How to actually write a program?

[Peter Hansen]

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Ahhh!!  Run!  Run, Neil, run!  UML!
...
>>Ahhh!!! Run away some more!  UML and XP are nearly anti-thetical.
> 
> UML and Agile/XP are typically used in organizations with very different
> philosophies and mindsets.  They're anything but antithetical
> _technically_, but, _culturally_, you're probably right...

I guess I won't (can't) disagree until I have an idea what
you mean in this case by "technically".  On the face of it,
I see little that isn't antithetical about them, technically
or otherwise.  Quick (and for the most part throw-away) drawings
on whiteboards would seem to be the preferred Agile/XP solution,
but maybe that's where you bring in "culturally"...

>>-rabidly-anti-UML-ically y'rs,
>>  Peter
> 
> I suspect your "anti-ness" comes from cultural and not technical factor.
> Basically, injecting some modeling into an Agile culture, just like the
> reverse, takes diplomatic talents which very few people possess...

Again, not sure how to tell the difference.  I was working in
a group where we were trying to make effective use of UML
before we ever encountered Agile... in fact, it was in part
due to those experiences that we embraced agility and XP...
And since we managed to get agility into a modeling culture,
I'll assume someone had the necessary talents.  I think the
problem lay elsewhere.

-Peter