anygui,anydb, any opinions?

[Thomas Bartkus]

"James Tanis" <jtanis at pycoder.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.43.1118073133.10512.python-list at python.org...
> Previously, on Jun 6, Thomas Bartkus said:
>
> # "bruno modulix" <onurb at xiludom.gro> wrote in message
> # news:42a3fc70$0$30762$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> # > You mean the "wimp gui builder + db -> ui pipeline" model ? If yes, C
> # > doesn't have it, C++ doesn't have it (in fact most languages doesn't
> # > have it) - and ....
> #
> #     > .... the fact is that C and C++ are usually considered as much
> #     > more "serious and professionnal" than VB and the likes.
> #
> # Yes but there is another fact that must be considered.
> # Systems like VB (and the likes) are much more *productive* .
> #
> # The secret of that particular success has nothing to do with the
language
> # and everything to do with the integrated GUI / IDE available to that
> # particular (VB) language.
>
> That's pretty arguable. C/C++ has no shortage of integrated GUI/IDE
> available especially if your willing to fork out the same kind of books
> that you would need to for VB.
>
> #
> # Anything that reduces the overhead involved in producing a
> # consistent/attractive/idiot proof  user interface makes a far more
> # productive environment.
> #
> # Thomas Bartkus
>
> My 2 cents, I'm much more productive with Python and QT Builder as I
> am with VB and those aren't nearly as intergrated as VB's GUI/IDE. A
> language's productivity, I believe, rests on how high or low-level the
> language and its libraries are. Not just that though, productivity is
> also very much affected by the breadth of the libraries available.

When scripting, Windows or Linux, I also am much more productive with
Python.
When automating a process for another human being, I am much more productive
with a RAD tool like VB.  The effort involved in creating the user front end
simply overwhelms  all the considerable efficiencies of Python.

When I code wxPython, I find I want to use VB to create/model my user
interface.  Once I prototype my Windows (Frames!) using VB, I can then xlate
this to wxPython code.  What I couldn't do without the VB IDE was visualize
and experiment with the impact of various layouts *before* I lay down code.
It is simply too onerous to experiment by code manipulation and too easy to
swish around visually with a mouse.

When I use a GUI designer like wxGlade, I still find it awkward enough to
merit prototyping with the VB IDE and then mimic the windows I create with
wxGlade.

> Sure, GUI RAD solutions increase development in a very real way, but you
> can find an offering for just about every language out there these days.

Yes.  But the tools available for Python are still primitive compared to RAD
tools like Delphi/Visual Studio.  I still don't know enough wxPython to
understand what the barriers are to creating a RAD visual design and
construction tool similar to the Visual Studio environment.
My ravings here are simply the result of a suspicion -

- The suspicion is that the only barrier is the Python (and Linux!)
communities grossly underestimating the value of such an undertaking.
Thomas Bartkus