
> Well in that case it's time to declare Principia Mathematica obsolete.
> The real numbers are a two-dimensional field, and you are proposing to
> define an ordering for it.

I wasn't a math major, but don't you mean "the complex numbers are a two 
dimensional field"? If you mean real numbers, please do explain.

James

-- 
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From http  Wed Oct 26 20:16:22 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 17:16:22 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     If you want to sell meals with Whoppers in them, you have to get 
> permission to do so from Burger King corporate. And they will not let you 
> also sell Big Macs in the same store, even if McDonald's had no objection.

Why do you keep comparing Microsoft with Burger King?  They are not
the same.  Burger King is operating in a competitive environment.
Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopolist.  Monopolists are not
allowed to do the same things that competitors are allowed to do.
So, your observations about Burger King are irrelevant to Microsoft.


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 21 12:07:05 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:07:05 -0000
Subject: Execute C code through Python
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.2376.1129910536.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11li4h95pnci35b@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-21, Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:
> On Oct 21, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> I'm guessing you're using Windows based on the question.
>
> +1 QOTW.

Yow!  That's two in one day, what do I win?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'll take ROAST BEEF
                                  at               if you're out of LAMB!!
                               visi.com            


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Tue Oct 25 13:16:22 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:16:22 -0500
Subject: Log rolling question
In-Reply-To: <1130259387.787107.120740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130259387.787107.120740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <GK2dnZfoNIAY9cPeRVn-rg@comcast.com>

import time
#
# 120 days, 24 hours, 60 monutes, 60 seconds
#
fourmonthsago=time.time()-(120*24*60*60)

Compare fourmonthsago value to modified date of files.
Delete those that are less.

Larry Bates


elake wrote:
> I have an application that creates a lot of large log files. I only
> want to keep logs for the previous 4 months. I am looking for a way to
> list the contents of the log dir and if the create date on the log is
> older than 4 months delete it. I have looked at the os.stat() function
> to get the created date but I can't figure out how to get the date to
> go back to a previos time.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 


From egbert.bouwman at hccnet.nl  Fri Oct 28 06:38:46 2005
From: egbert.bouwman at hccnet.nl (egbert)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:38:46 +0200
Subject: Opaque documentation
Message-ID: <20051028103846.GA6382@hccnet.nl>

Once in a while you come acros aline of documentation
that you have to, or that invites you to, read it again.
This is what I found in PyGTK:

    The set_screen method sets the 'screen" property to 
    the gtk.gdk.Screen specified by screen. The "screen" property
    contains the screen that the window is displayed on.

The screen on the second line, before the period, is in italics, 
if that helps.

I like these texts. Prose should not disclose its secrets at once.
If you have other examples, please let us know.
-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================


From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 22:14:51 2005
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 19:14:51 -0700
Subject: HELP: Searching File Manager written in Python
References: <1129037968.366932.144250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129083291.906896.290480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I don't know about Norton Commander either. But, have you looked at
twander?   http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander/



From gagenellina at softlab.com.ar  Wed Oct 26 18:29:18 2005
From: gagenellina at softlab.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 15:29:18 -0700
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2601.1130335894.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130332534.999358.152530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2601.1130335894.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130365758.724259.165790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Jean-Paul Calderone ha escrito:

> >In other words, I need a *string* which, being sent to eval(), would
> >return the original object state saved in the pickle.
>
> You may find twisted.persisted.aot of some use.  Here is an example:
>
> AOT is unmaintained in Twisted, and may not support some newer features of Python (eg, datetime or deque instances).  If this seems useful, you may want to contribute patches to bring it up to the full level of functionality you need.

Oh, thanks. I have some problems installing the package but I hope it
will be useful. If any changes are needed I'll report them.

Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL



From programmer.py at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 21:56:45 2005
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 20:56:45 -0500
Subject: How is wxWindows related to Python?
In-Reply-To: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20510011856v4671d964rf272d5673e3b044d@mail.gmail.com>

That is a reference to wxPython.  wxPython is a thin wrapper around
the wxWidgets c++ library.  But really, it has grown quite a bit
lately and has a bunch of neato widgets that aren't included with
wxWidgets c++.

Visit www.wxpython.org.

jw

On 1 Oct 2005 18:36:06 -0700, Sathyaish <sathyaish at gmail.com> wrote:
> My question will sound daft to the good old craftsmen, but they will
> excuse my nescience on the subject. I come new to the Pythonic world
> from the land of .NET languages, VB6 and some familiarity in C and C++.
>
> I just read about wxWindows last night. From my understanding, it is a
> GUI framework like MFC that lets you create UI apps with ease calling a
> standard set of API accross multiple platforms (unlike MFC) and if the
> Windows port is complementary to MFC in that it shields you from
> calling the Win32 API directly.
>
> However, I do not understand its correlation with Python. The
> documentation page says, "wxWindows 2.4.2: A portable C++ and Python
> GUI toolkit." So, my question is, "How is wxWindows related to Python?"
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Fri Oct  7 18:17:56 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 00:17:56 +0200
Subject: Contest snub?
In-Reply-To: <kosdk1pcvhcsu7cs2mfjpmgpaf5kthk6pi@4ax.com>
References: <kosdk1pcvhcsu7cs2mfjpmgpaf5kthk6pi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <jv-dnR_PbMixadveRVnzvA@telenor.com>

maxx at easynews.com wrote:
> Notice anything strange here? The Python entry seems to have edged the PHP
> entries, but is not declared the victor. Source is missing as well (the archive
> is empty.) 
> 
> http://www.apress.com/promo/fractal/seesource.html
> 
> Hmmmm... an irrational fear of snakes perhaps?
> 

Clearly Python is superior because it doesn't need any code at all to do 
fractals.

Surely you can see that? :)

I question the timings though, 2+ minutes to execute nothing doesn't 
seem very pythonesque.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 21 09:50:36 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:50:36 -0400
Subject: Converting 2bit hex representation to integer ?
In-Reply-To: <43567508$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <43567027$0$41144$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<-_2dndLn4eEm78veRVn-qg@comcast.com>
	<4356740c$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<43567508$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <44GdnTlgTrKJb8XeRVn-sg@powergate.ca>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> I just tried 
> 
> n=str(x)
> print struct.unpack("b",n)
> 
> I get (51,)
> 
> What is the deal with the parenthesis
> and the comma ?

If you really don't know what the parentheses and comma mean in the 
above output, I would suggest that you need to go back a step and walk 
through the Python tutorial before you try to continue on with what you 
are attempting to do.  (Section 5.3 specifically covers your question.) 
  Either that, or read the documentation on struct.unpack() since that 
describes what it returns fairly clearly.

Assuming your input represents a C-style integer (i.e. fixed size) 
rather than a Python long integer (of arbitrary length), you should be 
able to use just struct.unpack('i', mybinarydata)[0] to get the result 
you need...

-Peter


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 11:44:15 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:44:15 -0700
Subject: calling matlab
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510120909530.13291-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510120909530.13291-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <dijb0h$cgn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mohammed Smadi wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> Does anyone know if we can call matlab for a python or bash script while 
> feeding the matlab script some command line arguments?  I have an 
> interactive matlab script which i want to automate by feeding the args 
> from a script.

Depending on how interactive it is, you should look at the subprocess
module in the stdlib or pexpect.

  http://docs.python.org/lib/module-subprocess.html
  http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From sszmidt at netwvcom.com  Mon Oct  3 19:10:32 2005
From: sszmidt at netwvcom.com (sszmidt at netwvcom.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:10:32 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <200510031910.32684.sszmidt@netwvcom.com>

On Monday 03 October 2005 11:50, Roel Schroeven wrote:
> Peter Decker wrote:
> Unfortunately AFAIK most of the popular mail clients don't offer a
> 'Reply to list' button. Even mutt only offers that functionality of you

Of course if you have kmail it has full list support and allows you to do 
that. This is my all time favorite email client.

-- 

Steve


From UrsusMaximus at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:43:43 2005
From: UrsusMaximus at gmail.com (UrsusMaximus at gmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:43:43 -0700
Subject: So far
In-Reply-To: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
References: <LDa1f.70423$mb4.1372@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1128609823.151531.24940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Try PythonCard

Ron Stephens
Python Learning Center
a prententious name for a nice hobbyist resource
www.awaretek.com/plf.html



From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Wed Oct  5 06:39:30 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 03:39:30 -0700
Subject: bug or feature?
Message-ID: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Coming back from a bug hunt, i am not sure what to think of this python
behaviour. Here is a demo program:

class A:
   def __init__(self, lst=[]):
      self.lst = lst

a = A()
b = A()
b.lst.append("hallo")
print a.lst # output: ["hallo"]

The point seems to be, that lst=[] creates a class attribute (correct
name?), which is shared by all instances of A. So a.lst ist the same
object as b.lst, despite the fact, that object a is different to object
b.



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 18:31:46 2005
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 15:31:46 -0700
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2269.1129752317.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2269.1129752317.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129761106.725465.42290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> reset your brain:
>
>     http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm

Neat link.

Can you expand on this:

> a type (returned by type(x))
...
> You cannot change the type.

Especially what's going on here:

>>> class a(object):
...     pass
...
>>> class b(a):
...     pass
...
>>> x=b()
>>> x.attr=1
>>> type(x)
<class '__main__.b'>
>>> type(y)
<class '__main__.b'>
>>> x.__class__=a
>>> type(x)
<class '__main__.a'>
>>> x.attr
1

It looks to me like x is still referencing the same object (and still
has the "attr" attribute) but its type has changed.  Is that not right?



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 18:03:05 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 00:03:05 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> If you've got a browser with a better solution, what's the browser,
> and what's the solution?

There is no single solution.

On one side you got control freaks who condemn everyone who dares send 
an email with something other than what you've got your own email set up 
to use. "You dare specify the font sized when I finally figured out that 
10 is just right? Infidel!"

On the other side you got people who would like to have slightly more 
control over their email formatting than the ability to hit enter to 
denote a line break. "Whaddya mean I can't specify bold text to 
emphasize a point?"

As long as you got something called a feature, there will always be 
people who will be able to abuse it.

Now, if you want to get into a big huff because someone you knows use a 
font that is "slightly oversized" because of Windows, then I think you 
missed the point of the email altogether, which was probably to convey a 
message.

Just the same as people that sends bright red text on green background 
seems to miss the whole issue of "appropriate".

It doesn't matter what is used, decided, controlled, allowed, removed, 
whatever. Some people will always like it, some will hate it, some will 
abuse it, but most of all there will always be people that will discuss it.

Hopefully most people will use it for what it is.

In any case, html email is here to stay. Or perhaps I should remove html 
and say "richly formatted", whatever that might mean in the future.

But trying to keep your email world into a pure text-based 
no-formatting-whatsoever world, that's a fantasy bubble that is bound to 
burst, sooner rather than later.

Deal with it.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Sat Oct 15 23:57:07 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:57:07 GMT
Subject: Two python database questions
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.03.57.06.629941@dcs.nac.uci.edu>


Hi folks.

I'm working on some file indexing software, in python of course.

Over the course of working on it, I've come upon two python+database
related questions:

1) Is there a reason for the gdbm module in python 2.4.1 not to have a get
method?  This makes it a touch less dictionary-like.

2) Has anyone already written some sort of in-memory cache wrapper for
gdbm or anydbm or whatever?  As I'm writing this program, I'm finding that
there's an awful lot of disk I/O going on - it'd be great if there were
some way of keeping the n most recently used items in memory, and only
write them to disk when room needs to be made in the cache or when the
program exits?

Thanks!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 22:56:36 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:56:36 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2688.1130526293.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130531874.710810.39050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x8xwdid3e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1h55r8f.1ut74echynglzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> "KraftDiner" <bobrien18 at yahoo.com> writes:
> > In C++ you can specify a comparision method, how can I do this with
> > python...
> 
> Yes, see the docs.  Just pass a comparison func to the sort method.

Or, better, pass a key-extraction function, that's much handier and
faster (it automates the "decorate-sort-undecorate", DSU, idiom).


Alex


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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 03:25:32 GMT
Subject: Online Poker Pays! Learn All The Secrets Now!NBP Unregistered.
Message-ID: <M2X8f.353694$tl2.256787@pd7tw3no>

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From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Tue Oct  4 13:21:56 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (Mohammed Smadi)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:21:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: tcp socket programming
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510041317440.351-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

hi;
If i have a tcp connection with a remote server, what is a good way to 
read all the data into a buffer before starting to process the data?
I know that the data recieved will be 3 lines with CRLF between them.  
However if I can sock.recv(1024) the output is not consistent all the 
time, sometime i get one line and sometimes i get two.  So I figures I 
should read all the data first then work on it and I used the following 
code:
result = []
while True:
    got=s.recv(1024)
    print got
    if not got: break
    result.append(got)
    got = [] # i tried also taking this out
s.close()

but this code just hangs in the loop and never quits

any ideas will be much appreciated

moe smadi



From fergdeff at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 11:08:33 2005
From: fergdeff at gmail.com (ferg)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:08:33 -0700
Subject: MoinMoin - Can't create new pages
In-Reply-To: <1130252427.220729.312180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130252059.474472.102670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130252427.220729.312180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130252913.385217.64250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Newsflash:
I've tried the [[NewPage]] macro and that works, but still no joy with
the WikiName links. Well that's a work around for now, but it'd still
be great to know why the other methods don't work...



From shannonlayland at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 15:01:29 2005
From: shannonlayland at gmail.com (shannonl)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 12:01:29 -0700
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
Message-ID: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

For some reason this bind is calling the donothing function, like it
should, but is then allowing the text to be inserted into the Text
widget.

Here is the code:

self.framebody.tag_config("name", underline=1)
self.framebody.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>", self.donothing)

line = '\t%s' % ('sometext')
self.framebody.insert(END, line, "name")

def donothing(self):
    return 'break'

This donothing function should keep the tcl bind from inserting the
text...at least so I thought.

This bind does work on the text widget as a whole, but on a individual
tag, it does not.

Can anyone help me out with this?

Thanks in advance,
Shannon



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 11:58:39 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:58:39 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7x4q7rt3yl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.11.27.36.413784@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1790.1128858333.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.15.58.39.639129@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:43:38 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>> If I wanted to inspect the value of cache, where would I find it?
> 
> nowhere.  at least no officially; see "Rebinding names in enclosing
> scopes" in the design document for a discussion:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0227.html

That's interesting to read, and does clarify a few things that weren't
straight in my head, but I notice that the author, Jeremy Hylton,
distinguishes between Python creating function definitions that are
closures from those that aren't:

"Each def or lambda expression that is executed will create a closure if
the body of the function or any contained function has free variables."

Presumably that means that if there are no free variables, no closure
is created.


>> That assumes that cache can be seen in this way. If it can't, is this a
>> way to create "really private" variables in Python?
> 
> no, because Python doesn't prevent you from digging into the
> internals:
> 
>     http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440515

That's blackest voodoo, and as the warning says, could cause Python to
sigfault if you get the opcodes wrong.

I think that this is close enough to "really private" to satisfy most
people. Maybe even Paul Rubin *wink*


-- 
Steven.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct  5 09:39:31 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:39:31 +1000
Subject: While and If messing up my program?
References: <Xns96E612697DFC4cjnowherecom@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.05.13.39.27.698159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:48:59 +0000, CJ wrote:

>  
>    Hey, I'm new to the Python world, but I do have experience in several 
> other languages. I've been running through a tutorial, and I decided that 
> I'd make a program that runs through a list, finds if there are any 
> duplicates. The program, doesn't work, but since its a first build I 
> wasn't too worried about it. I'd be highly impressed if I got the program 
> to run correctly in the first build, I want to debug it myself later.
> 
>    What does worry me, is that I can't seem to get the program by a 
> certain spot. It keeps giving me the same error, and I don't know why.

Here are some techniques for tracking down this sort of bug. The best
thing is, these techniques will help you write better code in the first
place, as well as easier to debug.


Firstly, encapsulate your code. Instead of writing one big lump of code,
break it into small digestible functions.

def run_test():
    choice=raw_input("Begin? ")
    return choice == "yes" or choice == "y"
    # or better still:
    # choice.lower() in ("yes", "y", "begin"):


def do_test(ttllst):
    # initialise variables
    cnto=0
    cntt=1
    rept=-1
    # loop through the list, counting duplicates
    while cnto<>len(ttllst)+1:

        print "debugging...", cnto, cntt

        if ttllst[cnto]==ttllst[cntt]:
            rept=rept+1
        if cntt==len(ttllst):
            print ttllst[cnto],"appears in the list",rept,"times."
            cntt=-1
            cnto=cnto+1
            rept=-1
        cntt=cntt+1
    print "done."


def main():
    if run_test():
        ttllst=[4,3,45,3]
        do_test(ttllst)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    # only happens when *running* the file, 
    # not when *importing* it
    main()


Now you have separated your user interface from the business end of your
code, and you can isolate more simply where the error lies.

Continue to encapsulate your code: the while loop is a good candidate. It
runs through the list comparing each character to one known character. So
I would change do_test to look like this:

def do_test(L):
    """Run our item-counting test on list L."""
    # loop through the list, counting duplicates
    for index in range(len(L)):
        current_item = L[index]
        item_count = item_counter(L, current_item)
        print current_item, "appears in the list", item_count, "times."
        # or better still
        # print "%s appears in the list %d times." % (current_item,item_count)
    print "done"


def item_counter(L, obj):
    """Return the number of times obj is in list L."""
    counter = 0
    for item in L:
        if item == obj:
            counter = counter + 1
    return counter

Now that you (hopefully) have bug-free code, you can continue to improve
and optimize your program. For example, instead of creating your own
item_counter function, you will soon learn that Python lists have their
own much quicker version.

In general, you want to make your code as general as practical, without
being too specific. You started with the problem "How can I count the
number of times each item in list ttllst exists in ttllst?" A more general
question is "How do I count the number of items *any* object exists in
*any* list?", and then use that code to answer your first question.


Hope this helps,



-- 
Steven.



From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 17:56:56 2005
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 14:56:56 -0700
Subject: assignment to reference
In-Reply-To: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
References: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1130363816.457178.320790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I apparently don't understand this question in the same way the way
others do. I think the question is about the mutability of strings.

To my understanding of your question, it is impossible, at least if the
referenced objects are strings or other objects of immutable type.

 'cabbage' cannot be changed into 'coconut', though list('cabbage') can
be changed to list('coconut') in place.

>>> x = list('cabbage')
>>> id(x)
458640
>>> y = list('coconut')
>>> id(y)
458736
>>> x[:] = y[:]
>>> x
['c', 'o', 'c', 'o', 'n', 'u', 't']
>>> id (x)
458640
>>> "".join(x)
'coconut'

You would need to be doing a LOT of these for any of this to be worth
the bother, or else have some rather exotic application you aren't
telling us about.

If I am reading you right the eval() is a red herring. I agree with the
others that you don't want an eval() here and you're better off with a
dict, but I am not sure that answers your question. 

mt



From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Tue Oct 11 08:52:36 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 05:52:36 -0700
Subject: How to do *args, **kwargs properly
References: <dig86q$4m2$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<434ba819$0$38698$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<dig9k9$6nh$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1129035156.328142.216850@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

"Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:

> So what you're saying is that instead of:
>
> def fn(*values, **options):
>
> I should use:
>
> def fn(values, cmp=cmp):
>
> in this specific case?
>
> and then instead of:
>
> fn(1, 2, 3, cmp=...)
>
> this:
>
> fn([1, 2, 3], cmp=...)
>
> <snip>
>
> I think I'll re-write to use a list instead

Actually in most cases you don't need to assume it's a list; any
iterable is usually good enough. You can always turn it into a list (or
a tuple or a set or..) in the function if you really have to. So when
you do have to and when you don't ? You don't have to if all you do is
iterate over the elements. This is true even if you want to iterate
more than once; just use the itertools.tee() function to create N
independent iterators. To sum up, a better signature for your function
is likely to be "def fn(iterable, cmp=cmp)".

George



From email at christoph-haas.de  Fri Oct 14 16:37:48 2005
From: email at christoph-haas.de (Christoph Haas)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:37:48 +0200
Subject: Best way to handle cgi sessions
In-Reply-To: <17fc20160510141222g65b11873y28ca495874a64156@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17fc20160510141222g65b11873y28ca495874a64156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200510142237.48682.email@christoph-haas.de>

On Friday 14 October 2005 21:22, Derek Perriero wrote:
> What would be the best way to create a cgi session that contains the
> basic elements of a cookie and can also hold secure data, such as a
> username/password. I've explored the possibilities of using SmartCookie,
> but that doesn't encrypt my parameters.

Encrypting the parameters is probably not the best way. Usually you store
the information you need in your own database and just pass the client
(web browser/user) a handle (session ID). That way you temporarily identify
the user through the session ID but can store data in your database that 
the
user cannot even see.

There are a few things you need to take care of like:
- only pass a new session cookie if necessary
  (otherwise the user may be prompted to accept the same cookie time and
  again)
- expire the session if the user hasn't been using it
- check if the session ID fits the IP address you recorded
- create unique session IDs

A link from my list of bookmarks about session handling:
http://starship.python.net/~davem/cgifaq/faqw.cgi?req=show&file=faq02.011.htp

We have recently developed such a session handler for a Debian-related web
site which uses a MySQL table to store session information. If there is
interest I'll tidy it up a bit and make it publicly available.

Cheers
 Christoph
-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 1 line --100%--                1,48         All



From sjmaster at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 19:31:32 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 16:31:32 -0700
Subject: Queue question
In-Reply-To: <1129413036.271162.279880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129413036.271162.279880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129419092.954592.59630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

According to my "Python in a Nutshell":

q.get(block=True)

is the signature, so, as you use it above, the call will hang until
something is on the queue. If block is false and the queue is empty,
q.get() will raise the exception Empty.

q.get_nowait is apparently synonymous with q.get(block=False)


q.not_empty, if it existed, I expect would be true just in case there
was at least one item in the queue. But according to my book there is
q.empty and q.full, which is true when the queue has the maximum
allowed number of items (a value specified when the queue is created).

Also, I don't think you can rely on q.empty in the way you may expect.
For example, another thread can empty the queue between the time you
test whether q.empty is false and the time you call q.get.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct  6 09:30:33 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:30:33 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>

> 
> I can't help but feel that a lot of people have specific typechecking
> systems in mind and then conclude that the limits of such a symtem
> are inherent in typechecking itself.

I've been writing a type-checker for my diploma thesis for a functionnal 
programmming language. And it _is_ limited. The very subject of my work 
was to explore extended type-checking methods (so called 
multi-level-specifications),, which can be shwon to be NP-hard problems. 
Which naturally limits the domains they can be used to.

> IMO a good type system doesn't need to limit python in any way.

It has to. certainly. Take alone the list implementation - while 
typesystems as ML allow for generics (with much less typing overhead 
than JAVA), the list is always homogenous. Which python's aren't - and 
that a great thing(tm), even though ususally the contents of a list 
share some common behaviour. And that exactly is the key point here: in 
a statically typed world, that common behaviour must have been extracted 
and made explicit. Which is the cause for that notorious java io API. 
And, to extend the argument to ML-type type-checking, there you need a 
disjoint union of the possible types - _beforehand_, and the code 
dealing with it has to be aware of it.

In python OTH, I just pass objects I like into the list - if they 
behave, fine.

DIez


From erchamion.beren at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 07:21:07 2005
From: erchamion.beren at gmail.com (Sinan Nalkaya)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:21:07 +0200
Subject: taking x-window screen shot
Message-ID: <43660C33.5080603@gmail.com>

hi i have some python practice and want to develop tiny prgramme that 
takes screen shots from command line, im using gnome now but my 
programme should support the others especially pure X - window. also i 
want to learn some more about inside when taking screen shots.
thanks.


From xushanjun1212 at yahoo.com-dot-cn.no-spam.invalid  Mon Oct  3 08:46:18 2005
From: xushanjun1212 at yahoo.com-dot-cn.no-spam.invalid (shanjunxu)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 12:46:18 GMT
Subject: about pyopengl
Message-ID: <4341281a$0$98071$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>

I am a chinese boy,my english is not good,so i don not know how to
tell you about my question,i hope you can understand what i say.
I like python, and now i using pyopengl to draw three-dimensional.
but how can i use mouse to control objects?such as selecting object.I
know a function( glSelectBuffer() ) can be used,In C language the
format is glSelectBuffer(size, buffer),  but in python the format is
glSelectBuffer(size), how can i get the "buffer" pointer?
The following is one section function of my codes:
def ProcessSelection(x,y):
    viewport=range(4)
    glSelectBuffer(64)
    viewport=glGetIntegerv(GL_VIEWPORT)
    glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION)
    glPushMatrix()
    glRenderMode(GL_SELECT)
    glLoadIdentity()
    gluPickMatrix(x, viewport[3]-y, 2, 2, viewport)
    gluPerspective(45.0, aspect, 0.1, 200.0)
    
    DrawButton()
    hits=glRenderMode(GL_RENDER)
 
    glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION)
    glPopMatrix()
    glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW)

If you know how to do ,can you mail to me?thank you!
my e-mail is xushanjun1212 at yahoo.com.cn



From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Wed Oct 26 18:01:08 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:01:08 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
> "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message news:b94533-nu5.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
>> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>     That doesn't at all address my point. The point is, there are large 
> numbers of people looking for computers with Windows installed on them. If 
> you sell this type of computer, this type of person will come to you.

That is an item of data which is largely true - it's not totally true,
because most people could not care less what operating system  is on
their computer so long as it is one which causes them no trouble and
which doesn't get in the way (uh, fail to MS win there, twice) and
which in general is a plus for them rather than a minus (porbably true
for MS windows and most of the hoi poloi, not me). But it's not a
POINT, at least not the intended conclusion of an argument or
subargument, which is what I understand a point to be. The type you
score, that is.

>> No it isn't. Quite the opposite - look at a computer shop or a
>> computer advert, and you will see "Pentium 4 3.4GHz 1MB cache, 1GB DDR
>> RAM", etc. etc.

>     And you will also see "Designed for Windows XP" or a Microsoft logo in 
> the ad.

If they said that, that would be an actionable statement, because it
isn't, if it is a PC clone - PC's have defined standard interfaces,
that's the idea and design of a PC. Therefore a PC cannot be designed
for an operating system, just as a wall switch cannot be designed for
a lampshade. A PC is designed without reference to an operating
system, just as a lightswitch is designed withut reference to a
particular lampshade.

Will you PLEASE stop these nonsense detours! You know perfectly well
that there is no "windows franchise" in the sense that there is a
MacDonalds franchise.  Shops which sell computers do not have
(metaphorical) MS arches over the door.  They say "get your compyutas
'ere", not "welcome to the Microsoftiland total experience.  Enjoy".
And MS in particular has no hardware side (modulo the mouse and matching
mat).  They tried to rig the market in operating systems for the IBM PC,
not get a monopoloy on PC manufacture.

>     No, my point is that this specific Microsoft tactic was a *lesser* 
> tactic than offering only exclusive wholesale deals and there's nothing 
> wrong with a company that only offers exclusive wholesale deals.

That is not a point, it is an incomplete claim of fact plus a judgment
(first half-sentence), and a hypohetical case plus judgment (second
half-sentence).

  claim     1a) Microsoft's tactic is X (fill in, please)
  judgment  1b) tactic X is somehow not as bad as (sense?) offering
                "exclusive wholesale deals" (please define)

  hypothesis 2a) Company Z (arbitrary) offers exclusive wholesale deal.
  judgment  2b) Company Z does no wrong in doing so.

I presume your argument then goes via 1b and 2b to conclude that there is
nothing wrong with Microsofts tactic X. The logic is fine - it remains
to dispute your claims and judgments.


>     What Microsoft didn't want was someone going to a store to buy a PC with 
> Windows and being told that another OS is better and cheaper.

Tough - that's what salespeople are for (notionally, in a shop you
trust).


Peter


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Wed Oct  5 12:49:48 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:49:48 -0600
Subject: change a value to NULL?
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F10@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

Just tested it.  Access does recognize None as null/blank/etc when None
is passed in from python.


Kevin Bell


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Bell, Kevin
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:33 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: change a value to NULL?

Thanks, being new to this, I wasn't sure if I should use None, Null,
Nope, Nada, or Nil!  

I'm going to be loading a list into an MS Access db.  Do you know if I
load None into an Access field if Access will recognize that as
blank/null?  I suppose I'll just go test it out.

Thanks again...

Kevin Bell


-----Original Message-----
From: Laszlo Zsolt Nagy [mailto:gandalf at designaproduct.biz] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:18 AM
To: Bell, Kevin; python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: change a value to NULL?

Bell, Kevin wrote:

>I'm pulling a list of numbers from MS Excel, but occasionally if there
>is no data from excel, the value is an asterisk, but I need to make it
>null.  
>
>What is the best way to do that?  Thus far, I'm using:
>
>
>for value in myRange:
>       try:
>           intV = int(value)
>           print intV
>       except:
>           print "its an asterisk" 
>  
>
I'm affraid I did not understand what is your real problem.
Here is an answer, anyway.

When converting a string intoto an int, you should use TypeError to trap

type errors only:

try:
  intV = int(value)
except TypeError:
  intV = None

print intV # It will be None if 'value' is not an int

Best,

   Les



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Oct 15 04:36:47 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 08:36:47 GMT
Subject: Let My Terminal Go
References: <1129010288.251817.147690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129012665.29863.2.camel@blackwidow>
	<1129026623.319531.97420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.11.21.33.19.546178@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<slrndksub2.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<7x4q7lmk6j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl19j9.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 13 Oct 2005 09:54:44 -0700, Paul Rubin <http> wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:
>> It depends on what you mean by expensive -- web servers can fork for each
>> HTTP request they get, in real-world scenarios, and get away with it.
>
> This is OS dependent.  Forking on Windows is much more expensive than
> forking on Linux.

Forking, to me, means doing what the Unix fork(2) system call does. Since
AFAIK there is no corresponding Win32 call, I assumed the original poster
was on Unix.

But now I see that he didn't use the word "fork"; someone else in the thread
did ...

You are correct, of course; the cost of spawning processes varies a lot
between OSes, and it's distinctly higher on Windows compared to Unixes in
general and Linux in particular.

(BTW, Eric Raymond argues that low-cost spawning is an important
characteristic of an OS: see
  http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch03s01.html#id2892171 )

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Oct  7 17:00:47 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 21:00:47 +0000
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no> <dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>
	<878xxegrtx.fsf@pobox.com>
	<200510070015.56786.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
Message-ID: <877jcpavpc.fsf@pobox.com>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> writes:

> On Friday 30 September 2005 04:37 pm, John J. Lee wrote:
> > "Tor Erik S?nvisen" <tores at stud.cs.uit.no> writes:
> > > Thanks for the answers... And yes, I have searched google! 
> > 
> > How odd -- the most useful link (the viewcvs page for this source
> > file) is the very first link for me when I search for socketmodule.c
> > 
> > Does google vary in its results across the globe?
> 
> Of course you meant to be snippy and sarcastic,

I really was wondering if such results varied, because it seemed hard
to believe somebody wouldn't do a similar search.  And the idea that
he might have been too lazy didn't enter my head <wink>


> but you've actually
> exemplified the reason why so many people don't find such a thing
> with Google.  Like all search engines, you have to know the right
> keyword -- to a fair degree of precision -- in order to find what
> you're looking for.

Oh, come off it.  It seems hard to imagine that trying socketmodule.c
when looking for socketmodule.c requires some expert search-fu that
I'm supposed to posess.


> This is very unlike asking a question of a human being.  *People*
> respond much better to general subject headings such as "socket
> module" or "python sources" rather than looking for something
> ultra-specific like a particular file name.

He wasn't looking for general information.  He told us he was looking
for socketmodule.c, for Pete's sake!  And "python sources" *does*
takes you to the Python sources.


> Researchers take this
> training with them when they approach Google and treat it like
> a magic librarian -- they give it the same thing they would come
> to a human librarian with.

You conjure up in my mind a nice picture of an be-cardiganed gentleman
in an oak-panelled corner of the British Library, in his early
seventies complete with pipe, dust, and technophobia.  Seems an
unlikely image for somebody with an email address containing the
string "@stud.cs." and stating their interest in reading networking
code written in C <wink>

Still, going back to researchers-with-pipes ("researcher" meaning
"collator of information" rather than "creator/discoverer of original
ideas"), I perhaps naively assume that such Google-phobic researchers
must nowadays do other work for a living.  Who'd want to employ a
researcher who can't efficiently use search engines and other
databases these days?  But as I say, I could well be naive here... I
recall my not-astonishment at trying to find a book in a local (but
not small) public library, and finding that the librarian was unable
to do so, despite their apparent enthusiasm at my request, and initial
proud promises that the databases they pay for would find it even if
none of the regional libraries had a copy (due in this case I suspect,
and hasten to add, to the databases simply lacking the relevant
records, rather than incompetence on the part of the librarian).  I
walked round the corner and found it on both Amazon and Google in
around a few seconds each time.  I had been led to believe books were
something of a library speciality...

In fact, rambling a little further, I can honestly say (in the
certainty and enjoyment of offending any librarians reading <0.75
wink>) that I've never knowingly extracted any useful information from
a librarian, who in legend are supposed to have such old-style
researcher-fu as you refer to.  This applies even to pre-Google days,
despite having spent a fair amount of time in libraries, and asking a
fair range of questions over a period of years: some very specific,
some quite general and wooly; some particular, some about general
search strategies and techniques.  <sarcasm level="0">Perhaps that
just reflects my interests or level of competence in one way or
another.</sarcasm>

[...]
> Seriously, though, for anybody new to using search engines, it
> is a very useful rule of thumb -- search for a specific word
> likely to appear on the page you are looking for, and not
> elsewhere.
[...]

It's quite true that has to be learned.


John



From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 22:01:25 2005
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal  Norwitz)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 19:01:25 -0700
Subject: Idle bytecode query on apparently unreachable returns
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510100013390.9135@urchin.earth.li>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510100013390.9135@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1128909685.049438.110370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Tom Anderson wrote:
> Evening all,
>
> Here's a brief chat with the interpretator:

[snip]

> What puzzles me, though, are bytecodes 17, 39 and 42 - surely these aren't
> reachable? Does the compiler just throw in a default 'return None'
> epilogue, with routes there from every code path, even when it's not
> needed? If so, why?

I think the last RETURN_VALUE (None) isn't thrown in unless there is
some sort of conditional the precedes it as in this example.

As to why:  it's easier and no one has done anything about fixing it.
If you (or anyone else) are interested, the code is in
Python/compile.c.  Search for the optimize_code() function.

n



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 20:08:24 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:08:24 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<5hrik11q3p5ugcjm4hmmgqgq20o8fdrhr9@4ax.com>
	<7x4q7q2yer.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>
	<11kr5p3hstor935@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <b89rk1phchi0224ha46cq1k1rqvld2a3jf@4ax.com>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:07:15 -0000, gordonb.e2yfo at burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote or quoted :

>	Links
>	Javascript
>	Forms
>	References to other files

the only piece of that particularly dangerous is JavaScript.  So long
as you have a scheme to unmask where links are really going links are
no more dangerous than they are in browser.

Even a form is not dangerous.  You have to fill it in and hit submit.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From christian at spam.not  Fri Oct 21 08:36:12 2005
From: christian at spam.not (Christian)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:36:12 +0200
Subject: Set an environment variable
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2355.1129895599.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<mailman.2341.1129880858.509.python-list@python.org>	<4358d112$0$187$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.2355.1129895599.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4358e0bd$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Time you answered your own questions by trying things at the interactive 
> interpreter prompt!
> 
> regards
>  Steve

Right again, Steve.

Thanks


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 26 03:53:31 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 07:53:31 GMT
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

James Stroud wrote:

> On Tuesday 25 October 2005 00:31, Duncan Booth wrote:
>> P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting
> 
> Were it not for Steve Holden's providing me with a link off the list,
> I would have never known to what it is you are referring. I have read
> some relevant literature to find that this is more widely known as
> "top-posting". I'll go with majority rules here, but I would like to
> say that my lack of "netiquette" in this matter comes from
> practicality and not malice.

No, I didn't think it was malice which is why I just added what I 
considered to be a polite request at the end of my message. I assumed that 
most people either knew the phrase or could find out in a few seconds using 
Google so there wasn't much point in rehashing the arguments. Probably I 
should have equally lambasted Ron for the heinous crime of bottom-quoting. 

In general, there are three ways to quote a message: top-quoting, which 
forces people to read the message out of order; bottom-quoting which is 
nearly as bad because it hides the new comments; and proper quoting in 
context where you trim the message and put specific points under brief bits 
of context.

The thread in question had a horrific mix of top and bottom quoting, so 
that when I tried to reply at what I thought was an appropriate point in 
the thread (<pYj7f.213077$p_1.134475 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com>) I think the 
order it went was something like:

> quote from James (4)
comment from Ron (5)
>>> quote from James (2)
>> comment from Ron (3)
>>> quote from James (2)
>>>> quote from Ron (1)

I spent a while trying to trim that down to relevant context, and in 
particular trying to work out in what order the original statements had 
been made. In the end I gave up and replied to an earlier message which was 
more easily trimmable.

> Also, here is a well written synopsis of the arguments in 
> favor of top-posting and they may even be strong enough to legitimize the 
> practice:

The arguments are mostly sound, but I would draw slightly different 
conclusions:

Follow the conventions of the particular newsgroup or mailing list, but 
with that in mind, for all replies, Middle Post. Respond to each point in 
turn with lots of snipping.

He's right though, its not a religious issue.


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Oct 24 11:20:48 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:20:48 -0500
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17244.64464.996726.7126@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Joerg> Or is there a way to circumvent [capturing groups limitation]?

Sure, submit a patch to SourceForge that removes the restriction.

I've never come anywhere close to creating regular expressions that need to
capture 100 groups even though I generate regular expressions from a
higher-level representation.  I suspect few will have hit that limit.
Perhaps explain what motivates you to want to capture that many groups.
Other people may be able to suggest alternatives.  And remember:

    Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
    regular expressions." Now they have two problems. --Jamie Zawinski

Skip


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 17 22:44:55 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:44:55 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i at 4ax.com...

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:36:53 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>    As for it being illegal, it was illegal only because if was Microsoft
>>doing it. There's nothing illegal about a car dealer not selling a car
>>without an engine.

> But that is not what was happening. It was not Microsoft selling
> computers with MS OSs. MS was arm-twisting  retailers like me to
> bundle a copy of Windows with every sale whether the customer wanted
> it or not.  I think some imagine a computer is worthless without
> Windows.

    It is Microsoft's view that a computer is worthless without Windows. 
They are fully entitled to have that view.

> That gave their OS a grossly unfair price advantage.

    It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's 
obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with 
Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or fraud.

    DS




From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 24 14:55:41 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:55:41 +0100
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
In-Reply-To: <1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130175703.541446.153670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djjand$olr$1@sea.gmane.org>

beza1e1 wrote:
> let me try.
> 
> 1) ''.join(lots_of_pieces)
> 
> 2) This doesn't even work, if something is removed, the list is too
> short. So:
> [x for x in somelist if not isbad(x)]
> well, list comprehension is Python 2.4 and 2.3 is the standard in many
> OSes, so it is possibly not the most portable solution
> I had to look up the syntax, because i never use it in my code, yet.

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 25 2004, 16:56:05)
[GCC 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> [a.upper() for a in ['two', 'point', 'two']]
['TWO', 'POINT', 'TWO']
 >>>

> 
> 3+4) I never used property - had to look it up. So i learned something
> :)
> 
regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lycka at carmen.se  Fri Oct 14 10:29:58 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:29:58 +0200
Subject: File compare
In-Reply-To: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129150273.991158.203660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <diofd7$njd$1@wake.carmen.se>

PyPK wrote:
> I have two files
> file1 in format
> <id> <val1> <test1> <test2>
> 'AA' 1 T T
> 'AB' 1 T F
> 
> file2 same as file1
> <id> <val1> <test1> <test2>
> 'AA' 1 T T
> 'AB' 1 T T
> 
> Also the compare should be based on id. So it should look for line
> starting with id 'AA' (for example) and then match the line  so if in
> second case.

See the recent thread with subject line "List performance and CSV".


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Wed Oct 19 10:02:17 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:02:17 +1000
Subject: [newbie]Is there a module for print object in a readable format?
References: <divqmi$lnu$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<m3mzl87am5.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<pan.2005.10.17.13.16.41.654136@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dj4858$2t0$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.19.14.02.16.956637@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:39:48 +0800, James Gan wrote:

> Hi, Steven
> 
> :) width parameter do the magic :
> 
>  >>> pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2,[3,4]],5], width=1,indent=4)
> [   1,
>      2,
>      3,
>      4,
>      [   0,
>          1,
>          2,
>          [   3,
>              4]],
>      5]
>  >>>

That's not what I get. What are you using?

py> pprint.pprint([1,2,3,4,[0,1,2], 5], width=1, indent=4)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: pprint() got an unexpected keyword argument 'width'



-- 
Steven.



From http  Fri Oct 28 16:21:01 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:21:01 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djrjlv$i31$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xr7a52y1e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     Is it your position that Micorosoft's monopoly was illegal when they 
> first acquired it?

It's utterly irrelevant whether it was illegal when they acquired it.
The law is against acquiring OR MAINTAINING a monopoly by
anticompetitive means.   That's what MS was convicted of.

>     No. I have never received a dime from Microsoft, either directly or 
> indirectly. I am one of those people who believes that conduct that's 
> perfectly legal, moral and ethical before you can be said to have a monopoly 
> does not suddenly become immoral or unethical the day you acquire 51% of 
> what someone calls a market.

The Sherman Act has nothing to do with acquiring 51% of a market.

> I am not the only person with this view.
> http://www.capitalism.org/faq/antitrust.htm
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0945999623?v=glance
> http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-169.html
> http://www.independent.org/publications/books/book_summary.asp?bookID=31
> http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=344&org_name=NTUF

I could care less what the self-serving libertarian lunatic fringe thinks.


From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 14:07:20 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 11:07:20 -0700
Subject: replacments for stdio?
In-Reply-To: <1128615824.381261.47200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1127477278.036977.189230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127670588.872596.117560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128079278.563621.8310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128548582.759883.326290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128597932.529665.51810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128615824.381261.47200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128622040.860350.24710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Yes, i thought so myself.

Thanks,
Ido.



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  8 11:39:30 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:39:30 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1759.1128785535.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>	<Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1><mailman.1758.1128782947.509.python-list@python.org>	<E9SdnYjL06y1fNreRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1759.1128785535.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1_WdnUc73sXUddre4p2dnA@telenor.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
<snip>
>>k1 = fibonacci(100)
>>k2 = fibonacci(idx = 100)
<snip>
> whoever writes code like that deserves to be punished.
> 
> I'd say this thread points to a misunderstanding of what keyword arguments
> are, and how they should be used.  the basic rule is that you shouldn't mix and
> match; use positional arguments for things that are documented to be positional
<snip>

I agree completely.
However, it turns out I have to communicate code with and from people 
that have a coding standard that dictates using keyword arguments for 
all interfaces. Those functions will also benefit from the cache system 
as many of them involves database lookups.

In any case, your response gave me another thing that my solution won't 
handle so I'm going to just leave it as it is and look at it if I ever 
need it for positional arguments, which I honestly don't believe I will.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct  4 13:40:23 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:40:23 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-A6C25D.10182404102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <4342bd9a.3192006743@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:18:24 -0700, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
[...]
>In the functional language approach I'm familiar with, you
>introduce a variable into a scope with a bind -
>
>   let a = expr in
>       ... do something with a
>
>and initialization is part of the package.  Type is usually
>inferred.  The kicker though is that the variable is never
>reassigned. In the ideal case it's essentially an alias for
>the initializing expression.  That's one possibility we can
>probably not find in Python's universe.
>
how would you compare that with
    lambda a=expr: ... do something (limited to expression) with a
?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From christian.siegl at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 10:25:04 2005
From: christian.siegl at gmail.com (christian.siegl at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 07:25:04 -0700
Subject: How to delete yourself????
Message-ID: <1129299904.130287.287680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,


I got a problem deleting objects, which are placed in a hirarchy....

Asume we have the following code:
########################################################
class parent:

    MyChilds = [] # this list is filled with childs....

    def AddChild(self, child):
        # add childs here, however this is done, it's not the point...
        child.MyParent = self

    def RemoveChild(self, child):
        # delete child from the list.... the way this is done is not
our
        # problem here


class child:

    MyParent = 0

    def deleteMe(self):
        MyParent.RemoveChild(self)
##############################################################

So my code looks something like that.... and it works. I works because
you do not touch any member variables in class child after deleting
it... But is this nice code??? Is there another way to delete
yourself???

Thanks for any comments...
Chris



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct  5 12:52:47 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 16:52:47 GMT
Subject: updating local()
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96E6B5E7BA6F6duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Flavio wrote:
> Can anyone tell me why, if the following code works, I should not do
> this?
> 
> #
> # Extending Local namespace
> #
> 
> def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):
> 
>      print 'locals:',locals()
>      locals().update(args)
>      print locals()
> 
> e = {'s':3,'e':4}
> fun(k=10,v=32,**e)
> 
Because if all you want is to update a dictionary you might as well use 
another dictionary which isn't locals(). If what you want is to update the 
local variables, that won't work:

>>> def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):
        s = 1
	print 'locals:',locals()
	locals().update(args)
	print locals()
	print s, e

	
>>> e = {'s':3,'e':4}
>>> fun(k=10,v=32,**e)
locals: {'a': 1, 's': 1, 'args': {'s': 3, 'e': 4, 'k': 10, 'v': 32}, 'b': 
2}
{'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'e': 4, 'k': 10, 'args': {'s': 3, 'e': 4, 'k': 10, 'v': 
32}, 's': 1, 'v': 32}
1 {'s': 3, 'e': 4}
>>> 

Note that k, v, and e are added to the locals dictionary, but real local 
variables such as 's' are not updated. Also you cannot access k, v, and e 
as local variables within the function, if you try you get the global 
variables (if they exist).

Also, this behaviour is undefined. Different versions of Python will behave 
differently, and even minor code changes can change the behaviour. With 
this version, 's' still doesn't update, but we can now access the 'e' value 
as a variable:

>>> def fun(a=1,b=2,**args):
        s = 1
	print 'locals:',locals()
	locals().update(args)
	print locals()
	exec "print 'hi'"
	print s,e

	
>>> fun(k=10,v=32,**e)
locals: {'a': 1, 's': 1, 'args': {'s': 3, 'e': 4, 'k': 10, 'v': 32}, 'b': 
2}
{'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'e': 4, 'k': 10, 'args': {'s': 3, 'e': 4, 'k': 10, 'v': 
32}, 's': 1, 'v': 32}
hi
1 4
>>> 

Short answer: don't even think of trying to update locals().


From barnesc at engr.orst.edu  Fri Oct  7 09:11:35 2005
From: barnesc at engr.orst.edu (barnesc at engr.orst.edu)
Date: Fri,  7 Oct 2005 06:11:35 -0700
Subject: Python recipes: list mixin, improved timeit, etc
Message-ID: <1128690695.43467407e8746@webmail.oregonstate.edu>


>So mixins are just a sub-class [pun intended] of sub-classing?
>
>I've just found this:
>
>[quote]
>A mixin class is a parent class that is inherited from - but not as
>a means of specialization. Typically, the mixin will export services to a
>child class, but no semantics will be implied about the child "being a
>kind of" the parent.
>[end quote]
>
>from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MixIn
>
>Is that all they are?
>
>It is amazing how you can take the simplest concept, and by using
>appropriate terminology, make it as confusing and opaque as you want...
>
>*wink*
>

"A mixin is an atomic unit in an object-oriented language that adds
functionality to another class."

 - http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flex/1/mixin/
   mixin2.html#118542

The only experience I've had with mixins is in Python, where
UserDict has a class DictMixin that defines the full dictionary
interface from a minimal subset of dictionary methods.

The Python docs don't define mixin.  I just assumed this was a case
where a programmer needed a name more descriptive than foo, so he
called it mixin, and that stuck.  :)

 - Connelly Barnes


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Oct 10 19:47:35 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:47:35 -0700
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
	<p90jk1tspllkptk5q0jsag7gjo0fhb1aj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1128988055.798016.147970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> I'd consider that BASIC to be a fully interpreted language, as the
> tokens are still a one-for-one equivalence of the source code. Python,
> UCSD, and Java are not one-for-one, so on that basis, they fit the
> definition of a compiled language...

That's an interesting definition which at least attempts to consider
the issue from a perspective other than that which is concerned with
whether hardware is in use, what kind of hardware, and so on.

> The difficulty is that the target architecture in not realized in hardware.

Or isn't perhaps feasible/viable for hardware realisation: one of the
EuroPython speakers dangled the promise of hardware support for
high-level languages (the classic "Python on a chip" concept), but
there are probably plenty of areas where hardware support can assist
software virtual machines without going to all the trouble of
implementing such virtual machines in hardware completely.

> And then... I believe the PowerPC chipset emulated the 680xx instruction set, didn't it?

There may have been some architectural overlap between PowerPC and
M68K, but the PowerMacintosh computers used dynamic
recompilation/translation software to execute legacy applications.

In the case of CPython, the principal technological factor in
determining how "interpreted" it is seems to be the complexity of the
bytecode instructions, and I believe some work was done to investigate
other instructions that might improve performance [2]. Were the most
complex instructions replaced with simpler ones, a more performant
implementation might be possible, although the work required to
translate programs to such a simplified instruction set is very
difficult indeed.

On the subject of other virtual machine implementations, I wonder what
happened to this one:

http://effbot.org/zone/pytte.htm

Fredrik? ;-)

Paul

[1] Theo F. de Ridder, "Enabling bare Python as universal connector for
ad-hoc networks":
http://www.python-in-business.org/ep2005/download.cpy?document=8912
(warning: huge presentation!)
[2] Brett Cannon, "Localized Type Inference of Atomic Types in Python":
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bac/thesis.pdf



From ben at wintersun.org  Fri Oct 14 23:59:41 2005
From: ben at wintersun.org (Ben Caradoc-Davies)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:59:41 +0800
Subject: Reading IEEE 754 format strings directly into a floating point
	array
In-Reply-To: <435075e5$0$54633$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <435075e5$0$54633$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <43507eae$0$13914$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Madhusudan Singh wrote:
> The values are returned as IEEE format binary floating point numbers. There
> are 4 bytes per point. Multiple points are not separated by any delimiter.
> Is it possible to read these directly into a floating point array of the
> size of the string ?

Consider using the struct module from the standard library, with format 
"f". It also allows you to specify endianness in a platform-independent 
manner, and for mixed formats, supports standard and native alignment.

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-struct.html

You have a string of length 4*n, so make a format with (for example) 
">"+"f"*n, and struct.unpack will return a tuple of length n.

For large volumes of data, the array module may be more useful (as 
someone else has already noted).

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben at wintersun.org>
http://wintersun.org/
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."
- Abraham Lincoln


From jim.eggleston at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 21:27:16 2005
From: jim.eggleston at gmail.com (jim.eggleston at gmail.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 18:27:16 -0700
Subject: Automatically creating a HOME environ variable on Windows?
Message-ID: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Windows doesn't have a HOME environment variable, but it does have
HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH. Could Windows versions of Python automatically
populate os.environ with HOME, where HOME =
os.path.join(os.environ['HOMEDRIVE'], os.environ['HOMEPATH'])?

If this was done, then modules such as pdb, which load resource files
from HOME, would work under Windows.

Alternatively, here is a patch to make pdb.py read .pdbrc under
Windows.

*** pdb_orig.py Mon Jun 16 01:26:30 2003
--- pdb.py      Sat Oct 29 11:11:07 2005
***************
*** 65,72 ****
--- 65,76 ----

          # Read $HOME/.pdbrc and ./.pdbrc
          self.rcLines = []
+         envHome = ''
          if 'HOME' in os.environ:
              envHome = os.environ['HOME']
+         elif 'HOMEDRIVE' in os.environ and 'HOMEPATH' in os.environ:
+             envHome = os.path.join(os.environ['HOMEDRIVE'],
os.environ['HOMEPATH'])
+         if envHome:
              try:
                  rcFile = open(os.path.join(envHome, ".pdbrc"))
              except IOError:



From UrsusMaximus at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 18:15:26 2005
From: UrsusMaximus at gmail.com (UrsusMaximus at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 15:15:26 -0700
Subject: ANN: Beginning Python (Practical Python 2.0)
In-Reply-To: <slrndlchfi.kor.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrndlchfi.kor.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <1129846526.743586.250430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

I found this book at my local Border's this week. It appears to be a
most excellent book. I own and have read Magnus' earlier book "Pactical
Python" (which was excellent) but this one is even better. The first
half of the book covers the language, and then the second half goes
into depth developing several practical applications. And of course now
the book is very up to date. While I obviously have not had time to
really study this book, I believe that anyone looking for an
introduction to Python would be very hard pressed to find a better
choice than this book.

Ron Stephens
Python411 podcast sereis
http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html



From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 06:39:37 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:39:37 GMT
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <87zmopnco7.fsf@linux.site>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<k5n9f.25549$m%6.23439@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<87zmopnco7.fsf@linux.site>
Message-ID: <Znn9f.25791$m%6.22797@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Alex Hunsley <lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> writes:
> 
> 
>>Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I should have said is that I don't like the
>>idea of a typo in an assignment causing the assigning of the wrong thing.
>>e.g. imagine a simple value-holding class:
>>
>>class Values:
>>	pass
>>
>>v = Values()
>>
>>v.conductoin = 10
>>
>>
>>... I meant to type 'conduction' in the source but spelt it wrong.
>>My value won't be there when elsewhere I refer to the correct attribute:
>>"conduction".
> 
> 
> Recently there was a big thread where that was raised again (yep, you're not
> the first, nor the second, nor the third...).  You should write unittests, use
> tools like pychecker, pylint, etc. 

Yup, I'm plannig on using pyunit. Didn't know about pychecker though, 
thanks for that!


From mhardas at kent.edu  Thu Oct 13 00:04:19 2005
From: mhardas at kent.edu (mhardas at kent.edu)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:04:19 -0700
Subject: ImportError: No module named dbm
Message-ID: <a9973ea97fa7.a97fa7a9973e@kent.edu>

Hi all, 
Iam trying to get 'cvs2svn' to get to work on a Trustix Linux machine. 
However is suspect that no dbm is installed because running cvs2svn 
gives the following error:

ERROR: your installation of Python does not contain a suitable
DBM module -- cvs2svn cannot continue.
See http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-anydbm.html to solve.

So I ran test for the dbm installation and got the following, 

root at drbn /usr/local/lib/python2.3/test# python test_dbm.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_dbm.py", line 7, in ?
    import dbm
ImportError: No module named dbm

Can you tell me how do I go about getting the dbm module and install 
it.??

Thanks again.

Manas. 



From tim at tt1lock.org  Sun Oct  9 09:58:41 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:58:41 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>
	<86psqfmukd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sghhk1hcom1adf7ic99j253bks1j54iqs4@4ax.com>
	<864q7rm1cb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Io3Itt.592@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> > On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:56:50 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote

> >>Show us *examples*! Do you create a style sheet for every site you
> >>visit that overrides there classes? What?
> >
> > Why don't you download a copy of Opera, see
> > http://mindprod.com/jgloss/opera.html
> 
> What makes you think I don't have a copy of Opera? Just so happens
> I've got a registred copy on my newest computer.
> 
> > Then try out the feature.  Click View | style | user
> 
> My copy of Opera doesn't have that menu entry. I suspect you're making
> platform-specific suggestions.
> 
> Trying it on a different platform, it looks like it does what I said
> earlier: user mode simply disables the authors style sheets. None of
> the "merging" you suggested was going on is actually happening.

The "user mode" uses style sheets you specify.

There's a whole bunch of built-in ones - and you can cascade them:

``User style sheets

``There is also the inclusion of 12 packaged user style sheets and an easy 
  menu application interface (View > Style). These sheets can be cascaded 
  together, with or without the page's styles. They are mostly for 
  accessibility, accessible web design and plain coolness: Emulate text 
  browser, Nostalgia, Accessibility Layout, Show images and links only, 
  High contrast, Hide non-linking images, Disable tables and Use default 
  forms design.

  There are also three style sheets that are worth mentioning specially: 
  Hide certain-sized elements, Debug with outline, and Show structural 
  elements. Hide certain-sized elements is basically that CSS-powered 
  inline ad-killer that Eric A. Meyer came up with a few years ago. Debug 
  with outline uses the newly added support for the "outline" property to 
  display key elements. Finally, Show structural elements, which with the 
  acrobatic use of generated content, attribute selectors and counters, 
  shows the HTML tags inline, as well as the meta and link data, and a 
  report on the number of font tags and nested tables. Now this is cool!''

 - http://www.evolt.org/article/Opera_7_Released/1/54851/
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From stijndesaeger at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:38:25 2005
From: stijndesaeger at gmail.com (vdrab)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 03:38:25 -0700
Subject: pywordnet install problems
In-Reply-To: <itCdnaH41d9fx9zeRVn-iw@comcast.com>
References: <1128057470.285356.211160@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<qsudnbksifzcxaDeRVn-jg@comcast.com>
	<1128163605.623632.96660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<itCdnaH41d9fx9zeRVn-iw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1128422305.423501.305420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, I already figured it out a few days ago.

In the wordnet.py file, just override the path (WNHOME and/or WNSEARCH)
to the wordnet 2.0directory that has the lexnames files etc... (on my
ubuntu box: '/usr/share/wordnet')
That seems to fix it, although python gives a few warnings at startup.
checking the web it seems this is a known issue.
Thanks for the help though... I didn't bother posting the solution as I
thought noone was interested anymore. 

cheers,
vdrab.



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:46:25 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:46:25 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<20i1m19cup3s8hb4ikqti1monvtf9nb3dv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqi72$5vc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    Well shit, how surprising that they wouldn't want to do business
>> with you if you broke your agreements with them.

> I am going to summarise this then drop out. My blood pressure is at a
> boil.

> I was a computer retailer. We built custom computers. I had 8 people
> working for me.  This was in the time prior to Win95 when IBM had a
> clearly technically superior solution with OS/2 to MS's Windows 3.1

> I had no contract of any kind with MS.  I never bought anything from
> them directly. I was far too small a fish.  I bought the components
> including software through dozens of wholesale suppliers.

> MS threatened to put any retailer out of business who would not
> co-operate with them in extorting money from people who had no use for
> MS Windows who explicitly for various reasons did not want to buy MS
> windows.

    No, MS decided only to sell Windows to essentially Windows-only shops.

> To me that is no different from a popsicle manufacturer demanding I
> sell $200 popsicles with every machine I sold. The machines needed MS
> Windows no more than they needed a popsicle.

    You could have complied with their requests by selling computers only 
with Windows installed. That is, by only selling Windows PCs. All Microsoft 
was saying was "sell only our products or don't sell our products". This is 
a perfectly, normal typical franchise arrangement.

    You can't sell Whoppers and also sell any competing burgers that aren't 
Burger King branded.

> The particular way MS threatened to put me out of business was by
> threatening to arm twist all wholesalers to refuse to sell MS product
> to me, which any retailer needed to survive in those days.

    Right, I get that. You owed your entire business to Microsoft. Without 
their products, you would have had nothing, by your own admission. The way 
you repay them is by trying to screw them -- attract people who come in only 
because you offer Windows and then say "here's an OS that's better and 
cheaper".

> It was obviously quasi legal or the threats would have had paper to
> back them up so I could go to court now to sue the fuckers.

    It's perfectly legal and normal (for non-monopoly products). What do you 
have to agree to in order to purchase OSX wholesale? What do you have to 
agree to in order to purchase Solaris wholesale?

    Honestly, I don't understand why you're so worked up and ballistic about 
a perfectly typical franchisee/authorized reseller agreement.

    Microsoft could have refused to sell you Windows wholesale completely. 
That would have meant no business for you at all. In exchange for making 
your business possible, all they ask is you don't steer the customers you 
have only because of them to their competitors.

    DS




From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 11 20:21:39 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:21:39 +0200
Subject: Looking for info on Python's memory allocation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1915.1129056090.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <434B1A99.8040107@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au><slrndkmo1c.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org><dig094$ntj$1@domitilla.aioe.org><pan.2005.10.11.14.20.08.619909@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<1h4a55d.cdmdgr1udkvayN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<mailman.1915.1129056090.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <434C5713.2060104@v.loewis.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>>>>I = iter(L)
>>>>I
> 
> <listiterator object at 0x0091ABD0>
> 
>>>>len(I)
> 
> 3
[...]
> (it's probably not a good idea to rely on this behaviour...)

I believe this has been classified as a bug in Python 2.4, which
will be undone in Python 2.5.

Regards,
Martin


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 22:08:44 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 02:08:44 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<g0h8l15n5f0ijlgiopu052ti3t02u5sg6f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2D7191D3CCcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 17 Oct 2005 03:17:16 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>Which standards? Again: w3c is not an official standards organization.
> 
> What does it take in your book for a standards organisation to be
> "official"  -- a Swiss head office, a room at the UN, a branch on the
> US government tree?
 
Being recognized as one by other standards organizations? Otherwise I can 
start my own tomorrow.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From mynewsa at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 22:35:37 2005
From: mynewsa at gmail.com (Amol Vaidya)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:35:37 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
Message-ID: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>

Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have been 
debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. How do these compare and contrast 
with one another, and what advantages does one language provide over the 
other? I would like to consider as many opinions as I can on this matter 
before I start studying either language in depth. Any help/comments are 
greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. 




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Oct 13 20:04:15 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:04:15 -0700
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <87mzldkmip.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<87mzldkmip.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20051014000415.GA22421@ActiveState.com>

[John J. Lee wrote]
> 4. There's a registry key for tab completion somewhere...

Search for "CompletionChar" and change it to 9.

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/2000/server/reskit/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/2000/server/reskit/en-us/regentry/34995.asp


Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com


From cs at totallybogus.com.invalid  Fri Oct 14 14:08:51 2005
From: cs at totallybogus.com.invalid (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:08:51 -0500
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051014170644.1803.75237.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
Message-ID: <1129313331_3115@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


> I'm not 100% sure but I think that they could work. 
>
> The only thing is changed is the outgoing articles format, 
> so if you have article in the oubox delete them
>
>>   Can I install the newer xpn version
>>   and move the older data files into it
>>   without reconfiguring & reloading data files ? 
>>  
>>       o config.txt
>>       o server_logs.dat
>>       o dats 
>>       o groups_info
>>       o groups_list
>
> It should work, anyway just make a copy of these files 
> to be sure not to lose them.
>

  I'll give it a try later today 
  & let you know how it turns out ....

  Thanks .... 


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From darkpaladin79 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 11:13:04 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at gmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:13:04 -0400
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
In-Reply-To: <7qCdnSkPd-wwFtLeRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch> <7qCdnSkPd-wwFtLeRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <17d4ae400510150813p428f0a69kf710ec48552eb84@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/14/05, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
> Christian Stapfer wrote:
> > 0.0. ... and add an item to your SendTo folder that allows
> > you to have Windows Explorer open a terminal window with its
> > current directory set to the currently displayed folder
> > (= "Open terminal here").
>
> Or install the "Command Prompt Here" gadget that MS produces, which has
> a massive installer and a click-through license thing and everything,
> just to open a freakin' prompt at a given directory
>
> -Peter
>
>
> There's an excellent windows registry edit to open a command prompt at the
given directory that I've been using. . .Here's a link.

http://www.winguides.com/registry/display.php/260/

Hope that helps,
-Ivan
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From grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 20:09:19 2005
From: grig.gheorghiu at gmail.com (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 17:09:19 -0700
Subject: Simulating low bandwidth network on localhost
In-Reply-To: <1128728893.814798.44050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128728893.814798.44050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128730159.465804.275010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Try dummynet (<http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ip_dummynet/> and/or
Google for it)

Grig



From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 16:26:10 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:26:10 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <86zmox2vj1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Not Bill Gates <nbg at nbg.invalid> writes:
> steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au wrote...
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:
>> > Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  
>> You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
>> the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?
> You need to first prove innovation in desktop software has been 
> crippled, don't you?

MS took desktop software through pretty much the same sequence of
offerings that the mainframe and minicomputer software industry had
been throgh: flat file systems and single-tasking OS's in a command
line environment, adding nested file systems, adding TSRs, adding a
windowing environment, adding true multitasking and finally
multiprocessor systems. This took them what - 20+ years?

While MS was "innovating" by giving us directories, others who had
learned the lessons from mainframe and minicomputer systems were
offering us desktop systems with all those features - and an office
suite that ran in the windowing systems - for a fraction of the price
of anything that was capable of running MS-DOS.

MS managed to kill off or drive into niche markets the companies who
were actually doing innovative work on desktop systems, and it's taken
the desktop software industry two decades to recover from that. I'll
accept that as crippling until a better definition comes along.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Mon Oct  3 14:28:59 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (M.N.A.Smadi)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:28:59 -0400
Subject: python getopt functionality
Message-ID: <4341786B.1030901@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

hi;

I have a perl script that I need to port to python. The script takes 
input from the command line.  Is there a standard way of processing 
command line arguments based on the -flag preceeding the argument?

thanks
moe smadi


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct 12 18:49:34 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:49:34 +0200
Subject: python server?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1895.1129034302.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1895.1129034302.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3r5i7vFi1drtU1@uni-berlin.de>

> I was wondering if something similar already existed, to use as-is or
> to adapt to my needs.
> I did a little googling, which pointed me to interesting, but rather
> different projects. Has anybody ever seen or heard something of this
> kind? Or maybe there is something almost-ready in the amazing python
> library (as you understand, I am rather new to python), and I missed
> it?

Mabybe pyro helps you - it'S pure python, and makes working with remote 
objects pretty transparent.

Diez


From darkbard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 09:06:20 2005
From: darkbard at gmail.com (Gabriele *darkbard* Farina)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 06:06:20 -0700
Subject: Adding methods to an object
Message-ID: <1129208780.605763.218110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi, there is a way to add methods to an object dynamically? I need to
do something like this. I remember python allowed this ...

class A(object):
 def do(s, m):
  print m

 @staticmethod
 def init(obj):
  obj.do = A.do

class Test(object):
 pass

o = Test()
A.init(o)

o.do(10)

Now it gives me an error ... unbound method ...

tnx, gabriele



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 14:42:43 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:42:43 +0200
Subject: Raw string fu
References: <1130350167.20384.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <djoin5$5ds$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joshua Ginsberg wrote:

> >>> r'\'
> File "<stdin>", line 1
> r'\'
> ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
> >>> r'\\'
> '\\\\'
>
> Does that seem wrong to anybody else? Shouldn't the first one be
> syntactically correct?

the "r" prefix doesn't change how string literals are parsed; it only affects
how they are converted to string objects.

</F>





From listspam at flowtheory.net  Wed Oct 26 14:09:27 2005
From: listspam at flowtheory.net (Joshua Ginsberg)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:09:27 -0400
Subject: Raw string fu
Message-ID: <1130350167.20384.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

>>> r'\'
File "<stdin>", line 1
r'\'
^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>> r'\\'
'\\\\'

Does that seem wrong to anybody else? Shouldn't the first one be
syntactically correct?

-jag



From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 25 03:22:36 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:22:36 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlrlt2.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <djkmfs$2r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message 
news:slrndlrlt2.hdl.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be...

>>     I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary. I can walk 
>> up
>> to you and say "if you want me to mow your lawn, you must pay me $1 every
>> time you smoke a cigarette". So long as you can say "no" and all that
>> happens is that I don't mow your lawn (which I have no obligation to do
>> anyway), it isn't extortion.

> If you would happen to have a monopoly on the mowing business, which
> would make it very hard for me to have my lawn mowed unless I took
> your offer, it would be.

    Yes, but that's the "if". I have a monopoly on *me* mowing your lawn. 
You can, of course, go to someone else to have your lawn mowed. Microsoft 
only had a monopoly on *Microsoft* operating systems. Microsoft had no 
control over OSX, Linux, FreeBSD, and so on.

    Essentially, Microsoft asked for exclusive arrangements. That is, 
arrangements wherein you could not sell competing products if you wished to 
sell Microsoft products. That's not even remotely unusual.

    DS




From AddisonN at iti-ab.com  Wed Oct 12 12:33:00 2005
From: AddisonN at iti-ab.com (AddisonN at iti-ab.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:33:00 +0100
Subject: Scope problem with nested functions.
Message-ID: <9355218C54DDFF4CA43FC31AEB6FB0EC5B102C@iti00-exc01.iti.arabbank.plc>

I'm having trouble resolving a scope problem. I have a module, called
from another script, with this structure:
 
def parseFile(file, myLocation, defaults):
     # initialisation.
     ccyMappings = {}
 
     def getCcyMappings()
          global ccyMappings
          # read values into ccyMappings.
          ccyMappings['CAN'] = ['CAD'] # for example.
 
    def mapCcy(myCcy):
        if ccyMappings.has_key(myCcy):
            return ccyMapping['myCcy']
        else:
            return myCcy   
 
 
My problem is that, although the ccyMappings dictionary is populated
within the def getCcyMappings() function, the value goes to 'None' when
I leave it and so is not available when the mapCcy function is called.
I've used the global scope declaration successfully before, but not with
nested functions like this, admittedly.
 
Any assistance gratefully received.
 
Nick.
 
 
 


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From usgog at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 13:37:06 2005
From: usgog at yahoo.com (usgog at yahoo.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 10:37:06 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Now it works:
rex = re.compile(r'(^.*username *=[^"]*")([^"]*)(".*$)')
for line in fileinput.input(FILE, inplace=1):
     m = rex.match(line)
     if m is not None:
         line = "%s%s%s\n" % (m.group(1), new_name, m.group(3))
     print line

But there is an extra line break after each line in FILE. Why is that?
I tried to line = "%s%s%s" % (m.group(1), new_name, m.group(3)) but it
turns out there are two extra line breaks after each line...



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 31 05:51:44 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno at modulix)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:51:44 +0100
Subject: data hiding/namespace pollution
In-Reply-To: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <Hrm9f.25259$m%6.2020@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4365f743$0$9485$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Alex Hunsley wrote:
> There's no really specific questions in this post, but I'm looking for
> people's thought on the issues within...
> 
> 
> The two main versions I've encountered for data pseudo-hiding
> (encapsulation) 

<OT>
Hmmm... Are data-hiding and encapsulation really the same things ?
</OT>

> in python are:
> 
> method 1:
> 
> _X  - (single underscore) - just cosmetic, a convention to let someone
>       know that this data should be private.
> 
> 
> method 2:
> 
> __X - (double underscore) - mangles the name (in a predictable way).
>       Avoids name pollution.
> 
> 
> How often does either tend to get used? Personally, I'd be a little
> worried about using method 1, because namespace clashes could happen. Is
> this overly paranoid?

Probably.

Note that prefixing names with a single underscore have a 'protected'
semantic - which means that such names (well, the objects that are bound
to...) can be overriden/extends by child classes.

I personnally only use the double-underscore notation only for things
that are *really* implementation-specific *and* should *really not* be
overriden.

> 
> Also, I presume that rather than people writing their own manual getter
> and setter methods, they tend to use either overloading on __getattr__
> and __setattr__, or the Property class (which itself uses aforementioned
>  methods). 

Yeps... This is the pythonic way.

> Overloading __getattr__ etc. seems more attractive to me, as
> then I can capture access to unknown names, and raise an exception!
> (I really don't like the idea of random attribute name typos going
> unnoticed when accessing attributes in a class!)

Err... Have you *really* tried to access an inexistant attribute ?  This
is usually not 'unnoticed' (unless you consider the raising of an
AttributeError as being the same as 'unnoticed' !-)

I personnaly use 'magic' accessors only for delegation or like, and
properties (or custom descriptors) for anything else (that requires
it...). This avoid the Big-Switch-Syndrom in __getattr__ and setattr__,
and is much more explicit (API, documentation, introspection etc...).

> Note: I do know that the use of the above things is quite dependent on
> what exactly you're coding, the size of the project etc., but what I'm
> trying to find out about is the python communities' recognised good
> practices.

Then launch your python interactive shell and type "import this"

HTH
-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Oct 15 14:01:23 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 18:01:23 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <igm623-q95.ln1@news.heiming.de>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0847955C35castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Michael Heiming <michael+USENET at www.heiming.de> wrote:

> The only thing positive about M$ entering the market, probably
> due to their ineffective programming style they pushed Intel into
> producing pretty fast while cheapo CPUs.

Amazing, I thought Xah Lee was the only one able to fit so much BS in one 
sentence.

> Ironically exactly this
> is the key to Linux/*BSD success in the unix server market. ;)

Yeah, right. 

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 05:39:40 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:39:40 GMT
Subject: mixin helper class for unknown attribute access?
Message-ID: <Mvm9f.25313$m%6.18781@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

I know that I can catch access to unknown attributes with code something 
like the following:

class example:
      def __getattr__(self, name):
          if name == 'age':
              return __age
          else:
              raise AttributeError


but is there an existing mixin helper class in Python (or one someone 
has written) already that will assist with this? (Just not wanting to 
reinvent the wheel....)


From jramirez08063 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 06:35:01 2005
From: jramirez08063 at yahoo.com (Pepe Pena)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 03:35:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Load PDF
Message-ID: <20051003103501.50007.qmail@web35011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,
 
I am attempting to load a pdf file programatically within Adobe Reader using the Adobe Acrobat 7.0 Browser Control Type Library.  If I run this code PythonWin terminates abruptly, can anyone suggest any changes I should make to the following lines of code, thanks.
 
import win32com.client
test = win32com.client.Dispatch("AcroPDF.PDF.1")
test.LoadFile("D:\\sql.pdf")



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Oct  7 17:51:14 2005
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:51:14 -0400
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British	accent"...
In-Reply-To: <11kdpab4l7i7ecb@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.07.11.24.35.332458@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1725.1128718388.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdpab4l7i7ecb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20051007215114.GM6255@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 09:14:51PM -0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> 
> > Of course, just to keep y'all on your toes, we Texans have not only
> > construed "their" to singular, but also "you", and added a new
> > plural "y'all".
> 
> AFAICT, in many parts of "The South", y'all is now used in the
> singular (e.g. "y'all" is used when addressing a single
> person), and "all y'all" is the plural form used when
> addressing a group of people collectively.
> 
"What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people?"
http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_50.html
A map from a US dialect survey.  Click around for many more questions.

The question was a bit broken, it did not list "all y'all" and its
most glaring omission was "yous guys"  The Philly responders selected
the next best option of "yous"

It is a bit odd that You'uns, yins, and yous are confined to Pennsylvania
and very distinct east-west regions inside PA at that (Pittsburgh vs
Philly orbits).

-jack



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 10 03:17:36 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:17:36 +0100
Subject: Python on the Power PC
In-Reply-To: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <Ysm2f.269$fG4.1725@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <did4ic$c23$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Milliken wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I (think I have :-)) installed Python on my Pocket PC (obtained from
> http://fore.validus.com/~kashtan/).
> 
> There were Tkinter binaries with it so I installed those as well. When I
> attempt to run the most simplistic of python programs using Tkinter, I get
> an error message stating that Python can't find any tkinter module.
> 
> Any ideas what I have done wrong anybody?
> 
> Thanks
> Peter
> 
> import Tkinter
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>   root = Tkinter.Tk()
> 
>   root.title('Hello World?')
> 
>   root.mainloop()
> 
> 
Are you sure it didn't say "_tkinter" was what it couldn't find?

On my Windows system the Tkinter.py file tries to import an extension 
(compiled C) module called _tkinter (provided as _tkinter.dll) that 
provides the low-level Tkinter functionality. It's likely that that's 
missing.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Oct 27 11:00:57 2005
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:00:57 -0700
Subject: handling ExpatError exception raised from ElementTree.XML() method
References: <1130386520.772048.117530@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130425257.683957.130440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

mirandacasc... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> NameError: name 'ExpatError' is not defined
>
> I'm guessing that I need to define/describe the ExpatError exception
> class and then refer to that defined exception class after the keyword
> 'except' and before the ':', but I cannot figure out how to do that.

You just need to know how to reference ExpatError yourself. Doing a
grep on the site-packages directory revealed that the most likely
location of the ExpatError class is xml.parsers.expat. So, first you
need to import that package:

import xml.parsers.expat

Then, you can refer to the class as an attribute of that package.
Alternatively...

from xml.parsers.expat import ExpatError

...lets you use the name directly.

I think that it can be useful when making a library to make common
exception classes attributes of certain principal classes/objects, in
order to simplify this kind of situation and to avoid the need to find
the originating module of some exception or other.

Paul



From *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com  Mon Oct 17 23:11:20 2005
From: *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com (Tony Nelson)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:11:20 GMT
Subject: Mutual module imports
Message-ID: <*firstname*nlsnews-B5E898.23113017102005@news.verizon.net>

How does one normally make a Python extension module that has some parts 
in Python and some functions in C share globals between the Python and C 
functions?  Will that approach work with Pyrex?

I have written a Python module that uses some C functions.  I wrote the 
module in two parts, one Python, one Pyrex (C).  They need to share some 
globals.  (I use pyrex to handle ref counting.  I think I'm glad I did.)

At first they just sort of mutually imported each other, and it worked 
until I put tests in the Python one and set it up to run them when it is 
named "__main__".  What happened reminded me that there are also other 
ways modules can be imported under different names, so I tried a 
different approach.

Now the Python module imports the Pyrex module and just shoves 
references to its globals into the Pyrex module (the Pyrex module 
defines them as None).  The Pyrex module doesn't import the Python 
module anymore.  This also works, even when the Python module has a 
different name (e.g. "__main__").  I just feel dirty about it.
________________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                        *firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com
      '                                  <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>


From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 16 06:24:08 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:24:08 GMT
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Christian Stapfer wrote:

> This discussion begins to sound like the recurring
> arguments one hears between theoretical and
> experimental physicists. Experimentalists tend
> to overrate the importance of experimental data
> (setting up a useful experiment, how to interpret
> the experimental data one then gathers, and whether
> one stands any chance of detecting systematic errors
> of measurement, all depend on having a good *theory*
> in the first place). Theoreticians, on the other hand,
> tend to overrate the importance of the coherence of
> theories. In truth, *both* are needed: good theories
> *and* carefully collected experimental data.
> 
> Regards,
> Christian

An interesting parallel can be made concerning management of production 
vs management of creativity.

In general, production needs checks and feedback to insure quality, but 
will often come to a stand still if incomplete resources are available.

Where as creativity needs checks to insure production, but in many cases 
can still be productive even with incomplete or questionable resources. 
  The quality may very quite a bit in both directions, but in creative 
tasks, that is to be expected.

In many ways programmers are a mixture of these two.  I think I and 
Steven use a style that is closer to the creative approach. I get the 
feeling your background may be closer to the production style.

Both are good and needed for different types of tasks. And I think most 
programmers can switch styles to some degree if they need to.

Cheers,
    Ron



From vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 04:49:04 2005
From: vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com (vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 01:49:04 -0700
Subject: Looping Problem (Generating files - only the last record generates a
	file)
Message-ID: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello All,

I have a problem with the program that should generate x number of txt
files (x is the number of records in the file datafile.txt).

Once I execute the program (see below) only one file (instead of x
files) is created. The file created is based on the last record in
datafile.txt.

The program is as follows:
====================================
#!  python

HEADER = "This page displays longitude-latitude information"
SUBHEADER = "City"

for line in open("datafile.txt"):


    town, latlong = line.split('\t')

f = open(town + ".txt", "w+")

f.write(HEADER + "\n")
f.write(SUBHEADER + ": " + town + "\n")
f.write("LAT/LONG" + ": " + latlong + "\n")
f.close()


# end
====================================




The datafile.txt is as follows (tab separated columns):
====================================

NYC	1111-2222
Lima	3333-4444
Rome	5555-6666

====================================

Once executed, the program will create a single file (named Rome.txt)
and it would not create files NYC.txt and Lima.txt as I would expect it
to do.

I'd appreciate if you can pinpoint my error. 

Best, 

Vasa



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct 15 04:51:41 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:51:41 +0200
Subject: Problem splitting a string
References: <mailman.2102.1129351930.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.15.07.47.24.278124@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h4gzgc.er0q43111v2w5N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
   ...
> You can *almost* do that as a one-liner:

No 'almost' about it...

> L2 = [item.split('_') for item in mystr.split()]
> 
> except that gives a list like this:
> 
> [['this', 'NP'], ['is', 'VL'], ['funny', 'JJ']]
> 
> which needs flattening. 

....because the flattening is easy:

[ x for x in y.split('_') for y in z.split(' ') ]


Alex


From rrr at ronadam.com  Thu Oct  6 16:44:42 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:44:42 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1631.1128627315.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com><R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com><ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com><4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net><1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews><slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au><slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com><slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><6xO0f.166857$p_1.72982@tornado.tampabay.rr.com><4344c53e.3325034196@news.oz.net>	<EJe1f.534$ae.439@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.1631.1128627315.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_0g1f.135529$xl6.20871@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Ron Adam wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there a way to conditionally decorate?  For example if __debug__ is
>>True, but not if it's False?  I think I've asked this question before. (?)
> 
> 
> the decorator is a callable, so you can simply do, say
> 
>     from somewhere import debugdecorator
> 
>     if not __debug__:
>         debugdecorator = lambda x: x

Ah... thanks.

I suppose after(if) lambda is removed it would need to be.

    def nulldecorator(f):
        return f

    if not __debug__:
       debugdecorator = nulldecorator


> or
> 
>     def debugdecorator(func):
>         if __debug__:
>             ...
>         else:
>             return func
> 
> etc.

This one came to mind right after I posted.  :-)


> </F> 






From skip at pobox.com  Fri Oct 21 10:39:37 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:39:37 -0500
Subject: python and outlook
In-Reply-To: <dj9og9$uub$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <dj9og9$uub$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <17240.64937.550731.289790@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    dt> Are there any links or sites on how to read outlook mail boxes or
    dt> address book?

Check the Outlook plugin code in SpamBayes <http://www.spambayes.org/>.

Skip


From jason.lai at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 09:17:02 2005
From: jason.lai at gmail.com (Jason  Lai)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 06:17:02 -0700
Subject: C replacement for Queue module
In-Reply-To: <bfGdnTXGf-tbkcfeRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
References: <1129934643.874242.37150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<bfGdnTXGf-tbkcfeRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129987022.064904.84510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

As far as Queues go, the adding/popping is apparently done with deque
which are implemented in C. The Queue class pretty much just provides
blocking operations and is otherwise a very thin layer around deque. As
far as primitives go, only threading.Lock is written in C and the
others are pure Python, so they're not that fast, which might be a
reason for Queue's slowness.

As far as writing a custom C module, you could probably leave most of
the work to deque and just implement blocking. If you stick to a simple
lock primative, you can keep it portable and use Python's abstracted
thread interface with an amazing choice of two whole functions: acquire
and release.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Oct  7 03:57:28 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:57:28 +0200
Subject: PyObject_New
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1647.1128651699.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1647.1128651699.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43462a69$0$6776$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Jeremy Moles wrote:
> 	PyObject* obj = _PyObject_New(&PyType_MyType);
> 	obj = PyObject_Init(obj, &PyType_MyType);
> 	
> 	...
> 
> 	return obj;

The call to PyObject_Init is redundant: _PyObject_New
is malloc+init. However, this shouldn't cause any crashes (except in the
debug build). PyObject_Init is documented as

Initialize a newly-allocated object op with its type and initial 
reference. Returns the initialized object. If type  indicates that the 
object participates in the cyclic garbage detector, it is added to the 
detector's set of observed objects. Other fields of the object are not 
affected.

[I don't know where the mentioning of GC comes from - it appears to be
  incorrect]

> When "obj" gets back to the interpreter, Python sees it (or rather, it's
> __repr__) in accordance with what it "should" be. However, any attempt
> to USE the object results in a segfault. I feel my problem is simply
> that I'm not allocating "obj" correctly in the C++ function.

It doesn't crash because of the allocation - this code is correct.
However, it is also incomplete: none of the state of the new object
gets initialized in the fragment you are showing. So it likely crashes
because the members of the object are stray pointers or some such,
and accessing them causes a crash.

Regards,
Martin


From tziade at nuxeo.com  Fri Oct 14 20:32:51 2005
From: tziade at nuxeo.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:32:51 +0200
Subject: machine-independant bench
Message-ID: <43504E33.6030209@nuxeo.com>

Hi list,

I am trying to code some utilities to bench code performances, 
machine-independant,
to be able to measure the absolute cost of a piece of code.

So i came up with the pystone idea (i've been told too in fact ;)).

so I just run pystones on the test machines and use it as a ratio over
 code performance measurement. This is pretty good, but the major caveat 
is that if the CPU is busy
, it can be slower than expected.

So i've introduced a tolerance flag, (another approach than the three 
times run like hotshot does).

Any comment ?

Any alternatives to pystone in mind ?

Tarek

-- 
Tarek Ziad? | Nuxeo R&D (Paris, France)
CPS Plateform : http://www.cps-project.org
mail: tziade at nuxeo.com | tel: +33 (0) 6 30 37 02 63
You need Zope 3 - http://www.z3lab.org/



From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 17 05:35:29 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:35:29 +0200
Subject: Question on class member in python
In-Reply-To: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43537063$0$4340$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Johnny Lee wrote:
> Class A:

s/C/c/

>    def __init__(self):
>       self.member = 1
> 
>    def getMember(self):
>       return self.member
> 
> a = A()
> 
> So, is there any difference between a.member and a.getMember? 

yes : a.member is an integer, a.getMember is a bound method. You could
have found this by yourself...

Note that the getter/setter plague is useless and unpythonic. Use
properties instead if you need to control attributes access. There are
decorator idioms to make clean and easy properties, look here:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonDecoratorLibrary


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 30 21:36:49 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:36:49 -0500
Subject: need  start point for getting html info from web
References: <1130724071.688187.59230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86br16bef2.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

nephish at xit.net writes:
> i have a small app that i am going to need to get information from a
> few tables on different websites. i have looked at urllib and httplib.
> the sites i need to get data from mostly have this data in tables. So
> that, i think would make it easier. Anyone suggest a good starting
> point for me to find out how to do this, or know of a link to a good
> how-to?

Don't have a link to a howto. But you're halfway there. urllib (and
urllib2) will get HTML text from the websites. Pulling data from it
sort of depends on the nature of the HTML. If it's well-structured
XHTML, you can use your favorite xml library. if it's well structured
HTML, you can try htmllib, but it's pretty primitive. If it's not
well-structured, you can use BeautifulSoup. I've used it to pull data
from tables. The problem with any of this is that your code really
depends on the structure - or lack thereof - of the HTML you're
scraping. If they change it, your code breaks.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From kylotan at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 06:28:04 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 03:28:04 -0700
Subject: Minimizing Connection reset by peer exceptions
In-Reply-To: <1129777447.614500.232050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129777447.614500.232050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129804084.245716.242040@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


mirandacascade at yahoo.com wrote:

> Occasionally (perhaps 5% of the time) the following exception gets
> raised:
>
> (10054, 'Connection reset by peer')

Generally this just means the connection has closed through some
unusual means, perhaps by being turned off, or a network cable being
unplugged, or a timeout along the way, etc. 5% is a high figure, but
perhaps you connect to hosts that are unreliable for some reason.

You don't have control over this really; just make sure you handle the
exception. Such is life, when dealing with networking.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From kent37 at tds.net  Thu Oct 13 08:02:13 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:02:13 -0400
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
In-Reply-To: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <434e4ae7$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

LenS wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Was wandering if there is any place where some one could go to get
> mentoring on python coding.  I have started coding in python but I am
> the only one in the shop  using it.  So there is no one around to look
> over my code give suggestions on improvement, in style, logic, easier
> ways of doing things etc.  

I second gene's recommendation of the python-tutor mailing list - we do all of the above as well as cheerfully answer all questions, give suggestions on how to do things, etc.

Kent


From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 31 14:39:31 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:39:31 -0500
Subject: Function returns none
In-Reply-To: <1130785944.632805.156810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130785944.632805.156810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <436670bb$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

noahlt at gmail.com wrote:
> I'm trying to write a website updating script, but when I run the
> script, my function to search the DOM tree returns None instead of what
> it should.

When you call findelement() recursively you have to return the value from the recursive call to the next caller up. See example below.

Kent

> 
> I have this program:
> --------
> import sys
> from xml.dom.minidom import parse
> 
> 
> # search the tree for an element with a particular class
> 
> def findelement(current, classtofind, topnode = None):
>     if topnode == None: topnode = current
> 
> 
> 
>     # if it's an xml element...
>     if current.nodeType == 1:
>         print current.nodeName, ':', current.getAttribute('class')
>         if current.getAttribute('class') == classtofind:
>             print 'Returning node:', current
>             return current
>         elif current.hasChildNodes():
>             findelement(current.firstChild, classtofind, topnode)

Should be
  return findelement(current.firstChild, classtofind, topnode)
and similarly wherever you call findelement().

>         elif current.nextSibling:
>             findelement(current.nextSibling, classtofind, topnode)
> 
>         elif (current.parentNode != topnode) \
> 
>                  and (current.parentNode.nextSibling != None):
> 
>             findelement(current.parentNode.nextSibling, classtofind,
> topnode)
>         else:
> 
>             print 'Returning None...'
> 
>             return None
> 
>     # others (text, comment, etc)
> 
>     else:
> 
>         if current.nextSibling:
> 
>             findelement(current.nextSibling, classtofind, topnode)
> 
>         elif (current.parentNode != topnode) \
> 
>                  and (current.parentNode.nextSibling != None):
> 
>             findelement(current.parentNode.nextSibling, classtofind,
> topnode)
>         else:
> 
>             print 'Returning None...'
> 
>             return None
> 
> 
> 
> # parse the document
> 
> blog = parse('/home/noah/dev/blog/template.html')
> 
> 
> 
> # find a post
> 
> postexample = findelement(blog.documentElement, 'post')
> 
> 
> 
> print 'Got node:       ', postexample
> 
> -----
> 
> My output is this:
> 
> -----
> html :
> head :
> title :
> body :
> h1 :
> ul :
> li :
> h2 :
> ol :
> li : post
> Returning node: <DOM Element: li at -0x48599c74>
> Got node:        None
> -----
> 
> The function finds the right element fine, and says it will return <DOM
> Element: li at -0x48599c74>, but the program gets None instead.  What's
> happening here?  Any suggestions?
> 


From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  9 00:36:05 2005
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 21:36:05 -0700
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
	<1128708054.819697.232950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<20051007224533.08bde751@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <1128832565.028584.10590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Nicholas,

I have a particular interest in this subject as well. I've also used
the Python/Scipy combination, and it is a tantalizing combination, but
I found it to be a bit more clumsy than I'd like. Plus, my need for
continuous-time simulation is not as great as it has been in the past.

That said, I've been down this path before (see
http://custom.lab.unb.br/pub/asme/DYNAMICS/BUFORD1.zip), and I would be
interested in helping to develop something. I agree that Python would
be a great foundation to build upon.



From prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com  Tue Oct 18 03:37:40 2005
From: prasad.c.iyer at capgemini.com (Iyer, Prasad C)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:07:40 +0530
Subject: Don't want to serialize a variable of object
Message-ID: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D79@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>


Thanks a lot.

Actually you are right I would be trying same thing now.
Writing my own custom serializable for the object.

But everyone else who face the same problem would come up with their own
Serializable code.

Can't we plug something into cpickle So that it discards some variable from being serializable. Similar to __data for private variables. But on second thought that would be too much of change that I am asking.

Anyway thanks a lot.

regards
prasad chandrasekaran




















--- Cancer cures smoking

#-----Original Message-----
#From: Tarek Ziad? [mailto:tziade at nuxeo.com]
#Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:01 PM
#To: Iyer, Prasad C
#Cc: python-list at python.org
#Subject: Re: Don't want to serialize a variable of object
#
#Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
#
#>Hi,
#>I got a class which I need to serialize, except for couple of variable.
#>i.e.
#>
#>import cPickle as p
#>class Color:
#>    def __init__(self):
#>        print "hello world"
#>        self.x=10
#>        self.somechar="this are the characters"
#>color=Color()
#>f=file('poem.txt', 'w')
#>p.dump(color, f)
#>f.close()
#>
#>How do I serialize the object color without serializing the x and
#>somechar variables?
#>Is there any modifier which prevents the variable from being serialized.
#>
#>
#You can create your own serialization process, by providing some kind of
#serialize() method
# in a base class that would dump part of the object.
#
#Let's say, the instance __dict__ dictionnary ?
#this serialize method can then remove the attributes that starts with '_v_'
#(that's what we do in Zope to avoid pickling some attribute)
#
#>
#>
#>
#>Another question:
#>	Is there a concept of private variables?
#>
#>
#That's a long discussion, you should look at the archives in the list.
#
#But anyway, all attributes that starts with '__' are considered private
#to the class.
#(ie: can't be reached by "instance.__attribute")
#
#even though you can find it if you dig into instance.__dict__
#
#
#Regards,
#
#Tarek


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Oct  2 12:59:45 2005
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 18:59:45 +0200
Subject: output events on select
References: <dhjlcg$1do7$1@news.uit.no>
Message-ID: <lull1b3ldq.fsf@ohana.lan>

>>>>> "Tor Erik S?nvisen" <tores at stud.cs.uit.no> (TES) wrote:

>TES> When using select, what exactly will trigger an output-event? I have
>TES> a socket registered in the output-list of the select but an
>TES> output-event is never generated for that socket. I know the socket is
>TES> ready to send data, so how can I make select return with an
>TES> output-event?

It is better to talk about status than event. The select should return the
socket in the ready set for write when a write on that socket can be done
without blocking. So if it doen't return it then something is wrong. This
is on Unix systems, by the way. On Windows things might be different.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From dietz at dls.net  Sat Oct  1 12:11:34 2005
From: dietz at dls.net (Paul F. Dietz)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 11:11:34 -0500
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon [was Re: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum]
In-Reply-To: <ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c5ednakvTPmrKKPeRVn-3g@dls.net>

Bart Lateur wrote:

> As a similar example: I've been told by various women independently,
> that "there are more babies born near a full moon."

That's also a myth.

	Paul


From peck at spss.com  Mon Oct  3 10:42:39 2005
From: peck at spss.com (Peck, Jon)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:42:39 -0500
Subject: Finding the Process Path
Message-ID: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62228@hqemail2.spss.com>

Problem solved, but sys.executable seems to be (mostly) what I need.  The context here is that my code is embedded in another process, so the Python interpreter is not the process executable, and in fact argv is not set (for various reasons not related to Python.)

If I run this code directly through the interpreter, of course Python is what I get from sys.executable.

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+jkpeck=aya.yale.edu at python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+jkpeck=aya.yale.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Steve Holden
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 9:26 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Finding the Process Path

Peck, Jon wrote:
> Thanks, but this doesn't tell me what I am looking for.
> 
> I am looking for the path for the current process (which will not be the Python interpreter).
> 
Actually the core image will be that of the Python interpreter.

> I see, though, that this is available as sys.executable
> 
The interpreter? That's correct.

What you probably want is

import os, sys
print os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])

this will give you the path to the Python script the interpreter is running.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From allen.cross at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 22:50:43 2005
From: allen.cross at gmail.com (whoopsi)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 19:50:43 -0700
Subject: help w/ simple GPIB prog.
Message-ID: <1128394242.934045.165100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   Could someone give me some simple commands for communicating with
GPIB devices. All I want is to aquire values from a multimeter/fiber
optic attenuator/and a power meter. Nothing too complex. I was able to
do so using Matlab (however, I was using the serail port) and
communicating via SCPI language, but now the computer I'm using doesn't
have Matlab, so I'm trying to learn with Python. I've downloaded and
installed: ActivePython_2.4, pyserial-2.2, and
gpib-devices-0.0.4.win32.exe. I have read some beginner's guides to
python, but they don't discuss GPIB programming much.
   I thought I would simply be able to open a port, and send SCPI
commands to configure and aquire values. But when I tried to run GPIB
.py files from gpib-device-0.0.4 I got an error: "symbol 'ibsta' not
found". Doing some searching I found that ibsta was refering to a
library for GPIB (I'm assuming some .dll from a driver) and wrapping
them???. But these instruments as far as I know don't need drivers.

The instruments I'm using are:
   -PC w/ WIN2k
   -Keithley 2000 multimeter
   -HP 8156A optical attenuator
   -ILXLightwave Fiber Optic Power Meter

Essentially what I would like to do is simply run the attenuator
through different dB values and measure the voltage using the
multimeter. And possibly later integrating the power meter.
    If you could help me I would appreciate it, and please forgive the
above longwindedness. thanks.
    -Allen



From http  Sun Oct  2 07:52:13 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 04:52:13 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<433f56a3.2969039483@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <7x1x34f85u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
> I decided to read this thread today, and I still don't know exactly
> what your requirements are for "private" whatevers. No one seems to
> have discussed what you could do with properties and __getattribute__
> and metaclasses and decorators, yet there are many possibilities
> that might satisfy some or maybe all your requirements. I probably
> missed something...

Well, it's a discussion of why a certain feature might be useful, not
that it's required.  Mike Meyer points out some reasons it might be
hard to do smoothly without changing Python semantics in a deep way
(i.e. Python 3.0 or later).  

The basic notion is that if x.private_var is a private instance
variable on x, then the only functions that are allowed to touch it
are bound methods on x.  Also there has to be some way to stop the
client (the "client" means code that calls methods on x) from
injecting new methods into x's class definition.

Alternatively, if x and y are objects, and the app calls x.foo(y),
then privacy means x cannot see any of y's private variables no matter
what x does (this is sort of the applet model).

Python used to have a module called rexec/Bastion that did something
like this, but required the client to be wrapped in a special
proxy-like object, and it turned out to still have hard-to-fix holes,
so it was removed.  Maybe if Python objects are organized a bit
differently in PyPy, something like Bastion can be done again.

> What "privately" seems to mean is that within a method using
> private_var, you'd still like the code to read self.private_var,
> and not be translated to self.__some_kind_of_extreme_mangling_private_var
> even if the mangling had vanishing collision probability, like a name
> built from a secure hash GUID algorithm, right?

Only if clients were somehow prevented from examining self.__dict__
to find the GUID-like name.

> Also, if an outside access to an instance said inst.private_var = 123
> that would be ok, and bind a public attribute of that name as usual
> without interfering with the methods using the bona fide self.private_var?
> Or should it be an attribute error (which would thus leak the name even
> if it didn't make access possible).

If the mangled name were really long and random, the chance of such a
collision would be negligible.  But I think extreme mangling isn't the
way to go about this.  The right way is with some version of
__getattr__ that's harder to circumvent.

> I take it that a clever subclassing trick (like a post somewhere in
> this thread showed) should not provide access, but how about the
> inspect module?  Or an expression like instance.__dict__[1] if that
> was the sneaky spelling of instance.private_var? (note that integers
> are not allowed for instance attributes, even via get/setattr. (BTW
> & OTOH, interestingly type.__setattribute__(cls, att) allows integer
> att) Where do you want to draw the line?

If it's like Java, stuff like inspect should only work through special
interfaces in the interpreter and not be available to code in the app
unless some flags were set.

> I'm not trying to be provocative, just to get the requirements defined ;-)
> 
> What if you could define a class something like
> 
>     class C(object):
>         # privatize factory makes callable to make the changes and clean up after itself
>         __metaclass__ = privatize(method_foo='private_var1 pv2', method_bar='pv2')
>         ...
> 
> and have method_foo access self.private_var1 and self.pv2 as
> effectively private variables, and method_bar only self.pv2 and
> everything else work as usual? Would that meet your requirements?

I'm not sure; metaclasses confuse me too much.  But I think what I'm
imagining just can't be done in the current definition of Python.
Otherwise rexec/Bastion would be a special case of it and wouldn't
have had to be removed.  It would take a language change to fix it.

> I'm not sure I could do this with just a tricky metaclass, but I am
> pretty sure if you allowed byte-code-munging decoration calls from
> the metaclass to mess with method_foo and method_bar (as specified
> in the privatize factory call args), I could.

Yeah, in the extreme, you could just implement OOP as closures instead
of class instances, like Scheme does.

> This would still leave the access door open via something like
> type(instance).__dict__['method_foo'].func_code.co_consts[1][id(instance),
> 'priv_var'] so, again, where do you want to draw the line. Starting
> and communicating with a slave debugger in another (privilaged)
> process?

Ugh, yes, I guess that would allow reaching inside closures and
getting the variables out.  But it looks CPython-specific.  Maybe with
PyPy, there could be a way to prevent that.

> But the bottom line question is, would you actually use this privacy feature?

I have a crypto library right now that implements private vars by
putting the sensitive objects in a completely separate Python
interpreter from the client app, and communicating with proxy objects
in the client by RPC through sockets.  I couldn't think of a more
secure way to do it.  But of course the RPC overhead is pretty severe
compared with a normal method call.

> Or maybe, what are your real requirements? ;-)

Well, there are several levels being discussed:

1) Something that fixes the broken name mangling in the current
system, but still doesn't try to defeat intentional unmangling.
Currently, if you have a class with the same name as one of its
superclasses, the name mangling can fail even its existing purpose of
preventing accidental collisions.

2) Something that makes code audits more reliable, by guaranteeing
that private variables are inaccessible outside the class definition,
maybe excepting if the client code does something very bizarre like
using bytecode munging.  Using a documented name mangling feature
would not count as bizarre--it's there to be used, so you have to
assume that it's being used.

3) Something that makes serious effort to enforce privacy against
determined attackers, like Java does.  This can be used to implement
either privilege separation inside an app (like my crypto library now
uses a separate process and RPC for that purpose) or as a container
for potentially hostile foreign code (applet sandbox).

I'm not really calling for anything to be added to Python (especially
at levels 2 or 3), since the difficulties are pretty substantial.  I'm
mainly trying to answer the people who say such a feature is useless.


From winexpert at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 12 10:48:50 2005
From: winexpert at hotmail.com (David Stockwell)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:48:50 +0000
Subject: Very dumb question
In-Reply-To: <434D1211.6010903@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F233E43E9F223C0D53FFABFB17B0@phx.gbl>

Indeed,    Are you writing a new book?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1563052857/wildwierdmathpro


David
-------
Surf a wave to the future with a free tracfone 
http://cellphone.duneram.com/index.html




>From: Laszlo Zsolt Nagy <gandalf at designaproduct.biz>
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Very dumb question
>Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:39:29 +0200
>I have a program with this code fragment:
>
>     print len(data)
>     print data[:50]
>     raise SystemExit
>
>This prints:
>
>20381
><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
>
>But if I change 50 to 51
>
>     print len(data)
>     print data[:51]
>     raise SystemExit
>
>then it prints
>
>20381
>  !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
>
>After all, only the last 50 bytes are printed. The string is the same
>(length 20381) in both cases.
>Surprisingly, I can print more than 50 characters, this works:
>
>print "012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789A"
>
>I'm sure it is my mistake, but I don't know what am I doing wrong. Do
>you have an idea?
>Thanks,
>
>    Les
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com  Mon Oct 24 07:06:39 2005
From: microsnot at MUNGED.hotmail.com (microsnot)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:06:39 +1000
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
	<mn.bcc57d5a0522494f.30301@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <BF82FD5F.898F%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>

> Just look in the archives of the Pythonmac mailinglist. We have
> discussed this very subject intensively recently, with a pretty
> extensive review of the different IDEs available.

Looking through the mailing list. Any specific subject/dates I should be
looking for?

>> Suggestions for plugins for Eclipse would also be nice.
> 
> Err, Eclipse (imho) is a H-O-G.

Couldn't agree more... But all so useful for Java.



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:19:25 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 11:19:25 -0700
Subject: Installing Python at Work
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129573165.311439.104080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

You even don't have to install Python on your system. Michael Foord
created Movable Python (http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/movpy/),
which allows you to carry a full python distribution and more to be
carried around on a USB stick.  You can copy it to a folder on your
harddisk. Just delete the folder when you're done.
This is very handy when you're travelling and don't want to carry a
laptop around.

Stani
--
SPE - Stani's Python Editor http://pythonide.stani.be



From Tomasik at 2kop.mil.pl  Tue Oct 18 11:50:35 2005
From: Tomasik at 2kop.mil.pl (Robert)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:50:35 +0200
Subject: wxPython + pyPlot
References: <dj2ptf$aqb$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<dj2thb$qrp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<NN75f.2002$dO2.171@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <dj35kg$53l$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Philippe C. Martin wrote:

> I think wxWidget comes with a sample
> 
> Philippe
Yes I use it, but there is not a sample with pyplot.

Robert


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 07:39:25 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:39:25 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
In-Reply-To: <4358C7A6.1040907@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
References: <4357EE59.1000005@bakerjaffe.plus.com>	<mailman.2326.1129843278.509.python-list@python.org>	<43588b5c$0$6536$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<dja4ss$m2i$2@sea.gmane.org>
	<4358C7A6.1040907@bakerjaffe.plus.com>
Message-ID: <djak18$53n$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Jaffe wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the 
>>>class itself, before I've made any instances.
>>>
>>
>>Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Yep, that would work! Thanks.
> 
> But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be almost 
> exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to apply 
> these methods to the class as an object in its own right).
> 
What's the use case?

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sun Oct 16 14:31:52 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:31:52 +0200
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <orKdnUX4dZLk1c_eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
	<1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129438147.182266.196790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<orKdnUX4dZLk1c_eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ibKdnXF9VdE5Ac_eRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> themightydoyle at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> Nevermind.  I found a better solution.  I used shared memory to create
>> a keep-alive flag.  I then use the select function with a specified
>> timeout, and recheck the keep-alive flag after each timeout.
> 
> 
> As Dennis points out, your original attempt was destined to fail because 
> you were calling the method from the main thread, not the one you wanted 
<snip>

A similar problem exists in .NET but they "solved" it by creating an 
Abort method that raises an exception in the thread itself, basically 
doing what you wanted to do.

However, this leads to all sorts of problem, particular when that 
exception is raised in a finally block in that thread, which could mean 
that the finally block did not fully execute, leading to resource leaks 
or similar problems.

They pondered a while about constructing non-interruptible blocks of 
code for .NET 2.0 but I'm not entirely sure how that worked out.

In any case, the best way is to use some kind of signal that the thread 
reacts to, either by having it specifically wait for a signallable 
object (like an event) or just by checking a boolean variable or similar 
for a magic value that means "now is a good time for you to terminate".

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From russandheather at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 13:27:12 2005
From: russandheather at gmail.com (Russell Warren)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 10:27:12 -0700
Subject: Threads and socket.setdefaulttimeout
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1980.1129146536.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128030031.130958.185620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1238.1128067318.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129142005.610543.212180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1980.1129146536.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129742832.414652.104230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the detailed repsone... sorry for the lag in responding to
it.

After reading and further thought, the only reason I was using
setdefaulttimeout in the first place (rather then using a direct
settimeout on the socket) was because it seemed like the only way (and
easy) of getting access to the seemingly deeply buried socket being
used by xmlrpclib.  That was prior to me using threads of course.  I
then started trying to make this solution work with thread, but it is
now too convoluted as you say.  Now I think the best solution is likely
to redirect my efforts at getting access to the socket used by
xmlrpclib so that I can set it's timeout directly.  I'm still unclear
how to do this cleanly, though.

Getting to some of your comments.

> When you say "one thread affects another", I see that your example uses
> the same function for both threads. IMHO it's much better to override
> the thread's run() method than to provide a callable at thread creating
> time. That way you can be sure each thread's execution is firmly in the
> context of the particular thread instance's namespace.
>
> having said all this, I don't think that's your issue.

Correct - the bottom code is nothing to do with my code and was only to
quickly prove that it was cross-thread.

> This seems extremely contorted, and I'm pretty sure we can find a better
> way.

Couldn't agree more!

> The threads' network calls should be yielding process control during
> their timeout period to allow other runnable threads to proceed. That's

Yep.  This is not causing me any problem.

> You are aware, I presume, that you can set a timeout on each socket
> individually using its settimeout() method?

Yes, but I momentarily had forgot about it... as mentioned I ended up
making the since-bad choice of using setdefaulttimeout to get timeouts
set on the inaccessible sockets.  Then I carried it too far...

> See above. However, this *does* require you to have access to the
> sockets, which is tricky if they are buried deep in some opaque object's
> methods.

Any help on how to crack the safe would be appreciated.

> There are locks! I suspect what you need is a threading.Rlock object,
> that a thread has to hold to be able to modify the (global) default
> timeout. This isn't a full solution to your problem, though, as you have
> correctly deduced.

Not quite what I was after I don't think since potentially interfering
code needs to check the lock (via acquire) to avoid conflict.  What I
guess I mean is something general for the process saying "never ever
interrupt this block og code by running code on another thread,
regardless of whether the other thread(s) check a lock".  Thinking more
about it it seems unreasonable so I'll drop the question.

Russ



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 29 03:27:34 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 07:27:34 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87y84dix2r.fsf@ieee.org>
	<1130507496.591640.36260@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43631fce.1247046678@news.oz.net>

On 28 Oct 2005 06:51:36 -0700, "pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com" <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> wrote:

>First of all, this isn't a text file, it is a binary file. Secondly,
>substrings can overlap. In the sequence 0010010 the substring 0010
>occurs twice.
>
ISTM you better let others know exactly what you mean by this, before
you use the various solutions suggested or your own ;-)

a) Are you talking about bit strings or byte strings?
b) Do you want to _count_ overlapping substrings??!!
Note result of s.count on your example:

 >>> s = '0010010'
 >>> s.count('0010')
 1

vs. brute force counting overlapped substrings (not tested beyond what you see ;-)

 >>> def ovcount(s, sub):
 ...     start = count = 0
 ...     while True:
 ...         start = s.find(sub, start) + 1
 ...         if start==0: break
 ...         count += 1
 ...     return count
 ...
 >>> ovcount(s, '0010')
 2

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Mon Oct 24 08:07:26 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:07:26 +1000
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:23:58 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 2005-10-21, Christopher Subich schreef <csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com>:
>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>> It would be better if cmp would give an indication it
>>> can't compare two objects instead of giving incorrect
>>> and inconsistent results.
>>
>> If two objects aren't totally comparable, then using 'cmp' on them is 
>> ill-defined to begin with.
> 
> Where is that documented?

Surely that is so obvious, it doesn't need documenting? If comparisons
aren't defined between two things ("which is longer, water or fire?") then
comparing them is ill-defined.

On second thoughts... no, I don't believe it is so obvious. People are
used to thinking about comparisons in the context of numbers and strings,
and it won't hurt to remind them that not every pair of objects can be
compared.

>> The Standard Thing To Do is throw an 
>> exception; see the Highly Obscure Case of the Complex Numbers.
>>
>> >>>1 == 1j
>> False
>> >>>1 != 1j
>> True
>> >>>1 < 1j
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
> 
> I would say this is the wrong answer. The right answer should
> be False IMO.

I'm afraid that mathematically you are wrong. Greater and less than is not
defined for complex numbers.

I think I see where you are coming from: you are reading "1 < 1j" as "is
one less than one*j", the answer to which is "no". That's a sensible
answer to a sensible question, except for two problems:

(1) you will upset the mathematical purists, who argue that the English
sentence is not quite the same as the mathematical relation; and

(2) you will upset the programmers, since your suggestion would create a
whole class of gotchas and bugs, where people wrongly assume that since
1<1j is False, 1>1j should be True.

This is one case where practicality *is* purity.


> Especially in the following case do I think the TypeError is the wrong
> answer:
> 
>>>> 3 + 0j < 2 + 0j
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=

That's an interesting case. A mathematical purist might argue that
ordering is not defined for complex numbers, even if the imaginary
component is zero. A *different* purist might argue:

3 = 3+0j
2 = 2+0j

then since 3 > 2 it should also be true that 3+0j > 2+0j.

I can see merit in both arguments, but I'm inclined to go with the second
argument, if and only if the imaginary component is exactly zero. I take
comfort in the fact that mathematicians allow continued fractions with
zero terms even though dividing by zero is verboten.


> Look at sets:
> 
>>>> set([1]) <=  set([2])
> False
>>>> set([2]) <= set([1])
> False

No, sorry, you are making a mistake. In the context of sets, the <
operator doesn't mean "less than", it means "is a subset of". It is
correct to say neither "set([1]) is a subset of set([2])" nor vice versa
is true. Both are false.

By analogy, one can ask, "is the cat inside the box?" and get the answer
"No", but this does not imply that therefore the box must be inside the
cat.


[snip]

>> So your use-case is already well-defined, and rather simple.  Make
>> __cmp__ raise an exception of your choice,
> 
> That is not well defined. It doesn't allow to distinghuish between
> something went wrong in __cmp__ and and answer that indicates the only
> usefull thing you can say is that they are unequal.

Agreed there: there should be a distinct exception for trying to compare
incomparable objects, rather than ValueError or TypeError.


> Besides I find the following result inconsistent:
> 
>>>> set([1]) <= set([1,2])
> True
>>>> cmp(set([1]), set([1,2]))
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: cannot compare sets using cmp()
> 
> The first set is smaller than the second so acoording to the
> documentation, I should get a negative number as a result.

No, the first expression tests whether set([1]) is a subset of set([1,2]),
not whether it is "smaller". Smaller and bigger aren't defined for sets.
Informally, we can say that one set is smaller than another if it has
fewer members, but that's only one possible definition of "smaller" out of
many.

Think, for example, of the set of all US military forces. That has one
member. Compare it to the set of all US presidents whose surname is or was
Bush. That set has two members. Do you think it is sensible definition of
"smaller" to say that the set of US military forces is smaller than the
set of Presidents called Bush?


[snip]

>> then your
>> _ONLY_ choices, no matter your implementation, is to return some
>> possibly inconsistent result (a < b == 1, b < c == 1, a < c == 0) or
>> raise an exception for unapplicable comparisons.
>>
>> This isn't a Python problem; this is a problem from formal mathematics.
> 
> I think it is python's problem if python gives the wrong results.
> 
> when a < b then cmp(a,b) should give a negative number as a result.
> Python sometimes does not!
> 
> when not a < b then cmp(a,b) should not give a negative number as a
> result. Python sometimes does!
> 
> I think those are python problems.

I think you need to give examples of where < or > *defined as comparisons*
returns the wrong results. The examples from sets do not count, because
the operators aren't being used for comparisons.


>> Personally, I'd favor the "raise an exception" case, which is exactly
>> what will happen if you define rich comparisons and let cmp throw an
>> exception.
> 
> But I don't want cmp to raise an exception when the two elements are
> comparable.
> 
> That cmp(set([1]), set([2])) would raise an exception, I can understand,
> although I would prefer it returned None, but why should cmp(set([1]),
> set([1,2])) raise an exception. There is a perfectly well defined answer
> for this.

Alas, there is not. First you have to define what "less than" and "greater
than" means for sets, and there is no well-defined answer to that. They
certainly don't mean "is a subset" and "is a superset". Nor is it sensible
to define them in terms of the number of elements:

def lt(set1, set2):
    """Defines less than for sets in terms of the number of
    elements.""" 
    return len(set1) < len(set2)

def gt(set1, set2):
    """Defines greater than for sets in terms of the number of
    elements."""
    return len(set1) > len(set2)

py> lt( set([1]), set([1, 2]) )
True
py> gt( set([1]), set([1, 2]) )
False

So far so good. But now:

py> lt( set([1]), set([2]) )
False
py> gt( set([1]), set([2]) )
False
py> set([1]) == set([2])
False

So set([1]) is neither less than, nor greater than, nor equal to set([2]).


>> Operators that assume comparable objects, like sort, also almost always
>> assume a total order -- inconsistent operations can give weird results,
>> while throwing an exception will at least (usually) give some sort of
>> error that can be caught.
> 
> No it wont. the sort method will happily sort a list of sets.
> 
>>>> lst
> [set([1]), set([2])]
>>>> lst.sort()

That's an accident of implementation. Sorting nows uses only <, rather
than __cmp__, and since < (subset) for sets is defined, sort blindly goes
and sorts the list.

However, look at this:

py> from sets import Set as set
py> L1 = [set([1]), set([2]), set([3])]
py> L2 = [set([2]), set([3]), set([1])]

Notice that L1 and L2 contain the same elements, just in different orders.
Sorting those two lists should give the same order, correct?

py> L1.sort()
py> L2.sort()
py> L1
[Set([1]), Set([2]), Set([3])]
py> L2
[Set([2]), Set([3]), Set([1])]

Should, but doesn't. Oops. That's a bug.

Personally, I argue that sorting is something that you do to lists, and
that all lists should be sortable regardless of whether the objects within
them have a total order or not. If not, the list should impose a sensible
ordering on them, such as (perhaps) lexicographical order ("dictionary
order").

Look at it this way: books do not have a total ordering. What does it mean
to say that Tolstoy's "War and Peace" is less than Tom Clancy's "The Hunt
For Red October"? Are we comparing by title? Author? Contents? Cost of the
book, dimensions of the book, number of pages, some subjective idea of
quality, average word length, maximum sentence length, publication date,
number of protagonists, or what?

And yet libraries somehow find no difficulty in sorting shelves of
hundreds or thousands of books.

So in my opinion, sorting is a red-herring. In an ideal world (Python 3
perhaps?) sorting will be divorced from comparisons, or at least seeing
other people. But that still leaves the problem of comparisons.



-- 
Steven.



From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Wed Oct  5 08:16:06 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 14:16:06 +0200
Subject: Build spoofed IP packets
References: <L2D0f.12452$133.5252@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<slrndk6qvp.8dq.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <StP0f.13218$133.4236@tornado.fastwebnet.it>


> Yes, give us the error. And know that you can't build raw IP packets
> unless you're root.
>
> Sybren

Sorry. I forgot to paste the error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\test\client.py", line 156, in ?
    send_pkt()
  File "C:\test\client.py", line 96, in send_pkt
    s.sendto(ip.get_packet(), (dst, 0)) # send packet to server
socket.error: (10004, 'Interrupted system call')

Note: this only happens on Windows XP prof SP2. On Linux I got no problems.
I run the program as Administrator. 




From ms at cerenity.org  Mon Oct  3 13:53:59 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:53:59 +0100
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no> <Ab6dnZLcB8e2zqHeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>
	<dhj7m5$18j8$1@news.uit.no>
	<mailman.1300.1128116615.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433e7898$0$49766$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<mailman.1392.1128360722.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43417009$0$15070$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

John J. Lee wrote:

> [Tor Erik S?nvisen]
>> socketmodule.c, but I can't locate this file... Where should I look?
> 
> [John, finding 'socketmodule.c' responds well to "I'm Feeling Lucky"]
>> Does google vary in its results across the globe?
> 
> [Michael]
>> The search terms might be obvious to you, but it simply means your
>> google-fu is strong, and the strong should help the weak. (or not attack
>> them at least...)
> 
> You believe that Tor is dumb enough not to think of searching for
> "socketmodule.c" when, um, searching for socketmodule.c?

He said he had tried google - OK, not in the first post but early in this
thread -  I don't equate that with being dumb - just dumb luck :-)

Message-ID: <dhj7m5$18j8$1 at news.uit.no>

After all Peter Hansen suggested the search terms "python socketmodule.c"
rather than just "socketmodule.c"

Message-ID: <5N-dnZny3YyaA6HenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d at powergate.ca>

To you the obvious search term was "socketmodule.c" which to me simply means
you're more aligned with Google than Tor :-)

These things happen :-)

Regards,


Michael.



From amichail at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 08:47:58 2005
From: amichail at gmail.com (Amir  Michail)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 05:47:58 -0700
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
References: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128427778.421720.205370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1427.1128428762.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128430078.513687.264950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Amir Michail wrote:
>
> > Is there an easy way to do this without modifying the configuration of
> > the cgi server and without running a cgi server on the other machine
> > where the script will actually run?
> >
> > Perhaps someone wrote a simple server that provides the required
> > environment for the cgi script to run?
> >
> > I'm looking for something simple that does not require root access.
>
> you could of course use something like
>
>     http://docs.python.org/lib/module-CGIHTTPServer.html
>
> or some other light-weight web server, but you should probably have in mind
> that doing things like this without coordinating with your server administrators
> and security architects *before* you start tinkering can be a excellent way to
> get fired...
>
> </F>

I would like to do this to improve performance by avoiding nfs. (The
required data is not on the cgi server.)

The advice I got was to use something like MySQL with a client/server
architecture.

However, I thought it would be easier to simply run the core part of
the script off the cgi server, thereby avoiding nfs for data lookups.

So I guess the point is that such a solution is more likely to be a
security risk than MySQL?

Amir



From lycka at carmen.se  Wed Oct 12 02:59:02 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:59:02 +0200
Subject: List performance and CSV
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1764.1128787440.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128784783.256285.24680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1764.1128787440.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <diic7m$ecs$1@wake.carmen.se>

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:
> But a really fast approach is to use a dictionary or other structure
> that turns the inner loop into a fast lookup, not a slow loop through
> the 'Customers' list. 

Another approach is to sort both sequences, loop over
both in one loop and just update the index for the smaller
item. Something like this (below, I'm assuming no duplicates
in the lists, and I don't know if that's true for your [2]):

 >>> l1 = (1,2,4,6,7,8,9)
 >>> l2 = (2,5,6,7,9,10)
 >>> i1 = i2 = 0
 >>> while 1:
...     if l1[i1]==l2[i2]:
...         print l1[i1], 'is in both'
...         i1 += 1; i2 += 1
...     elif l1[i1]<l2[i2]:
...         i1 += 1
...     else:
...         i2 += 1
...
2 is in both
6 is in both
7 is in both
9 is in both
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
IndexError: tuple index out of range

Unless I'm terribly confused, this will lead to m+n iterations
in the worst case. (Of course, the sort operations are something
like O(n log n) I guess.)

By the way, you might be able to use sets too: How fast is
Set.intersection?


From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Oct 19 05:48:01 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 02:48:01 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129710240.173768.151950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129701270.792327.168620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1129708210.963305.43270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129710240.173768.151950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129715281.505043.60640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thanks a lot for various notes. Bonono?

I will have to look at the itertools module. Just went to the doc
http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/module-itertools.html
looks interesting.

> But I believe Python is designed for easy to code and read and maintain
> in mind.

> One has to admit that without some training, FP is not very
> intuitive, my head spin when I see haskell code. A for loop is easier
> to understand.

This i'm not sure. Of the past couple of years i increasingly developed
a theory (probably well-known among proper experts), that the
difficulty of human feats of various forms, are primarily a perception
and familiarity thing. This may be getting off topic, but i wrote an
essay expresising much of the idea using Juggling as a example:
Difficulty Perceptions in Human Feats
 http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/juggling.html

likewise, i think this applies to mental feats as well. In particular,
i think that whether imperative code or functional code is easier for
the mind is almost ENTIRELY dependent on which one the person is more
familiar with, coulped with a innate attitude one may have picked up.

> Well, if you want clean FP, you can always try haskell which is getting
> better and better in terms of real world module support(file system,
> network etc).

oh Haskell, my love! I am really going to learn it now. (maybe i'll
start A-Java-Haskell-A-Day) This month i just learned and read about
how Perl 6 is implemented in Haskell! (because one Taiwaness hacker
single-handedly by happenstance tried to do it, as a by-product of
learning Haskell) This Pugs (Perl6 in Haskell) really brought two
rather incompatible communities together somewhat for mutual exchange.
(the learning, on the surface, is politely said to be mutual, but i'm
pretty sure it's mostly Perlers learning from the Haskell folks)

... there is a sentiment among the elite tech-geeking morons, early on
imbued by the concept of troll, so that they in general don't
communicate and learn from any other language except their own.
Anything cross-posted is considered as troll, and the inter-language
communication has been essentially completely cut off. Basically, the
only ones generating all the garbage posts are these troll-criers
themselves. (will have to flesh out on this particular point of
net-sociology in a essay some other day.)

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From jparlar at cogeco.ca  Fri Oct 14 02:02:23 2005
From: jparlar at cogeco.ca (Jay Parlar)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:02:23 -0700
Subject: setuptools, ez_setup over http proxy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5515.1129255546.508.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5515.1129255546.508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65ebe4ca2322dd26d763d2c442ef492f@cogeco.ca>

> I've recently configured my network such that I use squid as a http
> proxy.  I'd now like to be able to use setuptools and ez_setup via this
> proxy.  Is this possible? If so, how do I do it?

It should work if you sent the environment variable (in your shell) 
'http_proxy' to the address of your proxy. Python's urllib will then be 
able to pull it, and everything should magically work.

Something like:

export http_proxy='http://some_squid_server'



> "....If you are behind an NTLM-based firewall that prevents Python
> programs from accessing the net directly, you may wish to first install
> and use the APS proxy server, which lets you get past such firewalls in
> the same way that your web browser(s) do.....

As far as I know, this is only a problem if you're using a particular 
proxy server from Microsoft.


> ps. I'm not sure that this is the right forum for this question.  If it
> isn't feel free to point me to the right place.

The distutils list would be the more appropriate place for setuptools 
questions in general.

Jay P.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 10:33:25 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 07:33:25 -0700
Subject: morphological image processing in Python
In-Reply-To: <slrndk2fm5.cck.alf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <slrndk2fm5.cck.alf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <dhrffl$ffv$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alexandre Fayolle wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm about to start a project which will involve some greyscale image
> processing using morphological operators (erosion, dilation, distance
> transforms...), and I was wondering if these operators were available in
> Python through some open source libraries. 
> 
> A quick google search returned pymorphpro[1], which is unfortunately not
> free software, and there also seem to be something available in ITK [2].
> Unless I'm mistaken, the PIL does not provide these operations, nore do
> Numeric/numarray/scipy. 
> 
> Have I missed the one true Python mathematical morphology toolbox?

numarray

http://stsdas.stsci.edu/numarray/numarray-1.3.html/module-numarray.ndimage.html

This will be ported to the new scipy shortly. We could use some help.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:59:01 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:59:01 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com><5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<20i1m19cup3s8hb4ikqti1monvtf9nb3dv@4ax.com>
	<djqi72$5vc$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417740.645004.151310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djqium$66a$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Iain King wrote:
> David Schwartz wrote:
>> Roedy Green wrote:
>>
>>> The particular way MS threatened to put me out of business was by
>>> threatening to arm twist all wholesalers to refuse to sell MS
>>> product to me, which any retailer needed to survive in those days.
>>
>>     Right, I get that. You owed your entire business to Microsoft.
>> Without their products, you would have had nothing, by your own
>> admission. The way you repay them is by trying to screw them --
>> attract people who come in only because you offer Windows and then
>> say "here's an OS that's better and cheaper".
>
> Oh right.  You're actually just a troll.  Oh well.
>
> *plonk*

    I see, he presents the strongest possible anti-Microsoft argument 
(including analogizing Microsoft to people who *KILL* people) and that's 
fine with you. I present the strongest possible pro-Microsoft argument, and 
I must be a troll. Right ... If you think I'm a troll, why don't you try 
googling for all my posts on USENET.

    DS




From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 26 08:21:02 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:21:02 -0400
Subject: OT: Re: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A1@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
References: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A1@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
Message-ID: <435F74AE.2030201@bellsouth.net>

Tim Golden wrote:
<snip>

>As it happens, (and I suspect I'll have to don my flameproof suit here),
>I prefer the Windows command line to bash/readline for day-to-day use, 
>including in Python. Why? Because it does what I can't for the life of 
>me get readline to do: you can type the first few letters of a 
>previously-entered command and press F8. This brings up (going backwards
>
>with further presses) the last command which starts like that. And
>*then* 
>you can just down-arrow to retrieve the commands which followed it. 
>If someone can tell me how to do this with bash/readline I will be 
>indebted to them and it will increase my chances of switching to Linux 
>a bit!
>

Others have recommended ctrl-r in bash.  People's tastes vary, but that 
has an awkward feel for me.  In zsh, you just type in as many letters as 
you care to match and hit the "up" arrow.  But, honestly, this is a bit 
annoying to me.  If I've begun to type in a command, realize it's not 
what I want, but instead, I want to go back in my history a couple of 
commands, I hit the "up" arrow to find to my irritation that it's 
pattern matching rather than going directly back in my history.  I guess 
it comes in handy at times, though....

- jmj


From rrr at ronadam.com  Tue Oct 25 02:07:17 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:07:17 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2504.1130216992.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2504.1130216992.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pYj7f.213077$p_1.134475@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

James Stroud wrote:
> Oops. Answered before I finished reading the question.
> 
> James

Well, the one bad side effect (or feature depending on the 
circumstance), is it makes a copy.  I wonder if there is a way to modify 
the dictionary in place with a function to do the same thing instead of 
creating a new object?

Cheers,
    Ron


> On Monday 24 October 2005 19:53, Ron Adam wrote:
> 
>>James Stroud wrote:
>>
>>>Here it goes with a little less overhead:
>>>
>>>
>>>py> class namespace:
>>>...   def __init__(self, adict):
>>>...     self.__dict__.update(adict)
>>>...
>>>py> n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
>>>py> n.bob
>>>1
>>>py> n.ted
>>>3
>>>
>>>James
>>
>>But it's not a dictionary anymore so you can't use it in the same places
>>you would use a dictionary.
>>
>>       foo(**n)
>>
>>Would raise an error.
>>
>>So I couldn't do:
>>
>>    def foo(**kwds):
>>       kwds = namespace(kwds)
>>       kwds.bob = 3
>>       kwds.alice = 5
>>       ...
>>       bar(**kwds)     #<--- do something with changed items
>>
>>Ron
>>
>>
>>>On Monday 24 October 2005 19:06, Ron Adam wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi, I found the following to be a useful way to access arguments after
>>>>they are passed to a function that collects them with **kwds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    class namespace(dict):
>>>>        def __getattr__(self, name):
>>>>            return self.__getitem__(name)
>>>>        def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>>>>            self.__setitem__(name, value)
>>>>        def __delattr__(self, name):
>>>>            self.__delitem__(name)
>>>>
>>>>    def foo(**kwds):
>>>>	kwds = namespace(kwds)
>>>>	print kwds.color, kwds.size, kwds.shape  etc....
>>>>
>>>>    foo( color='red', size='large', shape='ball', .... etc..)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It just seems awkward to have to use "string keys" in this situation.
>>>>This is easy and still retains the dictionary so it can be modified and
>>>>passed to another function or method as kwds again.
>>>>
>>>>Any thoughts?  Any better way to do this?
>>>>
>>>>Cheers, Ron
> 
> 


From maketo at norge.freeshell.org  Tue Oct 11 12:17:36 2005
From: maketo at norge.freeshell.org (Ognen Duzlevski)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:17:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python's Performance
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <digoj0$p90$1@chessie.cirr.com>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> Alex Stapleton wrote

> > Except it is interpreted.

> except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte code, which
> is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a module is up
> to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.

I am curious, does this make a difference speed wise (aside from loading time)? The python tutorial would seem to imply 
that it does not:

>From Python-Docs-2.4.2/tut/node8.html#SECTION008120000000000000000

"A program doesn't run any faster when it is read from a .pyc or .pyo file than when it is read from a .py file; the 
only thing that's faster about .pyc or .pyo files is the speed with which they are loaded."

Thanks,
Ognen


From mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov  Thu Oct 13 11:29:35 2005
From: mekstran at scl.ameslab.gov (Michael Ekstrand)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:29:35 -0500
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
In-Reply-To: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200510131029.35504.mekstran@scl.ameslab.gov>

On Thursday 13 October 2005 09:43, Ben wrote:
> Could anyone suggest an open source project that has particularly
> well written Python?  I am especially looking for code that people
> would describe as "very Python-ic".  (Not trying to start any kind of
> war - just wanted some good examples of a well written Python app to
> read.)

The Python Standard Library. Thousands of lines of quite good Python 
code. It might not use all the latest features, and there might be a 
few dark corners here and there, but it's still solid. And quite easy 
to understand (I had no difficulty understanding and modifying 
httplib).

- Michael


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Sat Oct 15 02:27:41 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:27:41 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc Jeroen Wenting <jwenting at hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote:
> Without Microsoft 90% of us would never have seen a computer more powerful 
> than a ZX-81 and 90% of the rest of us would never have used only dumb 
> mainframe terminals.

Uh - when microsoft produced dos 1.0, or whatever it was, I was sitting
at my Sun 360 workstation (with 4M of RAM, later upgraded to 8M),
running SunOS 3.8 or thereabouts.

And a mean game of tetris it played too. Chess wasn't worth the
humiliation at level 5.

I believe every researcher in britain got one as a matter of course, but
they only replaced the perq machines that everyone had had to put up
with before then.  The vaxen running hpux or so were plentiful too, and
had fine monitors, tending more to the PC shape.  We'd made our own word
processor machines and spreadsheet automatons before that.  It didn't
take that many components, just a good engineer and a room full of
lackeys with soddering irons.  The BBC were selling kits too (what were
they?  Ataris?), not that I ever fell for that.

Maybe five years earlier I'd designed and built my own computer from
scratch using the MC 6802 chip as processor.  Somebody really should
have told me about assembler - I wrote in machine code, flashing the
code into prom with a 100ms pulse from a 16V battery.  Goodness knows
how much memory I had ...  maybe a few KB.

I think the Suns were abut $30000 each when they first appeared, but
prices dropped rapidly so that  after maybe three years the standard
price was about $8000. PCs had appeared and came in at about $4000, if I
recall right, so there was a price differential but it wasn't huge,
especially when a Sun could support a whole research team via vt100
lines, and a PC was a one-person job, thanks to the o/s.


Peter


From sll_noSpamlicious_z_XXX_m at cc.usu.edu  Tue Oct 25 19:47:21 2005
From: sll_noSpamlicious_z_XXX_m at cc.usu.edu (Luc The Perverse)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:47:21 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.15.43.12.259240@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<m3ll0h8u2t.fsf@invalid.address>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djluqm$gkg$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.23.08.43.351@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <435ec42c$0$8247$3a2ecee9@news.csolutions.net>

"Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.10.25.23.08.43.351 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:51:02 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:
>
>>
>> "Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2005.10.25.16.12.33.746996 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
>>
>>> The first two points are factually wrong, and the third is an opinion
>>> based on the concept, as far as I can see, that Microsoft should be
>>> allowed to do anything they like, even if those actions harm others.
>>
>>     Of course this alleged "harm" is simply a lack of a benefit.
>>
>>     Why is Burger King allowed to close at 10PM? That harms me when I'm
>> hungry after 10.
>
> Burger King doesn't take actions to prevent you from going to another
> vendor who will stay open after 10PM, as you very well know.
>
> Nor is Burger King a monopoly -- if they refuse to open after 10 in the
> face of great demand, they only harm themselves. As I said a few days ago,
> it is not the place for either us or the government to care about the
> success or failure of any specific vendor, but only about the health of
> the entire market. As there is no shortage of competition in the fast food
> market, the harm done to you by Burger King's refusal to open after 10PM
> is not sufficient for anyone to care. If there is significant demand, then
> Burger King will merely harm themselves by refusing to open because they
> will lose customers to those vendors who do open, and if there is
> insignificant demand, then why should anyone care?

NO!  There ~is~ a conspiracy by Egg farmers to not make burgers available 
before 10 am.

Burger King used to be one of the last great vestiges of the 24 hour burger, 
and now it's gone.

They know no one would buy the shitty egg McMuffins/equivalent if they had 
delicious burgers available, so there is something underhanded going on 
behind the scenes.

Same thing with pizza.  Don't try to tell me that there are not hungry 
partiers at 3 am - but are any of the delivery places open?  NO!

Why is it this way?  Who knows!  But when in doubt, blame the right wing 
extremist politicians.

--
LTP 




From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 19:29:23 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:29:23 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c66rk1ddn72u2g78f4k9pcicj4hrerkls3@4ax.com>


>>I think e-mail should be text only. 

What if, instead of that crap Outlook produces, which is a mishmash of
malformed html, Javascript viruses, self-installing enclosures etc.

It were replaced by a rich text that were something like a CSS-style
HTML, validated, and preparsed, and compacted for rapid rendering.

It would have no hooks in it for viruses or code launching, though it
would have clearly marked hypertext links.

The question I am getting at is what is bugging you the most?

1. spam which is often associated with formatted mail

2. Trojans that exploit MS email.

3. cutsie pie dancing bears

4. sloppy implementation

5. slow email downloads

6. Puritanical objection  to any variation in colour and font.  It is
unmanly.

7. want it impossible to embed images, not just for you but for
everyone. No one has a legitimate interest to embed images.

Let us say your answer is all 7.  My response is the solution is not
to revert to plain text for email.  It won't happen. The solution is
to move forward and fix the implementations.

It is one thing to demand all mail sent to you have no formatting, but
quite another to demand all mail sent by anyone to anyone have no
formatting or embedded images.

I think a modern email system should let your correspondents
automatically know of your eccentricity so that mail will
automatically be stripped to the bone before sending it to you.
My ISP has this quirk and gets irate if I ever slip and send him a
formatted mail. I would love it if Eudora remembered that for me and
automatically prevented me from doing that.

Formatted email has quite legit functions. For example the Health
Action Network Society has an optional mailing list that will let you
know of any upcoming events relevant to alternative health.  The mail
looks like a little poster for the event.



-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es  Tue Oct 25 03:24:08 2005
From: ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es (Peter T. Breuer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:24:08 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlrlt2.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <o53133-f59.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>

In comp.os.linux.misc Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>     I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary. I can walk up 
>> to you and say "if you want me to mow your lawn, you must pay me $1 every 
>> time you smoke a cigarette". So long as you can say "no" and all that 
>> happens is that I don't mow your lawn (which I have no obligation to do 
>> anyway), it isn't extortion.

> If you would happen to have a monopoly on the mowing business, which
> would make it very hard for me to have my lawn mowed unless I took
> your offer, it would be.

In this case the extortion is over smoking a cigarette (it doesn't seem
to me to necessitate a monopoly on mowing for the threat to have been
deemed to have been made, but perhaps for it to be deemed likely for you
to believe it to have teeth) - money is being demanded with menaces for
your continued smoking of cigarettes.  The threatened menace is that
your lawn will find itself not mown.

I can certainly also envisage circumstances in which that threat would
be very real by virtue of an effective monpoloy in the garden market.

Peter


From bj_666 at gmx.net  Thu Oct 13 18:30:27 2005
From: bj_666 at gmx.net (Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:30:27 +0200
Subject: python interpreter
References: <digm1h$9si$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.13.22.30.25.252480@gmx.net>

In <digm1h$9si$1 at online.de>, g.franzkowiak wrote:

> my interest is for the internals of the Python interpreter.
> 
> I've used up to now FORTH for something and this indirect interpreter is
>  very smart.
> --- ASM ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> NEXT:   LODSW           ; WA  <- [IP]
>                         ; IP  <- IP+2
>         MOV     T,WA    ; T   <- WA1 (CFA)
>         JMP     [T]     ; JMP [CFA]
> 
> --- C -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> for (;;)
>   {
>       w = *ip++;
>       (**w) ();
>    }
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Where can I find informations like this for Python ?

I don't really grok the assembler code.  The C code seems to assume that
there is an infinitive number of function pointers stored at `*ip`!?

The Python equivalent might be ::

  for w in ip:
    w()

if `ip` is a (finite) sequence of functions or callables in general.

Ciao,
	Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 21 22:34:42 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:34:42 -0400
Subject: coloring a complex number
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2374.1129909589.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2374.1129909589.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4359a337$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Arthur wrote:
> Spending the morning avoiding responsibilities, and seeing what it would
> take to color some complex numbers.
> 
> class color_complex(complex):
>         def  __init__(self,*args,**kws):
>                 complex.__init__(*args)
>                 self.color=kws.get('color', 'BLUE')

In general when you subclass an immutable type you have to override __new__ rather than __init__. There is some explanation and example here:
http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#__new__

Kent


From quiteblack at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 10:16:37 2005
From: quiteblack at gmail.com (quiteblack at gmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 07:16:37 -0700
Subject: how to execute .exe file ?
Message-ID: <1129040197.719729.22460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

hi all~

i used to drive .exe file working by writing a simple batch file, i
thin python may do this as well bu i dunno how to, any help ?



From en.karpachov at ospaz.ru  Mon Oct  3 12:30:35 2005
From: en.karpachov at ospaz.ru (en.karpachov at ospaz.ru)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 20:30:35 +0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com> <R1Y%e.618$2F2.11645
	3@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com> <434084
	3b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99 f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <Xns96E4
	5EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <Xn
	s96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <20051003203035.486348a9.jk@ospaz.ru>

On 3 Oct 2005 13:58:33 GMT
Antoon Pardon wrote:

> People often promote unittesting here. Writing all those unittest is
> an added burden too. But people think this burden is worth it.
> 
> I think writing declaration is also worth it. The gain is not as
> much as with unittesting but neither is the burden, so that
> balances out IMO

+1

Some people just don't get the simple fact that declarations are
essentially kind of unit test you get for free (almost), and the compiler
is a testing framework for them.

-- 
jk


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Mon Oct 17 20:49:35 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:49:35 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<hok7l196igguitu0j35v0vacff4fklu3bb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dkh8l114d1knm1540826hpndr6ohjgd936@4ax.com>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:37:35 -0700, Alan Balmer <albalmer at att.net>
wrote or quoted :

>You've been around long enough to learn to recognize this poster and
>ignore him.

Sounds like your plonk filter is on the fritz then.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From mde at micah.elliott.name  Fri Oct  7 13:48:20 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:48:20 -0700
Subject: Why do I get an import error on this?
In-Reply-To: <1128703953.497560.47620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128703953.497560.47620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051007174820.GI32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 07, Steve wrote:
> I have a simple program:
> ____________________________________________
> 
> #! /home/fergs/python/bin/python
> import sys, os
> import cx_Oracle
> ____________________________________________
> 
> If I run it through the Python interpreter, this way:
> 
>  >> python test.py
> 
> it runs fine.
> 
> But if I try to run it as an executable script, this way:
> 
>  >> test.py
> 
> I get an import error that says it can't find cx_Oracle.

Are "which python" and "/home/fergs/python/bin/python" the same?  If
not, it appears that "which python" can see cx_Oracle, but the latter
cannot.  You could mess with PYTHONPATH or get /home/.../python into the
front of your PATH.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 26 10:32:22 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:32:22 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
References: <mailman.2602.1130336694.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <br1cmjrd.fsf@python.net>

"Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> writes:

> [Sybren Stuvel]

>> You can't resize it horizontally
>
> Well, peculiarly, you can do this (as you're probably aware) from
> the Properties menu and it'll work immediately, albeit without
> advising the running programs that it's resized, so only new
> lines will take advantage of the new width. Now, why they didn't
> let you do the same thing by grabbing the border and pulling, I
> don't know!

FYI, if you don't know this already: You also can resize the console without
going through the properties menu with 'mode con cols=... lines=...'.

Thomas


From david.rasmussen at gmx.net  Sat Oct 29 18:35:25 2005
From: david.rasmussen at gmx.net (David Rasmussen)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 00:35:25 +0200
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130614532.765771.288960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4363f91d$0$2089$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>

netvaibhav at gmail.com wrote:
> I think implementing a finite state automaton would be a good (best?)
> solution. I have drawn a FSM for you (try viewing the following in
> fixed width font). Just increment the count when you reach state 5.
> 
>                     <---------------|
>                    |                |
>         0      0   |  1      0      |0
>  -->[1]--->[2]--->[3]--->[4]--->[5]-|
>      ^ |    |      ^ |     |      |
>     1| |<---|      | |     |1     |1
>      |_|    1      |_|     |      |
>      ^             0       |      |
>      |---------------------|<-----|
> 
> If you don't understand FSM's, try getting a book on computational
> theory (the book by Hopcroft & Ullman is great.)
> 

I already have that book. The above solution very slow in practice. None 
of the solutions presented in this thread is nearly as fast as the

print file("filename", "rb").read().count("\x00\x00\x01\x00")

/David


From kylotan at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 05:13:28 2005
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 02:13:28 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128676408.129888.297840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Paul Rubin wrote:

> Let's see if I understand what you're saying:
>
>     C and Java: you get useful type checking except when you declare
>     a reference as type ANY.  This is a shortcoming compared to:
>
>     Python: where you get no useful type checking at all.
>
> That is not very convincing logic.

It's started to get very misleading - Python gives you plenty of
type-checking, as we all know, just not at compile-time. Also comparing
Python to C/Java as you have done is not very appropriate unless you
want Python to have the same sort of compile times as C and Java do.

I think you're doing a small disservice to respond to Steve when not
acknowledging the context of the thread, where Diez was explaining that
the system used in ML would not work in Python, then Antoon made a
suggestion that would fix that particular problem but make others
worse.

I'm not convinced that the Java route - where you type out lengthy type
declarations to get some compile-time typechecking which you usually
end up having to bypass later anyway - is at all beneficial, at least
not in the context of Python. I can't ever remember a time when I
thought "type checking really saved me from a bug there" when using
C/C++/Java, but I _can_ remember many times where I've had to consider
which cast or conversion to use, or had to write another overloaded
function to accommodate a similar-but-different type, or debug a
complex template message, or add a superfluous base class or interface,
all just to get the kind of genericity that Python gives for free. And
it's no good saying that variable declarations will be optional,
because as soon as these statically-typed variables enter the standard
library, every Python programmer will have to take these considerations
on board when writing their code, whether we want to use them or not.

-- 
Ben Sizer



From chemag at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 14:55:44 2005
From: chemag at gmail.com (chemag at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 11:55:44 -0700
Subject: Question on re.IGNORECASE
Message-ID: <1129834544.533189.301780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm having some problems with basic RE in python. I was wondering
whether
somebody could provide a hint on what's going wrong with the following
script. Comments are included.

TIA.
-myself

> python2.3
Python 2.3.4 (#1, Nov 18 2004, 13:39:30)
[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-39)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import re
>>> pattern = re.compile('.*HTTP/(\d\.\d) *(\d*) *(.*)$')
>>> pattern.search("GGHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n", re.IGNORECASE)
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb75c6ed0>
>>> pattern.search("GHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n", re.IGNORECASE)
# this makes no sense to me. Why is the previous line matched
# and this not?
>>> pattern.search("GHTTP/1.1 200 OK\r\n")
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb758d020>



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  6 10:12:26 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:12:26 -0500
Subject: Absolultely confused...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128608102_115255@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


> If I take out the "!" in the format string and just use "O", I can at
> least get past PyArg_ParseTuple. 

Is this a compile-time error? Or a runtime error?



----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 16:06:27 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 13:06:27 -0700
Subject: Inheritance...
Message-ID: <1129320387.840646.284580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a base class

class geometry(object):
   def __init__(self):
      self.blue = 1
      self.red = 2
   def render(self):
      pass

class square(geometry):
    def __init__(self):
         super(square, self).__init__()
   def render(self)
      print 'square'

class circle(geometry):
    def __init__(self):
         super(square, self).__init__()
   def render(self)
      print 'square'

objLst = []
objLst.append(square())
objLst.append(circle())

for obj in objLst:
   obj.render()
print obj.blue

What is wrong with this... I will not print blue... (1)



From bonono at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 00:18:52 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 21:18:52 -0700
Subject: access dictionary with preferred order ?
Message-ID: <1129954732.769162.62150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am wondering if there is a dictionary data type that allows me to
define the order of access when iterating it using items/keys etc. ?

An example:

a=dict(a=dict(), c=dict(), h=dict())
prefer=['e','h', 'a']

for x in a.values: print x

would give me
{h:dict()}, {a:dict()}, then the rest which I don't care about the
order ?



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct 12 07:23:48 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:23:48 +0200
Subject: Need a spider library
In-Reply-To: <diiqp6$ikq$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <434CE752.8030509@designaproduct.biz> <diiqp6$ikq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <434CF244.2060202@designaproduct.biz>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The question: is there a good library for Python for extraction links and images
>>out  of (possibly malformed) HTML soucre code?
>>    
>>
>
>http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/
>  
>
Thanks a lot! This is just what I wanted. Why it is not part of the 
standard Python library yet? :-)



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Thu Oct 27 06:08:38 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:08:38 +0200
Subject: Sorting with only a partial order definition
In-Reply-To: <djq6r6$b2a$1@sadr.dfn.de>
References: <djq4pn$a1q$1@sadr.dfn.de> <7x64rjs4w8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djq6r6$b2a$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <djq8v6$cbb$1@sadr.dfn.de>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>> Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:
>>
>>> I have a list of items and a "rule" for ordering them.
<snip>

Ok, managed to implement the algorithm. Might not be the optimal 
solution (memory and speed-wise) but it worked and doesn't take too long 
to run either so I'm going to stick with it.

I have a different question though, along the same lines, but one that 
doesn't need a solution, just want to know if something like it exists.

A while back I had an application that had a lot of items that it needed 
to order. The problem, however, was that the rules was not defined at 
all. Instead it was opted for a visual solution where the user would be 
presented with images and had to rearrange them in the order that was 
necessary. The application was one I helped build for a friend which 
combined images from several cameras and allowed him to sort them 
according to the contents so that he could get a timeline formed.

The date/time stamps on the cameras was not directly usable for various 
reasons so the visual ordering was what we ended up on. For instance, 
two of the cameras was not digital ones so they had no timestamp except 
for the one provided by the scanning software.

In that application we talked about presenting the user with two and two 
images and he just had to click on the image that came first. The 
problem with this was to try to present the "right" images to the user 
so that he had to minimize the number of clicks.

In other words, try to pick nodes in the graph and ask the user to 
provide the direction of the edge, and the "picking algorithm" would 
work in such a way that the number of edges would be minimized.

Not sure if I'm explaining it correctly.

The solution we ended up with was to present the user with all the 
images in one big timeline and just let him drag them around. This worked.

What I was wondering about is if there is an algorithm that would do 
what I want? Ie. help me pick the nodes so as to minimize the number of 
edges. Obviously the answer to the first pair of nodes will influence 
which nodes will be subsequently picked, so each answer would stear the 
algorithm in a way, not just go into the final problem.

If anyone got the name of such an algorithm or something I would like to 
look at it at least. Application is built and deployed so I'm not 
looking for a solution to implement.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From frank at chagford.com  Sun Oct  9 05:22:43 2005
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 02:22:43 -0700
Subject: Question about StringIO
Message-ID: <1128849763.117104.34370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi all

I understand that StringIO creates a file-like object in memory.

Is it possible to invoke another program, using os.system() or
os.popen(), and use the < redirect operator, so that the other program
reads my StringIO object as its input?

I will provide more details if required, but hopefully this is enough
for a simple yes or no answer, and if so, how.

BTW, I have tried using popen2() and passing my data via stdin, but the
other program (psql) does not react well to this - again, I will give
more info if necessary.

Thanks

Frank Millman



From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Mon Oct 31 06:26:30 2005
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:26:30 +0100
Subject: Automatically creating a HOME environ variable on Windows?
References: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djvgei$5t7$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<1130590817.728832.291020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<20051029164345.54C1.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
	<slrndmapn1.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <20051031112631.261A.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:

>> Best solution would be to have portable function that returns
>> user home directory and knows about all platfom quirks.
> 
> Why is that better than Python creating a HOME in os.environ, if it
> doesn't
> already exist?  I can think of a few reasons it's better, and a few
> reasons it's worse.

First, it is possible that HOME viariable already exists and has different
meaning, (if python is used as embedded scripting language it can be
defined by application), Second, there is a group of path related functions
in os.path (or ntpath), including expanduser, and its better to use
function than relay on some interpreter behaviour that may be different on
jython or ironpython.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

How come in Scooby Doo Fred and Daphne were always on the same team and   
   Velma, Scooby and Shaggy were always on the same team? Doesn't seem quite 
   right now that you think about it, does it?


From uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com  Sat Oct 22 13:55:15 2005
From: uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com (uid09012_ti at collinsrealtime.com)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 10:55:15 -0700
Subject: Missing modules '_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName'
Message-ID: <1130003715.743391.237890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Hi,

i get the following error message when i use py2exe on my application:

The following modules appear to be missing
['_ssl', 'ext.IsDOMString', 'ext.SplitQName']

I've installed PyXML-0.8.4.win32-py2.4.exe. My version of python is 2.4
I've checked in the pyxml directories and these modules are not there.

Anybody have an idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks,
Martin.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 11:27:49 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:27:49 +0200
Subject: How to separate directory list and file list?
References: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djga5p$74a$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Gonnasi" wrote:

> With
> >glob.glob("*")
>
> or
> >os.listdir(cwd)
>
> I can get a combined file list with directory list, but I just wanna a
> bare file list, no directory list. How to get it?

use os.path.isfile on the result.

    for file in glob.glob("*"):
        if not os.path.isfile(file):
            continue
        ... deal with file ...

    for file in os.listdir(cwd):
        file = os.path.join(cwd, file)
        if not os.path.isfile(file):
            continue
        ... deal with file ...

    files = map(os.path.isfile, glob.glob("*"))

    files = (file for file in os.listdir(cwd) if os.path.isfile(os.path.join(cwd, file)))

etc.

</F>





From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sat Oct  8 18:27:23 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 22:27:23 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <cuhgk1hcg2qolffufmhmghtij72k2v1sdj@4ax.com>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:41:38 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>If you've got a browser with a better solution, what's the browser,
>and what's the solution?

Try Opera. You can merge the two. 
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Oct 25 17:41:55 2005
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:41:55 +0200
Subject: Web based applications are possible with wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <1130273510.778502.107160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2221.1129652612.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129666596.739256.151100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2547.1130250052.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130273510.778502.107160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4el233-np1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

HI!

Shameless plug:
I'm looking for the opposite way. I'd like to run a web application
within a pseudo-browser in wxPython without the need to start a web
server. Is that possible with a thin wrapper?

Ciao, Michael.


From ms at cerenity.org  Sun Oct  2 21:22:22 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 02:22:22 +0100
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net> <dhk1jj$7ri$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <434087a4$0$49795$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

Rocco Moretti wrote:

> That is, what would happen with the following constructs:
> 
> A if B else C if D else F
> A if B if C else D else F

The correct answer should be the person who wrote it would get told off
for writing code that a person reading would have no idea what the code
was doing (without understanding the precedence).

Whilst it's good to have clear understandable, well defined rules for
these things, that's no excuse for having unreadable code that other
people can't read and understand without having to remember obscure
rules.

Personally, I'd hope that any code-linting tools would flag such expressions
as potentially bad because they're not clear. (Whereas bracketed expressions
instantly help here).

Best Regards,


Michael



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 14:51:57 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:51:57 +0200
Subject: Class methods
In-Reply-To: <43441FF2.6000002@designaproduct.biz>
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
	<43441FF2.6000002@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <434420CD.6060908@designaproduct.biz>


>>    
>>
>Oh man, it has been a long time I have read such an disturbing question.
>
>RTMF here:  http://docs.python.org/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-14
>  
>
I feel I was a bit harsh.

class A(object):
    x = 0
    @classmethod
    def f(cls):
       cls.x += 1
       print "x is",cls.x

 >>> A.f()
x is 1
 >>> A.f()
x is 2
 >>> A.f()
x is 3

Ashes to my head. :-(

   Les



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct  3 02:12:33 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:12:33 +0200
Subject: Bwidget for tkinter
References: <1128318804.997697.127310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhqi4m$u26$1@sea.gmane.org>

anil.pundoor at gmail.com wrote:

> hi can i use the bwidgets in tkinter? if so from where can i download
> the bwidget for tk inter. and i want to know the installation procedure

googling for "bwidget for tkinter" gives you a library announcement as
the first hit, which points to this page:

    http://tkinter.unpythonic.net/bwidget/

</F>





From axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk  Sun Oct 16 05:59:04 2005
From: axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk (axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:59:04 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Ivp4f.30929$ey6.7820@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In comp.lang.perl.misc Matt Garrish <matthew.garrish at sympatico.ca> wrote:

>> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about browser
>> wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion dollar a year
>> market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
 
> It may not be worth loads of money in-and-of itself now (don't forget 
> Netscape wasn't always free, though), but if you control how people view the 
> Internet you can make a lot of money in other ways, especially if you build 
> your browser into your operating system and warp standards so that people 
> who design sites take advantage of the proprietary features. Eventually the 
> hope is that your OS and browser will become the only means of accessing the 
> internet. And if your OS and browser are the only way to access the 
> Internet, who in their right mind would use another system?

There was a time in the early-mid 1990s that Microsoft was making noises
about setting up a 'commercial Internet' through which they hoped
to control all online trading (with a percentage of each transaction
going to themselves of course). I forget the exact details but it
seemed a very real suggestion at the time.

Axel
 


From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Sat Oct  1 06:42:46 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 03:42:46 -0700
Subject: Nufox : Xul  + Python
Message-ID: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

You can test Nufox (with Firefox) at :

http://artyprog.no-ip.org

Regards



From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct  9 10:26:53 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:26:53 GMT
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <NM92f.180798$p_1.25343@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 15:20:12 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ok, so I thought, how about creating a decorator that caches the 
>>function results and retrieves them from cache if possible, otherwise it 
>>calls the function and store the value in the cache for the next invokation.
>>
>>This is what I came up with so far:
>>
>>def cache_function(fn):
>>     cache = {}
>>     def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
>>         if args in cache:
>>             return cache[args]
>>         result = fn(*args, **kwargs)
>>         cache[args] = result
>>         return result
>>     return cached_result
> 
> 
> I'm curious... where does cache live after you use cache_function to
> memoize some function? It doesn't appear to be an attribute of the newly
> memoized function, nor does it look like a global variable.

If I understand this correctly...

     if args in cache:

Creates a local binding to the "cache" object that gets returned with 
the cashed_result function the same as...

     result = fn(*args, **kwargs)

  ... the function 'fn' does here.  So they remain local bindings to 
objects in the scope they were first referenced from even after the 
function is returned.  In effect, 'cache' and 'fn' are replaced by the 
objects they reference before the cached_result function is returned.

Is this correct?

Cheers,
    Ron


From RedGrittyBrick at SpamWeary.foo  Fri Oct 28 15:23:15 2005
From: RedGrittyBrick at SpamWeary.foo (RedGrittyBrick)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:23:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Typing tutor help script needed, please
In-Reply-To: <1130524414.324191.233380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130507926.729061.125850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130524414.324191.233380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djttr3$oqi$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

<reinstated the context that was omitted by SPE>

 > Throw wrote:
 >> I must be able to extract words which contain only
 >> certain letters (they need not contain all of those letters,
 >> but they may not contain any other letters).

SPE - Stani's Python Editor wrote:
> #---Input data
> 
> #List of words; every word or sentence on one line
> #If from file: WORDS = open(fileName).readlines()
> WORDS = """\
> Afrikaans
> Anna
> Bread
> red
> word
> bored
> python""".split('\n')
> 
> #---Main program
> import re
> 
> PATTERN         = ['[^(%s)]+','[%s]+']
> FILENAME        = ['not_%s.txt','%s.txt']
> 
> def filter(letters='bdeor',words=WORDS,contain=True,ignoreCase=True):
>     pattern     = PATTERN[contain]%'|'.join(list(letters))
>     if ignoreCase:
>         allowed = re.compile(pattern,re.IGNORECASE)
>     else:
>         allowed = re.compile(pattern)
>     result      = []
>     for word in words:
>         match   = allowed.match(word)
>         if match and match.group(0) == word: result.append(word)
>     print result
>     output      = open(FILENAME[contain]%letters,'w')
>     output.write('\n'.join(result))
>     output.close()
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     filter()
> 
> ---------------
> This should do it.
> 

Am I underestimating the task, it looks simple enough for the simplest grep?

# perl -n -e "print if /^[bdeor]+$/i" words.txt
red
bored


From dotpyFE at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 17:24:29 2005
From: dotpyFE at gmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:24:29 GMT
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
In-Reply-To: <1129186265.871236.166670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129170241.274868.45680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diks73$ck5$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
	<1129186265.871236.166670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hKd5f.16633$QE1.11275@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

[snip]

> Thanks. I didn't know there's also a sort function in Python (2.4),
> besides the method. (i've mentioned your name as acknowledgement at my
> website essay)

[snip]

With his permission, of course...

-- 
--------------------------
Lucas Raab
lvraab"@"earthlink.net
dotpyFE"@"gmail.com
AIM:	Phoenix11890
MSN:	dotpyfe "@" gmail.com
IRC:	lvraab
ICQ:	324767918
Yahoo:	Phoenix11890


From tim at tt1lock.org  Sat Oct  8 13:15:11 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:15:11 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<91h5k1lt7qf83ce823fhs7ph9to3a4gput@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Io1x9B.AL8@bath.ac.uk>

Alan Balmer <albalmer at att.net> wrote or quoted:
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:14:45 GMT, Roedy Green

> >I try to explain Java each day both on my website on the plaintext
> >only newsgroups. It is so much easier to get my point across in HTML.
> >
> >Program listings are much more readable on my website.
> 
> My copy of javac seems to prefer plain text, and so do I ;-)

Plain text is a badly impoverished medium for explaining things in.

For one thing, code on my web site tends to get syntax highlighted.
There's no way I could do that in plain text.
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct 20 12:29:34 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:29:34 -0500
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Fq2dnc65T9RsWMreRVn-gQ@comcast.com>

I would try to live with time scale being fixed and insert
None (or whatever value is used by charting package) for
times where observations were not taken.  This will mean that
you have to preprocess your data by determining a time step
step value that will fit your data.  If you get 3 observations
each 10 minutes apart then one an hour later, you will need to
insert 5 empty observations in the list before the last
observation.

Example:

1:00 <value1>
1:10 <value2>
1:20 <value3>
2:20 <value4>

1:00 <value1>
1:10 <value2>
1:20 <value3>
1:30 <empty value>
1:40 <empty value>
1:50 <empty value>
2:00 <empty value>
2:10 <empty value>
2:20 <value4>

Maybe this will be of some help and I'm sure there are other ways.

-Larry

nephish at xit.net wrote:
> Hey there,
> i have tried about every graphing package for python i can get to work
> on my system. gnuplot, pychart, biggles, gdchart, etc.. (cant get
> matplot to work)
> so far, they all are working ok. I need to make an x y chart for some
> data that comes in from sensors at different times durring the day. i
> need it to show the value in the y and the time in the x .  no problem
> so far. But what i cannot get to happen is to scale x (time of the
> plot) with respect to time. in other words, i get a chart with the
> times evenly spaced out along the x axis, with their respective values.
> i need the chart to show gaps when there are gaps in the data. i need
> it to be able to scale by time. if i have 3 values that come in within
> a few minutes, i need them to be displayed close together, as compared
> to another value that may come in, say, an hour later. Does this make
> sence ?
> one of you guys know a charting app that will do this ? or is there
> some other way i could do it?
> 
> looking for suggestions,
> sk
> 


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 20:17:04 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:17:04 +0200
Subject: wxPython & Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <434e8dbf$0$452$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
References: <434e8dbf$0$452$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <3r8bo1Fi9etjU1@uni-berlin.de>

Gilles DRIDI wrote:
> Does someone has installed wxPython on the Cygwin platform, environment ?

Why? Use windows python, wxPython for it - and put it in your path to 
use it inside cygwin.

But maybe you _can_ compile it yourself - I didn't try, though.

Diez


From noahlt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 14:12:24 2005
From: noahlt at gmail.com (noahlt at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 11:12:24 -0800
Subject: Function returns none
Message-ID: <1130785944.632805.156810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to write a website updating script, but when I run the
script, my function to search the DOM tree returns None instead of what
it should.

I have this program:
--------
import sys
from xml.dom.minidom import parse


# search the tree for an element with a particular class

def findelement(current, classtofind, topnode = None):
    if topnode == None: topnode = current



    # if it's an xml element...
    if current.nodeType == 1:
        print current.nodeName, ':', current.getAttribute('class')
        if current.getAttribute('class') == classtofind:
            print 'Returning node:', current
            return current
        elif current.hasChildNodes():
            findelement(current.firstChild, classtofind, topnode)
        elif current.nextSibling:
            findelement(current.nextSibling, classtofind, topnode)

        elif (current.parentNode != topnode) \

                 and (current.parentNode.nextSibling != None):

            findelement(current.parentNode.nextSibling, classtofind,
topnode)
        else:

            print 'Returning None...'

            return None

    # others (text, comment, etc)

    else:

        if current.nextSibling:

            findelement(current.nextSibling, classtofind, topnode)

        elif (current.parentNode != topnode) \

                 and (current.parentNode.nextSibling != None):

            findelement(current.parentNode.nextSibling, classtofind,
topnode)
        else:

            print 'Returning None...'

            return None



# parse the document

blog = parse('/home/noah/dev/blog/template.html')



# find a post

postexample = findelement(blog.documentElement, 'post')



print 'Got node:       ', postexample

-----

My output is this:

-----
html :
head :
title :
body :
h1 :
ul :
li :
h2 :
ol :
li : post
Returning node: <DOM Element: li at -0x48599c74>
Got node:        None
-----

The function finds the right element fine, and says it will return <DOM
Element: li at -0x48599c74>, but the program gets None instead.  What's
happening here?  Any suggestions?



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 03:09:30 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:09:30 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1067.1127905522.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.28.12.30.17.289957@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.1076.1127910493.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h436qg.bo0dpp1gkc4u6N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Simon Brunning <simon.brunning at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/28/05, Steven D'Aprano <steve at removethiscyber.com.au> wrote:
> > > If *real* private and protected are *enforced*, Python will be the
> > > poorer for it. See
> > > <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/b977ed1312e10b21>.
> >
> > That's a wonderful, if long, essay.
> 
> That's the Martellibot for you. Never use a word where a paragraph
> with explanatory footnotes will do.
> 
> Sigh. I miss him on c.l.py.

Why, thanks -- it's sweet to be missed!-)  I also had fun rereading that
little piece of mine...

Unfortunately my current presence is probably a somewhat short-lived
phenomenon (I just need a breather right now, but I'll have to plunge
back into Google work AND writing the 2nd edition of the Nutshell
soon...), but, for a short while, I'm back!


Alex


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 13 11:10:37 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:10:37 +0200
Subject: graphic memory & animation
References: <001201c5cff3$b2d67990$0a01a8c0@NEWLAT>
Message-ID: <diltdf$4km$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Peres" wrote:

> Python is great!... but the erasing of the graphic memory is slow (I used
> surf.fill from Pygame).

define slow.

> Does anyone know how to erase the screen faster, in animated graphics?

if you're doing animation on modern hardware, there's hardly any
reason not to use double buffering.  (and if you cannot get pygame
to do fast clear and copy operations, you must be using the wrong
API)

</F>





From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Oct  9 23:12:00 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:12:00 -0400
Subject: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <4349CF82.7040909@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <20051010031200.3914.826437948.divmod.quotient.26178@ohm>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:18:42 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <steve at removemecyber.com.au> wrote:
>George Sakkis wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:00:04 +0300, Ville Voipio wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I would need to make some high-reliability software
>>>>running on Linux in an embedded system. Performance
>>>>(or lack of it) is not an issue, reliability is.
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>The software should be running continously for
>>>>practically forever (at least a year without a reboot).
>>>>Is the Python interpreter (on Linux) stable and
>>>>leak-free enough to achieve this?
>>>
>>>If performance is really not such an issue, would it really matter if you
>>>periodically restarted Python? Starting Python takes a tiny amount of time:
>>
>>
>> You must have missed or misinterpreted the "The software should be
>> running continously for practically forever" part. The problem of
>> restarting python is not the 200 msec lost but putting at stake
>> reliability (e.g. for health monitoring devices, avionics, nuclear
>> reactor controllers, etc.) and robustness (e.g. a computation that
>> takes weeks of cpu time to complete is interrupted without the
>> possibility to restart from the point it stopped).
>
>
>Er, no, I didn't miss that at all. I did miss that it
>needed continual network connections. I don't know if
>there is a way around that issue, although mobile
>phones move in and out of network areas, swapping
>connections when and as needed.
>
>But as for reliability, well, tell that to Buzz Aldrin
>and Neil Armstrong. The Apollo 11 moon lander rebooted
>multiple times on the way down to the surface. It was
>designed to recover gracefully when rebooting unexpectedly:
>
>http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11.1201-pa.html
>

This reminds me of crash-only software:

  http://www.stanford.edu/~candea/papers/crashonly/crashonly.html

Which seems to have some merits.  I have yet to attempt to develop any large scale software explicitly using this technique (although I have worked on several systems that very loosely used this approach; eg, a server which divided tasks into two processes, with one restarting the other whenever it noticed it was gone), but as you point out, there's certainly precedent.

Jp


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct  4 08:08:09 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:08:09 +0200
Subject: What is executed when in a generator
References: <dhtq5k$62c$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <dhtrb9$25m$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:

> Could you tell me please where can I read something in depth about the
> semantics of generators? I feel a bit lost.

the behaviour is described in the language reference manual:

    http://docs.python.org/ref/yield.html

    "When a generator function is called, it returns an iterator known as a
    generator iterator, or more commonly, a generator. The body of the
    generator function is executed by calling the generator's next()
    method repeatedly until it raises an exception."

the above page points to the design document, which contains the full
story:

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0255.html

    "When a generator function is called, the actual arguments are bound to
    function-local formal argument names in the usual way, but no code in
    the body of the function is executed.  Instead a generator-iterator
    object is returned; this conforms to the iterator protocol /.../

    Each time the .next() method of a generator-iterator is invoked, the
    code in the body of the generator-function is executed until a yield
    or return statement (see below) is encountered, or until the end of
    the body is reached."

</F> 





From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Fri Oct  7 12:06:47 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 09:06:47 -0700
Subject: Python 2nd favorite language in Linux Journal poll
In-Reply-To: <1128692292.832209.66860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128692292.832209.66860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128701207.508209.231450@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hm, you didn't include a link and my google did not find the final
results.

The results are fluctuating very much. This suggests a small number of
votes. Linux Journal may be a big magazine, but i don't think language
opinions change that fast.

The vote is all done by email this year, which is another strange thing.



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 23:19:48 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:19:48 +1000
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
References: <mailman.1738.1128737194.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.03.19.47.594415@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:06:31 -0400, Ivan Shevanski wrote:

> Right but see what if the user wants to type Start? I've already used the 
> number menu but too many people get confused by it. . .Any other ideas?

Then let them type either the word or the number. Don't penalise your
smart users because of your stupid ones. And don't make the stupid ones
suffer because of the smart ones.


def make_menu(words):
    """Takes a list of words and prints a text menu.
    Items are numbered from 1 onwards, not zero.
    """
    for i in len(words):
        print ("%d:%s" % i+1, words[i])

def check_response(response, words, default=None):
    """Tests the user response against the list of words.

    Accepts either a number, or the entire word, or the first letter of
    the word *provided it is not ambiguous*. An optional default can be
    given.

    Returns the _index_ of the word entered, counting from zero.
    """
    s = response.strip().lower()
    if s == "":  # user just hit Enter
        if default is not None:
             s = default.strip().lower()
    for i in len(words):
        if s == str(i+1): 
            return i
        if s == words[i].lower():
            return i
        if s == words[i].lower()[0]:
            # the user response is a single letter, and it matches
            # the current word, so we check for ambiguity
            n = count_matches(s, words)
            if n == 1:
                return i
            # otherwise there could be two or more matches
    # if we get here, nothing matched
    return -1


def count_matches(s, words):
    temp = [word.lower().startswith(s) for word in words]
    return len(temp)


def get_response(commands):
    make_menu(commands)
    raw_response = raw_choice("> ")
    choice = check_response(raw_response, commands, default="start")
    if choice == -1:
        # the response matched either nothing, or too many things
        print "I don't understand your response. Please try again."
        return get_response(commands)
    else:
        return choice


Now finally use the whole thing:

(warning, code is untested)

commands = ["Start", "End", "Scratch head", "Burp"]
cmd = get_response(commands)
do_some_command(commands[cmd])


This should accept any combination of:

1 "start" <enter>
2 "end" "e"
3 "scratch head"
4 "burp" "b"

in any mix of upper and lower case.

Hope this works for you.


-- 
Steven.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 13 02:07:28 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:07:28 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<od9rk19sjg2ntd34tb7hkpvla2mq7ob71h@4ax.com>
	<86vf02uhae.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <f4urk19osotr10huvsec8m81ulluut9k0u@4ax.com>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:17:45 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>
>No, that's what makes email a vector for infection. What makes using
>the address book - for whatever purpose - possible for viruses is
>having an API that allows arbitrary code to access it. But you have to
>have that API - your customers are going to insist that they be able
>to use their address book from third party applications.

An automated change of address is possible today. It would be LESS
easy to pull off under the scheme I proposed that requires digital
signatures.

Yes there are some downsides to a theoretical attack where phony
change of address messages are sent out. They don't propagate. They
don't corrupt. They are self healing when the original guy gets his
virus problem under control.

But you must balance that against the REAL downside of people's
address books being filled with obsolete email addresses.  And of
course one of the reasons they are is people keep changing their email
addresses to hide on spam.  I am just saving as lot of busy work
keeping them up to date.


-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From jason at pengale.com  Wed Oct 19 23:12:23 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:12:23 -0500
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <F6A69CAD-81D4-4D94-88F9-A3011CBCFFA8@pengale.com>

On Oct 19, 2005, at 9:18 PM, grunar at gmail.com wrote:

<snip>

> My solution is sqlstring. A single-purpose library: to create SQL
> statement objects. These objects (such as sqlstring.Select), represent
> complex SQL Statements, but as Python objects.

<snip>

First of all, I like this idea. I've been thinking about doing  
something similar but am stuck with SQLObject for the moment. The  
ability to construct complex expressions in pieces and then mix and  
match them would be killer.

I think some operator overloading, especially the obvious cases like  
==, is cleaner than using only functions because it lets you order  
things normally. But some of the operator choices are non-intuitive.  
Personally, I would make something like 'alias' a function or class,  
rather than overloading XOR. Not sure about ** for where.

Using // for 'in' looks really weird, too. It's too bad you can't  
overload Python's 'in' operator. (Can you? It seems to be hard-coded  
to iterate through an iterable and look for the value, rather than  
calling a private method like some other builtins do.)

Also, you have to be really careful of operator precedence.

Have you ever used Pyparsing? Its use of a combination of classes and  
operator overloading works pretty well.

For SQL function calls, don't you also want to support stored  
procedures? In that case, you don't want pre-set magic functions so  
much as a function that takes a string parameter for a function name  
and then a list of function parameters.

>>>> print person_smith("party_id", "first_name") \
>>>>
> < < model.address ** (\
> model.address.party_id == model.person.party_id)
> SELECT
> party_id party_id,
> first_name first_name,
> address.*
> FROM
> [person] person
> LEFT OUTER JOIN [address] address ON
> address.party_id = person.party_id
> WHERE person.first_name = 'Smith'

See, this is where I'm not sure about operator precedence. If <<  
binds tighter than **, it works, because the << operator would make a  
'join' object and then the ** could be interpreted as an 'on' clause.  
But if ** binds tighter you get an extra 'where' clause on the  
address table, and then a join...

Some functions might be more workable.

- Jason



From philippknuesel at yahoo.de  Tue Oct  4 10:24:34 2005
From: philippknuesel at yahoo.de (Philipp)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:24:34 +0200
Subject: Which SQL module to use?
In-Reply-To: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43428c0a$1_2@news.cybercity.ch>

mrstephengross schrieb:
> I'd like to do some basic SQL stuff in Python. It seems like there are
> a heck of a lot of SQL modules for Python. What's the simplest and
> easiest one to use?
> 
> Thanks,
> --Steve (mrstephengross at hotmail.com)
> 

Do you have any DBMS in mind?

Philipp


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 19 16:04:09 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:04:09 +0200
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj68ru$uie$1@sea.gmane.org>

pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com wrote:

> So I want to define a method that takes a "boolean" in a module, eg.
>
> def getDBName(l2):
> ...
>
> Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?

no.  variables are bound to objects, and objects have types.

> Eg.
> x = 10 # makes it an INT

no.  that binds the name "x" to an integer object.

> whereas
> x = "hello" # makes it a string

no.  that (re)binds the name "x" to a string object.

> I take it, the parameters to a function (in the above example "l2") are
> bound in the definition, rather than as invoked.

not sure what you're saying here.  when you call a function, each parameter
is bound to the object represented by the corresponding argument.

> So, if I use "l2" thus:
>
> if (l2): # only then does it make it a boolean?

no. that queries the object to see if it's "true".

> and if I did,
>
> if (l2 = "hello"): # would it become string?

no.  that's a syntax error; if you fix that, it queries the object to see
how compares itself to the given string object.

> Elucidate please.

reset your brain:

    http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm

</F>





From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:05:45 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 05:05:45 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <87ll0hlu4c.fsf@ieee.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130225565.592108.197670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2525.1130232656.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130237717.557334.277910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<87ll0hlu4c.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1130241945.093223.25210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

> but what is the reason for so much capturing groups?  I
> imagine that coding this and keeping code maintenable is a huge effort.

User input is compiled to regular expressions. The user does not have
to worry about those groups.



From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 14:48:18 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:48:18 +0200
Subject: Class methods
In-Reply-To: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>
Message-ID: <43441FF2.6000002@designaproduct.biz>

Hughes, Chad O wrote:

> Is there any way to create a class method?  I can create a class 
> variable like this:
>
...

> Any ideas? 
>
Oh man, it has been a long time I have read such an disturbing question.

RTMF here:  http://docs.python.org/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-14

  Les



From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 00:02:00 2005
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (mirandacascade at yahoo.com)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 21:02:00 -0700
Subject: handling ExpatError exception raised from ElementTree.XML() method
In-Reply-To: <1130425257.683957.130440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130386520.772048.117530@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1130425257.683957.130440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130472119.971533.201190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Mr. Boddie's suggestions work as indicated...many thanks.

It's not clear how a grep of the site-packages directory revealed the
most likely location of the ExpatError class is xml.parsers.expat.

Using XP's search utility, I searched for any files within the
c:\python24\ folder structure that had 'ExpatError' somewhere in the
file (I specified a case sensitive search.)  That search found nothing.
 I modified the search to look for any files with 'expat' (not case
sensitive.)...it located the file Mr. Boddie
mentioned...\lib\xml\parsers\expat.py.  That file has only a few lines
of code...it appears to import all the objects from what I'm guessing
is the pyexpat extension module.  I'm guessing that ExpatError is
embedded within that extension module...is that a correct guess?

It's not clear how Mr. Boddie was able to surmise where ExpatError
resides given that a case sensitive search of the folder structure
didn't find any files containing 'ExpatError'.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 20:22:04 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:22:04 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <od9rk19sjg2ntd34tb7hkpvla2mq7ob71h@4ax.com>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:46:12 GMT, Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org>  wrote
or quoted :

>Viruses can mail out change of address messages to everyone in the
>compromised machine's address book today.
>
>Of course, viruses don't bother doing that - since it's stupid and
>pointless.

A virus is interested in the address book mainly if there as a way it
can send itself to other machines, get at their address book in a
fission explosion and spread without human intervention.

The key that makes that possible is Microsoft's features for running
self-executing code in emails.  That is the problem. It has nothing to
do with formatting or pictures.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Wed Oct 19 15:53:00 2005
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:53:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs
References: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj686s$srf$1@news.island.liu.se>

"Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:

> The "Throws an error exception" should be "Throws an OSError
> exception".

Both are correct:

    >>> os.error is OSError
    True

That is even documented in http://python.org/doc/lib/module-os.html:

    error
	This exception is raised when a function returns a system-related
	error (not for illegal argument types or other incidental errors).
	This is also known as the built-in exception OSError.

> i think the function shouldn't complain if dir already exists. How is a
> programer to distinguish if the dir already exists, or if there's a
> problem creating the dir?

Also in the documentation about os.error:

	The accompanying value is a pair containing the numeric error
	code from errno and the corresponding string, as would be printed
	by the C function perror().  See the module errno, which contains
	names for the error codes defined by the underlying operating
	system.

	When exceptions are classes, this exception carries two attributes,
	errno and strerror.  The first holds the value of the C errno
	variable, and the latter holds the corresponding error message
	from strerror().  For exceptions that involve a file system path
	(such as chdir() or unlink()), the exception instance will
	contain a third attribute, filename, which is the file name
	passed to the function.

Thus, this gives you the behaviour you want:

    try:
	os.makedirs("/tmp/trh/spam/norwegian/blue/parrot/cheese")
    except os.error, e:
	if e.errno != errno.EEXIST:
	    raise


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an   !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 unarmed person."                            !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From bonono at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 23:55:40 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 20:55:40 -0700
Subject: How can I call a subclass method from parent class ?
Message-ID: <1129780540.378921.269250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Suppose my class definition is like this :

class A:
    name = "A"

    @classmethod
    def foo(cls):
        cls.__super.foo()
        cls.bar()

    @classmethod
    def bar(cls):
        print cls.name

class B(A):
    name = "B"

class C(B):
    name = "C"

What I want is

C.foo() prints 'ABC'
B.foo() prints 'BC'
A.foo() prints 'A'

But when I call C.foo(), it said

AttributeError: class C has no attribute '_A__super'

How should this be coded ?



From j.e.geach at durham.ac.uk  Fri Oct  7 16:40:06 2005
From: j.e.geach at durham.ac.uk (jeg)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 13:40:06 -0700
Subject: 2d array slicing problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1717.1128711839.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128704653.953332.218930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1128711839.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128717606.166198.138670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

thanks, i ran it -- the only difference i got was the numarray version:
1.1.1 on the 686, and 1.3.3 on the 64bit... but i wouldn't have thought
that would make too much difference.



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct  4 03:35:07 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 07:35:07 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 06:59:04 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Well I'm a bit getting sick of those references to standard idioms.
>> There are moments those standard idioms don't work, while the
>> gist of the OP's remark still stands like:
>> 
>>   egold = 0:
>>   while egold < 10:
>>     if test():
>>       ego1d = egold + 1
>
> for item in [x for x in xrange(10) if test()]:
>
> But it isn't about the idioms. It is about the trade-offs. Python allows
> you to do things that you can't do in other languages because you
> have much more flexibility than is possible with languages that
> require you to declare variables before using them. The cost is, some
> tiny subset of possible errors will not be caught by the compiler. But
> since the compiler can't catch all errors anyway, you need to test for
> errors and not rely on the compiler. No compiler will catch this error:
>
> x = 12.0 # feet
> # three pages of code
> y = 15.0 # metres
> # three more pages of code
> distance = x + y
> if distance < 27:
>     fire_retro_rockets()
>
> And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
> early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
> employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.

Using (unit)tests will not guarantee that your programs is error free.

So if sooner or later a (unit)tested program causes a problem, will you
then argue that we should abondon tests, because tests won't catch
all errors.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Thu Oct 20 18:21:59 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:21:59 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510202238570.13901@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Amol Vaidya wrote:

> "Casey Hawthorne" <caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca> wrote in message
> news:02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug at 4ax.com...
>
>> What languages do you know already? What computer science concepts do 
>> you know? What computer programming concepts do you know? Have you 
>> heard of Scheme?

Good questions!

>> Ruby is a bit Perl like -- so if you like Perl, chances are you might 
>> like Ruby.

I don't think rubyists would appreciate that description. Ruby may be 
heavier on the funky symbols than python, but it's a very clean, elegant, 
usable, well-thought-out and deeply object-oriented language - in other 
words, nothing at all like perl.

>> Python is more like Java.

Python is *nothing* like java.

>> I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
>> about
>> 10,000 lines in C++
>> it is about
>> 5,000 lines in Java
>> and it is about
>> 3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)

ITYM 300. Yes, ruby too.

> I've done a lot of studying on my own, and taken the classes that my 
> high-school offers. I feel that I have a fairly good understanding of 
> Java, and basic OO concepts due to that. I've created some semi-complex 
> programs in java, in my opinion, such as networked checkers, 8-player 
> blackjack, a space-shooter type game, a copy of mario (one level, 
> anyway), and some other stuff. I've also done a bit of studying on C. 
> I've done a few projects in C, including another space-shooter type of 
> game using SDL, an IRC client and some simple database-type programs. I 
> also gave a shot at assembly using NASM for x86 before, but didn't get 
> too far. I wrote some trivial code -- wrote to the video buffer, played 
> with some bios interrupts, stuff like that. The only thing I did in 
> assembly was create a program that loads at boot-up, and loads another 
> program that just reiterates whatever you type in. I only did that 
> because I was curious. That's about as far as my programming 
> knowledge/experience goes.

An excellent start!

> Well, I'm not sure what you mean by programming concepts. I'm familiar 
> with OO through Java, and procedural programming through C. I'd be more 
> detailed, but I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. Sorry.

I think i know what Casey means, but i don't know if i can explain it any 
better. Do you understand the concept orthogonality? The Once And Only 
Once principle? Have you ever heard of design patterns?

> I have no idea what Scheme is, but I'll cettainly look it up as soon as 
> I'm done writing this.

You won't like it. Give yourself another 5-10 years, and you might start 
to find it strangely intriguing.

> I've never given Perl a shot. It was another language I considered 
> learning, but my father's friend told me to go with Python or Ruby.

Your father has good friends.

> Thanks for your help. Hopefully I wasn't too lengthy in this post.

Lengthy is fine!

Anyway, the upshot of all this is that, yes, you should learn python. 
Python is dope!

tom

-- 
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END


From usgog at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 15:34:16 2005
From: usgog at yahoo.com (usgog at yahoo.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 12:34:16 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
In-Reply-To: <1130527656.685340.235470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3s7620FlqdmnU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1130521026.584455.288370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86slule9vy.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1130527656.685340.235470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130528056.505938.272120@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Got it, thanks all!



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:11:38 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:11:38 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
	<tluik1ttskfsqb175v3gma36848liub5da@4ax.com>
	<86ek6ul1c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <3h2rk1t88f5pvpc9smmrid93fae3pcop4p@4ax.com>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:25:46 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>The downside is that I have no idea how many people try to contact me
>out of the blue, or from an address other than the one I sent mail to,
>but don't bother to answer the response. 

This is why I wanted a protocol where that was automated.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct  6 03:15:17 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:15:17 GMT
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <4344cb80.3326636800@news.oz.net>

On 5 Oct 2005 08:23:53 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:

>Op 2005-10-05, Tom Anderson schreef <twic at urchin.earth.li>:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>>   class Tree:
>>>>
>>>>     def __lt__(self, term):
>>>>       return set(self.iteritems()) < set(term.iteritems())
>>>>
>>>>     def __eq__(self, term):
>>>>       return set(self.iteritems()) == set(term.iteritems())
>>>>
>>>> Would this be a correct definition of the desired behaviour?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> In [1]: {1:2} < {3:4}
>>> Out[1]: True
>>>
>>> In [2]: set({1:2}.iteritems()) < set({3:4}.iteritems())
>>> Out[2]: False
>>>
>>>> Anyone a reference?
>>>
>>> The function dict_compare in dictobject.c .
>>
>> Well there's a really helpful answer. I'm intrigued, Robert - since you 
>> know the real answer to this question, why did you choose to tell the 
>> Antoon that he was wrong, not tell him in what way he was wrong, certainly 
>> not tell him how to be right, but just tell him to read the source, rather 
>> than simply telling him what you knew? Still, at least you told him which 
>> file to look in. And if he knows python but not C, or gets lost in the 
>> byzantine workings of the interpreter, well, that's his own fault, i 
>> guess.
>>
>> So, Antoon, firstly, your implementation of __eq__ is, i believe, correct.
>>
>> Your implementation of __lt__ is, sadly, not. While sets take "<" to mean 
>> "is a proper subset of", for dicts, it's a more conventional comparison 
>> operation, which constitutes a total ordering over all dicts (so you can 
>> sort with it, for example). However, since dicts don't really have a 
>> natural total ordering, it is ever so slightly arbitrary.
>>
>> The rules for ordering on dicts are, AFAICT:
>>
>> - If one dict has fewer elements than the other, it's the lesser
>> - If not, find the smallest key for which the two dicts have different 
>> values (counting 'not present' as a value)
>> -- If there is no such key, the dicts are equal
>> -- If the key is present in one dict but not the other, the dict in which 
>> it is present is the lesser
>> -- Otherwise, the dict in which the value is lesser is itself the lesser
>>
>> In code:
>>
>> def dict_cmp(a, b):
>>  	diff = cmp(len(a), len(b))
>>  	if (diff != 0):
>>  		return diff
>>  	for key in sorted(set(a.keys() + b.keys())):
>>  		if (key not in a):
>>  			return 1
>>  		if (key not in b):
>>  			return -1
>>  		diff = cmp(a[key], b[key])
>>  		if (diff != 0):
>>  			return diff
>>  	return 0
>>
>
>Thanks for the explanation, but you somehow give me too much.
>
>I have been searching some more and finally stumbled on this:
>
>http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html
>
>  Mappings (dictionaries) compare equal if and only if their sorted
>  (key, value) lists compare equal. Outcomes other than equality are
>  resolved consistently, but are not otherwise defined.
>
"other outcomes" may not in general mean orderings are defined,
even when  ==  and != are well defined. E.g., below

>This seems to imply that the specific method to sort the dictionaries
>is unimported (as long as it is a total ordering). So I can use whatever
>method I want as long as it is achieves this.
>
>But that is contradicted by the unittest. If you have a unittest for
>comparing dictionaries, that means comparing dictionaries has a
>testable characteristic and thus is further defined.
>
>So I don't need a full implementation of dictionary comparison,
>I need to know in how far such a comparison is defined and
>what I can choose.
>
A couple of data points that may be of interest:

 >>> {'a':0j} < {'a':1j}
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=

and
 >>> cmp(0j, 1j)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=

but
 >>> {'a':0j} == {'a':1j}
 False
 >>> {'a':1j} == {'a':1j}
 True

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct  2 18:10:58 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 18:10:58 -0400
Subject: what does 0 mean in MyApp(0)
In-Reply-To: <1128102240.452942.180890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128089733.684329.101320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dhjiih$kvc$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<1128102240.452942.180890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfWdnZFjUI72xt3eRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Alex wrote:
> Thanks for the replies. It seems that I have three options
> 1. app=MyApp()
> 2. app=MyApp(0)
> 3. app=MyApp('myfile.txt')

I just want to emphasize the part of vincent's reply in which he points 
out that using the keyword arguments makes this more readable.

If more examples and actual code would just use the darned "redirect=" 
keyword argument, you probably wouldn't have had to ask the question.

I remember when I had the same question and spent more time than I 
should have had to digging out the answer.  Now I try to make sure that 
all my wx.Apps are initialized with redirect=False or whatever else I 
need to make clear to a reader what I'm doing.  For some widely used and 
understood methods and constructors, using positional arguments might be 
adequate.  For ones like wx.App where everyone initializes them but 
nobody seems to know what the arguments are doing (sometimes they seem 
to be handed down from earlier generations), keyword arguments are a 
real blessing.

The world needs more keyword arguments.  Use them everywhere!  ;-)

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct  7 12:40:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 18:40:54 +0200
Subject: Objects with different data views
References: <pan.2005.10.07.16.52.21.660639@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <di68en$l9i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> It is important that there are no privileged attributes, e.g. in the
> above example, I can set any of x, y, z, r, theta or phi and all the
> others will automatically reflect the changes.

http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm#properties

</F>





From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Wed Oct 19 11:01:43 2005
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 08:01:43 -0700
Subject: path
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2253.1129724537.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2253.1129724537.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129734103.538404.246610@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


The python help function does not use python23.chm, which is a windows
only help file. You must open it from a menu item or the desktop
explorer. It does contain an entry for "and".

Other platforms usually have documentation in html format, which is why
you get a confusing error message.

Regards, Paul Clinch



From davids at webmaster.com  Fri Oct 28 21:17:05 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:17:05 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:86oe59e57v.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>> news:86zmoufiww.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...

>>> The quote about the mafia doesn't compare MS's actions to "actual use
>>> of force".

>>     I'm sorry, that's just absurd. I won't speculate on what motivates 
>> you
>> to engage in such crazy distortion. Of course the quote about the Mafia
>> compares MS's actions to actual use of force.

> Maybe true, maybe not - but it doesn't matter. The point is that you
> respond to *every* comparison of MS with other criminals as a
> comparison to "criminals with guns", and then refuse to discuss the
> issue, with utter disregard as to what the other person said. That you
> might be right in one case is irrelevant - we're talking about a
> pattern of behavior.

    That is not true. I make a serious distinction between crimes that 
involve the use of force and crimes that don't. Microsoft was convicted of 
crimes that do *not* involve use of force. I am trying very hard to make 
sure that distinction is preserved.

> If MS had been found guilty of abuse of monopoly power in one
> instance, few people would care. People do make mistakes. That they
> have been found guilty of such abuse repeatedly, on multiple
> continents, and were recently caught doing it yet again - that's what
> makes them criminals. It's the pattern of behavior that matters, not
> the single instances.

    Except that none of this behavior involves any use of force or fraud. 
Actions involving force or fraud are fundamentally different in type from 
actions that don't. And it's this distinction that I'm trying to preserve.

> I'm still waiting for you to come up with an explanation for the
> pattern of your behavior other than that you're taking orders from
> MS. But I expect yout to deny that it exists.

    The pattern of my behavior is that it is vital to me to preserve the 
distinction between force and non-force. Guns and arguments represent two 
fundamentally different categories of human behavior. And I reject the moral 
claim that it is okay to respond to arguments with guns. Microsoft's 
behavior consisted of arguments, that is, did not involve force, the threat 
of force, fraud, or the threat of fraud. This is perhaps the most vital 
distinction that there is.

    DS




From pkarjala at paju.oulu.fi  Sat Oct  1 08:16:08 2005
From: pkarjala at paju.oulu.fi (Pekka Karjalainen)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 12:16:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Not defined
References: <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547@news.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <slrndjsvg8.4et.pkarjala@paju.oulu.fi>

I looked around a bit and found the answer. At least the change I
recommend below worked for me.

In article <RVq%e.15439$iM2.1260547 at news.xtra.co.nz>, Rob wrote:
>When trying the basic tutorial for cgkit I always seem to get a not defined 
>error as follows.
>
>Pythonwin GUI
>
>>>> from cgkit import *

This is "from cgkit.all import *" in the tutorial here:

http://cgkit.sourceforge.net/doc2/node6.html

It seems the tutorial you are using is out of date vis-a-vis the version
of cgkit you use.

-- 
Pekka Henrik Karjalainen



From howardrh at westerncom.net  Wed Oct  5 23:33:19 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 20:33:19 -0700
Subject: New Python book
References: <mailman.1571.1128550047.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128569599.607011.312760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Dick Moores wrote:
> Magnus Lie Hetland's new book, _Beginning Python: From Novice to
> Professional_ was published by Apress on Sept. 26 (in the U.S.). My copy
> arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. Very much worth a look, IMHO.
> But what do the experts here think?
>
> <http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/159059519X>
>
> Dick Moores
> rdm at rcblue.com

Along the same line what do the experts think of the new Python book
published by Wrox, titled "Beginnig Python"  with Peter Norton as the
lead author?  I was disappointed in the introductory material presented
in the first 1/3 of the book  but the application information presented
in the last 2/3 of the book says to me this book is not a beginning
python book.



From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 12 19:55:33 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:55:33 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com> <Io3I6I.4xr@bath.ac.uk>
	<tluik1ttskfsqb175v3gma36848liub5da@4ax.com>
	<86ek6ul1c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<ji2rk19rbq8b5g0pi25t69iplhi6eo3dog@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86zmpeuw7e.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:25:46 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
> You don't need 100% spam blocking to effectively solve the spam
> problem.  You just have to make spam uneconomic.

There are good reasons to doubt this. Most notably, there's no proof
that spam is economic now. There's also evidence that non-trivial
percentages of spam are more a form of ddos attack than any real
attempt to send mail.

> There was an analogous problem with telephone spam.  It was even
> easier for the telepest to get  addresses, just add one.  That was
> solved by legal means. It could come back as long distance rates drop
> and some country harbours them.

Just making it illegal won't do anything. Most spam today is the
result of illegal activity, and is part of an illegal or semi-legal
activity even if you ignore that.

You've got to convince the spammers that large men with guns will show
up on their doorstep if they keep it up.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From dcrespo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 12:01:32 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:01:32 -0700
Subject: Using SRP on TCPServer module
Message-ID: <1129305692.176959.82170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

Below, you can see a class that when it receives a host connection, it
gets validated. Then, if the validation returns True, then process the
request. Also, if I want to stop the server, I simply access the
self.QuitFlag in lock mode, and set it to 1.

Now that you know what I have, I would like to add SRP functionality to
the validation of each new connection.
What I need to add to my code to get SRP to work? I don't know where to
start. The docs are poor.

Thanks

Daniel

------------------------------------------------------

class TCPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer):

    def __init__(self,socket,lock):
        self.socket = socket
        SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer.__init__(self,
socket,SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler)
        SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer.allow_reuse_address = True
        self.timeout = 0.1
        self.lock = lock
        self.lock.acquire()
        self.QuitFlag = 0
        self.lock.release()

    def get_request(self):
        socklist = [self.socket]
        while 1:
            # Select with a timeout, then poll a quit flag. An
alternate
            # approach would be to let the master thread "wake us up"
            # with a socket connection.
            ready = select.select(socklist, [], [], self.timeout)
            self.lock.acquire()
            time_to_quit = self.QuitFlag
            self.lock.release()
            if time_to_quit:
                raise TimeToQuit        # Get out now
            if ready[0]:        # A socket was ready to read
                return
SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer.get_request(self)
            else:               # We timed out, no connection yet
                pass            # Just go back to the select()

    #Process the request
    def process_request_thread(self,request,client_address):
        """
        This function gets triggered when the connection is accepted
        """
        pass

    #Verify the request
    def verify_request(self,request,client_address):
        """
        This function triggers when some host wants to connect
        """
        if DoValidationOf(client_address):
            return True
        else:
            return False



From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Thu Oct  6 12:48:25 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:48:25 +0200
Subject: Build spoofed IP packets
References: <L2D0f.12452$133.5252@tornado.fastwebnet.it><slrndk6qvp.8dq.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org><StP0f.13218$133.4236@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<mailman.1573.1128551379.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <szc1f.15821$133.14470@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

> It's SP2. Microsoft decided allowing raw socket access is a security 
> threat and disabled it in SP2.
Uhm.. I heard about that. Damn it. :-\ 




From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct  5 04:23:53 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 08:23:53 GMT
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Tom Anderson schreef <twic at urchin.earth.li>:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Robert Kern wrote:
>
>> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>>   class Tree:
>>>
>>>     def __lt__(self, term):
>>>       return set(self.iteritems()) < set(term.iteritems())
>>>
>>>     def __eq__(self, term):
>>>       return set(self.iteritems()) == set(term.iteritems())
>>>
>>> Would this be a correct definition of the desired behaviour?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> In [1]: {1:2} < {3:4}
>> Out[1]: True
>>
>> In [2]: set({1:2}.iteritems()) < set({3:4}.iteritems())
>> Out[2]: False
>>
>>> Anyone a reference?
>>
>> The function dict_compare in dictobject.c .
>
> Well there's a really helpful answer. I'm intrigued, Robert - since you 
> know the real answer to this question, why did you choose to tell the 
> Antoon that he was wrong, not tell him in what way he was wrong, certainly 
> not tell him how to be right, but just tell him to read the source, rather 
> than simply telling him what you knew? Still, at least you told him which 
> file to look in. And if he knows python but not C, or gets lost in the 
> byzantine workings of the interpreter, well, that's his own fault, i 
> guess.
>
> So, Antoon, firstly, your implementation of __eq__ is, i believe, correct.
>
> Your implementation of __lt__ is, sadly, not. While sets take "<" to mean 
> "is a proper subset of", for dicts, it's a more conventional comparison 
> operation, which constitutes a total ordering over all dicts (so you can 
> sort with it, for example). However, since dicts don't really have a 
> natural total ordering, it is ever so slightly arbitrary.
>
> The rules for ordering on dicts are, AFAICT:
>
> - If one dict has fewer elements than the other, it's the lesser
> - If not, find the smallest key for which the two dicts have different 
> values (counting 'not present' as a value)
> -- If there is no such key, the dicts are equal
> -- If the key is present in one dict but not the other, the dict in which 
> it is present is the lesser
> -- Otherwise, the dict in which the value is lesser is itself the lesser
>
> In code:
>
> def dict_cmp(a, b):
>  	diff = cmp(len(a), len(b))
>  	if (diff != 0):
>  		return diff
>  	for key in sorted(set(a.keys() + b.keys())):
>  		if (key not in a):
>  			return 1
>  		if (key not in b):
>  			return -1
>  		diff = cmp(a[key], b[key])
>  		if (diff != 0):
>  			return diff
>  	return 0
>

Thanks for the explanation, but you somehow give me too much.

I have been searching some more and finally stumbled on this:

http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html

  Mappings (dictionaries) compare equal if and only if their sorted
  (key, value) lists compare equal. Outcomes other than equality are
  resolved consistently, but are not otherwise defined.

This seems to imply that the specific method to sort the dictionaries
is unimported (as long as it is a total ordering). So I can use whatever
method I want as long as it is achieves this.

But that is contradicted by the unittest. If you have a unittest for
comparing dictionaries, that means comparing dictionaries has a
testable characteristic and thus is further defined.

So I don't need a full implementation of dictionary comparison,
I need to know in how far such a comparison is defined and
what I can choose.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From daniel.dang.griffith at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:37:15 2005
From: daniel.dang.griffith at gmail.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 08:37:15 -0700
Subject: MD5 Help Page
Message-ID: <1128785834.835655.285820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm referring to the text in
http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/module-md5.html, which shows the
same thing I see in the Windows version of the help.

The two examples show:

'\xbbd\x9c\x83\xdd\x1e\xa5\xc9\xd9\xde\xc9\xa1\x8d\xf0\xff\xe9'

as the output, and that is indeed what I see when I run the examples.

But if I use hexdigest() instead of digest(), I get this result:

'bb649c83dd1ea5c9d9dec9a18df0ffe9'

I don't understand the difference.  Specifically, in the output of
digest, it shows a 'd' where I expect to see \x64.  What causes this
difference?

Thanks,
    --dang



From prince_amir86 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 21:55:47 2005
From: prince_amir86 at yahoo.com (Brandon K)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:55:47 -0500
Subject: coloring a complex number
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2374.1129909589.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2374.1129909589.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129946307_147@spool6-east.superfeed.net>

I'm not 100% sure about this, but from what it seems like, the reason 
method B worked, and not method a is because class foo(complex) is 
subclassing a metaclass.  So if you do this, you can't init a meta class 
(try type(complex), it equals 'type' not 'complex'.  type(complex()) 
yields 'complex'), so you use the new operator to generator a class on 
the fly which is why it works in method B.  I hope that's right.

-Brandon
> Spending the morning avoiding responsibilities, and seeing what it would
> take to color some complex numbers.
> 
> class color_complex(complex):
>         def  __init__(self,*args,**kws):
>                 complex.__init__(*args)
>                 self.color=kws.get('color', 'BLUE')
> 
>>>> a=color_complex(1,7)
>>>> print a
> (1+7j)                                                      #good so far
>>>> a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE') 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#37>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>    a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE')
> TypeError: 'color' is an invalid keyword argument for this function
> 
> No good... it seems that I am actually subclassing the built_in function
> 'complex' when I am hoping to have been subclassing the built_in numeric
> type - complex.
> 
> but some googling sends me to lib/test/test_descr.py
> 
> where there a working subclass of complex more in
> accordance with my intentions.
> 
> class color_complex(complex):
>    def __new__(cls,*args,**kws):
>            result = complex.__new__(cls, *args)
>            result.color = kws.get('color', 'BLUE')
>            return result
> 
>>>> a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE')
>>>> print a
> (1+7j)
>>>> print a.color
> BLUE
> 
> which is very good.
> 
> But on the chance that I end up pursuing this road, it would be good if
> I understood what I just did. It would certainly help with my
> documentation  ;)
> 
> Assistance appreciated.
> 
> NOTE:
> 
> The importance of the asset of the depth and breadth of Python archives
> -  for learning (and teaching) and real world production - should not be
> underestimated, IMO. I could be confident if there was an answer to
> getting the functionality I was looking for as above, it would be found
> easily enough by a google search.  It is only with the major
> technologies that one can hope to pose a question of almost any kind to
> google and get the kind of relevant hits one gets when doing a Python
> related search.  Python is certainly a major technology, in that
> respect.  As these archives serve as an extension to the documentation,
> the body of Python documentation is beyond any  normal expectation.
> 
> True, this asset is generally better for answers than explanations.
> 
> I got the answer I needed.  Pursuing here some explanation of that answer.
> 
> Art
> 
> 


----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms! 
----== Highest Retention and Completion Rates! HTTP://WWW.NEWSGROUPS.COM ==----




From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 17 04:24:28 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 08:24:28 GMT
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndl6nts.2vt.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-14, dcrespo schreef <dcrespo at gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> How can I get a raised exception from other thread that is in an
> imported module?
>
> For example:

You could try the following class, it needs ctypes and if the exception
is raised while in a C-extention, the exception will be delayed until
the extention is left. Some delay is unavoidable. You may also need
to fiddle with the length of the sleep at the end of this script 
or the values in the xrange calls in the Continue threads

---------------------------- except.py --------------------------------

import os
import ctypes
from time import sleep
from random import randint


class TimeOut(Exception):
  pass


class Alarm(Exception):
  pass

import threading

class Xthread(threading.Thread):

    
  def start(self):
    self.__original_run = self.run
    self.run = self.__run 
    threading.Thread.start(self)


  def __run(self):
    self.__thrd_id = threading._get_ident()
    try:
      self.__original_run()
    finally:
      self.run = self.__original_run


  def raize(self, excpt):

    Nr = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(self.__thrd_id, ctypes.py_object(excpt))
    while Nr > 1:
      ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(self.__thrd_id, None)
      sleep(0.1)
      Nr = ctypes.pythonapi.PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(self.__thrd_id, ctypes.py_object(excpt))

  def alarm(self, tm):

    alrm = threading.Timer(tm, self.raize, (TimeOut,))
    alrm.start()
    return alrm

class Continue(Xthread):

  def run(self):

    self.id = os.getpid()
    print self.id, "Begin"
    i = 0
    try:
      for _ in xrange(randint(0,20)):
        for e in xrange(4 * 100000):
    i = i + e
      print self.id, "Finished"
    except Alarm:
      print self.id, "Interupted"


lst = [Continue() for _ in xrange(10)]

for T in lst:
  T.start()

try:
  sleep(15)
finally:
  for T in lst:
    T.raize(Alarm)


From http  Mon Oct 10 11:08:50 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 08:08:50 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xd5md76kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
> I have a program that serves client programs. The server has a login
> password, which has to be used by each client for logging in. So, when
> the client connects, it sends a string with a password, which is then
> validated on the server side. The problem is obvious: anyone can get
> the password just sniffing the network.
> 
> How can I solve this?

If you really want to do it right, use SRP, <http://srp.stanford.edu>.


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Oct 26 08:55:18 2005
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:55:18 +0200
Subject: Windows vs Linux
References: <mailman.2589.1130329381.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s9zd5ls7809.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>

"Tim Golden" <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> writes:

> But as far as I can tell
> from my experience and from the docs -- and I'm not near a 
> Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall line x 
> in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2 etc. 
> Or can you?

You can.  It works fine on this box, at least.
GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(1)-release (i386-pc-linux-gnu)
libreadline 4.2a

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                           http://skencil.org/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Oct 22 01:45:59 2005
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 01:45:59 -0400
Subject: best way to replace first word in string?
References: <1129822003.246170.303920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <88e3c$4359d217$d8fea545$17293@PRIMUS.CA>

hagai26 at gmail.com <hagai26 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am looking for the best and efficient way to replace the first word
> in a str, like this:
> "aa to become" -> "/aa/ to become"
> I know I can use spilt and than join them
> but I can also use regular expressions
> and I sure there is a lot ways, but I need realy efficient one

I doubt you'll find faster than Sed.

man sed

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>, Toronto, Canada
ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive
	   http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html
BashDiff: Super Bash shell
	  http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct  8 19:38:23 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:38:23 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<cuhgk1hcg2qolffufmhmghtij72k2v1sdj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86u0frmvf4.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:41:38 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
> or quoted :
>>If you've got a browser with a better solution, what's the browser,
>>and what's the solution?
> Try Opera. You can merge the two. 

Merge the two CSS files? Most browsers do that - that's why they call
them "cascading" style sheets. Got a sample style sheet that you use
that prevernts authors from overriding things?

For the font size problem, Camino has a simple solution: a "minimum
size" for fonts. That's why it's my default OS X browser (well, that
and that Terminal sucks as a scripting tool). I'm not sure you can do
that with CSS.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 07:58:52 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:58:52 +1000
Subject: "Microsoft has never made a computer in its existence."
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<mailman.2131.1129460203.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.11.58.52.658651@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:54:48 +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> Microsoft has never made a computer in its existence. Not one.
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/xbox/

Does Microsoft actually make the Xbox or just sub-contract it out?

Either way, your point is taken. But since the OP did explicitly contrast
the supposed Microsoft PC revolution with games machines, I think my
insignificant error is forgivable and understandable. The Xbox is not a
general purpose computer, it has limited software other than games, and
Microsoft gets really, really REALLY upset if you try to install another
operating system on it.

-- 
Steven.



From sherm at dot-app.org  Sat Oct  1 14:02:06 2005
From: sherm at dot-app.org (Sherm Pendley)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:02:06 -0400
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<ff2tj1tmkgoa1i40l9q5e2fgicmel8rurf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m2irwhktep.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>

Bart Lateur <bart.lateur at pandora.be> writes:

> As a similar example: I've been told by various women independently,
> that "there are more babies born near a full moon."
>
> So... is there a correlation between insanity and babies being born?  :)

If you weren't insane before the baby was born, you will be soon after. ;-)

sherm--

-- 
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org


From hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de  Thu Oct 13 02:23:55 2005
From: hgk at et.uni-magdeburg.de (Hans Georg Krauthaeuser)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:23:55 +0200
Subject: searching python/gui developper in germany
In-Reply-To: <1129123713.193715.60780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <digkov$63h$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>
	<1129123713.193715.60780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dikuhr$4l5$1@fuerst.cs.uni-magdeburg.de>

malv schrieb:
> Hans Georg Krauthaeuser wrote:
> 
>>Dear all,
>>
>>for the measurements in our labs we have developed python scripts that
>>are pretty fine for our needs. Basically, we have classes and call the
>>appropriate methods from the command line (or by other scripts). So, we
>>don't have any GUI.
>>
>>Now, an external customer want to use our software and -- as you can
>>imagine -- we want a pretty GUI.
>>
>>So, we are looking for someone who can develop such a pretty GUI for us
>>(of course for money). OS is Windows (XP). We are not fixed to a special
>>toolkit -- it just should look nice and do the job.
>>
>>Best would be someone from our region (Magdeburg, Germany).
>>
>>If someone is interested: contact me by email, please.
>>
>>Best regards
>>Hans Georg Krauthaeuser
> 
> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
> If you run SuSE9.3 or SuSE 10.0, everything is there. Simply install
> eric or eric3.
> There is also a great gui design utility in the installation.
> You'll be going in no time.
> malv
> 
Sorry for the question, but... Is this a bot?

If not, just as a clearification: We are NOT looking for an IDE or an
GUI tool. I'm sure, I can build a GUI, with eric3 or an other tool. I
simply have not the time. So, we are looking for a person do do the job
for us.

regards
Hans Georg


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sat Oct 22 19:44:25 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:44:25 +1000
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:03:29 +0100, Alex Stapleton wrote:

> 
> On 21 Oct 2005, at 09:31, Harald Armin Massa wrote:
> 
>> Casey,
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have heard, but have not been able to verify that if a program is
>>> about
>>> 10,000 lines in C++
>>> it is about
>>> 5,000 lines in Java
>>> and it is about
>>> 3,000 lines in Python (Ruby to?)

I suspect it is considerably less than that, although it depends on the
specific code being written.


>> BTW: it is normally only 50 lines in Perl. Not that you could read it,
>> though
>>
>> Harald
>>
>>
> Perl is more like a CISC CPU. There are a million different commands.
> Python is more RISC like.
> Line count comparisons = pointless.


Not so.

Every line = more labour for the developer = more cost and time.
Every line = more places for bugs to exist = more cost and time.

I find it sometimes helps to imagine extreme cases. Suppose somebody comes
to you and says "Hi, I want you to develop a web scrapping application to
run on my custom hardware." You look at the project specifications and
realise that the hardware has no OS, no TCP/IP, no file manager, no
compiler. So you have to quote the potential customer on writing all these
layers of software, potentially tens of millions of lines of code.
Even porting an existing OS to the new hardware is not an insignificant
job. Think how much time and money it would take.

On the other extreme, the client comes to you and asks the same thing,
except the hardware is a stock-standard Linux-based PC. Your development
environment already contains an operating system, a file manager,
TCP/IP, compilers, frameworks... and wget. The work you need to do is
potentially as little as writing down the command "man wget" on a slip of
paper and pushing it across the table to your customer.

As programming languages go, C is closer to the first extreme, C++ a
little further away, Java further away still, because Java provides
more capabilities already built-in that the C programmer has to
create from scratch. For many tasks, Python provides even more
capabilities, in a language that demands less syntax scaffolding to make
things happen. Every line of code you don't have to write not only is a
bug that just can't happen, but it also saves time and labour.


-- 
Steven.



From dave at dbmdata.com  Sun Oct 30 18:44:32 2005
From: dave at dbmdata.com (David Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:44:32 -0500
Subject: Problem With Insert with MySQLdb
Message-ID: <000001c5ddab$e0bce8b0$0401a8c0@server2005>

Hello,

I am a complete beginner with Python. I've managed to get mod_python up and
running with Apache2 and I'm trying to a simple insert into a table in a
MySQL database. 

I'm using the MySQLdb library for connectivity. I can read from the database
no problem, but when I do an insert, the value never gets added to the
database, even though there is no error, and the SQL is fine (I print out
the SQL statement in the function). When I copy and paste the sql from my
browser and insert directly into MySQL, it works fine.

Here is the function in question:

def add(req):
	db = MySQLdb.connect(host="intranet", user="root", passwd="",
db="intranet")
	# create a cursor
	cursor = db.cursor()
	# execute SQL statement
	
	sql = "INSERT INTO category (category_name) VALUES ('" +
req.form['category'] + "')"
	cursor.execute(sql)
	return sql


The SQL it is outputting is:

INSERT INTO category (category_name) VALUES ('Test')

Am I doing something obviously incorrect here?

Thanks,

Dave



From boyanpn at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 15 00:04:17 2005
From: boyanpn at yahoo.com (boyanpn)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 21:04:17 -0700
Subject: PyGame & Web hosts
Message-ID: <1129349057.116550.219300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I a newbie in python so excuse me if my question sounds stupid or
something :(

I wonder if my web host suports python (with pygame), if I download
game from www.pygame.org and upload it to my site, could users access
to it with browser and play game ?



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Tue Oct 11 19:14:01 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:14:01 +1000
Subject: dictionnaries and lookup tables
References: <1129053992.141269.149840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1913.1129054654.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129056624.073937.207160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.23.14.00.488521@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:50:24 -0700, m.barenco wrote:

> Just to build up on that, when I run:
> 
> #start of listing
> import random
> 
> A={1:None,2:None,"hello":None,(1,2,3):None}
> 
> def dictcomp(n):
> 	for i in range(n):
> 		B=A.copy()
> 		C=A.copy()
> 		b=random.uniform(0,1)
> 		c=random.uniform(0,1)
> 		B[b]=None
> 		C[c]=None
> 		res=((B>C)==(b>c))
> 		print res,
> 
> dictcomp(1000)
> #end of listing
> 
> I get 1000 True's on the output, which suggests that key-wise ordering
> is implemented in some guise. The question is: how do I access that?

I don't think your code is showing what you think it is showing. I think
you have discovered an accidental invariant that depends on the *specific*
details of your code. In fact, I predict that if you run that code again,
you will randomly get 1000 Trues, or 1000 Falses, but never mixed Trues
and Falses.

Does this quote from the Python reference manual help you?

"Keys and values are listed in an arbitrary order which is non-random,
varies across Python implementations, and depends on the dictionary's
history of insertions and deletions."

http://docs.python.org/lib/typesmapping.html



What about this?

"Mappings (dictionaries) compare equal if and only if their sorted (key,
value) lists compare equal. Outcomes other than equality are resolved
consistently, but are not otherwise defined."

http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html


In other words, even if you have discovered a consistent invariant
of dict behaviour, you can't rely on it -- it may disappear with the next
release of Python, or if you use an older version, or a version on a
different platform, or even because you've deleted an item from a dict and
then put it back in. (And if you know anything about typical
implementations of hash tables, you will understand why that last one is
quite reasonable.)




-- 
Steven.



From phm4 at kent.ac.uk  Mon Oct 10 14:15:29 2005
From: phm4 at kent.ac.uk (Philipp H. Mohr)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:15:29 +0100 (BST)
Subject: convert char to byte representation
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0510101908580.14301@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk>

Hello,

I am trying to xor the byte representation of every char in a string with
its predecessor. But I don't know how to convert a char into its byte
representation. This is to calculate the nmea checksum for gps data.

e.g. everything between $ and * needs to be xor:
	$GPGSV,3,1,10,06,79,187,39,30,59,098,40,25,51,287,00,05,25,103,44*
to get the checksum.


Thank you for you help.

Phil


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 13:08:44 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:08:44 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4vprp.6l0d8o1yvhiyiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote:
   ...
> - Information about the current line and file as Ruby:
> __LINE__ __FILE__
> Instead of the python version:
> inspect.stack()[0][2] inspect.stack()[0][1]

__file__ is around in Python, too, but there's no __line__ (directly).

> - identity function: "identity" as in Common Lisp (probably of little
> use in Python).

I've seen enough occurrences of "lambda x: x" in Python code with a
generally functional style that I'd love to have operator.identity (and
a few more trivial functions like that) for readability;-)

> - object cloning: obj.copy()  obj.deepcopy()

Like (say) container.length() versus len(container), I'm perfectly
comfortable relying on functions rather than methods.  It even makes it
easier to allow several alternative ways for an object to provide such
functionality (e.g. by implementing __getstate__ and maybe __setstate__
as opposed to __copy__ and maybe __deepcopy__) -- which would be
feasible even with a method, of course (Template Method DP), but IS
easier when relying on functions (and operators).

> - accessing parent method:
> super as in Ruby, instead as in Python:
> super(Class, self).meth(args)

Ruby's syntax may be better for a single-inheritance language, but
Python's, while less elegant, may be more appropriate in the presence of
multiple inheritance.

> - recursive "flatten" as in Ruby (useful)

Usage too rare to deserve a built-in method, IMHO, considering the ease
of coding the equivalent:

def flatten(x):
    if not isinstance(x, list): yield x
    for y in x: yield flatten(y)

What I _do_ envy Ruby's syntax, a little, is the convention of ending
methodnames with exclamation mark to indicate "modifies in-place" (and,
secondarily, question mark to indicate predicates).  The distinction
between, e.g.,
    y = x.sort()
and
    x.sort!()
in Ruby is much clearer, IMHO, than that between, say,
    y = sorted(x)
and
    x.sort()
in Python...


Alex


From qvx3000 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 19:48:13 2005
From: qvx3000 at gmail.com (qvx)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 16:48:13 -0700
Subject: Simulating low bandwidth network on localhost
Message-ID: <1128728893.814798.44050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I would like to test my CherryPy application in varying network
conditions, ranging from localhost full speed to low badwidth (ie.
14.4kbps) and variable latency from milliseconds range to seconds
range.

How can I simulate this? Are there some tricks to be played with Python
or is there a specialized software for this kind of things (preferably
free).

Thanks,
qvx



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct  5 06:19:31 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 10:19:31 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk751c.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E6695EF22B6duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrndk7a5j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> It also is one possibility to implement writable closures.
>> 
>> One could for instace have a 'declare' have the effect that
>> if on a more inner scope such a declared variable is (re)bound it
>> will rebind the declared variable instead of binding a local name.
>
> That is one possibility, but I think that it would be better to use a 
> keyword at the point of the assigment to indicate assignment to an outer 
> scope. This fits with the way 'global' works: you declare at (or near) the 
> assignment that it is going to a global variable, not in some far away part 
> of the code, so the global nature of the assignment is clearly visible.

As far as I understand people don't like global very much so I don't
expect that a second keyword with the same kind of behaviour has
any chance.

> The 
> 'global' keyword itself would be much improved if it appeared on the same 
> line as the assignment rather than as a separate declaration.
>
> e.g. something like:
>
> var1 = 0
>
> def f():
>   var2 = 0
>
>   def g():
>      outer var2 = 1 # Assign to outer variable
>      global var1 = 1 # Assign to global

And what would the following do:

def f():

  var = 0

  def g():

    var = 1

    def h():

      outer var = 2 * var + 1

    h()
    print var

  g()
  print var

f()


From gagenellina at softlab.com.ar  Wed Oct 26 18:41:18 2005
From: gagenellina at softlab.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 15:41:18 -0700
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <djo5a8$itb$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130332534.999358.152530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djo5a8$itb$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <1130366478.058655.319720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Olivier Dormond ha escrito:

> > xxx = new.instance(MyClass, {'a':1,'b':2,'done':1})
> >
> > In other words, I need a *string* which, being sent to eval(), would
> > return the original object state saved in the pickle.
>
> Doesn't pickle.loads just do what you need ? e.g.:
>
> >>> pickled = file('test.dat', 'rb').read()
> >>> obj = eval('pickle.loads(%r)'%pickled)
> >>> obj
> <__main__.MyClass instance at 0xb7bfb76c>
> >>> obj.a, obj.b, obj.done
> (1, 2, 1)

Er... Touch? :)

- What year did World War II finish?
- Same year the Potsdam Conference was held.
- When was that?
- The year World War II finished.

I should have stated that I need an *explicit* string...

Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 07:01:09 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:01:09 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<6eihk1tr0ovtkv5d6ik2lfm7p0i90u0tk5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.11.01.08.46848@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:42:18 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> On 08 Oct 2005 18:59:39 -0700, Paul Rubin
> <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote or quoted :
> 
>>
>>I read mail over an ssh connection to a Unix shell.  I have no easy
>>way to read html email with a graphics browser. 
> 
> So the rest of the world should forgo rich communication because of
> your obsolete software?  How could anything every evolve with that
> attitude?

Hardly obsolete, any more than hammers are obsolete just because we have
Concords.

(The Concord... now *there* is an obsolete technology.)

You may have noticed that even Microsoft have acknowledged the power and
flexibility of text-based shells, and will be (if they get the technology
right in time) building one into Vista.

-- 
Steven.



From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 24 07:53:12 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:53:12 -0400
Subject: output from external commands
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2460.1130140388.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org>
	<mailman.2460.1130140388.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <435cc914$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

darren kirby wrote:
> quoth the James Colannino:
>>So, for example, in Perl I could do something like:
>>
>>@files = `ls`;
>>
>>So I guess I'm looking for something similiar to the backticks in Perl.
>>Forgive me if I've asked something that's a bit basic for this list.
>>Any help would be greatly appreciated :)  Thanks very much in advance.
> 
> 
> If all you want is filenames this will work:
> 
>>>>import glob
>>>>files = ["%s" % f for f in glob.glob("*")]

or
import os
files = os.listdir('.')

Python has built-in support for many file manipulations, see the os, os.path and shutil modules.

Kent


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Tue Oct  4 13:29:37 2005
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:29:37 +0200
Subject: how to debug when "Segmentation fault"
In-Reply-To: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
References: <dhu9ln$1jg8$1@news.tsua.net>
Message-ID: <4342bb72$0$6128$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Maksim Kasimov a ?crit :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> my programm sometime gives "Segmentation fault" message (no matter how
> long the programm had run (1 day or 2 weeks). And there is nothing in
> log-files that can points the problem.
> My question is how it possible to find out where is the problem in the
> code? Thanks for any help.
> 
> Python 2.2.3
> FreeBSD
> 

Well, your best bet is to generate a core file !
To do so, in the shell launching the program, you need to accept core
files. The command is :

$ ulimit -c <max size of core file accepted>

For example:
$ ulimit -c 500000

For a 500MB max file.

Then, if your program crash, you should see a file named "core.XXXX"
where XXXX is the PID of the process. You can know exactly where the
program crashed using gbd :

$ gdb --core=core.XXXX

Then, depending on the debug information you have in your executables
you may (or may not) be able to know what happened :)

Pierre


From themightydoyle at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 23:54:33 2005
From: themightydoyle at gmail.com (themightydoyle at gmail.com)
Date: 15 Oct 2005 20:54:33 -0700
Subject: How to get a raised exception from other thread
In-Reply-To: <cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
References: <1129326320.914350.171460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<maKdnTHC_v6buszeRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129434185.879062.61600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<cvmdnck41fD9U8zeRVn-3g@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129434873.307336.112030@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Here's a dumbed down version of what i'm doing:

import time
import threading

class threader(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        pass

    def run(self):
        try:
            while 1:
                time.sleep(5)
        except SystemExit:
            print "Got Exit Message in thread"

    def killMe(self):
        raise SystemExit



thread1 = threader()
thread2 = threader()

thread1.start()
thread2.start()

time.sleep(5)

try:
    print "Killing thread 1"
    thread1.killMe()
    print "killing thread 2"
    thread2.killMe()
except SystemExit:
    print "Got exceptin in main thread"



The exception is not propogated to the threads I spawned, but instead
comes back in the main thread.



From nbg at nbg.invalid  Tue Oct 25 11:35:47 2005
From: nbg at nbg.invalid (Not Bill Gates)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>

joe at invalid.address wrote...
> Not Bill Gates <nbg at nbg.invalid> writes:
> 
> > davids at webmaster.com wrote...
> > 
> > >     1) There is no other operating system worth selling. In this
> > > case, you are right, you have no choice but to sell the Microsoft
> > > OS, but the deal they're offering you harms you in no way. (Unless
> > > you intended to sell PCs with no OS at all.)
> > > 
> > >     2) There are other realistic competing operating systems. In
> > > this case, you were foolish to agree to Microsoft's deal. You lost
> > > out on the realistic competing markets. That is, unless Windows
> > > only really was a better deal, in which case you were wise to take
> > > the deal and have no reason to be upset.
> > 
> > The flaw with this is that business owners don't get to decide what 
> > the market wants.  And the market wanted the Microsoft OS.  Every 
> > other OS in the market had bit player status, via the economic 
> > principle called increasing returns. 
> > 
> > You either sell what the market wants, or you go out of business.
> 
> I'm hesitant to get into this, but I keep wondering why, if there is
> no other competing OS, or not one worth worrying about, the MS
> business agreements are so draconian? Why would a company come up with
> such heavy handed agreements if it wasn't worried about competition?

For the same reason that people put down bug spray, I guess:  You 
don't want any bugs showing up later and ruining your dinner party.

> Yes, I know, they can do whatever they want, it's not a crime,
> etc. However when they use their market position to disallow
> competition, it sounds to me like they're worried about something, and
> trying to squelch it.

Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  

Maybe they were trying to protect themselves against all the market 
momentum they'd created around 0S/2.  They'd been big fans of it 
right up until Windows 3.0 took off.


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct  8 17:41:38 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:41:38 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:38:49 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :
>
>>Yes it is. HTML means that after I've specified my email client use my
>>favourite font, in the size I like, people send me emails that over-ride
>>my choice. Invariably they use a font I don't even have. 
>
> I would suggest then a better solution is to implement CSS in email,
> the way you do in browsers to deal with that same problem.

The only way I've seen a browser fix this is to ignore the clients CSS
completely. That breaks a lot of HTML, becuase CSS has turned "tag
soup" authors into "div soup" authors.

If you've got a browser with a better solution, what's the browser,
and what's the solution?

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 25 08:04:41 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:04:41 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <3c7sl11bhsjfk2nuedev7drhbqm8ci8c9o@4ax.com>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:21:45 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>    2) There are other realistic competing operating systems. In this case, 
>you were foolish to agree to Microsoft's deal. You lost out on the realistic 
>competing markets. That is, unless Windows only really was a better deal, in 
>which case you were wise to take the deal and have no reason to be upset. 

The actuality at the time was the vast majority of my business was
Windows.  People would ask about OS/2 and when they asked around town
and discovered because of the MS dirty deal it cost way more, they
lost interest.

I could not have made a living selling only OS/2.  It is was a very
difficult business to survive in as it was and I was already at a
disadvantage because of my insistence on not cutting corners the way
my competitors did.  Every once in a while I run into one of my
machines I built back in the early 90s still going without a hitch
over a decade later.

I don't think I could make it clearer.  What MS did was wrong and I
will to my dying day curse them for it.  If I were a Christian, I
would put it this way. The pressured me into selling my soul.

They did not tempt me into it. They threatened to destroy my business
and my livelihood if I did not knuckle under. That is extortion.





-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 28 14:39:04 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:39:04 -0400
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Andrew McCarthy <a_mccarthy at hotmail.com> writes:

> On 2005-10-28, pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com <pinkfloydhomer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm now down to:
>>
>> f = open("filename", "rb")
>> s = f.read()
>> sub = "\x00\x00\x01\x00"
>> count = s.count(sub)
>> print count
>>
>> Which is quite fast. The only problems is that the file might be huge.
>> I really have no need for reading the entire file into a string as I am
>> doing here. All I want is to count occurences this substring. Can I
>> somehow count occurences in a file without reading it into a string
>> first?
>
> Yes - use memory mapping (the mmap module). An mmap object is like a
> cross between a file and a string, but the data is only read into RAM
> when, and for as long as, necessary. An mmap object doesn't have a
> count() method, but you can just use find() in a while loop instead.

Except if you can't read the file into memory because it's to large,
there's a pretty good chance you won't be able to mmap it either.  To
deal with huge files, the only option is to read the file in in
chunks, count the occurences in each chunk, and then do some fiddling
to deal with the pattern landing on a boundary.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 18 03:42:18 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 07:42:18 GMT
Subject: Don't want to serialize a variable of object
References: <mailman.2203.1129616934.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns96F3588BC44FCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:

> How do I serialize the object color without serializing the x and
> somechar variables?
> Is there any modifier which prevents the variable from being serialized.
> 
See the pickle documentation. The example given in the documentation 
pickles a class while excluding one of its attributes.

http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/pickle-example.html

> Another question:
>      Is there a concept of private variables?

'private variables' can mean either of two things: hiding the variables to 
prevent accidental naming conflicts in subclasses, or security to prevent 
malicious manipulation of a class's internal state.

Python provides the former (to a certain extent) when you give an attribute 
a name prefixed with a double underscore, but makes no attempt to provide 
the latter. Some other languages (such as C++) make no attempt to provide 
the former and a completely inadequate attempt at the latter.

In other words: Python has a concept of private variables, but it is 
different than in some other languages, and if you google past threads you 
can find endless discussions on the pro's and con's of the Python approach.


From shane at hathawaymix.org  Mon Oct 17 18:14:25 2005
From: shane at hathawaymix.org (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:14:25 -0600
Subject: How to get listed on planet.python.org
Message-ID: <43542241.1000507@hathawaymix.org>

I've been writing Python-related articles on my weblog, and I thought 
planet.python.org might be interested in including them.  Does anyone 
know how to submit a feed to the aggregator?

http://hathawaymix.org/Weblog/rss20.xml?categories:list=Python

Shane


From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Oct  9 15:19:23 2005
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:19:23 -0000
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128810677_124183@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<u9GdnXD4VeSF0NXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1781.1128838838.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Lb-dnVf65sXCndTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<86r7aulwqd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1128885560.453555@yasure>

Quoth Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>:
| Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen <lasse at vkarlsen.no> writes:
...
|> I think that at one time, scripting languages was something that lived
|> within other programs, like Office, and couldn't be used by themselves
|> without running it inside that program, and as thus was a way to add
|> minor functions and things to that program.
|
| That's certainly one kind of scripting language. But I don't think
| it's ever been the only kind - shells have always been stand-alone
| applications. What they have in common with your definition is that
| both types of languages are used to capture user actions for later
| repetition. And that's what makes a scripting language: it's a
| language in which one writes "scripts" that describe actions -
| normally taken by a user - so that a series of them can be performed
| automatically.

I don't think the shell is any exception - I think it's reasonable to
see it as a control+UI language embedded in the UNIX operating system.
It wouldn't really be a very useful stand-alone application on a computer
platform without the same basic properties.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Mon Oct 17 08:10:36 2005
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:10:36 +0200
Subject: Dynamic generation of doc-strings of dynamically generated classes
Message-ID: <dj04bq$5os$1@news.island.liu.se>

Hi!

I've asked Google, but have not found any useful information there.

Situation: I have a base class, say

 >>> class base(object):
         ImportantClassAttribute = None

Now, I want to dynamically generate subclasses of base. That's not a 
problem. However, I very much want those subclasses to have individual 
doc-strings. More precicely, I want that important class attribute to be 
reflected in the doc-string. That's the problem. The only way I've 
managed to accomplish that is something like the following.

 >>> ImportantClassAttribute = 7
 >>> docString = 'The case %s.' % (ImportantClassAttribute,)
 >>> exec('''class new(base):
          """%s"""
          pass ''' % (docString,))
 >>> new.ImportantClassAttribute = ImportantClassAttribute
 >>> new.__doc__
'The case 7.'

This works as intended. The subclasses do get the doc-strings I want 
them to have, and I can live with this solution. But: This solution does 
not strike me as especially beautiful or readable. My first na?ve 
attempt was instead the following.

 >>> class new(base):
	pass

 >>> new.ImportantClassAttribute = 7
 >>> new.__doc__ = ('The case %(ImportantClassAttribute)s.'
	       % new.__dict__)

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#35>", line 1, in -toplevel-
     new.__doc__ = ('The case %(ImportantClassAttribute)s.'
TypeError: attribute '__doc__' of 'type' objects is not writable

This is readable to me, but apparently not the way to go, since I'm not 
allowed to replace the doc-string like this. I've also tried a number of 
other ways, but they all stumble on similar reasons.

Any ideas? Am I stuck with the clumsy exec-solution, or are there other 
ways to dynamically generate doc-strings of classes?

/MiO


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Sun Oct 16 05:27:00 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:27:00 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <E1p4f.24440$C96.969759@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

John Bokma wrote:
> joe at invalid.address wrote:
> 
> 
>>John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 
>>>>news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
>>>>>browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
>>>>>dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?
>>>>
>>>>    It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
>>>>    applications that work in any browser on any OS threaten
>>>>    to make it irrelevent what OS you're running.
>>>
>>>And it's even easier to understand that your statement is nonsense.
>>>
>>>It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the
>>>Linux kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same results.
>>>Yet people seem to prefer one distribution over one other.
>>
>>He was talking about the browser war, and gave a pretty good reason
>>why it was important. So you respond by pointing out that people
>>choose a linux distribution for personal (non-technical,
>>non-marketing) reasons. I think I missed the connection.
> 
> 
> web based applications that work with any browser make OS irrelevant ->
> not true, since for OpenOffice it doesn't matter which Linux 
> distribution one runs (or even if it's Linux), yet people seem to make a 
> point of which distribution they use.

You make the point yourself now: if web based applications work with any
browser, people can freely choose their distribution based on their own
preferences.

- An application works in IE, Firefox, Konqueror, Safari, Lynx, Links,
Opera, ... -> users can use it with any browser on any OS
- An application only works in IE -> users are forced to use Windows (or
one of the other few OS's that IE exists on)

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From wierob at gmx.de  Sat Oct  8 11:52:24 2005
From: wierob at gmx.de (Robert Wierschke)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 17:52:24 +0200
Subject: Force flushing buffers
In-Reply-To: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <di8q7u$pku$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Madhusudan Singh schrieb:
> Hi
> 
>         I have a python application that writes a lot of data to a bunch of files
> from inside a loop. Sometimes, the application has to be interrupted and I
> find that a lot of data has not yet been writen (and hence is lost). How do
> I flush the buffer and force python to write the buffers to the files ? I
> intend to put this inside the loop.
> 
> Thanks.
disable the buffer!

open( filename[, mode[, bufsize]])

open takes an optional 3ed argument set bufsize = 0 means unbuffered. 
see the documentation of the in build file() mehtod as open is just 
another name



From alexs at advfn.com  Sun Oct  9 14:13:39 2005
From: alexs at advfn.com (Alex Stapleton)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:13:39 +0100
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org>
	<43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>


On 9 Oct 2005, at 19:04, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:


> Laszlo Zsolt Nagy a ?crit :
>
>
>> Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I would like to gather some information on Python's runtime
>>> performance. As far as I understand, it deals with a lot of string
>>> objects. Does it require a lot string processing during program
>>> execution? How does it handle such time-consuming operations? Is  
>>> there
>>> a way to find out how many string operations (perhaps in the
>>> underlying system) ) it does during program execution?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Do you want to know how many internal string operations are done  
>> inside
>> the Python interpreter? I believe it is not a useful information.  
>> There
>> are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.
>>
>> For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602
>>
>>
>>
>
> A benchmark stating that Python is interpreted is bullshit.
>
>

Except it is interpreted. What is your point?

Python != C






From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Oct 12 19:38:41 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:38:41 +0100
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <slrndkq9ge.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndkq9ge.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510130003150.19197@urchin.earth.li>

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Jorgen Grahn wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:37:03 +0100, Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, it was written:
> ...
>>> There is no way you can avoid making garbage.  Python conses everything,
>>> even integers (small positive ones are cached).
>>
>> So python doesn't use the old SmallTalk 80 SmallInteger hack, or similar?
>
> If the SmallInteger hack is something like this, it does:
>
>>>> a = 42
>>>> b = 42
>>>> a is b
> True
>>>> a = 42000
>>>> b = 42000
>>>> a is b
> False
>>>>
>
> ... which I guess is what if referred to above as "small positive
> ones are cached".

That's not what i meant.

In both smalltalk and python, every single variable contains a reference 
to an object - there isn't the object/primitive distinction you find in 
less advanced languages like java.

Except that in smalltalk, this isn't true: in ST, every variable *appears* 
to contain a reference to an object, but implementations may not actually 
work like that. In particular, SmallTalk 80 (and some earlier smalltalks, 
and all subsequent smalltalks, i think) handles small integers (those that 
fit in wordsize-1 bits) differently: all variables contain a word, whose 
bottom bit is a tag bit; if it's one, the word is a genuine reference, and 
if it's zero, the top bits of the word contain a signed integer. The 
innards of the VM know about this (where it matters), and do the right 
thing. All this means that small (well, smallish - up to a billion!) 
integers can be handled with zero heap space and much reduced instruction 
counts. Of course, it means that references are more expensive, since they 
have to be checked for integerness before dereferencing, but since this is 
a few instructions at most, and since small integers account for a huge 
fraction of the variables in most programs (as loop counters, array 
indices, truth values, etc), this is a net win.

See the section 'Representation of Small Integers' in:

http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/smalltalk/bluebook/bluebook_chapter26.html#TheObjectMemory26

The precise implementation is sneaky - the tag bit for an integer is zero, 
so in many cases you can do arithmetic directly on the word, with a few 
judicious shifts here and there; the tag bit for a pointer is one, and the 
pointer is stored in two's-complement form *with the bottom bit in the 
same place as the tag bit*, so you can recover a full-length pointer from 
the word by complementing the whole thing, rather than having to shift. 
Since pointers are word-aligned, the bottom bit is always a zero, so in 
the complement it's always a one, so it can also be the status bit!

I think this came from LISP initially (most things do) and was probably 
invented by Guy Steele (most things were).

tom

-- 
That's no moon!


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 09:34:36 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:34:36 -0700
Subject: dictionary interface
In-Reply-To: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <dhu0dd$k09$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> I'm writing a Tree class, which should behave a lot like a dictionary.
> 
> In order to test this, I took the unittest from the source distribution
> for dictionaries and used it to test against my Tree class.
> 
> Things are working out rather well, but I stumbled on a problem.
> 
> this unittest tries to test for '==' and '<' operators. However I
> couldn't find anything in the documentation that defined how
> dictionaries should behave with respect to these operators.
> 
> For the moment the best I can come up with is something like
> the following:
> 
>   class Tree:
> 
>     def __lt__(self, term):
>       return set(self.iteritems()) < set(term.iteritems())
> 
>     def __eq__(self, term):
>       return set(self.iteritems()) == set(term.iteritems())
> 
> Would this be a correct definition of the desired behaviour?

No.

In [1]: {1:2} < {3:4}
Out[1]: True

In [2]: set({1:2}.iteritems()) < set({3:4}.iteritems())
Out[2]: False

> Anyone a reference?

The function dict_compare in dictobject.c .

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 14 20:27:00 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:27:00 GMT
Subject: updating local()
References: <1128530014.323801.290360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1561.1128535638.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128603314.197733.119160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<3qkmjcFfbem9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128607448.235410.152590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1615.1128608816.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43504a9f.12823268@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:15:12 -0700, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

>Flavio wrote:
>> Ok, its not thousands, but more like dozens of variables...
>> I am reading a large form from the web which returns a lot of values.
>> (I am Using cherrypy)
>> 
>> I know I could pass these variables around as:
>> 
>> def some_function(**variables):
>>     ...
>> 
>> some_function(**variables)
>> 
>> but its a pain in the neck to have to refer to them as
>> variables['whatever']...
>> 
>> dont you think? 
>
>Use a Bunch.
>
>class Bunch(dict):
>    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>        dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwds)
>        self.__dict__ = self
>
>--
Or use a version-sensitive byte-code hack to set some preset locals before executing,
either with one-time presets via normal decorator, e.g.,

 >>> from ut.presets import presets
 >>> @presets(x=111, y=222, z='zee')
 ... def foo():
 ...     return locals()
 ...
 >>> foo()
 {'y': 222, 'x': 111, 'z': 'zee'}

Or the same, just using a predefined dict instead of the keyword format:

 >>> e = {'a':0, 'b':1}
 >>> @presets(**e)
 ... def foo():
 ...     return locals()
 ...
 >>> foo()
 {'a': 0, 'b': 1}

What happened to foo viat the decoration:
 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(foo)
   1           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ((0, 1))
               3 UNPACK_SEQUENCE          2
               6 STORE_FAST               0 (a)
               9 STORE_FAST               1 (b)

   3          12 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (locals)
              15 CALL_FUNCTION            0
              18 RETURN_VALUE

To mess with the same base function with different presets more dynamically,
use the explicit way of calling the decorator:

The base function:

 >>> def bar(x, y=123):
 ...    return locals()
 ...

decorate and invoke on the fly with particular presets:

 >>> presets(**e)(bar)('exx')
 {'a': 0, 'y': 123, 'b': 1, 'x': 'exx'}

The keyword way:
 >>> presets(hey='there')(bar)('exx')
 {'y': 123, 'x': 'exx', 'hey': 'there'}

BTW, @presets does not change the signature of the function whose selected locals
are being preset from the decoration-time-generated constant, e.g.,

 >>> presets(hey='there')(bar)()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: bar() takes at least 1 argument (0 given)
 >>> presets(hey='there')(bar)('exx', 'wye')
 {'y': 'wye', 'x': 'exx', 'hey': 'there'}
 >>> presets(hey='there')(bar)('exx', 'wye', 'zee')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: bar() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 24 04:43:33 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:43:33 +0200
Subject: Zope and Persistence
In-Reply-To: <1130002447.553341.226500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130002447.553341.226500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435c9eb6$0$664$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

ryankaskel at gmail.com wrote:
> I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post a Zope question

Nope. You'd better use the zope mailing-list for this.

<OT>
> but I figure many here are familiar with it. I'm confused about the
> role of the ZMI when it comes to development.

As it's name implies, the ZMI is a *management* interface. Real Zope
developpement is better made with filesystem "Products" (Zope components).

> I want to write a simple
> script that logs page hits. 

That's a typical case of reinventig the square wheel. Ever looked at
<you-zope-instance-folder-here>/log/Z2.log ? It's an apache-like access
log. And there are a whole lot of tools for building stats from apache
access logs.


> I wrote it in what was called a Script
> (Python) resource in the ZMI. When I access the page it gives an error
> saying that this file cannot import Persistence, etc. 

Why would you import Persistence in a Python Script ? This is already a
persistent object.

> This makes sense
> but where would I put this script 

Whereever seems to fit - this depends on your application.

> and how would I invoke it? 

Like any other Zope object.

> It is only
> supposed to store an integer in Data.fs. Thanks.

This is another problem, and I think you'd better start with the zope book.

But for you current use case, first have a look at Zope's access log.
</OT>

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From vel.accel at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 14:37:29 2005
From: vel.accel at gmail.com (D.Hering)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 11:37:29 -0700
Subject: Objects with different data views
References: <pan.2005.10.07.16.52.21.660639@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xhdbtdzss.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1128710249.776369.176120@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
>
> class Parrot(object):
>   x = property(getx, setx)
>   y = property(gety, sety)
>
>   def getx(self):
>      return self.a + self.b
>   def setx(self, x):
>      y = self.y   # calls gety
>      self.a, self.b = 2*x - y, y-x
>
>   def gety(self):
>      return self.a + 2*self.b
>   def sety(self, y):
>      x = self.x    # calls getx
>      self.a, self.b = 2*x - y, y-x

 class Parrot(object):

   def getx(self):
      return self.a + self.b
   def setx(self, x):
      y = self.y   # calls gety
      self.a, self.b = 2*x - y, y-x

   def gety(self):
      return self.a + 2*self.b
   def sety(self, y):
      x = self.x    # calls getx
      self.a, self.b = 2*x - y, y-x

   x = property(getx, setx)
   y = property(gety, sety)



From pd at traxon.com  Fri Oct 21 12:55:04 2005
From: pd at traxon.com (Paul Dale)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:55:04 +0200
Subject: Binding a variable?
Message-ID: <43591D68.50005@traxon.com>


Hi everyone,

Is it possible to bind a list member or variable to a variable such that

temp = 5

list = [ temp ]

temp == 6

list

would show

list = [ 6 ]

Thanks in advance?

Paul


From rrr at ronadam.com  Mon Oct 24 23:10:17 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:10:17 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
In-Reply-To: <1130207021.408597.322950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130207021.408597.322950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <tmh7f.213029$p_1.13670@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Simon Burton wrote:

> Yes!
> 
> I do this a lot when i have deeply nested function calls
> a->b->c->d->e
> and need to pass args  to the deep function without changing the
> middle functions.

Yes, :-)  Which is something like what I'm doing also.  Get the 
dictionary, modify it or validate it somehow, then pass it on.  I also 
find that when I'm passing variables as keywords,

      foo(name=name, address=address, city=city)

I really don't want (or like) to have to access the names with 
dictionary key as *strings* in the function that is called and collects 
them in a single object.


> In this situation I think i would prefer this variation:
> 
> class Context(dict):
>   def __init__(self,**kwds):
>     dict.__init__(self,kwds)
>   def __getattr__(self, name):
>     return self.__getitem__(name)
>   def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>     self.__setitem__(name, value)
>   def __delattr__(self, name):
>     self.__delitem__(name)
 >
> def foo(ctx):
>    print ctx.color, ctx.size, ctx.shape
> 
> foo( Context(color='red', size='large', shape='ball') )
> 
> 
> This is looking like foo should be a method of Context now,
> but in my situation foo is already a method of another class.
> 
> Simon.

I didn't see what you were referring to at first.  But yes, I see the 
similarity.

Cheers,
    Ron








From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Sat Oct  8 14:50:47 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: 8 Oct 2005 11:50:47 -0700
Subject: Merging sorted lists/iterators/generators into one stream of
	values...
References: <m7mdnYzAJ_-F_9jeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<mailman.1646.1128644278.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128667968.421469.180910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691708.c6930b5cb9f3673ed3abe8755178d163@teranews>
	<1128692196.410209.252100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128695317.c6a5acb3e62787f011310c96f0c7cc35@teranews>
	<1h439qe.pz7c451jcec6hN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
	<ou-dnVbsxPqKaNre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<1128795319.09c32ac9943b0580a86b7bcada7facc1@teranews>
	<IZSdncJekYQBjNXeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <1128797447.501582.24560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

"Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote:

> George Sakkis wrote:
> <snip>
> > Just added a recipe at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440673. You can
try
> > both and see if there's any significant performance difference for your data.
> <snip>
>
> Thanks, will take a look at it later. The sort solution seems to work
> nicely. Might be a big difference if I have a lot of sources though as I
> bet the overhead in doing a sort of N items gets higher than doing a
> manipulation of a heap to place an item in the right spot, but with 4-5
> or a few more sources might not make an impact at all.

Unless you're talking about hundreds or thousands sources, it probably
won't. I would still go for the heap solution since IMO the resulting
code it's more readable and easier to understand.

George



From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 15:10:35 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:10:35 -0700
Subject: Extention Module/ list of chars-> string
Message-ID: <1129749035.667046.98630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am currently writing an extention module that needs to recieve a list
of characters that might vary in size from 0 to 8. This is written as a
list of characters rather than a string because it's easier to
manipulate. However, when I pass this list of characters into the
extention module, it keeps giving errors. Is there a way to do one of
the following?

A. Change a list of chars to a single string or
B. Read a list of chars in an extention module

Thanks!



From carsten at uniqsys.com  Mon Oct  3 16:41:48 2005
From: carsten at uniqsys.com (Carsten Haese)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:41:48 -0400
Subject: Dynamical loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>
References: <43418BF5.90504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1128372108.4070.31.camel@dot.uniqsys.com>

On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 15:52, Jacob Kroon wrote:
> Hi, I'm having some problems with implementing dynamical module loading. 
> First let me
> describe the scenario with an example:
> 
> modules/
>     fruit/
>         __init__.py
>         apple.py
>         banana.py
> 
> apple.py defines a class 'Apple', banana defines a class 'Banana'. The 
> problem lies in the
> fact that I want to be able to just drop a new .py-file, for instance 
> peach.py, and not change
> __init__.py, and it should automatically pickup the new file in 
> __init__.py. I've come halfway
> by using some imp module magic in __init__.py, but the problem I have is 
> that the instantiated
> objects class-names becomes fruit.apple.Apple/fruit.banana.Banana, whild 
> I want it to be
> fruit.Apple/fruit.Banana.
> 
> Is there a smarter way of accomplishing what I am trying to do ?
> If someone could give me a small example of how to achieve this I would 
> be very grateful.

How about something like this in fruit/__init__.py:

import os

fruit_dir = os.path.dirname(__file__)
fruit_files = [x for x in os.listdir(fruit_dir) if (x[-3:]=='.py' and x!='__init__.py')]
for fruit_file in fruit_files:
  module_name = fruit_files[:-3]
  exec "from %s import *" % module_name

HTH,

Carsten.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 12:00:59 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:00:59 +0100
Subject: Python interpreter bug
In-Reply-To: <1128694071.902605.201440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1687.1128692424.509.python-list@python.org>	<1128692705.964188.5720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1690.1128693730.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128694071.902605.201440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di663i$cnh$1@sea.gmane.org>

alainpoint at yahoo.fr wrote:
> I understand this, Steve.
> I thought the _cmp_ method was a helper for sorting purposes. Why is it
> that a membership test needs to call the __cmp__ method?

Can you suggest another way to test for set membership, given that 
instances aren't singletons? The only way to do so is to iterate over 
the list, asking "are these the same instance", followed (in the case of 
a "no" answer) by "are these two instances equal?".

Consider:

 >>> a = {1:'one'}
 >>> b = {2:'two'}
 >>> c = {1:'one'}
 >>> a is c
False
 >>> a in [b, c]
True
 >>>

What would you have Python do differently in these circumstances?

> If this isn't a bug, it is at least unexpected in my eyes.

Ah, right. So it's your eyes that need fixing! :-)

> Maybe a candidate for inclusion in the FAQ?
> Thank you for answering

A pleasure.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct  6 16:18:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:18:03 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<86u0fxi7gf.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434545b7$0$662$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <86mzlmpo5r.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xpsqictdq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86fyrepfgk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> I think we're using different definitions of statically typed
>> here. A language that is statically typed doesn't *need* type
>> inferencing - the types are all declared! Type determines the thypes
>> by inferenceing them from an examination of the program. 
>
> I thought static typing simply means the compiler knows the types of
> all the expressions (whether through declarations or inference) so it
> can do type checking at compile time:
>
>> So, for instance, it can determine that this function:
>> 
>> def foo():
>>     return 1
>> 
>> Won't ever return anything but an integer.
>
> Static typing in this case would mean that re.match('a.*b$', foo())
> would get a compile time error, not a runtime error, since re.match
> expects two string arguments.  This can happen through type inference
> w/o declarations.

Except for two problems:

One you noted:

> Note apropos the private variable discussion that CPython can't
> guarantee that foo() always returns an integer.  Something might
> change foo.func_code.co_code or something like that.

Two is that dynamic binding means that foo may not refer to the above
function when you get there at run time.

>> Maybe you're still writing code for a language with declerations? I
>> never felt that need. Then again, I came to Python from a language
>> that didn't require declerations: Scheme.
> I've done a fair amount of Lisp programming and have found the lack of
> compile-time type checking to cause about the same nuisance as in
> Python.

So have I - basically none at all.

>> > Well, in the end, I would really like an *option* at the beginning of a
>> > module file requiring variable declaration for the module. It would
>> > satisfy both the ones who want and the ones who don't want that ...
>> Nope. It would just change the argument from "Python should have ..."
>> to "You should always use ..." or "Module foo should use ...".
> Perl has a feature like that right now, and it doesn't lead to many such
> arguments.

As noted elsewhere, Perl isn't a good comparison. You don't simply say
"This variable exists", you say "this variable is local to this
function". Undeclared variables are dynamically bound, which means you
can get lots of non-obvious, nasty bugs that won't be caught by unit
testing. Making all your variables lexically bound (unless you really
need a dynamically bound variable) is a good idea. But that's already
true in Python.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From paschalis at interia.pl  Mon Oct 31 07:26:20 2005
From: paschalis at interia.pl (dale cooper)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 04:26:20 -0800
Subject: Tkinter problem
Message-ID: <1130761580.552145.167340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi everybody!
I've recently installed python2.4.2 on Fedora 4 (from downloaded
sources), but it appeared, that I can't use Tkinter module:

>>> import Tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured
for Tk
ImportError: libBLT24.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file
or directory

I tried the solution given in README file for RH9 (./configure
--enable-unicode=ucs4) despite they wrote the newer wersion didn't need
this hack. This is what I had after make instruction:

INFO: Can't locate Tcl/Tk libs and/or headers
*** WARNING: renaming "array" since importing it failed:
build/lib.linux-i686-2.4/array.so: undefined symbol:
PyUnicodeUCS2_FromUnicode
*** WARNING: renaming "_testcapi" since importing it failed:
build/lib.linux-i686-2.4/_testcapi.so: undefined symbol:
PyUnicodeUCS2_Decode
*** WARNING: renaming "unicodedata" since importing it failed:
build/lib.linux-i686-2.4/unicodedata.so: undefined symbol:
PyUnicodeUCS2_FromUnicode
*** WARNING: renaming "_locale" since importing it failed:
build/lib.linux-i686-2.4/_locale.so: undefined symbol:
PyUnicodeUCS2_AsWideChar
*** WARNING: renaming "cPickle" since importing it failed:
build/lib.linux-i686-2.4/cPickle.so: undefined symbol:
PyUnicodeUCS2_AsUTF8String
*** WARNING: renaming "pyexpat" since importing it failed:
build/lib.linux-i686-2.4/pyexpat.so: undefined symbol:
PyUnicodeUCS2_DecodeUTF8
*** WARNING: renaming "_multibytecodec" since importing it failed:
build/lib.linux-i686-2.4/_multibytecodec.so: undefined symbol:
PyUnicodeUCS2_FromUnicode
running build_scripts

It seems that --enable-unicode=ucs4 wasn't the right way. I tried
another hack: ./configure --enable-shared, but it still couldn't locate
Tcl/Tk libs and/or headers. Then I installed RPMs:

[root at localhost Python-2.4.2]# rpm -q tk
tk-8.4.9-3
[root at localhost Python-2.4.2]# rpm -q tcl
tcl-8.4.9-3
[root at localhost Python-2.4.2]# rpm -q tkinter
tkinter-2.4.1-2

and tried to do the hacks above, but it still could'nt find these libs.
What can I do?



From http  Tue Oct 11 03:10:01 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:10:01 -0700
Subject: Batteries Included?
References: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndkmnp9.u50.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>
Message-ID: <7xwtkk7cmu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination> writes:
> > I might be wrong expecting that a language whose moto is "Batteries
> > Included" would be able to produce exe files.
> 
> Indeed, you're wrong. Why would such an ability be included in Python?

distutils.exe, included in Python, in fact does have the ability to
produce .exe files, just not completely general ones.

> It's a cross platform language. What need would Mac, Linux, BSD,
> Solaris etc. users have for such a feature? 

The same need that they have for msvcrt, winreg, winsound, or the SGI
IRIX specific functions currently in the library.  The same need that
Windows users have for the Unix specific parts which are in the
library.  The same need that non-numeric programmers have for the
cmath module, which is also in the library.

> And why would it have to be included, when there is an easy solution
> just around the corner?  You prooved that it was easy enough to
> install and use by someone who just learned Python. I really don't
> see the problem here.

Um, if the TV ad for some Walkman says "batteries included" and the
batteries aren't included, you have legitimate reason to ask what's
going on.  That it's easy enough for you to go to the store and buy
batteries separately is irrelevant.  You didn't get what was
advertised.

Now a Windows .exe installer wasn't one of the advertised features of
Python and maybe there's good reasons to leave it out, but its
platform specificness is not one of those reasons.  There's already
plenty of platform specific stuff in Python.

Personally I think including a .exe packager in Python would be a
great idea.  As a Linux user I can't easily run Windows-specific
utilities like Inno Setup.  So I don't have a good way to make .exe's
from my Python code that Windows users can easily run.  Having a cross
platform .exe packager included with Python would be useful the same
way cross compilers are useful.  I'm using an x86 computer but I can
easily configure gcc to produce ARM code.  Why shouldn't my Linux
Python installation be able to produce Windows .exe's?


From greymaus at cableone.net  Sat Oct 15 20:07:56 2005
From: greymaus at cableone.net (Greymaus)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:07:56 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <11l369039d6ppe0@corp.supernews.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> You clearly weren't paying attention to what the rest
> of the microcomputer industry was doing while Gates was selling IBM
> non-existent software. While IBM was introducing 16-bit processors and
> DOS was doing a flat file system, Tandy was selliig systems - for a
> fraction of the price of any MS-DOS based system - that were
> multitasking, multiuser, had an optional windowing system that came
> with a complete (for the time) office suite. Of course, that was while
> Tandy still thought they could sell computers by selling better
> computers than you could get running MS software. 


Was that the Color Computer III running OS9 Level II for an operating 
system, that you're talking about?  Motorola 6809 processor?  HELLUVA 
little computer!  OS9 was a bit quirky, though, even for a UNIX clone.



From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Fri Oct 14 21:09:36 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:09:36 -0000
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>


"Kenneth McDonald" <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list at python.org...
> Thanks for reminding me of Gtk. OK, add that to the list.
>
> The Web Browser interface is good for simple things, and will get better
> with CSS2's adoption, but they still don't have a good way for important
> things like interactive styled text, key bindings, etc. Good for
> simple things
> (for which I use them), not for more complex stuff.

I don't fully understand your attitude here. The Web Browser interface has
all I can imagine is required for a GUI, so what is missing when you
consider, that you can generate custom images on the fly on the server and
let the user shape the page without requesting CPU power from the server
using JavaScript.
I don't even name here the not really beeing itegral part of Internet
Browsers JavaApplets and any other kind of plugin stuff.
The only issue I can see with this approach is the speed of responding to
user interactions, but for really optimize this one needs a compiled
language anyway.
What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser as a
GUI?
Do I miss here something?

Claudio





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 22:06:49 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:06:49 +1000
Subject: Pythoncard mental block
References: <1128705924.303422.31650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.08.02.06.48.557989@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:25:24 -0700, jlocc wrote:

> Hi!!
> 
> I am working on a school project and I decided to use PythonCard and
> wxPython for my GUI development. I need a password window that will
> block unwanted users from the system. I got the pop-up password
> question to work...

I haven't seen any replies to this, so even though I don't actually
use Pythoncard I'll take a wild shot in the dark.


>    def on_openBackground(self, event):
> 
>         result = dialog.textEntryDialog(self,
>                                     'System',
>                                     'Please enter your password: ',
>                                     '')
> 
> .....but I don't exactly remember how to check if the entered password
> is correct. Say I hard code the password to be 'hello', then how would I
> check if this was the input or if it wasn't???

Start with looking at result and seeing what is in it. If it is the input
string, then just say 

if result == 'hello':
    # do whatever you need to
else:
    # put up a dialog saying 'Password does not match!'

But I'm guessing from the syntax that the dialog instance itself is stored
in result, so perhaps you need to look at some attribute of result:

if result.userInput == "hello":  # or something like that?

Lastly, I might not have used Pythoncard, but years ago I used to use
Hypercard rather a lot. In Hypercard, the password dialog would use a
one-way hash function to encrypt the typed response into a large integer
value. I assume Pythoncard is designed to do the same thing as Hypercard.

So, in rusty Hypercard syntax with Python-style comments:

# retrieve the numeric value of the password
put field "hidden password" into userpassword
# put up a dialog asking the user to enter a password
ask password "Please enter your password:"
if the result is "" then:
    # the user clicked Cancel, so just abort or go away or something
    go home
else if the result is userpassword:
    # we have a match!
    go to card "Secret card"
else:
    # password doesn't match
    go to card "Password failure"


Hope this is of some help to you, and I haven't led you too far astray.


-- 
Steven.



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 04:34:59 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:34:59 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<2u59l1555jubv8qv09q57qh8m4skei9dqi@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F313F71494Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3tc9l11oejnq3i2hnrld7akujouk3771tv@4ax.com>

On 18 Oct 2005 06:57:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :

>>>That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML recommendation by 
>>>w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, and mixing them up by 
>>>calling both standards is a bad thing.
>> 
>> Because ... what are the consequences?
>
>If you mean if you are put in jail for 20 years, and tortured, none.

No. ANY consequences.  You have not explained the downside.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  6 03:11:11 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:11:11 +0100
Subject: Class methods
In-Reply-To: <20051005200733.GA18786@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>
References: <42C7E766869C42408F0360B7BF0CBD9B01CD75BE@pnlmse27.pnl.gov>	<43441FF2.6000002@designaproduct.biz>	<434420CD.6060908@designaproduct.biz>
	<20051005200733.GA18786@topjaklont.student.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <di2im6$7q7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Laszlo Zsolt Nagy wrote:
> 
>>>Oh man, it has been a long time I have read such an disturbing question.
>>>
>>>RTMF here:  http://docs.python.org/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-14
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>I feel I was a bit harsh.
> 
> 
> Of course, those posts do keep the Google count for the famous
> four-letter-abbreviation down (-;
> 
> Gerrit.
> 
I'd been thinking it was about time the mucking fanual was updated.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 19 16:06:53 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:06:53 -0000
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11ld9qtgvead8d0@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-19, pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com <pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com> wrote:

> So I want to define a method that takes a "boolean" in a module, eg.
>
> def getDBName(l2):
> ...
>
> Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?

Python doesn't have variables.

Python has objects of various types.  You can bind 0 or more
names an object.

> Eg.
> x = 10 # makes it an INT
> whereas
> x = "hello" # makes it a string

No, not really.  There is no "it" that's becoming different
types.

  x = 10

creates an integer object with the value 10 and binds the name
"x" to it.

 x = "hello"

creates a string object containing the value "hello" and then
unbinds the name "x" from the integer object and re-binds it to
the string object.  [At that point, the integer object _may_
get deleted if it's not being used any longer (it may have had
multiple names).]

> I take it, the parameters to a function (in the above example "l2") are
> bound in the definition, rather than as invoked.

Not sure I understand the question.  The function you defined
accepts a single object as a parameter.  When the function is
invoked, that object has the local name "l2" bound to it 

> So, if I use "l2" thus:
>
> if (l2): # only then does it make it a boolean?

That doesn't affect the type of the object with the name "l2"
at all.  It checks to see if l2 has a false value or not.
Examples of basic objects with false values are an iteger 0, a
floating point 0.0, an empty string "", an empty list [], an
empty tuple (), or an empty dictionary {}.

> and if I did,
>
> if (l2 = "hello"): # would it become string?

That's not legal python.  I presume you mean

  if l2 == "hello":

The expression

  l2 == "hello"

checks to see if the object with the name "l2" is a string with
the value "hello".  If the object you passed to the function is
a string object with the value "hello", that experession will
be true.  The expression will be false for any object that
isn't a string, and false for any string object that doesn't
have the value "hello".

> and what if I never used it in the definition body?

Then it doesn't get used.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I just forgot my
                                  at               whole philosophy of life!!!
                               visi.com            


From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Mon Oct  3 14:52:49 2005
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:52:49 -0500
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <dhrulu$2o2$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Roel Schroeven wrote:
> Peter Decker wrote:
> 
>>On 10/3/05, Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>>On lists like this, where everyone benefits by sharing information, it
>>seems pretty lame to hide behind purist arguments about Reply-To:
>>headers. The default behavior should be the one most useful to the
>>list. Think for a moment how many useful bits of information you've
>>missed because the default for this list it to make conversations
>>private.
> 
> 
> The default of this list is not to make conversations private; in fact
> the list doesn't have any default. It's you who chooses to send replies
> to the original author, to the list, or both, by choosing which button
> to press in your mail client.

It's a sad but unavoidable fact that most people, in the regular course 
of emailing, never use (nor have reason to use) the "reply to all" 
button. In any "normal" email exchange, hitting the reply button does 
what you want it to. As a consequence of this, a large portion of the 
e-mail using public never thinks to do more than hit the "reply" button. 
It's great that *you* and *I* are technically savvy enough to hit the 
"reply all/list" button when needed, but the other people on the list 
might not be. I've seen mailing lists reduced to near uselessness 
because of it: you get people posting questions to the list, but no 
replies, because all of the people replying are responding by pressing 
"reply" and sending private messages.

FWIW, I use the newsgroup version of this list, and the "reply" button 
on my mail/newsreader does what I want it too - reply to the list only. 
(I hate getting an additional personal email for a publicly posted response)


From Gerald.Klix at klix.ch  Wed Oct 26 04:11:39 2005
From: Gerald.Klix at klix.ch (Gerald Klix)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:11:39 +0200
Subject: Listen in promiscuous mode (Sniffer) on UDP port 162 and copy
	packetsto another port
References: <3DC50FF8E8D8CF42983C2ACB9230FA4FA0038A@MNTNRA02-FNP00.telkom.co.za>
Message-ID: <002201c5da04$e489fd20$e92d200a@ppp5>

Hi Henko,
the proper solution to this problem ist to use on libpcap's python bindings,
like for example Billy The Kid.

Here are some pointers:
http://home.student.utwente.nl/g.v.berg/btk/
http://pycap.sourceforge.net/
http://monkey.org/~dugsong/pypcap/
http://www.tcpdump.org/ (libpcap)

HTH Gerald

----- Original Message -----
From: Henko Gouws (H)
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: Listen in promiscuous mode (Sniffer) on UDP port 162 and copy
packetsto another port


Dear reader

An application A opens UDP port 162 and listens for incoming packets.  We
have another application B that wants to receive the same information from
UDP port 162 but this application cannot open the port 162 because it is
already opened by application A.  We want both A and B to receive
information from port 162.

Does anyone know how to implement such a solution using Python or give
relevant advice?  Alternatively does anyone know about any postings that
involved Ethernet sniffers or Python programs listening to network traffic
in promiscuous mode?

Thank you

regards
Henko Gouws (Pr. Eng.)
Senior Engineer: Technical Product Development
Telkom Development Lab
Tel:  +27 12 529 7385
Fax: +27 12 548 0065

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This e-mail and its contents are subject to the Telkom SA Limited
e-mail legal notice available at
http://www.telkom.co.za/TelkomEMailLegalNotice.PDF
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 00:34:25 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:34:25 -0700
Subject: How to replace all None values with the string "Null" in a
	dictionary
References: <1130444785.353905.85380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<867jbyit7b.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <43618c43.1143739260@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1h540ra.1b4wj2t1gof1syN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> Which is probably more efficient than one-liner updating the dict with
> 
>     mydict.update((k,'Null') for k,v in mydict.items() if v is None)

...which in turn is probably better than

_auxd = {None: "Null"}
newd = dict((k, _auxd.get(k, c) for k, c in mydict.items())

[which might be a nice idea if you wanted to do _several_
substitutions;-)...]


Alex


From rrr at ronadam.com  Thu Oct  6 15:15:48 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:15:48 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <4344c53e.3325034196@news.oz.net>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<6xO0f.166857$p_1.72982@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<4344c53e.3325034196@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <EJe1f.534$ae.439@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:10:58 GMT, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

>>Looking at it from a different direction, how about adding a keyword to 
>>say,  "from this point on, in this local name space, disallow new 
>>names".  Then you can do...
>>
>>def few(x,y):
>>   a = 'a'
>>   b = 'b'
>>   i = j = k = l = None
>>   no_new_names
>>   # raise an error after here if a new name is used.
>>   ...
>>   for I in range(10):   <--  error
>>      ...
>>
>>This is more suitable to Pythons style than declaring types or variables 
>>I think.  Add to this explicit name-object locking to implement 
>>constants and I think you would have most of the features you want.
>>
> 
> You can do that now with a decorator, if you are willing to assign something
> to no_new_names (so it won't give you a name error if it doesn't exist). E.g.,

Works for me.

    __lock_names__ = True

It's not too different than __name__ == '__main__'...


>  >>> def nnn(f):
>  ...     names = f.func_code.co_names
>  ...     assert 'no_new_names' not in names or names[-1]=='no_new_names', 'Bad name:%r'%names[-1]
>  ...     return f
>  ...
>  >>> @nnn
>  ... def few(x,y):
>  ...     a = 'a'
>  ...     b = 'b'
>  ...     i = j = k = l = None
>  ...     no_new_names=None
>  ...     for i in range(10): print i,
>  ...
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 3, in nnn
>  AssertionError: Bad name:'range'

Hmm... To make it work this way, the globals and arguments need to have 
local references.

@nnn
def few(x,y):
     global range
     range = range
     x,y = x,y
     a = 'a'
     b = 'b'
     i = j = k = l = None
     L = 1
     __no_new_names__ = True
     L += 1
     for i in range(x,y):
         print I

>  >>> @nnn
>  ... def few(x,y):
>  ...     a = 'a'
>  ...     b = 'b'
>  ...     i = j = k = l = None
>  ...     no_new_names=None
>  ...     return a,b,i,j,k,l
>  ...
>  >>> few(123,456)
>  ('a', 'b', None, None, None, None)
> 
> No guarantees, since this depends on the unguaranteed order of f.func_code.co_names ;-)

I had the thought that collecting the names from the 'STORE FAST' lines 
of dis.dis(f) would work nicely, but...  dis.dis() doesn't return a 
string like I expected, but prints the output as it goes.  This seems 
like it would be easy to fix and it would make the dis module more 
useful.  I'd like to be able to do...

    D = dis.dis(f)

An alternate option to output the disassembly to a list of of tuples. 
That would make analyzing the output really easy.  ;-)

Something like...

    good_names = []
    nnnames = False
    for line in dis.dislist(f):
        if line[2] = 'SAVE_FAST':
            if not nnnames:
                if line[-1] = '(__no_new_names__)':
                    nnnames=True
                    continue
                good_names.append(line[-1])
            else:
                 assert line[-1]in good_names, 'Bad name:%r'% line[-1] 



So, I wonder what kind of errors can be found by analyzing the disassembly?


>>so...
>>
>>    no_new_names     # limit any new names
>>    lock_name name   # lock a name to it's current object
> 
> That last one you could probably do with a decorator that imports dis and
> checks the disassembly (or does the equivalent check of the byte code) of f
> for STORE_FASTs directed to particular names after the lock_name name declaration,
> which you would have to spell as a legal dummy statement like
>     lock_name = 'name'
> 
> or perhaps better, indicating a locked assignment e.g. to x by
> 
>     x = lock_name = expr  # lock_name is dummy target to notice in disassembly, to lock x from there on

Using dis.dis it becomes two sequential 'STORE_FAST' operations.  So add 
(x) to the don't change list, and catch it on the next 'STORE_FAST' for 
(x).  ;-)

  28          12 LOAD_GLOBAL              2 (True)
              15 DUP_TOP
              16 STORE_FAST               0 (x)
              19 STORE_FAST               8 (__lock_name__)


>>Since names are stored in dictionaries,  a dictionary attribute to 
>>disallow/allow new keys, and a way to set individual elements in a 
>>dictionary to read only would be needed.  Once you can do that and it 
>>proves useful, then maybe you can propose it as a language feature.
> 
> I would want to explore how to compose functionality with existing elements
> before introducing either new elements or new syntax. E.g., the dictionaries
> used for instance attribute names and values already exist, and you can already
> build all kinds of restrictions on the use of attribute names via properties
> and descriptors of other kinds and via __getattribute__ etc.

That was more or less what I had in mind, but I think keeping things as 
passive as possible is what is needed.  One thought is to use this type 
of thing along with __debug__.

    if __debug__: __nnn__ = True


Wouldn't a debug block or suite be better than an if __debug__:?  Just a 
thought.  Even if the -0 option is given the if __debug__: check is 
still there.  Which means you still need to comment it out if it's in an 
inner loop.

debug: __nnn__ = True    # Is not included if __debug__ is false.

or...

    MAX = 256
    MIN = 0
    debug:
        __lock__ = MIN, MAX      # helps checker app
        __no_new_names__ = True  # find bugs.

    for MAX in range(1000):    # If __debug__, checker app catches
this.
        if m<MIN or m>MAX:
            print m


>>These might also be checked for in the compile stage and would probably 
>>be better as it wouldn't cause any slow down in the code or need a new 
>>dictionary type.
> 
> Although note that the nnn decorator above does its checking at run time,
> when the decorator is executed just after the _def_ is anonymously _executed_
> to create the function nnn gets handed to check or modify before what it
> returns is bound to the def function name. ;-)

Yes. ;-)

Is there a way to conditionally decorate?  For example if __debug__ is 
True, but not if it's False?  I think I've asked this question before. (?)

Cheers,
Ron


From mwm at mired.org  Tue Oct 25 16:08:37 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:08:37 -0400
Subject: [OT] Re: output from external commands
References: <435C6642.8020504@colannino.org> <djjirf$ms8$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200510241904.52917.bulliver@badcomputer.org>
	<mailman.2549.1130252654.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <868xwh4awq.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> writes:
> I think Mr. Lundh's point was only that the output from glob.glob is already
> guaranteed to be strings, so using either '%s'%f or str(f) is superfluous.

Just for the record - this was why I asked what the point was in the
first place.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From johnandsarah at estragon.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Oct  8 19:48:13 2005
From: johnandsarah at estragon.freeserve.co.uk (John Perks and Sarah Mount)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 00:48:13 +0100
Subject: [regex] case-splitting strings in unicode
Message-ID: <di9m1c$fm2$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

I have to split some identifiers that are casedLikeThis into their
component words. In this instance I can safely use [A-Z] to represent
uppercase, but what pattern should I use if I wanted it to work more
generally? I can envisage walking the string testing the
unicodedata.category of each char, but is there a regex'y way to denote
"uppercase"?

Thanks

John




From rich.teer at rite-group.com  Sat Oct  8 19:33:13 2005
From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:33:13 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>

On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Roedy Green wrote:

> Some people use email PRIMARILY for sharing photos.

WHat the hell has that got to do with HTML email?  Sending photos
is an example of what attachments are for.

> --
> Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
> http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
>

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich


From http  Fri Oct  7 08:30:56 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2005 05:30:56 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<434651f4$0$11145$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1670.1128683003.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtkp8rwy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128687719.783871.50090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x7jcpzeyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at web.de> writes:
>  - FPs share their own set of problems - try writing a server. The
> have inherent troubles with event-driven programs.

Erlang?

> Still, FP is cool. But python too. And just attaching some
> type-inference to python won't work.

Yeah, I've figured declarations in Python would be more like Common
Lisp's, i.e. optional, enforced at compile time only when the compiler
can easily figure it out, and at runtime otherwise.


From howardrh at westerncom.net  Wed Oct 26 14:16:29 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 11:16:29 -0700
Subject: suggestions between these two books
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <1130350589.728424.193990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I suggest you widen your search and you take a look at Chris Fehily's
Python book.  It is one of Peachpit Press's Visual Quickstart Guide
books. The reason I suggest this book is it provides a lot more short
examples of basic Python code than the two in your list.

Howard

John Salerno wrote:
> Hi all. I'm fairly new to programming and I thought I'd like to try
> Python. I'm trying to decide between these two books:
>
> Learning Python (O'Reilly)
> Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional (APress)
>
> and I was hoping you might have some suggestions. LP seems to be a good
> intro, but the other was published only a month ago and covers 2.4. So
> one question would be, is 2.2 different enough from 2.4 to warrant
> getting the newer book for that reason?
>
> I might end up getting both eventually, but to start with I'm not sure
> which to choose.
> 
> Thanks!



From enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com  Sun Oct  2 15:45:00 2005
From: enleverlesO.OmcO at OmclaveauO.com (Do Re Mi chel La Si Do)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 21:45:00 +0200
Subject: Parrot & Python ? 
Message-ID: <4340393e$0$16536$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !

On the site of Amber :  http://xamber.org/index.html
We can to view the sentence : "Parrot version of Python"
Question :  what is "Parrot version of Python" ?

@-salutations

Michel Claveau












From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 09:06:46 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:06:46 +0100
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A5@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

Tim Golden enlightened us with:
> But as far as I can tell from my experience and from the docs -- and
> I'm not near a Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall
> line x in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2
> etc.  Or can you?

[Sybren]
With bash as well as the Python interactive shell:

[.. explanation snipped ..]

Thanks very much.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
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From davids at webmaster.com  Tue Oct 18 23:30:42 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:30:42 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Roedy Green" <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote in 
message news:4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho at 4ax.com...

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:29 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>>The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders.
>>>
>>> If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath.
>>
>>    That's almost as convincing as "that's what you think".

> Taken literally, you think MS has no obligation to obey the law, to
> its customers, to its employees.

    No, taken stupidly. Hint: would or would not MS executives disobeying 
the law constitute a betrayal of their obligation to their shareholders?

> I don't think you will find many CEOs espousing those sentiments,
> though you will in alt.politics.bush from those who have just read
> their first book outside of school reading and picked an Ayn Rand
> novel.

    The validity of an idea does not depend upon who it comes from. This is 
a sad attempt at guilt by association.

    DS




From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Sun Oct  2 12:56:05 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 09:56:05 -0700
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1349.1128268702.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<1128249650.166566.81790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1343.1128252067.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128255017.708134.49380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1349.1128268702.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128272165.047015.264920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

As you said this is in early stage  0.1-alpha-alpha :-)
I'm not the author of this interesting piece of work it is Tim Stebbing
I only wanted to share Tim's work.
Don't hesitate to contact him on the nufox mailin list
It runs on top of twisted-nevow.
Indeed for now the application is not reinitialized on load, but those
are
simple examples and there is not yet 'session object'

Regards



From cc at dd.org  Thu Oct 20 06:58:52 2005
From: cc at dd.org (cc at dd.org)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:58:52 +0800
Subject: =?gb2312?B?1NrP+8+iICJIaSLW0Leiz9ayoba+?=
Message-ID: <20051020105910.580A91E4004@bag.python.org>

The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 11 22:22:00 2005
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:22:00 -0500
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
In-Reply-To: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>
References: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>
Message-ID: <20051012022200.GJ21569@unpythonic.net>

If you're always going from grey to tinted, then the easiest way is to 
treat it as a 'P' image with a special palette.

I believe this function will prepare the palette:
        def make_palette(tr, tg, tb):
            l = []
            for i in range(255):
                l.extend([tr*i / 255, tg*i / 255, tb*i / 255])
            return l

Here's an example:
	import Image

	A, B, C = map(chr, [64, 128, 192])
	i = Image.fromstring(
	    'P', (4,4), ''.join([
	    B,B,B,B,
	    B,C,C,A,
	    B,C,C,A,
	    B,A,A,A]))
	i.putpalette(make_palette(64,64,255))
	i.show()

Jeff
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From henkjan at xs4all.nl  Sun Oct 23 17:09:51 2005
From: henkjan at xs4all.nl (Henk-Jan de Jong)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:09:51 +0200
Subject: Hengelsportbeurs
Message-ID: <435BFC1F.3090308@xs4all.nl>

http://www.drentorganisatiebureau.nl/beurs/indexfront.html

Nog zin om te gaan?


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 15:39:40 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:39:40 +0200
Subject: new forum -- homework help/chit chat/easy communication
References: <1128798687.305818.66010@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><aY6dnVCeQcxMh9XeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<200510082136.00441.mail@tuxipuxi.org>
Message-ID: <di979q$q4v$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michael Goettsche wrote:

> Besides that, it's cheap advertising. Would it have been harder to post the
> direct forum link than to link to his company's website?

company?

</F> 





From bonono at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 06:32:11 2005
From: bonono at gmail.com (bonono at gmail.com)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 03:32:11 -0700
Subject: generic xmerge ?
Message-ID: <1129545131.875544.122630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I was reading this recipe and am wondering if there is a generic
version of it floating around ? My list is a tuple (date, v1, v2, v3)
and I would like it to sort on date. The documentation doesn't mention
how the items are compared and the example only use integers.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/141934



From jabel at plus.net  Wed Oct 19 06:16:33 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:16:33 +0100
Subject: "dynamical" importing
In-Reply-To: <dj5446$sto$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1129711017.413612.60350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>	<43560961.9070504@plus.net>
	<dj5446$sto$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <43561D01.70700@plus.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>John Abel wrote:
>
>  
>
>>def _importModule( moduleName ):
>>    modName = __import__ ( moduleName )
>>    modComponents = moduleName.split( '.' )
>>    for indivComp in modComponents[ 1: ]:
>>        modName = getattr( modName, indivComp )
>>
>>   return modName
>>    
>>
>
>__import__ takes a module name, not an arbitrary file name.
>
></F> 
>
>
>
>  
>
Didn't mean to imply that it did.  By pathToModule, I meant spam.ham as 
in 
http://localhost/documentation/Python-Docs-2.4.1/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-6 
( hopefully, that should explain things to the OP ).

J


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 17 12:58:17 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:58:17 -0700
Subject: Writing an immutable object in python
References: <1129562898.812915.238430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <donn-DD7009.09581717102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <1129562898.812915.238430 at g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "Mapisto" <mapisto at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've noticed that if I initialize list of integers in the next manner:
> 
> >>> my_list = [0] * 30
> 
> It works just fine, even if I'll try to assign one element:
> 
> >>> id( my_list[4] )
> 10900116
> >>> id( my_list[6] )
> 10900116
> >>> my_list[4] = 6
> >>> id( my_list[4] )
> 10900044
> >>> id( my_list[6] )
> 10900116
> 
> The change in the poision occurs becouse int() is an immutable object.
> 
> if I will do the same with a user-defined object, This reference
> manipulating will not happen. So, every entry in the array will refer
> to the same instance.

Not at all.  If you do the same thing,
  class C:
    pass
  c = C()
  a = [c]*12

... etc., you should observe the same pattern with respect to
object identities.  Mutability doesn't really play any role here.

> Is there a way to bypass it (or perhaps to write a self-defined
> immutable object)?

Bypass what?  What do you need?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From sjuranic at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 18:34:37 2005
From: sjuranic at gmail.com (Steve Juranich)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:34:37 -0700
Subject: Making "import" *SLIGHTLY* more verbose?
Message-ID: <56190b6c0510251534xd69e4c1u443d0d9512df1c62@mail.gmail.com>

First of all, just let me say that I'm aware of the "-v" switch for
Python, and I don't want anything nearly that verbose.

I often long for the following behavior from Python when I'm running
interactively: When a new module is imported, I'd like the path to the
file providing the module to be printed out to the screen.  If the
module is already in sys.modules, then don't worry about printing
anything.

The best thing that I can think of to do is something like:

<python>
__builtins__.__real_import__ = __builtins__.__import__

def noisy_import(name, globals = globals(), locals = locals(), fromlist = []):
    printit = name not in sys.modules
    mod = __real_import__(name, globals, locals, fromlist)
    if printit:
        try:
            print '## Loading %s (%s)' % (mod.__name__, mod.__file__)
        except AttributeError:
            print '## Loading %s (built-in)' % mod.__name__
    return mod

__builtins__.__import__ = noisy_import
</python>

Which seems to work okay for basic kinds of modules, but doesn't quite
work right for modules that belong to a particular class.  Any
suggestions on what I might be missing here?  I would imagine that
this is a cookbook type thing, and if there are any references on how
to do this, I'd greatly appreciate it (I couldn't come up with the
right Google magic words).

Thanks in advance for any help.

--
Steve Juranich
Tucson, AZ
USA


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 20 05:00:48 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:00:48 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96F5560E865D8duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrndlen60.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-20, Duncan Booth schreef <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> The problem now is that the cmp protocol has no way to
>> indicate two objects are incomparable, they are not
>> equal but neither is one less or greater than the other.
>
> If that is the case then you implement __eq__ and __ne__ to return 
> True/False and make cmp throw an exception. I don't see any need to extend 
> the cmp protocol.

That is not sufficient. There are domains where an order exists, but not
a total order. So for some couples of elements it is possible to say
one is less than the other, but not for all such couples.

Your solution wouldn't allow for such a case.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From bulliver at badcomputer.org  Wed Oct 26 07:37:56 2005
From: bulliver at badcomputer.org (darren kirby)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 04:37:56 -0700
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
In-Reply-To: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A1@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
References: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A1@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>
Message-ID: <200510260438.02576.bulliver@badcomputer.org>

quoth the Tim Golden:
> As it happens, (and I suspect I'll have to don my flameproof suit here),
> I prefer the Windows command line to bash/readline for day-to-day use,
> including in Python. Why? Because it does what I can't for the life of
> me get readline to do: you can type the first few letters of a
> previously-entered command and press F8. This brings up (going backwards
>
> with further presses) the last command which starts like that. And
> *then*
> you can just down-arrow to retrieve the commands which followed it.
> If someone can tell me how to do this with bash/readline I will be
> indebted to them and it will increase my chances of switching to Linux
> a bit! (Although not at work where I have no choice!)

Try ctrl-r in bash, then type your first few letters...

-d
-- 
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
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From smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca  Wed Oct 12 09:11:44 2005
From: smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca (Mohammed Smadi)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:11:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: calling matlab
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510120909530.13291-100000@grads.ece.mcmaster.ca>

Hi;

Does anyone know if we can call matlab for a python or bash script while 
feeding the matlab script some command line arguments?  I have an 
interactive matlab script which i want to automate by feeding the args 
from a script.

I know this is probably more suitable to a matlab group but any ideas will 
be appreciated.

thanks
moe smadi



From rolf.wester at ilt.fraunhofer.de  Fri Oct 21 05:21:43 2005
From: rolf.wester at ilt.fraunhofer.de (Rolf Wester)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:21:43 +0200
Subject: Python extension module segmentation fault
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2345.1129884316.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <4358a322$1@news.fhg.de>
	<mailman.2345.1129884316.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4358b329@news.fhg.de>

Robert Kern wrote:

> 
> 
> Did you call import_array() in init_mytest()?
> 
No I didn't. Thank you very much for your help. Now it works.

With kind regards

Rolf Wester


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sun Oct 23 10:02:06 2005
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:02:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <djg54u$ct5$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> 
>> - comparison returns 4 values (i.e. inferior, equal, superior or not
>> comparable), as in Pliant: "compare"
> 
>>>> cmp("a", "b")
> -1
>>>> cmp("a", "a")
> 0
>>>> cmp("b", "a")
> 1
>>>> cmp("?", u"?")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte /.../

that is not because of the comparison, but because of the coercion:

>>> '?'+u'?'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>>> 

> 
> sure looks like four possible outcomes.


>>> cmp(1, 1+2j)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=


a fifth one :-)


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct 26 17:04:20 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:04:20 -0500
Subject: 64 bit python binaries (or builds) for Xeon and Opteron
	architectures on Windows platforms
In-Reply-To: <1130347953.003322.288350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130347953.003322.288350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435FEF54.8010807@websafe.com>

We are running 64 bit compiled python on Red Hat Fedora Core 3.
Hardware is 64 bit on Dual Opteron HP servers running SMP.

FYI, Larry

louis_pastorik at symantec.com wrote:
> Does anyone have any information about 64 bit python support for Xeon
> and Opteron architectures on Windows platforms? If anyone has built the
> python runtime on either of these platforms before I would be really
> interested. Thanks.
> 


From rrr at ronadam.com  Sun Oct 23 00:52:19 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 04:52:19 GMT
Subject: Question about inheritance...
In-Reply-To: <1130028891.235502.236320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130028891.235502.236320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7GE6f.1836$Zd.449@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

KraftDiner wrote:

> Well here is a rough sketch of my code...
> This is giving my two problems.
> 
> 1) TypeError: super() argument 1 must be type, not classobj
> 2) I want to be sure the the draw code calls the inherited classes
> outline and not its own...
> 
> class Shape:
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		pass
> 	def render(self):
> 		print self.__class___
> 		self.outline()
> 	def outline(self):
> 		pass
> 
> class Rect(Shape):
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		super(self.__class__, self).__init__()
> 	def render(self):
> 		super(self.__class__, self).draw()
> 	def outline(self):
> 		print 'outline' + self.__class__

I think Alex probably answered your question.  I'm still trying to 
figure out how use inheritance effectively myself.


Are you using this as an way to learn Python or do you want to use 
Python to render images?


What I'm trying to do in relation to this is to build a "small" subset 
of the SVG standard in tkinter. It looks like the SVG standard is going 
to be very popular graphic format on the web, hand held devices, and as 
a general graphics format.

	http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/

Python doesn't have good SVG support built in without importing a third 
party library, and the ones that are available need other libraries, 
etc...  They don't really support using SVG directly in programs.  So 
I'm experimenting with emplimenting some of the SVG functionality in 
Tkinter for drawing icons in dialog box's.  It's an experiment at the 
moment, but I'd like to see it grow into something more.

It doesn't need to be exactly like it, but the closer it is to the way 
the SVG standard works, the better.  That would make it easier to use 
some 'simple' existing SVG images, and easier to create SVG files as 
well, as it closes the gap between the canvas object and the VGA standard.

Anyway, I'm more than willing to get involved in a group to do this if 
anyone is interested and also thinks it may be worth while.

Cheers,
    Ron













From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  3 09:16:01 2005
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:16:01 GMT
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> [Andrew]
> 
>>Is it just me, or does python-list at python.org not send with a Reply- 
>>To header?
> 
> 
> It's not just you.  I don't get one either.

Indeed, and that's by design: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

-- 
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants.  -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven


From lassevk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 12:24:45 2005
From: lassevk at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:24:45 -0700
Subject: sort problem
In-Reply-To: <4357c22d$0$8481$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
References: <4357c22d$0$8481$5fc30a8@news.tiscali.it>
Message-ID: <1129825485.883210.297890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

How about:

list.sort(key=lambda x: x[3])

Does that work?



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Oct 17 04:42:40 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:42:40 +0200
Subject: subtyping a builtin type in a C extension
In-Reply-To: <1129522775.678995.80090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129522775.678995.80090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43536400.7090703@ghaering.de>

shawn wrote:
> I am trying to make a subtype of a string. Initially it will have no
> new methods or attributes, the C equivalent of:
> 
> class myStr(str):
>     pass
> 
> I have experimented a bit, but am currently making a mess of it. Does
> anybody have an example they can point to of inheriting from a builtin,
> or a suggestion to point me in the right direction?

The Python source distribution contains an example module xxsubtype that 
shows how to subclass builtins:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Modules/xxsubtype.c?rev=2.15.2.1&view=markup

-- Gerhard



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 19:36:11 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:36:11 +1000
Subject: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<ditjro$u1u$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.16.16.01.43.591166@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<diuehq$dvb$1@chessie.cirr.com>
	<7xk6gdyxuu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.23.36.11.625393@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:07:37 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> The complexity of hashing depends intricately on the the data and if
> the data is carefully constructed by someone with detailed knowledge
> of the hash implementation, it may be as bad as O(n) rather than O(1)
> or O(sqrt(n)) or anything like that.  Experimentation in the normal
> will not discover something like that.  You have to actually
> understand what's going on.  See for example:


Yes, that is a very good point, and I suppose if a hostile user wanted to
deliberately construct a data set that showed off your algorithm to its
worst behaviour, they might do so. But if you are unlikely to discover
this worst case behaviour by experimentation, you are equally unlikely to
discover it in day to day usage. Most algorithms have "worst case"
behaviour significantly slower than their best case or average case, and
are still perfectly useful.


-- 
Steven.



From notrealaddress at all.com  Tue Oct 11 05:26:58 2005
From: notrealaddress at all.com (Chris Dewin)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:26:58 +0900
Subject: Learning Python
References: <mailman.1849.1128964843.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.11.09.26.57.24978@all.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:20:35 +0000, dannypatterso wrote:

[snip]

>> I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know
>> procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and
>> polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as
>> I've written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a
>> primer in OO programming).

There was an excellent such primer on devshed, by Icarus, but they appear
to have taken it down.

I saved a copy of it to my HD. Would there be anything morally, or legally
wrong with me uploading it to my site?

-- 
www.wintergreen.in



From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 16:14:58 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:14:58 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<86fyqzzskt.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<sP%4f.1958$dO2.1708@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86y84rxryr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<2R75f.2005$dO2.1121@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<86mzl6yfko.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<nJb5f.3392$q%.714@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<861x2iy4vs.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <6Jc5f.4734$Zv5.2558@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>


"Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
news:861x2iy4vs.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
> One alternative, as I've said, is to write to the standards, and then
> work around bugs in the popular browsers. If the public whim changes
> which browser is most popular -

I am not holding my breath.

> it only has minimal impact on
> you. Should you decide to move into a different market, your existing
> development process works with only minor changes.




From Sk8xHAnDiCApx69 at wmconnect.com  Fri Oct 14 23:32:24 2005
From: Sk8xHAnDiCApx69 at wmconnect.com (Sk8xHAnDiCApx69 at wmconnect.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:32:24 EDT
Subject: SAFE CYBER SEX LESSONS
Message-ID: <65.4fd3f511.3081d248@wmconnect.com>

hi there imhappily married and me and my wife are looking to cyber
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From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 03:19:29 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:19:29 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
Message-ID: <41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:33:13 GMT, Rich Teer <rich.teer at rite-group.com>
wrote or quoted :

>WHat the hell has that got to do with HTML email?  Sending photos
>is an example of what attachments are for.

Normally you send photos to grandma with captions under each photo.
That is far more convenient for the technopeasant receiver than
dealing with multiple attachments.

People keep thinking of email as a techie preserve.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 12 18:00:04 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:00:04 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk> <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.40.32.740000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<0trik1ldrtvuhsdvoai4a7h34q7la1pehl@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.22.58.40.603766@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <qn1rk1tjulh5i6ncith560llv4sjf44usa@4ax.com>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:58:42 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :

>Sheesh Roedy, to listen to you go anyone would think that human
>communication was impossible before HTML email was invented.

People got along fine wearing untanned moosehides too.  I don't see
any advantage in wearing a hair shirt.  That is an unnatural way to
talk.

I know hundreds of people who would have not the tiniest clue what
that email meant.  You are indeed fortunate to have landed such a
wife.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 19:47:26 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:47:26 -0700
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.19.23.23.34.109772@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<11ld9qtgvead8d0@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.19.23.23.34.109772@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <dj6luf$8hr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:06:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>>>Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?
>>
>>Python doesn't have variables.
>>
>>Python has objects of various types.  You can bind 0 or more
>>names an object.
> 
> I frequently use "variable" as a synonym for "name" when talking about
> Python code. Do people think I am wrong to do so?

It depends on context and audience. If you're talking about Python code
with other relatively experienced Pythonistas, no I don't think it's
wrong. When you're talking about Python versus other languages where
"variable" corresponds with "a possibly typed memory location", or
you're talking with someone who is coming from such a language, then
it's probably best to talk about names and objects. Such pedantry is
useful in the latter cases but not so much in the former.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From marcus.ekelund at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 05:15:30 2005
From: marcus.ekelund at gmail.com (Marcus Ekelund)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 02:15:30 -0700
Subject: Looping Problem (Generating files - only the last record
	generates a file)
In-Reply-To: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130316544.381673.209190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130318129.981649.312710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

vasilijepetkovic at yahoo.com wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I have a problem with the program that should generate x number of txt
> files (x is the number of records in the file datafile.txt).
>
> Once I execute the program (see below) only one file (instead of x
> files) is created. The file created is based on the last record in
> datafile.txt.
>
> The program is as follows:
> ====================================
> #!  python
>
> HEADER = "This page displays longitude-latitude information"
> SUBHEADER = "City"
>
> for line in open("datafile.txt"):
>
>
>     town, latlong = line.split('\t')
>
> f = open(town + ".txt", "w+")
>
> f.write(HEADER + "\n")
> f.write(SUBHEADER + ": " + town + "\n")
> f.write("LAT/LONG" + ": " + latlong + "\n")
> f.close()
>
>
> # end
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
> The datafile.txt is as follows (tab separated columns):
> ====================================
>
> NYC	1111-2222
> Lima	3333-4444
> Rome	5555-6666
>
> ====================================
>
> Once executed, the program will create a single file (named Rome.txt)
> and it would not create files NYC.txt and Lima.txt as I would expect it
> to do.
>
> I'd appreciate if you can pinpoint my error.

Since the lines that handle writing to the file aren't indented as far
as the line that splits the data, they are not part of the loop. They
are only executed  once after the loop has completed, with town and
latlong set to the values they got at the last iteration of the loop.

It should look more like this:

for line in open("datafile.txt"):
    town, latlong = line.split('\t')

    f = open(town + ".txt", "w+")
    f.write(HEADER + "\n")
    f.write(SUBHEADER + ": " + town + "\n")
    f.write("LAT/LONG" + ": " + latlong + "\n")
    f.close()



From larry.bates at websafe.com  Thu Oct  6 09:20:12 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:20:12 -0500
Subject: Copy files to Linux server through ssh tunnel
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1591.1128584111.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1591.1128584111.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4345248C.6050308@websafe.com>

You might want to install copy of Cygwin on your Windows
box.  Then you can use scp or maybe rsync over ssh
to do the copying.  Works great for me.

-Larry Bates

durumdara at mailpont.hu wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> I have some backup files on a server farm.
> I want to store these local backup files on a backup file server for
> "safety's snake".
> 
> These files are compressed zip files with 12 character length password.
> But my system admin asked me, how can I improve the safety of the copy
> operation, and the storing (now I use Samba share to store these files. I
> map the SMB share on the client, copy these files, and unmap SMB).
> 
> Then I thinking to ssh protocol to improve protection.
> 
> The backup script is a py script. I see that Winscp can copy files through
> ssh tunnel. Can I do it too ?
> How ? How to I do it in pythonic way ?
> 
> Please help me with some examples or urls or other infos !
> 
> Thanks * 1000:
> dd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------
> 1 Gbyte Ingyenes E-Mail T?rhely a MailPont-t?l
> http://www.mailpont.hu/
> 



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 11:17:35 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:17:35 +0100
Subject: Compile C program -> .pyc file
In-Reply-To: <1129905417.451369.114840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129905417.451369.114840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djb0qa$hvl$2@sea.gmane.org>

Ernesto wrote:
> Is there a way to compile a C program into a .pyc file that has the
> same behavior as the compiled C program?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
Here's a start:

http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2003q1/000198.html

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From jason at pengale.com  Sat Oct 15 00:58:06 2005
From: jason at pengale.com (Jason Stitt)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:58:06 -0500
Subject: Problem splitting a string 
In-Reply-To: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051015045208.28476.qmail@web35811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B36C1094-3479-4881-B8D1-CF369D941D5A@pengale.com>

On Oct 14, 2005, at 11:52 PM, Anthony Liu wrote:

> I have this simple string:
>
> mystr = 'this_NP is_VL funny_JJ'
>
> I want to split it and give me a list as
>
> ['this', 'NP', 'is', 'VL', 'funny', 'JJ']
>
> 1. I tried mystr.split('_| '), but this gave me:
>
> ['this_NP is_VL funny_JJ']

Try re.split, as in:

import re
re.split('_| ', mystr)

-Jason
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From heel_spain_scarlet at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 20:25:44 2005
From: heel_spain_scarlet at yahoo.com (heel_spain_scarlet at yahoo.com)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 17:25:44 -0700
Subject: Form Filling in XML
Message-ID: <1128990344.387800.174420@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

if i have the following chunck of code how can I look at the Text Nodes
of Fillin and compare them with the Element Nodes of Form and if they
are equal put the Text Node of Fillin into the Text Node of Form

ie)<Monday>=Monday so put maandag it between <li> and </li>
so <li>maantag</li>

thanks for the insight

import xml.dom.minidom

form = """
<html>
<head> <title> My Sample Web Page </title> </head>
<body bgcolor="white">
<p>
What are the weekdays?
<ol>
<li>Monday</li>
<li>Tuesday</li>
<li>Wednesday</li>
<li>Thursday</li>
<li>Friday</li>
</ol>
</p>
</body>
</html>
"""

fillin = """
<dutchdays><Monday>maandag</Monday><Tuesday>dinsdag</Tuesday>
<Wednesday>woensdag</Wednesday><Thursday>donderdag</Thursday>
<Friday>vrijdag</Friday><Saturday>zaterdag</Saturday>
<Sunday>zondag</Sunday>
</dutchdays>
"""

For = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(form)  # parse some XML into a DOM
object
Fill = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(fillin)  # parse some XML into a DOM
object

def xmlForm(formstr=None, fillinstr=None):



From xah at xahlee.org  Tue Oct 18 21:30:49 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 18:30:49 -0700
Subject: Python Doc Error: os.makedirs
Message-ID: <1129685449.372717.56900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Python doc problem:

http://python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/os-file-dir.html

makedirs(  	path[, mode])
    Recursive directory creation function. Like mkdir(), but makes all
intermediate-level directories needed to contain the leaf directory.
Throws an error exception if the leaf directory already exists or
cannot be created. The default mode is 0777 (octal). This function does
not properly handle UNC paths (only relevant on Windows systems;
Universal Naming Convention paths are those that use the `\\host\path'
syntax). New in version 1.5.2.


The ?Throws an error exception? should be ?Throws an OSError
exception?.

--------

i think the function shouldn't complain if dir already exists. How is a
programer to distinguish if the dir already exists, or if there's a
problem creating the dir?


 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From mlist at fastwebnet.it  Tue Oct 18 08:16:45 2005
From: mlist at fastwebnet.it (billie)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:16:45 +0200
Subject: popen4
References: <Fnz4f.39703$133.25538@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
	<wzslv0ftoj.fsf@ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <JI55f.42727$133.9526@tornado.fastwebnet.it>


Piet van Oostrum wrote:
> I think you need something like pyexpect for this.

PyExpect seems to be no more mantained.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 15 16:11:40 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:11:40 +0200
Subject: how to improve simple python shell script (to compile list
	offiles)
References: <oe5rummb.fsf@blue.sea.net> <diqpng$k1o$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<br1qu3wn.fsf@blue.sea.net>
Message-ID: <dirnpt$1m7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jari Aalto wrote:

> Thanks, but that will not work. The files are gathered from discrete
> places

really?  so what is that "find" command doing in your code ?

    compile $(find path/to -type f -name "*.py")

seems to me as if

    python -mcompileall path/to

would do exactly what your script does...

(if you really think that find does something that compileall or os.walk
cannot do, you can fix your script by fixing the identation.  the quickest
way to do that is to insert an if-statement:

    ...
    function compile ()
    {
        python -c '
if 1: # python code has to start in column 0
        import os, sys, py_compile
        i = 0
    ...

)

</F>





From scott.daniels at acm.org  Sat Oct 15 09:20:03 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:20:03 -0700
Subject: Help with creating a dict from list and range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2099.1129342011.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <910885da0510140626p2f395ae6rbdf69b62cb55a2@mail.gmail.com>	<diojcm$vth$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2099.1129342011.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43510186$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

James Stroud wrote:
> On Friday 14 October 2005 08:37, Steve Holden wrote:
>> >>> dct = dict((x[1], x[0]) for x in enumerate(description))

To make the code a breath more obvious:
>>> dct = dict((name, seq) for seq, name in enumerate(description))
has the same results.

>> >>> dct
>>
>>{'second': 1, 'third': 2, 'first': 0}
>>


-- 
-Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From alainpoint at yahoo.fr  Fri Oct  7 09:32:32 2005
From: alainpoint at yahoo.fr (alainpoint at yahoo.fr)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:32:32 -0700
Subject: Python interpreter bug
References: <1128686833.994339.295780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128691014.275838.84750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128691952.265393.168870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

There is definitely a bug.
Maybe the follownig snippet is more clear:
class OBJ:
	def __init__(self,identifier):
		self.id=identifier
		self.allocated=0
	#def __cmp__(self,other):
	#	return cmp(other.allocated,self.allocated)
mylist=[OBJ(i) for i in range(10)]
excluded=[obj for obj in mylist if obj.id in [2,4,6,8]]
exclusion_list_by_id=[2,4,6,8]
print 'exclusion list by id=',exclusion_list_by_id
for obj in mylist:
	print 'current obj=',obj.id,
	if obj in excluded:
		print ' ---> THIS OBJECT IS EXCLUDED'
		assert obj.id in exclusion_list_by_id
		continue
	print

If you uncomment the two lines, the assert will be erroneously
triggered.
Alain



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct  5 11:01:43 2005
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:01:43 -0400
Subject: How to create temp file in memory???
In-Reply-To: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
References: <di0pb2$1m4$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <4343EAD7.9050008@bellsouth.net>

Wenhua Zhao wrote:

>A.T.T
>
>Thanks a lot.
>  
>
If you could elaborate a bit more, it might be helpful.  I'm guessing 
you want something like StringIO or cStringIO.


- jmj


From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Fri Oct 14 13:02:27 2005
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:02:27 GMT
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <20051014170644.1803.75237.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>

Mentre io pensavo ad una intro simpatica "Cousin Stanley" scriveva:

>> XPN (X Python Newsreader) is a multi-platform newsreader 
>> with Unicode support. 
>> ....
>> ....
>
> Cousin Nemesis ....
>   Are the new xpn 5.5 config & data files compatible
>   with the older xpn 5.0 files ?

I'm not 100% sure but I think that they could work. The only thing is
changed is the outgoing articles format, so if you have article in the
oubox delete them

>   Can I install the newer xpn version
>   and move the older data files into it
>   without reconfiguring & reloading data files ? 
>  
>       o config.txt
>       o server_logs.dat
>       o dats 
>       o groups_info
>       o groups_list

It should work, anyway just make a copy of these files to be sure not to
lose them.

-- 
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
 
 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct 15 16:55:46 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:55:46 +0200
Subject: Some set operators
References: <1129408019.100885.323870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4hwtl.np9wjhchw3duN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

<bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote:

> Sometimes I suggest to add things to the language (like adding some set
> methods to dicts), but I've seen that I tend to forget the meaning of
> six set/frozenset operators:
> 
> s & t  s &= t
> s | t  s |= t
> s ^ t  s ^= t
> 
> My suggestion is to remove them, and keep them only as explicit
> non-operator versions (.symmetric_difference(), .update(),
> .intersection_update(), etc). But maybe now it's too much late to
> remove them... Maybe someone gentle can explain me the advantage of
> having/keeping them.

Helen:~ alex$ python2.4 -mtimeit -s's1=s2=set()' 's1&s2'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.929 usec per loop

Helen:~ alex$ python2.4 -mtimeit -s's1=s2=set()' 's1.intersection(s2)'
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.28 usec per loop

Besides avoiding the need for a name look-up, and thus extracting a tiny
speed-up of about 0.35 microseconds or so, I can't think of advantages
for the infix operator form (but then, I can't think of any advantages
for type *int* having the same operators, with bitwise-logic semantics,
rather than placing them only in some library module).

I still vaguely hope that in 3.0, where backwards incompatibilities can
be introduced, Python may shed some rarely used operators such as these
(for all types, of course).  As long as the operators are there for
ints, it makes sense to have them apply to sets as well, of course.


Alex


From cs at totallybogus.com.invalid  Fri Oct 14 15:06:54 2005
From: cs at totallybogus.com.invalid (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:06:54 -0500
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.5.5 released
References: <20051013194207.1700.5269.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
	<1129300207_2667@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<20051014170644.1803.75237.XPN@orion.homeinvalid>
Message-ID: <1129316814_3173@spool6-east.superfeed.net>


>> Can I install the newer xpn version
>> and move the older data files into it
>> without reconfiguring & reloading data files ? 
  
Cousin Nemesis .... 

  This worked OK with no problems
  and I'm posting this reply via xpn-0.5.5 .... 

  I copied the following from the older xpn-0.5.0 version
  to the newer xpn-0.5.5 version ....

    dirs .... 

      o dats
      o groups_info
      o outbox

    files .... 

      o custom_headers.txt
      o groups_list
      o server_logs.dat

  No initial configuration, downloading newsrc file,
  or re-subscribing to newsgroups was required 
  and all of my previously kept & watched messages
  seem to be in place .... 

  Thanks for the update ....


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


From codecraig at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:00:25 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (Java and Swing)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:00:25 -0700
Subject: Wrapper function
In-Reply-To: <3r2c91FhamghU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1129052312.444144.142950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3r2c91FhamghU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1129053625.591216.116340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Diez, yes you were right!  But I have other problems now.

I now have...

#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include "Python.h"

int doStuff(const char *input, const char *d) {...}

static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
        int result;
        char *input = 0;
        char *d = 0;
        int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &input, &d);
        if (!ok) return 0;

        result = doStuff(input, d);

        return PyBuildValue("i", result);
}

static PyMethodDef myMethods[] =
{
	{"PyDoStuff", wrap_doStuff, METH_VARARGS, "some documentation"},
	{NULL, NULL}
};

extern PyMODINIT_FUNC initMyDLL(void)
{
    Py_InitModule4(
        "MyDLL", myMethods, "my doStuff function", NULL,
PYTHON_API_VERSION
        );

}

When I compile, I get two warnings..which are ok.  Then when I build my
DLL I get..

Linking...
   Creating library Release/MyDLL.lib and object Release/MyDLL.exp
test.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _PyBuildValue
Release/MyDLL.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
Error executing link.exe.

MyDLL.dll - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)

..Any ideas?

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *, PyObject *args) {
>                                   ^^^^^
> I guess you need a parameter name here....
> 
> 
> Diez



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 31 19:39:30 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:39:30 +0000
Subject: Asyncore Loop Question
In-Reply-To: <f7d768310510311209o1021eb1dq8c28a9a70af4e260@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7d768310510310906p682b068du189090711fdc623b@mail.gmail.com>	<dk5ra6$v6s$2@sea.gmane.org>
	<f7d768310510311209o1021eb1dq8c28a9a70af4e260@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dk6dg2$l08$1@sea.gmane.org>

John W wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
>>John W wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>I have a gui application where I am trying to use the asyncore module to
>>>gather data from other computers. I am able to connect, but I am getting
>>>constant handle_write_event method calls into my application. It is
>>>obviously slowing down the gui processing significantly.
>>>
>>>My understanding is that the handle_write_event and handle_read_event
>>
>>are
>>
>>>both edge notifications and I should just get the method call
>>
>>essentially
>>
>>>just once.
>>>
>>>I think the problem is how I have my loop() call configured. All I am
>>
>>trying
>>
>>>to do with the code below is to open the socket (that works) and then
>>>receive a single handle_write_event method call. Instead, I am getting
>>>constantly barraged with them.
>>>
>>>I have tried several different types of the loop() call (using poll,
>>>timeout...) but with no luck. If anyone can explain what I should be
>>
>>doing
>>
>>>to get a single handle_write_event call until I actually write something
>>
>>to
>>
>>>the socket (which my code is not presently doing yet), I would
>>
>>appreciate
>>
>>>Below is some code showing what I am doing:
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>>class Connection(asyncore.dispatcher):
>>>def __init__ (self, server_name, port_num ):
>>>self.message_queue = []
>>>
>>>asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
>>>self.create_socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM )
>>>self.connect(( server_name, port_num ))
>>>
>>>
>>>def handle_read_event( self ):
>>>print "handle_read_event received"
>>>
>>>
>>>def handle_write_event( self ):
>>>print "Asking for a write"
>>>
>>>if len( self.message_queue ) > 0:
>>># Pop the first message off the queue
>>>self.send_next_message()
>>>
>>>
>>>class TestApp:
>>>def __init__( self, server_name, port_number ):
>>>
>>>self.nomad = Connection( server_name, port_number )
>>>asyncore.loop()
>>>
>>>
>>>Output ends up being a constant stream of:
>>>Asking for a write
>>>Asking for a write
>>>Asking for a write
>>>Asking for a write
>>>Asking for a write
>>>....
>>>...
>>>...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Normally if a socket channel asks for a write and you have no data you
>>should respond by removing it from the list of write-enabled channels
>>for the asyncore loop until you *do* have some data for it. Otherwise
>>every time the loop scans the channels expecting notification it will
>>tell you again that you can write to that channel.
>>

> 
> Steve,
> 
> Ar you saying that I should close the connection until I have data to write?
> Or should I be using the readable and writable methods to turn it off?
> 
> Thanks for your help, unfortunatly, I have struggled with the documentation
> and getting a clear understanding of everything. This is my first socket
> program as well.
> 
I was actually mis-remembering my asyncore documentation, which is a 
little sad given that I wrote it :-)

What you need is to implement a writable() method. Suppose your output 
generation creates a buffer is self.buffer, a suitable implementation 
would look like this:

     def writable(self):
         return (len(self.buffer) > 0)

As I wrote in the documentation:

"""
writable( )

Called each time around the asynchronous loop to determine whether a 
channel's socket should be added to the list on which write events can 
occur. The default method simply returns True, indicating that by 
default, all channels will be interested in write events.
"""

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de  Tue Oct 11 13:46:05 2005
From: uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Daniel_Sch=FCle?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:46:05 +0200
Subject: Learning Python
In-Reply-To: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <digtnr$d59$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Paul DiRezze wrote:
> I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at 
> learning how to program in Python.  Here's a list of the places I've 
> bookmarked:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/ and more specifically
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
> http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
> http://www.python.org/topics/
> 
> I'm looking for additional resources (links, names of books, 
> whatever...) that you think may help me out.
> 
> I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know 
> procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and 
> polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as I've 
> written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a primer in 
> OO programming).
> 
> Any ideas?

just play a little with interactive python interpreter
this is how I made my first steps

hth



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 12 10:40:59 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:40:59 +0100
Subject: can we save print msg into a file when script running ?
In-Reply-To: <1129126067.252195.315080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129079641.137785.320000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>	<diidbt$7e$1@news.tsua.net>
	<1129126067.252195.315080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dij79u$u12$1@sea.gmane.org>

black wrote:
> quote:
> =======================
> script.py >> script.log 2>&1
> =======================
> 
> what does 2>&1 mean pls ?
> 
It's Unix shell-speak for "send the standard error stream to the same 
place as the standard output". Probably a syntax error on Windows ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From toufeeqh at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 03:44:26 2005
From: toufeeqh at gmail.com (Toufeeq Hussain)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:14:26 +0530
Subject: Help needed in OOP-Python
In-Reply-To: <dhvvd0$5dh$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c293dd340510042234s74a4db47x85bdd5658a1ad803@mail.gmail.com>
	<dhvpto$o0q$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c293dd340510042323o14db7dcdn43b7f21c376b2e48@mail.gmail.com>
	<dhvvd0$5dh$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c293dd340510050044t35e86d09h5d7a3a3c344d00f3@mail.gmail.com>

Fredrik,

sigh!
I see the problem you mention and I agree.
Should have posted the orginal code without edits. :(
Anyway I'll try to fill in whereever required.

On 10/5/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>
>
> $ python test.py
> condition satisfied
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "test.py", line 4, in ?
> Test_Case.Option1_constraint()
> File "module3.py", line 11, in Option1_constraint
> self.FOO_warning.Fire()
> AttributeError: Option1_Rule1 instance has no attribute 'FOO_warning'
>
> FOO_warning? there's no FOO_warning anywhere in the code.


FOO_warning is "Option1_warning" from Module3.

And, in Module1 comment out the line:
"common_subs.write_to_out_file( 'FOO_OUT',self.Warn_text)"

:::
>
> so, after four attempts, I've found four problems, three of which was
> present
> in your posted code, but I still haven't seen the problem you reported:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "test_case.py", line 7, in ?
> TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()
> File "constraint.py", line 13, in __init__
> declaration.Option1.__init__(self)
> TypeError: __init__() takes no arguments (1 given)


But the script when given as individual commands works fine in IDLE.
While executing the script it throws that error. :(

which, in itself, looks like you've forgotten the self argument in some init
> method somewhere (but the code you posted doesn't have that problem).


Yes,I've doubled checked this.

if you want to post code, 1) try to reduce the problem to as little code as
> you
> possibly can, and 2) make sure that the code you post really has the
> problem
> you're seeing... (i.e. run it at least once before you post it)


All points noted and will follow the same.
Thanks and my sincere apologies.

-toufeeq
--
Get Firefox:http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
The fastest, safest and best Browser !!
-------------- next part --------------
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From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 20:54:51 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 22 Oct 2005 17:54:51 -0700
Subject: Question about inheritance...
In-Reply-To: <_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <1130017209.078943.119990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<_My6f.1423$Zd.1063@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1130028891.235502.236320@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Well here is a rough sketch of my code...
This is giving my two problems.

1) TypeError: super() argument 1 must be type, not classobj
2) I want to be sure the the draw code calls the inherited classes
outline and not its own...

class Shape:
	def __init__(self):
		pass
	def render(self):
		print self.__class___
		self.outline()
	def outline(self):
		pass

class Rect(Shape):
	def __init__(self):
		super(self.__class__, self).__init__()
	def render(self):
		super(self.__class__, self).draw()
	def outline(self):
		print 'outline' + self.__class__



From rrr at ronadam.com  Fri Oct 28 10:55:33 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:55:33 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
In-Reply-To: <slrndm3p71.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndm3p71.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <FZq8f.214897$p_1.49124@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-26, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
> 
>>Adding complexity to cmp may not break code, but it could probably slow 
>>down sorting in general.  So I would think what ever improvements or 
>>alternatives needs to be careful not to slow down existing sorting cases.
> 
> As a result of Bengt's post, I rewrote my test program, this is the
> program now.

...

> These are the results.
> 
> <class '__main__.cla'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 10.061425 secs
> <class '__main__.clb'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long,  9.544035 secs
> <class '__main__.clc'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 10.450864 secs
> <class '__main__.cld'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 15.566061 secs
> <class '__main__.cle'>: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 15.776443 secs
> 
> Results on a longer sequence were:
> 
> <class '__main__.cla'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 146.722443 secs
> <class '__main__.clb'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 139.480863 secs
> <class '__main__.clc'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 152.623424 secs
> <class '__main__.cld'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 224.630926 secs
> <class '__main__.cle'>: 1000 repeats, 10000 long, 228.663825 secs
> 
> The most interesting result of this test is the difference between
> cld and cle. IMO this difference is an indication of the cost
> that my idea would have on sorting, should it be implemented.
> That would be around 2%. I think that is bearable. Especially
> since this were very simple routines. The moment the comparison
> calculation become heavier, the relative contribution of the
> try: except will diminuish.


class cle:
   def __init__(self, i):
     self.value = int(i)

   def __comp__(self, other):
     return self.value - other.value

   def __lt__(self, other):
     try:
       return self.__comp__(other) < 0
     except UnequalValues:
       return False


This would only work with numeric types. I believe that cmp is closer to 
the following.

     return ( self.value < other.value and -1
              or self.value > self.value and 1
              or 0 )

I don't think it effects the speed a great deal however.


> If you are concerned about sorting times, I think you should
> be more concerned about Guido's idea of doing away with __cmp__.
> Sure __lt__ is faster. But in a number of cases writing __cmp__
> is of the same complexity as writing __lt__. So if you then
> need a __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__ and __ge__ it
> would be a lot easier to write a __cmp__ and have all rich
> comparisons methods call this instead of duplicating the code
> about six times. So you would be more or less forced to write
> your class as class cld or cle. This would have a bigger
> impact on sorting times than my suggestion.

I haven't heard he was removing __cmp__, but I would think the sort or 
sorted functions would just use the available comparisons methods or 
equivalent C code for base types.  So I expect it would only matter if 
you need a custom or modified sort.

Although It is a thought that these cases could be improved by making 
the sort value available to the underlying C sort function.  Something 
on the order of:

     __sortvalue__ == self.value.

Cheers,
    Ron







From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Wed Oct  5 07:11:28 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:11:28 +0200
Subject: Python, Mysql, insert NULL
In-Reply-To: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128509544.189126.51090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4343B4E0.1040902@designaproduct.biz>

Python_it wrote:

>Python 2.4
>MySQL-python.exe-1.2.0.win32-py2.4.zip
>
>How can I insert a NULL value in a table (MySQL-database).
>I can't set a var to NULL? Or is there a other possibility?
>My var must be variable string or NULL.
>Becaus i have a if statement:
>if ....
>  cursor.execute(".................insert NULL ..............")
>if ....
>  cursor.execute(".................insert "string" ..............")
>
>  
>
Use parameters! For example, did you try:

cursor.execute(" insert into tablename(fieldname) values (%s)",[value])

None will be converted to NULL, any other value will be quoted as neccesary.

BTW, you did not write which driver are you using.
Usage of parameters is different for each driver, but it is standardized.
If it is DB API 2.0 compatible, then parametrized queries should work as 
desicribed in PEP 0249:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

Under 'cursor objects' section, look for the '.execute' method.


From waldbie at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 19:46:15 2005
From: waldbie at yahoo.com (Carl Waldbieser)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:46:15 -0400
Subject: Python, COM Servers, and Multi-Threading
Message-ID: <dieugf$qpm$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

I have been considering using Python and the Reportlab library for
generating PDF reports for the back-end of a web based application.  The
application runs most of its background tasks on a dedicated server that is
Windows based (Win2K or Win2k3).  The program that launches the tasks
requires a COM-based interface, so I wrote a Python COM server using Mark
Hammond's PythonCom libraries and import and run the reporlab modules from
there.

I had been reading up on Python and it's handling of the multiple threads,
specifically the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL).  I got to wondering if a
multi-processor machine machine would be able to take advantage of its
extra processing power using this setup.  I am guessing that the GIL is
global with respect to each instance of a running Python interpreter, so if
say 4 interpreters were running, a 4 processor machine would be able to
take advantage of this.  However, I am not quite sure how launching my
reports via COM behaves-- if I launched 4 reports this way, would that be
like launching 4 seperate instances of the Python interpreter, or would it
be just a single instance, and therefore run into the limitations of the
GIL?  If so, can anybody offer suggestions as to a design that would be
better able to take advantage of a multi-processor machine?

Thanks,
Carl Waldbieser



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 17 00:17:03 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:17:03 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns96F1E2B805C88castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <86zmp8zsjk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> Which standards? Again: w3c is not an official standards organization.
> Moreover, Netscape added LiveScript, oh wait, I mean JavaScript, and the
> *cough* blink element. 
>> By contracting with sites to include non-standard IE features to
>> deliberately break NS.
> NS also added features to HTML.

Yup. When NS was the 800 lb gorilla on they acted like MS, and did
whatever they thought would be best for their bottom line, never mind
ethics, legality, morality, the effect it had on their users, their
business partners, or the web as a whole. People bitched about NS back
then. Some of us predicted what would happen when they tangled with
MS, which had - and has - much more experience at this game.

Now that NS is no longer the 800 lb gorilla, they can see the
advantages of interoperability, and try and implement the same
languages that everyone else does. It would be funny if I didn't have
to live with the aftermath.

"Everybody else does it" is not a defense for criminal behavior. On
the off chance you haven't heard, two wrongs do *not* make a right.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jabel at plus.net  Wed Oct 12 11:11:04 2005
From: jabel at plus.net (John Abel)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:11:04 +0100
Subject: Make SimpleXMLRPCServer Require Auth?
In-Reply-To: <434CC1B9.2030005@plus.net>
References: <434CC1B9.2030005@plus.net>
Message-ID: <434D2788.8070601@plus.net>

John Abel wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I implemented a SimpleXMLRPCServer, modified it slightly to restrict 
>clients based on their IP, but I need to take it a stage further, and 
>add user authentication.  I would appreciate any pointers as to how I 
>might go about this, or any packages which already provide this.  I'm 
>guessing that I'll need to make changes to BaseHTTPServer.
>
>Thanks
>
>J
>  
>
Never mind, managed to modify SimpleXMLRPCServer with code from the 
digest examples in Python sandbox.

J


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:44:07 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:44:07 +0200
Subject: Tricky Areas in Python
References: <1130097286.772836.94930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><1h4wbvb.1dblc4317zeuw2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com><435CA1DE.2060101@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<1h4xfdx.azxzrkhr5xukN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <djkr8q$2u6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>> my hard-won ignorance, and admit that I don't see the
>> problem with the property examples:
>>
>> >     class Sic:
>> >         def getFoo(self): ...
>> >         def setFoo(self): ...
>> >         foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
>
> Sorry for skipping the 2nd argument to setFoo, that was accidental in my
> post.  The problem here is: class Sic is "classic" ("legacy",
> "old-style") so property won't really work for it (the setter will NOT
> trigger when you assign to s.foo and s is an instance of Sic).

what's slightly confusing is that the getter works, at least until you attempt
to use the setter:

>>> class Sic:
...     def getFoo(self):
...         print "GET"
...         return "FOO"
...     def setFoo(self, value):
...         print "SET", value
...     foo = property(getFoo, setFoo)
...
>>> sic = Sic()
>>> print sic.foo
GET
FOO
>>> sic.foo = 10
>>> print sic.foo
10

(a "setter isn't part of an new-style object hierarchy" exception would have
been nice, I think...)

</F> 





From crankycoder at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 18:58:08 2005
From: crankycoder at gmail.com (Victor Ng)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:58:08 -0400
Subject: calling a dylib in python on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1130049617.186896.237650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130049617.186896.237650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a8bfd74c0510231558o2a07cbebj208aa4c644d1806a@mail.gmail.com>

You can use Pyrex which will generate a C module for you.

vic

On 22 Oct 2005 23:40:17 -0700, robspychala at gmail.com
<robspychala at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Is there something similar to python's windll for calling DLLs on win32
> but meant for calling dylib's on OS X?
>
> thanks,
>
> r.s.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


--
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."  - Hanlon's Razor


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 15 19:34:51 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:34:51 GMT
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>
	<di5a0b$ag0$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1722.1128716659.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43519190.96520569@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:28:24 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>On Friday 07 October 2005 03:01 am, Steve Holden wrote:
>> OK, so how do you account for the execresence "That will give you a 
>> savings of 20%", which usage is common in America?
>
>In America, anyway, "savings" is a collective abstract noun 
>(like "physics" or "mechanics"), there's no such
>noun as "saving" (that's present participle of "to save"
>only).  How did you expect that sentence to be rendered?
>Why is it an "execresence"?
>
>By the way, dict.org doesn't think "execresence" is a word,
>although I interpret the neologism as meaning something like 
>"execrable utterance":
>
>dict.org said:
>> No definitions found for 'execresence'!
>
Gotta be something to do with .exe ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Fri Oct  7 12:52:22 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 02:52:22 +1000
Subject: Objects with different data views
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.07.16.52.21.660639@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

I'm not sure how to do this, or where to start looking for the right
information, so any advice would be appreciated.

I want to implement a class with two (or more) different ways of looking
at its attributes.

One example of this might be complex numbers, which can be written in
Cartesian form (x+yi) or polar form (r cis theta).

(Yes, I know Python already has complex numbers. That was just an example.)

Another might be 3D vectors, which can be written in Cartesian form
[x, y, z], polar form [r, theta, z] or spherical polar [r, theta, phi]. 

It is important that there are no privileged attributes, e.g. in the
above example, I can set any of x, y, z, r, theta or phi and all the
others will automatically reflect the changes. A concrete, if simple,
example will make it clear. 

Suppose I have a transformation (a,b) <-> (x,y) where:

x = a+b
y = a+2*b

I create an instance spam, and set a and b:

spam.a = 1
spam.b = 2

Now I should be able to read x and y:

print spam.x, spam.y
# prints 3 5

If I set attribute y:

spam.y = 0

a and b automatically change to match:

print spam.a, spam.b
# prints 6, -3


Anyone have any good ideas for how I should implement this?


Thanks,



-- 
Steven.



From kewlcorey04 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 18:11:43 2005
From: kewlcorey04 at yahoo.com (brenden)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 15:11:43 -0700
Subject: NEWBIE
Message-ID: <1130364703.849883.109300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

hey everyone....i'm new to all this programming and all this stuff and
i just wanted to learn how to do it...

does anyone think they can teach me how to work with python?

i've been reading up a lot on it and i've downloaded the program and
all that i'm just not quite following the whole thing...

if you can just post here and i'll get back 2 u



From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 23:04:47 2005
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (SPE - Stani's Python Editor)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 20:04:47 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130592935.839750.322930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h56rdh.1lgzv2op15fcpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1130641487.526899.299360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

> some future Firefox version might perhaps integrate a Python engine

For those who never heard about Firefox 1.9, check the following urls.
It looks very promising:

1) http://wiki.mozilla.org/Roadmap_Scratchpad#Python_for_XUL

Python for XUL

Significant potential contributors in both the Python and XUL
application development communities have long wanted access to Python's
set of libraries and its capabilities as an application development
language. So in addition to JavaScript, which is the default web and
XUL scripting language, we plan to extend the reach of Gecko and XUL to
the Python world.

Mark Hammond's work on PyXPCOM and a language-neutral DOM is well under
way as of October 2005, and we believe that the glue code and bindings
will be slim enough to be part of a default XULRunner or Firefox
distribution when the 1.9 cycle is complete.

(N.B.: Mozilla does not intend to distribute the C-Python runtime with
its applications or frameworks, and application developers who wish to
take advantage of these capabilities will need to provide for this
dependency in their installers or packaging. Stub or streaming
installer capabilities in the Firefox/XULRunner based on Gecko 1.9 will
probably help a great deal to ease the extra download for Python-less
users.)

2) http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/archives/008865.html

Given evolving JS, why Python? Simple: different programming languages,
of different ages, have their strengths, and one of the greatest
strength of any solid language is its community. We want to support
Python as well as JS for XUL scripting in order to engage a large,
creative community of hackers that is mostly disjoint from the
web-standards-savvy XUL hackers who are already engaged with Mozilla
and Firefox.

*
Stani
--
http://pythonide.stani.be
http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html



From lsumnler at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 14:32:59 2005
From: lsumnler at gmail.com (len)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 11:32:59 -0700
Subject: Newbie regular expression ?
Message-ID: <1128450779.107011.5370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I have the following statement and it works fine;

    list1 = glob.glob('*.dat')

however I now have an additional requirement the the string must begin
with
any form of "UNQ,Unq,unq,..."

as an example if I had the following four files in the directory:

unq123abc.dat
xy4223.dat
myfile.dat
UNQxyc123489-24.dat

only unq123abc.dat and UNQxyc123489-24.dat would be selected

I have read through the documentation and I am now sooooo
confussedddddd!!

Len Sumnler



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Oct 18 13:16:00 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:16:00 +0200
Subject: PEP: Adding decorators for everything
In-Reply-To: <1129612612.320897.151650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129612612.320897.151650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rkouiFjm4q4U1@uni-berlin.de>

> @GuardedClass
> class Foo:

The functionality can be done using a meta-class, in a similarily 
declarative way.

>     @Transient
>     a = 'a transient field, ignored when serializing'
> 
>     @Const
>     PI = 22.0 / 7
> 
>     @TypeSafe(int)
>     count = 10

These are tricky, as the implicitly change the nature of the values - 
they become properties. And the decorator protocol has to change, as the 
passed value is obviously not a callable, but a random value. So in the 
end, you could simply do something like this:


@Const(3.24)
def PI(self):
    pass

with Const basically ignoring its callable-argument and simply returning 
a get-only-property. I have to admit that I was tempted to use such a 
thingy just the other day. But it is not exactly nice, and using

PI = Const(3.14) as you suggested is even more pleasing.

Additionally, the first @Transient-decorator can't be done that way, as 
the decorator protocol doesn't know about the _name_ a thing is bound to 
later. And you'd need that to actually set up e.g. __getstate__ operate 
properly.

And it doesn't mkae much sense anyway, as "a" is a class variable, not a 
instance variable.

So - I'm not very much in favour of these enhancements.


> It would also be better if multiple decorators could be written on the
> same line. E.g.:
> @A @B(x, y) @C
> def foo(): ...

That one I like.

Diez


From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 12 16:26:30 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:26:30 GMT
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <434C8FE2.2090505@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net><200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>	<4349A55C.90203@open-networks.net>	<did1ma$4q2$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1925.1129073625.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434C8FE2.2090505@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Wje3f.142722$xl6.41932@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Timothy Smith wrote:
> 
>>>> i have NO idea what in there could be making it have such a strange
>>>> error. it just says "error" when you try run it. there nothing terribly
>>>> strange being done.
> 
> 
>> i am still coming across this error it's driving me nuts. usually i 
>> can find what's wrong, but it is becoming an increasingly annoying 
>> problem. i also get the same problem on a windows machine with the 
>> same installed. this time it's nothing to do with the decimal module. 
>> help!
> 
> 
> Go back to first principles. Can you grab all the modules being used, 
> and search them for the string "error"? Ignore any hits which are in a 
> comment. One of the others is almost certainly responsible.
> 
> You can test that by changing the string to "this is a PITA" and see if 
> your mysterious error message changes or not.

Maybe there's a way he can examine the traceback to find it.

I think there's probably a better way, but it may be a start.


####
def seetrace():
     import inspect
     print inspect.trace()
     print ''.join(inspect.trace(5)[0][4])

try:
     try:
         #### suspect code block
         a = 15+'c'
         print 'hello'
         for x in range(10):
             a = x
         ####
     except:
         seetrace()
         raise "my error"    # you never see this

# This is why bare excepts are not a good idea.
except:
     raise "Error: your error"
####

In this example you never see "my error" because the outer try over 
rides it. but the prints's still print and give you information about 
the actual error in this case.


[(<frame object at 0x009A5628>, 'gen.py', 17, '?', ["        a = 
15+'c'\n"], 0)]
     try:
         #### suspect code block
         a = 15+'c'
         print 'hello'
         for x in range(10):

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "gen.py", line 26, in ?
     raise "your error"
Error: your error


Hope this helps,
    Ron



From news at nportal.net  Tue Oct 25 11:04:26 2005
From: news at nportal.net (News Reader)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:04:26 -0600
Subject: Has anybody used cx_bsdiff?
Message-ID: <435E497A.6050906@nportal.net>

Hello,

I am trying to use cx_bsdiff 
(http://starship.python.net/crew/atuining/cx_bsdiff/index.html) to to 
make a diff and patch some files.  It appears that I can make the diff, 
but when I apply the patch, the result is not the same.

As far as I understand the documentation, I am using this correctly. 
Can anyone help me find what is wrong in the code below?

Thanks.  Please reply to the list.

NR.

=========================================================

import bsdiff, bz2
import cPickle as pickle
from filecmp import dircmp


def diffdir(comparator, basepath=''):
     return [os.path.join(basepath, fname)
             for fname in comparator.diff_files]


def descend(comparator, basepath=''):
     print 'Examining "%s"...' % basepath
     yield diffdir(comparator, basepath)
     for subdir in comparator.subdirs:
         subname = os.path.join(basepath, subdir)
         subcmp = comparator.subdirs[subdir]
         for subresult in descend(subcmp, subname):
             yield subresult


def compare_all(orig_dir, fix_dir):
     patch = {}
     comparator = dircmp(orig_dir, fix_dir, [])
     for diff_list in descend(comparator):
         for diff_file in diff_list:
             orig_fname = os.path.join(orig_dir, diff_file)
             fix_fname = os.path.join(fix_dir, diff_file)
             print 'Making diff of %s...' % diff_file
             orig_data = open(orig_fname, 'rb').read()
             fix_data = open(fix_fname, 'rb').read()
             dl = len(fix_data)
             ctrl, dblock, xblock = bsdiff.Diff(orig_data, fix_data)
             patch[diff_file] = (dl, ctrl, dblock, xblock)
     print 'Done.'
     return patch


def fix_all(tofix_dir, patch):
     for fname in patch:
         orig_fname = os.path.join(tofix_dir, fname)
         print 'Fixing %s...' % orig_fname
         datafile = open(orig_fname, 'rb')
         orig_data = datafile.read()
         datafile.close()
         fix_data = bsdiff.Patch(orig_data, *patch[fname])
         datafile = open('%s-fixed' % orig_fname, 'wb')
         datafile.write(fix_data)
         datafile.close()
         os.remove(orig_fname)
         os.rename('%s-fixed' % orig_fname, orig_fname)


def save(object, filename, protocol=-1):
     compressed = bz2.BZ2File(filename, 'wb')
     compressed.write(pickle.dumps(object, protocol))
     compressed.close()


def load(filename):
     compressed = bz2.BZ2File(filename, 'rb')
     object = pickle.loads(compressed.read())
     compressed.close()
     return object


def make_patch():
     orig_dir = raw_input('Original Directory: ')
     fix_dir = raw_input('Fixed Directory: ')
     savepatch = raw_input('Save result? (y/n): ')
     if savepatch == 'y':
         patchname = raw_input('Patch file name: ')
     else: savepatch = ''
     patch = compare_all(orig_dir, fix_dir)
     if savepatch:
         save(patch, patchname)



From http  Sun Oct  2 15:05:53 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2005 12:05:53 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > Yes, the point is that it's something that you can check for by
> > examining the class in question without having to examine any other
> > classes.
> 
> That's a pretty restrictive convention to follow.

What convention?  It just makes it possible to write code with some
specific invariants if there's a need to do so.

> For instance, I might want an error dialog to be a private variable
> of a class representing a window - after all, I don't want anyone
> else writing to it, or using it in any way. Except, of course, for
> any GUI framework routines I have to pass it to in order to use
> it. This problem crops up for every utility routine in every library
> I might want to use. Opening files by name, concatenatting strings
> (or are we going to have a convention that implicit invocation of
> functions with the operator syntax don't count, and another one that
> you don't overload operators with destructive functions, and so on), etc.

I just don't understand your point here.  Yes, you can do all those
things and leak any variable.  However, if you want to NOT leak some
particular variable, "private" lets you code in a way that lets you
easily confirm that you didn't leak it.

> So it turns out that getting the behavior you desire involves
> following a lot of conventions.

That improves on the current situation.  Right now the behavior is
impossible to obtain in Python no matter how many conventions you
follow, unless you follow them through a whole program of arbitrary
size instead of just in the class that you're trying to protect a
variable in.  And when you do it through that much code, it becomes
extremely hard to confirm by inspection that they're followed.  That's
why we have things like the principle of least privilege.

> File scope isn't good enough for python.
> 
> import madhouse
> madhouse.len = my_len_breaker

Ugh, yeah.  IIRC, rexec dealt with this using a special import hook
that stopped you from importing.  For an unrestricted client, maybe
there would have to be some special import that restores the builtins.

> In other words, by adding private to python, you're making it so that
> bugs involving overwriting a private attribute will involve only the
> owning classes code so long as everyone follows the conventions that
> exist about the use of such variables.

Not everyone, just the author of the class that uses the private
variable.  That's the point.

> > I don't see how pylint could know which instances to flag,
> 
> I was thinking it would flag any use of such a variable where the
> target variable wasn't "self". That may be a stronger constraint than
> you wanted - but that's good, right?

Shrug.  That might be of some limited usefulness, but all it tries to
do is prevent accidents.  And it does nothing about setattr/getattr.


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Mon Oct 17 10:01:58 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:01:58 -0400
Subject: Dynamic generation of doc-strings of dynamically generated classes
References: <dj04bq$5os$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <1129557719.c29494246cc8deda636cbf9c849b7133@teranews>

"Mikael Olofsson" <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I've asked Google, but have not found any useful information there.
>
> Situation: I have a base class, say
>
>  >>> class base(object):
>          ImportantClassAttribute = None
>
> Now, I want to dynamically generate subclasses of base. That's not a
> problem. However, I very much want those subclasses to have individual
> doc-strings. More precicely, I want that important class attribute to be
> reflected in the doc-string. That's the problem. The only way I've
> managed to accomplish that is something like the following.
>
>  >>> ImportantClassAttribute = 7
>  >>> docString = 'The case %s.' % (ImportantClassAttribute,)
>  >>> exec('''class new(base):
>           """%s"""
>           pass ''' % (docString,))
>  >>> new.ImportantClassAttribute = ImportantClassAttribute
>  >>> new.__doc__
> 'The case 7.'
>
> This works as intended. The subclasses do get the doc-strings I want
> them to have, and I can live with this solution. But: This solution does
> not strike me as especially beautiful or readable. My first na?ve
> attempt was instead the following.
>
>  >>> class new(base):
> pass
>
>  >>> new.ImportantClassAttribute = 7
>  >>> new.__doc__ = ('The case %(ImportantClassAttribute)s.'
>        % new.__dict__)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#35>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>      new.__doc__ = ('The case %(ImportantClassAttribute)s.'
> TypeError: attribute '__doc__' of 'type' objects is not writable
>
> This is readable to me, but apparently not the way to go, since I'm not
> allowed to replace the doc-string like this. I've also tried a number of
> other ways, but they all stumble on similar reasons.
>
> Any ideas? Am I stuck with the clumsy exec-solution, or are there other
> ways to dynamically generate doc-strings of classes?

There's nothing specifically about doc-strings, but you can create and customise a whole class
dynamically:

def makeBaseSubclass(impClassAttr):
    return type('new_%s' % impClassAttr,
                     (base,object),
                    {'ImportantClassAttribute': impClassAttr,
                      '__doc__': 'The case %s' % impClassAttr})

>>> new = makeBaseSubclass(7)
>>> new.ImportantClassAttribute
7
>>> new.__doc__
'The case 7'


HTH,
George




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Oct 16 06:16:58 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:16:58 +0200
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
In-Reply-To: <4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <4352289a$0$15038$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> Perhaps string equivalence in keys will be treated like numeric equivalence?
> I.e., a key/name representation is established by the initial key/name binding, but
> values can be retrieved by "equivalent" key/names with different representations
> like unicode vs ascii or latin-1 etc.?

That would require that you know the encoding of a byte string; this
information is not available at run-time.

You could also try all possible encodings to see whether the strings
are equal if you chose the right encoding for each one. This would
be both expensive and unlike numeric equivalence: in numeric 
equivalence, you don't give a sequence of bytes all possible
interpretations to find some interpretation in which they are
equivalent, either.

There is one special case, though: when comparing a byte string
and a Unicode string, the system default encoding (i.e. ASCII)
is assumed. This only really works if the default encoding
really *is* ASCII. Otherwise, equal strings might not hash
equal, in which case you wouldn't find them properly in a
dictionary.

Regards,
Martin


From http  Sun Oct  9 06:29:14 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2005 03:29:14 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<6eihk1tr0ovtkv5d6ik2lfm7p0i90u0tk5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7x8xx3htl1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:
> >I read mail over an ssh connection to a Unix shell.  I have no easy
> >way to read html email with a graphics browser. 
> 
> So the rest of the world should forgo rich communication because of
> your obsolete software?  How could anything every evolve with that
> attitude?

There is nothing obsolete about lynx.  It completely conforms to the
w3 standard.  Anyway, email is a text medium and attempts to "evolve"
it almost always make it worse.


From andrew at voicent.com  Thu Oct 13 17:23:18 2005
From: andrew at voicent.com (andrew at voicent.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 14:23:18 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Python interface for making telephone calls using Voicent
	Gateway
Message-ID: <1129238598.829231.14090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

The Voicent Python Simple Interface class contains the following
functions.

    callText
    callAudio
    callStatus
    callRemove
    callTillConfirm

These functions are used to invoke telephone calls from your Python
program. For example, callText is used to call a specified number and
automatically play your text message using text-to-speech engine.

In order for this class to work, you'll need to have Voicent Gateway
installed somewhere in your network. This class simply sends HTTP
request for telephone calls to the gateway. Voicent has a free edition
for the gateway. You can download it from http://www.voicent.com

More information can be found at:
http://www.voicent.com/devnet/docs/pyapi.htm

Thank you and have fun



From shannonlayland at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 13:28:51 2005
From: shannonlayland at gmail.com (shannonl)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 10:28:51 -0800
Subject: textwidget.tag_bind("name", "<Any-KeyPress>",
	self.donothing) not working
In-Reply-To: <1130358397.324451.125750@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130266889.246361.268610@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130356366.749611.148240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130356709.694069.295350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1130358397.324451.125750@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130783331.517705.179260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your help and the link.  From the link it sounds like no one
is sure how this is supposed to act.  I will dig around in the tcl
forum and see what I can find.



From rune.strand at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 15:15:50 2005
From: rune.strand at gmail.com (Rune Strand)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 12:15:50 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1994.1129198329.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129150883.303899.259570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1994.1129198329.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129230950.305013.302200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I've read a lot of your comments the last years. Your friendliness
always strikes me.



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 12 01:55:22 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:55:22 +0200
Subject: TurboGears /.-ed, >new == True< or >new == "True"<
References: <v7ydnXDyJdoO6dHeRVn-rw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkp9a7.8jl.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Andy Leszczynski enlightened us with:
> should not it be:
>
> 2 def save(self, pagename, data, submit, new):
> 3 hub.begin()
> 4 if new == True:
> 5     page = Page(pagename=pagename, data=data)
> 6 else:
> 7     page = Page.byPagename(pagename)
> 8     page.data = data
>
> instead of:
>
> 4 if new == "True":

No it should not. The values passed to the function are the strings
passed by the GET request, hence all strings. There are methods of
dealing with this - read the rest of the documentation.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Oct 19 03:50:11 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 00:50:11 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
In-Reply-To: <1129701270.792327.168620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129696357.539158.233870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129699998.324180.56530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1129701270.792327.168620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129708210.963305.43270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> it will be added in 2.5 I beleve. At the moment, you can:
>
> predicate and <true expression> or <false expression>

Ah, i see. Here's the full code again:

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
# python

import re, os.path

imgPaths=[u'/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2059m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2062m-s.jpg', u'/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2097m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/t4/oh/DSCN2099m-s.jpg', u'/Users/t/Icons_dir/icon_sum.gif']

# change the image path to the full sized image, if it exists
# that is, if image ends in -s.jpg, find one without the '-s'.

imgPaths2=[]
for myPath in imgPaths:
    p=myPath
    (dirName, fileName) = os.path.split(myPath)
    (fileBaseName, fileExtension)=os.path.splitext(fileName)
    if(re.search(r'-s$',fileBaseName,re.U)):
        p2=os.path.join(dirName,fileBaseName[0:-2]) + fileExtension
        if os.path.exists(p2): p=p2
    imgPaths2.append(p)

imgPaths3 = map( lambda x: os.path.exists(x[1]) and x[1] or x[0],
map(lambda x: (x, re.sub( r"^(.+?)-s(\.[^.]+)$",r"\1\2", x)),
imgPaths))

print imgPaths2 == imgPaths3

------------------

> A few things I don't like about python for FP is that it relies heavily
> on exception which make these one liners not possible in many case.
> ...

yeah i know how it feels. I haven't had much experience with Python
yet... but doing it in Perl gets all twisted. (especially when one
tries to use trees as data structure (nested lists) in Perl)

besides syntactical issues, another thing with doing functional
programing in imperative languages is that they become very inefficent.
Functional languages are optimized by various means of functional
programings styles. Doing them in imperative languages usually comes
with a order of execution penalty because imperative language compilers
are usually dumb.

though, one can't totally blame for Python's lack of ability to do
functional programing. Its language's syntax of using indentations for
blocks by design, pretty much is in odds with functional programing's
sequencing of functions and other ways. (such as generic mechanism for
prefix/postfix syntax, or macros or other transformations and patterns,
or heavy reliance on the free flow of expressions/values)

I don't blame Python that it doesn't cater to functional programing BY
DESIGN. But i do hate the mother fucking fuckheads Pythoners for one
thing that they don't know what functional programing really is, and on
the other hand fucking trumpet their righteousness and lies thru their
teeth of their ignorance. (that Guido guy with his Python 3000 article
on his blog is one example, possibly forgivable in that particular
instance. (http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_3000.html))

(excuse me for lashing out)

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/

> like :
> >>> os.paths.exists(something) and "print it is there" or "file not found"
>
> I am practicing FP in python and it is in general doable with the help
> of itertools and add the needed functions as needed, like scanl/scanl1
> etc.
>
> A few things I don't like about python for FP is that it relies heavily
> on exception which make these one liners not possible in many case.
>
> Example:
>
> a=[]
> a[0] would raise exception
>
> I usually prefer None as a special value which can be handled in normal
> flow(filter out, may be "x is None and something or otherthing"). But
> the liberal use of Exception force you to structure the program either
> in a very odd way(test with hasattr/haskey etc. before use) or needs
> lots of try/except blocks. I am using a python XHTML template Kid which
> relies on one-liner and found it very difficult.
>
> However, if you don't really need one-liner but just FP style to
> shorten the program, it is fine but I just find the try/except block
> quite ugly.
>
> Then there is the side effect of iterators/generators which unless you
> know can burn you badly(especially when you are chaining these objects
> in these multiple map/filter calls), as mentioned in another post.
>



From rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu  Fri Oct  7 11:34:07 2005
From: rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu (rbt)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:34:07 -0400
Subject: socketServer questions
Message-ID: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>

I have written a python socketServer program and I have a few questions
that I hope the group can answer... here is a simple version of the
server:

class tr_handler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
    
    def handle(self):
        
        data = self.rfile.readline(300)
        data = str.strip(data)
        bytes = str(len(data))
   
        public_ip = self.client_address[0]

        serv_date = time.strftime('%Y-%m-%d', time.localtime())
        serv_time = time.strftime('%H:%M:%S', time.localtime())

        # Note that 'data; comes from the client.
        fp = file('/home/rbt/Desktop/tr_report.txt', 'a')
        fp.write(data+"\t"+serv_date+"\t"+serv_time+"\t"+public_ip+"\t"+bytes+"\n")
        fp.close()

if __name__=='__main__':
    server = SocketServer.TCPServer( ('', 55503), tr_handler)
    server.serve_forever()

---------------------------------------

1. Do I need to use threads to handle requests, if so, how would I incorporate them?
The clients are light and fast never sending more than 270 bytes of data and never connecting
for more than 10 seconds at a time. There are currently 500 clients and potentially there could be
a few thousand... how high does the current version scale?

2. What's the proper way to handle server exceptions (server stops, fails to run at boot, etc.)?

3. How do I keep people from tampering with the server? The clients send strings of data to the
server. All the strings start with x and end with y and have z in the middle. Is requiring x at
the front and y at the back and z someplace in the middle enough to keep people out? I'm open to
suggestions.

Thanks!
rbt









From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Oct 10 20:27:06 2005
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:27:06 GMT
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk6glhvgl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.22.53.07.40262@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<jl9r13-mk7.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.10.23.59.32.640775@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:21:55 +0200, Michael Str?der wrote:

> Dan Stromberg wrote:
>> [quoted text muted]
> 
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2945.html
> 
> Ciao, Michael.

OK, thanks for the reference.

I guess I neglected to stress that we're talking about using random
strings of characters, not dictionary words or other weak forms of
user-chosen passwords.

Is there something easily attacked about the original algorithm, if you
use a long, quite random password in combination with a hash algorithm
that hasn't been broken?

If you look over my fallback-reboot package at:
http://dcs.nac.uci.edu/~strombrg/fallback-reboot/ you'll see that there's
a small python script that generates a 32 character hex string for the
passwords.

I suppose I probably should rewrite it to not use whrandom though.

Thanks!




From nephish at xit.net  Fri Oct 21 19:01:18 2005
From: nephish at xit.net (nephish at xit.net)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 16:01:18 -0700
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <11lilpklp9mib0f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129916685.172187.224140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<11lietgq0m60f66@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129927722.835095.191620@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11lilpklp9mib0f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1129935678.372329.107850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

this is great, because the docs on gnuplots website are a bit easier
for me to grasp.
thanks so much for your time on this one. you really have helped me a
lot.
i will not get a change to work on this till monday. so i may have more
questions then. This is sure a point in the right direction.

thanks much.
shawn



From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Fri Oct 28 17:23:56 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 14:23:56 -0700
Subject: ? Pythoncard
In-Reply-To: <1130530479.983395.118810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130530479.983395.118810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130534636.368702.277230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Never mind I figured out my on stupid mistake

Thanks



From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Mon Oct 17 12:35:24 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:35:24 -0400
Subject: List of strings to list of floats ?
References: <4351d29e$0$41148$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<mailman.2125.1129436361.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4353d2a2$0$41138$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

skip at pobox.com wrote:

> 
>     Madhusudan> Is it possible to convert a very long list of strings to a
>     Madhusudan> list of floats in a single statement ?
> 
>     Madhusudan> I have tried float(x) and float(x[:]) but neither work. I
>     Madhusudan> guess I would have to write a loop if there isn't a way.
> 
> Try:
> 
>     >>> los = ["123.0", "2", "1e-6"]
>     >>> map(float, los)
>     [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]
>     >>> [float(s) for s in los]
>     [123.0, 2.0, 9.9999999999999995e-07]
> 
> Skip

Thanks. Now, a slightly more complicated question.

Say I have two lists of floats. And I wish to generate a list of floats that
is a user defined function of the two lists.

I tried :

def rpyth(x,y):
    r=sqrt(pow(x,2.0)+pow(y,2.0))
    return r

r1n=map(rpyth,x2n[1:len(x2n)-1],y2n[1:len(y2n)-1])

And I get an error complaining about floats.


From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Sat Oct 29 09:35:39 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 06:35:39 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130592939.784904.155370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for your replays (both for WMI and AutoIt beta-release)
but I would be satisfied if I had in Linux something similar to
the standard version of AutoIt!
Concerning WMI, a part the fact that it works only under Windows,
from the examples I have seen, IMHO it is much less powerful than
AutoIt.
In Linux you can easily obtain almost the same results by using shell
programming or by emulation of the shell by means of os.system("shell
command string") in Python.
But the problem is that in Linux you can't even send a keystroke to
a running GUI application!
I want to find a solution in Linux, with the help of experts
(if they don't use only Windows...)  for two reasons:
- the reduced availability in Windows of "free" or "open" applications
- the more severe security problems in Windows.
Concerning the second point, you can correctly argue that this is,
at least partly, due to the wider market share of Windows but IMHO
Linux is more robust in this field, and ...at the present times the
situation is like that!
As I want to use automation mainly in Internet, I am worried of
security and I don't want to spend time and money in anti-virus
and firewalls...
I want to give you an idea of possible applications of automation.
Imagine you want to access a big database from a html server which
only allows you to access such data in chunks pressing a "next"
button on an ASP file. It will take several hours to click the button
and then save the new data supplied by the server!
That is a typical task of AutoIt, very easily programmable,
a part that, during the script execution, you are under virus or
other security treat!
Another example of application is to emulate a spider program to make
searches or downloads in Internet. By emulating a user you can bypass
the restrictions imposed by search engines or html servers on
automatic operations (like wget or urlib).
A last example is for protecting the privacy using several
"anonymizers". That can only be possible with a macro language for
automatic connection to the web anonymizers. Also the subsequent
web operations must be carried out (IMHO!) in an automatic manner.
There are of course plenty of possible application of a macro language
and above all it can save me from be obliged to learn C++ (for Qt).
For example, to make a graph you are not obliged to make a program in
C++ or PyQt to draw and possibly print the graph of your data, but you
need only to program the data preparation then send the data to a
drawing application...
Bye.



From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Fri Oct 28 20:26:40 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 17:26:40 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
Message-ID: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

 Hi all,
 when I moved from Windows to Linux I choosed Python as my language of
 reference and as GUI, Qt (not much investigated up to now).
 Till now I didn't regret but one thing:
 Python can't act as a macro language and so you are obliged to revert
 to Windows to use programs like AutoIt, Macro Express or Macro
 Scheduler or even the macro features of Office with VBA.

 Claudio Grondi expressed almost the same ideas in answering to a post:
 > What I can point you to is not Python, but embedding it in Python
 > is a question of executing one line of Python code triggering its
 > execution.
 > I think you will be fascinated by its features and ease of use
 > and how well it is suited to fit into your needs:
 >    http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.php
 > With it you will start to see, that forcing to obey to Windows way
 > of doing things has not only bad sides.

 In answering to him I expressed the idea to use Windows and AutoIt 3
 for automation purposes.
 But then I changed idea... Also if it is already one year that I try
 to find a solution in Linux (mainly with Python or DCOP and KDE),
 I am still confident that there is a solution (in Python we have big
 experts...).
 Instead of merely "batteries included" we have plenty of already made
 applications (from graphics to browsing or editing etc.) that can be
 easily accessed emulating users operations (mainly keystrokes or mouse
 operations)...
 Bye.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 22:38:12 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:38:12 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4ukde.1gc4cgu1a252ggN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<86y84k95c5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h4vl5j.1sg46l1irzgfmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1130154629.382286.33090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4xfpb.1oh4ntjwcvubfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<87acgyly4k.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1h4yalo.tv773719vmtliN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> 
> > forwards a lot to Python 3.0!-).  But -- the "dream" solution would be
> > to work closely with customers from the start, XP-style, so features go
> > into the code in descending order of urgence and importance and it's
> > hardly ever necessary to remove them.
> 
> We do that often with two of our customers here.  After the first changes,
> they asked for more.  And them some other and when it finally ended, the
> project was like we had suggested, but instead of doing this directly, the
> client wanted to waste more money... :-(  Even if we earnt more money, I'd
> rather have the first proposal accepted instead of wasting time working on
> what they called "essential features". 

The customer is part of the team; if any player in the team is not
performing well, the whole team's performance will suffer -- that's
hardly surprising.  You may want to focus more on _teaching_ the
customer to best play his part in the feature-selection game, in the
future... not easy, but important.


> > But if I had do nominate ONE use case for "making code smaller" it would
> > be: "Once, And Only Once" (aka "Don't Repeat Yourself").  Scan your code
> > ceaselessly mercilessly looking for duplications and refactor just as
> > mercilessly when you find them, "abstracting the up" into functions,
> > base classes, etc...
> 
> And I'd second that.  Code can be drastically reduced this way and even
> better: it can be made more generic, more useful and robustness is improved.

I'll second all of your observations on this!-)


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  7 04:45:08 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:45:08 +0100
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1662.1128671430.50
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <di5cia$i40$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
>>In other words, you want Python to be strongly-typed, but sometimes
>>you want to allow a reference to be to any object whatsoever. In which
>>case you can't possibly do any sensible type-checking on it, so this
>>new Python+ or whatever you want to call it will suffer from the same
>>shortcomings that C++ and java do, which is to say type checking can't
>>possibly do anything useful when the acceptable type of a reference is
>>specified as ANY.
> 
> 
> Let's see if I understand what you're saying:
> 
>     C and Java: you get useful type checking except when you declare
>     a reference as type ANY.  This is a shortcoming compared to:
> 
>     Python: where you get no useful type checking at all.
> 
> That is not very convincing logic.

As we say in Yorkshire, "There's none as thick as them that wants to 
be". Let's try to get this in context.

Antoon:
> Suppose we have a typesystem which has the type ANY, which would mean
> such an object could be any type. You could then have homogenous lists
> in the sense that all elements should be of the same declared type and
> at the same time mix all kind of type in a particular list, just
> as python does.

Diez:
> The you have JAVA Object or C void*. Which cause all kinds of runtime 
> troubles.... because they essentially circumvene the typechecking!

Antoon:
> Why do you call this a JAVA Object or C void*? Why don't you call
> it a PYTHON object. It is this kind of reaction that IMO tells most
> opponents can't think outside the typesystems they have already
> seen and project the problems with those type systems on what
> would happen with python should it acquire a type system.

Me:
> Diez' intention seemed fairly clear 
> to me: he is pointing out that strongly-typed systems invariably fall 
> back on generic declarations when they want to allow objects of any type 
> (which, it seems to me, is what you were proposing as well).

You:
>     C and Java: you get useful type checking except when you declare
>     a reference as type ANY.  This is a shortcoming compared to:
> 
>     Python: where you get no useful type checking at all.
> 
The points that have repeatedly been made are:

1. That even the strict typings required by languages like Java and C++ 
actually end up getting in the way when the pragmatic requirements of 
real-world problems have to be taken into account.

2. That the benefits of declarations are overstated by many of their 
proponents.

3. That Python as it is today allows the dynamic creation of names, 
which are therefore inherently not available for declaration.

On existing evidence it's extremely unlikely that this post will end the 
thread, but I certainly wish *something* would. Unfortunately I seem to 
have become part of the problem in that respect :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From gene.tani at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 16:37:40 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 13:37:40 -0700
Subject: Learning Python
In-Reply-To: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
References: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1128976660.264371.186100@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

This should be good for a couple weeks

http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_101/python_101.html
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_201/python_201.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/py4fun/
http://the.taoofmac.com/space/Python/Grimoire
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/

http://rgruet.free.fr/#QuickRef

Paul DiRezze wrote:
> I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at
> learning how to program in Python.  Here's a list of the places I've
> bookmarked:
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/ and more specifically
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
> http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
> http://www.python.org/topics/
>
> I'm looking for additional resources (links, names of books,
> whatever...) that you think may help me out.
>
> I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know
> procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and
> polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as I've
> written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a primer in
> OO programming).
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> paul



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 05:24:51 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:24:51 +0200
Subject: "import socket" error
References: <1128849129.254683.155420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dianl6$nke$1@sea.gmane.org>

akbarhome at gmail.com wrote:

> I am following this tutorial
>
https://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/iwm/web/preLogin.do?source=dw-linux-pysocks&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR&ca=dgr-lnxw07PythonSockets
> ( free reg. req. )
>
> The article told me to do this:
>
> [camus]$ python
> Python 2.4 (#1, Feb 20 2005, 11:25:45)
> [GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
>    information.
> >>> import socket
> >>> socket.gethostbyname('www.ibm.com')
> '129.42.19.99'
> >>>
>
> When I try it, I get this error:
> >>> import socket
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.py", line 1, in ?
>     # Wrapper module for _socket, providing some additional facilities
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/SocketServer.py", line 274, in ?
>     class TCPServer(BaseServer):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/SocketServer.py", line 317, in TCPServer
>     address_family = socket.AF_INET
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'AF_INET'
> >>>
>
> Why? Thank you.

your Python installation is broken.  what OS are you using?

</F>





From xah at xahlee.org  Tue Oct 18 17:56:32 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 14:56:32 -0700
Subject: write a loopin one line; process file paths
Message-ID: <1129672592.328278.41490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

is there a way to condense the following loop into one line?

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
# python

import re, os.path

imgPaths=[u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2059m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2062m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2097m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Periodic_dosage_dir/lanci/t4/oh/DSCN2099m-s.jpg',
u'/Users/t/web/Icons_dir/icon_sum.gif']

# change the image path to the full sized image, if it exists
# that is, if image ends in -s.jpg, find one without the '-s'.
temp=imgPaths[:]
imgPaths=[]
for myPath in temp:
    p=myPath
    (dirName, fileName) = os.path.split(myPath)
    (fileBaseName, fileExtension)=os.path.splitext(fileName)
    if(re.search(r'-s$',fileBaseName,re.U)):
        p2=os.path.join(dirName,fileBaseName[0:-2]) + fileExtension
        if os.path.exists(p2): p=p2
    imgPaths.append(p)

temp=[]
print imgPaths

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Oct  5 17:04:04 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:04:04 +0200
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <3qit8lFf749gU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>	
	<3qid8sFeigdeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128532128.4560.21.camel@blackwidow>	
	<3qihbfFerdqjU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1128542791.4560.34.camel@blackwidow>
	<3qit8lFf749gU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3qite4Ff749gU2@uni-berlin.de>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>>> Read the comments. What you say is essentially the same - the data 
>>> matters, after all. What do you care if there are several instances
>>> around?
>>>
>> In my case it matters more that the objects are the same.
>>
>> For example I want set([Spam(1), Spam(2),
>> Spam(3)]).intersect(set([Spam(1), Spam(2)]) to contain two items instead
>> of 0.
>>
>> For this and many other reasons it's important that Spam(n) is Spam(n).
> 
> 
> Ah, ok. Well, you could always use the __hash__ method to ensure  that - 
> might be better anyway, because then _you_ define what equality means. 
> But YMMV.

And the __cmp__ or __eq__/__ne__ methdos of course....

Diez


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct  5 07:16:40 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:40 +0200
Subject: bug or feature?
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<di0c50$bab$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <di0cmp$d11$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Interestingly I couldn't find this in the FAQ, though it *is* a
> frequently-asked question [note: my not finding it doesn't guarantee
> it's not there].

it's there:

    http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-default-values-shared-between-objects

(maybe "default values" should be changed to "default argument values")

it's also mentioned in chapter 4 of the tutorial:

    http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006710000000000000000

     "*Important warning*: The default value is evaluated only once. This
    makes a difference when the default is a mutable object such as a list,
    dictionary, or instances of most classes. "

    (the text then illustrates this with examples, and shows how to do things
     instead)

and in the description of "def" in the language reference:

    http://docs.python.org/ref/function.html

   "*Default parameter values are evaluated when the function definition
    is executed*. This means that the expression is evaluated once, when the
    function is defined, and that that same "pre-computed" value is used for
    each call. This is especially important to understand when a default para-
    meter is a mutable object, such as a list or a dictionary: if the function
    modifies the object (e.g. by appending an item to a list), the default
    value is in effect modified."

    (the text then shows how to do things instead)

</F>





From dinamo99 at lycos.com  Thu Oct 20 01:35:05 2005
From: dinamo99 at lycos.com (Joe)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 05:35:05 GMT
Subject: How to extract a part of html file
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.20.05.36.36.987442@lycos.com>

I'm trying to extract part of html code from a tag to a tag code begins
with <span class="boldyellow"><B><U>  and ends with 
TD><TD> <img src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinking of using a regular expression however I having hard time
getting the desired string. I use 

htmlSource = urllib.urlopen("http://address/")
s = htmlSource.read()
htmlSource.close()

to get the html into a string, now I want to match string s from a  <span
class Tag to <img src="http://whatever/some.gif"> </TD></TR></TABLE> and
store that into a new string. 

Thanks 


From dezmodue at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 09:09:14 2005
From: dezmodue at gmail.com (Simone)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:09:14 +0200
Subject: Text not showing up
Message-ID: <434FADFA.8050302@gmail.com>

Hi all, I am new to python and trying to write a simple GUI that would 
call 2 growisofs processes (dvd burning) at the same time, and retrive 
the exit code to be printed on a text box (couldn't find any program 
that could use multiple dvd burners, not even k3b). Excuse me if this is 
really a simple problem, but two days of googling didn't help.
 The program is really simple, I developed the GUI using glade and it 
works.
The only thing I would like to improve is that I'd like it to show in 
the text boxes messages like "Waiting for use input" or "Burning dvd 
please wait", but it looks like even though I don't have any error, the 
message won't show up until the burning process is finished (showing 
either "burning successfully" or "an error occurred").
I am not sure I made myself clear on this, but I will post the relevant 
code trying to explain it:

import os, sys
import gtk.glade
       
class DVD:
   
 
    def __init__(self):
        print "Initializing the Graphic User Interface: This may take 
some time"
        self.xml=gtk.glade.XML("./dvd2.xml") 
        self.window=self.xml.get_widget("dvd")
        self.xml.signal_connect('on_quit_clicked', self.Quit)
        self.xml.signal_connect('on_burn_clicked', self.Burn)   
        
self.OrdKeys=["comboentry1","entry1","spinbutton1","entry2","esitotext","esitotext1"]  
# here esitotext is the box I want the text to show up



    def Quit(self, *args):
        gtk.mainquit()

    def Burn(self, *args):

        comand=""
        comand2=""

        name=self.xml.get_widget("entry1").get_text()            #name 
for the dvd
        path=self.xml.get_widget("comboentry1").get_text()   #path to 
dvd AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS
        num=self.xml.get_widget("spinbutton1").get_text()      #chosing 
the number of dvd to burn
        pub=self.xml.get_widget("entry2").get_text()                
#publisher
        self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("Waiting for 
input")     #    THIS NEVER SHOWS UP

       
        dvd1="/dev/hda"                         # this is the first dvd 
burner, edit as needed
        dvd2="/dev/hdc"                         # this is the second dvd 
burner, edit as needed



        comand+="growisofs -dvd-compat -Z "+dvd1+" -dvd-video -V 
"+name+" -publisher "+pub+" "+path 
        comand2+="growisofs -dvd-compat -Z "+dvd2+" -dvd-video -V 
"+name+" -publisher "+pub+" "+path


        if num == "1":
            self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("Burning the dvd, 
please wait")    #      THIS NEVER SHOWS UP, unless i have an error and 
the program
                                                                        
                                                       #      quits 
before executing the command
            self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").show()                     
                                   #      don't know if this is correct, 
but it doesn't work either
            f = os.popen(comand, 'r')
            line = f.readline()

            error_in_prog = f.close()
            if error_in_prog:
                error=str(error_in_prog)
                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("An error 
occurred. Burn not completed")  # THIS COMES UP as it should
                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").show()
            else:
                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").set_text("Burn 
completed successfully")                    # THIS COMES UP as it should
                self.xml.get_widget("esitotext").show()


if __name__=='__main__':
    main=DVD()
    gtk.main()


Any comment, help, url, really appreciated.

Have a nice day
Simone





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 20 03:16:27 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:16:27 +0200
Subject: Abstract Methods & Abstract Class
References: <AC6DCB1268E3AE49936B9940D6322037013F1D91@BOMEX001.corp.capgemini.com>
	<20051020065644.GA10206@heaven.kostyrka.org>
Message-ID: <dj7g8c$8je$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:

> > Do we have something like abstract methods & Abstract class.
> >
> > So that my class would just define the method. And the implementation
> > would be defined by somebody else.
>
> class AbstractBase:
>     def method(self):
>         raise TypeError("abstract method called")
>
> But basically, Python does not have abstract methods, and usually doesn't
> need them.

the NotImplementedError exception is usually a better choice:

    class AbstractBase:
        def method(self):
            raise NotImplementedError("'method' implementation missing")

</F>





From nszabolcs at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 15:51:43 2005
From: nszabolcs at gmail.com (Szabolcs Nagy)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 12:51:43 -0700
Subject: Where to find python c-sources
In-Reply-To: <5N-dnZny3YyaA6HenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
References: <dhhg9k$jo5$1@news.uit.no><0LZ_e.19644$Ix4.10480@okepread03>
	<5N-dnZny3YyaA6HenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1128369103.275097.258880@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

if u just want to browse the code online then use this:

http://fisheye.cenqua.com/viewrep/python/python/dist/src

*much* nicer than sourceforge cvs viewer

nsz



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct  8 11:29:58 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:29:58 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>	<Xns96E997823CB0Dduncanbooth@127.0.0.1><mailman.1758.1128782947.509.python-list@python.org>
	<E9SdnYjL06y1fNreRVnzvA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <di8olk$jda$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> Yeah, but as far as I can see it, this one too fails to recognize
> situations where the function is called twice with essentially the same
> values, except that in one call it uses named arguments:
>
> k1 = fibonacci(100)
> k2 = fibonacci(idx = 100)
>
> this is essentially the same call, except the second one uses a named
> argument, which means the function will be invoked and a second cache
> entry will be stored.

whoever writes code like that deserves to be punished.

I'd say this thread points to a misunderstanding of what keyword arguments
are, and how they should be used.  the basic rule is that you shouldn't mix and
match; use positional arguments for things that are documented to be positional
parameters, and keyword arguments for keyword parameters.  if you don't,
you'll end up with code that depends on implementation details.  and that's
never a good idea...

</F> 





From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Oct 25 16:54:00 2005
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:54:00 +0200
Subject: Setting Class Attributes
In-Reply-To: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130263774.719830.6230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435e91b1$0$21322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

the.theorist a ?crit :
> I have a small, simple class which contains a dictionary (and some
> other stuff, not shown). I then have a container class (Big) that holds
> some instances of the simple class. When I try to edit the elements of
> the dictionary, all instances obtain those changes; I want each
> instance to hold separate entries.
> 
> #----------Begin module test.py
> class ex:

class ex(object): # oldstyle classes are deprecated

>     def __init__(self, val={}):
>         self.value = val

You didn't search very long. This is one of the most (in)famous Python 
gotchas: default args are evaluated *only once*, when the function 
definition is evaluated (at load time). This is also a dirty trick to 
have a 'static' (as in C) like variable.

The solution is quite simple:
class ex(object):
   def __init__(self, val=None):
     if val is None: val = {}
     self.value = val

(snip)


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 21 22:44:20 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:44:20 GMT
Subject: coloring a complex number
References: <mailman.2374.1129909589.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129946307_147@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
Message-ID: <4359a1a7.624927418@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:55:47 -0500, Brandon K <prince_amir86 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I'm not 100% sure about this, but from what it seems like, the reason 
>method B worked, and not method a is because class foo(complex) is 
>subclassing a metaclass.  So if you do this, you can't init a meta class 
>(try type(complex), it equals 'type' not 'complex'.  type(complex()) 
>yields 'complex'), so you use the new operator to generator a class on 
>the fly which is why it works in method B.  I hope that's right.
>
>-Brandon
>> Spending the morning avoiding responsibilities, and seeing what it would
>> take to color some complex numbers.
>> 
>> class color_complex(complex):
>>         def  __init__(self,*args,**kws):
>>                 complex.__init__(*args)
>>                 self.color=kws.get('color', 'BLUE')
>> 
>>>>> a=color_complex(1,7)
>>>>> print a
>> (1+7j)                                                      #good so far
>>>>> a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE') 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "<pyshell#37>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>>    a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE')
>> TypeError: 'color' is an invalid keyword argument for this function
>> 
>> No good... it seems that I am actually subclassing the built_in function
No, complex is callable, but it's a type:
 >>> complex
 <type 'complex'>

>> 'complex' when I am hoping to have been subclassing the built_in numeric
>> type - complex.
>> 
You need to override __new__ for immutable types, since the args that build
the base object are already used by the time __init__ is called, and UIAM the
default __init__ inherited from object is a noop. However, if you define __init__
you can choose to process the other args in either place, e.g.:

 >>> class color_complex(complex):
 ...     def __new__(cls, *args, **kws):
 ...         return complex.__new__(cls, *args)
 ...     def __init__(self, *args, **kws):
 ...         self.color=kws.get('color', 'BLUE')
 ...
 >>> a=color_complex(1,7)
 >>> a
 (1+7j)
 >>> a=color_complex(1,7, color='BLUE')
 >>> a
 (1+7j)
 >>> a.color
 'BLUE'

Or as in what you found, below:

>> but some googling sends me to lib/test/test_descr.py
>> 
>> where there a working subclass of complex more in
>> accordance with my intentions.
>> 
>> class color_complex(complex):
>>    def __new__(cls,*args,**kws):
>>            result = complex.__new__(cls, *args)
>>            result.color = kws.get('color', 'BLUE')
>>            return result
>> 
>>>>> a=color_complex(1,7,color='BLUE')
>>>>> print a
>> (1+7j)
>>>>> print a.color
>> BLUE
>> 
>> which is very good.

 >>> a=color_complex(1,7, color='RED')
 >>> a
 (1+7j)
 >>> a.color
 'RED'

(just to convince yourself that the default is just a default ;-)


>> 
>> But on the chance that I end up pursuing this road, it would be good if
>> I understood what I just did. It would certainly help with my
>> documentation  ;)
>> 
>> Assistance appreciated.
>> 
>> NOTE:
>> 
>> The importance of the asset of the depth and breadth of Python archives
>> -  for learning (and teaching) and real world production - should not be
>> underestimated, IMO. I could be confident if there was an answer to
>> getting the functionality I was looking for as above, it would be found
>> easily enough by a google search.  It is only with the major
>> technologies that one can hope to pose a question of almost any kind to
>> google and get the kind of relevant hits one gets when doing a Python
>> related search.  Python is certainly a major technology, in that
>> respect.  As these archives serve as an extension to the documentation,
>> the body of Python documentation is beyond any  normal expectation.
>> 
>> True, this asset is generally better for answers than explanations.
>> 
>> I got the answer I needed.  Pursuing here some explanation of that answer.
>> 
HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 26 11:49:59 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:49:59 +0200
Subject: WinXP vs. Win98
References: <1130331088.292656.213430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djo8j8$t4p$1@sea.gmane.org>

sidanko at scientist.com wrote:

> I use Python 2.3.3 (Enthought edition) with wxPython and it is
> installed on both WinXP and Win98. On Win98 machine I have the
> following error:

>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\site-packages\freetype\font_lookup.py", line
> 24, in ?
>     font_dirs.append(os.path.join(os.environ[ 'systemroot' ],'fonts'))
>   File "C:\PYTHON23\lib\os.py", line 417, in __getitem__
>     return self.data[key.upper()]
> KeyError: 'SYSTEMROOT'
> >>>

> Hovewer running very the same script on WinXP machine I have no
> problems at all. What's wrong? Kiva package (as well as others) is
> installed properly. Where to dig?

Windows XP has SystemDrive and SystemRoot environment variables,
while Windows 98 don't seem to have them.

a quick workaround is to set the SystemRoot environment by hand (it should
point to the Windows system directory; usually c:\windows. iirc, you have to
edit AUTOEXEC.BAT or run the MSCONFIG utility to set them).

alternatively, you can add the following fix to your application code:

    import os
    os.environ["SystemRoot"] = os.environ.get("windir", "c:\\windows")

(put it *before* the wxplot import code)

a better fix is to make the freetype font_lookup code a bit more robust.

</F>





From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Thu Oct 13 10:41:04 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:41:04 +1000
Subject: Adding methods to an object
References: <1129208780.605763.218110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.13.14.41.03.509627@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:06:20 -0700, Gabriele *darkbard* Farina wrote:

> Hi, there is a way to add methods to an object dynamically? 

Yes. There are three different sorts of methods, and three ways of adding
them.

py> class Parrot:
...     def __init__(self):
...         pass
py> # Parrot is the class.
py> # Parrot() is an instance of the class.

Firstly, you want an ordinary method with a "self" parameter, as if you
had defined it when you created the class.


py> def spam(self):
...     return "Spam comes from %s" % self
... 
py> Parrot.spam = spam

Now we try calling it from an instance:

py> Parrot().spam()
'Spam comes from <__main__.Parrot instance at 0xed498fec>'

If you try to call spam direct from the class, it fails:

py> Parrot.spam()
TypeError: unbound method spam() must be called with Parrot instance as
first argument (got nothing instead)



The second way of adding a method is a class method. Class methods don't
know about the instance you call them from, only the class.

py> def fjords(cls):
...     return "I'm pining for the fjords at %s." % cls
... 
py> Parrot.fjords = classmethod(fjords)

Now we can call it from either the class or any instance, and get the
exact same result. fjords just can't see the instance, only the class:

py> Parrot.fjords()
"I'm pining for the fjords at __main__.Parrot"
py> Parrot().fjords()
"I'm pining for the fjords at __main__.Parrot"



Lastly, we can add a static method, that doesn't know about either the
class or the instance:

py> def ham():
...     return "Genuine pig product." 
... 
py> Parrot.ham = staticmethod(ham)
py> Parrot.ham()
'Genuine pig product'
py> Parrot().ham()
'Genuine pig product'



Summary:

If you write the function with a "self" argument, and just add it to the
class, you must call that method using an instance. This is an ordinary
instance method, as if you had created the class with it.

If you write the function with a "cls" argument, you must add it to the
class with a classmethod() call, and then call it from either the class or
an instance. This method cannot access the instance that calls it, only
the class.

If you write the function without a "self" or "cls" argument, you must add
it to the class with a staticmethod() call. This method cannot access
either the class or the instance object.



-- 
Steven.



From peck at spss.com  Mon Oct  3 08:14:02 2005
From: peck at spss.com (Peck, Jon)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 07:14:02 -0500
Subject: Finding the Process Path
Message-ID: <5CFEFDB5226CB54CBB4328B9563A12EE02C62153@hqemail2.spss.com>

I have Python code running in an application, and I would like to find the full path of the process executable where it is running.  I can do this with win32api.GetModuleFileName(0) on Windows, but I would like a solution that uses only standard modules and works cross platform.  Any suggestions?

 

TIA.

 

Jon K Peck (Kim)

peck at spss.com <mailto:peck at spss.com> 

312-651-3435

233 S Wacker Dr

Chicago, IL 60606

 

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From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 17 17:25:54 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 21:25:54 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>

"Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:

> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber at 130.133.1.4...

>> Yup, but ISO C++ is a standard, and XML is a recommendation.
> 
> And the practical difference between the two is....
> 
> That's right, nil.

If you both read them as a collection of words, you're right. However, as a 
(freelance) programmer, things like this *do* make a difference to me, and 
my customers. Otherwise I can suck on my thumb, write some words on a piece 
of paper, and call them standards myself.

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 01:36:49 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:36:49 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<rpv4l1hhcnfdpc5t8it3lrrbuhh2g4ks4f@4ax.com>
	<Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<jpV4f.3122$tV6.2733@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D6EAAC3BBcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <RR%4f.1959$dO2.144@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F2D6EAAC3BBcastleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96F1E574E6873castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
>>> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16 Oct 2005 05:22:47 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote
>>>> or quoted :
>>>>
>>>>>No, it's a recommendation, an advise, nothing else. Otherwise they
>>>>>would call it a standard. Why do you think W3C calls it
>>>>>recommendations? Because it are no standards. There is an ISO HTML
>>>>>standard though, but when people babble about HTML standards they
>>>>>talk about W3C *recommendations*.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think the Internet is based on?  RFCs.
>>>
>>> Yup, I know. Hence no standards.
>>>
>>> Like I said: there is ISO HTML, and there is a w3c HTML 4.01
>>> recommendation. The former is a standard, the latter is a defacto
>>> standard.
>>> For some the difference does matter.
>>
>> What matters in generating HTML is which browsers you want to support
>> and what they understand.  Standards and recommendations are both
>> irrelevant.
>
> So how do you develop a browser? I assume you have some experience with
> programming, or is that trial and error programming? Hack until it
> works?
>

A browser that's perfectly compliant but can't render the pages actually 
found would be of only academic interest.  So, yes, the standards (and 
recommendations) are one source of requirements, but the actual contents of 
the internet is another. 




From gene.tani at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 23:07:07 2005
From: gene.tani at gmail.com (gene tani)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 20:07:07 -0700
Subject: where to get modules for python
In-Reply-To: <1129080870.418774.76390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129080870.418774.76390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129086427.651616.192970@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/library.html#how-do-i-find-a-module-or-application-to-perform-task-x
eight02645999 at yahoo.com wrote:
> hi
> i am new to python and was wondering where can i find modules for
> python?
> Something very much like what CPAN has for Perl.
> I am searching for SSL/SSH modules for use in Python. 
> thanks



From iddw at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  7 17:29:53 2005
From: iddw at hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:29:53 GMT
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<11kd19ajdtkoi6f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128709915.677e761b4ee3431140a6964c46a02b82@teranews>
	<mailman.1728.1128719692.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128720597.ce996e0843e491943d346255fc679cce@teranews>

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:18:57 -0500, Terry Hancock
<hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>On Friday 07 October 2005 01:31 pm, Dave Hansen wrote:

Actually, I didn't, though I did respond to it.  Please watch your
attributions.

Thanks,

                               -=Dave
-- 
Change is inevitable, progress is not.


From vbfoobar at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 08:02:10 2005
From: vbfoobar at gmail.com (vbfoobar at gmail.com)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 05:02:10 -0700
Subject: How to make command history persistent?
In-Reply-To: <1129631441.629180.191200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129627265.021498.146390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129631441.629180.191200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129636197.448855.179520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Great! The indicated "history save" works!
Thanks



From kent37 at tds.net  Fri Oct 21 13:33:11 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:33:11 -0400
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
In-Reply-To: <1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357d998$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<1129831950.926154.196420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129912485.866312.298390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4359244e$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>

nephish at xit.net wrote:
> i am running a query on a database and making a list of time, value
> pairs
> kinda like this
> plot_points = ([time, value], [time, value], [time, value])
> gnuplot complains that it needs a float for one of the values.
> i can plot just the value, and it shows up ( no x value found)
> 
> how should i proceed?

Convert one of the values to a float? What are your time and value numbers?

Kent


From http  Tue Oct 11 17:45:46 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 14:45:46 -0700
Subject: Nicer way of strip and replace?
References: <dihb4t$t43$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7xpsqb6839.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Markus Rosenstihl <mrosenstihl at macnews.de> writes:
> This looks ugly (I htink)  and I wonder if there is a nicer way to
> strip commata and change the comma to a dot already when reading in.
> Or should i do it with a shell script before processing in python?

First of all you should just set your locale to use comma instead
of dot as the numeric decimal, instead of translating commas to dots.

Second, for the field separation, see if you can configure the csv
module to do it for you.


From free.condiments at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 16:35:40 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 13:35:40 -0700
Subject: Calling an exe from Python?
In-Reply-To: <1129492892.037665.123590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129492892.037665.123590@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129494940.848238.305130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

from subprocess import Popen
proc = Popen('my_programme.exe')

Use proc.communicate(input) to send input to stdin, and get a tuple of
(stdout, stderr) back. If you need the returncode, use proc.poll() or
proc.wait(), depending on if you want it to block or not.



From edhotchkiss at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 11:10:34 2005
From: edhotchkiss at gmail.com (Ed Hotchkiss)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:10:34 -0400
Subject: Which SQL module to use?
In-Reply-To: <4342925A.1040807@ghaering.de>
References: <1128433394.470896.89770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4342925A.1040807@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <d1bf1fa20510040810l758267b8hec3c5fc7f7d53997@mail.gmail.com>

I'm using MySQLdb. I use a FREE MySQL server at
freesql.org<http://freesql.org>.
I also have an example class and some functions that use the module. even a
simple script that turns a .cvs into a mysql table.
contact me if interested.
 -edward
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From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 14:58:13 2005
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 11:58:13 -0700
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
In-Reply-To: <1128449405.776337.251380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128432188.408503.309280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128449405.776337.251380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128452293.752325.242520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> I could ask her, "If you can't break it is that good enough security?"

Guess not. Most non-programmers think everyone else who knows some
programming is a some sort of hacker genius.

Instead come up with a simple solution then explain her how it will
works. I think in the ensuing conversation you'll find out more on what
approach would put her mind at ease.

Istvan.



From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 13 19:53:58 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:53:58 -0400
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<86y853mzmr.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3H1q.49L@bath.ac.uk>
	<86mzlil269.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<i3ilk1haarc1lfv9nrevvcr3kne6uc7q05@4ax.com>
	<mZP2f.10729$U9.244@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<86slv8xdkw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<lnvqk192k5k3avi3hvgvuqgp8846ksd7q4@4ax.com>
	<Xns96EE843405C45bguild31425@64.59.144.76>
Message-ID: <86zmpdt1m1.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Brendan Guild <dont at spam.me> writes:
>> 2. flipping to a sender pays system so that the Internet does not
>> subsidise spam.
>
> This is very promising. Our ISPs should put limits on how much email we 
> can send. The limits should be rather insane, nothing that any 
> nonspammer would ever come close to, but low enough to stop spam dead. 
> If we want to send more than that, we'd better be charged extra.
>
> We could make each mail server responsible for the spam that it sends 
> out. It seems that currently mail servers are swamped and spending big 
> money on handling the vast loads of spam that gets pumped into them 
> from other mail servers, so I'm sure they wouldn't mind having a rule 
> like: Refuse to allow email to be transported from any server that 
> spews more than 50% spam. Servers could be audited occasionally to 
> check if they are spammers.

Except that lots of spam doesn't *go* through the ISPs server. It's
running on some Windows zombie, and delivering mail directly to the
recipients server. It'll only go through the ownee's mail server if
the ISP blocks outbound SMTP connections.

> I don't know exactly how spammers send spam, but a rule like that would 
> sure stop ISPs from allowing any one person to send a thousand emails a 
> day.

And that would work if spammers needed an ISPs permissions to send
email. But they don't.

       <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From mauriceling at acm.org  Fri Oct  7 06:29:56 2005
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:29:56 +0800
Subject: New Python book
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1572.1128550286.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1572.1128550286.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43464E24.3050609@acm.org>

I had the opportunity to glance through the book in Borders yesterday. 
On the whole, I think it is well covered and is very readable. Perhaps I 
was looking for a specific aspect, and I find that threads did not get 
enough attention. Looking at the index pages, the topics on threads 
(about 4-5 pages) is mainly found in the context of GUI programming.

maurice


Dick Moores wrote:

> (Sorry, my previous post should not have had "Tutor" in the subject 
> header.)
> 
> Magnus Lie Hetland's new book, _Beginning Python: From Novice to
> Professional_ was published by Apress on Sept. 26 (in the U.S.). My copy
> arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. Very much worth a look, IMHO.
> But what do the experts here think?
> 
> <http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/159059519X>
> 
> Dick Moores
> rdm at rcblue.com
> 
> 



From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Sun Oct  2 13:23:21 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:23:21 GMT
Subject: Distributing programs
In-Reply-To: <QOudnRHYHr2zYqLeRVn-qQ@rcn.net>
References: <mailman.1346.1128266442.509.python-list@python.org>
	<QOudnRHYHr2zYqLeRVn-qQ@rcn.net>
Message-ID: <dIU%e.168$_%3.38273@newshog.newsread.com>

Jeff Schwab wrote:
> Sorta, but not really.  Typically, you might distribute the source (.py)
>  files, but if you don't want to do that, you can distribute the
> compiled .pyc files instead.  Python creates these files automatically
> when your modules are imported.

But remember that Python bytecode can be easily decompiled with a
publicly-available program.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 24 07:22:54 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:22:54 +0200
Subject: ABOUT FIND
References: <1d987df30510240357r7a557822h9af6d5720da2c8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djig6h$me8$1@sea.gmane.org>

Shi Mu wrote:

>I got confused by the following information from the help for "FIND":
> find(s, *args)

what "FIND" ?

>>> help(str.find)
Help on method_descriptor:

find(...)
    S.find(sub [,start [,end]]) -> int

    Return the lowest index in S where substring sub is found,
    such that sub is contained within s[start,end].  Optional
    arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.

    Return -1 on failure.

maybe it's string.find?  (that's a backwards compatibility thing; new code
should use the corresponding method instead).

>>> help(string.find)
Help on function find in module string:

find(s, *args)
    find(s, sub [,start [,end]]) -> in

    Return the lowest index in s where substring sub is found,
    such that sub is contained within s[start,end].  Optional
    arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.

    Return -1 on failure.

> what does *args mean (especially the '*')?

help() uses introspection to find the function signature, so the first find()
you're seeing is probably how the function is declared, while the second
one comes from the help string itself.  I guess string.find looks like this:

    def find(s, *args):
        return s.find(*args)

here, the first "*args" means "take a variable number of arguments, and put
the extra arguments in the args variable", the second means "call this method
with arguments taken from the args variable")

but this is an implementation detail (and a limitation in the help system), and
nothing you need to bother with when *using* the find method/function.

> also, in the sub, why put a comma before start?

it means that you should put a comma *between* sub and start if you provide
a start argument, but not add an extra comma if you're only providing a sub
argument.

this would probably be easier to read:

    S.find(sub,  [start, [end]]) -> int

but if the help text looked like that, some nincompoop would most likely complain
that it was broken since you're not really supposed to write:

    S.find(sub,)

(not that it matters in this case; Python ignores trailing commas in function calls,
but they look a bit silly).

> what does 'in' mean?

the method help text says "int", so it looks like a typo, or a cut/paste error.

</F> 





From rich.teer at rite-group.com  Sat Oct  8 19:35:40 2005
From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:35:40 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081633200.21577@excalibur>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> But trying to keep your email world into a pure text-based
> no-formatting-whatsoever world, that's a fantasy bubble that is bound to
> burst, sooner rather than later.

Not here.  I've configured my email server to reject HTML emails
before I even see them, and more often tham not I'll delete any
others that sneak through the gate.

If people want me to read their email, they should send it to me
in an open, universal format, which for email is plain text.  It's
as simple as that.

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  4 17:38:02 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:38:02 -0000
Subject: how to get any available port
References: <mailman.1470.1128460780.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11k5thqpr7m3q5d@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-04, Mohammed Smadi <smadim2 at grads.ece.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2005-10-04, ncf <nothingcanfulfill at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > Hmm...perhaps he is trying to do a transfer thing like many chat
>> > programs do. Instead of sending large files across a server, you
>> > "Direct Connect" and send the file directly. :shrugs:
>> 
>> So how does that require binding the client end of a TCP
>> connection?
>
> what else would you do?

Just call connect():

> I am using examples from the web and they all bind to a port
> at the localhost before connecting to the remote host.

I don't know who wrote those examles, but I've never seen it
done that way before.  Take a look at the examples from the
python socket module docs:

http://docs.python.org/lib/socket-example.html

> my code is like this
>
> #transmission socket
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,  socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> s.bind(("",hp_port)) # do some error checking
>
>
> data="HI"
> print data
> s.connect(('192.168.2.13',port))
> s.send(data)
> print "\n"
>
> which is working fine for me after putting the 
> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1) statement

Just skip the bind() call.  It's useless.

#transmission socket

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,  socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.connect(('192.168.2.13',port))
s.send(data)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Are you still an
                                  at               ALCOHOLIC?
                               visi.com            


From spammers-go-here at spam.invalid  Thu Oct  6 19:45:02 2005
From: spammers-go-here at spam.invalid (Madhusudan Singh)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:45:02 -0400
Subject: Force flushing buffers
Message-ID: <4345b6e8$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hi

        I have a python application that writes a lot of data to a bunch of files
from inside a loop. Sometimes, the application has to be interrupted and I
find that a lot of data has not yet been writen (and hence is lost). How do
I flush the buffer and force python to write the buffers to the files ? I
intend to put this inside the loop.

Thanks.


From jadedgamer at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 26 12:05:45 2005
From: jadedgamer at hotmail.com (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 18:05:45 +0200
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<11lsopl4qpg9gc2@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.25.17.16.04.89184@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<MPG.1dc83e5092b6a44c98a5ca@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <ubr1cjmau.fsf@hotmail.com>

entropy <entropy at domain.invalid> writes:

> IBM seems to have had a history of squeezing out competition in the 
> same way Microsoft has, if I recall correctly.

... and were told not to by a court. Which is the whole reason for the
existence of IBM clones, whether PCs or mainframes.


From jon_usenet at capisco.com  Thu Oct 13 11:18:13 2005
From: jon_usenet at capisco.com (jon)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 08:18:13 -0700
Subject: Comparing lists
In-Reply-To: <digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


To take the heat out of the discussion:

sets are blazingly fast.



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Sat Oct  8 21:25:16 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 18:25:16 -0700
Subject: [regex] case-splitting strings in unicode
In-Reply-To: <di9m1c$fm2$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <di9m1c$fm2$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20051009012516.GB26320@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 09, John Perks and Sarah Mount wrote:
> I have to split some identifiers that are casedLikeThis into their
> component words. In this instance I can safely use [A-Z] to represent
> uppercase, but what pattern should I use if I wanted it to work more
> generally? I can envisage walking the string testing the
> unicodedata.category of each char, but is there a regex'y way to
> denote "uppercase"?

Not sure what your output should look like but something like this could
work:

>>> import re
>>> re.sub(r'([A-Z])', r' \1', 'theFirstTest theSecondTest')
'the First Test the Second Test'

This can be adapted for multiline, etc, but maybe '[A-Z]' is
sufficiently general.  The regex module does have an understanding of
unicode (but I don't, sorry); you could add (?u) make it unicode aware.
For programming language identifiers I wouldn't think that unicode
should be an issue.  Sorry I'm no help with unicode specifics.

Some useful links:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/module-re.html
http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/regex.html

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From sxn02 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 12:57:06 2005
From: sxn02 at yahoo.com (Sori Schwimmer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with concurrency control (threads/processes & signals)
Message-ID: <20051027165706.21653.qmail@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I am working on an application which involves
interprocess communication. More to the point,
processes should be able to notify other processes
about certain situations, so the "notifyees" would be
able to act in certain ways.

As processes are distributed on several machines, in
different physical locations, my thinking was:
a) set a message manager (MM)
b) all the participants will register with MM, so MM
will have their host address and their pid on host
c) when someone needs to send a notification, it is
sent to MM, and MM it's doing the job

To start with, I created processes, psrv.py and
clnt.py, and tried to sketch the above scenario.

Here is the server, psrv.py:


#! /usr/bin/python

from socket import *
from os import *
from signal import *
from cPickle import *
#import pdb
import thread

#pdb.set_trace()

def process(ms):
    global c,regtab,mssgs
    print 'ms[0]=',ms[0]
    if ms[0]=='0':
      regtab.append(ms[1])
      mssgs.append([])
    elif ms[0]=='1':
      for i in range(len(regtab)):
        mssgs[i].append(ms[1])
        kill(regtab[i],SIGUSR1)
    elif ms[0]=='2':
      for i in range(len(regtab)):
        if regtab[i]!=ms[2]:
          mssgs[i].append(ms[1])
          kill(regtab[i],SIGUSR1)
    elif ms[0]=='3':
      print 'executing ms[0]==3'
      for i in range(len(regtab)):
        if regtab[i]==ms[1]:
          c,p=s.accept()
          for j in mssgs[i]:
            c.send(dumps(j,True))
          c.close()
    print 'connection closed'

regtab=[]
mssgs=[]

s=socket()
s.bind(('127.0.0.1',9691))
s.listen(5)

while True:
  print 'listening ...'
  c,p=s.accept()
  while True:
    m=c.recv(1024)
    if not m: break
    ms=loads(m)
  c.close()

  thread.start_new_thread(process,(ms,))
# ***************************************************

And here is the client side, clnt.py:


#! /usr/bin/python

from socket import *
from os import *
from signal import *
from cPickle import *
#import pdb

#pdb.set_trace()

def k3(a,b):
  print 'Executing k3'
  s=socket()
  s.connect(('127.0.0.1',9691))
  s.send(dumps(('3',getpid()),True))
  while True:
    print '"3" sent'
    m1=s.recv(1024)
    print m1
    if not m1: break
    m=loads(m1)
  s.close()
  print 'connection closed in k3'
  print 'm is ',m

signal(SIGUSR1,k3)

m=''
k=raw_input()
while k!='4':
  s=socket()
  s.connect(('127.0.0.1',9691))
  if k=='0':
    s.send(dumps(('0',getpid()),True))
  elif k=='1':
    s.send(dumps(('1','For all'),True))
  elif k=='2':
    s.send(dumps(('2','For some',getpid()),True))
  elif k=='3':
    s.send(dumps(('3',getpid()),True))
    while True:
      m1=s.recv(1024)
      if not m1: break
      m=loads(m1)
  s.close()
  print 'connection closed in main'
  print 'm is',m
  k=raw_input()
# ***************************************************


Comments: Clients register themselves with server by
sending a message of type '0'. If they want to
broadcast a message, clients will ask nicely the
server to do it for them through a message of type
'1'. The message is supposed to be kept in
eachclient's "mailbox", then the server should notify
each client by sending a SIGUSR1 signal, and then
waiting for each clientto ask for its own copy of the
notification. When a client is ready to do it, will
just send a message of type '3' to the server.
Messages of type '2' are just a variation of type '1'
which dosen't include the sender in the list of
receivers.

My first version was forking a new process in the
server to serve requests, but I soon realized that, as
each process receives a copy of the original data,
updating the "mailboxes" won't work (the "mailboxes"
updated are local copies). In the threads version the
"mailboxes" are shared, but so are the sockets, which
will force me to add some locks and make sure that an
open socket in the server will talk only with a
certain client.

For the moment I am toying with one server, and one
client. Still, it is not working as expected. '0' goes
through, so does'1', but not '3' ('3' as a result of
'1', or '3' requested from keyboard).

Life is a struggle. Programming in Python shouldn't
be. Ergo, I'm doing something wrong.

Any advice?

Thanks,
Sorin

Environment: Gentoo Linux, Python 2.4.1


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From kevin.bell at slcgov.com  Thu Oct  6 16:51:45 2005
From: kevin.bell at slcgov.com (Bell, Kevin)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:51:45 -0600
Subject: interactive window vs. script:  inconsistent behavior
Message-ID: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F1B@slcimail1.slcgov.com>

Oops!  Sorry about that post.  I'm pulling data from excel, and needed
to convert the object I pulled into a string before slicing.

I guess I should look (more thoroughly) before I leap.




-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+kevin.bell=slcgov.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Bell, Kevin
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:44 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: interactive window vs. script: inconsistent behavior

The following works in the interactive window of PythonWin, but fails in
a script.  TypeError: Objects of type 'slice' can not be converted to a
COM VARIANT

I just need to parse out these dates, but it's making me crazy.
Shouldn't it work in both the interactive window and a script?  


>>> d = "5-18-05 to 5-31-05"
>>> print d[0:d.find("to")-1]
5-18-05
>>> print d[d.find("to")+3:]
5-31-05
>>>




Kev


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct 16 12:35:38 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:35:38 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8a05l117hv2p71r329kj7a1geq6vva84ak@4ax.com>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:58 +0200, "Jeroen Wenting" <jwenting at
hornet dot demon dot nl> wrote or quoted :

>They are the ones who lowered the price of shrinkwrapped software for home 
>and office application from thousands or tens of thousands to hundreds of 
>dollars.

Come now. While software generally has reduced in price, MS software
has increased.

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 10 11:19:36 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:19:36 +0100
Subject: Default argument to __init__
In-Reply-To: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128955812.913224.150760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <die0q9$7ev$1@sea.gmane.org>

netvaibhav at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All:
> 
> Here's a piece of Python code and it's output. The output that Python
> shows is not as per my expectation. Hope someone can explain to me this
> behaviour:
> 
> [code]
> class MyClass:
>         def __init__(self, myarr=[]):
>                 self.myarr = myarr
> 
> myobj1 = MyClass()
> myobj2 = MyClass()
> 
> myobj1.myarr += [1,2,3]
> 
> myobj2.myarr += [4,5,6]
> 
> print myobj1.myarr
> print myobj2.myarr
> [/code]
> 
> The output is:
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
> 
> Why do myobj1.myarr and myobj2.myarr point to the same list? The
> default value to __init__ for the myarr argument is [], so I expect
> that every time an object of MyClass is created, a new empty list is
> created and assigned to myarr, but it seems that the same empty list
> object is assigned to myarr on every invocation of MyClass.__init__
> 
> It this behaviour by design? If so, what is the reason, as the
> behaviour I expect seems pretty logical.
> 
The default value of the keyword argument is evaluated once, at function 
declaration time. The idiom usually used to avoid this gotcha is:

     def __init__(self, myarr=None):
         if myarr is None:
             myarr = []

This ensures each call with the default myarr gets its own list.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 13:53:43 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 10:53:43 -0700
Subject: Jpg
Message-ID: <1130349223.948333.83230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am building a GUI interface at the moment, and would like to have
support for displaying a jpg file, and a FITS file if possible. Is
there any way to do this? My interface has been written in Tkinter at
the moment, especially because of it's great portability, I wouldn't
have to install the other interface software on every computer that I
use (At the moment it is 3, and will signifigantly increase). I'd
prefer to only use built-in functions, but if it can't be done, I'm
willing to look for something else. Is there any way I can do this?
Thanks!



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 19:20:30 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:20:30 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510090915350.21577@excalibur>
	<djsik1llvhhd3j4sthaed021puv1uh5n2u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.23.20.28.371573@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:01:28 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> You might say what about those free 10 mb websites?  That's not very
> many images with today's megapixel digital cameras.

My system admins have a number of names for people who try to send
multi-megabyte files by email. The names start with "accursed of God"
and rapidly get worse. Email is not designed to cope with such large file
sizes, and if you are running virus scanners and spam filters -- and you
should be -- performance rapidly goes downhill from there.

> I think we computer folk owe the public 

We don't owe the public *anything* if they don't pay for it. We might
*choose* to build it for free, but that's our choice, not a duty.

[snip]
> I wrote an essay years ago on how such an email system might work.

Ah, I see. Another pie-in-the-sky replacement for email. Well, good luck
with it. I wish you every success, but don't ask me to buy shares in your
startup.


-- 
Steven.



From lycka at carmen.se  Wed Oct  5 04:12:51 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:12:51 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <di01u3$ifm$1@wake.carmen.se>

James A. Donald wrote:
> What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug?

Unit tests. In my experience the edit - test cycle in
Python is typically roughly as fast as the edit - compile
cycle in e.g. C++, and much faster than the full edit -
compile - link - test cycle in C++.

You do use automated tests for your programs don't you?
Otherwise I think you are sifting out gnats while you
are are swallowing camels.

There are also lint-like tools such as pylint and
pychecker if you think static tests are useful for you.

Here at Carmen, we've actually skipped the unit test
step, and run functional tests at once, using the
Texttest framework--and that fits well with our type
of apps. See http://texttest.carmen.se/


From iainking at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 07:15:34 2005
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 04:15:34 -0700
Subject: Top-quoting defined [was: namespace dictionaries ok?]
In-Reply-To: <Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2561.1130271788.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns96FB59E3A1347duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1130325334.351987.144060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Duncan Booth wrote:
> James Stroud wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday 25 October 2005 00:31, Duncan Booth wrote:
> >> P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting
> >
> > Were it not for Steve Holden's providing me with a link off the list,
> > I would have never known to what it is you are referring. I have read
> > some relevant literature to find that this is more widely known as
> > "top-posting". I'll go with majority rules here, but I would like to
> > say that my lack of "netiquette" in this matter comes from
> > practicality and not malice.
>
> No, I didn't think it was malice which is why I just added what I
> considered to be a polite request at the end of my message. I assumed that
> most people either knew the phrase or could find out in a few seconds using
> Google so there wasn't much point in rehashing the arguments. Probably I
> should have equally lambasted Ron for the heinous crime of bottom-quoting.
>
> In general, there are three ways to quote a message: top-quoting, which
> forces people to read the message out of order; bottom-quoting which is
> nearly as bad because it hides the new comments; and proper quoting in
> context where you trim the message and put specific points under brief bits
> of context.
>

Just to continue this off-topic argument :)  -

I've never heard the terms top-quoting, bottom-quoting.  I've heard
top-posting and bottom-posting before (lots).  But regardless of
however many people use top-quoting and bottom-quoting, surely you're
using them the wrong way around?  If I top-post, then that means that
the quote is at the bottom, no?

To quote someone's sig block:
 "To top-post is human, to bottom-post and snip is sublime."

Iain



From theller at python.net  Fri Oct 14 14:56:14 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:56:14 +0200
Subject: Moving to Win XP as a Python developer
References: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>
	<mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dincd6$h1c$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434fdd3b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <u0fkorld.fsf@python.net>

Scott David Daniels <scott.daniels at acm.org> writes:

> Christian Stapfer wrote:
>> "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.2039.1129247775.509.python-list at python.org...
>>
>>>cmd.exe can be made bearable....
>>>
>>>0. Make a shortcut to cmd.exe, stick it somewhere get-at-able,
>>>  eg. quick launch toolbar

> I put it on my desktop.  Once having made it, fiddle with
> "Start in" to be your favorite python code directory (that is
> why I usually have several), and append a space and /D /X /F:ON
> to the "Target" line.

I have an elisp function bound to a key in XEmacs that starts cmd in the
directory where the current buffer is.  IMO this is very convenient.  To
access explorer from that command prompt (in the rare cases that I need
it) I use 'start .'.

Thomas


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 12 09:14:35 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 13:14:35 GMT
Subject: C Wrapper Function, crashing Python?
References: <1129122046.417746.100120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndkq31r.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-12, Java and Swing schreef <codecraig at gmail.com>:
> static PyObject *wrap_doStuff(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> 	// this will store the result in a Python object
> 	PyObject *finalResult;
>
> 	// get arguments from Python
> 	char *result = 0;
> 	char *in= 0;
>     	char *aString = 0;
> 	char *bString = 0;
> 	MY_NUM *a;
> 	MY_NUM *b;
> 	int ok = PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sss", &in, &aString, &bString);
> 	if (!ok) return 0;
>
> 	// do work to get a and b
> 	// count - returns an int;  GetVal - returns a char *
> 	a = GetVal(aString, count(aString, ","));
> 	b = GetVal(bString, count(bString, ","));
>
> 	// make function call, which returns a char *
> 	result = doStuff(in, a, b);
>
> 	// save result in Python string
> 	finalResult = PyString_FromString(result);
>
> 	// free memory
> 	PyMem_Free(result);
> 	PyMem_Free(a);
> 	PyMem_Free(b);
>
> 	// return the result as a Python string
> 	return finalResult;
> }
>
> ...from python I can call this function 4 times...works fine.  WHen I
> call it for the fifth time python.exe crashes.  im thinking some memory
> problem in the wrapper function perhaps...but I am not sure.  The
> actually C function, doStuff can be called 5, 6,7...N times without a
> problem
> so i know its gotta be my wrapper.
>
> Any ideas?  Thanks!

Well assuming your doStuff is a C function that knows nothing of python.
it might be the PyMem_Free(result).
http://docs.python.org/api/memoryInterface.html says the following:

void PyMem_Free(void *p)
    Frees the memory block pointed to by p, which must have been
    returned by a previous call to PyMem_Malloc() or PyMem_Realloc().
    Otherwise, or if PyMem_Free(p) has been called before, undefined
    behavior occurs. If p is NULL, no operation is performed.

But your result wasn't allocated by a PyMem_Malloc, it was returned
to you by a C function.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From http  Thu Oct 13 19:30:17 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 16:30:17 -0700
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
References: <mailman.2019.1129225413.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.13.22.38.38.454866@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xmzld571y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> Others have given answers involving xrange() and itertools.count(), but I
> thought I'd just mention that in my opinion, what you have written is
> pretty elegant and concise and best of all, doesn't have the same problems
> xrange() and itertools.count() have when then hit maxint. Not everything
> needs to be a one-liner or a mysterious blackbox.

When you say "problems" with xrange or itertools.count hitting maxint,
the correct word is "bugs".  The right thing to do with library bugs
is fix them, not clutter up your application code to circumvent them.
xrange, at least, raises an error if you give it too large an
argument, but what itertools.count does is just plain dangerous.

I just opened SF bug 1326277 about itertools.count.


From borell at nytimes.com  Fri Oct 14 14:51:01 2005
From: borell at nytimes.com (Frank Borell)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 11:51:01 -0700
Subject: win32api.FindFiles Win2003, problem with Short Name
In-Reply-To: <p%C3f.17259$U51.14445@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <1129245942.185252.171220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<p%C3f.17259$U51.14445@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1129315861.886705.116980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Neil,

On all three types of PC/Servers they are set to 0.

For now I'll have to process this script on non 2003 servers?!?

Thanks,

Frank



From nun at example.com  Fri Oct 21 17:56:33 2005
From: nun at example.com (Mitja Trampus)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:56:33 +0200
Subject: Python cgi
In-Reply-To: <1129930246.435616.291660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129930246.435616.291660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lud6f.879$h6.290515@news.siol.net>

jbrewer wrote:
> I'm currently writing my first CGI script (in Python), and I keep
> getting an error I don't know how to address.  I'm not sure if this is
> a Python or Apache error, but I suspect it's an Apache config thing.

I suspect it's neither :)
Make sure your HTML form looks like
<form method="post" enctype="multipart/form-data" ...etc, 
e.g. action="foo.py">


From case.nelson at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 17:08:59 2005
From: case.nelson at gmail.com (snoe)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:08:59 -0700
Subject: Function to execute only once
In-Reply-To: <1129322058.901077.90680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129322058.901077.90680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129324139.891942.3710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The problem seemed to be because I was rebinding result inside
executor. Can someone explain why it works below but not in the first
one?

Also why is it if I set tmp as a global and don't pass it as a
paremeter to the various functions as per the OP that I get an
"UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tmp' referenced before assignment"?

def execute_once(fn):
    print "in execute_once"
    result = {}
    def executor(*args, **kwargs):
        if fn not in result:
            result[fn] = fn(*args, **kwargs)
        return result[fn]
    return executor

@execute_once
def execute(tmp):
    print "in execute"
    tmp = tmp+1
    return tmp

def func1(tmp):
    return execute(tmp)

def func2(tmp):
    return execute(tmp)

tmp = 0
print 'init tmp:', tmp
tmp = func1(tmp)
print 'ran func1 tmp:', tmp
tmp = func2(tmp)
print 'ran func2 tmp:', tmp
tmp = func1(tmp)
print 'ran func1 tmp:', tmp

OUTPUT:
in execute_once
init tmp: 0
in execute
ran func1 tmp: 1
ran func2 tmp: 1
ran func1 tmp: 1



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Fri Oct 21 21:07:29 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 01:07:29 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>
	<dj56ba$2oe$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<d8uel1ldn28q45ka1mrb2ep26cvmmuv6pq@4ax.com>
	<uNM5f.153113$RW.59193@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.20.13.46.50.253609@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<XyU5f.5227$tV6.3045@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <q54jl1t5j1leo5brfkbm58riiejqdf250m@4ax.com>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:07:51 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
<mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote or quoted :

>his status 
>as employee gives him no additional rights or responsibilities in this 
>respect.

It may not be so in law, but I think most moral codes put more onus on
the employee than the average citizen.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 12:06:47 2005
From: no.mail.here.at.here at gmail.com (mike)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 09:06:47 -0700
Subject: os.access with wildcards
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1701.1128699868.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128665933.923295.95580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1128698336.836590.96080@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1701.1128699868.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128701207.675536.126370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

dude, you are the sap that wrote "it's not clear". get a life.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Oct 14 12:20:10 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:20:10 +0200
Subject: getting the path in a cgi script
References: <0001HW.BF759D88004280C3F0284550@news.individual.de>
Message-ID: <diolrt$9iq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Kalle Anke wrote:

> I know I've done this once before ... I think ... but now I can't figure out
> how to do it
>
> I've set my web server to use an alias similar to this
>
>    ScriptAlias /xx/ "/Library/WebServer/CGI-Executables/xxx.cgi/"
>
> which makes it possible for me to write
>
>    http://127.0.0.1/xx/some/kind/of/path
>
> my problem is that I don't know how to get the 'some/kind/of/path' part of
> the URL in my script.
>
> I know that I can do like this in perl
>
>    $documentRoot.path_info();
>
> but how do I do it in python?

import os
path_info = os.environ.get("PATH_INFO")

</F>





From russandheather at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 14:33:25 2005
From: russandheather at gmail.com (Russell Warren)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 11:33:25 -0700
Subject: Threads and socket.setdefaulttimeout
References: <1128030031.130958.185620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1238.1128067318.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129142005.610543.212180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

It appears that the timeout setting is contained within a process
(thanks for the confirmation), but I've realized that the function
doesn't play friendly with threads.  If I have multiple threads using
sockets and one (or more) is using timeouts, one thread affects the
other and you get unpredictable behavior sometimes.  I included a short
script at the end of this that demonstrates the threading problem.

I'm trying to get around this by forcing all locations that want to set
a timeout to use a 'safe' call immediately prior to socket creation
that locks out setting the timeout again until the lock is released.
Something like this:

try:
  SafeSetSocketTimeout(Timeout_s)
  #lock currently acquired to prevent other threads sneaking in here
  CreateSocket()
finally:
  ReleaseSocketTimeoutSettingLock()
UseSocket()

However - this is getting increasingly painful because I don't have
easy access to all of the socket creations where I'd like to do this.
The biggest pain right now is that I'm using xmlrpclib which has some
seriously/frustratingly heavy use of __ prefixes that makes getting
inside to do this at socket creation near impossible (at least I think
so).  Right now the best I can do is surround the xmlrpclib calls with
this (effectively putting the lock release after the UseSocket), but
then other threads get hung up for the duration of the call or timeout,
rather than just the simple socket creation.

It would be nice if the timeout were implemented as an argument in the
socket constructor rather than having this global method.  Is there a
reason for this?  I tried sifting through the cvs source and got lost -
couldn't even find the call definition for socket(family, type, proto)
and gave up...

Does anybody have any idea of another way to do what I need (indpendent
socket timeouts per thread), or have suggestions on how to break into
xmlrpclib (actually down into httplib) to do the methdo I was trying?

Related question: Is there some global way that I'm unaware of to make
it so that some few lines of code are atomic/uninterruptable and no
other thread can sneak in between?

All suggestions appreciated!  Hopefully I'm just missing something
obvious.

Russ

#--- This script confirms that settimeout's affect is across threads
import threading, xmlrpclib, socket

def st():
  socket.setdefaulttimeout(0.1)

try:
  proxy = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:10000")
  print proxy.NonExistentCallThatShouldTimeout()
except Exception, E:  print "Exception caught: %s" % (E,)

cbThread = threading.Thread(target = st)
cbThread.start()

try:
  print proxy.NonExistentCallThatShouldTimeout()
except Exception, E:  print "Exception caught: %s" % (E,)

#Output is:
#Exception caught: (10061, 'Connection refused')
#Exception caught: timed out



From eternalsquire at comcast.net  Mon Oct 17 02:40:49 2005
From: eternalsquire at comcast.net (The Eternal Squire)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 23:40:49 -0700
Subject: can a cut-down Python still be Python?
Message-ID: <1129531249.605353.204280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

All,

Regardless of the technical difficulties involved (and I know they are
legion), I am considering developing a very limited subset of Python
fit to run on embedded systems using 80188 or 68332 microchips.   My
main question regarding this is:  even if I am successful, would the
results be rejected out of hand by y'all as not meeting the Zen of
Python?

Please advise,

The Eternal Squire



From daniel at bowettsolutions.com  Sat Oct 29 14:48:02 2005
From: daniel at bowettsolutions.com (Daniel Bowett)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:48:02 +0100
Subject: extracting numbers from a file, excluding fixed words
In-Reply-To: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dk0ges$hao$1@sea.gmane.org>

dawenliu wrote:
> Hi, I have a file with this content:
> xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 0
> (many more 1's and 0's to follow)
> yyyyy yyyyyy yyy yyyyyy yyyyy yyy
> 
> The x's and y's are FIXED and known words which I will ignore, such as
> "This is the start of the file" and "This is the end of the file".  The
> digits 1 and 0 have UNKNOWN length.  I want to extract the digits and
> store them in a file.  Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 

Open the file and read each line 1 at a time. If the line doesn't equal 
x or y then add the line to a list

f = open("file.txt")

numbers = []

for eachline in f.xreadlines():
	if (eachline <> x) or (eachline <> y):
		numbers.append(eachline)



From free.condiments at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 19:04:15 2005
From: free.condiments at gmail.com (Sam Pointon)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:04:15 -0700
Subject: Works only in interactive mode
In-Reply-To: <1128978917.143125.68230@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128978917.143125.68230@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128985455.433816.8710@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

That looks like a different module named pcop getting in the way. If
there's another pcop.py in the directory where you're running it as a
script, then that gets priority and you'll end up with an error like
the one you got. However, if you run it interactively, then that
directory is not checked, or is (normally) checked lower-down than,
say, Python's standard library. Try checking if help(pcop) and
dir(pcop) are what you expect in the script, and looking at where
sys.path is looking for scripts.



From joe at invalid.address  Tue Oct 18 13:34:18 2005
From: joe at invalid.address (joe at invalid.address)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 12:34:18 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
Message-ID: <m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address>

"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne at attglobal.net> writes:

> Michael Heiming wrote:
> > Let's not forget about the Internet, they invented together with
> > Al Gore and of course the wheel!
> 
> No fair picking on Al Gore. All he ever claimed was that he was the
> Congressional point man for the "Information Superhighway", which he
> was.

Well, what he said was

  "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
   initiative in creating the Internet."

What you say he did is what he actually did, but what he said gives a
different impression. I don't think he's careless or stupid, so I
think he said that in order to create the impression in the minds of
the people listening to the interview that he's responsible for the
internet. 

That's just what politicians do, regardless of party affiliation.

joe
-- 
Gort, klatu barada nikto


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 31 14:59:34 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:59:34 GMT
Subject: frozenset/subclassing/keyword args
References: <piu9f.10090$bD.7522@trndny01>
Message-ID: <43667401.1468809015@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:31:33 GMT, "Mark E. Fenner" <Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>I was migrating some code from sets.ImmutableSet to frozenset and noticed
>the following:
>
>******code********
>#!/usr/bin/env python
>
>from sets import ImmutableSet
>
>
>class MSet1(ImmutableSet):
>    def __init__(self, iterArg, myName="foo"):
>        ImmutableSet.__init__(self, iterArg)
>        self.name = myName
>
>        
>class MSet2(frozenset):
>    def __init__(self, iterArg, myName="foo"):
>        frozenset.__init__(self, iterArg)
>        self.name = myName
>
>
>m1 = MSet1([1,2,3], myName = "donkey")
>print m1
>print m1.name
>
>m2 = MSet2([1,2,3], myName = "kong")
>print m2
>print m2.name
>*********end code**********
>
>*********run**********
>MSet1([1, 2, 3])
>donkey
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./setTest.py", line 22, in ?
>    m2 = MSet2([1,2,3], myName = "kong")
>TypeError: frozenset() does not take keyword arguments
>*********end run********
>
>I'm missing something and couldn't find it in the docs.

Without researching it, I would guess that you have to override __new__
so as not to pass through the myName arg to the otherwise inherited and
called-with-all-arguments __new__ of the base class. You could take care
of the myName arg in the __new__ method too (by temporarily binding the
instance returned by frozenset.__new__ and assigning the name attribute
before returning the instance), or you can define __init__ to do that part.
See many various posted examples of subclassing immutable types.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rvtol+news at isolution.nl  Mon Oct 17 07:50:47 2005
From: rvtol+news at isolution.nl (Dr.Ruud)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:50:47 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: split a file full path
References: <1129514458.420045.75670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dj0aan.ac.1@news.isolution.nl>

Xah Lee:

> In Perl, spliting a full path into parts is done like this:

And then follows Perl-code that only works with an optional .html
"extension",
which is similar to the code in the File::Basename description.
http://www.perl.com/doc/manual/html/lib/File/Basename.html


It is best practice to derive and store the normalized (or absolute)
path, because relative paths can get loose so will get loose.


Consider this:

  $myPath = './example/basename.ext';


and this:

  $myPath = './example/filename.1.23.45-beta';


and this:

  $myPath = 'x:.\example\basename.ext';


(some platforms have a wd per device)


-- 
Affijn, Ruud

"Gewoon is een tijger."



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination  Wed Oct 26 06:26:12 2005
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.com.imagination (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:26:12 +0200
Subject: assignment to reference
References: <djnkrg$26d$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrndluma3.cle.sybrenUSE@schuimige.unrealtower.org>

Loris Caren enlightened us with:
> If
>
> a = 'apple'
> b = 'banana'
> c = 'cabbage'
>
> How can I get something like:-
>
> for i in 'abc':
>     r = eval(i)    
>     if r == 'cabbage': r = 'coconut'
>
> actually change the object referenced by r rather
> than creating a new object temporarily referenced by it?

Use:

x = {
    'a': 'apple',
    'b': 'banana',
    'c': 'cabbage'
}

for key, value in x.iteritems():
    if value == 'cabbage':
        x[key] = 'coconut'

NOTE: I haven't tested this code

> I've tried playing with eval and exec without the desired effect.

If you notice yourself using such functions, it's ususally a lot
better to simply stash your data in a dictionary, and use that
instead.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
                                             Frank Zappa


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 03:40:56 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 02:40:56 -0500
Subject: non descriptive error
In-Reply-To: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
References: <4346002C.3080504@open-networks.net>
Message-ID: <200510070240.56350.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Thursday 06 October 2005 11:57 pm, Timothy Smith wrote:
> i try to run my app and i get this
> 
> %python DutyShift.py
> error
> 
> thats it. thats the error. mya pp was previously working, and i did make 
> some fairly large changes to it, but i'd expect a more descriptive 
> message then just "error". anyidea where i need to start looking?

By looking at the source code for DutyShift.py?

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Tue Oct 18 22:55:23 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:55:23 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<t3k623-c5c.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<11l48meji6u4e69@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.10.56.58.339563@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<l9p923-eqi.ln1@news.heiming.de> <2X95f.14513$vV4.3483@fe08.lga>
	<m3oe5mbug5.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <28dbl1p8iq581iklr87d0ugre9q3lgitvl@4ax.com>

On 18 Oct 2005 12:34:18 -0500, joe at invalid.address wrote or quoted :

>
>  "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
>   initiative in creating the Internet."

He did just that. Think about it.  Without Gore, the Internet would
never have been delayed perhaps indefinitely.  Without any of he
technical people, someone else would have done the same work. Even the
guys who did the low level protocols credit Gore.

Your forget how much abuse folk like you heaped on Gore when he was
pushing the "information super highway" as it was known back then.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 10:35:12 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:35:12 -0700
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ek65kbw5.fsf@lucien.dreaming>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.54.734473@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<h1p7m1lk8pifmc61lvhsipj6gkbiavhldq@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.29.22.49.02.45985@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<1h57cu1.1jywbjibu87obN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2005.10.30.09.02.27.88280@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1h58jkz.1byi9q5qwo1owN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
   ...
> > Don't ever catch and ``handle'' exceptions in such ways.  In particular,
> > each time you're thinking of writing a bare 'except:' clause, think
> > again, and you'll most likely find a much better approach.
> 
> What would you -- or anyone else -- recommend as a better approach?

That depends on your application, and what you're trying to accomplish
at this point.


> Is there a canonical list somewhere that states every possible exception
> from a file open or close?

No.  But if you get a totally unexpected exception, something that shows
the world has gone crazy and most likely any further action you perform
would run the risk of damaging the user's persistent data since the
macchine appears to be careening wildly out of control... WHY would you
want to perform any further action?  Crashing and burning (ideally
leaving as detailed a core-dump as feasible for later post-mortem)
appears to be preferable.  (Detailed information for post-mortem
purposes is best dumped in a sys.excepthook handler, since wild
unexpected exceptions may occur anywhere and it's impractical to pepper
your application code with bare except clauses for such purposes).

Obviously, if your program is so life-crucial that it cannot be missing
for a long period of time, you will have separately set up a "hot spare"
system, ready to take over at the behest of a separate monitor program
as soon as your program develops problems of such magnitude (a
"heartbeat" system helps with monitoring).  You do need redundant
hardware for that, since the root cause of unexpected problems may well
be in a hardware fault -- the disk has crashed, a memory chip just
melted, the CPU's on strike, locusts...!  Not stuff any program can do
much about in the short term, except by switching to a different
machine.


Alex



From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Wed Oct 19 06:08:43 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:08:43 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com> <divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <vm6cl19r7j3r6b4o73d5m3ab2bmih2v3j6@4ax.com>

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 01:54:14 -0700, "David Schwartz"
<davids at webmaster.com> wrote or quoted :

>    They have obligations to their clients because (and only because) 
>failure to provide the services they contract to provide will result in 
>lawsuits and harm to the shareholders. All other obligations come from the 
>harm these failures will do to the shareholders. 

That's the view of Republican, but it is not the only view.  Some
might say the law trumps that. It does not matter if breaking the law
would be more profitable, you still don't do it.
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 23 14:41:14 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:14 +0200
Subject: Localized strftime()
References: <cd329af80510231124g14e8e35ey@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <djglge$6rq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Sebastjan Trepca wrote:

> I'm trying to get a localized date format from strftime() but it seems
> that is doesn't have any parameters for that or any information about
> this issue in Python docs.
>
> For example I want to turn this:
> 19 Oct, 2005
> to this(slovene language):
> 19 Okt, 2005

you must call locale.setlocale first, to switch from the default C
locale to a locale of your choice.

    http://docs.python.org/lib/module-locale.html

>>> import time
>>> print time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S")
Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:38:56
>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, "sv_SE") # swedish
'sv_SE'
>>> print time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S")
s?n, 23 okt 2005 20:39:15
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, "sl_SI")
'sl_SI'
>>> print time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S")
ned, 23 okt 2005 20:39:32

</F>





From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 20 13:43:02 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:43:02 -0000
Subject: need some advice on x y plot
References: <1129823043.104864.73750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<11lfgebn85liq1b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1129825379.218308.242010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <11lflp6e7godi29@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-20, nephish at xit.net <nephish at xit.net> wrote:

> i have tried to use unix timestamps,

That has always worked for me.  What happened?

> and i have also tried with DateTime objects

Never tried that.

> do i need to use a scale that isn't linear (default in most) ?

No.

> how do i putt this off ?

Huh?

Gnuplot by default does exactly what you seem to want if you
just pass it x,y values.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I always liked FLAG
                                  at               DAY!!
                               visi.com            


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Oct 25 04:26:10 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:26:10 +0200
Subject: [OT] Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <435cbbd6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<4358d9f6$0$19694$626a14ce@news.free.fr> <43593468$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<435c9906$0$14034$636a15ce@news.free.fr> <435cbbd6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <435dec24$0$652$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> bruno modulix wrote:
> 
>> Scott David Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> bruno modulix wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... Another language that failed to make it to the mainstream but is
>>>> worth giving a try is Smalltalk - the father of OOPLs (Simula being the
>>>> GrandFather). 
>>>
>>> I would say Simula is the forefather of modern OOPLs, and Smalltalk is
>>> the toofather.
>>
>> Err... I'm afraid I don't understand this last word (and google have not
>> been of much help here)
> 
> 
> Sorry, I was being too cute by half.

tss...

>  If Simula is the fore father
> (4 away) then Smalltalk is half as far (2) away.  Hence the "toofather."
> "Toofather" by analogy with the homophones "fore" and "four" we use the
> homophones "two" and "too".

My my my...

-- 
bruno desthuilliers
ruby -e "print 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@').collect{|p|
p.split('.').collect{|w| w.reverse}.join('.')}.join('@')"


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 12:45:39 2005
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:45:39 +0100
Subject: slots? SLOTS?
In-Reply-To: <3r4s3cFhndjpU1@individual.net>
References: <3r4s3cFhndjpU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60510120945q6affa930u@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/10/05, tin gherdanarra <tinman31337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> what is a "slot" in python?

<http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/slots.html>

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon at brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 17 12:51:40 2005
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:51:40 -0700
Subject: tuple versus list
References: <1129460775.484350.209520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129475300.537237.131090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2141.1129493153.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-317D8D.09514017102005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.2141.1129493153.509.python-list at python.org>,
 Bryan <belred at gmail.com> wrote:

> bonono at gmail.com wrote:
> > In this particular case, it seems that (width,height) looks nicer. But
> > I think otherwise, list constuct is easier to read, even though it is
> > supposed to be slower.
> > 
> > With list you can :
> > [a] + [ x for x in something ]
> > 
> > With tuple it looks like this :
> > (a,) + tuple(x for x in something)
> > 
> > I think the list looks cleaner. And since you cannot concat tuple with
> > list, I think unless it looks obvious and natural(as in your case), use
> > list.
> > 
> 
> 
> i always use the structure analogy.  if you view (width, height) as a 
> structure, 
> use a tuple.  if you view it a sequence, use a list.  in this example, i view 
> it 
> as a stucture, so i would use (width, height) as a tuple.

Right, but there's an unfortunate ambiguity in the term "sequence",
since in Python it is defined to include tuple.  I gather you meant
more in the abstract sense of a data collection whose interesting
properties are of a sequential nature, as opposed to the way we are
typically more interested in positional access to a tuple.  Maybe
a more computer literate reader will have a better word for this,
that doesn't collide with Python terminology.  My semi-formal
operational definition is "a is similar to a[x:y], where
x is not 0 or y is not -1, and `similar' means `could be a legal
value in the same context.'"

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From http  Thu Oct 27 04:17:40 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 01:17:40 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpplt$t5t$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xbr1b74rf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>     But there is no law against that type of conduct, *unless* you are a 
> monopolist. So your conclusion hinges on the determination that Microsoft 
> had a monopoly, and that hinges on the definition of the "market". That's a 
> different can of worms for a different part of this thread.

The trial court determined and two different appeals courts upheld
that MS had an illegal monopoly.  I think they have more experience
and knowledge of these things than you do.  MS's illegal monopoly
is an established legal fact regardless of your irrelevant opinion.



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:50:12 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:50:12 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

> That's UP TO THE FRIGGING STORE (in contrast to the MS situation).

    No, it's not up to the store. In all the cases I mentioned, it's the 
manufacturer of the product that imposes the restrictions and the 
manufacturer of the product is not the store owner.

>> I don't know why you think
>> that's an attempt to subvert market economics,

> Because "it is".

    Then every franchise on the planet and every company that sells 
wholesale only to "authorized resellers" and has non-compete in their 
authorization terms, is subverting the market.

>> it's actually just a normal
>> part of the way the market works.
>
> No it isn't.

    Yes, it is.

> I think I'll just plonk you. Absurd and outlandish statements like
> that put you beyond the pale. The law has spoken on the matter - the
> courts have judged, and "that is illegal" and "that is a monopoly"
> and "that is an illegal  trade practice" are its judgments.

    I defy you to find any court that has ruled this practice illegal for a 
company that does not have a monopoly. Because if they did, I'm going after 
Doctor's Associates and Kenmore.

    What do you have to agree to in order to get OSX wholesale for resale? 
What about Solaris?

    DS




From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 29 01:33:37 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:33:37 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message 
> news:86oe59e57v.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message
>>> news:86zmoufiww.fsf at bhuda.mired.org...
>> Maybe true, maybe not - but it doesn't matter. The point is that you
>> respond to *every* comparison of MS with other criminals as a
>> comparison to "criminals with guns", and then refuse to discuss the
>> issue, with utter disregard as to what the other person said. That you
>> might be right in one case is irrelevant - we're talking about a
>> pattern of behavior.
>     That is not true. I make a serious distinction between crimes that 
> involve the use of force and crimes that don't. Microsoft was convicted of 
> crimes that do *not* involve use of force. I am trying very hard to make 
> sure that distinction is preserved.

Except you treat *every* mention of any crime other than abuse of
monopoly power as a crime that involves the use of force - whether it
does or not. In the example I quoted, you did it with "theft" -
without reference to how the theft happened. There are lots of forms
of theft that don't involve use of force - abuse of monopoly power is
one of them, but so is embezzlement. Yet you accused me of equating
arguments with guns.

>> I'm still waiting for you to come up with an explanation for the
>> pattern of your behavior other than that you're taking orders from
>> MS. But I expect yout to deny that it exists.
>     The pattern of my behavior is that it is vital to me to preserve the 
> distinction between force and non-force.

If it that vital, then you need to make the distinction yourself, and
quit treating *any* crime not committed by MS as if it involved the
use of force.

> Guns and arguments represent two 
> fundamentally different categories of human behavior. And I reject the moral 
> claim that it is okay to respond to arguments with guns.

Oh, we know you reject it. You never miss an opportunity to say so -
even if it's not at all relevant.

As predicted, you denied the truth of what I said, then provided an
excuse for a behavior that you don't follow. So we're still waiting
for an explanation for your actual behavior other than your being a
shill for MS.

> Microsoft's behavior consisted of arguments, that is, did not
> involve force, the threat of force, fraud, or the threat of
> fraud. This is perhaps the most vital distinction that there is.

Wrong. Either your definition of force is to narrow, or you're wrong
that it's the distinction is even vaguely vital. If I convince
everyone who might make food available to you not to do so - for
example, by paying them more than their interaction with you is worth
to them, I can starve you to death. I'd say I've used force against
you - an economic force. This is the kind of force that MS wields
illegally. I'm willing to admit this isn't a usual definition of
force, and won't argue if you want to say that it isn't force. But in
that case, the fact that I didn't use "force" against you is
irrelevant to you - you're just as dead.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From riplin at Azonic.co.nz  Sun Oct 16 15:30:06 2005
From: riplin at Azonic.co.nz (riplin at Azonic.co.nz)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 12:30:06 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F16200ED24Acastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <1129491006.021102.43920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


John Bokma wrote:

> No: the historical fact is that MS whiped Netscape of the planet.

By giving IE away for free, by ripping off spyglass, by _paying_ OEMs
to not include Netscape. By bundling IE. By abusing standards. By
contracting with sites to include non-standard IE features to
deliberately break NS.

If an OEM was shipping Netscape on machines MS paid them $5 a copy not
to.

> That
> you come up with "They were afraid that everybody would be running NS
> Office online using Netscape" is just a guess.

No. Netscape had announced that they were working on building network
applications that just required a browser. XUL is the latest version of
this.

> MS just seems to ignore a certain development for some time, then state
> it's not significant, and next they are an important player. This is not
> limited to "MS missed the Internet, almost...". They don't miss
> anything, they just don't jump on every hype.

No. You are wrong again. In edition 1 of "The Way Ahead" there was _no_
mention of the Internet. MS did not notice it, and when they did they
attempted to replace it with MSN which did not link to the internet
initially. MSN was free with Win95, but most users ignored it and
downloaded Netscape.

> and next they are an important player

Once they notice that there is a revenue stream then they will buy in a
product, rebrand it MS and claim it is the best, and use their monopoly
leverage to drive the other players out of business so that they can
have all the revenue.

The only reason that Linux/OpenOffice/GIMP/Apachee/MySQL/.. have
survived this process is that MS haven't worked out how to kill them
off.  Natural selection at work. If MS kills off everything that it can
then what is left is what it can't.



From dimitri.pater at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 18:50:53 2005
From: dimitri.pater at gmail.com (dimitri pater)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:50:53 +0200
Subject: Fund raising for SPE (Python IDE) on Mac Os X is great success!!
In-Reply-To: <1129837084.074460.51840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129837084.074460.51840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e75321bd0510201550t46d56ee0pbd93bb1c34d23b21@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Stani,
It is good to hear that the donation was a success. And you deserve it, your
contribution to the Python community is an example fot others and I am
convinced that every donation, be it large or small, is well spent!
A lot of us use SPE, don't we?

greetz,
Dimitri

On 20 Oct 2005 12:38:04 -0700, SPE - Stani's Python Editor <
spe.stani.be at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to thank everyone who contributed, especially Richard Brown
> from Dartware and Rick Thomas. I'm highly impressed that the smallest
> user base of SPE collected the largest donation ever to SPE. Now it's
> my turn to impress the SPE Mac users.
>
> As such the light is green for SPE on the Mac. First I will buy a Mac
> and get used to it. Then I will optimize SPE for the Mac and try to
> release simultaneously. Be patient as this will take some time. The
> next releases (0.7) will be based on work I did before. But from 0.8
> releases SPE will also be tested & developed on Mac.
>
> Please subscribe to the mailing list as a developer, user and/or mac
> user. Of course donations are still welcome.
>
> Stani
>
> http://pythonide.stani.be
> http://pythonide.stani.be/manual/html/manual.html
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



--
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the
basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more
stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the
universe."
-Frank Zappa
-----
Please visit dimitri's website: www.serpia.com <http://www.serpia.com>
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From tuvas21 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 00:20:15 2005
From: tuvas21 at gmail.com (Tuvas)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 21:20:15 -0700
Subject: Mutual module imports
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-B5E898.23113017102005@news.verizon.net>
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-B5E898.23113017102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1129609215.608627.131910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

The trick is via something called Extending. Pyrex just makes extending
a bit easier, but, depending on the complexity of the function, it
might be easier just to extend it yourself. Basically you make a
function that translates python into C. There are some instructions on
the Python website, http://www.python.org . Look around, and you'll
find lots of cool stuff on it.



From roy at panix.com  Fri Oct  7 06:01:00 2005
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:01:00 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1662.1128671430.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr7ax690j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128676408.129888.297840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-615D28.06010007102005@reader1.panix.com>

"Ben Sizer" <kylotan at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's started to get very misleading - Python gives you plenty of
> type-checking, as we all know, just not at compile-time.

There's more to it than just that.  Python's type checking is not just not 
done at compile time, it's done as late in run time as possible.  One might 
call it just-in-time type checking.

It's not hard to imagine a Python-like language which included (perhaps 
optional) variable declarations.  A declaration would essentially be an 
assertion which was checked after each assignment to that name.  So, you 
could write:

int i = 5
i = 5.6

and the second statement would throw TypeError.  This would give you 
C++/Java style type safety, but it still wouldn't be compile time.

Perhaps a better way to describe it is that the checking isn't an is-a 
assertion, but an acts-like assertion (sort of like Java's interfaces).  To 
take an example, in the function:

def first3(y):
    if len(y) < 3:
         return y
    return y[0:3]

all I really need from the argument is that I can call len() on it and it 
can be sliced.  An easy way to describe this would be to say that y must be 
a sequence, but that's not strictly accurate, since I can easily declare my 
own class which meets those requirements without being a subclass of 
sequence (even ignoring for the moment that 'sequence', while talked about 
in the documentation, doesn't actually exist as something you can subclass).


From mline at abilitec.com  Thu Oct 20 12:02:03 2005
From: mline at abilitec.com (Mark Line)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:02:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Searching for txt file and importing to ms access
Message-ID: <dj8f1r$do7$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

Hello!



I'm a python n00b!



I've been writing in c++ for a few years so programming's not new to me, 
just python that I don't know the syntax!



What I'm trying to do is get an email from an pop3 account, and then search 
the email for some CVS data and import that information into MS Access.



I'm managed to get some code to download a message from the email account 
and save it to a text file, does any one have a link to some sample code to 
search though a file until a string of characters is matched?  Or could 
point me to some functions that may help me with this?



I've also managed to connect to my access database, and just print out a 
field in a table, but I cant find anywhere on the web that will help me to 
import data?  Any help would be great?!



By the way I'm running on windows, and have installed the windows add on's.



Thanks in advance

Mark



email code



import sys, poplib


f = open('c:\\myfile.txt', 'w')

mailserver = 'pop3.abilitec.com'
mailuser   = 'bookings at pop3.abilitec.com'
mailpasswd = '***********'



print 'Connecting...'
server = poplib.POP3(mailserver)
server.user(mailuser)                      # connect, login to mail server
server.pass_(mailpasswd)                   # pass is a reserved word

try:
    print server.getwelcome()              # print returned greeting message
    msgCount, msgBytes = server.stat()
    print 'There are', msgCount, 'mail messages in', msgBytes, 'bytes'
    print server.list()
    print '-'*80

    for i in range(msgCount):
        hdr, message, octets = server.retr(i+1)    # octets is byte count
        for line in message:
                                                     # retrieve, print all 
mail
            f.write(line)
            f.write('\n')
        print '-'*80                               # mail box locked till 
quit
        if i < msgCount - 1:
           raw_input('[Press Enter key]')
finally:                                           # make sure we unlock 
mbox
    server.quit()                                  # else locked till 
timeout
print 'Bye.'

f.close()





access



import sys, win32com.client

print 'start'

connection = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Connection')
DSN = 'PROVIDER=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;DATA 
SOURCE=c:\\booking.mdb;/root/blackcomb'
connection.Open(DSN)
recordset = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Recordset')
recordset.Open('SELECT * FROM tblBooking', connection, 1, 3)
fields_dict = {}
for x in range(recordset.Fields.Count):
    fields_dict[x] = recordset.Fields.Item(x).Name
    print fields_dict[x], recordset.Fields.Item(x).Value

print 'end'









From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 26 09:22:21 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:22:21 -0400
Subject: Double replace or single re.sub?
References: <1130322073.666179.49350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86vezk1khe.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"Iain King" <iainking at gmail.com> writes:

> I have some code that converts html into xhtml.  For example, convert
> all <i> tags into <em>.  Right now I need to do to string.replace calls
> for every tag:
>
> html = html.replace('<i>','<em>')
> html = html.replace('</i>','</em>')
>
> I can change this to a single call to re.sub:
>
> html = re.sub('<([/]*)i>', r'<\1em>', html)
>
> Would this be a quicker/better way of doing it?

Maybe. You could measure it and see. But neither will work in the face
of attributes or whitespace in the tag.

If you're going to parse [X]HTML, you really should use tools that are
designed for the job. If you have well-formed HTML, you can use the
htmllib parser in the standard library. If you have the usual crap one
finds on the web, I recommend BeautifulSoup.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From http  Thu Oct 27 01:26:59 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 22:26:59 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <okh133-n3l.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djl653$7n8$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net>
	<djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xwtjz3jc9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djpf23$pbj$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <7xwtjzcyxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> > So, your observations about Burger King are irrelevant to Microsoft.
> 
>     Because the error I'm correcting is the belief that Microsoft's conduct 
> was extremely unusual (unlike anything any reputable company had ever done, 
> essentially).

MS's monopolistic conduct was uncommon, but not so extremely unusual
as to be unheard of.  Congress had indeed seen conduct like that
before, which is why it saw the need for passing laws against it.


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Sat Oct  1 03:05:57 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 07:05:57 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
Message-ID: <pzq%e.123$_%3.29184@newshog.newsread.com>

Sam wrote:
> And "foo if bar" is Perl-ish; yet, even Perl has the ? : operators.

What _isn't_ Perl-ish?


From kaiser.vocote at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 05:07:33 2005
From: kaiser.vocote at gmail.com (Andreas Kaiser)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 02:07:33 -0800
Subject: tachometer diagram
Message-ID: <1130753253.564379.63190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'am searching for a python solution for display a tachometer diagram.
I prefer a solution for wxPython.
The plot libraries I've found do not implement this diagram type.
Any hints welcome!

Thanks
Andreas



From dcrespo at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 11:51:36 2005
From: dcrespo at gmail.com (dcrespo)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:51:36 -0700
Subject: socket.error: (32, 'Broken pipe'): need help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2644.1130427496.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2644.1130427496.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130428296.311975.65080@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

When enabling the server, note that you put '' as the IP, and not
'localhost'.

if you put an ip: '172.16.1.2', your server will listen on that IP (if
it's valid)
if you put '', your server will listen on all IPs defined on that
computer.
of you put 'localhost', it will listen for local connections only.

Maybe that's the problem.



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct  3 07:17:48 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:17:48 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack
References: <dhpem5$nne$1@online.de>
	<mailman.1354.1128285272.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhpk5m$lcu$1@online.de> <dhpn42$q9o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<dhr091$3a1$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <dhr40d$1fo$03$1@news.t-online.com>

g.franzkowiak wrote:

> The dataObject was read from a named pipe as an byte stream
> 
> state, dataObject = win32file.ReadFile(handle, nbytes, None)
> print repr(dataObject)
>  ==> '\x01\x02\x03\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x0.....
> 
> With Frederiks help operates this fine

I do not doubt that. My point was that instead of the suggested

# Fredrik
obj?=?"".join(list(dataObject[:4]))

the simpler

# me
obj = dataObject[:4]

might work as well. I cannot test it here, but judging from 

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.3/pywin32/win32file__ReadFile_meth.html

the resulting dataObject is a buffer and buffer slices seem to be just
strings.

> print repr(dataObject)
>  ==> '\x01\x02\x03\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x0.....

Hmm, that looks as if dataObject were a string -- please post the result of

print type(dataObject)

just to help me restore my peace of mind :-)

Peter



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Oct 26 09:03:47 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?UTF-8?B?R2VyaGFyZCBIw6RyaW5n?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:03:47 +0200
Subject: tool for syntax coloring in html
In-Reply-To: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130330426.059794.282450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <435F7EB3.7010301@ghaering.de>

Xah Lee wrote:
> in some online documentations, for examples:
> 
> http://perldoc.perl.org/perlref.html
> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-17.html
> http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellDemo
> 
> the codes are syntax colored.
> 
> Is there a tool that produce codes in html with syntax coloring?

I use SilverCity and this recipe to produce colored code listings for 
the pysqlite documentation: 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/252170

This is the documentation source:
http://initd.org/svn/pysqlite/pysqlite/trunk/doc/usage-guide.txt

This is the result:
http://initd.org/pub/software/pysqlite/doc/usage-guide.html

HTH,

-- Gerhard



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Thu Oct 27 12:32:57 2005
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 16:32:57 GMT
Subject: Set an environment variable
References: <43573022$0$155$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<1129798724.366618.194650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<opsyx67bunrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<43589205$0$125$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<11lhv31li8sgm0c@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0mu6px.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11lifp8r4kipi5c@corp.supernews.com>
	<868xwmu07g.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<11liivcbmeops4b@corp.supernews.com>
	<opsy44qyjyrqur0o@eb.pragmadev>
	<11lps3jj9a7h62c@corp.supernews.com>
	<1h4zleu.115juj63s01m9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrndlva9e.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<86r7a8hwnp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <slrndm1uhr.2n2.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:04:58 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se> writes:
>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:42:19 -0700, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2005-10-24, Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:
>>>> >> The only think you can export an environment variable to is a
>>>> >> child process
>>>> > Well, you know that, and I know that too. From my experience,
>>>> > many people don't...
>>>> True.  Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
>>>> of what's obvious and what isn't.
>>> This specific issue is identical in Windows, isn't it?  I do not know
>>> any OS which does have the concept of "environment variable" yet lets
>>> such variables be ``exported'' to anything but a child process.
>> AmigaDOS, if I recall correctly. Its "ENV:" drive/namespace is global, and
>> that's its closest thing to Unix environment variables.
>
> AmigaDOS had both global environment variables (using the ENV: device)
> and local environment variables, that worked like the Unix
> version.

As I recalled it, the latter type was shell-local and not accessible to
normal processes ...

> You manipulated them in a similar way in the shell, and they
> had a similar API for programmers: one call with a flag to indicate
> which you wanted.

... but if there were system calls to access them, I must have remembered
incorrecly. Possibly I was too stupid back then to find enviroment variables
very useful ;-)

> Of course, this is now 10+ year old memory, and I may not RC.

I think I remember /you/ though, from the Amiga newsgroups in the early
nineties. And now I feel old -- and offtopic.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From xah at xahlee.org  Tue Oct  4 20:44:02 2005
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 17:44:02 -0700
Subject: check html file size
Message-ID: <1128473042.653989.175990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

would anyone like to translate the following perl script to Python or
Scheme (scsh)?

the file takes a inpath, and report all html files in it above certain
size. (counting inline images)
also print a sorted report of html files and their size.

(a copy of the script is here:
http://xahlee.org/_scripts/check_file_size.pl
)

 Xah
 xah at xahlee.org
? http://xahlee.org/


# perl

# Tue Oct  4 14:36:48 PDT 2005
# given a dir, report all html file's size. (counting inline images)
# XahLee.org

use Data::Dumper;
use File::Find;
use File::Basename;

$inpath = '/Users/t/web/mydirectory/';
$sizeLimit = 800 * 1000;

# $inpath = $ARGV[0]; # should give a full path; else the
$File::Find::dir won't give full path.
while ($inpath =~ m@^(.+)/$@) { $inpath = $1;} # get rid of trailing
slash

die "dir $inpath doesn't exist! $!" unless -e $inpath;


##################################################
# subroutines


# getInlineImg($file_full_path) returns a array that is a list of
inline images. For example, it may return ('xx.jpg','../image.png')
sub getInlineImg ($) { $full_file_name= $_[0];
	@linx =(); open (FF, "<$full_file_name") or die "error: can not open
$full_file_name $!";
	while (<FF>) { @txt_segs = split(m/img/, $_); shift @txt_segs;
		for $lin (@txt_segs) { if ($lin =~ m@ src\s*=\s*\"([^\"]+)\"@i) {
push @linx, $1; }}
	} close FF;
	return @linx;
}

# linkFullPath($dir,$locallink) returns a string that is the full path
to the local link. For example,
linkFullPath('/Users/t/public_html/a/b', '../image/t.png') returns
'Users/t/public_html/a/image/t.png'. The returned result will not
contain double slash or '../' string.
sub linkFullPath($$){ $result=$_[0] . $_[1]; while ($result =~
s@\/\/@\/@) {}; while ($result =~ s@/[^\/]+\/\.\.@@) {}; return
$result;}


# listLocalLinks($html_file_full_path) returns a array where each
element is a full path of local links in the html.
sub listLocalLinks($) {
	my $htmlfile= $_[0];

	my ($name, $dir, $suffix) = fileparse($htmlfile, ('\.html') );
	my @aa = getlinks($htmlfile);
	@aa = grep(!m/\#/, @aa);
  @aa = grep (!m/^mailto:/, @aa);
  @aa = grep (!m/^http:/, @aa);

	my @linkedFiles=();
	foreach my $lix (@aa) { push @linkedFiles, linkFullPath($dir,$lix);}
	return @linkedFiles;
}


# listInlineImg($html_file_full_path) returns a array where each
element is a full path to inline images in the html.
sub listInlineImg($) {
	my $htmlfile= $_[0];

	my ($name, $dir, $suffix) = fileparse($htmlfile, ('\.html') );
	my @aa = getInlineImg($htmlfile);

	my @result=();
	foreach my $ele (@aa) { push @result, linkFullPath($dir,$ele);}
	return @result;
}

##################################################
sub checkLink {
    if (
        -T $File::Find::name
        && $File::Find::name =~ m@\.html$@
    ) {
        $total= -s $File::Find::name;
        @h2 = listInlineImg($File::Find::name);
        for my $ln (@h2) {$total += -s $ln;};
        if ( $total > $sizeLimit) {print "problem: file:
$File::Find::name, size: $total\n";}

        push (@result, [$total, $File::Find::name]);
	};
}

find(\&checkLink, $inpath);

@result = sort { $b->[0] <=> $a->[0]} @result;

print Dumper(\@result);
print "done reporting. (any file above size are printed above.)";

__END__



From Tracy.Beck at Infineon.com  Thu Oct 20 12:47:43 2005
From: Tracy.Beck at Infineon.com (T Beck)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 09:47:43 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>
> > "Peter T. Breuer" <ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote in message
> > news:33sj23-6om.ln1 at news.it.uc3m.es...
>
> >> Not if they abuse a monopoly position in doing so, which is where we
> >> started.
[snip]
> O/ses on PC platforms, as determined by the courts. Thanks to their
> initial agreement with IBM, and subsequent nasty tactics.


So what I'm getting here is, that they abused their monopoly power to
secure their initial deal with IBM.  Which is what made them a
monopoly.  MS didn't have a monopoly before IBM, so what kind of draw
did they have to make IBM sign the paper, except that they were
offering something that IBM wanted, and IBM was willing to pay that
much for it?  Nobody made IBM sign that deal, IBM thought that it
worked out OK for both parties.  As for later deals with OEM
manufacturers, if it's OK for MS to make that deal with IBM, then why
does it suddenly become an "abuse of their power" if they're using the
same business model?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure MS has done plenty of shady stuff, and I'm
sure most every other sucessful company has.  Just because we got a
lawsuit to watch for MS doesn't mean other companies like Sony or IBM
haven't done similar stuff we've never heard of.  I'm just trying to
figure out how offering their contract changed from OK to not OK, based
purely on how well they were doing...

--T Beck



From realgagnon_ at _yahooSpamIsBadSstripunderscore.com  Sat Oct 15 12:43:05 2005
From: realgagnon_ at _yahooSpamIsBadSstripunderscore.com (Real Gagnon)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:43:05 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<mO74f.8726$vD4.549587@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96F0827ADD1F8realhowtowwwrgagnonc@140.99.99.130>

> I'd be VERY surprised if IBM predicted that there would be only 5
> COMPUTERS in *2000* - perhaps you mean 5 *manufacturers* of computers?
> - unless the prediction was made a VERY long time ago. I think you are
> giving a badly-mangled version of something I saw when I worked at
> IBM. 

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." ~ IBM Chairman 
Thomas Watson, 1943.

ref : http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Computers

Bye.
-- 
Real Gagnon  from  Quebec, Canada
* Looking for Java or PB code examples ? Visit Real's How-to  
* http://www.rgagnon.com/howto.html


From howardrh at westerncom.net  Sun Oct  9 13:30:54 2005
From: howardrh at westerncom.net (hrh1818)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 10:30:54 -0700
Subject: New Python book
References: <mailman.1572.1128550286.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128879054.054226.7220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

This book is not a new book. It is an updated version of Magnus's  2002
Practical Python book.


Dick Moores wrote:
> (Sorry, my previous post should not have had "Tutor" in the subject header.)
>
> Magnus Lie Hetland's new book, _Beginning Python: From Novice to
> Professional_ was published by Apress on Sept. 26 (in the U.S.). My copy
> arrived in the mail a couple of days ago. Very much worth a look, IMHO.
> But what do the experts here think?
>
> <http://www.bestbookdeal.com/book/compare/159059519X>
> 
> Dick Moores
> rdm at rcblue.com



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 16:49:22 2005
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:49:22 -0400
Subject: Queue question
In-Reply-To: <1h4knxw.1s6kxw4l9w7yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <1129413036.271162.279880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129419092.954592.59630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1h4knxw.1s6kxw4l9w7yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0510171349w1d8f6dc7y5eb9ace2d6589d2c@mail.gmail.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> ...
> not_empty and not_full are not methods but rather instances of the
> threading.Condition class, which gets waited on and notified
> appropriately.  I'm not entirely sure exactly WHAT one is supposed to do
> with the Condition instances in question (I'm sure there is some design
> intent there, because their names indicate they're public); presumably,
> like for the Lock instance named 'mutex', they can be used in subclasses
> that do particularly fiendish things... but I keep planning not to cover
> them in the 2nd edition of the Nutshell (though there I _will_ cover the
> idea of subclassing Queue to implement queueing disciplines other than
> FIFO without needing to worry about synchronization, which I had skipped
> in the 1st edition).

Last time it was rewritten, I put as much thought into the names of
Queue instance variables as Guido put into them originally:  none. 
They have always "looked like" public names, but I'm at a loss to
think of anythng sane a Queue client or extender could do with them. 
Of course that's why the docs don't mention them.  I suppose an
extender could make good use of `mutex` if they wanted to add an
entirely new method, say:

    def get_and_put_nowait(self, new_item) :
        """Pop existing item, and push new item, atomically [blah blah blah]."""

I don't know of anyone who has done so, though.  I kept the name
`mutex` intact during the last rewrite, but didn't hesitate to get rid
of the former `esema` and `fsema` attributes.  Since no complaints
resulted, it's a pretty safe bet nobody was mucking with esema or
fsema before.


From codecraig at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 10:31:00 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (jas)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 07:31:00 -0700
Subject: DrPython - auto complete
Message-ID: <1130337060.967707.262390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
  I just started to use DrPython and I have installed the
CodeCompletion plugin.  I am using DrPython 161 (on windows) with
wxPython 2.6.1.  Anyhow, when I try something like

x = []
x.

...it pops up "x.filename", "x.prepend" and "x.word".  Shouldn't it
show "x.append", "x.pop", etc?

Just curious if anyone else uses this and has this problem.  Or maybe
the code completion doesn't work like I expect.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Oct  3 06:59:38 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:59:38 +0200
Subject: Unicode charmap decoders slow
In-Reply-To: <*firstname*nlsnews-69AACB.23331402102005@news.verizon.net>
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-69AACB.23331402102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <43410f1b$0$7019$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Tony Nelson wrote:
> Is there a faster way to decode from charmaps to utf-8 than unicode()?

You could try the iconv codec, if your system supports iconv:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python-codecs/practicecodecs/iconv/

Regards,
Martin


From kent37 at tds.net  Mon Oct 31 14:42:43 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:42:43 -0500
Subject: frozenset/subclassing/keyword args
In-Reply-To: <piu9f.10090$bD.7522@trndny01>
References: <piu9f.10090$bD.7522@trndny01>
Message-ID: <43667178$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Mark E. Fenner wrote:
> Speaking of which, in the docs at the bottom of the description of the
> builtin set/frozenset, there is a link to a page describing differences
> between the builtin sets and the sets module sets.  This link is broken
> locally and on the python.org docs.
> Locally, it reads:
> file:///usr/share/doc/python-docs-2.4.2/html/lib/module-comparison-to-builtin-set.html
> 
> While it should read:
> file:///usr/share/doc/python-docs-2.4.2/html/lib/comparison-to-builtin-set.html

A little further down the page it says "See About this document... for information on suggesting changes." If you click the link there it will tell you how to submit a doc bug which is the best way to get this fixed.

Kent


From adsheehan at eircom.net  Fri Oct 21 08:18:14 2005
From: adsheehan at eircom.net (adsheehan at eircom.net)
Date: 21 Oct 2005 05:18:14 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python - Sharing memory among scripts, threads
Message-ID: <1129897094.417949.181120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a multi-threaded C++ software app that embeds Python.

When multi-threading (native system threads) it is possible that
multiple instances of a Python script are active.

I have a requirement to 'share' some data values between these script
instances (e.g. counters, file handles etc).

I notice that 'global' variables are NOT visible or shared among these
script instances.

Does Python offer a solution to this ?

What are my options ?


Thanks for helping.

Alan



From rrr at ronadam.com  Fri Oct 14 17:32:05 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:32:05 GMT
Subject: object inheritance and default values
In-Reply-To: <1129320301.22b6eac21f6406269fe235d5ba702f24@teranews>
References: <q7T3f.14417$ae.3253@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1129320301.22b6eac21f6406269fe235d5ba702f24@teranews>
Message-ID: <ptV3f.147376$xl6.24744@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

George Sakkis wrote:
> "Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm trying to implement simple svg style colored complex objects in
>>tkinter and want to be able to inherit default values from other
>>previously defined objects.
>>
>>I want to something roughly similar to ...
>>
>>    class shape(object):
>>         def __init__(self, **kwds):
>>              # set a bunch of general defaults here.
>>              self.__dict__.update(kwds)
>>def draw(self, x=0, y=0, scale=1.0):
>>              # draw the object
>>
>>    hello = shape(text='hello')
>>    redhello = hello(color='red')
>>    largeredhello = redhello(size=100)
>>    largeredhiya = largeredhello(text='Hiya!')
>>    largeredhiya.draw(c, 20, 50)
>>
>>
>>I think this will need to require __new__ or some other way to do it.
>>But I'm not use how to get this kind of behavior.  Maybe the simplest
>>way is to call a method.
>>
>>    redhello = hello.makenew( color='red' )
> 
> 
> Just name it '__call__' instead of makenew and you have the syntax sugar you want:
> 
>     def __call__(self, **kwds):
>         new = self.__class__(**self.__dict__)
>         new.__dict__.update(kwds)
>         return new
> 
> Personally I would prefer an explicit method name, e.g. 'copy'; hiding the fact that 'shape' is a
> class while the rest are instances is likely to cause more trouble than it's worth.
> 
> George

Just got it to work with __call__ as a matter of fact.  ;-)

     def __call__(self,**kwds):
         for key in self.__dict__:
             if key not in kwds:
                 kwds[key] = self.__dict__[key]
         return shape(**kwds)

The purpose having the objects not call the methods explicityly in this 
case is to simplify the data structure in a way that it doesn't care. 
The point is to create as much consistancy in the data structure as 
possible without having to special case some objects as base objects, 
and some as instances.

     # Triangle
     triangle = shape( obj='regpolygon',
                       points=getrpoly(3),
                       fill='grey',
                       size=75
                       )

     # Text
     text = shape( obj='text', fill='black', size=10 )

     # CAUTION ICON
     caution = group( triangle(x=6, y=5),
                      triangle(fill='yellow'),
                      text( text='!',
                            x=39, y=32, size=35,
                            font='times', style='bold' )
                      )

I can use a shape() in the group exactly like triangle(), or text(). 
They are all the same thing to group. It's just a matter of what the 
defaults are.  This keeps things very simple.  ;-)

Then when it needs to be drawn...

     caution.draw(canvas, x, y, scale)

I still need to work on reusing and nesting groups and having them set 
default values. Maybe I need to make group a sub shape which contains a 
list of shapes, etc...

This is another work it out as I go project. ;-)

Cheers,
    Ron

























From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 15:27:47 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:27:47 -0400
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 06:59:04 +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Declared variables have considerable labour costs, and only marginal
> gains. Since the steps you take to protect against other errors will also
> protect against mistyping variables, declarations of variables is of
> little practical benefit.

As far as I can tell, this is as much hearsay and personal experience
as the alternate claim that not having them costs you lots of
debugging time and errors. If anyone has pointers to real research
into this area (I've heard the TRAK folks did some, but haven't been
able to turn any up), I'd love to hear it.

My gut reaction is that it's a wash. The time taken to declare
variables in well-written code in a well-designed language - meaning
the declarations and use will be close together - isn't all that
great, but neither are the savings.

The other win from declaring variables is that if you compile the code
you can make assumptions about the types of variables and thus save
doing (some of) the type determination at run time. But there are type
inferencing languages and systems - and they've been around since the
70s - that can do that for you without having to declare the
variables, so that doesn't buy you much.

If I'm going to get compiler support for semantic checking like this,
I want it to serious levels. I want function pre/post conditions
checked. I want loop and class invariant checked. I want subsumption
in my inheritance tree. Nuts - I want a complete, well-designed
inheritance tree. Duck typing is great stuff, but if I'm going to be
doing the work to declare everything, I want *everything* that can be
checked checked.

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:56:47 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 08:56:47 -0700
Subject: Popularity of blogging tools used by python programmers
In-Reply-To: <1129823566.831075.73770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2315.1129822429.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129823566.831075.73770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129823807.066283.151990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Uh, no good style to comment myself, sorry. I just found why i could't
see your blog entry. Since i read your message through groups.google.de
i just clicked on the link. Your Google Highlight plugin seems to be
confused about that:

Warning: Unknown modifier '/' in
/var/www/html/wp/wp-content/plugins/google-hilite.php on line 107

Warning: Unknown modifier 'w' in
/var/www/html/wp/wp-content/plugins/google-hilite.php on line 105

Not everybody who comes from google has a search query in his referer ;)



From jussij at zeusedit.com  Tue Oct 25 23:38:11 2005
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (jussij at zeusedit.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 20:38:11 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python interpreter, runtime libs, and crashing
References: <slrndlttsv.t95.panewman@remsun1.ews.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <1130297891.232991.92120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

> It all runs great in the "Debug" configuration, but
> everything gets scary when I switch to "Release".

My suggestion would be to turn on debug information
for the release build.

That would at least let you run the release build inside
the debugger, allowing you to see the call stack of the
offending crash.

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows Programmer's IDE
http://www.zeusedit.com



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 07:06:16 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:49:27 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    I guess I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that
>> Microsoft demanded you pay them per machine you sold under the table
>> in the absence of a written contract that said that? Or are you
>> simply saying that they changed the terms of your agreement when it
>> came up for renewal?

> They were demanding I sell a copy of windows with every machine I
> constructed, whether the customer wanted or not, even if the customer
> had us install some other OS.

    Right I understand that. You could have complied simply by only selling 
computers with Windows preinstalled. In other words, you could have treated 
this the same as a demand for franchise or exclusivity if you had wanted to.

> The threat was that I did not comply, they would put me out of
> business by arranging that my wholesalers would stop selling any MS
> product to me, with veiled threat of even worse strangulation.

    Well shit, how surprising that they wouldn't want to do business with 
you if you broke your agreements with them.

> What I don't think you understand this threat would was just as
> effective in putting he out of business as threatening to sending in
> goons every week to smash my shop to pieces.

    I understand that it is just as effective, but that's not the issue. If 
I'm hungry, a person who refuses to give me a loaf of bread for free may be 
just as effective at killing me as a person who shoots me. But that doesn't 
change the fact that there is no obligation to feed a person and there is an 
obligation not to shoot them.

> I could at least have a chance of legal recourse with the vandals.

    Only because their actions are unreasonable and Microsoft's are not.

> It will be very hard to prosecute MS for their crimes because they
> commit them much the way the Mafia does.

    Right, they send gun-wielding thugs to use force against people. That's 
a lot like refusing to do business with people who won't uphold their 
contractual obligations.

> No one has any paper. Everyone  was terrified of MS and would never
> dream of going public.  I have talked about this publicly many times
> because it always looked as if I were going to die in a few years
> anyway.

    I think you're starting to go off the deep end.

> To put this in perspective, IBM's salespeople made much nastier
> threats in their heyday.  Dick Toewes, head of Inland Natural Gas, was
> in charge of a tender for a new mainframe to do billing.  I was
> working on the Univac bid at the time.  He said that the IBM salesman
> said to him, "We know you have an eight year old little girl.  We know
> she walks along X street every day on her way to school.  It would be
> a terrible thing if somebody hurt her."

    Yep, way off the deep end.

> I wrote a tender for about $1 million in computer equipment for BC
> Hydro gas. There were many bidders hoping to get a foothold in a
> solidly IBM shop.  IBM sent a weird chap to see me, dressed as a
> gangster, talking in a gangster accent, with a strange tic like Dustin
> Hoffman's  Ratso Rizzo in midnight cowboy. He made no specific
> threats, but his act was straight out of Hollywood,"you knows what I
> means" warning me about the "consequences" of picking anything but
> IBM, how I might get the reputation as unreliable..."

> There were the standard tactics on $1 million contracts. Imagine the
> dirty tricks for the big ones. Mind you, back then $1 million was
> serious money, especially when you considered the no-bid followons
> over the years.

    If that kind of thing ever happened (which I seriously doubt), it's 
absolutely reprehensible. I find it almost possible to believe that 
individuals on commission might do this kind of thing with no knowledge of 
their corporate higher ups, or perhaps even that people one level up or so 
might do it if they are also on commission. But I find it almost impossible 
to believe that any major corporation could do this as a policy.

    Of course, the individuals who use actual force or threats of fraud (and 
blacklisting because they didn't buy from you is fraud), deserve to be 
prosecuted and imprisoned.

    Do you have any documentation or evidence to support these claims? Or am 
I supposed to take your word for it? (Honestly, it seems like you're just 
trying to mess with me.)

    DS




From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 16:20:31 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Clint Norton)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 13:20:31 -0700
Subject: how do you pronounce wxpython
In-Reply-To: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128775425.507351.312980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128889231.371101.306620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

2nd one indeed



From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 22 20:19:54 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:19:54 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<1129883505.814349.306860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1129896211.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.10.22.23.44.24.632867@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <86fyqt9j9x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:03:29 +0100, Alex Stapleton wrote:
>> Perl is more like a CISC CPU. There are a million different commands.
>> Python is more RISC like.
>> Line count comparisons = pointless.
>
> Not so.
>
> Every line = more labour for the developer = more cost and time.
> Every line = more places for bugs to exist = more cost and time.

There were studies done in the 70s that showed that programmers
produced the same number of debugged lines of code a day no matter
what language they used. So a language that lets you build the same
program with fewer lines of code will let you build the program in
less time.

> I find it sometimes helps to imagine extreme cases. Suppose somebody comes
> to you and says "Hi, I want you to develop a web scrapping application to
> run on my custom hardware." You look at the project specifications and
> realise that the hardware has no OS, no TCP/IP, no file manager, no
> compiler. So you have to quote the potential customer on writing all these
> layers of software, potentially tens of millions of lines of code.
> Even porting an existing OS to the new hardware is not an insignificant
> job. Think how much time and money it would take.

Then factor in the profits to be reaped from selling the ported
OS/compilers :-).

        <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From reply-and-ask at nospam.thanks  Thu Oct 20 07:16:49 2005
From: reply-and-ask at nospam.thanks (James Buchanan)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:16:49 +1000
Subject: make: circular dependency for Modules/signalmodule.o
References: <4354a3f4$0$28047$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<1129696883.760079.323170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <43577ccd$0$28031$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Neal  Norwitz wrote: 
> I've never heard of this problem.  The Makefile is generated by
> configure so this is possibly a configure issue.  In my (generated)
> Makefile, signalmodule.o is listed in MODOBJS, but not in SIGNAL_OBJS.
> Maybe your signalmodule.o is listed in both?
> 
> Search through the Makefile for signalmodule and see what you can
> find.
> 
> Mine has two long lines for the rules which cause signalmodule.c to be
> compiled.
> 
> Modules/signalmodule.o: $(srcdir)/Modules/signalmodule.c; $(CC)
> $(PY_CFLAGS) -c $(srcdir)/Modules/signalmodule.c -o
> Modules/signalmodule.o
> 
> Modules/signalmodule$(SO):  Modules/signalmodule.o; $(LDSHARED)
> Modules/signalmodule.o -o Modules/signalmodule$(SO)

Hi Neal,

Thanks very much for your tip.  I've been studying makefiles to find out
exactly what all this means.  It may be because the Minix make program
is less capable than gmake.  gmake and other make programs can
obviously handle this.  Configure might have run incorrectly or both
rules are one and the same on Minix, because there is no LDSHARED or
signalmodule$(SO).  Maybe...

Still working on it, but this has narrowed it down for me, so thanks
heaps. :)

James



From g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de  Mon Oct  3 06:14:38 2005
From: g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de (g.franzkowiak)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:14:38 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack
In-Reply-To: <dhpn42$q9o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <dhpem5$nne$1@online.de>
	<mailman.1354.1128285272.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhpk5m$lcu$1@online.de> <dhpn42$q9o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <dhr091$3a1$1@online.de>

Peter Otten schrieb:
> g.franzkowiak wrote:
> 
> 
>>tmpList = list(dataObject)[:4])
>>obj     = tmpList[0]+tmpList[1]+tmpList[2]+tmpList[3].
> 
> 
> Have you tried just
> 
> obj = dataObject[:4]
> 
> without the intermediate list? If that failed, can you tell us the type of
> the dataObject? E. g.
> 
> 
>>>>print type(dataObject)
> 
> <class '__main__.NeitherListNorString'>
> 
> Peter
> 

The dataObject was read from a named pipe as an byte stream

state, dataObject = win32file.ReadFile(handle, nbytes, None)
print repr(dataObject)
 ==> '\x01\x02\x03\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x0.....

With Frederiks help operates this fine

gerd


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Tue Oct 18 19:23:55 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:23:55 -0400
Subject: how best to split into singleton and sequence
References: <mailman.2235.1129675000.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129677836.16d6b1477bf1d9ae9ea8a47c839d33f0@teranews>

"Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

> >>> l = []
> >>> s = 'a|b'
> >>> t, l = s.split('|')
> >>> t
> 'a'
> >>> l
> 'b'
> >>> s = 'a|b|c|d'
> >>> t, l = s.split('|')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: too many values to unpack
> >>>
>
> so, i imagine what is happening is the lhs, t,l, is really
> (t, (l)), i.e. only two items.
>
> so how should i have done this readably and simply?

>>> s = 'a|b|c|d'
>>> l = s.split('|')
>>> t = l.pop(0)

By the way, don't use 'l' as an identifier; it is very close to '1' visually.

George




From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Tue Oct 18 10:57:53 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:57:53 -0500
Subject: Installing Python at Work
References: <1129561955.452114.53290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3rkgrlFjtv2qU1@individual.net>

"Nikola" <tsaparas4life at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1129561955.452114.53290 at g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm currently learning Python for my own use.
> I'm considering installing it on a work laptop, knowing that it is
> non-licensed, distributable software.
>
> However, does it access communication ports?  I know the company checks
> their ports regularly for activity.
>
> I won't be doing anything very serious; I'm just trying out Python,
> learning the basics from 'Learning Python' by O'Reilly.

Are you asking if it is ok to install Python on your company machine or if 
Python does anything that might cause you to get caught doing something the 
company has already said not to do? 




From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 23 14:51:35 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:51:35 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djenfg$r2n$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <djgm3n$k13$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


<axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk> wrote in message 
news:3EI6f.43974$MF6.5922 at fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> In comp.lang.perl.misc David Schwartz <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:
>> "Mike Meyer" <mwm at mired.org> wrote in message

>>> Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
>>> places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
>>> permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
>>> property, only they call it "property tax".

>>    I see you are a totalitarianist or perhaps a communist. If you want to
>> live in America and discuss things that are relevent to America, let me
>> know.

> Why would you say that - Mike Meyer made a point to which you have
> obviously no answer. Or do you deny that his comments on this matter
> of property are true?

    His comments are not applicable to America. They are applicable to a 
country where the government owns the economy.

    No reply is needed to his comments except to point out that they only 
apply to a communist or totalitarian state. We don't have one here, so his 
argument doesn't apply.

    I am not saying "because you are a communist, your argument is wrong". I 
am saying, "because your argument is based upon communist or totalitarian 
premises about the relationship between the government and the economy, it 
does not apply to the United States, and we were talking about the United 
States."

    I really felt that this was obvious, but I guess it wasn't.

    DS




From timr at probo.com  Sun Oct  9 04:25:04 2005
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 08:25:04 GMT
Subject: Using command line args on Windows
References: <1128544715.139551.15960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1604.1128601773.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns96E78BB1647F3duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7pkhk1p02r0h1qjjtb3qk12isf9al7iofm@4ax.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>
>> footnote: if you'd prefer to type "myscript myarg" instead, you might
>> want to check out this tool:
>> 
>>     http://effbot.org/zone/exemaker.htm
>
>or even just do:
>
>    SET PATHEXT=.py;%PATHEXT%
>
>and then "myscript myarg" will work for all scripts on your path without 
>compiling (if you don't set PATHEXT then "myscript.py myarg" will still 
>work, and tab completion means you don't generally need to type the .py for 
>scripts in the current directory). 

The downside to this is that there is a bug in the NT/2K/XP command
interpreter which will prevent redirecting from stdin in that case.  That
is:

C:\Tmp>type x.py
import sys
print sys.stdin.readline()

C:\Tmp>echo 123 | python x.py
123

C:\Tmp>echo 123 | x.py
The process tried to write to a nonexistent pipe.

C:\Tmp>python x.py < x.py
import sys

C:\Tmp>x.py < x.py

C:\Tmp>
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct  1 14:02:17 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:02:17 +0200
Subject: Question about stdin and PATHEXT on Windows XP
Message-ID: <ZcWdnWEnK-sjvd3e4p2dnA@telenor.com>

I got a loop like this:

     while True:
         line = sys.stdin.readline()
         if not line:
             break
         line = line.rstrip()
         log_message(options.channel_name, line)
         print line

this loop will read text if I execute it from a command prompt like this:

dir | python.exe log.py

however, since I've set PATHEXT to contain .PY, I tried this:

dir | log.py

which ended up with the loop just skipping.

Does anyone know how to fix this problem ? Being able to use PATHEXT 
execution (just execute python file directly) and still being able to 
grab stdin? I assume that since there is some magic involved in invoking 
python.exe here, stdin gets munged on the way.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From mscottschilling at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 16:14:15 2005
From: mscottschilling at hotmail.com (Mike Schilling)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:14:15 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<j2g4f.7994$S43.1236771@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<Xns96F0C5CC4C14Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<Vtj4f.2120$D13.70@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F13DB8BC1Ecastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<DLu4f.1308$q%.393@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F1E4E128EA8castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<GSF4f.4440$7h7.386@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F2A7259B695castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<%jV4f.3121$tV6.2659@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F2D562581CAcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<tO%4f.1957$dO2.1152@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
	<Xns96F3DB7684BFcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<vFb5f.3390$q%.768@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns96F395263F33castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <rIc5f.4733$Zv5.1359@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F395263F33castleamber at 130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Now, once more, why are standards" *more valuable* than
>> "recommendations"?
>
> standards are written by internationally recognized independent
> organisations, v.s. everyone can write a recommendation. For you, and
> others this doesn't matter, for others it does. Why do you think Microsoft
> made part of .NET a standard?

Marketing.  It lets them claim that .NET is open and Java is proprietary. 
SOAP, which is also part of their "open" story, is a recommendation.





From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Thu Oct 27 02:11:24 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:11:24 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <3s6l8mFmj3fjU1@individual.net> <djl7j8$8bo$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<lgs133-7ub.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djlue0$gkb$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<0hm233-0ut.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es> <djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<uij533-fbp.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
Message-ID: <epr0m1lq39pvrv2b2c9eslj4vitm55ffkj@4ax.com>

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:28:46 +0200, "Peter T. Breuer"
<ptb at oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>I'm a bit curious about this. If I were a business person, I would
>simply have created two busineses (two accounts, etc.). One business
>sells only machines with MS on and pays the MS tax on all its machines.
>One business sells only machines without MS on and pays the MS tax on
>none of its machines.
>
>What's up with that?

Try the same thing to deal with a Mafia extortion racket.  

We are not talking about legal agreements. We are talking junior Mafia
style enforcement. 

-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.


From jmm-list.AXSPAMGN at sohnen-moe.com  Sat Oct 15 02:20:45 2005
From: jmm-list.AXSPAMGN at sohnen-moe.com (Jim Moe)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:20:45 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aeOdndnXIKMgAs3eRVn-ow@giganews.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> 
>     Question: U.S. Judges are not morons, and quite a few others are
> not morons. They find MS guilty, so it must be true.
> 
> Answer: so did the German population thought Jews are morons by
> heritage, to the point that Jews should be exterminated from earth.
> Apparently, the entire German population cannot be morons, they must be
> right.
> 
   Extremely lame.

-- 
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)


From mwilliams at mgreg.com  Sat Oct 22 17:23:23 2005
From: mwilliams at mgreg.com (Michael Williams)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:23:23 -0400
Subject: PID and/or handle assistance. . .?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6851.1130001398.508.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6851.1130001398.508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9D1F0446-AEC1-4F77-A9F6-0EA57E574900@mgreg.com>


On Oct 22, 2005, at 1:16 PM, python-list-request at python.org wrote:

> Michael Williams wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> Can anyone explain how to both spawn processes from PYTHON and   
>> acquire their process IDs or a handle to them for use later?  I'd   
>> also like to acquire the stdout of each spawned process.
>>
>
> Google dead today? Well, check out the modules subprocess, popen2  
> and os.
>
> Regards,
>
> Diez
>


No, Google certainly isn't dead.  I simply figured I'd ask those in  
the know instead of mindlessly meandering the web.  Anyway, I've  
checked out the OS module and although I can find examples of  
say .fork, and .popen, they aren't extremely informative or  
straightforward.  Any other ideas/examples?

Regards
-------------- next part --------------
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From dan at wolf.com  Wed Oct 26 15:38:33 2005
From: dan at wolf.com (Dan M)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:38:33 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3.4, Berkeley db 1.85, db file format not recognized
References: <pan.2005.10.26.18.07.26.892076@wolf.com>
	<mailman.2620.1130354635.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.26.19.38.31.516789@wolf.com>

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:23:49 -0500, skip wrote:

> 
>     Dan> import bsddb
>     Dan> bsddb.hashopen("access.db")
> 
>     Dan> but I get:
>     Dan> bsddb._db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- access.db: unexpected file type or format')
> 
>     Dan> .... Any suggestions on how to read this file?
>  
> See if the bsddb185 module  is available:

It is, and it works. Thanks so much!



From sutram at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 23:36:47 2005
From: sutram at gmail.com (Mahesh Padmanabhan)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:36:47 -0600
Subject: Perl's documentation come of age
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1125179974.483320.116780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127299284.748225.68560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <sutram-DB291F.21364705102005@sea.gmane.org>

In article <1127299284.748225.68560 at g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
 "Xah Lee" <xah at xahlee.org> wrote:

<snip lot of drivel>

While I don't like to feed the trolls, I do find his posts amusing. He 
is like a spoilt child seeking attention.



From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct  5 07:10:58 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:10:58 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4c5b.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<WAz0f.131890$xl6.21892@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<slrndk71mu.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <6xO0f.166857$p_1.72982@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2005-10-04, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
> 
>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>>Op 2005-10-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>>>
>>>>And lo, one multi-billion dollar Mars lander starts braking either too
>>>>early or too late. Result: a new crater on Mars, named after the NASA
>>>>employee who thought the compiler would catch errors.
>>>
>>>
>>>Using (unit)tests will not guarantee that your programs is error free.
>>>
>>>So if sooner or later a (unit)tested program causes a problem, will you
>>>then argue that we should abondon tests, because tests won't catch
>>>all errors.
>>
>>Maybe you need to specify what kind of errors you want to catch. 
>>Different types of errors require different approaches.
> 
> 
> I want to catch all errors of course.

Yes, of course, and so do other programmers.  What I mean is to try and 
break it down into specific instances and then see what the best 
approach is for each one is.

When I first started leaning Python I looked for these features as well, 
but after a while my programming style changed and I don't depend on 
types and names to check my data near as much now.  But instead write 
better organized code and data structures with more explicit value 
checks where I need them.

My concern now is having reusable code and modules I can depend on.  And 
also separating my data and data management operations from the user 
interface.  Having functions and names that don't care what type the 
objects are, makes doing this separation easier.

Another situation where typeless names are useful is routines that 
explicitly check the type, then depending on the type does different 
things.  For example if you have a list with a lot of different type 
objects stored in it, you can sort the contents into sublists by type.

Looking at it from a different direction, how about adding a keyword to 
say,  "from this point on, in this local name space, disallow new 
names".  Then you can do...

def few(x,y):
    a = 'a'
    b = 'b'
    i = j = k = l = None
    no_new_names
    # raise an error after here if a new name is used.
    ...
    for I in range(10):   <--  error
       ...

This is more suitable to Pythons style than declaring types or variables 
I think.  Add to this explicit name-object locking to implement 
constants and I think you would have most of the features you want.

so...

     no_new_names     # limit any new names
     lock_name name   # lock a name to it's current object


Since names are stored in dictionaries,  a dictionary attribute to 
disallow/allow new keys, and a way to set individual elements in a 
dictionary to read only would be needed.  Once you can do that and it 
proves useful, then maybe you can propose it as a language feature.

These might also be checked for in the compile stage and would probably 
be better as it wouldn't cause any slow down in the code or need a new 
dictionary type.

An external checker could possibly work as well if a suitable marker is 
used such as a bare string.

     ...
     x = y = z = None
     "No_New_Names"        # checker looks for this
     ...
     X = y/z               # and reports this as an error
     return x,y

and..

     ...
     Author = "Fred"
     "Name_Lock Author"    # checker sees this...
     ...
     Author = "John"       # then checker catches this
     ...

So there are a number of ways to possibly add these features.

Finding common use cases where these would make a real difference would 
also help.

Cheers,
Ron


From tiang_ono at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 05:11:30 2005
From: tiang_ono at yahoo.com (Titi Anggono)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problem with gnuplot in XP
In-Reply-To: <djoqn3$s0d$1@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20051028091130.43563.qmail@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I made 2 arrays, which are i and uzuy (both are
float). And I want to plot the graph between those
arrays.
 
I followed from the manual

==================

from Gnuplot import Gnuplot, Data

g=Gnuplot()
results=Data(i,uzuy)

g.plot(results) 
=================

here I got the message

============================
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#85>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    g.plot(i,uzuy)
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py",
line 274, in plot
    self.refresh()
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py",
line 215, in refresh
    self(self.plotcmd + ' ' + string.join(plotcmds, ',
'))
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py",
line 199, in __call__
    self.gnuplot(s)
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\gp_win32.py",
line 125, in __call__
    self.write(s + '\n')
IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
======================================

FYI, I use python2.3 and Gnuplot-py-1.7. Any problems
with my code ??

Thanks



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 24 01:44:05 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:44:05 -0400
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232346320.24000@urchin.earth.li>
	<86ll0j7mrh.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<3ppol1pkh4he35r9uaemgldv0ch8n1nln6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86d5lv79lm.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:59:46 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> declaimed
> the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>> Hopefully user defined. Rexx has a global control that lets you set
>> the number of digits to be considered significant in doing an FP
>> equality test.
>> 
> 	That's the good part about the REXX model...
>
> 	The bad part? It's based on the number of significant digits...
> Rather than a true epsilon.

Depends on what you mean by "a true epsilon". If you mean "I want the
two values to differ by at most 10^-5", then number of significant
digits is a better option. If you mean "I want the two values to
differ by at most 1 part in 10^5", then number of significant digits
is a slightly less flexible option.

You really, *really* don't want to specify the acceptable difference
as a fixed value. You want it to be relative to the size of objects
being compared. The latter is what number of significant digits gives
you. The downside is that you're restricted to values that are a power
of 10, and can't specify things like "I want the two values to differ
by at most one part in 34,000" or some such oddity. On the up side,
number of significant digits is (maybe was - been a long time since I
did any serious number crunching) a common form for expressing the
accuracy of a calculation.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Oct 11 22:27:05 2005
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:27:05 -0500
Subject: scipy.plt legend?
References: <1129046539.630460.326290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1910.1129051500.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129064947.475029.78260@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87br1vii6e.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "gurkesaft" == gurkesaft  <jack.sankey at gmail.com> writes:

    gurkesaft> Thank you, Robert.  I noticed how obsolete it is!
    gurkesaft> There is no documentation.

    gurkesaft> Matplotlib freezes my system if I close a plot and make
    gurkesaft> a new one :(.  Bah.  Windows :)

Have you seen the documentation on 

  http://matplotlib.sf.net/installing.html

In particular, you need to make sure that your backend, shell, and
interactive setting all are harmonious.  One suggestion: in your rc
file, try setting 'backend : TkAgg' and 'interactive : True' in your
http://matplotlib.sf.net/matplotlibrc file.  Also, beware of using
matplotlib from a GUI IDE which uses a different GUI toolkit than the
one you've selected in your rc file.  I realize this is complex -- but
I think it is part and parcel of the curse of python.  python supports
6+ GUI toolkits and so matplotlib does too!  If the GUI mainloop and
matplotlib mainloop don't agree, bad things can happen.

JDH


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Oct  5 07:27:51 2005
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:27:51 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.1503.1128503668.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xwtks2tnw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4343B8B7.1070603@sweetapp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
>>Which is evaluated at runtime, does not require that the actual global
>>variable be pre-existing, and does not create the global variable if
>>not actually assigned. I think that is pretty different than your
>>proposal semantics.
> 
> 
> Different how?

Aren't you looking for some of compile-time checking that ensures that 
only declared variables are actually used? If so, how does global help?

>>Your making this feature "optional" contradicts the subject of this
>>thread i.e. declarations being necessary.  
> 
> They're necessary if you enable the option.

OK. Would it work on a per-module basis or globally?

> def do_add(x->str, y->str):
>       return '%s://%s' % (x, y)
> 
> def do_something(node->Node):
>       if node.namespace == XML_NAMESPACE:
>           return do_add('http://', node.namespace)
>       elif node.namespace == ...

Wouldn't an error be generated because XML_NAMESPACE is not declared?

And I notice that you are not doing any checking that "namespace" is a 
valid attribute of the node object. Aren't the typos class of error that 
you are looking to catch just as likely to occur for attributes as 
variables?

Cheers,
Brian



From hipertracker at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 07:00:08 2005
From: hipertracker at gmail.com (Jaroslaw Zabiello)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:00:08 +0200
Subject: IDE recommendation please
References: <BF8154AE.81A7%microsnot@MUNGED.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1km2me5ltd4xm$.2hz1vh3pgu03$.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:54:38 +1000, microsnot napisa?(a):

> Eclipse don't seem to support Python out of the box. 

It is very easy to add excelent python plugin
http://pydev.sourceforge.net/

Fast install: just go to the update manager (inside the help menu) and add
update site: http://pydev.sf.net/updates/ (eclipse should do the rest)

An alternative is just getting the zip file and extracting it yourself in
eclipse. If you choose to do it, just make sure the plugins folder is
extracted on top of the eclipse plugins folder.

--
JZ


From http  Thu Oct 13 16:50:57 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 13:50:57 -0700
Subject: Send password over TCP connection
References: <1128956787.454699.239210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.10.20.31.45.748939@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<1128979760.251637.316480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<bJ6dnc-SKcZhvdbeRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<1129033311.936104.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Y5WdnalI29SvPNDeRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<1129235140.938321.134990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xfyr56szy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"dcrespo" <dcrespo at gmail.com> writes:
> Ok, I understand... What about the MD5? Is it good enough to use when
> saving a hashed password on the database?
> 
> For example:
> user_input = raw_input("Type your password: ")
> password = md5.md5(user_input).hexdigest()
> SavePasswordInDatabase(user,password)

The usual way to do it is something more like:

   import os,binascii
   salt = binascii.b2a_base64(os.urandom(6))[:6]
   user_input = raw_input("Type your password: ")
   password = md5.md5(salt + user_input).hexdigest()
   SavePasswordInDatabase(user,salt,password)

The random salt slows down offline dictionary attacks against the
database.  Say you have 1000 accounts on your system and the attacker
needs just one password to log in and mess with stuff.  With your
scheme, he hashes each word in a large dictionary (say a million
words), sorts on the hash values, sorts your hashed password list on
its hash values, then compares the two sorted lists and if there's
even one match, you're cooked.  Each hash he computes can be compared
against all your accounts in parallel.  The salt means he has to do
them one by one, slowing him down by a factor of 1000.  However,
computers are now fast enough that dictionary attacks against every
single password are a serious threat.

If you have a way of storing a secret key K, then rather than using
unkeyed md5(whatever), use hmac(K, whatever).  But revealing K
effectively turns the hmac into an unkeyed hash.

Can you say what your application is?  That will help figure out how
far you need to go to protect these passwords, and what alternatives
might be possible.  

I highly recommend the book "Security Engineering" by Ross Anderson
for a good cultural introduction to what you're getting into when you
program this stuff.  It's a fun book to read, too.


From sherm at dot-app.org  Sat Oct  1 00:18:44 2005
From: sherm at dot-app.org (Sherm Pendley)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:18:44 -0400
Subject: OT: Phases of the moon
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128013745.763757.144280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128015868.201617.153240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<0001HW.BF63479501083049F0407550@news.individual.de>
	<l_e%e.20904$VI6.16155@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<m2mzlui595.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
	<pan.2005.10.01.04.26.46.28159@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <m2u0g1oonv.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:

> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:02:14 -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote:
>
>> axel at white-eagle.invalid.uk writes:
>> 
>>> I wonder if his postings are related to the phases of the moon? It
>>> might explain a lot.
>> 
>> Yes, it would. Note that the word lunatic is derived from the Latin word
>> luna, meaning moon.
>
> Yes, lunatic is derived from luna, but that doesn't mean the two are
> connected. The ancients believed a lot of crap

*whoosh*

That, my friend, was the sound of a joke flying past and completely
missing you. ;-)

sherm--

-- 
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 30 21:10:29 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:10:29 -0700
Subject: putting a string in Mac Address form
References: <1130725458.938638.221840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h59ei1.17rlu1r15svrd1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kyle.tk <kyle.tk at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
>       new_mac = ''
>       c = 0
>       while len(new_mac) < 16:
>               new_mac += mac[c:c+2] + ':'
>               c=c+2
>       return new_mac[:-1].upper()
   ...
> The part I think is bad is the while loop part. Could it be better?

What about replacing this whole block with, say...:

return ':'.join(mac[c:c+2] for c in range(0, 12, 2)).upper()

(as you did already check that len(mac) is 12...)


Alex


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct 14 16:24:03 2005
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 20:24:03 GMT
Subject: Inheritance...
References: <1129320387.840646.284580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96EFD9B05F126duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

KraftDiner wrote:

> I have a base class
> 
> class geometry(object):
>    def __init__(self):
>       self.blue = 1
>       self.red = 2
>    def render(self):
>       pass
> 
> class square(geometry):
>     def __init__(self):
>          super(square, self).__init__()
>    def render(self)
>       print 'square'
> 
> class circle(geometry):
>     def __init__(self):
>          super(square, self).__init__()
>    def render(self)
>       print 'square'
> 
> objLst = []
> objLst.append(square())
> objLst.append(circle())
> 
> for obj in objLst:
>    obj.render()
> print obj.blue
> 
> What is wrong with this... I will not print blue... (1)
> 
> 
a) No need to post your question twice.

b) When posting your code, you should post the actual code you have a 
problem with. The code you posted here contains syntax errors, so I presume 
you miscopied, or paraphrased it.

So, first fix your syntax errors.
Then correct the occurrences of the word 'square' in the class 'circle'.
Then your code will print 1.



From sam at email-scan.com  Fri Oct  7 20:50:26 2005
From: sam at email-scan.com (Sam)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:50:26 -0500
Subject: C/API Clarification
References: <mailman.1733.1128727748.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cone.1128732630.247772.11611.500@commodore.email-scan.com>

Jeremy Moles writes:

> in the world I got the idea from! According to the docs, METH_VARARGS is
> (PyObject*, PyObject*)?

Right.

>                         My prototype shouldn't even compile... but it

Why wouldn't it compile?

> 2. No where in the docs does it show how to "correctly" create an
> instance of your custom PyTypeObject in C (rather than in the
> interpreter). I'm using:

That's what tp_alloc is for.  Then you call tp_init to initialize it.

But, your tp_new handler should already invoke tp_alloc, so it's cleaner to 
call tp_new, followed by tp_init.

> 3. I'm not able to return the "self" argument (useful, for instance,
> when you want to chain a group of method calls) without screwing things
> up really, really bad. For example:
> 
> PyObject* somefunc(cstruct* self, PyObject* args, PyObject* kargs) {
> 	self->pointerToData->doSomeStuff();
> 	
> 	return (PyObject*)(self);
> }
> 
> ...returns "something"; it has the methods you would expect, but trying
> to use the object when it gets back to the interpreter is pretty much
> undefined behavior. :) It's seen as a "<refcnt...>" instance in the
> interpreter, even though a dir() shows it still has the methods you
> would expect.

You need to increment the reference count of the object, in this case.

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From samschul at pacbell.net  Mon Oct 10 19:28:37 2005
From: samschul at pacbell.net (sam)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:28:37 -0700
Subject: Wanted: Python module allowing direct access to raw sectors
	ofharddrives (MFT, boot sector, etc.) in MS Windows
In-Reply-To: <3r09niFh717sU1@individual.net>
References: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>
	<mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3r09niFh717sU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <1128986917.703980.35230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

The following site contains my routines to access information from the
Microsoft SCSIPASSTHROUGH layer under windows. These routines allow you
to access the storage devices mounted under windows using SCSI
commands. The dll that I provide will work with Python 2.3

http://starship.python.net/crew/samschul/

Sam Schulenburg

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> Thank you Jeff very much for your quick reply.
> It saved me really much time of digging in the wrong direction.
>
> <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in
> news:<mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list at python.org>...
> >> I took the advice from this web page:
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q100027/
> Ok, I had found this page myself during Googling, but I have missed just
> to try to use the described way of addressing physical devices with file
> opening in Python.
> It works as expected with harddrives so you are right that you are getting
> the MBR with the proposed code.
>
> After some not always happy end adventures with Python
> scripting I am impressed by the power of the concept behind
> the language once again.
>
> Claudio
>
> >>(I don't know how this extends to floppies, and the 9x family of OSes
> isn't
> >>listed in "applies to", so this may not help your case)
> >>Here, I open "physical drive 0" and see that the magic number indicates a
> valid
> >>boot record. I believe it is the MBR.
> >>>>> f = open('\\\\.\\PhysicalDrive0', 'rb')
> >>>>> f.read(512)[-2:]
> >>'U\xaa' # that is, hex 55 AA
> >>I don't know much about low-level filesystem or partition details--I got
> the
> >>tidbit about the 55 AA magic number from
> >>http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/pub/doc/suse/sles9/adminguide-sles9/ch08.ht
> ml
> >>Jeff
> >><jepler at unpythonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:mailman.1864.1128983425.509.python-list at python.org...



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 19 05:41:09 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 09:41:09 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.01.20.667844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<disod5$uls$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <ufyr1990k.fsf@hotmail.com>
	<divd9m$vfq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<adh8l1thpq22n9ub1ic2suhkjn81m0ik6i@4ax.com>
	<dj1nj8$qbo$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jcbzdw9.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<Orb5f.29427$Ge5.26368@fe10.lga> <dj3gb9$euk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4vcbl1dkek9kr86embmgrj70vk945t99ho@4ax.com>
	<dj4el3$q07$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<35jbl1dprs4v1o87i0tapc2husjqiqm6fi@4ax.com>
	<dj4oc0$tct$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<4355ea72$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>
	<dj51jn$13p$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <slrndlc55k.9v5.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-19, David Schwartz schreef <davids at webmaster.com>:
>
> "Luke Webber" <luke at webber.com.au> wrote in message 
> news:4355ea72$1_3 at news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>
>> As much as I hate to jump in on this thread, well I'm gonna...
>
>> I think you'll find that companies have all manner of legal obligations. 
>> Certainly to their shareholders, but beyond that they have an obligation 
>> to their clients, who pay them for their services, and to any individual 
>> or entity which might be harmed by their actions.
>
>     They have obligations to their clients because (and only because) 
> failure to provide the services they contract to provide will result in 
> lawsuits and harm to the shareholders. All other obligations come from the 
> harm these failures will do to the shareholders. First and formost, 
> companies exist to do the will of their shareholders.

Do I understand correctly.

Lets take the following situation:

A company figures out something is wrong with one of their new models.
They have two options. They can repair the problem or they can leave
it as is and brace the laswsuits that will likely follow. An analysis
shows that the first option is likely to cost more than the second.

As far as I understand you, the company should ship the faulty model.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From kent37 at tds.net  Sat Oct 29 14:49:33 2005
From: kent37 at tds.net (Kent Johnson)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:49:33 -0400
Subject: extracting numbers from a file, excluding fixed words
In-Reply-To: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130608130.154921.47840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4363c20c$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

dawenliu wrote:
> Hi, I have a file with this content:
> xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 0
> (many more 1's and 0's to follow)
> yyyyy yyyyyy yyy yyyyyy yyyyy yyy
> 
> The x's and y's are FIXED and known words which I will ignore, such as
> "This is the start of the file" and "This is the end of the file".  The
> digits 1 and 0 have UNKNOWN length.  I want to extract the digits and
> store them in a file.  Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 

Off the top of my head (not tested):

inf = open('input.txt')
out = open('output.txt', 'w')

skips = [
  'xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx',
  'yyyyy yyyyyy yyy yyyyyy yyyyy yyy',
]

for line in inf:
  for skip in skips:
    if skip in line:
      continue
  out.write(line)

inf.close()
out.close()

Kent


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 30 12:14:03 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:14:03 +0100
Subject: process and spinning slash
References: <1130690731.654048.157590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1h58mez.1jo7cnd1lilqm2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dk2v0t$hub$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Have the spin function accept the pid argument and exit the loop if said
> pid has terminated; to check the latter, e.g., os.kill(pid, 0) -- this
> will raise an OSError if no process with that pid exists, so you can use
> a try/except OSError: to catch that and break as appropriate.

or use the subprocess module instead of fork/exec, pass the Popen instance
to spin, and use the poll() method to check if the process is still running.

</F>





From gregpinero at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 23:25:45 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:25:45 -0400
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
In-Reply-To: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510122025i6bd1f372h5c1428d5a7a9f417@mail.gmail.com>

What kind of programming do you do, Len? I'm by no means an expert Python
programmer but I could look over a few of your programs anyway.

I'd reccomend to always try to challenge yourself. Don't just program
something one way just because it's all you know. Take 20 minutes now and
then to learn a new skill even if it breaks old coding habits.

Perhaps a simple anecdote would illustrate this. My first year programming
Python I was always building strings as:
str1=var1 + 'greg' + somethingelse + "more chars" + anothervar

However I always saw everyone else doing:
str1="%s greg %s more chars %s" % (var1,somethingelse,anothervar)

But I always figured it wasn't worth learning and my style was just fine!
Finally one day I got curious and took the 20 minutes and learned how the
formatting operaters work. It's really helped my programming and just made
my programs more intuitive. And I find it more attractive to see the whole
string almost as it will end up instead of broken up by '+'s everywhere.

I'm sure there are lots of examples of little things like that, that you can
pick up here and there.

-Greg




On 12 Oct 2005 18:44:26 -0700, LenS <lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Was wandering if there is any place where some one could go to get
> mentoring on python coding. I have started coding in python but I am
> the only one in the shop using it. So there is no one around to look
> over my code give suggestions on improvement, in style, logic, easier
> ways of doing things etc. I am not really looking for hand holding as
> much mentoring. I have purchased about every python book out and have
> a list a mile long on my internet bookmarks. I believe I have a good
> grasp of the fundamentals procedurally and I am fighting my way through
> OOP. I am more at the stage of trying to pull things together into
> programs that perform real world tasks. At one point I thought I saw
> some place on one of the web site that did this kind of thing but I
> can't find it now.
>
> Any help or suggestions welcomed
> Len Sumnler
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From samrobertsmith at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:10:56 2005
From: samrobertsmith at gmail.com (Shi Mu)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:10:56 -0700
Subject: line
In-Reply-To: <1128927863.163722.310000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1816.1128921679.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128927863.163722.310000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1d987df30510100010j180bc15er18224390ddbfe7be@mail.gmail.com>

it is not a homework, just interested.

On 10 Oct 2005 00:04:23 -0700, gsteff <greg.steffensen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why do you want to know?  This list isn't a tool to get others to do
> your homework.
>
> Greg
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Oct 12 20:30:23 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:30:23 +0100
Subject: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability
In-Reply-To: <1h4a5l4.13vx8k7etyxy1N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xr7au1hr5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkka7r.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xwtkl21hn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrndkkjlm.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<7xll11twc2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510102029200.10534@urchin.earth.li>
	<1h4a5l4.13vx8k7etyxy1N%aleax@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510130041440.19197@urchin.earth.li>

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>   ...
>> Has anyone looked into using a real GC for python? I realise it would be a
>
> If you mean mark-and-sweep, with generational twists,

Yes, more or less.

> that's what gc uses for cyclic garbage.

Do you mean what python uses for cyclic garbage? If so, i hadn't realised 
that. There are algorithms for extending refcounting to cyclic structures 
(i forget the details, but you sort of go round and experimentally 
decrement an object's count and see it ends up with a negative count or 
something), so i assumed python used one of those. Mind you, those are 
probably more complex than mark-and-sweep!

>> lot more complexity in the interpreter itself, but it would be faster, 
>> more reliable, and would reduce the complexity of extensions.
>
> ???  It adds no complexity (it's already there), it's slower,

Ah. That would be why all those java, .net, LISP, smalltalk and assorted 
other VMs out there, with decades of development, hojillions of dollars 
and the serried ranks of some of the greatest figures in computer science 
behind them all use reference counting rather than garbage collection, 
then.

No, wait ...

> it is, if anything, LESS reliable than reference counting (which is way 
> simpler!),

Reliability is a red herring - in the absence of ill-behaved native 
extensions, and with correct implementations, both refcounting and GC are 
perfectly reliable. And you can rely on the implementation being correct, 
since any incorrectness will be detected very quickly!

> and (if generalized to deal with ALL garbage) it might make it almost 
> impossible to write some kinds of extensions (ones which need to 
> interface existing C libraries that don't cooperate with whatever GC 
> collection you choose).

Lucky those existing C libraries were written to use python's refcounting!

Oh, you have to write a wrapper round the library to interface with the 
automatic memory management? Well, as it happens, the stuff you need to do 
is more or less identical for refcounting and GC - the extension has to 
tell the VM which of the VM's objects it holds references to, so that the 
VM knows that they aren't garbage.

> Are we talking about the same thing?!

Doesn't look like it, does it?

>> So python doesn't use the old SmallTalk 80 SmallInteger hack, or similar?
>> Fair enough - the performance gain is nice, but the extra complexity would
>> be a huge pain, i imagine.
>
> CPython currently is implemented on a strict "minimize all tricks" 
> strategy.

A very, very sound principle. If you have the aforementioned decades, 
hojillions and serried ranks, an all-tricks-turned-up-to-eleven strategy 
can be made to work. If you're a relatively small non-profit outfit like 
the python dev team, minimising tricks buys you reliability and agility, 
which is, really, what we all want.

tom

-- 
That's no moon!


From mlh at selje.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Oct 19 09:11:14 2005
From: mlh at selje.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:11:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Beginning Python (Practical Python 2.0)
Message-ID: <slrndlchfi.kor.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>

I guess it has actually been out for a while -- I just haven't
received my copies yet... Anyways: My book, "Beginning Python: From
Novice to Professional" (Apress, 2005) is now out. It is an expanded
and revised version of "Practical Python" (Apress, 2002). More
information can be found at

  http://hetland.org/writing/beginning-python

Thanks,

- Magnus

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                            "Preparing to stand by."
http://hetland.org                                -- Microsoft Windows


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Oct 30 03:30:22 2005
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophileHUGS at lycos.com)
Date: 30 Oct 2005 01:30:22 -0700
Subject: How do I sort these?
References: <1130524906.918612.38540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130661022.955974.262620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

# This can be a solution:

from operator import itemgetter
seq1a = ([2] * 4) + ([1] * 4)
seq2a = [complex(3-el,7-el) for el in range(1, 9)]
assert len(seq1a) == len(seq2a)
print seq1a, seq2a, "\n"

mix = zip(seq1a, seq2a)
# mix.sort() # Not possible
mix.sort(key=itemgetter(0))

# If you need tuples output:
seq1b, seq2b = zip(*mix)
print seq1b, seq2b, "\n"

# Alternative, lists output:
seq1b = [el[0] for el in mix]
seq2b = [el[1] for el in mix]
print seq1b, seq2b, "\n"

Bye,
bearophile



From mblume at socha.net  Fri Oct 21 10:04:13 2005
From: mblume at socha.net (Martin Blume)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:04:13 +0200
Subject: finding a number...
References: <mailman.2344.1129883765.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4358f55d$0$1146$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch>

"Enrique Palomo Jim?nez"
>
> After ftp a file from mvs to windows, i find:
> is an offset, so up to 2GB, a commercial application
> drives crazy
> [...]
>
??? I didn't understand your question, but 2 GB is popular
limit for the maximal size of a file for some filesystems
(e.g. ext2, FAT [???]).

Maybe this helps, otherwise you'd have to reformulate
the question.

HTH. YMMV.
Martin





From nicogrubert at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:53:35 2005
From: nicogrubert at gmail.com (Nico Grubert)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:53:35 +0200
Subject: Question about parsing a string
Message-ID: <434A1DFF.7080203@gmail.com>

Hi there,

I would like to parse a string in Python.

If the string is e.g. '[url=http://www.whatever.org][/url]' I would like 
to generate this string:
'<a href="http://www.whatever.org">http://www.whatever.org</a>'

If the string is e.g. '[url=http://www.whatever.org]My link[/url]' I 
would like to generate this string:
'<a href="http://www.whatever.org">My link</a>'

Any idea how I can do this? Maybe with regular expressions?

Thanks in advance,
Nico


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Thu Oct 20 21:54:52 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:54:52 -0400
Subject: DBM scalability
Message-ID: <1129859697.05de93f92162ac35884e384d6b4d3df1@teranews>

I'm trying to create a dbm database with around 4.5 million entries but the existing dbm modules
(dbhash, gdbm) don't seem to cut it. What happens is that the more entries are added, the more time
per new entry is required, so the complexity seems to be much worse than linear. Is this to be
expected and if so, should I expect better performance (i.e. linear or almost linear) from a real
database, e.g. sqlite ?

George




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct 16 03:49:50 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:49:50 +1000
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.09.33.809569@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Xns96F148C7D0F7castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.16.07.49.47.989203@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:26:51 +0000, John Bokma wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:47:09 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web
>>> based, and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions
>>> matter? It doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example,
>>> OpenOffice. Yet people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one
>>> reason is that people like to belong to a group. So even if it really
>>> doesn't matter which OS you are going to use to access a web
>>> application, or even which browser, people will pick a certain
>>> browser, and a certain OS, just because. 
>> 
>> Dude, do you think that Microsoft gives a rat's tail[1] for what a
>> handful of computer enthusiasts and geek programmers pick?
> 
> So you missed the point again. 

"Again"?

What exactly *is* your point? You seem to be oscillating from "Microsoft
doesn't care what browser people use" to "Microsoft cares deeply what
browser people use". I don't understand what you are trying to say.


>> They want
>> to control the business world, and believe me, corporations don't pick
>> the OS of their computer because they want to join a community, they
>> pick the OS that lets them run the applications that their business
>> needs to run.
> 
> So basically you're saying that even if web based applications become 
> the shit, everybody keeps running Microsoft? So I am right :-)

No. My point is, IF web-based apps become popular, and back in the 1990s
people thought that they would, and they would run on any browser, then
you could run your browser on any operating system on any hardware. That's
what Microsoft wanted to stop, by gluing the browser to the OS.

>> Operating-system independent browser-based applications threaten the
>> ability of Microsoft to tie that choice to Windows.
> 
> Ah, sure, you really think that a business is going to run office 
> applications on a web server? Are they already moving to Linux with 
> OpenOffice (free as in speech?).

As I said, back in the 90s that's what people thought, including Microsoft.

As for OpenOffice, yes, there is a slow migration away from MS Office. If
you are in the US, the UK or Australia, you probably won't have noticed
it, since it is a tiny trickle in those countries. But in the emerging IT
markets of Asia (especially China), Europe and South America, that trickle
has become a steady stream.

Especially now that Gartner has claimed that migrating from current
versions of Office to Office 12 will cost ten times more for training
alone than migrating to OpenOffice, I think we can expect to see that
trickle start gushing in the next twelve months or so.


>> That is why MS
>> decided to bundle IE with Windows and (try to) kill off Netscape as a
>> competitor. 
> 
> So and when exactly do we see the web based office?

Rumour has it that Google is preparing to do exactly that. 

Personally, I don't see the point. I would never use a web-based office
suite, but then I don't even like web mail. 

What's more important these days from Microsoft's strategic planning is
multimedia. Yes, they want -- need -- to keep control of the office suite,
Office gives them something like 1/2 their revenue. But for the long-term,
they want to lock folks into their proprietary Internet-based multimedia
systems (e.g. streaming wmv over mms) because they think that this will
give them control of a very lucrative business. I can't really disagree
with them.



-- 
Steven.



From cowie.rob at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 03:57:34 2005
From: cowie.rob at gmail.com (Rob Cowie)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 00:57:34 -0700
Subject: Looking for a Python mentor
In-Reply-To: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129167866.253155.157850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129190254.745763.59460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'll gladly give you a hand. I should point out - I'm no expert. I
think I've reached a point a bit beyond yours; I learnt OO programming
principles with java and have spent this last Summer learning python. I
have a good grasp of it.

If you want to get in touch, email  rob_cowie AT mac DOT com



From rune.strand at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 03:43:27 2005
From: rune.strand at gmail.com (Rune Strand)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 00:43:27 -0700
Subject: Adding a __filename__ predefined attribute to 2.5?
References: <1129098667.336115.303060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1939.1129101823.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129103007.870187.101790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I Steve,

I know it's several ways to isolate the filename. I just want to avoid
the overhead of importing sys or os  to achieve it.

Currently I have this in my scripts:
__filename__ = __file__.replace('\\', '/').rsplit('/', 1)[-1]



From bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au  Mon Oct 31 02:32:34 2005
From: bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:32:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Rich __repr__
References: <dk4g16$et4$1@rose.polar.local>
Message-ID: <dk4hai$euj$1@rose.polar.local>

Ben Finney <bignose+hates-spam at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> If I want to implement a __repr__ that's reasonably "nice" to the
> programmer, what's the Right Way? Are there recipes I should look
> at?

As a (carefully selected) example from the code I'm writing:


    >>> import lib.attribute
    >>> m = lib.attribute.Human_Sex("male")
    >>> m
    Human_Sex(name='male')
    >>> isinstance(m, basestring)
    True
    >>> print m
    male

Thus, a Human_Sex instance is a string, and that's how it prints
(because of the __str__ attribute of the 'str' type). But since there
are potentially other things to know about a Human_Sex instance, the
__repr__ is overridden to give an idealised constructor call for the
instance.

    class Human_Sex(str):
        def __repr__(self):
            repr_str = "%s(name=%s)" % (
                self.__class__.__name__,
                str.__repr__(self)
            )
            return repr_str

        def __init__(self, name):
            str.__init__(name)
            # [... other initialisation for this class ...]

I've simplified somewhat; Human_Sex is actually just one possible
attribute being implemented, and the above methods actually come from
a superclass. I'm looking for how to do this in general, and this is a
simple enough example of what I want.

Is this __repr__ implementation too complex? Too simple? Limited in
some way? Confusingly non-standard?

-- 
 \        "Laurie got offended that I used the word 'puke.' But to me, |
  `\              that's what her dinner tasted like."  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 16 05:34:26 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:34:26 +0100
Subject: UI toolkits for Python
In-Reply-To: <3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
References: <mailman.2028.1129234395.509.python-list@python.org><7xslv56ud1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list@python.org>
	<3ras6oFit2djU1@individual.net>
Message-ID: <dit6qv$tvc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> "Kenneth McDonald" <kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:mailman.2032.1129236372.509.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>Thanks for reminding me of Gtk. OK, add that to the list.
>>
>>The Web Browser interface is good for simple things, and will get better
>>with CSS2's adoption, but they still don't have a good way for important
>>things like interactive styled text, key bindings, etc. Good for
>>simple things
>>(for which I use them), not for more complex stuff.
> 
> 
> I don't fully understand your attitude here. The Web Browser interface has
> all I can imagine is required for a GUI, so what is missing when you
> consider, that you can generate custom images on the fly on the server and
> let the user shape the page without requesting CPU power from the server
> using JavaScript.

In this case then, I'm afraid the failure is in your imagination :-)

> I don't even name here the not really beeing itegral part of Internet
> Browsers JavaApplets and any other kind of plugin stuff.
> The only issue I can see with this approach is the speed of responding to
> user interactions, but for really optimize this one needs a compiled
> language anyway.
> What is that complex, that it can't be solved using an Internet Browser as a
> GUI?
> Do I miss here something?
> 
While you are correct in saying (I paraphrase) that HTML interfaces 
nowadays can offer a rich graphical interface, it can be quite difficult 
to manage state maintenance between the two components (web server, web 
client) in the system.

A "proper" GUI runs all functionality inside a single process, and 
allows much easier control over complex interactions, creation of 
dynamic dialogues, and so on.

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From vyzasatya at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 09:08:51 2005
From: vyzasatya at gmail.com (vyzasatya at gmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 06:08:51 -0700
Subject: How to run python scripts with IDLE
Message-ID: <1128690531.661166.102690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
My problem is
# I have to run a script which takes a command line parameter which is
unicode text
# I cant use Windows console as it doesnt support /display unicode
# I dont seems to find a way to pass command line arguments to scripts
in IDLE.
Please suggest me what I can do.
Thanks in Advance
Ravi



From bosteen at maysubdivide.org  Thu Oct 27 10:48:53 2005
From: bosteen at maysubdivide.org (Ben O'Steen)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:48:53 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Help: Quick way to test if value lies within a list of lists of 
	ranges?
Message-ID: <40824.213.235.52.66.1130424533.squirrel@www.maysubdivide.org>

Scenario:
=========

Using PyGame in particular, I am trying to write an application that will
run a scripted timeline of events, eg at 5.5 seconds, play xxx.mp3 and put
the image of a ball on screen, at 7.8 seconds move the ball up and down.
At this point, I hear you say 'Oh, like Flash'.

Yes, well... Like Flash, but I don't want to take this app in the same
direction as Macromedia took Flash, nor do I (ever) want the two to be
compatible.

One particular need is for the timeline to be quickly traversable. If I
want to go to time=239.4 seconds, I'd like it to go there pretty much
painlessly and hopefully with one call. (Same with play, reverse and pause
really) I also want it to play for a long duration, with lots of different
items (images, audio, etc.)

Let me be a little more specific:

sprite(a) -> (onscreen during) 2 - 10 secs, 20 - 50 secs
sprite(b) -> (onscreen during) 15 - 30 secs
sprite(c) -> (onscreen during) 42 - 50 secs
....

I need a quick way to rattle off a list of sprites that should be on
screen at a given time. Needless to say the number of sprites will be
variable, and might even change unpredictably in game.

E.G.

onscreen(time = 8.8 secs): return [sprite(a)]

onscreen(time = 44.134 secs): return [sprite(a), sprite(c)]

onscreen(time = 28 secs): return [sprite(a), sprite(b)]

(NB Anything from 10 -> 200 sprites would be normal intended usage, each
set -up with a list of start,stop times.)

Any suggestions on a clever way to do this? I don't like the idea of
looping through 100+ sprites and test them each an arbitary number of
times every update. Is this just something unavoidable which should be
written in C for speed and included with SWIG or something similar?

Ben

(Anti-Zealotry ward)
:0:
* ^Subject:.*Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
| gzip >> junk-archive.gz
IMO, We all have our personal experience or beliefs as to how MS operates.
Petitioning MEP's/Senators will accomplish more than arguing on a Python
mailing list.



From alevinci at cheapnet.it  Fri Oct 14 09:40:14 2005
From: alevinci at cheapnet.it (Vinci)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 06:40:14 -0700
Subject: Node Subtree
Message-ID: <1129297214.916954.306340@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I'm using Python to work on Xml documents importing the minidom module:
in particular I need to get the whole subtree rooted at a given node
"n".

Does anyone know whether there is a way to find it with a function
/class or by importing another module?

Thank you!

--
Alevi



From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Thu Oct 27 10:36:30 2005
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:36:30 GMT
Subject: time conversion
Message-ID: <OB58f.33235$b55.1588325@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Is there an easy to convert following hour notation hh:mm
to decimals?
For instance 2 hours and 30 minutes as 2:30 to 2,50
I don't really know where to search for this kind of conversion.

Thanks,
Benedict


From sidanko at scientist.com  Wed Oct 26 12:50:55 2005
From: sidanko at scientist.com (sidanko)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 09:50:55 -0700
Subject: WinXP vs. Win98
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2608.1130342363.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130331088.292656.213430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2608.1130342363.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130345455.653853.256940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks a lot! I have set the environment variable and now it runs just
fine!



From http  Mon Oct 10 10:46:27 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 07:46:27 -0700
Subject: socketServer questions
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128718708.7800.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xoe61yoa2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128774994.14078.2.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xu0frogwj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128948284.15030.7.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7x4q7po7l2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128953995.15590.19.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xzmph77lo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> > Instead, for client #i, let that client's key be something like
> >   hmac(your_big_secret, str(i)).digest()
> > and the client would send #i as part of the string.
> 
> How is this different from sending a pre-defined string from the client
> that the server knows the md5 hash of? The clients know the string, the
> server knows the hash of that string.

I'm confused, I don't understand what that md5 whatever would do for you.
I'm assuming the server is secure and the clients are less secure.

> Also, could this not be done both ways? So that, if an attacker figures
> out the string he's supposed to send from a client to the server (which
> he could easily do). He could not easily figure out the string the
> server should send back as all he would have is the hash of that string.

I'm still confused, are you now trying to prevent the client from
accepting bogus stuff from the server?  You can do that with a digital
signature and not need client-side secrets.  But I still don't see
much gain from that.

> So, before the actual data is sent from the client to the server. The
> client would send it's secret string that the server would verify and
> then if that worked, the server would send its own secret string that
> the client must verify. We'd have two secret strings instead of one.

If the client is insecure, an attacker who gets control of it will get
all the secrets in it, so it doesn't matter if there's one or several.

> Nothing important. It just logs network data. It's an anti-theft program
> for laptops that phones home data like this: public and private IP(s),

Yeah, if a laptop is stolen and the thief is sophisticated enough to
go finding the authentication keys inside some binary, s/he also won't
be dumb enough to leave the program active.  Those programs are just
for dumb thieves (of whom there are a lot) or their customers, who
simply plug in the laptop and start using it, without concern about
what software is on it.  If they have any sense they'll do a total
reinstall.

But anyway, yeah, people who enroll in the system should get a
customer number.  Then you can derive an auth key from the customer
number as described earlier.


From sathyaish at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 22:08:42 2005
From: sathyaish at gmail.com (Sathyaish)
Date: 1 Oct 2005 19:08:42 -0700
Subject: How is wxWindows related to Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1333.1128218230.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128216966.664758.179160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1333.1128218230.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128218922.138631.171880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks, guys.



From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Wed Oct 12 17:28:36 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 14:28:36 -0700
Subject: Advice on this code
Message-ID: <1129152516.432512.80460@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

If this is the wrong place to post this, please advise better place.
Otherwise, I have created the following python program and it works.
Running on XP.  I think I am now at that stage of learning python where
I'm not quit a newbie and I am not really knowlegable.  I know just
enough to be dangerous and can really screw things up.

Any suggestion on improving would be greatly appreciated.  However my
real question is I would like to run this program under a GUI interface
and have the GUI have a start button to start this process running and
the messages in the program placed in a multiline text field which when
the stop button is pressed the text field would be copied to a logfile
and the program exited.  Below this program is the skeleton of the
python gui program using wxPython (the gui program also works).  I have
a metal block on merging the two programs.  I think part of the problem
is the first is not really using object except for the database access
and the gui is all object.  Second, I'am getting all wrapped up with
variable, object, etc scope issues.



** FIRST PROGRAM **
"""This program is an attempt to modularize the lmsface program.
I also will try to document the logic of the program"""

import os
import glob
import time
import re
import shutil

from win32com.client import Dispatch
from ADOConstants import *

def cvtfiles():
    """ cvtfiles is the driving routine for converting and/or changing
    the V1sta quote flat file being sent by QuotePro to Unique.  The
    function gets a list of the files in the FTP directory path and
    opens each file one at a time and copies the data (with any
    necessary changes or additions to the output directory where
V1sta's
    interface program
 picks it up and converts it into the V1sta's
    SQL quote files.  Individual functions are called to process
    different segments of the flat file record."""

    global novehflag
    novehflag = False
    global ofile
    list1 = glob.glob('*.dat')
    for f1 in list1:
        if f1.lower().startswith("unq"):
            if f1.lower().rfind("void") < 0:
                print f1 + " is being processed now."
                input1 = open(cfdir + f1, 'r')
                output = open(ctdir + f1, 'w+')
                ifile = input1.readline()
                output.write(wrkpol(ifile))
                output.write(wrkdrv(ifile,1406,6))
                output.write(wrkveh(ifile,1784,6))
                if novehflag == True:
                    input1.close()
                    output.close()
                    shutil.copy2(cfdir + f1,cfdir + 'voided\\' + f1)
                    os.remove(cfdir + f1)
                    os.remove(ctdir + f1)
                    novehflag = False
                else:
                    output.write(wrkmisc(ifile,2582))
                    output.write(wrkviol(ifile,2774,16))
                    output.write(wrkaccid(ifile,3270,16))
                    output.write(wrkmisc2(ifile,3638))
                    output.write(wrkcov(ifile,3666,6))
                    output.write(wrklp(ifile,4314,7))
                    output.write(wrkai(ifile,4909,6))
                    output.write(wrkmisc3(ifile,5707))
                    output.close()
                    input1.close()
                    shutil.copy2(cfdir + f1,cfdir + 'processed\\' + f1)
                    os.remove(cfdir + f1)
                    print f1 + " has been processed."
            else:
                shutil.copy2(cfdir + f1,cfdir + 'voided\\' + f1)
                os.remove(cfdir + f1)
                print f1 + " is a VOIDED Quote from QuotePro."
        else:
            pass


def wrkpol(ifile):
    """ wrkpol functions converts the policy information segment.
    Currently the only changes made to the policy segment is to
    change Current-Carrier-Type to 0 if it contains a 0 or 1 or
    change Current-Carrier-Type to 1 if it contains a 2"""

    polwrk = ''
    polwrk = polwrk + ifile[0:577]
    polwrk = polwrk + '           '
    polwrk = polwrk + ifile[588:653]
    if ifile[653:654] in ['0','1']:
        polwrk = polwrk + '0'
    else:
        polwrk = polwrk + '1'
    polwrk = polwrk + ifile[654:974]

    maxcnt = 6
    cnt = 0
    strstart = 974
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart + 41:strstart + 52] == '           ':
            polwrk = polwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 72]
        else:
            polwrk = polwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 41]
            polwrk = polwrk + '           '
            polwrk = polwrk + ifile[strstart + 52:strstart + 72]

        strstart += 72
        cnt += 1
    return polwrk

def wrkdrv(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkdrv function at this point just moves the data as is.
    The driver segment is an occurs 6"""

    cnt = 0
    drvwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart + 23:strstart + 31] <> '        ':
            drvwrk = drvwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 63]
        else:
            drvwrk = drvwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 63]
        strstart += 63
        cnt += 1
    return drvwrk

def wrkveh(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkveh function does an SQL record lookup to try an select
    the correct vehicle in the V1sta make and model files.  If the
    correct model is found I move V1sta's make model and body
    descriptions to the flat file.  Currently, I hard code a 1 for
    vehicle use.  The drive segment is an occurs 6"""

    global novehflag
    cnt = 0
    vehwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart:strstart + 10] == '          ':
            if cnt == 0:
                print 'No vehicle on quote'
                novehflag = True
                vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 133]
            else:
                vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 133]
        else:
            vmake = ifile[strstart:strstart + 10]
            vyear = ifile[strstart + 98:strstart + 102]
            vvin4_8 = ifile[strstart +53:strstart + 58]
            vmodel = ''
            vbody = ''
            oParmYear.Value = vyear
            oParmMake.Value = vmake
            (oRS, result) = oCmd.Execute()
            while not oRS.EOF:
                wvin =
oRS.Fields.Item("VO_VIN_NO").Value.replace('*','.')
                wvin.replace('*','.')
                wvin = wvin[0:5]
                r1 = re.compile(wvin)
                if r1.match(vvin4_8):
                    vmake = oRS.Fields.Item("VA_MK_DESCRIP").Value
                    vmodel = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_MODEL").Value
                    vbody = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_DESCRIPTION").Value
                    vmodelid = oRS.Fields.Item("VO_MODEL_ID").Value
                    print 'DRC model ' + vmake + ' ' + vyear + ' ' +
vmodel + \
                          ' ' + vmodelid
                    vehwrk = vehwrk + vmake + vmodel + vbody
                    break
                else:
                    oRS.MoveNext()
            else:
                vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 50]
                print 'DRC model NOT FOUND'
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart + 50:strstart + 107]
            vehwrk = vehwrk + '1'
            vehwrk = vehwrk + ifile[strstart + 108:strstart + 133]
        strstart += 133
        cnt += 1

    return vehwrk

def wrkmisc(ifile,strstart):
    """ wrkmisc function was a simplistic way to take care of misc
    vehicle data which was not formated correctly in the flate file
    to begin with."""

    return ifile[2582:2774]

def wrkviol(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkviol function is an occurs 6 and is a straight move of
    the data"""

    cnt = 0
    violwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart:strstart + 1] <> ' ':
            violwrk = violwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 31]
        else:
            violwrk = violwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 31]
        strstart += 31
        cnt += 1

    return violwrk

def wrkaccid(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkaccid function is an occurs 6 and is a straight move of
    the data"""

    cnt = 0
    accdwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart:strstart + 7] <> '       ':
            accdwrk = accdwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 23]
        else:
            accdwrk = accdwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 23]
        strstart += 23
        cnt += 1

    return accdwrk

def wrkmisc2(ifile,strstart):
    """ wrkmisc2 function is again code to pickup data that probably
    should have been placed somewhere else but just got tacked on
    here"""

    return ifile[3638:3666]

def wrkcov(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkcov function moves the coverage data on any coverage segment
    which has towing or rental premium it files in the coverage fields
    for towing and rental coverage.  This is also an occurs 6 field"""

    cnt = 0
    covwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart + 17:strstart + 19] <> '  ':
            covwrk = covwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 8]
            if ifile[strstart + 92:strstart + 100] == '0       ':
                covwrk = covwrk + ifile[strstart + 8:strstart + 12]
            else:
                covwrk = covwrk + '50  '
            if ifile[strstart + 100:strstart + 108] == '0       ':
                covwrk = covwrk + ifile[strstart + 12:strstart + 16]
            else:
                covwrk = covwrk + '20  '
            covwrk = covwrk + ifile[strstart + 16:strstart + 108]
        else:
            covwrk = covwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 108]

        strstart += 108
        cnt += 1

    return covwrk

def wrklp(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrklp function moves the loss payee data with no changes.
    It is an occurs 7.  I am not sure if QuotePro messed up on the
occurs
    which should be a 6 and V1sta just went with the flow or what.  In
    addition there are 3 other field that SHOULD have gone in this
segment
    but are in the Additional Insured segment which are LP-ZIP-CODE-1,
    LP-ZIP-CODE-2, AND LP-CANCEL-DATE."""

    cnt = 0
    lpwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart:strstart] <> ' ':
            lpwrk = lpwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 85]
        else:
            lpwrk = lpwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 85]
        strstart += 85
        cnt += 1
    return lpwrk

def wrkai(ifile,strstart,maxcnt):
    """ wrkai function moves the additional insured information as well
    as the three loss payee fields mentioned in the wrklp function, go
    figure.  This is an occurs 6"""

    cnt = 0
    aiwrk = ''
    while cnt < maxcnt:
        if ifile[strstart:strstart] <> ' ':

            aiwrk = aiwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 133]
        else:
            aiwrk = aiwrk + ifile[strstart:strstart + 133]
        strstart += 133
        cnt += 1
    return aiwrk

def wrkmisc3(ifile,strstart):
    """ wrkmisc3 just moves the remaining part of the file unchanged"""

    return ifile[5707:6435]

# The following code creates a connection object,
# assigns the connection string, opens the
# connection object, and then verifies a good
# connection.

oConn = Dispatch('ADODB.Connection')

oConn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;" +\
                         "Data Source=uicesv05;" +\
                         "uid=aiis;" +\
                         "pwd=aiis;" +\
                         "database=auto_mo_001"

oConn.Open()
if oConn.State == adStateOpen:
    print "Database connection SUCCEEDED"
else:
    print "Database connection FAILED"

# The following code creates a command object,
# assigns the command to the connection object,
# sets the query, creates the parameters objects to
# be passed to the command object and requests the
# query to be prepared (compiled by the SQL system).

oCmd = Dispatch('ADODB.Command')
oCmd.ActiveConnection = oConn
oCmd.CommandType = adCmdText

oCmd.CommandText = """\
SELECT
    VA_MK_YEAR,VA_MK_DESCRIP,VO_VIN_NO,VO_MODEL,VO_BODY,
    VO_DESCRIPTION,VO_MODEL_ID
FROM D014800 INNER JOIN D014900
    ON VA_MK_NUMBER_VER = VO_MAKE_NO AND
        VA_MK_YEAR = VO_YEAR
WHERE VA_MK_YEAR = ? AND VA_MK_DESCRIP = ?
"""

vyear = ''
vmake = ''
oParmYear = oCmd.CreateParameter(vyear,adChar,adParamInput)
oParmYear.Size = 4
oParmMake = oCmd.CreateParameter(vmake,adChar,adParamInput)
oParmMake.Size = 10

oCmd.Parameters.Append(oParmYear)
oCmd.Parameters.Append(oParmMake)

oCmd.Prepared = True

# The following code saves the current working directory
# and creates a copy from directory variable and a copy
# to directory variable. We then change the working dir.
# to the copy from dir.
#
# The copy from dir. is the FTP library that the raters
# send the files to.  The copy to dir. is where program
# send the changed file to where it is then picked up by
# DRC's interface program and entered into the V1sta
# system.

currdir = os.getcwd()

cfdir = currdir + '\\quotepro\\'
ctdir = currdir + '\\unique\\'

os.chdir(cfdir)

# Next comes what is an infinite loop YES on purpose for
# right now.  I intend to eventually replace this code with
# a gui window (as soon as I figure out how).  Basicly, the
# way the loop wooks is that it will continue looping
# through the copy from dir (cfdir) looking for files.
# As long as it finds files it will process the files
# and then move them to the copy to dir. (ctdir).  If no
# files are found the program goes into sleep mode for a
# short time (currently 15 sec) and then looks in the dir
# again.

while True:
    cvtfiles()
# If no files are found in the FTP directory the program goes
# to sleep for 15 seconds
    time.sleep(15)

# Closes the SQL record set object
oRS.Close()
oRS = None

# Closes the SQL connection
if oConn.State == adStateOpen:
    oConn.Close()

oConn = None

** GUI PROGRAM **

"""This program is an attempt to modularize the lmsface program.
I also will try to document the logic of the program"""

import wx
import os

ID_ABOUT = 101
ID_OPEN = 102
ID_BUTTON1 = 110
ID_BUTTON2 = 120
ID_EXIT = 200

class MainWindow(wx.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title):
        self.dirname = ''
        wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, wx.ID_ANY, title,
                          style =
wx.DEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE|wx.NO_FULL_REPAINT_ON_RESIZE)

        self.control = wx.TextCtrl(self, 1, style = wx.TE_MULTILINE)

        self.CreateStatusBar()

        filemenu = wx.Menu()
        filemenu.Append(ID_OPEN, '&Open', ' Open a file to edit')
        filemenu.AppendSeparator()
        filemenu.Append(ID_ABOUT, '&About', ' Information about this
program')
        filemenu.AppendSeparator()
        filemenu.Append(ID_EXIT, 'E&xit', 'Terminate the program')

        menuBar = wx.MenuBar()
        menuBar.Append(filemenu, '&File')
        self.SetMenuBar(menuBar)

        wx.EVT_MENU(self, ID_ABOUT, self.OnAbout)
        wx.EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXIT, self.OnExit)
        wx.EVT_MENU(self, ID_OPEN, self.OnOpen)

        self.button1 = wx.Button(self, ID_BUTTON1, '&Start')
        self.button2 = wx.Button(self, ID_BUTTON2, '&Stop')

        wx.EVT_BUTTON(self, ID_BUTTON1, self.OnStart)
        wx.EVT_BUTTON(self, ID_BUTTON2, self.OnStop)

        self.sizer2 = wx.BoxSizer(wx.HORIZONTAL)
        self.sizer2.Add(self.button1, 1, wx.EXPAND)
        self.sizer2.Add(self.button2, 1, wx.EXPAND)

        self.sizer = wx.BoxSizer(wx.VERTICAL)
        self.sizer.Add(self.control, 1, wx.EXPAND)
        self.sizer.Add(self.sizer2, 0, wx.EXPAND)

        self.SetSizer(self.sizer)
        self.SetAutoLayout(1)
        self.sizer.Fit(self)

        self.Show(1)

    def OnAbout(self, e):
        d = wx.MessageDialog(self, 'A sample editor \n'
                             ' in wxPython',"About Sample Editor",
wx.OK)
        d.ShowModal()
        d.Destroy()

    def OnExit(self, e):
        self.Close(True)

    def OnOpen(self,e):
        """ Open a file """
        self.dirname = ''
        dlg = wx.FileDialog(self, "Choose a file", self.dirname, "",
"*.*", wx.OPEN)
        if dlg.ShowModal() == wx.ID_OK:
            self.filename = dlg.GetFilename()
            self.dirname = dlg.GetDirectory()
            f = open(os.path.join(self.dirname,self.filename),'r')
            self.control.SetValue(f.read())
            f.close()
        dlg.Destroy

    def OnStart(self, e):
        self.control.AppendText('Start Button Pressed\n')

    def OnStop(self, e):
        self.control.AppendText('Stop Button Pressed\n')

class myApp(wx.App):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = MainWindow(None, -1, "QuotePro/V1sta Interface")
        frame.Show(True)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return True

app = myApp()
app.MainLoop()



From g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de  Sun Oct  2 16:08:17 2005
From: g.franzkowiak at onlinehome.de (g.franzkowiak)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:08:17 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack
Message-ID: <dhpem5$nne$1@online.de>

Hello Everybody,

I've read a pipe and store it in a object.
My next step was the separation from 4 bytes with
obj = string.join(list(dataObject)[:4]	==> '\x16 \x00 \x00 \x00'
and the converting  by
value = struct.unpack('I', obj) generated the error
"unpack str size does not match format"

Unfortunately is len(obj) 7, but integer lengt 4.
Why 7 ?

Any ideas ?

gf


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 25 16:55:52 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:55:52 GMT
Subject: namespace dictionaries ok?
References: <Kqg7f.212972$p_1.34424@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<mailman.2501.1130206875.509.python-list@python.org>
	<g6h7f.3609$Zd.328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<Xns96FA56C7839F2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9Xs7f.4060$Zd.3377@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <435e998e.950534346@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:20:21 GMT, Ron Adam <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote:

>Duncan Booth wrote:
>> Ron Adam wrote:
>> 
>>>James Stroud wrote:
>>>
>>>>Here it goes with a little less overhead:
>>>>
>>>>
>> 
>> <example snipped>
>> 
>>>But it's not a dictionary anymore so you can't use it in the same places 
>>>you would use a dictionary.
>>>
>>>       foo(**n)
>>>
>>>Would raise an error.
>>>
>>>So I couldn't do:
>>>
>>>    def foo(**kwds):
>>>       kwds = namespace(kwds)
>>>       kwds.bob = 3
>>>       kwds.alice = 5
>>>       ...
>>>       bar(**kwds)     #<--- do something with changed items
>>>
>> 
>> I agree with Steven D'Aprano's reply, but if you are set on it you could 
>> try this:
>> 
>> 
>>>>>class namespace(dict):
>> 
>> 	def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
>> 	    dict.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
>> 	    self.__dict__ = self
>> 
>> 	    
>> 
>>>>>n = namespace({'bob':1, 'carol':2, 'ted':3, 'alice':4})
>>>>>n.bob
>> 
>> 1
>> 
>>>>>n.bob = 3
>>>>>n['bob']
>> 
>> 3
>> 
>> The big problem of course with this sort of approach is that you cannot 
>> then safely use any of the methods of the underlying dict as they could be 
>> masked by values.
>> 
>> P.S. James, *please* could you avoid top-quoting.
>
>Or worse, the dictionary would become not functional depending on what 
>methods were masked.
>
>
>And this approach reverses that, The dict values will be masked by the 
>methods, so the values can't effect the dictionary methods.  But those 
>specific values are only retrievable with the standard dictionary notation.
>
>     class namespace(dict):
>         __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
>         __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
>         __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__
>
>     n = namespace()
>     n.__getattr__ = 'yes'    # doesn't mask __getattr__ method.
>
>     print n['__getattr__']   -> 'yes'
>
>The value is there and __getattr__() still works.  But n.__getattr__ 
>returns the method not the value.
>
>So is there a way to keep the functionality without loosing the methods?
>
>
>BTW, I agree with Steven concerning data structures.  This really isn't 
>a substitute for a data structure.  Many keys will not work with this.
>
>     n.my name = 'Ron'
>     n.(1,2) = 25
>     n.John's = [ ... ]
>
>The use case I'm thinking of is not as a shortcut for data structures, 
>but instead, as a way to keep names as names, and maintaining those 
>names in a group.  Thus the namespace association.
>
>    def foo(**kwds):
>       kwds = namespace(kwds)
>       print kwds.name
>       print kwds.value
>       ...
>
>    name = 'ron'
>    value = 25
>    foo( name=name, position=position )
>
Just had the thought that if you want to add bindings on the fly modifying the
original object, you could use the __call__ method, e.g.,

 >>> class NameSpace(dict):
 ...     __getattr__ = dict.__getitem__
 ...     __setattr__ = dict.__setitem__
 ...     __delattr__ = dict.__delitem__
 ...     def __call__(self, **upd):
 ...         self.update(upd)
 ...         return self
 ...
 >>> def show(x): print '-- showing %r'%x; return x
 ...
 >>> ns = NameSpace(initial=1)
 >>> show(ns)
 -- showing {'initial': 1}
 {'initial': 1}

And updating with a second keyword on the fly:

 >>> show(show(ns)(second=2))
 -- showing {'initial': 1}
 -- showing {'second': 2, 'initial': 1}
 {'second': 2, 'initial': 1}

FWIW ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ccdetail at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 10:17:12 2005
From: ccdetail at gmail.com (Curt  Finch)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 07:17:12 -0700
Subject: online story about python
In-Reply-To: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <1130336232.081023.249570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

http://software.itmanagersjournal.com/software/05/10/25/1631220.shtml?tid=12
has a good article that talks about why python rocks



From gmilas at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 19:58:53 2005
From: gmilas at gmail.com (gmilas at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 16:58:53 -0800
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
In-Reply-To: <1130592935.839750.322930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130592935.839750.322930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130806733.803499.250350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

qwweeeit at yahoo.it wrote:
> Imagine you want to access a big database from a html server which
> only allows you to access such data in chunks pressing a "next"
> button on an ASP file. It will take several hours to click the button
> and then save the new data supplied by the server!
> That is a typical task of AutoIt, very easily programmable,

This may be of some use for you:
   - http://www.idyll.org/~t/www-tools/twill.html a python tool with a
language to script "web commands"
   - http://maxq.tigris.org/  a java tool with python as macro-language
to script "web commands"

I would guess, probably any tool designed for testing be it web or gui
should have some of the functionality you are looking after?



From michaelschneider at fuse.net  Fri Oct 14 12:43:43 2005
From: michaelschneider at fuse.net (Michael Schneider)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:43:43 -0400
Subject: Problems with properties
In-Reply-To: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
References: <ee2e7$434fd119$d8c4f6e6$6985@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <434FE03F.1090507@fuse.net>

Thanks to all,  I added the object as a subclass (should this be 
required for 2.4.1 ???)

I also switched to the decorator with the @property syntax

Thank you very much for the help for adding @property to the language.

what a great language :-)

Mike


Michael Schneider wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I have been working on learning how to use python properties.
> 
> The get property access is working, but the the set
> property is not working.
> 
> Rather then dispatching the property assignment to setNothing, the
> property object is being replaced with a string.
> 
> I must be doing something very stupid here.
> 
> Could someone please point out my error, I have dents in my forehead
> for this one.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> from unittest import TestCase
> import unittest
> 
> 
> class Task:
>   def __init__(self,command):
>     self._command = command
> 
>   def setNothing(self, value):
>     raise AttributeError
> 
>   def getCommand(self):
>     return self._command
> 
>   command=property(getCommand, setNothing)
> 
> 
> class taskTest(TestCase):
> 
>     def testTask(self):
>         t = Task("dir c:")
>         c = t.command
>         self.assertEquals("dir c:", c)
> 
>         # should fail, but doesn't
>         t.command = "foo Bar"
> 
>         self.assertEquals("dir c:", t.command)
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     unittest.main()


-- 
The greatest performance improvement occurs on the transition of from 
the non-working state to the working state.


From gordonb.pru8x at burditt.org  Sun Oct  9 19:04:49 2005
From: gordonb.pru8x at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:04:49 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11kj8ghonmialfc@corp.supernews.com>

>>And how do you fix the problem of unsolicited USENET articles?
>>(*ALL* of them are unsolicited to someone).  Or unsolicited
>>email?  
>
>Read my essay.
>http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
>
>I talk around those problems.
>
>It requires a fresh start.

This URL does not work.  However, from some of the other replies,
it seems that your suggestion involved identification of the sender
with digital signatures.

I think one necessary function of email and USENET is that it should
allow you to SAFELY communicate with strangers or, worse, people
you know but do not trust at all, and who are known to be malicious,
if you wish to do so, especially since meeting in person might
invoke the use of weapons of mass destruction (like, for example,
me and my hypothetical ex-wife).  

For example, George W. Bush ought to be able to exchange email with
Osama Bin Laden without risking revealing nuclear launch codes.
Hitler and Winston Churchill should have been able to exchange email
(had it been available during World War II) without revealing state
secrets accidentally.  I ought to be able to exchange email with
my boss without his being able to track if/when I read it.  I ought
to be able to communicate with the Direct Marketing Association to
get them to take my name off a mailing list without risking spyware
installation or revealing my credit card numbers.  Union leaders and
management should be able to negotiate by email without unwittingly
leaking information.

HTML is *mostly* dangerous.  (links.  Javascript.  references to
other files on the user's computer.  Forms.)  It's a lot more than
text formatting.  I suggest that if you want a text formatting
language, start with *TROFF* and take out the parts that refer to
other files.  As far as I know, troff doesn't have any networking
references in it.  Lots of people probably hate troff, but it's a
better start than HTML.

						Gordon L. Burditt


From ggrp1.20.martineau at dfgh.net  Thu Oct  6 12:23:44 2005
From: ggrp1.20.martineau at dfgh.net (Martin Miller)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 09:23:44 -0700
Subject: replacments for stdio?
References: <1127477278.036977.189230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1127670588.872596.117560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128079278.563621.8310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128548582.759883.326290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128597932.529665.51810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128615824.381261.47200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

In what way would you like to get "stdin to work"? In Bryan's post in
the Application(Frame).__init__() he binds some lambda functions to key
strokes which allow control-C copying of text in the window.

Seems like additonal application-specific things might be possible, but
then the code would no longer be generic. Interaction with the main
application would likely be tricky because each output window is
lanuched as a separate process when output is first sent to it.

As far a redistribution goes, I would think anything posted to the
public comp.lang.python usenet newgroup is unencumbered unless the
author indicates otherwise -- or at most covered by the same open
source license as Python.

-Martin


Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com wrote:
> yes,
>     I've tried it aswell - nice work indeed!
> 
> now, maybe also get stdin to work from this TK window... ;-)



From http  Fri Oct 14 17:21:25 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Oct 2005 14:21:25 -0700
Subject: Function to execute only once
References: <1129317118.937439.159550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129322058.901077.90680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1129324139.891942.3710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xzmpbpzfu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"snoe" <case.nelson at gmail.com> writes:
> Also why is it if I set tmp as a global and don't pass it as a
> paremeter to the various functions as per the OP that I get an
> "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tmp' referenced before assignment"?

If you don't declare it as a global, and if you try to assign a value
to it, then Python thinks it's a local.  If you only refer to it and
never assign it, Python decides it's global.  Python is weird that
way.  One consequence is that if it's local to some outer scope, then
it's neither global nor local to your function, so there's no way to
assign to it.

I think Pythonic style is to not do complex things with closures,
but to use class instances instead.


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Wed Oct  5 21:18:31 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:18:31 -0500
Subject: What documentation "standard" to use
In-Reply-To: <0001HW.BF6A03AA00B1AD5CF0284550@news.individual.de>
References: <0001HW.BF6A03AA00B1AD5CF0284550@news.individual.de>
Message-ID: <F47862B3-E3F0-4C12-AFE7-C82ECED29594@sbcglobal.net>

This is, as far as I'm concerned, one of the great weaknesses of  
Python. (One of a
relatively few, to be honest--I'm still an enthusiast after all!)

There are numerous docstring-oriented tools; in my opinion, none of  
them are satisfactory,
because docstrings only apply to certain entities, and there are many  
other entities one
might wish to document.

Fred Lundh pointed out just a day or two ago a program of his called  
PythonDoc where
documentation is put into comments, and from the brief look I had at  
it, I may start
using it, it looks pretty nice.

ReStructuredText (now called ReST, I believe) looks like it's finally  
become a quite
good text markup language, and if there were a non-docstring system  
that used it, I
think that also would be good.

But what I'd really like is for Guido et al to declare a standard  
documentation system and
include in the standard Python distro. That way we would have _some_  
standard, and
people could concentrate their energy on improving it, rather than on  
continually
coming up with their own, non-interoperable, solutions.

Cheers,
Ken

On 5-Oct-05, at 3:26 PM, Kalle Anke wrote:

> I'm confused of how I should document my code, I've always liked  
> being able
> to document my code directly in my source file and then to use some  
> tool to
> extract the documentation to some other format.
>
> My problem with Python is that there are so many tools and  
> formats ... I
> don't know which one I should use. I've tried to figure out if  
> there is one
> that is the "de-facto standard" but ...
>
> Could someone advice me on what format/tool I should use?
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct  5 10:52:47 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:52:47 -0000
Subject: Call C functions from Python
References: <1128454231.381256.297280@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1128514161.835258.138730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1528.1128517749.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128522414.964010.65970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndk7q5t.eoe.grante@isis.visi.com>

On 2005-10-05, Java and Swing <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:
> i tried...
>
>>> from ctypes import *
>>> myapp = cdll.LoadLibrary("c:\\myapp.dll")
>>> dumpbin /exports myapp.pyd
>
> i get, SyntaxError: invalid syntax with it pointing at the first "p" in
> myapp.pyd.

Um, just a guess, but I don't think that was python code.  

Try it at a command prompt.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The entire CHINESE
                                  at               WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL TEAM all
                               visi.com            share ONE personality --
                                                   and have since BIRTH!!


From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 08:40:39 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:40:39 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g1h1m1db8vf8mn2k91fhuol97qu3i03on8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqhs7$5ok$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:06:16 -0700, "David Schwartz"
> <davids at webmaster.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
> said :

>>    Right, they send gun-wielding thugs to use force against people.
>> That's a lot like refusing to do business with people who won't
>> uphold their contractual obligations.

> You stupid fuck! How many times do I have to tell you.

> There was NO contract. Just a THREAT to make me do what they wanted,
> to go along with their extortion racket.

    Getting information from you is like pulling teeth. This threat was to 
do what they wanted or else .. WHAT?

    DS




From pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 15:51:02 2005
From: pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com (pranab_bajpai at yahoo.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 12:51:02 -0700
Subject: Python variables are bound to types when used?
Message-ID: <1129751462.061785.124830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

So I want to define a method that takes a "boolean" in a module, eg.

def getDBName(l2):
...

Now, in Python variables are bound to types when used, right?

Eg.
x = 10 # makes it an INT
whereas
x = "hello" # makes it a string

I take it, the parameters to a function (in the above example "l2") are
bound in the definition, rather than as invoked.

So, if I use "l2" thus:

if (l2): # only then does it make it a boolean?

and if I did,

if (l2 = "hello"): # would it become string?

and what if I never used it in the definition body?

Elucidate please.



From richard at nospam.com  Sun Oct  9 08:03:26 2005
From: richard at nospam.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:03:26 +0100
Subject: Creating internet shortcuts
Message-ID: <1p9jp8i0al14h$.1xmuz4fyfs4m5.dlg@40tude.net>

I've seen the python.faqts page:
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4475/fid/538 on how to
create windows shortcuts using Python.

Does anyone know if this be adapted to create internet shortcuts on
windows? (as used for Favorites).

Thank you,

-- 
Richard


From nil at dev.nul  Sun Oct 16 14:00:23 2005
From: nil at dev.nul (Christian Stapfer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:00:23 +0200
Subject: Comparing lists
References: <slrndkk695.r6k.oddr@dverghimalayaeiner.ii.uib.no>
	<1128930699.799657.146210@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<didn4p$pbn$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1128952417.0544cc73190bbbd4e683448c137969c8@teranews>
	<mailman.1843.1128959845.509.python-list@python.org>
	<difh7d$vtk$1@news.hispeed.ch> <434ba977@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<digri2$no9$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<1129216693.445956.155490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<diq0ne$g6g$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.12.58.03.207379@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dira2i$cq0$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<pan.2005.10.15.19.22.50.864680@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<dispgk$a8s$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<cTp4f.16180$ae.11317@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<dithp2$spg$1@news.hispeed.ch>
	<jYv4f.152052$xl6.59875@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <diu4fn$h1v$1@news.hispeed.ch>

"Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote in message 
news:jYv4f.152052$xl6.59875 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Christian Stapfer wrote:
>> "Ron Adam" <rrr at ronadam.com> wrote in message
>> news:cTp4f.16180$ae.11317 at tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>>
>>>Christian Stapfer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>This discussion begins to sound like the recurring
>>>>arguments one hears between theoretical and
>>>>experimental physicists. Experimentalists tend
>>>>to overrate the importance of experimental data
>>>>(setting up a useful experiment, how to interpret
>>>>the experimental data one then gathers, and whether
>>>>one stands any chance of detecting systematic errors
>>>>of measurement, all depend on having a good *theory*
>>>>in the first place). Theoreticians, on the other hand,
>>>>tend to overrate the importance of the coherence of
>>>>theories. In truth, *both* are needed: good theories
>>>>*and* carefully collected experimental data.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Christian
>>>
>>>An interesting parallel can be made concerning management of production 
>>>vs
>>>management of creativity.
>>>
>>>In general, production needs checks and feedback to insure quality, but
>>>will often come to a stand still if incomplete resources are available.
>>>
>>>Where as creativity needs checks to insure production, but in many cases
>>>can still be productive even with incomplete or questionable resources.
>>>The quality may very quite a bit in both directions, but in creative
>>>tasks, that is to be expected.
>>>
>>>In many ways programmers are a mixture of these two.  I think I and 
>>>Steven
>>>use a style that is closer to the creative approach. I get the feeling
>>>your background may be closer to the production style.
>>
>>
>> This diagnosis reminds me of C.G. Jung, the psychologist,
>> who, after having introduced the concepts of extra- and
>> introversion, came to the conclusion that Freud was
>> an extravert whereas Adler an introvert. The point is
>> that he got it exactly wrong...
>>
>>  As to the value of complexity theory for creativity
>> in programming (even though you seem to believe that
>> a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
>> creativity), the story of the discovery of an efficient
>> string searching algorithm by D.E.Knuth provides an
>> interesting case in point. Knuth based himself on
>> seemingly quite "uncreatively theoretical work" (from
>> *your* point of view) that gave a *better* value for
>> the computational complexity of string searching
>> than any of the then known algorithms could provide.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Christian
>
>
>> (even though you seem to believe that
>>> a theoretical bent of mind can only serve to stifle
>>> creativity)
>
> No, that is not at all what I believe.  What I believe is, "The insistence 
> of strict conditions can limit creative outcomes."

That's agreed. But going off *blindly*experimenting*
without trying to relate the outcome of that experimenting
back to ones theoretical grasp of the work one is doing
is *not* a good idea. Certainly not in the long run.
In fact, muddling-trough and avoiding the question
of suitable theoretical support for one's work is
perhaps more typical of production environments.

> The lack of those limits does not prevent one from using any resources 
> (including theoretical ones) if they are available.
>
> You seem to be rejecting experimental results in your views.

Not at all. You must have mis-read (or simply not-read)
my posts in this thread and are simply projecting wildly,
as psychoanalysts would call it, that is all.

>  And the level of insistence you keep in that view,

A view that I do not really have: you are really projecting
indeed.

> leads me to believe you favor a more productive environment
> rather than a more creative one.

You are mistaken. Although I have some "practical background"
(originally working as a "self-taught" programmer - although,
ironically, for a "development and research department"),
I went on to study mathematics at the Federal Institute
of Technology here in Switzerland. Do you want to say that
having been trained as a mathematician makes one uncreative?
- But it is true that mathematicians are socialized in such
a way that they tend to take over rather high standards of
precision and theoretical grounding of their work.

>  Both are good, and I may entirely wrong about you,

.. you are at least *somewhat* wrong about me,
that I am quite sure of...

> as many people are capable of wearing different hats depending on the 
> situation.
>
> I think the gist of this thread may come down to...
>
> In cases where it is not clear on what direction to go because the choices 
> are similar enough to make the choosing difficult.  It is almost always 
> better to just pick one and see what happens than to do nothing.

As it appears, not even my most recent post has had
*any* recognizable effect on your thoroughly
misapprehending my position.

Regards,
Christian




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 17:43:11 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:43:11 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <di6mn3$4mp$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<200510071528.25305.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>
	<di6mn3$4mp$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200510071643.11162.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 07 October 2005 03:44 pm, Steve Holden wrote:
> Precisely because there *is* such a thing as a saving. If I buy a $100 
> gumball for $80 I have achieved a saving of 20%.

Nope, that's incorrect American. ;-)

You can say "I bought a $100 gumball for $80, saving 20%," or
"If I buy a $100 gumball for $80, I have achieved a savings of 20%."

(Although, you lose points for style with "achieved", and those
are awfully expensive gumballs). ;-)

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Oct 13 20:26:22 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:26:22 +0200
Subject: Setdefault bypasses __setitem__
In-Reply-To: <Xns96EE7E35E3D06duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <rNOSPAMon-1142EA.23243612102005@news.gha.chartermi.net>
	<3r6hsnFi3qb8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Xns96EE7E35E3D06duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3r8c9qFhsj84U1@uni-berlin.de>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
> 
>>So if setdefault
>>was implemented as
>>
>>def setdefault(self, v):
>>     self["SOME_DEFAULT_KEY_NAME"] = v
> 
> 
> if setdefault was implemented that way then all current uses of setdefault 
> would throw an exception.
> 
> setdefault takes *three* parameters: self, key, value. Once you include the 
> key parameter your entire argument implodes.

Yup. It does implode, leaving me thunderstruck because of my dumbness.

I rarely find things in python strange or named incorrectly, but this is 
IMHO such a case - setdefault led me to think that using it would set a 
default value to return for _future_ lookups of non-existant keys. That 
semantics is known in e.g. ruby or java.

I think a better name would be getdefault, or even get_setdefault - in 
oppposition to the get(key, d) form.

But now that this became clear to me... I guess I can live with the name :)

Diez


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 08:22:52 2005
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:22:52 +0100
Subject: Windows vs Linux [was: p2exe using wine/cxoffice]
Message-ID: <9A28C052FF32734DACB0A288A3533991044D22A2@vogbs009.gb.vo.local>

Tim Golden wrote:
> As it happens, (and I suspect I'll have to don my flameproof suit
here),
> I prefer the Windows command line to bash/readline for day-to-day use,
> including in Python. Why? Because it does what I can't for the life of
> me get readline to do: you can type the first few letters of a
> previously-entered command and press F8. This brings up (going
backwards
>
> with further presses) the last command which starts like that. And
> *then*
> you can just down-arrow to retrieve the commands which followed it.
> If someone can tell me how to do this with bash/readline I will be
> indebted to them and it will increase my chances of switching to Linux
> a bit! (Although not at work where I have no choice!)

[bonono at gmail.com]
> But command line in Windows is in no way in the same
> league as *nix shell. Use <tab> for command completion and up/down
> arrow or <ctrl-R> to search for history.

[darren kirby]
> Try ctrl-r in bash, then type your first few letters...

Thanks to both of you. But that much I already knew. It's not
that I have *no* knowledge about readline: I did at least
read the manuals when I got stuck! But as far as I can tell
from my experience and from the docs -- and I'm not near a 
Linux box at the mo -- having used ctrl-r to recall line x 
in the history, you can't just down-arrow to recall x+1, x+2 etc. 
Or can you?

(Sorry guys; I realise this is more stuff for comp.os.linux or
comp.commandlineshells.bash or whatever it's called. But if
someone *did* know the answer, I'd be really happy!)

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  8 05:42:10 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 10:42:10 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "Britishaccent"...
In-Reply-To: <4346c5a8.0@entanet>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>	<4h5ck1hkqq0ls83pq0lodkb51tsda4053k@4ax.com>	<mailman.1663.1128672240.509.python-list@python.org>	<di5vs8$dk1$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<4346c5a8.0@entanet>
Message-ID: <di8499$v87$2@sea.gmane.org>

Duncan Smith wrote:
> Rocco Moretti wrote:
[...]
> 
> So English is spoken only in the South East of England, except London?
> I think you should also disbar the queen (unless she's already
> classified as a Londoner), due to her apparent confusion between the 1st
> person singular and 1st person plural :-).
> 
There are special rules for the monarchs, who are expected to refer to 
themselves in the first person plural.

Oscar Wilde understood this. When he boasted that he could speak 
extempore for a minute on any subject of a challenger's choosing someone 
shouted "The Queen", to which he replied "The Queen, sir, is not a subject".

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC                     www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006                  www.python.org/pycon/



From oliver.andrich at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 11:25:11 2005
From: oliver.andrich at gmail.com (Oliver Andrich)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:25:11 +0200
Subject: How to separate directory list and file list?
In-Reply-To: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
References: <0e9nl1tvvgqlhkahkmrrfc810b3ed1unb6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6f7b52d0510230825w4b0ae363t@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

2005/10/23, Gonnasi <harddong at 21cn.net>:
> With
> >glob.glob("*")
>
> or
> >os.listdir(cwd)
>
> I can get a combined file list with directory list, but I just wanna a
> bare file list, no directory list. How to get it?

don't know if it is the best solution, but it looks nice. :)

path = "/home/test"
files = [fn for fn in os.listdir(path) if
os.path.isfile(os.path.join(path, fn))]

This gives you just the list of files in a given directory.

Best regards,
Oliver



--
Oliver Andrich <oliver.andrich at gmail.com> --- http://roughbook.de/


From lycka at carmen.se  Wed Oct  5 03:34:55 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:34:55 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1386.1128357078.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.11645	3@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<434084	3b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99
	f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E4	5EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xn	s96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1386.1128357078.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dhvvn0$dem$1@wake.carmen.se>

en.karpachov at ospaz.ru wrote:
> Some people just don't get the simple fact that declarations are
> essentially kind of unit test you get for free (almost), and the compiler
> is a testing framework for them.

It seems you've missed the entire point of using a dynamically
typed language. It's not just about saving typing time and making
your methods take up fewer lines of code. It's about writing generic
code. Just look at C++ with all that mess with complex templates,
silly casting and dangerous void pointers etc that are needed to
achieve a fraction of the genericity that Python provides with no
effort from the programmer.

With properly written tests, you can be reasonably that the program
does what you want. Type declarations are extremely limited in this
aspect, and they often give programmers a false sense of security.


From mlh at selje.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Oct  3 18:08:16 2005
From: mlh at selje.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:08:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 350: Codetags
References: <20050926223521.GE10940@kitchen.client.attbi.com>
	<mailman.1041.1127862456.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndk3aug.101.mlh@selje.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <mailman.1041.1127862456.509.python-list at python.org>, Terry
Hancock wrote:
[snip]
>The <> terminator is evil.  People will hate that. If there are no fields,
>you should just be able to leave it off. This will have an additional
>advantage in that many will already have compliant codetags if you leave
>off this requirement.

I heartily agree. I use codetags like these all the time -- *except*
that I don't add the "<>" at the end.

>You worry over the need to detect the end of the block, but wouldn't '\n\n'
>be a much more natural delimiter?  I.e.:

That would make perfect sense, and is in no way restrictive.

># TODO: This is a multi-line todo tag.
>#       You see how I've gone to the next line.
>
># This, on the other hand is an unrelated comment. You can tell it's not
># related, because there is an intervening blank line.  I think people
># do this naturally when writing comments (I know I do -- I'm fairly
># certain I've seen other people do it).
>#
># Whereas, as you can see, a mere paragraph break can be represented by
># a blank comment line.

Indeed.

># Whitespace formatting, after all, is VERY PYTHONIC. ;-)
># Delimiters on the other hand -- well, we prefer not to mention
># the sort of languages that use those, right? ;-)

<shudder>

IMO, the syntax could be really simple: One comment (one or more
contiguous comment lines) that start with

  # FOO:

(with FOO being any of the tags) is grouped along with the tag. One
can dhen optionally add the <...> stuff at the end. (Not sure if that
would be my preferred syntax for it, but I won't complain as much
about that as about the empty '<>' thing :)

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland     "The early bird may get the worm but the second
http://hetland.org      mouse gets the cheese."       -- Willie Nelson


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct  7 16:00:36 2005
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 13:00:36 -0700
Subject: multiple logger
References: <1128713230.539865.202980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128715236.856509.266020@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Just replace

logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)

with

logging.getLogger().setLevel(logging.DEBUG)

and you will no longer get messages written to the console. The
basicConfig() method is meant for really basic use of logging - it
allows one call to set level, and to add either a console handler a
simple (non-rotating) file handler to the root logger. See the
documentation for more information.

Vinay Sajip



From dietmar at schwertberger.de  Sun Oct 16 12:11:48 2005
From: dietmar at schwertberger.de (Dietmar Schwertberger)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:11:48 +0200
Subject: Length of read in in python-gpib
References: <4351a665$0$41142$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <ant1616480b02%2U@RiscPC.schwertberger.de>

In article <4351a665$0$41142$14726298 at news.sunsite.dk>, Madhusudan Singh
<URL:mailto:spammers-go-here at spam.invalid> wrote:
> python-gpib provides Gpib.py (see end of post) for Linux.
> 
> I am trying to use the method called read. I usually use it without
> arguments (the default length being 512). However, I am trying to read in a
> string with some 16,000 comma separated floating point numbers.

I've never used python-gpib, but I'm using National Instrument GPIB
cards with a wrapper that loads the driver DLL using ctypes.
Usually for such long data you have to perform multiple read operations and
check the card/bus status whether the read operation is finished
(Code "END" - "END or EOS detected").
So with the National Instrument drivers I'm checking whether ibsta is
something like 0x2000, i.e. 1<<13.

The following code is a snippet from my sources.
Hope this helps. From your post I can see that python-gpib also provides
an ibsta method. I'd expect that END is also 1<<13.

Regards,

Dietmar



import ctypes

gpib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary("gpib-32")

# read buffer
_bufsize = 1024
_buffer = ctypes.c_buffer(_bufsize)

_readstatus = 0x2000
_errorstatus = 0x8000

def get_ibcntl():
    return ctypes.c_int.in_dll(gpib, "user_ibcntl").value

def ibrd(handle):
    ret = []
    ibsta=0
    global _buffer

    while not (ibsta & _readstatus):
        ibsta = gpib.ibrd(handle, _buffer, _bufsize)
        new = _buffer.raw[:get_ibcntl()]
        ret.append( new )
        if ibsta & _errorstatus:
            _raise(GPIBIOError,
                   "ibrd(handle=%d): Could not read data."%handle, ibsta )
    ret = "".join(ret)
    if '\012' in ret:
        ret = ret[0:string.find(ret, '\012')]
    if '\015' in ret:
        ret = ret[0:string.find(ret, '\015')]
    return ret



From rich.teer at rite-group.com  Mon Oct 10 13:28:02 2005
From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:02 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.22.49.29.840592@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<llrik1ph4mpkud83t9qpnjks533vpkv24e@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.22.49.29.840592@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.58.0510101026510.21577@excalibur>

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> But there is always an alternative. You can always send me a Word
> document, a PDF, an Powerpoint presentation showing the steps one per
> page, why the possibilities are endless.

Why saddle you with a proprietory format (M$ Office), when StarOffice
and OpenOffice do the job just as well, for much cheaper (and are cross
platform too)?!

> You could even send me a URL to a webpage.

Indeed!

-- 
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich


From Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 06:10:13 2005
From: Ido.Yehieli at gmail.com (Ido Yehieli)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 03:10:13 -0700
Subject: searching a project to contribute to
Message-ID: <1128939012.964789.23840@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

    Thank you all for your advice, I currently have several offers that
I'm really tempted about - I will take a closer look at both of them
(as well as continue searching) and will make an educated decision
within the next few days.
    I've also decided to get rid of the sily pseudonym...



From thakadu at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:31:30 2005
From: thakadu at gmail.com (thakadu)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:31:30 -0700
Subject: Simple prototype text editor in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1585.1128581675.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128530997.895468.164240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1128581675.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128609090.858119.28110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi Viktor

At the moment I dont have any web site where I can
upload it. Do you or anyone have any suggestions or
know of any web sites where one can post python code?
If not please email me and I will send you the code by email.

Regarding the license I have not yet decided what type
of license (if any, since its very few lines of code)  but probably
will be GPL or BSD style. I have no former experience in
licensing code so any suggestions will be welcome there as well.
(For one, do you know if simply stating somewhere in the
code "This is licensed under blah blah" is sufficient
to consider the code licensed?)



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Oct 21 14:19:58 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:19:58 +0200
Subject: Psycopg2 date problems: "Can't adapt"
In-Reply-To: <4358F620.7040107@holdenweb.com>
References: <4358F620.7040107@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <4359314E.70906@ghaering.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Steve Holden wrote:
> I'm trying to copy data from an Access database to PostgreSQL, as the 
> latter now appears to work well in the Windows environment. However I'm 
> having trouble with date columns. [...]
> Here's the problem in a nutshell:
> 
>  >>> d
> <DateTime object for '2003-10-02 00:00:00.00' at af9be0>
>  >>> ocurs.execute("DELETE FROM Lines")

This repr looks like a mxDateTime object. psycopg does include adapters
for mxDateTime, but in order for them to be built, the mxDateTime
sources and headers must be made available at psycopg build time
(because it interfaces mxDateTime at the C extension level, unlike most
if not all other Python DB-API adapters).

A quick look at its setup.py reveals a have_mxdatetime variable and a
check that decides wether to build with mxDateTime support or not. So,
if it does not find mxDateTime, it builds without support for it. Which
is apparently what you're experiencing.

HTH,

- -- Gerhard
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDWTFOdIO4ozGCH14RAgMyAJkB7gV88qhsmLmiMTCKXEDCbmjclACdEiW0
S56KM6ArQRUqP+jel2dC14M=
=cExi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Mon Oct 31 09:23:05 2005
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno at modulix)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:23:05 +0100
Subject: 'super' to only be used for diamond inheritance problems?
In-Reply-To: <s4m9f.25186$m%6.9640@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <s4m9f.25186$m%6.9640@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <436628cb$0$13718$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Alex Hunsley wrote:
> I've seen a few discussion about the use of 'super' in Python, including
> the opinion that 'super' should only be used to solve inheritance
> diamond problem. (And that a constructor that wants to call the
> superclass methods should just call them by name and forget about super.)
> What is people's opinion on this? Does it make any sense?

<imho>
Since you'll never know how your class will be used, better to stick
with super... super(MyClass, self).dothis() is no more difficult to use
than MySuperClass.dothis(self), and does not require much more typing,
so I don't see any reason not to use it.
</imho>


-- 
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'onurb at xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Thu Oct 13 14:00:44 2005
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:00:44 +0100
Subject: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?
In-Reply-To: <434e9d4b$0$32652$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <mailman.2019.1129225413.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434e9d4b$0$32652$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <434ea0cd$0$318$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>

Will McGugan wrote:
> Neal Becker wrote:
> 
>> I can do this with a generator:
>>
>>     def integers():
>>         x = 1
>>         while (True):
>>             yield x
>>             x += 1
>>
>> for i in integers():
>> Is there a more elegant/concise way?
>>
> 
> import itertools
> for i in itertools.count():
>     print i
> 

Actualy itertools.count(1) to start at 1..

Will McGugan
-- 
http://www.willmcgugan.com
"".join({'*':'@','^':'.'}.get(c,0) or chr(97+(ord(c)-84)%26) for c in 
"jvyy*jvyyzpthtna^pbz")


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 13:08:45 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:08:45 -0700
Subject: Syntax across languages
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130072403.157932.147930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130072891.260350.179950@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1h4vqhb.miuwq9cq3lbbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

bonono at gmail.com <bonono at gmail.com> wrote:

> just curious, how can this identity function be used ? In haskell,
> because all functions are curried, I can sort of visualize/understand
> how id is used. Not quite understand how it can be used in python.

There was a very recent example posted to this group (by Robin Becker, I
believe, looking for ways to "override property"), something like:
    def __init__(self, validate=None):
        if not validate: validate = lambda x: x
        self.validate = validate
and later on, self.validate is always unconditionally called to extract
a valid value from an input argument to another method -- a nicer style,
arguably, than assigning self.validate unconditionally and then having
to test each and every time in the other method.  Such subcases of the
well-known "Null Object" design pattern, where you don't want to store
None to mean "no such object" but, to avoid repeated testing, rather
want to store an object which "reliably does nothing", are reasonably
common.  In an abstract way, they're somewhat akin to having the 'pass'
statement in the language itself;-).


Alex


From ryanlists at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 11:44:11 2005
From: ryanlists at gmail.com (Ryan Krauss)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:44:11 -0400
Subject: shelve object back to dictionary
Message-ID: <c5b438120510060844p6c27e9ffl35600e473333bae1@mail.gmail.com>

Is there an easy way to convert a shelved object back to a dictionary?
 When I save a dictionary using shelve and then load it in a later
session, I have an object whose property names are the keys of the
dictionary used as an input to shelve.  For example, instead of
user['name'] I have user.name.  I would prefer to have the scripts I
write to analyze the saved data have a similar syntax to the ones I
used to create it, so I would rather deal with a dictionary after I
load the shelved data.

Ryan

From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct  4 13:49:01 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:49:01 GMT
Subject: Controlling who can run an executable
References: <1128395422.904212.318930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3bnhlx1m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128422990.741343.292310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4342bf7b.3192487554@news.oz.net>

On 4 Oct 2005 03:49:50 -0700, "Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Paul Rubin wrote:
>> "Cigar" <chrisgarland67 at hotmail.com> writes:
>> > Now that I'm three months into the development of this program, my
>> > client tells me she would like to protect her investment by preventing
>> > her employees from doing the same to her.  (Going to the competition
>> > and using her program.)
>>
>> Exactly what is the threat here?
>
>I think the BIGGEST threat here is a feeling of vulnerablity.  She now
>realizes that she is in a position that her competition was many years
>ago when she came into possesion of program the 'other side' was using
>and that she is now vulnerable.  She wants to feel safe in the
>knowledge that she didn't reach into her pocket and pay thousands of
>dollars for a program that now could now be used by her competition.
>Nobody wants to pay money to level the playing field for all in a
>business environment.
So the biggest threat would seem to be her competition posting requirements
here and having some showoff post a complete solution ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct  6 02:44:41 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 6 Oct 2005 06:44:41 GMT
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.15.46.48.890052@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<86slvijt8s.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434245F5.6060500@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4lk5.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xr7b14lk0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.1426.1128427925.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndk4tnp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1440.1128433536.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xu0fx9l7y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Xns96E659D4AB073duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk751c.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E6695EF22B6duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<4344b80d.3321657210@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <slrndk9hup.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-06, Bengt Richter schreef <bokr at oz.net>:
> On 5 Oct 2005 09:27:04 GMT, Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>> It also is one possibility to implement writable closures.
>>> 
>>> One could for instace have a 'declare' have the effect that
>>> if on a more inner scope such a declared variable is (re)bound it
>>> will rebind the declared variable instead of binding a local name.
>>
>>That is one possibility, but I think that it would be better to use a 
>>keyword at the point of the assigment to indicate assignment to an outer 
>>scope. This fits with the way 'global' works: you declare at (or near) the 
>>assignment that it is going to a global variable, not in some far away part 
>>of the code, so the global nature of the assignment is clearly visible. The 
>>'global' keyword itself would be much improved if it appeared on the same 
>>line as the assignment rather than as a separate declaration.
>>
>>e.g. something like:
>>
>>var1 = 0
>>
>>def f():
>>  var2 = 0
>>
>>  def g():
>>     outer var2 = 1 # Assign to outer variable
>>     global var1 = 1 # Assign to global
>
> IMO you don't really need all that cruft most of the time. E.g., what if ':='
> meant 'assign to variable wherever it is (and it must exist), searching according
> to normal variable resolution order (fresh coinage, vro for short ;-), starting with
> local, then lexically enclosing and so forth out to module global (but not to builtins).'

Just some ideas about this

1) Would it be usefull to make ':=' an expression instead if a
   statement?

I think the most important reason that the assignment is a statement
and not an expression would apply less here because '==' is less easy
to turn into ':=' by mistake than into =

Even if people though that kind of bug was still too easy

2) What if we reversed the operation. Instead of var := expression,
   we write expression =: var.

IMO this would make it almost impossible to write an assignment
by mistake in a conditional when you meant to test for equality.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From stanbar at si.rr.com  Sat Oct 15 09:15:01 2005
From: stanbar at si.rr.com (Stan Krajewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:15:01 -0400
Subject: New to Python: my impression v. Perl/Ruby
Message-ID: <000901c5d18a$74bdb950$2d32a818@stan8gnbwsgaio>

Very interesting. I too am deciding between the three languages. I find Python to be the easiest to use. By far. 

I find the forced indentation in Python a blessing in disguise. 

It seems Python is making in-roads into the progarmming community.

With Ruby, its back to idiosyncratic and abstract syntax. Why? Is it necessary to be cryptic? Whoever can figure out the puzzle is the smartest one?




"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." 

Albert Einstein 



Thanks for sharing your thoughts!


Stan

 

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From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct 19 23:01:28 2005
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:01:28 -0400
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<1129776956.254389.188040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-D8075E.23012819102005@reader2.panix.com>

In article <1129776956.254389.188040 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
 "jean-marc" <jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca> wrote:

> I'd believe that would be Lua, but then again what is common to one
> might not be to another ;-)

Dang, you're right!  Lua's got Ruby beat two-fold!


From elicriffield at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 16:09:19 2005
From: elicriffield at gmail.com (Eli Criffield)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 13:09:19 -0700
Subject: nested escape chars in a shell command
Message-ID: <1129666159.791998.134880@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I'm try run an ssh command in pexpect and I'm having trouble getting
everything escaped to do what i want.

Here's a striped down script showing what i want to do.

--
#!/usr/bin/env python
import pexpect
import sys
if len(sys.argv) < 3:
        print "ssh.py host command"
        sys.exit(1)

host = sys.argv[1]
command = sys.argv[2]

child = pexpect.spawn('''sh -x -c "stty -echo ; ssh -t -o
'StrictHostKeyChecking no' %s '%s' |awk '{print \"%s:\"$0}' "
'''%(host,command,host), timeout=30)

child.setlog(sys.stdout)
child.expect(pexpect.EOF)
--

The problem in the pexpect.spawn line, It doesn't like the \"%s:\" part
of the awk command. This is necessary so i can see what server the
command is running on, In the full script the command will be running
on about 100 servers at a time.
It parses out into:
+ stty -echo
+ ssh -t -o 'StrictHostKeyChecking no' testserver date
+ awk '{print testserver:$0}'
It totally strips out the "

The stty -echo is required because part of what the program does is it
tries to remember any passwords that are asked for, So you can run a
command like "su -c id" and it will remember roots password for the
next
server and try that. -echo keeps the root password from being echoed to
the screen.

The second problem with the command is while "su -c id" works (taking
out the awk part) running any command with more then one word after the
-c in su fails, It strips out the '
like so:
./sshexpect testserver "su -c 'ls -l /root'"
+ stty -echo
+ ssh -t -o 'StrictHostKeyChecking no' testserver 'su -c ls' -l /root
su: user /root does not exist

I have tried every combination of escaping i can think of can i can't
get either problem solved.

Any ideas?

Eli



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 03:19:28 2005
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:19:28 -0700
Subject: Batteries Included?
In-Reply-To: <86achgzgjo.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <1129010199.291968.142720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86achgzgjo.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <1129015167.969228.256110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Mike Meyer:
> After you create a setup.py file for you program, doing
>
>         "python setup.py bdist --formats=wininst"
>
> should do the trick.
>
> Of course, I don't own a Windows box, so I can't check it, but when I
> ask a setup file for help on formats, it tells me the wininst format
> is a windows installer.

I can confirm that it works (for pure Python applications), since I did
it.

               Michele Simionato



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Oct 15 14:18:11 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:18:11 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com><87oe5xfyng.fsf@qrnik.zagroda>
	<7xpsqdtwv4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><diek5m$336$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu><877jch9wwn.fsf@qrnik.zagroda>
	<uif2l19eeb6soqclslqup70lpi10red2t2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dirh55$gr5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> >This entry is obsolete: it should mention the 'key' option of the
> >standard sort method.
>
> It should mention it, but not necessarily recommend it.
>
> I haven't run the numbers in Python, but in Perl, the undecorated sort is
> so well-optimized that the Schwartzian transform is almost always faster
> than passing a custom comparator to the sort function.

the "key" option is used for decoration.  from the documentation:

    key specifies a function of one argument that is used to extract
    a comparison key from each list element: "key=str.lower"

    In general, the key and reverse conversion processes are
    much faster than specifying an equivalent cmp function. This
    is because cmp is called multiple times for each list element
    while key and reverse touch each element only once.

</F>





From nszabolcs at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 11:08:27 2005
From: nszabolcs at gmail.com (Szabolcs Nagy)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 08:08:27 -0700
Subject: How to translate python into C
In-Reply-To: <1130493811.719479.160450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130491053.787273.201650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130493304.961498.226200@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130493811.719479.160450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130512107.873940.291700@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

python script crashed and you want to debug it?

if no trace back provided with the line number where the exception
raised, then the crash caused by an extension module (most likely
written in C), i don't know howto debug it, but at least you can find
the place where the crash occures by adding lots of print statements
with debug information.

i don't think compiling to c would make it easier.


there are python debuggers but i've never used one (these can only
debug python scripts not the binary extension modules).

pdb builtin module:
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-pdb.html

nice debugger with gui:
http://www.digitalpeers.com/pythondebugger/



From tokidokix at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 08:47:36 2005
From: tokidokix at gmail.com (toki doki)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:47:36 +0200
Subject: How to organize Python files in a (relatively) big project
Message-ID: <e3413670510190547r58f16d84oe4f51f7efac32ed6@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

Actually, I found a (pretty ugly) workaround to my problem: In every
__init__.py of the subdirectories I created, I add the following lines:

import os.path,sys
for directory,sub_dir,files in os.walk(os.path.normpath(os.path.join(
os.path.dirname(__file__),".."))):
sys.path.append(directory)

That add all of the sub-directories of the parent directory to the sys.path.
I can then move my files in the directories I want without having to change
a single line in them.
it may not be very elegant, but for the moment, it will do.

Actually, after thinking about it, I think that my problem is more a problem
with the os than with python. subdirectories are the only method most OS
provide for file organization. If there was a method for, for example, add
labels to files and then browse files according to the labels, I wouldn't
have this problem. (ok, I could arrange that with the names of the files,
but it doesn't feel the same for me).

Jason> Actually, unless I am wrong, you don't need to add the path of the
package with a .pth . It should be done automatically when you import it.

Giovanni>
>The usual way is to do "import pkgN" and then dereference

What do you call 'dereference'? do you mean something like 'import spam.foofoo=
spam.foo' ?

>My preferred way is to have __init__.py just do "from submodules import *",
and then each submodule defines __all__ to specify which are its public
symbols.

Your solution soud interesting (although it doesn't exactly do what I want
in the present case). I would consider it when I have to do hierarchical
packages. However, I think I read somewhere that "from module import *"
statements could cause (probably small) performance issue. Do you think this
can be the case here?

Anyway, thank you all for your very interesting replies. (and sorry for the
double-post)

TokiDoki
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From david at jotax.com  Tue Oct 25 01:14:34 2005
From: david at jotax.com (David Poundall)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 22:14:34 -0700
Subject: Importing at runtime
References: <1130215994.502926.99190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2503.1130216898.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130217274.386750.96420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks James,  just after I posted I stumbled across the execfile
command.  Looks like with 'exec' and 'execfile' I should be able to do
what I want.  

What an elegant language.



From olivier.dormond at hispeed.ch  Wed Oct 26 10:53:59 2005
From: olivier.dormond at hispeed.ch (Olivier Dormond)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:53:59 +0200
Subject: Pickle to source code
In-Reply-To: <1130332534.999358.152530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130315056.793178.232760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130332534.999358.152530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djo5a8$itb$1@news.hispeed.ch>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> Or perhaps:
> 
> xxx = new.instance(MyClass, {'a':1,'b':2,'done':1})
> 
> In other words, I need a *string* which, being sent to eval(), would
> return the original object state saved in the pickle.
> As has been pointed, repr() would do that for simple types. But I need
> a more general solution.

Doesn't pickle.loads just do what you need ? e.g.:

>>> pickled = file('test.dat', 'rb').read()
>>> obj = eval('pickle.loads(%r)'%pickled)
>>> obj
<__main__.MyClass instance at 0xb7bfb76c>
>>> obj.a, obj.b, obj.done
(1, 2, 1)
>>>

As I've never used the persistent_id mechanism of pickle I don't know
if that would do the trick.

Cheers,

	Olivier


From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct 13 16:30:58 2005
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:30:58 -0500
Subject: Yes, this is a python question,
	and a serious one at that (moving to Win XP)
Message-ID: <ECF41EEE-3B43-41C7-A583-580496EDEF1D@sbcglobal.net>

For unfortunate reasons, I'm considering switching back to Win XP  
(from OS X) as my "main" system. Windows has so many annoyances that  
I can only compare it to driving in the Bay Area at rush hour (OS X  
is like driving in Portland at rush hour--not as bad, but getting  
there), but there are really only a couple of things that are really,  
absolutely preventing me from making the switch. Number one is the  
lack of a decent command line and command-line environment, and I'm  
wondering (hoping) if perhaps someone has written a "Python shell"-- 
something that will look like a regular shell, let users type in  
commands, maybe have some of the nice features of bash etc. like tab  
completion, etc, and will then execute an underlying python script  
when the command is entered. I'm not thinking of IDLE, but something  
that is really aimed more at being a system terminal, not a Python- 
specific terminal.

Yes, I know that Cygwin is out there, but last I looked, they still  
went through the Win command-line window, which imposes a lot of  
restrictions.

More generally, has anyone written any python programs to administer  
various Win settings for which one must otherwise delve deep into  
mazes of twisty little dialogs, all alike? Or to help out with other  
annoyances? I know there are a lot of general utilities, but if  
they're in Python, I can also use them as a starting base for my own  
needs.

Finally, a significant incentive in doing this is that I could avoid  
a lot of installation hassle, since virtually everything has at least  
a decent installation package for Win. (I'd hoped this would happen  
for OS X, but it never has). Can anyone think of important python- 
related packages (release level, not cutting edge alphas) for which  
this might not be the case?

Many thanks,
Ken


From nbg at nbg.invalid  Tue Oct 25 14:13:03 2005
From: nbg at nbg.invalid (Not Bill Gates)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:13:03 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<5l1rl1dt2vj6lanvbfue4pglv1kkgl1qn9@4ax.com>
	<djkb0c$u9b$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<g6srl15c24s1b7ed22rc1hqqt0d2dh8ktp@4ax.com>
	<djl4g9$79l$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<MPG.1dc809b9a100931f98a5c7@news.verizon.net>
	<m3pspt8x2b.fsf@invalid.address>
	<MPG.1dc81ac34cf682e898a5c9@news.verizon.net>
	<pan.2005.10.25.16.03.34.887292@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <MPG.1dc83fbcb41bc7d598a5cb@news.verizon.net>

steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au wrote...
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:35:47 +0000, Not Bill Gates wrote:
> 
> > Heck, I dunno.  Like you, I don't even really care all that much.  
> 
> You don't care that innovation in desktop software has been crippled by
> the actions of the monopoly player Microsoft?

You need to first prove innovation in desktop software has been 
crippled, don't you?



From http  Sat Oct  1 04:16:40 2005
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Oct 2005 01:16:40 -0700
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <311b5ce105092800102da32267@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1081.1127913236.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7xd5mstqab.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<ce5nj19gvt0k93873bgint094uoueavr1p@4ax.com>
	<7xzmpwuxd0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <dhgvfl$u3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20050930075313.67b9b676.jk@ospaz.ru>
	<mailman.1223.1128055324.509.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2005.09.30.10.50.07.710795@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xbr2a6dlz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.30.12.31.07.153290@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xk6gyoibc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.10.01.06.32.17.706653@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xwtkx3b4n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> writes:
> A cautionary tale of what happens when religious wars enter programming
> debates. For all I know, Paul Rubin is intelligent, gentle, kind to
> animals and small children, generous, charitable and modest.

Don't bet on it.

> But touch his religious belief in the necessity of "truly" private
> variables, and boy oh boy does he lose the plot.

I haven't claimed necessity (except in some specific types of
applications).  I've said it's a useful feature in a certain type of
development process.  So I think you're the one losing the plot and
acting like a religious whacko.  If there's a feature you don't want
to use, nobody is making you use it.  You're going off the deep end
saying nobody else should be allowed to use it either.

> Paul misses the point: in a language like Python that allows the dynamic
> modification of public methods (as well as private ones) you can't be
> sure with absolute 100% mathematical certainty that your public interface
> is the same at runtime as it was when you did your last code audit.

Obviously any privacy-enforcement mechanism has to cope with that.
Think of the situation with Bastion, back when it existed and was
believed to sort-of work.

> If your development team uses test-driven development, you will catch this
> breakage immediately you check the code in. If you don't, you've got
> lots more bugs that you don't know about, so one more is no big deal.

Methinks you have too much faith in testing.  It only shows that your
program handles the test cases that you give it.  To show that the
program handles all the other cases, you need actual logic.

> > Why on earth would you want to unnecessarily introduce random bugs
> > into a word processor or anything else?  
> 
> Paul puts words into my mouth: I never suggested that it was good to
> introduce bugs, unnecessarily or otherwise. What I said was that aiming
> for 100% mathematical certainty that there are no bugs in a word processor
> is pointless. No lives are at stake. The fate of nations doesn't rest on
> your ability to make sure that PyWord is 100% bug free. Relax dude, the
> world won't end if there is a bug or two in your code.

See:  http://vowe.net/archives/005838.html  
(found with about 5 seconds of Google searching).

People could very well have died over disclosures like that, whether
caused by software bugs or (as in this instance) by unlucky
interaction of intentional features.  These things happen over and over.  

If you look at the NSA's initial release of the Skipjack algorithm
spec, it was a PDF file containing a bitmap that was obviously a scan
of a fax of a document that had come out of a word processing program.
People chuckled that a mighty operation like the NSA could be so
technologically backward that they couldn't just put the word
processor file directly online.  Later they realized that maybe the
NSA was simply being careful, that the document had been prepared in a
classified environment and they didn't trust their word procssing
software to not leak classified info into the file, so they stuck to a
policy of only moving data like that around on paper and not in
computer files.

Information leakage from word processors is a serious problem.

> Of course, if Paul had been paying attention, he would have realised that
> 100% certainty is not possible in general no matter what style of
> development you use. Perhaps folks have heard of the halting problem?

You don't know what you're talking about.  That is a red herring.

> You can reduce the probability of bugs by using best practices, but never
> reduce it to zero. How small do you need? Is it really shocking to suggest
> that while a one in a billion billion chance of a bug might be
> needed for a nuclear reactor, we might be satisfied with just one in a
> million for a word processor?

In some ways, word processors are harder to write safely than nuclear
reactor code.  Nuclear reactors usually run in carefully controlled
environments and the field is mature enough that you can have some
reasonable confidence that the data going into the program (e.g. from
sensors) will be similar to the data that you tested the program with.
What you're left with is Murphy's Law: something unexpected could
happen by accident and you can make some reasonable assumptions about
the distribution of inputs to make sure the probability is low.  Ross
Anderson calls this "programming Murphy's computer".

A word processor, on the other hand, has to deal with malicious input,
that can be fiendishly crafted in ways that the implementer never
dreamed of.  It's the difference between worrying about being hit by a
meteor at random, and worrying about being hit by a meteor because
someone in the asteroid belt is steering them towards you on purpose.
Anderson calls this "programming Satan's computer".

> Should we decide that C is not suitable for critical applications?

Yes, absolutely.  C (by which term I include C++) is unsuitable for
critical applications including word processors.  C is woefully
underspecified, it has no type safety, yada yada.  It's even worse
than Python.  People write those applications in C today anyway only
because they are irresponsible and/or insane.  Look at all the buffer
overflow exploits in Microsoft Office that keep appearing every day of
the week.  If Office had not been written in C, those bugs wouldn't
have anything like such bad consequences.

> In any case, there is a difference between mission-critical applications
> (such as, perhaps, a word processor) and what are generally called "real
> time" critical systems such as those controlling nuclear power stations
> and the like. I doubt that Python runs on any real-time operating
> systems suitable for such critical systems, but perhaps I'm wrong.

I don't see any point to that.  Critical is critical whether it's
real-time or not.  If you write an inventory management program and
someone uses it to route medical supplies into a disaster area, it can
kill people.


From amichail at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 08:09:38 2005
From: amichail at gmail.com (Amir  Michail)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 05:09:38 -0700
Subject: cgi relay for python cgi script
References: <1128411305.541560.90790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1419.1128412905.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128427778.421720.205370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Amir Michail wrote:
>
> > Is there an easy way to execute a python cgi script on a different
> > machine from the cgi server?
>
>     http://www.google.com/search?q=reverse+proxy
>
> </F>

Is there an easy way to do this without modifying the configuration of
the cgi server and without running a cgi server on the other machine
where the script will actually run?

Perhaps someone wrote a simple server that provides the required
environment for the cgi script to run?

I'm looking for something simple that does not require root access.

Amir



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Oct  9 12:36:02 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:36:02 +0200
Subject: [regex] case-splitting strings in unicode
In-Reply-To: <di9m1c$fm2$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <di9m1c$fm2$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <434946f2$0$15668$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

John Perks and Sarah Mount wrote:
> I have to split some identifiers that are casedLikeThis into their
> component words. In this instance I can safely use [A-Z] to represent
> uppercase, but what pattern should I use if I wanted it to work more
> generally? I can envisage walking the string testing the
> unicodedata.category of each char, but is there a regex'y way to denote
> "uppercase"?

In this form, it is currently not implemented, although it should be
(written as [[:upper:]], I believe); contributions are welcome (make
sure you read the Unicode consortium's guidelines on regular expressions
before attempting to implement it).

Until then, the "best" way is to use a regular character class,
precomputed or computed at runtime.

uni_upper = [unichr(i) for i in range(sys.maxunicode) if 
unichr(i).isupper()]
uni_re = u"["+u"".join(uni_upper)+u"]"

On my machine, this takes approximately one second to compute,
which may or may not be too much as a startup cost. To speed
this up, you could dump the resulting uni_re into a Python
source file.

Regards,
Martin


From rrr at ronadam.com  Wed Oct 26 17:43:57 2005
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:43:57 GMT
Subject: How best to reference parameters.
In-Reply-To: <1130342595.533405.191920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130274796.584531.229340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4SM7f.4313$Zd.1145@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
	<1130342595.533405.191920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <xMS7f.213858$p_1.122891@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>



David Poundall wrote:
> Sadly Ron,  c_y can only see index and showall in your example.

Well, don't give up!  The approach is sound and I did say it was 
untested.  Here's a tested version with a few corrections. :-)

Cheers,
    Ron




class Pump(object):
     def __init__(self, name, ptype, number):
         self.status = 0
         self.name = name
         self.ptype = ptype
         self.number = number

class C_Y(object):
      def __init__(self, plist):
           index = []
           for p in plist:
               self.__dict__[p[0]] = Pump(*p)
               index.append(p[0])
           self.index = index
      def showall(self):
           out = []
           for item in self.index:
                out.append( "%s: %r, %r, %r\n"
                            % ( self.__dict__[item].name,
                                self.__dict__[item].status,
                                self.__dict__[item].ptype,
                                self.__dict__[item].number ) )
           return  ''.join(out)


pumplist = [ ('p1', 'ob1', 0),
              ('p2', 'ob1', 1),
              ('p3', 'ob1', 2) ]

c_y = C_Y(pumplist)

print c_y.p1.name
print c_y.p1.status
print c_y.p1.ptype
print c_y.p1.number
print

c_y.p1.status = 1
print c_y.p1.status
print

print c_y.showall()



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  9 03:02:30 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:02:30 +0200
Subject: What about letting x.( ... ? ... ) be equivalent to ( ... x ... )
References: <mnet1.1128796230.6930.ddelay@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <diafa7$833$1@sea.gmane.org>

ddelay at club-internet.fr wrote:

> These 3 intermediate variables used to improve readability
> can introduce bugs : you have to check that b, c and d are
> not used anywhere else in the code.

if you have a fear of introducing new local variables, you have problems
that cannot be solved by syntax.

</F>





From ms at cerenity.org  Sat Oct  8 08:23:23 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:23:23 +0100
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1728.1128719692.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdpnd1vuc2oce@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.1731.1128722242.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4347b9ff$0$15081$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> 
> Well, yeah, although the correct pronunciation is apparently
> "te-tra-HEE-dra-GON".
> 
As opposed to a "te-tra-SHE-dra-GON" ?

;-)


Michael.


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Fri Oct 21 07:29:03 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:29:03 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <86wtk7ty71.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
References: <ZnD5f.636$Bf7.280@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<roy-16DA5E.22432219102005@reader2.panix.com>
	<02efl19c4n4994vtlt2ubrs7ulg4mcm8ug@4ax.com>
	<L5T5f.2585$Bf7.550@tornado.texas.rr.com>
	<1129853715.441205.322480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<86wtk7ty71.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510211220250.22209@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Mike Meyer wrote:

> "bonono at gmail.com" <bonono at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> other than haskell and SQL, the others are more or less the same to me 
>> so getting familiar with them is not too difficult.
>
> There are actually lots of good "train your brain" type languages. 
> Members of the LISP family, for instance, to learn what you can do with 
> lists, and also for how cool a real macro facility can be. I happen to 
> like Scheme, but that's just me.

I haven't actually done anything much in any LISP, but Scheme definitely 
looks like a winner to me - single namespace, generally cleaned-up 
language and library, etc.

tom

-- 
For one thing at least is almost certain about the future, namely, that very much of it will be such as we should call incredible. -- Olaf Stapledon


From chemag at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 15:15:48 2005
From: chemag at gmail.com (chemag at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2005 12:15:48 -0700
Subject: Question on re.IGNORECASE
In-Reply-To: <4357e9a6$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1129834544.533189.301780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<4357e9a6$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1129835748.938216.266780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your help. 

-myself



From kenneth.pronovici at cedar-solutions.com  Wed Oct  5 16:21:16 2005
From: kenneth.pronovici at cedar-solutions.com (Kenneth Pronovici)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:21:16 -0500
Subject: epydoc, variables and encoding
Message-ID: <20051005202116.GH643@cedar-solutions.com>

>   I found a "problem" on epydoc. If I specify an encoding, epydoc not find 
>   my global variables, and if I remove it, it work well.
>
>   code.py:
>
>      #!/usr/bin/env python
>      # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>
>      MY_VAR = None
>
>      class foo(object):
>         def __init__(self, foo):
>         """
>         Some text
>         @param foo: Pass me what you want
>         @type foo: A type
>         @return: The object
>         """
>         return foo
>
>   This not work (MY_VAR is silently skipped), but if I remove:
>   # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>
>   it see MY_VAR and put it to my html file.
>
>   Is it normal?

No, it's not normal, and I'm fairly sure it's a bug.  The problem is
that the extra encoding statement at the top of the file changes the AST
parse tree that epydoc uses, which confuses epydoc.

There seem to be two solutions.  The first is easy.  Just add a @var
entry to the module docstring, listing MY_VAR.  Epydoc seems to notice
the variable if you do that.

   #!/usr/bin/env python
   # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
   """
   @var MY_VAR: Is a variable
   """

Otherwise, you can try applying the following patch:

Index: objdoc.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/epydoc/epydoc/src/epydoc/objdoc.py,v
retrieving revision 1.93
diff -u -r1.93 objdoc.py
--- objdoc.py   12 Jan 2005 16:11:02 -0000      1.93
+++ objdoc.py   5 Oct 2005 19:56:00 -0000
@@ -1345,9 +1345,15 @@

         # Construct a list of defined variables.  To do this, we search
         # the parse tree for statements of the form "a=b" or "a=b=c" or
-        # "a,b=c" or "(a,b)=c" or "[a,b]=c".
+        # "a,b=c" or "(a,b)=c" or "[a,b]=c".  We have to make sure to
+        # strip any encoding statement off the front first, though.
         defined_variables = {}
-        for stmt in ast.totuple()[1:]:
+        stmts = ast.totuple()
+        if symbol.sym_name[stmts[0]] == "encoding_decl":
+            stmts = stmts[1:][0][1:]
+        else:
+            stmts = stmts[1:]
+        for stmt in stmts:
             dict = {}
             if _ast_match(self._EXPR_STMT_PATTERN, stmt, dict)[0]:
                 expr_stmt = dict['expr_stmt']

Maybe Edward won't like this patch, but since he seems to be unreachable
for the last six months <sigh>, you'll have to settle for my
less-than-educated guess at a fix. :)

KEN

-- 
Kenneth J. Pronovici <pronovic at ieee.org>
http://www.cedar-solutions.com/


From zen19725 at zen.co.uk  Sun Oct  9 08:50:47 2005
From: zen19725 at zen.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:50:47 +0100
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1272.1128089690.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhqr8r$tcb$00$3@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.1655.1128664871.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>
>GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
>reading it as written pretty much makes sense).

I know, let's re-write Python to make it more like COBOL! That's 
bound to be a winner!

-- 
Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk




From qwweeeit at yahoo.it  Sat Oct 29 20:25:58 2005
From: qwweeeit at yahoo.it (qwweeeit at yahoo.it)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 17:25:58 -0700
Subject: Expanding Python as a macro language
In-Reply-To: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130545600.925061.287390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130631958.683127.215300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

At first you must forgive my double posting (4 & 5 in terms of date and
4 & 7 in terms of answers). I must then thank the new comers:
Michael, Alex Martelli and Mike Meyer.

Michel wrote:
>> qwwee... at yahoo.it wrote:
>> But then I changed idea... Also if it is already one year that I try
>> to find a solution in Linux (mainly with Python or DCOP and KDE),

 > This doesn't express the question you have anywhere clearly enough.

My English is so poor that I don't understand...

 > Linux can run perfectly happily without any form of windowing
 > environment.

I know, but nowadays almost any relevant application has a GUI.

 > Do you want to replay against qt applications? KDE? wx? GTK?
 > Or send raw X11 events? The answers to these questions aren't
 > linux specific either...

I have nothing against GUI and in fact I chose Qt also if I made
only limited tests using Qt Designer. However I should prefer not
to program at low level (sending raw X11 events...).
Being a newbye I was confident that someone had already developed
a macro language for Linux...
I hoped to have found it in Python, but I was wrong.

Alex Martelli wrote:

 > Actually, if the app is running under X11 you may try to fake out a
 > keystroke event (with low level calls, but ctypes might let you use
 > it from Python). Of course, the app WILL be told that the keystroke
 > is fake, through a special flag if it cares to check for it,
 > for security reasons; but if the app doesn't specifically defend
 > itself in this way.

 > See, for example, http://xmacro.sourceforge.net/ -- I guess that
 > xmacroplay could pretty easily be adapted, or maybe even used as is
 > with an os.popen.

My answer is the same as that given to Michael about low level
programming.
But I must thank anyway Alex for giving informations to such a level
(I didn't know that under Linux there was such a level of
sophistication with the possibility for an application to discover fake
keystrokes...).

If this fake keystroke is used to fire an event (like pressing a
button), the fake flag is propagated to the action taken by the button?

For the other Alex observations (about Mac OsX and my examples of
automation centered on web automation) I have a PC, and the fact that
Python is very good at dealing with the web, doesn't help too much
in this case...
In any case a macro language like AutoIt is a general purpose
application.

At last I must thank  Mike Meyer for his suggestion to use python-xlib
to avoid low level programming...

Bye.



From vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi  Mon Oct 10 07:18:28 2005
From: vvoipio at kosh.hut.fi (Ville Voipio)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:18:28 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python reliability
References: <slrndkitm4.9ous.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<pan.2005.10.09.23.13.20.212987@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndkkasd.62en.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>
	<434A2F31.6010507@REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrndkkjg4.55nq.vvoipio@kosh.hut.fi>

In article <434A2F31.6010507 at REMOVEMEcyber.com.au>, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> If you have enough hardware grunt, you could think 
> about having three independent processes working in 
> parallel. They vote on their output, and best out of 
> three gets reported back to the user. In other words, 
> only if all three results are different does the device 
> throw its hands up in the air and say "I don't know!"

Ok, I will give you a bit more information, so that the
situation is a bit clearer. (Sorry, I cannot tell you
the exact application.)

The system is a safety system which supervises several
independent measurements (two or more). The measurements
are carried out by independent measurement instruments
which have their independent power supplies, etc.

The application communicates with the independent
measurement instruments thrgough the network. Each
instrument is queried its measurement results and
status information regularly. If the results given
by different instruments differ more than a given
amount, then an alarm is set (relay contacts opened).

Naturally, in case of equipment malfunction, the 
alarm is set. This covers a wide range of problems from
errors reported by the instrument to physical failures
or program bugs. 

The system has several weak spots. However, the basic
principle is simple: if anything goes wrong, start
yelling. A false alarm is costly, but not giving the
alarm when required is downright impossible.

I am not building a redundant system with independent
instruments voting. At this point I am trying to minimize
the false alarms. This is why I want to know if Python
is reliable enough to be used in this application.

By the postings I have seen in this thread it seems that
the answer is positive. At least if I do not try 
apply any adventorous programming techniques.

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, Dr.Tech., M.Sc. (EE)



From mde at micah.elliott.name  Fri Oct 21 12:34:30 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:34:30 -0700
Subject: Execute C code through Python
In-Reply-To: <11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1129844737.586396.61080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129861083.010702.6770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1129906892.696582.288010@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<11li3b2hsa3lhb5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20051021163430.GD27602@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 21, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm guessing you're using Windows based on the question.

+1 QOTW.

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct  6 15:08:00 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:08:00 +0200
Subject: date reformatting
References: <2387F0EED10A4545A840B231BBAAC722607F18@slcimail1.slcgov.com>
Message-ID: <di3smg$pj4$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Bell, Kevin" wrote:

> Anyone aware of existing code to turn a date string "8-15-05" into the
> number 20050815?

date = "8-15-05"

import re
m, d, y = map(int, re.match("(\d+)-(\d+)-(\d+)$", date).groups())
number = 20000000 + y*10000 + m*100 + d

print number

</F> 





From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 23:50:50 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:50:50 -0700
Subject: GUI on Macintosh
In-Reply-To: <1128717512.502956.45170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128717512.502956.45170@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <di7fmq$r47$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joshua.R.English at gmail.com wrote:
> I am using Python 2.3.3 on an Mac OS9 system.  I am looking for a build
> of Python 2.3.3+ with a built in GUI, since Tk is missing.  One day I
> hope to upgrade to a new Mac with OSX on it, so a GUI that is available
> on OS9 and OSX is preferable.  I don't want to write my GUI code from
> scratch if I ever manage to upgrade.
> 
> Any suggestions?

Try as hard as you can to get Tkinter running.

But if that fails, look at what the IDE is using. I believe the waste
module is still distributed with some versions of MacPython for OS X
(none of them recent). I don't think there's a whole lot of
documentation, but if Tkinter won't work, that's your only bet.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From tim at tt1lock.org  Wed Oct 12 17:46:12 2005
From: tim at tt1lock.org (Tim Tyler)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:46:12 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<11kh8196f3vm481@corp.supernews.com>
	<e9hhk1ttg064bvfd85ue4e56qe0ejeot7u@4ax.com>
	<868xx3m2ve.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <Io3Hsq.4pD@bath.ac.uk>
	<86irw6l1mc.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>

In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
> Tim Tyler <tim at tt1lock.org> writes:
> > In comp.lang.java.programmer Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote or quoted:
> >> Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> writes:

> >> > Read my essay.
> >> > http://mindprod.com/projects.html/mailreadernewsreader.html
> >> >
> >> > I talk around those problems.
> >> 
> >> Virus writers will love the ability to change peoples address books 
> >> remotely.
> >
> > Since - in Roedy's essay - messages are digitally signed, authority
> > to advise about any email address updates would presumably be confined
> > to those people with access to the sender's private key.
> 
> It's not confined to just people - software can do this as well. In
> particular, you should expect that the users mail agent will have to
> have access to the key, so it can automatically send out the change of
> address notice when the user changes their address (it actually needs
> it to send any mail). Viruses regularly make users mail agents do
> thing. "Change my address" becomes much more entertaining when that
> triggers sending out change of addresses notices to everyone in the
> address book. More likely, though, there'll be an API for getting the
> key so that users can change mail agents without invalidating the
> public key that everyone they correspond with has for them, and the
> virus will just use that API.

Viruses can mail out change of address messages to everyone in the
compromised machine's address book today.

Of course, viruses don't bother doing that - since it's stupid and
pointless.

If you've compromised someone's machine there are typically lots more 
rewarding things to do with it than spoof change-of-address notices.

Top of the cracker's list seems to be:

* Attack organisations;
* Relay spam;
* Attempt to compromise other machines;
-- 
__________
 |im |yler  http://timtyler.org/  tim at tt1lock.org  Remove lock to reply.


From johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 18 04:42:32 2005
From: johnnyandfiona at hotmail.com (Johnny Lee)
Date: 18 Oct 2005 01:42:32 -0700
Subject: Question on class member in python
In-Reply-To: <divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1129537638.714752.120290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<divnpc$383$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1129624952.836150.159520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

But I still wonder what's the difference between the A().getMember and
A().member besides the style



From enas_khalil at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 08:28:00 2005
From: enas_khalil at yahoo.com (enas khalil)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:28:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Where is the error
Message-ID: <20051011122801.686.qmail@web30511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hello,


when i run the following code to Read and tokenize data from a tagged text as follows :


from nltk.corpus import brown
from nltk.tagger import TaggedTokenizer
from nltk.tokenizer import *
tagged_txt_str=open('corpus.txt' ).read()
tagged_txt_token=Token(TEXT=tagged_txt_str)
TaggedTokenizer.tokenize(tagged_txt_token)
print tagged_txt_token

 


i got the following error :
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\My Documents\TAGGING.PY", line 3, in -toplevel-
from nltk.tagger import TaggedTokenizer
ImportError: cannot import name TaggedTokenizer


 

 

 

could anyone help me 

thanks in advance

enas





		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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From pydecker at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 12:50:19 2005
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:50:19 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.1384.1128353462.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7rc0f.11261$Un.585792@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <ca55a9900510030950m66bd4661p6c5c902473eacd97@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/05, Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> The default of this list is not to make conversations private; in fact
> the list doesn't have any default. It's you who chooses to send replies
> to the original author, to the list, or both, by choosing which button
> to press in your mail client.

Interesting: which button do I press to reply only to the list? I'm
using Gmail, and it only has 'Reply' and 'Reply to all' as options.
One sends a private reply; the other sends 2 replies. I checked all my
other mail clients, and they work the same way.

Setting the default Reply-To: to the list means that 'Reply' sends
just to the list (the desired behavior most of the time), and 'Reply
to all' sends 2 copies.

I'm on several other lists, some of which default replies to the list,
and others which default to the sender. I've *never* seen threads like
this on the former, while such threads appear like clockwork on the
latter. Draw your own conclusion.

> Not that it matters that much to me, since I read practically all
> mailing lists via gmane.org. That turns the lists into newsgroups, where
> the reply button (follow-up, more accurately) does send the reply to the
> newsgroup.

So the answer is to not use the email interface, since the newsgroup
interface actually gets it right!  :)

--

# p.d.


From gregpinero at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 12:19:37 2005
From: gregpinero at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gregory_Pi=F1ero?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:19:37 -0400
Subject: Windows memory pointers in Python?
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510120904v6bb0d008ub32a00659efd6699@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312cfe2b0510120904v6bb0d008ub32a00659efd6699@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <312cfe2b0510120919w370fc423w4ae050e4e9d5b4da@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I think I've got it after a bit of research:

c_char_p(address) seems to do the trick. Thus it would be:
ctypes.c_char_p(address)

Of course still let me know if this is somehow WRONG, or if there is a
better way, but this seems good. Thanks again ctypes!
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

-Greg

On 10/12/05, Gregory Pi?ero <gregpinero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm really lost of on this one. How can I turn this (VB?) code into
> Python? Basically I call a function exposed from a dll and it returns me
> what I believe is a pointer to a location in memory? Now I need to read that
> area to get the string I need. This link has the solution but it is written
> in VB:
>
> http://www.contactreview.com/mb/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15670/an/0/page/14(it's the third post down)
>
> I have to think Python would have something similiar.
>
> Below is my relevant source code just in case you need that too.
>
> I really appriciate any help anyone might have.
>
> --
> Gregory Pi?ero
> Chief Innovation Officer
> Blended Technologies
> (www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
>
> #---My code: (testing the GOLDMINE API)
> from ctypes import *
> windll.LoadLibrary('GM6S32.dll')
> windll.GM6S32.GMW_LoadBDE
> ('J:\\','J:\\GMBase\\',r'J:\\Common\\','user','pw')
> windll.GM6S32.GMW_NV_SetValue(container,"AccountNo", "(310)555-1212")
> #finally, I call a function to see what I stored:
> windll.GM6S32.GMW_NV_GetValue(container, "AccountNo", "'(none)'")
> #it returns 16236360
> #Now I need to access the string related to this somewhere ...
>
>
>
>


--
Gregory Pi?ero
Chief Innovation Officer
Blended Technologies
(www.blendedtechnologies.com <http://www.blendedtechnologies.com>)
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From eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 11 02:01:45 2005
From: eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl (Eric Nieuwland)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:01:45 +0200
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
In-Reply-To: <1128986126.7aab88bc9d9a2f56ea6d61ec086380ec@teranews>
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1655.1128664871.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>
	<mailman.1860.1128980285.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128986126.7aab88bc9d9a2f56ea6d61ec086380ec@teranews>
Message-ID: <6c1c850ec2c9f05c6884f4c33399c776@xs4all.nl>

Dave Hansen wrote:
> And Basic, and Fortran, and Lisp, and just about any programming
> language you care to name, including python (if Condition: Affirmative
> else: Negative).
>
> Not to mention that the sequence is identical to execution order.
> It's just plain goofy to have to scan to the middle of an expression
> to find out what happens first, then depending on the result of that,
> skipping back over what you just skipped.

1 word: Perl

> FWIW, in over 20 years of C programming, I use it pretty rarely too,
> though I never had to look it up after I first saw it in K&R. It only
> very rarely holds any advantage over a simple if/else statement,
> especially in modern compilers. It's most useful in macros, which
> python doesn't even have.

same time span and I used it zillions of times

==eric



From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 22:10:20 2005
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (stewart.midwinter at gmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 19:10:20 -0700
Subject: Bad magic no. in python zipfile
In-Reply-To: <1OudnVsv95XVVdDeRVn-rw@powergate.ca>
References: <1129168338.457437.276820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1OudnVsv95XVVdDeRVn-rw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1129255820.418348.24070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

okay, I've figured out the problem - the zip file was being mangled by
a file transfer.  I was fetching a remote python-generated zip file in
8k chunks, and then writing those chunks to a file.  At first I was
using an array to store the data in, and had the 'bad magic number'
problem.  This may have been due to writing the chunks out to a local
file as strings, which would definitely have corrupted the file; I also
noticed that the local copy was several kb larger, probably due to the
line endings being added.  When I took care to write the file as a
binary file, all was well. case closed.

BTW, regarding using zipfile under Python 1.5.2... I found zipfile.py
in Python 1.6, but it wouldn't run.  You need to build Python 1.5 with
the binascii.c and zlibmodule.c from Python 1.6, since a CRC32 method
has been added to those modules.  This was more trouble than it was
worth, in the end. 

S



From lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com  Wed Oct 12 21:47:23 2005
From: lsumnler at uniqueinsuranceco.com (LenS)
Date: 12 Oct 2005 18:47:23 -0700
Subject: Python adodb
In-Reply-To: <434db297$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <1129158246.494302.140670@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<434db297$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <1129168043.315586.138040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

You also might want to take a look at;

http://www.mayukhbose.com/python/ado/index.php

I found it very helpful

LenS



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 17:18:57 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:18:57 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <1128709915.677e761b4ee3431140a6964c46a02b82@teranews>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<11kd19ajdtkoi6f@corp.supernews.com>
	<1128709915.677e761b4ee3431140a6964c46a02b82@teranews>
Message-ID: <200510071618.57431.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 07 October 2005 01:31 pm, Dave Hansen wrote:
> >Don't get me started on _that_ one.  I found it particularly
> >horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it "nucular" -- he had
> >studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at
> >least be able pronounce the word.

Well, there's your problem. He learned from engineers. Engineers
can't speak English.  I was instructed in my "Engineering Statics"
class that a three-dimensional structure connecting non-coplanar
points in space was called a "tetrahedragon".

I am not kidding.  This actually happened.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From joerg.schuster at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 04:06:37 2005
From: joerg.schuster at gmail.com (Joerg Schuster)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 01:06:37 -0700
Subject: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130160675.270886.208420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1130312136.411976.118780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2579.1130313681.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1130313997.136536.299570@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

So what?



From stijndesaeger at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 21:47:26 2005
From: stijndesaeger at gmail.com (vdrab)
Date: 23 Oct 2005 18:47:26 -0700
Subject: High Order Messages in Python
References: <1130015536.273136.295800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<435bb315$0$15040$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Message-ID: <1130118446.643842.178950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

On a (somewhat) related note,
I've always wondered whether it is possible to emulate ruby blocks
using a python generator '+ alpha'. In my limited understanding of the
ruby block, the generator can inject values into a block, I suppose,
but what is the block itself? can it be a function? a class instance?
what would it look like? I am sure someone must have played around with
this. 
any pointers?
cheers,
v.



From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Mon Oct 31 03:41:02 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:41:02 +0100
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <4363fdd4$0$2107$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.28.23.41.14.445842@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<4363fdd4$0$2107$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <dk4lau$4j0$1@sadr.dfn.de>

David Rasmussen wrote:
<snip>
> If you must know, the above one-liner actually counts the number of 
> frames in an MPEG2 file. I want to know this number for a number of 
> files for various reasons. I don't want it to take forever.
<snip>

Don't you risk getting more "frames" than the file actually have? What 
if the encoded data happens to have the magic byte values for something 
else?

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From riplin at Azonic.co.nz  Sun Oct  9 16:12:43 2005
From: riplin at Azonic.co.nz (riplin at Azonic.co.nz)
Date: 9 Oct 2005 13:12:43 -0700
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <1128888762.964727.17750@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

> My grandma doesn't put captions in her photo album,
> and she doesn't need captions on her photos in email.

She doesn't need captions in the album because she will explain the
pictures, at length, every single one of them, to anyone who comes
within grabbing distance.

> "Here's Johnny with the dog. Here is Johnny with the
> dog again. This one is Johnny on his own. Here is the
> dog. Oh look, it is Johnny with the dog again --  ...

If your photos are so banal then only people who would recognise the
people would care about them.

Captions are for people who won't recognise the subject of the photo.
When you send a photo of a house to Granma is she supposed to just
_know_ that it your new house, or the one across the road, or the one
that burnt down last week ?



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Oct  7 17:54:48 2005
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:54:48 -0500
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks,
	Americans hear a "British accent"...
In-Reply-To: <11kdpnd1vuc2oce@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1728.1128719692.509.python-list@python.org>
	<11kdpnd1vuc2oce@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200510071654.48040.hancock@anansispaceworks.com>

On Friday 07 October 2005 04:21 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> 
> > Well, there's your problem. He learned from engineers. Engineers
> > can't speak English.  I was instructed in my "Engineering Statics"
> > class that a three-dimensional structure connecting non-coplanar
> > points in space was called a "tetrahedragon".

[typo: the word "four" is missing above in the definition]

> Watch out for the fire-breathing kind.  They're especially
> dangerous since they have multiple faces, so there's no
> "behind" from which to sneak up upon them from... of... to.....

Well, yeah, although the correct pronunciation is apparently
"te-tra-HEE-dra-GON".

(Wishing I had figured out how to type IPA symbols so you could
fully appreciate that ;-) ).

It was very distracting, though, subvocalizing "tetrahedron" constantly
during this guy's lectures.  I suppose that might've contributed
to my poor grade in this class (I left engineering altogether very
shortly thereafter).

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From noway at sorry.com  Mon Oct 31 19:28:12 2005
From: noway at sorry.com (Giovanni Bajo)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:28:12 GMT
Subject: 'super' to only be used for diamond inheritance problems?
References: <s4m9f.25186$m%6.9640@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <wEy9f.40273$Pe2.739351@twister2.libero.it>

Alex Hunsley wrote:

> I've seen a few discussion about the use of 'super' in Python,
> including the opinion that 'super' should only be used to solve
> inheritance diamond problem. (And that a constructor that wants to
> call the superclass methods should just call them by name and forget
> about super.) What is people's opinion on this? Does it make any
> sense?


I personally consider super a half-failure in Python. Some of my reasons are
cited here:
http://fuhm.org/super-harmful/

-- 
Giovanni Bajo




From mde at micah.elliott.name  Mon Oct 31 17:08:41 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:08:41 -0800
Subject: Rename files with numbers
In-Reply-To: <1130789205.862429.10090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130776390.085587.116270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2740.1130781978.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130784747.373637.108040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2744.1130787080.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1130789205.862429.10090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051031220841.GF2575@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 31, dudufigueiredo at gmail.com wrote:
> but my focus is to learn how to acess a folder and rename all files in
> this folder.

This is a little more flexible than my last post, and it does the
whole job::

    #! /usr/bin/env python

    import glob, os, string

    def fix_ugly_song_names(songdir, band, spacerepl='_'):
        """Rename an ugly MP3 file name to a beautified shell-correct
        name.  Only works for files named like "03 song name.mp3".
        Use `spacerepl` to alter space replacement character.
        WARNING: no error-handling!
        """
        # Begin working in specified `songdir`.
        os.chdir(songdir)
        # Shell-unfriendly characters made into a string.
        badchars = ''.join( set(string.punctuation) - set('-_+.~') )
        # Identity table for later translation (removal of `badchars`).
        tbl = string.maketrans('', '')
        # MP3 files in `songdir` having ugly characters.
        uglies = glob.glob("*.mp3")
        # Make some step-by-step changes to build `pretties` list.
        pretties = []
        for ugly in uglies:
            song, ext = os.path.splitext(ugly)
            song = song.translate(tbl, badchars)
            song = song.replace(" ", spacerepl)
            song = song.title()
            song = band+spacerepl+"-"+spacerepl+song[3:]
            songext = song + ext
            pretties.append(songext)
        # Rename each file from ugly to pretty.
        for ugly, pretty in zip(uglies, pretties):
            if __debug__:
                print ugly, '-->', pretty
            else:
                os.rename(ugly, pretty)

So for you to use spaces, just call with something like this::

    fix_ugly_song_names('/var/mp3/pop/The_Beatles/Rubber_Soul',
                        'The Beatles',
                        spacerepl=' ')

I used the __debug__ gate to allow you to just see what it will do::

    $ ls -1
    01 drive my car.mp3
    02 norwegian wood.mp3
    03 you won't see me.mp3
    04 nowhere man.mp3
    mvmp3.py
    $ python ./mvmp3.py
    01 drive my car.mp3 --> The Beatles - Drive My Car.mp3
    02 norwegian wood.mp3 --> The Beatles - Norwegian Wood.mp3
    03 you won't see me.mp3 --> The Beatles - You Wont See Me.mp3
    04 nowhere man.mp3 --> The Beatles - Nowhere Man.mp3

And then to actually do it with the non-__debug__ path::

    $ python -O ./mvmp3.py
    $ ls -1
    mvmp3.py
    The Beatles - Drive My Car.mp3
    The Beatles - Norwegian Wood.mp3
    The Beatles - Nowhere Man.mp3
    The Beatles - You Wont See Me.mp3

If you want to keep the `badchars` in the file names, then you will
have to do *more* work since `song.title()` won't be able to do the
work for you.

Now I need to go beautify my collection.  :-)

-- 
_ _     ___
|V|icah |- lliott  http://micah.elliott.name  mde at micah.elliott.name
" "     """


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Oct 13 12:58:16 2005
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:58:16 +0200
Subject: Perl-Python-a-Day: Sorting
References: <1128937897.500935.254770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<87oe5xfyng.fsf@qrnik.zagroda> <7xpsqdtwv4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<diek5m$336$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <877jch9wwn.fsf@qrnik.zagroda>

Abdulaziz Ghuloum <aghuloum at c-s-remove-dashes.indiana.edu> writes:

> Python FAQs contain an entry to the schwartzian transform.
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming.html#i-want-to-do-a-complicated-sort-can-you-do-a-schwartzian-transform-in-python

This entry is obsolete: it should mention the 'key' option of the
standard sort method.

-- 
   __("<         Marcin Kowalczyk
   \__/       qrczak at knm.org.pl
    ^^     http://qrnik.knm.org.pl/~qrczak/


From sjmaster at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 14:25:56 2005
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (Steve M)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 11:25:56 -0700
Subject: MS Word mail merge automation
References: <1128115390.643636.281610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128536756.871668.289410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I was finally able to get things working right, so I thought I'd stick
an example here for posterity.

"""An example of a MS Word mail merge using the COM interface.
In order for this script to work you must first run the COM Makepy
utility and select
"Microsoft Word 10.0 Object Library (8.2)" or whatever your version of
Word is.
The template must also be set up with merge fields corresponding to the
data source.
"""
import os, win32com.client

doc_template_name = os.path.abspath('template.doc')
data_source_name = os.path.abspath('record23.csv')
doc_final_name = os.path.abspath('record23.doc')

app = win32com.client.Dispatch("Word.Application")
doc_template = app.Documents.Open(doc_template_name)

mm = doc_template.MailMerge

#attach data source to template
mm.OpenDataSource(data_source_name)

#merge just one record - this step may be redundant
mm.DataSource.FirstRecord = 1
mm.DataSource.LastRecord = 1

#send the merge result to a new document
mm.Destination = win32com.client.constants.wdSendToNewDocument

#merge
mm.Execute()

#apparently app.Documents is like a stack
doc_final = app.Documents[0]

#save our new document
doc_final.SaveAs(doc_final_name)

#cleanup
doc_final.Close()
doc_template.Close()
app.Quit()



From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Oct 11 12:05:23 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:05:23 +0200
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <1128888628.643764@yasure>
References: <20051008040614.47429.qmail@web30607.mail.mud.yahoo.com><mailman.1745.1128757753.509.python-list@python.org><43495259$0$29124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<178B879D-FDB6-458C-BE00-A03820D98703@advfn.com>
	<mailman.1799.1128885270.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128888628.643764@yasure>
Message-ID: <digns3$s2c$1@wake.carmen.se>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Quoth "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>:
> | Alex Stapleton wrote
> |
> | > Except it is interpreted.
> |
> | except that it isn't.  Python source code is compiled to byte code, which
> | is then executed by a virtual machine.  if the byte code for a module is up
> | to date, the Python runtime doesn't even look at the source code.
> 
> Fair to say that byte code is interpreted?  Seems to require an
> application we commonly call an interpreter.

It's fair to say that Python works just the same as Java in
this regard. The myth seems to be that Python is interpreted
in the same way as a unix shell script, while Java does some-
thing much better.

 From http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602

"""Both Java and the .NET languages are "semi-compiled" (or, looking at 
the flip side of the coin, "semi-interpreted"). By this I mean that 
source code is compiled into intermediate-level code and then run by a 
combination interpreter/just-in-time compiler. With Java, the 
intermediate language is called bytecode and the interpreter/compiler is 
called a Java Virtual Machine (JVM). Source code in the .NET world is 
compiled into the Microsoft Intermediate Language (MSIL) and is run on 
the .NET Common Language Runtime (CLR) engine."""
...
"""I wanted to find out how semi-compiled languages compare to fully 
interpreted languages like Python, Perl or PHP."""

The big difference between Java and Python in regards to this benchmark
is that Python uses dynamic typing, which means that code such as
"a = a + i" must be capable to handle any concievable value of a and i.
In a naive benchmark like this, dynamic typing is just a disadvantage.
In real software development, it's often a big advantage, mainly in
terms of programmer productivity and program size.


From andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com  Wed Oct  5 07:42:05 2005
From: andreas.zwinkau at googlemail.com (beza1e1)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 04:42:05 -0700
Subject: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <4343b0d5$1@news.home.net.pl>
References: <1128508770.727391.313300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4343b0d5$1@news.home.net.pl>
Message-ID: <1128512525.894377.275340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for you answer! This copy trick is the most elegant solution i
think.



From gordonb.8utmv at burditt.org  Wed Oct 12 21:42:49 2005
From: gordonb.8utmv at burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:42:49 -0000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<Io9oH0.3Ap@bath.ac.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.12.23.12.44.967964@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<c8ark1hhutuo158vc3asf1ptko0mk5jm7k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <11kresp8j9hl9aa@corp.supernews.com>

>I would say by extrapolating the problem of spam and snooping that the
>next level of email software needs to concentrate on the following:
>
>1. routine and transparent encryption.

OK, but the Feds are really going to hate that.

>2. making spam no longer economic.  Blocking all spam is, even in
>theory, impossible.  I sometimes read a message and am ambivalent
>myself about whether I wanted to read or receive it.  The key is to
>provide efficient, transparent spam solutions.  They can be layered to
>filter higher and higher percentages of mail depending on how big your
>spam problem is.

One way of making spam non-economic would be making it difficult to
use throw-away identities.  If I block by someone's identity, it
stays blocked.

>3. prevent phishing.  When PayPal sends you an email, you want to know
>for sure it really is from PayPal.  This means corporate users at
>least will all have digital ids, and all emails will be digitally
>signed.

I'm assuming that email is supposed to be useful and usable for
*SAFELY* conducting a conversation (or negotiations) with someone
out to kill you or steal from you.  (Consider union vs. management,
any husband vs.  his ex-wife, the IRS vs. everyone, whistleblower
vs. employer, etc.)

>4. status tracking. Unless blocked by the receiver, the sender knows
>if his message has been receiveived/read.

I consider this an unacceptable risk to the receiver, unless the
acknowledgement is manually initiated.  It also risks a lot of
confusion regarding what constitutes "read", especially if the user
saved it into a file without displaying it.

I'm assuming here that there are some people (e.g. George W. Bush) who
will attempt to try to turn an IP address into a geographic location
and launch missiles at it when he finds out Osama Bin Laden read his
email.  At least when Osama *sends* email, he can click the send
button and run like hell.

>5. making it impossible for any incoming email to mount any sort of
>attack. the only parts the email software processes are the data
>parts. Any enclosed programs must be explicitly installed. The email
>software would warn if any code were not digitally signed with proper
>certificate to identify the author.

In HTML, that means NO links, NO Javascript, NO forms, and NO references
to other files.  Reading your email should not generate hits on
anything specified by the sender.

					Gordon L. Burditt


From uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de  Thu Oct 27 13:37:38 2005
From: uval at rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Daniel_Sch=FCle?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:37:38 +0200
Subject: how do i run another script from my python script
In-Reply-To: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130431172.443751.230730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djr33t$aeo$1@news2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Steve already answeared to your question, regaring PHP script

if this would be python script, you could run it by import'ing it

#a.py
print "in a"
------------

#b.py
import a	# prints "in a"
print "in b"
------------

and of course other solutions
import os
if os.fork()==0:
    os.execv("/bin/cmd_here", ["-blabla"])
else:
    # parent here

or maybe using threading

 >>> class FileWatcher(th.Thread):
...     def __init__(self, filename):
...             th.Thread.__init__(self)
...             self.filename = filename
...     def run(self):
...             import time
...             from os.path import exists
...             while not exists(self.filename):
...                     time.sleep(0.5)
...                     print "not there"
...
 >>> f = FileWatcher("/pool/xyz")
 >>> f.start()
 >>> not there
not there
not there
not there
not there
not there
not there
not there
not there
not there
not there
not there

 >>>


hth, Daniel



From sam at email-scan.com  Wed Oct  5 19:02:57 2005
From: sam at email-scan.com (Sam)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:02:57 -0500
Subject: Python eats gator.
Message-ID: <cone.1128553380.42802.26947.500@commodore.email-scan.com>

http://www.wnbc.com/family/5060215/detail.html

I know there's an on-topic joke in here somewhere, but I'm having some 
problem finding it, at the moment.

You may take a crack at it, if you'd like?

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From lasse at vkarlsen.no  Sat Oct 29 08:51:11 2005
From: lasse at vkarlsen.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lasse_V=E5gs=E6ther_Karlsen?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:51:11 +0200
Subject: how to associate files with application
In-Reply-To: <ark4m1lpbmfl8s8l9vbkh0vl6guvclbd90@4ax.com>
References: <1130439184.801178.280190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djsoqs$jk$3@sadr.dfn.de>
	<E_p8f.7819$ki7.583245@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ark4m1lpbmfl8s8l9vbkh0vl6guvclbd90@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <y4CdnaLCdefJ7f7eRVnzvA@telenor.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:48:27 -0400, "Colin J. Williams"
> <cjw at sympatico.ca> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> 
> 
>>I'm no Windows expert but I think that, using Windows Explorer, one can, 
>>with a right mouse click, select "Open With".
<snip>

There are several ways to do this using Windows Explorer. I was under 
the assumption the OP wanted to know how he could automate it since that 
is what you typically want to do with applications you write.

-- 
Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen
http://usinglvkblog.blogspot.com/
mailto:lasse at vkarlsen.no
PGP KeyID: 0x2A42A1C2


From raims at dot.com  Sun Oct 30 05:02:27 2005
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:02:27 +0100
Subject: query a port
References: <1130642480.233982.197760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm96hj.ae3.raims@voodoo.myself>

Il 2005-10-30, eight02645999 at yahoo.com <eight02645999 at yahoo.com> ha scritto:
> hi
> in python, how do one query a port to see whether it's up or not?
> thanks
>

Have a look at this:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/286240


-- 
Lawrence
http://www.oluyede.org/blog


From bobrien18 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 19 22:53:36 2005
From: bobrien18 at yahoo.com (KraftDiner)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 19:53:36 -0700
Subject: destroy your self????
Message-ID: <1129776816.148308.210460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

if I create an object like...

obj = None
...
obj = anObject()

can obj set itself to none in some method of the class?



From derek.perriero at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 15:06:46 2005
From: derek.perriero at gmail.com (Derek Perriero)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:06:46 -0400
Subject: SMB Authentication Module
Message-ID: <17fc20160510071206n55c3784awd6eb986eb723be36@mail.gmail.com>

This may be a simple question to answer, but is there any module that will
let you authenticate against a SMB server? An equivalent package in perl
would be the Authen::SMB. That is the realms of what I am looking for, but
in Python.

-Derek Perriero

--
Perriero, Derek
derek.perriero at gmail.com
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From jim.eggleston at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 09:05:20 2005
From: jim.eggleston at gmail.com (jim.eggleston at gmail.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2005 06:05:20 -0700
Subject: Debugging with SciTE
In-Reply-To: <1130567282.404337.61950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130567282.404337.61950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1130591120.133458.52040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Based on information from  Jarek Zgoda in another thread on the Windows
USERPROFILE environment variable, debug.py should be:
import sys
from pdb import pm, set_trace
from inspect import getmembers
if sys.platform == 'win32':
    import os
    os.environ['HOME'] = os.environ['USERPROFILE']
del sys.argv[0]
execfile(sys.argv[0])



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Oct 26 15:23:49 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:23:49 -0500
Subject: Python 2.3.4, Berkeley db 1.85, db file format not recognized
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.26.18.07.26.892076@wolf.com>
References: <pan.2005.10.26.18.07.26.892076@wolf.com>
Message-ID: <17247.55237.444550.291681@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Dan> import bsddb
    Dan> bsddb.hashopen("access.db")

    Dan> but I get:
    Dan> bsddb._db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- access.db: unexpected file type or format')

    Dan> .... Any suggestions on how to read this file?
 
See if the bsddb185 module  is available:

    % python
    Python 2.5a0 (#94, Oct  8 2005, 06:49:04)
    [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)] on darwin
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    impo>>> import bsddb
    >>> import bsddb185
    >>> dir(bsddb185)
    ['__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'btopen', 'error', 'hashopen', 'open',
    'rnopen']
    >>> dir(bsddb)
    ['UserDict', '_DBWithCursor', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__',
    '__name__', '__path__', '__version__', '_bsddb', '_checkflag', '_db',
    '_iter_mixin', '_openDBEnv', 'btopen', 'db', 'error', 'hashopen', 'os',
    'ref', 'rnopen', 'sys']

If the old libdb.a stuff is available, the bsddb185 module should have been
built automagically.

Skip





From davids at webmaster.com  Sun Oct 16 01:25:48 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:25:48 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <diso8v$ulr$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber at 130.133.1.4...

> Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web based,
> and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions matter? It
> doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example, OpenOffice. Yet
> people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one reason is that people
> like to belong to a group. So even if it really doesn't matter which OS
> you are going to use to access a web application, or even which browser,
> people will pick a certain browser, and a certain OS, just because.

    You don't get it. The point is, you can pick any Linux distribution and 
still use the same applications. This is exactly what Microsoft *doesn't* 
want. They want applications to be locked to Microsoft OSes. For then to do 
this, applications have to be as tied to the OS as possible. The browser as 
a target platform threatened this Microsoft vision, so Microsoft reacted by 
trying to corner the browser market and balkanize Java.

    You can agree or disagree with the rationale and by sympathetic with or 
antagonistic to Microsoft's motive. But these are historical facts.

    DS




From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 13:43:23 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:43:23 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <g5q633-3a2.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqgq3$5av$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <66u633-etj.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Espen Myrland wrote:

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     What is an "illegal monopoly"?

> The opposite of a "legal monopoly". For example, in Norway we have
> "Vinmonopolet", a monopoly which are the only one allowed to sell
> wine and spirits to the public.

    Seriously, I have no idea what you he means by "illegal monopoly". I 
understand that one can be granted a monopoly by law, however not being 
granted a monopoly by law does not make the monopoly illegal. Is he claiming 
the monopoly itself violated some law?

    For example, I know what "illegal monopoly maintenance" is. It's 
illegally maintaining a monopoly. But it's not maintaining an illegal 
monopoly. As the appeals court put it, "the monopoly in this case was not 
found to have been illegally acquired, but only to have been illegally 
maintained." Both the district and appellate courts characterized 
Microsoft's monopoly as "lawfully-acquired".

    Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it's an important point that no court 
ever found that Microsoft illegally acquired a monopoly. So to characterize 
the monopoly itself as "illegal" is simply erroneous.

    DS




From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 18:58:42 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:58:42 +1000
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<41hhk195gcipfarnqu85ggs606aqi89ea1@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.10.54.30.409338@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<Io3H5w.4BF@bath.ac.uk> <2dadnfArEfWwvdTeRVnzvA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.15.40.32.740000@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<0trik1ldrtvuhsdvoai4a7h34q7la1pehl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.22.58.40.603766@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:40:30 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:

> Imagine a main sending emailed floor tile samples to his wife on a
> business trip for her final veto and not being allowed to caption
> them.

I don't have to imagine it, I've done it, more or less something like this:

"Dear wifey,

here are five pictures of the tiles I like. My favourite is tile02.jpg.
They are all in the price range we can afford. You pick the one you think
suits best, then call Freddy at TileMart on blah blah blah and order them.
We'll need X square metres."

Sheesh Roedy, to listen to you go anyone would think that human
communication was impossible before HTML email was invented.


-- 
Steven.



From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct 29 16:36:20 2005
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:36:20 -0000
Subject: popen2
References: <djtm4c$uld$1@online.de>
	<1130524659.070912.256550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dju0u9$h90$1@online.de> <m2ll0cscx6.fsf@ordesa.local>
	<11m6tj5q9rskma1@corp.supernews.com> <m2hdb0rxv2.fsf@ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <11m7na4je921j89@corp.supernews.com>

On 2005-10-29, Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:

>>GE> That would require that the application know about the named
>>GE> pipe and open it.  I don't think there is any way to swap a
>>GE> pipe in for stdin/stdout once a process is running.
>
> Sure. 'myprogram' should be designed to communicate through a
> named pipe, or be called with named pipe(s) as stdin/stdout.

That's all well and good, but it's got nothing to do with the
OP's problem: he's got a program that's already running and he
wants to write a Python program that can "attach" pipes to that
already running program's stdin/stdout.  I know there's no way
to do that under Unix.  IIRC, the OP is running Win32, and I'm
not quite as confident that it can't be dont under Win32, but I
don't think it can.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  With YOU, I can be
                                  at               MYSELF... We don't NEED
                               visi.com            Dan Rather...


From usgog at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 12:37:09 2005
From: usgog at yahoo.com (usgog at yahoo.com)
Date: 25 Oct 2005 09:37:09 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: string replace
Message-ID: <1130258229.662596.228630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I have a config file with the following contents:
service A = {
  params {
    dir = "c:\test",
    username = "test",
    password = "test"
  }
}

I want to find username and replace the value with another value. I
don't know what the username value in advance though. How to do it in
python?



From john at castleamber.com  Sun Oct 16 01:26:51 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 16 Oct 2005 05:26:51 GMT
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3slv274ug.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C49B3F1ADcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<m3k6ge70vo.fsf@invalid.address>
	<Xns96F0C9445F383castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<pan.2005.10.16.03.09.33.809569@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns96F148C7D0F7castleamber@130.133.1.4>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:47:09 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> Ok, let me spell it out for you: If all your applications are web
>> based, and the OS shouldn't matter, why do Linux distributions
>> matter? It doesn't matter which one you use to run, for example,
>> OpenOffice. Yet people pick a certain distribution. Why? Well, one
>> reason is that people like to belong to a group. So even if it really
>> doesn't matter which OS you are going to use to access a web
>> application, or even which browser, people will pick a certain
>> browser, and a certain OS, just because. 
> 
> Dude, do you think that Microsoft gives a rat's tail[1] for what a
> handful of computer enthusiasts and geek programmers pick?

So you missed the point again. 

> They want
> to control the business world, and believe me, corporations don't pick
> the OS of their computer because they want to join a community, they
> pick the OS that lets them run the applications that their business
> needs to run.

So basically you're saying that even if web based applications become 
the shit, everybody keeps running Microsoft? So I am right :-)
 
> Operating-system independent browser-based applications threaten the
> ability of Microsoft to tie that choice to Windows.

Ah, sure, you really think that a business is going to run office 
applications on a web server? Are they already moving to Linux with 
OpenOffice (free as in speech?).

> That is why MS
> decided to bundle IE with Windows and (try to) kill off Netscape as a
> competitor. 

So and when exactly do we see the web based office?

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct  5 00:38:08 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 00:38:08 -0400
Subject: Newbie Text Processing Question
References: <1128481479.661502.14020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <867jcsinnz.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

gshepherd281 at earthlink.net writes:
> I'm a total newbie to Python so any and all advice is greatly
> appreciated.

Well, I've got some for you.

> I'm trying to use regular expressions to process text in an SGML file
> but only in one section.

This is generally a bad idea. SGML family languages aren't easy to
parse - even the ones that were designed to be easy to parse - and
generally require very complex regular expessions to get right. It may
be that your SGML data can be parsed by the re you use, but there
are almost certainly valid SGML documents that your parser will not
properly parse.

In general, it's better to use a parser for the language in question.

> So the input would look like this:
>
> <ch-part no="I"><title>RESEARCH GUIDE
> <sec-main no="1.01"><title>content
> <para>content
>
> <sec-main no="2.01"><title>content
> <para>content
>
>
> <ch-part no="II"><title>FORMS
> <sec-main no="3.01"><title>content
>
> <sec-sub1 no="1"><title>content
> <para>content
>
> <sec-sub2 no="1"><title>content
> <para>content


This is funny-looking SGML. Are the the end tags really optional for
all the tag types?

> But no matter what I try I end up changing the entire file rather than
> just one part.

Other have explained why you can't do that, so I'll skip it.

> Here's what I've come up with so far but I can't think of anything
> else.
>
> ***
>
> import os, re
> setpath = raw_input("Enter the path where the program should run: ")
> print
>
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
>      fname = files
>      for fname in files:
>           inputFile = file(os.path.join(root,fname), 'r')
>           line = inputFile.read()
>           inputFile.close()
>
>
>           chpart_pattern = re.compile(r'<ch-part
> no=\"[A-Z]{1,4}\"><title>(RESEARCH)', re.IGNORECASE)

This makes a number of assumptions that are invalid about SGML in
general, but may be valid for your sample text - how attributes are
quoted, the lack of line breaks, which can be added without changing
the content, and the format of the "no" attribute.

>           while 1:
>                if chpart_pattern.search(line):
>                     line = re.sub(r"<sec-main
> no=(\"[0-9]*.[0-9]*\")><title>(.*)", r"<sec-main
> no=\1><title>\2\n<biblio>", line)

Ditto.

Heren's an sgmllib solution that gets does what you do above, except
it writes it to standard out:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
from sgmllib import SGMLParser

datain = """
<ch-part no="I"><title>RESEARCH GUIDE
<sec-main no="1.01"><title>content
<para>content

<sec-main no="2.01"><title>content
<para>content


<ch-part no="II"><title>FORMS
<sec-main no="3.01"><title>content

<sec-sub1 no="1"><title>content
<para>content

<sec-sub2 no="1"><title>content
<para>content
"""

class Parser(SGMLParser):

    def __init__(self):
        # install the handlers with funny names
        setattr(self, "start_ch-part", self.handle_ch_part)

        # And start with chapter 0
        self.ch_num = 0

        SGMLParser.__init__(self)

    def format_attributes(self, attributes):
        return ['%s="%s"' % pair for pair in attributes]

    def unknown_starttag(self, tag, attributes):
        taglist = self.format_attributes(attributes)
        taglist.insert(0, tag)
        sys.stdout.write('<%s>' % ' '.join(taglist))

    def handle_data(self, data):
        sys.stdout.write(data)

    def handle_ch_part(self, attributes):
        """This should be called start_ch-part, but, well, you know."""

        self.unknown_starttag('ch-part', attributes)
        for name, value in attributes:
            if name == 'no':
                self.ch_num = value

    def start_para(self, attributes):
        if self.ch_num == 'I':
            sys.stdout.write('<biblio>\n')
        self.unknown_starttag('para', attributes)


parser  = Parser()
parser.feed(datain)
parser.close()


sgmllib isn't a very good SGML parser - it was written to support
htmllib, and really only handles that subset of sgml well. In
particular, it doesn't really understand DTDs, so can't handle the
missing end tags in your example. You may be able to work around that.

If you can coerce this to XML, then the xml tools in the standard
library will work well. For HTML, I like BeautifulSoup, but that's
mostly because it deals with all the crud on the net that is passed
off as HTML. For SGML - well, I don't have a good answer. Last time I
had to deal with real SGML, I used a C parser that spat out a parse
tree that could be parsed properly.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 01:37:31 2005
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:37:31 -0700
Subject: Hygenic Macros
In-Reply-To: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
References: <J6CdnbTuYc84G8neRVn-qA@lmi.net>
Message-ID: <dj21mr$tem$1@sea.gmane.org>

David Pokorny wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just wondering if anyone has considered macros for Python. I have one 
> good use case. In "R", the statistical programming language, you can 
> multiply matrices with A %*% B (A*B corresponds to pointwise 
> multiplication). In Python, I have to type
> 
> import Numeric
> matrixmultiply(A,B)
> 
> which makes my code almost unreadable.

Well, dot(A, B) is better. But if you must:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/384122

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Oct 11 23:39:54 2005
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:39:54 -0400
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<cone.1128120829.960449.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<mailman.1305.1128121518.509.python-list@python.org>
	<cone.1128139058.808314.32420.500@commodore.email-scan.com>
	<3q6oo1Fddg7eU3@individual.net>
	<7xr7b5zq31.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <aee42$434c858a$d8fea4f8$7404@PRIMUS.CA>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> writes:
> > For a conditional, syntax must be found, and the tradition of Python
> > design is not to use punctuation for something that can be solved
> > with keywords.
> 
> Yeah, "if C then A else B" is a ancient tradition stretching from
> Algol-60 to OCAML, and who knows what all else in between.  I'm not
> sure what Guido saw in the "A if C else B" syntax but it's not a big
> deal.

Perhaps, he's preparing Python for the eventual absorption into Perl7.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>, Toronto, Canada
ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive
	   http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html
BashDiff: Super Bash shell
	  http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 27 04:12:15 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:12:15 GMT
Subject: Would there be support for a more general cmp/__cmp__
References: <slrndlegvb.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2303.1129805834.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndleuuo.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.2306.1129808035.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndlh430.1lo.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djbaur$ruj$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<slrndlpa1e.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.24.12.07.23.897761@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlpnic.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djleav$86k$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>
	<pan.2005.10.25.14.50.12.136272@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndlug2l.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<xkL7f.213784$p_1.11962@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrndm12uv.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-26, Ron Adam schreef <rrr at ronadam.com>:
>
>
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Op 2005-10-25, Steven D'Aprano schreef <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>:
>
>>>Can somebody remind me, what is the problem Antoon is trying to solve here?
>> 
>> 
>> Well there are two issues. One about correct behaviour and one about
>> practicallity.
>> 
>> The first problem is cmp. This is what the documentation states:
>> 
>> cmp(x, y)
>>     Compare the two objects x and y and return an integer according to
>>     the outcome. The return value is negative if x < y, zero if x == y
>>     and strictly positive if x > y. 
>> 
>> The problem is, that if someone implements a partial ordered class,
>> with the rich comparisons, cmp doesn't behave correct. It can't
>> behave correct because it will always give an number as a result
>> and such a number implies one of three relations between two
>> elements, but with partial ordered classes, it is possible none
>> of these relations exist between those two elements. So IMO cmp
>> should be changed to reflect this. This can be done either by cmp
>> returning None or UnequalValues.  or by cmp raising UnequalValues
>> in such a case.
>
> Instead of changing cmp, why not just have several common versions to 
> choose from instead of trying to make one tool do it all?

That would be an option. Lets call such an alternative comp.
Would that mean also have a __comp__ method for customization.

>> The second part is one of practicallity. Once you have accepted cmp,
>> should reflect this possibility, it makes sense that the __cmp__
>> method should get the same possibilities, so that where it is more
>> pratical to do so, the programmer can implement his partial order
>> through one __cmp__ method instead of having to write six.
>> 
>> 
>> In my opinion such a change would break no existing code. This
>> is because there are two possibilities.
> >
>> 1) The user is using cmp on objects that form a total order.
>> In such circumstances the behaviour of cmp doesn't change.
>> 
>> 2) The user is using cmp on objects that don't form a total
>> order. In such circumstances cmp doesn't give consistent
>> results, so the code is already broken.
>
> Adding complexity to cmp may not break code, but it could probably slow 
> down sorting in general.

The evidence suggests that cmp is not used in sorting. If you have a
list of sets, sort will happily try to sort it, while calling cmp
with a set as an argument throws an exception.

I have a feeling that adding comp (and its brother __comp__) would
have a detrimental effect on sorting, because using '<' would then
mean one extra method to look for that could be used in determining
if a < b or not.

> So I would think what ever improvements or 
> alternatives needs to be careful not to slow down existing sorting cases.

I have done some tests and have come to the conclusion that other
factors will have a greater influence on sorting times. I have written
the following program to estimate effects:

from random import shuffle

from time import time

class UnequalValues(Exception):
  pass

class cla:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __cmp__(self, other):
    return self.value - other.value

class clb:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __lt__(self, other):
    return self.value < other.value

class clc:
  def __init__(self, i):
    self.value = int(i)

  def __comp__(self, other):
    return self.value - other.value

  def __lt__(self, other):
    try:
      return self.__comp__(other) < 0
    except UnequalValues:
      return False

def test(lng, rep):

  for cl in cla, clb, clc:
    total = 0.0
    for _ in xrange(rep):
      lst = [cl(i) for i in xrange(lng)]
      shuffle(lst)
      start = time()
      lst.sort()
      stop = time()
      total += stop - start
    print "%s: %d repeats, %d long, %9.6f secs" % (cl, rep, lng, total)

test(1000,1000)


This is the result I get:
  
__main__.cla: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 31.986618 secs
__main__.clb: 1000 repeats, 1000 long,  8.963896 secs
__main__.clc: 1000 repeats, 1000 long, 16.893321 secs


I find it very odd that clc sorts about twice as fast as cla.

That means that every class that has a __cmp__ method can be
speeded up with sorting by writing a similar __lt__ method
as in clc. I do wonder what is causing this.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct  6 22:46:51 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:46:51 -0400
Subject: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a "British
	accent"...
References: <1119983260.720573.255200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1019.1119995572.10512.python-list@python.org>
	<djcbk1llj080upi7j8hu28c82u6rdlh9gh@4ax.com>
	<11kbgj7421kd560@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <867jcqoxgk.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> On 2005-10-06, DaveM <asma61 at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>>>Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full
>>>monty" or "trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn
>>>word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the
>>>most part.
>> Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that
>> British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled,
>> while first-generation Americans whose English is. um,
>> limited, are not.
> What?!?  I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of
> the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a
> nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting)
> where the dialog was inaudible because of the music.

Maybe they were dubbed? I know America International dubbed the first
version of "Mad Max" that they imported into the US. Then again,
American International is well-know for their quality.

         <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From hrvoje at despammed.com  Wed Oct  5 02:57:26 2005
From: hrvoje at despammed.com (Hrvoje Blazevic)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:57:26 +0200
Subject: Idle
In-Reply-To: <1128472457.920615.52980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <dhuo72$8lo$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
	<08C0f.517$ht7.198@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<dhurjr$fsg$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
	<1128472457.920615.52980@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhvtcd$qt9$1@ss405.t-com.hr>

petercable at gmail.com wrote:
> If you are compiling python and you want to build idle/tkinter, you
> need to have the development packages for tcl and tk. The python build
> scripts will only build tkinter should they find the libraries
> (libtk8.4.so and libtcl8.4.so) and the header files (tk.h and tcl.h).
> If you don't have the development packages installed, you most likely
> do not have the header files.
> 
> If you install the development packages and recompile, test by
> importing _tkinter. If that is successful, idle should run just fine.
> 

Thanks.
After installing new versions of Tcl/Tk, python compilation did work. 
What is surprising is that although Python is bundled with most (all?) 
Linux distros, Idle does not work on most???

-- Hrvoje


From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 08:15:13 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:15:13 +1000
Subject: Here I am again, same old arguments
References: <wg32f.411657$x96.212964@attbi_s72>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.12.15.12.523844@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:02:52 +0000, CJ wrote:

>    Okay, same program, different issue. Thanks to the help that I was 
> given I was able to complete my program to find variables in a list that 
> were repeated, and display them once, and how many times they appeared in 
> the list. And it worked great! 
> 
>    But, being the perfectionist that I am, I wanted to make the proggie 
> allow any size of list, and not have to be recoded every time. So step 
> one was to not make the program reliant on the list itself being of X 
> length all the time.

First off -- don't use a for loop with an index as you are doing.
 
> #setup variables
> grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67]
> grubrpt=grub
> cntro=0
> cntrt=0
> rpt=0
> skipped=0

You are doing too much manual work! Let Python do the lion's share of the
work for you!
 
> #set up for variable length of grub
> ttllen=len(grub)-1

Why are you subtracting one from the length of the list?

> print "The heck is this for loop doing?" 
> for point in range(0,ttllen,1):

Using point as a loop index is generally a bad idea. The result coming
from range is not a point, it is an integer, so why call it a point?

You are also over-specifying the input arguments to range. If the step
size is one, you don't need to specify it -- that's the default. You just
make it harder to read, for no reason. Likewise the initial starting value
of zero. Just use range(ttllen).

This, by the way, will return a list [0, 1, 2, ... , length of list -
TWO] because you already subtracted one from the length.

>     print "Here's Grub=",grub
>     print "And grubrpt=",grubrpt
>     grubrpt[point]="blk"

As others have pointed out, grub and grubrpt are both names for the same
list. Changing one changes the other.


> #Makes sure that there are not multiple prints. 
> def alrdy_dn(grub,grubrpt):
>     if grub[cntro] in grubrpt:

Ew!!! Global variables!!!

Bad programmer! No biscuit!!!

*wink*

Global variables are almost always a BAD idea.

>         return grubrpt
>     else:
>         print grub[cntro],"appears in list",rpt,"times."
>         grubrpt[grubrpt.index("blk")]=grub[cntro] return grubrpt

This is a strange function. What exactly is it meant to do? It
combines user interface (printing the number of times each item appears)
and functionality (counting the number of times each item appears) and
side effects (changing the list), before returning one of the input
arguments again.

At least two of those things (counting the items, and printing the
results) should be separated into different functions for ease of
comprehension.

I'm going to skip the rest of your code, because I don't understand it and
am too lazy, er, I mean busy, to spend the time trying to decipher it.
Especially since the function you are trying to duplicate manually is so
easy to do if you work with Python instead of against it.

def count_item(L, item):
    """Count the number of times item appears in list L."""
    return L.count(item)

Or wait... that's too easy :-)

If you want to roll your own, then do it like this:

def count_item(L, item):
    """Count the number of times item appears in list L by reinventing
    the wheel."""
    n = 0
    for obj in L:
        if obj == item:
            n += 1
    return n

Notice that we don't change the list at any time. Why change it? That just
adds complexity to our program and adds extra places to make bugs. Of
which you have many :-)

Now you use it like this:

grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67]
for item in grub:
    n = count_item(grub, item)
    print item, "appears in list", n, "times."


And you are done.

No, not quite -- my code has a bug in it. You want to print the count for
each *unique* item. Mine prints the count for each item, regardless of
whether it is unique or not. So what we need to keep track of which items
have been counted before. Here is one way of doing it:

grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67]
already_seen = []
for item in grub:
    if item not in already_seen:
        n = count_item(grub, item)
        print item, "appears in list", n, "times."
        already_seen.append(item)

Notice that rather than *deleting* from a copy of the original list, we
*add* to a new list that started off empty.

Here is another way:
    
grub=[3,25,3,5,3,"a","a","BOB",3,3,45,36,26,25,"a",3,3,3,"bob","BOB",67]
unique_counts = {} # use a dictionary, not a list
for item in grub:
    n = count_item(grub, item)
    unique_counts[item] = n
for item, n in unique_counts.items():
        print item, "appears in list", n, "times."

The second version has a disadvantage that the objects in your list can't
be lists themselves, because lists can't be keys of dictionaries.

It also has what appears to be a disadvantage that it stores the item
count in the dictionary, even if that count has already been stored.
Wasted work! But wait... it might not be wasted. It takes work to test if
your item has already been seen. That work might be more than it would
take to just blindly store the result even if it is there.

Think of this real world equivalent. You tried to send a fax to somebody,
but you aren't sure if it went through correctly. What's the cheapest way
to make sure? You could call them up on the phone and ask, but that costs
money and time. It could be cheaper and quicker to just re-fax the
document. 

> Also, I do realize that there is an easier way to do this, I just
> created a little project for myself to learn the basics of the language.

This is good, but keep in mind that "the basics" of Python include tools
to do things you are trying to do by hand.

For instance, if you find yourself writing a loop like this:

counter = 0
while counter < some_value:
    do_something_with(counter)
    counter = counter + 1

you almost always want to change that to:

for counter in range(some_value):
    do_something_with(counter)

If you find a loop like this:

for indx in range(len(some_list)):
    obj = some_list[indx]
    do_something_with(obj)

you almost always want to write it like this:

for obj in some_list:
    do_something_with(obj)

Don't fight the language -- you aren't programming in C or Java now, this
is Python and there is usually an easier way to do something.

*wink*

Hope this is of use to you,


-- 
Steven.



From guillermo_s at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 21:34:03 2005
From: guillermo_s at hotmail.com (Ville)
Date: 4 Oct 2005 18:34:03 -0700
Subject: Turn $6 into $6.000
Message-ID: <1128476043.147955.40620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

HOW TO TURN 6 BUCKS INTO 6 THOUSAND! (WORLD WIDE) WARNING: READING THIS

WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE!
I found this on a Bulletin board and decided to try it. A little while
back, I was browsing through newsgroups, just like you are now, and
came across an article similar to this that said you could make
thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of
$6.00! So I thought, "Yeah right, this must be a scam", but like most
of us, I was curious, so I kept reading.Anyway, it said that you send
$1.00 to each of the 6 names and addresses stated in the article. You
then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,
and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands)
No catch, that was it. So after thinking it over, and talking to a few
people first, I thought about trying it. I figured: "what have I got to

lose except 6 stamps and $6.00, right?" Then I invested the measly
$6.00.
Well GUESS WHAT!! Within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I

was shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept
coming in. In my first week, I made about $25.00. By the end of the
second week I had made a total of over $1,000.00! In the third week I
had over $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week
and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming
in rapidly. It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I have spent more

than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most
importantly, why it works. Also, make sure you print a copy of this
article NOW, so you can get the information off of it, as you need it.
I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will
start making more money than you thought possible by doing something so

easy! Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully! (Print it out or
download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come in!

It's easy. It's legal, and your investment is only $6.00 (Plus postage)

IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not
illegal; and it is virtually no risk because it really works!!!If all
of the following instructions are adhered to exactly, you will receive
extraordinary dividends. PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions
EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This
program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the
participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the
instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In
this business your product is not solid and tangible, it's a service.
You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large
corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However, the

money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is
made from people like you and me asking to be included in that list.
Here are the 4 easy steps to success: STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of
paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON
YOUR MAILING LIST!" Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH
of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the
envelope (to prevent thievery). Next, place one paper in each of the 6
envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each
with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name and address,
and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS
ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are
paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little
worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the

U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed
legal. Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: Note: Make sure

you put the correct amount of postage stamps on your envelopes.Other
countries my need more stamps so be correct on how many you put.And
remember your business will be running Throughout the world so when you

start posting messages or emails to people this will bring in thousands

of dollars from all over the world. So now, you have money flowing \ in

from countries!That's how I became so successful in this business.
Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:
#1)     Tom Zimmerman IV
193 Yard St
Nesquehoning, PA. 18240
#2)   B. Pratt
5535 E 100 N
Knox, IN 46534
#3)     Michele Tyska
PO Box 765
Northport, NY 11768
#4)     David Weir
PO Box 144
Schooleys Mt., NJ 07870
#5)     S. Nagirnyak
14139 Pine Forest Drive
#208
North Royalton, OH 44133
#6)     Guillermo Oscar Sanchez Mallea
Madero 225 Vicente Lopez CP:1638
Buenos Aires - Argentina
STEP 2:Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the
other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR NAME as
number 6 on the list.STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to
keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your
amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close to

24,000 groups) All you need is 200, but remember, the more that you
post, the more money you make! This is perfectly legal! If you have any

doubts, refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws.
Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money,
you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER that this program
remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the
participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at

it this way, if you are a person of integrity, the program will
continue and the money that so many others have received will come your

way. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you,
either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you.
This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might
be a good idea to wrap the $1 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of
mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions
carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their
participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will
move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1
position you will be receiving thousands of dollars in CASH!!! What an
opportunity for only $6.00 ($1.00 for each of the first six people
listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you're in
business!!!
DIRECTIONS FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS: STEP 1: You do not need to
re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your
cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the
bottom of this document, and select ''copy'' from the edit menu. This
will copy the entire letter into the computer''s memory. STEP 2: Open a

blank ''notepad'' file and place your cursor at the top of the blank
page. From the ''edit'' menu select ''paste''. This will paste a copy
of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list.
STEP 3: Save your new notepad file as a text file. If you want to do
your postings in different settings, you''ll always have this file to
go back to. STEP 4: Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching

for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites,
discussions.) STEP 5: Visit these message boards and post this article
as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting
paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header
that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a
particular group, click the post message button. You''re done with your

first one! Congratulations...THAT''S IT! All you have to do is jump to
different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it
will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! **REMEMBER, THE MORE
NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO
POST A MINIMUM OF 200** that''s it! You will begin receiving money from

around the World within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.
Box Due to the large amounts coming to you!P.S. It's only 6 bucks what
u got to lose? So check it out!



From steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au  Sun Oct  9 05:56:02 2005
From: steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:56:02 +1000
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 15:20:12 +0200, Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen wrote:

> Ok, so I thought, how about creating a decorator that caches the 
> function results and retrieves them from cache if possible, otherwise it 
> calls the function and store the value in the cache for the next invokation.
> 
> This is what I came up with so far:
> 
> def cache_function(fn):
>      cache = {}
>      def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
>          if args in cache:
>              return cache[args]
>          result = fn(*args, **kwargs)
>          cache[args] = result
>          return result
>      return cached_result

I'm curious... where does cache live after you use cache_function to
memoize some function? It doesn't appear to be an attribute of the newly
memoized function, nor does it look like a global variable.



> The solution would have to consider fibonacci(50) and fibonacci(idx = 
> 50) as the same call and thus retrieve the second one from the cache.

In general, you probably can't do that without lots and lots of really
clever code searching through the function argument lists. If you know
that your function will always have the same keyword, then you can do
something like this:

        if args in cache:
            return cache[args]
        elif kwargs.keys() == "idx":
            return cache[kwargs["idx"]]

but that's a special case and you really don't want to do it *wink*

Otherwise, just accept that you may be caching multiple copies of the same
data, and do something like this:

        if args in cache:
            return cache[args]
        elif kwargs.items() in cache:
            return cache[kwargs.items()]

with the appropriate changes to the rest of the code.

You may also find that you could get a slight performance increase by
using the idiom 

try:
    return cache[args]
except:
    # calculate the result and store it in the cache.
    
instead of testing for membership. As always, timing some test functions
is your friend...



-- 
Steven.



From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct 31 17:54:10 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:54:10 -0500
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqie5$5vf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xbr1aewtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <djr2no$bto$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<86acgulv5z.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<djr3jo$c4m$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<7xvezi8ypy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86y84ehd3j.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrkc9$i9u$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86hdb2h750.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djrvhu$mb4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86zmoufiww.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djtvt0$dhl$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86oe59e57v.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<djuiii$k49$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <868xwcevke.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk5r3p$ab5$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <86br1530w7.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk5v7p$bqp$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <867jbt2xyb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dk64nk$dp0$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <863bmh2t7x.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
>> I'm trying to find out why you regularly ignore that difference for
>> everyone but MS.
>     To substantiate that claim, you'd have to point to some cases where I 
> talk about something other than MS.

You do that *every time* someone compares MS with other criminals -
you immediately refer to "criminals with guns" and refuse to discuss
the issue further. And yes, you've already claimed that you only do
that when the other reference is to "actual use of force", and I've
already disproved that.

> But if you do a little research, you'll find I'm completely
> consistent and have said similar things about numerour other
> entities.

Not in this thread, you haven't. The only consistency here has been
trying to treat MS's crimes as somehow different from other peoples
crimes. I'm still waiting for you to quit trying to lie (or, as you
would say, "argue") your way out of it, and come up with a reason for
this behavior other than doing so at MS's orders.

    <mike

-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org  Wed Oct  5 16:08:46 2005
From: usenet at marduk.letterboxes.org (marduk)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:08:46 GMT
Subject: how to keep collection of existing instances and return one on
	instantiation
In-Reply-To: <di1275$66b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <1128529206.4560.13.camel@blackwidow>
	<mailman.1554.1128531386.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1128532725.4560.25.camel@blackwidow>
	<di1275$66b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1128542925.4560.37.camel@blackwidow>

On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 19:24 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
> Use a weakref.WeakValueDictionary as the cache instead of a normal
> dict.
> 
> Peter 

Thanks for the reference to the weakref module.  Until now I've never
had a use for it, but it sounds like what I'm looking for.

-m



From xushanjun1212 at yahoo.com-dot-cn.no-spam.invalid  Mon Oct  3 08:46:18 2005
From: xushanjun1212 at yahoo.com-dot-cn.no-spam.invalid (shanjunxu)
Date: 03 Oct 2005 12:46:18 GMT
Subject: about pyopengl
Message-ID: <4341281a$1$98071$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>

I am a chinese boy,my english is not good,so i don not know how to
tell you about my question,i hope you can understand what i say.
I like python, and now i using pyopengl to draw three-dimensional.
but how can i use mouse to control objects?such as selecting object.I
know a function( glSelectBuffer() ) can be used,In C language the
format is glSelectBuffer(size, buffer),  but in python the format is
glSelectBuffer(size), how can i get the "buffer" pointer?
The following is one section function of my codes:
def ProcessSelection(x,y):
    viewport=range(4)
    glSelectBuffer(64)
    viewport=glGetIntegerv(GL_VIEWPORT)
    glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION)
    glPushMatrix()
    glRenderMode(GL_SELECT)
    glLoadIdentity()
    gluPickMatrix(x, viewport[3]-y, 2, 2, viewport)
    gluPerspective(45.0, aspect, 0.1, 200.0)
    
    DrawButton()
    hits=glRenderMode(GL_RENDER)
 
    glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION)
    glPopMatrix()
    glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW)

If you know how to do ,can you mail to me?thank you!
my e-mail is xushanjun1212 at yahoo.com.cn



From rvtol+news at isolution.nl  Sun Oct  9 05:19:26 2005
From: rvtol+news at isolution.nl (Dr.Ruud)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:19:26 +0200
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<7xvf07a1ro.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<86ll13mlpn.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <diauqc.g8.1@news.isolution.nl>

Mike Meyer:
> Paul Rubin:

>> I read mail over an ssh connection to a Unix shell.  I have no easy
>> way to read html email with a graphics browser.
>
> You don't need a grahics browser - you just need a browser. I read
> mail in emacs, and use emacs-w3m to view html in the mailer. Works for
> most things, and doesn't have the nasty side effect of letting the
> sender know I read it by fetching images from their web site.
>
>> I occasionally get html email that I want to read.  I save it in a
>> file and read it with lynx, which so far works perfectly well.  I
>> find html email to be a PITA and as someone else said, html in email
>> is an almost sure sign that it's a message that I want to trash
>> without reading it.
>
> Unfortunately, I've found that HTML email comes in two flavors: That
> which sets content-type to text/html in the headers, and that which
> sets it to some form of multipart in the headers. I used to bounce all
> mail of either form. Then I discovered that the AOL client - used by
> my relatives - could *not* be set to not send HTML email. At least it
> sends text/plain as well. On investigation, most legit email does
> sends multipart/mixed, so I only reject mail whose sole content is
> text/html.

Let procmail make all those decisions and transformations for you.

I have a maildir called 'raw' where I keep a copy of all non-spammish
mail.

Copies of the same messages also get delivered in the right mailboxes,
by procmail.
A message that contains only html, is piped though lynx -dump -stdin.
A message containing both HTML and a plain/text-part, is de-mime-d,
leaving only the plain/text-part (unless that part contains only a silly
remark).
Footers and long signatures are limited or even deleted. Etc., etc. (I
like my mail cooked.)

One of the reasons that I started with Perl, is that I want to rewrite
procmail in Perl.

-- 
Affijn, Ruud    <http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh770781&cmd=tunermini>

"Gewoon is een tijger."



From csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com  Fri Oct  7 14:10:33 2005
From: csubich.spam.block at spam.subich.block.com (Christopher Subich)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:10:33 -0400
Subject: socketServer questions
In-Reply-To: <7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <1128699247.9040.15.camel@athop1.ath.vt.edu>
	<7xll15paha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <di6dmt$r46$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> rbt <rbt at athop1.ath.vt.edu> writes:
> 
>>1. Do I need to use threads to handle requests, if so, how would I
>>incorporate them?  The clients are light and fast never sending more
>>than 270 bytes of data and never connecting for more than 10 seconds
>>at a time. There are currently 500 clients and potentially there
>>could be a few thousand... how high does the current version scale?
> 
> open for very long.  If you want to have longer-running connections
> open simultaneously, you need some type of concurrency such as threads.
> But then you have to write the code differently, to serialize the
> log recording.  
> 
> You probably should get a copy of "Python Cookbook" which explains the
> basics of multi-threaded programming, if you have to ask a question

Or take a look at non-threaded ways of doing non-blocking IO; I've 
personally used the Twisted libraries and they work decently without 
manual thread overhead [indeed, the default reactor uses select, and 
there's a version for 'nix systems that uses poll].

Either way will work, it just depends on how deeply you want to 
integrate the network functionality into the code.  As someone else said 
(paraphrased, an apologies for stealing the quote; a Google search isn't 
bringing it up), "You don't use Twisted, you provide Twisted callbacks 
to use you."


From mwm at mired.org  Mon Oct  3 00:20:18 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:20:18 -0400
Subject: Will python never intend to support private, protected and public?
References: <7xbr2dxqqq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhed0c$uk4$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7xk6h0zxnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dhf3id$b7n$1@newsreader1.utanet.at>
	<7x64skzvas.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2005.09.28.23.33.50.934919@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<7xll1gvk7w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1128001308.905398.321670@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<311b5ce105092908332c12164c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1163.1128009314.509.python-list@python.org>
	<7xbr2btv84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<bvkpj1hcg9gjj9js072d18k44p8pr35b24@4ax.com>
	<7xy85fvxny.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86vf0inlt3.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xd5mq9ir9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86wtkym33t.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xll1d7l2c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86slvlmdnv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7xr7b3spri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <86br27mztp.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<7x8xxbidtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <86ll1bkz99.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
>> > What convention?  It just makes it possible to write code with some
>> > specific invariants if there's a need to do so.
>> That you don't pass private variables to a function unless it's a builtin.
> No, I don't see that as "convention", it's just something that you do
> if you want to make sure that all the references are local or
> builtins.

Semantics...

> It's like saying that if you if you want to be sure that x
> is always positive, then don't execute statements like "x = -3".  I
> wouldn't call something like that a "convention".

Right - that's not a convention. That behavior would be a convention
if you did somehing like prefixing the variable name with a "p" to
indicate that you don't do that.

> maybe I'd like to be sure that x never yields negative numbers.
> CPython happens to have some features that stop me from guaranteeing
> that invariant.

I'd say CPython was missing the features that you need to guarantee
that. Missing quite a *lot* of features, in fact. But Python has never
been about keeping people from writing bad code - it's about helping
people write good code.

>> It wouldn't catch overriding things in __builtins__ or
>> overriding builtins in a module, or things poking at the variable
>> through __dict__, or - well, there are probably lots of things that
>> need to be dealt with.
> Yes, but I see all of those as implementation artifacts, not anything
> fundamental.

Right - those aren't fundamental. It's things like Python allowing
programmers to use whatever style is appropriate to the problem at
hand, rather than insisting on an OO style. Once you get outside the
OO style, "private" attributes becomes problematic.

>> Preventing accidents is all "private" does - without fundamental
>> changes to the implementation of the language. You have to catch every
>> mechanism that can be used to find a reference to an attribute, like
>> references to __dict__ and to the class variable.
>
> The Python stdlib for a long time had a module called Bastion that
> attempted to do exactly that, so you can't say that the desire is
> un-Pythonic.

Of course I can say it's unpythonic. I might even be right: just
because the standard library does something doesn't mean that
something is automatically pythonic. But I haven't said that "private"
is unpythonic. I will say that the things you need to program
effectively with private variables - like having to inherit all your
utility functions - is unpythonic.

> Bastion was only removed because implementation issues
> kept it from working properly.  Those issues probably can't bbe
> resolved in the 2.x series but as the language evolves, maybe
> something can be done to bring it back.

Pretty much every attempt to restrict what other programmers do in
Python has failed - for "implementation issues". I think that's a good
sign that this kind of thing isn't going to work without some serious
work on the interpreter.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From grunar at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 00:55:30 2005
From: grunar at gmail.com (grunar at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2005 21:55:30 -0700
Subject: sqlstring -- a library to build a SELECT statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129774730.887128.314960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2288.1129777943.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129784130.596225.174860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Jason Stitt wrote:
>
> I think some operator overloading, especially the obvious cases like
> ==, is cleaner than using only functions because it lets you order
> things normally. But some of the operator choices are non-intuitive.
> Personally, I would make something like 'alias' a function or class,
> rather than overloading XOR. Not sure about ** for where.
My strategy is to do both.  Have a "where" method that could be called
instead of ** (ie.  person.where(person.last_name=="smith"), but also
allow for the ** syntax.  After using it for a while, I'm finding the
** and ^ for alias very clear.  Alias function brings up the issue of
name-space (since table.alias could be a column if not a special
method.)  I'm assuming people don't use where, select, or other SQL key
words as column names, and if they do, they have a table["column"]
syntax to fall back on.  But I digress.  A method makes sense, though.

>
> Using // for 'in' looks really weird, too. It's too bad you can't
> overload Python's 'in' operator. (Can you? It seems to be hard-coded
> to iterate through an iterable and look for the value, rather than
> calling a private method like some other builtins do.)

// was a bit of a stretch.  I'd initially thought it for the "where"
clause, becuase it's lower precedence than ** (I think), and really
late at night // kind of looks like a W.  I decided against it because
it looks to close to a comment in some other languages.

Python "in" clause doesn't seem exploitable in any way--probably a good
thing.  I did add a "in_" method (name is arguable), which does the
same thing, also a not_in.

> Have you ever used Pyparsing? Its use of a combination of classes and
> operator overloading works pretty well.
I took a look at it.  Seems like a happy balance there--with the
overloading. <a
href="http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/fumanchu/2005/08/11/where_dejavu_fits_in_the_orm_cosmos">Dejavu</a>
is another cool solution--using Lambda expressions.  But it goes into
scary bytecode stuff (though it's well contained).

>
> For SQL function calls, don't you also want to support stored
> procedures? In that case, you don't want pre-set magic functions so
> much as a function that takes a string parameter for a function name
> and then a list of function parameters.
This is what I had in mind (echo.py in the distribution).  The only
issue becomes knowing when to quote the parameters (is a string always
a string?).  I 've ended up quoting everything, and forcing the user to
supply table.column notation if they don't want it quoted.

>
> >>>> print person_smith("party_id", "first_name") \
> >>>>
> > < < model.address ** (\
> > model.address.party_id == model.person.party_id)
> > SELECT
> > party_id party_id,
> > first_name first_name,
> > address.*
> > FROM
> > [person] person
> > LEFT OUTER JOIN [address] address ON
> > address.party_id = person.party_id
> > WHERE person.first_name = 'Smith'
>
> See, this is where I'm not sure about operator precedence. If <<
> binds tighter than **, it works, because the << operator would make a
> 'join' object and then the ** could be interpreted as an 'on' clause.
> But if ** binds tighter you get an extra 'where' clause on the
> address table, and then a join...
>
There's a little dark magic going on with the precedence here.  The **
is higher precedence, so it happens first, and is applied to the
address table object, which is then joined into person (with the <<
operator), and pulling in the existing where on address.  This sounds
bad, but it allows for where clauses to trickle up through the python
expression, which is how I get a + b >> c to behave as expected.


Thanks for the positive feedback!

Runar



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 29 14:12:40 2005
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:12:40 GMT
Subject: Scanning a file
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<7xek65nal0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<1130505731.850947.68690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndm4bme.igb.a_mccarthy@hotmail.com>
	<867jbxfpvb.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<1h55ri3.1hzntdk1dtxpa7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<43632812.1249162210@news.oz.net>
	<djvc4q$sai$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4363b997.1286415918@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:34:24 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:03:17 -0700, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>>>   ...
>>>> Except if you can't read the file into memory because it's to large,
>>>> there's a pretty good chance you won't be able to mmap it either.  To
>>>> deal with huge files, the only option is to read the file in in
>>>> chunks, count the occurences in each chunk, and then do some fiddling
>>>> to deal with the pattern landing on a boundary.
>>>
>>>That's the kind of things generators are for...:
>>>
>>>def byblocks(f, blocksize, overlap):
>>>    block = f.read(blocksize)
>>>    yield block
>>>    while block:
>>>        block = block[-overlap:] + f.read(blocksize-overlap)
>>>        if block: yield block
>>>
>>>Now, to look for a substring of length N in an open binary file f:
>>>
>>>f = open(whatever, 'b')
>>>count = 0
>>>for block in byblocks(f, 1024*1024, len(subst)-1):
>>>    count += block.count(subst)
>>>f.close()
>>>
>>>not much "fiddling" needed, as you can see, and what little "fiddling"
>>>is needed is entirely encompassed by the generator...
>>>
>> Do I get a job at google if I find something wrong with the above? ;-)
>
>Try it with a subst of length 1. Seems like you missed an opportunity :-)
>
I was thinking this was an example a la Alex's previous discussion
of interviewee code challenges ;-)

What struck me was

 >>> gen = byblocks(StringIO.StringIO('no'),1024,len('end?')-1)
 >>> [gen.next() for i in xrange(10)]
 ['no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no', 'no']

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From akameswaran at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 10:02:34 2005
From: akameswaran at gmail.com (akameswaran at gmail.com)
Date: 24 Oct 2005 07:02:34 -0700
Subject: newbie question about SocketServer
In-Reply-To: <djbfms$4ea$1@news.freedom2surf.net>
References: <1129842796.819897.309040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djbfms$4ea$1@news.freedom2surf.net>
Message-ID: <1130162554.056436.111790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

After further playing - it seems that the server_close() just takes
time to execute.  I have found that if I wait a while (1-3 seconds) the
second connection will fail as well.  Locking is already built into my
handler class - so I'll just use it to prevent further connections
until server_close() completes.



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sun Oct 30 20:53:17 2005
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:53:17 -0600
Subject: Scanning a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2707.1130659042.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130497567.764104.125110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><3sf070Fo0klqU1@individual.net>	<3sg8hiFmvbo7U1@individual.net><864q70evci.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>	<3si036Fofks2U1@individual.net>
	<mailman.2707.1130659042.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4365790D.3010009@redlinepy.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Paul Watson wrote:
> 
>>This is Cyngwin on Windows XP.
> 
> using cygwin to analyze performance characteristics of portable API:s
> is a really lousy idea.

Ok.  So, I agree.  That is just what I had at hand.  Here are some other 
numbers to which due diligence has also not been applied.  Source code 
is at the bottom for both file and mmap process.  I would be willing for 
someone to tell me what I could improve.

$ python -V
Python 2.4.1

$ uname -a
Linux ruth 2.6.13-1.1532_FC4 #1 Thu Oct 20 01:30:08 EDT 2005 i686

$ cat /proc/meminfo|head -2
MemTotal:       514232 kB
MemFree:         47080 kB

$ time ./scanfile.py
16384

real    0m0.06s
user    0m0.03s
sys     0m0.01s

$ time ./scanfilemmap.py
16384

real    0m0.10s
user    0m0.06s
sys     0m0.00s

Using a ~ 250 MB file, not even half of physical memory.

$ time ./scanfile.py
16777216

real    0m11.19s
user    0m10.98s
sys     0m0.17s

$ time ./scanfilemmap.py
16777216

real    0m55.09s
user    0m43.12s
sys     0m11.92s

==============================

$ cat scanfile.py
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys

fn = 't.dat'
ss = '\x00\x00\x01\x00'
ss = 'time'

be = len(ss) - 1        # length of overlap to check
blocksize = 64 * 1024    # need to ensure that blocksize > overlap

fp = open(fn, 'rb')
b = fp.read(blocksize)
count = 0
while len(b) > be:
     count += b.count(ss)
     b = b[-be:] + fp.read(blocksize)
fp.close()

print count
sys.exit(0)

===================================

$ cat scanfilemmap.py
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
import os
import mmap

fn = 't.dat'
ss = '\x00\x00\x01\x00'
ss='time'

fp = open(fn, 'rb')
b = mmap.mmap(fp.fileno(), os.stat(fp.name).st_size, 
access=mmap.ACCESS_READ)

count = 0
foundpoint = b.find(ss, 0)
while foundpoint != -1 and (foundpoint + 1) < b.size():
     #print foundpoint
     count = count + 1
     foundpoint = b.find(ss, foundpoint + 1)
b.close()

print count

fp.close()
sys.exit(0)


From ron at vnetworx.net  Fri Oct 14 14:34:49 2005
From: ron at vnetworx.net (Ron Guerin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:34:49 -0400
Subject: NYLUG meeting: The Python Object Model with Alex Martelli
	&	Google(open bar and food!)
In-Reply-To: <312cfe2b0510141103i162034a1x8009b9123d041717@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2077.1129308291.509.python-list@python.org>	<1129312792.c8c0370da34fd63e5cace1fe6133aff9@teranews>
	<312cfe2b0510141103i162034a1x8009b9123d041717@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <434FFA49.1040001@vnetworx.net>

Gregory Pi?ero wrote:
>     A reasonable question ...

Sure is. ;)

October 26, 2005  6:00pm - 10:00pm

- Ron



From theller at python.net  Wed Oct  5 08:18:58 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:18:58 +0200
Subject: How to prevent logging warning?
Message-ID: <psqkp365.fsf@python.net>

I'm about to add some logging calls to a library I have.  How can I
prevent that the script that uses the library prints
'No handlers could be found for logger "comtypes.client"' when the
script runs?

I would like to setup the logging so that there is no logging when
nothing is configured, and no warning messages are printed.

Thomas


From larry.bates at websafe.com  Wed Oct 12 15:07:27 2005
From: larry.bates at websafe.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:07:27 -0500
Subject: Converting C++ array into Python
In-Reply-To: <slrndkqd54.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <mailman.1957.1129122735.509.python-list@python.org>
	<eZCdnVD6O_XQq9DeRVn-ig@comcast.com>
	<slrndkqd54.2ss.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <m6CdnR_HYNyJwtDeRVn-ig@comcast.com>

Yes, I'm normally calling .DLL function with a defined API and
memory layout.  May not be optimal, when you don't have the
C code available and the data structure is part of the API it
works just fine.

-Larry Bates

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:13:52 -0500, Larry Bates <larry.bates at websafe.com> wrote:
> 
>>Like others, without more information on what you have tried we are
>>just guessing.  Many times I've used the struct.unpack() module to
>>unpack C "arrays" into python objects.
> 
> 
> In that case, it sounds like you make yourself depend on the memory layout
> of those C arrays -- generally a very bad thing to do.
> 
> 
>>Don't know if this will help,
>>but thought I'd pass it along.  Post some code and we can help more.
> 
> 
> Yes. Or at least tell us what the /type/ of that array is.
> 
> I assume it's 'Foo thearray[]', in which case you usually would return it as
> a Python list of whatever Python data structure you encode a Foo into --
> might be a tuple, or an integer, or a full-blown class of some kind, or ...
> 
> /Jorgen
> 


From lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk  Mon Oct 31 07:47:16 2005
From: lard at tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk (Alex Hunsley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:47:16 GMT
Subject: mixin helper class for unknown attribute access?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.31.12.40.23.812468@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <Mvm9f.25313$m%6.18781@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<pan.2005.10.31.12.40.23.812468@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <ono9f.25939$m%6.21522@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:39:40 +0000, Alex Hunsley wrote:
> 
> 
>>I know that I can catch access to unknown attributes with code something 
>>like the following:
>>
>>class example:
>>      def __getattr__(self, name):
>>          if name == 'age':
>>              return __age
>>          else:
>>              raise AttributeError
>>
>>
>>but is there an existing mixin helper class in Python (or one someone 
>>has written) already that will assist with this? (Just not wanting to 
>>reinvent the wheel....)
> 
> 
> Too late.
> 
> py> class Example:
> ...     age = 0
> ...
> py> Example.age
> 0
> py> Example.aeg
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: class Example has no attribute 'aeg'
> 
> It works for instances too:
> 
> py> Example().aeg
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: Example instance has no attribute 'aeg'
> 
> 
> Your __getattr__ code is completely unnecessary.

Sorry, as I noted in another reply not long ago, I was having a 'braino' 
and not saying what I actually meant!
What I was talking about was the accidental _setting_ of the wrong 
attribute.
And the mixin class I'm looking for is one that could be told what were 
valid attributes for the class, and would then catch the situation where 
you mis-spelt an attribute name when setting an attrib.

thanks!
alex






> 
> 
> 


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 23:28:18 2005
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:28:18 -0700
Subject: suggestions between these two books
References: <RQL7f.1244$No6.28617@news.tufts.edu>
	<mailman.2607.1130339640.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1h55sjs.15zg7oz1rhbwyzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Micah Elliott <mde at micah.elliott.name> wrote:

> On Oct 26, John Salerno wrote:
> > Hi all. I'm fairly new to programming and I thought I'd like to try
> > Python. I'm trying to decide between these two books:
> > 
> > Learning Python (O'Reilly)
> > Beginning Python: From Novice to Professional (APress)
> 
> Consider first reading the tutorial.  If you prefer to read from paper
> there is a PDF version
> <http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/download.html>.

...but both of the quoted books have added value.

Well, I don't actually KNOW that about the APress one, since my good
friend Magnus Hetland didn't think of sending me a review copy (hint,
hint, Magnus, if you want any more recommendations;-), but its
predecessor "Pratical Python" was good indeed.

 
> There is also the "Python in a Nutshell" book which only covers Python
> 2.2 but has a very concise language intro, and will become an
> invaluable reference.  I wish I had started with this book; then I
> wouldn't have needed to buy some of the others.

Why, thanks!  I'm working on a new edition to cover 2.3 and 2.4 (and
perhaps 2.5 by the time I'll be done, as progress is being quite slow --
as uber technical lead at Google, I'm pretty busy these days!-), but I
do agree that the current edition is still quite useful.


Alex


From gsakkis at rutgers.edu  Thu Oct 13 10:15:43 2005
From: gsakkis at rutgers.edu (George Sakkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:15:43 -0400
Subject: how to make this code faster
References: <1129183717.183243.100540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1987.1129185081.509.python-list@python.org>
	<1129192669.716031.269340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1129212949.b229b833824fd3d22639fba1064865eb@teranews>

<ajikoe at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello,
>
> I found that scipy only works with python 2.3 or?

You can use Numeric instead of scipy if you need/want to:

from Numeric import arange,reshape,sin

def computeMatrix(n):
    xcoor = arange(0,1,1/float(n))
    ycoor = reshape(xcoor, (n,1))
    return sin(xcoor*ycoor) + 8*xcoor

Note that arange() does not include the endpoint, i.e. arange(0,1,0.25).tolist() ==[0.0, 0.25, 0.5,
0.75].

> I don't know if the logic is correct:
> 1. loop inside loop uses a lot of resources
> 2. Numeric or Numpy can make program faster
> 3. It use kind of Array/Matrix analysis style
> 4. We have to change our algorithms so that Numeric or Numpy can help
> us, Matrix style

That's correct more or less.

George




From davids at webmaster.com  Fri Oct 28 16:01:50 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:01:50 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org> <dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<kvv4l15d1ish33n9pm3fnu04tjdj8nph5r@4ax.com>
	<qpb1m1p0q89e0rn685rfbaserrn2c4uo32@4ax.com>
	<djqcrv$423$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<1130417205.892409.230580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<djqik8$5vg$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqjic$qb7$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<djqjrt$6dh$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djqkc0$qk2$1@sadr.dfn.de>
	<djqmjq$7ff$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <djsmvh$jk$1@sadr.dfn.de>
Message-ID: <dju03e$dhq$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"Lasse V?gs?ther Karlsen" <lasse at vkarlsen.no> wrote in message 
news:djsmvh$jk$1 at sadr.dfn.de...

> Ok, let me just make my opinion very clear on this and then I'll just 
> leave this thread altogether.
>
> I think you are comparing apples and oranges so whatever conclusion you 
> manage to draw from that is in my eyes invalid. It doesn't matter, in my 
> opinion, if you managed to conclude that Microsoft was the saints 
> themselves because, in my opinion, your reasoning is not valid. I'm not 
> saying one way or the other, I'm just picking at your reasoning.
>
> To me it sounds like concluding that the prices of RAM will drop because 
> the swallows are flying high this fall.
>
> But enough, I'll just leave it.

    There is no value whatsoever in simply saying "I don't agree with you" 
and including no argument or reasoning. Were you afraid someone might 
erroneously think you did agree with me and that this would harm your 
reputation? If you want to participate in discussion, you have to make 
claims and defend them.

    MS imposed a restriction that was logically lesser than saying "if you 
want to buy Windows wholesale, you cannot sell products that compete with 
PCs with Windows pre-loaded on them". (Logically lesser because they allowed 
you sell them but charged a fee. You could avoid the fee by simply not 
selling them.) This is a perfectly ordinary type of franchise sales 
arrangement engaged in by companies of all kinds. For someone who does not 
already have a monopoly, it is even perfectly legal.

    DS




From brusstoc at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 01:04:34 2005
From: brusstoc at gmail.com (brusstoc at gmail.com)
Date: 30 Sep 2005 22:04:34 -0700
Subject: A Moronicity of Guido van Rossum
In-Reply-To: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128003857.930444.47650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1128143074.088232.189710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

I have an excellent idea. Create your own programming language and do
whatever you want with it. Until then, I'm thinking that Guido can do
whatever he wants with his. But I'm guessing that your programming
skills will be in the same place as your greatness - in your own head.



From aleax at mail.comcast.net  Sat Oct  8 00:56:12 2005
From: aleax at mail.comcast.net (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:56:12 -0700
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <1h42zdb.1hqmbvr101wlsoN%aleax@mail.comcast.net>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:
   ...
> >>   egold = 0:
> >>   while egold < 10:
> >>     if test():
> >>       ego1d = egold + 1
> >> 
> >
> > Oh come on. That is a completely contrived example,
> 
> No it is not. You may not have had any use for this
> kind of code, but unfamiliary with certain types
> of problems, doesn't make something contrived.

It's so contrived it will raise a SyntaxError due to the spurious extra
colon on the first line;-).

Or, consider, once the stray extra colon is fixed:

Helen:/tmp alex$ cat ap.py
def ap():
   egold = 0
   while egold < 10:
     if test():
       ego1d = egold + 1

Helen:/tmp alex$ pychecker ap.py
Processing ap...

Warnings...

ap.py:4: No global (test) found
ap.py:5: Local variable (ego1d) not used
Helen:/tmp alex$ 

If you're so typo-prone and averse to unittests that you consider this
kind of issue to be a serious problem, just use pychecker and get
informed about any such typo, just as above.

Incessant whining about the non-existent advantages of declarations,
rather than the simple use of tools that can diagnose such spelling
mistakes without any need for declarations, would qualify you as a troll
even if you didn't have a long history of trolling this group...

> Names do get misspelled and sometimes that misspelling is hard to spot.

It's totally trivial, of course, as shown above, and there is no need to
pervert and distort the language for the purpose, as you, troll, have
kept whining about for years.  I'm partial to pychecker -- that's what
we use at Google, and we also, incidentally, recently had the good
fortune to hire Neal Norwitz, pychecker's author; but there are several
other free tools that perform similar tasks, albeit with very different
philosophy, such as Logilab's pylint...:

Helen:/tmp alex$ pylint ap.py
No config file found, using default configuration
************* Module ap
W:  2: Bad indentation. Found 3 spaces, expected 4
W:  3: Bad indentation. Found 3 spaces, expected 4
W:  4: Bad indentation. Found 5 spaces, expected 8
W:  5: Bad indentation. Found 7 spaces, expected 12
C:  0: Too short name "ap"
W:  0: Missing docstring
W:  0: Missing required attribute "__revision__"
C:  1:ap: Too short name "ap"
W:  1:ap: Missing docstring
E:  4:ap: Undefined variable 'test'
W:  5:ap: Unused variable 'ego1d'

  [rest of long critique of ap.py snipped]

Again, unused variables (typos...) get easily diagnosed without any need
for declarations.  (Similar tools, of course, apply to languages
requiring declaration, to diagnose a variable that's declared but
unused, which is a very bad code smell typical of such languages).  Of
course, pylint is about enforcing all sort of code rules, such as, by
default, indentation by multiples of 4 spaces, name length, docstrings,
and so on; while pychecker is much simpler and more narrowly aimed at
diagnosing likely mistakes and serious code smells.

But, with either tool or any of many others, there is no need at all for
declarations in order to catch typos (of course, unittests are still a
VERY good idea -- catching all typos and even coding rules violations is
NO guarantee that your code is any good, testing is A MUST).


> > It would give the 
> > programmer a false sense of security since they 'know' all their 
> > misspellings are caught by the compiler. It would not be a substitute for
> > run-time testing.
> 
> I don't think anyone with a little bit of experience will be so naive.

Heh, right.  After all, _I_, for example, cannot have even "a little bit
of experience" -- after all, I've been programming for just 30 years
(starting with my freshman year in university), and anyway all I have to
show for that is a couple of best-selling books, and a stellar career
culminating (so far) with my present job as Uber Technical Lead for
Google, Inc, right here in Silicon Valley... no doubt Google's reaching
over the Atlantic to come hire me from Italy, and the US government's
decision to grant me a visa under the O-1 category (for "Aliens with
Outstanding Skills"), were mere oversights on their part that,
obviously, I cannot have even "a little bit of experience", given that I
(like great authors such as Bruce Eckel and Robert Martin) entirely
agree with the opinion you deem "so naive"... that any automatic
catching of misspellings can never be a substitute for unit-testing!


Ah well -- my good old iBook's settings had killfiles for newsreaders,
with not many entries, but yours, Antoon, quite prominent and permanent;
unfortunately, that beautiful little iBook was stolen
(http://www.papd.org/press_releases/8_17_05_fix_macs_211.html), so I got
myself a brand new one (I would deem it incorrect to use for personal
purposes the nice 15" Powerbook that Google assigned me), and it takes
some time to reconstruct all the settings.  But, I gotta get started
sometime -- so, welcome, o troll, as the very first entry in my
brand-new killfile.

In other words: *PLONK*, troll!-)


Alex


From svenn.are at bjerkem.de  Mon Oct 31 16:50:52 2005
From: svenn.are at bjerkem.de (svenn.are at bjerkem.de)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 13:50:52 -0800
Subject: Using graphviz to visualize trace.py output, anybody?
In-Reply-To: <slrndmcm7k.1ud.dek@bosshog.lbl.gov>
References: <1130710534.618559.40680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<slrndmcm7k.1ud.dek@bosshog.lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <1130795452.074883.250760@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I am referring to the trace.py which comes with python2.3 which is
installed on Panther by default. (I found it with 'locate trace.py'
after reading about its existence here)

I was thinking in the direction of your suggestion 2) but before I
reinvent the wheel, I would like to know  if someone has already
invented it. As it doesn't seem like anybody has, I will have to go do
it myself. If somebody happen to finish before me I would be happy to
get a notice.

-- 
Svenn



From ccdetail at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 17:05:31 2005
From: ccdetail at gmail.com (ccdetail at gmail.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2005 14:05:31 -0700
Subject: python in the news
Message-ID: <1130360731.133242.244980@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

http://software.itmanagersjournal.com/software/05/10/25/1631220.shtml...



From nowayjose at noway.com  Mon Oct 10 01:03:40 2005
From: nowayjose at noway.com (el chupacabra)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 05:03:40 GMT
Subject: python and MySQL - 3 questions
Message-ID: <MCm2f.2227$B%6.1580@tornado.socal.rr.com>

I'm using mysqldb module and python 2.4. I'm a newbie. Thanks in advance.

1. Output desired: 

"hello"
"world"

I know that MySQL takes \n and \t and what not. 

But my python script, it takes that \n as literal.  Meaning, when I retrieve the records, they show up like "hello \n world".

How can keep formatting when inserting data to table?

This is what I have:

cursor.execute('insert into table values (%s, %s, %s, %s)', (newId, insertEntryName, insertLastName, insertSSN)


2. How can make my python show *** (stars) when entering user passwords?

3. Is it possible to make Python/MySQL transactions secure, encrypted?  Can you point me to readings or something?



--------------=  Posted using GrabIt  =----------------
------=  Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
-=  Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/  =-



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Oct  9 06:21:39 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:21:39 +0200
Subject: Function decorator that caches function results
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
References: <TdCdnVSTs-A-Wtre4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<pan.2005.10.09.09.56.02.95699@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <3qs99kFg3fcoU1@uni-berlin.de>

>>def cache_function(fn):
>>     cache = {}
>>     def cached_result(*args, **kwargs):
>>         if args in cache:
>>             return cache[args]
>>         result = fn(*args, **kwargs)
>>         cache[args] = result
>>         return result
>>     return cached_result
> 
> 
> I'm curious... where does cache live after you use cache_function to
> memoize some function? It doesn't appear to be an attribute of the newly
> memoized function, nor does it look like a global variable.

It's part of the closure - as well as fn, btw. So it is 
per-decorated-function.

Diez


From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Oct 11 09:36:31 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:36:31 +0200
Subject: date reformatting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1627.1128622152.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1627.1128622152.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <digf4v$93t$1@wake.carmen.se>

Bell, Kevin wrote:
> Anyone aware of existing code to turn a date string "8-15-05" into the
> number 20050815?

 >>> import datetime
 >>> s = "8-15-05"
 >>> month,day,year = map(int, s.split('-'))
 >>> date = datetime.date(2000+year,month,day)
 >>> date.strftime('%Y%m%d')
'20050815'

Of course, if you really want the *number* 20050815 you'd
have to do
 >>> int(date.strftime('%Y%m%d'))

Using a datetime.date object means that you have good
support for a lot of arithmetic on and formatting of
dates without writing a lot of new code.

If you really mean that you want the number 20050815, I
assume this is because some legacy system beyond you control
need to have dates in that format. It's not a particularly
good format for dates. If you just want a numeric storage of
dates, I'd suggest using datetime.date.toordinal/fromordinal.
Those numbers aren't as easy to decipher manually, but at
least they work right if you subtract dates or add or subtract
days from a date.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Oct  7 04:53:54 2005
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:53:54 +0200
Subject: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
In-Reply-To: <slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <jsh0k1hqc2kb7lq83jmcr9ieqkb29i6n7h@4ax.com>
	<R1Y%e.618$2F2.116453@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ubu0k15824nn743c09vqdd347d7v4ccq5c@4ax.com>
	<4340843b$0$73585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>
	<1128306351.13c600edac4bfa99f9f10238681bf68f@teranews>
	<slrndk1lln.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E45EC3E6CB2duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk20pn.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<Xns96E482833CD9Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<slrndk2e89.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<pan.2005.10.03.16.48.30.411255@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<slrndk4bo2.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qi8erFf252rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndk9muo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkdbrFfgga9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndka20j.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkn7qFffkl6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkabe7.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<3qkr1hFfgj5uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrndkc6lo.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <3qmrd2Ffocu8U1@uni-berlin.de>

> Why do you call this a JAVA Object or C void*? Why don't you call
> it a PYTHON object. It is this kind of reaction that IMO tells most
> opponents can't think outside the typesystems they have already
> seen and project the problems with those type systems on what
> would happen with python should it acquire a type system.

Well, because maybe I wanted you to give you an example of languages 
that are statically typed and have such an any construct - that, by the 
way, is not a piece of inguine imagination of yours, but has been 
thought of before, e.g. CORBA (and called there any, too)? It makes no 
sense putting python into that context - as it is _not_ statically 
typed. Which you should know, after discussing this very subject way too 
long.

>>>Would my suggestion be classified as a statically typed world?
>>
>>See above.
> 
> 
> Your answer tells more about you then about my suggestion.

Your answer tells us something too: Just because you don't know anything 
about typechecking does not mean that you are in the position to make 
assumptions on "how things could work if the people who know stuff 
wouldn't be so stupid". That's like saying "cars can't fly because the 
stupid engineers lack my sense of imagination."

Just blathering about the possibility of some super-duper-typechecker 
and countering criticism or being told about problems in that domain by 
making bold statements that this sure could work - provide us with an 
implementation.

Or maybe - just maybe - you could sit back and think about the fact that 
lots of people who are way cleverer than you and me have been working on 
this subject, and so far haven't found a way. Which doesn't necessarily 
mean that there is no way - but certainly its hard, theory-laden work 
and won't emerge in a NG discussion by some snide remarks of either you 
or anybody else.


Diez


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Fri Oct 14 16:37:03 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:37:03 -0700
Subject: [PIL]: Question On Changing Colour
In-Reply-To: <434eb32d$0$29544$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
References: <00fe01c5cf7c$410750e0$69820257@Gavana>
	<mailman.1927.1129080609.509.python-list@python.org>
	<434eb32d$0$29544$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <43501678$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

<Confusion about applying hue to a grey value>
Try this:
 >>> import colorsys as cs
 >>> grey = (.7, .7, .7)
 >>> blue = (0., 0., 1.)
 >>> hsv_grey = cs.rgb_to_hsv(*grey)
 >>> hsv_blue = cs.rgb_to_hsv(*blue)
 >>> hsv_grey
(0.0, 0.0, 0.69999999999999996)
 >>> hsv_blue
(0.66666666666666663, 1.0, 1.0)

The problem is that the saturation of the grey is 0.  There
is no Hue to anything between black and white.  Maybe you want
something like:

def apply_hue(color, rgb):
     hue, _saturation, _value = cs.rgb_to_hsv(*color)
     _hue, saturation, value = cs.rgb_to_hsv(*rgb)
     return cs.hsv_to_rgb(hue, max(.1, saturation), value)

Or:

def apply_hs(color, rgb):
     hue, saturation, value = cs.rgb_to_hsv(*color)
     _hue, _saturation, value = cs.rgb_to_hsv(*rgb)
     return cs.hsv_to_rgb(hue, saturation, value)


--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From codecraig at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 12:08:22 2005
From: codecraig at gmail.com (py)
Date: 28 Oct 2005 09:08:22 -0700
Subject: SNMP
Message-ID: <1130515702.436348.190240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

>From what I have seen Python does not come with an snmp module built
in, can anyone suggest some other SNMP module (preferably one you have
used/experienced)..I have googled and seen yapsnmp and pysnmp (which
seem to be the two most active SNMP modules).

Thanks



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct  5 05:20:06 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 5 Oct 2005 09:20:06 GMT
Subject: dictionary interface
References: <slrndk4uud.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.1437.1128433183.509.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510050023290.13409@urchin.earth.li>
	<slrndk73cp.6o3.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<7xll18gxhx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrndk76m6.h7o.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-05, Paul Rubin schreef <http>:
> Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
>> But that is contradicted by the unittest. If you have a unittest for
>> comparing dictionaries, that means comparing dictionaries has a
>> testable characteristic and thus is further defined.
>
> No, I don't think so.  The unittest makes sure that a particular
> implementation works as intended.  That doesn't mean that every part
> of the of how that particular implementation works is required by the
> language definition.

As far as I understand, unittest test for functionality clients should
be able to rely on. They shouldn't be used to test a specific
implementation feature.

The idea is that if you change the implementation, you can quickly
test the functionality is unharmed. But you can't do that if
also specific implementation details are tested for.

> It can have some non-required (but
> non-forbidden) characteristics and those could still get tested.

That doesn't seem to make sense. If it is not required it shouldn't
be tested for, at least not in a unittest, because otherwise a new
implementation that doesn't have the non-required characteristics
will be rejected.

My tree class is almost finished, but one unittest still fails,
is this a failing of my class (as a replacement for a dictionary)
or is this a non-required characteristic of dictionaries?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sun Oct 23 19:30:20 2005
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:30:20 +0100
Subject: Syntax across languages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1130052687.396109.145420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2431.1130054053.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510232346320.24000@urchin.earth.li>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> bearophileHUGS at lycos.com wrote:
>
>> - ~== for approximate FP equality
>
> str(a) == str(b)

This is taken from the AIEEEEEEEE 754 standard, i take it? :)

Seriously, that's horrible. Fredrik, you are a bad man, and run a bad 
railway.

However, looking at the page the OP cites, the only mention of that 
operator i can find is in Dylan, and in Dylan, it's nothing to do with 
approximate FP equality - it means 'not identical', which we can spell "is 
not".

What would approximate FP equality even mean? How approximate?

>> - Exception retrying: after catching an exception, tell the snippet to
>> be re-run "retry" as in Ruby
>
>>>> x = 0
>>>> while 1:
> ...     try:
> ...         x += 1
> ...         if x <= 5:
> ...             raise ValueError
> ...     except ValueError:
> ...         print "retry"
> ...         continue
> ...     else:
> ...         break
> ...
> retry
> retry
> retry
> retry
> retry
>>>>

That works well for trivial cases, and not at all for anything complex. If 
you have this sort of structure:

def reverse_the_polarity_of_the_neutron_flow():
 	five_hundred_lines_of_code()
 	and_dozens_of_layers_of_nesting_and_indirection()
 	interrossitor.activate() # can raise InterrossitorError
 	do_what_we_came_here_to_do()

try:
 	reverse_the_polarity_of_the_neutron_flow()
except InterrossitorError:
 	degausser.degauss(interrossitor)
 	interrossitor.activate()
 	RETRY # how do you implement this?

You're in trouble. I realise that this snippet is not a hugely compelling 
example, but the point is that there could be some corrective action that 
you can take in an exception handler which, for some reason, you can't 
write close enough to the source of the exception that control can carry 
on flowing in the right direction.

What you can do - and this is fairly high-grade evil of a different sort - 
is package the exception-handling specifics in a function, and pass that 
in, to be applied at the appropriate point:

def reverse_the_polarity_of_the_neutron_flow(ie_hdlr):
 	five_hundred_lines_of_code()
 	and_dozens_of_layers_of_nesting_and_indirection()
 	try:
 		interrossitor.activate() # can raise InterrossitorError
 	except InterrossitorError, e:
 		ie_hdlr(e)
 	do_what_we_came_here_to_do()

def handle_interrossitor_error(e):
 	degausser.degauss(interrossitor)
 	interrossitor.activate()
reverse_the_polarity_of_the_neutron_flow(handle_interrossitor_error)

You can even do extra bonus higher-order-functioning:

def reverse_the_polarity_of_the_neutron_flow(ie_hdlr):
 	five_hundred_lines_of_code()
 	and_dozens_of_layers_of_nesting_and_indirection()
 	ie_hdlr(interrossitor.activate)
 	do_what_we_came_here_to_do()

def handle_interrossitor_error(fn):
 	try:
 		fn()
 	except InterrossitorError, e:
 		degausser.degauss(interrossitor)
 		interrossitor.activate()
reverse_the_polarity_of_the_neutron_flow(handle_interrossitor_error)

Although i can't see any reason why you'd want to.

>> - recursive "flatten" as in Ruby (useful)
>
> if you can define the semantics, it's a few lines of code.  if you're 
> not sure about the semantics, a built-in won't help you...

While we're on the subject, we had a big recursive flatten bake-off round 
here a few months back: look for a thread called "flatten(), [was Re: 
map/filter/reduce/lambda opinions andbackground unscientific 
mini-survey]", and filter out the posts with code from the posts with 
rants. There are all sorts of solutions, coming at the problem from 
different angles, but the end of it is more or less here:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.python/msg/0832db53bd2700db

Looking at the code now, i can see a couple of points where i could tweak 
my flatten even more, but i think the few microseconds it might save 
aren't really worth it!

tom

-- 
It is a laborious madness, and an impoverishing one, the madness of
composing vast books. -- Jorge Luis Borges


From daniel.neilson at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 21:11:12 2005
From: daniel.neilson at gmail.com (daniel.neilson at gmail.com)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 18:11:12 -0700
Subject: matching elements of numeric arrays
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2038.1129247582.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129239096.340248.222440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2038.1129247582.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129252272.226343.161440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

Thanks a lot. It was this equal.outer idea that I was missing.



From pdirezze at rogers.com  Mon Oct 10 12:50:18 2005
From: pdirezze at rogers.com (Paul DiRezze)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:50:18 -0400
Subject: Learning Python
Message-ID: <7e6dnQAA36FTBtfeRVn-rg@rogers.com>

I'm spending the next two weeks off and I'm looking to take a crack at 
learning how to program in Python.  Here's a list of the places I've 
bookmarked:

http://www.python.org/doc/ and more specifically
http://wiki.python.org/moin/
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
http://www.python.org/topics/

I'm looking for additional resources (links, names of books, 
whatever...) that you think may help me out.

I'm a hobby programmer using mostly BASIC(s) and some Java.  I know 
procedural programming and I know what encapsulation, inheritance and 
polymorphism are but I have very little experience in using them as I've 
written just a few Java programs (i.e., I guess I could use a primer in 
OO programming).

Any ideas?

paul


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 12 22:36:36 2005
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:36:36 -0400
Subject: Bad magic no. in python zipfile
In-Reply-To: <1129168338.457437.276820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1129168338.457437.276820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1OudnVsv95XVVdDeRVn-rw@powergate.ca>

stewart.midwinter at gmail.com wrote:
\> I'm able to create a new zipfile with the module's ZipFile class and
> add files to it.  After closing the file, I'm able to view the contents
> of it with WinZip.  I can also confirm that it is a python zip file by
> using the is_zipfile() method.  All good so far.  However, under some
> circumstances, I am unable to later read the file and extract its
> contents.  As soon as a I attempt to instantiate a new ZipFile
> instance, I receive an error regarding Bad Magic number.   In the past,
> I've seen that when trying to use a .pyc module, created with one
> Python version, using another Python version.  But in this case, I
> created the zip file under Python 2.4.2 and tried to open it under
> Python 2.4.2 as well.  Any ideas on what to do?  

Maybe try posting the full traceback so we can see the "Bad Magic 
Number" error you are getting...

-Peter


From zhu_dave at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 13:28:25 2005
From: zhu_dave at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python's Performance
In-Reply-To: <434779F1.9080508@designaproduct.biz>
Message-ID: <20051008172825.77615.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, I would like to know how many internal string operations are done inside 
the Python interpreter.
 
Thanks. 

Laszlo Zsolt Nagy <gandalf at designaproduct.biz> wrote:
Dave wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I would like to gather some information on Python's runtime 
> performance. As far as I understand, it deals with a lot of string 
> objects. Does it require a lot string processing during program 
> execution? How does it handle such time-consuming operations? Is there 
> a way to find out how many string operations (perhaps in the 
> underlying system) ) it does during program execution?

Do you want to know how many internal string operations are done inside 
the Python interpreter? I believe it is not a useful information. There 
are benchmarks testing the *real performance* of Python.

For example: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602


Les


		
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From dakman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 14:03:49 2005
From: dakman at gmail.com (dakman at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Oct 2005 11:03:49 -0800
Subject: Arguments for button command via Tkinter?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.31.15.58.47.813776@virgilio.it>
References: <1130768146.414955.106780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1130768592.010756.97890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.31.15.58.47.813776@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <1130785429.572610.86240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Yah, thats how i learned how to do it, thanks.



From claudio.grondi at freenet.de  Mon Oct 10 19:28:45 2005
From: claudio.grondi at freenet.de (Claudio Grondi)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:28:45 -0000
Subject: Wanted: Python module allowing direct access to raw sectors of
	harddrives (MFT, boot sector, etc.) in MS Windows
Message-ID: <3r04p5Fh4lshU1@individual.net>

Googling for keywords like
"direct access sector harddrive Python module Windows"
seems to give no useful results.

Any hints(best if cross-platform)?

Claudio





From ms at cerenity.org  Sun Oct  9 07:29:31 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:29:31 +0100
Subject: What is executed when in a generator
References: <dhtq5k$62c$1@elingue.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <4348fede$0$49800$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

[ I've got no idea of your skill level, but since you say you feel a bit
  lost I'll take baby steps here. Apologies if it's too low or high :-)
  I'm also taking baby steps because less people understand generators than
  they might. After all, most new programmers often want something like
  generators when they start programming, but life gets in their way.
]

Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:

> Could you tell me please where can I read something in depth about the
> semantics of generators? I feel a bit lost.

Watch what happens if you take your example (I'm not convinced it's the
best example for this, but it is your example :-) on the python shell:

>>> gl=0
>>> def gen(x):
...      global gl
...      gl=x
...      yield x
...
>>> s=gen(1)

Clearly this has done something. What you haven't understood by the looks
of things is what and why. Let's take this session a bit further. Let's
find out the value of s:
>>> s
<generator object at 0x40397a8c>

OK, so the call to the generator function returned a generator. That
should make sense to you. This will hopefully make more sense if we make
a few more calls to 'gen' and look at their values.

>>> t=gen(2)
>>> t
<generator object at 0x40397bec>

As you'd expect the next call *also* creates a generator object. You'll
note that it has a different location ( "at 0x....." ) meaning they're
different objects.

Do that a few more times and we see the same:
>>> u=gen(3)
>>> u
<generator object at 0x403979ec>
>>> v=gen(4)
>>> v
<generator object at 0x40397c0c>

What this is doing is creating a generator object which can then be
asked repeatedly to run, and yield values. 

A more accurate term might be iterating over the generator object. However
the /idea/ is that you create the object wrapping a context of/for running
that can suspend its own control and return intemediate values. Clearly
the generator also needs a way of telling us its finished iterating. Let's
make that more concrete. You call the .next() method of the object, and
when it's done it raises a StopIteration exception.

The way we do this with your code is as follows:

>>> s.next()
1

Yay! That's the "1" that you were expecting to see. In your function you
also updated a global "gl". This is probably not a wise idea, but hey,
let's look at what happened to that value:

>>> gl
1

Again, this is what you should have expected - since it's what you were
after.

Again, looking at your function, "yield x" was the last statement, so you
should be wondering what happens next:

>>> s.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
StopIteration

As you can see we get told that it's dropped off the end. If we try calling
again:

>>> s.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
StopIteration

If we retry with the generator objects created above, we can see:

>>> t=gen(2)
>>> u=gen(3)
>>> v=gen(4)
>>> t.next()
2
>>> gl
2
>>> v.next()
4
>>> gl
4

>>> u.next()
3
>>> gl
3

Hopefully that's a clearer explanation of what's actually going on with
your code. A more complex example is based on the example in the PEP:

def configurable_fib(base1=1, base2=1):
    a, b = base1, base2
    while 1:
        yield a
        a,b = b, a+b

>>> def configurable_fib(base1=1, base2=1):
...     a, b = base1, base2
...     while 1:
...         yield a
...         a,b = b, a+b
>>> normal_fib = configurable_fib(1,1)
>>> normal_fib.next()
1
>>> normal_fib.next()
1
>>> normal_fib.next()
2
>>> normal_fib.next()
3

We can then create another one and ask that for values:

>>> normal_fib2 = configurable_fib(1,1)
>>> normal_fib.next(), normal_fib2.next()
(5, 1)
>>> normal_fib.next(), normal_fib2.next()
(8, 1)
>>> normal_fib.next(), normal_fib2.next()
(13, 2)

Or we can create a few, with unusual bases for the fibonacci sequence and
find their first few values. Let's take the bases of 1 to 10.

>>> fibs = [ configurable_fib(x,x) for x in range(1,11) ]
>>> print [ x.next() for x in fibs ]
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> print [ x.next() for x in fibs ]
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> print [ x.next() for x in fibs ]
[2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20]
>>> print [ x.next() for x in fibs ]
[3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30]
>>> print [ x.next() for x in fibs ]
[5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50]

This shows that returning a generator *object* rather than just a value
when you call the generator function is a useful behaviour, even if
initially when learning generators it's slightly counter intuitive.

One way to really understand them though is to try building something
with a whole load of generators. For those purposes, I wrote a tutorial
for our project which is based very much around having lots of generators.
The tutorial is made up of a set of learning exercises:

    * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/MiniAxon/

We've tested this tutorial on a couple of novices at work (they learn
python one week and get this tutorial the next), and they've found it
relatively simple. The first hadn't done any programming before, except
a small amount of VB - he was a pre-university trainee. The second was
a university vacation trainee who'd done 2 years, but had no experience
of the ideas in the tutorial or python before joining us.

It's specifically targeted at novices and might be of use when seeing the
possibilities of what you can actually use generators for.

{ Incidentally if anyone reading this, not just yourself, decides to give
  it a go, I'd really appreciate hearing back from you what you thought
  of it, easy/difficult, clear/unclear, what level of experience you have,
  etc. People don't have to really, I'm posting this because I've noticed
  a couple of people have tried this so far as a means to trying to
  understand generators :-) }

Best Regards and hope the above is useful,


Michael.



From jzgoda at o2.usun.pl  Sat Oct 29 05:46:14 2005
From: jzgoda at o2.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:46:14 +0200
Subject: Automatically creating a HOME environ variable on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1130549236.679806.297670@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djvgei$5t7$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

jim.eggleston at gmail.com napisa?(a):

> Windows doesn't have a HOME environment variable, but it does have
> HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH. Could Windows versions of Python automatically
> populate os.environ with HOME, where HOME =
> os.path.join(os.environ['HOMEDRIVE'], os.environ['HOMEPATH'])?

MS recommends using %USERPROFILE%, as the above in many cases returns
"C:\", which is wrong.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From pmartin at snakecard.com  Fri Oct 21 19:39:31 2005
From: pmartin at snakecard.com (Philippe C. Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:39:31 GMT
Subject: how to modify text in html form from python
References: <0Ra6f.5050$q%.616@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<kab6f.5052$q%.1841@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86d5lyu0j8.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<%Tb6f.5062$q%.3600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<864q7atxcv.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<8je6f.5358$q%.1645@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
	<86mzl2sbpl.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <T_e6f.6359$7h7.6341@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:

> "Philippe C. Martin" <pmartin at snakecard.com> writes:
> 
>> I feel fairly stupid ... but to my defense in the past 17 years of
>> coding, i've only spent 3 days looking at web stuff:
>>
>> I now can understand how "writing" to an existing form field from a cgi
>> script might not work: how would the browser know ?: unless there is a
>> very sophisticated scheme there (as those used in image transfer), I
>> assume the complete page would have to be sent back: so might as well
>> regenerate/rewrite everything.
>>
>> Yes ?
>>
>> I so, I'm back to finding a way for a browser plugin and a server based
>> cgi script to exchange information.
>>
>> Any idea welcome... I know I don't want to open another socket/port but
>> stick to http:80
> 
> Then you're out of luck. You can't even depend on their being an open
> http connection available to use when the plugin runs. The browser may
> well do: Load all data. Close connections. Render page as far as we
> can. Launch code objects that we loaded.
> 
>      <mike
But the plugin "opened" the connection:     var l_w = window.open(l_url,"");

Philippe



From davids at webmaster.com  Thu Oct 27 09:08:22 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:08:22 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <djmc1d$lh2$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <5am333-iia.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoi5p$ell$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b94533-nu5.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djoqkb$hsm$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <4ua533-60t.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<djp4t3$lgu$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pj60m194h7023ro20chuirldl8o29n31ca@4ax.com>
	<djpf90$pbm$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ssr0m1tq3n5uksv0ltaf4edl5sttj47h7g@4ax.com>
	<djq0q8$vnh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<ac51m11gbvthdc5rrb3ojmr41bc27ptuc2@4ax.com>
	<djqcb9$3r6$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<9bj1m11k5l9h5pq2dt4evpp5a2qbsqgfsn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <djqjg7$6db$1@nntp.webmaster.com>

Roedy Green wrote:

> 1. it was a threat to destroy a business -- e.g vandalise tens of
> thousands of dollars of property.  For all practical purpose they
> threatened to steal my business.  It would be roughly the same dollar
> value as threatening to burn down a large house.

    No, it was a threat to stop providing you with a business by allowing 
you to resell their products.

> 2. it was a threat to force me to commit a criminal act -- namely
> extract money from people and hand it to Microsoft and give those
> people nothing of value in return. That in principle is no different
> from demanding I go out an night and rob people and give MS the
> proceeds.  The selected victims were those who expressed a contempt
> for MS products by refusing to buy or even have any need for them.

    If you didn't think Windows was worth paying for, don't sell it. An 
wholesale agreement that prohibits you from selling competing products is 
not at all unusual.

> 3. What MS did was theft, namely taking money from people and giving
> them nothing of value in return against their will.

    Then don't agree to it. All you had to do was say no. All you would have 
lost was the ability to do business *with* *Microsoft*.

> What if MS had simply made the threat without being specific about how
> they were going to carry it off? Would you consider MS so innocent
> then?

    If it could have been in any way taken as a threat to use force, lie to 
others about your company, file a lawsuit knowing it had no merit, or 
anything of the like, then I would not consider MS innocent at all. To my 
mind, that is where the line is drawn.

    But in this case, all it seems that Microsoft threatened to do was to 
prohibit you from doing business with them. And all they wanted in exchange 
was more of what being able to sell their products was actually worth to 
you.

    The point here is that Microsoft was offering you something of 
tremendous value to you. And they, in return, asked for a lot of money from 
you. It's really this simple -- is the money they want from you more or less 
than the value? If yes, you have no right to complain. If no, why ever did 
you agree?

    DS




From python_it at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 13 10:53:45 2005
From: python_it at hotmail.com (Python_it)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 07:53:45 -0700
Subject: cgi python
Message-ID: <1129215225.778017.20340@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

I going to use the cgi-handler (mod_python):

http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-3.2.2b/doc-html/hand-cgi.html


If I test a simply py script it works

code:
===========
print "Content-type: text/html\n"
print """
<html>
<body>
<h1>TEST</h1>
</body>
</html>
"""
============

But if I test a py script with cgi comments (import cgi):

Part of the code
============
import cgi

#get HTTP query parameters
query = cgi.FieldStorage()

#Get the selected year and month
selectedYear = int(query["year"].value)
selectedMonth = int(query["x"].value) + 1

#Get the monthly revenue
monthlyRevenue = float(query["value"].value)
============

I get the following error:

errormessage:
==========================
Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.cgihandler"

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\apache.py", line 299, in
HandlerDispatch
    result = object(req)

  File "C:\Program
Files\Python24\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\cgihandler.py", line 96, in
handler
    imp.load_module(module_name, fd, path, desc)

  File "C:/Program Files/Apache
Group/Apache2/htdocs/clue/modules/templates\clickpie.py", line 9, in ?
    selectedYear = int(query["year"].value)

  File "C:\Program Files\Python24\Lib\cgi.py", line 559, in __getitem__
    raise KeyError, key

KeyError: 'year'


Who can help me?



From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Thu Oct 13 23:11:35 2005
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:11:35 +1000
Subject: CSV module and Mac excel format problem 
In-Reply-To: <372F951A-3C5E-11DA-9C8A-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca> 
References: <372F951A-3C5E-11DA-9C8A-000A27B3B070@eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <20051014031135.D4B987940DD@longblack.object-craft.com.au>

>Hi. I have had good success with CSV module but recently came across 
>problem with reading excel from Mac Office.  The trouble is with line 
>endings.  Instead of \r\n you have just \r and the file as a whole 
>appears as a single line. CSV coughs and provides this exception:
>
>_csv.Error: newline inside string
>
>Saving as Windows (text) in Mac Office solves this but I don't 
>necessarily want to force users to save this way just to avoid 
>modifying my code. There is a lineterminator in the package.  Adding 
>parameter lineterminator='\r' did not correct the problem.

Open the file in universal-newline mode - for example:

    sample = open(filename, 'rU')

"lineterminator" is only used for output - we use the supplied iterator
(and whatever conventions it imposes) for input. 

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/


From aisaac0 at verizon.net  Tue Oct 25 17:07:58 2005
From: aisaac0 at verizon.net (David Isaac)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:07:58 GMT
Subject: grep
References: <Nvk7f.14699$gF4.11900@trnddc07><1130223409.28336.2.camel@blackwidow>
	<mailman.2511.1130226871.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <O8x7f.1829$I65.860@trnddc01>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote::
    def grep(pattern, *files):
        search = re.compile(pattern).search
        for file in files:
            for index, line in enumerate(open(file)):
                if search(line):
                    print ":".join((file, str(index+1), line[:-1]))
    grep("grep", *glob.glob("*.py"))


I was afraid the re module was the answer.  ;-)
Use of enumerate is a nice idea.
Thanks.
Alan




From mde at micah.elliott.name  Thu Oct  6 12:31:50 2005
From: mde at micah.elliott.name (Micah Elliott)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:31:50 -0700
Subject: Compile as static
In-Reply-To: <1128591773.4344f19d7b429@webmail.sussex.ac.uk>
References: <1128591773.4344f19d7b429@webmail.sussex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20051006163150.GG32363@kitchen.client.attbi.com>

On Oct 06, tjue1 at sussex.ac.uk wrote:
> Has anyone had any luck with this? Im trying to compile python 2.4.2 on
> Slackware 10.1 into one large executable. One which contains everything
> required to run python (as static). So python doesn't look for
> dynamically shared objects like libpthread.so.0.
> 
> I have tried ./configure --disable-dynamic
>                          --enable-dynamic=NO
>                          --enable-static
> 
> However the executable size is always the same :/ Please assist.

ldd is your friend for seeing the dependencies.  I see what you mean,
though.  I'm no autoconf expert, but AFAICT this was not an intended
feature.  My attempted grok of the Makefile also supports this theory.
And I don't see any of the options you specified as being valid.  Using
"--disable-shared" also doesn't affect "python", but does appear to make
libpython static, but I think it is regardless.  You can force the issue
with:

   $ ../configure ...
   $ make LDFLAGS=-static
   $ ls -l ./python
   -rwxr-xr-x  1 mdelliot support 2888818 Oct  6 08:06 ./python
   $ ldd ./python
   not a dynamic executable

But this gives some import warnings, and running has some problems...

Then I found these, indicating that it is easy ;-)

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/9407982ad24b62ec/5018f9abebaa285a?lnk=st&q=build+python+static&rnum=3&hl=en#5018f9abebaa285a

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/1ac371489ed4040b/076580464204cd79?lnk=st&q=build+python+static&rnum=5&hl=en#076580464204cd79

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/c532cc6469e29488/c6fcc1afbd7c41b0?lnk=st&q=build+python+static&rnum=17&hl=en#c6fcc1afbd7c41b0

It might be nice to have an autoconf option to make this more obvious
for guys like us.  Maybe this is just a rare need.

-- 
Micah Elliott
<mde at micah.elliott.name>


From darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:59:01 2005
From: darkpaladin79 at hotmail.com (Ivan Shevanski)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 11:59:01 -0400
Subject: noob question Letters in words?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.10.08.03.26.14.393951@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F5F1869B46FFE4E900D339A2870@phx.gbl>

Thanks everyone for helping once again, lots of good ideas there

Thanks,

-Ivan

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 25 04:51:17 2005
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:51:17 +0200
Subject: how to use new AST goodies
References: <1130200430.365124.211950@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <djkrma$486$1@sea.gmane.org>

Simon Burton wrote:

> I'd like to experiment with this, does anyone know where to start ?

with the "once there is" parts, probably (see below).

> It seems that the parser module still produces the same junk as before.
> So where do we find these nice high level AST objects ?

here's a nice summary:

    http://www.amk.ca/diary/2005/10/the_ast_branch_lands_1

which ends with:

    "The primary benefit is that it should now be easier to write optimization
    passes and tools such as PyChecker or refactoring browsers, particularly
    once there's a Python interface to the AST and once everything is
    documented."

</F> 





From pydecker at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 11:30:59 2005
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:30:59 -0400
Subject: Reply-To header
In-Reply-To: <laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <2ECA6FE9-3C8F-4C60-9E89-70CC078B14EF@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1370.1128343310.509.python-list@python.org>
	<laa0f.11129$SS1.481410@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <ca55a9900510030830scc7bf21y5b542ff4545a88af@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/05, Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Indeed, and that's by design: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Of course, that's only one side of the argument:

http://www.blackgate.net/consulting/reply-to_munging_useful.html

On lists like this, where everyone benefits by sharing information, it
seems pretty lame to hide behind purist arguments about Reply-To:
headers. The default behavior should be the one most useful to the
list. Think for a moment how many useful bits of information you've
missed because the default for this list it to make conversations
private.

--

# p.d.


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 22 19:55:45 2005
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:55:45 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com> <86ll0vs1sw.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<dis0ve$m65$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djeha1$ouh$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
Message-ID: <86k6g59ke6.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>

"David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:
> "Steven D'Aprano" <steve at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote in message 
> news:pan.2005.10.22.09.12.53.825745 at REMOVETHIScyber.com.au...
>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:47:27 -0700, David Schwartz wrote:
>>>> That's basic economics. Something which can be allowed or ignored or 
>>>> even
>>>> encouraged when done by small businesses in a competitive market can
>>>> easily become harmful and bad for the economy when done by a monopolist 
>>>> or
>>>> duopolist in an uncompetitive market.
>>>     Microsoft goal is and should be their own success, not the success of
>>> the economy or the market in general.
>> Neither I, nor you, nor the government of any nation, should care a
>> monkey's toss specifically for Microsoft's success. Microsoft is one
>> special interest, out of a potentially unbounded number of possible
>> players in the economy of a country and the world.
>     No, not at all. It is the gravest act of self-contradiction to maintain 
> that one should be allowed to pursue one's own interest while denying that 
> same right to others.

Not at all. No one is denying anyones right to purssue their own
interest. What's being denied is the right to use illegal means to do
so. If MS restricted themselves to legal means, no one would have a
problem with them.

>> Unless you or I are specifically shareholders in Microsoft, we should not
>> care about their specific success; and the government should be entirely
>> agnostic about who are the winners and losers in an economy.
>     We should certainly care that Microsoft be allowed to pursue their own 
> success. The government should be agnostic about who the winners and losers 
> are, but must respect each entity's right to attempt to be that winner.

Nice thought. Unfortunately, the government doesn't work that
way. They believe that a practical monopoly is a bad thing, and limit
the things such a company can do, and have been known to disassemble
companies they believe are harming the economy in general.

>> The
>> government's role should be to ensure a level playing field, and minimum
>> levels of health, safety and environmental standards. There is no place
>> for government giving special-interests like Microsoft favours.
>     The problem is, people complain when the playing field is in fact level. 
> For example, Microsoft's "exclusionary" Windows agreements didn't ask for 
> more than Windows was worth (or nobody would have agreed to them). Yet they 
> are considered examples of the playing field not being level.

No, they didn't ask for more than Windows were worth. They tilted the
playing field against MS competitors by causing consumers to pay MS
money for products they didn't receive. In most countries, taking
money from unwilling victims without giving them anything in exchange
is called "theft".

>> Microsoft's behaviour over-all has been just as anti-social,
>> anti-competitive and harmful to the over-all running of the economy as a
>> hypothetical Walmart or Safeway that regularly parked their trucks in the
>> middle of the main road for a few hours while they unloaded.
>     The problem is, the government does not own the economy. So it does not 
> get to manage it the way it gets to manage the roads it in fact owns.

Sorry, but you're wrong. The government *does* own the econnomy. Who
do you think originally created all the money that is flowing through
it? The government charges you for the privilege of participating in
their economy - it's called "income tax". 2000 years ago Christ knew
who owned the economy, and said "Render unto Ceaser that which is
Ceasers."

>> Maybe, just maybe, if Mom & Pop's Corner Store tried it once or twice, we
>> could afford to turn a blind eye, especially if the disruption caused by
>> towing their delivery van was greater than the disruption caused by their
>> double-parking. Thousands of people break the law by double-parking for a
>> few minutes, and society doesn't collapse. But something that we can
>> afford to ignore when done by M&P's Corner Store becomes a serious problem
>> if done by somebody with the economic power of Walmart, with their
>> thousands of deliveries by 18-wheelers every day across the country.
>     Again, the analogy fails. You are comparing the government's right to 
> manage its own property with the government's "right" to interfere with 
> other people's right to manage their property.

Sorry, but nobody but the government actually owns property. In most
places, you can't make non-trivial changes to "your" property without
permission from the government. They even charge you rent on "your"
property, only they call it "property tax".

>>> Microsoft's status of a "monopolist"
>>> is only meaningful if you define the market as "desktop operating systems
>>> for 32-bit x86 computers".
>> That is *precisely* the market we're talking about. Not "any item that
>> runs off electricity", not "orange juice", not "pork bellies", not "all
>> computing devices", but desktop PCs. What did you think the Justice
>> Department's investigation was about? Motor vehicles?
>     I thought it was about operating systems, actually. And I thought that 
> both OSX and Linux competed with it.

I guess it hasn't sunk in yet that the existence of competition
doesn't keep a company from being a monopoly. But it does. Companies
that owned less of their market than MS owns of it's market have been
broken up. A classic monopoly behavior is to want the competition to
survive "just barely", because that gives them leverage in
court. Which is why MS has helped out Apple in the past.

>>> There is no way Microsoft could have expected the
>>> market to be defined in this way and no way to argue that Microsoft had 
>>> any
>>> reason to believe their conduct was illegal.
>> Microsoft have lawyers. Microsoft destroyed emails and at least one senior
>> manager perjured himself in court. Microsoft created a fake video
>> demonstration which they then gave as evidence. Do you really believe that
>> Microsoft's executives are so incompetent that they don't get legal advice
>> before writing up contracts? Or that nobody in authority at Microsoft
>> realised that destroying evidence and lying to a judge are crimes?
>     When a criminal willing to use force points a gun at your head, you lie 
> to him.

You sound like an anarchist to me. This wasn't a criminal, this was
the government. Lieing to random individuals isn't a crime. Lieing to
the government is.

>> In any case, even if you are right that Microsoft had no ideas... so what?
>> Ignorance of the law never has been an excuse for criminal behaviour. It
>> has always been every individual's responsibility to make sure that they
>> do not act illegally, and that goes for companies as well.
>     I am not saying Microsoft did not know the law. I am saying that no 
> rational person could have expected the law to be applied to Microsoft that 
> way it was. The law *must* put a person on notice of precisely what conduct 
> it prohibits. However, in this case, the law's applicability was conditioned 
> on an abritrary and irrational choice of what the relevant market was.

MS has a long history of dancing with the DOJ, and has been repeatedly
warned about the legality - or lack thereof - of their behavior. No
rational person who knew of that history could expect the law to be
applied to MS in any way other than the way it was.

   <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From davids at webmaster.com  Mon Oct 24 18:26:22 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:26:22 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <yw1x4q7il3gu.fsf@ford.inprovide.com>
	<diso3l$uf4$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <b15923-vj4.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7dkr$rra$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <33sj23-6om.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<dj7rfg$108$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <t1bk23-age.ln1@news.it.uc3m.es>
	<1129826863.422951.146970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2005.10.22.03.58.40.332401@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<djcg8s$1qf$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<70njl1t0gu91o2redeptktvsjp8lprao02@4ax.com>
	<djegt1$onl$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<s3oll1tbve3t5h4c8eghbqihsuuusj72nc@4ax.com>
	<djenjt$r2o$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<slrndlpdig.hdl.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<djjef5$jqk$1@nntp.webmaster.com> <m3irvma9w3.fsf@invalid.address>
Message-ID: <djjn2f$n2f$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


<joe at invalid.address> wrote in message 
news:m3irvma9w3.fsf at invalid.address...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> writes:

>>     I think you need to look up "extortion" in a dictionary. I can
>> walk up to you and say "if you want me to mow your lawn, you must
>> pay me $1 every time you smoke a cigarette". So long as you can say
>> "no" and all that happens is that I don't mow your lawn (which I
>> have no obligation to do anyway), it isn't extortion.

> Extortion isn't the right word, of course. Nevertheless, being unable
> to pay for a computer without also having to pay for an operating
> system I don't want seems wrong to me.

    Then don't do it.

> Yes, I have alternatives, I generally buy components and put them
> together myself. But why should I have to do that simply to avoid
> paying  for an OS I'm not going to use?

    When you are not in the majority, you are going to face inconveniences. 
You'd face the same inconvenience if you wanted to buy a new car without 
seats. Most people wants cars with seats, so that's the way they're 
packaged.

> The way this seems to work in practice strikes me as questionable at
> best. Perhaps not illegal (IANAL so I don't know that) but certainly
> one-sided. For one example, see
>
> http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html

    This, I think, is unacceptable.

    DS




From toufeeqh at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 06:10:40 2005
From: toufeeqh at gmail.com (Toufeeq Hussain)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:40:40 +0530
Subject: Help needed in OOP-Python
In-Reply-To: <c293dd340510050044t35e86d09h5d7a3a3c344d00f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c293dd340510042234s74a4db47x85bdd5658a1ad803@mail.gmail.com>
	<dhvpto$o0q$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c293dd340510042323o14db7dcdn43b7f21c376b2e48@mail.gmail.com>
	<dhvvd0$5dh$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c293dd340510050044t35e86d09h5d7a3a3c344d00f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c293dd340510050310s376eb5ebw3088cfa48bc28bc7@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Fredrik.

Went through the code to make sure "self" was used properly and one of the
parent classes was missing a "self".It's fixed now.

/me kicks self

-toufeeq

On 10/5/05, Toufeeq Hussain <toufeeqh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Fredrik,
>
> sigh!
> I see the problem you mention and I agree.
> Should have posted the orginal code without edits. :(
> Anyway I'll try to fill in whereever required.
>
> On 10/5/05, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > $ python test.py
> > condition satisfied
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > File "test.py", line 4, in ?
> > Test_Case.Option1_constraint()
> > File "module3.py", line 11, in Option1_constraint
> > self.FOO_warning.Fire()
> > AttributeError: Option1_Rule1 instance has no attribute 'FOO_warning'
> >
> > FOO_warning? there's no FOO_warning anywhere in the code.
>
>
> FOO_warning is "Option1_warning" from Module3.
>
> And, in Module1 comment out the line:
> "common_subs.write_to_out_file( 'FOO_OUT',self.Warn_text)"
>
> :::
> >
> > so, after four attempts, I've found four problems, three of which was
> > present
> > in your posted code, but I still haven't seen the problem you reported:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > File "test_case.py", line 7, in ?
> > TH = constraint.Option1_Rule1()
> > File " constraint.py", line 13, in __init__
> > declaration.Option1.__init__(self)
> > TypeError: __init__() takes no arguments (1 given)
>
>
> But the script when given as individual commands works fine in IDLE.
> While executing the script it throws that error. :(
>
> which, in itself, looks like you've forgotten the self argument in some
> > init
> > method somewhere (but the code you posted doesn't have that problem).
>
>
> Yes,I've doubled checked this.
>
> if you want to post code, 1) try to reduce the problem to as little code
> > as you
> > possibly can, and 2) make sure that the code you post really has the
> > problem
> > you're seeing... (i.e. run it at least once before you post it)
>
>
> All points noted and will follow the same.
> Thanks and my sincere apologies.
>
> -toufeeq
> --
> Get Firefox:http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
> The fastest, safest and best Browser !!
>



--
Get Firefox:http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
The fastest, safest and best Browser !!
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From sjuranic at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 11:11:15 2005
From: sjuranic at gmail.com (Steve Juranich)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:11:15 -0700
Subject: Swig and Python
In-Reply-To: <1128429987.357140.111280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128429987.357140.111280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56190b6c0510040811x7195ab95t649c9ee2c77000de@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 Oct 2005 05:46:27 -0700, Java and Swing <codecraig at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Ok, so I have a couple questions.
> 1)  How would I call MakeDigits from python?  In the C code I would
> normally have something like...
>         MY_DIGIT tmp[10];
>         MakeDigits(tmp);

How I usually do this is to write a typemap so that MY_DIGIT arrays
are automagically converted to/from regular python lists.  See the
SWIG docs on writing typemaps.  When that is done, you can call it
just like this:

MakeDigits(range(10))
MakeDigits([1, 3, 5, 7, 9])
# etc.

> 2)  How would I call GetString?  Again, in C I would have...
>         char *ptr;
>         char msg[100] = "Hello World";
>         MY_DIGIT x = 98;
>         ptr = GetString(msg, x);

This should happen for you fairly automatically:

GetString('Hello World', 98)

> 3) Did I define MY_DIGIT correctly in my SWIG interface file?

I can't really say.  I don't use typedefs all that much.  You can
always look at the generated C/C++ code to see if it looks right. 
Read the docs on the Python/C API if you haven't already.

> 4) If I try the following Python code...
>         x = new_digit_array()
>         print x
>    then Python.exe dies...any idea?

Smells like a segfault from here.  Might have to put some printfs in
the generated code to find out exactly what's happening.

> thanks for the help.  I am trying to find my answers int he SWIG
> docs...either i haven't found it or I didn't understand when I came
> across it.

The SWIG user community also has a very helpful list.  Check out
http://www.swig.org/mail.html for more info.  You might find that your
SWIG related issues get addressed more quickly when posting to the
SWIG list.  There are lots of Python hackers on the list, too.  So
don't be afraid to ask fairly Python-centric questions either.

--
Steve Juranich
Tucson, AZ
USA


From dinamo99 at lycos.com  Sun Oct 23 02:52:26 2005
From: dinamo99 at lycos.com (Joe)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:52:26 GMT
Subject: downloading web images 
Message-ID: <KqG6f.269292$1i.195859@pd7tw2no>

I'm just wandering if I'm doing this correct way I'm trying to download an
image and store it into a file this does the job, but created file does not
apear to be an image, it works fine and I can open image, I'm just
wandering if there is a better way of doing this. 

htmlSource=urllib.urlopen("http://www.godandscience.org/images/nebula.jpg")
# Read from the object, storing the page's contents in 's'.
s = htmlSource.read()
htmlSource.close()
myfile = open("myfile.jpg", "w")
myfile.write(s)
myfile.close

Thanks


From jeremy at emperorlinux.com  Wed Oct  5 23:25:11 2005
From: jeremy at emperorlinux.com (Jeremy Moles)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:25:11 -0400
Subject: Absolultely confused...
In-Reply-To: <di3dft$g99$1@news.sap-ag.de>
References: <mailman.1610.1128607227.509.python-list@python.org>
	<di3dft$g99$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <1128569111.3513.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Well, there's certainly no doubting that all of you are right. I guess
now I need to track down how this is happening and either fix it or
understand it so that I can explain why I'm having to work around it. :)

Many, many thanks. :)

On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 16:48 +0200, Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> Jeremy Moles wrote:
> > So, here is my relevant code:
> > 
> > 	PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &PyType_vector3d, &arg1)
> > 
> > And here ismy error message:
> > 
> > 	argument 1 must be pylf.core.vector3d, not pylf.core.vector3d
> > 
> 
> It looks as if two PyType_vector3d exist in your system
> - the one that created the object passed to your routine
> - the one in your extension code
> 
> As PyType_vector3d probably comes from a shared object/DLL
> - does your code accesses really the same shared object that is also 
> loaded by the Python interpreter? It could be that you linked with a 
> specific file, but Python loads something different from $PYTHONPATH
> - on Windows, you couldn't simply import a variable from a DLL, you had 
> to call a special routine to get the pointer
> 
> One possible portable solution: in your module initialization
> - import pylf.core
> - create an object of type vector3d
> - use your knowledge about the inner structure of Python objects and get 
> the pointer to the PyType from the object
> - store it in a module static variable TypeVector3D
> - pass that variable to PyArg_ParseTuple
> 
> Browse the Python Extension API, maybe partts or all of this are already 
> available.
> 
> There's still a problem left when pylf.core gets reloaded (rare, but 
> possible). I assume the shared object also gets reloaded, which means 
> that the type objects gets loaded to a new address and PyArg_ParseTuple 
> will complain again. I'm not sure if there is a solution to this, 
> because there still could be objects create from the old module.
> 
> Maybe you should just check the type yourself by comparing the class 
> names buried in the PyType. You could cache one or two type pointers to 
> speed this up.
> 
> Daniel



From stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de  Mon Oct 17 05:30:40 2005
From: stefan.behnel-n05pAM at web.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:30:40 +0200
Subject: ANN: MathDOM 0.5.2 - MathML in Python - now featuring lxml API!
Message-ID: <divr12$54a$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hi everyone,

MathDOM 0.5.2 is ready for download from SourceForge.

http://mathdom.sourceforge.net/

MathDOM is a set of Python modules (using pyparsing and either PyXML or lxml)
that import mathematical terms as a Content MathML DOM. It currently parses
MathML and literal infix terms into a DOM and writes out MathML and literal
infix, prefix, postfix or Python terms. The DOM elements are enhanced by
domain specific methods that make using the DOM a little easier.

You can call it the shortest way between different term representations and an
enhanced Content MathML DOM. Ever noticed the annoying differences between
terms in different programming languages? Build your application around the
DOM and stop caring about the term representation that users prefer or that
your machine can execute. If you need a different representation, add a
converter, but don't change the model. Literal terms are connected through an
intermediate AST step that makes writing converters for
Python/SQL/yourfavorite easier.

** New in 0.5.2 **

This release features the original 4DOM based API as well as a completely new
API based on a patched version of lxml. lxml is an ElementTree like API on top
of libxml2, which combines fast XPath, XSLT, XInclude, etc. computation with
the ease of a pythonesque API. Try it, it's worth making the change.

Have fun,
Stefan


From gandalf at designaproduct.biz  Thu Oct  6 06:53:15 2005
From: gandalf at designaproduct.biz (Laszlo Zsolt Nagy)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:53:15 +0200
Subject: Help-log in to a web page
In-Reply-To: <6x61f.11$nq6.8@news.oracle.com>
References: <aM51f.8$nq6.116@news.oracle.com>	<mailman.1594.1128589260.509.python-list@python.org>	<zf61f.10$nq6.24@news.oracle.com>
	<6x61f.11$nq6.8@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <4345021B.1020406@designaproduct.biz>


>>
>> I tried to view the source,it has,
>>   ....
>>  ....
>>          src="/em/cabo/images /t.gif" height="80"></td><td><table 
>> align="center" border="0" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="0"><tr 
>> id="username
>>         __xc_"><td align="right" nowrap><span class="x8"><span 
>> title="Required" class="xc">*</span>&nbsp;*User Name</s
>>         pan></td><td width="12"><img src="/em/cabo/images/t.gif" 
>> width="12"></td><td valign="top" nowrap><input
>>         id="username" class="x4" onkeypress="return 
>> _submitOnEnter(event, 'User');" name="j_username" size="30"
>>         type="text" value="myadmin"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" 
>> nowrap><span class="x8"><span title="Required"
>>         class="xc">*</span>&nbsp;Password</span></td><td 
>> width="12"><img src="/em/cabo/images/t.gif" width="12"></td
>>         ><td valign="top" nowrap><input id="M__Id" class="x4" 
>> name="j_password" size="30*" autocomplete="off" type="p
>> ...
>> ...
>
Either it is a javascript or a form. Most likely this will be a normal 
form, like:

<form method="POST" action="login.php">
  <input name="login" type="text">
  <input name="pwd" type="text">
</form>

This is another authentication method that is used frequently. You need 
to POST the login/password and other parameters to the URL specified by 
the "action" attribute of the "form" tag.

Say, if you download the above HTML page from http://here.net/there

then you should POST your login data  to

http://here.net/there/login.php

The response may contain cookies - you need to use them to keep yourself 
logged in.

Please read documentation about these:

- HTML forms
- HTTP cookies

and then read the docs of the urllib module here:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urllib.html

It has parts where you can learn how to POST or GET data.
If you need to handle cookies as well (probably, this is true in your 
case), you might want to change to urllib2

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urllib2.html

because it has support for cookies.

Don't do anything until you understand what cookies and HTML forms are.
(And don't ask about them here - it is not about Python programming...)

Best,

   Les


From scott.daniels at acm.org  Tue Oct 18 14:40:25 2005
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:40:25 -0700
Subject: Why asci-only symbols?
In-Reply-To: <43545340.277176128@news.oz.net>
References: <86vf04zx0k.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<434ccfcd$0$28021$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4351cef6.112238340@news.oz.net>
	<4352289a$0$15038$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4353085a.192466642@news.oz.net>
	<435434f1$0$5767$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<43545340.277176128@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <43554106@nntp0.pdx.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> <on tracking the encodings of literal generated astrings>

The big problem you'll hit is figuring out how to use these strings.
Which string ops preserve the encoding?  Even the following is
problematic:

     #-*- coding: utf-8 -*-
     name = 'Martin L?wis'

    brokenpart = name[: 9]

Because brokenpart is not a correct utf-8 encoding of anything.
The problem is that there is no good way to propagate the
encoding without understanding the purpose of the operations
themselves.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.daniels at acm.org


From my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid  Sun Oct  9 03:27:04 2005
From: my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid (Roedy Green)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 07:27:04 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.10.04.23.38.40.465171@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au>
	<csbgk199k2jkvcdl6v0s2jd6q6s6k9d1to@4ax.com>
	<863bnbofe5.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
	<PK-dnZZdetOs39Xe4p2dnA@telenor.com>
	<p1igk1lrkf54of1apt1vdssqnjb6qdtpj1@4ax.com>
	<86psqfmukd.fsf@bhuda.mired.org>
Message-ID: <sghhk1hcom1adf7ic99j253bks1j54iqs4@4ax.com>

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:56:50 -0400, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote
or quoted :

>Show us *examples*! Do you create a style sheet for every site you
>visit that overrides there classes? What?

Why don't you download a copy of Opera, see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/opera.html

Then try out the feature.  Click View | style | user
-- 
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Oct 10 00:28:18 2005
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: 10 Oct 2005 04:28:18 GMT
Subject: Jargons of Info Tech industry
References: <1123809822.696399.317570@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124736189.749363.32160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<1124804082_1011@spool6-east.superfeed.net>
	<3nd5k1dhv77j1bs88qjdl66cc0jnattvka@4ax.com>
	<11k5gjpqkt7878b@corp.supernews.com>
	<1pbgk1pbcu3u27vblor052ass03epq5vqr@4ax.com>
	<Pine.SOL.4.58.0510081632220.21577@excalibur>
	<Xns96E9BDC924CC0castleamber@130.133.1.4>
	<85hhk1d9ife3gvk6co97ra03u4hah7o8i8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns96EAEEC1B9C8Bcastleamber@130.133.1.4>

Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website at munged.invalid> wrote:

> On 8 Oct 2005 23:39:27 GMT, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote or
> quoted :
> 
>>Yeah, yeah, and 640K is enough for everybody. Same song, different tune.
> 
> For how long.  Surely attachments are a stop gap. Can you imagine
> people sharing images that way 100 years from now?

No, but I agree with you :-) I am not using HTML myself in email, but I 
will when it makes things easier.

> Why should we wait for the future?  The problems blocking easy to use
> photo sharing are not technological but social.

Yup, agreed. Like I already wrote, if I route all HTML email to /dev/null 
I'll lose some customers, and some friends :-)

-- 
John                   Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
               Perl programmer available:     http://castleamber.com/
                                        I ploink googlegroups.com :-)
                        


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct 11 03:36:41 2005
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 11 Oct 2005 07:36:41 GMT
Subject: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions
References: <3q4ro9Fd770nU3@individual.net>
	<mailman.1655.1128664871.509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrndki4h7.55g.zen19725@cabalamat.somewhere>
	<mailman.1860.1128980285.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrndkmqs9.32p.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2005-10-10, Terry Hancock schreef <hancock at anansispaceworks.com>:
> On Sunday 09 October 2005 07:50 am, phil hunt wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>> >GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e.
>> >reading it as written pretty much makes sense).
>> 
>> I know, let's re-write Python to make it more like COBOL! That's 
>> bound to be a winner!
>
> Whereas the "natural order" of "condition affirmative negative" is natural
> for what reason?  That it is so in C?
>
> I don't find that so compelling either, frankly.  Why should it really
> matter in the end?  I've always found C's order (and punctuation) confusing,
> I have to look it up practically everytime I use it or have to read it 
> (which correlates to it being used very rarely, with causality in both
> directions).
>
> Given that situation, choosing a form which is easy to read is surely
> an advantage, and, since it is the way that Python has handled logic
> in the past, it makes sense to continue doing so.

Personnaly I would think some consistency between conditional
expressions and conditional statements would have been a good
thing. I haven't seen a discussion where the following kind of
if statement was discussed.

do:
  return a[0]
if a[0] < a[1] else:
  return a[1[

> No doubt, ANY choice of ternary operator for Python will be
> criticized, and no doubt, ANY choice would nevertheless be
> usable.

Agreed, I think having it is more important than what form
it comes in. My preference has more to do with consistency
with the statement.

> OTOH, I think this choice is consistent with the rest of Python's
> design. The general choice to use keyword operators for LOGIC
> and symbolic operators for MATH is retained, and so long as we're
> describing the logic in words, it makes sense for the wording
> to sound natural.
>
> Consistency certainly does make it easier for me to remember.

I think that a consistency within the language would have
made more sense than consistency with someone's mother
tongue. When I program I program in python or some other
programming language. Not in english, dutch, french or
some other natural language.

But for me this is just style talk. I don't care that much
for style, I'm more concerned with functionality and I'm
glad this functionality will become available.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Oct 13 15:01:13 2005
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 13 Oct 2005 20:01:13 +0100
Subject: Well written open source Python apps
References: <1129214592.342917.100090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7jchw8au.fsf@pobox.com>

"Ben" <bwsanders at gmail.com> writes:

> Could anyone suggest an open source project that has particularly well
> written Python?  I am especially looking for code that people would
> describe as "very Python-ic".  (Not trying to start any kind of war -
> just wanted some good examples of a well written Python app to read.)
[...]

At the time I looked at it I thought this was nice, though that was
some time ago (it was still 'sketch' then) so I wonder if I'd still
have the same opinion if I looked now (due to me changing my view of
"good code", not the skencil source code changing!):

http://www.nongnu.org/skencil/


John



From davecook at nowhere.net  Sat Oct 29 14:42:21 2005
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:42:21 GMT
Subject: Any Pythonic GTK Undo library?
References: <*firstname*nlsnews-62BA42.13375929102005@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <slrndm7gku.e68.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

On 2005-10-29, Tony Nelson <*firstname*nlsnews at georgea*lastname*.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for a "pythonic" GTK Undo library/class.  It would have a 

You might ask the authors of Kiwi if they plan to add undo/redo.  Or help
them add it if you can.

http://www.async.com.br/projects/kiwi/

It would be great to have this feature in the Gtk C API, though.  I do see
some relevant bugzilla entries:

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=316551

You might want to make a new request for a general undo/redo interface.

Dave Cook


From davids at webmaster.com  Sat Oct 15 19:57:17 2005
From: davids at webmaster.com (David Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:57:17 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
References: <1129341702.532198.224880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<neq0l153mbhu758inptt5sc7jfsf5bqkaq@4ax.com>
	<11l16dst501kjdd@corp.supernews.com>
	<a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4@4ax.com>
	<dis138$m68$1@nntp.webmaster.com>
	<Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <dis512$nlp$1@nntp.webmaster.com>


"John Bokma" <john at castleamber.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns96F0B7AE1A639castleamber at 130.133.1.4...

> "David Schwartz" <davids at webmaster.com> wrote:

>> "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
>> news:a103l1tkejrc99s0385qjqqhm96d46dpc4 at 4ax.com...

>>> Part of their behavior really escape me.  The whole thing about
>>> browser wars confuses me.  Web browsers represent a zero billion
>>> dollar a year market.  Why would you risk anything to own it?

>>     It really isn't that hard to understand that web-based
>>     applications that
>> work in any browser on any OS threaten to make it irrelevent what OS
>> you're running.

> And it's even easier to understand that your statement is nonsense.

    To you, if you don't understand it.

> It doesn't matter which Linux distribution you pick, all use the Linux
> kernel. On all I can run OpenOffice, and get the same results. Yet people
> seem to prefer one distribution over one other.

    Right, and that's what Microsoft wants to avoid. They wants to make sure 
people *have* to choose a Microsoft operating system to get their 
applications to work. He doesn't want most applications to work the same on 
all operating systems. MS was afraid the browser would replace the operating 
system in the sense that it would be the target platform for applications.

>> MS has a strong interest in making sure it's important
>> to be running on one of their OSes.

> Maybe *they* do have a point :-).

    Well, they have their vision of the future of computing, and you can bet 
all things made by Microsoft are at the center of it.

    DS




From stephen at theboulets.net  Fri Oct  7 16:04:46 2005
From: stephen at theboulets.net (stephen at theboulets.net)
Date: 7 Oct 2005 13:04:46 -0700
Subject: Saving an image to file from windows clipboard
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1719.1128714861.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128713363.664540.84030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1719.1128714861.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128715486.858009.112460@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks -- works as advertised.

Stephen



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct  2 18:31:44 2005
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:31:44 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack
References: <dhpem5$nne$1@online.de>
	<mailman.1354.1128285272.509.python-list@python.org>
	<dhpk5m$lcu$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <dhpn42$q9o$00$1@news.t-online.com>

g.franzkowiak wrote:

> tmpList = list(dataObject)[:4])
> obj     = tmpList[0]+tmpList[1]+tmpList[2]+tmpList[3].

Have you tried just

obj = dataObject[:4]

without the intermediate list? If that failed, can you tell us the type of
the dataObject? E. g.

>>> print type(dataObject)
<class '__main__.NeitherListNorString'>

Peter



From salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr  Sun Oct  2 08:10:17 2005
From: salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr (salvatore.didio at wanadoo.fr)
Date: 2 Oct 2005 05:10:17 -0700
Subject: Nufox : Xul + Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1343.1128252067.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1128163366.631178.74800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<1128182754.232912.9980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1320.1128183336.509.python-list@python.org>
	<433f051f$0$49786$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
	<1128249650.166566.81790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1343.1128252067.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1128255017.708134.49380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

You are perfectly right ;-)
And I've been a network technician !!!

I've modified the address, thank you for testing 

Regards

Salvatore



From sina.818 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 10:01:01 2005
From: sina.818 at gmail.com (sina.818 at gmail.com)
Date: 3 Oct 2005 07:01:01 -0700
Subject: You Can FIND any thing u want
Message-ID: <1128345269.878419.33230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Hi
This website can help you to find any links you want:
http://www.lxlinks.cjb.net
Enjoy



From xiaoning_zhang at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 31 23:46:10 2005
From: xiaoning_zhang at hotmail.com (zhang xiaoning)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:46:10 +0800
Subject: how to import extension module from embedding application on aix5
Message-ID: <BAY113-F3753BB8E5F4D7FA6B3590FB6F0@phx.gbl>

Hi,

I download and extract python-2.4.2 source code for unix, and then, build 
and install it on aix5, the configure option I used is:
./configure --enable-shared --disable-ipv6 --prefix=/usr/python
then, I run:
make
and
make install

because I want to embed python in other language, so I continue run:
make libpython2.4.so
then,run make install again.

after works above, I start python, try:
>import time
>print time.localtime()
every thing is okay.

and then, I try a simple example: import.c
#include <Python.h>
int
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
  Py_Initialize();
  PyRun_SimpleString("import time\n"
                     "print time.localtime()\n");
  Py_Finalize();
  return 0;
}

the Makefile is like:
cc_r  -c -I. -o ./import.o import.c $(PYINC).
cc_r -o ./importApp ./import.o -brtl $(LIBPATH) -lpython2.4
where PYINC and LIBPATH are correct.

I got the importApp, I try to run it:
./importApp
I got an error message: 
ImportError: Exec format error

I test most of extension module which is in 
<python_home>/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload, such as math, parser, I got the 
same error.

It seems due to try to import extension module from embedding application. 
Any thing wrong I did when I configure and make install python? 

Thank you!

Xiaoning




From lycka at carmen.se  Tue Oct  4 08:18:33 2005
From: lycka at carmen.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:18:33 +0200
Subject: what does 0 mean in MyApp(0)
In-Reply-To: <1128102240.452942.180890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
References: <1128089733.684329.101320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
	<dhjiih$kvc$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<1128102240.452942.180890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dhtrup$rag$1@wake.carmen.se>

Alex wrote:

> Alterbnative 2 is simple and useful, so that's why everybody use that
> alternative.

Everybody doesn't... Particularly in Windows, it's common that
people make a .pyw-file, and then you don't see any console,
or otherwise they double-click on a .py-file, and if the app
dies with an error, they'll never get a chance to read the
traceback (unless they have a horribly slow computer). Even
worse, it they use command.com as their shell (default on
MS DOS derivates such as Windows ME) copying text from the
shell doesn't work very well, even if the shell didn't close.

Getting all printouts, tracebacks etc into a file is very
convenient during development. In a decent development
environment, you're likely to have a window open where you
do "tail -f" on the file.

Even in production, it's a good thing if it's at least possible
to enable output to a debug file. I've had that as a command
line switch, and asked users to turn that on and mail me the
resulting log file as they reproduced a buggy behaviour.


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Oct 17 13:28:47 2005
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:28:47 GMT
Subject: newbie  regex
In-Reply-To: <RWQ4f.280$A21.55151@newshog.newsread.com>
References: <1129565047.255804.266190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<RWQ4f.280$A21.55151@newshog.newsread.com>
Message-ID: <jbR4f.281$A21.55299@newshog.newsread.com>

Leif K-Brooks wrote:
> csselo at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>>I want to filter some strings,but i don t know how to use compile
>>method.
> 
> Why not?


Sorry: I misread that as not _wanting_ to use the compile method.


From ms at cerenity.org  Sat Oct  8 09:08:40 2005
From: ms at cerenity.org (Michael)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:08:40 +0100
Subject: Continuous system simulation in Python
References: <20051007011222.1aeab426@linuxcestcomplique.fr>
Message-ID: <4347c49d$0$15036$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Nicolas Pernetty wrote:

> I'm looking for any work/paper/ressource about continuous system
> simulation using Python or any similar object oriented languages (or
> even UML theory !).
> 
> I'm aware of SimPy for discrete event simulation, but I haven't found
> any work about continuous system.
> I would like to develop a generic continous system simulator, and so
> would be eager to join any open source effort on the subject.

There was going to be a talk on continuous system simulation (*) at
EuroPython this year, but for some reason it didn't appear to happen (It
was one of the talks I was hoping to see). I've no real idea of the content
of the talk or the work involved though for obvious reasons. Maybe that can
provide a lead?
   (*) http://www.python-in-business.org/ep2005/alisttrack.chtml?track=646
       "Implementing Continuous Time Simulation Systems in Python, Paul J
       Nolan"

Another lead //might// actually be to ask on the pygame list (MAYBE). It's
not directly the same thing, but essentially lots of games are in many
respects a form of continuous systems simulation, and someone on that
list might be able to point you in a good direction.

One book I bought a while back (looked interesting) which might be relevant
for you is O'Reilly's "physics for game developers", and and another is "AI
for games programmer"(*) since they both touch on these areas. If you have
a Safari account already that could be an easy way of checking to see
whether the book covers the sorts of answers you're after. (They don't use
python as their example language, but that's a minor problem really IMO)

(*) This is less obviously relevant, but deals with things deciding to move
    themselves around continuous spaces and visualised at indeterminate
    frame or display rates.

Best Regards,


Michael.


From google at shawndyer.com  Mon Oct 17 12:43:24 2005
From: google at shawndyer.com (shawn)
Date: 17 Oct 2005 09:43:24 -0700
Subject: subtyping a builtin type in a C extension
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2149.1129538147.509.python-list@python.org>
References: <1129522775.678995.80090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2149.1129538147.509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1129567404.421734.223940@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Thank you. I should have looked for this sort of example. That was
exactly what I needed.

I don't ask for help here very often, but when I have, I have ALWAYS
gotten faster results than with any commercial support option I have
used. We have a good developer community :-)



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 21 03:21:05 2005
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:21:05 +0100
Subject: classmethods, class variables and subclassing
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Message-ID: <dja4ss$m2i$2@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>>Andrew Jaffe wrote:
[...]
> 
> The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the 
> class itself, before I've made any instances.
> 
Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
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