Like Christ PBBUH Prayed

Mon May 16 17:18:43 EDT 2005

THE POSTER vs. CHRIST
=====================

For those who follow this frequently re-appearing
thread, and the various responses to it, I wish to
remind them of the following:

1. There is a detailed response to the claims of
the poster here:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web/browse_thread/thread/526d20b74c0c5389/4416e29e5d258dd6?q=%22Ron+Grossi:+God+is+not+a+man%22&rnum=1#4416e29e5d258dd6
or as a tinyurl:
http://tinyurl.com/dagan

2. The poster has yet to respond to the issues raised.

3. The poster seems to be preaching a doctrine
that is at odds with what Christ peace and
blessings be upon him (PBBUH) is reported to have
preached in the Gospels.

For one thing, the poster seems to claim that Christ
PBBUH was sent to all peoples, when in fact the
"no one" in the verse he relies on above is taken
out of the gospel's context. The "no one" cannot be
understood as "all people" as this would conflict
with Christ PBBUH explicit and clear words in
Matthew:

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(Matthew 15: 24)

And so unless the poster wants to pursue and
preach a line that is in direct contradiction to
the explicit and clear preaching of Christ PBBUH,
then he too must accept that the "no one" of (John
14: 6) and the "whoever believes in him" of (John 3:
16, more on this verse and book later) actually
refer to those lost sheep of the house of
Israel only, and only do so in the span of time while
Christ's PBBUH walked this earth, not to the
people of the Gentiles and all the times past and
present.

Repeating the claim of the "no one" and the
"whoever", so as to claim that Christ PBBUH was
sent to all people past and present including
those of the Gentiles, from now until the end of
time will not help the cause of the poster. For as
long as (Matthew 15: 24) is still considered as
part of the Gospel then the poster's case is
defeated and he is shown to be preaching an Anti-
Christ doctrine. Remember that opinions cannot
replace scripture. And repetition cannot make
falsehood into truth, or vice versa.

Secondly, do note that the poster is relying now
on the the book of John, which Christian scholars
themselves tell us that not only is it
anonymous (imagine a court admitting anonymous
evidence as proof) but they also proclaim that the
book is actually adulterated scripture; and this
they do both in words[1] and deeds.[2]

LIKE CHRIST PBBUH PRAYED
========================

For those truth seekers reading this, perhaps it
is worth it to remind you that Christ PBBUH, whom
the poster seems to consider his "Lord", actually
prayed to Almighty God!

What is most amazing here is not only that the
poster is drumming for the worship of a "man"
(Acts 2: 22) and "the son of man" (Luke 9: 58),
when his own scripture proclaims that "God is not
a man ... neither the son of man" (Numbers 23:
19), but he is also calling for the taking as
"Lord" a man and a son of man who has prayed and
did so in the same manner taught to all the
prophets, including Muhammad peace and blessings
be upon them all.

* "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with
him, saying," (Genesis 17:3)

* "Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and
said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him
that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah,
that is ninety years old, bear?" (Genesis 17:17)

* "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward
the earth, and worshipped." (Exodus 34:8)

* "And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron,
saying, Separate yourselves from among this
congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.
And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God,
the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man
sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the
congregation?" (Numbers 16:20-22)

* "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of
the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his
face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto
him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?" (Joshua
5:14)

* "And it came to pass, while they were slaying
them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face,
and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou
destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring
out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?" (Ezekiel 9:8)

* "And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to
the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of
Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the
LORD." (2 Chronicles 20:18)

* "And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that
Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down
upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and
said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of
the remnant of Israel." (Ezekiel 11:13)

* "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on
their face, and were sore afraid." (Matthew
17:6)

* "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on
his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it
be possible, let this cup pass from me:
nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
(Matthew 26:39)

IN THE NEWS
===========

Here is a quote from the Qur'an, which was part of
the news very recently, from Chapter/Sura "The
Prophets":

"And unto Solomon (We subdued) the wind in its
raging. It set by his command toward the land
which We had blessed. And of everything We are
Aware.

"And of the evil ones (subdued We unto him)
some who dived (for pearls) for him and did other
work, and We were warders unto them.

"And Job, when he cried unto his Lord, (saying):
Lo! adversity afflicteth me, and Thou art Most
Merciful of all who show mercy.

"Then We heard his prayer and removed that
adversity from which he suffered, and We gave him
his household (that he ad lost) and the like
thereof along with them, a mercy from Our store,
and a remembrance for the worshippers;

"And (mention) Ishmael, and Idris, and Dhu'l-Kifl.
All were of the steadfast.

"And We brought them in unto Our mercy. Lo! they
are among the righteous.

"And (mention) Dhu'n-Nun, when he went off in anger and
deemed that We had no power over him, but he cried
out in the darkness, saying: There is no Allah
save Thee. Be Thou Glorified! Lo! I have been a
wrong-doer.

"Then we heard his prayer and saved him from the
anguish. Thus we save believers.

"And Zachariah, when he cried unto his Lord: My Lord!
Leave me not childless, though Thou art the Best
of inheritors.

"Then We heard his prayer, and bestowed upon him
John, and adjusted his wife (to bear a child) for
him. Lo! they used to vie one with the other in
good deeds, and they cried unto Us in longing and
in fear, and were submissive unto Us.

"And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into
her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her
son a token for (all) peoples.

"Lo! this, your religion, is one religion, and I am
your Lord, so worship Me.

"And they have broken their religion (into
fragments) among them, (yet) all are returning unto Us.

"Then whoso doeth some good works and is a
believer, there will be no rejection of his
effort. Lo! We record (it) for him."
(Translation, Qur'an, 21: 81-94)

RESOURCES
=========

[1] Jackson, H. Latimer: "The Problem of the
Fourth Gospel", April 2005,
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/jackson/chapter1.html

[2] The word "begotten" is now absent from (John 3: 16) in almost
all new revised Bibles. See the Revised Standard Version for one.